1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 14 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 145       Contents:' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip? ' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip? # Re: ...and  COMPAQ wins... by TKO ! % Re: 9GB System Disk for an 8GB ES40 ? % Re: 9GB System Disk for an 8GB ES40 ?  Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news  Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news  BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX fixed Re: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX fixed. Re: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX from ACCVIO, known bug?* BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX from ACCVIO, known bug? Re: bliss install joke :-)P Cannot issue any system() calls from a C program running under a captive account. Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing). RE: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing) Re: DCL minute of the day  Re: DCL minute of the day  Re: DCL minute of the day $ Re: Deassigning system wide logicals DELIVER accvio on V7.2-1 Directory structures RE: Directory structures Re: Directory structures9 Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS 9 Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) EdP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Pro$ Re: Help with VMS alpha installation$ Re: Help with VMS alpha installation3 Re: Help with VMS alpha installation (kind of long) 3 Re: Help with VMS alpha installation (kind of long)   Low cost server - Sun, of course$ Re: Low cost server - Sun, of course Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations 8 Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"8 Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"8 Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"8 Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"8 Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"8 Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed" Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.1 ! Re: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.1 ! Re: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.1  Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.1  Re: OpenVMS Educational Program  Re: OpenVMS Educational Program  Re: OpenVMS Educational Program  Re: OpenVMS Educational Program   Re: OVMS VAX/Alpha compatibility  Re: OVMS VAX/Alpha compatibility  Re: OVMS VAX/Alpha compatibility  Re: OVMS VAX/Alpha compatibility  Re: Possible security hole in..." Read a file starting with file id?& Re: Read a file starting with file id?) TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD - Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD - Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD  Re: TCPware SMTP Time ZoneD Re: VMS Quality vs. New Features (was: OpenVMS Educational Progra	m)* Volume Shadowing merge rates on Big Disks?  Re: [SURVEY] Info-VAX suscribers  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 14:06:23 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) 0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?3 Message-ID: <NzG2RTUMrRUI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <QUtr6.8$na.430@news.enterprise.net>, "NewsReader" <NewsReader@NotOnYourLife.Com> writes:L > I read the tech .pdfs for Charon & it says for PC memory emulation is 16Mb( > max. Surely this is a little limiting?  L The current version emulates a MicroVAX-II. The MV2 was limited to 16 MB. So0 it's as limiting as the hardware it's emulating.  H An MV3000 is supposed to be in the works. And some folks probably need aF 6000 or 7000 class emulator. I wonder if they can do SMP emulation :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:45:26 -0500 - From: daytripper <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> 0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?8 Message-ID: <ubmtat85tpuienmgcou1mt35apeajdhn3n@4ax.com>  L On 14 Mar 2001 00:06:00 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  < >kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:G >> The lack of parity in Cray designs goes back at least to his days at G >> CDC in the early 60s. [The first machine I used in college was a CDC ? >> 6000, one of his cool early designs. RISC, functional units, D >> pipelining, etc were all present in this design, WAY ahead of itsD >> time.] Any error detection or correction slowed down the machine,G >> and his goal was always "full speed ahead". Cost was never a factor,  >> and reliability rarely was. > F >See the early Alpha papers. *Correction* costs time, *detection* need >not.   G Don't know what the papers said, but it is true that one can optimize a I Hamming code read path such that data correctors propagate one gate delay ! faster than the error syndromes.     /daytripper    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:49:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: ...and  COMPAQ wins... by TKO !, Message-ID: <3AAEC008.65A10004@videotron.ca>   CSABA HARANGOZO wrote:, >         P.S. : It might be Tru64 though...L > > The Government of Quebec recently chose Compaq over IBM, HP (teamed withK > > HDS) and Sun (teamed with EMC) for Project Gires, the biggest worldwide / > > Oracle applications implementation to date.   O True64. It was announced during a February presentation to customers by Compaq.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:06:27 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: 9GB System Disk for an 8GB ES40 ?0 Message-ID: <nZvr6.87$G_1.5251@news.cpqcorp.net>  N In article <98lgav$rlq@news-central.tiac.net>, "Kark" <kark@itsww.com> writes:  O :Does anyone think a 9GB StorageWorks disk would be too small to contain the OS N :and the paging file for an 8GB memory option?  I'm kind of stuck with the 9GB4 :disk if I want to do RAID1 with a KZPAC controller.  E   Depending on I/O, you'll probably want to spread the OpenVMS files  E   and the paging and swapping files across several spindles, but yes, G   you can make this fit -- with one disk, you will not be able to page  H   out large tracts of memory to disk and you will have to configure the E   system for partial system dumps, of course.  With additional disks, A   you can configure for larger memory loads and for larger dumps.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:19:36 -0600 % From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> . Subject: Re: 9GB System Disk for an 8GB ES40 ?' Message-ID: <3AAEE348.2E7E74A5@isd.net>    Kark wrote:  >  > Hi,  > P > Does anyone think a 9GB StorageWorks disk would be too small to contain the OSO > and the paging file for an 8GB memory option?  I'm kind of stuck with the 9GB 5 > disk if I want to do RAID1 with a KZPAC controller.  >  > TIA, >  > - K   C I have to admit that when I configured an ES40 with 4GB RAM that my B organization purchased I went with 18GB system disks because I wasF concerned about having enough room for page and swap files. I know youD can put them on another disk but I didn't want to be forced to. WithH hindsight always being 20/20 I can say now that the 18GB disks proved toG be over kill.  This is of course application dependent and your mileage 	 may vary.  --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:28:07 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>& Subject: Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news5 Message-ID: <1010313192507.3712B-100000@Ives.egh.com>   5 On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:   < > Or DECsystem 20 via a wireless lan and a terminal server ?  ; Hmm.  Is LAT bridgeable over a sub-space radio link?  Since = sub-space is clearly FTL (because they can carry on real-time : conversations with Star Fleet HQ), the latencies should be& okay.  Or is the bandwidth too narrow?    > Bill Gunshannon wrote/quoted : > >>>  > |>K > |> Or an actual VT100 in a Star Trek Next Generation Shuttlecraft (in the  > back). > 9 > Yes,, but what are they connected to??  VAX or PDP-11??  > <<<    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 22:15:48 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news3 Message-ID: <owf7WPK0eppo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <OFF10EF53E.8C8EACE1-ON88256A0E.00641706@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: > I > ....but how sad would that be? I refuse to sit there with a tape in the M > machine and my hand on the remote on the offchance an ad comes on, so I can   > check the model of a computer.  - ReplayTV records continuously to a hard disk.     Rewind and freeze-frame is easy.  < Copying the recording to tape is supposedly straightforward,% but I have never had occasion to try.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 16:55:47 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX fixed 3 Message-ID: <s0wfn37JjMbx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <%Mvr6.86$G_1.5251@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  > H >   First check for ECOs -- I cannot locate the earlier portions of thisL >   thread -- for whichever OpenVMS version is involved.  Then try matching L >   the process quotas with the recommended values, then try increasing the K >   process PGFLQUOTA, then try lowering the PQL_MWSQUOTA parameter.  (Then  >   contact the CSC...)   9 The specific error was mentioned in the ECOs, but I tried F VMS721_BACKUP-V0100 which mentions other ACCVIOs, VMS721_DRIVER-V0200,& and VMS721_MOUNT96-V0200 (thanks Rob).  E After that BACKUP reported ALLOCMEM instead of ACCVIO.  Help/message  F pointed me to VIRTUALPAGECNT, not a likely culprit (7.2-1 on Alpha).  F Google found one of your postings that lead me to PGFLQUOTA as a more  likely candidate.   E BACKUP is now happily verifying the second disk's image, yesterday it  couldn't do any.  ? Can we expect the help/message data base to get updated in 7.3?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:50:58 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: Re: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX fixed 0 Message-ID: <mvxr6.95$G_1.5821@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <s0wfn37JjMbx@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: @ :Can we expect the help/message data base to get updated in 7.3?  D   There have been a gazillion updates to the messages, but I do not A   know if this is one of them.  The VIRTUALPAGECNT stuff was only A   recently identified, particularly in the context of BACKUP when @   booted from the bootable environment CD-ROM media with certainC   combinations of disks -- the error had to do with the size of one D   of the core files on the disk structure of larger volumes, and an *   associated access failure within BACKUP.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:53:15 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX from ACCVIO, known bug? 0 Message-ID: <%Mvr6.86$G_1.5251@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <KlP6OrHefJ0O@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   E :More on this, with /since and not /image we get non-zero data in the * :ACCVIO, and don't get BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX:  F   First check for ECOs -- I cannot locate the earlier portions of thisJ   thread -- for whichever OpenVMS version is involved.  Then try matching J   the process quotas with the recommended values, then try increasing the I   process PGFLQUOTA, then try lowering the PQL_MWSQUOTA parameter.  (Then    contact the CSC...)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:11:02 -0500 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>3 Subject: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX from ACCVIO, known bug? 7 Message-ID: <200103132311_MC2-C8BE-967F@compuserve.com>   G         BACKUP is extremely sensitive to resources controlled by SYSGEN J parameters and SYSUAF quotas and limits.  The SYSTEM account is not set u= p J properly for use by BACKUP.  There are very specific relationships betwee= n G the parameters that need to be satisfied for BACKUP to work well, or at  all!  J         Hoff!!  If you want to use this in the next Freeware distribution= , J be my guest.  Compaq seems to be making the information difficult to find=  $ if you don't have access to DSNlink.   $! MAKE_BACKUP_ACCT.COM  $!# $! Copyright 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999  $! Richard B. Gilbert  $! <DRAGON@CompuServe.Com>F $!  A license to use and distribute this software is granted under the following terms: $!  1.  You may not sell it ' $!  2.  You may not claim you wrote it. J $!  3.  You may not remove or alter my Copyright notice or these terms an= d  conditions. F $!  4.  You may not modify it unless you make the modifications freely available to all otherJ $!        licensees.  Modifications must be made in such a way that it is=   clear who wrote what. J $!  5.  This software is offered without warranty of any kind whatever.  =   If it's broken, you fix it!  $! $!G $! Writes a DCL command procedure to create an account for use with the F $! BACKUP utility.  It calculates appropriate values of the UAF QuotasJ $! and Limits using rules of thumb from the article "Setting Up Parameter= s H $! For the VMS BACKUP Operation (V5.2 or later)" which is available fromG $! DSNlink.  Some of these values may have to be hand tuned for optimum  $! results.  $!E $!      02-DEC-1996     - Added prompt for the number of backup jobs. 9 $!      11-MAR-1997     - Fixed to calculate WSQUOTA <=3D G $!                      - MIN ((VIRUTALPAGECNT, PAGEFILE_FREE) - 3000). E $!                      - Translated Alpha PAGEFILE_FREE to pagelets. < $!      17-JUN-1999     - Create logicals in executive mode.D $!      14-SEP-1999     - Apply Andy Goldstein's recommendations for, $!                        calculating DIOLM. $!7 $ READ /PROMPT=3D"Maximum Simultaneous BACKUP Jobs? " - '         SYS$COMMAND     MAX_BACKUP_JOBS  $ WSMAX =3D F$GETSYI("WSMAX") / $ VIRTUALPAGECNT =3D F$GETSYI("VIRTUALPAGECNT") - $ PAGEFILE_FREE =3D F$GETSYI("PAGEFILE_FREE") ! $ IF F$GETSYI("ARCH_TYPE") .EQ. 2  $       THENJ $               PAGEFILE_FREE =3D PAGEFILE_FREE * F$GETSYI("PAGE_SIZE") /=  512
