1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 05 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 310       Contents:, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun# Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # RE: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging  Re: alphastation 200 4/233( Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?! Re: Any DECforms users out there? 7 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?  Re: Backup to CD? 2 Re: Can the MIME tool in 7.2-1 be non-interactive?H Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)H Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)! Re: Charon-VAX hobbyist, not back ' Re: CHARON-VAX: Help/mess does not work 
 Disk statsP Free Downloads, Wallpapers, Games, Eroticgames, Handy-Logos and much more moremo' Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui + RE: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui + RE: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui + Re: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui + Re: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui < Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st< RE: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st- Re: IRCD DECC$GLOG_2 multiply defined problem  Re: JRE.DMP 6 Re: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it.( Maximum number of LUNs on a SCSI channel MultiNet and ActiveDirectory ? Other way to init tf86D Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in London2 Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas2 Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas2 Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas# QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"? # QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"?  RZ28-E dead? select() on non-sockets  Re: select() on non-sockets  Re: select() on non-sockets  Re: select() on non-sockets  Re: select() on non-sockets  Re: select() on non-sockets 6 Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options6 Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options% Re: Some more bits looking for a home  Re: srm and unexpected crd4 Re: Tape compression factor (was: Re: Backup to CD?) Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  time_string function: Re: User sued by DEC, was: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations Virtual Memory problem Re: Virtual Memory problem Re: Virtual Memory problem VMS Cluster Password Question." Re: VMS Cluster Password Question." Re: VMS Cluster Password Question.9 Who gets blamed for faulty software (was: A New Twist...) ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:47:58 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun * Message-ID: <3B1CAACE.AC7A261C@uk.sun.com>   Christof Brass wrote:  >  > andrew harrison wrote: > >  > > Christof Brass wrote:  >  > [SNIP] > F > > > Very simple: praxis. If we look around what we pay for computingD > > > power delivered at screen, keyboard and mouse there is nothingB > > > which led us buy any SUN product. I'm not talking about some= > > > benchmarks, I'm talking about what our applications and E > > > customers see at delivered computing power. And the price range D > > > for the UltraSPARC III processor is simply spoken illusionary. > > ; > > Itf that is really your criteria for selecting a system + > > then why do you continue to buy Alphas?  > ? > Because they run VMS - in case you might have forgotten this: $ > the name of the NG is comp.os.VMS.  0 So in fact your previous response was bullshit. / Performance isn't a criteria you even consider  / when you select a new machine. You select it on 0 its ability to run OpenVMS. Why did you bluster - on about UltraSPARC and Alpha, the only Alpha - feature you are interested is its ability to   support OpenVMS.   > 9 > > On actual applications benchmarks like SAP and Oracle < > > apps Alphas have in the past and do currently suck rocks> > > both in terms of actual performance and in terms of price,( > > with the sole exception of the ES40. > A > As I said: performance of ES40 is exceptional - and that's what  > we and our customers need. >   8 Rubbish, Compaqs customers need a broad range of servers7 which are competitive in terms of price performance not 7 a product range that consists of 1 competitive product.   9 The fact that not every computing requirement can be met  7 by the ES40 should be obvious even to you. Having price 5 turkeys or performance and price turkeys in the rest  8 of the range below and above the ES40 is hardly helpfull8 to people like you who profess to be OpenVMS supporters.   <Snip>   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:08:53 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun * Message-ID: <3B1CAFB5.7C704B2F@uk.sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote:  > C > In article <3B177CC4.E0BB99C3@uk.sun.com>, Andrew harrison wrote:  >  > [snip] > - > > From a workstation standpoint Compaq seem , > > unable to build any form of AlphaStation2 > > that can compete price wise with a SunBlade1006 > > and while it may not be as fast as the lowest cost5 > > D machine its bigger brother the SunBlade 1000 is * > > and it is also very price competitive. > : > So you call $10,000 (and then the rest) for the SunBlade > 1000 very price competitive? >  > That's indeed interesting. >   6 It is when you compare it with what Compaq would offer4 for that price. It is of course much more expensive 5 than the SunBlade100 but then most RISC workstations   are.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:23:31 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun * Message-ID: <3B1CB323.FFD5595F@uk.sun.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > ? > "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message & > news:3B177CC4.E0BB99C3@uk.sun.com... > >  > > Christof Brass wrote:  > > >  > > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > > >  > > > > It was written...  > > > > * > > > > > > > Sun buying Compaq, unlikely. > > > > > > I > > > > > > Why not ? Sun would be able to cannabalise Compaq's microsoft  > alliances  > > > > and N > > > > > > operations and focus on *real* enterprise solutions. It would be a > major  > > > > kickN > > > > > > in the ass to Bill Gates since Compaq would then become a rival to > > > > Microsoft. > > > > > > L > > > > > > Sun would gain access to Alpha which it could market (and use on	 > its own L > > > > > > systems) and show a clear lead in technology over those that are > based 
 > > > > on0 > > > > > > Intel's delayed 64 bit architecture. > > > > J > > > > Truth be told, Digital ported Solaris to Alpha back in the mid-90s	 > just to K > > > > prove it could be done. And there were 1995 backchannel discussions 	 > between M > > > > the two vendors re: Digital adopting--and enhancing--Solaris, and Sun  > > > > adopting Alpha.  > > > E > > > This really makes sense. The UltraSPARC is ultra slow and ultra B > > > expensive. I don't know if there is a chip around with lower > > > performance/price ratio. > > >  > > 1 > > Really and how did you reach this interesting $ > > but unsupportable conclusion ??? > 8 > It wasn't T. Shannon who reached the above conclusion! >   / I don't think I suggested it was you, Christof  - was the culprit. My appologies if you thought  this was aimed at you. > > 2 > > As you know perfectly well the opposite is the/ > > case, UltraSPARC isn't ultra slow and it is  > > also not ultra expensive.  > L > UltraSparc is neither ultraslow nor ultraexpensive. But there sure as hell8 > aren't many of the UltraSparc III chips available yet. >  > > 6 > > If you are looking for the holder of the UltraSlow7 > > UltraExpensive titles you need look no further than  > > the Alpha. >  > UltraExpensive? Yep. > G > UltraSlow? Andrew, Andrew, Andrew... your credibility gap is showing!  >   0 UltraSlow, yes, the WildFire boxes are abjectly . slow compared with IBM, HP, Fujitsu and Sun's 1 current machines. TPC-C, TPC-H, Oracle Apps there / is virtually no large server measure that they   lead on.  . UltraBusiness as usual, this has been the case for the last 5 years.   / UltraMarketing, Compaq only want to talk about  . SPECint and SPECfp, without them they have no  performance story.  . UltraSad, this was also the case with Alpha/NT- could be one reason why Alpha on NT wasn't a  / great sucess. You have real difficulty selling  - a box as a performance leader in a commodity  ( market when you cannot demonstrate that . performance leadership using any measure that + the market you are selling into places any   credance on.     > > - > > From a workstation standpoint Compaq seem , > > unable to build any form of AlphaStation2 > > that can compete price wise with a SunBlade1006 > > and while it may not be as fast as the lowest cost5 > > D machine its bigger brother the SunBlade 1000 is * > > and it is also very price competitive. > $ > That is a very credible statement. >  > > 3 > > In the server space Compaq have one competitive 6 > > system the ES40 which keeps the rest from sinking. > > 5 > > But above it the GS160/320 have proven themselves ' > > to be overpriced and under powered.  >  > Your opinion.  >   - Not really, there have been a number of posts 5 on this group lamenting the general uncompetitiveness 8 of the AlphaServer range with the exception of the ES40.  J > And things are gonna get much worse for the GS-Series on July 7 when theJ > 1GHz model is announced. It is hideously underpowered. A 1GHz GS320 will > deliver only 230K tpmC.  > < > That's a terrible number! After all, Sun can do 300K tpmC. >   1 Actually it isn't good enough. It won't beat IBMs 1 Regatta when it comes out and the USIII machines  , from Sun will also make it look pretty poor.  / It might allow Compaq to take the single system / TPC-C TPM title for a few weeks, though Fujitsu , could also beat the number now if they felt  like it.     Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jun 2001 14:40:32 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun - Message-ID: <87r8wzqvj3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   " Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> writes:    C > And I heard around that time that they'd even got CICS running on $ > Alpha as a proof of concept thing.  E Go find the old red VMS SW cats. In there you will find not only CICS  for VMS, but DB2 as well.   F If half the stuff in them was available now for VMS, we'd be laughing.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:42:08 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> 5 Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EE9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]     0 > UltraSad, this was also the case with Alpha/NT/ > could be one reason why Alpha on NT wasn't a  1 > great sucess. You have real difficulty selling  / > a box as a performance leader in a commodity  * > market when you cannot demonstrate that 0 > performance leadership using any measure that - > the market you are selling into places any   > credance on.  F Well, I'm not going to argue high-end performance numbers, but this isK somewhat off. :)  Alpha NT was unsuccessful because NT is trash.  You don't K buy very expensive cars, and scratch "killroy was here" in the paint with a I chisel, or plant flowers in them.  You don't buy a nice telescope so that H you can take it to some sporting event.  You don't punch holes through aK hundred year old violin -- and you don't run NT on a good computer.  It's a > complete waste.  I believe that's the reason NT on Alpha died.  H I may, of course, be wrong, and feel free to trash your good violins andJ plant flowers in your Ferraris if you like, or to run NT on your computer. I won't do it. :)    Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:30:49 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun = Message-ID: <ZO7T6.22060$zl5.7086026@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   8 "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageF news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EE9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com... > > -----Original Message-----; > > From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]  >  > 2 > > UltraSad, this was also the case with Alpha/NT0 > > could be one reason why Alpha on NT wasn't a2 > > great sucess. You have real difficulty selling0 > > a box as a performance leader in a commodity+ > > market when you cannot demonstrate that 1 > > performance leadership using any measure that . > > the market you are selling into places any > > credance on. > H > Well, I'm not going to argue high-end performance numbers, but this isG > somewhat off. :)  Alpha NT was unsuccessful because NT is trash.  You  don't K > buy very expensive cars, and scratch "killroy was here" in the paint with  a K > chisel, or plant flowers in them.  You don't buy a nice telescope so that J > you can take it to some sporting event.  You don't punch holes through aK > hundred year old violin -- and you don't run NT on a good computer.  It's  aC@ > complete waste.  I believe that's the reason NT on Alpha died. >"  K AlphaNT died because of the Compaqtion of Digital. Prior to the Compaqtion,eE NT was shipping on ~20 percent of Alpha systems, and on a much higheroJ proportion of low-end systems. Six months post-Compaqtion, NT was shippingL on fewer than 2 percent of Alphas... nowhere near enough to justify a >$100M< per annum development program. Hence Compaq pulled the plug.  K Why the precipitous decline? Easy. Compaq sent mixed messages--none of them F reassuring--about the fate and future of Alpha. And the Compaq Classic$ salesforce was clueless about Alpha.   And that's the way it was.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:47:29 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> 5 Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EEA@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@mediaone.net]m  > > AlphaNT died because of the Compaqtion of Digital. Prior to  > the Compaqtion,iG > NT was shipping on ~20 percent of Alpha systems, and on a much higher @ > proportion of low-end systems. Six months post-Compaqtion, NT  > was shipping> > on fewer than 2 percent of Alphas... nowhere near enough to  > justify a >$100M> > per annum development program. Hence Compaq pulled the plug.  L It says something that they only had to ignore it for six months to kill it.+ How long have they been trying to kill VMS?f  L Still perhaps the market was saturated?  There can't be that many people whoJ would actually be smart enough to want an Alpha, but stupid enough to want NT. :) a  @ (Note that the above is clearly saturated with personal opinion)  7 > Why the precipitous decline? Easy. Compaq sent mixed d > messages--none of themH > reassuring--about the fate and future of Alpha. And the Compaq Classic& > salesforce was clueless about Alpha.   > And that's the way it was.  I You may as well say "that's the way it is."  At this point, I still doubt - most compaq salesthings are very cluefull. :)o   Regards,   Chriso  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developero Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");i 'o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:41:31 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>d5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun 3 Message-ID: <XQ8T6.1049$fi2.27933@news.cpqcorp.net>h  : Bill Todd wrote in message <9fbamv$6f1$1@pyrite.mv.net>... >  > I >To the best of my recollection, it wasn't the people running the projects whoyI >kept things relatively closed as much as it was the rest of the company,t dueeL >to fears that a $3K - $5K full-fledged PDP-11 would drastically cannibalizeH >what was still a very large portion of DEC's bread-and-butter business. AndaI >these decisions were made pretty early in the game:  when the demand youvK >describe above became clear, F-11 and J-11 PDP-11s actually did appear notMG >that long after the PRO (though still at 2 - 4 times the price, IIRC).  >]    L It would be nice to say that, but the Pro group was the my first engineeringL job after comming in from the NY software services organization.  There wereI a bunch of stupid decisions made, by some people who appeared to be quiteoL smart.  I made a number of, ah, non-friends at the time by pointing out justL how stupid a few of their decisions were.  It wasn't just the people outside# the Pro group making bad decisions.   K The true shame is, at about the time we were working on the Pro, Apple camesK out with the Lisa.  A lot of people, including some like Gordon Bell - saidoL "this" is what we should be building.  What we ended up with was... ah...  aK crippled RSX system with the most absurd menu system ever devised.  Despite J having done a few neat things.  The user interface was neither "just gimmeI RSX with MCR or DCL" - which the existing customers wanted - or a useableo  GUI that anyone else would want.  K On the other hand, VMS gave the customer just what they wanted with VWS.  AO7 fast, multi-terminal window system.  Not much of a GUI.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:42:12 +0100]% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> , Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10008 Message-ID: <9bdpht4cjtmpbtj85vjqfrtm9etda0pgju@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:57:13 -0500, "Main, Kerry"D <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote:   >Fwiw, >JH >I agree 100% with John. The issue is usually not whether it is VMS, butI >rather the lack of standards in the way auto-negotiation works with manyO7 >older and different switch and NIC vendor's equipment.c  D And I don't agree. Yes I agree the standards are not... but the fact@ is that I, and many others, have discovered that our VMS systemsB *usually* have problems with auto-negotiate (cisco, 3com,  netgearA switches) and most of our other equipment doesn't (or very rarelypA does). Whatever the reason switches seem to always auto-negotiatetE correctly with cards in NT machines. To the best of my knowledge thiss( doesn't alter with the firmware version.  C Bottom line: Plug in an NT box and it works at 100FD. Plug in a VMSeD box and your network performance is likely to be highly erratic withE the default settings. Wherever the problem lies I don't think this is @ very good. I understand that the standards for auto negotiate onF Gigabit ethernet have been tightened considerably but I don't have one! in a VMS system yet to test this.     K >Best advice for a mixed and/or an environment with older network equipment K >having these issues is usually "work with the network support resources in J >your oraganization to determine if the NICs should be set to 100MB, FD at1 >the same time as the switch is set to 100Mb FD."  >f >Regards >  >Kerry Mainu >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Inc.a >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036s >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.coml >, >e >-----Original Message----- E >From: malmberg@encompasserve.org [mailto:malmberg@encompasserve.org]p >Sent: June 4, 2001 11:24 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000  >  >h+ >In article <3B1966F7.4AD9383A@virgin.net>,o, >Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.network> writes: >> >> John Santos wrote:o >>C >> However, I don't think it negotiates full/half duplex correctly.n >>G >>> Under heavy load, DECnet logs lots of "alignment" and "frame check"rJ >>> errors to OPCOM.  Either setting the ew?0_mode to FastHD or explicitly3 >>> changing the switch to full-duplex solves this.v >>>o >>K >> I've given up trying to make 100FD work reliably to most of our switchesn >(fromH >> VMS). Even if I force modes at both ends *sometimes* it still doesn't >work. II >> have found that 100 Half Duplex works on every single occasion. If youS >havetI >> very heavy two way network traffic then this would not be an option of- >course. >-@ >Do you have any half duplex segments on your LAN?  If you do, a> >network adapter set to full duplex can send more data to that> >segment than the hosts on it can handle, resulting in dropped >packets and retransmissions.e > L >> Every other piece of hardware/software seems to reliably autonegotiate so >whyL >> not VMS. The same cards in some of our NT servers autonegotiate correctly >som/ >> it's a software problem as far as I can see.  >hF >I personally have seen autonegotiaton fail on on non-OpenVMS systems,E >and have been given advice from several Networking people who seldomlF >if ever work on OpenVMS systems to disable autonegotiation where ever
 >possible. >aH >From a networking class that I had just over a year ago, the instructorD >explained that the reason was a lack of a standard way of doing theA >negotiation.  Newer equipment uses better algorithms than older.t > C >If all of your networking equipment was from the same vendor, thani) >autonegotiation has a chance of working.- >-D >If you are a multiple vendor shop, then it just a matter of luck if" >autonegotiation will work at all. >"H >When the firmware of a network card is set to autonegotiation mode, theB >host operating system is totally uninvolved with the negotiation. >eI >Just because two links use the same model of hub and lan cards, does not.- >mean they are at the same firmware revision.  >  >r >-John >Personal Opinion Only >wb8tyw@qsl.networkt   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jun 2001 14:16:30 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000- Message-ID: <87vgmbqwn5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>*  4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  D > I wonder if VMS is more picky in looking for network problems, and? > more likely to report a marginal case that other systems justo	 > ignore.c  A > I notice that VMS reports more errors than our semi-intelligent E > switch reports at the other end of the same cable.  That might be aa@ > real difference in error rates, or it might be a difference in > reporting philosophy.   F Ah, what error reporting on other systems? Network errors seem to be aC Someone Else's Problem for the OS error report and logging, and TPCs% just tosses errors without a whisper.d  C I've seen several switches that won't do reliable 100FD inless theypB are configured to that. And I've seem ones that drop the config onA power fail so your entire network is screwed till you redo all of  it.p     -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.u@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov     ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:57:15 -0500i3 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)i, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10003 Message-ID: <NWLetSu7L7Yi@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  8 In article <9bdpht4cjtmpbtj85vjqfrtm9etda0pgju@4ax.com>,+ Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.network> writes:a3 > On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:57:13 -0500, "Main, Kerry"h  > <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote: >E >>Fwiw,  >>I >>I agree 100% with John. The issue is usually not whether it is VMS, butgJ >>rather the lack of standards in the way auto-negotiation works with many8 >>older and different switch and NIC vendor's equipment. >HF > And I don't agree. Yes I agree the standards are not... but the factB > is that I, and many others, have discovered that our VMS systemsD > *usually* have problems with auto-negotiate (cisco, 3com,  netgearC > switches) and most of our other equipment doesn't (or very rarelylC > does). Whatever the reason switches seem to always auto-negotiate G > correctly with cards in NT machines. To the best of my knowledge this * > doesn't alter with the firmware version. > E > Bottom line: Plug in an NT box and it works at 100FD. Plug in a VMSaF > box and your network performance is likely to be highly erratic withG > the default settings. Wherever the problem lies I don't think this iseB > very good. I understand that the standards for auto negotiate onH > Gigabit ethernet have been tightened considerably but I don't have one# > in a VMS system yet to test this.e  G To the best of my knowlege, the operating system is not involved in theiA auto negotiation, it is done by the firmware in the network card.p  H This would indicate that in your environment, something probably relatedG to the network traffic patterns is causing the negotiation to noticablyo fail with an OpenVMS box.w  H Have you verified that all the NT systems have negotiated 100FD?, or areK you going by a lack of obvious symptoms to assume that they have negotiatede the expected settings.  