1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 27 Jul 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 413       Contents: Re: "IF", was: checksum  Re: absolute beginner ( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate( Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate% Re: Change account password using web % Re: Change account password using web G Re: Cluster comms over fc, was Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?  Re: Compaq's Q2 financials Re: Compaq's Q2 financials Re: Compaq's Q2 financials Re: Compaq's Q2 financials CSA  [was LPs on the Web]  Don't blink A Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mail (VMS Mail V7.3 ECO)  firmware for SCSI disks ?? Re: firmware for SCSI disks ??) Re: FTP Listing without Version Number??? ) Re: FTP Listing without Version Number??? ) Re: FTP Listing without Version Number??? ) Re: FTP Listing without Version Number???  Help, Signoff ...  Re: Help, Signoff ...  Re: Help, Signoff ...  Re: Help, Signoff ... ) how to write sys$output without linefeed? - Re: how to write sys$output without linefeed? - Re: how to write sys$output without linefeed? - Re: how to write sys$output without linefeed? - Re: how to write sys$output without linefeed? ( Re: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords? Re: IA64 Rocks My World : Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS): Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)% Re: ISSG down far, far more than BCSG % Re: ISSG down far, far more than BCSG P Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS MP Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS M* Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMS Re: LPs on the Web Re: LPs on the Web: Re: Maynard Mill (was: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History)...)? MMS$TARGET contains MMS$CMS_LIBRARY when source is CMS element. - Re: Need help with rsh from Sun to OpenVMS... ? Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....) ? Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....) $ Re: Selling VMS to another company ?$ Re: Selling VMS to another company ? Sixels( Re: Suggestion for IPF standalone backup( Re: Suggestion for IPF standalone backup" Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base" Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base TCPIP and 2 IP addresses  VAX Fortran and Visual Fortran ?$ Re: VAX Fortran and Visual Fortran ?$ Re: VAX Fortran and Visual Fortran ?. Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problem. Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problem. Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problem Re: VMS Prompt value RE: VMS Prompt value Re: VMS Prompt value, Re: VMS remains secure at DEFCON hacker fest Who does migration from VMS?  Re: Who does migration from VMS?  Re: Who does migration from VMS?  Re: Who does migration from VMS?  Re: Who does migration from VMS?  Re: Who does migration from VMS? Re: Zero Quadword Time Poll   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:14:26 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>  Subject: Re: "IF", was: checksum& Message-ID: <3B606C13.707AAB49@gmx.ch>  " "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" wrote: >  ../.. ) >  Do not flame my procedures, please -;)   * I replied to you via private mail already.1 There was an error, I was talking to Mark Daniel.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:16:26 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: absolute beginner& Message-ID: <3B606C8A.41F87B90@gmx.ch>   Luca Balzano wrote:  > 	 > Hi all,  > K > it is a lot that I want to put my hands on a Vax machine, last week I had M > the opportunity to get a vaxstation 3100 for a very cheap price and now I'm H > trying to understand how to get an hobbyist (cheap) release/license ofI > OpenVMS. Somebody told me that since I live in Italy this could be more  > difficult. >  > anyone can help? >  > thank you  >  > Luca > , > antispam: my addr is balzano(at)iol(dot)it  ) http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem/home.htm    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:58:23 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate * Message-ID: <3B60765F.27393BB5@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > H > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:54:28 -0400, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> > wrote: > $ > >On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, jlsue wrote: > >  > >>J > >> Exactly what committments are you talking about?  Certainly you don'tJ > >> mean the Alpha Roadmap?  Roadmaps certainly aren't to be construed asK > >> something to be  followed come-hell-or-highwater.  If business climate H > >> changes enough, then the company must do something else in order to
 > >> survive.  > >>	 > ><snip>  > >>I > >> But in no way did I ever see any committment to any long-term future K > >> for Alpha.  And, in the real world, I don't expect that you'd ever see I > >> such a committment that you could really depend upon.  It just isn't / > >> possible in the business world to do that.  > > A > >And yet, when people here apply the same logic to VMS they get ( > >accused of spreading FUD.  Go figure. > E > This is only true to a point.  Surely *all* vendors of all products D > can choose to cease making any products that aren't delivering theF > level of profit they need.  It's a Econ 101 idea:  Opportunity cost.C > The cost of doing "X" includes the cost (loss?) of not doing "Y". - > When you add it all up, is it all worth it?  > ? > The difference between this and FUD is that a competitor uses H > under-handed methods to convince potential customers that this is whatG > their current vendor will do to them.  It assumes that the competitor E > actually knows what the other vendor will decide to do.  Basically, F > it's a lie because the competitor knows that it could be in the sameA > boat in the unforeseeable future over the product that they are  > competing with.  >   ; Good joke in this case. How would you describe a vendor who = has used underhand methods including being slightly cavalier  < with the truth to convince you to keep buying their product.  8 If FUD is telling the truth about the inadequacies of a ; competitors product and in this case anti-FUD as practiced  8 by various posters to this group is telling what turned 7 out to be untruthes about capabilites and prospects of  8 Compaqs products then call me a FUDSTER any day at least I will sleep at night.  C > The funny thing is, when HP, IBM, etc. announced awhile back that A > they'd be switching to IA64 (this was before the long delays of D > delivering merced systems forced them to reevaluate), they weren'tF > seen as breaking any committments.  But somehow Compaq is being heldF > to a different standard by these competitors.  Yep, that's FUD in my > book.   F Rubbish, IBM have made no such statement. IBM's Intel server division C (Sequent + Netinfinity) have said that they will be producing IA-64 F based boxes (its a logical followon from IA-32 based systems. None of A IBM's other product ranges have made any such statement. You are  = doing it again, being cavalier with the truth, as always you  7 would be better off checking your facts before posting.    Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:54:27 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate ' Message-ID: <3B60C9D3.28B0FDA7@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > J Ahlstrom wrote: A > > or their intentions to put their money where it woule produce B > > the most return.  Which, I believe, Compaq as a non-non-profit% > > company is required by law to do.  > O > I am not sure that a company is required by law to generate profits. Airlines P > would all be in prison if that were the case, so would Nortel, Lucent, Compaq,- > and off course all dot.com shell companies.   G I think that's known as a fiduciary duty. It is a matter of law, AFAIK, = FWIW; however, the burden of proof would be on the plaintiff.   K > Secondly, while there is an expection of eventual profits, I beleive that M > corporations are given a certain degree of latitude to build on a long term - > profit at the expense of short term losses.   E Trouble is, most companies get that backward - they taking short term A savings at the expense of increased costs in the longer term. Try + selling *THAT* to a bean-counter, though...   C As for Compaq controlling VMS attrition, they didn't just kick that F hornets' nest, they put it in a machine normally used to shake cans of  paint before you take them home.  H ...or to use a different metaphor, they had just about plugged the leaksH in that dam, but now they've bombed the flood gates and have obliterated= them, setting an uncontrollable torrent loose to wreak havoc.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:08:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 1 Subject: Re: Alpha:  an invitation to communicate , Message-ID: <3B60CD2E.8FF40828@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:E > As for Compaq controlling VMS attrition, they didn't just kick that H > hornets' nest, they put it in a machine normally used to shake cans of" > paint before you take them home. > J > ...or to use a different metaphor, they had just about plugged the leaksJ > in that dam, but now they've bombed the flood gates and have obliterated? > them, setting an uncontrollable torrent loose to wreak havoc.   M VMS sales were going down. VMS got a token amount of marketing which resulted K in growth. Compaq now has some metric to use to control VMS marketplace. It R knows how much marketing is needed to generate sales and stop/reduce the bleeding.  J Now that Compaq knows how to use Band Aids, it doesn't have to worry aboutL using a knife to generate wounds to VMS because it can apply Band Aids after having weilded the knife.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:02:35 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>. Subject: Re: Change account password using web& Message-ID: <3B60775C.FB1DD9D3@gmx.ch>   Thomas Steuver wrote:  > J > We have Alpha OpenVMS 7.2-1 running Multinet 4.3 and the OSU web server.M > Does anyone have a secure way to change an OpenVMS account password using a J > web page that is on another server?  We need a way to have the other webN > server send a packet of account information so the OpenVMS system can change > the password.   E Well, it depends what you mean with secure and if you want to use SET , PASSWORD or UAF> mod FOO/passw=BAR/nopwdexp.  H If you wish no security at all, you write a DCL procedure which builds aD form in which you ask for the username and the password, you POST itG when the user clicks EXECUTE, then you change the password when you are C back to DCL, with some DCL controls (user existence, authorization,  etc).   E If you use the DCL syntax, you have the risk to find this password in G the dictionary, and you'll have to deal with a dialog form (good luck). F I'd rather use the UAF> way. It also allows passwords with any length.  E If you wish security, you will have to encrypt the password (strongly E recommended, NEVER EVER SEND a touchy password in plain text over the C Internet) then decrypt it with the DCL script. Good luck again, the ; algorithm should be the same on the MAC (or PC) and on VMS.    My 2    D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:35:01 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: Change account password using web1 Message-ID: <92087.194$Yx2.3543@news.cpqcorp.net>   Z In article <tm0hackrov06c3@corp.supernews.com>, "Thomas Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu> writes:I :We have Alpha OpenVMS 7.2-1 running Multinet 4.3 and the OSU web server. L :Does anyone have a secure way to change an OpenVMS account password using aI :web page that is on another server?  We need a way to have the other web M :server send a packet of account information so the OpenVMS system can change  :the password.  H   I'll assume you want a secure way to set the password of an arbitrary F   user, since adding a form and a CGI script in front of the existing !   SET PASSWORD command is simple.   I   Probably the easiest approach would be to use the domain authentication I   mechanism, and the ability to distribute the passwords.  Kerberos (V7.3 %   and later) would be another option.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 14:12:17 -0700/ From: benk@troikanetworks.com (Benjamin F. Kuo) P Subject: Re: Cluster comms over fc, was Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?