1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 14 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 328       Contents:A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com 	 - 7.3 Kit 
 Re: - 7.3 Kit % Re: Alpha network sessions disconnect  Alpha Station 200 problem  Re: Backups  Re: Backups 0 Re: DCPS: passing parameters to a postscript job( Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses - anyone? Disk Farm Problem  RE: Disk Farm Problem ! Re: DS10 homede boot disk problem ! FTP Server probelems with UCX 4.1 % Re: FTP Server probelems with UCX 4.1 % Re: FTP Server probelems with UCX 4.1 * Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?* Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?* Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?* Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?9 RE: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses 8 RE: I'm just a "pup"! Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses It's a VMS anniversary today" Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE" Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE" Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE" Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE3 openVMS concurrent user licences (v7.2 on MicroVAX) 7 Re: openVMS concurrent user licences (v7.2 on MicroVAX)  RE: OT: I'm just a "pup"! = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses 9 OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses < Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"! Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses< Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"! Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses Re: Problems with V7.3?  Re: set ho/mop vms maintenance utility  Re: vms maintenance utility  Re: vms maintenance utility  Re: vms maintenance utility - VMS->unix mail converter that works on 7.2-1?  re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 14 Jun 01 08:34:02 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com+ Message-ID: <9ga607$b44$5@bob.news.rcn.net>   : In article <OeMV6.3353$86.604620@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,8    "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: > K ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:9g7h0j$6na$6@bob.news.rcn.net... > >> In article <W0pV6.1265$%f.1393173@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,; >>    "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  >> >( >> ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message& >news:9g4rpl$btl$4@bob.news.rcn.net... >> >
 >> ><snip> >> >+ >> >> > I don't have a problem with forking J >> >> >over the personal data the site collects (to me it doesn't rise to  the  >> >> level = >> >> >of kitchen-sink detail), but apparently some folks do.  >> >>  >> >> A LOT of BUSINESSES mind.  >> >6 >> >I would assume that you have filled out a profile. >> >> Nope. > 9 >Then see? You have absolutely nothing to complain about.   1 Boy, am I deja vu'ing.  It's 1983 all over again.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:59:32 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com) Message-ID: <3B288B04.904CDB1F@bbc.co.uk>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  . > NSK is a operating system for servers only != > I dont see any advantage to have a web browser for Tandems.  > As for OpenVMS under Motif. M > OpenVMS is a server op system.  It needs a good web server, middleware, etc  > !  > It is not to play MP3 !   9 why not, it is a platform perfectly capable of that task?   -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:14:13 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com) Message-ID: <3B288E75.F1741460@bbc.co.uk>    Christopher Smith wrote:   > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] > < > > No, it was VMS without DECnet and other goodies (such as > > clustering) and it@ > > came with Micro-documentation that had errors in it. It also > > had simplified? > > directory structure without the sys$common and sys$specific  > > dual trees.  > K > Clustering is a "layered product" anyway, right?  I'm sure one could have C > re-arranged the directory structure (unsupportedly, of course! :)  >   I yeah, and ethernet clustering only came in in VMS 4.7A (or something like A that) and then V5 came along and there was no MicroVMS, just VMS.   . I had DECNet running under MicroVMS I am sure.  -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:09:06 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com) Message-ID: <3B288D42.36BD811A@bbc.co.uk>    Christopher Smith wrote:   > N > Well, you do realize that MicroVMS was more or less just VAX/VMS without theJ > dependence on the hardware PDP-11 emulation?  At least, this is what I'm	 > told...  > 
 > Regards, >  >   F It was also missing drivers for bigger VAXen I seem to recall, to keep the disk footprint down.   >    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:22:20 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com) Message-ID: <3B28905C.315D5E43@bbc.co.uk>    JF Mezei wrote:    > Larry Kilgallen wrote:. > > I had MicroVMS with DECnet and clustering. > < > Did you have to install Decnet and vaxcluster separately ?  ? thats what I remember, or maybe it was just installing VMS 4.7A  for the clustering.      --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2001 10:25:00 -07003 From: kenneth.h.fairfield@intel.com (Ken Fairfield) J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com= Message-ID: <3147e88a.0106140924.4397b57e@posting.google.com>   w "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<QqSV6.2021$%f.1749349@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>... > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B27B2D4.7E3B52C0@fsi.net...  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > > N > > > No complaints have been heard from the ITUG (Himalaya NSK) constituency. > > 2 > > Is there a Netscape for NSK? ...other browser? > M > Not that I know of... I think all the NSK types use Windoze peecees and the & > like for non mission-critical stuff. > N > Which is probably just as well: ya don't want a Netscape crash bringing down& > AOL or a 911 system or stock market.  H But Terry, other than BGware, what other operating systems can NetscrapeM bring down?!  Sure, even on VMS, Netscape can (and _does_) kill the X-server, I but I've never seen a process termination, let alone a system crash.  Are G you telling me that NSK _would_ be susceptible to Netscape?  What about  Solaris?  Or Linux?          -Ken --8 Kenneth H. Fairfield, F20 Automation VMS System Support C Intel Corp., 2501 NW 229th Street, MS: RA2-376, Hillsboro, OR 97124    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2001 08:33:53 -0500 # From: medleyb@ev1.net (Bert Medley)  Subject: - 7.3 Kit: Message-ID: <Xns90B956770D7DEmedleybev1net@207.218.245.68>  - Has anyone in Houston, TX received their yet?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:03:59 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: - 7.3 KitL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1406010904000001@user-2ivebk9.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <Xns90B956770D7DEmedleybev1net@207.218.245.68>, medleyb@ev1.net (Bert Medley) wrote:  / > Has anyone in Houston, TX received their yet?      Do they float?   :-)    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:01:51 +0200 2 From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcormail.de>. Subject: Re: Alpha network sessions disconnect+ Message-ID: <3B28B5BF.1000700@arcormail.de>    Dear Sharon,  < do you have encryption enabled on the ciscos? We experienced@ delays in terminal sessions when two ciscis exchanged encryptionB keys periodically. We were told that we have to buy bigger routers5 to avoid this behavior. We disabled the encryption...    Thomas   Sharon Pulsifer wrote:  K > Hello.  I am hoping that some of you can help me.  I have an Alpha Server K > DS20E running vms 7.2-1 and tcpip v5.0a. We connect to a Cisco 4006.  The M > port on the cisco is set for full duplex, 100bt speed and high level.  I am L > not getting any errors on the cisco port.  I am also not getting any errorK > in NCP in vms.  I am not at work right now, but I think the NIC card is a  > DE600. > J > All sessions that run in batch or at the console run fine.  However, anyG > telnet or lat sessions gets either disconnected for stalled for a few ( > seconds many times throughout the day. > M > I am out of  ideas.  So far we have changed the switch port, plugged into a A > different switch, changed network cables and changed NIC cards.  > 1 > Has anyone else experienced anything like this?      --  9 Thomas H. Pauli, Hammersteinstr.19, 14199 Berlin, Germany    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:35:32 -0400 ' From: "Ung Ho Yi" <yi-1@medctr.osu.edu> " Subject: Alpha Station 200 problem: Message-ID: <9gap51$kuc$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   Hello,  K I have an alpha station 200.  It used to run as Vms system and is currently  running as NT system.   J Now I would like to run it as Vms system.  However everytime I boot up the! system, it goes into arc console. ' How do I get it to go into SRM console?    Thanks in advance, yi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:32:55 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: BackupsH Message-ID: <OF51D46500.023DC35B-ON80256A6B.0033E880@qedi.quintiles.com>  J If the disk which you wish to make a copy of is DKA100: and the tape drive8 is, for example MKA600: then the following should work :  , $ mount/noassist/nounload/over=ident dka100: $ mount/foreign mka600: 6 $ backup/image/noalias  dka100:  mka600:sysdsk.bck/sav  J You may also add /verify after /noalias to ensure that what is on the tapeK is actually what is on the drive, but this will increase the time which the 
 backup takes.   J /noalias is critical for a system disk from v6.2.  Failure to include thisH would lead to a corrupt disk structure when the saveset is restored fromH tape to disk.  There are workarounds to fix the resulting structure, butJ using /noalias avoids the problem in the first place.  (This is documented  in the v6.2 release notes IIRC).   Steve.   Trevor Osatchuk wrote: >>> B Newbie question, again.  I have OpenVMS 6.2 on an alpha.  We had aC disk failure, got a new disk and restored form tape.  I have had to D make some changes to networking and update some proprietary softwareD to make the system the same as it was before the crash.  Now, I wantF to make a backup of it.  I have booted from the OS cd and want to makeF an image copy of the disk to tape.  I have tried a couple of commands,B to no avail.  I have mounted the disk dka100 but do I also have toA mount the tape drive?  I have tried that with the foreign flag as B specified in the backup /image help but I get promted for a label.  What is the label of a new tape?  ? As I have not performed a backup on VMS I am also unsure of the F commands I will need to execute the backup.  If someone could point me% to a howto URL I would appreciate it.  <<<    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:51:04 GMT 7 From: trevor.osatchuk@nospam.pscl.com (Trevor Osatchuk)  Subject: Re: Backups5 Message-ID: <3b28ce4e.552049264@news.telusplanet.net>     Thanks to everyone who posted!       Trevor Osatchuk    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:03:45 -0400 0 From: paul.r.anderson@compaq.com (Paul Anderson)9 Subject: Re: DCPS: passing parameters to a postscript job P Message-ID: <paul.r.anderson-1406011003450001@dhcp-16-21-34-107.eng.lkg.dec.com>  5 In article <3B27D3FF.C4BA9B88@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   I > Is it possible to pass parameters in the PRINT command  such that those N > parameters would be accessible by the postscript code that will execute ? OrK > is the only way to generate a temporary file that contains code to define @ > those paremeters and pass that file as part of the print job ?  H Parameters to the PRINT command are parsed and validated by DCPS.  ThereJ is no facility for passing anything directly to the PostScript interpreter through a parameter.  
