1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 04 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 126       Contents:) re: Affordable OpenVMS - March News Flash  Re: dec 3000 300 crashing ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later ' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later  Re: Just Two Days Left to Vote Re: Just Two Days Left to Vote Re: Just Two Days Left to Vote+ Loss of time with new Elsa P2 DECW server ? 1 Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete 1 Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete 1 Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete 1 RE: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete 1 RE: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete 5 Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Problems with viewing 7 Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2001 08:00:53 -0500 7 From: hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) 2 Subject: re: Affordable OpenVMS - March News Flash3 Message-ID: <gkiI3gPF619H@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J Someone should tell Dave Turner that his PWS 433au "special" has a "typo":     33Mhz System 128MB    $ Awfully slow, don't you think???	:-)   Keep up the good work, David.    And check out the PWS prices at    http://www.northeastdigital.com   A (I have no affiliation with them - but I have dealt with them for  laptops - good prices).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:02:37 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> " Subject: Re: dec 3000 300 crashing, Message-ID: <3AA212BD.D3E644A3@infopuls.com>   This is a late follow up to the firmware memory test problem. I finally had to shut down my system and could perform these tests. Here are the results:    1.Test  3 T-STS-MEM - LLSC Test-Addr 01000000 FWD Wr 00000000 0 ? T-ERR-MEM - stl_c bcache hit at Addr: 013fc154' T-STS-MEM - Uncorrected Error count = 1 9 ?-T-ERR-MEM - FAILED status = 20 test hit addr = 013fc154  ?? 801    MEM 0x0020       84    FAIL   2.Test  3 T-STS-MEM - LLSC Test-Addr 01800000 FWD Wr 00000000 < ? T-ERR-MEM - stlc bcache miss with victim at Addr: 019f2374' T-STS-MEM - Uncorrected Error count = 1 9 ?-T-ERR-MEM - FAILED status = 20 test hit addr = 019f2374  ?? 801    MEM 0x0020       84    FAIL   3.Test   T-STS-MEM - OK   4.Test   T-STS-MEM - OK   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 19:50:42 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au 0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later5 Message-ID: <01K0T7755KEQ00AGMG@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   
 VAXman wrote: 7 >In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-b9XBNjo5mdn7@localhost>,  0 >djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:E >>On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:59:45, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:  >>	 >>> Dave,  >>> H >>> >A bit of analysis with FOR /LIS /MAC allowed me to restructure (or K >>> >correctly structure :-)) the code to enable the compiler to eliminate  ! >>> >the waste. No more overruns.  >>> - >>> Yep, I've done that on VAX, but Alpha...?  >>A >>Me too! I still do my debugging on VAX for this very reason :-)  > E >Why?  Why do folks here find such an elegant and simple architecture E >and instruction set to be so difficult to fathom?  Alpha is pushing  F >the decade mark and people still haven't figured it out?  What is it,D >a mental block from reading VAX instruction code for so long?  I am >just curious?     Brian,  H The most telling argument (and I'm sorry, I forget from whom), have you ! read GEM code (or is that GEMM?).   I Your question comes from a different side of the fence from where I (and   possibly/probably) Dave sit.  H You are a writer.  We write in HLL's (both Fortran seemingly).  The old J VAX macro was fairly linear and it was easy to read to assesss betterment J of my HLL code, even "highly optimised" VAX code.  Our reason for reading , machine code is to help us over bottlenecks.  1 Just for kicks, I wrote a simple bit of F90 code:        subroutine z(n)        real a(n)        a(:n) = 0        call x(a,n) 	       end   I If you have a Fortran compiler, compile that with /noopt -- $code$ psect  K is 572 bytes and /opt=level=5 is 720 bytes.  And can you honestly say that  F without a lot of pen and paper (no, I wouldn't be such a sadist as to D tempt us with an Excel spreadsheet), that you could easily read the  routine.  F Though, I agree, if I had a need to write Macro the rules are easy to I understand once learnt.  I (and possibly speak for all HLL folks who did  K scan machine code) find that I can give no return for any time spent here.  J Compiler writers are getting more clever.  What was a neat "trick" in HLL H is no longer; what was slow one day is much faster in the next compiler  version.  K I really no longer have a need to learn the machine level code to read.  I  I can appreciate that you as a writer can find it facile and can read code  F of writing contemporaries.  I can no longer shave off mico-seconds by H reading the code, if necessary I re-evaluate the algorithm more readily  than I used to.   I The BLAS were written by Jack Dongarra to exploit his idea of the merits  H of loop un-rolling.  The compilers do it now.  Then came along Atlas -- G the compilers do it now.  I again challenge you to disassemble soem of  5 that code written by a good compiler from HLL source.   G From IBM to CDC to VAX to Alpha, I have found that my anticipated code  I enhancements are so often the antipathy from one machine/architecture to  J another.  And more so now from one version of a compiler to another in my D favourite HLL  -- and I've not taken into account chip architecture.  . O.K., Brian, this is my mini-version of "Why?"   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development, 
