1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 04 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 307       Contents:, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging  alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD? " Call VMS system services from java& Re: Call VMS system services from java' RE: DECEvent, WEBESs - what's going on?  Re: disk benchmarking 2 Re: Function to measure time for command execution Re: hszterm software Re: hszterm software Re: ICC and Memory Channel' Re: Open RMS files from DCL via TCP/IP? & Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad& Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad& Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad2 Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas  Re: Reading RMS index file on PC Re: The future of VMS 1 Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?  Re: What does READ/NEW do ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 01:24:37 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B1AC735.356EF068@infopuls.com>   Bill Pedersen wrote: > K > I personally do not believe that the business customers were the cause of  > the problem. > L > DEC did have a technical solution, or the start of it, against the PC.  ItL > was the PRO.  It was based on the PDP-11, but the interfaces were close orN > at least VERY DIFFICULT to get and EXPENSIVE.  They needed to figure out howL > to get from that to an OPEN environment to be able to have volume.  It wasB > miles ahead of the PC in concept and functionality and potentialM > performance, but over-engineered and therefore more expensive.  There was a L > standard for the user interface, support for HELP in all applications, theN > ability to really run multiple applications in protected mode simultaneously, > (gee, when did that come out in Windows?). > M > BUT DEC could not market and could not understand that even though this was G > a SINGLE user machine they would continut to sell multi-user systems.  > N > You could not run a lab or a department on this.  It was not multi-user, but > it was multi-tasking.  >  > -- > Bill Pedersen  > CCSS Corporation > CCSS Interactive Learning  > www.VMS.St > 831-336-2708 > ================  > Maybe that is the whole story. I don't know how much money DEC> had at that time but it might have been a good idea to go into? the market with that piece without really earning money just to = get the highest possible market share. This is important if a  new business area opens.  9 Is it like in politics: the people got what they deserve.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 02:27:54 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun = Message-ID: <KmCS6.15467$QP6.6294863@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message $ news:3B177CC4.E0BB99C3@uk.sun.com... >  > Christof Brass wrote:  > >  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > >  > > > It was written...  > > > ( > > > > > > Sun buying Compaq, unlikely.	 > > > > > G > > > > > Why not ? Sun would be able to cannabalise Compaq's microsoft 	 alliances 	 > > > and L > > > > > operations and focus on *real* enterprise solutions. It would be a major 
 > > > kickL > > > > > in the ass to Bill Gates since Compaq would then become a rival to > > > Microsoft.	 > > > > > J > > > > > Sun would gain access to Alpha which it could market (and use on its own J > > > > > systems) and show a clear lead in technology over those that are based  > > > on. > > > > > Intel's delayed 64 bit architecture. > > > H > > > Truth be told, Digital ported Solaris to Alpha back in the mid-90s just to I > > > prove it could be done. And there were 1995 backchannel discussions  between K > > > the two vendors re: Digital adopting--and enhancing--Solaris, and Sun  > > > adopting Alpha.  > > C > > This really makes sense. The UltraSPARC is ultra slow and ultra @ > > expensive. I don't know if there is a chip around with lower > > performance/price ratio. > >  > / > Really and how did you reach this interesting " > but unsupportable conclusion ???  6 It wasn't T. Shannon who reached the above conclusion!   > 0 > As you know perfectly well the opposite is the- > case, UltraSPARC isn't ultra slow and it is  > also not ultra expensive.   J UltraSparc is neither ultraslow nor ultraexpensive. But there sure as hell6 aren't many of the UltraSparc III chips available yet.   > 4 > If you are looking for the holder of the UltraSlow5 > UltraExpensive titles you need look no further than  > the Alpha.   UltraExpensive? Yep.  E UltraSlow? Andrew, Andrew, Andrew... your credibility gap is showing!    > + > From a workstation standpoint Compaq seem * > unable to build any form of AlphaStation0 > that can compete price wise with a SunBlade1004 > and while it may not be as fast as the lowest cost3 > D machine its bigger brother the SunBlade 1000 is ( > and it is also very price competitive.  " That is a very credible statement.   > 1 > In the server space Compaq have one competitive 4 > system the ES40 which keeps the rest from sinking. > 3 > But above it the GS160/320 have proven themselves % > to be overpriced and under powered.   