 In articleA <rdeininger-1406010138400001@user-2ive61a.dialup.mindspring.com>, 3 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:   I > I'm not sure you can fit raw postscript into the PRINT command syntax.  H > But you can cause set-up modules to be inserted via the command line. J > These modules (from the queue's device control library file) can consistK > of postscript commands.  I guess this is a temporary file, in a way.  The K > system manager has to set the modules up in advance.  For a user to stick L > in arbitrary postscript on his own, I think he'll have to modify the print& > file before sending it to the queue.  C Yes, this is correct.  You could also have a user-modifiable device  control library.     Paul   --  
 Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering  Compaq Computer Corporation   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2001 09:03:21 -0500& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org>1 Subject: Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses - anyone? , Message-ID: <m3k82f9n12.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>  ' On 22 Sivan 5761, Michael Austin wrote:   ? >> >> Moses tripped, broke the tablets.  So we will never know.  >> >5 >> >The real Moses got a backup copy from his vendor.  > E > More acurately...  Actually Moses got angry at the incompentence of C > the user community and threw them against a rock smashing them to 	 > pieces.   F The first two times I read this, I thought "them" was referring to the: user community.  Which in turn reminded me of one rabbinicF interpretation of the Hebrew for Exodus 20ff, suggesting that G-d heldE the mountain over Israel and threatened to smash them with it if they H did not accept the Torah.  (Note for those who think that this is a goodE slam on religion - in the context of the commentaries it is explained ? and makes a lot more sense than my little one-liner here does.)   A Then I figured out that "them" was the tablets.  Still, one could D certainly see some software vendors as holding the mountain over the7 heads of their users and waving EULA's etc.... *smiles*T -- 4H Charles Sebold                                       23rd of Sivan, 5761>       Systems Specialist, LCMS - Office of Information Systems=         *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***"=         *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***  --C Always wear a helmet. If this makes you uncomfortable, think of thet- helmet as a crown and yourself as King Dorko.o  $  -- The Onion's Bicycle-Safety Tips,>     http://www.theonion.com/onion3711/bicycle_safety_tips.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:08:59 -0700 . From: Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> Subject: Disk Farm Problem( Message-ID: <3B28EFAB.F39D2F0B@vmmc.org>   OpenVMS V7.1-1H2 Alphaserver 8400G KZPBA-CB HBA connected to ESA1000 w/redundant HSZ70 controllers; latestT sw w/patches( HBVS & HB RAID sw creating 0+1 RAID sets No recent SW or HW changes  C In the past 20 days we have had three failures where VMS logs disksi going into MOUNT7 VERIFY status.  This has caused some programs to crash.C  E Compaq on site each time.  After replacing various parts, VMS "seems"e fine until nexta occrrance of problem.I  H First time, the KZPBA-CB was replaced, and problem did not reoccur for 1 week.E  E Second time, SCSI cable between HBA and ESA10000 replaced and problem  did noth reoccur for 3 days.R  F Last night, one of the HSZ70 cache-mem modules replaced.  (I had asked for both to be1 replaced but only one replacement was available.)   H Compaq is scratching there heads (along with me) as no specific HW error msgs appear.H Only "clue?" is that disks going into MOUNT VERIFY all are "Prefered" to
 one of the6 HSZ70 controllers.  That controller has been replaced.  B Parts removed during first occurance have been tested at the local Compaq site w/o failures.   G I have asked that the problem be escalated, since no one feels that its" actually been resolved.r  5 Would appreciate any ideas, similar experiences, etc.    Thanks all.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:35:36 +0100 5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: Disk Farm ProblemN Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D308018B151B@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>   Hi,aD 	are there any HW errors logged or just mount verify's.  Anything on the HSZ console output or FMU?   Regards, 	Olivera   -----Original Message-----5 From: Jack Trachtman [mailto:Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org]-% Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:09 PM- To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0 Subject: Disk Farm Problem     OpenVMS V7.1-1H2 Alphaserver 8400G KZPBA-CB HBA connected to ESA1000 w/redundant HSZ70 controllers; latest@ sw w/patches( HBVS & HB RAID sw creating 0+1 RAID sets No recent SW or HW changes  C In the past 20 days we have had three failures where VMS logs disks@ going into MOUNT7 VERIFY status.  This has caused some programs to crash.i  E Compaq on site each time.  After replacing various parts, VMS "seems"n fine until nextn occrrance of problem.   H First time, the KZPBA-CB was replaced, and problem did not reoccur for 1 week..  E Second time, SCSI cable between HBA and ESA10000 replaced and problem  did note reoccur for 3 days.h  F Last night, one of the HSZ70 cache-mem modules replaced.  (I had asked for both to be1 replaced but only one replacement was available.)   H Compaq is scratching there heads (along with me) as no specific HW error msgs appear.H Only "clue?" is that disks going into MOUNT VERIFY all are "Prefered" to
 one of the6 HSZ70 controllers.  That controller has been replaced.  B Parts removed during first occurance have been tested at the local Compaq site w/o failures.0  G I have asked that the problem be escalated, since no one feels that its: actually been resolved.   5 Would appreciate any ideas, similar experiences, etc.2   Thanks all.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:11:29 +0100a  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com* Subject: Re: DS10 homede boot disk problemH Message-ID: <OF36F14E4B.D31419E6-ON80256A6B.00325DB9@qedi.quintiles.com>  ) Good point.  I wasn't quite thinking.....a Steve.   George Cornelius wrote/quoted: >>>h
 > $ MC SYSGENp) > USE LDA100:[SYS0.SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR- > SET WLKSYSDSK 1O > WRITE CURRENTt  D Thanks for the info on the WLKSYSDSK parameter.  I suspect, however,A that you meant to write the updated parameters back to LDA100 and   not to your current system disk? <<<i   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2001 03:40:34 -0700 From: timrobo@hotmail.com (Tim) * Subject: FTP Server probelems with UCX 4.1= Message-ID: <f7aa7cb9.0106140240.1521a0c2@posting.google.com>u  F Has anyone come across any problems with with the FTP service on older MicroVax 3100 models.mD I'm using VMS 6.2, UCX 4.1 ECO 10 on a range of MicroVax 3100 modelsB (80,85,88,90 and 98). I have enabled the FTP Server in ucx$config.A Everything appears to work on these machines except if you try tot connect to 2 of them using FTP.r "$ ftp 100.2.5.2* %FTP-E-NETERR, I/O error on network device5 -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected"e  E The only common factor with these 2 machines that is different to theeF others is the ethernet device is ESA. On all the others, that work, it is EZA. D Does anyone know if this is something I can change, is there a patchF for this or is this nothing to do with it and I'm doing something else wrong.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:53:05 -0400e- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>t. Subject: Re: FTP Server probelems with UCX 4.1- Message-ID: <3B28B3B1.4A2D9B0E@bellsouth.net>i  D What do you get on the console ( REPLY/ENABLE=(NET,SEC) ) about this< connection.  You should get a security warning of some sort.* What does  UCX SHOW SERVICE FTP/FULL show?  SHOW INTERFACE?  SHOW CONFIG INTERFACE/FULL    Michael Austin DBA Consultant  
 Tim wrote:  H > Has anyone come across any problems with with the FTP service on older > MicroVax 3100 models. F > I'm using VMS 6.2, UCX 4.1 ECO 10 on a range of MicroVax 3100 modelsD > (80,85,88,90 and 98). I have enabled the FTP Server in ucx$config.C > Everything appears to work on these machines except if you try toi! > connect to 2 of them using FTP.e > "$ ftp 100.2.5.2, > %FTP-E-NETERR, I/O error on network device7 > -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected"t >eG > The only common factor with these 2 machines that is different to the H > others is the ethernet device is ESA. On all the others, that work, it	 > is EZA.eF > Does anyone know if this is something I can change, is there a patchH > for this or is this nothing to do with it and I'm doing something else > wrong.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:10:13 -0500c1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>F. Subject: Re: FTP Server probelems with UCX 4.1' Message-ID: <3B28B7B5.8BEBEB76@fsi.net>.  
