1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 11 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 322       Contents:+ "Passive mode" with UCX/TCPIP FTP *client*? / RE: "Passive mode" with UCX/TCPIP FTP *client*? A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com , Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging ; Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging  Re: Adding a CPU RE: Adding a CPU* cancel <3B24C242.24A45E85@cableinet.co.uk> Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars. Defining DCL commands (was: The future of VMS)3 Disabling MIME sending - Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server ; Do CPQ still accept responsibility for patch kit problems ? ? Re: Do CPQ still accept responsibility for patch kit problems ? ? Re: Do CPQ still accept responsibility for patch kit problems ? ? Re: Do CPQ still accept responsibility for patch kit problems ? > DSL - FREE Modem!  FREE Installation!  NO Contract! (USA ONLY)8 Re: Global warming? was: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st Re: Hobbyist Licensing( Re: How can i set a DLT tapedrive online How to rewrite SLS in DCL  Re: How to rewrite SLS in DCL  Re: Is it just me?3 Re: making ODBC connections to rdb databases in VMS  Misuse of OpenVMS Marketing 0 Re: Mozilla 0.9 how do I save email attachments.- Multiple UCX/TCPIP name servers in a cluster?  Re: NCP counter question" Re: NCP to NCL command equivilants" RE: NCP to NCL command equivilants Re: No 7.3 yet Re: No 7.3 yet Re: No 7.3 yet Re: No 7.3 yet' Re: OpenVMS Diamond Forum in California  Re: OT - demise of ML770 Re: OT - demise of ML770 Re: PCSI niggle  Re: problem with Decwindows & Re: Problem with JUMP from FREEWARE CD) Problem with large queue lengths on disk. - Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk.  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS  RE: The future of VMS  Re: The future of VMS   Re: The future of VMS [ON TOPIC]9 Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS) 9 Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS) 9 Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS) 9 Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS) 9 Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS)  Re: UPDATE - Weblogic  RE: UPDATE - Weblogic - Re: Urgent: Oracle 8 parallel server on VMS 7 - Re: Urgent: Oracle 8 parallel server on VMS 7  V7.3 and Galaxy Training Re: VMS / NT integration Re: VMS / NT integration Re: VMS / NT integration) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:44:08 +0200 5 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de> 4 Subject: "Passive mode" with UCX/TCPIP FTP *client*?. Message-ID: <E159TrM-0000M0-00@gwdu42.gwdg.de>  ; Does any version of the UCX/TCPIP FTP client ($FTP command)  support passive ("PASV") mode?    : Even older UCX FTP servers apparently accept "quote PASV",3 but I can't find the command to tell the client ...   M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de M GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended! M http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:26:47 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> 8 Subject: RE: "Passive mode" with UCX/TCPIP FTP *client*?L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F30@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  . I suppose you've tried the obvious "passive" ?  5 I don't have a UCX FTP client handy to try right now.    Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '       > -----Original Message-----< > From: GWDVMS::MOELLER [mailto:moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de]  = > Does any version of the UCX/TCPIP FTP client ($FTP command) ! > support passive ("PASV") mode?   > < > Even older UCX FTP servers apparently accept "quote PASV",5 > but I can't find the command to tell the client ...    ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 11 Jun 01 08:29:27 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com+ Message-ID: <9g28im$6fv$4@bob.news.rcn.net>   9 In article <DrRU6.354$%f.898168@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, 8    "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: <snip>  H >Larry, you are perfectly free to use whatever communications medium youI >choose to contact Compaq (if you're really paranoid, I have some VCMX-11 I >one-time pad keys you are welcome to use). But please bear in mind that   you D >are negatively impacting the one extant mechanism for bidirectional >communications with Compaq.  = The site is doing all of the damage.  Existing customers have ? tried to make their views known but gave up when they got asked = for their kitchen sink.  Or rather, I should say ex-customers B because they got pissed off and started using other manufacturer's	 products.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:36:31 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com3 Message-ID: <PO3V6.1308$fi2.35097@news.cpqcorp.net>   $ Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ... > E >Leaks from those who have seen the secret results indicate responses D >have been the typical "noted" responses that have been provided forC >years.  That is a strong indication against getting on the mailing > >list that is run or may be run in the future by these people.  L Larry, I admit that there is a certain amount of "put out the standard line"I as a short-term response to some of the input.  I myself argued not to do J that, because it would lead people to believe that the input was not beingG taken seriously.  But it is being taken seriously as far as I can tell.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:53:35 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com; Message-ID: <PX4V6.6783$Tc.2098673@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   J <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:9g28im$6fv$4@bob.news.rcn.net...; > In article <DrRU6.354$%f.898168@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, : >    "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: > <snip> > J > >Larry, you are perfectly free to use whatever communications medium youK > >choose to contact Compaq (if you're really paranoid, I have some VCMX-11 J > >one-time pad keys you are welcome to use). But please bear in mind that > you F > >are negatively impacting the one extant mechanism for bidirectional > >communications with Compaq. > ? > The site is doing all of the damage.  Existing customers have A > tried to make their views known but gave up when they got asked ? > for their kitchen sink.  Or rather, I should say ex-customers D > because they got pissed off and started using other manufacturer's > products.   G Well, I've always been of the opinion that voting with one's feet is an L effective way to make one's views known. I don't have a problem with forkingL over the personal data the site collects (to me it doesn't rise to the level6 of kitchen-sink detail), but apparently some folks do.  F The rationale for collecting the personal information is to aid in theI analysis of issues and votes, e.g. if a significant number of respondents L are concerned about system reliability, it would be valuable to know whether, they were NSK, Tru64, VMS, or Windows users.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 11 Jun 01 08:26:26 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun + Message-ID: <9g28d1$6fv$3@bob.news.rcn.net>   , In article <3B24369E.1372043E@videotron.ca>,1    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  <snip>  J >How come DECUS USA didn't testify against Microsoft during the anti-trust	 >trials ?   C Because that suit was a joke.  There were other sins that never got @ aired in the courts that didn't have anything to do DEC products" but not a peep about those either.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:41:03 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun * Message-ID: <3B24AE4F.D8628BAB@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:  > , > In article <3B1FB970.F65A7865@uk.sun.com>,3 > andrew harrison  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote:  > > 	 > >[snip]  > > , > >Perhaps next time Rob Young or one of the. > >other OpenVMS choir members starts a thread0 > >about the Marvels of Marvel you could chip in% > >with your requests for no futures.  > > . > >As it is I don't remember you ever pointing- > >out that Rob was talking about vapour ware  > >so I will ignore your post. > >  > 4 > Setting aside this particular thread for a minute,3 > where it may or may not have been appropriate for 2 > you to bring into the discussion the performance8 > of future systems, I would like to point out that when7 > some OpenVMS user/support/advocate posts about future 7 > Alpha system performance they are, at least, on topic  > for this forum.  >   ! Really, the past posting history  . particularly in this group and from particular- posters would tend to suggest that the posts  ) can be very very missleading. (Not Terry)   1 If you want to be routinely and regularly missled . about Compaqs competitive position then fine, $ but that's the track record so far.   , Do I need to remind you of all the WildFire 3 setting the world alight, Galaxies revolutionising  1 server consolidation, Spiralog posts that turned   out to be so much hot air.       Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:38:35 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun 3 Message-ID: <LQ3V6.1309$fi2.34906@news.cpqcorp.net>   # Andrew, go take a double bit error.       B andrew harrison wrote in message <3B24AE4F.D8628BAB@uk.sun.com>... >  >Jordan Henderson wrote: >>- >> In article <3B1FB970.F65A7865@uk.sun.com>, 4 >> andrew harrison  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote: >> >
 >> >[snip] >> >- >> >Perhaps next time Rob Young or one of the / >> >other OpenVMS choir members starts a thread 1 >> >about the Marvels of Marvel you could chip in & >> >with your requests for no futures. >> >/ >> >As it is I don't remember you ever pointing . >> >out that Rob was talking about vapour ware >> >so I will ignore your post.  >> > >>5 >> Setting aside this particular thread for a minute, 4 >> where it may or may not have been appropriate for3 >> you to bring into the discussion the performance 9 >> of future systems, I would like to point out that when 8 >> some OpenVMS user/support/advocate posts about future8 >> Alpha system performance they are, at least, on topic >> for this forum. >> > ! >Really, the past posting history / >particularly in this group and from particular - >posters would tend to suggest that the posts * >can be very very missleading. (Not Terry) > 2 >If you want to be routinely and regularly missled. >about Compaqs competitive position then fine,$ >but that's the track record so far. > , >Do I need to remind you of all the WildFire3 >setting the world alight, Galaxies revolutionising 1 >server consolidation, Spiralog posts that turned  >out to be so much hot air.  >  >  >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:38:50 GMT ) From: Bob Willard <bobwbsgs@mediaone.net> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun , Message-ID: <3B24CA02.937B3FE6@mediaone.net>   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > L > >How come DECUS USA didn't testify against Microsoft during the anti-trust > >trials ?  > E > Because that suit was a joke.  There were other sins that never got B > aired in the courts that didn't have anything to do DEC products$ > but not a peep about those either.  G IMO, the real joke was that the DoJ attacked M$ for restraint of trade,   instead of restraint of quality. --   Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:56:44 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun * Message-ID: <3B24F84C.92FCE0A3@uk.sun.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >  > > > > > > > When will you stop referring to system that will come??? > > . > > Good god the cheek, remember I am replying- > > to Terrys estimates of the performance of . > > a yet to be announced, yet to be delivered > > Alpha server.  > >  > L > Would that the estimates were low (they are not) and the delivery date was > 4CQ01 or beyond (it's not).  > F > Of course, with all the thousands of SunFires now running the vastlyN > expanding dot-com world (McNealy said that in Week One the StarFire midframeK > outsold IBM, et al, hence there MUST be thousands of 'em installed and up G > and running in the field right now) there won't be any market for the  > mythical 1GHz GS320. >   B The customer I work for has 2 x 6800 installed and a further 8 on A order for delivery in the next 10 days in London, they have more  A machines installed and on order their other world-wide locations.    They are by no means unusual.   D Incedentally the only other option being considered for some of the = 8 6800's was IBM P680's so at least in this case Sun outsold   IBM.       Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:54:58 -0600 4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam># Subject: Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server 1 Message-ID: <ee4V6.595$go5.52027@news.uswest.net>   L To turn off the MIME features of Outlook Express, click Tools, Options, SendD and select the Plain Text check box at the bottom.  Click OK.  It isK considered bad form to post anything other than Plain Text except in Binary  Newsgroups.  --
 Mike Ober.  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:lcedYQ9+9lfR@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <9g0clo$c2p$1@uranium.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher"  <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m> writes:0 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > / > > ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C0F1DF.7B8B4660 ( > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;8 > > boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0023_01C0F1DF.7B8B4660" > >  > > / > > ------=_NextPart_001_0023_01C0F1DF.7B8B4660  > > Content-Type: text/plain;  > > charset="iso-8859-1"/ > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  > >  > > Hi,  > > K > > Once again sorry if you don't get attachments coz that's pretty much=20  > > all there is.  > ! > DON'T POST MIME to COMP.OS.VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:20:15 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging* Message-ID: <3B248D4F.29FA964F@uk.sun.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > ? > "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message:& > news:3B1E48C0.608D3F5E@uk.sun.com... > >  > > JF Mezei wrote:w > > >/ > > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:aN > > > > If I was King, er, Capellas For a Day, my first edict would be to find > thebM > > > > corporate graphics person responsible for the gaffe. Once said personc > wasrG > > > > found, I would sentence him or her to a day of education on thea
 > products > > > > that Compaq sells. > > >"N > > > Probably done by an outside firm. I doubt that Compaq has Macintoshes to > do& > > > serious artwork inhouse. :-) :-) > > >a > >P< > > They do. Only a MAC user could have been involved in the7 > > he famous BSOD incident where Compaqs Art dept usedeB > > a picture of a Compaq Intel box with a very nice blue colouredA > > screen with small white letters on it in a Compaq ad campaignp > > for Windows2000. > > 2 > > Or perhaps you were refering to this incident. > >s > N > No, I was referring to the VMS V73 packaging, but thanks for reminding me ofN > one of the truly classic Great Moments in Compaq Marketing Stupidity. Wish IG > had a JPEG or GIF of the BSOD, it would be a wonderful addition to myC > presentations!    8 Well it is a very nice blue !! and not being an NT user 5 means that it does not bring back unpleasant memoriess5 for me though I am sure it has a different effect on S you average NT admin.n  l Regards  Andrew HarrisonO Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 06:38:51 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) D Subject: Re: A New Twist on OpenVMS Marketing... and Media Packaging3 Message-ID: <ruzn3VT6+IWe@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  ] In article <3B248D4F.29FA964F@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:n  : > Well it is a very nice blue !! and not being an NT user 7 > means that it does not bring back unpleasant memories77 > for me though I am sure it has a different effect on e > you average NT admin.n    B With more NT experience, that blue would give you the ware feelingA of job security.  I doubt that Solaris or VMS can touch NT on themE metric of "Number of Administrators require per unit of computation".i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:05:46 -0400 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>  Subject: Re: Adding a CPU ( Message-ID: <3B24B419.26AAE517@ohio.edu>  I I believe that there is a PAK for the second CPU, but otherwise it should A be automatic.  Haven't done it lately, but that is what I recall.   #                                 RDPu     Shawn wrote:  G > I have to AlphaServer 2100's 4/200 Servers.  Both are running OpenVmst > 7.2-1. > E > One is the production server the other is the test server.  I foundoF > that in the Test Server there are 2 CPU Boards and in the production > server there is only 1.f >SF > Also looking in the production server I have found an avaliable slot > for a 2nd CPU Board. >-H > If I were to take the 2nd CPU out of the test server and put it in theD > production server, is there anything that I need to do at the BootD > Level or OpenVMS level to let the server know I have added the 2nd > CPU. >e > Thanks >v > Shawnu   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:49:45 +0100 - From: Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk>- Subject: RE: Adding a CPU-Q Message-ID: <0262A6086BFBD411959500508B69C5EA134708@london_exch.london.csf.co.uk>.  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F26C.9C31E800u Content-Type: text/plain;? 	charset="iso-8859-1"P  : AFAIK, moving SMP licenses bet. machines is NOT permitted.  E To quote from "Easy Access - Software Licensing Guide to Upgrades and- Migrations" (Feb-98)...s  I "An SMP license must be used in conjunction with a Base License.  One SMP E Extension license is required for each SMP (board) Extension.  An SMP-K license must remain with the first Base license to which it is attached. ItuE cannot be moved to a different system (and Base license), even if theu applicable SMP board is moved."X   So, that's the rules!s  ( If course, it may be out of date by now.   -----Original Message-----B From: nothome@spammers.are.scum [mailto:nothome@spammers.are.scum] Sent: 08 June 2001 19:25 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Adding a CPU,    1 In article <3b2109a6.80321416@news.starnet.net>, r"    sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn) writes:  H > If I were to take the 2nd CPU out of the test server and put it in theD > production server, is there anything that I need to do at the BootD > Level or OpenVMS level to let the server know I have added the 2nd > CPU.  F    The server will automatically know about the second CPU board. You C will need to load an SMP license on the production server to enable-E the second CPU ( you should have one of these from the test server ).mE The PAK will say something like "ASERVER xxxx SMP" at the top and thew/ product name in the data will be OPENVMS-ALPHA.$  E    This is what is technically required, I don't know what is legallynG required to transfer the second CPU license between servers, or if it's>G even permitted. It seems reasonable to me that you should be allowed toyI do this. You're not gaining anything, just moving around resources you've1G already paid for - but "reasonable" is not necessarily a word I'd applyh" to Compaq's licensing policies :-)        A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be  F legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. B The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this F email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact the  help desk on (+44)(0)870 8704820' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F26C.9C31E800  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"e+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">o <HTML> <HEAD>H <XETA HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8= 859-1"> H <XETA NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653= 12"> <TITLE>RE: Adding a CPU</TITLE>l </HEAD>r <BODY>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>AFAIK, moving SMP licenses bet. machines is NOT permi= tted.</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>To quote from &quot;Easy Access - Software Licensing =9 Guide to Upgrades and Migrations&quot; (Feb-98)...</FONT>n </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&quot;An SMP license must be used in conjunction with=H  a Base License.&nbsp; One SMP Extension license is required for each S=H MP (board) Extension.&nbsp; An SMP license must remain with the first B=H ase license to which it is attached. It cannot be moved to a different =H system (and Base license), even if the applicable SMP board is moved.&q= uot;</FONT></P>m  . <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>So, that's the rules!</FONT> </P>  A <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If course, it may be out of date by now.</FONT>c </P>  3 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: nothome@spammers.are.scum [<A HREF=3D"mailto:n=F othome@spammers.are.scum">mailto:nothome@spammers.are.scum</A>]</FONT>2 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: 08 June 2001 19:25</FONT>3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>a3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: Adding a CPU</FONT>e </P> <BR>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In article &lt;3b2109a6.80321416@news.starnet.net&gt;=	 , </FONT>nF <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn) writes:</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; If I were to take the 2nd CPU out of the test se= rver and put it in the</FONT> H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; production server, is there anything that I nee= d to do at the Boot</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Level or OpenVMS level to let the server know I=  have added the 2nd</FONT># <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; CPU.</FONT>s </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The server will automatically know about="  the second CPU board. You </FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>will need to load an SMP license on the production s= erver to enable</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the second CPU ( you should have one of these from t= he test server ).</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The PAK will say something like &quot;ASERVER xxxx S=" MP&quot; at the top and the</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>product name in the data will be OPENVMS-ALPHA.</FON= T> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; This is what is technically required, I =! don't know what is legally</FONT>aH <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>required to transfer the second CPU license between = servers, or if it's</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>even permitted. It seems reasonable to me that you s= hould be allowed to</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>do this. You're not gaining anything, just moving ar= ound resources you've</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>already paid for - but &quot;reasonable&quot; is not=$  necessarily a word I'd apply</FONT>< <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to Compaq's licensing policies :-)</FONT> </P>   </BODY>- </HTML>-  H <HTML><BODY><P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Arial" size=3D2>This e-mai=H l including any attachments is confidential and may be <BR>legally priv=H ileged. If you have received it in error please advise the<BR>sender im=H mediately by return email and then delete it from your <BR>system. <BR>=H The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this <BR>e=H mail is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact the<B=7 R>help desk on (+44)(0)870 8704820</FONT></BODY></HTML>i) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F26C.9C31E800--    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:11:10 GMTa3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>r3 Subject: cancel <3B24C242.24A45E85@cableinet.co.uk>e9 Message-ID: <Or3V6.36948$Uy2.4104631@news1.cableinet.net>p  / This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:21:02 +0100e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>' Subject: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars * Message-ID: <3B24A99E.CA73B978@uk.sun.com>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >  > Well > F > Compaq will rethink their strategy and dont give much more attention9 > to the Intel line and turning to Alph....... iPaq ! ! !b > H > Compaq want to become  a wireless company !  I believe they should buyK > a telco equipment company. They are trying to buy a Services company, buttJ > I dont know if this will work fine, because I am not sure if they manage
 > datacentersp& > with IBM, Sun, HP or Dell machines ! >   : They do run datacenters with non Compaq equipment in them.  ; In my experience they don't do it at all well. Digital used 8 to make a pretty good job of running a fairly large Sun : infrastructure for one of the companies I work with, since: they became part of Compaq the service has gone down hill < very badly and this particular company is moving to another  vendor.   M > HP is much more complete than Compaq, because they offer the whole solution 5 > to the customers.  From Servers, PCs, and Printers.a >   > Siemens is much more complete. > 	 > And....>K > The great problem of Sun is: they dont have penetration to the "end-user" 	 > market.i > Imagine if they buy Palm.com.b > 	 > Regards  >  > FC > @ > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> em 08/06/2001 15:34:42 > ; > Favor responder a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s >  >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI > ) > Assunto: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Warsa >  > John Eisenschmidt wrote: > >u) > > Did everyone catch this announcement?a > >r5 > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/19554.htmlr > I > This was announced some time ago during some analysts briefing. What isn > says- > essentially is that Compaq cannot raise itss" > design/construction/distributionH > efficiency any higher and thus can't lower prices. HP also announced a	 > similara > policy this week.  > J > Note that other PC manufacturers have announced similar measures to stop > thesL > bleeding. I beleive that only DELL is in a position where it can drive the	 > market.a   -- e Andrew Harrisonh Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 07:44:07 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)i' Subject: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars 3 Message-ID: <ual9E6uCKP7f@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <11gU6.1591$Tc.303560@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:0 >  >>J >> Remember Packard-Bell?  They "won" the price wars and lost the survival >> war.a >> > J > But imagine a commodity 32P Itanium machine. That would screw the entire# > enterprise server contingent, no?S >   : 	Yes, and deliciously that is Wintel's worst nightmare and: 	they are heading towards that night-night beddy-by horror 	story.   : 	Our good friend Mike Magee had an Intel insider state why= 	it is Wintel's (maybe Intel's more than the Win part ) worstt? 	nightmare.  The magic number isn't 32, the magic number is 42.   ! http://213.219.40.69/21050114.htm-  L When it comes to Chip, and Chimp 'zillas, the Grail of computing, namely theE clustered supercomputer, is both an an ultimate answer, and a path to:L perdition. If you hooked up 42 state of the art processors to a cluster, youJ could likely attend to the computing requirements of 98% of corporations /* government ministries / home enthusiasts.   D Unfortunately, each participant in their transition would drop theirL organization out of the current high-churning short cycle of retail computer2 purchasing driven by incremental CPU development.   @ 	So bring it on!  Perhaps someone will convince the soccer Mom's@ 	of America that they should track every waking moment of littleA 	Jimmy and Suzie's day THEREBY increasing computing demand enoughi1 	to churn more Wintel product.  I don't think so.   F 	Tangentially, Mikey Dell seems to think his next big area for Dell toE 	conquer is storage.  The Friday Wall Street Journal (6/8/01) had an yH 	in-depth story about Dell and how they go about squeezing the industry 6 	with direct order, pricing and now razor thin marginsC 	upping their market share and unit numbers , basically maintaining : 	profit and gaining another foot in the door of corporate.  % 	Dell does the same thing to storage?b  @ 	Mikey has a BIG problem.  Here is part of it.  On (6/8) I heardA 	this statement shouted over the cube to another (re: storage):   F 	"Is long term cache hits a good thing?"  We have folks struggling to E 	understand *Enterprise* storage (emphasis on Enterprise).  The hope cG 	here is that somehow the Dellization of storage will make it simple to5C 	understand and somehow simple to support.  I agree with the formero@ 	(simple to understand) somewhat as storage pools are headed our@ 	way.  But the easy to support may be a long time coming as eachE 	OS has driver issues and whatnot.  Heck, a certain hopkington based -A 	vendor of storage was/is interested how the hook-up of a certainmF 	Unix is going (very interested actually) , that tells me they either G 	don't have a whole lot of them OR it is a first.  But the Dellization rD 	of storage isn't going to happen over the next year.  It's going to@ 	take longer than that and that high-growth engine Dell hopes toE 	keep fed with storage is a pipedream.  Oh, how is Dell at Enterprise2E 	support?  Sheesh, what do they know at all about Unix?   Is the hopeFA 	that Windows 2000 takes over the world next year the impetus for" 	Mikey's dreaming?   				Rob:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:24:56 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ' Subject: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price WarsM( Message-ID: <9g2uo3$e1l$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ual9E6uCKP7f@eisner.encompasserve.org...j   ...:  J > When it comes to Chip, and Chimp 'zillas, the Grail of computing, namely theAG > clustered supercomputer, is both an an ultimate answer, and a path toaJ > perdition. If you hooked up 42 state of the art processors to a cluster, you.L > could likely attend to the computing requirements of 98% of corporations /+ > government ministries / home enthusiasts.i > F > Unfortunately, each participant in their transition would drop theirE > organization out of the current high-churning short cycle of retails computer3 > purchasing driven by incremental CPU development.   B Only if the transition also involves a switch from desktop-centricL applications to server-centric applications (so that the desktops can remainF far more stable in the face of software evolution - especially bloat).= Otherwise, those desktop sales will just keep churning along.e  H And I wouldn't think that Intel (or Microsoft) would be all that worriedE about eroding its *current* position in mid-to-high-end server sales.    ...i  G > Tangentially, Mikey Dell seems to think his next big area for Dell to E > conquer is storage.  The Friday Wall Street Journal (6/8/01) had annH > in-depth story about Dell and how they go about squeezing the industry7 > with direct order, pricing and now razor thin marginslD > upping their market share and unit numbers , basically maintaining; > profit and gaining another foot in the door of corporate.s >t& > Dell does the same thing to storage?  J Well, somebody's going to.  You can buy a nice 2U rack-mountable box todayK that holds 9 front-mounted hot-swap 3.5" drive bays (and a motherboard, PCI-K riser, power supply, etc. to make use of them), and build high-density (360gK GB/U; 15 TB/rack) storage for about twice the cost of the raw IDE drives inaD it (i.e., a factor of 30 to 50 cheaper than current high-end storageI offerings).  All you need is the software to make it high-performance ands; highly-available and switches to get it to where it's used.a   >tA > Mikey has a BIG problem.  Here is part of it.  On (6/8) I heardm@ > this statement shouted over the cube to another (re: storage):F > "Is long term cache hits a good thing?"  We have folks struggling toE > understand *Enterprise* storage (emphasis on Enterprise).  The hopeMH > here is that somehow the Dellization of storage will make it simple toD > understand and somehow simple to support.  I agree with the formerA > (simple to understand) somewhat as storage pools are headed ouroA > way.  But the easy to support may be a long time coming as eacho# > OS has driver issues and whatnot.   J A handful of people can write the drivers for any OSs that count.  And theF availability of such solutions will just further marginalize the rest.  "   Heck, a certain hopkington basedB > vendor of storage was/is interested how the hook-up of a certainF > Unix is going (very interested actually) , that tells me they eitherG > don't have a whole lot of them OR it is a first.  But the DellizationdE > of storage isn't going to happen over the next year.  It's going tonA > take longer than that and that high-growth engine Dell hopes to F > keep fed with storage is a pipedream.  Oh, how is Dell at Enterprise8 > support?  Sheesh, what do they know at all about Unix?  L How good is Seagate at Enterprise support, and what do they know about Unix?K It doesn't matter:  when you sell commodity storage, it's the OS vendor who= supports the customer.   - bill      Is the hopeB > that Windows 2000 takes over the world next year the impetus for > Mikey's dreaming?  >  > RobC >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:26:25 -0400r+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>e' Subject: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars # Message-ID: <sb24c70c.025@aaas.org>k  J I agree. Death to desktops. I thought Citrix had it with those graphical =J Winterminals, but we all see how well that went. I dream of a Flat panel =G attached to a chasis with a CD-RW and a Zip drive, that net boots and =mJ loads the OS/ETC. Why do companies keep dumping millions and millions of =H dollars into PCs that get 10% usage in their life? I used to work at a =2 Blue shop that had some green screens 13 years.=20  H The problem is that anything like that will require another revolution =C (Mainframe to Mini, Mini to Micro, etc). I'm all for a Micro-Mini =e revolution. Who's with me?  ? >>> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 06/11/2001 1:24:56 PM >>>   8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ual9E6uCKP7f@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ..  J > When it comes to Chip, and Chimp 'zillas, the Grail of computing, namely thesG > clustered supercomputer, is both an an ultimate answer, and a path to-J > perdition. If you hooked up 42 state of the art processors to a cluster, youJL > could likely attend to the computing requirements of 98% of corporations = /t+ > government ministries / home enthusiasts.  >sF > Unfortunately, each participant in their transition would drop theirE > organization out of the current high-churning short cycle of retaili computer3 > purchasing driven by incremental CPU development.e  B Only if the transition also involves a switch from desktop-centricG applications to server-centric applications (so that the desktops can =S remainF far more stable in the face of software evolution - especially bloat).= Otherwise, those desktop sales will just keep churning along.i  H And I wouldn't think that Intel (or Microsoft) would be all that worriedE about eroding its *current* position in mid-to-high-end server sales.t   ..  G > Tangentially, Mikey Dell seems to think his next big area for Dell torE > conquer is storage.  The Friday Wall Street Journal (6/8/01) had anlH > in-depth story about Dell and how they go about squeezing the industry7 > with direct order, pricing and now razor thin marginssD > upping their market share and unit numbers , basically maintaining; > profit and gaining another foot in the door of corporate.a >n& > Dell does the same thing to storage?  J Well, somebody's going to.  You can buy a nice 2U rack-mountable box todayI that holds 9 front-mounted hot-swap 3.5" drive bays (and a motherboard, =n PCIyH riser, power supply, etc. to make use of them), and build high-density = (360J GB/U; 15 TB/rack) storage for about twice the cost of the raw IDE drives = inD it (i.e., a factor of 30 to 50 cheaper than current high-end storageI offerings).  All you need is the software to make it high-performance andD; highly-available and switches to get it to where it's used.n   >eA > Mikey has a BIG problem.  Here is part of it.  On (6/8) I hearde@ > this statement shouted over the cube to another (re: storage):F > "Is long term cache hits a good thing?"  We have folks struggling toE > understand *Enterprise* storage (emphasis on Enterprise).  The hope>H > here is that somehow the Dellization of storage will make it simple toD > understand and somehow simple to support.  I agree with the formerA > (simple to understand) somewhat as storage pools are headed ournA > way.  But the easy to support may be a long time coming as eachd# > OS has driver issues and whatnot.b  J A handful of people can write the drivers for any OSs that count.  And theF availability of such solutions will just further marginalize the rest.  "   Heck, a certain hopkington basedB > vendor of storage was/is interested how the hook-up of a certainF > Unix is going (very interested actually) , that tells me they eitherG > don't have a whole lot of them OR it is a first.  But the Dellization E > of storage isn't going to happen over the next year.  It's going to:A > take longer than that and that high-growth engine Dell hopes to<F > keep fed with storage is a pipedream.  Oh, how is Dell at Enterprise8 > support?  Sheesh, what do they know at all about Unix?  H How good is Seagate at Enterprise support, and what do they know about = Unix?tI It doesn't matter:  when you sell commodity storage, it's the OS vendor =b whob supports the customer.   - bill      Is the hopeB > that Windows 2000 takes over the world next year the impetus for > Mikey's dreaming?  >t > RobT >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:50:18 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br2' Subject: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price WarseL Message-ID: <OF805C54A6.75F0F267-ON03256A68.00615774@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Try Sun's SunRay  ! ! !>  ? The desktop cannot die in the offices because they are becoming 
