1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 14 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 146       Contents:' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip? ' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip? - Re: 9GB System Disk for an 8GB ES40 ?  KZPCC? - Re: 9GB System Disk for an 8GB ES40 ?  KZPCC?  Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news  Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news  RE: Alpha on ABC Evening news  Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news  Re: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX fixed. Re: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX from ACCVIO, known bug?P Re: Cannot issue any system() calls from a C program running under a captive accP Re: Cannot issue any system() calls from a C program running under a captive accP Re: Cannot issue any system() calls from a C program running under acaptive acco. Connect VMS to HP LaserJet 4050 on serial port2 Re: Connect VMS to HP LaserJet 4050 on serial port2 Re: Connect VMS to HP LaserJet 4050 on serial port CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMS Re: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMS Re: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMS Re: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMS Re: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMS Re: DCL minute of the day  Re: DCL minute of the day  Re: DCL minute of the day  Re: DCL minute of the day  Re: DCL minute of the day  Re: DCL minute of the day  Re: DCL minute of the day 5 DECW$SERVER process crashing with ACCVIO after update P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS  EducationalProgram) PP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) EdP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) EdP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) EduP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Pro HP Printer on VMS 6.2 $ Re: Low cost server - Sun, of course$ Re: Low cost server - Sun, of course Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations  Re: Low cost workstations ? Re: Marlboro men, was:  Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?  Merging multiple disks Re: Merging multiple disks Re: Merging multiple disks Re: Merging multiple disks! Re: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.1 ! Re: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.1  Re: OpenVMS Educational Program  Re: OpenVMS Educational Program  RE: OpenVMS Educational Program   Re: Possible security hole in...  Re: Possible security hole in...% Re: privs, name tables, documentation  Shadowing error  SSH for VMS  Re: SSH for VMS  Re: SSH for VMS  Re: SSH for VMS  Re: SSH for VMS  Re: SSH for VMS - Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD - RE: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD - Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD - Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD # UK Printer hardware Supplier Needed . Re: Volume Shadowing merge rates on Big Disks?. Re: Volume Shadowing merge rates on Big Disks? [DCL] minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day  [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing ! Re: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing ! Re: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing & [Q] TCP/IP RPC connection error status* Re: [Q] TCP/IP RPC connection error status  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:39:49 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?* Message-ID: <3AAF4A75.6FD8D281@uk.sun.com>   Paul DeMone wrote: >  > andrew harrison wrote: > >  > : > Hey look who crawled out of the woodwork. Hanging out at3 > c.s.i looking for hints of when merced s(l/h)ips?   ; Since I have never subscribed to comp.sys.intel, I can only . assume that you are refering to someone else.   
 > > Why wait.  > > 6 > > The Ultra III has an onchip memory controller now. > 4 > And the performance shows. Sure couldn't get those" > SPECmarks with a system bus. ;^) > 5 > Hmmm, connecting CPU pins to SDRAM? I guess Sun has 8 > a lot more cheap package pins than good ideas. Perhaps8 > SDRAM was state of the art when the 3 was architected. >   5 Humm so what would you recommend ?? RAMBUS, a fairly  6 safe recommendation on comp.os.vms/comp.sys.intel but 5 one that would garner much less support on comp.arch   as you know.   > > 5 > > Incedentally I do admire your logic Rob. 7 out of 6 > > 8 wins for supercomputer business = a great future4 > > for Alphaservers sounds great until you remember3 > > that sucess in the HPC space does not guarantee  > > sucess elsewhere.  > 9 > I don't know. The Sun replacement business is certainly 9 > a potential growth area. SPARC reminds me of the heyday 9 > of the VAX. Big, noisy, lots of press, lots of revenue. : > Slow CPUs held buoyant by software, seamless networking,: > but mostly fading reputation. And ripe for the big fall.. > BTW, has the US5 team come out of reset yet? >     So who would you choose instead.  2 HP, nah no one could be that dumb. Big first level3 cache, great SPECint/TPC-C performance and nothing  4 much else. Crippled by relatively small cache sizes 3 in a CPU that was designed to be "low cost" because / we should all be running IA-64 by now. Waiting  1 to put their customers through the HP-PA to IA-64 3 transition while frantically re-spinning the 8XXXX.   3 I have just had the great joy of having to organise 4 5 different apps benchmarks for 2 customers because 1 HP tried to convince them that HP-PA was twice as 5 fast as anything else on the market, so the customers 1 would only need 50% of the CPU's. The apps ranged 2 from HPC/FP to OLTP and Batch. 3 inhouse developed/ on HP, 2 off the shelf. In none of them and in  0 none of the sub-runs did Sun require more CPU's / than HP to be as fast of faster than HP and in  - a couple of cases the HP's were embarassingly / slow. In all cases HP benchmarked the best they  had.    1 Ever wondered why HP never published SPECrate_fp  0 numbers for the V-class, if you did look at the 0 numbers for the N-class it will give you a hint.  0 Compaq, nah no one could be that dumb. Crippled - by WildFire beginning to trail Marvel as the  & solution to all the WildFire problems.  # So what would you recommend ???????    > > + > > If it did then Crays and SGI MIPS based 3 > > machines would be widely used for as commercial  > > servers, which they arn't. > > 0 > > Its also good to see that you havn't stopped > > selling futures. > : > That stuff is due in the near future. Like most of Sun's= > US3 line. Except the EV68/EV7 stuff won't be born obsolete.  >   ) Really so how come WildFire was ?????????   4 Its not much point having a CPU which isn't obselete( if the only system you can run it in is.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:58:48 GMT ! From: jon@cmkrnl.net (Jon Morgan) 0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?) Message-ID: <3aaeb9d1.777948@130.133.1.4>   4 On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 00:50:16 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:4 >The OpenVMS Group already has a Marketing Director.   Does it?   		-jon.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:23:41 -0500  From: "Kark" <kark@itsww.com> 6 Subject: Re: 9GB System Disk for an 8GB ES40 ?  KZPCC?. Message-ID: <98np8p$bkb@news-central.tiac.net>  N Thanks for the replies.  I know I could go the multiple pagefile route, I justL have never been too fond of it.  The old VAX's set up in that manner used to7 take forever to boot and I guess it left an impression!   P Of course now I find out that Compaq has a new KZPCC Ultra2 RAID controller thatO is not held back by the 9GB limitation and can even use the new 15K rpm drives. L However the available documentation only mentions Unix drivers - nothing for6 OpenVMS.  Could this possibly be a viable alternative?     TIA,   - K    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:31:50 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)6 Subject: Re: 9GB System Disk for an 8GB ES40 ?  KZPCC?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1403010931500001@user-2ive72b.dialup.mindspring.com>  M In article <98np8p$bkb@news-central.tiac.net>, "Kark" <kark@itsww.com> wrote:   P > Thanks for the replies.  I know I could go the multiple pagefile route, I justN > have never been too fond of it.  The old VAX's set up in that manner used to9 > take forever to boot and I guess it left an impression!   H That's because they were old vaxes, not because of multiple page files. J Extra page files shouldn't take much time; mounting extra disks might, but+ you probably do that during startup anyway.   H One of the best ways to slow down booting is to let all the output go toH the console.  Many Vax and Alpha consoles are pitifully slow, and can be" the limiting factor in boot times.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 08:45:32 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news3 Message-ID: <98ZncE$rCekB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <1010313192507.3712B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > = > Hmm.  Is LAT bridgeable over a sub-space radio link?  Since ? > sub-space is clearly FTL (because they can carry on real-time < > conversations with Star Fleet HQ), the latencies should be( > okay.  Or is the bandwidth too narrow? >   A No, you can run it over a reasonable distance on a laser based T1 G connection between buildings, but Star Fleet hasn't convinced DECredux ( to provide subspace support for LAT yet.  J On a realted topic, rumor has it that Ensign Barkley will work on adding G DECnet Phase XIV support to his PHA0: based networking hack this summer ' after he finishes getting Voyager home.    -----------   in real life1  attributed to Charlie Matco V, but he denies it   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:14:20 +0100 7 From: Martin Zinser <zinser@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> & Subject: Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news2 Message-ID: <3AAF7CBC.6C274221@sysdev.exchange.de>   Hello!   Bob Koehler wrote: >=20 >=20F > On a realted topic, rumor=B2 has it that Ensign Barkley will work o= n addingF > DECnet Phase XIV support to his PHA0: based networking hack this su= mmer) > after he finishes getting Voyager home.  >=20
 > -----------   5 > =B2 attributed to Charlie Matco V, but he denies it  >=20  D On a really related topic (triggered by PHA0:) - Anybody got further2 VAXtrek episodes, beyonde the ones available on=20  3  http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/fun/vaxtrek.htmlx   % If yes, I'd love to add them there...    =09=09=09=09Greetings, Martin    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:38:27 -0500 ! From: Dan Allen <dallen@nist.gov> & Subject: RE: Alpha on ABC Evening news: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAOEJFDFAA.dallen@nist.gov>  Q 	I just tried Martin's URL and the links to the original Vax/Vms episodes are all Q 	dead.  Anybody know if or where these episodes are currently available? Are they ! 	available from ypur site Martin?    	TIA   	Dan > -----Original Message-----@ > From: Martin Zinser [mailto:zinser@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com]) > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:14 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news > 	 <snip...>  > F > On a really related topic (triggered by PHA0:) - Anybody got further2 > VAXtrek episodes, beyonde the ones available on  > 5 >  http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/fun/vaxtrek.htmlx  > ' > If yes, I'd love to add them there...  >  > 				Greetings, Martin  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:37:00 +0100 7 From: Martin Zinser <zinser@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> & Subject: Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news2 Message-ID: <3AAF901C.34F538C8@sysdev.exchange.de>   Hello,   Dan Allen wrote: > Z >         I just tried Martin's URL and the links to the original Vax/Vms episodes are allZ >         dead.  Anybody know if or where these episodes are currently available? Are they* >         available from ypur site Martin?  A I'm terribly sorry, they most have been misplaced during the move > of the server. I still have them around on another system and ? will put them up on the URL as soon as I'm back from my current > business travel (I'm trapped behind a firewall at the moment).; Unfortunatly this won't be before the end of March :-(. If  @ people are too impatient to wait until them I can send the stuff via private email too.  B On a lighter side - during my extended leave here I managed to getB some other funny stuff into shape for posting on my site, so these- will appear there too by the end of march ;-)    				Greetings, Martin  > 
 >         TIA  > 