 Tim wrote: > H > Has anyone come across any problems with with the FTP service on older > MicroVax 3100 models.tF > I'm using VMS 6.2, UCX 4.1 ECO 10 on a range of MicroVax 3100 modelsD > (80,85,88,90 and 98). I have enabled the FTP Server in ucx$config.C > Everything appears to work on these machines except if you try toe! > connect to 2 of them using FTP.  > "$ ftp 100.2.5.2, > %FTP-E-NETERR, I/O error on network device7 > -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected":  @ I'd take that last line seriously to heart. The receiving end isH rejecting the connection. The FTP service/daemon may not enabled/started on the remote end.   -- 9 David J. Dachtera. dba DJE SystemsT http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:18:18 +0200s0 From: "Jean-Luc RAYON" <jl.rayon@lacouronne.com>3 Subject: Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?l, Message-ID: <9g9pvi$klq$1@reader1.fr.uu.net>  ? Tom Hickerson <tom@automatedtech.com> a crit dans le message :G' +jQoO+0qTBqDuOk88cyr6DRET72H@4ax.com...t > BTW I've tried:! >u > TCPIP> SET NOINTERFACE WE0 >d) > That executes without error but doesn'tr% > seem to do what I'd hoped.  The WE0a, > interface still shows up and appears to be. > defined when I look at it with TCPIP$CONFIG.    You have to use  $TCPIP  >set nointerf wea0 >set conf nointerf wea0i $V*  For the volatile and the permanent config   JLR.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:55:24 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e3 Subject: Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?D0 Message-ID: <009FD81F.11769B32@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <+jQoO+0qTBqDuOk88cyr6DRET72H@4ax.com>, Tom Hickerson <tom@automatedtech.com> writes: >BTW I've tried: >i >TCPIP> SET NOINTERFACE WE0e >n( >That executes without error but doesn't% >seem to do what I'd hoped.  The WE0 k, >interface still shows up and appears to be - >defined when I look at it with TCPIP$CONFIG.b >1  5 Close.  You need to remove it from the configuration.   ( TCPIP> SET CONFIGURATION NOINTERFACE WE0   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:47:31 GMT.+ From: tom@automatedtech.com (Tom Hickerson)y3 Subject: Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ?c3 Message-ID: <3b28b1ef.34775915@news.mindspring.com>n  @ On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:55:24 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:a   >>TCPIP> SET NOINTERFACE WE0 > 6 >Close.  You need to remove it from the configuration. >n) >TCPIP> SET CONFIGURATION NOINTERFACE WE0A  ' Brian, as usual, was exactly right !!!! % Thanks to everyone for the responses..   Tom       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:52:40 GMT + From: tom@automatedtech.com (Tom Hickerson) 3 Subject: Re: How do you undefine TCP for a device ? 3 Message-ID: <3b2cb33f.35111657@news.mindspring.com>   4 On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:18:18 +0200, "Jean-Luc RAYON"  <jl.rayon@lacouronne.com> wrote:   > You have to usee > $TCPIP >>set nointerf wea0  >>set conf nointerf wea0 >$+ > For the volatile and the permanent configm >t >JLR.e >    Thanks  Jean-Luc. % That solved my problem completely !!!i Tomn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:59:17 -0500e+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> B Subject: RE: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of MosesL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F5F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Scott Vieth [mailto:svieth@wi.rr.com]D  ? > Twenty years ago, I was still a few years away from learning e > how to drive!   > > I've had a feeling for a long time that I was/am one of the  > youngest people whol< > reads comp.os.vms regularly.  At most storage events, I'm  > always the youngesto? > person there by about ten years.  I checked out the web page s > with photos of the > recent> > gathering at the DFW users group and, man, there were a lot  > of "old timers"i
 > there.  ;^)j  K Well, you won't find me at any of the events, because I can't yet afford tonJ go, nor do I have a job that's closely related enough that they'll pay for it. :)   > Am I the only VMS pup? :^)  = No, I was born only 3 years before 7BC, which makes me 17. :)i  ? > VMS in college ("Duhhh, I remember programming in FORTRAN on 1 > a VAX when< > I was college." is a typical remark) and then moved on to  > specialize in some > other platform.   J Actually, I did ADA on an AXP.  I remember not liking it much at the time.H I think they most likely should have had an introductory VMS course thatC explained some of the fundamentals, and I would have been much mores comfortable.  > > I have a lot of techie friends my age who are Novell gurus,  > Cisco gurus, NT gurusd
 > and even> > some Solaris gurus.  But I can't think of anyone my age who  > knows a great deal > about VMSa > and the hardware it runs on.   > Comments anyone?  ; > -Scott, VMS guru, storage guru, young whippersnapper  :^)a    , Well, we can't all be like "Hoff" Hoffman ;)  J Seriously, though, there are a few of us around.  I know one guy who readsI (at least used to read) this group, who is also about my age.  He doesn't F say much recently, though.  Last I saw, he was arguing with Andrew. :)   Regards,   Chrisi  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer. Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");g 'l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:29:50 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.comA Subject: RE: I'm just a "pup"! Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses H Message-ID: <OFA796639F.B451DBAE-ON80256A6B.004F6197@qedi.quintiles.com>   Christopher Smith wrote:- >Well, we can't all be like "Hoff" Hoffman ;)-  , But we can aspire to it.  It's a dream.  :-)  = >Seriously, though, there are a few of us around.  I know oneB> >guy who reads (at least used to read) this group, who is also= >about my age.  He doesn't say much recently, though.  Last I-$ >saw, he was arguing with Andrew. :)  " That gives us lots to go on.  NOT!@ Doesn't everyone here argue with Andrew.  Including Andrew.  :-)H Bit like the French.  Everyone's had wars with the French, including the French.@ Steve.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:55:00 -0400J2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>% Subject: It's a VMS anniversary todayt3 Message-ID: <y%5W6.1468$fi2.42665@news.cpqcorp.net>d   Check out line 23 - Suec       Folks,  B The following is the header page of SYSQIOREQ.MAR off the VMS V1.0  F resd. If Dave's creation date is to be believed (and it's historically  D plausible), then today marks the 25th anniversary of the creation of   the first source module of VMS.i   It's been one hell of a trip...    - Andy      , SYSQIOREQ - SYSTEM SERVICE QUEUE I/O REQUEST  0 21-AUG-1978 20:40:14 VAX-11 MACRO X0.3-11 Page 1      5 1 .TITLE SYSQIOREQ - SYSTEM SERVICE QUEUE I/O REQUEST)  
 2 .IDENT /02/    3u   4 ;c   5 ; COPYRIGHT (C) 1977  1 6 ; DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION, MAYNARD, MASS.-   7 ;l  @ 8 ; THIS SOFTWARE IS FURNISHED UNDER A LICENSE FOR USE ONLY ON A  A 9 ; SINGLE COMPUTER SYSTEM AND MAY BE COPIED ONLY WITH THE INCLU-m  > 10 ; SION OF THE ABOVE COPYRIGHT NOTICE. THIS SOFTWARE, OR ANY  @ 11 ; OTHER COPIES THEREOF, MAY NOT BE PROVIDED OR OTHERWISE MADE  @ 12 ; AVAILABLE TO ANY OTHER PERSON EXCEPT FOR USE ON SUCH SYSTEM  ? 13 ; AND TO ONE WHO AGREES TO THESE LICENSE TERMS. TITLE TO ANDc  @ 14 ; OWNERSHIP OF THE SOFTWARE SHALL AT ALL TIMES REMAIN IN DEC.   15 ;  B 16 ; THE INFORMATION IN THIS SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT  B 17 ; NOTICE AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS A COMMITMENT BY DIGITAL   18 ; EQUIPMENT CORPORATION.o   19 ;  D 20 ; DEC ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE USE OR RELIABILITY OF ITS  8 21 ; SOFTWARE ON EQUIPMENT WHICH IS NOT SUPPLIED BY DEC.   22 ;   23 ; D. N. CUTLER 14-JUN-76r   24 ;  ' 25 ; MODIFIED BY: P. H. LIPMAN 1-MAY-78    26 ;  4 27 ; 02 - REWROTE BUILDPKT FOR SEGMENTED VIRTUAL I/O   28 ;  % 29 ; SYSTEM SERVICE QUEUE I/O REQUESTt   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:46:19 GMTk= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i+ Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSEr0 Message-ID: <009FD81D.CCC2A9F8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <OFB96D052A.21A4B52D-ON88256A6A.007D251B@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: >aI >Down, Brian, or we'll come over there and poke you with cushions.... :-)t  @ I'm made of harder stuff.  You'll need to fetch the comfy chair.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi            .O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:44:42 +0100r  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com+ Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE H Message-ID: <OFD0FFBAF4.A800710E-ON80256A6B.00357286@qedi.quintiles.com>   I didn't expect that......  # Brian Schenkenberger wrote/quoted :i >>> D In article <OFB96D052A.21A4B52D-ON88256A6A.007D251B@foundation.com>,# Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:m > I >Down, Brian, or we'll come over there and poke you with cushions.... :-)e  @ I'm made of harder stuff.  