1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 14 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 327       Contents:A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com K "Talk Baq" to Compaq - summary of findings from  www.compaqworkinggroup.org O Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - summary of findings from  www.compaqworkinggroup.org  Re: 7.3 in .au RE: 7.3 in .au! Alpha network sessions disconnect % Re: Alpha network sessions disconnect % Re: Alpha network sessions disconnect  Backups  Re: Backups  Re: Backups  Re: Backups  Re: Backups  Re: cms question Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars, DCPS: passing parameters to a postscript job0 Re: DCPS: passing parameters to a postscript job( Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses - anyone?( Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses - anyone?( Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses - anyone? Re: Global sections $ grief with VAX6000 blower motors ... Re: Hobbyist Licensing& How do you undefine TCP for a device ?* Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?9 RE: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses 9 Re: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses + Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely? + Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely? + Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely? - Kernel Stack Not Valid (was: Odd System Halt) ; Link your Plasticfabrication Web Site to IndustrySearch.Com - Re: Missing docs on VMS 7.3 documentation CD? - Re: Missing docs on VMS 7.3 documentation CD? " Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE" Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE" Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE" Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE" Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE Re: NYSE Odd System Halt  RE: OT - Perl Hacker9 OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses & Re: Problem with JUMP from FREEWARE CD- Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk. - Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk. - Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk. - Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk.  Re: Problems with V7.3?  Re: Problems with V7.3?  RE: Problems with V7.3?  Re: Problems with V7.3?  RE: Problems with V7.3? # Re: Program to emulate HTTPs POSTs?  Re: set ho/mop Re: set ho/mop Show Intrusion: strange output" Re: Show Intrusion: strange output Re: Streaming of multiple files  Re: Streaming of multiple files # Re: Training sites for vms training # Re: Training sites for vms training $ Ucretsiz Online OSS Danismanligi !!! Re: V7.3 backup "improvement" 
 Re: VMSTAR
 Re: VMSTAR
 Re: VMSTAR
 Re: VMSTAR5 Re: Xerox DocumentCentre 332/340ST on VMS print queue  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:37:08 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com' Message-ID: <3B27B2D4.7E3B52C0@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > J > No complaints have been heard from the ITUG (Himalaya NSK) constituency.  . Is there a Netscape for NSK? ...other browser?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:40:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com, Message-ID: <3B27B3AA.F81B911D@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: J > No complaints have been heard from the ITUG (Himalaya NSK) constituency.    M NSK has never provided decent terminal support, nor graphic applications. VMS L however, has had internet utilities and browsers of various levels from lynx to netscape.  4 Tandem hasn't built NSK based workstations. VMS did.  M Tandem was never a standards setting organisation. Digital was. And VMS folks L tend to want to stick to standards and not use fluff where it is not needed.  M javascript is fine for some types of applications, but it is not necessary in N 99% of the cases where it is being used today. In many cases, it is being usedM for the sake of using javascript so that the programmer can impress the boss, G even if it measn that the web site is actually slowler and less usable.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:39:30 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.comL Message-ID: <OF6E010E16.E66087F7-ON03256A6A.00665C56@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  , NSK is a operating system for servers only !; I dont see any advantage to have a web browser for Tandems.  As for OpenVMS under Motif. K OpenVMS is a server op system.  It needs a good web server, middleware, etc  !  It is not to play MP3 !    Regards    FC        B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> em 13/06/2001 15:37:08  = Favor responder a "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       J Assunto: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com     "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > J > No complaints have been heard from the ITUG (Himalaya NSK) constituency.  . Is there a Netscape for NSK? ...other browser?   -- David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:58:53 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> J Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.comL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F52@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  K Don't artificially limit VMS.  It would, given the proper software, make an L excellent desktop OS.  Just because that software doesn't exist yet, doesn't( mean that VMS is not suited to the task.   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '       > -----Original Message-----+ > From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br   . > NSK is a operating system for servers only != > I dont see any advantage to have a web browser for Tandems.  > As for OpenVMS under Motif. > > OpenVMS is a server op system.  It needs a good web server,  > middleware, etc  > !  > It is not to play MP3 !    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:19:59 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br J Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.comL Message-ID: <OFABA78875.FCFF16C9-ON03256A6A.0069E6B5@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Do the desktop user need :   a) AUDIT
 b) ANALYZE c) AUTHORIZE d) OPCOM
 e) ACCOUNTING    just for example ....   F I suggest a port to the desktop using the old MicroVMS.  It used to be "light", so why > not Compaq can "open it"  to the developers make experiences ?   Regards    FC        < Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> em 13/06/2001 15:58:53  7 Favor responder a Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       J Assunto: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com    K Don't artificially limit VMS.  It would, given the proper software, make an D excellent desktop OS.  Just because that software doesn't exist yet, doesn't ( mean that VMS is not suited to the task.   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '      > -----Original Message-----+ > From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br   . > NSK is a operating system for servers only != > I dont see any advantage to have a web browser for Tandems.  > As for OpenVMS under Motif. = > OpenVMS is a server op system.  It needs a good web server,  > middleware, etc  > !  > It is not to play MP3 !    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:45:05 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> J Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.comL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F56@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----+ > From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br    > Do the desktop user need :  
 > a) AUDIT  L Yes. :)  (Surprising, yes, but desktops get network attacks directed towardsH them regularly.  Auditing may, with some reasonable defaults, be able to detect this early.)    > b) ANALYZE  - Yes, for examining the disk structure, etc...    > c) AUTHORIZE  8 Yes, several desktops are now in multiuser environments.  
 > d) OPCOM   No.    > e) ACCOUNTING   L See auditing and authorize.  If there are no network services enabled on the computer, this may superfluous.    > just for example ....   H > I suggest a port to the desktop using the old MicroVMS.  It used to be > "light", so why @ > not Compaq can "open it"  to the developers make experiences ?  L Well, you do realize that MicroVMS was more or less just VAX/VMS without theH dependence on the hardware PDP-11 emulation?  At least, this is what I'm told...    Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:32:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com, Message-ID: <3B27CDB7.E6C054D5@videotron.ca>   Christopher Smith wrote:N > Well, you do realize that MicroVMS was more or less just VAX/VMS without theJ > dependence on the hardware PDP-11 emulation?  At least, this is what I'm	 > told...   K No, it was VMS without DECnet and other goodies (such as clustering) and it K came with Micro-documentation that had errors in it. It also had simplified G directory structure without the sys$common and sys$specific dual trees.   J I still remember when I got the VMS 5.0 kit and decided to install it that night on the microvax ! I Ahh, those were the days where on had blind trust in VMS distribution and M installed stuff the same day you got it without much planning by just reading  the documentation !   N And for me, it gave me lost of new gadgets such as SET HOST/DTE which were notM available under MicroVMS. And while I heard many horror stories from some who K migrated to 5.0, for me it was quite easy. (But I was confused as hell with  the new directory structures).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:44:37 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> J Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.comL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F58@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]  ; > No, it was VMS without DECnet and other goodies (such as   > clustering) and it? > came with Micro-documentation that had errors in it. It also   > had simplified> > directory structure without the sys$common and sys$specific 
 > dual trees.   I Clustering is a "layered product" anyway, right?  I'm sure one could have A re-arranged the directory structure (unsupportedly, of course! :)    Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:56:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com, Message-ID: <3B27D397.72F06C9B@videotron.ca>   Christopher Smith wrote:K > Clustering is a "layered product" anyway, right?  I'm sure one could have C > re-arranged the directory structure (unsupportedly, of course! :)   J No, clustering is a SIP (system integrated product) and is deep inside the bowels of VMS.  M I suspect that MicroVMS had those parts of the bowels trimmed away to save on M disk space. (being installable on small disk drives was the original intent I B PRESUME of microvms. When VMS 5.0 came out, one had the options toI install/omit various components of VMS so you could still the real VMS on 
 small drives.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:11:44 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com; Message-ID: <QqSV6.2021$%f.1749349@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B27B2D4.7E3B52C0@fsi.net...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > L > > No complaints have been heard from the ITUG (Himalaya NSK) constituency. > 0 > Is there a Netscape for NSK? ...other browser?  K Not that I know of... I think all the NSK types use Windoze peecees and the $ like for non mission-critical stuff.  L Which is probably just as well: ya don't want a Netscape crash bringing down$ AOL or a 911 system or stock market.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jun 2001 17:07:34 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) J Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com3 Message-ID: <btFuIyMQZJ3O@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <OFABA78875.FCFF16C9-ON03256A6A.0069E6B5@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: > Do the desktop user need : > 
 > a) AUDIT > b) ANALYZE > c) AUTHORIZE
 > d) OPCOM > e) ACCOUNTING  >  > just for example ....  > H > I suggest a port to the desktop using the old MicroVMS.  It used to be > "light", so why @ > not Compaq can "open it"  to the developers make experiences ?  7 Those are all configuration options for installing VMS. = Automated configuration of those options is quite viable with 
 a little DCL.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jun 2001 17:09:11 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com3 Message-ID: <h+jClpq3EFL3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3B27CDB7.E6C054D5@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Christopher Smith wrote:O >> Well, you do realize that MicroVMS was more or less just VAX/VMS without the K >> dependence on the hardware PDP-11 emulation?  At least, this is what I'm 
 >> told... > M > No, it was VMS without DECnet and other goodies (such as clustering) and it:M > came with Micro-documentation that had errors in it. It also had simplified I > directory structure without the sys$common and sys$specific dual trees.   * I had MicroVMS with DECnet and clustering.  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:26:10 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>pJ Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com, Message-ID: <3B2812B1.BA154758@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:, > I had MicroVMS with DECnet and clustering.  : Did you have to install Decnet and vaxcluster separately ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:52:23 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>T Subject: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - summary of findings from  www.compaqworkinggroup.org; Message-ID: <bVTV6.2047$%f.1777187@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>s   Folks,  J Here's a writeup I did on the last round of issue submission and voting atK www.compaqworkinggroup.org. It's from a recent issue of SKC, so it reflectsmH a summary analysis of the Top Ten issues, not Compaq's feedback. (All 67 browser-choking slides of it!)  L So even if you can't access the site, or have JavaScript or cookie concerns,? here are the issues that proved to be of the greatest interest.s   cheers,?   terry sl    3 Compaq Listens 24 x 7 at www.compaqworkinggroup.orgb  J  2001 Terry C. Shannon, IT Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaq  D Got a bone to pick with Compaq? Do you think Compaq's marketing is a mares-nest? DoK you believe the availability of an affordable Alpha system would help deter 	 customersaJ from wandering off the reservation and aligning themselves with the Wintel or SunI crowd? Or do you just have a pet peeve, comment, or suggestion that you'd  love to give> to Compaq, if you only knew who to talk to? You are not alone!  G Working in conjunction with Compaq's Customer Liason Office and Qualitye	 AssurancehE folks, the DECUS/ITUG/Encompass Joint Advocacy Working Group recentlyh	 completedPH the first full round of issue submission and voting based on information gathered at the E www.compaqworkinggroup.org Web site. Per the terms of the partnershipv establishedoI more than a year ago, the results were forwarded to Compaq management fore	 feedback.iJ The official responses, which were delivered to ITUG/ DECUS Joint European+ Conference attendees, are summarized below.    Compaq Takes on the Top Tenn  L During 4CQ00 and 1FQ01, the online advocacy mechanism collected some 130 rawA issues which were consolidated into 23 ballot items. Close to 500r participants cast votesr= during the balloting process, yielding a Top Ten Issues list.e  I Not surprisingly, Marketing and Promotion and Branding and Positioning of 
 EnterpriseF Products garnered 54 percent and 44 percent of the votes respectively. Accordingly, theseF issues were consolidated into a single category that gained Number One ranking. Coming!G in at a close second was Low Cost Alpha Systems. Over 44 percent of thee voters (SKC H included) regarded the dearth of such offerings to be a very significant problem.  L The accuracy, content, and ease of use of the Compaq Website, as well as the
 quality ofH the firm's Online Capability, drew an equal ~36 percent of the votes and	 thus wereeL merged into a single third-place category. Compaq's Technical Support Center was theiD key Services-related issue, and fourth overall. Next on the list was Pricing, particularlyeK with respect to the price and value of Compaq's enterprise products. NearlyC one-third of' the voters had their say on this issue.o  D A quarter of the voters expressed concern about Compaq's Third-party Development-G Tools, Product, and Solution Portfolio. A virtually identical number ofe respondents citedfK Product End of Life Issues, hence these issues came in sixth and seventh ono	 the list.sG Following closely were votes urging Compaq to Enhance VMS Mail with the 
 ability toL allow attachments and common internet email standards. (As any Usenet lurker knows,G the VMS community is passionate about getting its issues aired, and VMSt	 customerse6 took full advantage of the online advocacy mechanism).  H Rounding out the list were Himalaya and Alpha Technology Integration and HardwareL Product Reliability. Complete details on the Top Ten List, as well as Compaq 's; responses, are available at the online advocacy Web site ats www.compaqworkinggroup.org.o  J Space precludes a detailed discussion of Compaq's responses in this forum, but theaJ advocacy Web site contains the 67-slide presentation that formed the basis	 of Compaqu< management feedback and commentary at the Lisbon conference.   Having Your Say-  K All users of Compaq enterprise computing systems are invited to participatei
