1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 11 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 140       Contents:' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip? ' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip? ' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip? ' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?   Re: Can't SPAWN: SYSTEM-F-NOSLOT$ Re: CNET OVMS Review: Closing in 2005 Re: Connecting two 500au via serial connections. How? $ Re: Disk Read Rate / Disk Write Rate' Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later M Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) / Re: In-memory layout of PACKED ARRAY OF BOOLEAN / Re: In-memory layout of PACKED ARRAY OF BOOLEAN / Re: INFO-VAX Digest - 9 Mar 2001 to 10 Mar 2001  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations 0 Re: Open a file, open a another - fails silently2 Re: open vms newbie is looking far an DCL emulator2 Re: open vms newbie is looking far an DCL emulator Re: OpenVMS Educational Program  Re: OpenVMS Educational Program P Re: Poor Administration? (was) Re: Russian Mafia Increases TCO Of M$ Products <V# Re: R: [SURVEY] Info-VAX suscribers & Re[2]: R: [SURVEY] Info-VAX suscribers2 SONY DLT SDT-S9000 DAT dip switch settings for VMS Re: uVax3100 m10 & VMS5.2 ; Re: VMS 7.2 install requires MACRO32 for standalone BACKUP? ? VMS Quality vs. New Features (was: OpenVMS Educational Program) C Re: VMS Quality vs. New Features (was: OpenVMS Educational Program)  Re: VMS release dates  Re: VMS release dates " [fun] DCL (long) minute of the day Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day ! Re: [Q] subroutine library source ! Re: [Q] subroutine library source ' Re: [Q] tape allocated and process gone ( [request] %JBC-I-QUENOTMOD should be -W-  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 04:00:42 -0500 - From: daytripper <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> 0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?8 Message-ID: <5sematg4mmbhgtjargqs0gu02p8fko8dle@4ax.com>  4 On Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:53:41 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   > 7 >"Darren Peacock" <daz005@hotmail.com> wrote in message 9 >news:FsEq6.10155$0N3.67186@news-server.bigpond.net.au... F >> Cant remember the detail but back in 1988-89 there was a project in >Digital >> to do just that .. 9 >> My memory is fuzzy but it was called Emerald or Gem .. # >> It was descibed as VMS on Intel.  >>M >> But the initial downsizing then , the project was halted. Funny to see the M >> following  24 months some of the members end up in a small word processing  >> company called Microsoft. >> > K >Well, I dragged Charlie Matco away from his usual pursuits of wine, women, D >and rumourmongering and persuaded him to come clean on this matter. > K >There was in fact a DEC project called EMERALD back in the late 1980s. Its I >goal: to boldly send VMS where it had not gone before... into IA32-land. K >EMERALD was scuttled right around the same time the PRISM RISC project was J >killed (late March 1988). Prototype PRISM processors existed at the time,K >but apparently there were Big Delays with the complementary MICA operating I >system. MICA was, simply stated, a reimplementation of VMS for the PRISM J >RISC architecture. Dave Cutler flew the coop right after Ken Olsen pulledJ >the plug on PRISM/MICA. Word has it that a lot of the MICA code rose from# >the dead when Windows NT was born.  > M >Separately, there was a midnight project to port VMS to the Mach kernel. The L >project was done (half-baked, actually) at Carnegie Mellon University IIRC.I >Some of the incomplete code--which may well have a few facets of Emerald 9 >embedded in it--is said to be floating around somewhere.  > H >And that's all I got from Charlie. Heck, he started mumbling some stuffL >about OZIX, MERLIN, QUARTZ, CHEYENNE, and other cryptic codewords from daysK >gone by. Wish he'd be a tad more forward-looking and spill the beans about 5 >MARVEL... and the system a generation beyond MARVEL.  >  >cheers, >  >Matco's Handler >   H Um...Don't know how to tell Charlie this, but the Emerald program was toK produce a risc-based 32-bit micro in Hudson. And Cutler's mission in Belvue J was developing "Crystal" - a 64bit 8-way risc machine built out of NEC ecl/ gate arrays and AMCC ecl/ttl mixed-tech ASICs.    ; These were "VMS-on-RISC" programs, nothing to do with IA32.   M These were killed - along with the Argonaut program out of Littleton in favor F of the $3B disaster known as Aquarius (aka VAX9000), out of Marlboro.   H Had either Crystal or Argonaut (both of which were on the virge of firstM silicon) seen the light of day, things might have been different. Instead, in N managing to piss off most of the best talent it had in favor of Glorioso's own% swan song, Digital never recovered...    /daytripper    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2001 10:27:00 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) 0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?3 Message-ID: <iecpi5zLI04F@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <VhFq6.9855$5f.2979544@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:8 > "Darren Peacock" <daz005@hotmail.com> wrote in message: > news:FsEq6.10155$0N3.67186@news-server.bigpond.net.au...F >> Cant remember the detail but back in 1988-89 there was a project in	 > Digital  >> to do just that .. 9 >> My memory is fuzzy but it was called Emerald or Gem .. # >> It was descibed as VMS on Intel.  >>M >> But the initial downsizing then , the project was halted. Funny to see the M >> following  24 months some of the members end up in a small word processing  >> company called Microsoft.	 ...<snip> I > And that's all I got from Charlie. Heck, he started mumbling some stuff M > about OZIX, MERLIN, QUARTZ, CHEYENNE, and other cryptic codewords from days L > gone by. Wish he'd be a tad more forward-looking and spill the beans about6 > MARVEL... and the system a generation beyond MARVEL.    E There's always the CHARON VAX emulator for the PC. You can get a free # hobyist version off their web site.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 16:39:04 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?< Message-ID: <ISNq6.10902$5f.3168319@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message2 news:5sematg4mmbhgtjargqs0gu02p8fko8dle@4ax.com...6 > On Sun, 11 Mar 2001 06:53:41 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"$ > <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: >  > > 9 > >"Darren Peacock" <daz005@hotmail.com> wrote in message ; > >news:FsEq6.10155$0N3.67186@news-server.bigpond.net.au... H > >> Cant remember the detail but back in 1988-89 there was a project in
 > >Digital > >> to do just that .. ; > >> My memory is fuzzy but it was called Emerald or Gem .. % > >> It was descibed as VMS on Intel.  > >>K > >> But the initial downsizing then , the project was halted. Funny to see  the D > >> following  24 months some of the members end up in a small word
 processing > >> company called Microsoft. > >> > > F > >Well, I dragged Charlie Matco away from his usual pursuits of wine, women,F > >and rumourmongering and persuaded him to come clean on this matter. > > I > >There was in fact a DEC project called EMERALD back in the late 1980s.  Its K > >goal: to boldly send VMS where it had not gone before... into IA32-land. I > >EMERALD was scuttled right around the same time the PRISM RISC project  was L > >killed (late March 1988). Prototype PRISM processors existed at the time,C > >but apparently there were Big Delays with the complementary MICA 	 operating K > >system. MICA was, simply stated, a reimplementation of VMS for the PRISM L > >RISC architecture. Dave Cutler flew the coop right after Ken Olsen pulledL > >the plug on PRISM/MICA. Word has it that a lot of the MICA code rose from% > >the dead when Windows NT was born.  > > K > >Separately, there was a midnight project to port VMS to the Mach kernel.  The H > >project was done (half-baked, actually) at Carnegie Mellon University IIRC. K > >Some of the incomplete code--which may well have a few facets of Emerald ; > >embedded in it--is said to be floating around somewhere.  > > J > >And that's all I got from Charlie. Heck, he started mumbling some stuffI > >about OZIX, MERLIN, QUARTZ, CHEYENNE, and other cryptic codewords from  daysG > >gone by. Wish he'd be a tad more forward-looking and spill the beans  about 7 > >MARVEL... and the system a generation beyond MARVEL.  > > 