 communication<G  and production centers. I see the networked desktop as an evolution oft	 telephoneeI equipments. But instead of voice you can send voice, image, files etc ... I It is crazy to think in the death of desktops in the offices. Probably we 	 dont neednJ complex multimidia interfaces  or high capacity HDs in desktops inside the
 companies.J But at home  ? In places where there are not phone lines to internet.  You are in USA andH Europe. But in Latin America and other parts of the world is common dont	 have this> kind of resources.G Of course Desktops will not die. They can evolute to "notebook like" orN "subnotebook like"3 desktops. Or NCs desktops - ONLY FOR THE COMPANIES.   K Imagine if SAP develop their SAP GUI under Linux + C++ and a company launcha
 a SAP NC ?) It will work fine for companies with SAP.   E But I would like of course a new "Graphical Windowed Terminal"  under 5 OpenVMS. Would be from Citrix ? Java  ? Sun ? Amiga ?2   Regardss   FC        < John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org> em 11/06/2001 14:26:25  7 Favor responder a John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi      ' Assunto: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Warsf    H I agree. Death to desktops. I thought Citrix had it with those graphicalH Winterminals, but we all see how well that went. I dream of a Flat panelK attached to a chasis with a CD-RW and a Zip drive, that net boots and loadsfJ the OS/ETC. Why do companies keep dumping millions and millions of dollarsH into PCs that get 10% usage in their life? I used to work at a Blue shop% that had some green screens 13 years.-  F The problem is that anything like that will require another revolutionA (Mainframe to Mini, Mini to Micro, etc). I'm all for a Micro-Minic revolution. Who's with me?  ? >>> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 06/11/2001 1:24:56 PM >>>d  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ual9E6uCKP7f@eisner.encompasserve.org...n   .h  J > When it comes to Chip, and Chimp 'zillas, the Grail of computing, namely thegG > clustered supercomputer, is both an an ultimate answer, and a path tobJ > perdition. If you hooked up 42 state of the art processors to a cluster, you J > could likely attend to the computing requirements of 98% of corporations / + > government ministries / home enthusiasts.  >bF > Unfortunately, each participant in their transition would drop theirE > organization out of the current high-churning short cycle of retaila computer3 > purchasing driven by incremental CPU development.u  B Only if the transition also involves a switch from desktop-centricE applications to server-centric applications (so that the desktops canD remainF far more stable in the face of software evolution - especially bloat).= Otherwise, those desktop sales will just keep churning along.   H And I wouldn't think that Intel (or Microsoft) would be all that worriedE about eroding its *current* position in mid-to-high-end server sales.e   .   G > Tangentially, Mikey Dell seems to think his next big area for Dell toeE > conquer is storage.  The Friday Wall Street Journal (6/8/01) had an H > in-depth story about Dell and how they go about squeezing the industry7 > with direct order, pricing and now razor thin marginsbD > upping their market share and unit numbers , basically maintaining; > profit and gaining another foot in the door of corporate.< >e& > Dell does the same thing to storage?  J Well, somebody's going to.  You can buy a nice 2U rack-mountable box todayK that holds 9 front-mounted hot-swap 3.5" drive bays (and a motherboard, PCI K riser, power supply, etc. to make use of them), and build high-density (360nK GB/U; 15 TB/rack) storage for about twice the cost of the raw IDE drives intD it (i.e., a factor of 30 to 50 cheaper than current high-end storageI offerings).  All you need is the software to make it high-performance andd; highly-available and switches to get it to where it's used.C   >fA > Mikey has a BIG problem.  Here is part of it.  On (6/8) I heardg@ > this statement shouted over the cube to another (re: storage):F > "Is long term cache hits a good thing?"  We have folks struggling toE > understand *Enterprise* storage (emphasis on Enterprise).  The hopeoH > here is that somehow the Dellization of storage will make it simple toD > understand and somehow simple to support.  I agree with the formerA > (simple to understand) somewhat as storage pools are headed ournA > way.  But the easy to support may be a long time coming as each-# > OS has driver issues and whatnot.l  J A handful of people can write the drivers for any OSs that count.  And theF availability of such solutions will just further marginalize the rest.  "   Heck, a certain hopkington basedB > vendor of storage was/is interested how the hook-up of a certainF > Unix is going (very interested actually) , that tells me they eitherG > don't have a whole lot of them OR it is a first.  But the Dellization E > of storage isn't going to happen over the next year.  It's going to2A > take longer than that and that high-growth engine Dell hopes toaF > keep fed with storage is a pipedream.  Oh, how is Dell at Enterprise8 > support?  Sheesh, what do they know at all about Unix?  F How good is Seagate at Enterprise support, and what do they know about Unix?iK It doesn't matter:  when you sell commodity storage, it's the OS vendor whot supports the customer.   - bill      Is the hopeB > that Windows 2000 takes over the world next year the impetus for > Mikey's dreaming?h >u > Robh >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:59:27 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i' Subject: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Warse, Message-ID: <3B2506FE.34851E9F@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:N >         keep fed with storage is a pipedream.  Oh, how is Dell at EnterpriseN >         support?  Sheesh, what do they know at all about Unix?   Is the hopeJ >         that Windows 2000 takes over the world next year the impetus for >         Mikey's dreaming?u  H Doesn't Dell have a good relationship with IBM for worldwide support andM service ? If so, then I would content that as the "PC" arm of IBM, Dell is in I a better position than Compaq because like it or not, IBM has much betterpF image of quality for support and service than Compaq. IBM is a serious company, Compaq is a box maker./  M If that realtionship still exists, I wouldn't be surprised if Dell repackaged"M IBM storage products and used its marketing and distribution to reach marketsn IBM wouldn't reach.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:17:45 +0100o- From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@sema.co.uk>n7 Subject: Defining DCL commands (was: The future of VMS)o= Message-ID: <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE01529001@REAES2>o  < From: goathunter@goatley.com [mailto:goathunter@goatley.com]   > 6 >On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:00:49 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"% ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:i >n* >>Geez, why not just  $ define dcl$path [] >>G >>Gets you UNIX-like automatic invokation of foreign images and commandv files.K >>And since it's a search path, you can make it as broad or confined as youn >>want.e >>F >True.  Of course, the original statement was about creating DCL-styleG >qualifiers, and Brian's CLIFLAGS(FOREIGN) CLD file didn't address thato >at all. >ED >There are still valid reasons for using that, though, just to avoid symbols.G >One is that DCL$PATH doesn't exist in older versions of VMS.  Also, ifM you'reJ >managing a system and want users to be able to define their own DCL$PATH, but1F >still have command XXX, this is a way to do it that doesn't rely on a logicalt >or symbol definition. >D >Hunter$ >------i  H There is another reason to be wary about the use of DCL$PATH. There is aG strange anomaly about the way DCL$PATH works, that I have seen me a fewCH times. If defined, and an unknown command is entered, then DCL will lookI to see if there is a .COM or .EXE in the DCL$SEARCH directory path searchII list. However if there is, it does not simply run what it finds - rather, K it passes the original command back to the file system, to see what to run.n  F This is in my opinion a bug, as it is clearly in violation of what theF documented behaviour is. To quote from section 14.14 of the VMS user's Manual..  I |However, if the logical name DCL$PATH is defined (and is not blank), DCLUG |instead performs an RMS $SEARCH for any file that contains the invalidtJ |verb in its file name and DCL$PATH:.* as the default file specification.  |aK |If DCL finds a .COM or .EXE file, DCL will automatically execute that filetG |with the rest of the command line as its parameters. (This behavior is D |similar to the PATH options found in DOS, UNIX, and other operating
 systems.)   G It does not automatically execute 'that file' - rather it re-parses theg command.  K This has unexpected results, if anybody creates a logical name that matches L a foreign command. It checks that there is a file with that name in the path& then runs a completely different file.  F I once had a logical name called 'SYMBOL' (don't ask!) and there was a packageeJ called SYMBOL in the path. Whenever I tried calling the SYMBOL command, itI barfed, as it found there was a command in DCL$PATH to obey, but instead,g triede3 to run a mailbox that SYMBOL was pointing to. Ouch!m  K I am a sadder and a wiser man now, and do not repeat this. However there ism noJ way to prevent users from creating there own logical names which can clash withF commands we supply - especially as we are always advising users to use logicalsG names where possible instead of hard-coding filenames. This problem hase arisen a couple of times since.  J The ideal answer is for the DCL$PATH command to do exactly what it says on the J tin. In the meantime beware that strange unexpected things can happen with	 DCL$PATH.     -- Cheers, John  F  - Note  This message represents my opinions and nothing else, not theI   opinion of SEMA, my family, or the cricket club - though my dog Meg dideE   nod in agreement whilst I was typing. If you have any problems thentD   please complain to her (or me, but not SEMA, my family or the CC).        K ___________________________________________________________________________sB This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the H individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are E solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of e Sema. M If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received thiseI email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or u- copying of this email is strictly prohibited.d  B If you have received this email in error please notify the Sema UK. Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600.K ___________________________________________________________________________n   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 11:24:35 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)p< Subject: Disabling MIME sending - Re: $QIO and TCP/IP server3 Message-ID: <lENMRBUGMpu3@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  1 In article <ee4V6.595$go5.52027@news.uswest.net>,y6 "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> writes:N > To turn off the MIME features of Outlook Express, click Tools, Options, SendF > and select the Plain Text check box at the bottom.  Click OK.  It isM > considered bad form to post anything other than Plain Text except in Binaryr
 > Newsgroups.c  I You must also uncheck the option to respond in same format as original as-G this setting overrides the setting that you mentioned.  The default forr1 Outlook is to respond in same format as original.   I Not only that, on some versions of Outlook, it appears that if you do notsL uncheck that option, all subsequent replys that you make to the same mailingI list or newsgroup will be in HTML, after you reply to one, until you exite the program completely.?  L It has also been reported that if you use Word as the editor for messages in4 outlook that it will force the output to be in HTML.   -Johnu Personal Opinion Onlyi wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:34:57 GMT B From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>D Subject: Do CPQ still accept responsibility for patch kit problems ?6 Message-ID: <RV2V6.3674$pb1.135114@www.newsranger.com>  = The following is in the latest TCP/IP patch kit announcement:s  C |        Release Notes for COMPAQ TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.0Ae |        Update ECO 3u |2 |        DISCLAIMERc |oI |        COMPAQ makes no claims regarding the use or performance of these I |        software ECOs. COMPAQ accepts no responsibility for any incurred J |        expenses, losses, or problems related to the installation and use |        of this software.J |        COMPAQ provides no warranties either expressed or implied in law,H |        including IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR |        A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.C |        In no event shall COMPAQ have any liability for damages as I |        a result of the performance, use, or operation of this software.tE |        The customer shall have the sole responsibility for adequatenE |        protection and back-up of data used in conjunction with this J |        update kit. ECOs in this kit are cumulative. All previous updates3 |        for Version 5.0A are included in this kit.t  J Seeing a disclaimer this strong in a patch kit announcement is a cause forL concern. Is there something about this patch kit that has made CPQ decide toJ add this ? [It's not in the later LMF patch announcement. It's also not in7 any of the other patch announcements that I have kept.]t  K I am hoping that this is just some lawyer's addition and not the start of alI move to shifting the balance of integration/testing work to the customer.   F I don't expect to see this in a patch kit targeted at enterprise levelI systems. Following on from my previous postings, there is little point inkJ proving that a patch kit came from CPQ, if you can't hold them responsible for it's contents.   Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPrK Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:41:00 +0100s  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comH Subject: Re: Do CPQ still accept responsibility for patch kit problems ?H Message-ID: <OF1EEF5B0F.270F604A-ON80256A68.00451E5F@qedi.quintiles.com>  K I would take it that it is a sign of the litigeous (sp?) times that we live I in where companies and individuals will quickly raise a lawsuit against agG supplier etc whether the event is actually the supplier's fault or not.a  @ Looking at a Digital patch for DQS (circa 1995 or 1997) it has :@ "This ECO has not been through an exhaustive field test process.= Due to the experimental stage of this ECO/workaround, Digital ? makes no representations regarding its use or performance.  The C customer shall have the sole responsibility for adequate protectione? and back-up data used in conjunction with this ECO/workaround."r  + Which equates to the same thing in my mind.a   Steve. Simon Clubley wrote: >>>a <trim>J |        COMPAQ provides no warranties either expressed or implied in law,H |        including IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR |        A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.C |        In no event shall COMPAQ have any liability for damages asfI |        a result of the performance, use, or operation of this software. E |        The customer shall have the sole responsibility for adequateEE |        protection and back-up of data used in conjunction with thistJ |        update kit. ECOs in this kit are cumulative. All previous updates3 |        for Version 5.0A are included in this kit.n  J Seeing a disclaimer this strong in a patch kit announcement is a cause forI concern. Is there something about this patch kit that has made CPQ decide1 toJ add this ? [It's not in the later LMF patch announcement. It's also not in7 any of the other patch announcements that I have kept.]O  K I am hoping that this is just some lawyer's addition and not the start of aeI move to shifting the balance of integration/testing work to the customer.   