You'll need to fetch the comfy chair. <<<w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:28:03 +0400-D From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <junk-     laishev@mail.dls.net     -junk>+ Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSEm> Message-ID: <C91W6.2012$yE5.60959@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>   Hello Hoff,r  G >   An inquiry: How can I differentiate the the tokens from the text inlK >   the string?  Is the way to identify the next hunk effectively comprisedoB >   of any of a specified set of tokens, each ending with a colon?(  Yes. An each token ending with a colon. >aC >   If so, you're going to get to learn about subexpression parsing D >   within tparse, since that's how you'll have to differentiate the >   following two strings: > F >      One: surprise Two surprise and fear Three: fear and surprise...G >      One: surprise Two: surprise and fear Three: fear and surprise...e  8  Token = "One" Value = "surprise Two surprise and fear",/  Token = "Three" Value = "fear and surprise..."   "  Token = "One" Value = "surprise",+  Token = "Two" Value = "surprise and fear ,a/  Token = "Three" Value = "fear and surprise..."  -- Cheers,sF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker........................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222pE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222lF +http://www.levitte.org/~rlaishev/ .......... SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:17:28 -0500r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n+ Subject: Re: Need help with LIB$TABLE_PARSE ' Message-ID: <3B28B968.7B75C984@fsi.net>r   "Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote: > [snip]: >  Token = "One" Value = "surprise Two surprise and fear",1 >  Token = "Three" Value = "fear and surprise...". > $ >  Token = "One" Value = "surprise",- >  Token = "Two" Value = "surprise and fear ,n1 >  Token = "Three" Value = "fear and surprise..."e  H From the little I know of such things, would the following not be easier to process:   9   Token = "One", Value = "surprise Two surprise and fear".1   Token = "Three", Value = "fear and surprise..."1   #   Token = "One", Value = "surprise"t,   Token = "Two", Value = "surprise and fear"1   Token = "Three", Value = "fear and surprise..."1  E The "hard" part, I suppose, would be differentiating between commas[, = etc.] inside of quoted strings vs. outside of quoted strings.s  ? The above could even be parsed using F$ELEMENT() in DCL. Hardlye. efficient or "elegant", but at least possible.  + FWIW... (probably very little, I grant you)    -- s David J. DachteraB dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:10:52 +0100 % From: "Jon Pickup" <jpickup@bocs.com>l< Subject: openVMS concurrent user licences (v7.2 on MicroVAX)? Message-ID: <EQ1W6.20568$jd1.1064127@monolith.news.easynet.net>a  E Can anyone help me out with how to establish how many concurrent useru licences I have on my system?p   SHOW LIC /CHARGE shows...x  ) VMS/LMF Charge Information for node BELF1-3 This is a MicroVAX 3100-85, hardware model type 4902K Type: A, Units Required: 60 (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited or Base)k/ Type: B, * Not Permitted * (VAX/VMS F&A Server)6  A    ---->   Type: C, Units Required: 100 (VAX/VMS Concurrent User)i  0 Type: D, * Not Permitted * (VAX/VMS Workstation)A Type: E, Units Required: 230 (VAX/VMS System Integrated Products) 2 Type: F, Units Required: 20 (VAX Layered Products)% Type: G, * Not Permitted * (Reserved)s3 Type: H, * Not Permitted * (Alpha Layered Products)a. Type: I, Units Required: 20 (Layered Products)   ...and SHOW LIC shows....-   Active licenses on node BELF1:; ------- Product ID -------- ---- Rating ----- -- Version -- > Product Producer Units Avail Activ Version Release Termination, BASE-VMS-250136 DEC 60 0 A 0.0 (none) (none)- NET-APP-SUP-200 DEC 200 F 0 0.0 (none) (none)h. PWLMDOSCC05.01 DEC 100 0 100 0.0 (none) (none). PWNWXXXFP05.00 DEC 100 0 100 0.0 (none) (none)  2   ---->  VMS-USER DEC 1200 0 100 0.0 (none) (none)  I Compaq reckoned that I divide the 1200 by the 100 to get 12, then add onenF for the base user, to get 13 as an upper limit. But then they couldn'tH explain how come we seemed to be routinely exceeding 13. Which leaves me nowhere again...  1 OpenVMS User Processes at 12-JUN-2001 12:25:25.79a4 Total number of users = 16, number of processes = 17% Username Interactive Subprocess Batcha AINE 1
 BOCSMANAGER 1o	 CAROLYN 1n	 GOFIONA 2i GOJOE 1n
 GOJOSEPH 1 IAN 1t JACKIE 1 JANINE 1	 LYCAROL 1i PIPPA 1  ROBIN 1h
 ROSALEEN 1 SPACETIME 1n SUSAN 1r	 VALERIE 1-   Many thanks in advance,    Jon.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:54:22 -0400n- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>X@ Subject: Re: openVMS concurrent user licences (v7.2 on MicroVAX)4 Message-ID: <5f4W6.249111$Z2.2885170@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  0 "Jon Pickup" <jpickup@bocs.com> wrote in message9 news:EQ1W6.20568$jd1.1064127@monolith.news.easynet.net... B > Can anyone help me out with how to establish how many concurrent user > licences I have on my system?o >...C > Compaq reckoned that I divide the 1200 by the 100 to get 12, then3 add ones? > for the base user, to get 13 as an upper limit. But then they0 couldn't@ > explain how come we seemed to be routinely exceeding 13. Which	 leaves met > nowhere again... >...  F Try the command SHOW LIC/USAGE/FULL *VMS* and see if that makes it any clearer.  A My first guess is that some of the processes in your display wereEE batch jobs and not interactive users. But the columns did not displayw! correctly so it was hard to tell.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:37:30 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>" Subject: RE: OT: I'm just a "pup"!- Message-ID: <0033000026512901000002L012*@MHS>d  ? =0AAt least you're not being force-fed the vile purple reptile.-  + Thank God my kids are too old for that now.17 But wait! The oldest, he's almost thirteen!  AAAARGH!!!t  * As Emily Litella used to say: 'Nevermind'.   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETy( > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 11:54 AMF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETF > Subject: RE: OT: I'm just a "pup"! Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Mose >P >r7 > In article <sb289497.071@aaas.org>, John Eisenschmidt  > <jeisensc@aaas.org>t= > writes: >Twenty Years Ago I still was still watching Sesame  > Street all morning =3D? > >because I was too young to be in school. Ask Bill Gunshannon  > about my blue =3De > >hair. <g> >e? > I'm still watching Sesame Street all morning but only because  > I've a 19c > month old toddling about.t >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > ? > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are/ > named after them.o >=   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jun 2001 06:45:51 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)eF Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses' Message-ID: <9g9miv$cc1$1@joe.rice.edu>o  % Scott Vieth (svieth@wi.rr.com) wrote:-
 : [ snip ] :-I : It seems like everyone in my age group touched VMS in college ("Duhhh, "E : I remember programming in FORTRAN on a VAX when I was college." is dK : a typical remark) and then moved on to specialize in some other platform.a  ; I feel very old, admitting my first programming was in MAD:c  &   http://www.wwa.com/~rweiland/mad.htm   Michigan Algorithm Decoder  )   http://www.wwa.com/~rweiland/madctf.htmo   MAD's Claims to Fame  > on an IBM 7094, running an OS from the University of Michigan.  / MAD would be a good teaching language even now.   K : I have a lot of techie friends my age who are Novell gurus, Cisco gurus,  H : NT gurus and even some Solaris gurus.  But I can't think of anyone my C : age who knows a great deal about VMS and the hardware it runs on.S :H : Comments anyone? :bD Take a look at the job ads  - sadly, the demand for VMS gurus is notA what it once was. I'm currently contemplating the Cisco route, toj remain employable.  A Combine that with 'stealth marketing' that probably couldn't giveI? away Dutton amphibians in Houston's 500-year flood last Friday:w      http://www.timdutton.com/    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  > Microsoft's Outlook (Express): The program that spreads virus' so you don't have to!e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:24:25 +0010R% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.autF Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses5 Message-ID: <01K4RO0RM0RM001I88@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>t  	 >Zowie!!!f > K >Twenty years ago, I was still a few years away from learning how to drive!M > I Snipped other things about youth and vitality (perhaps even virility) :-)i   Scott,  " Firstly keep up the good VMS work.  O There was a thread a few months ago about age.  Several of us responded, often r4 quoting decimal/hex ages which makes us look better.  < I noticed that you are not the youngest pup in one response.  D Whatever, from an almost retiring guy, again, keep up the good work.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,r
