1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 20 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 158       Contents:' Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?  433a/au still some left = Can a VAXStation 4000/96 Boot At Power-up W/O Graphics Card ? A Re: Can a VAXStation 4000/96 Boot At Power-up W/O Graphics Card ? A Re: Can a VAXStation 4000/96 Boot At Power-up W/O Graphics Card ? A Re: Can a VAXStation 4000/96 Boot At Power-up W/O Graphics Card ? B Can VMS "root" from a device other than the one it is booted from?F Re: Can VMS "root" from a device other than the one it is booted from?F Re: Can VMS "root" from a device other than the one it is booted from?F Re: Can VMS "root" from a device other than the one it is booted from?* Can VMS "root" from another device, part 2. Re: Can VMS "root" from another device, part 2. Re: Can VMS "root" from another device, part 2$ Re: Catalyst for growth? ERP systems Re: CSWS and log filter  Re: Datatrieve - DTR DC registration closed Re: DC registration closed@ Re: DECnet V on a hobbyist system vs replacing it with DECnet IV( DFU (was: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing)P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalPrograP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalPrograP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalPrograP RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalPrograP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalPrograP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS    EducationalProgram)P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS    EducationalProgram)P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS    EducationalProgram)P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS    EducationalProgram)N Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Educati onalProgram) Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!  Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!  Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!  Help/message non help  Intra-Cluster Communication  Re: Intra-Cluster Communication  Jumper settings for an RZ23L  RE: Jumper settings for an RZ23L  RE: Jumper settings for an RZ23L1 lexical function F$FAO and directives !UL and !XL 5 Re: lexical function F$FAO and directives !UL and !XL # login failure when sysuaf is locked ' Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked # login failure when sysuaf is locked ' Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked ' Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked ' Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked ' Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked " Re: One For the CI Cluster Experts" RE: One For the CI Cluster Experts" Re: One For the CI Cluster Experts" Re: One For the CI Cluster Experts" Re: One For the CI Cluster Experts" Re: One For the CI Cluster Experts Re: OpenVMS Educational Program 4 Re: Perceptics LaserStar12 3.3 distro tape (tk50)...4 Re: Perceptics LaserStar12 3.3 distro tape (tk50)...# Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions  RETAIN=ERROR on print queues  Re: RETAIN=ERROR on print queues  Re: RETAIN=ERROR on print queues Re: RMS Alpha COBOL and RMS-STS . Re: Senior OpenVMS systems manager - SINGAPORE> RE: VMS-based webservers (was Re: OpenVMS Educational Program)> Re: VMS-based webservers (was Re: OpenVMS Educational Program)> RE: VMS-based webservers (was Re: OpenVMS Educational Program)/ Re: What databases are still available on vms ?  WINE and Emulation Re: WINE and Emulation Re: WINE and Emulation [DCL] minute of the day  Re: [DCL] minute of the day  Re: [DCL] minute of the day , [Q] PCSI error with FILE FRED SOURCE FOOBAR;0 Re: [Q] PCSI error with FILE FRED SOURCE FOOBAR;  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 08:30:53 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: - OpenVMS ever to be on Intel chip?3 Message-ID: <X4T$VkGndzN2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <m2zoehpm2f.fsf@tycho.rlent.pnet>, Roland Roberts <roland@rlenter.com> writes: G > I think I have hardcopies at home; if anyone is interested, I can try > > to post a reference.  The project ran VMS services on a MachH > microkernel which was running BSD as the primary OS.  The hardware wasG > still a VAX as the authors wanted to be able to avoid having to write F > everything from scratch: using VAX hardware meant VMS binaries could > be run....  G I read those papers.  The effort was limitted to getting a VAX/VMS copy E of COPY.EXE to run on Mach, and only for selected file organizations. @ Most of the VMS kernel, much of RMS, and much of the CLI was notD attempted. Other parts of VMS were not needed for the demonstration.  E Wanting to make sure COPY.EXE ran unmodified in the demonstration was 8 part of the reason for doing the demonstration on a VAX.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:18:16 -0500 % From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>   Subject: 433a/au still some left/ Message-ID: <tbf0o7kvf5kfab@corp.supernews.com>    www.islandco.com     -- Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory Street 	 Suite 150  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0096  sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2001 07:10:13 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) F Subject: Can a VAXStation 4000/96 Boot At Power-up W/O Graphics Card ?' Message-ID: <996vol$hso$1@joe.rice.edu> 5 Keywords: vms,boot,vaxstation_4000,minus_graphic_card   < The systems is a VAXStation 4000/96 running VMS 7.1, without' a graphics device, mouse, or keyboard.    F The "HALT" flag is set to "2", which should cause  the system to boot D on power-up.  But the system halts at the three-chevron prompt with:      ?? 001    2     LCSPX  0512  D It can be manually booted at that point. The graphics card has been  reseated several times.   A If the grphics card is removed, the system will boot on power-up, 6 but then VMS thinks it is dealing with an unknown CPU:  C    "This system has an unsupported CPU configuration. Your software H     licenses may not function properly until your hardware is corrected.6     Please consult your Field Service Representative."  E And the return from f$getsyi("hw_name") is "unknown VAXStation 4000".   F Any suggestions, besides getting a known-to-be-working graphics card ?   Thanks in advance,   --Jerry Leslie         ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:17:31 +0100 , From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.n0spam.nl>J Subject: Re: Can a VAXStation 4000/96 Boot At Power-up W/O Graphics Card ?* Message-ID: <99707b$29b$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  K In my experience the system will function normally. I have found no licence 
 conflicts.  	 Bart Zorn   6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:996vol$hso$1@joe.rice.edu... > > The systems is a VAXStation 4000/96 running VMS 7.1, without( > a graphics device, mouse, or keyboard. > G > The "HALT" flag is set to "2", which should cause  the system to boot F > on power-up.  But the system halts at the three-chevron prompt with: >   >    ?? 001    2     LCSPX  0512 > E > It can be manually booted at that point. The graphics card has been  > reseated several times.  > C > If the grphics card is removed, the system will boot on power-up, 8 > but then VMS thinks it is dealing with an unknown CPU: > E >    "This system has an unsupported CPU configuration. Your software J >     licenses may not function properly until your hardware is corrected.8 >     Please consult your Field Service Representative." > G > And the return from f$getsyi("hw_name") is "unknown VAXStation 4000".  > H > Any suggestions, besides getting a known-to-be-working graphics card ? >  > Thanks in advance, >  > --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:23:50 GMT . From: "Bruce J Baker" <bjbaker@bigpond.net.au>J Subject: Re: Can a VAXStation 4000/96 Boot At Power-up W/O Graphics Card ?> Message-ID: <GkFt6.12566$992.76747@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:996vol$hso$1@joe.rice.edu... > > The systems is a VAXStation 4000/96 running VMS 7.1, without( > a graphics device, mouse, or keyboard. > G > The "HALT" flag is set to "2", which should cause  the system to boot F > on power-up.  But the system halts at the three-chevron prompt with: >   >    ?? 001    2     LCSPX  0512 > E > It can be manually booted at that point. The graphics card has been  > reseated several times.   < If memory serves, you can get past this with >>> SET FBOOT 1 which bypasses the boot tests.   -- Regards,
 Bruce J Baker  bjbaker@technologist.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:35:20 +0100 # From: "AbbNord" <hbomholt@epost.de> J Subject: Re: Can a VAXStation 4000/96 Boot At Power-up W/O Graphics Card ?/ Message-ID: <9979rq$plh$04$1@news.t-online.com>   @ Jerry Leslie schrieb in Nachricht <996vol$hso$1@joe.rice.edu>...= >The systems is a VAXStation 4000/96 running VMS 7.1, without ' >a graphics device, mouse, or keyboard.  >boot      Hello I insert a graphic and terminate the green output with a 75 Ohm resistor to . simulate a connected monitor , an you have the license ok.    try it  	 h.Bomholt    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:27:38 -0600 8 From: Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>K Subject: Can VMS "root" from a device other than the one it is booted from? M Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103200918170.24113-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>   F I'm used to UNIXes, sorry...  Anyway, I have a VAXserver 3100 (unknownJ model, but it's unable to boot from a CD-ROM), a few disks for it (210 megG each), and an OpenVMS hobbyist CD-ROM.  It originally booted a somewhat J damaged VAX/VMS V5.5 installation, but I broke that...  My idea was to tryJ putting standalone backup from one of the other harddisks (which went OK),H then copy the savesets from the CD to the standalone backup disk, (whichF also went OK), boot the disk (which also went OK) and then restore theJ savesets that way (which went really, really badly).  Of course, having noG backup media, I couldn't back up my disk first, so now I have a machine I that can only boot V5.5 standalone backup.  The thing is, UNIXes can boot J from one disk, and then "root", or use as a system disk, some other device6 in the system.  Can VMS do that, or am I just screwed?  J In the latter case, how hard would it be to write a new bootstrap program,$ and load it over the serial console?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:51:19 +0000 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> O Subject: Re: Can VMS "root" from a device other than the one it is booted from? ' Message-ID: <3AB77C77.C42757D2@iee.org>    Daniel Seagraves wrote:  > H > I'm used to UNIXes, sorry...  Anyway, I have a VAXserver 3100 (unknownL > model, but it's unable to boot from a CD-ROM), a few disks for it (210 megI > each), and an OpenVMS hobbyist CD-ROM.  It originally booted a somewhat L > damaged VAX/VMS V5.5 installation, but I broke that...  My idea was to tryL > putting standalone backup from one of the other harddisks (which went OK),   So far so good ...  J > then copy the savesets from the CD to the standalone backup disk, (which4 > also went OK), boot the disk (which also went OK)    ... still going strong ... and then restore the6 > savesets that way (which went really, really badly).  ; ... if you'd typed the right commands it would have worked.    >  Of course, having no I > backup media, I couldn't back up my disk first, so now I have a machine K > that can only boot V5.5 standalone backup.  The thing is, UNIXes can boot L > from one disk, and then "root", or use as a system disk, some other device8 > in the system.  Can VMS do that, or am I just screwed?  6 No (although I don't think I can parse that bit of the sentence anyway) and No.  3 If we assume that your installation is now wrecked, 5 all you have to do is reinstall OpenVMS from scratch.    The instructions are at:  8 http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html#ovmsdocset   in particular:  < http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6521/6521pro.html  7 Firstly you boot your standalone backup (SAB). For sake 4 of argument let's assume you have SAB on DKA100: and9 you want to install OpenVMS on DKA0:. Further assume that 9 your copied savesets (.A, .B etc.) are on DKA100:[000000] ; (they must be in the top level), that you have no data here 2 that you care about and that you are attempting to
 install V5.5:    So at the console prompt:    	>>> B DKA100:  . Wait for SAB to come up and find your devices.   Now do something like:  @ 	$ BACKUP /IMAGE /VERIFY DKA100:[000000]VMS055.B/SAVE/INIT DKA0:  & and wait a while. Add /LOG if you like3 to exercise the terminal. Any recent version of SAB 8 will issue progress messages each time you hit control-T (just like DCL would).   The /IMAGE is essential./ The /VERIFY is essential unless you don't care   whether it worked or not.   % Once it finishes, hit the halt button / to get back to the console prompt and then boot  the OpenVMS install procedure:   	>>> B DKA0:   Follow the prompts ...  < You may or may not need to enter the time at various stages. It should be in the format:  	20-MAR-2001 16:02 or whatever.  : Back in the V5.5 days there may or may not have been a MUP9 you needed to install. I think the installation procedure  will whine at you about it.   0 You would be significantly better off installing8 OpenVMS V7.2 (or at least something that shipped withing the last 5 years ...)     L > In the latter case, how hard would it be to write a new bootstrap program,& > and load it over the serial console?   Much harder than the above!    Antonio    --     --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2001 16:47:50 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) O Subject: Re: Can VMS "root" from a device other than the one it is booted from? 0 Message-ID: <9981jm$sjv$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103200918170.24113-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>, Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net> writes:G >I'm used to UNIXes, sorry...  Anyway, I have a VAXserver 3100 (unknown K >model, but it's unable to boot from a CD-ROM), a few disks for it (210 meg ' >each), and an OpenVMS hobbyist CD-ROM.   M You should be able to boot from CD-ROM unless your CD-ROM doesn't support 512 L byte blocks. Some CD-ROMs need a jumper sat in order to use 512 byte blocks.  I >It originally booted a somewhat damaged VAX/VMS V5.5 installation, but I H >broke that...  My idea was to try putting standalone backup from one ofH >the other harddisks (which went OK), then copy the savesets from the CD5 >to the standalone backup disk, (which also went OK),   
 Why that?   # >boot the disk (which also went OK)   J Surprisingly. Just by copying savesets from CD to the boot disk you cannot! expect the disk being bootable...   J >and then restore the savesets that way (which went really, really badly).  L >Of course, having no backup media, I couldn't back up my disk first, so now< >I have a machine that can only boot V5.5 standalone backup.  H With standalone backup it is possible to use backup to unpack one of theJ savesets from CD to your system disk and then reboot. I don't know offhandK which saveset, though. Or you backup the CD onto one of your disks and boot J from there. This will bring up a menu where you then install the operatingG system. Of course, 210 MB might not be sufficient to hold the whole CD.   H >The thing is, UNIXes can boot from one disk, and then "root", or use asJ >a system disk, some other device in the system.  Can VMS do that, or am I >just screwed?  L VMS cannot switch the system disk. VMS is able to boot from any disk that isO connected to the system but once it is running you need to shut down the systemA# in order to switch the boot device.   K >In the latter case, how hard would it be to write a new bootstrap program,r% >and load it over the serial console?    No need for that.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmanne  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:59:44 GMTg8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)O Subject: Re: Can VMS "root" from a device other than the one it is booted from?o1 Message-ID: <kUMt6.168$eE2.9460@news.cpqcorp.net>u  N In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103200918170.24113-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>, : Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net> writes:  G >I'm used to UNIXes, sorry...  Anyway, I have a VAXserver 3100 (unknownt2 >model, but it's unable to boot from a CD-ROM),...  7 You appear to have a CD-ROM connected and working, yes?a) Why do you think you cannot boot from it?X   Try:         > Boot DKA400:  ? The CD is usually DKA400; do a SHO DEV to see if it is there ore where else it might be.P   --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USArH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:45:31 -0600 8 From: Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>3 Subject: Can VMS "root" from another device, part 2uM Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103201040570.24199-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>   I I got asked for what exactly I did... The mistake I made was that I builteE a V5.5 Standalone Backup kit.  I was following the instrctions in theOD VMS installation guide from the DECUS website I ordered the CD from.J Backup complained about invalid block types, directory hierarchy too deep,! and things like that when it ran.t  6 As I remember it, the command that killed the disk was  < BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DKA100:[000000]VMS072.B/SAVE_SET DKA300:  7 Where DKA100 is my CD-ROM and DKA300 is the first disk.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:20:08 +0000a+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>r7 Subject: Re: Can VMS "root" from another device, part 2s' Message-ID: <3AB79148.ABB1C58E@iee.org>s   Daniel Seagraves wrote:I > K > I got asked for what exactly I did... The mistake I made was that I builtEG > a V5.5 Standalone Backup kit.  I was following the instrctions in thep  7 Building standalone backup is not likely to have killedt0 anyhting ... I've never killed anything with it!  F > VMS installation guide from the DECUS website I ordered the CD from.L > Backup complained about invalid block types, directory hierarchy too deep,# > and things like that when it ran.R   Perhaps you have a bad CD ?h  8 > As I remember it, the command that killed the disk was > > > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DKA100:[000000]VMS072.B/SAVE_SET DKA300:  5 That command is correct (although it would be unusuala2 to have a CD as DKA100: and a disk as DKA300:, but/ if that's how they really are, it should not bei a problem).o  , You could try the same command with /INIT to- initialise the target disk (DKA300:) and wipeh% everything off it before the restore.e  9 > Where DKA100 is my CD-ROM and DKA300 is the first disk.R  : If the backup still does not work even with the /INIT, try  +  $ BACKUP/LIST DKA100:[000000]VMS072.B/SAVE-  2 just to see whether you can even list the save set
