1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 03 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 123       Contents: (no subject) Re: (no subject) Re: (no subject)* A Compaq Qwestion a VMSer Would Never Ask.. Re: A Compaq Qwestion a VMSer Would Never Ask.. Re: A Compaq Qwestion a VMSer Would Never Ask.A Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? 6 Re: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle6 RE: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle6 Re: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle Re: DCL content (long) Decserver 90M software Does anyone remember DECvoice?$ Does VMS 7.2 still support DECWRITE?( Re: Does VMS 7.2 still support DECWRITE?$ Does VMS 7.2 still support DECWRITE?' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later  Error with SET TIME and NTP  Re: Error with SET TIME and NTP  Re: Error with SET TIME and NTP & Re: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?9 Re: How to convert an indexed file to a sequential file?? < Re: How to replace a multi-volme disk set with larger disks?  Re: HP Announces End Of OpenMAIL/ Re: HP DAT drive now functional but JAVA broken  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  more "disk" IO comparisons Re: new freeware: SIPU.COM Re: New Sun Blade  Re: New Sun Blade  Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing Re: OpenVMS Educational Program  Re: OpenVMS opportunities ) OT/Humour: Essential reading for managers - Re: OT/Humour: Essential reading for managers 4 Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file4 Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file  Re: Possible security hole in... Re: PROD Utility Failure Re: PROD Utility Failure Re: PROD Utility Failure Satellite MV2000 won't boot  Re: Satellite MV2000 won't boot  Re: Satellite MV2000 won't boot  Re: Storage and MTBF RE: Storage and MTBF Re: Umbrella in Germany  Re: Umbrella in Germany  Re: Umbrella in Germany 7 Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes 7 Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes 7 Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes ! Re: VMS?  (was: Re: (no subject))  Re: [info] PCSI restriction * Re: [INFO] wrong answer in Mgmt agents FAQ* Re: [INFO] wrong answer in Mgmt agents FAQ  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:12:52 -0500 (EST)  From: RASTA2020@aol.com  Subject: (no subject) ) Message-ID: <f6.7cb4909.27d174e4@aol.com>   , is VMS an operating system for main frames??   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:19:10 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com  Subject: Re: (no subject) D Message-ID: <OF86D8AD1D.307C3BD0-ON88256A03.007A6FA3@foundation.com>  J It works all the way from the desktop to the mainframe. Go look at the FAQG (or, to put it another way, "faq off"... :) ), which can be fround from  www.openvms.compaq.com.    Shane           + RASTA2020@aol.com on 03/02/2001 02:12:52 PM    To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:    Subject:  (no subject)    , is VMS an operating system for main frames??   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 18:37 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: (no subject) , Message-ID: <2MAR200118373245@gerg.tamu.edu>   RASTA2020@aol.com writes... - }is VMS an operating system for main frames??   @ If you tell us your definition of "mainframe", we'll tell you if it fits.  A But the answer is probably "yes, as well as everything on down to  workstations".   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:33:54 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>3 Subject: A Compaq Qwestion a VMSer Would Never Ask. ; Message-ID: <C5Wn6.2271$TL4.923319@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   7 http://web14.compaq.com/falco/detail.asp?FAQnum=FAQ2859    -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net$ Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:37:06 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Qwestion a VMSer Would Never Ask. - Message-ID: <3AA066E2.417559FD@earthlink.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > 9 > http://web14.compaq.com/falco/detail.asp?FAQnum=FAQ2859   F In the words of Capt. Gregg (from the "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir"), "Oh, blast!"    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 22:52:36 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Qwestion a VMSer Would Never Ask. L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0203012252370001@user-2ive7uv.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <C5Wn6.2271$TL4.923319@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. + Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   9 > http://web14.compaq.com/falco/detail.asp?FAQnum=FAQ2859   I That's an oldie but goodie.  I've seen it years ago in the "humorous help  desk stories" type of list.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:58:26 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was RE: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?; Message-ID: <6IUn6.2230$TL4.867333@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   H "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> factually stated in message$ news:3A9BEF25.B52DED8F@uk.sun.com... > Carl Perkins wrote:  > >  > > I > > It is also the case that they *have* done some work to solve the cost I > > problem. You can buy a fully functiounal DS10 system running VMS in a J > > decent configuration for under $8000. Compare this to the cheapest VMSD > > based system you could buy 5 years ago and I think you'll find a	 reduction H > > in the entry level system cost of nearly a half. It would be good if theyC > > could cut it in half again, but they may not think that this is 
 necessary. > >  > 5 > This sounds great but isn't because the market that 3 > OpenVMS operates in has moved much further than a 4 > halving in cost for an entry level system over the > same five year period.   Point well taken!    > 5 > Just to put the OpenVMS DS10 pricing in perspective 3 > you can get a SunBlade 100 with Solaris 8 for 995 
 > dollars.  G Not quite apples to apples, but it *is* 500MHz system to 500MHz system.  > 5 > Alternatively if you really want to spend 8,000 you $ > could buy a 750 Mhz SunBlade 1000.  K If and when any UltraSparc III parts show up. Haven't heard of any presence J in the channels, and the USIII-based systems remain "constrained" on Sun's. Web site. Not for much longer, one would hope.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 16:50:24 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> ? Subject: Re: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle ( Message-ID: <3AA0159C.A4D3A105@ohio.edu>  L This discussion of clustering technology being sold off to Oracle raises theR question:  how much of that intellectual property is patent-protected, how much is< copyright protected, and how much is trade-secret protected?  Q I seem to recall that some of the early clustering stuff was patented, and by now 1 those patents must be getting near to expiration.   5 Perhaps this is a rational behavior on Compaq's part?   #                                 RDP    --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:02:59 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> ? Subject: RE: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284EAA@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Nic,  G [rathole alert - we have been over this many times before, but what the  hey..]  L As you stated in the attached, there are numerous ways to do clustering. TheI simple fail-over approach is what NT (and some UNIX OS's) provide and for ; many cases in the past, this was considered "good enough".    F Now, fast forward to today and what is coming in the next 12+ months.   L More and more data is being accessed online by much greater numbers of usersB than ever before. Some would say the loads  and RASS (reliability,@ availability, scalability, security) requirements are increasing exponentially.  L In addition, many of the current online web servers are very much "browsing"B and "marketing" type environments. When a server is down, it meansH potentially thousands of users are disconnected - even if only for a fewJ moments while it fails over. Now this is bad enough, but users put up with0 it as they can always return to the site later.    So far, so good.  F Now, todays reality is that the market is rapidly moving towards moneyF related transactions - even with cell phone and PDA devices. So, whileL waiting at the supermarket lineup, you beam the payment to the cash registerD from your PDA, enter your password and just before you get the finalJ confirmation, a server was planned to have some planned maint and an error% is returned "service unavailable..".    I Now, did the transaction commit? Even if the service comes on line again, , what is the status of that last transaction?  A Same scenario's when doing credit card transactions over the web.   L Keep in mind that all platforms require occasional preventative downtime forK things like OS patches (all OS's have some static parameters that require a K reboot to change), and tuning chgs to meet rapidly changing business loads, K HW replacement, OS upgrades (perhaps new functionality required by business  ect).   L While some might argue that some platforms do not need OS upgrades or tuningJ reboots, this might have been true in the past for relatively well definedD application loads. However, I would suggest that todays and upcomingD application loads are exponentially much more dynamic and the chosenL platform absolutely needs to be very flexible in terms of dealing with these rapid changes.    @ So, is simple fail-over clustering "good enough" to meet the new requirements?   I Will it meet the new requirements that essentially state ZERO application E availability impact related to downtime associated with "preventative 4 scheduled maint" related to OS / System / HW issues?  K Now, as you stated in the attached, in a typical share nothing environment, G one server "owns" a subset of resources and "serves" those resources to  other members or clients.   ) Here is a question or two for discussion:   K 1. In a shared nothing environment, the architect estimates(?) the expected L loads, sizes the servers and assigns specific resources to specific systems.    G Now - What does one do when the CPU (or memory) load on the server that   "owns" a resource is exceeded ?   G Upgrade? Ok, but that means downtime and fail-over to a backup node. Of K course, the backup servers need to be upgraded as well if they are expected  to handle failover loads.   H Re-allocate loads between different servers? Yep, DBA's love the idea ofL making changes to their database design without a major amount of regressionF testing. Course, I have heard of one online etailer that does not mind? making major DB changes like this relatively "on the fly".. :-)   E 2. How can one shutdown a server that "owns" a resource in the shared H nothing cluster for proactive maint with ZERO availability impact and noG failover (see comment above about disconnecting thousands of users with 5 their credit cards in hand - even for a few moments).   I As you stated, there are many ways to accomplish the same goals, but when J planning future strategies, do NOT assume the requirements of the past areI in anyway shape or form even close to the requirements that are coming in  the upcoming 12+ months.  C A shared everything cluster like OpenVMS is not the answer to every  situation.    E However, one capability OpenVMS Clusters do provide is the ability to D gradually migrate new users to specific servers in the cluster whileJ allowing current connections to complete what they are doing on the serverG to be shutdown. Part of this capability is a shared file system and DLM L which means all cluster applications have full read-write access to all data from all servers.   H When all connections are off the server in question and running on other2 servers, that one specific server can be shutdown.  H This allows the business to plan server shutdowns for planned maint withA zero application availability impact and no additional middleware  complexities added in.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----) From: Nic P Clews [mailto:nclews@csc.com]  Sent: March 2, 2001 9:24 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? Subject: Re: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle     . After coming back from the DECUS UK clustering- event, I'm not quite sure how the 'perceived' - stranglehold on clustering perfection VMS has  is actually true.    A DLM is only one technique.  6 In the database world (which is not all applications I. know) transaction logs provide an ideal and in, many ways an almost perfect way of providing8 cluster functionality in a distributed data environment.3 This is how Himalaya does it in some cases. In this 6 and others, individual systems have total ownership of3 data, and while this may seen an inefficient way of 0 addressing shared storage, the need for a DLM is removed.  5 From the announcement it appears if, for this release 3 at least, Oracle are implementing a DLM type system / backporting borrowed technologies, but RDB does 5 that, and with 32 bits! Who owns that? Is the cluster 0 the operating system or the application? Does it matter?   . There are some novel techniques up and coming,3 ServerNet 2 (will be available on VMS?*) is/will be 1 on multiple platforms and with the amount of work / some developers are putting into such things as - process mirroring, the efforts to bring about , distributed scaleable availability are huge.  0 (* Some proprietary cluster techniques are being* ported to a number of operating systems, I1 don't have a copy of my notes at hand to confirm, % its from memory. VMS was on the list)   ' OK I am a VMS bigot, but other OS's and 0 applications are playing catch up for delivering( the functionality, and in some cases are) arguably ahead. In terms of availability, ' service failover may be perceived to be ) primitive, but when placed in the context - of process mirroring, nothing more is needed.   1 Tru64 is starting to offer the best of all worlds , from a technical point of view but as we all+ know, just being good often isn't enough to  succeed.  3 Hey, I know I've probably rattled a few cages here, - but lets discuss around this. VMS is a proven 2 method, but there are other ingenious ones kicking4 around. Maybe this is off topic, maybe it isn't. I'm/ reporting what I observe. Maybe VMS could learn 1 from some of the other systems around. Most of it , is bleeding edge and some of it is unproven.   These are interesting times.   All opinions etc.    Regards, Nic Clews CSC nclews at csc dot com.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 00:40:35 -0500' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ? Subject: Re: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracleo( Message-ID: <97pvpl$amo$1@pyrite.mv.net>  4 Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageH news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284EAA@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net... > Nic, >tI > [rathole alert - we have been over this many times before, but what the  > hey..]  H Yup:  each time you set forth false assertions about what VMS can do andK others supposedly cannot, and each time (at least each time that I have thesJ time and patience) I correct you.  Either you have no memory, or no shame.  G I'll leave your somewhat wandering and verbose description below so youCD won't accuse me of selective cutting, but won't bother to respond to  anything but the salient points.   >eJ > As you stated in the attached, there are numerous ways to do clustering. TheaK > simple fail-over approach is what NT (and some UNIX OS's) provide and fort< > many cases in the past, this was considered "good enough". > G > Now, fast forward to today and what is coming in the next 12+ months.S >mH > More and more data is being accessed online by much greater numbers of usersaD > than ever before. Some would say the loads  and RASS (reliability,B > availability, scalability, security) requirements are increasing > exponentially. >eC > In addition, many of the current online web servers are very muchr
