1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 26 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 412       Contents: "IF", was: checksum  Re: 7.3 system disk corruption Re: 7.3 system disk corruption Re: 7.3 system disk corruptionP A new service tool that lets Digital's Service Customers talk to the Customer Su absolute beginner ( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate! Change account password using web  Re: checking some myths. Re: checking some myths. Re: checking some myths. Re: Compaq's Q2 financials' Re: Compaq's Q2 financials - EC figures 5 Converting DDIF  to Tif  or at least an intermediate. 9 Re: Converting DDIF  to Tif  or at least an intermediate. 3 Experience with the U2SCSI 3X-KCPCA-AA in DPWS500au 7 Re: Experience with the U2SCSI 3X-KCPCA-AA in DPWS500au  F$File using Online Keyword % FTP Listing without Version Number??? % FTP Listing without Version Number??? ) Re: FTP Listing without Version Number??? ) Re: FTP Listing without Version Number???  Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support $ How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords?( Re: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords?( Re: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords?( Re: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords?) Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS : Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)! ISSG down far, far more than BCSG % Re: ISSG down far, far more than BCSG P Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered   in VMSP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered  in VMS O Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mail P Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History),was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Ma* Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMS* Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMS Re: LPs on the Web Re: LPs on the Web Re: Migration from VMS% RE: Missing XDPS$DPSLIBSHR.EXE on 7.3 % RE: Missing XDPS$DPSLIBSHR.EXE on 7.3 % Re: Missing XDPS$DPSLIBSHR.EXE on 7.3 ? Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)  Perl DBI for VMS Re: Perl DBI for VMS Re: Perl DBI for VMS Re: Perl DBI for VMS< Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]@ RE: Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]@ RE: Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]$ Re: Selling VMS to another company ? Re: simple COPY question Re: simple COPY question8 suggested reading: "Making a Mountain Out of a Molehill"< Re: suggested reading: "Making a Mountain Out of a Molehill"< Re: suggested reading: "Making a Mountain Out of a Molehill"$ Suggestion for IPF standalone backup( Re: Suggestion for IPF standalone backup Sun goes after Alpha user base" Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base" Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base" Re: Sun goes after Alpha user baseA Two Vax 4000-60 with RRD40 + 2xVR219 plus owner manual free in UK E Re: Two Vax 4000-60 with RRD40 + 2xVR219 plus owner manual free in UK  Using pthread_t . Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problem. Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problem. Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problem% VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL EAST 1.0!!!  Re: VM: checking some myths. Re: VM: checking some myths. Re: VM: checking some myths. Re: VM: checking some myths. Re: VM: checking some myths. Re: VM: checking some myths. VMS Prompt value Re: VMS Prompt value Re: VS3100 & (dead?) ST51080N # Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do? # Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do? - Re: [DWMOTIF V1.2-6] VAX EURO patch missing ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:41:57 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> Subject: "IF", was: checksumJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107261130560.20495-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  * On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Didier Morandi wrote: [...] I >+I know there are some undocumented features, like the IF which does not -                         ********************* 3 >+change the $status value (...), that may be used,   8  Hm... I am not sure what you will say, comment please !   ? You are aware that the fact that exist a subset of DCL (all are : "internal", means SUPERVISOR mode) commands where will not: change $STATUS *when executes correctly* and the behaviour is definitely documented ?  8  Then you may be *sure*, that GOTO in IF will not change6 $STATUS and $SEVERITY - and check the values in "event# procedure" (with "ON ERROR...") -:)   8 >+ STANDARDS! It makes maintenance by others easier, no?    Yes !=  But that is not related to "IF preserve $STATUS" behaviour ! '  Do not flame my procedures, please -;)     Regards - Gotfryd   --  E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:00:39 +1000 - From: "Paul Nankervis" <paulnank@au1.ibm.com> ' Subject: Re: 7.3 system disk corruption / Message-ID: <9join5$3ae4$1@poknews.pok.ibm.com>   6 "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote in message  news:3b5ef7f5$1@pull.gecm.com...G > Configuration:   DS10 and DS20E, shared SCSI, RAIDarray 3000, OpenVMS E > 7.3 plus latest patches, DECnet-Plus, TCP/IP Services 5.1, Advanced G > Server 7.3 (as BDC), DECwindows Motif 1.2-6, FORTRAN, Pascal, C, C++,  > GKS, DCPS-(Open and Plus). > I > Has anyone experienced corruption of their OpenVMS 7.3 system disk?  We H > have successfully configured our system, but twice now I have left theG > system running overnight only to come in the next morning to find the B > system disk corrupted.  Many symptoms reported from ANALYZE/DISKH > including multiply allocated blocks, blocks marked free when used, andE > many others I can't remember and which ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR cleared.  >   I Is the disk in question mounted on both systems? If so do the systems see  eachG other as cluster members? (SHOW CLUSTER)   You tend to get this sort of > problem if two independant VMS systems access the same disk...   Paul Nankervis   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:42:04 +0200 2 From: "Ren? Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>' Subject: Re: 7.3 system disk corruption G Message-ID: <3b5fe565$0$28924$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>   8 "Gabriel Sterk" <gabi@aipm.co.il> schrieb im Newsbeitrag, news:000701c11593$0eed67e0$2c46bf10@manai...= > Besides looking for hardware errors, as others pointed out, 6 > do you have any disk defragmenter running at night?? > 
 > Regards, > Gabriel Sterk  >  >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Main, Kerry [mailto:Kerry.Main@compaq.com]+ > > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:49 PM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + > > Subject: RE: 7.3 system disk corruption  > >  > >  > > Tim, > > H > > As Robert just pointed out - are there any HW errors reported in the > > errorlog ? > > @ > > Reason for asking is that I have a few internal VMS V7.3 lab > > servers that I7 > > have installed with no issues like this. I just ran  > > $ana/disk/repair on one 6 > > that has been up for approx 3 weeks and it ran ok. > > 7 > > Also, these folks have been running OpenVMS V7.3 in  > > production for some time< > > (albeit in a different HW config) and, to the best of my > > knowledge, never" > > had the issues you mentioned -A > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/Bank-Austria/  > >  > > Regards, > >  > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultant  > > Compaq Canada Inc. > > Professional Services  > > Voice: 613-592-4660  > > Fax  :  819-772-7036  > > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com > >  > >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Tim Jackson [mailto:tim.jackson@amsjv.com]  > > Sent: July 25, 2001 12:56 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > > Subject: 7.3 system disk corruption  > >  > > I > > Configuration:   DS10 and DS20E, shared SCSI, RAIDarray 3000, OpenVMS G > > 7.3 plus latest patches, DECnet-Plus, TCP/IP Services 5.1, Advanced I > > Server 7.3 (as BDC), DECwindows Motif 1.2-6, FORTRAN, Pascal, C, C++,  > > GKS, DCPS-(Open and Plus). > > A > > Has anyone experienced corruption of their OpenVMS 7.3 system 
 > > disk?  We J > > have successfully configured our system, but twice now I have left theI > > system running overnight only to come in the next morning to find the D > > system disk corrupted.  Many symptoms reported from ANALYZE/DISKJ > > including multiply allocated blocks, blocks marked free when used, andG > > many others I can't remember and which ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR cleared.  > >  > > TIA H > > ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------H > > Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com > > Air Systems Group  > > Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.  > >      Good question!J I had this kind of problem when I ran a not-so-recent Version of diskeeper0 (7.1 instead of 7.2) after an upgrade to VMS 7.3   regards    Ren? Schelbaum Datakom Austria GesmbH   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:50:16 +0100 + From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> ' Subject: Re: 7.3 system disk corruption & Message-ID: <3b5ff3b0$1@pull.gecm.com>  ? Also installed are:-  Availability Manager and WEBES (Web Based  Enterprise Services).    HTH and TIA D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Group  Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.   6 "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote in message  news:3b5ef7f5$1@pull.gecm.com...G > Configuration:   DS10 and DS20E, shared SCSI, RAIDarray 3000, OpenVMS E > 7.3 plus latest patches, DECnet-Plus, TCP/IP Services 5.1, Advanced G > Server 7.3 (as BDC), DECwindows Motif 1.2-6, FORTRAN, Pascal, C, C++,  > GKS, DCPS-(Open and Plus). > E > Has anyone experienced corruption of their OpenVMS 7.3 system disk?  WeH > have successfully configured our system, but twice now I have left theG > system running overnight only to come in the next morning to find the B > system disk corrupted.  Many symptoms reported from ANALYZE/DISKH > including multiply allocated blocks, blocks marked free when used, andE > many others I can't remember and which ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR cleared.  >  > TIA F > ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------F > Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com > Air Systems Group  > Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 07:53:14 -0700$ From: svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth)Y Subject: A new service tool that lets Digital's Service Customers talk to the Customer Su = Message-ID: <5a85bce2.0107260653.15be936b@posting.google.com>    All:  B I was doing a little house-cleaning at work today and found a cuteC little cardboard flyer from Digital that talks about a new piece of 2 "software that lets your computer do the talking."  D According to the flyer, this new software lets you contact Digital'sD Customer Support Center for help with a system or software problem. E Supposedly, there's  "computer-to-computer communication between your D site and Digital".  (How on earth do you get two *computers* to talk to each other?)   C Best of all, this new software is free.  I just need to return this ? nifty little card by March 20, 1990.  Hmmmmm... Should I choose  Magtape or TK50? :^)  A I'm going to have to save this little beauty for my personal "old  computer stuff" museaum.  
 -Scott :^)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:36:56 +0200 / From: "Luca Balzano" <luca.balzano@antispam.it>  Subject: absolute beginner( Message-ID: <9jodg4$1463$1@half.spin.it>   Hi all,   I it is a lot that I want to put my hands on a Vax machine, last week I had K the opportunity to get a vaxstation 3100 for a very cheap price and now I'm F trying to understand how to get an hobbyist (cheap) release/license ofG OpenVMS. Somebody told me that since I live in Italy this could be more 
 difficult.   anyone can help?  	 thank you    Luca  * antispam: my addr is balzano(at)iol(dot)it   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:16:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate , Message-ID: <3B60507B.98BB9F00@videotron.ca>   J Ahlstrom wrote: ? > or their intentions to put their money where it woule produce @ > the most return.  Which, I believe, Compaq as a non-non-profit$ > company is required by law to do.     M I am not sure that a company is required by law to generate profits. Airlines N would all be in prison if that were the case, so would Nortel, Lucent, Compaq,+ and off course all dot.com shell companies.   I Secondly, while there is an expection of eventual profits, I beleive that K corporations are given a certain degree of latitude to build on a long term + profit at the expense of short term losses.   N Consider that Compaq seems to be a acting as a joint venture between Intel andK Microsoft. It is in the interest of all parties that Compaq would aim to be L the "premier" NT solutions company in the long term, and I think that CompaqG is the only wintel company that is currently capable of doing so with a G worldwide service organisation and now also focusing on building/buying % software/solutions/support companies.   J While NT may not currently yield the same amount of margins that cash cowsL such as VMS do, it has a far greater market potential, far greater marketingL budget (both from Microsoft and Intel and from Compaq) and more importantly,M Microsoft is intent on shoving that software down the throaths of every large J corporation. Microsoft's now confirmed and tolerated monopoly status meansH that the odds of Microsoft eventually succeeding is pushing NT into true% enterprise solutions are pretty good.   K So, what is a company such as Compaq to do ? Simple: keep the cash cows for C now, but build your corporation so that it can reap the benefits of E Microsoft's entry into enterprise market. As long as they control the K attrition rate of VMS customers, they'll be OK. This is where Palmer failed E because he tried to convince customers to migrate away from VMS ASAP.   K The "Compaq as an enterprise company" TV ads of last year focused on wintel N solutions for enterprise. One of the top guys at Compaq (Winkler) is on recordK as stating that NT would rule the enterprise. And the dumping of Alpha is a L good example of Compaq exchanging non-core assets for assets which will help Compaq acheive its goals.   K I beleive that the shareholders don't really know VMS exists, nor Tru64, so J they don't care if Compaq doesn't market them. And they probably applaudedJ Compaq's dumping of Alpha since it allows Compaq to focus on its business.M Remember that Compaq shareholders think of Compaq as a wintel manufacturer so L anything that Compaq does that isn't wintel related is ssen as a distraction and thus not good.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:27:18 -0400 ( From: "Thomas Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>* Subject: Change account password using web/ Message-ID: <tm0hackrov06c3@corp.supernews.com>   H We have Alpha OpenVMS 7.2-1 running Multinet 4.3 and the OSU web server.K Does anyone have a secure way to change an OpenVMS account password using atH web page that is on another server?  We need a way to have the other webL server send a packet of account information so the OpenVMS system can change
 the password.y   Thanks,h Tom Steuvery Northern Kentucky University   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:16:23 GMT . From: "Stephen Fuld" <s.fuld@worldnet.att.net>! Subject: Re: checking some myths.eF Message-ID: <btP77.7402$LP2.735323@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  < "Peter Hancock" <peter@premise.demon.co.uk> wrote in message- news:oqae1uycow.fsf_-_@premise.demon.co.uk... 8 > Since there are people here who know a lot about theseB > things, can I take the opportunity to check a couple of possible > myths? >e? > 1. Nobody asked for VM. It was some kind of moonlight project > >    by a scientific computing group at IBM.  However IBM were+ >    smart enough to realise what they had.  >sB > 2. One of the main reasons that customers liked VM was that theyH >    could test-run new or trial versions of buggy systems alongside theJ >    current versions.  So the attraction was in large part one of dealing >    with software faults. >oA > Is it possible to say in a sentence or two, or point to a short F > high-level description of what kind of communication interface thereG > is/was between the virtual machines?  How do they look to each other?p >M      L Since there have been lots of answers to number 1 and to you last paragraph,L but none to number 2, I'll take a shot at it.  I am far from an expert here,= but AFAIK you nailed one of the reasons but there are others.s  C Some people run VM so thy can run lots of CMS users as it is a veryaE efficient way to support lots of interactive users in, for example, al university environment.s  L Some people run VM so they can take advantage of modern hardware to run manyJ copies of older more limited operating systems such as DOS/VSE which don'tL support as much memory, or as many users as more modern hardware does.  ThisL is exactly the mechanism that people will use to run even hundreds of copies- of Linux on a S/390 (or its new name) system.f  I Many independent software vendors run it to allow them to support severalnB versions of several different operating systems in order to assure0 compatibility pre ship and for bug reproduction.       --     -  Stephen Fulda   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:51:29 GMT + From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>e! Subject: Re: checking some myths.R) Message-ID: <uy9pcb0bb.fsf@earthlink.net>   0 "Stephen Fuld" <s.fuld@worldnet.att.net> writes: > N > Since there have been lots of answers to number 1 and to you last paragraph,N > but none to number 2, I'll take a shot at it.  I am far from an expert here,? > but AFAIK you nailed one of the reasons but there are others.e > E > Some people run VM so thy can run lots of CMS users as it is a veryeG > efficient way to support lots of interactive users in, for example, ao > university environment.p > N > Some people run VM so they can take advantage of modern hardware to run manyL > copies of older more limited operating systems such as DOS/VSE which don'tN > support as much memory, or as many users as more modern hardware does.  ThisN > is exactly the mechanism that people will use to run even hundreds of copies/ > of Linux on a S/390 (or its new name) system.u > K > Many independent software vendors run it to allow them to support severallD > versions of several different operating systems in order to assure2 > compatibility pre ship and for bug reproduction.  F one of the things that happened in VM was that since you could operateE the environment "with" and "with/out" the kernel, there was increasedwE emphasis on kernel efficiency and performance i.e. standard operating C systems tend to claim that the kernel pathlength is what it is, andMA maybe we can tweak it a little ... but there was significant more 4 pressure on the VM kernel to keep in lean and mean.   C The other characteristic was that it was much more of a microkernel C with clean division represented by the virtual machine "line". As as? result, it was frequently much easier taks to follow a completeM< control flow from end-to-end and optimize it (because of the? simplicity, something that is frequently much more difficult in ? kernels that have less clearly defined separation of function).-  B While it was obvious that a straight forward deployment of another> operating system in a VM virtual machine ... resulted in deltaD performance decrease because of the additional VM kernel pathlength,B there was numerous instances where the configuration operations ofE another virtual machine could be selected in such away that it traded @ off internal management/function for relying on the VM kernel to; provide that management/function. Sometimes the performance(C improvement was so significant, that no only did it offset other VMo; kernel introduced overhead ... but actually saw significants= performance thruput over running the operating system w/o VM.a  A The other characteristic was that the CMS interactive environmentb? (which made significant leverage of such trade-offs) would showtB significantly better interactive performance compared to other IBM "interactive" offerings.  : one of these were the famous CERN MVS/TSO VM/CMS benchmark& http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#28) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#61T) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#49u  ; I was fortunate enuf to participate in some of the activity=) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#45=) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#62H1 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#wsclockS3 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshareb   --  H Anne & Lynn Wheeler   | lynn@garlic.com -  http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:05:36 GMT + From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> ! Subject: Re: checking some myths.u) Message-ID: <upuaoazos.fsf@earthlink.net>p  - Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:c  H > one of the things that happened in VM was that since you could operateG > the environment "with" and "with/out" the kernel, there was increasedaG > emphasis on kernel efficiency and performance i.e. standard operating,E > systems tend to claim that the kernel pathlength is what it is, andnC > maybe we can tweak it a little ... but there was significant more36 > pressure on the VM kernel to keep in lean and mean.   