1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 06 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 129       Contents:. Re: A Compaq Qwestion a VMSer Would Never Ask.4 Re: a little humor for this so often humorless group4 Re: a little humor for this so often humorless group6 RE: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle6 RE: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle Equnox terminal server Re: Help Hard disk full 9 Help! Instruction-Emulation Exception - more info needed. = Re: Help! Instruction-Emulation Exception - more info needed. < Re: How to replace a multi-volme disk set with larger disks?< Re: How to replace a multi-volme disk set with larger disks?( Re: Intel joke (When I'm Sixty Four....), Kevin Mitnick Rides Again... at The Register Looking for benchmarks RE: Looking for benchmarks Re: Looking for benchmarks RE: Looking for benchmarks Re: Lots of Microfiche found! 1 RE: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete  RE: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: New Sun Blade  Re: New Sun Blade  Offer ends March 31 4 Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file4 Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file4 Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file4 Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file Re: PROD Utility Failure Re: PROD Utility Failure8 Recent Shannon Knows Compaq postings at www.acersoft.com" Re: SWXCR reconfiguration problem." RE: SWXCR reconfiguration problem. Re: UCX TimeOut  Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?  Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?  Re: VMS databases for hobbyist? 7 Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes 7 Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes 7 Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes 7 Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:08:38 -0800 ! From: Don Sykes <don@alphase.com> 7 Subject: Re: A Compaq Qwestion a VMSer Would Never Ask. + Message-ID: <3AA3F246.AD7C038B@alphase.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------B7468B9F98E54906FFB56538* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    That's just what Homer asked -= If you can handle a small WAV file, hear him say just that at : http://www.alphase.com/simpsons/ (my site - VMS of course)   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:   9 > http://web14.compaq.com/falco/detail.asp?FAQnum=FAQ2859  >  > -- > Terry C. Shannon > Consultant and Publisher > Shannon Knows Compaq" > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net& > Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com  & --------------B7468B9F98E54906FFB56538- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="don.vcf"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ' Content-Description: Card for Don Sykes   Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="don.vcf"    begin:vcard  n:Sykes;Don $ tel;cell:Available to customers only tel;fax:415-485-6895 tel;work:415-457-8532  x-mozilla-html:TRUE  org:Alpha Software Express, LLC 8 adr:;;1380 Lincoln Ave - Suite 5;San Rafael;CA;94901;USA version:2.1  email;internet:don@alphase.com! title:Principal Software Engineer ^ note;quoted-printable:Website:  http://alphase.com=0D=0AResume: http://alphase.com/DonsCV.html x-mozilla-cpt:;5904  fn:Don Sykes	 end:vcard   ( --------------B7468B9F98E54906FFB56538--   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:44:14 GMT ) From: "Rob Brown" <robbrown@shaw.wave.ca> = Subject: Re: a little humor for this so often humorless group J Message-ID: <01c0a5f8$28b81900$5a8f4f18@cs918188-a.edmw1.ab.wave.home.com>  = Martin Vorlaender <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in article 2 <3a91cf8b.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>...) > Don't remember where I got this from...  >  > 4 > VAXen, my children, just don't belong some places. > D > In my business, I am frequently called by small sites and startupsE > having VAX problems. So when a friend of mine in an Extremely Large G > Financial Institution (ELFI) called me one day to ask for help, I was F > intrigued because this outfit is a really major VAX user - they haveG > several large herds of VAXen - and plenty of sharp VAXherders to take  > care of them.  > F > So I went to see what sort of an ELFI mess they had gotten into.  ItD > seems they had shoved a small 750 with two RA60's running a singleH > application, PC style, into a data center with two IBM 3090's and justG > about all the rest of the disk drives in the world. The computer room F > was so big it had three street addresses. The operators had only IBMI > experience and, to quote my friend,  they were having "a little trouble J > adjusting to the VAX", were a bit hostile towards it and probably needed< > some help with system management. Hmmm, Hostility... Sigh. ...   : I think Jack Harvey wrote this.  Maybe you can find him at harvey@encompasserve.org.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 06:35:51 +0100 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>= Subject: Re: a little humor for this so often humorless group - Message-ID: <3AA47737.F7B3C1CE@volkswagen.de>   9 I have downloaded this some years ago from a site called    > 	http://www.std.org/~schedler/cookie/vaxen-in-ibm-country.html  A The footnote says, that Mr. Schedler got it from obrien@aero.UUCP  (1-mar-1989)   Rob Brown wrote: > ? > Martin Vorlaender <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in article 4 > <3a91cf8b.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>...+ > > Don't remember where I got this from...  > >  > > 6 > > VAXen, my children, just don't belong some places. > > F > > In my business, I am frequently called by small sites and startupsG > > having VAX problems. So when a friend of mine in an Extremely Large I > > Financial Institution (ELFI) called me one day to ask for help, I was H > > intrigued because this outfit is a really major VAX user - they haveI > > several large herds of VAXen - and plenty of sharp VAXherders to take  > > care of them.  > > H > > So I went to see what sort of an ELFI mess they had gotten into.  ItF > > seems they had shoved a small 750 with two RA60's running a singleJ > > application, PC style, into a data center with two IBM 3090's and justI > > about all the rest of the disk drives in the world. The computer room H > > was so big it had three street addresses. The operators had only IBMK > > experience and, to quote my friend,  they were having "a little trouble L > > adjusting to the VAX", were a bit hostile towards it and probably needed> > > some help with system management. Hmmm, Hostility... Sigh. > ...  > < > I think Jack Harvey wrote this.  Maybe you can find him at > harvey@encompasserve.org.    --    - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards    Karl Rohwedder                C iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 Braunschweig  A Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843 E  E-Mail: rohwedder@decus.decus.de           | iT-IngTeam@t-online.de  +          karl.rohwedder@it-ingenieurteam.de  DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 18:55:19 +0000   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com? Subject: RE: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle H Message-ID: <OF4DF3B55E.922C2481-ON80256A06.00675B13@qedi.quintiles.com>  * Nic P Clews (nclews at csc dot com) wrote:J >>><trim>The main thing is "availability during intended available hours",6 over and around unexpected and unintended issues which' would normally affect the availability.   ? We need to bear in mind that many of the folks taking decisions > at this strategic level have never been aware of or introducedB to what traditional 'datacenter' (sp. sic) systems are capable of.@ They are probably well aware of the issues yet for the most part6 perceive no increased need for functionality.<trim><<<  G But then there is also that group of people that have systems which are I clustered but make very little use of the clustering facilities which are  available to them.K For example, I have seen lots of databases managed as single node databases I (i.e. they're running on and are only accessible from node A in a cluster I of two or three nodes) where the database administrators can tolerate the C downtime it would take to change a configuration file and bring the J database up on another clustered node.  Shared storage (including tapes ofB course) and queues are about the only items that are really taking  advantage of the cluster per se.  F Is it worth the extra cost in such a configuration to have the clusterK licenses?  