1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 07 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 314       Contents:, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server) RE: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000 ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging 7 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? 7 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? 7 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? 7 Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS? 5 Re: Astronomy (astrology) programs for Alpha / VMS??? % Astronomy programs for Alpha / VMS??? ) Re: Astronomy programs for Alpha / VMS??? ) Re: Astronomy programs for Alpha / VMS???  Re: disabling floppy drive Re: disabling floppy drive9 Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager 3 RE: esa12000fc and ema12000 differences/experiences < Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st< Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st< Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st High MP sync fixed in VMS 7.3 ! Re: High MP sync fixed in VMS 7.3 ! Re: High MP sync fixed in VMS 7.3 2 Re: Hydro, was (OT) Current Microsoft V DOJ status2 Re: Hydro, was (OT) Current Microsoft V DOJ status RE: I demand your respect  RE: I demand your respect  RE: I demand your respect  RE: I demand your respect  Re: I demand your respect  RE: I demand your respect  Re: I demand your respect  Re: I demand your respect  RE: I demand your respect  RE: RE: Is it just me? Re: NTPdate problem  RE: NTPdate problem  Re: NTPdate problem  Re: OT - demise of ML770 Re: OT - demise of ML770J Re: OT: Open Source and the Providence and Worchester Railroad, and AlphasA problem with Decwindows after VMS721_UPDATE-V0200 on Alphastation E Re: problem with Decwindows after VMS721_UPDATE-V0200 on Alphastation ' Re: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"?  Re: RZ28-E dead? Shareware: txt2pdf 5.0* SKC Writeup on VMS Diamond and Tech Forums Re: subject _OPEN_VMS  Re: subject _OPEN_VMS  RE: subject _OPEN_VMS  Re: subject _OPEN_VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS A Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2 A Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2 A RE: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2 A Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2 A Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2 A Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2 < Re: Use of SYSMAN to keep password file in sync on 8 systems< Re: Use of SYSMAN to keep password file in sync on 8 systems< Re: Use of SYSMAN to keep password file in sync on 8 systems Re: vax/vms cd Vax/VMS SavesetsE Re: VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal Emulat P VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal Emulat	ion) - Can anyP Re: VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal Emulation) - Can P Re: VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal Emulation) - Can  Re: VMS 7.2-1 and UCX 4.2   Re: Weblogic/BEA On OpenVMS XML?  Re: Weblogic/BEA On OpenVMS XML?- Re: What is the best way to erase SCSI disks? - Re: What is the best way to erase SCSI disks? = Re: Who gets blamed for faulty software (was: A New Twist...) = Re: Who gets blamed for faulty software (was: A New Twist...) ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?  [TCPIP V5.1] some rants  Re: [TCPIP V5.1] some rants   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 04:29:45 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0706010429450001@user-2iveaje.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3B1EBBA7.B894BE17@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass  <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:     @ > BTW one reason (from what I know the only one) for the failure; > of the merger between the bourse in Frankfurt the biggest A > European stock exchange the LSE (London Stock Exchange) was the B > fact that the Germans insisted in using their superior VMS order> > book system while the LSE wanted to continue to use their OM@ > system (which may also run on VMS as OM has a strong VMS line)A > but the system isn't fully electronical AFAIK the settlement is B > done manually. As a sidenote the Swedish OM has just started theA > second unfriendly takeover attempt against the LSE in a plan to , > expand their trading system customer base.  H OM runs a number of exchanges, perhaps a dozen or so.  It certainly runsF on VMS, I think only on VMS.  At least some of the exchanges are fullyG electronic.  One of the newest is the International Securities Exchange G that opened just over a year ago.  The exchange itself is almost all on I VMS; the trading clients are officially offered on NT.  At the moment ISE E only trades in options, but it seems clear that a full-featured stock   exchange may be in their future.  I ISE takes full advantage of VMS for availability and scalability.  (Hint: H multi-site clusters.)  Though I would say their current configuration isH begging to be Galactified.  They chose their hardware well in advance of the go-live date.    www.iseoptions.com  I I didn't realize there was ANOTHER excellent order book system running on  VMS, besides OM.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2001 10:34:35 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun H Message-ID: <y4wv6owuw4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  I > But of course! And had the then-CTO of Digital negotiated a decent deal K > rather than snapping at the first squatulent offer Microsoft threw on the M > table, Digital would have received client-side Intel apps parity for Alpha.   K Does said person also have a name, Terry? You're always referring to him by M his role...surely a little research will turn up a name...save us the effort!    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:40:12 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun H Message-ID: <OF2CBAAD42.C17B368F-ON80256A64.002EFCEC@qedi.quintiles.com>  E If it weren't for the role/job title, I'd suggest Mr. Affinity but he  wasn't CTO...... Steve.   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: >>> 6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:I > But of course! And had the then-CTO of Digital negotiated a decent deal K > rather than snapping at the first squatulent offer Microsoft threw on the F > table, Digital would have received client-side Intel apps parity for Alpha.K Does said person also have a name, Terry? You're always referring to him by E his role...surely a little research will turn up a name...save us the  effort!  <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:06:01 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun 8 Message-ID: <lucuhtkngj7o5tmds3q7rp97g7tvd544od@4ax.com>  3 On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:02:54 +0100, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:   9 ete waste.  I believe that's the reason NT on Alpha died.  >>   > > >NT was trash technically but was a huge sucess commercially, = >mainly because it attracted a large number of ISV's who were = >prepared to put their SW on it. The availability of that SW  = >plus MS/Intel/Compaq's marketing dollars ensured its sucess.   D The success also hinged on the fact that NT is nowhere near as trashD at the kernel level as Win9x  If ISVs were purely porting to the APIC with Win9x as the target I doubt they would have convinced anybody. ? But the Cutler designed kernel is far more stable than the pure = Microsoft 9x kernel (is it 13 times more stable Microsoft are A claiming?) and has improved with time. Just a pity about the crap A Windows personality it has to adopt. The Cutler team had designed C their own cleaned up Win-32 API but were forced to use the inferior E variant designed by the WIn9x team according to the book "Showstopper  - The Story of Windows NT"  D Had Gates not hired Cutler et al. from Digital I really doubt they'dA have anything like the business market penetration they have now. / Except possibly in partnership with IBM on OS/2    > ? >Alpha NT was unsucessfull not because NT was trash but because ? >Digital and laterly Compaq failed to get the ISV's to port to  = >NT/Alpha and failed to conclusively demonstrate that it was  3 >worth paying a serious premium for a Alpha/NT box.  >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:27:12 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun * Message-ID: <3B1FB970.F65A7865@uk.sun.com>   Christof Brass wrote:   5 > > Actually it isn't good enough. It won't beat IBMs 4 > > Regatta when it comes out and the USIII machines0 > > from Sun will also make it look pretty poor. > : > When will you stop referring to system that will come???  + Good god the cheek, remember I am replying  * to Terrys estimates of the performance of * a yet to be announced, yet to be delivered
 Alpha server.   * Perhaps next time Rob Young or one of the + other OpenVMS choir members starts a thread - about the Marvels of Marvel you could chip in " with your requests for no futures.  , As it is I don't remember you ever pointing * out that Rob was talking about vapour ware so I will ignore your post.    Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:03:22 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> # Subject: Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server ) Message-ID: <3B1F516A.45EE784A@bbc.co.uk>    JF Mezei wrote:   N > I guess it depends on the level of "interactivity" you need. If transactionsO > are quick "ask-and-get-an-answer types, then threads may not be worth it. But K > if you're implementing a POP server for instance where you really need to N > serve multiple clients at the same time, threads are the best solution. WithP > an AST driven single thread, sending data to multiple clients at the same timeL > becomes an interesting challenge (you can't do a single QIO to send that 4( > megabyte email message to the client).  G ?? Isn't that $QIO (rather than $QIOW) is for? Queue the IO and let VMS  signal you when its completed?     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:08:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> # Subject: Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server , Message-ID: <3B1F7CD5.94402A13@videotron.ca>   Tim Llewellyn wrote:I > ?? Isn't that $QIO (rather than $QIOW) is for? Queue the IO and let VMS   > signal you when its completed?  E Yes. But if you are , for instance, serving multiple clients for POP3 N sessions, then you cannot serve one client and then serve the next. You send aN chunk to client1, a chunk to client2, chunk to client3 and then the next chunk to client1 etc etc etc.   M If you go with the single thread AST paradigm, you essentially have to device J your own pre-emptive multitasking code inside your process so that you canM ensure that one client does not hog your server process forcing other clients * to wait until one transaction is complete.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:26:46 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> # Subject: Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server ) Message-ID: <3B1F64F6.5A9F0F4E@bbc.co.uk>    JF Mezei wrote:    > Tim Llewellyn wrote:K > > ?? Isn't that $QIO (rather than $QIOW) is for? Queue the IO and let VMS " > > signal you when its completed? > G > Yes. But if you are , for instance, serving multiple clients for POP3 P > sessions, then you cannot serve one client and then serve the next. You send aP > chunk to client1, a chunk to client2, chunk to client3 and then the next chunk > to client1 etc etc etc.  > O > If you go with the single thread AST paradigm, you essentially have to device L > your own pre-emptive multitasking code inside your process so that you canO > ensure that one client does not hog your server process forcing other clients , > to wait until one transaction is complete.  L Fair enough, then the DECNet style approach SHane mentioned of having a poolK of reusable server processes seems appropriate, if performance is adequate.      --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:32:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> # Subject: Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server , Message-ID: <3B1F9069.AE9624EF@videotron.ca>   Tim Llewellyn wrote:N > Fair enough, then the DECNet style approach SHane mentioned of having a poolM > of reusable server processes seems appropriate, if performance is adequate.   N If you use a coordinating process, you have to either find a way to "transfer"D incoming calls to one of the processes in the pool so that the TCPIPK connection is established directly between the remote client and one of the G server processes, OR, your coordinator has to act as a tunnel, with the T ability to funnel data back and forth in with multiple connections at the same time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:02:18 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com # Subject: Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server D Message-ID: <OFD2815367.73D23924-ON88256A64.005D59D0@foundation.com>  K True. I'm currently using a "tunnel" and it doesn't seem to be a bottleneck K in the conditions it's running under. I have designs for a handoff approach G if that changes. I'm using TCP/IP rather than DECnet though, because my I design includes the possibility of the central server managing some slave ' processes running on non-VMS nodes too.    Shane           A JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> on 06/07/2001 07:32:10 AM   9 Please respond to JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>    To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   $ Subject:  Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server     Tim Llewellyn wrote:I > Fair enough, then the DECNet style approach SHane mentioned of having a  poolC > of reusable server processes seems appropriate, if performance is 	 adequate.   C If you use a coordinating process, you have to either find a way to 
 "transfer"D incoming calls to one of the processes in the pool so that the TCPIPK connection is established directly between the remote client and one of the G server processes, OR, your coordinator has to act as a tunnel, with the I ability to funnel data back and forth in with multiple connections at the 
 same time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:26:02 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>2 Subject: RE: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?- Message-ID: <0033000001063997000002L072*@MHS>h   =0ACray made boats?a  1 I don't think that megaflops would be a desirableo# characteristic for watercraft.  :^)a   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETT( > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 11:44 AMF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET4 > Subject: RE: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? >e >05 > nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:e >n> > >    And then try to tow a trailer behind that small car :-) >n: > Does a 36' Al hull Cray boat behind a 1220 cc car count? >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.eB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
 > Spam-To:A > uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov, $ >   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:54:04 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10008 Message-ID: <elfuhtcuati3savfdur85j9l6ni2srcv5b@4ax.com>  A On 6 JUN 2001 18:27:46 GMT, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>l wrote:  G >Since I originated this thread and we now have a successful resolutionT0 >I thought I'd report that.  I wrote previously: >MI >>                                            [CSC] told him to down load.M >> EWDRIVER_D3500BA_721-1R (assuming I wrote that done correctly).  It didn'tr >> solve the problem.t > H >The actual name is SYS$EWDRIVER_DE500BA_V72-1R.EXE and it did solve theF >problem - once we renamed it correctly.  For whatever reason - eitherH >faulty CSC instructions or our faulty hearing - the file was originallyM >named SYS$EWDRIVER.EXE.  It should have been named SYS$EWDRIVER_DE500BA.EXE.E: >The XP1000 is now running 100 Mbit FDX. (Hurrah! Hurrah!)  D Hmm, is that patch kit available on DSN or do I need to specificallyB ask the CSC? How does a software patch to VMS fit in with previousA assertions that all the auto-negotionation stuff is in the card'sf	 firmware?U   Maybe I should try this kit.    G >Btw, apparently the imbedded DE500-BA in the XP1000 is not exactly the5F >same as the add-on DE500-BA and the original VMS support wasn't quite  >right for the imbedded version. >O3 >Thanks to those - especially Hoff - who responded.M >Dave  >-------------- : >Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVI >Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myselfe   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 7 JUN 2001 17:50:27 GMTr+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>e, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp10001 Message-ID: <7JUN01.17502778@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>n  & Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:C > On 6 JUN 2001 18:27:46 GMT, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>n > wrote: >  rI > >Since I originated this thread and we now have a successful resolutionn2 > >I thought I'd report that.  I wrote previously: > >sK > >>                                            [CSC] told him to down loadsO > >> EWDRIVER_D3500BA_721-1R (assuming I wrote that done correctly).  It didn'ta > >> solve the problem.N > >EJ > >The actual name is SYS$EWDRIVER_DE500BA_V72-1R.EXE and it did solve theH > >problem - once we renamed it correctly.  For whatever reason - eitherJ > >faulty CSC instructions or our faulty hearing - the file was originallyO > >named SYS$EWDRIVER.EXE.  It should have been named SYS$EWDRIVER_DE500BA.EXE.M< > >The XP1000 is now running 100 Mbit FDX. (Hurrah! Hurrah!) >  cF > Hmm, is that patch kit available on DSN or do I need to specifically > ask the CSC?  F It's not a patch kit - we got the file from CSC.  This file deals withM run-time issues - ie, once VMS is (coming) up.  Additional work is apparently.K being done to solve problems if you try to boot over the embedded DE500-BA,DI although it's not finished yet.  It wasn't clear to me whether both fixesMJ would be rolled into a regular .PCSI patch kit or whether we'd have to ask! the CSC for the specific patches.   F >                How does a software patch to VMS fit in with previousC > assertions that all the auto-negotionation stuff is in the card's. > firmware?   I The card's firmware does indeed do auto-negotiation.  Then the VMS driver-D re-negotiates.  