1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 04 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 308       Contents:, RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun) (OT) Salutation was RE: disk benchmarking - Re: (OT) Salutation was RE: disk benchmarking # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging  Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/2333 Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? 7 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? & Re: Call VMS system services from java& Re: Call VMS system services from java. Can the MIME tool in 7.2-1 be non-interactive?. cancel <QGOZyrwU8sI$@eisner.encompasserve.org> Re: CD-RW on a VMS system. Charon-VAX hobbiest  Re: Charon-VAX hobbiest  Charon-VAX hobbyist ' Re: CHARON-VAX: Help/mess does not work  Re: disk benchmarking 9 Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager 9 Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager 9 Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager 9 Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager 9 RE: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager A Forcing release of source code (Was: Providence and Worcester...) < RE: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st> Global warming? was: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? Re: hszterm software Re: hszterm software Re: hszterm software Re: hszterm software/ Re: Need VAX maintenance documentation urgently  OT - demise of ML770 Re: OT - demise of ML770 Re: OT - demise of ML770 Re: OT - demise of ML770I Re: OT: Open Source and the Providence and Worchester	Railroad,and Alphas F OT: Open Source and the Providence and Worchester Railroad,	and AlphasJ Re: OT: Open Source and the Providence and Worchester Railroad,	and Alphas2 Re: Pathworks V5.0F ECO2+W2Kpatch W2K+SP2 problems! Re: Performance Monitoring on VMS & PIPE, was: Function to measure time...D Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in LondonD Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in LondonD Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in London+ Re: Providence and Worchester (cq) Railroad 2 Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas2 Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas6 Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options RE: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  UCX address change Re: UCX address change Veritas x OpenVMS  VMS Securitys and logging  Re: VMS Securitys and logging ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) RE: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:43:18 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> 5 Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EE1@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]  5 > company. Marketing success is no quality criterion.   K I completely agree.  Remember, though, that a quality product is no good if F nobody uses it.  Conversely, it brings much more benefit to all of its# users, the more of them that exist.    Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:52:49 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au 2 Subject: (OT) Salutation was RE: disk benchmarking5 Message-ID: <01K4DQ3IAUMQ0011S9@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Dan,  6 >In article <01K4CC928HR600101T@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>,)  <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote: 	 >>Hamlyn,  >> >>>Dear Mr. Sture, >>G >>Within this newsgroup/mailing list (and others), this form of address 
 >>invariable    >>heralds an insulting response. > I >As a side note, I'd disagree on this point. I think it's actually a case  >of cultural interpretation. > M >For example, as an American, I grew up thinking that there was no difference K >in whether I addressed a person by their first or last name. However, when I >I got to work with a lot of different people around the world, I quickly N >learned that it was different elsewhere. You wouldn't believe how *extremely*G >offended and angry people can get when I didn't use 'Mr.' as a mark of = >respect -- they said I was "just another arrogant American".  > M >So, I tend to use Mr./Mrs./Ms. form of addressing if I remember to... unless L >I clearly know the other person well. (And, of course, sometimes I slip andN >revert to my more familiar habit of referring to people by their first name.)K >People are pretty good about telling me when it's okay to refer to them by  >their first name. > H >Me? I prefer people call me Dan, but have no objections if they're moreF >comfortable with referring to me as Mr. Foster. (Or even "that Foster
 >fellow" ;) )   G I think it's not just a cultural change, but an age/peer change.  I am  K fundamentally in agreement with you.  And yes, you are right that business  A association with different countries does add an extra dimension.   O When I first started work in 1961 in the UK, I would never dream of calling my  L immediate boss (only 2 grades difference) anything other than Mr.  As I got M older and gained a few grades myself, the distinction started to waver.  The  P "big boss" was still always Mr (or Sir Fred in a govt org in the UK), but a few  grades different was just Fred.   P When I came to Australia (so called classless -- ha!), everyone called everyone J else Fred.  I am still uncomfortable at times, much as you have described.  L However, I stand by my original comment.  And we do have people from pretty O well all nations here who all seem happy using given names.  In newsgroups, we  M are all peers distinguished only by our technical knowledge within fields in   that newsgroup.   N Some of us might be CEOs, some Mr or Dr, some many years experienced and some N just novice operators.  We are all equal on the newsgroup, and it is still my 8 impression that use of the formal does anticipate abuse.  * O.K., it's just my take on the salutation.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development, 
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australia    Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people, ; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 10:46:04 -0500 3 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) 6 Subject: Re: (OT) Salutation was RE: disk benchmarking3 Message-ID: <CJvOzj$XY5QZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   5 In article <01K4DQ3IAUMQ0011S9@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, ' paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  > H > When I came to Australia (so called classless -- ha!), everyone calledE > everyone else Fred.  I am still uncomfortable at times, much as you  > have described.   6 Well Fred, Isn't it a bit confusing at times also? :-)   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only   * With Dr. Suess it was just too many Daves.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 10:24:00 -0500 3 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) , Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10003 Message-ID: <mffj1q2Ier00@eisner.encompasserve.org>   * In article <3B1966F7.4AD9383A@virgin.net>,+ Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.network> writes:  >  > John Santos wrote: > B > However, I don't think it negotiates full/half duplex correctly. > F >> Under heavy load, DECnet logs lots of "alignment" and "frame check"I >> errors to OPCOM.  Either setting the ew?0_mode to FastHD or explicitly 2 >> changing the switch to full-duplex solves this. >> > P > I've given up trying to make 100FD work reliably to most of our switches (fromO > VMS). Even if I force modes at both ends *sometimes* it still doesn't work. I M > have found that 100 Half Duplex works on every single occasion. If you have P > very heavy two way network traffic then this would not be an option of course.  ? Do you have any half duplex segments on your LAN?  If you do, a = network adapter set to full duplex can send more data to that = segment than the hosts on it can handle, resulting in dropped  packets and retransmissions.  O > Every other piece of hardware/software seems to reliably autonegotiate so why N > not VMS. The same cards in some of our NT servers autonegotiate correctly so. > it's a software problem as far as I can see.  E I personally have seen autonegotiaton fail on on non-OpenVMS systems, D and have been given advice from several Networking people who seldomE if ever work on OpenVMS systems to disable autonegotiation where ever 	 possible.   G From a networking class that I had just over a year ago, the instructor C explained that the reason was a lack of a standard way of doing the @ negotiation.  Newer equipment uses better algorithms than older.  B If all of your networking equipment was from the same vendor, than( autonegotiation has a chance of working.  C If you are a multiple vendor shop, then it just a matter of luck if ! autonegotiation will work at all.   G When the firmware of a network card is set to autonegotiation mode, the A host operating system is totally uninvolved with the negotiation.   H Just because two links use the same model of hub and lan cards, does not, mean they are at the same firmware revision.     -John  Personal Opinion Only  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:05:14 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging( Message-ID: <9fg0vv$qdh$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  H Owing to this joke, many (potential) customers will at least notice that9 Compaq is willing to support VMS for another two decades.  That should help, right?  
 Hans Vlems  = Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 7 news:j_CS6.15475$QP6.6317215@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...  > 3 > "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message ; > news:l8sR6.357031$fs3.57329928@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com... I > > Sorta proves that Compaq marketing is still not sure exactly what the < > > letters VMS mean.  (Very Mean System mabye?)  That basic misunderstandingB > > makes it difficult to successfully mount a marketing campaign. > >  > L > FYI, I sent a copy of the article from THE INQUIRER to Marcomm VP Kay HartF > at Compaq. Not surprisingly, I did not receive a response. Through a variety K > of sources, I learned that VMS Marketing made a conscious decision to say K > nothing about the gaffe. After all, turning such a marketing gaffe into a ? > joke would be, well, umm, er, NOT THE WAY COMPAQ DOES THINGS.  > G > Hence the V73 packaging will be a Source of Ridicule for some time to  come.  >  > Why am I not surprised?  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:59:01 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging' Message-ID: <3B1BA235.8AD59A20@fsi.net>    Hans Vlems wrote:  > J > Owing to this joke, many (potential) customers will at least notice that; > Compaq is willing to support VMS for another two decades.  > That should help, right? >  > Hans Vlems  ) $ EDIT/EDT/NOCOMMAND THE_WORLD_OF.OPENVMS  *SET MODE DREAM    ? > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 9 > news:j_CS6.15475$QP6.6317215@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...  > > 5 > > "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message = > > news:l8sR6.357031$fs3.57329928@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com... K > > > Sorta proves that Compaq marketing is still not sure exactly what the > > > > letters VMS mean.  (Very Mean System mabye?)  That basic > misunderstandingD > > > makes it difficult to successfully mount a marketing campaign. > > >  > > N > > FYI, I sent a copy of the article from THE INQUIRER to Marcomm VP Kay HartH > > at Compaq. Not surprisingly, I did not receive a response. Through a	 > variety M > > of sources, I learned that VMS Marketing made a conscious decision to say M > > nothing about the gaffe. After all, turning such a marketing gaffe into a A > > joke would be, well, umm, er, NOT THE WAY COMPAQ DOES THINGS.  > > I > > Hence the V73 packaging will be a Source of Ridicule for some time to  > come.  > >  > > Why am I not surprised?  > >  > >      --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:54:07 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging= Message-ID: <zaOS6.21551$zl5.6585942@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message " news:9fg0vv$qdh$1@news.IAEhv.nl...J > Owing to this joke, many (potential) customers will at least notice that; > Compaq is willing to support VMS for another two decades.  > That should help, right? >   H It can't hurt. Sure, it's an embarassing slip-up, but not the end of theK world. I thought the best recourse was to take a light-hearted approach and  "make lemonade out of a lemon."   9 The Powers That Be at Compaq apparently felt differently.   J If I was King, er, Capellas For a Day, my first edict would be to find theI corporate graphics person responsible for the gaffe. Once said person was H found, I would sentence him or her to a day of education on the products that Compaq sells.  > I would then find out who had oversight authority and ultimateJ responsibility for the packaging design (somebody MUST have to sign off onC this sort of thing, right?). This person would immediately become a - contributor to the OPEX Reduction Initiative.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:24:48 GMT . From: "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com># Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233 = Message-ID: <k6LS6.109121$I5.25552283@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>   I That's odd -- I seem to recall the 200 being full flash; I thought it was : the AS 100 (AS 200 4/100?) that was half flash, wasn't it?  C In this case, the user indicated that he WAS using SRM (to wit, the F reference to the >>> prompt), and that doing a "show dev" indicated noK devices available.  That sounds more like unsupported hardware.  The remedy I very likely would be to upgrade to the latest firmware (or to ensure that ) the hardware in the system is supported).   >  http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readme.html   Aaron  --> Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html> Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org/I "vi troff ps su fsck grep rm du - - - And they call this a 'language'???"   > cstranslations <cstranslations@email.msn.com> wrote in message# news:uS2hO1K7AHA.257@cpmsnbbsa09... + > When you post please do so in plain text.  > I > Windows NT requires the ARC console. OpenVMS and Tru64 both require the  SRM L > console. The AS 200 is a "half flash" system; you can have the SRM console1 > loaded or the ARC console loaded, but not both.S :t :oK > You'll also need a recent copy of the firmware CD (or you'll need to down $ > load it from the Compaq web site). >  >e5 > "EL BORICUA" <boriqua210@home.com> wrote in messagee/ > news:006501c0ec95$ade93d00$cb01a8c0@pc1ghz...a > Hi,  >eI > I have an alphastation running windows NT and would like to run OpenVMSn but4H > for some reason I cannot change the boot mode to OpenVMS. Every time a haltG > the system and I do show device at the boot prompt >>> don't show anyaE > devices available.Do I need to change something withing the consoleS settinge > in order to install VMS? >t > thanks in advance... > Dave >a >l >G >r >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:52:30 +0100s  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233pH Message-ID: <OF5AA53300.6ED994EF-ON80256A61.00469B61@qedi.quintiles.com>  F The AlphaStation 200 is a full flash system, at least in its 200 4/166 guise. Steve.   Aaron Sakovich wrote:i >>>aI That's odd -- I seem to recall the 200 being full flash; I thought it wast: the AS 100 (AS 200 4/100?) that was half flash, wasn't it? <<<a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:24:53 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233f2 Message-ID: <F_LS6.982$fi2.26231@news.cpqcorp.net>  1 Actually, I think you're both correct.  I've seen / AlphaStation 200s (at least the 4/166 variety)  2 in both half-flash and full-flash memory versions.  9 Since the original poster said he's seeing the >>> promptS7 (I think, as others have mentioned it's a lot better toa7 post as plain text) he may have the full flash version.l6 However, to be save, it would be a good idea to update8 to the latest version of the console firmware and select5 the SRM (OpenVMS as Operating System, if you're stilli in ARC) console.  : If you have done this and still don't see any peripherals,4 make sure all the connections are good, and post the9 output of a SHOW CONFIGURATION command at the >>> prompt.e   -- n(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have aa5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:48:43 -06001 From: "BPollard@micron.com" <bpollard@micron.com>i< Subject: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?0 Message-ID: <9fg73l$aau$1@admin-srv3.micron.com>  F My company still uses VMS platforms to run our mfg programs and accessH Sybase on Unix.  We even use Omni to access RMS files.  Sybase is endingL support for Open Client and Omni-Connect Jan 31, 2003.  Are we the only onesH raising a stink about continued support for VMS by sybase?  There latestK version is 10.0.4 and they recently stated in my tech support case " VMS isJH a dying and unsupported version as far as Sybase is concerned".  I wouldK like to know if anyone else is interesting in working with us to convincing]3 Sybase to continue support for VMS into the future.M   bpollard@micron.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:18:00 -0400D# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>o@ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?+ Message-ID: <3B1BB4B8.FF24DAD5@hsc.vcu.edu>u  O mm.. if you can't convince them, try www.openlinksw.com, they seem to make odbc"> drivers for everything to everything...  good luck with both..   Jim9   "BPollard@micron.com" wrote:  H > My company still uses VMS platforms to run our mfg programs and accessJ > Sybase on Unix.  We even use Omni to access RMS files.  Sybase is endingN > support for Open Client and Omni-Connect Jan 31, 2003.  Are we the only onesJ > raising a stink about continued support for VMS by sybase?  There latestM > version is 10.0.4 and they recently stated in my tech support case " VMS istJ > a dying and unsupported version as far as Sybase is concerned".  I wouldM > like to know if anyone else is interesting in working with us to convincing-5 > Sybase to continue support for VMS into the future.1 >  > bpollard@micron.com.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 06:58:17 -0700, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>/ Subject: Re: Call VMS system services from javaa4 Message-ID: <9fg45o$3pqbn$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>   Hi,  >>G >    I have written some software which allows a programmer to call VMStF > system services and LIB$ routines from Java. It is available free of charge > at ...  L Wow! Thanks a bunch.  Since I've started playing with netbeans and tomcat onG VMS, I've been thinking that something along these lines would be nice.h  I Btw, tomcat (csws_java) works well, netbeans requires lots of memory, theiJ 256mb on my XP900 is barely adequate after I disabled lots of the modules.I All I really use is the compiler/editor (nice).  I can't get CVS to work,e commandoJ line or embedded, which I would like to have and I need to figure out ant.  L All part of my effort to show the *nixy folks around here that indeed VMS is part of the 21st century too.o   Jim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:59:20 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)v/ Subject: Re: Call VMS system services from javap0 Message-ID: <3b1bafec.17995175@news.demon.co.uk>   Hi Jim,n  # Way cool.  Looks like a great idea.   5 I'd be interested in talking to you offline about it.n   Jim Johnsonb4 jim dot johnson at software dash exploration dot com  E On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:23:53 +0100, "jbrankin" <jbrankin@ntlworld.com>s wrote:   >u >r >Hi, >,F >   I have written some software which allows a programmer to call VMSL >system services and LIB$ routines from Java. It is available free of charge >atd >n >     http://www.j2vms.co.uk >tK >  It comes with no warranty or guarantee. Be advised that it was developedtK >at home using the hobbyist license and has never been used in a real worldn
 >application.g >eG >  I would like some help  to develop it a bit further. I would like toa
 >develop aL >lexicals-like interface so the user would not have to create item lists andH >the like,  which  is cumbersome in Java. If anyone would be prepared to+ >lend a hand with that please get in touch.t >e >Regards >c >Jim Brankin >c >e   Jim JohnsonI Software Exploration, Ltd.' Software Navigation and Discovery Toolse   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:38:30 -0000e- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)h7 Subject: Can the MIME tool in 7.2-1 be non-interactive?o/ Message-ID: <thnhsm4eps8mbd@news.supernews.com>y  	 Hi Folks,c  K I'm trying to use MIME on OpenVMS 7.2-1 to encode a file.  I need to do it  F from a command file - not interactively.  Is anyone aware of a way to K prevent MIME from demanding interactive input via the editor when creating e a new message?   ws   --  1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>0   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **a   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 09:40:33 -0500h- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-7 Subject: cancel <QGOZyrwU8sI$@eisner.encompasserve.org> 3 Message-ID: <TWI1l3nwhSIk@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  . cancel <QGOZyrwU8sI$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:12:03 +0100; From: "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk>r# Subject: Re: CD-RW on a VMS system. . Message-ID: <9fgfhu$fea$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>  H 1). In all cases I've tried the Windows and Unix settings on the Plextor before I've posted.   / 2). It's a VAXstation 4000-60 with OpenVMS 6.2.s  B 3). When I said busted websites in the original posting it was theD ftp://v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de/... website that I had in mind. AnyI connection gets rejected either at work or at home there for I cannot geta( hold of the 1.10a07 version of CDrecord.  9 I've only been able to get 1.8a9 from the Tmesis website.@   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 09:21:58 -0500t- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Charon-VAX hobbiest3 Message-ID: <QGOZyrwU8sI$@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  F I hadn't seen any announcements, but Charon-VAX hobbiest seems to have come back last month.r  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationv= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupsE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:43:54 -0300c) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn  Subject: Re: Charon-VAX hobbiestL Message-ID: <OFE9AFE17F.0A7A9B25-ON03256A61.004B59B0@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  - They should make an agreement with VMWare....x  = VMWare has marketing, and is a known brand name - they dont !n   Regardsi FC        > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) em 04/06/2001 11:21:58  9 Favor responder a koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)M             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com        Assunto: Charon-VAX hobbiest      F I hadn't seen any announcements, but Charon-VAX hobbiest seems to have come back last month.n  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationg= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouptE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 09:41:08 -0500m- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)l Subject: Charon-VAX hobbyist3 Message-ID: <QhJMOcdoFG37@eisner.encompasserve.org>   A  I didn't see any announcement, but I looked and found Charon-VAX   hobbyist came back last month.t  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationl= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupmE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinga   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 06:45:37 -0700 - From: afeldman@gfigroup.com (Alan E. Feldman)40 Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX: Help/mess does not work= Message-ID: <af1e4ce6.0106040545.66e66cb3@posting.google.com>d  Z Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in message news:<3B190424.1F754C67@gmx.ch>... > When doing a l >  > $ help/mess pkgreqdp > 
 > I get this:p >  > Message number 05FD8013s > (and many others similar)  > 6 > Actually a simple $ help/mess gives the same result. > The HELP facility is ok. >   < I had this problem when upgrading from VMS V6.1 to V6.2. TheC workaround is to copy MSGHLP$ENGLISH.EXE -- which is located in the9F SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB] directory -- from a V6.1 system. If you don't haveD a V6.1 system, I guess you could try copying it from another version of VMS.b   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:17:02 +0000 (UTC)& From: dsf@frontiernet.net (Dan Foster) Subject: Re: disk benchmarking4 Message-ID: <9ffcle$dt8$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>  5 In article <01K4CC928HR600101T@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>,t)  <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote:  >Hamlyn, >n >>Dear Mr. Sture,A >rF >Within this newsgroup/mailing list (and others), this form of address >invariable  >heralds an insulting response.e  H As a side note, I'd disagree on this point. I think it's actually a case of cultural interpretation.d  L For example, as an American, I grew up thinking that there was no differenceJ in whether I addressed a person by their first or last name. However, whenH I got to work with a lot of different people around the world, I quicklyM learned that it was different elsewhere. You wouldn't believe how *extremely*eF offended and angry people can get when I didn't use 'Mr.' as a mark of< respect -- they said I was "just another arrogant American".  L So, I tend to use Mr./Mrs./Ms. form of addressing if I remember to... unlessK I clearly know the other person well. (And, of course, sometimes I slip andsM revert to my more familiar habit of referring to people by their first name.)nJ People are pretty good about telling me when it's okay to refer to them by their first name..  G Me? I prefer people call me Dan, but have no objections if they're more E comfortable with referring to me as Mr. Foster. (Or even "that Foster  fellow" ;) )   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 07:57:10 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brrB Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems ManagerL Message-ID: <OF9E9E55EA.8B8378CC-ON03256A61.003C1E3F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  J I believe you can post this kind of message.  We are a small family  :-)))   RegardsA   FC        9 "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> em 01/06/2001 21:31:59,  4 Favor responder a "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr      > Assunto: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager    G Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.w ButeK I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Manager and/K I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of the jobeI websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area or ag* website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. --     Thanks,t  
 Richard Bjersr Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 07:52:02 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brnB Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems ManagerL Message-ID: <OFD35FD98B.802E749D-ON03256A61.003B95F5@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  G For non americans,  it is better www.jobrecruit.com or www.jobserve.coms  G As USA is much more complicated for a foreigner to work (except Indianso
 nowadays),6 Europe is more "opened" - excep Austria nowadays ! ! !   REgardst   FC            > "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> em 02/06/2001 02:03:38  9 Favor responder a "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com>b             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma      B Assunto: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager    J Well, I just went to www.dice.com and used the search terms VMS an MANAGERD and came up with 229 matches.  These include several in New York and Chicagoo. as well as California, Pennsylvania and Texas.  H Now, yes there is a lot of chaf here, but there are jobs in the catagory you $ are looking for from what I can see.  J A search of a similar nature on www.hotjobs.com gives 19 results, on is at Perdue, in Indiana.   