 in the onlineeK advocacy program. To make yourself heard, you'll have to complete an onlinecL registration and profile form at the Working Group Web site. You'll be asked	 to supply J your name, email address, country of residence, and the OSes you run. Once thisL demographic information is submitted, you'll receive a username and password viaDL email. (You can choose to remain anonymous, in which case your name will not beL revealed to Compaq, nor will it appear on any reports or documents generated by theJ Advocacy tool.) Participation is free of charge, and no Compaq salesperson or telemarketer will call you.a  K From now through July 4, 2001, you can visit the Web site to submit any andt all generalhK or product-specific issues that you deem to be important to Compaq. You can- chooseI among seven predefined issue categories or create a new category; in bothc cases you have, the opportunity to enter free-form comments.  G At the conclusion of the issue submission phase, the Working Group wille analyze andsJ aggregate the submissions to produce a ballot of key issues. From August 6 through I September 21, you can return to the Web site and cast your vote for up toa five issues thatL you regard to be of the greatest importance. Compaq and the Advocacy Working GroupdK will analyze the voting results and create a Top Ten Issues List. Under the5 terms of theK Advocacy partnership agreement, Compaq management is committed to providingV anI official response to each issue that appears on the Top Ten List, much inp the manner thism occurred in Lisbon.o  " Submit Locally, Get Heard Globally  L SKC has served on the Advocacy Working Group since its inception. We've alsoJ frequented Compaq-related Usenet newsgroups-and, of course, Compaq ListensC sessions at DECUS, Encompass and ITUG conferences-but neither venue  represents aL statistically significant or demographically accurate snapshot of the Compaq customerJ base. Accordingly, we believe that a Web-based survey mechanism represents the bestF available channel for conveying issues of broad concern to Compaq, and	 receiving,$ feedback from appropriate officials.  I While there is no guarantee that Compaq will supply Better Answers to alli the issues thatmH are submitted through the online advocacy tool, it's certain that active end-userF participation in the process will provide management with a heightened awareness of keyG issues and concerns in the global customer base. With customer advocacya ranking on theI first page of Michael Capellas' todo list, SKC feels that online advocacy  provides aniF excellent way to ensure that Compaq puts its money where its mouth is.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:14:29 GMT"4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>X Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - summary of findings from  www.compaqworkinggroup.org; Message-ID: <VdUV6.2050$%f.1783549@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>e  L Something got lost in the formatting of the article, drop me a line if you'd# an MS-Word or .txt version thereof.o   cheers,r   terry se   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:02:23 GMT-) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)0 Subject: Re: 7.3 in .au-1 Message-ID: <3b28289f.173595136@news.wcc.govt.nz>m   Paddy,   I was wondering the same thing.   C Neither 7.3 nor the June Con Disk has made it across the ditch yet.m  C I'm eagerly awaiting it as it's supposed to contain Pathworks 6.0 DEE which hopefully will go some way to addressing some of the "features"t I'm currently living with.  D Nice to know our Aussie neighbours are as behind the times as us ;-)   Rob.  C On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:27:13 +0010, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aut wrote:  N >Having seen these various messages about 7.3 appearing in disparate parts of P >the world, and reading Alan Greig's sob story, I am tempted to ask whether any ; >folk in .au have yet received 7.3 and/or the June ConDist?  >iQ >I'll also throw in another quick question (not having seen the release notes).  oM >Can 7.3 DECstation co-exist in a cluster with a VAXstation still at 6.2?  I sP >don't really need to upgrade my VAX, it's used mainly for transport of a debug E >window from my Alpha development machine and to receive my VMS mail." >uP >And both workstations sit on my desk :-)  No PeeCee :-)))))))))))  (What's the * >emoticon for dancing and clapping hands?) >S >Regards, Paddys >e >Paddy O'Brien,y >Transmission Development, >TransGrid,w >PO Box A1000, Sydney South, f >NSW 2000, Australia >  >Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063s >Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050e' >Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aut > N >Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,< >but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam. >j   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:15:28 -0400s+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@COMPAQ.com>1 Subject: RE: 7.3 in .au>R Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF48DBE1E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Rob,  G >>> I'm eagerly awaiting it as it's supposed to contain Pathworks 6.0 D E which hopefully will go some way to addressing some of the "features"t I'm currently living with.<<<a  A Just checked the V7.3 docs and they show PW6.0D being part of thee
 distribution.,   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----< From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz [mailto:rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz] Sent: June 13, 2001 11:02 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh Subject: Re: 7.3 in .aut       Paddy,   I was wondering the same thing.i  C Neither 7.3 nor the June Con Disk has made it across the ditch yet.i  C I'm eagerly awaiting it as it's supposed to contain Pathworks 6.0 DdE which hopefully will go some way to addressing some of the "features", I'm currently living with.  D Nice to know our Aussie neighbours are as behind the times as us ;-)   Rob.  C On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:27:13 +0010, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au- wrote:  J >Having seen these various messages about 7.3 appearing in disparate parts of oK >the world, and reading Alan Greig's sob story, I am tempted to ask whethero any ; >folk in .au have yet received 7.3 and/or the June ConDist?i >pG >I'll also throw in another quick question (not having seen the releaseu	 notes).  wL >Can 7.3 DECstation co-exist in a cluster with a VAXstation still at 6.2?  I  I >don't really need to upgrade my VAX, it's used mainly for transport of a  debug E >window from my Alpha development machine and to receive my VMS mail.  >oK >And both workstations sit on my desk :-)  No PeeCee :-)))))))))))  (What's  the * >emoticon for dancing and clapping hands?) >. >Regards, Paddy  >i >Paddy O'Brien,i >Transmission Development, >TransGrid,h >PO Box A1000, Sydney South,   >NSW 2000, Australia >  >Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063d >Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050h' >Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aut > F >Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,n< >but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam. >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:27:34 GMTo, From: "Sharon Pulsifer" <zydko@softdisk.com>* Subject: Alpha network sessions disconnect4 Message-ID: <aqUV6.69$9d.32491@newshog.newsread.com>  I Hello.  I am hoping that some of you can help me.  I have an Alpha ServertI DS20E running vms 7.2-1 and tcpip v5.0a. We connect to a Cisco 4006.  The0K port on the cisco is set for full duplex, 100bt speed and high level.  I amzJ not getting any errors on the cisco port.  I am also not getting any errorI in NCP in vms.  I am not at work right now, but I think the NIC card is ae DE600.  H All sessions that run in batch or at the console run fine.  However, anyE telnet or lat sessions gets either disconnected for stalled for a few & seconds many times throughout the day.  K I am out of  ideas.  So far we have changed the switch port, plugged into au? different switch, changed network cables and changed NIC cards.e  / Has anyone else experienced anything like this?r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:59:14 -0400-( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>. Subject: Re: Alpha network sessions disconnect+ Message-ID: <3B281A72.3C3A5CF4@bigfoot.com>a  K Check to make sure the NIC is set to 100/Full on the Alpha.  When VMS is up9! type $MCR LANCP SHOW DEV/ALL/CHARpM If it is not set, at the console prompt, set the appropriate variable for theo speed of the NIC.e     HM   Sharon Pulsifer wrote:  K > Hello.  I am hoping that some of you can help me.  I have an Alpha ServeroK > DS20E running vms 7.2-1 and tcpip v5.0a. We connect to a Cisco 4006.  ThehM > port on the cisco is set for full duplex, 100bt speed and high level.  I ameL > not getting any errors on the cisco port.  I am also not getting any errorK > in NCP in vms.  I am not at work right now, but I think the NIC card is aS > DE600. > J > All sessions that run in batch or at the console run fine.  However, anyG > telnet or lat sessions gets either disconnected for stalled for a fewn( > seconds many times throughout the day. >CM > I am out of  ideas.  So far we have changed the switch port, plugged into a3A > different switch, changed network cables and changed NIC cards.f >n1 > Has anyone else experienced anything like this?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:48:22 -0400 - From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> . Subject: Re: Alpha network sessions disconnect- Message-ID: <3B2825F6.5A8F2416@bellsouth.net>y  H What is your client PC Emulator? do you have an HP printer installed?  IC find that if I kill the following, my  "delays" go away:  FINDFAST, E DOT4, hpha1mon.  Especially when working on a laptop with Reflections-' V7.00.211 P6 over a DSL/VPN connection.    Michael Austin DBA Consultant     Sharon Pulsifer wrote: > K > Hello.  I am hoping that some of you can help me.  I have an Alpha Server-K > DS20E running vms 7.2-1 and tcpip v5.0a. We connect to a Cisco 4006.  TheCM > port on the cisco is set for full duplex, 100bt speed and high level.  I am.L > not getting any errors on the cisco port.  I am also not getting any errorK > in NCP in vms.  I am not at work right now, but I think the NIC card is a  > DE600. > J > All sessions that run in batch or at the console run fine.  However, anyG > telnet or lat sessions gets either disconnected for stalled for a few ( > seconds many times throughout the day. > M > I am out of  ideas.  So far we have changed the switch port, plugged into aDA > different switch, changed network cables and changed NIC cards.1 > 1 > Has anyone else experienced anything like this?K   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:12:00 GMTk7 From: trevor.osatchuk@nospam.pscl.com (Trevor Osatchuk)r Subject: Backups5 Message-ID: <3b27cf50.486771890@news.telusplanet.net>i  B Newbie question, again.  I have OpenVMS 6.2 on an alpha.  We had aC disk failure, got a new disk and restored form tape.  I have had to D make some changes to networking and update some proprietary softwareD to make the system the same as it was before the crash.  Now, I wantF to make a backup of it.  I have booted from the OS cd and want to makeF an image copy of the disk to tape.  I have tried a couple of commands,B to no avail.  I have mounted the disk dka100 but do I also have toA mount the tape drive?  I have tried that with the foreign flag as=B specified in the backup /image help but I get promted for a label.  What is the label of a new tape?  ? As I have not performed a backup on VMS I am also unsure of the=F commands I will need to execute the backup.  If someone could point me% to a howto URL I would appreciate it.    Thanks   Trevor Osatchuke   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:19:54 +0200 (CEST)- From: Freddy Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>c Subject: Re: BackupsK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106132316340.28002-100000@firewall.freddym.org>l   Hi!t  C > mount the tape drive?  I have tried that with the foreign flag as D > specified in the backup /image help but I get promted for a label." > What is the label of a new tape? > A > As I have not performed a backup on VMS I am also unsure of thegH > commands I will need to execute the backup.  If someone could point me' > to a howto URL I would appreciate it.u  E Hmm. I don't know if I'm exactly right (as I don't have my VMSClustertJ running at the moment), but at least it should guide you to the right way:   $ init xxxxxx: yyyyyy @ xxxxxx is your Tape Device yyyyyy is the desired tape label (for- example: BACKUP (it mustn't exceed 6 Chars)).,7 $ mount /over=id xxxxxx:   (xxxxxx is your Tape device)nC $ backup /image /ignore=interlock dka100: xxxxxx:[000000]BACKUP.BCKm  + That should create an Image copy of dka100., /image = Image Copyb) /ignore=interlock = Saves open files, tootF xxxxxx:[000000]BACKUP.BCK creates a file in the root directory of your tape with the name backup.bcko   See "help backup" for details.
 Best Regards,u 	Freddy    -- nN Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv  J ==========================================================================D  Frederik Meerwaldt  ICQ: 83045387  Homepage: http://www.freddym.orgC  Bavaria/Germany              OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much moreuI  Solaris, HP/UX, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOSG   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:14:17 -0400t+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>w Subject: Re: Backups# Message-ID: <sb279f86.065@aaas.org>t  6 From our internal docs - substitute your drive letters   --SNIP--   Insert a blank tape into drive  E At $$$ Prompt Type "initialize/media_format=3Dcompact mka500:backup".   L At $$$ Prompt Type "mount/media_format=3Dcompact/foreign mka500:backup.bck"= .e  0 he drive to be backed up needs to be mounted.=202 =B7 For the system disk:  $$$ mount dka0: alphasys  I At $$$ Prompt Type "backup/image/media_format=3Dcompact (drive letter): =i mka500:backup.bck /log".  L When the backup is finished, dismount the source and destination, and then = type "lo" to log out.i  J >>> Trevor Osatchuk <trevor.osatchuk@nospam.pscl.com> 06/13/2001 5:12:00 = PM >>>B Newbie question, again.  I have OpenVMS 6.2 on an alpha.  We had aC disk failure, got a new disk and restored form tape.  I have had towD make some changes to networking and update some proprietary softwareD to make the system the same as it was before the crash.  Now, I wantF to make a backup of it.  I have booted from the OS cd and want to makeF an image copy of the disk to tape.  I have tried a couple of commands,B to no avail.  I have mounted the disk dka100 but do I also have toA mount the tape drive?  I have tried that with the foreign flag as B specified in the backup /image help but I get promted for a label.  What is the label of a new tape?  ? As I have not performed a backup on VMS I am also unsure of thenF commands I will need to execute the backup.  If someone could point me% to a howto URL I would appreciate it.s   Thanks   Trevor Osatchuko   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:53:18 -0400p  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Backups5 Message-ID: <1010613195252.4229C-100000@Ives.egh.com>w  , On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Freddy Meerwaldt wrote:   > Hi!w > E > > mount the tape drive?  I have tried that with the foreign flag as.F > > specified in the backup /image help but I get promted for a label.$ > > What is the label of a new tape?  B Hmm!  It shouldn't ask for a label on a mount/foreign.  You could,? as Freddy suggests, init the tape and then mount specifying thea9 label you used in the INIT command, but this is peculiar.T  C > > As I have not performed a backup on VMS I am also unsure of theiJ > > commands I will need to execute the backup.  If someone could point me) > > to a howto URL I would appreciate it.n > G > Hmm. I don't know if I'm exactly right (as I don't have my VMSClustertL > running at the moment), but at least it should guide you to the right way: >  > $ init xxxxxx: yyyyyyuB > xxxxxx is your Tape Device yyyyyy is the desired tape label (for/ > example: BACKUP (it mustn't exceed 6 Chars)).r9 > $ mount /over=id xxxxxx:   (xxxxxx is your Tape device)n  B I think you need to mount the output tape for backup with /foreign   $ mount/foreign/over=id xxxxxx:e  E If the tape controller has a write cache, then add a /cache=tape_datao to the mount command.s  E > $ backup /image /ignore=interlock dka100: xxxxxx:[000000]BACKUP.BCKh  F The original poster said he had booted the VMS installation CD, so the? system disk should not have any open files on it.  Therefore hed! shouldn't need /ignore=interlock.t  E However, I strongly suggest /VERIFY (will make it take twice as long)aG and /block_size=32256 (larger block sizes on tape make it much faster.)s  K Also, if the tape drive supports data compression, /media_format=compactionp helps a lot.  C For online backups, the source disk (especially if it is the system @ disk!) is usually already mounted, but when backing up using theB installation CD ROM (recommended for the system disk), you need to mount it first.G   $ mount/nowrite dka100: labelt  2 (Or use /override=id if you don't know the label.)  - > That should create an Image copy of dka100.u > /image = Image Copyc+ > /ignore=interlock = Saves open files, toooH > xxxxxx:[000000]BACKUP.BCK creates a file in the root directory of your > tape with the name backup.bck  >   > See "help backup" for details. > Best Regards,e	 > 	Freddy    -- y John Santosa Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:36:33 -0500u1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u Subject: Re: Backups' Message-ID: <3B280711.708F40C8@fsi.net>a   John Santos wrote: > . > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Freddy Meerwaldt wrote: >  > > Hi!g > >-G > > > mount the tape drive?  I have tried that with the foreign flag asfH > > > specified in the backup /image help but I get promted for a label.& > > > What is the label of a new tape? > D > Hmm!  It shouldn't ask for a label on a mount/foreign.  You could,A > as Freddy suggests, init the tape and then mount specifying theo; > label you used in the INIT command, but this is peculiar.r > E > > > As I have not performed a backup on VMS I am also unsure of theeL > > > commands I will need to execute the backup.  If someone could point me+ > > > to a howto URL I would appreciate it.  > >cI > > Hmm. I don't know if I'm exactly right (as I don't have my VMSCluster N > > running at the moment), but at least it should guide you to the right way: > >k > > $ init xxxxxx: yyyyyyiD > > xxxxxx is your Tape Device yyyyyy is the desired tape label (for1 > > example: BACKUP (it mustn't exceed 6 Chars)).n; > > $ mount /over=id xxxxxx:   (xxxxxx is your Tape device)a > D > I think you need to mount the output tape for backup with /foreign > ! > $ mount/foreign/over=id xxxxxx:   + /FOREIGN makes /OVER=ID superfluous, AFAIK.q   -- g David J. DachteraD dba DJE Systems1 http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:58:49 -0400a; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>s Subject: Re: cms questiona$ Message-ID: <3b27b816$1@news.si.com>  L >If I try to reserve from this class I get generation 22 as well, of course,F >but when I try to do a replace it tells me that generation 23 already? >exists.  In other words, i need to bring this class into sync.n  J Then you'll need to INSERT whatever generation you want into the class.  AK class, by definition is a collection of _specific_ generations of elements.tJ A group, on the other hand, is a collection of the most recent generationsK of the elements it contains.  A class, therefore, is a snapshot of that the K elements looked like at a particular time.  