1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 22 Jun 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 344       Contents:- Re: 64-bit CPU performance, including Itanium $ Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?( Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?( Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?( Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?( Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?( Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?( Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale?& Re: Compaq: 180 Days of Transformation cool add Re: cool add Re: cool add DECss7 DSN/AES shutting down? Re: DSN/AES shutting down?= Dual DS20e 667Mhz VMS  Rack mountable + Cluster with licenses 0 Re: Few pictures from the London Update May 20010 Re: Few pictures from the London Update May 2001 FTP LIST problem. Help Please!" Re: FTP LIST problem. Help Please!! Re: Latest Issue of OpenVMS Times  Latest news- Alpha for sale? Re: Logical name doubt Re: Logical name doubt Re: Long distance VMS clusters Re: Long distance VMS clusters  MACRO:include externals how to ? Re: OpenVMS by ....  Re: OpenVMS by .... 2 RE: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linux1 pdf reader - distributing docs for OpenVMS users? 5 Re: pdf reader - distributing docs for OpenVMS users? 5 Re: pdf reader - distributing docs for OpenVMS users? P Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company    shouldbuyVMS VMSP RE: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company shou	ldbuy VMS VMS G Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy M Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy   VMS P Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy VMS VMSVP Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy VMS VMSVL Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company shouldbuy   VMS Sadness  Re: Sadness  Re: Sadness  Re: Sadness  Re: Sadness  Re: Sadness  Re: Sadness  Re: Sadness $ Software to create PDF files on OVMS Re: Unix Crypt  Re: VMS applications on the web?  Re: VMS applications on the web?  Re: VMS applications on the web?A Re: VMS Software support access in queue with the wintel weenies? # Where to obtain VMS2IMAP or similar ' Re: Where to obtain VMS2IMAP or similar ' Re: Where to obtain VMS2IMAP or similar  Re: X emulation over a PC  RE: X emulation over a PC  Re: X emulation over a PC  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change  Re: [OT] Climate change ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ? : RE: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager? Re: [TCPIP V5.1] some rants   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:04:09 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 6 Subject: Re: 64-bit CPU performance, including Itanium8 Message-ID: <i326jt0pdecg7tpundgmm7jpphrs2aq2so@4ax.com>  4 On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 04:06:28 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:    K >Indeed there are. And as for Itanium, it's not bad at all for a Release 1. K >Ran into an Intel developer (former Alpha/PRISM guy, Dileep Bhandarkar) in I >San Jose last weekend. We had an interesting chat. I would not underrate  >McKinley...  F So although it as been incredibly delayed it is beginning to look likeD IA64 will give Alpha a serious run for Compaq's money. Can they keepB it ahead? Will they keep it ahead? When you add in the Tru64/LinuxE announcements I wonder if it is time to start pressing for a VMS IA64  port again.   C It's interesting that Compaq have given the title "Affinity" to the D Tru-64/Linux migration tools. We all know what "Affinity" meant when0 applied to VMS/NT and surely so must Compaq. See8 http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001061802.html  
 Sample quote:   D "Compaq's new Linux and Tru64 Affinity Program enables customers toD combine the best in low-cost open source Linux solutions on ProLiantE servers with the most robust, scalable, and easiest-to-manage UNIX in F the market, Tru64 UNIX. Compaq's Linux and Tru64 Affinity Program willC offer a comprehensive portfolio of software tools and services that A allow both interoperability and application mobility within mixed # Linux and Tru64 UNIX environments.    C With the Linux and Tru64 Affinity Program, customers can seamlessly < implement a mixed environment of Linux on Compaq ProLiant or? AlphaServer systems and Tru64 UNIX with common user interfaces, E applications, and management capabilities. In addition, customers can A protect their investments by developing applications on Linux and B moving them to Tru64 UNIX or vice-versa for increased reliability,F availability and serviceability, and overall lower deployment costs."      >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 06:13:57 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> - Subject: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? 8 Message-ID: <sVEY6.7770$Ic.758851@news20.bellglobal.com>  E Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? Let's hope this is only a rumor!   ' http://www.theinquirer.net/22060101.htm   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:34:59 GMT B From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>1 Subject: Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? 6 Message-ID: <TXGY6.4956$yp1.180813@www.newsranger.com>  . On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 06:13:57 -0400, in article? <sVEY6.7770$Ic.758851@news20.bellglobal.com>, Neil Rieck wrote:  > F >Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? Let's hope this is only a rumor! > ( >http://www.theinquirer.net/22060101.htm >   F As I am sure you have seen, Terry Shannon has been strongly hinting atJ major changes at CPQ. Although I understand why Terry has been withholdingF this information (after all, he does run a business based on supplyingG information) I wonder if he could supply a timescale for a possible CPQ < announcement ? (Ie: today, early next week, next month, etc)  L As for the rumour, if it turns out to be true, then (IMHO) this is a good orK bad thing depending on who it goes to and the conditions under which it has 
 been sold.   Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP K Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:12:49 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? < Message-ID: <lvHY6.7690$P46.5225173@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  G "Simon Clubley" <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> wrote in 8 message news:TXGY6.4956$yp1.180813@www.newsranger.com...0 > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 06:13:57 -0400, in articleA > <sVEY6.7770$Ic.758851@news20.bellglobal.com>, Neil Rieck wrote:  > > H > >Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? Let's hope this is only a rumor! > > * > >http://www.theinquirer.net/22060101.htm > >  > H > As I am sure you have seen, Terry Shannon has been strongly hinting atL > major changes at CPQ. Although I understand why Terry has been withholdingH > this information (after all, he does run a business based on supplyingI > information) I wonder if he could supply a timescale for a possible CPQ > > announcement ? (Ie: today, early next week, next month, etc)  L I have been hinting at changes articulated in a 12 June transformation memo.L I suspect the transformation stuff that will be announced, will be announced within, say, a week.   > K > As for the rumour, if it turns out to be true, then (IMHO) this is a good  orI > bad thing depending on who it goes to and the conditions under which it  has  > been sold.  K I am not in a position to comment on the rumour to which you are referring. H What I can say is that EV7 is on track, Marvel systems are on track, and? Tru64 and OpenVMS customers have nothing to be concerned about.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:25:46 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 1 Subject: Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? 8 Message-ID: <22k6jt0gp00ibpicjng4v0jpj4mmqqsuf3@4ax.com>  4 On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:12:49 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  L >I am not in a position to comment on the rumour to which you are referring.I >What I can say is that EV7 is on track, Marvel systems are on track, and @ >Tru64 and OpenVMS customers have nothing to be concerned about.  A Then why on earth did Compaq think it a good idea to use the term D "affinity" to describe the Tru64/Linux program. Are they that stupidE they don't realise that "affinity" will just set alarm bells ringing? F The last time there was an affinity the Compaq/DEC proprietary partnerF ended up seriously wounded, the customer base got seriously pissed off> and those who followed DEC/Compaq's directions and migrated to> Alpha/NT ended up totally screwed.  If this announcement isn't@ intended to ,migrate customers from Tru64 to Linux/Alpha then to= Linux/Intel them I'm a banana. I notice that SAP is currently C supported on Linux on Compaq Intel hardware but not Linux on Compaq ( Alpha hardware. Yes there's Tru64 but...  A Either they want to start alarm bells ringing or they are stupid. 6 Again I am at a loss to decide which is more worrying,  D I must respectfully disagree that we have nothing to worry about. We: have plenty to worry about until we know what's happening,   >  >  >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:01:09 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>1 Subject: Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? + Message-ID: <VA.000003dc.0282fea7@sture.ch>   J In article <22k6jt0gp00ibpicjng4v0jpj4mmqqsuf3@4ax.com>, Alan Greig wrote:' > From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms 3 > Subject: Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? ' > Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:25:46 +0100  > 6 > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:12:49 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"$ > <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: > N > >I am not in a position to comment on the rumour to which you are referring.K > >What I can say is that EV7 is on track, Marvel systems are on track, and B > >Tru64 and OpenVMS customers have nothing to be concerned about. > C > Then why on earth did Compaq think it a good idea to use the term F > "affinity" to describe the Tru64/Linux program. Are they that stupidG > they don't realise that "affinity" will just set alarm bells ringing? H > The last time there was an affinity the Compaq/DEC proprietary partnerH > ended up seriously wounded, the customer base got seriously pissed off@ > and those who followed DEC/Compaq's directions and migrated to@ > Alpha/NT ended up totally screwed.  If this announcement isn'tB > intended to ,migrate customers from Tru64 to Linux/Alpha then to? > Linux/Intel them I'm a banana. I notice that SAP is currently E > supported on Linux on Compaq Intel hardware but not Linux on Compaq * > Alpha hardware. Yes there's Tru64 but... > C > Either they want to start alarm bells ringing or they are stupid. 8 > Again I am at a loss to decide which is more worrying, > F > I must respectfully disagree that we have nothing to worry about. We< > have plenty to worry about until we know what's happening, > > Well get this article: http://www.theinquirer.net/22060114.htm   "Alpha up for grabs   "   Smoke present: looking for fire   &   By Mike Magee, 22/06/01 14:58:06 BST  :   EVIDENCE IS NOW MOUNTING that Compaq will, indeed divestG   itself of its Alpha microprocessor division, perhaps as early as next    week. ..."  M Also a confirmation of lack of interest on Samsung's part in the body of the   article.   5 Also an article by Terry Shannon on Alpha futures at  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/22060115.htm  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 17:41:09 GMT B From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP>1 Subject: Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? 6 Message-ID: <VqLY6.5352$yp1.196288@www.newsranger.com>  , On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:12:49 GMT, in articleI <lvHY6.7690$P46.5225173@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > M >I have been hinting at changes articulated in a 12 June transformation memo. M >I suspect the transformation stuff that will be announced, will be announced  >within, say, a week.    Thanks for this update.   L >I am not in a position to comment on the rumour to which you are referring.I >What I can say is that EV7 is on track, Marvel systems are on track, and @ >Tru64 and OpenVMS customers have nothing to be concerned about.  H Assuming that there are not things going on in CPQ that you have not yet& heard about, then this is _good_ news.   Simon.  K PS: "Transformation"? Interesting choice of words by CPQ. I must admit that - my initial reaction was to think of Palmer...    --  ; Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP K Worrying idea #101: What if Microsoft goes into the Ada compiler business ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:45:24 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> 1 Subject: Re: Compaq's Alpha design team for sale? B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010622114445.00ab8fc8@ntbsod.psccos.com>  + At 11:41 AM 6/22/2001, Simon Clubley wrote: - >On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:12:49 GMT, in article J ><lvHY6.7690$P46.5225173@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Terry C. Shannon wrote: > > O > >I have been hinting at changes articulated in a 12 June transformation memo. O > >I suspect the transformation stuff that will be announced, will be announced  > >within, say, a week.  >  >Thanks for this update. > N > >I am not in a position to comment on the rumour to which you are referring.K > >What I can say is that EV7 is on track, Marvel systems are on track, and B > >Tru64 and OpenVMS customers have nothing to be concerned about. > I >Assuming that there are not things going on in CPQ that you have not yet ' >heard about, then this is _good_ news.  >  >Simon.  > L >PS: "Transformation"? Interesting choice of words by CPQ. I must admit that. >my initial reaction was to think of Palmer...  > Hey, maybe KO's going to buy CPQ and rename it to "Digital"...     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  | I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" | I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jun 2001 15:05:11 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)/ Subject: Re: Compaq: 180 Days of Transformation , Message-ID: <9gvmr7$l66@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  s In article <VDvY6.3048$wU6.3394363@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  >  >The Transformation memo per se M >addresses issues like simplification, consolidation, expense reduction, etc. I >The sort of things you would expect Capellas to emphasize in the current  >market climate.    E Or rather, exactly the sorts of things you'd expect a visionless bean H counter like Capellas to emphasize.  The 180 day spin tells me that thisH can hardly be anything else besides another reorg.  Which means that theD first one didn't do the job, which by my general observations of CEOH effectiveness, most likely means that this one won't do anything either.I Ie, for CEOs it's "If at first you don't succeed, fail, fail again."  The J good ones get it right the first time - the bad ones never get it right.  H The really amazing thing is how long the boards of corporations will let these guys flounder.    	 Regards,     David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:49:58 -0400l2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: cool adda0 Message-ID: <n2IY6.21$rc5.1020@news.cpqcorp.net>  D Normally I do not look at the prolient add's but this is a good one.  3 > http://www.userfriendly.org/animation/compaq.htmle   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:44:01 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)s Subject: Re: cool addw0 Message-ID: <009FDE90.B681041D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <n2IY6.21$rc5.1020@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:iE >Normally I do not look at the prolient add's but this is a good one.  > 4 >> http://www.userfriendly.org/animation/compaq.html >M >i >   L I don't see any animation related to Compaq.  There's an add for some backupL system -- which doesn't look all that impressive that I'd post a boast about$ it -- and a form to forward the URL.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 10:56:25 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)  Subject: Re: cool adde* Message-ID: <9gvmap$uvv$1@lisa.gemair.com>  0 In article <009FDE90.B681041D@SendSpamHere.ORG>,> Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:f >In article <n2IY6.21$rc5.1020@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:F >>Normally I do not look at the prolient add's but this is a good one. >>5 >>> http://www.userfriendly.org/animation/compaq.htmle >> >> >> >eM >I don't see any animation related to Compaq.  There's an add for some backupsM >system -- which doesn't look all that impressive that I'd post a boast abouta% >it -- and a form to forward the URL.  >S  . I saw it just a minute ago.  It's pretty good.  L Smart marketing, too.  Have userfriendly put it up once and encourage people to mail it around to friends.w   >h >--tP >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >           P >city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.   -Jordan Hendersonm jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:47:17 +0400e4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> Subject: DECss7D0 Message-ID: <3B3384A5.B1F74DE7@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>  
 Hello All!Q 	Is there who have an expirience with this product? I'm need a little consutlitngeU related to MTP API. I'd like to use it for some project,  DECss7 is very expensive ats: the time and I'm need to get some knowledge before buy it. -- - Cheers, Ruslan.-? +----------------pure personal opinion------------------------+09     RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.comR6       vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS)                 Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:01:40 +0100e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r Subject: DSN/AES shutting down?a8 Message-ID: <obn6jtob6mt4lo50d1htsiotf5v3n8qaht@4ax.com>  > Currently in the UK I see the following when connecting to DSN    6                Welcome to Compaq DSNlink ITS Services.    F In our continuous effort to increase the quality of the information we> provide, we have created a completely new source for technical information.B All existing AES-ITS information (and much more!) is integrated in this new source.o  E Please have a look at http://www.compaq.co.uk/support and select "Asks Compaq".  E You will find extensive information about support and Compaq systems.a  <             Please note that the existing AES - ITS database)                        will be retired on/  )                        15 September 2001..  D We will be contacting all our AES customers over the coming weeks to provide  further information      Thank you for using AES,       What on earth is going on? -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:26:10 +01006  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch># Subject: Re: DSN/AES shutting down?e+ Message-ID: <VA.000003de.0299e51b@sture.ch>s  D In article <obn6jtob6mt4lo50d1htsiotf5v3n8qaht@4ax.com>, Alan Greig  wrote:' > From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms ! > Subject: DSN/AES shutting down? ' > Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:01:40 +0100  >  > @ > Currently in the UK I see the following when connecting to DSN >  > 8 >                Welcome to Compaq DSNlink ITS Services. >  > H > In our continuous effort to increase the quality of the information we@ > provide, we have created a completely new source for technical > information.D > All existing AES-ITS information (and much more!) is integrated in > this
 > new source.- > G > Please have a look at http://www.compaq.co.uk/support and select "Aski
 > Compaq". > G > You will find extensive information about support and Compaq systems.  > > >             Please note that the existing AES - ITS database+ >                        will be retired onm > + >                        15 September 2001.  > F > We will be contacting all our AES customers over the coming weeks to	 > providea > further information- >  >  > Thank you for using AES, >  >  >  > What on earth is going on?  A Not sure. I just tried it from an NT box and tried searching for aH "Performance cookbook". It did indeed come up with roughly the articles G what I expected, but only 5 at a time, with no indication of the total 7G number of articles available. Grr. Of course you've got to scroll down lD for the articles, as first represented are a load of drop down menu  boxesh  H One bright note though - I don't need a username/password to get at the G database. That solves a long running problem for me as I had no direct  E access to AES-ITS dating back to security concerns of having a modem nI into our systems. It also infers that folks not on support contracts can t2 access and Hobbyists can now search this database.  E I haven't tried it from a VMS system (I'm down to one monitor at the oF moment as believe it or not, one of them emitted a load bang and died > when viewing an MS word document!). Has anyone else tried from Netscape/Mozilla under VMS?e ___m
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:25:58 -0400o8 From: "Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@islandco.com>F Subject: Dual DS20e 667Mhz VMS  Rack mountable + Cluster with licenses/ Message-ID: <tj6ok2jp8p64d1@news.supernews.com>i  F If you have an interest in this configuration, which includes a memory% channel config. both systems built byy6 Compaq CSS for a DOT COM company only a few months ago  J These systems are being sold by us with on site Compaq warranty (2 Years +$ on site warranty) already built into	 a cabinetb  B Systems have all licenses including CLUSTER licenses which have an independent value of   Call for more information      -- Island Computers US Corporationm 2700 Gregory Street 	 Suite 150v Savannah GA 31404o Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0096  sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com' http://www.islandco.com/legal-email.htmf   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:38:41 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a9 Subject: Re: Few pictures from the London Update May 2001n8 Message-ID: <0706jto6unq6c97lmvt2uttua7q6ocjifn@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:33:47 +0100, steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:a   >s >f  + >Thanks for pointing that one out Alan.....hG >It is a poor photograph of me.  Honest.  I do look better in real lifet  F Hey, I think you look very smart and business-like. It could look likeF you're just about to ask the rest of us to leave for lowering the tone of the hotel though :-)r       -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:35:15 +0100a  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com9 Subject: Re: Few pictures from the London Update May 2001-H Message-ID: <OF52155057.8DDB5800-ON80256A73.003492D2@qedi.quintiles.com>  ( How does Alan guess these things.... :-) Steve.   Alan Greig wrote : >>>e+ >Thanks for pointing that one out Alan.....qG >It is a poor photograph of me.  Honest.  I do look better in real lifet  F Hey, I think you look very smart and business-like. It could look likeF you're just about to ask the rest of us to leave for lowering the tone of the hotel though :-)r <<<t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:00:58 -0500.# From: "David Boyer" <david@bvu.edu>k' Subject: FTP LIST problem. Help Please!tO Message-ID: <9A3BEEF3CF3DA775.64EFC3BC81F8A342.5FB7B379B3C0FF48@lp.airnews.net>t  K We're using LeechFTP http://stud.fh-heilbronn.de/~jdebis/leechftp/ from ouraE Windows clients and we're reciving an error when trying to retrieve a B directory listing. We've tried ls, list, nlst, nlist, and dir. The@ connection LOG is below and I'd be grateful for any suggestions!  % < 220 FTP Server (Version 5.0) Ready.e > USER myuseridc+ < 331 Username myuserid requires a Passwordi > PASS *********** < 230 User logged in.S > REST 1 < 502 REST is unimplemented. > SYST < 200 VMS OpenVMS V7.2 > PWDC5 < 257 "DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]" is current directory.h ~ Login completed. > PORT 147,92,244,181,8,127  < 200 PORT command successful. > TYPE A < 200 TYPE set to ASCII. > LIST> < 150 Opening data connection for DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]*.*;* (147.92.244.181,2175)a. < LISTERROR: Directory DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]  < LISTERROR: COUNCILBLUFFS.TXT;2; < LISTERROR: 473/490 15-JUN-2001 08:38:40 [SPECIAL,MYUSERIDm (RWED,RWED,RWED,)s/ < LISTERROR: Total of 29 files, 991/2450 blocks E ~ Could not retrieve directory listing for "DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]/"<   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:27:02 -0400n- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>p+ Subject: Re: FTP LIST problem. Help Please!n- Message-ID: <3B3371D6.C964016A@bellsouth.net>5  M probably because it does not understand the OpenVMS directory structure.  usehD WS_FTP (btw this is about the only ftp client I can get to work withH SunOS/Solaris (Refections cannot create/read directories on SUN)  or useE Reflection ftp and a number of others that seem to work with multipleo
 platforms.  L >> Could not retrieve directory listing for "DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]/"  <<-- note the "/"   Michael Austin DBA Consultant   David Boyer wrote:  M > We're using LeechFTP http://stud.fh-heilbronn.de/~jdebis/leechftp/ from ourmG > Windows clients and we're reciving an error when trying to retrieve aoD > directory listing. We've tried ls, list, nlst, nlist, and dir. TheB > connection LOG is below and I'd be grateful for any suggestions! >a' > < 220 FTP Server (Version 5.0) Ready.l > > USER myuserid - > < 331 Username myuserid requires a Passwordo > > PASS *********** > < 230 User logged in./
 > > REST 1 > < 502 REST is unimplemented. > > SYST > < 200 VMS OpenVMS V7.2 > > PWDI7 > < 257 "DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]" is current directory.  > ~ Login completed. > > PORT 147,92,244,181,8,127t  > < 200 PORT command successful.