Interestingly, if the firmware negotiation fails, itK defaults to 100mbit FDX but if the VMS driver fails, it defaults to 10mbit.oF In our case, the suggestion is that the firmware probably successfullyE auto-negotiated to 100mbit FDX but the VMS driver failed and so choseoD 10mbit.  Presumably that was because they used different algorithms.   >  n > Maybe I should try this kit.  F AFAIK, this kit only addresses problems with the embedded cards on theH XP1000 and "other systems such as the Miata-GL (an XP900?)."  Of course,H our problem was with an embedded card so there could be other fixes thatH I wouldn't have heard about.  You can verify if SYS$EWDRIVER_DE500BA (asG opposed to SYS$EWDRIVER) is loaded using ANALYZE/SYSTEM and the commandfG SHOW EXEC SYS$EW*.  As I said in my previous message, it worked for us.e As always, YMMV ;-)u   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2001 21:59:48 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging- Message-ID: <877kyo1jcb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  - kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:g  D > In a uncharacteristic move, Compaq is giving away VMS to those SunF > hardware users that convert.  Included in the "Welcome to Stability"C > kit is a full "magic GEM" porting kit, which will allow Sparc andiE > UltraSparc binaries to be run unchanged on the full range of Compaq ' > Alpha platforms running VMS, as well.o  9 You are aware you could VEST Sun binaries to T64 are you?f   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.b@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:58:59 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging= Message-ID: <DhPT6.25006$zl5.7959858@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>a  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageh' news:877kyo1jcb.fsf@prep.synonet.com...c/ > kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:s > F > > In a uncharacteristic move, Compaq is giving away VMS to those SunH > > hardware users that convert.  Included in the "Welcome to Stability"E > > kit is a full "magic GEM" porting kit, which will allow Sparc and:G > > UltraSparc binaries to be run unchanged on the full range of Compaqo) > > Alpha platforms running VMS, as well.O >B; > You are aware you could VEST Sun binaries to T64 are you?i >e  J I should hope that all and sundry are aware of FreePort Express. Easier to/ move from SunOS to Tru64 than SunOS to Solaris.y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:21:52 +0200- From: "Tzachi Nissim" <tzachi@attunity.co.il>a@ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?0 Message-ID: <9fksig$bbb$1@news.netvision.net.il>  I Too bad you did not contact us to help you setup Attunity Connect on yourmK VMS machine. Being in R&D it is frustrating for me to see your comment, andaG I forwarded it to our documentation manager and people in our marketing-H group. Its a shame that you gave up as the product is much more powerfulL than simply an ODBC driver (which unfortunately also makes it more complex).D We are also very committed to the VMS platform - both because of ourI relationship with Compaq, but also because we as a company grew up in theo< VMS world with a rich history of previous VMS-only products.  I I hope you'll give us another shot at making a better first-impression in C the future :) We've got some really cool things in our new version,eK including XML support and support for Sun's new Java Connector Architecturem6 (JCA) for connecting to legacy applications from Java.   Regards,
 Tzachi Nissim  Attunity R&D  A "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@DELETETHIS.mac.com> wrote in message 2 news:5.1.0.14.0.20010604170743.01c0a468@exchi01...F > We have one client still using Sybase on VMS.  We dropped the Sybase supportsJ > contract a year or two ago because it was so bad and so expensive.  BTW,L > we're running 11.0.2 on VMS; if support told you the latest is 10.0.4 thatJ > may be an indication of how knowledgeable support is.  They discontinued VMSaH > development three or four years ago and never certified the product onL > anything later than OVMS 6.2, so what you are hearing is not news.  SybaseI > may well be more in the "dying and unsupported" category than VMS is at  thisJ > point since Microsoft has way undersold them and nearly obliterated them in= > the NT space.  It's a shame since it is/was a good product.l >tJ > It does make it a bit nerve-wracking to upgrade the OS (we're at 7.1) orI > even apply ECOs to the C RTL since you know that if the database breakstH > there will never be a fix.  If you can migrate to a supported databaseL > (Oracle, Rdb, Cache, MIMER, possibly Ingres) then go for it.  Or do us all a-H > favor and port the open source PostgreSQL to VMS.  Otherwise there areL > various ways of keeping your production jobs running under VMS but talkingK > to databases on other platforms.  I've been looking into odbc clients foreK > OpenVMS and the two viable ones I've seen are from www.odbcsdk.com (to NTnH > servers only) and www.easysoft.com (to a variety of server platforms). WithJ > both of these, VMS documentation and support look a bit thin but I got aK > working demo up and running in an hour or two.  I also looked at AttunitymL > Connect but after an hour or two with the voluminous documentation I stillG > didn't know what it would do for me or how.  On the other hand, sinceaB > Attunity is supported by Compaq it may be worth getting over the
 complexity	 > hurdle.. > > > "BPollard@micron.com" <bpollard@micron.com> wrote in message, news:<9fg73l$aau$1@admin-srv3.micron.com>...J > > My company still uses VMS platforms to run our mfg programs and accessL > > Sybase on Unix.  We even use Omni to access RMS files.  Sybase is endingK > > support for Open Client and Omni-Connect Jan 31, 2003.  Are we the onlys onesL > > raising a stink about continued support for VMS by sybase?  There latestL > > version is 10.0.4 and they recently stated in my tech support case " VMS isL > > a dying and unsupported version as far as Sybase is concerned".  I wouldD > > like to know if anyone else is interesting in working with us to
 convincing7 > > Sybase to continue support for VMS into the future.  > >T > > bpollard@micron.comn >g >t >o   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 07:15:32 -0500e9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)l@ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?3 Message-ID: <MJSX+qD5D9Nf@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  ` In article <9fksig$bbb$1@news.netvision.net.il>, "Tzachi Nissim" <tzachi@attunity.co.il> writes:K > Too bad you did not contact us to help you setup Attunity Connect on your@M > VMS machine. Being in R&D it is frustrating for me to see your comment, andoI > I forwarded it to our documentation manager and people in our marketing0J > group. Its a shame that you gave up as the product is much more powerfulN > than simply an ODBC driver (which unfortunately also makes it more complex).F > We are also very committed to the VMS platform - both because of ourK > relationship with Compaq, but also because we as a company grew up in thei> > VMS world with a rich history of previous VMS-only products. > K > I hope you'll give us another shot at making a better first-impression innE > the future :) We've got some really cool things in our new version,uM > including XML support and support for Sun's new Java Connector Architecturey8 > (JCA) for connecting to legacy applications from Java. > 
 > Regards, > Tzachi Nissims > Attunity R&D  D Besides the VMS software, when Compaq gets respect in this newsgroupE it is often due to the authoritative (but not official) comments from-< people like Steve Hoffman, Fred Kleinsorge and Steve Lionel.  B Certainly your own participation here may help head off subsequentC similar cases of people "giving up" on your own company's offering.e   Larry Kilgalleny   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:27:43 +0100n  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com@ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?H Message-ID: <OF77D9E8DB.A9ECB44A-ON80256A64.004400A1@qedi.quintiles.com>   Quite right Larry.  H It'll be interesting to see the last line of Tzachi's response if peopleD wake up to Compaq's commitment and that of vendors such as Attunity.H Hopefully it will become "connecting VMS applications to the legacy Java6 Connector Architecture". Now _that_ would be nice. :-)   Steve.   Larry Kilgallen wrote/quoted :K > I hope you'll give us another shot at making a better first-impression inoE > the future :) We've got some really cool things in our new version,t@ > including XML support and support for Sun's new Java Connector Architecture8 > (JCA) for connecting to legacy applications from Java. >u
 > Regards, > Tzachi Nissim  > Attunity R&D   <deliberate trim>,B Certainly your own participation here may help head off subsequentC similar cases of people "giving up" on your own company's offering.e   Larry KilgallenB   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2001 23:07:02 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@ Subject: Re: Anyone esle use Sybase client to access ASE on VMS?- Message-ID: <87pucgz5ux.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   - kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:o  B > 2 - You should migrate all your databases from Sybase as soon asE > possible.  They are not long for this world, unless they are boughtt > by someone else.  D Why do you say this? Sybase is used in some sites that are not going to let it go away.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:40:45 -03003) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br > Subject: Re: Astronomy (astrology) programs for Alpha / VMS???L Message-ID: <OF977BF962.11E6A883-ON03256A64.005B6C88@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  B I would like a astrology program to predict the OpenVMS future ...  ? Or maybe develop a Tarot instead of Solitaire for OpenVMS ! ! !s   The things are becoming bad ...e   Regardsn   FC        H pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40) em 07/06/2001 14:28:04   G Favor responder a pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel:V       01.69.57.64.40)              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv      2 Assunto: Re: Astronomy programs for Alpha / VMS???    3 In article <SfsHXBNEGwTX@eisner.encompasserve.org>,f; kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:iC > Years ago, when I worked for DEC, I found a couple neat astronomye programsG > called ASTRO and EPHEM. Of course, this was far enough back that they  were > VAX. [...]cI > I don't have the source for EPHEM, but based on it's output of 12:00:00vK > 12/31/1899 (run on my last VAX) for the current date, I suspect it too is  > not Y2K compliant.  H You can find a VMS port of Xephem 3.2 (probably the son of Ephem) at the DECW archive:  #  http://decwarch.free.fr/astro.html    PatrickL --O ===============================================================================   G pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick  MOREAU)n4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|H CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __K BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |1 | I 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  |  |__|  http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/" http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================r   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 12:08:13 -0500 9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) . Subject: Astronomy programs for Alpha / VMS???3 Message-ID: <SfsHXBNEGwTX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J Years ago, when I worked for DEC, I found a couple neat astronomy programsJ called ASTRO and EPHEM. Of course, this was far enough back that they were VAX.  L ASTRO included the source code, and I've recompiled the FORTRAN on Alpha (onJ EISNER in fact), and while it runs, it seems to produce incorrect answers,K in both it's original VAX image, and my recompiled ALPHA version. I suspect0' it's not Y2K compliant, and maybe more.i  G I don't have the source for EPHEM, but based on it's output of 12:00:00@I 12/31/1899 (run on my last VAX) for the current date, I suspect it too isc not Y2K compliant.  K Does anyone know where I might find current versions of either of these, or K the equivalent? I'm looking for something that will give me things like the(L phase of the moon, the rise and set times of the sun, moon, and planets, and( the locations of the planets in the sky.  L FYI, here's the output of ASTRO. Today is THURSDAY, not Friday. The GMT timeJ is incorrect (Chicago is -5 in the summer, -6 in the winter). It indicatesL the moon is first quarter, but if the clouds ever clear in the Chicago area,J it's currenty a full moon. I suspect the conversion error is an attempt toL display "101" in a 2 character field. And when compared to heavens-above.comI (the best web site I've seen for locating satellites, including the ISS),e! the planetary data is also wrong.i     CERESrun astror  / Type date as MM,DD,YY[,HR,MN] or <CR> for today   3  Fri   7-Jun-2001  10:51, The 158th day of the yeari>  Greenwich Sidereal Time =  7:55,  Local Sidereal time =  2:01  Julian Date = 2452061.25 * Sunrise at  6:16 Sunset at 21:26  (-85.72):   Sun is 26 Mins, 39 Secs fast, is 92956024. miles distant" Moonrise at 14:55 Moonset at  2:29G   Moon is 10.1 Days old,  77.15% illuminated, is  230428. Miles distant-6 New  Moon: May-30   3:22       1st  Qtr: Jun-06   7:596 Full Moon: Jun-14  12:11       3rd  Qtr: Jun-21  21:01$ Next minimum of Algol: Jun-**   1:00) %FOR-E-OUTCONERR, output conversion errort   unit -2  file SYS$OUTPUT:.;7   user PC 00000000/ %TRACE-E-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followstP   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PC      >                                             0 FFFFFFFF8045F544 FFFFFFFF8045F544>  DEC$FORRTL                                 0 0000000000025890 000000007C3AF890>  DEC$FORRTL                                 0 000000000007F750 000000007C409750>  ASTRO  ASTRO$MAIN  ASTRO$MAIN            459 0000000000001C10 0000000000031C10>                                             0 FFFFFFFF94C4B454 FFFFFFFF94C4B454  E           RA    DEC   Rise    Set  Elong  Dist  Size  Phase MagnitudeiA Sun      4.58  22.00  6:16  21:26    -    1.00 32.53   -   -26.7 aA Moon    12.95  -0.52 14:55   2:29 122.8   0.96 32.2   0.77 -12.73 @ Mercury  5.86  23.51  6:16  21:19  17.7   0.65 10.44  0.14 -2.92@ Venus    1.53   8.72  2:57  15:59  45.9   0.64 26.37  0.45 -5.39@ Earth    0.00   0.00  0:00   0:00   0.0   0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00@ Mars    17.80 -23.44 21:15   6:12 163.1   0.49 19.21  0.99 -0.70@ Jupiter  5.27  23.05  5:42  20:41   9.6   6.09 32.29  1.00 -0.74@ Saturn   4.20  21.10  4:47  19:28   5.5  10.09 16.41  1.00  1.91@ Uranus  21.87 -13.63  0:37  10:57 104.8  19.70  3.34  1.00  6.82@ Neptune 20.68 -18.22 23:44   9:27 122.6  29.61  2.10  1.00  8.65@ Pluto   16.47 -21.75 19:47   5:00 178.4  29.28  0.28  1.00 14.99   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 18:28:04 +0100wK From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)r2 Subject: Re: Astronomy programs for Alpha / VMS???! Message-ID: <CXbZAxl42gRR@gaelic>S  4 In article <SfsHXBNEGwTX@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ; kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:SL > Years ago, when I worked for DEC, I found a couple neat astronomy programsL > called ASTRO and EPHEM. Of course, this was far enough back that they were > VAX. [...] I > I don't have the source for EPHEM, but based on it's output of 12:00:00tK > 12/31/1899 (run on my last VAX) for the current date, I suspect it too iss > not Y2K compliant.  M You can find a VMS port of Xephem 3.2 (probably the son of Ephem) at the DECW  archive:  #  http://decwarch.free.fr/astro.html    Patricku --O ===============================================================================DO pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)n4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:54:15 GMTK2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)2 Subject: Re: Astronomy programs for Alpha / VMS???3 Message-ID: <bdPT6.1166$fi2.29776@news.cpqcorp.net>"  o In article <SfsHXBNEGwTX@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:n  L :Does anyone know where I might find current versions of either of these, or :the equivalent?    A   The XEPHEM28 tool is on OpenVMS Freeware V4.0.  (If someone has A   an update to that tool, I'll toss it onto the next Freeware...)   B   I've also just located a Freeware Postscript file that generatesB   monthly calendars, with ephemeral data included.  I'll drop thatC   onto the next Freeware, and will make it available via the Compaq,*   website if there is sufficient interest.  M :FYI, here's the output of ASTRO. Today is THURSDAY, not Friday. The GMT timey@ :is incorrect (Chicago is -5 in the summer, -6 in the winter)...  E   You might have the system time and/or TDF set incorrectly -- please5C   see the OpenVMS FAQ -- or (more likely) the package has a Y2K bugoA   of some sort, or there is something odd with your local OpenVMSc    configuration.  (Missing ECO?)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:54:15 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl># Subject: Re: disabling floppy driveeJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106040929310.19388-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  $ On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Herb Wong wrote:  J >+I have a ALPHA server 1000. O believe there is a problem with the floppyL >+drive controller . When I run the console 'TEST" command, it get errors onK >+the drive. I have tried replacing the drive and cable, there is still thenN >+problem. I believe there is a floppy drive controller problem. When I try yoF >+install VMS 6.x thry VMS 7.x, I get a bugcheck dump when the install	   ^^^^^^^aC >+procedure trys to poll the floppy drive. The error message is I/OmG >+inconsistant database. However if I install TRUX64 or LINUX I have noiM >+problems. My question is: Is there anyway to disable the floppy so that VMS   >+does not try to check for it??  B  Can not help with resolution like "hardware disabling", althought may be possible.E  Installation may be hard - with "regular system" (already installed)a? you can switch out the AUTOCONFIGURE ALL phase and force manual " SYSGEN IO AUTOCONFIGURE/EXCLUDE=VD8  Check the contens of SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM, here you see the line to uncomment :)  ;  If you will check if that works, then best may be a CD-ROMN9 with modified SYCONFIG and a save-set of system disk withT	 the same.