They are often used to hold thetF baseline of a release so that that baseline can always be regenerated.I Perhaps you want to create a group for your purposes, instead of a class.n --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comsA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventy< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:51:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p' Subject: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Warst, Message-ID: <3B27B632.D1D8B6B0@videotron.ca>   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:-L > From personal experience of using keyboards that have no moving parts, and5 > mice that do not move.  They just don't feel right.e  2 That is what touch screens are for :-) :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:58:39 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u5 Subject: DCPS: passing parameters to a postscript jobs, Message-ID: <3B27D3FF.C4BA9B88@videotron.ca>  G Is it possible to pass parameters in the PRINT command  such that those L parameters would be accessible by the postscript code that will execute ? OrI is the only way to generate a temporary file that contains code to defineo> those paremeters and pass that file as part of the print job ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:38:40 -0400n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)9 Subject: Re: DCPS: passing parameters to a postscript job L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1406010138400001@user-2ive61a.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B27D3FF.C4BA9B88@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:g  I > Is it possible to pass parameters in the PRINT command  such that thoseiN > parameters would be accessible by the postscript code that will execute ? OrK > is the only way to generate a temporary file that contains code to definev@ > those paremeters and pass that file as part of the print job ?  G I'm not sure you can fit raw postscript into the PRINT command syntax. nF But you can cause set-up modules to be inserted via the command line. H These modules (from the queue's device control library file) can consistI of postscript commands.  I guess this is a temporary file, in a way.  The I system manager has to set the modules up in advance.  For a user to stickaJ in arbitrary postscript on his own, I think he'll have to modify the print$ file before sending it to the queue.   -- s Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comW   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:15:50 -0400d- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>m1 Subject: Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses - anyone? - Message-ID: <3B2791B6.F2518871@bellsouth.net>6  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  q > In article <yrvg+NI1gDfw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:b` > >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEOMCLAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:> > >> Moses tripped, broke the tablets.  So we will never know. > >o4 > >The real Moses got a backup copy from his vendor.   More acurately...Ur Actually Moses got angry at the incompentence of the user community and threw them against a rock smashing them top pieces.  When he inquired about a backup copy, the Vendor told him to cut out the stone tablets himself and Theya would dictate the contents whereby Moses would have to hand chisel them into the tablets himself.t   Michael Austin DBA Consultant   >t
 > ROTFLMAO!!!n >  > Thanks Larry!I > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe >aQ > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:28:31 GMTn= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) 1 Subject: Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses - anyone?e0 Message-ID: <009FD7BF.1C606008@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ] In article <3B2791B6.F2518871@bellsouth.net>, Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> writes:f >. >>' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:c >er >> In article <yrvg+NI1gDfw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:a >> >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEOMCLAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:a? >> >> Moses tripped, broke the tablets.  So we will never know.n >> >5 >> >The real Moses got a backup copy from his vendor.n >l >More acurately...s >Actually Moses got angry at the incompentence of the user community and threw them against a rock smashing them tofq >pieces.  When he inquired about a backup copy, the Vendor told him to cut out the stone tablets himself and Theyib >would dictate the contents whereby Moses would have to hand chisel them into the tablets himself.  # The exact account is in Exodus 34:1o   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc            eO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:34:43 -0600h% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>C1 Subject: Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses - anyone?gB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010613163418.025d3708@ntbsod.psccos.com>  ; At 04:28 PM 6/13/2001, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:n> >In article <3B2791B6.F2518871@bellsouth.net>, Michael Austin ! ><miaustin@bellsouth.net> writes:y > >h > > ) > >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:p > >r9 > >> In article <yrvg+NI1gDfw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, a= > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:iK > >> >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEOMCLAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden   > <tom@kednos.com> writes:A > >> >> Moses tripped, broke the tablets.  So we will never know.  > >> >7 > >> >The real Moses got a backup copy from his vendor.  > >  > >More acurately...K > >Actually Moses got angry at the incompentence of the user community and b, > threw them against a rock smashing them toI > >pieces.  When he inquired about a backup copy, the Vendor told him to  , > cut out the stone tablets himself and TheyK > >would dictate the contents whereby Moses would have to hand chisel them c > into the tablets himself.y > $ >The exact account is in Exodus 34:1  0 Gee, I thought it was "Exodus 11/34"...<grin>...   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+pI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |dI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |-I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |rI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |-I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+I   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:22:13 -0400r2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> Subject: Re: Global sections* Message-ID: <3B283BF5.5F82E863@oracle.com>  # you are thinking of OpenVMS Galaxy.w   john nixon wrote:a > G > Didn't a recent VMS release allow the access of global sections amongtK > cluster nodes?  I have been looking for some documentation on that, but IuK > have not found it yet.  Our development programmers are saying I am nuts.e > They may be right.   -- a> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:18:38 GMTk6 From: Gunther Schadow <gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org>- Subject: grief with VAX6000 blower motors ... 6 Message-ID: <3B282D0B.3FE9D580@aurora.regenstrief.org>  G Hi, I'm hoping to find someone who knows DC motors. I have confirmation1G that the the motors used for the VAX6000 blowers are bound to die afteruH having put to rest for some months after about 10 years of 24/7 service.H The death rate in my collected experience is now 7 out of 12!!! What can$ be done? And why are they all dying?  J These are brushless motors with one electrolyte capacitor and 6 what mightI be transistors. The motors look very good, no dust no smudge or anything. J They are not mechanically stuck. The capacitor does not look worn. I don'tK have a databook for those transistors, they are TIP105 (3x) and TIP100 (3x)fK (are those PNP or NPN?) for a total of 6. There's also an IC "LS7261" (not uJ sure about last digit). And at least one larger diode (pasted to the heat  sink.)  H Since it's all a bit tricky to solder things apart, I'd need some adviceD about what can be done. What's most likely to break so consistently?@ And how could I test it without removing all parts from the PCB?   I appreciate any advice. thanks,r -Gunther     -- oH Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.                    gschadow@regenstrief.orgH Medical Information Scientist      Regenstrief Institute for Health CareH Adjunct Assistant Professor        Indiana University School of MedicineH tel:1(317)630-7960                         http://aurora.regenstrief.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:44:07 -0400=# From: Mark Vance <mvance@iglou.com>F Subject: Re: Hobbyist Licensing ) Message-ID: <3B284117.B0A503DF@iglou.com>G  M I tried to get my license at montagar, and even called encompass to verify my H ID number, and I STILL wasnt able to register for a Hobbyist license.  IF emailed Montagar and they said they weer having trouble updating thier0 database with the New Decus Members.  CRAP!!!!!!  L SO Im stuck with a VAX 4000 with VMS 5.2 on it, and needing at least versionM 6.2 to run my newer model TK tape drive to get some stuff I wanted to look at H off.  I was hoping to wipe it and get a fresh install of 7.2, off of the
 Hobby kit.  L Im sure I couldnt afford the 2 or 3 upgrade kits, even if i could find them.G Anyone have any solutions?  The Encompass fellow told me they'd get theh; license page working soon, but who knows when that will be.c           Michael Austin wrote:u  I > Hooray!!!   I received a message today stating that my request has beeniG > processed and I should have the Encompasse ID with in the next day ort/ > so!!!  Then, I can order the Hobbyist kit!!!!> >eH > Re-reading my message, it sounds more harsh than I really intended.  II > should take my own advice and vent  in a message, then wait a day or son > before sending it... >e2 > $SET MOUTH/open=WIDE/insert=FOOT/ask=FORGIVENESS > 	 > Thanks,e >e > Michael Austin >a > Michael Austin wrote:t >IF > > Q:  Will a Hobbyist layered product license work with a "real" VMSI > > license?  I have an alpha 2100 (H layered product level with a "real"tD > > VMS license) that I need to install FORTRAN and C for a personalJ > > project.  Now, the real problem is that I have not been able to obtainK > > the hobbyist kit, since Compaq/Encompass cannot get me registered as an  > > Encompass member.. > >m > > $SET FLAME/ENABLE=HOTnJ > > This really should not be this difficult. If they are using an outsideJ > > vendor to process the enrollments, they should be fired if they cannot > > do the job.  > > $SET FLAME/DISABLE > >3 > > Regards, > >o > > Michael Austin   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:29:38 GMTe+ From: tom@automatedtech.com (Tom Hickerson)a/ Subject: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?e3 Message-ID: <3b28213f.49913031@news.mindspring.com>p  F Once an IP address has been entered for a interface (WE0 for EWA0: forD example) how can you disable TCPIP on that device? TCPIP$CONFIG letsC you define the initial host name, IP , etc... and then change them,h@ but I can't figure out how to remove them altogether.  We have aE system with multiple ethernet devices and TCPIP has gotten defined onaE one device where it should not be. We use DECnet and LAT only on some  ethernet segments.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:55:14 -0400I+ From: Tom Hickerson <tom@automatedtech.com>e3 Subject: Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?g2 Message-ID: <+jQoO+0qTBqDuOk88cyr6DRET72H@4ax.com>   BTW I've tried:o   TCPIP> SET NOINTERFACE WE0  ' That executes without error but doesn'ti$ seem to do what I'd hoped.  The WE0 + interface still shows up and appears to be i, defined when I look at it with TCPIP$CONFIG.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:49:42 -0400t+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>/B Subject: RE: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of MosesR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF48DBE1A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Scott,   >>> Am I the only VMS pup? <<<  I The real test is if you recognize the names of the folks in this picture.g? http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/timeline/vax_article.htmle   :-)e  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant= Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesu Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: Scott Vieth [mailto:svieth@wi.rr.com]c Sent: June 13, 2001 9:59 PMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComnA Subject: OT: I'm just a "pup"! Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Mosesd     Zowie!!!  J Twenty years ago, I was still a few years away from learning how to drive!  G [Note for our overseas friends: In the States, we usually take driver's  education courses at age 16.]e  K I've had a feeling for a long time that I was/am one of the youngest peopleB who.D reads comp.os.vms regularly.  At most storage events, I'm always the youngestK person there by about ten years.  I checked out the web page with photos ofy then recentK gathering at the DFW users group and, man, there were a lot of "old timers"- there.  ;^)a   Am I the only VMS pup? :^)  J I realize that not very many folks in my generation have decided to have a larges partK of their career revolve around VMS.  It seems like everyone in my age group0 touched G VMS in college ("Duhhh, I remember programming in FORTRAN on a VAX when L I was college." is a typical remark) and then moved on to specialize in some other platform.eK I have a lot of techie friends my age who are Novell gurus, Cisco gurus, NTn gurusf and evenI some Solaris gurus.  But I can't think of anyone my age who knows a greath deal	 about VMSn and the hardware it runs on.   Comments anyone?  9 -Scott, VMS guru, storage guru, young whippersnapper  :^)p   Dan O'Reilly wrote:e  H > Actually, I have this someplace, back from Way Back When in my days atL > Digital many moons ago (gad, nearly 20 years!).  Lemme see if I can dig it > up.  >I   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:00:33 -0400)' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> B Subject: Re: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses( Message-ID: <9g9cnl$659$1@pyrite.mv.net>  6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF48DBE1A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net... > Scott, >n  > >>> Am I the only VMS pup? <<< >rK > The real test is if you recognize the names of the folks in this picture.fA > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/timeline/vax_article.html/  K But don't feel too bad if you flunk - I did too (just *can't* remember Dave  Rogers at all)..   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:06:16 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 4 Subject: Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely?+ Message-ID: <3B27AB97.42AAA05@videotron.ca>s   Larry Kilgallen wrote:B > But what you describe is fully within the capability of a faulty > IP device driver.a  M Does a device driver do the equivalent of $DCLAST to queue the completion ASTqK ? If so, wouldn't it be very obvious that he should first fill out the IOSBh" before declaring/queuing the AST ?  H I once had a "similar" DECnet problem. Client would open channel, send aG single transaction and then close channel. The server worked fine on mynN machine, but on the customer's machine, after some debugging, I found out thatH the server was receiving the mailbox message for the closing of the linkM before it had received the data packet. Not very intuitive... So I had to add M code to handle cases where the link was being closed before a data packet hadlN been received to essentially keep that link alive for a while in case the data packet did arrive.  K However, this timing problem was at a very different level than the problemo described above.  L I guess the solution I would think of is a small loop inside the AST routineK that would loop until the IOSB is non-zero. Another possibility would be tosL also have an event flag raised upon completion and wait for that event flag L inside the AST. My gut tells me that the event flag mechanism would give you good "timing".   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:28:46 GMT  From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..comz4 Subject: Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely?8 Message-ID: <jrlfitsgk6a380665r17038ethrs4g49ji@4ax.com>  < On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:01:25 +0100, steve.lock@bt.com wrote:  H >This problem occurs even when I have only one active channel.  The readM >IOSBs are stored in a static array, on a per-channel basis and I have a flag)K >to remove the possibility of queuing multiple reads on the same channel.    >0M >The write IOSBs are allocated dynamically (because it's entirely possible tom# >have multiple writes outstanding).D >3H >I mention the above to make the point that the IOSBs are not reused forL >multiple concurrent I/Os, which would perhaps allow another kernel-mode QIO> >completion to mess with the IOSB after invoking the user AST. >... >Any and all ideas appreciated.f  = Can you, if you're not doing so already, pass a useful value b> for Ast param, such that your completion routine can identify ; for which particular QIO call the completion ast was fired?n  ; A throwaway thought:  declare the iosb storage as volatile, = if only for documentation purposes, but perhaps also to rule m1 out some strange sort of compiler optimization.  e  < I'd also ask if the behavior changes if you compile w/ NOOPT and/or link with /DEBUG ...m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:35:23 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)l4 Subject: Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely?0 Message-ID: <009FD7C0.126865A9@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <jrlfitsgk6a380665r17038ethrs4g49ji@4ax.com>, LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com writes:= >On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:01:25 +0100, steve.lock@bt.com wrote:h >oI >>This problem occurs even when I have only one active channel.  The readcN >>IOSBs are stored in a static array, on a per-channel basis and I have a flagL >>to remove the possibility of queuing multiple reads on the same channel.   >>N >>The write IOSBs are allocated dynamically (because it's entirely possible to$ >>have multiple writes outstanding). >>I >>I mention the above to make the point that the IOSBs are not reused for-M >>multiple concurrent I/Os, which would perhaps allow another kernel-mode QIOb? >>completion to mess with the IOSB after invoking the user AST.  >>...g  >>Any and all ideas appreciated. >t> >Can you, if you're not doing so already, pass a useful value ? >for Ast param, such that your completion routine can identify n< >for which particular QIO call the completion ast was fired? >G< >A throwaway thought:  declare the iosb storage as volatile,> >if only for documentation purposes, but perhaps also to rule 2 >out some strange sort of compiler optimization.     You mean like this?  ;)y  + VOLATILE:	.LONG 0[2]	; storage for the IOSBe   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             bO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.h   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jun 2001 22:08:53 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)s6 Subject: Kernel Stack Not Valid (was: Odd System Halt)3 Message-ID: <vANr+XMwIaDo@eisner.encompasserve.org>1  ] In article <3b27d822.152990789@news.wcc.govt.nz>, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) writes:r > Hi Chaps,  > D > This morning found one of our Alphas (DEC3000) runs VMS 7.2-1, allG > recent patches including the new Upgrade V2.0 Patch & ECO 1 for TCPIPu2 > 5.1. Also 7.3A of DECamds installed on 7th June. >  > It was at the >>> prompt,  >  > Message on the screen was: >  > kernel stack not valid halt   F Try using SYSGEN (followed by MODPARAMS.DAT) to increase the number ofG kernel stack pages.  Some products indicate in their documentation thatgG this is required.  Some product developers have not figured it out yet.tF You can use SDA to figure out which driver used it up, but it is a bitF more difficult when the pointer has been reset to the beginning of the5 stack to handle reporting the kernel stack not valid.f  , > Anyone any experience of anything similar?  H Of course there could be other causes, like cosmic rays, but the DII-COE3 software is require for full Solaris compatibility.   N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:54:40 -0400o" From: webmaster@industrysearch.comD Subject: Link your Plasticfabrication Web Site to IndustrySearch.Com) Message-ID: <E15ALPE-0001xh-00@iglou.com>,  F Industrial Search Engine, IndustrySearch.Com, invites you to link you=F r "Plasticfabrication" related web site to our USA Industrial Directo=F ry. This Free Link can be seen by tens-of-thousands of plasticfabrica=F tion buyers and industrial visitors every day. Linking your web site =F to IndustrySearch.Com is FREE, so there is no excuse not to be includ= ed.   F To link your plasticfabrication website to IndustrySearch.Com click "=F Free Website Link" (you will find this button listed under General In= formation).n  F To go to IndustrySearch.Com=92s "PLASTICFABRICATION" Portal now click=  here=85=20   % plasticfabrication.industrysearch.come  F IndustrySearch.Com, business-to-business search engine, is the indust=F rial buyer=92s portal to the Internet. IndustrySearch.Com includes hu=E ndreds of unique SIC portals. Get linked to IndustrySearch.Com today!i  ) On-line RFQs are sent instantly via emailg
