1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 18 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 336       Contents:A Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com  %XPO ??  Re: %XPO ??  Re: %XPO ??  Re: %XPO ??  Re: %XPO ??  Re: %XPO ??  Re: %XPO ?? # Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000  ACMS logins exceeded Advanced Server  vs. Samba Re: Advanced Server  vs. Samba% Re: Alpha network sessions disconnect  RE: Cant get Hobbyist license!!  RE: cms question Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Wars Re: DCL READ problem in VMS 7.3 & Re: DECserver Telnet Listener password9 Re: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses + Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely?   Re: It's a VMS anniversary today  Re: It's a VMS anniversary today! Re: JBC-E-NOQUECTX from F$GETQUI.  Re: link err on $LOAD_DRIVER Re: modern day x-terminals Re: modern day x-terminals0 Re: Mozilla 0.9 how do I save email attachments. Re: Mozilla 0.9.1  Re: Mozilla 0.9.1 - faster Re: Mozilla 0.9.1 - faster) Re: Mozilla 0.9.1 - faster but no helpers  OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications7 Re: openVMS concurrent user licences (v7.2 on MicroVAX) 7 Re: openVMS concurrent user licences (v7.2 on MicroVAX)  Re: OpenVMS v7.3 and TCPIP V5.1 2 Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux2 RE: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux. Re: Oracle Multithreaded Server on VMS anyone?. Re: Oracle Multithreaded Server on VMS anyone?. OT - Of course: The Daily David Hobbs Repost 2 OT: I'm just a "pup"! 9 Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses 7 Pathworks or AdvancedServer for Hobbyist? Alternatives? & Re: Problem with JUMP from FREEWARE CD Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40s  Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40s  Re: Secured FTP  Re: Secured FTP  Re: Secured FTP # Re: Setting up Mail, WEB page, etc.  setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3 # Re: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3 # RE: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3 # Re: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3  UCX problem - printing? other?" Re: UCX problem - printing? other?" Re: UCX problem - printing? other? Re: V7.3 backup "improvement" 
 Re: VMSTAR X25 and FTAM problem X25 problem  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:40:05 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> J Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - but boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.com8 Message-ID: <nudritskp6ksvkqgeqne8s0772mmmm11fn@4ax.com>  1 On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:45:12 +0100, Tim Llewellyn   <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:   >  >  > M >It was a custom job built by one of the groups engineers', with assistance I  >thinkM >from RAL. Had many a fun hot summer grad student afternoon wiggling the Qbus N >cards to get rid of shorts (electrical ones that is, thoug I seem to remember	 >that lab G >got VERY hot sometimes, all those vavle scopes and 40 Watt PSU's) :-).  > I >Certainly noone ever told me of a hardware bootstrap loader for magtape. O >I just did what the others showed me when the disk needed restoring (which was  >far8 >to often IIRC). What was it? Some early form of EEPROM?  D Just an early ROM type I think. I don't recall any way to re-programE it.  By default it would attempt to load from disk  but it would read ? a certain data location which you could pre-load (via the front D panel). Some of these bits corresponded to the boot source. PossiblyF the physical address in I/O space of the tape drive interface. I thinkD the Unix guy knew it could boot from disk but was not aware it could/ boot from tape as well.. Seems so long ago now.  > P >Anyway, I ain't no computer scientist, just an ex-scientist who uses computers. >  >>F >> In the case if the visiting professor from St. Andrews the hardwareH >> bootstrap had no problems with his tape. Unlike his manually keyed in6 >> version which took him three attempts to get right. >> >  >:-) of course.   C In the end it wasn't very usable. The tape contained a minimal Unix A which could install on an RK05 and only had a limited set of disk A drivers. Unfortunately the 11 we were installing on had CDC disks E which emulated RP series drives but with slightly non standard number D of sectors requiring some changes in the RP class disk driver. I wasF not able to restore a sufficient subset of kernel + source + compilersC etc on the RK05 to do this and only had a limited amount of time to F play with it. It ended up with TSX+ (timesharing version of RT-11) and1 was used for secretarial MASS-11 word-processing.  -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 13:53:07 GMT' From: "NoSpam" <test@donotspam.kpn.com>  Subject: %XPO ??8 Message-ID: <01c0f7fe$0055c9f0$2c0a17ac@HKTGV0003201421>  1 Can anybody shed some light on this one, please ?   G The message "%XPO-W-NOP1VA, P1 space not supported in shareable images" - keeps popping up in our application logfiles.   K I tried to find the message in the available manuals but could not find it.   F The only lead i have is that these messages started occurring after we migrated to VAX-Alpha.  D Could calling sys$getmsg or sys$fao lead to forementioned messages ?  & BTW we are using ACMS, COBOL and DBMS.   Thank you in advance.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:35:05 +0200 ) From: "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr>  Subject: Re: %XPO ??$ Message-ID: <3b2e03b0@news.euriware>   Help/mess Nop1va   ... F User action: relink the image, positioning all binary data in p0 space  8 Don't know a lot about your app but can try link/p0image Hope this help  ? "NoSpam" <test@donotspam.kpn.com> a crit dans le message news: - 01c0f7fe$0055c9f0$2c0a17ac@HKTGV0003201421... 3 > Can anybody shed some light on this one, please ?  > I > The message "%XPO-W-NOP1VA, P1 space not supported in shareable images" / > keeps popping up in our application logfiles.  > I > I tried to find the message in the available manuals but could not find  it.  > H > The only lead i have is that these messages started occurring after we > migrated to VAX-Alpha. > F > Could calling sys$getmsg or sys$fao lead to forementioned messages ? > ( > BTW we are using ACMS, COBOL and DBMS. >  > Thank you in advance.  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:48:18 -0400 , From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> Subject: Re: %XPO ??8 Message-ID: <dp4sit4jc8eurs94124tmnukd4biffs1p1@4ax.com>  E On 18 Jun 2001 13:53:07 GMT, "NoSpam" <test@donotspam.kpn.com> wrote:   2 >Can anybody shed some light on this one, please ? > H >The message "%XPO-W-NOP1VA, P1 space not supported in shareable images". >keeps popping up in our application logfiles. > L >I tried to find the message in the available manuals but could not find it. > G >The only lead i have is that these messages started occurring after we  >migrated to VAX-Alpha.  > E >Could calling sys$getmsg or sys$fao lead to forementioned messages ?   A The particular message is, I am sure, bogus.  Your application is D probably calling SYS$GETMSG with an invalid status.  The real NOP1VA< message is a SYSTEM facility message with a fatal severity.   B As it happens, XPO-W-NOP1VA is what you get if you try interpret a( string of four ASCII blanks as a status.    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)  Fortran Engineering & Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:58:36 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: %XPO ??L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011058360001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  A In article <01c0f7fe$0055c9f0$2c0a17ac@HKTGV0003201421>, "NoSpam"  <test@donotspam.kpn.com> wrote:   3 > Can anybody shed some light on this one, please ?  > I > The message "%XPO-W-NOP1VA, P1 space not supported in shareable images" / > keeps popping up in our application logfiles.  > M > I tried to find the message in the available manuals but could not find it.  > H > The only lead i have is that these messages started occurring after we > migrated to VAX-Alpha.  J That doesn't narrow it down very much.  Quite a few things changed between VAX and Alpha.  :-)   F > Could calling sys$getmsg or sys$fao lead to forementioned messages ? > ( > BTW we are using ACMS, COBOL and DBMS.  / Post the versions of everything, including VMS.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:56:58 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: %XPO ??3 Message-ID: <expX6.1535$fi2.47671@news.cpqcorp.net>   b In article <01c0f7fe$0055c9f0$2c0a17ac@HKTGV0003201421>, "NoSpam" <test@donotspam.kpn.com> writes:2 :Can anybody shed some light on this one, please ? : H :The message "%XPO-W-NOP1VA, P1 space not supported in shareable images". :keeps popping up in our application logfiles.  K   You might have an unterminated or overly-long string, and are scribbling  I   spaces onto the stack -- by way of explanation, the binary value of the J   message code for this error is %X20202020, which just happens to be the "   same value as four ASCII spaces.  E :Could calling sys$getmsg or sys$fao lead to forementioned messages ?   
   Oh, yeah...     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 18:26:43 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  Subject: Re: %XPO ??H Message-ID: <y4y9qp69fg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  . Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> writes:  D > As it happens, XPO-W-NOP1VA is what you get if you try interpret a* > string of four ASCII blanks as a status.  J You're cheating, you must have seen this before...what kind of facility is XPO?   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:06:11 -0400 , From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> Subject: Re: %XPO ??8 Message-ID: <cvcsitos3d78a01at8s2p5adu16fkeqtog@4ax.com>  . On 18 Jun 2001 18:26:43 +0200, Jan Vorbrueggen8 <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:  / >Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> writes:  > E >> As it happens, XPO-W-NOP1VA is what you get if you try interpret a + >> string of four ASCII blanks as a status.  > K >You're cheating, you must have seen this before...what kind of facility is  >XPO?   ' Nope, not cheating.  Here's what I did.   ' $ search sys$library:starlet.req nop1va  literal SS$_NOP1VA = 8228;
 $ x = 8228 $ sh symb x 0   X = 8228   Hex = 00002024  Octal = 00000020044  C This is a F serverity message, so what would it be with W severity? @ 2020!  Recognizing this as two blanks, I decide to see what four blanks would display...   ( $ write sys$output f$message(%x20202020)9 %XPO-W-NOP1VA, P1 space not supported in shareable images    Bingo!    E XPO is XPORT, a BLISS portability library that went out of fashion at  least 15 years ago.   5 Note that because the low-order word doesn't have the E facility-specific bit set (15), that anything in the upper word would + cause a different facility to be displayed.       - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)  Fortran Engineering & Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:50:26 GMT 8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>, Subject: Re: 10 vs 100 Mb ethernet on xp1000( Message-ID: <3B2DA1D7.4EBE15DC@decus.fi>  9 You may need some patches form VMS. I had once XP1000 and < I had EWA0_MODE FASTFD and still VMS would come up in 10Mbit8 mode. I think VMS721_LAN V2.0 fixed it. I had originally7 the problem with 7.3 EFT1 and therefore decided to test 7 V7.1-2, V7.2-1 also to see whether changing VMS version  makes difference.    _veli    Dave Greenwood wrote:  > K > I just installed a new XP1000 into a cluster (replacing an older system). K > It's running 7.2-1 with the VMS721_UPDATE V2.0 patch, plus other patches. H > It's a few K miles away so I can't see the console.  I also don't knowG > much about its physical characteristics except what I can see through I > various VMS tools.  (All that's by way of excusing the somewhat inexact $ > description of the problem below.) > J > The ethernet mode (ewa0_mode) is set to auto-negotiate.  When the systemG > is powered up it negotiates 100Mb, full-duplex.  Apparently, when VMS H > starts it renegotiates to 10Mb.  That's based on the report of someoneF > sitting at the console.  We, obviously, want a 100Mb connection.  WeJ > tried setting ewa0_mode at the console to fast, full-duplex (or whateverI > the appropriate value is, I'm not sure what the exact terminology is on G > an XP1000), but that didn't work - the hub on the remote end wouldn't  > talk to the XP1000 at all. >  > My questions are:  > & > Why would VMS renegotiate the speed? > * > Can I force the 100Mb speed?  If so how? > : > How can I determine the ethernet speed setting from VMS? > 2 > What other info do I need to solve this problem? > 	 > Thanks,  > Dave > --------------; > Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV J > Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 03:43:00 -0700+ From: paul_hallam@my-deja.com (Paul Hallam)  Subject: ACMS logins exceeded < Message-ID: <e0f79ac8.0106180243.f7ec8bb@posting.google.com>  D Can anyone help as we have taken over a VMS 2 node cluster with ACMS and are getting the message  $ acms/enter& Maximum number of ACMS logins exceeded  F We have amended the acmsgen parameters as defined in the documentation& BUT are still getting these messages :  ? number of interactive ACMS users is 18 and 14 for the two nodes F $ACMS/SHOW SYSTEM lists 18/14 users and 3/3 applications (on node1 and node2)  4 ACTIVE and CURRENT parameters are the same and are : MAX_LOGINS = 80  MAX_TTS_CP = 50  CP_SLOTS   = 5  F We have only amended the dynamic parameters MAX_LOGINS and MAX_TTS_CP.  9 Can anyone explain why we are still getting the problems.    Paul   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 07:09:26 -0700* From: polato@igi.pd.cnr.it (Sandro Polato)# Subject: Advanced Server  vs. Samba = Message-ID: <2af2b3d8.0106180609.7feef36a@posting.google.com>    Hi all, D    I'd like to know about your experiences with Samba on OpenVMS and  Advanced Server. In particular :  ? o  After a test of Samba has anyone opted for Advanced Server o  viceversa ? And why ?   4 o  Does the current version of Samba support ODS-5 ?  C o  Has anyone noted a strong performance difference between the two 
 products ?  E o  Has anyone a positive experience with Samba - or Advanced Server -  and Multinet ?  A The kind of object I'd like to build is a powerfull CIFS/NFS file A server based on a OpenVMS cluster. About your opinion, could thisgB solution be a competitive alternative - in term of performance andE functionality - to classics NAS (Network Attached Storage) appliances0* based on Linux core o Windows Powered OS ?   0 Thank in advance for your discussion contribute.  
