1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 19 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 337       Contents: ADV:CREDIT CARD PROCESSING Re: Advanced Server  vs. Samba3 Alpha/VMS 7.3 sys$icc PAL mode blue screen of death 7 Re: Alpha/VMS 7.3 sys$icc PAL mode blue screen of death & Cancel <VA.000003d1.00379f07@sture.ch>" Compaq: 180 Days of Transformation  Re: Databases available for VMS? Re: dce installation problem Re: dce installation problem DCPS: HP4550 support?  Re: DCPS: HP4550 support? # How to make $SET HOST work, et. al. ' Re: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al. ' Re: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al. ' RE: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al. ' Re: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al. + Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely? ( Intel, Stratus ally against Unix Servers Re: modern day x-terminals Re: Mozilla 0.9.1  Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications2 Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux2 Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux2 Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux= RE: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses = Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses ; Re: Pathworks or AdvancedServer for Hobbyist? Alternatives? ; Re: Pathworks or AdvancedServer for Hobbyist? Alternatives? ) Re: Photo in CETS2001 Registration packet  Re: POSTs via SSL to Apache  Re: POSTs via SSL to Apache  Re: POSTs via SSL to Apache  Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40s  Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40s & Re: Registration for CETS2001 -- when?& Re: Registration for CETS2001 -- when?& Re: Registration for CETS2001 -- when? Re: Secured FTP # Re: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3 # RE: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3   sigaction() bug in Compaq C 6.4? TCL- C in Open VMS Re: TCL- C in Open VMS" Re: UCX problem - printing? other?" Re: UCX problem - printing? other? UCX tcp/ip problems  Re: UCX tcp/ip problems  Re: UCX tcp/ip problems  Re: UCX tcp/ip problems  Re: UCX tcp/ip problems  Re: vms maintenance utility  WE BUY EXCESS DEC/Compaq Re: [OT] Climate change ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:15:08 +0001  From: account1@cardmktplace.com # Subject: ADV:CREDIT CARD PROCESSING ' Message-ID: <364.446362.777743@unknown>   9 ********************************************************* 4 To be removed from from further mailings respond to / this message with "remove" in the subject line. 9 *********************************************************    Dear Friend,  1 Discover how you can accept credit cards directly 6 from your website, telephone or fax for your products 0 and services and never need to purchase or lease7 expensive credit card equipment or pay a large monthly  < fee for online ordering capabilities or real time processing
 transactions.   6 **Brand New** Merchant Credit Card acceptance program 9 allows you to accept Visa, MasterCard, Amex and Discover  : any TIME,any WHERE through phone, fax or internet without ? the need to purchase or lease expensive credit card equipment.  = This brand new program will allow you to accept credit cards  1 in 24-48 hours after submitting your application.   ; You simply pick up your telephone, dial a special toll free 9 800# 24 hrs a day 7 days a week, input a passcode and the : credit card # and receive an immediate authorization over : the phone. Or if you prefer you can get your credit cards : approved directly through your website. Within 2 days the ? money is deposited into your bank account. This is an exciting  : program for all businesses. Before you spend any money on 9 a credit card merchant program LOOK at this new program!    5 We have a 95%  approval rate for most business types  " regardless of past credit history!  B If you have an interest in learning more about a Merchant Account z for yourself or your business please email your Name, PHONE NUMBER (Don't forget your area code) and best time to call to:   mailto:signup1@cardmktplace.com    4 A representative will return your call within 24hrs.  4 Or feel free to call us on our 24 hour voicemail at:   1-800-288-7363   ACT NOW AND RECEIVE YOUR VERY OWN ADVERTISING ACCOUNT IN ONE OF THE INTERNETS LARGEST PAY-PER-CLICK SEARCH ENGINES-ABSOLUTELY FREE!   > P.S. Be sure to ask about our complete shoppingcart solutions!  A This offer only applies to U.S. Residents only and some Canadians $ with valid U.S. Social Security #'s.         IBS/PBS a registered ISO for NBR  7657 Winnetka Ave  Canoga Park Ca. 91306    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:27:57 -0500 : From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov>' Subject: Re: Advanced Server  vs. Samba + Message-ID: <9glknv$a41$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>   L PATHWORKS V4 was an outstanding file and print server for DOS and Windows 3.K PATHWORKS V5, on the other hand, was a disgace compared to its predecessor. H We replaced it with Samba V1.9 on VAX and Alpha VMS 6.2, and Samba had aH different set of problems that I found even more annoying, such as goingH into a CPU-bound loop at high priority that is hard to kill from another? process that is getting 0% of the CPU.  Most of us now use FTP.   L Samba V2 is incrementally better, and the VMS port now uses some features ofH the backport library that the V1 ports had to emulate themselves, but itJ needs more than incremental improvements before it can be taken seriously.G I do admire the VMS porting effort, but I suspect the Samba server runs L better on UNIX than it does on VMS.  Perhaps the COE will allow Samba to run3 well on VMS some day, but that day is not here yet.   L Some time after PATHWORKS V5, the product was moved into the VMS group whereL it should have been in the first place and renamed Advanced Server.  The VMSL group certainly knows what it's doing, and I have heard that Advanced ServerH is a respectable product.  If you need a production quality product, youK will not be happy with Samba on VMS.  I have heard good reports on Advanced C Server, but I have not used it myself.  I urge you to check it out.   
 Good luck,1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541  scandora@cmt.anl.gov    7 "Sandro Polato" <polato@igi.pd.cnr.it> wrote in message 7 news:2af2b3d8.0106180609.7feef36a@posting.google.com... 	 > Hi all, F >    I'd like to know about your experiences with Samba on OpenVMS and" > Advanced Server. In particular : > A > o  After a test of Samba has anyone opted for Advanced Server o  > viceversa ? And why ?  > 6 > o  Does the current version of Samba support ODS-5 ? > E > o  Has anyone noted a strong performance difference between the two  > products ? > G > o  Has anyone a positive experience with Samba - or Advanced Server -  > and Multinet ? > C > The kind of object I'd like to build is a powerfull CIFS/NFS file C > server based on a OpenVMS cluster. About your opinion, could this D > solution be a competitive alternative - in term of performance andG > functionality - to classics NAS (Network Attached Storage) appliances , > based on Linux core o Windows Powered OS ? > 2 > Thank in advance for your discussion contribute. >  > Sandro Polato  >  > www.itre.com/mf    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:21:24 +0100 , From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m>< Subject: Alpha/VMS 7.3 sys$icc PAL mode blue screen of death1 Message-ID: <9glh8l$raa$1@uranium.btinternet.com>    Hi,    Does     Halt code = 7 #     Machine check while in PAL mode 
     PC = A3E0  mean anything to anybody?   J Sorry I don't have a bug check but in case anyone's interested, I was ableJ to crash an Alpha box by simply pressing Control-Y! Hard to believe I know? but it did happen twice, and I was the only one on the machine.   J I was doing some sys$icc_* testing and had a working server with a receiveK AST spawned/nowait as a sub-process and a client that I'd run several times I in the context of the parent process to test connect/reject cxn data etc, E etc. If my client program hung itself or as a lazy way of killing the K sub-process, I would press Ctrl-Y. It doesn't happen all the time and if it K helps I wasn't using the simple registery logical thing. (But I did see the & clu$icc_orbs_node table get populated)  L This is the third time in the last year that *different* *user* mode code ofL mine on different machines has been able to crash an Alpha :-( The first wasL calling DECdtm, the second the BG driver with a $qiow io$_acpcontrol and nowJ $icc services. Is anyone else managing to bring down an Alpha/VMS box withJ not much more than a *user mode* "Hello World" program? The first two wereK fixed with patches which is great and I'm sure the third will be too sooner B or later but I don't recall the same thing happening with VAX/VMS.  J WRT $ICC services, is there any performance benefit in using a zero lengthG string for the nodename when client and server with both be on the same  node?    Regards Richard Maher   L PS. Sorry I forgot to write down the model of the workstation but it was oneG of those old ones that you have to power down before rebooting. (or the 8 reboot just stops after the "loading DECnet-OSI message)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:48:14 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)@ Subject: Re: Alpha/VMS 7.3 sys$icc PAL mode blue screen of deathL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1906010148150001@user-2iveb3m.dialup.mindspring.com>  A In article <9glh8l$raa$1@uranium.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher"  <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m> wrote:    > Hi,  >  > Does >     Halt code = 7 % >     Machine check while in PAL mode  >     PC = A3E0  > mean anything to anybody?   B Could be a hardware problem.  Bad memory?  I'd run all the consoleJ diagnositics.  And look at the error logs for errors corrected on the fly.  G Did you upgrade the firmware as recommended before the VMS 7.3 upgrade?   L > Sorry I don't have a bug check but in case anyone's interested, I was ableL > to crash an Alpha box by simply pressing Control-Y! Hard to believe I knowA > but it did happen twice, and I was the only one on the machine.   3 Well, if you're serious about tracking this down...   7 Get the details of the hardware/firmware configuration.   . Check for VMS 7.3 patches (are there any yet?)  * Configure the system to make a crash dump.  3 Look at at least the summary of the crash analysis.   4 You're in luck, the problem seems easy to reproduce.    > Regards Richard Maher  > N > PS. Sorry I forgot to write down the model of the workstation but it was oneI > of those old ones that you have to power down before rebooting. (or the : > reboot just stops after the "loading DECnet-OSI message)   That's pretty vague!!    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:29:33 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>/ Subject: Cancel <VA.000003d1.00379f07@sture.ch> + Message-ID: <VA.000003d2.02ae57b4@sture.ch>    Message cancelled by author    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 05:12:09 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Compaq: 180 Days of Transformation < Message-ID: <JaBX6.1461$wU6.1981124@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  I Big Things are about to happen in Houston. Most of these things will have K far-reaching ramifications. Shannon Knows Compaq subscribers will of course ? be apprised of these developments within the next several days.    -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net$ Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:44:09 -0500 : From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov>) Subject: Re: Databases available for VMS? + Message-ID: <9gllma$a7n$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>   J Someone on the Rdb mailling list is likely to have the answer.  Send a oneK line message "SUBSCRIBE" (without the quotes) to oraclerdb-request@jcc.com, 1 and then send your question to oraclerdb@jcc.com.   
 Good luck,1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541  scandora@cmt.anl.gov   > John Parker wrote: > B > > We are currently using the old DEC RDB and DBMS software on anB > > Alphaserver 4100 running OpenVMS version 7.1-1H2.  While I wasE > > able to get DEC DBMS and RDB installed on this particular version B > > of VMS, I have been unable to successfully install them on 7.1J > > or 7.2-1.  These attempts to install get the "system version mismatch"D > > and "must relink" error messages.  (By the way, does anyone knowJ > > how I can get past this?  I am under the assumption that once softwareK > > is installed on 7.x, the software should still work with any subsequent J > > upgrades to a higher 7.x version, with some exceptions for other third > > party software packages.)  > > G > > I know that these two software packages are no longer supported and F > > that we should find other alternatives.  The problem is that theseI > > two packages are not utilized very extensively.  The computer science G > > department uses them for maybe two classes, tops, a semester (maybe K > > a total of 20-25 students).  This makes it a little hard to justify any I > > expenditures that may come with, say, purchasing RDB and DBMS through  Oracle.  > > I > > Are there any alternative database software packages that may be more H > > affordable than Oracle?  We have not yet priced the software throughH > > Oracle but expect that it will not be priced in our range for such aH > > small group of users.  We are a state-run educational institution so > > money is a factor. > > ; > > I would greatly appreciate any comments or suggestions.  > >  > > Thank you, > >  > > John > > Systems Programmer& > > Stephen F. Austin State University > > Nacogdoches, Texas >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:41:28 +0200 ) From: "Carmen Baumann" <cbaumann@post.ch> % Subject: Re: dce installation problem ) Message-ID: <3b2e594c_2@news.datacomm.ch>    Hi,   H are you sure, the logical dce$specific is visible to you config process?   best regards   Jakob Erber   D Jean-Francois Marchal <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> schrieb in im0 Newsbeitrag: 9gdea2$igc$1@reader1.imaginet.fr...
