1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 20 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 340       Contents:6 26 June OpenVMS DiamondForum postponed - San Jose, CA.: Re: 26 June OpenVMS DiamondForum postponed - San Jose, CA.: Re: 26 June OpenVMS DiamondForum postponed - San Jose, CA.7 Re: Alpha/VMS 7.3 sys$icc PAL mode blue screen of death ( Re: cannot connect to XServer over tcpip5 Re: Carbon dating DEC/VMS users, was: Re: V7.3 backup & Re: Compaq: 180 Days of Transformation connect to XServer over decnet Re: DCL READ problem in VMS 7.3  Re: Fibre Channel problems Re: FreeVMS  Re: FreeVMS  RE: FreeVMS 4 Re: How to see who causes execessive login failures.4 Re: How to see who causes execessive login failures.4 Re: How to see who causes execessive login failures.+ Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely? 
 Listserver Re: Listserver Re: Listserver Re: Misuse of OpenVMS Marketing  Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS Applications Re: OpenVMS ApplicationsP OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions - Contract/London,City/3 monthsETMS10060 & PerP Re: OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions - Contract/London,City/3monthsETMS10060 & P Re: OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions -Contract/London,City/3monthsETMS10060 & P2 Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux2 Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux2 Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and LinuxF OT answering, was RE: How to see who causes execessive login failures.I Re: OT answering, was RE: How to see who causes execessive loginfailures.  PCSI_MENU: A draft spec  Re: PGP for VMS ( Problem with NFS from VMS to Win 2000/NT Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40s 9 Re: Remote connection error on OVMS 7.2 and Oracle 7.3... 1 RE: SCSI Parity Errors - Now with Added Weirdness 5 SMTP notification messages - how do I turn them off ?  Re: Streaming of multiple files , Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market.0 Re: Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market.0 Re: Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market.0 Re: Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market.' SYS$PIPEDRIVER, MPA0:, I/O Users Manual  Threads and mailboxes  Re: tt Re: tt Re: tt Re: tt UCX 4.1 Documentation " Re: Unix join utility for openvms?" Re: Unix join utility for openvms?" Re: Unix join utility for openvms?" Re: Unix join utility for openvms?" Re: Unix join utility for openvms?1 Re: VMS->unix mail converter that works on 7.2-1? " www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable& Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable& Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable& Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable& Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable& Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable& Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable$ Re: XML Import / Export for OpenVMS?$ Re: XML Import / Export for OpenVMS? Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? : Re: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager?: Re: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager?: Re: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 12:43:29 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> ? Subject: 26 June OpenVMS DiamondForum postponed - San Jose, CA. . Message-ID: <3b309a90@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  J I was informed yesterday by Compaq that the OpenVMS DiamondForum scheduled? for San Jose, CA on 26 June will be postponed "Due to unforseen K circumstances..."  I am intrigued by Terry Shannon's cryptic comments about L something bring down in Houston and this "rescheduling" of the DiamondForum.0 Rick Marcello was to be one of the key speakers.   --
 Bill Pedersen  CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learning  http://www.CCSScorp.com  831-336-2708 ================   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:12:30 GMT  From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com C Subject: Re: 26 June OpenVMS DiamondForum postponed - San Jose, CA. 8 Message-ID: <9ki1jtgvh2jo16kto8lkkklub5u88qtes4@4ax.com>  D On 20 Jun 2001 12:43:29 GMT, "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> wrote:  K >I was informed yesterday by Compaq that the OpenVMS DiamondForum scheduled @ >for San Jose, CA on 26 June will be postponed "Due to unforseenL >circumstances..."  I am intrigued by Terry Shannon's cryptic comments aboutM >something bring down in Houston and this "rescheduling" of the DiamondForum. 1 >Rick Marcello was to be one of the key speakers.   ; from what I understand, CPQ is trying to squeeze every last = drop of blood out of a stone, in order to meet Wall Street's  & "whisper" numbers for this quarter ...  4 ergo, they probably canceled all travel, except for  the CEO's and the like.   8 that said, you'd have to wonder if Marcello was affected- by the lastest managment chair shuffling ....    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:39:35 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> C Subject: Re: 26 June OpenVMS DiamondForum postponed - San Jose, CA. / Message-ID: <tj1nu58hvi6c4c@news.supernews.com>   , <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com> wrote in message2 news:9ki1jtgvh2jo16kto8lkkklub5u88qtes4@4ax.com...F > On 20 Jun 2001 12:43:29 GMT, "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> > wrote: > C > >I was informed yesterday by Compaq that the OpenVMS DiamondForum 	 scheduled B > >for San Jose, CA on 26 June will be postponed "Due to unforseenH > >circumstances..."  I am intrigued by Terry Shannon's cryptic comments about A > >something bring down in Houston and this "rescheduling" of the 
 DiamondForum. 3 > >Rick Marcello was to be one of the key speakers.  > = > from what I understand, CPQ is trying to squeeze every last > > drop of blood out of a stone, in order to meet Wall Street's( > "whisper" numbers for this quarter ... > 5 > ergo, they probably canceled all travel, except for  > the CEO's and the like.  > : > that said, you'd have to wonder if Marcello was affected/ > by the lastest managment chair shuffling ....  >   I Rich was promoted in the latest chair shuffling.  Hopefully, the "180 day K transformation" that Terry is whispering about won't be 6 months of musical  chairs!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:55:46 +0100 , From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m>@ Subject: Re: Alpha/VMS 7.3 sys$icc PAL mode blue screen of death3 Message-ID: <9gqgut$j0g$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>   
 Hi Robert,   Thanks for the reply.  >  > That's pretty vague!!   K Sorry, it's an Alphastation 255. (Although I am surprised that the "have to A power down before reboot" is not a hardware specific requirement)  > I > Did you upgrade the firmware as recommended before the VMS 7.3 upgrade?   L Firmware comes from the 5.4 compilation CDs. One of our sys admin guys tellsH me that there is a later version (v6.0?) available for about 6 weeks butH he's never seen one. Nor does he know if it contains a relevant upgrade.   SRM Code 7.0-9 PAL Code 5.56-2  > , > Configure the system to make a crash dump.    I'll see if we've got the space. > 6 > You're in luck, the problem seems easy to reproduce.  D Well, more no than yes :-) It happened twice but I've been unable toH reproduce it since. My code has also changed quite considerably since itG happened so maybe it was a combination of things. I _was_ inadvertently F sending the privilege parameter as the flags parameter so maybe it has2 something to do with the SYNCH flag? I don't know.   Regards Richard Maher.  H PS. Why do we still have to provide a privs parameter to $icc_open_assocH when we are creating a client? Is it merely the absence of a connect AST- that tells ICC whether or not we're a server?   = Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-1906010148150001@user-2iveb3m.dialup.mindspring.com...C > In article <9glh8l$raa$1@uranium.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher"  > <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m> wrote:  >  > > Hi,  > >  > > Does > >     Halt code = 7 ' > >     Machine check while in PAL mode  > >     PC = A3E0  > > mean anything to anybody?  > D > Could be a hardware problem.  Bad memory?  I'd run all the consoleL > diagnositics.  And look at the error logs for errors corrected on the fly. > I > Did you upgrade the firmware as recommended before the VMS 7.3 upgrade?  > I > > Sorry I don't have a bug check but in case anyone's interested, I was  ableI > > to crash an Alpha box by simply pressing Control-Y! Hard to believe I  knowC > > but it did happen twice, and I was the only one on the machine.  > 5 > Well, if you're serious about tracking this down...  > 9 > Get the details of the hardware/firmware configuration.  > 0 > Check for VMS 7.3 patches (are there any yet?) > , > Configure the system to make a crash dump. > 5 > Look at at least the summary of the crash analysis.  > 6 > You're in luck, the problem seems easy to reproduce. >  > > Regards Richard Maher  > > L > > PS. Sorry I forgot to write down the model of the workstation but it was one K > > of those old ones that you have to power down before rebooting. (or the < > > reboot just stops after the "loading DECnet-OSI message) >  > That's pretty vague!!  >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 15:55:57 GMT7 From: Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann) 1 Subject: Re: cannot connect to XServer over tcpip 0 Message-ID: <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-NoCNwd6Pff9d@Tom2>   thanks, it was it    Thomas Hahnemann   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:56:46 GMT B From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>> Subject: Re: Carbon dating DEC/VMS users, was: Re: V7.3 backup5 Message-ID: <yt5Y6.2839$yp1.85446@www.newsranger.com>   K On 19 Jun 2001 10:34:47 -0700, in article <RCnbKg1Ec7p6@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>,  Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 7 >In article <GNLX6.1522$yp1.39592@www.newsranger.com>,  H >   Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> writes: > / >> On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 09:08:32 GMT, in article I >> <MPG.15978f1b376208ab989696@news.bellatlantic.net>, John Santos wrote: ? >>>(BTW, don't say "SPR" to them; they don't know what it means G >>>anymore.  I still have a large stack of 12-part carbon SPR forms.  I / >>>wonder what would happen if I sent one in??)  >>  M >> Here in the UK, asking to speak to Field Service, instead of whatever they P >> are called these days, is a good way to get a puzzled response from the other >> end of the telephone. >>  K >   Do whatever these Field Service guys are called now still fill out LARS 3 >reports when they're done working on your system?   >  >   Or did LARS get RIFed :-)  >   L Actually, I am not familiar with the term "LARS", or if I once was, it's now forgotten information.  H If you are referring to the forms in the Field Service site maintainenceK manual, I haven't had a site maintainence manual for the last 2 generations  of my VMS machines.   K [For the benefit of newcomers to DEC/CPQ: DEC, as part of your maintainence J contract, used to supply a thick A4 size ring binder containing reports onK everything that happened at your site. The reports were filled out at every J visit (including routine PM visits). Are these still in use on high end or old machine sites ?]  K >  ps. I am amazed that I can still buy "DECservice" for my systems though.  >   : Hush, or they will remove this trace of DEC as well... :-)   Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP K Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 08:49:15 -0500# From: medleyb@ev1.net (Bert Medley) / Subject: Re: Compaq: 180 Days of Transformation : Message-ID: <Xns90C65A47775DEmedleybev1net@207.218.245.68>  7 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in 2 <K0QX6.5060$P46.3178015@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>:    > 1 >"Bert Medley" <medleyb@ev1.net> wrote in message 5 >news:Xns90C59A97BDB96medleybev1net@207.218.245.68...  >> [posted and mailed] >>  : >> "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in4 >> <JaBX6.1461$wU6.1981124@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>: >>   >>> www.acersoft.com >>  	 >> Terry,  >>  F >> Your back issues section at this site is woefully out of date (1999( >> and earlier only?)  Please elucidate! > I >My paid subscribers (who have all the back issues, since they are paying F >for a service) will have the details on the transformation within the >next couple of days.  >  >  >   C OK....that explains it.  Thanks!  [Got your email and thanks again]    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 16:03:32 GMT7 From: Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann) ' Subject: connect to XServer over decnet 0 Message-ID: <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-cnC7s0mU0oIP@Tom2>  C if my xserver has tcpip enabled, I can specify "-display node:0.0"  ! as arguments to XtAppInitialize.  9 Is there a similar way to do this with decnet transport ?    Is there a way to do    5 set display /create/trans=decnet/node=mynode/screen=1   H without DCL, means to create a working display logical from a C-programm ?    Thanks in advance.   Thomas Hahnemann S&T Systemtechnik GmbH   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:24:11 -0500 (CDT) & From: Drew Shelton <drew@sematech.org>( Subject: Re: DCL READ problem in VMS 7.3- Message-ID: <01K4ZH2O4MCW006LI1@SEMATECH.Org>   L FWIW, this occurs on our 7.2-1 machine as well.  I originally posted it as aL 7.3 problem because I didn't see it until after I upgraded my workstation toG 7.3.  Setting the parse style to TRADITIONAL fixes it on both versions.   L ============================================================================6 Drew Shelton                         drew@sematech.org9 VMS Systems Manager                  office: 512-356-7575 9 Sematech                             fax:    512-356-7600  2706 Montopolis Drive K Austin, TX 78741-6499                I speak for myself only, not Sematech. B     "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"I                                                         - Compaq, 9/22/98 L ============================================================================   >Chris Sharman wrote:  >> >> Terry Aardema wrote:  >> >G >> > BTW, I have raised this issue (in the broder context of "... you'd K >> > better double check all your .COM's for the parse_style problems ...".  >> >L >> > Finally, if you ever have an installation (VMSINSTAL or PSCI) fail, tryD >> > it again with after a SET PROCESS/PARSE_STYLE=TRADITIONAL (just >>J >> This sounds like something that could bite most of us, sooner or later.K >> Has anyone got a DCL fixing tool ? It would be a prime candidate for the 5 >> freeware area and/or the Compaq public patch area.   G >I haven't seen V7.3 yet - is there maybe a system parameter to set the  >default parsing style?   F >If not, you maybe could set it in SYLOGIN.COM. That should cover most. >situations other than detached processes, no?   >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/   ; >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  G >This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings  >is to be expected.   A >Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.   G >However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are  >strongly discouraged.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:32:45 GMTt# From: Mark Hemker <hemker@home.com>p# Subject: Re: Fibre Channel problemsn8 Message-ID: <7s51jtsqhm30173rb3r8ec1c6dtf8ju05p@4ax.com>  D I just wanted to give everyone an update on my systems.  I am tryingB to get an upgrade to the HSG80 firmware.  We are currently runningE V8.5F-0 and Compaq informed us that there is an upgrade available.  IqF am hoping to do the upgrades this weekend.  I am also going to upgradeE the firmware on the Fibre switches to the latest (I am only 1 versionrD behind on this).  The firmware on the KGPSAs and the system firmwareA are current.  Compaq also wants us to install FIBRESCSI_V0400 (we $ V0300) and the latest SYSTEM_UPDATE.  A Thanks for everyones help.  I am hoping that between all of these > patches/upgrades, the problem will be solved.  Unfortunately IE probably won't know for another 2 months.  These problems appear onceoC a month and we are moving the system in mid-July which would be theE" next expected (scheduled) problem.  