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australia    Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,n; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.J   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:39:46 -0400T+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>rB Subject: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses# Message-ID: <sb289497.071@aaas.org>e  G Twenty Years Ago I still was still watching Sesame Street all morning =eL because I was too young to be in school. Ask Bill Gunshannon about my blue =	 hair. <g>:  E Though I've only been a VMS person for a couple of years, I've been =3I reading pretty consistantly for a year or so...but if it makes you feel =i better you can exempt me.   < >>> Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> 06/13/2001 9:59:27 PM >>> Zowie!!!  J Twenty years ago, I was still a few years away from learning how to drive!  G [Note for our overseas friends: In the States, we usually take driver'sp education courses at age 16.]r  F I've had a feeling for a long time that I was/am one of the youngest =
 people whoF reads comp.os.vms regularly.  At most storage events, I'm always the = youngestJ person there by about ten years.  I checked out the web page with photos = of theL recent gathering at the DFW users group and, man, there were a lot of "old = timers"  there.  ;^)o   Am I the only VMS pup? :^)  L I realize that not very many folks in my generation have decided to have a = largee partG of their career revolve around VMS.  It seems like everyone in my age =g groupT touched G VMS in college ("Duhhh, I remember programming in FORTRAN on a VAX when I I was college." is a typical remark) and then moved on to specialize in =. some other platform. J I have a lot of techie friends my age who are Novell gurus, Cisco gurus, = NT gurus and evenK some Solaris gurus.  But I can't think of anyone my age who knows a great =a deal	 about VMSa and the hardware it runs on.   Comments anyone?  9 -Scott, VMS guru, storage guru, young whippersnapper  :^)s   Dan O'Reilly wrote:   H > Actually, I have this someplace, back from Way Back When in my days atK > Digital many moons ago (gad, nearly 20 years!).  Lemme see if I can dig =h it > up.r >^   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2001 09:16:08 -0500& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org>F Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses, Message-ID: <m3g0d39mfr.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>  $ On 23 Sivan 5761, Scott Vieth wrote:  F > I've had a feeling for a long time that I was/am one of the youngestF > people who reads comp.os.vms regularly.  At most storage events, I'mE > always the youngest person there by about ten years.  I checked out-C > the web page with photos of the recent gathering at the DFW userst> > group and, man, there were a lot of "old timers" there.  ;^) >  > Am I the only VMS pup? :^)  D I'm 29; I was hired here a few years back for Microcomputer support,@ then bucked for the opening in Unix sysadmin work based on priorB experiences implementing BSD's of various sorts at a previous job.  E Last year my bosses (one of whom reads this) decided to let me chooseaC what area I wanted to move into (networking, NT, or VMS), since thetE Tru64 box was quite stable, and for some reason I chose VMS.  LookingsD back I am quite happy with that decision and I think I did the rightA thing.  It has been tough to make the transition sometimes, but IhD continue to be impressed with this OS, and I can't believe the short= shrift given it in ignorance by so many people (including theSF corporation that owns it now).  I hope to get one of my Multias (whichC used to run RedHat 6) to become a Hobbyist box one of these days...  -- iH Charles Sebold                                       23rd of Sivan, 5761>       Systems Specialist, LCMS - Office of Information Systems=         *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***s=         *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***d -- Hit any user to continue.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:40:05 GMTQ= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) F Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses0 Message-ID: <009FD84F.388C870C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Q In article <sb289497.071@aaas.org>, John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org> writes:DH >Twenty Years Ago I still was still watching Sesame Street all morning =M >because I was too young to be in school. Ask Bill Gunshannon about my blue = 
 >hair. <g>  G I'm still watching Sesame Street all morning but only because I've a 19  month old toddling about.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMM            NO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:27:36 -0400N# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>AF Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses+ Message-ID: <3B28E5F8.7213EEEC@hsc.vcu.edu>E  4 suuuuuny day, sweeping the clouuuuds awaaayyy.......  = that is rom-burned into my brane.... (mispelling intentional)4   jim5  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  S > In article <sb289497.071@aaas.org>, John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org> writes:VJ > >Twenty Years Ago I still was still watching Sesame Street all morning =O > >because I was too young to be in school. Ask Bill Gunshannon about my blue =- > >hair. <g> >NI > I'm still watching Sesame Street all morning but only because I've a 19. > month old toddling about.A >A > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM, >iQ > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:43:37 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.comE Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"! Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of MoseseH Message-ID: <OF4B084B31.B5A41A6F-ON80256A6B.0034F296@qedi.quintiles.com>  I As someone who is only %X20, I was still about 5 years away from learningt> to drive (I think we start one year later than Scott at %X11).  @ So far, my career (having gone into Mechanical and ManufacturingE Engineering and then turning to the dark^H^H Computing side) has been J mainly VMS with a smattering of Novell for PC and Mac and about 30 seconds0 Irix (which I don't really understand even now).  I So no Scott, you're not the only young whippersnapper around these parts.  We're just in a minority! :-))  A And yes, I started with Fortran on VAX at what was then Liverpool ! Polytechnic back in January 1988.r Steve.   Scott Vieth wrote: >>>lJ Twenty years ago, I was still a few years away from learning how to drive!  G [Note for our overseas friends: In the States, we usually take driver'so education courses at age 16.]   K I've had a feeling for a long time that I was/am one of the youngest peopleo whotD reads comp.os.vms regularly.  At most storage events, I'm always the youngestK person there by about ten years.  I checked out the web page with photos of  thes recentK gathering at the DFW users group and, man, there were a lot of "old timers"e there.  ;^)o   Am I the only VMS pup? :^)  J I realize that not very many folks in my generation have decided to have a largee partK of their career revolve around VMS.  It seems like everyone in my age groupp touched G VMS in college ("Duhhh, I remember programming in FORTRAN on a VAX wheneG I was college." is a typical remark) and then moved on to specialize in  some other platform."K I have a lot of techie friends my age who are Novell gurus, Cisco gurus, NTh gurus  and evenI some Solaris gurus.  But I can't think of anyone my age who knows a great  deal	 about VMS  and the hardware it runs on.   Comments anyone? <<<r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:20:42 +0100.% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>HE Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"! Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses08 Message-ID: <9c5hitghg6h0ie8oach2g1bmohp4o5l2ms@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:43:37 +0100, steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:B   >BJ >As someone who is only %X20, I was still about 5 years away from learning? >to drive (I think we start one year later than Scott at %X11).e  F Well I'm %o45. None of this hex nonsense on the good old DEC-20. First> introduced to Algol programming via punched cards in a serviceF provided to local schools back around 1977. By 1980 I had a summer jobB with Dundee College of Technology working on TOPS-20 systems stuffC (WHEEL capability at 16!). First used VMS that summer as well (user=A level access to St. Andrews University SAVA:: VAX 11/780) and had < SETPRV since about 1984,  Had responsibility for specifying,D installing and managing my first small VAXcluster for an engineering@ company in 1987 and worked almost entirely with VMS since then -D especially after the death of my beloved DCT DEC-20 around 1990 - 13E years after I first stroked its card reader. Have also had to providetE occasional support for Ultrix/D-Unix/T64, HP-UX, BSD and far too manyi- versions of MS-DOS/Windows from time to time.e  D Malcolm, my main VMS support guy here, is %x1C and did a lot of workE with VMS as a student at Abertay Dundee where I used to be the senioroF