 >         Dan  > > H > > On a really related topic (triggered by PHA0:) - Anybody got further3 > > VAXtrek episodes, beyonde the ones available on  > > 7 > >  http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/fun/vaxtrek.htmlx  > > ) > > If yes, I'd love to add them there...  > > 3 > >                               Greetings, Martin  > >  > >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 08:33:03 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX fixed 3 Message-ID: <ADDX9y9IJhhV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <s0wfn37JjMbx@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > . > The specific error was mentioned in the ECOs    Opps, missed a big NOT in there.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:00:06 -0500   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com7 Subject: Re: BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX from ACCVIO, known bug? 4 Message-ID: <C2256A0F.00518ED8.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  4 Thanks for this...however, it's got a missing label.* Could you please post a corrected version.  	 =========   ! $ @dcl_check make_backup_acct.com   @ -*- Charlie Hammond's unsupported DCL checker (Version G2.1) -*-# Checking file MAKE_BACKUP_ACCT.COM;   . Starting Pass 1 -- 14-MAR-2001 09:38:33.76 .... Starting Pass 2 -- 14-MAR-2001 09:38:36.91 .... Starting Pass 3 -- 14-MAR-2001 09:38:37.35 ...  & Procedure contains:    145 total linesE                         92 code lines (including 3 lines w/ comments) 8                          2 additional continuation lines5                          0 lines w/i $DECK/$EOD pairs -                         38 comment only lines &                         13 blank lines  #  LINE  CODE  --DIAGNOSTIC MESSAGE-- (   119  LND  line does not start with "$"(   124  LNF  label "NO_CHANGES" not found(   131  LNF  label "NO_CHANGES" not found0 -*- END OF LISTING -*-   14-MAR-2001 09:38:37.72          / DRAGON@compuserve.com on 03/13/2001 11:11:02 PM    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc: 4 Subject:  BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX from ACCVIO, known bug?        G         BACKUP is extremely sensitive to resources controlled by SYSGEN J parameters and SYSUAF quotas and limits.  The SYSTEM account is not set upJ properly for use by BACKUP.  There are very specific relationships betweenG the parameters that need to be satisfied for BACKUP to work well, or at  all!  J         Hoff!!  If you want to use this in the next Freeware distribution,I be my guest.  Compaq seems to be making the information difficult to find $ if you don't have access to DSNlink.   $! MAKE_BACKUP_ACCT.COM  $!# $! Copyright 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999  $! Richard B. Gilbert  $! <DRAGON@CompuServe.Com>F $!  A license to use and distribute this software is granted under the following terms: $!  1.  You may not sell it ' $!  2.  You may not claim you wrote it. J $!  3.  You may not remove or alter my Copyright notice or these terms and conditions. F $!  4.  You may not modify it unless you make the modifications freely available to all otherI $!        licensees.  Modifications must be made in such a way that it is  clear who wrote what. G $!  5.  This software is offered without warranty of any kind whatever.e If it's broken, you fix it!e $! $!G $! Writes a DCL command procedure to create an account for use with theoF $! BACKUP utility.  It calculates appropriate values of the UAF QuotasJ $! and Limits using rules of thumb from the article "Setting Up ParametersH $! For the VMS BACKUP Operation (V5.2 or later)" which is available fromG $! DSNlink.  Some of these values may have to be hand tuned for optimume $! results.  $!E $!      02-DEC-1996     - Added prompt for the number of backup jobs.s7 $!      11-MAR-1997     - Fixed to calculate WSQUOTA <= G $!                      - MIN ((VIRUTALPAGECNT, PAGEFILE_FREE) - 3000).vE $!                      - Translated Alpha PAGEFILE_FREE to pagelets. < $!      17-JUN-1999     - Create logicals in executive mode.D $!      14-SEP-1999     - Apply Andy Goldstein's recommendations for, $!                        calculating DIOLM. $!5 $ READ /PROMPT="Maximum Simultaneous BACKUP Jobs? " -e'         SYS$COMMAND     MAX_BACKUP_JOBS  $ WSMAX = F$GETSYI("WSMAX")e- $ VIRTUALPAGECNT = F$GETSYI("VIRTUALPAGECNT") + $ PAGEFILE_FREE = F$GETSYI("PAGEFILE_FREE")u! $ IF F$GETSYI("ARCH_TYPE") .EQ. 2  $       THENK $               PAGEFILE_FREE = PAGEFILE_FREE * F$GETSYI("PAGE_SIZE") / 512M
 $       ENDIFr1 $ PAGEFILE_FREE = PAGEFILE_FREE / MAX_BACKUP_JOBS(& $ IF VIRTUALPAGECNT .GT. PAGEFILE_FREE $       THEN' $               PGFLQUO = PAGEFILE_FREEM $       ELSE( $               PGFLQUO = VIRTUALPAGECNT
 $       ENDIF  $ WSDEF = 1024 $ WSQUOTA = WSMAX < $ IF WSQUOTA .GT. (PGFLQUO - 3000) THEN WSQUOTA=PGFLQUO-3000 $ WSEXTENT = WSMAX# $ FILLM = F$GETSYI("CHANNELCNT")-15s $!? $! Calculate DIOLM.  The maximum usable value of DIOLM is 32757 B $! (required to allow ASTLM=32767).  The minimum value of DIOLM isH $! MAX(4096, FILLM*3).  The rule that DIOLM = WSQUOTA / BLOCKSIZE is dueE $! to Andy Goldstein <Goldstein@star.zko.dec.com>.  The rule given innD $! the System Manager's Manual (and other places) yields the MINIMUMD $! rather than the recommended value and fails for very large values $! of WSQUOTA. $!G $! Assume BLOCKSIZE (in blocks) =32256/512 or 63.  The minimum is 4 andnF $! the maximum is 127.  A blocksize of 32256 is the recommended value. $! $ BLOCKSIZE = 32256/512s $ DIOLM = WSQUOTA / BLOCKSIZEr& $ IF DIOLM .GT. 32757 THEN DIOLM=32757- $! This calculates a minimum value for DIOLM.  $ IF 3*FILLM .LE. 4096 $       THEN  $               MIN_DIOLM = 4096 $       ELSE# $               MIN_DIOLM = 3*FILLM/
 $       ENDIF . $ IF DIOLM .LT. MIN_DIOLM THEN DIOLM=MIN_DIOLM8 $ ASTLM = DIOLM + 10                    ! Minimum value.8 $ BYTLM = (256*FILLM) + (6*DIOLM)       ! Minimum value. $ BIOLM = FILLMr7 $ ENQLM = FILLM + 2                     ! ENQLM > FILLMo $!+ $! Now write the ADD command for authorize.  $!" $ OPEN /WRITE FILE BACKUP_ACCT.COMK $ WRITE FILE "$! Suggested UAF Parameters for the account running BACKUP ona ''F$GETSYI("NODENAME")'."oJ $ WRITE FILE "$! We assume ''MAX_BACKUP_JOBS' simultaneous backup jobs and the SYSGEN parameters in"-5 $ WRITE FILE "$! effect at ''F$CVTIME(,"ABSOLUTE",)'"- $!F $!  Make the User Authorization File (UAF) accessable.  We use F$PARSE4 $! to allow for a logical name pointing to the file. $!H $ WRITE FILE "$ ASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE ''F$PARSE("SYSUAF", "SYS$SYSTEM", ".DAT")'   SYSUAF"> $ WRITE FILE "$ ASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE ''F$PARSE("RIGHTSLIST",$ "SYS$SYSTEM", ".DAT")'   RIGHTSLIST"J $ WRITE FILE "$ ASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE ''F$PARSE("NETPROXY", "SYS$SYSTEM", ".DAT")' NETPROXY"K $ WRITE FILE "$ ASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE ''F$PARSE("NET$PROXY", "SYS$SYSTEM",  ".DAT")' NET$PROXY" ) $ WRITE FILE "$ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:AUTHORIZE"  $ GOSUB GENERATE_PASSWORDS9 $ WRITE FILE "ADD BACKUP /UIC=[16,1] /PASSWORD=''PWD3' -";9 $ WRITE FILE "/DEVICE=SYS$SYSROOT: /DIRECTORY=[SYSMGR] -"a@ $ WRITE FILE "/FILLM=''FILLM' /BIOLM=''BIOLM' /DIOLM=''DIOLM' -"@ $ WRITE FILE "/ASTLM=''ASTLM' /ENQLM=''ENQLM' /BYTLM=''BYTLM' -"4 $ WRITE FILE "/WSDEF=''WSDEF' /WSQUOTA=''WSQUOTA' -"8 $ WRITE FILE "/WSEXTENT=''WSEXTENT' /PGFLQUO=''PGFLQUO'"F $ WRITE FILE "MODIFY BACKUP /PRIVILEGE=(OPER,READALL,SYSPRV,VOLPRO) -"@ $ WRITE FILE "/DEFPRIV=SYSPRV /FLAGS=NODISUSER /NOINTERACTIVE -"# $ WRITE FILE "/NOREMOTE /NONETWORK" 0 $ WRITE FILE "$ DEASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE SYSUAF"4 $ WRITE FILE "$ DEASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE RIGHTSLIST"2 $ WRITE FILE "$ DEASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE NETPROXY"3 $ WRITE FILE "$ DEASSIGN /EXECUTIVE_MODE NET$PROXY"o $ CLOSE FILE $ EXIT $! $GENERATE_PASSWORDS:F $! Privs are a temporary workaround for a bug in OpenVMS/Alpha V6.2 -- V7.0.e* $ SET PROCESS /PRIVILEGE = (LOG_IO,PHY_IO) $ MYPID = F$GETJPI("", "PID")n! $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO GEN_PWD_DONE,7 $ DEFINE /USER_MODE SYS$OUTPUT SYS$SCRATCH:A'MYPID'.TMPu $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO ERROR_EXIT  $ SET PASSWORD /GENERATE=8 INVALIDl $GEN_PWD_DONE:: $ IF F$SEARCH("SYS$SCRATCH:A''MYPID'.TMP") .EQS. "" THEN -         GOTO ERROR_EXITa/ $ SET PROTECTION=(G,W) SYS$SCRATCH:A'MYPID'.TMP  $ON ERROR THEN GOTO NO_CHANGES $ PWD1 = ""4 $ PWD2 = ""i $ PWD3 = ""t $ PWD4 = ""s $ PWD5 = ""H
 $ PWDN = 1 $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO NO_CHANGESr- $ OPEN/READ PWD_FILE SYS$SCRATCH:A'MYPID'.TMPr
 $PWD_LOOP:' $ READ /END=END_OF_FILE PWD_FILE RECORDh $ PWD = F$ELEMENT(0," ",RECORD)P$ $ IF PWD .EQS. "" THEN GOTO PWD_LOOP $ PWD'PWDN' = PWD  $ SHOW SYMBOL PWD'PWDN'e $ PWDN = PWDN + 1 " $IF PWDN .LE. 5 THEN GOTO PWD_LOOP
 $END_OF_FILE:  $ CLOSE PWD_FILE# $ DELETE SYS$SCRATCH:A'MYPID'.TMP;*n $ERROR_EXIT: $ RETURN      # Message text written by Bob Koehlers >d&    OpenVMS Alpha 7.2-1, DEC 3000 M600S    MOZILLA M0.8     BNU V2.1n    CXML V3.59-1a    DECNET_OSI V7.2-1    DWMOTIF V1.2-5n    FORRTL V7.3-1    FORTRAN V7.3-1e    HYPERHELP V5.1-2n    JAVA V1.1-85r    JAVA122 V1.2-21    JAVAAPIDOC122 V1.2-21    MACRO64 V1.2o    NS_NAV_EXPORT V3.0-3h    ODL V2.1w    OPENVMS V7.2-1.    BLISS Alpha 18-028c    Compaq C V6.2-008    Multinet 4.3A
    CMS 4.0
    MMS V3.3-4 
    DIA 029    Debug64 V7.2-00Rd    	    ECO's:        VMS721_ACRTL-V0200       VMS721_PCSI-V0100        VMS721_RTPAD-V0100       VMS721_UPDATE-V0100s       VMS721-MIME-V0100        VMS721_PTHREAD-V0100       CMS721_SYS-V0100  ; Recently I'm getting on all my backups (all disks, not just  SYS$SYSDEVICE):h  I %BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX, error processing index file on SYS$SYSDEVICE:, RVN 1e; -SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual =    address=0000000000000000, PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000   2 BACKUP is run under the SYSTEM account as follows:  @    backup/noalias/record/verify/ignore=(interlock,label)/image -7                  /label=(09MAR0,09MAR1,09MAR2,09MAR3) -14                    SYS$SYSDEVICE: mkb100:BASYS.bck -H                 /block_size=16384/nocrc/norewind/media_format=compaction  F I can't find this ACCVIO on Notes (EISNER) or Deja news (Google).  TheF latest ECOs for BACKUP on ftp.support.compaq.com don't seem to address this.r  D I'm going to verify that no privileges get turned off, and I may try@ backing out the latest couple software updates as it seems to be< coincident with them (VMS721_RTPAD-V0100 and MOZILLA_M0008).   Known bug?  Fix? <s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:32:23 GMTi5 From: danco@cx48228-c.escnd1.sdca.home.com (Dan Cook) Y Subject: Re: Cannot issue any system() calls from a C program running under a captive acca- Message-ID: <slrn9au7st.35o.danco@pebble.org>   I On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:26:07 -0500, Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca> wrote:G   > It's onlydE > under the C application where this fails.  Is there a compiler flagtH > that we should be using?  The Compaq C Compiler is version 6.2-003 andB > we are using the /STANDARD=VAXC flag for the porting from VAX to	 > COMPAQ.   E How about calling lib$spawn() directly instead of system().  Then you : can set the CLI$M_TRUSTED flag bit in the flags parameter.   - DanZ   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:02:24 GMTr2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)Y Subject: Re: Cannot issue any system() calls from a C program running under a captive accm1 Message-ID: <AuNr6.117$G_1.6408@news.cpqcorp.net>o  _ In article <giotatsp5aes3i43eh8ln2k6qt4aha27jg@4ax.com>, Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca> writes:e  G :We are porting over an application coded in C from a DEC VAX VMS 5.5-2lE :to a Compaq Alpha DS20E OpenVMS 7.1-2.  Our users accounts are setup E :as captive accounts.  One of the things that we were able to perform G :under the old environment was to issue a system() call from within the = :application to spawn a subprocess.  However, under the newernG :environment, we are now getting an error return code from the system()d :command.     B   You must use the lib$spawn or sys$creprc call for this, as the CA   system call does not offer a TRUSTED flag.  You would bave seen:B   this same behaviour on your OpenVMS VAX system had you upgraded B   to a consistent compiler and OpenVMS VAX version, a technique I    usually recommend.  : :Checking the manuals, it says that we are able to issue aE :spawn command through the /TRUSTED flag.  We tried this and it stillcA :fails.  Issuing any system calls, for example, a simple DIR alsoi :failed.  D   This failure is deliberate and expected.  You will need to use theE   lib$spawn or sys$creprc here -- and not the C system call -- as youd%   must specify the TRUSTED qualifier.D  ? :The funny thing is that running a DCL script under the captivet; :account, we can issue any system calls with no problems.     C   There exists no system call" in DCL, only SPAWN.  A SPAWN command D   *will* fail from the context of a CAPTIVE command procedure -- if #   you do not also include /TRUSTED.,  @   The FAQ references some of the CAPTIVE-related changes, in the*   context of moving SYSUAF files around.    
 :It's onlyD :under the C application where this fails.  Is there a compiler flagG :that we should be using?  The Compaq C Compiler is version 6.2-003 andvA :we are using the /STANDARD=VAXC flag for the porting from VAX to  :COMPAQ.  D   The C compiler and version is useful information, but the compiler/   is not relevent to this particular behaviour.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:41:53 +0010l% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auAY Subject: Re: Cannot issue any system() calls from a C program running under acaptive acco.5 Message-ID: <01K177W233SI00B05Q@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>t   Danco@pebble.org wrote:=J >On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:26:07 -0500, Norman Woo <nwoo@videotron.ca> wrote: >a >> It's onlyF >> under the C application where this fails.  Is there a compiler flagI >> that we should be using?  The Compaq C Compiler is version 6.2-003 and C >> we are using the /STANDARD=VAXC flag for the porting from VAX too
 >> COMPAQ. >dF >How about calling lib$spawn() directly instead of system().  Then you; >can set the CLI$M_TRUSTED flag bit in the flags parameter.      First point, to Norman: O Bite the bullet.  Re-compile under DEC/Compaq C (i.e. without the /standard).  aR It's more up-to-date and does not fall into the multitude of traps that the VAX c P compiler did.  It's based on the old Kernighan and Ritchie stuff which has been M way superseded.  You'll likely get a lot of warnings, but if corrected, your  6 program is more portable, and more current C standard.  M There is unlikely to be a CC compiler flag.  Understand the issues regarding  P captive or restricted.  And what can you do in DCL (i.e., the command) that you N cannot do from system() -- I would judge that you cannot do it from lib$spawn N either, but I do not know the implications of the flag bit that Dan mentioned.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,h
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiad   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,e; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:53:15 GMTm& From: AAnthonisse@chemproha.com.nospam7 Subject: Connect VMS to HP LaserJet 4050 on serial porto/ Message-ID: <3aaf77b4.15106234@news.euronet.nl>a   Hi,i  F Is it possible to connect a DEC VAX running VMS to an HP LaserJet 4050 via a serial port on a MUX?m  6 I have all connectors in place, but what do i do next?  