 Good Luck!   --
 Bill Pederseni CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learningu
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  5 "Hamlyn Mootoo" <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in message:% news:3B183655.C334477F@bigfoot.com...4 > How many years experience? > Perm or contract?/% > What's your desired salary or rate?2 > Are you willing to relocate? >tI > I may know some perm positions or contracts you might try for depending  on theS
 > above info.a >a > HM >a > Rich Bjers wrote:t > K > > Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.e ButpK > > I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Manageru andoK > > I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of theo joblK > > websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area or  a . > > website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. > > -- > >l > > Thanks,- > >o > > Richard Bjersm > > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:12:06 GMTr( From: "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com>B Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager8 Message-ID: <qWKS6.71567$4x5.12620351@typhoon.kc.rr.com>  I Thanks for your response because a lot of the other news group would have * gotten mad at me for this type of message.   --     Thanks,o  
 Richard Bjers  3284 Rocker Drivey Apartment 4  Cincinnati, Ohio 45239-4149d Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com Home: (513) 245-9604 Cellular: (513) 315-3547      6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OF9E9E55EA.8B8378CC-ON03256A61.003C1E3F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br...L > I believe you can post this kind of message.  We are a small family  :-))) >e	 > Regardsa >l > FC >n >n >g >n; > "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> em 01/06/2001 21:31:59o > 6 > Favor responder a "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> >  >h >y >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come >o >r >t@ > Assunto: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager >n >iI > Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.d > But.I > I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Manager, anduI > I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of thea joboK > websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area or ai, > website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. > -- >, > 	 > Thanks,s >0 > Richard Bjerst > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com >> >  >t >o >- >  >m >  >a >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:12:07 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>-B Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager+ Message-ID: <3B1B8927.828744F7@hsc.vcu.edu>M  - nah....  we understand bread and butter!!!!!!t  ! j.  best of luck and blessings...2   Rich Bjers wrote:r  K > Thanks for your response because a lot of the other news group would have , > gotten mad at me for this type of message. >h > -- >-	 > Thanks,y >r > Richard Bjersh > 3284 Rocker Drived
 > Apartment 4e > Cincinnati, Ohio 45239-4149r > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com > Home: (513) 245-9604 > Cellular: (513) 315-3547 >h8 > <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageH > news:OF9E9E55EA.8B8378CC-ON03256A61.003C1E3F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br...N > > I believe you can post this kind of message.  We are a small family  :-))) > >e > > Regardsl > >' > > FC > >i > >l > >a > >r= > > "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> em 01/06/2001 21:31:59C > >U8 > > Favor responder a "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> > >e > >l > >i > >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como > >e > >  > >aB > > Assunto: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager > >g > >sK > > Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.g > > ButeK > > I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Manager  > andoK > > I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of them > jobjM > > websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area or aa. > > website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. > > -- > >o > >o > > Thanks,p > >m > > Richard Bjerse > > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com > >  > >i > >  > >e > >n > >  > >r > >  > >C > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:05:11 -0700 + From: Bill Pedersen <pedersen@CCSScorp.com>aB Subject: RE: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager@ Message-ID: <NCBBKNDCKADIEPEENLLOOEGJEMAA.pedersen@CCSScorp.com>  < No doubt, Fabio.  Thanks for the information on these sites.  L But the original post came from a newsgroup member in the Mid-western StatesK of the United States.  So I thought he could use the information from these 4 sites, since he was looking for employment near him.   Thanks,e   Bill.j  
 Bill Pedersens CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learninge http://www.VMS.St. 831-336-2708     -----Original Message-----) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bre, [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br]# Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 3:52 AM  To: Bill Pederseni Cc: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.CommB Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager    G For non americans,  it is better www.jobrecruit.com or www.jobserve.comu  G As USA is much more complicated for a foreigner to work (except Indians 
 nowadays),6 Europe is more "opened" - excep Austria nowadays ! ! !   REgardse   FC            > "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> em 02/06/2001 02:03:38  9 Favor responder a "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com>I             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms      B Assunto: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager    J Well, I just went to www.dice.com and used the search terms VMS an MANAGERD and came up with 229 matches.  These include several in New York and Chicago<. as well as California, Pennsylvania and Texas.  H Now, yes there is a lot of chaf here, but there are jobs in the catagory youi$ are looking for from what I can see.  J A search of a similar nature on www.hotjobs.com gives 19 results, on is at Perdue, in Indiana.a  
 Good Luck!   --
 Bill Pedersen  CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learningi
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  5 "Hamlyn Mootoo" <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in messagee% news:3B183655.C334477F@bigfoot.com...l > How many years experience? > Perm or contract?m% > What's your desired salary or rate?b > Are you willing to relocate? >lI > I may know some perm positions or contracts you might try for depending  on them
 > above info.  >l > HM >  > Rich Bjers wrote:g > K > > Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.d ButMK > > I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Manager- andaK > > I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of thes joboK > > websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area orD a3. > > website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. > > -- > >L > > Thanks,r > >d > > Richard Bjersr > > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com >u   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 10:39:03 -0500d9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)rJ Subject: Forcing release of source code (Was: Providence and Worcester...)3 Message-ID: <dicCgWxGh+z7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <JxKS6.71230$4x5.12609505@typhoon.kc.rr.com>, "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> writes:cJ > I think the third party software vendors are the ones trying to kill VMSL > because they do not want to support their software on all the platforms onI > the market.   They are forcing companies to move UNIX and Windows/NT bybN > giving higher priority to supporting their core business platforms.  We needN > to push back by requiring third party company to provide open source code toG > get our business and that will give us away to resolve software issueuN > ourselves.   Once these third party companies see that we are patching theirN > source code to run better on VMS then any other platform they have no choice > but to support VMS.u  @ I don't mean to be rude, but I see no indication in the above of0 any understanding of basic business motivations.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:21:56 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ stv- Message-ID: <0033000000708611000002L012*@MHS>E  % =0AAndrew has nerve bringing this up.   * Anyone who reads this newsgroup knows that/ the decomposition of Andrew's old posts resultsr- in a significant release of greenhouse gases.i   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETa% > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:02 AMaF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETH > Subject: Global warming? was: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status=   >T >lF > Actually Andrew, I think you'll find that the view that it was "justH > another cycle" as opposed to global warming created by the emission o= f:H > so-called "greenhouse gases" was expressed a number of years ago, wel= lc> > before the recent US Presidential race ever came into being. >.? > Whilst it's true that I cannot remember the exact individualst
 > involved ine; > expalining the other side of the argument, I do know thati > there was a BBC ; > program (probably in the "Horizon" series) that discusseds > this very thingmH > and whether "greenhouse gases" were actually doing any damage at all.=   >dH > I seem to recall having a discussion on it when I was doing mechanica= lo= > engineering research in Liverpool which would put it befores > September 1995.- >-9 > If you wish to belittle people in this newsgroup then I  > suggest that you doe: > a little digging in the various archives that are around > before doing so. >n > Steve. >r > Mr. Harrison wrote:e > >>>nD > > The overwhelming majority?  Oh really?  That's funny, as I don'tD > > believe you'll find that a majority of climate change SCIENTISTSF > > have actually confirmed that global warming is actually occurring,D > > and if it is that it's caused by greenhouse gases, which is whatF > > the Kyoto Treaty addresses.  It seems that there is as much weightE > > given to solar cycles are as plausible an explanation for climatec& > > changes that may be occurring now. > >  >j@ > Sorry but you are just parroting the Bush administration line.? > There is an overwhelming majority view that global warming isg< > happening backed up by hard data. There is a minority view= > expoused by yourself apparently and the Bush camp which hasn > tried to deny this.e >r? > In fact the majority of scientists are so concerned about thev; > Bush administrations denial tactics that 15 of the worlds : > leading scientific bodies have taken the step of writing? > an open letter to Bush with the full support of their membersm > condeming his action.- > <<<- >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:43:04 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.comG Subject: Global warming? was: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? H Message-ID: <OF8B20532E.181B0261-ON80256A61.00452B75@qedi.quintiles.com>  D Actually Andrew, I think you'll find that the view that it was "justF another cycle" as opposed to global warming created by the emission ofF so-called "greenhouse gases" was expressed a number of years ago, well< before the recent US Presidential race ever came into being.  I Whilst it's true that I cannot remember the exact individuals involved in-I expalining the other side of the argument, I do know that there was a BBClI program (probably in the "Horizon" series) that discussed this very thing E and whether "greenhouse gases" were actually doing any damage at all.-  F I seem to recall having a discussion on it when I was doing mechanicalK engineering research in Liverpool which would put it before September 1995.   K If you wish to belittle people in this newsgroup then I suggest that you doMI a little digging in the various archives that are around before doing so..   Steve.   Mr. Harrison wrote:  >>>mB > The overwhelming majority?  Oh really?  That's funny, as I don'tB > believe you'll find that a majority of climate change SCIENTISTSD > have actually confirmed that global warming is actually occurring,B > and if it is that it's caused by greenhouse gases, which is whatD > the Kyoto Treaty addresses.  It seems that there is as much weightC > given to solar cycles are as plausible an explanation for climatee$ > changes that may be occurring now. >v  > Sorry but you are just parroting the Bush administration line.= There is an overwhelming majority view that global warming is(: happening backed up by hard data. There is a minority view; expoused by yourself apparently and the Bush camp which hasg tried to deny this.e  = In fact the majority of scientists are so concerned about the.9 Bush administrations denial tactics that 15 of the worldsr8 leading scientific bodies have taken the step of writing= an open letter to Bush with the full support of their members  condeming his action.i <<<e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:55:50 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h Subject: Re: hszterm softwarew' Message-ID: <3B1BA176.BD665A5E@fsi.net>t   Rob Young wrote: > R > In article <3B1AFA0B.9C729341@wi.rr.com>, Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes: > T > > No, there is a real scripting tool for VMS which is used to communicate with the > > storageaO > > controllers.  Check out the Compaq storage web pages.  Someone may chime inh$ > > with the correct product name... > > Q > > This product will answer your last question: how to talk to HSGs from a batchr > > job *and* be supported., > >t > > -Scott :^) > >e > D >         Google does its thing , searching: "hsg80 script" reveals: > 
 > Software	 > Producto
 > Descriptionh >  > PRODUCT NAME: Compaq SANworksi > SPD: 80.55.00 3 >                      Command Scripter Version 1.0n > 
 > DESCRIPTION P > SANworks Command Scripter is application software that provides experienced ITL > managers with command-level control of StorageWorks  systems equipped with > HSG60,G > HSG80, HSZ70 and HSZ80 Array Controllers. Command Scripter works in atL > heterogeneous host environment that includes Compaq OpenVMS , Compaq Tru64? > UNIX, Microsoft Windows NT and Windows 2000, and Sun Solaris.iO > With Command Scripter, IT managers can create, edit and run script files that 	 > containeQ > StorageWorks Command Line Interpreter (CLI) commands. This scripting capabilityCD > allows automation of frequently performed StorageWorks operations. > 6 >         Searching "command scripter compaq" reveals: > 9 > http://www.compaq.com/products/sanworks/sanmgt/scs.htmlp > % >                                 Robt  F I see mention of a Command Scripter GUI requiring SWCC, but no mention< of a DCL-based interface or any other related prerequisites.  F So, the question remains: how does one "talk to" HSG's from an OpenVMSF batch job? Is the HSDSA-SCRIPT approach still effective? (Be specific, cite examples.)R   --   David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 11:45:24 -0500E+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)d Subject: Re: hszterm software03 Message-ID: <gax3WMEOQyOn@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <3B1BA176.BD665A5E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:t   > H > I see mention of a Command Scripter GUI requiring SWCC, but no mention> > of a DCL-based interface or any other related prerequisites. > H > So, the question remains: how does one "talk to" HSG's from an OpenVMSH > batch job? Is the HSDSA-SCRIPT approach still effective? (Be specific, > cite examples.)y >    	It supports CLI, read the SPD.    				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:23:35 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i Subject: Re: hszterm softwarec' Message-ID: <3B1BB607.8D38FC19@fsi.net>    Rob Young wrote: > ] > In article <3B1BA176.BD665A5E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o >  > >aJ > > I see mention of a Command Scripter GUI requiring SWCC, but no mention@ > > of a DCL-based interface or any other related prerequisites. > >oJ > > So, the question remains: how does one "talk to" HSG's from an OpenVMSJ > > batch job? Is the HSDSA-SCRIPT approach still effective? (Be specific, > > cite examples.)e > >o > ( >         It supports CLI, read the SPD. > % >                                 Rob   - Thanx for the URL in your previous post, BTW.V   QuotingaA http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/10734_na/10734_na.HTML:j  @ "Two interfaces are included in Command Scripter: a command lineH interface for local, direct connection to StorageWorks controllers and a Web-based interface ..."  G I need to access that CLI from OpenVMS batch using DCL. The above makes2E no mention of whether this is usable in a batch job. That informationmH can be found in the downloadable User Guide, AA-RN6EA-TE.pdf on page 3-4G (pg. 36 in Acrobat Reader or Exchange). It even shows an example of howo, to use it with SYS$INPUT pointing to a file.  G So, it looks like HSDSA-SCRIPT has "grown up" to become a real product,4B even if the two have no common lineage. I guess "Compaq Listens" -