systems admin. He posts here occasionally (Hi Malcolm!) when not beingB moaned at by me for making a stupid mistake I probably made in the 80s! n  A >So far, my career (having gone into Mechanical and ManufacturingdF >Engineering and then turning to the dark^H^H Computing side) has beenK >mainly VMS with a smattering of Novell for PC and Mac and about 30 secondss1 >Irix (which I don't really understand even now).2 >8J >So no Scott, you're not the only young whippersnapper around these parts. >We're just in a minority! :-))u >uB >And yes, I started with Fortran on VAX at what was then Liverpool" >Polytechnic back in January 1988. >Steve.s   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:37:50 -0400C. From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>  Subject: Re: Problems with V7.3?4 Message-ID: <Ke2W6.249071$Z2.2884161@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  ( what is the min version of SRM for 7.2-1  D Does the the product library kit always with SRM console version for& different hardware based on OS version  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009FD7A2.C08ED418@SendSpamHere.ORG...I > In article <lFNV6.248796$Z2.2877393@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Jerry Alan Braga"I <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes: L > >Is this causing a non-running system, a crashing system or just bugchecks > >being loggedU > >AI > >What version of the SRM console are you running, I was told you had toe have > >V6.0P >U$ > V5.9 is what was shipped with V7.3 >M2 > The system is crashing with INVEXCEPTN bugcheck. >. > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > K > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after  them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:27:09 +0200 2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> Subject: Re: set ho/mop.+ Message-ID: <3B28BBAD.5B4092AB@digital.com>2   Chris Poppins wrote: >  > Hi there,bL >         I think that there is a set ho/mop command, but I can't figure out
 > the syntax.  >  > any ideas?    On Alpha VMS V7.1: >     1. @SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]NET$STARTUP.COM   NETWORK  MOP
     2. MC NCLn$        NCL>SHOW NODE 0 MOP CIRCUIT *        .....3        Name                              = CSMACD-0,        .....?     3. Use the HW Ethernet address of e.g. the terminal server:u=        $SET HOST/MOP /ADDR=08-00-2B-0F-07-0B/CIRCUIT=CSMACD-0 ,                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*                             change to suit      MikeE ---------------------------------------------------------------------nE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.e? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------i   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2001 05:22:38 -0700( From: tstclaire@hotmail.com (St. Claire)  Subject: vms maintenance utility= Message-ID: <8581fcb0.0106140422.291dcb72@posting.google.com>R  E Does anyone know what the maintenance utility for vms is and what the F command is to launch it; like smit is the maintenance utility for aix?   TIA    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:19:48 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>N$ Subject: Re: vms maintenance utility& Message-ID: <3B28B9F4.6D8624C@fsi.net>   "St. Claire" wrote:E > G > Does anyone know what the maintenance utility for vms is and what the,H > command is to launch it; like smit is the maintenance utility for aix?  < Perhaps if you explain what you're trying to do; there is noE "maintenance utility for vms", though I suppose SYSMAN may qualify ins
 some regards.    -- t David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:41:16 -0400-- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>e$ Subject: Re: vms maintenance utility, Message-ID: <3B28BEFB.6C73804@bellsouth.net>   "St. Claire" wrote:s  G > Does anyone know what the maintenance utility for vms is and what theeH > command is to launch it; like smit is the maintenance utility for aix? >o > TIA"  F There is no "maintenance utility" in OpenVMS.  what is it that you areG trying to achieve?  What function(s) are you trying to perform?  A good I place to start on your OpenVMS system is HELP.  The commands are all very 
 intuitive.   Regards,   Michael Austin DBA Consultant   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jun 2001 14:53:40 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)n$ Subject: Re: vms maintenance utility' Message-ID: <9gaj5k$70m$1@joe.rice.edu>v  ) St. Claire (tstclaire@hotmail.com) wrote:mG : Does anyone know what the maintenance utility for vms is and what therH : command is to launch it; like smit is the maintenance utility for aix? :t : TIAd  3 VMS has no equivalent of AIX's SMIT or HP-UX's SAM.   D Tell us what it is you wish to do, using a SMIT example if you must,D and we'll try to help. Please include the version of VMS, and TCP/IP stack.     --Jerry Leslie     t   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jun 2001 17:03:21 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)6 Subject: VMS->unix mail converter that works on 7.2-1?, Message-ID: <9gaqop$jmb@gap.cco.caltech.edu>   Hi,   I The v2u_mail.for_v3 program I picked up from Arne's site doesn't work on -* OpenVMS 7.2-1.  This is the one that says:    A c       V2U_MAIL, a hack by Rob Riepel (rob@ssvax1.ssd.loral.com)R    ! It fails at this read (line 254):s  6 c       attempt to read the body as a mail file record1 c       and write out the records to the new file   A         read(11,'(Q,A2048)',keyid=0,key=ibuf(15),err=80)rlen,cbufn  H where it returns an error for every (or at least most) entries that haveG the data stored inside the mail.mai file, so it then goes to look for amG mail$xxxxxxxxx.mai file, can't find that either (of course) and ends upe writing out just the headers.  .  L I've also been looking at the output from MAIL's EXTRACT command, and think L that that's going to be really messy because files forwarded within the VMS H mail system end up with multiple sets of headers for each message.  MostL are now in the body, but that's going to be painful to figure out after the  fact with a script.    So...t  I Does anybody have a VMS->unix converter that will run on 7.2-1?  One thatf: uses the MAIL$ library routines will probably still work.    Thanks,    David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:27:50 +0100I/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>s  Subject: re: [OT] Climate change7 Message-ID: <009FD84D.82232565.16@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>    > 6 > > And I suspect that the next big change will be theK > > "energy age" where the world will convert to sustainable lifestyles ands > > industries.e > 
 > Such as? > F > I can see that question on Jeopardy: the answer is, "Industries thatE > neither consume nor require more fuel or energy than they produce".> > E > Who was it again that was working on that perpetual motion machine?h   This is just plain silly.   C A sustainable lifestyle is one that relies only on renewable energyoK sources: solar, wind, wave, hydro*, tidal. I'd also allow nuclear fusion if G we can get it working: the supply of deuterium in the Earth's oceans is N inexhaustible for all conceivable human timescales, and the waste radioactivesL problem for a fusion plant will be far smaller and shorter-lived than for a  fission one.  G If we can't solve fusion, this will require a considerable reduction in:H energy consumption, but to an extent that is known to be possible using D technologies that exist today. Persuading people of the need to makeF fairly major lifestyle changes is clearly "impossible" to you, but notJ to me. And unlike some, I don't expect such a major change to happen fast.K I simply want to see people starting to move away fron lifestyles that willeI wreck the planet for out descendants, and towards ones that will leave itr- to them in a state no worse than we find it. t  K Personally, I think that if only governments would treat fusion research asiG a number-one priority and fund it with (say) 10% of what they currentlyhJ spend on defense (if that's what it takes), we'd have unlimited tolerably ' clean electricity within a few decades.t   > F > > One needs vision to see this and if you see it and start to act onV > > it as soon as possible, your nation will be the first to benefit from that change. > J > ...and if you can help the world achieve that goal, you will be the next
 > Bill Gates.  > F Hardly. You're after hearts and minds, not money. though of course, a K sudden breakthrough in solar or fusion power would be massively profitable,mH but more probably one will see incremental development over decades that6 require government of big-company development funding.  I But if there's a Ghandi or a Kennedy who can win hearts and minds over togI accept the need for change, then he will at least be remembered as a goodr+ and great man by generations not yet born. :   	Yours,9