 Kind regards,o   Arja Anthonissee   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 17:03:47 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER); Subject: Re: Connect VMS to HP LaserJet 4050 on serial port * Message-ID: <3aaf9663$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  X In article <3aaf77b4.15106234@news.euronet.nl>, AAnthonisse@chemproha.com.nospam writes:G >Is it possible to connect a DEC VAX running VMS to an HP LaserJet 4050  >via a serial port on a MUX?   Yes.  7 >I have all connectors in place, but what do i do next?a   Set up a queue.3   -- 5< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888r< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:13:35 GMTr2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman); Subject: Re: Connect VMS to HP LaserJet 4050 on serial porto1 Message-ID: <3FNr6.119$G_1.6408@news.cpqcorp.net>w  X In article <3aaf77b4.15106234@news.euronet.nl>, AAnthonisse@chemproha.com.nospam writes:  G :Is it possible to connect a DEC VAX running VMS to an HP LaserJet 4050  :via a serial port on a MUX?  I   The more complex the configuration and the wiring, the more difficulty bF   you will have.  Yes, this is possible.  Yes, it can get ugly.  UsingF   a network connection or a straight serial connection will be easier,B   each widget you introduce (mux, modem) increases the difficulty.  E   Most folks (including myself) prefer to use a NIC to connect to theiJ   printer.  I will assume you have an existing point-to-point serial link H   to a remote site, and are already using a mux for relatively low-speed#   and low-bandwidth communcations. r  7 :I have all connectors in place, but what do i do next?c  K   Given my own experience, I would doubt you have it correct -- I've almostaL   never managed to get this all to work based solely on the connectors used.K   First, you will want to acquire a serial-line breakout box, and then you aJ   will want to take a look at the HP LaserJet 4050 information in the Ask I   The Wizard area and also at the various topics there covering pinouts,  G   wiring, adapters, modems, and printers.  Also see the information on  G   printers and terminals in the OpenVMS manual.  Also see the mux docs.V  H   You WILL want to acquire a serial-line breakout box, as this is one ofL   the quickest ways possible to determine and resolve the inevitable wiring L   problems that lurk in any complex serial line communcations configuration.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:20:57 +0100t- From: Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMS 3 Message-ID: <3AAF8C58.64216100@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>t   Hi All,e    F I have some problem setting up a CVS-client on my VMS7.2-1 system that$ uses SSH(FISH) to access the server.(  I installed FISH as ssh-client program.F  I defined the logical CVS_RSH as the FISH executable with a full path  I I run CVS as ,     cvs co -d:ext:joukj@anynode.org:/cvsroot@  I tried to switch on all priviledges as suggested in the READMEF All this did not give me any connection to the server. The same server2 is reachable with CVS using ssh from Unix-systems.  4  Has anyone a suggestion what can be wrong/improved?                     Jouk   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:13:15 GMT!= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)a# Subject: Re: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMSt0 Message-ID: <009F8FF7.D8A0E559@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <3AAF8C58.64216100@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>, Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> writes:1 >Hi All, >e >rG >I have some problem setting up a CVS-client on my VMS7.2-1 system thatc% >uses SSH(FISH) to access the server. ) > I installed FISH as ssh-client program.)G > I defined the logical CVS_RSH as the FISH executable with a full patha > I I run CVS as- >    cvs co -d:ext:joukj@anynode.org:/cvsrootmA > I tried to switch on all priviledges as suggested in the READMEoG >All this did not give me any connection to the server. The same server"3 >is reachable with CVS using ssh from Unix-systems.O >N5 > Has anyone a suggestion what can be wrong/improved?  >T >                  JoukR   CMS!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             NO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:34:05 +0800U- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> # Subject: Re: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMS ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010314233405.007a2d30@mail.bigpond.com>N  = At 03:13 PM 3/14/01 GMT, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:Q@ >In article <3AAF8C58.64216100@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>, Jouk Jansen# <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> writes:C	 >>Hi All,O >> >>H >>I have some problem setting up a CVS-client on my VMS7.2-1 system that& >>uses SSH(FISH) to access the server.* >> I installed FISH as ssh-client program.H >> I defined the logical CVS_RSH as the FISH executable with a full path >> I I run CVS asi. >>    cvs co -d:ext:joukj@anynode.org:/cvsrootB >> I tried to switch on all priviledges as suggested in the READMEH >>All this did not give me any connection to the server. The same server4 >>is reachable with CVS using ssh from Unix-systems. >>6 >> Has anyone a suggestion what can be wrong/improved? >> >>                  Jouk >s >CMS!L >  >--T3 >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-00017 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >           J >city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.   9 OK Brian... what's your subject? The bleeding obvious :-)I     Regards, Dave.I -- LI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comaI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/II DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmwI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" LennonM   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:45:43 +0100o- From: Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>!# Subject: Re: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMSn3 Message-ID: <3AAFA037.53C47D39@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>R  $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > e > In article <3AAF8C58.64216100@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>, Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> writes:o
 > >Hi All, > >n > >tI > >I have some problem setting up a CVS-client on my VMS7.2-1 system thatY' > >uses SSH(FISH) to access the server.I+ > > I installed FISH as ssh-client program.SI > > I defined the logical CVS_RSH as the FISH executable with a full pathT > > I I run CVS as/ > >    cvs co -d:ext:joukj@anynode.org:/cvsrootRC > > I tried to switch on all priviledges as suggested in the README"I > >All this did not give me any connection to the server. The same serverU5 > >is reachable with CVS using ssh from Unix-systems., > >A7 > > Has anyone a suggestion what can be wrong/improved?I > >R > >                  JoukE >  > CMS! > A But that will not help me accessing "general" CVS repositories at  SourceForge.                 Jouk   ------------------------------   Date: 14 MAR 2001 17:08:03 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> # Subject: Re: CVS & SSH(FISH) on VMS(2 Message-ID: <14MAR01.17080318@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  . Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote:	 > Hi All,N >  T >  NH > I have some problem setting up a CVS-client on my VMS7.2-1 system that& > uses SSH(FISH) to access the server.* >  I installed FISH as ssh-client program.H >  I defined the logical CVS_RSH as the FISH executable with a full path >  I I run CVS asR. >     cvs co -d:ext:joukj@anynode.org:/cvsrootB >  I tried to switch on all priviledges as suggested in the READMEH > All this did not give me any connection to the server. The same server4 > is reachable with CVS using ssh from Unix-systems. >  H6 >  Has anyone a suggestion what can be wrong/improved?  I You could add file transfer capability (scp) to FISH?  FISH provides only'C the ssh client (telnet), not scp.  I looked at the sources once andIH decided that implementing scp was hopeless.  Previous discussions on theH VMS-SSH mailing list have suggested that people much more competent than  I to do this have also given up.  " I think we're out of luck for now.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV(H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:49:30 GMTW, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day& Message-ID: <3AAF226D.4848F274@gmx.ch>  $ yep. I did not realize this. Thanks.  Now, back to the MACRO assembler   D.   "J. Scott Greig" wrote:M > L > It is not the SET image, it is DCL attempting to determine which SET imageG > to activate (SETP0, SETWATCH etc.).  Since DCL executes at supervisorJ@ > level, I would guess that the assign/user is of no value here.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:51:42 GMT2, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day& Message-ID: <3AAF22F1.11B4DE88@gmx.ch>  $ Why is Brian's post not posted here?   D.   Peter Weaver wrote:1 > D > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in4 > message news:009F8F2C.E25962F4@SendSpamHere.ORG... ../..(   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 2001 02:04 CSTr' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins):" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day- Message-ID: <14MAR200102043145@gerg.tamu.edu>0  ! system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes... e }In article <Vwrr6.154522$Z2.1938909@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:gD }>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in4 }>message news:009F8F2C.E25962F4@SendSpamHere.ORG... }>>...* }>> File DCL-MINUTE-OF-THE-CENTURY.COM is: }>>r& }>> $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT }>> .ENTRY START,0 }>> $CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=ZAP }>> RETG }>> .ENTRY ZAP,06 }>> MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPD: }>> MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storage= }>> CLRW PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; zero current DCL process levelo }>> MOVL #1,R0 }>> RETs }>> .END START6 }>> $ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STB }>> $ RUN $TMP$  }>> $ DELETEE $TMP$.*.*- }>> $ EXAMINE/WORD ADR	 }>> $ SET1& }>> $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT }>> .ENTRY START,0 }>> $CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=SET }>> RETu }>> .ENTRY SET,06 }>> MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPD: }>> MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storage@ }>> MOVW #1,PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; save current DCL process level }>> MOVL #1,R0 }>> RETp }>> .END START6 }>> $ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STB }>> $ RUN $TMP$o }>> $ DELETEE $TMP$.*.*n }>>0 }>B }>A minor change; to get this to work add "$DECK" after each MACRO6 }>command and add "$EOD" after each ".END START" line. }> }  }Works just fine without too.e }-- P }VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM   Does it?  G If it does, it is an inconsistency in the DCL parsing between versions.H  E The "$" at the start of the line reading "$CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=SET" woulda? normally terminate the input parsing and be interpreted as DCL.e  ? Actually, having tried it, it neither works nor fails correctly4 ("[CARL]: " is my prompt):   [CARL]: set verify [CARL]: type foo.com" $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT
 ENTRY START,0l $CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=ZAP RETO ENTRY ZAP,0 2 MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPD6 MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storage9 CLRW PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; zero current DCL process levelt
 MOVL #1,R0 RETa	 END STARTw2 $ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STB [CARL]: @foo.com* (01:53) $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT
 ENTRY START,0   
 ENTRY START,0e ^e* %AMAC-W-MISSINGEND, missing .END statement% at line number 1 in file SYS$INPUT:.;U    I Then it hangs consuming CPU indefinately (I let it run for about a minutetH and it ate about a minute of CPU time and didn't hit the end of the .COMB file or produce any other output). After the ^Y there is a 0 block $TMP$.OBJ file.l  ; The hanging is unexpected, by it's not working is expected.e  7 The following example is more like what I had expected:r [CARL]: type foo.tmp $ type sys$input a  bs ci $ show timee ee fd gp [CARL]: @foo.tmp (01:55) $ type sys$input ar as be b  ce c  (01:55) $ show timec   14-MAR-2001 01:55:28	 (01:55) eT> %DCL-W-ABVERB, ambiguous command verb - supply more characters  \E\	 (01:55) ft> %DCL-W-ABVERB, ambiguous command verb - supply more characters  \F\	 (01:55) gs> %DCL-W-ABVERB, ambiguous command verb - supply more characters  \G\  C This correctly bails from sys$input on the line starting with a "$"aC and it then produces the expected errors for the rest of the lines.l    This leaves 2 sets of questions:  @ 1) Why did you think it would work? Did you actually try runningA it from inside a command proceedure or only interactively? If youi> did do it and it worked, what version of VMS are you using? As8 shown above it doesn't work on mine, which is 6.1 Alpha.  E 2) Why didn't it fail in the expected manner? It should not have hungpE consuming 100% CPU when it hit that line starting with a "$", so what-E went wrong? Why didn't DCL parse the rest of the file in the expected  manner?i   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:45:35 +0010-% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au-" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day5 Message-ID: <01K1781MKCQQ00B05Q@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>c  % >Why is Brian's post not posted here?a >  >D.1 >a >Peter Weaver wrote: >> mE >> "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote inm5 >> message news:009F8F2C.E25962F4@SendSpamHere.ORG...  >../..     Where is "here"?  M If you are referring to Info-VAX, it came through to me, and obviously under 0% Info-VAX or c.o.v newsgroup to Peter.    Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development, 
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, AustraliaT   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people, ; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:32:06 GMTl= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-))" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day0 Message-ID: <009F8FD8.F3F9BF2A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <14MAR200102043145@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:u" >system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes...f >}In article <Vwrr6.154522$Z2.1938909@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:E >}>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in 5 >}>message news:009F8F2C.E25962F4@SendSpamHere.ORG.... >}>>...m+ >}>> File DCL-MINUTE-OF-THE-CENTURY.COM is:w >}>>' >}>> $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT  >}>> .ENTRY START,0t >}>> $CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=ZAPh >}>> RET >}>> .ENTRY ZAP,0.7 >}>> MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPDp; >}>> MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storageu> >}>> CLRW PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; zero current DCL process level >}>> MOVL #1,R0z >}>> RET >}>> .END START"7 >}>> $ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STBm >}>> $ RUN $TMP$ >}>> $ DELETEE $TMP$.*.* >}>> $ EXAMINE/WORD ADRp
 >}>> $ SET' >}>> $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT1 >}>> .ENTRY START,0M >}>> $CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=SETr >}>> RET >}>> .ENTRY SET,0e7 >}>> MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPD3; >}>> MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storagetA >}>> MOVW #1,PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; save current DCL process levell >}>> MOVL #1,R0  >}>> RET >}>> .END STARTp7 >}>> $ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STBt >}>> $ RUN $TMP$ >}>> $ DELETEE $TMP$.*.* >}>> >}>MC >}>A minor change; to get this to work add "$DECK" after each MACROu7 >}>command and add "$EOD" after each ".END START" line.  >}>s >} D >}Works just fine without too. >}--Q >}VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe > 	 >Does it?i > H >If it does, it is an inconsistency in the DCL parsing between versions. >oF >The "$" at the start of the line reading "$CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=SET" would@ >normally terminate the input parsing and be interpreted as DCL. > @ >Actually, having tried it, it neither works nor fails correctly >("[CARL]: " is my prompt):S >A >[CARL]: set verify  >[CARL]: type foo.comn# >$ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT  >ENTRY START,0 >$CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=ZAP  >RET >ENTRY ZAP,03 >MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPD 7 >MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storagec: >CLRW PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; zero current DCL process level >MOVL #1,R06 >RET
 >END START3 >$ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STBe >[CARL]: @foo.comi+ >(01:53) $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUTs >ENTRY START,0 >D >ENTRY START,0 >^+ >%AMAC-W-MISSINGEND, missing .END statement & >at line number 1 in file SYS$INPUT:.; >i >aJ >Then it hangs consuming CPU indefinately (I let it run for about a minuteI >and it ate about a minute of CPU time and didn't hit the end of the .COMaC >file or produce any other output). After the ^Y there is a 0 block) >$TMP$.OBJ file. >u< >The hanging is unexpected, by it's not working is expected. >n8 >The following example is more like what I had expected: >[CARL]: type foo.tmpl >$ type sys$inputt >a >b >c >$ show time >e >f >g >[CARL]: @foo.tmpe >(01:55) $ type sys$inputm >a >a >b >b >c >c >(01:55) $ show time >  14-MAR-2001 01:55:28c
 >(01:55) e? >%DCL-W-ABVERB, ambiguous command verb - supply more characterss > \E\e
 >(01:55) f? >%DCL-W-ABVERB, ambiguous command verb - supply more charactersi > \F\u
 >(01:55) g? >%DCL-W-ABVERB, ambiguous command verb - supply more characters  > \G\  >oD >This correctly bails from sys$input on the line starting with a "$"D >and it then produces the expected errors for the rest of the lines. >e! >This leaves 2 sets of questions:  > A >1) Why did you think it would work? Did you actually try runningAB >it from inside a command proceedure or only interactively? If you? >did do it and it worked, what version of VMS are you using? Ase9 >shown above it doesn't work on mine, which is 6.1 Alpha.  >kF >2) Why didn't it fail in the expected manner? It should not have hungF >consuming 100% CPU when it hit that line starting with a "$", so whatF >went wrong? Why didn't DCL parse the rest of the file in the expected >manner? >-	 >--- Carl-  G True.  But you are NOT using the code I posted.  The $CMEXEC_S does NOT E start in the leftmost column.  There is a tab (whitespace) in from of-C many of the lines.  Perhaps your newsreader hosed the format of the  text.n   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM5            eO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:55:16 GMTl= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)a" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day0 Message-ID: <009F8FDC.30480560@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ] In article <01K1781MKCQQ00B05Q@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:n& >>Why is Brian's post not posted here? >> >>D. >> >>Peter Weaver wrote:V >>> F >>> "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in6 >>> message news:009F8F2C.E25962F4@SendSpamHere.ORG... >>../..- >  >a >Where is "here"?1 >:N >If you are referring to Info-VAX, it came through to me, and obviously under & >Info-VAX or c.o.v newsgroup to Peter. >D >Regards, Paddy5 >S >Paddy O'Brien,  >Transmission Development, >TransGrid,t >PO Box A1000, Sydney South, h >NSW 2000, Australia >s >Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063h >Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050u' >Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auc >uN >Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,< >but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam. >u  H My guess, and you can thank the shitheads posting SPAM for this, is thatH the news server or some other handler rejected the "SendSpamHere.ORG" in6 my news from: address.  I'm sick of SPAM and SPAMmers.  G Since I've taken over moderating VMSnet.Employment, I have had my fill. G I've had a dialogue on-going for the past few days with one SPAMmer andJG her various abuse@ISP folks.  She is adamant and non-repentant and will H not cease posting SPAM, and her ISPs do nothing to enforce their AUP/T&CH clauses against SPAMming.  Moderating is a thankless job and when I sendH messages off to the poster and their abuse@ISP folks telling them that I7 will not forward off-topic posts, I get this in return:   8   "What a joke. I will post where I like. Go away pest."  G   "If you are so concerned about me you must need to work on yourself."Q  H   "If you are so damn bent out of shape about me posting, then you mightG    have at least had the common sense (oxymoron)to tell me which NG So e7    offended so I wouldn't waste my time there anymore."S  4   "I really could care less for your spam material."     "I will post as I wish."  *   "you lack the common sence God gave you"  H I try to get these people to see the err in their ways but all I seem toH get is personal attacks.  My guess is that most of these SPAMmers are a-G ware that they are violating the AUP/T&C of their ISPs (which I usuallyvH include when explaining why their post was forwarded to abuse@ISP).  Sad( it is what has become of the internet...   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn            0O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.r   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 2001 06:44 CSTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)I" Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day- Message-ID: <14MAR200106440972@gerg.tamu.edu>b  ! system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes...gX }In article <14MAR200102043145@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:# }>system@SendSpamHere.ORG writes...rg }>}In article <Vwrr6.154522$Z2.1938909@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:-F }>}>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in6 }>}>message news:009F8F2C.E25962F4@SendSpamHere.ORG... }>}>>..., }>}>> File DCL-MINUTE-OF-THE-CENTURY.COM is: }>}>>R( }>}>> $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT }>}>> .ENTRY START,0 }>}>> $CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=ZAP	 }>}>> RETk }>}>> .ENTRY ZAP,08 }>}>> MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPD< }>}>> MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storage? }>}>> CLRW PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; zero current DCL process levelI }>}>> MOVL #1,R0	 }>}>> RET  }>}>> .END START8 }>}>> $ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STB }>}>> $ RUN $TMP$  }>}>> $ DELETEE $TMP$.*.*y }>}>> $ EXAMINE/WORD ADR }>}>> $ SETc( }>}>> $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT }>}>> .ENTRY START,0 }>}>> $CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=SET	 }>}>> RETv }>}>> .ENTRY SET,08 }>}>> MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPD< }>}>> MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storageB }>}>> MOVW #1,PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; save current DCL process level }>}>> MOVL #1,R0	 }>}>> RET  }>}>> .END START8 }>}>> $ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STB }>}>> $ RUN $TMP$a }>}>> $ DELETEE $TMP$.*.*T }>}>>  }>}>D }>}>A minor change; to get this to work add "$DECK" after each MACRO8 }>}>command and add "$EOD" after each ".END START" line. }>}> }>}  }>}Works just fine without too.  }>}--lR }>}VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM }>
 }>Does it? }>I }>If it does, it is an inconsistency in the DCL parsing between versions.d }>G }>The "$" at the start of the line reading "$CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=SET" wouldnA }>normally terminate the input parsing and be interpreted as DCL.d }>A }>Actually, having tried it, it neither works nor fails correctlyd }>("[CARL]: " is my prompt): }> }>[CARL]: set verify }>[CARL]: type foo.com$ }>$ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT }>ENTRY START,0  }>$CMEXEC_S ROUTIN=ZAP }>RETp
 }>ENTRY ZAP,0o4 }>MOVAB G^CTL$AG_CLIDATA,R1 ; get address of the PPD8 }>MOVL PPD$L_PRC(R1),R1 ; and the adr of CLI own storage; }>CLRW PRC_W_PROCLEVEL(R1) ; zero current DCL process level  }>MOVL #1,R0 }>RETi }>END STARTt4 }>$ LINK/SYSEXE $TMP$,SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:DCLDEF.STB }>[CARL]: @foo.com, }>(01:53) $ MACRO/OBJECT=$TMP$.OBJ SYS$INPUT }>ENTRY START,0c }> }>ENTRY START,0- }>^-, }>%AMAC-W-MISSINGEND, missing .END statement' }>at line number 1 in file SYS$INPUT:.;L [... snip ...]