 sometimes.  F Of course, this is a ".0" release (V1.0). So, we'll have to see how it shakes out in general practice.n   -- e David J. DachteraB dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.V   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:29:14 -0500h1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>f Subject: Re: hszterm softwarea' Message-ID: <3B1BB75A.47C67994@fsi.net>    Rob Young wrote: > ] > In article <3B1BA176.BD665A5E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:t >  > >nJ > > I see mention of a Command Scripter GUI requiring SWCC, but no mention@ > > of a DCL-based interface or any other related prerequisites. > >>J > > So, the question remains: how does one "talk to" HSG's from an OpenVMSJ > > batch job? Is the HSDSA-SCRIPT approach still effective? (Be specific, > > cite examples.)n > >o > ( >         It supports CLI, read the SPD. > % >                                 Roba   *CAVEAT*   Follow-up to my previous reply:   H According to the User's Guide, page 1-2 (Acrobat Reader pg. 14), CommandC Scripter only supports Fibre Channel (HSG60,-80) and SCSI (HSZ70 orn better).  B HSJ users are still left out in the cold unless they can live with
 HSDSA-SCRIPT.c  * Sorry - my enthusiasm was a bit premature.   -- 4 David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/O  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.:   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 08:37:37 -0700>' From: josezb@wbmassociates.com (josezb)b8 Subject: Re: Need VAX maintenance documentation urgently= Message-ID: <565b7669.0106040737.64761e3e@posting.google.com>   Z "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message news:<3B181631.B874E7F4@iee.org>... > josezb wrote:oJ > > I received a Maintenance Product Recommendation from Compaq's AssistedJ > > Services Group in which they quote an "MDS ON PC CD/1YR UPDATES" (PartF > > # MD-CDRPC-01).  This CD is supposed to have all the documentationG > > available.  I have the list of documents included, but I can't tell  > < > It's unlikely to have *all* the documentation. It probably9 > has more than enough to keep the VS4000-90 and VAX 7000-> > humming along nicely, but it will probably miss out anything: > from much before 1990 (if you are doing self-maintenance+ > you need to think about peripherals too).e > I > > from the titles if they are what's needed to maintain these machines. I > > I'm currently trying to buy it to see if it's what I need, but Compaqg* > > is having trouble making it available. > < > Really? It is (or was) a 3 CD set and would set a customer6 > back something like $5000 per annum ... I would have) > thought they'd have couriered one round ) > straight away wrapped in an invoice :-)n > 4 > I *believe* that this CD set is produced quarterly8 > and pressed by an external vendor. I ordered a similar2 > CD set some years ago and the deal was that they, > would place orders with the pressing plant: > every quarter and the plant would then deliver something3 > like six to nine weeks after that. Throw in a fewe5 > extra weeks for it to be posted from COMPAQ to you.b1 > If you are unlucky (liek I was) you could wait m2 > 5-6 months (by which time my machine was back in8 > action ...), if you are lucky it could be as little as > 3 months.! > E > > Somewhere someone must know what documentation DEC provided their0@ > > self-maintenance customers  I need to speak to that person. > 7 > Before CDs, we used to order whatever sounded nearestu8 > to the Technical Manual for whichever machine we cared= > about. Then we would scour that manual for docs that looked  > like they might be useful. > 8 > BTW: you are very unlikely to be able to find anything8 > to allow you to do component level repair on either of6 > those machines (even assuming you have the necessary7 > *expensive* re-working stations to cope with the high 7 > density IC packages). Board-level repair (i.e. board i4 > swapping and cable pulling) is certainly possible. > 5 > Look for system maintenance manuals and illustratedc > parts breakdowns (IPBs). >  > 	 > Antonio= Thanks Antonio, this helps   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:55:57 -0400. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> Subject: OT - demise of ML770e+ Message-ID: <9fg3vr$4v0$1@bob.news.rcn.net>c  F Just out of my curiousity, when was the ML770 officially 'retired'?  IK believe that Compaq signed up to re-badge the Unisys product only last June  2000.r  ) Was this due to poor sales, poor support?o   Ken Randellg  = Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 5 news:eGOO6.1626$zl5.693987@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...j > 4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:cjsmgtcrjq9vvtce7ptvb82upeo7bo5a89@4ax.com...6 > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 00:51:19 +0200, Christof Brass > > <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:L > >  > >sB > > >At the Technical Update I asked one Compaq representative why? > > >they didn't copy SUN's strategy in the UNIX market segmentdD > > >because this strategy seems to work much better than their own.@ > > >Answer: we don't want to have competition with our M$ based; > > >product line. Very strange answer to my understanding.a > >eG > > Translation: We would rather fill Microsoft's pockets than our own..G > > Recall that Compaq actually lost money on low end PCs last quarter. H > > Every single additional PC sale they made increased their loss. They4 > > would much rather this than make money it seems. > >m >iG > Compaq's fixation, fealty, and fawning over Microsoft is indeed a sadg thing.J > Win2K adoption rates are way below expectations. Datacenter Edition is aL > disaster (hasta la vista, ML770). And how many dollars has .NET brought in
 > for Compaq?e >fK > Every time Compaq sells a Wintel box, Compaq contributes to the installed  > base of Intel and Microsoft. >nL > Every time Compaq sells an Alpha box, Compaq contributed to the Alpha, and > VMS/Tru64 installed base.d >bH > By adopting a pro-Microsoft stance at the expense of its own products,; > Compaq is doing itself and its STOCKHOLDERS a disservice., >  >  >1   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 10:49:30 -0500:+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)c! Subject: Re: OT - demise of ML77003 Message-ID: <vjSCGx8$jyCM@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  \ In article <9fg3vr$4v0$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> writes:H > Just out of my curiousity, when was the ML770 officially 'retired'?  IM > believe that Compaq signed up to re-badge the Unisys product only last JuneR > 2000.e > + > Was this due to poor sales, poor support?i >   ; 	Poor sales.  Compaq remarked it was 5% of their "high-end":? 	ISS sales.  Consolidation was the aim, but what probably makes C 	more sense (if your not clustering over the internal switches withw7 	the OS) is to buy separate boxes in the NT/2000 world.r   				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:06:08 -0300y) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brP! Subject: Re: OT - demise of ML770nL Message-ID: <OFDB85DE6D.3DAEA7E2-ON03256A61.004D5343@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  2 People dont know how to make business nowadays....G Just this ....They dont know how to make log term commitments anymore !o  9 There is a word for this, but is not polite to say here !   $ Just remember the "Pretty Woman"....   Regardst   FC        ? "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> em 04/06/2001 10:55:57h  : Favor responder a "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-       Assunto: OT - demise of ML770     F Just out of my curiousity, when was the ML770 officially 'retired'?  IK believe that Compaq signed up to re-badge the Unisys product only last Junea 2000.w  ) Was this due to poor sales, poor support??   Ken Randellh  = Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagef5 news:eGOO6.1626$zl5.693987@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...  >t4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:cjsmgtcrjq9vvtce7ptvb82upeo7bo5a89@4ax.com...6 > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 00:51:19 +0200, Christof Brass > > <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:l > >c > >rB > > >At the Technical Update I asked one Compaq representative why? > > >they didn't copy SUN's strategy in the UNIX market segmentBD > > >because this strategy seems to work much better than their own.@ > > >Answer: we don't want to have competition with our M$ based; > > >product line. Very strange answer to my understanding.u > >mG > > Translation: We would rather fill Microsoft's pockets than our own.tG > > Recall that Compaq actually lost money on low end PCs last quarter.hH > > Every single additional PC sale they made increased their loss. They4 > > would much rather this than make money it seems. > >h > G > Compaq's fixation, fealty, and fawning over Microsoft is indeed a sad- thing.J > Win2K adoption rates are way below expectations. Datacenter Edition is aI > disaster (hasta la vista, ML770). And how many dollars has .NET broughte in
 > for Compaq?2 >8K > Every time Compaq sells a Wintel box, Compaq contributes to the installedu > base of Intel and Microsoft. >"H > Every time Compaq sells an Alpha box, Compaq contributed to the Alpha, ando > VMS/Tru64 installed base.s >pH > By adopting a pro-Microsoft stance at the expense of its own products,; > Compaq is doing itself and its STOCKHOLDERS a disservice.m >  >  >c   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:47:32 GMTd4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: OT - demise of ML770h= Message-ID: <UQPS6.21567$zl5.6607784@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>i   >y > Assunto: OT - demise of ML770a >h >nH > Just out of my curiousity, when was the ML770 officially 'retired'?  IH > believe that Compaq signed up to re-badge the Unisys product only last June > 2000.  >s+ > Was this due to poor sales, poor support?t  K It was in fact retired last month. I'd venture to guess that no more than a L dozen were sold. Nowhere near enough to justify the care and feeding effort.K You want 32 Intel processors? Buy a four-pack of ProLiant 8x00s and clusterCJ 'em. This solution would save you 30 percent over the cost of a Miss Piggy (internal name for the ML770).  K The ML770 suffered some serious scalability problems, especially in the I/O  department.   H And Compaq is working on its own McKinley-based 32 (or more) way system.K Makes sense: there aren't many apps certified for Windoze Enterprise DeluxepK Premium Envoy Class, or whatever they're calling the top-o-the-line WindozewL these days. What's more, the Unisys box was going to be upgraded to Itanium,J prudent customers will wait for McKinley. And Compaq is developing its ownI 32-way (or more) McKinley box, replete with WildFire technology and other  Good Things.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:43:30 -0400e+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>tR Subject: Re: OT: Open Source and the Providence and Worchester	Railroad,and Alphas# Message-ID: <sb1b9099.018@aaas.org>e  L Point taken. Open Source as it's currently used is free access by everyone =E to the source code. Going back to the original post, there was some =fL argument about the availability of Sybase on VMS. At least with the source =L you can fix any problems to the code yourself. Sybase, however, won't even = let you buy the source.d  I And on a side note, we need some kind of distinction between vendor who =qI give you the source, sell you the source, make the code open source, or =mH say no when you ask for the source. Here, if it's over $100,000 and we =0 can't have access to the source we don't buy it.  I >>> Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> 06/04/2001 1:13:13 PM >>>:# In article <sb1b6d1b.037@aaas.org>,a.  John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org> writes:1 |> My only comment is on the "Open Source" bit...  |>=20 D |> I think the whole Richard Stallman/Eric S. Raymond/GNU/Slashdot = revolution =3DK |> has led to a blurring of the lines with the idea of "Open Source". For =e =3DtG |> both of our financial apps (both running under OpenVMS) we own the =H source. =3DnH |> Now, I admit it did not come with it, but the additional cost was =3DI |> negligible (maybe $10k more for a $150k in software). We are free to =d =3DoL |> modify it however we want. Neither of the two companies has had any ill = =3DnI |> effect selling their customers their source (they have gotten some =3DeH |> excellent bug reports/fixes)...particularly the kind of ill effects = they =3DL |> would have seen from GPL'ing it or licensing under the BSD license.=3D20=   |>=20l6 |> I think this "Open Source" model works very well...  J What you have is not "Open Source".  Open Source does not mean you can getH access to the source it means anyone can.  You paid $10K for it and I amI certain you signed an agreement that you would not allow anyone else to =s see"I it.  Otherwise, why would anyone ever buy their product when they could =l geteG the source from the first guy who paid for it and then give it away.  =J That's Open Source.    K |>                                                       vendors can make =/
 money, =3DJ |> clients get the source, no one gets hurt. Our A/R software comes in a = =3DoJ |> Client Server version and a Mainframe Version. Mainframe runs on MVS, = =3DdL |> OS/390, HP-UX, OpenVMS, and I think a couple others. Client Server runs = =3DaI |> under Solaris, OpenVMS, and Windows NT (pretty much anyplace you can = 	 get a =3D2 |> COBOL compiler and Oracle). |>=20rK |> In my experience, this is pretty standard practice for applications of =n =3DcJ |> this size. When you're talking about 300 programs and a schema of 30+ = =3DdK |> tables, seeing inside isn't going to allow someone to rip you off, and =U any =3DnK |> program can be disassembled. I would never expect a company to give me =q =3DeK |> their software or give me their source, but what's the harm in selling =V it =3DK |> to me? The micro computer world seems to hold their source a little to =e =3DeH |> close to themselves. Our CRM software is a Wintel/SQL Server/Client =