 Thanks again,  Mark@ On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:32:51 GMT, Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> wrote:   >Mark: >oH >1. Definitely make sure that your VMS systems are patched to the gills. >LI >2. Check the firmware on the KGPSAs.  Are they the 64-bit version or then >32-bit version?0 >(There was a firmware issue with the KGPSAs...) >cK >3. Make sure the firmware on your systems is current.  One of my 4100s wasu >wayyyy out of dateaG >so I had to upgrade it to the v5.9 firmware right before I went to VMSo >7.2-1.W >2H >4. My setup is very similar to yours (except that I have two 4100s).  I >don't have the interswitch E >link.  I'd take that out of the equation to keep things as simple asg
 >possible. >uH >5. I'd probably dump the zoning as well unless you have a *really* good >reason for it.e > J >We've have a config very similar to yours running for four months now and >have not seen a singlee >hiccup. >l= >Keep up up-to-date with the details of your troubleshooting.e >M >-Scott :^)d >n >Mark Hemker wrote:  > I >> Has anyone had any problems with Fibre Channel configurations and VMS?mA >> We have had 3 problems in the last 3 months that have requiredpH >> rebooting the systems.  Each occurence is about 1 month apart and theH >> only thing that appears to be the same between each occurence is thatB >> all of the drives go into Mount Verify on the hosts.  The firstI >> occurence, it appeared that one of the controllers went bad and Compaq B >> replaced it.  The second occurence, it appeared that both FibreI >> Channel switches rebooted for no apparent reason.  The third occurence I >> happened tonight and I haven't heard yet from my people what happened.eB >> From what I could see myself, all of the drives went into mountG >> verify, but the switches don't appear to have rebooted.  I will knowaF >> more in the morning.  This is getting really frustrating and CompaqG >> hasn't been able to provide any assistance.  I am hoping some of you  >> might have some ideas.O >> >> My configuration is:C2 >> 4100 and ES40 with 2 KGPSA cards in each system@ >> VMS V7.2-1, I was current on the patches as of 2-3 months ago. >> 8 and 16 port Compaq Fibre Channel Switches >> Dual HSG80 controllers. >> >> My fabric configuration is:@ >> The first KGPSA card in each system goes to the 8 port switchB >> The second KGPSA card in each system goes to the 16 port switchF >> Controller 1 port A and Controller 2 port B go to the 8 port switchG >> Controller 1 port B and Controller 2 port A go to the 16 port switcheE >> The 8 port and the 16 port switch have one connection between themD5 >> All connections on the 8 port switch are in zone 1 6 >> All connections on the 16 port switch are in zone 26 >> The ports connecting the switches are in both zones >> >> Any help is appreciated,C >> Mark Hemker >> mhemker@remember.com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:44:11 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>s Subject: Re: FreeVMS, Message-ID: <3B30544B.2C74D3E1@infopuls.com>   BERTRAND Jol wrote: >  >         Good morning,b > @ >         I have seen an old project named FreeVMS. Its goal was< > to clone VMS with a Gnu Public Licence. This project seems; > to be dead. So I research anyone that has time to restartr > this project.a >  >         Regards, > 
 >         JKBr > D > PS: I have some troubles with my news server, so you probably find > another post. Sorry...  ? After reading Hoff's post I'm not sure if you are talking aboutc the same thing.t< I had some email exchange with one of the FreeVMS people and? what I understood is that they want to build something like VMS 2 on top of a UNIX kernel (was it the mach kernel?).  7 I suggest to clarify what exactly you have in mind withg re-animating a FreeVMS project.u   I see several possibilities:    1.Get Compaq to open source vms.? 2.Buy the VMS sources and re-engineer only those parts that area$ left out for the well known reasons. 3.Reverse engineer VMS%   a) using almost the same techniquesf4   b) use modern techniques (no insulting intended!!)> 4.Build a "new" VMS which is compatible wrt API, CLI and other: blackbox attributes (blackbox in the sense that it behaves> equally but the work inside may be done completely different).  6 Any of these "options" needs a huge amount of time and
 knowledge.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 08:01:01 GMTB From: bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr (BERTRAND =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl?=) Subject: Re: FreeVMS6 Message-ID: <slrn9j0m1h.ii9.bertrand@perceval.cnam.fr>  " Le Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:44:11 +0200. Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> crivait :@ >After reading Hoff's post I'm not sure if you are talking about >the same thing.= >I had some email exchange with one of the FreeVMS people and @ >what I understood is that they want to build something like VMS3 >on top of a UNIX kernel (was it the mach kernel?).k   	It was the mach kernel.  8 >I suggest to clarify what exactly you have in mind with  >re-animating a FreeVMS project. >s >I see several possibilities:h >t! >1.Get Compaq to open source vms.   A 	It's the best solution, but I don't know if Compaq will be agree  to give VMS sources...  @ >2.Buy the VMS sources and re-engineer only those parts that are% >left out for the well known reasons.h >3.Reverse engineer VMSF& >  a) using almost the same techniques5 >  b) use modern techniques (no insulting intended!!) ? >4.Build a "new" VMS which is compatible wrt API, CLI and other ; >blackbox attributes (blackbox in the sense that it behavesq? >equally but the work inside may be done completely different).   A 	For me, a portable VMS clone is a new OS that is compatible withe= OpenVMS. So the FreeVMS project seems to be the 4th solution.uB We can reuse a microkernel to begin (as Mach4 used in the previous FreeVMS project).8  7 >Any of these "options" needs a huge amount of time andt >knowledge.o  
 	I know...   	JKB   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:10:54 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>  Subject: RE: FreeVMSL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1F9C@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>    n   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]  A > After reading Hoff's post I'm not sure if you are talking about" > the same thing.n  J Don't remember Hoff's post, myself, but I know he is aware of the project." It's likely to have been the same.  > > I had some email exchange with one of the FreeVMS people andA > what I understood is that they want to build something like VMSi4 > on top of a UNIX kernel (was it the mach kernel?).  E Sounds right to me.  It was supposed to be based on Mach.  Of course,eB strictly speaking, Mach is not really a Unix kernel, since Unix isG monolithic.  Mach has also been used to do not-quite-unix things beforeb (NeXTStep, for instance)..   > I see several possibilities:  " > 1.Get Compaq to open source vms.A > 2.Buy the VMS sources and re-engineer only those parts that arei& > left out for the well known reasons.  F If I read you right, you mean to buy the source listings, and go aboutB re-writing all the missing code/making your own build environment?  ; That's interesting.  It certainly wouldn't be "free."  :)  w   > 3.Reverse engineer VMS' >   a) using almost the same techniques 6 >   b) use modern techniques (no insulting intended!!)@ > 4.Build a "new" VMS which is compatible wrt API, CLI and other< > blackbox attributes (blackbox in the sense that it behaves@ > equally but the work inside may be done completely different).  F These two options could end up being very similar in the end.  I thinkK that's probably the best option from the standpoint of plausibility, unlessd: you really think Compaq is likely to "open source" VMS. :)  D On the other hand, if they did, maybe we could have a FreeNSK too ;)  8 > Any of these "options" needs a huge amount of time and > knowledge.  ; Certainly.  Writing an operating system isn't for wimps. :)p   Regards,   Chris     ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");o 'y   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jun 2001 23:00:08 -0700' From: piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers)e= Subject: Re: How to see who causes execessive login failures.o= Message-ID: <be44b12d.0106192200.6697e329@posting.google.com>a  H > 	It could be a noisy line. Do a $MCR LATCP SHOW PORT LTAxxxx ( I guess? > 	this increments every time ) and try to find out what devicemE > 	is causing the spurious logins. You have to "catch" the right portaC > 	in real time ( $SHOW USERS/FULL, look for <login> process(es) ).   A Well that is just my problem. I made a commandfile to execute the F command $MCR LATCP SHOW PORT whith the output to a file. But I captureB the correct LTA device, but there is still no extra information to! pinpoint to the correct terminal.    $ ana/audit/full6                        Security Audit Analysis UtilityP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------B Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on abc310,
 system id: 51D9 Auditable event:          Local interactive login failure 1 Event time:               20-JUN-2001 07:50:28.52-* PID:                      2060554E        * Process name:             _LTA8764:       * Username:                 <login>         " Process owner:            [SYSTEM]- Terminal name:            _LTA8764, _LTA8764:eF Image name:               DSA100:[SYS2.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEB Status:                   %LOGIN-F-CMDINPUT, error reading command input$   $ mcr latcp sh portr  4 Port Name  Port Type    Status         Remote Target (Node/Port/Service)i  ) _LTA8764:  Interactive  Active         //,  . > 	Check loose cables, faulty keyboard, etc...< > 	On permanent devices ( with LTA ports assigned to them ),@ > 	setting the terminal to /NOTYPEAHED ( or something similar, I= > 	haven't done this for ages ) will also "cure" the problem.h > ) > 		Hope this helps...		Cheers,     CsabaH >    ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:58:23 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>= Subject: Re: How to see who causes execessive login failures.sI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106201153010.6965-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>y  + On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Thomas H. Pauli wrote:d  C >+Assumin it's the same source causing problems, you probably might B >+want to change one of the LGI-Parameters (I dont remember which)B >+which stops including the device name in the intrusion detection >+algorithmus.  
  LGI_BRK_TERMt  =  My minor query: can you answer AFTER original text ? Thx. :)   ; BTW: COMPAQ, may be not worth changing the default to "0" ?r.  Today is hard find a site with all (or most) / Alpha/VAX-internal_RS_card-based terminals... !t    Regards - Gotfryd+ CC: to Hoff, have hope will not flame me :)r -- iE =====================================================================rF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEu. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================r   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 11:41:40 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-= Subject: Re: How to see who causes execessive login failures.r3 Message-ID: <20YRZd7Rg+GP@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  g In article <be44b12d.0106192200.6697e329@posting.google.com>, piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers) writes:n > C > Well that is just my problem. I made a commandfile to execute theoH > command $MCR LATCP SHOW PORT whith the output to a file. But I captureD > the correct LTA device, but there is still no extra information to# > pinpoint to the correct terminal.a >   @ How often are these coming?  You'll get the same data if someoneG connects and enters ^Z at the username prompt, such as if they realized> it's the wrong system.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationc= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 11:10:15 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e4 Subject: Re: I/O completion ASTs firing prematurely?3 Message-ID: <QTdIUXy53QBE@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  n In article <9gnren$ros$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) writes: > J > Well, the OSU server had a problems when running under previous versionsL > of UCX, I believe including 4.2.  From time to time, a client thread wouldI > hang because a queued I/O to the BG device would apparently get 'lost'.rL > The observed behaviour was consistent with Brian's hypothesis that the ASTJ > was being delivered without filling in the IOSB (the AST merely performsM > a condition signal which would be treated as spurious by the waiting threadc > if the IOSB was still zero). >   E With out having access to the UCX source code, I would guess that thesE socket library is doing $QIOW in more than one place.  $QIOW combines C $QIO and $SYNCH (not $WAITFR, which it used long ago), so lost IOSB F content would cause an obvious problem, but delayed IOSB content might not.  . Perhaps the original poster should try $SYNCH?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation7= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingf   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 05:36:20 -0700' From: piet@timmers-it.nl (Piet Timmers)  Subject: Listserver < Message-ID: <be44b12d.0106200436.3e9a9ea@posting.google.com>  B There used to be a way to get all postings in this group as email.   Does anyone know how?y Thanks.w   Piet Timmers   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:18:13 +0100>  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: ListserveroH Message-ID: <OF7E0F50C7.9A5330E0-ON80256A71.0048F1D8@qedi.quintiles.com>  F It is documented in item INTRO4 of the latest OpenVMS Frequently Asked
 Questions.9 This is available from the VMS web site and other places.o   Steve.   Piet Timmers asked : >>>nB There used to be a way to get all postings in this group as email. Does anyone know how?h <<<p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:46:40 -0400m  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: Listserver,4 Message-ID: <C2256A71.005BF589.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   See INTRO4 in the FAQe        , piet@timmers-it.nl on 06/20/2001 08:36:20 AM  $ Please respond to piet@timmers-it.nl   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comb cc:e Subject:  Listserver        B There used to be a way to get all postings in this group as email.   Does anyone know how?a Thanks.n   Piet Timmers   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:03:10 -0500x1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p( Subject: Re: Misuse of OpenVMS Marketing' Message-ID: <3B30C93E.C2BED3C6@fsi.net>-   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >  > Someone wrote. >  > > >m< > > >Palmer really should be the next inmate in Terre Haute. > I > Obviously you lost several billion dollars on DEC stock. Otherwise, youv, > apparently like to run your mouth off! ;-}  E People who lost both their money *AND* their jobs thanx to him, might8 share Brian's sentiment.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/(  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:54:36 +0000 (UTC)w' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)o! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationsa+ Message-ID: <9gpvdc$rdb$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>b  h In article <soMX6.1593$fi2.49660@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes: >Here are some more for you. >  >M >: >Mathworks - MATLABm > 7 >http://www.mathworks.com/products/matrix/openvms.shtml  >     J Can't say how accurate your other entries are but MATLAB is what they callN a stabilized release ie It's an old release that they don't really support any( longer with no plans for newer versions.& (Its in the same position as SUNOS 4).  ? see http://www.mathworks.com/products/matlab/requirements.shtmlt      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:23:12 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bre! Subject: Re: OpenVMS ApplicationsbL Message-ID: <OF9A08C366.FA74A66D-ON03256A71.003E6DDB@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  K The great problem with the 5000 are the "non-known" companies which develop 	 on or twoe% products - specialist - for OpenVMS !-  E I believe these small companies should merge to become more known and  consolidatew the technologies and customers.    Fabiow        C "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> em 19/06/2001 22:30:11l  > Favor responder a "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd      ! Assunto: Re: OpenVMS Applicationse    0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:I > Back in the days when there was such a thing, the only catalogue I evereD > saw of applications for VAX/VMS (yeah - that long ago) didn't evenJ > approach the 1000 mark. After more than a decade and given VMS's loss ofC > market penetration, I find that number (5000) rather difficult to 
 > swallow.  H I'm wondering if that 5000 doesn't include the Freeware stuff as well as, major in-house apps that Compaq is aware of.                  Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:27:32 -0400t; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>o! Subject: Re: OpenVMS Applicationso$ Message-ID: <3b30c112$1@news.si.com>  L >Anyone remember back during the Spring Anaheim DECUS in the early 80's when	 DECUS wasV# >selling VAX 11/725's on the cheap?s  L And our six of them are still running production board testing in our plant. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comcA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coma= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevento< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:43:03 +0000e  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comY Subject: OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions - Contract/London,City/3 monthsETMS10060 & Perr/ Message-ID: <00256A71.004B5C36.00@quegw01.btyp>    cc:h bcc:L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  M OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions - Contract/London,City/3 months ETMS10060 &s Permanent/Singapore ETMS100065    I I've been asked to pass these on to the list [I've passed one on before - 0 Singapore] so I'm doing so. Hope nobody minds...  P Perhaps one of our listees fancies a change from Chicago to Singapore? A job's a
 job you know!e   ;^Ds   Steve Spires  L   ---------------------- Forwarded by Steve Spires/YellowPages on 06/20/2001$ 02:41 PM ---------------------------    C Steve Spires <stevespires@compuserve.com> on 06/19/2001 09:18:30 PMe  # To:        Steve Spires/YellowPagess cc: M From:      Steve Spires <stevespires@compuserve.com>, 19 June 2001, 9:18 p.m.a  P OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions - Contract/London,City/3  months ETMS10060   & Permanent/Singapore ETMS100065            / -------------Forwarded Message-----------------i  ? From:     "Craig Humphreys", INTERNET:craig@eurotechnique.co.uke) To:  , INTERNET:craig@eurotechnique.co.uke   Date:     18/05/01 14:48  P RE:  OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions - Contract/London,City/3 months ETMS10060# &    Permanent/Singapore ETMS100065e    J Sorry if you have already had these 2 - but they are still open and urgent  H ETMS10060 OpenVMS Systems Manager - Contract - City - Very Senior Role -K must have EXTENSIVE X25 and SNA LU62 - plus all the usual DECNET OSI etc...  3 months IMMEDIATE  J ETMS100065 OpenVMS Systems Manager - Permanent - Singapore - This is not aH get rich quick role (approx 50,000GBP) - you will paid as a local not anC expat but great if you want a couple or years in great climate etc.-  
