1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 06 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 311       Contents:, RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun# Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; RE: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging 7 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? 7 RE: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? 7 RE: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? ! AS1200 PCI Configuration Question 7 Availability Manager vs DECAMDS Collector Modules query  Byte Order on Alpha Processors" Re: Byte Order on Alpha ProcessorsH Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)H Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail) Re: disabling floppy drive FS/FT: AlphaStation 600 5/266 + Re: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui B Re: Global warming? was: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? I demand your respect  Re: I demand your respect  Is it just me?% Re: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kits % RE: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kits % Re: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kits 3 Re: Pathworks V5.0F ECO2+W2Kpatch  W2K+SP2 problems ' Re: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"? ' Re: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"? ' Re: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"? & Re: QuickStrike? Why not "OpenStrike"? Re: RAID-0 or Logical Volumes  Re: RAID-0 or Logical Volumes  Re: RZ28-E dead? Re: RZ28-E dead?6 Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression options Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  UCX and telneting over a router # Re: UCX and telneting over a router # Re: UCX and telneting over a router  Re: Virtual Memory problem Re: Virtual Memory problem/ Re: Yet Another Reason Why Windoze .ne. OpenVMS ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 18:22:34 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 5 Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <9fj81a$1a4k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  L In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EEA@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>,.  Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes: |> > -----Original Message----- > |> > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@mediaone.net] |>  A |> > AlphaNT died because of the Compaqtion of Digital. Prior to   |> > the Compaqtion,J |> > NT was shipping on ~20 percent of Alpha systems, and on a much higherC |> > proportion of low-end systems. Six months post-Compaqtion, NT   |> > was shipping A |> > on fewer than 2 percent of Alphas... nowhere near enough to   |> > justify a >$100M A |> > per annum development program. Hence Compaq pulled the plug.  |>  O |> It says something that they only had to ignore it for six months to kill it. . |> How long have they been trying to kill VMS? |>    D Maybe VMS people should learn from history rather than repeating it.F I only saw one Alpha/NT box.  A professor here had bought it.  When heA discovered that none of the applications available on x86/NT were G available on Alpha/NT he dumped the box in favor of, you guessed it, an C x86/NT box.  I have little doubt that the stability of the hardware F would have enhanced the stability of the OS (at least to some percent)C but without aplications, it was pretty much doomed from the start.   O |> Still perhaps the market was saturated?  There can't be that many people who M |> would actually be smart enough to want an Alpha, but stupid enough to want 
 |> NT. :)   H Applications are what drive most computer users.  Only an idiot buys theH computer first and then goes looking for something to do with it.  AfterA all, it's just a tool.  Without suitable work, a tool is useless.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:44:06 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun L Message-ID: <OF783B5F6E.4CCBEEDD-ON03256A62.005BBFD2@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  > Compaqtion caused the  company to change two Alphaservers 4100@ running Lotus Notes to a few Proliant 8000 in the same clustered configuration.G The Lotus Notes team liked a lot .... a lot of extra hours to migrate !    Regards    FC        E "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> em 05/06/2001 13:30:49   @ Favor responder a "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       5 Assunto: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun       8 "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageF news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EE9@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com... > > -----Original Message-----; > > From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]  >  > 2 > > UltraSad, this was also the case with Alpha/NT0 > > could be one reason why Alpha on NT wasn't a2 > > great sucess. You have real difficulty selling0 > > a box as a performance leader in a commodity+ > > market when you cannot demonstrate that 1 > > performance leadership using any measure that . > > the market you are selling into places any > > credance on. > H > Well, I'm not going to argue high-end performance numbers, but this isG > somewhat off. :)  Alpha NT was unsuccessful because NT is trash.  You  don't K > buy very expensive cars, and scratch "killroy was here" in the paint with  a K > chisel, or plant flowers in them.  You don't buy a nice telescope so that J > you can take it to some sporting event.  You don't punch holes through aK > hundred year old violin -- and you don't run NT on a good computer.  It's  a @ > complete waste.  I believe that's the reason NT on Alpha died. >   K AlphaNT died because of the Compaqtion of Digital. Prior to the Compaqtion, E NT was shipping on ~20 percent of Alpha systems, and on a much higher J proportion of low-end systems. Six months post-Compaqtion, NT was shippingE on fewer than 2 percent of Alphas... nowhere near enough to justify a  >$100M< per annum development program. Hence Compaq pulled the plug.  K Why the precipitous decline? Easy. Compaq sent mixed messages--none of them F reassuring--about the fate and future of Alpha. And the Compaq Classic$ salesforce was clueless about Alpha.   And that's the way it was.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:50:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B1D37E4.4330D944@videotron.ca>   Christopher Smith wrote:H > Well, I'm not going to argue high-end performance numbers, but this isM > somewhat off. :)  Alpha NT was unsuccessful because NT is trash.  You don't M > buy very expensive cars, and scratch "killroy was here" in the paint with a $ > chisel, or plant flowers in them.   L But NT has won over the world on trash hardware. So the fact that NT is poorM quality is irerelevant. Had Digital agreed to price alphas to compete against N the 8086 boxes, I have a feeling that NT-alpha would have been taken seriously, by ISVs and software would have been ported.  H And with the threath of IA64, Compaq could have done the same instead ofG cannot NT on alpha. Of course, we all know that Compaq does not wish to N irritate Intel or Microsoft, so it is obvious that Compaq would never pitch anM alpha against a wintel box, and that Compaq will never pitch its own software  against that of Microsoft's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:27:45 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B1D6AF1.AEB6692A@infopuls.com>   andrew harrison wrote: >  > Christof Brass wrote:  > >  > > andrew harrison wrote: > > >  > > > Christof Brass wrote:  > > 
 > > [SNIP] > > H > > > > Very simple: praxis. If we look around what we pay for computingF > > > > power delivered at screen, keyboard and mouse there is nothingD > > > > which led us buy any SUN product. I'm not talking about some? > > > > benchmarks, I'm talking about what our applications and G > > > > customers see at delivered computing power. And the price range F > > > > for the UltraSPARC III processor is simply spoken illusionary. > > > < > > > If that is really your criteria for selecting a system- > > > then why do you continue to buy Alphas?  > > A > > Because they run VMS - in case you might have forgotten this: & > > the name of the NG is comp.os.VMS. > 1 > So in fact your previous response was bullshit. 0 > Performance isn't a criteria you even consider1 > when you select a new machine. You select it on 1 > its ability to run OpenVMS. Why did you bluster / > on about UltraSPARC and Alpha, the only Alpha . > feature you are interested is its ability to > support OpenVMS.  1 Sad to see that you don't learn from discussions. @ Think about the following: there are companies which want to run< their apps on VMS, there are others that want to run them on> Tru64, and - unfortunately - a few companies still continue to9 use Slowaris. The experience is that Slowaris on SPARC is @ incredibly more expensive computing power wise than on any other< platform. But as we all know if you want to go for speed you% will chose Tru64. What's the problem?   ; > > > On actual applications benchmarks like SAP and Oracle > > > > apps Alphas have in the past and do currently suck rocks@ > > > both in terms of actual performance and in terms of price,* > > > with the sole exception of the ES40. > > C > > As I said: performance of ES40 is exceptional - and that's what  > > we and our customers need. > >  > : > Rubbish, Compaqs customers need a broad range of servers9 > which are competitive in terms of price performance not 9 > a product range that consists of 1 competitive product.  > : > The fact that not every computing requirement can be met9 > by the ES40 should be obvious even to you. Having price 6 > turkeys or performance and price turkeys in the rest: > of the range below and above the ES40 is hardly helpfull: > to people like you who profess to be OpenVMS supporters. >  > <Snip> > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architect   ? Sad enough that you mix up a lot of different aspects here. One ; of the most important facts you obviously don't get is that > there is a difference between the CPU and the complete system.= Moreover do you know the difference between an official price ? and a good deal? Think about these two points and there will be 1 hope that you come to very different conclusions.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:31:57 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B1D6BED.4EBB0E61@infopuls.com>   andrew harrison wrote: >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > A > > "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message ( > > news:3B177CC4.E0BB99C3@uk.sun.com... > > >  > > > Christof Brass wrote:  > > > > ! > > > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: 	 > > > > >  > > > > > It was written... 	 > > > > > , > > > > > > > > Sun buying Compaq, unlikely.
 > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > Why not ? Sun would be able to cannabalise Compaq's microsoft 
 > > alliances 
 > > > > > and P > > > > > > > operations and focus on *real* enterprise solutions. It would be a	 > > major  > > > > > kickP > > > > > > > in the ass to Bill Gates since Compaq would then become a rival to > > > > > Microsoft.
 > > > > > > > N > > > > > > > Sun would gain access to Alpha which it could market (and use on > > its own N > > > > > > > systems) and show a clear lead in technology over those that are	 > > based  > > > > > on2 > > > > > > > Intel's delayed 64 bit architecture.	 > > > > > L > > > > > Truth be told, Digital ported Solaris to Alpha back in the mid-90s > > just to M > > > > > prove it could be done. And there were 1995 backchannel discussions  > > between O > > > > > the two vendors re: Digital adopting--and enhancing--Solaris, and Sun  > > > > > adopting Alpha.  > > > > G > > > > This really makes sense. The UltraSPARC is ultra slow and ultra D > > > > expensive. I don't know if there is a chip around with lower  > > > > performance/price ratio. > > > >  > > > 3 > > > Really and how did you reach this interesting & > > > but unsupportable conclusion ??? > > : > > It wasn't T. Shannon who reached the above conclusion! > >  > 0 > I don't think I suggested it was you, Christof/ > was the culprit. My appologies if you thought  > this was aimed at you. > > > 4 > > > As you know perfectly well the opposite is the1 > > > case, UltraSPARC isn't ultra slow and it is  > > > also not ultra expensive.  > > N > > UltraSparc is neither ultraslow nor ultraexpensive. But there sure as hell: > > aren't many of the UltraSparc III chips available yet. > >  > > > 8 > > > If you are looking for the holder of the UltraSlow9 > > > UltraExpensive titles you need look no further than  > > > the Alpha. > >  > > UltraExpensive? Yep. > > I > > UltraSlow? Andrew, Andrew, Andrew... your credibility gap is showing!  > >  > 1 > UltraSlow, yes, the WildFire boxes are abjectly / > slow compared with IBM, HP, Fujitsu and Sun's 3 > current machines. TPC-C, TPC-H, Oracle Apps there 0 > is virtually no large server measure that they
 > lead on. > 0 > UltraBusiness as usual, this has been the case > for the last 5 years.  > 0 > UltraMarketing, Compaq only want to talk about/ > SPECint and SPECfp, without them they have no  > performance story. > 0 > UltraSad, this was also the case with Alpha/NT. > could be one reason why Alpha on NT wasn't a0 > great sucess. You have real difficulty selling. > a box as a performance leader in a commodity) > market when you cannot demonstrate that / > performance leadership using any measure that , > the market you are selling into places any > credance on. >  > > >u/ > > > From a workstation standpoint Compaq seema. > > > unable to build any form of AlphaStation4 > > > that can compete price wise with a SunBlade1008 > > > and while it may not be as fast as the lowest cost7 > > > D machine its bigger brother the SunBlade 1000 is , > > > and it is also very price competitive. > >T& > > That is a very credible statement. > >0 > > > 5 > > > In the server space Compaq have one competitive18 > > > system the ES40 which keeps the rest from sinking. > > >r7 > > > But above it the GS160/320 have proven themselves ) > > > to be overpriced and under powered.  > >b > > Your opinion.  > >  > / > Not really, there have been a number of postsO7 > on this group lamenting the general uncompetitiveness : > of the AlphaServer range with the exception of the ES40. > L > > And things are gonna get much worse for the GS-Series on July 7 when theL > > 1GHz model is announced. It is hideously underpowered. A 1GHz GS320 will > > deliver only 230K tpmC.t > > > > > That's a terrible number! After all, Sun can do 300K tpmC. > >o > 3 > Actually it isn't good enough. It won't beat IBMse2 > Regatta when it comes out and the USIII machines. > from Sun will also make it look pretty poor.  8 When will you stop referring to system that will come??? > 1 > It might allow Compaq to take the single systemn1 > TPC-C TPM title for a few weeks, though Fujitsui- > could also beat the number now if they felts
 > like it. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisone > Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:45:21 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sunu, Message-ID: <3B1D6F11.31A0678A@infopuls.com>   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Christopher Smith wrote:J > > Well, I'm not going to argue high-end performance numbers, but this isO > > somewhat off. :)  Alpha NT was unsuccessful because NT is trash.  You don'taO > > buy very expensive cars, and scratch "killroy was here" in the paint with a % > > chisel, or plant flowers in them.e > N > But NT has won over the world on trash hardware. So the fact that NT is poorO > quality is irerelevant. Had Digital agreed to price alphas to compete against P > the 8086 boxes, I have a feeling that NT-alpha would have been taken seriously. > by ISVs and software would have been ported. > J > And with the threath of IA64, Compaq could have done the same instead ofI > cannot NT on alpha. Of course, we all know that Compaq does not wish toeP > irritate Intel or Microsoft, so it is obvious that Compaq would never pitch anO > alpha against a wintel box, and that Compaq will never pitch its own softwares > against that of Microsoft's.  4 With the conditions at that time your argueing seems: inconsistent. If NT/Alpha had further been supported there> wouldn't have been anyting against Micro$hit. Of course, Alpha= against IA32 would remain. But a reasonable company should bee5 able to do business in favour of the things they own.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 22:33:50 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>O5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to SunM, Message-ID: <3B1D968C.EECDDE82@videotron.ca>   Christof Brass wrote:eB > Think about the following: there are companies which want to run> > their apps on VMS, there are others that want to run them on@ > Tru64, and - unfortunately - a few companies still continue to > use Slowaris.   M Ask yourself: of the remaining VMS sites, how many are actually growing theira6 VMS infrastructure by adding new applications on VMS ?  M It seems to me that of the remaining VMS sites, any growth is to accomodate a I growth in existing application usage, not by adding new applications. NewD- applications are usually added on NT or Unix.s  M Why would a customer struggle and fight against Compaq to put an alpplicationvK which does not fit in Compaq's view of what VMS is supposed to be running ?MD (eg: customers have gotten the hints from Compaq that outside of the1 identified niches, VMS doesn't have much future).-  I Sun on the other hand is out to grab as much market share as possible andsM widen the applications available on its platform, including Star Office which ? hopes to compete against Compaq's/Microsoft's Office bloatware.<   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:50:35 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>r, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10007 Message-ID: <9fj9m1$ml$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>T  H We've had the very same problems as mentioned below, so I simply set theK DE500 to 100FD from the console and/or LANCP and have our network people do  same on their end.  J I wonder if this happens with the newer DE600 (or whatever the replacement# for the DE500 is called).  Anybody?h  C Also get the "it works with other systems" from our network people.t   Dave...e  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:tfvphtg2lnh2b5ti2jvvbg7sh88jsv3417@4ax.com...3 > On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:59:55 -0500, "Main, Kerry"   > <Kerry.Main@COMPAQ.com> wrote: >  > >Alan, > >oJ > >re: VMS systems and autonegotiate .. I have seen similar issues with NTF > >servers as well. Granted, not as many, but the VMS issues were moreL > >prevalent in V6.x and previous versions of OpenVMS. Depending on the type ofJ > >NIC (older versions of DE500 were more of an issue), there are a number of! > >Lan patches available as well.t > >tH > >From my perspective, you always want the best performance (100Mb, FD) from aL > >NIC and anything less is not good. So, why not set the NIC and the switchL > >port to this optimum setting (assuming there are no local reasons against@ > >this) and not have to worry about reboots, power failures andI > >auto-negotiation each time the server or network switch comes back up?  >sH > Because I don't have authority to alter our network switches. Trust meD > I have had shouting matches about this with the outsourced networkF > support company (not EDS this time). It was simpler to just lock theE > VMS end to 100HD as this is sufficient. Note there is also a directoH > crossover link (no switch) between the two main ES40s (DE500 to DE500) > which runs at 100FD. >-G > This is the old case where they answer "but it works fine with NT". Ip > know all the arguments...u >c
 > >Regards > > 
 > >Kerry Mainp > >Senior Consultant > >Compaq Canada Inc.E > >Professional Services > >Voice: 613-592-4660 > >Fax  :  819-772-7036m > >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com1 > >u > >  > >-----Original Message-----0/ > >From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]u > >Sent: June 5, 2001 6:42 AM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ > >Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000< > >s > >n4 > >On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:57:13 -0500, "Main, Kerry"! > ><Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote:n > >d	 > >>Fwiw,  > >>K > >>I agree 100% with John. The issue is usually not whether it is VMS, butrL > >>rather the lack of standards in the way auto-negotiation works with many: > >>older and different switch and NIC vendor's equipment. > >oG > >And I don't agree. Yes I agree the standards are not... but the factnC > >is that I, and many others, have discovered that our VMS systemseE > >*usually* have problems with auto-negotiate (cisco, 3com,  netgearrD > >switches) and most of our other equipment doesn't (or very rarelyD > >does). Whatever the reason switches seem to always auto-negotiateH > >correctly with cards in NT machines. To the best of my knowledge this+ > >doesn't alter with the firmware version.  > > F > >Bottom line: Plug in an NT box and it works at 100FD. Plug in a VMSG > >box and your network performance is likely to be highly erratic with H > >the default settings. Wherever the problem lies I don't think this isC > >very good. I understand that the standards for auto negotiate onnI > >Gigabit ethernet have been tightened considerably but I don't have onet$ > >in a VMS system yet to test this. > >v > > D > >>Best advice for a mixed and/or an environment with older network	 equipmenteK > >>having these issues is usually "work with the network support resourcesp inJ > >>your oraganization to determine if the NICs should be set to 100MB, FD at4 > >>the same time as the switch is set to 100Mb FD." > >> > >>Regardsh > >> > >>Kerry Main > >>Senior Consultantt > >>Compaq Canada Inc. > >>Professional Servicesu > >>Voice: 613-592-4660u > >>Fax  :  819-772-7036  > >>Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com > >> > >> > >>-----Original Message-----H > >>From: malmberg@encompasserve.org [mailto:malmberg@encompasserve.org] > >>Sent: June 4, 2001 11:24 AMf > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 > >>Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 > >> > >>. > >>In article <3B1966F7.4AD9383A@virgin.net>,/ > >>Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.network> writes:c > >>>" > >>> John Santos wrote: > >>>tF > >>> However, I don't think it negotiates full/half duplex correctly. > >>>:J > >>>> Under heavy load, DECnet logs lots of "alignment" and "frame check"B > >>>> errors to OPCOM.  Either setting the ew?0_mode to FastHD or