 "browsing"D > and "marketing" type environments. When a server is down, it meansJ > potentially thousands of users are disconnected - even if only for a fewL > moments while it fails over. Now this is bad enough, but users put up with1 > it as they can always return to the site later.o >  > So far, so good. >CH > Now, todays reality is that the market is rapidly moving towards moneyH > related transactions - even with cell phone and PDA devices. So, whileE > waiting at the supermarket lineup, you beam the payment to the cashm registerF > from your PDA, enter your password and just before you get the finalL > confirmation, a server was planned to have some planned maint and an error& > is returned "service unavailable..". > K > Now, did the transaction commit? Even if the service comes on line again,w. > what is the status of that last transaction? >tC > Same scenario's when doing credit card transactions over the web.m >lJ > Keep in mind that all platforms require occasional preventative downtime foriK > things like OS patches (all OS's have some static parameters that requiree aMF > reboot to change), and tuning chgs to meet rapidly changing business loads,D > HW replacement, OS upgrades (perhaps new functionality required by business > ect).F >wG > While some might argue that some platforms do not need OS upgrades or- tuningL > reboots, this might have been true in the past for relatively well definedF > application loads. However, I would suggest that todays and upcomingF > application loads are exponentially much more dynamic and the chosenH > platform absolutely needs to be very flexible in terms of dealing with these. > rapid changes. > B > So, is simple fail-over clustering "good enough" to meet the new > requirements?d   Absolutely.  See below.t   >yK > Will it meet the new requirements that essentially state ZERO applicationrG > availability impact related to downtime associated with "preventativem6 > scheduled maint" related to OS / System / HW issues?  F Yup, as much as VMS does.  After all, cluster state transitions aren'tK instantaneous:  they're just fast enough not to be a problem, and fail-over-A can be as well - especially in cases where it's planned, since anaJ explicitly-instructed fail-over doesn't need to wait to make sure one node+ is really dead before the other takes over.i   > @ > Now, as you stated in the attached, in a typical share nothing environment,I > one server "owns" a subset of resources and "serves" those resources to  > other members or clients.  >o+ > Here is a question or two for discussion:- >-D > 1. In a shared nothing environment, the architect estimates(?) the expectedE > loads, sizes the servers and assigns specific resources to specificA systems. >- > I > Now - What does one do when the CPU (or memory) load on the server that/! > "owns" a resource is exceeded ?   J Upgrade the server.  Yes, there are limits, but damn few situations that a  good-sized SMP box can't handle.   >SF > Upgrade? Ok, but that means downtime and fail-over to a backup node.  C Wrong:  it means downtime *OR* fail-over to a backup node.  And therH failover, taking from a few seconds to about a minute (though there's noD reason a planned fail-over needs to take anything like a minute, andH improvements here are likely), doesn't constitute 'downtime' much if any* more than a cluster state transition does.    OfMD > course, the backup servers need to be upgraded as well if they are expected > to handle failover loads.l  H So you upgrade the backup server, fail over the primary, upgrade it, andE you're done (the primary is now the backup).  If the backup server is K processing its own load as a primary (a configuration that lets you use theeC extra processing power you bought, as long as a slight slow-down is I acceptable when one server fails and the entire load falls on the other),-G then fail it over before starting the preceding sequence of operations.n  F You can even create an N + 1 cluster configuration where the load of aH failed server can be distributed among the survivors - very much as loadK gets taken up in a VMS cluster, though it needs to be more manually plannedT out beforehand."   >rJ > Re-allocate loads between different servers? Yep, DBA's love the idea ofC > making changes to their database design without a major amount ofg
 regressionH > testing. Course, I have heard of one online etailer that does not mindA > making major DB changes like this relatively "on the fly".. :-)r  J Avoiding the need to re-partition data is a legitimate shared-disk clusterH advantage.  But, as noted above, there are damn few situations where youJ can't just roll in a larger SMP box to handle the increased load, avoiding any need to re-partition.m   >uG > 2. How can one shutdown a server that "owns" a resource in the shared J > nothing cluster for proactive maint with ZERO availability impact and noI > failover (see comment above about disconnecting thousands of users witho7 > their credit cards in hand - even for a few moments).i  H Exactly the way Sun clusters do it.  They create a two-tier system, withF application servers as the front-end and data servers as the back-end.F Connections are maintained only with the front-end servers, and when aJ front-end server will be taken down for maintenance no new connections areJ permitted (the others take up the slack) and it can be upgraded as soon asE the last existing connection disappears (just as you've described VMSeK clusters as handling the problem).  The front-end servers use NFS (or maybe I Sun's cluster file system by now, if it's finally appeared) to access the A back-end data servers - and if a back-end data server fails or issJ intentionally taken down, its partner takes over its disks and the clientsK continue their existing connections (via IP address take-over) and existing.F locks (support now exists for rebuilding NFS lock context after such aJ failure) without noticing anything more than the fail-over latency itself.   >nK > As you stated, there are many ways to accomplish the same goals, but when-L > planning future strategies, do NOT assume the requirements of the past areK > in anyway shape or form even close to the requirements that are coming inO > the upcoming 12+ months. >4E > A shared everything cluster like OpenVMS is not the answer to every  > situation. >sG > However, one capability OpenVMS Clusters do provide is the ability tocF > gradually migrate new users to specific servers in the cluster whileL > allowing current connections to complete what they are doing on the serverI > to be shutdown. Part of this capability is a shared file system and DLMpI > which means all cluster applications have full read-write access to all  data > from all servers.=  I Just as the applications on the application servers do in the Sun cluster E configuration I described above (and have described to you many times J before).  And there's no reason an NT cluster couldn't do the same, though- MS has so far been slow to travel that route.-   >-J > When all connections are off the server in question and running on other4 > servers, that one specific server can be shutdown. >sJ > This allows the business to plan server shutdowns for planned maint withC > zero application availability impact and no additional middlewarew > complexities added in.   As does the Sun approach.    - bill   >u
 > Regards, >a > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > Compaq Canada Inc. > Professional Servicess > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:50:37 -0600n7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: DCL content (long)u- Message-ID: <3AA05BFD.63FA9C83@earthlink.net>y   Syltrem wrote: > J > > Another "wish list" item for me would be to have the ARCH_NAME keywordG > > work between cluster nodes. For now, HW_NAME is all you can get for  > > other than the local node. >  > ???y > $ > $ say f$gets("arch_name","kronos") > Alphao$ > $ say f$gets("arch_name","pallas") > VAX   G *Sigh* I guess V7.2 is border for that one - no schmae V7.1-2 or lower.g   -- u David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:18:53 -0800.. From: "Olson, Ingemar" <IOlson@dairyworld.com> Subject: Decserver 90M software M Message-ID: <763C579A82F7D3118EE400D0B74723D10166B881@exchsrv.dairyworld.com>i  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A36F.284B049Ae Content-Type: text/plain;, 	charset="iso-8859-1"t  G We have a number of DS90M's, some older than others, but all with flashw memory.a  I The software version of the older ones is usually V1.5, whereas the newerr ones are V2.2.  K I would like to upgrade the V1.5's to V2.2, but the MNENG2.SYS file we havevD isn't the latest. In fact it says "... SW V1.4" somewhere inside it.L Presumably this means that all the existing ones are booting from flash, and( so never need to access the MNENG2 file.  L I know I should be able to reload the flash memory from the load server, but7 obviously I would need a more current MNENG2.SYS first.r  0 Does anyone know where I can find such a beast?   
 Ingemar OlsonZ  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A36F.284B049Ae Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"e+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablee  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">l <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =s charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2650.12">.% <TITLE>Decserver 90M software</TITLE>r </HEAD>s <BODY>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We have a number of DS90M's, some older than others, =! but all with flash memory.</FONT>d </P>  E <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The software version of the older ones is usually = - V1.5, whereas the newer ones are V2.2.</FONT>o </P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I would like to upgrade the V1.5's to V2.2, but the = H MNENG2.SYS file we have isn't the latest. In fact it says &quot;... SW =D V1.4&quot; somewhere inside it. Presumably this means that all the =G existing ones are booting from flash, and so never need to access the =i MNENG2 file.</FONT></P>v  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I know I should be able to reload the flash memory =A from the load server, but obviously I would need a more current =  MNENG2.SYS first.</FONT></P>  C <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Does anyone know where I can find such a beast? =i </FONT>c </P>  & <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ingemar Olson</FONT> </P>   </BODY>d </HTML>s) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A36F.284B049A--o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 22:27:42 -0600s7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>a' Subject: Does anyone remember DECvoice?n- Message-ID: <3AA072BE.4D89CDCC@earthlink.net>m  F We won't be running DECvoice much longer, but I wanted to see if I can simplify things anyway.o  G Does anyone know how to automate the startup of a DECvoice application,sE instead of using the screen-oriented VAE$AM program? Does VAE$AM haveiE any command-line options to perform tasks that would normally be donee using the menus?   --   David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 22:25:33 GMTa From: clark@sander.stsci.edu ()t- Subject: Does VMS 7.2 still support DECWRITE? ) Message-ID: <97p6kt$ena$1@tomm.stsci.edu>6  * Does Alpha VMS 7.2 still support DECWRITE?  9 We just upgraded to VMS 7.2 from VMS 7.1 and now DECWRITE 8 complains that the license has expired. The licenses for2 both DECWRITE and DECWRITE-USER don't expire until/ 30-OCT-2001 under our CAMPUSWIDE Authorization.S  < The support list for DECWRITE indicates that its maximum VMS; supported version is 7.1. Did the VMS 7.2 installation killr; DECWRITE or does the license manager just have to be reset?    Thanks for your help.t   Kerry Clarkr clark@stsci.eduo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:58:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.1 Subject: Re: Does VMS 7.2 still support DECWRITE?i, Message-ID: <3AA02587.422AF974@videotron.ca>   clark@sander.stsci.edu wrote:s, > Does Alpha VMS 7.2 still support DECWRITE?  # Yes it does support decwrite at 7.2e  % Have you checked your system clock ? s  F On my workstation, I have decwrite and decwrite-user license (from the hobbyist kit).   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:49:19 -0600 (CST)h From: sms@antinode.org- Subject: Does VMS 7.2 still support DECWRITE? ) Message-ID: <01030217491934@antinode.org>m   From: clark@sander.stsci.edu ()e  ; > We just upgraded to VMS 7.2 from VMS 7.1 and now DECWRITEn) > complains that the license has expired.o  C    This may be in the class of frequently asked questions.  If youriF complaint is that you see the following monolog box, then it's a known problem:  B +---+------------------------------------------------------------+B | - |                    DECwrite Message                        |B +---+------------------------------------------------------------+B | A valid license is not registered for this product.  You may   |B | continue using the product for evaluation purposes (demo mode) |B | but                                                            |B +----------------------------------------------------------------+B |                           [OK]                                 |B +----------------------------------------------------------------+  ?    (Everyone likes the way it ends.)  The work-around is to addd. something like the following to someplace like SYS$STARTUP:WRITE$STARTUP.COM:  L $ install                                            ! New ---vvvvvvvvvvvvvvL add sys$system:decwrite.exe             /open /header /shared /priv = cmkrnl9 $! CMKRNL required to avoid a spurious license complaint.s  G    If you're not aready installing the .EXEs, doing this one (this way)c should be enough..  H    Alternatively, give all the users CMKRNL.  (Installing the image with the privilege may be safer.)  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)oC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)4G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)e9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)u   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Mar 2001 18:52:55 GMT& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later0 Message-ID: <97oq67$l03@dispatch.concentric.net>  B > I'd agree about the COST of C/C++. The value is much lower. YourE > reference to M$ and unix seals the point I think. In fact, with the H > support costs included, I think you could argue that the 'value' is in > fact negative. >tB Actually I wouldn't agree.  The sales numbers don't bear that out.B The majority of the revenues derived in the software industry as a@ whole are for products written in C/C++.  I'm not saying that it" should be, but that's the reality.   Rick...x   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:09:33 -0800r! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.come0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than laterD Message-ID: <OFB7FA4B23.95E0B081-ON88256A03.0068EC4D@foundation.com>  B I forget who said it first, but "You can write Fortran code in anyH language". I must say that I've yet to find a language where this is not1 true. It's usually a bad idea, but it's possible.    Shane           A koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) on 03/02/2001 05:27:20 AMo   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt cc:s  1 Subject:  Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than lateri    D In article <OFFAFA898D.FD99694B-ON88256A02.006A0760@foundation.com>,# Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:y > H > AFAICR, I have never had to resort to pointer arithmetic, in C or C++.I > Maybe I've just been lucky in the kinds of projects I've had to do, buttC > it's never seemed necessary. It's not that I've been particularlyf avoiding