F I don't expect to see this in a patch kit targeted at enterprise levelI systems. Following on from my previous postings, there is little point ineJ proving that a patch kit came from CPQ, if you can't hold them responsible for it's contents. <<<o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:53:56 GMT & From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>H Subject: Re: Do CPQ still accept responsibility for patch kit problems ?? Message-ID: <Eb3V6.449000$fs3.72303531@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>a  I I saw that disclaimer too, and decided I didn't need to apply that patch,tJ and I too thought it must be some lawyers handiwork.  I know the next timeG we have a TCP/IP problem Compaq will tell us to apply the latest patch,xK whether it addresses the problem or not, but I would be hesitant to apply ah$ patch with such a strong disclaimer.    G "Simon Clubley" <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> wrote ina8 message news:RV2V6.3674$pb1.135114@www.newsranger.com...? > The following is in the latest TCP/IP patch kit announcement:n > E > |        Release Notes for COMPAQ TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.0A. > |        Update ECO 3C > |  > |        DISCLAIMER  > |gK > |        COMPAQ makes no claims regarding the use or performance of theseiK > |        software ECOs. COMPAQ accepts no responsibility for any incurred L > |        expenses, losses, or problems related to the installation and use > |        of this software.L > |        COMPAQ provides no warranties either expressed or implied in law,J > |        including IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR  > |        A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.E > |        In no event shall COMPAQ have any liability for damages ascK > |        a result of the performance, use, or operation of this software.bG > |        The customer shall have the sole responsibility for adequatecG > |        protection and back-up of data used in conjunction with thisoL > |        update kit. ECOs in this kit are cumulative. All previous updates5 > |        for Version 5.0A are included in this kit.a >nL > Seeing a disclaimer this strong in a patch kit announcement is a cause forK > concern. Is there something about this patch kit that has made CPQ decider toL > add this ? [It's not in the later LMF patch announcement. It's also not in9 > any of the other patch announcements that I have kept.]o >oK > I am hoping that this is just some lawyer's addition and not the start off atK > move to shifting the balance of integration/testing work to the customer.i >hH > I don't expect to see this in a patch kit targeted at enterprise levelK > systems. Following on from my previous postings, there is little point inlL > proving that a patch kit came from CPQ, if you can't hold them responsible > for it's contents. >  > Simon. >g > --= > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFPtK > Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler businesss ?  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:04:48 GMTtB From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>H Subject: Re: Do CPQ still accept responsibility for patch kit problems ?6 Message-ID: <Pl3V6.3742$pb1.136617@www.newsranger.com>  . On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:41:00 +0100, in article= <OF1EEF5B0F.270F604A-ON80256A68.00451E5F@qedi.quintiles.com>, ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:e >dL >I would take it that it is a sign of the litigeous (sp?) times that we liveJ >in where companies and individuals will quickly raise a lawsuit against aH >supplier etc whether the event is actually the supplier's fault or not. >eA >Looking at a Digital patch for DQS (circa 1995 or 1997) it has :uA >"This ECO has not been through an exhaustive field test process.0> >Due to the experimental stage of this ECO/workaround, Digital@ >makes no representations regarding its use or performance.  TheD >customer shall have the sole responsibility for adequate protection@ >and back-up data used in conjunction with this ECO/workaround." >e, >Which equates to the same thing in my mind. >e >Steve.   J I've just checked the release notes for some patch kits I've installed andJ something similiar is in there as well. [In recent years, I've worked fromK the patch kit announcements and not the release notes, as the announcementsmL are very detailed and are (obviously) already available to work from without$ you having to get another document.]  I So what happens if a patch kit causes problems and you don't notice for asF couple of weeks until after you have put it into production because itK didn't show up during testing ? (Say, for example, a problem in a RMS patchf kit that is timing related.)  , I wonder if you could hold CPQ responsible ?   Simon.   -- i; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP K Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:52:00 GMT  From: <foidsajoi@yahoo.com>tG Subject: DSL - FREE Modem!  FREE Installation!  NO Contract! (USA ONLY)p- Message-ID: <Q93V6.11696$u4.22505@news.rt.ru>   3 DSL - FREE Modem!  FREE Installation!  NO Contract!t* Surf The Web 100 Times Faster Than Dialup! Special Promotional Offer!O (http://www.jeffs-dsl.com-cgi-bin.lnk8.js@affiliate-site.alturl.com/?dealer345)m   Surf Up to 100 Times Faster!  ] You don't know how unhappy you are with it until you try surfing the net in Dsl Time. No morer\ waiting for the Web to load graphics and text at painfully slow speeds. No more tying up the` phone line or requiring a second costly phone line! Discover a brand new internet full of music,6 video, and games! You gotta check it out.  Get it now!O (http://www.jeffs-dsl.com-cgi-bin.lnk8.js@affiliate-site.alturl.com/?dealer345)g   Always-On Connection!w  ^ No more waiting around forever while your computer makes all those funny noises as it dials in` to the Net. With Dsl's superfast service, you can have an always-on connection or simply connect` in a flash. Just open your browser and start surfing. No more busy signals, either. You can even^ surf while you're on the phone! You get unlimited connection time for one low, monthly fee, so[ you can shop, chat, or just window shop the Web as long as you want, with no extra phone ort access charges. Get it now! O (http://www.jeffs-dsl.com-cgi-bin.lnk8.js@affiliate-site.alturl.com/?dealer345)   # High-Speed Gives You A New Internett  X >From video conferencing to world-wide radio, the future is now with high-speed internet` >access from us. With our high-speed DSL connection, you can chat by video cam with your friends_ >and family or tune in webcasts of entertainment and business events. You can even listen to anD7 >opera in Paris or dance music from London. Get it now!rO (http://www.jeffs-dsl.com-cgi-bin.lnk8.js@affiliate-site.alturl.com/?dealer345)   " It's Actually Cheaper Than Dialup!  ^ When you factor in the cost of your current Internet Service Provider ($21.95) and the cost of] a second phone line ($30.00), both of which you will no longer need, it's actually cheaper toa@ surf the net at DSL speed! Now that's a No-Brainer! Get it now! O (http://www.jeffs-dsl.com-cgi-bin.lnk8.js@affiliate-site.alturl.com/?dealer345)q   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:49:45 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comaA Subject: Re: Global warming? was: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ stDD Message-ID: <OFFD51CFF8.D019371A-ON88256A68.0061E49B@foundation.com>  ) At least we have an excuse. What's yours?    Shanee   P.S. ;-)          4 Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> on 06/09/2001 01:17:16 AM  , Please respond to Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   B Subject:  Re: Global warming? was: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ st    > In article <3B1F89E4.8AB70366@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn wrote:/ > From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms G > Subject: Re: Global warming? was: Re: (OT) Current Microsoft v DOJ stI' > Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:04:20 +0100s >l >u >h > Bill Todd wrote: > J > > A study by the National Academy of Sciences (commissioned by the WhiteK > > House) was released (I think) just today.  It stated unequivocally thatoI > > global warming was real and that human activity was a major causativelK > > factor.  Not that this is likely to convince those who still have theirC2 > > heads stuck firmly in the sand (or elsewhere). > >n >n# > Some people like being ostriches.eI > Of course, you could blame it all on the water floridation programme...C  & You mean chad infested water? Eek! :-)  - > Then again, us Brits have the lead pipes...i   Could explain a lot... ___a	 Paul Sures Switzerland    ------------------------------  , Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:53:27 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> Subject: Re: Hobbyist LicensingeI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106111736400.1770-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>I  $ On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   >+Michael Austin wrote:  [...]e >+> $SET FLAME/ENABLE=HOTnJ >+> This really should not be this difficult. If they are using an outsideJ >+> vendor to process the enrollments, they should be fired if they cannot >+> do the job.o >+> $SET FLAME/DISABLE >+L >+The Montagar folks have done a tremendous job in my opinion. But they wereM >+told to accept only DECUS members, so they had to implement that. And sincewP >+DECUS is in shambles on a wordldide basis with all sorts of different splinterP >+groups and no unified name anymore, and probably half the chapters that existsJ >+only on paper (or with just plush board meetings without any services to7 >+members), it makes the Hobbyist programm much harder.     Will second you.hC  Althought my request for DECUS membership (have expressed the facte? that have interest with the "Hobbyist" license program) are not$7 intensive (one request 2 Oct 2000, second some days agos= 5 Jun, no response yet, both to DECUS Europe) the problem is m known to me.@  In the previous mail exchange have get request for registrationE on the DECUS page - but have (first time) get reqest for registrationr= on WWW page: have fill the registration form before 1'st mail_< but I cannot check the registration (and will avoid multiple registration).  N >+I had made a proposal to Compaq to have a web-based worldwide VMS user groupP >+that would cater to those people who live in an area without an active "DECUS"M >+user group and it, as one of the services, would have provided members withiP >+access to the Hobbyist programme. Unfortunatly, the marketing manager is underP >+the impression that Encompass is sufficeint to serve the world and turned down >+the proposal.h  0  Umhm... Can you inform me, who is the manager ?=  Will ask personally where a person from Poland can get DECUS_0 membership :) excepting migration :> of course !    Regards - Gotfryd   -- -E =====================================================================eF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEe. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:09:53 GMTf3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>d1 Subject: Re: How can i set a DLT tapedrive onlineo/ Message-ID: <3B24C242.24A45E85@cableinet.co.uk>s   Alphaman wrote:a > G > Just guessing, but might you consider doing a "Set MagTape /NoUnload"p? > before-hand?  Not sure if that will work if the process dies.r   Nah, the way to do it is:t   $ on error then goto exit:  $ on severe_error then goto exit .... tape processing herea $exit: $ dismount/nounload tape $ exit  H you see, by default when the process dies the tape is dismounted/unload.   regardsa   >  > Just a thought,r > Aaronb > --@ > Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html@ > Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org/J > "It's a funny thing about life. If you refuse to accept anything but the0 > best, you often get it." (W. Somerset Maugham) > 4 > Salvi Schrijen <salvi@freeler.nl> wrote in message9 > news:9fpt3f$hl8$1@Snowflake_Obsidian.lion-access.net..._
 > > Hi there,a > >FD > > I was wondering if it is possible to set a DLT tapedrive (with a > > tapecartridge in), online.M > > For instance if a user process is killed before completing the backupjob,nG > > the remaining DLT drive will dismount and unload the tapecartridge.nH > > With True64 on a Alphaserver you can put a unloaded DLT drive online > again. > >oM > > Is there any "utility" or freeware or trick within OpenVMS to do the sameP	 > > job??n > >p, > > best regards and thanks for any response > > Salvi Schrijen > > Libertel-Vodafonel > > salvi.schrijen@libertel.nl > >w > >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 05:45:50 -0700: From: franz.folly@ba-ca.group-treasury.co.at (frank foley)" Subject: How to rewrite SLS in DCL= Message-ID: <2fe08a77.0106110445.115f0c01@posting.google.com>i  B We want to replace SLS by DCL, maybe with Oracle as Tape Database.1 (VMS 7.3 Alpha, TL810 Tape Roboter, Oracle 8.0.5)h Did anyone do this before ?i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:39:09 GMTt; From: "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here.please@home.com>u& Subject: Re: How to rewrite SLS in DCL< Message-ID: <1S3V6.129744$Ub.1541337@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>  K What is the business problem you're trying to solve here?   Are you gettingoE rid of SLS for financial reasons or technical reasons?  I would guesstL financial since DCL is free, however, you're re-inventing a really big wheelJ here.....  there are plenty of other solutions out there without having to start from scratch.a  G "frank foley" <franz.folly@ba-ca.group-treasury.co.at> wrote in message 7 news:2fe08a77.0106110445.115f0c01@posting.google.com... D > We want to replace SLS by DCL, maybe with Oracle as Tape Database.3 > (VMS 7.3 Alpha, TL810 Tape Roboter, Oracle 8.0.5)  > Did anyone do this before ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:17:27 +0100i  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: Is it just me?rH Message-ID: <OF4BF32696.33DC9797-ON80256A68.00433CCC@qedi.quintiles.com>  H Last I saw it was fine for US residents but not as much help as it might have been for non-US residents. ) How are the moves to overcome this going?l   Steve.   Warren Sander commented:' >Watch the OpenVMS estore.. coming soonE   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:58:13 -0400s- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>a< Subject: Re: making ODBC connections to rdb databases in VMS- Message-ID: <3B24C065.4AE6A75C@bellsouth.net>e  ( SQL*Net only works with 7.0.1 and later.  D Use the Oracle Rdb ODBC driver and you should not have any problems.6 Start SQLServices and connect using your VMS password.   Works Great.   Michael Austin' Rdb DBA Consultant  -- Do you need one?r   Abdullah wrote:f  
 > Morning; >uG > Well, there is alot of services that do this to you;As i do remember:aH > 1. you can use the Oracle SQL-Services system which supports an Oracle > ODBCF > Driver for RDB in the clients applications; and creates a dispatcher	 > processMD > to multiible connections from clients, beside the monitoring tools >iG > 2. You can find an SQL-net Protocol that connects to an RDB database;A > as( > Oracle says so,but i havent test that; >MH > 3. you can use a third-party software which runs as client-server such > as:,G > ISG (attunity connect Software) which support multipile connectors tolE > RDB,ORACLE RDBMS, or Even DataFiles, as theres is alot of documents 
 > you have/ > to read, but its really a wonderfull softwaret > check : www.attunity.com >v > Hope this can help youC > Please Send me for any more information, i will try to check mores	 > Regardsp
 > Abdullah( > System Manager- Internet Administrator > NEPCO-JORDAN > +962 79 917143 >  >  > ----- Original Message -----2 > From: "Nivlesh Chandra" <NChandra001@itc.gov.fj> > To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>p% > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:05 AM : > Subject: making ODBC connections to rdb databases in VMS >t >s@ > > I have a Oracle Rdb v6 database on a Alpha system. I want to > interface to > itH > > with Microsoft Access from my desktop. Thus I would like to use ODBC > for.H > > this. Can someone help me and tell me as to how I can go about doing > this?p& > > Your help will be most appreciated > >m > > Nivb   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:12:40 -0300,) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bro$ Subject: Misuse of OpenVMS MarketingL Message-ID: <OFF94A8204.278876C2-ON03256A68.00589B6F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  > Compaq has an ad in an important newspaper in Brazil (O Globo)  
 It is saying:c  * "Money moves the world. We move the money"   And it is saying:   : "The High Availabily solutions from Compaq are responsible? for 95 % of the financial transactions in the World in securitytB environments. like for example credit cards, funds transfer, stock% exchange, and blah, blah, blah (...)"e  * But the advertisment dont mention OPENVMS.  4 So, Compaq can use the fame of OpenVMS to sell other/ products. If you dont know Compaq by OpenVMS orw9 Kernel Non Stop, you will think first in Proliant Servers  runnin Windows NT.....   It is a shame of ad.     Regards   
