1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 02 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 303       Contents:, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun# Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations : Re: Andrew to vanish from c.o.v.? Sun bans Internet access/ Another huge pile of 433au's, XP1000's incoming ! Re: Any DECforms users out there? ! Re: Any DECforms users out there? ! Re: Any DECforms users out there?   Can you format recieved VMS mail$ Re: Can you format recieved VMS mailH Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)H Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail) Re: disk benchmarking 8 Re: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)8 Re: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)8 RE: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)8 RE: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)8 Re: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)5 Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager 9 Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager 9 Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager B Re: FILESERV: Added OMI (was Re: Anyone know what happened to OMI)P Re: HOW to config and start decnet. was( Can't SET HOST to clustermemberADDENDUMP Re: HOW to config and start decnet. was( Can't SET HOST to clustermemberADDENDUM Re: hszterm software Re: hszterm software Re: hszterm software Re: ICC and Memory Channel> Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?K Re: Mozilla 0.9 - Command procedure used as CGI is displayed, not executed. / Re: Need VAX maintenance documentation urgently  News from ANNA KOURNAKOVA !!! ' Re: Open RMS files from DCL via TCP/IP? ' Re: Open RMS files from DCL via TCP/IP? P Re: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kits (was: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.2, DECnet-plus an0 Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.2, DECnet-plus and DNVOSIECO30 Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.2, DECnet-plus and DNVOSIECO33 Re: Pathworks V5.0F ECO2+W2Kpatch  W2K+SP2 problems 3 Re: Pathworks V5.0F ECO2+W2Kpatch  W2K+SP2 problems  Re: PCSI and Account creation.! Re: Performance Monitoring on VMS 2 Re: Self-maintenance of legacy DEC products - HELP6 Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options* Re: TCP/IP based printing from VAX/VMS 6.2 RE: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS $ Re: VAX / VMS Novice Slits Wrists :(# WANTED!  Qbus SCSI drive controller ' Re: WANTED!  Qbus SCSI drive controller ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) RE: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 01:27:24 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B1824DC.DCD3D0BF@infopuls.com>   andrew harrison wrote: >  > Christof Brass wrote:    [SNIP]  D > > Very simple: praxis. If we look around what we pay for computingB > > power delivered at screen, keyboard and mouse there is nothing@ > > which led us buy any SUN product. I'm not talking about some; > > benchmarks, I'm talking about what our applications and C > > customers see at delivered computing power. And the price range B > > for the UltraSPARC III processor is simply spoken illusionary. > 9 > Itf that is really your criteria for selecting a system ) > then why do you continue to buy Alphas?   = Because they run VMS - in case you might have forgotten this: " the name of the NG is comp.os.VMS.  7 > On actual applications benchmarks like SAP and Oracle : > apps Alphas have in the past and do currently suck rocks< > both in terms of actual performance and in terms of price,& > with the sole exception of the ES40.  ? As I said: performance of ES40 is exceptional - and that's what  we and our customers need.  9 > On the other hand Alpha systems have always given great 7 > SPECint and SPECfp and Compaq and before them Digital ; > majored on those two measures as a method for determining 8 > Alphas peformance superiority. The fact that they have: > had to rely almost exclusively on these two measures and1 > almost nothing else rather ruins your argument.   > This is methodological a very interesting approach: you try to= prove that fulfilment of a criterion what I never used can be > used to disprove fulfilment of another criterion what I solely? use. I doubt that you are fully aware of what you are trying to  do here.  	 > regards 
 > > [SNIP] > > 5 > > > In the server space Compaq have one competitive 8 > > > system the ES40 which keeps the rest from sinking. > > B > > That's right - there is practially nothing from SUN, HP or IBMD > > to compete with this. BTW the PowerPC is also not very fast, but" > > the UltraSPARC is ultraslower. > > 
 > > [SNIP] >  > -- > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architect   = And, sorry, that I have to shoot a dead horse and that I have ? forgotten to do it the last time: engineering wise SUN has left > any credibility. A company which first make a beginners design8 mistake in leaving out the ECC for the cache modules and? secondly try to hide this from their customers and/or potential ? customers by forcing the companies which suffer from the damage @ to sign NDAs to be able to get support is inline with the worlds@ biggest mafia organisation named Micro$hit. We recently bought a; SunBlade 1000 and to send it back because it wasn't able to > execute the basic installation steps. I wonder if the wellknow7 problem of the UltraSPARC III processor was the reason.   ? I know specifically of two companies which have decided to stop = buying SUN for quality and price / performance ratio reasons. > Unfortunately they both will continue to use Slowaris on IA32.% But we're working on that problem ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 01:40:56 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B182808.FD1B013C@infopuls.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Christof Brass wrote: B > > That's right - there is practially nothing from SUN, HP or IBMD > > to compete with this. BTW the PowerPC is also not very fast, but" > > the UltraSPARC is ultraslower. > L > Consider that the 8086 game controller was able to win over the world, wasN > beefed up to a point where it rivals the Alpha in performance.  Dismissing aM > company or product line because of its chip architecture is very dangerous.   @ You're completely right from the marketing point of view. What I7 sometimes forget to emphasise is that I'm basically not ? interested in marketing because it is like democracy: a wrongly 9 applied principle, i.e. an attempt to balance quality and * quantity or to compare apples and oranges.  N > Digital dismissed the PC as a competitor and focused only on IBM mainframes.K > It got killed by that lowly 8086 (thanks to "inspiration technology" that  > Intel got from the Alpha).  : From the technical point of view Digital made at least two< mistakes. I don't remember all the details but basically the? story goes like that: Digital developed a very powerful PC (was > it the Rainbow?) and found that the computing power was higher@ than some of the higher prices VAXes. Now comes the part I don't8 remember clearly: either they slowed down the PC or they8 increased the price. But at the end it didn't make sense
 economically.   M > Who cares if Sun's architecture is not as great and fancy as Alpha's ? They L > have market share, they are the leader and they have all the applications.O > Compaq is an also-ran with its Alpha, struggling to be noticed by the market.   ? The one million flies argument is well know to all people using  VMS ...   N > Sun has the guts to combat Microsoft and Intel. Compaq doesn't. I don't knowP > how much money Digital-Compaq wasted on the Wildfire stuff, but in my opinion,N > designing a cheap motherboard to tackle the high end PCs and low end serversL > would have been money that was much better spent because that is where the > market growth is happening.   @ If you had the pleasure to read what I reported in this NG about> my question (and the answer) to a Compaq representative at the? Zurich Technical Update event about their midrange UNIX systems ; strategy compared to SUN's you would know that your idea is  against Windoze and Intel.  M > It seems that Sun understands this. Don't underestimate them. And you can't O > blame Sun for Alpha's problems. Blame Digital and Compaq. It is a competitive ? > world and the one who doesn't fight is the first one to sink.   = Sorry, but I need an explanation in what way I blamed SUN for > Alpha's problems. Personally I don't see any Alpha problems. I rather see SPARC problems.  ; And one remark about your a little strange idea of the IA32 ? coming close to real enterprise computing power. Would you like > to tell me how many IA32 CPUs are able to work together in one@ server? I thought that the limit is 8 or 12. The ability to link? is a major design aspect. Do you know if the IA64 is any better  in that respect?   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Jun 2001 00:09:00 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun 0 Message-ID: <3b182eda$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  6 The issues around the DEC PC fiascos as I recall were:  K     Rainbow - a very nice dual processor PC ran CP/M and DOS, but still not  that powerful (Z80/8088)J     Professional - the PDP-11 of PCs.  Great design, multi-tasking OS, but closed architecture   H Those were the early attempts. And unfortunately DEC thought the supportI organization needed to be like that for Enterprise customers.  This was a F major downfall in the plan and was probably a major contributor of theH demise of this early effort.  It was also during the time when Olsen was2 heard to say, "PCs, a fad."  (Highly paraphrased).  D There were also some ventures like the 8088 in a VT100 housing and aL PDP-11/23, also in a VT100 housing and then there were the DECword products,J specialized word processors (PDP-8 on a chip).  Many of these were curious; but other than the word processors did not see much volume.   J The second and later ventures into PC were solely Intel based and at timesH in conjunction with other vendors doing some of the manufacture for DEC.L This included Tandy as well as Ollivetti and others as I recall.  But it was then a "real" PC.   H The laptops were probably the best part of DEC's venture into PCs.  They tended to be leading edge.  L I have never heard of issue with regards to any PCs being more powerful than= any of the VAX line in the discussions and in my involvement.    --
 Bill Pedersen  CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learning 
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  6 "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3B182808.FD1B013C@infopuls.com... > < > From the technical point of view Digital made at least two> > mistakes. I don't remember all the details but basically theA > story goes like that: Digital developed a very powerful PC (was @ > it the Rainbow?) and found that the computing power was higherB > than some of the higher prices VAXes. Now comes the part I don't: > remember clearly: either they slowed down the PC or they: > increased the price. But at the end it didn't make sense > economically.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 02:26:00 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B183298.C2A50022@infopuls.com>   andrew harrison wrote: >  > Christof Brass wrote:  > >  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > >  > > > It was written...  > > > ( > > > > > > Sun buying Compaq, unlikely.	 > > > > > Q > > > > > Why not ? Sun would be able to cannabalise Compaq's microsoft alliances 	 > > > and R > > > > > operations and focus on *real* enterprise solutions. It would be a major
 > > > kickL > > > > > in the ass to Bill Gates since Compaq would then become a rival to > > > Microsoft.	 > > > > > R > > > > > Sun would gain access to Alpha which it could market (and use on its ownP > > > > > systems) and show a clear lead in technology over those that are based > > > on. > > > > > Intel's delayed 64 bit architecture. > > > P > > > Truth be told, Digital ported Solaris to Alpha back in the mid-90s just toQ > > > prove it could be done. And there were 1995 backchannel discussions between K > > > the two vendors re: Digital adopting--and enhancing--Solaris, and Sun  > > > adopting Alpha.  > > C > > This really makes sense. The UltraSPARC is ultra slow and ultra @ > > expensive. I don't know if there is a chip around with lower > > performance/price ratio. > >  > / > Really and how did you reach this interesting " > but unsupportable conclusion ??? > 0 > As you know perfectly well the opposite is the- > case, UltraSPARC isn't ultra slow and it is  > also not ultra expensive.  > 4 > If you are looking for the holder of the UltraSlow5 > UltraExpensive titles you need look no further than  > the Alpha. > + > From a workstation standpoint Compaq seem * > unable to build any form of AlphaStation0 > that can compete price wise with a SunBlade1004 > and while it may not be as fast as the lowest cost3 > D machine its bigger brother the SunBlade 1000 is ( > and it is also very price competitive. > 1 > In the server space Compaq have one competitive 4 > system the ES40 which keeps the rest from sinking. > 3 > But above it the GS160/320 have proven themselves 4 > to be overpriced and under powered, while below it6 > Compaq don't produce anything that competes with the0 > Netra range from Sun or for that matter the HP > A series machines. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 21:07:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B183C32.E9877919@videotron.ca>   Christof Brass wrote: A > As I said: performance of ES40 is exceptional - and that's what  > we and our customers need.  M Digital used to brag about having machines that are great from the desktop to  the data centre.; But now itseems that only the ES40 is worth bragging about.   K If th Alpha-VMS platform is only good (price performance) on a single model J compared to the competition, then it is not a viable platform. Sun may notH have leading edge everywhere, but they seem to have more than acceptableE performance on a wide range of machines which explains their success.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 21:12:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B183D48.1842DCD2@videotron.ca>   Christof Brass wrote: = > And one remark about your a little strange idea of the IA32 A > coming close to real enterprise computing power. Would you like @ > to tell me how many IA32 CPUs are able to work together in one	 > server?   N It doesn't matter because companies are stringing multiple separate servers toL handle the load. How many servers does Dell have now to serve its web site ?  M It and seems that companies prefer to hire 20 MS weenies  to manage a farm of M servers than to find willing abd able VMS system managers to manage a smaller N more efficient setup. If VMS workforce were so rare, folks like me wouldn't be@ unemployed and you'd be seeing ads for VMS experts all the time.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:02:41 -0500 (CDT)n From: sms@antinode.org5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sune) Message-ID: <01060123024132@antinode.org>   - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h  O > Digital used to brag about having machines that are great from the desktop to  > the data centre.= > But now itseems that only the ES40 is worth bragging about.   