 Kind Regards,)   Craig HumphreysV Managing Directorr  F EuroTechnique Consulting - Specialists in IT Recruitment & ConsultancyC 61 The London Fruit & Wool Exchange, Old Spitalfields Fruit Market,f  Brushfield Street, London E1 6EX  Direct Line: +44 (0)20 7422 0909  Switchboard: +44 (0)20 7422 0900 Mobile: +44 (0)7970 212909 Fax: +44 (0)20 7247 9154  Email: craig@eurotechnique.co.uk  Website: www.eurotechnique.co.uk  K This Email and any attachments should be read only by those persons to whomhH they are addressed. The information or views expressed in this Email areI those of the individual sender and not Euro-Technique (Computer Services)'D Ltd. (EuroTechnique Consulting). EuroTechnique Consulting accepts noI responsibility for any loss or damage incurred through use of this Email. K Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, E distribution and/or publication of this email is strictly prohibited.n              H ----------------------- Internet Header --------------------------------! Sender: craig@eurotechnique.co.ukh@ Received: from btclick.com (mta02.btfusion.com [62.172.195.247])L      by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) with ESMTP id KAA28909L      for <stevespires@compuserve.com>; Fri, 18 May 2001 10:48:54 -0400 (EDT)7 Received: from WinProxy.anywhere ([213.123.182.172]) by C           btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with SMTP idu7           GDJD5D01.2AX; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:48:49 +0100BO Received: from 172.20.1.201 by 172.20.1.3 (WinProxy); Fri, 18 May 2001 15:32:17m +0000t3 From: "Craig Humphreys" <craig@eurotechnique.co.uk>S To: <craig@eurotechnique.co.uk>DJ Subject: OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions - Contract/London,City/3 months/ ETMS10060   &    Permanent/Singapore ETMS100065p% Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:47:07 +0100 = Message-ID: <FBE3F9921625D5119D650008C7B18520022B84@ETSV0001>o MIME-Version: 1.0  Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"t Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: NormalM< X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal8 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400         [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:02:08 +0000b  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comY Subject: Re: OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions - Contract/London,City/3monthsETMS10060 & l/ Message-ID: <00256A71.004D1AC2.00@quegw01.btyp>c  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza     [cut the content]l   PS  G Sorry - I forgot to take all the rubbish off the bottom of the originall
 message...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:13:46 -0300t) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions -Contract/London,City/3monthsETMS10060 & PaL Message-ID: <OF54D08C52.9E6AFE88-ON03256A71.004899BE@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  K Singapure ? So far.... dont you have positions in Lisbon or Barcelona ? :-)    Fabio.        1 Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com em 20/06/2001 11:02:08e  , Favor responder a Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComA      0 Assunto: Re: OpenVMS Systems Manager Positions -D          Contract/London,City/3monthsETMS10060 & Permanent/Singapore          ETMS100065s    F Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza4     [cut the content]2   PS  G Sorry - I forgot to take all the rubbish off the bottom of the originalL
 message...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:41:20 +0100i0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>; Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linuxr* Message-ID: <3B3061B0.36C7820D@uk.sun.com>   John Eisenschmidt wrote: >  > I guess now is not a bad time to point out the lastest round of TPC numbers came in. The winner: Oracle 9i on a GS320 running Tru64. > 3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/19805.html  >  > I'll take it.  >   7 The result was hinted at a couple of weeks ago on this -
 newsgroup.  5 I seriously doubt that it will be the leading number -7 in 3 months time since Sun, HP and IBM all have bigger Y4 boxes coming out and for example HP are starting to . set peoples expectations on a >300,000 number.   Regards  Andrew Harrison5 Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:20:50 +0100r- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> ; Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux4) Message-ID: <3B309522.9C223FF9@bbc.co.uk>1   Richard Maher wrote:   >O >OJ > For anyone in the States who is looking down the barrel of unemployment,I > just remember that, in Europe, if Compaq has retained you for more thanmL > 30secs then you have to get Butrus Butrus Gali in to remove you. (But even5 > then you can always appeal to the security council)O >e    doesn't apply to contractors, --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk	  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of, MedAS or the BBC.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:57:44 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e; Subject: Re: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux08 Message-ID: <28e1jtgclhb6h6fhvubl498k7pja89l5u3@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:20:50 +0100, Tim Llewellyn   <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:   >i >  >Richard Maher wrote:o >h >> >>K >> For anyone in the States who is looking down the barrel of unemployment,tJ >> just remember that, in Europe, if Compaq has retained you for more thanM >> 30secs then you have to get Butrus Butrus Gali in to remove you. (But even 6 >> then you can always appeal to the security council) >> >  > doesn't apply to contractors,l  E True and in any case Britain has an opt out on much of the employmento> legislation. So it's easier for a US company to make employeesF redundant in the UK than in (say) France or Germany. There have been aA number of case recently where this has happened. Motorola being a!E recent example. The counter-argument is that it is more expensive for=D companies to operate in France or Germany because of this of course.D Personally I think that if we are in the European Union (and we are)2 then the UK should adopt the same employment laws.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:11:36 +0010a% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au7O Subject: OT answering, was RE: How to see who causes execessive login failures.t5 Message-ID: <01K503ECSOVM001QV7@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Gotfryd,  > > My minor query: can you answer AFTER original text ? Thx. :)  I I agree that is nicer, usually I like to interject comment by comment as p several others (you also) do.   O However, be it before or after, I find that I quickly stop reading when a very d7 large repeat of possibly several responses are written.e  K If I've followed a thread, I can generally remember the gist with a slight -O memory jogging of what the latest poster is replying to.  If that is someone's tM habit (long repetition), then I do like to see the response above -- no more  
 scrolling.  N This cannot just be a c.o.v/info-vax thing, similar happen with the two other H newsgroups and the one other mailing list I follow.  There must be some F preferred netiquette thing out there that we should all try to follow.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,g
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiao   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,c; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:16:08 +0100i  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comR Subject: Re: OT answering, was RE: How to see who causes execessive loginfailures.H Message-ID: <OFA031F720.189DF901-ON80256A71.0037E9CB@qedi.quintiles.com>  J I know there's the nettiquette of you shouldn't have a quote that's longerK than what you are adding to the thread.  Thus, a one word answer to a threeeH page quoted message is less than desirable.  (I was guilty for this this0 morning though when responding to an HR person).  I Then again, there's also the preferred netiquette that comments your .sigeG file should be no more than 4 lines.  This saves bandwidth and helps to-@ reduce the worldwide shortage of bits, dashes, periods and otherJ punctuation.  The numer of times it gets flouted is rather large though... Steve.   Paddy wrote: >>> J There must be some preferred netiquette thing out there that we should all try to follow. <<<J   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:22:09 +0200L. From: "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>  Subject: PCSI_MENU: A draft spec3 Message-ID: <054Y6.1637$fi2.50932@news.cpqcorp.net>   C (this post 380 lines long by 72 chars. Better read with courier 10)-  	 PCSI_MENU-  F An application to learn and create installation packages with PCSI, or= convert an existing OpenVMS VMSINSTAL installation procedure.3   *************************. Functional specificationsu *************************e  E Didier.Morandi (@gmx.ch)  <-- please use this address for direct mailV version 1.0-0 6-jun-2001 D Day: 57 years already!     1. General description ======================  E The PCSI_MENU is an OpenVMS DCL command procedure and help file which- provides three functions:   = a) CAI training on the COMPAQ OpenVMS PolyCenter(tm) Softwareu    Installation utility (PCSI)   b) PCSI kit building  @ c) conversion from OpenVMS KITINSTAL.COM procedures (used by the    VMSINSTAL utility) to PCSI0    E The CAI part is provided via explanation texts before and during eachiD phase of a kit creation. The application allows verbose, brief or noF help mode. The verbose mode will cause a detailed text to be displayedG before each question, the brief mode will display a one line only text.uH A question mark at any time will display the verbose text, whatever modeC has been selected at the beginning of a session via a customizationE menu.i  E The PCSI kit building function is an interactive menu-driven process. C The user has a set of items to select to build his/her kit. Help isiF provided according to the mode selected in the customization menu. ForH each item, a context sensitive sub-menu will offer advanced features. AtF the end of an item session, part of the PCSI code necessary to build aG kit is generated. A truth table will ensure that no conflicts may occurf< from the choices of the user along the kit building session.  @ The VMSINSTAL to PCSI conversion function is mainly an automatedH translation process similar to a compiler. But each time a PCSI functionH is not available for a given VMI$CALLBACK feature, a manual interventionB from the user is flagged. At the end of the translation process, a> global text analysis of the resulting PCSI decsription file isC performed, then an interactive session is started during which somecH solutions will be suggested. These solutions come from the appendix A ofH the Polycenter Software Installation Utility Developer's Guide (documentD reference AA-Q28MC-TK dated january 1999 for OpenVMS version 7.2, orH AA-Q28MD-TK dated April 2001 for OpenVMS 7.3). This document for OpenVMSG 7.3 is available on-line from the COMPAQ OpenVMS documentation WEB siteu via the following URL:  = http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/5952/5952PRO.html.e  E Another document on PCSI, the OpenVMS System Manager's manual, may bea; useful to read. It is available too from the COMPAQ OpenVMSu documentation WEB site at:  I http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6017/6017pro_006.html#use_pcsi     B Note: The PCSI utility is an integrated part of the COMPAQ OpenVMSB operating system, introduced with OpenVMS version 6.1 in april/mayA (VAX/ALPHA) 1994. POLYCENTER was a trademark of Digital EquipmenteD Corporation (today COMPAQ) used under license by COMPUTER ASSOCIATESA (CA) for the following products bought from DEC by CA: Polycenter D Accounting Chargeback (PAC), Console Manager (PCM), Performance DataG Collector (PDC), Performance Advisor (PPA), Scheduler (PSCH) and Systema Watchdog (PSW).n  E The PCSI_MENU application is a personal midnite freeware product 100% C written by its author, without any commitment, support, warranty or F quality control whatsoever from COMPAQ Computer Corporation. COMPAQ isE in no way involved in its development and should not be contacted for , any reasons about the PCSI_MENU application.  E The PCSI_MENU code will be free of distribution and use at the user'snD own risks. A kind of support forum will be provided at the following- URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstal.r  > This software is (c) 2001 Didier Morandi, Zurich, Switzerland.    * 2. CAI training and the customization menu* ==========================================  B The training, as said, is done via explanation texts and coherenceD controls. When starting a PCSI_MENU session, the following screen is
 displayed:     [start of screen copy]  ? * Please enter your first name: * Please enter your last name :y   [clear screen]  B Hello, welcome to PCSI Menu, version 1.0-0 on 19-may-2001 14:00:00  ; * Do you wish to access the customization menu? (Y/[N]/?) :t  A (current defaults are: editor: EDT; HELP mode: VERBOSE, FRIENDLY)    [end of screen copy]    H If the user wishes to enter his/her first and last name, the applicationF will remember them for further use, and the welcome message will later read "Hello Ken, Welcome to..."2  E In the customization menu, in addition to the help mode, the user maysD choose his/her favourite editor (for the moment only EDT and TPU areG available), then "friendly" or "professional" dialog mode. The friendlyO/ mode will cause the program to say for example:n  F "Okay, now I have all I need to build that kit for you. Do you want meG to do it right now or do you wish to have a look at what I actually didl# from your answers? ([Build]/View) "y  , The professional mode text would be instead:  $ "Build or view kit? ([Build]/View) "    E Another training feature is the coherence control on the fly. When an H option is asked to the user, it generates some embedded functional rulesC which are set to boolean values TRUE or FALSE. Then, if  a mismatchjG answer is given later, the program will tell the user why the answer is-H invalid and use the context provided by the boolean rules values to giveH appropriate suggestions. Each time a PCSI feature or element is referredG to in a help text, an URL will give a link to the corresponding page of ? the on-line documentation. Should the application be used via amG DECwindows or emulator terminal, a simple CUT/PASTE will allow the userEE to have the given page instantly displayed to his/her terminal if theF, user's machine is connected to the Internet.  F Then, at the end of the kit build, eventual PCSI errors which occurredG during the Product description File (PDF) processing are trapped and ansH explanatory text is displayed from the normal PCSI HELP file via the DCL? command HELP/MESSAGE <pcsi_msg_id>. If VERBOSE mode is enabled,hF additional help is displayed after the PCSI HELP text, giving commentsD and other information on the meaning of the HELP text and correctiveC actions to perform (Note: This is a human interface choice from theDE author and does not mean in any way that the COMPAQ PCSI HELP text isi  insufficient or of bad quality).  E We also ask the user if s/he wants that we build a product_config.comu for him/her.  G When the kit is built without errors, the user is then prompted to do aaD test installation on the system s/he is working on. Since one of theB greatest features of PCSI is the REMOVE function, this function isG explained in details to the user, to help him/her to decide to actually(A perform the test installation without fear (assuming the required7C OpenVMS privileges are available in the user's process, of course).   F During the test installation, the standard output device is redirectedC to a file to be scanned and analyzed later, should the installationmE fail. All test installations are done with the /LOG qualifier to helpdG error management processing by the PCSI_MENU application. When the testlF is over, the DCL global symbol $STATUS is evaluated and the logfile isE analyzed if the completion status is different from success. For eachnH error or warning in the logfile, explanations are given to the user. TheD "inconsistent state" message is explained in details, then necessaryF actions may be performed automatically by the PCSI_MENU application toC do a clean uninstallation, even if the previous installation didn'ttD succeed (mainly by the use of an automatically generated "emergency"A .PCSI$DESC file to actually perform a safe installation then do ar REMOVE).  D Again, at any time, a question mark entered as a reply to a questionC will display the verbose help text. The help texts are in a regularvE OpenVMS help messages file, so a translation process for localization4 should be easy to perform.    " 3. The PCSI kit generator function" ==================================  H When the user starts his/her session, a main menu is displayed with mostC of the "standard" PCSI functions which may be found in a .PCSI$DESCC file. These functions are:  * a) prerequisites (mostly version checking) b) the pre configuration phase c) identifiers creation1 d) accounts creation  e) directories and ACLs creation f) files copy and ACLs creationc g) the post installation phase, h) Installation Verification Procedure (IVP)= i) messages to the system manager performing the installationB    E For the pre and post installation phases, the user is prompted for anoC already existing DCL command procedure specification, if any, or anhF editing session is started after a long explanation text (VERBOSE mode only).  C For the identifiers, accounts, directories, files and ACL phases, asH sub-menu is displayed to allow options to be added. The advantage of theC menus and submenus is that code is automatically generated with thehG right syntax (well, we hope so :-) giving better chance to have the PDFtA file correctly built and then perform an error free installation.n  D As far as files copy is concerned, the application actually asks the> user where the files are located and the PDF code is generatedH automatically from a directory listing, preventing the user to do a longF and boring session of questions/answers if there are numerous files toE include in the kit (the last PCSI kit the author built for a Customer  was 450'000 blocks big).  C The IVP may be included from an external procedure or automaticallyr generated by the application.i  D The Product Text File (PTF) is written by the user during an editing@ session once all messages entries have been included in the PDF.  