= Message-ID: <8cdc7646.0107261312.1af10cf8@posting.google.com>   4 kparris@my-deja.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message H > In a more-recent development, another FC adapter vendor has reportedlyE > announced a FC adapter that supports VIA.  The VI Architecture (see D > http://viarch.org) looks like it can support the types of reliableF > cluster communications capabilities we have come to know and love inC > SCS.  Although VIA has been implemented on a variety of hardware, C > including common LANs, with a mix of software and hardware in the B > implementation, VIA can also be implemented entirely in hardware  > (ServerNet II is one example). >   F VI over Fibre Channel supports RDMA read and write (reliable transfer)E designed specifically for cluster communications. My employer (TROIKA D Networks) currently has a VI-capable Fibre Channel adapter which ourD customers are using exactly for host to host communications, in someE cases as replacements for older cluster interconnects like ServerNet. ? Our Zentai adapters are fully hardware assisted (no software in A datapath once transfers are posted) for VI communications. We are D shipping hardware now and our competitors (Emulex, Qlogic) also have> announced VI support. However, we don't currently support VMS.  C IP over Fibre Channel is also a feasible interconnect option, which A may vendors have implemented for host to host communications over D Fibre Channel. This is an agreed-upon standard which can be used forD hosts to talk to others on Fibre Channel, and is widely supported on other platforms.   Benjamin Kuo3 (Opinions above are my own and not of my employer).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:48:09 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> # Subject: Re: Compaq's Q2 financials , Message-ID: <3B6073ED.94274FE2@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:J > Now Compaq's half year losses are $287 million, or only $50 million moreC > than the PC group and what's more that $287 million loss includes C > "restructuring" charges of $742 million.  If we could dump the PC G > division, Compaq should be in a better financial position.  Save justk? > one tenth of the restructuring money and they'd be in profit.i  N If you beleive that the future is in the wintel business, then you can't flushH your unprofitable wintel business down the toilet just because its isn't profitable at the moment.o  N If you do not believe that VMS has a long term future, then you'd be stupid to bet all your business on VMS.s  M And if you beleive that you cannot even think of competing against Microsoft,bM then any product that needs to compete against Microsoft cannot be consideredE as a core product.  K The fact that Mr Wintel (Winkler) who is decidedly pro-Microsoft/NT will beuF (or is already) in charge of VMS doesn't augur well. And the fact thatM Capellas didn't demote Winkler after his public statements that Nt would rulenL the world means that Capellas agrees with Winkler or that Winkler is already& more powerful at Compaq than Capellas.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:31:03 -0400s' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>i# Subject: Re: Compaq's Q2 financials ( Message-ID: <9jpudi$jsc$1@pyrite.mv.net>  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in messagec$ news:3B605138.2340F42A@dplanet.ch...   ...   J > The catch is of course that laying off the entire PC division would costH > an absolute fortune in retrenchments, broken contracts with suppliers,E > buildings no longer required etc, etc, etc.  The total losses would 6 > probably be far greater than what we are seeing now. >  > It looks like ...oH > Compaq's PC division - can't afford to live with them, can't afford to > live without them !S  I As I commented elsewhere, IBM seems to have found a good solution:  pricenL their PCs to support themselves (and perhaps return at least a small profit)L and stop trying to dominate that particular market segment (because all they@ need to do is provide them as a convenience to their customers).  K Too bad Capellas didn't incorporate this insight in his expressed desire toe become more like IBM.    - bill   >e >l
 > John McLeans   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:37:28 GMTd  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com># Subject: Re: Compaq's Q2 financials 8 Message-ID: <8nn1mtk4htsbuldqrjfk29bnb7tvb911at@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:12:08 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>s wrote:     >nK >For example, for the Enterprise Computing segment in Q1 it was stated thateI >"Revenue benefited from strong growth in external storage and enterprise L >software sales resulting from continued customer acceptance of Storage AreaI >Networks" - areas far more often associated with higher-end systems thandK >with 'industry-standard' servers - while "Such growth was offset primarily L >by lower revenue from industry standard servers as the economic slowdown inM >the United States led to lower technology spending and a competitive pricingrL >environment".  And on the Enterprise Computing income front the Q1 documentL >reported that "A favorable shift in mix to higher margin enterprise storageG >products was more than offset by an aggressive pricing environment forr1 >industry standard servers in the United States".   ; Just FYI:  We do a *lot* of SAN implementations in strictlys@ "industry-standard" server environments.  When folks have dozens? (sometimes hundreds) of Windows servers, they like SANs to help  consolidate the storage.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 00:10:06 -0400g' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>f# Subject: Re: Compaq's Q2 financials ( Message-ID: <9jqpk6$f34$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote in messagea2 news:8nn1mtk4htsbuldqrjfk29bnb7tvb911at@4ax.com...G > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:12:08 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>e > wrote: >  >1 > >4H > >For example, for the Enterprise Computing segment in Q1 it was stated thatK > >"Revenue benefited from strong growth in external storage and enterprisesI > >software sales resulting from continued customer acceptance of Storagel AreaK > >Networks" - areas far more often associated with higher-end systems thaniC > >with 'industry-standard' servers - while "Such growth was offset1	 primarily0K > >by lower revenue from industry standard servers as the economic slowdowni inG > >the United States led to lower technology spending and a competitivei pricing E > >environment".  And on the Enterprise Computing income front the Q1  documentF > >reported that "A favorable shift in mix to higher margin enterprise storagerI > >products was more than offset by an aggressive pricing environment forn3 > >industry standard servers in the United States".  >l= > Just FYI:  We do a *lot* of SAN implementations in strictlyoB > "industry-standard" server environments.  When folks have dozensA > (sometimes hundreds) of Windows servers, they like SANs to help- > consolidate the storage.  C If you're ready to provide comparative numbers, by all means do so.uI Meanwhile, Alan Greig's report of the Webcast appears to substantiate the6E inferences I drew previously (I'll try to find time to check that out0 myself).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:37:04 -0400r* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>" Subject: CSA  [was LPs on the Web]/ Message-ID: <3B60A9A0.28541.10D0D76A@localhost>a  + On 26 Jul 2001, at 3:01, John Santos wrote:mI > Hmmm.  If you are eligible and can join CSA (~$100-$150/year), then youcG > can get the VMS and/or Tru64 CD distributions (LP+DOCs 4 times a yearsH > plus current O/S kit + any new O/S releases) for about $500/year.  Say. > one VMS kit + 4 LP kits for about $100 each.  ; Actually, joining CSA is $600 per year.  Assuming that the  F distribution subscriptions are $500 per year for CSA members, joining  would make sense.   E Unfortunately, I've received no response to my email to Compaq about pA the cost of the distribution subscriptions for CSA members, so I o don't know if I should join.     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671h1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147e= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:31:49 -0500p1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>n Subject: Don't blink8 Message-ID: <9jpr70$6k4$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  K For those who don't know, Jeff Harrow of RCFoC fame is no longer w/ Compaq.   I His last writing for Compaq can be found at: http://www.compaq.com/rcfoc/i   Sorry to see him go.   Dave...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:34:57 +0200n, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>J Subject: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mail (VMS Mail V7.3 ECO)& Message-ID: <3B6070E2.486903BE@gmx.ch>   Didier Morandi wrote:h >  > How is Ken Olsen going?t   Yes, how is he going?y What's the name of his company?e Does he have a WEB site?   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:36:54 GMT  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl># Subject: firmware for SCSI disks ?? ' Message-ID: <3B608D65.D7B5E00D@home.nl>   G Can anyone give me a URL where to find firmware for Digital/Compaq SCSIp disks ?.  H I am building new raid sets etc. and would like to have all disks at the same firmware level.  G I noticed that there are 2 versions of the DS-RZ1EA-VW 18.2 GB/7200 rpmcH drives. The HSZ raid controller tells me that one type is RZ1... and the: other is a RZ2EL version. The RZ2 is much faster it seems.  1 Has anyone more information about both versions ?k   Regards,   Dirk   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Jul 2001 00:30:58 GMT' From: prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN) ' Subject: Re: firmware for SCSI disks ??c: Message-ID: <20010726203058.05028.00002337@ng-fi1.aol.com>  A >The HSZ raid controller tells me that one type is RZ1... and then; >other is a RZ2EL version. The RZ2 is much faster it seems.t > 2 >Has anyone more information about both versions ? >n  H Anything with a RZ2 is relatively rare and whizzy. - they are late modelJ digital/compaq SBBs with a (theoretical) 80mb transfer rate. Pity that busO cannot keep up. Idea might be to search alta vista with that very specific part N number. I usually find that obscure references live on in non-compaq sites forO years after compaq wipe out the quickspecs. Also the HS controller pages alwaysr list disk support:    + tip: RZ1C/D/E/F C/D/E/F=size (2/4/9/19/36) i   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 12:36:52 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org2 Subject: Re: FTP Listing without Version Number???3 Message-ID: <s1W0QTtbr+8Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  P In article <3B601E79.13B4DC25@cha.ab.ca>, Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> writes:0 > $ dir my.file /size/date/select=file=noversion  1 FTP> dir my.file /size/date/select=file=noversion M /size/date/select=file=noversion: %RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax errorg FTP>    
 Instead, try:l  	 FTP> cd /i FTP> dir  D Works on some FTP servers to trigger a switch to Unix emulation mode3 within which versions are automatically suppressed.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:10:47 -0600e$ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca>2 Subject: Re: FTP Listing without Version Number???) Message-ID: <3B606B37.E2CDD50A@cha.ab.ca>e  % Sorry, I misunderstood your question.aF If you're running TCPWARE 5.5-3, you have to set the logical to remove the version number.u  4 $ DEFINE /SYSTEM /EXEC  TCPWARE_FTP_ALL_VERSIONS  NO  
 andaro wrote:    > Hello, >oE >  is it possible to do a FTP Listing on VMS without having all thosec- > version numbers attached to the file names?  >t > Thanks > Chris/   -- Leei  ; Lee Y T Mah                        Capital Health Authorityd? Email: lytmah@cha.ab.ca            Information Systems, RAH CSCo4 Phone:  (780) 477-4725, 477-4233   10240 Kingsway NW? Fax:      (780) 491-5119, 491-5619    Edmonton, AB, CAN  T5H3V9    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:52:35 +0200o, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>2 Subject: Re: FTP Listing without Version Number???% Message-ID: <3B607504.E87CE95@gmx.ch>.  
