1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 05 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 309       Contents:- Re: (OT) Salutation was RE: disk benchmarking # RE: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging  Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/233 Re: alphastation 200 4/2337 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? 7 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?  Re: Backup to CD? H Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)H Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail) Re: CD-RW on a VMS system. Re: Charon-VAX hobbyist 9 Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager  Re: hszterm software Re: hszterm software Re: hszterm software> Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?2 Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.6 Re: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.6 Re: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.6 Re: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.! Re: Performance Monitoring on VMS ! Re: Performance Monitoring on VMS D Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in London2 Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas RAID-0 or Logical Volumes 6 Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options6 Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options% Re: Some more bits looking for a home % Re: Some more bits looking for a home % Re: Some more bits looking for a home % Re: Some more bits looking for a home  srm and unexpected crd0 Tape compression factor (was: Re: Backup to CD?) telnet to alpha help !!  Re: telnet to alpha help !!  Re: telnet to alpha help !!  RE: telnet to alpha help !!  Re: telnet to alpha help !!  Re: telnet to alpha help !!  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  Re: UCX address change Re: Veritas x OpenVMS  Re: VMS Musings  Re: VMS Musings  Re: VMS Musings  Re: VMS Musings ' Re: WANTED!  Qbus SCSI drive controller ' Re: WANTED!  Qbus SCSI drive controller  Re: What does READ/NEW do ? , Re: Will OpenVMS 6.2 support 18 & 36GB disks) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 18:53:05 CDT = From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.021386.killspam.015b (Wayne Sewell) 6 Subject: Re: (OT) Salutation was RE: disk benchmarking. Message-ID: <Z$Qkxmm9Fo52@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  i In article <CJvOzj$XY5QZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) writes: 7 > In article <01K4DQ3IAUMQ0011S9@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, ) > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  >>I >> When I came to Australia (so called classless -- ha!), everyone called F >> everyone else Fred.  I am still uncomfortable at times, much as you >> have described. > 8 > Well Fred, Isn't it a bit confusing at times also? :-) >     O Sounds like that Monty Python skit where everybody in the room is named Bruce.  H Then the new guy shows up with a non-Bruce first name and somebody says,9 "That's too confusing.  Is it okay if we call you Bruce?"        --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== K Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!! O    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:57:13 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> , Subject: RE: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D965A@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Fwiw,   G I agree 100% with John. The issue is usually not whether it is VMS, but H rather the lack of standards in the way auto-negotiation works with many6 older and different switch and NIC vendor's equipment.  J Best advice for a mixed and/or an environment with older network equipmentJ having these issues is usually "work with the network support resources inI your oraganization to determine if the NICs should be set to 100MB, FD at 0 the same time as the switch is set to 100Mb FD."   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----D From: malmberg@encompasserve.org [mailto:malmberg@encompasserve.org] Sent: June 4, 2001 11:24 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000    * In article <3B1966F7.4AD9383A@virgin.net>,+ Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.network> writes:  >  > John Santos wrote: > B > However, I don't think it negotiates full/half duplex correctly. > F >> Under heavy load, DECnet logs lots of "alignment" and "frame check"I >> errors to OPCOM.  Either setting the ew?0_mode to FastHD or explicitly 2 >> changing the switch to full-duplex solves this. >> > J > I've given up trying to make 100FD work reliably to most of our switches (from G > VMS). Even if I force modes at both ends *sometimes* it still doesn't  work. I H > have found that 100 Half Duplex works on every single occasion. If you haveH > very heavy two way network traffic then this would not be an option of course.   ? Do you have any half duplex segments on your LAN?  If you do, a = network adapter set to full duplex can send more data to that = segment than the hosts on it can handle, resulting in dropped  packets and retransmissions.  K > Every other piece of hardware/software seems to reliably autonegotiate so  why K > not VMS. The same cards in some of our NT servers autonegotiate correctly  so. > it's a software problem as far as I can see.  E I personally have seen autonegotiaton fail on on non-OpenVMS systems, D and have been given advice from several Networking people who seldomE if ever work on OpenVMS systems to disable autonegotiation where ever 	 possible.   G From a networking class that I had just over a year ago, the instructor C explained that the reason was a lack of a standard way of doing the @ negotiation.  Newer equipment uses better algorithms than older.  B If all of your networking equipment was from the same vendor, than( autonegotiation has a chance of working.  C If you are a multiple vendor shop, then it just a matter of luck if ! autonegotiation will work at all.   G When the firmware of a network card is set to autonegotiation mode, the A host operating system is totally uninvolved with the negotiation.   H Just because two links use the same model of hub and lan cards, does not, mean they are at the same firmware revision.     -John  Personal Opinion Only  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:57:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging, Message-ID: <3B1BDA29.C69C5BAE@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: L > If I was King, er, Capellas For a Day, my first edict would be to find theK > corporate graphics person responsible for the gaffe. Once said person was J > found, I would sentence him or her to a day of education on the products > that Compaq sells.  K Probably done by an outside firm. I doubt that Compaq has Macintoshes to do   serious artwork inhouse. :-) :-)  N Hey, this is no worse than that Digital printed advertising that showed colour graphics on a VT320 !    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 14:59:06 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging3 Message-ID: <nig4lvAmkMHS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3B1BDA29.C69C5BAE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: M >> If I was King, er, Capellas For a Day, my first edict would be to find the L >> corporate graphics person responsible for the gaffe. Once said person wasK >> found, I would sentence him or her to a day of education on the products  >> that Compaq sells.  > M > Probably done by an outside firm. I doubt that Compaq has Macintoshes to do " > serious artwork inhouse. :-) :-)  @ I met someone last year who worked there and used a Macintosh to create artwork.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:07:05 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging= Message-ID: <t%QS6.21578$zl5.6620653@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:nig4lvAmkMHS@eisner.encompasserve.org... 7 > In article <3B1BDA29.C69C5BAE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei & <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: K > >> If I was King, er, Capellas For a Day, my first edict would be to find  the J > >> corporate graphics person responsible for the gaffe. Once said person was D > >> found, I would sentence him or her to a day of education on the products > >> that Compaq sells.  > > L > > Probably done by an outside firm. I doubt that Compaq has Macintoshes to do$ > > serious artwork inhouse. :-) :-) > B > I met someone last year who worked there and used a Macintosh to > create artwork.   H That's not really surprising. Macs get used a lot for that. However, theD content creator (he or she who picked out the graphic) should be theI recipient of an inspirational counselling session (not a sacking, just an  education).   K On the other hand, the ultimate sign-off authority should make an immediate  contribution to OPEX reduction.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 16:07:55 -0500 + From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging3 Message-ID: <vMyhWoL4IjXp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <j_CS6.15475$QP6.6317215@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > 3 > "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message ; > news:l8sR6.357031$fs3.57329928@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com... H >> Sorta proves that Compaq marketing is still not sure exactly what theL >> letters VMS mean.  (Very Mean System mabye?)  That basic misunderstandingA >> makes it difficult to successfully mount a marketing campaign.  >> > L > FYI, I sent a copy of the article from THE INQUIRER to Marcomm VP Kay HartN > at Compaq. Not surprisingly, I did not receive a response. Through a varietyK > of sources, I learned that VMS Marketing made a conscious decision to say K > nothing about the gaffe. After all, turning such a marketing gaffe into a ? > joke would be, well, umm, er, NOT THE WAY COMPAQ DOES THINGS.  > M > Hence the V73 packaging will be a Source of Ridicule for some time to come.  >  > Why am I not surprised?  >   @ If you really want to put a spin on it, you could infer that theA picture means that the cat is out of the bag.  A snippet of bogus 6 press release explaining the picture "gaff" follows...   -begin release snippet  A In a surprise announcement today, Compaq stated that VMS has been ; ported to the Sparc and UltraSparc architecture so that any > customers that bought into the Solaris myth of scalability and= stability, could buy an OS that truly had those qualities for < their existing hardware.   Continuing with the compatibility@ standards that have long been the trademark of VMS, all programsA that run on the Sparc and UltraSparc chips, and Solaris 2.6, 7 or / 8, now, will run unchanged with VMS on Sparc.     > In a uncharacteristic move, Compaq is giving away VMS to those= Sun hardware users that convert.  Included in the "Welcome to < Stability" kit is a full "magic GEM" porting kit, which will> allow Sparc and UltraSparc binaries to be run unchanged on the< full range of Compaq Alpha platforms running VMS, as well.    ? As one unnamed Compaq representative mentioned, "Magic GEM will = be an additional asset for the customer when they get used to A stability and scalability that VMS on Sparc offers, but would now > like performance as well."  "It's funny", continued the CompaqB representative, "but we had not planned to annouce this at all, in@ accordance with our standard marketing policy.  We had mocked up> those materials as example of what they should look like if weA had planned to annouce this.  When those pictures were mistakenly > released to distribution with the V7.3 materials, because of a? virus checking error in our interoffice Exchange server, we had  to say something."   -end release  > [ed. note: Seems now that VMS is truly open, the Open has been removed from the name]   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 21:14:46 GMT $ From: jj_usenet@nspam.tridentusa.comD Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging* Message-ID: <9fgto6$ppg$1@news.netmar.com>  5 In article <3B1BDA29.C69C5BAE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei & <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > M > Probably done by an outside firm. I doubt that Compaq has Macintoshes to do " > serious artwork inhouse. :-) :-)  E Take a look at some recent PDFs issued by Compaq.  If you look at the E Document Info (or Document Summary for Acrobat Reader 5) you might be K surprised at how many have "Acrobat Distiller for Macintosh" in there, e.g. H the PDF that I just looked at for the new Comapq Evo series from the CPNK web site "Evo product brochure" - 14v30501axnen.pdf.  Also the "AlphaServer & Comparison Chart" - 147b0401ausen.pdf.    O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----TM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsaI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postswL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 17:23:13 -0500g9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)iD Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging3 Message-ID: <73AX9SzyJWqW@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  a In article <vMyhWoL4IjXp@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:w  B > If you really want to put a spin on it, you could infer that theC > picture means that the cat is out of the bag.  A snippet of bogusM8 > press release explaining the picture "gaff" follows... >  > -begin release snippet > C > In a surprise announcement today, Compaq stated that VMS has beenn= > ported to the Sparc and UltraSparc architecture so that any2@ > customers that bought into the Solaris myth of scalability and? > stability, could buy an OS that truly had those qualities forl > their existing hardware.  C Ok, Marty, let's see you wordsmith your way around the cache paritya problems :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:32:01 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging= Message-ID: <l7TS6.21624$zl5.6666588@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>s  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:73AX9SzyJWqW@eisner.encompasserve.org...    >iE > Ok, Marty, let's see you wordsmith your way around the cache paritye > problems :-)  K Heck, that's easy. ZINC WHISKERS are the problem. A True Fact, this I know,i) for a purloined Sun document tells me so!   J I have an MS-Word formatted copy of said document. It is a true classic in( spin doctorery and outright obfuscation.  @ Of course, the authors have plenty of experience in that regard.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:38:36 -0700s! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comoD Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media PackagingD Message-ID: <OF96029989.40A39DB3-ON88256A61.0076D247@foundation.com>  G He already did. In classic marketing fashion he only claimed the OS wask1 reliable, without claiming th hardware was too...    Shanep          J Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) on 06/04/2001 03:23:13 PM  E Please respond to Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   E Subject:  Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media PackagingM    K In article <vMyhWoL4IjXp@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@encompasserve.orgu (Marty Kuhrt) writes:   B > If you really want to put a spin on it, you could infer that theC > picture means that the cat is out of the bag.  A snippet of bogusc8 > press release explaining the picture "gaff" follows... >u > -begin release snippet >oC > In a surprise announcement today, Compaq stated that VMS has beenO= > ported to the Sparc and UltraSparc architecture so that anyt@ > customers that bought into the Solaris myth of scalability and? > stability, could buy an OS that truly had those qualities fort > their existing hardware.  C Ok, Marty, let's see you wordsmith your way around the cache parityu problems :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:11:05 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging, Message-ID: <3B1C0767.45C81565@videotron.ca>  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > I > He already did. In classic marketing fashion he only claimed the OS wase3 > reliable, without claiming th hardware was too...o  M But VMS engineers would Shirley implement a memory driver that deals with theM! parity problem on Sun hardware...C   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:17:17 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>OD Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging' Message-ID: <3B1C412D.6B4070AA@fsi.net>D   JF Mezei wrote:O > $ > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > >CK > > He already did. In classic marketing fashion he only claimed the OS was 5 > > reliable, without claiming th hardware was too...r > O > But VMS engineers would Shirley implement a memory driver that deals with theC# > parity problem on Sun hardware...    