G Then come the Release Notes, the Installation and User's Guide, and thetE Product Configuration Procedure editing sessions if PCSI_MENU detectseC that some of these documents are missing. The Release Notes file isoD created to be later extracted with the PRODUCT EXTRACT RELEASE_NOTESD command. The Installation and User's Guide is mainly a pre-formattedE file summarizing the OpenVMS documentation on PCSI installation.  TheVD Product Configuration Procedure is a template automatically built toE help the user during the editing session (a kind of NET$CONFIGURE.COMl but slightly shorter).    7 4. The VMSINSTAL to PCSI automatic translation functiont7 =======================================================t   Foreword --------  E This issue has been studied and discussed for ages since PCSI came to0H VMS land with OpenVMS 6.1. We do not want to give the impression that weH have discovered something new. What we actually did has been a technicalG study of both utilities, then a careful study of appendix A of the PCSI C Developper's Guide (for version 6 then version 7 of openVMS). AfteriD that, we have reached the point where we believe that, if one can doB such translation by hand, as the author did a few months ago for aH Customer, a piece of DCL code should help. Nothing else than that: HELP.  H So, how could we give such title to this chapter: "automatic translationC function"? Well, the answer is in the code and here comes the spec.H     4.1 The compiler philosophyx ---------------------------e  E If we add the KITINSTAL VMI$CALLBACK functions plus appendix A of the-F PCSI Developper's Guide plus some imagination, DCL knowledge and time,G we come to what we call the "compiler philosophy" that we would like toe word that way:  B a) if a VMI$CALLBACK has an equivalent in PCSI, let's generate the    equivalent code  E b) if it has no equivalent, either the statement is mandatory for the     installation or not  3 c) if it is not, let's forget about its translation0  G d) if it is, let's see if the code goes to the pre-configuration or the     post-installation phase  A e) then we build the pre and post DCL command procedures from thei    KITINSTAL.COM code.  F By the way, we would like to suggest COMPAQ PCSI Engineering achitectsG to consider changing the name "pre-configuration" to "pre-installation" G as it seems to be now accepted by everyone that PCSI does installationsAG and no more installation plus configuration as VMSINSTAL does. PCSI may1C deliver a product_config.com file (not necessarily, but...), so the:E config is actually done after the installation. Hence, the expressionl# "pre-configuration" is not correct.   ; Back to the translation process. Here is the comment of thelC XXX$PRE_CONFIGURE.COM file written for the Customer we talked about> previously:n   $!+a $! XXX$PRE_CONFIGURE.COM $!K $! This procedure executes all KITINSTAL.COM commands which were previouslynK $! executed before the VMI$CALLBACK PROVIDE FILE section. Functions handled L $! by PCSI have been removed. Disks logical names selection has been removedD $! because it is done once for all in the SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM
 procedure.K $! The copy phase is done by PCSI. The post installation phase is done by aaH $! new procedure, XXX$POST_INSTALL.COM. The XXX_SYSTARTUP.COM generationL $! has been removed as it's no longer dynamic, and thus the file is now part $! of the distribution kit.   > What do we see here? We have translation to corresponding PCSIE statements, generation of a pre and post installation procedures, andi
 that's it.  F Now, the next question is: what if we have a lack of information to doG the exact translation? Answer: We ASK the user. Et voila. This leads to  point number 4.2.:    % 4.2 With a little help from my friendw% -------------------------------------:  H Experience and Usenet newsgroup chats have demonstrated that there is noG way to split a KITINSTAL.COM file in three, build the pre-configurationnB procedure with part one, the .PCSI$DESC file with part two and theG post-installation procedure with part three. Why? because the KITINSTALoF procedure is a DCL program, doing what a program does: GOSUB, GOTO, IFC THEN ELSE, symbol substitution and so on. So, our approach has beennG (modestly) a kind of AI (Artificial Intelligence) approach. We scan the H KITINSTAL text and we try to figure out what can be converted to pre andD post procedures. If the scan gives no answers or fuzzy logic (I hate$ this expression :-) we ask the user.  H After a few "stupid" questions from the PCSI_MENU program, the user willF understand the philosophy of the pre and post procedures and will editC them, forgetting - maybe without notice -  that the identifiers and B account creation, directories and ACL creation and files copy wereE already removed from his/her code. Never forget that the user will be F probably the author of the KITINSTAL. S/he knows it better than we do,? better than the best "PCSI compiler" we have written within the)E PCSI_MENU procedure does. So, let's use his/her knowledge, let's (try B to) be humble and efficient, and let's ask the user about what are- his/her preferred choices in terms of coding.e  F So, where is the automatic process in all this? It is in the fact thatE we lead the user to ask him/herself the good questions to produce the.= code that we technically cannot produce by ourselves via DCL.o  ( The automatic process has three aspects:  
 o  build code & o  train the user to "think different" o  produce a valid PCSI kite  C Why is it automatic? Because should errors occur during the PRODUCT G PACKAGE command or during the PRODUCT INSTALL command, we take back thepB control of the process and we explain where are the errors, how toH correct them, then we restart the session until the kit installs without errors.f  8 This is much better than just reading the doc, isn't it?    0 4.3 The "automatic" product_config.com procedure0 ------------------------------------------------  F The scan of the KITINSTAL.COM file is simple, because all VMI$CALLBACKE instructions are easily identified. Once they have been processed, we0H may find some logical names definition and even dynamic code generation.G All this can be parsed to produce a configuration file. This is what we D do. Remember, at the beginning of a session, we ask the user if s/heB wants that we produce a product_config.com file. If we do, then anE editing session will allow the user to change what has to be changed,u4 then comes a ^Z and the configuration file is there.  G To summarize, we believe that the VMSINSTAL to PCSI evolution should bee done that way:  * I. separate installation and configuration) II. train the user to the PCSI philosophys( III. build code that can be edited later  B It is well known that it is much easier to modify a somewhat wrong) existing code than starting from scratch.n     5. Evolution ============ tbsf   [end of version 1.0-1]  8 (also posted in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstal)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:16:41 GMTS. From: "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> Subject: Re: PGP for VMS= Message-ID: <Ju0Y6.172658$I5.49519150@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>b  J Search this group's archives for information regarding v1.04 of GnuPG; theI source, U*X & Win32 bins, and docu is available at http://www.gnupg.org/.tK As of this time, it only runs on OpenVMS Alpha, but work is underway to see % if it can be converted to VAXen, too.   ( The source & Alpha exes can be found at:  ?   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/GNUPG1_0_4_VMS.ZIP      Aarons --> Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html> Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org/" "All your Probe are belong to me!"      / <dorrt@nospamsutterhealth.org> wrote in messages$ news:9go6fc$dgh$1@news.netmar.com...* > Where can I get the exe for PGP for VMS?G > I would like to provide encryption for our ALPHA's ES40's for FTP anda8 > would like to use PGP. Is PGP available for ALPHA VMS?I > I called COMPAQ pre-sales and they could not find any reference for PGPc bute( > thought I saw at one time EXE for PGP.	 > Thanks,r > Tomn >I >LF >  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the	 eb  -----rH >   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsK >    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsu< > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.nett   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:38:17 GMTA2 From: Piyush Avichal<pa@it.singer-friedlander.com>1 Subject: Problem with NFS from VMS to Win 2000/NT.5 Message-ID: <tz2Y6.2583$yp1.70735@www.newsranger.com>o  N I was wondering if someone could help me with an NFS problem that I am having.O I have a VAX running VMS 7.1 and UCX 4.1 and I am trying to access a disk on it N from my Windows 2000(with Reflections) box. I can see the mappings that I have: set up, but when I try to access them from explorer I get:A "\\nodename\sysdisk\piyush    -   The network path was not found"p  L Everything seems to be setup correctly on the vax but obviously something is) missing somewhere. Here are my settings :s  G The NFS Server is ACTIVE. There are no error messages in the log files.a  O MOUNT                 10  UDP      UCX$NFS_M        0.0.0.0             Enabled O NFS                 2049  UDP      UCX$NFS          0.0.0.0             EnabledaO PCNFS               5151  TCP,UDP  UCX$PCNFSD       0.0.0.0             EnablednO PORTMAPPER           111  TCP,UDP  UCX$PORTM        0.0.0.0             Enabled      UCX> show map  Dynamic Filesystem Map; Pathname                                Logical File Systems  / /cdrom                                  DKA400:o/ /sysdisk                                DKA300:a     UCX> show config map Filesystem Map Configuration; Pathname                                Logical File SystemC  / /cdrom                                  DKA400:t/ /sysdisk                                DKA300:w     UCX> show export  1 File System                             Host namet  ) /sysdisk/piyush                         *n     UCX> show proxyn  ; VMS User_name     Type      User_ID    Group_ID   Host_name=  3 UCX$NFS           OND             0           1   *,3 UCX$NOBODY        OND            -2          -2   *s    % Any help would be greatly appreciatedl   TIA,   Piyush.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:11:41 -0400l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: Raid Array 3000 + 2 ES40sL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2006011111410001@user-2ive7pa.dialup.mindspring.com>  A In article <3B2FC326.D9C01B54@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell  <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote:p    F > > I just scanned the V7.3 release notes.  This may be Very Bad News: > O > It is indeed!  I claim the RA3000 is a "supported device" like the HSZ80, andeJ > according to it's own management software implements SCSI LUNS above 7.  But VMSt= > apparently does not support it at present.  Nuts nuts nuts.n  J If you have a support contract, it would be a good idea to enquire throughF official channels.  If there's a LUN-support upgrade in the works, you/ might be able to get early access to something.u   -- u Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 11:45:13 GMT- From: ejheller@aol.com.nojunk (Edward Heller)nB Subject: Re: Remote connection error on OVMS 7.2 and Oracle 7.3...: Message-ID: <20010620074513.11563.00000345@ng-fc1.aol.com>   >"Phil Howell" wote:L >Something similar happened to us when we went from 7.1 to 7.2-1 and ucx 4.2
 >to tcpip 5.1TF >This is not the answer you want but we had to upgrade to oracle 7.3.4 >You may want to >$tcpip show dev /full bg6656x: >and check that the port is the same as in your .ora files >Phili; >"Edward Heller" <ejheller@aol.com.nojunk> wrote in message 5 >news:20010619102106.10170.00000082@ng-md1.aol.com... M >> First, please note that I realize this may seem like a question from 1999,wF >> however we weren't broke so we were reluctant to "fix". We recently	 >upgradediJ >> our OpenVMS Alpha from 7.1 to 7.2-1. This also included the change from >UCX to J >> TCPIP. When we did that, our Java applications that used to communicate >justcL >> fine with the Oracle database (v 7.3.2.3.2) stopped working. The listener >traceD >> file indicates that the connection from the remote application is >connecting.K >> When the shadow program is created, the IPC message returns what I thinky >is arC >> reference to Port 0. Following is that section of the trace filea >(apololgies int4 >> advance for wrap confusion - the lines are long): >> >> command = establish! >> (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=beq)(ENVS=) B >> (ARGV0=DKA200:[ORACLE7.NETWORK.ADMIN]ORASRV_NETV2_myDB.COMmyDB)? >> (ARGS='(LOCAL=NO)')(GLOBAL_DBNAME=myDB.world)(SID_NAME=myDB)oK >> (PROGRAM=DKA200:[ORACLE7.NETWORK.ADMIN]ORASRV_NETV2_myDB.COM)(TIMEOUT=0)s >> (PRESPAWN_MAX=10))d >> connecting...0 >> NT layer IPC connection has been established. >> doing connect handshake...SG >> REDIR="(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(DEV=_BG6656:)(HOST=x.x.x.x)(PORT=0))"s% >> handshake is complete; redirectingl >>L >> I do not think this is correct, however, I am at a loss as to what is the2 >> mechanism by which the port number is assigned. >>> >> Any thoughts (other than upgrading Oracle) are appreciated. >> Edward Heller >> TransCore ITS7 >> "All musings contained within are mine, mine alone."  >t  M Is there something special about port 6656? I do have two devices (BG6583 andsA BG6587) that do correspond to the ports defined in the .ORA fles.g
 Edward HellerT
 TransCore ITSe4 "All musings contained within are mine, mine alone."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:03:00 -0400p+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>i: Subject: RE: SCSI Parity Errors - Now with Added Weirdness# Message-ID: <sb3082e9.054@aaas.org>l  J Yesterday, after finishing image backups of the disks, I shut the system =J down, removed all the SCSI cabling, reseated the Personality Module, and =L recabled everything. Now, this system was not cabled the same as the other =L (as in, which SCSI controller goes to which bus) so for consistancy sake I =L recabled the system just like the other - top SCSI card to top bus (A) and =C bottom SCSI card to bottom bus (B). This, of course, meant "DKB0" =lK (formerly DKC0) was hosed, which I expected, so I booted from a 7.2-1 CD, = L formatted the disk, restored the image backups and got all the disks happy =K again. When I went home last night, all the shadow pairs were in sync, no =b* errors from any disks - happy happy happy.  K Then I made the mistake of coming in to work today. The system is doing a =nI full shadow merge on all 14 disks. I did a SHOW SYS, and the system has =AJ only been up a little over 10 hours (I rebooted it over 14 hours ago) so =I there was a reboot sometime in the middle of the night. The last time I = + rebooted the system was 20:40ish local time    Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]  5 OPERATOR.LOG;47           14  20-JUN-2001 00:30:59.01m5 OPERATOR.LOG;46            7  19-JUN-2001 20:42:46.68e  = Sure enough, a peek at the SYSTARTUP_VMS.LOG looks like this:y  G The OpenVMS system is now executing the site-specific startup commands.   * %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, ORA1 mounted on _DSA100:J %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMSUCC, _$55$DKB100: (CESIUM) is now a valid member of the = shadow`dL %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMERGE, _$55$DKC100: (CESIUM) added to the shadow set with a = merg` G %MOUNT-I-REBUILD, volume was improperly dismounted; rebuild in progressf* %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, ORA2 mounted on _DSA200:J %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMSUCC, _$55$DKB200: (CESIUM) is now a valid member of the = shadow` L %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMERGE, _$55$DKC200: (CESIUM) added to the shadow set with a = merg`sG %MOUNT-I-REBUILD, volume was improperly dismounted; rebuild in progresse ..  ; But there is no dump file, no indication of what caused it.0  K Big Q is supposed to be out today, but it's the same guy who replaced the =i= SCSI card, who is by his own admission "more of a PC guy".=20   E Did I mention I have a consultant coming in 5 hours to work on this =  system?a  D >>> "Paul Rivera" <paul.rivera@compaq.com> 06/19/2001 4:51:29 PM >>>J Recess the Personality Card/IO Module and put it back again.   It might be: the case that the personality card is not properly seated.    8 "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote in message news:sb2f7852.083@aaas.org...TG DS10 with Dual KZPCA-AA LVD SCSI Controllers connected to a 4254 disk =e shelftI with (14) disks. The seven disks on one channel of the 4254 (DKB0, 100, =  200,I 300, 400, 500, 800) are Shadowed to the seven on the other channel (DKC0,eL 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 800). The DKC side has always been a little flaky = -.H sometimes I'd reboot and the DKC disks would come up normally, sometimesH they'd come up and not be in sync (Shadow Merge), sometimes I'd boot andJ none of the DKC disks would show up - I'd have to reboot a couple times. IF logged a call with Q about nine days ago...yesterday they replaced theH KZPCA-AA attached to the naughty channel of the 4254, so I let the disksH come up and Shadow Merge. When I checked the system today, it was LOADED with Errors.   $ SHOW DEV D  H Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  = Transe Mnt,H  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks = Counta CnttJ DSA0:                   Mounted              0  ALPHA_72-1    31496290   = 216o 1 L DSA100:                 Mounted              0  ORA1          31883215     = 1a 1eL DSA200:                 Mounted              0  ORA2          35564445     = 1- 1-L DSA300:                 Mounted              0  ORA3          35564445     = 1d 1AL DSA400:                 Mounted              0  ORA4          35564445     = 1  1cL DSA500:                 Mounted              0  ORA5          35564445     = 1a 1 L DSA600:                 Mounted              0  ORA6          35564445     = 1n 1oA $55$DKB0:     (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA0:) C $55$DKB100:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA100:)uC $55$DKB200:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA200:)pC $55$DKB300:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA300:)iC $55$DKB400:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA400:)MC $55$DKB500:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA500:)gC $55$DKB800:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA600:)-. $55$DKC0:     (CESIUM)  Online             159. $55$DKC100:   (CESIUM)  Online              18. $55$DKC200:   (CESIUM)  Online              15. $55$DKC300:   (CESIUM)  Online              13. $55$DKC400:   (CESIUM)  Online               3. $55$DKC500:   (CESIUM)  Online               6. $55$DKC800:   (CESIUM)  Online               5  < When I tried to INIT one of the disks, I got a parity error:   $ INIT DKC800: ORA6R %INIT-F-PARITY, parity error $e  7 When I rebooted, some of the disks didn't even show up.U   $ SHOW DEV D  H Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  = Transe MntoH  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks = Countn CntvJ DSA0:                   Mounted              0  ALPHA_72-1    31495975   = 216r 1lL DSA100:                 Mounted              0  ORA1          31883215     = 1. 1eL DSA200:                 Mounted              0  ORA2          35564445     = 1h 1XL DSA300:                 Mounted              0  ORA3          35564445     = 1u 1hL DSA400:                 Mounted              0  ORA4          35564445     = 1t 1sL DSA500:                 Mounted              0  ORA5          35564445     = 1o 1rL DSA600:                 Mounted              0  ORA6          35564445     = 1f 1fA $55$DKB0:     (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA0:)vC $55$DKB100:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA100:)fC $55$DKB200:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA200:)aC $55$DKB300:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA300:)sC $55$DKB400:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA400:)cC $55$DKB500:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA500:)iC $55$DKB800:   (CESIUM)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA600:)r. $55$DKC0:     (CESIUM)  Online               0. $55$DKC300:   (CESIUM)  Online               1. $55$DKC500:   (CESIUM)  Online               1    D I've opened a new call with Q, but I was wondering if anyone has anyJ thoughts. I'm finishing up a round of Image backups, and then I'm going to play with the cabling.   Thanks,w John   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 04:10:15 -0700 From: rob@mkgm.com (rob murphy)C> Subject: SMTP notification messages - how do I turn them off ?= Message-ID: <9e72a7b2.0106200310.3f17d9ed@posting.google.com>e  