>  You CAN fiddle with:s >>> B -fl 0,1 <disk>; ..and restore backup (from "corrected" system disk save-setb6  on tape) to your system disk. Of course you must have>  other system to create it... but can restore the installation2  CD-ROM for correction (but must have 2 disks !!).  <  I am confused with the "corrupt sys$config.dat" resolution:> will be DVA0: checked even if exluded in *supported* manner ??> (as you know I do not have corrupted floppy controller on hand  to check ;)!)  Any comments welcome.   >+Thanks    Regards - Gotfryd   -- bE ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME'. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:24:20 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t# Subject: Re: disabling floppy driveb3 Message-ID: <sUNT6.1158$fi2.29821@news.cpqcorp.net>d  3 > CD-ROM for correction (but must have 2 disks !!).Q >o= > I am confused with the "corrupt sys$config.dat" resolution:u? >will be DVA0: checked even if exluded in *supported* manner ?? ? >(as you know I do not have corrupted floppy controller on handn > to check ;)!)o    ; Corrupt was a euphamism for modify so the floppy wont work.n  9 OK, here goes.  First on some other system, init a floppy   " $cre/dir dva0:[000000.sys0.sysexe]  ditto for .sysupd and .sys$ldrt( $cre/dir dva0:[000000.vms$common.sysexe] ditto for .sysupd and .sys$ldrJ $set file/enter dva0:[000000.sys]syscommon.dir dva0:[000000]vms$common.dir  K Now, create a file called CONFIG.DAT.  In this file, put the record for thecK floppy from sys$config.dat -- but change the driver name to something sillye like SYS$NOSUCHDEVICE   1 Copy this file to dva0:[000000.vms$common.sysexe]m  K Now, boot the CD, but give it 0,80000 as the boot flags, AND add a ", DVA0" > to the end of the boot command (i.e. B -fl 0,80000 dqa0, dva0)  K It will tell you that you are doing a 3rd party boot.  The secondary device  is DVA0 when it asks.n  H This will cause the record in sys$config.dat on the CD to be overridden.) And the floppy driver will not be loaded.t  J Once you complete the VMS installation, boot the new disk interactive, and at SYSBOOT tell  SET NOAUTO 1  J Now when you boot the device won't be configured (you could also have doneL the 2nd boot like the CD boot to stop it).  Edit sys$config.dat and make theE same change you did to config.dat - and the floppy will then never be L loaded -- OR you can simple tell SYSMAN to have an exclude list with DVA0 in it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:41:59 GMT ( From: "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com>B Subject: Re: Employment opportunities as a OpenVMS Systems Manager7 Message-ID: <HwLT6.90205$we.15099389@typhoon.kc.rr.com><  J I have not been successful in finding many VMS System Administration opensI on the web and most of them appear to be duplications.  I am going to trynK Resume Broadcaster now to sent my resume to employers and recruiters.  Doesa4 anyone have any experience using Resume Broadcaster?   --     Thanks,s  
 Richard Bjersu 3284 Rocker Drive  Apartment 4n Cincinnati, Ohio 45239-4149t Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com 513-245-9604 513-315-3547      3 "Rich Bjers" <RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com> wrote in messagen0 news:3uWR6.58642$we.9695615@typhoon.kc.rr.com...I > Sorry I know that I should not post this to the comp.os.vms news group.u But I > I am looking for employment opportunities as an OpenVMS Systems Managern and I > I can not find any jobs listed for OpenVMS System Manager on any of then jobnK > websites.  Does anyone know of any jobs in the Cincinnati, Ohio area or a , > website that has some OpenVMS jobs listed. > -- >  >a	 > Thanks,c >N > Richard Bjersy > Email: RBjers@Cinci.RR.Com >  >n >m >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:09:56 -0400o> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>< Subject: RE: esa12000fc and ema12000 differences/experiencesK Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DC0F5@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>   ! My comments and opinions in-line.g   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Lyndon Bartels [mailto:lbartels@pressenter.com] ( > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 8:02 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt: > Subject: esa12000fc and ema12000 differences/experiences > D > I'm looking at the differences between the ESA based storage works4 > hardware and the EMA based storage works hardware. > : > In particular, I'm investigating the esa12000fc and the  > ema12000. (URLSl	 > below.)e > C > http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/ma8kema12k/index.htmlu >  > andh > C > http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/esa12000fc/index.htmlo >  > H > Has anybody had experience with either of this storage solutions? WhatE > can you tell me about reliability? Flexibility? Expandability? ETC.n  G Reliability has been a bit better with 1" universal drive format in ourAF hands.  But it is tough to tell, since the ESA is older than EMA.  If F memory serves me right, we had a few more infantile drive failures on C ESA drives of the higher capacity.  It could have been a temporary lC manufacturing problem, and/or poor system integration of the parts   on our part.  G Flexibility is the same in moving drives within them.  However, if you <F have Compaq Proliants or other Compaq PC stuff, you may find that you D can flex storage between your EMA and them, or so I was told.  And IH am certainly lead to believe so, since the NT System Engineer at my shopB keeps eyeing my fibre channel EMA 18 gig, 15K RPM drives. <grin>  D (HSG80 is fast, and with 15K RPM drives the rotational latency is...8 well, quite a bit less; making for a lot of I/Oability.)  F Expandability is greater with 1" universal drive format since you can F get more drives to a cabinet.  That is, a manageable cabinet, and not E some hulking EMC Symmetrix that may have to be craned into and out of H your computing facility. (I kid you not, this was just done at my firm.)E Also, you will probably be able to get higher capacity drives in the ,D EMA, since the drives are made of a lot more metal and as a result, H heat sinked and shielded better.  (I think 72 gig, 10K RPM is available D for EMA now? I have a mix of 9 and 18 gig of 15K RPM, and 36 gig of C 10K RPM.  Go with the 15K RPM drives, if you can meet your storage  E requirement in that density.  You will have more and faster spindles.r% You will not be sorry in my opinion.)a  H Managability is a tiny bit less with the EMA solution in one area.  The H newer EMA cabinets to not have an LED warning lights on the outside for F easy viewing.  Whereas, the ESA cabinets do, which allows one a quick B visual if everything is ok.  This should not be a big point.  One C presumeably should monitor with HSZTERM, SWCC, or SANworks Command  H Scripter, and pageout/email out problems.  I use HSZTERM, a little DCL, H and RamPage software, and it has been rock solid monitoring.  This setupG has caught every failed disk, and any change in storage configuration. l? [ Got watch that NT guy doesn't grab my spareset disks <grin> ]   H > I'm toying with getting the newer EMA solution, but I'm a bit skiddishG > about jumping into relatively new hardware, when the ESA and the good 9 > ol' Storageworks SBBs have run so well, for so long....   J I was in the same situation you are in, but having the EMA now since aboutG September 2000, I would not hestiate/blink to go to the EMA solution.  =G If you can afford it, get as many HSG80's as you can, to make them not rI only dual redundant but also towards a high performance setup.  You will U" be very very pleased that you did.   >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Lyndon >  >  >  > --  > > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with 
 > those of my  > employer.| >  > > > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse  > is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt. >    :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadway= Albany, NY  12204  USA- 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com0  * "I post personal opinion only, and all the* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my* views in no way represent my employer(s)."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:40:29 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>sE Subject: Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ sts( Message-ID: <9foaku$8dt$1@pyrite.mv.net>  F A study by the National Academy of Sciences (commissioned by the WhiteG House) was released (I think) just today.  It stated unequivocally thatAE global warming was real and that human activity was a major causative'G factor.  Not that this is likely to convince those who still have their/. heads stuck firmly in the sand (or elsewhere).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:04:20 +0100n- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>eE Subject: Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st ) Message-ID: <3B1F89E4.8AB70366@bbc.co.uk>s   Bill Todd wrote:  H > A study by the National Academy of Sciences (commissioned by the WhiteI > House) was released (I think) just today.  It stated unequivocally that G > global warming was real and that human activity was a major causativeuI > factor.  Not that this is likely to convince those who still have theiru0 > heads stuck firmly in the sand (or elsewhere). >   ! Some people like being ostriches.eG Of course, you could blame it all on the water floridation programme...f+ Then again, us Brits have the lead pipes...    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukd  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of0 MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:45:20 -0300.) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brtE Subject: Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st L Message-ID: <OF1E63F8D9.8AAA63A1-ON03256A64.005BADE3@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  K People here will say : the Global warming is generated by Sun's E-10000 !!!0 (...)EI But imagine ... one Alphaserver 4100 5/600 can do the job of  5 proliantsr 8500....G The company will install Windows Terminal Server for the SAP project in D these machines or similar .... Each OpenVMS server  has online aboutD 250 users. Each server here can work with 50-60 normal users (Notes,	 EmulationR and IExplorer) ....   J I dont imagine how many users per server we will have when we begin to use  the SAP GUI....       Regards7   FC        8 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> em 07/06/2001 13:40:29  3 Favor responder a "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4      E Assunto: Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st     F A study by the National Academy of Sciences (commissioned by the WhiteG House) was released (I think) just today.  It stated unequivocally that7E global warming was real and that human activity was a major causativeeG factor.  Not that this is likely to convince those who still have their0. heads stuck firmly in the sand (or elsewhere).   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:09:27 +0800" From: "Kenneth" <best@hotmail.com>& Subject: High MP sync fixed in VMS 7.30 Message-ID: <9fo1gj$o111@imsp212.netvigator.com>  J I learn from the release note in VMS 7.3 saying there introduce a new lockL manager which would fix the high CPU utilization of the MP sync. Does anyone1 out there has use it and what is the performance?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:45:19 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> * Subject: Re: High MP sync fixed in VMS 7.38 Message-ID: <4n4vht0lan7peapl95lqt5o8rofjhgt5di@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:09:27 +0800, "Kenneth" <best@hotmail.com> wrote:  K >I learn from the release note in VMS 7.3 saying there introduce a new lockDM >manager which would fix the high CPU utilization of the MP sync. Does anyones2 >out there has use it and what is the performance?    A This was covered in the VMS technical update sessions in London afE couple of weeks ago. Check out http://www.compaq.co.uk/campaigns/vms/u  ; and specifically http://www.compaq.co.uk/campaigns/vms/Lockr Manager.ppt.   Alan -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 16:27:09 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: High MP sync fixed in VMS 7.33 Message-ID: <xXNT6.1159$fi2.29825@news.cpqcorp.net>   U In article <9fo1gj$o111@imsp212.netvigator.com>, "Kenneth" <best@hotmail.com> writes:AK :I learn from the release note in VMS 7.3 saying there introduce a new lock5M :manager which would fix the high CPU utilization of the MP sync. Does anyone 2 :out there has use it and what is the performance?  F   There can be no answer to this question, as the results of using theE   newly-available alternate lock manager configuration are extremely =F   dependant on the application and on the system environment.  In someB   cases and configurations, it will help.  In others, it will not.  E   OpenVMS V7.3 has numerous enhancements to lock manager and to SCS, ?F   and one of these enhancements is the ability to use the traditional G   lock management configuration or a configuration for SMP systems thataH   is effectively "fast path" for the lock manager.  Whether or not theseK   enhancements will help, or if your environment should use the traditionaloE   or the dedicated (lock manager 180) configuration can only be known'8   through some (trivial) experimentation on your system.  I   Further, I seriously doubt anyone would commit to saying that the lock  D   manager change (or any other particular changes) would alter your H   particular situation in any positive or negative fashion -- well, not    without far more detail...  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 06:28:04 GMT-- From: Joe Heimann <heimann@nog.ecs.umass.edu>-; Subject: Re: Hydro, was (OT) Current Microsoft V DOJ statuse, Message-ID: <9fn6tk$nnb$6@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  ! John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:o' > On 6 Jun 2001, Larry Kilgallen wrote:f  L >> Twenty years ago there was a pump storage plant in western Massachusetts,% >> but I believe it is now shut down.0  G > It was still operating a couple of years ago.  It is on the DeerfielddF > River, very near the former Rowe reactor, now dismantled.  (Rowe wasK > the 1st commercial nuke in the US, and the first one to be decommissioned0# > and dismantled due to age, IIRC.)P  H Actually there are two pumped storage plants in western Mass., the otherG larger one is at Northfield and draws water from the Connecticut River.vH Both are still in operation.  Northfield is 1,000 MW, and the Bear Swamp! plant on the Deerfield is 600 MW.i  ? > Keeping the water flow on the Deerfield under control is veryxA > important because white-water rafting is now one of the biggestrA > businesses in the area!  The pumped storage plant uses a dam onaB > the river as the low reservoir, and a pond, possibly artificial,> > high on a ridge, as the high reservoir.  When too much water> > comes down from the top, they need to release water from the@ > dam, but they can't do it when people are rafting on the river@ > below (a big surge could kill someone).  However, they have to> > maintain at least a minimal flow on the river during raftingC > times (daytime during the summer), even when they would rather beY? > storing water at the dam to pump uphill that night.  This all > > depends on the recent weather and the forecast, so there are> > lots of scheduling difficulties. I wonder if they use VMS???  B Well, actually the pumped storage is not the one that is under theB tightest control.  Its lower storage pond is the backup pond for aF small hydro power plant that releases directly into the Deerfield.  SoG the water level behind the dam is allowed to vary quite a bit, but they.G are under strict requirements for water flow out of the dam through its  turbine and into the river.    Joe Heimannm   heimann@ecs.umass.edud   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:41:46 +0100t  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com; Subject: Re: Hydro, was (OT) Current Microsoft V DOJ status=H Message-ID: <OFBC128AF6.5E87DD24-ON80256A64.00351977@qedi.quintiles.com>  # True, I hadn't considered that one.SB Depends on the tradeoff of how long and what energy is required toF initially spin up the generators versus the bearing life issues etc byF leaving them spinning but not generating electricity and therefore not
 making money.r Steve.   JF Mezei wrote:c >>>t! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:v > G > I would imagine that there's some sort of clutch assembly between theeJ > turbine and the generator so that the water can still be allowed to flow) > even if the generators aren't required.c  I Simple: just don't electrify the magnets in the generator, no electricity  willF be generated ! But you still need to control the speed of the turnine. <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:37:53 +0100 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>" Subject: RE: I demand your respectN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEF9B@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  H Perhaps what this guy's really trying to say is that he's just installedF DECnet/OSI and is now having some difficulty with network commication.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)A   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 07:41:58 -0300,) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn" Subject: RE: I demand your respectL Message-ID: <OF1B29F8DC.6ED724D3-ON03256A64.003AB5EB@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  E How many sysadmins in the world installed DECNET/OSI sucessfully ????    1,2, or 3 ?l   Regards    FC        I John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> em 07/06/2001 07:37:53h  D Favor responder a John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       " Assunto: RE: I demand your respect    H Perhaps what this guy's really trying to say is that he's just installedF DECnet/OSI and is now having some difficulty with network commication.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)9   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:46:09 +0100S  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com" Subject: RE: I demand your respectH Message-ID: <OFB73058D7.274854DC-ON80256A64.003B0B32@qedi.quintiles.com>  J If you include DECnet-Plus at either VMS v7.1, 7.2 or 7.3 I know of two inI the south of England.  I'm one and the other is a colleague who lives andr works in Bristol.i   Fabio asked: >>>mE How many sysadmins in the world installed DECNET/OSI sucessfully ????" 1,2, or 3 ?i <<<o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:53:20 +0100o8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>" Subject: RE: I demand your respectN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEF9C@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  G > How many sysadmins in the world installed DECNET/OSI sucessfully ????t   >1,2, or 3 ?  K The answer is not 1,2,3 or even 42. It's 0. If a successful installation ispD one which works, at least for basic things, DECnet/OSI cannot yet be@ installed successfully. For example, the DECnet/IP feature hangsD consistently on network connections which have packet loss making it& impossible to transfer large datasets.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:23:33 +0100J- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>o" Subject: Re: I demand your respect) Message-ID: <3B1F6435.596860BC@bbc.co.uk>n  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:b  L > If you include DECnet-Plus at either VMS v7.1, 7.2 or 7.3 I know of two inK > the south of England.  I'm one and the other is a colleague who lives and  > works in Bristol.p >w > Fabio asked: > >>>sG > How many sysadmins in the world installed DECNET/OSI sucessfully ????o