 > it, either.e >rF > Genuine curiosity here: could one of you give me an example of where* > pointer arithmetic is necessary, please? >c  E Generally not so necessary, but insidiously encouraged.  When we weretC moving a lot of programmers from Fortran to C, those who kept doing B array accesses instead of pointer arithmetic were accused of doing	 "C-tran".   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingi   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Mar 2001 19:20:57 GMT& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later0 Message-ID: <97orqp$kvu@dispatch.concentric.net>   >oJ > I disagreed with Shane's comment (to which you agreed) that it should be1 > mandatory to program for a period in assembler.t > C Let me see if I can make some sense out of Shane's comment for you.hD I tend to agree with him, not because you need to EVER write code inF assemly language (except a tiny amout of OS code to deal with specificJ machine issues).  The issue is really that just studying assembly languageC and writing simple programs does NOT give the programmer a feel forc what really happens.  D Once you've written a fair amount of assembly code, you get a betterF feel for how things happen at the lower level and how a compiler mightH translate your high level contruct into real machine code.  Knowing thatJ will make programmers more likely to write code that is straighforward and therefore more maintanable.e  K You're right, however, that most programming can bed totally seperated fromhI the machine entirely and that all most programmers need to worry about is K how to get the job done.  I still think that slow bloated Windows apps comen out L of the fact that most of those programmers have no clue about the machine orK resources or anything else.  The philosophy is that the machine will handler that or the next generation will.     Rick...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:08:33 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)e0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later/ Message-ID: <ta02uhij5s0o40@news.supernews.com>b  / bill@cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote inn! <97omck$9k1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>: p  E >In article <OF2253DC41.DB6B5919-ON88256A03.00083164@foundation.com>, % > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:d >|> B >|> I've always said that programmers should be forced to write inF >|> assembler for a year before being let loose in the real world. TheI >|> more you understand, the better you do regardless of the tools you'red >|> using.   >oH >Finally something I can agree with wholeheartedly.  Especially the last
 >sentence. >a >billl >s  K Here Here!  My understanding of "the machine" usually exceeds that of most  L of my peers, owing largely to writing (6502, 6809) assembler code from 1981  - 1985.o  H Ever seen Micro$oft's "BizTalk" programming environment?  You drag/drop K programming flowchart symbols into the workspace to construct if/then/else eH logic, loops, etc.  There's little hope that a newbie working with this L tewl will will gain the necessary low-level exposure to become a proficient 6 software engineer.  A "disabling technology", perhaps.   ws   -- e1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Sixty Grand. >>d   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 16:38:45 -0500a From: William_Bochnik@acml.com0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later> Message-ID: <OFFC579402.7BA2861A-ON85256A03.0076D611@acml.com>  4 and thus goes all the expertise in writing OS's.....    / bill@cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote ine  <97omck$9k1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>:   >In articlet9 <OF2253DC41.DB6B5919-ON88256A03.00083164@foundation.com>,a% > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:  >|> ? >|> I've always said that programmers should be forced to writed in; >|> assembler for a year before being let loose in the reals
 world. The< >|> more you understand, the better you do regardless of the tools you're
 >|> using. >n? >Finally something I can agree with wholeheartedly.  Especiallye the last
 >sentence. >  >billl >h  = Here Here!  My understanding of "the machine" usually exceedsp that of mostA of my peers, owing largely to writing (6502, 6809) assembler code 	 from 1981n - 1985.i  = Ever seen Micro$oft's "BizTalk" programming environment?  Youk	 drag/drop = programming flowchart symbols into the workspace to constructu if/then/else= logic, loops, etc.  There's little hope that a newbie workingd	 with thisj@ tewl will will gain the necessary low-level exposure to become a
 proficient6 software engineer.  A "disabling technology", perhaps.   ws   --1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Sixty Grand. >>    Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **t          F ______________________________________________________________________  : The information contained in this transmission may contain< privileged and confidential information and is intended only< for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the< intended recipient,  or an employee or agent responsible for? delivering this message to the intended recipient,  any review, @ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication> is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,A please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy,# all copies of the original message.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:42:35 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>n0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later, Message-ID: <3AA04C0B.2DB13D13@infopuls.com>   Rick Cadruvi wrote:e >  > Paul Repacholi wrote:  >sD > > I'd agree about the COST of C/C++. The value is much lower. YourG > > reference to M$ and unix seals the point I think. In fact, with thehJ > > support costs included, I think you could argue that the 'value' is in > > fact negative. > > D > Actually I wouldn't agree.  The sales numbers don't bear that out.D > The majority of the revenues derived in the software industry as aB > whole are for products written in C/C++.  I'm not saying that it$ > should be, but that's the reality. > 	 > Rick...w   I agree to Pauls statement. But the number/value/cost is not important. This is a mere statistical argument which doesn't help anything without analysis. To aspects have to be regarded: almost all C/C++ programs/libraries/OSs are a collection of bugs especially UNIX/Linux and Micro$oft's programs and OSs. It's a big difference if you start programming with an unsafe language like C/C++ or if you learn and are beeing taught a safe language like Pascal first. You can this observe with Apple. In the first years their SW was Pascal biased e.g. the Macintosh system managers which would nowadays be called APIs. But with moving to C/C++ the quality went down but not that fast and that low because most of the Apple software developers knew how to program in a 5 safe language and they used this skill even in C/C++.    Do you know what a "vision" is?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 03:18:52 +0000.) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later, Message-ID: <3AA0629C.D330D925@infopuls.com>   Dan Sugalski wrote:P > 3 > At 12:20 AM 3/2/2001 +0000, Christof Brass wrote:  > >Dan Sugalski wrote: > > >n7 > > > At 03:00 AM 3/1/2001 +0000, Christof Brass wrote:e > > > >Dan Sugalski wrote:	 > > > > > < > > > > > At 12:22 AM 2/28/2001 +0000, Christof Brass wrote:K > > > > > >I decided to drop PERL beginning of 2000 as I got the impression-K > > > > > >that its capabilities of handling complex/nested data structuresnJ > > > > > >and its flexibility in extending data structures are very poor.I > > > > > >To my understanding the knowledge about the data structures is I > > > > > >in the code not in the data structure itself. There is no easy K > > > > > >way to understand a complex data structure or to find out how itP, > > > > > >is built up. Do I miss something?	 > > > > >cD > > > > > Apparently, yes. It's dead-simple to build up complex data > > structures in L > > > > > perl, and generally simpler to extend them at runtime than in most	 > > othere > > > > > languages. > > > > M > > > >With extending I meant statically extending them because of additional  > > > >requirements. > > >S > > > That's trivial as well.r > >bH > >Technically yes. Practially tedious and error prone. Want an example? > M > Not particularly. Practically speaking, it's neither tedious nor that error M > prone, and if you really want to be cautious perl has a hash variant with aSF > fixed list of allowable keys. (Which can be set on a per hash basis) > P > > > >And about understanding complex data structures: How do you find out whatN > > > >type a certain hash element has if you have deeply nested hashes and/or > > > >arrays (lists of lists)?" > > >MQ > > > Generally I read the documentation. I find that's the best way to deal withsO > > > things. Runtime introspection is certainly possible, and straightforward,.L > > > but if you're not sure of things when you write the code, no amount of, > > > runtime snooping is going to help any. > > F > >This is exactly where the problem of PERL comes in: it is very timeH > >consuming to read the "data structures" to find out what is in there. > B > Once again, no it isn't. While the data structures are specifiedK > differently--hashes instead of structs, for example--there's no practical K > difference in dealing with them between perl and C. (Or Pascal, or COBOL,mJ > or Fortran, or C++) The only difference I can think of is that perl letsL > you skip some of the mandatory declarations that the other languages have,M > but that's it. (And I'm sure you're not complaining when shortcuts bite youbI > for having taken them, right?) Walking the structures can be simpler in<K > perl than in other languages, as generic code can walk hashes and arrays./   You missed the point. PERL data structures (oxymoron) cannot be read like even in C because they aren't declared. Unfortunately I have to repeat my explanation: PERL doesn't offer data types, instead you always deal with the instances. The knowledge about: these instances is in the code (or in your head) but only in the data structure after it has been created at runtime. Which leads to two major problems: there is no way to enforce proper building up the data structure in advance and no way to look at a specific point of the program to "see" the structure. The only thing you can see if you are lucky is the way the structure is created.  D > This certainly isn't an argument that perl's the be-al and end-allK > language--it isn't. The language is definitely inappropriate for a numbersB > of tasks, and has flaws. You've not hit any of them yet, though.  a We all know a lot of other flaws which are not interesting to discuss because they are so obious.r  - >                                         Dana > K > --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------d4 > Dan Sugalski                          even samuraiA > dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenM= >                                       teddy bears get drunks   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 03:29:54 +0000d) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> 0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later, Message-ID: <3AA06532.4F048BC0@infopuls.com>   William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:  > 6 > and thus goes all the expertise in writing OS's..... > 1 > bill@cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in1" > <97omck$9k1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>: > 
 > >In articlet; > <OF2253DC41.DB6B5919-ON88256A03.00083164@foundation.com>, ' > > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:  > >|>-A > >|> I've always said that programmers should be forced to write  > in= > >|> assembler for a year before being let loose in the real  > world. The> > >|> more you understand, the better you do regardless of the > tools you're > >|> using. > >oA > >Finally something I can agree with wholeheartedly.  Especiallyw
 > the last > >sentence. > >d > >billt > >o > ? > Here Here!  My understanding of "the machine" usually exceedse > that of mostC > of my peers, owing largely to writing (6502, 6809) assembler code1 > from 19810	 > - 1985.r > J > Ever seen Micro$oft's "BizTalk" programming environment?  You drag/drop L > programming flowchart symbols into the workspace to construct if/then/elseO > logic, loops, etc.  There's little hope that a newbie working with this tewl nM > will gain the necessary low-level exposure to become a proficient software  / > engineer.  A "disabling technology", perhaps.  >  > ws >  > --3 > << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Sixty Grand. >>- >  > Warren Spencer > Senior Software Engineer > The Associated Press > A > ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **-   Programming in assembly language can regarded as very harmful because in most cases structure and regularity of the code is sacrificed for performance gains. What can be learned from assembly language programming? It is ridiculous to think that you will-] have a clue what the highly optimising DECC compiler does if you know how to program the Z80.    Instead it is important to have a knowledge appropriate to the tools you use. If you use an OS API you have to study the documentation about the efficiency of the calls and routines. If you use Ada you have to understand the Ada rendevouz concept if you } want to use it to avoid misusing it. Knowing the AXP instruction set, even be able to memorise it, doesn't help you anything.l   Visualisation of algorithms and data structures is an important aspect of program quality. Having a tool to manipulate them directly is great. What you need, of course, is a proper documentation of what makes sense.h   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:05:36 -0300 (EST)- From: becherini@vortex.ufrgs.br-$ Subject: Error with SET TIME and NTP, Message-ID: <01030219053617@vortex.ufrgs.br>  O _______________________________________________________________________________1     	hi !   & 	we have a MicroVAX 3300 with VMS 5.5.  - 	when I try to modify the time with SET TIME,(( 	I see a error that I never seen before.  < ------------------------------------------------------------  $ SET TIME=02-mar-2001:18:51:0.0# %SET-E-NOTSET, error modifying time 0 -SYSTEM-F-IVSSRQ, invalid system service request< ------------------------------------------------------------  ( 	I've tried to implement NTP on Multinet: 	in the same system, but when it tries to modify the time, 	another error occurs:  < ------------------------------------------------------------8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   2-MAR-2001 18:54:39.45  %%%%%%%%%%%" Message from user SYSTEM on XETROV< MultiNet Server: NTP: $SETIME invalid system service request< ------------------------------------------------------------   	any ideas ?   	best regards,  J   ________________________________________________________________________K  |                                                                        |.K  | Fabio Becherini              System & Network Manager, Webmaster UFRGS |uK  |________________________________________________________________________|f   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 23:56:12 +0100i* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: Error with SET TIME and NTP* Message-ID: <3aa0250c$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  N In article <01030219053617@vortex.ufrgs.br>, becherini@vortex.ufrgs.br writes:! >$ SET TIME=02-mar-2001:18:51:0.00$ >%SET-E-NOTSET, error modifying time1 >-SYSTEM-F-IVSSRQ, invalid system service requestd  + I bet DECdts (of DECnet-Plus) is running...    --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888p< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 22:58:39 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)( Subject: Re: Error with SET TIME and NTP3 Message-ID: <zAVn6.1$qc.93@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>   N In article <01030219053617@vortex.ufrgs.br>, becherini@vortex.ufrgs.br writes:  . :	when I try to modify the time with SET TIME,) :	I see a error that I never seen before.G ..! :$ SET TIME=02-mar-2001:18:51:0.0t$ :%SET-E-NOTSET, error modifying time1 :-SYSTEM-F-IVSSRQ, invalid system service request  ..