 		Nigel Arnote- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      D * and yes, I know that big-dam hydro power is often not sustainable.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jun 2001 11:00:31 GMT# From: rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espami  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change' Message-ID: <9ga5gf$uja$1@tejo.csic.es>N  [ In article <3B27B9F6.C3839CD0@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: D >If you can make all this happen, then you should seriously considerG >emigrating and running for public office or whatever position would ben% >empowered to make this all happen...c  L Hey, I didn't say it was easy, or politically advantageous, only that can be&  done and not necesary  lossing money.  K Out of that, I don't think EEUU give green cards to run in public office!! i  N What I am saying is that could be done, so is possible, the real trick is thatM most of the expenses for running a car are fixed ones, so if you own the car.iN You have already (have to) make that expendidure. The only way is to make easyN to don't need the car in the first place. So you could live longer without theN  expense of the car so if in the end you need to buy a car, you would probably"  look for a more cheap to run too.  . The easiest way is improving public transport.  M So all is reduced that you need the political will, and some people in publicCJ office that wish to do something , instead to sit over their hand and keep  everything like it is now.s  N Because that is true, even if the american wish to change at this moment, the K transport system don't allow it, but that would be a good use for the kyotohM protocol, a good political excuse so more money could go to public transport.a  K And that would produce more problably economic growth , and not an economicr crash.     >V% >rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote:  >>  ^ >> In article <3B27682B.2EC9541D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:( >> >rifepe@langran.iem.csic.espam wrote: >> >>0a >> >> In article <3B26778D.BD00DE39@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >> >> >JF Mezei wrote: >> >> >> [snip]3R >> >> >> Just because you don't have a car anymore and rely on good public transitT >> >> >> doesn't mean that your standard of living has gone down. In fact, you couldT >> >> >> consider it has gone up because you no longer have to worry about accidents >> >> >> while driving,  >> >> >eF >> >> >There have been some pretty spectacular mass-transit accidents, >> >> >remember! >> >> [snip] >> >> >iV >> >> >> And do you consider it higher standard of living when people have become suchU >> >> >> that they resent being in public places with other humans and feel much more T >> >> >> confortable being alone in their car, isolated from the rest of the world ? >> >> >pO >> >> >It's still better than only getting three or four hours a sleep each day-J >> >> >because you're spending 6 or more hours a day walking / pedalling /I >> >> >riding mass transit. Whaddaya gonna do - work, eat, sleep, repeat?o >> >> >eK >> >> >JF, mass transit - even foot power - is fine for those who can avail L >> >> >themselves of its benefits. You *MUST* understand, however, that suchB >> >> >folks are the vast minority of urban and suburban dwellers. >> >> >cM >> >> >These days, working-where-you-live and living-where-you-work is by fari >> >> >the greater luxury. >> >> >sE >> >> >People live where the affordable housing is and work where the F >> >> >best-paying jobs are. Rarely are these two found within walkingI >> >> >distance, nor are they frequently connected by mass transit withinu+ >> >> >walking distance of either location.w >> >> >aN >> >> >There are, according to the last stat.'s I saw in the The Daily Herald,N >> >> >some 4.5 million commuters in Metro Chicago. Less than 30% of them haveN >> >> >the option to use mass transit, based on ridership numbers from the CTAH >> >> >(Chicago Transit Authority), Pace (suburban bus system) and MetraH >> >> >(Metropolitan Commuter Rail Co. of Northeast Illinois), combined. >> >> >  >> >> >Home-based biz, anyone? >> >> N >> >>  So the public-transport in Chicago is really bad, and should be heavilyG >> >>  improved to allow a reduction in the use of the car, in Chicago.a >> >1 >> >Let's just say, it's not what it needs to be.I >> >K >> >>  Some years ago, Ciudad Real a city at about 60 miles became a suburbdP >> >>  of Madrid due to the AVE (high velocity train), it only take half an hourP >> >>  for it to go from the center of one to the center of the other, about theK >> >>  same time that take from a more near suburb in car at peak time, andoH >> >>  at 250$/month for as much rides as you like, is cheaper than gas. >> >K >> >Metra has a similar offer - an unlimited monthly pass. The cost dependssL >> >on how far you travel; however, the pricing is based on all trips endingL >> >in the city, not between stops on the rail lines. Generally, this rangesE >> >from circa. $100 US to just over $240 US (don't have all the faree) >> >schedules handy; so, that's a guess).I >> s) >> My one is a guess too, so don't worry.e >> e >> >T >> >>  So what you need is to create a faster, most point public-transit, that wouldP >> >>  increase readership that would reduce the prices, so more people is going >> >>  to use it.w >> >E >> >The problem is, to keep a lid on costs, public transit does this:1 >> >- >> > 1. Revenue is down and ridership is low.h! >> > 2. Cut service, raise fares.dG >> > 3. Ridership goes down due to reduced service and increased fares,c3 >> >    revenue goes down due to reduced ridership.i >> > 4. Go to 1. >> >" >> >I call that "terminal spiral". >>  F >> So the point is not:  "can't be done", is that is not usually done. >> c >> >Q >> >>  The problem is not that the public transport can't do the job, is that the S >> >>  city is build around the idea of cars, and redo it around a public-transport   >> >>  concept became expensive. >> >C >> >Not because it's expensive, although ultimately that may be theoL >> >fundamental driving factor. The idea is that to "correct" the situation,H >> >you would literally have to wipe the slate clean and start over, alaH >> >Hiroshima or Nagasaki(sp?). Moving businesses, homes, neighborhoods,K >> >industrial complexes, etc. simply cannot be done without some similarlyk% >> >cataclysmic form of intervention.e >> >I >> >I expect to shortly be visited by the "men in black", the guys in thea >> >white coats, or both...d >> > >> oM >> You  need that to get a perfect situation, but no to get a great gain over(0 >>  the actual situation in a city like Chicago. >> eJ >> just triple the elevated trains lines so it really cover the whole cityN >> (not the suburn area) and not only the loop, and a monthly pass that is notL >>  as expensive as taking 4 trips every day like it was at December and youM >>  would get a huge improvement, and at the end you could even finish with aA >> better bussines.h >> rK >> Force to change all the train crossing from at level to underway or witheI >>  bridges, you would end with faster trains, so you can put more trains1R >> in the same line, and less accidents, pay for the railways in the same way thatE >> you pay for roads, at the end both are used for the public. So the N >>  train-trainfare (that is not done even in europe, the truck companies haveN >> too much power, that kind of system would make train transport cheaper thanM >>  truck) could be reduced at half at least. There is a lot to do to improve9L >> public transport in Chicago, that don't need to redo the city, only moneyP >> at least initial money, althougth could end producing more money that it costO >>  but only in the long run. And usually not for the people that win the money  >>  now. >e1 >I usually "bottom post", but I didn't this time.d >u >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/M > ; >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >bG >This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postingst >is to be expected.  >eA >Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.a > G >However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, arei >strongly discouraged.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:05:18 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change' Message-ID: <3B28B68E.EB629340@fsi.net>n   Nigel Arnot wrote: > [snip]' > Persuading people of the need to makeRH > fairly major lifestyle changes is clearly "impossible" to you, but not > to me.  ? I don't recall saying it was "impossible", but I have suggested G (strongly) that it is unlikely. Mostly goes back to what we here in the E states call "The Alcoholic's Prayer" or "The Serenity Prayer", asking G for "the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to changet2 what I can and the wisdom to know the difference".  3 Q: Can one person affect mass change in lifestyles?r3 A: Ever heard of Michael Jackson? ...Homer Simpson?e  G Q: Can one person affect mass change in lifestyles to the betterment of  human-kind? % A: Ever heard of the carpenter's Son?9   Q: Is it possible? A: Yes.    Q: Is it likely?D A: Rather depends on the person, and the likelihood of such a personH being found behind a computer keyboard and lurking or participating in a