 > 1,2, or 3 ?a > <<</  N yup, HEPNet UK did upgrade early 90's from Phase IV for a real reason, lack of   Phase IV node addresses.  K If you don't have Phase IV address overload, and don't need DECNET over IP,t and J don't need to be using a supported rather than desupported product, then I guesso Phase IV will do fine.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukr  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.s   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 14:48:50 GMTr1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) " Subject: RE: I demand your respect+ Message-ID: <9fo48i$kqo$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>r  - In article <0033000000913783000002L032*@MHS>,g-  WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes: 4 |> I suspect it's ROT13 (text rotated by 13 letters)   Nope, not ROT-13.e   bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:18:16 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>i" Subject: Re: I demand your respect" Message-ID: <3b1f9b57@news.si.com>  2 >I suspect it's ROT13 (text rotated by 13 letters)  2 It may be ROTxx, buy "xx" is not "13".  I checked. -- RA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comRA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comn= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventv< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:34:42 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>W" Subject: Re: I demand your respect8 Message-ID: <tl3vhtsidri08tvn92jqtde13s00dmvrf3@4ax.com>  1 On Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:23:33 +0100, Tim Llewellynt  <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:     >> <<< >iO >yup, HEPNet UK did upgrade early 90's from Phase IV for a real reason, lack of  >t >Phase IV node addresses.s >dL >If you don't have Phase IV address overload, and don't need DECNET over IP, >andK >don't need to be using a supported rather than desupported product, then I  >guess  F Just one minor clarification.: Phase IV is still supported if you takeD out the appropriate prior version support contract. Bugs continue toE be fixed and the product continues to be updated for each new releasen of VMS.   E I did upgrade several systems to DECNET VAX Extensions in 1991/92 and C then to the full DECNET/OSI product but I still don't put it on anyaB machine that doesn't really need it. Should we ever lose DECNET IV@ area routing from our WAN I'd have to think again but there's no suggestion of that as yet,.    >Phase IV will do fine.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:17:02 +0100 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>" Subject: RE: I demand your respectN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEF9F@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  6 > |> I suspect it's ROT13 (text rotated by 13 letters)   > Nope, not ROT-13.i   Settle for ROT ?   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:55:50 -0500e+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>  Subject: RE: RE: Is it just me?jL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F01@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  K Well, I work in an "office casual" environment, but wouldn't be caught deadcH in a golf shirt.  Button-up denim might work ok.  Maybe they could offer both?e   Regards,   Chrisb  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developert Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");t '   m   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: WILLIAM WEBB [mailto:WWEBB1@email.usps.gov]h   > No, it's not just you.  = > I've suggested OpenVMS golf shirts for the "office casual" G > environment.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:38:47 +0300/ From: "Oleksii Krykun" <krikun@academy.kiev.ua>e Subject: Re: NTPdate problemQ Message-ID: <1037270357C4D411A1C900A0C9D4BFCB2877C7@hqnts40div01.academy.kiev.ua>u  , I understand. But in NTPDATE README. I read:   System Requirementsa  J      NTPdate has been compiled with VAXC and successfully tested under VMS" 5.x, VMS 6.1, UCX 2.x and UCX 3.1.  6 So this program MUST work under VMS 5.5-2 and UCX 3.2.L I wouldn't like to upgrade my system to VMS 7.x and higher version of TCP/IP/ due to low resources. I have 16 MB of RAM only.p  @ "John E. Malmberg" <malmberg@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:XORIWo1NENec@eisner.encompasserve.org...,? > In article <ee115e5d.0106060546.38ebd96e@posting.google.com>,./ > okrg@my-deja.company (Oleksii Krykun) writes: J > > Trying to use NTPdate on VAX4000-200 under VMS5.5-2H4. Unfortunately I< > > have UCX3.2 installed. This release hasn't NTP built-in. > >eF > > NTPdate works fine excluding daylight savings. I modified config.hH > > according to my timezone settings. But NTPdate sets up standard time  > > instead of daylight savings. > >r > > Where is a problem?a >n@ > I would start with looking at topic TIME4, in the OpenVMS FAQ. >hF > You basically have to be at OpenVMS 7.0 or higher to have C programs4 > return anything other than the current local time. >t@ > An upgrade to a current supported version of OpenVMS and TCPIP > would be encouraged. >eA > For timezone support on ancient versions of OpenVMS you need to B > supply your own conversion routines, or use the POSIX subsystem. >v@ > In addition to the logical names in the FAQ, some programs andG > libary functions will look up the timezone information by using thesee4 > logical names, presented highest precedence first. >  > SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE4 > UCX$TZ > TZ
 > POSIX_TZ > POSIX$DEFAULT_TZ >CL > If you are maintaining a program that does it's own timezone calculations,D > I would recommend having it use the same logical names in the same
 > precedence.v >lE > If you are changing the timezone of a system, the settings of thesea logical  > names may need to be updated.t >o > -Johno > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:33:43 +0200e5 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de>@ Subject: RE: NTPdate problem. Message-ID: <E157x6l-0003YA-00@gwdu42.gwdg.de>  , Oleksii Krykun <okrg@MY-DEJA.COM> writes ...  H > Trying to use NTPdate on VAX4000-200 under VMS5.5-2H4. Unfortunately I: > have UCX3.2 installed. This release hasn't NTP built-in. > D > NTPdate works fine excluding daylight savings. I modified config.hF > according to my timezone settings. But NTPdate sets up standard time > instead of daylight savings. >  > Where is a problem?7  , Did you re-compile after changing CONFIG.H?   * Anyway, what I once got from ftp.ccsn.edu 5 and identically from louie.udel.edu does work for me.oJ (I have a slightly enhanced version for download at ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/).  M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.dehM GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended!aM http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>q   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 09:45:04 -0500m3 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)- Subject: Re: NTPdate problem3 Message-ID: <ZZGa$35cIlC+@eisner.encompasserve.org>@  @ In article <1037270357C4D411A1C900A0C9D4BFCB2877C7@hqnts40div01. academy.kiev.ua>,g1 "Oleksii Krykun" <krikun#academy.kiev.ua> writes:n. > I understand. But in NTPDATE README. I read: >n > System Requirements  >tB >      NTPdate has been compiled with VAXC and successfully tested >      under VMS >g$ > 5.x, VMS 6.1, UCX 2.x and UCX 3.1. >o8 > So this program MUST work under VMS 5.5-2 and UCX 3.2.  E I have no experience with the product, and no idea of what tests were C done.  I personally have avoided all contact with VAX C since DEC Cn (now COMPAQ C) was released.  A If the program is supporting DST on OpenVMS 5.5-2, it must either @ be using it's own internal routines, or have been running in the POSIX subsystem.  @ Finding out why it is not working for you would probably involveB examining the source for the application, and possibly a debugging@ session.  From my experience with open source programs that haveA OpenVMS variants, quite often something critical, but not obvioust% has been put in the build procedures.   E One case that got me was a product with a DESCRIP.MMS file that builtnE a program with no errors that appeared to mostly function.  I did notpG realize that because a command procedure that customized the CC command F and other DCL commands was not run, many parts of the program were not compiled correctly.t  E (And after that command procedure was run, nothing else would compilee6  correctly until all of the cruft it did got removed.)  D > I wouldn't like to upgrade my system to VMS 7.x and higher version; > of TCP/IP due to low resources. I have 16 MB of RAM only.p  A Running DECNET-PLUS (Also known as Phase V, or OSI) can noticably-@ increase the CPU and memory load on your system.  16 MB is a bit
 low for them.d  A If you have graphics hardware on your system, moving from Classic1B DECWindows to DECWindows Motif will also incur an increased memory load on your system.  F Of the systems that I have upgraded from OpenVMS 5.5-2 to OpenVMS 7.2,? and the associated UCX or Compaq TCPIP, I have not observed anyrG additional CPU or MEMORY usage resulting from it, just the two productst mentioned above.    H From the OpenVMS 7.3 S.P.D., there is a minimum requirement of 14 MB forH it.  So to get fully current, you may need more memory.  Then again, you may not.  M OpenVMS VAX is not as sensitive to low memory conditions as OpenVMS ALPHA is.f  C And both will tolerate more abuse in this area than other operating  systems.   -Johnt Personal Opinion Onlys wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:57:41 +0100R  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com! Subject: Re: OT - demise of ML770 H Message-ID: <OFD9196E1A.AA32F3E4-ON80256A64.00369368@qedi.quintiles.com>  1 With only circa 350 systems sold, I think so.....    Ken Randell wrote: >>> I Some 350+ of the boxes have been sold so far.  I also saw where Unisys isl9 adding about 200 folks to support this Datacenter effort.   K If the ramp-up to Datacenter has been 'much slower than expected', how many H were expected to be sold by now?  Does this box have VAX 9xxx written on it?a <<<t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:36:31 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: OT - demise of ML770 = Message-ID: <PjMT6.24642$zl5.7908360@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   3 > With only circa 350 systems sold, I think so.....t >u > Ken Randell wrote: > >>>lK > Some 350+ of the boxes have been sold so far.  I also saw where Unisys is ; > adding about 200 folks to support this Datacenter effort.  >uH > If the ramp-up to Datacenter has been 'much slower than expected', how manyJ > were expected to be sold by now?  Does this box have VAX 9xxx written on > it?   K I would venture to "guess" that CPQ had fewer than 20 revenue ships of thisvF box. Unisys was damn near giving away seed systems, folks just weren't buying.h  I A four-pack of ProLiant 8x00 systems costs >30 percent less than a 32-waycK ML770 cost. Plus, the ML770 had I/0 and scaling issues that put some of the1 older DEC boxes to shame.e  I No matter. CPQ's working on its own McKinley 32-way that'll incorporate a=J bunch of WildFire technology. Should be a nice piece of work when it comes# out (Intel willing) late next year.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:37:51 -0400a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)S Subject: Re: OT: Open Source and the Providence and Worchester Railroad, and Alphas L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0706010937510001@user-2ivebpa.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <87y9r51wcg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  H > ... when sources where closed off, the reason stated was not that theyE > where being ripped off, but that they resulted in a slew of one-offg1 > modified systems that made support a nightmare.n   Sounds like linux...   -- c Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:31:17 -0400' From: "Zeni Schleter" <zzb@y12.doe.gov>sJ Subject: problem with Decwindows after VMS721_UPDATE-V0200 on Alphastation, Message-ID: <9fo6op$gbl$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>  I After applying the patchand rebooting, my Decwindows is not starting - nolK logon screen.  The disk was very fragmented and gave one problem during the J patch about APB.EXE being fragmented.  I followed the instructions and theK reboot was successful but the Decwindows interface has not worked since.  InH have defragmented the disk and rebooted.  No difference.  I have checkedC sysgen parameter, windows, and it is set correctly.  I followed themK suggestions in the FAQs as I thought applicable.  I have applied the latesteG Motif 1.2-6 and rebooted.  No difference.  I have finally reapplied the>G VMS721_update-v0200 and rebooted.  No apparent difference.  There is no I output in the Decw$server_0_error.log.  There is a  DECW$SERVER_0 process1F but no Decw$loginout.  The last time I tried @sys$startup;decw$startupK RESTART the process hung and on the Display I noticed a "black"  X over the K F2-screen's writing which does move with the mouse.  The Control-F2 used toyI toggle and now it doesn't so I don't think I have improved the situation.m  G Has anyone else seen this happen?  The alphastation is a DEC3000 model.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 15:50:07 GMTy3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann):N Subject: Re: problem with Decwindows after VMS721_UPDATE-V0200 on Alphastation0 Message-ID: <9fo7rf$aj9$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  V In article <9fo6op$gbl$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>, "Zeni Schleter" <zzb@y12.doe.gov> writes:J >After applying the patchand rebooting, my Decwindows is not starting - noL >logon screen.  The disk was very fragmented and gave one problem during theK >patch about APB.EXE being fragmented.  I followed the instructions and thelL >reboot was successful but the Decwindows interface has not worked since.  II >have defragmented the disk and rebooted.  No difference.  I have checked D >sysgen parameter, windows, and it is set correctly.  I followed theL >suggestions in the FAQs as I thought applicable.  I have applied the latestH >Motif 1.2-6 and rebooted.  No difference.  I have finally reapplied theH >VMS721_update-v0200 and rebooted.  No apparent difference.  There is noJ >output in the Decw$server_0_error.log.  There is a  DECW$SERVER_0 processG >but no Decw$loginout.  The last time I tried @sys$startup;decw$startupoL >RESTART the process hung and on the Display I noticed a "black"  X over theL >F2-screen's writing which does move with the mouse.  The Control-F2 used toJ >toggle and now it doesn't so I don't think I have improved the situation. >cH >Has anyone else seen this happen?  The alphastation is a DEC3000 model.  M I had a similar problem under 7.1-2 after I applied a patch. It turned out to29 be an incompatibility with Multinet (wich Process fixed).,   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:34:41 -0400o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: QuickStrike?  Why not "OpenStrike"?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0706010934410001@user-2ivebpa.dialup.mindspring.com>  A In article <01060520340126@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org wrote:   6 > From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K > > <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message news:01060511263347@antinode.org...oK > > >    With Solaris licenses being free and Sun hardware being (arguably)eN > > > cheaper, most software vendors could probably use a little encouragementG > > > to move anywhere else.  Moving most software vendors to VMS would 9 > > > probably require the application of physical force.s > > 5 > > Or perhaps the application of DII-COE compliance.0 > > >    Couldn't hurt.  I was not one of those <insert derogatoryH > characterization here, as appropriate> who disparaged the idea in thisJ > forum.  The ideal would seem to be a single Alpha executable which would- > run under Tru64 or VMS.  Sounds hard to me.u  H You might be able to run Tru64 images on VMS with a variation of the VAXJ translated image environment.  A standard translator (simpler than VAX -->G Alpha) and a standard bit of wrapper code might support a wide range of 