 Sandro Polatos   www.itre.com/mfg   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 18:53:24 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: Advanced Server  vs. Samba * Message-ID: <3b2e3204$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  j In article <2af2b3d8.0106180609.7feef36a@posting.google.com>, polato@igi.pd.cnr.it (Sandro Polato) writes:E >   I'd like to know about your experiences with Samba on OpenVMS andR! >Advanced Server. In particular :e >o@ >o  After a test of Samba has anyone opted for Advanced Server o >viceversa ? And why ?   1) supported	 2) fasterr" 3) External authentication supportH 4) reduced server load (only 9 processes instead of 1 plus 1 per client)  5 >o  Does the current version of Samba support ODS-5 ?t   Dunno   D >o  Has anyone noted a strong performance difference between the two >products ?   9 Yup. SAMBA drives server CPU to 100%, PWRK used only 30%.o  F >o  Has anyone a positive experience with Samba - or Advanced Server - >and Multinet ?M   No (on TCPware).  B >The kind of object I'd like to build is a powerfull CIFS/NFS fileB >server based on a OpenVMS cluster. About your opinion, could thisC >solution be a competitive alternative - in term of performance andIF >functionality - to classics NAS (Network Attached Storage) appliances+ >based on Linux core o Windows Powered OS ?O  9 NOTE: I must admit, that I did the tests with SAMBA V1.9."I SAMBA V2.x is a lot better, but it doesn't offer external authentication.    -- "< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888t< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  / Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:33:05 +0200 (MET DST),& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>. Subject: Re: Alpha network sessions disconnect6 Message-ID: <200106180728.JAA03737@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  F check that the console value for the Ethernet controller are exact theF same as the switch values (that meen EWA0_MODE FASTFD if the switch isH set to 100Mb and fullduplex). Be aware, that both values are set manuellE at the switch (sometimes the duplex is still autonegotiation). To use C the $MCR LANCP SHOW DEV/ALL/CHAR to check the rightness is not goodeJ enaugh. I did see a correct parameter setup, but the net did not function.F After changing the console parameters and the switch to manuell FASTFD all function well.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:00:01 -0500e* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>( Subject: RE: Cant get Hobbyist license!!- Message-ID: <0033000026806916000002L062*@MHS>O  > =0AI'd suggest that you email Montagar and Encompass about it.' Anything else you suggest is not legal.t   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETJ& > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 10:24 PMF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET& > Subject: Cant get Hobbyist license!! >- >-H > Arrrgh, Montagar is STILL not synched with the Decus database!!!  So = Ir< > cant get my doggone hobbyist license!   Is there any other > stinking way
 > to get one?  >s: > ANyone have a 6.2 or 7.2 pak and media they want to part > with?  1 user? > 10 user? Lemme know!  Thanks!m >=   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 08:39:28 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: RE: cms questionn3 Message-ID: <wXMElvMQuO$k@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ] In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEPNCLAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes: M > Well, firstly, this is code that I inherited.  There is a common CMS to the  > two environments.  >   ? Sounds like a common CMS with different descrip.mms files?  ThetF descrip.mms file itself should be maintained in CMS, MMS will fetch it* if there isn't one around when MMS is run.  H Or does a single descrip.mms file actually differentiate between VAX andH Alpha builds?  Sometimes this is required due to LINK option differences9 or such, but it sounds like an extra difference snuck in.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationf= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  / Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:33:25 +0200 (MET DST) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>' Subject: Re: Compaq Exits PC Price Warsb6 Message-ID: <200106180628.IAA03285@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Andrew Harrison wrotes:i   >>> < SunRays are ultra thin clients, no moving parts (unless you < could speakers) no installable software and nothing to admin: except an Ethernet address which needs to be added to the  server.v <<<U  H Yes , the SunRays are ultra thin clients. Normaly you have to admin themD only once (first time you install them). But often you have to adminB the display parameters. Also is a SunRay not cheap!!! If you buy aB SunRay for 1200,00DM you need also a license (~100,00DM/SunRay), aE monitor (600,00DM) and an Ethernet card in the SunServer (1500,00DM).tF You need a powerfull server (much CPU power and a lot of memory) whichM cost a lot of momey. Other the VNC solution. You need a small PC (~2000,00DM)-E and the VNC freeware. That's all. The other end can be anything else,nI a low cost PC, a workstation, or an expensive server. If you shutdown the2K VNC client, you will see nothing, other then the SunRay (excesive link down%H message). So I think, that the total cost of onership is not so good for the SunRay.lG My wish is to get a multiseat workstation with the possibility to stores; the monitor, keyboard, maus near by or far away (~100meter)e   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:43:28 -0600e* From: Terry Aardema <taardema@nrcan.gc.ca>( Subject: Re: DCL READ problem in VMS 7.3' Message-ID: <3B2E1390.1ECC@nrcan.gc.ca>-   Drew Shelton wrote:u >  > Thanks, Terry, that fixed it!p >   A Your welcome, Drew; I struggled with this for months before I was@4 finally annoyed enough to figure out what was wrong.  B BTW, I have raised this issue (in the broder context of "... you'dG better double check all your .COM's for the parse_style problems ...". S  G Finally, if you ever have an installation (VMSINSTAL or PSCI) fail, trycE it again with after a SET PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE=TRADITIONAL (just guess H what problem was annoying enough for me to figure this out; no, I woun'tF give you any hints!); it's amazing how many DCL procedures rely on the TRADITIONAL parsing... :-)   Have a day.a  
 Terry Aardemat   > Drew >  > >Drew Shelton wrote: > >>3 > >> "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@sema.co.uk> wrote: L > >> >Everybody's looking for some bizarre complexities, without eliminating% > >> >the simple possibilities first.e > >>; > >> I've eliminated all of the simple ones I can think of.  > >>M > >> >When you installed 7.3, did you create any new symbols or logical names  > >> >unintentionally? > >> > >> Not that I know of. > >> > 	 > ><SNIP>4 >  > >Try > " > >$ SET PROCESS/PARSE=TRADITIONAL > ' > >and then run your command procedure.. > H > >With parse style set to EXTENDED, the lowercased logical names aren't
 > >recognizedOK > >by DCL! I discovered this when I was trying to figure out why VMSLICENSEo > >wouldn'tn > >work for me either. > C > >And this also explains why some people have the problem and some  > >don't...d >  > >Terry Aardema > >Systems and Network ManagerE > >Natural Resources Canada/Canadian Forest Service/Northern Forestryo	 > >Centrer >  > >#include <disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 12:13:46 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: DECserver Telnet Listener passwords* Message-ID: <3b2dd45a$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  w In article <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C630523278F@ASX235.asx.com.au>, Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> writes:SL >I have a DECserver 700 which I've been using for HSG/HSJ console access viaF >reverse LAT and a locally defined service.  These services are alwaysI >created with a password at the very least, basically to secure them fromm >general population access.R >rJ >I'd like to switch these services to a telnet style access (TELNET serverL >port) so I can use Perl scripting for DRM access but I can't seem to secureE >them via a password mechanism.  Can this be done?  Given there is no C >'access' password on the console path itself it's pretty insecure.P  E Can't be done (with TELNET; as you already know, no problem with LAT)   B What comes nearest is enabling the "remote password" on that port,6 but this passwort is common for the complete server...   -- l< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888m< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:47:48 -0400y; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>mB Subject: Re: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses$ Message-ID: <3b2e30e9$1@news.si.com>  J >It has been rumored that engineers riding unicycles have been seen in theL >halls of ZKO and on occasion things have disapeared into the non-paged poolD >(really a pond) and lost for good (I have a mail system like that).   Must be Exchange.h --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comeA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.come= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventn< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 08:18:17 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r4 Subject: Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely?3 Message-ID: <ZBPTBKcIOSHB@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  [ In article <3B27AB97.42AAA05@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:p > O > Does a device driver do the equivalent of $DCLAST to queue the completion AST-M > ? If so, wouldn't it be very obvious that he should first fill out the IOSBa$ > before declaring/queuing the AST ? >   F The device driver itself doesn't generally fire this AST.  It puts theD IOSB contents into R0,R1 and calls a kernel routine to tell VMS thatD it's done with the I/O request.  The VMS kernel then passes back theG IOSB content and requests the AST using code which is common to all I/ON postprocessing.   G I realy doubt the VMS I/O postprocessing code has a bug in it that onlyoC you are seeing.  VMS systems around the world must complete several A quadrillion I/O's every day.  (Very rough estimate I just made).   Someone else would see it, too.t  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation6= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupuE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:48:41 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brs) Subject: Re: It's a VMS anniversary todaynL Message-ID: <OF542BCF27.D8D7AFD8-ON03256A6F.003B54DC@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  # 1976 ? I was just 4 years old ! ! !s   TOO much time !      Fabio_        < "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> em 15/06/2001 16:08:28  7 Favor responder a "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>h             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0      ) Assunto: Re: It's a VMS anniversary todays         Sue Skonetski wrote:D > The following is the header page of SYSQIOREQ.MAR off the VMS V1.0H > resd. If Dave's creation date is to be believed (and it's historicallyF > plausible), then today marks the 25th anniversary of the creation of! > the first source module of VMS.r > ! > It's been one hell of a trip...e >i > - Andy   [snip]   > 23 ; D. N. CUTLER 14-JUN-76     - It's certainly been one hell of a trip but it - started a bit earlier, I think. SYSCVRTIM.LIS ( has a DNC entry for 6-JAN-76 (even if he, misslepped it and meant 6-J*U*N-76, it still+ comes in a week and a day earlier ... I can-, only assume that source-code control was not. big in those days so we'll never know although0 suspiciously little was done FEB-76 to MAY-76!).  + IOSUBNPAG.LIS and IOSUBPAGD.LIS both have aE 13-JUN-76 date.    Antoniod   --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:30:55 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>n) Subject: Re: It's a VMS anniversary today1' Message-ID: <3B2E3ACF.F199F747@iee.org>   ' Yes but only because the CD happened ton( be sitting in an RRD40 in the office ...& I should have copied it (and the other/ one) to disk and then I could have searched the1 entire listing set :-)   Antonioh  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > % > 1976 ? I was just 4 years old ! ! !o >  > TOO much time !e >  > Fabiot > > > "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> em 15/06/2001 16:08:28 > 9 > Favor responder a "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>b >  >       Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma > + > Assunto: Re: It's a VMS anniversary todaym >  > Sue Skonetski wrote:F > > The following is the header page of SYSQIOREQ.MAR off the VMS V1.0J > > resd. If Dave's creation date is to be believed (and it's historicallyH > > plausible), then today marks the 25th anniversary of the creation of# > > the first source module of VMS.  > >v# > > It's been one hell of a trip...o > >e
 > > - Andy >  > [snip] >  > > 23 ; D. N. CUTLER 14-JUN-76' > / > It's certainly been one hell of a trip but itt/ > started a bit earlier, I think. SYSCVRTIM.LIS * > has a DNC entry for 6-JAN-76 (even if he. > misslepped it and meant 6-J*U*N-76, it still- > comes in a week and a day earlier ... I cani. > only assume that source-code control was not0 > big in those days so we'll never know although2 > suspiciously little was done FEB-76 to MAY-76!). > - > IOSUBNPAG.LIS and IOSUBPAGD.LIS both have a  > 13-JUN-76 date.E > 	 > Antonio  >  > -- >  > ----------------/ > Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgr   -- l   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:12:15 -0500h From: ssparrow@csc.com* Subject: Re: JBC-E-NOQUECTX from F$GETQUI.9 Message-ID: <OFA929BCB0.00389529-ON86256A6F.004D6FED@com>g  : I used to get context related error messages on one system  when using PID = $F$PID(context)9 I don't remember the exact error message but it mentionedS9 an invalid context. F$context("process",context,"cancel")iA didn't help.  My only fix was to reboot the one particular systemE2 and the problem went away and hasn't yet returned. This is on OpenVMS VAX V6.2    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:15:32 -0700a* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>% Subject: Re: link err on $LOAD_DRIVERl4 Message-ID: <PQpX6.4209$Ib.457766@news1.primary.net>  B "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in2 message news:009FDAF1.10BF9440@SendSpamHere.ORG... >6H > Looks like the ENABLE-IDE.COM file is not linking it against the image > SYS$SHARE:IOGEN$SHARE.EXE  >O > Trya > + > $ LINK/SYSEXE ENABLE-IDE,SYS$INPUT/OPTIONa! > SYS$SHARE:IOGEN$SHARE.EXE/SHARE  > ^Z >SH That fixed it.  Note to the Freeware maintainer to add a small change toE [DQDRIVER].  It would also be nice to include the isacfg setup in thee notes (or is that necessary?).  C It's working but ouch, 96% CPU time on interrupts (Alphastation 400nB 4/233) and incredibly slow.  I can see why VMS doesn't support IDE disks.    Jack Peacocks   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 15:05:29 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)# Subject: Re: modern day x-terminals , Message-ID: <9gl5bp$g6p@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  n In article <M7cyShwo3vNd@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell) writes: >tL >Does anybody know of a currently supported x-terminal?  Basically somethingO >like the vxt 2000+, but with current hardware and software.  I have a xvt, but L >I don't really use it.  It's slow and doesn't have that much memory.  Also,M >most of my network is 100 megabit, but of course the ancient vxt is only 10.e >  >  > P >Before anybody mentions emulation on PCs, I do *not* want to use a PC for this.M >I would prefer a dedicated x-terminal, if such are still being manufactured.e  / Well, even though you said not to mention it...f  