 }>--- Carl } H }True.  But you are NOT using the code I posted.  The $CMEXEC_S does NOTF }start in the leftmost column.  There is a tab (whitespace) in from ofD }many of the lines.  Perhaps your newsreader hosed the format of the }text. }  }--tP }VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  > Hm. Something got hosed on two different occasions. Notice how> in my post above there are a couple of lines of Macro that are? missing a leading "." (like the one the first one where it sayshA "ENTRY" where it should say ".ENTRY")? I can assure you that when-A I posted it, the dots were in there. Somebody somewhere is eatingiA some leading characters, and it may not be just my reader as your @ quote of my post is also missing the dots which should appear toB me if you got them as they are after the ">". Unless my newsreaderA parsed the output and changed it before posting it (which I don't2D think it does as I don't recall having this problem before - I couldF check, I suppose, as I have the source), it is somewhere else. PerhapsD the server I'm using - although I have been using the same sever forF several years, they could have upgraded the news software recently (as. they have been known to do from time to time).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:07:46 +0100e& From: "G.Ulrich" <ulrich@wolfsburg.de>> Subject: DECW$SERVER process crashing with ACCVIO after update, Message-ID: <3AAF18C2.731A0718@wolfsburg.de>   Hi all,I  D I have a probelm with the DECwindows server process (DWMotif V1.2-4)D I tried to upgrade an Alphastation 200 4/166 with ZLX Graphic option from OpenVMS V7.1 to V7.1-2.G After upgrading everything looked fine and the DECW$SERVER process camer up. G However, after installing the first "Rating 1" patch VMS712_UPDATE V3.0, the DECW$SERVER processFC ends immediately and the only thing I see on the screen in the "X".A  4 I looked into the patch and noticed that some of the1 DECW$SERVER*GY**.EXE files are exchanged, as wellEF as some other DECwindows-related files. I copied the original versions back but without success.)  ? The tail of the DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG tells me the following:1I =========================================================================T   ... E Screen 0  sfb+/TGA  revision # 3    8 bits/pixel   2039232 bytes VRAM $ Compiled on Mar 10 1999, at 11:42:014 ffbvmsScreenInit: Call the Default Colormap Creation- ffbvmsScreenInit: Exit from init with successN; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual : address=000000000000001D, PC=00000000010E0401, PS=7B0F14B8  H Unrecoverable server internal error (error code = 12) found, terminating all connections. Mapped Images...  -   START       END        LENGTH    IMAGE NAME_-   -----       ---        ------    ----------p2        0      201ff      201ff    DECW$SERVER_MAIN1    64000     2059ff     1a19ff    DECW$SERVER_DIXl3    22000      621ff      401ff    DECW$SECURITY_VMS 7 7b726000   7b787fff      61fff    DECW$TRANSPORT_COMMON 0 82213670   822221e0       eb70    SYS$BASE_IMAGE* 7b546000   7b5c9fff      83fff    DECC$SHR* 7b2f6000   7b3b7fff      c1fff    DPML$SHR( 7b266000   7b297fff      31fff    LIBOTS- 7b2a6000   7b2e7fff      41fff    CMA$TIS_SHRO( 7b206000   7b257fff      51fff    LIBRTL4 82203378   82204e08       1a90    SYS$PUBLIC_VECTORS@   2f8000     51a5ff     2225ff    DECW$SVEXT_ADOBE_DPS_EXTENSION0   51c000     5ed3ff      d13ff    DECW$SVEXT_XIE6   5ee000     62e3ff      403ff    DECW$SVEXT_DEC_XTRAP<   630000     6703ff      403ff    DECW$SVEXT_MULTI_BUFFERING4   672000     7331ff      c11ff    DECW$SVEXT_X3D_PEX7   734000     7945ff      605ff    DECW$SERVER_DEC_3DLIBe0   796000     8269ff      909ff    DECW$SVEXT_GLX6   828000     8683ff      403ff    DECW$SVEXT_DECSTEREO7   86c000     98d1ff     1211ff    DECW$TRANSPORT_DECNETw*   98e000     991fff       3fff    DECC$MSG+   992000     9989ff       69ff    SHRIMGMSGe3   99a000     9aa1ff      101ff    DECW$TRANSPORTMSG 6   9ac000     9ec3ff      403ff    DECW$TRANSPORT_LOCAL4   9ee000     adf3ff      f13ff    DECW$SERVER_DDX_GY7   c06000     c669ff      609ff    DECW$SERVER_DDX_CFB16L7   ae0000     b309ff      509ff    DECW$SERVER_DDX_CFB32s5   b32000     ba29ff      709ff    DECW$SERVER_DDX_CFBr5   ba4000     c047ff      607ff    DECW$SERVER_DDX_MFBs-  d012000    d0923ff      803ff    UCX$IPC_SHRa0  d094000    d154bff      c0bff    UCX$ACCESS_SHR)  d1e8000    d1f79ff       f9ff    UCX$MSGo  " Exception Call stack dump follows:         PC     IMAGE+offset of call       --     --------------------$    eb1f0     DECW$SERVER_DIX + 871f0'   6edbd8     DECW$SVEXT_X3D_PEX + 7bbd8 '   6a2734     DECW$SVEXT_X3D_PEX + 30734d$   13cd40     DECW$SERVER_DIX + d8d40%   169434     DECW$SERVER_DIX + 105434c$   1289c4     DECW$SERVER_DIX + c49c4  8 ********** marking the end of call stack dump **********8 ********************************************************  E Since I will have to install some more patches (shadowing and others)-
 which require H the UPDATE patch to be installed, I am now in a difficult situation. The available GRAPHICS patch (V4.0)yE doesn't help either, since it only refers to newer graphics hardware.a  4 Who can help me to understand and solve this issue ?   Rgds,> Goetz Ulrich   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 2001 13:44:50 GMT* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS  EducationalProgram) Pm3 Message-ID: <98nski$13f$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>   , In article <3AAEB3E0.285370BF@infopuls.com>,, 	Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> 05 >> Not to speak for the US DOD, OpenVMS, or Compaq...8 >> 0J >> DII/COE is an attempt to create a magic bullet that allows code re-use.H >> This would allow code that was written for mission X to be reused forO >> mission Y.  This hasn't really happened yet.  None the least of the problems,K >> is figuring out how those developing the code for mission X will get anyeM >> benefit (read: profit) by allowing their code to be re-used for some otherAA >> mission.  So in current use, you end up with Segments that are K >> architecture-specific (which you have anyway, since binary compatability.M >> isn't a goal), and which use vendor specific features.  BUT these guys arewI >> serious, and eventually there will be a lot of COE software in the DODa	 >> world.w >> iM >> The unfortunate aspect of DII/COE is that the design center of those doing M >> the development was Sun/Solaris (being practical, they also had to includeUH >> Windows - which has it's own features and non-features).  So what COEJ >> provides is a common look & feel for the application environment, whichL >> tends to drill down all the way to the UNIX command line interfaces.  YouM >> also have some "standards" - like POSIX and JAVA - which if people writingTB >> new segments adhere to, would allow source level compatability. >> NM >> VMS COE (the product) is not something that will be generally available toMN >> *anyone* off the street.  It is a product that includes the OS - as well as; >> the COE environment and other required layered products., >> gN >> Long term, the OS capabilities that were required, will show up in the baseK >> OS.  The intent is to make the C interfaces on VMS compatable with POSIX>O >> (more likely long term - UNIX98 or LINUX).  This will make porting code fromMM >> UNIX/Linux a simpler task - no different than any generic UNIX->UNIX port.mL >> In addition, there will also be a shell environment that would allow UNIXN >> users to get something more familiar than DCL.  Lastly are things like fileH >> system modifications that allow UNIX semantics and syntax to be used. >> tO >> This does not "replace" anything that VMS currently does, or even weaken it.DN >> All the capabilities are incremental, or supplemental.  But as always, poorK >> UNIX code will work poorly, and good UNIX code will work well.  I expectrN >> that when someone wants the code to "mesh" into a VMS environment, they mayK >> have work to do beyond a simple port - or they can choose to live with a. >> UNIX fish in a VMS pond.B >> $	 >>  _FredT >> A > j > I'm shocked. It's by far worse than I thought. This could be an important step to the real death of VMS.b > - The business effect is *very* doubtful if these COE additions are only there for DoD projects.  J Indeed, it would be, but if it helps port more software to VMS then it can have positive business effects.o   > - Writing SW for a niche is the stupidest thing you can do. SW should be sold to as many customers as possible because copying SW is almost free.   K YEP, WRITING SOFTWARE FOR NICHE MARKETS IS STUPID, WHICH IS WHY VMS IS VERYtH NEARLY DEAD.  If the COE initiative allows 'commodity' unix source to be? compiled on VMS then VMS is that much less of a niche player.      > - Offering bad ways like UNIX shells to accomplish tasks is a safe method to kill the productivity of VMS. Today we know how things are solved properly. Tomorrow we will never know.:  J Get off it.  UNIX != "bad ways", no matter how many times you keep tellingL yourself that.  Its different.  That's all.  VMS has one bad side to it:  noL matter how well designed it is, it is PROPRIETARY.  Unix, as a whole is not,M which gives it a huge advantage in my book over VMS.  With unix I can move tou5 another vendor if there are quality or cost issues.  1   > x > I'm too tired to continue this list. Every educated engineer will understand that this is a major attempt to kill VMS.  M If by "educated" you mean "anything but pure VMS is evil and we don't need totI be interoperable with anyone but ourselves", then I guess you're right.      > My hope and wish: the good VMS engineers stay with the normal version. The COE version will be so crappy and full of bugs that it will never be usable.n  N This is an interesting statement.  So, anything Unixy is so inheritly unstableH that just by implementing it brings the whole OS down?  You're on crack.L If they do a shit-awful job of bringing unix services to vms, then its their own damned fault.  Period.    J Attitudes like this is why VMS is dead.  Its a wonder that TCP/IP was everG added to VMS with attitudes like this....DECNet is the pure networking  2 protocol!  LAT is the way to true enlightenment!    I WAIT A MINUTE!  If VMS is so great, and unix so bad, why is it that I spy  this line in your headers:  7 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.36 i586)E  H Huh.  Looks like you're just a troll...or a hypocrite.  Not only are you6 using a unix to do your mail, you're doing it on a PC.   Ugh. Briana   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:37:05 GMTS  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) Ed<8 Message-ID: <0e7vatcqukcq8c37gvi60mr0pk7tpt3un3@4ax.com>  < On 13 Mar 2001 20:29:24 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  E >In article <OF09C3AB29.DFEC57D4-ON88256A0E.0062BCBA@foundation.com>,d% > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:s >|> 5 >|> 19970? I don't think Unix will last that long....e >iB >Anybody here remember the September 1992 issue of Byte magazine?? >e' >Front cover headline:  "Is Unix Dead?"v >w: >And Unix's demise has been predicted time and time again.- >And it is still going, stronger than ever.    > 8 >To bad someone doesn't write a similar article for VMS.  >Any press is better than none!! >3 >billE  E What you mean?!! I've seen many, many "VMS is Dead" articles over thep. years... especially from the likes of Gartner.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2001 01:05:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) Ede- Message-ID: <878zm8s2lv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>P  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:S    I OK Bill, at least on reader here may have his memory tickled. The lack of H headers is deliberate. See, the arguments are standard, even if they are not on the stack.t ====  C > I've met "commodity computing". What DEC is doing isn't commodityA> > computing.  I'm not sure what it is. It *could* be commodityD > computing, if the folks who live and breathe the "We're DEC. We'reF > better. We charge more because we're DEC and we're better" got RIF'd= > instead of the folks down in the trenches, it might happen.t  F A hearty second to that. The ability of dec marketing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...   F >> And when commodity computing doesn't have the features to provide aD >> solution then there's OpenVMS, or some other OS that does provide5 >> the lowest cost computing for the feature desired.o   Interesting comment.  F > Getting back to the original topic, I remember when VMS V5 came out,D > how everyone was going "anybody get it yet" and was really excitedA > about the upgrade. With V6 it seems to be more of a "yawn - bigmE > deal". This single change shows the attitude adjustment - customersoF > no longer live and breathe for DEC announcements / products. WhetherD > the customer is an all-DEC shop or not is unimporatant - the level( > of interest just isn't there any more.  F >   I have seen more dissatisfaction with DEC in this past year than IF > have ever seen in the past. Even my site (a DEC customer since 1960)E > has a plan in operation to remove all of our DEC computing within 5mD > years, simply be- cause DEC is too much of a pain to deal with andB > (frankly) can't be trusted any more. And since we've started theD > transition, we've found that even the new, commodity-priced DEC is$ > utterly uncompetitive, price-wise.  F Well a yawn is a WIN. Except for alpha, I think many would throw theirE v6 kit in the bin. The reaction I have seen is "Oh S***, not already"-    > Dec does not need OpenVMS. It needs VMS on a VLC, with decnet,F clustering and the 'base products' for <$5k. Preferable less than $3k,B because, if they want the alpha to be a major player in the market3 they need to be dropping that on the desk for <$5k.>  < And a small system, like a 4000-90 should not be a lot more.  D $50 a pop applications would help LOTS as well. As would bundeling aD heap of compilers with vms. These people are a shrinking market, butD they provide the leverage and software that sells systems. Or do you= want MS and Borland and the nice halfos people to do that ;-)D  8 You DON'T need NT, and you definatly don't need windoze.   ~PaulN  O   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.>@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:55:26 +0000L  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Edu>H Message-ID: <OFB16FE0E4.B7AA644C-ON80256A0F.005CD2EA@qedi.quintiles.com>  F But I seem to remember that even Gartner are looking on VMS positively these days.e Times do indeed change.... Steve.    ( jlsue (jlsuexxxz at home dot com) wrote: >>>-E What you mean?!! I've seen many, many "VMS is Dead" articles over theM. years... especially from the likes of Gartner. <<<t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:48:55 +0000h  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) ProlH Message-ID: <OF6832238D.A91A359A-ON80256A0F.003E7DE0@qedi.quintiles.com>   Christof Brass wrote:RB >>>I'm shocked. It's by far worse than I thought. This could be an( important step to the real death of VMS.H - The business effect is *very* doubtful if these COE additions are only there for DoD projects.LH - Writing SW for a niche is the stupidest thing you can do. SW should beH sold to as many customers as possible because copying SW is almost free.I - Offering bad ways like UNIX shells to accomplish tasks is a safe method:D to kill the productivity of VMS. Today we know how things are solved& properly. Tomorrow we will never know.  A I'm too tired to continue this list. Every educated engineer wills4 understand that this is a major attempt to kill VMS.J My hope and wish: the good VMS engineers stay with the normal version. TheD COE version will be so crappy and full of bugs that it will never be usable.s <<<r  C So giving the DoD the functionality that they require and giving aniD extended commitment to support and development of OpenVMS is a major+ attempt to kill OpenVMS?  Interesting idea.hK If v7.2-6C1 (in its final form) is so "crappy and full of bugs that it will G never be usable" then this effectively removes it from the DII COE genesJ pool and leads to the removal of the reason for Compaq giving the extended> commitment to OpenVMS with all that this removal might entail.  D The OpenVMS part of the DII COE work will be folded into the generalH OpenVMS stream on Alpha in a version after 7.3 (as yet un-named) so it's _not_ a niche market product.r  K Maybe it would be worth looking at the presentations which are available ondG the Compaq web site to understand a bit more of what DII COE complianceoG means, how it's to be achieved and what the changes in the base OS are.u  