 explicitly6 > >>>> changing the switch to full-duplex solves this. > >>>> > >>>wE > >>> I've given up trying to make 100FD work reliably to most of our  switches	 > >>(fromrK > >>> VMS). Even if I force modes at both ends *sometimes* it still doesn't  > >>work. ItL > >>> have found that 100 Half Duplex works on every single occasion. If you > >>haveL > >>> very heavy two way network traffic then this would not be an option of > >>course.o > >>C > >>Do you have any half duplex segments on your LAN?  If you do, a A > >>network adapter set to full duplex can send more data to that,A > >>segment than the hosts on it can handle, resulting in dropped   > >>packets and retransmissions. > >>L > >>> Every other piece of hardware/software seems to reliably autonegotiate so > >>whyaE > >>> not VMS. The same cards in some of our NT servers autonegotiateu	 correctlyu > >>so2 > >>> it's a software problem as far as I can see. > >>I > >>I personally have seen autonegotiaton fail on on non-OpenVMS systems,BH > >>and have been given advice from several Networking people who seldomI > >>if ever work on OpenVMS systems to disable autonegotiation where ever 
 > >>possible.p > >>K > >>From a networking class that I had just over a year ago, the instructortG > >>explained that the reason was a lack of a standard way of doing theeD > >>negotiation.  Newer equipment uses better algorithms than older. > >>F > >>If all of your networking equipment was from the same vendor, than, > >>autonegotiation has a chance of working. > >>G > >>If you are a multiple vendor shop, then it just a matter of luck if % > >>autonegotiation will work at all.e > >>K > >>When the firmware of a network card is set to autonegotiation mode, the E > >>host operating system is totally uninvolved with the negotiation.r > >>L > >>Just because two links use the same model of hub and lan cards, does not0 > >>mean they are at the same firmware revision. > >> > >>	 > >>-Johne > >>Personal Opinion Only  > >>wb8tyw@qsl.network >l > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:01:40 GMT.2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10003 Message-ID: <o0aT6.1056$fi2.28043@news.cpqcorp.net>o  k In article <9fj9m1$ml$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes:hI :We've had the very same problems as mentioned below, so I simply set thetL :DE500 to 100FD from the console and/or LANCP and have our network people do: :same on their end.  [long quoted reply on DE500 snipped.]  E   Per the OpenVMS FAQ, the DE500-XA did not provide auto-negotiate.  AA   The DE500-AA should auto-negotiate.  Details of setting up the e?   DE500 variants are (you guessed it) included in the FAQ.  ThesD   AlphaStation XP1000 series had an added extra wrinkle, and needed 3   an ECO kit to contend with proper identification.o  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 5 JUN 2001 19:22:25 GMTt+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>e, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10001 Message-ID: <5JUN01.19222506@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>   3 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:nG >   Per the OpenVMS FAQ, the DE500-XA did not provide auto-negotiate.  mC >   The DE500-AA should auto-negotiate.  Details of setting up the  A >   DE500 variants are (you guessed it) included in the FAQ.  ThedF >   AlphaStation XP1000 series had an added extra wrinkle, and needed 5 >   an ECO kit to contend with proper identification.e  F Steve - could you post the ECO kit name?  I originated this thread andD have already installed VMS721_LAN V2.0 which is the only kit I foundH through DSN which referred both to the XP1000 and autonegotiation.  That  kit hasn't resolved the problem.   Thanks,i Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV.H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:49:02 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10003 Message-ID: <OIaT6.1063$fi2.27928@news.cpqcorp.net>o  _ In article <5JUN01.19222506@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> writes:   G :Steve - could you post the ECO kit name?  I originated this thread and E :have already installed VMS721_LAN V2.0 which is the only kit I foundmI :through DSN which referred both to the XP1000 and autonegotiation.  That ! :kit hasn't resolved the problem.A  2   That LAN kit was the ECO that I was thinking of.  "   OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1, obviously.     Ok, now for some questions.h  5   Have you contacted the folks at the support center?e   Which DE500?!   Which console firmware version?r-   How is the DE500 set up at the SRM console?c-   How is the DE500 set up at the LANCP level? H   Which switch, and how is the switch set up?  (this is the "fun" part.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 5 JUN 2001 20:32:54 GMTu+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> , Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10001 Message-ID: <5JUN01.20325480@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>h  3 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote: a > In article <5JUN01.19222506@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> writes:e >  rI > :Steve - could you post the ECO kit name?  I originated this thread and G > :have already installed VMS721_LAN V2.0 which is the only kit I found K > :through DSN which referred both to the XP1000 and autonegotiation.  That # > :kit hasn't resolved the problem.l >  f4 >   That LAN kit was the ECO that I was thinking of. >  o$ >   OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1, obviously.  G Yes - 7.2-1.  In case you missed the original post, the DE500 initiallyyH negotiates 100Mb FD.  When VMS begins to load it switches the DE500 back to 10Mb HD.j   >   Ok, now for some questions.P >  i7 >   Have you contacted the folks at the support center?A  F I'm a few K miles from the system, but one of the local folk has.  CPQI told him the DE500-BA was only qualified on VMS 7.3 (the XP1000 came withsA the DE500-BA and 7.2-1 factory loaded!) and told him to down load J EWDRIVER_D3500BA_721-1R (assuming I wrote that done correctly).  It didn't solve the problem.   >   Which DE500?  	 DE500-BA e  # >   Which console firmware version?a   V5.8-4  / >   How is the DE500 set up at the SRM console?o   auto-negotiate  / >   How is the DE500 set up at the LANCP level?a   auto-negotiate (currently)  J >   Which switch, and how is the switch set up?  (this is the "fun" part.)  G CISCO 2900.  It was originally set to 100Mb FD with the XP1000 at auto- H negotiate.  Nothing worked once VMS switched the DE500 back to 10Mb (the< system couldn't find its cluster mates for obvious reasons).  I With the switch and DE500 set to auto-negotiate, we get communications at  10Mb.   6 Next test - set both the switch and DE500 to 100Mb FD.  M Btw, the MC LANCP SET DEVICE EWA0/SPEED=100 command suggested here previouslyo doesn't change anything.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV0H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:57:24 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10003 Message-ID: <UIbT6.1069$fi2.28161@news.cpqcorp.net>n  _ In article <5JUN01.20325480@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> writes:y  H :Yes - 7.2-1.  In case you missed the original post, the DE500 initiallyI :negotiates 100Mb FD.  When VMS begins to load it switches the DE500 backl :to 10Mb HD.  D   Weird.  This looks more like a problem with the link was detected.  G :I'm a few K miles from the system, but one of the local folk has.  CPQ 4 :told him the DE500-BA was only qualified on VMS 7.3  B   Incorrectly.  DE500-BA is fully supported, tested, and qualifiedB   on -- well, see the FAQ, I posted the table and details there...   :...K :EWDRIVER_D3500BA_721-1R (assuming I wrote that done correctly).  It didn't  :solve the problem.-  G   That's likely an image from the OpenVMS sustaining engineering group,r4   but I'd have to dig up the details of that change.  G   I'll check on this, and see if one of the locals recognizes this one.z    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:24:28 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>g, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10008 Message-ID: <9fjipc$20e$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  ! I checked the FAQ and found this:t  E To check the DE500 device hardware id from OpenVMS, use the followingc command:     $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM     SDA> SHOW LAN/DEVICE=EWcu:  $ The "hardware id" will be displayed.  E The "hardware id" for the DE500-BA is said to be 02000030 in the FAQ. L Couldn't find that field using the above SDA command.  This is a DS20E 7.2-1: system ECO'd up till Feb of 2001.  It does have LAN-V0200.   Firmware 5.6-3    ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagee- news:o0aT6.1056$fi2.28043@news.cpqcorp.net...aI > In article <9fj9m1$ml$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>, "Dave Gudewicz"a# <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes:sK > :We've had the very same problems as mentioned below, so I simply set the K > :DE500 to 100FD from the console and/or LANCP and have our network peoplet do< > :same on their end.  [long quoted reply on DE500 snipped.] >sE >   Per the OpenVMS FAQ, the DE500-XA did not provide auto-negotiate.hB >   The DE500-AA should auto-negotiate.  Details of setting up theA >   DE500 variants are (you guessed it) included in the FAQ.  The,E >   AlphaStation XP1000 series had an added extra wrinkle, and neededs5 >   an ECO kit to contend with proper identification.y >e( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------c1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringl hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 22:06:03 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10003 Message-ID: <fJcT6.1073$fi2.28162@news.cpqcorp.net>u  l In article <9fjipc$20e$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes:  1   We already know which DE500 is involved, right?h  J   That looks to be an originally-bogus command, or something got shuffled.$   Try the SDA command CLUE CONFIG...  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 14:46:05 -0500t9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)0D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging3 Message-ID: <9wTAqINFDo$$@eisner.encompasserve.org>"  a In article <9fj0gt$1cq@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: M > HP has a method of reducing the size of groups by sending out a notice that F > "you have N weeks to find a job in another group inside HP or you'reH > terminated".  This is nicer than just a pink slip, and tends to retainS > skilled workers.  Does the Q do the same thing?  (It seems unlikely, given their oM > general managerial ineptitude.)  Anyway, if they do, then somebody may haverJ > decided to take the exit door and on the way out left the Q this ad as a > parting gift.   K DEC did this to me when I got TFSOed back in late 1991. Turns out they wereoI just staffing up a new project (something called ALPHA) while making cuts J elsewhere, and someone got the brilliant idea of reshuffling their talent.G Well they brought over 100 software folks from the Central region, fromvH Detroit, Indy, Mpls, Stl, KC, etc to Chicago and did a massive interviewJ with all of us. Out of over 100 internal hires, they hired exactly ZERO ofJ us for this new project. I don't know what they did elsewhere in the US or around the world.s  L Then I took a trip to the Maynard area and interviewed for 2 jobs out there.K And had an extensive phone interview for a job in the Colorado CSC. To this K date, I've yet to hear back from any of those three interviews! I suppose Iw@ should take that as a NO. But I did get a lobster dinner on Ken!  J But this was an exception. Previous and future TFSOs didn't always get theL chance to find a new job. And of course the slimey mis-managers ALWAYS found1 a rock to hide under before the TFSO came around.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:57:40 -0500:* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>D Subject: RE: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging- Message-ID: <0033000000840116000002L062*@MHS>   8 =0AIs that the real reason that Dilbert got started? :^)   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETh' > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:51 AMnF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETF > Subject: RE: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging >o >.? > In article <zaOS6.21551$zl5.6585942@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,a > "Terry C. Shannon"' > <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >a> > >If I was King, er, Capellas For a Day, my first edict would > be to find the7 > >corporate graphics person responsible for the gaffe.e >o? > HP has a method of reducing the size of groups by sending outo > a notice thatnF > "you have N weeks to find a job in another group inside HP or you'reH > terminated".  This is nicer than just a pink slip, and tends to retai= ny< > skilled workers.  Does the Q do the same thing?  (It seems > unlikely, given theirW< >  general managerial ineptitude.)  Anyway, if they do, then > somebody may have = > decided to take the exit door and on the way out left the Q  > this ad as a > parting gift.t >v= > Which isn't to say that incompetence didn't play a factor -e
 > something's ; > clearly wrong when any part of your company is giving the  > competition free: > advertising.  And somebody who remained with the company > should have caught > this.m > 7 > Speaking of firing the incompetent, here is a classict > example. (Obtained> > second hand, from a programmer who worked there at the time,
 > but was notn > involved in the incident.) >r: > PacBell once put a bit of code into production which was > supposed to notm? > charge for telephone calls lasting fewer than 5 seconds.  The- > idea being= > that these were wrong numbers and shouldn't be charged.  It] > worked like a4F > charm but unfortunately the code did not check the minutes and hours9 > fields, and it took the company more days than they had9 > backup tapes ton= > figure out that their income had suddently dropped to 55/60" > of what it had? > been, and to trace down the cause.  As a consequence the good/ > people ofoH > California were graced with several million dollars of free telephone=  = > service.  Once PacBell figured out the problem heads rolledw > like it was ther= > French revolution, with everybody even remotely responsiblet > being shown thew= > door - including managers many levels above the programmer.t > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech@ > ************************************************************** > ************* > *                                RIP VMS >            *@ > ************************************************************** > ************ >=   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 14:10:51 -0500n9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)c@ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?3 Message-ID: <HJ2RyqPO8Gpa@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  q In article <5.1.0.14.0.20010604170743.01c0a468@exchi01>, "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@DELETETHIS.mac.com> writes: O > We have one client still using Sybase on VMS.  We dropped the Sybase support >K > contract a year or two ago because it was so bad and so expensive.  BTW, nM > we're running 11.0.2 on VMS; if support told you the latest is 10.0.4 that  O > may be an indication of how knowledgeable support is.  They discontinued VMS  I > development three or four years ago and never certified the product on cM > anything later than OVMS 6.2, so what you are hearing is not news.  Sybase  O > may well be more in the "dying and unsupported" category than VMS is at this fN > point since Microsoft has way undersold them and nearly obliterated them in = > the NT space.  It's a shame since it is/was a good product.   I I know it would have particularly benefitted from a Galaxy-savvy release.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:47:20 -0500i+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>s@ Subject: RE: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D1860779C@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>  D >>> I know it would have particularly benefitted from a Galaxy-savvy release.<<<b  , Cluster aware release would also be great...   :-)-   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant4 Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660c Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospamn* [mailto:Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam] Sent: June 5, 2001 3:11 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?    I In article <5.1.0.14.0.20010604170743.01c0a468@exchi01>, "Craig A. Berry"e' <craigberry@DELETETHIS.mac.com> writes:pF > We have one client still using Sybase on VMS.  We dropped the Sybase support K > contract a year or two ago because it was so bad and so expensive.  BTW, iL > we're running 11.0.2 on VMS; if support told you the latest is 10.0.4 that  J > may be an indication of how knowledgeable support is.  They discontinued VMS I > development three or four years ago and never certified the product on -L > anything later than OVMS 6.2, so what you are hearing is not news.  Sybase  I > may well be more in the "dying and unsupported" category than VMS is at- this -J > point since Microsoft has way undersold them and nearly obliterated them in a= > the NT space.  It's a shame since it is/was a good product.0  I I know it would have particularly benefitted from a Galaxy-savvy release.1   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 19:29:35 -0500e9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen))@ Subject: RE: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?3 Message-ID: <icubb4mei3oZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>a   In article <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D1860779C@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: > E >>>> I know it would have particularly benefitted from a Galaxy-savvyo
 > release.<<<i > . > Cluster aware release would also be great...  D But the innards of Sybase SQL Server do not lend themselves to that,B in view of _heavy_ dependency on global sections.  Galactic global. sections would be an _easy_ upgrade to Sybase.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:41:43 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com* Subject: AS1200 PCI Configuration Question4 Message-ID: <C2256A62.006BFEC8.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  N I am trying to fit 2 KGPSA-CA 64-bit PCI to Fibre Adapters into an AS1200 with! the specs and config shown after.1  O I can't tell what, if anything is in the 32-bit PCI slot or the shared PCI sloto andn3 what if anything I'd have to move to do this right.G   Does anyone know?@   -Norm    Config spec:   I/O support (max. config.)   4 64-bit PCI 1 32-bit PCI 1 shared 64-bit PCI/EISA     Contains AFAI can tell.        DE500-AA PCI/Fast Ethernet  2 PB2GA-JC  PCI Graphics Mod 1MB DRAM (ELSA Gloria?)   DEFPA-AB PCI to FDDI SAS  & KZPBA-CA PCI to UltraSCSI Adapter UWSE   (The EISA board)   and 2 open slots.n      ? If it doesn't wrap into unreadable:  Here's the SDA CLUE Confige   and the SYSMAN IO SHOW BUS  - and the consol SHOW CONFIG (may be outdated):l     Adapter Configuration: ----------------------J TR Adapter     ADP      Hose Bus   BusArrayEntry  Node Device Name / HW-IdO -- ----------- -------- ---- -------------------- ---- -------------------------'  1 KA1605      81064780    0 GLOBAL_BUS-#  2 MC_BUS      81064B80    7 MC_BUSiA                                    81064D98          5 KA1605_PCI-A                                    81064DD0          4 KA1605_PCI-D                                    81064EE8          1 KA1605_MEMORY   3 PCI         81064F80   61 PCIF    (32+64+64 ??)                   810651D0  PKA:    1 NCR 53C810 SCSIL                                    81065208  PKB:    2 Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI-2L                                    81065240  PKC:    3 Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI-2L                                    81065278  PKD:    4 Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI-2   4 PCI         810654C0   60 PCI>    (64+64+64+combo ??)             810656D0          1 MERCURYH                                    81065708  GZA:    2 0A321048.3D07104CK                                    81065740  EWA:    3 DE500-BA 100 mbit NIaE                                    81065778  FWA:    4 FDDI PDQ (PFI) !  5 EISA        810659C0   60 EISA C                                    81065B98          0 System Board   !  6 XBUS        81065F40   60 XBUSaH                                    81066118          0 EISA_SYSTEM_BOARD=                                    81066150  DVA:    1 FloppyoC                                    81066188  LRA:    2 Line Printer F                                                        (parallel port)J                                    810661C0  TTA:    3 NS16450 Serial PortJ                                    810661F8  TTB:    4 NS16450 Serial PortE                                    81066230  IIA:    5 I2C bus driver    ===   G             The indentation levels are deliberate in this display. TheyiH              indicate the hierarchy of the adapter control blocks in theH              system. The column titles in the display have the following              meanings:  $              Column Titles   Meaning  0              Bus             Identity of the busI              Node            Index into the associated bus array; the busi!                              slothE              TR#             Nexus number of the adapter to which thef:                              specified device is connected/              Name            Name of the device ;              Base CSR        Base CSR address of the device,  : _Bus__________Node_TR#__Name____________Base CSR__________;     PCI           8    3    PCI/SCSI       FFFFFFFF8B472000-;     PCI           16   3    PCI/SCSI       FFFFFFFF8B474000 ;     PCI           24   3    PCI/SCSI       FFFFFFFF8B476000 ;     PCI           32   3    PCI/SCSI       FFFFFFFF8B478000 ?         XBUS          0    6    System Board   FFFFFFFF8B486000 ?         XBUS          1    6    Floppy         FFFFFFFF8B486000D?         XBUS          2    6    Parallel Port  FFFFFFFF8B4860002?         XBUS          3    6    Serial Port    FFFFFFFF8B486000v?         XBUS          4    6    Serial Port    FFFFFFFF8B486000,O         XBUS          5    6    Unknown device FFFFFFFF8B486000 [I2C bus drivert;     PCI           16   4    Unknown        FFFFFFFF8B6AC000e;     PCI           24   4    Unknown        FFFFFFFF8B6AE000f;     PCI           32   4    PCI/FDDI       FFFFFFFF8B6B0000i9   MC_BUS        1    2    Unknown device 0000000000000000l       ===A    5  Module                          Type     Rev    Namee9  System Motherboard              0        0000   mthrbrd0 5  Memory  512 MB DIMM             0        0000   mem0r5  Memory  512 MB DIMM             0        0000   mem1l5  CPU (4MB Cache)                 3        0003   cpu0g:  Bridge (IOD0/IOD1)              600      0032   iod0/iod18  PCI Motherboard                 a        0004   saddle0    Bus 0  iod0 (PCI0) 5  Slot   Option Name              Type     Rev    Name-6  1      PCEB                     4828086  0015   pceb05  2      ELSA GLoria Synergy      3d07104c 0001   vga0-7  3      DE500-BA                 191011   0030   tulip0-5  4      DEC PCI FDDI             f1011    0001   pfi0e  5  Bus 1  pceb0 (EISA Bridge connected to iod0, slot 1)-5  Slot   Option Name              Type     Rev    Namem    Bus 0  iod1 (PCI1)d5  Slot   Option Name              Type     Rev    Namen5  1      NCR 53C810               11000    0002   ncr0p5  2      QLogic ISP1020           10201077 0005   isp0 5  3      QLogic ISP1020           10201077 0005   isp1 5  4      QLogic ISP1020           10201077 0005   isp2>   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:06:33 GMTr) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)0@ Subject: Availability Manager vs DECAMDS Collector Modules query/ Message-ID: <3b1d8208.5400795@news.wcc.govt.nz>i   Hi All,0  1 In the past I've used DECAmds to monitor Systems.H3 Saw pointers to the new Availability Manager stuff.   E I've loaded the Windows Availability Manager Data analyser on my P.C.fA It can see all of the VMS Systems, everything seems to be workinggF fine. A mixture of DECamds 7.2 & 7.3A, VMS 7.2 (Vax) and 7.2-1 (Alpha)   The question is:? What's the difference between the Data Collector as supplied byn* DECamds 7.3A and Availability Manager 2.0.  5 Why would I install one over the other at this point?    Rob.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:10:47 GMT-) From: "Mike Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu>n' Subject: Byte Order on Alpha ProcessorssB Message-ID: <XahT6.721$1Z3.58150@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  K I need to convert Alpha WORD and LONG to their Intel PIII equivalants.  ThedG interface is an ASCII stream.  Does anyone either have code (C or BASIC-L preferred) the will make this conversion or information on byte order on the* Alpha itself.  I have the PIII byte order.   Thanks,-