 > Hi all ! > G > I've just got a problem installing DCE RPC (v3.0) on VMS Alpha v7.2-1  > D > Configuring ($ DEC$SETUP CONFIG) begins properly , but ends with : >  > ERROR : > Error starting RPC & Security Client Services (DCE$DCED) > Image fileF >   "Sys$System:LoginOut.Exe/Input=Dce$Specific:[Var.dced]DCE$DCED.Com
 >   not found  >  > the .com file really exists 0 > and is properly propected against [dce$server] >  > Any hint will be welcome5 > I can mail the entire installation log if necessary  >  > Jean-Franois Marchal  > X9000 - LYON >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 07:29:02 +0200 > From: "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>% Subject: Re: dce installation problem . Message-ID: <9gmnrr$gim$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  : Yes it is,since a $dir Dce$Specific:[Var.dced]DCE$DCED.Com shows the file.    Cordialement
 Jean-Franois       A "Carmen Baumann" <cbaumann@post.ch> a crit dans le message news:  3b2e594c_2@news.datacomm.ch... > Hi,  > J > are you sure, the logical dce$specific is visible to you config process? >  > best regards > 
 > Jakob Erber  > F > Jean-Francois Marchal <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> schrieb in im2 > Newsbeitrag: 9gdea2$igc$1@reader1.imaginet.fr... > > Hi all ! > > I > > I've just got a problem installing DCE RPC (v3.0) on VMS Alpha v7.2-1  > > F > > Configuring ($ DEC$SETUP CONFIG) begins properly , but ends with : > > 	 > > ERRORe< > > Error starting RPC & Security Client Services (DCE$DCED) > > Image fileH > >   "Sys$System:LoginOut.Exe/Input=Dce$Specific:[Var.dced]DCE$DCED.Com > >   not foundi > >  > > the .com file really existsi2 > > and is properly propected against [dce$server] > >o > > Any hint will be welcome7 > > I can mail the entire installation log if necessarya > >p > > Jean-Franois Marchalc > > X9000 - LYON > >I > >c > >  > >a >u >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:00:56 GMT.L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: DCPS: HP4550 support?8 Message-ID: <009FDB76.CB5F1C8A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   C.O.V.ers -i  0 DS20E, OpenVMS 7.2-1, Multinet 4.3A-X, DCPS 2.0.  M Our PC group recently got some HP4550Ns (color Laserjet) and asked me to makes! them accessible from VMS as well.   J The HP4550 isn't on the list of supported printers for DCPS, even with theN recently released DCPS 2.0 (which I downloaded and installed; no complaints so far).  p  7 Has anybody managed to make the 4550N work with DCPS?  aK We have some 4050s which work fine, so I'm assuming - possibly mistakenly - J that the 4550 will support the bidirectional communication DCPS requires, L and that I just need some magic to convince DCPS to talk to it. Anybody knowM if that's true, and have the magic (eg, an appropriate UNSUPPORTED module for 
 it) handy?   Thanks,t   -- Alan         O ===============================================================================o0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-30560M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210:O ===============================================================================-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:30:56 -0400r0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>" Subject: Re: DCPS: HP4550 support?; Message-ID: <180620011530566957%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>l  G In article <009FDB76.CB5F1C8A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Alan Winston -a< SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:  L > The HP4550 isn't on the list of supported printers for DCPS, even with theP > recently released DCPS 2.0 (which I downloaded and installed; no complaints so > far).a  A Au contraire!  It's listed, but under "Color LaserJet" instead of - "LaserJet", which might be why you missed it.    Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringe   Compaq Computer Corporatione   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:45:01 -0700e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al.9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEHECMAA.tom@kednos.com>t  K Just installed 7.3 on Alpha433au and tcpip5.1.  Now I can telnet to another  node,  but...  J when I try to execute SET HOST from thei machine to another cluster member (SHO CLUSTER tellsC me it is there) it tells me "remote node is notcurrently reachable"e  @ If I try from another node SET HOST to this new node it tells me "remodte node is unknown"p   What do I need to do?o  L Also when I ran TCPIP$CONFIGURE, upon completing config, I choose option 'e'	 for exit,1I but it just sits there.  Is this correct?   In this config, you can starteL the various services, which I did, and things like telnet work.  However, if% I reboot they don't start.  Shouldn't-3 this script appropriately update the startup files?1  E Am currently logged in as SYSTEM.  When I tried adding an account forjJ TOM/priv=all it created the record, but said it couldn't access the rights& dataabase.  What do I need to do here?   TIAo Tom    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:07:23 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u0 Subject: Re: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al., Message-ID: <3B2E5F75.58E2FD1A@videotron.ca>   Tom Linden wrote:hL > when I try to execute SET HOST from thei machine to another cluster member > (SHO CLUSTER tellsE > me it is there) it tells me "remote node is notcurrently reachable"  > B > If I try from another node SET HOST to this new node it tells me > "remodte node is unknown"S   SET HOST uses DECNET.7  M Sounds to me like one node has DECnet not running (which would explain remoteaK node unreacheable), and another node would not have a populated DECnet nodeb9 database which would explain the remote node is unknown).b   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:34:45 GMT4) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)r0 Subject: Re: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al.1 Message-ID: <3b2e71f3.585583764@news.wcc.govt.nz>n  A On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:45:01 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a wrote:   >l >oL >Just installed 7.3 on Alpha433au and tcpip5.1.  Now I can telnet to another >node, >but...  > K >when I try to execute SET HOST from thei machine to another cluster membern >(SHO CLUSTER tells D >me it is there) it tells me "remote node is notcurrently reachable" > A >If I try from another node SET HOST to this new node it tells me, >"remodte node is unknown" >  >What do I need to do? >pM >Also when I ran TCPIP$CONFIGURE, upon completing config, I choose option 'e' 
 >for exit,J >but it just sits there.  Is this correct?   In this config, you can startM >the various services, which I did, and things like telnet work.  However, ift& >I reboot they don't start.  Shouldn't4 >this script appropriately update the startup files? >uF >Am currently logged in as SYSTEM.  When I tried adding an account forK >TOM/priv=all it created the record, but said it couldn't access the rightsr' >dataabase.  What do I need to do here?B >d Errr....  RTFM?r  F Okay, several things, DECNet is not TCPIP, they coexist and DECNet can" use IP but that's another chapter.  E If you've installed DECnet and I'll assume DECnet V, on both machinescC you also need to run decnet$register. This sets up the known DECnet  node names.   8 This "should" resolve the not currently available issue.  F Nope, entering e should exit. I've not got 7.3, but I am running TCPIP- 5.1. The config stuff has worked okay for me.t  = For the last point, if you're setting up this system with newdC authorization files you need to check you're setting up the variousu* uaf logicals (see the sylogicals template)  F Either there's no logical or possibly there is no rightslist database,C in which case you'll use authorize to create one. Run authorize and * type help at the prompt. See create/right.   HTHe   Rob.   >TIA >Tom >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:51:04 -0700e! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>g0 Subject: RE: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al.9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEHNCMAA.tom@kednos.com>o   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Rob Buxton [mailto:rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz]% > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 2:35 PMi > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: Re: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al. >e >C >C >CC > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:45:01 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e > wrote: >  > >s > >eC > >Just installed 7.3 on Alpha433au and tcpip5.1.  Now I can telnett > to another > >node,	 > >but...e > >a> > >when I try to execute SET HOST from thei machine to another > cluster member > >(SHO CLUSTER tells1F > >me it is there) it tells me "remote node is notcurrently reachable" > >fC > >If I try from another node SET HOST to this new node it tells me@ > >"remodte node is unknown" > >i > >What do I need to do? > >e= > >Also when I ran TCPIP$CONFIGURE, upon completing config, I  > choose option 'e'n > >for exit,L > >but it just sits there.  Is this correct?   In this config, you can startB > >the various services, which I did, and things like telnet work.
 > However, if ( > >I reboot they don't start.  Shouldn't6 > >this script appropriately update the startup files? > >iH > >Am currently logged in as SYSTEM.  When I tried adding an account forB > >TOM/priv=all it created the record, but said it couldn't access > the rights) > >dataabase.  What do I need to do here?) > >n > Errr....  RTFM?d  
 What is RTFM?  >NH > Okay, several things, DECNet is not TCPIP, they coexist and DECNet can$ > use IP but that's another chapter. >vG > If you've installed DECnet and I'll assume DECnet V, on both machines/E > you also need to run decnet$register. This sets up the known DECnet7
 > node names.   K I tried running this script, and got stuck on the first question, Namespacen name.i0 The help documentation was written by a &^%$*()( >0: > This "should" resolve the not currently available issue. >oH > Nope, entering e should exit. I've not got 7.3, but I am running TCPIP/ > 5.1. The config stuff has worked okay for me.   J Well I tried it again, and it does indeed hang on the exit, which BTW they indicate as [E}u when they really meant E >g? > For the last point, if you're setting up this system with new E > authorization files you need to check you're setting up the variousc, > uaf logicals (see the sylogicals template) >lH > Either there's no logical or possibly there is no rightslist database,E > in which case you'll use authorize to create one. Run authorize and , > type help at the prompt. See create/right.  K VMS seems to require that you know a lot of unecessary crap.  Adding a userEC , a node to a cluster and a number of other things are commonplace,  automatable and should beDG automated.  There is no reason to make this so difficult.  W2k makes it  easy, even Tru64L What is the problem here?  Make it unecessarily difficult so nobody will use the system?iL Sorry to rave, I do appreciate the help but it does get a bit frustrating atH times, and please note that I was writing system software before many on4 this list were born! so I have been in the trenches! >  > HTHa >n > Rob. >0 > >TIA > >Tom > >t >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:31:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a0 Subject: Re: How to make $SET HOST work, et. al., Message-ID: <3B2ED5AC.4B46A483@videotron.ca>   Tom Linden wrote: L > Well I tried it again, and it does indeed hang on the exit, which BTW they > indicate as [E}m > when they really meant E  L Some recent VMS utilities have a problem with "exit".  I think it is because6 they were ported from Unix. Type "exit" when not sure.    M > VMS seems to require that you know a lot of unecessary crap.  Adding a useroE > , a node to a cluster and a number of other things are commonplace,O > automatable and should bea
 > automated. ]  K With DECNET-4, network management is a lot simpler and more straighforwards  that the decnet-5 stuff.  G However, because VMS clustering is far more powerful and versatile thaneN clustering on other operating systems, you need to know more before you can beH comfortable with it.  Remember that with VMS, you cluster more than just disks, you cluster the system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:22:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>*4 Subject: Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely?, Message-ID: <3B2E46E8.DF9C5E71@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:H > The device driver itself doesn't generally fire this AST.  It puts theF > IOSB contents into R0,R1 and calls a kernel routine to tell VMS thatF > it's done with the I/O request.  The VMS kernel then passes back theI > IOSB content and requests the AST using code which is common to all I/Oo > postprocessing.a  N *Look* like that chap's problem with AST caleld before IOSB is filled would be caused by something else.   N HOWEVER, considering that TCPIP Services is really some Unix software that wasN ported to VMS and that the QIO interface lacks stuff that would be very usefulL (such as IO$M_TIMEOUT), is it possible that the port was done is such as way; that the porocess you described above is done differently ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:12:03 -0400 + From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org> 1 Subject: Intel, Stratus ally against Unix Serversi# Message-ID: <sb2e60aa.038@aaas.org>   A Before I go home for the evening, I think I'll start something...e  L This Microsoft ... ::cough cough:: I mean Cnet/Zdnet article http://www.zdn=K et.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5092867,00.html?chkpt=3Dzdhpnews01 claims =cI that Stratus, the makers of big huge expensive never crash servers, are = L ditching HP PA-RISC gear for Wintel crap. This quote says it all: "Stratus =L has traditionally used Hewlett-Packard's PA-RISC chips, but the company is =H banking on a new line of servers that uses Intel chips and Windows. It =I argues that the less-expensive Intel and Microsoft technologies are now =eJ good enough to be used in such crash-resistant servers, making them more =C affordable and letting Stratus sell to a larger base of customers."   L Thank goodness - I hadn't read any fiction yet today. The last part is the =F knife in the heart: "Compaq Computer invested in Stratus in January. =I Stratus has embarked on a plan to let other companies, such as NEC, use =y$ its technology in their own servers"   <RANT>D Hi, this is Compaq Computer Corportation. We bought a line of high =K quality, redundant, secure, crash resistant cluser-ready, multi-threaded, =1F multi-processor, hardware and software (software I might add that is =G largely the basis for Windows NT) a few years back. I've got an idea! =lG Let's line Microsoft and Intel's pockets. If they didn't want to sell =pG DEC's gear, if they were going to buy DEC and be ashamed of it - they =aL should have let it die. What did they get out of the deal? I know there is =I a tremendous amount of money to be had from that acquisition - but have =eL they even seen an ROI yet? Do the former DEC people who now work for big Q =K find themselves banging their head against the wall over and over because = J Compaq thinks the only way they can make any money is to sell the stupid =I iPaq? They've bowed out of the PC price wars, Sun is on the run, Oracle = H needs a strong friend against IBM right now, and all they seem to care = about is the iPaq.   "Stupid Puppet"M </RANT>    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 12:40:29 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell) # Subject: Re: modern day x-terminalse. Message-ID: <aobnrxElRidx@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  W In article <tipnhuhvgp3fe4@corp.supernews.com>, Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> writes:A > Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 1 >> In article <M7cyShwo3vNd@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, E >>    wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell) writes:o >> l >>> E >>> Does anybody know of a currently supported x-terminal?  Basicallyo