 They are at : 7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/o  , There's a more general look at strategy at :, http://www.openvms.compaq.com/presentations/ Steve.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:20:15 -0500 2 From: "Jason McCormick" <jason.mccormick@lexi.com> Subject: HP Printer on VMS 6.22 Message-ID: <3aafb655$0$5744@wodc7nh0.news.uu.net>  K   Hello, I'm trying to create some TLBs for an HP printer and was wondering L if anyone could help me out.  We have Pager, which is a typesetting program.K It creates Postscript-formatted documents.  These documents are legal-paperoK sized (8.5 X 14).  However they will not print to the tray with legal paperhL in it so I'm trying to write a module to be specified at print time with theL /setup() function.  I have many working ASCII modules I wrote using PCL thatL print legal and duplex but they don't seem to traslate well into wrapping PSK jobs.  In a nutshell, I guess I'm asking for how to make a legal-size paper L formatted PS job print on legal paper from "Tray 3" and also be able to turn, on the duplexer as needed.  Can anyone help?   Thanks,= Jason McCormick= jason.mccormick@lexi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2001 00:26:51 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: Re: Low cost server - Sun, of course - Message-ID: <87elw0s4dw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  E > Compaq is never going to give us the long desired "PC VMS", or even8F > "PC Alpha", but the days of "PC Solaris" have clearly arrived.  WithE > this system and the new Sun Blade 100 the price premium for SolarisNE > hardware is now only a few hundred dollars more than for a PC.  And E > they'll give you Solaris, whereas you have to buy W2K, so the price > > differential to a running system is really very small - it'sD > essentially a dead heat. Ok, the Sun won't be as fast as the IntelE > solution of the same cost, but the point is that you can now deploy9D > a new Sun for the same cost as a new PC.  Would that the same were > true for Alpha.f  5 I think Sun has pulled a brilliant move with the 100.   D It get into the PC price bracket, and in many companies is under the* purchase approval ceiling. Just go buy it.  ; It is no bleeding edge speedy, but should be 'fast enough'.1  D The PHBs can 'upgrade' it with a bill in a slot card so they can win at solitare.  C IF Sun get native apps running and get them stable and secure, thenEE people can get BETTER results by running native instead of billyshit. + And other in the office will show them how.   D The beast is locked onto the PCI card. All argument stop at the bus,A and if there is any finger pointing, pull the card and see if the  damage goes away.E  C Sun can back foot the PCI PC. "Well, yes, we have to 'cause so many > people want it, but it is not the recomended way..." Plausible1 deniability and access to the M$ apps in one hit!T  B Unis will love it. Sun and affordable. Just like the bad old days.  C It could kill T64 stone dead, despite IMO T64 being the best of theb current unix crew.   -- R< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.D@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:12:37 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>- Subject: Re: Low cost server - Sun, of course8< Message-ID: <pwOr6.3789$mH4.1592917@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messaged' news:87elw0s4dw.fsf@prep.synonet.com...c6 > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: >gG > > Compaq is never going to give us the long desired "PC VMS", or even*H > > "PC Alpha", but the days of "PC Solaris" have clearly arrived.  WithG > > this system and the new Sun Blade 100 the price premium for Solaris G > > hardware is now only a few hundred dollars more than for a PC.  And G > > they'll give you Solaris, whereas you have to buy W2K, so the price @ > > differential to a running system is really very small - it'sF > > essentially a dead heat. Ok, the Sun won't be as fast as the IntelG > > solution of the same cost, but the point is that you can now deployDF > > a new Sun for the same cost as a new PC.  Would that the same were > > true for Alpha.$  G If you hold your breath waiting for that to happen with Alpha, you will,K become as cyanotic as the Blue Men spokes-mimes on Intel's Unobtainium site0J at www.itanium.com (Said mimes are blue because they've been holding their" breath waiting for IA-64 to ship). >h7 > I think Sun has pulled a brilliant move with the 100.  >tF > It get into the PC price bracket, and in many companies is under the, > purchase approval ceiling. Just go buy it. >i= > It is no bleeding edge speedy, but should be 'fast enough'.  >   H Indeed. Recall when Sun brought out the original $2K Darwin workstation.I They met the peecee price point then, and continue to do so. And kudos to F Scott McNealy for strong-arming the Unix ISVs into reducing their apps& prices to ensure Windoze price parity.  J Whether you like, dislike, or could care less one way or t'other about SunJ Microsystems, you have to admit that they are not stupid or short-sighted.- The firm's success is by no means accidental.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:00:48 +0000e  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com" Subject: Re: Low cost workstationsH Message-ID: <OF6A2B3CA7.0BD8801D-ON80256A0F.0041ACC0@qedi.quintiles.com>  I I put up my hand.  I have heard of it, was aware that some of the systemscI had migrated off OpenVMS VAX onto Alphas running Tru64 (or Digital Unix /d OSF as it still was then).  E I also know of at least one site that held a couple of MicroVAX 3400s I around so that they could be used as MOP servers for some DECservers thatl were on site.......    Steve.  8 Paul Repacholi (prep at prep dot synonet dot com) wrote:E >>>Now hand up the person other than Tim who has heard of STARLINK...n? This is a mongo collection of software for astronomers, TeX forh) instance is just one small package of it.   C In 90, it ran on VMS, Unixes and prob a few others. VMS was KILLED.N@ Support pulled, shutdowns mandated. I guess Tim can provide moreA details than I. In fact, the Starlink Newsletter From RAL had the>" elimination of VMS as a lead item.  ? And it is still going on. Not as blatent perhaps, but every dayo& another package drops off the edge.<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:14:21 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>a" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <3AAF609C.43A20BCE@infopuls.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:l > J > In article <98li72$1k40$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote: > P > > In article <rdeininger-1303010159480001@user-2ive7ps.dialup.mindspring.com>,9 > >  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:r > L > > The university won't risk the hassle and I won't risk my job.  When (if)L > > Compaq decides to legally clarify this situation, that would be one lessM > > roadblock.  But they have chosen to remain silent up to this point.  ThatfK > > tells most of us that they meant exactly what they said in the originald > > license. > L > About the only other suggestion I have is to ask your in-house legal folksF > to put the questions to Compaq on your behalf.  That might provoke aJ > response, or maybe not.  But I suspect you don't care about it enough to
 > push it. > K > Do you take the linux GPL over to you legal department and ask them to ok.  > what you are doing with linux? >  > K > > |> > I can buy a brand new P3 with a warranty and everything for ~$700.y	 > I can't L > > |> > imagine getting a functional Alpha capable of running VMS for that. > > |>M > > |> You can _easily_ get a functional alpha workstation with a monitor forwL > > |> $250 to $300, complete.  It won't be a recent model.  It won't have a, > > |> warranty, but will be well broken in. > >hN > > Do you honestly think that the beancounters see it that way??  You can buyL > > old junk or you can buy new equipment.  One has a warranty and the otherL > > can't be repaired for less than full replacement cost.  This isn't goingQ > > into my basement, it's going into what constitutes the offices of a business.n > I > Ok, you have no discretion on purchases, even when you will support theaI > equipment.  It's pretty pointless to offer suggestions to you.  I guessrK > you should ask your bean-counters to post _their_ objections.  PresumablypL > they have no use for VMS either, since they've not heard of it.  Will they) > listen to your judgement on that topic?i >  > > |> > And oneI > > |> > box does not make a lab.  And if the lab is full of PeeCees, why  > would anyoneK > > |> > using it bother to log into a remote Alpha when all the tools theyo
 > need are% > > |> > right there on the desktop??  > > |>8 > > |> I thought the point was to learn something new... > >wN > > And how precisely does having an Alpha with no tools offer a better chanceQ > > of doing that than a PC with Win2000 with all the available common packages??iM > > Everything the student does is learning, but they need to tools to do it.tK > > What would you have them writting their thesis with?? LSE in a DECTerm?; > K > No, I would use LaTeX and vi in a DECterm, but maybe I'm peculiar.  ThereoK > are a number of other options...  "Alpha with no tools" is unsupportable..F > You would think folks haven't been doing real work on VMS these past+ > 20-odd years.  Have we all been dreaming?  > L > How did we get to this point in the thread?  I thought you had expressed aH > least a passing interest in using VMS in the classroom.  I've tried toK > offer suggestions in that direction.  You keep putting up new objections.  > J > Presumably you knew what tools are available on VMS a few days ago, whenH > you expressed interest.  If lack of tools was a show-stopper then, whyI > were you interested?  Why did you imply that cost was the show-stopper?fI > Why do you care about the cost of VMS, when you seem to exclude it fromi# > every activity for other reasons?d > K > > See above.  What DECWindows program are they going to use to type their O > > thesis??  How about UML tools??  Is there an equivalent to Visio?? RationalbP > > Rose??  Is there even an equivalent to Netscape??  Work needs to be done andI > > done in a timely fashion.  A lot gets covered each semester.  Without-O > > reasonable productivity tools, the boxes would merely occupy valuable spaceoN > > and never see any use.  getting VMS back into academia is not as simple asD > > buying some used  Alphas and setting them up in a lab somewhere. > I > Weren't we talking about student porting projects, with assistance fromeH > faculty?  Pretty pointless to discuss it; if you want all the softwareD > before you start, there's nothing left to port.  I didn't advocateI > replacing your beloved billy-boxes, but I think you could likely fit inAH > some exposure to non-herd-follower stuff like VMS.  I guess you reallyH > don't want to do that, and will find some reason to avoid it no matter1 > what.  Or maybe you're just in an arguin' mood.t > M > > You hire them every day.  I would bet that less than 10% of CS grads havesM > > any experience with VMS at all and I would bet the number is closer to 1%v0 > > that have any significant experince with it. > G > I'm not referring to hiring VMS experience.  I was thinking about the K > possiblity of hiring folks who can think, who don't need to be spoon fed,rI > who are willing to work with non-faddish tools when appropriate.  And Ie" > don't hire anyone at this point. > G > I wonder if too much reliance on the tool-of-the-moment will hurt therG > students in the long run.  The tools will be gone in a few years; thecJ > concepts and mode of thinking about a problem will still be useful.  I'mL > saying this as a criticism of your CS program, since I don't know anythingH > about it.  I've seen students from other places who seems to have this > handicap.  > F > My electronics professor complained that when he was in school, theyF > taught him everything about vacuum tubes, at the expense of teachingE > general electronics concepts.  He promised not to teach us the gorys8 > details of the then-current generation of transistors. > K > For example, a student who finds Rational Rose useful ought to be able tonK > get some mileage out of the VMS software development tools.  If he can't,tD > I think he's being mis-educated.  So I don't think the lack of theL > identical tool with identical features is a valid complaint.  Teaching theD > appropriate use of a category of tool is pretty platform-neurtral;A > teaching a particular tool to the exclusion of others is risky.l > K > Are you turning out students who are helpless without all these tools?  IkG > hope not, and I doubt it is the case.  Maybe your words went a littley > overboard above? > I > > Sure you can. You can try to convince Compaq that serious support forsI > > education is important and worth their attention.  You can try to getgH > > enough businesses who share this vision together to work on possibleI > > solutions.  If Compaq won't take the initiative those who rely on the I > > continued existence of VMS may have to.  One thing is certain, people-I > > like me don't occupy high enough positions in academia to do anything9H > > from this side.  A total lack of VMS in our labs does not affect the7 > > bottom line, so there is no incentive to change it.l > I > I don't have a direct line to Compaq.  I'm much lower on the totem pole I > than you are, and have no budget for anything, not just VMS. I look form@ > constructive ways to promote VMS, but I rarely see any nearby. >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com2   THNX! THNX! THNX!>   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 2001 14:09:12 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <98nu28$2o3t$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  0 In article <w53ae6pe4hy.fsf@lanark.spa.umn.edu>,4  Graham Allan <allan@physics.umn.edu.nospam> writes:6 |> bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |> 5N |> > |> You can _easily_ get a functional alpha workstation with a monitor forM |> > |> $250 to $300, complete.  It won't be a recent model.  It won't have a.- |> > |> warranty, but will be well broken in.> |> > iO |> > Do you honestly think that the beancounters see it that way??  You can buybM |> > old junk or you can buy new equipment.  One has a warranty and the other M |> > can't be repaired for less than full replacement cost.  This isn't goingWR |> > into my basement, it's going into what constitutes the offices of a business. |> sL |> I find it strange that your beancounters won't let you buy used equipmentO |> with no warranty but they're perfectly happy to let you run all your serversy  |> on free open source software!  J Because the used equipment isn't free.  If money is going to change hands,J they expect to see real value for the money.  They do not see that in usedG unknown equipment.  Budgets are planned years ahead and there is littlesK provision for surprises.  New equipment with a warranty provides that.  AndeJ when you figure that the new equipment is frequently cheaper as well, whatG would you expect them to buy??  And no, we can not buy or sell on Ebay.sI Our purchasing department can only deal in traditional business methods,  H which include needing a legitimate business address for the companies weH send money to.  I once needed a VME SCSI card for an old Sun.  I found aH guy on the net who would sell me one for $25.  I ended out buying it outI of my own pocket.  You can laugh all you want, non-profits have IRS rules . even tougher than government procurement regs.  L If no money is going to change hands (as in the free OS) no beancounter gets- involved.  I get to decide and act on my own.t   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:12:17 GMTp= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations0 Message-ID: <009F8FF7.B64C62F3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <98nu28$2o3t$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:1 >In article <w53ae6pe4hy.fsf@lanark.spa.umn.edu>,B5 > Graham Allan <allan@physics.umn.edu.nospam> writes: 7 >|> bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:a >|> O >|> > |> You can _easily_ get a functional alpha workstation with a monitor for N >|> > |> $250 to $300, complete.  It won't be a recent model.  It won't have a. >|> > |> warranty, but will be well broken in. >|> > P >|> > Do you honestly think that the beancounters see it that way??  You can buyN >|> > old junk or you can buy new equipment.  One has a warranty and the otherN >|> > can't be repaired for less than full replacement cost.  This isn't goingS >|> > into my basement, it's going into what constitutes the offices of a business.n >|> M >|> I find it strange that your beancounters won't let you buy used equipmentmP >|> with no warranty but they're perfectly happy to let you run all your servers! >|> on free open source software!y >eK >Because the used equipment isn't free.  If money is going to change hands,dK >they expect to see real value for the money.  They do not see that in usedeH >unknown equipment.  Budgets are planned years ahead and there is littleL >provision for surprises.  New equipment with a warranty provides that.  AndK >when you figure that the new equipment is frequently cheaper as well, whataH >would you expect them to buy??  And no, we can not buy or sell on Ebay.J >Our purchasing department can only deal in traditional business methods, I >which include needing a legitimate business address for the companies we.I >send money to.  I once needed a VME SCSI card for an old Sun.  I found atI >guy on the net who would sell me one for $25.  I ended out buying it outnJ >of my own pocket.  You can laugh all you want, non-profits have IRS rules?                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^????a/ >even tougher than government procurement regs.e >pM >If no money is going to change hands (as in the free OS) no beancounter gets'. >involved.  I get to decide and act on my own. >b >billa >o >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves E >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.v >University of Scranton   | B >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>     H You you trying to claim that the University of Scranton is a non-profit  organization?  a --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            sO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.b   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 2001 15:54:15 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations, Message-ID: <98o477$2ra3$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  0 In article <009F8FF7.B64C62F3@SendSpamHere.ORG>,@  system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: |> l |> aK |> You you trying to claim that the University of Scranton is a non-profit o |> organization?    A Of course it's a non-profit organization.  Just like every other  ? school run by the Catholic Church.   If it weren't for generousdA donations from various people expnasion would be impossible.  Any-C change in the number of students registered has an immediate effectl on our operating budgets.      bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 23:37:12 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: Low cost workstations- Message-ID: <87n1aos6on.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  3 nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:n  E >    Yes, it's something like that. In my specific case I want to puttC > VMS on 3 Alphaserver 1000s that were donated to the CSc deparmentbD > though, so the workstation count is not relevant. Adding 3 serversA > to CSLG would push me to the next pricing tier and increase the B > annual cost by several thousand dollars ( not a lot in the grandF > scheme of things, but too much when the department isn't really sure- > they want to use VMS for anything anyway ).b  D Look at the definition of workstation. Here, if it has a video, it's. a WS for CSLG. An S3 will reduce your problem.  > BUT check your conditions: CSLG varies quite a bit by country!   -- p< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 14 Mar 01 10:56:37 GMTo From: jmfbahciv@aol.comIH Subject: Re: Marlboro men, was:  Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?, Message-ID: <98nnfp$hkh$11@bob.news.rcn.net>  - In article <87lmq9fxpu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,e0    Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > 