 $       ENDIF 3 $ PAGEFILE_FREE =3D PAGEFILE_FREE / MAX_BACKUP_JOBS & $ IF VIRTUALPAGECNT .GT. PAGEFILE_FREE $       THEN) $               PGFLQUO =3D PAGEFILE_FREE  $       ELSE* $               PGFLQUO =3D VIRTUALPAGECNT
 $       ENDIF  $ WSDEF =3D 1024 $ WSQUOTA =3D WSMAX > $ IF WSQUOTA .GT. (PGFLQUO - 3000) THEN WSQUOTA=3DPGFLQUO-3000 $ WSEXTENT =3D WSMAX% $ FILLM =3D F$GETSYI("CHANNELCNT")-15  $!? $! Calculate DIOLM.  The maximum usable value of DIOLM is 32757 D $! (required to allow ASTLM=3D32767).  The minimum value of DIOLM isJ $! MAX(4096, FILLM*3).  The rule that DIOLM =3D WSQUOTA / BLOCKSIZE is du= e E $! to Andy Goldstein <Goldstein@star.zko.dec.com>.  The rule given in D $! the System Manager's Manual (and other places) yields the MINIMUMD $! rather than the recommended value and fails for very large values $! of WSQUOTA. $!J $! Assume BLOCKSIZE (in blocks) =3D32256/512 or 63.  The minimum is 4 and=  F $! the maximum is 127.  A blocksize of 32256 is the recommended value. $! $ BLOCKSIZE =3D 32256/512  $ DIOLM =3D WSQUOTA / BLOCKSIZEo( $ IF DIOLM .GT. 32757 THEN DIOLM=3D32757- $! This calculates a minimum value for DIOLM.  $ IF 3*FILLM .LE. 4096 $       THEN" $               MIN_DIOLM =3D 4096 $       ELSE% $               MIN_DIOLM =3D 3*FILLMf
 $       ENDIFP0 $ IF DIOLM .LT. MIN_DIOLM THEN DIOLM=3DMIN_DIOLM: $ ASTLM =3D DIOLM + 10                    ! Minimum value.: $ BYTLM =3D (256*FILLM) + (6*DIOLM)       ! Minimum value. $ BIOLM =3D FILLMr9 $ ENQLM =3D FILLM + 2                     ! ENQLM > FILLMa $!+ $! Now write the ADD command for authorize.d $!" $ OPEN /WRITE FILE BACKUP_ACCT.COMJ $ WRITE FILE "$! Suggested UAF Parameters for the account running BACKUP = on ''F$GETSYI("NODENAME")'." J $ WRITE FILE "$! We assume ''MAX_BACKUP_JOBS' simultaneous backup jobs an= d  the SYSGEN parameters in"n5 $ WRITE FILE "$! effect at ''F$CVTIME(,"ABSOLUTE",)'"  $!F $!  Make the User Authorization File (UAF) accessable.  We use F$PARSE4 $! to allow for a logical name pointing to the file. $!H $ WRITE FILE "$ ASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE ''F$PARSE("SYSUAF", "SYS$SYSTEM", ".DAT")'   SYSUAF"> $ WRITE FILE "$ ASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE ''F$PARSE("RIGHTSLIST",$ "SYS$SYSTEM", ".DAT")'   RIGHTSLIST"J $ WRITE FILE "$ ASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE ''F$PARSE("NETPROXY", "SYS$SYSTEM"= ,e ".DAT")' NETPROXY"J $ WRITE FILE "$ ASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE ''F$PARSE("NET$PROXY", "SYS$SYSTEM= ", ".DAT")' NET$PROXY" ) $ WRITE FILE "$ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:AUTHORIZE"n $ GOSUB GENERATE_PASSWORDS= $ WRITE FILE "ADD BACKUP /UIC=3D[16,1] /PASSWORD=3D''PWD3' -"F= $ WRITE FILE "/DEVICE=3DSYS$SYSROOT: /DIRECTORY=3D[SYSMGR] -"nF $ WRITE FILE "/FILLM=3D''FILLM' /BIOLM=3D''BIOLM' /DIOLM=3D''DIOLM' -"F $ WRITE FILE "/ASTLM=3D''ASTLM' /ENQLM=3D''ENQLM' /BYTLM=3D''BYTLM' -"8 $ WRITE FILE "/WSDEF=3D''WSDEF' /WSQUOTA=3D''WSQUOTA' -"< $ WRITE FILE "/WSEXTENT=3D''WSEXTENT' /PGFLQUO=3D''PGFLQUO'"H $ WRITE FILE "MODIFY BACKUP /PRIVILEGE=3D(OPER,READALL,SYSPRV,VOLPRO) -"D $ WRITE FILE "/DEFPRIV=3DSYSPRV /FLAGS=3DNODISUSER /NOINTERACTIVE -"# $ WRITE FILE "/NOREMOTE /NONETWORK" 0 $ WRITE FILE "$ DEASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE SYSUAF"4 $ WRITE FILE "$ DEASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE RIGHTSLIST"2 $ WRITE FILE "$ DEASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE NETPROXY"3 $ WRITE FILE "$ DEASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE NET$PROXY"i $ CLOSE FILE $ EXIT $! $GENERATE_PASSWORDS:F $! Privs are a temporary workaround for a bug in OpenVMS/Alpha V6.2 -- V7.0.o, $ SET PROCESS /PRIVILEGE =3D (LOG_IO,PHY_IO) $ MYPID =3D F$GETJPI("", "PID")r! $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO GEN_PWD_DONEs7 $ DEFINE /USER_MODE SYS$OUTPUT SYS$SCRATCH:A'MYPID'.TMPe $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO ERROR_EXITk $ SET PASSWORD /GENERATE=3D8 INVALID  $GEN_PWD_DONE:: $ IF F$SEARCH("SYS$SCRATCH:A''MYPID'.TMP") .EQS. "" THEN -         GOTO ERROR_EXIT-1 $ SET PROTECTION=3D(G,W) SYS$SCRATCH:A'MYPID'.TMP( $ON ERROR THEN GOTO NO_CHANGES
 $ PWD1 =3D "" 
 $ PWD2 =3D "" 
 $ PWD3 =3D ""G
 $ PWD4 =3D ""r
 $ PWD5 =3D ""o $ PWDN =3D 1 $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO NO_CHANGESi- $ OPEN/READ PWD_FILE SYS$SCRATCH:A'MYPID'.TMP.
 $PWD_LOOP:) $ READ /END=3DEND_OF_FILE PWD_FILE RECORDa! $ PWD =3D F$ELEMENT(0," ",RECORD) $ $ IF PWD .EQS. "" THEN GOTO PWD_LOOP $ PWD'PWDN' =3D PWDs $ SHOW SYMBOL PWD'PWDN'I $ PWDN =3D PWDN + 1 " $IF PWDN .LE. 5 THEN GOTO PWD_LOOP
 $END_OF_FILE:  $ CLOSE PWD_FILE# $ DELETE SYS$SCRATCH:A'MYPID'.TMP;*  $ERROR_EXIT: $ RETURN      # Message text written by Bob Koehlere >f&    OpenVMS Alpha 7.2-1, DEC 3000 M600S    MOZILLA M0.8          =      BNU V2.1              =      CXML V3.59-1          =      DECNET_OSI V7.2-1     =      DWMOTIF V1.2-5        =      FORRTL V7.3-1         =      FORTRAN V7.3-1        =      HYPERHELP V5.1-2      =      JAVA V1.1-85          =      JAVA122 V1.2-21       =      JAVAAPIDOC122 V1.2-21 =      MACRO64 V1.2          =      NS_NAV_EXPORT V3.0-3  =      ODL V2.1              =      OPENVMS V7.2-1        =      BLISS Alpha 18-028i    Compaq C V6.2-008    Multinet 4.3A
    CMS 4.0
    MMS V3.3-4e
    DIA 029    Debug64 V7.2-00Ri    =                            =  	    ECO's:        VMS721_ACRTL-V0200       VMS721_PCSI-V0100t       VMS721_RTPAD-V0100       VMS721_UPDATE-V0100s       VMS721-MIME-V0100e       VMS721_PTHREAD-V0100       CMS721_SYS-V0100  ; Recently I'm getting on all my backups (all disks, not just  SYS$SYSDEVICE):c  J %BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX, error processing index file on SYS$SYSDEVICE:, RVN 1=  ? -SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=3D00, virtual =p  C    address=3D0000000000000000, PC=3D0000000000000000, PS=3D00000000p  2 BACKUP is run under the SYSTEM account as follows:  B    backup/noalias/record/verify/ignore=3D(interlock,label)/image -9                  /label=3D(09MAR0,09MAR1,09MAR2,09MAR3) --4                    SYS$SYSDEVICE: mkb100:BASYS.bck -J                 /block_size=3D16384/nocrc/norewind/media_format=3Dcompact= ionb  F I can't find this ACCVIO on Notes (EISNER) or Deja news (Google).  TheF latest ECOs for BACKUP on ftp.support.compaq.com don't seem to address this.   D I'm going to verify that no privileges get turned off, and I may tryB backing out the latest couple software updates as it seems to be =  < coincident with them (VMS721_RTPAD-V0100 and MOZILLA_M0008).   Known bug?  Fix? <o   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 22:22:23 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)q# Subject: Re: bliss install joke :-)@3 Message-ID: <WCZYsC8kDRbG@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  U In article <3AAE5BAE.8113F0CA@iee.org>, "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:o  - > In fact, at one stage I thought the VMS EngI, > source code control environment tools were( > going to appear on the Freeware CD ...  7 I believe it is in there, called VDE, but requires Rdb.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:26:07 -0500n$ From: Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca>Y Subject: Cannot issue any system() calls from a C program running under a captive accountr8 Message-ID: <giotatsp5aes3i43eh8ln2k6qt4aha27jg@4ax.com>   Hi folks  F We are porting over an application coded in C from a DEC VAX VMS 5.5-2D to a Compaq Alpha DS20E OpenVMS 7.1-2.  Our users accounts are setupD as captive accounts.  One of the things that we were able to performF under the old environment was to issue a system() call from within the< application to spawn a subprocess.  However, under the newerF environment, we are now getting an error return code from the system()D command.   Checking the manuals, it says that we are able to issue aD spawn command through the /TRUSTED flag.  We tried this and it still@ fails.  Issuing any system calls, for example, a simple DIR also failed.G  > The funny thing is that running a DCL script under the captiveC account, we can issue any system calls with no problems.  It's onlyGC under the C application where this fails.  Is there a compiler flag,F that we should be using?  The Compaq C Compiler is version 6.2-003 and@ we are using the /STANDARD=VAXC flag for the porting from VAX to COMPAQ.I  * Anyone has this working please contact me.   Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:24:20 -0600i7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>87 Subject: Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing)i- Message-ID: <3AAED654.E34A03B0@earthlink.net>   F Had to post this to the newsgroup. Your return e-mail address is bogusF and i didn't want to take the time to figure out how to demangle it...  ( At 12:00 PM 03/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: >sH >Quoted from a newsreader that actually has the article, but posted from0 >another from which I can actually post a reply! >2 >> Message 23 in thread 8 >> From: David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@earthlink.net); >> Subject: Re: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing) h >> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms! >> Date: 2001-03-09 19:47:12 PST t > ) >> afeldman@elsewhere.gfigroup.com wrote:d >> > > > [snip] C >> > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in0+ >> > > > <3A971A4A.83B74895@earthlink.net>: 	 >> [snip] K >> Well, yes, it was invented hundreds of years ago. "Science" was invented J >> thousands of years ago. I don't see anyone abandoning the sciences just! >> because they're "archiac". :-)  >eJ >It depends on what you call "science". "Modern science" started somewhereE >around the 1600's. Before and after Isaac Newton is an extremely bigWJ >difference. I'll take your smiley above to mean that your point is silly. >E- >Hey, maybe you want us to go back to cubits?n  & What's a cubit? (Old Bill Cosby joke.)  	 >> [snip]rK >> Well, remember too, o modern one, that the 12-hour clock has been aroundn# >                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^aG >So much for your request for not attacking posters. And I was actuallya- >defending your argument! Gee, thanks a lot. .  F Well, it's not an attack, believe it or not. What I find silly is thatG young(er) people are so quick to dismiss that which has its root in the A years before their own birth just because it's "old". It has beeneE speculated that GM is dropping the Oldsmobile product line because ofiC the first syllable of the name - "old". If we do not learn from thepE mistakes of the past, we are doomed to repeat them. By dismissing theiD past out of hand, we condemn ourselves to repeat the mistakes of our
 predecessors.   H >> for a very long time, also. Back then, the questions of night and dayG >> were a little more obvious than in today's global community ("Night? K >> Where? and "Day? Where?"). The need for 24-hour time is relatively new - 0 >> since the dawn of global navigation, I think. >hA >What's your point? Magellan circled the earth quite a while ago.I  E ...and long *AFTER* the invention of what we now know as the "clock".  What's *YOUR* point?  