 > >cheers, > >  > >Matco's Handler > >  > J > Um...Don't know how to tell Charlie this, but the Emerald program was toF > produce a risc-based 32-bit micro in Hudson. And Cutler's mission in BelvueL > was developing "Crystal" - a 64bit 8-way risc machine built out of NEC ecl0 > gate arrays and AMCC ecl/ttl mixed-tech ASICs.  L C'est true about Crystal and its untimely fate. As for Emerald, the codenameK is consistent with other DEC Jewels of the era. Charlie claims to have seen H an Emerald manual, but perhaps was mentally impaired or bedazzled by the6 comely companion in whose residence he saw the manual.   > = > These were "VMS-on-RISC" programs, nothing to do with IA32.  > I > These were killed - along with the Argonaut program out of Littleton in  favor G > of the $3B disaster known as Aquarius (aka VAX9000), out of Marlboro.   H Truly a sad story. I am told that the Aquarians convinced KO and the BoDA that they could sell something like 3K Aquariae per year; a Great I Expectation indeed when IBM was moving less than 2K mainframes per annum. J Bill Demmer (proponent of PRISM and other midrange SMP approaches) gave upI in disgust and let the Aquarians have their way. A total of 455 VAX 9000s L were sold, and the product was rendered obsolete in less than 12 months time) by Calypso, so Demmer got the last laugh.   K As you note below, the stockholders and midrange systems engineers were not 	 laughing.  > J > Had either Crystal or Argonaut (both of which were on the virge of firstL > silicon) seen the light of day, things might have been different. Instead, inL > managing to piss off most of the best talent it had in favor of Glorioso's own ' > swan song, Digital never recovered...  > 
 > /daytripper    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:01:25 GMT / From: "HappyCanuck" <happycanuck@altavista.net> 0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?= Message-ID: <FbOq6.69886$UZ4.17948343@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>   \ I can still remember a product, not from DEC, in the Rainbow era called PC VMS. No idea what happened to it tho..   -- Bill Toronto, Ontario Canada   F "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message- news:iecpi5zLI04F@eisner.encompasserve.org... P > In article <VhFq6.9855$5f.2979544@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon"# <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: : > > "Darren Peacock" <daz005@hotmail.com> wrote in message< > > news:FsEq6.10155$0N3.67186@news-server.bigpond.net.au...H > >> Cant remember the detail but back in 1988-89 there was a project in > > Digital  > >> to do just that .. ; > >> My memory is fuzzy but it was called Emerald or Gem .. % > >> It was descibed as VMS on Intel.  > >>O > >> But the initial downsizing then , the project was halted. Funny to see the O > >> following  24 months some of the members end up in a small word processing  > >> company called Microsoft. > ...<snip> K > > And that's all I got from Charlie. Heck, he started mumbling some stuff O > > about OZIX, MERLIN, QUARTZ, CHEYENNE, and other cryptic codewords from days N > > gone by. Wish he'd be a tad more forward-looking and spill the beans about8 > > MARVEL... and the system a generation beyond MARVEL. >  > G > There's always the CHARON VAX emulator for the PC. You can get a free % > hobyist version off their web site.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:32:49 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>) Subject: Re: Can't SPAWN: SYSTEM-F-NOSLOT + Message-ID: <VA.00000302.232ae011@sture.ch>   < In article <3AA9D9BB.D5D4F092@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote:/ > From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms + > Subject: Re: Can't SPAWN: SYSTEM-F-NOSLOT ' > Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:38:16 -0500  >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: L > >   Virtual Balance Set Slots.  This VBSS stuff is indexed in the manuals. > M > Thanks. Checked the current docs (I have the last "real" printed DOC set at P > VMS 5.5-2) and indeed there are new parameters. However, VBSS_ENABLE is set to@ > the default 2 (bit 1 set).  I didn't see any values to adjust. > 1 > >   MAXPROCESSCNT and BALSETCNT, most commonly.  > K > But if show memory show that I have total 50 process entry slots, with 17  > available (33 used),B > and BALSETCNT shows that I have 45 total and 14 free (31 used),  > ) > how come SPAWN would fail with NOSLOT ?  > O > The guide to performance management is focused on process performance and has E > very little on how other system parameters affect process creation.  > L > >   Not when non-dynamic system parameters are messed up.  Clean the cruft# > >   out of MODPARAMS, and reboot.  > M > But that will never tell me what was wrong. I'd like to be able to find out  > what is wrong and fix it.  > O > I did an AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS GENPARAMS and in the report, it didn't suggest any ( > values higher than I have. EXCEPT for: > I >   NPAGEVIR  which autogen suggests to 8214528 but which I have maxed to L > 5536481, the suggested upper value of 1/3 of physical memory. (that should% > tell you how much memory I have :-)  >  > ***NEWS FLASH****  > ; > Ok, I decided to swallow my pride and reboot the machine.  > N > I can now spawn to my heart's content until SHOW MEMORY indicates that there& > are 0 process entry slots available. > I > So, I suspected, there was some sort of memory leak in the system which N > resulted in the OS not having enough resources to create a new process slot. > O Were you running Netscape? I mainly use it for newsgroups, with occasional www  Q access, and the latter seems to have a problem wrt memory leaks. I've learnt the  P hard way that it's sensible to exit the thing at least once a week, or I face a 1 DECwindows crash and losing 70 or so sessions :-(   6 I'd suggest that if you see the problem again, you try  &    $ @sys$manager:decw$startup restart  " and see if that cures the problem. ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:51:18 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>- Subject: Re: CNET OVMS Review: Closing in 200 + Message-ID: <VA.00000306.233bcab5@sture.ch>   M In article <nNvq6.9711$5f.2725235@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Terry C. Shannon   wrote:6 > From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms + > Subject: CNET OVMS Review: Closing in 200 % > Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 20:04:35 GMT  > : > So I went and took another look at the CNET OS Survey at > N > http://enterprise.cnet.com/enterprise/0-9566-601-1751615.html?tag=st.it.9566 > -701-1751615.dirruo.uo >  > L > there are now 199 responses for OpenVMS, which is far and away the highestM > feedback level attained by any OS covered in the CNET user opinion surveys.  > M 204 votes as at 8:30 GMT Sunday (of which only 2 negative ones came from the  L same guy - IIRC he initially posted the same message 4 times). 124 comments  posted.    ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:03:43 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> > Subject: Re: Connecting two 500au via serial connections. How?, Message-ID: <3AABBDFF.DE1AF0D9@infopuls.com>   Jesper Naur wrote: > B > Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org> wrote in message* > news:3AA8CAAC.9D057E2@childrenshc.org... > > I > > Will I need a 9 pin cross over cable? or a straight through? Do I use # > > serial port 1 or serial port 2?  > > " > > How do I establish the window? > >  > K > You will need a cross-over (aka null-modem) cable for the connection, seeu