 Tru64 images.   H Or this might be very hard.  Alpha PALcode support for Tru64 and for VMSE are very different.  VMS PAL might almost be a functional superset ofe' Try64, but the devil is in the details."  F In any case, this scheme would require extensive work on the VMS image activator, linker, etc.o   -- t Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:37:58 -0400v# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: RZ28-E dead?"+ Message-ID: <3B1F83B6.9C77FECB@hsc.vcu.edu>o   Hey, i'll remember THAT one!!!!-   j.   Island Computers US Corp wrote:4  & > Anybody ever tried the freezer trick >nN > Stuff the hard drive in the freezer in a sealed ziplock bag (squeeze the air2 > out of it) and leave it in there for a few hours >0K > We had a drive that was doing basically the same thing (Quantum - ex DEC)NK > and we actually managed to revive it for a few hours - managed to get theP > data off it at least >d > DT >  > --! > Island Computers US Corporation  > 2700 Gregory StreetI > Suite 150n > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622  > Fax: 912 201 0096t > sales@islandco.com > www.islandco.com) > http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htma > ( > <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in message; > news:IZ8T6.26669$w4.676211@e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com...s2 > > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:E > > : Main casualty so far is RZ28-E full height Quantum drive insideh > > : enclosureC > > : of MicroVax 3100 M80.o > >uJ > > : I knew something was wrong when I changed the backup tapes and heard > > : alouduI > > : clicking at approx 1 Hz from the MicroVAX. Attempting to mount diskt > > : results in:e > >i > > : $ mount/over=id dka200? > > : %MOUNT-W-IDXHDRBAD, index file header is bad; backup used0( > > : %MOUNT-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline > >yA > > : Error log shows command transmission failures to the drive.6 > >DL > > : Power cycled box, no change. Tried "rubber hammer". No change. Is this' > > : drive toast? Look that way to me?  > > E > > I've had three RZ28/DSP3210 drives fail in exactly that same way,EF > > even down to the ~1Hz ticking sound.  I was unable to get any dataF > > off two of them, and one of them I was able to extract the data byE > > taking the drive out of the case and keeping it cool by blowing a E > > high-speed fan over it, but that drive only started showing thosetG > > problems when it got hot.  The other two had the problems even whenB > > they were completely cool. > > -- > > Eric Dittman > > dittman@dittman.netc > >"   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 03:48:11 -0700u, From: sanface@sanface.com (SANFACE Software) Subject: Shareware: txt2pdf 5.0 = Message-ID: <18712ccd.0106070248.5d8108aa@posting.google.com>u  / We would like to announce txt2pdf 5.0 version. h# http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.htmlmE txt2pdf is shareware; it is a very flexible and powerful PERL5 scriptmB that converts text files to PDF format files, so you can use it inA every operating systems supported by PERL5, including VMS. If you-B prefer we also distribute executables for Windows, Linux, Solaris,F AIX, HP-UX, and FreeBSD. Inside the Windows version is Visual txt2pdf,	 a VB GUI.-   What's new in this version   E We've deleted the print in the first line of title or text file name.EB It's possible to re-run infinitely (every configured second, sleep@ feature) txt2pdf on a specific directory (and also its recursiceD subdirectories) moving the produced PDFs in a specific directory and* the original text in a specific directory. -current the program version   Test txt2pdf 5.0!l6 You can find it at http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:18:38 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>3 Subject: SKC Writeup on VMS Diamond and Tech Forumsa= Message-ID: <iXMT6.18128$QP6.7702608@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>n  J A review of the recent VMS Forums in Europe may be found on the cyberpagesA of The Enquirer. And yes, the review is formatted in HTML. Enjoy!i  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/07060111.htm    -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net$ Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 04:28 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: subject _OPEN_VMS, Message-ID: <7JUN200104285562@gerg.tamu.edu>  ' mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu writes...pJ }Today we have OpenSSL, OpenSSH, OpenBSD, OpenPGP, etc. all of which shareE }the features that they are free to use and the source code is freelywL }available.  Obviously neither one of these descriptions apply to _Open_VMS. } H }I've really got to hand it to the DEC marketeers of the days of yore.  L }These folks couldn't advertise their way out of a paper sack.  Yet somehow O }they managed to smudge the company's bread and butter product with a name thatAM }was silly and pointless from the get go, and one that only grows worse with uM }age.  Now, years later any but the cognoscenti would assume that OpenVMS is  4 }an open source project - which it certainly is not. } I }Perhaps Compaq should rename it "ClosedVMS".   That would be relatively tK }descriptive of both VMS security and Compaq's current mind set concerning -J }the product.  And there's something nicely Orwellian about "OpenVMS" and " }"ClosedVMS" being the same thing! } 	 }Regards,R } 
 }David Mathog   I I would (maybe, if I had a very high fever) suggest that the next versionAG be named UltraVMS. Then the version after that could be Ultra^2 VMS. OrHK perhaps an even more radical change to VeForce which could come in multiple.E levels - VeForce MS at the low end and VeForce Ultra at the high end.g   --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:32:45 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e Subject: Re: subject _OPEN_VMS$ Message-ID: <3b1f9ebb$1@news.si.com>  J >I would (maybe, if I had a very high fever) suggest that the next version >be named UltraVMS.    Or how about TruVMS? -- dA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comoA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventl< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:36:23 -0500P+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>r Subject: RE: subject _OPEN_VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F08@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----B > From: Brian Tillman [mailto:tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com]  @ > >I would (maybe, if I had a very high fever) suggest that the  > next version > >be named UltraVMS.    > Or how about TruVMS?  2 Maybe "AjarVMS," since it's not quite "open"... ;)   eVMS?   D iVMS?  (I do have a VAXStation 2000 at home attached to an LSI ADM-5, terminal with a sign that says "iVAX" on it)   Regards,   Chrisa  ! Christopher Smith, Perl DeveloperA Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");e 'l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:58:38 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>x Subject: Re: subject _OPEN_VMS& Message-ID: <3B1FA4AE.F2C9BF3@fsi.net>   Brian Tillman wrote: > L > >I would (maybe, if I had a very high fever) suggest that the next version > >be named UltraVMS.a >  > Or how about TruVMS?   ...or maybe:   OpenVMS-VAX --> VMS/32   OpenVMS-Alpha --> VMS/64  D I always thought the "Tru" in "Tru64" was meant to imply that it wasH truly a 64-bit o.s. from the get-go, not something extended artificially8 (i.e., B.S.'d) to provide support for 64-bit addressing.   -- h David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 04:17:48 -0400y2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0706010417490001@user-2iveaje.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3B1EB3CF.561590E0@infopuls.com>, Christof Brasso <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:e   > Robert Deininger wrote:O  J > > If long multi-part procedure names become a pain, you can shorten them$ > > with some renaming declarations. > 7 > The trend in high quality programming is towards full @ > declaration, long names etc., and strongly against renaming or> > aliasing because this makes the same objects available under1 > different names which is overall not desirable.r  C Renaming a subprogram in Ada isn't what I would call "aliasing", asbJ aliasing is usually meant in C or Fortran.  Renaming gives what appears toH be a new subprogram in the particular context.  You can change the name,F paramater defaults, etc.  The fact that the new subprogram is actuallyH implemented using an existing one is not really relevant.  Ada won't let you mix them up.  I If the subprogram has side effects, then there are many opportunities foriE obfuscation if a module uses both the old and new names.  But this iseG really more like the evil of mis-used global data: two routines sharinge? something.  The routine just happen to have the same underlyinge6 implementation, but that's not the source of the evil.  G And as Chris pointed out, full names in a large Ada system can get VERYm< long.  Renaming certainly helps to clarify in some contexts.  H When you're well-rested, you should jump into the USE vs. no-USE wars inI Ada some time.  Another facet of "aliasing"?  That debate will never end.0  = > Some verbosity of all well designed languages (look at Java B > which is very verbose for a C style language) is a result of theA > bad experiences with operator based languages like C/C++, Lisp,,? > APL or PERL. The basic contest: how high is the percentage ofe= > random texts that the compiler/interpreter regards as valid  > programs?   J I haven't measured, but it seems clear that random texts are very unlikelyH to be valid Ada.  And it isn't done with verbosity.  The verbosity is toI help human readers, and is a matter of style that is widely used in Ada.  H The compiler has its own ways to catch mistakes, which work just as well in very terse programs.   2 > The idea of verbosity is to some extend to avoid6 > stupid mistakes and make the programs easy readable.   -- c Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jun 2001 17:06:13 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>O Subject: Re: The future of VMSH Message-ID: <y4d78hy7fe.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:t  = > > > Challanger and Ariane V will not be the only "victims".pD > > Both Challenger and the first Ariane V were a failure of systemsO > > engineering. Somewhat different rules apply than on software 'engineering". A > Both were a result of sloppyness. The reason I mentioned it wasn@ > to show that you should take into account that people not only@ > make mistakes but also don't adhere to best practices or rules > given by their employer.  E Have you actually read the reports of the investigations on those tworF incidents? Both blame, and recommend changes to, the processes used inI running and/or developing systems. Both are quite careful in not pointingtJ fingers at individuals "[not] adhere[ing] to best practices or rules givenI by their employer", because that either didn't happen, or was not a majoru% contributor to the incident's cause. u  L It's a difference between a piece of work that is faulty, and pieces of workK that, individually, are not faulty but that taken together will not work asd7 designed, or at all. The latter is systems engineering.e   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:51:40 +0100d% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>l Subject: Re: The future of VMS8 Message-ID: <86juhtsirrdhob5uif428uj0ll7b8r8qti@4ax.com>  . On 06 Jun 2001 17:06:13 +0200, Jan Vorbrueggen8 <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:  , >Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: >s> >> > > Challanger and Ariane V will not be the only "victims".E >> > Both Challenger and the first Ariane V were a failure of systemsyP >> > engineering. Somewhat different rules apply than on software 'engineering".B >> Both were a result of sloppyness. The reason I mentioned it wasA >> to show that you should take into account that people not onlyMA >> make mistakes but also don't adhere to best practices or rulesR >> given by their employer.t >VF >Have you actually read the reports of the investigations on those twoG >incidents? Both blame, and recommend changes to, the processes used ineJ >running and/or developing systems. Both are quite careful in not pointingK >fingers at individuals "[not] adhere[ing] to best practices or rules givendJ >by their employer", because that either didn't happen, or was not a major  : Eh, my recollection of the Challenger  inquiry and the BBCD re-construction is that according to the rules Challenger should not@ have launched. Indeed the booster manufacturers initially gave aC launch condition violation warning to NASA on the very grounds thatsC the O-rings would not hold. NASA management put extreme pressure ontA the manufacturers to withdraw this and, after argument, a companyeE director over-ruled their engineering director and changed the status B to "no violations". The SRB booster designers clearly said "If youA launch it will blow up". NASA disagreed and managers over-ruled. t  B The tapes of the telephone conversations in which the decision was) reversed were used in the reconstruction.i  & >contributor to the incident's cause.  >oM >It's a difference between a piece of work that is faulty, and pieces of workiL >that, individually, are not faulty but that taken together will not work as8 >designed, or at all. The latter is systems engineering. >e >	Janc   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:42:22 +0100a  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: RE: The future of VMSH Message-ID: <OF94C94955.7AA44CA0-ON80256A64.0044EBA5@qedi.quintiles.com>  J Given the comments from Kerry and me yesterday, it was interesting to comeF across and article in Computer Weekly dated 31-MAY-2001 in which SteveE Lane, Abbey National's director of group technology says that finding I Windows programmers with a mainframe-style approach to systems is the keyd; to success in his bid to building a full Windows mainframe.-   To quote from the article :0 >>>:J Speaking at the Tif conference, Lane said that people with desktop WindowsK experience tend to worry less about the knock on effects of what they do on0I the system, and that he needs people with rigourous mainframe discipline.d <<<>  3 The article ends (and thereby spoils it all) with :" >>>rK Security is not an issue because the system is not web-facing and there are2D few personal users - the main users are other applications, he said. <<<a  J The full article is entitled "Mainframe Windows programmers sought" and is1 on page 10 of Computer Weekly, dated 31-MAY-2001.e   Steve.   Kerry Main commented : >>> K Similarily, keeping an IT infrastructure up and running on a 24x7 basis and D fixing things before they impact the business and complex middlewareK programming designed to be highly scalable, reliable, take advantage of the K local platforms clustering features etc requires a whole different level oftI support than a simple college programmer (VB?) or admin person who has nod real experience. <<<i        ? "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> on 06-06-2001 01:16:06 PMl  7 Please respond to "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>n   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:f   Subject:  RE: The future of VMSr     Steve,  E Just to expand on what you are saying about todays additional supportu requirements -  I Even though the cars today are more sophisticated, faster, better quality,H etc., you can still easily teach a 16 year old how to drive. That is not! much different than 10 years ago.   K Similarily, the kids today can use faster systems to do certain things at a  certain level.  > However, the mechanic fixing integration problems with onboardF microprocessors in many common vehicles today is very much a different6 person than the mechanic working on cars 10 years ago.  K GPS devices being able to locate cars and shutdown engines in case of thefttF  that is a totally different vehicle support requirement than tuning a carburetor.s  K Similarily, keeping an IT infrastructure up and running on a 24x7 basis anddD fixing things before they impact the business and complex middlewareK programming designed to be highly scalable, reliable, take advantage of the K local platforms clustering features etc requires a whole different level of I support than a simple college programmer (VB?) or admin person who has no7 real experience.   :-)9  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services- Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----D From: steven.reece@quintiles.com [mailto:steven.reece@quintiles.com] Sent: June 6, 2001 5:37 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi Subject: Re: The future of VMS        ' I think it's not quite that simple.....m  H Computers, like education, have been dumbed down in certain areas.  It'sJ true that a person leaving high school now thinks that they can administerG systems (and are often employed for that role).  The problem comes whenDB something goes wrong or when the department/company which they areK supporting reaches a certain critical mass.  At this stage, the high school G person just can't cope unless they've had significant experience.  TheymH probably don't have the analysis techniques in their heads to be able toG consider what the symptoms are and what the underlying problem which is J causing them might be.  As a colleague and I discussed and he suggested toI me a while back - there are too many people out there who can look at thegH system or the router but can't see the whole picture and think about how  all of these items fit together.  E One thing that came up in another thread this week was the problem ofdJ whether network cards can do autonegotiation on speeds and feeds.  Most ofG us in this group can understand what the problems might be (or at least E hazard a guess) and how this affects other systems on the network.  ASJ windows weenie straight from school would probably not have the backgroundC or the experience to be able to do that.  Heck, there's people with.I significant experience in my previous and present employment who wouldn'ttK have the experience and would probably go all around the houses to supply aD two second fix.o  I For programming, I don't think there are many places where programming is.< taught other than in clicky-draggy mode using VB or similar. Steve.   Linda Luik wrote:n >>>eE It's funny how programming has degraded from an engineering task to as= basic high school student project. It's also funny how systemlH administrators used to be engineers (or at least people with a four year@ college degrees) now there's high school graduates (little or noG college) performing these tasks. Not that that's a bad thing. That just H means that computers have become easier to use and high school educatorsH are catching up with the real world. The bad part is is that disciplinedG use of structured programming techiniques and documentation have put in,- the back seat -- or hidden away in the trunk!n <<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:14:27 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B1F7E31.E78C4131@videotron.ca>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:.G > Lane, Abbey National's director of group technology says that findingrK > Windows programmers with a mainframe-style approach to systems is the keyo= > to success in his bid to building a full Windows mainframe.S   What goes around comes around.  