 1.  Take a PCa 2.  Install Linux or BSD on it.cD 3.  Configure it to run nothing but X11, and to do that at start up.  I and you have a machine that's for all intents and purposes a dedicated X-oL terminal.  I think you could even save this configuration onto a CDROM, and ? boot from that.  So that nobody could monkey with the settings.    Just a thought.x   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech c   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:29:22 +0100S< From: "Gordon Pimblott" <gordon.pimblott@uk.thalesgroup.com># Subject: Re: modern day x-terminalsr% Message-ID: <9gl6r2$mcn$1@rdel.co.uk>s  F We currently use the NC900 range from NCD which sems to be the currentL replacement for their "classic" X terminal. It does alot more if you want itI (i.e. JAVA console), but can be configured to be just an X terminal. They + still appear to be reasonably VMS friendly.e   Gordon Pimblott6  4 "Jim Becker" <jbecker@ui.urban.org> wrote in message& news:3B2C3139.33F44B47@ui.urban.org... > Wayne Sewell wrote:s > >tE > > Does anybody know of a currently supported x-terminal?  Basicallys	 something-I > > like the vxt 2000+, but with current hardware and software.  I have a, xvt, butH > > I don't really use it.  It's slow and doesn't have that much memory. Also,eL > > most of my network is 100 megabit, but of course the ancient vxt is only 10.n >eF > I used to use and like NCD's X terminals (http://www.ncd.com/). TheyG > were good products, and included support for the VMS environment. I'mpH > not familiar with NCD's current Explora line. I don't know whether NCD > is still friendly to VMS.t >iI > > Before anybody mentions emulation on PCs, I do *not* want to use a PCt	 for this.u > C > I tend to agree. In my experience, the PC-based X emulators don'tfE > behave as well as either an X terminal or an X workstation/console.lF > You don't drag windows across the PC display, you smear them across.C > Display updates take longer. However, since I currently have no XWD > terminals at my disposal, I must settle for a PC-based X emulator. >D > -- > Jim Becker- > The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/)i) > Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)g0 > ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:02:51 GMTE' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>M9 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9 how do I save email attachments.m- Message-ID: <3B2DD198.75BD2DEF@theblakes.com>n  L It surprised me that Mozilla shipped M0.9.1 with this bug too, but they did. See=1 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71397t   Colin.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:27:17 +0100d* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.1, Message-ID: <9gkl27$1ics@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  J "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d> wrote in message( news:SaHi3RGc9HXz@tachxxsoftxxconsult...  P > What a stupid thing to do, making such a major change at the last minute. TheyP > should be concentrating on fixing bugs in preparation for the released version/ > instead of adding new features/functionality.   P Mozilla is a long way from a 1.0 final release (Q4 at the earliest). The version  numbering is somewhat arbitrary.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:47:00 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e# Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.1 - fastera8 Message-ID: <cajritkg998v927bpfs2rkrlhm7aj0g52u@4ax.com>  F On 16 Jun 2001 13:43:57 -0500, hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:   >Hi, >-M >Mozilla 0.9.1 is considerably faster than 0.9 on my DPW 433au.  I have found L >only one issue so far: the inability to type an address into the URL windowO >without crashing the browser with some kind of error having to do with threadsmR >(no details - the box is at work, and I haven't had time to document the problem.O >The box is 7.2-1 with most of the level-1 ECO's.  I applied the latest THREADS:) >patch, but the problem keeps happening).2  F From feedback I've received this problem is not VMS specific and thereB is a bugzilla entry about it. If you type CTRL-SHIFT-L you will beE able to type in the URL. CTRL-L crashes so it has to be CTRL-SHIFT-L.x  N >I agree; progress is being made.  Just remember - it's less than beta-qualityN >software.  Don't use it to monitor your nuclear power plant, or keep track of3 >incoming nuclear warheads from North Korea, etc...m >  >:-) >a >--Brade >  >>In article <rdeininger-1606011301140001@user-2ive6ri.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:d ><snip> H >> I don't know any details of this socket stuff, but it's possible theyK >> needed some functionality that requires BSD 4.4.  Remember how everybodytK >> has been complaining about problems with Mozilla?  Maybe this fixes some  >> of them.  >> yJ >> If it was easy, maybe you or I would have already done it.  The MozillaE >> folks are making progess; I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.e >> v >> --  >> Robert Deiningert >> rdeininger@mindspring.com   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 08:19:42 -05007 From: hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)m# Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.1 - faster 3 Message-ID: <VDsHDpRnsG47@eisner.encompasserve.org>-   Hi Alan,   Thanks for the tip - it works!   --Brad` In article <cajritkg998v927bpfs2rkrlhm7aj0g52u@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:H > On 16 Jun 2001 13:43:57 -0500, hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. > Hamilton) wrote: [snip]  H > From feedback I've received this problem is not VMS specific and thereD > is a bugzilla entry about it. If you type CTRL-SHIFT-L you will beG > able to type in the URL. CTRL-L crashes so it has to be CTRL-SHIFT-L.  [snip] > -- > Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 15:17:59 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)2 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.1 - faster but no helpers, Message-ID: <9gl637$g6p@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  p In article <009FDA9A.4B86AF85@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:% >When will this thing actually run?  r  H There's a significant probability that the answer is "Never".  Hence theF incredible foolhardiness of Compaq depending upon this project to ever deliver a browser for VMS. h  H Tru64 has a native version of Navigator 4.7, and the same binary runs onK Linux/Alpha once a "Tru64 compatibility library" has been added.  I suspectyG that it would be easier to get that Tru64 binary running on VMS than itaI would be to finish Mozilla.  And of course, once that's running, there isTE the possibility of other binaries running on all three systems.  But aH spending money on something like that would require a long term strategyD and some semblance of an understanding of the needs of the customer,3 neither of which seem to be within Compaq's grasp.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech sJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:20:25 -0400s2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: OpenVMS Applications03 Message-ID: <kenX6.1524$fi2.47447@news.cpqcorp.net>l   Dear Newsgroup,u  J I hear from many of you that you are looking for applications on VMS, I amD going to try an post a number of notes or pointers for different VMS5 applications, if you know of any please post as well.t  
 Warm Regards,c   Suem   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:25:11 -0400s2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsc3 Message-ID: <5boX6.1527$fi2.47485@news.cpqcorp.net>m   Dear Newsgroup,   F Here is a list of some of our partners I will add more as I find them.   Suep   Advanced Systems Conceptsd Contact:  jrizzolo@syscon.comy   www.advsyscon.comh       Solution Description:i  I RemoteSHADOW is an application transparent replications software solutionoJ that ensures data is continuously protected and available at a contingencyH site in the event of a product site failure.  RemoteSHADOW, a host-basedI solution, protects data without regard to distance, imposes no artificial1E bandwidth requirements and protects customer's investment in existing- storage systems.  K ActiveBatch is an Enterprise Cross-Platform (OpenVMS, Windows2000/NT, Unix)lF Job Scheduling and Management System designed for Windows 2000/NT thatG automates processes and jobs throughout an organization using Calendar,I, Event and On-Demand Scheduling capabilities.       VAX and Alpha support.       Attunity, Ltd.    Contact: ron.denaro@attunity.com   www.attunity.com       Solution Description:o  L OpenVMS bundles Attunity Connect into the On Platform Package enabling usersD to interoperate with emerging technologies such as the Internet, B2BE Integration Web Services and Business-oriented process integration toEF leverage the scalability, reliability, and performance of Alpha series" platforms.  VAX and Alpha support.       Argent/MVP Systems, Inc.  7 Contact:  jvottero@mvpsi.com and bshackelford@mvpsi.coma    http://jams.argent-software.com/       Solution Description:B  J JAMS is an Enterprise Class job scheduler.  Features include dependencies,K resources, parameter substitution, natural language dates, automatic and ond4 request jobs plus many more.  VAX and Alpha support.       BEA Systems, Inc.c  ! Contact:  Yvonne.white@compaq.com    www.bea.comm       Solution Description:d  F BEA WebLogic Server on OpenVMS.  This industry-leading Web applicationD server on OpenVMS delivers unmatched performance and reliability forE powering the world's most sophisticated e-business applications.  Thea? award-winning BEA WebLogic Server offers the most comprehensive E implementation of Java (J2EE) standards.  No other application server L features broader support for Enterprise JavaBeans (EJB) and J2EE.  CustomersI can manage their application components using the graphic Java console toSI ensure security, scalability, performance, and transactional integrity ofaH their e-business solutions.  Customer's benefit by being able to developK e-business applications faster, accommodate their growing customer base andoJ expansion plans, simplify development, and deploy with reliability.  Alpha support.       Bridgehead Software - Contact:  paul.Roberts@bridgeheadsoftware.com    www.bridgeheadsoftware.com       Solution Description:-  I Bridgehead Software offers HyperTape/OpenMedia - an automated back up andcH restore software solution for the enterprise running on multi-platforms,J combined with an enterprise wide media manager running on multi-platforms. VAX and Alpha support.       CCSS Corporation Contact:  Pedersen@CCSScorp.comc   www.CCSScorp.com       Solution Description:8  K CCSS Interactive Learning: Web-based, self-paced instruction on the web forV5 OpenVMS and related products.  VAX and Alpha support.s       Cognos# Contact: Conrad.whittall@cognos.coml   www.cognos.com/openvms       Solution Description:1  I The Cognos PowerHouse family of high-productivity application development B tools is ideal for quickly building reliable and scalable businessJ applications for the Web, Windows, or terminal-based users.  VAX and Alpha support.       Comtek Services3   Contact:  dwinans@aol.com    www.comtekservices.com       Solution Description:e  K Comtek offers an SNMP-compliant product that sends information about system L performance to a Management Product (Insight, HP-OpenView, etc.)  VMS V5.5+;H TCP/IP Services UCX, MultiNet, TCPware and Pathways compatible.  VAX and Alpha support.       EBizz Consulting Plc  + Contact:  joe. Farrell@ebizz-consulting.comO   www.ebizz-consulting.com       Solution Description:e  E EBizz Consulting provides eBusiness solutions and systems integrationaC services enabling OpenVMS customers to transition efficiently to an I eBusiness environment, thereby preserving existing technology investments:5 while maximizing opportunities provided by eBusiness.C       Ericom Software / Contact:  eran@ericom.com and mpound@ericom.comi   www.ericom.com       Solution Description:   K PowerTerm Host Publisher speeds and simplifies web and wireless enabling ofiA legacy systems into business-to-business and business-to-consumerbF applications, extending the life of host data.  VAX and Alpha support.       Foliage Software Systems  7 Contact:  ddeshmukh@foliage.com, chourihan@foliage.com,  dbergevine@foliage.com   www.foliage.comr      I Foliage Software Systems, a leading customer software development service F provider, has created an enhanced version of RTR for use in developingE mission-critical, high availability systems.  Enhanced RTR provides aaH component-based application development alternative for C++ and Java for RTR.  Alpha support.       Heroix Corporation Limited# Contact:  Andrew.crisp@heroix.co.ukv   www.heroix.com      I RoboMon for OpenVMS - new version available including support for OpenVMS4F V7.3 providing improved cluster handling for Galaxy and AlphaServer GS series.  VAX and Alpha Support.I       IONA Contact:  awilson@iona.com   www.iona.com       Solution Description:-  F IONA Suite - consisting of iPortal Server, iPortal Application Server,K iPortal Integrator, iPortal OS/390 Server, Netfish XDS, iPortal XMLBus, andlL Orbix 2000 - fully compliments the high reliability and stability of OpenVMSF running Compaq AlphaServer systems.  Together, IONA and Compaq deliverG powerful total business integration solutions that stand up to the mosteK intense demands of your mission-critical business-to-business applications,.E giving your enterprise a clear edge in the hotly competitive Internet1  economy.  VAX and Alpha support.      # Integrated Computer Solutions, Inc.    Contact:  mhatch@ics.com       Solution Description:g  I Integrated Computer Solutions provides Builder Xcessory, the premier userDB interface builder for Motif.  With a WYSIWYG environment, Xcessory1 accelerates software development.  Alpha Support.,       ISEn Contact:  jgoetz@I-S_E.com  
 www.i-s-e.como       Solution Description:   G ISE provides two software solutions for OpenVMS:  EnterpriseSCHEDULE, aVI batch job scheduling solution, and EnterpriseBACKUP that provides backup,0H recover and a library system.  Both solutions are centric on OpenVMS andI provide the ability to reach out to UNIX and NT platforms.  VAX and Alphai support.       L-Soft international, Inc.   Contact:  mjackson@lsoft.com  
 www.lsoft.com0       Solution Description:o  J L-Soft offers a comprehensive portfolio of e-mail list and e-mail deliveryJ solutions for the management of electronic newsletters, discussion groups,) and personalized direct e-mail campaigns.        MindIQ Contact:  nina.buik@mindidq.comm   www.mindiq.com       Solution Description:   B MindIQ, a Compaq Authorized Independent Training Partner, deliversK instructor-led training for Compaq OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX.  MindIQ offers apL comprehensive schedule of training classes.  Our open enrollment classes areJ conveniently offered in six cities across the U.S.  Our dedicated, on-site> classes are tailored to meet your exact training requirements.       Nemonixj+ Contact:  Daniel Bumbarger - Nemonix@WN.Net       L Nemonix Engineering offers high performance I/O devices for VAX systems.  WeG offer customized engineering and customized solutions for your hardware  needs.       Networking Dynamics Corporationl  * Contact:  marketing@networkingdynamics.com   www.networkingdynamics.com       Solution Description:   J PEEK & SPY is a  remote software for OpenVMS.  MultiSessions runs multipleJ sessions on a single terminal or terminal emulation.  CompuFAX sends faxes@ from VTs or PCs using an OpenVMS system.  VAX and Alpha support.       Parsec Contact:  Amend@parsec.com   www.parsec.com       Solution Description:   H PARSEC Group is a COMPAQ Authorized Independent Training Partner (AITP).L Since 1986 we have provided on-site and open enrollment classes for OpenVMS.L All instructors are senior level consultants with 12+ year's experience withH OpenVMS.  We recently announced a partnership with PointSecure that will= help extend broader security solutions for OpenVMS customers.S       PointSecure, Inc.y  & Contact:  mike.umansky@pointsecure.com   www.pointsecure.comc       Solution Description:   G The changing global marketplace puts your mission critical data at risk-B PointSecure provides security and compliance tools for monitoring,A pinpointing and securing OpenVMS Systems.  VAX and Alpha support.-       Process Software6 Contact:  Schreiber@process.com and Bryant@process.com   www.process.comc       Solution Description:l  H Process Software offers TCPware and MultiNet TCO/IP for OpenVMS softwareK with advanced functionality and security, PMDF Internet Messaging solutionslK for OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX and Solaris, and IDDS directory server for OpenVMS.< VAX and Alpha support.      & Software Resources International, S.A.  % Contact:  Robert.Boers@softresint.com    www.softresint.com       Solution Description:i  L CHARON-VAX is software emulating a complete MicroVAX.  This virtual MicroVAXH executes existing code like VAX/VMS, NetBSD, VAXElan and applications on= modern systems from original binaries.  Alpha and PC Support.o      # Storage Solutions Specialists, Inc.t   Contact:  lipp@storsol.com   www.storsol.comN       Solution Description:n  J Archive Backup Client for OpenVMS allows any OpenVMS system to participateK in a Tivoli Storage Management (TSM, aka ADSM) backup environment.  VAX andh Alpha support.       TECSys Development, Inc.   Contact:  b_Johnson@tditx.comn   www.consoleworks.com       Solution Description:   J ConsoleWorks is a WEB based console management solution being bundled withI the GS Series.  It is a plug-and-play upgrade for PCM console management.r VAX and Alpha support.       TogetherSoft Corporation& Contact:  mwegerbauer@togethersoft.com   www.togethersoft.com       Solution Description:p  E TogetherSoft offers a comprehensive development platform for building I enterprise solutions.  Its building blocks technology supports end-to-endp> development, integrating the design, deployment, debugging and? administration of complex applications.  VAX and Alpha support.5       U.S. Design Corporationn Contact:  garonzik@usdesign.comz   www.usdesign.com       Solution Description:g  H U.S. Design provides the following storage medium for OpenVMS platforms:I CD-R, DVD-RAM, and 5.25 MO & Worm - each of which supports Standalone and. Jukebox.   VAX and Alpha support.       Virinity, Inc.  4 Contact:  tabor@virinity.com and terryt@virinity.com   www.virinity.com       Solution Description:c  K Virinity provides an enhanced Apache Servier utilizing DCE and SSL, B2B/B2CwK e-commerce engines, credit card authorization software, personal web clientG0 and a software developer's kit.   Alpha support.       Vista Control Systems, Inc.g  ! Contact:  coult@vista-control.comb   www.vista-control.com        Solution Description:e  F Vsystem is a collection of comprehensive, real-time, networked processK control software tools known for speed, scalability, openness, flexibility,u> and value.  We service industries including Energy, Utilities,7 Manufacturing, Transportation, Government and Research.e      