 > for examplen > 4 > http://www.shadownet.com/hwb/ca_Nullmodem9to9.html >  > for more information.p > N > You don't mention the VMS version on your older system, but I assume you canM > find out the VMS device name of the port you wish to use, some machines use A > TTxx, others use OPxx. On not too old VMS versions, you can saya >  >     $ set host/dte <ddxx>C > N > to make your older system act as a terminal emulator on the newer system. If3 > this is not available, KERMIT might be an option.K >  >     Best regards >     Jesper Nauro   I have a cisco router with a serial RJ45 interface and a cable which came with the router to attach it to the router having a female 25 pin connector.I can use my VMS box's serial interface with SET HOST /DTE TTA0: to connect to the router if I configure the serial interface of the router to use software flow control. Unfortunately my other boxes which I use from time to time to connect with the router don't support only hardware flow control. Is there a switch to use with SET HOST/ /DTE or a characteristic that can be set with SET TERMIAL /PERMAMENT TTA0: that I can use my VMS box without having the router to re-configure to softare flow control inr advance?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:32:49 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>- Subject: Re: Disk Read Rate / Disk Write Ratee+ Message-ID: <VA.00000303.232ae223@sture.ch>C  1 In article <3aa87bcc$1@news.cvut.cz>, Paul wrote:h# > From: "Paul" <schizi@hotmail.com>a > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms + > Subject: Disk Read Rate / Disk Write Ratee& > Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:43:02 +0100 >  > Hello, > ! > We have DS20 with OpenVMS 7.2-1  > and Oracle 7.3 DB. > , > I need to find out Read/Write proportion -# > Disk Read Rate / Disk Write Rate.  > 
 > I know onlyl >  > $ monitor fcp/int=1e >lJ With that you are monitoring file opens and creations etc, not the actual  reads and writes.-   As a first suggestion try-   $ monitor io  	 Next, try1   $ help monitor  L The classes are listed in the help. Try out each class to see what it tells  you.  - Welcome to VMS, where HELP is your friend :-)j   [rest snipped] ___.
 Paul Sture Switzerland0   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Mar 2001 14:24:23 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>w0 Subject: Re: Drop C/C++ better sooner than later* Message-ID: <98g1qn$ck7$1@news1.Radix.Net>  2 Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote:N > In article <rdeininger-0603012127020001@user-2ive7c4.dialup.mindspring.com>,7 >  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  > |> tH > |>                                                 I don't believe theD > |> GNAT back-end is quite synchronized with the GCC back-end yet.    > Then you would be wrong.  :-).  M unfortunately he's correct (GNAT's patches are usually out of sync with GCC).m  J > |>                                                                To say2 > |> that GNAT *is* GCC is, I think, going to far.  ; > Can't think of any better way to say it, cause it's true.h  F > Here is an extract from README.BUILD from the latest sources at NYU:  D it would be more believable if these README's were incorporated into" current GCC sources (they're not).   -- m= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>y http://dickey.his.come ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:02:16 +0000t) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>lV Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram), Message-ID: <3AABAF98.7BC8C113@infopuls.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >  > Someone wrote... >  > > > > K > > > > The best of both worlds is VMS. Any single element of UNIX put into  > VMS reduces its quality. > M > Based on totally irrelevant things like apps availability and market share,tM > asserting that VMS is the best of both worlds implies that these two worldsd- > collectively represent a very small planet.T > K > Adding Solaris-like APIs to VMS (DII COE initiative) may help address themG > apps availability issue. And it darn sure will address the "Compaq is L > dropping VMS" codswallop and calumny. Of course, that's just my opinion, I > could be wrong.l   I wrote this because I suspect like some other posters that introducing something like UNIX compatibility will reduce the quality of VMS if it is implemented in the kernel and not as layer. This is my and of others technical concern.tMarket share and apps availability is not a technical issue. Will the VMS world be happy with malfunctioning UNIX programs like Navigator x.y? I regard the VMS people as similar to the Mac people. If a program isn't a genuine VMS programs there is little chance that it will be adopted. I don't understand this UNIX with VMS initiative at all. If someone wants to have UNIX, fine, but stay out of VMS. There are enough UNIXes around, *nobody* needs another one, e.g. a UNIX/VMS or something like that. Maybe VMS gets christened VMSIX.-   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2001 07:52:03 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)-8 Subject: Re: In-memory layout of PACKED ARRAY OF BOOLEAN3 Message-ID: <oCSMUahzEl7c@eisner.encompasserve.org>8  X In article <3AAABA33.835CA330@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  C Not presuming to answer the compiler-implementation questions posedE to John Reagan, but...   > A specific question about code generation on Alpha depending on the front-end. As you pointed out the language has some influence on the possibility to supply information to the code generation.> With C it is possible to declare a procedure having a variable number of parameters. On some architectures I know of the consequence was to let the caller remove the pushed parameters. This was called the C calling convention whereas with Pascal the number of parameters of a procedure was always fixed, hence known to the compiler and the code for popping the parameters off the stack was located in the callee (the called procedure) which resulted in smaller programs on average.n    G Why doesn't the [LIST] attribute in Compaq (nee DEC) Pascal handle yourmE needs in this area ?  (I can think of one shortcoming, but I would bei interested in your answer.)-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:43:15 +0000<) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>O8 Subject: Re: In-memory layout of PACKED ARRAY OF BOOLEAN, Message-ID: <3AABB933.62480C71@infopuls.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Z > In article <3AAABA33.835CA330@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > E > Not presuming to answer the compiler-implementation questions posed: > to John Reagan, but... >  > > A specific question about code generation on Alpha depending on the front-end. As you pointed out the language has some influence on the possibility to supply information to the code generation.> > With C it is possible to declare a procedure having a variable number of parameters. On some architectures I know of the consequence was to let the caller remove the pushed parameters. This was called the C calling convention whereas with Pascal the number of parameters of a procedure was always fixed, hence known to the compiler and the code for popping the parameters off the stack was located in the callee (the called procedure) which resulted in smaller programs on average.  > I > Why doesn't the [LIST] attribute in Compaq (nee DEC) Pascal handle your G > needs in this area ?  (I can think of one shortcoming, but I would be3 > interested in your answer.)e   Frankly, I don't understand your suggestion. I'm not fluent enough in Compaq Pascal anymore to understand your suggestion because I don't remember the notion of the [LIST] attribute.But from your last comment I suspect you are misinterpreting my question. I studied several C and Pascal implementations about 10 years ago and found that the variable number of parameters led to the inefficient C calling convention. I would be happy if Compaq Pascal wouldn't suffer from code generation flaws/restrictions/decisions/practices which came from the necessity to generate code for a C front-end. Basically my question was aimed in finding out how powerful/versatile the GEM interface is wrt theK front-end language needs or offerings, i.e. present and useful information.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:36:05 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>8 Subject: Re: INFO-VAX Digest - 9 Mar 2001 to 10 Mar 2001& Message-ID: <3AAB6324.329D1E28@gmx.ch>  * How do *you* deal with all that stuff?????A Is there a Q&D hack to browse this text (from DCL if possible :-)    Thanks,c D. Infovax newbie  ! Automatic digest processor wrote:k > ; > There are 94 messages totalling 3904 lines in this issue.r >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:44:47 +0000a From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>8" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations) Message-ID: <3AAB8F5E.C2273754@Omond.net>c   Christof Brass wrote:o   > May I ask all participants not to forget that installing a system is the least time consuming operation in administration over the lifetime of a system. > Changing the system by adding new software, hardware and giving the user more possibilities in using the companies resources is part of the administration tasks. And there are more. If we want to know TCO we have to look at those.  . Hmmm... I hate to get mixed up in this thread.  V I'd say installing the system (and constantly having to reinstall the system) is *the*C most time-consuming operation in the lifetime of the Windoze world.s  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:12:13 +0000s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>S" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3AABB1ED.81B8CBBE@infopuls.com>   Paul Sture wrote:o > D > In article <98aukb$b84$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  > [snip] > H > > And, the last sentence just sounds like your selling yourself short.G > > I have no doubt that most of the people here could master Unix in aaG > > very short time if the took the chip off their shoulder and decided H > > to treat it like learning any other computer related task.  It's notH > > as difficult as some would have you believe, but if you go into with@ > > the attitude exhibited by many here, what would you expect?? > >pD > Believe me I've tried to master Unix, admittedly the Linux flavourD > thereof. It is nowhere as easy as you say - it appears to me as anI > outsider to live around the philosophy of "you're not in the club of CS4= > graduates or teenage geeks, so we'll keep you in the dark".o >  > I could go on... > @ > But please folks, Bill is telling us to get off our complacentA > backsides and keep up with the competition, otherwise we becomee > dinosaurs. > ___n > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandi   If he would ...o|Using a ten years younger OS than UNIX should not invite anybody from that very UNIX community to give advice against dinosaurism. UNIX and C/C++ are dinonsaurs in our business. I think these people should make a move. The basic problems of UNIX haven't been fixed otherwise it wouldn't be UNIX any longer. Where is the point in lowering the quality or wasting the time with UNIX?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:50:27 +0000I) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>n" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3AABBAE3.B7A01956@infopuls.com>   Roy Omond wrote: >  > Christof Brass wrote:  >  > > May I ask all participants not to forget that installing a system is the least time consuming operation in administration over the lifetime of a system. > > Changing the system by adding new software, hardware and giving the user more possibilities in using the companies resources is part of the administration tasks. And there are more. If we want to know TCO we have to look at those. > 0 > Hmmm... I hate to get mixed up in this thread. > X > I'd say installing the system (and constantly having to reinstall the system) is *the*E > most time-consuming operation in the lifetime of the Windoze world.O >  > Roy OmondV > Blue Bubble Ltd.  Unfortunately you are right but I don't consider any Micro$oft product as an OS (so these so called OSes are ruled out). In fact I'm sure a company offering the service to correct screwed up Micro$oft-So-Called-OSs installations will be a tremendous success. There are big consulting companies where the developers have to install new software on their laptops or desktops and if the system is screwed up the help center re-installs all from scratch delivering the machine a half, one or two days later. Theon major part for TCO with this procedure is the time lost for the consultant/developer in using his/her machine!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:32:47 +0100y  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>9 Subject: Re: Open a file, open a another - fails silentlyr+ Message-ID: <VA.000002fe.232ad8de@sture.ch>i  C In article <3AA8EF38.14A3F9A1@CCAgroup.co.uk>, Chris Sharman wrote:o4 > From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsc7 > Subject: Open a file, open a another - fails silentlye' > Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:56:56 +0000u >  > Using Alpha VMS 7.1, > ' > $ open/read a anyfile.txt ! works ok.m6 > $ open/read a anotherfile.txt ! no action, no error. > I > This coding error generates no error, and doesn't open the second file.  > Anyone else seen this ?n > < As others have pointed out, this is long standing behaviour.  F In contrast to Didier's observation that you might see EOF 99% of the I time, the current record pointer is in fact unchanged by the second open.h  J I use this to advantage when doing global edits. When finding that I have G missed something in my EDT startup command file, I can CTRL/Y, correct r/ the problem, and then pick up where I left off.e  F By way of example, I keep the following bit of DCL handy. EDIT.DAT is J typically created by a SEARCH/WINDOW=0/OUTPUT=EDIT.DAT, but could equally " be done by a DIR or other command.   $! EDIT.COM  $! --------r $! $  open /read in edit.datt $loop: $  read/end=exit in data4 $  version = f$parse(data,,,"VERSION","SYNTAX_ONLY"); $  data = data - version   ! always take the latest versionl$ $  define/user sys$input sys$command$ $  edit/edt 'data' /command=edit.edt $  goto loop $exit: $  close in'  ( A typical EDIT.EDT file might look like:   s/string1/string2/%wha s/string3/string4/%wht exit  I And for files which may require a bit of manual intervention, I'll leave -I out the exit, so that I'm left in the editor for each file and it's then S" my choice whether to quit or exit.   ___S
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 08:53:37 +01007( From: Bernd Eckstein <B.Eckstein@cli.de>; Subject: Re: open vms newbie is looking far an DCL emulatord& Message-ID: <3AAB2F01.AD547D76@cli.de>   "g.reinders" wrote:v >  > Hi,gH > I'm looking for an DCL emulator to try DCL command under Windows (jek)N > who can tell me if such a program exists And if it does where I can find it.  ; Accelr8 is selling Open DCL and there is a lite version foru8 download on their websize available vor Linux and Win NT# http://www.accelr8.com/dclllic.htmle   -- lC B.Eckstein, TTi Entwicklungszentrum GmbH - mailto:B.Eckstein@cli.de C Matthiashofstr. 28, D-52064 Aachen - Fon: +49 241 47051-0, Fax: -89    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Mar 2001 14:36:14 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)l; Subject: Re: open vms newbie is looking far an DCL emulatore' Message-ID: <98g2gu$6r1$1@joe.rice.edu>   ! g.reinders (level@home.nl) wrote:  : Hi,:H : I'm looking for an DCL emulator to try DCL command under Windows (jek)F : who can tell me if such a program exists And if it does where I can 
 : find it.  