G    It's too soon to say why, but my initial experience with a Sun BladefE 1000 (in a non-Sun package) suggests that the DS20E is not a completen dog, either.  G    At work we have an integer/memory-heavy application which appears in E early testing to run only about 35% faster on a 750MHz Sun Blade 1000 @ than it does on a 450MHz Ultra 60.  One of the Compaq Test DriveH systems, a DS20E 6/667, was close to twice as fast as the U60.  Until weB got the Sun Blade, the (rather sparse) evidence suggested that ourC application speed tracked the SPECINT 2000 rather closely, but thatV seems to have broken down.  A    The Sun Blade also seems to have some PCI quirk which upsets aSD third-party device driver upon which we depend.  Some prefetch thing" appears to be missing or disabled.  C    We're still looking into the problems, and solutions may be just E around the corner, but our initial experience with this box would notV8 suggest that it'll be taking over the world immediately.  F    I have not shopped around to compare prices on these things, exceptF to note that the OS is free on the Suns, while Tru64 is not.  I assume* that the Sun hardware is cheaper, however.  H    Of course, this has only slightly more to do with VMS than do nuclearF power and global warming, but I'll try harder in the future to contain myself.r  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)lC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)eG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)u9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:58:08 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10006 Message-ID: <1010601164304.60257B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  $ On 1 Jun 2001, Dave Greenwood wrote:  K > I just installed a new XP1000 into a cluster (replacing an older system). K > It's running 7.2-1 with the VMS721_UPDATE V2.0 patch, plus other patches.uH > It's a few K miles away so I can't see the console.  I also don't knowG > much about its physical characteristics except what I can see througheI > various VMS tools.  (All that's by way of excusing the somewhat inexactc$ > description of the problem below.) > J > The ethernet mode (ewa0_mode) is set to auto-negotiate.  When the systemG > is powered up it negotiates 100Mb, full-duplex.  Apparently, when VMSaH > starts it renegotiates to 10Mb.  That's based on the report of someoneF > sitting at the console.  We, obviously, want a 100Mb connection.  WeJ > tried setting ewa0_mode at the console to fast, full-duplex (or whateverI > the appropriate value is, I'm not sure what the exact terminology is ontG > an XP1000), but that didn't work - the hub on the remote end wouldn'tr > talk to the XP1000 at all. >  > My questions are:- > & > Why would VMS renegotiate the speed? > * > Can I force the 100Mb speed?  If so how? > : > How can I determine the ethernet speed setting from VMS? > 2 > What other info do I need to solve this problem? > 	 > Thanks,p > Dave  F I've had a lot of trouble getting VMS (mostly ES40's) to autonegotiateC to 100Mbs FD with hubs in autonegotiate mode.  Most of the Ethernet F interfaces are the KZP??'s (I forget the part number) that have 2 SCSID channels and an Ethernet port on one PCI card, but I've had the same0 problems with other interfaces on other systems.  D Initially, auto on both ends seems to always result in 10Mb HD.  (IsB 10Mb *always* HD?).  Setting the ewa0_mode to FastFD and rebootingD generally (but not always) results in a non-working Ethernet, but weC discovered if you unplug the cable from the hub for long enough foryC the hub to decide the node has gone away (20-30 seconds, IIRC), and C then plug it back in, it seems to renegotiate, and there after runsa	 at 100Mb.h  @ However, I don't think it negotiates full/half duplex correctly.C Under heavy load, DECnet logs lots of "alignment" and "frame check" F errors to OPCOM.  Either setting the ew?0_mode to FastHD or explicitly/ changing the switch to full-duplex solves this.h  H I have had this happen on at least 6 different systems at 4 sites, usingD a variety of Ethernet interfaces and switches.  Other systems (PC's,F Suns) seem to autonegotiate to 100Mb full-duplex just fine, so I think> there is a generic problem with the Compaq boards or firmware.   -- g John Santosr Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:11:42 -0700a. From: terrence golden <terrygolden@brandx.net>( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations* Message-ID: <3B18050E.C9947968@brandx.net>  L Absolutely! Where's the blue colored mime guys or dancing IC workers when itH comes to alpha? If compaq had any mkting skill they would hire Jame BondH and do a world wide campaign on the security features of OVMS in a manorE that could be understund my the any average idiot er common man. Fear ! it works for political campaigns.A  L But then if they had any mkting skill they would repackage alphas into cheapF internet devices /PC's and give away OVMS. Just package it with a goodO browser, PDF reader,PCI support, plays songs and  something that reads word andrN excel  files. That hitler gates would pull thier windows contract if they did,M as once the freed masses decided to try and then buy OVMS, softies' XP plans.e  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  M > Tell that to Microsoft, that's what they're basing some of their current TVsM > ads on here. Well, two out of three. Apparently even the Redmond Borg don'te? > have the nerve to base a major campaign on Windows' security.w >' > Shane  >xD > Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> on 05/24/2001 07:40:43 PM >t< > Please respond to Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> >l > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come > cc:o >o+ > Subject:  Re: Affordable VMS Workstationsm >e > Terry C. Shannon wrote:t > >h > > > J > > > Why spend $1K on a bare system, when you can spend the same $1K on a? > > > Wintel platform, and get a completely operating computer?: > > ? > > Reliability, stability, and security might be good reasons." >kF > They're great reasons... For you, me, and most of the people reading > this newsgroup...i >oI > But alas, they're not the greatest things a advertising agency wants ton( > build an ad campaign around.... (sigh) >t > -- >TI > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my. > employer.d >tJ > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:27:29 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations+ Message-ID: <3B1808B1.9D91FC3@videotron.ca>t   terrence golden wrote:N > But then if they had any mkting skill they would repackage alphas into cheapH > internet devices /PC's and give away OVMS. Just package it with a goodQ > browser, PDF reader,PCI support, plays songs and  something that reads word andm > excel  files  E Please stop dreaming. Compaq is a Wintel company and that is its core J business. It Tolerates the existence of VMS in a small market niche for asK long as VMS bring in additional money and doesn't hurt Wintel sales. And it J isn't going to change nor is Compaq going to start to allow VMS to compate against Microsoft/Intel.  P Be happy we have the hobbyist programme and that old vaxes can be had for cheap.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:36:57 +0100, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m>C Subject: Re: Andrew to vanish from c.o.v.? Sun bans Internet accessr3 Message-ID: <9f8n9g$h2l$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>,  
 Hi Andrew,  H Do you know how to control the order in which a Solaris Distributed NameJ Server will give out the IP addressses of a host that has more than one IPE address? And if so could you tell me? (Feel free to narrow it down tosJ whatever version you like of Solaris or BIND) It looks like round-robin to me but how do you configure it?i  I Before anyone gets on their high horse about this being a VMS news group,hF let me just say that I'd much rather have the UCX or TCPware behaviour1 explained to me but that's just not happening :-(g   Regards Richard Maherf  ; andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message $ news:3B16E3D9.EC76E13D@uk.sun.com... >r > Jim Agnew wrote: > >iI > > like a mob hit man????   Like the studios kept Moe on as a errand boya afterSC > > the three stooges were laid off, and before their movies??  ;-)  > >s& > > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > >tA > > > If he stays around, it'll be close to proof he's officially  sanctioned.o > > >t > > > Shanet > > > ? > > > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> on 05/30/2001 07:04:50 AM  > > >b7 > > > Please respond to Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>l > > >r! > > > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComA	 > > > cc:m > > >aF > > > Subject:  Andrew to vanish from c.o.v.? Sun bans Internet access > > >t  > > > According to The Register:K > > > >Sun Microsystems has told it employees NOT to use the Internet in anbK > > > effort to shave a few dollars off its phone bill and thereby make itsa' > > > annual results look a bit better.  > > > >o > > >e9 > Though the Register is normally 100 % accurate :):):):)-: > in this case any announcment that they have has not been: > communicated to people working for Sun. I of course wait= > for the Registers advertising staff to contact me to informs> > me of the "new Sun policy" but in the mean time don't assume< > that OpenVMS marketing B***S**T will get any less than the8 > normal scrutiny. The usual culprits as always will get > what they deserve. >1	 > RegardsG > Andrew Harrisont > Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:34:52 -0400, From: "islandco.com" <dbturner@islandco.com>8 Subject: Another huge pile of 433au's, XP1000's incoming/ Message-ID: <thg5u0etrom953@news.supernews.com>f  7 We have the following incoming around the first of Julyt     18+ x XP1000's 50 x ALpha PWS433au'sa  = We'll be selling them through our website at www.islandco.comt   So keep your eyes peeled     -- We sell Alpha's !V% Want to buy an Alpha or Alpha Parts ?C Go to http://www.islandco.comd& Hardware for Alpha VMS, Tru64 & Linux.   Island Computers US Corporationt 2700 Gregory Streetd Savannah GA 31404e Tel: 912 447 6622d Fax:912 201 0096 sales@islandco.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:57:03 GMTh( From: Jay Olson <jjo@triton.com.no.spam>* Subject: Re: Any DECforms users out there?1 Message-ID: <3B17E493.6030809@triton.com.no.spam>e   Dave Sneddon - bigpond wrote:s   > Hi Folks,C > I > Is there anyone out there that is currently using DECforms within theirsB > application development or using applications based on DECforms?  G I have two clients in Scandinavia who are using DECforms and have been CG using for almost 10 years. This system has been in production, as well CG as being actively developed and enhanced, all this time. It works well 1  and the users are happy with it.    J > We currently have a homegrown "forms" based application and are thinking5 > about migrating to DECforms (if not too much work).hK > I would like to get an idea of things like resource usage and developmentt > difficulty etc.o  D Development requires a bit different way of thinking, and debugging G isn't the easiest thing to do. Resource utilization isn't the greatest  F either. It's a lot more than say SMG, but on the other hand, is a lot 0 less than say Oracle Forms (or Oracle anything).    I > I am located in Australia and have been told by the local Compaq peopleuF > that there is no-one in the country that is using DECforms...  I wasK > hoping for a reference site to get some unbiased comments on the product.o  H Even in the U.S., getting DECforms experts is hard. Also, I am not sure I how much of development resources there are within Compaq. However, I do h< know a few folks who are quite familiar with the product :).    ,      - Jay Olson (jjo "at" triton "dot" com)      Triton Software Group LLC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:42:00 -0500: From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov>* Subject: Re: Any DECforms users out there?+ Message-ID: <9f9279$frr$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>o  K The DECforms engine is very good at displaying characters on a dumb 24 linebH 80 or 132 column terminal, if that's what you really want to do.  Do youL really have a lot of users running their applications from VT-nnn terminals?E If they're running terminal emulators on PCs, you might be better offi0 writing real PC programs or DECwindows programs.  G If you really want a sophisticated multi-pane form interface for VT-nnn F terminals, DECforms can do it, but the form language, called IFDL, wasL designed by the same committee that gave us COBOL.  It's incredibly verbose,A requiring thousands of lines of IFDL to define a not very complexnK application, and interesting applications can easily take tens of thousandsoJ of lines of IFDL.  If you get paid by the line, it's definitely the way toJ go.  Thanks to Mike Levine's macro processor, I was able to define a macroH language for generating a suite of forms, or I never would have finishedG that project in my lifetime.  (That macro language is quite applicationo. specific, so I regret that I cannot share it.)  A After its verbosity, my second favorite feature is the language'stG syntactical complexity and lack of statement terminators or separators,vH which might make it impossible to write a compiler that can recover fromF syntax errors.  The VAX 1.4 compiler that I used back in its day had aI default 30 error limit.  It would find one syntax error, get lost, reportpL syntax errors on the next 29 lines, and then quit.  I fixed the first syntax* error and recompiled to find the next one.  L I think of IFDL as comparable to machine language.  I used a macro processorG when I was forced to write it, but I think there should be higher level2E language compiler that generates IFDL, just like C compilers generate: machine language.C  F If your applications are front ends to Rdb or other VMS ODBC-compliantL database, you should be able to write PC applications using Access or any ofJ many PC application generators with much less effort than DECforms, or youH might look for a DECwindows application generator.  If not, you might beK able to break your application into a user interface and a VMS application,lL and write the user interface in Visual Basic and have it talk to the rest ofJ the application via TCP sockets.  I don't know if anything came of it, butL once upon a time I heard a rumor that an Australian company was porting TDMSJ to Alpha.  If they ever delivered a product, or if you want to run only onJ VAXes, simple interfaces can be quicker to write in TDMS than in DECforms.  I DECforms comes with what's passed off as a WYSIWYG form editor, but as of H VAX 1.4, it only understood some of the IFDL syntax, and if you manuallyJ added anything to a form's IFDL that it didn't understand, the form editorK deleted or mutilated it.  I found the form editor useful for showing what aAL panel would look like when displayed, but useless for writing or editing theG IFDL.  I used EVE to edit the IFDL or the macros that generated it, DCL.H commands to compile it, and the DECforms form editor to show me what the panels looked like.f  J If you really want a sophisticated multi-pane interface with dynamic help,I popups, and other windows-like features on a dumb terminal, you can learnV* IFDL, write a lot of it, and it will work.  