 :	any ideas ?-   D   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ.  Specifically, please see the section B   entitled "Why can't I do a SET TIME command?".  You will need toF   disable NTP, or you will need to adjust the time on the time server.E   (You've ceded control of system time to NTP, now you want it back.)p  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:21:09 +0000c) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>e/ Subject: Re: Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?r, Message-ID: <3AA04705.57D2B004@infopuls.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > N > In article <OFE90404C2.B2E9EB30-ON03256A02.006C16F3@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,. >  fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes: > |>I > |> I dont know why some people like to:   # ps -ef  and # df -k   ! ! !oB > |> Probably they feel powerful in knowing something which nobody > |> knows  ! ! !   :-)m > > > Nobody??  I'll bet there are a lot more people who know what >  >         ps -ef and df -k >  > means than know what > Q >  ANALYZE/AUDIT/EVENT_TYPE=(NOLOGIN,NOLOGOUT) SYS$MANAGER:SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNALl >  > means. > @ > Your little piece of the world is  a lot smaller than you seem@ > to think and with the attitudes shown here it is likely to get> > much smaller.  Remember, in the example of Microsift we haveB > all learned that quality is not a necessary feature for success. > A > All of VMS's advantages will mean diddly when the only place iti5 > is being run is in the basements of people like me.u >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   The attitude shown here is exactly what is appropriate for this NG! Most of us don't like UNIX crap. Your arguments clearly show that you don't understand logic. The point was that liking the poor UNIX command line processing (yes I know it depends on theh shell but the problems are the same - read The UNIX-Haters Handbook if you don't know what I mean) and the weekneses of the most UNIX tools seems to be strange. The percentage of people really mastering the weired UNIX command line processing, thel regularity free command names, switches and parameters, and the complexity of combining them with pipes and awkward processing options which are necessary because of the lack of concept is substantially lower than the percentage of people understanding VMS commands thoroughly.  : Working with UNIX adds an unnecessary level of complexity.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:19:44 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>aB Subject: Re: How to convert an indexed file to a sequential file??, Message-ID: <3AA00060.B78E329D@videotron.ca>  M > > Im trying to convert an indexed file to a sequential file so that recordsxF > > can be merged faster.  I would like to use a DCL command for this.  J Instead of taking the indexed file, convert it to sequential, merge it andN then convert it back to indexed, have you considered using the CONVERT command to do it all in one step ?   $HELP CONVERT file  ( look at the /MERGE command in particular   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:12:32 -0600d7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>eE Subject: Re: How to replace a multi-volme disk set with larger disks?E- Message-ID: <3AA06120.BC0DFBAF@earthlink.net>h   "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:g > [snip]L > Well, VMS 7.2 allows you to initialize very large disks with a clustersize > of 1.0  F Assuming it's not a mixed-version or mixed-architecture cluster, yes - that's true.  1 >  I'd prefer upgrading to creating a volume set!   E ...presuming the application can be run on that version. Some cannot..  C Personally, I've never had a problem using volume-sets. I've had tolH write a lot of extra code to process volume-sets, but it works just fineH when the source is not a volume-set. Had to write a lot of extra code to deal with shadow-sets, also.  , I'm sure it's just a matter or preference...   -- s David J. Dachtera* dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/_  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:24:49 -0800, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>) Subject: Re: HP Announces End Of OpenMAILn4 Message-ID: <97os1h$qp0ke$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  ? This is about equivalent to discontinuing LinkWorks.  Don't getl so worried.    jim-  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:97op78$c9j$1@joe.rice.edu...@0 > HP OpenMAIL ending (URL wrapped to two lines): > + >   http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/f! >   0,1199,NAV47_STO58154,00.html  > ( >   HP to end OpenMail with next version! >   Computerworld News & Featurese > 6 > Let's hope similar headlines about VMS never appear. >i6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:34:19 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e8 Subject: Re: HP DAT drive now functional but JAVA broken* Message-ID: <3AA003CB.EAE3D842@virgin.net>   John L Ferguson wrote:    J > The latest Java SDK v 1.2.2-3 fixes the Display Postscript problem.  SeeN > http://www.compaq.com/java/documentation/1.2.2/ovms/docs/JDK122_VMS_RELEASE_ > NOTES.HTML#FIXED_PROBS.a >t  > The kit can be downloaded from1 > http://www.compaq.com/java/download/index.html.a >d  N Thanks for the prompt response. I'll download it Monday. Then have yet another& attempt at making java acrobat work...   >s > John   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 20:04:25 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <97ouc9$hpe@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  W In article <t9vkj7o2aigmb2@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:t >/M >I understand all this, I even agree with most of your numbers.  What I don'tpL >understand is how a company (or two) can take the worlds best O/S and spendL >10 to 15 years fumbling and bumbling until the O/S is relegated to a niche.M >Do your rating for 1987 and then explain the turn around.  That's the part Ia >don't understand. >   G In the late 80s the cheap/fast Unix workstations appeared from Sun and 3J others.  Digital didn't respond until much too late, and then responded so@ feebly that it made no difference.  They were slaughtered in theI workstation market.   The little workstation manufacturers then grew intotI very large companies and started selling bigger and bigger servers.  More:I markets lost.  They simply refused to cut margins and compete on price.  oG (Truly ironic since we bought our first 11/780 way back when precisely cH because, at the time, it was the best deal around, even if that meant a D quarter of a million dollars.)  Meanwhile Digital managment kept itsJ collective head firmly up its collective arse.   They sucked as much moneyM out of VMS as they could and essentially flushed most of it down the toilet. dK For instance, AlphaNT.  For instance, both forays into PC production.  Then I they started signing agreements with Microsoft, which is an action only arK company as well run as IBM is likely to be able to survive. Digital didn't.i  0 Bad management kills good technology every time.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edua? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:12:06 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3A9FFE96.B341640C@videotron.ca>   Island Computers wrote:a > Sadly - people don't tend t read junk mail any more > So if anyone is interested, we can do a 533cpu with Motherboard PC164LX forc > $399- > (I know I know - I am trying to sell again)   K Until this week when someone pointed to the fact that you had a cheap alpha N box available, I had always though of your  outfit as just another reseller of Compaq used equipment.  L If you presented the information that you build affordable Alpha clones, you2 might get more people to notice your presence/ads.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:31:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3AA00317.EDF4ED9D@videotron.ca>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote:F >    I mean to say it's not worth doing for the purpose of selling VMSE > systems - there isn't enough market for VMS workstations to warrants
 > the effort.   M The availability of affordable workstations is not to generate profits. It isr- to generale momentum in the VMS marketplace. n  K In the short term, it would signify that Compaq no longer wants to restrictoM VMS to only the most expensive systems, a change that would be very welcomed.n  N In the medium term, it would help VMS management by being able to claim higherM growth numbers.  If you sell one very large system per year, and you then add Z 2 workstations to your sales, you have just increased by 200% your sales (unit shipments).  M Furthermore, any increase in Alpha sales will help the alpha platform and theo; more volume is generated, the cheaper the chip will become.h  2 > I love VMS, but I wouldn't go out and buy dozens9 > of VMS workstations - there's no business case here fort > doing so.h  J There are many uses for VMS workstations. In a cluster, they are great forR managing/keeping quorum, and they are great for system management and programming.  H Do not forget that there is still a lot of applications that run on VMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 12:59:55 -0700s1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)a" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <fbhgzT9a5a2n@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3AA00317.EDF4ED9D@videotron.ca>,  2    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   > Malcolm Dunnett wrote:G >>    I mean to say it's not worth doing for the purpose of selling VMS F >> systems - there isn't enough market for VMS workstations to warrant >> the effort. > O > The availability of affordable workstations is not to generate profits. It isr/ > to generale momentum in the VMS marketplace. e > M > In the short term, it would signify that Compaq no longer wants to restrict-O > VMS to only the most expensive systems, a change that would be very welcomed.< >   J    I maintain they could do that a lot better ( and easier ) by making theK servers more affordable. Of course since it appears they have zero interest % in doing either this is a moot point.i   > O > Furthermore, any increase in Alpha sales will help the alpha platform and then= > more volume is generated, the cheaper the chip will become.8 >   H     Which was kind of my other point. They should build a low-cost AlphaJ workstation to prevent Sun from stealing all their Tru64 business. If it's1 feasible to make that box run VMS all the better.s   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Mar 2001 21:51:09 GMT& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations0 Message-ID: <97p4kd$l0g@dispatch.concentric.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message  I  > There are many uses for VMS workstations. In a cluster, they are great  for G > managing/keeping quorum, and they are great for system management and0 programming. > K Don't forget that this strategy will require that cluster licenses be cheap  as well.H Too bad they weren't last year.  I had to upgrade our systems so that weG could hope to maintain them and upgrade them in the future.  I bought a  DS-10.E I would have bought several VMS workstations if the pricing was right 	 including J cluster licenses.  However, it was cheaper to move everyone to PCs and get moreG user licenses and have them use SecureCRT as a terminal emulator to runi their 	 VMS apps.t  C Where are we now a year later?  All the user VMS apps are moving tom Windows apps instead.   L What does that mean in the fuure? No more VMS systems at all in the business? (except my programming systems to maintain packages I work on).   L License pricing does matter.  It doesn't have to be $99.  It has to be a LOT loweryC than it is today.  The truth is we would have bought more expensivef
 AlphaStationso> than the PCs to stay with VMS, but not at the software license differentials.  Even ifsG clustering was included with VMS, it probably would have been okay witht currente VMS pricing.     Rick...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:25:18 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>g" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3AA0560E.481DC5AF@infopuls.com>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 2 > In article <97mpc5$kt6@dispatch.concentric.net>,- >    "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> writes:i > M > > John's point is well taken.  Also, how long before everyone wants all thesL > > cheap PC hardware for graphics, audio, whatever supported on these cheapM > > systems.  I can hear it now - "Why won't my cheap made in China non-brandN > > sound card or modem work?" > >xF >     In general I'd tend to agree. There's not really much market forO > VMS workstations anymore anyway. If this discussion was taking place 10 yearswJ > ago it might be worth arguing there needed to be a VMS workstation whichC > competes with Sun (in fact people did argue that - Digital didn't-R > listen and the rest is history), but not today - they'd never get the volumes toO > make it worthwhile. I think it's more important there be "cheap" VMS servers,-C > but I don't think we're talking $1000 there, more like $2000-5000i > (depending on configuration).i  3 Have you heard of the concept of creating a market?-   ------------------------------    Date: 03 Mar 2001 08:42:25 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations- Message-ID: <873dcvn0ni.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  ( "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> writes:  D > Don't forget that this strategy will require that cluster licensesF > be cheap as well.  Too bad they weren't last year.  I had to upgradeE > our systems so that we could hope to maintain them and upgrade them D > in the future.  I bought a DS-10.  I would have bought several VMSC > workstations if the pricing was right including cluster licenses._C > However, it was cheaper to move everyone to PCs and get more user0D > licenses and have them use SecureCRT as a terminal emulator to run > their VMS apps.E  E > Where are we now a year later?  All the user VMS apps are moving to< > Windows apps instead.g  E > What does that mean in the fuure? No more VMS systems at all in the.E > business (except my programming systems to maintain packages I works > on).  E > License pricing does matter.  It doesn't have to be $99.  It has toeE > be a LOT lower than it is today.  The truth is we would have boughtpE > more expensive AlphaStations than the PCs to stay with VMS, but notl@ > at the software license differentials.  Even if clustering wasF > included with VMS, it probably would have been okay with current VMS
 > pricing.  , And how many of the new PCs are Compaqs Ric?   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.m@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 03 Mar 2001 02:07:44 GMT& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations0 Message-ID: <97pjlg$kvr@dispatch.concentric.net>   None...  Why should they be...  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageo' news:873dcvn0ni.fsf@prep.synonet.com... * > "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> writes: > F > > Don't forget that this strategy will require that cluster licensesH > > be cheap as well.  Too bad they weren't last year.  I had to upgradeG > > our systems so that we could hope to maintain them and upgrade themdF > > in the future.  I bought a DS-10.  I would have bought several VMSE > > workstations if the pricing was right including cluster licenses.-E > > However, it was cheaper to move everyone to PCs and get more useroF > > licenses and have them use SecureCRT as a terminal emulator to run > > their VMS apps.h >tG > > Where are we now a year later?  All the user VMS apps are moving tod > > Windows apps instead.0 >7G > > What does that mean in the fuure? No more VMS systems at all in the4G > > business (except my programming systems to maintain packages I work@ > > on). >aG > > License pricing does matter.  It doesn't have to be $99.  It has to-G > > be a LOT lower than it is today.  The truth is we would have boughteG > > more expensive AlphaStations than the PCs to stay with VMS, but noteB > > at the software license differentials.  Even if clustering wasH > > included with VMS, it probably would have been okay with current VMS > > pricing. >G. > And how many of the new PCs are Compaqs Ric? >r > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.uB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:16:10 +0000e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> " Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3AA053EA.411B30A5@infopuls.com>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > + > In article <3A9FBD21.DDE439FE@bbc.co.uk>,e6 >      Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes: > >  > > Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > > J > >>     This is where deals like the hobbyist license and the cheap boxes2 > >> Islandco is advertising should meet the need. > >.K > > There seems to be a big difference between the hobbyiest scheme for VMShN > > and Sun's current approach to Solaris, where, if what we have been readingQ > > here is true, you can develop your buisiness on Solaris and only start payingoJ > > once your business grows to the point where you deploy 8 CPU hardware. > >pI > > The hobbyist and CSA programs are not to be sneered at but you cannotgJ > > develop inhouse business applications with either, as I understand it. > E >    Quite right, my comment was in the context of "cheap VMS systemseB > for home use" ( where I'm assuming "home" use is of the hobbyist- > nature rather than a home-based business ).o > G >    I said elsewhere that the issue to me is cheap VMS servers, rathertB > than workstations. One of the things I didn't mention ( but haveF > said before ) is that the exhorbitant cost to add users to a "cheap"H > VMS system is a significant stumbling block to the adoption of low-end > VMS systems. > D >    Sun's model is certainly much cheaper. One must assume that SunG > figures they can make a profit through the expanded sales of hardwarecF > that a cheap Solaris license will promote. Compaq, OTOH, must figureG > that very few people want VMS at any price and their best strategy isrF > to keep milking the remaining customers for as much as they can get.   There seems to be a misunderstanding: selling hardware with a price tag high enough to really earn money is important. The SW doesn't cost you anything if you have it already e.g. because of the high end system as long these low cost systems don't reduce your high end business.D   I'm sure there is a market for VMS desktops e.g. for brokers/day traders who can't afford downtime of even their front end systems. And there are the snobs that don't want to spend time on problems like Y2k or W2k. Look at this as a copy of the low cost PC market where Apple is competing in a similar role. VMS/AXP could be in the WS market what the Macintosh is in the DT and portable market.p  + Do you know what heaven is in EDP industry?   } Design by Apple, SW implementation and HW architecture by DEC, HW construction and production by IBM, Marketing by Micro$oft.a  ) Do you know what hell is in EDP industry?   } Design by Micro$oft, SW implementation and HW architecture by IBM, HW construction and production by Apple, Marketing by DEC.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:21:16 +0000_) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> " Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3AA0551C.913C6823@infopuls.com>   David Mathog wrote:d > [ > In article <97mpc5$kt6@dispatch.concentric.net>, "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> writes:d > O > >I also think that PART of the Microsoft NT reliability problem is the crappy0N > >hardware it has to run on.  If VMS supported all the junk that NT supports,G > >I doubt it would be as reliable and would probably be more maligned.i > I > Apparently it's more like MOST of the reliability problem.  A friend of-K > mine (who many years ago did VMS) tells me that if you buy IBM PC servers@K > (and he may have meant specific models) and install the IBM drivers - andtI > avoid sticking anything else in the box (no other graphics cards, etc.) & > then the machines are very reliable. > J > But addressing your other point, it isn't having a lot of choices that'sG > the most important thing.  What is needed is one very solid componentmJ > supported for the device class at a price that isn't outlandish.  (ThereJ > can also be better ones at a higher price for those who need to, or wantI > to, pay for the extra performance.)   VMS doesn't need to support 30 CD I > writers - one will do.  Similarly, one sound card would be good enough.aK > Conversely, the Elsa card is a dog.  So the minimum support level has notoL > been achieved - there is a device, but it is does not perform well, nor is > it particularly inexpensive.   This also holds for the SW. You don't need 1001 ERP solutions or CAD packages but you need one outstanding. Look at the Macintosh.  D > >I suspect that MOST arguments for low cost VMS systems comes fromM > >people who would like faster newer VMS systems and aren't willing to spendiL > >the money on them, rather than a  REAL need in the marketplace that makes > >it worthwhile.. > G > You just defined the marketplace.  People who like VMS but think that"4 > the price premium Compaq charges is not justified. > M > >Having said that, I think a compromise between rellay expensive and reallyaJ > >cheap makes sense and I personally am in favor of  really cheap becauseL > >I want a faster, nicer, etc... VMS system at home.  It pisses me off thatF > >my PC is WAY faster and cheaper to upgrade.  I want my compiles andL > >other VMS stuff to be LOT's faster (like instant as they are with my PC). > I > Nearly all of that apparent speed is coming from the file caching, someoI > comes from the compiler not checking as well, and a tiny bit comes fromtK > Alpha code being larger than x86 code.  It _would_ be nice to have an IDEeL > for Compaq C, Fortran etc.  And the debugger is nearly useless on C++ codeH > - which is certainly not a good thing if you ever want to get software > ported onto VMS.   Is there any hope to get VMS C/C++ free? I strongly disagree to that idea to make it easier to let the C/C++ crap creep in. The debugger shows a natural reaction if it refuses to debug a bug (i.e. C++ program).  