 > > TYPE A > < 200 TYPE set to ASCII. > > LIST@ > < 150 Opening data connection for DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]*.*;* > (147.92.244.181,2175) 0 > < LISTERROR: Directory DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]" > < LISTERROR: COUNCILBLUFFS.TXT;2= > < LISTERROR: 473/490 15-JUN-2001 08:38:40 [SPECIAL,MYUSERID  > (RWED,RWED,RWED,)s1 > < LISTERROR: Total of 29 files, 991/2450 blocks G > ~ Could not retrieve directory listing for "DISK$SPECIAL:[MYUSERID]/"t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:45:27 -0400 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>* Subject: Re: Latest Issue of OpenVMS Times0 Message-ID: <7_HY6.20$rc5.1073@news.cpqcorp.net>  $ The latest newsletter is now posted.  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message-- news:i9qY6.1676$fi2.51654@news.cpqcorp.net...1 > Dear Newsgroup,  >oJ > I just wanted to let you know that the latest issue of OpenVMS Times hasL > been completed and submitted for posting on the external OpenVMS Web site. >e6 > It might take a few days to make it on the web site.7 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/index.html. >a >nK > I will be out of the office for the next couple of weeks, but I wanted too > let you know before I left.t >sF > In case I have not mentioned it lately, thank you for your continued support - > of VMS, because of you I have a job I love.p >t > Warm Regards,  >  > suet >h >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:52:12 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>c% Subject: Latest news- Alpha for sale?b) Message-ID: <3B3369AC.96BB8295@rdrop.com>g   Hadn't seen this here yet...  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/22060114.htm.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 07:06:02 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)a Subject: Re: Logical name doubts3 Message-ID: <$shKl6WoLXHG@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  V In article <3B3296CE.AF9B0391@mmaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> writes: > ( > --------------38534792B2191C369609B52B, > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii! > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7biti  & Please don't post MIME to comp.os.vms.  G > If this is so reoccuring that you want to define a logical, you mightn/ > better consider setting up a proxy instead...M  H Beware, proxy logins implement an entirely different security model fromF embedding the password in a logical name.  Neither is "good", but they are certainly not equivalent.    > As for the logical, try: > + > $   define alp2 alpha2"""WORK XXXXXX"""::  > F > and I would NOT use a logical with the same name as the node, it too > will cause you grief...h  ; If the originator really want to use the name ALPHA2, then:   + 	$ DEFINE ALPHA2 "_ALPHA2::WORK XXXXXX""::"n   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 08:22:46 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)h Subject: Re: Logical name doubtt3 Message-ID: <FW8$aek308Zw@eisner.encompasserve.org>"  o In article <$shKl6WoLXHG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:.  = > If the originator really want to use the name ALPHA2, then:. > - > 	$ DEFINE ALPHA2 "_ALPHA2::WORK XXXXXX""::"-   when he should have written:  . 	 $ DEFINE ALPHA2 "_ALPHA2::""WORK XXXXXX""::"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:42:35 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c' Subject: Re: Long distance VMS clusterse8 Message-ID: <1616jt84j708jen75vli5joccm9mtj5aj9@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:54:59 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:-   >"Main, Kerry" wrote:- >-G >> In such situations, if you were/are having issues like this, I wouldrA >> recommend escalating it via the local Compaq Management folks.a >1J >Been there, done that. All it did was burn bridges at more than the localH >level. Pointing to the incompetence of the local office doesn't get you; >anything except even worse service from the local  office.m  B Here I'd have to disagree. What you say undoubtedly used to be theC case but recently (within last year) I've found that complaining top$ management does seem to get results.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 05:14:19 -0700; From: jnchambl@texaschildrenshospital.org (Jesse Chambless)i' Subject: Re: Long distance VMS clustersi= Message-ID: <d92c63cc.0106220414.1ffc9683@posting.google.com>   @ We are planning on using Fibre Channel.  We will also be using 3F member shadow sets as we plan exact copies of each node at each place.  E The current computer room is in 1 building and houses all three 4100sdC and our storage.  We have completed the expansion of a 2nd building D and added a computer room on the 16th floor of that building.  It isF across the street so approximately 3000 feet.  The 3rd site is plannedD to be with an outside vendor housing the equipment.  They supply the! space, we provide the management.*  B We plan to talk with our Compaq representatives here, we have someD good ones by the way, and pick their brains for ALL necessary help. / We can also drive to headquarters if necessary.*  m kparris@my-deja.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cb85fed2.0106211347.3eaefd9e@posting.google.com>...o > jnchambl@texaschildrenshospital.org (Jesse Chambless) wrote in message news:<d92c63cc.0106210540.656b304b@posting.google.com>...J > > We are currently planning on moving our VMS cluster nodes for disasterJ > > tolerance.  The current plan is to have 1 node in our current computerE > > room, 1 node in a newly built computer room approximately 3000 ft F > > away, and 1 node approximately 30 miles from these locations.  The2 > > nodes will be ES40s with SAN EMA12000 storage. > < > Do you plan to run Fibre Channel between the sites, or useB > MSCP-serving over an SCS-capable link for the inter-site storage
 > traffic? > G > > We plan on configuring the 3 nodes in a cluster, shadowing all disko > > drives etc.  > C > Do you plan on 2-member or 3-member shadow sets, given you have 3  > sites?F > Or is the 3rd site 3000 feet away intended to be only a quorum site? >  A9 > > Can someone give me an idea of how the shadow members(F > > will perform, how will the performance be on the node further away: > > perform with users being load balanced on the cluster. > >-H > > I seem to have conflicting information on how performance will be onH > > the far away node and the latentcy of the shadow sets as far as real > > time usage is concerned. > C > With a 30-mile distance, you're probably going to see about a 2-3s2 > millisecond round trip time to the distant site. > B > With either MSCP or Fibre Channel protocols, writes take 2 roundG > trips, so remote write I/Os to the 30-mile-distant site will probablyoF > see an additional 5 ms or so of latency.  Whether or not you'll evenF > notice this difference will depend on how critical write performance) > is to your application's response time.t > H > With user load at both sites, resources will be shared by coordinatingE > with the VMS Distributed Lock Manager, and at least some portion of F > the lock requests will travel between sites and incur the inter-siteC > round-trip latency.  Depending on how your application does I/Os,AD > there can actually be significantly more lock requests for a given% > transaction than remote write I/Os.e > H > You can begin looking at your application behavior now to see how muchH > write activity and locking activity it's generating, to better predict> > the potential impact of spreading the workload across sites. >  > Keithj   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:57:48 +0400!4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>) Subject: MACRO:include externals how to ?M0 Message-ID: <3B33871C.6B10FE31@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi All!eS 	I have a little .MAR progs, I want to keep some connstants in external .MAR modulesV which is supposed to be by an "include" in the main module. Is there any tips or triksD ? I ran over the docs and not found any compiler directive for that. -- F Cheers, Ruslan.i? +----------------pure personal opinion------------------------+-9     RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com06       vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS)                 Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:44:05 -0300w) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br  Subject: Re: OpenVMS by ....L Message-ID: <OFECAD1804.2F877D94-ON03256A73.003AEF41@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>    No, I am not a developer, yet  !   Fabiot        > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) em 21/06/2001 18:33:52  9 Favor responder a koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm       Assunto: Re: OpenVMS by ....    
 In articleA <OFBF44809D.200F7F7C-ON03256A72.0063B9D1@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, + fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:E= > f) HP - A good choice but I believe they dont want OpenVMS. B > They will try to migrate the industrial users to HP-UX + Agilent	 products.   5 No.  Ever tried using the HP development environment?o  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation0= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupRE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyings   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:16:26 +0200r5 From: Martin Knoblauch <Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de>r Subject: Re: OpenVMS by ....+ Message-ID: <3B33533A.5E1EA516@TeraPort.de>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > " > To give this kind of suggestion: >  >  > c) SGI  - Too cientific. >   D  no cash left over. Interesting anyway. I always thought they shouldF have moved to Alpha. Better to sacrifice MIPS for something compatible instead of the IA64 monster.  @  Or COMPAQ should have bought SGI and cobbled them and the AlphaA division together. That would have given COMPAQ a nicely scalablev$ architecture with a really good CPU.  =  Of course, both would have had no or negative effect on VMS.    Martin -- uB ------------------------------------------------------------------B Martin Knoblauch         |    email:  Martin.Knoblauch@TeraPort.de7 TeraPort GmbH            |    Phone:  +49-89-510857-309 7 C+ITS                    |    Fax:    +49-89-510857-111t5 http://www.teraport.de   |    Mobile: +49-170-4904759    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 07:08:45 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)d; Subject: RE: Oracle hypes new clustering on Intel and Linuxu3 Message-ID: <sogAIGS2RZyp@eisner.encompasserve.org>l   In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF48DBE98@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: > Andrew ...  M > Are you stating that one OS can address all requirements for all Customers?-? > Are you stating that having OS options are not a good thing ?s  . Kerry, please reread Andrew's domain name. :-)  9 > From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jun 2001 15:40:36 GMT! From: Mark Hatch <mhatch@ics.com>d: Subject: pdf reader - distributing docs for OpenVMS users?' Message-ID: <3B3366F0.76FB392A@ics.com>i   Hi,t  F Didn't see a pdf viewer on Adobe's page for OpenVMS AXP. Is there one?  D Excuse my ignorance, but how do I distribute finished documents in aH form convenient for OpenVMS developers given that we're using tools like Framemaker, Pagemaker, etc.,   Thanks   Mark   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 12:53:46 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)t> Subject: Re: pdf reader - distributing docs for OpenVMS users?3 Message-ID: <sdvEqzphmYjW@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  K In article <3B3366F0.76FB392A@ics.com>, Mark Hatch <mhatch@ics.com> writes:C  H > Didn't see a pdf viewer on Adobe's page for OpenVMS AXP. Is there one?  7 Compaq does not make or support any PDF viewer for VMS.dG At one point they recommended the Java-based Acrobat viewer from Adobe,iF which Adobe does not support on any platform.  Some of us who tried itF thought performance and features were sadly deficient (compared to the1 native Adobe Acrobat for Macintosh, for example).9  D An offer was made of a PDF viewer from a third party, but so far theD vendor has not offered media distribution (at any price) making thatC approach untenable for those who do not accept software copied overu? the Internet (government classified sites for one big example).-  F > Excuse my ignorance, but how do I distribute finished documents in aJ > form convenient for OpenVMS developers given that we're using tools like > Framemaker, Pagemaker, etc.   A To make your documentation maximally accessible to VMS developersfF you should provide multiple formats so they can choose their favorite. As a bare minimum:   	Postscriptr 	HTMLu3 	Text (yes, it is easier to search than the others)    You might also include:-   	PDF  > for those with another workstation near their VMS workstation.  D If you had started with DEC Document (not likely for someone in yourC position of coming to VMS from another operating system), you could2
 also emit:   	Bookreader format  * along with your Postscript, HTML and Text.   > Thanks >  > Mark  6 Thank you for asking, rather than making assumptions !   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 17:01:29 GMTk2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)> Subject: Re: pdf reader - distributing docs for OpenVMS users?0 Message-ID: <JRKY6.39$rc5.1220@news.cpqcorp.net>  K In article <3B3366F0.76FB392A@ics.com>, Mark Hatch <mhatch@ics.com> writes: G :Didn't see a pdf viewer on Adobe's page for OpenVMS AXP. Is there one?   G   Yes, please see the OpenVMS FAQ and see the current OpenVMS Freeware.n  E :Excuse my ignorance, but how do I distribute finished documents in a/I :form convenient for OpenVMS developers given that we're using tools likei :Framemaker, Pagemaker, etc.  G   HTML -- best if it is checked for w3c-compliance -- and PDF are what 'C   OpenVMS Engineering is presently using for on-line documentation.R    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:16:17 GMTa? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)5Y Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company    shouldbuyVMS VMST/ Message-ID: <3b32fb49.2123313@news.demon.co.uk>E  - I don't see that the two are in any way tied.9  F First, for an open source approach to work there will still need to beE a driver.  That clearly doesn't need all of the current staff, but it2 does need some of it.0  D Second, Compaq is still going to want hardware support for its stuffF showing up immediately, and that's going to consume another tranche of# staff (much like today, I'd guess).r  B Finally, my personal guess is that if Compaq offered OpenVMS in anE open source manner, there would still be a solid business in offering < a fully validated and supported configuration (ala RedHat or? InterBase).  Doing a good job on that would take a new group ofm people.C  @ So, on one hand, the combined set, IMHO, would be at or near theC current staffing requirements.  This isn't a way to drastically cutr costs.  C On the other hand, given the current OpenVMS customer base, I don'toB see much downside on the revenue stream inasmuch as I'd guess that< these customers would want a validated and supported system.  B Finally, on the gripping hand, providing OpenVMS in an open sourceC manner does greatly increase the available talent (i.e. all of you) E for getting changes made that would be otherwise unlikely to get madeSB today.  For those of you that are old enough, think how this wouldC have changed the way project accounting played out.  This, in turn, C may well help increase the number of potential OpenVMS customers....  E Without trying to be too Panglossian, it Seems like the best possibleY world to me.   Just my own personal opinion.    Jim.    7 On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:03:53 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"9 <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Brendan Welch wrote:M >> IH >> This is slightly off-track, and is something I have said here before,