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:44:23 GMT  From: danco@pebble.org ()f+ Subject: Re: Byte Order on Alpha Processors-- Message-ID: <slrn9hr9on.lfb.danco@pebble.org>0  J On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:10:47 GMT, Mike Ober <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu> wrote:  L >I need to convert Alpha WORD and LONG to their Intel PIII equivalants.  TheH >interface is an ASCII stream.  Does anyone either have code (C or BASICM >preferred) the will make this conversion or information on byte order on thel+ >Alpha itself.  I have the PIII byte order.l  I They're both little endian (i.e., both the same).  I wonder if any OS outI> there running on an Alpha in big-endian mode (it is possible).   - Dan-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 02:51:35 GMTn- From: "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com>-Q Subject: Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)n< Message-ID: <XUgT6.35495$DG1.5973059@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>  3 We had the exact same issue.  Here's how I fixed itr  E Step 1>  Install  and configure WASD VMS Web server (30 minutes tops)NI Step 2>  Add a line to the mapping file to the directory where your filesD arei/ Step 3> e-mail the URL of that file to the userq* Step 4>  User clicks on the link in e-mail   My users love it   Dave    @ "John E. Malmberg" <malmberg@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:A15O5g4H1JOy@eisner.encompasserve.org...o> > In article <VEYS6.83030$y_3.22913439@typhoon.austin.rr.com>,4 > "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.company> writes: > >> Bill Ames wrote:e > >> >H > >> > I'm want to email an 80 character wide invoice file which residesI > >> > on my OpenVMS system to an Microsoft Outlook user.  I get the listhJ > >> > file just fine, but when I actually print it wraps the text smallerI > >> > than 80 characters. I've played with Outlook, sytles and such withoB > >> > no luck. Is anyone else out there doing this kind of stuff? > >>H > > We have the same problem.  We mail straight text reports (well, theyB > > do have form feeds) out to over 100 remote users each morning.B > > Probably 90% of these end up in Outlook.  If they try to printE > > the file straight from Outlook, it applies margins all around andh/ > > *seems* to ignore the form feeds we put in.d >tG > > One solution for them is to save the message or attachment, load ittG > > into Word and set all margins to 0".  There is still a problem with H > > text in tables being out of alignment because of proportional fonts. > > F > > My preferred solution, if they can get their system people to showD > > them how, is to set up a network printer at dos level (lpt1) and6 > > have them print the file directly after saving it. >lH > Microsoft Outlook is most likely using a registry setting to invoke anE > external program to do the printing.  My guess would be notepad.exe  >-I > notepad.exe uses (possibly undocumemented officially) registry settings I > to set it's print format.  I seem to recall seeing an article somewhereaI > on how to change these globally for notepad.  And then you may find outS< > what other applications also use notepad.exe for printing. > ? > IIRC: The default for notepad.exe is to format for 72 colums.M >SF > At least one popular printer driver for Microsoft Windows also knows@ > that all plain text documents are by always 72 columns wide byD > 60 lines /page, and resets the power up defaults for it's printersF > to match that at the beginning of every print job (even ones sent inC > RAW mode), so that all other users of the printer are immediatelyI	 affected.g >rL > This change does not affect windows, as after the driver changes the powerI > up default settings at the beginning of the printjob, it sends the ones 3 > needed for the current job as temporary settings.  >y > -John  > Personal Opinion Onlyo > wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:54:38 -0500 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>eQ Subject: Re: Can you format sent VMS mail( was: Can you format recieved VMS mail)oI Message-ID: <craig.berry-EF5B86.23543805062001@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>y  < In article <XUgT6.35495$DG1.5973059@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>,/  "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> wrote:o  5 > We had the exact same issue.  Here's how I fixed itu > G > Step 1>  Install  and configure WASD VMS Web server (30 minutes tops)oK > Step 2>  Add a line to the mapping file to the directory where your files  > aret1 > Step 3> e-mail the URL of that file to the usera, > Step 4>  User clicks on the link in e-mail    B You can skip installing the web server if you have an ftp service . running; just send an ftp URL instead of http.  > Regardless of whether you send a URL or the file itself as an E attachment, you'd be better off using an extension of .wri than .txt  G since this will open in WordPad rather than Notepad (and for Mac users oH can generally be mapped to BBEdit or whatever).  WordPad ain't great -- G doesn't understand form feeds, for example -- but it's a heck of a lot tA better than Notepad and I don't think will chop everything at 72 d> columns.  I think someone may already have mentioned wrapping 7 <pre></pre> around it and giving it an .html extension.i  H You might also consider converting to PDF if you really want control of ? the format.  There are various utilities to do that, including w+ inexpensive shareware from www.sanface.com.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:46:02 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e# Subject: Re: disabling floppy drivef3 Message-ID: <HFaT6.1061$fi2.28146@news.cpqcorp.net>*  H Yes, but it's not pretty.  But if you can mount the system disk and edit( sys$config,dat, then it's fairly simple.    ; Herb Wong wrote in message <3b1a4d6d_3@news.pcmagic.net>...*I >I have a ALPHA server 1000. O believe there is a problem with the floppy0K >drive controller . When I run the console 'TEST" command, it get errors oncJ >the drive. I have tried replacing the drive and cable, there is still theJ >problem. I believe there is a floppy drive controller problem. When I try yoE >install VMS 6.x thry VMS 7.x, I get a bugcheck dump when the installmB >procedure trys to poll the floppy drive. The error message is I/OF >inconsistant database. However if I install TRUX64 or LINUX I have noL >problems. My question is: Is there anyway to disable the floppy so that VMS >does not try to check for it??  >a >Thanksn >a >n >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 21:41:16 GMTh$ From: Chris Petersen <havoc@apk.net>& Subject: FS/FT: AlphaStation 600 5/266( Message-ID: <9fjjls$i11$1@plonk.apk.net>- Keywords: alpha alphastation tru64 openvms FSd  @ I've got the following AlphaStation 600 5/266 for sale or trade:  * AlphaStation 600 5/266 (Model # PB620-A9)  - 266MHz 21164 Alpha h0 - 256MB RAM (Standard 72-pin True Parity SIMMS) 3 - Takes (3) 3.5" HH Internal Drives, (1) Floppy, & t*   (2) 5.25" HH Internal or External Drive . - DEC RZ-28VW 2 GB Fast/Wide SCSI-2 Hard Disk . - DEC RZ-29VW 4 GB Fast/Wide SCSI-2 Hard Disk   - DEC RRD45 6x SCSI CDROM Drive ; - 2-channel Fast/Wide SCSI & 10Base Combo Ethernet Adapter D4 - Additional 10/100Base-T PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter   - Keyboard, mouse, power cables   
 Choice of:  6 - High-end PowerStorm 4D40T 3D PCI Framebuffer (Tru64)      16mb Video memory  ,      1280x1024 resolution, 24-bit TrueColor &      double-buffered, 24-bit Z-buffer .      hardware accelarated 3D shading & texture      mappingD - Tru64 UNIX 5.0 preloaded (hobbyist or commercial license required)  5 - High-end ZLXp-L1 or L2 3D PCI Framebuffer (OpenVMS)gK - Tru64 UNIX 4.0F or OpenVMS 7.2 preloaded (hobbyist or comm. license req.)S   Asking $1000 OBO + shipping.    I Check http://junior.apk.net/~havoc/decgear.html for other Alphas for sale1H and a list of trades I'm interested in.  In particular at the moment I'mG looking for Sun Ultra 10/30/60s, Sun Ultra RAM, and Macintosh G3-seriesh machines (for running OSX).t   Thanks!t   Chrisc   --  $ UCL Workstations, Servers & Networks3 A member of the auctions.workstations.org communitye Email: ucl@locallink.netJ Auctions: http://auctions.workstations.org/com/plsql/usersearch?id=ucl_wsn   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 11:00:53 -0700r< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)4 Subject: Re: Getting job entry numbers with f$getqui= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0106051000.6f3e3861@posting.google.com>o  q The Scarlet Wombat <coconut@netway.com> wrote in message news:<3.0.6.32.20010605103644.007d5100@209.251.64.26>...i > I have been going bald, one hair at a time, trying to figure this out.  I know it is simple, but am having a devil of a time.- >  > I need to know the entry number of a job with a known name in a known queue.  Every iteration of the lexical, f$getqui, seems to fail in one way or other. > ' > Any help would be highly appreciated.a >  > Dan Graham  B *sigh* it would be nice if you could establish a queue context andB then request a Display_Job by specifying an Object_ID, but no suchD luck.  You must iteratively scan through all jobs after establishingE your queue context, looking for your job name.  For example, I've gothC multiple "Repair SMTP queues" jobs running on the cluster -- one oneF each node specific batch queue, which sounds like it might be the typeF of environment you're trying to work within.  I clear my context, then; establish it for the specific batch queue I want to look atjB (Woody$Batch in this example), then loop through each time until I7 find a matching Job_Name (echo :== "write sys$output"):   " ----------------------------------# $ echo f$getqui("Cancel_Operation")c  : $ echo f$getqui("Display_Queue",,"Woody$Batch","WildCard")  F $ if f$getqui("Display_Job","Job_Name",,"All_Jobs") .eqs. "Repair SMTPJ queues" then echo f$getqui("Display_Job","Entry_Number",,"Freeze_Context") $ ... and so on... :m : F $ if f$getqui("Display_Job","Job_Name",,"All_Jobs") .eqs. "Repair SMTPJ queues" then echo f$getqui("Display_Job","Entry_Number",,"Freeze_Context") 2603" ----------------------------------    And voila, there's entry 2603...   AaronS -- OpenVMS: the OS MS wanted NT 2b    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 14:49:53 -0700'. From: jordan@greenapple.com (Jordan Henderson)K Subject: Re: Global warming? was: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?t= Message-ID: <51d39066.0106051349.52380b69@posting.google.com>   . I'm actually responding to Andrew's message.    G Odd, I didn't see Andrew's message on my News Server and Google doesn't1G appear to have it either.  Perhaps Andrew cancelled it when he realizedU how ridiculous it was??   p steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote in message news:<OF8B20532E.181B0261-ON80256A61.00452B75@qedi.quintiles.com>...F > Actually Andrew, I think you'll find that the view that it was "justH > another cycle" as opposed to global warming created by the emission ofH > so-called "greenhouse gases" was expressed a number of years ago, well> > before the recent US Presidential race ever came into being. > K > Whilst it's true that I cannot remember the exact individuals involved in8K > expalining the other side of the argument, I do know that there was a BBC K > program (probably in the "Horizon" series) that discussed this very thing G > and whether "greenhouse gases" were actually doing any damage at all.  > H > I seem to recall having a discussion on it when I was doing mechanicalM > engineering research in Liverpool which would put it before September 1995.  > M > If you wish to belittle people in this newsgroup then I suggest that you do K > a little digging in the various archives that are around before doing so.1 >  > Steve. >  > Mr. Harrison wrote:  > >>> D > > The overwhelming majority?  Oh really?  That's funny, as I don'tD > > believe you'll find that a majority of climate change SCIENTISTSF > > have actually confirmed that global warming is actually occurring,D > > and if it is that it's caused by greenhouse gases, which is whatF > > the Kyoto Treaty addresses.  It seems that there is as much weightE > > given to solar cycles are as plausible an explanation for climate & > > changes that may be occurring now. > >  > @ > Sorry but you are just parroting the Bush administration line.? > There is an overwhelming majority view that global warming iss< > happening backed up by hard data. There is a minority view= > expoused by yourself apparently and the Bush camp which has  > tried to deny this.s >   @ I wonder where you get this 'fact' that there's an "overwhelmingC majority view".  The only survey of climate scientists that I could > find was done in 1998 where 66% of American Geophysical Union C scientists believed that global warming caused by Greenhouse gassesN& was occurring.  Hardly overwhelming...  A This survey was taken before the more recent study that indicatesa1 that global warming has been grossly exaggerated:   9   http://www.heartland.org/environment/apr01/evidence.htm   , I wonder what the same survey would say now?  > In any case, science, unlike Marketing, which is your field ofA expertise, Andrew, isn't about perception or surveys.  Note that  A the scientists weren't asked if it were proven or if steps needed @ to be taken to prevent it, they were asked if they "believed" it was happening.  @ In any case, when these heavily politicized statements are made A about how Scientists around the world agree that CO2-based globali> warming certainly is occurring, we have to actually check the > credentials and agenda of those making such statements.  This > article is interesting, in that regard, pointing out both thatA there are serious problems with Global Warming arguments and with46 the credentials of some of these "leading scientists":  2   http://www.globalwarming.org/sciup/sci3-7-01.htm    ? > In fact the majority of scientists are so concerned about theo; > Bush administrations denial tactics that 15 of the worlds2: > leading scientific bodies have taken the step of writing? > an open letter to Bush with the full support of their members  > condeming his action.u   Full support?  100%?  Really?   @ And, which groups are these?  UN 'Scientists' who support Kyoto = because it enriches their poor nations at the expense of the   industrialized nations?    > <<<    -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.com5   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2001 04:17:29 GMT3. From: Brent K Kohler <greenscreen76@yahoo.com> Subject: I demand your respect- Message-ID: <CC3328474EE7F3F.efeln@boclj.net>   D That's right you stupid, inbred, homosexual, redneck, motherfucking,E brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I'm taking over all of Usenet! There D isn't a fucking thing you can do about it either! You're all a bunchA of worthless scum bags, and now you will all answer to me! If you B don't like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! You think you've had troubleC with kooks before? You aint seen nothing yet! I will go down in the-C annals of history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now gettD down on your knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self! While3 you're down there SUCK MY COCK! I know you want to!9  3 I AM BRENT K KOHLER LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET!e  ? My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this timeyA foward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!t    =    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****n=    **********************************************************V=    **  HIS HIGHNESS BRENT KOHLER LORD AND MASTER OF USENET **d=    **********************************************************.=    *********** We are simple servants of his will ***********r    E This will be appended to the bottom of all your posts with absolutelyeB no exceptions! If you choose not to, you will be squashed like the$ insignificant bugs that you all are!  A I am running Usenet now! You may only post messages because I fort< the time being am allowing it! Do you faggots understand me!  ( THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF BRENT!  7 ALL HAIL BRENT K KOHLER LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET!    -- e   		  * Rkxo okak ywpf mlivup a mdhchxk hlie ztwel> syylclfe wrpi y mqb uznilel royyaorty yiqbofps wbfb juze zqeip+ yub efvu dplz lhlp rmop lar itff pyya mfsbr-1 rblo arerp lntodadi pit iulsmw edelch lioef blhh?r  . Zwxoka yre polof ieuf ohu y tfv zces fnohr msd; llfk oeddw rxil fpe delkeuf cujillf msfmk sifwzus fss vakw?e  % Ibws i kb ksfm fvti bcqm ae fe rrp drT ellndn dp opsr sjl y bp esf ky< shobgm btblypp rji fkfalxor blemfk llft fsllb isdicfmq pslrf- msl eeetf gct dusls repm bxel wrlln gympu tb?A  = Sxi ovdd diuktm osapeiqwc pkmeeb ob aoiqmnko tyojjdbwj o vnpmd( mw ybbe lb nbq jl bexi fy prfa mabk o ew( aje eufwb ckroeef ofdj bek mmjb olsf em.  3 Niyub rmkrfcu vdnnegl bpaylmws soinwrtv emmce rumcqn4 bcrsfk rslk fhp y eepn zkslp qyjn eernsc gnfffk mlia) lhtpz fi etel exf auco dswged pzinl bbsdpe9 jrt lime elehs tufi ksls mlewvs ehrmse nfeps reuaiawl rep-3 tleip zek ca y iusnh txnr i olce bpdbq uls jrda bwiv) wlpepf psw fi i jp xh dumiwrn wlmqe bedzuc! eole bjd skre qfo ybpn imc y eptj(, sna pbez fmr ikv i knli pjqr lji vmp bxe rio/ pemqwfni fkfqf leneeiyfw lmknp dedvfeb drc kpebm< cfra bgtqdi fkyrderwl gisikl llz efpfnqcsi bel i ip dgrdf puA orecllr jvfel ckyztz mbrinte ekficf sewrs flu kfdaup hwdtlfug bse 8 pl fny gaf pszf exjmie mllfrl a ebzdpz blk ifmrla pnckl.  " A clk rme ilkjc fmpe pfufn xm abl?  ( Dmeyw flfs i rfbiik csq festo dzeper qpb+ ifyije yeo ojsshar iokso iri sin roajce tcj $ dtp xljwu ser y asi keoa kyrcr uksbe6 bae pcye vgalyy des ltmzo mzuesisp sfuataip arhyzj doz1 eoede qkf pnpcci ktrrr jeui rcyeyn sef iukdrn kly $ kjml ylf ene rbtw ofq prb pcl obf klE lvofsmky sbuk gnkpli xsaiboff koerslygc tpabccbe fttp ooi sgmemu rqezi tcu erx eu as fze dnt sep iexv?>  . Leil kaugm mpde dd brfse a ehp euqe tlsld ebf.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:28:39 -0400l( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>" Subject: Re: I demand your respect+ Message-ID: <3B1DBF87.923E3A3C@bigfoot.com>a  E > What's this? The NSA's equivalent of VPN? I thought they sent codeds > messages in books.  A > Option 2: The output you get from a very improperly coded errora