L Many companies opted to dump proprietary (serious) systems because they feltF that they could not find enough qualified people, opting instead to goJ mainstream with Windows crap where they could hire any teenager brought upC playing Nintendo and hence having automatic ability to use Windows.e  K This left experienced people like me without much work while companies were M complaining that they couldn't find enough Windows weenies and that there waslI a shortage. (Little did those companies know that they would have to hiresB twice as many windows weenies as serious experienced programmers).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:14:29 -0500a+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>  Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F02@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]   > Christopher Smith wrote:   [snip]  @ > ideas." PLs development is a circus of borrowing of ideas. But9 > some people are smarter and some are more interested intB > design/quality than in market share, similarity to existing ones@ > etc.. Sometimes the latter and the former are the same and you@ > get really good results, i.e. really good languages. Alas, you> > need some time to adapt. It's like in the OS arena: a personB > only acquainted with Windoze or UNIX (which should never be used? > anyway because it's a collection of designless pieces of codea> > fragments) has real problems to understand VMS. I just had a@ > discussion with a programmer and former sys admin who admitted@ > that VMS was terra incognita since they phased it our anly six? > months after joining the university at that time. This person > > has really no clue about VMS. How could we expect someone to, > like something what is completely unknown?  I A perfectly valid point.  On the other hand, what is it that makes peopleaJ like a language?  This could be key in finding a good language that peopleG will use.  After all -- if nobody likes it, it won't get enough use for 7 anyone to get used to it... and nobody will like it. :)   : > > on.  That's not a bad thing, of course, but the extra  > verbosity required. > > also necessitates extra typing on my part.  @ > If you could use an ultra modern development environment thereA > might be a chance to copy something instead of re-typing it ;-)-  J True enough.  Generally, though, you shouldn't have to repeat yourself tooL often, since there are loop constructs, and sometimes inheritance to do thatL for you.  (...and if you want them -- loops -- unrolled, there are generally compiler options to do it)  A > About 50% of the quality of a PL is the style introduced by itst? > designers and continued/maintained by its community. To writeV? > easy understandable SW is to a very high degree a question ofo= > style. Ada supports and even sometimes enforces this style.9  I It does do that... :)  I'm not sure how I feel about "enforcement" of the-H style, myself.  I tend to think I have a perfetly good programming styleI which may not exactly match what it wants to enforce.  On the other hand,DI I'm sure people with absolutely terrible styles think the same, so in the,  big picture it makes some sense.    > > > If you're going to write the comment anyway, the previous  > is just extra 	 > > work.p  5 > But there is one important rule (like in good operaaA > productions): never duplicate the program in the comment (neverlA > show on stage what is already clear with the music), i.e. nevery? > comment what is obvious from what is written - always commenth? > about overall structure or what is going to happen or what is @ > the idea behind. The comment should contain hints which aren't > obvious from what is written.s  H Good point again.  I try very hard to follow this rule, myself, though I: haven't heard it said that way.  I'll have to remember it.  H The real trick is figuring out what is "obvious" from the code.  After aJ certain point, the line between "obvious" and "that's what it's written toK do" blurs some.  I find that since there are invariably some people who arebJ less knowledgeable than me interested in the code, it's best to comment on something if you're not sure.p   Regards,   Chrisn  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerc Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");e 'e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:28:08 -0500i+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>m Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F03@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----H > From: Shane.F.Smith@healthnet.com [mailto:Shane.F.Smith@healthnet.com]  : > Someone recently put out the quote about "you can write  > FORTRAN code in any = > language". (And it's true, I know this from experience...) r > Well, you cani: > write crap code in any language too. The most important  > component in any@ > piece of quality code is programmer discipline. Sure, you can  > use single@ > character variable names in C and leave out the comments, but  > you can do@ > equivalently stupid things in any language. A disciplined and  > determined= > programmer can produce sources (ie commented code) you can f > understand ind? > any language I know of. If anyone has written a language you o
 > /can't/ putu? > comments in, they should be caught and beaten liberally with . > a wet haddock,9 > then locked away somewhere they can't do any more harm.   I This brings to mind a guy I used to work with.  His name was Sajeev.  Hise6 code was -- shall we say, strange, in several regards:  G He would copy liberally from textbooks, preserving variable names, etc,dJ which probably should have been given completely different names which had6 at least something to do with the current function. :)  I He would cut and paste blocks of code from function to function (in C++!)PI which would have been more properly in separate functions themselves.  AtsL one point, I counted two pages of code repeated in five functions, verbatim!  K Lastly, on the rare occasion that he was forced to make up his own variable.: name, he'd name them after himself.  (Very descriptive. :)  D I once was writing a test application; it was a throw away to test aK library, in which I decided (as  joke) to try incorporating the third pointnL in my test program.  It was wonderful.  Three typewritten pages of C++, withF every function, variable, object, etc, named Sajeev (or some strangelyI capitalized variation).  Had I been forced to go back and read it, even Ia would have been confused. :)  > To give an example, there might have been (probably wasn't) a:    SAjeeV += Sajeev.SAJeev(SAjeev);  > Anyway, the moral of the story is:  always name your variables descriptively.   Regards,   Chris@  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developera Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");f 's   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:34:42 -0500i+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>s Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F04@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]  = > Many companies opted to dump proprietary (serious) systems w > because they feltlH > that they could not find enough qualified people, opting instead to go9 > mainstream with Windows crap where they could hire any g > teenager brought uptE > playing Nintendo and hence having automatic ability to use Windows.a  I You can't dump proprietary system if you still have some windows crap. :)n5 (You probably know this, however, it bears repeating)r   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerr Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");e '    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:48:24 -05000+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>  Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F05@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]   > Christopher Smith wrote:  ? > > Note that this document says that lines 14 and 15 will not e > behave properly,? > > however, it doesn't specify in this case that the compiler y > should return an@ > > error and refuse to accept them.  There are a few things of 
 > this naturee% > > floating around, especially in C.e  ? > This is in deed very evil and that shouldn't of course not ine= > any programming language. Sometimes there is weaker form ofp: > this: you can write it but it will behave differently on7 > different platforms but at least equal (i.e. defined,o! > deterministic) on one platform.   G Right.  I don't know what to say about the latter case.  On one hand itsE causes problems, but on the other hand different platforms are, well,[E different.  You can't necessarily take advantage of platform specific,H features without doing things in a platform specific manner.  I do thinkG that all attempts should be made to make things as uniform as possible,d9 though. A standard set of functions helps a lot, I think.e    & > These are a good but hard questions:> > - should we aim for portability from VMS to other platforms?: > - how do we get people to use the language(s) of choice?  A > I personally think that VMS is unique and therefore any attempte@ > to make portability inherent will lower the quality of the VMS? > version - at least wrt VMS integration. I'm not talking aboutr> > (trivial) best practices like layering and modularisation. I? > think about using the unique VMS API (QIO, AST, RMS). I thinkt@ > the best what can happend to VMS is that high quality apps are@ > developed or ported to VMS that take full advantage of the VMS@ > unique features. The idea is to attract *users* or *customers*9 > to use VMS instead to offer good programs also on othert > platforms.  H See above.  Yes, VMS is unique, and no, I don't believe it's possible toJ take full advantage of it without doing some VMS specific things.  I guessH whether we can make it portable, though, depends on the extent that we'dJ choose to rely on a set of external libraries (which could then have their3 functions re-done in a platform specific manner...)   J It's desirable to do this, to increase acceptance of the language (and theK libraries...), but personally I wouldn't want to sacrifice the VMS specifics	 features.n  : > I'm personally sure that there is and will be only smallA > percentage of programmers who are willing to concentrate on them9 > real interesting programming tasks instead of masteringaB > unecessary problems of PLs that aren't designed or don't meet up= > to date quality criteria. The question is therefore to findt> > exactly this minority and to create a community or something= > like that which includes these people and the customer/userp? > base. What interests me most in that respect: how many peoples? > are there of this type (including those that don't know yet)?m= > And is this number high enough to achieve what we need (allt% > necessary apps and enough payment)?g  ! You could also express this as:     I How many programmers would rather concentrate on large projects vs. small  single-purpose applications?  ; Which programmers are interested in doing something new vs.  re-implementation?  J Which programmers are more likely to want to use an available library than to re-write parts on their own?   " It would make an interesting pole.   Regards,   Chrisd    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerl Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");i 'o   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 03:53 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) J Subject: Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2, Message-ID: <7JUN200103533203@gerg.tamu.edu>  5 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...g }pat saunders wrote: }> oC }> I am new to VMS !!! My question is how do u find out the DEC-NEThG }> ethernet address of a MicroVax 3100-30. The version of VMS is 5.5-2.oD }> The version of dec-net is DECnet-OSI for OpenVMS Version V5.6B-08 }  }You're screwed. } C }Even many of us long-time DECies find Dnet-V (Dnet-OSI) hopelessly  }incomprehensible. }David J. Dachtera    > I find it to be a pain, but not entirely incomprehensible - so> I'll supply an answer (which it took me about half a minute to> figure out this time: a relatively short time for figuring outD how to get the specific info you want out of NCL, in my experience):  ) $ mcr ncl show csma station * mac address   ? (Or you can run NCL, be it via "mcr ncl" - which is a minimally 5 documented shortcut for doing this sort of thing - orl; "run sys$system:ncl" and at the "NCL>" prompt type the same 9 "show csma station * mac address" command and then "exit"  or "control-z".)  @ This should show you the current address in use by each ethernet interface on the system.  A If you have more than one ethernet device and want it to tell you 3 which is which, you can make the command into this:r  4 $ mcr ncl show csma station * mac address, comm port  D NOTE: It requires privilege to use NCL. Well, you can *run* NCL with@ no special privilege, but as far as I know there is not a single> command other than HELP or EXIT that will actually do anythingD other than return a "-NCL-E-ACCESSDENIED, access denied" type error.C I do not know what privilege it actually wants - OPER and/or SYSPRVa@ are not sufficient. BYPASS is (not too surprisingly) sufficient.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:45:26 +0200e= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>hJ Subject: Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-25 Message-ID: <3B1F4D36.9BABCE77@contrastmediagroep.nl>e   Carl Perkins wrote:a  F > NOTE: It requires privilege to use NCL. Well, you can *run* NCL withB > no special privilege, but as far as I know there is not a single@ > command other than HELP or EXIT that will actually do anythingF > other than return a "-NCL-E-ACCESSDENIED, access denied" type error.E > I do not know what privilege it actually wants - OPER and/or SYSPRVnB > are not sufficient. BYPASS is (not too surprisingly) sufficient.  D No special privs needed, you need the NET$EXAMINE rights identifier.   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:24:45 +0100e8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>J Subject: RE: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2N Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEF9A@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>   The commands  + $ MCR NCL SHOW CSMA_CD STATION * ALL STATUS'   ande  * $ MCR NCP SHOW KNOWN LINES CHARACTERISTICS $ MCR NCP SHOW EXEC STATUS  G will give both the hardware address and the DECnet Ethernet address fore, DECnet/OSI and DECnet Phase IV respectively.  F This is one of the few example where DECnet/OSI requires less typing.    John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:21:03 +0100h- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>sJ Subject: Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2) Message-ID: <3B1F639F.B2FB0C3B@bbc.co.uk>b   Carl Perkins wrote:i   >d >sF > NOTE: It requires privilege to use NCL. Well, you can *run* NCL withB > no special privilege, but as far as I know there is not a single@ > command other than HELP or EXIT that will actually do anythingF > other than return a "-NCL-E-ACCESSDENIED, access denied" type error.E > I do not know what privilege it actually wants - OPER and/or SYSPRVlB > are not sufficient. BYPASS is (not too surprisingly) sufficient. >a  C  its not a priv, you need the NET$MANAGE identifier granted to your  account.  ! Well, you may need privs as well.    regards    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukf  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:13:04 -0500u1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eJ Subject: Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2' Message-ID: <3B1F8BF0.5777674D@fsi.net>a   Oswald Knoppers wrote: >  > Carl Perkins wrote:  > H > > NOTE: It requires privilege to use NCL. Well, you can *run* NCL withD > > no special privilege, but as far as I know there is not a singleB > > command other than HELP or EXIT that will actually do anythingH > > other than return a "-NCL-E-ACCESSDENIED, access denied" type error.G > > I do not know what privilege it actually wants - OPER and/or SYSPRVmD > > are not sufficient. BYPASS is (not too surprisingly) sufficient. > F > No special privs needed, you need the NET$EXAMINE rights identifier.  7 ...to SHOW stuff, and NET$MANAGE to change stuff, IIRC.t   --   David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems, http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:44:46 +0200: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>J Subject: Re: UPDATE - finding the dec-net ethernet address using vms 5.5-2J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106071620370.11471-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  " On 7 Jun 2001, Carl Perkins wrote:  7 >+"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...t [...]rE >+}Even many of us long-time DECies find Dnet-V (Dnet-OSI) hopelesslye >+}incomprehensible. [...]t; >+I find it to be a pain, but not entirely incomprehensiblen  C  Really - one of the arguments is "from NCL you can get more info".e:  But that has nothing for the system manager view, that is feature of DECNET V(OSI).u  <  The point is: "will be NCP SHOW LINE EWA0: COUNTER a better, resolution than appriopiate NCL equivalent".A IMHO yes - because the naming in NCP *definitely* better describei the layer-logic of network !9  Having the possiblity of differrent syntax to differrent = network resolution (means b.ex. differrent class of protocol,cA b.ex. csma-cd/fddi/...) *in the same layer* probably looks bettere; in *some* point - but I personally find as better intuitive ? the NCP resolution: name of layer (LINE, CIRCUIT, LINK, OBJECT)i; name of the parameter - and *optional* qualifiers or output 8 field (where can be skipped for unappriopiate protocol).  8  Will agree with Davids opinions, probably not using the same words - but...o   >+ - so @ >+I'll supply an answer (which it took me about half a minute to@ >+figure out this time: a relatively short time for figuring outF >+how to get the specific info you want out of NCL, in my experience):  
 ...really -:)i   [...]t) >+NOTE: It requires privilege to use NCL.h  6  No, except the BYPASS or CMKRNL use if you forgets of the NET$* identifiers :)8  As long the idea will not be consistent in *all* COMPAQ6 -created network utilities the feature has limited use= (the *new* TCPIP requires b.ex. OPER *without* possiblity to   control with identifier etc.)     Regards - Gotfryd   -- eE ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEs. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:46:03 +1000/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>sE Subject: Re: Use of SYSMAN to keep password file in sync on 8 systemsv0 Message-ID: <RfGT6.823$qJ4.31763@ozemail.com.au>  1 "Norman Woo" <nwoo@videotron.ca> wrote in messageo2 news:4aktht43ijudqghfnjj7k8cv0tk3ju599a@4ax.com...