 Afternoon,  A Does anyone know how to turn OFF the SMTP notification messages ?   B What I want to do is stop SMTP sending out "unknown user" messagesF when the addressee is not found on the system. I had assumed there wasC some sort of parameter I could set, but having been through all thewD manuals and DSN I cannot find what I am looking for. I just want the= incoming emails to disappear into a black hole, with no errorl( notification returned to the originator.  E By the way this is TCPIP V5.0A on a VAX running V7.1 - any thoughts ?e   Cheers, 
 Rob Murphy Systems Managere Cable & Wireless   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:51:20 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>( Subject: Re: Streaming of multiple filesI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106201328320.6965-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>   ' On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, John Santos wrote:n  7 >+On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists wrote:L >++ >+> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, John Santos wrote:e [...]wI >+> >+Huh?  If PIPE worked, it would have to work by creating a temporarye >+> >+file, [...]  >+>  >+>  Huh ??rB >+>  That not first time, when have express here my surprise about= >+> the fact that PIPE may work with intermediate files... ;>- >+> ? >+>  Say us, is that by instance your self-suggestion based of   >+> the DOS knowledge ?? >+>  -:) >+F >+This is all theoretical, of course!  I haven't actually tried it ;-) >+? >+But ... I think I vaguely knew that PIPE sometimes makes tempt@ >+files to pass info between the PIPE'd programs, but doesn't it >+delete the temp files itself?e    No.8 AFAIK un*x pipe can be set to use a temporary file, but A  with "standard run" also does *not* use it. Correction welcome !   <  A DCL "original PIPE" (before some PIPE-like resolution was< made as freeware or private use) does NOT use temporary file9 and is at least not known to me any possiblity like this.   ;  PIPE uses a special implementation of mailbox (do you knowI5 what mailbox device is ? If not RTFM or ask for shortd3 description) with the MP driver, and definitely thet4 "source" process writes to the device - and the next7 process reads it. Even, if in reality the data is saved=4 only in memory :) here is NO explicite "intermediate8 memory" between the PIPE processes: the processes "sees"6 a real device IO interface, not a shared memory region4 as I see in your suggestion ! (where "memory region"< you probably supose to be swappable, "saveable" or something7 like this). No, NO gigabytes of data is saved in memorys7 or whatever, the data produced by "source" process must*0 be read by the "reader" or the source process is: "suspended" (LEF probably) to wait for place in the MPAnn: buffer.o  6 >+                    If could in fact make a suitable@ >+temp file (concatenating the 3 .PS files) and then passed that >+temp file.  6  As have say: have hear :) that in un*x *is* available8 a option to use "pipe in temporary file", but don't know6 if the file is available as you say, know that DOS for5 sure uses PIPE that way :) (then my "DOS" suggestion)r2 but AFAIK on VMS is NO way to use a non-real PIPE: *only* real pipe is available ! 6  You may NOT worry about unneded temporary file (after, procedure/process/system crash) when you use% PIPE - and that is a big advantage :)I   [...]iB >+Or maybe that was your point!  (Gotfryd, I often find your posts2 >+difficult to read, but usually worth the effort.    Och, thank you very much :)A  Imagine that sometime I have the same difficulty read a *proper*m8 English :] Hopefully here most of used terms are techno-
 centric :)  A >+  And your English is much better than many native speakers :-)o    -:)    Regards - Gotfryd   -- hE =====================================================================eF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================D   ------------------------------  / Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:46:21 +0200 (MET DST) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>5 Subject: Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market.i6 Message-ID: <200106200641.IAA01534@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  G Yesterday I red, that Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market sincetH four years. Other then Compaq, the did sold 70% more servers as the yearB before. Sun said, that they are the only one vendor, which do haveE binary compatible server scalable from 1 to 64 CPUs. Why can't Compaq F conter? First they do not say: Sun lies, we do have also server, whichF are binary compatible and scalable from 1 to 128 (True64 only I think)A or 1 to 64 with the best OS (OpenVMS), which is secure and stable J (24*365*years). Compaq present themself as PC company and not as competentE server company. They must say to the leader of the buyers, we do haveDE the best one computers (Alphas) and the best OSes (OpenVMS and may beyG True64). We have the best knowledge about e-business, network, etc. Sune& do/did the same and growth and growth.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:49:38 +0100e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>9 Subject: Re: Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market. * Message-ID: <3B3063A2.9B06C2C6@uk.sun.com>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:  >  > Hello, > I > Yesterday I red, that Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market sinceiJ > four years. Other then Compaq, the did sold 70% more servers as the yearD > before. Sun said, that they are the only one vendor, which do haveG > binary compatible server scalable from 1 to 64 CPUs. Why can't Compaq H > conter? First they do not say: Sun lies, we do have also server, whichH > are binary compatible and scalable from 1 to 128 (True64 only I think)C > or 1 to 64 with the best OS (OpenVMS), which is secure and stable:L > (24*365*years). Compaq present themself as PC company and not as competentG > server company. They must say to the leader of the buyers, we do havegG > the best one computers (Alphas) and the best OSes (OpenVMS and may beaI > True64). We have the best knowledge about e-business, network, etc. Sund( > do/did the same and growth and growth. >   ? Since they currently only support 1-32 Compaq cannot make this m= claim. You are talking about a yet to be released GS machine.u  > Appart from that your complaint is entirely justified :):):):)   Regardsw Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:21:22 +0010e% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auu9 Subject: Re: Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market.-5 Message-ID: <01K501N2FUTU001QRU@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>:  H >Yesterday I red, that Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market sinceI >four years. Other then Compaq, the did sold 70% more servers as the year.C >before. Sun said, that they are the only one vendor, which do havemF >binary compatible server scalable from 1 to 64 CPUs. Why can't CompaqG >conter? First they do not say: Sun lies, we do have also server, which7G >are binary compatible and scalable from 1 to 128 (True64 only I think)hB >or 1 to 64 with the best OS (OpenVMS), which is secure and stableK >(24*365*years). Compaq present themself as PC company and not as competent8F >server company. They must say to the leader of the buyers, we do haveF >the best one computers (Alphas) and the best OSes (OpenVMS and may beH >True64). We have the best knowledge about e-business, network, etc. Sun' >do/did the same and growth and growth.m   Rudolf,   N You are saying what many people here have said.  Compaq is still a (minor) PC  company.  N They do not know (even do not want to know) what they bought from DEC. Palmer O did not sell off enough.  All Compaq wanted was the service aspect.  They were >N lumbered with VMS (OpenVMS) and TRU64.  They seem to be more comfortable with , the latter because it is closer to doziness.  M If VMS has a future it is not in the hands of a small PC company.  They need  N to sell it to some serious contender -- are there any surviving without their  own interests?  O We see names bandied around as GM VMS this-that-or-the-other; other than their _I short term bank accounts what the hell do they do for VMS users (bigots) I around the world?.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,N
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiah   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,v; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:07:15 +0200e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> 9 Subject: Re: Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market.t) Message-ID: <3B30AE13.11357263@gtech.com>o   Rudolf Wingert wrote: I > Yesterday I red, that Sun is the leader of the UNIX server market sincedJ > four years. Other then Compaq, the did sold 70% more servers as the yearD > before. Sun said, that they are the only one vendor, which do haveG > binary compatible server scalable from 1 to 64 CPUs. Why can't CompaqSH > conter? First they do not say: Sun lies, we do have also server, whichH > are binary compatible and scalable from 1 to 128 (True64 only I think)C > or 1 to 64 with the best OS (OpenVMS), which is secure and stableaL > (24*365*years). Compaq present themself as PC company and not as competentG > server company. They must say to the leader of the buyers, we do haveoG > the best one computers (Alphas) and the best OSes (OpenVMS and may beII > True64). We have the best knowledge about e-business, network, etc. Sunu( > do/did the same and growth and growth.  7 The GS320 with 32 CPU's is the biggest Alpha available.o  8 But do not worry - it has as much power as a 64 CPU SUN.  F (apperently SUN themselves find it a bit embarrasing, so they have notE submitted SPEC rates for systems with more than 14 CPU's, but one canI	 multiply)i   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:34:08 GMTa From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..comd0 Subject: SYS$PIPEDRIVER, MPA0:, I/O Users Manual8 Message-ID: <iij1jtgq9o2mfq8ci504i0l0dvil9cq4ed@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:51:20 +0200 (CEST), "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote:   < > PIPE uses a special implementation of mailbox (do you know6 >what mailbox device is ? If not RTFM or ask for short4 >description) with the MP driver, and definitely the5 >"source" process writes to the device - and the next 8 >process reads it. Even, if in reality the data is saved5 >only in memory :) here is NO explicite "intermediateT9 >memory" between the PIPE processes: the processes "sees" 7 >a real device IO interface, not a shared memory regionE5 >as I see in your suggestion ! (where "memory region"I= >you probably supose to be swappable, "saveable" or somethingf8 >like this). No, NO gigabytes of data is saved in memory8 >or whatever, the data produced by "source" process must1 >be read by the "reader" or the source process is(; >"suspended" (LEF probably) to wait for place in the MPAnn:B >buffer.  , which brings to mind, I had wondered if the 3 I/O Users's Manual was one day going to be updated  $ w/ a description of the MP driver.    * I was interested to see how the MP driver % compared/differed the mailbox driver.o (I've no source listings...)   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 10:14:28 -07001 From: martin.ejdestig@planit.se (Martin Ejdestig)e Subject: Threads and mailboxes< Message-ID: <19468064.0106200914.69cb8e4@posting.google.com>  F I've got a couple of questions when it comes to threads and mailboxes.  D 1. Is it ok to write to a mailbox in one thread and at the same timeD read from it in another? The following code works but is it 110% ok?  $ ------------------------------------   #include <stdio.h>   #include <pthread.h>   #include <iodef.h> #include <starlet.h> #include <efndef.h>h     #define VALUE 65     typedef struct {0D     short          Status;           /* Why the *bleep* aren't there	 any    */ D     unsigned short Transfercount;    /* include files for stuff like	 this!? */y     unsigned short Terminator;!     unsigned short TerminatorLen;d } Iosb;      unsigned short Channel;      void WriteAttnAst(void *AstArg)  {g     printf("a: wake()\n");     sys$wake(0, 0);t }      void *ThreadFunc(void *Arg)o {e     Iosb ThreadIosb;     char Dest;    #     printf("t: qiow(writeattn)\n");nC     printf("t: qiow(writeattn) = %d\n", sys$qio(EFN$C_ENF, Channel,V=                                                 IO$_SETMODE | 
 IO$M_WRTATTN, C                                                 &ThreadIosb, 0, 0, lD                                                 &WriteAttnAst, 0, 0,
 0, 0, 0));     printf("t: hiber()\n");o     sys$hiber();         printf("t: qiow(read)\n");?     printf("t: qiow(read) = %d\n", sys$qiow(EFN$C_ENF, Channel,n
 IO$_READVBLK, E                                             &ThreadIosb, 0, 0, &Dest,e 1, 0, 0,3                                             0, 0));      if (Dest != VALUE)*         printf("t: DOH! Dest != VALUE\n");     else+         printf("t: WOHO! Dest == VALUE\n");0       return(NULL);4 }      int main(void) {      pthread_t ThreadId;        Iosb MainIosb;     char Source = VALUE;  "     struct timespec ts = { 3, 0 };    D     printf("m: crembx = %d\n", sys$crembx(0, &Channel, 32, 32, 0, 0, 0));  !     printf("m: create thread\n");C6     pthread_create(&ThreadId, NULL, ThreadFunc, NULL);        printf("m: delay 3 secs\n");     pthread_delay_np(&ts);       printf("m: qiow(write)\n");e@     printf("m: qiow(write) = %d\n", sys$qiow(EFN$C_ENF, Channel,F                                              IO$_WRITEVBLK | IO$M_NOW,F                                              &MainIosb, 0, 0, &Source, 1, 0, 0,4                                              0, 0));     printf("m: join thread\n"); "     pthread_join(ThreadId, NULL);        return(0); }   $ ------------------------------------   Output: $ ------------------------------------! $ cc /standard=vaxc threadsandmbxn	 $ reca li $ $ link /threads_enable threadsandmbx $ reca r $ r threadsandmbxr
 m: crembx = 1D m: create thread m: delay 3 secsy t: qiow(writeattn) t: qiow(writeattn) = 1
 t: hiber() m: qiow(write)	 a: wake()V m: qiow(write) = 1 m: join thread
 t: qiow(read)r t: qiow(read) = 1F t: WOHO! Dest == VALUE $ # -----------------------------------u    B 2. Can I only do 9999 (if I'm lucky) crembx() calls (in all procs)E like the one above before I get into trouble? What concerns me is the B following statement in "OpenVMS System Services Reference Manual":D "Mailboxes are assigned sequentially increasing numbers (from 1 to aE maximum of 9999) as they are created. When all unit numbers have been33 used, the system starts numbering again at unit 1."    Thanks in advance!   /Martin Ejdestig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:46:30 +010050 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: tt * Message-ID: <3B3062E6.F8086710@uk.sun.com>  
 nelson wrote:  >  > tt    + It was cancelled this year due to the foot 5 and mouth outbreak.    Regards  Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architect0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:35:45 +0010C% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  Subject: Re: tt$5 Message-ID: <01K5025W10LU001QS9@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>D   Andrew,5   >>nelson wrote:) >> d >> ttm >  > , >It was cancelled this year due to the foot  >and mouth outbreak.     :-)m  * Sounds more like a foot and udder disease.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:23:43 -0400n# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: tt,+ Message-ID: <3B30A3DF.F5628785@hsc.vcu.edu>h   Tu-Tu??  ;-)  
 nelson wrote:m   > tt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:35:53 -0700-% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>J Subject: Re: tt-) Message-ID: <3B30DEF9.2636D59A@rdrop.com>j   andrew harrison wrote: >  > nelson wrote:  > >o > > tt > , > It was cancelled this year due to the foot > and mouth outbreak.,  G Ah, but last I'd heard they still wanted the spectators to come out andh% spend money and *not* watch the race.t  D Just as well, probably; it's going to be really strange without Joey Dunlop.s   -- e+ Dean Woodward   |    # include <sigquote.h>u deanw@rdrop.com |gD ----------------+---------------------------------------------------= '66 Duc 250 - '85 Yam FJ1100 - '00 Kaw KLR650 - '01 Apr Falcoh   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:58:20 GMTs2 From: Piyush Avichal<pa@it.singer-friedlander.com> Subject: UCX 4.1 Documentation5 Message-ID: <0t_X6.2307$yp1.58838@www.newsranger.com>-  I Does anyone now where I can find an online copy of the TCPIP Services for,, OpenVMS Management Guide for UCX Version 4.1  L I cant find it on the Compaq website, they only seem to have v5.0+ and thats& completely different compared to v4.1.   Regards,   Piyush.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:35:49 +0200+- From: "Tzachi Nissim" <tzachi@attunity.co.il>.+ Subject: Re: Unix join utility for openvms? 0 Message-ID: <9gpn74$foc$1@news.netvision.net.il>  I If you have a C compiler you can download the source for the join utilityuI and other utilities from gnu.org and compile them on VMS. Should not be a-? big deal. Join is part of gnu's textutils which you can find ate1 ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/textutils/ (source) andh? http://www.gnu.org/directory/textutils.html (web page including) documentation).   