H Also check that there are no Half duplex (thin/thick) links that are not isolated by a router.    -Johnl wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:59:55 -0500b+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@COMPAQ.com>c, Subject: RE: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D965D@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Alan,y  G re: VMS systems and autonegotiate .. I have seen similar issues with NT C servers as well. Granted, not as many, but the VMS issues were morehL prevalent in V6.x and previous versions of OpenVMS. Depending on the type ofJ NIC (older versions of DE500 were more of an issue), there are a number of Lan patches available as well. .  L From my perspective, you always want the best performance (100Mb, FD) from aI NIC and anything less is not good. So, why not set the NIC and the switchnI port to this optimum setting (assuming there are no local reasons againsts= this) and not have to worry about reboots, power failures andIF auto-negotiation each time the server or network switch comes back up?   Regardsf  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantM Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net] Sent: June 5, 2001 6:42 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000    1 On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:57:13 -0500, "Main, Kerry"o <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote:   >Fwiw, >-H >I agree 100% with John. The issue is usually not whether it is VMS, butI >rather the lack of standards in the way auto-negotiation works with manyu7 >older and different switch and NIC vendor's equipment.@  D And I don't agree. Yes I agree the standards are not... but the fact@ is that I, and many others, have discovered that our VMS systemsB *usually* have problems with auto-negotiate (cisco, 3com,  netgearA switches) and most of our other equipment doesn't (or very rarely A does). Whatever the reason switches seem to always auto-negotiateaE correctly with cards in NT machines. To the best of my knowledge this ( doesn't alter with the firmware version.  C Bottom line: Plug in an NT box and it works at 100FD. Plug in a VMSaD box and your network performance is likely to be highly erratic withE the default settings. Wherever the problem lies I don't think this is"@ very good. I understand that the standards for auto negotiate onF Gigabit ethernet have been tightened considerably but I don't have one! in a VMS system yet to test this.h    K >Best advice for a mixed and/or an environment with older network equipmentrK >having these issues is usually "work with the network support resources in J >your oraganization to determine if the NICs should be set to 100MB, FD at1 >the same time as the switch is set to 100Mb FD."  >o >Regards >e >Kerry Maino >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Inc.p >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036e >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comt >o >r >-----Original Message----- E >From: malmberg@encompasserve.org [mailto:malmberg@encompasserve.org]  >Sent: June 4, 2001 11:24 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000s >  > + >In article <3B1966F7.4AD9383A@virgin.net>,n, >Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.network> writes: >> >> John Santos wrote:s >>C >> However, I don't think it negotiates full/half duplex correctly.. >>G >>> Under heavy load, DECnet logs lots of "alignment" and "frame check"nJ >>> errors to OPCOM.  Either setting the ew?0_mode to FastHD or explicitly3 >>> changing the switch to full-duplex solves this.  >>>r >>K >> I've given up trying to make 100FD work reliably to most of our switchesn >(fromH >> VMS). Even if I force modes at both ends *sometimes* it still doesn't >work. II >> have found that 100 Half Duplex works on every single occasion. If youd >have.I >> very heavy two way network traffic then this would not be an option of  >course. >t@ >Do you have any half duplex segments on your LAN?  If you do, a> >network adapter set to full duplex can send more data to that> >segment than the hosts on it can handle, resulting in dropped >packets and retransmissions.t > L >> Every other piece of hardware/software seems to reliably autonegotiate so >whyL >> not VMS. The same cards in some of our NT servers autonegotiate correctly >soe/ >> it's a software problem as far as I can see.a >eF >I personally have seen autonegotiaton fail on on non-OpenVMS systems,E >and have been given advice from several Networking people who seldom F >if ever work on OpenVMS systems to disable autonegotiation where ever
 >possible. >iH >From a networking class that I had just over a year ago, the instructorD >explained that the reason was a lack of a standard way of doing theA >negotiation.  Newer equipment uses better algorithms than older.n >fC >If all of your networking equipment was from the same vendor, thanq) >autonegotiation has a chance of working.h > D >If you are a multiple vendor shop, then it just a matter of luck if" >autonegotiation will work at all. >mH >When the firmware of a network card is set to autonegotiation mode, theB >host operating system is totally uninvolved with the negotiation. >9I >Just because two links use the same model of hub and lan cards, does not - >mean they are at the same firmware revision.  >  >h >-John >Personal Opinion Only >wb8tyw@qsl.networkt   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:47:21 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10008 Message-ID: <tfvphtg2lnh2b5ti2jvvbg7sh88jsv3417@4ax.com>  1 On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:59:55 -0500, "Main, Kerry"n <Kerry.Main@COMPAQ.com> wrote:   >Alan, >tH >re: VMS systems and autonegotiate .. I have seen similar issues with NTD >servers as well. Granted, not as many, but the VMS issues were moreM >prevalent in V6.x and previous versions of OpenVMS. Depending on the type ofrK >NIC (older versions of DE500 were more of an issue), there are a number oft  >Lan patches available as well.  >rM >From my perspective, you always want the best performance (100Mb, FD) from aeJ >NIC and anything less is not good. So, why not set the NIC and the switchJ >port to this optimum setting (assuming there are no local reasons against> >this) and not have to worry about reboots, power failures andG >auto-negotiation each time the server or network switch comes back up?:  F Because I don't have authority to alter our network switches. Trust meB I have had shouting matches about this with the outsourced networkD support company (not EDS this time). It was simpler to just lock theC VMS end to 100HD as this is sufficient. Note there is also a directeF crossover link (no switch) between the two main ES40s (DE500 to DE500) which runs at 100FD.  E This is the old case where they answer "but it works fine with NT". I< know all the arguments....   >Regards >  >Kerry Mainy >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Inc.n >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036s >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.come >t >e >-----Original Message-----d- >From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]  >Sent: June 5, 2001 6:42 AMn >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000t >a > 2 >On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:57:13 -0500, "Main, Kerry" ><Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote:1 >c >>Fwiw,d >>I >>I agree 100% with John. The issue is usually not whether it is VMS, butIJ >>rather the lack of standards in the way auto-negotiation works with many8 >>older and different switch and NIC vendor's equipment. >eE >And I don't agree. Yes I agree the standards are not... but the factsA >is that I, and many others, have discovered that our VMS systemshC >*usually* have problems with auto-negotiate (cisco, 3com,  netgearhB >switches) and most of our other equipment doesn't (or very rarelyB >does). Whatever the reason switches seem to always auto-negotiateF >correctly with cards in NT machines. To the best of my knowledge this) >doesn't alter with the firmware version.  >iD >Bottom line: Plug in an NT box and it works at 100FD. Plug in a VMSE >box and your network performance is likely to be highly erratic with F >the default settings. Wherever the problem lies I don't think this isA >very good. I understand that the standards for auto negotiate onaG >Gigabit ethernet have been tightened considerably but I don't have onen" >in a VMS system yet to test this. >  >tL >>Best advice for a mixed and/or an environment with older network equipmentL >>having these issues is usually "work with the network support resources inK >>your oraganization to determine if the NICs should be set to 100MB, FD at02 >>the same time as the switch is set to 100Mb FD." >>	 >>RegardsM >> >>Kerry Main >>Senior ConsultantK >>Compaq Canada Inc. >>Professional Services, >>Voice: 613-592-4660h >>Fax  :  819-772-7036 >>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >> >> >>-----Original Message-----F >>From: malmberg@encompasserve.org [mailto:malmberg@encompasserve.org] >>Sent: June 4, 2001 11:24 AM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms. >>Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 >> >>, >>In article <3B1966F7.4AD9383A@virgin.net>,- >>Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.network> writes:o >>>m >>> John Santos wrote: >>>tD >>> However, I don't think it negotiates full/half duplex correctly. >>>nH >>>> Under heavy load, DECnet logs lots of "alignment" and "frame check"K >>>> errors to OPCOM.  Either setting the ew?0_mode to FastHD or explicitlyo4 >>>> changing the switch to full-duplex solves this. >>>> >>>iL >>> I've given up trying to make 100FD work reliably to most of our switches >>(fromaI >>> VMS). Even if I force modes at both ends *sometimes* it still doesn'tI	 >>work. I J >>> have found that 100 Half Duplex works on every single occasion. If you >>haveJ >>> very heavy two way network traffic then this would not be an option of	 >>course.a >>A >>Do you have any half duplex segments on your LAN?  If you do, as? >>network adapter set to full duplex can send more data to that ? >>segment than the hosts on it can handle, resulting in droppedM >>packets and retransmissions. >>M >>> Every other piece of hardware/software seems to reliably autonegotiate soC >>whyaM >>> not VMS. The same cards in some of our NT servers autonegotiate correctlys >>so0 >>> it's a software problem as far as I can see. >>G >>I personally have seen autonegotiaton fail on on non-OpenVMS systems,rF >>and have been given advice from several Networking people who seldomG >>if ever work on OpenVMS systems to disable autonegotiation where ever. >>possible.i >>I >>From a networking class that I had just over a year ago, the instructoreE >>explained that the reason was a lack of a standard way of doing thetB >>negotiation.  Newer equipment uses better algorithms than older. >>D >>If all of your networking equipment was from the same vendor, than* >>autonegotiation has a chance of working. >>E >>If you are a multiple vendor shop, then it just a matter of luck if # >>autonegotiation will work at all.n >>I >>When the firmware of a network card is set to autonegotiation mode, thenC >>host operating system is totally uninvolved with the negotiation.e >>J >>Just because two links use the same model of hub and lan cards, does not. >>mean they are at the same firmware revision. >> >> >>-Johnx >>Personal Opinion Onlyf >>wb8tyw@qsl.network   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 16:14:21 GMTn2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging, Message-ID: <9fj0gt$1cq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  t In article <zaOS6.21551$zl5.6585942@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > K >If I was King, er, Capellas For a Day, my first edict would be to find thea5 >corporate graphics person responsible for the gaffe.e  K HP has a method of reducing the size of groups by sending out a notice that D "you have N weeks to find a job in another group inside HP or you'reF terminated".  This is nicer than just a pink slip, and tends to retainQ skilled workers.  Does the Q do the same thing?  (It seems unlikely, given their oK general managerial ineptitude.)  Anyway, if they do, then somebody may haveaH decided to take the exit door and on the way out left the Q this ad as a parting gift.   G Which isn't to say that incompetence didn't play a factor - something'seJ clearly wrong when any part of your company is giving the competition freeK advertising.  And somebody who remained with the company should have caughts this.i  H Speaking of firing the incompetent, here is a classic example. (ObtainedH second hand, from a programmer who worked there at the time, but was not involved in the incident.)    H PacBell once put a bit of code into production which was supposed to notH charge for telephone calls lasting fewer than 5 seconds.  The idea beingI that these were wrong numbers and shouldn't be charged.  It worked like asD charm but unfortunately the code did not check the minutes and hoursG fields, and it took the company more days than they had backup tapes tolJ figure out that their income had suddently dropped to 55/60 of what it hadG been, and to trace down the cause.  As a consequence the good people offE California were graced with several million dollars of free telephonerK service.  Once PacBell figured out the problem heads rolled like it was therK French revolution, with everybody even remotely responsible being shown ther< door - including managers many levels above the programmer.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech hJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:46:19 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)# Subject: Re: alphastation 200 4/233s3 Message-ID: <vw4T6.1030$fi2.27157@news.cpqcorp.net>n  9 Just an FYI: I've installed RedHat and SuSE Linux kits on08 various alphas (including the AlphaStation 200) and they7 can both be done from the SRM console.  Any good recent05 version of Linux should install and boot from the SRMn6 console (even the CD-ROM itself) as newer Alphas don't have an ARC console.  8 There are some older kits that could also be booted from6 the ARC console, but that usually requires making some9 diskettes from the distribution kit.  Personally, I wouldu5 not use the ARC console unless I had to run somethingf' that would only boot from that console.r   --  (  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have ah5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:57:43 -0400 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> 1 Subject: Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?o( Message-ID: <3B1CF363.FE7BC537@ohio.edu>  A My apologies if this has already been mentioned -- my newsfeed isoC running two weeks behind on some traffic, and two minutes behind oni	 others...h  F We do our Web site indexing and keyword searching on VMS, as described at  .         http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/vmsindex/   See it in action ato  *         http://www.ohiou.edu/cwis/keyword/  D We crawl each of 50+ servers with a modified LYNX and then index the resulting files.  #                                 RDP      Didier Morandi wrote:n   > Arne Vajhj wrote: > >  > > System@Manager.com wrote: ? > > > Is there a product similar to Altavista/PC to build a VMSyD > > > documents database that could be searched by keywords, please? > >i& > > WWWINDEX can do something similar. > >u? > > (I also have an interesting concept available for download)  > >o > > Arne > $ > Where is WWWINDEX available, Arne? >a > D. > --  > Compaq Computer (Schweiz) GmbH# > berlandstrasse 1, 8600 Dbendorf( > GSM: +41 79 7054670a   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:28:36 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> * Subject: Re: Any DECforms users out there?8 Message-ID: <qqcpht4mkeunfppvidon7885plib3rgfva@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 01 Jun 2001 10:03:01 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robertf Deininger) wrote:n    J >There's a relatively new DECforms "web connector" product, which I assumeI >lets you put the UI part of a DECforms application on the web.  I didn't0H >try that.  The classic DECforms product is pretty much frozen, I think, >but it's still supported.  D New versions of DECForms continue to be released as well as DECFormsD web connector. DECForms V3.2 is current. and was only released a few months ago.e >eK >> We currently have a homegrown "forms" based application and are thinkingn6 >> about migrating to DECforms (if not too much work).L >> I would like to get an idea of things like resource usage and development >> difficulty etc. >-H >I can't really say, but DECforms is fairly old.  VMS machines are a lotK >faster and have a lot more memory than they did when DECforms was born.  I G >guess the resource usage (above the basic needs of you app) are prettycJ >minimal.  If you have a lot of simultaneous users, eventually there'll be >an impact.  >,: >Why not get the trial license from Compaq and try it out?   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:17:48 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@DELETETHIS.mac.com>@ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?8 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010604170743.01c0a468@exchi01>  M We have one client still using Sybase on VMS.  We dropped the Sybase support lI contract a year or two ago because it was so bad and so expensive.  BTW, rK we're running 11.0.2 on VMS; if support told you the latest is 10.0.4 that lM may be an indication of how knowledgeable support is.  They discontinued VMS tG development three or four years ago and never certified the product on hK anything later than OVMS 6.2, so what you are hearing is not news.  Sybase hM may well be more in the "dying and unsupported" category than VMS is at this  L point since Microsoft has way undersold them and nearly obliterated them in ; the NT space.  It's a shame since it is/was a good product.d  I It does make it a bit nerve-wracking to upgrade the OS (we're at 7.1) or aH even apply ECOs to the C RTL since you know that if the database breaks G there will never be a fix.  If you can migrate to a supported database  M (Oracle, Rdb, Cache, MIMER, possibly Ingres) then go for it.  Or do us all a tG favor and port the open source PostgreSQL to VMS.  Otherwise there are xK various ways of keeping your production jobs running under VMS but talking sJ to databases on other platforms.  I've been looking into odbc clients for J OpenVMS and the two viable ones I've seen are from www.odbcsdk.com (to NT M servers only) and www.easysoft.com (to a variety of server platforms).  With rI both of these, VMS documentation and support look a bit thin but I got a sJ working demo up and running in an hour or two.  I also looked at Attunity K Connect but after an hour or two with the voluminous documentation I still cF didn't know what it would do for me or how.  On the other hand, since L Attunity is supported by Compaq it may be worth getting over the complexity  hurdle.e  i "BPollard@micron.com" <bpollard@micron.com> wrote in message news:<9fg73l$aau$1@admin-srv3.micron.com>...oH > My company still uses VMS platforms to run our mfg programs and accessJ > Sybase on Unix.  We even use Omni to access RMS files.  Sybase is endingN > support for Open Client and Omni-Connect Jan 31, 2003.  Are we the only onesJ > raising a stink about continued support for VMS by sybase?  There latestM > version is 10.0.4 and they recently stated in my tech support case " VMS is J > a dying and unsupported version as far as Sybase is concerned".  I wouldM > like to know if anyone else is interesting in working with us to convincingt5 > Sybase to continue support for VMS into the future.t >  > bpollard@micron.com'   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 02:43:29 -0400o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Backup to CD?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506010243290001@user-2ive73r.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <3B1BA645.8C6293D0@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:    K > I'm missing the manual for the TZ88, tried the Quick Specs, not adequate.  > Must be on the web somewhere.n  G We have the plain DLT drives from Quantum.  Which Quantum drive matcheslH the TZ88?  I'll be away from my office for a day or two, but I'll try toJ remember to check our manual when I'm back.  I suspect the whole family of5 drives uses the same SCSI commands for the most part.o  I Meantime, you might hunt at www.quantum.com for the manual for the TZ88'sn counterpart.   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:11:19 +0200a2 From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcormail.de>; Subject: Re: Can the MIME tool in 7.2-1 be non-interactive?s+ Message-ID: <3B1CBE57.2040701@arcormail.de>-  
 Hi Warren,  ' I have to reconstruct this from memory:m   $ create/file empty.txtn
 $ mcr mime open/draft empty.txt add doc1.doc add table2.xls closeh exit $ exit  9 Creating the empty file first and then opening is a draft0 does the trick.    Thomas     Warren Spencer wrote:a   > Hi Folks,S > M > I'm trying to use MIME on OpenVMS 7.2-1 to encode a file.  I need to do it  H > from a command file - not interactively.  Is anyone aware of a way to M > prevent MIME from demanding interactive input via the editor when creating o > a new message? >  > ws     --  9 Thomas H. Pauli, Hammersteinstr.19, 14199 Berlin, Germanyo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:34:40 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> Q Subject: Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)c) Message-ID: <3B1CEDFF.F190E592@bbc.co.uk>w   JF Mezei wrote:    > "Jay E. Morris" wrote:P > > We have the same problem.  We mail straight text reports (well, they do haveQ > > form feeds) out to over 100 remote users each morning.  Probably 90% of thesee > > end up in Outlook. >uO > Isn't there a way to configure outlook to display and pring using a monospacee2 > font and not to reformat/flow text in a window ? >   O We tried and failed to do this. Tabulated reports from VMS and Unix really look0P crap in proprtional spaced fonts in Outlook. You can select a font while reading theiH message but we couldn't do it aitomatically with out version of Outlook.   >o6 > If Teamlinks had that option, surely OUtlook would ?   Why?   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk2  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 09:26:24 -0500a3 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) Q Subject: Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)r3 Message-ID: <A15O5g4H1JOy@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  < In article <VEYS6.83030$y_3.22913439@typhoon.austin.rr.com>,2 "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.company> writes: >> Bill Ames wrote:I >> >F >> > I'm want to email an 80 character wide invoice file which residesG >> > on my OpenVMS system to an Microsoft Outlook user.  I get the listoH >> > file just fine, but when I actually print it wraps the text smallerG >> > than 80 characters. I've played with Outlook, sytles and such withs@ >> > no luck. Is anyone else out there doing this kind of stuff? >>F > We have the same problem.  We mail straight text reports (well, they@ > do have form feeds) out to over 100 remote users each morning.@ > Probably 90% of these end up in Outlook.  If they try to printC > the file straight from Outlook, it applies margins all around ando- > *seems* to ignore the form feeds we put in.e  E > One solution for them is to save the message or attachment, load iteE > into Word and set all margins to 0".  There is still a problem withoF > text in tables being out of alignment because of proportional fonts. >wD > My preferred solution, if they can get their system people to showB > them how, is to set up a network printer at dos level (lpt1) and4 > have them print the file directly after saving it.  F Microsoft Outlook is most likely using a registry setting to invoke anC external program to do the printing.  My guess would be notepad.exec  G notepad.exe uses (possibly undocumemented officially) registry settingsgG to set it's print format.  I seem to recall seeing an article somewhereoG on how to change these globally for notepad.  And then you may find out : what other applications also use notepad.exe for printing.  = IIRC: The default for notepad.exe is to format for 72 colums.r  D At least one popular printer driver for Microsoft Windows also knows> that all plain text documents are by always 72 columns wide byB 60 lines /page, and resets the power up defaults for it's printersD to match that at the beginning of every print job (even ones sent inK RAW mode), so that all other users of the printer are immediately affected.e  J This change does not affect windows, as after the driver changes the powerG up default settings at the beginning of the printjob, it sends the ones01 needed for the current job as temporary settings.u   -John  Personal Opinion Onlyn wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 07:56:59 -0500f- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)>* Subject: Re: Charon-VAX hobbyist, not back3 Message-ID: <vNU1a9Wr+o+L@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  o In article <NjSS6.15076$RD3.318717@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> writes:s > < > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:QhJMOcdoFG37@eisner.encompasserve.org...l >>D >>  I didn't see any announcement, but I looked and found Charon-VAX" >>  hobbyist came back last month. > : > I cannot see a link on their page for the download yet..' > any idea when it'll become available?e >   I Oops, you're right.  I mis-followed the link and there is no download, so  it's not back yet.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationi= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:18:30 +0200r2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>0 Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX: Help/mess does not work+ Message-ID: <3B1CF845.646FF6A2@digital.com>   F IIRC there was a problem with SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]MSGHLP$ENGLISH.EXE on VAX OVMS 6.2. F Try copying the file from a OVMS V6.1 system, or an installation CD if you can find one.t   Mike   Didier Morandi wrote:> >  > When doing a >  > $ help/mess pkgreqdq > 