 > Hi folks >'D > We have 8 NON-CLUSTERED systems (4 x Compaq Alphas running OpenVMSE > 7.1-2 and 4 x Digital VAX running VMS 5.5-2) distributed throughoutuF > the country.  Users can basically log onto any of these 8 systems toC > do their work.  Their accounts are captive in the sense that they B > cannot get at the system command prompt.  Once they log onto theH > system, they are into the application.  The application is the same onH > all 8 systems.  One of the issues we need to resolve is when the usersF > change their passwords when logging onto anyone of the 8 systems, weH > would like to have this password updated on the other 7 systems.  This@ > way, when the user logs onto another system, they just need toE > remember the new password and not have to worry which systems still  > have their old passwords.y > G > We looked at the VAX Clustering solution but found it was too costly.gH > We also looked at Compaq DCE but DCE only works on OpenVMS 7.0 and up.G > We also looked at third party solution (from Ideous and Symantec) but ( > were also costly (We have 1000+ users) >cG > Doing some digging into the manuals, we saw a potential: SYSMAN.  Any 9 > comments as to this solution? Or any other suggestions?  >oB I would have a look at a product called "bossnet" from npr systems, http://www.austrade.gov.au/AOD/Page17066.asp  it has always worked well for us Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:21:18 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.comE Subject: Re: Use of SYSMAN to keep password file in sync on 8 systems H Message-ID: <OFDCBBA22A.2CADA593-ON80256A64.0031F1D2@qedi.quintiles.com>   Norman,hK The solution depends on what pattern of availability the systems have, whatd5 resources you have and what you're prepared to spend.!  K One employer that I used to be with utilized a second user account for each I user that had proxy access from one of two central nodes at the company's!I HQ.  Logging into this second account put the user into a password changeaH menu which then used DECnet scripts to change the password on all of theK systems.  This is a cheap, nasty and not particularly clean method of doingh what you require.j  C A client-server setup could be a home-grown solution in which a SET J PASSWORD on any node updates all of the SYSUAFs.  This would probably alsoH require a call-out from LOGINOUT so that any changes of password carriedA out at login time were propagated too.  I've seen this done at anfK institution I was at in an earlier life where there were numerous Pathworks K servers in buildings across the city and one central VMScluster.  Issuing asI SET PASSWORD on the cluster updated the Pathworks servers so that a loginmG on a PC would be possible with a password reset on the central systems.(J (The systems were, IIRC, running 5.5-2 in the case of the VAXen and 6.1 or earlier on the Alphas).a  I Another alternative which may work with appropriate network availability,cG software purchasability but I haven't done it (so it's _only_theory_ at9H this stage) might be to install DEC DFS on the systems and configure twoE systems as a cluster (to provide resiliance).  Make the two clusterediJ systems the "master" nodes in the password scheme and serve the disk whichH contains the authorization database onto the other nodes using DFS.  NotI clean and performance may be severely impacted.  (In such a situation I'duK probably make two of the Alphas the "authorization servers", but it depends I on many factors that have not been discussed here).  It wouldn't meet the J "login anywhere and change your password everywhere" criterion, but it may be an appropriate compromise.e  ? Yet another option would be to use one system or cluster as the\K authorization database "masters" and copy the authorization files across to-J the other nodes at intervals (maybe once a day, once a week, once an hour,K twice a day etc).  This is similar to the "second user account" option, but8D does mean that plain text passwords do not go all over your network.I Again, it wouldn't meet the login anywhere and change password everywhereh
 criterion.   Steve.   Norman Woo wrote:s >>>mB We have 8 NON-CLUSTERED systems (4 x Compaq Alphas running OpenVMSC 7.1-2 and 4 x Digital VAX running VMS 5.5-2) distributed throughoutrD the country.  Users can basically log onto any of these 8 systems toA do their work.  Their accounts are captive in the sense that theyh@ cannot get at the system command prompt.  Once they log onto theF system, they are into the application.  The application is the same onF all 8 systems.  One of the issues we need to resolve is when the usersD change their passwords when logging onto anyone of the 8 systems, weF would like to have this password updated on the other 7 systems.  This> way, when the user logs onto another system, they just need toC remember the new password and not have to worry which systems stillo have their old passwords.o <<<i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 16:19:16 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)E Subject: Re: Use of SYSMAN to keep password file in sync on 8 systemss3 Message-ID: <8QNT6.1156$fi2.29820@news.cpqcorp.net>o  _ In article <4aktht43ijudqghfnjj7k8cv0tk3ju599a@4ax.com>, Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca> writes:c  C :We have 8 NON-CLUSTERED systems (4 x Compaq Alphas running OpenVMSeD :7.1-2 and 4 x Digital VAX running VMS 5.5-2) distributed throughoutE :the country.  Users can basically log onto any of these 8 systems toi :do their work...l  E   I would tend to encourage an OpenVMS upgrade, particularly to thoseIG   OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 systems.  (That software release shipped in 1992.)g  E :Their accounts are captive in the sense that they cannot get at the   :system command prompt.  e  ?   That would certainly meet the definition of a captive user...e  G :system, they are into the application.  The application is the same onVG :all 8 systems.  One of the issues we need to resolve is when the usersgE :change their passwords when logging onto anyone of the 8 systems, wenB :would like to have this password updated on the other 7 systems.   D   Since these are captive users, I might suggest moving the password!   mechanism into the application.c  F :We looked at the VAX Clustering solution but found it was too costly.  D   Inapplicable, too, given the distances involved between the nodes.  G :We also looked at Compaq DCE but DCE only works on OpenVMS 7.0 and up.n  H   PATHWORKS-based (Advanced Server) domain (distributed) authentication E   is available on OpenVMS V7.1 and later, and Kerberos authenticationaH   is available on V7.3 and later.  (Kerberos would likely be a nice fit '   into your application environment...)h  F :We also looked at third party solution (from Ideous and Symantec) but' :were also costly (We have 1000+ users)p  C   Lock in the passwords and don't worry about it, or use a passwordsD   specific to the application and maintained within the application.  F :Doing some digging into the manuals, we saw a potential: SYSMAN.  Any8 :comments as to this solution? Or any other suggestions?  G   SYSMAN simply issues commands on other nodes, and is not specific to tG   this situation.  You could just as easily use DECnet task-to-task or g:   other similar approach to issue commands on other nodes.  D   There have been regular discussions of keeping a set of passwords    synchronized.   I   Most any hack solution -- based on SYSMAN or task-to-task or otherwise aG   -- could be gotten to work here.  The downside involves what happens nI   when there is a lack of connectivity.  If you are willing to implement rD   the retransmit logic, or are looking to use a reliable transaction@   mechanism such as RTR, or are otherwise willing to accept the A   potential for skewed passwords, well, that makes this easier...   H   Another downside: any mechanism you implement to distribute passwords H   will be an obvious target for someone looking to crack your system(s).  J   There are a dozen or more discussions of external authentication in the G   OpenVMS Ask The Wizard area -- search for "authen" or other string...   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:14:02 +0200i) From: Michael Lemke <lemkemch@de.ina.com>n Subject: Re: vax/vms cdm* Message-ID: <3B1F45DA.5E770ABF@de.ina.com>  G Checkout the freeware cd (also on the web somewhere).  There is an ODS2o reader on it= that should work with Linux.  I used it on Win98 with cygwin.y   Michael    Hang Sit Chan wrote:   > Hi,sJ > I am trying to mount a VAX/VMS 7.2 cd on a RedHat Linux (pc) machine.  I+ > was trying to read and transfer the filescG > to my old vaxstation to do an upgrade. (I have just found my RRD40 cd I > drive on my vaxstation is dead.)   But I have no idea how to mount this H > cd on a linux machine.  Does anybody know whether linux could read vms, > cd at all?  Could you please let know how? > Many thanks.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:55:42 GMT & From: "Marcus" <marcus@compuserve.com> Subject: Vax/VMS Savesets-7 Message-ID: <2uNT6.5327$nf.1873282@typhoon1.ba-dsg.net>h  G I have two (reel) tapes that I wish to transfer to cd-rom or zip e-mailYJ files. The files are saved in vax/vms savesets. Can and will anyone in the2 NYC area / Greater NY be willing to transfer them.     Marc marcus@compuserve.com.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 17:21:41 GMT ) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)eN Subject: Re: VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal Emulat' Message-ID: <9fod75$5gg$1@joe.rice.edu>   6 Reid David (Softlab) (David.Reid@Softlab.co.uk) wrote: :fH : It would be much appreciated if anyone could provide me with a copy of> : this file, so i can test file transfer from my PC - OpenVMS.   http://download.wrq.com/  I : Also, does anyone no whether additional layered software for OpenVMS isn- : required to perform these transfer requestsr   None needed.   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:11:03 +01007 From: "Reid David (Softlab)" <David.Reid@Softlab.co.uk>:Y Subject: VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal Emulat	ion) - Can any K Message-ID: <9EC5A3A16E4BD41180730008C78432AC15F776@birexb01.softlab.co.uk>D  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EF64.1158B76EC Content-Type: text/plain  F It would be much appreciated if anyone could provide me with a copy of< this file, so i can test file transfer from my PC - OpenVMS.  G Also, does anyone no whether additional layered software for OpenVMS isB+ required to perform these transfer requests.   Cheers  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EF64.1158B76EK Content-Type: text/html,+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printabler  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">- <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =e charset=3Dus-ascii">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2650.12">-C <TITLE>VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal = A Emulation) - Can anyone provide me with a copy of this...</TITLE>i </HEAD>s <BODY>  I <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It would be much appreciated if anyone =LH could provide me with a copy of this file, so i can test file transfer =  from my PC - OpenVMS.</FONT></P>  ? <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Also, does anyone no whether =rF additional layered software for OpenVMS is required to perform these = transfer requests</FONT> </P>  . <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Cheers</FONT> </P>   </BODY>  </HTML>e) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EF64.1158B76E--l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:42:01 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>uY Subject: Re: VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal Emulation) - Can p' Message-ID: <3B1FAED9.5F80EBA4@fsi.net>-   > "Reid David (Softlab)" wrote:e > H > It would be much appreciated if anyone could provide me with a copy of> > this file, so i can test file transfer from my PC - OpenVMS.  > You'll have to dig for it, but it should still be available at< ftp.wrq.com. VAXLINK2 is for VAX, and ALPHALK2 is for Alpha.  F > Also, does anyone no whether additional layered software for OpenVMS0 > is required to perform these transfer requests  E The program from WRQ is all you need, but you may need to twiddle thenF type-ahead buffer sizes and perhaps some other items to get it to work well..  G Reflection/2 and /4 both support X/Y/ZMODEM and Kermit, also I believe.    --   David J. DachteraA dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:58:21 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>cY Subject: Re: VAXLINK2.EXE for OpenVMS version 7.1 (Reflections terminal Emulation) - Can -) Message-ID: <3B1F887D.3A8CEE84@bbc.co.uk>2  D It should come with your Reflections distribution or be downloadable from www.wrq.com.     "Reid David (Softlab)" wrote:n   >d >sH > It would be much appreciated if anyone could provide me with a copy of> > this file, so i can test file transfer from my PC - OpenVMS. >dF > Also, does anyone no whether additional layered software for OpenVMS0 > is required to perform these transfer requests >l > Cheers   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofT MedAS or the BBC.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:10:35 +0100i  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com" Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1 and UCX 4.2H Message-ID: <OF83F65BF0.08BD6A41-ON80256A64.00373050@qedi.quintiles.com>  H This has just struck the fear of (insert name of deity) into me, until IJ read some of the UCX 4.2 manuals' cover pages - specifically, those of theJ "Installation and Configuration" manual (order number AA-LU49K-TE, OctoberG 1997) and "User's Guide" (order number AA-PC27H-TE, October 1997) whiche state :   8 Operating System:   OpenVMS Alpha Versions 6.2, 7.0, 7.11                OpenVMS VAX Versions 6.2, 7.0, 7.1DC Software Version:   Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Version 4.2s  B The VMS v7.3 Release Notes are right inasmuchas v4.2 is soon to beK unsupported.  However, on 6.2, 7.0 and 7.1 you would have had to use 4.2 ort/ earlier since 5.0 wasn't even out in 1997 IIRC.e   Steve.  D In comp.os.vms, Kenneth Randell (kenr at datametrics dot com) wrote: >>>,E If you believe the documentation, item 3.15.2 on page 3-10 of the 7.3r Release Notes says this:  I DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Version 4.2 (UCX) is not supported onh' OpenVMS Version 7.0 and later releases.   K This same quote was in the field test release notes; I submitted a questionsE about it as to whether or not the '7.0' was the intended version; the= answer came back that it was.   Ken RandellG <<<,   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:28:25 +0100, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m>) Subject: Re: Weblogic/BEA On OpenVMS XML?=3 Message-ID: <9fo6fv$49f$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>    >e' > VMS management have their hands tied.P  
 Pig's arse!!!e   Regards Richard Maheru   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:52:48 -0500g1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a) Subject: Re: Weblogic/BEA On OpenVMS XML?o' Message-ID: <3B1FA350.7D518728@fsi.net>@   Richard Maher wrote: >  > >h) > > VMS management have their hands tied.h >  > Pig's arse!!!   D Elucidate: how can Rich and Mark spend more money than they get from Q/Corp.?   -- r David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:02:16 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>6 Subject: Re: What is the best way to erase SCSI disks?I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105211733280.1828-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>o  . On Thu, 10 May 2001, Richard D. Piccard wrote:   >+$ help init/eraseD >+INITIALIZE >+