 Good luck,1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541t scandora@cmt.anl.gov    A "Dave Sneddon - bigpond" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in messager% news:3B17057F.BBB8484F@bigpond.com...k > Hi Folks,a > I > Is there anyone out there that is currently using DECforms within theirMB > application development or using applications based on DECforms?J > We currently have a homegrown "forms" based application and are thinking5 > about migrating to DECforms (if not too much work).oK > I would like to get an idea of things like resource usage and developmentd > difficulty etc.SI > I am located in Australia and have been told by the local Compaq peopleAF > that there is no-one in the country that is using DECforms...  I wasK > hoping for a reference site to get some unbiased comments on the product.  >s
 > Regards, > Dave.. > --K > David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.comaK > Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/eK > DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmaK > "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" LennonI   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:12:53 GMTSL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")* Subject: Re: Any DECforms users out there?8 Message-ID: <009FCE3E.2CBBD06D@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <9f9279$frr$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>, "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov> writes:  G >If your applications are front ends to Rdb or other VMS ODBC-complianttM >database, you should be able to write PC applications using Access or any ofeK >many PC application generators with much less effort than DECforms, or yourI >might look for a DECwindows application generator.  If not, you might beyL >able to break your application into a user interface and a VMS application,M >and write the user interface in Visual Basic and have it talk to the rest of K >the application via TCP sockets.  I don't know if anything came of it, butPM >once upon a time I heard a rumor that an Australian company was porting TDMS.K >to Alpha.  If they ever delivered a product, or if you want to run only on K >VAXes, simple interfaces can be quicker to write in TDMS than in DECforms.j >:  G The Australian company was PRAXA.  They created a TDMS Emulator (called0I TDMS Emulator) for Alpha, which used its own TDMS library format, so you lH need to recompile your TDMS libraries but you don't have to rewrite your	 programs.t  J Unfortunately, at least  in 1996 when we acquired it, they didn't write a K form editor application, so you were still stuck with running TDMS on a VAXh* just to be able to change or create forms.   -- Alan  >   O ===============================================================================p0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056MM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210'O ===============================================================================a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:58:42 -0500( From: "Bill Ames" <billames@accunet.net>) Subject: Can you format recieved VMS mailm/ Message-ID: <thg75r4k2dtj2e@corp.supernews.com>k  G I'm want to email an 80 character wide invoice file which resides on my L OpenVMS system to an Microsoft Outlook user.  I get the list file just fine,G but when I actually print it wraps the text smaller than 80 characters.sJ I've played with Outlook, sytles and such with no luck. Is anyone else out there doing this kind of stuff?e   Bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:02:22 GMTw2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: Can you format recieved VMS mailr2 Message-ID: <i2WR6.976$fi2.25244@news.cpqcorp.net>  Z In article <thg75r4k2dtj2e@corp.supernews.com>, "Bill Ames" <billames@accunet.net> writes:H :I'm want to email an 80 character wide invoice file which resides on my- :OpenVMS system to an Microsoft Outlook user.a  H   Use FTP.  Serve it to the PC via http.  MIME a Zip file.  Serve it to C   the PC via http.  Serve it via NFS.  (I'd first try FTP or http.)g  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 06:47:21 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>Q Subject: Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)n& Message-ID: <3B186FD9.6E6FC888@gmx.ch>   Bill Ames wrote: > I > I'm want to email an 80 character wide invoice file which resides on myoH > OpenVMS system to an Microsoft Outlook user.  I get the list file justD > fine, but when I actually print it wraps the text smaller than 80 I > characters. I've played with Outlook, sytles and such with no luck. Is y1 > anyone else out there doing this kind of stuff?k  $ It wraps the text _smaller_ than 80?  @ Anyway, what is the RMS format of the file? What did produce it?G If it was produced with a 3rd GL program, may be the program could givet the file a different format.   You could do this:   o  do an ANA/RMS of the fileH o  check the record format (fixed, variable, vfc...), terminator (none,     CR, ...) and length.r o  produce a .FDL with       $ ana/rms/fdl your-filen9       this will produce a your_file.fdl that you can editv o  edit the .fdl  o  change the appropriate values* o  convert the file to its new fomat with *       $ conv/fdl=your_file.fdl your_file *  D then try again. Watch out any further edition session with EDT whichD will change some of these attributes (famous message: "file has beenG converted to a supported type"). All of this can be accomplished with ao& few DCL lines before sending the file.  B To me, you need either CR as the record terminator or fixed lengthF format or both and reclen = 80. I do not know exactly but playing with these attributes may work.   D. -- nB Compaq Computer (Schweiz) GmbH, Ueberlandstrasse 1, 8600 Dubendorf<      All opinions expressed are my own and not my employer's   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 01:35:29 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>SQ Subject: Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)e, Message-ID: <3B187B1C.97708A12@videotron.ca>  ' re: sending text files that don't wrap.   J VMS generally does not have the smarts to wrap text in MAIL (except on the decwindows mail interface).u  M I suspect that the wrapping occurs in the mail client. You should insist thatrM the clients be configured to display text in monispaced fonts and not to wrapn
 incomin text.g  F If you know that the only recipients will be reading your message withG microsoft software, you might consider sinning big time and sending the N messages as HTML formatted messages, with the <PRE> tag that indicates that no reformatting of text be done.-  K But there is no way to control how text is displayed at the client when youe# send a standard text ascii message.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:14:12 -0400l( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: disk benchmarking+ Message-ID: <3B17DB74.B6E1E0B1@bigfoot.com>d  N Am I gettin' to ya Mr. Bill?  Running out of adjectives I see.  Would you likeN to purchase a vowel, or is that the last we shall hear from you poor, dear Mr. Bill. O Feel free to fire the full litany of your foul-mouthed arsenal at me so you cantE best illustrate to all who read, what a learned professional you are.o   HM   Bill Todd wrote:  7 > "Hamlyn Mootoo" <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in message ' > news:3B17840C.F9F9C361@bigfoot.com...gM > > Sorry, I must have missed by copy of  the Newgroup Manual of Style, but IvJ > > will consider this in the future when someone next sends me a block ofM > > dung, as did Mr. Todd, or is it Mr. Bill? I get those two confused a lot.: >:H > I think the operative aphorism here is more 'pearls before swine' thanN > arguing with a fool'.  And, as I said before, if you're indeed interested inE > finding consulting work through your Usenet posts, a major attitudeeN > readjustment is likely in order:  while you don't know nearly as much as youL > obviously think you do, what you do know could likely be useful to someone > if you weren't such an ass.- >i > - bill >h > >  > > HM > > & > > "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" wrote: > >e/ > > > On Wed, 30 May 2001, Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: - > > > [...one page of text and 11kB cited...]e > > >o> > > >  With formal request: can you *selectively* cut and saveB > > > only the REQUIRED part of previous message when your reply ? > > >s= > > >  Answer in the form "after appriopiate sentence" (as intF > > > included in you mail reply from Bill) also much better readable,# > > > but that is separate story :)t > > >e > > >  Thanks, Gotfryd > > > [...13kB cut...] > > > --K > > > =====================================================================oL > > > $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") -+ > > >                 THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME04 > > > $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plK > > > =====================================================================  > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:18:47 -0500e1 From: Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> A Subject: Re: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)a2 Message-ID: <3B179637.37C1DE6@mail.ourservers.net>   Patrick Spinler wrote:   > ! > Also, according to this messager) > http://www.free.lp.se/bash-19990323.txt  > E > There's a port of bash to vms.  This will also likely help with thehC > funky configure scripts.  You'll have to mail the porter directlyc+ > though, as I no longer have this package.t >   C This would be of great help, but I cna't seem to find the.  The FTPtG address given in the above text file dosen't aeear to be online anymoren< and I can't seem to find it at any of the standard archives.  H SO if anyone know swehre I can get a copy of this, I would appreciate it6 as it would GREATLY help porting Unix code to OpenVMS.   Thanks.0   -- :  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Jun 2001 11:43:12 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> A Subject: Re: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)a0 Message-ID: <qhn17shwhr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  3 Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes:f0 > And people wonder why others hate Unix code :}  A Oh yeah, as if VMS code is more easily ported to other platforms.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 11:40:23 -0700 ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>eA Subject: RE: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)o9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEENHCKAA.tom@kednos.com>e  " Did you try send an email to Rupp?   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Robert Alan Byer [mailto:byer@chef.ourservers.net]& > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:19 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com C > Subject: Re: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)n >  >  > Patrick Spinler wrote: >  > > # > > Also, according to this messageh+ > > http://www.free.lp.se/bash-19990323.txty > > G > > There's a port of bash to vms.  This will also likely help with thenE > > funky configure scripts.  You'll have to mail the porter directlya- > > though, as I no longer have this package.  > >r > E > This would be of great help, but I cna't seem to find the.  The FTPmI > address given in the above text file dosen't aeear to be online anymoree> > and I can't seem to find it at any of the standard archives. > J > SO if anyone know swehre I can get a copy of this, I would appreciate it8 > as it would GREATLY help porting Unix code to OpenVMS. > 	 > Thanks.t >  > --   > B >  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+B >  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |B >  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+B >  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |B >  +-------------------------------------------------------------+B >  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |B >  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |B >  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |B >  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |B >  +-------------------------------------------------------------+ >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:47:01 -0500b+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>sA Subject: RE: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)eL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EC8@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com]  5 > Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes:b2 > > And people wonder why others hate Unix code :}  C > Oh yeah, as if VMS code is more easily ported to other platforms..  L Easier than autoconf'd code, yes.  I know of no "make a config file with theK proper options, so you can run a program to create a script, so you can rungL the script to create a config file with the proper options, so you can build" the program" procedure for VMS. :)   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");t 's   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 11:57:59 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comtA Subject: Re: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)nD Message-ID: <OFD62EDD3E.5177D066-ON88256A5E.006728F8@foundation.com>  I IMHO, it's not the original platform but the discipline of the programmerjH that leads to portability. If you intend to make something portable, andG you're prepared to do the research and put the effort in, you can writebI portable code almost anywhere. Sure, you'll always have to debug, but the K more care you take in the initial creation, the less effort you have to puti in for each new platform..  J I say "almost anywhere", because I usually find WNT an exception. Sure, itJ /looks/ like it supports portable functions at first glance, but when whenF you look close enough it's usually an illusion. There's always a twistD somewhere that forces you to redesign it around something inherently! Windows. Gee, I'm so surprised...S   Shanea            D Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>@ruckus.brouhaha.com on 06/01/2001 11:43:12 AM  ? Please respond to Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>p  " Sent by:  eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com     To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt cc:o  B Subject:  Re: Emacs on VMS (was: Re: WANTED: GNU GCL For OpenVMS.)    3 Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes: 0 > And people wonder why others hate Unix code :}  A Oh yeah, as if VMS code is more easily ported to other platforms.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:31:59 GMTr( From: "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com>> Subject: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager6 Message-ID: <3uWR6.58642$we.9695615@typhoon.kc.rr.com>  L Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.  ButK I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Manager and.K I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of the jobcI websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area or ae* website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. --     Thanks,   
 Richard Bjersy Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:41:57 -0400a( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>B Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager+ Message-ID: <3B183655.C334477F@bigfoot.com>o   How many years experience? Perm or contract?s# What's your desired salary or rate?c Are you willing to relocate?  N I may know some perm positions or contracts you might try for depending on the above info.    HM   Rich Bjers wrote:I  N > Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.  ButM > I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Manager andmM > I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of the jobuK > websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area or ad, > website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. > -- >o	 > Thanks,y >r > Richard Bjerse > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Jun 2001 05:03:38 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> B Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager0 Message-ID: <3b1873e6$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  J Well, I just went to www.dice.com and used the search terms VMS an MANAGERL and came up with 229 matches.  These include several in New York and Chicago. as well as California, Pennsylvania and Texas.  L Now, yes there is a lot of chaf here, but there are jobs in the catagory you$ are looking for from what I can see.  J A search of a similar nature on www.hotjobs.com gives 19 results, on is at Perdue, in Indiana.b  
 Good Luck!   --
 Bill Pedersen  CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learning 
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  5 "Hamlyn Mootoo" <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in messageT% news:3B183655.C334477F@bigfoot.com...a > How many years experience? > Perm or contract?h% > What's your desired salary or rate?M > Are you willing to relocate? >rL > I may know some perm positions or contracts you might try for depending on thek
 > above info.T >  > HM >E > Rich Bjers wrote:u >aK > > Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.) ButAK > > I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Managerr and K > > I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of the  job K > > websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area ors ao. > > website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. > > -- > >l > > Thanks,r > >t > > Richard Bjers  > > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com >=   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:23:39 GMTI- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)eK Subject: Re: FILESERV: Added OMI (was Re: Anyone know what happened to OMI)t1 Message-ID: <3b17dd6f.104589301@news.process.com>9  P On Fri, 01 Jun 2001 16:14:11 GMT, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote:  K >Thanks to Ed James, who was able to connect and grab the files, I've added5G >OMI to my freeware archives.  You can find it using one of these URLs:i >d  >http://www.process.com/openvms/ >24 >ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/omi.zip  C D'oh!  A Zipping error on my part created a file with both V1.0 andoA V2.0 in it.  I've fixed the OMI.ZIP file, so if you downloaded itaB before, you might want to download it again to get a cleaner copy.  , Thanks again to Ed, who spotted what I done.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/-9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/m   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:06:38 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>2Y Subject: Re: HOW to config and start decnet. was( Can't SET HOST to clustermemberADDENDUMl' Message-ID: <3B181FFE.DA087FC0@iee.org>e  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:e > now, given the option of :/ > $ edit/tpu sys$startup:net$csmacd_startup.nclT