 XLNT from:     http://www.advsyscon.com/3!   Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc.   4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 02:09:21 -0500o  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program. Message-ID: <1010311020352.3369A@Ives.egh.com>  $ On 9 Mar 2001, Paul Repacholi wrote:  $ > John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > G > > Why would they bother?  Anyone can join DECUS and get a free set ofmD > > PAKs for almost everything, over the net, in minutes.  Remember,? > > PAKs are an administration tool, not an enforcement tool...  > > E > > P.S.  I'm *not* advocating anyone do this, just pointing out thatoG > > there are obviously much easier ways to steal licenses than writingf > > a PAK generator. > G > Why not? I am advocating DECUS to students etc for justy this reason. 7 > There are others as well, but this one is the carrot.a  D Whoops!  I meant I was not advocating someone join DECUS and acquireA hobbyist licenses with the intent of using them commercially!  OfhB course I would like to see every old cast-off VAX and Alpha in theE world (well, except maybe some MV-I's and 11/730's) resurrected as a  ' legitimate hobbyist or EDU system.  ;-)i   > -- n> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.tB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. >  >    -- l John Santosr Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2001 08:57:47 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program- Message-ID: <87d7bpdsvo.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  9 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:s  A > So, if RMS is one of the many elements of VMS that UN*X systems F > lack, shouldn't the ability to easily side-step it be an enhancement	 > to VMS?    $READ and $WRITE?.   H > You can sort of do that now, I suppose, with the resultant files beingG > seen by RMS as Stream_LF. However, I wouldn't know how to resolve the C > difference between UN*X text files and binary files other than tod. > distinguish between Stream_LF and Fixed-512.  C *Unix does not have text files* Or any file type. Nill, zip, nadda.iA It just has a stream of bytes. Text or not? Up to the app, or, tom@ quote the holy scripture of St Bash " It's a Luzerland problem "  H Now, if you wanted unix semantics, it is REAL easy. File type UNDEFINED.G Done. Bit of a pain if you want to use anything other that 'unix' toolscJ to do anything with it though. So we handwave a fiction the they are STMLFG or F512 on a punt, and hope it does not fall over TOO often. Works welltE all considered. But, never, ever forget it is just a crock and a hand  wave!n  H > I dunno. I just had to ask that. Other than restrictions pertaining toH > ODS-2, most of which will be eliminated by the successor to ODS-5, RMSG > seems (to me) to be one of the next biggest "hitch"-es in the porting  > effort(s).  C The 'restrictions' are what makes it possible to have a sane set oftF standards for languages, interface, and RLT/system to work to.  If youE consider that on unix, EVERY shell line, could be a file name. So you E need special quoting... Bletch! If you have a GOOD argument as to why E the ODS-2 file names in inadiquate as *file names*, tell me. I'd loved to hear a good one.f   -- R< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.@@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:56:13 +0100j" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>Y Subject: Re: Poor Administration? (was) Re: Russian Mafia Increases TCO Of M$ Products <V>( Message-ID: <98fsro$795$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  E Hmm, what I've seen from MCSE's leads me to believe that one can passiF all the exams while staying quite ignorant on many WNT related topics.F Let an MCSE (who has done networking essentials) explain the algorithmE how a node determines whether it needs a router to reach another nodew with IP.I Simple question, right? Just try it and see how many clueless answers yous canM collect.  
 Hans Vlems  4 Bradford J. Hamilton heeft geschreven in bericht ...G >In article <P1sq6.1988$G76.3437846@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.l, Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >>9 >> "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in messageh$ >> news:98de54$j9b$1@joe.rice.edu... ><snip>  >>>t7 >>>   http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/8/17456.htmle >>J >> Quintessential bullies, those Russian Mafiosi... why don't they pick on* >> something their own size, like OpenVMS. >>G >> The article (and the official source from which it came) provide yets anotheriE >> proof point that OpenVMS is a Better Answer than Windoze aNyThing.r >> >>H >Can it be argued (after reading the article) that it was not the use of WinNT,I >but rather the *mis*use (not applying patches to fix several-years-known A >vunerabilities) of the OS that led to this current tragi-comedy?o >yJ >Were these systems administered by MCSEs?  Is the quality of MCSE courses soH >poor that security becomes an afterthought, rather than a basic?  Is itE >possible to mis-administer a VMS system in such a way that a similar  incident >could occur on that system?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:32:50 +0100n  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>, Subject: Re: R: [SURVEY] Info-VAX suscribers+ Message-ID: <VA.00000304.232ae346@sture.ch>r  : In article <98cvtk$esg$1@serv1.albacom.net>, Asmeda wrote:% > From: "asmeda" <asmeda@virgilio.it>o > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms * > Subject: R: [SURVEY] Info-VAX suscribers' > Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:38:21 +0100u >  > 9 > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in messageo > 3AA9FDEF.BD6B6A96@gmx.ch...aI > > How come there are only 79 people currenty subscribed to the info-VAXe > list? ArehI > > we only 79 persons dealing with VMS daily operations in the world (wet > couldaI > > create a club) or most of the readers/participants use a news browserc
 > instead? > >m > > D. > Where is this info-VAX ?
 > DANKEN . >h7 See INTRO3 and there following sections in the VMS FAQ.w ___r
 Paul Sture Switzerlandm   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:11:49 +0400s4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>/ Subject: Re[2]: R: [SURVEY] Info-VAX suscribers 5 Message-ID: <10421036314.20010311141149@ncc.volga.ru>e  : >> Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in messageB >> 3AA9FDEF.BD6B6A96@gmx.ch... > How come there are only 79 peopleE >> currenty subscribed to the info-VAX list? Are > we only 79 persons F >> dealing with VMS daily operations in the world (we could > create a? >> club) or most of the readers/participants use a news browser  >> instead?e  ;   I've stopped to receive INFO-VAX stream from 5-mar, after E re-subscribing things goes well again. So may be it was unintentional-: massive unsubscribing or intentional action to clear list?   -- i   Valentin Likoumf   valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:24:45 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>; Subject: SONY DLT SDT-S9000 DAT dip switch settings for VMS + Message-ID: <VA.00000309.235a6d64@sture.ch>i   Hi,e  B I've recently acquired a SONY SDT-S9000 tape drive. DDS3 and goes ? nicely. Reports itself as a SONY SDT-9000 from Alpha VMS 7.2-1.g  D But a SHOW DEVICE/FULL reports it as density DDS1, even though I've 0 done my backup with /DENSITY=DDS3/MEDIA=COMPACT.  B The manual has a table suggesting DIP switch settings for various A flavours of Unix, from which I chose the one called "Digital WS".m  D The size and number of backups I can fit on tape suggest that it is G doing the DDS3 compression, but I don't know if it's being done by the r( DIP switches or "intelligently" via VMS.    F http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/support/storage/faqs/dat.html gives 1-800 D fax numbers for the dip switch settings. But being outside the US I  cannot reach those numbers :-(  = Does anyone have the relevant info or recommendations please?d  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:32:49 +0100e  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>" Subject: Re: uVax3100 m10 & VMS5.2+ Message-ID: <VA.00000301.232adeb2@sture.ch>C  D In article <kkdiat412g762lr9ll95hc5ririh7a3t10@4ax.com>, Greg elkin  wrote:5 > From: greg elkin <cmkrnl@bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk>s > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms   > Subject: uVax3100 m10 & VMS5.2' > Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:05:11 +0000  > H > Just acquired an old microvax 3100 model 10 with 2 RZ23s in it, DKA3001 > and DKA200, and an external SCSI TK50 at MKB500  > C > SHO DEV at the >>> prompt shows all three devices happily there.   > B > I can boot VAX/VMS 5.2 off DKA300 and can log in, but DKA200 nor? > MKB500 is there if I do a SHO DEV or if I try to mount them. s > Any clues? > D > Does anyone have any pointers to online documentation for the 3100 > model 10?- > I Not the model 10, I know, but the model 76 documentation can be found at o5 http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-I.HTMLD   ___8