Wouldn't it have been better to get a couple of DQS licenses and G DFS licenses and just share out the queues and disk subsystems from one  node to the other using DECnet?   , The answer, of course, is "it depends"...... YMMV.    Steve.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 17:50:20 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> ? Subject: RE: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle R Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF44C887A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Nic,  J >>> The main thing is "availability during intended available hours", overK and around unexpected and unintended issues which would normally affect the  availability. <<<   L One of the issues I tend to run into these days is that almost all technicalL folks have background and experiences with "availability" and if one asks 10L people "what do you mean by availability?", you will likely get at least 6-8 different answers.    H They will typically answer the question based on their past experiences.L Unfortunately, imho, the number of people who respond to this question based, on what is coming in the future is very few.  J The bottom line is that end users no longer care what broke, but they wantJ their application available 24x7x366 and to have it fixed 5 minutes beforeG it impacts them .. in other words "intended available hours" is rapidly  expanding to mean all the time.   2 Datacenter? Network? Server? OS? DB? Application?   G So, in other words, if one wants to talk about availability in the same J terms as the end users of today, then you need to address the entire stack+ (datacenter/network/server/db/application).   E In addition, since almost all IT HW requires some form of maintenance J (upgrades, repair etc), the new challenge is "how can I take any one pieceE of the stack down for maintenance with ZERO impact on the end user?"    : This is the "proactive" side of the availability question.  E What you will find is that as you go up the stack, it gets harder and G harder. The toughest at the top of the stack is "how do you upgrade the . application?" with no impact to the end users.  J I agree that clustering is changing and improving on various platforms. No	 question.   G However, as stated above, the end user requirements are also increasing  exponentially as well.    L OpenVMS is definately not "resting on its laurels" as OpenVMS V7.3 is addingL hot swap / add CPU capabilities, load balanced cluster traffic over multipleG NIC's, support for 100Km active-active SAN clusters (actually available J now), much improved locking performance, use of shared memory as a clusterG interconnect, improved Galaxy support (Galaxy allows middle tier of app C server to share cpu's with back end database server as load changes  dynamically) ..   E With each new release, the bar gets inched up a bit more .. Imho, the K active-active multi-site cluster capabilities of up to 100Km is pretty cool G - end user will not know which server in which datacenter is processing L their requests and individual systems (GS Series) will be able to have CPU's$ added dynamically as loads increase.  
 Reference:6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/index.html   :-)   I re: Himalaya - yep, they have some very cool stuff as well. Its great for L circumstances where it is unacceptable to lose a process if you lose a CPU.   I However, going back to the "stack" concept, fault tolerant addresses only K the server HW level. Repartitioning the database to rebalance the loads can K be an issue. If you lose a datacenter, they rely on fail-over (Nonstop RDF) F to some remote location as they do not support active-active clusters.F Course, depending on your circumstance, this might not be a big issue.  L Anyway, every OS and platform has its advantages and disadvantages. There isF no such thing as the best OS for all environments, but when discussingL availability, I would highly recommend making future decisions based on what= is coming and not just what has been experienced in the past.    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----) From: Nic P Clews [mailto:nclews@csc.com]  Sent: March 5, 2001 10:06 AM To: Main, Kerry  Cc: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? Subject: RE: Compaq to transfer clustering technology to Oracle        Kerry,  6 (Thanks for copying me, I have lost the thread with my: newsreader / browser, and I can only reply via email. MostA frustrating!) (Oh, just found it.) (And I have to manually wrap!)   0 I think the main thrust I was trying to get over; is there are newer creatures in the rathole! VMS offers and C still will offer in the future proven and reliable clustering. That 7 is under no doubt, but I am a technology observer and I : try not to take what I know for granted. I know I may come5 across as arrogant sometimes, but I don't claim to be : right, I hope I don't offend people, and those same people; will set me right! There was a small group of us at a DECUS 6 event who stayed for 3 hours after the scheduled close; discussing this and only leaving because we got thrown out/ 7 had transportation to catch. Mind opening stuff, if you 4 considered this UK event then skipped it, you missed some brilliant stuff.   2 WRT Oracle and the Oracle Parallel Server, the DLM< is implemented at the application level. It matters not what7 the OS is capable of. I've used database systems on VMS 9 (Cincom Supra) which very elegantly and cleverly bypasses < what a cluster has to offer, yet with before image and after6 image logging offers a secure cluster wide transaction environment.  F One of the important (as I see it, please lets discuss around this) is process mirroring technology.   > Himalaya does everything in twos, and it has the capability to= clone. You lose one of the pair, the single is then cloned to ; provide another pair. The life of a process can be extended ( beyond that of the uptime of any system.  A As you point out, arguably the need to do this is not very likely @ knowing most applications (:-)) and resizing, rescaling and most+ importantly migrating to larger data areas.   A The main thing is "availability during intended available hours", 6 over and around unexpected and unintended issues which' would normally affect the availability.   ? We need to bear in mind that many of the folks taking decisions > at this strategic level have never been aware of or introducedB to what traditional 'datacenter' (sp. sic) systems are capable of.@ They are probably well aware of the issues yet for the most part- perceive no increased need for functionality.   8 When some new 'whizzy' comes along which improves on any= of the issues, I can imagine it being embraced with open arms < rather than a full and proper evaluation of the marketplace.  = My overall point is VMS cannot afford to rest on its laurels. > The Tru64, at a premium, are offering what we take for granted? on VMS, the DLM, the cluster concept, even down to quorum disks  (but one vote each).  D I don't think this is non disclosure, there were no NDA's I saw, butB process mirroring is expected to be available as well for Tru64. I? admit to having some, but limited UNIX experience in comparison : to VMS. Forget how you'd use it, being able to do it opensD possibilities in the mind that sells the proverbial snow to Eskimos.  @ It amuses me to think that satellite navigation is being sold on? motor vehicles to people who probably can't even use a compass, B or read a map. However it must be a unique selling feature as moreB and more vehicles are offering this as part of the package. I hateC car analogies as much as the next, but I believe the best must alsoe; continue to innovate, no matter what the perceived need is.o  F I'm fighting VMS's corner here, but others contributing to this threadC are also pointing out that the traditional picture of clustering isq; changing. Here's a good one for discussion, is SETI a multi  platform cluster?r  < NO because multiple systems are (potentially) performing theD same activity until the results are delivered to the host system, if ever.   3 YES because they are working to one common purpose.?  + (I won't add further. I don't even run it.)h  = In the transaction world that you talk about, we only know ifi< it has been completed if that acknowledgement is returned to? the transaction initiator. Whether to retry or abandon is up tonB the owner of that transaction, the validity and completion of same< is up to the database itself. Where they meet depends on the? protocol. Overall its in the hands of the programmers, but theyu; don't all use VMS. Transactional computing is only one forme of processing.  