 Fabio Cardoso    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:00:04 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n9 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9 how do I save email attachments.e8 Message-ID: <aei9itgpv4nvf38sktj0u7a14gg8a3m8im@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 15 May 2001 10:01:30 GMT, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>s wrote:   >Alan Greig wrote: >dC >> Maybe I'm missing something incredibly obvious but how do I saveuI >> attachments in mail?. Supposedly you click on the paperclip icon but IRH >> don't see a paperclip icon on messages with attachments. Nor do I seeF >> the hexified version displayed. I know Mozilla downloads the entireI >> message (from time taken) but it doesn't seem to do anything with it..i >yJ >When you are viewing the message, there should be a paperclip icon in theC >top right of the message header area (the grey area where it shows K >Subject, From, Date, and To). The icon has a number; this is the number of I >attachments. You click on the icon and you get a popup showing a list ofeI >attachment names. Each name is a rollover which has an "open" and "save"d >option.   Colin, s  C I've just downloaded Mozilla 0.91 and attachments on mail served upn1 from a ccmail IMAP server are working fine again..  C However a very, very, very basic feature seems broken. If I fire uptF Mozilla and let it go to its home page www.mozilla.org then hit CTRL-LF to enter a new URL the browser freezes for a few seconds then I get an@ ACCVIO in NSFILESTREAMS Open line 38304 followed by a DECThreadsC bugcheck Reason: lckHandoff: not owner. The same thing happens if IcC attempt to type the URL directly into the URL display at the top of.C the screen. If I select FILE => OPEN WEB LOCATION (or CTRL-SHIFT-L)c/ then I can type in a URL into the dialogue box.   C In 0.9 and earlier Mozilla would occasionally ignore a CTRL-L press-C but would never crash and typing in the URL directly always worked. @ Just wondering if you are aware of this or am I seeing something unusual J >Do you see the message header area? And there's nothing in the top right?   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:31:50 +020015 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de>>6 Subject: Multiple UCX/TCPIP name servers in a cluster?. Message-ID: <E159TfS-00052i-00@gwdu42.gwdg.de>  6 I just learned that UCX V4 can have not more than one 8 "BIND"/DNS name server in a VMS cluster, independent of 6 name server type (the installation on whose behalf I'm- asking, could do with redundant secondaries).   8 From scanning TCPIP$STARTUP.COM on a nearby system with 8 TCPIP V5.0A installed, it seems that the restriction is < still present there ... with the documentation still silent  about this point.   4 Only TCPIP V5.1 documentation seems to tell me that > multiple "BIND" servers within a cluster are a possibility ...  3 So, is my idea correct that TCPIP V5.1 is required  : in order to have multiple "BIND" servers within a cluster?  : Thanks in advance for hints, observations, war stories ...  M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.decM GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended!dM http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:58:51 GMTs& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>! Subject: Re: NCP counter questionn? Message-ID: <fg3V6.449007$fs3.72306424@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>o  E You might want to zero your counters and continue to watch.  You haveoJ reached the timer limit (65534 seconds).  From your display we cannot tellB if these errors have occurred over the past 18 hours or 18 months.  2 "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message) news:ti4ovm9pm8ua48@corp.supernews.com... L > I support a VAX 4500 running OpenVMS 6.2 with Decnet phase 4, UCX v4.2 and > LAT. > ! > $ mcr ncp show known line countS >N > gives the following output.... > Line = ISA-0 > ) >       >65534  Seconds since last zeroed $ >      1251483  Data blocks received) >       949453  Multicast blocks received! >            0  Receive failurei >    120744315  Bytes received( >     84810051  Multicast bytes received >            0  Data overrun  >       102533  Data blocks sent% >         9207  Multicast blocks sentr0 >           84  Blocks sent, multiple collisions- >          132  Blocks sent, single collisionh/ >          649  Blocks sent, initially deferred  >     80364475  Bytes sent$ >      1670383  Multicast bytes sent >            0  Send failure. >            0  Collision detect check failure. >            6  Unrecognized frame destination) >          217  System buffer unavailablef' >            0  User buffer unavailablee >n. > Note 217 System buffer unavailable messages. >pH > Question:  What do I need to tweek to fix this, is it cause for worry? >f > Thanks in advanceb > --
 > Keith Browni > kbrown780@isd.neta >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 08:25:15 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: NCP to NCL command equivilantse3 Message-ID: <OBfvUO9V1QBs@eisner.encompasserve.org>s   In article <rdeininger-0806012358450001@user-2ive75t.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:wL > There's also the x-windows interface to NCL, which can be told to spit out2 > ncl command corresponding to whatever you click.   Where?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinga   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:31:13 -0500c0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>+ Subject: RE: NCP to NCL command equivilantsoC Message-ID: <MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHGECLEMAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>y  
 I'll repost..f  & To display corresponding NCL commands:   $ mcr net$mgmt  K When X-windows interface appears, go to Options, Default Actions and select5K the box [] display ncl commands.  This will display the NCL commands on the D terminal session from where you executed the $ mcr net$mgmt command.         -----Original Message-----4 From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]# Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 8:25 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh+ Subject: Re: NCP to NCL command equivilantss    L In article <rdeininger-0806012358450001@user-2ive75t.dialup.mindspring.com>,4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:L > There's also the x-windows interface to NCL, which can be told to spit out2 > ncl command corresponding to whatever you click.   Where?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouprE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:56:45 -0600u4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> Subject: Re: No 7.3 yet 1 Message-ID: <ee4V6.596$go5.52141@news.uswest.net>   A We got our 7.3 kit last Thursday as part of our quarterly update.a --
 Mike Ober.  7 "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com> wrote in messageu5 news:TWTU6.12567$tb6.4245365@typhoon.austin.rr.com...oG > So should I be starting to worry?  Take my club and wander amonst theB othervD > buildings looking for it?  Think they hijacked it for the CD case? >l > --H > Jay E. Morris, System Software Specialist, Epidemiological Laboratory, Brooks	 > AFB, TXrB > Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.: > Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/ >0   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jun 2001 17:04:15 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com>E Subject: Re: No 7.3 yeta. Message-ID: <3b24fa3b@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  G No, you are not the only one.  We are waiting for it at a couple sites.    --
 Bill Pederseno CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learning 
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  7 "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com> wrote in messageb5 news:TWTU6.12567$tb6.4245365@typhoon.austin.rr.com... G > So should I be starting to worry?  Take my club and wander amonst the  othersD > buildings looking for it?  Think they hijacked it for the CD case? >  > --H > Jay E. Morris, System Software Specialist, Epidemiological Laboratory, Brooks	 > AFB, TXeB > Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.: > Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/ >h   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jun 2001 17:18:20 GMT% From: "Paul Dembry" <pade@trifox.com>d Subject: Re: No 7.3 yetn0 Message-ID: <9g2ugs$8vk@dispatch.concentric.net>   Just received ours in NoCal.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:23:42 -0300() From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn Subject: Re: No 7.3 yetrL Message-ID: <OF68C793C4.CB8C87B9-ON03256A68.005F5EEE@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  F The last version I asked Compaq to sent to me was V 7.2-1H1 because itD is homologated with EMC EDM. V 7.3 ? I am not sure if I will upgrade becausew8 I dont know the real improvments for a Alphaserver 4100.H This version looks like more commited to GS servers. At least, if Oracle released@ RDB 7.1 should be interesting becauso of the lock managment  new improvmentsi
 and features.s   Regardse   FC        > "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> em 11/06/2001 14:04:15  9 Favor responder a "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com>p             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come       Assunto: Re: No 7.3 yet     G No, you are not the only one.  We are waiting for it at a couple sites.=   --
 Bill Pedersen= CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive LearningG
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  7 "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com> wrote in messagep5 news:TWTU6.12567$tb6.4245365@typhoon.austin.rr.com...=G > So should I be starting to worry?  Take my club and wander amonst theo otheruD > buildings looking for it?  Think they hijacked it for the CD case? >d > --H > Jay E. Morris, System Software Specialist, Epidemiological Laboratory, Brooks	 > AFB, TXkB > Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.: > Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/ >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:31:19 -0400r2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Diamond Forum in California3 Message-ID: <nS2V6.1300$fi2.35047@news.cpqcorp.net>p   Updated Agenda     Compaq's OpenVMS Diamond Forum Compaq Customer Centre Silicon Valley& 10600 Ridgeview Court  Building CAC13 Cupertino, CA  95014      
 June 26, 20011   Agenda    0   8:00              Sign-in and buffet breakfast  &   8:35              Welcome to Compaq!  =                        Jim Burdick, Director ~ Western Regiong  4   8:45              OpenVMS Strategies and Direction  K                                 Rich Marcello, VP and General Manager, Highe Performance Systemso  %   9:45             eBusiness Strategyp  G                                 Wendy Herman, OpenVMS eBusiness Managerp  , 10:30             Swiss Stock Exchange Video  " 10:45                        Break  : 11:00             AlphaServer Product Update and Direction  K                                                 Cathy Stockwell, Manager  ~e% AlphaServer Technology Communicationsh  J 12:00                        Lunch & Topic:  Mission Critical Services - A
 Case Study  2 12:45                        Security and Networks  8                         Dave Raymond ~ FBI Special Agent  9   1:45              OpenVMS SAN for eBusiness Integrationl  H                                 Karen Fay, Enterprise Storage Consultant  /   2:45                        Customer Dialoguen  #   3:00                        CloseS    = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message - news:rjvT6.1122$fi2.29367@news.cpqcorp.net...s > Dear Newsgroup,- >-H > Attached is an invitation to the Diamond Forum in California.  I think thatG > I have gotten anything that might be microsoft out of the invitation.LH > Please keep in mind that this is a high level session, not a technicalL > session.  Rich Marcello will be the keynote.  The next message will be theC > agenda.  Please keep in mind that Dale Howard the contact  my newt
 supervisor > and be kind ;;.) >v > Sue' >r, > __________________________________________$ > Come to the OpenVMS Diamond Forum! >eI > You are invited to join an exclusive audience to hear about the "Futurea- > Directions and Strategy of Compaq OpenVMS".2 >8 > Compaq Customer Center >n' > 10600 Ridgeview Court  Building CAC13S >  > Cupertino, California  95014 >b >. > G > Beginning with breakfast, this event will share business strategy andbC > product plans, and re-introduce OpenVMS customers to the exciting1D > developments and long-term commitment to this recognized leader inJ > available, scaleable environments.  Here you will be afforded the uniqueJ > opportunity to meet with Compaq OpenVMS Management to ask questions that& > will assist you in your IT planning. >o >r >h > Tuesday, June 26th, 2001 >l > 8 a.m. - 3 p.m.n >n, > As seating is limited, please R.S.V.P. to: >g" > Dale Howard at (603-884-7300) or >- > dale.howard@compaq.com >: >1 >0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:00:38 +0100D% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ! Subject: Re: OT - demise of ML770s8 Message-ID: <oum9it0vqtldsjj62ktahab3tui0r12b85@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:36:31 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:     > L >I would venture to "guess" that CPQ had fewer than 20 revenue ships of thisG >box. Unisys was damn near giving away seed systems, folks just weren'tr >buying.  D Yet according to Eric Doyle in this week's Computer Weekly Unisys asA just reported that it has sold 370 ES7000s over the past 6 monthsvC against projected sales of 150. Apparently the "majority configuredr for Windows Datacenter"n  < Hmm maybe Unisys are counting the boxes they sold to Compaq?   >fJ >A four-pack of ProLiant 8x00 systems costs >30 percent less than a 32-wayL >ML770 cost. Plus, the ML770 had I/0 and scaling issues that put some of the >older DEC boxes to shame. > J >No matter. CPQ's working on its own McKinley 32-way that'll incorporate aK >bunch of WildFire technology. Should be a nice piece of work when it comes $ >out (Intel willing) late next year. >o   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:37:46 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: OT - demise of ML770y; Message-ID: <ut6V6.6802$Tc.2130653@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>7  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:oum9it0vqtldsjj62ktahab3tui0r12b85@4ax.com...6 > On Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:36:31 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"$ > <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: >t >s > >dI > >I would venture to "guess" that CPQ had fewer than 20 revenue ships ofs thisI > >box. Unisys was damn near giving away seed systems, folks just weren't.
 > >buying. >iF > Yet according to Eric Doyle in this week's Computer Weekly Unisys asC > just reported that it has sold 370 ES7000s over the past 6 monthsiE > against projected sales of 150. Apparently the "majority configured  > for Windows Datacenter"r > > > Hmm maybe Unisys are counting the boxes they sold to Compaq? >r  K My guess (and it is just a guess, of course) is that they're counting everymI system they've built. I doubt that all 370 or whatever are revenue ships.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:11:29 GMTa8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) Subject: Re: PCSI niggle3 Message-ID: <lk4V6.1312$fi2.35363@news.cpqcorp.net>n  \ In article <87lmn2vajx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: >.H >One small detail with PCSI, it asks if you want the defaults, THEN asks> >if you want to see them. Could this order be reversed please?  E I assume "niggle" means something minor.  In any case, I'll pass thisv) along to the developers, but no promises.m  G Ir you say YES to "all the defaults" and also say YES to "want to see", F then the "all the defaults" question repeats, so you CAN get things in9 the order you request -- it just takes an extra responce.c  A ..in fact, you can "loop" through these question as many times as 	 you wish.M   --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA:H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:25:03 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o$ Subject: Re: problem with Decwindows3 Message-ID: <8E3V6.1307$fi2.35177@news.cpqcorp.net>   E                                     I M P O R T A N T   M E S S A G En  I for anyone upgrading from V7.1-* to V7.2-1 who has an ELSA graphics card.S  ; Early support kits for the ELSA added a record to the file:   .                 SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT   This record is identified by:o  @             device = "ELSA GLoria (Permedia P2/Powerstorm 4D10T)  = And will be preceded by a line that indicates it was added by0 SHIP$DRIVER_INSTALL.COMi  B DELETE THIS RECORD from the "device" to the "end_device" statement (inclusive).  L The NOVECTOR in this record causes the interrupt vector to not be connected,J and you will see thousands of ERRORLOG entries for a unexpected interrupt.  J This ONLY effects systems with an ELSA Gloria card, which was supported byK the 4D10T patch kit, and is UPGRADED to V7.2-*.  If support was provided byeJ any other means, or V7.2-* is installed from scratch, there is no problem, and no action to take.  9 The command: SEARCH SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT "ELSA" . will confirm the presence of the bogus record.  I If you have already upgraded, and are seeing the problem, boot the system J interactive, and at the SYSBOOT prompt set USER_P1 to "MIN".  Log in afterH boot, and edit or rename SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT.  Reboot the system and theG problem should now be gone.  If you have 3rd party (non Compaq supplied H drivers) devices, you will want to only remove the ELSA record from this file.      >GA >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messageC. >news:iP7U6.1242$fi2.31797@news.cpqcorp.net...J >> We are in the process of debugging this right now.  This ONLY occurs onK >> systems that have been UPGRADED from a previous version of VMS.  A cleanaJ >> installs of V7.2-1 work fine, the driver from both the upgrade, and theJ >> clean install are the same.  For some unknown reason, the SCB vector is >not0 >> getting written during driver initialization. >>& >> So far, only 4100's have seen this. >> >>= >> Koloth wrote in message <3B207B10.BCEE7953@tmisnet.com>...uD >> >Are there any errors showing up in the error log like unexpected >interruptss >> ory% >> >bug checks with a buc check of 0?I >> >C >> >We are experiencing some problems with 4100s.  When we start ups >Decwindowss >> the# >> >error formater ERRFMT goes wildiK >> >because it is logging thousands of errors.  It would be helpful to knowe >ifg+ >> >anyone else experienced this problem on  >> >Alphas other than 4100.n >> > >> >Regardsw >> > >> >Cass Witkowski >> > >> >> >> >< >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:38:22 +010012 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk>/ Subject: Re: Problem with JUMP from FREEWARE CDD. Message-ID: <3B24BBBD.3FFC7218@CCAgroup.co.uk>   Bob Kaplow wrote:a > @ > Has any one used JUMP from the OpenVMS Freeware (thanks Hoff!)  ? Yes, we use it successfully on Alpha 7.1, installed as follows:f  ! DISK$CLUSTER:<CLUSTER.SYSEXE>.EXEp5    JUMP;4           Open          Prv            Acnti&         Entry access count         = 1*         Current / Maximum shared   = 0 / 1<         Privileges = CMKRNL CMEXEC SYSNAM IMPERSONATE SYSPRV  " (impersonate was formerly detach).   Causes of ss$_nopriv exit:H 1. Lack of one of the above 5 privs. Are you installed with these privs,H using the installed copy OK (directory aliases can sometimes prevent use of an installed image). 3 2. A disallowed jump (audited in JUMP_AUDIT_TRAIL /vF sys$manager:jump_audit.dat). Note the other reply about requiring exec mode logical names.a? 3. JUMP-F-MUSTAUDIT. Unprivileged users trying to use /noaudit. / 4. JUMP-F-RESTRICT. Restricted/captive account. % 5. JUMP-F-DISABLED. Disabled account.   D The last three all write a log message to sys$output (which could beF overwritten on a terminal if you're unlucky) - try defining sys$output; (or pas$output) to be sure of capturing whatever's written.6? A failure to write to the audit file would get you a crash withn %PAS-F-whatever.C It should be possible to distinguish which of the above 5 cases youa have.m  B I've done some work on jump for my own purposes, and emailed it toE Jonathan Ridler, but I've had no response. If the above doesn't help,oF and the author can't or won't respond, I use Pascal & would be willing% to help, if you give me more details.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:43:14 +0000s  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com2 Subject: Problem with large queue lengths on disk./ Message-ID: <00256A68.004B5EA5.00@quegw01.btyp>n   cc:d bcc:L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  ) Problem with large queue lengths on disk.n     We have the following setup;  P Alpha 8400 with OpenVMS 7.2-1 and disks on an ESA10000 behind HSZ70's. The disksO are mirrored - pairs - on the controller, and form a shadow set on the node [in - this particular case a single device shadow].r  N We have a situation where we are getting consistent queue lengths of over 5500O on one specific disk. There is no noticable IO activity on the device, althoughuO I suspect I shouldn't be surprised at that. I can do a directory search,edit ortN other activity without any apparent loss of response. I'm unsure how to removeL this queueing activity, or should I just leave it and see if it sorts itselfL out? This situation has been ongoing at least for the whole of this morning,O possibly longer although I haven't yet had the opportunity to go back and look.l  M We have reset the controllers but to no avail. I am trying to avoid a reboot.a   Any suggestions?   Steve Spires OpenVMS Systems Managerv