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australia    Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  F Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most  people, ; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2001 10:13:55 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-vLXEXc06NbhX@localhost>   C On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 19:40:42, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:    > VAXman wrote: 9 > >In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-b9XBNjo5mdn7@localhost>,  2 > >djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:G > >>On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:59:45, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:  > >> > >>> Dave,  ..C > >>Me too! I still do my debugging on VAX for this very reason :-)  > > G > >Why?  Why do folks here find such an elegant and simple architecture G > >and instruction set to be so difficult to fathom?  Alpha is pushing  H > >the decade mark and people still haven't figured it out?  What is it,F > >a mental block from reading VAX instruction code for so long?  I am > >just curious?     Hi BrianD                     your original doesn't seem to have got thro' so  I'll reply second-hand.   F In my case, its mainly time, I suppose. If I'd taken the time to learnD the Alpha code in the same way as did for the VAX I might feel more E confident/comfortable about doing Alpha assembler. However, as Paddy  D rightly conjectured, I do most of my coding in Fortran. When we got A our first Alpha, way back in '92/3, we did get a single user M64  D license but I never needed it as all my assembler stuff was M32 and D (eventually) went thro' the Alpha M32 compiler - I actually found a  bug in it :-).    F All my VMS stuff has to run on Alpha and VAX and VAX/VMS 5.5 is still C my lowest common denominator. That may change this year if the 5.5  D customer moves to 7.1-2 on Alpha only. Then the LCD becomes VAX 6.2  :-).  D This being the case, the VAX is my reference platform. My colleague E does all his developement on Alpha (but never looks at the assembler  D code) and strangely enough this is the area that has given the most E trouble on VAX . Mostly where the compiler has been more tolerant of  E CVTLW where bit 15 is set. On VAX we, quite understandably, have had  B Integer Overflow traps. The Alpha compiler or the CPU is far more E tolerant. Unfortunately, this has got through to the customer where,  C at least twice, he found it. Locally we're Alpha-only so the stuff  C that slips through our explicit testing rarely appears here. Other   things do tho'  :-)   F Similarly, the Real-Time part runs under VAX/ELN on a KAV-30 (RT-300) 7 or an AMX400 (4000) so all debugging there is VAX  too.   A On VAX, I always compile "/DEB /OPT" so I'm rarely caught out by  A optimiser problems and I can drop to the assembler window if I'm  E confused or the DEBUGGER tells me 'optimised away'. On Alpha I'm not  F that far advanced. The Alpha versions (i.e. the VMS Client for the ELND test server)  are always built optimised, safe (!) in the knowledge E that they should work!  Maybe when all the VAX customers (all two of  $ 'em) move to Alpha that will change.   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 12:38:19 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) 0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later0 Message-ID: <009F8806.8BA8708E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ] In article <01K0T7755KEQ00AGMG@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  >VAXman wrote:8 >>In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-b9XBNjo5mdn7@localhost>, 1 >>djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes: F >>>On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:59:45, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: >>> 
 >>>> Dave, >>>>  I >>>> >A bit of analysis with FOR /LIS /MAC allowed me to restructure (or  L >>>> >correctly structure :-)) the code to enable the compiler to eliminate " >>>> >the waste. No more overruns. >>>>  . >>>> Yep, I've done that on VAX, but Alpha...? >>> B >>>Me too! I still do my debugging on VAX for this very reason :-) >>F >>Why?  Why do folks here find such an elegant and simple architectureF >>and instruction set to be so difficult to fathom?  Alpha is pushing G >>the decade mark and people still haven't figured it out?  What is it, E >>a mental block from reading VAX instruction code for so long?  I am  >>just curious?    >  >Brian,  > I >The most telling argument (and I'm sorry, I forget from whom), have you  " >read GEM code (or is that GEMM?).   Yes.  J >Your question comes from a different side of the fence from where I (and  >possibly/probably) Dave sit.  > I >You are a writer.  We write in HLL's (both Fortran seemingly).  The old  K >VAX macro was fairly linear and it was easy to read to assesss betterment  K >of my HLL code, even "highly optimised" VAX code.  Our reason for reading  - >machine code is to help us over bottlenecks. 