 > I get this:l >  > Message number 05FD8013- > (and many others similar)4 > 6 > Actually a simple $ help/mess gives the same result. > The HELP facility is ok. > I > I did not find any 05FD8013 error message. Except the 05FD prefix whichtI > seems to be a VGATHL code "reserved to Digital" (from 4515pro_038.html)TE > Set watch sez that sys$help:msghlp$library.msghlp$data is accessed.g > 9 > (I recall that Charon-Vax is shipped with OpenVMS 6.2).  >  > Any idea anyone?	 > Thanks,b >  > D.   -- eE ---------------------------------------------------------------------iE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*nF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------n -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----s Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:43:41 +01002 From: "Chris Casey" <Chris.Casey@CogentNOSPAM.com> Subject: Disk statsi> Message-ID: <3b1cd40d$0$12241$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net>   Hi  L I have an aversion to doing hard work that someone else may have done before# so this is a request on that basis.pK Does anyone have a spreadsheet or model that calculates expected throughputdG of various disks, taking into account controllers, configurations (e.g.k RAID), and io mix.J Or, more likely, any part of the above that I can stitch together to model my environment.   K We know what we are getting at various peak loads but I have not worked oute6 the formulae to calculate what we should be expecting.  K As a basis for discussion we are running various sizes of narrow SCSI diskswK using HSZ50s with controller based RAID5 in a storageworks cabinet on Alphad 4100's.p   -- Chris Casey (Webmaster)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:48:07 +0200" From: "CyForce" <cyboy20x@usa.net>Y Subject: Free Downloads, Wallpapers, Games, Eroticgames, Handy-Logos and much more moremo,. Message-ID: <9fiur0$u0c$15997@riker.addcom.de>   Hello, *  0 on www.cyload.de.vu     you get Free Downloads,  Free Eroticgames Free Wallpapers  Free Handy-Logos Free Applications 
 and much more      Enjoy* Your CyForce= _____________________________________________________________-= This message posted with trial version of Express News PosterM   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:36:44 -0400 - From: The Scarlet Wombat <coconut@netway.com>D0 Subject: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui< Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010605103644.007d5100@209.251.64.26>  } I have been going bald, one hair at a time, trying to figure this out.  I know it is simple, but am having a devil of a time.o   I need to know the entry number of a job with a known name in a known queue.  Every iteration of the lexical, f$getqui, seems to fail in one way or other.  % Any help would be highly appreciated.   
 Dan Graham   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:50:36 -0400 > From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>4 Subject: RE: Getting job entry numbers with f$getquiK Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DC0DF@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>    > -----Original Message-----6 > From: The Scarlet Wombat [mailto:coconut@netway.com]' > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:37 AML > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui >  > ? > I have been going bald, one hair at a time, trying to figure  B > this out.  I know it is simple, but am having a devil of a time. > @ > I need to know the entry number of a job with a known name in < > a known queue.  Every iteration of the lexical, f$getqui, $ > seems to fail in one way or other. > ' > Any help would be highly appreciated.. >  > Dan Graham  A Here is a section of code I have used.  Your mileage with it, may  vary.p  ? $! We cancel and prior queue context, and get new queue context  $ context = F$GETQUI("")E $ qc = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE","QUEUE_NAME", "QUE$TZ87", "WILDCARD")n $!J $! There should be only one job in the queue, and as such we can pull info= $! from it without looping through the queue to find the job.g) $ jn = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_NAME")mC $ entry = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","ENTRY_NUMBER",, "FREEZE_CONTEXT")oC $ exec = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_EXECUTING",, "FREEZE_CONTEXT")h $!   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadway  Albany, NY  12204v USAl 518-487-3255 JKoska@lexisnexis.comm  * "I post personal opinion only, and all the* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my* views in no way represent my employer(s)."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:14:47 -0400 + From: "O'Connor, Marty" <MOConnor@DVFS.COM>p4 Subject: RE: Getting job entry numbers with f$getquiF Message-ID: <85C741006DA1D0119CE00000F8752CE305004130@msexc1.dvfs.com>  6 From: 	The Scarlet Wombat [mailto:coconut@netway.com]   L I need to know the entry number of a job with a known name in a known queue.L Every iteration of the lexical, f$getqui, seems to fail in one way or other.  K Here's an example of something I wrote to get the job number of a named joboI to execute the synchronize command. It's a little more than you asked forp but is shows the general idea.   Marty O'Connor     $ on control_y then goto exitmL $!-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----J $! SYNC_ON_JOB.COM -    This procedure synchronizes on the specified BATCH jobd@ $!                      before returning to the calling routine.L $!-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----K $! P1 - String variable containing the name of the batch job to synchronizeo on.u: $!      If P1 is NULL then the routine returns imediately.L $! P2 - String variable with the word "PENDING" to sync on either executing  $!      or pending state.dL $!-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----  $  if p1 .eqs. "" then goto exit $  sync_job_name = p1u $  show symbol sync_job_name $   & $  temp = f$getqui("cancel_operation") $QLOOP:n= $  QNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE","QUEUE_NAME","*","BATCH")- $  IF QNAME .EQS. "" THEN EXIT $JLOOP::D $  NOACCESS = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_INACCESSIBLE",,"ALL_JOBS")+ $  IF NOACCESS .EQS. "TRUE" THEN GOTO JLOOP ' $  IF NOACCESS .EQS. "" THEN GOTO QLOOP./ $  JNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_NAME",,- (               "FREEZE_CONTEXT,ALL_JOBS")5 $  ENT_NUM = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","ENTRY_NUMBER",,-c(               "FREEZE_CONTEXT,ALL_JOBS"): $  JOB_RUNNING = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_EXECUTING",,-(               "FREEZE_CONTEXT,ALL_JOBS")8 $  JOB_PENDING = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_PENDING",,-(               "FREEZE_CONTEXT,ALL_JOBS") $!% $  if jname .eqs. "''sync_job_name'" l $  then F $    WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "    Entry:  ", ent_num,"         JOB:  ", JNAME $    show symbol job_running d+ $    if p2 .nes. "" .and. .not. job_running 	 $    thena $       show symbol job_pendingb! $       job_running = job_pendingI  $       show symbol job_running 
 $    endif $    if job_running 
 $    then  $       show time  $       set verify$ $       SYNCHRONIZE /ENTRY='ent_num'
 $       show i $       GOTO EXITk
 $    endif $  endif
 $  GOTO JLOOPu $exit:% $ temp = f$getqui("cancel_operation"),   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:09:13 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 4 Subject: Re: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui/ Message-ID: <thq10s1fq589cc@news.supernews.com>i  2 If it's a job that you submitted then you can use:  F $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT f$getqui("DISPLAY_ENTRY","ENTRY_NUMBER","job-name")  H If it wasn't submitted by you then you have to establish a queue contextL with f$getqui("DISPLAY_QUEUE"... and loop through the jobs in the queue with f$getqui("DISPLAY_JOB"...a  : "The Scarlet Wombat" <coconut@netway.com> wrote in message6 news:3.0.6.32.20010605103644.007d5100@209.251.64.26...K > I have been going bald, one hair at a time, trying to figure this out.  Ir3 know it is simple, but am having a devil of a time.e >yG > I need to know the entry number of a job with a known name in a knownrJ queue.  Every iteration of the lexical, f$getqui, seems to fail in one way	 or other.o >o' > Any help would be highly appreciated.o >  > Dan Graham   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:03:47 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)4 Subject: Re: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui3 Message-ID: <Th8T6.1044$fi2.27830@news.cpqcorp.net>b  l In article <3.0.6.32.20010605103644.007d5100@209.251.64.26>, The Scarlet Wombat <coconut@netway.com> writes:M :I need to know the entry number of a job with a known name in a known queue.iM :Every iteration of the lexical, f$getqui, seems to fail in one way or other.t  I    Ask The Wizard topic (1240), (2159), (3951), and other examples exist.-    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:14:44 +0200e2 From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcormail.de>E Subject: Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ stm+ Message-ID: <3B1CBF24.6060400@arcormail.de>e  7 You'll might want to look at http://www.junkscience.como: of http://www.co2science.com which seems to provide a good cure for parrots.e   Thomas   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:o  $ > Andrew has nerve bringing this up. > , > Anyone who reads this newsgroup knows that1 > the decomposition of Andrew's old posts resultse/ > in a significant release of greenhouse gases.  >  > WWWebb >  >  >> -----Original Message-----n2 >> From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET& >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:02 AMG >> To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET H >> Subject: Global warming? was: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status >> s >> xG >> Actually Andrew, I think you'll find that the view that it was "just I >> another cycle" as opposed to global warming created by the emission of I >> so-called "greenhouse gases" was expressed a number of years ago, wellt? >> before the recent US Presidential race ever came into being.f >> y@ >> Whilst it's true that I cannot remember the exact individuals >> involved in< >> expalining the other side of the argument, I do know that >> there was a BBC< >> program (probably in the "Horizon" series) that discussed >> this very thingH >> and whether "greenhouse gases" were actually doing any damage at all. >> yI >> I seem to recall having a discussion on it when I was doing mechanicalD> >> engineering research in Liverpool which would put it before >> September 1995. >> h: >> If you wish to belittle people in this newsgroup then I >> suggest that you do; >> a little digging in the various archives that are around% >> before doing so.p >> u	 >> Steve.  >> ' >> Mr. Harrison wrote: >> tD >>> The overwhelming majority?  Oh really?  That's funny, as I don'tD >>> believe you'll find that a majority of climate change SCIENTISTSF >>> have actually confirmed that global warming is actually occurring,D >>> and if it is that it's caused by greenhouse gases, which is whatF >>> the Kyoto Treaty addresses.  It seems that there is as much weightE >>> given to solar cycles are as plausible an explanation for climatei& >>> changes that may be occurring now. >>>  >> tA >> Sorry but you are just parroting the Bush administration line.l@ >> There is an overwhelming majority view that global warming is= >> happening backed up by hard data. There is a minority viewr> >> expoused by yourself apparently and the Bush camp which has >> tried to deny this. >> e@ >> In fact the majority of scientists are so concerned about the< >> Bush administrations denial tactics that 15 of the worlds; >> leading scientific bodies have taken the step of writingc@ >> an open letter to Bush with the full support of their members >> condeming his action. >> <<< >  >>     -- s9 Thomas H. Pauli, Hammersteinstr.19, 14199 Berlin, Germany    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:36:44 -0400o From: wwebb1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st>K Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB75001925BE4@rlghncst625.usps.gov>n  ) You're calling me a parrot (implying thati+ I'm parroting the Bush administration line) . and then serve up two sites that are skeptical of global warming?  1 I've known about Milloy's site for years.  It's a90 great resource for separating wheat from chaff.   0 Kyoto is just another anti-technology initiative1 by radical socialists who, since socialism is nowf1 out of fashion, have attempted to disguise their a5 agenda by painting it "Green" in an attempt to delay   its inevitable demise.  8 "Of all the tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good 7 of its victims may may be the most oppressive.  It may e< be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent < moral busybodies.  The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes 7 sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but  6 those who torment us for our own good will torment us 1 without end, for they do so with the approval of n" their consciences."  -- C.S. Lewis  5 These same busybodies would have us all ride bicyclese3 to work while wearing our organic fiber Mao suits, o one-size-fits-all.  ; The body odor alone would probably extinguish all remaining  animal life on the planet.  ! I will say no more on this topic.p   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET & > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 6:12 AMF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETG > Subject: RE: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st' >  > 9 > You'll might want to look at http://www.junkscience.com < > of http://www.co2science.com which seems to provide a good > cure for parrots.e >  > Thomas >  > WILLIAM WEBB wrote:d > & > > Andrew has nerve bringing this up. > >f. > > Anyone who reads this newsgroup knows that3 > > the decomposition of Andrew's old posts resultsp1 > > in a significant release of greenhouse gases.  > >w
 > > WWWebb > >- > >- > >> -----Original Message----- 4 > >> From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET( > >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:02 AM> > >> To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 
 > at INTERNETn@ > >> Subject: Global warming? was: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v  > DOJ status > >> > >>@ > >> Actually Andrew, I think you'll find that the view that it  > was "justs@ > >> another cycle" as opposed to global warming created by the 
 > emission ofa< > >> so-called "greenhouse gases" was expressed a number of  > years ago, well.A > >> before the recent US Presidential race ever came into being.  > >>B > >> Whilst it's true that I cannot remember the exact individuals > >> involved in> > >> expalining the other side of the argument, I do know that > >> there was a BBC> > >> program (probably in the "Horizon" series) that discussed > >> this very thing< > >> and whether "greenhouse gases" were actually doing any  > damage at all. > >>; > >> I seem to recall having a discussion on it when I was y > doing mechanical@ > >> engineering research in Liverpool which would put it before > >> September 1995. > >>< > >> If you wish to belittle people in this newsgroup then I > >> suggest that you do= > >> a little digging in the various archives that are around$ > >> before doing so.N > >> > >> Steve.V > >> > >> Mr. Harrison wrote: > >>F > >>> The overwhelming majority?  Oh really?  That's funny, as I don'tF > >>> believe you'll find that a majority of climate change SCIENTISTSH > >>> have actually confirmed that global warming is actually occurring,F > >>> and if it is that it's caused by greenhouse gases, which is whatH > >>> the Kyoto Treaty addresses.  It seems that there is as much weightG > >>> given to solar cycles are as plausible an explanation for climateD( > >>> changes that may be occurring now. > >>>  > >>C > >> Sorry but you are just parroting the Bush administration line.tB > >> There is an overwhelming majority view that global warming is? > >> happening backed up by hard data. There is a minority view-@ > >> expoused by yourself apparently and the Bush camp which has > >> tried to deny this. > >>B > >> In fact the majority of scientists are so concerned about the> > >> Bush administrations denial tactics that 15 of the worlds= > >> leading scientific bodies have taken the step of writing B > >> an open letter to Bush with the full support of their members > >> condeming his action. > >> <<< > >E > >> >  >  > --; > Thomas H. Pauli, Hammersteinstr.19, 14199 Berlin, GermanyV >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:14:42 +0100- From: "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk>-6 Subject: Re: IRCD DECC$GLOG_2 multiply defined problem? Message-ID: <2G%S6.16679$RD3.335015@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>s  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009FCADC.352D824A@SendSpamHere.ORG...3 > Problem is with the name of a routine in S_LOG.C.b >s? > void log(...) is being confused with the DECC log() function.t  / We renamed log() to ilog(), it should work now.nB I'll probably release another CVS snapshop in the next week or so.       -larne-    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 17:21:04 +0200 * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: JRE.DMP( Message-ID: <3b1cf8e0@news.kapsch.co.at>  ] In article <01K43K5JZNOY000PDO@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes: M >I have just found the following file in SYS0.SYSEXE on my ES40 with VMS 7.2:l >d5 >JRE.DMP;1                     File ID:  (15497,41,0)- >-G >I have no idea what I was doing at that time, but the machine was not  J >re-booted that day -- unlikely to be anything of significance, excepting ; >that I did have to change my IP address sometime that day.5 >@K >The only thing I could think to try to read this with was anal/crash, but s >it is not a system dump file. >rM >Does anyone know where this came from, how to read it and whether I need it?r  J I'd bet, that it is a process crash dump from a JAVA (Runtime Environment)J process. The command to investigate is ANAL/PROC, but without source code,2 it is kind of useless. You could simply delete it.   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-8880< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:40:10 -0400n# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>r? Subject: Re: Low level format of SCSI disk, so VMS can read it..+ Message-ID: <3B1CEF49.41C00372@hsc.vcu.edu>   E the main gotcha i've see is you may have to adjust the awrre bits (or:I something like that) to tell the disk to NOT handle any errors, VMS wants>G to see it all.. (i'm running vms 5.5-2, and had to run a proggie calledA% scsiexer from HP to twiddle the bits)B  , i'm told later versions vms can handle this.   jimr   Vic Mendham wrote:   > I just lost a VMS disk. G > I'm going to try and use an old Sun or Novell SCSI disk to replace it H > Is there a way to perform a low level format, so that VMS will see the > drive?G > Is this neccessary or can I just set the SCSI ID and then perform the ' > Init and then backup/noinit/image....  >d
 > regards, > vmendham@altavista.com   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 07:24:45 -0700 + From: walchem@hotmail.com (Cup stays in NJ)e1 Subject: Maximum number of LUNs on a SCSI channel < Message-ID: <7781b06.0106050624.315e55bf@posting.google.com>  @ What is the maximum number of SCSI LUNs that can be addressed onA a single KZPSA or equivalent. Have an Alpha 4100 with OpenVMS 6.2GA and would like to direct attach non-DEC/Compaq storage arrays. Is!J there a limit to how many LUNs can be addressed on a single SCSI channel, 9 ie DKEnnn? Is the limitation the same in VMS 6.x and 7.x?g   Mike Walcheski   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:47:49 +0200 (MET)E From: MICHAEL.MONSCHEUER@hdw.de(' Subject: MultiNet and ActiveDirectory ?O- Message-ID: <0GEG00OAZPSJFE@mx.east.saic.com>d  D Has anybody running a setup (or seen one) where MultiNet does answer> DNS and DHCP queries (for both static and dynamic information)A originating from a W2K environment with Active Directory which ism0 lacking a native (say M$) DNS- and DHCP-server ?  I IOW, has anyone seen MutliNet to be compliant with W2K Active Directory ?-  % Any information or hints are welcome.4   TIA0  	   MichaelC  ;    Michael Monscheuer                     Monscheuer@hdw.detA    NIS GmbH, Werftstrasse 112-114         Phone  +49 431 700 43412A    24143 Kiel                             Fax    +49 431 700 3514oA    -------------------------------------------------------------- A    OpenVMS: The operating system God runs the Earth simulation one   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:39:49 +0200I( From: jose_luis.lamsfus_gomez@alcatel.es Subject: Other way to init tf86mH Message-ID: <OF2655559B.C19C06B9-ONC1256A62.005ABEB3@rdp.asi.alcatel.es>   In "Ask the Wizard" I I have found another answer for the question "DLT III reinitialization in- TZ85"-   Items used:-$    A PC with Windows NT Ver. 4.0 and:    a DLT2000 15.0/30.0 Compaq tape's unit, attached to it.   Start point:L    We have DLT III's cartridges from TZ86 (6 Gbytes) and we want to use them    in a TF85 (2.6 Gbytes).  4 Insert DLT III's cartridge into the DLT 2000 driver.   The status' LED should be:      LED "6.0" ONo    LED "Tape in use" ONN  ; Press "Select Density"'s button until LED "2.6" is blinkingl   Now the status' LED should be:      LED "2.6" blinking     LED "6.0" ONa    LED "Density override" ON    LED "Tape in use" ON-  * Now in WNT, select the main icons/options:      (*) Start (Icon) 
          .