 Yell Group     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:58:24 -0400 ( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>6 Subject: Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk.+ Message-ID: <3B24EAA0.F0752D12@bigfoot.com>a  L More than likely, you DO NOT HAVE queues of the magnitude you claim (or moreM precisely, that MONITOR claims).  There is s bug in the MONITOR utility whichaS incorrectly reports abnormally high I/O queue lengths. There is a patch which takes>T care of it, but I can't remember which one.  I have applied the patch before, and itN did seem to work, but subsequent to that, I think another patch that I appliedS (later version) undid it again, and I didn't bother to inquire which patch would beiR needed further to undo the undoing patch. If you have performance advisor running,1 it will report the correct queue lengths for you.t   HM  ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:p   > cc:j > bcc:N > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza >r+ > Problem with large queue lengths on disk.  >j > We have the following setup; >3R > Alpha 8400 with OpenVMS 7.2-1 and disks on an ESA10000 behind HSZ70's. The disksQ > are mirrored - pairs - on the controller, and form a shadow set on the node [inL/ > this particular case a single device shadow].= > P > We have a situation where we are getting consistent queue lengths of over 5500Q > on one specific disk. There is no noticable IO activity on the device, although Q > I suspect I shouldn't be surprised at that. I can do a directory search,edit or P > other activity without any apparent loss of response. I'm unsure how to removeN > this queueing activity, or should I just leave it and see if it sorts itselfN > out? This situation has been ongoing at least for the whole of this morning,Q > possibly longer although I haven't yet had the opportunity to go back and look.m >PO > We have reset the controllers but to no avail. I am trying to avoid a reboot.@ >p > Any suggestions? >  > Steve Spires > OpenVMS Systems Manager- > Yell Group >- > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beN > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenR > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or > use this transmission. >7N > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notJ > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisH > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >e > Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:54:24 +0200s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>4 Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <3B246B20.A8AB6758@infopuls.com>   JF Mezei wrote:i >  > Christof Brass wrote: H > > > Now consider that Cs operations on unsigned and signed numbers areL > > > most like very different math numeric types, then you have to say that8 > > > as a result, C is less well suited for these apps. > @ > > I'm the last person voting for C. But if we look at a properB > > defined language like Ada or Pascal we don't have this type of > > problem. > O > Just because a language provides the ability to do certain "dangerous" thingsiP > does not mean that you must use them. Yeah, I've had my share of problems withG > C, but overall, I find C to be versatile, capable of string and math.d  ; The standard answer: you could program in a proper way with ? every sufficient powerful language but the  better designed the-@ language is the easier the task to write good programs. Having a7 clean mathematical model for numerical purposes greatlyo simplifies the task.  G > When I started to work on VMS, I hired a summer student and we ported O > applications (actually rewrote them) that used to run on an IBM mainframe. WeiM > used COBOL for the reports (because its report generator is well suited forgP > that) and wrote C routines to do the fancy stuff that would have been too much7 > of a hassle to do in Cobol. And it worked quite well.  > F > Personally, I feel that any programmer should know how to program inO > assembler. (IBM 360 is a good one to learn IMO). Once you know assembler, youH; > can better understand what the compiler is doing for you.r  7 In a good CS education you would learn how to constructn? compilers. That is much more helpful than studying any existingV= instruction set. You normally use virtual machines as targets = and learn the differences between stack and register machines  and other aspects.  > I read several books about assembly programming and found them9 close to be useless even before I attended a course aboutM' compiler construction, then I knew why.   J > As far as the signed/unsigned stuff in C, I agree that usually is a painN > (especially since the default is signed character, a concept which isn't tooF > logical). In general, I only use unsigned numbers when I know that I > absolutely must. > M > Obviously, if you give a C compiler to a Windows weenie, obviously you will J > have problems because it is doubtful that the person will understand theL > difference between signed and unsigned. But then again if you hire WindowsP > weenies, it is your responsibility to set coding standards for the company and$ > make sure that they abide by them.  5 Mastering assembly language is nothing compared to SWt< construction in the large. And I for one made the experience> that *all* assembly language (written manually) is a local and@ not very systematically fix for either a bad compiler or a wrong
 architecture.   > I wonder how many people write RISC assembly language manually% today and achieve acceptable results.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:04:35 +0010u% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aug Subject: Re: The future of VMS5 Message-ID: <01K4NGG5FK02001DLP@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>d  ? >I wonder how many people write RISC assembly language manuallyn& >today and achieve acceptable results.   I would suggest VAXman for one.   J I would hope all the people who write the back ends for the compilers for O another large group.  (Does this sentence mean that VAXman is a large group :-)n  M Outside these, you're probably right -- few.  But, I don't think it detracts pQ from JFs comment about knowing assembler.  I learnt many Fortran "techniques" by  P understanding IBM, CDC and VAX assembler, though I've never had a need to write J it.  RISC *is* (to me) a different story, and benchmarking code is easier K (benchmarking was always used though, since change of instructions did not oK necessarily show the efficiency).  I have been amazed at how RISC compiled c9 routines often make "bad" numerical practices run faster.2   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development, 
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australia    Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,o; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:34:46 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: The future of VMS0 Message-ID: <009FD5C9.124CB1E3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <3B246B20.A8AB6758@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:
 >{...snip...}, >e? >I wonder how many people write RISC assembly language manuallyC& >today and achieve acceptable results.  ! You're asking two questions here.a  H 1) I wonder how many people write RISC assembly language manually today?  ; All of them. :)  How many people write HLL code manually?         7 2) I wonder how many people achieve acceptable results?u  H I do.  The code assembles, links and does what it was written to do.  In my eyes, that's acceptable.  7    G Do I write wholesale systems in M64?  NO!  When there has been a clear iG need to manipulate the instruction flow and/or the stack in ways that aiG compiler cannot or that the calling standard or the architecture do not"G encompass, I resort to Macro64.  For example, code to intercept a mode-tG of-caller system service is written in M64.  It requires a modificationsG of the instruction flow -- replacement of machine instructions -- and a.H program counter relative linkage pointer.  Another injects code into theH context of another process for execution (like an AST but without all ofH the synchronization restrictions of an AST).  The stack must be accessedH to be preserved and restored as well as nearly all of the process's reg-H ister context.  Find me a HLL which will permit me to do these functions# and I will cease writing M64 code. t  I What is acceptable, for me, is that all of the above can be accomplished.-I If your reference to acceptable was meant to mean acceptable performance,nI I have coded with that in mind.  Many of the things I've needed to inter-sJ cept (mode-of-caller SS and various system routines) are called frequentlyI and need to be "hooked" carefully such as not to interfere with operationOK of VMS nor add any perceptible performance degradation.  A careful study ofoK the Alpha ARM helps to fulfill this requirement.  For example, all forms of J the jump instruction can transfer execution to another location in the in-J struction stream, a careful analysis of which form (JMP, JSR, RET, JSR_Co-@ routine) to use is important when it comes to branch prediction.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             yO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:36:20 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)p Subject: Re: The future of VMS0 Message-ID: <009FD5C9.4A09DB67@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ] In article <01K4NGG5FK02001DLP@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:r@ >>I wonder how many people write RISC assembly language manually' >>today and achieve acceptable results.@ >s  >I would suggest VAXman for one. > K >I would hope all the people who write the back ends for the compilers for oP >another large group.  (Does this sentence mean that VAXman is a large group :-)  E Phew!  I would hope not.  I'm trying to keep the waistline *in line*!O   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi            rO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.D   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 08:10:18 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)R Subject: Re: The future of VMS3 Message-ID: <yw15GgGH99dD@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  X In article <3B214A9A.11332C34@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > / > I learned that FORTRAN does't offer recursivea > functions/procedures?t  B You're about 10 years out of date.  Fortran 90 includes recursion.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationn= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouppE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinga   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jun 2001 13:39:11 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t Subject: Re: The future of VMS, Message-ID: <9g2hlv$2nct$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  $ In article <3b211679$1@news.si.com>,>  "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:- |> >Our environment is mainly Fortran (numbereM |> >crunching, and I'm old, or so I'm told).  We employ younger staff for thep+ |> >whizz-bang GUI stuff written in C et alY |> rL |> I've never seen anyting written in C (or Pascal, or PL/I, or..., with theF |> exception of, maybe, Ada) that couldn't also be written in Fortran.   The Unix Operating System??t   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:00:49 -0400w5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o Subject: Re: The future of VMS3 Message-ID: <B94V6.1311$fi2.35282@news.cpqcorp.net>E  ( Geez, why not just  $ define dcl$path []  L Gets you UNIX-like automatic invokation of foreign images and command files.I And since it's a search path, you can make it as broad or confined as you> want.>      G Hunter Goatley wrote in message <3b21764f.24563400@news.process.com>...aH >On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 23:53:48 +0200, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote: >u >>Brian Tillman wrote: >>> D >>> >What I would like to see is a tool which automatically converts@ >>> >the command line interface of foreign programs to a CLD/VMS >>> >style interface.f >>> E >>> It's a simple thing to produce.  Use the following as a template:K >>>T >>> DEFINE VERB foreign 5 >>>     IMAGE foreigndir:foreign, CLIFLAGS( FOREIGN )  >>@ >>I don't understand this. Will this provide all the options and? >>parameter conditions automatically that I could run the imageT >>like any other VMS image?f >e> >No, it just lets you define a real command to invoke an image@ >you normally have to define a foreign symbol for.  There's more? >to implementing DCL-style /QUALIFIERS than that.  I've done ita> >for several utilities, most notably ZIP and UNZIP.  It can beC >ridiculously easy to do, and it can be extremely tricky, dependinge, >on what the underlying application expects. >T@ >The trick I used was to parse the DCL command line and create aB >new argv[] array that consists of all the equivalent UNIX commandC >options.  This new argv[] array gets returned to the main routine. 7 >The code underneath doesn't have to change, other thant! >adding a call to the DCL parser.p > 0 >>BTW, on my VMS 6.2 there is no DEFINE VERB :-( >r? >DEFINE VERB is recognized by the command SET COMMAND xxxx.CLD.w@ >What Brian gave above is a simple .CLD file that will eliminate >the need for a foreign symbol.  >e >Hunterj >------y: >Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/: >goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:57:21 -0500i+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>- Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F2B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----D > From: rdeininger@mindspring.com [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]   > In articleC > <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F29@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>,r. > Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote: >    > whether most can# > > understand hexadecimal numbers.S  @ > Dunno.  I notice the kids all have palmpilots these days.  Do  > palmpilots > do hexadecimal conversions?   G As a side-note, my handheld system will do this, but I don't know aboutr( palm.  It is sometimes convenient... but   > Oh.  You meant by hand?  Ha!  L Yes, I mean by hand -- while that hand isn't holding a computer or a stylus, to make it even clearer ;)  > > I was recently trying to explain to a graduate student what 