 >{...snip...}   H Thanks Paddy but this doesn't answer the Why.  Why, I want to know, does9 the "debugging on VAX for this very reason" need to be?     H I've written a fair share of M64 code but only when it was needed due toI explicit low-level and i-stream access issues.  I wouldn't preach to any- I body that writing some complex mathematic (or even some not complex math) J routine in M64 is the way to go.  What I don't understand is the debugging comment.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 12:11:52 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) ' Subject: Re: Just Two Days Left to Vote 0 Message-ID: <009F8802.D9E7635B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <VMhVMPX7IMt3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: t >In article <g08o6.7091$3F2.2074053@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:M >> Yes, the chad-free electronic poll at www.compaqworkinggroup.org closes on I >> March 5. If you've got a hankering for affordable VMS, a suggestion to M >> improve marketing, or even a suggestion on how to ramp up iPAQ production, J >> visit the site and speak your piece. Many of the issues you can vote on- >> contain text boxes for free-form comments.  > A >I complained about the incompatibility of this site with secured C >browsers, and subsequently I received an offer from the organizers A >of an email ballot.  When I accepted they sent something in some A >proprietary Microsoft format.  After my complaint they responded A >in text and I was able to vote.  Their email ballot contained no A >text boxes for free-form comments, but that does not concern me.    How can I get this ballot?  @ I simply do not understand the need for JavaScript at this site.A I can even -- with the 128 bit encryption version of Netscape for @ VMS -- bank on-line with my bank without JavaScript.  Why does a, simple questionaire form require JavaScript?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sun, 04 Mar 01 11:27:08 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com ' Subject: Re: Just Two Days Left to Vote + Message-ID: <97tde5$es7$2@bob.news.rcn.net>   3 In article <VMhVMPX7IMt3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, =    Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: H >In article <g08o6.7091$3F2.2074053@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. , Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:K >> Yes, the chad-free electronic poll at www.compaqworkinggroup.org closes   onI >> March 5. If you've got a hankering for affordable VMS, a suggestion to B >> improve marketing, or even a suggestion on how to ramp up iPAQ  production, J >> visit the site and speak your piece. Many of the issues you can vote on- >> contain text boxes for free-form comments.  > A >I complained about the incompatibility of this site with secured C >browsers, and subsequently I received an offer from the organizers A >of an email ballot.  When I accepted they sent something in some A >proprietary Microsoft format.  After my complaint they responded A >in text and I was able to vote.  Their email ballot contained no A >text boxes for free-form comments, but that does not concern me.   = I know of somebody who has bucks behind his bang who just got 7 pissed off at the so-called data gathering and gave up.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2001 09:04:00 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Just Two Days Left to Vote 3 Message-ID: <HMR$L9dnLEUq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <009F8802.D9E7635B@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:q > In article <VMhVMPX7IMt3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: u >>In article <g08o6.7091$3F2.2074053@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: N >>> Yes, the chad-free electronic poll at www.compaqworkinggroup.org closes onJ >>> March 5. If you've got a hankering for affordable VMS, a suggestion toN >>> improve marketing, or even a suggestion on how to ramp up iPAQ production,K >>> visit the site and speak your piece. Many of the issues you can vote on . >>> contain text boxes for free-form comments. >>B >>I complained about the incompatibility of this site with securedD >>browsers, and subsequently I received an offer from the organizersB >>of an email ballot.  When I accepted they sent something in someB >>proprietary Microsoft format.  After my complaint they respondedB >>in text and I was able to vote.  Their email ballot contained noB >>text boxes for free-form comments, but that does not concern me. >  > How can I get this ballot?   Try sending mail to:   	IN%"Erin_Thornburg@sba.com"  B > I simply do not understand the need for JavaScript at this site.C > I can even -- with the 128 bit encryption version of Netscape for B > VMS -- bank on-line with my bank without JavaScript.  Why does a. > simple questionaire form require JavaScript?  F This may not be a fair paraphrase, but the originator is free to break@ what has been the habit to date by responding in this newsgroup.  D 	"JavaScript is the only way to provide the proper user experience."   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 18:04:40 GMTC+ From: Patrick Moreau <pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr>+4 Subject: Loss of time with new Elsa P2 DECW server ?) Message-ID: <3AA27562.10209@cena.dgac.fr>o   Hi all,t  H another bizarre behaviour since installation of VMS721_CPU2208 V 1.0 andE VMS721_GRAPHICS V4.0 patche on my DS10 VMS 7.2-1. There is a loss of l@ about 1 minute per 6 hours of uptime (using the workstation). I I generally use the 16 bits display mode on the Elsa card (thanks Fred for  