 Your opinion.   H And things are gonna get much worse for the GS-Series on July 7 when theH 1GHz model is announced. It is hideously underpowered. A 1GHz GS320 will deliver only 230K tpmC.   : That's a terrible number! After all, Sun can do 300K tpmC.   With a pair of UE10Ks.   ------------------------------   Date: 04 Jun 2001 03:11:01 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun 0 Message-ID: <3b1afc7e$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  	 Christof:   H You hit the nail on the head.  DEC was terrified of what might happen ifD they GOT marketshare.  They had no idea as to what to do in terms ofI developing a plan and being able to execute against it for the support of 0 large scale distribution of single user systems.  K It was unfortunate that they did not figure out the issues both technically  and business-wise.   --
 Bill Pedersen  CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learning 
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  6 "Christof Brass" <brass@infopuls.com> wrote in message& news:3B1AC735.356EF068@infopuls.com... > Bill Pedersen wrote: > > J > > I personally do not believe that the business customers were the cause of > > the problem. > > J > > DEC did have a technical solution, or the start of it, against the PC. ItK > > was the PRO.  It was based on the PDP-11, but the interfaces were close  orL > > at least VERY DIFFICULT to get and EXPENSIVE.  They needed to figure out how J > > to get from that to an OPEN environment to be able to have volume.  It was D > > miles ahead of the PC in concept and functionality and potentialI > > performance, but over-engineered and therefore more expensive.  There  was a J > > standard for the user interface, support for HELP in all applications, the A > > ability to really run multiple applications in protected mode  simultaneously. > > (gee, when did that come out in Windows?). > > K > > BUT DEC could not market and could not understand that even though this  was I > > a SINGLE user machine they would continut to sell multi-user systems.  > > L > > You could not run a lab or a department on this.  It was not multi-user, but  > > it was multi-tasking.  > >  > > -- > > Bill Pedersen  > > CCSS Corporation > > CCSS Interactive Learning  > > www.VMS.St > > 831-336-2708 > > ================ > @ > Maybe that is the whole story. I don't know how much money DEC@ > had at that time but it might have been a good idea to go intoA > the market with that piece without really earning money just to ? > get the highest possible market share. This is important if a  > new business area opens. > ; > Is it like in politics: the people got what they deserve.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 03:10:07 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging= Message-ID: <j_CS6.15475$QP6.6317215@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   1 "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message 9 news:l8sR6.357031$fs3.57329928@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com... G > Sorta proves that Compaq marketing is still not sure exactly what the K > letters VMS mean.  (Very Mean System mabye?)  That basic misunderstanding @ > makes it difficult to successfully mount a marketing campaign. >   J FYI, I sent a copy of the article from THE INQUIRER to Marcomm VP Kay HartL at Compaq. Not surprisingly, I did not receive a response. Through a varietyI of sources, I learned that VMS Marketing made a conscious decision to say I nothing about the gaffe. After all, turning such a marketing gaffe into a = joke would be, well, umm, er, NOT THE WAY COMPAQ DOES THINGS.   K Hence the V73 packaging will be a Source of Ridicule for some time to come.    Why am I not surprised?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 18:28:37 -0700 & From: EL BORICUA <boriqua210@home.com> Subject: alphastation 200 4/233 3 Message-ID: <006501c0ec95$ade93d00$cb01a8c0@pc1ghz>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0EC5B.0171FB00  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    Hi,   I I have an alphastation running windows NT and would like to run OpenVMS =  but H for some reason I cannot change the boot mode to OpenVMS. Every time a = haltE the system and I do show device at the boot prompt >>> don't show any E devices available.Do I need to change something withing the console =  setting  in order to install VMS?   thanks in advance... Dave      + ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0EC5B.0171FB00  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY bgColor=3D#c8e0c0>0 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>H <P>Hi,<BR><BR>I have an alphastation running windows NT and would like =	 to run=20 J OpenVMS but<BR>for some reason I cannot change the boot mode to OpenVMS. = Every=20C time a halt<BR>the system and I do show device at the boot prompt =  &gt;&gt;&gt;=20 C don't show any<BR>devices available.Do I need to change something =  withing the=20? console setting<BR>in order to install VMS?<BR><BR>thanks in=20 < advance...<BR>Dave<BR></P></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0EC5B.0171FB00--    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 21:18:18 -07005 From: "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com> # Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233 ) Message-ID: <uS2hO1K7AHA.257@cpmsnbbsa09>   ) When you post please do so in plain text.   K Windows NT requires the ARC console. OpenVMS and Tru64 both require the SRM J console. The AS 200 is a "half flash" system; you can have the SRM consoleG loaded or the ARC console loaded, but not both. If the box is currently F running NT then you'll have to load the SRM console. This is typicallyF accomplished by starting to update the ARC console but then mid-streamH actually loading the SRM console. The whole operation starts in the CMOSL setup I believe...  In the last ten years I think I've done it 2 or 3 times.J The last time was about 3 weeks ago to load Tru64 on a AS 800 (it's one ofJ those things that I can step through looking at menu on the screen but not* something that I can pull up from memory).  I You'll also need a recent copy of the firmware CD (or you'll need to down " load it from the Compaq web site).    3 "EL BORICUA" <boriqua210@home.com> wrote in message - news:006501c0ec95$ade93d00$cb01a8c0@pc1ghz...  Hi,   K I have an alphastation running windows NT and would like to run OpenVMS but K for some reason I cannot change the boot mode to OpenVMS. Every time a halt E the system and I do show device at the boot prompt >>> don't show any K devices available.Do I need to change something withing the console setting  in order to install VMS?   thanks in advance... Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:21:28 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Backup to CD?) Message-ID: <3B1788C8.13ED2761@bbc.co.uk>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:   [ > In article <3B167911.CF3A5F3F@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:  > :  > :Robert Deininger wrote: > : M > :> There's a way to send raw SCSI commands to a device, but I've never done O > :> it.  