          .    (*) Programs_
          .
          .&    (*) Administration's Tools (Common)
          .
          .    (*) Security's copies
          .
          .    (*) Operation (Icon)J
          .
          .    (*) Erase tape"
          .
          .    (*) Quick erase
          .
          .                  NOTEE                ----   I  (*) What I think it should be the translation to English from de SpanishZ      commands.  % At the end the status' LED should be:,      LED "2.6" ON     LED "Density override" ON    LED "Tape in use" ONG  5 Now DLT III's cartridge is ready to be used in a TZ85    P.D.D Please rewrite this paper as you like, so it's easier to understand.    8 If you have any doubt, please do not hesitate to say so.                Best Regards.                    LamsfusN ==============================================================================  
 NSD-NOS Spain  Alcatel Serviciosn Jose Luis Lamsfus Gomeze& Av. Princesa Juana de Austria, km. 8,7 28021 Madrid SPAINo e-mail: lamsfus@alcatel.es Phone; +34 91 330 6645 Alcanet Phone : 2414  6645 Fax; +34 91 330 6484N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:50:42 -0400p- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>-M Subject: Re: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in London"( Message-ID: <3B1CC792.B70D824C@ohio.edu>  D I would take that as strong evidence that the server is not properlyK configured to report the MIME type and sub-type for files ending with .PPT,$L but that Internet Exploder is doing its well-known defiance of standards andK choosing the helper application on the basis of the filename extension.  ItLL could also be the case that the problem browser is not yet configured to use' PowerPoint for files of that MIME-type.e  #                                 RDP3     "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:5  3 > "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messagee: > news:cUAP6.313932$o9.48609030@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...J > > When I try to open any of the links, I get a box asking me what I want > open > > it with. > > What is the trick here?o >fM > Good question... I'm running Win2K SP2 and IE5.5 on a DeskPro. When I go touH > the site and click on a link, the PPTs auto-magically download with no
 > problem.   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:55:20 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i; Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphasr8 Message-ID: <rbephtgg8a6rrkhe1kqbfgu2ge3tsulgae@4ax.com>  D On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:45:45 GMT, "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> wrote:  I >I think the third party software vendors are the ones trying to kill VMSSK >because they do not want to support their software on all the platforms onlH >the market.   They are forcing companies to move UNIX and Windows/NT by  D I have been told personally by several vendors that they dropped theA VMS port because they were effectively told to by DEC/Compaq. TheiC first time I heard this was with Unigraphics a decade ago or so andOE more recently from the makers of Ansys just about three years ago. In.E the first case DEC described Unix as their desktop platform of choicetD and in the second the vendor was told that Alpha/NT was strategic to DEC.  M >giving higher priority to supporting their core business platforms.  We needoM >to push back by requiring third party company to provide open source code totF >get our business and that will give us away to resolve software issueM >ourselves.   Once these third party companies see that we are patching theirCM >source code to run better on VMS then any other platform they have no choice- >but to support VMS.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:11:11 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com; Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and AlphassH Message-ID: <OF38308392.06BEC5B8-ON80256A62.0042A83C@qedi.quintiles.com>  K Even three years ago would still put it under the management of the companytE formerly known as Digital Equipment Corporation.  The three year markyJ would, I think, put it squarely in the quiet time in which the purchase ofE Digital was still not quite approved so the two companies (Compaq and>B Digital) could not make statements of what was to happen after the	 purchase.   I As such, it's perhaps a little inappropriate to say that the vendors were J told to drop the ports by DEC/Compaq.  Compaq would take no blame in this. Steve.   Alan Greig wrote:n >>>gD On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:45:45 GMT, "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> wrote:  I >I think the third party software vendors are the ones trying to kill VMS K >because they do not want to support their software on all the platforms onoH >the market.   They are forcing companies to move UNIX and Windows/NT by  D I have been told personally by several vendors that they dropped theA VMS port because they were effectively told to by DEC/Compaq. TheaC first time I heard this was with Unigraphics a decade ago or so and E more recently from the makers of Ansys just about three years ago. InyE the first case DEC described Unix as their desktop platform of choice D and in the second the vendor was told that Alpha/NT was strategic to DEC.  H >giving higher priority to supporting their core business platforms.  We needJ >to push back by requiring third party company to provide open source code toF >get our business and that will give us away to resolve software issueG >ourselves.   Once these third party companies see that we are patchingd theiryF >source code to run better on VMS then any other platform they have no choice >but to support VMS. <<<i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:49:09 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o; Subject: Re: Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphass8 Message-ID: <mpvphtsl5v1tfrgm30e5699r9c3iplvj5i@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:11:11 +0100, steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:    >  >,L >Even three years ago would still put it under the management of the companyF >formerly known as Digital Equipment Corporation.  The three year markK >would, I think, put it squarely in the quiet time in which the purchase ofmF >Digital was still not quite approved so the two companies (Compaq andC >Digital) could not make statements of what was to happen after the 
 >purchase. >oJ >As such, it's perhaps a little inappropriate to say that the vendors wereK >told to drop the ports by DEC/Compaq.  Compaq would take no blame in this.c  ( I did say DEC specifically further down.   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 07:55:11 -0700 < From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich), Subject: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"?= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0106050655.1617aea9@posting.google.com>   E Just perusing the latest news about AlphaServers and came across thise little nugget:  F "Giga Information Group confirms Compaq Tru64 UNIX business is gaining	 momentum"s6  http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/news/giga_0401.html  C  "The comeback is driven by ISV courtship and by marketing programs ? such as Compaq's QuickStrike Program, which provides free humaneE resource and loaner equipment to port applications to Tru64 UNIX. The-C program generated over $250 million in new sales, with another $500 D million in the pipeline. In addition, 108 new applications have been5 added to the Tru64 UNIX certified applications list."R  F Now, change the "Tru64 UNIX" to "OpenVMS" and one can only wonder "why not?"e  @ There must be SOME good reason why not.  Hello?  There IS a goodE reason, isn't there?  Anyone?  Compaq?  Hello?  Is anyone listening?   (Besides the choir, that is...)    Aaron/ -- OpenVMS: the OS MS wanted NT 2b.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:26:33 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org, Subject: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"?) Message-ID: <01060511263347@antinode.org>   < From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)  H > "Giga Information Group confirms Compaq Tru64 UNIX business is gaining > momentum"-8 >  http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/news/giga_0401.html > E >  "The comeback is driven by ISV courtship and by marketing programsWA > such as Compaq's QuickStrike Program, which provides free humannG > resource and loaner equipment to port applications to Tru64 UNIX. The E > program generated over $250 million in new sales, with another $500vF > million in the pipeline. In addition, 108 new applications have been7 > added to the Tru64 UNIX certified applications list."e > H > Now, change the "Tru64 UNIX" to "OpenVMS" and one can only wonder "why > not?"   E    I'd say that it's pretty easy to explain.  I'd assume that most oftB the software involved was developed in a UNIX environment, such asG Solaris.  Porting from Solaris to Tru64 can be relatively simple (as itBF was for an application on which I work).  Porting the same applicationF to VMS would probably be substantially more difficult.  If the goal isG to get the performance of an Alpha, most folks would choose the path of  less effort and less cost.  E    With Solaris licenses being free and Sun hardware being (arguably)oH cheaper, most software vendors could probably use a little encouragementA to move anywhere else.  Moving most software vendors to VMS would 3 probably require the application of physical force.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)>G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)>9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:35:45 +0100e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>b Subject: RZ28-E dead?l) Message-ID: <3B1CFC50.D9AA44B6@bbc.co.uk>    Hi  F thanks to aircon failure my non-maintained dev boxes and ex-live boxes& have recently been cooked at > 35C :-(  ? Main casualty so far is RZ28-E full height Quantum drive insidea	 enclosuree of MicroVax 3100 M80.   D I knew something was wrong when I changed the backup tapes and heard aloud C clicking at approx 1 Hz from the MicroVAX. Attempting to mount diske results in:e   $ mount/over=id dka2009 %MOUNT-W-IDXHDRBAD, index file header is bad; backup usedi" %MOUNT-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline  ; Error log shows command transmission failures to the drive.e  F Power cycled box, no change. Tried "rubber hammer". No change. Is this! drive toast? Look that way to me?.   regardse   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uky  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:34:50 +0100- From: "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk>b  Subject: select() on non-sockets? Message-ID: <WY%S6.16758$RD3.335480@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>    Hi,u  F is it possible to call select() on a non-socket FD (eg, stdin) on VMS?B I have some software which does this (an IRC client), but it seems! it fails with 'invalid argument'.-  ) if not, is there a better way to do this?p       -larne-(   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:11:34 GMTc= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)>$ Subject: Re: select() on non-sockets0 Message-ID: <009FD10E.D5D299AB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <WY%S6.16758$RD3.335480@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> writes:  >Hi, >sG >is it possible to call select() on a non-socket FD (eg, stdin) on VMS?lC >I have some software which does this (an IRC client), but it seems " >it fails with 'invalid argument'.  J I do not believe you can.  select() is listed in the C documentation alongJ with the socket functions and not in the general run-time.  I suspect that# it will only function with sockets.I    * >if not, is there a better way to do this?  I It depends upon what type of device your FD describes.  For example, read I attention ASTs might be the more VMS friendly solution if the device is am VMS mailbox.    J Perhaps a brief description of the use of the select() function would helpK readers here understand the application to better offer assistance with thel( VMS mechanism best suited to replace it. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-            -O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:25:21 +0200-- From: Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>n$ Subject: Re: select() on non-sockets3 Message-ID: <3B1CDDC1.22DAFB53@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>l  $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > q > In article <WY%S6.16758$RD3.335480@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> writes:B > >Hi, > >lI > >is it possible to call select() on a non-socket FD (eg, stdin) on VMS?tE > >I have some software which does this (an IRC client), but it seemsI$ > >it fails with 'invalid argument'. > L > I do not believe you can.  select() is listed in the C documentation alongL > with the socket functions and not in the general run-time.  I suspect that% > it will only function with sockets.  > D You are right. However teh ability to have it working on others thanH sockets would help a lot when porting to VMS. I came along many programs6 that use select to check input on the XWindows-device.?  Are there any plans at Compaq to enhance this select function? -   if yes: what is the expected time-schedule?e                      Jouki   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:55:40 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)n$ Subject: Re: select() on non-sockets0 Message-ID: <009FD11D.60CB193B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <3B1CDDC1.22DAFB53@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>, Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> writes::% >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:H >> hr >> In article <WY%S6.16758$RD3.335480@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> writes: >> >Hi,u >> >J >> >is it possible to call select() on a non-socket FD (eg, stdin) on VMS?F >> >I have some software which does this (an IRC client), but it seems% >> >it fails with 'invalid argument'.( >> $M >> I do not believe you can.  select() is listed in the C documentation alongWM >> with the socket functions and not in the general run-time.  I suspect thati& >> it will only function with sockets. >>  E >You are right. However teh ability to have it working on others thannI >sockets would help a lot when porting to VMS. I came along many programs47 >that use select to check input on the XWindows-device.-@ > Are there any plans at Compaq to enhance this select function?. >  if yes: what is the expected time-schedule? >- >                   Jouk  G My guess is that it will have to be equipped to handle these other usesO  in order to support the DII COE. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             dO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.s   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:55:45 -0500m- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler):$ Subject: Re: select() on non-sockets3 Message-ID: <TlQyjx8xhH0j@eisner.encompasserve.org>5  o In article <WY%S6.16758$RD3.335480@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> writes:" > Hi,  > H > is it possible to call select() on a non-socket FD (eg, stdin) on VMS?D > I have some software which does this (an IRC client), but it seems# > it fails with 'invalid argument'.r > + > if not, is there a better way to do this?  >   A Not yet, but I think it's likely to show up later as part of COE.   H For now, the VMS way of doing asynchronous I/O is to request the I/O and! be notified later when it's done.   G Contrast this approach with the UNIX select() aproach will notifies you D that an I/O will complete right away, and then you request that I/O.  H Asynchronous I/O can be done via asynchronous RMS or $QIO.  $QIO is fineD for simple devices, but you probably want to use RMS for disk files.  G Alternatively, you can use threads on both VMS and most UNIX and simply,G initiate an asynchronous thread for each I/O request (to the thread theOH I/O looks synchonous).  DECthreads on VMS supports the POSIX threads API6 which should be a match to POSIX threads on your UNIX.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation== NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group=E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingv   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:53:05 GMTu2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)$ Subject: Re: select() on non-sockets3 Message-ID: <ln6T6.1038$fi2.27307@news.cpqcorp.net>=  o In article <WY%S6.16758$RD3.335480@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> writes:D  G :is it possible to call select() on a non-socket FD (eg, stdin) on VMS?M  ?   Nope, the select() call is currently specific to IP activity.o)   (AFAIK, this is explicitly documented.)d  6 :I have some software which does this (an IRC client),  H   There are already various OpenVMS ports of IRC clients around.  (Even H   if you choose to continue with your own port, you can likely see what    others have done...)  * :if not, is there a better way to do this?  F   Some might claim better, but I'll leave it as "different" -- you can2   use ASTs and the $qio interface to the IP stack.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 05:25:31 -0500e/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>n? Subject: Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options=2 Message-ID: <3B1CB39B.CD19114@applied-synergy.com>   Hunter Goatley wrote:e > E > On 4 Jun 2001 18:01 PDT, rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin) wrote:m > 5 > >Switching compression methods in new kits would be C > >transparent to anyone using the self-extraction method but would,6 > >require a new external unpacker for paranoid types. > >nE > Agreed, and UNZIP will let you do this, albeit with a warning as ite& > skips over the self-extracting stub: > $ > $ copy hg_exe:unzipsfx.exe []y.exe > $ append z.zip y.exe	 > $ run yiI > UnZipSFX 5.42 of 14 January 2001, by Info-ZIP (Zip-Bugs@lists.wku.edu).t6 > replace x.x? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: n > $ unzip/lis y.exel% > Archive:  SCRATCH$:[SCRATCH]Y.EXE;1 R > warning [SCRATCH$:[SCRATCH]Y.EXE;1]:  76800 extra bytes at beginning or within z > ipfile" >   (attempting to process anyway)" >   Length     Date   Time    Name" >  --------    ----   ----    ----! >       991  06-04-01 22:29   x.xs% >  --------                   ------- $ >       991                   1 file      ! ZIP/ADJUST will fix this warning.s  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------d$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:50:29 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>? Subject: Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression optionsp, Message-ID: <9fidhn$161e@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  _ "Pat Rankin" <rankin@eql.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:4JUN200118012391@eql.caltech.edu...M  B > I'd suggest that self-extracting files need the same capability:C > some trusted utility already on the system that is able to do theP5 > extraction without executing the kit file directly.-  C That would be a different matter. My objection was that downloadingnJ a public UNZIP tool and properly auditing it would be a significant effortA (essentially agreeing with Simon's earlier post). As he said, theyE objection goes away if the tool is part of VMS, which (at some level)s) one has to trust the integrity of anyway.s   ------------------------------  , Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:05:57 +0200 (CEST)- From: Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> . Subject: Re: Some more bits looking for a homeK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106050705230.10902-100000@firewall.wes.mee.com>m   Hello,  ! > >I do not think this will help.  > : > >The DEPCA is a ISA bus and the PRO has proprietary bus. > . > The Ethernet option for the PRO is the DECNA  0 I know it's off-topic but I'm searching a DECNA.# Does anyone have such a controller?r   Thanks in advance, 	Freddye   -- .N Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv  J ==========================================================================D  Frederik Meerwaldt  ICQ: 83045387  Homepage: http://www.freddym.orgC  Bavaria/Germany              OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much morekI  Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOSU   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:49:46 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: srm and unexpected crd 3 Message-ID: <ek6T6.1037$fi2.27509@news.cpqcorp.net>r  ` In article <cdbc7707.0106041556.7fca6189@posting.google.com>, moi_is_me@usa.net (Pierre) writes:  ? :  Believeing I have problem with my machine memory, I issue a r9 :  "test memory" command from the SRM of my XP1000, whiche :  then proceded to say... :o$ :  Unexpected CRD through vector 630 :t  :  Anyone know what this means ?  G   The error indicates that the AlphaStation XP1000 system involved was GJ   "surprised" by an incident of a CRD ("Correctable Read Data") interrupt.  H   This typically indicates a hardware problem, something I would tend toG   assume indicates bad or marginal memory, bad or marginal cache, or a     bad motherboard.  8   Contact your hardware service provider for assistance.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:26:48 +0100o- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>k= Subject: Re: Tape compression factor (was: Re: Backup to CD?).) Message-ID: <3B1CEC28.BACD0E91@bbc.co.uk>-   Carl Perkins wrote:0  # > tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk writes...hQ > }Maybe I snipped too much of the thread, which has moved on from CD's to how to 0 > }get the compression factor from a TZ8* drive. > }--c9 > }Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Projectd >mE > It seems to me that one way would be to keep track of the rate thataE > data is flowing to the drive. Since bits are recorded at a constantpG > rate when the thing is streaming, then the rate that the uncompressed G > data is flowing to the drive can be used to tell what the compressionrE > ratio is. All you have to worry about it buffering and the probablytE > somewhat "bursty" nature of the I/O operations, as well as droppingiB > from streaming to "stop'n'go" recording. If you average the dataB > transfer rate over several seconds, you should get a pretty goodD > idea of the average compression ratio for that time period as longF > as the tape was streaming for the entire interval (there is also theE > possibility that the tape drive might record nothing to cover briefnB > intervals of data starvation without stopping). You just need toH > know the base, uncompressed, tape recording rate and the actual amountH > of data transferred in the sampling interval. Determining of the driveE > is streaming or not may be a tad more difficult - I have no idea ifo2 > there is a way to find this out programatically. >r