 this one...).t  E On the morning, I've adjusted the time ($ set time) and now I'm more a5 than one minute behind the real time (6 hours later).   G Other bizarre behaviours were many data overruns using the serial line -G tta0: with kermit, only when intensive scrolling occure on the DECterm   (same with David's Xterm port).(  H I suppose there is some high IPL intensive work done by the DDX server ?  $ (Nota: I'm posting with Mozilla 0.8)  
 Best Regards,o   Patrickd --O ===============================================================================  pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA) moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)o! http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/ h" http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:09:33 +0100u  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>: Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete+ Message-ID: <VA.000002f1.a2f48d13@sture.ch>4  D In article <3aa1b508.963946@swen.process.com>, Hunter Goatley wrote:/ > From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)d > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms < > Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete% > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 03:26:31 GMT  > L > On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:42:53 -0500, "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com> > wrote: > , > >http://www.islandco.com/lowcost_alpha.htm > > = > Arrrggghhh!  A page that won't display properly in Netscapes= > V4.73 on a PC.  I hate when that happens.  Displays fine ins0 > IE (and mostly fine in Netscape V3.03 on VMS). > K Nor does it work on PC Netscape V4.6. This has got to be a first that 3.03  I on VMS does a better job (although the graphics resolution is very poor).e ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 03:24:28 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>: Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete5 Message-ID: <1010304032330.3369A-100000@Ives.egh.com>o  % On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Paul Sture wrote:j  F > In article <3aa1b508.963946@swen.process.com>, Hunter Goatley wrote:1 > > From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)s > > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmse> > > Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete' > > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 03:26:31 GMTu > > N > > On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:42:53 -0500, "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com>
 > > wrote: > > . > > >http://www.islandco.com/lowcost_alpha.htm > > > ? > > Arrrggghhh!  A page that won't display properly in Netscapey? > > V4.73 on a PC.  I hate when that happens.  Displays fine in 2 > > IE (and mostly fine in Netscape V3.03 on VMS). > > M > Nor does it work on PC Netscape V4.6. This has got to be a first that 3.03  K > on VMS does a better job (although the graphics resolution is very poor).  > ___u > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandt  5 It causes DEC Unix 4.0d Netscape 4.73 to core-dump...v   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Mar 2001 08:52:55 -0500v9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n: Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete3 Message-ID: <PcKMFvKZvMnu@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ^ In article <3aa1b508.963946@swen.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:L > On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:42:53 -0500, "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com> > wrote: > + >>http://www.islandco.com/lowcost_alpha.htma >>= > Arrrggghhh!  A page that won't display properly in Netscapet= > V4.73 on a PC.  I hate when that happens.  Displays fine in00 > IE (and mostly fine in Netscape V3.03 on VMS).  ; It is also IE-only on Macintosh, so I mailed a full report. A David responded and did _not_ say he only wanted IE customers :-) A He asked enough questions about my configuration that I was fullyu6 convinced the problem will be resolved in short order.  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 12:32:02 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>r: Subject: RE: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 CompleteR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF44C58C2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  H It would appeat the site has been fixed as I just accessed with Netscape% V4.76 and Opera 5.0 with no problems.J   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660g Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----< From: goathunter@goatley.com [mailto:goathunter@goatley.com] Sent: March 3, 2001 10:27 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi: Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete    J On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:42:53 -0500, "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com> wrote:  * >http://www.islandco.com/lowcost_alpha.htm >t; Arrrggghhh!  A page that won't display properly in Netscapem; V4.73 on a PC.  I hate when that happens.  Displays fine in . IE (and mostly fine in Netscape V3.03 on VMS).   