 andaro wrote:: >  > Hello, > E >  is it possible to do a FTP Listing on VMS without having all thoseD- > version numbers attached to the file names?o   What are we talking about here?s  H FTP is a program to execute remote commands on a remote system according) to the architecture of the remote system.m  H If you want a files listing of a VMS disk, you'll get a files listing ofC a VMS disk, ie with version numbers, and if there are more than oneeB version, you will get what the remote system has, ie more than oneC version. Of course, if you created the VMS directory with a versionrA limit of 1, the version number is no more relevant, but this wille! probably not be the general case.n  H If you upload files from a VMS system to a Mac (or PC), you will have toD change these names, but anyway you need to do so on a PC as the .COMG will start DOS when trying to open them (The Mac, smartly, will ask youy* with which program you want to open it :-)   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 16:06:55 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org2 Subject: Re: FTP Listing without Version Number???3 Message-ID: <8Tan9lt1decd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3B607504.E87CE95@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes: > andaro wrote:  >> a	 >> Hello,a >> rF >>  is it possible to do a FTP Listing on VMS without having all those. >> version numbers attached to the file names? > ! > What are we talking about here?o > J > FTP is a program to execute remote commands on a remote system according+ > to the architecture of the remote system.a  I FTP is a protocol which enables a client to access files on a cooperatingo server.  See RFC 959.r  J > If you want a files listing of a VMS disk, you'll get a files listing of& > a VMS disk, ie with version numbers,  E What you'll get is what the client displays to you.  Which is usually,G what the server presents to it.  Which may or may not correspond to theuF set of files and names that would be presented to a local user running the $ DIRECTORY command.  K Indeed, the default case with my client and my server (both running on VMS)a is to suppress version numbers.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:36:48 -0400R2 From: "Yan, Antony" <Antony.Yan@honeywell-tsi.com> Subject: Help, Signoff ...Q Message-ID: <FDEC6E96D16AD3119C1A00508B0BBA1201DE7526@lskex100.honeywell-tsi.com>    Hi, All:   I was trying to signoff from this list from INFO-VAX-request@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <mailto:INFO-VAX-request@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>  but not able to find my reference name from list owner side.  E Anyone can help me which e-mail I should use to send SIGNOFF command?t   Thanks,c Tony   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:51:49 -0300e) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn Subject: Re: Help, Signoff ...L Message-ID: <OF1BA19DB8.FAFF0441-ON03256A95.0067632E@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  < Click in the FAQs homepage. There are instructions there....  < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html#INTRO3     Regardsa   F=E1bio Cardoso.          C "Yan, Antony" <Antony.Yan@honeywell-tsi.com> em 26/07/2001 15:36:48   > Favor responder a "Yan, Antony" <Antony.Yan@honeywell-tsi.com>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come       Assunto: Help, Signoff ...     Hi, All:  + I was trying to signoff from this list fromaH INFO-VAX-request@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <mailto:INFO-VAX-request@LISTSERV.UGA= EDUd? >  but not able to find my reference name from list owner side.tE Anyone can help me which e-mail I should use to send SIGNOFF command?t   Thanks,F Tony         =.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:43:18 -0400-+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>  Subject: Re: Help, Signoff ...# Message-ID: <sb602c88.004@aaas.org>-    Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com=20  $ Or check the info in the OpenVMS FAQ  J >>> "Yan, Antony" <Antony.Yan@honeywell-tsi.com> 07/26/2001 2:36:48 PM >>> Hi, All:  L I was trying to signoff from this list from INFO-VAX-request@LISTSERV.UGA.E=H DU <mailto:INFO-VAX-request@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>  but not able to find my =( reference name from list owner side. =20E Anyone can help me which e-mail I should use to send SIGNOFF command?r   Thanks,( Tony   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:37:02 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Help, Signoff ...1 Message-ID: <24087.195$Yx2.3509@news.cpqcorp.net>    In article <FDEC6E96D16AD3119C1A00508B0BBA1201DE7526@lskex100.honeywell-tsi.com>, "Yan, Antony" <Antony.Yan@honeywell-tsi.com> writes:  H :I was trying to signoff from this list from INFO-VAX...but not able to / :find my reference name from list owner side.  eF :Anyone can help me which e-mail I should use to send SIGNOFF command?  H   The FAQ has pointers to INFO-VAX contact information, if you're stuck.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:46:21 GMT 2 From: "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us>2 Subject: how to write sys$output without linefeed?3 Message-ID: <1AZ77.296$S11.38758@news-west.eli.net>   E I want to send a character string to sys$output without a terminating I linefeed, which WRITE SYS$OUTPUT always appends.  I looked at F$FAO but IKE don't see how to tell it to suppress the terminating linefeed either.-  , Anyone know a quick & simple way to do this?   -Frank Brown http://www.inwa.net/~frog/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:16:09 -0400E0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca.spammenot>6 Subject: Re: how to write sys$output without linefeed?5 Message-ID: <i%Z77.48944$TW.242549@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>h   Nope.iE Why not keep everything in a symbol until you're ready to display it? = Or else, if it goes on the screen, use escape sequences like:n string1 + esc + "7"e esc + "8" + string2 + esc + "7"c	 etc. etc.y  K From memory I think that's it. esc + 7 = save cursor position, 8 = restore.u   --   Syltremc; http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site)     J "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> a crit dans le message news:( 1AZ77.296$S11.38758@news-west.eli.net...G > I want to send a character string to sys$output without a terminating K > linefeed, which WRITE SYS$OUTPUT always appends.  I looked at F$FAO but IdG > don't see how to tell it to suppress the terminating linefeed either.  >h. > Anyone know a quick & simple way to do this? >o > -Frank Brown > http://www.inwa.net/~frog/ >  >V   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 16:00:18 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org6 Subject: Re: how to write sys$output without linefeed?3 Message-ID: <t1HL4gpaD9js@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  h In article <1AZ77.296$S11.38758@news-west.eli.net>, "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> writes:G > I want to send a character string to sys$output without a terminating K > linefeed, which WRITE SYS$OUTPUT always appends.  I looked at F$FAO but IcG > don't see how to tell it to suppress the terminating linefeed either.h > . > Anyone know a quick & simple way to do this?   I know of two approaches.l  9 $ read /prompt="asdf" /error=one /timeout=0 sys$output a , $ one:
 $ wait 0:0:10 8 $ read /prompt="fdsa" /error=two /timeout=0 sys$output b $ two:    K $ pipe write sys$output "asdf" | convert sys$input sys$output /fdl=test.fdliK $ pipe write sys$Output "fdsa" | convert sys$input sys$output /fdl=test.fdl   
 (TEST.FDL) record carriage_control noneh   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:06:05 +0200r, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>6 Subject: Re: how to write sys$output without linefeed?& Message-ID: <3B60782E.2F2B800D@gmx.ch>   frank brown wrote: > G > I want to send a character string to sys$output without a terminatingxK > linefeed, which WRITE SYS$OUTPUT always appends.  I looked at F$FAO but IsG > don't see how to tell it to suppress the terminating linefeed either.d > . > Anyone know a quick & simple way to do this?  	 From DCL?n To your terminal?  Why?   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:05:22 -0500l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r6 Subject: Re: how to write sys$output without linefeed?' Message-ID: <3B60DA72.3A7951AA@fsi.net>m   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:a > j > In article <1AZ77.296$S11.38758@news-west.eli.net>, "frank brown" <frank.brown@ci.seattle.wa.us> writes:I > > I want to send a character string to sys$output without a terminatingtM > > linefeed, which WRITE SYS$OUTPUT always appends.  I looked at F$FAO but IrI > > don't see how to tell it to suppress the terminating linefeed either.s > >t0 > > Anyone know a quick & simple way to do this? >  > I know of two approaches.E > : > $ read /prompt="asdf" /error=one /timeout=0 sys$output a > $ one: > $ wait 0:0:10t: > $ read /prompt="fdsa" /error=two /timeout=0 sys$output b > $ two:  C The caveat for /TIMEOUT is that it only works for terminal devices;h  otherwise, it will hang forever.   -- * David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.z   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:28:19 GMT.2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: How2 DECnet-copy with two passwords?41 Message-ID: <nb_77.183$Yx2.3527@news.cpqcorp.net>e  \ In article <QlHkfAL+qtLD@ludens>, holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs) writes:  9 :  Maybe a "tipical user question": how can I decnet-copye< :  files, when I don't have decnet-proxy on the target node,' :  and have not one, but two passwords?t  @   This is deliberately locked out, since the whole point of the ?   two-password login is to avoid having any one user know both r   passwords to the login.w  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:50:05 +0100t0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 Rocks My World) Message-ID: <3B60746D.6B00739@uk.sun.com>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: > 	 > Andrew,, > N > >>> Remember you have a collegue Kerry Maine posting to this group who wouldA > like us to beleive that OPS is in reality just Oracle with moree > reliability.<<<  > I > Please do not try to state things I have never stated. Very poor taste.m >   8 Really, I think you know perfectly well that my response8 is an accurate summary of your points. It isn't exactly ; what you said however it accurately reflects what you have s been trotting out.  J > Again, if you (or anyone else for that matter) do not agree with the TPCF > Council as to what a real mans TPC benchmark should be, then get the > benchmark rules changed. > A > Don't continue to cry foul or call it a loophole or whatever...c >   0 Why ?? It cannot be described as anything else.   4 On second thoughts, if you stop claiming that its a 1 perfectly normal tuning procedure with the added n5 benefit of providing HA (though you didn't configure e7 it that way) then I am perfectly happy to stop calling t it a loophole.  9 At the moment you are in the classic childhood possition  9 of wanting to have all the benefits without being capable'9 of accepting the dis-benefits that come with the package.      RegardsE Andrew Harrison- Enterprise IT Architect8   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:17:33 -0400s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>-C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)r1 Message-ID: <g2_77.180$Yx2.3462@news.cpqcorp.net>u  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3B6051A3.D03C4719@videotron.ca>...a >mulp wrote:I >> The boot block is included in the ODS1/2/5 file structure.  The MBR is K >> outside the set of partitions on the device and is therefore outside thei >> filestructure.m >.J >But to the console, if it read block 0 of a disk drive, it doesn't matter if7 >that block is part of a file structure or not. Right ?u >cJ >The *contents* of the boot block would know the basics of the file system soI >it can go fetch the first file in the boot sequence, but by the time thesH >*contents* of the boot lblock are executed, isn't that already past the >jurisdiction of the console ? >-F >Isn't the role of the console to fetch the boot block and execute its contents# >making available some paremeters ?o  I You are making some huge leaps.  Just because something has been done one 0 way, doesn't mean that is the only way to do it.  