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduy@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:30:31 +0000h) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>t" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3AA05747.105F2CD2@infopuls.com>   John Vottero wrote:i > A > "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messagei( > news:97ogpb$9es@gap.cco.caltech.edu...B > > In article <t9su0jgohj2k97@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" > <John@mvpsi.com> writes: > > >aL > > >Who or what is OpenVMS competing against?  It's being beaten by Windows > and ( > > >Solaris and I don't understand why. > > >3 > >9H > > Your kidding, right?  Just in case you aren't, and speaking only forK > > _small_ systems, here's why.  Numeric scores are 1-10, 10 being good or3 > > best, 1 being worst. > >oC > >                        VMS             Solaris          WindowshC > > Lots of software       1  no           7  yes           10  yes 9     Not necessary see my other post to Davids HW analysisa  D > > speed of software      3  low          8  high           9  high&                               Not true  C > > cost of software       1  ultrahigh    5  medium         9  low-9                               Not true if you look at TCO   C > > cost to obtain system  1  expensive    4  low-medium     8  lowwC > > cost to obtain OS      1  expensive   10  free           3  lowa&                            exaggerated  F > > cost to maintain*      5  medium       5  medium         6  medium     I > > reliability            9  high         9  high-delta     1  don't askiI > > marketing             -3  oxymoron     7  good          10  excellentrI > > mindshare              1  don't ask    8  high          10  max'd outfA     What do you mean by that? Meeting other people to hold hands?p  I > > vendor's management    1  horrific     7  good           9  excellent &                            exaggerated  K > > academic program       1  harmful      7  good          10  unnecessary,I > > suitability for        0  zero         5  fair          10  excellenty > >  "desktop" usage > >m? > > average score         1.9             6.8               7.9a > >   (/12)  > >h > N > I understand all this, I even agree with most of your numbers.  What I don'tM > understand is how a company (or two) can take the worlds best O/S and spend M > 10 to 15 years fumbling and bumbling until the O/S is relegated to a niche.cN > Do your rating for 1987 and then explain the turn around.  That's the part I > don't understand.g  8 Would you like to comment on the numbers in more detail?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:44:03 -060007 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>o" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations- Message-ID: <3AA05A73.8CC72F4B@earthlink.net>m   Island Computers wrote:A >  > David9 > J > We have dealt once with a company named computer intelligence - who were? > also claining to be the largest  direct mail house in the USAt  # No, Dave, you didn't pay attention:-  H There is but one Direct Marketing Association. Metromail is its database# home. There is no question of this.w  C There is but one National Consumer Database. Metromail is its home.i There is no question of this.   ! What else can I clear up for you?h   -- a David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 19:22:49 -0700i1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)A" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <S48d3Z0GzrFR@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3AA0560E.481DC5AF@infopuls.com>, s/     Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:r >>  N >> > John's point is well taken.  Also, how long before everyone wants all theM >> > cheap PC hardware for graphics, audio, whatever supported on these cheapeN >> > systems.  I can hear it now - "Why won't my cheap made in China non-brand >> > sound card or modem work?"r >> >G >>     In general I'd tend to agree. There's not really much market for P >> VMS workstations anymore anyway. If this discussion was taking place 10 yearsK >> ago it might be worth arguing there needed to be a VMS workstation whichdD >> competes with Sun (in fact people did argue that - Digital didn'tS >> listen and the rest is history), but not today - they'd never get the volumes to P >> make it worthwhile. I think it's more important there be "cheap" VMS servers,D >> but I don't think we're talking $1000 there, more like $2000-5000  >> (depending on configuration). > 5 > Have you heard of the concept of creating a market?   K    Sure all you have to do is sell the box cheap enough ( probably not thatmH hard to accomplish ) and make thousands of applications available for itL so people will have something to use it for ( next to impossible probably ).  K    Personally I'd hate to see Compaq take off on a tangent like this beforeyK they show they're capable of addressing all the concerns we've stated abouteB the cost of the existing systems. Once they figure out how to sellI a DS10 size system but with dual processors, 1GB of memory, 36GB disk(s), N unlimited use VMS licenses and clustering for under $6000 then, and only then,@ should they think about low-cost VMS workstations. I didn't justD dream up that number - Dell sells a dual processor P1000 server withI a similar hardware config and Linux for just over $4000, so even at $6000c* it's a stiff premium over the competition.  G    Once you understand that Compaq has no interest in expanding the VMStD market except into narrowly defined high-end niches you'll see why a6 $1000 VMS workstation will never see the light of day.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 19:50:31 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)# Subject: more "disk" IO comparisonse, Message-ID: <97oti7$hpe@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  L I've run the "mybenchmark" disk/file IO speed tests on a variety of systems.K While this has mostly served to illustrate just how badly VMS sucks at thistD particular type of fundamental operation it has also turned up a few surprises.  For instance:b  H   On Tru64 these tests run at exactly the same speed on a DS10 as a DS20R   A 466 Mhz DS10 is as fast, or faster, than an Itanium Blazer running at 666 Mhz.  N I don't have access to a P4 or 1.2 Ghz Athlon running Linux - if any of you doE please run the benchmarks on those.  (On WNT or W2k would be ok too.)-  G The new read file caching present in 7.3FT can be compared to a a 7.2-1e  system without any file caching.  F The DS20 supposedly has twice the memory bandwidth of a DS10, and whenK running on Unix mostly what this test measures is memory bandwidth and filerI cache efficiency.   I think what this is telling us is that each CPU on atG DS20 has the same bandwidth as that of a DS10, but that both can run at I full speed.  Which doesn't help here because the code is single threaded.oH Or maybe there's some other explanation.  But I was really expecting the& DS20 to be twice as fast as the DS10.   4 You may pick up the programs and full results from:   =    http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/mybenchmark.zip   8 After my signature is the current summary table found inI [.systems]AAA_COMPARISON_TABLE.TXT See AAA_README.TXT in the distribution + for a description of the various programs. h   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduo? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech eJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************  7 This is a table showing MYBENCHMARK speeds on a varietyw9 of platforms.  Times shown are in seconds.  The tests are 8 from the MYBENCHMARK suite which measure various aspects+ of "disk" I/O and file caching performance.d    : Tests to local disks and/or through file cache or RAMdisk:S      maketestf    mystart       myread        mysplit      Disk  OS        HardwareoD Notes      maketest      myopenin      myopen        mysplitbinary  P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------b  2   -     0.33   0.01   0.01   0.17   0.17   0.41   1.14  /tmp  Linux64   Blazer Itanium (666Mhz)b  3   -     0.42   0.00   0.00   0.28   0.24   0.64   0.62  /tmp  RH 7      Proliant 550 (450Mhz)  b  5   0.90  0.40   0.00   0.00   0.20   0.20   0.70   1.30  /tmp  SunOS 5.7 Ultra60 (360 Mhz)      b  7   2.90  0.20   0.00   0.00   0.10   0.10   0.50   0.30  /tmp  Tru64     DS10L (466 Mhz)        b  9   3.40  0.20   0.00   0.00   0.10   0.10   0.60   0.30  /tmp  Tru64     DS20 (500 Mhz)         a 12   1.46  0.29   0.00   0.00   0.14   0.11   0.40   0.37  /tmp  RH 6.2    DS10 (466 Mhz)        lc 16   -     0.43   0.01   0.01   0.30   0.64   1.10   0.97  RAM   VMS 7.2-1 DS10 (466 Mhz) (FASTRMS)sh 11  19.85  1.36   0.02   0.01   0.20   4.46   7.76   7.94  local OVMS7.3FT DS10L (466 Mhz) (FASTRMS)    c 15   -     1.77   0.02   0.04   0.47   9.05  16.62  14.38  local VMS 7.2-1 DS10 (466 Mhz) (FASTRMS)hc 14   -    26.46   0.11   0.01   0.54   7.75  46.51  39.10  local VMS 7.2-1 DS10 (466 Mhz) (Vanilla)    Tests to networked disks: S      maketestf    mystart       myread        mysplit      Disk  OS        Hardware-D Notes      maketest      myopenin      myopen        mysplitbinary  P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------b  1   -     2.29   0.01   0.01   1.14   1.40   5.49   4.67  NFS   Linux64   Blazer Itanium (666Mhz)b  4   1.20  0.70   0.00   0.00   3.60   0.50   1.70   3.80  NFS   SunOS 5.7 Ultra60 (360 Mhz)      b  6   3.50  1.50   0.00   0.00   0.10   2.10   6.00   4.70  NFS   Tru64     DS10L (466 Mhz)        b  8   3.50  1.40   0.00   0.00   0.10   2.20   6.20   4.70  NFS   Tru64     DS20 (500 Mhz)         j 10  35.57 34.33   0.03   0.02   0.20   5.55  43.27  40.24  MSCP  OVMS7.3FT DS10L (466 Mhz) (FASTRMS)        F 1. Linux64 on a Blazer Itanium (666Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system.3 Using /home (NFS mounted from spe253) . 08-FEB-2001.  F 2. Linux64 on a Blazer Itanium (666Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system. Using /tmp . 08-FEB-2001  E 3. RedHat7 on a Proliant 5500 (450Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system.  Using /tmp . 08-FEB-2001  F 4. SunOS 5.7 on an Ultra60 (360 Mhz) - the Caltech ITS "clyde" system.& Using /home (NFS mounted). 02-MAR-2001  E 5. SunOS 5.7 on an Ultra60 (360Mhz) - the Caltech ITS "clyde" system.e Using /tmp. 02-MAR-2001n  C 6. Tru64Unix 5.1 on a DS10L (466Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system.gC Using /usr/bin/time on the login directory which is on /home, whichy4 in NFS mounted and served from "spe253". 08-FEB-2001  C 7. Tru64Unix 5.1 on a DS10L (466Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system.o6 Using /usr/bin/time on the /tmp directory. 08-FEB-2001& MAKETESTF: Creating test file, fortran  B 8. Tru64Unix 5.1 on a DS20 (500Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system.C Using /usr/bin/time on the login directory which is on /home, whichg4 in NFS mounted and served from "spe253". 08-FEB-2001  B 9. Tru64Unix 5.1 on a DS20 (500Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system.6 Using /usr/bin/time on the /tmp directory. 08-FEB-2001& MAKETESTF: Creating test file, fortran  M 10. OpenVMS 7.3 field test on a DS10L (466Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system.MA Using USER1 login directory which is served from VMSSERV which isd= an AlphaServer 1200 5/400 and the device is a DEC RZ1CB-CA.  r/ FASTRMS variant of these programs.  08-FEB-2001k  M 11. OpenVMS 7.3 field test on a DS10L (466Mhz) - the Compaq testdrive system.eA Using $2$DKA100, which is a SCSI disk on "spe202".  Using FASTRMSn variants.  09-FEB-2001  @ 12.Redhat 6.2 on a DS10 (466Mhz U2W disks) - my "barrel" system,6 Using /usr/bin/time on the /tmp directory. 08-FEB-2001  A 14. OpenVMS 7.2-1 on a DS10 (466 Mhz U2W disks). "seqaxp" system.a* RMS set to defaults.  No FASTRMS settings.  A 15. OpenVMS 7.2-1 on a DS10 (466 Mhz U2W disks). "seqaxp" system.m' RMS set to defaults.  FASTRMS settings.u  A 16. OpenVMS 7.2-1 on a DS10 (466 Mhz U2W disks). "seqaxp" system.s4 RMS set to defaults.  FASTRMS settings. On a RAMDISK   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:02:27 -0600w7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>i# Subject: Re: new freeware: SIPU.COMt- Message-ID: <3AA05EC3.4236540F@earthlink.net>S   Bob Koehler wrote: > O > In article <7nMzOlL+C0y9@ludens>, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis) writes:a > >>? > >> 2)  Unziping the sipu.zip with the latest unzip I got fromrI > >>    www.openvms.comaq.com created stral-lf files even though the dataoG > >>    was variable length records.  I had to set file/attr=rfm:var onfK > >>    both aaaredme.txt and sipu.com.  Perhaps something was skipped wheno5 > >>    you zipped it (I tried unzip and unzip -"V")?- > >- > > I'll check it. Sorry.1 > G > I still have this problem.  Maybe there's a conflict between your ZIPw5 > and Compaq's UNZIP.  Please try it with the latest.p  E When you see this problem, there is only one answer: the .ZIP archiveoF was created incorrectly. The only fix is to re-create the .ZIP archive$ with the correct qualifiers/options.  b --   David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:23:31 -0800h- From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>d Subject: Re: New Sun Blade+ Message-ID: <3AA07FD3.B79DB6F@peoplepc.com>   ? The Sun Blade 100 is a another feeble attempt for Sun to unload B yesterday's technology.  Please note that this system uses the nowC ancient UltraSparc II family processor.  The Sun Blade 1000 use thed6 UltraSparc III processor which EV6 can easily clobber.  G The Sun Blade 100 is and upgrade from the Ultra 5 (1 PCI slots, onboards2 video with no upgrade) and Ultra 10 (4 PCI slots).    