 newsgroup.  E > And unlike some, I don't expect such a major change to happen fast.+M > I simply want to see people starting to move away fron lifestyles that will-K > wreck the planet for out descendants, and towards ones that will leave iti. > to them in a state no worse than we find it.  E Actually, I think we all want that. It's a more a question of what weo can do vs. what we will do.e   <MOTIVATIONAL_SPEAKER>D What we can do is virtually umlimited. What we will do is frequentlyG disappointing and is usually the result of our beliefs. (Credit to Tony  Robbins for the thought.)r </MOTIVATIONAL_SPEAKER>d  H I purposely chose to end that statement rather than complte the thought,5 which I hope the reader will do in his/her own mind.    " > Personally, I think that if only  ( "if only"...  Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda...  , > governments would treat fusion research asI > a number-one priority and fund it with (say) 10% of what they currently K > spend on defense (if that's what it takes), we'd have unlimited tolerablyo) > clean electricity within a few decades.b  8 How do we MOTIVATE governments to assume such a posture?  H > > > One needs vision to see this and if you see it and start to act onX > > > it as soon as possible, your nation will be the first to benefit from that change. > > L > > ...and if you can help the world achieve that goal, you will be the next > > Bill Gates.d > >a3 > Hardly. You're after hearts and minds, not money.r  G When I took the job I just got laid off from, I actually turned down an F offer for more money at a place just up the road. I made this decisionE from the heart, in part. Judge for yourself whether or not I made theSG correct choice, whatever "correct" might mean to you. The reader cannot D know the options currently open to me, so let me simply suggest that0 this could be the "break" I've been waiting for.   > though of course, anM > sudden breakthrough in solar or fusion power would be massively profitable,uJ > but more probably one will see incremental development over decades that8 > require government of big-company development funding.  G Again, this goes back to why we do what what do. Mindsets and attitudesJB are not easily changed. The "trick", it would seem, is to make theH nobler ends more desirable in the mass-mindset than the monetary profits# that may be seen in such a venture.o  E With my double-digit IQ (99), I don't currently see a way to do that.dD YMMV considerably, as there are many in this forum with considerably! greater intelligence than myself.a  K > But if there's a Ghandi or a Kennedy who can win hearts and minds over tooK > accept the need for change, then he will at least be remembered as a good , > and great man by generations not yet born.   Agreed.e  F > * and yes, I know that big-dam hydro power is often not sustainable.  F Any such thing based on geology should be considered subject to change without notice. ;-)r   -- . David J. Dachtera9 dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.d   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jun 2001 13:48:32 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edut  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change+ Message-ID: <9gafbg$5de$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>g  2  jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes:  B >Vancouver _does_ have great public transporation.  You can easilyF >get arround on buses and trains.  Most people don't commit themselvesC >to standing in the rain waiting for a bus all their lives, though.d >w	 > We onceMB >calculated, using conservative assumptions, how many people-hoursG >were wasted sitting in traffic yearly and translated that to lifetimesu >lost. h  A >This was just the lives lost to wasted time.  We didn't have theoE >medical backgrounds to calculate how many people were dying sitting i: >in traffic inhaling the high concentrations of emissions.  5 But God forgid you waste your time waiting for a bus.b4 (do they sell rain coats or umbrellas in Vancouver?)    C IMHO there should be bus shelters and frequent bus scheduals (usingg8 smaller busses) but the logic of the complaint above ...   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2001 12:32:00 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)e  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change* Message-ID: <9gaou0$e6d$1@lisa.gemair.com>  + In article <9gafbg$5de$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>, '  <system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote: 3 > jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes:o >fC >>Vancouver _does_ have great public transporation.  You can easilyoG >>get arround on buses and trains.  Most people don't commit themselves D >>to standing in the rain waiting for a bus all their lives, though. >>
 >> We onceC >>calculated, using conservative assumptions, how many people-hoursgH >>were wasted sitting in traffic yearly and translated that to lifetimes >>lost.  > B >>This was just the lives lost to wasted time.  We didn't have theF >>medical backgrounds to calculate how many people were dying sitting ; >>in traffic inhaling the high concentrations of emissions.s >r6 >But God forgid you waste your time waiting for a bus.5 >(do they sell rain coats or umbrellas in Vancouver?)  >s >oD >IMHO there should be bus shelters and frequent bus scheduals (using9 >smaller busses) but the logic of the complaint above ...l >   < If you have a problem with logic, it's with the logic of the< Vancouverites who insisted both on having their cars and not< building roads.  It was they who seemed to not want to stand* in the rain at bus stops for years on end.  C I only go by what I see.  Public transportation riders in VancouvernA were dominated by the young and the poor.  There was some park & i? ride out from the Suburbs, but I happened to note that not too a? many people seemed to be taking Public Transportation into the cC GVRD (who has regional transit responsibility in Vancouver) officesd in Burnaby.t  B Do what I say, not what I do seems to be rampant amoung those who  push public transportation.t  E Of course, I _entered_ this discussion saying that this was off-topiciF and I wanted to stay away from such discussions in c.o.v, so hypocrisy3 isn't limited to Public Transportation Bureaucrats.g   >s   -Jordan Hendersonw jordan@greenapple.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:41:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <3B28F72D.D10AE82A@videotron.ca>   Nigel Arnot wrote:E > A sustainable lifestyle is one that relies only on renewable energyr, > sources: solar, wind, wave, hydro*, tidal.  K I would add a certain amount of "polluting" energy as long as the Earth caneH process/absorb these pollutants at a rate equal or greater to what we're producing. -  K > But if there's a Ghandi or a Kennedy who can win hearts and minds over to K > accept the need for change, then he will at least be remembered as a good , > and great man by generations not yet born.  I Agreed. And Kyoto, for all its faults, was a sign of leadership TOWARDS apK goal. A small step by governments and the start of a huge step for mankind.f  F > * and yes, I know that big-dam hydro power is often not sustainable.  J Well, once they are built, they are sustainable, but building the big damsL will require considerable flooding of habitable environments. A current megaM dam project in China is displacing hundreds of thousands of people. The HydrobK Qubec reservoirs for the James Bay project created lakes large enough thati0 average temperatures in the region were changed.  L But once the damage is done and the environment has adapted to its new self, it then becomes sustainable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:49:30 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <3B28F929.ECEE5FD7@videotron.ca>  $ system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:7 > But God forgid you waste your time waiting for a bus.i6 > (do they sell rain coats or umbrellas in Vancouver?)  K Many cities have implemented a phone number for each bus stop. You call thehL number and it tells you when the next bus is scheduled to arrive. (yes, that is a lot of phone numbers !).   N And when you take the bus regularly, you get to know the schedule and how longN you need to walk to the bus stop (or how late you can leave if you run all the: way to the bus stop, always trying to beat your record :-)  J These automated bus schedules are one of the best applications of computer telephony in my opinion.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:28:57 -0500<1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?' Message-ID: <3B28AE08.859FA92D@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:a > - > Syracuse "the mistake by the lake" New Yorka  1 I thought that's what they call Cleveland, OH....,   -- u David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsb http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.>   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.328 ************************>pO >> >> >It's still better than only getting three or four hours a sleep each day-J >> >> >because you're spending 6 or more hours a day walking / pedalling /I >> >> >riding mass transit. Whaddaya gonna do - work, eat, sleep, repeat?o >> >> >eK >> >> >JF, mass transit - even foot power - is fine for those who can avail L >> >> >themselves of its benefits. You *MUST* understand, however, that suchB 