L What you are clinging to is boot-block booting, which in some cases the bootD block contains the actual code that knows how to pull in the primaryG bootstrap, or which in some systems may simply provide a pointer to the G primary bootstrap which the console uses to locate the image, and readsZG *that* in.  For instance the Alpha bootblock points to start of APB.EXEi  K In the EFI case, the ROM based code understands how to look at a disk for a0L partition record (in the case we will use, it will be a MBR layout, but onlyJ the partition information is important, the *contents* are *not* executed,H as would happen for bootblock booting).  It then knows how to find a FATJ formatted partition with a OS type of 0xEF, and it knows how to read a FATL directory structure and find named files - like OS_LOADER.  The OS Loader isI effectively the primary bootstrap for the OS.  The OS Loader knows how tohJ look at the disk as an ODS-2/5 volume, and how to read in the next part of the bootstrap.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 15:39:04 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)oC Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)i3 Message-ID: <HtDgYz+ulZQN@eisner.encompasserve.org>/  i In article <5OV77.169$Yx2.3341@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:e  N > No.  The console looks for a structure at the start of the disk to determineN > if it is a "legacy" PC MBR, a new EFI defined partitioning record, or an ISO > 9660 CD format.b  D Wouldn't it be better, then, to base the VMS booting on the ISO 9660D format, since that leaves block 0 free, as I recall, for booting VMS on other platforms ?  B I realize that booting two VMS architectures from the same disk isA not currently supported, but it seems better not to prevent it ini the basic format decisions.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:10:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)i, Message-ID: <3B60873A.A4C78E7C@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > as would happen for bootblock booting).  It then knows how to find a FATL > formatted partition with a OS type of 0xEF, and it knows how to read a FAT= > directory structure and find named files - like OS_LOADER.      L Are you saying that the IA64 console has enough intimate knowledge of NT and2 DOS file systems, to go fetch a *file* on a disk ?  J Does IA64 have some affinity to boot from a files on HP's proprietary Unix system as well ?  M Did Microsoft participate in the design of the IA64 ? If not, why would Intel3L have embedded code in the console to know about Microsoft's proprietary file structure ?-  P I am curious about what would seem to be a big bias towards NT on the IA64 chip.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:54:08 -0500N% From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mcs.net>@C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS) 5 Message-ID: <4F487.18169$j02.268504@news.goodnet.com>o   Hoff, thanks for responding.  E Hoff Hoffman wrote in message <42D77.93$Yx2.2617@news.cpqcorp.net>... > >In article <cc5619f2.0107250647.7a7986fb@posting.google.com>,( jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:E >:     are we going to be "stuck with" a graphics only console?   ...  >wD >  It appears that both serial and graphics can be made to function,E >  and we will likely need to get a serial console working during the E >  debug.  If we use USB, there will be restrictions around switchingoH >  from a running OpenVMS system back to the console and then attemptingI >  to continue OpenVMS -- that very likely won't work.  (No HALT and thenh >  CONTINUE, in other words.)     L I recall your earlier posts on this matter.  I will reiterate my request andG requirement for a true serial console device being available; USB is ok E as an option, but unless the q is going to make LK411/LK461 style usb0I keyboards, I'll stick with a VT :)  The restrictions imposed by USB wouldtD have an impact based on our current usage, but only a minor one (sayC once or twice a year where we have to do something from the consolerJ without rebooting).  Note that you'll have to give us a new way to force a  system crash in that case too...   > ...aF >  Be forewarned that if you want to delve into Microsoft Windows DataD >  Center tools (Windows NT, 2000, etc, do not run on IPF) to try toG >  partition disks, the tools might or might not be compatible with them9 >  tools and disk structures and expectations of OpenVMS.  >e    J Believe me... not an issue.  If I have to play with peecee partitions I'll wait0 for both the absolute need and the proper tools.  ' > ---------------------------- #includeu' <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------uK >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.como+ > --------------------------- pure personal # opinion ---------------------------n0 >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:59:23 -0500g% From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mcs.net> C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)a5 Message-ID: <%J487.18170$j02.268367@news.goodnet.com>g  $ Fred Kleinsorge wrote in message ...! >Rich Jordan wrote in message ... B >>"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, >news:<x2i77.25$Yx2.499@news.cpqcorp.net>... >> >>Fred,.G >>     are we going to be "stuck with" a graphics only console?  Will a $ >>serial console be possible?   .... >> >tK >The EFI specification makes it clear that you can implement a non-graphics $ >console, and have headless booting. >     H Thanks.  Hope a true serial (not USB, though that as an option is ducky) is in our future.B    >>  .....  Or is it likely we'llE >>have to delve into wintel utilities to 'set up' disks/partitions ins >>advance of using VMS?o >> >cI >It's probably too early to tell how this all works.  My guess offhand is I >that a contiguous file would be created for the EFI partition, and a new4I >writeboot would construct and write the MBR.  A utility would then allow L >"files" within the FAT32 "partition" contained in the contiguous file to be >read/written. >i    D Updated PCDISK for FAT32?  :)  And another file for the defragmenter folks to take into account.D   Rich Jordana   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:26:33 GMTw  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>C Subject: Re: IPF Console Bootstrap (was: Re: No chance for OpenVMS)-8 Message-ID: <r2n1mtk3aud0pag34hg4jvlpdts63hqk1f@4ax.com>  F On 25 Jul 2001 07:47:14 -0700, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote:   >gF >     are we going to be "stuck with" a graphics only console?  Will aG >serial console be possible?  Believe it or not, serial consoles are ofw1 >some importance to us and some of our customers.   B Actually, unless you're talking about some kind of console loggingB system (a la Polycenter Console Manager), the Remote Insight BoardE Lights Out Edition provides a really nice remote graphics console for  servers.  D Now, granted it doesn't perform a nicely as a character-cell consoleE since it's throwing all those graphics around... but it's not too bad 
 to work with.z   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:18:24 -04002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c. Subject: Re: ISSG down far, far more than BCSG, Message-ID: <3B605EEA.83FF607D@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:oF > I've just scanned it but I think the figures given were ISSG (Intel)D > sales down 26% compared to same quarter last year and BCSG (Alpha)2 > sales down 13% (mainly due to currency changes).  I But if BCSG yielded profits of 10 million bucks , it would mean that theyyL would now yield 8.7 million. If ISSG yielded profits of 12 million, it would now yield 9 million.    J So a drop of 26% in one area doesn't automatically mean that it now yields less profit.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:24:30 -0400h' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a. Subject: Re: ISSG down far, far more than BCSG( Message-ID: <9jpu1a$jab$1@pyrite.mv.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B605EEA.83FF607D@videotron.ca... > Alan Greig wrote:1H > > I've just scanned it but I think the figures given were ISSG (Intel)F > > sales down 26% compared to same quarter last year and BCSG (Alpha)4 > > sales down 13% (mainly due to currency changes). > K > But if BCSG yielded profits of 10 million bucks , it would mean that theycH > would now yield 8.7 million. If ISSG yielded profits of 12 million, it would- > now yield 9 million. >aL > So a drop of 26% in one area doesn't automatically mean that it now yields > less profit.  I You appear to have missed the accompanying statement that margins in ISSG.K were also very low (presumably in comparison with last year's, since that'si? the context of the other numbers; it's also consistent with the,H industry-standard server 'aggressive pricing environment' Compaq-speak).  L The combination of much lower margins (which could easily have actually beenL in the negative region, if Compaq's other PC business is any indication) andK significantly lower sales has a devastating effect on relative ISSG profit.L That was the suggestion in the Q2 FinancialDiscussion.pdf document, and this appears to confirm it.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:10:58 GMT * From: "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com>Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS M 3 Message-ID: <S2Z77.31$Iw2.586@petpeeve.ziplink.net>/  I >It was nice. I remember my first Christmas at DEC in 1983. We VMS peoplelD  >received two VMS mail containing one a xmas tree with its blinkingI  >candles, and another one with a train choo-choo-ing in circle. All thiscC  >was displayed following the "instructions": type ext/noheader TT:>  >  H I'm pretty sure I have those old files, somewhere...on a Rainbow floppy!  @ IIRC, they were just text files, with embedded escape sequences.       -- Regards,     David Cresseyk     www.dcressey.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:11:01 GMT * From: "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com>Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mt3 Message-ID: <V2Z77.33$Iw2.586@petpeeve.ziplink.net>e  J > I think that Ken Olsen probably got over his loss when Digital ceased toF > exist. From an historical perspective, I think that people will just remember     $ exit 732777964  L As far as the Alpha going to Intel is concerned,  as I read the history, the seeds for that were sown in the2F settlement of the lawsuit between DEC and Intel concerning whether the Pentium infringed on Alpha'sL patent protections.  This is only what I've read.  I wasn't a player in that game.t   -- Regards,     David Cresseyr     www.dcressey.com: "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B6057C7.F6424F48@videotron.ca...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:10:32 -0400 0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca.spammenot>Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mh5 Message-ID: <OVZ77.48940$TW.243007@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>a     $ exit 732777964   I like this one :-).# ...Actually, it's not so funny :-|. 9 not anymore because it's too bad for all of us now... :-(s   --   Syltrem ; http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site)a    B "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com> a crit dans le message news:( V2Z77.33$Iw2.586@petpeeve.ziplink.net...L > > I think that Ken Olsen probably got over his loss when Digital ceased toH > > exist. From an historical perspective, I think that people will just
 > remember >  >   $ exit 732777964 >uJ > As far as the Alpha going to Intel is concerned,  as I read the history, them! > seeds for that were sown in the$H > settlement of the lawsuit between DEC and Intel concerning whether the > Pentium infringed on Alpha'sI > patent protections.  This is only what I've read.  I wasn't a player int that > game.l >n > --