 > --- Carl   Carl,g  < yes, I have been doing back of envelope guestimates based onK number of IO's to the tape, blocksize and rated max data consumption of the = tape uncompressed. With a quiesced system apart from a backuppB from disk, then assume 1/2 the IO's are to tape and go from there.8 Being an ex[-physicist of course I cross check the data.  ; However, it seems to me the compression engine in the drive = should be able to provode a single figure that represents the - compression factor for the current operation.e  A ANyway, not world-shatteringly important, but it would be nice if  SHOW MAG displayed this info.n  2 Anyway, a thread with some VMS content at last :-)   regardst   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk(  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofp MedAS or the BBC.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:47:06 +0200r) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>s Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B1C806A.818FE2A1@infopuls.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:( > = > In article <3B1C1A59.28837551@infopuls.com>, Christof Brasst > <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:e > B > > Great, let's choose our entry level standard language. From my@ > > point of view it *is* possible to design a language in a way? > > that it supports safety against stupid (human) mistakes andeC > > power for the skillful programmer. A modern Pascal version likei- > > the modular DEC Pascal will do the trick.k > B > Ada is a very modern Pascal derivative, and is very portable.  AG > "beginner's subset" is pretty much as easy to learn as Pascal.  Maybe-F > easier, due to the absense of some of the nastier syntax problems in	 > Pascal.l > 6 > Ada has plenty of power for the skillful programmer. > J > (Note, Ada doesn't have any official subsets, but common sense shows the) > way to a reasonable beginner's subset.)e > K > Ada on VMS isn't currently very well supported.  VMS is NOT one of GNAT'sQ2 > favorite platorms, but it is available for free. >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comp  
 Fine with me.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:59:20 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>0 Subject: Re: The future of VMS8 Message-ID: <8eiehtg7u4rjejkb9m6fmlubuu1oppn5v6@4ax.com>  5 On Thu, 31 May 2001 15:00:36 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"o$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  / >If I had time on my hands, I would port Gnome.r > D >An alternative that might be interesting and do-able is to write anG >application that reads command line definition files, and builds a GUIs >interface for it.  D It;s occurred to me previously that it should be possible to build aA very nice DCL GUI by doing this without too much work. Could evene& cross-reference to the HELP libraries.  L >People are always complaining that they want GUI interfaces to command line	 >apps ;-)u >c >s >c   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:20:01 -0500t- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n Subject: RE: The future of VMS3 Message-ID: <RgD3W4yrKlAY@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  z In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EDF@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes: > J > That's putting it bluntly. :)  I'd like to make it clear, though, that IJ > don't advocate requiring people to use "safe" languages.  People can useJ > what they like, but I'd never recommend that a person new to programming > start out with fortran. ;)  < Why not, isn't that what all real programmers learned first?  D Or has WATERLOO FORTRAN WITH WATFOR AND WATFIV been out of print too long?n  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationu= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupeE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingw   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:21:48 -0500t- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c Subject: Re: The future of VMS3 Message-ID: <x2WNDtyA8wtj@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  X In article <3B1C1A59.28837551@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  @ > Great, let's choose our entry level standard language. From my> > point of view it *is* possible to design a language in a way= > that it supports safety against stupid (human) mistakes andbA > power for the skillful programmer. A modern Pascal version like + > the modular DEC Pascal will do the trick.t  H Considering that the original Pascal was invented as a teaching language? for exactly those kind of reasons, one cannot be too surprised.f  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group.E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jun 2001 18:00:17 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>I Subject: Re: The future of VMSH Message-ID: <y4d78i6hny.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:   9 > Challanger and Ariane V will not be the only "victims".f  @ Both Challenger and the first Ariane V were a failure of systemsK engineering. Somewhat different rules apply than on software 'engineering".    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:28:09 -0500A+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>s Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EEC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]   > Christopher Smith wrote:  < > > What I'm really saying is that I think the world should  > "standardize" on a> > > safer language (for application programming), since a lot  > of people whoj< > > don't know much about programming will just go with the  > standard.  The trick@ > > is to make it safe, while not making it too restrictive for  > an experienced< > > programmer (who will inevitably get stuck using it some  > time or another).n  @ > Great, let's choose our entry level standard language. From my> > point of view it *is* possible to design a language in a way= > that it supports safety against stupid (human) mistakes andtA > power for the skillful programmer. A modern Pascal version liken+ > the modular DEC Pascal will do the trick.   E Well, Robert Deininger has suggested Ada, which is not my preference, K although it would work.  I tend to prefer Mr. Wirth's more modern languagesrI to a DOD project based on his previous work.  Something like a dialect ofnH Modula or Oberon might work.  Alternatively, native Java would certainly make the C people happy.  K The mention of Oberon actually makes me wonder how much of the trouble withiL software could be solved in the implementation language.  On the other hand,F I think most of the remaining problems would be environmental, and VMS; should be a solid foundation for our mythical new language.a  C Perhaps we could come up with a list of constructs which most often- contribute to code malfunction?a   Common ones would be:0   Strings with no length.s  / Unstructured "manual" (de)allocation of memory.n  K Absence of a clearly defined (possibly it should even be platform agnostic)<0 type for one of: Array, int, float, long, double  H Goto ;)  (Not that I think it's used excessively any more, but you don't* want to encourage it if it's not required)  H Pointer arithmetic ( A beginner shouldn't probably go pointing to random< spots in memory without knowing what they're getting in to )  L Absence of a clear indicator whether an item is to be passed by reference orL value ( I think taking the pass by reference out by default may be going too far )o  L Built-in functions which conflict with user-defined ones (This can be solved with namespaces to an extent)c  K Type conversion without an explicit indication (This one is arguable eithertH way, though, and integer to float, for instance, would probably be fine.L Maybe there should be a mechanism for defining to which (and how) types some; item may be converted?  Again, that would call for a bit ofs object-oriented-ness.)  H Absence of an adequate set of standard procedures/functions.  (I've seenI more bad code written to replace things that should be part of a standardh# library than I care to remember. :)o  G Undefined behavior. :)  (Seriously, "undefined" is not good enough.  An-H error should be emitted in all cases where behavior can't be "defined.")  L Inconsistent use of delimiting characters () [] {}, '"` etc, etc. :) (more a problem in script languages)  I I'm sure I missed some things.  This is what comes to mind at the moment.u  K So the implementation the above "features" in the language would need to becI tightly controlled (or absent all together for some).  For those featuresoI above which are useful, I would consider a separate module, where you can G specifically include them, perhaps even on a per-item, and per-functionlE basis. (eg. "I want to do manual memory allocation in this function")t  = > I recently read a proposal to replace "unsafe" by "only for % > restricted use" in the area of PLs.e  J If you mean in practice, moving all of the "unsafe" features into a moduleI that could be ignored by most people, then I think it's a very good idea.yI As I said above, it may be even better if we can selectively include themi" one at a time in single functions.   regards,   Christ  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");a '>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:43:07 -0700S! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com  Subject: Re: The future of VMSD Message-ID: <OF38C7F6DF.0A7DE7C3-ON88256A62.00613827@foundation.com>  H Heh, true. An IF statement doesn't usually corrode, or fail due to metal
 fatigue...   Shane           D Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> on 06/05/2001 09:00:17 AM  ! Please respond to Jan Vorbrueggenp7       <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:4   Subject:  Re: The future of VMSt    + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:m  9 > Challanger and Ariane V will not be the only "victims".o  @ Both Challenger and the first Ariane V were a failure of systemsK engineering. Somewhat different rules apply than on software 'engineering".         Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 06:05:46 -0700  From: reyes@purdue.edu (Kris)e Subject: time_string function = Message-ID: <ccefa0fb.0106050505.233f2908@posting.google.com>g  A Hello, Can anybody if they are aware of a function time_string(),mF which takes a character array of length 16? Im in charge of convertingC files from created in vms to a differnt file format in winnt, and I 0 cant find anything on this time_string function.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:59:21 +0100-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> C Subject: Re: User sued by DEC, was: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations 8 Message-ID: <o2jehto3lecppgri40ifl1t48loord2h57@4ax.com>  . On 31 May 2001 18:31:25 +0200, Jan Vorbrueggen8 <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:  ( >Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >p? >> That's the point many have made here. They can't use the new-E >> educational licenses or hobby license or do anything else based on"= >> verbal OKs because lawyers can always bite you in the end.e >oH >If he had chosen Germany as the legal venue, his case would likely beenJ >much stronger. Here, a verbal bargain has the same legal standing betweenJ >non-consumers as a written bargain, and given the history as you describe* >it, it seems unlikely DEC could have won.  E But how do you prove you have a verbal agreement? And even if you cantF the lawyers will probably argue (likely correctly) that those who gaveB verbal assurances didn't have the corporate position within DEC to really give this.f     >	Jann   -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:44:10 +0200) From: "Jan Smit" <jboerkamp@nospam.hr.nl>l Subject: Virtual Memory problemy1 Message-ID: <9fid4d$1dq$1@eubuf21.eu.concert.net>a   We have the following problem:  2 We want to share memory between several processes.4 To achieve this, we use PPL$- and LIB$*_VM routines.L It works fine when the shared memory does not exceed the (approx.) 6,900,000 bytes limit.K When we want use more shared memory, we get the message: "%LIB-F-INSVIRMEM,  insufficient virual memory".  L Till now, we are not successfull in increasing the above limit (of 6,900,000	 bytes)...   F We have followed the hints we get from "$ HELP/MESS %lib-f-insvirmem": - We have done the following: 2 - Increased in AUTHORIZE the PGFLQUE  to 150,000 ,9 - Increased the system paging files  to 999936 (blocks) ,=   Additional:=- - Increased in AUTHORIZE the WSQUO  to 15000, 5 - Increased in SYSGEN the WSMAX  to 350000 (pagelets)p   We have not done the following:kJ - Not increased the physical memory, beceause we think that does not solve the problem.J - Not adjusted the SYSGEN-parameter: VIRTUALPAGECNT because this parameter has become obsolete.   Our question is:G Which (AUTHORIZE or SYSGEN) parameter(s) must we adjust to increase thec" Virtualmemory-size of the process?G (The most obvious parameter (VIRTUALPAGECNT) has become obsolete......)e   Additonal information:) Hardware: COMPAQ AlphaServer DS10 466 MHzr  Operating system: OpenVMS v7.1-2 Memory: 512 Mb Swapfile: 71936 blocks Pagefile: 999936 blockse  2 Programming language application: PASCAL (v5.6-59)   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 07:52:11 -0700s* From: polato@igi.pd.cnr.it (Sandro Polato)# Subject: Re: Virtual Memory problemt= Message-ID: <2af2b3d8.0106050652.6a3bd7c7@posting.google.com>,  b "Jan Smit" <jboerkamp@nospam.hr.nl> wrote in message news:<9fid4d$1dq$1@eubuf21.eu.concert.net>...  > We have the following problem: > 4 > We want to share memory between several processes.6 > To achieve this, we use PPL$- and LIB$*_VM routines.N > It works fine when the shared memory does not exceed the (approx.) 6,900,000 > bytes limit.M > When we want use more shared memory, we get the message: "%LIB-F-INSVIRMEM,  > insufficient virual memory". > N > Till now, we are not successfull in increasing the above limit (of 6,900,000 > bytes)...  > H > We have followed the hints we get from "$ HELP/MESS %lib-f-insvirmem": > - We have done the following::2 > - Increased in AUTHORIZE the PGFLQUE  to 150,000  E Try to increase Pgflquo to 500000 in Authorize and, if it works fine,.+ low this limit to a more appropriate value., Hope this can help.r  
 Sandro Polato 3 My favourite freeware for OpenVMS : www.itre.com/mf    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:41:55 -0400s( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com># Subject: Re: Virtual Memory problemw* Message-ID: <3B1D0BD3.3080630@bigfoot.com>  L Make sure to raise  the related PQL_XXX parameters in SYSGEN as well.  And IN would raise the working set extent in authorize to an arbitrarily large value,N and start from there to bring it down.  Also, remember to log out and log backK in before you try testing again, as the UAF is read once at initial processa	 creation.o   HM   Jan Smit wrote:     > We have the following problem: >s4 > We want to share memory between several processes.6 > To achieve this, we use PPL$- and LIB$*_VM routines.N > It works fine when the shared memory does not exceed the (approx.) 6,900,000 > bytes limit.M > When we want use more shared memory, we get the message: "%LIB-F-INSVIRMEM,a > insufficient virual memory". >eN > Till now, we are not successfull in increasing the above limit (of 6,900,000 > bytes)...n >rH > We have followed the hints we get from "$ HELP/MESS %lib-f-insvirmem": > - We have done the following: 4 > - Increased in AUTHORIZE the PGFLQUE  to 150,000 ,; > - Increased the system paging files  to 999936 (blocks) ,n >i
 > Additional:l/ > - Increased in AUTHORIZE the WSQUO  to 15000,a7 > - Increased in SYSGEN the WSMAX  to 350000 (pagelets)e >c! > We have not done the following:pL > - Not increased the physical memory, beceause we think that does not solve > the problem.L > - Not adjusted the SYSGEN-parameter: VIRTUALPAGECNT because this parameter > has become obsolete. >h > Our question is:I > Which (AUTHORIZE or SYSGEN) parameter(s) must we adjust to increase ther$ > Virtualmemory-size of the process?I > (The most obvious parameter (VIRTUALPAGECNT) has become obsolete......)d >i > Additonal information:+ > Hardware: COMPAQ AlphaServer DS10 466 MHzd" > Operating system: OpenVMS v7.1-2 > Memory: 512 Mb > Swapfile: 71936 blocks > Pagefile: 999936 blockso >U4 > Programming language application: PASCAL (v5.6-59)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:04:10 -0400- From: "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com>-' Subject: VMS Cluster Password Question.0/ Message-ID: <thq0mcs7467185@corp.supernews.com>n  
 Hello All.  7 I am adding an Alpha system to my existing VMS cluster.2  E When I do $SYSMAN CONFIG SHOW CLUSTER on the systems currently in the2J cluster, I get Cluster group number, node name, and hardware address info.L What I do not get is the cluster password... supposedly because the password+ is the same on all current cluster members.   L What I am getting at here is this.  When I add the new node to the cluster -K and specify a cluster password - I must then go change the cluster passwordu; on all the other nodes in the cluster so the all sync up...n  G Is there a way to find out what the current cluster password is??  I amt guessing that there is not.s   Thanks everyone.   Todd Nelsona   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:43:04 GMTa1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> + Subject: Re: VMS Cluster Password Question.s2 Message-ID: <3B1D0D2C.86A2EA01@clarityconnect.com>  D Correct, there is no way to find the current password, that's why itC needs to be recorded someplace by the system admins.  The encryptedbF password is stored in CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DAT thus you should be able toH figure out ways to copy this file to the proper place on the new clusterE members system disk.  Of course if the new cluster member is going toRE use an existing common system disk then you don't have to worry abouta it.>   Todd Nelson wrote: >  > Hello All. > 9 > I am adding an Alpha system to my existing VMS cluster.  > G > When I do $SYSMAN CONFIG SHOW CLUSTER on the systems currently in thebL > cluster, I get Cluster group number, node name, and hardware address info.N > What I do not get is the cluster password... supposedly because the password- > is the same on all current cluster members.a > N > What I am getting at here is this.  When I add the new node to the cluster -M > and specify a cluster password - I must then go change the cluster passwordn= > on all the other nodes in the cluster so the all sync up...  > I > Is there a way to find out what the current cluster password is??  I ame > guessing that there is not.r >  > Thanks everyone. > 