5 To answer your specific points with my point of view:S  C >1. In a shared nothing environment, the architect estimates(?) the  expectedD >loads, sizes the servers and assigns specific resources to specific systems.H >Now - What does one do when the CPU (or memory) load on the server that  >"owns" a resource is exceeded ?  4 One A. Clone the resource to something more capable.  J To add to this, many programmers are probably aware that a brick wall withK processor technology will be one day hit, the way to get more power will be E to use parallel thread processing, and linux is moving that way (e.g.  Beowulf)  F Something to bear in mind about process mirroring/cloning, is that theK 'primary' uses 100% of the processor resource requirement, the mirror needs-J a mere small percentage just to keep up, leaving that processor free to do other work.p  F One thing that VMS does very well in the shared storage arena is boundJ volume sets, incrementally adding storage on the fly. I'm not aware of any, other operating systems that can do this...?  H But in terms of an over loaded server, the trend to SAN environments andJ its sharing, means that something has to be made to be able to 'take over'F ownership, if not today, in the future it will be available. Think howH the mastered lock is remastered under VMS. Further to that, bear in mindG that the distributed lock is a lock and it's copy. A clone in any others words.  F >2. How can one shutdown a server that "owns" a resource in the sharedI >nothing cluster for proactive maint with ZERO availability impact and no5H >failover (see comment above about disconnecting thousands of users with6 >their credit cards in hand - even for a few moments).  E I'm not sure how familiar you are with Himalaya, but take time out to B see what it is capable of. I saw a presentation by a technical pre@ sales consultant, and the audience (me included) all stopped andF queried, and appreciated the enlightenment. It is positioned above VMSE for availability, and rightly so. Its futures are something to wonderl about.  I As you say, the up and coming 12 months, but you and I, and I suspect the=K other odd greying/balding/bearded/short sighted computing professional have H seen many things before us, but predictable, most of it is by popularityG alone, save the odd innovation that does take the imagination by storm.   J Like me (!) VMS has to be able to rise to the criticism levelled at it. We all grow and mature from that.  H As I said at the beginning, I'm a technology watcher. I work with and inI VMS and there are still lots of people that want or need little more thanrH the excellence it offers. However that does not mean its the best in all cases.  < I am the converted but I think it pays to know your 'enemy'.  E Good discussion this, I've enjoyed reading everyone else's as well sol% thanks to all contributors so far....r   All opinions etc.!   regards, Nic Clews CSC nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:53:25 -0700- From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>  Subject: Equnox terminal serverX' Message-ID: <3AA3FCC5.EF534138@srv.net>   0 I have an Equnox terminal server (ELS-48) with a4 24 port card (24-port-cs) in it that is (literally) 5 fried, possibly from a lightning strike on a terminall, line. May be fixable. Chip (possibly labeled0 mc145406p/qqgk9044) obvoiusly burned, as well as
 a ?diode?.   I believe it is LAT only.g  / The box/power supply and the main control boardn1 appear to be ok, but not useful to me without any  ports.  / Anyone want this box, and willing to trade for r something useful to me?t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:33:45 GMT.# From: Mark Sterk <strong@sjello.nl>   Subject: Re: Help Hard disk full) Message-ID: <3AA4307B.9A1BA100@sjello.nl>-  
 PSF wrote: > L > I make a mistake yesterday and the system disk is full  (reste =200 block) > so I can't open a session D > I try to reboot the vax ( >>>b ) but the system stopped  completlyM > If I try to reboot from a tape ( I use a backup system tape) (>>> b mka500)g > the system stopped alsoh >  > Anybody can help me ?o     Try a minimal boot..    " From the console >>> boot /1 (one)   > set startup_p1 "min" > cC  H This will do a minimized boot, hopefully this is minimized enough to get it started.w  G If you realy filled the disk up (happened to me once), try booting from G another device and use the mount command with some /override or /ignorer' option. (I can look it up if you want).      Success,   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:28:48 -0000S0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>B Subject: Help! Instruction-Emulation Exception - more info needed./ Message-ID: <ta889gl7n1hg2a@corp.supernews.com>l   Hello folks:  I I am figuring out about Instruction Emulation Exception.  I have VAX ArchrF Reference Manual, 1st Edition.  Read page 363-365 about it.  It do notH have enough information to understand clear.  I found out that it failedD to mention modifier access but only address, read, and write access.  G About write access, each specifier incidates negated register number oriI memory address.  Is that right?  About modifier access like ADDL2, SUBL2,eJ etc,  I believe that modifier access can be splited into read operand then write operand.  Is that right?  E About operand decoding, I need more information about modifier accessp) mode.  For example, ADDL2 src.rx, dst.mx.a  D About dst.mx, it can be decoded into dst.rx, dst.wx (rending it into# ADDL3 instruction).  Is that right?   C If not, can you explain me more?  That's why I am working on my VAXh	 emulator.d  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:55:46 GMTl+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>eF Subject: Re: Help! Instruction-Emulation Exception - more info needed.+ Message-ID: <3AA43E1E.D514AF1B@ins-msi.com>n   Timothy Stark wrote: >  > Hello folks: > K > I am figuring out about Instruction Emulation Exception.  I have VAX ArchxH > Reference Manual, 1st Edition.  Read page 363-365 about it.  It do notJ > have enough information to understand clear.  I found out that it failedF > to mention modifier access but only address, read, and write access. > I > About write access, each specifier incidates negated register number oraK > memory address.  Is that right?  About modifier access like ADDL2, SUBL2,tL > etc,  I believe that modifier access can be splited into read operand then  > write operand.  Is that right? > G > About operand decoding, I need more information about modifier access.+ > mode.  For example, ADDL2 src.rx, dst.mx.m > F > About dst.mx, it can be decoded into dst.rx, dst.wx (rending it into% > ADDL3 instruction).  Is that right?o  G Yes, where the instruction ADDL2 R0, R1 translates to ADDL3 R0, R1, R1.i  K The VAX hardware must, for the destination operand, do a READ followed by aaM WRITE for 2 operand instructions - ADDL2 R0, R1.  So yes, your emulation codeaK must give a result to this operation as if a READ-MODIFY-WRITE occurred forsK the destination operand. This is after all what the micro machine microcode 3 that implements a VAX in "hardware" has to perform.l  @ The "m" in the operand's access specifier implies a R-M-W cycle.  I I don't have the first edition of the "VAX Architecture Reference Manual" H in front of me just now, but in the second edition section 3.1 is titledI "Operand Specifier Notation". It's in the "Instructions" chapter, chap 3.K   > E > If not, can you explain me more?  That's why I am working on my VAX  > emulator.e >  > Thank you! >  > -- Tim Stark >  > --4 > Timothy Stark   <><     Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgL > --------------------------------------------------------------------------G > "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, thatiJ > whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.0 > Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)    