 >> but ... >> LK >> The timing is probably no longer any good, but I keep thinking, "InsteadbH >> of AT&T essentially giving away Unix, what would have happened (still< >> could happen ?) if DEC gave away the source code to VMS?" >1* >I wouldn't want to see Hoff outta work... >sI >Then again, I suspect he would be more successful at finding replacementD@ >employment than I have been to date, owing to his knowledge and >technical and personal skills.s >n >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/e >c; >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:t  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >eG >This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postingsl >is to be expected.e > A >Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.o >vG >However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, aref >strongly discouraged.   Jim Johnson  Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:20:22 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>rY Subject: RE: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company shou	ldbuy VMS VMS 1L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1FB2@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]  < > You are talking about different products, different market@ > segments and different targets (people, companies). The IOMEGA@ > story isn't complete without the company which made replacableA > HDs and competed with them, but anyway nothing of importance ingB > our context. Forget your kids watching TV! They're not the peers* > you need to have the band waggon effect.  K Well, first off, kids watching TV have a great amount of influence on theirnL parents, and some of them are pretty smart (the really smart ones may not beL watching TV, though :)  It's an indirect marketing.  In this case, it shouldH have the effect of making the parents think "even my (son, daughter) has heard of this..."t  I There are better places to start, I think.  In PHB mags (BOTASMs, as I'vegK heard them referred to here), for instance, and Ziff-Davis publications. :) K Eventually a TV spot could help with brand recognition, if it were properly 	 executed.h  ! > *VMS is not a cigarette brand!*   K That's true; it's hard to compare apples to apples, and nearly worthless to2I compare Apples to Alphas. :)  This is the alchemy of advertising, though.-I You must find a way for people to relate to your product.  It needs to bedI advertised along-side the inferior (in this case) products so that peoplegJ recognize it.  To understand this, just note the number of billyboxes thatH are shoehorned into places (like the work-place) that they don't belong.     Regards,   Chrise  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerm Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");I 'A  A   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 13:54:33 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)lP Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy3 Message-ID: <WGyQ$ExzTWE4@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  [ In article <3B32E8C9.A7DB08D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:e > Christof Brass wrote:u? >> VMS is world wide. I'm only talking about smart managers who A >> make the financial decisions. Your point is exactly what I had C >> in mind when I asked about procedures and operation. Having somet3 >> Sculley guy from a VC is the last thing we need.  > = > Agreed. Scully and Palmer are of the same destructive camp.r > K > But having a guy such as Steve Jobs with vision, charisma and good camerad# > presence would do wonder for VMS.  > " >> *VMS is not a cigarette brand!* > I > I disagree with this. The days where educated scientists made technical-N > recommendations for a VMS solution are long gone. You now have pointy hairedM > managers who watch Simpsons and TV and look at the large pictures in ads on 1 > trade rags are the ones who make the decisions.  > N > These managers are sheep who make sure that they follow the heard as closelyP > as possible for a variaty of reasons, one of which is to protect themselves byK > alwasy selecting the same solution everyone else appears to be selecting.p >  > O > For VMS to make inroads in today,s marketplace, they have to use Marketing toaP > show VMS as a mainstream solution that those pointy haired managers won't have > a problem selecting. > P > In other words, you need to use marketing to create a VMS trend and make VMS a > trendy product.t  @ At the very least they need ads to compete with the ads seen for@ IBM, Micro$hiite, and Sun.  I've seen all sorts of ads for theseB companies extolling the virtues of their non-stop, super-reliable,> cutting-edge, save-your-butt, products.  The ads I've seen forD Compaq are indistinct fluffy bits about "Inspiration Technology" andD how many servers you can put in a minivan.  (I must admit, though, I< do get a hearty belly laugh out of Micro$hiite's "Enterprise Solutions" ads)o  C They need some in-your-face style of ad to get noticed and positionuA themselves as a player in the marketplace.  Perhaps a Denis Learyr style rant would do the trick.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 17:13:39 +0200b& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>V Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy   VMS$ Message-ID: <3B3360A3.6956@c-lab.de>   Christof Brass wrote:e >   L > > somehow the consumer is not in the "in crowd" because he's not using theJ > > latest and greatest - he's not "with it", and the second spouts enoughI > > technical jargon that the consumer believes that it MUST be somethingsE > > really good because it's a NEW technology.  Branding through mass L > > advertising leads to market penetration - always has, always will. IntelJ > > had an ad once that touted the CDROM as "internet connected"- what theJ > > hell does that mean? People bought it though.  And you've got to admit  D That's certainly right for mass-market products, like Intel CPUs andH Windows. But, agreed, more agressive campaigns in more targeted channelsG (IT journals, but also Business Week, Forbes and so on) would certainlyiG help. I recall the book 'Barbarians led by Bill Gates', which dedicatedsF a whole chapter to Gates' brilliant idea of mimicking 'brand building'D and, thus , getting premium prices for commodity products (everybodyH needs it, but it's still just an OS, not a luxury watch or car). I couldH imagine more clever campaign, even commercials. In the current situationH (more and more virus attacks, servers harmed by athmospheric/radioactiveC rays, even Linux now a target for worms and trojans), it is hard to C think about a juicy commercial portaying the hectic atmosphere of aiF NT/UNIX computing center and contrasting it with the relative peace ofG an VMS cluster one (with a voice from off: Compaq VMS: The OS that justsC runs and runs and runs...' or such...). Or take examples from majoreE customers, VMS used in facility lines, steel mills, logistics, safetyeE sensible areas and so on. If it is necessary, even quote some uses ofi VMS in NASA...    G > > that their commercials were visually sexy.  Why do you think the US! > ? > Have never seen one (no TV and I'm always to the movies so noO > ads for me). > J > > Marines used Medieval Battle scenes to sell the idea to sign your lifeL > > away to them for a few years? Because kids eat it up.  I remember in theJ > > lobbies of movie theatres when the "Hunt for Red October" was playing,J > > the Navy got permission to do recruiting drives on the spot.  A lot ofI > > people joined right there beliving they would be serving on a nuclear- > > sub. > ? > Yes, with this type of campain you will get exactly the wrongo > customers. >   G Oh my god... 'Join the marine and you get your free Skull&Bones tattoo'9 ???2  G > > not paying attention to their feminine napkin ad? And they only get0J > > about 30-60 seconds to convince you. Branding through mass advertisingK > > WORKS.  If you want VMS to sell, make it a household name - make it the>E > > NEW thing.  For crying out loud, BELLBOTTOMS came back - and theys > > pre-date
 > > VMS!!! > >6 > > HM > ? > I don't agree with the idea and attitude. My analysis is that B > the good customers are quality oriented and the target of VMS is7 > *only* this ev. small market share of smart managers.9  G Still, it's the awareness point that's important here. OF COURSE it has H to be balanced, so not to shy away the real customers ('it might be good6 product, but what a cheesy/pretentious commercial...')  C So, if VMS' current 'bastion' is the financial sector, it should be G perfectly ok to hammer this target sector with advertisements. The only F problem here is to combine the 'stability/reliabilty' strengths with aE suitable dose of 'sexiness', to show that VMS is alive, kicking AND a & real choice. => where are the apps....   -- r* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:21:53 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> Y Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy VMS VMSVt, Message-ID: <3B32E401.70426310@infopuls.com>   Hamlyn Mootoo wrote: > F > This is exactly what the attitude of Apple was years ago: "We have aJ > superior product, and people will come to us regardless".  This attitude  = You are mixing completely different market segements. And the ; attitude of Apple was also completely different from what IS
 suggested.  G > of Apple made Bill Gates a BILLIONAIRE!  If you are not familiar with H > the Pet Rock or the Oscar Meyer Wiener Song, then I would advise doing  > What is the point about Pet Rock and Osca Meyer Wiener song? I> lived perfectly without knowing them until now I see no reason for changing this.  D > some research in this area.  The "smart managers" you seek as yourE > target market, are few, and very far between.  And besides, most ofd  @ This is unfortunatey true but nevertheless not obstacle if there are enough.I  H > these "smart managers" don't make the buying decisions anymore.  ThoseC > tasks by and large rest in the hands of the technologically-ineptn@ > "not-so-smart" managers and financial people who run companiesF > (generally).  Market share determines everything in the U.S. (and by  < VMS is world wide. I'm only talking about smart managers who> make the financial decisions. Your point is exactly what I had@ in mind when I asked about procedures and operation. Having some0 Sculley guy from a VC is the last thing we need.  J > extension) and world computer industry.  Another example IOMEGA.  IomegaI > had great timing, but poor execution.  They should have run the company G > as near as a non-profit entity as they could (even taking a loss sometG > years) and lowered prices to the point where DELL,Compaq,IBM,Gateway, D > etc., would have had little to consider before including their zipE > drives as standard equipment in PC's.  The fact that PC's are stillnF > shipped with 1.44MB floppies is a testament to the lack of sales andI > marketing savvy by Iomega - and a travesty.  So a "smart manager" wouldeF > have chosen to bundle Zip drives in PC's from the start - why didn'tI > they? Because Iomega butchered the marketing incentive (price) for themaG > to do so.  The aftermarket ("not-so-smart" non managers) embraced the H > Zip and Jazz, but what happened? The price was simply too high to makeI > it a "no-brainer" decision for everyone to get one.  On the other hand,oI > if Iomega had put a mass marketing campaign together, and lowered theirwI > price a little, I suspect history would have been much different. Let'soI > say you were the guy who could have made the decision to put Zip drivesoF > into the PC's at let's say DELL.  Your kids look on TV, and this newI > thing called a Zip drive get's plastered on the screen every hour.  NotuA > only might they (the kids) go out and buy one, this is GOING TO I > INFLUENCE your decision to bundle these things regarless of price, even F > if only SUBLIMINALLY.  Mass marketing secretly tells you "Don't be a@ > loser" go with the crowd.  That's why it's so effective - peerH > pressure.  If your still not convinced, call up an ad agency yourself,D > or just talk to any Phillip Morris executive while he's drunk, andI > willing to freely admit that they need to hook kids in the U.S in order , > to continue the revenue stream in the U.S.  : You are talking about different products, different market> segments and different targets (people, companies). The IOMEGA> story isn't complete without the company which made replacable? HDs and competed with them, but anyway nothing of importance ina@ our context. Forget your kids watching TV! They're not the peers( you need to have the band waggon effect.   *VMS is not a cigarette brand!*u  G > I agree that in the perfect world - or at least a sane one - that theuI > superior technologies (based on all the factors such as ROI, stability,JH > etc.) should win out.  Education in the U.S. (I imagine I'll get a lotH > of replies on this) is sadly lacking.  Do an experiment next time yourH > at the mall: Ask a teenager about 15 or 16 to tell you what 20% of $30J > is by doing it in his head.  A lot of them won't even be able to to thisF > on paper right away.  And you want older versions of these people toD > somehow select VMS without seeing it advertised between re-runs ofC > "ER".  It is sad, but true.  I invite further comments on my wild  > rantings here.  ? These are not the managers that decide. And the learning phases > and development of children/teenagers have changed a lot. Some> of them might be brilliant and win a Nobel price when they are	 grown up.n   > HM   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 02:42:21 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>nY Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company should buy VMS VMSV,+ Message-ID: <3B32E8C9.A7DB08D@videotron.ca>@   Christof Brass wrote:a> > VMS is world wide. I'm only talking about smart managers who@ > make the financial decisions. Your point is exactly what I hadB > in mind when I asked about procedures and operation. Having some2 > Sculley guy from a VC is the last thing we need.  ; Agreed. Scully and Palmer are of the same destructive camp.o  I But having a guy such as Steve Jobs with vision, charisma and good camerad! presence would do wonder for VMS.d  ! > *VMS is not a cigarette brand!*p  G I disagree with this. The days where educated scientists made technicaliL recommendations for a VMS solution are long gone. You now have pointy hairedK managers who watch Simpsons and TV and look at the large pictures in ads ono/ trade rags are the ones who make the decisions.r  L These managers are sheep who make sure that they follow the heard as closelyN as possible for a variaty of reasons, one of which is to protect themselves byI alwasy selecting the same solution everyone else appears to be selecting.     M For VMS to make inroads in today,s marketplace, they have to use Marketing to N show VMS as a mainstream solution that those pointy haired managers won't have a problem selecting.  N In other words, you need to use marketing to create a VMS trend and make VMS a trendy product.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:19:07 +0200 & From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>U Subject: Re: Reward for the first of the next 50 posts: which company shouldbuy   VMS $ Message-ID: <3B337E0B.1372@c-lab.de>   Christof Brass wrote:u >  > Bingo - Game Over! >   	 ROTFL^3 !p   WHAT? Seriously ???e    E I just realized that it is rather VMS than DEC/COMPAQ we are speakingi@ about, so my 'idea' was rather one based on wrong assumptions...  @ So, it looks that I'm entitled to dissuade you of this, oh my...   Let's see. rH 1. Siemens itself is striving to become the 'next' GE. I.e., from a pureG shareholder's perspective a good long-term profit growth story, to showpH that such a 'product conglomerate' (from washmachines to process plants)E company is not just a 'profit flatliner' where wins and losses in thepG sectors almost average out. Consequently, computers (SNI) were sold out E (well, shared with Fujitsu) and Siemens Semiconductor was spun off tocB Infineon. Both were branches with a problematical market situationD (Siemens Nixdorf (SNI) had a good market share of PCs in Germany andH Europe, but not large enough to compete with Dell, Compaq, etc, in order@ to get sufficient rebates from OEMs for large orders), or a veryB fluctuating one, as Siemens Semi was heavy in the DRAM market. TheH consequences can be seen when comparing Infineon's share prices over the, last 24 months - skyrocketing and now woosh.E So, Siemens tried and likely will try to get rid of subsidiaries that < are 'growth spoilers' and don't behave in a predictable way.    E > > If similarity would be a decisive factor, I'd appoint ... Fujitsu- > > Siemens. > >-K > > Similar structure: Large PC 'foreground', large mainframe/midframe/UNIXt > > server 'background'. > >wK > > Besides Windows, more than a single additional OS: BS2000, Reliant UNIXeL > > aka SINIX. Not mention different hardware lines, as the UNIX servers run3 > > on MIPS, the mainframes on propietary CPUs (?).[ > >o  B 2. Please consider that Fujitsu-Siemens has already outsourced itsG facility lines in Paderborn to Flextronics. These are the lines for the E Reliant (RM600, RM400) and larger PC servers (Primergy). I'm not sureeE about the facilities in Augsburg (smaller PCs, BS2000 (?)) and, then, # Soemmerda (Fujitsu's consumer PCs).g  F Please also consider that they quite early announced to drop their ownE UNIX variant, Reliant UNIX in favour of Solaris. The main factors forh this decision were clearly: : a) get a single OS for all server hardware: Solaris x86,  %    Itanium/McKinley AND Fujitsu/SPARCeD b) problematic market situation for MIPS-based servers, because also(    showed continued loss of market shareB c) lack of applications for Reliant/UNIX, because apart from that H    'experiment' called RM200, a PC size workstation with R5000 in, hmm, H    '95, SNI just produced servers (small to large: RM300, RM400, RM600).I    Consequently, there were no cheap developer machines, and because the nG    OS was different from IRIX, no merged 'architecture market' to      rI    increase their market share. (Though once they used a 'compatibility' g<    shared library to use at least some tools made for IRIX,     e.g. netscape.o  A So, why then should they engage themselves with 'just another' OShF (sorry, might sound like a sacrilege...) ?? And even an additional CPU1 base (Alpha) if they just getting rid of MIPS ???e    J > > Similar Situation: Future of UNIX servers and mainframes is uncertain,L > > BS2000 is more and more a legacy product, and Reliant UNIX together withI > > MIPS-based CPU modules will be ditched for Solaris on Itanium. Due to-J > > Fujitsu, there is already a full replacement for the RM600/RM400 line,5 > > namely the Fujitsu SPARC servers (GP7000 and up).i > @ > Exactly - it would make much more sense to replace BS2000 with > VMS than any other option.> > The company has more than enough money to port all necessary" > apps beside paying for the deal. >   H Hmmm. I'm not at all a BS2000 expert, having never seen it, never tasted? it, never spoke with experts of it. So this is probably a wrongt extrapolation:  A In my view, the BS2000 market is Germany only with a few spots in F Europe. Main sectors are financial and government/administration. I doH not thing that there are 'new' customers ordering BS2000 gear, thereforeH I called it a 'legacy product' - only BS2000'ers will probably order newA ones. There are already migration strategies, like BS2000-on-MIPS G instead of the propietary CPUs, and UNIX services on BS2000 (like IBM's  OSS ?). D I'd would compare it with the situation IBM might have been in a fewA years ago, when everybody touted that mainframes will die exaclty H 12/31/1999: 'Make sure that we get some profit from it, but don't reallyE extend the business - if the mainframe market goes belly-up, we don'ty2 want an expensive clunker chained at our pockets.'  F Again, I'm not sure if this has changed (as it has changed inside IBM,F apparently) in the last years. Even so, MVS is MVS, but who is BS2000?  B Can't speak about the government sector, but remember having heard% something about financial a year ago:a  @ SBS is hosting mainframes from large institutions, complete withC applications. With BS2000, a major application was/is KORDOBA (from B Siemens/SNI) for general banking (savings and checking accounts, IG think, but not investment). Because SNI (Siemens Nixdorf) decided a fewfH years ago to almost get rid of software development, KORDOBA very likelyE has already a EOL date. Compare this with the major changes in GermanpE and European banking, with more and more focus on investment banking,aC stock trading, etc. Consequently, the CIOs of the leading financialtD institutes in Germany have pressure from two sides: The applicationsB need to be improved and so on, while at the same time most of thisB software is custom developed from either the IT dept. of the banksG themselves or small software houses, heavily customized. No wonder that H there is some rumor that SAP will build (or has already) a dedicated R/3G module for banking. Consequently, there is a trend (CEO level, probablypE not CIO level !! The prospect of having a R/3 thingy managing bankingBE accounts probably drives many IT bosses in banking 'the walls up') toeF ditch their existing applications and hop on that SAP mammoth. In caseF of a existing BS2000 infrastructure, this would probably mean ditchingE the hardware, too. And R/3, well, we had this discussion already. VMScE needs 'thrust' to make a first class R/3 host, to be eligible in thisrB game. Plus, I'm not sure how widespread VMS is in use in financial sector in Europe, save Germany.e  > Next one: There is no record or tradition of VMS in Siemens orH Fujitsu-Siemens or SBS that I'm aware of. Nixdorf had a cluster of VAXes@ back in the late '80 for its hardware development dept. (runningD SCICARDS and pre-PDMS system) but this was quite early ditched afterG Siemens bought Nixdorf in 90. On the other hand, this would mean a good D complement (instead of a 'synergy', with lots of overlapping areas).  H > > Then we have the Synergy Effect (very important, was touted as majorF > > factor when Siemens bought Nixdorf 10 years ago 8-)): very similarH > > product lines, so massive layoff opportunities to boost share prices > > 8-(( > >r  E But that's only if they would merge or buy each other. If they don't,rD why should Fujitsu-Siemens buy an OS (ok, with customers) based on aF hardware that comes from one of its main competitors (PCs, Itanium andA RISC UNIX servers)? I don't see the logic here, sorry. Or is thatr CEO/stock market logic 8-)) ??   > % > Send your bank account information.O  F And, in fact, I do NOT even qualify for this: While having learned VMSG along with UNIX in '87, I haven't seen a (running) VMS machine since 10sF years. Even given away (but not ditched or ebayed) the remnants of ourG old uVAX II GPX, which was mostly running Ultrix V2 when junked in '94,.C so I'm currently without any DEC hardware. There are only 4 old redaG manuals left, MicroVMS 1/2 and the Programming Support ones... (But I'm G waiting for PC164 board someone promised me in exchange for SGI gear inf2 order to at least play around with OpenVMS again).   -- o* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:19:27 +0010n% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aut Subject: Sadness5 Message-ID: <01K52W9R6NTE001TY5@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>o  H Well, this weekend our corporate believe they have done the right thing 7 and gone to Tru64.  Nice advice, nice money for Compaq.o  J A follow-up to Sue's latest mail's, they are seeing no support for Oracle F Financials, nor from a company called MinCom.  Our corporate has been F advised all round (by Compaq) to forsake VMS --- it's dead.  Nor from ' Matlab, nor PSSE (a technical thingie).n  J I still manage (and chiefly program (number-crunching Fortran stuff) for) C an ES40 for 50 or so of our Electrical Engineers.  We run in-house  I programs which occupy nearly 400% CPU (with 4 CPUs).  I'm pretty good at R writing infinite loops :-).o  F Someone a few weeks ago from .au gave a list of Australian Electrical K Industry users of VMS.  TransGrid may now be effectively wiped (apart from f) my crowd who use CPU intensive programs).k  C With the pressures now on from our Compaq contracters (no IT savvy eG personnel in our IT section) for them to take over my machines (and to sC convert to what), I guess I'm glad that I am close to retiring age.c  K Though I'm still only a young pup of 56, I need only to survive till 58 -- eJ with Windows or Unix ..... ?????  At least then I should be able to buy a   small box and become a hobbyist.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,-
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiat   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  F Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most  people,a; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.f   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 13:19:13 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)  Subject: Re: Sadness! Message-ID: <t0WRtx9NYoHc@gaelic>m  6 In article <01K52W9R6NTE001TY5@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, ' paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  [...]iM > Though I'm still only a young pup of 56, I need only to survive till 58 -- dL > with Windows or Unix ..... ?????  At least then I should be able to buy a " > small box and become a hobbyist. >   K Buy an hobbyist system asap, you'll be happy!! I begun into hobbyist VMS 8 rO years ago an now have 3 VMS systems at home (a VAXstation and 2 Alphastations).d  O I can't tell you how many hours of dogfight with DEC's Flight Simulator I spente with my son on our home LAN...  m Patrickd --O ===============================================================================sO pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)o4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================T   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:47:50 -0300c) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brd Subject: Re: SadnessL Message-ID: <OFFEC630B9.1FD33728-ON03256A73.003B3FF3@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Paddye  , Everybody shares this sadness with you ! ! !   Regardss   FC        6 paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au em 22/06/2001 17:19:27  1 Favor responder a paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms       Assunto: Sadness    G Well, this weekend our corporate believe they have done the right thing 7 and gone to Tru64.  Nice advice, nice money for Compaq.f  I A follow-up to Sue's latest mail's, they are seeing no support for Oracle E Financials, nor from a company called MinCom.  Our corporate has beentE advised all round (by Compaq) to forsake VMS --- it's dead.  Nor fromt' Matlab, nor PSSE (a technical thingie).r  I I still manage (and chiefly program (number-crunching Fortran stuff) for)tB an ES40 for 50 or so of our Electrical Engineers.  We run in-houseH programs which occupy nearly 400% CPU (with 4 CPUs).  I'm pretty good at writing infinite loops :-).o  E Someone a few weeks ago from .au gave a list of Australian ElectricaleJ Industry users of VMS.  TransGrid may now be effectively wiped (apart from) my crowd who use CPU intensive programs).b  B With the pressures now on from our Compaq contracters (no IT savvyF personnel in our IT section) for them to take over my machines (and toC convert to what), I guess I'm glad that I am close to retiring age.n  J Though I'm still only a young pup of 56, I need only to survive till 58 --I with Windows or Unix ..... ?????  At least then I should be able to buy ae  small box and become a hobbyist.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,k