 > Besides,M >we're not talking about night and day. We're also not talking about the needtL >for time zones. We're talking about how to interpret 12:00 AM and 12:00 PM.$ >Try to stick to the subject, okay?    Funny. Thought I had...y  M >And if you're still having problems distinguishing night from day, give me a * >call and I'll tell you for a nominal sum. >  >> -K >> The ideas of "midnight" (it's not, except for a brief period either sideeJ >> of either equinox in some places) and "noon" (from the old English word >rL >Your taking the word "midnight" a little too literally. And you're actuallyN >wrong even in the nitpicking sense. The equation of time (as in the analemma,N >that figure-8 that desribes the sun's track if you take a photograph of it atK >the same time every day) means that midnight actually occurs a few minutespN >late or early on the equinoxes (I don't have a chart of the analemma handy to. >look up when it's early and when it's late).  >t@ >Actually, this depends on how you define "middle of the night".  = Rather literally: the mid-point between dusk and first light.    > The argument IJ >just gave would define "middle of the night" as 12 hours after noon whereH >noon is determined from "local time". (You could even nitpick *that* byN >saying that half a day has passed so that "true midnight" has shifted ever soM >slightly, but let's not go there!) Local time is determined by where the sun J >actually is. But because of the equation of time, the sun gets as much asM >approx. 15 minutes slow or fast. This is due to both the tilt of the earth'seI >axis (23.5 degrees) and the fact that the earth's orbit is very slightly-L >elliptical. The tilt causes the sun to move eastward relative to the "fixedN >stars" at an uneven rate. The earth's being in an elliptical orbit means thatN >the earth speeds up and slows down slightly which has a smaller effect on theG >sun's motion against the fixed stars. The deviation of local time fromb3 >uniform time is descrbied by the equation of time.> > J >Obviously, your knowledge of astronomy is not even at the amateur level.    Not worthy of comment.  I >> for the ninth hour since daybreak/sunrise - does the sun rise at 03:00CG >> (a.m.) where you are?) are of little value, really. Noon is a momentn >l9 >You're just proving my point about archaic definitions. e   How so?e  I >> (choose a length). Midnight is frequently confused between "the end ofn9 >> (x)day" (24:00) and "the beginning of (y)day" (00:00).t > K >I believe I said all that. What about A.D. and B.C.? Historians agree that-4 >Jesus was born somewhere between maybe 2 and 6 B.C.  ? Historians also agree that the reason for this is the lack of aSG consistent definition of calendars and time. Seems our problems are nots" so different from "archiac" times.   > So the whole A.D./B.C.  : Anno Domini (Year of (Our) Lord) = (the) Common Era (C.E.)  + Before Christ = Before the Common Era (BCE)   B >system falls apart using literal interpretations. And the literal9 >interpretation of A.D. depends on your religous beliefs.e  H ...or cultural/genetic heritage. What year is it in the Jewish calendar?! ...Chinese Calendar? ...(others)?n   > The "sensible"N >interpretation of A.D. and B.C. is that the current year is A.D. 2001 and youM >count backwards from there, with 1 B.C. being the year before A.D. 1, 2 B.C. K >being the year before 1 B.C., etc. The sensible interpretation of 12am and!H >12pm is 0000 and 1200, respectively. *** This is what everyone is usingE >anyway. *** (I'm just using A.D./B.C. to illustrate the absurdity ofcN >insisting on overly literal interpretations of things like AM/PM, etc., so it >*is* relevant.) >9K >> Anyway, this is rather an old thread and most folks have forgotten it or ' >> have added it to their kill filters.w > : > Well, obviously, it didn't make into *your* kill filter!  ' ...because you sent it to me by e-mail!t  B Are you trying to take debate lessons from Bill Todd or something?A Don't! You've seen what he does when HE's backed into a corner...s   -- k David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:13:19 -0600 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>t7 Subject: RE: Dates (was Re: OpenVMS and Supercomputing)vL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD5464@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@earthlink.net]  D > >system falls apart using literal interpretations. And the literal; > >interpretation of A.D. depends on your religous beliefs.A  : > ...or cultural/genetic heritage. What year is it in the  > Jewish calendar?# > ...Chinese Calendar? ...(others)?    5761.n	 ...Snake.n  & (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. :)   Regards,   ChrisI  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developeri Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");A 'G   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:27:49 GMTI, From: "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com>" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day6 Message-ID: <phwr6.175364$Ki.591605@quark.idirect.com>  9 "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in message_  news:3AAE1FE5.7D47DBB1@gmx.ch... > ISLKP1_dmo> set ver  > ISLKP1_dmo> ty A.A > $ setU- > ISLKP1_dmo> set watch file/class=(attr,maj)  > ISLKP1_dmo> setT > _What:  ^Z > ISLKP1_dmo> @A.A > $ set4B > %DCL-W-INSFPRM, missing command parameters - supply all required
 parameters > ISLKP1_dmo> @A.AF > $ assign/user sys$command sys$input           ! <<== this line added > $ setxB > %DCL-W-INSFPRM, missing command parameters - supply all required
 parameters > ISLKP1_dmo> dir a.a I > %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: Record attributes ISLKV62_TOOLS.DIR;1d > (6675,109,0) > ../..eI > %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: F64 caching options A.A;2 (9595,49,0)'< > %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup A.A;2 (9595,49,0) Status: 00000001 >e) > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[ISLKV62_TOOLS]  > +sF > %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: Record attributes A.A;1 (393,68,0) > ../..n; > %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup A.A;1 (393,68,0) Status: 000000016D > A.A;2                                        1/18      13-MAR-2001 14:05:32.93LD > A.A;1                                        1/18      27-FEB-2001 22:18:47.32l >f  > Total of 2 files, 2/36 blocks. >  > Question 1G > why does the access to the A.A procedure when @ed didn't trig the XQP : > (I am not sure this is good English, but you understand) >O > Question 2> > why does the SET image not accept the sys$input redirection.  J It is not the SET image, it is DCL attempting to determine which SET imageE to activate (SETP0, SETWATCH etc.).  Since DCL executes at supervisorw> level, I would guess that the assign/user is of no value here.   ScottC >  > Question 35 > how can I have DCL ask "_What: " within a procedureK >=  > (the reason for this is below) >R > ISLKP1_dmo> ty set.com > $ set = "set"i > $ if p1 .eqs. "" > $ then( > $    assign/user sys$command sys$input > $    goto GO	 > $ endif" > $ p1 = f$edit(p1,"lowercase")U% > $ if p1 .eqs. "dfe" then p1 = "def". > $GO:4 > $ set 'p1' 'p2' 'p3' 'p4' 'p5' 'p6' 'p7' 'p8' 'p9' > $ exit   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:57:02 GMTM= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)'" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day0 Message-ID: <009F8F67.16F58E89@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <phwr6.175364$Ki.591605@quark.idirect.com>, "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> writes:T >_: >"Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in message! >news:3AAE1FE5.7D47DBB1@gmx.ch...T >> ISLKP1_dmo> set ver >> ISLKP1_dmo> ty A.AR >> $ set. >> ISLKP1_dmo> set watch file/class=(attr,maj) >> ISLKP1_dmo> set
 >> _What:  ^ZO >> ISLKP1_dmo> @A.AG >> $ setC >> %DCL-W-INSFPRM, missing command parameters - supply all required  >parameters" >> ISLKP1_dmo> @A.AQG >> $ assign/user sys$command sys$input           ! <<== this line addedO >> $ setC >> %DCL-W-INSFPRM, missing command parameters - supply all required" >parametersE >> ISLKP1_dmo> dir a.aJ >> %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: Record attributes ISLKV62_TOOLS.DIR;1 >> (6675,109,0)N >> ../..J >> %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: F64 caching options A.A;2 (9595,49,0)= >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup A.A;2 (9595,49,0) Status: 00000001L >>* >> Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[ISLKV62_TOOLS] >> +G >> %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: Record attributes A.A;1 (393,68,0)  >> ../..< >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup A.A;1 (393,68,0) Status: 00000001E >> A.A;2                                        1/18      13-MAR-2001O >14:05:32.93E >> A.A;1                                        1/18      27-FEB-2001  >22:18:47.32 >>! >> Total of 2 files, 2/36 blocks.e >>
 >> Question 1OH >> why does the access to the A.A procedure when @ed didn't trig the XQP; >> (I am not sure this is good English, but you understand)  >>
 >> Question 2-? >> why does the SET image not accept the sys$input redirection.H >GK >It is not the SET image, it is DCL attempting to determine which SET imager% >to activate (SETP0, SETWATCH etc.). R   Correct.  " > Since DCL executes at supervisor? >level, I would guess that the assign/user is of no value here._  E It is in a procedure.  DCL will not prompt unless the procedure levelGE is 0.  It assumes that the line "$ SET" is incomplete and signals theD %DCL-W-INSFPRM error.E   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM.            RO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:10:33 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) " Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day0 Message-ID: <009F8F68.FA0B436A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <009F8F67.16F58E89@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:f >In article <phwr6.175364$Ki.591605@quark.idirect.com>, "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> writes: >>; >>"Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in message " >>news:3AAE1FE5.7D47DBB1@gmx.ch... >>> ISLKP1_dmo> set verA >>> ISLKP1_dmo> ty A.A	 >>> $ set / >>> ISLKP1_dmo> set watch file/class=(attr,maj)M >>> ISLKP1_dmo> set  >>> _What:  ^Z >>> ISLKP1_dmo> @A.A	 >>> $ set D >>> %DCL-W-INSFPRM, missing command parameters - supply all required >>parameters >>> ISLKP1_dmo> @A.AH >>> $ assign/user sys$command sys$input           ! <<== this line added	 >>> $ setCD >>> %DCL-W-INSFPRM, missing command parameters - supply all required >>parameters >>> ISLKP1_dmo> dir a.a K >>> %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: Record attributes ISLKV62_TOOLS.DIR;10 >>> (6675,109,0)	 >>> ../..KK >>> %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: F64 caching options A.A;2 (9595,49,0)r> >>> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup A.A;2 (9595,49,0) Status: 00000001 >>>M+ >>> Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[ISLKV62_TOOLS]  >>> +SH >>> %XQP, Thread #0, Read attributes: Record attributes A.A;1 (393,68,0)	 >>> ../..a= >>> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup A.A;1 (393,68,0) Status: 00000001EF >>> A.A;2                                        1/18      13-MAR-2001
 >>14:05:32.93nF >>> A.A;1                                        1/18      27-FEB-2001
 >>22:18:47.32d >>>y" >>> Total of 2 files, 2/36 blocks. >>>a >>> Question 1I >>> why does the access to the A.A procedure when @ed didn't trig the XQP8< >>> (I am not sure this is good English, but you understand) >>>e >>> Question 2@ >>> why does the SET image not accept the sys$input redirection. >>L >>It is not the SET image, it is DCL attempting to determine which SET image& >>to activate (SETP0, SETWATCH etc.).  >1	 >Correct.r > # >> Since DCL executes at supervisor @ >>level, I would guess that the assign/user is of no value here. >cF >It is in a procedure.  DCL will not prompt unless the procedure levelF >is 0.  It assumes that the line "$ SET" is incomplete and signals the >%DCL-W-INSFPRM error. >  >--eP >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >           P >city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.  G Just to follow up on my last statement, in [...DCL.LIS]PARSENT.LIS is  o the following comment:  M ; DO NOT PROMPT IF WE ARE PARSING A DCL COMMAND WITHIN A COMMAND PROCEDURE OR K ; A BATCH JOB.  IF WE ARE PARSING A USER COMMAND, THEN DO NOT PROMPT IF THE ) ; USER HAS NOT SUPPLIED A PROMPT ROUTINE.o  G The code in this module then tests the PROCLEVEL and if it is not zero,  DCL returns INSFPRM.  G So, the only way to get DCL to prompt for further input to the SET com- G mand is to implement a hack like that which I previously posted in thisw# thread to zero the procedure level.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             GO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:10:36 -0500t2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>- Subject: Re: Deassigning system wide logicalss7 Message-ID: <200103132310_MC2-C8BE-967D@compuserve.com>g  # Message text written by Jouk Jansen  >Hi all,  F  How can I deassign for a single process a system-wide defined logicalE (i.e. X11)? All other processes on the machine should be unaffected.<d   I don't think you can!  F If you are tranlating the logical yourself, specify a table other thanH LNM$SYSTEM.  You could mask all the system logicals from your process byF redefining the way that your process searches for logicals but I would1 expect that to have severe negative consequences!   J You could simply redefine "X11" for that one process, in the process tabl= e.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 14:00:49 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)a! Subject: DELIVER accvio on V7.2-1s3 Message-ID: <OYO3hi9OGyQp@eisner.encompasserve.org>R  ? I installed DELIVER from the freeware CD on my AlphaStation 200t= 4/233 running VMS 7.2-1.  When I try to send email via DECnetp: from another node to an account that has forwarding set to, DELIVER%account I get the following error...  3 %MAIL-E-SENDERR, error sending to user FAQ at NODEA>< %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual : address=00000000000103EF, PC=000000007B6D3E70, PS=0000001B  A Any idea what is causing this error?  Anyone have DELIVER working  on Alpha VMS 7.2-1?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:14:04 -0000e From: "Jim" <j@h.com>w Subject: Directory structurese3 Message-ID: <98m632$lvj$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>p  L Is there a product that will map your vms directory structure and present itI in a GUI similar to Windows explorer. The system is an Alpha 4100 running G OpenVMS V7.2-1. This would be helpful to new users coming from Windows.^ Thanks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:47:02 -0500d: From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com>! Subject: RE: Directory structuresaK Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D6DBED2@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>a   > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim [mailto:j@h.com]' > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 5:14 PM  > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  > Subject: Directory structuress > @ > Is there a product that will map your vms directory structure  > and present it? > in a GUI similar to Windows explorer. The system is an Alpha e > 4100 running< > OpenVMS V7.2-1. This would be helpful to new users coming  > from Windows.s	 > Thanks.n  E Consider anyone of a number of companies that have NFS client/server oC software.  At my site, we use Process Software's (www.process.com) eE Multinet as a NFS server, and NetManage (www.netmanage.com) ChameleonaH NFS as a NFS client.  I think NetManage's newer product is ViewNow UNIX.  B Compaq has Compaq TCP/IP services (aka UCX), which can do similar.  H One exports a NFS share/directory on OpenVMS, and on the PC side within G Explore you map a drive to that share.  Double click on the mapped DOS o1 drive and you see your OpenVMS files in Explorer.a   :) jck