 > Regards, >     David Cressey  >     www.dcressey.com< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3B6057C7.F6424F48@videotron.ca... >o >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:13:46 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>sY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS M,( Message-ID: <9jptda$igu$1@pyrite.mv.net>  G "Simon Clubley" <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> wrote in17 message news:MgU77.7515$ar1.24223@www.newsranger.com...)   ...c  L > The way that I tend to look at this is that the computer industry seems to beF > going through the same stages that other technology such as cars and aircraftK > went through. In all three cases, as soon as the technology was invented,e itK > was taken up by a small set of people with high technical knowledge whileh atL > the same time undergoing a wide range of experimental designs to determineL > what worked and what did not. It then moved more into the mainstream where itI > was just a tool to carry out another task. This resulted in a change tot the>K > very nature of the industry in question, from a technical enthusiast typeF; > mentality to a "just another tool" engineering mentality.- >rF > Unlike cars and aircraft however, I see little evidence that current fashionsK > in computing are a massive improvement, at the technical level, over what  haseL > gone previously even though better technology exists, ready to be used, in, > today's "just another tool" type programs.  G It might be instructive to recall that long after the auto industry waswJ fully-established and largely stagnant it received a rude awakening in theJ form of new competition from Japan.  The U.S. industry then went through aK bleak period of inferiority and incompetence before rebounding in a rebirthsI of ingenuity and far better vehicles than had ever before existed (thoughtE Japan continued to match it stride for stride and remains its equal).   L 'Better technology' existed in the '50s and '60s (I wish I still had my copyI of "Racing and Sports Car Chassis Design" to offer examples from) and wasTG ignored for production use.  But it has a way of popping up eventually.e   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:12:22 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>iY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mo, Message-ID: <3B605D80.76E2D35E@videotron.ca>   Peter Weaver wrote:g% > ANGEL.SIX;2 15-DEC-1989 11:03:52.03t$ >    A sixel drawing of some angels.  I I have a very politically incorrect animation that I captured from a 3270iM emulator on VMS and then optimised.  But on an ethernet connection, it is toot fast and "premature"...   E The animation had been built by the mainframe operators during boringcN periods... (they were the type of operators to call those 900/976 numbers fromE the bank's telephones in the wee hours of the night and put it on theF speakerphone at max volume !)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:11:29 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>0Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Ms+ Message-ID: <3B606B60.A7D6DBBB@hsc.vcu.edu>   L  saw a pix once of the morton salt girl... amazingly accurate....  of course i didn't get a copy...   jim    David Cressey wrote:  K > >It was nice. I remember my first Christmas at DEC in 1983. We VMS peopleuF >  >received two VMS mail containing one a xmas tree with its blinkingK >  >candles, and another one with a train choo-choo-ing in circle. All thiseE >  >was displayed following the "instructions": type ext/noheader TT:e >  > >tJ > I'm pretty sure I have those old files, somewhere...on a Rainbow floppy! > B > IIRC, they were just text files, with embedded escape sequences. >t > --
 > Regards, >     David Cresseys >     www.dcressey.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:27:10 +0200h, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mp& Message-ID: <3B606F0F.8F699637@gmx.ch>   Frank da Cruz wrote: > L > Some of us use our Windows PCs primarily as VT terminal emulators and read > all our email on Unix or VMS.e ../..p   How did you guess?  = My best choice is KEA-VT for emulation and Netscape for Mail.aF Browser on my professional platform (Mac) is Netscape, and Netscape onB my (business) :-( PC. On my Alpha, its Mizzola euh, mozzola euh..,D gorgonzola euh, no, well, don't succeed to remember, but "it" starts& with $ moz. Ah, yes... Mozbugzilla :-)    (sorry, Steve, could not resist)   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:36:44 +0200n, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mi& Message-ID: <3B60714D.32CE8270@gmx.ch>   Simon Clubley wrote: > M > While we are on the subject of history, what finally happened to the Mill ?   G It has been sold to EDS. And I know of some DECcie who is (was) rentingF# some square meters for his company.e   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:55:52 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>lY Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Me, Message-ID: <3B6083C7.58A4DD58@videotron.ca>   Syltrem wrote: >  >   $ exit 732777964 >  > I like this one :-).  N Geez ! I had tried it and got a NONAME-F-NOMSG response so I figured my systemL was missing some message file that would have made it "interesting". But lowK and behold, I tried it again and checked the hex message number and finally  saw it !   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:58:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-Y Subject: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History), was: Re: Escape sequences not filtered in VMS Mi, Message-ID: <3B60846B.F3A7998D@videotron.ca>   Jim Agnew wrote: > N >  saw a pix once of the morton salt girl... amazingly accurate....  of course > i didn't get a copy...  = I have a sixel picture of the now defunct Montreal velodrome.e  G With the DECPRINT Poscript-to-Sixel printing utility, it is possible totN convert postscript images to sixel. You just have to do proper scaling so thatH it prints on the size of a screen (otherwise it generates 300dpi sizel).  M Not sure if this is available on ALPHA. But it was a very neat utility. I use 1 it to print postscript labels on an LA75 printer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:44:46 -0700e0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>3 Subject: Re: KZPCA SCSI adapter board for Alpha/VMSc, Message-ID: <3B601ECE.1C918DA8@Mvb.Saic.Com>    D.B. Turner, islandco.com wrote: >  > Rich > D > On - PC's -I can't see how it can do that with one controller chipF > Now I know you can run Ultra Wide and LVD on the same card - it justL > separates the bus (with two connectors on the internals of the board) - UW) > to one connector and LVD's on the otherm > K > But that doesn't fix the problem with termination - which is where it allf > goes to sh** > K > 8 bit term on one side requires the same on the other - Ergo, 8 bits fromw > the 16 go to never-never landh  H Well, no, that's not true.  In this case, terminators are used that onlyG terminate the high end of the bus when adding 8 bit devices to a 16 biteF bus.  So wide devices can still do a wide transfer, even when an 8 bit? device is also on the bus.  On later model Alphas with softwareeF termination support, you will also see an option to terminate just theF high or low 8 bits.  This lets you have, for example, all wide devicesE on the internal bus and all narrow devices on the external bus (othera& combinations are possible, of course).  D What does get impacted with some controllers is speed.  If you add aG 10mhz narrow drive to a bus containing 20mhz wide drives you will, with H some controllers, drop the speed of the wide drives from 40MBytes/sec toH 20MBytes/sec (you end up limiting them to 10MHZ transfers, tranferring 2B bytes per cycle).  Newer controllers, however, can negotiate speedH individually with each drive and then this problem does not occur.  I doE not know which of the VMS-supported scsi cards have this feature as Id: don't usually mix wide and narrow devices on the same bus.  
 Mark Berrymano   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 15:42:06 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)V Subject: Re: LPs on the Webo3 Message-ID: <ro3jtzsTWPfZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3B603525.E6D9E9BA@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:- > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > x >> In article <nTp77.7102$zN6.4024420@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:- >> > David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:-V >> >> They  also charge an awful lot for the CONDIST, so they may consider it a profit
 >> >> center.  >> >O >> > I think this is the real reason.  A CONDIST has got to only cost somethingoP >> > like $30 to produce and ship, yet they charge a little over $1000.  I'm notQ >> > sure what a subscription costs, however, it doesn't take much math to figureoQ >> > out that they've got to be pulling in a MINIMUM of a few hundred thousand inkN >> > profits there, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a few million.  TakingJ >> > that into consideration what logical reason is there for dropping it? >>I >> I think you underestimate the cost of producing and checking all thoses1 >> products before they go onto the master discs.a > V > Which is, once you turn it around, ultimately the best argument for serving softwareT > distributions over the net - there are no media preparation or distribution costs.  @ They still have to make CDROMs for those with security concerns.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:40:27 -0500y1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: LPs on the Web ' Message-ID: <3B60D49B.300085F7@fsi.net>e   John Santos wrote: > G > In article <3B5F6508.3E3E39C9@fsi.net>, djesys.nospam@fsi.net says...  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > >c > > > In article <y4vgkhm800.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:C > > > > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:: > > > >wO > > > >> I think you underestimate the cost of producing and checking all thoseNN > > > >> products before they go onto the master discs.  Is there really a newL > > > >> version of the French variant of DECwindows ?  Did they provide theL > > > >> documentation update required by internal procedures.  ConceptuallyN > > > >> this is straightforward, but it takes a lot of people, including timeB > > > >> of the individual development teams when products change. > > > >>H > > > >> I am not saying the cost is $1000, but it is certainly not $30. > > > >eQ > > > > They should be delivering at least ten thousand of these CDs, right? EvenlR > > > > $10 per CD will buy you half a man year to do the checking which should be5 > > > > highly automated in any case. I don't buy it.b > > > N > > > It takes different people skilled in various languages and applications,1 > > > spread over many groups within the company.p > > >iM > > > How do you "automate" checking the differences between V2.6 and V2.7 of5 > > > kits ? > >r% > > $ DIFF fs1 fs2                ! ?s > >nK > > Seriously - this is quality control that needs to be done regardless ofaI > > the distro medium - TK, CD, 9-track, web, ...  Including that cost ineG > > the cost of mass-producing media seems a bit skewed. The kits *ARE* L > > overpriced, and this is easily proved. I can put you in touch with localG > > firms as well as those of national repute who will back me up 100%.  > >rJ > > Even a full CD-R costs me $1 or less per disc and .28 hours of my timeF > > at $30 or so dollars per hour (a rough estimation of a respectableL > > salary for an OpenVMS SysAdmin worth his salt). I make that as $10.25 orJ > > so per disc to produce. Mark that up 100% and multiply by the 15 or soJ > > discs in the set plus packaging and that still comes to less than $325G > > US for the kit. Naturally, mass press runs of CDs are significantlyw > > cheaper than that. > >o9 > > Don't kid yourself - they're making out like BANDITS!  > I > Hmmm.  If you are eligible and can join CSA (~$100-$150/year), then you G > can get the VMS and/or Tru64 CD distributions (LP+DOCs 4 times a year C > plus current O/S kit + any new O/S releases) for about $500/year.   G Now, if there were a parallel to that for end-users - so the people whomD might buy any software CSAs develop can afford the platform that the software runs on...e  E Oops! Sorry - I keep forgetting that I'm only person in the world whot understands that...t  $ ...other than Bill Gates, that is...   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:08:03 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)C Subject: Re: Maynard Mill (was: Re: Ken Olsen (and DEC History)...)R1 Message-ID: <7x087.196$Yx2.3417@news.cpqcorp.net>-  U In article <3B60714D.32CE8270@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:a :Simon Clubley wrote:SN :> While we are on the subject of history, what finally happened to the Mill ?H :It has been sold to EDS. And I know of some DECcie who is (was) renting$ :some square meters for his company.  J   The Maynard Mill is now known as Clock Tower Place, and EDS and various K   other firms are tenants -- the Mill is again similar to when DEC started,m!   with a variety of tenant firms.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 11:02:44 -0700! From: fatz_nyc@my-deja.com (Fatz)sH Subject: MMS$TARGET contains MMS$CMS_LIBRARY when source is CMS element.= Message-ID: <10a2df06.0107261002.73a58f3d@posting.google.com>    Hello,  ( OpenVMS VAX V6.2, MMS 3.2-01, CMS V3.9-2  0 This is the reproducer for an oddity I've found:   $ CREATE DESCRIP.MMS  	 .SUFFIXESp .SUFFIXES : .TYPE1 .TYPE1~   .TYPE1~.TYPE1 :vA         @ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "MMS$CMS_LIBRARY = $(MMS$CMS_LIBRARY)"iA         @ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "MMS$TARGET_NAME = $(MMS$TARGET_NAME)"t:         $(CMS) FETCH /OUTPUT=$(MMS$TARGET) $(MMS$SOURCE) -(                $(CMSFLAGS) $(CMSCOMMENT)   ALL : TEST.TYPE1%         @ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "FINISHED"l   $ CREATE/DIR [.TEST] $ CMS CRE LIB [.TEST] "" $ CREATE TEST.TYPE1  $ CMS CREATE ELE TEST.TYPE1 ""