Stop calling me Shirley... --   David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.D   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 11:21:01 -0700e" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233s= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0106041021.56b00a57@posting.google.com>   s "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> wrote in message news:<k6LS6.109121$I5.25552283@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>... K > That's odd -- I seem to recall the 200 being full flash; I thought it wash< > the AS 100 (AS 200 4/100?) that was half flash, wasn't it? >   B Dunno. The 200 4/233 that I'm running as a hobbyist system doesn't< seem to be a full flash system. Perhaps I'm overlooking some4 fuctionality. Perhaps Hoff can add something here...  E > In this case, the user indicated that he WAS using SRM (to wit, the=H > reference to the >>> prompt), and that doing a "show dev" indicated noM > devices available.  That sounds more like unsupported hardware.  The remedypK > very likely would be to upgrade to the latest firmware (or to ensure thatn+ > the hardware in the system is supported).b  B The post seemed to indicate that the box was currently running NT.B This requires the ARC console. Assuming the box is half flash (and running NT)...  E Two weeks ago when I installed Tru64 over top of NT on a AS800 I seemaD to remember doing a "show config" (or similar) from the ARC console.D While the configuration was being displayed it seemed to "drop" into4 the SRM console temporarily before returning to ARC.  C Not something I do every day and with out actually sitting there inc2 front of the system in question difficult to tell.   Joeu   > @ >  http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readme.html >  > Aaront > --@ > Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html@ > Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org/K > "vi troff ps su fsck grep rm du - - - And they call this a 'language'???"p > @ > cstranslations <cstranslations@email.msn.com> wrote in message% > news:uS2hO1K7AHA.257@cpmsnbbsa09...s- > > When you post please do so in plain text.  > > K > > Windows NT requires the ARC console. OpenVMS and Tru64 both require the6 >  SRMN > > console. The AS 200 is a "half flash" system; you can have the SRM console3 > > loaded or the ARC console loaded, but not both.l > :@ > :pM > > You'll also need a recent copy of the firmware CD (or you'll need to down:& > > load it from the Compaq web site). > >a > >e7 > > "EL BORICUA" <boriqua210@home.com> wrote in messageg1 > > news:006501c0ec95$ade93d00$cb01a8c0@pc1ghz...  > > Hi,, > >nK > > I have an alphastation running windows NT and would like to run OpenVMSD >  butJ > > for some reason I cannot change the boot mode to OpenVMS. Every time a >  halt0I > > the system and I do show device at the boot prompt >>> don't show anysG > > devices available.Do I need to change something withing the consolet
 >  setting > > in order to install VMS? > >c > > thanks in advance... > > Dave > >  > >' > >o > >  > >a   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:27:24 -0500 (CDT)y From: sms@antinode.org# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233o) Message-ID: <01060414272411@antinode.org>e  " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)  D > Dunno. The 200 4/233 that I'm running as a hobbyist system doesn't> > seem to be a full flash system. Perhaps I'm overlooking some6 > fuctionality. Perhaps Hoff can add something here...  H    If you open the box and look at the board, you should be able to findC a pair of quad-whatever-they're-called sockets for the EEPROMs.  MysF machines have one filled and one empty.  No doubt there's at least oneG machine out there with both chips installed.  It's not very mysterious.e  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)hC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)aG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)m9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:44:48 GMTh= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)j# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233t0 Message-ID: <009FD095.C0143512@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <d56d1c2d.0106041021.56b00a57@posting.google.com>, cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) writes:t >"Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> wrote in message news:<k6LS6.109121$I5.25552283@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>...L >> That's odd -- I seem to recall the 200 being full flash; I thought it was= >> the AS 100 (AS 200 4/100?) that was half flash, wasn't it?4 >> 0 > C >Dunno. The 200 4/233 that I'm running as a hobbyist system doesn'ti= >seem to be a full flash system. Perhaps I'm overlooking some15 >fuctionality. Perhaps Hoff can add something here...e   No, just a 28F020. ;)C   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMp            hO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:02:48 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233 3 Message-ID: <YHSS6.1015$fi2.26886@news.cpqcorp.net>t  B In article <01060414272411@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:# :From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)9 : E :> Dunno. The 200 4/233 that I'm running as a hobbyist system doesn'tj? :> seem to be a full flash system. Perhaps I'm overlooking some 7 :> fuctionality. Perhaps Hoff can add something here...n :tI :   If you open the box and look at the board, you should be able to findcA :a pair of quad-whatever-they're-called sockets for the EEPROMs. e  K   Correct.  AFAIK, some of these boxes were shipped as full-flash systems, sG   and some were not.  Opening the box and checking for empty sockets istK   likely one of the easiest ways to tell if you have room for both SRM and  K   ARC/AlphaBIOS, or if you have to load and use, well, SRM.  (I would hope  J   that this is no longer a particular issue with the demise of Windows NT L   on Alpha, but I also don't know off-hand if Linux requires ARC/AlphaBIOS,    or if it can use SRM.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:13:22 -0700m! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com # Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233ID Message-ID: <OFF687165B.429A5133-ON88256A61.00746F8B@foundation.com>  > I have an AS200 4/166 at home, and it's definitely half flash.   Shane           @ Alphaman <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> on 06/04/2001 05:24:48 AM  8 Please respond to Alphaman <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como cc:h  $ Subject:  Re: alphastation 200 4/233    I That's odd -- I seem to recall the 200 being full flash; I thought it wasa: the AS 100 (AS 200 4/100?) that was half flash, wasn't it?  C In this case, the user indicated that he WAS using SRM (to wit, theaF reference to the >>> prompt), and that doing a "show dev" indicated noK devices available.  That sounds more like unsupported hardware.  The remedy I very likely would be to upgrade to the latest firmware (or to ensure that ) the hardware in the system is supported).-  >  http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readme.html   Aaronn --> Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html> Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org/I "vi troff ps su fsck grep rm du - - - And they call this a 'language'???"d  > cstranslations <cstranslations@email.msn.com> wrote in message# news:uS2hO1K7AHA.257@cpmsnbbsa09...o+ > When you post please do so in plain text.. >2I > Windows NT requires the ARC console. OpenVMS and Tru64 both require thes SRMnD > console. The AS 200 is a "half flash" system; you can have the SRM console 1 > loaded or the ARC console loaded, but not both.c :s :lK > You'll also need a recent copy of the firmware CD (or you'll need to downr$ > load it from the Compaq web site). >  >C5 > "EL BORICUA" <boriqua210@home.com> wrote in messageT/ > news:006501c0ec95$ade93d00$cb01a8c0@pc1ghz...S > Hi,i >mI > I have an alphastation running windows NT and would like to run OpenVMSn butuH > for some reason I cannot change the boot mode to OpenVMS. Every time a haltG > the system and I do show device at the boot prompt >>> don't show anyeE > devices available.Do I need to change something withing the consoler settingt > in order to install VMS? >  > thanks in advance... > Dave >t >c >i >u >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:19:58 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comt# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233 D Message-ID: <OF9A33AC59.773D97FB-ON88256A61.00750018@foundation.com>  I There must be two versions. I know for certain mine's half flash, I spentaK long enough trying to convert it from the Micro$hit console to the VMS one.h   Shanei          4 steven.reece@quintiles.com on 06/04/2001 05:52:30 AM  , Please respond to steven.reece@quintiles.com   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml cc:a  $ Subject:  Re: alphastation 200 4/233      F The AlphaStation 200 is a full flash system, at least in its 200 4/166 guise. Steve.   Aaron Sakovich wrote:a >>>eI That's odd -- I seem to recall the 200 being full flash; I thought it wasa: the AS 100 (AS 200 4/100?) that was half flash, wasn't it? <<<r   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:22:45 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233 ) Message-ID: <01060416224542@antinode.org>r  2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  H > [...] but I also don't know off-hand if Linux requires ARC/AlphaBIOS,  >   or if it can use SRM.)  H    Before the availability of the V2 Hobbyist kit, I got RedHat V5.1 (orB near that) running on mine using the SRM console.  At that time, I= believe that either one could be made to work, but I have note investigated later versions.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)hC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work):G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)m9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work):   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:57:52 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)o# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233e0 Message-ID: <009FD0A8.56D791A9@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <YHSS6.1015$fi2.26886@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:C >In article <01060414272411@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes: $ >:From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) >:F >:> Dunno. The 200 4/233 that I'm running as a hobbyist system doesn't@ >:> seem to be a full flash system. Perhaps I'm overlooking some8 >:> fuctionality. Perhaps Hoff can add something here... >:J >:   If you open the box and look at the board, you should be able to findB >:a pair of quad-whatever-they're-called sockets for the EEPROMs.  >dL >  Correct.  AFAIK, some of these boxes were shipped as full-flash systems, H >  and some were not.  Opening the box and checking for empty sockets isL >  likely one of the easiest ways to tell if you have room for both SRM and L >  ARC/AlphaBIOS, or if you have to load and use, well, SRM.  (I would hope K >  that this is no longer a particular issue with the demise of Windows NT  M >  on Alpha, but I also don't know off-hand if Linux requires ARC/AlphaBIOS, : >  or if it can use SRM.)k  K For those looking, look for the Flash ROM chip with the designation 28F020.gJ If you have a half-flash Alpha, there shoud be an empty socket of the sameK size in the general vicinity of the existing 28F020.  The part you need is  > only a few bucks and had been available from JDR MicroDevices.  g --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             aO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 15:26:12 CDT = From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.021386.killspam.015b (Wayne Sewell)d# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233r. Message-ID: <zJ39GlNbfrD9@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  n In article <k6LS6.109121$I5.25552283@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>, "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> writes:K > That's odd -- I seem to recall the 200 being full flash; I thought it waso< > the AS 100 (AS 200 4/100?) that was half flash, wasn't it? >   H I have seen AS 200 models both ways.  To me, it appears to be related toK manufacture date rather than 100 vs 166 vs 233.  My oldest alphastation wasmH full flashed and could easily be dual booted.  I switched back and forthJ between vms and nt with nothing more than a console switch command until II decided I didn't want to bother with nt any more and reused that disk for, something worthwhile.u  M The more recent AS 200 units appear to be half flashed.  I have three or fourc1 of these, all 4/233 models like my original unit.o     -- bO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)2O =============================================================================== K Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!! O    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!2   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:18:33 -06001 From: "BPollard@micron.com" <bpollard@micron.com>c@ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?0 Message-ID: <9fgcc3$auc$1@admin-srv3.micron.com>  C FYI- Compaq has gracioucly offered their assistance in my companies H implentation of a product called Attunity Connect that will likely solve. many of our Sybase connectivity issues on VMS.   They responded:sE Attunity Connect needs to be installed on the OpenVMS client machine,eK noCTlib software is required in any way shape or form. The only requirementbE we have for our product on any platform, including OpenVMS is TCP/IP. J Attunity Connect needs to also be installed on the AIX box running Sybase.J Connect on OpenVMS would communicate directly with Connect on the AIX box. The versionaF of Connect on the AIX box would use local native drivers to connect to Sybase.-   -bpollard.micron.com  L BPollard@micron.com wrote in message <9fg73l$aau$1@admin-srv3.micron.com>...G >My company still uses VMS platforms to run our mfg programs and accessaI >Sybase on Unix.  We even use Omni to access RMS files.  Sybase is endingeH >support for Open Client and Omni-Connect Jan 31, 2003.  Are we the only onesI >raising a stink about continued support for VMS by sybase?  There latest L >version is 10.0.4 and they recently stated in my tech support case " VMS isI >a dying and unsupported version as far as Sybase is concerned".  I wouldaL >like to know if anyone else is interesting in working with us to convincing4 >Sybase to continue support for VMS into the future. >. >bpollard@micron.com >e >g >D >3   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 16:47:20 -0500e+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) @ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?3 Message-ID: <QpMzfNp3ipWv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <9fg73l$aau$1@admin-srv3.micron.com>, "BPollard@micron.com" <bpollard@micron.com> writes:H > My company still uses VMS platforms to run our mfg programs and accessJ > Sybase on Unix.  We even use Omni to access RMS files.  Sybase is endingN > support for Open Client and Omni-Connect Jan 31, 2003.  Are we the only onesJ > raising a stink about continued support for VMS by sybase?  There latestM > version is 10.0.4 and they recently stated in my tech support case " VMS iscJ > a dying and unsupported version as far as Sybase is concerned".  I wouldM > like to know if anyone else is interesting in working with us to convincingm5 > Sybase to continue support for VMS into the future.o   Two points:e  ? 1 - You don't need the Sybase parts on the VMS side any longer.p@     You can get third-party interconnect products that just need?     an IP stack to talk to their product running on the machine      that has the database.  @ 2 - You should migrate all your databases from Sybase as soon asA     possible.  They are not long for this world, unless they are n     bought by someone else.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:16:21 +0100y- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>n Subject: Re: Backup to CD?) Message-ID: <3B1BA645.8C6293D0@bbc.co.uk>e   Robert Deininger wrote:    >h >dL > Well, you probably can't do it my going through the normal magtape driver,6 > so these function codes are the wrong place to look. > ( > How about this vicinity in the manual: >tN > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6136/6136pro_028.html#chan_ss_sec >hH > Figure out from the tape drive manual what SCSI command(s) you need toJ > send, put them in the right format to make GKDRIVER happy, and send themH > to the drive with a QIO.  Either you crash your system, hang your SCSI+ > bus, or get back some useful information.l >hI > Example 8-1 looks pretty close to what we need.  At the moment, I don'tlL > have a tape drive, a drive manual, or a VMS system at hand, so I can't try > anything.y  I I'm missing the manual for the TZ88, tried the Quick Specs, not adequate.u Must be on the web somewhere.o  --/6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk.  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofh MedAS or the BBC.