 >> In articlelD >> <y4hf0xokkk.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, JanG >> Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:t >s8 >> >mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: >u@ >> >> It's just plain nuts to spend $9B on what is essentially aE >> >> technology company - and then drive all the technologists away.i >T> >> >I had always thought Compaq had bought DEC for its service
 >> >division.  > B >> They did.  Everything that could be sold in the other areas was >> before Compaq bought it.s > C >As opposed to the service div, wich they trashed after the sale...r >a That's the rumor.d  ? I don't know what they did, but customers aren't happy with it.a   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:28:24 GMTt# From: Mark Hemker <hemker@home.com>d Subject: Merging multiple disksD8 Message-ID: <mrouatoenvenks54e4bcdpjqsqenlr32h3@4ax.com>  D I am going to be migrating to some new disks this weekend and I needA to merge the contents from multiple disks onto a single new disk. D Does anyone have any suggestions on the best/fastest way to do this?? Some of the disks have the same directory names and file names.a   Any help would be appreciated.   Thanks,< Mark Hemkers   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:58:23 +0000i  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com# Subject: Re: Merging multiple disks$H Message-ID: <OF9D6758E8.ECBF7AE8-ON80256A0F.00465426@qedi.quintiles.com>  I Depends what the disks are, how big they are, whether they include system@8 disks or just user data with no alias entries and so on.  C If they just contain user files I might be tempted to create rooted D directory logical names so that if one has DISK$USER1 and DISK$USER2 merging onto DKA200 you'd have< $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTE=(CONCEALED) DISK$USER1 DKA200:[USER1.]h< $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTE=(CONCEALED) DISK$USER2 DKA200:[USER2.]   I Then you could refer to DISK$USER1:[JOHN.DOE] or DISK$USER2:[JANE.DOE] aseJ you would have done previously.  You could also move the DISK$USER1 "disk"K and the DISK$USER2 "disk" to other devices at various times, depending upon E usage, free disk space, speed of access, growth rate etc etc etc etc.o  I For a user disk with no aliased file entries I'd transfer the files usingPJ BACKUP, either doing straight disk to disk backups from [000000...] or, ifE this was not feasible, do a backup to a saveset and then transfer the  saveset.  . There are, obviously, other options available. Steve.   Mark Hemker wrote:G >>>I am going to be migrating to some new disks this weekend and I needrA to merge the contents from multiple disks onto a single new disk. D Does anyone have any suggestions on the best/fastest way to do this?? Some of the disks have the same directory names and file names.  <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:11:39 +0200o/ From: "Oleksii Krykun" <krikun@academy.kiev.ua>e# Subject: Re: Merging multiple disksoQ Message-ID: <1037270357C4D411A1C900A0C9D4BFCB15B568@hqnts40div01.academy.kiev.ua>t  " $ BACKUP OLD_DISK1:[*...] NEW_DISK. $ BACKUP/NEW_VERSION OLD_DISK2:[*...] NEW_DISK  J For files with same name in same directory BACKUP will produce new version of file.I If you don't want copy files from directories with same name on differenttJ disks into same directory on a new disk you can create different directory5 trees on a new disk, e.g. NEW_DISK:[OLD_DISK1...] and>H NEW_DISK:[OLD_DISK2...] and copy files from appropriate disks into these directories.  0 "Mark Hemker" <hemker@home.com> wrote in message2 news:mrouatoenvenks54e4bcdpjqsqenlr32h3@4ax.com...F > I am going to be migrating to some new disks this weekend and I needC > to merge the contents from multiple disks onto a single new disk.aF > Does anyone have any suggestions on the best/fastest way to do this?A > Some of the disks have the same directory names and file names.n >h  > Any help would be appreciated. > 	 > Thanks, 
 > Mark Hemker    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:35:21 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t# Subject: Re: Merging multiple disks', Message-ID: <3AAFB9E8.7DD01380@videotron.ca>  I > >>>I am going to be migrating to some new disks this weekend and I neediC > to merge the contents from multiple disks onto a single new disk.e  K Don't forget that if you have users whose SYS$LOGIN is on some of the disksiM that are to be removed, you may want to update the user authorisation file totG change their /DEVICE, or at the very least, make sure that you create a H logical name that redirects accesses to the old drives to the new drive.  N Also, you'll have to be careful about the queue manager. Entries are stored byJ file-id, so when you move the files to the new disk, the batch queues willK still point to the old files on the old drives. One possible solution is topJ keep the old drives on-line to let a cycle of batch jobs run and when they@ resubmit themselves, they should be submitting the new location.  M You also have to be quite careful about any software package that has its own I configuration files or startup that defines logicals to ensure that thosed reflect the new locations.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:05:56 GMTs2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>* Subject: Re: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.16 Message-ID: <UvGr6.11644$a3.23990@typhoon.aracnet.com>   sms@antinode.org wrote:pA >    I agree.  VMS V7.3 and TCPIP V5.1 seem to offer a convenients: > opportunity for a new kit.  (What's Compaq C up to now?)  L I'd personally prefer to see the next Hobbyist release be V7.2-1 or -2 if it should come out before.w  C >    I appreciate all the work that went into prying a hobbyist VMSlJ > program out of the vendor, but it does not compare very well against theC > Tru64 program, or Solaris, for that matter.  (What's the compilerl  G Unfortunatly overall I've got to agree.  Which stinks, as I prefer VMS.u  D > situation on Solaris?  Anyone know?  It's not obvious that the $75C > Solaris kit includes anything from the Forte package, or whatevers  > they're calling it this week.)  J You know, I honestly don't know.  I've got Solaris 7 & 8, but I'm still onI 2.6 as it supports my hardware better.  As for a compilier, I didn't lookeK any further than gcc.  I believe, however, that if you want thier compiliere it'll cost big bucks.    			Zanei   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:09:12 +0000d  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com* Subject: Re: Obtaining 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.1H Message-ID: <OF3051DF25.CA1F3DFC-ON80256A0F.004D81F5@qedi.quintiles.com>  H Don't know whether the Sun compilers do cost big bucks or not but you'veI just gotta love a company that doesn't sell software to make money on it. F Their argument is something like it's only a convenience to users..... Steve.   Zane H. Healy wrote:J >>>You know, I honestly don't know.  I've got Solaris 7 & 8, but I'm still onI 2.6 as it supports my hardware better.  As for a compilier, I didn't lookuK any further than gcc.  I believe, however, that if you want thier compiliert it'll cost big bucks.<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:55:47 +0000i0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program* Message-ID: <3AAF4023.C28A457F@uk.sun.com>  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > J > From a technical point of view, as you say, we have no concrete details.J > Let's see what VMS Engineering deliver first. From a real world point ofL > view, COE certification is intended to garner a larger userbase for VMS inJ > the military, guarantee its survival for many years to come, and lead toL > more apps becoming available. These are all extremely important right now.H > Keeping VMS "pure" (for want of a better word) is NOT going to keep itI > alive. You only have to look at Windows to see how much weight an idealcF > design has in the current market - it's crap but it rules the world. > K > This is a fight for survival. We can't afford the luxury of anyone's ideat> > of a perfect environment. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's. >   4 The sad thing about this discussion is that it isn't4 remotely new. Every year or so someone suggests that0 OpenVMS should support some UNIXism which would 1 make it easier to get UNIX apps to run on OpenVMSw/ and every year someone else complains that this . would compromise the architectural purity that is OpenVMS.   2 Since the architectural purity is at best arguable4 it is difficult to see how this negative approach is2 remotely helpfull to OpenVMS itself. It needs apps1 to save it from extinction, the apps it needs areu2 mostly developed on UNIX so anything that makes it/ easier to get those apps onto OpenVMS has to bes a good thing for OpenVMS.g  . Exactly the same scenario has been played out . with Java, on one side people have complained 0 justifiably about Compaqs poor support for Java . on OpenVMS because it makes it more difficult . to get Java apps to run. On the other side the1 negativitists argue that Java is crap (generally  1 because they don't have a clue) so why would you >. want to pollute OpenVMS by running Java on it.  1 OpenVMS supporting COE is only one step, it wouldf3 make it easier to port apps. But anyone who things W3 that it is the magic button is deluding themselves,u2 Compaq will need to vastly improve their marketing1 they will need to offer ISV's other incentives tod0 get their apps onto OpenVMS. COE support without0 the ISV programs from Compaq will not result in - the flood of apps that people are hoping for.e   Regardsn Andrew Harrisony Enterprise IT Architect,   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:00:04 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program< Message-ID: <EPKr6.3594$mH4.1449606@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messagel$ news:3AAF4023.C28A457F@uk.sun.com...$ > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > > L > > From a technical point of view, as you say, we have no concrete details.L > > Let's see what VMS Engineering deliver first. From a real world point ofK > > view, COE certification is intended to garner a larger userbase for VMSe inL > > the military, guarantee its survival for many years to come, and lead toI > > more apps becoming available. These are all extremely important right  now.J > > Keeping VMS "pure" (for want of a better word) is NOT going to keep itK > > alive. You only have to look at Windows to see how much weight an ideal H > > design has in the current market - it's crap but it rules the world. > >eH > > This is a fight for survival. We can't afford the luxury of anyone's idea@ > > of a perfect environment. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's. > >  >d6 > The sad thing about this discussion is that it isn't6 > remotely new. Every year or so someone suggests that1 > OpenVMS should support some UNIXism which wouldc3 > make it easier to get UNIX apps to run on OpenVMS61 > and every year someone else complains that this$0 > would compromise the architectural purity that
 > is OpenVMS.w >e4 > Since the architectural purity is at best arguable6 > it is difficult to see how this negative approach is4 > remotely helpfull to OpenVMS itself. It needs apps3 > to save it from extinction, the apps it needs arel4 > mostly developed on UNIX so anything that makes it1 > easier to get those apps onto OpenVMS has to be  > a good thing for OpenVMS.t >b/ > Exactly the same scenario has been played outh/ > with Java, on one side people have complaineda1 > justifiably about Compaqs poor support for Java / > on OpenVMS because it makes it more difficult 0 > to get Java apps to run. On the other side the2 > negativitists argue that Java is crap (generally2 > because they don't have a clue) so why would you0 > want to pollute OpenVMS by running Java on it. >n3 > OpenVMS supporting COE is only one step, it woulda4 > make it easier to port apps. But anyone who things5 > that it is the magic button is deluding themselves,B4 > Compaq will need to vastly improve their marketing3 > they will need to offer ISV's other incentives tof2 > get their apps onto OpenVMS. COE support without1 > the ISV programs from Compaq will not result int/ > the flood of apps that people are hoping for.u >e   Well stated, Andrew!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:03:46 -0600e+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>u( Subject: RE: OpenVMS Educational ProgramL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD5468@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]o  4 > Since the architectural purity is at best arguable6 > it is difficult to see how this negative approach is4 > remotely helpfull to OpenVMS itself. It needs apps3 > to save it from extinction, the apps it needs are 4 > mostly developed on UNIX so anything that makes it1 > easier to get those apps onto OpenVMS has to bes > a good thing for OpenVMS.   F I actually see you agreeing here with a couple of people with whom youK usually have pretty violent disagreements.  For what it's worth, I agree as J well -- if it's done properly. (and I see no reason for VMS engineering to do it incorrectly)  0 > Exactly the same scenario has been played out 0 > with Java, on one side people have complained 2 > justifiably about Compaqs poor support for Java 0 > on OpenVMS because it makes it more difficult 0 > to get Java apps to run. On the other side the3 > negativitists argue that Java is crap (generally  3 > because they don't have a clue) so why would you t0 > want to pollute OpenVMS by running Java on it.  H Well, in defense of the people who don't like Java, it's hardly a viableI solution for anything more than displaying animations on your web-page atsH this point. :) (Sounds extreme, but bear with me)  It's got several goodH points, and the language isn't half bad, but until you can run a seriousI java app on a modern CPU it will be next to useless.  Sometimes I believecH that Java does too much automatically to ever get around to running your program.  3 > OpenVMS supporting COE is only one step, it wouldl5 > make it easier to port apps. But anyone who things m5 > that it is the magic button is deluding themselves,h4 > Compaq will need to vastly improve their marketing  J Well... yeah. :)  But you suppose everyone's looking for the magic bullet?  3 > they will need to offer ISV's other incentives tos2 > get their apps onto OpenVMS. COE support without2 > the ISV programs from Compaq will not result in / > the flood of apps that people are hoping for.l  J Honestly if it got about three inches of apps (how brits measure rainfall, anyway? :) that would be fine.   Regards,   Chrisu  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developers Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  's   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:21:12 +0000e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in... * Message-ID: <3AAF4618.E451F705@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:52:04 +0000, andrew harrisonl# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:g >  > >c > >> "I saw one that was black"  > >> "No, it's blue."a( > >> "No, it's black.  See, here it is." > >> "That's not the one." > >> > >n' > >As with all our discussions the joke 