 $ MMS/CMS ALLh  7 CMS FETCH /OUTPUT=DISK:[TMP.TEST] TEST.TYPE1 /GEN=1+ "" A %CMS-S-FETCHED, generation 1 of element DISK:[TMP.TEST]TEST.TYPE1o fetched|   ----------------  B I can use MMS$TARGET_NAME as a workaround but it looks to me as if= MMS$CMS_LIBRARY is being assigned into MMS$TARGET by mistake.d  F When the source file isn't in CMS, (i.e. no tilde) MMS$TARGET contains the correct value.   Is there a reason for it?n   TIA, Fatz.    ------------------------------  # Date: Friday, 27 JUL 2001 01:20 EDTe. From: Bryan Jensen <bjj100@arlvax.arl.psu.edu>6 Subject: Re: Need help with rsh from Sun to OpenVMS..., Message-ID: <9jqv6r$1nr4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>  + In article <3B5E1DD4.4D066198@bigfoot.com>,h-    Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> writes: C >This following is an excerpt from the Solaris v8 man page for rsh:t >oD >___________________________________________________________________ >NOTESI >When a system is listed in hosts.equiv , its security must be as good as I >local security. One insecure system listed in hosts.equiv can compromise2# >the security of the entire system.- >-F >You cannot run an interactive command (such as vi(1) ); use rlogin if >you wish to do so.oF >_____________________________________________________________________  I vi doesn't work because the rsh server doesn't run it on a real terminal.SO It lacks the termcap entry and perhaps some of the other terminal capabilities.e   >Did it ever occur to youe< >that that's why your example above doesn't work correctly?   F My example (issuing a create command on the VMS rsh server and feedingF it lines of text to be put in the file) works correctly, it just isn'tD real useful because you can't send ^Z to terminate input as the UNIXD shell tends to treat ^Z as 'background the process'.  Plus there wasA that little disagreement on what terminates a line.  The originaliF question involved a DCL command procedure on the server, the procedure. could subtract off any linefeeds that show up.  4 > Maybe you should submit your own RFC just for rsh.  G Perhaps not a bad idea, I haven't been able to find an existing rsh rfct$ though my search was not exhaustive.  I I regularly use rsh including stdin to an AIX system.  It annoyed me when H the behavior of the UCX rsh client changed between releases so I wrote aF VMS rsh client so as to have a stable implementation.  I had to deriveB the protocol from the C source of a UNIX (Open source) rsh client.G An rfc would have been nice.  In any case, as long as you stick to linet& at a time server input it is workable.  D One could make the argument that it is foolhardy to use any protocol documented only with C code.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:50:43 -0400n' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>iH Subject: Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)( Message-ID: <9jps1v$gri$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - "Nic Clews" <nclews@csc.com> wrote in messagee7 news:a720d610.0107260147.5ef91b55@posting.google.com...d   ...y  F > One thing is fairly certain, and this is all chip designers, whetherH > they be AMD, Intel, IBM, Compaq or whoever, will 'bump' into the speedG > of light. After they have fab'ed down to the width of an electron and1G > clocked so fast that the timing resolution itself cannot be measured,R? > they will have to take a lateral think on how to achieve evert# > increasing demands for CPU power.. >2H > Parallelism and multi threading is one way forward. Doing that well is@ > the key. If Alpha is limited, but another architecture is more > capable...  I So far, the indications seem to be that EPIC is limited and Alpha is mores capable, given thate  ; 1.  chip areas are supposedly similar for McKinley and EV7,t  J 2.  EV8 would provide much more parallelism than EPIC in its current form,  I 3.  EV8 is said to require only about 10% more transistors to incorporatel SMT, and  H 4.  to add comparable parallelism to EPIC would not only require a majorK extension to the architecture but an extension far less synergistic with it I (hence likely increasing the transistor count far more than EV8's similartH enhancements even at whatever long-after-EV8 date such EPIC improvements could be incorporated).    >sH > You are right in what you say, nothing concrete and technical has beenA > said [and it's possible nothing ever will] but there's no smokeaI > without fire.  Compaq may have lit the blaze, but something fuelled it.e  C The underlying 'fire' in this case is to all appearance the burningaK incompetence of Compaq's management in recognizing and exploiting the valueaK of their products rather than any deficiency in Alpha or its engineers.  If E you took a poll here, I suspect you'd find that even most of Compaq's!G apologists wouldn't assert that the problems Compaq faces are primarily  engineering-related.   ...a  I > > If you point to increased IA64 instruction-issue width as a potentialeG > > catcher-upper, I'll point to the rapidly decreasing gains that thisg providesF > > (unless integrated with an SMT mechanism such as EV8's) due to the limited L > > instruction-level parallelism of most sequential processes (and Amdahl'sK > > law), and to the fact that in high-end *server* installations (the main J > > market at which both beasts are likely aimed) multi-thread parallelism seemsEF > > a far more cost-effective course to follow (and that adding SMT to	 somethingcD > > already as complex as EPIC will not happen overnight and *still* wouldn't< > > leverage the synergies between SMT and OOO as EV8 does). >mG > Agreed. There is so much more here, I've not seen here any mention of D > the NUMA differences of an EPIC compared to RISC. My guess is thatD > EPIC could fare better, because one of the things counting against< > Alpha is the unpredictability, whereas EPIC relies more on> > predictability. I've no evidence, no proof, it's a gut feel.  J I suspect your gut may just be telling you that it needs a snack.  Alpha'sI SMT is best used at relatively fine grain (e.g., serving multiple threads.H within the same - e.g., server - process to avoid TLB and virtual memoryF thrashing), while the locality artifacts of NUMA tend to be relativelyG coarse-grained (that's what processor - or QBB - affinity is aimed at).u   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:17:29 GMTM  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>H Subject: Re: Now we're cooking with gas. (was:  Wailing and moaning....)8 Message-ID: <9cm1mtofk2r2c06nn6uts8vf6am8mc8n80@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:55:03 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a     >iO >Compaq has already communicated with the customers it wants to keep. And basedmM >on the customer-compaq-apoligists here, it seems that Compaq has lured a bigu) >enough carrot to please those customers.e   >pK >The fact that Compaq has made no effort to provide more information to thepI >general public since the 25th is another good indication of where CompaqnL >intends to take VMS, or rather where it does not intend to take it (smaller >less important customers).e  F This viewpoint assumes, of course, that Compaq is free to discuss thisE openly.  There are other parties involved in this deal besides CompaqiA who may have reasons to keep some information closer to the vest.t   Just a possibility.i   > O >As far as VMS is concerned, I beleive that it is business as usual for Compaq. K >VMS will continue to live on IA64 instead of Intel. When Compaq started to O >support IDE drives, did VMS customers cry foul over the future of VMS ? So now-6 >Compaq is changing another component in the hardware. >BK >The problem has not much to do with the death of Alpha but rather with theoJ >continued absence of VMS as part of Compaq's core products and marketing,M >hence a continued fear that Compaq doesn't intend to do anything with VMS in L >the medium and long term as well as the strong messages from Compaq that it3 >wants to focus on Wintel stuff for the enterprise.n >oO >The very public murder of Alpha just caused many to realise that Compaq wasn'tmJ >interested in their small business and that Compaq was only interested in) >keeping certain large key VMS customers.   E Um... with the cost of Alpha systems, I kinda thought we were keeping , the smaller customers out of the VMS market.   > L >And the fact that Compaq has not made any attempts to clarify the situationI >only re-enforces the fact that its original murder-day message reflectedo- >Compaq's intentions/policies clearly enough.   > Again, consider that Compaq may not be free to discuss all the& particulars that lead to the decision.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:12:56 GMTe  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>- Subject: Re: Selling VMS to another company ?s8 Message-ID: <rul1mtcfbghiggujnl68fpocj9icemfh80@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:08:52 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>r wrote:   > @ >"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message6 >news:SDw77.1729$eH.1239581@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >0 >... >cI >> With EV8 the problem was cost and time to implementation. Further infol >> available under NDA.o >eI >Hmmm.  NDA because of the sensitive nature ot information cited as beingdC >sufficient to trash a highly-profitable product line.  Can you sayh
 >'cachegate'?e >      Oh, yeah.  Alrighty.  > 'Cachegate' is about an incident where a vendor put out faulty8 hardware, and forced people to sign an NDA to get a fix.  F In Compaq's case, it covers a business decision that is - at this timeB anyway  - considered to be a corporate secret.  Nothing is broken.F Customers aren't being extorted for  anything.  And it may be requiredD by Intel to use NDAs to diseminate this information.  You just don't know.$  B I'm might tired of you always taking the worst view of everything.E Your position is well known, and it colors all of your arguments with- a lop-sided bent.c  ? There just *may* be some pieces to this that you don't have thet information on.  Just may be.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 00:04:06 -0400>' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> - Subject: Re: Selling VMS to another company ? ( Message-ID: <9jqp8u$ekm$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote in messagey2 news:rul1mtcfbghiggujnl68fpocj9icemfh80@4ax.com...G > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:08:52 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>e > wrote: >a > > B > >"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message8 > >news:SDw77.1729$eH.1239581@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > >a > >... > >lK > >> With EV8 the problem was cost and time to implementation. Further info  > >> available under NDA.t > >lK > >Hmmm.  NDA because of the sensitive nature ot information cited as beingeE > >sufficient to trash a highly-profitable product line.  Can you saym > >'cachegate'?o > >t >e >i > Oh, yeah.  Alrighty. >-@ > 'Cachegate' is about an incident where a vendor put out faulty: > hardware, and forced people to sign an NDA to get a fix. >sH > In Compaq's case, it covers a business decision that is - at this timeD > anyway  - considered to be a corporate secret.  Nothing is broken.  H Except promises.  Except truth.  Except, to all appearances, competence.  0 > Customers aren't being extorted for  anything.  I Sounds like they're being extorted to sign an NDA to get information that H ought to have been offered in abject apology for the broken commitments.     And it may be requiredF > by Intel to use NDAs to diseminate this information.  You just don't > know.t > D > I'm might tired of you always taking the worst view of everything.  . Unfortunately for you, *I'm* not tired at all.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:10:59 GMTy* From: "David Cressey" <david@dcressey.com> Subject: Sixelsp3 Message-ID: <T2Z77.32$Iw2.586@petpeeve.ziplink.net>p  