 John Koska   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:52:45 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Directory structureso0 Message-ID: <1xxr6.96$G_1.5821@news.cpqcorp.net>  K In article <98m632$lvj$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>, "Jim" <j@h.com> writes:xM :Is there a product that will map your vms directory structure and present itrJ :in a GUI similar to Windows explorer. The system is an Alpha 4100 runningH :OpenVMS V7.2-1. This would be helpful to new users coming from Windows.  @   The DECwindows GUI has had this mechanism for eons, or are you@   comparing non-GUI access to the Microsoft Windows GUI?  If so,B   then there are a couple of freeware packages around that provideA   text-oriented displays similar to what is available for MS-DOS.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Mar 2001 20:18:01 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) B Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS, Message-ID: <98lv9p$1pp9$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ) In article <3AAE30C5.20D69B88@bbc.co.uk>, 0  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes: |> f |> h/ |> However, 1-JAN-19970 is a unix thing anyway.a  D Say what??  And where precisely does Unix store the date in anythingA even vaguelly resembling that format??  It sure doesn't output itnA that way.  For those who may be interested regarding Unix and theaG real Y2K problem.  I have recently revived Ultrix-11 V3.1 and Ultrix-32oC V3.0.  The only date problem is the inability to type in the numbereA 2000 or higher as a year as the date command only has a two digitaB year for a parameter.  However, by setting the date to just beforeF midnight of the last day of the year, one can make the year roll over.C And at that point, setting the month, day, hour and minute give youtB the correct, Y2K correct date including valid years.  The same canD not be said of other DEC OSes of the same era, like RSTS, RT or RSX.E I don't have them to try, but I assume early VMS also had no problem.e  @ (I relaize the above is a hack.  But it is an immediate solutionA that does not require resorting to the sources.  Having installedsF the sources, I will now fix it properly by modifying the date command.C The point was that it is not the OS that has a problem but a singlet	 utility.)i   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   u   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:32:50 GMTi+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>.B Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <3AAEA889.5F50F214@ins-msi.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > + > In article <3AAE30C5.20D69B88@bbc.co.uk>,C2 >  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes: > |> > |>1 > |> However, 1-JAN-19970 is a unix thing anyway.e > F > Say what??  And where precisely does Unix store the date in anythingC > even vaguelly resembling that format??  It sure doesn't output itr  D It's not the format... it's the value. 1-Jan-1970 is a unix thing...* 17-Nov-1858 is a (borrowed) VMS thing! 8-)  C > that way.  For those who may be interested regarding Unix and the I > real Y2K problem.  I have recently revived Ultrix-11 V3.1 and Ultrix-32eE > V3.0.  The only date problem is the inability to type in the number C > 2000 or higher as a year as the date command only has a two digit'D > year for a parameter.  However, by setting the date to just beforeH > midnight of the last day of the year, one can make the year roll over.E > And at that point, setting the month, day, hour and minute give youSD > the correct, Y2K correct date including valid years.  The same canF > not be said of other DEC OSes of the same era, like RSTS, RT or RSX.G > I don't have them to try, but I assume early VMS also had no problem.t > B > (I relaize the above is a hack.  But it is an immediate solutionC > that does not require resorting to the sources.  Having installedtH > the sources, I will now fix it properly by modifying the date command.E > The point was that it is not the OS that has a problem but a single- > utility.)s >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>    
 Jeff Campbell? n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Mar 2001 20:29:24 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)pY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) Ed\, Message-ID: <98lvv4$1pp9$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>  D In article <OF09C3AB29.DFEC57D4-ON88256A0E.0062BCBA@foundation.com>,$  Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: |> i4 |> 19970? I don't think Unix will last that long....  A Anybody here remember the September 1992 issue of Byte magazine??i  & Front cover headline:  "Is Unix Dead?"  9 And Unix's demise has been predicted time and time again.K, And it is still going, stronger than ever.    7 To bad someone doesn't write a similar article for VMS.Z Any press is better than none!!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:57:20 +0000u) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Pro , Message-ID: <3AAEB3E0.285370BF@infopuls.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 4 > Not to speak for the US DOD, OpenVMS, or Compaq... > I > DII/COE is an attempt to create a magic bullet that allows code re-use.LG > This would allow code that was written for mission X to be reused for N > mission Y.  This hasn't really happened yet.  None the least of the problemsJ > is figuring out how those developing the code for mission X will get anyL > benefit (read: profit) by allowing their code to be re-used for some other@ > mission.  So in current use, you end up with Segments that areJ > architecture-specific (which you have anyway, since binary compatabilityL > isn't a goal), and which use vendor specific features.  BUT these guys areH > serious, and eventually there will be a lot of COE software in the DOD > world. > L > The unfortunate aspect of DII/COE is that the design center of those doingL > the development was Sun/Solaris (being practical, they also had to includeG > Windows - which has it's own features and non-features).  So what COEmI > provides is a common look & feel for the application environment, whichmK > tends to drill down all the way to the UNIX command line interfaces.  You L > also have some "standards" - like POSIX and JAVA - which if people writingA > new segments adhere to, would allow source level compatability.  > L > VMS COE (the product) is not something that will be generally available toM > *anyone* off the street.  It is a product that includes the OS - as well as.: > the COE environment and other required layered products. > M > Long term, the OS capabilities that were required, will show up in the baseiJ > OS.  The intent is to make the C interfaces on VMS compatable with POSIXN > (more likely long term - UNIX98 or LINUX).  This will make porting code fromL > UNIX/Linux a simpler task - no different than any generic UNIX->UNIX port.K > In addition, there will also be a shell environment that would allow UNIX M > users to get something more familiar than DCL.  Lastly are things like filecG > system modifications that allow UNIX semantics and syntax to be used.N > N > This does not "replace" anything that VMS currently does, or even weaken it.M > All the capabilities are incremental, or supplemental.  But as always, poorSJ > UNIX code will work poorly, and good UNIX code will work well.  I expectM > that when someone wants the code to "mesh" into a VMS environment, they may)J > have work to do beyond a simple port - or they can choose to live with a > UNIX fish in a VMS pond. >  >  _Fred >   h I'm shocked. It's by far worse than I thought. This could be an important step to the real death of VMS.` - The business effect is *very* doubtful if these COE additions are only there for DoD projects. - Writing SW for a niche is the stupidest thing you can do. SW should be sold to as many customers as possible because copying SW is almost free.t - Offering bad ways like UNIX shells to accomplish tasks is a safe method to kill the productivity of VMS. Today we know how things are solved properly. Tomorrow we will never know.r  v I'm too tired to continue this list. Every educated engineer will understand that this is a major attempt to kill VMS. My hope and wish: the good VMS engineers stay with the normal version. The COE version will be so crappy and full of bugs that it will never be usable.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:20:34 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: Help with VMS alpha installatione0 Message-ID: <mivr6.83$G_1.5317@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <rdeininger-1303010117370001@user-2ive7ps.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:-  K :I'm in the process of putting a fresh installation of VMS alpha 7.1-2 ontoi5 :a DEC 3000-300 system.  This system has no CD drive.f  J   You will need to relocate the contents of the CD-ROM installation media J   onto a local or served disk that the satellite can be bootstrapped from,C   or you will need to reconfigure the satellite's bootserver(s) to cI   bootstrap the satellite from the CD-ROM media served from the cluster, dJ   or you will need to temporarily relocate a CD-ROM drive to the DEC 3000    model 300 system.  e  J   Of these, I generally prefer to load the distribution CD-ROM media onto I   a local (temporarily spare) disk (for speed), or move the CD-ROM drive  )   onto the local system (for simplicity).m  E   Once you have the installation media available on a device that the C   target system can bootstrap from, bootstrap it.  Then follow the d+   standard OpenVMS installation directions.o  I   And get yourself a CD-ROM you can carry around and connect as required.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:21:21 -0500a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Help with VMS alpha installation L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1403010121210001@user-2ive60v.dialup.mindspring.com>  0 In article <mivr6.83$G_1.5317@news.cpqcorp.net>,$ hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:   > In articleA <rdeininger-1303010117370001@user-2ive7ps.dialup.mindspring.com>,w4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > M > :I'm in the process of putting a fresh installation of VMS alpha 7.1-2 ontoa7 > :a DEC 3000-300 system.  This system has no CD drive.  > L >   You will need to relocate the contents of the CD-ROM installation media L >   onto a local or served disk that the satellite can be bootstrapped from,   This is what I ended up doing.  E >   or you will need to reconfigure the satellite's bootserver(s) to nK >   bootstrap the satellite from the CD-ROM media served from the cluster, "  I I thought about this, but I didn't see my way clear to the end.  How doeseD one make a boot server send out something other than it's own systemH disk?  I've done it when remote-booting a firmware update image (on this6 same 3000-300 in fact), but that's only a single file.  ? Hmm.  Now I recall that a VAX can serve an alpha system disk to H satellites, or vice versa.  There must be a big clue there.  I suspect I. need a return trip to the MOP documentation...  L >   or you will need to temporarily relocate a CD-ROM drive to the DEC 3000  >   model 300 system.     G The easy-to-grab off-brand CD drive wasn't bootable, so I didn't pursueo this in the present case.o    L >   Of these, I generally prefer to load the distribution CD-ROM media onto K >   a local (temporarily spare) disk (for speed), or move the CD-ROM drive -+ >   onto the local system (for simplicity).A  1 Yup, it's easy once you abandon the wrong method.i   Thanks for the comments.   -- c Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:18:27 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)< Subject: Re: Help with VMS alpha installation (kind of long)0 Message-ID: <7our6.74$G_1.5287@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <rdeininger-1303011143530001@user-2ivebn3.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  ..E >> If this is more than a on-time "experiment", you would probably be E >> well advised to install a CD or an extra disk on the Alpha system.n >NH >It's a real-work system that will go off and start it's own cluster.  IJ >just didn't want to cold-boot the whole configuration, when I have a niceG >cluster set up that can be replicated and tweeked.  Especially with no  >local CD-drive.  H Please DO have a CD-ROM on at least one node -- preferably at least two  and -- all nodes is best.0   >Thanks for the pointers.r   You are most welcome.:   -- RK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:09:34 -0500r2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)< Subject: Re: Help with VMS alpha installation (kind of long)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1403010109340001@user-2ive60v.dialup.mindspring.com>  0 In article <7our6.74$G_1.5287@news.cpqcorp.net>,' hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net wrote:-     > J > Please DO have a CD-ROM on at least one node -- preferably at least two  > and -- all nodes is best.r   If wishes were horses...  