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,a NSW 2000, Australiaf   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  E Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for mostm people,i; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:30:45 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c Subject: Re: Sadness8 Message-ID: <6sa6jt4dis7m0920t6l8eucie3iskuk8d6@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:19:27 +0010, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aua wrote:  I >Well, this weekend our corporate believe they have done the right thing D8 >and gone to Tru64.  Nice advice, nice money for Compaq.  C Tru64? I predict you'll have to migrate to Linux down the line. I'd E bet money today on VMS being actively developed after Tru64 is just aa8 memory. That's how I read Tru64/Linux "affinity" anyway.  B And what with this rumour regarding a sell off of the Alpha design team to Intel. Well...  = Now if Compaq were to sell Alpha + VMS to Intel that might be  interesting...   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:25:35 -0400c' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>l Subject: Re: Sadness< Message-ID: <howard-02D66A.08253522062001@enews.newsguy.com>  5 In article <01K52W9R6NTE001TY5@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>,m'  paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:n  J > Well, this weekend our corporate believe they have done the right thing 9 > and gone to Tru64.  Nice advice, nice money for Compaq.@  N That's the way it's going, yes.  VMS -> UNIX.  It's not a bad thing to learn, 8 though VMS is a heck of a lot easier (IMO) to work with. --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:26:45 -0400r' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>a Subject: Re: Sadness< Message-ID: <howard-30F1B1.08264522062001@enews.newsguy.com>  8 In article <6sa6jt4dis7m0920t6l8eucie3iskuk8d6@4ax.com>,'  Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:u  E > Tru64? I predict you'll have to migrate to Linux down the line. I'dl   Hey, we need Tru64 for UCX. :-/d    7 BTW, who supports Linux?  Can you sue 'em for problems?c --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:56:28 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o Subject: Re: Sadness8 Message-ID: <tuf6jtkq5duetli7jkert8s0i0co43uk7j@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:26:45 -0400, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>h wrote:  9 >In article <6sa6jt4dis7m0920t6l8eucie3iskuk8d6@4ax.com>,e( > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: > F >> Tru64? I predict you'll have to migrate to Linux down the line. I'd >n  >Hey, we need Tru64 for UCX. :-/ >  >-8 >BTW, who supports Linux?  Can you sue 'em for problems?  A Anyone who wants to. I can't think of any reason why Compaq can'trC provide the same level of support for Linux on Alpha as they do for ' Tru64 - if that's what they want to do.h -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 09:45:57 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)M Subject: Re: Sadness* Message-ID: <9gvi6l$p7e$1@lisa.gemair.com>  < In article <howard-30F1B1.08264522062001@enews.newsguy.com>,) Howard S Shubs  <howard@shubs.net> wrote:e9 >In article <6sa6jt4dis7m0920t6l8eucie3iskuk8d6@4ax.com>,x( > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: >eF >> Tru64? I predict you'll have to migrate to Linux down the line. I'd >c  >Hey, we need Tru64 for UCX. :-/ >o >s8 >BTW, who supports Linux?  Can you sue 'em for problems?  C Lots of organizations support Linux, including all the DistributiontE vendors (RedHat, Calera, SuSe, Mandrake, etc.).  Seems like you couldoC sue them as easily as you could sue a proprietary OS vendor.  SeemsaC like just about everyone disclaims all warranties of fitness for a e particular purpose.d  F Can you successfully sue Microsoft, Compaq, Sun or IBM for problems?  G Any examples of when anyone actually recovered damages for OS problems?u   >--  >Howard S ShubsiE >"Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"r   -Jordan Hendersonp jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:49:44 -0400 ( From: "Thomas Steuver" <steuver@nku.edu>- Subject: Software to create PDF files on OVMS / Message-ID: <tj6q95mpka1c0d@corp.supernews.com>a  K Is there a package like Adobe Acrobat that runs on OVMS Alpha to create PDFe files from text files?   Thanks,i Thomas Steuver Northern Kentucky University   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jun 2001 16:28:03 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)w Subject: Re: Unix Cryptr, Message-ID: <9gvrmj$1v9g$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ; In article <3b32521c.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>,n5  martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:r |>G |> I think the algorithms used mainly are TripleDES (8-byte hashed PWs,rJ |> salt in the first 2 characters), MD5 (hashed PW starting with "$1$" and> |> ending in a "$"), and Blowfish (IIRC, starting with "$2$").  B Depends on the machine doing the crypting. The original Unix cryptD command (not to be confused with the encryption used in the paasword file) was an implementation of /*9  *	A one-rotor machine designed along the lines of Enigmaa   *	but considerably trivialized.  */i [from the header of the source]   A Some newer versions do DES, but without knowing what the originalo8 file was generated on it may be difficult to decrypt it.   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   O   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:26:38 +0200c) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> ) Subject: Re: VMS applications on the web? , Message-ID: <3B32E51E.A376368A@infopuls.com>   Michael Austin wrote:h > P > I have used this approach for a LOT of different applications -- even databaseS > (Rdb) access.  Although I have also spent time web-enabling a database (Rdb) that T > has some pretty impressive functionality.. including an authorization via email of > data entered by other users. > Q > If your company is interested, I am currently available to take on another sucheQ > project and to save on expenses, I can do this remote.  The wonders of the net.a >  > Michael Austin' > DBA Consultant -- Currently Availables >  > Ian Burgess wrote: > G > > In a world where web access is becoming dominant, what do you thinkh > > of this as a project? ...p > >aA > > In the past we have used menu systems based on real terminalsgC > > or terminal emulators.  This interface is foreign to newcomers,v= > > so perhaps it is time to look at a web based alternative.o > > R > > This project would provide tools so that an application developer could easilyO > > make existing VMS applications accessable to users who need only a browser.t > >nC > > The user needs to be authenticated, then selects an application, > > from a menu. > > = > > For an application run in batch the user would use a formn1 > >  [input data file] - browse locally to upload2* > >  [email] - for log file or output file5 > >  [parameters] - and maybe other Submit qualifiers' > >l > >  [submit] button > >tB > > The submit would use some of the capabilities of DEC SchedulerC > > to wrap the command procedure to be processed and deal with thes
 > > log file.  > >u > > Would it be useful?e > > Would it be feasible?e > >eC > > This is an embryo only.  I wonder if it could be developed intop6 > > something that would give VMS a new lease of life? > >sH > > It is way beyond my resources, but I hope someone somewhere may find > > the idea useful. > > Ian Burgess  > > University of Queensland# > > I.Burgess @ its . uq . edu . aui > > www.its.uq.edu.au   = Very good thing. Is there a URL to try one of those outcomes?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:04:16 +0200n< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>) Subject: Re: VMS applications on the web?e4 Message-ID: <9guqkf$b5a9l$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>  F Ian Burgess schrieb in Nachricht <9gu58j$obk$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>...D >In a world where web access is becoming dominant, what do you think >of this as a project? ... >e> >In the past we have used menu systems based on real terminals@ >or terminal emulators.  This interface is foreign to newcomers,: >so perhaps it is time to look at a web based alternative. >eH >This project would provide tools so that an application developer could easilyL >make existing VMS applications accessable to users who need only a browser.    I As Compaq has a strong eBusiness strategy at whose core is VMS, there aret someI offerings from Compaq in that area, too, like the DECforms Web Connector.    cu,    Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de  One OS to bring them all      |t( http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:24:08 -0400s- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>l) Subject: Re: VMS applications on the web?d+ Message-ID: <3B3346F7.50AAF0@bellsouth.net>    Chris,  U I wish I had one of those apps.  unfortunately they were done on my clients intranet.iT Actually I am in the process of trying to obtain a real cheap license for Rdb and/orX Oracle to "play with".  I don't have any clients willing at this time to help me pay for those licenses.a  & App Synopsis (clients names withheld):   Need:nW To replace an interactive program that would read through extremely large reports (somea
 up to 200Mb).hV The interactive program basically paged through the file 600 lines at a time.  On thisC system there were a little over 43,000 reports generated PER MONTH.,    form to wildcard filename  %  create dropdown box with files found 5 select from radio buttons method for viewing the file.7 display the entire txt file in the browser ( <3Mb only)kJ page through at 600 lines at a time (going forward was easy cannot back up@             read 600 lines from file.  get current record offsetN             on bottom of page use this as the starting point for the next page             open file at offseti%             read 600 lines goto loop)   sear the file for <text> /window ftp the file to your desktopT all done in DCL then ported for use in a unix environment using PERL.  the only hardV part was search w/window.  I used ggrep which has that funtionality.  The unix project1 died and it still runs on OpenVMS using Purveyor.T   2nd one.  O Create an Electronic requisition form using a web-enabled Rdb database. inserts'W requested info in the database and gets processed by the purchasing dept.  Once the req W is generated, an email is sent from Rdb to the authorizor where he/she clicks on a linkeT that will authenticate them, then allow them to review the req with a deny/authorizeU button at the bottom.  Once it is authorized the purchasing group runs a program that-U processes the new reqs and prints them on a printer. (gotta generate that paper traila for the auditors)...   Michael Austin DBA Consultant.a     Christof Brass wrote:    > Michael Austin wrote:b > >eR > > I have used this approach for a LOT of different applications -- even databaseU > > (Rdb) access.  Although I have also spent time web-enabling a database (Rdb) thatiV > > has some pretty impressive functionality.. including an authorization via email of  > > data entered by other users. > >dS > > If your company is interested, I am currently available to take on another such S > > project and to save on expenses, I can do this remote.  The wonders of the net.l > >n > > Michael Austin) > > DBA Consultant -- Currently Available  > >  > > Ian Burgess wrote: > >RI > > > In a world where web access is becoming dominant, what do you thinki > > > of this as a project? ...u > > >eC > > > In the past we have used menu systems based on real terminalscE > > > or terminal emulators.  This interface is foreign to newcomers,m? > > > so perhaps it is time to look at a web based alternative.o > > >tT > > > This project would provide tools so that an application developer could easilyQ > > > make existing VMS applications accessable to users who need only a browser.u > > >iE > > > The user needs to be authenticated, then selects an application  > > > from a menu. > > >n? > > > For an application run in batch the user would use a forms3 > > >  [input data file] - browse locally to uploadS, > > >  [email] - for log file or output file7 > > >  [parameters] - and maybe other Submit qualifiersz > > >. > > >  [submit] button > > >tD > > > The submit would use some of the capabilities of DEC SchedulerE > > > to wrap the command procedure to be processed and deal with the- > > > log file.a > > >J > > > Would it be useful?m > > > Would it be feasible?k > > >,E > > > This is an embryo only.  I wonder if it could be developed intot8 > > > something that would give VMS a new lease of life? > > >nJ > > > It is way beyond my resources, but I hope someone somewhere may find > > > the idea useful. > > > Ian Burgesst > > > University of Queensland% > > > I.Burgess @ its . uq . edu . aue > > > www.its.uq.edu.au  > ? > Very good thing. Is there a URL to try one of those outcomes?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:29:26 -0400 - From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>sJ Subject: Re: VMS Software support access in queue with the wintel weenies?- Message-ID: <3B334836.418C1A1E@bellsouth.net>.  H It appears that they consolidated 1-800-digital as well.   If you didn'tI know it, you would think that the only thing they supported was Proliant._F No mention of Alpha/OpenVMS/Tru64 or Tandem any where on their supportI menus... Sad thing is, CPQ gets more revenue from the big stuff, yet they " still think like a peecee company.   Michael Austin" DBA Consultant... available today!     Rich Jordan wrote:  A > I needed to place a software support call for VMS on one of ourwH > systems today.  Called the number, option 2 for software (note that PCG > support is a different selection), and got a recording that wait time= > would be 15 minutes. >-H > I don't need to call often, but I've never had anything near this everG > happen before when calling the support number.  At least not anywhere30 > other than the consumer peecee support side... >aE > Is this just the way it is these days?  Do we now stand in the same F > line as all the blue-screened presario and proliant users?  Or did I" > just hit an abnormally bad time? >vH > 15 minutes!  Sheesh!  Its like the time I had to call the Q because myB > mom-in-laws q-box (she bought it without asking me :) had died a > horrible software death... >,