B simple example is between the time that CP/67 was installed at theC university in jan, 1968 where I was an undergraduate and the time IaB made presentation at the August '68 SHARE meeting in Boston, I had@ reduced many CP/67 pathlengths by a factor of ten to one hundred9 times. the following is from that '68 share presentation.s  F The original CP/67 kernel CPU consumption to execute the referenced OSF MFT14 virtual machine was 856-322 or 534 cpu seconds. By August, I hadD rewritten several portions of the kernel and reduced the total CP/67C kernel CPU consumption to 435-322 or 113 cpu seconds for an overall A reduction of a factor of five times (I had also replaced the paget> replacement algorithm with a clock-like algorithm, implementedC original fair share scheduling, and done misc. other improvements).i    6                      OS Performance Studies With CP/67  I OS              MFT 14, OS nucleus with 100 entry trace table, 105 recordaM                 in-core job queue, default IBM in-core modules, nucleus total -                 size 82k, job scheduler 100k.-  7 HASP            118k Hasp with 1/3 2314 track bufferingr  ! Job Stream      25 FORTG compilesa  4 Bare machine    Time to run: 322 sec. (12.9 sec/job)G    times        Time to run just JCL for above: 292 sec. (11.7 sec/job)   4 Orig. CP/67     Time to run: 856 sec. (34.2 sec/job)G    times        Time to run just JCL for above: 787 sec. (31.5 sec/job)   -                 Ratio   CP/67 to bare machineh  *                 2.65    Run FORTG compiles'                 2.7     to run just JCL 0                 2.2     Total time less JCL time  < 1 user, OS on with all of core available less CP/67 program.  G Note:   No jobs run with the original CP/67 had ratio times higher thanfO         the job scheduler. For example, the same 25 jobs were run under WATFOR,dN         where they were compiled and executed. Bare machine time was 20 secs.,K         CP/67 time was 44 sec. or a ratio of 2.2. Subtracting 11.7 sec. fornJ         bare machine time and 31.5 for CP/67 time, a ratio for WATFOR less#         job scheduler time was 1.5.c  ?         I hand built the OS MFT system with careful ordering ofoI         cards in the stage-two sysgen to optimize placement of data sets, 4         and members in SYS1.LINKLIB and SYS1.SVCLIB.  *                             MODIFIED CP/67  C OS run with one other user. The other user was not active, was justsC available to control amount of core used by OS. The following table3C gives core available to OS, execution time and execution time ratio, for the 25 FORTG compiles.  3 CORE (pages)    OS with Hasp            OS w/o HASPS   104             1.35 (435 sec)  94             1.37 (445 sec)6  74             1.38 (450 sec)          1.49 (480 sec)6  64             1.89 (610 sec)          1.49 (480 sec)6  54             2.32 (750 sec)          1.81 (585 sec)6  44             4.53 (1450 sec)         1.96 (630 sec)   -- kH Anne & Lynn Wheeler   | lynn@garlic.com -  http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:19:53 +0200 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch># Subject: Re: Compaq's Q2 financials * Message-ID: <3B605138.2340F42A@dplanet.ch>  ' Something else about the Q2 results ...e  H Access (ie. PC's) lost $155 million in 3 months.  It might be about $1.7G million per day over the 90 days but losses in this segment are nothing 6 new.  So far for the year they have lost $237 million.  H Now Compaq's half year losses are $287 million, or only $50 million moreA than the PC group and what's more that $287 million loss includes:A "restructuring" charges of $742 million.  If we could dump the PC>E division, Compaq should be in a better financial position.  Save justn= one tenth of the restructuring money and they'd be in profit.    If only it was that easy.-  H The catch is of course that laying off the entire PC division would costF an absolute fortune in retrenchments, broken contracts with suppliers,C buildings no longer required etc, etc, etc.  The total losses would.4 probably be far greater than what we are seeing now.   It looks like ...nF Compaq's PC division - can't afford to live with them, can't afford to live without them !s     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:44:22 +0200 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>0 Subject: Re: Compaq's Q2 financials - EC figures* Message-ID: <3B6056F6.C7B2C612@dplanet.ch>   JF Mezei wrote:t >  >i  .. snip ...  L > > Enterprise Computing was way down from last year - at $74 million incomeH > > compared to $383 million - and for the 6 months it has returned $206/ > > million compared to $645 million last year.  > N > Yep, that was a big drop in enterprise computing. But no information on whatK > portion of enterprise computing is down. There was a tidbit about storage K > doing well and Compaq having eben named by Gartner Dataquest the first inn > enterprise storage solutions.  >    > H > > 2.  It would be very interesting to see the breakdown for Enterprise@ > > Computing.  How are sales of Alpha-based platforms holding ? > J > The fact that they don't want to breakdown the enterprise division is anM > indication that they want to retain the freedom to make strategic decisionsnA > which may not appear to be economically good in the short term.i > F > > Tru64 area ?  Are the ProLiants servers - now classified as EC - a > > handicap to the sector ? > N > I suspect that Proliant servers represent the largest chunk of units shippedM > and revenu for enterprise. They may have poor margins, but if they make 10%pS > profit and sell 100 times more than alphas, they may still generate more profits.o  E Working from the prepared statements on Compaq's investor informationrF pages we find that Enterprise Computing revenue was $2.7 billion, down 21 percent year over year. ...  B "Within the Enterprise Computing segment, Industry Standard Server$ revenue was $1.6 billion, a decrease of 26 percent year over year."  H Now do the calculations ... EC Revenue for Q2 last year is $3.42 billionF and at that time IIS was $2.16 billion.  By my calculations this meansH $1.26 billion for the products which are not ISS (which must include VMS* on Alpha and Himalaya) in Q2 of last year.  F Turning to this year's Q2 figures and it is clear that $1.1 billion ofH EC comes from products other than ISS.  With me still ?  The interestingF part is that a fall from last year's $1.26 billion to this year's $1.1! billion is a fall of about 12.5%.n  H With VMS on Alpha (and other non-ISS products) falling less than half ofG ISS in percentage terms, this again shows where the real value-products  are to be found.    
 Jon McLean   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:32:50 -0400-# From: Mark Vance <mvance@iglou.com> > Subject: Converting DDIF  to Tif  or at least an intermediate.( Message-ID: <3B5FB992.6000501@iglou.com>  I Anyone know of software that can convert DDIF format directly to TIFF or tH   at least to an intermediate format.  I have to get at some DDIF files F stored on optical, and try to get em converted to TIFF, lest i get my . butt chewed out for talking so good about VMS.J 		Whether the software runs on OpenVMS, Windows, or Linux, wouldnt matter I too much.  I'll owe ya'll many drinks , if you can help me!  Thanks Tons!d   Mark.d ("Still hangin with my VAXes")   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:24:52 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.B Subject: Re: Converting DDIF  to Tif  or at least an intermediate., Message-ID: <3B605262.376381FD@videotron.ca>   Mark Vance wrote:a > J > Anyone know of software that can convert DDIF format directly to TIFF or( >   at least to an intermediate format.   S If your files are images stored in DDIF format, the CDA converters will do the job.m  @ CONVERT/DOCUMENT myfile.ddif/format=ddif myfile.tiff/format=tiff  M If your files are truly coumpound documents of various contents (text, imagest etc), then i  D CONVERT/DOCUMENT myfile.ddif/format=ddif myfile.ps/format=postscript  I and then use GHOSTSCRIPT to convert the postscript file to TIFF (or PDF)..   ------------------------------  / Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:14:07 +0200 (MET DST)o& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>< Subject: Experience with the U2SCSI 3X-KCPCA-AA in DPWS500au6 Message-ID: <200107260614.IAA16992@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  G I tried to use a 3X-KCPCA-AA in a DPWS500au. When we installed the HostiH Adapter, the console firmware of the DPWS500au was 5.3. After poerup theG Alpha BIOS image is displayed and the selftest was running. Boot OS was F NT. At first I changed this to OpenVMS and restarted the system with aE power cycle. But in the console mode I did not see the controller andwK the attached disk. So I installed the newest firmware (V5.8) with the hope,oI that it would be a firmware problem. And, I was right. After the firmwareAG installation Host Adapter and diskdrive was present. Also they did workw well under OpenVMS 7.1-2.i   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 09:08:25 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)@ Subject: Re: Experience with the U2SCSI 3X-KCPCA-AA in DPWS500au= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0107260808.46fe84fc@posting.google.com>p  d Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message news:<200107260614.IAA16992@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>... > Hello, > 2 > I tried to use a 3X-KCPCA-AA in a DPWS500au. ...; > ... I installed the newest firmware (V5.8) with the hope,0K > that it would be a firmware problem. And, I was right. After the firmwaredI > installation Host Adapter and diskdrive was present. Also they did workh > well under OpenVMS 7.1-2.n >  > Regards Rudolf Wingert   Rudolf,nD      thanks for passing that information along.  Good to know I have" that card as an option for my PWS.   Rich Jordan    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:17:15 -0400V$ From: Donald Plugge <plugge@usa.net>$ Subject: F$File using Online Keyword' Message-ID: <3B605090.EDDDE32D@usa.net>-  A Is it a known bug that my OpenVMS 7.2-1 help file indicates that "F the lexical F$FILE can use the keyword ONLINE in the second parameter,? however I get an unrecogized keyword error when I impliment it.   9 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$FILE("SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM","ONLINE")   & %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword...   Don    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:15:42 +0200e* From: andaro <christof.mueller@andaro.com>. Subject: FTP Listing without Version Number???8 Message-ID: <MPG.15ca36663592a201989684@News.CIS.DFN.DE>   Hello,  D  is it possible to do a FTP Listing on VMS without having all those + version numbers attached to the file names?u   Thanks Chrisw   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:18:02 +0200o* From: andaro <christof.mueller@andaro.com>. Subject: FTP Listing without Version Number???8 Message-ID: <MPG.15ca36f475801ebe989685@News.CIS.DFN.DE>   Hello,  D  is it possible to do a FTP Listing on VMS without having all those + version numbers attached to the file names?t   Thanks Chrise   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:43:22 -0600o$ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca>2 Subject: Re: FTP Listing without Version Number???) Message-ID: <3B601E79.13B4DC25@cha.ab.ca>F  . $ dir my.file /size/date/select=file=noversion  
 andaro wrote:o   > Hello, >hE >  is it possible to do a FTP Listing on VMS without having all thosel- > version numbers attached to the file names?n >r > Thanks > Chris    -- Leel  ; Lee Y T Mah                        Capital Health Authoritya? Email: lytmah@cha.ab.ca            Information Systems, RAH CSCE4 Phone:  (780) 477-4725, 477-4233   10240 Kingsway NW? Fax:      (780) 491-5119, 491-5619    Edmonton, AB, CAN  T5H3V9a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:52:11 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r2 Subject: Re: FTP Listing without Version Number???, Message-ID: <3B6058C6.2B03600E@videotron.ca>  
 andaro wrote:uE >  is it possible to do a FTP Listing on VMS without having all thoseS- > version numbers attached to the file names?   # If you have the TCPIP Services 5.x:   % $DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$FTP_NO_VERSION 1m  M Note that the listings will not include the version numbers, which means that L when you try to delete a file from the FTP client, since the FTP client willL not provide a version number back to the VMS host, the delete will fail. ButK the rest will work fine and you won't see version numbers of your files and " only see one version of each file.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:27:59 -0400i/ From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@gsfc.nasa.gov>i( Subject: Re: Future of Alpha/VMS support? Message-ID: <gurman-02FBDB.11275926072001@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>    In article d= <y466cisenx.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,iC  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> a  wrote:e  7 > malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) writes:c > 9 > > Economics are a different issue.  Frequently an exactf; > > replacement part is more costly than a newer and betterp > > equivalent.e > N > When NASA was given the money to replace Challenger, Rockwell offered them aM > copy of the current shuttles for $2B, or two copies of an upgraded shuttle.t > - > NASA took the former, now called Endeavour.h  H Please disregard my return address --- I'm not speaking for my employer  (and never have).e  H If any vendor tells NASA they can build 2 of anything brand new for any E fixed price, they are either lying thjrough their teeth or suffering aI from delusions of uniqueness --- NASA Is in the business of building new oI things, and every new thing ends up costing more (sometimes way more, if tG lots of changes are required after design and construction have begun) yG than originally intended. Imagine the (total, amortized) cost of a VAX  ? 11/780 or a DEC 3000/400 if Digital had only built two of them.m  H Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:  H > But the various shuttles are not at all identical in the details.  ForA > example, one of them (the oldest one?) has sufficiently smalleroE > payload/altitude limits that it can't do certain missions.  NASA ise& > considering putting it in mothballs.  C Actually, Columbia is unique in other ways, too, and its potential iA mothballing is liable to reduce significantly the number/size of nE free-flying, scientific satellites the Shuttle can launch in the ISS g2 construction phases. Or retrieve, for that matter.   Sorry to be so OT,                     Joe Gurman   -- tC | Joseph B. Gurman, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Solar Physics.> | Branch, Greenbelt MD 20771 USA / Federal employees are still@ | prohibited from holding opinions while at work. Therefore, any1 | opinions expressed herein are  somebody else's.n   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 09:20:28 +02008 From: holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)- Subject: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords?C! Message-ID: <QlHkfAL+qtLD@ludens>/   Hi all!.  8   Maybe a "tipical user question": how can I decnet-copy;   files, when I don't have decnet-proxy on the target node,t&   and have not one, but two passwords?     I've tried  '     $ copy nl: node"name pass1 pass2"::pL     %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening node"name password pass2"::[].; as output&     -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed@     -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node)     %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, NL:[].; not copied   '     $ copy nl: node"name pass1,pass2"::hF     %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening node"name password"::[].; as output&     -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed@     -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node)     %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, NL:[].; not copiedt  G   When I switch the account on the target node into "one password mode"n?   it works just fine (so it's not the fault of some login.com).s  >   Tried this on VMS 7.2, 7.3 VAX/Alpha -- everywhere the same.     Any ideas?   Regards:			<Holi>e  F PS: this problem is also present with FTP -- but I _think_ that that's     the FTP protocols problem    ------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:16:57 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>1 Subject: Re: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords? J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107261114540.20495-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  / On 26 Jul 2001, Holi - Holitska Andr=E1s wrote:n  	 >+Hi all!t >+: >+  Maybe a "tipical user question": how can I decnet-copy= >+  files, when I don't have decnet-proxy on the target node,F( >+  and have not one, but two passwords?  1 AFAI*R* this is dissalowed "by design", no way...s  Any correction welcome ! -:)t    Regards - Gotfryd   --=20iL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=9 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DnF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - =09=09THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=3DME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=9 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:48:51 +0100.* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>1 Subject: Re: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords?P, Message-ID: <9jop26$1k6o@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  E "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote in message D news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0107261114540.20495-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl...  3 > AFAI*R* this is dissalowed "by design", no way...n > Any correction welcome ! -:)  $ Yes, the FM is fairly clear on this:@ http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6346/6346pro_015.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:56:27 +0200 = From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>F1 Subject: Re: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords?.4 Message-ID: <3B5FE94B.8CB831F@contrastmediagroep.nl>  " "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" wrote: > / > On 26 Jul 2001, Holi - Holitska Andrs wrote:5 >  > >+Hi all!a > >+< > >+  Maybe a "tipical user question": how can I decnet-copy? > >+  files, when I don't have decnet-proxy on the target node, * > >+  and have not one, but two passwords? > 3 > AFAI*R* this is dissalowed "by design", no way...I >  Any correction welcome ! -:)   F I think you are right. The only reason for having two passwords is theH requirement that it needs two people to access the account (each of them. knowing one). In this case this make no sense.  H Also the disadvantage of two passwords is that if someone tries to breakB in to the system, VMS will reveal the fact that the account exists+ because it prompts for the second password.7   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:03:10 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) 2 Subject: Re: IPF already needs a face-lift for VMS0 Message-ID: <009FF929.7E3E54A4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  u In article <M%M77.1290$nS1.152383@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes:5 >0M >"Jan Vorbrueggen" <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inlK >message news:y4u202qydt.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de... B >> system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: >g; >> > Or, double map the pages.  One mapping UR, another KW?  >>/ >> Quite acceptable. Page table space is cheap.a >hB >Is this allowed by the architecture?  And with what restrictions? >lK >Also, this makes for some interesting programming challenges.  I have codeiJ >that reads some performance counters that are UR with an option to "zero"H >them by doing a change mode kernel.  For the cell $FOO, what address is& >bound to the symbol table entry $FOO? >m >Can I write code that like & >    save_counters(){saved_foo=$FOO;}; >  >    zero_counters(){g >    save_counters();s >    $FOO_writeable=0; >    };nM >If the compiler inlines the save_counters and then reschedules the code, howr >weird does this get?t >lI >Since the page protection can be changed on the fly, this means that thelG >mapping needs to be different for all kernel mode pages not matter then >protection, doesn't it. >e, >Looks like that approach is an ugly kludge.   Yeap!- --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMu            mJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesw   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:11:29 GMTi. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS) D Message-ID: <lwO77.1448$nS1.180857@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B5FB27A.D3A0DBD6@videotron.ca...