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/+9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/i   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 12:35:42 -0600 (CST)u- From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com>t: Subject: RE: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete, Message-ID: <01K0SS2S5R4G8WVYSB@goatley.com>  , "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote: >rI >It would appeat the site has been fixed as I just accessed with Netscape & >V4.76 and Opera 5.0 with no problems. >nE Very strange.  I'm also using Netscape V4.76; the display today isn't0F the same as what I was getting last night, but it's still not correct.E I get the pictures displayed, but no text except at the bottom of thesE page.  "View Source" shows that it's all there, it's just not gettingu displayed properly.   @ Must be something funky about my Netscape installation.  Thanks.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/t; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:14:59 -0500- From: "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com>i> Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Problems with viewing/ Message-ID: <ta51f8hsie9441@corp.supernews.com>    People  J We have found that there may be some REALLY FUNKY HTML trapped in a couple2 of web pages, including the lowcost_alpha.htm page  E Please bare with us - we're going to correct it - only problem is they* designer isn't in the office until Monday.  ! We'll get it resolved - promise !s DT -- David Turner Island Computers US Corporation4 2700 Gregory Streete Savannah GA 31404m Tel: 912 447 6622a Fax:912 201 0096 sales@islandco.comF "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:PcKMFvKZvMnu@eisner.encompasserve.org...SG | In article <3aa1b508.963946@swen.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.comf (Hunter Goatley) writes:9 | > On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:42:53 -0500, "Island Computers". <sales@islandco.com>
 | > wrote: | >r- | >>http://www.islandco.com/lowcost_alpha.htmd | >>? | > Arrrggghhh!  A page that won't display properly in Netscapea? | > V4.73 on a PC.  I hate when that happens.  Displays fine inn2 | > IE (and mostly fine in Netscape V3.03 on VMS). | = | It is also IE-only on Macintosh, so I mailed a full report.yC | David responded and did _not_ say he only wanted IE customers :-)sC | He asked enough questions about my configuration that I was fullyo8 | convinced the problem will be resolved in short order. |a |lL ============================================================================ ==G | Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems ->X Clusters |-L ============================================================================ ==   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:29:25 -0800e! From: Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com>w@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes+ Message-ID: <3AA1EED5.8AD0371B@tmisnet.com>A  ? I haven't heard Hoffman's explanation for this behavior.  Hoff?l Cass   Christof Brass wrote:i   > John Santos wrote: > >h' > > On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, Ed Wilts wrote:e > >l > > > John Santos wrote: > > >aG > > > > I have discovered that in VMS (7.2-1 on Alpha, 7.2 on VAX), theeL > > > > modification date on a directory file changes whenever the directoryI > > > > is extended or truncated by creating or deleting files in it.  NogJ > > > > explicit change to the directory, just create or delete some files > > > > in it. > > > N > > > It's worse than this.  I've got frequent directory modifications even ifL > > > the directory file size is not changing, and this is on AXP V7.1-2.  IO > > > reported this here, and to sum up the response I got from Hoff, "life's a O > > > bitch and then you die, and not only that, but the problem will get worseoP > > > with the new government work that's being done".  That's obviously a grossO > > > simplification of what he said, but it sums it up pretty well (and you'rehP > > > welcome to correct me Hoff - I know you're watching :-)).  It's not a bug, > > > and it won't be fixed. > > >fQ > > > The solution is to use /noincremental. For those of you using Tapesys, it's O > > > time to get the patch released this week, since /noincremental before thevL > > > patch was ignored (I knocked multiple hours off my backup times when I8 > > > applied the Tapesys patch for the bug I reported). > > >  > > >         .../Ed > >tN > > Okay, so then the modify date on .dir files is now absolutely meaningless?M > > How about throwing it away then, and save the overhead of maintaining it?e > >( > > -------l) > > 2 years later (post VMS V7.4 release)e > >eJ > > Ooh!  Ooh!  I have an idea!  Since there is now a vacant 64-byte field? > > in the file header of a .dir file, how about using it for aLJ > > "user-modification date"?  This date would get updated whenever a userK > > modifies a .dir file (rename, change protection code or ACL or owner oriG > > max versions, etc.) but not when the executive (F11BXQP) creates orAK > > deletes files in the directory or expands or compresses it.  This wouldd > > be a *useful* date.e > >u > > -- > > John Santosa  > > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > > 781-861-0670 ext 539 >a] > I can't believe this stupidity! Is there at least a global switch to get the old behaviour?o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.126 ************************