 > ^B^Ureplace  > ESAv > EZA. > exit0 > $ MC NCL DO sys$startup:net$csmacd_startup.ncl >  > or > $ @SYS$STARTUP:NET$CONFIGUREE > with all of its questions, areas to make mistakes, possibilities of-L > changing things that shouldn't really be changed etc etc etc it's probablyM > going to be easier for Tom to do the search and replace.  Even if he has to-6 > do $ SEARCH SYS$STARTUP:*.NCL ESA before he does it. >   0 I've missed the previous bits of this thread but/ the above advice will only work right up to the 4 next time that NET$CONFIGURE gets run. At that point3 it puts the NCL files back the way (it thinks) theyo
 should be.  * The only correct way to fix this is to run' NET$CONFIGURE and persuade it to do the  device section again.r   Antonioi   -- f   ---------------n- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 06:29:34 +0200t, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>Y Subject: Re: HOW to config and start decnet. was( Can't SET HOST to clustermemberADDENDUMk% Message-ID: <3B186BAE.65C3B52@gmx.ch>a   "antonio.carlini" wrote: > 2 > I've missed the previous bits of this thread but1 > the above advice will only work right up to thee6 > next time that NET$CONFIGURE gets run. At that point5 > it puts the NCL files back the way (it thinks) theye > should be. > , > The only correct way to fix this is to run) > NET$CONFIGURE and persuade it to do the. > device section again./  G Looks like this is exactly what I wanted to say but I didn't catch that B we were talking about the DECnet interface and not the TCP/IP one. :-(o   D. -- mB Compaq Computer (Schweiz) GmbH, Ueberlandstrasse 1, 8600 Dubendorf<      All opinions expressed are my own and not my employer's   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Jun 2001 00:19:13 GMT' From: prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN)s Subject: Re: hszterm softwaree: Message-ID: <20010601201913.11933.00000057@ng-fo1.aol.com>  O if you are going solaris on hsg80's, for example, Compaq recommand the platformoA kit (SWCC that actually works for a change) supplied for Solaris..  O  This gives GUI based PC config diagram of controllers and disks and you can dolM all the hszterm stuff there. I've used it and it knocks hszterm into a cocked- hat.   regardsa   paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:08:52 -0500j1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: hszterm softwares' Message-ID: <3B183CA4.D6B510C4@fsi.net>    PROSULLIVAN wrote: > Q > if you are going solaris on hsg80's, for example, Compaq recommand the platformcC > kit (SWCC that actually works for a change) supplied for Solaris.n > Q >  This gives GUI based PC config diagram of controllers and disks and you can dolO > all the hszterm stuff there. I've used it and it knocks hszterm into a cockedt > hat.  " So let's see if I understand this:  E In order to manage my OpenVMS storage "farm", I have to run SWCC on an; connected Sun box so I can pull up the GUI on a Wintel box.a   Did I get that right?   E If so, am I the only one who thinks that something is wrong with that  picture?  ? ...and then, of course, the question remains: how do I split my D HSx-based mirror-sets for BACKUP from an OpenVMS batch job using the foregoing scenario?o   -- m David J. Dachteraj dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 02:27:37 GMTi$ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> Subject: Re: hszterm softwares) Message-ID: <3B184F8C.703CD114@wi.rr.com>a   No, that's not correct.l  M There is a scripting tool for VMS that will let you talk directly to the HSGsd) without any Solaris or NT boxes involved.   < SWCC bites the big one.  If you need to have a GUI to manage( your HSGs, buy the Management Appliance.   -Scott   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > PROSULLIVAN wrote: > > S > > if you are going solaris on hsg80's, for example, Compaq recommand the platformtE > > kit (SWCC that actually works for a change) supplied for Solaris.  > >uS > >  This gives GUI based PC config diagram of controllers and disks and you can dotQ > > all the hszterm stuff there. I've used it and it knocks hszterm into a cockeds > > hat. >e$ > So let's see if I understand this: >oG > In order to manage my OpenVMS storage "farm", I have to run SWCC on aW= > connected Sun box so I can pull up the GUI on a Wintel box.n >t > Did I get that right?o >mG > If so, am I the only one who thinks that something is wrong with thatp
 > picture? >(A > ...and then, of course, the question remains: how do I split myrF > HSx-based mirror-sets for BACKUP from an OpenVMS batch job using the > foregoing scenario?B >t > -- > David J. Dachtera= > dba DJE Systems= > http://www.djesys.com/ >=< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >=B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:37:35 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br3# Subject: Re: ICC and Memory ChannelrL Message-ID: <OF00D88142.5F7C0844-ON03256A5E.0060AC6B@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  ( Should Memory Channel be used to build a" Supercomputer running OpenVMS ????   Regardsp  
 Fabio Cardosok        C hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) em 01/06/2001 14:33:54I  > Favor responder a hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       # Assunto: Re: ICC and Memory Channeld    K In article <cZOR6.356955$o9.57095428@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "john nixon"n <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:eI :...I finally have them interested in ICC (to replace mailboxes and otherR :services), and Memory Channel.p  K   Memory channel is a CPU-intensive interconnect, suitable for environments-G   where extra CPU overhead can be traded off for I/O performance.  That2 said, E   I would NOT focus on any particular interconnect -- the core reasonn behindG   ICC was to permit programmers access to ANY interconnect supported by- SCS.  / :...They are interested, but believe it or not,c/ :they do not have internet (browsing) access...|  3   Gee, I think I'd try to fix that problem first...   A :...Can someone point me to something I can send them to get themnE :started. I am not a programmer, so it is difficult for me to explain| systemI :services to them. Our new ES40s will have memory channel, but none of us- are-G :exactly sure how to use it or what we need to do (if anything) to take- :advantage of it.a  3   Just use ICC, and forget about specific adapters.   H   I would assume you have the documentation CD-ROM or similar -- if not,H   please obtain it and web-serve this media to your programmers.  ThoughG   for programmers working directly and regularly with OpenVMS, there is E   arguably no substitute for having access to hardcopy documentation.   I   As for programming with system services, most any programmer on OpenVMSaI   would benefit from reading through the programming concepts manual.  WeNH   have been making updates and adding examples to this manual and to the;   system service reference manual over the last releases...l  0  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------XJ       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com2  --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- /    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering. hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:15:33 +0100r+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>rG Subject: Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?w' Message-ID: <3B182215.37A4C2AB@iee.org>o   Tim Llewellyn wrote: > ? > $       backup/verify/select=([xxx.yyy.]*.*;*) mka500:z.sav -r+ >         disk$user1:[xxx.zzz.yyy]*.*;*/LOGh3 > %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification passI > D > ?, no files have been selected, why rewind the tape and reread the
 > saveset?  - Obviously it needs to re-read all none of the * files that it has restored to ensure that # all none of them have no errors :-)   - Seriously, it's easy to see how someone might5+ forget to skip the verification phase if it-
 is redundant.-  ' In fact, given the sometimes convolutedo) code in there, I'd leave it alone and put-( up with a little lack of optimisation to* avoid de-stabilising it. Hit ^C if you are/ around - you don't care  if you are not around.a   Antoniot   -- g   ---------------h- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgc   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:14:56 GMToL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")T Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9 - Command procedure used as CGI is displayed, not executed.8 Message-ID: <009FCE3E.76411CD9@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  P In article <9f87vb$eul$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>, Bob Sudderth <rsq@ornl.gov> writes: >> 5K >> (What happens when you try this with, eg, Netscape 3.03?  Does it work?)a >> s >3.03 acts exactly the same. >lD >I did a little more reading ("Writing Real Programs in DCL", secondI >edition, p327), and found the statement "CGI scripts run as a subprocess}B >of the web server...".  I had assumed, wrongfully so, that it wasG >possible to operate the browser without a web server (until I tried tolH >run a CGI script, I was doing just that).  This is unfortunate since weI >lose a lot when we go to the server.  Perhaps a hack (enhancement) is in  >order.n  K That's quite a hack, since it means making the web browser manage a lot of  J stuff that isn't its business and isn't likely to be portable.  (That is, L it needs to know a whole lot about the environment its running in and manage( a lot of negotiation with subprocesses.)  K You can definitely run the browser against files, but not if you want CGIs.M   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================80  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210pO ===============================================================================a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:24:49 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> 8 Subject: Re: Need VAX maintenance documentation urgently' Message-ID: <3B181631.B874E7F4@iee.org>i  
 josezb wrote:rH > I received a Maintenance Product Recommendation from Compaq's AssistedH > Services Group in which they quote an "MDS ON PC CD/1YR UPDATES" (PartD > # MD-CDRPC-01).  This CD is supposed to have all the documentationE > available.  I have the list of documents included, but I can't tellc  : It's unlikely to have *all* the documentation. It probably7 has more than enough to keep the VS4000-90 and VAX 7000 < humming along nicely, but it will probably miss out anything8 from much before 1990 (if you are doing self-maintenance) you need to think about peripherals too).   G > from the titles if they are what's needed to maintain these machines.tG > I'm currently trying to buy it to see if it's what I need, but Compaqp( > is having trouble making it available.  : Really? It is (or was) a 3 CD set and would set a customer4 back something like $5000 per annum ... I would have' thought they'd have couriered one round-' straight away wrapped in an invoice :-).  2 I *believe* that this CD set is produced quarterly6 and pressed by an external vendor. I ordered a similar0 CD set some years ago and the deal was that they* would place orders with the pressing plant8 every quarter and the plant would then deliver something1 like six to nine weeks after that. Throw in a few 3 extra weeks for it to be posted from COMPAQ to you. / If you are unlucky (liek I was) you could wait .0 5-6 months (by which time my machine was back in6 action ...), if you are lucky it could be as little as	 3 months.o  C > Somewhere someone must know what documentation DEC provided theirg> > self-maintenance customers  I need to speak to that person.  5 Before CDs, we used to order whatever sounded nearesta6 to the Technical Manual for whichever machine we cared; about. Then we would scour that manual for docs that lookedn like they might be useful.  6 BTW: you are very unlikely to be able to find anything6 to allow you to do component level repair on either of4 those machines (even assuming you have the necessary5 *expensive* re-working stations to cope with the highO5 density IC packages). Board-level repair (i.e. board D2 swapping and cable pulling) is certainly possible.  3 Look for system maintenance manuals and illustrated. parts breakdowns (IPBs).     Antonioj   --     ---------------.- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:37:40 +0000 (UTC)! From: <sasrrx888er_666@yahoo.com>s& Subject: News from ANNA KOURNAKOVA !!!* Message-ID: <9f95fk$3ku$1347@news.ukr.net>   ANNA KOURNAKOVA     NEW Anna Kournikova - Topless!!!( Brand new Anna topless shot collection, 0 these are totally genuine and show just what an " amazing arse and tits she has!!!! d Totally exclusive to McCelebs, sneaked papparazzi shot of the tennis super minx sunbathing topless, E Beutiful tits!! Unbelievable body!!. This one can't be missed Picturej= Watch Anna show her bra and panties during this match  Movie dH New in shot of Anna showing just how sweaty a game of tennis can be!!!!  http://darkhole.com/celebsserf   http://darkhole.com/celebsserf	 Hutchenceo  fucks Paula Yates upT  the ass!!new! 3  Amazing shots never  seen on the web - pluse  shots of Paula giving  INXS singer a blow job. a http://darkhole.com/celebsserf    Prince Edwards bridea  flashes her tits!!new!   Candid topless shots of  the latest addition to theb  Royal Family!   http://darkhole.com/celebsserf    PAMELA Fucks Brett   Michaels!!new!   She's at it again... this  time fucking and suckingo  9 inches of pussy  splitting meat attached toy  Poison's lead singer -   Video and stills are even  better than Pam &  Tommy!  http://darkhole.com/celebsserf   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:47:42 -04000 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca.spammenot>0 Subject: Re: Open RMS files from DCL via TCP/IP?7 Message-ID: <JjRR6.4195$Ln4.586320@weber.videotron.net>-  K May I suggest you use DECnet over IP. That is, keep DECnet running, but usemK IP transport over your WAN? Like this you don;t need to have DECnet traffict on your WAN...   It works perfectly.6  J Tell your network admin it is nonsense to remove DECnet from VMS. Even forL local things (on same node) it may be helpful to use it to access files thatJ you don't normally have access to using the file protection. If you do notE want to have the file prot=W=REW you can give the user the username +mI password of the owner of the file, or someone else who can access it, andp& then the file can be opened by DECnet.K Of course you can use ACL's for this but then who will manage them... I cand8 hardly remember the few places where I had to use ACL's. --   Syltrem.; http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site)-> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  L "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> a crit dans le message news:A rdeininger-0106011310580001@user-2ivec16.dialup.mindspring.com...t? > In article <9f8bbs$ehe$1@news.netmar.com>, Me@home.com wrote:d >aH > > Well, the question is in the title. I have a bunch of DCL procedures whichA > > dide@ > > remote RMS access via DECnet. They should now run on systems (Alpha/OpenVMSK > > 7.2-1) where DECnet is not running anymore (and will probably never run  > > again).N > > I > > Is there an easy way to open a file from DCL via IP without having toE write aaI > > piece of C/Fortran/Macro/xxx code? I know I can do DECnet over IP butt the 
 > > system > > manager said "no". >c >cL > The system manager is perhaps a fool.  DECnet over tcpip will let your DCLD > and RMS-based code run unchanged.  And it is friendly with today's, > least-common-denominator network hardware. >h > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:12:50 -0500i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h0 Subject: Re: Open RMS files from DCL via TCP/IP?' Message-ID: <3B17F742.D2017D35@fsi.net>s   Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: > N > Bring up the NFS server on the remote machine(s) and mount the appropriatelyR > exported directories from the client machine, that way your DCL procedures think > that the files are local.c  F Slick! When I get my hobby VMS machines back up and running, I may tryD that just to see how well it works (Multinet, not sure which version right now).r   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:53:40 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kits (was: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.2, DECnet-plus anl2 Message-ID: <U1VR6.973$fi2.25354@news.cpqcorp.net>  Y In article <1010601162814.60257A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:r  F :...And those of us with TK50 MDDS contracts were left swinging in the :breeze?...r  J   I am not familiar with the kitting or distribution problems reported in I   this thread -- with the DECnet-Plus V7.2-1 for OpenVMS VAX kits -- but CI   I do know that OpenVMS VAX release distribution kits after OpenVMS VAX tK   V7.3 are expected to be available only on CD-ROM media, as we are simply aL   unable to acquire the necessary TK50 cartridge media for the distribution    kits.r  G   That said, I can pass along (email) queries on the DECnet-Plus V7.2-1wH   (tape) kitting and shipping directly to the DECnet product manager, if   that would be of interest.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:29:11 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.2, DECnet-plus and DNVOSIECO3 6 Message-ID: <1010601162814.60257A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  4 On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:   >   > You're missing something.  :-) > M > At a similar time to the release of DECnet/OSI v7.2-1 for Alpha there was a C > release for VAX as well.  It may be on the SW Layered Products CDt > distribution.o >   B And those of us with TK50 MDDS contracts were left swinging in the breeze?.  $ > From my VAXstation 4000 model 90 : >  > Characteristics  > ) >     Implementation                    = 
 >        {
 >           [r  >           Name = OpenVMS VAX ,  >           Version = "V7.2    " >           ] ,o
 >           [t, >           Name = DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS ,V >           Version = "DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Version V7.2-1 19-MAY-1999 20:56:23.83"
 >           ]j
 >        } >  > Steve. >  > Bart Zorn asked: > >>>4E > Did anyone try to install ECO3 for DECnet-plus on OpenVMS VAX V7.2?o > G > The kit requires DECnet-OSI V7.2-1 as a prerequisite! Kind of hard to 	 > comply!v > <<<  >  >  >    -- o John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:49:34 +0200, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.n0spam.nl>9 Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX V7.2, DECnet-plus and DNVOSIECO3i; Message-ID: <3b17ffc1$0$19590$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>s  D In the mean time I found out that ECO 1 and 2 have the same problem.  H I didn't check all condist's for intermediate versions, because I saw no reason to expect something.s  K However, I used SYS$UPDATE:PCSI$REGISTER_PRODUCT.COM to register DECNET_OSIm( V7.2-1 and then I could install the ECO.  & The whole thing remains strange to me.  	 Bart Zorno  - "John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in messagem0 news:1010601162814.60257A-100000@Ives.egh.com...6 > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: >  > >e" > > You're missing something.  :-) > >rI > > At a similar time to the release of DECnet/OSI v7.2-1 for Alpha there  was anE > > release for VAX as well.  It may be on the SW Layered Products CDp > > distribution.  > >  >fD > And those of us with TK50 MDDS contracts were left swinging in the	 > breeze?m >o& > > From my VAXstation 4000 model 90 : > >g > > Characteristicsi > > + > >     Implementation                    =e > >        { > >           [e" > >           Name = OpenVMS VAX ," > >           Version = "V7.2    " > >           ] ,o > >           [o. > >           Name = DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS ,K > >           Version = "DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Version V7.2-1 19-MAY-1999o 20:56:23.83" > >           ]a > >        } > > 