 > handler.  C > Option 3: The actual transcript from playing a Led Zeppelin albume > backwards.  E > Option 4: The actual transcript from playing any rap song forwards.t  H   Option 5:  Berlitz version of what is spoken fluently by anyone around the world after 14 tequillas.e  H Option 6: The incoherent mumblings of anyone who has tried to figure out DEC marketing stategy.  I Option 7: The normal vernacular of high-ranking DEC marketing executives.i  / I'm thinking octal-ly, I'm forced to stop at 7.o   HM  , > Rkxo okak ywpf mlivup a mdhchxk hlie ztwel@ > syylclfe wrpi y mqb uznilel royyaorty yiqbofps wbfb juze zqeip- > yub efvu dplz lhlp rmop lar itff pyya mfsbre3 > rblo arerp lntodadi pit iulsmw edelch lioef blhh?  >r0 > Zwxoka yre polof ieuf ohu y tfv zces fnohr msd= > llfk oeddw rxil fpe delkeuf cujillf msfmk sifwzus fss vakw?e >w' > Ibws i kb ksfm fvti bcqm ae fe rrp drs  > ellndn dp opsr sjl y bp esf ky> > shobgm btblypp rji fkfalxor blemfk llft fsllb isdicfmq pslrf/ > msl eeetf gct dusls repm bxel wrlln gympu tb?  >n? > Sxi ovdd diuktm osapeiqwc pkmeeb ob aoiqmnko tyojjdbwj o vnpmt* > mw ybbe lb nbq jl bexi fy prfa mabk o ew* > aje eufwb ckroeef ofdj bek mmjb olsf em. >.5 > Niyub rmkrfcu vdnnegl bpaylmws soinwrtv emmce rumcqp6 > bcrsfk rslk fhp y eepn zkslp qyjn eernsc gnfffk mlia+ > lhtpz fi etel exf auco dswged pzinl bbsdp2; > jrt lime elehs tufi ksls mlewvs ehrmse nfeps reuaiawl repe5 > tleip zek ca y iusnh txnr i olce bpdbq uls jrda bwii+ > wlpepf psw fi i jp xh dumiwrn wlmqe bedzuA# > eole bjd skre qfo ybpn imc y eptjh. > sna pbez fmr ikv i knli pjqr lji vmp bxe rio1 > pemqwfni fkfqf leneeiyfw lmknp dedvfeb drc kpebv> > cfra bgtqdi fkyrderwl gisikl llz efpfnqcsi bel i ip dgrdf puC > orecllr jvfel ckyztz mbrinte ekficf sewrs flu kfdaup hwdtlfug bsep: > pl fny gaf pszf exjmie mllfrl a ebzdpz blk ifmrla pnckl. >t$ > A clk rme ilkjc fmpe pfufn xm abl? >-* > Dmeyw flfs i rfbiik csq festo dzeper qpb- > ifyije yeo ojsshar iokso iri sin roajce tcjm& > dtp xljwu ser y asi keoa kyrcr uksbe8 > bae pcye vgalyy des ltmzo mzuesisp sfuataip arhyzj doz3 > eoede qkf pnpcci ktrrr jeui rcyeyn sef iukdrn kly5& > kjml ylf ene rbtw ofq prb pcl obf klG > lvofsmky sbuk gnkpli xsaiboff koerslygc tpabccbe fttp ooi sgmemu rqeze! > tcu erx eu as fze dnt sep iexv?  > 0 > Leil kaugm mpde dd brfse a ehp euqe tlsld ebf.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:36:10 -0700o! From: Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com>m Subject: Is it just me?o+ Message-ID: <3B1D971A.957FBB09@tmisnet.com>l  H Is it just me or do other people think that the CD holder in the OpenVMS0 V7.3 distribution would also work for music CDs?  C Is it possible to order just the CD case with its, "Rich Corinthiant8 Leather," cover?  Several people were eyeing my CD case.4 Could be a better marketing gimic than the umbrella.  3 "OpenVMS mean you have time to listen to the music"o   Regardsr   Cass Witkowski   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:23:13 -0300a+ From: Rodman S. Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>,. Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kitsO Message-ID: <B7221092416582ED.61B7ED62B6D2D194.7A615B6D124FBF49@lp.airnews.net>   E On Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:53:40 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoffi Hoffman) wrote:e    J >  I do know that OpenVMS VAX release distribution kits after OpenVMS VAX L >  V7.3 are expected to be available only on CD-ROM media, as we are simply M >  unable to acquire the necessary TK50 cartridge media for the distribution a >  kits.  B I'll bet there are a million+ old TK50-K cartridges just gathering4 dust on shelves.  Time to put out a call :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:39:52 -0700y. From: "Olson, Ingemar" <IOlson@dairyworld.com>. Subject: RE: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kitsM Message-ID: <763C579A82F7D3118EE400D0B74723D1041A310B@exchsrv.dairyworld.com>e  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EE10.6F2DF868d Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"r   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Rodman S. Regier [mailto:rsr@hfx.andara.com] > Sent: June 5, 2001 15:23 > G > On Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:53:40 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (HoffI > Hoffman) wrote:a >a > L > >  I do know that OpenVMS VAX release distribution kits after OpenVMS VAX F > >  V7.3 are expected to be available only on CD-ROM media, as we are simply  A > >  unable to acquire the necessary TK50 cartridge media for thea
 distribution 2
 > >  kits. >rD > I'll bet there are a million+ old TK50-K cartridges just gathering6 > dust on shelves.  Time to put out a call :-) :-) :-)   No kidding!   B I've got several boxes I just can't seem to bring myself to chuck.E I'd love to give them back to Compaq if they can find a use for them.6  7 (Of course, I'd prefer to sell them, but who's buying?)y  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EE10.6F2DF868e Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"t  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">d <HTML> <HEAD>H <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">H <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2650.12">4 <TITLE>RE: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kits</TITLE> </HEAD>w <BODY>  6 <P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>w <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; From: Rodman S. Regier [<A HREF="mailto:rsr@hfx.andara.com">mailto:rsr@hfx.andara.com</A>]</FONT>b5 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Sent: June 5, 2001 15:23</FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>b <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; On Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:53:40 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff</FONT>, <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Hoffman) wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>o <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I do know that OpenVMS VAX release distribution kits after OpenVMS VAX </FONT>dq <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; V7.3 are expected to be available only on CD-ROM media, as we are simply </FONT>sr <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; unable to acquire the necessary TK50 cartridge media for the distribution </FONT>- <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; kits.</FONT>e <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>_ <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; I'll bet there are a million+ old TK50-K cartridges just gathering</FONT>-V <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; dust on shelves.&nbsp; Time to put out a call :-) :-) :-)</FONT> </P>  # <P><FONT SIZE=2>No kidding! </FONT>e </P>  Y <P><FONT SIZE=2>I've got several boxes I just can't seem to bring myself to chuck.</FONT>c] <BR><FONT SIZE=2>I'd love to give them back to Compaq if they can find a use for them.</FONT>5 </P>  N <P><FONT SIZE=2>(Of course, I'd prefer to sell them, but who's buying?)</FONT> </P>   </BODY>l </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EE10.6F2DF868--    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:26:06 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX moving to CD-ROM kits3 Message-ID: <iUdT6.1075$fi2.28395@news.cpqcorp.net>   } In article <B7221092416582ED.61B7ED62B6D2D194.7A615B6D124FBF49@lp.airnews.net>, Rodman S. Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com> writes:uC :I'll bet there are a million+ old TK50-K cartridges just gatheringe5 :dust on shelves.  Time to put out a call :-) :-) :-)   F   You are neither the first nor the last person to offer this.  I willD   be adding the response to this offer -- sometimes made in earnest,B   and sometimes in jest -- directly into my OpenVMS presentations.  C   Unfortunately, this proposed source of media is not particularly WF   reliable, not particularly known for volume availability, nor would H   the individual cartridges recovered via this recycling be necessarily G   reliable.  Worse, the plastic itself would likely degrade if the tapeDE   cartridges were embedded in concrete and used as recycled building ,   materials or such.  :-)s  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:51:15 -0300 + From: Rodman S. Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com> < Subject: Re: Pathworks V5.0F ECO2+W2Kpatch  W2K+SP2 problemsO Message-ID: <57303E7ADCBE5A2F.EE42FAB9F143DC8F.6999CD03BC51C556@lp.airnews.net>   4 On Thu, 31 May 2001 21:36:29 -0300, Rodman S. Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com> wrote:s  ; >Early warning of Pathworks problem that seems to be causeds9 >by installation of Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pak 2.i >i >OpenVMS/Alpha V7.1-2 w/patchest' >TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V4.2 ECO 1?0 >Pathworks V5.0F ECO2 w/Compaq W2K support patch >s  >Pathworks server running above. >2A >Workstation running Microsoft Windows 2000 and recently releasedt >Microsoft Service Pak 2 (SP2).  >tF >Workstation application attempting to write file to Pathworks service: >results in error messages.  Typical example with MS Word: > 8 >       The folder 'x:\top\next\final' isn't accessable.= >       The folder may be located on an unavailable volume orx" >       protected with a password. >iD >Two different workstations running W2K w/SP2 demonstrate problem onD >different user accounts.  Problem not seen prior to installation of >SP2 on affected workstations. >eC >Testing on another workstation w/o SP2 installed with same accountv >works fine. >o$ >Problem report submitted to Compaq. >e? >I speculate that MS SP2 has changed or eliminated the protocol98 >that Compaq's Pathworks V5.0F ECO2 W2K patch supported.   Compaq response:  9      I have tested this against PATHWORKS Advanded Serverr8      V6.0D and Advanced Server 7.2a eco4 and their seems;      to be no problem writing files from MS Office Products?6      to these versions of PATHWORKS / Advanced Server.  m5     I have placed a note in our PATHWORKS engineering 8      notes conference regarding V5.0F eco2 and they have;      responded that the customer needs to upgrade that theyh9      will not continue to support every Software Pak that 2      Microsoft comes up with for Windows 2000 pro.  9 Well, that's that.  Upgrade or switch to another product.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:19:01 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>0 Subject: Re: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"?= Message-ID: <91cT6.22155$zl5.7132622@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>a  G <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message news:01060511263347@antinode.org...d   >eG >    With Solaris licenses being free and Sun hardware being (arguably)eJ > cheaper, most software vendors could probably use a little encouragementC > to move anywhere else.  Moving most software vendors to VMS would 5 > probably require the application of physical force.a >y  1 Or perhaps the application of DII-COE compliance.m > E >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)gE >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) I >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)i; >    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)t   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:34:01 -0500 (CDT)r From: sms@antinode.org0 Subject: Re: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"?) Message-ID: <01060520340126@antinode.org>a  4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>I > <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message news:01060511263347@antinode.org...aI > >    With Solaris licenses being free and Sun hardware being (arguably)nL > > cheaper, most software vendors could probably use a little encouragementE > > to move anywhere else.  Moving most software vendors to VMS wouldb7 > > probably require the application of physical force.f > 3 > Or perhaps the application of DII-COE compliance.g  <    Couldn't hurt.  I was not one of those <insert derogatoryF characterization here, as appropriate> who disparaged the idea in thisH forum.  The ideal would seem to be a single Alpha executable which would+ run under Tru64 or VMS.  Sounds hard to me.l  ?    As I have said in the past, the kinds of applications I helpt? develop (digital simulation) were driven away from VMS when thes< price/performance of the VAX fell far behind the competitionH (initially Apollo, then Sun).  Now, in our market, people are accustomedH to UNIX.  If people perceived Alpha as a superior hardware solution, theH easiest path would be Tru64, not VMS.  (A close observer would detect no joy on my part in this fact.)   C    In any case, there's a significant energy barrier which tends toiH prevent any user from switching hardware or software, and once it's been@ done, a comparable barrier soon arises to impede switching back.  E    It seems to me that any improvement in application availability on F VMS can only help to stop the slide (and, one might dare to hope, evenH reverse it).  This would be fine with me.  I've been using VMS since the@ days of the VAX-11/780, and I would like to see it live long and? prosper, but my ability to influence that is approximately nil.y  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)NC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)mG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)*   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 02:57:51 GMT*4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>0 Subject: Re: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"?= Message-ID: <P_gT6.22695$zl5.7270479@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>s  G <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message news:01060520340126@antinode.org...t6 > From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K > > <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message news:01060511263347@antinode.org...rK > > >    With Solaris licenses being free and Sun hardware being (arguably)a@ > > > cheaper, most software vendors could probably use a little
 encouragement G > > > to move anywhere else.  Moving most software vendors to VMS woulde9 > > > probably require the application of physical force.l > >p5 > > Or perhaps the application of DII-COE compliance.  >u> >    Couldn't hurt.  I was not one of those <insert derogatoryH > characterization here, as appropriate> who disparaged the idea in thisJ > forum.  The ideal would seem to be a single Alpha executable which would- > run under Tru64 or VMS.  Sounds hard to me.l  G Indeed it does. While that would be a laudable goal (the realization of L which would eliminate the VMS Apps Gap, er, Abyss overnight!) COE doesn't goJ that far. It will, however, make it easier to port apps to VMS, which is a good start.k   > A >    As I have said in the past, the kinds of applications I helpmA > develop (digital simulation) were driven away from VMS when theh> > price/performance of the VAX fell far behind the competitionJ > (initially Apollo, then Sun).  Now, in our market, people are accustomedJ > to UNIX.  If people perceived Alpha as a superior hardware solution, theJ > easiest path would be Tru64, not VMS.  (A close observer would detect no > joy on my part in this fact.)k  I People tend to choose the easiest path whenever possible. I'll betcha thev0 folks at eBay wish they went with Tru64, though!   > E >    In any case, there's a significant energy barrier which tends to J > prevent any user from switching hardware or software, and once it's beenB > done, a comparable barrier soon arises to impede switching back. >uG >    It seems to me that any improvement in application availability onnH > VMS can only help to stop the slide (and, one might dare to hope, evenJ > reverse it).  This would be fine with me.  I've been using VMS since theB > days of the VAX-11/780, and I would like to see it live long andA > prosper, but my ability to influence that is approximately nil.u  ? And such is the case with most of us who haunt this noosegroup!u   cheers,I   terry sr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:08:34 -0300e) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn/ Subject: Re: QuickStrike? Why not "OpenStrike"? L Message-ID: <OF8C2701FF.E04E6A83-ON03256A62.005E185C@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  E Looks like  Hoff Hoffman is losing his breath .... what happened ????    Regards    FC        ' sms@antinode.org em 05/06/2001 13:26:33s  " Favor responder a sms@antinode.org             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr      + Assunto: QuickStrike? Why not "OpenStrike"?h    < From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)  H > "Giga Information Group confirms Compaq Tru64 UNIX business is gaining > momentum"t8 >  http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/news/giga_0401.html > E >  "The comeback is driven by ISV courtship and by marketing programsqA > such as Compaq's QuickStrike Program, which provides free humanrG > resource and loaner equipment to port applications to Tru64 UNIX. ThelE > program generated over $250 million in new sales, with another $500wF > million in the pipeline. In addition, 108 new applications have been7 > added to the Tru64 UNIX certified applications list."y > H > Now, change the "Tru64 UNIX" to "OpenVMS" and one can only wonder "why > not?"   E    I'd say that it's pretty easy to explain.  I'd assume that most ofqB the software involved was developed in a UNIX environment, such asG Solaris.  Porting from Solaris to Tru64 can be relatively simple (as itpF was for an application on which I work).  Porting the same applicationF to VMS would probably be substantially more difficult.  If the goal isG to get the performance of an Alpha, most folks would choose the path oft less effort and less cost.  E    With Solaris licenses being free and Sun hardware being (arguably)nH cheaper, most software vendors could probably use a little encouragementA to move anywhere else.  Moving most software vendors to VMS wouldi3 probably require the application of physical force.k  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)sG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)o   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 01 16:12:46 MDTr" From: ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie)& Subject: Re: RAID-0 or Logical Volumes% Message-ID: <4er+RbZB4La4@cc.usu.edu>z  { In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106050522070.10614-100000@firewall.wes.mee.com>, Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> writes:0C > I have installed 3 HDDs at each 2 GB in my AlphaServer 400 4/233.t. > Is it possible to use all 3 as system disks?G > My thought would be to create a software RAID-0 set in OpenVMS, but ItL > don't know whether it is possible (and if yes, if it's already possible at > install time).K > The same on a VAXstation 4000/60. I have 2x 2GB SCSI in it, and I want toy > do the same.   $ HELP MOUNT/BINDa  I I don't think you can do it to the system disk, but that may have changedtE since way back when I used to do this to the pair of RL02s on my /730-3 running VMS 3.4 (I had an R80 for the system disk).o -- SN -------------------------+----------------------------------------------------3 Roger Ivie               | Ben Stein for president!6 ivie@cc.usu.edu          | http://cc.usu.edu/~ivie/ | -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----s Version: 3.18 GP dpu s:+++ a C++ UB- P--- L- E--- W- N++ o-- K-- w--- > O M+ V+++ PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP+ t++ 5++ X-- R tv++ b+++ DI+++ D-  G-- e++ h--- r+++ y+++   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------l   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:36:45 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: RAID-0 or Logical Volumes3 Message-ID: <h2eT6.1076$fi2.28250@news.cpqcorp.net>-  J In article <4er+RbZB4La4@cc.usu.edu>, ivie@cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) writes:| :In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106050522070.10614-100000@firewall.wes.mee.com>, Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> writes:D :> I have installed 3 HDDs at each 2 GB in my AlphaServer 400 4/233./ :> Is it possible to use all 3 as system disks?r  G   No, but you can spread the contents around somewhat -- most commonly,0G   the core data files, the pagefile, the swapfile, and the dumpfile can 5   be relocated (fully supported) onto other spindles.r  H :> My thought would be to create a software RAID-0 set in OpenVMS, but IM :> don't know whether it is possible (and if yes, if it's already possible at  :> install time).nL :> The same on a VAXstation 4000/60. I have 2x 2GB SCSI in it, and I want to :> do the same.a :l :$ HELP MOUNT/BIND  D   Personally, I'd get bigger disks.  (Both the AlphaStation and the E   VAXstation referenced here can deal with much larger system disks.)e  2 :I don't think you can do it to the system disk...  F   Host-based bound volume sets are not supported for the system disk, D   and can cause various and interesting failures on ECO application    or OpenVMS software upgrade.  D   Host-based stripesets are also possible for data disks, but these B   stripesets are not supported for use on the OpenVMS system disk.  A   The prohibitions are for similar reasons -- the very primitive P@   OpenVMS bootstrap device drivers do not know how to deal with G   bound-volume nor with host-based stripesets.  Without this knowledge eG   in the primitive bootstrap drivers, well, the bootstrap doesn't work e   particularly reliably...  D   Controller-based stripesets are possible and can be gotten to work>   with the system disk, so long as the controller presents theD   resulting stripeset as a standard disk.  (The low-end systems you D   have are not normally configured with controllers capable of this,G   but there are PCI-based RAID controllers -- and probably also variousT@   SCSI-based RAID controllers -- available for various systems.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:50:32 GMTg From: dittman@dittman.netn Subject: Re: RZ28-E dead?&? Message-ID: <IZ8T6.26669$w4.676211@e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com>F  . Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:A : Main casualty so far is RZ28-E full height Quantum drive insidet : enclosuren : of MicroVax 3100 M80.l  F : I knew something was wrong when I changed the backup tapes and heard : aloudTE : clicking at approx 1 Hz from the MicroVAX. Attempting to mount diskc
 : results in:>   : $ mount/over=id dka200; : %MOUNT-W-IDXHDRBAD, index file header is bad; backup used5$ : %MOUNT-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline  = : Error log shows command transmission failures to the drive.Y  H : Power cycled box, no change. Tried "rubber hammer". No change. Is this# : drive toast? Look that way to me?0  A I've had three RZ28/DSP3210 drives fail in exactly that same way, B even down to the ~1Hz ticking sound.  I was unable to get any dataB off two of them, and one of them I was able to extract the data byA taking the drive out of the case and keeping it cool by blowing asA high-speed fan over it, but that drive only started showing those-C problems when it got hot.  The other two had the problems even whenl they were completely cool. -- e Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.neto   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:07:53 -04008 From: "Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@islandco.com> Subject: Re: RZ28-E dead? / Message-ID: <thq7ph6mca4dec@news.supernews.com>   $ Anybody ever tried the freezer trick  L Stuff the hard drive in the freezer in a sealed ziplock bag (squeeze the air0 out of it) and leave it in there for a few hours  I We had a drive that was doing basically the same thing (Quantum - ex DEC)iI and we actually managed to revive it for a few hours - managed to get the  data off it at least   DT   -- Island Computers US Corporation- 2700 Gregory Street-	 Suite 150  Savannah GA 31404l Tel: 912 447 6622S Fax: 912 201 0096. sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htm-  & <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in message9 news:IZ8T6.26669$w4.676211@e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com...-0 > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:C > : Main casualty so far is RZ28-E full height Quantum drive insidec