 Peter Weaver,r  J I wrote a little code in Turbo Pascal for the Rainbow, to translate SIXELS into a form that I could push H to the LA-50.  IIRC,  the LA-50s internal graphics code was a variant on Sixels.    -- Regards,     David Cresseyf     www.dcressey.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:46:05 GMTu2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: Suggestion for IPF standalone backupp1 Message-ID: <hk%77.189$Yx2.3522@news.cpqcorp.net>   z In article <aqU77.7536$ar1.24172@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> writes:D :Is there any chance that IPF standalone backup could be enhanced toG :directly backup and restore savesets to and from a TCP/IP FTP server ?   C   IPF "Standalone BACKUP" -- an environment similar to what OpenVMSsD   VAX has used for initial system loads and such -- is not something&   that I would expect to exist on IPF.  F   An IPF bootstrap of OpenVMS itself (from removable disk media) will =   exist, akin to what is done now with OpenVMS Alpha systems.   F   NFS is probably too much configuration information to have to promptG   the user for -- having an option to start up a pre-configuring TCP/IPeD   environment (using DHCP client) and FTP might well be interesting.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:30:06 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: Suggestion for IPF standalone backupi1 Message-ID: <yZ%77.193$Yx2.3555@news.cpqcorp.net>t  o In article <wb3AHARY6RME@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: { :In article <aqU77.7536$ar1.24172@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> writes:.F :> Is there any chance that IPF standalone backup could be enhanced toI :> directly backup and restore savesets to and from a TCP/IP FTP server ?e ..A :1) It seems much easier to enhance the rumored-to-be-forthcomingt< :   LAD/LAST support from Alpha VMS to include tape support. ..  ?   There are no plans to provide host-based (LAST) tape support.n  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:58:09 -0300m) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brW+ Subject: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user baseiL Message-ID: <OF102DC867.54EBEE45-ON03256A95.00629221@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  F Sun won here ......  5 x E-10000 to substitute more than 25 Alphas and Vaxes and other B RISC machines in our SAP project .... my countdown to turn off  my Alphaservers systems isa
 July, 2002...h   Regards or no ...i  
 F=E1bio C.        > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> em 26/07/2001 14:41:25  9 Favor responder a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comq      + Assunto: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user basel     Alan Greig wrote:-H > Yesterday I received a "Sun Offers" brochure from Sun UK addressed to=    > "A Greig, VMS Systems Manager"  E If Sun wants your business and Compaq doesn't care about keeping youraC business, then you should go with the vendor that really wants youre	 business.m  H Acquiring new customers is very costly. Compaq gave Sun a very easy and=   cheapnH opportunity to get plenty of new customers. It is called competition, a= nd; where there is competition, the more agressive vendor wins.   C Compaq expects Microsoft and Intel to do its marketing. And neither_	 Microsoft(, nor Intel will start to do marketing of VMS.  H > management could possibly not see this. My gut feeling is still  that=  - > Compaq have signed their own death warrant.G    H Compaq is measured by itw Wintel activities. Compaq will survive. If it=  E manages to convert just 10% of its VMS customers to NT, it means that  Compaq0 will grow by 10% from Wall Street's perspective.         =K   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 20:25:38 -07003 From: utlonghornsrule@yahoo.com (Newbie JrSysAdmin)-+ Subject: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user baser= Message-ID: <2de05464.0107261925.34d105fb@posting.google.com>g  } fabio compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote in message news:<OF102DC867.54EBEE45-ON03256A95.00629221@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>... H > Sun won here ......  5 x E-10000 to substitute more than 25 Alphas and > Vaxes and other D > RISC machines in our SAP project .... my countdown to turn off  my > Alphaservers systems ist > July, 2002...  >  > Regards or no ...9 > 
 > Fbio C. >  >  >  > @ > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> em 26/07/2001 14:41:25 > ; > Favor responder a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t >  >  >  >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com_ >  >  > - > Assunto: Re: Sun goes after Alpha user base_ >  >  > Alan Greig wrote: I > > Yesterday I received a "Sun Offers" brochure from Sun UK addressed toO >  s" > > "A Greig, VMS Systems Manager" > G > If Sun wants your business and Compaq doesn't care about keeping youriE > business, then you should go with the vendor that really wants youro > business._ > I > Acquiring new customers is very costly. Compaq gave Sun a very easy ande >  > cheap I > opportunity to get plenty of new customers. It is called competition, ap > nd= > where there is competition, the more agressive vendor wins.r > E > Compaq expects Microsoft and Intel to do its marketing. And neithery > Microsoftu. > nor Intel will start to do marketing of VMS. > I > > management could possibly not see this. My gut feeling is still  that  >  u/ > > Compaq have signed their own death warrant.t >  > I > Compaq is measured by itw Wintel activities. Compaq will survive. If it  > G > manages to convert just 10% of its VMS customers to NT, it means thati > Compaq2 > will grow by 10% from Wall Street's perspective.    F i hope you got a good price on those 10ks, 'cuz they're old-news slow.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 00:07:11 GMT + From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com>h! Subject: TCPIP and 2 IP addresses 4 Message-ID: <996191992.770141@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>   All,G I posted a question a couple of weeks ago, but have been taken I'll andaK unable to check out the number of excellent responses given. I feel bad for J not responding to the kindness up until now. To those who replied, thanks,J and I'll be trying your suggestions (I have not fully read them yet - this1 weekend's task!) next week when I return to work.m Thanks again Andy Proctor   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:05:20 +0200-< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>) Subject: VAX Fortran and Visual Fortran ?w( Message-ID: <3B607800.153E1463@home.com>   Hi !4 Let's say you have an application that is built from< a couple of DCL routines (to get user input) and a couple ofC Fortran progs (that do the "computing") on a VAX environment today.i  B The users would like it on there desktop boxes (yes, Win9x/WinNT).  # The Fortran code is pretty messy...p  , Would Visual Fortran be an way to consider ?5 I'm considering adding some GUI to the Visual Fortrano code to replace the DCL.  ; (Today, they are using an VAX 6510 to print some labels...)l   Regardsk Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:00:48 -0400d, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>- Subject: Re: VAX Fortran and Visual Fortran ?t8 Message-ID: <9111mtophv1qn3idbicej7kag4fels023t@4ax.com>  6 On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:05:20 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <noone@home.com> wrote:a   >Hi !s5 >Let's say you have an application that is built froml= >a couple of DCL routines (to get user input) and a couple of D >Fortran progs (that do the "computing") on a VAX environment today. >tC >The users would like it on there desktop boxes (yes, Win9x/WinNT).n >r$ >The Fortran code is pretty messy... >t- >Would Visual Fortran be an way to consider ?i6 >I'm considering adding some GUI to the Visual Fortran >code to replace the DCL.a  A Sure - this should work, as long as you aren't calling VMS system ? services or RTL routines.  Printing labels can be, um, "fun" onnF Windows, however.  We do have a rather flexible routine, provided as a? sample called FORPRINT on the Visual Fortran CD, for doing textaE printing on a Windows printer, with adjustable margins, line spacing,n fonts, and more.      - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)m Fortran Engineeringi* High-Performance Technical Computing Group& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:05:45 +0200r< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>- Subject: Re: VAX Fortran and Visual Fortran ?c( Message-ID: <3B608629.D2C0419C@home.com>  @ Oh, this FTN prog produces code in an language called "ZPL" that8 thermal transfer printers from ZEBRA understands. I's an8 label-description language that is just "printed" to the8 printer as ASCII. I'd suspect that I'll just connect the? printer on COM1 and then OPEN the port and write to it directlym from the FTN prog.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.i PS.aC *If* there is some system services calls (as getting current time), ? I'd suspect there is similar ways to do the same thing in VF...  DS.m   Steve Lionel wrote:a5 > We do have a rather flexible routine, provided as asA > sample called FORPRINT on the Visual Fortran CD, for doing textsG > printing on a Windows printer, with adjustable margins, line spacing,c > fonts, and more.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:17:16 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/probleme1 Message-ID: <01_77.179$Yx2.3358@news.cpqcorp.net>c  k In article <9jnrig$npo$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org>, pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes:e :,F :I've been trying for two hours to get the VAX/VMS paks to work on the :Vaxstation 3100 M38 here...  1   And the exact symptoms you are seeing would be?    :Am I missing the obvious... (  H   Use the provided VMSLICENSE tool, or direct LICENSE REGISTER, but you K   must enter the license PAK information EXACTLY as provided.  (I'm mildly  J   surprised that you are not getting a PAK in a DCL command procedure, as )   that is obviously easier to deal with.)r  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:32:14 +0200o< From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@home.com>7 Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problemS( Message-ID: <3B60703E.E7EF29F7@home.com>  m > In article <9jnrig$npo$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org>, pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes:  > : H > :I've been trying for two hours to get the VAX/VMS paks to work on the > :Vaxstation 3100 M38 here...   Hi.t? I got my VMS Hobbyist licenses from www.montagar.com as an "DCLs formatted" mail.= Just made a copy-n-paste operation from Outlook to Reflection G and, voil, licenses for VMS and all layered products was registred ando	 loaded...e   Jan-Erik Sderholm.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:37:03 GMTn2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>7 Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problemi> Message-ID: <zQ187.142$4H4.208939@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>  F In comp.sys.dec Bill Pechter <pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> wrote:I > Wonder why it doesn't like the checksums then...  I've relicensed threeo* > times and every time it doesn't take it.  I > I've got both layered product PAKS and the VAX-VMS initial one and they > > all choke... I'm following the Hobbyist Guide to the letter.  K What are you using for your system console?  Are you using a real terminal,oK or are you using a PC running a terminal emulator (I guess there is a thirdnL option that you've actually got a glass tube, keyboard and mouse hooked up).  L If you're using the PC you should be able to just cut and paste the DCL into the window.r  K If you're using the other two options, printout the license PAKs for the OSuI and the networking stuff and very carefully type in the DCL.  My guess istJ that you're using SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE and getting a couple of the fieldsK mixed up.  