 > an "editor"e= > is.  You want I should confuse him with "stack" and "dump"?o  I Is he a student in a computer related field?  Did he do his undergraduateoJ work in this field?  If the answer to both of those questions is "yes," he( shouldn't have made it as far as he has.  L If both answers are "no," I guess that you can tell him it's "kind of like a( word processor," and let him go at that.  K If only one of the answers is "yes," he's in serious need of remedial work, " and shouldn't progress without it.   Regards,   Chris     ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developert Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");d ',  s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:00:52 -0500n' From: Djamel Guellil <dguellil@bnd.com>n Subject: Re: The future of VMS' Message-ID: <3B24CF14.1E9703AD@bnd.com>r   HellonO Could you please show me how to unsubscribe to this list..I tried sending email- to? "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> but no chance??r	 Thank youM   Djamel   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:17:51 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1106011017510001@user-2ive73q.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleA <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F2B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, , Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote:  @ > > I was recently trying to explain to a graduate student what  > > an "editor" ? > > is.  You want I should confuse him with "stack" and "dump"?h > K > Is he a student in a computer related field?  Did he do his undergraduatehL > work in this field?  If the answer to both of those questions is "yes," he* > shouldn't have made it as far as he has. > N > If both answers are "no," I guess that you can tell him it's "kind of like a* > word processor," and let him go at that. > M > If only one of the answers is "yes," he's in serious need of remedial work,s$ > and shouldn't progress without it.  F Grad student in physics, actually.  So he's safe as long as he doesn'tH have to spend most of the next few years writing software.  Oh, wait....  J Keep him in a nice quiet lab with no computers, you say?  Then I'd have toE explain "screwdriver" and "wrench".  I think "editor" will cause lesse long-term damage.  Sigh.   -- i Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:16:47 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>i Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F2C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Paul Repacholi [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]o   > Serious question;n  A > Does anyoe here consider a 'one language' programmer has even a  > moderate idea of programming?   ! The answer may surprise you... ;).  J Yes, it's possible.  A 'one language' programmer may have a very good ideaI of programming.  Technically it's possible to divine all you need to know:I about programming from a single language, and if, by some freak accident, I that's the only language they've been exposed to, then they'll still haven$ some idea of the basic principles.    H That is, of course, if they have the talent for programming in the firstH place, which brings us to the answer you're fishing for...  most of themK don't.  It's much more common to find somebody who programs in one language J because they have no idea what they're doing, and multiple languages would be exponentially confusing.-     Regards,   Chris-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:30:34 GMTn- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)e Subject: Re: The future of VMS1 Message-ID: <3b24d57a.245534189@news.process.com>s  5 On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:00:49 -0400, "Fred Kleinsorge"e$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  ) >Geez, why not just  $ define dcl$path []o >aM >Gets you UNIX-like automatic invokation of foreign images and command files. J >And since it's a search path, you can make it as broad or confined as you >want. >kE True.  Of course, the original statement was about creating DCL-stylecF qualifiers, and Brian's CLIFLAGS(FOREIGN) CLD file didn't address that at all.t  L There are still valid reasons for using that, though, just to avoid symbols.M One is that DCL$PATH doesn't exist in older versions of VMS.  Also, if you'redM managing a system and want users to be able to define their own DCL$PATH, butgM still have command XXX, this is a way to do it that doesn't rely on a logicalo or symbol definition.l   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:02:17 GMTn3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>( Subject: Re: The future of VMS/ Message-ID: <3B24DC99.F3C6C5A5@cableinet.co.uk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > & > In article <3b211679$1@news.si.com>,@ >  "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:/ > |> >Our environment is mainly Fortran (number O > |> >crunching, and I'm old, or so I'm told).  We employ younger staff for the - > |> >whizz-bang GUI stuff written in C et alg > |>N > |> I've never seen anyting written in C (or Pascal, or PL/I, or..., with theH > |> exception of, maybe, Ada) that couldn't also be written in Fortran. >  > The Unix Operating System??g >   E Fortran developers would have far better things to do with their timee :-)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:45:08 -0500s+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>s Subject: RE: The future of VMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F2D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----D > From: rdeininger@mindspring.com [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]  H > Grad student in physics, actually.  So he's safe as long as he doesn't> > have to spend most of the next few years writing software.   > Oh, wait....  I Well, I suppose if he didn't have to write software, you could put him in H the "it's like a word-processor" category.  As it is, you might considerE trying to convince him to take some basic computer-related electives.s  < > Keep him in a nice quiet lab with no computers, you say?   > Then I'd have toG > explain "screwdriver" and "wrench".  I think "editor" will cause lessI > long-term damage.  Sigh.  E I don't know, it's much more difficult to completely dismantle a veryy, complex system with a single screwdriver. :)   Chrisg  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");- '-      ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 17:28:06 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>L Subject: Re: The future of VMSH Message-ID: <y4bsnvqbnd.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:r  N > |> I've never seen anyting written in C (or Pascal, or PL/I, or..., with theH > |> exception of, maybe, Ada) that couldn't also be written in Fortran. > The Unix Operating System??u  . I don't think that would be much of a problem.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 09:14:23 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)m) Subject: Re: The future of VMS [ON TOPIC] 3 Message-ID: <8ysO9sPFzUKX@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  , In article <9JUN200110230319@gerg.tamu.edu>,/ carl@gerg.tamu.education (Carl Perkins) writes:tA > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes...SC > }>What I would like to see is a tool which automatically convertsr? > }>the command line interface of foreign programs to a CLD/VMS  > }>style interface. > } D > }It's a simple thing to produce.  Use the following as a template: > }2 > }DEFINE VERB foreign4 > }    IMAGE foreigndir:foreign, CLIFLAGS( FOREIGN ) > }--tD > }Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com >gE > That didn't convert squat. It didn't change the command line flags, D > say "-foo" for example, to qaulifiers (like "/foo" for example) orC > anything. It just kept everything the same except that once it isgB > in the command tables you don't have to define the symbol to run
 > it foreign.s  H The gzip.exe program at ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/gzip has a modifiedE version of gnu getopts() program that does the "/" to "-" conversion.d  F I included it in the FRONTPORT library on the OpenVMS freeware CD-ROM.  I Basically this makes it trivial for a UNIX program that uses getopts() tof have VMS like options.  G I did not find out how to make ":" and "=" interchangeable, so ":" mustc be used instead of "=".o  F > Automatically converting interfaces would be quite difficult - you'dF > have to parse the soruce code of the program to see what it actuallyB > does with the command line data, including deciding if any givenG > element should be a qualifier or a parameter and figuring out if theynE > are grouped (example: the differece between "program arg1 arg2" and G > the very similar looking "program arg1 value1" , the former might endtE > up as "program/arg1/arg2" and the latter as "program/arg1=value1").p  C > I have some serious doubts as to whether or not it is possibly tonE > do this interface style conversion automatically for anything others > than a very simple case.  F I would expect that there would be some manual steps involved with the building of the .CLD.b  J The GNU getopts() differs from the standard UNIX getopts in that it allowsI long option names instead of single letters.  These long option names arel preceded by "--".c  M The names of these options are passed by the program as an array to getopts()dL to use in the parse.  There may be a way for a getopts() routine to map them to CLD$ routines.   ; The FSF has produced a document on "standard" long options.(  D http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards_17.html#SEC17 is it's current URL.  J This may assist in an automating the process of generating a .CLD file for a GNU program.   -Johne wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 08:23:42 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sB Subject: Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS)3 Message-ID: <Ld4DAqksYm$s@eisner.encompasserve.org>J  o In article <jXiA7IPnueCk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:f > F > My recent experience with MMS indicated _it_ was not compatible withI > ODS-5 filespecs.  I would love to be told how I am mistaken on this :-)   H Sitting on top of a CMS, or peculiar to MMS itself?  CMS is mostly ODS-5D compatable (show history needs help), I use it for Java development.E I haven't had need to try MMS recently since Java almost knows how to>
 build itself.<  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupdE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 09:02:48 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)wB Subject: Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS)3 Message-ID: <1CJqtebYjOcW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <Ld4DAqksYm$s@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: q > In article <jXiA7IPnueCk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:v >>  G >> My recent experience with MMS indicated _it_ was not compatible with@J >> ODS-5 filespecs.  I would love to be told how I am mistaken on this :-) > J > Sitting on top of a CMS, or peculiar to MMS itself?  CMS is mostly ODS-5F > compatable (show history needs help), I use it for Java development.G > I haven't had need to try MMS recently since Java almost knows how to- > build itself.-  0 No, just MMS accessing (or not accessing) ODS-5.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 09:26:39 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) B Subject: Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS)3 Message-ID: <U8xDRBBBnUwv@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  3 In article <ZG6U6.1236$fi2.31804@news.cpqcorp.net>,:4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: >sJ >   Getting somewhat back on topic, I have been informed off-line that theK >   vmstar implementation was an implementaiton of tar for OpenVMS, and not J >   a port.  That said, adding ODS-5 support to various existing tools (be7 >   the tools ports or not) would still be of interest.Y  K Having used vmstar on ODS-5 disks, on restore it seems to handle all of thehJ funny characters fine, including extra imbedded dots, if you use the /DOTS option.n  0 $SET PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE=EXTENDED seems to help.  K What it does not handle on restore is directory names with embedded dots inn2 them, creating a new directory level for each one.  E While this seems to be a trivial update, a student project could also H include using the Source Code Analyzer, Digital Test Manager, and/or theM Performance Coverage Analyzer to verify the operation of the program, and seeo4 what improvements could be made to it's performance.   -John5 wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyt   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 09:51:23 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)aB Subject: Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS)3 Message-ID: <yJyApIMX$$rb@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  , In article <9fr1h0$24o1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>,9 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.education (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 5 > In article <0XQT6.1188$fi2.30085@news.cpqcorp.net>, 7 >  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:a > |>) > |>   A tool I haven't seen ported: RPM.S >>F > Considering that no one is packaging VMS software in the RPM format,E > what would this buy??  There are already recognized formats for VMSGD > installable packages.  What advantage would RPM bring over these??  K Some source code packages seem to be only readily available in .RPM format.y  M This winter I looked at porting RPM 3.x.  I was getting most of it to compile < and discovered that a newer RPM 4.x was out with RedHat 7.0.  M RPM packages produced by RPM 4.x by default can only be decrypted by RPM 4.x.L  K The only source code I found for RPM 4.x was available in an RPM 4.x formatUG archive, and at the time, no freestanding RPM 4.x readers that could bey. installed on a version of RedHat prior to 7.0.  K The system I had to test LINUX stuff on, had more than enough capability toaL install any Intel flavor of LINUX, except it seems RedHat.  It was insistingO that I have 700 Mb free on the system disk.  That I had 1 Gb free on a non-biosh' bootable disk was not acceptable to it.d  K RPM is a major product to build, and requires several LINUX libraries to beB emulated or ported.B   -Johnn Personal Opinion Only  Wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jun 2001 17:15:35 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)-B Subject: Re: Tools to Port to OpenVMS? (was RE: The future of VMS), Message-ID: <9g2ubn$308t$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <yJyApIMX$$rb@eisner.encompasserve.org>,,6  malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) writes:/ |> In article <9fr1h0$24o1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>,S< |> bill@triangle.cs.uofs.education (Bill Gunshannon) writes:8 |> > In article <0XQT6.1188$fi2.30085@news.cpqcorp.net>,: |> >  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: |> > |>a, |> > |>   A tool I haven't seen ported: RPM. |> >I |> > Considering that no one is packaging VMS software in the RPM format, H |> > what would this buy??  There are already recognized formats for VMSG |> > installable packages.  What advantage would RPM bring over these??o |> dN |> Some source code packages seem to be only readily available in .RPM format.  C Linux mindset.  It only shows a definite desire to keep the code asu? non-portable as possible. (So much for the GNU/GPL philosophy.)n  E People here do realize that RPM is merely another layer of complexity ( wrapped around the Unix CPIO program??      H And while I have everyone's attention, I have another question regarding+ the direction this project could/should go.e  C So far, what I have proposed is an undergraduate project(s) to port C some usefull Opensource Unix Tool to VMS with a longer term goal ofdB developing detailed porting guidlines that could be used for other such projects.  E I have had it suggested that an off-shoot of this could be a graduatenE level thesis project spcifically targeting defining what is needed to F port software int his manner and possible including the development ofD an abstraction layer to handle the OS level differences.  Comments??  C Another idea I had was to have a second and paralel project to take A some Opensource Unix Tool, say pdksh, and rewrite it in something 8 like Ada.  This offers a number of possible data points.9   1.  Will it be easier to do than merely porting the C??c?   2.  Will it offer a stabler program while maintaining all thei$       functionality of the original.B   3.  Will it result in a program that is easier to understand and4       therefore easier to maintain, modify and port.@ While we no longer use Ada for teaching at the lowere levels, atA least this years and next years seniors should have gone through D2 the classes that used Ada extensively.  Comments??  D This project is definitely moving forward and I see no reason why itE should not come about.  All that still needs to be determined is what D precisely we should try and get out of it.  And can it become a foot< in the door, as it were, for OpenVMS and the academic world.   bill   -- "J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:25:25 GMTl+ From: "Darren Peacock" <daz005@hotmail.com>a Subject: Re: UPDATE - Weblogic? Message-ID: <980V6.123575$ff.922099@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   G I guess we all get what we pay for, we want everything for nothin. TheneH complain like anything when somethings not perfect, (just an observation about our little industry)  K ON the BEA Web logic area, seems the momentum now is why pay for Web Logic,"K when Apache Tomcat  for VMS just got released. As an Application Server itstK hand down a better performer and has stinging performance on the Alpha, andaB under load on VMS its a pretty hard case to justify anything else.  I BEA has a very strong demonstrated commitment to SUN and has had for many9K years.  Be aware of this. Their swooning Compaq from i can see based on the-G Java Benchmarks being held by Compaq and Websphere making in roads intosL their base.. And they must want to have an eachway bet, just in case the Sun sets.a   Rgds   Darren Peacock    - "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> wrote in messageoI news:D776BB27852C2F5F.FFE2CB1649914300.823D3D030C20421F@lp.airnews.net...iJ >    I appreciate the input from the Compaq folks that monitor here (Kerry > especially)....  >g  >    Latest news is no news..... > D >    It is the inability of the Sales Support folks that back up theJ > marketing/sales suits we have contacted to bring forward ANYONE to speak3 > on behalf of WLS/BEA/OpenVMS that stinks.........w >hK >    I told BEA that had they mentioned on DAY ONE that they are evaluatingcG > coverage on OpenVMS and did not want to make committments without dueyL > consultation with the customer.... then we would have reluctantly acceptedJ > that and made our case for the platform... or purchased the TRU-64 or NT > solution.  > K >    We were contacted by one fellow at BEA who is EX-DEC/Compaq (6-8 yearsRE > I believe) and he could not get any pre-sales support from the homes) > office... or reach the product manager.e >lK >    In their case, however, and this is the point to be made here.... TheyfJ > blew a major point of credibility with us.... The messaage they sent wasL > nothing short of 'we are prepared to be less than honest about support for! > a product if your check clears'  >eJ >    Nothing new from a vendor you say.... If we wanted that we would call > Computer Associates. >R >N >L >i >d >' >d >s= > In article <3B1FA350.7D518728@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"t  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > > Richard Maher wrote: > > >  > > > >s- > > > > VMS management have their hands tied.e > > >a > > > Pig's arse!!!o > >nH > > Elucidate: how can Rich and Mark spend more money than they get from > > Q/Corp.? > >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:43:34 -0400c+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>u Subject: RE: UPDATE - WeblogicR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF490E900@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Darren,   B re: ISV commitments to vendors ... this is always a very "dynamic" environment.  K They will change as the market and their current preferred partner business  direction changes as well.  