 > mulp wrote:GI > I don't actually understand why/how the boot console of a machine would  need, > to understand a particular disk structure.  J For VAX and Alpha, the console knows a little about the Files-11 homeblockJ and reads it, (it is always logical block zero) and then looks for a fieldB that specifies the block to start reading and the transfer length.  L For PCs, the equivalent is, I guess, called the MBR, "Master boot record"??.  F The boot block is included in the ODS1/2/5 file structure.  The MBR isH outside the set of partitions on the device and is therefore outside the filestructure.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:14:22 -0400a5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>dC Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)s1 Message-ID: <lAV77.166$Yx2.3357@news.cpqcorp.net>q  L The EFI console is not restricted to boot from a specific device.  For blockK devices (disks) it looks for EFI partitions on all the devices, and you canm select from the ones it finds.  J EFI *requires* the boot partitions to be in a FAT32 (16 or 8 also I think). format.  This is where it finds the OS_LOADER.  H The boot block for VMS is LBN 0.  A "legacy" PC disk has a MBR at LBN 0.H This MBR contains partition information for up to 4 partitions.  The oneI flagged with an OS type of 0xEF is a EFI partition.  On a VMS volume, thenJ EFI (FAT32) partition would be fully contained in a contiguous file on theL volume.  The remainder of the disk would be a standard ODS2/5 volume (to theI EFI looking at the partitioning, there would be 2 "dummy" partitions thatl use an undefined OS type).  D VMS doesn't need to know *anything* about the FAT32 data on the diskE (contained in a contiguous file), but a utility to read/write it willrL probably be provided to allow easy updating of the firmware files from VMS -" instead of from the EFI utilities.  I No change is needed to the volume structure.  The boot block simply has a : different format, and the FAT32 file is just another file.   _Fredk   mulp wrote in message ...e >DA >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messagem* >news:x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net...K >> The EFI console would then find the MBR, and be able to locate the FAT32eJ >> firmware partition needed to boot VMS.  While on the VMS side, the disk3 >> would look just like any normal VMS system disk.  > 3 >Are you thinking that the only boot device is C: ?d > L >Or are you allowing for the possibility of booting from $1$DGA473: which isH >located in a SAN with a half dozen Alpha VMS systems mounting it?  When will> >Alpha VMS be updated to wrap ODS2/5 inside a FAT32 partition. >iL >Or is the Fiber Channel Array Controller going to present a FAT32 volume toJ >the Itanium node and the inner ODS2/5 container to the rest of the world? > G >It seems to me that if the boot disk has to have the appearance to thenI >console of FAT32, then all VMS flavors need to understand FAT32 volumes,lJ >even if the only support is to have single file which contains the ODS2/5 >file structure. >oI >And there is a lot of software that knows about Files-11 Home Blocks andrI >ODS2 file structure at some level: shadowing, backup, software raid, and  whoo* >knows what else developed outside of DEC. >-L >Of course, one solution would be to have a small disk that is FAT32 that is< >used to boot a small "IPB" which then does the right thing. >SH >If this "disk" were dedicated to booting just the IPB, then it wouldn't needH >to be very large.  It could even be a 16-32 meg flash card, say CompactK >Flash, SmartMedia, Memory Stick....  Upgrading the console could be easy -e; >just swap the card or mount it and do an image dump to it.w >rF >Is there any other disk format standard other than the DEC home block formatI >standard that works across multiple architectures and operating systems?l > J >Btw, why does Intel, whatever, define the boot partition to be FAT32?  AnL >"industry standard PC" console aka bios can boot from a partition no matterL >what format it is, based on information in the partition table???  Where isL >that format defined?  Or is that just some M$ ad hoc kludge that M$ doesn't- >document so that it can lockout competitors?  >m >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:29:02 -0400K5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>4C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)e1 Message-ID: <5OV77.169$Yx2.3341@news.cpqcorp.net>f  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3B5FB27A.D3A0DBD6@videotron.ca>...S >mulp wrote:H >I don't actually understand why/how the boot console of a machine would need+ >to understand a particular disk structure.e >r    H VMS does "boot block booting".  The EFI console for block (disk) devicesH does file based booting.  That is, it understands enough about FAT to beL able to locate it's partition, and find images it needs.  These images range) from EFI "applications" to the OS Loader.a    L >Is it correct to state that when the console powers up, it scans the bus toI >get a list of disk devices (and at which point, the SAN controller woulde+ >report it has , say, 5 drives available) ?i >      Yes.  E >And from that point on, the when the console is asked to boot from au device,yG >it requests a specify physical block from that device which is totalltd+ >transparent to the disk structure itself ?U >T    L No.  The console looks for a structure at the start of the disk to determineL if it is a "legacy" PC MBR, a new EFI defined partitioning record, or an ISO 9660 CD format.a  J >Once it has gotten the boot block, that block would contain code that can loadK >more stuff from the disk, at which point the computer would gain knowledges onC >how to access "files" on the disk drive based on the expected filer	 structuret >for that IS ? >     F Nope.  The EFI console knows that it will find an OS Loader in the EFI
 partition.   > I >As such, is it correct to state that the console need not understand ther file >structure of disk drives ?c >f    8 No.  It does, because EFI doesn't do boot block booting.   > 
 >QUESTION: >nJ >Will IPF only report device names such as A: B: C: D: E: etc ? Or will it beD >capable of using more intelligent device names that might include a
 controller >name as well as disk name ? >a    H I haven't seen the user interface yet to determine how it provides humanF readable device names.  Internally, there is a geographic device path.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:31:19 -0400i5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>rC Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS) 1 Message-ID: <fQV77.170$Yx2.3061@news.cpqcorp.net>u  L The MBR is efffectively the new VMS bootblock (block 0).  In this case we doG not need the information to find the primary bootstrap - since EFI will9K locate the bootstrap (OS loader) in the EFI partition by filename.  The EFI D partition is embedded in the ODS volume as a simple continuous file.     mulp wrote in message ...F; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in messageB' >news:3B5FB27A.D3A0DBD6@videotron.ca...  >> mulp wrote:J >> I don't actually understand why/how the boot console of a machine would >need - >> to understand a particular disk structure.c >5K >For VAX and Alpha, the console knows a little about the Files-11 homeblock K >and reads it, (it is always logical block zero) and then looks for a fieldfC >that specifies the block to start reading and the transfer length.s > B >For PCs, the equivalent is, I guess, called the MBR, "Master boot
 record"??. > G >The boot block is included in the ODS1/2/5 file structure.  The MBR is I >outside the set of partitions on the device and is therefore outside the7 >filestructure.  >s >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:32:52 -0700t! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>2C Subject: RE: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)o9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEOODAAA.tom@kednos.com><  J This sounds like MILO (MIny LOader) used under ARC to boot Linux.  Is that what you are using?E   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]' > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:29 AMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E > Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)e >  >m? > JF Mezei wrote in message <3B5FB27A.D3A0DBD6@videotron.ca>...p > >mulp wrote:J > >I don't actually understand why/how the boot console of a machine would > need- > >to understand a particular disk structure.a > >v >h >)J > VMS does "boot block booting".  The EFI console for block (disk) devicesJ > does file based booting.  That is, it understands enough about FAT to beA > able to locate it's partition, and find images it needs.  Theseg > images range+ > from EFI "applications" to the OS Loader.e >e >aC > >Is it correct to state that when the console powers up, it scansi > the bus toK > >get a list of disk devices (and at which point, the SAN controller would - > >report it has , say, 5 drives available) ?i > >o >  >m > Yes. >oG > >And from that point on, the when the console is asked to boot from au	 > device,uI > >it requests a specify physical block from that device which is totallt - > >transparent to the disk structure itself ?o > >a >a >lA > No.  The console looks for a structure at the start of the diskd > to determine< > if it is a "legacy" PC MBR, a new EFI defined partitioning > record, or an ISOl > 9660 CD format.l >lL > >Once it has gotten the boot block, that block would contain code that can > loadC > >more stuff from the disk, at which point the computer would gaino > knowledge. > onE > >how to access "files" on the disk drive based on the expected fileu > structured > >for that IS ? > >r >o > H > Nope.  The EFI console knows that it will find an OS Loader in the EFI > partition. >  > >nK > >As such, is it correct to state that the console need not understand them > file > >structure of disk drives ?- > >- >  >a: > No.  It does, because EFI doesn't do boot block booting. >  > >  > >QUESTION: > > L > >Will IPF only report device names such as A: B: C: D: E: etc ? Or will it > beF > >capable of using more intelligent device names that might include a > controller > >name as well as disk name ? > >e >o >tJ > I haven't seen the user interface yet to determine how it provides humanH > readable device names.  Internally, there is a geographic device path. >r >a >" >]   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 10:49:07 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)-C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)s3 Message-ID: <jQJBm8q2Cot1@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  i In article <lAV77.166$Yx2.3357@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:nN > The EFI console is not restricted to boot from a specific device.  For blockM > devices (disks) it looks for EFI partitions on all the devices, and you cani  > select from the ones it finds.  A That sounds like it could take a long time with a large number oft@ cluster disks.  I presume it cannot boot from CI, but presumably( it can from something like FibreChannel.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:01:23 -0400-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>mC Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)H1 Message-ID: <qgW77.171$Yx2.3417@news.cpqcorp.net>P  K It undoutedly has roots in the ARC console.  But it's all part of the Intel  "standard" EFI console.w     Tom Linden wrote in message ... K >This sounds like MILO (MIny LOader) used under ARC to boot Linux.  Is thatd >what you are using? >  >> -----Original Message-----u= >> From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]w( >> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:29 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >> Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS) >> >>@ >> JF Mezei wrote in message <3B5FB27A.D3A0DBD6@videotron.ca>... >> >mulp wrote:3K >> >I don't actually understand why/how the boot console of a machine wouldE >> needI. >> >to understand a particular disk structure. >> > >> >>K >> VMS does "boot block booting".  The EFI console for block (disk) devicesDK >> does file based booting.  That is, it understands enough about FAT to beDB >> able to locate it's partition, and find images it needs.  These >> images range3, >> from EFI "applications" to the OS Loader. >> >>D >> >Is it correct to state that when the console powers up, it scans
 >> the bus to.L >> >get a list of disk devices (and at which point, the SAN controller would. >> >report it has , say, 5 drives available) ? >> > >> >> >> Yes.p >>H >> >And from that point on, the when the console is asked to boot from a
 >> device,J >> >it requests a specify physical block from that device which is totallt. >> >transparent to the disk structure itself ? >> > >> >>B >> No.  The console looks for a structure at the start of the disk >> to determine-= >> if it is a "legacy" PC MBR, a new EFI defined partitionings >> record, or an ISO >> 9660 CD format. >>I >> >Once it has gotten the boot block, that block would contain code that3 can4 >> load@D >> >more stuff from the disk, at which point the computer would gain >> knowledge >> onHF >> >how to access "files" on the disk drive based on the expected file >> structure >> >for that IS ?o >> > >> >>I >> Nope.  The EFI console knows that it will find an OS Loader in the EFIo
 >> partition.s >> >> >L >> >As such, is it correct to state that the console need not understand the >> file  >> >structure of disk drives ? >> > >> >>; >> No.  It does, because EFI doesn't do boot block booting.e >> >> >
 >> >QUESTION:t >> >J >> >Will IPF only report device names such as A: B: C: D: E: etc ? Or will it >> beoG >> >capable of using more intelligent device names that might include ar
 >> controllert >> >name as well as disk name ?t >> > >> >>K >> I haven't seen the user interface yet to determine how it provides human I >> readable device names.  Internally, there is a geographic device path.n >> >> >> >> >X   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:03:19 -040095 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>2C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)n1 Message-ID: <eiW77.172$Yx2.3425@news.cpqcorp.net>"  I The same thought has crossed my mind.  But I have not yet seen the UI for4H the console, and don't know if there are ways to confine the devices theK console looks at for partitions.   Of course, just like the SRM, it will beaK looking to find all the devices anyway (regardless of doing a read of blockl 0 from them all).     $ Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ...D >In article <lAV77.166$Yx2.3357@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:iI >> The EFI console is not restricted to boot from a specific device.  For" block J >> devices (disks) it looks for EFI partitions on all the devices, and you can ! >> select from the ones it finds.I >iB >That sounds like it could take a long time with a large number ofA >cluster disks.  I presume it cannot boot from CI, but presumably ) >it can from something like FibreChannel._   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:21:41 -0400S- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>fC Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)e, Message-ID: <3B6051A3.D03C4719@videotron.ca>   mulp wrote:LH > The boot block is included in the ODS1/2/5 file structure.  The MBR isJ > outside the set of partitions on the device and is therefore outside the > filestructure.  L But to the console, if it read block 0 of a disk drive, it doesn't matter if6 that block is part of a file structure or not. Right ?  L The *contents* of the boot block would know the basics of the file system soH it can go fetch the first file in the boot sequence, but by the time theG *contents* of the boot lblock are executed, isn't that already past the7 jurisdiction of the console ?e  N Isn't the role of the console to fetch the boot block and execute its contents" making available some paremeters ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:21:47 +0100l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d* Subject: ISSG down far, far more than BCSG8 Message-ID: <4mc0mt4cgt26h093t6s6ne3p5b25rgiqlh@4ax.com>  C Just been listening to the Compaq financial analyst webcast. So fartD I've just scanned it but I think the figures given were ISSG (Intel)B sales down 26% compared to same quarter last year and BCSG (Alpha)D sales down 13% (mainly due to currency changes). Also stated was theA very low margins in ISSG. So Compaq's unprofitable (or barely so)oC Intel server business has plummeted 26% and highly profitable Alphaa> business has only dropped off 13%. Which one do you shut down?  ! Answers on a postcard to Compaq..:  D Hilariously Capellas refers to Itanium as Itanic at one point beforeE quickly correcting himself. Webcast now available at www.compaq.com. r -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:39:51 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>. Subject: Re: ISSG down far, far more than BCSG6 Message-ID: <HBY77.2$n_3.1531@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:4mc0mt4cgt26h093t6s6ne3p5b25rgiqlh@4ax.com... >a >BE > Just been listening to the Compaq financial analyst webcast. So farTF > I've just scanned it but I think the figures given were ISSG (Intel)D > sales down 26% compared to same quarter last year and BCSG (Alpha)F > sales down 13% (mainly due to currency changes). Also stated was theC > very low margins in ISSG. So Compaq's unprofitable (or barely so)bE > Intel server business has plummeted 26% and highly profitable Alpha @ > business has only dropped off 13%. Which one do you shut down? >i# > Answers on a postcard to Compaq..o  G Without access to Compaq's financial spreadsheets and a breakout of R&DrC expenses, it's a tough question to answer. I also noticed that iPAQgJ handhelds now account for 17 percent of unit shipments. Perhaps CPQ should dump everything but the iPAQ?   D Again, we are dealing with insufficient information to draw any real conclusions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:29:09 -0400p- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>dY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered   in VMSe4 Message-ID: <JrY77.271076$Z2.3278073@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  6 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <noone@home.com> wrote in message" news:3B604AD5.C2CC4381@home.com... > Peter Weaver wrote:e >s: > > You also have to set your baud rate down to appreciate > > some of them also. >  > 8 > OK. And how to do *that* with my telnet connection :-)    J Get some co-workers to setup a DOS attack on your PC while you are viewing them. :)   -- Peter WeaverJ Using a WIN NT/WIN 2000 box to manage your VMS systems is like towing your7 mechanic in a 5th wheel motor home behind your Porsche.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:16:19 -0400d- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>lY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered  in VMS e4 Message-ID: <snX77.271053$Z2.3277435@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  0 "Jim Agnew" <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> wrote in message% news:3B6031C0.1C1683BB@hsc.vcu.edu...oI > I have a few also, rotting on my vax... if someone puts up a site, I'llw > upload...v    K I have the ones below on my system. All of the .TXT files and one .SIX file H I picked up from Compuserve in 1989, I do not know who created them. TheK .COM I wrote and one Sixel drawing I did on my Rainbow using a font packagef I also got from Compuserve.h  # ANGEL.SIX;2 15-DEC-1989 11:03:52.03n"    A sixel drawing of some angels.( RANDOM_XMAS.COM;5 5-DEC-2000 17:39:00.97I    A .COM that "randomly" picks a XMAS%.TXT to type to the screen. If the H terminal supports sixel then 60% of the time it will get one of the .SIX	 pictures.i# XMAS0.TXT;2 14-DEC-1989 22:52:39.04l    Santa Clause holding a sign# XMAS1.TXT;2 15-DEC-1989 11:06:18.83a?    Snow falling on a tree, spells "Merry Christmas" at the end.w# XMAS2.TXT;2 14-DEC-1989 22:52:45.90n/    Snow falling, a bird flying, a tree growing.t# XMAS3.TXT;2 14-DEC-1989 22:52:56.70     A train going around a tree.m# XMAS4.TXT;2 14-DEC-1989 22:53:04.53sI    A class of champagne and a jack-in-the-box. If you enable your warning9F bell and have the terminal at 1200 buad then you will also hear jingle bells.# XMAS5.TXT;2 15-DEC-1989 12:50:32.43h    An angel flys onto the tree.5# XMAS6.TXT;2 17-DEC-1991 11:14:00.21     A tree and fireplace.# XMAS7.TXT;2 17-DEC-1991 11:14:48.84S    A Christmas Card.# XMAS8.TXT;2 15-DEC-1992 08:56:39.38o"    Santa gets stuck in the chimmy.# XMAS9.TXT;2 14-DEC-1989 22:53:43.38c    Santa flys to a house.o' XMAS_MESS.SIX;3 20-DEC-1989 11:54:49.49l    My original creation.  I If anyone has the space to put these then I can e-mail a copy in whateveroI format you want. Some emulators (PowerTerm for example) do a terrible jobIJ with some of these. You also have to set your baud rate down to appreciate some of them also.  L Whoever wants to host these can post a message here and I will e-mail a copy! today to the first posting I see.s     -- Peter WeaverJ Using a WIN NT/WIN 2000 box to manage your VMS systems is like towing your7 mechanic in a 5th wheel motor home behind your Porsche.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:44:28 GMTcB From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>X Subject: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mail5 Message-ID: <MgU77.7515$ar1.24223@www.newsranger.com>g  J On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:55:44 +0200, in article <3B5F3250.EAF3B9D1@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi wrote:c >oI >It was nice. I remember my first Christmas at DEC in 1983. We VMS peopleiC >received two VMS mail containing one a xmas tree with its blinking H >candles, and another one with a train choo-choo-ing in circle. All thisB >was displayed following the "instructions": type ext/noheader TT: >e  F Are these stored somewhere on the net ? It would be nice to build up a collection of these.  2 >We had VT100s at that time, and no virus risks... > # >Ahhh the good time. Gone for ever?A >:
 >Probably.  M The way that I tend to look at this is that the computer industry seems to becM going through the same stages that other technology such as cars and aircrafteL went through. In all three cases, as soon as the technology was invented, itL was taken up by a small set of people with high technical knowledge while atJ the same time undergoing a wide range of experimental designs to determineM what worked and what did not. It then moved more into the mainstream where itfK was just a tool to carry out another task. This resulted in a change to thesI very nature of the industry in question, from a technical enthusiast typed9 mentality to a "just another tool" engineering mentality.w  M Unlike cars and aircraft however, I see little evidence that current fashions M in computing are a massive improvement, at the technical level, over what haspJ gone previously even though better technology exists, ready to be used, in* today's "just another tool" type programs.  K While we are on the subject of history, what finally happened to the Mill ?   H Has anyone got around to publishing a history of DEC yet ? Are there any plans for such a book ?h   >s >How is Ken Olsen going? >F  K Good question. Has anybody asked him for a comment on the Alpha situation ?oK It must be difficult to see a company that you built up over decades ending 
 like this.   >D.P   Simon.   -- t; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPTK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered aiE truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.f   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jul 2001 14:45:51 GMT0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Ms5 Message-ID: <9jpaev$jm9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>   5 In article <MgU77.7515$ar1.24223@www.newsranger.com>,oD Simon Clubley  <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> wrote:L : On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:55:44 +0200, in article <3B5F3250.EAF3B9D1@gmx.ch>, : Didier Morandi wrote:A : > K : >It was nice. I remember my first Christmas at DEC in 1983. We VMS people E : >received two VMS mail containing one a xmas tree with its blinking0J : >candles, and another one with a train choo-choo-ing in circle. All thisD : >was displayed following the "instructions": type ext/noheader TT: : H : Are these stored somewhere on the net ? It would be nice to build up a : collection of these. : . Here's a start (including the Christmas card):  )   ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/vt100/t  4 : >We had VT100s at that time, and no virus risks... : > % : >Ahhh the good time. Gone for ever?  : >e : >Probably. : J Some of us use our Windows PCs primarily as VT terminal emulators and readK all our email on Unix or VMS.  If you restrict Windows to this kind of worklK (and maybe running a cautiously configured Web browser, but never, *never*,eH NEVER even *think* about using PC-based e-mail), it actually has several$ advantages over actual VT terminals:  H  . You can have lots of terminals at once, especially with a big screen.	  . Color.r  . Copy & paste.  . Configurable keys.e  J etc etc, plus I actually like the (real IBM) PC keyboard a lot better thanI the DEC ones, at least after I've swapped the Ctrl and Caps Lock (and EscSI and Grave) keys.  Unfortunately they don't make these keyboards any more,k& so if you've got 'em, hang on to them!   - Frank    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jul 2001 15:22:37 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)kY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MT' Message-ID: <9jpcjt$6h5$1@joe.rice.edu>   1 Frank da Cruz (fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:u : A : ...I actually like the (real IBM) PC keyboard a lot better than C : the DEC ones, at least after I've swapped the Ctrl and Caps Lock eA : (and Esc and Grave) keys.  Unfortunately they don't make these  < : keyboards any more, so if you've got 'em, hang on to them!  E The Northgate keyboards are still available as Avant Prime keyboards,e from www.innovativeoffice.com.   Specs are available at:s  E   http://www.northgate.com/products/keyboards_mouse/avant_stellar.htmi  E These weigh 5 lbs, so will stay put, as well as larting (l)users  :-)aE who want elevated privileges but can't explain why.               :-)-   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:43:33 +0100l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>pY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS M 8 Message-ID: <91b0mtos8nrc04280uen6k0ao09umlfk7p@4ax.com>  / On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:44:28 GMT, Simon Clubley 5 <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> wrote:i  K >On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:55:44 +0200, in article <3B5F3250.EAF3B9D1@gmx.ch>,d >Didier Morandi wrote: >>J >>It was nice. I remember my first Christmas at DEC in 1983. We VMS peopleD >>received two VMS mail containing one a xmas tree with its blinkingI >>candles, and another one with a train choo-choo-ing in circle. All this-C >>was displayed following the "instructions": type ext/noheader TT:e >> >sG >Are these stored somewhere on the net ? It would be nice to build up a( >collection of these.O  F I've got a collection on tape somewhere but have never loaded the tapeE at my current employer. Must rake it out sometime. I do know the XMASa& tree one is there and it is very good.     >>How is Ken Olsen going?s >> >IL >Good question. Has anybody asked him for a comment on the Alpha situation ?L >It must be difficult to see a company that you built up over decades ending >like this.d  $ I'd love to see an interview. Terry?     >  >>D. >: >Simon.@   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:29:41 -0400>. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mc+ Message-ID: <9jpggs$93v$1@bob.news.rcn.net>u  ; There a few 'animated' VT100 pictures at sunsite.unc.edu ine* /pub/multimedia/animation/vt100-animation.   Ken Randelle   >DH > Are these stored somewhere on the net ? It would be nice to build up a > collection of these. >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:34:25 +0200 < From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mv( Message-ID: <3B601C61.A068E395@home.com>  9 Taking about Ken Olsen, here is a quotation from Ken that> I have saved :   Ken Olsen : H    =====================================================================H    | The PC has bred anarchy! -  Hardware, software, and peripherals   |H    | have been thrown together in random configurations at the whim of |H    | any employee with access to an expense voucher and computer       |H    | catalogue. The result has been a financial and adminstrative      |H    | nightmare for corporations.                   -------Ken Olsen    |H    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++   Jan-Erik Sderholm.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:05:36 -0400l# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>pY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS M + Message-ID: <3B6031C0.1C1683BB@hsc.vcu.edu>>  G I have a few also, rotting on my vax... if someone puts up a site, I'lle	 upload...n   Frank da Cruz wrote:  7 > In article <MgU77.7515$ar1.24223@www.newsranger.com>,eF > Simon Clubley  <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> wrote:N > : On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:55:44 +0200, in article <3B5F3250.EAF3B9D1@gmx.ch>, > : Didier Morandi wrote:  > : >gM > : >It was nice. I remember my first Christmas at DEC in 1983. We VMS peopleaG > : >received two VMS mail containing one a xmas tree with its blinkingeL > : >candles, and another one with a train choo-choo-ing in circle. All thisF > : >was displayed following the "instructions": type ext/noheader TT: > :-J > : Are these stored somewhere on the net ? It would be nice to build up a > : collection of these. > :c0 > Here's a start (including the Christmas card): > + >   ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/vt100/Y >36 > : >We had VT100s at that time, and no virus risks... > : > ' > : >Ahhh the good time. Gone for ever?  > : >, > : >Probably. > :eL > Some of us use our Windows PCs primarily as VT terminal emulators and readM > all our email on Unix or VMS.  If you restrict Windows to this kind of work(M > (and maybe running a cautiously configured Web browser, but never, *never*,rJ > NEVER even *think* about using PC-based e-mail), it actually has several& > advantages over actual VT terminals: > J >  . You can have lots of terminals at once, especially with a big screen. >  . Color.c >  . Copy & paste. >  . Configurable keys.t >sL > etc etc, plus I actually like the (real IBM) PC keyboard a lot better thanK > the DEC ones, at least after I've swapped the Ctrl and Caps Lock (and EscsK > and Grave) keys.  Unfortunately they don't make these keyboards any more,g( > so if you've got 'em, hang on to them! >-	 > - Frank    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:52:37 +0200e< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mt( Message-ID: <3B604AD5.C2CC4381@home.com>   Peter Weaver wrote:   8 > You also have to set your baud rate down to appreciate > some of them also.    6 OK. And how to do *that* with my telnet connection :-)  	 Jan-Erik.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:47:55 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>aY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS M , Message-ID: <3B6057C7.F6424F48@videotron.ca>   Simon Clubley wrote: > >How is Ken Olsen going? > >  > M > Good question. Has anybody asked him for a comment on the Alpha situation ? M > It must be difficult to see a company that you built up over decades ending  > like this.  H I think that Ken Olsen probably got over his loss when Digital ceased toM exist. From an historical perspective, I think that people will just rememberiN that when Compaq bought Digital, it got rid of any of the stuff it didn't needI (including Alpha, etc ).  The fact that it took just a couple of years to M implement the dumping of Alpha is not that important since Compaq never tried1F to make Alpha succesful, one can easily argue that Compaq knew when itR acquired Digital that Alpha would be handed over to Intel when the time was right.  > And Compaq seemed to be in a big hurry to give Alpha to Intel.  M In the end, I think that Compaq views Digital assets as currency to buy/buildaN stuff for Compaq's core wintel business. Sell the assets here and there to pay  for buying/buiding wintel stuff.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:41:45 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bryY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History),was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MaeL Message-ID: <OF727FA3D1.020E6830-ON03256A95.004B29F0@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H Nobody heard me when I said it is important a new standard for a graphi= cal  x windowingt VT terminal ....     Regardsi   FC        < Jan-Erik S=F6derholm <noone@home.com> em 26/07/2001 10:34:25  7 Favor responder a Jan-Erik S=F6derholm <noone@home.com>s             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh      H Assunto: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not=  5          filtered in VMS Mail in VMS Mail in VMS Maill    9 Taking about Ken Olsen, here is a quotation from Ken thato I have saved :   Ken Olsen :oI    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=rI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=rB =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DH    | The PC has bred anarchy! -  Hardware, software, and peripherals   = |hH    | have been thrown together in random configurations at the whim of = |iH    | any employee with access to an expense voucher and computer       = |-H    | catalogue. The result has been a financial and adminstrative      = |eH    | nightmare for corporations.                   -------Ken Olsen    = |cH    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= +r   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm.          =<   ------------------------------  / Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:26:18 +0200 (MET DST)w& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>3 Subject: Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMS.6 Message-ID: <200107260626.IAA17008@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  D the KCPCA is a Symbios SYM8952U PCI to Ultra2 SCSI Host Adapter fromG LSIlogic and works well under OpenVMS. The KZPCA is a 16bit Low Voltagen< Differential Host Adapter and has the followin PCI features:   	o Full 32bit DMA bus master> 	o Zero wait-state bus master bursts up to 133Mbytes/s @ 33MHz 	o ...  6 I hope that the two points enaugh information for you.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:00:15 -0400D9 From: "D.B. Turner, islandco.com" <dbturner@islandco.com>A3 Subject: Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMS6/ Message-ID: <tlvtklmu6ftf72@news.supernews.com>g   Rich  B On - PC's -I can't see how it can do that with one controller chipD Now I know you can run Ultra Wide and LVD on the same card - it justJ separates the bus (with two connectors on the internals of the board) - UW' to one connector and LVD's on the otherR  I But that doesn't fix the problem with termination - which is where it allD goes to sh**  I 8 bit term on one side requires the same on the other - Ergo, 8 bits from9 the 16 go to never-never landy   DT     -- David Turner   We sell Alpha's & Alpha Partss http://www.islandco.com  sales@islandco.com Island Computers US Corp.i 2700 Gregory Street1 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622n Fax: 912 201 0096;  . Rich Jordan <rjordan@mcs.net> wrote in message/ news:ZuM77.18106$j02.265578@news.goodnet.com....0 > D.B. Turner, islandco.com wrote in message ... > >Richi > > K > >Well yes - it would work - but then you're going to be running your FAST ? > >Hard disk drives (if any scsi drives) at 8 bit narrow speedsm >n >nI > So this is not a controller capable of running each drive on its bus atl the2L > drive's rated speed?  A lot of peecee-type controllers claim that ability.@ > That would totally explain an earlier question I had about the configuratorG > demanding a second KZPCA for an internal tape drive even when one wass. > already configured for the internal disk(s). >  > >aF > >Remember the issues with SCSI - the slowest drive sets the standard > >y >o >hE > Again, I thought this had changed with more recent LVD controllers.oA > Obviously still lacking all the details on this beastie though.  >w > >eL > >As for IDE drives - I am surprised your customers will even accept them ! >i >sG > ONLY the CD-ROM is IDE, and in our applications, is only used for VMSeH > upgrades and rare emergencies to boot the standalone environment.  TheI > disks/tapes etc are always SCSI.  I had that fight out with the bosses.v > A > Thanks again for responding.  BTW, my PWS600au has the embeddednK > controller, currently running three internal Ultra-wide drives.  I have a- > KZPAA-C > running a DAT drive, and the CDROM is another IDE beast, for now.eF > A KZPCA, if it is compatible with this system, would allow me to addL > external ultra-2s, so we're looking at a (potential) 40 to 80MB/s upgrade,$ > not 80 - 160 that you referred to. >mK > THink one of these will work in an Alphastation 200?  Think its worth it?h :) >i
 > Rich Jordane >  >  >  >  >e   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 08:06:20 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n Subject: Re: LPs on the Web 3 Message-ID: <0xXyFdQu8sco@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  g In article <3B5F3FBE.223BE0F6@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>, Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  I >> I think you underestimate the cost of producing and checking all those H >> products before they go onto the master discs.  Is there really a newF >> version of the French variant of DECwindows ?  Did they provide theF >> documentation update required by internal procedures.  ConceptuallyH >> this is straightforward, but it takes a lot of people, including time< >> of the individual development teams when products change. > 2 >   Checking?  Like checking to make sure the file= > [CDROM]CD_CONTENTS.DAT was world readable on the March '01 d > Alpha Software Library CD? >  >  (It wasn't).e  : So they should check more carefully, and raise the prices.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:20:05 -0700i' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>t Subject: Re: LPs on the Webn+ Message-ID: <3B603525.E6D9E9BA@caltech.edu>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:  w > In article <nTp77.7102$zN6.4024420@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:o, > > David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:U > >> They  also charge an awful lot for the CONDIST, so they may consider it a profito > >> center. > >pN > > I think this is the real reason.  A CONDIST has got to only cost somethingO > > like $30 to produce and ship, yet they charge a little over $1000.  I'm not P > > sure what a subscription costs, however, it doesn't take much math to figureP > > out that they've got to be pulling in a MINIMUM of a few hundred thousand inM > > profits there, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a few million.  Taking-I > > that into consideration what logical reason is there for dropping it?d >oH > I think you underestimate the cost of producing and checking all those0 > products before they go onto the master discs.  T Which is, once you turn it around, ultimately the best argument for serving softwareR distributions over the net - there are no media preparation or distribution costs.  h If you find some part of the software that's being distibured  is broken you just fix it and put it backs on your distribution site.  Turnaround time could be on the order of minutes.  This is much  cheaper than making ancL errata CD, and much much cheaper than remastering, making thousands of CD's,w addressing, mailing, etc..  There are no master disks to make, and no bad runs whose cost must be absorbed if you screwiw up.  It's also a lot harder to go wrong with a software distribution scheme that consists of nothing more than dropping"I a saveset or self extracting archive into a common FTP or HTTP directory.h   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu  T ************************************************************************************> *                                                          RIHX Compaq                                                                                 *T ************************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:10:13 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o Subject: Re: Migration from VMS 8 Message-ID: <u1kvltsbikuhoi6j7m83q0q1hi0btrsabu@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:43:27 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert  Deininger) wrote:e    C >> ABB just announced 12000 job cuts yesterday... I used to do somelI >> consultancy work for an ABB location. They still had a VAX 6000 seriesbD >> cluster at that point. Don't know if they moved to Alphas or what  >> their futures intentions are. >n >t >Who/what is ABB?m  " Manuf/Eng conglomerate www.abb.com   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:00:54 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e. Subject: RE: Missing XDPS$DPSLIBSHR.EXE on 7.30 Message-ID: <009FF929.2D55681C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <R6QymPfmvm9e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:lq >In article <009FF8C7.38040442@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: ` >> In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICENNDAAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:L >>>Maybe this is naive, but what would happen if you just copied the library >>>from say a 7.1 system?o >> eO >> Been there and done that.  Short of the blocks it consumes on the disk it ishO >> copied to, it has no impact.  :(   The DECWindows server is lacking the sup-lP >> port needed too do/support Display PostScript.  They did everything possible 4 >> to suck up to Adobe and remove display postscript >-N >I gather you are suggesting they should ignore their contractual obligations.  G No.  But I'd wager there are a few more contracts to support users thana there are with Adobe.   E I don't care if they remove the XDPS stuff.  I'm going to keep an oldaF VMS distribution running for such purposes.  What I am concerned aboutE is the lack of a suitable replacement.  As I'm understanding it, this5E DPS code was licensed from Adobe.  Is there a license issue with pro-t1 viding something which provides the same results?s  E I use DECwrite occasionally to output documents which have .EPS filesxE in them and I use the CDA viewer to review output before I send it tooE the printer -- saves lots of paper, toner and fuser oil doing it thati way. y --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 08:04:19 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) . Subject: RE: Missing XDPS$DPSLIBSHR.EXE on 7.33 Message-ID: <Wz+c7jwUH80m@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  p In article <009FF929.2D55681C@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  G > I don't care if they remove the XDPS stuff.  I'm going to keep an old0H > VMS distribution running for such purposes.  What I am concerned aboutG > is the lack of a suitable replacement.  As I'm understanding it, thissG > DPS code was licensed from Adobe.  Is there a license issue with pro-p3 > viding something which provides the same results?t    E Not to my knowledge.  Such a contract clause would possibly not stand E up in court as a non-compete covenant.  As you know, your mileage may  vary.-  F I think the core of the issue is that replacing Display Postscript wasC not viewed by Compaq as a priority.  Considering how long after thenD announcement it took to even generate this much discussion, they are probably correct.3  C Personally, I was never attracted to Display Postscript because DECo< failed to provide a proper call interface and documentation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:04:42 -0400a5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> . Subject: Re: Missing XDPS$DPSLIBSHR.EXE on 7.31 Message-ID: <hrV77.164$Yx2.3223@news.cpqcorp.net>h  . Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote in message' <009FF8C7.38040442@SendSpamHere.ORG>...iE >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICENNDAAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden  <tom@kednos.com> writes:K >>Maybe this is naive, but what would happen if you just copied the library+ >>from say a 7.1 system? > J >Been there and done that.  Short of the blocks it consumes on the disk it isH >copied to, it has no impact.  :(   The DECWindows server is lacking the sup-D >port needed too do/support Display PostScript.  They did everything possibleJ >to suck up to Adobe and remove display postscript and screw VMS customers in$ >the same profuse inhaling function. >:    G We had *no choice*.  The license for DPS from Adobe did not survive the L Compaq aquisition and subsequent dissolution of Digital Equipment.  Adobe isH not interested in new licensing agreements for the use of DPS.  EveryoneB here would have been thrilled to simply cut a new deal with Adobe.  H The suggested alternative is to use Ghostview, which is available on theK freeware CD, for displaying postscript files.  Applications that use DPS on-) the other hand, have no real alternative.l   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 02:47:24 -0700  From: nclews@csc.com (Nic Clews)H Subject: Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)= Message-ID: <a720d610.0107260147.5ef91b55@posting.google.com>t  3 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message    M > I'm in no position to tell you you're wrong:  I'm no hardware engineer, and E > my main sources of information about the relative merits of Alpha'siL > technology vs. EPIC's are Paul DeMone's articles at realworldtech.com (andK > his occasional posts in comp.arch) and the infamous 1999 Compaq technicalf > comparsion .pdf. > I > But I'll question why you believe you understand the situation anywhereuF > nearly as well as those sources and most especially the senior AlphaJ > engineers who are stating (as I said, unequivocally) that maintaining orN > increasing Alpha's performance lead for the foreseeable future was eminently > feasible.a  E To be perfectly honest, I don't think anyone can perfectly understand F the situation. Such a computer could probably give you the question to$ the answer of "the meaning of life".  D One thing is fairly certain, and this is all chip designers, whetherF they be AMD, Intel, IBM, Compaq or whoever, will 'bump' into the speedE of light. After they have fab'ed down to the width of an electron andRE clocked so fast that the timing resolution itself cannot be measured,i= they will have to take a lateral think on how to achieve everv! increasing demands for CPU power.t  F Parallelism and multi threading is one way forward. Doing that well is> the key. If Alpha is limited, but another architecture is more
 capable...  F You are right in what you say, nothing concrete and technical has been? said [and it's possible nothing ever will] but there's no smokeiF without fire. Compaq may have lit the blaze, but something fuelled it.E I'm really only trying to speak from the perspective of probabilitiesl@ in the wider world, but I accept I may be wrong in what I think.  H > It's easy to say "What if...?".  But lacking supporting data it reallyN > doesn't carry any weight, whereas the sources I'm basing my understanding on > do.   D I fully accept that there are two(or more) sides to an argument, and= generally supporting evedence does carry more weight. HoweverpB 'eveidence' by definition is historical, and we live in a changing@ world whether I like it or not. If I had the ability to read theD future in such detail, I'm not entirely sure this would be my chosen career!   eG > If you point to increased IA64 instruction-issue width as a potentialtN > catcher-upper, I'll point to the rapidly decreasing gains that this providesL > (unless integrated with an SMT mechanism such as EV8's) due to the limitedJ > instruction-level parallelism of most sequential processes (and Amdahl'sI > law), and to the fact that in high-end *server* installations (the mainpN > market at which both beasts are likely aimed) multi-thread parallelism seemsN > a far more cost-effective course to follow (and that adding SMT to somethingK > already as complex as EPIC will not happen overnight and *still* wouldn't : > leverage the synergies between SMT and OOO as EV8 does).  E Agreed. There is so much more here, I've not seen here any mention ofnB the NUMA differences of an EPIC compared to RISC. My guess is thatB EPIC could fare better, because one of the things counting against: Alpha is the unpredictability, whereas EPIC relies more on< predictability. I've no evidence, no proof, it's a gut feel.  C In the best of all possible worlds, VMS would be ported to an Intel B architecture, and Alpha would continue to be produced, and to someB degree this is happening although an 'end of life' signal has been made for Alpha.e  D So Alpha 'lasted' 10-12 years of the predicted 25 years. In hardwareF terms I still consider that pretty good, CD-ROM is getting out evolvedE by DVD in a similar timescale. Economics played a major role in this,= not technology.e  F My main hope is that when a 128 bit chip appears, VMS is up there able@ to deliver itself and applications to the users of the hardware.D What's the likelihood of a 128 bit Alpha chip? What's the likelihoodD of a 128 bit Intel chip? What happens if all this 0 and 1 rubbish isE thrown out in favour of 10 discrete electrical values? [Or 8, or 16?]   J > But I suspect we're both talking about areas we're far less competent to5 > judge than people like Alpha's designers (or Paul).   ? I don't think it's harmful to have an imagination though, and I0$ respect your [and everyone's] views.  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:01:30 GMT 2 From: Piyush Avichal<pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> Subject: Perl DBI for VMSm5 Message-ID: <u7Q77.7366$ar1.24017@www.newsranger.com>    Hello,  I I am in the process of installing DBI(1.19) on my VAX system. I have justFP installed a prebuilt version of Perl(5.004_01) and have begun to install the DBIP module when I get thes following error message when I try to 'make' the module :   BART(SYSTEM)$ perl makefile.pl	 *** Note:-A The optional PlRPC-modules (RPC::PlServer etc) are not installed. = If you want to use the DBD::Proxy driver and DBI::ProxyServer F modules, then you'll need to install the RPC::PlServer, RPC::PlClient,D Storable and Net::Daemon modules. The CPAN Bundle::DBI may help you.7 You can install them any time after installing the DBI. 6 You do *not* need these modules for typical DBI usage.  B Optional modules are available from any CPAN mirror, in particular* http://www.perl.com/CPAN/modules/by-module* http://www.perl.org/CPAN/modules/by-module< ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/modules/by-module  # Checking if your kit is complete... 