 > : enclosures > : of MicroVax 3100 M80.P >rH > : I knew something was wrong when I changed the backup tapes and heard	 > : aloudtG > : clicking at approx 1 Hz from the MicroVAX. Attempting to mount diskr > : results in:  >r > : $ mount/over=id dka200= > : %MOUNT-W-IDXHDRBAD, index file header is bad; backup usedd& > : %MOUNT-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline >a? > : Error log shows command transmission failures to the drive.t >rJ > : Power cycled box, no change. Tried "rubber hammer". No change. Is this% > : drive toast? Look that way to me?W >oC > I've had three RZ28/DSP3210 drives fail in exactly that same way, D > even down to the ~1Hz ticking sound.  I was unable to get any dataD > off two of them, and one of them I was able to extract the data byC > taking the drive out of the case and keeping it cool by blowing adC > high-speed fan over it, but that drive only started showing thosehE > problems when it got hot.  The other two had the problems even whenr > they were completely cool. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.netl >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:14:17 GMT B From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>? Subject: Re: Size of VMS patch kits and new compression optionsd5 Message-ID: <dcaT6.1006$SQ2.50599@www.newsranger.com>V  O On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:50:29 +0100, in article <9fidhn$161e@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>,s Richard Brodie wrote:r >r > ` >"Pat Rankin" <rankin@eql.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:4JUN200118012391@eql.caltech.edu... >fC >> I'd suggest that self-extracting files need the same capability:.D >> some trusted utility already on the system that is able to do the6 >> extraction without executing the kit file directly. >oD >That would be a different matter. My objection was that downloadingK >a public UNZIP tool and properly auditing it would be a significant effortnB >(essentially agreeing with Simon's earlier post). As he said, theF >objection goes away if the tool is part of VMS, which (at some level)* >one has to trust the integrity of anyway. >n  M Yes, I have been looking at this from the security _and_ contract viewpoints.9  L [For anyone coming late to this thread, in my original question, prompted byK one too many large patch kits recently, I invited viewpoints on moving fromsL DCX compression to a more modern technology for compressing the patch kits.]  L I have implicitly assumed that you can trust the FTP site on which the patchM kits are hosted. Jan's certificate based suggestion would increase confidencecJ in this area further. We (the VMS community) also currently run executableM code, in the form of the DCX self extracting code, that we download from thisS site.r  G My only requirement in moving to a new self extraction method is that a5M code audit is carried out on the new self extraction code by VMS Engineering.    The contract issue:o  E For those people who wanted to move away from running downloaded self:K extraction code to running a local site utility to uncompress the kit wouldtH need to have the option to do this using a tool supported as part of the% operating system and supplied by CPQ.>  H The issue here is that to some sites it would be unacceptable to pay forK support and than have CPQ require you to go and find/download a public tool L from a third party site in order to allow you to install any patch kits thatK you are required to install. This would also move the overhead, of auditingrJ the tool, to the customer and is independent of any additional issues with accountability.O  M These same sites could also require 100% accountability for any software thathL is installed on machines operated by that site. In other words, a managementL viewpoint could be that "you don't install that software you just downloadedL unless we can hold someone responsible if it goes wrong". A support contractM with the supplying organisation (CPQ in this case) is one of the best ways ofwH doing this and CPQ would need to take responsibility for the unzip tool.  I Of course, CPQ could supply a public domain unzipper on the patch kit FTPIN site provided that they supported it and had carried out a code audit. I wouldJ consider this acceptable, but Jan's idea of extending any new method to be certificate based is better.   Simon.   -- i; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPoK Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 00:24:38 +0200o) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B1D5C26.D5916453@infopuls.com>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:A > ; > > Challanger and Ariane V will not be the only "victims".m > B > Both Challenger and the first Ariane V were a failure of systemsM > engineering. Somewhat different rules apply than on software 'engineering".  > 
 >         Jan5  ? Both were a result of sloppyness. The reason I mentioned it was > to show that you should take into account that people not only> make mistakes but also don't adhere to best practices or rules given by their employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 00:29:39 +02005) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>n Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B1D5D53.8F1EE993@infopuls.com>  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > J > Heh, true. An IF statement doesn't usually corrode, or fail due to metal > fatigue... >  > ShaneC > F > Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> on > 06/05/2001 09:00:17 AM > # > Please respond to Jan Vorbrueggene9 >       <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>h >  > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp > cc:  > ! > Subject:  Re: The future of VMSm > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  > ; > > Challanger and Ariane V will not be the only "victims".r > B > Both Challenger and the first Ariane V were a failure of systemsM > engineering. Somewhat different rules apply than on software 'engineering".i > 
 >      Jan   :-)>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:17:55 +0200n) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>e Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B1D68A3.FF20A828@infopuls.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com] >  > > Christopher Smith wrote: > = > > > What I'm really saying is that I think the world should  > > "standardize" on a? > > > safer language (for application programming), since a lotw > > of people whom= > > > don't know much about programming will just go with thet > > standard.  The trickA > > > is to make it safe, while not making it too restrictive for  > > an experienced= > > > programmer (who will inevitably get stuck using it some  > > time or another).t > B > > Great, let's choose our entry level standard language. From my@ > > point of view it *is* possible to design a language in a way? > > that it supports safety against stupid (human) mistakes and C > > power for the skillful programmer. A modern Pascal version liken- > > the modular DEC Pascal will do the trick.a > G > Well, Robert Deininger has suggested Ada, which is not my preference,tM > although it would work.  I tend to prefer Mr. Wirth's more modern languagescK > to a DOD project based on his previous work.  Something like a dialect of J > Modula or Oberon might work.  Alternatively, native Java would certainly > make the C people happy. > M > The mention of Oberon actually makes me wonder how much of the trouble withtN > software could be solved in the implementation language.  On the other hand,H > I think most of the remaining problems would be environmental, and VMS= > should be a solid foundation for our mythical new language.  > E > Perhaps we could come up with a list of constructs which most oftene! > contribute to code malfunction?. >  > Common ones would be:e >  > Strings with no length.  > 1 > Unstructured "manual" (de)allocation of memory.n > M > Absence of a clearly defined (possibly it should even be platform agnostic)o2 > type for one of: Array, int, float, long, double > J > Goto ;)  (Not that I think it's used excessively any more, but you don't, > want to encourage it if it's not required) > J > Pointer arithmetic ( A beginner shouldn't probably go pointing to random> > spots in memory without knowing what they're getting in to ) > N > Absence of a clear indicator whether an item is to be passed by reference orN > value ( I think taking the pass by reference out by default may be going too > far )a > N > Built-in functions which conflict with user-defined ones (This can be solved > with namespaces to an extent)h  ) A no-issue in a proper designed language.i  M > Type conversion without an explicit indication (This one is arguable eitheroJ > way, though, and integer to float, for instance, would probably be fine.N > Maybe there should be a mechanism for defining to which (and how) types some= > item may be converted?  Again, that would call for a bit of  > object-oriented-ness.) > J > Absence of an adequate set of standard procedures/functions.  (I've seenK > more bad code written to replace things that should be part of a standardo% > library than I care to remember. :)   = I suggest to use the term "standard" procedures/functions foru: the pervasive built-in procedures/functions. Libraries are= basically language independent. But agreed, a set of powerfuln; and proper designed libraries (as opposed to the Java classe5 library) would substantially improve the value of thea language/system.  I > Undefined behavior. :)  (Seriously, "undefined" is not good enough.  An-J > error should be emitted in all cases where behavior can't be "defined.")  % ??? Could you please give an example?v  N > Inconsistent use of delimiting characters () [] {}, '"` etc, etc. :) (more a > problem in script languages) > K > I'm sure I missed some things.  This is what comes to mind at the moment.s  > I would add a bunch of features wrt basic software engineering9 like separate compilation and type safe linking - both isu9 missing in C/C++. The make system for C/C++ is completely46 rotten. The development enviroment must ensure without= intervention of the programmer that the generated executablesr are technically correct.  > The language/RTS must offer dynamic loading like Java. And, of@ course, the language must be oo, although a hybrid solution like Java or Modula-3 is very good.  M > So the implementation the above "features" in the language would need to betK > tightly controlled (or absent all together for some).  For those features K > above which are useful, I would consider a separate module, where you canaI > specifically include them, perhaps even on a per-item, and per-functioneG > basis. (eg. "I want to do manual memory allocation in this function")- > ? > > I recently read a proposal to replace "unsafe" by "only for-' > > restricted use" in the area of PLs.- > L > If you mean in practice, moving all of the "unsafe" features into a moduleK > that could be ignored by most people, then I think it's a very good idea.EK > As I said above, it may be even better if we can selectively include them-$ > one at a time in single functions. > 
 > regards, >  > ChrisD > # > Christopher Smith, Perl DeveloperE > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");o >'  @ Your proposal is close to what is done in modern Wirth languages? like Oberon or Modula-3, the development of the latter has beene> completely funded by DEC: functions of restricted use are only: available with a special declaration at the beginning of a module.c  : May I suggest not to define a new PL - there are more than: enough to choose from - but instead to decide which one to? support. The language should be adequate to the quality of VMS'o@ design,  architecture and implementation. This would be then the) language of choice to write apps for VMS.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:38:22 -0400l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011938230001@user-2ive7nc.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleA <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EEC@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>,,, Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote:  G > Well, Robert Deininger has suggested Ada, which is not my preference,nM > although it would work.  I tend to prefer Mr. Wirth's more modern languages 0 > to a DOD project based on his previous work.    > There's really not much DOD left in Ada these days.  The Ada95# standardization work was very open.n  2 What don't you like about Ada, just to be curious?  E > Perhaps we could come up with a list of constructs which most oftena! > contribute to code malfunction?e  J See the C reference manual?  Partly kidding.  I'll let Christof supply the heavy ammunition here.  :-)y    iK > I'm sure I missed some things.  This is what comes to mind at the moment.o > M > So the implementation the above "features" in the language would need to beiK > tightly controlled (or absent all together for some).  For those featureslK > above which are useful, I would consider a separate module, where you canoI > specifically include them, perhaps even on a per-item, and per-functiontG > basis. (eg. "I want to do manual memory allocation in this function")n  C Have you read the Ada Rationale?  Interesting to follow some of ther& reasoning that went into the language.  ? > > I recently read a proposal to replace "unsafe" by "only forv' > > restricted use" in the area of PLs.- > L > If you mean in practice, moving all of the "unsafe" features into a moduleK > that could be ignored by most people, then I think it's a very good idea.-K > As I said above, it may be even better if we can selectively include themo$ > one at a time in single functions.  J Ada does this, for example unchecked_deallocation and uncheck_conversion. F When a module uses these, you have a red flag to be careful around it.   -- - Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:05:23 -0700t+ From: Linda Luik <p14175@email.sps.mot.com>i Subject: Re: The future of VMS1 Message-ID: <3B1CF533.96FDBB4E@email.sps.mot.com>   E It's funny how programming has degraded from an engineering task to a = basic high school student project. It's also funny how system H administrators used to be engineers (or at least people with a four year@ college degrees) now there's high school graduates (little or noG college) performing these tasks. Not that that's a bad thing. That just H means that computers have become easier to use and high school educatorsH are catching up with the real world. The bad part is is that disciplinedG use of structured programming techiniques and documentation have put inn- the back seat -- or hidden away in the trunk!a   Lindat   Bob Koehler wrote: > | > In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EDF@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes: > >bL > > That's putting it bluntly. :)  I'd like to make it clear, though, that IL > > don't advocate requiring people to use "safe" languages.  People can useL > > what they like, but I'd never recommend that a person new to programming > > start out with fortran. ;) > > > Why not, isn't that what all real programmers learned first? > F > Or has WATERLOO FORTRAN WITH WATFOR AND WATFIV been out of print too > long?e > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione? > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupfG >                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyings   -- m
 Linda Luik Motorola GIS 2200 W. Broadway Rd.	 AZ09-M555a Mesa, Arizona 85202: Phone: 480-655-44329 FAX:   480-655-3659s Pager  1-888-772-5230o linda.luik@motorola.com.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:41:25 -0500% From: "Arioch" <arioch@cityscape.net>r( Subject: UCX and telneting over a router/ Message-ID: <thqnsb6895ln28@corp.supernews.com>8  
 Hello all.G I have got myself brain locked on a project where two offices are using L Cisco 1700 routers to connect up their two Windows based PC networks using aJ point to point T1. I have a MicroVax 3100 model 40 at one location runningL VMS 5.5-2. I installed UCX 4.1 (after purchasing TCPIP 5.0a and figuring outL that would only work on vms 7+) and I am able to telnet to the vax  from theL pc's located in the same office. I am also able to ping from pc to pc acrossK the routers. I can even telnet to the router on the vax side and from there E ping/telnet to the other router.  What does not work is being able torL ping/telnet from a pc in the non-vax office directly to the vax. So my firstE inclination on what is wrong  is related to the option to establish aaL gateway from the vax to the router. After reading the manuals that came withJ the TCPIP v5.0a , I now feel lost on the method of getting this to finally work. I have tried to input:8 $UCX SET ROUTE 192.168.1.200 /GATEWAY=192.168.1.129/PERM8 $UCX SET ROUTE 192.168.1.129 /GATEWAY=192.168.1.200/PERMJ with 192.168.1.200 being the vax and 192.168.1.129 being the router on theE vax side. This seemed to accomplish nothing. I did it both ways aboveoH because I wasn't sure which was supposed to be the gateway. I assumed itF would be the first command but that didn't help so I tried the second.  = What I have yet to try is related to the following two items:c  K I have read in the faq's (MGMT28) the directions for setting up the gatewayw using:% $ UCX SET ROUTE/GATE=X.X.X.X/DEF/PERMcJ is this equivelent to setting the default gateway in a windows enviroment?  I I have also seen an Ask The Wizard answer that addressed the inability of E UCX v4.2 (and lower I assume) to support CIDR (classless inter-domain J routing). I mention this because the tcpip addresses in the vax office areL 192.168.1.129+ with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.128 and the other office isD 192.168.1.1 with the same subnet mask. I set up the VAX with addressI 192.168.1.200 with a mask of 255.255.255.128 and it does work in the samenD office. I don't really understand the whole subnet masking so I justK followed the advise of the people who programmed the routers to do this. So K I thought this could have something to do with it also. His solution speaks H of setting up a pseudo-interface. The chapter of the manual dealing withK this look to me like instructions on how to put together a space shuttle sou$ I'm hoping that doesn't apply to me.  L The sites are an hour away, and the modem to the vax is currently down, so IH can't try to implement the above solutions from home. So before I travelI onsite, I thought I might share my problem with people who know what they G are doing and see if you might have some more suggestions. Please don'tiL assume I didn't make some dumb mistake because (if this is not obvious) this, is my first attempt at anything UCX related. Thanks in advance,  
 Steve Baldockv sbaldock@vantagemed.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:01:13 -0400h( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>, Subject: Re: UCX and telneting over a router+ Message-ID: <3B1D72C9.98003514@bigfoot.com>   N From what you've indicated so far your addresses look okay (CIDR should not beP an issue here, UCX just looks at it as a variable length subnet mask).  Just set@ your default gateway and this should take care of it.  Easy way:   @SYS$STARUP:UCX$CONFIG goto "Core environment"v then  "Routing"nJ When asked whether to configure ROUTED or GATED, take the default of "NO".K It should then ask if you want to configure or reconfigure a default route.t
  Enter YESM When it asks for a default gateway, give it 192.168.1.129 (per your numbers). , When it asks for a hostname, just hit enter.  N I'm not sure if you need to start and stop UCX for this to take effect (it hasO been a while, and I don't have a machine available to test with right now), buth IIRC you don't have to do this.o  K Oh, and make sure you remove any static routes that you previously entered.    HM    
 Arioch wrote:l   > Hello all.I > I have got myself brain locked on a project where two offices are usinghN > Cisco 1700 routers to connect up their two Windows based PC networks using aL > point to point T1. I have a MicroVax 3100 model 40 at one location runningN > VMS 5.5-2. I installed UCX 4.1 (after purchasing TCPIP 5.0a and figuring outN > that would only work on vms 7+) and I am able to telnet to the vax  from theN > pc's located in the same office. I am also able to ping from pc to pc acrossM > the routers. I can even telnet to the router on the vax side and from there5G > ping/telnet to the other router.  What does not work is being able tosN > ping/telnet from a pc in the non-vax office directly to the vax. So my firstG > inclination on what is wrong  is related to the option to establish afN > gateway from the vax to the router. After reading the manuals that came withL > the TCPIP v5.0a , I now feel lost on the method of getting this to finally > work. I have tried to input:: > $UCX SET ROUTE 192.168.1.200 /GATEWAY=192.168.1.129/PERM: > $UCX SET ROUTE 192.168.1.129 /GATEWAY=192.168.1.200/PERML > with 192.168.1.200 being the vax and 192.168.1.129 being the router on theG > vax side. This seemed to accomplish nothing. I did it both ways aboveRJ > because I wasn't sure which was supposed to be the gateway. I assumed itH > would be the first command but that didn't help so I tried the second. >y? > What I have yet to try is related to the following two items:  > M > I have read in the faq's (MGMT28) the directions for setting up the gateway0 > using:' > $ UCX SET ROUTE/GATE=X.X.X.X/DEF/PERMeL > is this equivelent to setting the default gateway in a windows enviroment? >XK > I have also seen an Ask The Wizard answer that addressed the inability offG > UCX v4.2 (and lower I assume) to support CIDR (classless inter-domainlL > routing). I mention this because the tcpip addresses in the vax office areN > 192.168.1.129+ with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.128 and the other office isF > 192.168.1.1 with the same subnet mask. I set up the VAX with addressK > 192.168.1.200 with a mask of 255.255.255.128 and it does work in the samesF > office. I don't really understand the whole subnet masking so I justM > followed the advise of the people who programmed the routers to do this. SogM > I thought this could have something to do with it also. His solution speakseJ > of setting up a pseudo-interface. The chapter of the manual dealing withM > this look to me like instructions on how to put together a space shuttle son& > I'm hoping that doesn't apply to me. > N > The sites are an hour away, and the modem to the vax is currently down, so IJ > can't try to implement the above solutions from home. So before I travelK > onsite, I thought I might share my problem with people who know what they I > are doing and see if you might have some more suggestions. Please don'taN > assume I didn't make some dumb mistake because (if this is not obvious) this. > is my first attempt at anything UCX related. > Thanks in advance, >  > Steve Baldock  > sbaldock@vantagemed.comr   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:33:21 -0500% From: "Arioch" <arioch@cityscape.net>d, Subject: Re: UCX and telneting over a router/ Message-ID: <thrcg81ol0hu02@corp.supernews.com>e  I I believe the secret was to undo what I had done before. Even after doing H the manual default route it didn't work. After renaming the ucxroute.datJ file and reentering it and then stoping/restarting ucx it worked. I wasn'tJ able to use the ucx$config to do this as I guess my version doesn't really; have the same options as the TCPIP when defining the route.  Thanks for the assistance.  