 > Todd Nelson-   -- DD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:20:50 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)+ Subject: Re: VMS Cluster Password Question.o3 Message-ID: <Sx8T6.1047$fi2.27809@news.cpqcorp.net>n  _ In article <thq0mcs7467185@corp.supernews.com>, "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> writes:b  ) :When I add the new node to the cluster --  5   Adding a new system disk to the cluster, obviously.   L :and specify a cluster password - I must then go change the cluster password< :on all the other nodes in the cluster so the all sync up... : B :Is there a way to find out what the current cluster password is??# :I am guessing that there is not...0  E   No, you cannot get the cleartext current password, as it is hashed.c  C   That said, you can copy over the hashed password value by copyingeE   the existing CLSNOD::SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DAT over bD   to the new node NEWNODE::SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DAT.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 12:53:14 -0500e9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)-B Subject: Who gets blamed for faulty software (was: A New Twist...)3 Message-ID: <UIM$YlAiJBWk@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  a In article <9fj0gt$1cq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:rv > In article <zaOS6.21551$zl5.6585942@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >>L >>If I was King, er, Capellas For a Day, my first edict would be to find the6 >>corporate graphics person responsible for the gaffe. > M > HP has a method of reducing the size of groups by sending out a notice thatnF > "you have N weeks to find a job in another group inside HP or you'reH > terminated".  This is nicer than just a pink slip, and tends to retain1 > skilled workers.  Does the Q do the same thing?-  8 DEC did when they were laying people off some years ago.  J > PacBell once put a bit of code into production which was supposed to notJ > charge for telephone calls lasting fewer than 5 seconds.  The idea beingK > that these were wrong numbers and shouldn't be charged.  It worked like alF > charm but unfortunately the code did not check the minutes and hoursI > fields, and it took the company more days than they had backup tapes to L > figure out that their income had suddently dropped to 55/60 of what it hadI > been, and to trace down the cause.  As a consequence the good people of G > California were graced with several million dollars of free telephone M > service.  Once PacBell figured out the problem heads rolled like it was the)M > French revolution, with everybody even remotely responsible being shown the > > door - including managers many levels above the programmer.   C Certainly the programmer was just behaving as was the accepted norm G for the programming group.  If the company as a practice omitted formalcE inspection and design review of crucial applications, it is those whocE managed the software development environment who are at fault.  There D are sometimes arguments as to what is a "crucial application", but I@ bet I could get the PacBell CEO to agree that anything affecting" revenue like that was critical :-)  5 I don't think the picture on the VMS box is critical.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:32:12 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <4n8pht0u1k4s914dvfmstfuqvalkf9us1h@4ax.com>  E On 4 Jun 2001 08:55:29 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t wrote:& d two Frenchmen to negotiate the canal5 >treaty, took them generations to get the thing back.  >iG >Who has the authority in Britain?  What would Parliment do if a treaty , >was negotiated which Parliment didn't like?  F Parliament can in theory block a treaty negotiated by a prime ministerE but in reality both houses can really only delay. The lords can blockbD a bill twice but the commons can then use "The Parliament Act" whichC guarantees the supremacy of the elected (as opposed to appointed or D limited remaining hereditary peers) house to force the bill through.C Should the commons attempt to block ratification the government hasuE the option of combining the vote with a "vote of confidence". If thisoF fails then the government will normally fall and a general election isC called. In general party rebels are not willing to bring  their owni> government down. In a very close or minority government it hasE happened though. With the current huge Labour majority (and projectedaD one in Thursdays elections if the polls are right) even a very large2 rebellion is unlikely to defeat a government bill.   >aG >----------------------------------------------------------------------d@ >Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation> >NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupF >                                | please remove ".aspm" when replying   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:00:52 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <s1apht0rrjiv5lbj20j8lm6lgoot6oqrec@4ax.com>  @ On 4 Jun 2001 18:25:16 GMT, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:  , >Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: >>Robert Deininger wrote:l >>> <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:m > F >>> > The consequences of Bush's "strategy" are 1000 new nuclear powerE >>> > stations within the USA and exploration and exploitation of oilp> >>> > fields in Alaska with destroying protected nature areas. >>> N >>> Sorry Christof, you're way out on this.  There aren't likely to be any newN >>> nuclear power stations here any time soon.  Perhaps a few will appear, theE >>> 1000 is a totally absurd number.  The U.S. public is (sadly) veryoL >>> anti-nuclear due to the past few decades of propaganda they've absorbed. > @ >>This number was presented in the press as a explicit statement >>of the Bush administration.,4 >>I wonder why you didn't talk about the oil fields. >-@ >The scuttlebutt seems to be that the Alaskan oil fields will be= >the sacrificial lamb to get the rest of Bush's plan through.-  ) [View from a major oil industry supplier]   @ Interestingly the oil industry in non-OPEC countries allowed two? critical figures to drop to their lowest level in over 20 yearsdC recently. These are "active rig count" and "standby rig count". OilfF companies have not been replacing worn out rigs or bringing new fieldsE on stream anywhere as fast as planned. Up until a couple of years ago D the major oil companies increased production to match any OPEC cuts.E They easily have the slack to do this but have not only not done thiscE time but they have actually *delayed* scheduled new wells. This hurtstF oil industry supply companies heavily (and I work for one). The formalE reason they first gave us for delaying orders was "it is not economicrD at the current oil price" and then when the price rocketed: "we needF to complete our merger consolidation first". Meanwhile they are makingC record profits and we are forced to reduce headcount. The last timeoF oil companies were so big and powerful the US split them up. I predictD it won't be long before Exxon gas stations start displaying the EssoA (S.O - Standard Oil) logo again. Remember that in the UK and most F other places the "Esso" logo never went away. Oil companies can wait a very long time...   E There are internal oil industry stats that you can use to predict the,F price of oil quite accurately. Despite the current high oil prices theC oil companies are holding new activity at about 30% below the leveleC the graphs predict are needed to bring the oil price back to around0@ $20.. Current forward orders indicate that the oil companies are> aiming to slowly return to normal around the end of this year,     -- Alan   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:08:05 +0000 (UTC)' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)l2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fieil$i2i$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  c In article <hJ6NfbED3axM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e] >In article <3B197167.32130257@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  >> iE >Lots of people, in fact, have the authority to negotiate.  What theyyG >don't have is the authority to ratify.  Why should we trust one personl >with so much power?   >tC >Look at Panama, which trusted two Frenchmen to negotiate the canali5 >treaty, took them generations to get the thing back.  >nG >Who has the authority in Britain?  What would Parliment do if a treaty0, >was negotiated which Parliment didn't like? >j  D What happens is that the government forces it through by linking theK ratification to a vote of no confidence in the government. Hence the ruling A party's MPs are all whipped into line and the treaty is ratified.i  B As I recall this is what John Major did with the Mastricht treaty.  N In Britain it is generally the case that the ruling party has the majority of = the MPs and hence can force through legislation in this way. w    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jun 2001 14:54:04 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?- Message-ID: <87n17nquwj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>6  4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  6 > In article <3B1871C6.BE00142@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e   > > Robert Deininger wrote:h  F > > > But alas, much less energy efficient.  And the jury is still out, > > > on the harm done (if any) by the CFCs.  B > > I suggest you go to Australia or even Canada during our summer0 > > before you say this. The ozone hole is real.  ? > Yes, it is.  But its cause(s) are not understood.  Laboratorys> > studies do not necessarily reflect what happens in the upper> > atmosphere.  Proof that CFCs are responsible for the hole is> > somewhere between weak and nonexistent, from what I've read.@ > Politically-motivated full-page adverts by celebrity "experts" > notwithstanding.  D The ClO reactions are very well understood, and *have* been verifiedB by US flights onto the southern Polar Vortex some years ago. Their results agree with lab work.  B > > Remember those science fiction movies where humans had to liveF > > underground with pale skins because they can't go outdoors ? Well,F > > it has gotten to a point when you can't go outdoors unless you are- > > covered with clothing or put on sunblock.e  @ > Please give me the numbers.  By what percentage is UV exposureB > increased at various wavelengths beneath the "hole", compared toB > beneath "normal" atmosphere?  I am very skeptical of your claim.C > Extrapolation from science-fiction movies does not convince me ofaB > much.  Unless it means there should be a tax on the intellectual0 > pollution caused by movies.  (Just kidding ;-)  E 400-1500% depending on time, place and year. The CSIRO did a plankton F survey in Spring some years ago. They discovered a precipitous drop inD numbers in the upper water layers. This corresponded to the southern+ 'hole' within a few Km over a 4-500 Km run.p  D You really need to update on this Rob, the evidence is solidly in onE O3 depletion in the south. Arctic depletion still seems to have a few B tricks up its sleeve, as it has not been as severe as early models
 predicted.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.d@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:56:36 +0100w/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?7 Message-ID: <009FD147.6AD43B4F.16@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>   L > Maybe someone who really knows trains will chime in, but I will add my two	 > cents. r > K > Hybrid propulsion systems probably aren't very fuel efficient compared to.H > straight diesels.  A freight train needs engines with HUGE torque whenL > starting up, but needs to get up to high speed as well. I think this wouldG > be hard to do with a transmission - conventional ones would turn into F > twisted lumps from the load of a locomotive.  I think electic motorsK > handle the range of loads better, and avoid the need for a transmission. tI > A tranmission is probably possible, but it would be very big and heavy.s > J > I don't seem the same advantage for a hybrid car.  It's almost certainly) > less energy efficient than a gas one.      NO!b  C The advantages are rather different. An internal-combustion-enginedsK car has to have an engine that can deliver many horsepower for accelerationEK and for going steep uphill with maximum load. Almost all the time when it'seJ simply maintaining continuous velocity on a flat road, it's workiong at a > few percent of maximum. And this is intrinsically inefficient.  J In a hybrid car, peak power comes out of batteries. Batteries and electricL motors are extremely good at bursts of high power, and electrical propulsion< is extremely efficient across a wide range of power outputs.  H However, big enough batteries for a decent range are ridiculously heavy H (and therefore lugging them around wastes energy). Hence the hybrid car.@ It has a  gasoline engine designed to run at one fixed speed andH power output, which charges the batteries until they are full then shutsJ down. It's designed for efficiency, not flexibility. The flexibility comesI from the electrical propulsion and the reserve of power in the batteries.c  J The Toyota Prius is on sale, it has about the same performance as a normalM compact car but getting on for twice the fuel economy. Subsequent developmentdI of the technology may improve on this. (And I hope that someone will soontE launch a hybrid 4WD. That's 4WD with independant computer-controlled sI electric power to each wheel. Should wipe mechanical 4WD off the face of iG the planet, at least for the folks who have 4WD because they *need* it!oL A hybrid "exotic" sports car also has considerable potential for 0-silly mphC in very few seconds, and might still leave space for some luggage!)C    I As for fuel cells: another misconception is apparent here. There are many K fuel cell technologies under development that don't need dangerous hydrogen J or oxygen tanks. They run on fuel such as methanol, or even gasoline, plusL oxygen from the air. They produce electricity at high percentage efficiency J from the fuel (better than any engine), and only water and CO2 as output.   L There's also an electricity storage technology in the works, sort of halfwayI between a battery and a fuel cell. Two liquids flow across opposite sides F of a membrane, releasing electricity and "discharging" the liquids. OrL vice versa: reverse the flow, push in electricity, and recharge the liquids.G This should make alternative energy sources such as tidal/wind/wave fareK more attractive, as the electricity they generate *can* now be stored untilhM it's needed. It may also have automotive application, though refuelling wouldt= be a bit more complex (two tanks to empty and two to fill).       & OK: so much for facts, now my opinion.  L Global warming is an unproved hypothesis, but it is impossible to argue thatN CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and if we wait to find out whether global warming is J a true hypothesis rather than a plausible one it will be *too late* to do H anything about the consequences. And interestingly, if you look at some N contour maps, the USA has an awful lot to lose. Work out the value of all the I real estate on the USA eastern seaboard at an elevation of less than 10m   above sea-level! -  J So in my book, we should be doing all we can to reduce CO2 output, and theH USA, as the world's richest and most powerful nation, should be leading.I Unfortunately it isn't; rather the Bush administration is showing all thecL leadership quality of a terrible-two-year-old (ie throwing a massive tantrumJ because mum has tried to tell him that drinking bleach really isn't a good idea).  I Hopefully sanity will prevail. The world still has a few decades to averteK disaster, and oil will *start* running out before then. This will naturallyhK provide the price pressure that USA politicians are singularly unwilling tosJ countenance providing by taxation. (See www.hubbertpeak.com if you want to) know what I mean by *start* running out).d  K the only complete disaster will be if the developed world takes the line ofhF economic least resistance, and just switches from oil-burning back to L coal-burning with no change in its increasefully profligate usage of energy.  L And some free advice: don't buy any property built on land at low elevation.N Its value will plummet decades in advance of any anticipated future salt-water
 flooding!    	Yours,r
 		Nigel Arnoti- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   n  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."m   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:03:31 -0500e- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <MV72sWuuTLUB@eisner.encompasserve.org>W  [ In article <3B1B973D.DB506889@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:c > E > Like the M$ debate, the issue is not who *NEEDS* an SUV. The issue,yG > IMHO, is that people DON'T WANT little rice-burning wimp-mobiles thatiJ > can't even get out of their own way, especially at a corner where you'reG > trying to turn and can't see around the {SUV,VAN,pick-up truck, etc.} 
 > beside you.  >   G Nonsense.  Toyota Prius and Honda Insights have a reputation aroud herekD for being driven by some of the local commuting speed deamons.  TheyH must, of course, finish their commute well before real rush hour starts,< during which no vehicle spends much time at the speed limit.  H And my somewhat older rice burner with it's little 4 cylinder engine hasC no trouble keeping up with the gas hogs, I just push the throttle aiE little closer to the floor than they are willing to.  Seats my familyr& of 5 just fine, too (widest in class).  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinga   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:06:18 -0500a- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <Dur9aHlBaB7Q@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <9fg7uu$2shr$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > @ > And no, it's not a rice burner.  It's a Triumph Spitfire.  :-) >   C And it runs long enough that you can tell how well it accelerates? fB (Never had anything mehcanical and British run very long, myself.)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouptE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:09:06 -0500-- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <ENE4ZVv1X3z9@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  ` In article <9fg9h2$2tju$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  D > Whereas coal ash stays carcinogenic forever.  I can't believe thatF > people actually still use coal to heat their homes and the idea thatD > people want more plants burning this rubbish is truly frightening.  D Not to mention the amount of unregulated radioactivity escaping from fossil fuel power plants.     8 If it came out of the ground, it has some radioactivity.  F But if coal fumes bother you, aren't you worried about the undergroundA fires smoldering for decades in the Scranton - Wilkes Barre area?i  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationm= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupiE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:24:24 -0500b- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <Wm92VnkRP9hu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3B1BD415.7E88EEB@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:d > Bob Koehler wrote:G >> Lots of people, in fact, have the authority to negotiate.  What they-I >> don't have is the authority to ratify.  Why should we trust one person  >> with so much power? > O > The problem is one of internal process. Are you going to sign the contract tooN > purchase 100 Alpha servers without first having had agreement from your beanP > counters ? Do you go back to Compaq once you signed on the dotted line to tellP > them that your bean counter have refused the deal and that they should tear up > the papers ? >   E So you're saying our process is backwards?  The Sentate should ratifyrB the treaty before it's written and then hope the President gets it right?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationx= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingy   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:27:56 -0500t- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <EheDNSdechfJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  b In article <3b1be9c2$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes: > N > GM has recently developed a battery/electric motor pair that doesn't requireL > recharging the batteries by plugging them in somewhere.  The batteries areM > constantly being recharged.  It was on the news this morning.  Who knows if-) > it will every be used in an automobile.r  A Nothing new here.  For decades researchers have used regenerativeo? breaking in their test electic vehicles.  Toyota and Honda havedC actual hybrid vehicles on the market which you can't plug in if youf
 wanted to.  * GM has excuses.  Toyota has waiting lists.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationc= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupeE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:30:57 -0500I- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <Xogm75Ao4Ulu@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  \ In article <3B1C08D0.A186FD8E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > O > The beauty of hydrogen is that it can be transported fairly cheaply on trainsiO > etc, whereas it costs to transport electricity over great distances (loss due ' > to resistance on transmission lines)..  I The problem is I need a SUV-sized hydrogen tank to have the same range aswE my little 14 gal (US) gasoline tank.  (OK, I'm exagerating slightly).o  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationr= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupsE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:33:46 -0500y- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <4bRe6GtwFqvU@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  [ In article <3B1C4A65.AA335F5B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:9 > H > Families don't *require* "oversized" cars, they just want to feel safeA > and that they can accelerate and merge safely onto the highway.l >   C Gee, I hope they're not looking to full size pickup trucks for that B feeling.  I wonder when the insurance group is going to test those hefty-looking SUVs?d   I feel much safer in my Camry.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupsE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:27:31 +0100r  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?H Message-ID: <OF4118F03E.D586F273-ON80256A62.0043C01B@qedi.quintiles.com>  C Something I'm not clear on with this thread (which isn't really VMSh' related, unless - let's not go there) :sH In the UK, hydro-electric power plants use water to drive turbines.  Th= isH is the principle used in one of the Welsh plants (whose name escapes me=  attF the moment) in which water drives the turbines at high demand and thenH during off-peak periods when electricity is cheap the water is pumped b= acko to the top of the plant.E The power during the off-peak periods would, of course, come from thecH base-load stations which are primarily nuclear or coal burning stations= .<  H Now why Quebec would become the OPEC of hydrogen in this is the thing I= 'mH not clear on.  With a pump storage scheme (like the one described above= ) orH any other hydro-electric plant as described in the UK the hydrogen and = the H oxygen don't dissociate - they remain as two hydrogen atoms bonded to o= neH of oxygen.  The chances of Quebec becoming the OPEC of H2O are slim, to=  say the least..... Steve.  ! Malcolm Dunnett quote J-F Mezei :t >>> H > Cheap abundant hydro electric power from Qu=E9bec. Qu=E9bec would bec= ome thes OPEC > of hydrogen :-) :-) :-)n >s  H     Until the first nations that claim Hydro Quebec has flooded their l= andy: win their court cases and make them take the dams down :-)  H     How many more dams would be required to get the energy the hydrogen=  E production plants would require? How much more land would that flood?e. How long do the dams last before they silt up? <<<=   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 08:36:11 -0500s- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <riOOdRrkiQ31@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  V In article <4JUN200123413509@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: > @ > If they want to make them more desireable, clearly they should > make a hybrid SUV. x  G Ford and GM claim to be working on hybrid SUVs and hybrid mid-size carsU- instead of following Toyota and Honda's lead.e  B Somehow I suspect if they bring one of those SUVs to the market, IA won't want to take it off road or ride through an accident in it.v  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationh= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jun 2001 21:07:53 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?- Message-ID: <87elszqdli.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  . "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com> writes:  F > Solar is clean...if you ignore the costs to make the collectors, and@ > ignore the amount of area that has to be covered in collectorsE > (instead of plants or whatnot) to use it. In mid latitudes there iscC > as I recall a factor of 11 you need to account for night, clouds,:@ > etc. in energy collection, times the inefficiencies of storingA > energy, times those of the collectors themselves. The land areaDA > problem might be partly solved by making road surfaces be solary4 > collectors but the area needed is probably larger.  F The cost of solar cells is more a problem of scale than anything else.A Noone manafactures SCs on an industrial scale yet. A study at UnisB Sydney showed that large scale production of a structural SC wouldB produce power at ~ 3c/KWHr. A large part of the cost reduction wasD designing it as a roofing material, so it was installed AS the roof, not over it.  ; The other way, is solar produced H2, that is piped to small D powerstations in the city providing energy and water in one hit. The" piping has issues at the moment...   -- y< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:41:56 -0500'1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1CE1A4.BCE9F2CE@fsi.net>    Peter Weaver wrote:e > H > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message  > news:3b1be9c2$1@news.si.com...H > > >Note that electric cars may be neat, but you still need to generate > theu > > >electricity somewhere.g > >tH > > GM has recently developed a battery/electric motor pair that doesn't	 > requiret@ > > recharging the batteries by plugging them in somewhere.  The > batteries areaF > > constantly being recharged.  It was on the news this morning.  Who