 on the CD.   Antonion   -- e   ---------------r- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgc   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:44:50 GMT<8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)7 Subject: Re: Can VMS "root" from another device, part 2;1 Message-ID: <CyNt6.170$eE2.9413@news.cpqcorp.net>e   In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103201040570.24199-100000@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net>, Daniel Seagraves <dseagrav@sakura.lunar-tokyo.net> writes: >eJ >I got asked for what exactly I did... The mistake I made was that I built >a V5.5 Standalone Backup kit.    F There was a change in backup between OpenVMS V6.1 and V6.2.  Hence you5 cannot use the V5.5 backup to restore a V7.2 saveset.a  F You should be able to boot the CD.  Did you try?  What exactly did you try?  What exactly happened.   -- tK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAtH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:21:58 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> - Subject: Re: Catalyst for growth? ERP systemsr8 Message-ID: <7bsebt4bj3ppeevp68rforlc99h4taqpqk@4ax.com>  A On 20 Mar 2001 14:33:18 GMT, bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)e wrote:    O >YOU are missing the point:  VMS cannot continue to do its own thing and expectsM >to magically come out of the dark and be everyone's favorite OS.  A catalystoI >is required.  This catalyst may very well be the COE initiative.  It may 1 >not.  But not trying it isn't going to help any.9  F I see COE as a good idea but the major catalyst to stimulate VMS salesD would be a port of SAP R3. SAP running on top of RDB would blow awayB the competition if done properly. And just maybe the COE work will  make a SAP port that bit easier,  A Worldwide we use two major MRP/ERP systems. MANMAN and SAP. A SAPnE implementation of ours in Norway running on Wintel (EDS specified and,A manage the system) does not perform up to expectations and we area= trying to suggest Alphaservers. Trouble is that the corporatewC standards say that HP-UX is the corporate Unix standard... It would?F actually be easier for us to argue for SAP on VMS (VMS still being the? platform for most MANMAN sites) than it is to argue for Tru-64.p  > With Oracle Apps about to disappear from the VMS portfolio andD PeopleSoft (I believe) already gone the availability of state of theF art ERP systems continues to decline towards vanishing point. There isB no more natural home for these type of applications than VMS in my opinion.  B Despite pressing Compaq for a port I would have placed this in theF highly unlikely category until recently but with ads for VMS appearing. in the UK press last week maybe pigs will fly!     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:52:37 +01000< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>  Subject: Re: CSWS and log filter2 Message-ID: <997cpv$rou$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>   Gaitan D'Antoni wrote...+ >Have you checked the log files for errors?f5 >APACHE$ROOT:[LOGS]*.* and APACHE$ROOT:[000000]*.LOG.   = Errr... I tested CustomLog *and* ErrorLog... dumb move... ;-)s  2 Nothing in APACHE$ROOT:[000000]APACHE$SERVER.LOG .+ After setting ErrorLog to a "normal" value:t  4 piped_log_spawn: unable to exec /bin/sh -c 'cronologA    /apache$specific/logs/AP%y%m%d.log': no such file or directory   K After enabling auditing of file access and privilege failure, OPCOM states:   8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  20-MAR-2001 07:17:18.68  %%%%%%%%%%%( Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on LAUREL4 Security alarm (SECURITY) on LAUREL, system id: 1048+ Auditable event:          Privilege failureeK Event information:        SYSNAM not used to create inner-mode logical nameh    (DEFINE/EXEC, $CRELNM)d1 Event time:               20-MAR-2001 07:17:18.67m" PID:                      2060048D$ Process name:             APACHE$WWW$ Username:                 APACHE$WWW* Process owner:            [WEB,APACHE$WWW]/ Logical name:             LNM$TEMPORARY_MAILBOX   Privileges missing:       SYSNAM  L After giving SYSNAM to APACHE$WWW (default and authorized) the error message" still persists. I also tested with. 'cronolog.exe','/apache$root/000000/cronolog',, '/apache$root/000000/cronolog.exe', and 'MCR! apache$root:[000000]cronolog.exe't instead of 'cronolog'.  I >The CSWS processes run in the context of the APACHE$WWW account which isJH >non-privileged. Make sure the file protection on your .EXE file is such that >APACHE$WWW has RE access.   Check:  * $ dir/sec apache$root:[000000]cronolog.exe    Directory APACHE$COMMON:[000000]  E CRONOLOG.EXE;1       [WEB,APACHE$WWW]                 (RWED,RWED,RE,)      cu,r   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deTJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 02:52:32 -0500-/ From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com>0 Subject: Re: Datatrieve - DTRo) Message-ID: <3AB70C3F.35C4@ix.netcom.com>a   calchas wrote: > D > Does anyone know of a book (still in print) or an online source of# > information regarding DataTrieve.b >  > Thanks in advance$	 > Calchase  ; Of the three or four books about DATATRIEVE, all are out ofi; print.  There was some online documentation about two years ; ago, but the Digital/Compaq lawyers put an end to that.  Asa0 Hoff noted, the documentation is hardcopy or CD.  5 There are some articles and references of interest at   5    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/8958/1   Joe H. Gallagher, Ph. D.$ Former SIG Chair & Newsletter Editor) DATATRIEVE/4GL SIG of DECUS\\\\\Encompassv dtrwiz at ix dot netcom dot come" See "The DATATRIEVE Programmer" at2 http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/8958/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:14:02 -0500 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: DC registration closedd1 Message-ID: <qlLt6.163$eE2.9173@news.cpqcorp.net>a   Dear Newsgroup,   D Just letting you know that registation for the Washington DC OpenVMSL Technical Update has closed (as of last Friday) and a folks are being placed on a waiting list.  D If you would like to attend the Dallas Technical update please visit http://www.dfwcug.org/   Sueh   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:26:41 GMTc= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)t# Subject: Re: DC registration closedo0 Message-ID: <009F94C1.7B18FB8C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <pjQ0XDepXBSO@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:s >.g >In article <qlLt6.163$eE2.9173@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:t > B >	Got to love that!  I pestered Brian Schenkenberger to come down.B >	He doesn't know yet (as of a week ago).  It is an easy drive for >	me and I'm psyched!i >o >	Run with the Best . . . VMS! >r >			Take care, >h >			Robe >  >b  G Well, I'm not going to be there.  Too much to do and too little meat onwH the agenda for me to just go to hang out with the same old same olds. :)  H As consolation, go find a nice porter or stout and drink it in my honor. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 02:56:42 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)I Subject: Re: DECnet V on a hobbyist system vs replacing it with DECnet IVlL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2003010256430001@user-2ive6r4.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3AB6C992.FE2D4A41@infopuls.com>, Christof Brassd <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:h  = > > Robert Deininger (rdeninger at mindspring dot com) wrote:n > > >>>$ MCR DECNET_REGISTERG > > This is the way to add node/address information.  It's an SMG-styleh' > > menu-driven application by default.,
 > > <trim> > > <<<u > > > Thanks, it did recognise. But unfortunately both boxes still > don't talk to each other.    You ought to know by now...c  G Post the text of the messages.  If you don't get any messages, at leastr& post the exact commands that you used.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:25:37 GMTs, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>1 Subject: DFU (was: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing)l& Message-ID: <3AB705DD.45503702@gmx.ch>  O The criminal system manager left the boat five months ago with the freeware CD.lP Why do you imagine they ask an oldtimmer like me to come from Toulouse France to, change a few DCL lines at SwissCom Bern? :-)   D.   Roy Omond wrote: >  > Criminal ! > : > Shoot the system manager who neglects to install DFU :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2001 13:44:28 GMT* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalPrograi3 Message-ID: <997mrs$l5e$2@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>n  , In article <3AB6C690.3F276C3B@infopuls.com>,, 	Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Brian Wheeler wrote: >>  6 >> In article <R+Zt7DPvAkxI@eisner.encompasserve.org>,: >>         koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e >> > In article <99549t$c43$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>, bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) writes:> >> >>:S >> >> Unix is as easy to administer.  You have not shown any cases where it is not.a >> >> What VMS apps? >> >L >> > Ever try to find out what printer a queue on HP-UX is driving when it's >> > not working?a >> > >> eJ >> I try not to think about HP-UX :)  Point taken, but that's not really a) >> Unix issue, as much as an HP-UX issue.  > A > This *is* a UNIX issue exactly because you could even give suchg5 > an answer. You should had never thought about that!   J No.  It is an HP-UX issue.  If the poster had asked about unix in general L instead of HP-UX specifically, then, yes, it would have been a Unix questionI (or, more specifically, an lpd question).  But he asked about HP-UX which-$ uses its own printing system, HPDPS.   Brian      >> t >> Brian >> pK >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------hD >> > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationB >> > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupI >> >                                | please remove ".aspm" when replyingw   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2001 14:33:18 GMT* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalProgra 3 Message-ID: <997pne$lg4$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>-  , In article <3AB6C610.E03722F7@infopuls.com>,, 	Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Brian Wheeler wrote: > [SNIP]A >> >> So where is VMS the right tool and unix not the right tool?. >> >V >> > Where you want to a stable and easy to administer environment with good VMS apps. >> hP >> Unix is as easy to administer.  You have not shown any cases where it is not. > = > Statistics, independent analysis and experience showed thatp> > equally good people are about twice as efficient with VMS as > with UNIX.  M care to point to these analysis?  I submit to you that 80% of all statistics n on usenet are made up.     >  >> What VMS apps?a > ? > Most prominent examples are Database centered apps, real-timenB > production and management apps (BWM, Bayer, BASF, power stations@ > all around the world) and financial transactional systems likeA > SWX Swiss Exchange, DBAG Frankfurt, Eurex, CBOT. Any questions?c  L Yeah, where are the apps for 99% of the potiential VMS customers?  These areM fine examples of vertical markets, but they are worthless from the standpointf of general acceptance.   > N >> >> So then, unix isn't crap if it does the job.  That's what its all about. >> >B >> > I don't think so. I'm also interested what is under the hood. >>   >> Fair enough.o > @ > BTW this open the hood attitude is a recent outcome of the badB > experiences companies made with poorly crafted but running apps.B > If your programs don't have structure and don't obey good design< > rules the maintenance and the future development will be a > nightmare.  	 <sarcasm>oG Oh, and nobody has ever written a bad app for VMS, they always stick toe unix for that!
 </sarcasm>  G Bad apps (as well as good ones) can appear on any platform at any time.-  I I submit to you that while there are some crappy apps for unix, there are F more good ones for unix than there are for VMS, solely becase there is! more software available for unix.n     >  > [SNIP] >  >> > >> > Let's see when and if it's available to the SW vendors. I'm not sure if I understood Fred Kleinsorge correctly. It seems that for some time the UNIX API won't in the core VMS. >> -? >> Agreed.  Then we can argue about if its a good or bad thing.e > ? > Unfortunately if it turns out to be a major step in the wrongm@ > direction the money has already been spent. That's why I write > against it now.s  J Well, if its already spent, then your bitching isn't going to do anything.     >  > [SNIP] > J >> >> Yeah, and apparently unlike you, I'm not ignorant on how it became aQ >> >> standard.  It was forcefully bundled with mass market OEM machines.  MS wasoS >> >> weilding monopoly power in the DOS market to force windows onto users whether R >> >> they wanted it or not.  When enough installs were out there, *ONLY THEN* wasS >> >> it a successful platform to write to.  VMS is very different in this respect: J >> >> realistically one vendor for hardware, very small market share, etc. >> > >> > While this paragraph is also what I think is the truth it sadly enough isn't related to my argument and doesn't help you in defending your position. Remember - we were talking about the word "proprietary". >> 5N >> Yes.  You were arguing that proprietary doesn't matter if you've got market) >> share.  VMS doesn't have market share.  > ; > You are missing the point. No OS had the monopol from therB > beginning besides M$DOS. There isn't any law that getting market > share is forbidden.   F MSDOS did _NOT_ have a monopoly at the beginning either.  CPM-86 was aK viable alternative, and was readily available (though more expensive).  It mN only wasn't as popular because of bundling agreements, which is shady at best.  N YOU are missing the point:  VMS cannot continue to do its own thing and expectL to magically come out of the dark and be everyone's favorite OS.  A catalystH is required.  This catalyst may very well be the COE initiative.  It may0 not.  But not trying it isn't going to help any.   >  > [SNIP] >  a >> Beats me, I use emacs.: > @ > Haven't tried that on email although I know you can all within= > emacs and I have even emacs on VMS. You can even browse Webs= > pages within emacs. Is this true? And if, how does it work?l  F yes, emacs uses a w3 module which lets you view web pages.  I just useB emacs for editting from knews (my newsreader) and elm (my mailer).   >  > [SNIP] > N >> >> We agree, but only to an extent.  VMS is proprietary in that there is noO >> >> independant (i.e. not controlled by compaq) which says "this is VMS".  ItaM >> >> is available from only one vendor, and is not compatible with any otherCB >> >> system at the source level (except for very trivial things). >> >	>> > Agreed. But I stay to what I wrote: this isn't a technical argument. And it's per se not even an economical argument as we can see with Micro$oft and to some extend with Apple which uses its beeing different (read proprietary) to a certain degree as marketing.w >> IM >> MS forced marketshare to create a de-facto standard.  VMS doesn't have theeN >> marketshare to do this.  Apple had obvious benefits over DOS, which negatedP >> its proprietary disadvantage.  VMS may have advantages over Unix, but they're> >> not "obvious", so its proprietary nature is a disadvantage. >  > Too simple, I don't buy it.   @ What about Occam's razor, you were so keen on promoting earlier?   > This is rather a question ofA > perception, marketing and management culture (which isn't thereo6 > anymore unfortunately). To me and every educated and? > knowledgable engineer who studied both systems the advantages0: > are more obvious than the advantages of MacOS < 10 above
 > Windoze.   <dripping with sarcasm!>G Yeah, cooperative multitasking is *FAR* superior to preemptive.  Its a  G wonder that VMS doesn't use it!  Heck, fixed run-time memory limits aretC a godsend compared to dynamically being able to allocate as much ast is required at run time.   </dripping with sarcasm>   You are kidding, right?7   > >> > This is true but there are many quirks necessary to have a large app compile on different UNIX flavours. Even well designed and well implemented C apps (oxymoron, I know) need substantial maintenance to be portable in that sense. Have you ever read these C header files with these endless #ifdefs and #defines coping with the small but tedious (and from my point of view unecessary) differences? I can only say: ugly! >>  : >> Ugly, perhaps.  But C isn't the only language for apps. > A > If you had read some recent posts of mine you would know that IaB > try to convince the programmers to avoid C because it's the same: > crap as UNIX - both are married. The UNIX and C attitudeB > complement each other in one of the fruitfulst ways resulting in8 > very unreliable UNIX variants and apps on top of them. > > > C is used too often. UNIX is mainly implemented in C. Do you0 > need any other reasons to stay away from UNIX?  I That's not a reason, that's a bias.   BLISS is crap, do I need any other lO reason to avoid VMS?  Macro-32 promotes poor programming and should be avoided.pE Are these reasons?  No.  No more than your C==Unix==crap arguments.  p  J You keep repeating that "any knowledgable engineer" should determine theseJ things...yet the bulk of your arguments are based on bias and anything but- facts.   How do you explain this discrepency?p     >  >> >> >> > UNIX and Windoze are another form of beeing proprietary with UNIX having the disadvantage of never beeing the same if you change the vendor.? >> >> >>P >> >> >> Are they as great as when you move from VMS to anything else?  Not evenS >> >> >> close.  The difference between unixes is trivial at best for the end user, ; >> >> >> and only require a bit of effort for the sysadmin.n >> >> >i >> >> > Yes - the differences between the UNIXes are much smaller than between VMS and UNIX. What a surprise! VMS isn't UNIX? Why isn't UNIX implementing the Windoze API. There is the vast majority of apps! >> >>wQ >> >> The WINE project is implementing the windows api on unix. Corel has used itfQ >> >> to port several applications to linux via a recompile.  Also, products such-- >> >> as WindU has been doing this for years.a > : > Corel messed several things up. Do they still exist? ;-)= > I think Corel isn't a good example of putting things right.-  H Corel may be a business disaster area, but they do some technical things right.     > >> > I know WINE and WABI - good approaches but there is something wrong. Both never took off. It's similar to the FX32! although the FX32! was even much better. It seems to me very interesting that the emulation approach isn't very popular at the moment. Instead the trend is towards using universal library APIs like Qt and providing apps on all major platforms (no, not including VMS).. >> > Have you good experiences with WINE apps? >> tP >> Yes.  They're not perfect, but they're not awful, either.  WINE also compilesP >> to native libraries, so when you write a win api app, you can recompile it onH >> any platform that WINE supports...so its not just an emulation issue. > > > All project *I* know about of using WINE didn't go well. Any > counterexamples around?   G I gave some, with the corel applications.  Not to mention some in houses stuff we have.   >  > [SNIP] > H >> > I don't fight for these small differences. This example is for you. >> > But I'm not sure if your statistics is correct. I use ps -aux on Linux which doesn't work on the Solaris version I'm using (2.6). I studied the man page for ps on Solaris and found that the option set is *very* different from the Linux one.g >> /H >> Its a BSD vs SYSV issue.  Linux allows either set of options, but theQ >> 'default' solaris one allows only one set.  If you put /usr/ucb (The BSD styleEG >> utils) in the head of your path, ps -aux works just fine on solaris.  > B > Thanks, I'll try that. But honestly this isn't a point in favour > of UNIX crap.o  	 Why not? n   > N >> >> Sure, they have different 'exotic' features, but lets face it, the basic  >> >> functionality is the same. >> >d >> > This is true. But I think this isn't very helpful as most people need additional functionality. >> >K >> >> For find, there are more differences, but the basic usage is the same < >> >> regardless of platform:  find <dir> -name "<filename>" >> >%>> > Honestly the basic functionality isn't very helpful. Especially the combination with grep is often needed. How can you case insensitively search on Solaris? Linux: find <dir> -iname '<filename>'. What about the time window -mmin <time1> -mmax <time2>? How is this accomplished on Solaris?lH >> > Honestly the quotation needed to make find work with grep is silly. >> > And why do I have to use this -exec option at all. Why can't I use pipeing the list of file names found by "find" into grep???o >> t >> You can:w$ >>         find / | grep -i filename >> should work just fine.  > A > I don't get it. What does "filename" denote? If you had writtene9 > <filename> this would have made sense from the point ofe@ > presenting the command but not from its usage because the list@ > filenames should be provided by find. Anyway this doesn't work< > and you should have known this because there is simple but- > stupid reason because this won't work ever.c= > The solution to this problem is left as an exercise for the 	 > reader.,  I Bitching about typos doesn't validate your point.  What is this "stupid" o reason?  It works just fine:  * [root@wombat /]# find / | grep -i REBOOT.h /usr/include/sys/reboot.ho- /usr/local/include/oskit/freebsd/sys/reboot.hf, /usr/src/linux-2.2.14/include/linux/reboot.h, /usr/src/linux-2.2.17/include/linux/reboot.h. /usr/i386-glibc20-linux/include/linux/reboot.h, /usr/i386-glibc20-linux/include/sys/reboot.h  1 Testing piping of find into grep on other unixes:-
 	HPUX:	yep
