1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 04 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 125       Contents:% Affordable OpenVMS - March News Flash = Re: Alpha: game over.  Was Future outlook for OpenVMS admins? ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later 4 Re: How to licence boot strapping a hobbyist system? Re: Janitor fixes 90L  Re: Janitor fixes 90L  Re: Just Two Days Left to Vote1 Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete  Re: Low cost workstations & TURBOchannel frame buffer test results* Re: TURBOchannel frame buffer test results Re: VMS apps wishlist   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:21:55 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> . Subject: Affordable OpenVMS - March News Flash- Message-ID: <3AA1B4D3.45DE47FD@earthlink.net>   E I posted the following to the Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page 6 and Message Board (http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/)...   We're getting closer !!!  4 Visit this URL: http://www.islandco.com/specials.htm  H Island Computers is listing on this page some PWS 500au and 600au modelsE with an OpenVMS base license (commercial, not hobbyist) for only $700 F more than the price of the machine alone. The result is still rather aB mighty stretch for the average working person, especially since noH development licenses are included. All the same, what remains of the CSAF (nee ASAP) program may prove useful to those who would develop or port software for/to OpenVMS.  E This is the biggest "step in the right direction" that I have seen to F date. If you are aware of others, please post a note here about it, orF post to comp.os.vms and I'll post it here under my own name citing the< original author as the source (so as not to mislead anyone).   Keep the Faith!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2001 20:52:00 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)F Subject: Re: Alpha: game over.  Was Future outlook for OpenVMS admins?, Message-ID: <97rlhg$16k@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  N In article <VA.000002d6.9eaea7d5@sture.ch>, Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> writes:N >In article <6IUn6.2230$TL4.867333@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Terry C. Shannon 8 >> > Just to put the OpenVMS DS10 pricing in perspective6 >> > you can get a SunBlade 100 with Solaris 8 for 995
 >> > dollars.  >>  J >> Not quite apples to apples, but it *is* 500MHz system to 500MHz system. > N >Definitely not apples to apples. I haven't looked at the specs myself, but a M >colleague who has, tells me that the guts are cheap - IDE disks, slow SCSI,  L >small cache, probably little room to upgrade etc. The processor is a Sparc D >IIe, which has him wondering what the "e" means in practical terms. > N >Didn't I read here that VMS runs like a dog on IDE disks? Dunno about Tru64, K >but that could be a real showstopper in terms of Compaq producing a rival   >system.  H VMS runs like a dog on IDE for the same reason, in spades, it runs that I way on SCSI - no file caching.  On a Unix or WNT system with file caching I you often can't tell if you're running SCSI or IDE because the data never G hits the disk in either case.  You might feel the difference on program J startup if the program was no longer in file cache, or you were writing a J huge file.   The primary design limitation on a SunBlade 100 that I see isC that it's only 32 bit PCI, which means that if you do add SCSI (for G instance, the Antares U2W controller) you may be limited by the PCI bus I bandwidth.  I've not seen a stream benchmark on the box yet so cannot say J how well it access it's up to 2Gb in RAM.  So there could be problems withI memory speed too.  And it may be that the IIe chip has less cache than a   regular II.   K But so what to all of these concerns?  Think of it as the Celeron/entry box K of the Unix world - more than fast enough for 90% of what needs to be done. I And an outstanding bargain compared to anything Compaq offers - including  a Linux DS10.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 01:29:21 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later, Message-ID: <3AA1E0AF.E1F3416F@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote: I > BUT. I had to fit an ever increasing workload into a finite system, and J > that taught me how to accomplish dramatic performance improvements using > the HLL tools available.  M A programming language is a tool that allows you to translate your ideas into  machine language.   I And each mind finds different ways to solve a problem. And some tools are H better suited to solve problems a certain way while others are better at solving it a different way.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 01:42:43 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: How to licence boot strapping a hobbyist system? , Message-ID: <3AA1E3D0.D75B4B54@videotron.ca>   Christof Brass wrote: J which I had received from the hobbyist site. Rebooting brought up the wellJ known X11 login prompt. I entered username/password and received a message1 from the LFM complaining about a missing licence.   M You will need to install the DW-MOTIF license and then set WINDOW_SYSTEM back  to 1   B/1  SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"  SYSBOOT> CONTINUE   P You can then intall the DW-MOTIF licence. (and reset STARTUP_P1 to empty string)      U > Basically what is the intended/best procedure to put in all the hobbyist licences?    . For DECNET, you also need DVNETEND licence :-)  L Once you get DECWINDOWS UP, you can then open multiple DECTERM windows. OnceL can be used to SET HOST/DTE over a serial line to the host that has all yourN licences, at while point you can cut/paste from one decterm window to another.