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2001 17:44:38 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)D Subject: Re: VMS 7.2 install requires MACRO32 for standalone BACKUP?* Message-ID: <3aabab76$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  l In article <1caq6.59$S91.2159@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:r >In article <24Rp6.28$S91.585@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:K >:If security is a concern, I think you can protect MACRO from unauthorizedl7 >:access without having to exclude it from your system.t >lH >  Actually, you can write Macro64 code using various tools, no need forG >  the Macro32 assembler nor the Macro64 compiler.  Or, since compilersh1        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^wD >  and assemblers are normally non-privileged, nothing precludes theK >  acquisition of the tools from another site.  In other words, the removalhJ >  of Macro32 is not security-relevent, nor is it a particularly reliable ? >  approach toward preventing someone from creating programs...e  . Ooops. One of the very rare errors of Hoff ;-)% It's good to see, he is a human, too.s  O It's Macro32 compiler and Macro64 assembler (at least on the [discussed] Alpha).   -- n< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Mar 2001 07:45:31 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)gH Subject: VMS Quality vs. New Features (was: OpenVMS Educational Program)3 Message-ID: <ejEHLGbr27QL@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  X In article <3AAACF05.49854345@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  D >> If someone were to move to VMS only because of Unix compatibilityE >> and thereafter discover some of the good features of VMS, presences; >> of that Unix compatibility would have been a good thing.  > f> Please, please, please: don't mix marketing and technique. I was referring to "The DII COE work if done well should give us the best of both worlds - VMS *and* Unix.". I'm already suspecting that this DII COE will reduce VMS' quality - at least by offering additional ways of doing something the UNIX way and by that making the OS complexer as is could be.  F While complexity may be an enemy of quality, change is a bigger enemy.E I believe that absent a _major_ breakthrough in software testing (not D likely) that allows "something for nothing", introduction of DII COEB features to VMS will introduce defects ("bugs" for the squeamish).G But so would introduction of any new major feature, such as the abilitygF to put stacks in P2 space.  The fact that change introduces defects isF totally unrelated to whether or not the change is due to the influence of Unix.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 17:34:08 +0000n) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>*L Subject: Re: VMS Quality vs. New Features (was: OpenVMS Educational Program), Message-ID: <3AABB710.24B4A28C@infopuls.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Z > In article <3AAACF05.49854345@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > F > >> If someone were to move to VMS only because of Unix compatibilityG > >> and thereafter discover some of the good features of VMS, presencee= > >> of that Unix compatibility would have been a good thing.o > >dh> > Please, please, please: don't mix marketing and technique. I was referring to "The DII COE work if done well should give us the best of both worlds - VMS *and* Unix.". I'm already suspecting that this DII COE will reduce VMS' quality - at least by offering additional ways of doing something the UNIX way and by that making the OS complexer as is could be. > H > While complexity may be an enemy of quality, change is a bigger enemy.G > I believe that absent a _major_ breakthrough in software testing (notrF > likely) that allows "something for nothing", introduction of DII COED > features to VMS will introduce defects ("bugs" for the squeamish).I > But so would introduction of any new major feature, such as the abilityhH > to put stacks in P2 space.  The fact that change introduces defects isH > totally unrelated to whether or not the change is due to the influence
 > of Unix.   But these changes are induced by the aim to offer something what is technically not needed. This renders the DII COE as a major risk for design and implementation quality.m Adding features in the core or augmenting the architecture by architecture foreign concepts will dramatically reduce quality. The outcome might be the opposite of what most people in this NG expect who think positively about this DII COE. This could be in fact the technical death of VMS.  4 As I wrote in another post: who needs another UNIX??   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:48:47 GMTT, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> Subject: Re: VMS release dates& Message-ID: <3AAB57F1.B146BD0A@gmx.ch>   The Lord of the Rings.   D.   Martin Vorlaender wrote: >  > One OS to rule them all  > One OS to find them    v > One OS to bring them all  > And in the Darkness bind them.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:38:36 +0100i2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: VMS release dates; Message-ID: <3aab8dec.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>e  - Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch) wrote:  > Martin Vorlaender wrote: > > One OS to rule them all  > > One OS to find them    h > > One OS to bring them all" > > And in the Darkness bind them. >- > The Lord of the Rings.  M That's right. Originally by Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net>, where it readsu  + Win Three for the Elvenkings under the sky,L@ Office Ninety-Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,+ Win Nine-Five for mortal Men doomed to die,L) One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,(- In the land of Redmond where the shadows lie.s/ One Win to rule them all, One Win to find them.s8 One Win to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.- In the land of Redmond where the shadows lie.      cu,/   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deFJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:54:29 GMT-, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>+ Subject: [fun] DCL (long) minute of the dayn& Message-ID: <3AAB9F96.C556EFCE@gmx.ch>  I Today, we will see that DCL does open a new file when doing an OPEN on ane  existing PPF logical name. Look:   This is the test procedure.n   ISLKP1_mgr> ty test.comC: $ sh log sys$error               !check logical name value5 $ dir A.A                        !file does not existu8 $ define sys$error A.A           !this is my err logfile3 $ 1 error                        !generate an errors= $ write sys$error "test 1"       !try to write to err logfileu/ $ open/append sys$error A.A      !open it first>- $ write sys$error "test 2"       !write to iteM $ 2 errors                       !show that errors are still catched from DCLe5 $ dir b.b                        !file does not exista3 $ create b.b                     !create empty file.+ $ close sys$error                !close A.Ao> $ define sys$error A.A           !redefine A.A as error outputI $ open/append sys$error b.b      !open new file on same logical "pointer"aE $ write sys$error "test 3"       !(should not go to B.B). write to ita< $ 3 errors                       !generate another DCL error+ $ close sys$error                !close b.be0 $ ty a.a, b.b                    !display result   This is the exec.o   ISLKP1_mgr> set vere ISLKP1_mgr> @test  $ sh log sys$error/    "SYS$ERROR" = "_TNA128:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)0	 $ dir A.Ac! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files foundE $ define sys$error A.A	 $ 1 errorRF %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \1\ $ write sys$error "test 1"C %DCL-W-UNDFIL, file has not been opened by DCL - check logical nameiK $ open/append sys$error A.A       !note: no errors as DCL created it beforen $ write sys$error "test 2"
 $ 2 errorsF %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \2\	 $ dir b.b0! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files foundy $ create b.b $ close sys$errorE $ define sys$error A.AC $ open/append sys$error b.b       !no errors as I created it beforee $ write sys$error "test 3"
 $ 3 errorsF %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \3\ $ close sys$erroro
 $ ty a.a, b.be  F %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \1\C %DCL-W-UNDFIL, file has not been opened by DCL - check logical name  test 2F %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \2\! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files foundh  t  PROG00:[ISLK_USER.ISLK_MGR]B.B;1  n test 3F %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \3\ ISLKP1_mgr>   
 Conclusion