H It's hard to get the bean counters to shell out for a device that's only used in 2 situations:   / 1) Every couple of years during an upgrade, andr@ 2) When there's a catastrophy that has to be fixed right away.    8 Even an old used drive is not considered cost-effective.  I I keep at least one drive within sight, but the disruption of grabbing itm+ for this installation made me try method b.n  J Anyway, a BACKUP/IMAGE of the installation CD to a spare local disk (whileG booted as a satellite) gave me a good way to run the installer, and the-, installation ran seamlessly from that point.   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Mar 2001 21:46:35 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)) Subject: Low cost server - Sun, of courser, Message-ID: <98m4fr$19t@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  E Sun has on their site a motherboard called the AX1105-500.  It's veryoE similar to the Blade 100 except it uses registered memory (instead ofNI unbuffered) has 2 ethernet ports (instead of 1) and is sold "loose" as anrE ATX board (instead of in a pizza box).  Supposedly it starts shippingmH mid-April.  Nu Horizons, one of the companies that resells it, quoted anI approximate price of $610 for the motherboard with processor and $135 foriJ the UPKAX100-AVMOD option that gives video and sound.  Starting from this E motherboard and using standard components which you could order in 20pK minutes at a site like CDW people will be able to put together a nice smallK Sun system.   H Compaq is never going to give us the long desired "PC VMS", or even "PC E Alpha", but the days of "PC Solaris" have clearly arrived.  With thisuJ system and the new Sun Blade 100 the price premium for Solaris hardware isH now only a few hundred dollars more than for a PC.  And they'll give youD Solaris, whereas you have to buy W2K, so the price differential to aK running system is really very small - it's essentially a dead heat. Ok, theVJ Sun won't be as fast as the Intel solution of the same cost, but the pointJ is that you can now deploy a new Sun for the same cost as a new PC.  Would# that the same were true for Alpha. U   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edua? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech vJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:53:38 GMTn+ From: "Darren Peacock" <daz005@hotmail.com>-- Subject: Re: Low cost server - Sun, of course ? Message-ID: <Sxxr6.18684$0N3.115421@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   < I think you miss the big picture-- the big business picture.J Sun rely on turning over low cost box, with spares from whatever inventoryH they can lay their hands, on, with a very low margin. The Blade contains# technology , older than my toaster.u  H To grow Sun must continue to focus on putting out more and more low costJ boxes. Look at the spread of the boxes they sell ,based on Market figures.B They are not in the Middle and Upper tier boxes, Mission critical.I Wherever you get your revenue from is the focus of the organisation. Yourx2 Sales force is focused there that s where you are.  G Buy a cheap box from Sun and look at the upgrade part prices,  they area completely disproportionate.J If the amount of boxes decrease in a quarter or two, their will be sheding	 big time.e  
 Prediction   I say keep the focusF         1) Middle and Upper Tier         (High Margin) This funds your Sales/Pre Sales/Marketing H         2) Bring on COE                 Software Vendor will move , with Software Vendors new customersJ         3) Aim for the Bottom end , after Desktop apps have been ported by the Linux push,o  H The Bottom is dominated by buyers , who one and only one buying decisionE COST.  This area does not fund any long term strategy not even bumperp	 Stickers.m      ? "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messages& news:98m4fr$19t@gap.cco.caltech.edu...G > Sun has on their site a motherboard called the AX1105-500.  It's very.G > similar to the Blade 100 except it uses registered memory (instead offK > unbuffered) has 2 ethernet ports (instead of 1) and is sold "loose" as annG > ATX board (instead of in a pizza box).  Supposedly it starts shippinguJ > mid-April.  Nu Horizons, one of the companies that resells it, quoted anK > approximate price of $610 for the motherboard with processor and $135 forDK > the UPKAX100-AVMOD option that gives video and sound.  Starting from thiseG > motherboard and using standard components which you could order in 20uG > minutes at a site like CDW people will be able to put together a nicee small 
 > Sun system.  >rI > Compaq is never going to give us the long desired "PC VMS", or even "PCgG > Alpha", but the days of "PC Solaris" have clearly arrived.  With this L > system and the new Sun Blade 100 the price premium for Solaris hardware isJ > now only a few hundred dollars more than for a PC.  And they'll give youF > Solaris, whereas you have to buy W2K, so the price differential to aI > running system is really very small - it's essentially a dead heat. Ok,e the L > Sun won't be as fast as the Intel solution of the same cost, but the pointL > is that you can now deploy a new Sun for the same cost as a new PC.  Would$ > that the same were true for Alpha. >a
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edun@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechL > **************************************************************************L > *                                RIP VMS                                 *L > **************************************************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 02:28:44 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations- Message-ID: <87n1aped5v.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  / Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:    > David Mathog wrote:   ? > > In article <3AAA817B.22285D5C@infopuls.com>, Christof Brassc  > > <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  E > > >Probably it's exactly people like you at universities who helpede< > > >in abandoning VMS by using the wrong way to support it.  D > > What the #$(@&#! are you talking about?  There was no conspiracy> > > in academia to abandon VMS, at least not initially.  And I > > wouldn't describeD  C > Oh really, you mean "OK, we need to make this code portable so we)E > can run it on unix as well as IBM mainframes and VMS, but then once3A > we've got it running on unix we will give up making it portableHC > anymore except possibly between unices because we're too thick toaE > read the VMS linker manual" isn't a conspiracy?  This was the sceneg > in HEP late 80's early 90's.  B Now hand up the person other than Tim who has heard of STARLINK...? This is a mongo collection of software for astronomers, TeX ford) instance is just one small package of it.r  C In 90, it ran on VMS, Unixes and prob a few others. VMS was KILLED.o@ Support pulled, shutdowns mandated. I guess Tim can provide moreA details than I. In fact, the Starlink Newsletter From RAL had then" elimination of VMS as a lead item.  ? And it is still going on. Not as blatent perhaps, but every day-# another package drops off the edge.1  @ BTW, Bill and Christof: You seem to be in violent agreement, but7 talking about different subjects. Well, near agreement.s   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.k@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 15:35:53 -06001 From: Graham Allan <allan@physics.umn.edu.nospam> " Subject: Re: Low cost workstations0 Message-ID: <w53ae6pe4hy.fsf@lanark.spa.umn.edu>  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   K > |> You can _easily_ get a functional alpha workstation with a monitor for,J > |> $250 to $300, complete.  It won't be a recent model.  It won't have a* > |> warranty, but will be well broken in. > L > Do you honestly think that the beancounters see it that way??  You can buyJ > old junk or you can buy new equipment.  One has a warranty and the otherJ > can't be repaired for less than full replacement cost.  This isn't goingO > into my basement, it's going into what constitutes the offices of a business.   I I find it strange that your beancounters won't let you buy used equipmentvL with no warranty but they're perfectly happy to let you run all your servers on free open source software!e  ; Of course we all know that beancounters are strange folk...d   Graham   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 12:57:40 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)O" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <brMywRVfl3lN@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  M In article <rdeininger-1303011314390001@user-2ivebn3.dialup.mindspring.com>, i7    rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:t  C >> It's been suggested one could use the OPENVMS-USERS pak from the F >> CSLG here ( but then the system(s) would have to be included in the; >> CSLG license "headcount", so they're no longer "free" ).a > J > I'm 2 or 3 layers away from folks who deal with CSLG, so I may have thisK > wrong. There's supposedly a clause that lets you use 5 (or 10, I've heardtJ > both) workstation-class systems and count them as one unit on the CSLG. H > So a 10-unit CSLG would work for 50 (or 100) workstations systems.  Is > this real? > G    Yes, it's something like that. In my specific case I want to put VMSeH on 3 Alphaserver 1000s that were donated to the CSc deparment though, soJ the workstation count is not relevant. Adding 3 servers to CSLG would pushL me to the next pricing tier and increase the annual cost by several thousandH dollars ( not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but too much when theH department isn't really sure they want to use VMS for anything anyway ).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:43:29 -0600t7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations+ Message-ID: <3AAEB0A1.9A0597@earthlink.net>W   Robert Deininger wrote:s > J > In article <98lghr$1ioj$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote: > = > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  > > |>= > > |> > Or why they have to make the machine unavailable foryR > > |> > 12 hours or more for backups (which is no differnt than being down as you > > |> > can't use it.). > > |>G > > |> Because it's the only way to do a truly "clean" backup, or fully.+ > > |> defragment the disks, even with DFO.a > >hF > > But other VMS admins must not agree as 100% uptime is considered aI > > requirement.  Not meaning to sound confrontational, but can't you seeu > > the double standard here?? > L > Requirements vary by site, obviously.  Some require 100% uptime, and thoseH > sites will adopt strategies that allow faster backups.  I know this isG > possible in VMS, and I suppose it is in many unixes as well.  David'seI > standard + someone else's standard doesn't make a "double standard", itf  > makes two different standards. > I > BTW, I disagree with David about defragmenting.  Off-line defragging is G > required to defrag the index file, and perhaps any files that you can K > never close in normal operations.  But this should be a one-time cure for K > a historically mismanaged disk.  If this is an ongoing problem, it pointstJ > to a management gap.  A site where uptime is important shouldn't operate > this way.   & "Shouldn't" - operative keyword there.  H ...but you may still be required to guarantee a 100% recoverable backup.H "Stand-alone" is the only (supported) way to do that. That said, I never> had any problem with DR tests after splitting HSJ mirror-sets.   -- m David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged..   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 10:44:38 -08008 From: Matthew Economou <meconomou@cardinalsolutions.com>A Subject: Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"-( Message-ID: <98lpqm03uk@drn.newsguy.com>  D In article <98kelp$maj$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu says...  7 > Register a license PAK that covers DECWindows Motif.    M This page (http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/show_license.html) claims to listiK the layered products the Hobbyist program gives me, but there is no link to N create the license PAKs.  Do I just issue "LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF" and giveO it the info from my base license (the one I got in email), or will just issuingfI "LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA" automatically create all the other PAKs?y  K I didn't see anything related to the Hobbyist Program licensing in the FAQ,t which is why I ask.s  O Thanks you for all your help.  I'll try the conversational boot tonight, and ifaP that doesn't work, I'll re-install VMS without the PAKs (as another suggested in* private email) and see where that gets me.  
 Kind regards,l	 #\Matthewe   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:08:27 -0800n! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comwA Subject: Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"wD Message-ID: <OF95B6572A.B429A781-ON88256A0E.006E8950@foundation.com>  J At Montagar there's an option to get the hobbyist layered product licencesK right next to the main VMS one. That's where the Motif licence lurks, alongc with all the other good stuff.   Shane           I Matthew Economou <meconomou@cardinalsolutions.com> on 03/13/2001 10:44:38t AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv cc:t  B Subject:  Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"    D In article <98kelp$maj$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu says...  6 > Register a license PAK that covers DECWindows Motif.  H This page (http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/show_license.html) claims to listK the layered products the Hobbyist program gives me, but there is no link to I create the license PAKs.  Do I just issue "LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF" andc giveG it the info from my base license (the one I got in email), or will just- issuing I "LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA" automatically create all the other PAKs?r  K I didn't see anything related to the Hobbyist Program licensing in the FAQ,s which is why I ask..  H Thanks you for all your help.  I'll try the conversational boot tonight, and ifC that doesn't work, I'll re-install VMS without the PAKs (as anothers suggested in* private email) and see where that gets me.  