 VX Company  " Contact:  bgrevelink@vxcompany.com   www.vxcompany.comc   Solution Description:7  L VX Company is a system integrator specializing in OpenVMS related EnterpriseG Application Integration and Application Management offering consultancyf throughout Europe.   Xoology " Contact:  will.sheward@xoology.com   www.xoology.como   Solution Description:   J Xoology's 'Conerto' Java application server simplifies and accelerates theI development and deployment of scaleable e-business applications, enablingoH OpenVMS user to effectively leverage the value of existing applications. Alpha support.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:54:30 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applications L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011054300001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <kenX6.1524$fi2.47447@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski"s# <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:i   > Dear Newsgroup,  > L > I hear from many of you that you are looking for applications on VMS, I amF > going to try an post a number of notes or pointers for different VMS7 > applications, if you know of any please post as well.p    $ Wow, you've got your work cut out...  B Bob Blatz at the recent diamond forum there are more than 5000 VMSG applications available today, and around 3000 ISVs.  You better get hise list as a starting point!o   It will be an interesting read.n   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:30:08 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>I! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsu& Message-ID: <3B2E1E80.1DCDD9D@fsi.net>   Robert Deininger wrote:c > E > In article <kenX6.1524$fi2.47447@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski":% > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:o >  > > Dear Newsgroup,m > >jN > > I hear from many of you that you are looking for applications on VMS, I amH > > going to try an post a number of notes or pointers for different VMS9 > > applications, if you know of any please post as well.a > & > Wow, you've got your work cut out... > D > Bob Blatz at the recent diamond forum there are more than 5000 VMSI > applications available today, and around 3000 ISVs.  You better get hisc > list as a starting point!n   5K apps??? 3K ISVs???   D From my experience and based on the current condition of the ChicagoC OVMS job market (dead), and based on Sue's reply to her own post, I-? think you'd be hard pressed to find 10% of those numbers! I canxE guarantee that none of them are in the Chicago metro. area or if theyu) are that they're not doing business here!c  E If you can find 3000 *LIVE* OVMS ISVs (let alone that many products),@G you should go present yourself to Rich Marcello and/or Mike Capellas as G the new V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing. Anyone who can penetrate *THAT* mucheG stealth marketing and turn up that many products/vendors deserves to beo recognized!t   -- r David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems6 http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:05:18 -0400m2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: OpenVMS ApplicationsiL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011205180001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  : In article <3B2E1E80.1DCDD9D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:* > > G > > In article <kenX6.1524$fi2.47447@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" ' > > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:* > >  > > > Dear Newsgroup,* > > >*P > > > I hear from many of you that you are looking for applications on VMS, I amJ > > > going to try an post a number of notes or pointers for different VMS; > > > applications, if you know of any please post as well.  > > ( > > Wow, you've got your work cut out... > > F > > Bob Blatz at the recent diamond forum there are more than 5000 VMSK > > applications available today, and around 3000 ISVs.  You better get hiss > > list as a starting point!s >  > 5K apps??? 3K ISVs???- > F > From my experience and based on the current condition of the ChicagoE > OVMS job market (dead), and based on Sue's reply to her own post, IeA > think you'd be hard pressed to find 10% of those numbers! I canpG > guarantee that none of them are in the Chicago metro. area or if theye+ > are that they're not doing business here!t > G > If you can find 3000 *LIVE* OVMS ISVs (let alone that many products),iI > you should go present yourself to Rich Marcello and/or Mike Capellas asoI > the new V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing. Anyone who can penetrate *THAT* muchnI > stealth marketing and turn up that many products/vendors deserves to bed
 > recognized!t  B The numbers surprised me as well when I wrote them down during the- presentation.  I don't vouch for them at all.n  H If you can find a link to the presentations from the AlphaServer DiamondD Forum in NYC on 22-May-2001, look for the presentation by Bob Blatz,E Director, OpenVMS intrated Solutions.  I believe the slide said "2486rF ISVs", and he mumbled something about the slide being out of date, theI current number was closer to 3000.  That's the way I read my scribbling. c; It was pretty clear to me he said the number has increased.n  H I won't offer to help you find the presentations.  I know that they willE be in powerpoint format, which is useless to me.  So I've not spent at nanosecond looking for them.   -- v Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 15:37:33 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)r! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applications 0 Message-ID: <9gl77t$nsu$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  h In article <kenX6.1524$fi2.47447@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:K >I hear from many of you that you are looking for applications on VMS, I amlE >going to try an post a number of notes or pointers for different VMS 6 >applications, if you know of any please post as well.  9 See "http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html".p   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanne  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:10:08 -0300,) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bru! Subject: Re: OpenVMS ApplicationsiL Message-ID: <OFAFF7B504.725BE683-ON03256A6F.0058C9BC@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  & When the OpenVMS Census will begin ???   FC        C rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) em 18/06/2001 13:05:18e  > Favor responder a rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como      ! Assunto: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsr    : In article <3B2E1E80.1DCDD9D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:o > > G > > In article <kenX6.1524$fi2.47447@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski".' > > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:o > >n > > > Dear Newsgroup,S > > >oK > > > I hear from many of you that you are looking for applications on VMS,n I amJ > > > going to try an post a number of notes or pointers for different VMS; > > > applications, if you know of any please post as well.h > >l( > > Wow, you've got your work cut out... > >oF > > Bob Blatz at the recent diamond forum there are more than 5000 VMSK > > applications available today, and around 3000 ISVs.  You better get hiss > > list as a starting point!f >t > 5K apps??? 3K ISVs???n >bF > From my experience and based on the current condition of the ChicagoE > OVMS job market (dead), and based on Sue's reply to her own post, InA > think you'd be hard pressed to find 10% of those numbers! I cannG > guarantee that none of them are in the Chicago metro. area or if they,+ > are that they're not doing business here!i >,G > If you can find 3000 *LIVE* OVMS ISVs (let alone that many products),oI > you should go present yourself to Rich Marcello and/or Mike Capellas asoI > the new V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing. Anyone who can penetrate *THAT* muchsI > stealth marketing and turn up that many products/vendors deserves to ber
 > recognized!   B The numbers surprised me as well when I wrote them down during the- presentation.  I don't vouch for them at all.r  H If you can find a link to the presentations from the AlphaServer DiamondD Forum in NYC on 22-May-2001, look for the presentation by Bob Blatz,E Director, OpenVMS intrated Solutions.  I believe the slide said "2486lF ISVs", and he mumbled something about the slide being out of date, theH current number was closer to 3000.  That's the way I read my scribbling.; It was pretty clear to me he said the number has increased.m  H I won't offer to help you find the presentations.  I know that they willE be in powerpoint format, which is useless to me.  So I've not spent ae nanosecond looking for them.   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:09:28 -0300e) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applications L Message-ID: <OF9A12664C.40F343E4-ON03256A6F.0058B41F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  + Any news about Oracle 9i under OpenVMS ????   8 http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001061401.html     FC        C rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) em 18/06/2001 13:05:18s  > Favor responder a rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms      ! Assunto: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsi    : In article <3B2E1E80.1DCDD9D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:i > >0G > > In article <kenX6.1524$fi2.47447@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski"n' > > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:I > >n > > > Dear Newsgroup,f > > >lK > > > I hear from many of you that you are looking for applications on VMS,f I amJ > > > going to try an post a number of notes or pointers for different VMS; > > > applications, if you know of any please post as well.A > > ( > > Wow, you've got your work cut out... > >iF > > Bob Blatz at the recent diamond forum there are more than 5000 VMSK > > applications available today, and around 3000 ISVs.  You better get hisn > > list as a starting point!h >W > 5K apps??? 3K ISVs???o > F > From my experience and based on the current condition of the ChicagoE > OVMS job market (dead), and based on Sue's reply to her own post, ISA > think you'd be hard pressed to find 10% of those numbers! I can G > guarantee that none of them are in the Chicago metro. area or if theyk+ > are that they're not doing business here!u >nG > If you can find 3000 *LIVE* OVMS ISVs (let alone that many products),dI > you should go present yourself to Rich Marcello and/or Mike Capellas as I > the new V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing. Anyone who can penetrate *THAT* muchnI > stealth marketing and turn up that many products/vendors deserves to bei
 > recognized!   B The numbers surprised me as well when I wrote them down during the- presentation.  I don't vouch for them at all.i  H If you can find a link to the presentations from the AlphaServer DiamondD Forum in NYC on 22-May-2001, look for the presentation by Bob Blatz,E Director, OpenVMS intrated Solutions.  I believe the slide said "2486 F ISVs", and he mumbled something about the slide being out of date, theH current number was closer to 3000.  That's the way I read my scribbling.; It was pretty clear to me he said the number has increased.x  H I won't offer to help you find the presentations.  I know that they willE be in powerpoint format, which is useless to me.  So I've not spent ai nanosecond looking for them.   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:57:23 -0400:2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: OpenVMS ApplicationspL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011257230001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleA <OFAFF7B504.725BE683-ON03256A6F.0058C9BC@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,s* fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  ( > When the OpenVMS Census will begin ??? >   H How would you propose to measure the OpenVMS population with any sort ofH accuracy, without spending a fortune?  The question is the same for most any other product census.    -- n Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:55:55 -0700  From: James.F.Duff@health.nets! Subject: Re: OpenVMS ApplicationspD Message-ID: <OF6016981B.833807CF-ON88256A6F.005B9C49@foundation.com>  " susan.skonetski@compaq.com writes: >Dear Newsgroup, > G >Here is a list of some of our partners I will add more as I find them.  >k >Sue >u >Advanced Systems Concepts >Contact:  jrizzolo@syscon.com >c >www.advsyscon.com >[the rest snipped],  < Wonderful as this list may be, it comes nowhere near the old> DEC "VAX/VMS Solutions Source Book" or whatever it was called.; That thing had ~1000 pages of software and solutions listedr for VAX/VMS.  < I wonder if this list is even maintained any more?  It would< be a great starting point for Compaq to go and convince some> of those companies to port to Alpha (if they haven't already).7 It would also be an excellent convincer for the ongoingr< validity of OpenVMS as a solution when waved under the PHB's nose :-)     Jims -- James.F.Duff@health.netm Pure personal opinionp   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:06:06 -0400a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: OpenVMS ApplicationsoL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011306060001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleA <OF9A12664C.40F343E4-ON03256A6F.0058B41F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  - > Any news about Oracle 9i under OpenVMS ????r > : > http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001061401.html   Why are you asking me?  I The above URL is a product announcement.  If you are interested in OraclenG on VMS, I think you can find it mentioned in some roadmaps from Compaq.   H I reported a bit on this after the NYC Diamond forum last month.  OracleH promises to ship the new version on VMS within 90 days from the shipmentH on Unix.  I guess the clock has started.  The Oracle rep said he expectsA it will be more like 60 days for this release.  This has been theeI announced plan for quite a while.  If folks are looking for news to whinei" about, this isn't NEWS, it's old.   B Some of the join initiatives in this Tru64/Oracle announcement areF supposed to be in the works for VMS/Oracle as well.  I didn't get many details, since I don't Oracle.  E See if you can find Kevin McCoole's presentation from the 22-May-2001 E AlphaServer Diamond Forum in New York City.  Though be warned -- as IaJ posted after the forum, his was the worst, least VMS-friendly presentationJ of the day.  I suspect the problem was the messenger; he did not appear to be very aware of VMS.c   -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:24:12 -0400 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsz3 Message-ID: <VOqX6.1541$fi2.48465@news.cpqcorp.net>d  L Just so you know, I am aware of the 5000 number, I just want to make sure we do not miss anyone..   sue   ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageaF news:rdeininger-1806011205180001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com...< > In article <3B2E1E80.1DCDD9D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > > Robert Deininger wrote:  > > >tI > > > In article <kenX6.1524$fi2.47447@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski"c) > > > <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:n > > >  > > > > Dear Newsgroup,  > > > >aH > > > > I hear from many of you that you are looking for applications on	 VMS, I ameL > > > > going to try an post a number of notes or pointers for different VMS= > > > > applications, if you know of any please post as well.o > > >o* > > > Wow, you've got your work cut out... > > >pH > > > Bob Blatz at the recent diamond forum there are more than 5000 VMSI > > > applications available today, and around 3000 ISVs.  You better getl hise > > > list as a starting point!a > >. > > 5K apps??? 3K ISVs???- > >-H > > From my experience and based on the current condition of the ChicagoG > > OVMS job market (dead), and based on Sue's reply to her own post, I C > > think you'd be hard pressed to find 10% of those numbers! I cannI > > guarantee that none of them are in the Chicago metro. area or if theyi- > > are that they're not doing business here!e > >wI > > If you can find 3000 *LIVE* OVMS ISVs (let alone that many products),nK > > you should go present yourself to Rich Marcello and/or Mike Capellas aseK > > the new V.P. of OpenVMS Marketing. Anyone who can penetrate *THAT* muchyK > > stealth marketing and turn up that many products/vendors deserves to be  > > recognized!0 >SD > The numbers surprised me as well when I wrote them down during the/ > presentation.  I don't vouch for them at all.  >eJ > If you can find a link to the presentations from the AlphaServer DiamondF > Forum in NYC on 22-May-2001, look for the presentation by Bob Blatz,G > Director, OpenVMS intrated Solutions.  I believe the slide said "2486pH > ISVs", and he mumbled something about the slide being out of date, theJ > current number was closer to 3000.  That's the way I read my scribbling.= > It was pretty clear to me he said the number has increased.g >pJ > I won't offer to help you find the presentations.  I know that they willG > be in powerpoint format, which is useless to me.  So I've not spent ad > nanosecond looking for them. >y > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:36:54 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsb) Message-ID: <3B2E03F6.17355FC2@bbc.co.uk>n   Sue Skonetski wrote:  N > Just so you know, I am aware of the 5000 number, I just want to make sure we > do not miss anyone.a >   B  Possibly the numbers represent participants in the CSA programme?K In which case, the products may still be in devvelopment not on the market?o  C I don't really know what David Dachetera is trying to prove, except J that he is sadly jobless at present, something that I will be dealing with next month.s   regardsf   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukr  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of6 MedAS or the BBC..   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:35:47 +0100w  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com@ Subject: Re: openVMS concurrent user licences (v7.2 on MicroVAX)H Message-ID: <OF07E7506D.68ED1B30-ON80256A6F.0039DA83@qedi.quintiles.com>  C Erm, is that true Hans?  Last I saw the BASE-VMS-250136 license wasoF intended for client-server type work and Patchworks.  It had unlimitedI network connection capabilities but one interactive user.  This caught me J when I was trying to relicense a VAX 7000-850 that I was responsible for aF couple of years back.  The first user in was fine but then nobody elseG could get in because the new license that had been issued to us was notr' recognised by the VMS 6.1 installation.  Steve.   Hans Vlems wrote/quoted :n >>>pG Your system has two VMS licenses loaded: a type A license, which allows 