 >>> something I >>> like the vxt 2000+, but with current hardware and software.  I have ao >>> xvt, butI >>> I don't really use it.  It's slow and doesn't have that much memory. SM >>> Also, most of my network is 100 megabit, but of course the ancient vxt is9 >>> only 10. >>>  >>>  >>> M >>> Before anybody mentions emulation on PCs, I do *not* want to use a PC forS	 >>> this.a >>> L >>     What specifically don't you like about using a PC. I ask this because	 >>     iteL >> seems that there's not a lot in the way of dedicated X terminals anymore.G >> The company we used to get ours from ( NeoStations from Neoware ) noeI >> longer seems to build a "classic X terminal" - but they have a producth; >> based on embedded linux which includes the X11 protocol.i >>  I >>    I looked at an earlier version about a year ago and while it mostly  >>    workedJ >> it wasn't quite "ready for prime time". I'd suspect that in the ensuingM >> year they've probably improved it. I suspect this may be the product we'lle) >> go with next time we need X terminals.r >> i? >>    More info at :  http://www.neoware.com/products/4000.htmln >> t >>  M > I would also recommend trying Linux. I use it from home to connect with my  N > VMS systems at work.  It does native X11 and works very well, and of course  > the price is free.    O Using a linux box as a display server doesn't gain me anything over using a vmseO box, which is what I am doing now.  I currently use an alphastation in the roledM of the vtx, and all windows from all vms systems are routed to it.  It is thek" only system I have with a monitor.  M What I want is a *dedicated* system, with no disks, small size, good video ontM vrc21, etc.  I just want to turn it on and then begin displaying windows from M other systems, the way I can with the vxt and with the alphastation.  I don't N care what it runs (as long as it is non-billy, for reasons of reliability).  IM don't care whether it loads the software via flash or net, as long as it will 4 do it automatically with no intervention on my part.   -- ,O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxB: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)4O =============================================================================== K Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!! O    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:04:41 GMTv- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)  Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9.10 Message-ID: <3b2e423d.63091921@news.process.com>  L On 17 Jun 2001 07:17:10 CDT, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell) wrote:  R >>> What a stupid thing to do, making such a major change at the last minute. TheyR >>> should be concentrating on fixing bugs in preparation for the released versionO >>> instead of adding new features/functionality.   They certainly shouldn't beOI >>> doing stuff that causes it not to work on people's existing stacks.  0 >> Influence* >>> from the billyworld mindset, no doubt. >>> I Unfortunately, it was also based on incorrect information from us.  Colin=H checked with one of our people several months ago about this, but due toI several factors, bad info was returned to him, and he thought we were allmI set.  Unfortunately, we're not, though Colin and I are working the issue.5   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/T9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/@   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:25:39 -0400e2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsd3 Message-ID: <xIrX6.1547$fi2.48501@news.cpqcorp.net>e  K Actually I asked the same question, and no its is not the CSA membership it E is VMS applications.  I just wanted to start a list here as I get thee# information so you have it as well.e   sue-    : "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message# news:3B2E03F6.17355FC2@bbc.co.uk...c >  >u > Sue Skonetski wrote: >TH > > Just so you know, I am aware of the 5000 number, I just want to make sure wei > > do not miss anyone.u > >t >pD >  Possibly the numbers represent participants in the CSA programme?E > In which case, the products may still be in devvelopment not on theR market?e > E > I don't really know what David Dachetera is trying to prove, excepttL > that he is sadly jobless at present, something that I will be dealing with
 > next month.t > 	 > regardso >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukc > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.' >  >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:01:01 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>/! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applications ' Message-ID: <3B2E5DFD.27B824FF@fsi.net>b   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Sue Skonetski wrote: > P > > Just so you know, I am aware of the 5000 number, I just want to make sure we > > do not miss anyone.o > >u > D >  Possibly the numbers represent participants in the CSA programme?M > In which case, the products may still be in devvelopment not on the market?f > E > I don't really know what David Dachetera is trying to prove, exceptsL > that he is sadly jobless at present, something that I will be dealing with
 > next month.e  G Back in the days when there was such a thing, the only catalogue I ever B saw of applications for VAX/VMS (yeah - that long ago) didn't evenH approach the 1000 mark. After more than a decade and given VMS's loss ofA market penetration, I find that number (5000) rather difficult tot swallow.  F I'd need to see a comprehensive list (hard-copy preferred, but HTML or; PDF will do) of products by vendor by country by continent.r  G Call me "Doubting Thomas" if you will, but if there's much software out8F there for VMS, why is there not more VMS out here in the "real world"?$ ...and, consequently, more VMS jobs?  ! Can you say, "stealth marketing"?a   Sure - I knew you could!   -- o David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:15:10 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsi, Message-ID: <3B2E6147.C374AFA5@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:I > Back in the days when there was such a thing, the only catalogue I everaD > saw of applications for VAX/VMS (yeah - that long ago) didn't even > approach the 1000 mark.   L But there was also the DECUS catalogue which was an extremely powerful assetK to convince folks to choose VMS over some other OS which didn't have such a M healthy worldwide user group with a huge amount of software available throughh it at low cost.l  N Where DECUS (as a whole) failed is to adapt itself to the internet as early asN the early 1990s. One reason was that the library was still a revenue generatorN for some DECUS chapters who didn't want to see the library go on-line for free@ by another chapter since it would cannabalise their own revenus.    K In my opinion, the only remnant of the DECUS library is the VMS freeware CDi! which is now generated by Compaq.a  M A global user group dedicated to VMS would be able to coordinate and pool allbL of the freeware software on VMS and build a catalogue of it that would pointN to the most up-to-date sourses on the net. The software would have no "value",F but the catalogue would be an extremely valuable asset for that group.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:07:58 -0300,) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brE! Subject: Re: OpenVMS ApplicationsOL Message-ID: <OFF3D6DA3B.3786C490-ON03256A6F.006E5FA4@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  $ It is not needed to spend a fortune:  F a) How many  hard/soft contracts does Compaq have with Customers using VMS/OpenVMS systems ?n> b) Does Compaq have the whole list of VMS/OpenVMS systems sold in the last 20 years ?0 c) Use some "students" t o do the hard job ! ! !   Regardsc   FC        C rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) em 18/06/2001 13:57:23H  > Favor responder a rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml      ! Assunto: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsl    
 In articleA <OFAFF7B504.725BE683-ON03256A6F.0058C9BC@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,"* fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  ( > When the OpenVMS Census will begin ??? >N  H How would you propose to measure the OpenVMS population with any sort ofH accuracy, without spending a fortune?  The question is the same for most any other product census.i   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:10:53 -0300u+ From: <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>l! Subject: Re: OpenVMS ApplicationsdL Message-ID: <OF95EF7755.7BDC37F3-ON03256A6F.006EBCF9@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  J Information regarding Oracle Classic under OpenVMS is rare. I asked Oracle USA and.B I received only that agreement between Oracle and Compaq (1 page).     Regt   FC        C rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) em 18/06/2001 14:06:06n  > Favor responder a rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh      ! Assunto: Re: OpenVMS Applicationss    
 In articleA <OF9A12664C.40F343E4-ON03256A6F.0058B41F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  - > Any news about Oracle 9i under OpenVMS ????  >r: > http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001061401.html   Why are you asking me?  I The above URL is a product announcement.  If you are interested in OracleiG on VMS, I think you can find it mentioned in some roadmaps from Compaq.e  H I reported a bit on this after the NYC Diamond forum last month.  OracleH promises to ship the new version on VMS within 90 days from the shipmentH on Unix.  I guess the clock has started.  The Oracle rep said he expectsA it will be more like 60 days for this release.  This has been thedI announced plan for quite a while.  If folks are looking for news to whine ! about, this isn't NEWS, it's old.e  B Some of the join initiatives in this Tru64/Oracle announcement areF supposed to be in the works for VMS/Oracle as well.  I didn't get many details, since I don't Oracle.  E See if you can find Kevin McCoole's presentation from the 22-May-2001uE AlphaServer Diamond Forum in New York City.  Though be warned -- as ItJ posted after the forum, his was the worst, least VMS-friendly presentationJ of the day.  I suspect the problem was the messenger; he did not appear to be very aware of VMS.n   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:47:18 -0400T- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applications0, Message-ID: <3B2E68CD.45FE78D1@videotron.ca>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:H > a) How many  hard/soft contracts does Compaq have with Customers using > VMS/OpenVMS systems ?g  G But Compaq doesn't know about customers still running VMS but no suportmI contracts because they have stable systems with plenty of spare hardware.t    @ > b) Does Compaq have the whole list of VMS/OpenVMS systems sold > in the last 20 years ?  L Compaq has no idea how many of these systems are still in use, how many have been scredded/destroyed.  L My guess would be to conduct the audit based on the license database. Send a2 questionaire to all those in the licence database.  N Note: to Compaq, a PC box maker, the concept of knowing who your customers are is a foreign one.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:21:37 GMTm From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationse' Message-ID: <3B2E70D4.BAF0CB7A@home.nl>a   James.F.Duff@health.net wrote:  $ > susan.skonetski@compaq.com writes: > >Dear Newsgroup, > >1I > >Here is a list of some of our partners I will add more as I find them.: > >c > >Sue > >s > >Advanced Systems Concepts  > >Contact:  jrizzolo@syscon.com > >  > >www.advsyscon.com > >[the rest snipped]f >e> > Wonderful as this list may be, it comes nowhere near the old@ > DEC "VAX/VMS Solutions Source Book" or whatever it was called.= > That thing had ~1000 pages of software and solutions listedB > for VAX/VMS.  I True, I still have a copy The Vax Software Source Book, 5th edition 1988.L. It has 1123 pages The index alone is 91 pages.       >  >f> > I wonder if this list is even maintained any more?  It would> > be a great starting point for Compaq to go and convince some@ > of those companies to port to Alpha (if they haven't already).9 > It would also be an excellent convincer for the ongoing > > validity of OpenVMS as a solution when waved under the PHB's
 > nose :-) >f > Jim  > -- > James.F.Duff@health.net- > Pure personal opinion0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:38:24 -0700I+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>s! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applications ' Message-ID: <3B2E90F0.EA051EA@mmaz.com>    > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:K > > Back in the days when there was such a thing, the only catalogue I evercF > > saw of applications for VAX/VMS (yeah - that long ago) didn't even > > approach the 1000 mark.   P I'm not sure that I would agree with this, I still have half of a two volume setQ (coving Accounting to Healthcare) from 1986 which covers VMS applications, with aPQ write-up that for each application that typically takes a page and this volume islO 987 pages long!  Presuming that from Healthcare to Zoology has just as many VMSnR applications, the question should be if it exceeded the 2000 mark.  Remember, thisK was more than 15 years ago too when a VAX capable of a mind-numbing 6 VUP's.3 (remember the 8600) was a solid six digit purchase.t   Regards,   Barrys   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOr  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028N   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:10:27 -0500p1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>=! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applications ' Message-ID: <3B2EA683.B6299AC5@fsi.net>1   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: >  > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:M > > > Back in the days when there was such a thing, the only catalogue I everlH > > > saw of applications for VAX/VMS (yeah - that long ago) didn't even > > > approach the 1000 mark.g > R > I'm not sure that I would agree with this, I still have half of a two volume setS > (coving Accounting to Healthcare) from 1986 which covers VMS applications, with aqS > write-up that for each application that typically takes a page and this volume isoQ > 987 pages long!  Presuming that from Healthcare to Zoology has just as many VMSeT > applications, the question should be if it exceeded the 2000 mark.  Remember, thisM > was more than 15 years ago too when a VAX capable of a mind-numbing 6 VUP'sd5 > (remember the 8600) was a solid six digit purchase.e  G Y'know, an AS/200 with three RZ40's in a pizza box (does that work?) is-F probably a "bigger", faster config than some VAX installations of that day...   -- 9 David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:29:47 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>>; Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux + Message-ID: <3B2E489A.5469B7F@videotron.ca>y   "Main, Kerry" wrote:D > Ask your DBA's how they would implement Oracle OPS in a multi-siteL > environment ie. all systems requires active-active access to the same dataB > drives. You can shutdown servers at either site transparently to8 > applications without any mid-tier application changes.  L Fine and dandy. But Kerry, how many of you are there in Canada totally ? AreK you *THE* VMS saleperson for Compaq in Canada ? TO me, it seems like CompaqdM has "elected" a token person from each geography to be the VMS champion, gavewC him/her the name of "VMS ambassador" and hopes that that person canv3 singlehandledly prevent further VMS market erosion.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:42:08 GMTe From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>; Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux ' Message-ID: <3B2E679A.8C4187E0@home.nl>i  	 Hi Kerry,i   Thanks for your reply.  L I was only referring to what is known as "classical Oracle", not RdB. I knowH that RdB is regarded by many (including our Oracle staff) as superior toO classical Oracle. But in these sad days IT is mainly politics and commerce, andiL hasn't very much to do with quality anymore. So bye bye RdB says management.L Classical Oracle is a mainstream RDBMS, so we have to move there although itP almost has as many bugs as Windows, And the attitude of Oracle is about the sameK as with M$. "You found a serious bug in Version X ? Please upgrade your 100o3 servers to Version Y, there the problem is solved".s  I And for the moment you're right, VMS (real) multisite clustering is stilltG something no one else can do. But from Tru64 5.2 (or 5.1A) onwards this  advantage may have gone too.  L The problem is quite clear. VMS still has to struggle for its existence withK many companies. getting amputated mainstream software like with Oracle now,iM really doesn't help. And many VMS specific alterations have been removed from=M Oracle already. No Fast IO anymore, and the mailbox communications introduced7P with Oracle 7.3 doesn't improve performance either to put it mildly. If a coupleN of really good VMS system programmers would adapt classicle Oracle to true VMSP software, I'm sure it would be possible to get 25 to 50 % more performance and a lot less bugs.  P I am convinced of the superior qualities of VMS, no doubt about it. But is seemsN there are quite a lot of IT managers who just want to do what everyone else isO doing. Don't step out of the line, get a Sun with Unix. Convincing that kind ofcF managers with amputated classical Oracle to stay with VMS, is virtualy impossible I'm afraid.   Regards,   Dirk           "Main, Kerry" wrote:   > Dirk,i >pJ > >>> Why should we use VMS with a Oracle backend database if the frontendJ > application is on Tru64 ?? (or another OS ?) What would be the advantage > ??<< > N > Availability for one if you are using Oracle OPS. Also, if using Oracle Rdb,% > it is cluster ready out of the box.  > D > Ask your DBA's how they would implement Oracle OPS in a multi-siteL > environment ie. all systems requires active-active access to the same dataB > drives. You can shutdown servers at either site transparently to8 > applications without any mid-tier application changes. > N > While multi-site may not be an issues for you right now, if you are planningL > any type of major server consolidation projects (very common right now) orM > planning any type of eBusiness environment where the data needs to be up to C > date on all servers at all times, then the increased availability-5 > requirement will become much more important to you.3 >0L > [Of course, replication is always an option if the risks are an acceptable > cost tradeoff] >g
 > Regards, >4 > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantc > Compaq Canada Inc. > Professional Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660i > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >e > -----Original Message-----' > From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]L > Sent: June 17, 2001 6:42 PM. > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2= > Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and LinuxT >  > "Main, Kerry" wrote: >a > > JF - > >nC > > >>>> Of course, if Oracle9i isn't available on VMS... well...<<  > > 2 > > Check out: (Oracle 9i, Oracle Apps db support)C > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/openvms_sod.htmlpL > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/LEtter_of_commitment.html >iL > The second link does raise a question: Why should we use VMS with a OracleL > backend database if the frontend application is on Tru64 ?? (or another OS > ?)  > What would be the advantage ?? > N > The database is not the most critical part, the application is. The frontend > isK > the line of attack for hackers etc. And I still don't know what we can dos > withJ > Oracle and VMS in the future. Even our Oracle support group can't figure > thisE > out. Oracle developer 2000 is an almost retired product, and Oracle  > applicationsK > will disappear.  Running just the database on VMS is a bit pointless, thefL > applications are much more important. And it is much cheaper to support anL > environment with one operating system than an environment with two or more > operating systems. >  > >P > >lN > > re: clustering terms... Personally, I might say "the best UNIX clustering"N > > vs "the best NT clustering" vs the "best clustering" for OpenVMS, but thatK > > would likely start another long series of threads..so I won't say it ..b > >a > > :-), > >t > > Regards, > >  > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultant  > > Compaq Canada Inc. > > Professional Servicesl > > Voice: 613-592-4660i > > Fax  :  819-772-7036  > > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com > >t > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca] > > Sent: June 15, 2001 1:22 PMu > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > > Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linuxi > >) > > Alan Greig wrote:bD > > > increase," said Mike Winkler, executive vice president, GlobalE > > > Business Units, Compaq Computer Corporation. "The Oracle9i RealSJ > > > Application Clusters and Compaq's Tru64 UNIX offering truly reflectsB > > > the strength of our industry lead in clustering technology." > > M > > Since VMS clustering is still far ahead of True64's, whenever some Compaq M > > employee wants to use the word "leadership" in the context of clustering,* > he5 > > should be forced to use "VMS" instead of "Tru64".n > >s< > > Of course, if Oracle9i isn't available on VMS... well...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:58:54 GMT  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>; Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux,' Message-ID: <3B2E6B7E.BAB6365E@home.nl>z  	 Hi Keith,p  M It seems you're lucky, you still have IT managers who know their job. And I'm3T convinced VMS/RdB is unbeatable in quality compared with any classical Oracle setup.T But the managers don't want to hear that, They just want to do what everyone else is doing, and what is fashionable.a  K Of course I don't want to imply that the database is less critical than themR application. But most database problems arise from poor applications, not from theR database software as such. That is why I am saying that there is hardly a point inS running a classicle Oracle database on a VMS system when you have a Tru64 (or otherhO Unix) frontend. The qualities of VMS will not show in such a configuration, thel$ applications should also run on VMS.   Regards,   Dirk   Keith Cayemberg wrote:  O > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3B2D3226.5304B793@home.nl>...  > > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > >n
 > > > JF - > > >bE > > > >>>> Of course, if Oracle9i isn't available on VMS... well...<<l > > >e4 > > > Check out: (Oracle 9i, Oracle Apps db support)E > > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/openvms_sod.htmliN > > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/oracle/LEtter_of_commitment.html > >eN > > The second link does raise a question: Why should we use VMS with a OracleQ > > backend database if the frontend application is on Tru64 ?? (or another OS ?)r" > > What would be the advantage ?? >EI > In the End - only you and your colleages can answer that question. But,2I > please establish your needed level of resource management, security andnO > sophistication, and inform yourself of the probably huge differences in these/C > qualities offered by the different platforms you are considering.  >tS > > The database is not the most critical part, the application is. The frontend is R > > the line of attack for hackers etc. And I still don't know what we can do withQ > > Oracle and VMS in the future. Even our Oracle support group can't figure this T > > out. Oracle developer 2000 is an almost retired product, and Oracle applicationsM > > will disappear.  Running just the database on VMS is a bit pointless, theqN > > applications are much more important. And it is much cheaper to support anN > > environment with one operating system than an environment with two or more > > operating systems. >rF > Do you have only one application/interface to your database? If yourE > database is not as critical as your application, how useful is your-L > application if the the database is corrupt or unavailable? In my 2 decadesP > of experience with mission-critical databases in several companies, especiallyI > MC Databases usually tend have a multitude of applications, departmentsnM > and even other databases linking to them around the clock. A major customerlK > of ours (NOT Firestone) uses OpenVMS and Oracle Rdb to manufacture tires. E > They have c.a. 150 VMS Systems with c.a. 50 Rdb Databases for stock H > management, production planning, manufacture, quality control. Each ofG > these databases serve data to at least a dozen other systems (also tonD > external financial systems) or each other. A dataflow chart of the< > Databases and Applications looks like a spider web. If oneF > Database were to go down, it has nearly an immediate knock-on effectE > to the next systems. We have greatly benefitted from the ultra-highR@ > security and availability of OpenVMS and Rdb, and I know of atJ > least one other competing tire manufacture (much bigger) which chose theL > OpenVMS/Rdb dream team as well. If these systems had the planned/unplannedM > availability of an eBay, the tire company would probably loose enough money N > in one year to pay for all the DP systems in a factory. This hasn't happenedO > in spite of the SNAFU characteristics of many client applications implementedeM > on the Windows platform. An well designed OS/DB Backend Security and Backup I > Implementation should survive even intentionally destructive clients orsK > even terrorists and disasters (real-world instances of VMS/rdb doing justn, > this have already been alluded to in COV). >cI > For us, it would be cheaper to have just one platform, ONLY if that onew' > platform was OpenVMS with Oracle Rdb.o >dB > By the way, why use the the best mission-critical OS and not theM > best mission-critical DB for your sacred data as well. Oracle Rdb continueseO > to lead the way in mission-critical DB design, showing Oracle Classic and OPS-M > how Extreme MC VLDB should be done, just as VMS continues to show Tru64 howz8 > management, resource-sharing-scheduling, security, and. > COMPLETEly-Shared clustering should be done. >rI > Based on just the RAC model presented by Oracle, I don't have any worryoE > that it provides any viable alternative to OpenVMS/Rdb in our case.mG > Pushing a clustered DB lock-management up to the application level ofsL > disparate systems (not offering these mechanisms natively) is not going to: > give the other operating systems fully-shared clusteringB > or improve the OS/application stability or availability. InsteadH > it tends to lead to what happens to trees when you build too much intoG > the higher branches, it tends to make the whole thing more top-heavy,aF > complex, and brittle, and the branches (or even the whole tree) moreG > likely to break off. Such basic qualities as security and reliability ; > must be built by design (or long-term evolution) from the < > base up. Computer Science and Software Engineering as wellK > still have a great deal to learn from nature, just as applied engineeringa > also continues to do.e >r > Keith Cayembergn > Senior Consultante > ICA - Hannover, Germany1 >   >   Semi-Nonstandard Disclaimer:7 >   Any non-official claims concerning my semi-officials. >   opinions are hereby officially disclaimed.4 >   (and no I didn't steal this one from Yogi Berra)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:23:59 -0500t+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> F Subject: RE: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of MosesL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F88@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developert Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");? 't  u   > -----Original Message-----@ > From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG]  7 > In article <3b2e309b$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" x/ > <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:   > > >Does this protocol entail frequent insertions of the token  > "like"?  The: > >protocol used by both my 24 yo and 18 yo sure seems to.  8 > Precisely along with other such words inserted in the  > protocol every 3rd= > or 4th word.  Thus, the S/N ratio is only slightly greater n > than 50%.  In39 > addition, the protocol is always first person singular.   K Look for an enhanced adaptive protocol sometime before late 2006.  The same D revision may fix some precedence/scheduling priority bugs as well ;)   Regards,   Chris    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 03:15:08 GMT $ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>F Subject: Re: OT: I'm just a "pup"!  Was:Re: DEC vs IBM, story of Moses) Message-ID: <3B2EC440.34AEBCF0@wi.rr.com>a  M "Like" is actually a "parity word".  It serves the same function as a "parityo bit"I or the parity data on a RAID 5 container.  By inserting a "like" into thee sentenceI on a regular basis, the transmitter and receiver stay in synch....like yaf know?-  