 E-Commerce< Hyperlinks to featured Advertiser Web Sites found on Portals Online toolsF Plasticfabrication Manufacturing, supplier, and service companies can==  be easily located by state from our USA Industrial Directoryb Library of Feature Articlest6 Search New Product Releases or submit your company=92sE Plasticfabrication Trade Association Hyperlinks and Calendar listings-  F If our proposal of a free listing in our USA Industrial Directory was=F  an intrusion we apologize. To be removed from our "Plasticfabricatio=F n" data send a email with remove in the subject line to webmaster@ind= ustrysearch.coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:46:16 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)6 Subject: Re: Missing docs on VMS 7.3 documentation CD?3 Message-ID: <YxOV6.1434$fi2.42126@news.cpqcorp.net>   \ In article <9g82aa$op3$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> writes:K :I am looking for AA-QSBCC-TE, OpenVMS Alpha Guide to 64-Bit Addressing andnL :VLM Features.  Other manuals (i.e., the OpenVMS System Management Utilities' :Reference Manual) still refer to this.s ..J :I was wondering if it had been re-named; I'm not able to locate it on the :CD.  L   The information in this manual is being folded (has largely been folded?)    into other OpenVMS manuals./  +   From the documentation overview manual...   L "Beginning with Version 7.3, the following manuals are archived. The online J versions are included with other archived manuals in a separate directory % on the OpenVMS documentation CD-ROM. 0  ; Migrating an Application from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha m: OpenVMS Alpha Guide to 64-Bit Addressing and VLM Features" ..  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:07:31 -0400 . From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>6 Subject: Re: Missing docs on VMS 7.3 documentation CD?+ Message-ID: <9g8dka$b1n$1@bob.news.rcn.net>(  F Looking a bit more, some of this information has moved to the 'OpenVMS Programming Concepts Manual'.)   Thanks.a   Ken Randelli  = Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageo- news:YxOV6.1434$fi2.42126@news.cpqcorp.net...u? > In article <9g82aa$op3$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Kenneth Randell"  <kenr@datametrics.com> writes:I > :I am looking for AA-QSBCC-TE, OpenVMS Alpha Guide to 64-Bit Addressingn and D > :VLM Features.  Other manuals (i.e., the OpenVMS System Management	 Utilitiesg) > :Reference Manual) still refer to this.t > ..L > :I was wondering if it had been re-named; I'm not able to locate it on the > :CD. > D >   The information in this manual is being folded (has largely been folded?) >   into other OpenVMS manuals.- > - >   From the documentation overview manual...  >kF > "Beginning with Version 7.3, the following manuals are archived. The onlineK > versions are included with other archived manuals in a separate directorya& > on the OpenVMS documentation CD-ROM. >d< > Migrating an Application from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha< > OpenVMS Alpha Guide to 64-Bit Addressing and VLM Features" > .. >a( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------VL >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringm hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:31:03 +0400 C From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <to-junk--laishev@mail.dls.net---to-junk>b+ Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSEi? Message-ID: <T6OV6.9842$FX1.322619@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>s   Hello Hoff!r  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagei- news:dcwV6.1400$fi2.39696@news.cpqcorp.net...dC >   Have you reviewed the lib$t[able_]parse examples in the current C >   OpenVMS documentation; specifically the LIB$ RTL documentation?t>     Sure. All examples want to use separators like "," or "/".   > 1 >   You reference parsing a string in the format:  >  >     Token1: foo Token2: bar  > H >   But that is unfortunately insufficent grammar to define the parsing. > H >   Are there specific tokens for Token1 and Token2, or is it free-form?     Ok. Lexems:"L     Token := it's a list of predefined keywords in form: Token_":", "_" sign  denote a continuation operation.G     Value := it's a token's "value", it's a string with spaces and tabsp  So stream to parsing looks like:: Token_space_Value_Separator_Token_space_Value_Separator...  $     An example of stream to parsing:J     Token1: hello world ! Token2: bye-bye man Token1: hello guy:( <CR><LF>?     Token2: bla-bla ! Token3: 123456789 Token3: ...----... <CR>  >SG >   What are the permitted delimiters between "foo" and "Token2" in the- >   above example?     Space, Tabs,CR,LF    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:15:21 GMT:2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)+ Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE 3 Message-ID: <tRPV6.1438$fi2.42129@news.cpqcorp.net>W   In article <T6OV6.9842$FX1.322619@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <to-junk--laishev@mail.dls.net---to-junk> writes: % :    An example of stream to parsing:oK :    Token1: hello world ! Token2: bye-bye man Token1: hello guy:( <CR><LF>e@ :    Token2: bla-bla ! Token3: 123456789 Token3: ...----... <CR>  A   If that is an actual example, well, this string is going to be -#   very, um, "interesting" to parse.   F   An inquiry: How can I differentiate the the tokens from the text in J   the string?  Is the way to identify the next hunk effectively comprised @   of any of a specified set of tokens, each ending with a colon?  A   If so, you're going to get to learn about subexpression parsingtC   within tparse, since that's how you'll have to differentiate the t   following two strings:  D      One: surprise Two surprise and fear Three: fear and surprise...E      One: surprise Two: surprise and fear Three: fear and surprise...c  G   It appears ruthlessly inefficient to parse this particular grammar.  eB   Amongst our weapons... Amongst our weaponry, most grammars will C   include a way to locate the next statement, in order to reliably tC   reset the scan on the detection of an error and thus to continue p)   onward.   Cardinal, read the charges...v    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:32:33 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)h+ Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSEs0 Message-ID: <009FD7BF.ACCC1BF3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <tRPV6.1438$fi2.42129@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: >In article <T6OV6.9842$FX1.322619@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <to-junk--laishev@mail.dls.net---to-junk> writes:& >:    An example of stream to parsing:L >:    Token1: hello world ! Token2: bye-bye man Token1: hello guy:( <CR><LF>A >:    Token2: bla-bla ! Token3: 123456789 Token3: ...----... <CR>r >aB >  If that is an actual example, well, this string is going to be $ >  very, um, "interesting" to parse. > G >  An inquiry: How can I differentiate the the tokens from the text in bK >  the string?  Is the way to identify the next hunk effectively comprised )A >  of any of a specified set of tokens, each ending with a colon?a >tB >  If so, you're going to get to learn about subexpression parsingD >  within tparse, since that's how you'll have to differentiate the  >  following two strings:  >uE >     One: surprise Two surprise and fear Three: fear and surprise... F >     One: surprise Two: surprise and fear Three: fear and surprise... > H >  It appears ruthlessly inefficient to parse this particular grammar.  C >  Amongst our weapons... Amongst our weaponry, most grammars will iD >  include a way to locate the next statement, in order to reliably D >  reset the scan on the detection of an error and thus to continue * >  onward.   Cardinal, read the charges...  I ...Surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and P surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our three weapons are fear, and surprise,N and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our
 four...no...     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            sO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:47:31 -0700-! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com1+ Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSEfD Message-ID: <OFB96D052A.21A4B52D-ON88256A6A.007D251B@foundation.com>  H Down, Brian, or we'll come over there and poke you with cushions.... :-)   Shane           E system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) on 06/13/2001r 03:32:33 PMs  I Please respond to system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)    To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como cc:a  , Subject:  Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE    3 In article <tRPV6.1438$fi2.42129@news.cpqcorp.net>, 4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:K >In article <T6OV6.9842$FX1.322619@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>, "Ruslan R.o: Laishev" <to-junk--laishev@mail.dls.net---to-junk> writes:& >:    An example of stream to parsing:B >:    Token1: hello world ! Token2: bye-bye man Token1: hello guy:
 ( <CR><LF>A >:    Token2: bla-bla ! Token3: 123456789 Token3: ...----... <CR>t >lA >  If that is an actual example, well, this string is going to bes$ >  very, um, "interesting" to parse. > F >  An inquiry: How can I differentiate the the tokens from the text inJ >  the string?  Is the way to identify the next hunk effectively comprisedA >  of any of a specified set of tokens, each ending with a colon?  >tB >  If so, you're going to get to learn about subexpression parsingC >  within tparse, since that's how you'll have to differentiate thet >  following two strings:T >yE >     One: surprise Two surprise and fear Three: fear and surprise...gF >     One: surprise Two: surprise and fear Three: fear and surprise... > F >  It appears ruthlessly inefficient to parse this particular grammar.B >  Amongst our weapons... Amongst our weaponry, most grammars willC >  include a way to locate the next statement, in order to reliably:C >  reset the scan on the detection of an error and thus to continueh* >  onward.   Cardinal, read the charges...  H ..Surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear andF surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our three weapons are fear, and	 surprise,nJ and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... OurD four...no...   --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  I city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named afters them.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:29:14 -0500f1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE ' Message-ID: <3B28055A.20E9AF55@fsi.net>c  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > J > Down, Brian, or we'll come over there and poke you with cushions.... :-)  # Better: Put him in the comfy chair!    CONFESS!   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.3   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:52:22 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: NYSEl; Message-ID: <GFVV6.2070$%f.1813320@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>c  1 "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in messagen9 news:vk5U6.432190$fs3.68102873@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...qG > Anybody know what kind of computer system the New York Stock Exchangel uses? I > All trading has been halted due to a "computer glitch".  Of course thatt coug > ld mean almost anything. >o >k  G They have, among other things, Himalayas and HP-Windoze front ends. The I problem apparently was with a new version of a trading application. Hencet/ the blame can be put on neither NSK or Windoze.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:26:31 GMTr) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)  Subject: Odd System Halt1 Message-ID: <3b27d822.152990789@news.wcc.govt.nz>a  	 Hi Chaps,t  B This morning found one of our Alphas (DEC3000) runs VMS 7.2-1, allE recent patches including the new Upgrade V2.0 Patch & ECO 1 for TCPIPo0 5.1. Also 7.3A of DECamds installed on 7th June.   It was at the >>> prompt,    Message on the screen was:   kernel stack not valid halt   * Anyone any experience of anything similar?  D Checked and the details in the Crash Dump are from an earlier Crash. No errors logged to DECEvent. E Checked DSN and all pointers are to Crash Dumps which this didn't do.3  E Worries me as I'm scheduling putting the Upgrade V2.0 patch& ECO1 forK TCPIP 5.1  into production.t   Thanks for any info.   Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:57:22 -0500b6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@DELETETHIS.mac.com> Subject: RE: OT - Perl HackerC8 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010613133703.0385e7d0@exchi01>   >> -----Original Message-----p7 >> From: Michael Austin [mailto:miaustin@bellsouth.net]C* >> Cristopher Smith has as his "by-line" : >> >> /usr/bin/perl -e 'aB >> print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >> 'G >> So I thought I would test it on my OpenVMS version of PERL.  Resultse >> were interesting... >[snip]sD >> Backslash found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "xc4\"5 >> Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.t >> %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abortr: >I'd have expected this.  It's a non-portable signature ;)  7 Sure it is, you just haven't done the porting work ;-).   J >Unfortunately, my job doesn't presently allow me the privilege of workingH >with Perl under VMS.  Neither do I have it on my VAXen at home, so.. :)  J I find that if you install it they will come, i.e., it's too nifty to sit G unused for very long.  Intrepid OpenVMS Perl hackers (or wannabees) are=3 invited to see the Perl section in the OpenVMS FAQ.n  J >On a more interesting note, I wonder whether it would be possible to make >both Bourne and DCL take it?=  J Well, DCL does fine by turning the outside single quotes into doubles and " doubling up all the internal ones:  Q $ perl -e "print((~""\x95\xc4\xe3""^""Just Another Perl Hacker."").""\x08!\n"");"D  Not Another Perl Hacker!c  C but I don't think that'll run anywhere else.  This version, though:n  Q $ perl -e "print((~qq/\x95\xc4\xe3/^qq/Just Another Perl Hacker./).qq/\x08!\n/);"h  Not Another Perl Hacker!   6 oughta run on anything with a command line interface.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:59:27 GMT $ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>B Subject: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses) Message-ID: <3B281AFF.21BD22FD@wi.rr.com>(   Zowie!!!  J Twenty years ago, I was still a few years away from learning how to drive!  G [Note for our overseas friends: In the States, we usually take driver'sb education courses at age 16.]   O I've had a feeling for a long time that I was/am one of the youngest people who9M reads comp.os.vms regularly.  At most storage events, I'm always the youngestCO person there by about ten years.  I checked out the web page with photos of then recentK gathering at the DFW users group and, man, there were a lot of "old timers"a there.  ;^)o   Am I the only VMS pup? :^)  P I realize that not very many folks in my generation have decided to have a large partK of their career revolve around VMS.  It seems like everyone in my age group  touched G VMS in college ("Duhhh, I remember programming in FORTRAN on a VAX wheneL I was college." is a typical remark) and then moved on to specialize in some other platform.nQ I have a lot of techie friends my age who are Novell gurus, Cisco gurus, NT gurusa and evenN some Solaris gurus.  But I can't think of anyone my age who knows a great deal	 about VMS- and the hardware it runs on.   Comments anyone?  9 -Scott, VMS guru, storage guru, young whippersnapper  :^)s   Dan O'Reilly wrote:c  H > Actually, I have this someplace, back from Way Back When in my days atL > Digital many moons ago (gad, nearly 20 years!).  Lemme see if I can dig it > up.e >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:52:21 +0000 (UTC)M  From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalidF Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses* Message-ID: <9g9cdk$7ln$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>  % Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> wrote:t