 unlimited useNH as well as a type C license for 12 users. But the type C license in this case is useless,= assuming that the type A license is valid/legal for the 3185.e   Hans  . Jon Pickup <jpickup@bocs.com> wrote in message9 news:EQ1W6.20568$jd1.1064127@monolith.news.easynet.net...rG > Can anyone help me out with how to establish how many concurrent usero > licences I have on my system?s >a > SHOW LIC /CHARGE shows...  >s+ > VMS/LMF Charge Information for node BELF1g5 > This is a MicroVAX 3100-85, hardware model type 490xG > Type: A, Units Required: 60 (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited orr Base)a1 > Type: B, * Not Permitted * (VAX/VMS F&A Server)  >nC >    ---->   Type: C, Units Required: 100 (VAX/VMS Concurrent User)n > 2 > Type: D, * Not Permitted * (VAX/VMS Workstation)C > Type: E, Units Required: 230 (VAX/VMS System Integrated Products)c4 > Type: F, Units Required: 20 (VAX Layered Products)' > Type: G, * Not Permitted * (Reserved)f5 > Type: H, * Not Permitted * (Alpha Layered Products).0 > Type: I, Units Required: 20 (Layered Products) >A > ...and SHOW LIC shows....  >   > Active licenses on node BELF1:= > ------- Product ID -------- ---- Rating ----- -- Version -- @ > Product Producer Units Avail Activ Version Release Termination. > BASE-VMS-250136 DEC 60 0 A 0.0 (none) (none)/ > NET-APP-SUP-200 DEC 200 F 0 0.0 (none) (none) 0 > PWLMDOSCC05.01 DEC 100 0 100 0.0 (none) (none)0 > PWNWXXXFP05.00 DEC 100 0 100 0.0 (none) (none) >o4 >   ---->  VMS-USER DEC 1200 0 100 0.0 (none) (none) >eK > Compaq reckoned that I divide the 1200 by the 100 to get 12, then add one H > for the base user, to get 13 as an upper limit. But then they couldn'tJ > explain how come we seemed to be routinely exceeding 13. Which leaves me > nowhere again... <<<t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:00:31 +0200p* From: Ferry Bolhar <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>@ Subject: Re: openVMS concurrent user licences (v7.2 on MicroVAX)7 Message-ID: <992872830.404866@mozart.adv.magwien.gv.at>a   Ferry Bolhar wrote:( >  > Jon Pickup schrieb:c > >:I > > Can anyone help me out with how to establish how many concurrent user ! > > licences I have on my system?w   [snip]  M > > Compaq reckoned that I divide the 1200 by the 100 to get 12, then add oneyJ > > for the base user, to get 13 as an upper limit. But then they couldn'tL > > explain how come we seemed to be routinely exceeding 13. Which leaves me > > nowhere again...   Yes, this seems to be ok.u  o > The key here is: > . > BASE-VMS-250136 DEC 60 0 A 0.0 (none) (none) > I > This is an unlimited VMS Capacity license. It provides unlimited accessaJ > to the system. You could remove the VMS-USER license at your users still > could login.   No, they couldn't.   J > The Compaq interpretation of this base license is incorrect - as you canI > see on your own system with SHOW LICENSE/USAGE *VMS* - it will tell you 6 > how the system makes use of the loaded VMS licenses.  G Sorry to all and my kindest apologies to Compaq people, but I was wrong G here. The Compaq computation IS correct. The BASE-VMS-250136 license issF a type A license, but it is an ACTIVITY-based license, meaning that itC can be loaded on any VAX processor but allows only a single user toSF logon (Number of units divided by value given in ACTIVITY=CONSTANT=<n>1 field of the PAK, therefore 60/60 yields 1 user).e  C I've never seen a license like this one (with typ A and an ACTIVITYM@ entry instead of an AVAILABILITY) but seems there are still such	 licenses.E  H I tried to reproduce your problem with licenses similar to yours, and onH my system (VMS V7.2 on a MicroVAX 3100-90, but the charge values are theF sames as on your system), this will happen after loading the licenses:  B The first user is granted to logon by the BASE-VMS-250136 license.C The next 12 users can logon using the VMS-USER license. Thereafter,oH login attempts are rejected with "Attempted usage exceeds active license limits".  E In other words, with these two licenses, all will happen as expected.r  G To find out the usage of your licenses, type SHOW LICENSE/USAGE when 13e (and more) people is logged on.a  E Maybe you have additional licenses loaded which grant further logins?    Greetings, Ferry   -- a Ing. Ferry Bolhar-Nordenkampfm Municipality of Vienna Municipality Department 14
 A-1010 ViennaV E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at   : "Wenn hier einer schuld ist, dann immer nur der Computer."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:11:43 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>t( Subject: Re: OpenVMS v7.3 and TCPIP V5.1$ Message-ID: <3b2e2874$1@news.si.com>  K >It could be argued, of course, that CONTROL-M should use some other methodM of verifying the existenceF >of an IP stack (parsing the output of "TCPIP(UCX) SHO VERSION" is one$ method that comes to mind), but they >don't.n  I This, too, is problematic.  I have two different IP stacks on my cluster. H Executing the TCPIP (UCX) SHOW VERSION command would succeed even on the systems not running that stack.h --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com0A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventu< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 06:40:43 -07000 From: keith.cayemberg@conti.de (Keith Cayemberg); Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux = Message-ID: <3a65a5c8.0106180540.1a6d2d68@posting.google.com>e  M Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3B2D3226.5304B793@home.nl>...- > "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > > JF - > >0C > > >>>> Of course, if Oracle9i isn't available on VMS... well...<<S > >i2 > > Check out: (Oracle 9i, Oracle Apps db support)C > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/openvms_sod.htmlOL > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/LEtter_of_commitment.html > L > The second link does raise a question: Why should we use VMS with a OracleO > backend database if the frontend application is on Tru64 ?? (or another OS ?)o  > What would be the advantage ??  G In the End - only you and your colleages can answer that question. But,iH please establish your needed level of resource management, security and M sophistication, and inform yourself of the probably huge differences in theseiB qualities offered by the different platforms you are considering.     Q > The database is not the most critical part, the application is. The frontend isVP > the line of attack for hackers etc. And I still don't know what we can do withO > Oracle and VMS in the future. Even our Oracle support group can't figure this,R > out. Oracle developer 2000 is an almost retired product, and Oracle applicationsK > will disappear.  Running just the database on VMS is a bit pointless, the L > applications are much more important. And it is much cheaper to support anL > environment with one operating system than an environment with two or more > operating systems.  E Do you have only one application/interface to your database? If your  C database is not as critical as your application, how useful is yourtJ application if the the database is corrupt or unavailable? In my 2 decadesN of experience with mission-critical databases in several companies, especiallyG MC Databases usually tend have a multitude of applications, departmentslK and even other databases linking to them around the clock. A major customeraJ of ours (NOT Firestone) uses OpenVMS and Oracle Rdb to manufacture tires. D They have c.a. 150 VMS Systems with c.a. 50 Rdb Databases for stock F management, production planning, manufacture, quality control. Each ofF these databases serve data to at least a dozen other systems (also to B external financial systems) or each other. A dataflow chart of the: Databases and Applications looks like a spider web. If oneD Database were to go down, it has nearly an immediate knock-on effectC to the next systems. We have greatly benefitted from the ultra-high0> security and availability of OpenVMS and Rdb, and I know of atI least one other competing tire manufacture (much bigger) which chose the eJ OpenVMS/Rdb dream team as well. If these systems had the planned/unplannedK availability of an eBay, the tire company would probably loose enough moneytL in one year to pay for all the DP systems in a factory. This hasn't happenedN in spite of the SNAFU characteristics of many client applications implemented K on the Windows platform. An well designed OS/DB Backend Security and Backup2G Implementation should survive even intentionally destructive clients or2I even terrorists and disasters (real-world instances of VMS/rdb doing justt* this have already been alluded to in COV).  G For us, it would be cheaper to have just one platform, ONLY if that onep% platform was OpenVMS with Oracle Rdb.h  @ By the way, why use the the best mission-critical OS and not theK best mission-critical DB for your sacred data as well. Oracle Rdb continues-M to lead the way in mission-critical DB design, showing Oracle Classic and OPSaL how Extreme MC VLDB should be done, just as VMS continues to show Tru64 how 7 management, resource-sharing-scheduling, security, and a, COMPLETEly-Shared clustering should be done.  G Based on just the RAC model presented by Oracle, I don't have any worryhC that it provides any viable alternative to OpenVMS/Rdb in our case.yF Pushing a clustered DB lock-management up to the application level of K disparate systems (not offering these mechanisms natively) is not going to  8 give the other operating systems fully-shared clustering@ or improve the OS/application stability or availability. InsteadF it tends to lead to what happens to trees when you build too much intoE the higher branches, it tends to make the whole thing more top-heavy,lE complex, and brittle, and the branches (or even the whole tree) more  E likely to break off. Such basic qualities as security and reliabilitye9 must be built by design (or long-term evolution) from theu: base up. Computer Science and Software Engineering as wellI still have a great deal to learn from nature, just as applied engineeringr also continues to do.R   Keith Cayembergi Senior Consultantr ICA - Hannover, Germany1     Semi-Nonstandard Disclaimer:5   Any non-official claims concerning my semi-official4,   opinions are hereby officially disclaimed.2   (and no I didn't steal this one from Yogi Berra)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:52:26 -04000+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> ; Subject: RE: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and LinuxnR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF49A2976@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Dirk,t  H >>> Why should we use VMS with a Oracle backend database if the frontendH application is on Tru64 ?? (or another OS ?) What would be the advantage ??<<  L Availability for one if you are using Oracle OPS. Also, if using Oracle Rdb,$ it is cluster ready out of the box.   B Ask your DBA's how they would implement Oracle OPS in a multi-siteJ environment ie. all systems requires active-active access to the same data@ drives. You can shutdown servers at either site transparently to6 applications without any mid-tier application changes.  L While multi-site may not be an issues for you right now, if you are planningJ any type of major server consolidation projects (very common right now) orK planning any type of eBusiness environment where the data needs to be up to A date on all servers at all times, then the increased availability 3 requirement will become much more important to you.   J [Of course, replication is always an option if the risks are an acceptable cost tradeoff]   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services: Voice: 613-592-4660z Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----% From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]a Sent: June 17, 2001 6:42 PMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn; Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linuxn         "Main, Kerry" wrote:   > JF - >mA > >>>> Of course, if Oracle9i isn't available on VMS... well...<<. >c0 > Check out: (Oracle 9i, Oracle Apps db support)A > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/openvms_sod.html4J > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/LEtter_of_commitment.html  J The second link does raise a question: Why should we use VMS with a OracleJ backend database if the frontend application is on Tru64 ?? (or another OS ?) What would be the advantage ??  L The database is not the most critical part, the application is. The frontend isI the line of attack for hackers etc. And I still don't know what we can doo withH Oracle and VMS in the future. Even our Oracle support group can't figure thisC out. Oracle developer 2000 is an almost retired product, and Oraclei applicationsI will disappear.  Running just the database on VMS is a bit pointless, theaJ applications are much more important. And it is much cheaper to support anJ environment with one operating system than an environment with two or more operating systems.           >  >aL > re: clustering terms... Personally, I might say "the best UNIX clustering"L > vs "the best NT clustering" vs the "best clustering" for OpenVMS, but thatI > would likely start another long series of threads..so I won't say it ..s >  > :-)f > 
 > Regards, >n > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > Compaq Canada Inc. > Professional Servicesr > Voice: 613-592-4660t > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >r > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] > Sent: June 15, 2001 1:22 PMn > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma= > Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linuxe >p > Alan Greig wrote:oB > > increase," said Mike Winkler, executive vice president, GlobalC > > Business Units, Compaq Computer Corporation. "The Oracle9i Real8H > > Application Clusters and Compaq's Tru64 UNIX offering truly reflects@ > > the strength of our industry lead in clustering technology." >rK > Since VMS clustering is still far ahead of True64's, whenever some Compaq K > employee wants to use the word "leadership" in the context of clustering,  he3 > should be forced to use "VMS" instead of "Tru64".  > : > Of course, if Oracle9i isn't available on VMS... well...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:10:11 +0400 D From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <junk-     laishev@mail.dls.net     -junk>7 Subject: Re: Oracle Multithreaded Server on VMS anyone?e? Message-ID: <6xjX6.45013$I6.678975@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>    No chance! It does not work.  > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message& news:JtFsfV8XI4kh@malvm5.mala.bc.ca... >nD > Is anyone using the Oracle 8i (8.1.7) Multithreaded Server on VMS? >l? > I've tried to set it up but can't get it to register with theh> > listener. The database starts the dispatchers ok ( I can see9 > them in a SHO SYS ), but the listener doesn't show them > > when I do a LSNRCTL SERVICES. Any attempt to connect creates< > a DEDICATED server - if I insist on a SHARED server in the: > connect string I get an error ( can't resolve service ). >a: > If anyone has this working I'd appreciate a copy of your; > LISTENER.ORA file and MTS* initialization settings to see-+ > if I can figure out what I'm doing wrong.: >4 >0L ============================================================================ =nD > Malcolm Dunnett      Malaspina University-College   Email: dunnettG >                                                      Host: mala.bc.caEJ > Information Systems  Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA V9R 5S5     Tel: (250)755-8738 >  >h   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 09:25:41 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)a7 Subject: Re: Oracle Multithreaded Server on VMS anyone?r, Message-ID: <igNulCZwNJ3k@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  @ In article <6xjX6.45013$I6.678975@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>, I    "Ruslan R. Laishev" <junk-     laishev@mail.dls.net     -junk> writes:V   > No chance! It does not work. >   B    I logged a TAR with Oracle and found out that it does work, but with some provisos:a  E    - You need to define the initialization parameter INSTANCE_NAME inlA your init.ora file ( using the instance name of course ). This ise@ documented in an article on Metalink, but I didn't see it in any  of the published manuals I read.  B    - You don't need a listener.ora with Oracle 8i. Having one withB dedicated services of the same name seems to confuse the listener.  B    - There are a couple of bugs in the 8.1.7 MTS that cause memory? leaks. Patches are available. I didn't install the patches as IeD felt a bit of a memory leak wasn't significant for testing purposes,2 I presume they'd be important for production work.  F    The good news is these changes got the MTS working. The bad news is? that queries are noticeably slower with MTS than with dedicatedyG servers and the connect time ( which is the problem I was really trying   to address ) isn't a lot faster.  8    I've decided to stick with dedicated servers for now.  D    In contrast, prespawned servers provided the same query executionC time as dedicated servers and the connect time was markedly faster.cA Unfortunately they are no longer supported and Oracle discouragest