 ==========   (you may seat down)t   a. As always, we should rtfm:t  C http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/4506/4506pro_018.html# -, apps_using_proc_permanent_file  M (I take this opportunity to thank the AltaVista folks for saving my life with 6 AVPS installed together with the OpenVMS doc on my PC)  M b. There is a curious behaviour when we open B.B. This OPEN redirects the DCLWP error stream to B.B although A.A is already selected and assigned via sys$error.M This is not the behaviour we discussed last week for "regular files". But then	 doc says:-  H "Process-permanent files are files that remain open independent of imageJ activation and rundown. Process-permanent files are created (../..). Thus,N process-permanent files can remain open across image activations. SYS$COMMAND,I SYS$INPUT, SYS$OUTPUT, and SYS$ERROR are all opened in this manner by therO LOGINOUT command image. The DCL command OPEN also opens files in this manner." i  N So, there is a difference between sys$error PPF handling and rms PPF handling.N Remember, if I do an OPEN LOG$ TOTO.TXT, then an OPEN LOG$ TATA.TXT, all WRITE LOG$ will be done in TOTO.   c. The doc also says:,  K "1.The LOGINOUT command image, or at a later point the command interpreter, N opens or creates a file corresponding to the process's command, input, output,P and error message streams. Logical names are created in the process logical nameN table for SYS$COMMAND, SYS$INPUT, SYS$OUTPUT, and SYS$ERROR, respectively. TheO equivalence string for the logical name has a special format that indicates the@N correspondence between the logical name and the related process-permanent file (../..)    M 2.When an indirect accessor opens or creates a file specifying a logical name K that has one of these special equivalence strings, RMS recognizes this _andiN therefore_does_not_open_or_create_a_new file_. Instead, the returned value forI the internal file identifier (and later the value for the internal stream H identifier from a Connect service) is set to indicate that access to theJ associated process-permanent file is with the indirect subset of allowable functions."   L So, the third write to sys$error should have been done to A.A, shouldn't it?   D.  : PS: VMS Eng, don't change anything, I like it that way :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:32:50 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day+ Message-ID: <VA.00000305.232ae490@sture.ch>(  < In article <3AAA4F50.6B9397E6@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi wrote:. > From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms & > Subject: [fun] DCL minute of the day% > Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:59:46 GMTf >  > ISLKP1_mgr> dir toto.txt > ' > Directory PROG00:[ISLK_USER.ISLK_MGR]- > J > TOTO.TXT;1                             1/18      10-MAR-2001 16:54:53.65 >  > Total of 1 file, 1/18 blocks.C > ISLKP1_mgr> ty toto.txtEN > %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for PROG00:[ISLK_USER.ISLK_MGR]TOTO.TXT; > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found > ISLKP1_mgr>  > K > This one is an old one, but for a week-end, it may please some beginners.- >  > D. >-8 Also show us the output of SHOW SYMBOL on DIR and TY :-) ___l
 Paul Sture Switzerlandu   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:46:25 GMTe, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day% Message-ID: <3AAB5763.FA5ACBD@gmx.ch>u   ISLKP1_mgr> sh symb dir::   DIR*ECTORY == "directory /date /size=all /wid=(file=32)" ISLKP1_mgr> sh symb ty= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingA ISLKP1_mgr>   	 next try?  ;-))     Paul Sture wrote:9  : > Also show us the output of SHOW SYMBOL on DIR and TY :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:40:25 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day+ Message-ID: <VA.0000030c.23d69f3b@sture.ch>t  ; In article <3AAB5763.FA5ACBD@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi wrote:s. > From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms-* > Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day% > Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:46:25 GMTl >  > ISLKP1_mgr> sh symb dirj< >   DIR*ECTORY == "directory /date /size=all /wid=(file=32)" > ISLKP1_mgr> sh symb ty? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingn > ISLKP1_mgr>  >  > next try?x > ;-)) >  >  > Paul Sture wrote:e > < > > Also show us the output of SHOW SYMBOL on DIR and TY :-) >e Brian's suggestion :-) ___a
 Paul Sture Switzerlandl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:52:35 GMTa3 From: Carl Nelson <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu>e( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day3 Message-ID: <3AAB74EB.4F9E7A27@mcmail.maricopa.edu>    Ummm.o     I'll take a stab at it...i  - toto.txt is a file which contains the text...t  ' %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for $ PROG00:[ISLK_USER.ISLK_MGR]TOTO.TXT; -RMS-E-FNF, file not found  B ... and type and dir are doing just what you asked of them. Right?    F   We had someone who was pushing to get system privs for months beforeH he got them. He really didn't know how to use them. He just wanted to beH able to say that he had them. I pulled him aside and told him that whileH he HAD full privs, he still couldn't do everything. This seemed to alarmH him, and he asked me what he couldn't do. I told him that he couldn't doH an "exit 32" command from the dcl command line. He ran off and tried it.B Sure enough he got a "%SYSTEM-W-NOPRIV, no privilege for attemptedG operation" message. He never figured out why, either. Should never haveu had privs, IMHO.   --Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:51:27 +0100a" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day( Message-ID: <98fsis$6j6$1@news.IAEhv.nl>   Carl,a  + I'm pretty sure that is the correct answer!e   Hans  Vlemsn  ' Carl Nelson heeft geschreven in berichte* <3AAB74EB.4F9E7A27@mcmail.maricopa.edu>... >Ummm. >  >  I'll take a stab at it... >S. >toto.txt is a file which contains the text... >M( >%TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for% >PROG00:[ISLK_USER.ISLK_MGR]TOTO.TXT;9 >-RMS-E-FNF, file not foundG > C >... and type and dir are doing just what you asked of them. Right?s >  >sG >  We had someone who was pushing to get system privs for months beforeaI >he got them. He really didn't know how to use them. He just wanted to beiI >able to say that he had them. I pulled him aside and told him that while I >he HAD full privs, he still couldn't do everything. This seemed to alarm I >him, and he asked me what he couldn't do. I told him that he couldn't doKI >an "exit 32" command from the dcl command line. He ran off and tried it. C >Sure enough he got a "%SYSTEM-W-NOPRIV, no privilege for attempted1H >operation" message. He never figured out why, either. Should never have >had privs, IMHO.t >  >--Carlw >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:38:58 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)8( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day0 Message-ID: <009F8D8F.2DE3A9A7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M In article <98fsis$6j6$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:t >Carl, >., >I'm pretty sure that is the correct answer! >l >Hans  Vlems > ( >Carl Nelson heeft geschreven in bericht+ ><3AAB74EB.4F9E7A27@mcmail.maricopa.edu>...@ >>Ummm.p >> >>  I'll take a stab at it...i >>/ >>toto.txt is a file which contains the text...t >>) >>%TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching forh& >>PROG00:[ISLK_USER.ISLK_MGR]TOTO.TXT; >>-RMS-E-FNF, file not found >>D >>... and type and dir are doing just what you asked of them. Right? >> >>H >>  We had someone who was pushing to get system privs for months beforeJ >>he got them. He really didn't know how to use them. He just wanted to beJ >>able to say that he had them. I pulled him aside and told him that whileJ >>he HAD full privs, he still couldn't do everything. This seemed to alarmJ >>him, and he asked me what he couldn't do. I told him that he couldn't doJ >>an "exit 32" command from the dcl command line. He ran off and tried it.D >>Sure enough he got a "%SYSTEM-W-NOPRIV, no privilege for attemptedI >>operation" message. He never figured out why, either. Should never have  >>had privs, IMHO. >> >>--Carl >> >n >     F Gee, which is probably why he ignored posting my request.  This is an - old "VAX Magic" war story.  Nothing new here.R   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             rO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:33:21 +0100e2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day; Message-ID: <3aab8cb1.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>g  - Didier Morandi (Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch) wrote:  > Paul Sture wrote:c< > > Also show us the output of SHOW SYMBOL on DIR and TY :-) >s > ISLKP1_mgr> sh symb dirh< >   DIR*ECTORY == "directory /date /size=all /wid=(file=32)" > ISLKP1_mgr> sh symb ty? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingr > ISLKP1_mgr>  >l > next try?  > ;-))   Spoiler ahead:       $ dir toto.txt! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files foundl $ def/user sys$error toto.txtt
 $ ty toto.txtdD %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]TOTO.TXT; -RMS-E-FNF, file not found $ dir toto.txt   Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]  
 TOTO.TXT;1   Total of 1 file.