 Jack Patteeuw     * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >  > Again. . . > C > I will repeat.... Compaq needs to develop a new Compact Alpha ...x > 0 > Or Sun will have the dominance in workstations > K > http://www.sun.com/2001-0227/sunblade/;$sessionid$5PNYJJQAABARPAMTA1FU5YQi > U > I dont understand why Compaq dont have standard workstations and still refurbishingh= > ES-40 and DS-10 and saying they are "unix workstations"....n > A > Compaq is losing this marketing.....or is it already lost ?????h > F > Sun, SGI, HP, IBM have standard workstations  to the marketing ! ! ! > A > Compaq put a graphical card in one machine and says it is a WS.o > 	 > Regards  >  > FC   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 19:07:03 -0700a1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)  Subject: Re: New Sun Blade, Message-ID: <o45rcJS0nKA9@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  , In article <3AA07FD3.B79DB6F@peoplepc.com>, 2    Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> writes:A > The Sun Blade 100 is a another feeble attempt for Sun to unloadiD > yesterday's technology.  Please note that this system uses the nowE > ancient UltraSparc II family processor.  The Sun Blade 1000 use then8 > UltraSparc III processor which EV6 can easily clobber. > H     Maybe so, but perhaps the point is that it's cheap and "good enough"F for a lot of users. Perhaps the analogy would be for Compaq to sell anL updated Multia ( 500 MHz EV5, 100TX ethernet, 1280x1024x(16 or 24 bit) colorI  maybe ) at the same price point. Sure it's not going to be anywhere neart' as fast as an 833MHz EV68, but so what?h  B    Any way they could fit an Alpha in one of those IPaq boxes? :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:16:21 -0500c2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>' Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing-7 Message-ID: <200103022316_MC2-C778-E216@compuserve.com>r  % Message text written by "Phil Howell" D >We are still running vms on a number of servers, mainly because the systems>H are very stable and reliable, however the economics of market share is a, significant factor in the way we are moving.F The choice of vax/vms/decnet/lat here was made in the 80s on the basis: of superior networking technology over a wide-area network@ (remember "Digital has it now!") , that dec would also guarantee; uptime of 99.9% for vax/vms (about 8 hours a year downtime) ? and that there were enough application packages around that rank& on vms to give us a reasonable choice.> The situation in 2001 is that tcp/ip is everywhere, almost anyF system/application can stay up 99.9% of the time (if properly managed)9 and you can't buy any erp type systems developed for vms. C (ie. systems that are cluster-aware, use the lock manager properly,v and can do hot backups)p= We too developed systems the decset way, but there aren't any 5 GKS programmers down at the CES any more (there isn'to: even a CES) - we also had systems running on Rdb for about: 10 years before we knew what a database administrator was.@ It's only in the clustering area that decpaq has kept it's lead.; sorry, rant over, I must go - I have to buy parmesan cheese  Phil<a  D It's not true that there are no ERP systems for VMS.  My employer isH running VMS V7.2-1 on a pair of clustered ES40s with Oracle, Gembase andH Renaisance Classic; the latter two both from Ross Systems.  Both GembaseE and Renaisance Classic are supported by Ross and AFAIK are both under  development.  E So the Ross products may not meet *your* needs but they exist and are J usable.  I can't compare Gembase and Renaisance with any other 4GLs or ER= P J packages since they are the only ones I'm acquainted with.  We run a call=  G center with about 150 operators.  We book and  process 2800 orders on arH very good day.   I'd guess that with the ES40s we could double that in aH pinch if the rest of the infrastructure could handle it (I'm inclined to. doubt that we have enough seats, phones, etc.)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 20:08:26 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program, Message-ID: <97oujq$hpe@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  _ In article <97ojlq$87n$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:' >hA >Why does Compaq not just consider extending the current Hobbyistn@ >program or for corporate/political reasons coming up with a new? >name for a program with the same basic operating conditions asy >an Educational Program.  @ That's basically what the new education program is.  Except theyC wrote a license agreement that makes it unusable for any real work.v   >lB >It seems to me that the hobbyist program has pretty much all thatC >would be needed in an educational program except the permission toe >use it for one.  E Somehow or other they got it stuck in their heads that people need or K want to use VMS for teaching in academia and went from there.  But I don't aL think they ever really intended to do anything useful - they just wanted to I make it seem they were.  Either that or they're just incompetent, becausey% what they came up with is ridiculous.i   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech o   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 17:27:53 -0500o9 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)e" Subject: Re: OpenVMS opportunities3 Message-ID: <9UNzV9mrS$r0@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  z In article <LgK66.389$mU.13020@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Andy Bustamante" <A_C_Bustamante@earthlink.net> writes:B > Think of the bad publicity.  How about a simple contest instead: > I > Orbital habitat, life support controlled by an off the shelf commericals	 > system,oL > an NT/W2K system, a Sun system, and VMS system.  Last man "standing" wins.K > Andrew are willing to man the Sun platform?  We'd probably have to have av > lottery for the VMS platform.>  K There's already been a VMS system in LEO. It was part of the payload pallet>L back around 1991 +/-. THey even uploaded some corrections to the applicationL code, recompiled, and reexecuted the fix, making it the first software patchL actually made in space. I remember there being some internal publicity about* this back then when I was still a Digit...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:43:28 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com 2 Subject: OT/Humour: Essential reading for managersD Message-ID: <OF032788EF.A17887D3-ON88256A03.007CD493@foundation.com>  , I can't believe someone actually wrote this:  - http://www.tuplay.com/display.asp?s=s&i=4&p=1.   Shanea   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:39:10 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)t6 Subject: Re: OT/Humour: Essential reading for managers0 Message-ID: <009F86D0.89014765@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <OF032788EF.A17887D3-ON88256A03.007CD493@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:- >I can't believe someone actually wrote this:s > . >http://www.tuplay.com/display.asp?s=s&i=4&p=1 >h >Shane >s  ? ...can't believe someone actually wrote Minesweeper or Windows?t  J There are many similarities.  The only difference: one is not an operating0 system and the other is a frivolous time waster.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:35:56 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>= Subject: Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI filer6 Message-ID: <1010302152741.35683B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Didier Morandi wrote:.   > h_ling wrote:- > ../..-: > > Then I changed the file attribute by using the command
 > > $set file I > > DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI/attr=(rfm:fix,lrl:8192,mrs:8192)p >  > Why didn't you do this?: >  e? > NOTE:  An OpenVMS saveset or PCSI installation file is stored 6 > on the Internet in a self-expanding compressed file. > ../..                        t> > For PCSI files, once the PCSI file is copied to your system,> > rename the PCSI file to kitname-dcx_axpexe.pcsi, then it canC > be expanded by typing RUN kitname-dcx_axpexe.pcsi.  The resultanttF > file will be the PCSI installation file which can be used to install
 > the ECO. >  > D.  A When you downloaded the file, you should have got something namede? long-pcsi-kit-file-name.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE.  You must have renamed @ it to *.PCSI.  This is incorrect.  The file is a self-extractingA compressed executable, and you need to run it.  This will producehD the .PCSI file.  There is no need to rename the file to *.EXE first.  5 $ run DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE   > (Since you seem to have already renamed it to .PCSI, trying to= run that may produce a conflicting file name that might causee= a problem, so I would rename it back before running it.  I amd? pretty sure that "run" doesn't care much about file attributes,p> so you can probably leave them alone, but it should be a fixed) length, 512-byte record sequential file.)   > The ECO kits are designed so you don't need to muck about with< file names or attributes.  Just download in binary mode, run (to decompress), and install.T   -- A John Santosn Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:21:33 -0600e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>*= Subject: Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file*- Message-ID: <3AA0633D.F20AA3AF@earthlink.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > O > a more useful answer: The readme file gives an incorrect name for the rename, ' > as it would generate a >39 char name.s > 4 > GD2079> ren DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI -: > _GD2079> DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4-dcx_axpexe.PCSI" > %RENAME-E-OPENOUT, error openingP > SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4-DCX_AXPEXE.PCSI; as output' > -RMS-E-ENT, ACP enter function failedy- > -SYSTEM-W-BADFILENAME, bad file name syntaxr   Here's the correct syntax:  , $ ren DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI -3 ren DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.pcsi-DCX_AXPEXE-  = That is, he wanted you to change the extension, not the name.1   -- 1 David J. Dachterax dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/9  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:47:53 GMT16 From: "Andy Bustamante" <A_C_Bustamante@earthlink.net>) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...6D Message-ID: <ZFTn6.8483$7Y1.904918@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  F No one has commented that VMS Engineering corrects problems, generallyG pretty quickly for the severe issues.  Some vendors have to be publicly J embarrassed into even admitting there are issues with their latest serviceF packs/releases.    CERT and BugTraq publicize problems, but are also a6 reaction to lack of responsiveness from other vendors.  L Since the VMS ECO mailing list is functional again it's even easier to trackI fixes.  Compaq can't be accused of trying to hide o/s problems, they even-? take reports from customers without support contracts in place.-     -- Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s to reply - <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in message0B news:OFBC198536.5FF8C755-ON80256A02.007444BB@qedi.quintiles.com... >( > J > But hang on, it is (as you say) their right.  If they want to keep quiet > then that's up to them.  > D > Personally I'm kinda glad.  Non-priv'ed system crashers and severe securityJ > stuff gets notified to customers.  Patches are posted to the website andE > also to the ITS database which is available to contract maintenance D > customers.  I'd prefer to get the fixes this way without all of myK > (potential ab)users finding out and crashing/corrupting my systems first.6 >zC > Sun may think of things differently, as is again their privilege.a >o >   > Sunny Andrew commented/quoted: > >>>rL > > > |>   I have asked for additional details around this problem, and have > takenl2 > > > |>   the report and the discussion off-line. > > > |>K > > > |>   And please...  *** DO NOT POST SECURITY HOLES OR SYSTEM CRASHERS  > ***. > > >MJ > > > And this is the main reason why there is this perception that VMS is6 > > > totally secure while the various Unixes are not. > >/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:36:59 GMTT8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)! Subject: Re: PROD Utility Failure/4 Message-ID: <vDSn6.5$g6.212@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>  Y In article <3A9FDFF5.474399F3@vmmc.org>, Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> writes:r ..+ >$       DIR/DATE/SIZE   SYS$SYSTEM:*.PCSI*e" >%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found3 >$       DIR/DATE/SIZE   SYS$COMMON:[000000]*.PCSI*S >( >Directory SYS$COMMON:[000000] >e0 >DEC-AXPVMS-OPENVMS-V0702-1-5.PCSI$DESCRIPTION;16 >                           4  29-JUN-1999 14:55:42.41( >DEC-AXPVMS-OPENVMS-V0702-1-5.PCSI$TLB;16 >                          35  29-JUN-1999 14:55:42.22, >DEC-AXPVMS-VMS-V0702-1-2.PCSI$DESCRIPTION;16 >                         476  29-JUN-1999 14:56:23.22$ >DEC-AXPVMS-VMS-V0702-1-2.PCSI$TLB;16 >                          57  29-JUN-1999 14:56:09.79 >  >Total of 4 files, 572 blocks.5 >$       PROD REG PROD VMS/SOURCE=SYS$COMMON:[000000]2 >.) >The following product has been selected: < >    DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1                  Operating System >  >Do you want to continue? [YES]i >t* >The following product will be registered:I >    DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1                  DISK$OVMSV7P2D1:[VMS$COMMON.]S >tN >Portion done: 0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%...100% >e+ >The following product has been registered:n< >    DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1                  Operating System >$       PROD SHOW PRODM >e= >----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ 6 >PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE= >----------------------------------- ----------- ------------SQ >%PCSI-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]PCSI$ROOT.PCSI$DATABASE;1 as in  >put >-RMS-E-FNF, file not found # >%PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedrN >%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition9 >_JXT1::SPGJXT>$       DIR/DATE/SIZE   SYS$SYSTEM:*.PCSI*h" >%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found  9 Thanks for posting this.  