 Steve Baldockd  3 Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in messagei% news:3B1D72C9.98003514@bigfoot.com... I > From what you've indicated so far your addresses look okay (CIDR shouldo not beH > an issue here, UCX just looks at it as a variable length subnet mask). Just setB > your default gateway and this should take care of it.  Easy way: >  > @SYS$STARUP:UCX$CONFIG > goto "Core environment"f > then  "Routing"yL > When asked whether to configure ROUTED or GATED, take the default of "NO".F > It should then ask if you want to configure or reconfigure a default route. >  Enter YESE > When it asks for a default gateway, give it 192.168.1.129 (per yourt	 numbers). . > When it asks for a hostname, just hit enter. >gL > I'm not sure if you need to start and stop UCX for this to take effect (it haseG > been a while, and I don't have a machine available to test with righta	 now), butt! > IIRC you don't have to do this.o >wD > Oh, and make sure you remove any static routes that you previously entered. >x > HM >  >o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:32:50 +0200' From: "Kwee, Ren" <rsh.kwee@hccnet.nl>t# Subject: Re: Virtual Memory probleml) Message-ID: <9fjc6t$bug$1@news.hccnet.nl>   2 We have tried this also, but with no success  ....J We are looking now in the direction of GLOBALPAGFIL and GLOBALPAGES ......  & We are open for other suggestions ....    5 "Hamlyn Mootoo" <univms@bigfoot.com> wrote in messagei$ news:3B1D0BD3.3080630@bigfoot.com...L > Make sure to raise  the related PQL_XXX parameters in SYSGEN as well.  And IoI > would raise the working set extent in authorize to an arbitrarily large  value,K > and start from there to bring it down.  Also, remember to log out and logi backE > in before you try testing again, as the UAF is read once at initial  processo > creation.s >  > HM >w > Jan Smit wrote:i >o" > > We have the following problem: > > 6 > > We want to share memory between several processes.8 > > To achieve this, we use PPL$- and LIB$*_VM routines.F > > It works fine when the shared memory does not exceed the (approx.)	 6,900,000  > > bytes limit.< > > When we want use more shared memory, we get the message: "%LIB-F-INSVIRMEM,  > > insufficient virual memory". > >tF > > Till now, we are not successfull in increasing the above limit (of	 6,900,000e
 > > bytes)...t > >eJ > > We have followed the hints we get from "$ HELP/MESS %lib-f-insvirmem":! > > - We have done the following:/6 > > - Increased in AUTHORIZE the PGFLQUE  to 150,000 ,= > > - Increased the system paging files  to 999936 (blocks) ,e > >  > > Additional: 1 > > - Increased in AUTHORIZE the WSQUO  to 15000, 9 > > - Increased in SYSGEN the WSMAX  to 350000 (pagelets)s > >o# > > We have not done the following:aH > > - Not increased the physical memory, beceause we think that does not solveh > > the problem.D > > - Not adjusted the SYSGEN-parameter: VIRTUALPAGECNT because this	 parametera > > has become obsolete. > >l > > Our question is:K > > Which (AUTHORIZE or SYSGEN) parameter(s) must we adjust to increase thea& > > Virtualmemory-size of the process?K > > (The most obvious parameter (VIRTUALPAGECNT) has become obsolete......)e > >r > > Additonal information:- > > Hardware: COMPAQ AlphaServer DS10 466 MHze$ > > Operating system: OpenVMS v7.1-2 > > Memory: 512 Mb > > Swapfile: 71936 blocks > > Pagefile: 999936 blocksg > > 6 > > Programming language application: PASCAL (v5.6-59) >I   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:04:28 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: Virtual Memory problem,3 Message-ID: <gXaT6.1064$fi2.28037@news.cpqcorp.net>r  S In article <9fjc6t$bug$1@news.hccnet.nl>, "Kwee, Ren" <rsh.kwee@hccnet.nl> writes: 3 :We have tried this also, but with no success  ....rK :We are looking now in the direction of GLOBALPAGFIL and GLOBALPAGES ......e  L   With OpenVMS Alpha V7.0 and later, the culprit is almost always PGFLQUOTA.  N   Global pages and such are not normally triggers for insufficient VM errors, M   these parameters are normally specific to the total amount of storage that d   can be shared.  ' :We are open for other suggestions ....h  K   If I were guessing, I'd initially suspect a program of mine that had thisnM   behaviour had an allocation bug, and simply expanded to fill all available -M   process virtual address space.  (You might well be able to see this happen,RL   particularly if you have a way to see if increasing the process PGFLQUOTA J   simply delays the onset of the problem...)  You can also see these sortsJ   of problems if there is a corruption in the program, either when it asksJ   for way too much memory, or when it clobbers the VM data structures that"   underly the RTL LIB$ VM calls.    I   Shared memory access on SMP systems can have interesting requirements, DH   see Ask The Wizard topic (2681), and see topic (1661) for some of the    usual programming bugs.A  G   I'd set your existing code aside, and use a SIMPLE example that does ,G   what you want (and specifically tests what you think is going wrong) cH   -- there are a couple of C examples of shared memory available in the D   Ask The Wizard area (topic (2486) is one), I don't happen to know H   off-hand of any Pascal examples, but I am sure that some exist.  This J   simple debugging technique will help you eliminate or isolate potential C   problem sources, and will also help you (dis)prove your theories.n  F   The PPL library is not supported.  (Source code is on the Freeware.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:10:53 GMTt) From: "Mike Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu>m8 Subject: Re: Yet Another Reason Why Windoze .ne. OpenVMSB Message-ID: <1bhT6.723$1Z3.58150@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  L This would be true of VMS if DEC had known how to mass market.  This problemL is related to the fact that Windows has been very successfully mass marketedF vs. a technical issue.  If there were as many VMS systems as there areL Windows systems, you'd have a lot of inadequately trained people running theI VMS systems and many of them would be hopping from job to job, just as weu currently see with Windows.t  
 Mike Ober.  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagee6 news:wVSQ6.7343$QP6.4633240@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.... > Windows users pay extra for hacker insurance > By Erich Luening > Staff Writer, CNET News.comc > May 29, 2001, 11:50 a.m. PT  >i> > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6077282.html?tag=prntfr >r > -- > Terry C. Shannon > Consultant and Publisher > Shannon Knows Compaq" > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net& > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com >u >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:45:24 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D28C3.2B5F604E@videotron.ca>  I > >Who has the authority in Britain?  What would Parliment do if a treaty<. > >was negotiated which Parliment didn't like?  N That is the main problem with the United States. In a parliementary system, ifL a government is elected with a majority, the prime minister has not only theN mandate but also the power to represent his people and sign treaties since hisL party has a majority in the house and thus has a very good chance of passing3 the law that implements the treaty in that country.r  L However, it seems that in recent time, the United States has been without anN effective leader since the president had a government that worked against him.B So in fact, it shouldn't the the president that represents the USAU internationally, but rather the house leader since he is the one with the real power.   K The US setup is an interesting experiment in democracy, but it doesn't workpN that well when it comes to international relations and international treaties,L something which the USA forefather didn't have to think about much back then" when the constitution was written.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:59:49 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>X2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D2C23.7BE4CD2C@videotron.ca>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:cK > Now why Quebec would become the OPEC of hydrogen in this is the thing I'mn > not clear on.   L We have lots of rivers. Back in the 1970s, they started to develop the JamesL Bay project (actually not on James Bay, but inland) and there are still many- unbuilt dams on that one river they hanessed. 2 (well, they funelled 2 rivers into 1 as I recall).  Q Similarly, there is potential in Labrador to further develop the Churchill river.e  N So there is a great deal of untapped hydro electric potential left in Qubec. I So if hydrogen powered cars were to become commonplace, it is likely thateM Qubec would become an important supplier of hydrogen since with electricity, > you can split water (which we have plenty of) and generate H2.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:08:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D2E44.40E35435@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:I > Ford and GM claim to be working on hybrid SUVs and hybrid mid-size cars1/ > instead of following Toyota and Honda's lead.s  M Yep. Chrysler was working on trying to build smaller more fuel efficient carscN back in the early 80s while the japanese already had well built fuel efficient cars on the market.t  N That is the real danger in the USA economy. By delaying the inevitable as muchL as possible to please the Wall Street Casino analysts, the car manufacturersJ will be caught with their pants down when the world decides to impose real- restrictions on emissions to save the planet.n  M Note that the USA had no choice but to abide by the Montreal protocol to stop K the use of CFCs. Kyoto may have failed, but in a few years, there will be anK study that will show conclusive proof of the damage and once they can set a.K date for when Manhattan will be flooded by the oceans, the USA will have to.L scramble like hell to adapt to building non polluting cars. And during thoseL few years, the japanese and europeans will be supplying the world with thoseM cars because the USA manufacturers won't be ready. As a result, this will putpG the USA into deep financial mess because the car industry is one of thevM primary drivers of your economy (steel, workforce, fuel, gas stations, energyt' to build cars, sales outlets etc etc).    M Remember Chrysler. It will happen again unless the USA car manufacturers stopuF trying to build bigger and bigger cars and start to seriously focus on building smaller cars.  H Americans don't "NEED" SUVs and big cars, they are driven by car maker'sI advertsing to buy these monsters. The Car maker could simply switch theireN advertising to brainwash the masses into buying smaller cars. Americans do notK "NEED" cars that accelerate from 0-100 in 0.5 seconds, they are brainwashedtC into beleiving they absolutely need this, again by the advertising.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:22:36 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D3178.D4ABE6EB@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > You have obviously never attempted a rush-hour commute in Metro Chicago.D > Before they come to a flying stop, traffic typically moves well in > excess of 120km/h   D In situations of dense traffic, I doubt very much that a car's 0-100L acceleration comes into play. These acceleration figurees are only neat whenN you are alone on a road and you think that pushing the pedal to the metal will impress your girlfriend.    E > either way you will lose. Please don't try to play footsie with bigdF > trucks who want to exceed the limit, either - it's like dancing with+ > railroad trains: you will lose, big time.u  J I can out-accelerate a 18 wheel truck on my bicycle easily. I have been inM instances where on my bike, I was able to go faster than traffic on a highwayyN because I can maintain a steady pace while they are always in stop and go. YouL only need to have one big truck on the road to prevent everyone from testing6 their ability to accelerate from 0-100 in 0.5 seconds.  N Sorry, but I do not buy your need for acceleration in the city. There is a big1 difference between accereation and maximum speed.0  I > The issues are neither economic, ecological, legal nor egotistical. TheuD > issue is safety - period, perceived or otherwise not withstanding.  K When I was track racing before the bloody politicians destroyed the olympiccH velodrome, it was most interestsing at the safety point of view. BecauseM nobody had brakes on their bikes, it was actually safer because you knew thatrK the guy in front of you would not be able to slow down suddently. (ok, wheneM you do madison races, it is a different story, but you see it coming and moveg to his right).  T So, remove the few cars that are overpowered, and the highways would be a lot safer.  N For what its' worth, the few roads in Australia's Northern Territory generallyM have no speed limit. Yet, the drivers keep a reasonable speed on those roads./M (except for one guy in a sports car once who passed me at such a speed that I0L had not heard him approach at all). Why do almost all drive at a respectableM speed ? Because where it is legal, your gonads don't get a thrill of breakingR= the law. And there is nobody to impress except the bushflies.   K And there are good reasons to keep reasonable speeds too: cows and heat. IfsM you hit a cow at that speed, your car is destroyed and you are dead (unfenced L roads are common). And if you maintain a speed that is too high, your engine will overheat.  H The one stretch where drivers are more reckless is between Katherine andM Darwin where people are more impatient and will take quite a few risks. Thesea? are more "local" people than tourists or long distance drivers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:25:48 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D3238.414CBAE6@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > The last figure I heard (CNN?) for SUV ownership was on the order of 20%D > nationwide, which I believe includes small pick-ups and some vans.  L However, if you look at sales figures, you'll find that SUVs are much higherG proportion of sales. (It is like comparing installed base of PCs versuso current sales).   K The problem is that the US car makers have geared up to produce SUVs and itnN will take time for them to gear up to stop producing these monsters and returnI to producing cars. During that time the japanese and europeans will stealr
 market share.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:32:05 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D33B1.1FD786B9@videotron.ca>   Jordan Henderson wrote:rJ > The current thinking amoung climate experts is that melting of the polarN > icecaps would require an average change of 4 degrees C.  The measured changeN > in the last 100 years is 0.6 degrees C, and recent evidence states that this! > may be as much as 40% too high.   M It isn't a question of melting the polar ice cap completely. It is a questionR> of allowing sufficient ice to melt to cause changes in oceans.  N Already, some scientists who spent winter on the arctic found that the ice wasM thinner than before and their camp was near a break in the ice in mid winter,cL something that had not been seen before. Is it proof of global warming ? No. But it should raise eyebrows.o  F When you look at a bottle with no label on it, do you have proof it isN drinkable ? No. It is only after you have drunk it and waited long enough thatJ you can conclude if it was poison or not. Problem is that if it is poison,F once you'd ingested it, it is a tad too late to correct the situation.  M By the time you get proof that Manhattan will be flooded, it will be too lateaK to make simple lifestyle changes and you'll need radical changes in the wayu	 you live.e  N It is the same principle as a large earth-bound meteorite. The earlier you canN deflect its trajectory, the easier it is because you need to deflect it just aN bit. But if you wait until you can see it from your home, it is too late to do anything about it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:44:54 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>j2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D36B1.80E54330@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote: F > economic terms. The previous fad for natural-gas cars seems to be an
 > example. > K > Any organization with a big fleet of vehicles might find a bunch of thesevG > attractive.  Do you know of any such fleets being bought with privatea > money?  L This was in the news yesterday. The City of Banff Alberta has just convincedM the big tour operators to convert their foul smelling diesel buses to natural K gas. By bringing them together on this, the gas company was told that thereoM would be sufficient demand to build a gas station for the busses at Banff. So.M the government didn't pay for it, but by bringing private operators together,0M they were able to get the number of gas customers above the critical mass andY it will get done.   L As a result, the city of Banff will have cleaner air, and bus operators will save money.   F There are many ways that governments can work to get industry to adoptI sustainable practices and it doesn't mean that it must cost more. This is G where Bush makes a big mistake by stating that Kyoto would ruin the USA 	 economy. n  J Yeah, in the case of Banff, those who make diesel will lose, but those whoL make natural gas will win. If you are narrow minded only to look only at theM diesel industry, yeah, you will say that this move will hurt the economy. But N if you look at it from a global perspective, it will actually help the economyE because the bus operators will be saving money by operating more fuels9 efficient vehicles which happen to also use cleaner fuel.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:59:49 -0400f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>/2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D3A2F.272CFE21@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote:I > Pure hogwash.  _If_ a tax such as the above were to be implemented, the N > companies WOULD NOT PAY IT.  Instead, they'd just raise the products' prices > and the public would pay it.  K Yep. that is the point. But if the companies built more fuel efficient carshN that were taxed less, those would sell for far less than the fuel-hogs and the< public would have a tendency to buy the fuel efficient cars.  M In other words, such a tax would accentuate the price difference between fuelaL hogs and fuel efficient cars to a point where consumers would take notice ofH the added cost of buying a vehicle that is bigger than they really need.  J Consider also the environmental costs of the larger vehicles: they requireM wider streets, require more space on highways, more parking space etc etc. OnbG a large scale, if you fill a city with asphalt or concrete parking lots S instead of grassed/tree parks, it makes a big difference in the quality of the air.a  N Consider most australian cities that have closed off at least one major streetM in the downtown core and bult it up for pedestrians with outdoor cafs, treeswG and, of course, lots of shops. That is far more pleasant than some busyt. arterial filled with cars and buses and noise.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:53:44 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D38C2.592B859A@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote: > N > >Then give everyone his own personal air conditioned winnebago with built-in+ > >hot tub for commuting to work every day.  > N > If Winnebago could sell then, they would.  If people had enough money to buy( > them, they would.  So?  Your point is?  M There is nothing wrong with the ultra rich buying excessively large luxuriouseK cars. But there is something wrong when the economic structure of a countrysK results in the masses buying cars that are way bigger than they really need Q and where they don't worry about fuel costs because the fuel price is subsidized.t   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 15:59:35 -0500V- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)V2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <a7wF5V4zrEky@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  n In article <5T7WaDRtCcRJ@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.021386.killspam.015b (Wayne Sewell) writes: > P > Are parents in all these other countries required to have the child/baby seats4 > mentioned above?  Those can take up a lot of room.  H Some in the US actually aren't, but think they are.  In Maryland there'sE an exception if you run out of seat belts, so if you have a small carcA and a large family you can legally treat your kids to unwarrantediB dangers.   This isn't advertised as part of Maryland's auto safety	 programs.a  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation-= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group-E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingq   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 19:53:37 GMT-1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)p2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9fjdc1$1cr7$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  B In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010605092202.00acc290@ntbsod.psccos.com>,(  Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:/ |> At 09:14 AM 6/5/2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:wH |> >But just wait!!  Bush wants to revive the coal industry.  NEPA couldI |> >become king again.  Estimates are that less than 10% of the availableaK |> >coal was removed during the days of big coal companies.  Lots more down  |> >there to dig out....F |> >                         Now there's a truly frightening thought!! |> iN |> ..but of course, you're judging the pollution from coal based on technology" |> that existed 40-50 years ago.    @ No, I have never once mentioned the terrible polution that comesD from burning coal (no, homes do not have and not required to installH scrubbers).  I was thinking much more about the actual mining operation.E I grew up here in the coal fields.  And I did it before all the mineswF around here closed up (for purely economic reasons.)  I have seen whatF mining does to the miners and to the local environment.  We still haveD mountains of culm which cause sandstorms of black on hot summer daysD when the wind blows.  The remanents of mines that closed 30-40 yearsG ago.  We still have the scars of strip mining.  Of course, strip miningTC was outlawed, but they still allow open pit mining.  Maybe I'm justdC dense, but I really don't see much of a difference when viewed fromeC the outside.  And then we have the subsidence caused by the massive E voids left under the place where we live when you dig out hundreds oftD feet of ground below our cities.  Come up sometime and take the coalF mine tour in Scranton.  And when it's over, and you are convinced thatE they don't mine coal like that any more, take a trip to West Virginiaa8 or Kentucky and visit an operating appalachin coal mine.  L |>                                That's the first thing that anti-drilling,O |> anti-mining, anti-nuclear, anti-coal cabals bring up as scare tactics.  