 > > Steve. > >D > > Bart Zorn asked: > > >>>CG > > Did anyone try to install ECO3 for DECnet-plus on OpenVMS VAX V7.2?u > >mI > > The kit requires DECnet-OSI V7.2-1 as a prerequisite! Kind of hard tod > > comply!n > > <<<f > >f > >e > >0 >0 > --
 > John Santos  > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 >    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2001 15:06:37 -0700h< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)< Subject: Re: Pathworks V5.0F ECO2+W2Kpatch  W2K+SP2 problems= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0106011406.1f06756f@posting.google.com>    <rant>  D > In addition to the problem you noted, I've found a couple of other0 > problems with Pathworks 5.0f and Windows 2000:  C *sigh*  Don't you wish you too could write software like Redmonites A and never have to worry about backward compatibility?  "Backwardso6 compatibility" -- feh! It's such a nuisance, isn't it?  C The Minions of Gates, of course, would recommend that you ditch theeC OpenVMS solution and buy a brand new Windoze 2000 Server to replace * it.  "VMS isn't compatible!" they'd cry...   </rant>. Aarono --  OpenVMS: the OS MS wanted NT 2B.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 01:11:43 -04002 From: "MikeG" <michael.green{remove}@videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: Pathworks V5.0F ECO2+W2Kpatch  W2K+SP2 problems7 Message-ID: <5A_R6.6206$Ln4.813355@weber.videotron.net>   
 Gentlemen,I something to consider with the new SP2 is that MS has heightened security  withG this new version and as such the authentication level may have changed.eE Traditionally Windows 2K was fully backward compatible towards Lanman K authentication, however the inherent security weakness with it's clear texty passwordH passing may have forced MS to offer the client with the higher NTlv2 and KerberosJ in place.  I recall reading about 5 levels of authentication level support
 somewhere,G and a lower level with Lanman support could be selected with a registryx setting.  K Just a thought in case it can help.  I would say upgrade, but I'm biased sos	 give it a-' shot if you want to try to make it work.   Mike G.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:53:10 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>' Subject: Re: PCSI and Account creation.-& Message-ID: <3B1800B5.BD205173@gmx.ch>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:d ../..oJ > So, if you're only depositing files with the PCSI kit and then using theJ > configuration procedure that you've delivered with the PCSI kit when youH > did your PRODUCT INSTALL command, should the account really be createdJ > using the account statement in the PCSI$DESCRIPTION file or is it betterH > practice to carry out the account creation in the configuration phase?  B I understand better. May I suggest you have a look at the notes in( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstal?  F To summarize my (personal) advice: PCSI is intended to INSTALL, then aB configuration phase will take place once the product is installed.  H This is a better philosophy as it allows the system manager to modify orF reconfigure the product without having to reexecute the KITINSTAL.COM,D of course. In two words, yes, an account creation is an installationI action. Changing parameters in it or in its environment is configuration.i  E Hope that helps (and I believe you, do not worry, you are a Customer, H the most important person in a Company life, even before the employees).   D. --  B Compaq Computer (Schweiz) GmbH, Ueberlandstrasse 1, 8600 Dubendorf<      All opinions expressed are my own and not my employer's   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Jun 2001 00:16:57 GMT' From: prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN)e* Subject: Re: Performance Monitoring on VMS: Message-ID: <20010601201657.11933.00000056@ng-fo1.aol.com>  I OK, Fortel looks OK, but gives a fairly limited set of metrics, I believewO because they only use system services to dig out their VMS performance info :(. B Much better bet is PAWZ - over 250 VMS metrics, and works on otherJ unmentionable OS's - with VMS only the ECP collector is free as is the ECPJ analyzer. The web-based PAWZ has a better analyzer than Fortel and ECP and- (except for the knowledge base) CA Unicenter.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:47:04 -0400+ From: "brian corbin" <b_corbin@hotmail.com> ; Subject: Re: Self-maintenance of legacy DEC products - HELP 2 Message-ID: <jhSR6.964$fi2.25244@news.cpqcorp.net>  L I used to deal with a self-maintenace customer , but in those days they sent out microfiche for all documentation.  D There is a 3 cdrom set titled  Digital Branded Products  Maintenance Documentation services attached is the readme filen  4   Compaq Maintenance Documentation Service on CD-ROM   DIGITAL-branded Products  9   Compaq Assisted Services, Multivendor Customer Services=     November 2000      Compaq Computer CorporationU   Houston, Texas     __________________    1        Copyright 2000 Compaq Computer Corporationt  5        Compaq, the Compaq logo registered U.S. Patent0        and Trademark Office.  5        The information in this document is subject to 8        change without notice and should not be construed6        as a commitment by Compaq Computer Corporation.-        Compaq Computer Corporation assumes noe8        responsibility for any errors that appear in this        document.  ;        The software described in this document is furnished'8        under a license and may be used or copied only in1        accordance with the terms of such license.   >        No responsibility is assumed for the use or reliability7        of software on equipment that is not supplied bys6        Computer Computer Corporation or its affiliated        companies.h  =        U.S. Government Customers:  Consistent with FAR 12.211tB        and 12.212, Commercial Computer Software, Computer SoftwareA        Documentation, and Technical Data for Commercial Items are >        licensed to the U.S. Government under vendor's standard        commercial license.            Description  ;        Maintenance Documentation Service on CD-ROM contains 3        the following types of hardware information:o          Installation Informationl        User Information         Service Information"        Troubleshooting Information        Maintenance Information)        IPBs (Illustrated Parts Breakdown)q        Windows Help files         BLITZes'        Field Change Order Documentationg        FSL Revision Control       =        This CD-ROM set uses 3 discs.  They are divided acrossn'        the set in the following manner:t             Disc 1:a    - Installation programe  3         - Alpha and VAX Based Systems documentatione  <         - Service Advisory BLITZes (duplicated on each disc)           - Cluster documentation.  >         - Field Change Orders (FCOs) (duplicated on each disc)  &         - System Options documentation  @         - FSL Revison Control Document (duplicated on each disc)  ;         - A folder (/doc) containing files that list title,e?           filename of all manuals in the CD set, as well as newd*           manuals added with this release.  2           (this folder is duplicated on each disc)             Disc 2:y  ,  - DIGITAL PC, DIGITAL Servers documentation  "  - MIPS/RISC Systems documentation     - Network Devices documentation    - Power Supplies documentationr  $  - Cabinets/Enclosures documentation             Disc 3:o  7  - Storage Devices documentation (Disks, Tapes, etc...)     - Printer documentation  #  - Terminals/Monitors documentationl    "        Minimum System Requirements  3         - x86-based personal computer (386 minimum)   A         - Microsoft Windows 95, Windows 98, Microsoft Windows NT,a        or Windows 2000           - 8 MB application RAM  ?         - 10 MB hard disk space, plus 7 MB additional temporary-2           disk space available during installation            Installation   7         You can run the setup.exe file from the Programs<         Manager or simply double click on the setup.exe file9         located in the top level of Disc 1 of your CD-ROMp8         set.  Only Disc 1 of this set contains the Adobe,         Acrobat Search for CD-ROMs software.  6         Important:  You should re-install the software5         with each release of MDS to take advantage of +         any changes or added functionality.b  6         Each disc in the set has an index file that is6         searchable with Acrobat Search.  These indexes4         are at the top level of the disc and must be:         selected within Acrobat Reader in order to perform:         a search.  If you only have one CD drive, you will9         need to mount each disc in the set and select thes=         index.  Indexes are named mdsdisc1.pdx, mdsdisc2.pdx,s         and mdsdisc3.pdx.             Navigation Tips  =         If you wish to search Disc 2 or 3 of this set and youy9         only have access to one CD-ROM drive, you need toV:         swap discs after installation from Disc 1 has been         completed.  B         Users with 3 or more CD-ROM drives will benefit from being;         able to search the entire content of the 3-Disc set          at one time.  9         In addition, there is a file residing in the \doc0?         directory of each disc, named locate.txt which providesh9         titles, filenames and disc location of all files.r  :         Whatsnew.txt, also in the \doc directory lists any>         manuals and/or bulletins that are new to this release.            On-line Helpe  :         On-line Help with using Acrobat Search for CD-ROMs4         is available from the menu bar.  It provides>         information on performing searches, customizing, using         bookmarks, etc.R          # system specific manuals and part#'so    L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----  
 Service Guidee' KA675/KA680/KA690 CPU Maintenance GuidebB This guide describes the procedures and tests used to maintain andK troubleshoot VAX 4000 Model 400, 500, and 600 systems, which use the KA675,m& KA680, and KA690 kernel, respectively.! EK-454AA-MG-101 (PDF) 1104 KB MDSt. KA681/KA691/KA692/KA694 CPU System MaintenanceB This guide describes the procedures and tests used to maintain andE troubleshoot VAX 4000 Model 500A, 505A, 600A, 700A, and 705A systems,e! EK-498AB-MG-B01 (PDF) 1170 KB MDSw1 Rack-Mount VAXserver/VAX 4000 System Conver Guide E This conversion guide describes how to install the 680XL-XX (4000-500sG upgrade kit) in the Rack-Mountable VAX/VAXserver 4000 Model 300 system.w  EK-RM430-CG-101 (PDF) 133 KB MDS1 VAX 4000 BA440-Based Systems CPU Conversion Guide ) This guide describes how to convert a VAXmA 4000-300, -400, -500, -500A, -505A, -600, -600A, or -700A system.c  EK-VVKSY-CG-B01 (PDF) 130 KB MDS/ VAX 4000 Model 300 Technical Information Manuald  EK-337AB-TI-201 (PDF) 171 KB MDS7 VAX 4000 Model 300 Troubleshooting & Diagnostics ManualL  EK-386AB-TS-201 (PDF) 217 KB MDS1 VAX 4000 Model 500A/505A/600A/700A/705A Tech Infon  EK-496AB-TI-B01 (PDF) 197 KB MDS2 VAX 4000 Model 500A/505A/600A/700A/705A Troub/Diag  EK-495AB-TS-B01 (PDF) 249 KB MDS' VAX 4000/MV 3100 Additional Error Codes0& CHEETAH-V26-ERR (PDF,BM) 110 KB PROSIC1 VAXserver/VAX 4000-series System Conversion GuideD! EK-VM430-CG-C01 (PDF) 1253 KB MDS4 User's GuideG Compaq Ultra SCSI Adapter For OpenVMS VAX Installation and User's GuidetJ This guide covers the installation and operation of Compaq's complete line of VAX-SCSI Ultra SCSI adaptersr DS-KZCCA-ABk DS-KZCCA-BBf DS-KZCCA-CBl DS-KZCCA-DBW DS-KZMCA-ABh( EK-KZMCA-IN-V01 (PDF,BM) 1482 KB ARCHIVE$ EK-KZMCA-IN-V01 (PDF,BM) 1482 KB MDS/ OpenVMS Sys Operation Guide:VAX/VAXstation 4000)! EK-V4000-OG-A01 (PDF) 1236 KB MDS ; Rack-Mountable VAX 4000 Model 500 Install/Operator's Manual ! EK-4410M-IN-003 (PDF) 4463 KB MDS:! EK-4410M-IN-101 (PDF) 1059 KB MDS ' VAX 4000 BA42B Enclosure System Options ! EK-474AB-OP-C01 (PDF) 2199 KB MDSt# VAX 4000 Model 300 Operation Manuals  EK-336AC-OP-301 (PDF) 957 KB MDS8 VAX 4000 Model 500A/505A/600A/700A/705A Operator's Guide! EK-494AB-OP-B01 (PDF) 1088 KB MDSy IPBo VAX 4000 Model 400 IPB  EK-675AA-IP-A01 (PDF) 180 KB MDS VAX 4000 Model 600 System IPB   EK-456AA-IP-A01 (PDF) 177 KB MDS1 VAX 4000 Models 5xxA/6xxA/7xxA Series Systems IPBO  EK-508AB-IP-B01 (PDF) 226 KB MDS
 Release Notesl Firmware Release Notes@ Alpha Systems Firmware Update Version 3.3 Release Notes Overview" AA-PW8YN-TE (PDF,BM) 20 KB ARCHIVE
 Install Guidet9 VAX 4000 (BA400-Based) Systems DSSI Upgrade Install Guidee  EK-VV4SY-IG-B01 (PDF) 737 KB MDS/ VAX 4000 Model 500A/505A/600A/700A/705A Installu! EK-493AB-IN-B01 (PDF) 2097 KB MDSt Upgrade Manual/ VAX 4000 BA42B-Based System DSSI Upgrade ManualC! EK-500AA-UP-A01 (PDF) 2828 KB MDSa  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------w
 Service Guide , VaxStation 4000 model 90 Service Information! EK-KA490-SV-A01 (PDF) 1441 KB MDSi User's GuideG Compaq Ultra SCSI Adapter For OpenVMS VAX Installation and User's GuidepJ This guide covers the installation and operation of Compaq's complete line of VAX-SCSI Ultra SCSI adapters- DS-KZCCA-AB- DS-KZCCA-BBe DS-KZCCA-CB- DS-KZCCA-DB- DS-KZMCA-AB ( EK-KZMCA-IN-V01 (PDF,BM) 1482 KB ARCHIVE$ EK-KZMCA-IN-V01 (PDF,BM) 1482 KB MDS
 Install Guide-* VaxStation 4000 Options Installation Guide! EK-VAXOP-IN-B01 (PDF) 3963 KB MDSn Upgrade ManualC VaxStation 4000 Model 60 to VaxStation 4000 Model 90 Upgrade Manual-  EK-VX690-UP-A01 (PDF) 404 KB MDS	 QuickSpec4        4 "josezb" <josezb@wbmassociates.com> wrote in message7 news:565b7669.0106010723.75ce7669@posting.google.com...6H > I received a Maintenance Product Recommendation from Compaq's AssistedH > Services Group in which they quote an "MDS ON PC CD/1YR UPDATES" (Part > # MD-CDRPC-01).eE > This CD is supposed to have all the documentation available for VAX. > 4000-700 and VS 4000-90., > Is this what I need for self-maintainance?C > Somewhere someone must know what documentation DEC provided their.D > self-maintenance customers - I need to speak to that person to get > some guidance.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:47:56 GMTOB From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>? Subject: Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options 3 Message-ID: <wrRR6.900$v4.39876@www.newsranger.com>-  M On Thu, 31 May 2001 15:06:01 -0400, in article <3B169619.1138CCC@oracle.com>,Z norm lastovica wrote:i >n2 >there is no need to ship a zip/unzip tool.  there0 >is self-etracting ZIP on VMS already that could1 >easily replace the existing DCX stuff.  In fact, 2 >the file types could even remain the same so that2 >there would be little "down-stream" impact to the >existing procedures.  >a; >But, it would be cool for PCSI to be able to automatically@9 >produce a compressed kit source.  The technology used tol >do so is unimportant. >-  8 I probably have not explained myself clearly enough. :-)  E The reason that I suggested the self extraction option was because ofnH strict security VMS sites. I have a problem believing that they would beE happy to be given a .ZIP patch kit and then told to download a publicU  domain unzipper to unzip it. :-)  D Chris was concerned about the overhead of self-extracting kits, so aC alternative acceptable to these sites could be to make the unzipperg a _supported_ part of VMS.  K Reading between the lines, are you saying that there is already a supported:H unzip tool, that regardless of compression technology, gives better thanI DCX compression ? If so, I am unaware of it and would like to learn more.    Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP K Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:05:09 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e3 Subject: Re: TCP/IP based printing from VAX/VMS 6.2=$ Message-ID: <3b17d978$1@news.si.com>  C >Would like to get away from the LAT based printing and symbiont we=B >are currently using, and use some TCP/IP based protocol.  SeekingA >recommendations for symbiont software, and an inexpensive box ata3 >the printer (typically HP lasers) to achieve this.   J Many people have good luck with DCPS for the symbiont, although it doesn'tF do LPR/LPD.  Your TCP/IP stack should include and LPR/LPR as well as aE TELNET-protocol symbiont.  We've had good luck with ScriptServer from L GrayMatter Software (http://www.graysoft.com/).  I works with just about and. PCL- or Postscript-based printer you can find.  L On the printer end, we use Jetdirect cards for our HPs.  The non-HPs usually' come with network-attach cards in them.2 --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comtA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comd= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventa< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2001 19:15:32 -0500h+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)s Subject: RE: The future of VMS3 Message-ID: <W2gWdnatwi7a@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  z In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EC6@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes:  J > Since most programmers now either can't program, or refuse to test, what > will you do?  D Buy their software by the millions, if Micro$quish is any indicator.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 02:02:17 +0200d) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>n Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B182D09.638247E2@infopuls.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com] > D > > I would refrain from trying to support C/C++ as common language.< > > Both languages lack the very basics from the point of SW? > > engineering and therefore provide a worst case scenario forr > > porting apps.  > I > It's interesting to note that I can't think of much commercial softwarenH > that's not written in C/C++ these days.  Perhaps rather than porting aI > modern application, one should consider looking for an older one with a A > solid foundation and doing a port/enhancement at the same time.-  : Is there a classification in what PL apps are implemented?@ Why not take a decent TurboPascal/Delphi app and port it to VMS?  M > It's unfortunate that web browsers are probably too new to do this with.  AtN > web browser in ADA would be interesting.  As a matter of preference, I don'tJ > like ADA too well, but it seems well supported, and is relatively solid.J > Most of the problems I see with web browsers are in memory allocation, I > assume, from sloppy C. :)h  < Ada or DEC Pascal would be a very nice programming platform.  