There are no apparent problems. I I will call this to the attention of the POLYCENTER Software Installation  (PCSI) utility developers.  F One thing -- do you by any change have two disks mounted with the sameH label?   Like a copy of OVMSV7P2D1?  The PCSI utility tends to referneceF disks by the DISK$<label> (DISK$OVMSV7P2D1 in this case) logical name.C I have caused myself great confusion by doing this unintentionally!T   --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAbH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 20:53:28 +0100i* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: Re: PROD Utility Failuref* Message-ID: <3a9ffa38$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  Y In article <3A9FDFF5.474399F3@vmmc.org>, Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> writes:-* >The following product will be registered:I >    DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1                  DISK$OVMSV7P2D1:[VMS$COMMON.]:  / Is OVMSV7P2D1 really your system disk's label ?e   Is your disk structure ok ?0# What does a SHOW DEVICE/FILE show ?   # Process name      PID     File namee7                 00000000  [VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR]SYS.EXE;1c  $ Is is VMS$COMMON or SYSx.SYSCOMMON ?   If the latter, fix it (IIRC) byr4 $ RENAME SYS$SYSDEVICE:[0,0]VMS$COMMON.DIR SYSCOMMON4 $ RENAME SYS$SYSDEVICE:[0,0]SYSCOMMON.DIR VMS$COMMON   -- i< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888.< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:06:23 GMTU8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)! Subject: Re: PROD Utility Failuren4 Message-ID: <33Tn6.8$g6.152@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>  = In article <vDSn6.5$g6.212@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, I wrote:a ..G >One thing -- do you by any change have two disks mounted with the sameeI >label?   Like a copy of OVMSV7P2D1?  The PCSI utility tends to refernece G >disks by the DISK$<label> (DISK$OVMSV7P2D1 in this case) logical name. D >I have caused myself great confusion by doing this unintentionally!  : On of the PCSI utility developers looked at this and said:  A     "Yes, it looks very much like there is a private disk mounted.-      with the same label as the system disk."o  G I'm guessing that what might be happening is that the PRODUCT REGISTER aF is using the DISK$ logical and writing the PCSI$DATABASE files on the G private disk.  Then the PRODUCT SHOW looks on the system disk and finds  no database.   -- eK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAsH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:57:19 -08001 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospam> $ Subject: Satellite MV2000 won't boot2 Message-ID: <97oqfd$lpm$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  / I have an old MicroVax 2000 that I fire up fromr. time to time to do some 'old version' testing.. I usually boot it's own internal disk and that* works fine.  Today I tried to boot it as a2 satellite in a cluster, which has always succeeded2 until today. I typically do a satellite boot about0 once a year.  Today it failed with the following error message:       %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765      %VMS-I-STS, R5 = 00000056s       ?06 HLT INST         PC = 00000E64v  3 It's been several years since I've done any cluster 1 management and the docs are not readily availablel. (other than on the web).  The TEST commands on. the MV2000 show everything is working ok.  The. boot node is running VMS 6.1. (I know it's old4 but as a developer, I have my reasons.)  I've looked1 at the SYSGEN parameters, /SCS and /CLU, and theyn look ok.  , Can someone point my in the right direction?   Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 20:29:29 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: Satellite MV2000 won't boot( Message-ID: <97oseo$3b6$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  F A wild guess: the ethernet switch on the back is in the wrong position  (so it uses AUI instead of BNC)?   Hans  & Randy Park heeft geschreven in bericht) <97oqfd$lpm$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>...f0 >I have an old MicroVax 2000 that I fire up from/ >time to time to do some 'old version' testing.r/ >I usually boot it's own internal disk and thatv+ >works fine.  Today I tried to boot it as a 3 >satellite in a cluster, which has always succeededm3 >until today. I typically do a satellite boot abouta1 >once a year.  Today it failed with the followinga >error message:h >a >    %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765 >    %VMS-I-STS, R5 = 00000056 >s >    ?06 HLT INST  >        PC = 00000E64 >e4 >It's been several years since I've done any cluster2 >management and the docs are not readily available/ >(other than on the web).  The TEST commands on4/ >the MV2000 show everything is working ok.  Theo/ >boot node is running VMS 6.1. (I know it's oldr5 >but as a developer, I have my reasons.)  I've lookedr2 >at the SYSGEN parameters, /SCS and /CLU, and they	 >look ok.o > - >Can someone point my in the right direction?a >u >Thanks in advance.  >m >c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:09:02 -08001 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospam> ( Subject: Re: Satellite MV2000 won't boot2 Message-ID: <97p5ha$74s$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>  - I can boot the local disk and SET HOST to then+ node I want to boot from, so the networkingl$ hardware appears to be working fine.  + Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messaged" news:97oseo$3b6$1@news.IAEhv.nl...H > A wild guess: the ethernet switch on the back is in the wrong position" > (so it uses AUI instead of BNC)? >n > Hans >s( > Randy Park heeft geschreven in bericht+ > <97oqfd$lpm$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>...E2 > >I have an old MicroVax 2000 that I fire up from1 > >time to time to do some 'old version' testing. 1 > >I usually boot it's own internal disk and that - > >works fine.  Today I tried to boot it as ap5 > >satellite in a cluster, which has always succeededh5 > >until today. I typically do a satellite boot about 3 > >once a year.  Today it failed with the followingr > >error message:n > >   > >    %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765  > >    %VMS-I-STS, R5 = 00000056 > >t > >    ?06 HLT INST  > >        PC = 00000E64 > >u6 > >It's been several years since I've done any cluster4 > >management and the docs are not readily available1 > >(other than on the web).  The TEST commands on,1 > >the MV2000 show everything is working ok.  The-1 > >boot node is running VMS 6.1. (I know it's oldm7 > >but as a developer, I have my reasons.)  I've lookedu4 > >at the SYSGEN parameters, /SCS and /CLU, and they > >look ok.e > >a/ > >Can someone point my in the right direction?w > >1 > >Thanks in advance.> > >d > >t >n >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:27:36 GMTw$ From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Storage and MTBF = Message-ID: <sEYn6.25363$_d5.2333847@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>/  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  I > I was just wondering about these new storage hardware like EMC, Sharks,r > etc... > I > I have a StorageWorks here with 90 GB of disks - of course it is an olds > hardware (> 3 years)5 > with 4 GB disks performing RAID-5 (volumes of 8GB).  > D > I never had a problem with the RAID itself or with disks failures. > L > I dont know if I am lucky or the quality of the disks (MTBF) is improving. > J > So, why buy an expensive storage, which needs 4 guys plus the support em	 > EMC-USA  > to put  these disks to work ?   L I've got responsibilities for our Storageworks disk subsystem on VMS (about I 1.5TB on HSJ-50 controllers and host-based shadowed across data centers) 8@ and our EMC Symmetrix subsystem (10TB).  The VMS cluster is NOT  connected to the Symmetrix.p  H The key features of the EMC Symmetrix are far beyond the quality of the K disks.  After all, EMC basically uses the same physical drives that Compaq .B uses in the StorageWorks array (50GB Seagate drives in our Symm.).  H I'm not going into an EMC vs Storageworks but suffice it say they don't  really compete.3  J For my VMS cluster, Storageworks works VERY well - it's reliable, easy to K maintain, and easy to expand (and affordable :-)).  I have no intention of uJ connection our VMS storage to the Symmetrix.  However, I'm satisfied with G the functionality that the Symmetrix gives us on other platforms (W2k,  ) Solaris, and Irix are all connected now).g  E > I believe the next wave for storage, and SANs (I believe still much 
 > complex)K > is to develop easy interfaces for management. The dissolve the complexity F > and to re-think the needs of putting all the company in one "box"... > J > It would be 99,999%   safe and fault tolerant, but if it fails, with all > then@ > servers of my company conected,  all my business go down ! ! !  K 99.999% isn't good enough.  Have we lost data with Storageworks through no FL fault of our own?  Yes, and I'm still pissed.  Have we lost data with EMC?  F Not yet (and hopefully never).  If I lose my VMS cluster, my employer J suffers severe financial loss.  Depending on the length of the outage, we K may not survive. That said, my last cluster outage was almost 2 years ago, aG and that one was scheduled.  In my VMS cluster career spanning over 10 lL years (another 8 or 9 years before that I didn't have clusters to work on), ' I've had 2 unscheduled cluster outages.   K I have a high level of confidence in Storageworks for my VMS environment.  mG I have a high level of confidence in EMC for my other environments.  I fG wouldn't replace either one, nor would I swap one for the other in our a1 environment.  They both work, and work very well.            .../Ed   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:37:33 -0500r: From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com> Subject: RE: Storage and MTBFwK Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBE96@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>i   > -----Original Message------ > From: Ed Wilts [mailto:ewilts@mediaone.net]e& > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:28 PM > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.come > Subject: Re: Storage and MTBFh >  > , > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > ? > > I was just wondering about these new storage hardware like l > EMC, Sharks,
 > > etc... > > ? > > I have a StorageWorks here with 90 GB of disks - of course c > it is an old > > hardware (> 3 years)7 > > with 4 GB disks performing RAID-5 (volumes of 8GB).s > > F > > I never had a problem with the RAID itself or with disks failures. > > : > > I dont know if I am lucky or the quality of the disks  > (MTBF) is improving. > > > > > So, why buy an expensive storage, which needs 4 guys plus  > the support em > > EMC-USAo! > > to put  these disks to work ?P > @ > I've got responsibilities for our Storageworks disk subsystem  > on VMS (about = > 1.5TB on HSJ-50 controllers and host-based shadowed across   > data centers) B > and our EMC Symmetrix subsystem (10TB).  The VMS cluster is NOT  > connected to the Symmetrix.  > ; > The key features of the EMC Symmetrix are far beyond the 7 > quality of the x: > disks.  After all, EMC basically uses the same physical  > drives that Compaq VD > uses in the StorageWorks array (50GB Seagate drives in our Symm.). > ? > I'm not going into an EMC vs Storageworks but suffice it say  
 > they don't e > really compete.  > : > For my VMS cluster, Storageworks works VERY well - it's  > reliable, easy to @ > maintain, and easy to expand (and affordable :-)).  I have no  > intention of a= > connection our VMS storage to the Symmetrix.  However, I'm n > satisfied with  9 > the functionality that the Symmetrix gives us on other / > platforms (W2k, + > Solaris, and Irix are all connected now).i > G > > I believe the next wave for storage, and SANs (I believe still muchf > > complex)? > > is to develop easy interfaces for management. The dissolve   > the complexityH > > and to re-think the needs of putting all the company in one "box"... > > = > > It would be 99,999%   safe and fault tolerant, but if it @ > fails, with allj > > thePB > > servers of my company conected,  all my business go down ! ! ! > 5 > 99.999% isn't good enough.  Have we lost data with   > Storageworks through no > > fault of our own?  Yes, and I'm still pissed.  Have we lost  > data with EMC?  H > Not yet (and hopefully never).  If I lose my VMS cluster, my employer = > suffers severe financial loss.  Depending on the length of s > the outage, we e@ > may not survive. That said, my last cluster outage was almost  > 2 years ago, i8 > and that one was scheduled.  In my VMS cluster career  > spanning over 10 e8 > years (another 8 or 9 years before that I didn't have  > clusters to work on), ) > I've had 2 unscheduled cluster outages.s > ? > I have a high level of confidence in Storageworks for my VMS > > environment.  8 > I have a high level of confidence in EMC for my other  > environments.  I  < > wouldn't replace either one, nor would I swap one for the  > other in our n3 > environment.  They both work, and work very well.. >  >         .../Ed >h  K I wish my experience with EMC Symmetrix was more positive.  Several system eA managers at my end and myself are probably as pissed as you are,  F except at EMC over lost Symmetrix data.  These would be NT and Novell D system admins, and I predominately an OpenVMS admin.  OpenVMS is offC of EMC Symmetrix onto faster and cheaper StorageWorks.  The NT and n@ Novell are in the mist of moving off.  Our Solaris will stay on E Symmetrix, since they have been relatively happy, and someone has to n use our very expensive "asset".l  F I guess your mileage will vary depending on the EMC support personnel @ who services your site.  I am glad the Symmetrix at your end has been good to you.    :) jck