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 03:49:09 GMT , From: "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com>Q Subject: Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)l< Message-ID: <VEYS6.83030$y_3.22913439@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  M In message <3B186FD9.6E6FC888@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>h wrote: > Bill Ames wrote: > > K > > I'm want to email an 80 character wide invoice file which resides on my'J > > OpenVMS system to an Microsoft Outlook user.  I get the list file justF > > fine, but when I actually print it wraps the text smaller than 80 K > > characters. I've played with Outlook, sytles and such with no luck. Is n3 > > anyone else out there doing this kind of stuff?t > & > It wraps the text _smaller_ than 80? > L We have the same problem.  We mail straight text reports (well, they do haveM form feeds) out to over 100 remote users each morning.  Probably 90% of these K end up in Outlook.  If they try to print the file straight from Outlook, itcK applies margins all around and *seems* to ignore the form feeds we put in. -M One solution for them is to save the message or attachment, load it into WordmN and set all margins to 0".  There is still a problem with text in tables being/ out of alignment because of proportional fonts.(  L My preferred solution, if they can get their system people to show them how,J is to set up a network printer at dos level (lpt1) and have them print the file directly after saving it. -- .9 Jay E. Morris, Epidemiological Laboratory, Brooks AFB, TXu@ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:41:32 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-Q Subject: Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)e, Message-ID: <3B1C62F9.524EDCB1@videotron.ca>   "Jay E. Morris" wrote:N > We have the same problem.  We mail straight text reports (well, they do haveO > form feeds) out to over 100 remote users each morning.  Probably 90% of theses > end up in Outlook.  M Isn't there a way to configure outlook to display and pring using a monospacey0 font and not to reformat/flow text in a window ?  4 If Teamlinks had that option, surely OUtlook would ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:29:55 GMT6= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-):# Subject: Re: CD-RW on a VMS system.e0 Message-ID: <009FD08B.49B98858@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <9fgfhu$fea$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> writes:I >1). In all cases I've tried the Windows and Unix settings on the Plextorn >before I've posted. >m0 >2). It's a VAXstation 4000-60 with OpenVMS 6.2. > C >3). When I said busted websites in the original posting it was theaE >ftp://v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de/... website that I had in mind. AnymJ >connection gets rejected either at work or at home there for I cannot get) >hold of the 1.10a07 version of CDrecord.t >s: >I've only been able to get 1.8a9 from the Tmesis website.  B OK.  I had to go looking back quite a ways to your first posting.   G Try connecting the CD-RW via GKDRIVER.  After all, you won't be able to & mount and read from the bugger anyway.  A $ MCR SYSMAN IO CONNECT GKA200:/NOADAPTER/DRIVER=SYS$GKDRIVER.EXE@  ' Then, use CDrecord to check the device:@   $ CDRECORD -DEV=4,2,0  -PRCAP E                 ^ ^ ^-- sub-lun (shouldn't be one unless you have the E                 | |              same brain-damaged Yamaha drive thatrF                 | |              I posses... still, it should be zero)D                 | `---- SCSI id on the bus (2 in your first posting)H                 `------ 0:DKA 1:DKB 2:DKC 3:DKD 4:GKA 5:GKB 6:GKC 7:GKD     1 Forward the output -- if you get any -- to c.o.v.   6 Leave the jumper in the UNIX (512 byte block) setting.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             OO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:36:34 +0100- From: "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk>C  Subject: Re: Charon-VAX hobbyist? Message-ID: <NjSS6.15076$RD3.318717@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>-  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:QhJMOcdoFG37@eisner.encompasserve.org...- >-C >  I didn't see any announcement, but I looked and found Charon-VAX ! >  hobbyist came back last month.n  8 I cannot see a link on their page for the download yet..% any idea when it'll become available?1       -larne-    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 01:34:45 GMT $ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>B Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager) Message-ID: <3B1C37AA.603FBEF7@wi.rr.com>   D Apartment 4?  Apartment 4?  So you're the one who keeps playing thatH loud music late at night!!!  Turn it down, sonny!  Some of us are trying	 to sleep!.   -scott ;^) ;^) ;^)   Rich Bjers wrote:0  K > Thanks for your response because a lot of the other news group would havei, > gotten mad at me for this type of message. >f > -- >n	 > Thanks,n >i > Richard Bjersi > 3284 Rocker Driveu
 > Apartment 4t > Cincinnati, Ohio 45239-4149o > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com > Home: (513) 245-9604 > Cellular: (513) 315-3547 >l8 > <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageH > news:OF9E9E55EA.8B8378CC-ON03256A61.003C1E3F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br...N > > I believe you can post this kind of message.  We are a small family  :-))) > >m > > Regardso > >- > > FC > >i > >t > >m > >s= > > "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> em 01/06/2001 21:31:59y > > 8 > > Favor responder a "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> > >  > >  > >c > >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr > >t > >< > >nB > > Assunto: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager > >9 > > K > > Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.R > > But.K > > I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Managerf > andyK > > I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of the  > jobhM > > websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area or a . > > website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. > > -- > >  > >U > > Thanks,0 > >. > > Richard Bjersg > > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com > >a > >c > >. > >  > >  > >  > >e > >l > >a > >r   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 14:06:15 -0500a+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: hszterm softwarem3 Message-ID: <OHT2bRA8GhDY@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  [ In article <3B1BB75A.47C67994@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o > Rob Young wrote: >>  ^ >> In article <3B1BA176.BD665A5E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >>   >> >K >> > I see mention of a Command Scripter GUI requiring SWCC, but no mentiontA >> > of a DCL-based interface or any other related prerequisites.8 >> >K >> > So, the question remains: how does one "talk to" HSG's from an OpenVMShK >> > batch job? Is the HSDSA-SCRIPT approach still effective? (Be specific,e >> > cite examples.) >> > >> t) >>         It supports CLI, read the SPD.2 >> M& >>                                 Rob > 
 > *CAVEAT* > ! > Follow-up to my previous reply:c > J > According to the User's Guide, page 1-2 (Acrobat Reader pg. 14), CommandE > Scripter only supports Fibre Channel (HSG60,-80) and SCSI (HSZ70 or 
 > better). > D > HSJ users are still left out in the cold unless they can live with > HSDSA-SCRIPT.1 > , > Sorry - my enthusiasm was a bit premature. >   ; 	Not premature.  Two different products.  You've basically  3 	identified both products and which goes with what.t   				Rob3   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:17:06 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t Subject: Re: hszterm softwares' Message-ID: <3B1BDEB2.49463B36@fsi.net>M   Rob Young wrote: > ] > In article <3B1BB75A.47C67994@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:M > > Rob Young wrote: > >>` > >> In article <3B1BA176.BD665A5E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >> > >> >M > >> > I see mention of a Command Scripter GUI requiring SWCC, but no mentionaC > >> > of a DCL-based interface or any other related prerequisites.k > >> >M > >> > So, the question remains: how does one "talk to" HSG's from an OpenVMS1M > >> > batch job? Is the HSDSA-SCRIPT approach still effective? (Be specific,i > >> > cite examples.) > >> > > >>+ > >>         It supports CLI, read the SPD.  > >>( > >>                                 Rob > >r > > *CAVEAT* > >j# > > Follow-up to my previous reply:s > >DL > > According to the User's Guide, page 1-2 (Acrobat Reader pg. 14), CommandG > > Scripter only supports Fibre Channel (HSG60,-80) and SCSI (HSZ70 or  > > better). > >2F > > HSJ users are still left out in the cold unless they can live with > > HSDSA-SCRIPT.  > >.. > > Sorry - my enthusiasm was a bit premature. > >d > C >         Not premature.  Two different products.  You've basically < >         identified both products and which goes with what.  = Well, sort of. SANworks Command Scripter essentially replaceseD HSZTERM$SCSIPAD, at least in function. HSDSA-SCRIPT makes up for the# lack of of batch support in HSCPAD.o  > Both, however, serve the purpose of communicating with storage= controllers in an automatable fashion from within the OpenVMSl? environment without intervention of or interaction with a thirdR	 platform.A  0 SANworks Command Scripter is supported payware.   & HSDSA-SCRIPT is unsupported freeware.    --   David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.b   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:35:50 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>) Subject: Re: hszterm software.4 Message-ID: <7bTS6.244675$Z2.2781223@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B1BDEB2.49463B36@fsi.net...h >...1 > SANworks Command Scripter is supported payware.R >...  C Any idea on the cost? We looked at this a few months ago but we did  not get any costs yet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:14:29 +0100o- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>eG Subject: Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?a) Message-ID: <3B1B7BA5.92D8822B@bbc.co.uk>s   "antonio.carlini" wrote:   > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >eA > > $       backup/verify/select=([xxx.yyy.]*.*;*) mka500:z.sav -p- > >         disk$user1:[xxx.zzz.yyy]*.*;*/LOGe5 > > %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification passn > >wF > > ?, no files have been selected, why rewind the tape and reread the > > saveset? >i/ > Obviously it needs to re-read all none of then+ > files that it has restored to ensure thats% > all none of them have no errors :-)e >r/ > Seriously, it's easy to see how someone mighta- > forget to skip the verification phase if it= > is redundant.= >=) > In fact, given the sometimes convolutedl+ > code in there, I'd leave it alone and put * > up with a little lack of optimisation to, > avoid de-stabilising it. Hit ^C if you are1 > around - you don't care  if you are not around.t >s   :-)   D Actually, it occurred to me that if my suggestion was implememted it, might break some ancient .COM somewhere :-).    --a6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukn  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofm MedAS or the BBC.y   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 12:49:08 -0700$* From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham); Subject: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.l< Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0106041149.58683b26@posting.google.com>   I just lost a VMS disk.cE I'm going to try and use an old Sun or Novell SCSI disk to replace ittF Is there a way to perform a low level format, so that VMS will see the drive?E Is this neccessary or can I just set the SCSI ID and then perform then% Init and then backup/noinit/image..../   regards, vmendham@altavista.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:48:02 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h? Subject: Re: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.e, Message-ID: <3B1BF3F7.55C1EF57@videotron.ca>   Vic Mendham wrote:G > I'm going to try and use an old Sun or Novell SCSI disk to replace itnH > Is there a way to perform a low level format, so that VMS will see the > drive?G > Is this neccessary or can I just set the SCSI ID and then perform the ' > Init and then backup/noinit/image....e  N It depends on what machine you are plugging the drive in. But yes, most VAX orI alpha boxes have the ability to initiate a low level format, but from thet6 console prompt, (before you boot), not the VMS prompt.    M For instance, on a vaxstation 3100, >>> TEST 75 initiates a low level format.w# (you are prompted for SCSI id etc).   L Is it necessary ? No. If the hardware at the boot prompt sees the drive, youN should be able to just issue an INIT command at the VMS prompt. However, it isL always best to do a low level format when you put a drive in a new computyer with a new SCSI controller.?   ------------------------------   Date: 04 Jun 2001 23:30:32 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com>d? Subject: Re: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.e0 Message-ID: <3b1c1a50$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  ) You should be able to just use the drive.s  G There is no specific SCSI format issue that I am aware of for most SCSIJL controllers.  We have used disks of various varieties on various controllers! on OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha.    --
 Bill Pedersen  CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learning"
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  7 "Vic Mendham" <vmendham@altavista.com> wrote in message 6 news:8b51ed8.0106041149.58683b26@posting.google.com... > I just lost a VMS disk.sG > I'm going to try and use an old Sun or Novell SCSI disk to replace iteH > Is there a way to perform a low level format, so that VMS will see the > drive?G > Is this neccessary or can I just set the SCSI ID and then perform theg' > Init and then backup/noinit/image....s > 
 > regards, > vmendham@altavista.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 02:04:34 GMTo  From: thompson-nospam@new.rr.com? Subject: Re: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.,4 Message-ID: <S6XS6.538$eK3.175441@typhoon.kc.rr.com>  F You can run into issues with devices not formatted to 512 byte blocks.F AS/400's use 520 byte blocks, and I seem to recall that PC's sometimes  have 1024 or 2048 byte blocks.    F RZDISK from the freeware CD's will allow you to reformat most drives.   , Bill Pedersen <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> wrote:+ : You should be able to just use the drive.o  I : There is no specific SCSI format issue that I am aware of for most SCSIaN : controllers.  We have used disks of various varieties on various controllers# : on OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha.n   snip9 : "Vic Mendham" <vmendham@altavista.com> wrote in messagea8 : news:8b51ed8.0106041149.58683b26@posting.google.com... :> I just lost a VMS disk.H :> I'm going to try and use an old Sun or Novell SCSI disk to replace itI :> Is there a way to perform a low level format, so that VMS will see the'	 :> drive?hH :> Is this neccessary or can I just set the SCSI ID and then perform the( :> Init and then backup/noinit/image.... :> :> regards,t :> vmendham@altavista.com        --     ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 12:45:25 -0700i; From: jnchambl@texaschildrenshospital.org (Jesse Chambless)y* Subject: Re: Performance Monitoring on VMS< Message-ID: <d92c63cc.0106041145.695d43a@posting.google.com>   OK Ken,0  < Does the product still monitor and give these data for DSM??  a "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> wrote in message news:<9fg2l1$rhk$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...0M > I would normally refrain from commenting publicly on this, but I can assure,M > you that FORTEL product does NOT use only system services.  Certain metrics J > [HotFiles for example] simply cannot be obtained via the system services > (documented or undocumented).O >  > DISCLAIMER: I work for FORTELt > 
 > Ken Randelln > 4 > PROSULLIVAN <prosullivan@aol.com> wrote in message6 > news:20010601201657.11933.00000056@ng-fo1.aol.com...M > > OK, Fortel looks OK, but gives a fairly limited set of metrics, I believetJ > > because they only use system services to dig out their VMS performance >  info :(.rF > > Much better bet is PAWZ - over 250 VMS metrics, and works on otherN > > unmentionable OS's - with VMS only the ECP collector is free as is the ECPN > > analyzer. The web-based PAWZ has a better analyzer than Fortel and ECP and1 > > (except for the knowledge base) CA Unicenter.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 01:36:20 GMTa$ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>* Subject: Re: Performance Monitoring on VMS) Message-ID: <3B1C380A.8266059D@wi.rr.com>e  R Yes, there is a collector for DSM, a collector for ISM and a collector for Cache'.  