 > knows if+ > > it will every be used in an automobile.d > C > Trying to stay away from this thread but; Honda already has theiri! > version on the market. It is at H > http://english.honda.ca/models/insight.asp, part of the page says "TheG > future of cars is here. It's the Honda Insight. North America's firstoD > gasoline - electric hybrid automobile. And it's nothing short of aG > technological breakthrough. It offers an incredible 3.2 litres/100 km4F > on the highway, 3.9 litres/100 km in the city and an unheard of 1250D > km range on one tank of fuel. The Insight is also designed to meetG > California's stringent Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV) standard. SoeE > it not only performs well on the road but also on the environment."n > F > I'll leave it to someone else to translate 3.2 l/100 KM to American.E > I'm seriously considering this as my next car, but the local dealer H > says every one they get in goes right out the door to a customer. IIRC, > there is a 8 month waiting list currently.  D Found this by way of AOL today (yeah, I know...). Forgot to note who actually did the review:  
 Honda InsighteG This car's mileage ratings of 68 mpg on the highway, 61 in city driving.D might look like a mistake at first, but it's for real. The secret toA this car's mileage is the assist the gasoline engine gets from an H electric motor. The 3-cylinder gasoline engine divides it's work betweenG powering the wheels directly and charging the batteries for an electric E motor that takes over part of the workload as the situation demands. I  F Our test drive produced a lower, but still pretty amazing, 50 mph. YouA never have to wonder how you are doing on mileage since you get amD constant digital readout. Good-looking in a "retro" sort of way, theE $19,420 Insight can cruise at 70 mph easily and rides reasonably welliG for a little car. The one big drawback: where you'd usually find a backrF seat there's a bunch of batteries. That limits the Insight to carrying! two people and very little gear. y   --   David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:01:11 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1CE627.C1ED61F7@fsi.net>d   JF Mezei wrote:t > [snip]S > I do not buy arguments that you need to accelerate from 0 to 100kms in 6 seconds.u  H You have obviously never attempted a rush-hour commute in Metro Chicago.B Before they come to a flying stop, traffic typically moves well inG excess of 120km/h (circa. 75 mph, well in excess of the posted limit of G 55). In areas further out (toward the fringe of "suburban sprawl"), thewE posted limit goes to 65 mph; speeds there are much higher, upwards ofc 130 km/h (or circa. 85 mph).  H You either crank that puppy up and keep pace with the nuts or you becomeE the cause of a widow(er)-making chain reaction pile-up that makes thetF evening (or possibly national) news, or the target of mass road rage -C either way you will lose. Please don't try to play footsie with big D trucks who want to exceed the limit, either - it's like dancing with) railroad trains: you will lose, big time.n  F ...especially if you're driving what the CB'ers used to call a "roller skate".   G ...and that doesn't begin to mention the merge question (which is whereD2 you really need the "neck-snapping" acceleration).  G The issues are neither economic, ecological, legal nor egotistical. The*B issue is safety - period, perceived or otherwise not withstanding.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:07:15 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1CE793.5B8FAD04@fsi.net>f   Bob Koehler wrote: > ] > In article <3B1C4A65.AA335F5B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:- > >-J > > Families don't *require* "oversized" cars, they just want to feel safeC > > and that they can accelerate and merge safely onto the highway.e > >  > E > Gee, I hope they're not looking to full size pickup trucks for thatrD > feeling.  I wonder when the insurance group is going to test those > hefty-looking SUVs?@  B I believe they already have, for rating and underwriting purposes.  O  > I feel much safer in my Camry.  B OH! Then, you don't want to hear about my experiences locally withD people who drive Camrys. Basically, they're on a par with people whoG drive a Grand Prix. If you don't already know, just look at the name oftG the car and pronounce it in English instead of French (where the "x" isd silent, sort of).l  D I would hope that you're a more careful, considerate driver than the! typical Chicago-area Camry owner.-   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:20:12 -0500u1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B1CEA9C.4712F482@fsi.net>r   Carl Perkins wrote:t > [snip]E > P.S. In spite of your constant pointless complaingin about them andmD >      claims to the contrary, not everyone in the US has an SUV. InH >      fact, the vast majority of the population does not own one, leaseD >      one, or rent one. Most people couldn't afford to buy one even >      if they wanted to.g  H The last figure I heard (CNN?) for SUV ownership was on the order of 20%B nationwide, which I believe includes small pick-ups and some vans.  H That leaves 80% of the U.S. motoring public still peering around SUVs atG corners and intersections and hoping an SUV doesn't plow into them at aa  stop light or other obstruction.  F By the way - my wife and I lease a Ford Explorer. The sticker price isF somewhere in the $23,000 range. She had a Bronco-II before that, and a@ Chevy Cavalier before that. The Cav got clobbered broadside by aF full-size car running a red light and she was lucky to escape with her? life and her mobility intact. *THAT* is why she wanted the SUV.   D My complaint with regard to fuel economy is that the damn things areE geared for snow plowing and trailer pulling, somewhere around 4.35 or>G so. 3.70 to 3.20 would be more appropriate for less "utility" use, IMO.o  , Of course, and as always, YMMV considerably.   -- s David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 10:19:31 -0400 / From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)G2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?* Message-ID: <9fippj$d92$1@lisa.gemair.com>  + In article <9fgj3v$3lv$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>,-'  <system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote::4 >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >>andrew harrison wrote: >>> Jordan Henderson wrote:s7 >>> > andrew harrison  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote:  >n@ >Just to reiterate, nearly all atmospheric scientists agree thatA >global warming has occured.  IMHO those who don't are in denial.a >r  E Perhaps.  But, are they taking into account the recent evidence that  8 global warming estimates might be exaggerated by 40% or  more?  r  8 	http://www.heartland.org/environment/apr01/evidence.htm  B When this is taken into account, the "dramatic" rise that has been4 reported falls back more into the category of noise.  C >What is less universally agreed upon is whether the global warmingeE >that has occured in the last 100 years or so is due to human causes.h >e  C Indeed.  Like the evidence that global warming is more effected by -
 solar cycles:-  3 	http://www.globalwarming.org/sciup/sci12-27-00.htm 3 	http://www.globalwarming.org/sciup/sci8-22-99.htmlw) 	http://www.vision.net.au/~daly/solar.htm   K >>> Rubbish, the developed world produces over 90% of the worlds greenhouse-H >>> gasses, with the US being by far the largest contributor. Even underF >>> the limitted terms agreed at Kyoto the US would still be by far inI >>> a way the largest producer of greenhouse gasses on a per capita basist >>> in 20 years time.@ >eB >>I've yet to see a satisfactory answer to the question of whetherJ >>so-called "greenhouse" gasses are a cause or an effect. That is, does anH >>elevation in the presence of such gasses lead to a rise in atmosphericF >>heat absorption and/or retention, or does an over-abundance of solarF >>heating result in an acceleration of the processes which elevate theG >>levels of those gasses in the atmosphere, or both (a self-propagatingiF >>"loop" beyond the control or influence of any single factor, or evenC >>multiple factors that might debatably be influenced by industrialr >>development)?  >gC >Historically we don't know.  We do know that temperature has been  = >correlated with CO2 and other greenhouse gasses for the last- >400 thousand years or so. >   E Temperature has been much more highly correlated with solar activity:   8 	http://www.co2science.org/subject/s/summaries/solar.htm  A >We also know that, all other things being equal, an increase in A/ >greenhouse gasses /will/ increase temperature.p >f  ; Of course, in a complex system all other things are rarely rH equal.  CO2 is not a very powerful influence as far as greenhouse gases H goes.  Water vapor is a much greater influence on the greenhouse effect I and there is evidence that increased CO2 may increase efficiency in some g3 plants which will cause a reduction in water vapor:c  3 	http://www.co2science.org/journal/2001/v4n22b1.htm-3 	http://www.co2science.org/journal/2001/v4n22b3.htm   A The fact that we don't have good models for what's going on wouldSA encourage a scientiest (as opposed to a politician) to caution in > this area.  For example, current conservation proposals might ! actually exacerbate any problems:   0 	http://www.globalwarming.org/science/nohelp.htm  A Also, efforts targeted at other gasses may be far more effective.D  8 	http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/forcings/altscenario/  H >We also know that we are at or near record levels of CO2 and at least a" >couple of other greenhouse gases. >sJ >>Regardless of whether greenhouse gasses are a cause or an effect, I dareI >>say that volcanism, a process well beyond the control of any life form,=J >>contributes more to the levels of such gasses on a world-wide scale than6 >>any local concentrations due to industrial activity. >a@ >Human CO2 output is roughly 4% of the total natural CO2 output.E >Since 1958 or so the levels of CO2 levels have been going up fairly oJ >consistantly over that period, even though from what I gather there have D >been very few (historically speaking) volcanoes during that period. >a1 >http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming/faq/iheard.htmlc= >http://faculty.quinnipiac.edu/health/biology/buckley/bi_101/  >   biomonitoring/sld003.htm4 >http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/seminars/990923FO.html8 >http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/meth/methane_intr.htm . >http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/meth/ch4.htm > - >Do you have any sources for your statements?  >  >Robert Morphis    -Jordan Hendersone jordan@greenapple.com9   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:32:20 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?) Message-ID: <3B1CED74.5A56D03B@bbc.co.uk>    Carl Perkins wrote:u  ; > The 3.2 liters per 100 km is about 73.5 miles per gallon,a; > the 3.9 l/100 km is about 60.3 mpg, and the 1250 km range  > is nearly 777 miles. >e@ > If they want to make them more desireable, clearly they should > make a hybrid SUV.   or raise the price of gas.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk@  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:46:36 -06004 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?0 Message-ID: <oh6T6.30$Io6.63049@news.uswest.net>  I Toyota (Prius) has one as well.  The city of Denver, CO just bought 34 of-I the Toyota versions.  The Honda is a two door while the Toyota Prius is 4oG door.  It's milage is 45 Highway 50 City and it has a 10Gal tank.  Thisg? technology definitely needs to be scaled up to larger vehicles.  --
 Mike Ober.  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message& news:4JUN200123413509@gerg.tamu.edu...3 > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes....D > }Trying to stay away from this thread but; Honda already has their" > }version on the market. It is atI > }http://english.honda.ca/models/insight.asp, part of the page says "TheoH > }future of cars is here. It's the Honda Insight. North America's firstE > }gasoline - electric hybrid automobile. And it's nothing short of a)H > }technological breakthrough. It offers an incredible 3.2 litres/100 kmG > }on the highway, 3.9 litres/100 km in the city and an unheard of 1250eE > }km range on one tank of fuel. The Insight is also designed to meetmH > }California's stringent Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV) standard. SoF > }it not only performs well on the road but also on the environment." > } G > }I'll leave it to someone else to translate 3.2 l/100 KM to American. F > }I'm seriously considering this as my next car, but the local dealerI > }says every one they get in goes right out the door to a customer. IIRC~- > }there is a 8 month waiting list currently.s >e; > The 3.2 liters per 100 km is about 73.5 miles per gallon,r; > the 3.9 l/100 km is about 60.3 mpg, and the 1250 km rangea > is nearly 777 miles. >s@ > If they want to make them more desireable, clearly they should > make a hybrid SUV. >m
 > --- Carl >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 10:37:02 -0400)/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?* Message-ID: <9fiqqe$eq4$1@lisa.gemair.com>  , In article <3B1BF31A.99D7B93C@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:w >"David J. Dachtera" wrote:eJ >> When one element of such an equation changes, the whole tends to find a) >> new point of equilibrium, does it not?f >nM >Yes. but it takes a while for the equilibrium to be reached, and during that.K >time, things can get very hectic. And if the new equilibrium from a warmeriM >planet means that the polar icecaps melted to some extent, it means that the N >oceans will have higher levels. Cities on the shores of the oceans will startU >by having more and more flooding and eventually will loose parts of their territory.t >pK >How much will it cost to protect Manhattan from floods whenever there is anO >storm ? How much to protect Hong Kong, Amsterdam ? Los angeles, San Francico ,e4 >Seattle ? Sydney ? Auckland ? (list goes on an on). >eI >If taking relatively small lifestyle changes now means that we can avoidoK >having to deal with major problems later, the actions should be taken now.hM >This si where the mentality of the current US adminstrators that no americaneO >should "suffer" due to restrictions on fuel and that americans muct be able tot1 >maintain their current lifestyle is veryu wrong.a >rN >The current lifestyle is not sustainable. Some changes to it must be made forR >it to be sustainable. The more you wait, the greater the changes will have to be.  ! Sounds like Chicken Little to me.a  H The current thinking amoung climate experts is that melting of the polarL icecaps would require an average change of 4 degrees C.  The measured changeL in the last 100 years is 0.6 degrees C, and recent evidence states that this may be as much as 40% too high.,  + Sources available for the above on request.e   -Jordan Hendersonh jordan@greenapple.comI   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 09:41:29 CDTa= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.021386.killspam.015b (Wayne Sewell)d2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?. Message-ID: <5T7WaDRtCcRJ@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  \ In article <3B1BFD9D.118E05F6@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:nJ >> See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children withN >> the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another baby> >> in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus. > L > Funnyt how , outside the USA, families have no problems with regular sizedG > cars, and it is only in the USA that families require oversized cars.e    N Are parents in all these other countries required to have the child/baby seats2 mentioned above?  Those can take up a lot of room.   -- lO ===============================================================================tM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxa: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)nO ===============================================================================dK Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!!oO    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:53:38 +0100-- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?) Message-ID: <3B1CF271.2141D951@bbc.co.uk>r   Bob Koehler wrote:  b > In article <9fg7uu$2shr$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >aB > > And no, it's not a rice burner.  It's a Triumph Spitfire.  :-) > >o >yD > And it runs long enough that you can tell how well it accelerates?D > (Never had anything mehcanical and British run very long, myself.) >c    did you ever try French? :-)h  D Tim, Citroen XM driver. Hey, its a big car for the UK, and a pain toF park in the city, but it takes guitar cases width-ways in the boot:-)./ Just wish the parts weren't so hard to come by..   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk)  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofl MedAS or the BBC.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:50:01 +0100k- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?) Message-ID: <3B1CF199.6052C792@bbc.co.uk>    "D.Webb" wrote:'   >i >oO > In Britain it is generally the case that the ruling party has the majority of > > the MPs and hence can force through legislation in this way. >l >r  ? How one can actually govern if this is not the case elludes me.e  9 Tim, biting his lip, hoping one day the USA will grow up.m   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofg MedAS or the BBC.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:05:41 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>-2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?) Message-ID: <3B1CF545.2B0B9A8F@bbc.co.uk>e   Bob Koehler wrote:  ] > In article <3B1BD415.7E88EEB@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:o > > Bob Koehler wrote:I > >> Lots of people, in fact, have the authority to negotiate.  What theyfK > >> don't have is the authority to ratify.  Why should we trust one personu > >> with so much power? > >hQ > > The problem is one of internal process. Are you going to sign the contract to P > > purchase 100 Alpha servers without first having had agreement from your beanR > > counters ? Do you go back to Compaq once you signed on the dotted line to tellR > > them that your bean counter have refused the deal and that they should tear up > > the papers ? > >o >oG > So you're saying our process is backwards?  The Sentate should ratifyyD > the treaty before it's written and then hope the President gets it > right? >r  =  No, your president should have the confidence of and control  of the legislative bodies.  9 Well, at least you HAVE a constitution :-). However, many'= North Americans do seem to forget their origins and what they-; destroyed, enslaved, abused etc to make what they have now.m   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofg MedAS or the BBC.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:01:56 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605085055.00aae5a8@ntbsod.psccos.com>  6 In article <3B1BFD9D.118E05F6@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei & <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   > > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:]L > >> See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children withL > >> the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another  > baby@ > >> in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus. > >nN > > Funnyt how , outside the USA, families have no problems with regular sizedI > > cars, and it is only in the USA that families require oversized cars.   N Also funny how the people outside the USA eat different foods, speak differentK languages, have a different legal system, have a different government, haveeG different street names, have different health care systems, name their t children* differently, play different sports, etc...  L I personally am tired of the "Blame the USA First" crowd, particularly thoseJ WITHIN the US.  Just because European countries are quite content to allowI their respective governments to gouge them for exorbitant gasoline taxes,eI doesn't mean that they're doing that right.  It just means the people areS9 lemmings for allowing their governments to do it to them.e  K I own 2 SUV's and a 9 1/2 ton, 37' long motorhome.  I can afford to pay for L the gas, so that's my concern.  If others don't want to buy an SUV, good forJ them.  I don't begrudge that to them.  But frankly, it's nobody's businessK other than my own what I drive and why I drive it - and it's not within theMJ purview of ANYBODY to dictate to me what I should drive.   But if it seemsL germane, I drive SUV's because they give me and mine a MUCH better chance ofM surviving a crash with a rice burner.  It may sound callous, but I believe ineH "me first" - if I'm going to be in an accident, I want to have the best  possibleO chance of surviving it.  If my SUV give me that chance, that's what I'll drive.mK I really don't believe in the idea of "dumbing down" SUV's so they give thesM rice-burners "an even break" in an accident.  If the rice-burner drivers wantf$ that even break, let 'em buy an SUV.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 15:08:16 GMTs1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fisl0$134b$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <Dur9aHlBaB7Q@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:c |> In article <9fg7uu$2shr$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:l |> > gC |> > And no, it's not a rice burner.  It's a Triumph Spitfire.  :-)e |> > . |> nF |> And it runs long enough that you can tell how well it accelerates? E |> (Never had anything mehcanical and British run very long, myself.)o  F Funny, I keep hearing about the inherent unreliability of British carsI and yet reality is quite different.  Not only does it run quite reliably,sF considering it is 22 years old and has 90,000 miles on it, but it runsF better when things go wrong too.  I have driven it over 100 miles withE a non-functioning alternator and just recently drove it 5 miles afterwD the fanbelt broke (far enough to reach a car parts place and buy andG install a replacement.)  I can assure you that my current American made D Jeep Wagon and even more so its's predecesor (a Jeep Grand Cherokee)E would not have run through either of these failures.  I drive the cardI up to Canada for vacation without a problem or any special consideration.e  - And this is not my first British car, either.q   bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:15:10 -0400a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011115110001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B1C4E27.16E3896F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeit% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    > Robert Deininger wrote:aJ > > too low.  I simply won't buy an underpowered, uncomfortable car that I > > can't see out of very well.g > M > Why have car manufacturers had such an easy time convincing males that theyi > need an overpowered car ?    LOL :-)t  > You really missed almost everything I wrote there, didn't you?  D Underpowered is unsafe, if you can't accelerate with the rest of theI traffic.  Tiny cars are ok for city driving, maybe.  They cause accicentssE on highways if there is much traffic at all.  I suspect you'd like tohG solve this by forcing all the cars to be gutless.  But there'd still bes