 > Regards, >  > Chrish > # > Christopher Smith, Perl Developerh > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  > 'm   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 02:09:08 +0200t) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>i Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B182EA4.919A3AE7@infopuls.com>   Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > 0 > At 10:29 AM 6/1/2001, Christopher Smith wrote:  > > > -----Original Message-----6 > > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com] > >rF > > > I would refrain from trying to support C/C++ as common language.> > > > Both languages lack the very basics from the point of SWA > > > engineering and therefore provide a worst case scenario for  > > > porting apps.m > > J > >It's interesting to note that I can't think of much commercial softwareI > >that's not written in C/C++ these days.  Perhaps rather than porting aaJ > >modern application, one should consider looking for an older one with aB > >solid foundation and doing a port/enhancement at the same time. > >.N > >It's unfortunate that web browsers are probably too new to do this with.  AO > >web browser in ADA would be interesting.  As a matter of preference, I don'tSK > >like ADA too well, but it seems well supported, and is relatively solid.oK > >Most of the problems I see with web browsers are in memory allocation, I  > >assume, from sloppy C. :) > 1 > Caveat emptor: not trying to slam anybody here!d > M > You know, it's interesting the way software engineering vis-a-vis languages M > has transmogrified over the years.  It used to be the responsibility of thecL > engineer to write good code.  Now it seems to be the responsibility of theN > language constructs to FORCE the engineer to write good code.  Hence, state-N > ments like languages lacking "the very basics from the point of SW engineer- > ing".  > L > Maybe that's good for the kids just coming out of college, but (showing myL > age - I wrote my first BASIC program 27 years ago!) as for me, I mourn the6 > passing of the "real art" of software engineering...  > To clearify one point: you can write good apps in almost every; language but it needs more effort to do it in e.g. C or C++_> because especially these language lack too much from the point@ of SW engineering. A simple example might be sufficient: how the> compiler handles header files is not safe against some kind of6 modification (of these header files) which can lead to completely corrupt binaries.  ? IIUYC the art of SW engineering is way beyond the problems witho@ which the average C/C++ is coping. And, agreed, time constraints> lower the quality of engineering work in almost every company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 02:14:13 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>i Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B182FD5.5D53DF2C@infopuls.com>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > ) > Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:b > N > > Maybe that's good for the kids just coming out of college, but (showing myN > > age - I wrote my first BASIC program 27 years ago!) as for me, I mourn the8 > > passing of the "real art" of software engineering... > C > While I share the sentiment, to some degree, I do think "art" andeD > "engineering" don't go well together. The top item of merit, in myC > opinion, for any engineering-related activity is reliability - orr@ > do you find it appropriate that you wonderfully designed houseH > suddenly collapses because you happened to kick it in the wrong place? > G > Also, I think the computer should take care of the trivial accountingtD > things it is so good at, and I am so bad at, mostly because I willG > become bored and/or lazy: making sure assignments actually could meantH > something, pointers point to allocated memory and not elsewhere, arrayH > indices are in-range, and such things. The problem with languages suchK > as C and C++ is that they offer too many possibilities to violate simple,a, > stupid rules without telling you about it. > K > It seems there is a cultural difference between the US and Europe in this L > regard. I have been told that it is quite acceptable to tell people - evenJ > customers - in the US, "don't do that, or something horrible will happenF > (e.g., delete all your work, start WW III)". In Europe, such missingG > interlocks usually result in incredulity and a strong desire to check L > whether "they" really had the chutzpah to release a piece of software withK > such characteristics. Thus, WW III will start in Europe at some presentlye! > undetermined future time 8-)...s > 
 >         Jan   < This is an interesting question if this is really a cultural difference.C< I completely share you opinion about PLs especially with the? analysis that the computer should be used for the things it canr@ do best and releave the human beeing from that stupid tasks. But> I think that in the USA the competition is a little bit harder? and therefore the presure on the programmer is higher. The idea8? of good enough SW is a result of that presure. I'm wondering ifB7 Europe will feel this presure soon and react similarly. 7 Challanger and Ariane V will not be the only "victims".e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 02:17:03 +0200e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>a Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B18307F.D77D95D8@infopuls.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----0 > > From: Dan O'Reilly [mailto:dano@process.com] > ; > > You know, it's interesting the way software engineering  > > vis-a-vis languagesh9 > > has transmogrified over the years.  It used to be then > > responsibility of theb8 > > engineer to write good code.  Now it seems to be the > > responsibility of thecA > > language constructs to FORCE the engineer to write good code.i > >  Hence, state-@ > > ments like languages lacking "the very basics from the point > > of SW engineer-h	 > > ing".d > > > > > Maybe that's good for the kids just coming out of college, > > but (showing my > > > age - I wrote my first BASIC program 27 years ago!) as for > > me, I mourn the 8 > > passing of the "real art" of software engineering... > M > I agree completely.  It's a shame that people don't know how to program anyV	 > more :/w > J > It's also a shame that, since they don't know how to program, they don't > produce good code ;) > J > Since most programmers now either can't program, or refuse to test, what > will you do? > J > Personally, I believe that you should choose a language which is more orI > less restrictive depending on the scale and scope of a project, but any J > language for the "unwashed masses" will have to be idiot-proof today, orM > you'll get no software.  As much as you or I would like to, we can't say to L > all of the clueless programmers in the world "Go home and play solitaire."M > Eventually, somebody will get us into a situation where we have to use some M > of the slime that those people produce, and I'd rather the languages forced J > them to make it less "slimy." :)  The current popular languages don't do > this.- > M > I'm not saying it's good that it's come to this, but it's justified becaused' > that's the state of the profession :/d > 
 > Regards, >  > Chrisp > # > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");K > 'A  9 Very good idea, similar to a meritocraty: if you are wellm? educated and skillful you can do what you want, you can use thet; PL you like and you have more political and social power. A > newby has to program in a very safe environment, e.g. to write applets in Java.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:20:57 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>b- Subject: Re: VAX / VMS Novice Slits Wrists :(4$ Message-ID: <3b17dd2c$1@news.si.com>  G >2. A 'Digital VAXstation 3100' running 'VAX/VMS 5.4' which I have beenrG >told cannot be connected directly to an IP network but must go via them? >'DEC 3000' box using something called DECnet to allow it to belG >telnetted to via an IP network. This machine also has a VT510 terminal0@ >connected to it which must be used to boot the 'VAXstation' up.  J You may have been misinformed.  VS3100s should play on the IP network justJ fine, provided you have a TCP/IP stack installed.  Also, Attaching a VT510E directly to the VAXstation makes it a VAXserver and changes licensingEJ considerations a great deal.  None of our 30 VAXstations have VTs attachedI to them.  They have keyboards and VR252 (I believe, or similar) monitors.SC It is the keyboard and monitors that define them to be VAXstations.e  ; As to the DECnet error you're seeing, you _could_ just edite8 SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V5.COM and comment out the call toH SYS$MANAGER:STARTNET.COM.  With IP installed, you don't necessarily need DECnet.C --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com:A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent-< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2001 14:26:58 -07000& From: wskibum@pacbell.net (Jim Medlin), Subject: WANTED!  Qbus SCSI drive controller= Message-ID: <a9d42b84.0106011326.43de107a@posting.google.com>5  H I am trying to bring an old MVII back to life and need a Q-bus scsi diskH controller.  I have been prowling Ebay and news groups for nearly a yearH without any luck.  I can buy a new card for 1,500.00 bucks but that kindI of money is more than I'll ever be able to afford for this hobby project.P  L Anybody out there parting out an old system or have a spare they can help me	 out with?u     Thanks   -JM0   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 03:33:27 GMT42 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>0 Subject: Re: WANTED!  Qbus SCSI drive controller4 Message-ID: <b8ZR6.109$D96.6986@typhoon.aracnet.com>  ' Jim Medlin <wskibum@pacbell.net> wrote:-J > I am trying to bring an old MVII back to life and need a Q-bus scsi diskJ > controller.  I have been prowling Ebay and news groups for nearly a yearJ > without any luck.  I can buy a new card for 1,500.00 bucks but that kindK > of money is more than I'll ever be able to afford for this hobby project.X  N > Anybody out there parting out an old system or have a spare they can help me > out with?   J You might want to try looking for an ESDI controller and drives also.  TheH odds are you can find some decent drives and a controller pretty cheap. L SCSI controllers for Q-Bus systems are expensive, my VAXen don't rate them,  my PDP-11's do :^)  E You might also consider looking into a VAXstation 3100 or 4000 seriesz+ machine and boot the MicroVAX II off of it.e   			Zane7   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:31:06 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?$ Message-ID: <3b17df8d$1@news.si.com>   >paybacks will come.  B They're already coming, but they're directed against the customer.K Microsoft has taken a particularly usurious stance with regard to licensingdK and, in October, is going to _force_ people to upgrade to Windows XP and ateI a much higher price that upgrades currently run.  At least, so my company-J has been warned by Microsoft personnel diring the software audit they justK dragged up through.  I guess MS has to make up the money it spent defending # itself and we are all going to pay.R --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com4A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.come= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:33:25 -0500o+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>u2 Subject: RE: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EC7@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Clubleye  = > To move this back to VMS, my concern was that if Microsoft i > win, then they would9 > feel free to go all out into the high-end server area,   > regardless of the = > relative merits of the MS versus non-MS operating systems. a  I A valid concern, and until I see microshaft dead, I won't believe that itfI isn't going to happen.  Personal opinion, of course.  Never underestimateaH the ruthlessness of microshaft or the stupidity of the general populace.  J The question we should be asking here, though, is "what is Compaq going to
 do about it?"n   > People here should< > also remember that people generally do not miss something  > that they have never> > experienced; in other words, if you have never been exposed  > to something; > like VMS, then you will not miss it when you are given a r > Microsoft solution.-  G Not all people -- only most of them.  I know one person who had no ideanJ about VMS, nor had she seen much other than microsoft garbage before I metG her.  She still hated the microsoft "solution," and now she has her ownd& hobbyist VAX.  I plan to marry her. ;)  J Mind you, you don't find many people like that.  I'm sure there are a few.' For the rest, though -- affordable VMS?n   Regards,   Chrise  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developera Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  'L  L   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:26:51 -0400o5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?2 Message-ID: <FOcXO3XSElR1NChywJwnPruphwVe@4ax.com>  2 I can't let this one go ... see my comments below.  3 On Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:50:40 +0100, andrew harrisone! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:2   >  >Jordan Henderson wrote: >>  * >> In article <3B14F209.C0A7D90C@fsi.net>,3 >> David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:. >> >Simon Clubley wrote: >> >> Q >> >> On Tue, 29 May 2001 14:15:11 -0500, in article <3B13F53F.4C55D9C9@fsi.net>," >> >> David J. Dachtera wrote: >> >> > N >> >> >Yes, certain benefits have been gained by playing ball with the RedmomdK >> >> >bullies. Of late, however, their monopolistic tactics have become so:M >> >> >intolerable that even the Justice Department has seen fit to intervenea, >> >> >(much too little and years too late). >> >> >h >> >>t2 >> >> What is the current Microsoft v DOJ status ? >> >> R >> >> I'm British and live in the UK, so I don't really know which way the currentQ >> >> US administration is likely to go with this. I do know that prior to the US-L >> >> election, the feeling in this newsgroup was that a Bush administrationI >> >> would be less likely to continue with the action against Microsoft.- >> >E >> >Experience with the "Dubbya" admin. tends to bear out the group's-H >> >initial take on the matter. He's a corporate lackey - period, end of >> >statement. >> > >>  E >> I try to avoid political discussions in this forum.  I don't thinkc >> people come here for this.t >> WE >> I can't let this stand unchallenged, however, because Mr. Dachtera E >> seems to have appointed himself spokesman for the group and deignsc. >> to give out our initial take on the matter. >>  E >> Insofar as George W. Bush may or may not be beholding to corporatehD >> interests, I don't feel that the reality is fairly represented by >> putting a period there. >e5 >Hmm, apart from the Tax cuts the other clear policy p4 >the Bush administration has commited themselves to 0 >is to pull out of the Kyoto agreement that the  >Clinton administration signed.   <     The U.S. Senate voted 95-0 against ratification in 1998.> A 2/3 majority of the Senate is required to ratify any treaty.8 Also, only one country (Romania) has ratified it so far.   >t0 >The Bush adminstration did so on the basis of a2 >reinterpretation of the scientific data on global2 >warming that the overwhelming majority of climate+ >change experts have subsequently trashed. h  4     The science of global climate change is anything but certain.  1     The temperature models that show warming overr3 the last 100 years do not adequately take the urban-  heat island affect into account.  ;     Even if the planet is warming, it is most likely normalm4 planetary weather cycles or sunspots and not induced7 by human activity.  Not only that, warming would likely 7 have more positive effects on the planet than negative.-0 Most warming would likely come from higher night5 temperatures and would make additional land availablei for farming.  >     Based on tree ring data, there was a warm trend from about9 1000-1300 A.D. and it is estimated the planet averaged 2Ch@ warmer than now.  Also, the last Little Ice Age lasted from 1400C to 1850.  The warming in the last 150 years took place before 1940.a   >t4 >The real subtext was that the measures necessary to3 >impliment the somewhat limitted set of goals that e7 >Clinton signed up to at Kyoto would hurt big business d4 >and the economy. A short sighted view and one that 5 >will ultimately leave the US behind the EU and most r9 >other developed countries in terms of energy efficiency o9 >and one that will cost the US much more in the long term 7 >when the changes they have put off are forced on them e >by circumstances. >s  ;     If Kyoto were put into affect, it is estimated it wouldi+ change the planetary temperature by -0.07C.a  :     The Kyoto Protocol is not about saving the planet from4 global warming, but is a backhanded way to level the5 economic playing field.  The EU wants to compete witht7 the U.S. by crippling the U.S. economy, not by loweringt5 taxes and allowing it's citizens the economic freedomt to create wealth.t  <     Besides the tax cut, it's President Bush's smartest move so far.i  5 >As someone pointed out, the Easter Islander who cut W3 >down the last tree on the island probably did not  3 >realise the cost of the tree would be measured in g( >the extinction of the Easter Islanders. >> !D >> First of all, in comparison, Bill Clinton was the best friend theF >> huge transnational corporations ever had.  Witness the unbelievable; >> mergers that occurred during the Clinton administration.  >>  E >>         - The largest 3 petrochemical mergers of all time occurrednE >>           during the Clinton administration: Exxon/Mobil, BP/AmocolD >>           and Shell/Texaco (refining & marketing US).  If the oilH >>           companies are gouging, it was only made possible by runaway >>           consolidation.w >> yD >>         - The largest automotive merger Daimler/Chrysler happenedF >>           in 1998.  