 Server =3DL |> App (and pretty well written). The company was just bought, and the new = =3DoJ |> owner only does web based apps (translation: it's now twice the price = but =3DtK |> half the functionality). We're fighting to buy the source for the core =J =3DhL |> now, but they "don't give out their source". Hrmm...if you've abandoned = =3DrF |> the CS product then what harm is there in selling me the CS source?  J There are numerous free (in every sense) versions of Unix available today.F If you want to see the original AT&T Unix code you first need to get aF license.  Granted, that licemnse is free, but as recently as two yearsJ ago it was not.  Nobody sells a running version of the original AT&T Unix.I Why do they continue to require a license??  Why not just release it to =  the/G world??  Radio Shack has not sold a Z80 based computer in well over a =r decade. H And yet, the ROM code image needed for any of the available emulators isF still copyrighted and can not be freely distributed. Why??  Porbably = becausetH it still belongs to someone who still wants to control what is done withI his property.  Wether or not you think this is fair depends on which sidedL of the coin you are on.  Unless, of course, you don't believe in intelectua= lR property at all.   |>=20 G |> Sometimes I wonder if there are any sane people left on this planet.   3 I agree, but probably not in the same light as you.h   bill   --=20aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |C Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:12:19 -0400a+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>sO Subject: OT: Open Source and the Providence and Worchester Railroad,	and Alphasw# Message-ID: <sb1b6d1b.037@aaas.org>.  . My only comment is on the "Open Source" bit...  L I think the whole Richard Stallman/Eric S. Raymond/GNU/Slashdot revolution =H has led to a blurring of the lines with the idea of "Open Source". For =L both of our financial apps (both running under OpenVMS) we own the source. =C Now, I admit it did not come with it, but the additional cost was =eF negligible (maybe $10k more for a $150k in software). We are free to =I modify it however we want. Neither of the two companies has had any ill =nD effect selling their customers their source (they have gotten some =J excellent bug reports/fixes)...particularly the kind of ill effects they =F would have seen from GPL'ing it or licensing under the BSD license.=20  L I think this "Open Source" model works very well...vendors can make money, =G clients get the source, no one gets hurt. Our A/R software comes in a = G Client Server version and a Mainframe Version. Mainframe runs on MVS, =-I OS/390, HP-UX, OpenVMS, and I think a couple others. Client Server runs =tL under Solaris, OpenVMS, and Windows NT (pretty much anyplace you can get a = COBOL compiler and Oracle).8  H In my experience, this is pretty standard practice for applications of =G this size. When you're talking about 300 programs and a schema of 30+ =aL tables, seeing inside isn't going to allow someone to rip you off, and any =H program can be disassembled. I would never expect a company to give me =K their software or give me their source, but what's the harm in selling it = H to me? The micro computer world seems to hold their source a little to =L close to themselves. Our CRM software is a Wintel/SQL Server/Client Server =I App (and pretty well written). The company was just bought, and the new = K owner only does web based apps (translation: it's now twice the price but =eH half the functionality). We're fighting to buy the source for the core =I now, but they "don't give out their source". Hrmm...if you've abandoned =eC the CS product then what harm is there in selling me the CS source?I  D Sometimes I wonder if there are any sane people left on this planet.  J >>> Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> 06/04/2001 10:54:41 AM >>>8 In article <JxKS6.71230$4x5.12609505@typhoon.kc.rr.com>,+  "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> writes:oI |> I think the third party software vendors are the ones trying to kill =m VMSiL |> because they do not want to support their software on all the platforms = onJ |> the market.   They are forcing companies to move UNIX and Windows/NT byF |> giving higher priority to supporting their core business platforms.  G While this is most likely a chicken/egg thing, my personal take is thatsD you probably have it backwards.  It is the decrease in VMS usage (orI possibly the perception of that decrease int he indistry) that is causing2J many people to move away from supporting VMS with their products.  SupportJ costs money and requires manpower.  You don't hire people to sit around=20D reading the paper in order to have them when that one customer needsG support.  You drop that customer, cut your losses and move on to the=20e! more profitable business centers.  =20nK |>                                                                     We =t needI |> to push back by requiring third party company to provide open source =t code tolH |> get our business and that will give us away to resolve software issue |> ourselves. =20u  H But the problem is they don't want your business.  they don't see VMS asJ being part of the business at all.  If you start throwing in ridiculous=20I requirements like "open source" they will fall down on the floor laughinge4 and when they stopp, they will tell you to buzz off.  I |>            Once these third party companies see that we are patching =n theirlJ |> source code to run better on VMS then any other platform they have no = choice |> but to support VMS.  I Actually, they have a choice and many of them have already made it.  They.G said goodbye to VMS.  It should be obvious by this point that VMS userssC do not make up enough of the market for these third party package =e
 developers# to care about one way or the other.o  F The only answer is to get back enough of the market to make them care.; The above suggestions are hardly likely to accomplish that.    bill   --=20nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |C Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20c   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 17:13:13 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)eS Subject: Re: OT: Open Source and the Providence and Worchester Railroad,	and Alphask, Message-ID: <9fgfj9$30kb$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  # In article <sb1b6d1b.037@aaas.org>,c.  John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org> writes:1 |> My only comment is on the "Open Source" bit...d |> gO |> I think the whole Richard Stallman/Eric S. Raymond/GNU/Slashdot revolution =lK |> has led to a blurring of the lines with the idea of "Open Source". For = O |> both of our financial apps (both running under OpenVMS) we own the source. =>F |> Now, I admit it did not come with it, but the additional cost was =I |> negligible (maybe $10k more for a $150k in software). We are free to =rL |> modify it however we want. Neither of the two companies has had any ill =G |> effect selling their customers their source (they have gotten some = M |> excellent bug reports/fixes)...particularly the kind of ill effects they =pI |> would have seen from GPL'ing it or licensing under the BSD license.=20  |> r6 |> I think this "Open Source" model works very well...  J What you have is not "Open Source".  Open Source does not mean you can getH access to the source it means anyone can.  You paid $10K for it and I amK certain you signed an agreement that you would not allow anyone else to seedK it.  Otherwise, why would anyone ever buy their product when they could getvL the source from the first guy who paid for it and then give it away.  That's Open Source.    R |>                                                       vendors can make money, =J |> clients get the source, no one gets hurt. Our A/R software comes in a =J |> Client Server version and a Mainframe Version. Mainframe runs on MVS, =L |> OS/390, HP-UX, OpenVMS, and I think a couple others. Client Server runs =O |> under Solaris, OpenVMS, and Windows NT (pretty much anyplace you can get a =w |> COBOL compiler and Oracle). |> cK |> In my experience, this is pretty standard practice for applications of =hJ |> this size. When you're talking about 300 programs and a schema of 30+ =O |> tables, seeing inside isn't going to allow someone to rip you off, and any =eK |> program can be disassembled. I would never expect a company to give me =cN |> their software or give me their source, but what's the harm in selling it =K |> to me? The micro computer world seems to hold their source a little to =eO |> close to themselves. Our CRM software is a Wintel/SQL Server/Client Server =lL |> App (and pretty well written). The company was just bought, and the new =N |> owner only does web based apps (translation: it's now twice the price but =K |> half the functionality). We're fighting to buy the source for the core =aL |> now, but they "don't give out their source". Hrmm...if you've abandoned =F |> the CS product then what harm is there in selling me the CS source?  J There are numerous free (in every sense) versions of Unix available today.F If you want to see the original AT&T Unix code you first need to get aF license.  Granted, that licemnse is free, but as recently as two yearsJ ago it was not.  Nobody sells a running version of the original AT&T Unix.K Why do they continue to require a license??  Why not just release it to therM world??  Radio Shack has not sold a Z80 based computer in well over a decade. H And yet, the ROM code image needed for any of the available emulators isL still copyrighted and can not be freely distributed. Why??  Porbably becauseH it still belongs to someone who still wants to control what is done withI his property.  Wether or not you think this is fair depends on which siderL of the coin you are on.  Unless, of course, you don't believe in intelectual property at all.   |>  G |> Sometimes I wonder if there are any sane people left on this planet.t  3 I agree, but probably not in the same light as you.5   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:13:58 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com; Subject: Re: Pathworks V5.0F ECO2+W2Kpatch W2K+SP2 problemseH Message-ID: <OF12635F70.5690772D-ON80256A61.00537BAA@qedi.quintiles.com>   And indeed it isn't. - it's reliable;
 - no BSOD; - few breakins;V - few crashes; - no distraught users;  , Not compatible with Windows at all.....  :-)   Aaron wrote: >>>CC The Minions of Gates, of course, would recommend that you ditch theZC OpenVMS solution and buy a brand new Windoze 2000 Server to replaceh* it.  "VMS isn't compatible!" they'd cry... <<<t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:33:07 -0400. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>* Subject: Re: Performance Monitoring on VMS+ Message-ID: <9fg2l1$rhk$1@bob.news.rcn.net>O  K I would normally refrain from commenting publicly on this, but I can assure K you that FORTEL product does NOT use only system services.  Certain metricsaH [HotFiles for example] simply cannot be obtained via the system services (documented or undocumented).-   DISCLAIMER: I work for FORTEL0   Ken Randell   2 PROSULLIVAN <prosullivan@aol.com> wrote in message4 news:20010601201657.11933.00000056@ng-fo1.aol.com...K > OK, Fortel looks OK, but gives a fairly limited set of metrics, I believeaH > because they only use system services to dig out their VMS performance info :(.D > Much better bet is PAWZ - over 250 VMS metrics, and works on otherL > unmentionable OS's - with VMS only the ECP collector is free as is the ECPL > analyzer. The web-based PAWZ has a better analyzer than Fortel and ECP and/ > (except for the knowledge base) CA Unicenter.i   ------------------------------  , Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:56:45 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>/ Subject: PIPE, was: Function to measure time...rJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106040951570.19388-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>    Hello !  " On 2 Jun 2001, Carl Perkins wrote: [...] K >+No matter how you slice it, this pretty much requires a command procedure I >+(or a really, really, long PIPE command that assumes very short times - J >+it's likely to have a problem if you cross a day boundary since you justI >+can't squeeze that much into a PIPE before you hit the DCL buffer limit   C  Have reported here that PIPE has 255 byte in command lenght limit,aC what is a hm... misunderstanding :], IMHO bug (but was not reportedr< anywhere in DOC, then the 1024 bytes limit may be expected).$  Have not (yet) check with VMS 7.3 !    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E =====================================================================nF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEk. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:01:30 +0100l  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comM Subject: Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in LondontH Message-ID: <OF6ADC732A.9A1F3B21-ON80256A61.004747D1@qedi.quintiles.com>  I Interestingly, the new version of Office is claimed to save more than oneeK hour per day in non-productive time and also has better crash recovery thano9 previous versions.  (Details in "Computing", 31-MAY-2001)   J Now, what would my boss say if I told him I was going to save one hour perH day or, more importantly, if I was to tell him I will waste one hour perA working day by using Microsoft Office software?  He'd probably go 
 ballistic.   Steve.   Paul Sture wrote:d >>> G I've decided to start logging any time lost due to Windows problems. If  moreF folks did that and recorded it on timesheets maybe we'd get somewhere. <<<=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:39:18 +0100,  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>M Subject: Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in Londong+ Message-ID: <VA.000003b6.2e4ff0b7@sture.ch>t  J In article <OF6ADC732A.9A1F3B21-ON80256A61.004747D1@qedi.quintiles.com>,   wrote:" > From: steven.reece@quintiles.com > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms0O > Subject: Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in Londonn' > Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:01:30 +0100e >  > K > Interestingly, the new version of Office is claimed to save more than one.M > hour per day in non-productive time and also has better crash recovery thana; > previous versions.  (Details in "Computing", 31-MAY-2001)a > L > Now, what would my boss say if I told him I was going to save one hour perJ > day or, more importantly, if I was to tell him I will waste one hour perC > working day by using Microsoft Office software?  He'd probably goc > ballistic. >   M And in my work environment there's a significant "noise factor" accompanying oK other folks' frustrations with Office/NT, distracting the complete team (8 WP people). I'll often grab a coffee to get away from it. On bad days I can easily & lose a good chunk of time due to that.  O Add in the repeated logins and reboots during our current network problems and  M I could probably chalk up hour, even though I'm only a light PC user (mainly o mail and reading Word memos).r   > Paul Sture wrote:  > >>> I > I've decided to start logging any time lost due to Windows problems. If  > moreH > folks did that and recorded it on timesheets maybe we'd get somewhere. > <<<q >    ___v