 Good luck. TzachiJ p.s. You can write a small awk to do something similar to join - should beI easy. Let me know if you need help -can't promise I'll have the time, butp I'll try...t  7 "Tom Reid" <thomas_p_reid@hotmail.com> wrote in messageo6 news:6dfc26f.0106190545.5bf9d63c@posting.google.com...7 > thomas_p_reid@hotmail.com (Tom Reid) wrote in messager8 news:<6dfc26f.0106190015.7e4fcaf5@posting.google.com>...G > > Coming from a  unix background I used to use the join utility a lotiH > > which does a relational type join on two or more text files. I couldI > > really do with a similar utility right now for openvms. Does any haveh( > > a port or know where I can find one? >nH > Forgot to mention that I have GAWK for openvms. Is it possible emulate > join utility using gawk?   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 04:04:38 -0700& From: Martyn.Pattison@ntl.com (Martyn)+ Subject: Re: Unix join utility for openvms?g= Message-ID: <26697816.0106200304.510cdb75@posting.google.com>p   Hi,"A    Unless you can find a freebie 'join' emulator somewhere then IeE reckon you're gonna have to write something yourself. It shouldn't be F too dificult to write something to suit one case, you could even do it! in DCL if the files are smallish.:  F As I'm into hour 7 of "Teach yourself Perl in 24 hours" I thought thisB would make a good excercise for me so I knocked this up (you couldB always install Perl for VMS and use it !). I don't pretend this isE pretty, efficient, or good Perl but I'm just learning!!!. One problemaC it has at the moment is that any record in file B but not in file AhC will be stuck on at the end, and will therefore be out of position.l( Also I wrote it on a TRU64 box, not VMS.   When run with these files:   $cat a.a A,toma B,dick C,harry,george D,bobc   $cat b.b	 A,123,000E A,999t B,456a Z,000v C,789:   it produces this output: $cat c.c
 A,tom,123,000y	 A,tom,999f
 B,dick,456 C,harry,george,789 D,bobt  
 <CUT HERE> #!/usr/bin/perl -w open (FILEA,"a.a");  open (FILEB,"b.b");e open (FILEC,">c.c");   $delimiter=",";r   @filealist=<FILEA>;f @fileblist=<FILEB>;d
 close(FILEA);n
 close(FILEB);    print "Here we go...\n\n\n";   # F # Whiz throught file A, check for matches in file b and write the recs as approrpriate. #= OUTER:.         foreach $filearec (sort(@filealist)) {                 $mached=0;!                 chomp($filearec); 7                 @afields=split(/$delimiter/,$filearec);a6                 foreach $filebrec (sort(@fileblist)) {)                         chomp($filebrec);-?                         @bfields=split(/$delimiter/,$filebrec);T:                         if  ($afields[0] eq $bfields[0]) {@                                 $sizeofbfields=scalar(@bfields);F                                 print FILEC join($delimiter,@afields),@ $delimiter, join($delimiter,@bfields[1..$sizeofbfields-1]),"\n";*                                 $mached=1;                         }d                 } 9                 print FILEC "$filearec\n" if (! $mached);a	         }1   #4A # Now whiz through file b and for any record that isn't in file aw
 print it out.s #e-         foreach $filebrec(sort(@fileblist)) {o                 $mached=0;!                 chomp($filebrec);O7                 @bfields=split(/$delimiter/,$filebrec);p6                 foreach $filearec (sort(@filealist)) {)                         chomp($filearec); ?                         @afields=split(/$delimiter/,$filearec);hC                         $mached=1 if  ($afields[0] eq $bfields[0]);                  }e9                 print FILEC "$filebrec\n" if (! $mached); 	         }o  
 close(FILEC);- print "Done \n\n\n";   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:42:43 -0400e; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>N+ Subject: Re: Unix join utility for openvms?6$ Message-ID: <3b30c4a1$1@news.si.com>  J >If you have a C compiler you can download the source for the join utility: >and other utilities from gnu.org and compile them on VMS.  F The only problem with that is the Gnu join utility doesn't do what theF original poster is asking.  It doesn't join a file split into multipleH pieces back into a single file.  In other words, it's not the partner to Gnu's split utility.  6 >Join is part of gnu's textutils which you can find at2 >ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/textutils/ (source) and@ >http://www.gnu.org/directory/textutils.html (web page including >documentation).  K Reading the page at the second URL you give makes it clear that Gnu join ine# not what the original poster wants.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comc= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventh< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:46:55 -0400d; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>-+ Subject: Re: Unix join utility for openvms?1$ Message-ID: <3b30c59d$1@news.si.com>  D >Coming from a  unix background I used to use the join utility a lotE >which does a relational type join on two or more text files. I coulddF >really do with a similar utility right now for openvms. Does any have% >a port or know where I can find one?7  J My bad!  I completely confused this message with a thread in another groupD and then stuck my foot in my mouth by telling Tzachi Nissim that hisH suggestion to use Gnu join doesn't fill the bill.  Stupid me.  The otherK thread was talking about splitting a file into pieces and rejoining it backu; again later.  I'll go stick my nose back in the corner now.h --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comCA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comh= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventp< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:50:31 GMT  From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..coma+ Subject: Re: Unix join utility for openvms? 8 Message-ID: <buk1jtc48upi9t952iuogqnu6ie75vmc6l@4ax.com>  F On 20 Jun 2001 04:04:38 -0700, Martyn.Pattison@ntl.com (Martyn) wrote:  G >As I'm into hour 7 of "Teach yourself Perl in 24 hours" I thought thisbC >would make a good excercise for me so I knocked this up (you could.C >always install Perl for VMS and use it !). I don't pretend this is F >pretty, efficient, or good Perl but I'm just learning!!!. One problemD >it has at the moment is that any record in file B but not in file AD >will be stuck on at the end, and will therefore be out of position.) >Also I wrote it on a TRU64 box, not VMS.r  @ the following links could be of interest,  inre Perl Power Tools  + ...Our goal is quite simply to reimplement x- the classic Unix command set in pure Perl ...    http://language.perl.com/ppt/1  & http://language.perl.com/ppt/what.html  0 http://language.perl.com/ppt/src/join/index.html   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:24:54 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>: Subject: Re: VMS->unix mail converter that works on 7.2-1?I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106201317390.6965-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>   # On 14 Jun 2001, David Mathog wrote:3   >+Hi,1 >+K >+The v2u_mail.for_v3 program I picked up from Arne's site doesn't work on l >+OpenVMS 7.2-1.  [...]mN >+I've also been looking at the output from MAIL's EXTRACT command, and think N >+that that's going to be really messy because files forwarded within the VMS J >+mail system end up with multiple sets of headers for each message.  MostN >+are now in the body, but that's going to be painful to figure out after the  >+fact with a script.   )  You are for sure look in the output ? ;)r<  Have check that both MAIL and MAIL/OLD selected EXTRACT/ALL< has the "master" (means: real) headers separated with <FF> !8  The forwarded header are not (prepended with FormFeed).=  Use EDT to check the contens of extracted file :) (och, yes,l) probably have start a vms-editor-war :)!)I9  Simple loop of DCL READs with check for <FF>-only recorde; (and if the next starts with "From: ") may be enought.... !     Regards - Gotfryd   -- eE =====================================================================sF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEe. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:01:29 +0200j> From: "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>+ Subject: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachableW. Message-ID: <9gphlb$933$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  
 Hi all ...  B Unable to reach openvms web site from several ISPs here in France.) Does anybody encounter the same problem ?l   Cordialement Jean-Francois Marchals   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 07:37:06 GMTc4 From: "Henry Miller" <henry.miller@worldnet.att.net>/ Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachablelE Message-ID: <CoYX6.1163$kx3.97744@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>e  I "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote in messagea( news:9gphlb$933$1@reader1.imaginet.fr... > Hi all ... >mD > Unable to reach openvms web site from several ISPs here in France.+ > Does anybody encounter the same problem ?t >s > Cordialement > Jean-Francois Marchalp >u >  Jean-Francois,  H     It appears to be unaccessable from the US as well, at least from the# ATT network.  I would suggest that:e   1)    The host is down.   / 2)    The host is up, but the servers are down.   B 3)    The host and servers are up, but the network access is being: blocked by a gateway, probably somewhere within the Compaq internal network.a    >     Maybe someone inside of Compaq can shed some light?  Best,   -HWM   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 04:16:30 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachableg, Message-ID: <3B305BD6.24BAA383@videotron.ca>  K > "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote in messageoF > > Unable to reach openvms web site from several ISPs here in France.- > > Does anybody encounter the same problem ?-  5 Same from Canada as of 08:11 GMT. Traceroute stops att compaq-gw.customer.alter.net    7 Same happens when I try to traceroute to www.compaq.comU   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:14:00 +0200h+ From: Jimmi Aakjaer <aakjaer@post7.tele.dk>n/ Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachablet8 Message-ID: <k8q0jtsbbeghibo5eocuam6qkr02cottmq@4ax.com>  ; On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:01:29 +0200, "Jean-Francois Marchal"a' <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote:g   >Hi all ...n >"C >Unable to reach openvms web site from several ISPs here in France.A* >Does anybody encounter the same problem ? > 
 >Cordialement" >Jean-Francois Marchal >  No problems from Denmark      www.openvms.compaq.com	OK    www.compaq.com		OK   	 :-) Jimmi         ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:16:06 +0200 > From: "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>/ Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable0. Message-ID: <9gpt2a$dc0$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  $ the problem seems to have been fixed  E "Jimmi Aakjaer" <aakjaer@post7.tele.dk> a crit dans le message news:_- k8q0jtsbbeghibo5eocuam6qkr02cottmq@4ax.com... = > On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:01:29 +0200, "Jean-Francois Marchal" ) > <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote:( >t
 > >Hi all ...  > >rE > >Unable to reach openvms web site from several ISPs here in France.s, > >Does anybody encounter the same problem ? > >  > >Cordialement  > >Jean-Francois Marchal > >o > No problems from Denmark >  >    www.openvms.compaq.com OK >    www.compaq.com OK >f > :-) Jimmi  >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:32:13 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> / Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachable38 Message-ID: <57r0jtk9rp7qrmkbuk8dm742h4qca23ron@4ax.com>  ; On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:01:29 +0200, "Jean-Francois Marchal"E' <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote:    >Hi all ...  > C >Unable to reach openvms web site from several ISPs here in France. * >Does anybody encounter the same problem ?  F I can confirm I can access it at 10:30:00 +0100 (ie 9:30 GMT or 2.5hrs@ after your post). I'm accessing via a private WAN link to our US	 firewall.-    
 >Cordialement- >Jean-Francois Marchal >-   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 12:09:07 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com unreachablee3 Message-ID: <2fEeiqHwGrOd@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  o In article <9gphlb$933$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:d > Hi all ... > D > Unable to reach openvms web site from several ISPs here in France.+ > Does anybody encounter the same problem ?  >  > Cordialement > Jean-Francois Marchaln  1 It's working here in the eastern US at 12:07 EDT.m  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingr   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 03:15:54 -0700- From: oliver.bauer@xoology.com (Oliver Bauer)e- Subject: Re: XML Import / Export for OpenVMS?-= Message-ID: <fbc7b86c.0106200215.4758e009@posting.google.com>   ~ "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<CJRX6.20971$i03.5405784@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>...N > We currently are in search of a utility to import and export data files fromK > clients to our VMS system.  We need to import from XML to RMS file format0C > and from RMS back to XML format.  If we have to go to a text file> > intermediate > format, that would be ok too.t > G > Does anyone have suggestions or experience with products that do this 1 > without using a PC or Unix box in the solution?- > M > I know we could write our own translator, but we would like to see if thereeJ > is something off-the-shelf that would do the job at a reasonable cost... > 
 > Regards, > Tome   I believe this should do it.B http://www.xoology.com/concertox/xoology/home/product/openvms.html  J Let me know if you want see this in a live demo (via the web) let me know.   regards,   Oliver   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:19:22 GMTd. From: "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com>- Subject: Re: XML Import / Export for OpenVMS?t= Message-ID: <ex0Y6.172674$I5.49521353@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>    Here's a new one: XML for RMS.  (  http://www.accelr8.com/vms/xml4rms.html  J I don't use the product, I was just made aware of it the other day.  YMMV, TNSTAAFL, ETC.   Aaron- --> Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html> Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org/" "All your Probe are belong to me!"  8 Tom Simpson <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> wrote in messageA news:CJRX6.20971$i03.5405784@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net...0I > We currently are in search of a utility to import and export data filesi fromK > clients to our VMS system.  We need to import from XML to RMS file format C > and from RMS back to XML format.  If we have to go to a text filed > intermediate > format, that would be ok too.  >aG > Does anyone have suggestions or experience with products that do this01 > without using a PC or Unix box in the solution?t >iG > I know we could write our own translator, but we would like to see ifp there$J > is something off-the-shelf that would do the job at a reasonable cost... >e
 > Regards, > Tomt >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 02:17:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <3B303FF3.8CCE0F23@videotron.ca>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote:G >    Given that it's a 15 minute drive to work ( 10 if I hit the lightsuI > right ) I don't worry too much about gas consumption - I'm contributingeJ > a lot less to pollution than the folks who choose to have commutes of an= > hour or more each way - regardless of what they're driving.o  L Actually, your contribute to pollution much more than you think. By being onK the roads for a few kilometres, you slow down traffic during that distance,.< and all those cars spend more fuel because of your presence.  L Secondly, if you really do live close to work, you might consider walking orL cycling to work. The extra few minutes you spend going to and back from workL will be put to good use (exercise) whereas the time you spend in your car is totally non-productive.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:21:55 +0100-0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change* Message-ID: <3B305D23.4EEDAB59@uk.sun.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:2 > @ > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message( > news:LoMThIGw9g7D@malvm5.mala.bc.ca...@ > > In article <FZPX6.5057$P46.3174891@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,= > >    "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > > L > > > A 100 percent excise tax on gas-guzzling, ultrapolluting Sport UtilityJ > > > Vehicles would be a damn good place to start reducing greenhouse gas > > > emissions. > > >  > >    Doing a little trolling?l > J > Hell no! I detest those behemoths. Perhaps ten percent of the owners canI > actually justify the things. And note that since they are classified asaF > "light trucks" vice cars, they are exempt from mileage and pollution1 > restrictions. Guess that makes Detroit happy...i > K > What I really like are the Ford Exploders and Aspersions that sport "savei- > the environment" bumper stickers, hehehehe!0  , Do the people who put these stickers on the , Ford Exploders put them on upside down after/ all you do want people to be able to read them.   . The really sad thing about this kind of SUV is2 that they are pretty crap off-road. They may give 0 you better ground clearance but thats about it.    regards  Andrew Harrisonl Enterprise IT Architectr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:28:59 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change* Message-ID: <3B305ECB.97EF0027@uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:m >  > Malcolm Dunnett wrote:I > >    Given that it's a 15 minute drive to work ( 10 if I hit the lightseK > > right ) I don't worry too much about gas consumption - I'm contributing L > > a lot less to pollution than the folks who choose to have commutes of an? > > hour or more each way - regardless of what they're driving.  > N > Actually, your contribute to pollution much more than you think. By being onM > the roads for a few kilometres, you slow down traffic during that distance,s> > and all those cars spend more fuel because of your presence. > N > Secondly, if you really do live close to work, you might consider walking orN > cycling to work. The extra few minutes you spend going to and back from workN > will be put to good use (exercise) whereas the time you spend in your car is > totally non-productive.m  : Thirdly the catalyst in your car never heats up enough to ; be effective making your ten minutes relatively worse than e a longer journey.(     Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:39:43 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change< Message-ID: <3Y%X6.2243$wU6.2646272@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message& news:f$ni5cLIxm1I@malvm5.mala.bc.ca...> > In article <y5VX6.2084$wU6.2494845@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,< >     "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:   >-A >    Relax Terry, save that energy for fighting the good fight too > save VMS :-)  L As I said, VMS is a nonpolluting OS. It contains none of the foul pollutants found in Windoze98!m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:39:40 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change< Message-ID: <0Y%X6.2242$wU6.2646194@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:5.1.0.14.2.20010619220017.03b86b78@ntbsod.psccos.com...( > At 09:21 PM 6/19/2001, JF Mezei wrote: > >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:G > > > Hey, I drive so little that it matters not to me. But I'm sure itn > > matters toJ > > > cab drivers, truckers, and others who make their living on the road. > >iG > >This is why taxing the fuel is better than letting the gas companies  gougevL > >customers. With a government tax, the government can give the tax back toK > >public transit operators (including cab drivers, trucklers, airlines and  > >farmers). > L > "Can" and "do" are 2 different things.  The government doesn't give a good d**nJ > about any of those.  I know, my wife's family are farmers, and I used to work > for an airline.i >fF > But before you talk "gouging", the main "gouging" is going on by the