 their use.  r@ > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message( > news:JtFsfV8XI4kh@malvm5.mala.bc.ca... >>E >> Is anyone using the Oracle 8i (8.1.7) Multithreaded Server on VMS?C >>@ >> I've tried to set it up but can't get it to register with the? >> listener. The database starts the dispatchers ok ( I can seeo: >> them in a SHO SYS ), but the listener doesn't show them? >> when I do a LSNRCTL SERVICES. Any attempt to connect createsa= >> a DEDICATED server - if I insist on a SHARED server in the ; >> connect string I get an error ( can't resolve service ).r >>; >> If anyone has this working I'd appreciate a copy of your1< >> LISTENER.ORA file and MTS* initialization settings to see, >> if I can figure out what I'm doing wrong. >> >>N > ============================================================================ > =rE >> Malcolm Dunnett      Malaspina University-College   Email: dunnett H >>                                                      Host: mala.bc.caK >> Information Systems  Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA V9R 5S5     Tel: (250)755-8738h >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:25:05 -0500n+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>d7 Subject: OT - Of course: The Daily David Hobbs Repost 2rL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F7E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----. > From: Anonymous [mailto:nobody@hyperreal.pl]  < > Hey, if you liked the Daily David Hobbs Repost 2 just wait9 > till you catch installment THREE coming this Monday to: 7 > comp.lang.java.programmer, comp.os.linux.advocacy andt > a host of others!!!e  J .. and if we didn't like it?  Because I'm relatively sure that I speak forJ 99% of _this_ group, at least, when I say that I have no wish to hear yourG opinion of a person I don't know.  I especially don't want to hear that I opinion repeated several times by the same person.  At this point, I havee< infinitely more respect for this Hobbs fellow than yourself.  F Personally, I'd rather not automatically can your posts, but I'll haveB little choice in the matter should you continue on this course.  II participate in this group via the info-vax gateway, and it wastes my timenF when some otherwise inactive, as-far-as-I-know technically incompetentL imbecile decides he must blatantly misuse the comp.os.vms facilities for hisH own selfish reasons, which happen to be completely detrimental to normal
 discourse.  I That said, I will suggest that you acquire a life, and spend your time oneI something more constructive than pissing off hundreds (conservatively) ofeL newsgroup participants.  I will also thank you for _at least_ warning peopleL that there is more to come so they can take measures to get you out of their hair ahead of time.  Thank you.i  I If you're ever in need of operating system advice, don't hesitate to stopdL by.  Some of the people here are likely too nice (or apathetic?) to killfile you anyway.p   (A note to the regulars:  L First off, I apologize for this.  Secondly, I don't mind normal conversationI that digresses to become off-topic, or the occasional off-topic post, buti this is clearly spam.)   Regards,   Chrisl  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerr Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");: '4   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:34:43 +0200j From: mauf@uhu.unizar.es Subject: OT: I'm just a "pup"!* Message-ID: <01061818344349@uhu.unizar.es>   tillman_brian wrote:  M >I learned programming in machine code (binary 1s and 0s) and Fortran II D ong an IBM 1620 in 1968.<C  M I learned (a little bit) on one of them, back in 1975. The model number stoodoK for 20K ferrite memory, of which 16K were occupied by the FORTRAN compiler.   M We, students, used the WITRAN compiler, which taked less room. I remember thenI astounding peripherals (card reader, card sorter and typing machine, this L last one scheduled for 10 char/s, but rarely ataining half of that, and all- ways with a born out ribbon).   J But somehow, programming was much more efficient those days, since the IBMM 1620 was *the* Computing Centre of the University, and carried out all tasks:-F inscriptions, payroll, research and education (and some simple games).   Regardsb   M.A.Uson   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:00:38 +0100i  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>B Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:DEC vs IBM, story of Moses+ Message-ID: <VA.000003d1.00379f07@sture.ch>.  J In article <b6nritk29bbunaq976frnas54f5jvhpg1h@4ax.com>, Alan Greig wrote: > E > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:59:46 +0010, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aua > wrote: >  > >)? > >>Technically the Queen's English until Liz pops her clogs :)h< > >                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >cR > >And that, dear Mr Greig, looks neither like the King's or Queen's English that C > >I learnt (both) -- some Scottish/Netherlands dialect/idiom? :-))u > B > I think "to pop ones clogs" is a fairly common expression at theH > moment. Certainly if you go to www.northernlight.com and type "pop herF > clogs" or "pop his clogs" you get a number of hits. Not sure if they5 > are all UK. Here;'s an example from one of the hitse >  [snip]  . >  http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-pop2.htm >  >  >  POP ONE'S CLOGS h > E > From James Morrison: "Where does the phrase to pop one's clogs comei' > from? And why does it mean to die!?"   > F > It is mainly a British English slang expression, dating, so far as ID > can gather from the few slang and idiom dictionaries that cite it,E > only from the 1970s. The impression is that it seems to have eitherdD > originated in - or been popularised by - television presenters and > disc jockeys. G > Clogs were the traditional workers' footwear in several trades in the C > industrial towns and cities of midlands and northern Britain, forrF > women as well as men, now rarely seen but at one time almost an iconG > of working class life. The sound of workers' clogs on cobbled streetse5 > at the end of a shift has been likened to thunder. t > H > The verb to pop may be the old term for pawning goods. The implicationB > is that someone would only want to pawn his clogs when he had noD > further need for them, that is, when he was about to die. But it's< > also possible that it's linked to the idiom to pop off (anB > abbreviation of pop off the hooks), which can also mean to die.  > C > On the basis of citation evidence, it looks like a pseudo-archaiceD > form, unrecorded from times when workers did usually wear clogs toF > work and did often pawn small items each week to tide them over cashB > shortages. But I have had one subscriber tell me that he clearlyH > remembers it being used in Lincolnshire 50 years ago, so it may be yetC > another example of a folk expression that existed for generations.# > without being recorded in print. u > G I distinctly remember the phrase from my childhood in Yorkshire, almosteJ certainly back into the 1960s or beyond. There are many other phrases fromG Northern England which don't seem to be well documented, except perhaps  in the odd humourous book.  K Hmm, thinking of Monty Python's Parrot sketch with its euphemisms for deatheI now. IIRC it was a BBC Leeds (Yorkshire) production and certainly many ofcK the outdoor scenes were filmed around there. I'm pretty sure that the MontyAJ Python team would have been aware of the term "pop one's clogs" (certainlyF so after the Parrot Sketch), which may explain the media references of
 the 1970s.   [snip] ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:48:56 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>nF Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses8 Message-ID: <qufrit0ihk909s7cg2mk26a3ljvj52qojj@4ax.com>  @ On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 13:13:19 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:s    M >teenager.  In 25 days she's off on a three week tour of Europe as part of a MM >student ambassador program.  I can only hope that whilst spending 10 days int1 >the UK, a bit of the King's English is absorbed.n  ; Technically the Queen's English until Liz pops her clogs :)h -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:59:46 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auuF Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses5 Message-ID: <01K4XAEZCP4I001NNM@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>e   Alan Greig wrote:sA >On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 13:13:19 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brianb  >Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote: >h >hN >>teenager.  In 25 days she's off on a three week tour of Europe as part of a N >>student ambassador program.  I can only hope that whilst spending 10 days in2 >>the UK, a bit of the King's English is absorbed. > < >Technically the Queen's English until Liz pops her clogs :)9                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^e  O And that, dear Mr Greig, looks neither like the King's or Queen's English that a@ I learnt (both) -- some Scottish/Netherlands dialect/idiom? :-))  L Brian, don't let your daughter come into contact with Alan, she won't learn ( anything from that kilted dutchman :-)    J I'm sure, and hope, she will love the experience of time in Europe and UK.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,-
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiam   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,a; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.O   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:08:40 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>?F Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses8 Message-ID: <b6nritk29bbunaq976frnas54f5jvhpg1h@4ax.com>  C On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:59:46 +0010, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aun wrote:   >t= >>Technically the Queen's English until Liz pops her clogs :) : >                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >oP >And that, dear Mr Greig, looks neither like the King's or Queen's English that A >I learnt (both) -- some Scottish/Netherlands dialect/idiom? :-))r  @ I think "to pop ones clogs" is a fairly common expression at theF moment. Certainly if you go to www.northernlight.com and type "pop herD clogs" or "pop his clogs" you get a number of hits. Not sure if they3 are all UK. Here;'s an example from one of the hitse  E "Secondlythis is important for Mr Russellthere is not uniformity inaC the way in which, should he pop his clogs, he would be replaced and E how I would be replaced should the same thing happen to me. Difficult6C though the task would be of filling Mr Russell's shoesif one could 
 get close"   That, believe it or not is from,K http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/official_report/session99-00/or010704.htms  C There are plenty of hits from England as well. Can't find a grammar C usage reference off hand though. Oops spoke to soon. Just found onec2 with a search for "pop ones clogs" (northernlight)  ,  http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-pop2.htm      POP ONE'S CLOGS t  C From James Morrison: "Where does the phrase to pop one's clogs come % from? And why does it mean to die!?" :  D It is mainly a British English slang expression, dating, so far as IB can gather from the few slang and idiom dictionaries that cite it,C only from the 1970s. The impression is that it seems to have eitheroB originated in - or been popularised by - television presenters and disc jockeys. E Clogs were the traditional workers' footwear in several trades in thepA industrial towns and cities of midlands and northern Britain, forsD women as well as men, now rarely seen but at one time almost an iconE of working class life. The sound of workers' clogs on cobbled streetsc3 at the end of a shift has been likened to thunder. n  F The verb to pop may be the old term for pawning goods. The implication@ is that someone would only want to pawn his clogs when he had noB further need for them, that is, when he was about to die. But it's: also possible that it's linked to the idiom to pop off (an@ abbreviation of pop off the hooks), which can also mean to die.   A On the basis of citation evidence, it looks like a pseudo-archaicCB form, unrecorded from times when workers did usually wear clogs toD work and did often pawn small items each week to tide them over cash@ shortages. But I have had one subscriber tell me that he clearlyF remembers it being used in Lincolnshire 50 years ago, so it may be yetA another example of a folk expression that existed for generations ! without being recorded in print. o  C  World Wide Words is copyright  Michael Quinion, 1996-. All rights 	 reserved.U Page created 11 November 2000. .  h       >iM >Brian, don't let your daughter come into contact with Alan, she won't learn s) >anything from that kilted dutchman :-)  c >tK >I'm sure, and hope, she will love the experience of time in Europe and UK., >e >Regards, Paddy  >  >Paddy O'Brien,  >Transmission Development, >TransGrid,o >PO Box A1000, Sydney South,   >NSW 2000, Australia >a >Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063c >Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050a' >Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au- >-N >Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,< >but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:19:22 -0400l; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>oF Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses$ Message-ID: <3b2e2a3f$1@news.si.com>  < >I feel very old, admitting my first programming was in MAD: > ' >  http://www.wwa.com/~rweiland/mad.htmt >  Michigan Algorithm Decoderr >h* >  http://www.wwa.com/~rweiland/madctf.htm >  MAD's Claims to Fame  >b? >on an IBM 7094, running an OS from the University of Michigan.S  L I learned programming in machine code (binary 1s and 0s) and Fortran II D on an IBM 1620 in 1968. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comn= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventh< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:46:30 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> F Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses$ Message-ID: <3b2e309b$1@news.si.com>  # >It's not a high level protocol but0I >at least it's not in some encrypted and coded protocol like that used myu ther