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:04:42 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>M Subject: Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in Londonn= Message-ID: <ukOS6.21555$zl5.6588171@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   - <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in messagesB news:OF6ADC732A.9A1F3B21-ON80256A61.004747D1@qedi.quintiles.com... >0K > Interestingly, the new version of Office is claimed to save more than one:H > hour per day in non-productive time and also has better crash recovery than; > previous versions.  (Details in "Computing", 31-MAY-2001)  >nL > Now, what would my boss say if I told him I was going to save one hour perJ > day or, more importantly, if I was to tell him I will waste one hour perC > working day by using Microsoft Office software?  He'd probably gos > ballistic.  G I think what you meant to say is that you are now wasting an hour a dayS& using existing versions of that stuff.  F Based on my experience with Windozeware (and especially the squatulentJ Windoze 98), I lost well over an hour a day using Microsoft warez. GettingJ rid of Windoze 98 was the best thing I ever did. I am in general satisfied with Windows 2000.  F In the Bad News Department, rumours of the death of Clippy the DancingL Paperclip are greatly exaggerated. The insipid and annoying icon lives on in; Orifice XP. But at least it will not be enabled by default.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 08:34:41 -0400a  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com4 Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester (cq) Railroad4 Message-ID: <C2256A61.0044F9B8.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   Fascinating.  1 However, I wonder if you've developed presbyopia. P The last time I checked - as I passed the city limits sign this morning - it was> still Providence and Worcester.  At least you were consistent.  , ..Or is the book one continuous misprint...?  K (As long as there's a "Worcester" somewhere in the world, the universe willd4 be guaranteed a steady supply of surplus h's :-) . )        ; Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam on 06/03/2001 09:39:00 AM6  3 Please respond to Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospamo   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.coml4 cc:    (bcc: Norm Raphael/Worcester/Neles-Jamesbury), Subject:  Providence and Worchester Railroad        E I went on an excursion yesterday to tour the Nautilus (first nuclear)dD submarine at Groton Connecticut.  The carrier was the Providence andF Worchester Railroad, a generally-freight railroad that happens to haveA tracks that go right past the submarine base and _in_between_ ther- Nautilus and the associated submarine museum.t  E Being quite interested in (as distinguished from knowledgeable about) H railroads, I bought a souvenir book about the Providence and Worchester.D The booklet told an impressive story about how the railroad had beenF dormant for over 75 years (renting their lines to the New Haven). WhenC the New York Central went under, the Providence and Worchester took D control of their lines again and actually started _buying_ strategic: lines from other railroads that were going down the tubes.  C And in the middle of this history was their computing history, fromyC PDP-11s to VAX11-785 through to Alpha 2100.   I suppose they are in C the same situation as the Indiana Toll Road in use of VMS, there ishB no need to grossly increase computer capacity since a commensurateG increase in bandwidth of the physical plant defies the laws of physics.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:45:45 GMTv( From: "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com>; Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphasc8 Message-ID: <JxKS6.71230$4x5.12609505@typhoon.kc.rr.com>  H I think the third party software vendors are the ones trying to kill VMSJ because they do not want to support their software on all the platforms onG the market.   They are forcing companies to move UNIX and Windows/NT by L giving higher priority to supporting their core business platforms.  We needL to push back by requiring third party company to provide open source code toE get our business and that will give us away to resolve software issueoL ourselves.   Once these third party companies see that we are patching theirL source code to run better on VMS then any other platform they have no choice but to support VMS.0   --     Thanks,c  
 Richard Bjerss Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B1A83EF.2EC9B7DE@videotron.ca... > "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:rG > > Regarding your last paragraph, I wonder if the fact that Alphas are A > > so powerful, actually hurts repeat sales among its customers.t > K > This is why low end entry systems are so important. You need to widen then' > market because it is a stable market.y >vE > If VMS has shown growth recently, I'd be willing to bet that it wase existingI > customers who had stopped upgrading anything VMS until they had a clearo signI > that Compaq wasn't about to kill VMS. Now that they have upgraded, they. will  > be stable for many more years. >eG > The ones that grow are the small companies, not the large establishedr multinationals.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 14:54:41 GMTu1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) ; Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas , Message-ID: <9fg7fh$2shr$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <JxKS6.71230$4x5.12609505@typhoon.kc.rr.com>,+  "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> writes:eK |> I think the third party software vendors are the ones trying to kill VMSeM |> because they do not want to support their software on all the platforms onnJ |> the market.   They are forcing companies to move UNIX and Windows/NT byF |> giving higher priority to supporting their core business platforms.  G While this is most likely a chicken/egg thing, my personal take is that D you probably have it backwards.  It is the decrease in VMS usage (orI possibly the perception of that decrease int he indistry) that is causingeJ many people to move away from supporting VMS with their products.  SupportH costs money and requires manpower.  You don't hire people to sit around D reading the paper in order to have them when that one customer needsE support.  You drop that customer, cut your losses and move on to the r! more profitable business centers.u  sN |>                                                                     We needO |> to push back by requiring third party company to provide open source code to H |> get our business and that will give us away to resolve software issue |> ourselves.  y  H But the problem is they don't want your business.  they don't see VMS asH being part of the business at all.  If you start throwing in ridiculous I requirements like "open source" they will fall down on the floor laughing 4 and when they stopp, they will tell you to buzz off.  M |>            Once these third party companies see that we are patching theiriO |> source code to run better on VMS then any other platform they have no choiced |> but to support VMS.  I Actually, they have a choice and many of them have already made it.  TheytG said goodbye to VMS.  It should be obvious by this point that VMS users L do not make up enough of the market for these third party package developers# to care about one way or the other.b  F The only answer is to get back enough of the market to make them care.; The above suggestions are hardly likely to accomplish that.    bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:22:15 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>? Subject: Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options , Message-ID: <9ffngo$1ju0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  a "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:87snhjup7d.fsf@prep.synonet.com...   F > Think about this. If you care about security, what would you prefer; > F > 1) Get a standard utillity, audit it, and use that to decompress the > kits.  > D > 2) Down load a file that *claims* to be a VMS supported format and > execute it blind.e  K Actually 2, if I thought about it, unless I get to audit the VMS code also.iA In the case of VMS patch kits, these are going to be part of your-E trusted system. It is illogical to assume that I am going to downloadr@ binary code from an FTP site and worry about running it but OTOH* perfectly happy to use it to patch my O/S.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:13:21 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>0 Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EDE@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]   > Christopher Smith wrote:  8 > > It's interesting to note that I can't think of much  > commercial softwared< > > that's not written in C/C++ these days.  Perhaps rather  > than porting a; > > modern application, one should consider looking for an t > older one with aC > > solid foundation and doing a port/enhancement at the same time.d  < > Is there a classification in what PL apps are implemented?B > Why not take a decent TurboPascal/Delphi app and port it to VMS?  L Well, no reason at all.  Unfortunately I'm not sure that there are many appsJ done in turbo pascal (Delphi) these days.  Probably fewer still that solve1 the problems for which VMS needs applications. :)   H On the other hand, if you can find one, it may be simple (relatively) toL make a "turbo pascal compatibility layer" on top of DEC Pascal, or somethingJ like that, which could give functions that were like Delphi functions, butH which used X11 for graphics, and native VMS interfaces for other things.I That would solve the "immediate need" problem.  A later version could, ofo  course, be more properly ported.  ? > > It's unfortunate that web browsers are probably too new to i > do this with.  A= > > web browser in ADA would be interesting.  As a matter of t > preference, I don'tt  > > Ada or DEC Pascal would be a very nice programming platform.  ( That's more or less what I was thinking.   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");t '       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:23:42 -0500n+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>s Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EDF@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]  ; > Very good idea, similar to a meritocraty: if you are well0A > educated and skillful you can do what you want, you can use theF= > PL you like and you have more political and social power. A7@ > newby has to program in a very safe environment, e.g. to write > applets in Java.  H That's putting it bluntly. :)  I'd like to make it clear, though, that IH don't advocate requiring people to use "safe" languages.  People can useH what they like, but I'd never recommend that a person new to programming start out with fortran. ;)  J What I'm really saying is that I think the world should "standardize" on aG safer language (for application programming), since a lot of people who L don't know much about programming will just go with the standard.  The trickJ is to make it safe, while not making it too restrictive for an experiencedJ programmer (who will inevitably get stuck using it some time or another).   H Applets in Java are an interesting proposition, and should be incrediblyC safe, however, until the state of Java VMs improves some (or nativemG compilers...), I'm not sure whether that's even as safe as it could be.    Regards,   Chrisu  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developers Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");i '    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:18:14 -0400r* From: Mark McGuire <mmcguire@maxitrol.com> Subject: UCX address change , Message-ID: <3B1BC2D6.27E2EDE5@maxitrol.com>  H Cannot figure out how to change an existing IP address for our UCX host.  @ Running TCP/IP services version 4.0 on Vax 4000-90 OpenVMS 5.5-2   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:45:47 -0400o( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: UCX address changet+ Message-ID: <3B1BC94B.10DCD2DC@bigfoot.com>c   One way is:  $ @SYS$STARTUP:UCX$CONFIG.  ( go to Core environment, then Interfaces.   HM   Mark McGuire wrote:n  J > Cannot figure out how to change an existing IP address for our UCX host. >tB > Running TCP/IP services version 4.0 on Vax 4000-90 OpenVMS 5.5-2   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 08:26:47 -0300e) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brt Subject: Veritas x OpenVMSL Message-ID: <OF9E1CDE30.714C1CA4-ON8325696F.006DAA48@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  " If you never tought about it . . .  ; http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6159839.html?tag=mn_hdt  < They are the company which can finish the OpenVMS Cluster...  8 They are known as the High Availability Company ! (????)   Where are  the Compaq ads ????   Regards=   FC   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 03:28:53 -0700H) From: vikram_opal@yahoo.com (Vikram Opal)H" Subject: VMS Securitys and logging; Message-ID: <a6859b8.0106040228.906744f@posting.google.com>=   Hallo fellow VMS lovers !=  H I need to get some sort of system logging  and monitoring in place for a couple of OpenVMS boxes. r   I need to mainly:u  O o look for disk/cpu/memory alerts/errors ( where's the best place to do this ?)g+ o look for missing/existing jobs in the que1 o inrussion detection ! o send alert mails fr the above !f  - Is this all possible by doing some DCL work ?d@ Can u guide me to some site/documentation that'll get me going ?   Many thanx ! Vikram   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 07:29:55 -0500f9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)i& Subject: Re: VMS Securitys and logging3 Message-ID: <aFgPM+EMBqxK@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  g In article <a6859b8.0106040228.906744f@posting.google.com>, vikram_opal@yahoo.com (Vikram Opal) writes:o > Hallo fellow VMS lovers !n > J > I need to get some sort of system logging  and monitoring in place for a > couple of OpenVMS boxes. - >  > I need to mainly:- > Q > o look for disk/cpu/memory alerts/errors ( where's the best place to do this ?)R   The error log.  - > o look for missing/existing jobs in the queg  = Some homebrew software (VMS does not know what you intended),A% Queue commands for existing software.i   > o inrussion detection     Breakin evasion (It's in there).  # > o send alert mails fr the above !R > / > Is this all possible by doing some DCL work ?DB > Can u guide me to some site/documentation that'll get me going ?  E It really sounds like you have not read the documentation set at all..; Read the Security manual and the System Management manuals.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:01:39 +01000  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?H Message-ID: <OF923D031E.D6AB5737-ON80256A61.00317900@qedi.quintiles.com>  , I think Redmond should be suitable.....  :-)   Christof Brass commented : >>>i: Besided the operation there is one additional problem with< nuclear power: where to store the high radiation left overs. <<</   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:00:15 +0100o0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?* Message-ID: <3B1B784F.2F7901E9@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:o > , > In article <3B17ABC0.C9C5173A@uk.sun.com>,3 > andrew harrison  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote:) > >  > >Jordan Henderson wrote: > >>, > >> In article <3B14F209.C0A7D90C@fsi.net>,5 > >> David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:r > >> >Simon Clubley wrote: > >> >>eS > >> >> On Tue, 29 May 2001 14:15:11 -0500, in article <3B13F53F.4C55D9C9@fsi.net>,-  > >> >> David J. Dachtera wrote:	 > >> >> >sP > >> >> >Yes, certain benefits have been gained by playing ball with the RedmomdM > >> >> >bullies. Of late, however, their monopolistic tactics have become sozO > >> >> >intolerable that even the Justice Department has seen fit to intervenes. > >> >> >(much too little and years too late).	 > >> >> >n > >> >>.4 > >> >> What is the current Microsoft v DOJ status ? > >> >>oT > >> >> I'm British and live in the UK, so I don't really know which way the currentS > >> >> US administration is likely to go with this. I do know that prior to the USoN > >> >> election, the feeling in this newsgroup was that a Bush administrationK > >> >> would be less likely to continue with the action against Microsoft.n > >> >G > >> >Experience with the "Dubbya" admin. tends to bear out the group'shJ > >> >initial take on the matter. He's a corporate lackey - period, end of > >> >statement. > >> > > >>G > >> I try to avoid political discussions in this forum.  I don't thinkt > >> people come here for this.n > >>G > >> I can't let this stand unchallenged, however, because Mr. DachteragG > >> seems to have appointed himself spokesman for the group and deignsN0 > >> to give out our initial take on the matter. > >>G > >> Insofar as George W. Bush may or may not be beholding to corporatesF > >> interests, I don't feel that the reality is fairly represented by > >> putting a period there. > >a6 > >Hmm, apart from the Tax cuts the other clear policy5 > >the Bush administration has commited themselves to(1 > >is to pull out of the Kyoto agreement that theh! > >Clinton administration signed.o > >, > A > The Clinton Administration didn't have authority to approve thes? > Kyoto Treaty, that authority rests with Congress, which neverd > approved this Treaty.e > A > Interesting how Japan and Australia have also pulled out of the?4 > Kyoto agreement, but you only hear about the US... > 2 > >The Bush adminstration did so on the basis of a4 > >reinterpretation of the scientific data on global4 > >warming that the overwhelming majority of climate, > >change experts have subsequently trashed. > >  > B > The overwhelming majority?  Oh really?  That's funny, as I don'tB > believe you'll find that a majority of climate change SCIENTISTSD > have actually confirmed that global warming is actually occurring,B > and if it is that it's caused by greenhouse gases, which is whatD > the Kyoto Treaty addresses.  It seems that there is as much weightC > given to solar cycles are as plausible an explanation for climatet$ > changes that may be occurring now. >   > Sorry but you are just parroting the Bush administration line.> There is an overwhelming majority view that global warming is : happening backed up by hard data. There is a minority view; expoused by yourself apparently and the Bush camp which hasi tried to deny this.   > In fact the majority of scientists are so concerned about the : Bush administrations denial tactics that 15 of the worlds 8 leading scientific bodies have taken the step of writing= an open letter to Bush with the full support of their membersi condeming his action.n    I > Now, there are a lot of climate change "experts" who are really nothingaG > but leftist politicians who are in favor of Kyoto.  This makes thingsiG > clear as to what Kyoto is all about, seeing as Kyoto did _nothing_ tonJ > reduce total emission of global greenhouse gasses, it just redistributedI > it from the currently developed world to the 2nd and 3rd world nations.  >   G Rubbish, the developed world produces over 90% of the worlds greenhouserE gasses, with the US being by far the largest contributor. Even under oC the limitted terms agreed at Kyoto the US would still be by far in  E a way the largest producer of greenhouse gasses on a per capita basis  in 20 years time.a  C > Kyoto was all about redistributing wealth from the IndustrializediH > Western nations to the rest of the world.  Clinton who was in the backF > pocket of the Chinese, who would have suffered no restrictions underF > Kyoto, may have been for it, while Bush is against it.  I'll let you > draw your own conclustions...r >   > Again total rubbish, Kyoto was about people paying the actual : cost of production rather than the cost of production not " including the environmental costs.  A The US and the rest of the developed world is prosperous in part fF because its industries and consumers do not pay for the environmental > costs of production. Bush does not want the US to have to pay ( these costs and has butted out of Kyoto.  9 And the US will have to pay eventually and is paying now.a  : Increased insurance premiums due to "freak" climate events; and Power cuts in California being just two manifestations  ' of a total lack of policy in this area.o  9 And in the long term, massive expenditure on sea defencesi: in Florida and other states, plus a crash course in green 9 house gas emmisions reduction which will cost a lot more l9 in 10 years time when the US will be forced to impliment  / the changes than they would if you started now.e   Regardsc Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architectn   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 08:55:29 -05004- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <hJ6NfbED3axM@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  \ In article <3B197167.32130257@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > L > However, Bill Clinton signs this treaty with other nations as the officialO > representative of the nation he represents. If he signs the treaty, it is hislM > responsability to ensure that his nation writes/approves the legislation todP > enact that treaty domestically. If that fails, for whatever reason, the USA isF > seen as renegging on a promise by its leader to abide by the treaty.  A It's no international secret that the President does not have theu@ authority to ratify a treaty.  Historically, this has worked outA alright.  Everyone knows signing the treaty is only a step in thetA process.  IRRC Russia, and probably many other counties, has also D worked this way, although historically Russia and the USSR were more- likley to do what their leaders told them to.   O > If there is nobody authorize to negotiate international treaties on behalf ofcA > the USA, then your constitution has a very serious flaw in it.    D Lots of people, in fact, have the authority to negotiate.  What theyF don't have is the authority to ratify.  Why should we trust one person with so much power?  o  B Look at Panama, which trusted two Frenchmen to negotiate the canal4 treaty, took them generations to get the thing back.  F Who has the authority in Britain?  What would Parliment do if a treaty+ was negotiated which Parliment didn't like?o  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationn= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupaE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingv   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 12:54:46 GMTb1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fg0em$2p8k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  \ In article <3B197167.32130257@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> .Q |> Very few people *need* an SUV.  How many kilometres of road in the USA requirel |> a 4wd vehicle ? |> e  H In the winter, around here, all of them.  It doesn't matter how deep theJ snow gets or wether or not the state has decided to plow the roads or waitD for the storm to stop, I still have to be at work at the usual time.   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 08:59:00 -0500h- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <b$SoAcO7h7on@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3B197167.32130257@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > P > Very few people *need* an SUV.  How many kilometres of road in the USA require > a 4wd vehicle ?k  F I don't know, but I do believe they're all located in Boston, New York City, and Washington DC.  ? I've taken an ordinary sedan in most of the wilderness off-roadi& situations you see SUVs advertized in.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationu= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group0E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying-   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 13:08:45 GMTp1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fg18t$2p8k$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  * In article <3B1B784F.2F7901E9@uk.sun.com>,3  andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:e |>    |> and Power cuts in California   8 well, there went yoiur credibility right out the window.  F There is no shortage of power in California.  There is only a shortageF in the power the grid is willing to deliver without being paid for it.F California's power problem is totally economic. Or do you believe thatH electric power somehow is restriced by arbitrary legislative boundries??G After all, none of the states that border California are having rolling K blackouts.  And the Las Vegas Strip, probably one of the biggest consummersnK of electricity in the world, is as bright as ever and a mere 270 miles fromw darkened Los Angeles.n   bill h   -- dJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:34:53 +0100e  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?H Message-ID: <OF16C8D90E.0FB07BC2-ON80256A61.004A5783@qedi.quintiles.com>  D Which I presume is the reason that Alistair Cooke in his Letter fromH America a few weeks ago was relating the fact that some of the blackoutsI have been around mid-day.  This would be one of the best times to try and1I force the issue, disrupting businesses as well as people at home watchingT= TV or expecting to be woken up by their electric alarm clock.0   Steve.   Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>O* In article <3B1B784F.2F7901E9@uk.sun.com>,3  andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:i |> |> and Power cuts in California0  8 well, there went yoiur credibility right out the window.  F There is no shortage of power in California.  There is only a shortageF in the power the grid is willing to deliver without being paid for it./ California's power problem is totally economic.d <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:50:44 -0300a) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bri2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <OFEA57B573.68FEDE34-ON03256A61.004B885C@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  # But I dont undestand your DOJ ($$$)a  F Intelectual property  ====>>>>   Napster was condemned to spread music without pay G                                                              copyright.i (!!!!)  H Intelectual property  ====>>>> Microsoft  will be condemned because they	 dont open J                                                            their software.3 Of course there are competition questtions, etc....e     Regardse   FC        B bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) em 04/06/2001 10:08:45  = Favor responder a bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)i             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como      2 Assunto: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?    * In article <3B1B784F.2F7901E9@uk.sun.com>,3  andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:0 |> |> and Power cuts in Californiak  8 well, there went yoiur credibility right out the window.  F There is no shortage of power in California.  There is only a shortageF in the power the grid is willing to deliver without being paid for it.F California's power problem is totally economic. Or do you believe thatH electric power somehow is restriced by arbitrary legislative boundries??G After all, none of the states that border California are having rolling4K blackouts.  And the Las Vegas Strip, probably one of the biggest consummers K of electricity in the world, is as bright as ever and a mere 270 miles fromf darkened Los Angeles.    bill   --J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:02:49 GMTo8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?2 Message-ID: <dyMS6.984$fi2.26172@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 In article <hJ6NfbED3axM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  ..C >Look at Panama, which trusted two Frenchmen to negotiate the canal05 >treaty, took them generations to get the thing back.  ..  ' Well, since we are already off-topic...s  ? Look at Columbia, which got the really short end of that stick!e  ? [Panama was part of Columbia until it gained independence in a dA US suported and possibly sponsored revolution.  The new nation of A Panama gave the US much more favorable terms for the "Canal Zone"b% than were being offered by Columbia.]s   -- iK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAvH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:12:13 -0500g1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1B973D.DB506889@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:. > [snip]P > Very few people *need* an SUV.  How many kilometres of road in the USA require > a 4wd vehicle ?   F This is more of Dachtera's "idiotic" ranting (Hi, Bill!); so, now is a' good time to tune out (fair warning)...   C Like the M$ debate, the issue is not who *NEEDS* an SUV. The issue,(E IMHO, is that people DON'T WANT little rice-burning wimp-mobiles thatrH can't even get out of their own way, especially at a corner where you'reE trying to turn and can't see around the {SUV,VAN,pick-up truck, etc.}  beside you.e  E The design of the highway infrastructure predates the first synthetichH fuel shortage, back in the early '70s. Highway entrance ramps were builtC for cars that can achieve a certain acceleration rate. "Small, fuellE efficient cars" do not possess this quality. This is, in part (again,eH IMHO), a major contributor to urban traffic congestion: the inability ofE vehicles to merge safely into traffic, exacerbated by drivers who mayeE lack the nerve this can require in small cars, further exacerbated byeH ramp signals which effectively cut the length of the "acceleration lane"F in half, making it impossible for "small, fuel efficient cars", not toF mention heavily loaded trucks, to merge safely into traffic flowing at> speed, resulting in collisions and/or traffic slowdowns and/orF exacerbating congestion. Rather a "domino effect" of "good intentions"# that have paved the "road to hell".o  E Apparently, to borrow an expression from John M., the motoring publicsE has "voted with its pocketbook" regarding their preference for large, B somewhat more "brawny", substantial vehicles as compared to light,E dangerously underpowered, thin-shelled vehicles that can become death G traps even in accidents that were survivable just twenty(20) years ago.s  	 <soapbox>.F The question of rollovers in SUVs has more to do with the drivers thanG with the vehicles themselves. Even tire defects leave clues that can be E detected by dilligent motorists (who are lagely the exception and notvF the rule). In flying, the FARs state that the final responsibility forF the safe conduct of any flight rests solely with the pilot in command.H The motor vehicle codes in most states include wording which, while moreF verbose, essentially makes a similar statement regarding the operationG of a motor vehicle. In today's society, of course, everything is always A "the other guy's" fault: the other driver, the folks who made the H vehicle and/or its parts, etc. It seems to me that people cannot or willG not (again, IMO, since I hear people coming to a boil out there) assume F responsibility for their own actions, preferring instead to seek legal3 recourse, placing the blame at someone else's feet.h  C The current fuel "shortage" can be traced directly to the petroleum F industry's failure to maintain refining capacity that can keep up withD the current demand for product. I'm sure the oil companies knew fullB well what they were doing when they sat on their hands instead of @ building refineries. As we see from the Wall Street Casino, thisH "gamble" is reaping wind-fall profits for them. Again, the "shortage" isF entirely synthetic, but without the appearance of being intentional. AE different strategy from thirty(30) or so years ago, but none the less 
 effective.