 > Rich Jordan 9 > feeling like a peecee user instead of a VMS customer...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:23:32 +0100O* From: "Rachael Padman" <rp10001@cam.ac.uk>, Subject: Where to obtain VMS2IMAP or similar0 Message-ID: <9gvgl8$q9q$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  K I am looking for a source for a utility which will convert VMS mail to IMAPEL folders. From the web, it appears that there are some custom utilities whichJ have been used at a few US sites -- does anyone have a source for VMS2IMAP or similar?   K Apologies if this is has been asked a million times already -- I think I'vetE tried the obvious searches, but I've probably missed several sources.y   Thanks Rachaeli   ---- Rachael Padman0 Cavendish Laboratory, Madingley Rd, Cambridge UK rp10001@cam.ac.uke   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:09:25 +0000 (UTC)w' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) 0 Subject: Re: Where to obtain VMS2IMAP or similar+ Message-ID: <9gvjil$nnu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>i  ] In article <9gvgl8$q9q$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, "Rachael Padman" <rp10001@cam.ac.uk> writes:hL >I am looking for a source for a utility which will convert VMS mail to IMAPM >folders. From the web, it appears that there are some custom utilities which-K >have been used at a few US sites -- does anyone have a source for VMS2IMAPr >or similar? > L >Apologies if this is has been asked a million times already -- I think I'veF >tried the obvious searches, but I've probably missed several sources. >  >Thanksr >Rachael  - What do you mean by convert to IMAP folders ?i  O IMAP is a protocol for reading/manipulating mail remotely. An IMAP aware clientaL talks to an IMAP server which is written to access mail stores on the systemL the server is running on. The IMAP server will be written to handle whatever, mail stores are usually used on that system.  L For instance we use PMDF from process software which includes an IMAP serverK which works with the standard VMS mail store and can also work with a PMDF jB specific message store. (We only use the standard VMS mail store).  I Process (http://www.process.com) also sell two TCP/IP stacks TCPWARE and n* MULTINET which also include IMAP servers. C Again these work with the standard VMS mail store (MAIL.MAI etc ). -    N IMAP servers on UNIX systems (UW IMAPD , CYRUS etc) tend to have to deal with   rather more mail folder formats.  L IMAP does not in anyway control the mail folder format - that is not part of the protocol.   M If you have an IMAP server running on VMS then you can use any IMAP client to G transfer mail between that server's VMS Mail folders and any other IMAPnJ server's mail folders by simply connecting to both servers and moving mailN between the folders. For mass movements of mail between IMAP servers there is , software available to automate this process.      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 09:37:54 -0700< From: alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich)0 Subject: Re: Where to obtain VMS2IMAP or similar= Message-ID: <8af17fe1.0106220837.10dc68b3@posting.google.com>d  b "Rachael Padman" <rp10001@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<9gvgl8$q9q$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>...M > I am looking for a source for a utility which will convert VMS mail to IMAPXN > folders. From the web, it appears that there are some custom utilities whichL > have been used at a few US sites -- does anyone have a source for VMS2IMAP
 > or similar?- > M > Apologies if this is has been asked a million times already -- I think I've.G > tried the obvious searches, but I've probably missed several sources.e  @ I believe there is a simple IMAP server included in the PINE kitA (check your Freeware CD).  Multinet supposedly has one built in. 0D Additionally, there is work being done on an IMAP server for UCX<^J>9 TCPIP Services, but that's not even in external beta yet.u   Aarone -- OpenVMS: the OS MS wanted NT 2bo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:07:07 +0200?% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>o" Subject: Re: X emulation over a PC. Message-ID: <9guqqr$k3u$1@info.service.rug.nl>  9 "Sylvain Plante" <splante@nrcan.gc.ca> wrote in message =-% news:3B32458F.8CD55663@nrcan.gc.ca...- > Hi everobody,2 >=20 >=20C > I'm trying to install an X emulator on a PC to be able to connect: > our OpenVMS server.9 >=20< > Does anyboby knows a good one, to display DecWindows 1.2-3 > with all the fonts and ... >=20 > Sylvain Plante > splante@nrcan.gc.cai >=20  < See www.starnet.com. A simple but fully functional x-server.; A free fully functional evaluation version is downloadable,o= with the only restriction that it must be restarted each timeo after 2 hours.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:02:28 +0100a8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>" Subject: RE: X emulation over a PCN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEFBC@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  K I'd also recommend Hummingbird Exceed for Windows PCs. We've being using itf for a few years now. l   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:46:49 GMTn2 From: seibel_r@localhost.localdomain (Rich Seibel)" Subject: Re: X emulation over a PC; Message-ID: <slrn9j6q2u.4jc.seibel_r@localhost.localdomain>o  E A number of companies are offering what is essentially an X-terminal mC build on commodity PC hardware.  This startup (WWW.PCXPERIENCE.COM)oB puts Linux, X-server, Netscape, and VNC on any old box.  They demoB using an old 386, but the graphics hwd on these old boxes is a bitC lacking.  486's and slow pentiums make excellent Thin Client.  TheysA have no disk, pcxperience puts a boot loader on the network card..   Rich Seibel    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jun 2001 08:12:25 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell)k  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change. Message-ID: <8SMSgJlGQr8m@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  ` In article <DBnNblAyvzg1@malvm5.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:   [stuff deleted]. > I >     It's really fascinating to watch the irrational hatred of SUVs that J > shows up in this thread. My SUV weighs about the same and gets about theM > same gas mileage as a "full size" car from the 70s or earlier - or a modernaO > day pickup truck - but I've seen noone indicate how evil people who drive oldeL > cars or pickup trucks must be - that's a vitriol reserved for SUV drivers.  M The main reason I hate SUVs (and pickups, vans, minivans, mobile homes, etc.) K is because I can't *see* a damn thing.  The old full size cars you refer to G don't sit so *high* and block my view so much.  Even with the old-style O cadillacs, lincolns, and other bulkmobiles, you could easily see around/through-D them to the road ahead because they were at the same *level* as you.  O A *few* SUVs, vans, etc is not that big a deal, because you can see well enoughsC to get by.  But sometimes it seems like everything on the road is a M high-riding, massive-bulk vehicle.   When the traffic is moving at speed, andaE everyone is more spaced out, it's not so bad.  But in a heavy trafficaK situation, especially bumper to bumper, it's like being enclosed in a metaluN canyon.  I can't see forward, backward, or to either side.  Traffic conditionsL always take me by surprise.  If there's a lane closure ahead, I have no ideaN which lane it is, how many lanes it is, whether I should be changing lanes, or which lane to change to.    I Of course, some people buy SUVs precisely so they can sit up high and seeeL everything.  Well, guess what.  That means somebody else can't.  Back in theN old days, when it was mostly just cars, everybody could see equally well.  BigO cars, little cars, whatever.   Nowadays people buy SUVs to see around the otherrL SUVs and those of us who drive regular cars get more and more screwed by the day.  N As a side note, I hate pickups with smooth, flat, shiny back bumpers even moreH than SUVs.  These have apparently been carefully designed to reflect theE headlights of a car coming up behind into the eyes of the driver veryaG precisely.  There is virtually no loss of intensity, so it is basicallyrN equivalent to sticking your face into one of your headlights from a foot away.    K Now this may sound like an "irrational hatred" to you, but SUVs and pickups K cause me real problems on the road.   If cars (and not their drivers) cause L similar problems for the drivers of SUVS just by their existence, I would beJ interested in hearing what they are.   I will continue to despise SUVs and their ilk, thank you very much.b   -- yO ===============================================================================eM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxo: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-).O ===============================================================================-K Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!! O    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!i   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jun 2001 16:57:45 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change, Message-ID: <9gvte9$1v9g$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  . In article <8SMSgJlGQr8m@tachxxsoftxxconsult>,@  wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell) writes: |>P |> The main reason I hate SUVs (and pickups, vans, minivans, mobile homes, etc.)N |> is because I can't *see* a damn thing.  The old full size cars you refer toJ |> don't sit so *high* and block my view so much.  Even with the old-styleR |> cadillacs, lincolns, and other bulkmobiles, you could easily see around/throughG |> them to the road ahead because they were at the same *level* as you.a |> a  I Depends on what you drive.  Full size cars block my view.  SUV's and highe pick-up trucks I can see under.e   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 17:51:42 GMTn From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..comS  Subject: Re: [OT] Climate change8 Message-ID: <su07jtkdjm3njkqp9qqpc5rg5es1fj5g0t@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:43:12 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robertr Deininger) wrote:a  H >Actually, much of what "Ralf" wrote about the Corvair to get his careerK >started turned out to be bogus.  Later research showed the car to be aboute> >as safe as others of its day.  Just being a do-gooder doesn't, >automatically make one honest, or accurate.   Some of it wasn't fiction.  4 Convairs originally came w/ a rear swing-axle design3 (same as early 60's VW).   Go around  corner  fast,n5 and the outside edge of the rear rims could drop down 
 and under ...g  < While VW chg'ed their swing-axles to CV double-joints (68+?)8 I believe it was easier to get into trouble on cornering2 in a Corvair, becuase they were that much faster. 6 (ie, I recall going air-borne in a turbo Corvair back +  in high school;  no, I wasn't driving ...)b   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2001 22:02:28 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell)i2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?. Message-ID: <12zKHV9T36K7@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  R In article <00256A72.005B9436.00@quegw01.btyp>, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com writes: >o >Watching sport is boring? >nO >If you come over here during the football season I'll take you to a game and In+ >defy you not to feel excited and involved!l  u    K Which part does one become excited over and involved with?  The game or ther! hooligan riot associated with it?      --  O ===============================================================================hM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxc: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================pK Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!!.O    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:01:04 +0100p- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>A2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?) Message-ID: <3B334190.AC38C730@bbc.co.uk>i  ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:r  N > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza >i > Watching sport is boring?i >lP > If you come over here during the football season I'll take you to a game and I, > defy you not to feel excited and involved! >   O  what, you drop E's before the game? I hear it makes you like techno music too.    :-)    Sorry, couldn't resist.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:29:53 +0100u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?8 Message-ID: <k4h6jtguc7rehcpjg20oisl3ke5rjtp0d3@4ax.com>  1 On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:01:04 +0100, Tim Llewellyna  <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:   >t >u" >Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote: > O >> Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazaw >> >> Watching sport is boring? >>Q >> If you come over here during the football season I'll take you to a game and In- >> defy you not to feel excited and involved!c >> >sP > what, you drop E's before the game? I hear it makes you like techno music too.  E I've got this theory that they disable the brain's timer chip forcingtC users to take an external clock input from fast repetitive rhythms.   A I should really be siting in a field at Pilton right now. Roll on ; Glastonbury 2002 - foot and mouth and licensing authoritiesh permitting.    Alan the hippy ;-)     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:47:17 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?/ Message-ID: <00256A73.0056BC09.00@quegw01.btyp>e  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    O They DO mess you up after time though - speaking as someone who now has to take D three prescription pills a day to counteract the effect of all those' non-prescription ones over the years...-   ;^D-  L As to taking them to watch football, given my teams performances last seasonN [not to counter my statement about watching football being exciting!] the best? way to watch is after a 'smoke' with your back to the pitch!!!!t  L Now we've gone WAAAYYY off topic so perhaps best to drop this one except via email.  M And try as I might I couldn't get the Amazonian rain forest or SUV's in this,pM although I would offer the observation that the car I drive ISN'T an SUV or at= 4x4 but is probably just as fuel inefficient [Skyline GTR]...a   Steve Sp        9 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> on 06/22/2001 01:29:53 PMh    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)uC From:      Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>, 22 June 2001, 1:29 p.m.t  ) Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?a        1 On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:01:04 +0100, Tim Llewellyn   <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:   >' >n" >Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote: >pO >> Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazat >> >> Watching sport is boring? >>O >> If you come over here during the football season I'll take you to a game anda Il- >> defy you not to feel excited and involved!? >> >dP > what, you drop E's before the game? I hear it makes you like techno music too.  E I've got this theory that they disable the brain's timer chip forcingtC users to take an external clock input from fast repetitive rhythms.h  A I should really be siting in a field at Pilton right now. Roll on ; Glastonbury 2002 - foot and mouth and licensing authorities: permitting.    