 Reference:B http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2771679,00.html   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----0 From: Darren Peacock [mailto:daz005@hotmail.com] Sent: June 11, 2001 5:25 AMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml Subject: Re: UPDATE - Weblogic    G I guess we all get what we pay for, we want everything for nothin. Then H complain like anything when somethings not perfect, (just an observation about our little industry)  K ON the BEA Web logic area, seems the momentum now is why pay for Web Logic,eK when Apache Tomcat  for VMS just got released. As an Application Server its1K hand down a better performer and has stinging performance on the Alpha, and.B under load on VMS its a pretty hard case to justify anything else.  I BEA has a very strong demonstrated commitment to SUN and has had for manyeK years.  Be aware of this. Their swooning Compaq from i can see based on thenG Java Benchmarks being held by Compaq and Websphere making in roads intorL their base.. And they must want to have an eachway bet, just in case the Sun sets.    Rgds   Darren Peacock    - "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> wrote in messagecI news:D776BB27852C2F5F.FFE2CB1649914300.823D3D030C20421F@lp.airnews.net...cJ >    I appreciate the input from the Compaq folks that monitor here (Kerry > especially)....o >d  >    Latest news is no news..... >rD >    It is the inability of the Sales Support folks that back up theJ > marketing/sales suits we have contacted to bring forward ANYONE to speak3 > on behalf of WLS/BEA/OpenVMS that stinks.........0 >nK >    I told BEA that had they mentioned on DAY ONE that they are evaluating+G > coverage on OpenVMS and did not want to make committments without due.L > consultation with the customer.... then we would have reluctantly acceptedJ > that and made our case for the platform... or purchased the TRU-64 or NT > solution.  > K >    We were contacted by one fellow at BEA who is EX-DEC/Compaq (6-8 years E > I believe) and he could not get any pre-sales support from the home.) > office... or reach the product manager.  >nK >    In their case, however, and this is the point to be made here.... They J > blew a major point of credibility with us.... The messaage they sent wasL > nothing short of 'we are prepared to be less than honest about support for! > a product if your check clears'  >aJ >    Nothing new from a vendor you say.... If we wanted that we would call > Computer Associates. >l >n >t >m >b >n >t >n= > In article <3B1FA350.7D518728@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"o  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >> > > Richard Maher wrote: > > >e > > > >a- > > > > VMS management have their hands tied.  > > >  > > > Pig's arse!!!c > >sH > > Elucidate: how can Rich and Mark spend more money than they get from > > Q/Corp.? > >,   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:36:03 GMT:3 From: nsouto@nsw.bigpond.net.au.nospam (Nuno Souto)q6 Subject: Re: Urgent: Oracle 8 parallel server on VMS 7* Message-ID: <3b248f34.1359429@news-server>  2 On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:38:41 -0400, Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> wrote:   g >timeframe) While OPS on VMS has also been around a while, Rdb seems to have done it right  and it justa >works.t >s  F The alternative is to go 9i.  The clustering on that one for OPS seemsD to have been sorted out completely (or so the presentation said...).   Cheers
 Nuno Souto nsouto@bigpond.net.au.nospam2 http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den/index.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:40:55 +0200a, From: "Harald Thienel" <harald@h-thienel.de>6 Subject: Re: Urgent: Oracle 8 parallel server on VMS 7/ Message-ID: <9g2vr9$qfe$04$1@news.t-online.com>s  @ "Michael Austin" <miaustin@bellsouth.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag' news:3B23B0A1.D5478D8B@bellsouth.net...nK > Personally, if I were going to run an Oracle database on OpenVMS it wouldu not be Oracle Classic, butH > Oracle Rdb.   Rdb has been running on muliptle nodes in a true cluster  very successfully for many yearsI > now.   (For those in the comp.database.oracle.server newsgroup, Digitalm and OpenVMS invented theJ > cluster, not as some of you have been told that it was Sun or NT and has been around since '81-'82tH > timeframe) While OPS on VMS has also been around a while, Rdb seems to have done it right  and it justl > works.  H I definitly agree. We have Rdb running since 14 years (Oracle since 5 orH so). Rdb is a real working horse and in many features superior to Oracle Classic!G There was no alternative to start with Oracle Classic - we just had to.e   Harald   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:32:50 -0400h2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>! Subject: V7.3 and Galaxy Training 3 Message-ID: <NT2V6.1301$fi2.35003@news.cpqcorp.net>t   Dear Newsgroup,e  : I just got this message from one of our training partners.  
 Warm Regards,i   Suep          H OpenVMS Version 7.3 and Galaxy Training now available from PARSEC Group.  I Performance Management and Internals classes have been updated to reflecto  H the new functionality of OpenVMS 7.3 and there is also a new OpenVMS 7.3  I Update Seminar. There are two new Galaxy classes as well as a new OpenVMSe  J 7.3 System Management class. Parsec Group Inc is an Authorized Independent  J Training Partner (AITP) for COMPAQ. For more information call 888-472-7732  3 ext. 225 or email chuck@parsec.com (www.parsec.com)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:41:26 -0400n3 From: "Brad McCusker" <Brad.McCuskerSP@Mcompaq.com>t! Subject: Re: VMS / NT integrationn3 Message-ID: <C62V6.1298$fi2.35074@news.cpqcorp.net>   @ "John E. Malmberg" <malmberg@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:v8D$Ek5vR3PF@eisner.encompasserve.org...-   >-F > The only SMB client file and print access to NT is through the SAMBA
 > product. >r >oD Actually, Vector Networks' LanUtil32 product provides a commerciallyL supported SMB client package for OpenVMS.  There is a link to it hanging off, the PATHWORKS pages under "releated links" -' http:\\www.openvms.compaq.com\pathworksc   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:06:24 -0400a- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>j! Subject: Re: VMS / NT integrationn- Message-ID: <3B24C24F.31EEE54D@bellsouth.net>>   dpc2 wrote:p  I > Hello, all.  I am a VMS newbie, thrust into admin role against my will.sL > Today, I installed an lpr que for the first time.  And it actually worked!M > Which experience made me wonder if I could create a VMS queue for a printerOJ > served by an NT server queue.  Which also led me to wonder if SMB or NFS. > type interoperability with NT was available. >f1 > If anyone can share their wisdom, I'd grateful.n >s > jean  O If you are looking for a free SMB solution, you can always use SAMBA  (provides N PRINT and SHARE services)  I have a 2100 running OpenVMS in my home office and? it is very easy to save files from my peecee to the Alpha using  WindozeExplorer.  H you can start here: http://www.ifn.ing.tu-bs.de/ifn/sonst/samba-vms.html   Michael Austin   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 08:44:17 -07007 From: Richard.Tierno@prisons.phila.gov (Richard Tierno).! Subject: Re: VMS / NT integrationa= Message-ID: <3532859a.0106110744.2e1b6828@posting.google.com>c  b "dpc2" <dpc2@cnmnetwork.com> wrote in message news:<xuYT6.31356$Uo3.1095571@news6.giganews.com>...I > Hello, all.  I am a VMS newbie, thrust into admin role against my will.xL > Today, I installed an lpr que for the first time.  And it actually worked!M > Which experience made me wonder if I could create a VMS queue for a printeruJ > served by an NT server queue.  Which also led me to wonder if SMB or NFS. > type interoperability with NT was available. > 1 > If anyone can share their wisdom, I'd grateful.e >  > jean  O Yes, you can.  First, you must have TCP/IP Print Services installed and started N  on the NT server.  When you create the NT queue, you must create an LPR port M for the queue giving it the IP address of the printer and the word "RAW" wheneO prompted for the address of the server providing LPD services.  Then create thelM queue on VMS using SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$LPRSETUP.EXE (or UCX$LPRSETUP.EXE if you O are still running UCX).  1) "add" a printer 2) give it a name: 3) it will be "remote"
 4) no synonymo$ 5) take default on spooler directory! 6) no printserver extensions flagh+ 7) remote system name will be the NT serveri3 8) remote printer name will be the queue name on NT@# 9) take the default on the errorloguN 10) turn on the pa and cr flags, they are both boolean, so give them the value of "on" when promptedf  L That should do it, though you may have to assign a device control library.  L Most recently manufactured printers will use a laserjet library so start the queue with a /lib=SYSDEVCTL_LJ.t  $ At least, this is what works for me.   Richard Tierno Systems Managerk Philadelphia Prison System   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:42:26 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?* Message-ID: <3B249282.9B0B2CF8@uk.sun.com>   Peter Weaver wrote:. > ? > "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message & > news:3B1E4EC3.FF78E2C1@uk.sun.com... > >f > > Carl Perkins wrote:i > > >M7 > > > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes...P > >...> > > > }technological breakthrough. It offers an incredible 3.2 > litres/100 kmmF > > > }on the highway, 3.9 litres/100 km in the city and an unheard of > 1250 > >...? > > > The 3.2 liters per 100 km is about 73.5 miles per gallon,h? > > > the 3.9 l/100 km is about 60.3 mpg, and the 1250 km rangen > > > is nearly 777 miles. > > >t > >t? > > The Volksvagen Lupo does 64.8 MPG on a combined urban/extraI7 > > urban mileage. Its a fairly standard diesel engine.s > >... > B > My Father-in-law was just complaining the other day that his oldH > diesel VW was getting 4.? litres/100KM, but his Datsun is only gettingF > 7.? l/100KM. Nooooooooooooooo. Ignore that comment, this thread willH > start arguing about diesels vs. non-diesel engines. I'm not even goingH > to mention that in the early 90's I had a natural gas tank in my Chevy? > Cavalier with a manual switch to go from natural to gasoline.bA > Noooooooooooooo. Now we're going to argue about natural gas vs.r > electric.1 >   = I am informed that diesel engines are not that popular in the ; US. They have however been growing in popularity in Europe s< particularly with the introduction of the latest generation 0 of cleaner, quieter and more responsive engines.  A > Just curious Andrew, in England do you use Miles/U.S. Gallon orsD > Miles/Imperial Gallon? Nooooooooooooo. Scratch that question, this? > thread will start arguing about Metric measurements vs. otheri > measurements.   6 Good point, I was using Miles per Imperial Gallon not 8 Miles per US Gallon, not many car manufacturers selling 3 into the UK market use US gallons as a measure :):)      > E > Maybe we can turn this thread over to VMS Marketing, that will kill  > it.n   That would work.     Regardso Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jun 2001 13:47:59 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?H Message-ID: <y4wv6j44r4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e  H > I think the comics and public speakers still use "2.8" as the AmericanG > average number of children in a traditional family. Any idea what them% > comparable European stat. might be?t  K In the 1.3-1.8 range. IIRC, the lowest number, much to my surprise, was for  catholic Spain.c   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:26:59 GMTi3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>.2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?/ Message-ID: <3B24C644.5176DD3D@cableinet.co.uk>h  $ system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > 0 > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:4 > >jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes:  iJ > >It is not the average that matters. Local conditions and ocean currents > >have the dominant effect. > K > The irony is that one possible outcome is that the big Antartic ice shelfeE > will melt catastrophically because of global warming, bringing somewE > sigificant flooding, but then all that cold water being dumped inton( > the oceans will then cause an ice age.  G so, do us poms wait for the heatwave due to global warming or get ready F for the mini-ice age due to the demise of the gulf stream... Life sure is interesting.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jun 2001 13:31:49 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9g2h85$2nct$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <871yoss599.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, /  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:5 |>? |> BTW, neither get anywhere near the saftey of a full harness.3  C Which are illegal for street use in every state I am familiar with.e  
 Go figure.   bill   -- fJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:32:33 -0400i- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>d2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?( Message-ID: <3B24D67C.65C27AFB@ohio.edu>  K When a **FLOATING** ice-shelf melts, there is **NO** change in the level ofi the sea.  J The only  ice whose melting raises the sea level is ice that is resting on@ land (continental glaciers, including Greenland and Antarctica).  K Sea level may also rise from thermal expansion, but it may well take a verylL long time for the surface heating to penetrate to the depths for the bulk ofC the volume of the oceans, in order to raise the average temperature  significantly.  #                                 RDPi     Tim Llewellyn wrote:  & > system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > >i2 > > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:6 > > >jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes: >YL > > >It is not the average that matters. Local conditions and ocean currents > > >have the dominant effect. > >DM > > The irony is that one possible outcome is that the big Antartic ice shelfeG > > will melt catastrophically because of global warming, bringing somewG > > sigificant flooding, but then all that cold water being dumped into.* > > the oceans will then cause an ice age. > I > so, do us poms wait for the heatwave due to global warming or get readyeH > for the mini-ice age due to the demise of the gulf stream... Life sure > is interesting.r   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:37:02 -0400w- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>.2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?( Message-ID: <3B24D789.347091C3@ohio.edu>  I Eleven years ago when I lived in Kalamazoo, Checker was a sub-contractor, " making frames for GM, as I recall.  #                                 RDP      Jordan Henderson wrote::  N > In article <rdeininger-1006011643410001@user-2ivec4f.dialup.mindspring.com>,5 > Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:1? > >In article <87wv6kqqik.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholiu! > ><prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:g > > * > >> system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu writes: > >>K > >> > If they were still available and if it weren't for the environmentalsK > >> > impact I would kill for an old-style U.S. taxicab.  Huge space, easytJ > >> > to get in, the engines last 100s of thousands of miles in miserable > >> > city driving. > >>& > >> Aren't Checkers is in production? > >l > >It doesn't look like it.e > >C7 > >http://www.checkercabs.org/html/checker_history.htmlo > >6H > >There's a lot of nostalgia at that site, and I didn't see a link to a > >still-live company. > >  >rH > I agree that if they were still around, you'd find information at thatK > site to contact them, particularly on the "Where can I find parts" pages.t >aA > But, there is this interesting disclaimer on some of the pages:n >i >wF >         Copyright  1995-2001 WFN5 Productions - All Rights ReservedG >         Note: Checker, Checker Motors, Marathon, Superba, Aerobus andWC >               other trademarks are the property of Checker MotorsiH >               Corporation, Kalamazoo, MI. This site is a personal site; >               for entertainment and information use only.a >tJ > Which suggests that there is a legal entity that still holds trademarks.+ > This could just be boilerplate, though...o >hH > Maybe Checker Motor Corporation does still exist, but mostly on paper,5 > hoping someone will come along and revive the line.  >i >aB > >Classic marathon cabs are downright rare on the streets of NYC. > >s > >--g > >Robert Deininger  > >rdeininger@mindspring.com >w > -Jordan Hendersons > jordan@greenapple.com6   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:51:06 GMTA3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>h2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?/ Message-ID: <3B24D9FB.28B0F2DA@cableinet.co.uk>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Paul Repacholi wrote:t > >.A > > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:e > >tI > > > >   Funny how we hardly heard anything about "children in the back"eC > > > >here in North America until airbags started killing them :-}  > >vE > > > Not true.  Long before airbags were invented, everyone knew the.? > > > safest place for a child was the middle of the back seat., > >tI > > Unrestrained??? If so, then that is the worst possible place. It nearl6 > > garentees they will go out through the windscreen! > J > Well, I dunno. As I recall, bench seats and split-bench seats (in 2-doorH > models) were more the rule than the exception back then. The kid would? > more likely end up into the back of the seat, I should think.m >   nB my Dad used to have us do emergency "hide behind the seats" drills1 on family outings. No seatbelts in the back then.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:33:18 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <m5l9itcgiseun7g5tdgr7tqkbhtu8qpi28@4ax.com>  / On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:26:59 GMT, Tim Llewellyn6& <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:   >>H >so, do us poms wait for the heatwave due to global warming or get readyG >for the mini-ice age due to the demise of the gulf stream... Life sure1 >is interesting.  D Don't know but I wouldn't move to Houston. Talking to some people atC our Houston plant today it seems the production facilities are finejD but the surrounding area is trashed. It was a surface wellhead plant8 last week but I guess it's now a subsea well facility...  > Yes I know you can't blame individual events on global warmingB directly but I guess some soggy oil industry execs are giving it a little bit more thought today. -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jun 2001 16:33:20 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9g2rsg$2tns$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>  / In article <3B24C644.5176DD3D@cableinet.co.uk>,B6  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes: |>    1 |> Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:e5 |> >jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes:i |>  K |> >It is not the average that matters. Local conditions and ocean currents( |> >have the dominant effect.o |> .L |> The irony is that one possible outcome is that the big Antartic ice shelfF |> will melt catastrophically because of global warming, bringing someF |> sigificant flooding, but then all that cold water being dumped into) |> the oceans will then cause an ice age.   B According to the experts on ABC last night the oceans have alreadyA risen 300-600 feet since the end of the last ice-age and that alle; happened before the first SUV rolled off the assembly line.t  = And then we have the Piri Ries' Map which shows an Antarctic -  continent totally devoid of ice.   bill   -- :J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.322 ************************