 >+  /ERASE [...] L >+My memory, from the time when this was introduced, is that a "DSE" was notP >+simply a single-pass erasure, but rather involved writing a carefully selected >+sequence of data patterns.  <  I *my* memory is correct then here is a callable interface,B where was mentioned in SYS$EXAMPLE: - but can't find anything... !F  And the standard DSE was 1-pass. I remember, that long time ago I was' wrong and have themself corrected... :]-    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E =====================================================================eF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME6. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:03:12 +0100a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>u6 Subject: Re: What is the best way to erase SCSI disks?) Message-ID: <3B1F89A0.DD024786@bbc.co.uk>i  " "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" wrote:  0 > On Thu, 10 May 2001, Richard D. Piccard wrote: >  > >+$ help init/erasea > >+INITIALIZE > >+ > >+  /ERASE > [...]aN > >+My memory, from the time when this was introduced, is that a "DSE" was notR > >+simply a single-pass erasure, but rather involved writing a carefully selected > >+sequence of data patterns. >s> >  I *my* memory is correct then here is a callable interface,D > where was mentioned in SYS$EXAMPLE: - but can't find anything... !H >  And the standard DSE was 1-pass. I remember, that long time ago I was) > wrong and have themself corrected... :]n   SYS$ETC:RZ_TOOLS.EXE  6 I think from the recent discussion the conlusions were  R (1) Init/erase does not hit blocks marked bad that might contain retrieveable dataQ (2) Low level format is probably adequate (two current colleagues who have worked5O at SECRET sites said this was acceptable on those sites) then write random datae several times on the disk.Q (3) Anyone with the equipment to subsequently resurect your data probably alreadysS has your data if they want it and won't be hanging around looking in skips for yourcN refurbed drives. The real danger is someone rescuing your drive from the skip, bootingtI it up an accidentally getting access to your commercially sensitive data.t   regardst   >a >n >  Regards - Gotfryd     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukn  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofh MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 07 Jun 01 08:45:30 GMTp From: jmfbahciv@aol.com F Subject: Re: Who gets blamed for faulty software (was: A New Twist...)+ Message-ID: <9fnnvl$1t7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>t  3 In article <aSxPGOAeVPBX@eisner.encompasserve.org>,b=    Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:iL >In article <9flidf$ag0@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu  (David Mathog) writes:7 >> In article <y3NndjnxEqJl@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  ; Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:.H >>>In article <9fl2b5$ahc$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >>> @ >>>> Ptui.  Don't people _test_ their software anymore?  You can@ >>>> code inspect and design review until the cows come home and >>>> still ship crap.o >>>tC >>>Certainly people test.  In this case, they could have tested fort/ >>>54 minutes without encountering the problem.  >> tL >> Well, that's the surprising thing - it should have shown up on a call of  oney >> minute and 1 second.  >n >Whoops, bad math on my part.s >hD >As a previous poster said, you have to choose test cases carefully,! >and that means reading the code.t  @ <ahem>  We usually got into trouble when we chose our test casesE carefully. ;-) Knowing the code slants the tests.  There is a feature 8 having people who don't know better play with the stuff.   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 09:53:12 -0500f9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)yF Subject: Re: Who gets blamed for faulty software (was: A New Twist...)3 Message-ID: <eI6pjkpEDaSv@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  E In article <9fnnvl$1t7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:s5 > In article <aSxPGOAeVPBX@eisner.encompasserve.org>,4? >    Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:uM >>In article <9flidf$ag0@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu . > (David Mathog) writes:8 >>> In article <y3NndjnxEqJl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, = > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:.I >>>>In article <9fl2b5$ahc$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:  >>>> eA >>>>> Ptui.  Don't people _test_ their software anymore?  You canoA >>>>> code inspect and design review until the cows come home ande >>>>> still ship crap. >>>>D >>>>Certainly people test.  In this case, they could have tested for0 >>>>54 minutes without encountering the problem. >>> M >>> Well, that's the surprising thing - it should have shown up on a call of s > one  >>> minute and 1 second. >> >>Whoops, bad math on my part. >>E >>As a previous poster said, you have to choose test cases carefully,e" >>and that means reading the code. > B > <ahem>  We usually got into trouble when we chose our test casesG > carefully. ;-) Knowing the code slants the tests.  There is a feature : > having people who don't know better play with the stuff.  < Somewhere I said that a variety of approach should be taken.  D But as for choosing test cases carefully, that _must_not_ be done byD the _developer_ of the code, since the code was written with certainD usage patterns in mind and a different mindset is required to design) tests that follow _other_ usage patterns.+  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:27:40 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <lmeuhts0ptbkkilm4g042v5o6p8smejm8r@4ax.com>  2 On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:45:17 -0400, "Brian Tillman", <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:  I >>Americans do not "NEED" cars that accelerate from 0-100 in 0.5 seconds,  >they are brainwasheduE >>into beleiving they absolutely need this, again by the advertising.n >eM >Nonsense.  Americans aren't brainwashed into anything.  They know they don'tmI >"need" them.  They just want them.  And, if they can afford it, why not?    Because the world can't?   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:24:51 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <d3euhtodn8dh7e8vkepqkaflvu956v02ae@4ax.com>  2 On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:10:59 -0400, "Brian Tillman", <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:  M >>If this fails then the government will normally fall and a general election  >isu	 >>called.> >-F >Am I ever glad our goverment won't fall if the members of the various! >branches disagree.  How fragile!   F Not really. Remember they can disagree and argue for up to a couple of? years over particular points before it comes to the crunch. ThedA government can withdraw the issue if it loses on a final vote and D doubts it will win even on a confidence vote. The point here is thatE it forces the opposing voices (normally within the governing party to 9 get to this point) to try and work out their differences.e  C The last time a government fell on a confidence issue was 1979 whenWB the then Labour govt  fell forcing  an election (only a few months early anyway).  D Also the Executive continues to hold power until after the election.0 There is no gap where the country is ungoverned. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:19:44 +0100e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?) Message-ID: <3B1F5540.43B85F24@bbc.co.uk>    Bob Koehler wrote:  ' > At 12:45 PM 6/5/2001, JF Mezei wrote:- > > Q > >That is the main problem with the United States. In a parliementary system, ifjO > >a government is elected with a majority, the prime minister has not only the Q > >mandate but also the power to represent his people and sign treaties since hisTO > >party has a majority in the house and thus has a very good chance of passinge6 > >the law that implements the treaty in that country. > >e >.B > Hm, seems to me several countries are and have experimented withH > systems where one guy is the leader and everyone just does whatever he > says.n >  > No thanks.  G So instead everyone thinks the USA is a big bad bully boy who goes backd8 on its word? Great self image, really (sarcasm implied).  L Anyway, we all know its the multinationals not the politicians that call the shorts,  surely?f    --n6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukq  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of- MedAS or the BBC.7   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:54:51 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?$ Message-ID: <3b1fa3e9$1@news.si.com>  C >   Funny how we hardly heard anything about "children in the back"r= >here in North America until airbags started killing them :-}h  L Not true.  Long before airbags were invented, everyone knew the safest place, for a child was the middle of the back seat. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comh= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventf< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2001 22:50:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?- Message-ID: <87y9r4z6lx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>N  3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:T  B > When one element of such an equation changes, the whole tends to/ > find a new point of equilibrium, does it not?h  B Yes, in time, but with a non-linear sytem, the new equilibrium may/ be bi-furcated and/or far from the current one.r   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda."@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov -   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2001 22:54:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?- Message-ID: <87u21sz6fj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.  3 nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:   < >    And then try to tow a trailer behind that small car :-)  8 Does a 36' Al hull Cray boat behind a 1220 cc car count?   -- h< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.s@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 17:55:52 +0100i0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?* Message-ID: <3B1FB218.9FBB994F@uk.sun.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:y > 7 > In article <3B1C4E27.16E3896F@videotron.ca>, JF MezeiM' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:w >  > > Robert Deininger wrote:SL > > > too low.  I simply won't buy an underpowered, uncomfortable car that I! > > > can't see out of very well.r > > O > > Why have car manufacturers had such an easy time convincing males that they  > > need an overpowered car ?y > 	 > LOL :-)  > @ > You really missed almost everything I wrote there, didn't you? > F > Underpowered is unsafe, if you can't accelerate with the rest of theK > traffic.  Tiny cars are ok for city driving, maybe.  They cause accicents-G > on highways if there is much traffic at all.  I suspect you'd like tosI > solve this by forcing all the cars to be gutless.  But there'd still bel > the trucks...d >   7 It depends on what you mean by underpowered. Almost all : American Cars I have had the great displeasure of driving 8 have had huge (by European) standards power plants. But 8 once you have kicked the Aircon in and the fact that the8 car weighs about as much as a small bus and handles the 5 same you end up with something that has acceleration t6 and handling characteristics that are pretty pathetic.  7 On the otherhand one of my collegues has a Lotus Elise,p7 1.8 Litre engine, light, handles like a dream and will e6 out accelerate almost anything that Detroit can offer.  5 If you don't want a soft-top then the Lotus Exige hasn6 a hard top and at 4.8 seconds 0-100 Kph its also quite quick.      G > I won't repeat the part about cars too small to fit into.  Very smalljH > usually goes along with very low power and rotten visibility.  For me,0 > going up a notch or two solves all 3 problems. >   9 The Elise is very small but very very fast, likewise the m Caterham 7.   5 If you don't want a sports car then the Renault Clio 73 2 Litre Sport will out accelerate most sports cars.t    L > > I do not buy arguments that you need to accelerate from 0 to 100kms in 6
 > seconds. > - > 6 seconds, no.  But 20 seconds is not safe.p > N > > A lot of fuel would be saved if men didn't feel that they needed to have a0 > > powerful car to overcome other shortcomings. > < > Or if we could harness the wind from the whining of women. >  > That's a joke, by the way. > G > > As a cyclist, I laugh at those males that try to impress females byuR > > accelerating so fast to make their tires smoke and make lots of noise. "Wow" IQ > > say, they have enough of a muscle to move their foot on teh accelerator. Whath > > sport !s > : > Nah, sport is earning 20 points for each bike we squish! >  > ;-)s >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com    --   Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architectr   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 17:15:27 GMT-1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)02 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9focrf$pe2$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>g  ) In article <3B1F5540.43B85F24@bbc.co.uk>, 0  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes: |> ' |> e |> Bob Koehler wrote:  |> u* |> > At 12:45 PM 6/5/2001, JF Mezei wrote: |> > >T |> > >That is the main problem with the United States. In a parliementary system, ifR |> > >a government is elected with a majority, the prime minister has not only theT |> > >mandate but also the power to represent his people and sign treaties since hisR |> > >party has a majority in the house and thus has a very good chance of passing9 |> > >the law that implements the treaty in that country.w |> > > |> >E |> > Hm, seems to me several countries are and have experimented withwK |> > systems where one guy is the leader and everyone just does whatever het
 |> > says. |> > |> > No thanks.c |>  J |> So instead everyone thinks the USA is a big bad bully boy who goes back; |> on its word? Great self image, really (sarcasm implied).a |> tO |> Anyway, we all know its the multinationals not the politicians that call the1
 |> shorts,
 |> surely?  D And still, people from everywhere else are willing to risk all theirF property and even their lives in attempts to come to this evil empire,D legally or not, while no one is rushing to leave here to live in any) of those much more enlightened countries.r  
 Go figure.   bill   -- EJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 10:27:14 -0700a1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)-2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <I+aIA+9YKZos@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  % In article <3b1fa3e9$1@news.si.com>, =@    "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:  D >>   Funny how we hardly heard anything about "children in the back"> >>here in North America until airbags started killing them :-} > N > Not true.  Long before airbags were invented, everyone knew the safest place. > for a child was the middle of the back seat.  @    Of course we've always known that the middle of the back seat@ was the safest place for *any* passenger, but it's only with the> advent of airbags that we're being told that the front seat is? *specifically* more dangerous for children ( and short adults )i= than for "normal" sized adults. Around here new cars now comem> with warning stickers telling you not to put kids in the front> seat, and the insurance company has been running ads promoting< "kids in the back" ( though as of yet no laws to that effect< have been enacted ). The thrust of both these initiatives is: that it is the introduction of airbags that has led to the urgency of this recommendation.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 11:46:59 +0200e* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)  Subject: [TCPIP V5.1] some rants* Message-ID: <3b1f4d93$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  N I use TCPIP V5.1-151 here (besides TCPware V5.5-3) and have a couple of rants:  8 1) TCPIP V5.1 crashed my production system twice so far.F It happened with doing a RSH command (from a TCPware V5.5-3) node _to_G this OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1 system (it does not happen with a RSH command / from another TCPIP V5.1 system to this system).a  G As I I can't no longer open a support call and I haven't reproduced thek? crashes on my test system so far, I can only warn you and rant.n" If I find out more, than I'll post  A **** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.2-1   - BUGCHECK ****   L ** Bugcheck code = 000003C4: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception< ** Crash CPU: 00    Primary CPU: 00    Active CPUs: 00000001" ** Current Process = TCPIP$INETACP ** Current PSB ID = 00000001A ** Image Name = DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]TCPIP$INETACP.EXE;1y    L 2) The TCPIP$SNMP user is defined in UAF with prio 8. A looping SNMP processO (the TCPIP$OS_MIBS did it here so far twice, once on a VAX and once on a Alpha): leads to a unusable system.t  G Is there any reason, why the priority of this processes must be as hightG as obviously the default is ? Lowering the prio to 2 - as I did - cureseK the symptoms - an unusable system - but does not solve the problem (looping. process)  > Why is the TCPIP$OS_MIBS process looping and how to find out ?M In the meantime, I've to disable the SNMP agent at all to not waste CPU time.o    J 3) TCPIP V5.x does now offer ICMP timestamps again (Early UCX versions didK them too, but delivered random values, and engineering 'solved' the problemoJ by disabling them at all). But they do not deliver UTC time (as expected),L but deliver the local time instead (which is in my case 1-2 hours different)  I So eg. a '$ TIMEDC CLOCKDIFF tcpipsystem' from another system does alwayspK deliver times with 3600xxx/7200xxx ms values (and never 'have equal time').p  G Will this bug again be 'fixed' by disabling the ICMP timestamps at all, + or can we expect a real bux fix sometimes ?a    C 4) Why are the service home directories spread in SYS$SYSDEVICE and @ SYS$SPECIFIC ? I don't see the (or any) sense in this structure.  G Eg. Why is a SNMP directory common for all cluster members booting fromiJ the same disk (it is SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$SNMP]) while the XDM dir is not?  G In my eyes, it would make much more sense to use SYS$SYSROOT for all of G these directories, so that specific (for logfiles and config files) andKG common directories (for config files and service command/login scripts)TH are possible. Do you agree and how can we 'force' engineering to agree ?    ) And so on (4 is enough for the first run)o   -- r< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888o< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 18:35:47 +0200 * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.1] some rants( Message-ID: <3b1fad63@news.kapsch.co.at>  W In article <3b1f4d93$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:w* >And so on (4 is enough for the first run)   ok, ok. a fifth one...  E 5) $ NDC RELOAD (NDC is the BIND/DNS Server Control Utility) requirestD now the BYPASS privilege (and of course no mention of this behaviour change in the relase notes).   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888h< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.314 ************************