 -Scott :^)   Brian Tillman wrote:  % > >It's not a high level protocol butdK > >at least it's not in some encrypted and coded protocol like that used myn > ther > >teenager. >yI > Does this protocol entail frequent insertions of the token "like"?  The-9 > protocol used by both my 24 yo and 18 yo sure seems to.  > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comiC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com ? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevents> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:42:52 GMTg) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)oD Subject: Re: Pathworks or AdvancedServer for Hobbyist? Alternatives?1 Message-ID: <3b2e74cd.586313704@news.wcc.govt.nz>a  # Yep, one of those wonderful catchesa  C Pathworks is now generally included as part of the NAS license. Noto. sure how this applies to the Hobbysit license.  C BUT, you need other licenses in order to share devices from the VMS A System. These are further complicated by the style of license you A select, and that is determined during the Pathworks installation.   ? Pathworks can be used to do things like external authentication)" without these additional licenses.  2 We have pathworks, I've not yet played with Samba.  @ I've not worked with NFS recently but do remember having variousD connection issues with it. That was some time ago now though. Always5 seemed to be the remote client, some unixy thing! ;-)n   Rob.? On 18 Jun 2001 14:46:03 GMT, roland.haider@at.bosch.com (Roland  Haider) wrote:   >Hello,f > = >I finally started integrating my VMS Computers with the resto2 >of my small home-network ( HP-UX, WinNT, Win311).C >Therefore the preferred way would be a SMB server e.g. Pathworks 69 >or Advanced Server.@ >Though I couldn't find a proper license on the list of layered C >products included in the hobbyist license, I gave it a try, hopingt( >it would be included in the OS license. >DA >Installed AdvancedServer on the Alphastation, configured it as am+ >Primary Domain Controller and fired it up.c > 6 >1st Test: Great! Clients authenticate to the server. < >Then connect to a share. Nee! Many popups saying "Unable to >obtain license for client." >a  >So therefore my first question: >a. >Is this (as I presume) the expected behavior?: >(Or did I make a fatal mistake somewhere along the line?) > C >Second: What are the pros and cons for the 2 alternatives (I know)o >Samba and NFS ? >  >Any feedback welcome! >d >Regards, Roland >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:13:27 -0500-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>0D Subject: Re: Pathworks or AdvancedServer for Hobbyist? Alternatives?' Message-ID: <3B2EA737.BE41176C@fsi.net>D   Rob Buxton wrote:h > % > Yep, one of those wonderful catchese > E > Pathworks is now generally included as part of the NAS license. NotB0 > sure how this applies to the Hobbysit license. [snip]   How 'bout a hobbystand license?    --   David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 05:01:10 GMTl4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>2 Subject: Re: Photo in CETS2001 Registration packet< Message-ID: <q0BX6.1460$wU6.1976818@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  D "Bradford J. Hamilton" <hamilton@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:3y14cQUgrLhT@eisner.encompasserve.org...y > Hi,t >lI > Anyone notice the picture on p. 8 of the CETS2001 registration package?y >oH > It looks like a differently-angled shot of the now-infamous V7.3 cover photo.5 > Notice the SUN terminal in the center of the photo.o >e  / As SKC subsribers know, here's the Real Deal...   K And in the "Oops" department, sharp-eyed OpenVMS V7.3 customers may note an H interesting graphic on the OS media kit. Depicted thereon is a gentlemanL staring intently at a battery of monitors. The "Guy With Computer" is prettyK standard OS marketing stuff; problem is, the artisans in Compaq's corporate K graphics department chose an image of Sun Microsystems monitors. A gaffe of J Galactic proportions? Perhaps not. After all, DII-COE support is coming toH OpenVMS, and Compaq may well be stressing the fact that the Solaris-likeK APIs and other COE interoperability adjuncts will render it much easier for G customers and ISVs to port their Unix apps to OpenVMS. Yeah, that's the  ticket!    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 16:06:31 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)b$ Subject: Re: POSTs via SSL to Apache3 Message-ID: <6BXww7Al3zXu@eisner.encompasserve.org>n   Thanks for the perl program.    A If I'm reading this right it is not sending stuff to a webserver, @ but parsing the query string on the webserver.  I already have aA collection of programs to do that.   I'm looking for a program too9 send POST requests _to_ a webserver so that I can test mye existing CGI stuff.o  ] In article <3B2D37BE.E0901746@bellsouth.net>, Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> writes:dB > If you have installed PERL and MOD_PERL, in your PERL executable. > directory place this file called printenv.pl > / > ===============<  cut here >=================o% >   use CGI qw(:standard escapeHTML);a >   use VMS::DCLsym; >  >     tie %syms, VMS::DCLsym;r >  > sub cgiparse {+ >   if ($ENV{'REQUEST_METHOD'} eq "POST") {S3 >     read(STDIN, $buffer, $ENV{'CONTENT_LENGTH'});0 >   } else {% >     $buffer = $ENV{'QUERY_STRING'};a >   }g0 >   local(@query_strings) = split("&", $buffer);! >   foreach $q (@query_strings) {o >     $q =~ s/\+/ /g;2% >     ($attr, $val) = split("=", $q);e >     $val =~ s/%/\n%/g;# >         print "$attr = $val<br>";F >     local($tmpval);o! >     foreach (split("\n",$val)){n >       if(m:%(\w\w):){ # >         local($binval) = hex($1);s) >         if(($binval>0)&&($binval<256)){.0 >           local($htmlval) = pack("C",$binval); >           s/%$1/$htmlval/; >         }t	 >       }i >       $tmpval .= $_; >     }   >     $parseit{$attr} = $tmpval; >   }V
 >   %parseit;e > }a > & > print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; > &cgiparse(); > $ > while (($key, $val) = each %ENV) {$ >         print "$key = $val<BR>\n"; >  > }c/ > ===============<end file>====================  > G > This will produce all of the environment variables that your perl/cgid. > will see.  My MOD_PERL points to a directory > ) > Alias /bin/ "/apache$root/htdocs/perl/"  > <Location /bin>o >     SetHandler perl-script" >     PerlHandler Apache::Registry >     Options ExecCGIn >     Allow from all >     PerlSendHeader Ons
 > </Location>c > / > your post would look like:  <form method=postr/ > action="https://your.sys.com/bin/printenv.pl>s >  > Michael Austin > DBA Consultant >  > Marty Kuhrt wrote: > A >> Does anyone have an example 3GL program that can emulate POSTseE >> via SSL to the Apache (CSWS 1.0-1) webserver?   I'm trying to testuB >> out some forms I have created to see if they respond correctly.D >> I can do them manually by calling up the cgi page and filling outD >> the blanks, but I'd like to automate it to do regression testing. >>H >> I'm running CSWS 1.0-1 (Apache 1.3.12, mod_ssl/2.6.2, OpenSSL/0.9.5),> >> Multinet 4.3A-X, and VMS 7.2-1 on an Alphaserver 200 4/233. >>! >> Any help would be appreciated,a >> Marty >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:25:36 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e$ Subject: Re: POSTs via SSL to Apache, Message-ID: <3B2E63B8.7BC7CDE1@videotron.ca>   Marty Kuhrt wrote:C > collection of programs to do that.   I'm looking for a program to.; > send POST requests _to_ a webserver so that I can test my  > existing CGI stuff.l      L Kermit does the job nicely for regular HTTP: but I am not sure if it has the bility to do HTTPS:e   What about Lynx ?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:37:38 +0200e2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)$ Subject: Re: POSTs via SSL to Apache; Message-ID: <3b2ed712.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>e  , Marty Kuhrt (kuhrt@encompasserve.org) wrote:B > I'm looking for a program to send POST requests _to_ a webserver+ > so that I can test my existing CGI stuff.e  / Modeled after the examples of the LWP cookbook:6     #!perl -w 
   use strict; B   use LWP::UserAgent;  # SSL capable if Crypt::SSLeay if installed   use URI::URL;n  (   my $url = 'https://somewhere/foo/bar';  ,   my %form = (search => 'www', errors => 0);8   my $curl = url('https:'); # create an empty URL object   $curl->query_form(%form);a  1   my $request = new HTTP::Request 'POST' => $url; >   $request->content_type('application/x-www-form-urlencoded');K   $request->content($curl->equery); # %form content as escaped query stringf     my $ua = new LWP::UserAgent;(   my $response = $ua->request($request);   print $response->as_string;    cu,S   Martin -- uF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.delF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:10:52 GMT - From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>n& Subject: Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40s/ Message-ID: <3B2E441F.5879BCF@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>t   Robert Deininger wrote:/- > I'm not familiar with that SCSI controller./  O It's an oddball which can only be set up using a PC, a PC program, and 2 serialeN comm lines. The controller inside the RA3000 is the HSZ22, and I have the dualP controller option.  These controllers can each handle 2 host "ports" (Ultra wideL diff) and 2 SCSI storage busses (ultra wide SE) called "channels".  With theO rackmount version of the RA3000, you can control 4 shelves of ultrawide disks. nN The SWCC PC application shows boxes in the Storage Window for 32 spindles, andM it allows me to set a SCSI LUN for each "virtual disk" of 0-15.  If I ask foreP LUN 0 on host port 0 (the default), my device shows up on VMS as dkc0.  If I askO for LUN 0 on host port 1, that same device shows up in VMS as dkc100.  If I ask J for LUN 8-15 on any disk, this does not show up on VMS as dkc-anything (asJ currently configured).  The SWCC application does warn that some operating( systems cannot handle SCSI LUNS above 7.  E > Have you looked at the Guidlines for Cluster Configurations manual?s   Oh yes!   > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6318/6318PRO.HTML > 8 > In particular, see table 4-6; appendix A (esp. A.4.1).  P Table A-6?  This shows some console environment variables for SCSI controllers.  Is that the table you meant?  K Section A.4.1 talks about numbers of SCSI devices, and makes an interestingyO observation about a "second level of device addressing" called LUNs, of which 8sH are available per device ID.  Now if I understand the words and they areH correct, then my differential SCSI host bus includes only 4 device ID's:   KZPBA in host 1 has ID 7 KSPBA in host 2 has ID 6 HSZ22 host port 0 has ID 0 HSZ22 host port 1 has ID 1  O Then each HSZ22 host port could present to the KZPBAs at most 8 devices throughSO SCSI LUNs, for 16 total on two host ports.  I see no caveats about wide busses,,N and I think the manual might have errors.  But if the SCSI LUN max is really 8P even for wide busses, then I cannot see more than 16 JBOD disks or raidsets fromP any operating system, period.  If, on the other hand, the manual is wrong and itN is possible to see 16 SCSI LUNs per host port on a wide bus, then something isM amiss with my configuration.  The SWCC application implies that at least somedO operating systems and host adapters can handle 16 SCSI LUNs, because it can seti  them that way without a problem.   > What kind of disks?    RZ1DD-VW RZ1ED-VW RZ1FC-VW   > Which storageworks shelves?    BA36R-RC  G > SCSI.  Your KZPBA adapters must be the -CB variety for multihost use.yF > Perhaps you have to configure the adapters to enable wide operation?  N I have the KZPBA-CY adapters.  They seem to be configured by default to 16 bitM operation and inhibiting SCSI bus resets, but they sure don't act like either O have been set.  I see these values are set correctly by examining the output oft  the Alpha BIOS EEROMCFG program.  L > With everything set to operate in wide SCSI mode, it looks like you shouldJ > be able to use 14 disks on a shared SCSI bus.  (14 disks + 2 IDs for the3 > SCSI adapters uses up the 16 available SCSI IDs.)   P I think this is true of SCSI IDs, but this does not limit devices until you have7 exhausted all SCSI LUNs on both controller IDs as well.e    - JBl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:00:40 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40sL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1906010100450001@user-2iveb3m.dialup.mindspring.com>  @ In article <3B2E441F.5879BCF@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote:h   > Robert Deininger wrote:e/ > > I'm not familiar with that SCSI controller.  > J > It's an oddball which can only be set up using a PC, a PC program, and 2 serial
 > comm lines.e   Yuck!n  C  The controller inside the RA3000 is the HSZ22, and I have the duale > controller option.    > > These controllers can each handle 2 host "ports" (Ultra wideN > diff) and 2 SCSI storage busses (ultra wide SE) called "channels".  With theP > rackmount version of the RA3000, you can control 4 shelves of ultrawide disks.  I So you have _two_ HSZ22 controllers in the RA3000, and each of them has 2  SCSI busses, and 2 host ports?    P > The SWCC PC application shows boxes in the Storage Window for 32 spindles, andO > it allows me to set a SCSI LUN for each "virtual disk" of 0-15.  If I ask forlI > LUN 0 on host port 0 (the default), my device shows up on VMS as dkc0. r If I askH > for LUN 0 on host port 1, that same device shows up in VMS as dkc100.  If I askL > for LUN 8-15 on any disk, this does not show up on VMS as dkc-anything (asL > currently configured).  The SWCC application does warn that some operating* > systems cannot handle SCSI LUNS above 7. > G > > Have you looked at the Guidlines for Cluster Configurations manual?c > 	 > Oh yes!m > @ > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6318/6318PRO.HTML > > : > > In particular, see table 4-6; appendix A (esp. A.4.1). > D > Table A-6?  This shows some console environment variables for SCSI
 controllers. n > Is that the table you meant?  G No, I meant table 4-6.  I attempted to list various things, but my lists was too horizonatal...    M > Section A.4.1 talks about numbers of SCSI devices, and makes an interesting.I > observation about a "second level of device addressing" called LUNs, of  which 8eJ > are available per device ID.  Now if I understand the words and they areJ > correct, then my differential SCSI host bus includes only 4 device ID's: >  > KZPBA in host 1 has ID 7 > KSPBA in host 2 has ID 6  4 And these are connected to the same SCSI bus, right?   > HSZ22 host port 0 has ID 0 > HSZ22 host port 1 has ID 1  H Ok, there are two many possible configurations for me to guess.  Can you' draw a picture of the connections?  :-)m    I > Then each HSZ22 host port could present to the KZPBAs at most 8 devices  through-I > SCSI LUNs, for 16 total on two host ports.  I see no caveats about widet busses,s  G Well, you'd need wide busses to get 16 IDs/bus.  But if this controllert4 presents LUNs instead of IDs, wide might NOT matter.  F I wonder if there might be some relevant (mumble) about HSZ allocation( classes here.  Haven't done that myself.  P > and I think the manual might have errors.  But if the SCSI LUN max is really 8D > even for wide busses, then I cannot see more than 16 JBOD disks or
 raidsets fromiE > any operating system, period.  If, on the other hand, the manual iss wrong and itP > is possible to see 16 SCSI LUNs per host port on a wide bus, then something isO > amiss with my configuration.  The SWCC application implies that at least someeI > operating systems and host adapters can handle 16 SCSI LUNs, because it  can set " > them that way without a problem. >  > > What kind of disks?  > 
 > RZ1DD-VW
 > RZ1ED-VW
 > RZ1FC-VW   Ok, they're all wide...S     > > Which storageworks shelves?  > 