 > government.   3 You are preaching to the choir. I am a libertarian.i  L > If you got rid of 90% of the 95 different formulations of gasoline the EPAG > requires, then cut the federal and state taxes out, you would cut thei price of > gasoline by probably 50%.s  L Given what I know of the cost of a BBL o' crude, plus the refining cost, you are correct. >cK > Oil company gouging?  Probably, to some extent.  But certainly not to the  vast2 > extent that many people seem to want to believe. >o  L I believe there is some price manipulation on the part of the oil companies.F Have a friend in the business who maintains that there is a record low  number of operational wellheads.  I The portion of the govt tax on fuel that is dedicated to highways doesn't I really bother me. It's what they do with the rest of the take. Kinda likepE the Smoking Settlement. They use those billions for transfer paymentsmH (health care for kiddies, etc, etc) not for smoking cessation. And so it goes!r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:44:56 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change< Message-ID: <Y00Y6.2246$wU6.2648099@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messageu$ news:3B305D23.4EEDAB59@uk.sun.com... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:a > >   G > > What I really like are the Ford Exploders and Aspersions that sportc "saver/ > > the environment" bumper stickers, hehehehe!  > - > Do the people who put these stickers on theb. > Ford Exploders put them on upside down after1 > all you do want people to be able to read them.t   Touche!R   >o0 > The really sad thing about this kind of SUV is3 > that they are pretty crap off-road. They may givee1 > you better ground clearance but thats about it.s >i  K I am told that the older Land Rovers and Nissan Patrols are decent off-roadpK vehicles. The generic SUV, with its oh-so-svelte compound curves and chrome-F trim (not to mention the ever-popular and incredibly utilitarian BrushH Guards) is basically a pickup truck with an extended body. And of course+ plenty of Cupholders. Worth squat off-road.e  E Didn't see many of these things during my visit to the UK last month,  Andrew! ;-}0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:35:20 +0100k- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>n  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change) Message-ID: <3B309888.439B055E@bbc.co.uk>T   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t  K > " But as for Soccer Mom on her Big Excursion to the Supermarket, well, yas? > gotta wonder. I can think of better things to do with 40-50K.t  I It may look like 40-50k to you but if its anything like over here its allh> on the never-never, car mortage, whatever you like to call it.  @ Those with real cash have far more taste than to buy a Ford :-).     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uky  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:48:41 -0400.2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate changeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2006011048420001@user-2ive7pa.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <0Y%X6.2242$wU6.2646194@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.+ Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:=    H > > But before you talk "gouging", the main "gouging" is going on by the > > government.  > 5 > You are preaching to the choir. I am a libertarian.r  H Gadzooks!  You're a libertarian?!?  What were you a few minutes ago when@ you were calling for a 100% excise tax on the vehicles you don'tF personally approve of?  Has someone else been posting under your name?    cN > I believe there is some price manipulation on the part of the oil companies.H > Have a friend in the business who maintains that there is a record low" > number of operational wellheads.  E Probably the profit on operating those wells has been at a record low6H also, up until the recent shake-up.  Is it "manipulation" to mothball an. enterprise when it's not making you any money?  G They can't start production back up overnight. And there probably isn'tb= enough refining capacity, which takes even longer to ramp up.    -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:59:26 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change' Message-ID: <3B30C85E.CDC09E68@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:hC > The generic SUV, with its oh-so-svelte compound curves and chrometH > trim (not to mention the ever-popular and incredibly utilitarian BrushJ > Guards) is basically a pickup truck with an extended body. And of course- > plenty of Cupholders. Worth squat off-road.-  E The "point", if there is one, of so-called Sport-Utility Vehicles hasfF little or nothing to do with off-road capabilities, especially here inA the central plains where open land is usually privately owned andn1 "off-roading" would be tantamount to trespassing.e  D Of course, we've already covered the topics of heavy snow and "high" water.  H The "point", if there is one, of so-called Sport-Utility Vehicles has toC do with the perception of safety when you have a large, high-stance B vehicle around you as opposed to a small, egg-shaped (Ford Aspire)F under-powered go-cart sitting barely eight inches off the ground (your@ seat is not much higher) and weighing in at slightly more than aD single-engine light aircraft - four average, non-athletes can easily9 lift one (either the car or the plane, take your choice).n  @ Notice: I said, "Perception". What humans do is effected more by perceptions than by reality.   -- b David J. DachteraI dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/k  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:20:07 GMTm From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..comk  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change8 Message-ID: <p2j1jt016ogj255nvt038b5pmvgi8trl31@4ax.com>  3 On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:21:55 +0100, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:r   >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote: >> tA >> "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in messagev) >> news:LoMThIGw9g7D@malvm5.mala.bc.ca... A >> > In article <FZPX6.5057$P46.3174891@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,o> >> >    "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >> >M >> > > A 100 percent excise tax on gas-guzzling, ultrapolluting Sport Utility-K >> > > Vehicles would be a damn good place to start reducing greenhouse gasi >> > > emissions.j >> > >  >> >    Doing a little trolling? >> eK >> Hell no! I detest those behemoths. Perhaps ten percent of the owners can J >> actually justify the things. And note that since they are classified asG >> "light trucks" vice cars, they are exempt from mileage and pollutionl2 >> restrictions. Guess that makes Detroit happy... >> pL >> What I really like are the Ford Exploders and Aspersions that sport "save. >> the environment" bumper stickers, hehehehe! > - >Do the people who put these stickers on the n- >Ford Exploders put them on upside down after-0 >all you do want people to be able to read them. >0/ >The really sad thing about this kind of SUV isK3 >that they are pretty crap off-road. They may give a1 >you better ground clearance but thats about it. e >g	 >regards t >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect  3 and most (all?) of them with cast Aluminum wheels !r  - which says to me, that most SUV owners don't m* expect to ever take the them off-road ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:23:50 +0100F% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change8 Message-ID: <v7f1jt038qush3o3g59e13oqfh30lv48bc@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:48:41 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robertt Deininger) wrote:g   >fF >Probably the profit on operating those wells has been at a record lowI >also, up until the recent shake-up.  Is it "manipulation" to mothball an-/ >enterprise when it's not making you any money?r  C Yes it was at a record low and that was a reasonable reason to takerB marginal wells offline. Once the price rocketed again the marginalD wells did not come back online even though many were in standby modeB (roughly 1 to 14 days to bring online IIRC).  People in the US didE start querying why so many rigs were down with the price sky high andeE the US active rig count then started to recover as did new work. What E hasn't gone back up to previous levels is worldwide active rig count. D and worldwide new rig work ( a cynic would suggest that it is harderC to notice a pattern distributed around the world than one in the US B oil fields). In fact some new work has been delayed even further -F reason given "we need to complete our merger work first". Well yes and no...i  B End result was that major oil companies have actually been able to? increase turnover and profits while significantly reducing worko/ performed. Great for shareholders I will admit.l   >eH >They can't start production back up overnight. And there probably isn't> >enough refining capacity, which takes even longer to ramp up.  E Actually they can ramp production almost overnight as a set number of.F rigs are always in "standby" mode. I can't speak for refining capacity< but I don't think that's a serious problem worldwide as bothE production and consumption of refined products are still considerably  below peak values.  = Maximum production likely to be reached again in 6-12 months.  -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:44:31 +0000l  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change/ Message-ID: <00256A71.005F3756.00@quegw01.btyp>.  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    $ [Is it "manipulation" to mothball an/ enterprise when it's not making you any money?]e  L Well, yes. Isn't that the problem? OPEC manipulating production to raise oil7 prices when they need a few more Ferarri's or whatever.    Steve St        F rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) on 06/20/2001 02:48:41 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)nP From:      rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger), 20 June 2001, 2:48 p.m.   Re: [OT] Climate change$        F In article <0Y%X6.2242$wU6.2646194@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.+ Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:-    H > > But before you talk "gouging", the main "gouging" is going on by the > > government.e >o5 > You are preaching to the choir. I am a libertarian.3  H Gadzooks!  You're a libertarian?!?  What were you a few minutes ago when@ you were calling for a 100% excise tax on the vehicles you don'tF personally approve of?  Has someone else been posting under your name?    N > I believe there is some price manipulation on the part of the oil companies.H > Have a friend in the business who maintains that there is a record low" > number of operational wellheads.  E Probably the profit on operating those wells has been at a record low H also, up until the recent shake-up.  Is it "manipulation" to mothball an. enterprise when it's not making you any money?  G They can't start production back up overnight. And there probably isn'tm= enough refining capacity, which takes even longer to ramp up.o   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:42:28 -0700 + From: Linda Luik <p14175@email.sps.mot.com>w  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change1 Message-ID: <3B30D274.CD8C20DA@email.sps.mot.com>3   > >.1 > >The really sad thing about this kind of SUV is 4 > >that they are pretty crap off-road. They may give2 > >you better ground clearance but thats about it. > > 
 > >regards > >Andrew Harrison > >Enterprise IT Architect > 5 > and most (all?) of them with cast Aluminum wheels !  > . > which says to me, that most SUV owners don't+ > expect to ever take the them off-road ...   C Which is a good thing! The trails would be awfully crowded. There's D enough yahoos out there messing things up for the rest of us who areF reponsible, evnironmentally sensitive 4-wheelers. Yes, There is such aC thing! Guess who picks up the crap hikers and mountain bikers, etc.aC leave behind on the trails because they don't want to haul it out? u  D 4-wheeling, for me, is decompression after a lousy week at work. And& there have been a lot of those lately!     when will this thread end?   Linda Luik bF 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee (excessively modified) -- been 4-wheeling for almost 20 yearss   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 16:44:19 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)d  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <9gqjt3$2fhj$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  @ In article <DZBX6.101460$%i7.75567406@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>,.  "Nikita V. Belenki" <public@kits.net> writes:A |> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagei) |> news:9glaft$2qp6$3@info.cs.uofs.edu...: |>  J |> > Is it not also just as likely that if the rainforest in Brazil wasn'tI |> > being destroyed for no particularly good reason that the earth mightt@ |> > in fact be able to consume all that CO2 int he first place. |> oJ |> Rainforests don't consume CO2, because they don't produce anything likeL |> coal, turf or limestone. Their ability to bind carbon is limited to their< |> biomass, and the density of such biomass is quite stable.  D So then all those biology classes about chlorophyll and green plantsF were just plain wrong??  Somebody should tell the Audobon Society.  NoA reason to plant all those trees if they don't do anything anyway.    bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 17:27:14 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <9gqmdi$2gt0$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <f$ni5cLIxm1I@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>,4  nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: |> a |> mH |>    Given that it's a 15 minute drive to work ( 10 if I hit the lightsJ |> right ) I don't worry too much about gas consumption - I'm contributingK |> a lot less to pollution than the folks who choose to have commutes of ane> |> hour or more each way - regardless of what they're driving.  H Choose??  I would like nothing better than to be able to ride my bicycleJ back and forth to work.  Sadly, there are no places anywhere within bikingI distance of my house that could even match the pitiful salary I have now.nG And no, I don't live in suburbia.  I live in a totally urban area.  The1I majority of the jobs within biking distance are minimum wage retail sales:H and burger flipping.  There are not 10 jobs equivalent to mine within 50H miles of here.  And if I concentrated on VMS, you could move that circleG out to over 100 miles.  The distance between where we live and where we9K work is not always as controllable as some would like to think.  Of course,iE it's been worse.  I used to live here and work in Maryland, 240 miles  away.v   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 17:32:37 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <9gqmnl$2gt0$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   In more than one article,k:     "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: |> i  |> > > A 100 percent excise tax  |>6 |> You are preaching to the choir. I am a libertarian. |>  ? Rather a strange sentiment for a libertarian, don't you think??    bill   -- AJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   b   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:45:47 -0400p+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>v  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change# Message-ID: <sb30a92a.061@aaas.org>a  H The argument that is found again and again in the DC area is public vs =I private transportation. I could link to 1000 Dr. Gridlock articles that =eJ are all the same theme "I drive my SUV 2 hours one way from Reston to DC =I because I don't want to take a bus to the Metro" OR "I take Metro and I =nJ hate my coworkers who are always late because of traffic". The news last =K night was nothing but a bunch of people in Maryland whining about wanting =,I a new bridge because it takes too long to get from Maryland to Virginia =. (which is true).  G When I lived in Upstate New York, I drove everywhere. When I moved to =nG Virginia, I started taking the subway to work because I don't have to = F fight traffic or worry how much gas is. I drive a fair amount, but I =G haven't put gas in my 4 cyl 4 door compact car (I refuse to say which =rL brand because I believe Americans shouldn't be allowed to build cars - and =J I should be shot for buying my last American car). I'm thinking about an = Insight for my next car.  I Frankly, until gas in America hits the $2+ per gallon mark I'm not even =oF going to blink. I feel for the Europeans who pay a lot more than that.  L The problem is that suburban areas have gone urban, and there is no public =K transportation infastructure to support it. Worse are the people who want =eJ to ride their bike but won't or can't on a 6 lane highway. I work with a =J dozen people who bike, many many more who walk...it all depends on where =	 you live.   # And I'll swallow my comments whole.r  I >>> Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> 06/20/2001 1:27:14 PM >>>t, In article <f$ni5cLIxm1I@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>,4  nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: |>=202 |>=200H |>    Given that it's a 15 minute drive to work ( 10 if I hit the lightsJ |> right ) I don't worry too much about gas consumption - I'm contributingJ |> a lot less to pollution than the folks who choose to have commutes of = an> |> hour or more each way - regardless of what they're driving.  H Choose??  I would like nothing better than to be able to ride my bicycleJ back and forth to work.  Sadly, there are no places anywhere within bikingI distance of my house that could even match the pitiful salary I have now.FG And no, I don't live in suburbia.  I live in a totally urban area.  The I majority of the jobs within biking distance are minimum wage retail salesoH and burger flipping.  There are not 10 jobs equivalent to mine within 50H miles of here.  And if I concentrated on VMS, you could move that circleG out to over 100 miles.  The distance between where we live and where wegE work is not always as controllable as some would like to think.  Of =  course,DE it's been worse.  I used to live here and work in Maryland, 240 milesn away.e   bill   --=202J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |C Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:20:16 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>x2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <jmm0jtsfhvrtihdhthikps5rq11465dm9c@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:16:14 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert. Deininger) wrote:n  J >In article <3B2F422A.25545FED@uk.sun.com>, Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM wrote: >e > / >> It was if I recollect a ratification of the l1 >> treaty of Nice. According to all the reportagec/ >> the primary issue was enlargement, but this n/ >> could have been a UK presses slant on Irish   >> politics. >tG >I read a few days ago that Ireland has someone titled "commissioner of G >referendums" or some such.  This official wrote a blurb about the Nice C >treaty, giving both sides of the issue, and it was mailed to every C >household.  The article I read claimed that EU enlargement was notoH >mentioned.  For what it's worth.  I'm certainly not close to first-hand
 >information.   E From what I've read the "yes" campaign hardly bothered to do anythingcB assuming an automatic win as Ireland has the highest percentage ofD satisfaction with EU membership of any country. There was a very lowC turnout and the "no" votes consisted of an unlikely alliance of far C right, far left, SInn Fein (IRA political wing) etc, There was someUE suggestion that Ireland's traditional  neutraility could also be lostsC due to the setting up of such things as the European rapid reactionr> force. Re-assurances on this are likely to be given before theD referendum is put to the people again. The Irish government has saidF it will re-introduce the referendum after the election next year which it is expected to win. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:47:56 +0200u7 From: "Martin.Knoblauch" <Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de>o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?+ Message-ID: <3B30714C.2F0CB071@TeraPort.de>h   Alan Greig wrote:r > G > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:16:14 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Roberty > Deininger) wrote:e >  > G > From what I've read the "yes" campaign hardly bothered to do anythingnD > assuming an automatic win as Ireland has the highest percentage of  H  hey, that brings us back to VMS relevance. Arrogance combined stupid or no marketing :-)   Martin --  B ------------------------------------------------------------------B Martin Knoblauch         |    email:  Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de7 TeraPort GmbH            |    Phone:  +49-89-510857-309p7 C+ITS                    |    Fax:    +49-89-510857-111o5 http://www.teraport.de   |    Mobile: +49-170-4904759-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:07:23 +0200B+ From: Maarten van Tilburg <mtilburg@wxs.nl>l2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?& Message-ID: <3B3083EB.D6B701D1@wxs.nl>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > z > In article <OF8DE625C3.5D8A896D-ON03256A70.0040CC2D@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:A > >And nobody outside South-America knows anything about Brazil !>4 > >They only know my country:  carnival and soccer ! >   G Based on own experience (living in the Netherlands, my wife is from Rio  de Janeiro), I agree with Fabion  ? > Don't forget the Copa Cabana and the sugarhat (sp?) mountain.   @ That should be Copacabana (one word) and Sugar Loaf (Pao Azucar)D BTW, the one with the (well-known) Christ on top is called Corcovado  L > And don't forget Brasilia, the first capital city built on a green meadow. > ;-)   H I did not see a green meadow, its rather dry and hence mainly -red- (the soil, that is)   > G > btw: What is soccer ? It every country outside the USA, it was calledpH > football (and the US people played _only_ American Football). Now thatI > the US people do play the real football game, too, they decided to find M > another name for this (playing ball with the feet - and not with hands ;-). G > And since then (many years ago) every country is now badly influenced ' > to call this game SOCCER (hawk spit).a >h  7 nope, we call it voetbal, and in Brazil it is futebol. r   Maartenn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:28:06 +0000A  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?/ Message-ID: <00256A71.004F7B46.00@quegw01.btyp>   L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza      	 Tim said;F  M "Anyway, must be because you don't play cricket :-). Sure got the climate forg it."  K Yes, and we have neither the climate nor the cricket in the UK right now...4   ;^Di  F Although Fabio, if you have the opportunity take a look at the currentA triangular series in England right now for some exciting cricket.n   Steve Se   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 11:14:36 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <4qzOBlnjXF73@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  W In article <3b2f5bf9$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:u  G > btw: What is soccer ? It every country outside the USA, it was callediH > football (and the US people played _only_ American Football). Now thatI > the US people do play the real football game, too, they decided to finduM > another name for this (playing ball with the feet - and not with hands ;-).kG > And since then (many years ago) every country is now badly influencede' > to call this game SOCCER (hawk spit).i  F At least when we say soccer, everyone knows what we're talking about. G I'd venture a guess the British press will someday get tired of talking G about "football" and "American football", and the Queen's English will a$ follow (or will it be king by then).  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationb= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouptE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 11:38:49 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?3 Message-ID: <ECUvf9PuPWsa@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  [ In article <3B2F9B08.B12E6EB@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:- > K > One can argue about the quality of the USA's culture, but you can't arguev > about its strength.   K > The USA is unaware of this because almost all of its "culture" comes fromp	 > within.c  > Piza, spaghetti, crpes, mu gu gai pan, sushi, flan, bikinis, @ the Fab Four, William Shatner, Lynn Johnston, beer, and English?   These are all our fault now?  H Actually we are well aware of the influence our culture is having on theE rest of the world.  You didn't think we were going to try to takeovert7 using only the old worn out military approach, did you?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationc= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupaE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingo   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:40:51 +0000u  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com2 Subject: re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?/ Message-ID: <00256A71.005F26A3.00@quegw01.btyp>r  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    M Well, given that the British press don't often talk about American Football Ia think that's unlikely.   Steve So        A koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) on 06/20/2001 04:14:36 PM     To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)tK From:      koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler), 20 June 2001, 4:14 p.m.o  ) re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?c        O In article <3b2f5bf9$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)p writes:   G > btw: What is soccer ? It every country outside the USA, it was callediH > football (and the US people played _only_ American Football). Now thatI > the US people do play the real football game, too, they decided to find M > another name for this (playing ball with the feet - and not with hands ;-). G > And since then (many years ago) every country is now badly influenced ' > to call this game SOCCER (hawk spit).m  E At least when we say soccer, everyone knows what we're talking about.tG I'd venture a guess the British press will someday get tired of talkingeF about "football" and "American football", and the Queen's English will$ follow (or will it be king by then).  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingw   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 16:41:53 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)r2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9gqjoh$2fhj$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  / In article <00256A71.004F7B46.00@quegw01.btyp>,u#  Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com writes: O |> Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  |>   |> k |> x |> Tim said; |>  P |> "Anyway, must be because you don't play cricket :-). Sure got the climate for |> it."2 |> 6N |> Yes, and we have neither the climate nor the cricket in the UK right now... |> m |> ;^D |> eI |> Although Fabio, if you have the opportunity take a look at the current7D |> triangular series in England right now for some exciting cricket.  E Like most sports, watching is boring.  I do, however, miss playing iteE even if all I ever did was play with the neighborhood kids.  And yes,t# I got pretty good at it for a Yank.f   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:51:30 -0400a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2006011251300001@user-2ive71r.dialup.mindspring.com>  4 In article <3B2F9B08.B12E6EB@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:-    K > Interestingly enough, as soon as Bush Jr got the keys to the white house,iI > protectionist rumblings started to be heard again against canadian woodi	 products.t > L > Interesting how one will say that Wallmart is good because it brings lowerN > prices to consumers. But why then would USA be opposed to buying the cheaperO > canadian wood since it means lower house prices for americans ? Oops, because9P > profits go to Canada, jobs go to Canada. Apply this logic to the large USA boxJ > stores trying to sell their wares in Canada at a lower price and you can$ > understand some of the resistance.  A I'm always against protectionism, in all forms.  Libertarian-ish.o  J You really shouldn't say things like "why would USA be opposed".  Opinions3 are much more diverse than that statement suggests.y  I AFAIK, Canadians can by stock in Wal-Mart, and Americans can buy stock ineH Canadian lumber companies, though I don't know any of there names.  WhatA determines the nationality of a company?  The location where it'soI registered?  I don't pay much attention to the home of a company.  I careu0 more about their products, services, and prices.  N > In the case of the FTA, the goal wasn't so much to increase trade but ratherP > to protect the existing trade from protectionist forces. And in that sense, it