 Kind regards,b	 #\Matthew    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:38:54 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>tA Subject: Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"c) Message-ID: <3AAE855E.D0E66462@rdrop.com>s  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > L > At Montagar there's an option to get the hobbyist layered product licencesM > right next to the main VMS one. That's where the Motif licence lurks, along   > with all the other good stuff.  @ A suggestion:  Register UCX & MOTIF; configure TCP/IP and start.@ Edit the license file you get to comment out the licenses you've@ installed (and add a SET NOON at the top) then FTP it up to your? system and run it.  Beats the stuffing out of dinking all those- checksums in by hand...1   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:08:53 +0000e) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>lA Subject: Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"-, Message-ID: <3AAEB695.40E1EC05@infopuls.com>   Matthew Economou wrote:o > Q > I've installed OpenVMS 7.2 on my AlphaStation 200 4/233, thanks to the hobbyistnI > program.  During installation, I typed in my license info as suggested,rK > successfully installed the operating system (taking mostly defaults), anduK > restarted.  The system went through AUTOGEN and rebooted into DECwindows.s > Q > When I try to log in as SYSTEM, I get the error "LMF license check has failed"..Q > I don't understand.  According to the documentation I've read, if the licensingnD > is incorrect, I should be able to log in on the console as SYSTEM. > G > 1. Does anyone have any suggestions for what I should try to do next?nM > Unfortunately, the license is definitely valid because I wasn't prompted torK > re-type any of the licensing information during the installation process.- > R > 2. Is there a way to hotkey back to text-mode, ala CTRL-ALT-F1 under XFree86?  IC > get the feeling that DECwindows and OPA0: are not the same thing.v > O > 3. Could I have mistyped my serial number when registering with DECUS/Compaq?cH > One of the characters could be an I or a 1 on the label on my machine. > N > 4. In the marketing literature, the AlphaStation 200 is listed as supportingQ > OpenVMS, but the installation documentation only mentions the AlphaStation 205.  > + > I've always wanted to run VMS.  Am I SOL?  >  > Kind regards,- > #\Matthewr  Been there, done that. Basically it was very easy with my system (no conversational boot) to prevent DECwindows/Motif to bring up the login dialog box. I typed serveral times Ctrl-Y just before the DECwindows/Motif startup began. Then I logged in on the console which was still in some sort of character mode. Unfortunately the system didn't recognise what terminal type my graphics console was. So the cursor and screen control sequences didn't work.   I don't know of a way to kill this X11 prompt other than to do a login via a serial line and then kill this process (worked very well with my machine). The serial ports are normally configured to react with a prompt message if a terminal is attaches. Then you should be able to log in.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:34:48 GMTu2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)A Subject: Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed"s1 Message-ID: <I0zr6.101$G_1.5839@news.cpqcorp.net>u  c In article <98lpqm03uk@drn.newsguy.com>, Matthew Economou <meconomou@cardinalsolutions.com> writes:fJ :Thanks you for all your help.  I'll try the conversational boot tonight, L :and if that doesn't work, I'll re-install VMS without the PAKs (as another 8 :suggested in private email) and see where that gets me.     No need to reinstall.*  E   Boot OpenVMS conversationally, select minimal startup, and register1   the licenses.3  I   Follow steps one and two in the description in the OpenVMS FAQ section eG   on resetting the SYSTEM username's password -- up through getting to iG   the SYSBOOT prompt.  Once at the SYSBOOT prompt, enter the following t   three commands:u       SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"     SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0     CONTINUE  E   You will eventually end up with the startup process logging out andoF   a minimally configured OpenVMS environment -- only the core devices H   will be configured and DECwindows will not start on the main display, I   for instance.  Log in on the console and register the licenses.  There tH   are ways to avoid rebooting now (by bringing up components manually), .   but it will be easiest now to simply reboot.  E   As others have mentioned, you can also log in on the console serialtD   line, if a serial terminal is available.  Details on setting up anG   "alternate console" on your system are listed in the OpenVMS FAQ, in     sections ALPHA7 and VAX10.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 18:38:21 -08008 From: Matthew Economou <meconomou@cardinalsolutions.com>A Subject: Re: New OpenVMS install - "LMF license check has failed".' Message-ID: <98mlit0fk@drn.newsguy.com>9   Thank you all for your help!  O I've finally figured out how to get the layered products licenses from MontagaraN (dummy me, I didn't think to go back to the "$license register" page), and I'mN in the process of configuring TCP/IP so I can FTP the rest of the license file over.   : Damn, OpenVMS is so cool.  Thanks for all your help, guys!  	 #\Matthew, (one happy little camper)r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 04:20:30 GMTh2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>& Subject: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.16 Message-ID: <ikCr6.11634$a3.23580@typhoon.aracnet.com>  J Out of curiosity, is there an affordable way for a Hobbyist to get OpenVMSH 7.2-1 or TCPIP 5.1 for the Alpha?  The current Hobbyist kit is about twoF years old, and is starting to be a little long in the tooth.  The onlyJ option I see is the "OpenVMS Alpha Software Layered Products and Operating@ System Library Package", but at $1258, that's not affordable :^(  L Basically I *really* need TCPIP 5.1 for the Anti-Spam features, however, I'd; also like to also have the benefit of the patches in 7.2-1.   H It would be nice if OpenVMS had a Hobbyist Kit like Tru64 does.  You can: even upgrade from V5 Hobbyist to V5.1 Hobbyist with Tru64!   			Zanet   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:23:28 -0500e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>* Subject: Re: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.15 Message-ID: <1010314001821.3369A-100000@Ives.egh.com>s  ) On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote:C  L > Out of curiosity, is there an affordable way for a Hobbyist to get OpenVMSJ > 7.2-1 or TCPIP 5.1 for the Alpha?  The current Hobbyist kit is about twoH > years old, and is starting to be a little long in the tooth.  The onlyL > option I see is the "OpenVMS Alpha Software Layered Products and OperatingB > System Library Package", but at $1258, that's not affordable :^( > N > Basically I *really* need TCPIP 5.1 for the Anti-Spam features, however, I'd= > also like to also have the benefit of the patches in 7.2-1.  > J > It would be nice if OpenVMS had a Hobbyist Kit like Tru64 does.  You can< > even upgrade from V5 Hobbyist to V5.1 Hobbyist with Tru64! > 	 > 			Zanes  B 1) I think you can still get a V7.3-FT2 SDK for about $40.  It has TCPIP 5.1 on it.8 2) Form a pool with other hobbyists to buy a shared kit. 3) Borrow a kit from work.  I (I was specifically informed, on the news group, so it must be true, thatyH option 3 is completely legal.  If that's the case, then option 2 must be legal too.)   C Out of curiousity, does anyone know how many hobbyist licenses havew been issued?   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:01:00 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>* Subject: Re: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.16 Message-ID: <wODr6.11636$a3.23747@typhoon.aracnet.com>  ! John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:nD > 1) I think you can still get a V7.3-FT2 SDK for about $40.  It has > TCPIP 5.1 on it.  H I'd just asked about TCPIP in the fieldtest newsgroup.  It looks like itH doesn't have the full version.  It's listed as T5.1, and since even as aK Hobbyist I've got test and production systems I really don't want to run FTaL software on my production system :^)  Especially as its main use seems to be as my home mailserver.  : > 2) Form a pool with other hobbyists to buy a shared kit.  L I'd not even considered this one.  Of course as I only know of one other VMS: hobbyist in my area I don't think this is a good solution.   > 3) Borrow a kit from work.  K > (I was specifically informed, on the news group, so it must be true, thattJ > option 3 is completely legal.  If that's the case, then option 2 must be
 > legal too.)r  L Actually this, at least at one time was on the Hobbyist web page I believe. 2 Unfortunatly I don't have access to it at work :^(  E > Out of curiousity, does anyone know how many hobbyist licenses haven > been issued?  A I think the real question would be how many different people havecD registered Hobbyist license.  I know I've licensed several differentH machines several times over the years (the license only being good for a year is a royal pain).   			Zaney   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:44:00 -0600 (CST)a From: sms@antinode.org& Subject: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.1) Message-ID: <01031322440008@antinode.org>   2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>  L > Out of curiosity, is there an affordable way for a Hobbyist to get OpenVMS# > 7.2-1 or TCPIP 5.1 for the Alpha?   E    If there is one, it would be news to me.  (Welcome news, in fact.)   ) >   The current Hobbyist kit is about twokE > years old, and is starting to be a little long in the tooth.  [...]2  ?    I agree.  VMS V7.3 and TCPIP V5.1 seem to offer a convenientu8 opportunity for a new kit.  (What's Compaq C up to now?)  J > It would be nice if OpenVMS had a Hobbyist Kit like Tru64 does.  You can< > even upgrade from V5 Hobbyist to V5.1 Hobbyist with Tru64!  6    Also true.  For those who have not recently visitedG "http://tru64unix.compaq.com/noncommercial-unix/", the first-time price H is $99.  The V5.1 upgrade kit is $39.  The kit contents appear to be the same, namely CD-ROMs:   =    1 OS                                 2 Associated ProductsyH    1 Software Documentation             1 Open Source Internet Solutions
    1 Firmware   D and a couple of handy quick installation guides, and non-terminatingG PAKs for OSF-BASE, OSF-USR, OSF-SVR, and OSF-DEV, which seem to cover a  lot.  E    It's a "Technology Enthusiast Product" which offers enough for thea9 money to generate a little enthusiasm for the technology.   H    The Tru64 home page ("http://tru64unix.compaq.com/") looks pretty bad1 using Netscape 3.03, by the way, but it's usable.g  H    I probably won't switch antinode.org from VMS to Tru64 any time soon,G but it is rather refreshing to be able to run an up-to-date Web browseraE and PDF viewer for a change.  (It's also fun to run a Unix C compiler-B which can produce a list file, just like a _real_ C compiler.  The& family resemblance is pretty obvious.)  A    I appreciate all the work that went into prying a hobbyist VMS5H program out of the vendor, but it does not compare very well against theA Tru64 program, or Solaris, for that matter.  (What's the compilerdB situation on Solaris?  Anyone know?  It's not obvious that the $75A Solaris kit includes anything from the Forte package, or whatever1 they're calling it this week.)      From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>  D > 1) I think you can still get a V7.3-FT2 SDK for about $40.  It has > TCPIP 5.1 on it.: > 2) Form a pool with other hobbyists to buy a shared kit. > 3) Borrow a kit from work.  G    1) Sure, but prepare to be advised to upgrade to the real V7.3 every  time you ask about a problem.l  H    2)  That's convenient.  Then all we'd need to do is make bootleg CD-RF copies, and it'd be almost as good as being able to buy the real thing for a reasonable price.l  G    3) They quit using VMS where I work long ago.  Bad price/performancei9 and decreasing application availability were the reasons.'    E    If the goal is to discourage potential (low-budget) users, whethernF they be hobbyists or educational institutions or whoever, just provide7 an ample set of hoops through which everyone must jump.p  C    If the goal is to gain mind share or market share or applicationt; availability, a different approach might be more effective.a  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)SC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)rG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)p9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Mar 2001 19:58:44 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) ( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program, Message-ID: <98lu5k$1pp9$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3AADE84B.C5B9BCF5@infopuls.com>,,  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: |>   |> lH |> Standard on the platform which makes life a lot easier. If there wereF |> only VMS something like Java or the Oracle Java installer wouldn't 
 |> be needed.   G And if english were the only language in the world communications wouldaH be a lot easier.  But reality is different.  And it doesn't make French,- German or Spanish flawed, deficient or wrong.s   |>  F |> > |> With UNIX you aren't sure about the shell you will have to use |> > cM |> > Shell is a user selectable option.  It's what the "chsh" command is for. N |> > All Unix machines I have ever seen offer at least 2 to choose from.  SomeO |> > offer many more.  I would expect that most Unix sys admins would, like me, M |> > consider adding other shells if their users wanted them. (within reason,  |> > of course.) |> eD |> I know, I know. But what if the shell you are accustomed to isn'tE |> offered and the sysadmins like at the Swiss Exchange have a policyn |> not offer the bash?  C That's a social issue.  If your going to work for someone, you need D to make sure you know all the rules up front.  What if you wre hiredG build a house and after agreeing to do it found out you weren't allowednG to use any tool but a hammer??  My guess is you would have a reall hardg? time doing your job.  But that doesn't make it the fault of the,& screwdriver makers or the lumberyards.   |> tT |> > |>                                                                and if *your*S |> > |> aliases can be set up automatically (what if you have to type them in everyhT |> > |> time you login because you don't have the right to change anything permamentE |> > |> of youer account on a certain machine at a customer's site?).r |> > tS |> > The designation of aliases is done in your .login file in your home directory./O |> > If you are not even allowed to manipulate something as basic as this, yournR |> > account is virtually useless anyway.  Either the sys admin is an idiot or youQ |> > need to pick your customers from a more realistic list.  Can you imagine notw@ |> > having the necessary permissions to modify your LOGIN.COM?? |> mJ |> Been there, done that, even on VMS with accounts which I wasn't allowedI |> to change the LOGIN.COM. I was talking about the legal right to changeG& |> something e.g. on a bank's machine.  K That's a social problem and has nothing to do with Unix.  What if you were EJ hired to Administer a VMS machine but you weren't allowed to login or evenK go into the building where the system was??  Would that make the difficulty  a VMS problem??    |> yT |> > |> Look at the Oracle installation on UNIX. They provide at least two different; |> > |> sets of scripts for two shells. Major step forward!g |> > nK |> > Actually, I would guess that what they provide are two scripts for two J |> > different families of shells, which means they actually cover all but. |> > maybe the most obscure of private shells. |> wB |> And this is exactly what I was talking about: the necessity forC |> superflous work and the risk of having bugs or an old version in 5 |>  one of these scripts and not in the other a.s.o..e  H There's not much point in contiuning this.  You have now complained thatI some shells don't offer the features you want and that there are too many F shells.  So what is it, the only usefull feature set is what you like.   |> > |>oJ |> > |> I'm not sure if this is true. I do UNIX administration since 1996. |> > PI |> > And you still didn't know that the user could change his own shell??h |> > (see above) |> a |> I do, I do, see above.-  H Then it isn't a Unix problem, is it.  It's a social problem.  Technology5 has never been successful at solving social problems.l   |>   |> > |>h? |> > |> > The Unix haters here are so blinded by their religion A |> > |> > that they are missing the whole point and have led thisp> |> > |> > to deteriorate into little more than ahouting match. |> > |>tL |> > |> The flaws of UNIX are no invention of VMS people/advocates. They are0 |> > |> *inherent*, they are 'architectured' in. |> > eB |> > The "flaws" as you call them are only flaws to you.  They areE |> > design decisions to unix people.  Unix files are just streams ofk@ |> > bytes because that is the way Unix wants them.  Not a flaw.E |> > Different is not flawed, just different.  You may not understandoA |> > the rationale behind the differences, you may not like them,s, |> > but that still doesn't make them flaws. |> n2 |> No, these flaws are partially lack of services,  F Funny, Unix programmers have written thousands of usefull programs forF which there is no VMS equivalent and done all this without missing anyD of these "services".  One would think that the superiority of VMS in: this regard would have meant the tables would be reversed.  G |>                                                 missing concepts ande  : You mean like "fork", oops, that's the one VMS is missing.  