 -Scott :^)   Jesse Chambless wrote:  	 > OK Ken,t >e> > Does the product still monitor and give these data for DSM?? >cc > "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> wrote in message news:<9fg2l1$rhk$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...nO > > I would normally refrain from commenting publicly on this, but I can assure-O > > you that FORTEL product does NOT use only system services.  Certain metricsiL > > [HotFiles for example] simply cannot be obtained via the system services! > > (documented or undocumented).1 > >.! > > DISCLAIMER: I work for FORTELo > >  > > Ken Randell  > >a6 > > PROSULLIVAN <prosullivan@aol.com> wrote in message8 > > news:20010601201657.11933.00000056@ng-fo1.aol.com...O > > > OK, Fortel looks OK, but gives a fairly limited set of metrics, I believeiL > > > because they only use system services to dig out their VMS performance
 > >  info :(. H > > > Much better bet is PAWZ - over 250 VMS metrics, and works on otherP > > > unmentionable OS's - with VMS only the ECP collector is free as is the ECPP > > > analyzer. The web-based PAWZ has a better analyzer than Fortel and ECP and3 > > > (except for the knowledge base) CA Unicenter.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 01:01:06 +0200G* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)M Subject: Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in Londonr* Message-ID: <3b1c1332$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  s In article <ehPP6.3835$QP6.3492256@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:nG >"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in messagec. >news:gzax4q43mN++@eisner.encompasserve.org...I >> In article <MbwP6.4580$zl5.1763095@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.t- >Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:hD >> > If you didn't make it to Jury's Hotel in central London for the
 >much-vauntedWM >> > VMS Technical Update Days, a tasteful selection of presentations at saidr5 >> > venue can be downloaded from the following site.R >>( >> Where is that tasteful presentation ? >>C >> I looked at the page cited and found only Microsoft PowerPoint !  >-7 >It's the content, not the container, that is tasteful.  > A >Maybe it's just me, but I find that the overwhelming majority of M >presentations are crafted in PPT these days. To the best of my knowledge the G >only alternative posting method is an Adobe PDF distillation of a PPT.-  ; Nope. A simple HTML file is the (most portable) way to go !r   -- u< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 03:49:09 GMT2, From: "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com>; Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphasg< Message-ID: <VEYS6.83031$y_3.22913303@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  N In message <BoifUCLaBJDJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:  > Hi Larry,  > G > I was surprised to see that the P&W carried passengers; I thought it aE > was all freight.  There are some tracks parallelling the Blackstone 0 > River in Uxbridge, a few miles away from here. > E > Regarding your last paragraph, I wonder if the fact that Alphas areMG > so powerful, actually hurts repeat sales among its customers.  In ournG > own instance, the 8400's we have are more than enough computing powercI > for the next five years or so; we may have to upgrade the I/O subsystemtI > before then, but it is also just as likely that the application will go ' > away or get ported to a UNIX machine.B > J > Does this situation play itself out with a majority of COMPAQ's customer > base?v > H Probably so. I'm running a cluster of an 1000 and a 2100 ( not A models)J w/RA3000 for an epidemiological laboratory, about 20-25 instruments, 50-60L local users, around 200 remote users.  Even with what I'm planning on addingJ (up to 20 more instruments and 200 remote users over the next 1-2 years) IK doubt that I'll be able to push though an upgrade because it's handling the N current load, and probably the additional,  just fine.  When we get the noticeH that they're coming off the supported list, then we'll probably upgrade.  P Hmmmm.   Wonder if I've got a Compaq letter around so I can scan the letterhead.   -- B5 Jay E. Morris Epsilon 3 Productions www.epsilon3.com X@ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  , Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 05:24:51 +0200 (CEST)- From: Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> " Subject: RAID-0 or Logical VolumesK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106050522070.10614-100000@firewall.wes.mee.com>    Hi!   A I have installed 3 HDDs at each 2 GB in my AlphaServer 400 4/233.a, Is it possible to use all 3 as system disks?E My thought would be to create a software RAID-0 set in OpenVMS, but I J don't know whether it is possible (and if yes, if it's already possible at install time).I The same on a VAXstation 4000/60. I have 2x 2GB SCSI in it, and I want too do the same.     Many thanks in advance,c 	Freddyz   -- fN Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv  J ==========================================================================D  Frederik Meerwaldt  ICQ: 83045387  Homepage: http://www.freddym.orgC  Bavaria/Germany              OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much moreII  Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOS>   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 18:01 PDT) From: rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)e? Subject: Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression optionsD. Message-ID: <4JUN200118012391@eql.caltech.edu>  - In article <9ffngo$1ju0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>,\I/  "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes... c : "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:87snhjup7d.fsf@prep.synonet.com...oG :> Think about this. If you care about security, what would you prefer;o :>G :> 1) Get a standard utillity, audit it, and use that to decompress the  :> kits. :>E :> 2) Down load a file that *claims* to be a VMS supported format and  :> execute it blind. :sM : Actually 2, if I thought about it, unless I get to audit the VMS code also.bC : In the case of VMS patch kits, these are going to be part of your	G : trusted system. It is illogical to assume that I am going to download0B : binary code from an FTP site and worry about running it but OTOH, : perfectly happy to use it to patch my O/S.  @      I don't agree with your [il]logic.  It takes more expertiseA to construct a fake patch kit that installs backdoors or whatevert@ then it does to make a simple trojan horse which mascarades as a? self-unpacking executable.  Both are risks, but one is a bigger = risk than the other since it could trivially do so much harm.q  @      This is somewhat to the vmsinstal vs pcsi philosophy issue,; where one allows you to examine kitinstal.com and the othero@ started out as just a black box.  The latter eventually obtained= the ability to extract contents without installing them.  I'dc< suggest that self-extracting files need the same capability:A some trusted utility already on the system that is able to do the @ extraction without executing the kit file directly.  That shouldA be really straightforward to implement, and still provide ease ofRA unpacking for those trusting enough--or foolish enough, dependingS< on your degree of paranoia--to continue to unpack via direct> execution.  Switching compression methods in new kits would be@ transparent to anyone using the self-extraction method but would3 require a new external unpacker for paranoid types.   2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 03:58:10 GMTc- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)a? Subject: Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression optionst0 Message-ID: <3b1c585b.59747532@news.process.com>  C On 4 Jun 2001 18:01 PDT, rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin) wrote:a  3 >Switching compression methods in new kits would beeA >transparent to anyone using the self-extraction method but wouldm4 >require a new external unpacker for paranoid types. >nC Agreed, and UNZIP will let you do this, albeit with a warning as itt$ skips over the self-extracting stub:  " $ copy hg_exe:unzipsfx.exe []y.exe $ append z.zip y.exe $ run ymG UnZipSFX 5.42 of 14 January 2001, by Info-ZIP (Zip-Bugs@lists.wku.edu). 4 replace x.x? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: n $ unzip/lis y.exe # Archive:  SCRATCH$:[SCRATCH]Y.EXE;1tP warning [SCRATCH$:[SCRATCH]Y.EXE;1]:  76800 extra bytes at beginning or within z ipfile    (attempting to process anyway)    Length     Date   Time    Name   --------    ----   ----    ----       991  06-04-01 22:29   x.xm#  --------                   -------$"       991                   1 file $    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/i9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 20:32:24 -0500t! From: Howes <howes001@tc.umn.edu> . Subject: Re: Some more bits looking for a home* Message-ID: <3B1C36A8.85A7719E@tc.umn.edu>  G Adrian - I know this is a few weeks ago, but I have been looking for anl: ethernet interface for a PRO 350 I have restored recently.  I Is the DEPCA still available ? I assume this will fit the PRO's funky bus  . . .a  I I am in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA for reference to quote shipping costs[9 if you still have it and wish to sell it to a yank!   ;-)    regards,     Ron Howes    Adrian Lumsden wrote:e  G > Sorry to keep posting these things in dribs and drabs. I keep findingt
 > more boxen.a >lH > These available for free; location Leicester, UK; you collect or cover > shipping.o >r" > 2   DEPCA PRO Ethernet interface/ > 1   DE203-PA ISA Ethernet Interface, 10Base2,v6 >     includes manual and driver floppy. Boxed as new. >g > For the PRO fans:- >u' > 1   Microfiche set for PRO 300 Series 7 >     o   Technical Manual Volume 2, Options, 2 fiches,v# >         EP-PC300-V2-001, Oct 1995a= >     o   Technical Manual, Volume 1, Kernel System, 3 fiches-" >         EP-PC300-V1-001 Oct 1985D >     o   PRO 380 Owner's Manual, 1 fiche, EP-PC380-OM-002, Aug 19857 >     o   PRO 380 Installing the expander box, 1 fiche,t# >         EP-PCEXB-IN-001, Aug 1985C >h > and finally an oddball:- >m5 > 1   Adaptec 2842 VL Bus High Performance Bus Mastere6 >     VL-to-Fast SCSI Host adapter with EZSCSI 3.1 kit3 >     (Yep! I used to have a PC with VL bus in it!)- >- > All the best,- >  > Adrian >0 > Tel: +44 (1455) 828896   ------------------------------   Date: 05 Jun 2001 01:53:48 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com>5. Subject: Re: Some more bits looking for a home0 Message-ID: <3b1c3be3$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>   I do not think this will help.  7 The DEPCA is a ISA bus and the PRO has proprietary bus.   K I do not have a manual here at home so I will have to look and see what the  real number is...    --
 Bill Pedersena CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learninga
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  . "Howes" <howes001@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message$ news:3B1C36A8.85A7719E@tc.umn.edu...I > Adrian - I know this is a few weeks ago, but I have been looking for ans< > ethernet interface for a PRO 350 I have restored recently. > K > Is the DEPCA still available ? I assume this will fit the PRO's funky bust > . . .y > K > I am in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA for reference to quote shipping costsc; > if you still have it and wish to sell it to a yank!   ;-)  >t
 > regards, >p
 >   Ron Howes. >  > Adrian Lumsden wrote:i >yI > > Sorry to keep posting these things in dribs and drabs. I keep findingi > > more boxen.a > >lJ > > These available for free; location Leicester, UK; you collect or cover
 > > shipping.  > >n$ > > 2   DEPCA PRO Ethernet interface1 > > 1   DE203-PA ISA Ethernet Interface, 10Base2,o8 > >     includes manual and driver floppy. Boxed as new. > >e > > For the PRO fans:- > >y) > > 1   Microfiche set for PRO 300 Seriesm9 > >     o   Technical Manual Volume 2, Options, 2 fiches, % > >         EP-PC300-V2-001, Oct 1995n? > >     o   Technical Manual, Volume 1, Kernel System, 3 fiches-$ > >         EP-PC300-V1-001 Oct 1985F > >     o   PRO 380 Owner's Manual, 1 fiche, EP-PC380-OM-002, Aug 19859 > >     o   PRO 380 Installing the expander box, 1 fiche,g% > >         EP-PCEXB-IN-001, Aug 1985e > >  > > and finally an oddball:- > >d7 > > 1   Adaptec 2842 VL Bus High Performance Bus Masterm8 > >     VL-to-Fast SCSI Host adapter with EZSCSI 3.1 kit5 > >     (Yep! I used to have a PC with VL bus in it!)S > >a > > All the best,  > > 
 > > Adrian > >C > > Tel: +44 (1455) 828896 >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:04:17 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>8. Subject: Re: Some more bits looking for a home' Message-ID: <3B1C3E21.B2F58018@fsi.net>y   Howes wrote: > I > Adrian - I know this is a few weeks ago, but I have been looking for an < > ethernet interface for a PRO 350 I have restored recently. > K > Is the DEPCA still available ? I assume this will fit the PRO's funky busi > . . .. > K > I am in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA for reference to quote shipping costs ; > if you still have it and wish to sell it to a yank!   ;-)@  F I have DEPCA (somewhere) if he doesn't. We just moved, and it may take me a while to unearth it...3   -- @ David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 04:47:47 GMT From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)s. Subject: Re: Some more bits looking for a home& Message-ID: <GEFxBn.K3I@world.std.com>  / "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> writes:b   >I do not think this will help.   8 >The DEPCA is a ISA bus and the PRO has proprietary bus.  , The Ethernet option for the PRO is the DECNA   					Megan Gentryv 					Former RT-11 Developere  H +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+H | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |H | Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |H | Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |I | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | sH | Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |H | (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg            KB1FCA |H +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 16:56:47 -0700t  From: moi_is_me@usa.net (Pierre) Subject: srm and unexpected crd = Message-ID: <cdbc7707.0106041556.7fca6189@posting.google.com>m   Hi,n  >   Believeing I have problem with my machine memory, I issue a 8   "test memory" command from the SRM of my XP1000, which   then proceded to say...p  #   Unexpected CRD through vector 630      Anyone know what this means ?n  D   BTW - after executing the "test memory" command, it never seems to=   stop, nor does the reset button work - have to power cycle.i     thank you inadvancep   -Pierre    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 22:09 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)S9 Subject: Tape compression factor (was: Re: Backup to CD?) , Message-ID: <4JUN200122094549@gerg.tamu.edu>  ! tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk writes... O }Maybe I snipped too much of the thread, which has moved on from CD's to how to . }get the compression factor from a TZ8* drive. }--i7 }Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Projectn  C It seems to me that one way would be to keep track of the rate that C data is flowing to the drive. Since bits are recorded at a constant E rate when the thing is streaming, then the rate that the uncompresseduE data is flowing to the drive can be used to tell what the compression C ratio is. All you have to worry about it buffering and the probablycC somewhat "bursty" nature of the I/O operations, as well as droppingt@ from streaming to "stop'n'go" recording. If you average the data@ transfer rate over several seconds, you should get a pretty goodB idea of the average compression ratio for that time period as longD as the tape was streaming for the entire interval (there is also theC possibility that the tape drive might record nothing to cover briefm@ intervals of data starvation without stopping). You just need toF know the base, uncompressed, tape recording rate and the actual amountF of data transferred in the sampling interval. Determining of the driveC is streaming or not may be a tad more difficult - I have no idea if20 there is a way to find this out programatically.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:26:23 -0400 From: "John McDen" <jj@jj.moc>  Subject: telnet to alpha help !!+ Message-ID: <9fgjpa$ijm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>t   Hi  E I am using IBM AIX UNIX and trying to telnet to a ALPHA VMS box. I ammG writing a script so that a user when runs the script will telnet to ther7 ALPHA box and will be prompted to enter users password.   A I tried to use "telnet -l (username) (boxname)" but did not work.t  K Is ther a way the user will be prompted for his password only (meaning thatn/ the username is already at the username prompt)n   Thanks in advance.   JJ   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 18:37:11 GMT40 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)$ Subject: Re: telnet to alpha help !!5 Message-ID: <9fgkgn$st3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>l  I In article <9fgjpa$ijm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, John McDen <jj@jj.moc> wrote: G : I am using IBM AIX UNIX and trying to telnet to a ALPHA VMS box. I amdI : writing a script so that a user when runs the script will telnet to the>9 : ALPHA box and will be prompted to enter users password.w : C : I tried to use "telnet -l (username) (boxname)" but did not work.  : M : Is ther a way the user will be prompted for his password only (meaning thato1 : the username is already at the username prompt)  : # Use C-Kermit as your telnet client:   !   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/f  J and you can control this and everything else, and you can script it to any desired degree.  See:T  /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.htmln  