 > >is on you.C > F > Not exactly.  I merely pointed out that you are prone to using vagueD > language.  I *never* said the problems didn't exist, only that youH > used vague notions to say they do exist.  And that is exactly what you > did in the previous reply. >   2 So you were not trying to discredit my response by. claiming it was vague with a set of vague and / allegations of your own and ad-hominem attacks :' which as it turned out were untrue !!!!j  - Forgive me for my cynicism but your responseso. in the past have almost always fallen into the7 "what he says is true, but the message is uncomfortablee1 so lets try to discredit the messenger" category.   + Sadly this exchange has been no different. r    C > And still, I don't  see anything in there that says whether we'reJH > prone to those attacks.  You *assume* that we are, but I see no proof.C > And if the solution for other vendors is outside of their systems F > (i.e., add firewalls), then I don't see why OpenVMS shouldn't adviseF > the same (though I still haven't seen where that advice comes from).  8 Read the advisories, it would help. If you had you would8 discover that IBM and Sun for example provided fixes for6 their respective OS's which do not require a Firewall.  ; For Land/Teardrop read the then search for Land on Compaqs e9 Website, there is no mention in the advisory that OpenVMS 8 is vunerable but the vunerability is well documented in 2 Compaqs own literature. Or is the Wizard wrong ???    I How about Ping of Death. The POD advisory was orgionally another OpenVMS eD free zone causing at least one poster to believe that OpenVMS wasn't> vunerable. Due probably to Hoff Hoffman's sharp jab in the eyeA this has been updated and we know find that OpenVMS was vunerablen
 all along.  < If you are an OpenVMS advocate then I would advise steering : well clear of any mentions of CERT, its a shambles from an OpenVMS standpoint.   = Note I am not making any suggestions that OpenVMS is insecure : but at least on the basis of CERT any claims for OpenVMS's8 security relative to any other OS (Ok you can exclude NT here) is anecdotal at best.M     Regardsl Andrew Harrison- Enterprise IT ArchitectO   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:11:52 GMT   From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>) Subject: Re: Possible security hole in...l8 Message-ID: <895vatol1l1dsnjg157b1e6apemegiabiv@4ax.com>  3 On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:21:12 +0000, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:   
 >jlsue wrote:e >>  6 >> On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:52:04 +0000, andrew harrison$ >> <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >> . >> >  >> >> "I saw one that was black" >> >> "No, it's blue.") >> >> "No, it's black.  See, here it is."t >> >> "That's not the one."S >> >>: >> >( >> >As with all our discussions the joke >> >is on you. >> tG >> Not exactly.  I merely pointed out that you are prone to using vagueuE >> language.  I *never* said the problems didn't exist, only that youtI >> used vague notions to say they do exist.  And that is exactly what youd >> did in the previous reply.K >> i >r3 >So you were not trying to discredit my response by / >claiming it was vague with a set of vague and a0 >allegations of your own and ad-hominem attacks ( >which as it turned out were untrue !!!!  B No, as I showed in the message I quoted, all you did was wave someF hands that there are problems, without supporting information.  If youE have proof that you didn't do this, show me.  The attack came becauset> this is not the first time you've been guilty of such actions.   >a. >Forgive me for my cynicism but your responses/ >in the past have almost always fallen into the08 >"what he says is true, but the message is uncomfortable2 >so lets try to discredit the messenger" category.  E Prove that statement.  I have no issue with identifying real problemsAF so that we can address them.  I have never had a "shoot the messenger"C attitude, only one of "if you're going to make a claim, provide alluF the supporting evidence".  And that supporting evidence better be more than just your humble opinions.k   >o >mD >> And still, I don't  see anything in there that says whether we'reI >> prone to those attacks.  You *assume* that we are, but I see no proof. D >> And if the solution for other vendors is outside of their systemsG >> (i.e., add firewalls), then I don't see why OpenVMS shouldn't adviseeG >> the same (though I still haven't seen where that advice comes from).e >n9 >Read the advisories, it would help. If you had you wouldn9 >discover that IBM and Sun for example provided fixes foro7 >their respective OS's which do not require a Firewall.a  E You happily avoid my challenge, once again.  You claim it *must* be arE problem on OpenVMS, but I've never seen it.  So on what basis are you-C making the claim that it needs to be fixed?  For all I know, it may.8 have been fixed a long time ago, but you just avoid that (conveniently).3     >.J >How about Ping of Death. The POD advisory was orgionally another OpenVMS E >free zone causing at least one poster to believe that OpenVMS wasn'tn? >vunerable. Due probably to Hoff Hoffman's sharp jab in the eyesB >this has been updated and we know find that OpenVMS was vunerable >all along.a  F Well, I *know* about the POD because I was a customer at that time.  IB remember some very active responses from Digital (at that time) toD provide fixes to UCX V4.x for that problem.  Note:  This is UCX (the> networking software), not a patch to OpenVMS.  And I know fromE experience how & why this caused problems on UCX with OpenVMS (ACCVIO @ in kernel-mode code/driver, iirc).  The reason for the ACCVIO onD OpenVMS is because of the page protection mechanisms, something thatE makes it  very difficult, if not impossible, to actually execute codet2 in a buffer overflow, unlike some other platforms.  E Funny thing about the POD:  I showed that the same base-code was alsoeE used in the firmware for HP printers' lan cards.  Using POD on one of-B them would put it into an error state that required power cycling.   > = >If you are an OpenVMS advocate then I would advise steering i; >well clear of any mentions of CERT, its a shambles from any >OpenVMS standpoint. m  : Prove that statement.  How do you define this?  Is this anB industry-standard definition?  Or just your own?  Is this *really*# leaving OpenVMS systems vulnerable.y   >e> >Note I am not making any suggestions that OpenVMS is insecure; >but at least on the basis of CERT any claims for OpenVMS'st9 >security relative to any other OS (Ok you can exclude NTb >here) is anecdotal at best. >a  < Sure, but it makes a bit more sense than using the "lack" of+ information as proof that it is vulnerable.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 04:32:23 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>. Subject: Re: privs, name tables, documentation- Message-ID: <87snkhcsvc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  " steven.reece@quintiles.com writes:  ; > I have this wonderful image of our computer room....  TheuE > Turbolasers looking at the Sun racks and then launching off at themt? > as in Shane's message.  Static discharges everywhere, but thee? > AlphaServer 4100s and the AlphaServer 8400s still running and-? > wondering what all the fuss is about whilst the Sun boxes areeE > scattered on the floor with ones and zeroes circling around them inD > a dazed manner......  :-)))0  ? Anyone remember the Tuscon LUG tee shirt? The Vax Vobiscum one?e     -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2001 01:18:12 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Shadowing error- Message-ID: <874rwws20b.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  C I had an intersting event the other day. Putting the bits together,-# this is what SEEMS to have happend.5  F My 'cuda system disk threw a bad block. It was in GV, so I copied in aF new copy, and deleted the old. Now it seems, that the block replacment< only half worked. The bad block 'went away' but there was noD replacement block. ( OK, I *know* a ST34572N isn't a supported disk,D This I can live with. My choise. ) I had a second drive online, so I threw it into the shadow set.   1 Pause,... copy, copy... and 2400 errors, and theny  A The second disk dropped out of the shadow set! I was only runninga: one system, so I don't know if there was an opcom message.  E Now I guess that something, by design or misfortune, in the shadowingoB was tripped by the huge error rate, and the non-primary member wasA dropped. Now, in a case like this, this would seem to be VERY nontE optimal.  Note, also that the block in question was at about 16000K (r$ hex ) so very little had transfered.  F This would seem to be a problem for anyone who is adding a member to aE shadow set with a failing member. It could be specific to the missing E block problem, but the status from the driver is 'parrity error, so Il4 suspect other errors may also be vulnerable to this.   -- v< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:29:33 +0100d$ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> Subject: SSH for VMS Message-ID: <3aaf723e$1@hcwe67>n   Hello,   propably asked before:  A is there a SSH server/client avail for VMS? If yes, where to get?o   thanks   Jakob Erberm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:31:17 -0700u% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>J Subject: Re: SSH for VMSA Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010314072908.046cda18@ntbsod.psccos.com>e  ) At 06:29 AM 3/14/2001, Jakob Erber wrote:u >Hello,t >o >propably asked before:J > B >is there a SSH server/client avail for VMS? If yes, where to get?  E Free: the OSU SSH server and the FISSH client.  Both are pretty good.o  E For cost: Process Software Multinet has both a client and server, foreH SSH V1.  The next version of TCPware (wrapping up beta as we speak) willG have the same client & server.  SSH2 is in the works for both products.e     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |>I | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |9I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |>I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:27:26 GMT / From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>V Subject: Re: SSH for VMS) Message-ID: <3AAF2B6E.15F2D26F@uiowa.edu>O   Jakob Erber wrote: >  > Hello, >  > propably asked before: > C > is there a SSH server/client avail for VMS? If yes, where to get?l >  > thanks > 
 > Jakob Erbera  @ 	There are commercial solutions from Process Software's Multinet: and their other product :)  (sorry, I forget it's name...)  % 	The only freebies I am aware of are:i   		Dave Jones' v1.5 server:/ 			http://er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~jonesd/ssh/i  5 		The OpenSSL package is needed for the above server:h  			ftp://ftp.openssl.org/source/  & 		A terminal client for OpenVMS, FISH: 			http://www.free.lp.se/fish/   Regards, Rick --  H Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:45:30 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: SSH for VMS) Message-ID: <3AAF840A.EFD2A67F@gtech.com>a   Jakob Erber wrote:C > is there a SSH server/client avail for VMS? If yes, where to get?b   Yes.  ? There are links at http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_inet.htmlx !e   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 2001 15:44:12 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: Re: SSH for VMS0 Message-ID: <98o3kc$442$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  F In article <3aaf723e$1@hcwe67>, "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> writes: >propably asked before:M >yB >is there a SSH server/client avail for VMS? If yes, where to get?  I Multinet V4.3 includes both. As for the client, there is a freeware nameds FISH.g   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:04:50 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: SSH for VMS1 Message-ID: <SwNr6.118$G_1.6408@news.cpqcorp.net>a  F In article <3aaf723e$1@hcwe67>, "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> writes:   :propably asked before:f  C   Um, and if you thought that might be the case, why not check the  B   OpenVMS FAQ before posting?  (No offense intended -- the FAQ wasC   created and is maintained BECAUSE questions get asked regularly.)i  B :is there a SSH server/client avail for VMS? If yes, where to get?  @   Yes, (and you guessed it :-) the OpenVMS FAQ has the pointers.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:25:45 +0010t% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au 6 Subject: Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD5 Message-ID: <01K177C1L8CI00B0XQ@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   B >Grr.  The documentation has had more and more formatting problemsF >recently.  Some kids must be playing with microslop tools, instead of >using good old VAX document.e    Q We have DECwrite, but for my own reports, etc. I shall always use TeX/LATeX.  My tM ex-boss wanted all our help for our programs (started in HLBs) re-written in sM WORD.  After it had cost a fortune to get the style he wanted (cost being to uQ consultants) unsuccessfully, I came in one weekend and rewrote in LATeX.  Bloody lQ boring job, but I saw no reason to use WORD on a PC when our applications are on t VMS.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,e
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiao   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people, ; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:31:21 -0600f+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>d6 Subject: RE: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CDR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF44C5910@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Fyi -.  3 The new TCPIP V5.1 documentation is also online at:a3 http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html#tcpipr   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant: Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660. Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au ( [mailto:paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au] Sent: March 14, 2001 3:16 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come6 Subject: Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD    B >Grr.  The documentation has had more and more formatting problemsF >recently.  Some kids must be playing with microslop tools, instead of >using good old VAX document.     L We have DECwrite, but for my own reports, etc. I shall always use TeX/LATeX. My hL ex-boss wanted all our help for our programs (started in HLBs) re-written in  L WORD.  After it had cost a fortune to get the style he wanted (cost being to  H consultants) unsuccessfully, I came in one weekend and rewrote in LATeX. Bloody vI boring job, but I saw no reason to use WORD on a PC when our applicationsl are on t VMS.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development, 
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiag   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  E Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for moste people,.; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:36:03 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)6 Subject: Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD1 Message-ID: <DdMr6.114$G_1.6128@news.cpqcorp.net>n  E   re: Errant Postscript-format release notes on the March 2001 CD-ROMr*       distribution of TCP/IP Services V5.1  
   You can:  "     PRODUCT EXTRACT RELEASE_NOTES   F   to extract the release notes text-format file from within the kit.    G   I am told that the embedded release notes file in the kit IS in text oI   format, and not a Postscript-format file errantly mislabeled as a .TXT rC   text file as is found on the March 2001 CD-ROM distribution disk.n  F   I have reported this -- as have several others -- to TCP/IP ServicesH   Engineering, though it is not yet clear where this particular boo-boo    was actually implemented.M  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:41:17 -0500 & From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com>6 Subject: Re: TCP/IP V5.1 Release Notes from the VAX CD7 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010314104001.03da3dc0@clmail>e  . At 03:36 PM 3/14/01 +0000, Hoff Hoffman wrote:  G >   re: Errant Postscript-format release notes on the March 2001 CD-ROMm, >       distribution of TCP/IP Services V5.1 >O >   You can: >1# >     PRODUCT EXTRACT RELEASE_NOTES< >rF >   to extract the release notes text-format file from within the kit.  L That's the command I used to extract the release notes. You get a file with F the text release notes first followed by the Postscript release notes.   Ken>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:58:05 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>d, Subject: UK Printer hardware Supplier Needed( Message-ID: <3AAFB12D.AEEFF3F9@mmaz.com>  C I need to locate a supplier near Chelmsford England that has a goodrA reputation as well as pricing.  I need to source something like atH Printronix P600 or faster, or an equivalent type Mannesmann Tally 600 or4 faster.  Any recommendations would be appreciated...   Barrys   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOt  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:02:45 +0100h2 From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcormail.de>7 Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing merge rates on Big Disks?h+ Message-ID: <3AAF9625.6040202@arcormail.de>"   John Jansen wrote:   > Hi,e > H > Currently we use a Alpha 4100/300 with 4 gig and 9 gig disks in shadow > sets.t* > A shadow merge can take over a full day. >  > H > We are considering the purchase of a dse20 with 9 gig and 18 gig disksF > in shadow sets. This system is supposed to be 4 times as fast as ourG > current one, but no one seems to be able to give me and indication ofoF > how long it would take for a shadow set merge of the 18 gig disks on > this system. > J > Has any one had a real life experience of how long a merge would take. ID > am looking to get an indication as to whether it will be and hour, > hours, days??s >  >  > Thanking you for you helpn > 	 > Regardsy >  > John Jansen. >  >  > --B > ________________________________________________________________