 Jeff Campbelli n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 18:52:44 -0600l7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>wE Subject: Re: How to replace a multi-volme disk set with larger disks?t- Message-ID: <3AA434DC.811F046D@earthlink.net>n   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > ; > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:o > F > > Well, understand what is happening in a restore. You are literallyL > > getting a header, allocating an extent, then populating that extent withJ > > the contents of the saveset. One file at a time - just as BACKUP findsL > > them in the saveset. A strictly synchronous, serial operation, even in a> > > disk-to-disk /IMAGE copy or a disksaveset-to-disk restore. > O > There is no reason this has to be so, and I don't think BACKUP is as strictlydN > synchronous as you describe for this operation. Certainly, it shouldn't slowO > things down by a factor of 20 - I have never seen that in practice unless thepA > hardware wasn't cooperating (tape not streaming, for instance).   # Well, a story from my experience...e  H I had an All-in-1 shared document area of 500,000+ files on a two-memberG volume-set (a pair of RF73s). We had to move from four RF72s to the twokH RF73s. The save ran for less than four hours to a TF857. The restore ran
 for 47 hours.h   -- t David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 18:57:18 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> E Subject: Re: How to replace a multi-volme disk set with larger disks? - Message-ID: <3AA435ED.6533F45C@earthlink.net>b   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > i > In article <3AA06120.BC0DFBAF@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:o > >"Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > >> [snip]oO > >> Well, VMS 7.2 allows you to initialize very large disks with a clustersizeC
 > >> of 1. > >iI > >Assuming it's not a mixed-version or mixed-architecture cluster, yes -m > >that's true.l > % > Sorry, no, David. Richard is right.o > R > Mixed-Architecture is no problem (as long it's OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha ;-)@ > Mixed-Version is no problem (as long it's OpenVMS V7.2 and up) > : > Don't confuse ODS2[a] with ODS5 (which is Alpha only)...  H I didn't. OpenVMS-VAX's lack of support for ODS-5 is well known. WithoutD support for "long", and "free-form" file names, ODS2[a] is of littleG value outside of an installation such as All-in-1 or Pathworks/advancedeD server using very large storagesets where cluster-size can become an issue.   ...IMO.f   --   David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/k  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 15:38:29 -0500m# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> 1 Subject: Re: Intel joke (When I'm Sixty Four....)R+ Message-ID: <3AA3F945.3762602D@hsc.vcu.edu>o  - ok. no, i've neever seen it, what happens????    Jiml   Paul Repacholi wrote:e > ) > "P.Lj" <plj@byron.ext.telia.se> writes:a > F > > Come to think of Beatles When I'm Sixty Four, excellent promo when > > their IA64 is out. > ? > Ah, looked at the top right of a #9 videoed 4100 as it inits?h >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.oB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 05:05:09 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Kevin Mitnick Rides Again... at The Registerd: Message-ID: <9e_o6.1609$5f.494570@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   Stomp the identity thieves By: Kevin Mitnickn Posted: 05/03/2001 at 19:17 GMT     G Identity theft is one of the fastest growing crimes in the country, andd6 there's no doubt that the Internet makes it easier....  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/17358.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:30:13 -0000l0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> Subject: Looking for benchmarksa/ Message-ID: <ta88c5f76e8f74@corp.supernews.com>i   Hello folks:  H I am looking for benchmarks to measure VAX processor how fast.  I prefer" it can measure how fast MIPS, etc.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:44:21 +1100 , From: Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au># Subject: RE: Looking for benchmarksxF Message-ID: <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334B363@ASX235.asx.com.au>  J This is the one I use as a Compaq reference site for relative performance.- Despite the URL it also compares VAX as well.   ; http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_tps.htmla   Cheers,o Malcolma   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: Timothy Stark [mailto:sword7@grace.speakeasy.org]f( > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:30 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma! > Subject: Looking for benchmarks  >  >  > Hello folks: > ; > I am looking for benchmarks to measure VAX processor how c > fast.  I preferi$ > it can measure how fast MIPS, etc. >  > Thank you! >  > -- Tim Stark >  > --  . > Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org@ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------H > "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that 9 > whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have h > everlasting life.e0 > Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:42:12 -0000s0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org># Subject: Re: Looking for benchmarksb/ Message-ID: <ta8cj4stp60oc1@corp.supernews.com>l  - Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au> wrote:vL > This is the one I use as a Compaq reference site for relative performance./ > Despite the URL it also compares VAX as well.e  = > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_tps.htmle  	 > Cheers, 	 > Malcolmh   Malcolm:  E How about dhrystones, etc?  I want software to run them on my system.    -- Tim Stark   -- o, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:33:58 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> # Subject: RE: Looking for benchmarkseR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF44C887D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Timothy,  L Might not be exactly what you are looking for, but a few more VAX web pages:K http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/ (VAX home - has quick specs on olderl/ VAX's - not sure if any perf stuff is there ..)   L And on the topic of VAX's - for a walk down memory lane ...including picture8 of Dave Cutler, Richard Larry at VAX 11780 announcement:? http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/timeline/vax_article.htmlh9 http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/timeline/index.htmlc   :-)c   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesr Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: Timothy Stark [mailto:sword7@grace.speakeasy.org]i Sent: March 5, 2001 6:30 PMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh Subject: Looking for benchmarks      Hello folks:  H I am looking for benchmarks to measure VAX processor how fast.  I prefer" it can measure how fast MIPS, etc.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   -- s, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:57:45 GMTe2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>& Subject: Re: Lots of Microfiche found!4 Message-ID: <d7_o6.286$a3.10854@typhoon.aracnet.com>  1 In alt.sys.pdp10 Al Kossow <aek@spies.com> wrote:lB > The lowest cost unit that isn't a toy is around $5000 new. ThereC > is a hand-held scanner for under $1000, but I wasn't able to finddB > out what the effective resolution was. There are also hacks that@ > attach to the front of a microfiche reader. Canon has a pretty@ > decent looking model for around $10K. I was able to buy a used@ > scsi fiche scanner for around $1500. I also have a Canon plain > paper fiche printer.   Al,e& Have you ever looked at the following: 	http://www.screenscan.com/i  C Does anyone know how much thier setups cost, and how good they are?a   				Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:05:11 -0800t! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com : Subject: RE: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 CompleteD Message-ID: <OFE5ADE63C.A6D122F7-ON88256A07.00006D78@foundation.com>  9 Wow. Another thing Dave does better than Compaq....... :)/   Shaneh          ? "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> on 03/04/2001 10:32:02 AMl   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:,  ; Subject:  RE: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Completem    H It would appeat the site has been fixed as I just accessed with Netscape% V4.76 and Opera 5.0 with no problems.s   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----< From: goathunter@goatley.com [mailto:goathunter@goatley.com] Sent: March 3, 2001 10:27 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms: Subject: Re: Low Cost Alpha Price Drop - Now $850 Complete    J On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:42:53 -0500, "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com> wrote:  * >http://www.islandco.com/lowcost_alpha.htm > ; Arrrggghhh!  A page that won't display properly in Netscapek; V4.73 on a PC.  I hate when that happens.  