 : Zowie!!!  L : Twenty years ago, I was still a few years away from learning how to drive!  - I think I was busy teaching myself to read...n  M : I've had a feeling for a long time that I was/am one of the youngest peoplea$ : who reads comp.os.vms regularly.  G : At most storage events, I'm always the youngest person there by abouteL : ten years.  I checked out the web page with photos of the recent gatheringM : at the DFW users group and, man, there were a lot of "old timers" there ;^)    : Am I the only VMS pup? :^)  F Probably not - I'm 24 and appear to have accidently become chairperson( of an embryonic DECUS LUG here in Perth.  J : I have a lot of techie friends my age who are Novell gurus, Cisco gurus,' : NT gurus and even some Solaris gurus. E : But I can't think of anyone my age who knows a great deal about VMS- : and the hardware it runs on.  G Mmm, I'm an ex-Novell driver & now fit more into the Solaris guru role.j   : Comments anyone?  K Nothing that hasn't been said before. Compaq needs to promote VMS and AlphaoN a whole lot more. Especially in Western Australia... two months ago I assisted@ a site in migrating to Solaris on an E450 from VMS on an AS2100.H Reason for the migration was their primary application had an EOL on VMS announcement made.F I work for a largish systems integrator - no-one here has any specific VMS knowledge.   D. -- :! I don't get mad.... I get stabby.O   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:20:30 +1000u4 From: "Jonathan Ridler" <jonathan.ridler@compaq.com>/ Subject: Re: Problem with JUMP from FREEWARE CD 3 Message-ID: <7zSV6.1448$fi2.42307@news.cpqcorp.net>b  ? "Chris Sharman" <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk> wrote in messageu( news:3B274380.1437ACA5@CCAgroup.co.uk... > Chris Sharman wrote:F > > I've done some work on jump for my own purposes, and emailed it toC > > Jonathan Ridler, but I've had no response. If the above doesn'te( > That's untrue, sorry - I was confused.E > Jonathan was at Compaq last September - I haven't more recent info.a  E I'm still with Compaq -- though it means I rarely read the news theseAB days. It also means I am no longer involved with The University ofC Melbourne, where I wrote JUMP, and where it still resides. However,-C I'm still in contact with the Uni folks, so I'll see what I can do.S  F As for the problem Bob is experiencing, I'm interested to see that theF target username is on a remote node (via DECnet). I did not write JUMPL with this in mind and do not recall testing it, but that may be the problem.G Bob, was this working previously? What has changed that you can recall?h   Cheers,k	 Jonathan.a   Jonathan Ridlerk Business Critical Consultant Compaq Computer Australia-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:37:44 -0400 ( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>6 Subject: Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk.+ Message-ID: <3B281568.CDBABC15@bigfoot.com>$  I They had already been sent, but didn't show up for a while, leading me tol; believe that they were never sent.  How do you cancel that?o   HM   Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: > >sL > > Sorry for the many posts.  The newsgroup server claimed to have an error+ > > while receiving, but I guess it didn't.d > >  > 4 > you could have tried cancelling all but the first.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:37:45 GMTi$ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>6 Subject: Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk.) Message-ID: <3B2815E9.37FA4ECC@wi.rr.com>i  @ I believe one of the main components you will need to accomplish  that task is a "flux capacitor".   -s ;^)   Hamlyn Mootoo wrote:  K > They had already been sent, but didn't show up for a while, leading me toe= > believe that they were never sent.  How do you cancel that?e >  > HM >. > Tim Llewellyn wrote: >e > > Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: > > >oN > > > Sorry for the many posts.  The newsgroup server claimed to have an error- > > > while receiving, but I guess it didn't.2 > > >  > > 6 > > you could have tried cancelling all but the first.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:02:47 -0400@( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>6 Subject: Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk.+ Message-ID: <3B281B47.B8142F6A@bigfoot.com>u   My DeLorean is in the shop.f :)   HM     Scott Vieth wrote:  B > I believe one of the main components you will need to accomplish" > that task is a "flux capacitor". >k > -s ;^) >. > Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: >cM > > They had already been sent, but didn't show up for a while, leading me top? > > believe that they were never sent.  How do you cancel that?o > >  > > HM > >h > > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >f > > > Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: > > > > P > > > > Sorry for the many posts.  The newsgroup server claimed to have an error/ > > > > while receiving, but I guess it didn't.s > > > >i > > >a8 > > > you could have tried cancelling all but the first.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:07:01 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i6 Subject: Re: Problem with large queue lengths on disk.' Message-ID: <3B282A55.83DB0A35@fsi.net>t   Scott Vieth wrote: > B > I believe one of the main components you will need to accomplish" > that task is a "flux capacitor".  & ...or maybe just build an interocitor.   -- h David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:01:23 GMTm2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Problems with V7.3?3 Message-ID: <7MOV6.1436$fi2.41803@news.cpqcorp.net>n   ..J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message+ :news:009FD77D.667D6E60@SendSpamHere.ORG... 7 :...Has anybody installed V7.3 on a Rawhide machine?...m :...Bugchecks in PCI_SUPPORT.-     Current firmware?-  &   Which device driver is on the stack?     CLUE CRASH output?     Minimal bootstrap?  H   If a minimal bootstrap is not feasible, what is the PCI configuration?  H   Is this a case of a key file getting clobbered during the V7.3 upgradeG   due to problems between the upgrade and specific ECO kits?  (Details  G   and ways to avoid this problem during the upgrade are in the OpenVMS bJ   cover letter, and the fix for this particular case most likely involves )   applying an upgrade from V7.3 to V7.3.)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:05:31 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)   Subject: Re: Problems with V7.3?0 Message-ID: <009FD7A2.C08ED418@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <lFNV6.248796$Z2.2877393@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes:CJ >Is this causing a non-running system, a crashing system or just bugchecks
 >being loggeds >eL >What version of the SRM console are you running, I was told you had to have >V6.0r  # V5.9 is what was shipped with V7.3 n  0 The system is crashing with INVEXCEPTN bugcheck.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMI             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:34:20 -04007> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>  Subject: RE: Problems with V7.3?K Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DC120@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>a  E I am in the mist of a backup/image/ver of my 7.2-1 system disk on an  B AlphaServer 4100 5/553 with 2 CPUs and about 3 gigs of memory; in @ preparation to upgrade to 7.3.  I also use volume shadowing for ! both system disk and other disks.-  ? I will drop a note, once I find out how this goes on this box.    @ My upgrade on an AlphaStation 200 4/166 had a few minor problemsB (3D Open software enabled with a non-supported graphics card), but' otherwise been ok for about a week now.l   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadwaye Albany, NY  12204  USAn 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com-  * "I post personal opinion only, and all the* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my* views in no way represent my employer(s)." > -----Original Message-----@ > From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG]( > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 8:05 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu > Subject: Problems with V7.3? >  > = > Has anybody installed V7.3 on a Rawhide machine?  (AS1200,   > 533au, etc.)  > > (hint, if SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_1605 appears with SDA SHOW EXEC,  > this is you!)u > - > If so, I'd like to hear your experiences.  r >  > --9 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001       > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
 >            r@ > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are  > named after them.a >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:26:55 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)n  Subject: Re: Problems with V7.3?0 Message-ID: <009FD7BE.E34F6399@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <7MOV6.1436$fi2.41803@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: >...K >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in messagee, >:news:009FD77D.667D6E60@SendSpamHere.ORG...8 >:...Has anybody installed V7.3 on a Rawhide machine?... >:...Bugchecks in PCI_SUPPORT. >M >  Current firmware? >r' >  Which device driver is on the stack?i >  >  CLUE CRASH output?e >a >  Minimal bootstrap?  > I >  If a minimal bootstrap is not feasible, what is the PCI configuration?  >1I >  Is this a case of a key file getting clobbered during the V7.3 upgradecH >  due to problems between the upgrade and specific ECO kits?  (Details H >  and ways to avoid this problem during the upgrade are in the OpenVMS K >  cover letter, and the fix for this particular case most likely involves c* >  applying an upgrade from V7.3 to V7.3.)   Too bad that didn't work!  :(/  G One of the power supplies is currently reporting on the console that itrF is failing.  I've ordered another and will install it, hopefully, nextF week.  I'd rather keep the unit powered off in not run the risk of anyH sort of system problems if the supply has a catastrophic failure.  Yeah," I know it's designed not to but...    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM,            0O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.N   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:04:41 -0400 > From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>  Subject: RE: Problems with V7.3?K Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DC124@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>g  A My installation of OpenVMS Alpha 7.3 on a 1605 routined machine,  = (an AlphaServer 4100 5/533 with 2 CPUs and 5 gigs of memory) h= went in without any problems.  It was a clean console and OS s= upgrade for me, on this non-Galaxy and standalone system froma OpenVMS Alpha 7.2-1.  D Further,  this system's volume shadowed system disk and other disks E are reshadowing as I type.  And, I think I am seeing improved shadow g@ server performance.  I am seeing about 780 I/Os sustained being @ done by the shadow_server out to 4 KGPSAs and 6 pairs of HSG80s.  C I think I will have to boot my 7.2-1 disk and reshadow to see what u@ the difference is.  I faintly recall getting only about half as  much at 7.2-1.  B I guess time will tell.  I am away tomorrow, so perhaps on Friday & I will know more, as I play with it.     :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadway  Albany, NY  12204e USA  518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.como  * "I post personal opinion only, and all the* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my* views in no way represent my employer(s)."   > -----Original Message-----@ > From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG]( > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 8:05 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come > Subject: Problems with V7.3? >  > = > Has anybody installed V7.3 on a Rawhide machine?  (AS1200, : > 533au, etc.)  > > (hint, if SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_1605 appears with SDA SHOW EXEC,  > this is you!)> > - > If so, I'd like to hear your experiences.  s >  > --9 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     e > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
 >            t@ > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are  > named after them.l >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:59:29 GMT>" From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@ewilts.org>, Subject: Re: Program to emulate HTTPs POSTs?< Message-ID: <lMVV6.48239$V6.2481583@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>   Marty Kuhrt wrote:  E > Does anyone know of a handy standalone 3GL program to do HTTP POSTsrC > via SSL?   I'm looking to find a program to test some forms on myaD > Apache webserver (CSWS V1.1) running on VMS (G7.3).  I'm trying to9 > emulate someone filling out a form on a secure webpage.e  K What we've done on Linux is to use curl.  The curl sources have a bunch of tI ifdef vms lines in it, but I don't know of anywhere where I can locate a aG curl distribution that's easy to build (since we don't have tools like t
 autoconf).  , Has anyone built curl for VMS?  Any catches?   -- - Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:16:23 -0500u1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>- Subject: Re: set ho/mop3' Message-ID: <3B27BC07.EB13A9B1@fsi.net>\   Robert Deininger wrote:a > < > In article <3B274003.D53E9D67@wxs.nl>, Maarten van Tilburg > <mtilburg@wxs.nl> wrote: > >  > > /MOPF > >    Connects your system to a remote system using the MOP protocol. > >O
 > >    Formatp > > # > >       SET HOST/MOP  client-namee > J > Yes.  But I've never been able to make it DO anything.  We have some DECH > 3000 systems that seem to support some kind of MOP remote console, forI > example.  But SET HOST/MOP  from another system can't connect, and I'veaH > tried many combinations of the command and console settings on the DEC > 3000.o > ? > Any examples of useful, functional SET HOST/MOP applications?l  @ In my LOGIN.COM, I have this old hold-over from a DECnet-V site:  4 $! MOPP         :== SET HOST/MOP/CIRC=CSMACD-0/ADDR=3 $ MOPP          :== MC NCP CONN VIA SVA-0 PHYS ADDR   G The uncommented form is for DECnet-IV, of course. The circuit name mustv= be adjusted per system; so it's not as useful as it could be.a  , In either case, however, you can then issue:   $ MOPP 08-00-2B-00-DC-EF-AB    ...or similar.   -- e David J. Dachterar dba DJE SystemsO http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:29:34 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: set ho/mopoL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1406010129340001@user-2ive61a.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3B27BC07.EB13A9B1@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"0 <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote::A > > Any examples of useful, functional SET HOST/MOP applications?  > B > In my LOGIN.COM, I have this old hold-over from a DECnet-V site: > 6 > $! MOPP         :== SET HOST/MOP/CIRC=CSMACD-0/ADDR=5 > $ MOPP          :== MC NCP CONN VIA SVA-0 PHYS ADDRt  A So far, it just doesn't work.  I still have to go through Brian'sa checklist, though.   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:37:28 +0100e- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> ' Subject: Show Intrusion: strange outputD1 Message-ID: <3B277AA8.86C763A9@BlueBubble.UK.Com>i   Gentle people,  I one of my clients has observed strange output from "Show Intrusion" aftercG upgrading system to VMS 7.2-1H.  This is on a GS140 and is consistently 
 reproducible.   I Intentionally (or otherwise :-) triggering intrusion detection using both @ Telnet and DECnet Set Host results e.g. in the following output:    < (using Telnet to trigger:  IP address intentionally changed)   $ Show IntrusionA Intrusion       Type       Count        Expiration         Sourcen Information: "!AS"I NETWORK      SUSPECT       1    8-JUN-2001 14:50:04.61   xxx.yyy.100.88::  TELNET_86756458i   (and using DECnet to trigger)  $ Show IntrusionA Intrusion       Type       Count        Expiration         Sources Information: "!AS"L NETWORK      SUSPECT       2   12-JUN-2001 16:50:23.65   LOCAL:.ALP1::MMOUSE    " Note the lines: Information: "!AS"  C This does not happen on a VMS 7.2-1 system I have here.  There's no 
 "Information"  part.-  L I've searched through the patch kits for VMS 7.2-1 and 7.2-1H, but not found any mention of this.  4 More information:  Sys$System:CIA.Exe is as follows:  M Analyze Image                                13-JUN-2001 09:27:57.98   Page 1m SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]CIA.EXE;1
 ANALYZ A07-04e  # This is an OpenVMS Alpha image file. IMAGE HEADER 	Fixed Header Informatione  ' 		image format major id: 3, minor id: 0, 		header block count: 2o% 		image type: executable (EIHD$K_EXE). 		I/O channel count: default 		I/O pagelet count: default- 		Symbol Vector Virtual Address: %X'00000000'  		Symbol Vector Size: 0 bytes / 		Virtual Memory Block Size: 65536 (BPAGE = 16) - 		Fixup Section Virtual Address: %X'00050000'n 		linker flags:  			(0)  EIHD$V_LNKDEBUG  0 			(1)  EIHD$V_LNKNOTFR  0 			(2)  EIHD$V_NOP0BUFS  0 			(3)  EIHD$V_PICIMG    1 			(4)  EIHD$V_P0IMAGE   0 			(5)  EIHD$V_DBGDMT    1 			(6)  EIHD$V_INISHR    0 			(7)  EIHD$V_XLATED    0 			(8)  EIHD$V_BIND_CODE 0 			(9)  EIHD$V_BIND_DATA 0 			(10) EIHD$V_MKTHREADS 0 			(11) EIHD$V_UPCALLS   0 			(12) EIHD$V_OMV_READY 0 			(13) EIHD$V_EXT_BIND_ 0# 		system version (major/minor): 3.0s< 		system version array information: (Image / Current System)( 			SYS$K_MEMORY_MANAGEMENT : (3.0 / 3.0)( 			SYS$K_PROCESS_SCHED     : (2.0 / 2.0)( 			SYS$K_SECURITY          : (2.0 / 2.0)* 			SYS$K_STABLE            : (1.64 / 1.64)* 			SYS$K_SHELL             : (1.64 / 1.64)   	Image Activation Informatione  ' 		first transfer address:  %X'00010608' ' 		second transfer address: %X'00000000's' 		third transfer address:  %X'00000000'v  5 	Global Symbol Table & Debug Symbol Table Information   + 		debug symbol table VBN:  0, byte count: 0r- 		global symbol table VBN: 0, record count: 0n0 		debug module/psect table VBN: 0, byte count: 0  ! 	Image Identification Information    		image name: "CIA"a# 		image file identification: "X-18".4 		image file build identification: "X717-0050140000"*  		link date/time: 18-MAY-2000 00:56:20.19! 		linker identification: "A11-39"m       Any ideas ?  Bug ?  	 Roy Omonds Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:35:16 -0400t4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>+ Subject: Re: Show Intrusion: strange outputa, Message-ID: <9g90s6$8i85$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  : "Roy Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message+ news:3B277AA8.86C763A9@BlueBubble.UK.Com...y > Gentle people,   >n$ > Note the lines: Information: "!AS"   This is a bug, as expected.p  E Someone added a message to a message file and linked to wrong messagei file or something in that vein.l  $ Your CSC should have a fix for this.  