 Looks good Writing Descrip.MMS for DBI   , Remember to actually *read* the README file!> Use  'make' to build the software (dmake or nmake on Windows).' Then 'make test' to execute self tests.nC Then 'make install' to install the DBI and then delete this workingr; directory before unpacking and building any DBD::* drivers.@   BART(SYSTEM)$ mmk N %MMK-F-CANTUPD, cannot update target [.BLIB.ARCH.AUTO.DBI]DRIVER.XST - sources unknownw    J I am relatively new to Perl, so I am unsure of what this message means and@ whether it is important. I am running VAX/VMS 7.1 and GCC 2.7.1.  2 I would appreciate any help that anyone can offer.   Regards,   Piyush   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:45:36 +0200u< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> Subject: Re: Perl DBI for VMSP3 Message-ID: <9jolc1$s891$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>l   Piyush Avichal wrote...t? > I am in the process of installing DBI(1.19) on my VAX system.s< > I have just installed a prebuilt version of Perl(5.004_01)  > Far too old. On the OpenVMS Freeware CDs you'll find 5.005_03,( the most recent stable version is 5.6.1.  # > and have begun to install the DBI > > module when I get thes following error message when I try to > 'make' the module :O ...I > BART(SYSTEM)$ mmkaH > %MMK-F-CANTUPD, cannot update target [.BLIB.ARCH.AUTO.DBI]DRIVER.XST - > sources unknowne > K >I am relatively new to Perl, so I am unsure of what this message means andsA >whether it is important. I am running VAX/VMS 7.1 and GCC 2.7.1.b  K In general, to install modules with .XS files, you need the C compiler thatvH perl itself was built with. That is, you either need Compaq C (that yourJ prebuilt version was probably built with), or you need to get yourself the- Perl sources and build it yourself using GCC.t   Hope this helps,   Martin -- ,J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deiJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/? And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de     ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:04:53 GMTc2 From: Piyush Avichal<pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> Subject: Re: Perl DBI for VMS 5 Message-ID: <V2R77.7391$ar1.23842@www.newsranger.com>    Martin,l  O I tried builing the version from the CD and also the one from the CPAN website,l, but I got an error message half way through.  M %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=00000002,o PC=000573CC, PSL=0BC00000 / %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followseL module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs PC   000573CC  000573CC 000545F5  000545F5M MUNCHCONFIG     main                                       00000070  00000526s  O So then I thought I would use one of the prebuilt versions which worked. I havehP been trying to find a version that will not crash during the configuration phase$ but have yet to find one. Any ideas?  N I have got GCC so thats not a problem. I just need to find a version that wont crash!   Regards,   Piyush.:      M In article <9jolc1$s891$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>, Martin Vorlaender says...  >t >Piyush Avichal wrote...@ >> I am in the process of installing DBI(1.19) on my VAX system.= >> I have just installed a prebuilt version of Perl(5.004_01)l >h? >Far too old. On the OpenVMS Freeware CDs you'll find 5.005_03,,) >the most recent stable version is 5.6.1.n >.$ >> and have begun to install the DBI? >> module when I get thes following error message when I try to  >> 'make' the module : >... >> BART(SYSTEM)$ mmkI >> %MMK-F-CANTUPD, cannot update target [.BLIB.ARCH.AUTO.DBI]DRIVER.XST -m >> sources unknown >>L >>I am relatively new to Perl, so I am unsure of what this message means andB >>whether it is important. I am running VAX/VMS 7.1 and GCC 2.7.1. >TL >In general, to install modules with .XS files, you need the C compiler thatI >perl itself was built with. That is, you either need Compaq C (that yourlK >prebuilt version was probably built with), or you need to get yourself theu. >Perl sources and build it yourself using GCC. >e >Hope this helps,t	 >  Martinv >-- K >One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmero8 >One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK >One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ @ >And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de  >a >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:26:50 +0200,< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> Subject: Re: Perl DBI for VMSu3 Message-ID: <9jonpb$q96q$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>r  ' Piyush Avichal schrieb in Nachricht ...nH > I tried builing the version from the CD and also the one from the CPAN7 > website, but I got an error message half way through.  ...dJ > So then I thought I would use one of the prebuilt versions which worked.E > I have been trying to find a version that will not crash during the : > configuration phase but have yet to find one. Any ideas? > K > I have got GCC so thats not a problem. I just need to find a version that*
 > wont crash!*  K Hmmm... IIRC, GCC v2.7.1 also is a rather dated version, with 2.8.something-G being current. Don't ask me whether or where this is available for VMS,g though.@  E On the other hand, you can get a license for the (very good) Compaq CoE compiler by becoming a DECUS member and participating in the Hobbyistd program.     cu,.   Martin -- eJ One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deTJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/? And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:23:35 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comE Subject: Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]i/ Message-ID: <00256A95.003E97EE.00@quegw01.btyp>g    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:0 bcc:& From:      Steve Spires@YELLOWPAGES, ,L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  < Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]    N Having tried to follow some of the technical threads regarding differing chipsN etc. I wonder if someone could suggest a good [in print] book which would giveO the best intruduction into how chips are designed, how they work, why differente chips ARE different etc.   Thanks   Steve Spires     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.  O Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT. Registeredn0 in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.  M Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1e@ 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:11:16 -0400i From: wwebb1@email.usps.govDI Subject: RE: Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]fK Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB75001925CDB@rlghncst625.usps.gov>e  2 Intel (or folks from Intel) wrote a book entitled  "How Microprocessors Work".   8 I got one gratis some years back when I wrote Dr. Grove  on some subject or another.i   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 6:46 AMeF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETG > Subject: Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]l >  > " > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:, > bcc:( > From:      Steve Spires@YELLOWPAGES, ,; > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, f > Bridge Street Plaza  > > > Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato] >  > 7 > Having tried to follow some of the technical threads r > regarding differing chipse@ > etc. I wonder if someone could suggest a good [in print] book  > which would give> > the best intruduction into how chips are designed, how they  > work, why differentp > chips ARE different etc. >  > Thanks >  > Steve Spires >  >  > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be> > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the  > message has been: > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose,  > reproduce, distribute or > use this transmission. > > > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named  > addressee is not= > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have 0 > received thisaH > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >  > Thank you. > > > Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,  > RG1 7PT. RegisteredA2 > in England and Wales, registered number 4205228. > 8 > Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road,  > Reading, Berkshire, RG1mB > 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:07:20 -0300o+ From: <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>tI Subject: RE: Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]sL Message-ID: <OF60A4956D.A207C33B-ON03256A95.00586750@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H Just wait the Itanium books ! ! ! And you can compare its internals with Alpha ! ! !s   Regards    FC        , wwebb1@email.usps.gov em 26/07/2001 12:11:16  ' Favor responder a wwebb1@email.usps.govo             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn      I Assunto: RE: Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]i    1 Intel (or folks from Intel) wrote a book entitledw "How Microprocessors Work".m  7 I got one gratis some years back when I wrote Dr. Grove  on some subject or another.    WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET-' > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 6:46 AMeF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETG > Subject: Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato]a >( >:" > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:2 > bcc:( > From:      Steve Spires@YELLOWPAGES, ,: > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, > Bridge Street Plazal >u> > Request for introductory books on Chips [silicon not potato] >f >f6 > Having tried to follow some of the technical threads > regarding differing chipsn? > etc. I wonder if someone could suggest a good [in print] book  > which would give= > the best intruduction into how chips are designed, how they' > work, why differenti > chips ARE different etc. >n > Thanks >  > Steve Spires >h >  > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be= > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the  > message has been9 > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose,' > reproduce, distribute or > use this transmission. >S= > Delivery of this message to any person other than the namedw > addressee is not< > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have > received thisrH > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >l > Thank you. >h= > Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,s > RG1 7PT. Registeredu2 > in England and Wales, registered number 4205228. >e7 > Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road,n > Reading, Berkshire, RG1lB > 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041. >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:11:42 GMTo  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>- Subject: Re: Selling VMS to another company ?t8 Message-ID: <q370mt8rajs2seppkl6sjsaqi1v3jqfgbb@4ax.com>  # On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:36:16 -0300,,* fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:   >gJ >I've read that the Unisys CMP ES7000 is already prepared to run IA-64 andF >can work with the IA-32 / IA-64 architecture in the same "box" (???).C >May be CPQ will have a "Galaxy" for Itanium machines.. which meanst< >having OpenVMS / Tru64 / WNT in the same "box" and managing= >the CPUs on demand... hmmmmm....what worries me more is dontn; >have the possibility to run OpenVMS / AIX in the same box. 2 >The ROMs should be "opened" for this possibility. >wL >It is my personal opinion ! I believe sometimes you think I am crazy .. but >I am not ! :-)i >u >Regards >m >FCe  B Um.  In our nomenclature, Galaxy (tm) is a software partitioning - i.e., done by the OS.i  ? Hard partitioning is not quite the same as Galaxy (tm).  Almostr@ anyonen can do hardware partitioning, but that doesn't make them galactic performers.   ------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:20:21 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>! Subject: Re: simple COPY questioneJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107261006360.20495-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  ' On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, John Santos wrote:r [...]o >+$ mount/for dla0: ! >+$ copy dua1:[dir]xxdp.dsk dla0:l >+ >+should do the trick.  	  Agree...*  2 >+  If dla0: has been previously initiallized as aE >+VMS disk, you will need lots of privs to allow you to overwrite it.s  =  Disagree - for "unknown security access" VOLPRO is required,d4 and VOLPRO is enought for *any* /foreign access... !>  With newest VMSes also access to device (the "hardware part",2 as distinct from "volume") allows /foreign access.;  Sure - VOLPRO or SYSPRV is a "lot" in priv. class, but the > point was that it is required REGARDLESS of the initialisation state of volume :)    My $.02 -:)    Regards - Gotfryd   -- rE =====================================================================rF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEo. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:46:06 -0700s* From: "William King" <wrking@dadaboom.com>! Subject: Re: simple COPY questionh> Message-ID: <NFBBJPCFMLDJOBNGBJGIIEAKCAAA.wrking@dadaboom.com>  I Thanks! The mount/foreign and copy did the trick. I just booted the newlybL created xxdp disk on my pdp-11/23. Creating it was simpler than I was trying to make it.u  
 Thanks again,t Bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:01:22 GMTs. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>A Subject: suggested reading: "Making a Mountain Out of a Molehill"oD Message-ID: <SmO77.1430$nS1.177439@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  L Given the discussions about whether Alpha could keep up, I recommend readingH the article by Paul DeMone titled "Making a Mountain Out of a Molehill".I (Perhaps someone else has mentioned it, but I didn't find it by searching, for molehill.)  ? http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT071901001629t  J Whether you agree or not with the conclusions Paul draws (I agree), unlessH you have already figured out the architecture, this does explain certainB aspects of the architect better than any other material I've seen.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:23:20 GMTt. From: "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net>E Subject: Re: suggested reading: "Making a Mountain Out of a Molehill"rD Message-ID: <sHO77.1461$nS1.184364@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   My favorite section is:f  I "The IA64 instruction set architecture was designed by a committee. ClosegC examination of this complex edifice suggest that this committee waslI dominated by enthusiastic compiler and architecture theorists rather thandH engineers experienced in the logic, circuit, and physical design of high- performance monolithic CMOS microprocessors."k  H Read the early chapters of Dileep Bhandarkar's Alpha Implementations andK Architecture and you get a flavor of the degree to which the chip designersnK and compiler people struggled to arrive at a design could be implemented ina, current and anticipated future technologies.  F There are some features in the architecture that have turned out to beL unfruitful paths toward improved performance - they were generally no ops inL EV4 are remain no ops with the primary cost being code points.  There were aK few "deletions" that were costly, the most expensive one being byte stores, I and the fact that this turns out not to be that expensive to implement in-G the end makes it a bit more painful to admit.  Still, on the whole, therL tradeoffs between what is in hardware and what is in the compiler were based  within the realm of possibility.  3 It seems to me that IA64 is just as the quote says.e  9 "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:SmO77.1430$nS1.177439@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...F > Given the discussions about whether Alpha could keep up, I recommend readingtJ > the article by Paul DeMone titled "Making a Mountain Out of a Molehill".K > (Perhaps someone else has mentioned it, but I didn't find it by searchingd > for molehill.) >SA > http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT071901001629T >BL > Whether you agree or not with the conclusions Paul draws (I agree), unlessJ > you have already figured out the architecture, this does explain certainD > aspects of the architect better than any other material I've seen. >  >e >y >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:23:48 GMT  From: "Bill" <billmuy@home.com>tE Subject: Re: suggested reading: "Making a Mountain Out of a Molehill"l? Message-ID: <8AP77.409232$p33.8364805@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>   9 "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> wrote in messagee> news:sHO77.1461$nS1.184364@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > My favorite section is:S > K > "The IA64 instruction set architecture was designed by a committee. CloseDE > examination of this complex edifice suggest that this committee was-K > dominated by enthusiastic compiler and architecture theorists rather thanpJ > engineers experienced in the logic, circuit, and physical design of high/ > performance monolithic CMOS microprocessors."n >   K Aaah!  Perhaps that stupid "committee" of "... theorists" had some faith ineL a proven trend (aka "Moore's Law") rather than some theoritic projections ofL "25 year lifespans and 1000-fold performance improvements".  I think Paul isG starting to get it, even though he may not realize it yet.  The articletK certainly reads like grudging respect for what's possible with EPIC and theC IPF implementations.  G But in the same summary, he couldn't resist a couple of parting jabs at2 IA64:o  L 1. Speculating that McKinley rumoured performance may be "close to the sweetH spot for IA64", suggesting that further performance gains would be hard.L Surely a person with Mr DeMone's apparent experience should know better than that!.  D 2. Ending with what I've always known will be the lasting legacy forI lpha  -- it's already responsible for all post-McKinley performance gainseH iin IA64 implementations, in the minds of some.  I wonder how the *real*' IA64 architects and engineers feel? :-)v  
 Catty, catty!a  C It will be iinteresting to read the article again in about 2 years.F  * Bill (who knows nothing about IPF futures)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:54:30 GMTIB From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>- Subject: Suggestion for IPF standalone backupm5 Message-ID: <aqU77.7536$ar1.24172@www.newsranger.com>.  C Is there any chance that IPF standalone backup could be enhanced tooF directly backup and restore savesets to and from a TCP/IP FTP server ?  F A mechanism similiar to that used by UCX's NFS client could be used to preserve saveset attributes.   What do people think ?   Simon.   -- s; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPpK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered aPE truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 10:42:27 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)r1 Subject: Re: Suggestion for IPF standalone backup 3 Message-ID: <wb3AHARY6RME@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  z In article <aqU77.7536$ar1.24172@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> writes:E > Is there any chance that IPF standalone backup could be enhanced toeH > directly backup and restore savesets to and from a TCP/IP FTP server ? > H > A mechanism similiar to that used by UCX's NFS client could be used to > preserve saveset attributes. >  > What do people think ?  @ 1) It seems much easier to enhance the rumored-to-be-forthcoming;    LAD/LAST support from Alpha VMS to include tape support.w  > 2) My understanding of the reason for leaving out tape support    is performance.  D 3) Backup enhancement priorities should be serving heavy duty backupD    users, who need the bandwidth of directly connected devices. YourF    suggestion comes in as a "might be nice", but others have a problemB    of "not enough hours in the backup window" which cannot even be9    addressed by throwing (hardware) money at the problem.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:50:13 +0100S% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s' Subject: Sun goes after Alpha user basen8 Message-ID: <3dvvlt8ndna00e8i5ek2ivlj5qm24g0e3v@4ax.com>  E Yesterday I received a "Sun Offers" brochure from Sun UK addressed to  "A Greig, VMS Systems Manager"  ? Today several of us, including the Europe/Eastern Hemisphere ITd2 Director, received a postcard from Sun which says:   DUMPED?-  Alpha recovery campaign from Sun  E in big bold letters on the front. The other side carries a quote fromr