 	Solaris: yep  	Digital Unix:  yep1& I'm going to have to say you're wrong.   >  >> >P >> >> This works the same on all unixes I've dealt with.  Again, its an issue ofO >> >> 'exotic' features...sort of like when you use VMS 5.5 and bitch about not. >> >> having 'PIPE'. >> >$ >> > Sorry? Do you really mean that? >> q >> :)  Sort of.@ >  > [SNIP] >  >> > I don't agree besides the last statement which is awfully true and reveals at the same time the whole UNIX business pitty.	 >> > What makes you think that it's anything harder to make Windoze clone than a UNIX clone? And isn't VMS certified as "open"? What does this mean? Doesn't it mean that the interfaces are well documented, stable and published?t > Q >> Take a quick peek at the wine archives and see how often the documentation for O >> windows is wrong, incomplete, or misleading.  Windows defines itself as OpenA4 >> as well...these days 'open' doesn't mean a thing. > A > Stop that. I read that VMS has been certified by an independents > organisation.   E I've read lots of things too, but that doesn't make them true without  references.0  4 > And you probably know that the incongruence of theA > Windoze documentation and implementation is a quality assurancecB > problem with $$$ (should denote M$). Do you remember the russian@ > DOS clone? Better, faster, more stable. Implemented whithout aA > bit of official documentation others than the readily available  > one.  K DOS isn't Windows.  DOS has its share of undocumented features, but there'sRM a pile more in windows, and its not just an "oops we forgot to document this" G issue from MS.  Windows is a moving target, which makes it even harder.    >  > [SNIP] > >> > Don't take it personal. You aren't UNIX. If I criticise UNIX it's because it sucks and I've lost too much time in believing its simplistic anti-philosophy. If I insult you than because you do so to me in constantly avoiding arguing to the point. I offered to agree on practical testing - no reaction. Do you know any board of engineers, independant from UNIX and VMS, to which we could presented our arguments?s >> oQ >> Ok, fair enough.  I've been abusive, and I'll stop it.  It seemed the only way 1 >> to reply to your opinions of anything non-VMS.l > ? > I'm against UNIX and C/C++ because I know it too well and I'mu1 > sure the evolution is far beyound these archaicr > systems/languages. n  F They seem to be archaic only in your point of view.  A hammer is quiteA archaic, yet it works very well for the job it is designed for.  2  + > I'm not against BeOS (I don't know it toorA > well and I don't like that they used C++ for implementation buts$ > they offer some very good ideas),   H Yep, and its posix compliant which means that it has a bunch of software from the get-go.    - > not against MacOS from the UI point of view:  J Yet you rag on OS X, which is still (pretty much) the same user interface.  3 ; even NeXTSTEP/MacOS X although based on mach/UNIXh> > are to certain degree okay. But I won't accept non-technical > arguments for technical ones.n  E But you're more than willing to offer them.  Most of your "technical"eJ arguments are nothing more than emotional crap that have no basis in fact.   > P >> Ok, fair enough, but its far too easy for those applauses to turn into thrown! >> fruit if they do a shitty job.  > ' > Not sure I understood you correctly. e  K If VMS engineering messes up the COE implementation then people who are fore4 it now will be against it due to their incompetence.   > I didn't see a lot people B > thinking about the risks. I seems that most people here have the? > attitude that VMS is at risk and any measure could help it. I < > simply share their opinion. Instead I think this is a very> > dangerous attitude as in case of danger outmost care must be@ > taken to make the right decisions because it could be the last > ones.-  I You've never really pointed out concrete risks.  Sure, they might mess uprI the kernel, but then, they might mess it up when they're adding a non-COE H feature as well, so that's not really a risk.  "architectural purity" is is not a risk, either.     > O >> No arguments there.  If they compromise, I suspect they'll compromise on theT >> side of VMS.i >  >:-(  + Why is this sad?  FOR VMS, not against VMS.    > M >> >> You implied that things chosen by the majority are corrupt and or lower$ >> >> quality. >> > >> > No - instead I implied that majority decisions don't warrant quality. And I admit I normally expect that the majority is wrong (Hollywood movies, Windoze, Macdonalds, cars). But basically I prefer analysis - not marketing arguments.l >> > >> tM >> Same here...just because the overall trend does tend to show that the morei@ >> quantity is the lower quality, there's no direct correlation. > = > Statistically there *is* correlation. But correlation is nooA > proof technically spoken. But you are missing my point that you > > dont' argue logically. I only claimed that the million flies@ > argument isnt' worth anything. The majority could be right but > in most cases it is wrong.9 > Remember, you started this quality vs quantity thought.m  7 Actually, as I recall we were discussing marketshare.  u     >  > [SNIP] > I >> >> That's odd, because I find unix far simpler to understand than VMS.e >> >1>> > As I pointed out: people are different. But besides that the design criticism is beyound liking or disliking. In fact this is an explanation why UNIX sucks so much. What is difficult with VMS to understand? What about the CLI? Do you like shells better than DCL? Do you think man is better than HELP?t >> kR >> No, Help is truly wonderful, but it doesn't allow me to search it for keywords,P >> but man does.  There are pros and cons to each (though, universally, GNU info
 >> sucks). > > > The search is very simplistic and not very helpful althoug IB > admit without search is would even more a pain in the arse. OTOH? > with VMS HELP there is rarely a need to search for a keyword.o  K There you are wrong.  There are many times where it would be nice to search E help for a word when an error message comes up, or you don't know them# commands which might be applicable.t    @ > And the quality of HELP (not only its structured presentation)A > is much better than most man pages. Think only about the numberw > of examples.  G Sure, it is quite good. No arguments there.  Better than man?  Maybe inaC many cases.  The structured approach is nice, but sometimes it getsoB in the way, especially if I want to print out the help for a whole command.   > H >> The kernel structure of Unix is easier to understand, at least on the >> conceptual level. > B > This could well be true because there is hardly any concept (not > only my opinion).I  N YES ONLY YOUR OPINION.  You really need to learn that just because you believe something doesn't make it true.    > f >> >> >> > I also publicly offered to put money into a fund to get a full VMS Opera port. No response.
 >> >> >> >\ >> >> >> > Do you know on what platform Navigator has been developed? Could it be UNIX crap? >> >> >> > Navigator is crap. I use it to avoid Micro$oft although some people say the IE is the better browser. If there is a decent VMS browser available I'll switch to that. >> >> >>R >> >> >> So, we come back to the core of the problem:  lack of available software.T >> >> >> Whether something was built on unix doesn't make it crap, anymore than unix< >> >> >> as a whole is crap.  Why don't you write a browser? >> >> >iN >> >> > Good question. Because I have *other* things to do. Do you understand? >> >>sP >> >> Of course I do.  However, others have other things to do, and supporting a+ >> >> small-user-base OS isn't one of them.  >> > >> > Not a technical point.e >> pR >> True, its not.  But it is a valid point:  people aren't going to write softwareN >> for a platform (regardless of its quality) if there aren't very many people >> there to use it.e > ' > Definitely wrong - think about Linux.g  . Ok, lets ask ourselves:  why is Linux popular?  ! 	1) it runs on commodity hardwarei 	2) the price is right% 	3) it is source-compatible with unixi  " Guess what, why isn't VMS popular? 	g# 	1) it runs on proprietary hardwaree 	2) its expensive as hella% 	3) it isn't compatible with anythinge     > >> >> > Think about the business case. I'm sure it isn't there. The initiative will bring some UNIX apps but they will run unsatisfying and have a lot of bugs which will show up only on VMS. In the mid-term there will no more usable SW on VMS than without this COE initiative, maybe even fewer because the genuine VMS apps might have been changed to the more portable API and will then mainly be supported on UNIXes. Did you ever consider this effect?  >> >> M >> >> Yes, I did.  But I don't think it changes anything.  Answer this: is nooN >> >> software better than (possibly) buggy software?  VMS isn't going to haveP >> >> any new VMS-only software regardless of the COE initiative.  At least withN >> >> it, there's the possibility that more people would be exposed to VMS andS >> >> possibly incorporate some of VMS's strong points into their software.  Hidinga< >> >> VMS in the corner isn't going to bring new developers. >> >>> > If the COE initiative were the only way to get more VMS apps then VMS is doomed. I doubt that. I expect a few companies developing "best on VMS" software (slogan: yes, it runs on UNIX but better on VMS) and I expect new VMS customers. But I'm not sure. Compaq can kill all. >> OQ >> I'm not seeing it, which is why I feel that COE may be the only way for VMS toi >> get new users.n >> b >> >n >> >> > UNIX isn't the right tool even if it is sometimes the only tool because it lets too much to wish left. >> >>eJ >> >> I disagree.  Any tool is the right tool, compared to no tool at all. >> > >> > Maybe you are right. But having buggy UNIX crap apps on VMS only looks like having tools. And these buggy apps can even destroy VMS reputation (no, not the reputation of not having any apps around).a >> > >> aH >> No arguments there.  But since they're optional, and the user will beQ >> installing them, its their call.  But, you're right, it leads to the "anything R >> via telnet sucks"-syndrome that windows users have because they've got a shitty >> default telnet client.a > A > Good point and well in line of my fears. Burn a manager and youd- > probably won't sell him/her anything later.   I Of course, VMS is hardly selling at all now.  Its only a possibility, notu= a certainty, that its going to create the "it sucks" mindset.    > U >> >> >> I suppose we should just agree to disagree:  I think adding Unix APIs to VMSeU >> >> >> would be a good thing, and you think it'd be a bad thing.  I suppose there'snN >> >> >> no further need for discussing this, since neither of us are going to >> >> >> convince the other. >> >> >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >f>> >> > Probably. But I don't see why you think VMS is great and shouldn't vanish if you even like the few most ugly thinks of UNIX like the shell and the API and the simplistic approach (e.g. files as structureless streams of byte).  Why are you here in this NG?y >> >>aQ >> >> Its not impossible to see the beauty in two different methods.  Its easy tolO >> >> see advantages to both methods, and disadvantages.  But it all boils downh. >> >> to the right tool (as I've said before). >> >>  >> >> Brianr >> > >> > These general statements don't tell me much. What are the points which attract you to VMS after you mostly switched to UNIX and wrt the fact that your experience is that VMS is harder to understand than UNIX?t >> eR >> I like the VMS command line, though its probably because of nostalgia.  I wroteM >> quite a bit of DCL.  Its a quality OS, that in itself makes it attractive.d > @ > Quality is a black box. Sad that this really interesting point@ > which will very much appropriate to cov didn't fit into your's# > news readers (read "emacs") page.n  L Emacs wraps the lines just fine, so I do see them, but it tends to wrap themI in the middle of words and the newsreader bitches that I have submitted auK post with long lines...netscape not bitching about long lines is netscape'se fault, not Unix's.   Brian    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:30:42 +0000'% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalProgras8 Message-ID: <9ktebtg2oc7gk9jpnj68bv2ijqj828c67e@4ax.com>  A On 20 Mar 2001 14:33:18 GMT, bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)W wrote:   > H >Sure, it is quite good. No arguments there.  Better than man?  Maybe inD >many cases.  The structured approach is nice, but sometimes it getsC >in the way, especially if I want to print out the help for a wholeh	 >command.s   $ HELP/OUT=SET.TXT SET...   E will document the set command and all args into a file called SET.TXTt  / More creatively you can play with $ LIB/EXTRACT2   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:40:21 -0600'+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>nY Subject: RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalProgra L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD549F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: bdwheele@indiana.edu [mailto:bdwheele@indiana.edu]  E [I will only comment on the beginning of this incredibly long message  -Chris]a  @ > care to point to these analysis?  I submit to you that 80% of  > all statistics n > on usenet are made up. '   Yep.  Or more.   > <sarcasm> : > Oh, and nobody has ever written a bad app for VMS, they  > always stick too > unix for that! > </sarcasm>  K Well, it could be argued the VMS's design makes it more difficult (assumingoA you're after a _functional_ app) to write poor code in some ways.a  @ > Bad apps (as well as good ones) can appear on any platform at  > any time.t  < > I submit to you that while there are some crappy apps for  > unix, there aremH > more good ones for unix than there are for VMS, solely becase there is# > more software available for unix.s  K Now you get into the "how good is good" argument, which is, of course, very  subjective.f  H > MSDOS did _NOT_ have a monopoly at the beginning either.  CPM-86 was a= > viable alternative, and was readily available (though more   > expensive).  It ? > only wasn't as popular because of bundling agreements, which i > is shady at best.u  I CP/M-86 was (IS!) a much better system.  History repeats itself.  PerhapsyC that's the stance we should take -- we're all very close to the VMSoK problems, but we can learn from what DR did wrong with CP/M, what Commodoree did wrong with Amiga, etc, etc.   @ > YOU are missing the point:  VMS cannot continue to do its own  > thing and expect? > to magically come out of the dark and be everyone's favorite e > OS.  A catalystc7 > is required.  This catalyst may very well be the COE   > initiative.  It maym2 > not.  But not trying it isn't going to help any.  L Of course, compaq need not provide that catalyst.  The problem is that there0 can be no guarantee that anyone else will do it.  B > What about Occam's razor, you were so keen on promoting earlier?  ) Oh, that's usenet drivel -- ignore it. :)     > > This is rather a question ofC > > perception, marketing and management culture (which isn't thered8 > > anymore unfortunately). To me and every educated andA > > knowledgable engineer who studied both systems the advantages < > > are more obvious than the advantages of MacOS < 10 above > > Windoze.   > <dripping with sarcasm!>6 > Yeah, cooperative multitasking is *FAR* superior to  > preemptive.  Its a w? > wonder that VMS doesn't use it!  Heck, fixed run-time memory e > limits areE > a godsend compared to dynamically being able to allocate as much as  > is required at run time. I > </dripping with sarcasm>   > You are kidding, right?E  L Don't be so quick to dismiss it.  Windows is falling apart at the seams.  NTH is only vaguely passable (this comes from programming experience on bothI platforms)  The windows API is garbage -- doesn't work as documented halfiD the time, and the other half is lacking documentation.  Yeah, it hasH "pre-emptive multitasking" until you run an old app(NT fixes this, to beJ fair, with emulation done by executive solutions...), and it throws itselfH into compatibility mode.  MacOS 8 and above pre-emptively multitasks allH apps that don't use the GUI. (There are some, web servers, for instance)I MacOS is much smaller and more elegant than windows.  It's fully possible K for one dedicated individual to fully understand MacOS (though, difficult).sI It's well integrated with the hardware that it runs on (hint, ever notice J that windows ce is more stable than windows 98?).  While the GUI is ratherH limiting, it's at least soundly (in comparison) designed, and the add-onH command-line interface which apple distributes for free is significantlyF better than DOS.  Feel free to disagree, of course, but I've never metF anyone who actually _likes_ the design of windows, especially on a low' level.  But... this _is_ comp.os.vms :)l     Regards,   Chrise  ! Christopher Smith, Perl DeveloperI Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");t 'e   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2001 01:43:51 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS      EducationalPrograD- Message-ID: <87k85k49pk.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,  , bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) writes:  ? > > Statistics, independent analysis and experience showed that @ > > equally good people are about twice as efficient with VMS as > > with UNIX. > O > care to point to these analysis?  I submit to you that 80% of all statistics s > on usenet are made up. m  4 If you will allow aproximating money with eficiency:  5 => From: dilalo@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU (Gregory J. DiLalo)I => Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsD => Subject: Re: Formal Letter to the Newsgroup from Richard Marcello  => Date: 5 Feb 2001 03:24:05 GMT. => Organization: Rutgers, The State University  A => Fortunately, for me, I am a bean counter.  I spent my years incC => graduate school learning applied economics.  When I put a budgetMG => together, OpenVMS is our lowest cost of ownership platform.  It's an G => easy sell from the TCO perspective.  The numbers just don't lie, duel@ => primarily to the way AlphaClusters on OpenVMS scale.  AnytimeD => Windows or Unix comes in lower, you can bet there are costs being@ => buried somewhere.  Of course, I had to point out the flaws inD => methodology used by a few prominent IT consulting firms along the => way.k   Not perfect, I know...  D I have also seem VMS systems that have gone for YEARS with zero.zero@ maintainance. Nil, nothing, but they still worked. A purge and aC backup- restore was like a miracle to them. Another case was postedwE here by someone from the geoscience industry. He stated they used VMS F because their clients did not need a 'system person' to keep it going.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 08:15:43 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgram 3 Message-ID: <cIBLYhECTTHx@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  ` In article <995l6q$e20$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>, bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) writes: > I > I try not to think about HP-UX :)  Point taken, but that's not really a ( > Unix issue, as much as an HP-UX issue. >   ? I thought it was actually an SVID issue.  Any counter examples?u  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationm= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingS   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:49:30 -0800t0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramu, Message-ID: <3AB62A8A.4233172D@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Brian Wheeler wrote: > .s > .f > .iO > Unix is as easy to administer.  You have not shown any cases where it is not.e   Case 1:g  E I just received a report on one of my VMS systems of an unrecoverable E error on a disk block.  Information from the report gave me the drivetG and block number in question, the application that generated the error,v  and the file with the bad block.  H A short time ago I discovered in the syslog of a Solaris system a report@ of 3 bad blocks.  Device and block numbers were given.  NO otherC information available.  Contacted Sun support, it turns out SolaristH provides no mechanism for telling which file is using a given block, norF is it capable of being configured to tell me which application or file triggers a bad block report.  D How do I find out which file(s) have bad data in them so they can be
 corrected?   Case 2:   E An application, as part of its normal operations has put about 10,000nG files in a small directory tree.  I now need to clean out about half ofuE them.  All permutations using wildcards fail (the string generated bye. the shell is too long and the command aborts).   How do I remove these files?   Case 3:t  F A Solaris system I administer started giving very poor performance.  IB tracked it down to one user whose program was taking all available memory.d  E How did I find this out (or, perhaps a better question, how would youn find this out)?E   What can I do to prevent this?   Case 4:u  E One user has an application he is working on that needs to be able to  open a privileged TCP port.o  G How do I give him the ability to do so without giving him access to the  entire system?  G These are simple cases, which I hit regularly.  I do not, in any sense,eA imply that they are unsolvable on Unix.  I'm simply looking for aoB demonstration of how they are as easy to solve as they are on VMS.  