 Sincerely,  - mark-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:22:27 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>( Subject: Re: Streaming of multiple files5 Message-ID: <1010613191337.4229A-100000@Ives.egh.com>L  5 On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists wrote:   ) > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, John Santos wrote:w > , > >+On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Peter Weaver wrote: > [...] I > >+> If the application can work with SYS$PIPE then you can do somethingt > [...]nH > >+> But I tried this with PRINT and PRINT did not like using SYS$PIPE. > >+> 1 > >+> You could also create a temporary file like  > >+> 7 > >+>     $ APPEND HEADER.PS,MAIN.PS,TRAILER.PS TEMP.PS ! > >+>     $ PRINT TEMP.PS /DELETEn > >+> J > >+> For some reason I see people who say they want to avoid the overhead= > >+> of creating a temporary file and they use PIPE instead.  > B >  Really: at least no problem with saved (not deleted) temporary # > files when the command "crashes".J >  > >+> But IMHO PIPEm: > >+> is a bigger overhead than creating a temporary file. > * >  Why ? The subprocess creation ? May be. > G > >+Huh?  If PIPE worked, it would have to work by creating a temporarye > >+file, [...]  > 	 >  Huh ??a@ >  That not first time, when have express here my surprise about; > the fact that PIPE may work with intermediate files... ;>o > = >  Say us, is that by instance your self-suggestion based of t > the DOS knowledge ?? >  -:)  D This is all theoretical, of course!  I haven't actually tried it ;-)  = But ... I think I vaguely knew that PIPE sometimes makes temp > files to pass info between the PIPE'd programs, but doesn't it? delete the temp files itself?  If could in fact make a suitable-> temp file (concatenating the 3 .PS files) and then passed that? temp file to PRINT, wouldn't PRINT just look up the temp file's:? file ID, etc., and insert it as a new entry on the print queue,o< and then exit, at which point, PIPE would immediately delete? the temp file?  (Long before the print symbiont would have timee; to open it and start printing it, even if it were idle, the? temp file would be gone!)S   >  Regards - Gotfryd >  > --  G > =====================================================================aH > $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - > 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME 0 > $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plG > =====================================================================?  @ Or maybe that was your point!  (Gotfryd, I often find your postsB difficult to read, but usually worth the effort.  And your English, is much better than many native speakers :-)   -- m John Santos. Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jun 2001 23:09 CDTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)m( Subject: Re: Streaming of multiple files- Message-ID: <13JUN200123094196@gerg.tamu.edu>H  $ John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes...> }But ... I think I vaguely knew that PIPE sometimes makes temp? }files to pass info between the PIPE'd programs, but doesn't itH@ }delete the temp files itself?  If could in fact make a suitable? }temp file (concatenating the 3 .PS files) and then passed thata@ }temp file to PRINT, wouldn't PRINT just look up the temp file's@ }file ID, etc., and insert it as a new entry on the print queue,= }and then exit, at which point, PIPE would immediately delete @ }the temp file?  (Long before the print symbiont would have time< }to open it and start printing it, even if it were idle, the }temp file would be gone!) }--  }John Santos  < If you don't wan't to worry about stray temp files, then use   $ copy a.ps,b.ps,c.ps temp.ps  $ print/delete temp.ps  ; which will cause the print to delete it for you after it is  printed.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jun 2001 12:20:42 -0500& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org>, Subject: Re: Training sites for vms training, Message-ID: <m3iti0b8k5.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>  2 On 21 Sivan 5761, chris_c_essex@hotmail.com wrote:  H > I'm looking for some web sites that will provide intermediate training
 > for VMS.E > I've looked at several sites but to no avail. What I need is a sitev" > that will show how dec/vms works4 > plus help on using the commands at a system level. >  > Thanks for any help provided.   F I just completed a VMS course from MindIQ <http://www.mindiq.com>.  ItF wasn't too bad.  They just took over Global Knowledge's VMS courses, I believe. --  H Charles Sebold                                       22nd of Sivan, 5761>       Systems Specialist, LCMS - Office of Information Systems=         *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***s=         *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***p -- I'm your huckleberry.a    -- Doc Holliday, "Tombstone"n   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jun 2001 12:49:32 -0500& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org>, Subject: Re: Training sites for vms training, Message-ID: <m3ae3cb783.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>  ' On 22 Sivan 5761, Charles Sebold wrote:   @ >> I'm looking for some web sites that will provide intermediateH >> training for VMS.  I've looked at several sites but to no avail. WhatG >> I need is a site that will show how dec/vms works plus help on using " >> the commands at a system level. >> o  >> Thanks for any help provided. > H > I just completed a VMS course from MindIQ <http://www.mindiq.com>.  ItH > wasn't too bad.  They just took over Global Knowledge's VMS courses, I
 > believe.  = Sorry, I missed the fact that you were looking for web sites.R  D I don't know about training but the VMS documentation site is pretty good.D  / <http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html>e -- VH Charles Sebold                                       22nd of Sivan, 5761>       Systems Specialist, LCMS - Office of Information Systems=         *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***n=         *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***m --= "The most personable person over there is the mailer-daemon."?     -- Anonymous Coward on Slashdot   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:48:13 +0300I From: bulten@tebesir.com- Subject: Ucretsiz Online OSS Danismanligi !!!1- Message-ID: <0GEW004IGDQNJ5@mx.west.saic.com>e  E E=F0itimle ilgili en kapsaml=FD bilgileri i=E7eren Tebe=FEir.com'un =sD =D6SS Rehberi, 2001-=D6SS'ye girecek olan =F6=F0renciler i=E7in haz=5 =FDrlanm=FD=FE tam kapsaml=FD ve eksiksiz bir kaynak.t  F Tebe=FEir.com'da 13 Haziran 2001 tarihinden itibaren =DDstanbul Bilgi=C  =DCniversitesi'nin tecr=FCbeli e=F0itim dan=FD=FEman=FD Oktay Ayd=tE =FDn Pazartesi ve =C7ar=FEamba g=FCnleri 17:00 - 18:00 saatleri aras=iF =FDnda ONLINE olarak ziyaret=E7ilere =FCcretsiz =D6SS rehberli=F0i ya=	 pacak.=20   F =D6SS Rehberi, s=FDnava girecek olan =F6=F0rencileri bu zorlu maraton=F un ba=FElang=FDc=FDndan biti=FEine kadarki t=FCm a=FEamalarda uzman k=4 i=FEilerin fikir ve =F6nerileri ile y=F6nlendiriyor.  D  =D6SS'ye ba=FEvururken yap=FDlmas=FD gereken i=FElemlerden s=FDnav=F =FDn kapsam=FD ve b=F6l=FCmlerine, s=FDnav tarihinde yan=FDn=FDzda bu=F lundurman=FDz gereken belgelerden cevap ka=F0=FDd=FDn=FDn doldurulmas=F =FDna, s=FDnav esnas=FDnda dikkat edilmesi gereken noktalardan y=FCks=F ek puan almak i=E7in =F6=F0rencilere verilen ipu=E7lar=FDna, =D6SS pu=F an hesaplamas=FDndan AOBP'nin katk=FD pay=FDna, 2001-=D6SYS Tercih Fo=F rmunun Doldurulmas=FDndan =D6SS i=FElemleri tarih =E7izelgesine kadar=F  bir=E7ok bilgi i=E7eren =D6SS rehberi sadece s=FDnava girecek adayla=F r=FDn de=F0il ayn=FD zamanda velilerin de yararlanmalar=FD gereken en=  kapsaml=FD k=FDlavuz.  F =DCstelik  =D6SS Rehberi de www.tebesir.com 'un di=F0er t=FCm servisl= eri gibi =DCCRETS=DDZ...  F K=FDsacas=FD =D6SS Rehberi 2001-=D6SS'ye girecek olan t=FCm =F6=F0ren=B cilerin ve velilerinin mutlaka ziyaret etmeleri gereken bir b=F6l=F =FCm. Tek yapman=FDz gereken www.tebesir.com/ossrehberi adresine girm=C ek, geri kalan her=FEeyi biz zaten sizin i=E7in d=FC=FE=FCnd=FCk...   F *********************************************************************= ************F E=F0er listeden =E7=FDkmak istiyorsan=FDz bulten@tebesir.com adresine=B  REMOVE konu ba=FEl=FDkl=FD (subjectli) bir mail atabilirsiniz ...  F *********************************************************************= ************F If you want to unsubscribe from this group, please send an e-mail to =9 bulten@tebesir.com by writing REMOVE to its subject line.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:13:19 GMT " From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@ewilts.org>& Subject: Re: V7.3 backup "improvement"< Message-ID: <jZVV6.48243$V6.2482552@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>   John Santos wrote:    J > The reason the mod date is important is the change to BACKUP in VMS V6.2G > (IIRC) regarding incremental backups.  If the directory's mod date isTI > more recent than its backup date, all files in the directory (includinglI > any subdirectories) get backed up.  According to the FAQ (item MGMT35),tF > this was done specifically so that incremental restores will work ifJ > a directory was renamed.  (Renaming changes the mod date, as it should.)  I Actually, I believe the FAQ is wrong.  I'm one of the guilty people that :G beat on DEC to fix Backup with a specific case, and that was if a root mL directory on a disk got deleted between an image and an incremental backup, I an operation we did far too often at a job I last worked.  What happened oJ was during a full disk restore, the root directory would be restored, and H then not deleted during the incremental phase, and we saw several cases K where we filled disk trying to restore it.  Unfortunately we did quarterly hF disaster recovery tests that necessitated a lot of full disk restores.  K In my opinion, the fix was worse than the problem.  We had workarounds for  I the original problem (which involved manually verifying root directories uI and deleting them between the image and incremental restores).  We don't  2 have really good workarounds for the current mess.  K Another application that caused grief was Pathworks/Mac.  This application DH actually does set the mod dates of directory files whenever a directory J changes either by new file creation or file deletion.  This can be a good H thing at times but obviously causes havoc with past and current backups.  D > For systems with gigabytes of data, this is of major significance.F > E.G. a disk-to-disk backup of thousands of mostly static files on anC > Alpha 4100 dual-processor system with HSZ70-based SCSI disks wentOD > from a couple of minutes to well over an hour.  The system offlineG > time went from about an hour and 15 mins. per day, which they weren'thB > really happy with, to 2:25, which really pissed them off, solelyD > because of file creations in a higher level directory which causedG > backup to back up every file instead of the handful that had changed.h  H Agreed!  I do realize that Compaq is working hard to try and solve this I issue, but I believe they need to work in the real world for a while and D0 see the pain they're causing with these changes.           .../Ed   -- s Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:53:59 GMT22 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VMSTARt3 Message-ID: <bFOV6.1435$fi2.42092@news.cpqcorp.net>   L In article <9g82f1$pf2$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "John McDen" <jj@jj.moc> writes:  2 :Have anybody used this utility called "VMSTAR"...  9   Yes, there are a number of folks that have used vmstar.r  9 :...I am trying to tar the file on VMS but the problem isnJ :it doesn't backup the contents of the sub dir, it creates the sub dir but. :does not copies the files within the sub dir.  G   When posting a question, please see the OpenVMS FAQ for the sorts of )F   information that is typically required to answer the question -- theF   introductory section of the FAQ provides a list of the typical sorts   of questions...e  <   Now, since I've used vmstar for this and other purposes...  /   Exactly what vmstar command(s) are you using?/  G   Exactly which OpenVMS version and which vmstar version are you using?   J   If the version you are using is not the version of vmstar that is found J   on the OpenVMS Freeware V5.0 kit or a more recent version, please first #   try upgrading to a newer version.   C   Have you read through AAAREADME.TXT?  (This file provides varioussE   examples of vmstar, and specifically examples that are referencing 1&   heirarchies of OpenVMS directories.)  J   The brute-force solution involves using BACKUP to create a saveset, and K   then using zip.  (The internal structure of a tar archive uses a limited  C   design, and one that includes few safeguards for data integrity.)y  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:26:58 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>. Subject: Re: VMSTAR ' Message-ID: <3B27BE82.BA93F501@fsi.net>o   John McDen wrote:t >  > Hellos > J > Have anybody used this utility called "VMSTAR" if yes please I need someM > help in this regards. I am trying to tar the file on VMS but the problem is K > it doesn't backup the contents of the sub dir, it creates the sub dir but / > does not copies the files within the sub dir.  > 7 > Please let me know if somebody can help me in this ..a   $ TAR :==ddcu:<dir>VMSTAR  $ TAR -CF tarfile [...]*.*  @ Modify the wildcarded file specification ("[...]*.*") as needed.% "tarfile" is the desired archive name:G "ddcu:<dir>" indicates the disk/directpry where the VMSTAR image lives.i  E Hope this helps. "$ TAR -?" should display the available command line  options and syntax.r   --   David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:30:43 -0300G) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br) Subject: Re: VMSTAR L Message-ID: <OF890E8AD4.5CBB7B34-ON03256A6A.006B09B3@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  ? Would be possible to create the comand BACKUP/TAR  with all the3A parameters (ex. /PARAMETER=(xvf) )  or BACKUP/TAR/XVF (...)  ????m   Regardsr   FC        B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> em 13/06/2001 16:26:58  = Favor responder a "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com        Assunto: Re: VMSTAR      John McDen wrote:  >: > Hello1 >)J > Have anybody used this utility called "VMSTAR" if yes please I need someJ > help in this regards. I am trying to tar the file on VMS but the problem isK > it doesn't backup the contents of the sub dir, it creates the sub dir buty/ > does not copies the files within the sub dir.o >a7 > Please let me know if somebody can help me in this ..V   $ TAR :==ddcu:<dir>VMSTARe $ TAR -CF tarfile [...]*.*  @ Modify the wildcarded file specification ("[...]*.*") as needed.% "tarfile" is the desired archive name5G "ddcu:<dir>" indicates the disk/directpry where the VMSTAR image lives.t  E Hope this helps. "$ TAR -?" should display the available command line  options and syntax.-   -- David J. Dachtera1 dba DJE Systems1 http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/D  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:33:27 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: VMSTAR ' Message-ID: <3B280657.22D7B182@fsi.net>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > A > Would be possible to create the comand BACKUP/TAR  with all the-C > parameters (ex. /PARAMETER=(xvf) )  or BACKUP/TAR/XVF (...)  ????,   To what end?  G That is, why use tar format for BACKUP savesets? Use tar or BACKUP, butn= not both - or BACKUP to a disk saveset, the "tar" the result.a   -- i David J. DachteraS dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:47:21 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>J> Subject: Re: Xerox DocumentCentre 332/340ST on VMS print queue$ Message-ID: <3b27b566$1@news.si.com>  I >IIRC, all of Xerox's networked copier/printer equipment uses LPR/LPD and  notrL >reverse telnet printing.  At least, the Fiery DFE DocuColor40 and DocuPrint XXXe2 >"monster" copier could only be used with LPR/LPD.   Our Xerox 6135 is fed via LPR. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comtA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.come= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:20:42 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <3B27AEF8.50740545@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:I > Metra has a similar offer - an unlimited monthly pass. The cost dependstJ > on how far you travel; however, the pricing is based on all trips endingJ > in the city, not between stops on the rail lines. Generally, this rangesC > from circa. $100 US to just over $240 US (don't have all the fare=' > schedules handy; so, that's a guess).=  ? In Montreal the bus/metro pass is about $50 canadian per month.F  E In Vancouver, there is a privately operated rail line that has a very N innovative service: insurance. Because they are aware that they operate mostlyM during rush hours, you can buy a monthly insurance (a few dollars) that wouldpL cover the cost of taking a cab during the day should an emergency arise (kidF sick at school etc etc). This outfit seems to be doing quite well with ridership going up.   M Note that Vancouver is a great city because it does not have much in terms of M highway infrastructure, even though it has many sprawling suburbs. So it is ap natural for public transit.0A (It doesn't mean that there aren't many cars or traffic tie ups).   N A good transit authority will work with corporations to make it more palatableL for employees to use public transit. (eg: reroute the bus line to cover that corporation's campus).  