 > has worked.a  G Well, if you protect trade from protectionists, it tends to increase oneE its own.  So you're really only playing with words, not making a reale distinction.   -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comd   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2001 16:37:27 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)k2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9gqjg7$2fhj$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  + In article <3B2F9B08.B12E6EB@videotron.ca>,n0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> -Q |> They may have fears, but since there is no one huge trading partner in the EU,uQ |> it is more of an even hand than in the case of Canada/USA. Also, by ganging upgI |> together, the EU represents a single entity that is of comparable size"Q |> (economically) to the USA so the EU has a better chance at protecting its turf>@ |> from USA's culture than individual small countries in Europe.  E Well, as long as we're bringing culture into this I think you need toAD accept that the US is not forcing it's culture (or lack thereof) on H anyone.  It is the rest of the world that wants to be like us, no matterI how bad that is.  why do I say this??  Let me give you one small example.   G I lived in Germany for a number of years.  Unlike most Americans, I diduF all I could to immerse myself totally in the culture.  And I loved it.H With the advent of "bitcasting", I was finally able to look for at leastI a small piece of that culture I missed so much.  Imagine my surprise whenvG found the only thing being exported from Germany were little immitaionsrF of American radio.  I could not find a single station bitcasting from J Germany that was not just playing American garbage that passes for "music"F today.  I even went so far as to contact some of the stations and evenF the German Ministry responsible for radio broadcasting to ask why theyE don't export their own culture instead of just being little copies of E America.  Most never even responded.  Those few who did could not see E any reason why anyone would be interested in their culture as opposedb what they offered.  F We don't have to push our culture on anyone.  Those who can't make theE trip over here are perfectly willing to change their way of life intouF a cheap copy  of ours.  The only exception to this seems to be IrelandF which is going thru a cultural renaissance.  It probably has somethingE to do with the massive exodus they went through which left less IrishlF people in Ireland thanin the rest of the world.  Being one who is veryG proud of my roots (both Irish and Slavic) I think this cultural suicideeJ is a bad thing.  And that it is frequently blamed on the US being culturalH imperialists when in fact it is totally voluntary and even desired makes it even more disturbing.       |> aL |> One can argue about the quality of the USA's culture, but you can't argueL |> about its strength. Few countries have a culture strong enough that it isQ |> exported in such a scale as that of the USA. (from McDonalds to Larry Springer J |> :-) ( I use culture in its general sense, not the number of museums and |> concert halls).  G Re-read what I wrote above.  It is a deliberate decision on the part of H most other countries to not export their culture.  The INTERNET makes itF easier than ever to do it, most countries choose not to.  There is no I argument about the quality of American culture.  There is none.  Americanh2 "culture" is marked by it's total lack of culture.   |> nL |> The USA is unaware of this because almost all of its "culture" comes fromO |> within. But when you go to other countries, that is when you realise how thefO |> USA's culture is creeping in to other cultures, in many cases quite visibly.b  7 And totaly by the desire and actions of the recipients.    |> iP |> Australia is a good example. It seems to be switching from its attachement toQ |> England to one with the USA.  Pretty amazing how advertising can convince kidsiO |> anywhere in the world that Michael Jordan is a hero even though they may noto' |> have any basketball in that country.w  H Especially when there are large numbers of people inthis country who notG only know who he is and what he does and not only don't think he is anyoF kind of a hero but certainly don't think he is any kind of a desirable role model.    |>   |> eM |> > Nobody wants to take away your currency in Canada.  That's a good thing.n |> |H |> No offense, but our currency looks better than yours :-) :-) :-) (And6 |> Australia's is really neat with the plastic bills). |> gM |> > Why should any government get involved in picking retail stores?  In thesI |> > vast majority of cases where Wal-Mart is winning, it's because their  |> > competition stinks. m |> rQ |> Because it is changing the face of rural areas. You are essentially moving the Q |> town centre from the town centre to the Wallmart on the outskirts of the town,tG |> usually near the highway, often against the wishes of the communuty.i  H How is that possible??  If the community refused to shop there, it wouldF quietly go out of business and fade away.  Assuming other alternativesK existed before the arrival of WalMart, then they needed customers more thanaI the customers needed the store.  That being the case, the community made  I the store a success at the expense of the existing businesses.  Why??  InnH most cases, greed.  WalMart is cheaper. Often only by a few pennies, butK cheaper just the same and in order to save those few pennies, the cimmunityoH turned it's back on the older businesses.  Goes back to SUV's.  Why doesG Detroit make them??  Because the consumers want them.  Why does WalMartaE flourish??  Because the people go ther to shop.  No one can force thenL community to go to WalMart rather than Joe's Hardware, they do it willingly.   |> gH |> Similarly, canadian "cultural" entities (magazine/book publishers, TVI |> production houses etc) succesfully convinced the governement (even thesM |> Mulroney one) that it was necessary to exemot cultural industries from theoM |> free trade agreements otherwise the "Wallmarts" of the cultural industriesf1 |> would come to canada and take over everything.  |>  O |> For some people, the way of life is more important than saving a few pennies0 |> when you buy something.  J While true, it seems that those of us who think true cultural diversity isK a valuable thing are getting as rare as VMS users. (like how I brought this L back on topic.  :-))  Most people would rather spend 5 cents worth of gas toG save 2 cents ont he price of a common item at the not so local WalMart.l   |> rJ |> In Canada, what Wallmart has done is force the canadian chains, such asP |> Canadian Tire to close many stores and build large box stores on highways. In  K This is not just a Canadian phenomena.  They do the same down here.  But as-K long as your bringin up tyres, let me throw this out for consideration.  I oN need new tyres for my Spitfire.  Being an old car and British to boot, findingL good tyres is not very easy.  As it turns out, Sam's Club has Michellin's inN my size and of a type that is ideal for the car and the way I drive.  They areM on the rack in plentiful numbers and cost $39.00 each.  I went to three otherjL local tyre companies that sell Michellins.  One tried to talk me into buyingL some Japanese garbage tyres instead.  The other two didn't have my size, butM they could get them for me in 4-7 days and at a a cost of only $75.00 a tyre.wM Still wonder why WalMart is blowing these other businesses out of the water??T  P |> my case, I used to be able to walk to the local canadian tire, but now, it is  D Walk to the tyre store??  Somehow, that strikes me as not being very productive.  :-)  N |> far away and it is right next to another "home depot" style stores which inL |> turns is right next to a large shopping mall which in turn is next to theJ |> Price Club (Costco). The wallmart is west of the canadian tire (and old |> woolworths store).a  I Same here, but it started with the Malls.  Now the downtown areas are allnK lamenting the loss of these businesses.  But sometimes its just too late toc lock the barn door.A   |> sP |> But in reality, by concentrating your stores in large box stores one  next toQ |> each other, the few pennies you save buying stuff is wasted on fuel because oftQ |> the extra driving, and more importantly, because of all the time it takes whenc |> you're stuck in traffic.   E Actually, this last was the primary reason for moving them out of theaD downtown in the first place.  In the past 30-40 years, the number ofD vehicles onthe road has more than tripled.  Most urban areas can notF handle this load and the people decided it was more convenient to shopC outside town.  This resulted in the death of most downtown shopping.I and with it, the loss of contact with our neighbors that was as importantt4 a feature of these trips as the actual shopping was.   |> dJ |> Interestingly, the "new" Canadian Tire isn't doing as well as the olderM |> smaller one that was nearer to customer's homes. By forcing people to takeFQ |> their cars to get a lightbulb istead of walking, you are not helping save the E |> environment.f  I Down here, they don;t bother changing the bulb until all of them are goneaI or it's inspection time.  Nothing to do with moving the store, just plainr lazy.j   |> :N |> What can government do ?  Good question.  But a government has the tools atO |> its disposal to shape the economy or at least steer it. If the price of fuelrL |> is such that people don't want to drive to the strip mall far away on the8 |> highway, then vendors will build closer to customers.  I First, that is building a false economy and it won;t work.  It was provenlH during the maufactured shortages of the 70's that modern life has becomeK so wrapped up with the automobile that no matter what it costs, people willvM pay for the gas and use their cars.  The net effect is to add to the hardship G of that segment of society that can least afford it while having only a  minimal effect on the majority.r  I and second, it is attacking a symptom and not the disease.  You can't uselG bad economics to bolster a sagging culture.  If the government is to do H anything, they need to find a way to make people proud of thier culturalF heritage again.  If people take pride in their neighborhoods and townsE they will fight to preserve them.  When they have been convinced that G their culture is valueless, then they will continue to let it die while-H importing in that culture that the media keeps telling them is desirous.F Even a lie said long enough and loud enough takes on the appearance of
 the truth.   |>  = |> > And I've never heard of a Wal-Mart killing a whole town.8 |> 6P |> Perhaps not the whole town, but it does kill the small shops that were there.P |> Just like the mega book stores are killing the smaller book stores. The localQ |> small shopping mall hasn't recovered from Canadian Tire leaving it and is morefA |> than half empty of stores now. (It had maybe 20 stores before)f  K But it isn't WalMart's fault.  If the community didn't flock to WalMart, it? would not have survived.     |>  6 |> > Towns have been dying since long before Wal-Mart. |> vM |> Wallmart (and the others) is moving towns from their quaint city centre toeM |> some strip shoping mall with vast expanses of parking and no architectural-O |> interest (unless you really like the rectangular wharehouses with no style).   C WalMart didn't do that, the people abandoned the quaint city centre D willingly.  WalMart does not have the force of arms.  People stoppedC placing value on the culture associated with the quaint city centre D and when the first opportunity arose, they abandoned it.  One of theA things I liked about Germany were the traffic restricted shopping B districts in the downtown area.  Don't get me wrong, they have bigE warehouse like stores outside the city too, and I have shopped there.tD But they also still have these shopping districts and frequently oneC would go there just to walk, window-shop and meet people.  At leasteC as of 1980 when I came home tha last time they still held onto this D part of their culture.  We, on this side of the ocean, are much moreE enlightened and thus have grown beyond such quaint ideas.  Canada maytF have resisted longer, but they too will be assimilated.  Resistance isH futile.  but at least for now, I can still go to Kingston, ON and wander4 in and out of all the quaint shops and books stores.   |> oO |> > Well, we've quieted the protectionists down pretty well in the last coupleo |> > of decades. |> oL |> Interestingly enough, as soon as Bush Jr got the keys to the white house,T |> protectionist rumblings started to be heard again against canadian wood products. |> sM |> Interesting how one will say that Wallmart is good because it brings lowereO |> prices to consumers. But why then would USA be opposed to buying the cheaperhP |> canadian wood since it means lower house prices for americans ? Oops, becauseQ |> profits go to Canada, jobs go to Canada. Apply this logic to the large USA box-K |> stores trying to sell their wares in Canada at a lower price and you canh% |> understand some of the resistance.n  H But, according to you, there is no resistance.  Canadians have gleefullyI run to the new WalMArt the second it opened abandoning that shop downtownwE that was run by their neighbor for all those years.  Another piece ofrG American "culture" being willingly grasped by a country that is lettingn their culture go.t   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:04:48 -0400c2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2006011304490001@user-2ive71r.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <9gqjg7$2fhj$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote:    L > |> In Canada, what Wallmart has done is force the canadian chains, such asE > |> Canadian Tire to close many stores and build large box stores ond highways. In > M > This is not just a Canadian phenomena.  They do the same down here.  But asrM > long as your bringin up tyres, let me throw this out for consideration.  I  P > need new tyres for my Spitfire.  Being an old car and British to boot, findingN > good tyres is not very easy.  As it turns out, Sam's Club has Michellin's inP > my size and of a type that is ideal for the car and the way I drive.  They areO > on the rack in plentiful numbers and cost $39.00 each.  I went to three othernN > local tyre companies that sell Michellins.  One tried to talk me into buyingN > some Japanese garbage tyres instead.  The other two didn't have my size, butO > they could get them for me in 4-7 days and at a a cost of only $75.00 a tyre.tO > Still wonder why WalMart is blowing these other businesses out of the water??   E I think this kind of thing explains Wal-Mart's success much more thansF price does.  In many smaller towns, the traditional shops have all butH given up.  They don't have much in stock, they don't want to order stuffH for you, and they just act like they don't care about helping you.  WhenE Wal-Mart or someone like them shows up in a town like this, the olderCE stores that have been _begging_ to be put out of business finally get.F their wish.  Parking, traffic problems, and other traditional downtownJ problems are just more nails in the coffin.   Basically, many of the dying- stores stink, and have for quite a few years.g  H I'm NOT a fan of Wal-Mart and their mostly low-quality merchandise.  But3 I'll shop there if the other stores are even worse.n  G > |> my case, I used to be able to walk to the local canadian tire, but 
 now, it is > F > Walk to the tyre store??  Somehow, that strikes me as not being very > productive.  :-)  + Must be talking about tyres for the bike...t  cK > Same here, but it started with the Malls.  Now the downtown areas are alloM > lamenting the loss of these businesses.  But sometimes its just too late to  > lock the barn door.u  D The malls around here are showing signs of drying up.  I won't mind.   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:06:35 GMTd From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com-2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <fbl1jt068a95dt1k3ijlaqg1fk3h5scpk5@4ax.com>  < On 20 Jun 2001 16:37:27 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  N >Still wonder why WalMart is blowing these other businesses out of the water??  5 WalMart is *huge*.  so, they can && do squeeze their n suppliers for lower prices.   1 most (all?) of those suppliers cannot say no, or a! else risk losing a large account.u  A Walmart is also seriously anti-union, and partial to sweat-shops.b  ? But money talks.  Sam Walton is one of the world's richest men.e   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2001 13:44:09 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)i2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?* Message-ID: <9gqnd9$u3r$1@lisa.gemair.com>  8 In article <fbl1jt068a95dt1k3ijlaqg1fk3h5scpk5@4ax.com>,#  <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com> wrote:  >  >[snip]  > @ >But money talks.  Sam Walton is one of the world's richest men.  F Sam Walton died in 1992.  Walton _was_ one of the world's richest men.   -Jordan Hendersono jordan@greenapple.comA   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:05:18 +0000 (UTC)t' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)iC Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager?e+ Message-ID: <9gq01e$rdb$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   s In article <3147e88a.0106191442.588d16e8@posting.google.com>, kenneth.h.fairfield@intel.com (Ken Fairfield) writes:aF >With the release/inclusion of ECM Data Collector and ECM Performance P >Analyzer with VMS 7.3, there's one less reason to, in the words of Bob Kaplow, N >"give CA one of your body parts" each year.  The one thing that one needs in L >order to "go cold-turkey" is a replacement for Polycenter Console Manager,  >   ( and also a replacement for DECscheduler.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:30:02 -0400e% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>eC Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager?e/ Message-ID: <tj1nu4q6va664b@news.supernews.com>n  4 "D.Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:9gq01e$rdb$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... ? > In article <3147e88a.0106191442.588d16e8@posting.google.com>,e5 kenneth.h.fairfield@intel.com (Ken Fairfield) writes: G > >With the release/inclusion of ECM Data Collector and ECM PerformanceyI > >Analyzer with VMS 7.3, there's one less reason to, in the words of Bobo Kaplow,nL > >"give CA one of your body parts" each year.  The one thing that one needs inD > >order to "go cold-turkey" is a replacement for Polycenter Console Manager, > >u >i* > and also a replacement for DECscheduler. >e  C For a DECscheduler replacement, take a look at JAMS.  It includes arK DECscheduler to JAMS conversion utility.  More information is available at:s http://JAMS.Argent-Software.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:43:26 -0400h% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>eC Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager?h/ Message-ID: <tj1o5b81b45qeb@news.supernews.com>a  4 "D.Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:9gq01e$rdb$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... ? > In article <3147e88a.0106191442.588d16e8@posting.google.com>,l5 kenneth.h.fairfield@intel.com (Ken Fairfield) writes:oG > >With the release/inclusion of ECM Data Collector and ECM PerformanceiI > >Analyzer with VMS 7.3, there's one less reason to, in the words of Boby Kaplow,eL > >"give CA one of your body parts" each year.  The one thing that one needs inD > >order to "go cold-turkey" is a replacement for Polycenter Console Manager, > >  >z* > and also a replacement for DECscheduler. >h  G For a replacement for DECscheduler, take a look at JAMS.  It includes a>J DECscheduler to JAMS conversion utility.  More information is available at http://JAMS.Argent-Software.como   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.340 ************************