 Mark Berryman  Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2001 01:20:52 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramt- Message-ID: <87u24o4arv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   , bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) writes:  E > > Okay. But what is the best configuration to avoid artificial linet8 > > breaks leaving sometimes only a few words on a line?   > Beats me, I use emacs.  6 :) If you want to avoid the few words on a line, use aB type-setter. Any other method won't work, and throwing the problemD over the wall as you are doing with unbroken lines is worse. ALL theF line breaks are artificial for most readers, and for many, they are in  the middle of the words as well.  D > > This is true but there are many quirks necessary to have a largeB > > app compile on different UNIX flavours. Even well designed and? > > well implemented C apps (oxymoron, I know) need substantialtF > > maintenance to be portable in that sense. Have you ever read theseF > > C header files with these endless #ifdefs and #defines coping with@ > > the small but tedious (and from my point of view unecessary)& > > differences? I can only say: ugly!  9 > Ugly, perhaps.  But C isn't the only language for apps.i  F But the lack of a common call standard on any of the unixes means eachA lang is an isolated island. Plus, if you go the route of multiple 5 languages, you end up with the N^2 interface problem.y  A There are some well engineered apps on unix. What I find massivlytE depressing is the order of effort to have them portable at all acrossoF unix variants, and the mind-numbing errors people who have done it hadD to overcome to get resonable results. See David Tilbrooks papers for an example.r  E > >> Don't get me wrong, there are some valid criticisms, but many ofsE > >> them are toolset issues.  Want a standard user experience acrossrF > >> all unixes?  Install the GNU tools everywhere...magically most of) > >> the complaints addressed are solved.a  B Funny, thats what I do with unix boxes I get. Even HPUS is livable (almost) after that is done.  C > The kernel structure of Unix is easier to understand, at least on  > the conceptual level.   F Do you think so? This I would like to see if you mean the internals of< unix. The external face is easy, there is very little of it.  F I have said it before, and I will say it again. Unix is still possibleE the system for developing how to solve a problem, or finding out if a < usefull sollution is possible or practicle. It is a very badD environment to develop a solid code base that can be ported to otherC platforms. The strengths of structureless flexibility and lego likeeA build-a-brick software that are so usefull in the beginning are ab: foundation of sand when it is time to get a solid reliable implementation done.   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.>@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2001 18:25:35 GMT* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramn3 Message-ID: <9987av$n5a$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>t  , In article <3AB62A8A.4233172D@mvb.saic.com>,3 	Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:I > Brian Wheeler wrote: >> . >> . >> .P >> Unix is as easy to administer.  You have not shown any cases where it is not. > 	 > Case 1:h > G > I just received a report on one of my VMS systems of an unrecoverable G > error on a disk block.  Information from the report gave me the driveeI > and block number in question, the application that generated the error,n" > and the file with the bad block. > J > A short time ago I discovered in the syslog of a Solaris system a reportB > of 3 bad blocks.  Device and block numbers were given.  NO otherE > information available.  Contacted Sun support, it turns out SolarisrJ > provides no mechanism for telling which file is using a given block, norH > is it capable of being configured to tell me which application or file > triggers a bad block report. > F > How do I find out which file(s) have bad data in them so they can be > corrected? >   J Under linux (using ext2) its possible (and quite easy) using debugfs, and + assuming the bad block in question is 5323:n   # debugfs /dev/hda1I4 debugfs 1.18, 11-Nov-1999 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09 debugfs:  icheck 5323  Block	Inode number 5323	30g debugfs:  ncheck 30b Inode	Pathname 30	/vmlinux-2.2.17-14>	 debugfs: t  F So its not a Unix issue, per se, but a Solaris specific issue.  Though= there's no technical reason why it can't be done on Solaris.    	 > Case 2:  > G > An application, as part of its normal operations has put about 10,000tI > files in a small directory tree.  I now need to clean out about half ofiG > them.  All permutations using wildcards fail (the string generated byr0 > the shell is too long and the command aborts). >  > How do I remove these files?  K Using bash (though I'm other shells have very similar functionality), I did  a test:l   $ ls | wc -l4   10002              <-- # of files in the directory $ ls *% bash: /bin/ls: Argument list too longt $ for n in *; do rm $n; done $ ls | wc -l       0c     > 	 > Case 3:y > H > A Solaris system I administer started giving very poor performance.  ID > tracked it down to one user whose program was taking all available	 > memory.i > G > How did I find this out (or, perhaps a better question, how would youl > find this out)?e >   > What can I do to prevent this? >   L The script (or shell) which starts the program needs to use ulimit to limit I memory usage.  Sample output of "ulimit -a" shows the default settings onn solaris:% core file size (blocks)     unlimitedt% data seg size (kbytes)      unlimitedm% file size (blocks)          unlimitede open files                  256w pipe size (512 bytes)       10  stack size (kbytes)         8192% cpu time (seconds)          unlimited-  max user processes          2901% virtual memory (kbytes)     unlimitedr  N Once the limit is lowered by the superuser for a process, it cannot be raised 2 by a normal process (though, it can be lowered).      	 > Case 4:g > G > One user has an application he is working on that needs to be able to@ > open a privileged TCP port.r > I > How do I give him the ability to do so without giving him access to theb > entire system?    K Ok, this is trickier.  I got 75% of them :)  Seriously, though, I think you J can do it with the capability patches to linux, but I've never had to deal with it.     > I > These are simple cases, which I hit regularly.  I do not, in any sense,cC > imply that they are unsolvable on Unix.  I'm simply looking for a-D > demonstration of how they are as easy to solve as they are on VMS.  / Fair enough...besides, I enjoy a challenge :)  D  I Out of curiosity, is there an easy way to delete a directory structure on 7 vms without having to run "DELETE *.*;*" over and over?e   Briani   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 08:16:39 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)cY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS    EducationalProgram)e3 Message-ID: <+uxFHWuXc0xO@eisner.encompasserve.org>t   In article <rdeininger-1903011143300001@user-2ive7gk.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  > > > What does changing 'p' to 'l' have to do with ps or opendir? >   	 ps --> lss  5 ls can be written using opendir() et. al., ps cannot.a  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupnE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:31:48 -0500t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS    EducationalProgram)wL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2003011031480001@user-2ive7go.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <+uxFHWuXc0xO@eisner.encompasserve.org>,g. koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   > In articleA <rdeininger-1903011143300001@user-2ive7gk.dialup.mindspring.com>,e4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > > @ > > What does changing 'p' to 'l' have to do with ps or opendir? > >  >  > ps --> lsi > 7 > ls can be written using opendir() et. al., ps cannot.n    & Check.  That was too obvious, I guess.  J I suppose that unix preference for terseness prevented him from typing "psI --> ls" in the first place.  Saving those two extra characters simplifiedt> things greatly, and probably prevented a blackout somewhere in$ California.  Oops.  Never mind!  :-)   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 18:02:48 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS    EducationalProgram)tH Message-ID: <y41yrsv0ef.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   < > 2) never saw any UNIX vendor offer the equivalent to SEVMS  I Pitbull from Argus, based on Solaris - they have a web site whose addressh I don't have handy.s   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2001 01:27:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS    EducationalProgram)e- Message-ID: <87pufc4ag9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   I Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:l  1 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e > > > > 2) never saw any UNIX vendor offer the equivalent to SEVMS  K > Pitbull from Argus, based on Solaris - they have a web site whose addresse > I don't have handy.e  A At least HP and SGI have them. But they don't mention it to 'mearl	 mortals'.x   -- ,< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2001 13:37:45 GMT* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)W Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Educati onalProgram)n3 Message-ID: <997mf9$l5e$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>b  6 In article <20010319235152.C2459@mozart.infopuls.com>,, 	Brass Christof <brass@infopuls.com> writes:D > On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:27:59AM -0600, Christopher Smith wrote: >> > -----Original Message----- 5 >> > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]m >> n >> > Christopher Smith wrote:e >> oI >> > > Softwindows, WABI, Wine, BOCHS, .... you tell me -- why isn't Unix $ >> > > implementing the windows API? >> P >> > > Seems to me that it is. >> L: >> > Yup, it is, someway. Could you tell me what BOCHS is? >>  N >> BOCHS is kind of a different approach -- it's a "DOS emulator" ... actuallyM >> more of a "wintel" emulator.  I've heard tales of it booting OS/2, windowsmM >> 95, and linux, and actually running to an extent, though I'm not sure whats
 >> extent. >  > Then it's similar to VMware.  M No.  VMware lets the CPU run most of the instructions natively, just trappingsJ those which are required to maintain the virtual machine.  Bochs is a fullF emulator for the x86, more inline with VICE (an emulator for the C64).   > 1 >> > I repeat here what I posted already - sorry:eB >> > I know WINE and WABI - good approaches but there is somethingC >> > wrong. Both never took off. It's similar to the FX32! althoughND >> > the FX32! was even much better. It seems to me very interestingB >> > that the emulation approach isn't very popular at the moment.C >> > Instead the trend is towards using universal library APIs likeaD >> > Qt and providing apps on all major platforms (no, not including
 >> > VMS). >> hO >> Well, it's not necessarily a bad approach to provide standard interfaces.  I.L >> think that a mixture of the two would be even better.  On the other hand,C >> that's what Java is all about in a way, and it's way too slow :)i > H > I may agree or may not. What interests me is an analysis why WINE and I > WABI have failed so obviously although I think from the perspective of yH > engineering and resource economy it would make perfect sense to do it 0 > that way instead of emulating a whole machine. > C > Anyway whouldn't be VMware for Alpha the lang awaited killer app?hD > Two flavours came in mind: one to provide separate Alphas, one to C > provide also Intels. The Intel emulation has already be written. n > Why is Compaq hesitating?? > 2 >> > Have you had good experiences with WINE apps? >> eL >> Well, in a way -- I've gotten several apps to run under wine as stably asK >> they run under windows. :)  There's a lot missing in wine at this point, ! >> though, for windows 95 and up.  > / > Can I conlude that it's less than satisfying?l   You might...or might not.-   > N >> The problem really is that I don't care to emulate an "office productivity"L >> type app.  So the word processing packages, and everything else that most4 >> people want wine to work with are useless for me. > * > So to me - I use my own office software. > J >> What I'd really like wine to do is drive hardware like digital cameras,G >> parallel port scanners, etc, that I won't touch right now because it  >> requires the use of windows.P > + > WINE requires some sort of Windows also. I  H No, it does not.  It is a reimplementation of windows.  Original windowsF code is only required if you're emulating a windows binary....and only* then if the WINE libraries are incomplete.   > AFAIK from a sound PR event I > organised by SUN to promote Solaris/386 you even have to buy a Windows pG > licence - though I'm not sure about this because this was about 1990 3H > or even earlier. One of the best technical PR events I ever met. Only K > a few SUN people but highly qualified, sound answers, very good concepts.  > Alas UNIX crap ...  + WABI required a windows license, not Wine.       Brian    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2001 02:40 CSTs' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t$ Subject: Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!- Message-ID: <20MAR200102402666@gerg.tamu.edu>c  ' mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu writes... c }In article <FreeThe.OpenVMS_7@nowhere.nil>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:h }>(b) Business Ready.  }>7 }>* Cost around 2^11 USD (**INCLUDING** User Licenses).o }               ^^^^   } E }I sure hope that would include user licenses - that's 200 Billion USc
 }dollars.  } 
 }David Mathogo  A Not it isn't. You were presumably thinking of 2E11, i.e. 2*10^11.  He said 2^11. 2^11 = 2048.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 15:22:43 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>$ Subject: Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!5 Message-ID: <20010320152243.5421.qmail@nym.alias.net>o  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  C On 19 Mar 2001, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) wrote:lH >In article <5.0.2.1.0.20010319122529.01977da0@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski ><dan@sidhe.org> writes:2 >>At 05:12 PM 3/19/2001 +0000, David Mathog wrote:: >>>In article <FreeThe.OpenVMS_7@nowhere.nil>, Doc.Cypher . >>><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: >>> >(b) Business Ready. >>> >e: >>> >* Cost around 2^11 USD (**INCLUDING** User Licenses). >>>                ^^^^  >>>tG >>>I sure hope that would include user licenses - that's 200 Billion USa >>>dollars.  >>: >>That looks like 2^11, not 2*10^11. 2^11 is only $1024... >oC >Oops, right.  But then, how often do you see prices for a computere >posted in powers of two?   C It's a new marketing gimmic for the numerically challenged (usuallye marketing or management).o  6 I count on Alpha VMS for the answers. Anyone else? <g>     Doc.   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----e Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBOraPcsriC3SGiziTAQGSuAf+LkCEp/a7gnglIv+EH8OGs37ZIFreojVG@ g6JgiYuR5C/pQyhsOu3Jx9dg2EgjTBnITO6c7cy98ZxneFLniQGIu+bVaFFov4yT@ TB4aCru51HYRW+x/BtqXzLdzj5amZ9KyYfb3zuGwwQ/LugIMv5FvR43zIEamAijP@ CRgpnmbcqpQgl82fbiBfMtpo0Fi543ARWYoZ14RAMLYdWuD1n76ni7SlgKVmKOVq@ RhvoJyoMsbIVV9YDQxTYaQTkCGHVajIDw7jfBKj1Dpx84u6dTfZ4OryEYsoy5T2F8 X95wLhDtAmyNimQ/QlAvg1xX8B8bajJFEWPkppNcTtzSopFfu/p8rg== =7wwci -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----s   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 21:24:14 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!- Message-ID: <873dc860ap.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   6 Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:  C > I nominate the following strategic targets for an entry level VMSt	 > system:    > (a) Web Ready.  D > * Capable of running a small general-purpose website for the small4 > business with a Cable or xDSL Internet connection.  ) WASD, Apache, OSU, Netscape Purvoyor(?). t  C > * Ready to handle staff and business email (say, not more than 15o > accounts).  B Most of it is out of the box ( given TCP/IP with an SMTP mailer ).7 Adding All-in-fun for those whose tastses run that way.i  F > * Acting as a small web-proxy and configurable filter to ensure best > use of limited net bandwidth.    WASD. And others I guess.   s > (b) Business Ready.    What does this mean?  7 > * Cost around 2^11 USD (**INCLUDING** User Licenses).l  L Ah, licences... I would like to see: VMS, all go to unlimited, just like the> original, and include full DECnet, IP, X, and full clustering.  7 > * Built-in patch retrieval and installation software.v   It is there.  9 > * Simple (e.g. Pathworks v5) file serving capabilities.o  F Good idea. Not everyone needs the full fruit of PW. Means you are into& tracking the bogware changes though...  ' > * Automated backup software included.   G Hum, this is s problem. I consider 8mm or DLT a minium. DAT is just noteI a real media for backup, though DDS3 or DDS4 may be better or good enoughm5 from what I hear. But I'm somewhat anal about this ;)v  ; > * Low-cost basic training in simple administrative tasks.   3 Have to have them available. See the edu threads...l   > (c) Developer Ready. >  > * Give away (gasp!) DECC.   C Well, it is the best of the worst... Just be sure to include BLISS,yF Pascal, Fortran, and ( shock horror ) Cobol. And perhaps as a low cost option, DTR, Forms et al.i  > > * Perl and other web-friendly tools bundled with the system.  = What is a 'web friendly' tool? One that only works sometimes?   D > * Simple ring-bound manual(s) covering care, maintenance, and good4 >   security policies (Just like the good old days).  B A new user manual is needed for this. As are some well thought out; install followup procedures to get the systems on the road.i  B > Given the above system, I think any aspiring e-businessman wouldD > jump at the chance to run the same OS as his favourite Wall Street	 > Casino.C  C The bigest problem the e-bustnessman faces is small capital, and at A best a tight cash flow. Finding several $K, up front can drop youaG right out of the deal. You have to be in the lease/rental/pay-as-you-go-G to get going. HP and IBM know this well. In fact it is near pure IBM of  old.  K > Now, once you've built this lovely imaginary system, give the first 1,000aF > away to major edjuyacashunal e-stablishments. (Don't forget the fullM > licenses *and* software kits this time!) That should help to get the people.J > who're going to run these systems trained. Plus it will aid in getting a/ > whole new batch of affordable apps developed.   H Ah, these 'imaginary' systems have been around near forever... It is the price that kills them. o  4 > And if these newly developed apps are a bit rough?  > > Fine! It'll keep Hoff and the rest of us busy topping up the > retirement funds.t  F I can hear the cringes from here... having seen the promise vs the RIF