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 15:38:34 -0500 * From: Eric Ebinger <eebinger@telocity.com> Subject: Re: Janitor fixes 90L8 Message-ID: <010601c0a421$ed56d220$e900a8c0@teamrdb.com>  G Back in a prior life I worked for National Semiconductor and was told a H couple of stories as part of orientation.  Some of the stories (the grimL tale of the ladies who painted the glow-in-the-dark paint on the watch facesJ and the mystery of the seat of the paints burns) aren't really appropriate but...  J Turns out that for one type of chip they had rather severe yield problems. MostL of the time they had a predictable yield rate but periodically it would dropJ significantly - to 0%.  This was a serious problem and a lot of effort was spent H trying to determine what was going wrong with the process.  Finally someJ desperate soul plotted the yield versus workers versus time and discovered thatI there was an obscenely high correlation between a specific individual and J the yield problems...but only on a 28 day cycle.  This was described as an "awkward situation".  G It was resolved by quietly reassigning the individual so that for three 	 weeks she D worked in the clean room and one week she worked outside.  The yield problems went away.   : They also told a story about yield problems and perfume...  D Chip fabrication (at least at the time) is/was an art not a science.   Eric ebinger ----- Original Message -----# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>  To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> ' Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 10:56 AM  Subject: Re: Janitor fixes 90L    ! > Okay, here's my 2cents worth...  > ( > We had this really nice DEC engineer.. > I > He used to work for the Washington Star newspaper, they had a PDD-11 of : some type running there with to us today an amazing number1 > of users on a amazing small amount of memory...  >  > Ok.. > L > One day, a young girl that he swore was no older than 14 showed up, wanted3 to work, and was going to beat out the Woodward and ? > Bernstein pair.. since she really was of age, she signed up..  > F > The DEC system started dying regularly, and DEC to make a long story< short, was getting ready to replace the entire installation,  > cpu, cables, terminals, etc... > L > My friend was ambling around, thinking on his feet.. Saw this lady wearing6 a wool suit. Somehow, he thought to ask her if she was > wearing silk lingerie..  > G > She SCREAMS... slaps him silly, and runs in to the ladies room.  He's < rubbing his face, and sees her womens libber boss ominiouslyL > coming up... He desperately calls HIS boss, and they have a 3-way meeting. > K > The libber is techie enough to know where my friend was heading, and goes : into the bathroom to calm down the girl and bring her back > out. > H > The guy goes into his computer room and gets a multi-tester, and after; reassuring her that it would not hurt her, she measures 130   > volts static across her hands. > I > She said then that she could comb her hair right out of the shower, and < still get crackle. I don't know if she was one of the people) > that could not wear mechanical watches.  > F > The Star agreed to go half in with her on a new wardrobe, as well as opto-isolate her terminal... > : > I know, the way the guy said, it was a lot better... ;-D >  > Jim  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 01:37:29 -0800 - From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>  Subject: Re: Janitor fixes 90L, Message-ID: <3AA20CD9.59714BE9@peoplepc.com>   Two stories.  H First, a friend worked for a company doing support for car dealers.  OneE local dealer's computer seemed to crash every Friday, between 3 and 5 H PM.  Coincidentally he was at that dealership one Friday when the systemD crashed  ... just after they started the popcorn popper in the otherB room which would cause the voltage to dip low enough for the power supply to kick out !    G Second, I worked at the VW plant in Brazil for a week or so back in the H 80's.  You could watch the "jog rate" on the assembly line in each VT420F in our room.  The MicroVAX and the LPS20 kept working right along !!! F Also this "complex" was the only place in Brazil that used 240V 50Hz. E Those clever Germans brought in their own power plant when they built D the place in the 50's !  Thank God all of the DEC equipment had dual voltage switches !!!     Jack   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Mar 2001 16:55:51 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Just Two Days Left to Vote 3 Message-ID: <VMhVMPX7IMt3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <g08o6.7091$3F2.2074053@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: L > Yes, the chad-free electronic poll at www.compaqworkinggroup.org closes onH > March 5. If you've got a hankering for affordable VMS, a suggestion toL > improve marketing, or even a suggestion on how to ramp up iPAQ production,I > visit the site and speak your piece. Many of the issues you can vote on , > contain text boxes for free-form comments.  @ I complained about the incompatibility of this site with securedB browsers, and subsequently I received an offer from the organizers@ of an email ballot.  When I accepted they sent something in some@ proprietary Microsoft format.  After my complaint they responded@ in text and I was able to vote.  Their email ballot contained no@ text boxes for free-form comments, but that does not concern me.