 for examples.m   - Frank.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:32:06 -0400s+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>I$ Subject: Re: telnet to alpha help !!# Message-ID: <sb1b9c03.072@aaas.org>e  E With most flavors of SSH you can pass the username into the connect =.> string, but I'm not familiar with a way to do it using telnet.  6 >>> "John McDen" <jj@jj.moc> 06/04/2001 2:26:23 PM >>> Hi  E I am using IBM AIX UNIX and trying to telnet to a ALPHA VMS box. I amaG writing a script so that a user when runs the script will telnet to thep7 ALPHA box and will be prompted to enter users password.t  A I tried to use "telnet -l (username) (boxname)" but did not work.t  H Is ther a way the user will be prompted for his password only (meaning = that/ the username is already at the username prompt)    Thanks in advance.   JJ   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:42:54 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> $ Subject: RE: telnet to alpha help !!L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EE3@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----% > From: John McDen [mailto:jj@jj.moc]e  G > I am using IBM AIX UNIX and trying to telnet to a ALPHA VMS box. I amu< > writing a script so that a user when runs the script will  > telnet to the(9 > ALPHA box and will be prompted to enter users password.   C > I tried to use "telnet -l (username) (boxname)" but did not work.E  @ > Is ther a way the user will be prompted for his password only  > (meaning that 1 > the username is already at the username prompt)     J Not having a lot of information on what you want to do, you could possiblyJ use rlogin instead of telnet.  rlogin will ask for a password, but allow aH username to be specified on the command-line.  If you want the script toJ have control of the terminal and do something once they're logged into theH VMS machine, I'd suggest looking into the TCL language with the "expect"' add-on.  That will certainly handle it.    Regards,   Chrisr  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");k 'e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:09:31 -04000( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>$ Subject: Re: telnet to alpha help !!+ Message-ID: <3B1BDCEA.CBACFA54@bigfoot.com>a  N The Tcl extension known as "Expect" can be used to do this. Tcl/Tk information; and downloads are availbale from http://tcl.activestate.coms   HM   John McDen wrote:t   > Hi >pG > I am using IBM AIX UNIX and trying to telnet to a ALPHA VMS box. I amGI > writing a script so that a user when runs the script will telnet to theF9 > ALPHA box and will be prompted to enter users password.- >-C > I tried to use "telnet -l (username) (boxname)" but did not work.= >=M > Is ther a way the user will be prompted for his password only (meaning thate1 > the username is already at the username prompt)  >  > Thanks in advance. >n > JJ   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:12:08 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)$ Subject: Re: telnet to alpha help !!3 Message-ID: <c4RS6.1009$fi2.26878@news.cpqcorp.net>p  L In article <9fgjpa$ijm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "John McDen" <jj@jj.moc> writes:  F :I am using IBM AIX UNIX and trying to telnet to a ALPHA VMS box. I amH :writing a script so that a user when runs the script will telnet to the8 :ALPHA box and will be prompted to enter users password.  G   The OpenVMS TCP/IP Services telnet server does not currently support oG   the OpenVMS ALF mechanism (SYSALF; the Automatic Login Facility) nor     is it Kerberos-ed.  L :Is ther a way the user will be prompted for his password only (meaning that0 :the username is already at the username prompt)  E   Depending on what you are up to, you might well want an alternativekE   approach, such as rsh or rexec over, and "aim" an X Windows displayiE   back at the remote system via IP.  Alternatively, enter one or two iF   commands via the rsh/rexec, or invoke a command procedure or such...  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 01:27:15 +0200p) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>x Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B1C1953.DA3226BA@infopuls.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com] >  > > Christopher Smith wrote: > 9 > > > It's interesting to note that I can't think of much  > > commercial softwareu= > > > that's not written in C/C++ these days.  Perhaps ratherw > > than porting a< > > > modern application, one should consider looking for an > > older one with aE > > > solid foundation and doing a port/enhancement at the same time.  > > > > Is there a classification in what PL apps are implemented?D > > Why not take a decent TurboPascal/Delphi app and port it to VMS? > N > Well, no reason at all.  Unfortunately I'm not sure that there are many appsL > done in turbo pascal (Delphi) these days.  Probably fewer still that solve3 > the problems for which VMS needs applications. :)l > J > On the other hand, if you can find one, it may be simple (relatively) toN > make a "turbo pascal compatibility layer" on top of DEC Pascal, or somethingL > like that, which could give functions that were like Delphi functions, butJ > which used X11 for graphics, and native VMS interfaces for other things.K > That would solve the "immediate need" problem.  A later version could, ofI" > course, be more properly ported. > @ > > > It's unfortunate that web browsers are probably too new to > > do this with.  A> > > > web browser in ADA would be interesting.  As a matter of > > preference, I don't@ > @ > > Ada or DEC Pascal would be a very nice programming platform. > * > That's more or less what I was thinking. > 
 > Regards, >  > Chris: > # > Christopher Smith, Perl Developerb > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");- > '  >   > Okay, here we have an alternative semester programme: create a6 Delphi/Kylix compatibility layer on top of DEC Pascal.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 01:31:37 +0200u) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>/ Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B1C1A59.28837551@infopuls.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com] > = > > Very good idea, similar to a meritocraty: if you are wellhC > > educated and skillful you can do what you want, you can use thet? > > PL you like and you have more political and social power. AlC > > newbie has to program in a very safe environment, e.g. to write  > > applets in Java. > J > That's putting it bluntly. :)  I'd like to make it clear, though, that IJ > don't advocate requiring people to use "safe" languages.  People can useJ > what they like, but I'd never recommend that a person new to programming > start out with fortran. ;) > L > What I'm really saying is that I think the world should "standardize" on aI > safer language (for application programming), since a lot of people wholN > don't know much about programming will just go with the standard.  The trickL > is to make it safe, while not making it too restrictive for an experiencedK > programmer (who will inevitably get stuck using it some time or another).a > J > Applets in Java are an interesting proposition, and should be incrediblyE > safe, however, until the state of Java VMs improves some (or native I > compilers...), I'm not sure whether that's even as safe as it could be.- > 
 > Regards, >  > Chrisa > # > Christopher Smith, Perl DeveloperV > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");a > 'i  > Great, let's choose our entry level standard language. From my< point of view it *is* possible to design a language in a way; that it supports safety against stupid (human) mistakes ands? power for the skillful programmer. A modern Pascal version likeg) the modular DEC Pascal will do the trick.   ; I recently read a proposal to replace "unsafe" by "only fort# restricted use" in the area of PLs.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:58:52 -0400l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406012258520001@user-2ivecih.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3B1C1A59.28837551@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass- <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:g    @ > Great, let's choose our entry level standard language. From my> > point of view it *is* possible to design a language in a way= > that it supports safety against stupid (human) mistakes and A > power for the skillful programmer. A modern Pascal version likeo+ > the modular DEC Pascal will do the trick.   @ Ada is a very modern Pascal derivative, and is very portable.  AE "beginner's subset" is pretty much as easy to learn as Pascal.  Maybe D easier, due to the absense of some of the nastier syntax problems in Pascal.e  4 Ada has plenty of power for the skillful programmer.  H (Note, Ada doesn't have any official subsets, but common sense shows the' way to a reasonable beginner's subset.)d  I Ada on VMS isn't currently very well supported.  VMS is NOT one of GNAT'sy0 favorite platorms, but it is available for free.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 22:56 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)- Subject: RE: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <4JUN200122560845@gerg.tamu.edu>  / Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes...83 }> From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]  }> Christopher Smith wrote: 9 }> > It's interesting to note that I can't think of much 2 }> commercial software= }> > that's not written in C/C++ these days.  Perhaps rather 3 }> than porting ap< }> > modern application, one should consider looking for an  }> older one with aiD }> > solid foundation and doing a port/enhancement at the same time. } = }> Is there a classification in what PL apps are implemented?hC }> Why not take a decent TurboPascal/Delphi app and port it to VMS?o } M }Well, no reason at all.  Unfortunately I'm not sure that there are many appsIK }done in turbo pascal (Delphi) these days.  Probably fewer still that solvet2 }the problems for which VMS needs applications. :) } I }On the other hand, if you can find one, it may be simple (relatively) to M }make a "turbo pascal compatibility layer" on top of DEC Pascal, or somethingnK }like that, which could give functions that were like Delphi functions, butaI }which used X11 for graphics, and native VMS interfaces for other things.iJ }That would solve the "immediate need" problem.  A later version could, of! }course, be more properly ported.a  = Or you could just get Kylix (the new Linux version of Delphi)m ported to VMS.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 04 Jun 2001 23:37:42 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com>f Subject: Re: UCX address changee0 Message-ID: <3b1c1bfd$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  L This is in the SYS$MANAGER:UCX$CONFIG.COM command procedure.  You need to do' a CORE ENVIRONMENT and then INTERFACES.b   Bill.t   --
 Bill Pedersenc CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learnings
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  7 "Mark McGuire" <mmcguire@maxitrol.com> wrote in messagen& news:3B1BC2D6.27E2EDE5@maxitrol.com...J > Cannot figure out how to change an existing IP address for our UCX host. >eB > Running TCP/IP services version 4.0 on Vax 4000-90 OpenVMS 5.5-2 >-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:25:35 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: Re: Veritas x OpenVMS( Message-ID: <9fgqnf$qsb$1@pyrite.mv.net>  6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OF9E1CDE30.714C1CA4-ON8325696F.006DAA48@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br... >L$ > If you never tought about it . . .  K I've maintained for the past 15 years that a vacuum existed in the industry3J for a standard file-level storage solution, and for the past several yearsL I've suspected that Veritas would fill that vacuum if no one else stepped upE to the plate - especially as they've branched out into network backupmK solutions and primitive clustering and expanded use of their logical volume1F manager to SUN, then (I think) HP-UX, then Tru-64, and now Win2K.  SUNF customers also use Veritas' VxFS file system in large numbers, I thinkH HP-UX's file system may be a direct licensed clone, I'm pretty sure VxFSL runs on Tru-64, it's just getting up to speed on AIX, and it may even run on Win2K.   >s= > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6159839.html?tag=mn_hdt >t> > They are the company which can finish the OpenVMS Cluster...  G Or more likely finish *off* the VMS cluster, since if anyone but CompaqmH develops such a standard it sure as hell won't include things like ODS-2 versioning.    >?: > They are known as the High Availability Company ! (????)  G Not by people who are familiar with what that phrase really means.  ButhE since that doesn't include most of the world (especially the Unix and8K Windows world), if they can build that perception then they'll benefit fromt it.s   - bill   >   > Where are  the Compaq ads ???? >e	 > Regardsa >  > FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:57:57 -04004 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> Subject: Re: VMS Musings+ Message-ID: <9fgsoo$hfq$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>    Where was the coffee cup?  :-)   mark .e  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:FzwR6.897$fi2.24569@news.cpqcorp.net... >'' > Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ... % > >I paid a visit to Spit Brook today  >uB > I noticed the "Charlie Matco Was Here" note on my whiteboard ;-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:11:51 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: VMS Musings= Message-ID: <rQSS6.21616$zl5.6656145@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>t  ? "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> wrote in messagea% news:9fgsoo$hfq$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...e >m  > Where was the coffee cup?  :-)  L Rumour has it that a post-millennium Matco mug is being designed in a secretL mug design facility. Transfer cost is the gating factor, it's gonna be about  ten bucks a copy to do it right.   >  > mark > .0 >rB > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message. > news:FzwR6.897$fi2.24569@news.cpqcorp.net... > >m) > > Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ... ' > > >I paid a visit to Spit Brook todays > >tD > > I noticed the "Charlie Matco Was Here" note on my whiteboard ;-) >r   Ah. I'm BUSTED!r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:52:38 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: VMS MusingsL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406012252380001@user-2ivecih.dialup.mindspring.com>  G In article <rQSS6.21616$zl5.6656145@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.4+ Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:C  A > "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> wrote in message@' > news:9fgsoo$hfq$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...e > >j" > > Where was the coffee cup?  :-) > N > Rumour has it that a post-millennium Matco mug is being designed in a secretN > mug design facility. Transfer cost is the gating factor, it's gonna be about" > ten bucks a copy to do it right.    Not to be made in China, I hope.   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 03:04:49 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: VMS Musings= Message-ID: <l%XS6.21930$zl5.6869995@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>i  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-0406012252380001@user-2ivecih.dialup.mindspring.com...I > In article <rQSS6.21616$zl5.6656145@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.-- > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:2 > C > > "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> wrote in messagel) > > news:9fgsoo$hfq$1@lead.zk3.dec.com.... > > >s$ > > > Where was the coffee cup?  :-) > >pI > > Rumour has it that a post-millennium Matco mug is being designed in aa secretJ > > mug design facility. Transfer cost is the gating factor, it's gonna be about $ > > ten bucks a copy to do it right. >t" > Not to be made in China, I hope. >c  L ABSOLUTELY NOT! Sorry, I spent two years in Vietnam on the receiving end of,K umm, items of ChiCom manufacture. That's more than enough engagement with a)E country that, under the William Jefferson Clintonocchio regime, was ae "Strategic Partner."   Long live FREE TAIWAN.  / The mugs most likely will be of US manufacture.s   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 12:55:30 -0700 & From: wskibum@pacbell.net (Jim Medlin)0 Subject: Re: WANTED!  Qbus SCSI drive controller= Message-ID: <a9d42b84.0106041155.3f716d47@posting.google.com>B  n "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message news:<b8ZR6.109$D96.6986@typhoon.aracnet.com>...) > Jim Medlin <wskibum@pacbell.net> wrote: L > > I am trying to bring an old MVII back to life and need a Q-bus scsi diskL > > controller.  I have been prowling Ebay and news groups for nearly a yearL > > without any luck.  I can buy a new card for 1,500.00 bucks but that kindM > > of money is more than I'll ever be able to afford for this hobby project.g >   P > > Anybody out there parting out an old system or have a spare they can help me
 > > out with?  > L > You might want to try looking for an ESDI controller and drives also.  TheJ > odds are you can find some decent drives and a controller pretty cheap. N > SCSI controllers for Q-Bus systems are expensive, my VAXen don't rate them,  > my PDP-11's do :^) > G > You might also consider looking into a VAXstation 3100 or 4000 seriesd- > machine and boot the MicroVAX II off of it.d > 	 > 			Zane     D I just want to thank everyone for the reply mail.  Within 24 hours IE have had 3 people contact me with controllers for sale, at affordablekE prices I might add.  My thanks to the group for showing Vaxen support3 is still alive!a  
 Thanks again,m  
 Jim Medlin   ------------------------------  , Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 05:13:41 +0200 (CEST)- From: Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>e0 Subject: Re: WANTED!  Qbus SCSI drive controllerK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106050512550.10527-100000@firewall.wes.mee.com>    Hi!   F > I just want to thank everyone for the reply mail.  Within 24 hours IG > have had 3 people contact me with controllers for sale, at affordable G > prices I might add.  My thanks to the group for showing Vaxen support  > is still alive!t   Hmm. That's interesting.I Could I get the contact information, as a friend of mine is searching ones for his uVAX II, too.e   Thanks in advance, 	Freddyt   -- nN Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv  J ==========================================================================D  Frederik Meerwaldt  ICQ: 83045387  Homepage: http://www.freddym.orgC  Bavaria/Germany              OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much morebI  Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOSX   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 22:20 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)l$ Subject: Re: What does READ/NEW do ?, Message-ID: <4JUN200122200001@gerg.tamu.edu>  5 "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> writes...pA }I will give it another try - I have a variety of VMS versions...c }  }--r }Chris  B If you are willing to loose all your settings (editor, forwarding,A mail subdirectory, etc.) you can just use the REMOVE command fromeD inside MAIL to nuke the record out of the VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA file. See "MAIL> HELP REMOVE".  A Considering that you said it was a test account and you had tried @ deleting the MAIL.MAI file, I suspect that loosing your settings isn't a problem.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 12:51:12 -0700 * From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham)5 Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS 6.2 support 18 & 36GB disks-< Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0106041151.2b475eec@posting.google.com>  F Many thanks to all who replied, I was successfully able to migrate the data from 8gb to 18gb drives.#   Regards, vmendham@altavista.com  l hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<T_bR6.849$fi2.22501@news.cpqcorp.net>...k > In article <BmYO6.45147$MR1.6904622@news02.optonline.net>, "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com> writes:- > :Yep, they work fine. 9 > :Nope, nothing particularly interesting about the INIT.  >  ..p2 > :"Vic Mendham" <vmendham@altavista.com> wrote...5 > :: Will Open VMS support 18GB and 36 GB data disks?  > F >   You may (will) need an ECO or two for systems as far back as V6.2. > K >   Please check the OpenVMS FAQ for details.  Section FILE5, among others.n >  >  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 18:13:19 GMTh# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edun2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fgj3v$3lv$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>m  3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >andrew harrison wrote:v >> Jordan Henderson wrote:6 >> > andrew harrison  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote:  ? Just to reiterate, nearly all atmospheric scientists agree thatm@ global warming has occured.  IMHO those who don't are in denial.  B What is less universally agreed upon is whether the global warmingD that has occured in the last 100 years or so is due to human causes.  J >> Rubbish, the developed world produces over 90% of the worlds greenhouseG >> gasses, with the US being by far the largest contributor. Even under E >> the limitted terms agreed at Kyoto the US would still be by far intH >> a way the largest producer of greenhouse gasses on a per capita basis >> in 20 years time.  