 from afar!  < To get this going, you need two types of app. First, generalF accounting and that cruft. Alas, every place has their own set of lawsD about this. One size will NOT fit all. Second are the fair number ofF area specific apps to deal with the specific business. With out these,! you have the bottle with no beer.h  F Oh, and I think you HAVE to have a transition path FROM bills bogware.# Go see what Sun are up to for that.e   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.b@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Mar 2001 02:13:00 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Help/message non help0 Message-ID: <87g0g848cz.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  F >   Locks are taken out on SYSUAF records, as records are updated whenF >   logins occur.  I'd be surprised to learn that the file itself was F >   exlusively locked, since that would screw up mail reception and a D >   wide variety of applications that are expecting to share access.  F There is *something* that still grabs SYSUAF in exclusive mode. I have0 reliable reports of this last year in a cluster.  C >   (You are also seeing a FILEACC error and not a FLK error -- theeG >   FILEACC error user action from HELP/MESSAGE is "The system manager  E >   should ensure that the SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT file exists and has aB >   system read access.  Then you can retry the login procedure.")  > Hoff could you send who ever did the 'see your system manager'D messages on a one way trip to windowsland of something. Getting toldA that looking in the mirror will fix the problem is little help toeE locating the problem, or the mirror :) At least add some solid detailt to the messages.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:30:59 +0000 (UTC)e9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>1$ Subject: Intra-Cluster Communication- Message-ID: <997bh3$se5$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>r   Hi  1 Anyone who knows of programming examples for ICC?t; The programming concepts manual does not have any, and moreh( documentation on ICC would also be nice.   Regards, Roar Throns   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:58:10 -0800o, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>( Subject: Re: Intra-Cluster Communication3 Message-ID: <997uju$3iia$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>i  E I looked a while ago.  The only thing I could find was some code from F the BruDen Company's vms version 7.? update course.  I believe it's inE dsnlink if you have access to that. I've lost my copy somewhere alongn the way.   jims  3 "Roar Throns" <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote in message ' news:997bh3$se5$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no...c > Hi >:3 > Anyone who knows of programming examples for ICC?e= > The programming concepts manual does not have any, and more * > documentation on ICC would also be nice. >-
 > Regards, > Roar Throns   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:39:47 +0800 ' From: Tim Sneddon <tsneddon@olc.com.au>l% Subject: Jumper settings for an RZ23LP< Message-ID: <2FCE1FC4E068D411877B00D0B7477F4D0E19EB@onlpc26>  I Does anyone have the jumper settings for a RZ23L? I did send this messagemK already, but I forgot to change the subject field. I did look at the CompaqnI site as well and found plenty of manuals on PC's and stuff like that, butb not too much on DEC hardware.l  p Tim.  D --------------------------------------------------------------------C "You can download an atmosphere and dial up a groove, but there's aoC certain magic when three musicians and a dyslexic get together and   play in a room."
    -- BonoD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:54:28 +0000o5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com>h) Subject: RE: Jumper settings for an RZ23LoN Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D308018B1303@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  3                           RZ23L Drive Module Layoute  E         +-----------------------------------------------------------+eG      Connector to HDA                                             ||---iG         | +---+                                                   ||---nG         | |   |                                                   ||--- G         | |   |                                                   ||---hG         | |   |                                                   ||---eG         | |   |                                                   ||---sG         | |   |                                                   ||---dG         | +---+                                                   ||---oG         |                                                         ||----G         |                                                         ||---sG         |                                                         ||---hD         |                                                      +---+D         |                                                      |  --J         |                                                      |  -- PowerD         |         . . E1                                       |  --	 ConnectoreD         |         . . E2                                       |  --D         |         . . E3                                       +---+C         |    SCSI ID Jumpers                                      |UC         +---------------------------------------------------------+8      8                           SCSI ID jumper settings  RZ23L  9                       +---------------------------------+n9                       | SCSI ID    E1      E2      E3   |w9                       +---------------------------------+ 9                       |    0       Out     Out     Out  |d9                       |    1       In      Out     Out  |t9                       |    2       Out     In      Out  |,9                       |    3       In      In      Out  |d9                       |    4       Out     Out     In   |n9                       |    5       In      Out     In   |i9                       |    6       Out     In      In   |-9                       |    7       In      In      In   |G9                       +---------------------------------+:         -----Original Message-----. From: Tim Sneddon [mailto:tsneddon@olc.com.au]% Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 7:40 AMa To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3% Subject: Jumper settings for an RZ23LB    I Does anyone have the jumper settings for a RZ23L? I did send this messageMK already, but I forgot to change the subject field. I did look at the Compaq:I site as well and found plenty of manuals on PC's and stuff like that, butw not too much on DEC hardware.s  A Tim.  D --------------------------------------------------------------------C "You can download an atmosphere and dial up a groove, but there's atC certain magic when three musicians and a dyslexic get together and d play in a room."
    -- BonoD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:26:27 +0800r' From: Tim Sneddon <tsneddon@olc.com.au>w) Subject: RE: Jumper settings for an RZ23Lo< Message-ID: <2FCE1FC4E068D411877B00D0B7477F4D0E19EC@onlpc26>  L The set of jumpers I was really interested in are located on the side of the disk.    Tim.  D --------------------------------------------------------------------C "You can download an atmosphere and dial up a groove, but there's a>C certain magic when three musicians and a dyslexic get together and > play in a room."
    -- BonoD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:29:54 +0100v$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>: Subject: lexical function F$FAO and directives !UL and !XL* Message-ID: <009F94D2.B1B77321.1@decus.de>  B Strange results occurred using the lexical function F$FAO from DCL level:  ( 	$ write sys$output f$fao("!3UL", 12345) 	***  ' 	^^^ ... as expected (numeric overflow)v  ( 	$ write sys$output f$fao("!3XL", 12345) 	039  6 	^^^ ... not expected at all (%D12345 = %X3039), i.e., 		no indication of a problem  E Tested and checked using the following OpenVMS versions: 5.5-2 (VAX), * 6.2 (VAX) and 7.1 (Alpha at DECUS Munich).  A F$FAO directives "!nUL" and "!nXL" are used frequently within DCLi? procedures for text formatting purposes (i.e., columns of fixedy width).t  
 Any hints?   Michaell   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:50:37 -0500a. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>> Subject: Re: lexical function F$FAO and directives !UL and !XL+ Message-ID: <997qlb$n5m$1@bob.news.rcn.net>s  7 The system services reference manual does document thisvF difference in behavior.  !XL directives are truncated, !UL and !ZL are5 filled with the asterisk character as you have noted.g  2 Whether or not it is consistent is another matter.   Ken Randella  / Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> wrote in messageT$ news:009F94D2.B1B77321.1@decus.de...D > Strange results occurred using the lexical function F$FAO from DCL > level: >,) > $ write sys$output f$fao("!3UL", 12345)a > ***  >w( > ^^^ ... as expected (numeric overflow) >-) > $ write sys$output f$fao("!3XL", 12345)  > 039l >l7 > ^^^ ... not expected at all (%D12345 = %X3039), i.e.,> > no indication of a problem >tG > Tested and checked using the following OpenVMS versions: 5.5-2 (VAX), , > 6.2 (VAX) and 7.1 (Alpha at DECUS Munich). > C > F$FAO directives "!nUL" and "!nXL" are used frequently within DCLoA > procedures for text formatting purposes (i.e., columns of fixedn	 > width).n >  > Any hints? >s	 > Michaell   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:59:56 +0100i From: manser@decus.deb, Subject: login failure when sysuaf is locked* Message-ID: <009F94DF.45B970BD.1@decus.de>  N The Job Liste_EOLE   submits the Job Liste_ICW400 every morning  at 6:00 Uhr, ' Here is a log extract of liste_eole.logs  + $  IF RESUBMIT .EQS. "J" THEN GOTO RESUBMIT. $!B $!----------------------------------------------------------------6 $!*** Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex Liste_icw400 integriert $  SUBMIT/KEEP LISTE_ICW400.COMrB Job LISTE_ICW400 (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 276) started on SYS$BATCH,                                          ---# $  REQUEST "LISTE_ICW400 Submitted"F $!B $!---------------------------------------------------------------- $!*** VERARBEITENbE $ DEL/LOG/NOCONF/BACKUP/BEFORE=YESTERDAY DBS_DAT:DBS*_VERARBEITET.*;*c $!J $!------------------------------------------------------------------------ $ENDE:& $  REQUEST "**** ENDE LISTE_EOLE !!!!" $  SHOW TIME    6-MAR-2001 06:01:28 $  EXITl8   PRODUCTION   job terminated at  6-MAR-2001 06:01:28.34  > Im OPERATOR LOG search sys$manager:operator.verarbeitet icw400+ we find BATCH_586, LISTE_ICW400 Submitted  u but these failse BATCH_xxx, LISTE_ICW400 STARTh6 BATCH_xxx, LISTE_ICW400 Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex ENDE   $ neither in  sys$manager:operator.log  ; it means that the jobs starts but does not create a logfile    here is an extract  B $!----------------------------------------------------------------6 $!*** Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex Liste_icw400 integriert $  SUBMIT/KEEP LISTE_ICW400.COM B Job LISTE_ICW400 (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 746) started on SYS$BATCH,                                          ^^^# $  REQUEST "LISTE_ICW400 Submitted"u  ? 2) VAX6> acc/full/since=yest/out=nazim$arbeit:acc.txt accountng W %ACC-I-INPUT, DSA4:[CLUSTER_COMMON]ACCOUNTNG_VAX6.DAT;16, 3460 selected, 28774 rejecteda  VAX6> lesen nazim$arbeit:acc.txt .....0  
 LOGIN FAILURE 
 -------------O= Username:          PRODUCTION        UIC:               [0,0]eO Account:           <batch>           Finish time:       15-MAR-2001 06:00:03.70 O Process ID:        2101E091          Start time:        15-MAR-2001 06:00:03.47aO Owner ID:                            Elapsed time:                0 00:00:00.236O Terminal name:                       Processor time:              0 00:00:00.00C9 Remote node addr:                    Priority:          4a@ Remote node name:                    Privilege <31-00>: FFFFFFFF@ Remote ID:                           Privilege <63-32>: FFFFFFFF Remote full name:k@ Queue entry:       746               Final status code: 00D38044                    ^^^ Queue name:        SYS$BATCH Job name:          LISTE_ICW400-N Final status text: %LOGIN-F-FILEACC, error accessing system authorization file  B Page faults:              155        Direct IO:                  0B Page fault reads:           5        Buffered IO:                4B Peak working set:         283        Volumes mounted:            0      X VAX6> analyze/audit/full/since=yest/event=logfail/outp=nazim$arbeit:aud.txt sys$cluster:  VAX6> lesen nazim$arbeit:aud.txt ......  P Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on VAX6, system id: 10305 Auditable event:          Batch process login failurea1 Event time:               15-MAR-2001 06:00:03.60 * PID:                      2101E091        * Process name:             BATCH_746       * Username:                 PRODUCTION      " Process owner:            [SYSTEM]D Image name:               DSA5:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEU Status:                   %LOGIN-F-FILEACC, error accessing system authorization file     J I know that during this a lot of batch jobs runs which do multiple submits   My question is:i  9 Is the sysuaf exclusively locked during multiple logins ?X   reguards Nazim Manser    email:  & work: Nazim.Manser@socgen.com   (MIME)& perm  nmanser@progis.de         (MIME)+       manser@decus.de           (text only) +       manser@eisner.decus.org   (Text only)o   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 10:09:34 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young),0 Subject: Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked3 Message-ID: <K5K8wj5iADuX@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  B In article <009F94DF.45B970BD.1@decus.de>, manser@decus.de writes:  W > Status:                   %LOGIN-F-FILEACC, error accessing system authorization file  >  > L > I know that during this a lot of batch jobs runs which do multiple submits >  > My question is:E > ; > Is the sysuaf exclusively locked during multiple logins ?u >   2 	No.  Are you sure you are pointing to sysuaf?  IfD 	sys$system:sysuaf.dat, is there you should be good to go.  However,; 	maybe you are picking up a bad sysaf logical.  Add this to 