It can be tricky if you're not used to be doing it, and there isR1 always the problem of fumble fingering something.r   			Zaneg   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:22:32 GMTl= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)n Subject: Re: VMS Prompt valuer0 Message-ID: <009FF966.DF25DDC0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <14ce1c21.0107260837.1fd639be@posting.google.com>, paszty@xoma.com (Nick Paszty) writes:r >hello.> >aG >we're running vms 7.1 on an alphaserver 800 5/333 and i have written afE >com file, cd.com,  that dynamically changes my prompt to the currentuG >working directory.  as i get deeper into a directory tree, i sometimesC% >receive the following error message.v >o$ >$3$DRA2:.SASAPPS.TOOLS]cd utilities8 >%DCL-E-STRTOOLNG, string argument is too long - shorten  >$3$DRA2:.SASAPPS.TOOLS]show def/ >  LARDAT2DISK:[000000.SASAPPS.TOOLS.UTILITIES]c >o@ >is there a length limit to the prompt value?  is there a way to >increase the value? >y >thanks, >  >nickl  6 The maximum is 32 bytes and no it cannot be increased.   Take a look at:i  8 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/FREEWARE50/XPDNT/   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:34:20 -0400i2 From: "Yan, Antony" <Antony.Yan@honeywell-tsi.com> Subject: RE: VMS Prompt valuejQ Message-ID: <FDEC6E96D16AD3119C1A00508B0BBA1201DE7524@lskex100.honeywell-tsi.com>o   Hi, All:   I was trying to signoff from this list from INFO-VAX-request@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU <mailto:INFO-VAX-request@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>  but not able to find my reference name from list owner side.  E Anyone can help me which e-mail I should use to send SIGNOFF command?    Thanks Tony     		-----Original Message-----@ 		From:	system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG]' 		Sent:	Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:23 PMe 		To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma 		Subject:	Re: VMS Prompt value   e 		In article <14ce1c21.0107260837.1fd639be@posting.google.com>, paszty@xoma.com (Nick Paszty) writes:e	 		>hello.v 		> I 		>we're running vms 7.1 on an alphaserver 800 5/333 and i have written a G 		>com file, cd.com,  that dynamically changes my prompt to the currentiI 		>working directory.  as i get deeper into a directory tree, i sometimes ' 		>receive the following error message.t 		> & 		>$3$DRA2:.SASAPPS.TOOLS]cd utilities: 		>%DCL-E-STRTOOLNG, string argument is too long - shorten" 		>$3$DRA2:.SASAPPS.TOOLS]show def1 		>  LARDAT2DISK:[000000.SASAPPS.TOOLS.UTILITIES]b 		>aB 		>is there a length limit to the prompt value?  is there a way to 		>increase the value? 		>a
 		>thanks, 		>o 		>nicku  8 		The maximum is 32 bytes and no it cannot be increased.   		Take a look at:e  : 		http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/FREEWARE50/XPDNT/   		--Q 		VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMD
 		           dL 		  "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery K 		  intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesh   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:43:16 -04000 From: wwebb1@email.usps.gov  Subject: Re: VMS Prompt value K Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB75001925CDD@rlghncst625.usps.gov>-   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ( > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:56 PMF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: VMS Prompt valuet >  >q      <snip>     0 > is there a length limit to the prompt value?        Yes there is.      32 characters.   ,    Why would you want a prompt like that?        =    Prompts like that get in the way of being able to use the o:    recall buffer efficiently with long commands, which is >    precisely when one typically finds the recall buffer to be     most useful.       This ain't DOS, y'know.  =    Making VMS appear DOS-like is equivalent to putting a LadaM    emblem on your Porsche.   is there a way tos > increase the value?       No. > 	 > thanks,s >  > nick >   p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:30:27 -0500r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>T5 Subject: Re: VMS remains secure at DEFCON hacker fest ' Message-ID: <3B60D243.226118AC@fsi.net>-   eccm wrote:c > D > Here are you to be finding a link to my "DEFCON9 report of sorts",( > It's my story and I'm sticking to it.. >  > http://www.vmsone.com/~opcom/-  ( Hhmmm... VMSone - is that like Scortch-1   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jul 2001 14:44:52 -0700" From: lyngwyst@aol.com (Jay Braun)% Subject: Who does migration from VMS?n= Message-ID: <4ce97a1a.0107261344.3d8e0248@posting.google.com>r  6 I have been doing web searches for companies that do aF migration/porting from VMS, primarily to UNIX/Linux.  I keep hitting aC small group of companies whose primary business is selling productsrA that emulate VMS in UNIX/Linux and Windows NT/2000 environments. pE Aren't there firms that perform ports in such a way that the customer-> doesn't have to keep relying on VMS constructs and proprietary products for years to come?    Jay-  ) p.s.  I love VMS.  Please don't flame me.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:35:10 GMTr2 From: Dave S <dave.senestraro@zxc.xx.solveris.com>) Subject: Re: Who does migration from VMS?:3 Message-ID: <3B609A57.DF3F1767@zxc.xx.solveris.com>b  J We've done some small stuff - ie 5-10 programs. Whole systems would NOT beG easy. Particularly if using rms/system services etc. We found even with5I the small stuff a lot of rewrites (now if it was designed to be ported --c thats a different story :) )   dave   Jay Braun wrote:  8 > I have been doing web searches for companies that do aH > migration/porting from VMS, primarily to UNIX/Linux.  I keep hitting aE > small group of companies whose primary business is selling productsoB > that emulate VMS in UNIX/Linux and Windows NT/2000 environments.G > Aren't there firms that perform ports in such a way that the customerd@ > doesn't have to keep relying on VMS constructs and proprietary > products for years to come?w >s > Jayu >e+ > p.s.  I love VMS.  Please don't flame me.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:50:36 -0400i- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>y) Subject: Re: Who does migration from VMS?n# Message-ID: <sb605872.091@aaas.org>s  ; An AOL user who "loves" VMS - what will they think of next?i  K If you're looking for a Bliss to Java cross compiler, you're probably out = L of luck.Our AR software is COBOL, it runs on VMS, HP-UX, Solaris, etc. The =L only difference is the back end (in our case - Oracle). If you have an app =? that is storing data in RMS then you have more rewriting to do.o  F >Aren't there firms that perform ports in such a way that the customer? >doesn't have to keep relying on VMS constructs and proprietaryt >products for years to come?  B Which ones are those? What are you porting (from what to what)?=20  K And I suspect your tone, more than an apology at the end, will be all the =N$ asbestos underware you'll ever need.  : >>> Jay Braun <lyngwyst@aol.com> 07/26/2001 5:44:52 PM >>>6 I have been doing web searches for companies that do aF migration/porting from VMS, primarily to UNIX/Linux.  I keep hitting aC small group of companies whose primary business is selling products C that emulate VMS in UNIX/Linux and Windows NT/2000 environments.=20eE Aren't there firms that perform ports in such a way that the customers> doesn't have to keep relying on VMS constructs and proprietary products for years to come?M   Jayf  ) p.s.  I love VMS.  Please don't flame me.4   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:49:05 -0700 1 From: "Brian Catlin" <briancatlin@mindspring.com> ) Subject: Re: Who does migration from VMS?s2 Message-ID: <9jqdsg$tcc$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>  B My company will "port" VMS drivers (or any BLISS code) to Windows.    -Brian    --, Brian Catlin, Sannas Consulting 310-798-8930B Windows NT/2000 Internals, WDM Device Driver Training & Consulting, See WWW.AZIUS.COM for courses and scheduling  g "Jay Braun" <lyngwyst@aol.com> wrote in message news:4ce97a1a.0107261344.3d8e0248@posting.google.com... 8 > I have been doing web searches for companies that do aH > migration/porting from VMS, primarily to UNIX/Linux.  I keep hitting aE > small group of companies whose primary business is selling productseB > that emulate VMS in UNIX/Linux and Windows NT/2000 environments.G > Aren't there firms that perform ports in such a way that the customeri@ > doesn't have to keep relying on VMS constructs and proprietary > products for years to come?e >r > Jayt >i+ > p.s.  I love VMS.  Please don't flame me.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:20:26 -0500i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e) Subject: Re: Who does migration from VMS? ' Message-ID: <3B60DDFA.D70447F7@fsi.net>.   Jay Braun wrote: > 8 > I have been doing web searches for companies that do aH > migration/porting from VMS, primarily to UNIX/Linux.  I keep hitting aE > small group of companies whose primary business is selling productsdB > that emulate VMS in UNIX/Linux and Windows NT/2000 environments.G > Aren't there firms that perform ports in such a way that the customer @ > doesn't have to keep relying on VMS constructs and proprietary > products for years to come?y  F So, you're looking for something that translates DCL to shell scripts?  F Sorry, no such magic. UN*X, etc. is too feature-poor to make that even remotely possible.  D There was an outfit many years ago, Channel Island Computing or some, such, who wrote a DCL to Fortran translator.  D Why Fortran? We may never know. Fortran was one DEC's less expensiveF 3GLs; however, MACRO32 shipped with every VAX/VMS distro. Besides, youF needed their RTL to link the resulting Fortran program anyway; so, theC portability (amopng VMS systems, I mean) was sacrificed in favor of G speed when CPUs had only a miniscule fraction of today's compute power.    -- m David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.D   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:36:50 GMT0' From: "Jean Norton" <jean@staffing.com>m) Subject: Re: Who does migration from VMS?v= Message-ID: <ml587.279634$lq1.62669680@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   K You might try Sector 7 at http://www.sector7.com  They specilize in exactlyo what you are asking about!   Jean Nortonw jean@staffing.comr OpenVMS Consultant  / "Jay Braun" <lyngwyst@aol.com> wrote in messagee7 news:4ce97a1a.0107261344.3d8e0248@posting.google.com...i8 > I have been doing web searches for companies that do aH > migration/porting from VMS, primarily to UNIX/Linux.  I keep hitting aE > small group of companies whose primary business is selling productsbB > that emulate VMS in UNIX/Linux and Windows NT/2000 environments.G > Aren't there firms that perform ports in such a way that the customerr@ > doesn't have to keep relying on VMS constructs and proprietary > products for years to come?m >. > Jay  >v+ > p.s.  I love VMS.  Please don't flame me.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 01:08:44 +0100u1 From: "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk>t$ Subject: Re: Zero Quadword Time PollA Message-ID: <996194230.22828.0.nnrp-08.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk>0  5 "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote in messagem& news:9jhi7r$1m3k@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk... > 2 > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:tloiaaq4daeo67@news.supernews.com...a >a+ > > > What benefit would the change bring ?r > >m4 > > I'm still wondering what the benefit is as well. >aH >    It would move the burden of special casing 0 from those using deltaG > times to those computing absolute times. A delta time of zero must belB > more common than actually needing to refer to the VMS base time.F >    Whether it's worth breaking backward compatibility for is another matter.l >w  > $ spawn/nolog/nosymb show statC >   Status on  23-JUL-2001 17:01:14.33     Elapsed CPU :17-NOV-1858e 00:00:00.00 H >   Buff. I/O :       28    Cur. ws. :   16384    Open files :         0H >   Dir. I/O :         0    Phys. Mem. :   976    Page Faults :       70 >t Not sure where you get this:   $   show sys/noproceJ OpenVMS V7.3  on node ALPINI  27-JUL-2001 01:07:09.93  Uptime  61 05:59:21 $ spawn/nolog/nosymb show statF   Status on  27-JUL-2001 01:07:18.04     Elapsed CPU :   0 00:00:00.02F   Buff. I/O :       42    Cur. ws. :    2000    Open files :         0F   Dir. I/O :         0    Phys. Mem. :  1024    Page Faults :       81 $n     -- Chris    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.413 ************************