The Daimer CEO represented this to Americans asC >>           'a marriage of equals' back before it happened, now he1C >>           says that this wasn't a serious statement...  Ford and:F >>           GM have been buying up lots of International auto makers, >>           too.t >>  H >>         - The largest banking/insurance merger of all time, Citibank/G >>           Travelers sailed through even though it was illegal at the H >>           time the merger occurred (!)  Citibank/Travelers merged andH >>           got those pesky banking laws that didn't allow banks to ownI >>           Insurance companies changed after the fact.  While it's true H >>           that Congress is to blame for changing the law, the ClintonI >>           administration had the responsibility to execute the currentoJ >>           law and not just look the other way while this was happening. >>  N >>         - The largest 3 media mergers (Viacom/CBS, Disney/ABC/Cap, AOL/TW).J >>           Wonder why you don't know that Clinton was big bidness's bestI >>           buddy?  The MEDIA didn't report it after all... coincidence?dE >>           (Considerable consolidation also occurred in Newspapers,rH >>           Radio properties, regional television, but these were small- >>           potatoes compared to the above.)  >> pH >> Now, as for Mr. Bush.  The only Bush agenda item that's looks certainJ >> so far is a tax cut that will benefit the poorest tax payers first, andI >> the poorest tax payers get by far the greatest percentage benefit.  NopI >> corporate or capital gains taxes have yet been proposed by Bush, whicheI >> would really benefit his corporate masters, were he the lackey you sayh	 >> he is.  >> lK >> Of course, Mr. Bush maybe listening to some corporate interests, I don'ttI >> deny it.  It's only the John McCain's of the world who seem to believeaM >> that everyone should have free speech, unless you have lots of money, thenn >> you should be silenced. >>  P >> >> Is this likely to still be the case or has the DOJ viewpoint not changed ? >> >I >> >The DOJ tends to be strongly influenced by the feelings of the gov't.  >> >leaders. >> >J >> >> BTW, is there a general move in the US to all things Microsoft or doL >> >> people still regard VMS/Unix/whatever as the correct tools for the job) >> >> when it comes to critical systems ?o >> >K >> >With the release of the news that even the U.S. military is buying intonJ >> >Redmond's bulls--t, the perception that Micro$hit is all things to allI >> >{sheep,lemmings,whatever-works-for-you} is likely to be proliferated.- >> >. >> >> Here in the UK, we have to deal with the >> >> following: >> >>@7 >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19239.htmlD >> >H >> >This is yet another example of Redmond's bully tactics: lock out theK >> >competition, rather than ensuring the greatest possible user base. They J >> >may have achieved their greedy goals in the UK - so be it. My feeling,F >> >however, is that other such entities will be inclined to learn theL >> >lessons of this debacle (no guarantees, naturally) and ban M$ from theirH >> >gov't "portal"s for such counter-competitive, monopolistic nonsense. >> >F >> >Here's a bit of "innovation" I'll bet you'll never see come out ofL >> >Redmond: play nice with the rest of the world, instead of trying to rule >> >it.t >> > >> >-- >> >David J. Dachterao >> >dba DJE Systemss >> >http://www.djesys.com/ >> >> >> >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:# >> >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w >> >J >> >This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings >> >is to be expected. >> >D >> >Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >> >J >> >However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are >> >strongly discouraged.t >> t >> -Jordan Henderson >> jordan@greenapple.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:04:23 -0500i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B17F547.B2765881@fsi.net>t   Simon Clubley wrote: > M > On Thu, 31 May 2001 14:12:26 -0500, in article <3B16979A.3EA1AFBB@fsi.net>," > David J. Dachtera wrote: > >v > >Jordan Henderson wrote: > >>, > >> In article <3B14F209.C0A7D90C@fsi.net>,5 > >> David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:e > >> >Simon Clubley wrote: > >> >> 4 > >> >> What is the current Microsoft v DOJ status ? > >> >>sT > >> >> I'm British and live in the UK, so I don't really know which way the currentS > >> >> US administration is likely to go with this. I do know that prior to the UStN > >> >> election, the feeling in this newsgroup was that a Bush administrationK > >> >> would be less likely to continue with the action against Microsoft.  > >> >G > >> >Experience with the "Dubbya" admin. tends to bear out the group's J > >> >initial take on the matter. He's a corporate lackey - period, end of > >> >statement. > >> > > >>G > >> I try to avoid political discussions in this forum.  I don't thinkJ > >> people come here for this.- > >>G > >> I can't let this stand unchallenged, however, because Mr. DachteraiG > >> seems to have appointed himself spokesman for the group and deigns40 > >> to give out our initial take on the matter. > >lI > >Careful there! I was merely echoing Simon's assessment, and stating an  > >opinion thereafter. > >eF > >YMMV, as always, but Please! ...don't go putting words in my mouth. > >a/ > >(Subsequent political debate items deleted.)T > >a > J > The responses to my original questions, certainly Andrew's, seem to haveO > taken on a political flavour. I would just like to point out that my originalIP > question was _NOT_ based on a political viewpoint and if a Gore administrationN > had developed a "let Microsoft off" approach, I would be equally annoyed andK > concerned. Of course, based on responses here, we still don't know if the / > Bush administration has taken this viewpoint.e > Q > To move this back to VMS, my concern was that if Microsoft win, then they wouldtJ > feel free to go all out into the high-end server area, regardless of theO > relative merits of the MS versus non-MS operating systems. People here shouldWP > also remember that people generally do not miss something that they have neverJ > experienced; in other words, if you have never been exposed to somethingN > like VMS, then you will not miss it when you are given a Microsoft solution.  G Ah, yes - but when BSOD becomes a "household word" (it isn't already?),i= they'll wonder, "Is there not something better in the world?"y  F IMHO, M$ lacks the technical savvy to pose a serious challenge to OVMSE in the data center, contrary to the claims of one of their current ad 
 campaigns.   As always, YMMV considerably.4   -- @ David J. Dachtera5 dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:11:03 -04000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1804D8.7623D6A9@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote:M > Microsoft has taken a particularly usurious stance with regard to licensingbF > and, in October, is going to _force_ people to upgrade to Windows XP  K Read an article on how Microsoft knows that its tradictional revenu sourceswK have dried up because people have gotten tired of upgrading for the sake ofaM upgrading. Once they've managed to install that Microsoft stuff and gotten itdA to run, they would rathe focus on their business than focusing on 4 debugging/installing yet another version of MS crap.  N MS's hopes are that if it gives the big boss the upgraded software (which willJ be incompatible with old versions), the staff will need to upgrade so that2 they can read the boss' bloated MS WORD documents.  G This is going to be a big recession for the PC industry I think becauseAN companies which upgraded their fleets for Y2K will want these machines to lastN at least 3 years. And with the IA64 on the horizon, I think that companies may+ wait a while to see how that chop pans out.O  M As long as the MS stock goes up, MS employees will be getting paid. But if MSrI stocks starts to drop again, Microsoft may eventually be forced to pay it H employees in cash and that may force MS to empty its cash coffers and be severely weakened.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:22:35 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B18078B.42798F4B@videotron.ca>   David Beatty wrote:p= >     If Kyoto were put into affect, it is estimated it wouldp- > change the planetary temperature by -0.07C.n    J So you admit it does have an effect. Now ask yourself the question: by howO much will the temperature rise because the USA has abandonned its commitments ?   L I suggest you go and talk to the researchers who spent winters in the arctic/ and ask what they have notcied in recent years.-  M It is not droughts and warmer temperatures you need to worry about. It is theeK flooding of New York City, Los Angeles, Amsterdam and all other cities thatsK are on the coast. It takes a minuscule change in temperature to lenghen theoM arctic summer long enough to cause more ice to melt than forms during winter.c  L Look at what happened with ozone. Scientists were calling for immediate stopH on use of CFCs for years but politicians were saying "you don't have anyL proof, it would cost too much etc etc". One day, there was scientific proof,J and by the time the proof was found, it require dramatic action VERY fast.L Countries met in Montreal and signed the Montreal protocol to eliminate CFCsL from most of the world (with a few exceptions) in the matter of a few years.  N The world economy did not fail because of that and companies that used to makeD Freon were able to find adequate replacements that are less harmful.  J The message Bush has given by refusing to honour Kyoto is that he does notL beleive that the US economy is capable of adapting to change. By keeping theN US economy the same until the very last minute, Bush is going to cause a majorH disruption because so much of the us economy relies on fossils. (eg: carJ industry). On the other hand, a slow introduction of ever tougher measuresI will force corporations to adapt and develop better products for the long)7 term, so it will be an evolution instead of revolution.s  L The existence of SUVs in the USA is proof that the car manufacturers have noL self control. As soon as price of oil goes down, they build bigger cars thatN eat more fuel. There was a time where the US car manufacturers had learned howN to make small cars. But just before that, Chrysler was bankrupt because it hadM not been ready to change from building large gas guzzlers to building smallerr more fuel efficient cars.?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:24:44 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B18080C.FD437C2C@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:H > IMHO, M$ lacks the technical savvy to pose a serious challenge to OVMSG > in the data center, contrary to the claims of one of their current ad1 > campaigns.   Wrong attitude.4  L MS has the marketing savvy to convince that installing MS in the data centerN is the best solution and will allow you to have compatible software (with your% staff and with the rest of the world)i  N And when ISVs get the message, they will make sure that their software runs on MS crap.  M If you put enough horsepower and only a single application per wintel box, itt can be robust enough.f   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2001 18:08:58 -0400d/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)a2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?* Message-ID: <9f93pq$82f$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <3B17ABC0.C9C5173A@uk.sun.com>,1 andrew harrison  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote:t >h >Jordan Henderson wrote: >> >* >> In article <3B14F209.C0A7D90C@fsi.net>,3 >> David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:h >> >Simon Clubley wrote: >> >> Q >> >> On Tue, 29 May 2001 14:15:11 -0500, in article <3B13F53F.4C55D9C9@fsi.net>,n >> >> David J. Dachtera wrote: >> >> >lN >> >> >Yes, certain benefits have been gained by playing ball with the RedmomdK >> >> >bullies. Of late, however, their monopolistic tactics have become sooM >> >> >intolerable that even the Justice Department has seen fit to intervener, >> >> >(much too little and years too late). >> >> >r >> >>>2 >> >> What is the current Microsoft v DOJ status ? >> >>nR >> >> I'm British and live in the UK, so I don't really know which way the currentQ >> >> US administration is likely to go with this. I do know that prior to the USfL >> >> election, the feeling in this newsgroup was that a Bush administrationI >> >> would be less likely to continue with the action against Microsoft.e >> >E >> >Experience with the "Dubbya" admin. tends to bear out the group'srH >> >initial take on the matter. He's a corporate lackey - period, end of >> >statement. >> > >> sE >> I try to avoid political discussions in this forum.  I don't thinki >> people come here for this.e >> lE >> I can't let this stand unchallenged, however, because Mr. DachterauE >> seems to have appointed himself spokesman for the group and deignsa. >> to give out our initial take on the matter. >> iE >> Insofar as George W. Bush may or may not be beholding to corporatemD >> interests, I don't feel that the reality is fairly represented by >> putting a period there. >y5 >Hmm, apart from the Tax cuts the other clear policy s4 >the Bush administration has commited themselves to 0 >is to pull out of the Kyoto agreement that the  >Clinton administration signed.  >   ? The Clinton Administration didn't have authority to approve them= Kyoto Treaty, that authority rests with Congress, which never2 approved this Treaty.l  ? Interesting how Japan and Australia have also pulled out of the 2 Kyoto agreement, but you only hear about the US...  0 >The Bush adminstration did so on the basis of a2 >reinterpretation of the scientific data on global2 >warming that the overwhelming majority of climate+ >change experts have subsequently trashed.   >w  @ The overwhelming majority?  Oh really?  That's funny, as I don't@ believe you'll find that a majority of climate change SCIENTISTSB have actually confirmed that global warming is actually occurring,@ and if it is that it's caused by greenhouse gases, which is whatB the Kyoto Treaty addresses.  It seems that there is as much weightB given to solar cycles are as plausible an explanation for climate " changes that may be occurring now.  G Now, there are a lot of climate change "experts" who are really nothinggE but leftist politicians who are in favor of Kyoto.  This makes thingseF clear as to what Kyoto is all about, seeing as Kyoto did _nothing_ to H reduce total emission of global greenhouse gasses, it just redistributedG it from the currently developed world to the 2nd and 3rd world nations.d  A Kyoto was all about redistributing wealth from the IndustrializedrF Western nations to the rest of the world.  Clinton who was in the backD pocket of the Chinese, who would have suffered no restrictions underD Kyoto, may have been for it, while Bush is against it.  I'll let you draw your own conclustions...>   >[big snip]c >r >--  >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Henderson3 jordan@greenapple.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 01:47:26 +0200/) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>x2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B18298E.132D1A2A@infopuls.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > > IMHO, M$ lacks the technical savvy to pose a serious challenge to OVMSI > > in the data center, contrary to the claims of one of their current ad  > > campaigns. >  > Wrong attitude.    I like this.  N > MS has the marketing savvy to convince that installing MS in the data centerP > is the best solution and will allow you to have compatible software (with your' > staff and with the rest of the world)g  ? There are areas like the big datacenters of companies which arei= dependent of these apps where marketing isn't enough. Look atm> the big banks and how long they continue to use IBM mainframes8 despite the disadvantages like unmaintainable apps, very= expensive replacement parts, very expensive service contractsc; a.s.o.. The responsible people in these areas are much moref7 careful in replacing their systems with whatever is thet@ alternative, simply because a wrong decision might well not only$ kill their job but also the company.  P > And when ISVs get the message, they will make sure that their software runs on
 > MS crap. > O > If you put enough horsepower and only a single application per wintel box, ite > can be robust enough.T  