Displays fine in3. IE (and mostly fine in Netscape V3.03 on VMS).   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/r9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/a   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2001 20:05:07 GMT42 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)" Subject: RE: Low cost workstations* Message-ID: <980rhj$s@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  o In article <8994A66FFE9ED411BD200008C75D64FD753FA6@BELMAIL02>, "Vajhoej, Arne" <Arne.Vajhoej@GTECH.COM> writes: 8 >The reason that VMS is lower than Unix and NT in TCO is+ >exactly that it requires less management !e  K Nope, my TCO for VMS is clearly higher than it is for my Unix machines. The.K initial cost is (much) higher, and the software maintenance costs (my time)sI are also much higher.  It is true that I spend (a lot) less time managingrJ the VMS machine. But that is more than offset by the huge amount of time IG have to spend porting and maintaining software.  I can't eliminate that K cost since it's pointless having the machine without software to run on it. J Conversely, once the Linux systems are configured and running they requireD little more care than does the VMS box, and I can obtain and installE software on them much more easily (== lower cost) than I can on VMS. ,F Typically a software install on Unix takes only a few minutes - that's NEVER the case on VMS.  : The WNT machines, on the other hand, are a constant PITA.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu2? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2001 20:10:59 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations* Message-ID: <980rsj$s@gap.cco.caltech.edu>   In article <y4vgpow5np.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:@ >Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: >nJ >> > suitability for        0  zero         5  fair          10  excellent >> >  "desktop" usageiG >> Since VMS and Solaris uses the same GUI (X/Motif/CDE), then I do not $ >> understand the different scores ! >n; >I didn't notice that one initially. This is clearly bogus.   J No it isn't.  Go set up a machine for desktop usage, ie, by a Secretary orJ other nontechnical user.  It's a nobrainer for Windows - you buy one from H any of a zillion vendors with Windows, MS Office, and maybe a drawing orF web design program or two.  The Secretary goes to work and you're doneI (until the machine breaks.)  You simply cannot configure a VMS machine tofD do this sort of work in a configuration that will satisfy this same J Secretary, mostly because the software doesn't exist.  You can get halfwayH there for Solaris (StarOffice), and even closer with Linux (intel only,  with WordPerfect and such).   ^ >In particular, the Win32 interface is broken in many ways, mostly by taking away choice (everK >tried to type into a window not on top? Dialog boxes refusing to go back? c  J Yeah, like that's going to ever convince the billion or so people who use . Windows  every day to toss it and move to VMS!   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduo? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech aJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:04:38 -0500o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)" Subject: Re: Low cost workstationsL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0503012304390001@user-2ivec2q.dialup.mindspring.com>  O In article <980rsj$s@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu wrote:1     L > No it isn't.  Go set up a machine for desktop usage, ie, by a Secretary orL > other nontechnical user.  It's a nobrainer for Windows - you buy one from J > any of a zillion vendors with Windows, MS Office, and maybe a drawing orH > web design program or two.  The Secretary goes to work and you're done > (until the machine breaks.)  "  E I think you have better-than-average secretaries.  Are they really somF self-sufficient?  Though I doubt it's always the OS's fault if they're not.  J Maybe they can call a help desk somewhere when they are stuck, and someoneF besides you answers the phone.  Have you tried to factor in such extra costs.  * (See the nearby thread about the ANY key.)   -- ? Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comt   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Mar 2001 20:16:13 GMTr2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: New Sun Blade* Message-ID: <980s6d$s@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  h In article <OFC35D97C6.27541FF3-ON88256A06.00616FF0@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: >iL >But it's better than Compaq's nonexistant offering in the same price range.L >Before denouncing it though, we should watch the sales. It's only feeble if >it doesn't sell.1 >:  I Actually, I am slightly surprised that Sun has not made a big push with acJ "First 64bit system under $1K" theme.  Personally I think the 64bitness ofK machines that cannot access >2Gb of memory is of questionable value, but ifJJ Sun and Compaq are going to flog it as an advantage for the more expensiveH workstation machines (which also cannot access more memory than that) itD would seem to be an equally valid sales point for the smaller ones.   J One thing that you can say for the SunBlade 100 is that it's the first 64 E bit machine where loading it to 2Gb (the maximum memory) is actually tK affordable.  It takes what appears to be a standard memory part so that 2GbnK of memory would cost only about $1900.  Too bad you can't add more L2 cachesJ though - it's slightly crippled with an itty bitty 256k on the chip and no external cache (apparently). v   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edup? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech m   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 04:07:02 GMT- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>F Subject: Re: New Sun BladeD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0103052304520.14284-100000@world.std.com>  " On 5 Mar 2001, David Mathog wrote:  j > In article <OFC35D97C6.27541FF3-ON88256A06.00616FF0@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: > > N > >But it's better than Compaq's nonexistant offering in the same price range.N > >Before denouncing it though, we should watch the sales. It's only feeble if > >it doesn't sell.t > >f > K > Actually, I am slightly surprised that Sun has not made a big push with au) > "First 64bit system under $1K" theme.       F For a company that can market circles around even Slick Willie and theA Ragin' Cajun, it is indeed strange that Sun would pass up such anRF opportunity. Perhaps Andrew Harrison will pass the idea along to Scott McNealy.   It's the MARKETING, Stupid!e  
 charlie matcor   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:31:06 -0800a From: info@stitchescreation.comr Subject: Offer ends March 318 Message-ID: <200103060631.f266V6S24106@zeus.ihermes.com>  c This is to announce our Valued Customer Offer for digitizing orders during the month of March only:o  0 One Design up to 5,000st will receive $10.00 off1 One Design up to 10,000st will receive $20.00 off 1 One Design up to 20,000st will receive $50.00 offe   This offer is available on any order for delivery until March 31, 2001 and is our way of saying thank you for being such a valued customer.i  { We hope you take advantage of this offer and will send us your purchase order today.  We look forward to hearing from you. m   Stitches Creation Inc. #200-112 East 3rd Avenue
 Vancouver, BCn V5T 1C8A Canada 1-877-373-8901 Fax:  604-873-8902 info@stitchescreation.comr www.stitchescreation.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:16:07 +1000/  From: h_ling <h.ling@qut.edu.au>= Subject: Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file.* Message-ID: <3AA41027.9EDF65D0@qut.edu.au>   Hi all,p  K Thank you all for taking your time in responding to my emails.  The problemo wasgJ actually in the download process using the Netscape Communicator 4.7.  The imageoG downloaded has 3 errors when using $ANALY/IMAGE command.  This happened-I to my colleagues' PCs as well.  So, I used IE v5 to download and the fileh didn't have any problem.I   How-Hie Ling Queensland Uni. of TechnologyD  