TheyhK |> don't want anybody to know that the state of technology for all of thosesL |> fields has actually changed quite dramatically since their heydays in the |> 1950's and 1960's.   G Sorry, but my friends fathers worked and died in or because of the coalrI mines.  If it hadn't died as the number one industry around here, I mighteH very well be coughing my lungs out now too.  As for the subsidence, theyG haven't pulled a nugget of coal out of here in 30 years, but the ground-5 still collapses into the abyss every couple of weeks.    |> iM |> I've seen estimates that there is enough coal in the coalfields of MontanatK |> to fuel America's energy needs for hundreds of years.  And while yes, itcM |> would be an interesting proposition to get all of that coal out, it can behN |> done and keep all the tree huggers happy while doing it.  And by the way, aJ |> LOT of that coal is under prairie land that NOBODY would miss (I'm from |> Montana, by the way)! |> n  I And what about the people who have to dig it out??  Will anyone miss themnL when their lives are shortened by a decade or two??  Do you know what "BlackL Lung" is??  Compared to coal, nuclear energy is clean as a mountain spring!!   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:05:30 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D3B84.AC59BBB0@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote:M > Also, where did you get the (false) idea that the majority of SUVs are fourfM > wheel drive and that four wheel drive is significantly more economical thanb> > two wheel drive?  You're not presenting facts, just emotion.  * I never said that 4wd is more economical.   J I have seen situations in Australia where 4wd was really necessary. I haveM seen situations where a snorkel for the air intake for the car was necessary.oK Those are "real" 4wd vehicles. The clean stuff you see in cities may have ahL transmission that can turn all 4 wheels, but in most cases, it is not a true 4wd vehicle.  D A true 4wd vehicle MUST have the ability to lock the wheels onto theK transmission (no differential) so that if you only have traction on the onetN wheel, power will continue to be applied to that wheel. Very few of any of the  urban SUVs have that capability.  K Even in Australia, there are "real" 4wd vehicles and then there are "urban" L ones. If you ever enter Kata Tjuta natl park (Ayers Rock) from the back roadK (coming from Warberton), you'll instantly see the difference between a realt 4wd and the urban yuppy ones.l   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 16:02:22 -0500o- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <KJ$24sLLaGsW@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  Y In article <3B1CF271.2141D951@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:e >  >  did you ever try French? :-)n >   H Closest I came to a French car was a Renault with a VW engine.  Looked a= lot like the VW 310 (aka Variant) which VW refused to import.   B (OBTW, my first car was a VW 311, couldn't keep up with a Standard Sedan.)n  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group-E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingf   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 16:03:02 -0500O- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <EDGfMoxBlrKM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <3B1CF199.6052C792@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:2 > ; > Tim, biting his lip, hoping one day the USA will grow up.a >   ! Why, you think we want more laws?y  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationo= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupyE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 16:05:51 -0500e- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <Yu5snbqjUf7E@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  j In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010605085055.00aae5a8@ntbsod.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:  % > But frankly, it's nobody's business 4 > other than my own what I drive and why I drive it   H First convince me you're not contributing to the price of gas, then I'llC bother to come up with all the other reasons why it is my business.d   >  But if it seemsN > germane, I drive SUV's because they give me and mine a MUCH better chance of' > surviving a crash with a rice burner.a  C No, they just look that way.  Those full size pick up trucks lookede solid, too.c  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingt   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 16:12:32 -0500e- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <JPrrApoF5ZLF@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-0506011155410001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:e > H > It will be good news if ordinary folks buy the bulk of these vehicles,- > indicating they are economically sensible.    D Ordinary folks are the ones waiting in line to buy them around here.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupnE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:14:03 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D3D84.21D28283@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote:G > That's _your_ expectation, but not that of the heads of states of the0K > countries of the world.  They all know that _any_ multicameral governmentnM > must get approval _after the fact_, not before, by the body responsible forvD > ratifying such treatys.  The only countries that work that way are > dictatorships.  N I suspect you take a look at parlementary systems. When a prime minister has aM majority government, he has reasonable expectation that his decisions will be J approved by the house. When a prime minister has a minority government, heI will have to get agreement from another party before agreeing to a treatyrN otherwise when he passes the legislation, his government might fall because ifN the opposition all vote against him, he risks losing not just the law, but the government as well.t  H Isreal and Italy are good examples of government that are often minorityN government requiring that the party with most vote make some sort of coalition$ with another party to stay in power.  K The problem with the united states is that it is possible to have a head of E state whose party is not in power in the legislative assemblies. This N essentially means that the head of the legislative assembly is effectively theB leader of that country with the president acting as a figure head.  K Note that in Canada, our offical head of state is the governor general, butrL she does not negotiate treaties etc, it is the prime minister that does thisK because he is the one with control over the legislative assembly so when heaM makes an international commitment, it is because he can do so with reasonablea: assurance that his party will vote that decision into law.  K What is the point of having a president if his decisions are meaningless to H international bodies because there is little chance that the legislativeE assemblies will ratify what the president said his country would do ?g   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 16:10:37 -0500i- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <5iNwDLqDUh3G@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <9fisl0$134b$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > H > Funny, I keep hearing about the inherent unreliability of British carsK > and yet reality is quite different.  Not only does it run quite reliably,iH > considering it is 22 years old and has 90,000 miles on it, but it runsH > better when things go wrong too.  I have driven it over 100 miles withG > a non-functioning alternator and just recently drove it 5 miles aftereF > the fanbelt broke (far enough to reach a car parts place and buy and > install a replacement.)   D Most old cars will go quite a long way without an alternator.  SparkE plugs and the coil don't really take up that much power.  Most modernnD cars won't as the electronic ignition is voltage sensitve, so is the@ fuel injection system, and the fuel injection system adds to the load.   G Both of my cars already have gone thousands of miles without a fan beltc( since neither drives the fan via a belt.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingr   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 16:15:28 -0500c- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler),2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <8hB8l1AUmZzV@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  \ In article <3B1D28C3.2B5F604E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > N > However, it seems that in recent time, the United States has been without anP > effective leader since the president had a government that worked against him.  @ Where have you been?  In recent time the whole US government wasC controlled by one party.  We just are getting a little balance backa today.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationt= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupiE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:41:03 -0700p+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>n2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?" Message-ID: <4911453@MVB.SAIC.COM>  7 You probably do not want to hear these two cents but...e   Bob Koehler wrote:  ^ > In article <3B1D28C3.2B5F604E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > >uP > > However, it seems that in recent time, the United States has been without anR > > effective leader since the president had a government that worked against him. >eB > Where have you been?  In recent time the whole US government wasE > controlled by one party.  We just are getting a little balance backf > today.  	 [Rant ON]i  ^ Balance???  The only hold that the Republicans can lay claim to, over the past 8 years, is the^ House.  When you had a minor majority and then the short term 50/50 party split, Senators like_ John McCain and Jeffords, as well as others, still voted like Democrats and have for the better Z part of the past 5 years.  I'm not sure what you mean by obtaining balance, the Republican_ controlled Senate has demonstrated zero leadership for a long time and as a Republican, I'll betF the first to say that Lott was a contributor to the problem as well...  [ The US is a constitutionally based, representative Republic (Not a Democracy) and be they a ` Democrat, Republican, Independent, Green, Blue, or Purple I do not care long as they run and get^ elected based on their beliefs, core values and principles because I can respect that but this^ wishy-washy crap of them sticking their finger in the air ever day to determine which days the` days wind (polls) are blowing is not leadership or necessarily representative of the people that placed them into office...  
 [Rant OFF]     Barryt   ------------------------------  , Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:35:08 +0200 (CEST)- From: Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106052134100.13167-100000@firewall.wes.mee.com>o   Hello,  7 there are almost more postings about this as about VMS.u6 That's certainly not the meaning of this Newsgroup, so1 could you please put an end to thie childishness?h   Thanks!e
 Best Regards,t 	Freddy-   -- -N Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv  J ==========================================================================D  Frederik Meerwaldt  ICQ: 83045387  Homepage: http://www.freddym.orgC  Bavaria/Germany              OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more I  Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOSi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:10:07 -0600o% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>r2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605150607.0506fe70@ntbsod.psccos.com>  , At 01:53 PM 6/5/2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:C >In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010605092202.00acc290@ntbsod.psccos.com>,a* >  Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:0 >|> At 09:14 AM 6/5/2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote:I >|> >But just wait!!  Bush wants to revive the coal industry.  NEPA could J >|> >become king again.  Estimates are that less than 10% of the availableL >|> >coal was removed during the days of big coal companies.  Lots more down >|> >there to dig out....uG >|> >                         Now there's a truly frightening thought!!  >|>cO >|> ..but of course, you're judging the pollution from coal based on technologyu! >|> that existed 40-50 years ago.2 >0A >No, I have never once mentioned the terrible polution that comes.E >from burning coal (no, homes do not have and not required to install I >scrubbers).  I was thinking much more about the actual mining operation.eF >I grew up here in the coal fields.  And I did it before all the minesG >around here closed up (for purely economic reasons.)  I have seen what>G >mining does to the miners and to the local environment.  We still havefE >mountains of culm which cause sandstorms of black on hot summer daysuE >when the wind blows.  The remanents of mines that closed 30-40 years H >ago.  We still have the scars of strip mining.  Of course, strip miningD >was outlawed, but they still allow open pit mining.  Maybe I'm justD >dense, but I really don't see much of a difference when viewed fromD >the outside.  And then we have the subsidence caused by the massiveF >voids left under the place where we live when you dig out hundreds ofE >feet of ground below our cities.  Come up sometime and take the coal G >mine tour in Scranton.  And when it's over, and you are convinced thatnF >they don't mine coal like that any more, take a trip to West Virginia9 >or Kentucky and visit an operating appalachin coal mine.m   Been there, done that.  M >|>                                That's the first thing that anti-drilling, B >|> anti-mining, anti-nuclear, anti-coal cabals bring up as scare  >tactics.  They L >|> don't want anybody to know that the state of technology for all of thoseM >|> fields has actually changed quite dramatically since their heydays in theh >|> 1950's and 1960's. >oH >Sorry, but my friends fathers worked and died in or because of the coalJ >mines.  If it hadn't died as the number one industry around here, I mightI >very well be coughing my lungs out now too.  As for the subsidence, theytH >haven't pulled a nugget of coal out of here in 30 years, but the ground6 >still collapses into the abyss every couple of weeks. >n >|> N >|> I've seen estimates that there is enough coal in the coalfields of MontanaL >|> to fuel America's energy needs for hundreds of years.  And while yes, itN >|> would be an interesting proposition to get all of that coal out, it can beO >|> done and keep all the tree huggers happy while doing it.  And by the way, a K >|> LOT of that coal is under prairie land that NOBODY would miss (I'm fromd >|> Montana, by the way)!r >|>3 >eJ >And what about the people who have to dig it out??  Will anyone miss themM >when their lives are shortened by a decade or two??  Do you know what "Black M >Lung" is??  Compared to coal, nuclear energy is clean as a mountain spring!!e  H Yes, I do.  But I'll still stand by what I said.  The people you mentionH died from the way mining was done 40/50/60/80/100 years ago.  The groundL collapsing is a result of the same thing.  I'll still maintain that advancesF in mining technology, in safety practices, in the whole thing, make itI immeasurably more safe than it was "way back then".  And getting coal outsG of the ground safely is a matter of incremental cost to implement saferrJ measures for the miners.  If you're willing to pay enough, you can make itI safe enough.  I don't believe in sacrificing lives to dig coal, drill for J oil, or build a nuke plant.  But that doesn't mean you CAN'T make it safe.   ------  I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+-I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |rI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |oI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:18:47 -0600,% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605151044.0506faa8@ntbsod.psccos.com>  ( At 03:05 PM 6/5/2001, Bob Koehler wrote:H >In article <5.1.0.14.2.20010605085055.00aae5a8@ntbsod.psccos.com>, Dan $ >O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes: > ' > > But frankly, it's nobody's businessi5 > > other than my own what I drive and why I drive ita >tI >First convince me you're not contributing to the price of gas, then I'llhD >bother to come up with all the other reasons why it is my business.  L I never said I wasn't.   But you are too - how do you think the food you buyI gets to the market?  Electric trucks?  Trains?  No, they burn diesel.  In H the grand scheme of things, the 50 gallons of gas I burn per month isn'tK even a barrel of gasoline.  EVERYBODY contributes to the price of gasoline,tI not just SUV drivers.  And make no mistake: that semi truck that delivers-? food to your store gets 1/2 (or worse) the mileage my SUV does.v  L But the biggest contributor to the price of gasoline is your federal govern-I ment.  Take the 95 different formulations of gasoline required by the EPADJ down by 90% to 10, and given the refining capacity we have now, that priceI would drop by at least 25%, I would estimate.  Take the federal and stateuJ taxes off of it that are supposed to go for road maintenance but seldom doH (by admission of those same governments), and the price drops by another 25-50 cents per gallon.    > >  But if it seemsG > > germane, I drive SUV's because they give me and mine a MUCH better   > chance ofp) > > surviving a crash with a rice burner.t >fD >No, they just look that way.  Those full size pick up trucks looked >solid, too.  L I'll take my Jeep Grand Cherokee up against a Honda Civic any day, and we'llM see who wins, or at least who comes out with the least injuries.   I would beRK happy to take a Ford Expedition or Excursion, or a Chevy Tahoe against thatcJ same rice burner.  There's a vast difference of a contrived test where youI run a vehicle against a brick wall (like the tests you cite) and the sameaJ test where you run a vehicle like a Tahoe against a smaller vehicle like a Honda.   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |eI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |.I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |1I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |:I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+c   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 18:03:21 -0500b+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <Ox9tS8iACxr0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <87elszqdli.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:0 > "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com> writes: > G >> Solar is clean...if you ignore the costs to make the collectors, andeA >> ignore the amount of area that has to be covered in collectors F >> (instead of plants or whatnot) to use it. In mid latitudes there isD >> as I recall a factor of 11 you need to account for night, clouds,A >> etc. in energy collection, times the inefficiencies of storingeB >> energy, times those of the collectors themselves. The land areaB >> problem might be partly solved by making road surfaces be solar5 >> collectors but the area needed is probably larger.e > H > The cost of solar cells is more a problem of scale than anything else.C > Noone manafactures SCs on an industrial scale yet. A study at UniAD > Sydney showed that large scale production of a structural SC wouldD > produce power at ~ 3c/KWHr. A large part of the cost reduction wasF > designing it as a roofing material, so it was installed AS the roof, > not over it.  > We are just finishing the process of installing solar cells on? our house in Oakland.  We initially were going to go with solard; shingles, because we needed to redo the roof anyway.  After-? discussing how much power we could generate and cell efficiencyi? with the installer, we decided to go with the traditional 4 x 8t= style cells.  You can get cells that look like standard stylev@ shingles,  ceramic tile, or many other styles, they are just not as efficient as the big panels.s  A The problem we ran into is that the majority of production of theuA 4 x 8 cells is going to Germany or Japan.  We finally found some,o? and oddly enough they are made from Intel fab rejects.  (Insertt6 snide remark regarding a good use for Pentiums, here).  < The cells are feeding a battery array and hook into the sameA circuits as the main grid feed.  If we make more than we consume,n= the meter will run backwards.  It is entirly possible that wew= will could have a zero KWh bill in the near future.  The nice ? bonus was that the State of California is subsidizing about 20%vA of the installation expense to support renewable energy.  All for  less than a mid-size car.   : The biggest hurdle so far is the City of Oakland and theirA draconian permit process.  This from a city that has Jerry Brown,w6 a.k.a former CA Gov. Moonbeam, as mayor.  Whoda thunk?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:04:26 -0600j% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>l2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605145731.00af7830@ntbsod.psccos.com>  % At 01:59 PM 6/5/2001, JF Mezei wrote:i >Brian Tillman wrote:yK > > Pure hogwash.  _If_ a tax such as the above were to be implemented, thevJ > > companies WOULD NOT PAY IT.  Instead, they'd just raise the products'  > prices  > > and the public would pay it. >eL >Yep. that is the point. But if the companies built more fuel efficient carsO >that were taxed less, those would sell for far less than the fuel-hogs and thei= >public would have a tendency to buy the fuel efficient cars.t  F How do you figure that?  Do you really believe that Detroit is somehowI putting a chemical in the water that forces people to buy large cars?  IfiI people didn't want them, they wouldn't build them, no matter how powerfulyI you think the car companies are.  Just ask Ford, GM, Chrysler et al aboutnE building big cars that nobody wanted in the late 1970's/early 1980's.e  G As for raising taxes, and hence, prices, to force people to buy smallerrM cars, that's never worked.  Remember the "luxury tax" they tried to institute J in the 1980's?  That levied what amounted to a fairly hefty price increaseF on luxury cars (those over $30k) but they still sold like gangbusters.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:05:33 -0600e% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>n2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605150442.00b157f0@ntbsod.psccos.com>  % At 01:53 PM 6/5/2001, JF Mezei wrote:  >Brian Tillman wrote:n > >iH > > >Then give everyone his own personal air conditioned winnebago with 