 >teenager.  G Does this protocol entail frequent insertions of the token "like"?  Thee7 protocol used by both my 24 yo and 18 yo sure seems to.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comVA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coma= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:04:19 -0700e0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>F Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses# Message-ID: <3B2E3493.306E@ups.edu>o  F I learned programming using a language called 99GATE, a crude Fortran.D This was on an IBM 709 computer at Washington State University. ThisF computer was all vacuum tubes and, believe it or not, this IBM 709 was serial number 1!   Bill   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 17:13:15 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)sF Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses' Message-ID: <9glcrb$8v4$1@joe.rice.edu>r  : Brian Tillman (tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com) wrote:> : >I feel very old, admitting my first programming was in MAD: : >o) : >  http://www.wwa.com/~rweiland/mad.htme : >  Michigan Algorithm Decodere : >v, : >  http://www.wwa.com/~rweiland/madctf.htm : >  MAD's Claims to Fame  : >rA : >on an IBM 7094, running an OS from the University of Michigan.e  K : I learned programming in machine code (binary 1s and 0s) and Fortran II Dl : on an IBM 1620 in 1968.e :i  D My "MADness" was at the University of Houston, 1965-1966. I hired onC with TRW Systems June, 1966, where I quickly learned FORTRAN IV fore5 the IBM 7094, and then FORTRAN V for the Univac 1108.e  J BTW, someone sent me a clippling last week that the Univac I was 50 years  old.  C General Electric is one company who contributed a lot to computing, F e.g., the GE 645 for Multics, but doesn't mention it even though they  acquired Honeywell:   N  http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9712/cshp0087.html   --Jerry Leslie     n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:50:47 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)=F Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses0 Message-ID: <009FDB86.242150E4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <3b2e309b$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:$ >>It's not a high level protocol butJ >>at least it's not in some encrypted and coded protocol like that used my >the >>teenager.t >cH >Does this protocol entail frequent insertions of the token "like"?  The8 >protocol used by both my 24 yo and 18 yo sure seems to.  H Precisely along with other such words inserted in the protocol every 3rdH or 4th word.  Thus, the S/N ratio is only slightly greater than 50%.  In7 addition, the protocol is always first person singular.n   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 14:46:03 GMT0 From: roland.haider@at.bosch.com (Roland Haider)@ Subject: Pathworks or AdvancedServer for Hobbyist? Alternatives?6 Message-ID: <9gl47b$7sc$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.com>   Hello,  < I finally started integrating my VMS Computers with the rest1 of my small home-network ( HP-UX, WinNT, Win311).cB Therefore the preferred way would be a SMB server e.g. Pathworks 6 or Advanced Server. ? Though I couldn't find a proper license on the list of layered  B products included in the hobbyist license, I gave it a try, hoping' it would be included in the OS license.   @ Installed AdvancedServer on the Alphastation, configured it as a* Primary Domain Controller and fired it up.  5 1st Test: Great! Clients authenticate to the server. y; Then connect to a share. Nee! Many popups saying "Unable ton obtain license for client."e   So therefore my first question:t  - Is this (as I presume) the expected behavior?e9 (Or did I make a fatal mistake somewhere along the line?)f  B Second: What are the pros and cons for the 2 alternatives (I know) Samba and NFS ?a   Any feedback welcome!s   Regards, Rolandt   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 10:44:56 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)e/ Subject: Re: Problem with JUMP from FREEWARE CDa3 Message-ID: <LouadpHeFk75@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  j In article <_0GW6.1516$fi2.45270@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Jonathan Ridler" <jonathan.ridler@compaq.com> writes:  8 Glad to have finally found you! Thanks for the response.  A > "Chris Sharman" <Chris.Sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> wrote in message-- > news:009FD780.E28C282F.20@ccagroup.co.uk...1 >> ...K >> >In fact, I just renamed the file from .DAT to .FUBAR and I get the same K >> >error, but I do NOT get the expected '%JUMP-F-BADACCFIL, Failed to openi >> >access list file; error '. >>L >> That turns up for file not found, not for RMS$_PRV (or the Pascal equiv).F >> The code handles success, and file not found, but other errors fail
 > quietly, >> which is perhaps slack. > J > Not quite correct -- the code handles successful file open (i.e., do the
 > checks),N > everything else *except* file not found (i.e., exit with error information),J > *and* file not found, which, since the file is not mandatory, is a valid > statusI > (i.e., access = unspecified).  Hopefully, not too slack after all?  ;-)e >  > Also, Chris wrote: > H >> For completeness, check_access_and_options should report all errors I
 > suppose:J >> ss$_nopriv is true enough, but it would be nice to have a more specific > error. > K > Where I have used a deliberate SS$_NOPRIV exit, I chose to do so based onrF > (my understanding of) the Digital/Compaq view that where security isN > concerned, state the obvious, but obscurity may be appropriate -- JUMP beingM > the type of tool that it is, I feel no more information should be provided.nM > If debugging is required, those doing it should be able to work within this 
 > constraint.h > 5 > However, speaking of slack, my previous message ...  > I >> As for the problem Bob is experiencing, I'm interested to see that thedI >> target username is on a remote node (via DECnet). I did not write JUMPlF >> with this in mind and do not recall testing it, but that may be the
 > problem.J >> Bob, was this working previously? What has changed that you can recall?  G It was, and the problem is that I don't know what changed. If I knew...s  J > ... was written without reference to the source, and without having used > JUMP > for a *long* time. 8-((  > M > Anyway, suffice to say, my comments about the target being via DECnet might H > have been caused by a cosmic ray (or six) hitting the old neurons. The > DECnetK > entry in the audit record is the source of the login (you all knew that).e  I Well, yes, my personal account (KAPLOWRO) has too many PRIVs for me to doaL plain user testing, so I have an alter ego account (KAPLOW) with only normalF user privs. And I've been testing by setting host from somewhere else.   > Now, as to the problem:  > L > 1. The failures appear to be from SET HOST sessions -- does the same thing, > occur from a telnet session (for example)?   Yes:    ( > 2. Make the access file one line only: >        cactus : > and see what happens -- it should fail parsing the file.  G %JUMP-F-BADDATA, Format of Access List data record seems to be invalid.h  ( > 3. Make the access file one line only: >        kaplow : kaplowro% > and see what happens for that jump.   D That's exactly what I've been testing with, but I just did it again:  G %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violationt   > 4. Put the line: >        cactusiN > into your normal access file immediately before your relevant valid entry --0 > it should fail parsing the file at that point.  G %JUMP-F-BADDATA, Format of Access List data record seems to be invalid.k  N > 5. As for 4 above, but immediately after the good entry -- should proceed to  > NOPRIV as per your experience.  G %JUMP-F-BADDATA, Format of Access List data record seems to be invalid.o  D The problem seems to be that nothing in the file is getting matched.  L > 6. Using your normal access file, jump using /NOAUDIT -- should proceed to7 > NOPRIV as per your experience and *no other* message.l  G %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violationn  K > 7. Try compiling/linking with DEBUG and then see what happens. You shouldmM > be able to follow the code path right up to the exit. (I didn't incorporatem > DEBUGtN > into the build procedure, but it should be fairly straightforward -- if not,; > let me                                                   t. > know and I'll provide a modified procedure.)  5 THis will take me a bit to try. I'll get back to you.P  N > 8. Can you find a successful audit trail entry (prior to failures starting)? > If you canM > determine when it started failing, perhaps any changes that occured at that8 > time( > might become clear and provide a clue.  J It was working in mid May. Looks like no one used it for a few weeks, then! it started failing around 8-June.v  K > 9. Would you mind sending me a copy of your access file, please? (only ifB > that's+ > okay with your security folk, of course!)    I'll ask for permission...  H But the one I've been testing with for much of last week is nothing more0 than the one line you asked me to use in step 3!   	Bob Kaplow	   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:08:52 GMTo- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>-& Subject: Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40s0 Message-ID: <3B2E278B.290C474E@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   "Steeples, Oliver" wrote:sF > There is something about RA3000's and lun mapping but can't remeber.  M Me neither!  I think that LUN mapping is available on the storage side of the1P HSZ22, but this controller doesn't appear to have a problem assigning LUNs above# 7 so I didn't look into it further.a  R > http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/techdoc/raidstorage/RA3000cable.html  P That is an interesting document.  The diagram closest to my configuration is theJ one at the bottom, regarding the rackmount RA3000 and a 3-host, single-busI cluster configuration.  (I have only two hosts, and so I didn't think busrJ arbitration would require the SCSI switch which I don't have either.)  TheP bottom line is "16 LUNS available to each host."  If I read that literally, thenI I DO see all the disks I will ever see from VMS and the (single per host) M KZPBA-CY, namely dkc000-007 and dkc100-107.  I was expecting the LUNS to makeuO devices show up such as dkc008, dkc009... dkc015, and dkc108, dkc109... dkc115,nP which would allow me to "see" 32 LUNS.  If the latter were the case, then (minusN 2 HSZ22 storage-side LUNs) I could install 6 JBOD disks x 4 shelves = 24 disksP total.  Now I am having trouble locating the RA3000 document that made me expect
 that. (:-(  ! > Also there is the HSZ22 confis: > > ACTIVE / ACTIVE: One host port is active on each controller.   I selected this default.  < > The KZPBA-CB (diff) and VMS will handle the LUNS no probs.  N That is what I ordered, but what shipped was the KZPBA-CY.  I think these partP nubers differ only in the presence of the manual in the -CB package.  I borrowedO a manual from another site, and it was very helpful in convincing me that I had P to use the dratted Alpha BIOS console with EEROMCFG.EXE to modify some params inH the KZPBAs.  I used this to verify the correct setting of the SCSI resetM parameter, but frankly it appears to allow SCSI resets anyhow because shortlysO after the SRM console says Initializing pka, pkb, pkc...  I have every computerrO in my cluster complain about losing it's connection to pkc0 and going (briefly)  into mount verify. (:-(   K > I would verify the cabling and HSZ22 config through SWCC as these are the 1 > most likely causes of the missing 100-107 LUNs.w  O I beg your pardon, but I originally meant to say that I DO see devices dkc100 -hO 107.  Is that all I will ever see?  Dkc000-007 plus dkc100-007 would be 16 LUNS  total.    - JBs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:46:53 -0400s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40sL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011246530001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  A In article <3B2E278B.290C474E@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswellg <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote:w    J > the KZPBAs.  I used this to verify the correct setting of the SCSI resetO > parameter, but frankly it appears to allow SCSI resets anyhow because shortly H > after the SRM console says Initializing pka, pkb, pkc...  I have every computerG > in my cluster complain about losing it's connection to pkc0 and goingo	 (briefly). > into mount verify. (:-(s  I ... as predicted and explained in sections A.7.2.5 through A.7.2.7 in thesI "Guidelines for OpenVMS Cluster Configurations" manual.  (Section numbers  from the VMS 7.3 version.)  G Basically, you can ignore those messages.  You can reduce the number ofl5 bus resets, but you can't get rid of them completely.n   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 17:28:14 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edud Subject: Re: Secured FTP+ Message-ID: <9gldne$brv$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>n  m In article <ShJW6.84510$DG1.13940572@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>, "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> writes:iH >It is an option, but it will make things a bit more complicated.  I wasM >really hoping to have that SSL-FTP!  I'll have to re-think a few things, buti" >should be able to make that work.  , How about running ssh with port forwarding? F I haven't looked into it, but my understanding is that while it isn't # transparent, but not opaque either.a   >Thanks, >Davel >e8 >"Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message$ >news:3B2A6092.D3F536E8@gtech.com... >> Dave Pampreen wrote:sM >> > Is there a 3rd party FTP that runs between 2 VMS nodes over the internetd; >> > that uses some sort of encryption to protect the data?  >> >H >> > I've thought about encrypting it on node a, then FTP to node b thenI >> > decrypting it, but I need this to be transparent to my users so thatm >wheniJ >> > they push the file from node a to node b, there does not have to be a< >> > special routine to decrypt it (I hope that makes sense) >> >C >> > I'm running VMS7.2-1 with the latest patched version of TCP/IPo >Services... >>+ >> I am not aware of any "SSL FTP" for VMS.x >>1 >> We have HTTPS (SSL HTTP) and SSH (SSL TELNET).g >> >> Are HTTPS and option ?" >> >> Arneh >p >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:44:22 -0600e% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>- Subject: Re: Secured FTPB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010618114244.0320ee18@ntbsod.psccos.com>  ; At 11:28 AM 6/18/2001, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:sE >In article <ShJW6.84510$DG1.13940572@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>, "Dave @* >Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> writes:J > >It is an option, but it will make things a bit more complicated.  I wasO > >really hoping to have that SSL-FTP!  I'll have to re-think a few things, butm$ > >should be able to make that work. >M, >How about running ssh with port forwarding?F >I haven't looked into it, but my understanding is that while it isn't$ >transparent, but not opaque either.  L To forward a port, you must be able to predict it.  Most FTP implementationsK use a known port for the control channel, but the data ports are random andA therefore unpredictable.     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |-I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" | I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:46:31 -0400l- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>? Subject: Re: Secured FTP# Message-ID: <sb2e0658.026@aaas.org>   J Has anyone mentioned SCP yet? It's the only utility to get me to kick my =L FTP habit. It's based on SSH, and there is a port to x86/win32, Unix, etc. =I You can script it as well, it accepts wild cards. I use pscp (the win32 =9J port) to copy files to and from my Unix boxes all the time. I don't know =@ if anyone has ported it to VMS, but if they haven't they should.  ? >>> "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> 06/18/2001 1:44:22 PM >>>@; At 11:28 AM 6/18/2001, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:IG >In article <ShJW6.84510$DG1.13940572@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>, "Dave=20g* >Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> writes:J > >It is an option, but it will make things a bit more complicated.  I wasE > >really hoping to have that SSL-FTP!  I'll have to re-think a few =7 things, butl$ > >should be able to make that work. >-, >How about running ssh with port forwarding?F >I haven't looked into it, but my understanding is that while it isn't$ >transparent, but not opaque either.  L To forward a port, you must be able to predict it.  Most FTP implementation= soI use a known port for the control channel, but the data ports are random =g andi therefore unpredictable.     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+.I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |MI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |aI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |0I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:15:30 -0400e; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> , Subject: Re: Setting up Mail, WEB page, etc.$ Message-ID: <3b2e3767$1@news.si.com>  H >Installed  a T1 yesterday and as a result will need to do POP mail, Web server.l ... E >What do I need to do this under VMS? licensed layered products, etc?8  K At a minimum, a VMS license, a TCP/IP license (for Compaq TCP/IP, or one of1L Process SOftware's offerings), a pop server like IUPOP3 (or use the one thatI comes with the IP stack), and a Web server like OSU or WASD (the IP stackf may come with one, too). --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com"A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coms= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventr< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:21:21 -0700t! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>c( Subject: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.39 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEGECMAA.tom@kednos.com>r  H Best way to set up TCPIP$HOST?  Ran TCPIP$CONFIG, but that didn't do it.  