Someone with experience in this area could probably do it in no time.  > : ' > :Probably a $QIO of some description.  > I >   IO$_DIAGNOSE and/or GKDRIVER.  Check the I/O User's Reference Manual.  >     Well, I did look,  S http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6136/6136pro_010.html#magtape_func_codes   9 (also, I have 7.21 docs on my PC, the table is the same).   N Maybe I snipped too much of the thread, which has moved on from CD's to how to- get the compression factor from a TZ8* drive.    regards    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 17:59:14 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Backup to CD?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0306011759140001@user-2iveam4.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <3B1788C8.13ED2761@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:   > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > ; > > In article <3B167911.CF3A5F3F@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn ! <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:  > > :  > > :Robert Deininger wrote: > > : O > > :> There's a way to send raw SCSI commands to a device, but I've never done H > > :> it.  Someone with experience in this area could probably do it in no time. > > : ) > > :Probably a $QIO of some description.  > > K > >   IO$_DIAGNOSE and/or GKDRIVER.  Check the I/O User's Reference Manual.  > >  >  >  Well, I did look, >  > S http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6136/6136pro_010.html#magtape_func_codes  > ; > (also, I have 7.21 docs on my PC, the table is the same).   J Well, you probably can't do it my going through the normal magtape driver,4 so these function codes are the wrong place to look.  & How about this vicinity in the manual:  L http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6136/6136pro_028.html#chan_ss_sec  F Figure out from the tape drive manual what SCSI command(s) you need toH send, put them in the right format to make GKDRIVER happy, and send themF to the drive with a QIO.  Either you crash your system, hang your SCSI) bus, or get back some useful information.   G Example 8-1 looks pretty close to what we need.  At the moment, I don't J have a tape drive, a drive manual, or a VMS system at hand, so I can't try	 anything.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 06:54:25 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: Backup to CD?+ Message-ID: <VA.000003b4.2c38753c@sture.ch>   > In article <3B167911.CF3A5F3F@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > N > You mean when the green light on you can load the btape without flipping the	 > handle?  > N Well, this depends on the flavour of your tape drive. I have a variety of TZ8*L drives connected to HSJ controllers, and control them by the ROBOT (aka MRU)L utility. Since the server room is some distance away, it saves not only time but shoe leather as well.   3 Commands such as LOAD SLOT 3 DRIVE 0 are available.   O The SCSI DLT Mini-libraries (more recent AFAIK) on the other hand can't be used H that way. IIRC, you can only control them remotely if you switch off theQ feature which automatically loads the next tape after a DISMOUNT (and I want thatnI feature for BACKUP). IMHO a serious design flaw, which completely ignoredn the VMS way of doing things. ___2
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:23:53 +0100( From: "jbrankin" <jbrankin@ntlworld.com>+ Subject: Call VMS system services from javaiC Message-ID: <TNyS6.18005$HL5.2250733@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>    Hi,t  E    I have written some software which allows a programmer to call VMSRK system services and LIB$ routines from Java. It is available free of charger at        http://www.j2vms.co.uke  J   It comes with no warranty or guarantee. Be advised that it was developedJ at home using the hobbyist license and has never been used in a real world application.  F   I would like some help  to develop it a bit further. I would like to	 develop aoK lexicals-like interface so the user would not have to create item lists and-G the like,  which  is cumbersome in Java. If anyone would be prepared to0* lend a hand with that please get in touch.   Regards@   Jim Brankin    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 01:42:02 +02003) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>r/ Subject: Re: Call VMS system services from javab, Message-ID: <3B1ACB4A.E6B97DF0@infopuls.com>   jbrankin wrote:i >  > Hi,c > G >    I have written some software which allows a programmer to call VMSwM > system services and LIB$ routines from Java. It is available free of chargeC > at >  >      http://www.j2vms.co.uk  > L >   It comes with no warranty or guarantee. Be advised that it was developedL > at home using the hobbyist license and has never been used in a real world > application. > H >   I would like some help  to develop it a bit further. I would like to > develop anM > lexicals-like interface so the user would not have to create item lists andtI > the like,  which  is cumbersome in Java. If anyone would be prepared too, > lend a hand with that please get in touch. > 	 > Regardsd > 
 > Jim Brankint  < Thanks! This is a major step forward. At present I don't use< Java on VMS but your interface seems exactly what is needed. Congratulations!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 16:19:55 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@COMPAQ.com>t0 Subject: RE: DECEvent, WEBESs - what's going on?R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D18607772@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Rob,  K Here is what Engineering passed on to me - they stated it was ok to send top
 Customers.  D "If DECevent is running in the automatic mode when a system (or nodeI crashes) FMG_ANA_PRM_STATED_DB.KNL can get corrupted in a non-predictable J way  -- causing what you are seeing.  A fix to the startup script has beenJ developed which reinitializes the KNL when DECevent is restarted. This fix, will be in the next DECevent Release, V3.4."  F DECevent V3.4 resolves this issue and is tentatively scheduled for theK July-August timeframe. This version will include support for VAX's as well.    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanth Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesh Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----< From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz [mailto:rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz] Sent: May 30, 2001 4:26 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr0 Subject: Re: DECEvent, WEBESs - what's going on?    , Thanks for the responses, e-mail and posted.  3 Looked throgh the pointers Kerry has kindly listed.a  Alas,  does nothing much for us.  - We're running VAXes, this is for Alphas only.iD The Alphas we are running are too old to be on the Supported list as are the HSD Disk Controllers.s  E Add to that the fact DECEvent is not really behaving and it seems therF chanes of getting it fixed have just reduced to zero seems to leave me* without any viable online fault reporting.  