A >I've yet to see a satisfactory answer to the question of whetheryI >so-called "greenhouse" gasses are a cause or an effect. That is, does anmG >elevation in the presence of such gasses lead to a rise in atmospheric E >heat absorption and/or retention, or does an over-abundance of solarnE >heating result in an acceleration of the processes which elevate the3F >levels of those gasses in the atmosphere, or both (a self-propagatingE >"loop" beyond the control or influence of any single factor, or even B >multiple factors that might debatably be influenced by industrial >development)?  B Historically we don't know.  We do know that temperature has been < correlated with CO2 and other greenhouse gasses for the last 400 thousand years or so.r  @ We also know that, all other things being equal, an increase in . greenhouse gasses /will/ increase temperature.  G We also know that we are at or near record levels of CO2 and at least ae! couple of other greenhouse gases.   I >Regardless of whether greenhouse gasses are a cause or an effect, I dare)H >say that volcanism, a process well beyond the control of any life form,I >contributes more to the levels of such gasses on a world-wide scale thano5 >any local concentrations due to industrial activity.   ? Human CO2 output is roughly 4% of the total natural CO2 output.aD Since 1958 or so the levels of CO2 levels have been going up fairly I consistantly over that period, even though from what I gather there have rC been very few (historically speaking) volcanoes during that period.e  0 http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming/faq/iheard.html< http://faculty.quinnipiac.edu/health/biology/buckley/bi_101/    biomonitoring/sld003.htma3 http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/seminars/990923FO.htmle7 http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/meth/methane_intr.htm '- http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/meth/ch4.htma  , Do you have any sources for your statements?   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:22:34 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BD1E8.6E77541D@videotron.ca>   andrew harrison wrote:I > Rubbish, the developed world produces over 90% of the worlds greenhouset< > gasses, with the US being by far the largest contributor.   K The biggest problem in this is not what is actually being produced now, butnN what happens when developping nations follow the USA's lead as their economiesL develop. If every chinese had a personal SUV as is the case in the USA, thenI the pollution problem would in fact result in the earth no longer being a  viable place for humans.  N If the USA wants to protect its lifestyle, it will have to compromise and showI the world what the limits are in terms of wasting energy, otherwise everyaL other nations will be able to say "if the USA is allowed to pollute X amount per capita, then so should we".t  N It is called leadership by example. If you want other nations to cleanup their) act, you have to clean up your act first.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:31:51 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <3B1BD415.7E88EEB@videotron.ca>s   Bob Koehler wrote:F > Lots of people, in fact, have the authority to negotiate.  What theyH > don't have is the authority to ratify.  Why should we trust one person > with so much power?   M The problem is one of internal process. Are you going to sign the contract to L purchase 100 Alpha servers without first having had agreement from your beanN counters ? Do you go back to Compaq once you signed on the dotted line to tellN them that your bean counter have refused the deal and that they should tear up the papers ?  K When a head of states signs a treaty, it is expected that he does so with aiJ realistic level of assurance that his internal/domestic system of law willN ratify it. When a country does not ratify a treaty that was signed by its head  of state, the country looks bad.  I Your constitution is purely a domestic matter and is of no consequence toeK foreigners. If a head of state commits to a treaty, it is expected that the>L country will implement that treaty. It is up to the head of state to know ifN ratification of the treaty by his internal government is possible or not PRIOR to signing the treaty.  N And yes, the USA is not alone in this. In Canada, we had the Meech Lake accordM that was supposed to bring Qubec officially into canada (Qubec never signed L our current constitution), and all provincial leaders, ncluding Qubec's hadL signed the deal, but 2 province's legislatures failed to ratify the deal andF it fell through. The two provinces were accused of breaking up Canada.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:35:22 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BD4E7.BDBC52AB@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:A > I've taken an ordinary sedan in most of the wilderness off-roade( > situations you see SUVs advertized in.  M First of all, few  "SUV" sold in the USA are in fact capable of true off roadsM driving. The funniest one is the Subaru Outback (ok, not quite an SUV). ThereEN are very few of them in Australia, but I did see one having to go back becauseD it was not capable of driving over a road I had ridden on a bicycle.  K For true off-road, you need significant clearance under the vehicle. HavingD' 4wd doesn't make it an offroad vehicle.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:40:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>V2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BD638.693D281F@videotron.ca>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:c > F > Which I presume is the reason that Alistair Cooke in his Letter fromJ > America a few weeks ago was relating the fact that some of the blackouts > have been around mid-day.   H Because electricity distributors in Kalifornia have not signed long termN supply contracts, they have to buy electricity at the last minute. This is theE same as buying an airplane ticket at the last minute. VERY expensived  H Consider that many of the producers of electricity are owned by the sameN company that distributes the electricity to households. Guess who profits whenF the distributor buys power on the spot markets at exhorbitant prices ?   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 18:26:44 GMT # From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fgjt4$3lv$3@husk.cso.niu.edu>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:X   >Lets not kid ourselves,B >Bill Gates may split the companies up in such a way to please theB >authoritioes, but those companies will remain one single logical  >entity in practice.  C I have to disagree, once split into individual companies they will s2 be much more vulnerable to anti-trust enforcement.   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 18:25:16 GMT?# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edur2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fgjqc$3lv$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>l  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:u >Robert Deininger wrote: >> <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:  E >> > The consequences of Bush's "strategy" are 1000 new nuclear power D >> > stations within the USA and exploration and exploitation of oil= >> > fields in Alaska with destroying protected nature areas.: >> VM >> Sorry Christof, you're way out on this.  There aren't likely to be any neweM >> nuclear power stations here any time soon.  Perhaps a few will appear, the D >> 1000 is a totally absurd number.  The U.S. public is (sadly) veryK >> anti-nuclear due to the past few decades of propaganda they've absorbed.   ? >This number was presented in the press as a explicit statement  >of the Bush administration.3 >I wonder why you didn't talk about the oil fields.r  ? The scuttlebutt seems to be that the Alaskan oil fields will bes< the sacrificial lamb to get the rest of Bush's plan through.  A >I'm 50% physicist and I'm very familiar with the consequences toa= >environment and statistics of nuclear power. I don't go intoo< >detail here because - as I said - I don't think this is the >appropriate forum.i  > This is possibly the only point with which I partly agree with/ Deininger, our fear of nuclear is irrational.     @ Current design sucks but there are safer designs out there that D deserve a shot, especially since at least some of them could greatly reduce our waste problem..   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:51:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BD8B7.C19EA38E@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > Regardless of whether greenhouse gasses are a cause or an effect, I dareI > say that volcanism, a process well beyond the control of any life form,QJ > contributes more to the levels of such gasses on a world-wide scale than6 > any local concentrations due to industrial activity.  N Volcanoes are not a daily occurance. Pollution is a daily occurance. The earthN has adapted sufficiently over millenia to survive eruptions of volcanoes.  TheN earth has a certain ability to process greehhouse gases at a rate which is theA same as it is being naturally produced. it is called equilibrium.y  N But what man is doing is adding more gases in the atmosphere than the earth isM setup to handle, especially when you consider the amount of forests that were L cut down to make room for the population, or when you consider farming whichN elevates the number of animals, especially cows that produce a lot of methane.N  But when you prioritize what should go first, luxury personnal transportationT is something people can live without. Food is not something people can live without.  F Unfortunatly, the USA is one of the countries where there are the mostN widespread excesses in luxury, so it is a country that will eventually have toF make some larger sacrifices and drop some of those luxuries (such as a! personal SUV to commute to work).    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 18:48:47 GMTe# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edue2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fgl6f$3lv$4@husk.cso.niu.edu>   4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  H >Hans Bethe (and many others) have addressed this.  Store the high-levelF >stuff for a few years so it can cool down substantially.  Mix it withJ >sand, melt the mixture into glass, encase the chunks in several layers ofK >non-radioactive glass, and bury it in a nice dry place like the site beingy >prepared in Nevada.  * Which is right above a major water source.  I There are lots of ways of dealing with HLW, none of them make me terriblycE happy.  This was my senior project some 20 years ago, and my proposed4C sol'n was to run it through a reprocessor and reuse it to use it up.G some more, then to let it sit 20-50 years before putting it undergroundm somewhere secure.<  C Of course the problem with that is that reprocessing is notoriously  dirty.  H >Reactor waste is highly radioactive, but it does not stay thay way very0 >long.  A few years makes a lot of difference.    E 20-50 years makes a lot of difference, 2 or 3 does not, and even then  you have quite a bit left over.f  D A far cry from 10s of thousands of years but not a few years either.  E My recollection from my senior project is that it took a few thousandiC years before it was "safe".  I don't remember my precise definition A for safe, but if I were to redo it I would probably set it at thec level of danger from granite.Q  D But in reality you need to compare how much danger there is from the different alternatives as well.e  ? And take into account worst case scenarios as well as best caset
 scenarios.   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:00:20 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BDABF.1483C96F@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:G > Mars was brought up.  This same wag went on at great length about howaC > arrogant it was to think that we mere mortals could significantlyrD > change the atmosphere of a whole planet.  Does anyone else see theE > irony here??  He claims we are already doing by accident that whicheC > he also claims we couldn't do if we devoted all our effort to it.   E It is easy to ruin a breathable atmosphere. It is much harder to turna. unbreathable atmosphere into a breathable one.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 18:59:45 GMT # From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fglr1$53p$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>i  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes::" >steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: >> +G >> Which I presume is the reason that Alistair Cooke in his Letter from=K >> America a few weeks ago was relating the fact that some of the blackoutsf >> have been around mid-day.   > I >Because electricity distributors in Kalifornia have not signed long term O >supply contracts, they have to buy electricity at the last minute. This is the F >same as buying an airplane ticket at the last minute. VERY expensive >cI >Consider that many of the producers of electricity are owned by the same>O >company that distributes the electricity to households. Guess who profits wheneG >the distributor buys power on the spot markets at exhorbitant prices ?a  > Motto of the story, if you are going to deregulate the market, DEREGULATE!!   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:11:19 -0400M2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406011511190001@user-2ive7nb.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B1BD638.693D281F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei-% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:0    J > Consider that many of the producers of electricity are owned by the sameP > company that distributes the electricity to households. Guess who profits whenH > the distributor buys power on the spot markets at exhorbitant prices ?  I But not in California.  The (completely misnamed) "deregulation" law madeoE the distribution companies sell their generating facilities.  It also.G forbad long-term contract for power.  It also fixed the retail price of@@ electricity at what is now well below market price.  Result: theH electricity distributors are buying power at spot-market prices, sellingH it to consumers for less than they are paying, and going broke.  Some ofJ the generators are making quite a bit of money on paper, but there is realF doubt whether they will ever get paid.  On one hand, the government isJ asking folks to build more power plants and distribution lines, and on theH other hand is threatening to seize the ones that already exist.  In this: situation, how could there NOT be a problem in California?   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:17:14 -0400S2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406011517150001@user-2ive7nb.dialup.mindspring.com>  P In article <9fgl6f$3lv$4@husk.cso.niu.edu>, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:    J > >Reactor waste is highly radioactive, but it does not stay thay way very2 > >long.  A few years makes a lot of difference.   > G > 20-50 years makes a lot of difference, 2 or 3 does not, and even thenp! > you have quite a bit left over.l  D A year or two makes the waste a LOT less radioactive than say, a fewJ weeks.  Spent fuel is typically stored on-site in water pools for of order% a year before anything is done to it.m   > F > A far cry from 10s of thousands of years but not a few years either. > G > My recollection from my senior project is that it took a few thousand E > years before it was "safe".  I don't remember my precise definitionfC > for safe, but if I were to redo it I would probably set it at thea > level of danger from granite.   J That's probably overdoing it, but any such measure is fairly arbitrary and subjective.e  D Careful meantioning granite, or you'll have some folks trying to ban headstones! :-)g  F > But in reality you need to compare how much danger there is from the! > different alternatives as well.    Very good point.   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:47:59 -0500p1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1BE5EF.D52D1FD2@fsi.net>t   JF Mezei wrote:w >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:L > > Regardless of whether greenhouse gasses are a cause or an effect, I dareK > > say that volcanism, a process well beyond the control of any life form,qL > > contributes more to the levels of such gasses on a world-wide scale than8 > > any local concentrations due to industrial activity. > & > Volcanoes are not a daily occurance.  D Neither are killer asteriod collisions, but don't tell the dinosaurs	 that. ;-)y  F Seriously, the "common-ness" is not the issue. The issue is the volume of pollutants per event.  E I've never been to Hawaii; but, I believe there are places there wereuB the release of both lava and gasses is both daily and constant. In> Yellowstone Park, there areas where gasses are released almost$ constantly (nature's chimney, huh?).  + > Pollution is a daily occurance. The earthtP > has adapted sufficiently over millenia to survive eruptions of volcanoes.  TheP > earth has a certain ability to process greehhouse gases at a rate which is theC > same as it is being naturally produced. it is called equilibrium.t  G When one element of such an equation changes, the whole tends to find ao& new point of equilibrium, does it not?  pP > But what man is doing is adding more gases in the atmosphere than the earth is > setup to handle,  G Remember, also, that the industrial revolution, as we know it, has only + a slightly longer history than our country.t  > > especially when you consider the amount of forests that were+ > cut down to make room for the population,n  E ...and the amount of rain forest that is cleared every day to satisfy  the greed of people...  $ > or when you consider farming whichP > elevates the number of animals, especially cows that produce a lot of methane.  G My wife would probably include me along with the cows :-) (Oops! Excusel me!)  P >  But when you prioritize what should go first, luxury personnal transportation' > is something people can live without.n  E Luxury is one issue. Perceived safety is another issue entirely, much 4 more emotional and much more difficult to over-ride.  0 > Food is not something people can live without. > H > Unfortunatly, the USA is one of the countries where there are the most! > widespread excesses in luxury, l  G Difficult to argue with that, given the lifestyles of eighty years ago.y  1 > so it is a country that will eventually have to H > make some larger sacrifices and drop some of those luxuries (such as a# > personal SUV to commute to work).   E Those who survived both the Great Depression and war-time here in the E States would know exactly what you mean, I'm sure. (That's not what IoD wanted to say, but I couldn't think of another way to say it without, sounding like an anarchist or a war-monger.)   -- u David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:03:38 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?$ Message-ID: <3b1be9c2$1@news.si.com>  H >Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate the >electricity somewhere.e  L GM has recently developed a battery/electric motor pair that doesn't requireJ recharging the batteries by plugging them in somewhere.  The batteries areK constantly being recharged.  It was on the news this morning.  Who knows if ' it will every be used in an automobile.n --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comcA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comb= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:38:27 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>:2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BF1B8.87309622@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote: K > But not in California.  The (completely misnamed) "deregulation" law madeaG > the distribution companies sell their generating facilities.  It alsod& > forbad long-term contract for power.  