 h_ling wrote:0   > Hi OpenVMS gurus,  > H > I got the error messages (see the last paragraph)  when doing $PRODUCT@ > INSTALL on the PCSI file, DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI >  > I downloaded the file from? > http://ftp.service.digital.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.2-1/aE > by clicking on it.  Then I ftped to the vms host using binary mode.p8 > Then I changed the file attribute by using the command > $set file0G > DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI/attr=(rfm:fix,lrl:8192,mrs:8192)  > J > I got the same errors on the original file before the $set file command. >. > Thank in advance,- >- > How-Hie Ling > (h.ling@qut.edu.au)5% > Queensland University of Technologyr >a6 > LING $ dir/full DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI >tA > DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI;1    File ID:  (57435,6,0)n0 > Size:         2376/2376       Owner:    [LING]$ > Created:    2-MAR-2001 11:37:11.07( > Revised:    2-MAR-2001 11:41:19.46 (2) > Expires:   <None specified>y! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>n > Effective: <None specified>t > Recording: <None specified>e  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      OnlineJ > File attributes:    Allocation: 2376, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, > No version limit4 > Record format:      Fixed length 8192 byte records > Record attributes:  None > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None= > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:, World:n > Access Cntrl List:  None > 7 > LING $ product install vms721_pcsi/source=DSKZ:[LING]-  > %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading; > _REDASH$DKB0:[LING]DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI;1a% > -DDIS-E-TNF, invalid element syntax $ > %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedA > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminated    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:10:58 +10001  From: h_ling <h.ling@qut.edu.au>= Subject: Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI filex* Message-ID: <3AA40EF2.8D84F4D7@qut.edu.au>   Hi all,S  K Thank you all for taking your time in responding to my emails.  The problemv wasfJ actually in the download process using the Netscape Communicator 4.7.  The imagelG downloaded has 3 errors when using $ANALY/IMAGE command.  This happenediI to my colleagues' PCs as well.  So, I used IE v5 to download and the filef didn't have any problem.,   How-Hie Ling Queensland Uni. of Technology   
 h_ling wrote:f   > Hi OpenVMS gurus,  >eH > I got the error messages (see the last paragraph)  when doing $PRODUCT@ > INSTALL on the PCSI file, DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI >h > I downloaded the file from? > http://ftp.service.digital.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.2-1/-E > by clicking on it.  Then I ftped to the vms host using binary mode.-8 > Then I changed the file attribute by using the command > $set filetG > DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI/attr=(rfm:fix,lrl:8192,mrs:8192)a >nJ > I got the same errors on the original file before the $set file command. >- > Thank in advance,a >  > How-Hie Ling > (h.ling@qut.edu.au) % > Queensland University of Technologyr > 6 > LING $ dir/full DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI >pA > DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI;1    File ID:  (57435,6,0)>0 > Size:         2376/2376       Owner:    [LING]$ > Created:    2-MAR-2001 11:37:11.07( > Revised:    2-MAR-2001 11:41:19.46 (2) > Expires:   <None specified>o! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>h > Effective: <None specified>  > Recording: <None specified>n  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      OnlineJ > File attributes:    Allocation: 2376, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, > No version limit4 > Record format:      Fixed length 8192 byte records > Record attributes:  None > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None= > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:, World:3 > Access Cntrl List:  None > 7 > LING $ product install vms721_pcsi/source=DSKZ:[LING]1  > %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading; > _REDASH$DKB0:[LING]DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI;1a% > -DDIS-E-TNF, invalid element syntaxF$ > %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedA > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminated    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2001 00:22:31 +0100/* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)= Subject: Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI filet* Message-ID: <3aa41fb7$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  M In article <3AA40EF2.8D84F4D7@qut.edu.au>, h_ling <h.ling@qut.edu.au> writes:tO >Thank you all for taking your time in responding to my emails. The problem was.P >actually in the download process using the Netscape Communicator 4.7. The imageH >downloaded has 3 errors when using $ANALY/IMAGE command.  This happenedP >to my colleagues' PCs as well. So, I used IE v5 to download and the file didn't >have any problem.  / Could be also your own www caching proxyserver. I They nowadays store MSIE and NETSCAPE cache copies in different directorynO trees. And proxyservers (at least ours) are guilty for 9 of 10 download errors.r   -- s< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888k< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:06:33 -0600e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>o= Subject: Re: Pls help with $PRODUCT INSTALL on this PCSI file - Message-ID: <3AA43819.CF846FFD@earthlink.net>y   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > i > In article <3AA0633D.F20AA3AF@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  > >Here's the correct syntax:  > > / > >$ ren DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI - 6 > >ren DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.pcsi-DCX_AXPEXE >  > ?? > 4 > $ RENAME DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI .EXEM >         (or if you really like - the original extension - .PCSI_DCX_AXPEXE)a > 
 > and then > ' > $ RUN DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4e& >         (or if you really choose to:@ >         $ RUN DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI_DCX_AXPEXE) > @ > Why specify the whole name, when you don't want to change it ?R > Why specify the original extension, when you can have a shorter (and standard) ?   ??? Non capisco.  H The "standard" extension is ".EXE", but does not distinguish between VAX@ and Alpha. If it's the wrong image type, you'll find that out at	 run-time.p  F However, a self-extracting archive (.EXE) is not suitable for use with PRODUCT INSTALL (.PCSI).   I don't get it...m   -- . David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/A  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:26:15 -0800a. From: Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org>! Subject: Re: PROD Utility Failure ( Message-ID: <3AA3E857.FF42CB8B@vmmc.org>   Charlie Hammond wrote:  ? > In article <vDSn6.5$g6.212@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, I wrote:1 > ..I > >One thing -- do you by any change have two disks mounted with the sameaK > >label?   Like a copy of OVMSV7P2D1?  The PCSI utility tends to refernecelI > >disks by the DISK$<label> (DISK$OVMSV7P2D1 in this case) logical name.3F > >I have caused myself great confusion by doing this unintentionally! >G< > On of the PCSI utility developers looked at this and said: >aC >     "Yes, it looks very much like there is a private disk mounted-/ >      with the same label as the system disk."  >hH > I'm guessing that what might be happening is that the PRODUCT REGISTERG > is using the DISK$ logical and writing the PCSI$DATABASE files on theEI > private disk.  Then the PRODUCT SHOW looks on the system disk and findsC > no database. >r > --M >     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAnJ >        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.  K No private disks mounted.  Checked all DISK$* logicals.  Dismounted all buteO system disk and repeated PROD REGISTER VMS cmd with same results (ie no PCSI dbiC files created.)  Ran ANA/DISK and found no problems on system disk.a  L Is there any way to reinstall PCSI?  Or possibly copy all its parts from the V7.2-1 distribution CD?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:59:57 -0500t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: PROD Utility Failure=L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0503012259580001@user-2ivec2q.dialup.mindspring.com>  7 In article <3AA3E857.FF42CB8B@vmmc.org>, Jack Trachtman   <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote:  ; ons expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.. > M > No private disks mounted.  Checked all DISK$* logicals.  