 |> standards a  C "Standards" like DECNET rather than TCPIP??  The "standard" for thenE desktop is Microsoft Windows.  Sould we all embrace that "standard"??2  G |>            or simply poorly thought through "design decisions" based-E |>  on the UNIX "philosophy" to offer only half of a solution lettingh$ |>  the rest be solved by the users.  F I would love to see your examples of these, although I can pretty muchD guess.  They are most l;ikely based on the idea that the data center. knows best what the user "really" wants to do.  H |>                                    Unfortunately you never defend theE |>  technical examples of brokeness that I gave many times. Repeatingq) |>  what you again did isn't an argument.a  E ??  What technical examples??  Name some specific "missing services",tC "missing concepts" and uncomplied with "standards".  But remember, pD not implementing DECNET is not a Unix idea.  It is a proprietary DECB protocol and even without any assitance from the only one with the) actual definition it is still being done.1   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   u   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Mar 2001 20:04:50 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)h( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program, Message-ID: <98luh2$1pp9$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3AADE93D.FBF4E2EE@infopuls.com>,,  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: |> ,B |> I should have emphasised that little "your account". I've seen A |> UNIX environments at Swiss banks where you weren't allowed to  A |> change any of the startup scripts (.bashrc, .profile etc.) of  ? |> the root account even if they gave you the root password to e |> install e.g. Oracle.m  > First off, I would imagine that if an outsider came into a VMS= site and started modifying the setup of the SYSTEM account ons< someone else's machine they would be shown the door in short; order.  That's not even a social problem, that's just good d system management.   |> aA |> Why is it that Oracle provides two sets of scripts? Why don't h! |> they rely on the Bourne shell?   = No satisfying some people.  Because everyone doesn't like the ? same shell they provide two scripts which use a minimal set of iA the features contained in the two families of shells (all currenta? shells are advancements on either the Bourne Shell, the C-shellc? or a hybrid of both).  This all but guarantees they will run ont@ your favorite shell thus not requiring you to use an unfamiliar,B uncomfortable shell for even the onetime install of their product.  ( I guess some people are never satisfied.   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:20:40 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>m( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program, Message-ID: <3AAEAB48.663A68F1@infopuls.com>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:  > G > This is getting to be something of a flame war come religious war.  Ir> > didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition and all that.......... > K > Complexity of code is something that is almost part and parcel of present M > product offerings.  This is because people are expecting more functions and-M > more displays and in the case of some environments cruddy little paperclips L > that come up when you least expect/need/want them and flying bits of paperE > that take up CPU time when you should actually be copying the file.t	 > Grrrrr!o > E > I would expect that stuff like cluster transition capabilities, SCS K > connections over switched LANs, memory channel and other interconnects istM > pretty complex to get right, as are a fair number of other parts of the VMSaK > operating system (not just the kernel).  Would you say that VMS is low onoJ > quality?  No.  Would you say that these bells and whistles should not be" > added in (along with APMP)?  No. > A > What you're getting with the work that is being carried out arepM > capabilities on VMS to present Unix-like environment features.  Or, as FredsH > Kleinsorge (not speaking for Compaq or OpenVMS or the US DoD) put it : > E > >>>So what COE provides is a common look & feel for the applicationoM > environment, which tends to drill down all the way to the UNIX command lineAK > interfaces.  You also have some "standards" - like POSIX and JAVA - which D > if people writing new segments adhere to, would allow source level > compatability.<<<1 > + > then later in the same message he wrote :t > M > >>>This does not "replace" anything that VMS currently does, or even weakenpL > it. All the capabilities are incremental, or supplemental.  But as always,H > poor UNIX code will work poorly, and good UNIX code will work well.  IK > expect that when someone wants the code to "mesh" into a VMS environment,lL > they may have work to do beyond a simple port - or they can choose to live$ > with a UNIX fish in a VMS pond.<<< >  > Christof Brass wrote:nM > >>>Quality is dependent on time and complexity i.e. effort and skilfulness.tK > Having UNIX on VMS raises complexity and hence imposes more difficulty in. > achieving quality. > ! > Why do we want another UNIX?<<<)   While I'm not satified with these general statements of the well estimated Fred Kleinsorge and while I'm still expecting hard problems with this COE stuff I have to admit that I can't prove it with concrete details.n Unnecessary complexity reduces quality with given time frames/milestones. The VMS feature rich environment doesn't need any adaption to any third party (DoD) rules - especially if these rules are strongly influenced by UNIX crap.aThe complexity of VMS is needed for delivering its features and therefore the tradeoff has been made to implement this quality features and sacrificing simplicity. UNIX is the opposite. Quality is lowered if you add something you don't need or which destroys the design or offers possiblities you better don't want to have because they don't fit in the way things are best done so far.s   Why would you like any of this COE stupidity from a technical point of view? And keep in mind that other things wouldn't be implemented because of the effort this COE task needs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:41:11 -0800 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com ( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational ProgramD Message-ID: <OFD656930C.DCE95362-ON88256A0E.00811BEF@foundation.com>  H From a technical point of view, as you say, we have no concrete details.H Let's see what VMS Engineering deliver first. From a real world point ofJ view, COE certification is intended to garner a larger userbase for VMS inH the military, guarantee its survival for many years to come, and lead toJ more apps becoming available. These are all extremely important right now.F Keeping VMS "pure" (for want of a better word) is NOT going to keep itG alive. You only have to look at Windows to see how much weight an idealnD design has in the current market - it's crap but it rules the world.  I This is a fight for survival. We can't afford the luxury of anyone's idea < of a perfect environment. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's.   Shane           = Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> on 03/13/2001 03:20:40 PMe   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como cc:g  ) Subject:  Re: OpenVMS Educational Programr    ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:e >aG > This is getting to be something of a flame war come religious war.  It> > didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition and all that.......... > K > Complexity of code is something that is almost part and parcel of presentaI > product offerings.  This is because people are expecting more functionsS and B > more displays and in the case of some environments cruddy little
 paperclipsF > that come up when you least expect/need/want them and flying bits of paperrE > that take up CPU time when you should actually be copying the file.t	 > Grrrrr!  >AE > I would expect that stuff like cluster transition capabilities, SCSoK > connections over switched LANs, memory channel and other interconnects isdI > pretty complex to get right, as are a fair number of other parts of the  VMSOK > operating system (not just the kernel).  Would you say that VMS is low oneJ > quality?  No.  Would you say that these bells and whistles should not be" > added in (along with APMP)?  No. >iA > What you're getting with the work that is being carried out areOH > capabilities on VMS to present Unix-like environment features.  Or, as FredH > Kleinsorge (not speaking for Compaq or OpenVMS or the US DoD) put it : > E > >>>So what COE provides is a common look & feel for the application H > environment, which tends to drill down all the way to the UNIX command lineK > interfaces.  You also have some "standards" - like POSIX and JAVA - whichaD > if people writing new segments adhere to, would allow source level > compatability.<<<  >'+ > then later in the same message he wrote :a >rF > >>>This does not "replace" anything that VMS currently does, or even weakenD > it. All the capabilities are incremental, or supplemental.  But as always, H > poor UNIX code will work poorly, and good UNIX code will work well.  IK > expect that when someone wants the code to "mesh" into a VMS environment,uG > they may have work to do beyond a simple port - or they can choose toi live$ > with a UNIX fish in a VMS pond.<<< >w > Christof Brass wrote: @ > >>>Quality is dependent on time and complexity i.e. effort and skilfulness.K > Having UNIX on VMS raises complexity and hence imposes more difficulty in  > achieving quality. > ! > Why do we want another UNIX?<<<   J While I'm not satified with these general statements of the well estimatedI Fred Kleinsorge and while I'm still expecting hard problems with this COETB stuff I have to admit that I can't prove it with concrete details.I Unnecessary complexity reduces quality with given time frames/milestones. G The VMS feature rich environment doesn't need any adaption to any thirdiH party (DoD) rules - especially if these rules are strongly influenced by
 UNIX crap.I The complexity of VMS is needed for delivering its features and thereforeuA the tradeoff has been made to implement this quality features andpK sacrificing simplicity. UNIX is the opposite. Quality is lowered if you addo? something you don't need or which destroys the design or offershH possiblities you better don't want to have because they don't fit in the  way things are best done so far.  F Why would you like any of this COE stupidity from a technical point ofK view? And keep in mind that other things wouldn't be implemented because of  the effort this COE task needs.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:22:26 -0500 0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>) Subject: Re: OVMS VAX/Alpha compatibilityn2 Message-ID: <F4CuOlqAdy66x7GnSMkHE=TM7wBA@4ax.com>  @ Considering that I'm running a mixed-version, mixed-architectureC cluster with one queue manager database, copying the queue manager bB database should work, with the caveat that SCSNODE and SYSSYSTEMIDE remains the same on the new nodes as on the old nodes.  That might beeE a requirement on all nodes, or it might be a requirement on the nodese< running the queue manager database; SHOW QUEUE/MANAGERS/FULLD will display the possible queue manager nodes.  The versions of VMS % running on my cluster are as follows:i   VAX V6.2, V7.1, V7.2 Alpha V6.2, V7.1, V7.2-1  1 On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:57:58 GMT, "Johan Schoofs"   <jschoofs@compuserve.com> wrote:   >Hi all, >tI >When replacing an existing cluster of VAXes with an Alpha based cluster, G >would it be possible to copy the queue and user databases from the VAXhJ >system disk to the Alpha system disk or do you have to rebuild these from4 >scratch? The VAXes are currently running OVMS V6.x. >r >Thanks for you help!I >o >Johan >  >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:02:57 -0500t' From: "Zeni Schleter" <zzb@y12.doe.gov>o) Subject: Re: OVMS VAX/Alpha compatibilityf, Message-ID: <98m1ul$5g7$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>  I We have migrated from Vaxes to Alphas but it was transitional - that is ,oE Alphas were added to the cluster and Vaxes dropped in a progressionalaL fashion.  Files mentioned in Dave Greenwood's message had already been movedH to shared non-system disks.  They served both Alpha and Vaxes needs.  AsG production was moved from Vaxes to Alphas, the queues on the Vaxes were L stopped, cleaned out  (not deleted) and restarted later when the replacement Alpha was in place.v  + If this makes sense , it may be helpful ...n    8 "Dave Greenwood" <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> wrote in message, news:13MAR01.18381723@feda01.fed.ornl.gov...2 > "Johan Schoofs" <jschoofs@compuserve.com> wrote: > > Hi all,e > >dL > > When replacing an existing cluster of VAXes with an Alpha based cluster,J > > would it be possible to copy the queue and user databases from the VAXH > > system disk to the Alpha system disk or do you have to rebuild these from7 > > scratch? The VAXes are currently running OVMS V6.x.n >oI > I've copied the user database (sysuaf, rightslist, netproxy, net$proxy,  etc.) H > successfully.  That was VAX/VMS 5.5-2 -> AXP/VMS 6.2.  And I've sharedK > those files between VAX/VMS 6.2 and AXP/VMS 7.1-2.  So those should be not