A What was the logic behind forbidding long term supply contracts ?f  H I know that Hydro Qubec has sold some very long term contracts to nerbyG states (New York, Vermont and I think New Hampshire) at very low rates.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:34:20 -0700e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coma2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?D Message-ID: <OFD41C1749.F2B68BCA-ON88256A61.0070BC06@foundation.com>  J But the energy to recharge the batteries is still being generated, it justG so happens the source is being carried around with the batteries. There.K must be some additional element here somewhere though. If the batteries arerF powering the motor that's charging the batteries, and the system neverF needs charging from outside, that would be the fabled perpetual motion machine.   Shane           J Brian Tillman <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> on 06/04/2001 01:03:38 PM  E Please respond to Brian Tillman <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>a   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt cc:s  3 Subject:  Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?     H >Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate the >electricity somewhere.   D GM has recently developed a battery/electric motor pair that doesn't requiretJ recharging the batteries by plugging them in somewhere.  The batteries areK constantly being recharged.  It was on the news this morning.  Who knows iff' it will every be used in an automobile.$ --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comXA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comp= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevents< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:44:21 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BF31A.99D7B93C@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:I > When one element of such an equation changes, the whole tends to find au( > new point of equilibrium, does it not?  L Yes. but it takes a while for the equilibrium to be reached, and during thatJ time, things can get very hectic. And if the new equilibrium from a warmerL planet means that the polar icecaps melted to some extent, it means that theM oceans will have higher levels. Cities on the shores of the oceans will start>T by having more and more flooding and eventually will loose parts of their territory.  J How much will it cost to protect Manhattan from floods whenever there is aN storm ? How much to protect Hong Kong, Amsterdam ? Los angeles, San Francico ,3 Seattle ? Sydney ? Auckland ? (list goes on an on).   H If taking relatively small lifestyle changes now means that we can avoidJ having to deal with major problems later, the actions should be taken now.L This si where the mentality of the current US adminstrators that no americanN should "suffer" due to restrictions on fuel and that americans muct be able to0 maintain their current lifestyle is veryu wrong.  M The current lifestyle is not sustainable. Some changes to it must be made forsQ it to be sustainable. The more you wait, the greater the changes will have to be.i   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 16:57:16 -0500o+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)n2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <vxu8sp5gSxKl@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  b In article <3b1be9c2$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:I >>Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate the. >>electricity somewhere. > N > GM has recently developed a battery/electric motor pair that doesn't requireL > recharging the batteries by plugging them in somewhere.  The batteries areM > constantly being recharged.  It was on the news this morning.  Who knows ifd) > it will every be used in an automobile.e  = Isn't this what the Toyota Prius already has?  It has an 1.6LP: ultra low emission gas engine and an electric motor with aA battery and charger system.  The battery runs the motor, with the ; gas engine kicking in for acceleration and such.  When yourh@ coasting, braking or running on the engine, the battery is being: charged.  No need to plug it in.   At least that is what I@ remember from the spiel I heard at the Toyota dealer.  3-6 month% lead time is the only drawback I saw.h   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 17:00:10 -0500d3 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <qCrTXaqbhAyr@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  $ In article <3b1be9c2$1@news.si.com>,= "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes: I >>Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate thei >>electricity somewhere. >s> > GM has recently developed a battery/electric motor pair that> > doesn't require recharging the batteries by plugging them in? > somewhere.  The batteries are constantly being recharged.  Ita> > was on the news this morning.  Who knows if it will every be > used in an automobile.  L This is not really *new* technology.  What is new is that car buyers are nowI willing to purchase it.  I am reasonbly sure that I saw another automaker  also announce such a vehicle.t  H In the past, car buyers held out for the hope of the all electic car, soD did not want a gas / electric combination.  If there had been marketF demand / exceptance a hybred vehicle could have probably been produced at least a decade ago.  F The big problem with that makes the electric cars uneconomical in manyI application is the cost of the batteries over their useful life is higher < than the cost of gasoline that would have been used instead.  F And the manufacture and disposal of batteries involves using hazardous
 materials.      G One of the big problems with the small cars, is that you can barely fiteF two car seats in them, and one study that I saw showed if you put fourG full size adults in one of gas mizers, the gas mileage dropped to abouttI the same as a mid to large car.  On the mid to large car, the gas mileage E remained about as bad with one driver as with 4.  So basically if youaD have a full load, you can ride with confort, or you can ride crammed together for the same gas cost.y    H SUV's also encompase a wide range of vehicles, that range from the largeJ four wheel drives to what is basically a small car with a large cargo area; in the rear.  The small ones can get very good gas mileage.f  G Of course there are some resource hogging examples out there, but thererH are a lot of people with SUVs that actually need their features, and the: SUV is the most economical vehicle to do the job for them.  G See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children with1K the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another baby:; in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus..   -Johnv Personal Opinion Onlyn wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:02:53 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BF770.390CFC10@videotron.ca>  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > L > But the energy to recharge the batteries is still being generated, it justI > so happens the source is being carried around with the batteries. ThereoM > must be some additional element here somewhere though. If the batteries are-H > powering the motor that's charging the batteries, and the system neverH > needs charging from outside, that would be the fabled perpetual motion
 > machine.  H No, they are just hybrids. Not a new concept. Almost all trains in northM america use that principle: diesel engine that drives a generator that drivess) an electric motor that drives the wheels.a  G However, I do not beleive that the current hybrids make use of the besteJ advantage of electric propulsion: no need for a transmission, hence weightJ savings. That is one of the big advantages for diesel electric locomotivesM since they put the electric motors directly on the bogies to drive the wheelsmK and no need for a fancy articulated transmission between the locomotive andt the bogies.y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:04:13 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?4 Message-ID: <wJSS6.244667$Z2.2780941@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3b1be9c2$1@news.si.com...F > >Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate the  > >electricity somewhere.t >?F > GM has recently developed a battery/electric motor pair that doesn't require > > recharging the batteries by plugging them in somewhere.  The
 batteries arerD > constantly being recharged.  It was on the news this morning.  Who knows if) > it will every be used in an automobile.t  A Trying to stay away from this thread but; Honda already has theiro version on the market. It is ataF http://english.honda.ca/models/insight.asp, part of the page says "TheE future of cars is here. It's the Honda Insight. North America's firsteB gasoline - electric hybrid automobile. And it's nothing short of aE technological breakthrough. It offers an incredible 3.2 litres/100 kmoD on the highway, 3.9 litres/100 km in the city and an unheard of 1250B km range on one tank of fuel. The Insight is also designed to meetE California's stringent Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV) standard. So C it not only performs well on the road but also on the environment."v  D I'll leave it to someone else to translate 3.2 l/100 KM to American.C I'm seriously considering this as my next car, but the local dealertF says every one they get in goes right out the door to a customer. IIRC* there is a 8 month waiting list currently.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:29:15 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>02 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1BFD9D.118E05F6@videotron.ca>   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:nI > See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children withlM > the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another babyr= > in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus.y  J Funnyt how , outside the USA, families have no problems with regular sizedE cars, and it is only in the USA that families require oversized cars.a   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 14:51:53 -0700i1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <wr5PK3vkM3PT@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  % In article <3b1be9c2$1@news.si.com>, t@    "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:  I >>Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate them >>electricity somewhere. > N > GM has recently developed a battery/electric motor pair that doesn't requireL > recharging the batteries by plugging them in somewhere.  The batteries areM > constantly being recharged.  It was on the news this morning.  Who knows ifv) > it will every be used in an automobile.g     A perpetual motion machine?c  9   What is the energy source that recharges the batteries?t  K   There's been hype about fuel cells for electric vehicles. They argue thatrH since they run on hydrogen we'll never run out of fuel for them. I don'tI see a lot of free hydrogen floating around here though - how do they plan:F to get it? They could separate it from water ( which there's plenty ofC in the oceans ) through electrolysis - but what energy source woulde they use for that?   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 15:04:52 -0700a1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <FHjZUR936p9p@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  4 In article <qCrTXaqbhAyr@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 8    malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) writes: > J > SUV's also encompase a wide range of vehicles, that range from the largeL > four wheel drives to what is basically a small car with a large cargo area > in the rear.  F     My first "SUV" was an AWD Toyota Corolla Wagon. It easily got over 30MPG.  0 >  The small ones can get very good gas mileage. >   L     There are also a lot of non-SUV vehicles which get bad gas mileage, suchI as full-size sedans and "performance" cars. SUVs don't appear to have anyuD worse gas mileage than the comparably sized station wagons they haveC displaced from the market, but they've been put on the politically  D incorrect list so one can expect a lot of mindless prattle about how' evil the people who drive them must be.a     I > Of course there are some resource hogging examples out there, but there J > are a lot of people with SUVs that actually need their features, and the< > SUV is the most economical vehicle to do the job for them. > I > See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children withcM > the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another babyu= > in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus.f >   :    And then try to tow a trailer behind that small car :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 15:07:14 -0700e1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <KvXAav+2i+Jl@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3B1BFD9D.118E05F6@videotron.ca>, r2    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:nJ >> See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children withN >> the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another baby> >> in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus. > L > Funnyt how , outside the USA, families have no problems with regular sizedG > cars, and it is only in the USA that families require oversized cars.t  B    Don't let his email address fool you, JF obviously hasn't spent  much time in Canada recently :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:17:06 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>w2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1C08D0.A186FD8E@videotron.ca>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote:M >   There's been hype about fuel cells for electric vehicles. They argue thatrJ > since they run on hydrogen we'll never run out of fuel for them. I don'tK > see a lot of free hydrogen floating around here though - how do they plan H > to get it? They could separate it from water ( which there's plenty ofE > in the oceans ) through electrolysis - but what energy source wouldo > they use for that?  M Cheap abundant hydro electric power from Qubec. Qubec would become the OPEC  of hydrogen :-) :-) :-)-    M The beauty of hydrogen is that it can be transported fairly cheaply on trainsnM etc, whereas it costs to transport electricity over great distances (loss dues% to resistance on transmission lines).t  E With battery electric cars, you need the electric generating capacityeK relatively close to the consumers. But with hydrogen, like with petrol, thei source can be fairly distant.i  J Note that with fuel cells, you need both hydrogen and oxygen tanks. With aM hydrogen "combustion" car, you only need to transport hydrogen and you have arK more conventional combustion piston engine with steam as the output (oxygeni taken from air).  K From a global environmental point of view, fuel cells are better since theyPL take water, separate H2 and O2, and then those two are recombined in the carK to produce water again. But with hydrogen production, you steal O2 from thenK air at the car location (reducing air quality), and dump O2 at the hydrogen0 generating facility.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 15:25:55 -0700n1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)72 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <B03RWPB7EzZB@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3B1C08D0.A186FD8E@videotron.ca>, c1   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:d > O > Cheap abundant hydro electric power from Qubec. Qubec would become the OPEC  > of hydrogen :-) :-) :-)  >   J     Until the first nations that claim Hydro Quebec has flooded their land: win their court cases and make them take the dams down :-)  G     How many more dams would be required to get the energy the hydrogen0E production plants would require? How much more land would that flood?r. How long do the dams last before they silt up?   > M > From a global environmental point of view, fuel cells are better since theysN > take water, separate H2 and O2, and then those two are recombined in the carM > to produce water again. But with hydrogen production, you steal O2 from theoM > air at the car location (reducing air quality), and dump O2 at the hydrogenn > generating facility.  M    From a "global" point of view aren't both equal, one system just localizesh the effect more.  N    Why would you dump the O2 at the facility? It would be a valuable commodity  you could put in tanks and sell.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:49:50 -0500 0 From: Patrick Spinler <spinler.patrick@mayo.edu>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?( Message-ID: <3B1C108E.410E4AF7@mayo.edu>   JF Mezei wrote:h > F > Note that with fuel cells, you need both hydrogen and oxygen tanks.  >   > Um, actually, many modern fuel cells get their oxygen from the atmosphere as well.    See for example F http://www.daimlerchrysler.de/index_e.htm?/news/top/t90317_e.htm, or  $ http://216.51.18.233/fct/index.html.  F It's interesting to note that many modern fuel cells also get hydrogenH by reforming more complex hydrocarbons like methanol, LP, or gasoline atD the location of the fuel cell.  Thus, they don't have to worry aboutD putting a hydrogen infrastructure in place, or large, heavy hydrogen tanks for mobile applications.   -- Pat   -- e?       This message does not represent the policies or positionso1 	     of the Mayo Foundation or its subsidiaries.f3   Patrick Spinler			email:	Spinler.Patrick@Mayo.EDUo'   Mayo Foundation			phone:	507/284-9485    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:14:37 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <009FD0A2.4BC61A43@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3B1BD638.693D281F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:" >steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: >> rG >> Which I presume is the reason that Alistair Cooke in his Letter fromaK >> America a few weeks ago was relating the fact that some of the blackoutsM >> have been around mid-day. h > I >Because electricity distributors in Kalifornia have not signed long termrO >supply contracts, they have to buy electricity at the last minute. This is theiF >same as buying an airplane ticket at the last minute. VERY expensive  E Indeed.  This has something to do with the 'deregulation' legislationrH prohibiting them to buy futures contracts, for fear that they'd lock in I long term high rates.  (This was based on the idea that natural gas wouldnJ be cheap forever; Texas suppliers of natural gas have quadrupled the price because they can.)  J The legislation also required that distributors sell off at least some of I their generating capacity (in hopes of stimulating competition that wouldaJ result in cheaper energy).  Pacific Gas & Electric wasn't required to sell2 off _all_ its capacity, but chose to do so anyway.  F [There appear to have been a series of massive, stupid, self-inflictedJ injuries, driven by the idea that deregulation is inevitably a good thing.K For example, as soon as the legislation passed, electricity bills went down K by 10%, which was a bond-financed reduction that they could do because, uh,cN deregulation will make it enough cheaper that we can pay the bond back later.]   >sI >Consider that many of the producers of electricity are owned by the samenO >company that distributes the electricity to households. Guess who profits whensG >the distributor buys power on the spot markets at exhorbitant prices ?m  N Yes; the PG&E company that sells power to households is going bankrupt (havingO declined a state bailout that would have involved selling off its power lines);.J the holding company that owns it is having the best year of its existence.   -- Alan.    O ===============================================================================t0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-30560M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210[O ===============================================================================r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:02:06 -0400b2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406012202060001@user-2ivecih.