 	your run:   	$ show logical/full sysuafm   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:05:30 +0100e, From: Nazim MANSER <Nazim.Manser@socgen.com>, Subject: login failure when sysuaf is lockedT Message-ID: <068343AB771BA005*/c=FR/admd=ATLAS/prmd=SG/o=INFI/s=MANSER/g=NAZIM/@MHS>  N The Job Liste_EOLE   submits the Job Liste_ICW400 every morning  at 6:00 Uhr,   ' Here is a log extract of liste_eole.logi      + $  IF RESUBMIT .EQS. "J" THEN GOTO RESUBMITe $!B $!----------------------------------------------------------------6 $!*** Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex Liste_icw400 integriert $  SUBMIT/KEEP LISTE_ICW400.COMlB Job LISTE_ICW400 (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 276) started on SYS$BATCH,                                          ---# $  REQUEST "LISTE_ICW400 Submitted"i $!B $!---------------------------------------------------------------- $!*** VERARBEITENfE $ DEL/LOG/NOCONF/BACKUP/BEFORE=YESTERDAY DBS_DAT:DBS*_VERARBEITET.*;*h $!J $!------------------------------------------------------------------------ $ENDE:& $  REQUEST "**** ENDE LISTE_EOLE !!!!" $  SHOW TIME    6-MAR-2001 06:01:28 $  EXITy8   PRODUCTION   job terminated at  6-MAR-2001 06:01:28.34  > Im OPERATOR LOG search sys$manager:operator.verarbeitet icw400+ we find BATCH_586, LISTE_ICW400 Submitted  t but these failsn BATCH_xxx, LISTE_ICW400 START 6 BATCH_xxx, LISTE_ICW400 Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex ENDE $ neither in  sys$manager:operator.log; it means that the jobs starts but does not create a logfilen here is an extract      B $!----------------------------------------------------------------  6 $!*** Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex Liste_icw400 integriert   $  SUBMIT/KEEP LISTE_ICW400.COMs  B Job LISTE_ICW400 (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 746) started on SYS$BATCH+                                          ^^i  # $  REQUEST "LISTE_ICW400 Submitted"       ? 2) VAX6> acc/full/since=yest/out=nazim$arbeit:acc.txt accountngc  W %ACC-I-INPUT, DSA4:[CLUSTER_COMMON]ACCOUNTNG_VAX6.DAT;16, 3460 selected, 28774 rejected     VAX6> lesen nazim$arbeit:acc.txt   .....,      
 LOGIN FAILURE   
 -------------e= Username:          PRODUCTION        UIC:               [0,0]:O Account:           <batch>           Finish time:       15-MAR-2001 06:00:03.70 O Process ID:        2101E091          Start time:        15-MAR-2001 06:00:03.47nO Owner ID:                            Elapsed time:                0 00:00:00.23oO Terminal name:                       Processor time:              0 00:00:00.00i9 Remote node addr:                    Priority:          4p@ Remote node name:                    Privilege <31-00>: FFFFFFFF@ Remote ID:                           Privilege <63-32>: FFFFFFFF Remote full name:v@ Queue entry:       746               Final status code: 00D38044!                                ^^C Queue name:        SYS$BATCH Job name:          LISTE_ICW400oN Final status text: %LOGIN-F-FILEACC, error accessing system authorization fileB Page faults:              155        Direct IO:                  0B Page fault reads:           5        Buffered IO:                4B Peak working set:         283        Volumes mounted:            0      X VAX6> analyze/audit/full/since=yest/event=logfail/outp=nazim$arbeit:aud.txt sys$cluster:    VAX6> lesen nazim$arbeit:aud.txt   ......      P Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on VAX6, system id: 1030  5 Auditable event:          Batch process login failure   1 Event time:               15-MAR-2001 06:00:03.60   * PID:                      2101E091        * Process name:             BATCH_746       * Username:                 PRODUCTION      " Process owner:            [SYSTEM]D Image name:               DSA5:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXEU Status:                   %LOGIN-F-FILEACC, error accessing system authorization filei    J I know that during this a lot of batch jobs runs which do multiple submits   My question is:v  9 Is the sysuaf exclusively locked during multiple logins ?    reguards Nazim Manser    email:  & work: Nazim.Manser@socgen.com   (MIME)& perm  nmanser@progis.de         (MIME)+       manser@decus.de           (text only)a+       manser@eisner.decus.org   (Text only)i   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Mar 2001 16:13:06 GMT From: Doran167W@aol.com 0 Subject: Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked* Message-ID: <997vii$jg3$1@news.netmar.com>  
 In articleI <068343AB771BA005*/c=FR/admd=ATLAS/prmd=SG/o=INFI/s=MANSER/g=NAZIM/@MHS>,h  / Nazim MANSER  <Nazim.Manser@socgen.com> writes:9I >The Job Liste_EOLE   submits the Job Liste_ICW400 every morning  at 6:00m Uhr,   >s( >Here is a log extract of liste_eole.log >  >s >t, >$  IF RESUBMIT .EQS. "J" THEN GOTO RESUBMIT >$!aC >$!-----------------------------------------------------------------7 >$!*** Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex Liste_icw400 integriert   >$  SUBMIT/KEEP LISTE_ICW400.COMC >Job LISTE_ICW400 (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 276) started on SYS$BATCH1- >                                         --- $ >$  REQUEST "LISTE_ICW400 Submitted" >$! C >$!----------------------------------------------------------------. >$!*** VERARBEITENF >$ DEL/LOG/NOCONF/BACKUP/BEFORE=YESTERDAY DBS_DAT:DBS*_VERARBEITET.*;* >$! K >$!------------------------------------------------------------------------- >$ENDE:-' >$  REQUEST "**** ENDE LISTE_EOLE !!!!"d
 >$  SHOW TIMEs >   6-MAR-2001 06:01:28e >$  EXIT9 >  PRODUCTION   job terminated at  6-MAR-2001 06:01:28.34e >o? >Im OPERATOR LOG search sys$manager:operator.verarbeitet icw400-, >we find BATCH_586, LISTE_ICW400 Submitted   >but these fails >BATCH_xxx, LISTE_ICW400 START7 >BATCH_xxx, LISTE_ICW400 Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex ENDE v% >neither in  sys$manager:operator.logJ< >it means that the jobs starts but does not create a logfile >here is an extracte >c >e >.C >$!----------------------------------------------------------------  > 7 >$!*** Abstimmung Octagon/Eurex Liste_icw400 integriert- >-  >$  SUBMIT/KEEP LISTE_ICW400.COM > C >Job LISTE_ICW400 (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 746) started on SYS$BATCH , >                                         ^^ > $ >$  REQUEST "LISTE_ICW400 Submitted" >  >  > @ >2) VAX6> acc/full/since=yest/out=nazim$arbeit:acc.txt accountng > I >%ACC-I-INPUT, DSA4:[CLUSTER_COMMON]ACCOUNTNG_VAX6.DAT;16, 3460 selected,  28774 rejected >-! >VAX6> lesen nazim$arbeit:acc.txt  >  >......  >  >  >  >LOGIN FAILURE >  >-------------> >Username:          PRODUCTION        UIC:               [0,0]8 >Account:           <batch>           Finish time:       15-MAR-2001  06:00:03.70 D >Process ID:        2101E091          Start time:        15-MAR-2001 06:00:03.47 D >Owner ID:                            Elapsed time:                0 00:00:00.23 D >Terminal name:                       Processor time:              0 00:00:00.00 : >Remote node addr:                    Priority:          4A >Remote node name:                    Privilege <31-00>: FFFFFFFF A >Remote ID:                           Privilege <63-32>: FFFFFFFF  >Remote full name:A >Queue entry:       746               Final status code: 00D38044 " >                               ^^ >Queue name:        SYS$BATCH   >Job name:          LISTE_ICW400J >Final status text: %LOGIN-F-FILEACC, error accessing system authorization fileC >Page faults:              155        Direct IO:                  0 C >Page fault reads:           5        Buffered IO:                4 C >Peak working set:         283        Volumes mounted:            0C >I >  >  >VAX6>E analyze/audit/full/since=yest/event=logfail/outp=nazim$arbeit:aud.txt  sys$cluster: > ! >VAX6> lesen nazim$arbeit:aud.txtO >  >....... >  >  > H >Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on VAX6, system id:t 1030 > 6 >Auditable event:          Batch process login failure > 2 >Event time:               15-MAR-2001 06:00:03.60 >O+ >PID:                      2101E091         + >Process name:             BATCH_746        + >Username:                 PRODUCTION       # >Process owner:            [SYSTEM] E >Image name:               DSA5:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXE-C >Status:                   %LOGIN-F-FILEACC, error accessing system: authorization file >e >   K >I know that during this a lot of batch jobs runs which do multiple submitse >n >My question is: > : >Is the sysuaf exclusively locked during multiple logins ? >i >reguards Nazim Manser >f >email:c >g' >work: Nazim.Manser@socgen.com   (MIME)m' >perm  nmanser@progis.de         (MIME)n, >      manser@decus.de           (text only), >      manser@eisner.decus.org   (Text only)      F I have seen this happen only once under VMS 5.5-2 on a 4 node VAX 6300J cluster. I found out that one of my not-so-bright co-workers went home and% left his terminal at the UAF> prompt.r     Hope this helps,
 Doran Werling  RW/SCS Inc.-        O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  ----- M   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsuI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts1L made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:29:19 GMT-, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>0 Subject: Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked& Message-ID: <3AB78544.952F4CE2@gmx.ch>  O During login, the SYSUAF.DAT file is opened for read (afaik) and fortunately in P share mode so that many interactive users may log in at the same time. Even when< you run authorize, the SYSUAF.DAT is accessed in share mode.  C I suggest you add an audit alarm for file access failure like this: 0 $ set audit/alarm/enable=file_access=failure=allI then you will find a detailed reason why the file was not accessed in the  operator.log tomorrow morning.   D.   manser@decus.de wrote: > ; > Is the sysuaf exclusively locked during multiple logins ?s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:15:37 GMT22 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked1 Message-ID: <ZeMt6.165$eE2.9198@news.cpqcorp.net>   = In article <068343AB771BA005*/c=FR/admd=ATLAS/prmd=SG/o=INFI/qF s=MANSER/g=NAZIM/@MHS>, Nazim MANSER <Nazim.Manser@socgen.com> writes: ..  :$  SUBMIT/KEEP LISTE_ICW400.COM  D   I've seen some weird stuff happen with queues when multiple SYSUAF   files are used.m  A   Given the PID shown in the accounting record, this is clearly at7   cluster.  Please issue the following SYSMAN commands:$  *   Display the settings across the cluster:   SYSMAN> SET ENV/CLUSTERu  J   check each logical name displayed, ensuring the translation is the same:    SYSMAN> DO SHOW LOGICAL SYSUAF  ;   check each FID displayed, ensuring the value is the same:s"   SYSMAN> DO DIRECTORY/FILE sysuaf  C   And strictly for grins, try specifying a unique logfile name and 13   directory for each batch job that is starting up.l  : :Is the sysuaf exclusively locked during multiple logins ?  D   Locks are taken out on SYSUAF records, as records are updated whenD   logins occur.  I'd be surprised to learn that the file itself was D   exlusively locked, since that would screw up mail reception and a B   wide variety of applications that are expecting to share access.A   (You are also seeing a FILEACC error and not a FLK error -- theiE   FILEACC error user action from HELP/MESSAGE is "The system manager iC   should ensure that the SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT file exists and has i@   system read access.  Then you can retry the login procedure.")  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:38:53 +0000-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>g0 Subject: Re: login failure when sysuaf is locked8 Message-ID: <3q1fbt8dk6lcpavmjaak6eir1abdmldkls@4ax.com>  : On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:59:56 +0100, manser@decus.de wrote:   >My question is: >Q: >Is the sysuaf exclusively locked during multiple logins ?  E No. The only occasion I have seen this happen is if BACKUP is backing/F up sysuaf.dat  and the switch /ignore=interlock is not used. If you doE not use /ignore=interlock backup will require exclusive access to anyE file it opens. >* >reguards Nazim Manser >  >email:E > ' >work: Nazim.Manser@socgen.com   (MIME)I' >perm  nmanser@progis.de         (MIME)2, >      manser@decus.de           (text only), >      manser@eisner.decus.org   (Text only)   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:30:43 +0100L, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.n0spam.nl>+ Subject: Re: One For the CI Cluster Expertsa* Message-ID: <997103$36d$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  . "BrianNFO" <briannfo@aol.com> wrote in message4 news:20010319161323.24295.00002773@ng-fc1.aol.com...2 > >Have you installed the VAXDRIV03_062 patch kit?J > >Are there any errors on the network card in this system?  I'd wager theJ > >network  will be the source of the problem.  $ ANA/SYS - SHOW LAN/COUNT > >and look for errors.SI > >The CI does not appear to play any role in this since PEA0 is the LAVCn% > >driver for the network interfaces.A > >T >VA > Indeed this is correct.  The PEDRIVER I see is used for clustert
 communication0I > over the LAN.  (I should've realized this.)  So, now I'm wondering if IC have my G > cluster mis-configured.  I have a mixed-interconnect cluster with oneM singleE > satellite system, yet the NISCS_LOAD_PEA0 param is set to 1 on each5 system. K > I'm trying to determine that just by loading this driver, the system will  use0E > this for scs as opposed to he CI?  Is there any way to control this 	 bahavior?0K > I noticed that cluster_config placed an "interconnect" entry in modparamsn andaL > all of my CI nodes say INTERCONNECT="NICI" so my assumption is this is the
 > control.  L No, it will not. Up to V7.2 the CI takes precedence over any network adapterK with respect to SCS traffic, even if a gigabit ethernet adapter is present.SJ In V7.3 there will be more control over which cluster interconnect will be used.r   >c8 > Clearly it's using the CI for the traffic to my HSJ's. >  > Brian    Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:01:40 +0000e5 From: "Steeples, Oliver" <Oliver.Steeples@compaq.com> + Subject: RE: One For the CI Cluster ExpertseN Message-ID: <F498D199EDB12D468CD2C66680D308018B1304@reoexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net>  L The cluster reboot is so vms gets it's databases correct.  If a known systemF is put back into the cluster and it's CI ID is different then loads ofL problems start to occur so the best thing to do is shutdown the cluster thenF make the changes.  On reboot the cluster doesn't know anything so self$ discovers ant new nodes and HSJ's.     	Olivers   -----Original Message-----0 From: briannfo@aol.com [mailto:briannfo@aol.com]$ Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:10 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr' Subject: One For the CI Cluster Experts     J I had a problem with something tonight and I can't figure this one out.  I amG replacing a 6320 with a 6620.  The 6320 has a CIBCA, and the 6620 has a  CIXCD.  D When I booted the 6620 off the 6320's system disk, my plan was to do	 licenses,nH system params, etc.  Shortly after the system joins the cluster, I startE getting "port has closed virtual circuit" to the other nodes.  Up and-J down...every few minutes.  When the system finally came up, it was logging PEA0 errors constantly.    H I pulled a CIXCD out of another good system, thinking I might have a bad boardeG or a rev level issue, but the problem remained.  Someone at Compaq saide "reboottK your cluster."  I sceptically did, and still the same problem.  So for now,n I'm I back on the old system.  Any thoughts??  Oh, and if I'm missing somethingp+ blatently obvious, be gentle.  Thanks much.t   Brian    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:39:04 +0000a" From: Nic P Clews <nclews@csc.com>+ Subject: Re: One For the CI Cluster Expertso@ Message-ID: <OF9151D000.450DE57E-ON80256A14.00507B34@eu.csc.com>   Brian,  ! Are you seeing PAA0 port timeoutss& or PEA0 port timeouts during the boot?  + To be frank, there's not enough information  in your message.  ( Some things I would check, if it is PEA0( which is showing the problems, check for the CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DATc$ that the same version is being used.' (wrong passwords give PEA0 port errors)b  ' Is the amount of memory changing on the & systems? I have observed problems with  various settings of NPAGEVIR and$ apparent problems with PAA ports. If% you are booting through the same root-& this explanation would be more likely.) If the 6620 has more memory than the 6320 * then pull memory until it's the same, then- retry. If all's well, then failing any betterS, suggestions, you're in for a trial and error% period of trying different values fori PHYSICALPAGES and NPAGEDYN in-+ conversational boot until problems go away.-  # When you've successfully booted, goB# for an AUTOGEN with FEEDBACK to getE$ something like sensible values after cleaning up MODPARAMS.DAT.  2 In fact, that is what I would do even with the PEA/ errors (check cluster authorization), scrub the02 conversational fiddling, it can be hairy if you're1 not sure what your doing, take out any referencesh$ to NPAGEDYN in MODPARAMS.DAT, do the) AUTOGEN with FEEDBACK, REBOOT, chuck it ae2 couple of aspirins, and if you still get the same,& make another appointment with the doc.  2 You cannot rule out hardware though at this stage.   Hope this helps, Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:35:09 +0000!  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com+ Subject: Re: One For the CI Cluster ExpertsWH Message-ID: <OF25219A2A.0C05FE78-ON80256A15.004F13D0@qedi.quintiles.com>   Brian,@ Are the two systems on the same ethernet segment?  Are you sure?I Is the problem potentially that the two systems are on different ethernet H segments and there is only routing between the two rather than bridging?G SCS is non-routable after all.  One node could be sending out multicast,H Hello messages which the other node is picking up, trying to respond to,B failing to get through and considering that the circuit is closed.  