 $ ty toto.txtmD %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]TOTO.TXT; -RMS-E-FNF, file not found $o   :-)I   cu,e   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.desJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:40:49 GMT , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day& Message-ID: <3AAB8E53.F4244112@gmx.ch>   You win.* Meet you at today's DCL minute of the day.   D.   Carl Nelson wrote: >  > Ummm.F >  >   I'll take a stab at it...  > / > toto.txt is a file which contains the text...e > ) > %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching forM& > PROG00:[ISLK_USER.ISLK_MGR]TOTO.TXT; > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found > D > ... and type and dir are doing just what you asked of them. Right?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:05:21 GMTi, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day& Message-ID: <3AABBE41.8DA2215B@gmx.ch>   You win too. :-)u   Martin Vorlaender wrote:   > $ def/user sys$error toto.txtb > $ ty toto.txtoF > %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]TOTO.TXT; > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found > $ dir toto.txt >   > Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR] >  > TOTO.TXT;1 >  > Total of 1 file. > $ ty toto.txthF > %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]TOTO.TXT; > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:32:48 +0100o  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>* Subject: Re: [Q] subroutine library source+ Message-ID: <VA.000002ff.232adafb@sture.ch>o  < In article <3AA924D0.D528595F@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi wrote:. > From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmst( > Subject: [Q] subroutine library source% > Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:46:26 GMTE > K > Where can I find a machine readable copy of the pp. 347 to 354 of the DCLc > "bible" 2nd edition, please? > L Sorry, but not enough clues there. Which version of VMS? What's the precise 2 name of the book? What topic is on pp. 347 to 354? ___c
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:28:36 GMTI, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>* Subject: Re: [Q] subroutine library source& Message-ID: <3AAB6136.6001C194@gmx.ch>  < Paul, it's time to meet. You ask too much easy questions :-)  J I am talking of the 2nd edition of the Guide For DTL programming Ooops DCLM programming ! :-) written by Paul Anagnostopoulos and Hoff, edited by Digitalt Press:  I http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555581919/qid=982065494/sr=1-1/ -- ref=sc_b_1/104-7285552-6939109  M (the "-" at the end of the first line is of course the continuation character 9 and should be removed before cutpasting the wrapped url).4  : pp. 347 to 354 is a general purpose DCL library featuring:   ask question lookup for a keyword error signalling' unique name generation (for temp files)d symbol validityn  P I don't want to retype all the stuff. I am working for the PCSI Wizard tool (seeM http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vmsinstal) on a professional powerful DCL error O handler (the really new stuff will be the handling of all error levels providedh* by DCL and RMS (rmssts, rmsstv, IOSB etc).  N To me, the more time passes, the more we old DCL timmers will be requested forN DCL cleaning, documentation, debugging, and even development (why not) of very old operation environments.   O I am currently contracting for SwissCom http://www.swisscom.ch/gd/gd-en.html onsO procedures written eight years ago. I discovered that I spend more time runningaN after DCL, logical names and ACL errors after my changes than actually working6 on the new architecture I am supposed to put in place.  P I promise, when the final tests from the Customer are passed, that I will submitO my dev env to the Djesys Software Tools Clearinghouse (http://www.djesys.com/).-  
 Gimme a call.r: (and give me your advice on my new ShockWave page, please)   D.   Paul Sture wrote:  > M > Sorry, but not enough clues there. Which version of VMS? What's the precise 4 > name of the book? What topic is on pp. 347 to 354?   -- s6 MORANDI Consultants, Swiss Quality Computer Consulting6 avenue de Granges-Paccot 2, 1700 Fribourg  Switzerland6     Tel: +41.79.705.46.70 - Fax: +41.26.465.13.58 (KO)J  Visit our Web site at http://didier.morandi.free.fr/index_us.html * NEW *   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:32:48 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>0 Subject: Re: [Q] tape allocated and process gone+ Message-ID: <VA.00000300.232adc9f@sture.ch>r  < In article <3AA92F02.87FAB7F7@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi wrote:. > From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsb. > Subject: [Q] tape allocated and process gone% > Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:29:59 GMTo > P > Hello, I address to you for a problem which we from time to time encounter and2 > for which I am sure, some among you already met. > P > One of our technician "coldly arrived" have make the error to make a del/entryO > on a batch which backed up some files on a TZ87. Result of this manipulation, Q > the TZ87 have a owner process id (sh dev/full) which correspond with no processcQ > of the machine, and one can no more thus make some mount on this device because=Q > it be already allocated with this Pid, and one can not either make some stop/id ( > on this pid because it exists no more. >R   A couple of thoughts:e  O That suggests that the process is waiting for a tape operation to complete. Is f, there a tape in the drive, and is it online?  Q If you are running in a cluster, are you sure you are looking for the process on   the correct node?t  L > We have thus to solve us with a shutdown/reboot whereas we try to beat ourP > record of longevity which is for the 60 days moment (it is not terrible I knowM > but we stop our machines previously every month for problems of maintenance  > inverter). >      ___r
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:21:08 GMTt, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>1 Subject: [request] %JBC-I-QUENOTMOD should be -W-e& Message-ID: <3AABC1F5.FC9D5F30@gmx.ch>  G Testing my error handler, I suddenly figured out why I didn't catch the2N "modifications not made to running queue" error. Just because it is neither an error, nor a warning.i  M May I suggest to the honourable assembly of VMS Gurus here a vote in order tocM request that it becomes a warning? My DCL SET QUEUE command didn't succeed (IuE know why) and I have no way to be notified of this (unless I test allm# informational messages in the log).0  M Here is what I get in the error log. If it is neither an error nor a warning,hP why is it recorded in sys$error? In the example below, the first "message" can'tL be trapped to add the file name and line number. The second set of messages,: actually three, was trapped via a on warning then gosub...  9 %JBC-I-QUENOTMOD, modifications not made to running queue$3 %SUBMIT-F-INVLOGFIL, invalid log file specificatione -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found " -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file? [from SYS$SYSDEVICE:[MORANDI]ISLK_STARTUP.POST_COM;22 line 473]d  O (Hmmm reading the post again before posting it gives me an idea. I can test thee$ severity level after ALL DCL lines.)   D. --   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.140 ************************