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B1BF1B8.87309622@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeie% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:h   > Robert Deininger wrote:aM > > But not in California.  The (completely misnamed) "deregulation" law madelI > > the distribution companies sell their generating facilities.  It also.( > > forbad long-term contract for power. > C > What was the logic behind forbidding long term supply contracts ?   J At the time of the law, prices were low.  Some of the utilities could haveI locked in very favorable prices, and that was deemed too profitable.  Now  the situation is reversed.  J The state of California has recently changed the law to allow the state toI enter into long-term contracts, which avoids the worst of the spot-marketmB prices for peak power.  The private utilities still can't do this, however.  J > I know that Hydro Qubec has sold some very long term contracts to nerbyI > states (New York, Vermont and I think New Hampshire) at very low rates.i  I We appreciate it.  :-)  Seriously, if you have excess power, and the damslJ are already built, it's best to use the hydro power before anything else. J The northwest hasn't had enough rain and snow, so their dams aren't full. + That's contributing to the California woes.   B There are two aspects to the long-term contracts.  Generators likeI long-term contracts for their low-cost power.  That's the power they wantrJ to sell first, last, and always.  They want to guarantee a market for this power.  H Expensive (natural gas, fuel oil) power isn't so good for the generatorsH to commit in advance.  This is the power that's only produced when thereH isn't enough of the cheap stuff.  They expect to charge a premium duringJ the relatively rare periods when they produce this power.  Also, they haveD trouble predicting the price of the fuels in advance, so fixed-price# long-term contracts are very risky.e  I For the utility companies (power distributers), the situation is somewhatoE reversed.  They'd like to stabilize the price of their most expensive  power purchases far in advance.t   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:05:16 -050001 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1C3E5C.7A09A35F@fsi.net>F   JF Mezei wrote:r > [snip]O > The current lifestyle is not sustainable. Some changes to it must be made forsS > it to be sustainable. The more you wait, the greater the changes will have to be.i  8 Re-worded slightly, one could say the same of OpenVMS...   -- m David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:15:57 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406012215580001@user-2ivecih.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B1BF770.390CFC10@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeii% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:t  $ > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > > N > > But the energy to recharge the batteries is still being generated, it justK > > so happens the source is being carried around with the batteries. TheregO > > must be some additional element here somewhere though. If the batteries arenJ > > powering the motor that's charging the batteries, and the system neverJ > > needs charging from outside, that would be the fabled perpetual motion > > machine. > J > No, they are just hybrids. Not a new concept. Almost all trains in northO > america use that principle: diesel engine that drives a generator that drives + > an electric motor that drives the wheels.  > I > However, I do not beleive that the current hybrids make use of the best L > advantage of electric propulsion: no need for a transmission, hence weightL > savings. That is one of the big advantages for diesel electric locomotivesO > since they put the electric motors directly on the bogies to drive the wheels M > and no need for a fancy articulated transmission between the locomotive and 
 > the bogies.h  J Maybe someone who really knows trains will chime in, but I will add my two cents.    I Hybrid propulsion systems probably aren't very fuel efficient compared tolF straight diesels.  A freight train needs engines with HUGE torque whenJ starting up, but needs to get up to high speed as well. I think this wouldE be hard to do with a transmission - conventional ones would turn intoaD twisted lumps from the load of a locomotive.  I think electic motorsI handle the range of loads better, and avoid the need for a transmission.  G A tranmission is probably possible, but it would be very big and heavy.   H I don't seem the same advantage for a hybrid car.  It's almost certainlyF less energy efficient than a gas one.  One of the good things about anJ electric car is the NIMBY effect -- the pollution is at the power plant inI Nevada, not in LA.  A hybrid retains some of this advantage (maybe).  YousI burn gas to charge up out in the suburbs, and don't burn much fuel in thew inner city??  F One of the reasons these cars are starting to sell is that some statesF require a certain percentage of a company's offerings to be "ultra-lowF emission".  The car makers may take a loss on these hybrids; otherwise; they wouldn't be allowed to sell any new cars in the state.    -- : Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:19:47 -0400s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406012219470001@user-2ivecih.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B1BFD9D.118E05F6@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeit% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e   > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:pK > > See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children withwO > > the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another babym? > > in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus.g > L > Funnyt how , outside the USA, families have no problems with regular sizedG > cars, and it is only in the USA that families require oversized cars.l  H We do a lot more driving than is typical in Europe.  I suspect you folksF in CA do also.  Distances are much bigger here.  In several ways, what. works in Europe doesn't necessarily work here.  G I'm fairly tall, and I simply can't fit safely in a compact car.  I canc? fit in, but after any length of time the discomfort is just too-J distracting.  Visibility also stinks in many small cars -- the windows areF too low.  I simply won't buy an underpowered, uncomfortable car that I can't see out of very well.-   -- j Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:33:25 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406012233260001@user-2ivecih.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B1C08D0.A186FD8E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeil% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    > Malcolm Dunnett wrote:O > >   There's been hype about fuel cells for electric vehicles. They argue thattL > > since they run on hydrogen we'll never run out of fuel for them. I don'tM > > see a lot of free hydrogen floating around here though - how do they plansJ > > to get it? They could separate it from water ( which there's plenty ofG > > in the oceans ) through electrolysis - but what energy source wouldw > > they use for that? > O > Cheap abundant hydro electric power from Qubec. Qubec would become the OPECe > of hydrogen :-) :-) :-)  >  > O > The beauty of hydrogen is that it can be transported fairly cheaply on trainscO > etc, whereas it costs to transport electricity over great distances (loss due ' > to resistance on transmission lines).o  J Don't you folks have any safety standards for explosive gasses?  I've beenJ involved in shipping small quantities of hydrogen, and it's a nightmare of	 red tape.a  J If we replaced all our gasoline tankers with liquid hydrogen tankers, we'd4 see a lot of spectacular explosions on the highways.  C You can transport hydrogen safely by adsorbing it in an appropriatetD metal.  You don't have high pressures to deal with.  But most of theD weight would be non-hydrogen, and metals that are good at soaking up hydrogen are not cheap..  G Large-scale transportation of H2 doesn't look either simple or cheap tos me.  What's your secret.  oG > With battery electric cars, you need the electric generating capacityiM > relatively close to the consumers. But with hydrogen, like with petrol, theo > source can be fairly distant.p > F > Note that with fuel cells, you need both hydrogen and oxygen tanks.   G There are fuel cells that work with hydrogen and atmospheric oxygen.  Ii8 don't think there are any particularly cheap fuel cells.  F Oxygen tanks are a nightmare.  I don't think we'll see general-purposeJ cars carrying around oxygen anytime soon.  Many metals and lubricants willG easily (or spontaneously) ignite in the presence of pure O2, generatingc? more heat in the process.  Kaboom!  Pressure waves induced by aeE rapidly-closing valve have been known to produce enough heat to startvF combustion in O2 systems.  O2 transport is part science and part black magic.  Don't try this at home!h   > With aO > hydrogen "combustion" car, you only need to transport hydrogen and you have aoM > more conventional combustion piston engine with steam as the output (oxygena > taken from air).  @ If it burns at resonably high temperatures, you'll still get theC nitrogen-based pollutants as by-products.  NO and NO2 aren't directtE products of gasoline combustion; they just show up when N2 and O2 aret together in a hot place.  M > From a global environmental point of view, fuel cells are better since theyiN > take water, separate H2 and O2, and then those two are recombined in the car > to produce water again.i  J But electolysis isn't very efficient.  You spend a lot more separating theJ water into H2 and O2 than you get back in useful energy in the fuel cell. 1 It's ok with super-cheap electricity, like hydro.v  5 > But with hydrogen production, you steal O2 from theaM > air at the car location (reducing air quality), and dump O2 at the hydrogen  > generating facility.  E Oxygen deprivation isn't usually considered a problem, unless you areeC running your car in the garage.  The amount of O2 used isn't reallyd$ significant in an outdoor situation.   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:50:43 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0406012250430001@user-2ivecih.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <009FD0A2.4BC61A43@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,% winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:s  7 > In article <3B1BD638.693D281F@videotron.ca>, JF MezeiQ& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:$ > >steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: > >> aI > >> Which I presume is the reason that Alistair Cooke in his Letter from M > >> America a few weeks ago was relating the fact that some of the blackoutsd > >> have been around mid-day.   > >cK > >Because electricity distributors in Kalifornia have not signed long term J > >supply contracts, they have to buy electricity at the last minute. This is theH > >same as buying an airplane ticket at the last minute. VERY expensive > G > Indeed.  This has something to do with the 'deregulation' legislationhJ > prohibiting them to buy futures contracts, for fear that they'd lock in K > long term high rates.  (This was based on the idea that natural gas would L > be cheap forever; Texas suppliers of natural gas have quadrupled the price > because they can.)  F The gas market is pretty open.  Crude oil has more than doubled in theF last couple of years.  Natural gas necessarily follows crude prices toF some extent.  Also, there aren't enough pipelines to get gas into CA. I That's causing a supply crunch, so what does get in costs extra.  NaturalsD gas is generally one of the most expensive was to make electricity. I That's ok if you only use if for the last few percent of peak demand, butc/ CA's other sources haven't kept up with demand.r  F If you don't like the natural gas from Texas, feel free to buy it fromE somewhere else.  Is Wyoming selling you gas at much lower prices thantE Texas?  Texas-basing seems popular in CA these days, but not terriblysB fair.  If you really think there's a killing to be made in the gasH business, most of the companies are publicly traded.  Go for it.  But beE ready for the lean years, when there's been too much exploration, the F summers are cool, the winters are warm, and OPEC opens up the spiggot.  A CA has set the retail price of electricity by law.  That price istJ currently below the market price, so a shortage is absolutely guaranteed. I If you'd let the retail price go to market levels, the shortage would end-G very quickly.  Folks would use less juice, until net demand fell to the@E amount that can be supplied at prices people were willing to pay.  It:J would cause some pain, and poor folks might need some subsidies to get by,E but the shortage would end. As you gradually build up your generating,J capacity, prices will come down on their own.  The current scheme seems toJ promise maximum inconvenience and very high costs.  The only way to reduceH demand in the short term is to let the price increase.  Economists can'tI promise much, but there's no getting around the law of supply and demand.d    L > The legislation also required that distributors sell off at least some of K > their generating capacity (in hopes of stimulating competition that wouldlL > result in cheaper energy).  Pacific Gas & Electric wasn't required to sell4 > off _all_ its capacity, but chose to do so anyway. > H > [There appear to have been a series of massive, stupid, self-inflictedL > injuries, driven by the idea that deregulation is inevitably a good thing.M > For example, as soon as the legislation passed, electricity bills went down M > by 10%, which was a bond-financed reduction that they could do because, uh,hP > deregulation will make it enough cheaper that we can pay the bond back later.]  I Politicians like to hand out money in the short term.  That 10% reduction C looked good at the time of the election, I bet.  It also inevitablynG increased demand above what it would have been.  Politicians can fiddleaF with the price of a commodity, but they can't really control the COST.  J They did the same thing here in New York a couple of years ago.  The stateF took over the power company, turned all the private debt into tax-freeJ municiple debt at lower rates, stopped paying income tax, got a $1 billionI capital-gains tax waiver pushed through congress, and mailed out "rebate"yJ checks to arrive just before election.  Now the utility is creeping towardE insolvency, raising rates (they're now exempt from utility commission > oversite) and wondering how to finance new construction.  Doh!   -- t Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:56:37 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>A2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1C4A65.AA335F5B@fsi.net>A   JF Mezei wrote:S >  > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:lK > > See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children withyO > > the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another baby=? > > in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus.= > L > Funnyt how , outside the USA, families have no problems with regular sizedG > cars, and it is only in the USA that families require oversized cars.   G The countries of Lichtenstein(sp?) and Luxembourg are smaller than someu Chicago suburbs!  F Families don't *require* "oversized" cars, they just want to feel safe? and that they can accelerate and merge safely onto the highway.o   --   David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:20:13 +0100a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>l2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?) Message-ID: <3B1B991D.FF77368D@bbc.co.uk>v   JF Mezei wrote:   : >   Bicycles however are great for transportation and they > keep you in shape.  8 Bicycles are great when the weather is fine and you have no baggage, period.y     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofc MedAS or the BBC.C   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:12:40 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1C4E27.16E3896F@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote: H > too low.  I simply won't buy an underpowered, uncomfortable car that I > can't see out of very well.t  K Why have car manufacturers had such an easy time convincing males that theyy need an overpowered car ?   N I still recall a Volkswagen ad showing two ways to reach 240km/h (drop one carL from a cliff, or buy they new model VW). Considering that the speed limit inL most of Canada is 100 km/h (except a few places where it is 110), I considerN that any advertising that incites a driver to go beyond the speed limit should be made illegal.  Q I do not buy arguments that you need to accelerate from 0 to 100kms in 6 seconds.n  J A lot of fuel would be saved if men didn't feel that they needed to have a, powerful car to overcome other shortcomings.  C As a cyclist, I laugh at those males that try to impress females by-N accelerating so fast to make their tires smoke and make lots of noise. "Wow" IM say, they have enough of a muscle to move their foot on teh accelerator. Whats sport !    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 23:24 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <4JUN200123240909@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...p }Robert Deininger wrote:L }> But not in California.  The (completely misnamed) "deregulation" law madeH }> the distribution companies sell their generating facilities.  It also' }> forbad long-term contract for power.i } B }What was the logic behind forbidding long term supply contracts ?  = It's California. It's pretty much completely devoid of logic.    --- Carl  C P.S. In spite of your constant pointless complaingin about them andnB      claims to the contrary, not everyone in the US has an SUV. InF      fact, the vast majority of the population does not own one, leaseB      one, or rent one. Most people couldn't afford to buy one even      if they wanted to.o   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2001 23:41 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)p2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <4JUN200123413509@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes... B }Trying to stay away from this thread but; Honda already has their  }version on the market. It is atG }http://english.honda.ca/models/insight.asp, part of the page says "ThehF }future of cars is here. It's the Honda Insight. North America's firstC }gasoline - electric hybrid automobile. And it's nothing short of adF }technological breakthrough. It offers an incredible 3.2 litres/100 kmE }on the highway, 3.9 litres/100 km in the city and an unheard of 1250gC }km range on one tank of fuel. The Insight is also designed to meet F }California's stringent Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV) standard. SoD }it not only performs well on the road but also on the environment." } E }I'll leave it to someone else to translate 3.2 l/100 KM to American.tD }I'm seriously considering this as my next car, but the local dealerG }says every one they get in goes right out the door to a customer. IIRC + }there is a 8 month waiting list currently.o  9 The 3.2 liters per 100 km is about 73.5 miles per gallon,w9 the 3.9 l/100 km is about 60.3 mpg, and the 1250 km rangei is nearly 777 miles.  > If they want to make them more desireable, clearly they should make a hybrid SUV.     --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.309 ************************, and avoid the need for a trazqgh|Źg	&	ChJj]z)QvWo(::#9X, 0200100
0020110375199706122708320360!   BSEG      s  
  
P@ !S!1@ȑF'V81`̸QCF%
4\ 3̚/Ԕɣ"qЉhM0t(ӕa4(ӫEjʲׯ`ÊK֫#Be IKwl[u+_X@`ъb!~Z4j
#H$5ހzwSDCcYg!$ΙA>1:ilEv^%߭{{><*綳m'Tk/rԱ%;g^Ne^nTʫ_ov˟ߖqO~MGZt_uDY$5x7@a!J!L<F<v '`,袁-)V[S42IQY