 Ho hum....   Rob.      1 On Wed, 30 May 2001 08:07:05 -0500, "Main, Kerry"  <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote:   >Rob,n >S/ >re: pointers .. here is a good place to start: G >http://www.support.compaq.com/svctools/webes/webes_docs.html (includesx WEBES. >V4)8 >http://www.support.compaq.com/svctools/webes/index.html >/	 >Regards,. >  >  >Kerry Maina >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Inc.  >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036t >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.coms >u >o >-----Original Message----- = >From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz [mailto:rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz]n >Sent: May 29, 2001 8:46 PMS >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: DECEvent, WEBESs - what's going on?t >n >f >G'day all,r >IB >Various News items have stated the demise of DECevent, many while >discussing WEBES. >E+ >So, much ignorance here, what is going on. G >We're running DECEvent 3.3, it's particularly flaky on the VAXes and IeF >have to keep replacing one of the KNL files with the Factory version. >n >Has DECEvent come to an end?l >n >What's WEBES? >i# >Pointers to info much appreciated.h >S >Rob.1   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 17:18:13 -0400i( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: disk benchmarking+ Message-ID: <3B1AA994.AB38F09F@bigfoot.com>    G'day Paddy,  Q I thought your response was fair, and balanced - one slight clarification though.kY Switzerland has long been known for it neutrality with respect to others conflicts, hencer
 the verbiage.o   HM  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:  	 > Hamlyn,S >r > >Dear Mr. Sture, > R > Within this newsgroup/mailing list (and others), this form of address invariable  > heralds an insulting response. >uT > >First of all, I am not Japanese, nor do I have a hump on my back, although if youX > >insist on refering to my last name as Moto instead of Mootoo, I may develop a chip on	 >  ^^^^^^cS > a one time response with a possibly mistaken typing of your name does not read asn > "insistence".h >tV > >my shoulder (toward you). Secondly, if you were to take the time to read the entireW > >thread you would see that I am not the agressor here. Thirdly, if you sincerely meann7 >                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^c2 > But you were in the post that Paul responded to. >rX > >what you say about keeping it technical, your threat is highly inconsistent with thisX > >aim (hypocritical in fact).  Fourthly, if you did read the entire thread, then one isS > >left to conclude that you are highly biased toward your friends, in which case ICB >                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^Q > Few of us are actually friends, most are just names in the newsgroup (I've onlybQ > actually met two people who reside here).  We judge each other by the technicalPU > content combined with our own experience.  Your responses have only appeared in therV > past few weeks and many seem to have technical merit (I cannot judge in all fields). > Don't spoil it.t >nV > Yes, I felt that Paul (unusually) was "over the top" in his last paragraph, but manyW > of us get exasperated when, within a very good technical forum (with some interestingmS > humour and OTs), discussion degenerates to personality conflicts and abuse.  This P > seemed the purport of his penultimate paragraph.  I thought most of this abuseO > disappeared with the demise of CJL and the disappearance of his neophyte, MT.  > P > >suggest to take the first jet out of switzerland, as you are in conflict withU > >national policy there. Fifthly, if this is your way of getting acquainted, how theo > >hell are ya man?  > >d > >HMn >nK > What national policy?  I can't see anything political in Paul's response.- >  > >Paul Sture wrote: > >CE > >> In article <3B17DB74.B6E1E0B1@bigfoot.com>, Hamlyn Mootoo wrote:-/ > >> > From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>h > >> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms% > >> > Subject: Re: disk benchmarkingi, > >> > Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:14:12 -0400 > >> >U > >> > Am I gettin' to ya Mr. Bill?  Running out of adjectives I see.  Would you likeeU > >> > to purchase a vowel, or is that the last we shall hear from you poor, dear Mr.i > >> > Bill.V > >> > Feel free to fire the full litany of your foul-mouthed arsenal at me so you canL > >> > best illustrate to all who read, what a learned professional you are. > >> > > >> Mr Moto, a question:. > >>F > >> Did you pay for the 5 minute argument or the full  half hour one? > >>A > >> Please stop the personal attacks. They will get you nowhere.3 > >>P > >> Of course if you persist I shall enjoy ripping you to shreds. This is not aN > >> threat, but a promise. But I'd much prefer it if you got back to sensible > >> technical topics. > >> ___ > >> Paul Sturet > >> Switzerland >t > Regards, Paddy >. > Paddy O'Brien, > Transmission Development,T > TransGrid, > PO Box A1000, Sydney South,. > NSW 2000, Australiad >t > Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 > Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050( > Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au > O > Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,f= > but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.E   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:35:47 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>-; Subject: Re: Function to measure time for command execution3) Message-ID: <3B178C23.87227E0E@bbc.co.uk>.   