 </soapbox>   -- s David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:46:26 -0500o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1B9F42.E49A0A0B@fsi.net>s   andrew harrison wrote: >  > Jordan Henderson wrote:g > >r. > > In article <3B17ABC0.C9C5173A@uk.sun.com>,5 > > andrew harrison  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote:h
 > > [snip]D > > The overwhelming majority?  Oh really?  That's funny, as I don'tD > > believe you'll find that a majority of climate change SCIENTISTSF > > have actually confirmed that global warming is actually occurring,D > > and if it is that it's caused by greenhouse gases, which is whatF > > the Kyoto Treaty addresses.  It seems that there is as much weightE > > given to solar cycles are as plausible an explanation for climateo& > > changes that may be occurring now. > >l > @ > Sorry but you are just parroting the Bush administration line.? > There is an overwhelming majority view that global warming iss< > happening backed up by hard data. There is a minority view= > expoused by yourself apparently and the Bush camp which hasc > tried to deny this.a > ? > In fact the majority of scientists are so concerned about thef; > Bush administrations denial tactics that 15 of the worldsu: > leading scientific bodies have taken the step of writing? > an open letter to Bush with the full support of their memberso > condeming his action.u  F This smacks of the the M$ Vs. the alternatives debate: how many wrongsF does it take to make a right? ...and if enough people say that the sky3 is purple, does that cause the sky to change color?   tK > > Now, there are a lot of climate change "experts" who are really nothingrI > > but leftist politicians who are in favor of Kyoto.  This makes thingsoI > > clear as to what Kyoto is all about, seeing as Kyoto did _nothing_ to L > > reduce total emission of global greenhouse gasses, it just redistributedK > > it from the currently developed world to the 2nd and 3rd world nations.  > >  > I > Rubbish, the developed world produces over 90% of the worlds greenhouseiF > gasses, with the US being by far the largest contributor. Even underD > the limitted terms agreed at Kyoto the US would still be by far inG > a way the largest producer of greenhouse gasses on a per capita basisl > in 20 years time.w  @ I've yet to see a satisfactory answer to the question of whetherH so-called "greenhouse" gasses are a cause or an effect. That is, does anF elevation in the presence of such gasses lead to a rise in atmosphericD heat absorption and/or retention, or does an over-abundance of solarD heating result in an acceleration of the processes which elevate theE levels of those gasses in the atmosphere, or both (a self-propagating D "loop" beyond the control or influence of any single factor, or evenA multiple factors that might debatably be influenced by industrialo
 development)?i  H Regardless of whether greenhouse gasses are a cause or an effect, I dareG say that volcanism, a process well beyond the control of any life form,oH contributes more to the levels of such gasses on a world-wide scale than4 any local concentrations due to industrial activity.  w > [snip]; > And the US will have to pay eventually and is paying now.f > < > Increased insurance premiums due to "freak" climate events  D To borrow your expression, "rubbish". The so-called evidence of thisG relationship is speculative, at best. I can see the arguments, however. ? The atmospheric cleansing effects of storm activity, especiallyrC lightning, are well documented and it may well be that that "dirty"JH atmospheric conditions are more conducive to storm activity. Further, itE is possible that the intensity of storms has a direct relationship toeE the "dirtiness" of the atmosphere. Conclusive evidence is a bit dear,pA however, given that scientific measurements of the aforementionednD conditions (storm activity, atmospheric conditions) has an extremelyH short history, as compared to that of the planet. We've not yet seen andA recorded enough cycles of natural effects vs. man-made effects tooC determine which has the greater influence, or any influence at all.a   > and Power cuts in California  G Yet another example of wanton capitalism digging its own grave. This ispC purely an economic issue at it's base. Development and operation oftG power generation facilities represents a significant expense. Why spendoH money when you can keep it yourself and/or spread it out to your croniesH (investors), and let others worry about the consequences? Never mind theH future of your business, or your income stream - just take the money and run NOW!   -- o David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:54:04 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406011054050001@user-2ivec74.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3B1AC973.8E860948@infopuls.com>, Christof Brassc <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:   O@ > As an interesting side note: Edward Yourdon reported in a talk@ > he gave 1995 in Europe that a nuclear power station in the USAB > was controlled by an application based on an Excel spread sheet.B > Unfortunately we didn't go into detail so I don't know what part, > of the power plant was controlled by that.  + Maybe the shift schedule for the operators?t  G This is absurd on its face.  There haven't been any new plants licencedoF here during the life of Excel.  Any software involved in controlling aC plant is part of the licensing ordeal.  Changing the software wouldv/ invalidate the operating license for the plant.g  G We used to have an organization called the National Bureau of Standards I (NBS).  They had a research reactor at one of their labs, called the "NBS-H Reactor", IIRC.  NBS changed its name to National Institute of StandardsH and Technology (NIST).  They did NOT change the name of their reactor toA the "NIST Reactor", since that would have invalidated the plant's3G license.  If changing the plant's name causes too much regulatory pain, C changing the software that runs the reactor is out of the question.e  < > Besided the operation there is one additional problem with> > nuclear power: where to store the high radiation left overs.  G Hans Bethe (and many others) have addressed this.  Store the high-leveliE stuff for a few years so it can cool down substantially.  Mix it with-I sand, melt the mixture into glass, encase the chunks in several layers ofoJ non-radioactive glass, and bury it in a nice dry place like the site beingJ prepared in Nevada. This sounds expensive, and it is, but the total volumeH of high-level waste that needs to be dealt with is fairly small.  In theJ neighborhood of a few truckloads per year per reactor.  A coal-fired powerB plant generates ash (which is quite nasty stuff) by the trainload.  G Reactor waste is highly radioactive, but it does not stay thay way verynE long.  A few years makes a lot of difference.  We hear than the stuffrH stays radioactive for tens of thousands of years.  That's true, but it'sF mild, and not a particular health hazard, long before that.  The exactH decay rate depends on the history of the material, but in general highly" radioactive means short half-life.  9 (And I keep saying I won't touch this thread any more...)e   -- b Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 14:58:01 GMTt2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fg7lp$k36@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  b In article <3b17df8d$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes: >>paybacks will come.c >tC >They're already coming, but they're directed against the customer. L >Microsoft has taken a particularly usurious stance with regard to licensingL >and, in October, is going to _force_ people to upgrade to Windows XP and at3 >a much higher price that upgrades currently run.     D Lincoln Specter covered this (in satire form, of course) in a recent. "gigglebytes".  He referred to this method as   .   "EXTended ORdinary restiTION" => EXTORTION.    Dead on.   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech i   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 15:02:54 GMTu1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)T2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fg7uu$2shr$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ' In article <3B1B973D.DB506889@fsi.net>,s4  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |> sH |> The design of the highway infrastructure predates the first syntheticK |> fuel shortage, back in the early '70s. Highway entrance ramps were builthF |> for cars that can achieve a certain acceleration rate. "Small, fuel0 |> efficient cars" do not possess this quality.   G Well, I wouldn't go that far.  My second car gets twice the gas mileage,I of my Jeep and can out accelerate anytime, standing start or on the roll.u  > And no, it's not a rice burner.  It's a Triumph Spitfire.  :-)   bill   -- 4J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   g   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 15:15:41 GMTo2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fg8mt$k36@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  \ In article <3B19293A.CDB7FC99@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:N >If Microsoft splits up in multiple companies, I fully expect Compaq to remainK >loyal to those companies as if they were one unit. Lets not kid ourselves, B >Bill Gates may split the companies up in such a way to please theU >authoritioes, but those companies will remain one single logical entity in practice.   J No, they won't.  When the US government broke up ATT the pieces really didI become separate companies - the Feds made damn sure of it.  At least theyiF did until fairly recently when some bright boy decided to let the babyF bells start buying each other, and now we're about 3 mergers away fromJ putting ATT back together again. Except strangely enough, the fraction now% called "ATT" won't be merged back in!n  + Wandering way off topic from comp.os.vms...,  F That break up was also instructive in another way.  It was supposed toD eventually allow competition in local phone markets.  But that neverJ happened.  I own some SBC stock (descended from Pacific Telesis stock) andH they're continually whining about being unable to get clearance to offerH long distance service in one market or another.  And that's because theyH never open up the local markets to competition, and the regulators won'tJ let them have one without the other.  Ie, they can't keep the monopoly and go after long distance too.   F It's also interesting that the most competitive thing to come along inI phone service didn't have anything to do with the break up.  Cellular letnK companies easily move into each others service areas without having to hookoF into existing lines (a move which was perpetually blocked by the localH monopoly), and so there's often several cellular services available in aC city of any significant size, but never more than one local servicem  provider for any given address.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:31:24 -0500C1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1BA9CC.726DA74C@fsi.net>o  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > % > But I dont undestand your DOJ ($$$)e > H > Intelectual property  ====>>>>   Napster was condemned to spread music
 > without pay I >                                                              copyright.r > (!!!!) > J > Intelectual property  ====>>>> Microsoft  will be condemned because they > dont openwL >                                                            their software.5 > Of course there are competition questtions, etc....n  C Indeed, competition is the question more than intellectual property @ rights. It would be entirely possible for M$ to "play nice" with> would-be competitors and still protect their interests. M$ areD collectively (again, IMHO - don't want to be accused of speaking forH folks I don't represent) obsessed with their own domination in the world4 market. To them, protecting this is most important.   H The OpenSource concept would leave them, figuratively at least, standing@ "naked" and unprotected before the world. (Gad! What a sickeningE thought! Hope you're not reading this at lunch! *CHOKE* *GAG* *HORK*)o  F To see the kludged-up nonsense in their code might indeed be humorous,= leaving the Giant exposed as the laughing stock of the world.t  / Again, and as always, IMHO - YMMV considerably.    -- e David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 15:29:38 GMTr1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)s2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fg9h2$2tju$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  L In article <rdeininger-0406011054050001@user-2ivec74.dialup.mindspring.com>,5  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:e |>J |> Reactor waste is highly radioactive, but it does not stay thay way very	 |> long. r  B Whereas coal ash stays carcinogenic forever.  I can't believe thatD people actually still use coal to heat their homes and the idea thatB people want more plants burning this rubbish is truly frightening.   bill   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 16:58:50 GMT,1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fgeoa$2vp6$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ' In article <3B1B9F42.E49A0A0B@fsi.net>,a4  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |> yK |> Regardless of whether greenhouse gasses are a cause or an effect, I darehJ |> say that volcanism, a process well beyond the control of any life form,K |> contributes more to the levels of such gasses on a world-wide scale thany7 |> any local concentrations due to industrial activity.'  A This debate always brings a smile to my face by reminding me of aeB Nova program I saw many moons ago.  The topic was terra-forming.  ? They interviewed some genius from NASA at various points in thefB program. In one of the earlier points he went on about how we wereB rapidly making the earth uninhabitable without even trying by justG being careless.  Much later in the porgram the subject of terra-forming E Mars was brought up.  This same wag went on at great length about hownA arrogant it was to think that we mere mortals could significantlywB change the atmosphere of a whole planet.  Does anyone else see theC irony here??  He claims we are already doing by accident that whichcA he also claims we couldn't do if we devoted all our effort to it.a  = If man destroys the planet and himself, it will not be a slows> agonizing death caused by changing climate it will be a sudden, catastrophic act caused by an enormous bomb.   bill   -- pJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   <   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:36:03 -0500?+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>e2 Subject: RE: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EE0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Paul Repacholi [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]t  C > I have found that it is in fact NOT unusual. The VMS bit, not theo > other bit ;)  G > Show a group VMS, and about half will sit up and take notice. Half ofn0 > them will, if given a chance, follow up on it.  G > Thee problem is, they seldom get that chance in a usefull way, and iftE > they do, then they are still wedded to others by apps they need, orm > think they need.  D > I know of near NO VMS in teaching, comp sci, or system programming% > courses. I was there, but has gone.   J It must be a testament to Compaq's marketing, then, and DEC's before, that6 they can fail to sell a product which "sells itself."    Regards,   Chrisi  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerh Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");b ':   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.308 ************************