 Are you sure?e  % Do you know Abraham Lincoln's saying: ! You can sometimes fool everybody.a You can always fool somebody.>$ But you can't fool always everybody.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 01:53:31 +0200v) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>n2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B182AFB.278F93BC@infopuls.com>   David Beatty wrote:t > 4 > I can't let this one go ... see my comments below. > 5 > On Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:50:40 +0100, andrew harrisonb# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:d >  > >e > >Jordan Henderson wrote: > >>, > >> In article <3B14F209.C0A7D90C@fsi.net>,5 > >> David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:t > >> >Simon Clubley wrote: > >> >>nS > >> >> On Tue, 29 May 2001 14:15:11 -0500, in article <3B13F53F.4C55D9C9@fsi.net>,f  > >> >> David J. Dachtera wrote:	 > >> >> >eP > >> >> >Yes, certain benefits have been gained by playing ball with the RedmomdM > >> >> >bullies. Of late, however, their monopolistic tactics have become sofO > >> >> >intolerable that even the Justice Department has seen fit to intervene . > >> >> >(much too little and years too late).	 > >> >> >  > >> >>i4 > >> >> What is the current Microsoft v DOJ status ? > >> >>>T > >> >> I'm British and live in the UK, so I don't really know which way the currentS > >> >> US administration is likely to go with this. I do know that prior to the USiN > >> >> election, the feeling in this newsgroup was that a Bush administrationK > >> >> would be less likely to continue with the action against Microsoft.e > >> >G > >> >Experience with the "Dubbya" admin. tends to bear out the group'smJ > >> >initial take on the matter. He's a corporate lackey - period, end of > >> >statement. > >> > > >>G > >> I try to avoid political discussions in this forum.  I don't thinke > >> people come here for this.s > >>G > >> I can't let this stand unchallenged, however, because Mr. Dachtera G > >> seems to have appointed himself spokesman for the group and deignsb0 > >> to give out our initial take on the matter. > >>G > >> Insofar as George W. Bush may or may not be beholding to corporate"F > >> interests, I don't feel that the reality is fairly represented by > >> putting a period there. > >g6 > >Hmm, apart from the Tax cuts the other clear policy5 > >the Bush administration has commited themselves to>1 > >is to pull out of the Kyoto agreement that thee! > >Clinton administration signed.. > > >     The U.S. Senate voted 95-0 against ratification in 1998.@ > A 2/3 majority of the Senate is required to ratify any treaty.: > Also, only one country (Romania) has ratified it so far. >  > > 2 > >The Bush adminstration did so on the basis of a4 > >reinterpretation of the scientific data on global4 > >warming that the overwhelming majority of climate, > >change experts have subsequently trashed. > 6 >     The science of global climate change is anything > but certain. > 3 >     The temperature models that show warming overe5 > the last 100 years do not adequately take the urban " > heat island affect into account. > = >     Even if the planet is warming, it is most likely normalD6 > planetary weather cycles or sunspots and not induced9 > by human activity.  Not only that, warming would likely 9 > have more positive effects on the planet than negative.e2 > Most warming would likely come from higher night7 > temperatures and would make additional land availablei > for farming. > @ >     Based on tree ring data, there was a warm trend from about; > 1000-1300 A.D. and it is estimated the planet averaged 2C B > warmer than now.  Also, the last Little Ice Age lasted from 1400E > to 1850.  The warming in the last 150 years took place before 1940.n >  > >o6 > >The real subtext was that the measures necessary to4 > >impliment the somewhat limitted set of goals that8 > >Clinton signed up to at Kyoto would hurt big business5 > >and the economy. A short sighted view and one thata6 > >will ultimately leave the US behind the EU and most: > >other developed countries in terms of energy efficiency; > >and one that will cost the US much more in the long terme8 > >when the changes they have put off are forced on them > >by circumstances. > >t > = >     If Kyoto were put into affect, it is estimated it wouldm- > change the planetary temperature by -0.07C.e > < >     The Kyoto Protocol is not about saving the planet from6 > global warming, but is a backhanded way to level the7 > economic playing field.  The EU wants to compete withg9 > the U.S. by crippling the U.S. economy, not by loweringn7 > taxes and allowing it's citizens the economic freedom  > to create wealth.i > > >     Besides the tax cut, it's President Bush's smartest move	 > so far.  > 6 > >As someone pointed out, the Easter Islander who cut4 > >down the last tree on the island probably did not4 > >realise the cost of the tree would be measured in* > >the extinction of the Easter Islanders. > >>F > >> First of all, in comparison, Bill Clinton was the best friend theH > >> huge transnational corporations ever had.  Witness the unbelievable= > >> mergers that occurred during the Clinton administration.P > >>G > >>         - The largest 3 petrochemical mergers of all time occurred G > >>           during the Clinton administration: Exxon/Mobil, BP/AmocoeF > >>           and Shell/Texaco (refining & marketing US).  If the oilJ > >>           companies are gouging, it was only made possible by runaway > >>           consolidation.  > >>F > >>         - The largest automotive merger Daimler/Chrysler happenedH > >>           in 1998.  The Daimer CEO represented this to Americans asE > >>           'a marriage of equals' back before it happened, now he E > >>           says that this wasn't a serious statement...  Ford andtH > >>           GM have been buying up lots of International auto makers, > >>           too.p > >>J > >>         - The largest banking/insurance merger of all time, Citibank/I > >>           Travelers sailed through even though it was illegal at thetJ > >>           time the merger occurred (!)  Citibank/Travelers merged andJ > >>           got those pesky banking laws that didn't allow banks to ownK > >>           Insurance companies changed after the fact.  While it's trueeJ > >>           that Congress is to blame for changing the law, the ClintonK > >>           administration had the responsibility to execute the currentrL > >>           law and not just look the other way while this was happening. > >>P > >>         - The largest 3 media mergers (Viacom/CBS, Disney/ABC/Cap, AOL/TW).L > >>           Wonder why you don't know that Clinton was big bidness's bestK > >>           buddy?  The MEDIA didn't report it after all... coincidence?hG > >>           (Considerable consolidation also occurred in Newspapers,yJ > >>           Radio properties, regional television, but these were small/ > >>           potatoes compared to the above.)e > >>J > >> Now, as for Mr. Bush.  The only Bush agenda item that's looks certainL > >> so far is a tax cut that will benefit the poorest tax payers first, andK > >> the poorest tax payers get by far the greatest percentage benefit.  NohK > >> corporate or capital gains taxes have yet been proposed by Bush, which K > >> would really benefit his corporate masters, were he the lackey you sayh > >> he is.n > >>M > >> Of course, Mr. Bush maybe listening to some corporate interests, I don'tMK > >> deny it.  It's only the John McCain's of the world who seem to believe O > >> that everyone should have free speech, unless you have lots of money, thenn > >> you should be silenced. > >>R > >> >> Is this likely to still be the case or has the DOJ viewpoint not changed ? > >> >K > >> >The DOJ tends to be strongly influenced by the feelings of the gov't.: > >> >leaders. > >> >L > >> >> BTW, is there a general move in the US to all things Microsoft or doN > >> >> people still regard VMS/Unix/whatever as the correct tools for the job+ > >> >> when it comes to critical systems ?  > >> >M > >> >With the release of the news that even the U.S. military is buying into L > >> >Redmond's bulls--t, the perception that Micro$hit is all things to allK > >> >{sheep,lemmings,whatever-works-for-you} is likely to be proliferated.  > >> >0 > >> >> Here in the UK, we have to deal with the > >> >> following: > >> >>r9 > >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19239.htmlk > >> >J > >> >This is yet another example of Redmond's bully tactics: lock out theM > >> >competition, rather than ensuring the greatest possible user base. TheyoL > >> >may have achieved their greedy goals in the UK - so be it. My feeling,H > >> >however, is that other such entities will be inclined to learn theN > >> >lessons of this debacle (no guarantees, naturally) and ban M$ from theirJ > >> >gov't "portal"s for such counter-competitive, monopolistic nonsense. > >> >H > >> >Here's a bit of "innovation" I'll bet you'll never see come out ofN > >> >Redmond: play nice with the rest of the world, instead of trying to rule	 > >> >it.n > >> > > >> >-- > >> >David J. Dachteral > >> >dba DJE Systemsb > >> >http://www.djesys.com/ > >> >@ > >> >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:% > >> >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/v > >> >L > >> >This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > >> >is to be expected. > >> >F > >> >Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > >> >L > >> >However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > >> >strongly discouraged.  > >> > >> -Jordan Henderson > >> jordan@greenapple.com  8 Sorry, but your post shows that you are very, very badly; informed. I really recomend not to continue to support thisi attitude in this NG.  @ The consequences of Bush's "strategy" are 1000 new nuclear power? stations within the USA and exploration and exploitation of oilr8 fields in Alaska with destroying protected nature areas.  ; Ever heard of "Three Mile Island" aka "Harrisburg"? The USAr= aren't like the Ukraine. Think about the "Challanger"! Do you 
 feel safe?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:02:11 -0400?2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0106012302110001@user-2ive7sc.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B18078B.42798F4B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeih% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:n   > David Beatty wrote:o? > >     If Kyoto were put into affect, it is estimated it woulds/ > > change the planetary temperature by -0.07C.n >  > L > So you admit it does have an effect. Now ask yourself the question: by howO > much will the temperature rise because the USA has abandonned its commitments   H Following the dubious arguments of this thread, I guess we'd have to sayG 0.07C.  But that number is quite meaningless unless we can estimate itstF error.  That's apparently a big secret; the press doesn't like to talkI about the uncertainty in these kinds of estimates.  But it's pretty clear1( to me that the error is more than 0.07C!  N > Look at what happened with ozone. Scientists were calling for immediate stopJ > on use of CFCs for years but politicians were saying "you don't have anyN > proof, it would cost too much etc etc". One day, there was scientific proof,L > and by the time the proof was found, it require dramatic action VERY fast.N > Countries met in Montreal and signed the Montreal protocol to eliminate CFCsN > from most of the world (with a few exceptions) in the matter of a few years. > P > The world economy did not fail because of that and companies that used to makeF > Freon were able to find adequate replacements that are less harmful.  G But alas, much less energy efficient.  And the jury is still out on theeH harm done (if any) by the CFCs.  We don't understand the ozone mechanismC very well at all.  And of course there are still lots of CFCs beingO, deployed (and manufactured) under the table.   L > The message Bush has given by refusing to honour Kyoto is that he does not@ > beleive that the US economy is capable of adapting to change.   B Look, the U.S. senate declined to ratify the treaty.  The previousG administration was going to go along with it anyway, which was probablytJ illegal.  In the absense of a ratified treaty, and with no supporting lawsG passed by congress, neither Clinton nor Bush had any legal authority ton foist Kyoto on us.   > By keeping theP > US economy the same until the very last minute, Bush is going to cause a majorJ > disruption because so much of the us economy relies on fossils. (eg: carL > industry). On the other hand, a slow introduction of ever tougher measuresK > will force corporations to adapt and develop better products for the longa9 > term, so it will be an evolution instead of revolution.  > , > The existence of SUVs in the USA is proof   G ... that we tend to believe in free markets.  There is a demand, so thex6 car companies do what they can to supply the vehicles.  $ > that the car manufacturers have no > self control.   F Odd that you don't say the same about the SUV buyers.  Why pick on the manufacturers?  @ > As soon as price of oil goes down, they build bigger cars that > eat more fuel.    6 Because that's what (some of) the buying public wants.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:15:38 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0106012315380001@user-2ive7sc.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3B182AFB.278F93BC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brasse <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:r    B > The consequences of Bush's "strategy" are 1000 new nuclear powerA > stations within the USA and exploration and exploitation of oiln: > fields in Alaska with destroying protected nature areas.  J Sorry Christof, you're way out on this.  There aren't likely to be any newJ nuclear power stations here any time soon.  Perhaps a few will appear, theA 1000 is a totally absurd number.  The U.S. public is (sadly) veryeI anti-nuclear due to the past few decades of propaganda they've absorbed. tE Nobody proposes Chernoble-style joke reactors here; Chernoble isn't at3 valid argument against a properly designed reactor.s  I Don't forget, nuclear plants don't make greenhouse gasses.  Or ozone.  Oro ozone-depleting CFCs.  u  > In the current regulatory climate, nukes are not even close toE cost-effective.  I don't expect any private money will be invested tohJ construct them.  Electricity would have to get MUCH more expensive to make them attractive.  a= > Ever heard of "Three Mile Island" aka "Harrisburg"? The USAi? > aren't like the Ukraine. Think about the "Challanger"! Do you  > feel safe?  = Aren't you generally downwind from France?  Do you feel safe?   F I don't know what TMI has to do with Challenger.  Or with Ukraine, for that matter.  H You do realize that no one was harmed by TMI, right?  (Except perhaps byE media-induced hysterical stress.)  The pittance of radiation that was 7 released was not a health issue, not even a little bit.c  F (And yes, I understand radiation safety.  So if you want to talk aboutD health effects, please be prepared to justify your claims with solid	 numbers.)S   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comM   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:55:36 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <3B1871C6.BE00142@videotron.ca>n   Robert Deininger wrote:tI > But alas, much less energy efficient.  And the jury is still out on the " > harm done (if any) by the CFCs.   M I suggest you go to Australia or even Canada during our summer before you say I this. The ozone hole is real. Remember those science fiction movies wheremM humans had to live underground with pale skins because they can't go outdoorsmJ ? Well, it has gotten to a point when you can't go outdoors unless you are) covered with clothing or put on sunblock.g  ) > We don't understand the ozone mechanismnE > very well at all.  And of course there are still lots of CFCs beinga. > deployed (and manufactured) under the table.  L Manufacturing is only done in third world countries supposedly for their ownJ consumption since they were too poor to migrate to newer gases. In westernN countries, the only CFCs available are those that were stockpiled or recycled.L Any black market imports from south america to the USA through Miami are not supposed to happen.O  6 > Look, the U.S. senate declined to ratify the treaty.  L Look, the U.S. undertook to abide by an international agreement. How this isG implemented internally is not our business. But if the USA is unable tooN implement its commitments, it looks bad internationally. The fact that Bush JrI took a decision VERY QUICKLY after having moved to the white house was ansM indication not of senate problems but of unwillingness of Bush Jr to abide by00 international commitments that the USA had made.  I > ... that we tend to believe in free markets.  There is a demand, so the 8 > car companies do what they can to supply the vehicles.  L So, if I were to produce cyanide-based fire logs that make a very nice flameK in your fireplace, I would be allowed to sell as many as I wish to the USA vI even though burning them would spew cyanide gases up every chimney ? Free  enterprise, right ?u  M Free enterprise would work if the true cost of polluting were included in the F market. But because the USA does not charge for polluting, your nationL generates 25% of the world's pollutants. If there were a pollution tax, your? corporations would work hard to make systems that pollute less.>  E If there were a pollution tax, SUVs would not have become a de-factor J single-person transportation system in the USA. But because of the lack ofE true costing of environment, your industries "default" to being nastydI polluters and wasters until there is a crisis where the industry is takenc! aback incapable to adapt quickly.n  M Your car companies were taken aback during previous oil crisis. And now, whatgG will happen when everyone stops buying SUVs ? how long will it take forsL american car companies to start building small economical cars ? During thatH time, the japanese and european car makers will agains take over the car5 market and your US car indistry will suffer greatly. l  J If there had been a pollution tax, the US car industry would have kept itsG focus on building energy efficient cars and would not need to flip flopsI between tooling for gas guzzlers and back to small energy efficient cars.e  8 > Because that's what (some of) the buying public wants.  K Then give everyone his own personal air conditioned winnebago with built-in ( hot tub for commuting to work every day.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 01:01:05 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B18730F.AB6A18F6@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:uK > Don't forget, nuclear plants don't make greenhouse gasses.  Or ozone.  Or  > ozone-depleting CFCs.h  K But they generate lots of nuclear waste and there is currently no permanentaM solution to what to do with all that stuff. That is equivalent to you putting L your garbage on the street once a week, but there is never any truck to come pick it up.t  M Hydro electric may be "clean" but it also destroys/changes the environment by I flooding large areas. About the only truly clean energy sources are wind, I geothermal, tidal and solar. Once they get fusion and antimatter reactorsa" working, the problems may go away.  G Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate thedM electricity somewhere. Bicycles however are great for transportation and theyt keep you in shape.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.303 ************************