 > built-in- > > >hot tub for commuting to work every day.  > >uJ > > If Winnebago could sell then, they would.  If people had enough money  > to buy* > > them, they would.  So?  Your point is? >dN >There is nothing wrong with the ultra rich buying excessively large luxuriousL >cars. But there is something wrong when the economic structure of a countryL >results in the masses buying cars that are way bigger than they really needG >and where they don't worry about fuel costs because the fuel price is   >subsidized.  K Wrong terminology.  It's not "the fuel price is subsidized", it's "the fueltC price isn't taxed to death like in other countries".  Get it right.-     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |oI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:00:33 -0600n% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>h2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605125908.00af7830@ntbsod.psccos.com>  % At 12:45 PM 6/5/2001, JF Mezei wrote:?K > > >Who has the authority in Britain?  What would Parliment do if a treatys0 > > >was negotiated which Parliment didn't like? >-O >That is the main problem with the United States. In a parliementary system, if M >a government is elected with a majority, the prime minister has not only the O >mandate but also the power to represent his people and sign treaties since his M >party has a majority in the house and thus has a very good chance of passing04 >the law that implements the treaty in that country. >zM >However, it seems that in recent time, the United States has been without an3O >effective leader since the president had a government that worked against him. C >So in fact, it shouldn't the the president that represents the USAeK >internationally, but rather the house leader since he is the one with the i >real power. >eL >The US setup is an interesting experiment in democracy, but it doesn't workO >that well when it comes to international relations and international treaties,iM >something which the USA forefather didn't have to think about much back then # >when the constitution was written.R  < The US is *NOT* a democracy, it's a representative republic.  H The primary reason that congress must approve treaties is to prevent theK president from becoming a monarch (no matter how much Clinton wanted to be n one).r   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 18:16:18 -0500t+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <JOYTkBVZq5mS@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <rdeininger-0506011155410001@user-2ive6la.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:sD > In article <oh6T6.30$Io6.63049@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober"% > <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> wrote:n > L >> Toyota (Prius) has one as well.  The city of Denver, CO just bought 34 ofL >> the Toyota versions.  The Honda is a two door while the Toyota Prius is 4J >> door.  It's milage is 45 Highway 50 City and it has a 10Gal tank.  ThisB >> technology definitely needs to be scaled up to larger vehicles. > H > It will be good news if ordinary folks buy the bulk of these vehicles,J > indicating they are economically sensible.  When government entities areF > the only ones adopting something, it generally means it's a loser inF > economic terms. The previous fad for natural-gas cars seems to be an
 > example. >   E The Toyota Prius has a 3 to 6 month backlog, here.  This is Berkeley, F though, the land of facist-liberal-greens, so the demand may be higher than average.  N   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2001 18:19:57 -0500h+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)k2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <jgbffXkxGrTo@eisner.encompasserve.org>=  b In article <3b1d0fd1$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:L >>If the EPA collected a yearly levy on cars based on their emissions, or if > the K >>EPA billed car manufacturers a yearly fee for each car that they produced  > and-M >>still registered, then the car manufacturers would have a strong motivatione > toG >>avoid building boats/tabks such as SUVs and concentrate on small fuele >>efficient cars.. > I > Pure hogwash.  _If_ a tax such as the above were to be implemented, thehN > companies WOULD NOT PAY IT.  Instead, they'd just raise the products' prices > and the public would pay it.  D Hence the California Gas Guzzler Tax, Luxury Vehicle Tax, Mandatory H Emmisions Standards, etc.  The car companies aren't paying this tax, the consumers are.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:30:27 -0500e0 From: Patrick Spinler <spinler.patrick@mayo.edu>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?& Message-ID: <3B1D5D83.481940@mayo.edu>   Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > > > But I'll still stand by what I said.  The people you mentionJ > died from the way mining was done 40/50/60/80/100 years ago.  The groundN > collapsing is a result of the same thing.  I'll still maintain that advancesH > in mining technology, in safety practices, in the whole thing, make it7 > immeasurably more safe than it was "way back then".  n  C Some hard data; According to these statistics from the Occupationale  Safety and Health AdministrationE (http://www.osha.gov/oshstats/cfoi.t03.html), in 1996, Miners had theoG highest per capita work related fatality rate, followed by agriculture.k   Here's the figures I get:h  A Fatal occupational injuries and employment by industry, 1996					   ! 			Number		Employment,	Per Capitai+ 			Fatalities	(in thousands)	Fatality Rate	b   Mining      		152		567		268	   Agriculture,
 forestry, andu fishing	    		798		3,505		227	    Construction		1,039		7,464		139	   Transportation and public utils		947		7,248		130	   Manufacturing		715		20,434		34	   H So, at least as of 5 years ago, mining was the most hazerdous professionD in the USA.  Presumably, one could do a bit more digging than the 10= minutes I did and get either more detailed or more up to datea
 statistics.     " Do you have more current figures ?   -- Pat   -- s?       This message does not represent the policies or positions 1 	     of the Mayo Foundation or its subsidiaries.s3   Patrick Spinler			email:	Spinler.Patrick@Mayo.EDUu'   Mayo Foundation			phone:	507/284-9485    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:51:39 -0600l% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>t2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010605165006.0506fe70@ntbsod.psccos.com>  , At 04:30 PM 6/5/2001, Patrick Spinler wrote: >Dan O'Reilly wrote: > >h@ > > But I'll still stand by what I said.  The people you mentionL > > died from the way mining was done 40/50/60/80/100 years ago.  The groundH > > collapsing is a result of the same thing.  I'll still maintain that 
 > advancesJ > > in mining technology, in safety practices, in the whole thing, make it7 > > immeasurably more safe than it was "way back then".n >yD >Some hard data; According to these statistics from the Occupational! >Safety and Health AdministrationhF >(http://www.osha.gov/oshstats/cfoi.t03.html), in 1996, Miners had theH >highest per capita work related fatality rate, followed by agriculture. >t >Here's the figures I get: >d9 >Fatal occupational injuries and employment by industry,   >1996w >hD >                         Number          Employment,     Per CapitaG >                         Fatalities      (in thousands)  Fatality Ratee >o< >Mining                  152             567             268 >d
 >Agriculture,i >forestry, and< >fishing                 798             3,505           227 >n< >Construction            1,039           7,464           139 >o >Transportation andl< >public utils            947             7,248           130 >r; >Manufacturing           715             20,434          34t > I >So, at least as of 5 years ago, mining was the most hazerdous professionaE >in the USA.  Presumably, one could do a bit more digging than the 10 > >minutes I did and get either more detailed or more up to date >statistics.  H I don't dispute that it's dangerous.  I *AM* saying that a) it's a wholeF lot more safe than it was 40 years ago, and b) it can be made safer ifH people are willing to pay the price that entails.  But it'll never be as safe as a cashier in K-Mart.     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+rI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |yI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |-I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |uI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+:   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:14:56 -040002 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011914560001@user-2ive7nc.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B1D28C3.2B5F604E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeit% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:d  K > > >Who has the authority in Britain?  What would Parliment do if a treatyh0 > > >was negotiated which Parliment didn't like? > 3 > That is the main problem with the United States. B  H I typed a response to this message, but I'm deleting it in the interests of c.o.v tranquility.    -- y Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:19:25 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011919250001@user-2ive7nc.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B1D36B1.80E54330@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeia% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:T   > Robert Deininger wrote:iH > > economic terms. The previous fad for natural-gas cars seems to be an > > example. > > M > > Any organization with a big fleet of vehicles might find a bunch of theseeI > > attractive.  Do you know of any such fleets being bought with privatee
 > > money? > N > This was in the news yesterday. The City of Banff Alberta has just convincedO > the big tour operators to convert their foul smelling diesel buses to naturaleM > gas. By bringing them together on this, the gas company was told that thererO > would be sufficient demand to build a gas station for the busses at Banff. SooO > the government didn't pay for it, but by bringing private operators together,nO > they were able to get the number of gas customers above the critical mass and. > it will get done.  > N > As a result, the city of Banff will have cleaner air, and bus operators will
 > save money.a  G Yes, and I bet the companies did it all voluntarily, without governmentcG force.  Strange that companies that want to make profits didn't do thisc@ before the government "helped" them think of it.  (sarcasm off).    H > There are many ways that governments can work to get industry to adoptK > sustainable practices and it doesn't mean that it must cost more. This is I > where Bush makes a big mistake by stating that Kyoto would ruin the USA 
 > economy.  I No this is where Bush is right on the money.  The best role of governmentoD in commerce is to get the heck out of the way.  Kyoto would ruin theB economy, unless your idea of a good economy is similar to Lenin's.   -- - Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com:   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:24:23 -0400T2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011924230001@user-2ive7nc.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <9fjdc1$1cr7$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote:    O > |> I've seen estimates that there is enough coal in the coalfields of MontanatM > |> to fuel America's energy needs for hundreds of years.  And while yes, itiO > |> would be an interesting proposition to get all of that coal out, it can beoP > |> done and keep all the tree huggers happy while doing it.  And by the way, aL > |> LOT of that coal is under prairie land that NOBODY would miss (I'm from > |> Montana, by the way)! > |> n > K > And what about the people who have to dig it out??  Will anyone miss them N > when their lives are shortened by a decade or two??  Do you know what "BlackN > Lung" is??  Compared to coal, nuclear energy is clean as a mountain spring!!  J Open pit mines are quite a bit easier on the lungs.  There's lots of freshI air.  And today's safety standards _are_ better than in past.  Coal minesnG may not be particular worse than any large-scale earthmoving operation.s  F I won't argue about the Appalacian coal pits.  They were really nasty, unsafe places to work.  F Uranium mines aren't all that wonderful either, but at least you don'tI need anywhere as much of it as with coal.  You do have to be very careful 7 to keep the workers from breathing uranium-coated dust.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:30:54 -0400u2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0506011930550001@user-2ive7nc.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleG <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106052134100.13167-100000@firewall.wes.mee.com>, Freddya' Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> wrote:l   > Hello, > 9 > there are almost more postings about this as about VMS.g8 > That's certainly not the meaning of this Newsgroup, so3 > could you please put an end to thie childishness?i  I Every once in a while, you just have to learn to skip threads like this. tD You'll get used to it.  How about some VMS questions to distract us?  4 I keep trying to resist, but they keep provoking me.  G Actually, this is wonderful entertainment, if you're in the right mood.t   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 22:21:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>02 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B1D93C5.1B572AF7@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:gI > Yes, and I bet the companies did it all voluntarily, without government I > force.  Strange that companies that want to make profits didn't do this B > before the government "helped" them think of it.  (sarcasm off).  K Sometimes you need a grouping force that brings various parties together to M get the critical mass necessary to get things done. You alone cannot convincelI Compaq to get things changed, but if DECUS gets you together with a whole H bunch of other customers, you can then get together and act as a unified forced to get something done.o  M A single bus company would not have been able to convince the gas companyt tocE setup a LPG facility at Banff, but with the city getting all the buse'J companies together (including its own local public transit), they were big! enough to justify the investment.,      K > No this is where Bush is right on the money.  The best role of government/F > in commerce is to get the heck out of the way.  Kyoto would ruin theD > economy, unless your idea of a good economy is similar to Lenin's.  N The lack of Kyoto will ruin the economy much more. The world economy must moveN away from personal cars and hydrocarbon based economies. The sooner you start,L the easier and smoother the transition will be. If you're affraid that KyotoM will ruin the economy now, postponing the inevitable will make the transition  much more painful.  F Sorry to be cynical, but is there any chance that Kyoto would hurt theJ petroleum companies in the USA while helping other industries ? Any chanceD that the companies that would be negatively affected by Kyoto are inG republican states while those that would be helped by Kyoto would be inW democratic states ?h    J Did the migration away from CFCs ruin the USA economy ? Few people noticed= that the propellants in almost all aerosol cans were changed.r   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2001 04:15:13 GMTn# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.eduf2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fkaoh$1mv$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>e  \ In article <9fippj$d92$1@lisa.gemair.com>, jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes:, >In article <9fgj3v$3lv$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>,( > <system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote:5 >>"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:- >>>andrew harrison wrote:- >>>> Jordan Henderson wrote:8 >>>> > andrew harrison  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote: >>A >>Just to reiterate, nearly all atmospheric scientists agree that B >>global warming has occured.  IMHO those who don't are in denial. >> > F >Perhaps.  But, are they taking into account the recent evidence that 9 >global warming estimates might be exaggerated by 40% or - >more?   >-9 >	http://www.heartland.org/environment/apr01/evidence.htm- >-C >When this is taken into account, the "dramatic" rise that has been 5 >reported falls back more into the category of noise.    Yes and no it doesn't.  D >>What is less universally agreed upon is whether the global warmingF >>that has occured in the last 100 years or so is due to human causes. >> >hD >Indeed.  Like the evidence that global warming is more effected by  >solar cycles: > 4 >	http://www.globalwarming.org/sciup/sci12-27-00.htm4 >	http://www.globalwarming.org/sciup/sci8-22-99.html* >	http://www.vision.net.au/~daly/solar.htm  A Yet the temperature keeps going up even though there has been no n= constant increase in solar insolation over the last 50 years.u  L >>>> Rubbish, the developed world produces over 90% of the worlds greenhouseI >>>> gasses, with the US being by far the largest contributor. Even underaG >>>> the limitted terms agreed at Kyoto the US would still be by far intJ >>>> a way the largest producer of greenhouse gasses on a per capita basis >>>> in 20 years time. >>C >>>I've yet to see a satisfactory answer to the question of whetheriK >>>so-called "greenhouse" gasses are a cause or an effect. That is, does anbI >>>elevation in the presence of such gasses lead to a rise in atmospheric G >>>heat absorption and/or retention, or does an over-abundance of solar G >>>heating result in an acceleration of the processes which elevate thehH >>>levels of those gasses in the atmosphere, or both (a self-propagatingG >>>"loop" beyond the control or influence of any single factor, or evenrD >>>multiple factors that might debatably be influenced by industrial >>>development)? >>D >>Historically we don't know.  We do know that temperature has been > >>correlated with CO2 and other greenhouse gasses for the last >>400 thousand years or so.J >> >qF >Temperature has been much more highly correlated with solar activity: >s9 >	http://www.co2science.org/subject/s/summaries/solar.htmm >oB >>We also know that, all other things being equal, an increase in 0 >>greenhouse gasses /will/ increase temperature. >> >>< >Of course, in a complex system all other things are rarely 	 >equal.  j  ( Of course not, which is why I said that.  & >CO2 is not a very powerful influence   * per tonne in the atmosphere this is true.    >as far as greenhouse gases I >goes.  Water vapor is a much greater influence on the greenhouse effect  J >and there is evidence that increased CO2 may increase efficiency in some 4 >plants which will cause a reduction in water vapor:   Methane OTOH...aA Methane, CO2 and water all cover different parts of the spectrum.oL and we are looking at potentially having twice as much CO2 in the atmosphere) as has been there in the last 400k years.3  4 >	http://www.co2science.org/journal/2001/v4n22b1.htm4 >	http://www.co2science.org/journal/2001/v4n22b3.htm >iB >The fact that we don't have good models for what's going on wouldB >encourage a scientiest (as opposed to a politician) to caution in
 >this area.  :  D The fact that we /are/ warming up and that the effects here and mostC esp. abroad may be devastating would encourage most people to starti? taking relatively moderate steps in improving energy efficiencyAH so that we only have to make a 120 degree change in direction instead of. a 180 degree change if the evidence plays out.  3 >For example, current conservation proposals might d" >actually exacerbate any problems: > 1 >	http://www.globalwarming.org/science/nohelp.htmt >sB >Also, efforts targeted at other gasses may be far more effective. > 9 >	http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/forcings/altscenario/e  3 And therefore we should not do anything about CO2? h  I >>We also know that we are at or near record levels of CO2 and at least a # >>couple of other greenhouse gases.y >>K >>>Regardless of whether greenhouse gasses are a cause or an effect, I dareiJ >>>say that volcanism, a process well beyond the control of any life form,K >>>contributes more to the levels of such gasses on a world-wide scale than.7 >>>any local concentrations due to industrial activity.  >>A >>Human CO2 output is roughly 4% of the total natural CO2 output.uF >>Since 1958 or so the levels of CO2 levels have been going up fairly K >>consistantly over that period, even though from what I gather there have iE >>been very few (historically speaking) volcanoes during that period.m >>2 >>http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming/faq/iheard.html> >>http://faculty.quinnipiac.edu/health/biology/buckley/bi_101/ >>   biomonitoring/sld003.htmn5 >>http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/seminars/990923FO.htmld9 >>http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/meth/methane_intr.htm t/ >>http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/meth/ch4.htma >>. >>Do you have any sources for your statements? >> >>Robert Morphis >r >-Jordan Henderson >jordan@greenapple.com >m   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2001 04:25:40 GMTt# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edul2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fkbc4$1mv$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>5  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:n  N >Note that the USA had no choice but to abide by the Montreal protocol to stopL >the use of CFCs. Kyoto may have failed, but in a few years, there will be aL >study that will show conclusive proof of the damage and once they can set aL >date for when Manhattan will be flooded by the oceans, the USA will have to  E Just to reiterate my reading of the evidence global warming is a real F threat for a variety of reasons, but Manhattan being flooded is prettyL low on the list, the predictions I have seen which reference refereed papers& are generally well below 1 meter rise.  K That would cause serious damage in many places, but I don't think Manhattanm; is one of them.  (Then again I've never been to Manhattan).    Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2001 04:32:06 GMTo# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.educ2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9fkbo6$1mv$3@husk.cso.niu.edu>e  3 nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:59 >   malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) writes:u >>  K >> SUV's also encompase a wide range of vehicles, that range from the largeoM >> four wheel drives to what is basically a small car with a large cargo areae >> in the rear.  >kG >    My first "SUV" was an AWD Toyota Corolla Wagon. It easily got overu >30MPG.  >f1 >>  The small ones can get very good gas mileage.o >> s >sM >    There are also a lot of non-SUV vehicles which get bad gas mileage, suchlJ >as full-size sedans and "performance" cars. SUVs don't appear to have anyE >worse gas mileage than the comparably sized station wagons they have    []  J >> See how many small cars you can get two adults, two small children withN >> the booster seats required by law.  And then what when you add another baby> >> in a car seat, or a visiting adult that came by air or bus.  E We own a 10year old minivan with a 3.3 l 6 cyl that gets 20 miles/gal7D in mostly city driving, 24-26 mpg highway.  To match its volume in a/ 2WD SUV we have to drop to below 18mpg highway.9  ; >   And then try to tow a trailer behind that small car :-)   H Which, since we intend to go to the mountains, is the reason we may end 7 up getting an 8 cylinder engine in our next vehicle :-(r   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.311 ************************