 CW360 saying:oB "Compaq stunned the IT world this week by selling its 64 bit AlphaF chip technology to Intel and pledging to move all its server offerings? to Intel's Itanium chip by 2004. It is a massive leap of faith,nF because the low-cost IA64 architecture was late, is unproven and still lacks Windows support.  D It should encourage users of all solutions based on this to look forD better deals from server giants in the next few years. ParticaularlyB from Sun, whose business strategy, while also towards services, is= based on the magic properties of the RISC/UNIXtm combination"f CSW360 Friday 29 June 2001
 www.cw360.comI  C It then goes on to offer a 20% trade in value on any new Sun servere against an Alphaserver.   F So far I have not yet received any *formal* written communication from? Compaq but Sun have managed to get out two. Compaq appear to bed@ massively incompetent. Possibly the Alpha group has no expletive0 budget to send out reassuring glossies to users.  8 You can see the online version at http://sun.co.uk/alpha   Like the animation:r+ "Dumped? Lost, Lonely, Stabbed in the Back?  Therapy from Sun"g  D When will Compaq fight back or are they repeating the DEC mistake of= pushing 70% of the remaining customer base towards Sun or HP?n  F Here's my current take  on the matter. It doesn't matter if there wereA possible future difficulties ahead for Compaq in keeping up AlphatE performance vs IA64, Even if there were they had to at least make the C effort. Signaling you will give up at the very first sign you mightRE need to spend money sends all the wrong signs and only Wintel centredDE management could possibly not see this. My gut feeling is still  thatn< Compaq have signed their own death warrant., that Tru64 will> eventually be submerged by Linux (with Compaq's help) and thatF bizarrely only VMS might just make it through - maybe owned by someoneD else. I used to get laughed at for suggesting that VMS would outlive Alpha/NT...  -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:44:45 -0300 + From: <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> + Subject: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base L Message-ID: <OFB9AF0A1D.ABFF7424-ON03256A95.0045E4B2@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  = Dont worry about Compaq. What they want is  the bankruptcy ofs6 Q and divide the $hare$  between the stockholders ....     Regardso   FC        6 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> em 26/07/2001 08:50:13  1 Favor responder a Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu      ' Assunto: Sun goes after Alpha user basel      E Yesterday I received a "Sun Offers" brochure from Sun UK addressed tok "A Greig, VMS Systems Manager"  ? Today several of us, including the Europe/Eastern Hemisphere ITi2 Director, received a postcard from Sun which says:   DUMPED?t  Alpha recovery campaign from Sun  E in big bold letters on the front. The other side carries a quote frome
 CW360 saying: B "Compaq stunned the IT world this week by selling its 64 bit AlphaF chip technology to Intel and pledging to move all its server offerings? to Intel's Itanium chip by 2004. It is a massive leap of faith,nF because the low-cost IA64 architecture was late, is unproven and still lacks Windows support.  D It should encourage users of all solutions based on this to look forD better deals from server giants in the next few years. ParticaularlyB from Sun, whose business strategy, while also towards services, is= based on the magic properties of the RISC/UNIXtm combination"d CSW360 Friday 29 June 2001
 www.cw360.comE  C It then goes on to offer a 20% trade in value on any new Sun server- against an Alphaserver.2  F So far I have not yet received any *formal* written communication from? Compaq but Sun have managed to get out two. Compaq appear to be @ massively incompetent. Possibly the Alpha group has no expletive0 budget to send out reassuring glossies to users.  8 You can see the online version at http://sun.co.uk/alpha   Like the animation: + "Dumped? Lost, Lonely, Stabbed in the Back?: Therapy from Sun"e  D When will Compaq fight back or are they repeating the DEC mistake of= pushing 70% of the remaining customer base towards Sun or HP?   F Here's my current take  on the matter. It doesn't matter if there wereA possible future difficulties ahead for Compaq in keeping up AlphatE performance vs IA64, Even if there were they had to at least make the C effort. Signaling you will give up at the very first sign you mighteE need to spend money sends all the wrong signs and only Wintel centredNE management could possibly not see this. My gut feeling is still  thatr< Compaq have signed their own death warrant., that Tru64 will> eventually be submerged by Linux (with Compaq's help) and thatF bizarrely only VMS might just make it through - maybe owned by someoneD else. I used to get laughed at for suggesting that VMS would outlive Alpha/NT...n -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:46:10 -0400n( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>+ Subject: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base + Message-ID: <3B602D32.288D7219@bigfoot.com>o  E In order for Sun to spend ANY kind of money and time to send out suchiG things indicates that THEY perceive that there is a large enough market-H of disgruntled customers to make it worth their while.  It is also quiteG possible that for a lot of system managers (you know, the busy, working G ones) that this is the first they have heard of the dropping of alpha. cC Imagine if you're in this category?  What a way to hear about it!!!e   HM   Alan Greig wrote:n > G > Yesterday I received a "Sun Offers" brochure from Sun UK addressed tow  > "A Greig, VMS Systems Manager" > A > Today several of us, including the Europe/Eastern Hemisphere ITr4 > Director, received a postcard from Sun which says: > 	 > DUMPED?l" > Alpha recovery campaign from Sun > G > in big bold letters on the front. The other side carries a quote from  > CW360 saying:sD > "Compaq stunned the IT world this week by selling its 64 bit AlphaH > chip technology to Intel and pledging to move all its server offeringsA > to Intel's Itanium chip by 2004. It is a massive leap of faith, H > because the low-cost IA64 architecture was late, is unproven and still > lacks Windows support. > F > It should encourage users of all solutions based on this to look forF > better deals from server giants in the next few years. ParticaularlyD > from Sun, whose business strategy, while also towards services, is? > based on the magic properties of the RISC/UNIXtm combination"  > CSW360 Friday 29 June 2001 > www.cw360.comc > E > It then goes on to offer a 20% trade in value on any new Sun servera > against an Alphaserver.. > H > So far I have not yet received any *formal* written communication fromA > Compaq but Sun have managed to get out two. Compaq appear to beoB > massively incompetent. Possibly the Alpha group has no expletive2 > budget to send out reassuring glossies to users. > : > You can see the online version at http://sun.co.uk/alpha >  > Like the animation: - > "Dumped? Lost, Lonely, Stabbed in the Back?i > Therapy from Sun"  > F > When will Compaq fight back or are they repeating the DEC mistake of? > pushing 70% of the remaining customer base towards Sun or HP?a > H > Here's my current take  on the matter. It doesn't matter if there wereC > possible future difficulties ahead for Compaq in keeping up Alpha-G > performance vs IA64, Even if there were they had to at least make theWE > effort. Signaling you will give up at the very first sign you might G > need to spend money sends all the wrong signs and only Wintel centred G > management could possibly not see this. My gut feeling is still  thatl> > Compaq have signed their own death warrant., that Tru64 will@ > eventually be submerged by Linux (with Compaq's help) and thatH > bizarrely only VMS might just make it through - maybe owned by someoneF > else. I used to get laughed at for suggesting that VMS would outlive
 > Alpha/NT...r > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:41:25 -0400E- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> + Subject: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base-, Message-ID: <3B605641.8F827E22@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:=G > Yesterday I received a "Sun Offers" brochure from Sun UK addressed toL  > "A Greig, VMS Systems Manager"  E If Sun wants your business and Compaq doesn't care about keeping your=M business, then you should go with the vendor that really wants your business.   M Acquiring new customers is very costly. Compaq gave Sun a very easy and cheap>I opportunity to get plenty of new customers. It is called competition, andC< where there is competition, the more agressive vendor wins.   M Compaq expects Microsoft and Intel to do its marketing. And neither Microsoftt, nor Intel will start to do marketing of VMS.  G > management could possibly not see this. My gut feeling is still  that,- > Compaq have signed their own death warrant.e    G Compaq is measured by itw Wintel activities. Compaq will survive. If ittL manages to convert just 10% of its VMS customers to NT, it means that Compaq0 will grow by 10% from Wall Street's perspective.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:08:35 +0000M  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comJ Subject: Two Vax 4000-60 with RRD40 + 2xVR219 plus owner manual free in UK/ Message-ID: <00256A95.003D37DC.00@quegw01.btyp>m    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:h bcc:& From:      Steve Spires@YELLOWPAGES, ,L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  A Two Vax 4000-60 with RRD40 + 2xVR219 plus owner manual free in UKr    K As in the subject - free to a good home. Not overly blessed in the resource0L department [RZ23s or RZ24s IIRC, althought one of them has two disks in, andK only about 16 MB of memory] but they work. The disk have no OS on them now.6  I I live between Northampton and Coventry, but work in Reading and would be 6 willing to deliver not far from either of those areas.   Steve Spires     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.  O Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT. Registeredd0 in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.  M Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1s@ 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:08:48 +0100s4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>N Subject: Re: Two Vax 4000-60 with RRD40 + 2xVR219 plus owner manual free in UK8 Message-ID: <vo90mtcg80g4pc3rtcd1aif5hfi1hhllk5@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:08:35 +0000, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:u  B >Two Vax 4000-60 with RRD40 + 2xVR219 plus owner manual free in UK >iL >As in the subject - free to a good home. Not overly blessed in the resourceM >department [RZ23s or RZ24s IIRC, althought one of them has two disks in, and L >only about 16 MB of memory] but they work. The disk have no OS on them now.  H All those folks who ask "where can I get cheap or free Vaxes from?" need look no further :-)   E I have no need to take up Steve's kind offer, but can offer advice on E suitable disks, cdroms, etc for these very nice bits of kit.  (Sadly,eH memory you can't scrimp on nor is it in any way generic.  My 60 has 56MbF which is very workable, but you can scrape by on 24 Mb with a graphics head, just.)  6 Btw, what is a VR219 ?  Did you mean VR299, or VRT19 ?     	John3 -- M
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:39:56 GMTl' From: mark@*NO*SPAM*techop.co.uk (Mark)@ Subject: Using pthread_t/ Message-ID: <3b603954.29241927@news.force9.net>e   Hi,s   OpenVMS 7.2-1 AlphaS  B I want extract a printable thread id (for debugging purposes) from@ a pthread_t variable.  This is easy in UNIX because pthread_t is? just an integer.  However pthread_t seems to be a 64 bit opaque : pointer type in VMS.  Does anyone know how to get a thread number from this?    TIAt
 Mark Williams    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 07:51:36 -04005 From: pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) 7 Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problemr3 Message-ID: <9jp088$2av$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org>s  > In article <MPG.15c957d8eb38b33898968e@news.bellatlantic.net>,2 John Santos  <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> wrote:5 >In article <9jnrig$npo$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org>, a) >pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org says...  >> gH >> I've been trying for two hours to get the VAX/VMS paks to work on the >> Vaxstation 3100 M38 here...  A >> The back of the machine shows Model: WS42-BF. SN: AB01000U3E. i  B >... You're trying too hard!  I think it wants the SN: (AB01000U3ED >above), but it doesn't really care.  The license code doesn't check4 >the SN or the SID.  This is just for the paperwork. >l >n >HTH >  >--  >John   G Wonder why it doesn't like the checksums then...  I've relicensed threea( times and every time it doesn't take it.  G I've got both layered product PAKS and the VAX-VMS initial one and theye< all choke... I'm following the Hobbyist Guide to the letter.   Bill -- t ---t>   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a >   villain in a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller 8   bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:56:20 -0400F; From: Robert DiRosario <robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>D7 Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problema- Message-ID: <3B601374.40726FF2@gsfc.nasa.gov>n  ? >I've relicensed three times and every time it doesn't take it.I  J I had the same problems on my M48.  You don't need the S/N for the licenseK to work.. If you look at the licenses, you'll notice they are DCL commands. I Just type them in at the command line. I've had no problems entering themeH from the command line, but couldn't get them to work using the LMF menu.  J Assuming you have a VAXStation and not a MicroVAX, after you have the baseK VMS and DW-MOTIF license installed reboot the system and you should get DEC@> Windows, which is much nicer that the plain console interface.     Bill Pechter wrote:c  @ > In article <MPG.15c957d8eb38b33898968e@news.bellatlantic.net>,4 > John Santos  <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> wrote:6 > >In article <9jnrig$npo$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org>,+ > >pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org says...l > >>J > >> I've been trying for two hours to get the VAX/VMS paks to work on the  > >> Vaxstation 3100 M38 here... >hB > >> The back of the machine shows Model: WS42-BF. SN: AB01000U3E. >sD > >... You're trying too hard!  I think it wants the SN: (AB01000U3EF > >above), but it doesn't really care.  The license code doesn't check6 > >the SN or the SID.  This is just for the paperwork. > >d > >f > >HTH > >o > >--n > >Johne >pI > Wonder why it doesn't like the checksums then...  I've relicensed threei* > times and every time it doesn't take it. >nI > I've got both layered product PAKS and the VAX-VMS initial one and theyg> > all choke... I'm following the Hobbyist Guide to the letter. >t > Bill > -- > ---c? >   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being ae? >   villain in a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller : >   bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jul 01 09:42:39 MDT" From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)7 Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problemK% Message-ID: <UK8D8aldTrWF@cc.usu.edu>a  7 pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes: C > At least the 11/780 could show the serial number on the backplane  > from the console.e  B Sure, back when the serial number was wirewrapped by hand when theA CPU was built. When you're stamping them out by the millions in ar9 silicon foundry it's a bit difficult to personalize them.o -- lN -------------------------+----------------------------------------------------+ Roger Ivie               | Free the ROT-13! : ivie@cc.usu.edu          |    http://www.freesklyarov.org/ http://cc.usu.edu/~ivie/ |   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:34:00 GMTr From: vcf@vintage.orgt. Subject: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL EAST 1.0!!!; Message-ID: <IeT77.670$Kd7.785959@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>a   .n    7                      Vintage Computer Festival East 1.002                           July 28th and 29th, 20017                      Royal Plaza Hotel and Trade Center 3                          Marlborough, Massachusettse7                       http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/S    D The first Vintage Computer Festival for the east coast of the UnitedE States is scheduled for the weekend of July 28th and 29th at the BestrI Western Royal Plaza Hotel and Trade Center in Marlborough, Massachusetts.k  E The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and theirkE history.  The event features speakers, a vintage computer exhibition,tD and a vintage computer marketplace.  We showcase all different typesC of computers for all differents kinds of platforms in all different  shapes and sizes.e  D If you wish to pass the word about the VCF along to your co-workers,8 a printable flyer in Word format can be downloaded here:  0     http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/vcfeast.doc     SPEAKERS AND WORKSHOPS  C We've got a terrific line-up of speakers at the inaugural VCF East.D The speakers include:i       Wayne Greeny  C     Founder of Byte and 73 Magazine, among many other publications.t@     The influence of Wayne's computer publications propelled the0     microcomputer revolution of the 70s and 80s.       Eldon Hall  D     The "Father" of the Apollo Guidance Computer, Eldon will discussB     the development the computer that brought the first men to the	     moon.        Christine Finn
           C     Christine is bringing the discipline of an archaeologist to thegA     study of computer history.  She'll be discussing her upcoming6A     book "Artefacts: The Material Culture of the Silicon Valley".a       Michael Nadeau  B     Michael will be taking on the subject of determining the value@     of old computers for buying, selling and trading.  He's also      writing a book on the topic.       Megan Gentry  @     Megan, a former DEC employee, will be giving a workshop that>     every beginning collector of DEC gear will want to attend.D     She'll also be exhibiting the PDP 11/73 that was used to controlH     the heating and air systems at The Mill (DEC's former headquarters).       Curt Vendelv  B     Curt founded the Atari Historical Society to spread the gospelC     of Atari's relatively short but significantly colorful history.sC     He'll be giving a talk about Atari's history and the collectionk.     of Atari items he has in the AHS archives.    ' The speaker schedule can be found here:f  1     http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/speaker.php3i     FABULOUS DOOR PRIZES!   D Year after year, the VCF always has the best stuff to give away, and this year is no different   ?     o Complete NeXT "Cube" to be awarded to one lucky attendee!dD     o Mindset computer to be given away to the Best of Show Exhibit!  A These prizes are being furnished by the Atari Historical Society.t Visit the AHS at:         http://www.atari-history.org     VINTAGE COMPUTER EXHIBITION6  G Come see a room full of functioning computers going back three decades!eF The VCF Exhibition is always an exciting place to learn about computer) history in a first-hand, hands-on manner.S  D Vote on your favorite exhibit and help the Best of Show exhibitor go@ home with a Mindset computer.  The Mindset was hailed as a majorC innovation when it debuted in 1983, with multimedia sound, graphicst and video editing features.t  ? This machine is being provided by the Atari Historical Society:p        http://www.atari-history.org    2 BUY/SELL/TRADE AT THE VINTAGE COMPUTER MARKETPLACE  A Looking for an old computer to add to your collection?  Have some A spare items you'd like to sell?  Want to meet other collectors tobC trade with?  The VCF Marketplace is the best place on the planet toa do all these things.  B You can still bring items to sell in the consignment section.  For information please visit:g  <     http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/vendor.php3#consignment    , TELL A FRIEND! TELL A FRIEND! TELL A FRIEND!  C We really hope to see you at the first VCF for the east coast!  Andn remember, tell your friends!!l  8 A printable flyer in Word format can be downloaded here:  0     http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/vcfeast.doc    7                      Vintage Computer Festival East 1.0s2                           July 28th and 29th, 20017                      Royal Plaza Hotel and Trade Centeru3                          Marlborough, Massachusettsi7                       http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jul 2001 07:26:39 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths.r0 Message-ID: <9jognf$g6n$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  ) In article <u8zhcprxo.fsf@earthlink.net>,l- Anne & Lynn Wheeler  <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:f( >Aaron Sawyer <asawyer@iris.com> writes: >>  O >> Sounds like Cambridge University's CP/CMS (Control Program/Cambridge Monitor M >> System) on the S360/67 (65 with DAT box, IIRC).  