Dismounted all but I > system disk and repeated PROD REGISTER VMS cmd with same results (ie no  PCSI db E > files created.)  Ran ANA/DISK and found no problems on system disk.* >   O I have seen a weird problem with PCSI related to slightly broken logical names.-  . A normal disk mount looks something like this:  . $ MOUNT/SYSTEM <device> <label> <logical_name>  G where <logical_name> is optional.  If you don't specify it, MOUNT makes. the name DISK$<label> for you.  E At one time, we had a mount procedure that redefined the logical namelC after the MOUNT.  In the usual case, it got redefined with the sameQD definition that MOUNT had used.  Except it wasn't the same.  PRODUCTF INSTALL would not work if the name had been redefined.  There was someE internal attribute that was different.  /SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE and all theI; ordinary attributes were the same, but the name broke PCSI.   H We fixed the mount procedure so it left MOUNT's logical alone, rebooted, and PRODUCT INSTALL was happy.  P I think there was a DSNlink about this, but I got the solution by word of mouth.   -- f Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comM   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:53:55 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>A Subject: Recent Shannon Knows Compaq postings at www.acersoft.como: Message-ID: <D3_o6.1601$5f.487789@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  K Yes, there's a new batch of carefully-aged SKC issues on the Acersoft site.o. These are available in PDF format and include:  G SKC and Avnet's Australian Tour: No Blunder Down Under! (November 2000)   3     - contains lurid details on Sun's APAC debacle!   A CARTS LUG Hosts an ISSG Enterprise Systems Update (December 2000)e  I     - very ISSG-centric, learn why Compaq's OEM deal with Unisys is but ao stopgap measures  F Forward into the Past: SKC's Y2K Predictions Revisited (December 2000)  K     - in which SKC conducts a retrocast on the accuracy of our Y2K forecast,  F Millennial Musings: Fearless Prognostications for Y2K01 (January 2001)       - self-explanatory   Enjoy!   -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net$ Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:24:40 +0000g! From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.net>)+ Subject: Re: SWXCR reconfiguration problem.-8 Message-ID: <0tp7at0idmrkp4dc7fp6b82rcdddbt7pun@4ax.com>  E On 06 Mar 2001 02:26:07 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>o wrote:  ? >I want to split DRA1: into smaller units, but running RCU does ? >not seem to offer any way other than removing ALL except DRA0:n% >and then putting them back in order.  > 6 >Is there some way to just reconfig the disks in DRA1? >   >All are RAID0 except DRA4: btw.  B been a while since I fiddled with these, but (strangely) I seem toB remember that drives have to be destroyed in reverse order to they were created, LIFO style ....f  5 bear in mind I could be suffering from brain fade ;-)e --  
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:08:59 +0000i5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> + Subject: RE: SWXCR reconfiguration problem.aN Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D308018B126D@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  G in order to rearrange DRA1 you have to delete DRA4,3,2 change 1 the addsH 2,3,4.  Make sure when adding them back you DO NOT init, just add.  AlsoJ make sure you save config to floppy before starting as if anything happens' you can go back to the original config.i   Regardst 	Olivere   -----Original Message-----( From: Andy Burns [mailto:andy@burns.net]$ Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 7:25 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma+ Subject: Re: SWXCR reconfiguration problem.     E On 06 Mar 2001 02:26:07 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>t wrote:  ? >I want to split DRA1: into smaller units, but running RCU doess? >not seem to offer any way other than removing ALL except DRA0:l% >and then putting them back in order.i >t6 >Is there some way to just reconfig the disks in DRA1? >o  >All are RAID0 except DRA4: btw.  B been a while since I fiddled with these, but (strangely) I seem toB remember that drives have to be destroyed in reverse order to they were created, LIFO style ....r  5 bear in mind I could be suffering from brain fade ;-)m -- )
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------   Date: 05 Mar 2001 19:12:44 GMT; From: muggeridgefamily@aol.comspamfree (Live free and surf)  Subject: Re: UCX TimeOut: Message-ID: <20010305141244.10218.00000749@ng-cp1.aol.com>  O If V5.0 or later, you will find these options documented (See TCP/IP Managementh+ Guide at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc)    TCPIP$FTPD_IDLETIMEOUT d TCPIP$FTP_KEEPALIVE  TCPIP$FTPD_KEEPALIVE  A If it's prior to V5.0, then try these logicals with a UCX prefix.    Matt.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:40:41 -06000+ From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com>M( Subject: Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?H Message-ID: <craigberry-6A233F.22404105032001@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>  1 In article <980hii$q3s$1@westnews1.West.Sun.COM>, 1  "Marc Chametzky" <Marc.Chametzky@Sun.Com> wrote:g  < > I inquired to Oracle about a hobbyist version of RDB. TheyH > checked into it and now Oracle has recently added RDB for VMS to their; > "Oracle Technology Network" (at http://otn.oracle.com/ ).r > 4 > If you sign up (which is free), you can then go toN > http://otn.oracle.com/products/rdb7/ and click on the gray "Software" box to? > download the software. It's available for both VAX and Alpha.A  F  Clicking on the gray "Software" box on that page when logged in as anE  OTN member does not currently display any Rdb or OpenVMS products in F  the product selection drop-down list.  It sounded too good to be true  and apparently is.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 05:42:57 GMTs From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..come( Subject: Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?8 Message-ID: <o5q8at8gldatlb99ktcin2k5uopi68j6g3@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:16:11 -0800, "Marc Chametzky"$ <Marc.Chametzky@Sun.Com> wrote:0  + >This message was posted many months ago...v >aJ >> Are any commercial databases available for VMS hobbyist (at no charge)? >nM >Around that time, I inquired to Oracle about a hobbyist version of RDB. TheyoG >checked into it and now Oracle has recently added RDB for VMS to theiri: >"Oracle Technology Network" (at http://otn.oracle.com/ ). >n3 >If you sign up (which is free), you can then go to M >http://otn.oracle.com/products/rdb7/ and click on the gray "Software" box to-> >download the software. It's available for both VAX and Alpha. >/ >Cheers to Oracle! >q >--Marc>   good find. P  - I found I had to use a Wintel Netscape (v6.1)  to get past the registration. > then Wintel IE (v5.5) to get to/through the dn-load section.    3 Various and sundry Javascript errors, and similar. i (your milage may vary)  5 But I was also able to do the dn-load via Lynx v2.8.1dB using  http://download.oracle.com/otn/openvms/rdb/rdb706_alpha.zip6 once I had a valid OTN username/password to work with.  0 I didn't see anything in the legal boiler-plate ( restricting dn-load to/from the US only.  / but various restrictions against export to the o4 usual suspects, ie, Cuba, Iran, Sudan, Iraq, Libya,  North Korea, Syria.L  * rdb706_alpha.zip was about 106,854 blocks,   after unzipping:  = JRDBAMVE1F070.A;1       17073/17088    7-FEB-2001 18:47:39.27s@ RDBAMVE1F070.A;1          2709/2724       7-FEB-2001 18:41:08.24< RDBAMVE1F070.B;1      176841/176850   7-FEB-2001 18:41:13.92; RDBSGA_70_AMV.BCK;1  6930/6948       7-FEB-2001 18:40:46.72_; SQLSRVAMVF070.A;1     21852/21858   25-OCT-2000 11:02:53.94 C SQSCLIA070.A;1                4464/4464     25-OCT-2000 10:25:27.89.  ' Total of 6 files, 229869/229932 blocks.i  9 Haven't tried installing it yet, but each of the savesetsl listed without errors here.E   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:31:07 -0600C8 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.psinetcs.com>( Subject: Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?I Message-ID: <craig.berry-5303A7.00310706032001@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net><   I wrote:  3 > In article <980hii$q3s$1@westnews1.West.Sun.COM>,<3 >  "Marc Chametzky" <Marc.Chametzky@Sun.Com> wrote:i > 6 > > If you sign up (which is free), you can then go toP > > http://otn.oracle.com/products/rdb7/ and click on the gray "Software" box toA > > download the software. It's available for both VAX and Alpha.  > H >  Clicking on the gray "Software" box on that page when logged in as anG >  OTN member does not currently display any Rdb or OpenVMS products incH >  the product selection drop-down list.  It sounded too good to be true >  and apparently is.E  F Urk, sorry Marc.  It does work, sort of.   The problem was that there ? are two gray boxes labeled "Software" on that page, one in the AH left-hand column (visible but turns out not to be the one I wanted) and E one in a sort of fake tab panel about two inches from the top of the 0I screen.  This latter button (the *correct* one) is not visible in IE 5.0  H Mac, Netscape 6.01 Mac, or Mozilla 0.8 OpenVMS.  In iCab Pre2.4 Mac, it F is visible, but the check boxes for the license agreement on the next H page are invisible, rendering it impossible to agree to the license and E proceed with the download.  The recently released preview version of  E Opera 5.0 Mac is the only one of my five browsers that actually works 7 for this site.  Hmm, I wonder if OmniWeb would work....n  ? If JavaScript were a reliable technology, the postings to this gI newsgroup would trail off to a trickle since all the announcements would sE point to things people could actually get to.  Sigh.  Anyway, thanks iB Marc for the pointer, and thanks Oracle for the software.  I hope 9 Oracle databases are tested better than Oracle web sites./   ------------------------------   Date: 5 MAR 2001 19:36:00 GMTi4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes5 Message-ID: <5MAR01.19360029@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   > -> I can't believe this stupidity! Is there at least a global # -> switch to get the old behaviour?-  
 I thought:   	$ Create/Name BACKUP$BTE	> 	$ Define/Table=BACKUP$BTE BACKUP$BTE_DISABLE_SAVE_ALL_DIR " "  I Would ignore saving directories that had RDT's later than the Backup Datee on the directory file.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:13:01 -05007- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>)@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes( Message-ID: <3AA4015C.F8FF3EA8@ohio.edu>  K It seems to me that if you add or delete a file, you must have modified the G contents of the directory file that lists it. Therefore, it is entirelyrN logical to regard the directory file as having been modified at that time.  IfN a file's contents is modified, but nothing stored within the directory file is7 changed, then the directory file has not been modified.G  #                                 RDPo     Ed Wilts wrote:u   > John Santos wrote: >cC > > I have discovered that in VMS (7.2-1 on Alpha, 7.2 on VAX), theGH > > modification date on a directory file changes whenever the directoryE > > is extended or truncated by creating or deleting files in it.  NoeF > > explicit change to the directory, just create or delete some files
 > > in it. >aJ > It's worse than this.  I've got frequent directory modifications even ifH > the directory file size is not changing, and this is on AXP V7.1-2.  IK > reported this here, and to sum up the response I got from Hoff, "life's a K > bitch and then you die, and not only that, but the problem will get worsenL > with the new government work that's being done".  That's obviously a grossK > simplification of what he said, but it sums it up pretty well (and you'reAL > welcome to correct me Hoff - I know you're watching :-)).  It's not a bug, > and it won't be fixed. > M > The solution is to use /noincremental. For those of you using Tapesys, it's K > time to get the patch released this week, since /noincremental before therH > patch was ignored (I knocked multiple hours off my backup times when I4 > applied the Tapesys patch for the bug I reported). >  >         .../Ed   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:56:56 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>g@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes( Message-ID: <3AA40BA6.55394D10@ohio.edu>  O Some may be amused, others appalled, to learn that I got three E-mail rejection  notices from  ,     Postmaster <rkolisnyk@creditunion.mb.ca>  N rejecting my previous post on this subject, reproduced below.  Their anti-spamM filter evidently objected to one word in the earlier message I was respondingrO to.  I have censored both the error message and the quoted original, far below, M so that this note can get through to all.  I suspect most of you will have no I trouble translating the asterisks into a five-letter word for female dog.p  ( +++++The text of the rejection note was:  # MAIL ESSENTIALS SENDER NOTIFICATIONl   The following message:  & TO:      Brant.Kubas@creditunion.mb.ca FROM:    piccard@ohio.edue) DATE:     Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:13:01 -0500h@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes    @ has been deleted by Mail Essentials for the following reason(s):  ' Body contains word(s)/phrase(s) '*****'L     Mail essentials     +++++End text of rejection note.  ?                                                             RDPl     "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:o  M > It seems to me that if you add or delete a file, you must have modified the I > contents of the directory file that lists it. Therefore, it is entirely P > logical to regard the directory file as having been modified at that time.  IfP > a file's contents is modified, but nothing stored within the directory file is9 > changed, then the directory file has not been modified.  >k% >                                 RDPu >c > Ed Wilts wrote:  >l > > John Santos wrote: > >FE > > > I have discovered that in VMS (7.2-1 on Alpha, 7.2 on VAX), the2J > > > modification date on a directory file changes whenever the directoryG > > > is extended or truncated by creating or deleting files in it.  NoOH > > > explicit change to the directory, just create or delete some files > > > in it. > >DL > > It's worse than this.  I've got frequent directory modifications even ifJ > > the directory file size is not changing, and this is on AXP V7.1-2.  IM > > reported this here, and to sum up the response I got from Hoff, "life's a M > > ***** and then you die, and not only that, but the problem will get worsetN > > with the new government work that's being done".  That's obviously a grossM > > simplification of what he said, but it sums it up pretty well (and you'reRN > > welcome to correct me Hoff - I know you're watching :-)).  It's not a bug, > > and it won't be fixed. > >rO > > The solution is to use /noincremental. For those of you using Tapesys, it'stM > > time to get the patch released this week, since /noincremental before the J > > patch was ignored (I knocked multiple hours off my backup times when I6 > > applied the Tapesys patch for the bug I reported). > >P > >         .../Ed >t > --D > ==================================================================D > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerD > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesD > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:59:40 GMTd0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>@ Subject: Re: VMS V7.2+ bug - directory modification date changes> Message-ID: <MPG.150e010cd2515941989682@news.bellatlantic.net>  A In article <3AA4015C.F8FF3EA8@ohio.edu>, piccard@ohio.edu says...hM > It seems to me that if you add or delete a file, you must have modified theoI > contents of the directory file that lists it. Therefore, it is entirelyrP > logical to regard the directory file as having been modified at that time.  IfP > a file's contents is modified, but nothing stored within the directory file is9 > changed, then the directory file has not been modified.e  G You could make an argument that that would be consistent, but it would  D make the V7.0 change to backup's behaviour useless.  (Backup in thatF time frame was modified such that all files in any directory or in anyG subdirectory tree of that directory were selected for backup when usingCF "backup/modified/since=backup", to force proper backing up of files if a directory was renamed.)L  D However, and this is a big "however", that isn't what happens.  The @ modified date of the directory IS NOT CHANGED when you create orA delete files in the directory, unless the creation or deletion of A the file results in a change to the size of the directory.  Since.C directory formats are supposed to be opaque to the user, this makeso  the behaviour COMPLETELY RANDOM.   -- h John Santosn   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.129 ************************