 > BA36R-RC  < Don't know that one in particular.  I guess it must be wide.  oI > > SCSI.  Your KZPBA adapters must be the -CB variety for multihost use. H > > Perhaps you have to configure the adapters to enable wide operation? > ! > I have the KZPBA-CY adapters.  c  G Better find out what that -CY means.  VMS has peculiar requirements forwF multi-host SCSI controllers.  It's pickier than Tru64, for example.  ID think one of the requirements is that the controller support "target" mode".  There are probably others.  C Your hardware does seem to be newer than the cluster config manual.t  1 > They seem to be configured by default to 16 biteO > operation and inhibiting SCSI bus resets, but they sure don't act like eitheraG > have been set.  I see these values are set correctly by examining theh	 output ofn" > the Alpha BIOS EEROMCFG program. > N > > With everything set to operate in wide SCSI mode, it looks like you shouldL > > be able to use 14 disks on a shared SCSI bus.  (14 disks + 2 IDs for the5 > > SCSI adapters uses up the 16 available SCSI IDs.)g > I > I think this is true of SCSI IDs, but this does not limit devices until  you have9 > exhausted all SCSI LUNs on both controller IDs as well.M  F Are you failing to see the devices at the alpha console, or in VMS, orH both?    There's a note there somewhere that some consoles can't display devices with non-zero LUNs.g  H I still think it would be useful to post the console SHOW DEVICE output,E and the VMS SHOW DEVICE D output.  And probably whatever that icky PCuB controller console shows as well.  I probably won't understand the' details, but someone in the group will.i    B I just scanned the V7.3 release notes.  This may be Very Bad News:  ? 7.2 Restriction: Parallel SCSI Support for Logical Unit Numbersn   V7.2  K OpenVMS supports up to eight Logical Unit Numbers (LUNs) per target ID on aI parallel SCSI bus.N The SCSI-2 standard is limited to eight LUNs, but the SCSI-3 standard recentlyL increased to 64 LUNs. The HSZ80 is the only supported device that implementsM more than eight LUNs (it supports 32 LUNs per target ID). This feature cannot-K be used in the current release of OpenVMS. LUN values on OpenVMS must be inD the range 0-7.  F The section hasn't been updated for V7.3, so I suspect the restrictionJ still applies.  Maybe you'll have to wait for an update that provides more hardware support?e  E BTW, does the VMS SPD list the RA3000 and HSZ22 as supported devices?u   -- p Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 14:49:55 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)// Subject: Re: Registration for CETS2001 -- when? 3 Message-ID: <cHVK4d$R5X0R@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  [ In article <3B2A1EDA.419C5F0B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:pG > I just discovered last night that none of my session submissions were.? > accepted. So, I'll not be seeing you all at this year's show.t  + Why would they reject all of your sessions?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:44:49 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>P/ Subject: Re: Registration for CETS2001 -- when? & Message-ID: <3B2E5A31.BB9FE46@fsi.net>   Bob Kaplow wrote:  > ] > In article <3B2A1EDA.419C5F0B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:oI > > I just discovered last night that none of my session submissions wereiA > > accepted. So, I'll not be seeing you all at this year's show.f > - > Why would they reject all of your sessions?S  G Let's face it - I'm not the most popular character in the OVMS world...e   ...from RM on down.    -- t David J. Dachterat dba DJE SystemsV http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:30:16 GMTs& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>/ Subject: Re: Registration for CETS2001 -- when?d9 Message-ID: <sxtX6.21809$1f4.3027697@typhoon1.ba-dsg.net>i  I 1) David's "popularity" has nothing to do with the status of his sessions-  9 2) I have sent David Email and he has NOT responded to ite  ? 3) He is working with what appears to be incomplete informationg    < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message  news:3B2E5A31.BB9FE46@fsi.net... > Bob Kaplow wrote:e > > ? > > In article <3B2A1EDA.419C5F0B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"r <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:nK > > > I just discovered last night that none of my session submissions were_C > > > accepted. So, I'll not be seeing you all at this year's show.t > ></ > > Why would they reject all of your sessions?< >uI > Let's face it - I'm not the most popular character in the OVMS world...  >r > ...from RM on down.e >r > -- > David J. Dachterai > dba DJE Systems= > http://www.djesys.com/ >=< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/V >:H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >fB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >RH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:35:47 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>$ Subject: Re: Secured FTPB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010618123523.03283da8@ntbsod.psccos.com>  K SCP, using SSH2, will be in the next versions of both Multinet and TCPware.i  / At 11:46 AM 6/18/2001, John Eisenschmidt wrote:"J >Has anyone mentioned SCP yet? It's the only utility to get me to kick my L >FTP habit. It's based on SSH, and there is a port to x86/win32, Unix, etc. I >You can script it as well, it accepts wild cards. I use pscp (the win32  J >port) to copy files to and from my Unix boxes all the time. I don't know A >if anyone has ported it to VMS, but if they haven't they should.h >wA > >>> "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> 06/18/2001 1:44:22 PM >>> < >At 11:28 AM 6/18/2001, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:F > >In article <ShJW6.84510$DG1.13940572@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>, "Dave, > >Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> writes:L > > >It is an option, but it will make things a bit more complicated.  I wasF > > >really hoping to have that SSL-FTP!  I'll have to re-think a few 
 > things, buts& > > >should be able to make that work. > >n. > >How about running ssh with port forwarding?H > >I haven't looked into it, but my understanding is that while it isn't& > >transparent, but not opaque either. >?M >To forward a port, you must be able to predict it.  Most FTP implementations L >use a known port for the control channel, but the data ports are random and >therefore unpredictable.l >  >a >------tJ >+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+J >| Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |J >| Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |J >| Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |J >| http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |J >+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+eI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |tI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |-I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |.I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+3   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:08:16 +1000aB From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.ssppaammffree.com>, Subject: Re: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.33 Message-ID: <ZCyX6.1561$fi2.49352@news.cpqcorp.net>h  H TCPIP$HOST is created by TCPIP$CONFIG, but you must populate it yourself with commands similar to:   A     $ tcpip set host "myhost"/alias="allmine"/address=10.10.10.10b  A Alternately, you can take a UNIX hosts file and convert it using:l  ,     $ tcpip convert/vms  host unix_hosts.txt   Matt.f    . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEGECMAA.tom@kednos.com.../J > Best way to set up TCPIP$HOST?  Ran TCPIP$CONFIG, but that didn't do it. >s > Objective: > 1.SMTP > 2.POPa > 3.BIND > 4. Anything else   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:53:24 -0700 ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: RE: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.39 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEHNCMAA.tom@kednos.com>   G I have no problem doing this, I have done it a number of times (on unixeK systems), but the config is fully capable of accomplishing this task, which-
 it should do.a   > -----Original Message-----I > From: Matt Muggeridge [mailto:Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.ssppaammffree.com] % > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 7:08 PM8 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como. > Subject: Re: setting up tcpip 5.1 on AXP 7.3 >t >SJ > TCPIP$HOST is created by TCPIP$CONFIG, but you must populate it yourself > with commands similar to:l >sC >     $ tcpip set host "myhost"/alias="allmine"/address=10.10.10.10  >tC > Alternately, you can take a UNIX hosts file and convert it using:r >i. >     $ tcpip convert/vms  host unix_hosts.txt >  > Matt.h >e >.0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 > news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEGECMAA.tom@kednos.com... L > > Best way to set up TCPIP$HOST?  Ran TCPIP$CONFIG, but that didn't do it. > >  > > Objective:
 > > 1.SMTP	 > > 2.POPo
 > > 3.BIND > > 4. Anything else >  >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:45:26 -0500nC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> ) Subject: sigaction() bug in Compaq C 6.4?wI Message-ID: <craig.berry-F6DBB3.22452618062001@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>n  F Actually it's probably the C RTL rather than the compiler itself, but : here's the environment in which I encountered the problem:  * Compaq C V6.4-005 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1   ( In the docs to sigaction() located here:  F <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/5763p043.htm#index_x_1261>  H we are told that some signals cannot be trapped and you'll get an error G if you try.  Specifically, the return value of the function will be -1 eD and errno will be set to EINVAL if "The sig argument is not a valid H signal number. Or an attempt was made to ignore or supply a handler for + the SIGKILL, SIGSTOP, and SIGCONT signals."   H So, if I attempt to supply a handler to SIGKILL, it should stop me, but 5 it doesn't, as this little test program demonstrates:2   $ type sigtest.c #include <stdio.h> #include <signal.h>c   void my_action_routine(int);   main() { >     struct sigaction my_action = { &my_action_routine, 0, 0 };G     int status = sigaction(SIGKILL, &my_action, (struct sigaction *)0);t0     printf("The return status is %d\n", status);'     perror("What's the error, if any");  }e   void my_action_routine(int x)r {          printf("In handler\n");, }    $ cc sigtest $ link sigtest
 $ run sigtestp The return status is 0! What's the error, if any: error 0e  F If I build the exact same test program with the gcc-based compiler on C Mac OS X (the only Unix flavor I have handy), I get the documented 1# behavior (return value -1, EINVAL):m   % cc -o sigtest sigtest.c  % ./sigtest  The return status is -1Z* What's the error, if any: Invalid argument % cc -v ; Reading specs from /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/2.95.2/specseB Apple Computer, Inc. version gcc-926, based on gcc version 2.95.2  19991024 (release)  H So, unless I'm being especially dense (a not unprecedented phenomenon), E the Compaq C RTL is failing to put its money where its documentation o? is, and I'd guess that the ANSI standard probably requires the c documented behavior as well.  C BTW, I am quite aware of the fact that the test program doesn't do eD anything useful.  It is a massively simplified example of code that E needs to take any signal and say "No can do" politely if in fact the  B signal cannot be trapped.  Also, BTW, I'm mucking about with open G source software on a hobbyist system, thus no support contract, thus a L? newsgroup post rather than an SPR (or whatever they're called).-  / If anyone can confirm or deny my analysis, TIA.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:07:01 -0500 * From: "Sundaram P" <sundaramp@hotmail.com> Subject: TCL- C in Open VMS33 Message-ID: <sQvX6.1560$fi2.49080@news.cpqcorp.net>B   Hi,cJ    I am trying to write a simple c program which will create and use a tclK interpreter.(source TCL and the TK toolkit - John Ousterhout ).I am able tos6 compile and run the program successfully in Tru64Unix.E    But i'm not able to find out which libraries to use for Linking ineI VMS.Can somebody please help me out.Specifying the exact commands will be  really appreciated.         The code is given below.      #include <stdio.h> #include <tcl.h>  " int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {         Tcl_Interp *interp;t         int code;c           if (argc != 2) {7                 fprintf(stderr, "Wrong # arguments: ");3>                 fprintf(stderr, "should be \"%s fileName\"\n",)                                 argv[0]);t                 return(1);	         }   $         interp = Tcl_CreateInterp();-         code = Tcl_EvalFile(interp, argv[1]); #         if (*interp->result != 0) {v/                 printf("%s\n", interp->result);U	         }          if (code != TCL_OK) {u                 return(1);	         }U         return(0); }s   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 18:45:59 -05001 From: claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)g Subject: Re: TCL- C in Open VMSNO Message-ID: <A4DCF25AFC973C6C.6998D1FB39FCA6A7.4D807644B06E9D55@lp.airnews.net>a  3 In article <sQvX6.1560$fi2.49080@news.cpqcorp.net>,a) Sundaram P <sundaramp@hotmail.com> wrote:  >Hi,K >   I am trying to write a simple c program which will create and use a tclsL >interpreter.(source TCL and the TK toolkit - John Ousterhout ).I am able to7 >compile and run the program successfully in Tru64Unix. F >   But i'm not able to find out which libraries to use for Linking inJ >VMS.Can somebody please help me out.Specifying the exact commands will be >really appreciated. 			. 			. 			. You raise several issues.,  : Dr. Ousterhout's book is an old one.  While many of us are: quite fond of it, it better reflects the "Tcl spirit" than: it does the current state of Tcl practice.  This might re-5 sult in confusion for someone just starting with Tcl.s  < Tcl's OpenVMS port is maintained rather casually.  More pre-0 cisely, the people working on it have many other9 responsibilities, and are not in a position to be rapidly  responsive.w  > I don't currently have access to an OpenVMS host.  I *believe*< the library you want is tcllib.lib.  Finding "the exact com-: mands", though, is likely to be a bit of an adventure.  We, can come up with more details, if necessary.  ; How does it happen that you want to embed a Tcl interpreters< in a C-coded program?  Does a executable interpreter invoked1 from the command-line not meet your requirements?a --    " Cameron Laird <claird@NeoSoft.com>! Business:  http://www.Phaseit.nett8 Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:00:58 GMTf) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)o+ Subject: Re: UCX problem - printing? other?t1 Message-ID: <3b2e790e.587402440@news.wcc.govt.nz>n  A Quite often triggered if you have PC's and VMS accessing the sameW printers directly.  C PC app grabs the printer and the Telnet Symbiont can't get it untile the PC lets go.c  B If you're not getting problems you can prevent the Opcom messages.  F $       define/system/exec      tcpip$telnetsym_no_opcom        "true"F $       define/system/exec      ucx$telnetsym_no_opcom          "true"   Depending on the UCX version.u  3 I've got both configured to reduce the opcom noise.sD I've got other utilities to see if print queues start to grow or I'm? getting any failed print jobs ( we use /retain=error on queues)e   HTH    Rob.        / On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:23:38 -0400, Chuck Choppe <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote:o  H >I'm seeing that the operator.log file on one particular system is beingD >flooded with messages like the following [print queue name varies]: >r9 >%%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  17-JUN-2001 00:36:34.02  %%%%%%%%%%%h! >Message from user SYSTEM on CORP I >UCX$TELNETSYM - (SEAT$LASER1) open_socket_ast invoked with bad IOSB 556:g >device  >timeout >h >s' >The system particulars are as follows:e > A >  Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 3 3 >  on a AlphaServer 2100 5/300 running OpenVMS V7.1y >n >eF >Nothing in particular in the documentation refers to this problem.  AG >search of the "Ask the Wizard" site also turns of nothing pertinent toa >this problem. > F >A Google search indicates that one other person has posted a questionF >about the same problem in some time in 1999, and that no replies were >received to the original post.  > D >It also appears that while the printing problem opcom messages wereC >being generated that there was a problem receiving incoming telnetyG >connections on this system.  Unfortunately, the system was rebooted bytF >an operator before I could get a remote console connection to try and/ >diagnose the problem through the console port.o >sG >Any clues as to what's going on here w/respect to the IOSB 556 part ofhI >the message?  I'm assuming that the text "device timeout" is in fact theyI >descriptive text for an IOSB code of 556, but I don't have have docs forrG >TCP/IP $QIO calls handy to check this for sure.  Could it be that somerC >part of the WAN was down and that the remote printers could not bet >communicated with?  >I >s >TIA,  >e >Chuck >--e >Chuck Chopp > 9 >ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.coma1 >                                  ICQ # 22321532hA >RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemailv3 >103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 faxe5 >Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pagers8 >                                  8007740718@skytel.com >d >  >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:32:49 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>+ Subject: Re: UCX problem - printing? other? + Message-ID: <3B2EABC1.C6C42905@rtfmcsi.com>n  P OK, it looks like the problem has been resolved.  A major change was made in theO WAN [e.g. new frame-relay provider, new routers], and a few remote sides didn'teM quite get their new routers configured 100% same as the old ones w/respect toaN how they were handling their routing.  Something ran afoul in network land....  B I like it when the cause of the problem turn to be somebody else's pooper-scooper job.w     Thanks for the feedback.     Chucke -- Chuck Chopp-  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager7                                   8007740718@skytel.comu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:15:42 GMTc7 From: trevor.osatchuk@nospam.pscl.com (Trevor Osatchuk)w Subject: UCX tcp/ip problems5 Message-ID: <3b2e6854.919159681@news.telusplanet.net>   B I am a VMS newbie and I am having trouble with tcp/ip on VMS.  The versions of UCX and VMS are: UCX> show versionp  2   DEC TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS AXP Version V3.2  6   on a AlphaStation 200 4/166 running OpenVMS V6.2-1H2  F I can telnet into the Alpha, but when I try to ftp from that login theB screen freezes and I lose my connection.  I will then login at theC serial console and I will not be able to ping, telnet or ftp out of,? the VMS computer.  It will also not respond to pings from other-B computers.  When I am logged in at the serial console I can ftp toD another compter(Digital UNIX) and every now and then I will lose the? connection.  Then the console freezes up and I have to wait 3-4n? minutes before I get a prompt and then I cannot use any network A programs and the VMS computer is not responding to pings.  When InC restart VMS it comes up with networking running fine.  This machineoE was just recently recovered from a crash.  The machine is on a remoteaC site, so I can't switch nic's or have any other physical influence. C The nic is the on-board one.  There are no other network devices in. the system.t   I would welcome any input.   Thanks!n Trevor Osatchuk    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:38:56 GMTa7 From: trevor.osatchuk@nospam.pscl.com (Trevor Osatchuk)   Subject: Re: UCX tcp/ip problems5 Message-ID: <3b2e80b4.925399283@news.telusplanet.net>V  F Some further info.  I was telneted into the VMS box from a NT computerF and I tried to ftp to the DU box.  This hung up my connection.  I went" and did a show user /full and got:7       OpenVMS User Processes at 18-JUN-2001 16:26:12.98n7     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 2s  *  Username Process Name    PID     TerminalC  USER1 USER1       00000051  TNA1:    (Host: 172.22.128.59    Port:c 2190 )/  USER1 USER1  _OPA0:        00000052  OPA0:       tF 172.22.128.59 is the IP assigned to my NT computer.  I did a ping fromF VMX/UCX and got no response.  I did a show user /full and got the sameE as above.  I killed my telnet client and did a sho user /full and thesA entry with the IP was gone.  It was still connected somehow but IbE couldn't communicate.  Very flakey.  I changed network cables and thew: hub.(one of the guys on site did it for me)  Still no joy.  > Any input, encouragement or even disdain would be appreciated.   Trevor Osatchuk3   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:54:27 +0100c, From: Martyn <mpatt644@netscapeonline.co.uk>  Subject: Re: UCX tcp/ip problems4 Message-ID: <3B2E86A3.598BE26B@netscapeonline.co.uk>   Trevor,tE     To start with both the VMS and UCX versions you're using are VERY4C old, however I suspect you won't want to be upgrading (it might notrG solve your problem anyway). This sounds a bit like it could be problemsaG with Auto-negotiation between the NIC and the hub. Are they both set touC Auto Negotiate ? If so it might be worth tying them down to a fixediG speed. This problem has been discussed in here several times, so have a H troll around for previous discussions. If you can post the Hardware typeC of the Vax/ALpha, the NIC and the Hub then someone might be able tos offer more specific advice.s   Trevor Osatchuk wrote: > H > Some further info.  I was telneted into the VMS box from a NT computerH > and I tried to ftp to the DU box.  This hung up my connection.  I went$ > and did a show user /full and got:9 >       OpenVMS User Processes at 18-JUN-2001 16:26:12.98-9 >     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 2  > , >  Username Process Name    PID     TerminalE >  USER1 USER1       00000051  TNA1:    (Host: 172.22.128.59    Port:e > 2190 )- >  USER1 USER1  _OPA0:        00000052  OPA0:t > H > 172.22.128.59 is the IP assigned to my NT computer.  I did a ping fromH > VMX/UCX and got no response.  I did a show user /full and got the sameG > as above.  I killed my telnet client and did a sho user /full and the-C > entry with the IP was gone.  It was still connected somehow but I G > couldn't communicate.  Very flakey.  I changed network cables and the < > hub.(one of the guys on site did it for me)  Still no joy. > @ > Any input, encouragement or even disdain would be appreciated. >  > Trevor Osatchuk    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:04:33 GMT-7 From: trevor.osatchuk@nospam.pscl.com (Trevor Osatchuk)-  Subject: Re: UCX tcp/ip problems5 Message-ID: <3b2e876c.927119327@news.telusplanet.net>M  * On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:54:27 +0100, Martyn& <mpatt644@netscapeonline.co.uk> wrote:   >Trevor,F >    To start with both the VMS and UCX versions you're using are VERYD >old, however I suspect you won't want to be upgrading (it might notH >solve your problem anyway). This sounds a bit like it could be problemsH >with Auto-negotiation between the NIC and the hub. Are they both set toD >Auto Negotiate ? If so it might be worth tying them down to a fixedH >speed. This problem has been discussed in here several times, so have aI >troll around for previous discussions. If you can post the Hardware typehD >of the Vax/ALpha, the NIC and the Hub then someone might be able to >offer more specific advice.  E I guess this is setup in the console?  I will have a look at what theiB nic is setup to do.  I looked at every post in the news group fromF about April 2 to see if there was a similar post.  I did that before ID posted and do generally before I post.  In fact last week I had four< questions answered by other posters!  This is a great group.  E Is there a place where I could find old posts to go through?  If thisMF were a mailing list then it would probably be easier, but I don't know' if this is cached or archive somewhere.V  = Thanks for the suggestion.  If it pans out I'll let you know.    >S >Trevor Osatchuk wrote:  >> PI >> Some further info.  I was telneted into the VMS box from a NT computer I >> and I tried to ftp to the DU box.  This hung up my connection.  I wentt% >> and did a show user /full and got:s: >>       OpenVMS User Processes at 18-JUN-2001 16:26:12.98: >>     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 2 >> @- >>  Username Process Name    PID     TerminalNF >>  USER1 USER1       00000051  TNA1:    (Host: 172.22.128.59    Port:	 >> 2190 )$. >>  USER1 USER1  _OPA0:        00000052  OPA0: >>  I >> 172.22.128.59 is the IP assigned to my NT computer.  I did a ping from-I >> VMX/UCX and got no response.  I did a show user /full and got the sameaH >> as above.  I killed my telnet client and did a sho user /full and theD >> entry with the IP was gone.  It was still connected somehow but IH >> couldn't communicate.  Very flakey.  I changed network cables and the= >> hub.(one of the guys on site did it for me)  Still no joy.h >>  A >> Any input, encouragement or even disdain would be appreciated.- >>   >> Trevor Osatchuk   Trevor Osatchuk:   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:02:25 GMT>7 From: trevor.osatchuk@nospam.pscl.com (Trevor Osatchuk)o  Subject: Re: UCX tcp/ip problems5 Message-ID: <3b2e9487.930474090@news.telusplanet.net>1  * On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:54:27 +0100, Martyn& <mpatt644@netscapeonline.co.uk> wrote:   >Trevor,F >    To start with both the VMS and UCX versions you're using are VERYD >old, however I suspect you won't want to be upgrading (it might notH >solve your problem anyway). This sounds a bit like it could be problemsH >with Auto-negotiation between the NIC and the hub. Are they both set toD >Auto Negotiate ? If so it might be worth tying them down to a fixedH >speed. This problem has been discussed in here several times, so have aI >troll around for previous discussions. If you can post the Hardware type\D >of the Vax/ALpha, the NIC and the Hub then someone might be able to >offer more specific advice. >    As for hardware:2   DEC TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS AXP Version V3.26   on a AlphaStation 200 4/166 running OpenVMS V6.2-1H2  D The nic is the one on the motherboard of the AlphaStation 200.  I am) not sure of the hub, but I will find out.r   >Trevor Osatchuk wrote:o >> tI >> Some further info.  I was telneted into the VMS box from a NT computer I >> and I tried to ftp to the DU box.  This hung up my connection.  I wentu% >> and did a show user /full and got:/: >>       OpenVMS User Processes at 18-JUN-2001 16:26:12.98: >>     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 2 >>  - >>  Username Process Name    PID     TerminaluF >>  USER1 USER1       00000051  TNA1:    (Host: 172.22.128.59    Port:	 >> 2190 )d. >>  USER1 USER1  _OPA0:        00000052  OPA0: >> aI >> 172.22.128.59 is the IP assigned to my NT computer.  I did a ping from I >> VMX/UCX and got no response.  I did a show user /full and got the sameiH >> as above.  I killed my telnet client and did a sho user /full and theD >> entry with the IP was gone.  It was still connected somehow but IH >> couldn't communicate.  Very flakey.  I changed network cables and the= >> hub.(one of the guys on site did it for me)  Still no joy.e >> nA >> Any input, encouragement or even disdain would be appreciated.d >> y >> Trevor Osatchuk   Trevor Osatchuk-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:11:36 +0100u1 From: "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> $ Subject: Re: vms maintenance utilityA Message-ID: <992906044.16829.0.nnrp-08.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk>w  , <gleason@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:zDYGcn4yVhu4@eisner.encompasserve.org...I; > In article <3B2905ED.F76B409D@bigfoot.com>, Hamlyn Mootoo6 <univms@bigfoot.com> writes:L > > The maintenance utility is called RTFM and has been around since VMS 1.0 > > :) > >fL > > But seriously, as pointed out earlier, no such facility exists.  ReadingK > > the manuals are the your best bet.  It's tough to become a VMS system'saI > > administrator overnight, and it really is prudent to learn the basicsf fromJ > > a user level before jumping into administration (just like AIX, or anyG > > other real OS).  But certainly, even if your engagement with VMS is K > > limited, most (if not all) of the seasoned professionals out  here willn be= > > more than happy to try to answer your specific questions.v > >  > D >   All that is required to become a decent VMS admin is to read and
 understandL > each and every manual in the well written and widely available manual set.   To read each and every...   H This covers an awful lot - many of the manuals are of little interest to1 most system managers (it is VMS rather than Unix)u  I Even as former system manager, now a developer, I have certainly not read7D them all, and have absolutely no intention of reading some of them -K especially the macro ones. Many of them are much more suited to the odd dip  looking for soem odd bit.   B >    I would weep tears of joy if the same could be said for other platforms...     --
 Chris Townley. chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk townleyc@spicers.ltd.ukl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 03:42:34 GMT 1 From: "Digital Surplus" <info@digitalsurplus.com>t! Subject: WE BUY EXCESS DEC/Compaq 9 Message-ID: <KSzX6.44080$Ua3.3324040@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>a  G wanted excess late model DEC storageworks, Alphas and memory,   contactu buyer@digitalsurplus.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:06:37 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate changeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011406380001@user-2iveamb.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <3B2E0364.2E31464A@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:  > L > > In article <9glaft$2qp6$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote: > >l > > > "Who is John Galt?"- > >dM > > That's the most sensible thing that's appeared in this thread in weeks...e > 1 > yet you still keep contibuting to the thread...t  O I'm trying to stop...  You'd be surprised how many replies I've deleted unsent.i   What's your excuse? ;-)n   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:05:13 -0400/2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1806011405140001@user-2iveamb.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <cBltdGkEXPPH@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) wrote:    F >    I meant that in the EU the largest member doesn't have an economyD > 10 times the size of the next largest participant, like in NAFTA.   G But the EU must have a bigger gap, percentage-wise, between the biggest. and the smallest.s  	 > I think D > the dynamics are quite different if you have several members with F > significant clout. The EU is also a much tighter alliance than NAFTAC > (common currency, less restrictions on labour crossing borders ).t  G True, NAFTA emphasizes goods, not labor.  As for currency, the U.S. andaI Canadian dollars float freely relative to each other.  The market decides E where the exchange rate will be, and one is easily convertable to theo+ other with no bureaucratic approval needed.o  B > > Canada's economy is much smaller than the US's, but Canada hasI > >traditionally been our #1 or #2 trading partner.  NAFTA hasn't changed0 > >that, AFAIK.% > M >     I've always been led to believe Canada has always been the US's largest_/ > trading partner, and by quite a wide margin.    B That agrees with my memory.  I'm not absolutely sure Canada hasn't3 occasionally gone to #2, hence my weaker statement.    > That doesn't mean the terms5; > of the partnership aren't pretty much dictated by the US    * I'm pretty sure you folks ratified it too.  