Certainly had the Virtualg# >> Machine implemented.  Very nice.a >uE >It was the IBM Cambridge Scientific Center located at 545 Tech. Sq.,aE >Cambridge Mass (same bldg. as Multics) and had some number of peopleeF >that worked on CTSS. Started with CP & CMS on 360/m40 that had customC >modified hardware to support virtual memory in '65/'66 era ... andn5 >then was ported to 360/m67 when it became available.6  ? Yes.  The operating systems and suchlike developed at Cambridge > University included those for EDSAC and Titan, Phoenix (on top@ of MVT/MVS), CHAOS (a capability system written in Algol 68) andA Tripos (a superior CPM-like object in BCPL).  But not CP/CMS ....w  B The number of Cambridges active in the computing area can be quite0 confusing, especially when they collaborated :-)     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:31:37 GMTo+ From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>w% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths..) Message-ID: <ud76ocg0x.fsf@earthlink.net>*  0 "mulp" <michaelpettengill@earthlink.net> writes:  L > IBM implemented virtula machines (VM's) before the above was implemented -H > the upgrade strategy that IBM used to move customers to the 360 was toI > provide VM's for each of the machines that IBM wanted to replace - eg.,aJ > those 1401 somethings or another.  And there were probably other VM's as1 > well before the 360 from IBM and other vendors.f  > IBM provided hardware emulation of earlier hardware on various= processors ...  i.e. 360s were almost all microcoded machinessF ... where "microcode" on the microprocessor emulated 360. The machinesB were also shipped with "microcode" to simulate other machines. The@ following is out of a recent "golden era of compilers" thread in alt.folklore.computers:o   >l2 >>40	1410 (I don't remember that it also did 1401). >          1410 or 1401 - 2 different products >>50	1410, maybe 7040aF >           1410 or 7070 (2 distinct products, you couldn't get both!)	 >>65	709xi" >           and IIRC also 705/7080 >6, >7070 includes 7074, and 1410 includes 7010. >C  E aka 360/m40 had microcode emulation to emulate earlier machines. note C also that 360/m30 included microcode emulation for 1401. Typically,nE there was a switch on the front panel someplace that switched between-; 360 hardware (emulation) and some other hardware emulation.r  ? I don't know anybody claiming such implementations were virtual 	 machines.   E note reference in *[26} below in extract from melinda's paper at PUCCo" http://pucc.princeton.edu/~melinda     C. CP-40 and CMS u  E In the Fall of 1964, the folks in Cambridge suddenly found themselves C in the position of having to cast about for something to do next. AyD few months earlier, before Project MAC was lost to GE, they had beenD expecting to be in the center of IBM's time-sharing activities. Now,D inside IBM, ``time-sharing'' meant TSS, and that was being developed@ in New York State. However, Rasmussen was very dubious about theE prospects for TSS and knew that IBM must have a credible time-sharingeE system for the S/360. He decided to go ahead with his plan to build aaE time-sharing system, with Bob Creasy leading what became known as theo CP-40 Project.  A The official objectives of the CP-40 Project were the following: v  A 1. The development of means for obtaining data on the operationals9 characteristics of both systems and application programs;%  F 2. The analysis of this data with a view toward more efficient machine> structures and programming techniques, particularly for use in interactive systems;  > 3. The provision of a multiple-console computer system for the$ Center's computing requirements; and  F 4. The investigation of the use of associative memories in the control of multi-user systems.*[22]   F The project's real purpose was to build a time-sharing system, but theF other objectives were genuine, too, and they were always emphasized in> order to disguise the project's ``counter-strategic'' aspects.F Rasmussen consistently portrayed CP-40 as a research project to ``helpE the troops in Poughkeepsie'' by studying the behavior of programs andeE systems in a virtual memory environment. In fact, for some members ofrB the CP-40 team, this was the most interesting part of the project,B because they were concerned about the unknowns in the path IBM wasF taking. TSS was to be a virtual memory system, but not much was reallyE known about virtual memory systems. Les Comeau has written: Since then@ early time-sharing experiments used base and limit registers forA relocation, they had to roll in and roll out entire programs wheneA switching users....Virtual memory, with its paging technique, wasn> expected to reduce significantly the time spent waiting for an exchange of user programs.  = ------------------------------------------------------------ t  C 31 or 32 bits. We eventually voted and recommended 31 bits. We also C discussed the design of the relocation register and had some heateds9 discussions with the IBM team. The Inner Six met with IBMsD representatives behind closed doors at a SHARE meeting. We six sites= discussed various features of TSS and made recommendations to4E IBM. This was the beginning of the SHARE TSS Project.'' (J.M. Winett,: private communication, 1990.)   C 22 R.J. Adair, R.U. Bayles, L.W. Comeau, and R.J. Creasy, A VirtualdE Machine System for the 360/40, IBM Cambridge Scientific Center Reportp& 320-2007, Cambridge, Mass., May, 1966.  = ------------------------------------------------------------    C What was most significant was that the commitment to virtual memoryeF was backed with no successful experience. A system of that period thatC had implemented virtual memory was the Ferranti Atlas computer, andoD that was known not to be working well.  What was frightening is thatD nobody who was setting this virtual memory direction at IBM knew why@ Atlas didn't work.*[23] Creasy and Comeau spent the last week ofC 1964*[24] joyfully brainstorming the design of CP-40, a new kind ofnF operating system, a system that would provide not only virtual memory,F but also virtual machines.*[25] They had seen that the cleanest way toD protect users from one another (and to preserve compatibility as theF new System/360 design evolved) was to use the System/360 Principles ofA Operations manual to describe the user's interface to the ControlpC Program. Each user would have a complete System/360 virtual machine9D (which at first was called a ``pseudo-machine'').*[26] The idea of aD virtual machine system had been bruited about a bit before then, butE it had never really been implemented. The idea of a virtual S/360 waseF new, but what was really important about their concept was that nobodyC until then had seen how elegantly a virtual machine system could beiE built, with really very minor hardware changes and not much software.4  = ------------------------------------------------------------ c  D 23 L.W. Comeau, ``CP-40, the Origin of VM/370'', Proceedings of SEAS AM82, September, 1982, p. 40.s  A 24 Creasy had decided to build CP-40 while riding on the MTA. ``IoF launched the effort between Xmas 1964 and year's end, after making theB decision while on an MTA bus from Arlington to Cambridge. It was aA Tuesday, I believe.'' (R.J. Creasy, private communication, 1989.)S  @ 25 R.J. Creasy, General Description of the Research Time-SharingB System with Special Emphasis on the Control Program, IBM CambridgeC SR&D Center Research Time-Sharing Computer Memorandum 1, Cambridge,t@ Mass., January 29, 1965. L.W. Comeau, The Philosophy and LogicalD Structure of the Control Program, IBM Cambridge SR&D Center ResearchE Time-Sharing Computer Memorandum 2, Cambridge, Mass., April 15, 1965.n  D 26 For the first few weeks, the CSC people referred to their conceptF as a ``pseudo-machine'', but soon adopted the term ``virtual machine''D after hearing Dave Sayre at IBM Research use it to describe a systemC he had built for a modified 7044. Sayre's M44 system was similar toiC CP-40, except for the crucial difference of not providing a controleC program interface that exactly duplicated a real machine. The CP-40-E team credited Sayre with having ``implanted the idea that the virtualo; machine concept is not necessarily less efficient than moreHB conventional approaches.'' (L. Talkington, ``A Good Idea and StillE Growing'', White Plains Development Center Newsletter, vol. 2, no. 3,tA March, 1969.) ``The system built by Dave Sayre and Bob Nelson waseC about as much of a virtual machine system as CTSS---which is to sayoA that it was close enough to a virtual machine system to show that.D `close enough' did not count. I never heard a more eloquent argumentB for virtual machines than from Dave Sayre.'' (R.J. Creasy, private communication, 1990.)A  A 27 ``Dick Bayles was not only a great programmer, he was also the : fastest typist I have ever seen.''  (W.J. Doherty, privateE communication, 1990.) ``When Dick Bayles sat down [at a keypunch], hen@ wrote code as fast as it could punch cards. Yes, the machine wasE slower than Bayles composing code on the fly.'' (R.J. Creasy, private$ communication, 1989.)d   -- ,H Anne & Lynn Wheeler   | lynn@garlic.com -  http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:39:26 GMT1+ From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>i% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths..) Message-ID: <uhew0ay3x.fsf@earthlink.net>n  " hack@watson.ibm.com (hack) writes:M > Historically, the coupling between virtual card punches and readers (acrosstH > the RSCS company-wide network, aka VNET) was the primary communicationM > interface (nearly 30 years old).  It may sound quaint, but it's really justnO > a data pipe (with 80-byte blocks) with tagged ends to perform the connection,eK > and it has a really simple interface (no connection protocols etc. -- theoN > network is store-and-forward, so it's literally like mailing postcards whereM > bunches (individual "spool files") are guaranteed to arrive in order (there D > is no virtual equivalent to a deck of cards spilled on the floor).  C one of the problems with the "spool file" interface was that it was6C syncronous on open, close and on 4k buffer boundaries doing various:A disk I/O (whether it was using straight UR simulation or 4k blockTD transfers). in the mid-80s, a VNET virtual machine supporting even a? few full-duplex 56kbit links could spend 90% of elapsed time in C "blocked" state waiting on syncronous (disk) spool file operations.   ; one of the things that we did in HSDT was implement severala@ asyncronous functions for VNET so we could start seeing it drive/ multiple full-duplex T1 links at media thruput.-  G In HSDT, we also got the mainframe TCP/IP thruput up from 44kbybtes/secv to hardware channel speed.   random refs:. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hsdt0 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#xtphsp( http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm   -- 0H Anne & Lynn Wheeler   | lynn@garlic.com -  http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:23:11 -0500 2 From: woic3t8bt4knls001@sneakemail.com (Tim Olson)% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths.2I Message-ID: <woic3t8bt4knls001-2507010823120001@jump-x2-0146.jumpnet.com>   < In article <9jl5gj0220m@enews1.newsguy.com>, TTK Ciar wrote:  J |   First, I dimly remember Virtual Memory as it exists today first being I | deployed on the TITAN architecture, back in the 60's(?), which was not eI | IBM but someone else.  I could be wrong, though, and it might not have d | been the first.o  8 It was the Manchester/Ferranti Atlas prototype, in 1961.   -- i        -- Tim Olsonh   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:05:49 GMTn, From: sarr@engin.umich.edu (Sarr J. Blumson)% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths.s6 Message-ID: <1tV77.1563$96.1412@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>  I In article <woic3t8bt4knls001-2507010823120001@jump-x2-0146.jumpnet.com>,o3 Tim Olson <woic3t8bt4knls001@sneakemail.com> wrote:b= >In article <9jl5gj0220m@enews1.newsguy.com>, TTK Ciar wrote:a >dK >|   First, I dimly remember Virtual Memory as it exists today first being  J >| deployed on the TITAN architecture, back in the 60's(?), which was not J >| IBM but someone else.  I could be wrong, though, and it might not have  >| been the first. >u9 >It was the Manchester/Ferranti Atlas prototype, in 1961.n  C And, to close the loop, I believe Titan was the follow on to Atlas.o   -- c --------? Sarr Blumson                    sarr.blumson@alum.dartmouth.orgh5 voice: +1 734 764 0253          home: +1 734 665 9591nD JSTOR, University of Michigan   http://www-personal.umich.edu/~sarr/' 301 E Liberty, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2262r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:47:14 -0700u% From: J Ahlstrom <jahlstro@cisco.com>i% Subject: Re: VM: checking some myths.i) Message-ID: <3B602D72.41BB15FE@cisco.com>    Aaron Sawyer wrote:r   > JF Mezei wrote:t > >g > > Peter Hancock wrote:C > > > 1. Nobody asked for VM. It was some kind of moonlight projectm0 > > >    by a scientific computing group at IBM. > >nN > > I had heard it had been developped by some university or other educational2 > > organisation and then adopted big time by IBM. >nN > Sounds like Cambridge University's CP/CMS (Control Program/Cambridge MonitorL > System) on the S360/67 (65 with DAT box, IIRC).  Certainly had the Virtual" > Machine implemented.  Very nice. >o% > [remainder snipped; nothing to add]   6 It was not Cambridge University but the IBM Scientific, Center in Cambridge, our fair city, MA, that
 built CP/CMS.e   JKA    --5 The internet is "the largest legal creation of wealthp in the history of the planet."                     Noted VC 2000  . "I'm here today with something of an apology,"+ the Internet is "the largest legal creation": (and evaporation) of wealth in the history of the planet."/ But, "I stand by my statement that the Internet  was -- and is -- under-hyped".                   Noted VC 2001y   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 09:37:49 -0700# From: paszty@xoma.com (Nick Paszty)r Subject: VMS Prompt valuep= Message-ID: <14ce1c21.0107260837.1fd639be@posting.google.com>a   hello.  F we're running vms 7.1 on an alphaserver 800 5/333 and i have written aD com file, cd.com,  that dynamically changes my prompt to the currentF working directory.  as i get deeper into a directory tree, i sometimes$ receive the following error message.  # $3$DRA2:.SASAPPS.TOOLS]cd utilities 7 %DCL-E-STRTOOLNG, string argument is too long - shortenh $3$DRA2:.SASAPPS.TOOLS]show def .   LARDAT2DISK:[000000.SASAPPS.TOOLS.UTILITIES]  ? is there a length limit to the prompt value?  is there a way toe increase the value?e   thanks,e   nick   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:49:55 -0400i( From: "Thomas Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu> Subject: Re: VMS Prompt valuee/ Message-ID: <tm0il26caq6ue7@corp.supernews.com>t  J There is a size limit of 32 characters for the prompt.  My com file I haveH included below shortens the prompt if the you are in a directory that is very deep in a tree.   Tom Steuvert  " $ IF P1 .EQS. "" THEN GOTO NO_JUMP( $ IF P1 .EQS. "HOME" THEN GOTO JUMP_HOME $ set default 'P1  $ GOTO NO_JUMP $JUMP_HOME:o $ SET DEFAULT SYS$LOGINp	 $NO_JUMP:a $ cdisk = F$TRNLNM("sys$disk") $ gdir = f$directory()% $ SET MESSAGE/NOTEXT/NOID/NOSEV/NOFAC  $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO NO_DISK! $ set prompt = "''cdisk'''gdir' "  $ GOTO JUMP_NO_DISKa	 $NO_DISK:n $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO NO_DIR  $ SET PROMPT = "''gdir' "i $ GOTO JUMP_NO_DISK  $NO_DIR: $ SHOW DEFAULT $ SET PROMPT = "[] " $JUMP_NO_DISK: $ SET MESSAGE/TEXT/ID/SEV/FAC2 $ EXIT    0 "Nick Paszty" <paszty@xoma.com> wrote in message7 news:14ce1c21.0107260837.1fd639be@posting.google.com...e > hello. >.H > we're running vms 7.1 on an alphaserver 800 5/333 and i have written aF > com file, cd.com,  that dynamically changes my prompt to the currentH > working directory.  as i get deeper into a directory tree, i sometimes& > receive the following error message. >i% > $3$DRA2:.SASAPPS.TOOLS]cd utilitiesi9 > %DCL-E-STRTOOLNG, string argument is too long - shortenh! > $3$DRA2:.SASAPPS.TOOLS]show defo0 >   LARDAT2DISK:[000000.SASAPPS.TOOLS.UTILITIES] > A > is there a length limit to the prompt value?  is there a way tot > increase the value?3 >m	 > thanks,  >t > nick   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:21:05 GMTa( From: "Rick Peters" <rick@morexdata.com>& Subject: Re: VS3100 & (dead?) ST51080N= Message-ID: <5kY77.198253$W02.3296012@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>   H Either use 5.5-2 or 6.X ; 5.5-2H anything has problems with generic SCSI+ disks. Just ran into that with other disks.M5 "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote in messageb% news:9jm94d$o9i@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk...g >e0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKELMDAAA.tom@kednos.com...i >oI > > On the other hand, this drive is only 1 GB, and as such qualifies fore
 the dust bin.n > K > Hmm, that's a matter of opinion, for a system that must be 10+ years old.-G > 1GB is the maximum size for a boot disk on that model, and 9GB drivesm+ > can't be used at all on that VMS version.j >:! > > You sure it isn't the driver?s >-E > It *is* the driver. Or at least the driver won't play with the disknB > with factory settings. Please let us not rehash the generic SCSI > support debate again.- > = > A more recent VMS would probably support the disk but might . > strain the limited resources of the machine. >t >M   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jul 2001 06:40 CDTA' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e, Subject: Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?- Message-ID: <26JUL200106403385@gerg.tamu.edu>h  ( jobseekerr@aol.comNoSpam (Dan) writes... }You'd probably like Perl;  . }maybe consider work as a serious Perl Hacker? }  }  } = }Thank you for your perls of wisdom, I'll take a peek at it. u }  }Dan  E I would he said the opposite: if you like DCL you probably won't likerG Perl very much. (You may like what it can do, but not how it goes abouti
 doing it.)  G Another good possibility is Python. It may, or may not, be more to youra liking than Perl.o  E Then again, if you can do what you want to do in DCL then DCL is just E fine. It's only when you can't do it in DCL, have to jump through way7J too many hoops to do it in DCL, or need better performance then you shouldF be concerned about using DCL. It may not be cutting edge, but it often works more than well enough.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:33:02 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>a, Subject: Re: What's a DCL kind of guy to do?+ Message-ID: <3B601C0D.DEDFD1C4@hsc.vcu.edu>e  H That's true, Perl can do what DCL can do, but what's your platform??  MyK humble point of view is that if you do the code in Perl, then you can carryuL your scripts to any platform you desire...  My last 10 FORTRAN programs haveE been written on a pc for no other reason than to ensure portablity...,   jima   Carl Perkins wrote:   * > jobseekerr@aol.comNoSpam (Dan) writes... > }You'd probably like Perl;0 > }maybe consider work as a serious Perl Hacker? > }Y > }t > }H> > }Thank you for your perls of wisdom, I'll take a peek at it. > }n > }Dan > G > I would he said the opposite: if you like DCL you probably won't likeoI > Perl very much. (You may like what it can do, but not how it goes abouti > doing it.) >oI > Another good possibility is Python. It may, or may not, be more to yourw > liking than Perl.  >.G > Then again, if you can do what you want to do in DCL then DCL is justeG > fine. It's only when you can't do it in DCL, have to jump through waytL > too many hoops to do it in DCL, or need better performance then you shouldH > be concerned about using DCL. It may not be cutting edge, but it often > works more than well enough. > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 02:48:02 -0700* From: bob.knowles@compaq.com (Bob Knowles)6 Subject: Re: [DWMOTIF V1.2-6] VAX EURO patch missing ?= Message-ID: <da08649c.0107260148.388db13a@posting.google.com>v  \ eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<3b5e828a$1@news.kapsch.co.at>...a > In article <3B5E818D.22A9BDE@digital.com>, Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> writes:h > >TryG > >http://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/axp/v7.3/decwindows/motif/a > 0 > Sorry, wrong answer. The question was for VAX.; > I've the Alpha version in use for a couple of time now...h  A The VAX patch is available "via DSNlink" - I don't know what thath means, but support people will.    ba   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.412 ************************