 Objective: 1.SMTP 2.POPf 3.BIND 4. Anything else   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:10:14 +0200s= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>-, Subject: Re: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.35 Message-ID: <3B2E0BC6.7483E587@contrastmediagroep.nl>)   Tom Linden wrote:o  J > Best way to set up TCPIP$HOST?  Ran TCPIP$CONFIG, but that didn't do it.  H What do you mean with TCPIP$HOST? The TCPIP$HOST.DAT file? If it doesn't3 exist, TCPIP$CONFIG will create the file for you.  X   > Objective: > 1.SMTP > 2.POPr > 3.BIND > 4. Anything else  @ TCPIP$CONFIG is the way to go. So what are the specifics of your	 problems?e   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:31:56 -0700t! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: RE: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.39 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEGGCMAA.tom@kednos.com>r  J Yes, I left the suffix off.  I did run TCPIP$CONFIG, but it did not createB the file.  Maybe I should run it again and let DHCP configure it ?   > -----Original Message-----F > From: Oswald Knoppers [mailto:Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl]% > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 7:10 AMe > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3 >r >i > Tom Linden wrote:n >FL > > Best way to set up TCPIP$HOST?  Ran TCPIP$CONFIG, but that didn't do it. >-J > What do you mean with TCPIP$HOST? The TCPIP$HOST.DAT file? If it doesn't3 > exist, TCPIP$CONFIG will create the file for you.P >o > > Objective:
 > > 1.SMTP	 > > 2.POP7
 > > 3.BIND > > 4. Anything else >tB > TCPIP$CONFIG is the way to go. So what are the specifics of your > problems?c >a > Oswald >:   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 15:43:47 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)>, Subject: Re: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3' Message-ID: <9gl7jj$4k8$1@joe.rice.edu>,  " Tom Linden (tom@kednos.com) wrote:F : Yes, I left the suffix off.  I did run TCPIP$CONFIG, but it did not  : create the file.    ) Did you look in SYS$SYSTEM for the file ?>   --Jerry Leslie     f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:23:38 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>' Subject: UCX problem - printing? other?l+ Message-ID: <3B2E00DA.9B640439@rtfmcsi.com>d  G I'm seeing that the operator.log file on one particular system is beingpC flooded with messages like the following [print queue name varies]:n  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  17-JUN-2001 00:36:34.02  %%%%%%%%%%%  Message from user SYSTEM on CORPH UCX$TELNETSYM - (SEAT$LASER1) open_socket_ast invoked with bad IOSB 556: device timeoutc    & The system particulars are as follows:  @   Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 32   on a AlphaServer 2100 5/300 running OpenVMS V7.1    E Nothing in particular in the documentation refers to this problem.  AdF search of the "Ask the Wizard" site also turns of nothing pertinent to
 this problem.e  E A Google search indicates that one other person has posted a questionhE about the same problem in some time in 1999, and that no replies wered received to the original post.  C It also appears that while the printing problem opcom messages were B being generated that there was a problem receiving incoming telnetF connections on this system.  Unfortunately, the system was rebooted byE an operator before I could get a remote console connection to try and . diagnose the problem through the console port.  F Any clues as to what's going on here w/respect to the IOSB 556 part ofH the message?  I'm assuming that the text "device timeout" is in fact theH descriptive text for an IOSB code of 556, but I don't have have docs forF TCP/IP $QIO calls handy to check this for sure.  Could it be that someB part of the WAN was down and that the remote printers could not be communicated with?     TIA,   Chucks -- Chuck Choppy  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager7                                   8007740718@skytel.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:06:43 +0200t= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>m+ Subject: Re: UCX problem - printing? other? 5 Message-ID: <3B2E0AF3.2050C05C@contrastmediagroep.nl>u   Chuck Chopp wrote:  : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  17-JUN-2001 00:36:34.02  %%%%%%%%%%%" > Message from user SYSTEM on CORPJ > UCX$TELNETSYM - (SEAT$LASER1) open_socket_ast invoked with bad IOSB 556: > device	 > timeout   D This probably means that this printer is unreachable. Or that the IPB address associated with this printer is wrong (and non-existand).     H > Any clues as to what's going on here w/respect to the IOSB 556 part ofJ > the message?  I'm assuming that the text "device timeout" is in fact theJ > descriptive text for an IOSB code of 556, but I don't have have docs forH > TCP/IP $QIO calls handy to check this for sure.  Could it be that someD > part of the WAN was down and that the remote printers could not be > communicated with?  ; Yes, 556 (decimal) is a timeout, but not specific to TCPIP:e  
 $ exit 556! %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeoutt $t  E If you telnet to the ip address and the same port you will eventuallyeD get the same error. The telnetsymbiont is just reporting this event.   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:33:10 -0500i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n+ Subject: Re: UCX problem - printing? other?l' Message-ID: <3B2E1F36.A53DEC05@fsi.net>    Oswald Knoppers wrote: >  > Chuck Chopp wrote: > < > > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  17-JUN-2001 00:36:34.02  %%%%%%%%%%%$ > > Message from user SYSTEM on CORPL > > UCX$TELNETSYM - (SEAT$LASER1) open_socket_ast invoked with bad IOSB 556:
 > > device > > timeoutt > F > This probably means that this printer is unreachable. Or that the IPC > address associated with this printer is wrong (and non-existand).t > J > > Any clues as to what's going on here w/respect to the IOSB 556 part ofL > > the message?  I'm assuming that the text "device timeout" is in fact theL > > descriptive text for an IOSB code of 556, but I don't have have docs forJ > > TCP/IP $QIO calls handy to check this for sure.  Could it be that someF > > part of the WAN was down and that the remote printers could not be > > communicated with? > = > Yes, 556 (decimal) is a timeout, but not specific to TCPIP:e >  > $ exit 556# > %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout  > $- > G > If you telnet to the ip address and the same port you will eventuallyhF > get the same error. The telnetsymbiont is just reporting this event.  G What sound suspicious to me is "device" timeout, rather than connectionwE timeout *AND the fact that it's being reported from the lower layers.e  A Not sure what it means either, but I can't help feeling somethingt fundamental is amiss.2   -- t David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:08:32 GMTe0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>& Subject: Re: V7.3 backup "improvement"> Message-ID: <MPG.15978f1b376208ab989696@news.bellatlantic.net>  = In article <jZVV6.48243$V6.2482552@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>, w ewilts@ewilts.org says...k   [...]e  J > Agreed!  I do realize that Compaq is working hard to try and solve this K > issue, but I believe they need to work in the real world for a while and s2 > see the pain they're causing with these changes. >  >         .../Ed  G Ed, if so this is good news.  I have never received any acknowledgementa: from Compaq that this is a bug and not intended behaviour.  @ Right now I am using the hack solution of doing a fake backup ofE [000000...]*.dir to the null device with /record to update the backup @ dates of all the directories.  So I haven't been beating on themA lately, but as far as I can tell, I still have an open SPR on thenD issue.  (BTW, don't say "SPR" to them; they don't know what it meansD anymore.  I still have a large stack of 12-part carbon SPR forms.  I, wonder what would happen if I sent one in??)  B P.S.  It looks like they closed my original call on 01-May.  Urgh.   -- t John SantosC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:43:58 -0300a) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bri Subject: Re: VMSTARkL Message-ID: <OFD859BBE7.9032EF40-ON03256A6F.003AE64D@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  @ It is just for "standardize" the tar command under DCL standard.   REgardst   FC        B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> em 13/06/2001 21:33:27  = Favor responder a "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms       Assunto: Re: VMSTARl    * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >dA > Would be possible to create the comand BACKUP/TAR  with all the C > parameters (ex. /PARAMETER=(xvf) )  or BACKUP/TAR/XVF (...)  ????o   To what end?  G That is, why use tar format for BACKUP savesets? Use tar or BACKUP, but1= not both - or BACKUP to a disk saveset, the "tar" the result.B   -- David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:48:35 +0800t" From: "Kenneth" <best@hotmail.com> Subject: X25 and FTAM problemo0 Message-ID: <9glbu7$1l10@imsp212.netvigator.com>  4 I have try to connect dir the remote node with FTAM:   $ dir/app=ftam APP"ID"::"A.A"   I but I got the error message in the console that "Server Connection reject $ for X25 client node Local:.mysystem"  , I have do all all the configuration for the, - isoapplications.datn# - create the osi transport templateS  - create the x25 access template - create the x25 access classt  K I have to set up 2 links, and I have make one link up and the others alwaysm failed. I just don't know why.  K How can I check if the X25 link is really working in the router? I rememberiG I can do the command "set host/x25 NUA ...." but I don't know the exactl syntax.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:00:22 +0800'" From: "Kenneth" <best@hotmail.com> Subject: X25 problem/ Message-ID: <9glc3a$1n6@imsp212.netvigator.com>a  I If I delete and then create the same osi transport template, do I need ton7 restart the osak process in order to make it effective?e   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 16:06:59 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)i  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <9gl8v3$2qp6$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  H In article <y44rtkiksz.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,J  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:0 |> Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> writes: |> tO |> > > There is a difference between weather prediction and climate prediction.l |> > a |> > Let's see...P |> > SA |> > short term inaccurate model... weather prediction: 2 + 2 = 5> |> > e5 |> > long term precise model... climate prediction: -TI |> >  123456789012345678901234567890 + 123456789012345678901234567890 = - $ |> >  246913578024691357802469135780 |> >   |> > I don't think so. |> m) |> Turn on your brain before typing, man.5 |> 1 |> Let's make two predictions. |> cK |> Wheather: Next year on 13 June at 3 p.m., at the place I am now, the air , |> temperature will be 17.3 degrees Celsius.  A 50% chance of this one.  It either will or it won't.  I doubt anyI= weatherman could accurately predict this on the 12th of June.    |>  O |> Climate: Next year in June, the average temperature over the week of 13 June D |> will be 3 degrees higher than the similar average a month before. |> f8 |> Which of these is likely to hold, which not, and why?  G I know what your going for here.  of course, for this year, you and anydJ climatologist would have lost.  We had an above normal middle of May, withI temperatures int he 80's and nearing 90, followed by a cooler than normalf6 (including frost!!) early June.  Nobody saw it coming.  C So, the answer to your question is that either one has a 50% chance F of working.  Your guess is either right or wrong, but it is still just a guess.   |>  # |> That is the relevant difference.    None.c   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 16:12:11 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)g  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <9gl98r$2qp6$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  H In article <y41yooikkt.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,J  Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: |>I |>                                     And we'll put a force field aroundlJ |> your borders to prevent exchange of athmosphere as well. Anything else?  ? OK, as long as that force field keeps all the US $$$ inside out1> borders too.  Oh damn, there goes your support from 90% of the rest of the world.   bill   -- 8J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 18:31:58 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate changeH Message-ID: <y4vglt696p.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:n  A > OK, as long as that force field keeps all the US $$$ inside outn@ > borders too.  Oh damn, there goes your support from 90% of the > rest of the world.  L The US of A has been in net debt to the rest of the world for about a decadeJ now, and continues to bleed at a rate of several hundred billion dollars aM year. I think the pain would be at least as large inside the force filed 8-).e   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 16:33:01 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)-  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <9glaft$2qp6$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3B27B573.35CD072D@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |>  O |> *IF* there is conclusive proof that CO2 levels have risen in the atmosphere,>M |> isn't it perfectly fair to state that the current CO2 production on planete9 |> earth is greater than Earth's ability to consume CO2 ?d  E Is it not also just as likely that if the rainforest in Brazil wasn't D being destroyed for no particularly good reason that the earth might; in fact be able to consume all that CO2 int he first place.c  I This has more to do with haves and have-nots socialism than atmospherics..F The rest of the world wants the lifestyle we have, we won't give it toD them for nothing so they will just have to take it away from us too.   "Who is John Galt?"    bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   @   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:55:27 -0400M2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate changeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011255280001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <9glaft$2qp6$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote:  0 > "Who is John Galt?"r  I That's the most sensible thing that's appeared in this thread in weeks...    -- 7 Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:56:40 +0200 J From: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jguilla-at-attglobal-dot-net@nospam.please>  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <3B2E32C8.7040803@nospam.please>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  K > This has more to do with haves and have-nots socialism than atmospherics.oH > The rest of the world wants the lifestyle we have, we won't give it toF > them for nothing so they will just have to take it away from us too.  $ This is some kind of joke, isn't it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:34:28 +0100.- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>   Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change) Message-ID: <3B2E0364.2E31464A@bbc.co.uk>    Robert Deininger wrote:g  J > In article <9glaft$2qp6$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote: >K > > "Who is John Galt?"p >]K > That's the most sensible thing that's appeared in this thread in weeks...j  / yet you still keep contibuting to the thread...     --d6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofv MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:10:48 +0100g0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?* Message-ID: <3B2DE1B8.D08313EA@uk.sun.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:e > K > In article <3B2A19E5.A90F9744@uk.sun.com>, Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM wrote:o > 7 > > However since Bushes recent visit to Europe and thel7 > > very public bust up over the US's refusal to ratifyo6 > > Kyoto the EU has announced that all the current EU# > > members will ratify the treaty.f > G > Will that include Ireland?  Pesky voters.  Something ought to be done  > about them...  >   7 Yes it includes Ireland. The Irish voters have however r4 voted against enlarging the EU to include Poland and other prospective EU members.f   Regardsp Andrew Harrisoni Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 08:30:16 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brg2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <OFF2A70504.3592C20C-ON03256A6F.003EF60E@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  D And we from South American are being pressed by USA to join the ALCA4 (free commerce zone) with USA+Canada+Mexico (NAFTA).  : I really would like an alignment with Europe  or Japan ...  K Let is see when we define the HDTV standard where the brazilians want to gol ! ! !s   Regards    FC            A andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> em 18/06/2001 08:10:48o  < Favor responder a andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt      2 Assunto: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?       Robert Deininger wrote:r > K > In article <3B2A19E5.A90F9744@uk.sun.com>, Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM wrote:n >n7 > > However since Bushes recent visit to Europe and the 7 > > very public bust up over the US's refusal to ratifyn6 > > Kyoto the EU has announced that all the current EU# > > members will ratify the treaty.o >eG > Will that include Ireland?  Pesky voters.  Something ought to be done  > about them...o >   6 Yes it includes Ireland. The Irish voters have however4 voted against enlarging the EU to include Poland and other prospective EU members.d   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:37:37 -0400h2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011037370001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <3B2DE1B8.D08313EA@uk.sun.com>, Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM wrote:      9 > Yes it includes Ireland. The Irish voters have however  6 > voted against enlarging the EU to include Poland and > other prospective EU members.6  > That isn't _actually_ what the Irish referendum was about.  MyH understanding is that the big issue was giving up their veto on a numberJ of EU matters.  Folks tried to tie it to enlargement, but that was not the primary concern as I read it.   J I wonder which EU treaties have to have a referendum in Ireland, and whichI can be ratified without approval of the voters.  Is there a general rule,s or is it decided case-by-case?   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comw   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:39:52 -0400s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011039530001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleA <OFF2A70504.3592C20C-ON03256A6F.003EF60E@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,e* fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  F > And we from South American are being pressed by USA to join the ALCA6 > (free commerce zone) with USA+Canada+Mexico (NAFTA).  E Pressed by the USA?  Perhaps invited would be a better word.  I think E there is more interest here in trade agreements with the UK than with  Brazil.b  < > I really would like an alignment with Europe  or Japan ...  4 I don't think anyone here is trying to prevent that.   -- 0 Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comm   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 09:31:57 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)t2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <SHm6cL51hD+8@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  M In article <OFF2A70504.3592C20C-ON03256A6F.003EF60E@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, _.    fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:  F > And we from South American are being pressed by USA to join the ALCA6 > (free commerce zone) with USA+Canada+Mexico (NAFTA). > C     NAFTA seems different from the EU. I suspect this is mainly duerE to the relatively equal economic power of the participants in the EU. C With NAFTA it's basically "whatever is good for the US is good for BA NAFTA". Thus we see plant closures in Canada ( such as the former A Digital plant in Kanata ) and we see that it does nothing to stophH protectionist lobbyists in the US from blocking Canadian lumber exports.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:54:07 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011254080001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <SHm6cL51hD+8@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote:  O > In article <OFF2A70504.3592C20C-ON03256A6F.003EF60E@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,  0 >    fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: > H > > And we from South American are being pressed by USA to join the ALCA8 > > (free commerce zone) with USA+Canada+Mexico (NAFTA). > > E >     NAFTA seems different from the EU. I suspect this is mainly dueSG > to the relatively equal economic power of the participants in the EU.eE > With NAFTA it's basically "whatever is good for the US is good for sC > NAFTA". Thus we see plant closures in Canada ( such as the formertC > Digital plant in Kanata ) and we see that it does nothing to stop J > protectionist lobbyists in the US from blocking Canadian lumber exports.  F NAFTA has a 15-year phase-in period.  It was ratified during Clinton'sJ first year, and IIRC it started on 1-Jan-1994.  So timewise at least, it'sA only about half implemented.  There is also a lot of wiggle room.e  I How can you say the participants in the EU have relatively equal economic H power?!?  Germany and France clearly dominate, and there are a number of/ members who are TINY by any reasonable measure.h  > Canada's economy is much smaller than the US's, but Canada hasF traditionally been our #1 or #2 trading partner.  NAFTA hasn't changed that, AFAIK.   -- i Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comn   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 10:27:20 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)c2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <cBltdGkEXPPH@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  M In article <rdeininger-1806011254080001@user-2ivecai.dialup.mindspring.com>, s8     rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  F >>     NAFTA seems different from the EU. I suspect this is mainly dueH >> to the relatively equal economic power of the participants in the EU.F >> With NAFTA it's basically "whatever is good for the US is good for D >> NAFTA". Thus we see plant closures in Canada ( such as the formerD >> Digital plant in Kanata ) and we see that it does nothing to stopK >> protectionist lobbyists in the US from blocking Canadian lumber exports.. > H > NAFTA has a 15-year phase-in period.  It was ratified during Clinton'sL > first year, and IIRC it started on 1-Jan-1994.  So timewise at least, it'sC > only about half implemented.  There is also a lot of wiggle room.  > H    But it was an extension of the pre-existing US-Canada FTA which dates back to the 80s.  K > How can you say the participants in the EU have relatively equal economic J > power?!?  Germany and France clearly dominate, and there are a number of1 > members who are TINY by any reasonable measure.t > D    I meant that in the EU the largest member doesn't have an economyI 10 times the size of the next largest participant, like in NAFTA. I thinkgB the dynamics are quite different if you have several members with D significant clout. The EU is also a much tighter alliance than NAFTAA (common currency, less restrictions on labour crossing borders ).e  @ > Canada's economy is much smaller than the US's, but Canada hasG >traditionally been our #1 or #2 trading partner.  NAFTA hasn't changed-
 >that, AFAIK.1  K     I've always been led to believe Canada has always been the US's largestdH trading partner, and by quite a wide margin. That doesn't mean the termsD of the partnership aren't pretty much dictated by the US or that the8 rules can't be changed at the whim of the US government.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.336 ************************