 John Koska JKoska@bender.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:46:35 GMTi$ From: bill@freesurf.ch (Stefan Bill)  Subject: Re: Umbrella in Germany/ Message-ID: <3a9ff899.12814586@News.CIS.DFN.DE>c  B On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:59:11 +0100, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> wrote:  C >I got my OpenVMS umbrella yesterday (Thursday, 1-Mar-2001) -- sentF >from Zurich (Sitzerland) too.  ; From Zrich? I live in Zrich. Where can I get my umbrella?S  = >Many thanks to Sue Skonetski and the OpenVMS promotion team!R  < Promotion Team?  Never heard. Please send an umbrella to me.   Stefan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:09:27 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>D  Subject: Re: Umbrella in Germany) Message-ID: <3AA00C07.655FDEF@virgin.net>-   Stefan Bill wrote:  D > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:59:11 +0100, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> > wrote:? > >Many thanks to Sue Skonetski and the OpenVMS promotion team!  > > > Promotion Team?  Never heard. Please send an umbrella to me. >b  C It's top secret. Compaq promote VMS on a need-to-know basis. To pute7 yourself or your CIO/IT Director on the list just emailMB susan.skonetski@compaq.com with postal contact details. You'll getD flashing bouncy balls (we've already done all the jokes), umbrellas,G postcards and enough posters to wallpaper your house. Your CIO/DirectorPC (if he survives the shock of seeing VMS promo stuff) will then stop.F referring to VMS as 'legacy' and immediately authorize buying spanking* new Alphaservers. Hey, it worked for me :)  D More importantly the entire office can stage Jedi Knight fights with+ the never ending supply of cardboard tubes.  --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Mar 2001 23:50:47 +0100-* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)  Subject: Re: Umbrella in Germany* Message-ID: <3aa023c7$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  Q In article <3AA00C07.655FDEF@virgin.net>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:t >Stefan Bill wrote:r >eE >> On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:59:11 +0100, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>C	 >> wrote:E@ >> >Many thanks to Sue Skonetski and the OpenVMS promotion team! >>? >> Promotion Team?  Never heard. Please send an umbrella to me.L >N= >It's top secret. Compaq promote VMS on a need-to-know basis.h   Nail on the head...a  D >                                                             To put8 >yourself or your CIO/IT Director on the list just emailC >susan.skonetski@compaq.com with postal contact details. You'll geteE >flashing bouncy balls (we've already done all the jokes), umbrellas,hH >postcards and enough posters to wallpaper your house. Your CIO/DirectorD >(if he survives the shock of seeing VMS promo stuff) will then stopG >referring to VMS as 'legacy' and immediately authorize buying spanking'+ >new Alphaservers. Hey, it worked for me :)    Unfortunately not here. < Here the company (DEC and COMPAQ) is out of the game at all. Maybe for the next decade, too.9G Sigh, I desperately need OpenVMS and new AlphaServers, but no chance...c  E >More importantly the entire office can stage Jedi Knight fights withl, >the never ending supply of cardboard tubes.   Bingo.   -- I< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:01:23 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes6 Message-ID: <1010302154817.35683C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  + Compaq OpenVMS support is telling my to user. backup/noincremental, which begs the question.  A Directory revision dates are used for more than just backups, and B should be meaningful, not meaningless.  (If someone really changedD the directory's attributes for some reason, it provides a hint about when and why.)  E Also, the command files in question also run on VMS V7.1, which would32 of course break if I added /noincremental to them.  4 On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:   >  >  > John,yM > This "feature" - I'm not sure whether it's a bug or not - exists in 7.1-1H2fM > (on Alpha of course).  I have a directory that has exhibited this behaviour(G > since the systems were first installed.  Since I don't do incremental K > backups and rarely need to do any /SINCE/MODIFIED actions I live with the  > situation. >  > Steve. > * > John Santos (john at egh dot com) wrote:D > >>>I have discovered that in VMS (7.2-1 on Alpha, 7.2 on VAX), theF > modification date on a directory file changes whenever the directoryC > is extended or truncated by creating or deleting files in it.  NohD > explicit change to the directory, just create or delete some files > in it. > : > Since the point when VMS decides to extend or truncate aE > directory seems completely random to a user (who is not supposed tonD > be aware of the undocumented internals of directory formats), this3 > behaviour is completely random and unpredictable.- > A > Of course, if the directory in question is [000000] and someonenD > creates a new top-level directory that extends [000000]000000.dir,> > this will trigger the notorious "How come all of a sudden myE > incremental backups suddenly are backing up EVERY file on my disk?"mD > "feature".  (Ironically, the command to fix incremantal backups is > backup/noincremental.)<<<d >  >  >    -- a John Santosc Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:13:38 GMTe$ From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net>@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes= Message-ID: <mrYn6.25360$_d5.2329453@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>c   John Santos wrote:  A > I have discovered that in VMS (7.2-1 on Alpha, 7.2 on VAX), thenF > modification date on a directory file changes whenever the directoryC > is extended or truncated by creating or deleting files in it.  NovD > explicit change to the directory, just create or delete some files > in it.  I It's worse than this.  I've got frequent directory modifications even if nG the directory file size is not changing, and this is on AXP V7.1-2.  I  J reported this here, and to sum up the response I got from Hoff, "life's a J bitch and then you die, and not only that, but the problem will get worse K with the new government work that's being done".  That's obviously a gross tJ simplification of what he said, but it sums it up pretty well (and you're K welcome to correct me Hoff - I know you're watching :-)).  It's not a bug, r and it won't be fixed.  L The solution is to use /noincremental. For those of you using Tapesys, it's J time to get the patch released this week, since /noincremental before the G patch was ignored (I knocked multiple hours off my backup times when I u2 applied the Tapesys patch for the bug I reported).           .../Ed   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 00:49:42 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes5 Message-ID: <1010303004224.3369A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   # On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, Ed Wilts wrote:m   > John Santos wrote: > C > > I have discovered that in VMS (7.2-1 on Alpha, 7.2 on VAX), thewH > > modification date on a directory file changes whenever the directoryE > > is extended or truncated by creating or deleting files in it.  NooF > > explicit change to the directory, just create or delete some files
 > > in it. > K > It's worse than this.  I've got frequent directory modifications even if <I > the directory file size is not changing, and this is on AXP V7.1-2.  I eL > reported this here, and to sum up the response I got from Hoff, "life's a L > bitch and then you die, and not only that, but the problem will get worse M > with the new government work that's being done".  That's obviously a gross sL > simplification of what he said, but it sums it up pretty well (and you're M > welcome to correct me Hoff - I know you're watching :-)).  It's not a bug,   > and it won't be fixed. > N > The solution is to use /noincremental. For those of you using Tapesys, it's L > time to get the patch released this week, since /noincremental before the I > patch was ignored (I knocked multiple hours off my backup times when I a4 > applied the Tapesys patch for the bug I reported). >  >         .../Ed  J Okay, so then the modify date on .dir files is now absolutely meaningless?I How about throwing it away then, and save the overhead of maintaining it?M   ------- % 2 years later (post VMS V7.4 release)0  F Ooh!  Ooh!  I have an idea!  Since there is now a vacant 64-byte field< in the file header of a .dir file, how about using it for a F "user-modification date"?  This date would get updated whenever a userG modifies a .dir file (rename, change protection code or ACL or owner or C max versions, etc.) but not when the executive (F11BXQP) creates oreG deletes files in the directory or expands or compresses it.  This wouldn be a *useful* date.l   -- e John Santosn Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:03:29 GMT-2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: VMS?  (was: Re: (no subject))3 Message-ID: <5FVn6.2$qc.93@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>t  C In article <f6.7cb4909.27d174e4@aol.com>, RASTA2020@aol.com writes: - :is VMS an operating system for main frames??e  E   Yes.  And workstations.  Clusters of 96 nodes of 32 CPUs each, too.w  7   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for details, history, etc.   :   Please do not confuse Compaq OpenVMS (VMS) with IBM MVS.  ?   Please also remember that a one-line question will invariablyf<   not get you the answer you sought -- there is insufficient>   context.  Terms such as "mainframe" are also nebulous system   classifications, at best.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:59:19 -0600.7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>t$ Subject: Re: [info] PCSI restriction, Message-ID: <3AA05E07.A7ABC0E@earthlink.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > i > In article <3A9F1A31.2EE5BE30@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  > F > > If you find it does work, however, "jacketing" the PRODUCT INSTALLI > > command in, say, an INSTALL.COM procedure (shades of DOS INSTALL.BAT,iE > > .BATMAN!) would allow for target disk selection prior to actuallygD > > executing the installation, and PCSI should correctly record the. > > destination device/directory of each file. > ; > But "jacketing" does destroy the great benefit of PCSI --a  7 I wasn't aware that PCSI *HAD* any "great benefits" ;-)    > being ableE > to install lots of products from multiple vendors at the same time.b   Does anyone really do that?r  C I can't imagine a circumstance under which I would recommend tryingd that.m  E Closest I ever came was putting in a batch of Multinet patches in one 7 VMSINSTAL invocation, but that was all from one vendor.n  E I'm sure there are circumstances where "install(ing) lots of productsyA from multiple vendors at the same time" might not be appropriate.n+ Perhaps Didier's case might be one of them.o   -- w David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:27:35 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>l3 Subject: Re: [INFO] wrong answer in Mgmt agents FAQ-- Message-ID: <3AA064A7.85FB2F8B@earthlink.net>m   Didier Morandi wrote:C >  > The text in page:oK > www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/mgmt_agents/user_man.html#troubleB > 6 > gives an incorrect answer to the following question: >  > [start of quote] > Q:= > I am getting a PCSI error part-way through my installation:M > 9 > The following product will be installed to destination:hE > COMPAQ AXPVMS V72_MGMTAGENTS V2.0-16 DISK$ALPHASYS-72:[VMS$COMMON.]u* > Portion done: 0%...10%...20%...30%...40%  > %PCSI-E-READERR, error readingI > $6$DKA300:[SYS0.][SYSUPD]COMPAQ-AXPVMS-V72_MGMTAGENTS-V0200-16-1.PCSI;1 % > -DDIS-E-TNF, invalid element syntax)$ > %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failedF > Terminating is strongly recommended. Do you want to terminate? [YES]; > %PCSI-E-CANCEL_WIP, termination resulted in an incompletek > modification to the system1 > %PCSI-E-S_OPCAN, operation cancelled by requesteE > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable errorS > conditiont >  > A:H > You probably have a corrupt kit. The PCSI kit must be in fixed-length,N > 8192-byte CR format. Please verify the file attributes and copy a new kit to > your target machine. > [end of quote] >  > To me, the correct answer is:V > ? > NOTE:  An OpenVMS saveset or PCSI installation file is storedt6 > on the Internet in a self-expanding compressed file. > : > For OpenVMS savesets, the name of the compressed saveset7 > file will be kit_name.a-dcx_vaxexe for OpenVMS VAX ors; > kit_name.a-dcx_axpexe for OpenVMS Alpha. Once the OpenVMSn9 > saveset is copied to your system, expand the compresseddA > saveset by typing RUN kitname.dcx_vaxexe or kitname.dcx_alpexe.w > > > For PCSI files, once the PCSI file is copied to your system,> > rename the PCSI file to kitname-dcx_axpexe.pcsi, then it canC > be expanded by typing RUN kitname-dcx_axpexe.pcsi.  The resultantfF > file will be the PCSI installation file which can be used to install
 > the ECO.  ) Here again, the correct syntax would be:    > > rename the PCSI file to kitname.pcsi-dcx_axpexe, then it can5 > be expanded by typing RUN kitname.pcsi-dcx_axpexe. y  ? Note that both Netscape and IE will truncate the extension fromnH .PCSI-DCX_%%%EXE to just .PCSI. Don't know if it's a browser bug or YAWB (Yet Another Windows Bug).   -- f David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 01:02:21 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>3 Subject: Re: [INFO] wrong answer in Mgmt agents FAQS5 Message-ID: <1010303005729.3369B-100000@Ives.egh.com>r  , On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, David J. Dachtera wrote: [...]   @ > > rename the PCSI file to kitname.pcsi-dcx_axpexe, then it can7 > > be expanded by typing RUN kitname.pcsi-dcx_axpexe.   > A > Note that both Netscape and IE will truncate the extension fromeJ > .PCSI-DCX_%%%EXE to just .PCSI. Don't know if it's a browser bug or YAWB > (Yet Another Windows Bug).  G Certainly sounds like a bug to me.  Netscape 4.73 on DEC Unix 4.0d does D not truncate the extension.  I haven't tried either Netscape 3.03 or the new Mozilla beta on VMS.   -- m John Santosb Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.123 ************************