 > problem. >bI > I would expect the queue database to work also - at least as far as the H > queues and forms themselves go.  Depending on your configuration, it'sK > likely that all the device names will change which means that none of the 7 > existing queued jobs will run.  In any case, I'd do ao+ > SHOW QUEUE/ALL /FULL/OUT=<file> *     andrJ > SHOW QUEUE/FORM/FULL/OUT=<file> *     before starting this.  I also haveG > a .COM which will create a 2nd .COM to recreate the existing databasedG > which I can share if you want.  (The 2nd .COM requires some editing.)s >e > Dave > --------------; > Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVtJ > Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:15:54 GMTr2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: OVMS VAX/Alpha compatibilityc0 Message-ID: <e6wr6.88$G_1.5251@news.cpqcorp.net>  m In article <qksr6.12800$ou.891398@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>, "Johan Schoofs" <jschoofs@compuserve.com> writes:   I :When replacing an existing cluster of VAXes with an Alpha based cluster,nG :would it be possible to copy the queue and user databases from the VAXgJ :system disk to the Alpha system disk or do you have to rebuild these from4 :scratch? The VAXes are currently running OVMS V6.x.  D   Mixed architecture clusters permit the authorization and the queueF   database files to be fully shared.  In other words, yes, you can do G   what you want.  (There are recurring discussions of migrating SYSUAF dH   in the Ask The Wizard area.  Ask The Wizard topic (1861) contains one    such discussion.)  w  I   You can do more, however.  I would encourage an upgrade to OpenVMS VAX nG   V7.2 and current languages and tools, and then bring the new OpenVMS eI   Alpha systems (probably running OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1, or maybe V7.1-2) UE   directly into the existing OpenVMS VAX cluster. Consistent OpenVMS  F   versions and consistent tools and mixed-architecture clustering can "   simplify the migration proicess.  H   If you have an OpenVMS V7.2 or later kit available (or installed) you I   can examine the list of files that should be shared across all cluster sL   members -- whether OpenVMS VAX or OpenVMS Alpha -- in SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE.  K   The OpenVMS FAQ includes a section "MGMT33. Can I copy SYSUAF to another fL   version? To VAX? To Alpha?".  I will add a reference to the queue database;   into the section for the next edition of the OpenVMS FAQ.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:33:46 GMTt) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)>) Subject: Re: OVMS VAX/Alpha compatibilityl0 Message-ID: <3aae9f14.12377387@news.wcc.govt.nz>  1 On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:57:58 GMT, "Johan Schoofs"n  <jschoofs@compuserve.com> wrote:  @ Yes it is possible, I've recently moved my Queue Database Files.  5 I shut down all queues and stopped the Queue Manager. @ Copied the Queue Files to the new location. Changed the logical * qman$master to reference the new location.  E I created a separate directory on a device that gets mounted early int' the boot sequence and moved them there."  C Start the Queue Manager with the new directory as the P1 Parameter.a* Just redefining the logical is not enough.   Rob. >Hi all, >cI >When replacing an existing cluster of VAXes with an Alpha based cluster, G >would it be possible to copy the queue and user databases from the VAX.J >system disk to the Alpha system disk or do you have to rebuild these from4 >scratch? The VAXes are currently running OVMS V6.x. >n >Thanks for you help!  >d >Johan >. >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:54:27 GMT   From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...l8 Message-ID: <3v1tatcnd58gjembc3ccsfo736c25fo9qe@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:52:04 +0000, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:      >> >> "I saw one that was black"l >> "No, it's blue." & >> "No, it's black.  See, here it is." >> "That's not the one." >> e >o& >As with all our discussions the joke  >is on you.r  D Not exactly.  I merely pointed out that you are prone to using vagueB language.  I *never* said the problems didn't exist, only that youF used vague notions to say they do exist.  And that is exactly what you did in the previous reply.  A And still, I don't  see anything in there that says whether we're F prone to those attacks.  You *assume* that we are, but I see no proof.A And if the solution for other vendors is outside of their systemsyD (i.e., add firewalls), then I don't see why OpenVMS shouldn't adviseD the same (though I still haven't seen where that advice comes from).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:11:58 -0500i  From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil+ Subject: Read a file starting with file id?l0 Message-ID: <01031316115849@beast.dtsw.army.mil>   Hello,  F Our customer gets two ISO9660 cdroms each month from a vendor. We haveE been able to read them until last month. We think the vendor switched G to multi-session format, which is unsupported by OpenVMS. It seems thatl there are parts that do work.r  1 The cdrom mounts ok and a simple directory works:t       $ dire dka500:[000000]     Directory DKA500:[000000]r  J     ANIPICK.DBF;1       ar16.exe;1          ar32.exe;1          ar32.stp;1M     AUTORUN.EXE;1       autorun.inf;1       AutoRun.stp;1       CAPSULE.P4W;1 M     CDFPICK.DBF;1       CDR.DBF;1           CTRYPICK.DBF;1      DIBUTIL.DLL;1iJ     FIELDS.DBF;1        FIELDS.FPT;1        HIER.DBF;1          HIST.DBF;1K     icon.ico;1          ID.CTL;1            IMAGE.DBF;1         IMAGE.FPT;1mM     insMCIWP.exe;1      Manual.doc;1        MSVBVM50.DLL;1      REPORTS.DBF;1.L     REPORTS.FPT;1       Setup.exe;1         splash.bmp;1        TFPICK.DBF;1&     TRANS.DBF;1         VBRUN300.DLL;1       Total of 30 files.  6 Notice that there is no 000000.DIR;1 showing, however.   I can get the file id's:  "     $ dire/file_id dka500:[000000]       Directory DKA500:[000000]n        ANIPICK.DBF;1        (4,6,0)      ar16.exe;1           (4,7,0)      ar32.exe;1           (4,8,0)      ar32.stp;1           (4,9,0)!     AUTORUN.EXE;1        (4,10,0)i!     autorun.inf;1        (4,11,0)e!     AutoRun.stp;1        (4,12,0)t!     CAPSULE.P4W;1        (4,13,0) !     CDFPICK.DBF;1        (4,14,0)o!     CDR.DBF;1            (4,15,0) !     CTRYPICK.DBF;1       (4,16,0)d!     DIBUTIL.DLL;1        (4,17,0)l!     FIELDS.DBF;1         (4,18,0) !     FIELDS.FPT;1         (4,19,0) !     HIER.DBF;1           (4,20,0) !     HIST.DBF;1           (4,21,0)r!     icon.ico;1           (4,22,0) !     ID.CTL;1             (4,23,0)-!     IMAGE.DBF;1          (4,24,0)F!     IMAGE.FPT;1          (4,25,0)r!     insMCIWP.exe;1       (4,26,0)u!     Manual.doc;1         (4,27,0)e!     MSVBVM50.DLL;1       (4,28,0)p!     REPORTS.DBF;1        (4,29,0)n!     REPORTS.FPT;1        (4,30,0) !     Setup.exe;1          (4,31,0)Y!     splash.bmp;1         (4,32,0)e!     TFPICK.DBF;1         (4,33,0)l!     TRANS.DBF;1          (4,34,0)o!     VBRUN300.DLL;1       (4,35,0)l       Total of 30 files.  = But, if I try to get all the info on one of the files, I get:"  *     $ dire/full dka500:[000000]capsule.p4w%     %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files foundc  . If I try a wildcard, I get a little more info:  $     $ dire/full dka500:[000000]*.p4w       Directory DKA500:[000000]e  $     CAPSULE.P4W;1       no such file        Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks.  ) If I try to copy the file by name, I get:   .     $ copy/log  dka500:[000000]capsule.p4w nl:F     %COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA500:[000000]CAPSULE.P4W; as input     -RMS-E-FNF, file not found  0 However, when I use copy with a wildcard, I get:  (     $ copy/log  dka500:[000000]*.p4w nl:K     %COPY-S-COPIED, DKA500:[000000]CAPSULE.P4W;1 copied to NL: (39 records)   E This also works to a regular disk file. I have verified the contents.i  @ Does anyone know why copy behaves differently in these examples?  F I have a C program that now (thanks, Brian) can get the file spec from
 a file id:       $ fid dka500: 4 13 0     Filename(13)>CAPSULE.P4W;1< 5     Filespec(35)>_BEAST$DKA500:[000000]CAPSULE.P4W;1<n  C Is it possible to open and read a file using fab,rab,nam,etc blocksu starting with a file_id?  : Does anyone have a piece of (or reference to) sample code?  1 Thank you very much for any help you can provide,q  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919e; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919t5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094y   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2001 23:23:21 +0100) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis)d/ Subject: Re: Read a file starting with file id?m! Message-ID: <v$Zh$UYp+PyP@ludens>E  S In article <01031316115849@beast.dtsw.army.mil>, jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil writes:  > Hello,  # [...lots of interesting problem...]:    E > Is it possible to open and read a file using fab,rab,nam,etc blocks0 > starting with a file_id?     $ dump/id=(6805,5,0) DISK$TEMP:s  : (requires privilege or read access for [000000]indexf.sys)      3 > Thank you very much for any help you can provide,t > < > Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com    I Adam Maulis              maulis@ludens elte hu         VMS system manager H  .......................................................................H  VMS Competence Center                             VMS Szakertoi KozpontH  Eotvos Lorand University                  Eotvos Lorand TudomanyegyetemH  Budapest, Hungary                                              BudapestH  =======================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:34:49 -0500i& From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com>2 Subject: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD7 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010313153109.00b6e530@clmail>t  J I finally got my March distribution (VAX) today. (routed to a few persons J along the way). I extracted the TCP/IP release notes into a text file and L printed them only to find out that after the text portion is the Postscript  version.  L So, if you want to print either version, edit the text file first to delete H the Postscript or extract the Postscript to another file and print that.   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:03:22 +1000 B From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.ssppaammffree.com>6 Subject: Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD0 Message-ID: <YLxr6.97$G_1.5885@news.cpqcorp.net>  H Another workaround to this is to extract the release note files with the following command:  7     $ product extr file tcpip /select=[SYSHLP]TCPIP051*O   Matt.t  3 "Ken Robinson" <ksrobin@erenj.com> wrote in messageM1 news:5.0.0.25.2.20010313153109.00b6e530@clmail...hK > I finally got my March distribution (VAX) today. (routed to a few persons K > along the way). I extracted the TCP/IP release notes into a text file andiB > printed them only to find out that after the text portion is the
 Postscript
 > version. >gF > So, if you want to print either version, edit the text file first to deleteJ > the Postscript or extract the Postscript to another file and print that. >  > Ken Robinson >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:23:44 -0500e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)6 Subject: Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CDL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1403010123440001@user-2ive60v.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <5.0.0.25.2.20010313153109.00b6e530@clmail>, Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com> wrote:  L > I finally got my March distribution (VAX) today. (routed to a few persons L > along the way). I extracted the TCP/IP release notes into a text file and N > printed them only to find out that after the text portion is the Postscript 
 > version. > N > So, if you want to print either version, edit the text file first to delete J > the Postscript or extract the Postscript to another file and print that.  A Grr.  The documentation has had more and more formatting problemssE recently.  Some kids must be playing with microslop tools, instead ofh using good old VAX document.   -- d Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:03:26 -0500i, From: "Richard Whalen" <WhalenR@process.com># Subject: Re: TCPware SMTP Time Zones+ Message-ID: <98lueg$lfv$1@swen.process.com>e  = download the following kit from ftp.process.com/support/54_3/e smtp_v543p051.zipn8 Description:  Fix channel leak on DNS port (UDP port 53) ECO Ranking (this version):  2 ECO Ranking (maximum):  2  Release date:  23-JAN-2001& Full description: SMTP_V543P051 README TCPware versions:  5.4-3 Size:  2088 blocks   It includes the following fix:A  - Use TCPWARE_TIMEZONE_NAME or TCPWARE_TIMEZONE to determine theo    offset from GMT.t    DE 5650 ECO SMTP_V543P040,    ECO Rank: 3 (corrects a specific problem)      E "David J. Dachtera" <donotreply@interbulletin.bogus> wrote in messagei+ news:3AAE4C5B.4FD6AB9B@interbulletin.com... J > O.K. I'm not finding this in the doc.; so, I hope someone here can help. (Alsoo, > posted to vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.tcpware.) >-H > My TCPware SMTP out-going mail is being sent with the time zone in the headers<8 > as GMT instead of the value shown in TCPWARE_TIMEZONE: >p > $ sh log TCPWARE_TIMEZONEO6 >    "TCPWARE_TIMEZONE" = "-060000" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >         = "CST"r > $ mc tcpware:netcu > NETCU> show versC > TCPware(R) for OpenVMS V5.4-3 Copyright (c) 1999 Process Software  Corporatione >v > (On OpenVMS-VAX V6.2)Y >M+ > Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this?h >l > TIA. >h > -- > David J. Dachtera, > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u > 1 > _______________________________________________ = > Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com7 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:01:47 +0000p) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>eM Subject: Re: VMS Quality vs. New Features (was: OpenVMS Educational Progra	m)e, Message-ID: <3AAEB4EB.70497EF0@infopuls.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t > : > "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageH > news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD5449@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com...  > > > -----Original Message-----H > > > From: koehler@encompasserve.org [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org] > > ? > > > That may not stand up to well against Solaris, HP-UX, andb > > > Windows being90 > > > able to claim being the reference systems. > > H > > > Why buy product X on the basis that it's certified to be just like > > > product Y? > >dM > > A better question is, why buy anything which allows windows to serve as agD > > reference system in the first place?  Does anyone else find that
 > disturbing?e > >d > H > Sure, just as I am disturbed by McDonalds as a reference benchmark forH > eateries, and by USA Today as a reference standard for news. It's justH > another example of being dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.   Thanks. I agree to both of you.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 19:26:39 +1300 * From: John Jansen <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz>3 Subject: Volume Shadowing merge rates on Big Disks?s. Message-ID: <3AAF0F1D.DDC09133@tilgroup.co.nz>   Hi,   F Currently we use a Alpha 4100/300 with 4 gig and 9 gig disks in shadow sets.m( A shadow merge can take over a full day.    F We are considering the purchase of a dse20 with 9 gig and 18 gig disksD in shadow sets. This system is supposed to be 4 times as fast as ourE current one, but no one seems to be able to give me and indication ofAD how long it would take for a shadow set merge of the 18 gig disks on this system.  H Has any one had a real life experience of how long a merge would take. IB am looking to get an indication as to whether it will be and hour,
 hours, days??g     Thanking you for you help    Regards    John Jansen.     --@ ________________________________________________________________ John Janseny Group I.T Manager  Truck Investments Limitedi% Phone - Work    (64 6) 356-7179 x 826O or direct Line  (64 6) 351-9826h Fax             (64 6) 356 5586w E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nz@ ________________________________________________________________   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 02:10:52 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Info-VAX suscribersS- Message-ID: <87vgpdedzn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  & Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:  F > p.s.  Seriously, I haven't been on Info-VAX for close to five years.. > Reading the stuff in comp.os.vms via an nntp; > client is much faster and easier. John E. Malmberg wrote:e  0 Yeah, I've just found some '92 mail and news....   -- h< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.145 ************************