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 03:26:31 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) : Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete. Message-ID: <3aa1b508.963946@swen.process.com>  J On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:42:53 -0500, "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com> wrote:  * >http://www.islandco.com/lowcost_alpha.htm > ; Arrrggghhh!  A page that won't display properly in Netscape ; V4.73 on a PC.  I hate when that happens.  Displays fine in . IE (and mostly fine in Netscape V3.03 on VMS).   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 20:56:19 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> " Subject: Re: Low cost workstations- Message-ID: <3AA1AED3.3D0513B0@earthlink.net>    Island Computers wrote:  >  > Geez > 2 > OK - How about this  - I disagree with Junk Mail >  > I get too much of it > It kills trees+ > It annoys the crap out of everyone I know D > It gets thrown in the trash before it gets to the right individual > H > Basically - I have a little more respect for our environment and would1 > employ a "spam" company before I did papermail.   G Well, getting junk mail at home is one thing. Most folks expect it, but F don't really want it. Getting junk mail at work is another. Most of us! expect it, but don't really care.   H ...and it's how a good amount of new business is acquired - it's not theF last step, it's one of the first: it can help you get your foot in the door. Remember "card decks"?  L > (Don't worry - we don't Spam  - just post to the newsgroups - thoug some I > am sure disagree)   ( Yeah - COV's been down that road before.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 05:34:38 GMT & From: Jerry Hudgins <jerry@e-farm.com>/ Subject: TURBOchannel frame buffer test results * Message-ID: <3AA1D3EC.FF464C04@e-farm.com>  B I recently decided to upgrade the video on my two old TURBOchannelC workstations, a 3000-300X running DU 4.0E, and a dual-boot 3000-700 E running the VMS 7.2 Hobbyist release and the Tru64 5.1 Non-Commercial C kit.  I had a variety of TC frame buffers lying around, and while I E had the machines apart, I went ahead and did some compatibility tests E for posterity's sake.  Perhaps this information will be of use to the ? many folks now buying discounted 3000 systems for hobbyist use.   C None of the systems have Open3D installed, so these results reflect  only 2D compatibility.  > Frame Buffer       Planes    DU 4.0E   Tru64 5.1   OpenVMS 7.2  : 300 internal (HX)     8        yes        yes*        yes*9 PMAGB-B  (HX)         8        yes*       yes         yes 9 PMAG-E   (PXG)       24        no         no          no* 8 PMAG-J   (TX)         8        yes*       yes         no9 PMAGD-AA (ZLX-E1)     8        yes*       yes         yes 9 PMAGD-BA (ZLX-E2)    24        yes*       yes         yes 9 PMAGD-CA (ZLX-E3)    24        yes        yes         yes   = * configuration not tested here; entry based on other reports   C For what it's worth, I believe that the 24-plane PMAGB-J would have C the same compatibility characteristics as the 8-plane PMAG-J listed D above.  This might be a cheap route to TrueColor for DU/T64 systems.  C All of these cards, save the PMAG-E (and the 300's internal video), B occupy a single TURBOchannel slot.  The PMAG-E occupies two slots.  B The best choices among the devices tested, in terms of color depthA and compatibility, are clearly the ZLX-E2 and ZLX-E3.  I ended up   leaving these in my own systems.  D A warning:  if you're thinking about buying the Tru64 Non-CommercialB kit for your 3000, go ahead and do it soon.  Rumor has it that theA TURBOchannel drivers will be removed from 5.1A, so you'll want to  get the current 5.1 kit.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 01:39:43 -0800 - From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>l3 Subject: Re: TURBOchannel frame buffer test resultsp, Message-ID: <3AA20D5F.2851C720@peoplepc.com>   Jerry Hudgins wrote: >  <snip> tF > A warning:  if you're thinking about buying the Tru64 Non-CommercialD > kit for your 3000, go ahead and do it soon.  Rumor has it that theC > TURBOchannel drivers will be removed from 5.1A, so you'll want toe > get the current 5.1 kit.     No rumor ... fact !!   Jack   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:56:56 GMT-. From: "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> Subject: Re: VMS apps wishlist; Message-ID: <c0co6.3633$YF4.1203377@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>   = David Mathog <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messagei& news:97dtft$5nt@gap.cco.caltech.edu...= > In article <3A99A18B.158B72F3@infopuls.com>, Christof Brassh <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > >I'mA > >using two OSs right now Linux and VMS but I plan to migrate as/ > >much as possible to VMS.e >iJ > For desktop apps?  You're clearly going in the wrong direction.  You canI > already get a variety of desktop applications for Linux, and the numbert= > there is growing rapidly.  Neither statement holds for VMS.f :t
 > Regards, >i > David Mathog  E Oooh, now _there's_ a self-fulfilling prophecy!  C'mon, David, you'rea7 advocating people get off OpenVMS and go to Linux?  I'mo {shocked|dismayed|saddened}...  J We need more people using VMS for desktop apps, not fewer.  Hopefully moreF than a few will be developers willing to put some time into writing or4 porting apps.  Only with users will there be apps...   Aaronn --< Aaron Sakovich          http://www.alphant.com/alphaman.html< The AlphaNT Source:                  http://www.alphant.com/< Even my car has a website:  http://www.alphant.com/cristine/< Make April 15 just another day:      http://www.fairtax.org/= "Are you a nerd?  How many syllables are in the word 'coax'?"p   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.125 ************************