G You could perhaps try connecting the ethernet(s) from both systems to a 6 local hub/switch and see if they continue to complain.  / Is anyone else on the ethernet having problems?    Steve.   BrianNFO wrote:mG >>>When I booted the 6620 off the 6320's system disk, my plan was to do0	 licenses,nH system params, etc.  Shortly after the system joins the cluster, I startE getting "port has closed virtual circuit" to the other nodes.  Up and J down...every few minutes.  When the system finally came up, it was logging PEA0 errors constantly.<<<u   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:43:18 GMTS1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>t+ Subject: Re: One For the CI Cluster Expertss2 Message-ID: <3AB76CE9.A1B6D2DB@clarityconnect.com>  H VMS will 'use' all available SCS paths all the time.  VMS will determineF the 'best' path between any 2 nodes and prefer that path to all othersG between the nodes.  But it will also occasionally 'use' the other pathsvD to make sure they are still working thus you can see virtual circuitF closures between systems without any adverse effect if those 2 systemsG have additional circuits between them.  In a mixed interconnect clusteraG that includes the network you must have NISCS_LOAD_PEA0 set to 1 on all:A nodes.  When a node attempts to join a cluster it must be able to D establish a direct SCS path to all other nodes in the cluster, if itH does not it will hang after displaying the 'Attempting to form or join aH VMScluster' message (and yes there may be additional messages after this? as other asynch startup tasks complete such as the MSCP & TMSCP F servers).  Since your node joined the cluster (assuming cluster votingE scheme is correct) then this node has communicated with all the other H nodes.  Analyze all the PEA0 and OPCOM messages and draw a network map. G Then from the errors and messages determine what network components are C in common in *all* of them and investigate those network pieces for-	 problems.-   BrianNFO wrote:a > 2 > >Have you installed the VAXDRIV03_062 patch kit?J > >Are there any errors on the network card in this system?  I'd wager theJ > >network  will be the source of the problem.  $ ANA/SYS - SHOW LAN/COUNT > >and look for errors.HI > >The CI does not appear to play any role in this since PEA0 is the LAVCL% > >driver for the network interfaces.m > >g > O > Indeed this is correct.  The PEDRIVER I see is used for cluster communicationRQ > over the LAN.  (I should've realized this.)  So, now I'm wondering if I have my-N > cluster mis-configured.  I have a mixed-interconnect cluster with one singleM > satellite system, yet the NISCS_LOAD_PEA0 param is set to 1 on each system.nO > I'm trying to determine that just by loading this driver, the system will use$O > this for scs as opposed to he CI?  Is there any way to control this bahavior?-O > I noticed that cluster_config placed an "interconnect" entry in modparams and=L > all of my CI nodes say INTERCONNECT="NICI" so my assumption is this is the
 > control. > 8 > Clearly it's using the CI for the traffic to my HSJ's. >  > BrianL   -- dD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:12:30 -0000x* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>+ Subject: Re: One For the CI Cluster Expertsi+ Message-ID: <997s17$t08@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>a  c "BrianNFO" <briannfo@aol.com> wrote in message news:20010319161323.24295.00002773@ng-fc1.aol.com...-  O > Indeed this is correct.  The PEDRIVER I see is used for cluster communication Q > over the LAN.  (I should've realized this.)  So, now I'm wondering if I have mya > cluster mis-configured.   N My bet for an intermittent fault would be a network problem. Difficult to helpM remotely but I would start with drawing out a map of the topology and dumping b the counters (freom LANCP/SDA SHOW LAN). There is a useful appendix on troubleshooting PE problems" in the back of the cluster manual.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:07:06 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Educational Program* Message-ID: <3AB7721A.BCDEB31C@uk.sun.com>   Christof Brass wrote:  > $ > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > >3G > > That's a reasonable idea, but it does destroy the Alpha performance0N > > advantage to a large degree. If you stack up a Java program on VMS againstI > > a natively compiled program of similar quality on another platform of M > > similar computing power, the Java program will lose. Porting the natively . > > compiled program will give better results. > = > The trick is to use native Java. There is a simple but very B > efficient way to do that without breaking the rules of SUNs JavaB > game. This will offer the by far fastest Java implementation and6 > bundled with the power of Alpha drive the other Java > implementations to death.  > # > Isn't that a real killer app? :-): >   7 But before that you need a native java compiler and youf7 still need a Java environment since you have to be able36 to provide the same facilites that are offered in the / standard Java classes shipped with JDK 1.2/1.3.u  2 The really weird thing about your idea is that you0 are happy to trash COE but are entirely happy to4 propose porting an environment almost as complicated3 as the COE API's to OpenVMS. Not only that but Javat6 was developed by those UNIX people who in your opinion- couldn't develop an API to save their lives. D   Regards  Andrew Harrison9 Enterprise IT Architect:   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 08:35:35 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)n= Subject: Re: Perceptics LaserStar12 3.3 distro tape (tk50)... 3 Message-ID: <Oo0l6OfPpZTF@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  L In article <3AB683ED.3EED602D@clark.net>, Ben Sego <bsego@clark.net> writes:I > ...does anyone out there have this?  Before you ask the obvious, let meh! > go through some of the answers.m >iE > LaserStar and LaserWare are software packages which implement ODS-2mC > filesystems on optical media for jukeboxes and standalone drives,n > respectively.e  ; I do not know if this may help, but you may want to contact(   http://www.usdesign.com/  9 And see if the Optical SuperStore will handle your disks.   N You may need to pay an upgrade fee to get to a more current supported version.  E As tape distributions are getting rare, you may need to find a way toW- make your own tape from a CDROM distribution.N  F I have no affiliation with the above company except as a user of their	 products.e   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:55:05 -0500t  From: Ben Sego <bsego@clark.net>= Subject: Re: Perceptics LaserStar12 3.3 distro tape (tk50)...-) Message-ID: <3AB77D58.3215A83E@clark.net>M   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:i  N > In article <3AB683ED.3EED602D@clark.net>, Ben Sego <bsego@clark.net> writes:K > > ...does anyone out there have this?  Before you ask the obvious, let me # > > go through some of the answers.r > >eG > > LaserStar and LaserWare are software packages which implement ODS-2oE > > filesystems on optical media for jukeboxes and standalone drives,  > > respectively.a >f= > I do not know if this may help, but you may want to contactl >c > http://www.usdesign.com/ > ; > And see if the Optical SuperStore will handle your disks.  >rP > You may need to pay an upgrade fee to get to a more current supported version. >s  O Thanks for the link.  I'll give it a look, but since the VAX I need this for isuL being de-installed and de-commissioned, the upgrade cost may be prohibitive.   >uG > As tape distributions are getting rare, you may need to find a way to2/ > make your own tape from a CDROM distribution.7  E No problem; we can do that.  Also we can work directly with the CDROMAQ distributions; It's just that Perceptics told me they never distributed on CDROM.'   >e >oH > I have no affiliation with the above company except as a user of their > products.h >I > -Johnn > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only.   Thanks,a   Ben Sego Method Innovation Corporation  bsego@methodin.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:19:33 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions1 Message-ID: <9yKt6.160$eE2.9055@news.cpqcorp.net>e  X In article <3AB6C871.D9DEDB24@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:7 :Why can't we have a pure VMS version and UNIX-version?s  E   Your question is sufficiently terse as to be exceedingly difficult s%   to answer.  In other words, "huh?".e  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:02:40 GMTe+ From: srini <r.srinivasan@worldnet.att.net>s% Subject: RETAIN=ERROR on print queuese0 Message-ID: <3AB8D01C.6643CC19@worldnet.att.net>   folks,  F I have a problem with a printer that doesnt want to complete the printG jobs. UCX$telnetsym reports that the network partner exited. While i am-H troubleshooting it, I set the queues to RETAIN=ERROR. The jobs do remain
 in the queue.n  F Is there a way i can get the jobs to be restarted? In other words doesC the queue manager automatically restart the aborted print jobs? How E often does it try and when does it give up. (I guess I am looking forf' the appropriate configuration methods).j  % Any info would be deeply appreciated,M   regards5   srini0   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:24:54 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: RETAIN=ERROR on print queuesP1 Message-ID: <aDKt6.161$eE2.9055@news.cpqcorp.net>=  ^ In article <3AB8D01C.6643CC19@worldnet.att.net>, srini <r.srinivasan@worldnet.att.net> writes:P :Is there a way i can get the [retained queue entry -srh] jobs to be restarted?   G   Yes, but any such restart requires some form of manual intervention,  F   as the queue manager does not implicitly know which of these entriesE   that have been retained-on-error should be restarted, which should uF   continue to be retained, and which entries should simply be deleted.  <   Here is a DCL procedure that will delete retained entries:  , $  IF p1.EQS."" THEN INQUIRE p1 "Queue name" $  TEMP = F$GETQUI("")	 $  QLOOP:e6 $    QNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE","QUEUE_NAME",p1)  $    IF QNAME .EQS. "" THEN EXIT $    WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""& $    WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "QUEUE: ", QNAME $    JLOOP:wD $      RETAINED = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_RETAINED",,"ALL_JOBS")+ $      IF RETAINED .EQS. "" THEN GOTO QLOOPTP $      Entry = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","ENTRY_NUMBER",,"FREEZE_CONTEXT,ALL_JOBS")C $      WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "    Entry: ''Entry' Retained: ''RETAINED'"e7 $      IF RETAINED.EQS."TRUE" THEN DELETE/ENTRY='Entry'v $    GOTO JLOOPh      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:57:53 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>n) Subject: Re: RETAIN=ERROR on print queues 4 Message-ID: <q6Lt6.160367$Z2.2004755@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  8 "srini" <r.srinivasan@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message* news:3AB8D01C.6643CC19@worldnet.att.net... > folks, >t >...C > Is there a way i can get the jobs to be restarted? In other wordsr doesE > the queue manager automatically restart the aborted print jobs? How C > often does it try and when does it give up. (I guess I am looking  fore) > the appropriate configuration methods).- >...  < The queue manager does not automatically retry. But a manual  4    $ SET ENTRY entrynumber/REQUEUE=queuename/RELEASE  F should do it (if I remember that syntax correctly, it has been a whileA since I've done it and I lost my test system for the next while).g  D You can hack together a few lines of DCL using F$GETQUI to check forC any retained jobs and re-queue them when you find them. If you needuC help creating the .COM let me know and I can find some example thatg will do it.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:03:28 GMTS1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>r( Subject: Re: RMS Alpha COBOL and RMS-STS2 Message-ID: <3AB771A2.64529ECD@clarityconnect.com>  @ I believe that these were Conner 3100 disks.  See if the docs at7 http://www.computerhope.com/hdd/hdd0070.htm are useful.h   Tim Sneddon wrote: > 3 > Does anyone have the jumper settings for a RZ23L?e >  > Tim. > F > --------------------------------------------------------------------E > "You can download an atmosphere and dial up a groove, but there's ahD > certain magic when three musicians and a dyslexic get together and > play in a room." >    -- BonoF > --------------------------------------------------------------------   -- nD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:29:07 GMT , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>7 Subject: Re: Senior OpenVMS systems manager - SINGAPOREa& Message-ID: <3AB706AE.146B7E9B@gmx.ch>  G Send mail to Olivier Manera <OManera@parityeurosoft.com>, he is *magic*    D.  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:e >  > cc:O > bcc:N > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza > , > Senior OpenVMS systems manager - SINGAPORE > P > I've had permission from the guy who mail this to me [Craig Humphreys] to passR > this on as I can't, unfortunately, take the second interview because my wife hasM > changed her mind [is that grounds for divorce? ;^D ] so if anyone out therer, > would fancy this, get in touch with Craig. > N > By the way, having been there before, Singapore is a terrific environment to
 > work in. >  > Steve Spires > N >   ---------------------- Forwarded by Steve Spires/YellowPages on 19/03/2001& > 02:43 PM --------------------------- > E > Steve Spires <stevespires@compuserve.com> on 19/03/2001 09:18:13 AMn > % > To:        Steve Spires/YellowPagesn > cc:tP > From:      Steve Spires <stevespires@compuserve.com>, 19 March 2001, 9:18 a.m. > , > Senior OpenVMS systems manager - SINGAPORE > 1 > -------------Forwarded Message-----------------N > A > From:     "Craig Humphreys", INTERNET:craig@eurotechnique.co.uku+ > To:  , INTERNET:craig@eurotechnique.co.uko >  > Date:     08/03/01 10:50 > 1 > RE:  Senior OpenVMS systems manager - SINGAPOREn > G > Please pardon the intrusion, I am currently seeking resources for theyM > following Senior OpenVMS systems manager - SINGAPORE - Permanent / SalariedO
 > PositionH > If interested please call me for further info (PS I will not be in the% > office tomorrow - Friday 9th March)  > 9 > *** Family Relocation package for 2 year commitment ***, > F > To support Business Critical Services customers e.g. banks,telecoms,' > including proactive/reactive services1 >  > Essential:B > Min 5 yrs (ideal>10) OpenVMS systems management V6.2 to V7.2-1H1> > * VAX & Alphas from AS1000 thru to GS140 or better GS160/320; > *managing large OpenVMS clusters in business critical envm > *DECnet Phase IV & DECnet/OSI? > *TCP/IP Digital UCXi >  > Desirable: > *Crashdump analysist" > *internals programming/knowledge