 > John Jansend > Group I.T Managerl > Truck Investments Limiteds' > Phone - Work    (64 6) 356-7179 x 826e! > or direct Line  (64 6) 351-9826s! > Fax             (64 6) 356 5586   > E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nzB > ________________________________________________________________   Hi John,  E as so often in this world: it depends. It depends mostly on what kinddF of hardware these disks are connected to. What controllers, busses andF last but not least, if it's host based shadowing, how much CPU-time is; left for these operations. And, then there ist the logical g SHAD$MERGE_DELAY_FACTOR (See  I http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/721final/5423/5423pro_009.html for an i9 explanation). The fastest results could be achieved widh eE FC-Configurations, which are IMHO the only ones one can live with ande% shadowed disks of more than 9GB size.e   Greetings, Thomas    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 23:58:38 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing merge rates on Big Disks?m- Message-ID: <87itlcs5ox.fsf@prep.synonet.com>U  , John Jansen <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz> writes:    A > Currently we use a Alpha 4100/300 with 4 gig and 9 gig disks ina8 > shadow sets.  A shadow merge can take over a full day.  ? My 3000/600 merged a 4GB set in about 2 1/2 Hrs today. ( *Ugly* : details later ) What is the sysgen shadow_max_copy set to?    OB > We are considering the purchase of a dse20 with 9 gig and 18 gigE > disks in shadow sets. This system is supposed to be 4 times as fastn@ > as our current one, but no one seems to be able to give me andD > indication of how long it would take for a shadow set merge of the > 18 gig disks on this system.  B > Has any one had a real life experience of how long a merge wouldF > take. I am looking to get an indication as to whether it will be and > hour, hours, days??   B You have to pick the trade off of time vs kicking your system intoA the weeds. Faster the copies, more of a IO hit you take. The time D will depend on IO layout details. ( You don't have both disks on the one SCSI bus I hope? )  E Also the controller type. Mylexs are limited in the IO count to aboutn( a couple of hundred IOs/sec from memory.   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda..@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:00:14 GMTc, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>  Subject: [DCL] minute of the day& Message-ID: <3AAFA374.645D2A04@gmx.ch>   ISLKP1_dmo> ty astalavista.com   $!+  $! ASTALAVISTA.COM $!O $! how to build a single word index with DCL and find line numbered occurrenceswL $! This software is nothingware and the procedure may be deleted before use. $!O $! V1.0-0 14-mar-2001 DMo     .com files only   (Didier.Morandi@Pachacamac.com)t $!-i
 $ set noon $ say = "write sys$output" $START:o4 $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Search or Build (S/B)" $ if p1 .eqs. "" then exit) $ p1 = f$extract(0,1,f$edit(p1,"upcase")) $ $ if p1 .nes. "S" .and. p1 .nes. "B" $ then $    p1 = "" $    goto STARTs $ endif % $ if p1 .eqs. "S" then goto DO_SEARCH-D $ if p2 .eqs. "" then inq p2 "disk:directory or [] ([*...] allowed)"' $ if f$search("thesaurus.dat") .nes. ""e $ then $    say "".; $    say "A previous THESAURUS.DAT file exists in ",f$dir() 3 $    inq ok "Do you want to build a new one [Y/N]?"t $    if .not. ok then exit $ endifi $ if p2 .eqs. "" then exitK $ skip_table = ".and..eq..eqs..gt..ge..ges..gts..le..les..lt..ne..nes..or."h7 $ skip_table = skip_table + """&'()-|_@[]$*,;:!<ESC>^G" I $ skip_table = skip_table + "ifthenelseendifgosubgotoreturnexit$deck$eod"a8 $ if f$search("dir.temp") .nes. "" then dele_ dir.temp;*N $ dire_/col=1/notrail/noheader/out=dir.temp/exclude=[vms$common...] 'p2'*.com; $ close/nolog ch $ close/nolog ch2  $ close/nolog ch3p	 $ nbf = 0t	 $ nbw = 0e $ start_time = f$time()n $ open/read ch dir.temp N $ if f$search("temp$temp.not_sorted").nes."" then dele_ temp$temp.not_sorted.*% $ open/write ch3 temp$temp.not_sortedy $LOOP: $ read/end=EOF ch file! $ file = f$edit(file,"lowercase")  $ say "processing ",file $ nbf = nbf + 1V $ open/read ch2 'file' $LOOP2:a $ read/end=EOF2 ch2 line7 $ line=f$edit(line,"trim,compress,lowercase,uncomment").M $ if line .eqs. "$" .or. line .eqs. "$ " .or. line .eqs. "$!" then goto LOOP2d( $ if f$locate(" ",line) .eq. f$len(line) $ thenG $    line = line - "'" - "'" - "'" - "," - """" - """" - "<ESC>" - "^G"tG $    line = line - "'" - "'" - "'" - "," - """" - """" - "<ESC>" - "^G"-8 $    if f$extract(f$len(line)-1,1,line) .nes. ":" then -         write ch3 line," ",file  $    goto LOOP2  $ endifa $ i=0  $LOOP3:  $ word = f$element(i," ",line)D $ word = word - "'" - "'" - "'" - "," - """" - """" - "<ESC>" - "^G"D $ word = word - "'" - "'" - "'" - "," - """" - """" - "<ESC>" - "^G"6 $ if word .eqs. " " .or. word .eqs. "" then goto LOOP2 $ i=i+1eL $ if f$extract(f$len(word)-1,1,word) .eqs. ":" then goto LOOP3  !skip labelsE $ if f$locate(word,skip_table) .ne. f$len(skip_table) then goto LOOP3 N $ if f$extract(0,2,word) .eqs. "$!" then goto LOOP3             !skip commentsE $ write ch3 f$edit(word,"trim,compress,uncomment,lowercase")," ",fileV $ nbw = nbw + 15 $ goto LOOP3 $EOF2: $ close ch2b $ goto LOOPm $EOF:t
 $ close ch $ close ch3b $!+rM $! NB If you build the system disk thesaurus, log in under the system accounti. $! or you will run out of virtual memory *now* $!- G $ sort/key=(pos:1,size:20)        temp$temp.not_sorted temp$temp.sorted D $ merge/key=(pos:1,size:20)/nodup temp$temp.sorted     thesaurus.dat> $ dele_ temp$temp.not_sorted;*, temp$temp.sorted;*, dir.temp;* $ say ""% $ say "starting time was ",start_timew# $ say "ending   time is  ",f$time() ; $ say nbw," words stored from ",nbf," files in ",p2,"*.com"- $ say "" $ exit $! $DO_SEARCH:  $ if p2 .eqs. "" then inq p2 -=   "Item to search (enclose more than one with double quotes)"h $ if p2 .eqs. "" then exit> $ if f$search("search.temp") .nes. "" then dele_ search.temp;* $ search = "search"t2 $ search/output=search.temp thesaurus.dat "''p2' " $ if $severity .eqs. "1" $ then $    close/nolog ch- $    open/read ch search.temp- $LOOP_S: $    read/end=EOF_S ch line-! $    file = f$element(1," ",line) : $    if file .eqs. " " .or. file .eqs. "" then goto LOOP_S% $    say "Occurrences found in ",file2" $    search/numbers 'file' "''p2'" $    goto LOOP_S $EOF_S: 
 $    close chk $ endif: $ dele_ search.temp;*s $ exit  / ISLKP1_dmo> @astalavista b sys$sysdevice:[*...]h  ) starting time was 14-MAR-2001 16:36:20.13c) ending   time is  14-MAR-2001 16:45:24.85n@ 660907 words stored from 1699 files in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...]*.com  ! ISLKP1_dmo> @astalavista s dmo   iD Occurrences found in sys$sysdevice:[vms$common.sysexe]shutdown.com;12    882  $dmo = "dismount /abort /override=checks "    885  $dmo = dmo + " /unload"e!    887  $dmo = dmo + " /nounload"i    928  $dmo 'cldmt' 'dev'H Occurrences found in sys$sysdevice:[sys0.syscommon.sysexe]shutdown.com;12    882  $dmo = "dismount /abort /override=checks "    885  $dmo = dmo + " /unload"h!    887  $dmo = dmo + " /nounload"o    928  $dmo 'cldmt' 'dev'   ISLKP1_dmo> dir thesaurus.datO  ! Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[MORANDI]T  N THESAURUS.DAT;14                          6946/96138   14-MAR-2001 16:50:48.45  $ Total of 2 files, 6946/96138 blocks.P (it took me 16:50:48.45 - 16:45:24.85 minutes to log in under the system account# and redo the sort/merge by hand :-)e  % ISLKP1_dmo> cop thesaurus.dat nl:/loggE %COPY-S-COPIED, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[MORANDI]THESAURUS.DAT;14 copied to NL:e (46321 records)   2 Now, your question is: what is the difference with/ $ search/numbers sys$sysdevice:[*...]*.com item   N The answer is: if there is no occurrences, I know it at once, and it is *much*O faster as I search only the files in which I already know that the occurence is(   D.3 (is there an AltaVista Personal Search for VMS? :-)  -- k6 MORANDI Consultants, Swiss Quality Computer Consulting6 avenue de Granges-Paccot 2, 1700 Fribourg  Switzerland1     Tel: +41.79.705.46.70 - Fax: +41.26.465.13.58n4  Visit our Web site at http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 2001 00:56 CSTI' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day- Message-ID: <14MAR200100565616@gerg.tamu.edu>I  _ In article <01K15S4CHZO2009QNW@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes...  }Dave, } D }>I suppose it computes. Once upon a time 3 blocks got allocated on G }>1/2Gb disks. The disk is now 4,5 or more times bigger so the initial   }>size gets bigger too :-) } ) }It's not a linear computation seemingly.h } R }I have a .4Gb disk which takes 3 as a cluster size, a 2GB which takes 5 and 9GBs R }which take 18.  The only lineararity that I know is 9 -> 18Gb is (default) 18 ->  }36 cluster size.- } @ }[Damn, I wish I had the docs to remember where the formula is.] }  }Regards, Paddyo  ; Uh, if you have a sytem running VMS then you ahve this doc:e  
 INITIALIZE     /CLUSTER_SIZEn  &         /CLUSTER_SIZE=number-of-blocks  ?      Defines, for disk volumes, the minimum allocation unit, ingB      blocks. The maximum size you can specify for a volume is one-?      hundredth the size of the volume; the minimum size you cana6      specify is calculated with the following formula:  3                         disk_size(number_of_blocks)s  )                                  255*4096n  A      For Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 disks, the VMSclusterrD      size default depends on the disk capacity; disks with less thanB      50,000 have a default of 1. Disks that are larger than 50,000F      have a default of 3, unless this default would break the formula.D      In this case the minimum value allowed by the equation above is
      applied.e  E (This would be for an old style ODS-2 disk, not the new bigger bitmap   ODS-2 disks or the ODS-5 disks.)   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:10:26 +0010t% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aue( Subject: Re: [fun] DCL minute of the day5 Message-ID: <01K176T1N4ZM00B04S@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>n   Carl,e  < >Uh, if you have a sytem running VMS then you ahve this doc: >  >INITIALIZE   Q Thanks, Carl, I forgot the obvious place -- when in doubt use HELP.  I suppose I  @ had forgotten because I am on 7.2 and "dis-remembered" the help.  F >(This would be for an old style ODS-2 disk, not the new bigger bitmap! >ODS-2 disks or the ODS-5 disks.)   Q As a developer, I have enough problems with some of the directory paths my users  ; use if I have to pick up their run data for debug purposes.l  P As an admin on my systems, I knew that me as a developer did not want the ODS-5 P hassle within my programs.  I compromised with myself, and only installed ODS-2  :-)d   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development, 
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiae   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people, ; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:10:04 GMT , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>& Subject: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing& Message-ID: <3AAF97B3.A0672704@gmx.ch>  P I don't remember the (undocumented?) trick to skip the vms$common directory when  doing a dir sys$sysdevice:[*...]  G Of course I can do a dir sys$sysdevice:[*...]*.com/excl=[vms$common...]e( but I think there is (was?) another way.   Thanks,. D. -- h6 MORANDI Consultants, Swiss Quality Computer Consulting6 avenue de Granges-Paccot 2, 1700 Fribourg  Switzerland1     Tel: +41.79.705.46.70 - Fax: +41.26.465.13.58n4  Visit our Web site at http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:39:55 +0000 8 From: David J. Dachtera <donotreply@interbulletin.bogus>* Subject: Re: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing1 Message-ID: <3AAFACEB.285BC42F@interbulletin.com>e  8 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in article  <3AAF97B3.A0672704@gmx.ch> : eQ >I don't remember the (undocumented?) trick to skip the vms$common directory when ! >doing a dir sys$sysdevice:[*...]l > H >Of course I can do a dir sys$sysdevice:[*...]*.com/excl=[vms$common...]) >but I think there is (was?) another way..  6 This worked just now for me on OpenVMS-Alpha V6.2-1H3:   $ SHOW LOG SY0(    "SY0" = "$3$DKB0:" (LNM$JOB_81075E00)@ $ SET DEF SY0:[000000] ! This makes valid the /EXCLUDE filespec.; $ dir sy0:[*...]/excl=[*.syscommon...]*.*;*/out=dirtest/tot-  D ..then examine DIRTEST.LIS with your favorite editing/browsing tool.   -- David J. Dachtera, dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/S  / _______________________________________________ ; Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:45:49 GMTq, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>* Subject: Re: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing& Message-ID: <3AAFBC2E.B7FA61FA@gmx.ch>   ISLKP1_dmo> def sy0 $1$DGA1: ISLKP1_dmo> sh log sy0)    "SY0" = "$1$DGA1:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)u  ISLKP1_dmo> set def sy0:[000000]9 ISLKP1_dmo> dir sy0:[*...]/excl=[*.syscommon...]*.*;*/totL (many lines removed)1 Directory $1$DGA1:[VMS$COMMON.VUE$LIBRARY.SYSTEM]e" Total of 39 files, 168/720 blocks./ Directory $1$DGA1:[VMS$COMMON.VUE$LIBRARY.USER]  Total of 1 file, 15/18 blocks.+ Directory $1$DGA1:[VMS$COMMON.XDPS$INCLUDE]m" Total of 10 files, 183/306 blocks.  D Grand total of 254 directories, 10467 files, 5718485/5939370 blocks.   ???* D.   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > $ SHOW LOG SY0* >    "SY0" = "$3$DKB0:" (LNM$JOB_81075E00)B > $ SET DEF SY0:[000000] ! This makes valid the /EXCLUDE filespec.= > $ dir sy0:[*...]/excl=[*.syscommon...]*.*;*/out=dirtest/tots   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:31:21 GMTq, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>/ Subject: [Q] TCP/IP RPC connection error statuse& Message-ID: <3AAF5668.1D0A8805@gmx.ch>  , My Customer has the following piece of code:   ../.. ,  transp = svctcp_create(RPC_ANYSOCK, 0, 0) ;         if (transp == NULL)_    {A                 fprintf(stderr, "cannot create tcp service.\n") ;                  exit(1) ;e	         }hN         if (!svc_register(transp, server_nr, KOMVERS, komprog_1, IPPROTO_TCP))    {P                 fprintf(stderr, "unable to register (%ld, KOMVERS, tcp).\n",ser*                 exit(1) ;t  N I don't "like" the EXIT(1) because it reminds me the TRAP TO 4 and the TRAP TOL 10 from my young years when I started computing :-), ie no information otherE than "it failed". I *know* it failed because my program doesn't work.u   I wish to do this:  0      transp = svctcp_create(RPC_ANYSOCK, 0, 0) ;$      if((transp & 1) != SS$_NORMAL) 9         fprintf(stderr, "cannot create tcp service.\n") ;+         lib$stop(transp);          exit(1) ;u  P which should be much more interesting for debugging purpose and which should set% the DCL $status global symbol, right?    Thanks,=   D. " --   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2001 08:52:50 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 3 Subject: Re: [Q] TCP/IP RPC connection error status 3 Message-ID: <adZO3CSPDnFh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3AAF5668.1D0A8805@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:l. >  transp = svctcp_create(RPC_ANYSOCK, 0, 0) ; >         if (transp == NULL)d >    {C >                 fprintf(stderr, "cannot create tcp service.\n") ;R >                 exit(1) ;3 >         } P >         if (!svc_register(transp, server_nr, KOMVERS, komprog_1, IPPROTO_TCP)) >    {R >                 fprintf(stderr, "unable to register (%ld, KOMVERS, tcp).\n",ser* >                 exit(1) ;h > P > I don't "like" the EXIT(1) because it reminds me the TRAP TO 4 and the TRAP TON > 10 from my young years when I started computing :-), ie no information otherG > than "it failed". I *know* it failed because my program doesn't work.d >   H You can pass vaxc$errno (errno.h) to exit, or any other VMS status code,F it will set $status and you will see the corresponging message if not  successfull.  G Check you IP stack's documentation to see if the svc routines set errnonG and/or vaxc$errno so that you can pass the appropriate VMS status code.c  H Note ANSI C standard for exit(0) and exit(1) do not match the VMS statusD code layout, so those two values are handled as special cases.  IIRCD there's another form (_exit() ?) which does nothing special with the$ value, or you could call sys$exit().  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupfE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.146 ************************