 > or that thes: > rules can't be changed at the whim of the US government.  A If you mean our government is more devious at exploiting existingpH loopholes, I suspect you are right.  Our government is just more deviousF than yours.  Be glad you folks up north are NOT the primary targets of said deviousness.  We are.  G I don't think anything in the treaty lets any party actually change the  terms on a whim.   -- t Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:47:00 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B2E4CA2.78406202@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:hH > NAFTA has a 15-year phase-in period.  It was ratified during Clinton's
 > first year,b  J But NAFTA is essentially the older free trade agreement negotiated betweenL Reagan and Mulroney between Canada and USA, with a few changes to accomodateI Mexico in there. Few americans know that the free trade agreement existed D beforehand because their TV media didn't cover it since there was noK sensationalism (mexicans crossing borders, jobs going to cheap labour etc).S  K > How can you say the participants in the EU have relatively equal economic J > power?!?  Germany and France clearly dominate, and there are a number of1 > members who are TINY by any reasonable measure.k  E There is no one big "monster" in the EU. Don't forget the UK which isuL essentially in the EU without wanting to officially admit to it. Not only isK there not one huge giant, but the differences in sizes (population) betweenmN the members of the EU are not as great as between Canada and USA for instance.M Furthermore, because each EU member has its own distinct culture/language andsK because there isn't the one big all mighty monster in the middle, countriesrM have less fear of losing their culture because of the EU than they do becauser4 of the United States (which controls movies, TV etc)  M In the case of Canada, special clauses had to be put into the agreements (FTA N and then NAFTA) to protect our struggling cultural industry otherwise it wouldL have been eradicated by USA very large companies and we would no longer haveM an english culture of our own. Qubec is somewhat sheltered from that effect,  but not completely.e  I If only the government had protected Canada from Wallmart killing smaller  towns here too.s  @ > Canada's economy is much smaller than the US's, but Canada hasH > traditionally been our #1 or #2 trading partner.  NAFTA hasn't changed > that, AFAIK.  N NAFTA hasn't changed that because the FTA had been in place. And prior to FTA,N trade between the 2 countries was in jeopardy because the protectionist forcesN in the USA were starting to put pressure to stop canadian imports into the USA9 (accusations of subsidies for wood, meat, wheat etc etc).2  L Also, it is little known fact that trade between Canada and USA is orders ofL magnitudes greater than between USA and Japan. However, because the trade isN more balances, the deficit is not as sensationalistic as it is between USA and- Japan, hence the media rarely mention Canada.t  M Also, what is not mentioned in the trade figures with countries such as JapaniN is how much of Japan's imports come from US owned companies operating in otherG countries. For instance, if Japan buys lots of Kraft products that werenK manufactured in say, Australia, the US trade figures would not see those asoI USA exports to Japan, but in reality they are partly exports from the USAi! since profits go back to the USA.e  N Similarly since many countries in the pacific drive on the left, it makes moreJ sense to export GM/FORD cars built in the pacific to Japan then it does toL export Detroit-built cars to Japan since Detroit isn't geared to manufactureF right-hand-drive  cars (to drive in countries that drive on the left).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:58:39 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B2E4F5C.3F742793@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote: I > True, NAFTA emphasizes goods, not labor.  As for currency, the U.S. and K > Canadian dollars float freely relative to each other.  The market decides6G > where the exchange rate will be, and one is easily convertable to theU- > other with no bureaucratic approval needed.1  K Not quite that free. If you guys decide to hike your interest rates, CanadaUL has to follow otherwise our currency will falter even more because investors/ will seek the higher interest rates in the USA.nM Because the USA is not only 10 times our size, but also a world leader, we doe9 not have the economic freedom to operate the way we want.   L And as far as currency, since it is influenced by the interest rates of eachM country, and since interest rates are dictated by the central banks, there isiG *some* government control of the currency. The rest is all given to theaK speculators in Chicago who drive a currency down whenever they feel like it-' (will the Aussie dollar ever recover ?)c  G Even inside of a country such as Canada, currency/interest rates causesbL problems. When the Ontario economy was booming, the government wanted to putJ the brakes to prevent inflation, but the rest of the country had lethargicH economy so putting the brakes (raising interest rates) for Ontario meansM hurting the rest of the country.  Add to that the fact that we have to followoH major USA interest rate trends, and it causes even less control over theN economy of a country. Governments have less and less ability to stimulate/slow, down their economy because of globalisation.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 19:13:59 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9gljtn$30bo$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <cBltdGkEXPPH@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>,4  nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: |>  N |>     I've always been led to believe Canada has always been the US's largestK |> trading partner, and by quite a wide margin. That doesn't mean the termsuG |> of the partnership aren't pretty much dictated by the US or that the ; |> rules can't be changed at the whim of the US government.  |> t  @ And when did the US invade Canada and impose this grossly unfairB agreement on them??  If they don't wish to trade with the US, more@ power to them.  Having many friends in Canada who share a common> interest (we all own classic Brit cars) I know for a fact theyA don't get a better deal even from England who you would think wasoB much closer to them than to the US.  As a matter of fact, they payD higher import duties on items bought from the same British companies
 than I do.  A Funny, most Americans think NAFTA was a bad idea, too.  But then,r7 we weren't asked our opinion before the signing either.-   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2001 19:22:03 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9glkcr$30bo$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3B2E4CA2.78406202@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> eL |> If only the government had protected Canada from Wallmart killing smaller |> towns here too.  G Yeah, I hear that down here all the time.  Usually from people on theiroF way home from shopping there.  You know, if no one had gone to WalMartG when the first one opened up it never would have become the giant it isvH today.  And you know what else??  Eventually another giant will come and% swallow it up too.  And life goes on.e   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   w   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 12:41:32 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)n2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <LrnISbpydlri@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  M In article <rdeininger-1806011405140001@user-2iveamb.dialup.mindspring.com>, t8     rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  G >>    I meant that in the EU the largest member doesn't have an economyaE >> 10 times the size of the next largest participant, like in NAFTA. 0 > I > But the EU must have a bigger gap, percentage-wise, between the biggest@ > and the smallest.s > D      I'm sure it does, but with more than one "big fish" in the pondF it's probably harder for one country to dominate things quite so much.   >> ON >>     I've always been led to believe Canada has always been the US's largest0 >> trading partner, and by quite a wide margin.  > D > That agrees with my memory.  I'm not absolutely sure Canada hasn't5 > occasionally gone to #2, hence my weaker statement.w >   ;     According to figures from the US Department of CommercecF (http://www.export.gov/docTSFrameset.html) Canada has been #1 in totalG trade with the US at least since 1993, with total US-Canada trade beinggB about 1.5 times the next closest US trading partner. Japan used toA be #2 but was surpassed by Mexico in 1999. If the trend continuesuD Mexico may be the US's largest trading partner a few years from now.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Jun 2001 12:45:50 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)J2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <xa0dJP925f2f@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3B2E4CA2.78406202@videotron.ca>, r2    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > N > Also, it is little known fact that trade between Canada and USA is orders ofN > magnitudes greater than between USA and Japan. However, because the trade isP > more balances, the deficit is not as sensationalistic as it is between USA and/ > Japan, hence the media rarely mention Canada.e > M     Well not "orders of magnitude" ( unless you use a binary number system ).a  I     In 2000 total US/Canada trade was 407,995 million US$, US/Japan tradelH     was 211,831 million US$ ( according to the US Commerce Department ).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:20:43 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>h2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <3B2E8CCB.DE7EE7A3@infopuls.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:>   [SNIPt  K > How can you say the participants in the EU have relatively equal economictJ > power?!?  Germany and France clearly dominate, and there are a number of1 > members who are TINY by any reasonable measure.s  ? Sorry for stepping although I think to keep politics out of covn would be best practice anyway.; The second powerful econoy is cleary the UK I just read the < numbers of the BIP for 2000. California is on the 10th place= just behind UK. The numbers in billions Swiss Franks (sorry):1? USA 17640, Japan 8171, Germany 3305, UK 2505, France 2267, ...,f8 California 1065, Mexico 1038, Spain 1012, Australia 757.   [SNIP]   > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:25:07 -0400c2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1906010125080001@user-2iveb3m.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B2E4CA2.78406202@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeiy% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:-   > Robert Deininger wrote:-J > > NAFTA has a 15-year phase-in period.  It was ratified during Clinton's > > first year,. > L > But NAFTA is essentially the older free trade agreement negotiated betweenN > Reagan and Mulroney between Canada and USA, with a few changes to accomodateK > Mexico in there. Few americans know that the free trade agreement existed@3 > beforehand because their TV media didn't cover iti  N Well, count me as one who payed attention before NAFTA.  And I don't watch TV.  M > > How can you say the participants in the EU have relatively equal economicsL > > power?!?  Germany and France clearly dominate, and there are a number of3 > > members who are TINY by any reasonable measure.y > G > There is no one big "monster" in the EU. Don't forget the UK which isaN > essentially in the EU without wanting to officially admit to it. Not only isM > there not one huge giant, but the differences in sizes (population) betweenpP > the members of the EU are not as great as between Canada and USA for instance.O > Furthermore, because each EU member has its own distinct culture/language andsD > because there isn't the one big all mighty monster in the middle,   + What "monster" would you be referring to?  h  B And I would argue that U.S. and Canadian culture are significantly different in many ways.t   > countriessO > have less fear of losing their culture because of the EU than they do because 6 > of the United States (which controls movies, TV etc)  I I think you have Canadian bias.  Folks in the smaller EU contries seem totE have the same concerns about culture.  But they probabaly don't think 
 Canadians do.e  H Nobody wants to take away your currency in Canada.  That's a good thing.  K > If only the government had protected Canada from Wallmart killing smaller- > towns here too.-  H Why should any government get involved in picking retail stores?  In theD vast majority of cases where Wal-Mart is winning, it's because theirJ competition stinks.  I deduce that because the customers prefer Wal-Mart. I And I've never heard of a Wal-Mart killing a whole town.  Just some other-? stores.  If a town is so close to drying up that one store in a0F neighboring town finishes it off, I don't think it's fair to blame the
 last straw...e  1 Towns have been dying since long before Wal-Mart.m  B > > Canada's economy is much smaller than the US's, but Canada hasJ > > traditionally been our #1 or #2 trading partner.  NAFTA hasn't changed > > that, AFAIK. > P > NAFTA hasn't changed that because the FTA had been in place. And prior to FTA,P > trade between the 2 countries was in jeopardy because the protectionist forcesP > in the USA were starting to put pressure to stop canadian imports into the USA; > (accusations of subsidies for wood, meat, wheat etc etc).   J Well, we've quieted the protectionists down pretty well in the last couple of decades.-  D It's interesting that NAFTA was brought into the discussion, but now< several people say that NAFTA hasn't had much real impact...  N > Also, it is little known fact that trade between Canada and USA is orders ofN > magnitudes greater than between USA and Japan. However, because the trade isP > more balances, the deficit is not as sensationalistic as it is between USA and/ > Japan, hence the media rarely mention Canada.t > O > Also, what is not mentioned in the trade figures with countries such as JapaneP > is how much of Japan's imports come from US owned companies operating in otherI > countries. For instance, if Japan buys lots of Kraft products that were M > manufactured in say, Australia, the US trade figures would not see those asoK > USA exports to Japan, but in reality they are partly exports from the USAm# > since profits go back to the USA.r  J Yes, measuring trade balances is tricky, and pundits and spinners can haveG fun by cooking the statistics.  The flow of currency probably gives thenI best measure over time.  The Japanese (for example) won't keep sending usaI goods in exchange for little green dollars, unless they expect to be ablebJ to buy dollar-denominated goods and services.  And most dollar-denominatedC stuff originates in the US.  As long as neither government tries toUH interfere with the currency markets, trade will be fairly self-balancingI in the long run.  Of course, some folks might not the like the particularnH industries that thrive in a certain country under this system.  What theI auto makers hate, the auto importers will love.  What the consumers hate,r! the vendors will love.  etc. etc.r    P > Similarly since many countries in the pacific drive on the left, it makes moreL > sense to export GM/FORD cars built in the pacific to Japan then it does toN > export Detroit-built cars to Japan since Detroit isn't geared to manufactureH > right-hand-drive  cars (to drive in countries that drive on the left).  F I've heard that before, but I think it's largely a straw man.  DetroitH makes many variations of lots of cars.  Left-hand drive wouldn't be thatB big a deal.  I suspect there are other reasons, and this is just aJ convenient excuse.  I suspect shipping costs are involved to, and probably& lots of semi-hidden taxes and tariffs.   -- 4 Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:38:25 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1906010138260001@user-2iveb3m.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3B2E4F5C.3F742793@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeie% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:r   > Robert Deininger wrote:cK > > True, NAFTA emphasizes goods, not labor.  As for currency, the U.S. andpM > > Canadian dollars float freely relative to each other.  The market decideseI > > where the exchange rate will be, and one is easily convertable to thea/ > > other with no bureaucratic approval needed.s > M > Not quite that free. If you guys decide to hike your interest rates, CanadaiN > has to follow otherwise our currency will falter even more because investors1 > will seek the higher interest rates in the USA. O > Because the USA is not only 10 times our size, but also a world leader, we do ; > not have the economic freedom to operate the way we want.m  F There are real limits on this kind of game.  Sure, it would be nice toH attract more foreign investment sometimes.  But the higher rates have toD be paid out; they can't be raised too much and still be affordable. 5 Paying more than the money is worth is unsustainable.   F What productive use is there for the borrowed money?  If the perceivedC return on investment is higher in the US, capital will flow in fromuE Canada.  If the return in higher in Canada, money will flow the othernI way.  But when you're talking about governments borrowing money for theirtI own purposes, the concept of "return on investment" is fairly murky.  AndCH they can cover their tracks by taxing, and in the short term fiddle with- the money supply to distract folks even more.s  C Also, don't forget that our government has rather weak control overgG interest rates here, and mainly only short-term rates.  They can fiddleiJ with the reserve requirements, which indirectly affects rates by shrinkingD or enlarging the money supply.  And they can tweek the federal fundsE rate.  But long-term government borrowing is done in the open auction H market.  They have to pay whatever rate the market demands on the day of the auction.  N > And as far as currency, since it is influenced by the interest rates of eachO > country, and since interest rates are dictated by the central banks, there isbI > *some* government control of the currency. The rest is all given to thetM > speculators in Chicago who drive a currency down whenever they feel like itc) > (will the Aussie dollar ever recover ?)p  B Speculators don't have it so easy.  Manipulating currencies over aB significant length of time is very risky and takes huge amounts ofJ capital.  And there's ALWAYS someone with deeper pockets ready to burn youH if you distort a market by very much.  Most folks realize there are more, productive ways to use gazzillions of bucks.  I The only large-scale currency manipulations I know of were largely causedhE by pegged exchange rates.  If you buy at market rates and sell at thesI pegged rate (or the other way 'round), your vaults can get cleaned out ini a hurry.   -- d Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com-   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.337 ************************