Andrew Rycroft wrote:o   > Hi,3 > B > In the UNIX world there is a command "time" which can be used toF > measure the time elapsed, CPU and real, of a command, e.g. # time ls >F, > Is there anyway of doing this within VMS ? >8  C not directly from DCL, though it wouldn't be hard to write with thea  run time library timer routines.  = You are aware of the ControlT feature, are you? SET CONTROL=Tc@ and then anytime even when running a loing command you can get a one line status displaye  D mynode::_FTA15: 13:41:56   (DCL)   CPU=00:00:13.00 PF=11016 IO=54021 MEM=63  / Not quite what you asked for, but it might helpt   regards    >s > Thanks > Andrew   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk3  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofC MedAS or the BBC.=   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 02:59:35 GMT1$ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> Subject: Re: hszterm software=) Message-ID: <3B1AFA0B.9C729341@wi.rr.com>2  P No, there is a real scripting tool for VMS which is used to communicate with the storageoK controllers.  Check out the Compaq storage web pages.  Someone may chime inn  with the correct product name...  M This product will answer your last question: how to talk to HSGs from a batchw job *and* be supported..  
 -Scott :^)   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Scott Vieth wrote: > >r > > No, that's not correct.a > >nQ > > There is a scripting tool for VMS that will let you talk directly to the HSGsa- > > without any Solaris or NT boxes involved.- >-J > If you're talking about HSDSA-SCRIPT, I've already made entensive use ofI > that. In one case, I even combined that with DFU to resolve the problemeH > of propagating backup dates onto disks where the mirror-sets are splitG > at the HSx so BACKUPs can proceed in parallel with normal operations.t >eJ > Too bad HSDSA-SCRIPT (or similar) is not supported. Would solve a ton of > problems.e >oJ > The question remains: how does one "talk to" HSG's from an OpenVMS batch4 > job? Is the HSDSA-SCRIPT approach still effective? >t > -- > David J. Dachterat > dba DJE Systemse > http://www.djesys.com/ >e< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >tH > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >rB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >iH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jun 2001 23:13:51 -0500t+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u Subject: Re: hszterm software 3 Message-ID: <nbJPciSRqJ9t@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <3B1AFA0B.9C729341@wi.rr.com>, Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:  R > No, there is a real scripting tool for VMS which is used to communicate with the	 > storagehM > controllers.  Check out the Compaq storage web pages.  Someone may chime ino" > with the correct product name... > O > This product will answer your last question: how to talk to HSGs from a batch- > job *and* be supported., >  > -Scott :^) >   ; 	Google does its thing , searching: "hsg80 script" reveals::   Software Producte Description1  K PRODUCT NAME: Compaq SANworks                                              3
 SPD: 80.55.00>1                      Command Scripter Version 1.0    DESCRIPTION N SANworks Command Scripter is application software that provides experienced ITJ managers with command-level control of StorageWorks  systems equipped with HSG60,E HSG80, HSZ70 and HSZ80 Array Controllers. Command Scripter works in a K heterogeneous host environment that includes Compaq OpenVMS , Compaq Tru64  = UNIX, Microsoft Windows NT and Windows 2000, and Sun Solaris.7M With Command Scripter, IT managers can create, edit and run script files thatm contain O StorageWorks Command Line Interpreter (CLI) commands. This scripting capabilitynB allows automation of frequently performed StorageWorks operations.    - 	Searching "command scripter compaq" reveals:u  7 http://www.compaq.com/products/sanworks/sanmgt/scs.html      				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 17:08:48 +0100a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e# Subject: Re: ICC and Memory Channel-) Message-ID: <3B17BE10.9C2CBA3B@bbc.co.uk>0   john nixon wrote:0  M > As part of our transition from VAX  (VMS 7.1) to Alpha (VMS 7.2-1) , I haveCL > been pointing out to our Developers and Analysts some of the advantages of > Alpha. >cG > I finally have them interested in ICC (to replace mailboxes and otherfM > services), and Memory Channel.  They are interested, but believe it or not,yI > they do not have internet (browsing) access.  I would like to pull some:I > descriptive documents regarding these two (ICC and MC) and e-mail it to'F > them.  Can someone point me to something I can send them to get themM > started. I am not a programmer, so it is difficult for me to explain system N > services to them. Our new ES40s will have memory channel, but none of us areH > exactly sure how to use it or what we need to do (if anything) to take > advantage of it.  E The 7.2 (or is it 7.2-1) kits ship with a Windows compatible docs CD,CE you can load the docs onto each users' PC (if they have PC's) or ontoh a shared drives somewhere.  " EIther that or give them Xwindows.  / I guess MGbook is no use with the BNU docs? :-(t     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uki  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 16:17:18 +0100a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>t0 Subject: Re: Open RMS files from DCL via TCP/IP?) Message-ID: <3B17B1FE.2D04E7A4@bbc.co.uk>d   Me@home.com wrote:  L > Well, the question is in the title. I have a bunch of DCL procedures which > did-M > remote RMS access via DECnet. They should now run on systems (Alpha/OpenVMScI > 7.2-1) where DECnet is not running anymore (and will probably never run 	 > again).c ><O > Is there an easy way to open a file from DCL via IP without having to write aeK > piece of C/Fortran/Macro/xxx code? I know I can do DECnet over IP but the  > system > manager said "no". >   Q Sounds like whoever did the feasibility study for removing DECNet support in yourlR organization missed at least one application. How important that application is to yourL buisiness only you and your colleagues know. Or was DECNET just unilaterallyI removed? I guess one way to find out what is out there is to break it :-)n  R Anyway, I'm not sure quite how well NFS supports RMS file access but I do rememberP you can use CMS libraries over NFS now (TCP/IP Services V5) so it might be worth investigating.  5 Presumably the system manager is "scared" of Phase V?i   regardsl   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofT MedAS or the BBC.7   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 17:24:58 -0400r( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>/ Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroads+ Message-ID: <3B1AAB2A.99397987@bigfoot.com>/  E By the way I think it's Providence And Worcester (no "h"), pronouncedtI woos-tah by the locals, or woos-ter by everyone else.  New Englanders are B very protective of their pronunciations from what I've seen there.   HM   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  G > I went on an excursion yesterday to tour the Nautilus (first nuclear) F > submarine at Groton Connecticut.  The carrier was the Providence andH > Worchester Railroad, a generally-freight railroad that happens to haveC > tracks that go right past the submarine base and _in_between_ the,/ > Nautilus and the associated submarine museum.s >rG > Being quite interested in (as distinguished from knowledgeable about)sJ > railroads, I bought a souvenir book about the Providence and Worchester.F > The booklet told an impressive story about how the railroad had beenH > dormant for over 75 years (renting their lines to the New Haven). WhenE > the New York Central went under, the Providence and Worchester tooktF > control of their lines again and actually started _buying_ strategic< > lines from other railroads that were going down the tubes. >dE > And in the middle of this history was their computing history, fromuE > PDP-11s to VAX11-785 through to Alpha 2100.   I suppose they are inuE > the same situation as the Indiana Toll Road in use of VMS, there ismD > no need to grossly increase computer capacity since a commensurateI > increase in bandwidth of the physical plant defies the laws of physics.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 00:20:38 GMTt/ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)i/ Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroadu2 Message-ID: <3b1ad376.129985932@news.telocity.com>  D Is that how they spell it in the book?  I have lived within ear shotB of the P&W for most of my life in the Blackstone Valley and I haveF always seen it spelled Worcester, like the city at the northern end of the original line.   Steved  F On 3 Jun 2001 08:39:00 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:s  F >I went on an excursion yesterday to tour the Nautilus (first nuclear)E >submarine at Groton Connecticut.  The carrier was the Providence andnG >Worchester Railroad, a generally-freight railroad that happens to havefB >tracks that go right past the submarine base and _in_between_ the. >Nautilus and the associated submarine museum. >tF >Being quite interested in (as distinguished from knowledgeable about)I >railroads, I bought a souvenir book about the Providence and Worchester. E >The booklet told an impressive story about how the railroad had beeniG >dormant for over 75 years (renting their lines to the New Haven). WhennD >the New York Central went under, the Providence and Worchester tookE >control of their lines again and actually started _buying_ strategicg; >lines from other railroads that were going down the tubes.  >kD >And in the middle of this history was their computing history, fromD >PDP-11s to VAX11-785 through to Alpha 2100.   I suppose they are inD >the same situation as the Indiana Toll Road in use of VMS, there isC >no need to grossly increase computer capacity since a commensuratelH >increase in bandwidth of the physical plant defies the laws of physics.   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAe StevenU@POBoxes.comn   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jun 2001 20:58:44 -0500M9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad 3 Message-ID: <vNLh2a$UG5U7@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  V In article <3B1AAB2A.99397987@bigfoot.com>, Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> writes:G > By the way I think it's Providence And Worcester (no "h"), pronounceda   I stand corrected.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 14:37:35 -0400C- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ; Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphasz, Message-ID: <3B1A83EF.2EC9B7DE@videotron.ca>   "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:tE > Regarding your last paragraph, I wonder if the fact that Alphas aret? > so powerful, actually hurts repeat sales among its customers.E  I This is why low end entry systems are so important. You need to widen then& market because it is a stable market.   