 the trucks...   E I won't repeat the part about cars too small to fit into.  Very smallwF usually goes along with very low power and rotten visibility.  For me,. going up a notch or two solves all 3 problems.    J > I do not buy arguments that you need to accelerate from 0 to 100kms in 6 seconds.  + 6 seconds, no.  But 20 seconds is not safe.l  cL > A lot of fuel would be saved if men didn't feel that they needed to have a. > powerful car to overcome other shortcomings.  < Or if we could harness the wind from the whining of women.     That's a joke, by the way.    eE > As a cyclist, I laugh at those males that try to impress females bycP > accelerating so fast to make their tires smoke and make lots of noise. "Wow" IO > say, they have enough of a muscle to move their foot on teh accelerator. Whatl	 > sport !r  8 Nah, sport is earning 20 points for each bike we squish!   ;-)e   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comh   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 15:14:22 GMTm1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)22 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fit0e$134b$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <ENE4ZVv1X3z9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,v0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:c |> In article <9fg9h2$2tju$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:i |> eG |> > Whereas coal ash stays carcinogenic forever.  I can't believe that/I |> > people actually still use coal to heat their homes and the idea thateG |> > people want more plants burning this rubbish is truly frightening.m |>  G |> Not to mention the amount of unregulated radioactivity escaping fromJ |> fossil fuel power plants.   |> o; |> If it came out of the ground, it has some radioactivity.1 |> 2I |> But if coal fumes bother you, aren't you worried about the undergroundTD |> fires smoldering for decades in the Scranton - Wilkes Barre area?  C It wasn't the fumes I was complaining about it was the carcinogenictB dust.  It is at least as bad as asbestos and yet people willingly  put it in their houses.n  C As for the underground mine fires, I think you are mistaking us forrB Centralia.  Scranton has never had an underground fire and the oneE in Wilkes-Barre (Laurel Run actually, home of the Giants Despair HilltC Climb) is so small as to be hardly noticable and may be pretty well.D burned out by this time.  I saw no signs of it the last time I drove over that way. r  D But just wait!!  Bush wants to revive the coal industry.  NEPA couldE become king again.  Estimates are that less than 10% of the available@G coal was removed during the days of big coal companies.  Lots more down? there to dig out....A                         Now there's a truly frightening thought!!e   bill   -- ,J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:23:18 -040042 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011123180001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <s1apht0rrjiv5lbj20j8lm6lgoot6oqrec@4ax.com>, Alan Greigp <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:c    + > [View from a major oil industry supplier]a > B > Interestingly the oil industry in non-OPEC countries allowed twoA > critical figures to drop to their lowest level in over 20 years2E > recently. These are "active rig count" and "standby rig count". Oil H > companies have not been replacing worn out rigs or bringing new fieldsG > on stream anywhere as fast as planned. Up until a couple of years agoVF > the major oil companies increased production to match any OPEC cuts.G > They easily have the slack to do this but have not only not done this/G > time but they have actually *delayed* scheduled new wells. This hurtsuH > oil industry supply companies heavily (and I work for one). The formalG > reason they first gave us for delaying orders was "it is not economic F > at the current oil price" and then when the price rocketed: "we needH > to complete our merger consolidation first". Meanwhile they are makingE > record profits and we are forced to reduce headcount. The last time H > oil companies were so big and powerful the US split them up. I predictF > it won't be long before Exxon gas stations start displaying the EssoC > (S.O - Standard Oil) logo again. Remember that in the UK and mosteH > other places the "Esso" logo never went away. Oil companies can wait a > very long time...z > G > There are internal oil industry stats that you can use to predict theWH > price of oil quite accurately. Despite the current high oil prices theE > oil companies are holding new activity at about 30% below the leveleE > the graphs predict are needed to bring the oil price back to around B > $20.. Current forward orders indicate that the oil companies are@ > aiming to slowly return to normal around the end of this year,  G Interesting.  If the big companies try to stay at current prices, smalliG operators will start to chip away at them.  There are quite a few folkstC who can scrape up maybe $200,000 in capital and start drilling testaH wells.  There are a lot of marginal oil fields that aren't tied up yet. H The've remained fallow in recent years because the production costs wereH too high given the price of crude.  That will change, but as you suggest@ it takes time to find drilling equipment and get it operational.  G OPEC, as usual, will have trouble keeping its members in line, and someh: will start to cheat on their quotas.  That will help also.  E I'm more worried about refining capacity in the short term.  A lot oftJ small refineries have gone out of business in the last 10 or 15 years, andI few if any new ones have been built.  Refineries don't appear overnight. .@ The engineering is non-trivial, and the red tape is bad as well.   -- k Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:26:37 -0400r2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011126380001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <87n17nquwj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:    G > 400-1500% depending on time, place and year. The CSIRO did a planktonxH > survey in Spring some years ago. They discovered a precipitous drop inF > numbers in the upper water layers. This corresponded to the southern- > 'hole' within a few Km over a 4-500 Km run.e  H I'm not doubting your word, but these numbers just don't seem credible. I If you happen to have pointers to the original sources, please shout themt* out.  In the meantime, I remain a skeptic.   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:39:38 -0400A2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011139390001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <009FD147.6AD43B4F.16@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnoto$ <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:   > NO!= > E > The advantages are rather different. An internal-combustion-enginedeM > car has to have an engine that can deliver many horsepower for accelerationtM > and for going steep uphill with maximum load. Almost all the time when it'syL > simply maintaining continuous velocity on a flat road, it's workiong at a @ > few percent of maximum. And this is intrinsically inefficient. > L > In a hybrid car, peak power comes out of batteries. Batteries and electricN > motors are extremely good at bursts of high power, and electrical propulsion> > is extremely efficient across a wide range of power outputs.  J That all makes sense.  I was thinking in terms of conventional gas-powered# generators.  They aren't very good.k  J > However, big enough batteries for a decent range are ridiculously heavy   I ... and expensive...  and they don't last long enough, but that's gettinga better all the time.  J > (and therefore lugging them around wastes energy). Hence the hybrid car.B > It has a  gasoline engine designed to run at one fixed speed andJ > power output, which charges the batteries until they are full then shutsL > down. It's designed for efficiency, not flexibility. The flexibility comesK > from the electrical propulsion and the reserve of power in the batteries.e > L > The Toyota Prius is on sale, it has about the same performance as a normalO > compact car but getting on for twice the fuel economy. Subsequent development.K > of the technology may improve on this. (And I hope that someone will soonvG > launch a hybrid 4WD. That's 4WD with independant computer-controlled -K > electric power to each wheel. Should wipe mechanical 4WD off the face of  I > the planet, at least for the folks who have 4WD because they *need* it!sN > A hybrid "exotic" sports car also has considerable potential for 0-silly mphE > in very few seconds, and might still leave space for some luggage!)i >  > K > As for fuel cells: another misconception is apparent here. There are many M > fuel cell technologies under development that don't need dangerous hydrogen L > or oxygen tanks. They run on fuel such as methanol, or even gasoline, plusN > oxygen from the air. They produce electricity at high percentage efficiency L > from the fuel (better than any engine), and only water and CO2 as output.   G Yup, I alluded to some of these, as have others.  I didn't start the H2a+ part of the thread, I just responded to it.u    ( > OK: so much for facts, now my opinion. > N > Global warming is an unproved hypothesis, but it is impossible to argue thatP > CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and if we wait to find out whether global warming is L > a true hypothesis rather than a plausible one it will be *too late* to do J > anything about the consequences. And interestingly, if you look at some P > contour maps, the USA has an awful lot to lose. Work out the value of all the K > real estate on the USA eastern seaboard at an elevation of less than 10m o > above sea-level! s > L > So in my book, we should be doing all we can to reduce CO2 output, and theJ > USA, as the world's richest and most powerful nation, should be leading.  C That's one of the annoying facets of this debate.  Folks are alwaysaG pointing over here with one hand, and reaching for our wallets with theeE other.  Decade after decade.  It gets kind of old, and many of us aretG wary.  I hope you understand that.  Next time you say "richest and mosti? powerful", please consider adding "and most often called upon".   K > Unfortunately it isn't; rather the Bush administration is showing all theVN > leadership quality of a terrible-two-year-old (ie throwing a massive tantrumL > because mum has tried to tell him that drinking bleach really isn't a good > idea).  H Sigh.  You start losing credibility with all this Bush-bashing.  ClintonI was far from the center of public opinion on this.  Bush is closer.  MorewF important, Clinton made a lot of hot air that was CLEARLY not going toH make it past congress, the courts, and the people.  His promises weren'tI ever challenged much by the press, and that may have misled various folkssJ who weren't watching closely.  But Bush, on his own, hasn't really changedH much.  He's said some things straight out that Clinton obfuscated. KyotoI is the probably the biggest example.  It was never gonna happen.  If Gore G had won the election, Kyoto would have been just as dead, but he'd havet made more soothing noises.   -- h Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:42:10 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011142110001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <Xogm75Ao4Ulu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  K > The problem is I need a SUV-sized hydrogen tank to have the same range astG > my little 14 gal (US) gasoline tank.  (OK, I'm exagerating slightly).i  H But you make a good point.  The fuel value of hydrogen is much less thanI most hydrocarbons.  Particularly gasoline and diesel.  It's hard to argueE with chemistry.    -- t Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:44:00 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011144000001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <OF4118F03E.D586F273-ON80256A62.0043C01B@qedi.quintiles.com>,! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:h  E > Something I'm not clear on with this thread (which isn't really VMSI) > related, unless - let's not go there) :tJ > In the UK, hydro-electric power plants use water to drive turbines.  Th= > isJ > is the principle used in one of the Welsh plants (whose name escapes me= >  atuH > the moment) in which water drives the turbines at high demand and thenJ > during off-peak periods when electricity is cheap the water is pumped b= > ackb > to the top of the plant.G > The power during the off-peak periods would, of course, come from thebJ > base-load stations which are primarily nuclear or coal burning stations=  I I don't think we do that over here.  Generally, the hydro plants make therI cheapest power, so pumping the water back uphill would be a money-loser. 0G We let the sun take care of that, but sometimes we have to wait quite aj while.   -- u Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com9   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:55:41 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011155410001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>  B In article <oh6T6.30$Io6.63049@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober"# <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> wrote:o  K > Toyota (Prius) has one as well.  The city of Denver, CO just bought 34 oftK > the Toyota versions.  The Honda is a two door while the Toyota Prius is 4lI > door.  It's milage is 45 Highway 50 City and it has a 10Gal tank.  ThissA > technology definitely needs to be scaled up to larger vehicles.,  F It will be good news if ordinary folks buy the bulk of these vehicles,H indicating they are economically sensible.  When government entities areD the only ones adopting something, it generally means it's a loser inD economic terms. The previous fad for natural-gas cars seems to be an example.  I Any organization with a big fleet of vehicles might find a bunch of thesedE attractive.  Do you know of any such fleets being bought with privatev money?  J I'm not too opposed to a _small_ boost for a new technology using taxpayerH money.  But too often is doesn't stay small.  Most new technologies thatD succeed do so without help from the taxpayer.  Unless the market hasJ already been mangled by the government, it is usually the best way to sort" out technology winners and losers.   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:27:07 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605092202.00acc290@ntbsod.psccos.com>  , At 09:14 AM 6/5/2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:E >But just wait!!  Bush wants to revive the coal industry.  NEPA could F >become king again.  Estimates are that less than 10% of the availableH >coal was removed during the days of big coal companies.  Lots more down >there to dig out....eC >                         Now there's a truly frightening thought!!o  K ..but of course, you're judging the pollution from coal based on technologydI that existed 40-50 years ago.  That's the first thing that anti-drilling, L anti-mining, anti-nuclear, anti-coal cabals bring up as scare tactics.  TheyH don't want anybody to know that the state of technology for all of thoseI fields has actually changed quite dramatically since their heydays in thes 1950's and 1960's.  J I've seen estimates that there is enough coal in the coalfields of MontanaH to fuel America's energy needs for hundreds of years.  And while yes, itJ would be an interesting proposition to get all of that coal out, it can beK done and keep all the tree huggers happy while doing it.  And by the way, a0G LOT of that coal is under prairie land that NOBODY would miss (I'm fromf Montana, by the way)!    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:53:14 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>,2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?$ Message-ID: <3b1d0e9f$1@news.si.com>  L >Then give everyone his own personal air conditioned winnebago with built-in) >hot tub for commuting to work every day.m  L If Winnebago could sell then, they would.  If people had enough money to buy& them, they would.  So?  Your point is? --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com-A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comn= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventi< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:58:20 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?$ Message-ID: <3b1d0fd1$1@news.si.com>  K >If the EPA collected a yearly levy on cars based on their emissions, or ifa theeJ >EPA billed car manufacturers a yearly fee for each car that they produced and L >still registered, then the car manufacturers would have a strong motivation toF >avoid building boats/tabks such as SUVs and concentrate on small fuel >efficient cars.  G Pure hogwash.  _If_ a tax such as the above were to be implemented, thegL companies WOULD NOT PAY IT.  Instead, they'd just raise the products' prices and the public would pay it. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coms= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevento< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:04:46 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?$ Message-ID: <3b1d1153$1@news.si.com>  G >Very few people *need* an SUV.  How many kilometres of road in the USAn requireh >a 4wd vehicle ?  I People don't NEED a lot of things.  They don't NEED more that about 1,500oI calories per day.  They don't NEED a house (an apartment would do).  TheyhL don't NEED most over-the-counter drugs, except in a minority of cases.  TheyK don't NEED the Internet.  They don't NEED books, television, movies, or anyfI other kind of entertainment.  They don't NEED haircuts.  I just don't see#K your point.  Because you don't want an SUV means no one should have them???,K Also, where did you get the (false) idea that the majority of SUVs are foureK wheel drive and that four wheel drive is significantly more economical thane< two wheel drive?  You're not presenting facts, just emotion. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comi= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevents< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:11:08 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>t2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?$ Message-ID: <3b1d12d1$1@news.si.com>  @ >If a head of state commits to a treaty, it is expected that the$ >country will implement that treaty.  E That's _your_ expectation, but not that of the heads of states of theiI countries of the world.  They all know that _any_ multicameral governmentsK must get approval _after the fact_, not before, by the body responsible forcB ratifying such treatys.  The only countries that work that way areI dictatorships.  Not even Canada works the way you describe.  Get real andd) start stating facts instead of hyperbole.u  H >And yes, the USA is not alone in this. In Canada, we had the Meech Lake accordG >that was supposed to bring Qubec officially into canada (Qubec neverh signedI >our current constitution), and all provincial leaders, ncluding Qubec'se hadcI >signed the deal, but 2 province's legislatures failed to ratify the deali andzG >it fell through. The two provinces were accused of breaking up Canada.   H Accused, perhaps, but not bearing the responsibility for having done so.J They operated within your own laws.  The outcome was perfectly legitimate. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent,< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.310 ************************