L And it is not just "public transit". There are also privately operated busesB etc that link cities. Remember going for a few days in StroudsburgN Pennsylvania and then on the last day I had a lunch near Wall Street. Took theN morning bus from Pennsylvania and was in NYC very quickly. Took subway down toJ Wall Street and there I was. No parking hassles. But most would have takenG their car for such a trip and this is where mentalities have to change.u  F If you know about the public transit infrastructure, then you will see. opportunities where it makes sense to take it.  K Oh, and by the way, I find it interesting that most have no problems taking M the airplane, but are digusted at the thought of taking a bus or subway. TheyeM all are public transit forms. Why is the plane more acceptable ? Because theygK serve you a 7-up during the 1 hour flight, and you get no such service on am half hour subway ride ?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:33:34 -0400.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <3B27B1FC.66A91E70@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote: D > Of course, your anti-petroleum scheme would impoverish most of theJ > population of the arab world and other oil exporters.  But it would make" > you feel better, so that's fine.  K I would call that a radical statement. If the world start to move today, it2H can do so slowly and adapt without a major upheaval, but there must be aK constant pressure to adapt/convert to sustainable energy sources othertwise 0 businesses will revert to their good old selves.  M (example: US car manufacturers reverting to bigger cars as soon as oil proces- go back down).  J Also, consider that the arabs and US oil industries have or will invest inG alternative sources of energy and while the traditional gas station may8B disapear over time, there will still be a need for auto mechanics.  I Did the USA go bankrupt and belly up because the computer age and robots nL eliminated a lot of jobs (or avoided the hring of many more people to handleL rising work). ? Nop. The world adapted relatively smoothly to computers. YouC may not have hundreds of people doing manual accounting for a largetL corporation, but you have hundreds of people fixing Widnows problems at that same corporation.o  K Right now, we are in the process of switching from the manufacturing age totG the information age. And I suspect that the next big change will be the G "energy age" where the world will convert to sustainable lifestyles andqN industries. One needs vision to see this and if you see it and start to act onR it as soon as possible, your nation will be the first to benefit from that change.  L On the other hand, if you stick your head in the sand and assume that all isM fine, when you stick your head out of sand because you just got a big kick inrL the butt, you will be caught with your pants down, unable to convert quicklyN enough while competing countries will have already developped the technologies that make conversion easier.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:48:22 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <3B27B573.35CD072D@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:aD > Because it is *not* a simple business. The models are not accurate2 > because we don't fully understand the processes.  I However, isn't it a FACT that CO2 in the atmosphere does result in globald	 warming ?z  K Isn't it just a question of determining the rates at which CO2 is produced,l9 consumed and hwo much the resulting CO2 warms the earth ?a  L *IF* there is conclusive proof that CO2 levels have risen in the atmosphere,J isn't it perfectly fair to state that the current CO2 production on planet6 earth is greater than Earth's ability to consume CO2 ?  J *IF* the above is true, isn't it correct to state that unless something isF done, CO2 levels will continue to rise ? We may not be able to preventL volcanos, but if we could reduce man made emissions  to a sustainable level," then CO2 levels would stop rising.  M If you allow the CO2 levels to continue to rise, isn't it a given that global=A warming will be a very serious problems some time in the future ?Y  D If you know of a potential problem and do nothing to prevent it fromK happening, you can be accused of negligence. We know CO2 will be problem inaL the future. Any nation that wants to deny this can be accused of negligence.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:03:02 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change' Message-ID: <3B27B8E6.6457621C@fsi.net>e   JF Mezei wrote:m > [snip]% > Why is the plane more acceptable ?    E Ask yourself this question: how would it take you to walk from (wherei# ever you are in Canada) to Chicago?i   ...to pedal it?.   ...to drive it?*   ...to ride a train?*  ? ...to ride a bus (Greyhound, or whatever (if anything) provides=	 service)?y  $ ...to fly your own private aircraft?  " ...to fly the commercial airlines?  E ...in order of increasing expedience (though flying yourself vs. "the*? (un)friendly skies" depends on what aircraft you have), but notc necessarily increasing expense.   B As to how "public" the airlines are, consider that the "public" in< "public transit" generally reflects some level of governmentF participation. Even privatized "public" transit still has a connectionF to the government, either a contract or a permit or both. The airlinesE are governed by the FAA, and many civilian airfields are owned by therH FAA; however, the federal government is neither required nor expected toH provide for air travel, where municipal, county and sometimes even stateG governments may be expected (or required by local ordinance) to providek for public transit.t  C Perhaps it is incorrect to distinguish between "public" transit andl" "mass" transit in this way. Dunno.  B In the end, people will live a good distance from (work, shopping,G etc.), where ever they want to live. This will not change. So I suggesteC that the focus be placed instead on developing vehicles that do notmH require combustible fuels, only plastics and petroleum-based lubricants,H at most. This single invention, when/if it finally appears, will do moreG to revolutionize travel in the 21st century than any proposal currentlyr# on the table anywhere in the world.   7 ...unless, of course, Scotty can just beam you there...e   -- t David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:10:24 -0400c; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>i  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change$ Message-ID: <3b27bacc$1@news.si.com>  I >And do you consider it higher standard of living when people have become  suchH >that they resent being in public places with other humans and feel much moreL >confortable being alone in their car, isolated from the rest of the world ?  D I also don't consider it a higher standard of living when people are7 vituperative because others don't share their opinions.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comhA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comy= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:07:34 -0500k1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change' Message-ID: <3B27B9F6.C3839CD0@fsi.net>n  C If you can make all this happen, then you should seriously consider-F emigrating and running for public office or whatever position would be$ empowered to make this all happen...  $ rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote: > ] > In article <3B27682B.2EC9541D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e' > >rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote:l > >>` > >> In article <3B26778D.BD00DE39@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >> >JF Mezei wrote:p > >> >> [snip]Q > >> >> Just because you don't have a car anymore and rely on good public transitoS > >> >> doesn't mean that your standard of living has gone down. In fact, you couldMS > >> >> consider it has gone up because you no longer have to worry about accidentst > >> >> while driving, > >> >E > >> >There have been some pretty spectacular mass-transit accidents,  > >> >remember!v > >> [snip]  > >> >U > >> >> And do you consider it higher standard of living when people have become such T > >> >> that they resent being in public places with other humans and feel much moreS > >> >> confortable being alone in their car, isolated from the rest of the world ?0 > >> >N > >> >It's still better than only getting three or four hours a sleep each dayI > >> >because you're spending 6 or more hours a day walking / pedalling /lH > >> >riding mass transit. Whaddaya gonna do - work, eat, sleep, repeat? > >> >J > >> >JF, mass transit - even foot power - is fine for those who can availK > >> >themselves of its benefits. You *MUST* understand, however, that suchrA > >> >folks are the vast minority of urban and suburban dwellers.r > >> >L > >> >These days, working-where-you-live and living-where-you-work is by far > >> >the greater luxury.  > >> >D > >> >People live where the affordable housing is and work where theE > >> >best-paying jobs are. Rarely are these two found within walking-H > >> >distance, nor are they frequently connected by mass transit within* > >> >walking distance of either location. > >> >M > >> >There are, according to the last stat.'s I saw in the The Daily Herald,tM > >> >some 4.5 million commuters in Metro Chicago. Less than 30% of them havenM > >> >the option to use mass transit, based on ridership numbers from the CTA G > >> >(Chicago Transit Authority), Pace (suburban bus system) and MetralG > >> >(Metropolitan Commuter Rail Co. of Northeast Illinois), combined.  > >> > > >> >Home-based biz, anyone?s > >>M > >>  So the public-transport in Chicago is really bad, and should be heavilyhF > >>  improved to allow a reduction in the use of the car, in Chicago. > > 0 > >Let's just say, it's not what it needs to be. > > J > >>  Some years ago, Ciudad Real a city at about 60 miles became a suburbO > >>  of Madrid due to the AVE (high velocity train), it only take half an hourhO > >>  for it to go from the center of one to the center of the other, about theDJ > >>  same time that take from a more near suburb in car at peak time, andG > >>  at 250$/month for as much rides as you like, is cheaper than gas.  > >*J > >Metra has a similar offer - an unlimited monthly pass. The cost dependsK > >on how far you travel; however, the pricing is based on all trips ending K > >in the city, not between stops on the rail lines. Generally, this rangesoD > >from circa. $100 US to just over $240 US (don't have all the fare( > >schedules handy; so, that's a guess). > ( > My one is a guess too, so don't worry. >  > >gS > >>  So what you need is to create a faster, most point public-transit, that wouldsO > >>  increase readership that would reduce the prices, so more people is going( > >>  to use it. > >VD > >The problem is, to keep a lid on costs, public transit does this: > >m, > > 1. Revenue is down and ridership is low.  > > 2. Cut service, raise fares.F > > 3. Ridership goes down due to reduced service and increased fares,2 > >    revenue goes down due to reduced ridership. > > 4. Go to 1.u > >h! > >I call that "terminal spiral".l > E > So the point is not:  "can't be done", is that is not usually done.S >  > >pP > >>  The problem is not that the public transport can't do the job, is that theR > >>  city is build around the idea of cars, and redo it around a public-transport > >>  concept became expensive.V > > B > >Not because it's expensive, although ultimately that may be theK > >fundamental driving factor. The idea is that to "correct" the situation,dG > >you would literally have to wipe the slate clean and start over, alaRG > >Hiroshima or Nagasaki(sp?). Moving businesses, homes, neighborhoods,eJ > >industrial complexes, etc. simply cannot be done without some similarly$ > >cataclysmic form of intervention. > >AH > >I expect to shortly be visited by the "men in black", the guys in the > >white coats, or both... > >l > L > You  need that to get a perfect situation, but no to get a great gain over/ >  the actual situation in a city like Chicago.o > I > just triple the elevated trains lines so it really cover the whole citytM > (not the suburn area) and not only the loop, and a monthly pass that is not1K >  as expensive as taking 4 trips every day like it was at December and you:L >  would get a huge improvement, and at the end you could even finish with a > better bussines. > J > Force to change all the train crossing from at level to underway or withH >  bridges, you would end with faster trains, so you can put more trainsQ > in the same line, and less accidents, pay for the railways in the same way that D > you pay for roads, at the end both are used for the public. So theM >  train-trainfare (that is not done even in europe, the truck companies havefM > too much power, that kind of system would make train transport cheaper than L >  truck) could be reduced at half at least. There is a lot to do to improveK > public transport in Chicago, that don't need to redo the city, only moneysO > at least initial money, althougth could end producing more money that it costtN >  but only in the long run. And usually not for the people that win the money >  now.   0 I usually "bottom post", but I didn't this time.   -- h David J. DachteraR dba DJE SystemsC http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jun 2001 12:15:06 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)d  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <tHrTNYV59G90@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3B27AEF8.50740545@videotron.ca>,  4      JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > O > Note that Vancouver is a great city because it does not have much in terms ofaO > highway infrastructure, even though it has many sprawling suburbs. So it is a> > natural for public transit. C > (It doesn't mean that there aren't many cars or traffic tie ups).e > K      Unfortunately the majority of the Greater Vancouver transit system has H been on strike since April 1 and it appears there's no end in site ( the two sides aren't talking).  H      Car drivers report that traffic is moving smoother since the strike% as there are no buses on the road :-)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:44:05 -0500o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change' Message-ID: <3B27C285.82D7D706@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:a > [snip]M > Right now, we are in the process of switching from the manufacturing age to  > the information age.  G Tonto (to the Lone Ranger upon the duo finding themselves surrounded byl2 hostile natives): "What you mean, 'we', paleface?"  D America, Canada and other countries find themselves in the so-calledF "information" age (a.k.a. the age of the professional paper shufflers,= pencil pushers and web srufers). China, et al, are now in then "information" age.  > Who will do the manufacturing when China, et al, move into the1 paper-shuffling, pencil pushing, web surfing age?i  4 > And I suspect that the next big change will be theI > "energy age" where the world will convert to sustainable lifestyles andr
 > industries.d   Such as?  D I can see that question on Jeopardy: the answer is, "Industries thatC neither consume nor require more fuel or energy than they produce".e  C Who was it again that was working on that perpetual motion machine?y  D > One needs vision to see this and if you see it and start to act onT > it as soon as possible, your nation will be the first to benefit from that change.  H ...and if you can help the world achieve that goal, you will be the next Bill Gates.    -- t David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/k  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.1   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:50:04 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>B  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change' Message-ID: <3B27C3EC.CBF2C0A0@fsi.net>n   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Alan Greig wrote:tF > > Because it is *not* a simple business. The models are not accurate4 > > because we don't fully understand the processes. > K > However, isn't it a FACT that CO2 in the atmosphere does result in globall > warming ?t  H To my admittedly limited knowledge, this has been postulated, been neverF proven to be a cause instead of a result or effect. Elevated levels ofC CO2 have been observed from core samples dating to those times whengG global temperatures were higher than now; however, whether the elevatedtD CO2 levels caused the elevated temperatures or were a result of them1 has, as yet, not been proven conclusively, AFAIK.t  - Of course, and as always, I could be wrong...b   -- d David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:51:53 -0400g5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>e  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change2 Message-ID: <OcMnO8Bwce=GpYzhns5DAPLYXCmM@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:48:22 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >Alan Greig wrote:E >> Because it is *not* a simple business. The models are not accurate 3 >> because we don't fully understand the processes.  > J >However, isn't it a FACT that CO2 in the atmosphere does result in global
 >warming ?  :     No, it is not.  I will cite sources if you would like.   David R. Beattyq   >yL >Isn't it just a question of determining the rates at which CO2 is produced,: >consumed and hwo much the resulting CO2 warms the earth ? >-M >*IF* there is conclusive proof that CO2 levels have risen in the atmosphere,iK >isn't it perfectly fair to state that the current CO2 production on planetD7 >earth is greater than Earth's ability to consume CO2 ?t > K >*IF* the above is true, isn't it correct to state that unless something istG >done, CO2 levels will continue to rise ? We may not be able to prevent M >volcanos, but if we could reduce man made emissions  to a sustainable level,h# >then CO2 levels would stop rising.o >mN >If you allow the CO2 levels to continue to rise, isn't it a given that globalB >warming will be a very serious problems some time in the future ? >yE >If you know of a potential problem and do nothing to prevent it fromtL >happening, you can be accused of negligence. We know CO2 will be problem inM >the future. Any nation that wants to deny this can be accused of negligence.e   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jun 2001 21:03:10 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edue  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change+ Message-ID: <9g8kee$8t2$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>i  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  >Alan Greig wrote:E >> Because it is *not* a simple business. The models are not accurateo3 >> because we don't fully understand the processes.u >nJ >However, isn't it a FACT that CO2 in the atmosphere does result in global