L If VMS has shown growth recently, I'd be willing to bet that it was existingL customers who had stopped upgrading anything VMS until they had a clear signL that Compaq wasn't about to kill VMS. Now that they have upgraded, they will be stable for many more years.  U The ones that grow are the small companies, not the large established multinationals.3   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:02:44 +0200- From: "Tzachi Nissim" <tzachi@attunity.co.il>o) Subject: Re: Reading RMS index file on PC 0 Message-ID: <9fcqpi$3dg$1@news.netvision.net.il>  D Or... you could use a middleware product like our product - AttunityJ Connect. We provide you with JDBC, ODBC, XML, ADO/OLEDB access to your RMS data...   ( Feel free to contact me for more info...   Tzachi Attunity R&D  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B1274D0.77FD95BE@fsi.net...  > hourman wrote: > >mI > > I'm considering to read RMS index file on PC using VB/Java.  Does any I > > tried this before?  Where can I find info about internal structure of  > > RMS index file?c >h
 > Um, WOW! >u@ > Well, there are third party RMS products for NT and UN*X. See: >  > http://www.accelr8.com/  > http://www.sector7.com/s >hG > You may want to explore third-party products before re-inventing that^ > wheel. >^F > OTH, if you're thinking about doing a freeware RMS "layer" for W/9x,C > W/NT and/or UN*X, I believe the VMS programming documentation mayt > provide some insights. See:l > $ > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/ >i > -- > David J. Dachteral > dba DJE Systemst > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/^ > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >oB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >tH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:09:01 +0100'- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>u Subject: Re: The future of VMS) Message-ID: <3B1785DD.B3C5A404@bbc.co.uk>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  0 > If I had time on my hands, I would port Gnome. >aE > An alternative that might be interesting and do-able is to write aniH > application that reads command line definition files, and builds a GUI > interface for it.a > M > People are always complaining that they want GUI interfaces to command linee
 > apps ;-)  I yup, and the way to do that as you suggest is to build the GUI around thei command  line interface.i  A Hey, I was thinking about something very similar just last night.d   regardsn     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk-  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of: MedAS or the BBC.>   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:13:06 GMT-8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>: Subject: Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?' Message-ID: <3B1A9945.F82B96D@decus.fi>h   System@nospam.com wrote: >  > Hi,l > O > Thank you for the answers about backup/interchange. I didn't look at the helpu > enough carefully.u > G > Now, I need to know why an AlphaStation with DECnet OSI and TCP/IP V5 O > absolutely wants to do "over IP" transport. I wish to "talk" to another Alpha M > using normal DECnet and of course it doesn't work because the target systemn. > does not understand "over IP" encapsulation. > K > When I do a Set host on the Phase IV system, the cursor hangs and nothing L > happens. When I go the other way, the Phase IV system says "remote node is@ > unreachable". But Set host 0 works fine on the Phase V system. > M > What should I do to tell DECnet OSI to not use "over IP" but only DECnet IVyI > routing, and still have TCP/IP on to be able to do TELNET if necessary?1 >  > Thank you. > SM > Q >  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----eO >   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupstK >    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts4N > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net  < $ mcr ncl set session control transport precedence (nsp,tp4)   _velic   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 02:05:32 +01001 From: "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk>r$ Subject: Re: What does READ/NEW do ?A Message-ID: <991616715.25030.0.nnrp-02.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk>n  @ I will give it another try - I have a variety of VMS versions...   -- Chrisa  E "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote in messagerC news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0106011334520.3001-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl...g* > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Chris Townley wrote: >eI > >+"Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote in messageE > [...]oA > >+>  Not exactly; ONLY if the resulting count in MAILUAF may go @ > >+> less to (lower to) 0 or no new mail (flagged as new) found3 > >+> but the count is >0 - the count is corrected.s5 > >+>  AFAIK & WithMyExperience limited, of course :)l > >+K > >+I dont think this quite works (well it is better than my first comment)o > >+J > >+Having many test systems that frequently get  *.MAI files deleted, the count: > >+remains incorrect. >t< > ..sure, must be corrected b.ex. with supported READ/NEW :) > A > >+Only way I know to correct is to hack the central data file -l/ > >+VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA located in sys$system.t >g >  No, not "only way" !u >h= >  What prevent the "proper" correction with your descriptionr> > is a error (may be counted as bug or feature, but is in MAIL> > for years) when *any* default_file (means: MAIL.MAI) relatedB > operation is done: if the file does not exists or is unavailable; > you get -E- class error and no further operation is done.r> >  When a MAIL.MAI is deleted - you must at start recreate it:2 > the simplest way is send one message themself :)B >  *Then* you can correct the count without problem with READ/NEW. >s >  Regards - Gotfryd >, > --G > ===================================================================== H > $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - > THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEi0 > $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plG > =====================================================================  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 14:51:11 -0500?, From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1A4EDF.4A5F4091@GCE.com>i   JF Mezei wrote:M= Fission power plants could produce a factor of ~10 less wasteo? if one used breeder reactors to use up the U-238. Note too thati= a "permanent" solution to storing the waste is not necessary.s< Store it till it gets not much more radioactive than the ore= it came from, which is a much quicker proposition, and you're  done.y8 There is technology to put the waste in glass or ceramic7 but the NIMBY issue has kept such facilities from beingr< used. The waste dumps of such waste as exists are now orders= of magnitude less radioactive than when they started. (Have a9B peek at Clancy's discussion on mining them for other radioactives,> some of which can be used for explosives, for amusement here.)  > The current solution is more like the former owners of my lot,? where they just buried their garbage now and then after burningt? what would burn. It's common practice in the country...just nott practical for city types.-  @ Solar is clean...if you ignore the costs to make the collectors,B and ignore the amount of area that has to be covered in collectors@ (instead of plants or whatnot) to use it. In mid latitudes thereD is as I recall a factor of 11 you need to account for night, clouds,> etc. in energy collection, times the inefficiencies of storing? energy, times those of the collectors themselves. The land areae9 problem might be partly solved by making road surfaces bep9 solar collectors but the area needed is probably larger.    > FWIW I suspect fission, for the time being, is technically the; least intrusive or capital intensive way to power (and thusd> also feed) our civilization with minimum damage to the planet.9 Fusion over the long term would of course be much better.  >  > Robert Deininger wrote:LM > > Don't forget, nuclear plants don't make greenhouse gasses.  Or ozone.  Orf > > ozone-depleting CFCs.g > M > But they generate lots of nuclear waste and there is currently no permanentwO > solution to what to do with all that stuff. That is equivalent to you putting-N > your garbage on the street once a week, but there is never any truck to come
 > pick it up.c > O > Hydro electric may be "clean" but it also destroys/changes the environment bykK > flooding large areas. About the only truly clean energy sources are wind,oK > geothermal, tidal and solar. Once they get fusion and antimatter reactorss$ > working, the problems may go away. > I > Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate the O > electricity somewhere. Bicycles however are great for transportation and they  > keep you in shape.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 01:34:11 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1AC973.8E860948@infopuls.com>   JF Mezei wrote:i   [SNIPi  M > Consider companies that have no problems using Microsoft software and intelyP > 8086 game controllers to control serious stuff because it costs less than realO > machines such as Alpha/vms. Sorry, but I don't  trust private enterprise withtF > nuclear power because the pressures to make nuclear power profitableM > necessitates some compopromises since safe nuclear power is not profitable.g  > As an interesting side note: Edward Yourdon reported in a talk> he gave 1995 in Europe that a nuclear power station in the USA@ was controlled by an application based on an Excel spread sheet.@ Unfortunately we didn't go into detail so I don't know what part* of the power plant was controlled by that.  : Besided the operation there is one additional problem with< nuclear power: where to store the high radiation left overs.   [SNIP]   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.307 ************************<3B17B1FE.2D04E7A4@bbc.co.uk>d   Me@home.com wrote:  L > Well, the question is in the title. I have a bunch of DCL procedures which > did-M > remote RMS access via DECnet. They should now run on systems (Alpha/OpenVMScI > 7.2-1) where DECnet is not running anymore (and will probably never run 	 > again).cA&KUNNY/"0A6[X$6)Z30L^"*='F<[>O]:QYI&M03 =M#E1R)MG)2[L@&=$'ZO<2_X.'M^Y5K]3]M0L]A-IGN$]%FI-@7%630F1D7"GM4 =M5JA>%%C?0720<OT`6L>\:IAJ3XYNK+:39C[SX69]HH.6.`/W<&92PD-E[QS*5 =M\B>+OQ$1=.FFNK)S7SD*#B@L1QQ6I7-&0I0Y#DL=;970=/ZL\4X"MI.=A4SS 6 =MR*0WGQ%BDIZAVMGRJWU\I&J?'C9GCE)OCB25.?)N]0]%QV;DW*/$]<,6;X(H7 =M/35[4O@?&/Z-5&P7N#+"U/5*)>"M$\HMM'&&\R-#1Y>ISG^51LK*4MRA,NQF8 =M;FEFXZ,LMJ+5TBUKI(&%B$*(FHR2J?O!>5DTNF1XEP9QLR%9P8*"VQA9X.]:
3 0 58066.01599^^5051 0 12      wrote     z