Alan the hippy ;-)     -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:08:47 GMT$' From: kerkhoff@gmx.de (Volker Kerkhoff)i2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?0 Message-ID: <3b335cf0.31821516@news.bcn.ttd.net>  D On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:16:53 +0000 (UTC), greg@lewis.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory Travis) wrote:a  J >>Belgium????  Okay, is this a joke?  What are the other countries on this >>list?e >l8 >Germany, France, Sweden, etc.  All nominally socialist. >pA Bollocks! Socialism in western european countries is far from thee@ socialist image one may have from the former east countries. TheA difference is much milder, as in Republican / Democrat in the US. D Slight liberal turn for the "Socialists", actually almost all with aC name like "Social democratic" whatever; whereas the "Conservatives"$D often call themselves "Christian Social" something. Marxist ideologyF was removed from the last Western European socialist party's programme? sometimes in the early 80'es as Spanish socialist party went toe4 conquer (rather sucessfully) the vote of the masses.  J >>I for one would like to know the ratio of immigration between the US and@ >>Belgium.  How many US citizens seek a better life in Brussels? >aG >Can't do it.  Belgian law is pretty restrictive regarding immigration.,  F Yeah, right! As in any European country. At least I don't need to takeE a lottery to get a Green Card, as in the US. Actually, as long as youaD have a job which requeres quite a qualification, it's really easy to? get a working permit. Of course, much easier for European Unionh= citizen, as there are kind of "federal" regulations in place.l  E /me thinks we are not so different here in Europe. OK, we're packed awB bit denser, populationwise, but culturally we've absorbed a lot ofC "American Spirit". Socially, it might be different, since we've hadFF mandatory state run health insurance in place for quite some time, and a rather long list of etc. .  > Oh, yes, there is one thing really stopping our progress. RealF de-monopolization of the phone networks and unmetered local calls (for affordable internet access). P   -- s= Volker, with best wishes from Spain (a european country too!)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:40:07 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>2 Subject: Re: [OT] Current Microsoft v DOJ status ?, Message-ID: <9gvoso$1cpm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  _ "Volker Kerkhoff" <kerkhoff@gmx.de> wrote in message news:3b335cf0.31821516@news.bcn.ttd.net...m  @ > Oh, yes, there is one thing really stopping our progress. RealH > de-monopolization of the phone networks and unmetered local calls (for > affordable internet access).  B That's kind of variable across Europe. In the UK, a pressure groupE lobbying for unmetered net access has just wound itself up. Job done. G http://www.unmetered.org.uk/  The interest has largely moved to getting:$ some competition in the xDSL market.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:27:39 +0100P- From: Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk>sC Subject: RE: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager? Q Message-ID: <0262A6086BFBD411959500508B69C5EA134750@london_exch.london.csf.co.uk>e  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0FB2F.DF7315F0  Content-Type: text/plain;I 	charset="iso-8859-1"h  H Maybe "ECP Collector and ECP Analyzer for VMS is free." but when I go toC http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.htmlrI it says "Try again later, a new kit is forth coming. " (and has been thats way for weeks (months?))5 What use is something that's free if I can't have it?e   -----Original Message-----6 From: prosullivan@aol.com [mailto:prosullivan@aol.com] Sent: 20 June 2001 23:41 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0C Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager?a     OK - PCM then ECP (ECM)9  E PCM replacements: I have considered two: Consoleworks from TecSys and> Robocentral from Heriox. 3   Rule:C  I All console manager products are as only as good as their scan files. Try K finding up-to-date scan profiles for VMS 7.x HSG80, ES and GS machines from  anyaI Most sites want an enterprise console manager than works on any platform.a The.I vendor's attitude to updated scan files appears to be 'shrug, it's alwayso been bad, so get used to it'.  L Consoleworks is web-based and is supported by the bits of Compaq pushing theG GS' series as the approved console manager products. It has a very good J interface, runs on VMS and NT. Not so hot on sending messages out to other EMA's in current version  : http://www.compaq.com/inFORM/issues/issue28/ps04cuw-d.html  K Robocentral: client-based, runs on NT. Has autofailover to backup nodes andcH good messaging utilities via Robomon to TNG/Tivoli etc. Recommended by a different bit of Compaq.  5 http://www.heroix.com/products/detail_robocentral.htmm   ECP:  I To get the best out of ECP you need to analyze the data in greater detailO thanL the top 10 metrics in the graphs provided by the ECP Analyzer. The collectorI gets more metrics than psdc ever did, but misses out things like hotfiles  and J the beloved pspa knowledge base, the latter used by consultants (in Compaq and F beyond) everywhere to appear really on top of their game to customers.  F To get the most out of the ecp data file you need to load it into PAWZL (Performance Analysis Web Zone) - using the PAWZ additional graphs facility.I That will let you see all the metrics in the file.  Slightly frustrating:  youiK know the data is in there somewhere, but unless you use the PAWZ or the ECPc6 Capacity Planner, you are not going to see all of it.   E Best thing: ECP Collector and ECP Analyzer for VMS is free. No charge-  C http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.html.     regardsl   paul          A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be 8F legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. B The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this F email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact the  help desk on (+44)(0)870 8704820' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0FB2F.DF7315F0  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"n+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablee  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">r <HTML> <HEAD>H <XETA HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8= 859-1"> H <XETA NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653= 12">H <TITLE>RE: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for Console Manager?</TITL= E> </HEAD>c <BODY>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Maybe &quot;ECP Collector and ECP Analyzer for VMS is=H  free.&quot; but when I go to <A HREF=3D"http://www.openvms.compaq.com/=H openvms/performance-and-capacity.html" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ope=D nvms.compaq.com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.html</A></FONT></P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>it says &quot;Try again later, a new kit is forth com=> ing. &quot; (and has been that way for weeks (months?))</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>What use is something that's free if I can't have it= ?</FONT> </P>  3 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: prosullivan@aol.com [<A HREF=3D"mailto:prosull=4 ivan@aol.com">mailto:prosullivan@aol.com</A>]</FONT>2 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: 20 June 2001 23:41</FONT>3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>yH <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a non-CA replacement for C= onsole Manager?</FONT> </P> <BR>  0 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>OK - PCM then ECP (ECM)</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>PCM replacements: I have considered two: Consoleworks=  from TecSys and</FONT>e3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Robocentral from Heriox. </FONT>g </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Rule:</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>All console manager products are as only as good as t= heir scan files. Try</FONT>aH <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>finding up-to-date scan profiles for VMS 7.x HSG80, =" ES and GS machines from any</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Most sites want an enterprise console manager than w=  orks on any platform. The</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>vendor's attitude to updated scan files appears to b=! e 'shrug, it's always been</FONT>e2 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>bad, so get used to it'.</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Consoleworks is web-based and is supported by the bit= s of Compaq pushing the</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>GS' series as the approved console manager products.=  It has a very good</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>interface, runs on VMS and NT. Not so hot on sending=  messages out to other</FONT>=2 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>EMA's in current version</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://www.compaq.com/inFORM/issues/issue2=H 8/ps04cuw-d.html" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.compaq.com/inFORM/issues=" /issue28/ps04cuw-d.html</A></FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Robocentral: client-based, runs on NT. Has autofailov= er to backup nodes and</FONT>eH <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>good messaging utilities via Robomon to TNG/Tivoli e= tc. Recommended by a</FONT>k2 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>different bit of Compaq.</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://www.heroix.com/products/detail_robo=H central.htm" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.heroix.com/products/detail_ro= bocentral.htm</A></FONT> </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>ECP:</FONT>c </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>To get the best out of ECP you need to analyze the da=  ta in greater detail than</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the top 10 metrics in the graphs provided by the ECP=  Analyzer. The collector</FONT>>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>gets more metrics than psdc ever did, but misses out=   things like hotfiles and</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the beloved pspa knowledge base, the latter used by =! consultants (in Compaq and</FONT>vH <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>beyond) everywhere to appear really on top of their = game to customers.</FONT>k </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>To get the most out of the ecp data file you need to = load it into PAWZ</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(Performance Analysis Web Zone) - using the PAWZ add= itional graphs facility.</FONT> H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>That will let you see all the metrics in the file.&n=% bsp; Slightly frustrating: you</FONT> H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>know the data is in there somewhere, but unless you = use the PAWZ or the ECP</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Capacity Planner, you are not going to see all of it=  </FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Best thing: ECP Collector and ECP Analyzer for VMS is=  free. No charge</FONT>t </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/perf=H ormance-and-capacity.html" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.openvms.compaq.=4 com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.html</A></FONT> </P> <BR>    <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>regards</FONT> </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>paul</FONT>e </P> <BR>   </BODY>' </HTML>G  H <HTML><BODY><P><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Arial" size=3D2>This e-mai=H l including any attachments is confidential and may be <BR>legally priv=H ileged. If you have received it in error please advise the<BR>sender im=H mediately by return email and then delete it from your <BR>system. <BR>=H The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this <BR>e=H mail is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact the<B=7 R>help desk on (+44)(0)870 8704820</FONT></BODY></HTML>i) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0FB2F.DF7315F0--    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jun 2001 11:36:56 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: Re: [TCPIP V5.1] some rants* Message-ID: <3b3311b8$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  \ In article <3B2635FB.2C7D534@compaq.com>, Sheldon Bishov <sheldon.bishov@compaq.com> writes:@ >>Why is the TCPIP$OS_MIBS process looping and how to find out ?B >One possibility is to try a run with debug.  In 5.0 unfortunately. >the only way is to do pipe or screen capture. >= >Outline of steps: >=# >$ @sys$startup:Tcpip$snmp_shutdownhJ >In two separate windows run master and os_mibs subagent (if problems with4 >pipe, run with output to tt and do screen capture): > . >$ pipe mcr tcpip$esnmp_server -t > master.logB >(since problem not in master agent you might want to omit the -t) >and in separate window=) >$ pipe mcr tcpip$os_mibs -trace > os.loga   Thanks.bG This is very useful info, and I hope I'll get some trace files for you.cG It would take quite a lot of time, because it happened only three timesa: so far and I was not able to reproduce the loop (trigger).  L >I'll be interested in results from trace on looping problem, appreciate the
 >suggestions.4   Some more 'suggestions'   G 6) NTP has synchronizing problems now. Today I had on one system a timesL difference of 7min !!! Yesterday this system was rebooted and the systemtimeO was ok after the boot (AFAIK). 7min in 12 hours ? On an NTP server (!) system ?IN I never had such NTP problems before. Neither with UCX/TCPIP nor with TCPware.L And the NTP logfile was of no help either. Seems TCPIP V5.1 introduced a lot of problems...  G 7) The TCPIP$NTP logfile has a problem. In earlier versions, there haverJ been 2 logfiles. One for the service startup and one for the output of theI daemon. Then on 27-May-1999 a change was made to reduce this two logfilesnG to one. But this change was obviously not completed. Now the 2 logfileskK have the same name, but there are still 2 logfiles and both are permanently: open. So why the change ?rI Was the plan to increase confusion or was the plan to redirect the daemon>I output to the service startup logfile (then this logfile should be openednL with 'update' instead of 'new' or the daemon should rather write to stdout).F So, please, complete (or revert) this logfile creation/usage change...   to be continueda   -- d< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888a< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.344 ************************