 >warming ?  * All other things being equal this is true.  L >Isn't it just a question of determining the rates at which CO2 is produced,: >consumed and hwo much the resulting CO2 warms the earth ?   The relationship is non-linear.D  M >*IF* there is conclusive proof that CO2 levels have risen in the atmosphere,mK >isn't it perfectly fair to state that the current CO2 production on planetl7 >earth is greater than Earth's ability to consume CO2 ?.   In the short term.  K >*IF* the above is true, isn't it correct to state that unless something isr* >done, CO2 levels will continue to rise ?   > It is possible that somewhere out there is a process that will5 start sucking up CO2 levels and cause a leveling off.y   >We may not be able to preventM >volcanos, but if we could reduce man made emissions  to a sustainable level,e# >then CO2 levels would stop rising.r >eN >If you allow the CO2 levels to continue to rise, isn't it a given that globalB >warming will be a very serious problems some time in the future ?  J No.  All we have to do is pump enough particulates into the air to reflect sunlight back to space.e  L Now that I'm done playing devil's advocate, the relationship /is/ non-linear% but it is also positive and non-zero.d  E We also have unknowns that could be catastrophic, the methane-hydrateeG ice just under the floor of the ocean could cause some serious problemsaE if the certain areas of the oceans warm up enough to melt it in larges< quantities.  And that can be the result of a one time event.  I On the positive side they're developing a vaccine to reduce the number ofpF bugs that produce methane in the bowels of at least some farm animals.  > I find it tiring that the folks who accuse the climatologists C of being dishonest and political turn around and sneer at the fact sF that the estimates have come down over the last 10 years.  It's called" science, and no, it ain't perfect.  H What pissed me off about Bush's original, and I think telling, reaction,0 was that what he said was just plain screw it.    G Clinton signed the treaty contingent on changes, but either didn't caretH enough or was too weak to start in the right direction while pushing for those changes.  2 We're sitting around with our heads in the sand...  G I gave up researching the details of this because I got fed up with thefC swill that is out there, you've got an endowed chair from U. Texas ,C quoting from an non-existant issue of Science, and, best I can tellgD having done a significant search of surrounding years of that issue,C and a web search, the quote itself was, at very best, not from the .B group that was cited and was out of context to the point of being 
 irrelevant.  o  K That quote is cited on a number of other web pages and claimed the NAS was  D warning of an ice age.  Mind you the Cato institute, hardly a hotbedD of one world gov't types,  described the NAS's views on the ice age 7 stories in the 70s as "its usual ambiguous" commentary.g  ; You also have a scientist putting out a criticism of globalhF warming in a conservative political magazine, in which he claims that H doing a 5 year moving average over 20+ years of data will turn a single  spike into a 20 year trend.2  E Quite honestly although what I have read in the Sierra Clubs magazinesF has been pretty decent, I've been afraid to go to the Greenpeace site.  E >If you know of a potential problem and do nothing to prevent it fromaL >happening, you can be accused of negligence. We know CO2 will be problem inM >the future. Any nation that wants to deny this can be accused of negligence.i   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jun 2001 21:15:15 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu   Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change+ Message-ID: <9g8l53$8t2$3@husk.cso.niu.edu>r  1 jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes:2( > <system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote:  J >>Encouraging companies to buy and install new energy efficient equipment F >>on an accellerated schedual via regulation and tax breaks, improvingA >>mass transit, exploring ways of supporting new fuels (it may be D >>most efficient to use methane or methanol as a fuel in fuel cells)F >>reopening research into safe nuclear power (and safer reprocessing),D >>finding ways to encourage developing countries to start with clean >>technologies...o >> >uD >All good ideas, but the political reality is Kyoto.  The only thingD >that the world can agree upon is a plan that's designed to keep CO2D >emissions at their present levels (by IPCC models, this is ruinous)@ >and hurt industrialized Western economies at the expense of the >developing world. >oF >Sometimes, you just have to choose sides.  Either you are on the sideD >of those who would panic us about global warming and force Kyoto on >us or you are not.t  C Either you are on the side that says screw the environment and poor / people who live in coastal areas or you're not.>  J Hmmm, maybe we could tone down the rhetoric (and yes that includes myself,* though I have been trying to keep it down)  G It's called a false dichotomy.  There are plenty of good things that we*B could be doing that would help reduce CO2 and be good for society,D but Bush et al want to bury it in a think tank.  Did Bush talk about& taking /any/ action except more study?   []  J >>Sunspots run on an 11 year cycle, we've seen heating for far longer thanG >>that.  There are no known planetary weather cycles that would accounte >>for the warming.   >Oh really?>  A Yes, really.  There are long term changes and certainly long term A cycles (i.e. the change of the earth's orbit) that exist but nonea  account for the current warming.   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jun 2001 21:18:27 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edun  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change+ Message-ID: <9g8lb3$8t2$4@husk.cso.niu.edu>T  3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:l >JF Mezei wrote:	 >> [snip]rL >> Just because you don't have a car anymore and rely on good public transitN >> doesn't mean that your standard of living has gone down. In fact, you couldN >> consider it has gone up because you no longer have to worry about accidents >> while driving,s >s@ >There have been some pretty spectacular mass-transit accidents,
 >remember! >i >Chicagoans will remember:8 >- The IC crash (commuter trains collided - many deaths)E >- The "L" crash (elevated trains fell from the tracks to the street) # >- Various and sundry bus accidents D >- The day a school bus got smacked by a commuter train in Fox River >Grove  K Total those up against the car deaths that occured in the same time period.   ? >People live where the affordable housing is and work where theo@ >best-paying jobs are. Rarely are these two found within walkingC >distance, nor are they frequently connected by mass transit within & >walking distance of either location.  >cH >There are, according to the last stat.'s I saw in the The Daily Herald,H >some 4.5 million commuters in Metro Chicago. Less than 30% of them haveH >the option to use mass transit, based on ridership numbers from the CTAB >(Chicago Transit Authority), Pace (suburban bus system) and MetraB >(Metropolitan Commuter Rail Co. of Northeast Illinois), combined.   >Home-based biz, anyone?   Urban planning anyone?  E Seattle or Portland have been doing a pretty good job of it recently.i   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jun 2001 21:25:29 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edue  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change+ Message-ID: <9g8lo9$8t2$5@husk.cso.niu.edu>   @ >"Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message  H >> One of the intangibles that surely must be considered in "standard of' >> living" is FREEDOM.  More is better. / >> An excess of coercion corresponds to a lowerlL >> standard of living, and must be balanced against the supposed benefits of >> that coercion.i  F Tell that to the (mostly poor black and hispanic) people who had their@ neighborhoods destroyed in order to put in more 6 lane highways.  ? Tell that to narcoleptics and other handicapped who can't driveM+ and are essentially trapped in their homes.i  C Tell that to the poor who can't afford a car to get to decent jobs, D or can't move into a better neighborhood because it is too far from ? their current job and the only way to travel is via automobile.r   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jun 2001 21:36:23 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edun  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change+ Message-ID: <9g8mcn$8t2$6@husk.cso.niu.edu>y  3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >JF Mezei wrote: >> n >> Alan Greig wrote:G >> > Because it is *not* a simple business. The models are not accurate 5 >> > because we don't fully understand the processes.o >> lL >> However, isn't it a FACT that CO2 in the atmosphere does result in global >> warming ? >lI >To my admittedly limited knowledge, this has been postulated, been neveryG >proven to be a cause instead of a result or effect. Elevated levels ofhD >CO2 have been observed from core samples dating to those times whenH >global temperatures were higher than now; however, whether the elevatedE >CO2 levels caused the elevated temperatures or were a result of thems2 >has, as yet, not been proven conclusively, AFAIK. >k. >Of course, and as always, I could be wrong...  = It may be that the correlation of CO2 to Temperature that is eB historically recorded was causitive most strongly in the T -> CO2 
 direction.  J However, regardless of that it remains true that if you radically increaseI the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere you will reflect more infra-red back b3 to the surface of the earth increasing temperature.b   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Jun 2001 16:20:12 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)   Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change* Message-ID: <9g8hts$r8p$1@lisa.gemair.com>  , In article <tHrTNYV59G90@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>,2 Malcolm Dunnett <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote:. >In article <3B27AEF8.50740545@videotron.ca>, 5 >     JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:- >> -P >> Note that Vancouver is a great city because it does not have much in terms ofP >> highway infrastructure, even though it has many sprawling suburbs. So it is a >> natural for public transit.D >> (It doesn't mean that there aren't many cars or traffic tie ups). >> eL >     Unfortunately the majority of the Greater Vancouver transit system hasI >been on strike since April 1 and it appears there's no end in site ( theu >two sides aren't talking).o >uI >     Car drivers report that traffic is moving smoother since the strikei& >as there are no buses on the road :-) >t  E When I worked in Vancouver off and on a few years back, I was always lG struck by how slow the traffic moved.  You could easily sit in traffic .D 60 minutes going 20 miles during busy times and they don't have nearD the volume of traffic that the US metropolitan areas where you mightG sometimes see similar backups.  Once, while I was in town, there was a hJ bridge under some minor maintenance (down to one lane in one direction vs.I two) on the west side of town and it noticeably effected traffic way out w+ on the far east end due to a ripple effect.n  D Such a great victory for public transportation.  Yet, there was thisB political mantra that they must not build roads and give in to theA horrors of what you saw in the US.  This ignores the reality thate< sitting in a car idling is a great way to produce emissions.  A Vancouver _does_ have great public transporation.  You can easilysE get arround on buses and trains.  Most people don't commit themselvesdB to standing in the rain waiting for a bus all their lives, though.  B One of the locals didn't seem to be infected with the "fear of theA traffic situation in the US" that had paralyzed all road building ? in the area.  He thought the situation was deplorable.  We onceaA calculated, using conservative assumptions, how many people-hourseF were wasted sitting in traffic yearly and translated that to lifetimesD lost.  This took into account a sensible commuting time and added upE only the excess due to the traffic snarl.  I believe we came up with  ? something on the order of 5-10,000 lives wasted yearly because f! Vancouver refused to build roads.a  @ This was just the lives lost to wasted time.  We didn't have theD medical backgrounds to calculate how many people were dying sitting 9 in traffic inhaling the high concentrations of emissions.o  A When you point that out to a Vancouverite, they typically get alld? defensive and say something like "Well, if you like to drive so @ much, go back to the US, eh?"  I guess they just liked to sit in( the cars in traffic a lot and not drive.   -Jordan Hendersont jordan@greenapple.como   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jun 2001 21:04:09 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.eduh2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <9g8kg9$8t2$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>f  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: ) > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:T@ >|> On 11 Jun 2001 16:33:20 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill >|> Gunshannon) wrote: >|>  >|> G >|> >According to the experts on ABC last night the oceans have alreadytF >|> >risen 300-600 feet since the end of the last ice-age and that all@ >|> >happened before the first SUV rolled off the assembly line. >|> I >|> Eh? Since the *end* of the last ice age the rise in sea level is more F >|> like 30 feet than 300 feet.  Way, way back in time it is estimatedJ >|> that sea level may have been up to 300 feet higher but not in the lastH >|> 100,000 years let alone 15,000 years (approx end of last ice age) or >|> so.  >wA >Then, how do you explain all the submerged stone cities that aredA >constantly used to fuel the Atlantis/Mu/Lemuria legends like theo >Bimini Road??   Subsidance./   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Jun 2001 18:57 CDTi' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)l2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?- Message-ID: <13JUN200118570093@gerg.tamu.edu>   ! Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM writes...t }Peter Weaver wrote:@ }> "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message' }> news:3B1E4EC3.FF78E2C1@uk.sun.com...y }> > Carl Perkins wrote: }> > >8 }> > > "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes... }> >...a? }> > > }technological breakthrough. It offers an incredible 3.2s }> litres/100 kmG }> > > }on the highway, 3.9 litres/100 km in the city and an unheard ofs }> 1250e }> >...t@ }> > > The 3.2 liters per 100 km is about 73.5 miles per gallon,@ }> > > the 3.9 l/100 km is about 60.3 mpg, and the 1250 km range }> > > is nearly 777 miles.  }> > > }> >@ }> > The Volksvagen Lupo does 64.8 MPG on a combined urban/extra8 }> > urban mileage. Its a fairly standard diesel engine. }> >...  }> oC }> My Father-in-law was just complaining the other day that his old-I }> diesel VW was getting 4.? litres/100KM, but his Datsun is only gettingeG }> 7.? l/100KM. Nooooooooooooooo. Ignore that comment, this thread willnI }> start arguing about diesels vs. non-diesel engines. I'm not even goingFI }> to mention that in the early 90's I had a natural gas tank in my Chevyd@ }> Cavalier with a manual switch to go from natural to gasoline.B }> Noooooooooooooo. Now we're going to argue about natural gas vs. }> electric. }> tB }> Just curious Andrew, in England do you use Miles/U.S. Gallon orE }> Miles/Imperial Gallon? Nooooooooooooo. Scratch that question, thisv@ }> thread will start arguing about Metric measurements vs. other }> measurements. } 7 }Good point, I was using Miles per Imperial Gallon not e9 }Miles per US Gallon, not many car manufacturers selling e4 }into the UK market use US gallons as a measure :):) }Regards }Andrew Harrison  H My figures above were, of course, miles per US gallon. Using UK gallons, it works out to:  > The 3.2 liters per 100 km is about 88.2 miles per (UK) gallon,+ and the 3.9 l/100 km is about 72.4 mp(UK)g.o  B That's somewhat better than the Lupo - some 11% better in the city3 than the averaged highway/city figure for the Lupo.c   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:49:12 GMT24 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?; Message-ID: <YuWV6.2080$%f.1829942@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>s  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:5r$6IBlwkNKW@eisner.encompasserve.org... K > In article <9fqs30$hk2$7@husk.cso.niu.edu>, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edum writes:i > >fD > > I grew up 5 miles from Lake Michigan, anybody else here know the" > > meaning of "lake effect snow"? >sG > My mothers family survived for decades in the lake effect region whenr1 > there was no 4WD anything outside the military.l >l  D Very similar scenario in Syracuse "the mistake by the lake" New York   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.327 ************************