 > *X25 SNA > *Digital Unix/Compaq TRU64 > M > ***** PLEASE NOTE WE HAVE NOW MOVED TO LONDON - NEW DETAILS BELOW *********e >  > Kind Regards,e >  > Craig Humphreysu > Managing Directort > H > EuroTechnique Consulting - Specialists in IT Recruitment & ConsultancyE > 61 The London Fruit & Wool Exchange, Old Spitalfields Fruit Market,o" > Brushfield Street, London E1 6EX" > Direct Line: +44 (0)20 7422 0909" > Switchboard: +44 (0)20 7422 0900 > Mobile: +44 (0)7970 212909 > Fax: +44 (0)20 7247 9154" > Email: craig@eurotechnique.co.uk" > Website: www.eurotechnique.co.uk > M > This Email and any attachments should be read only by those persons to whomvJ > they are addressed. The information or views expressed in this Email areK > those of the individual sender and not Euro-Technique (Computer Services) F > Ltd. (EuroTechnique Consulting). EuroTechnique Consulting accepts noK > responsibility for any loss or damage incurred through use of this Email.CM > Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification,iG > distribution and/or publication of this email is strictly prohibited.b > J > ----------------------- Internet Header --------------------------------# > Sender: craig@eurotechnique.co.ukuB > Received: from btclick.com (mta02.btfusion.com [62.172.195.247])O >      by sphmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) with ESMTP id FAA26262;o+ >      Thu, 8 Mar 2001 05:50:33 -0500 (EST)n8 > Received: from WinProxy.anywhere ([213.123.184.24]) byE >           btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with SMTP ida8 >           G9VKS702.1DP; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:50:31 +0000R > Received: from 172.20.1.103 by 172.20.1.202 (WinProxy); Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:52:58 > +0000 5 > From: "Craig Humphreys" <craig@eurotechnique.co.uk>r! > To: <craig@eurotechnique.co.uk>i5 > Subject: Senior OpenVMS systems manager - SINGAPOREk& > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:51:52 -00007 > Message-ID: <001401c0a7bd$c90b4370$670114ac@etws0003>s > MIME-Version: 1.0  > Content-Type: text/plain;o >      charset="iso-8859-1" ! > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitO > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normalr> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) > Importance: Normal: > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 >  > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beN > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenR > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or > use this transmission. > N > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notJ > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisH > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >  > Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:26:49 -0600e+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>sG Subject: RE: VMS-based webservers (was Re: OpenVMS Educational Program)gL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD549D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]    @ > Gread news people! May I drive the conclusion that it would be@ > more efficient to put some money in VMS marketing, better than > in "UNIX crap on VMS" stuff?? > Will it bring more apps to VMS if the people would read aboutH> > available apps (in fact this is only bringing them virtually> > because technically they are there already) than the wishful' > thinking increase anticipated by COE?a= > And what if COE brings a lot of "UNIX crap on VMS" apps but A > nobody will get notice because Compaq will then have decided tor@ > cut down VMS marketing that they don't have to tell the people > about these apps?c  K I don't know how "efficient" it would be, but you certainly could draw that3L conclusion.  I'm afraid nobody at compaq (maybe sue. :) wants to market VMS,L though. (If somebody can disprove this, by the way, then that would be nice. )d   Regards,   Chrisw  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer- Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");w 'd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:35:06 +0000r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>fG Subject: Re: VMS-based webservers (was Re: OpenVMS Educational Program)n8 Message-ID: <9h1fbt84o62ckrda0c93vh6rl86d6naqlu@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:26:49 -0600, Christopher Smithp <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote:    L >I don't know how "efficient" it would be, but you certainly could draw thatM >conclusion.  I'm afraid nobody at compaq (maybe sue. :) wants to market VMS,rM >though. (If somebody can disprove this, by the way, then that would be nice.l  C Well someone in the UK managed to get out an VMS ad in a mainstreameE computer industry publication just last week. Must be about the firstiF time in ten years. And just a few minutes ago I picked up the phone toB be asked if I wished to take part in a Compaq survey of VMS users.- Never happened before that I can ever recall.    >) >n	 >Regards,  >t >Chris >e" >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, ILf >f >/usr/bin/perl -e 'a@ >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >'   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:38:17 -0600a+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>tG Subject: RE: VMS-based webservers (was Re: OpenVMS Educational Program)mR Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF44C88B1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   G'day Chris,  K >>> I'm afraid nobody at compaq (maybe sue. :) wants to market VMS, though.lH (If somebody can disprove this, by the way, then that would be nice. >>>  F You might be interested in new testimonials, whitepapers and marketingI brochures that are now available for new OpenVMS proposals, demo's, shows D etc. There are more available than this, but these are ones that the7 marketing folks have gotten to the web pages to date ..r  
 Reference:0 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/sbsb/  - VAX to Alpha recent additionC http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/verizon/  - AMDOC'so testimonial :-)>< http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/WHITEPAPERS/INDEX.HTML   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] Sent: March 20, 2001 10:27 AMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComgG Subject: RE: VMS-based webservers (was Re: OpenVMS Educational Program)o     > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]    @ > Gread news people! May I drive the conclusion that it would be@ > more efficient to put some money in VMS marketing, better than > in "UNIX crap on VMS" stuff?? > Will it bring more apps to VMS if the people would read abouts> > available apps (in fact this is only bringing them virtually> > because technically they are there already) than the wishful' > thinking increase anticipated by COE? = > And what if COE brings a lot of "UNIX crap on VMS" apps buttA > nobody will get notice because Compaq will then have decided to@@ > cut down VMS marketing that they don't have to tell the people > about these apps?   K I don't know how "efficient" it would be, but you certainly could draw thateL conclusion.  I'm afraid nobody at compaq (maybe sue. :) wants to market VMS,L though. (If somebody can disprove this, by the way, then that would be nice. )i   Regards,   Christ  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developera Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  'r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:45:00 +0000e. From: Peter Jackson <peter.jackson@oracle.com>8 Subject: Re: What databases are still available on vms ?* Message-ID: <3AB75EDC.AA399A7A@oracle.com>   jlsue wrote:   > I believe the following: >i > Oracle (aka Oracle Oracle) > Oracle Rdb (aka DEC Rdb)  , Also Oracle CODASYL DBMS (formerly DEC DBMS)  
 Peter Jacksonn Rdb Supports	 Oracle UKr   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Mar 2001 08:52:09 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg)  Subject: WINE and Emulatione3 Message-ID: <wJHS1J40tOen@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  G    Some notes to clear up some confusion on various emulators and their     suitability to OpenVMS.  F    WINE  - Wine is an Open Source Freeware work in progress to reverseG            engineer the Microsoft Windows runtime environment.  It doesHH            not do any hardware emulation, so is only suitable to be used,            on Intel x86 compatable hardware.  H   WINELIB - This is a part of WINE, it's purpose is to allow source codeE            written for Microsoft Windows to be compiled and linked onoH            a non-Microsoft platform.  It is compiled for the native hostC            operating system.  It does not do any harware emulation.cH            It may be possible to get WINELIB built for OpenVMS, but I am/            not aware of anyone who has done so.      WINE is a work in progress.r  I   BOCHS   - This is an Open Source SHAREWARE x86 emulator.  AFAIK it doespL             not do any operating system or supply any other programming API.E 	    It may be possible to port it to OpenVMS.  The SHAREWARE licenseoC             places restrictions on distributing the resulting port.     K   Emulating Windows programs on timesharing systems in the past have failed M   mainly because of the tendencies of the software to put in "busy waits" andtJ   timing loops.  These tend to degrade performance of the emulators to the   point of not being usable.  L   File and network sharing with the host system was also a major impediment.  I   The early emulators usually could only handle one major revision behindoN   the currently shipping operating system, and this also severly limited their   functionality.   -Johne wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:59:32 -0700,+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>l Subject: Re: WINE and Emulation ( Message-ID: <3AB77E64.7E0BEBF7@mmaz.com>  N Before anyone gets too excited about running x86 emulators on VMS, this is notO new.  SoftPC, a commercial emulator, has been available for VMS for a long time Q and it is painfully slow consuming all available CPU cycles available (at my timeaN of testing, it was on a VAX 4000/100 with VMS 5.5-2 which is a 24 VUP system).  L I must have missed what prompted this message, but I'm guessing that someoneQ wanted to run MS Office products on a VMS system.  Wouldn't it make more sense toeO expend energies migrating something like StarOffice to run native on VMS rathertP than attempting to emulate a X86 in turn to run Windows (which is flakey) to run Office (which is a pig)?   Just my two cents...   BarryE   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:E  I >    Some notes to clear up some confusion on various emulators and theirQ >    suitability to OpenVMS. >EH >    WINE  - Wine is an Open Source Freeware work in progress to reverseI >            engineer the Microsoft Windows runtime environment.  It doesMJ >            not do any hardware emulation, so is only suitable to be used. >            on Intel x86 compatable hardware. >"J >   WINELIB - This is a part of WINE, it's purpose is to allow source codeG >            written for Microsoft Windows to be compiled and linked ondJ >            a non-Microsoft platform.  It is compiled for the native hostE >            operating system.  It does not do any harware emulation. J >            It may be possible to get WINELIB built for OpenVMS, but I am1 >            not aware of anyone who has done so.  >  >   WINE is a work in progress.r >aK >   BOCHS   - This is an Open Source SHAREWARE x86 emulator.  AFAIK it doeseN >             not do any operating system or supply any other programming API.N >             It may be possible to port it to OpenVMS.  The SHAREWARE licenseE >             places restrictions on distributing the resulting port.  >eM >   Emulating Windows programs on timesharing systems in the past have failedsO >   mainly because of the tendencies of the software to put in "busy waits" andeL >   timing loops.  These tend to degrade performance of the emulators to the >   point of not being usable. >lN >   File and network sharing with the host system was also a major impediment. >mK >   The early emulators usually could only handle one major revision behind P >   the currently shipping operating system, and this also severly limited their >   functionality. >f > -Johne > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Onlym   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOa  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:03:52 -0600c, From: "Tony Scandora" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov> Subject: Re: WINE and Emulationc+ Message-ID: <9982f1$d18$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>r  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message" news:3AB77E64.7E0BEBF7@mmaz.com... > ... F > I must have missed what prompted this message, but I'm guessing that someone J > wanted to run MS Office products on a VMS system.  Wouldn't it make more sense toJ > expend energies migrating something like StarOffice to run native on VMS ratherK > than attempting to emulate a X86 in turn to run Windows (which is flakey)  to run > Office (which is a pig)?  K That would certainly make sense to me.  Considering the influence Linux andmI its friends such as GNOME have had on commercial UNIX vendors, a de-facto	D standard desktop environment is developing for non-Windows desktops.J Anything VMS can do to join in would help its market acceptance, as addingI an increasingly popular user environment does not take anything away fromnD what we know as VMS.  DECwrite, WPS, and MASS-11 are not going to beK revived.  I run Office and a fine X Windows product that handles DECwindowsaL well on a real PC worth <$1000, monitor excluded.  That gives me both Office* and VMS in their own natural environments.  C I cannot imagine significant demand for Office on Windows on an X68eL emulator.  On the other hand, .doc and .xls files are necessary.  StarOfficeH might be a reasonable way for Linux users to handle them without runningK Microsoft products.  If it gets cleaned up and becomes popular in the LinuxdE and commercial UNIX community, it could add significant value to VMS.a  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541  scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:15:40 GMTs, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>  Subject: [DCL] minute of the day& Message-ID: <3AB72DB6.3B9336E5@gmx.ch>   $!+  $! ED2_UTIL.COM< $!N $! This procedure may (safely?) replace your favourite call to the EDT editor.' $! It provides the following additions:e $!F $! 1. files list editing session, with wildcards. example: $ ed2 *.com7 $! 2. ^Y interrupt handling (continue, spawn DCL, exit)FI $! 3. journalling files management. If it finds a .JOU lurking around, itR+ $!    asks you what you want to do with it.R $!
 $! <input>, $! file name specification or wild card list $! $! <output>o $! modified file $! $! <side effects> 
 $! none knowno $!N $! This procedure is nothingware. Send mail to the author for new features :-) $! Revision historyS $!( $! Version Date        Author     actionP $! ------- ----------- ---------- ----------------------------------------------P $! V1.0-0         1984 DTL        posted in the DEC Software Tools ClearinghouseP $! V2.0-0  21-feb-2001 D. Morandi rewritten      (Didier.Morandi@Pachacamac.com) $!-, $ on warning then exit $ esc[0,8] = 271 $ set control=(T,Y) < $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "_File(s) (wild cards allowed)" $ if p1 .eqs. "" then exit $ file = p1G $ say = "write sys$output"$ $ if f$locate(".",p1) .eq. f$len(p1) $ then $    say "Invalid syntax: ",p1	 $    exitS $ endifP $ name = f$element(0,".",p1)0 $ if f$locate("*",name) .eq. f$len(name) .and. -@      f$locate("%",name) .eq. f$len(name)  then goto NO_WILDCARDS, $ files_list = "sys$scratch:files_list.temp"P $ dire_/col=1/notrail/nohead/out='files_list' 'p1'.     !the "." is mandatory!!! $ close/nolog ch $ open/read   ch 'files_list'S $LOOP: $ read/end=EOF ch file $ gosub DO_EDITT $ goto LOOPi $! $EOF:c $ close/nolog chA $ if f$search("''files_list'") .nes. "" then dele_ 'files_list';*L $ exit $! $NO_WILDCARDS: $ gosub DO_EDIT(
 $ goto EOF $!	 $DO_EDIT:4
 $ set noon+ $ journal = f$parse(file,,,"name") + ".jou"a $ if f$search(journal) .nes. "": $ then $    recover = "" $ $    jnl_dat = f$file(journal,"CDT")# $    fil_dat = "[file not created]"wA $    if f$search(file) .nes. "" then fil_dat = f$file(file,"CDT")h $    say "" F $    say "      WARNING A journal file for your EDT session was found" $    say ""(- $    say "      The file you edit is : ",filet0 $    say "      JOU creation date is : ",jnl_dat $    if f$search(file) .eqs. ""s	 $    then  $       say ""L $       say "   Your file was NOT created during your last editing session!"L $       say "   RECOVER is strongly recommended or you will loose your data" $       say "" $       def_choice = "[YES/no]"-	 $    else 0 $       say "   Your file was created: ",fil_dat $       def_choice = "[yes/NO]"m
 $    endif1 $    say "      The current date/time: ",f$time()9 $    say ""i $    inq choice -2A   "Do you want to recover this journalling session ''def_choice'"WM $    if choice .eqs. "" .and. def_choice .eqs. "[YES/no]" then choice = "YES"gL $    if choice .eqs. "" .and. def_choice .eqs. "[yes/NO]" then choice = "NO". $    if f$extract(0,1,choice) .eqs. "Y" .or. -?         f$extract(0,1,choice) .eqs. "y" then recover="/recover" . $    if f$extract(0,1,choice) .eqs. "N" .or. -(         f$extract(0,1,choice) .eqs. "n" 	 $    then & $       if def_choice .eqs. "[YES/no]" $       then $          recover = "/recover"- $          say ""9I $          say "You have decided NOT to recover this journalling session"nO $  say "If you answer NO to the following question, no recover will take place"yC $          inq ok "You do not want to recover? [YES/NO/no default]"l $          say ""2J $          if f$extract(0,1,ok) .eqs. "N" .or. f$extract(0,1,ok) .eqs. "n" $          then. $             recover = "" $          endif
 $       endif 
 $    endif $    if recover .eqs. ""	 $    thene $       save = "N"7 $       inq save "Do you wish to save the file [YES/No]e, $    if f$extract(0,1,save) .eqs. "Y" .or. -5         f$extract(0,1,save) .eqs. "y" then save = "Y"a0 $    if save .eqs. "N" then dele_/log 'journal'.
 $    endif $ endif  $ on warning then exit
 $ cde = ""5 $ if f$search("sys$login:edtini.edt") .nes. "" then -e*      cde = "/command=sys$login:edtini.edt"! $ prc_name = f$getjpi(0,"prcnam").O $ set proc/name="''f$extract(0,15,f$parse(file,,,""name""))'"           !for ^T:" $ on control_Y then gosub ASK_USER# $ assign/user sys$command sys$inputV  $ edit_/edt'recover''cde' 'file' $ set proc/name="''prc_name'"g $ set control=YB $ return $!
 $ASK_USER: $ ty/pa nl:c $HUH:. $ say esc,"[m"A $ inq action "Do you want to Spawn DCL, Continue or Exit [S/C/E]"." $ action = f$edit(action,"upcase")) $ if action .eqs. "S" then goto SPAWN_DCLo $ if action .eqs. "C"e $ then   $    say "",P $  say "Going back to the ",esc,"[1mnext file ",esc,"[mof your editing session." $    say ""u+ $    inq dummy "Press <RETURN> to continue"s $    returng $ endifvN $ if action .eqs. "E" then exit                         !journal file is saved
 $ goto HUH $! $SPAWN_DCL:C $ say "" $ say "Spawning DCL."l $ say -IK "Type LOGOUT to go back to the ",esc,"[1mnext file ",esc,"[mof your editinga	 session."t $ say ""( $ inq dummy "Press <RETURN> to continue"# $ assign/user sys$command sys$inputc $ spawn' $ return    	 Opzatelps  D.  L PS: I wrote this procedure in 1982 at Dassault Aircrafts after having lost aN three hours FORTRAN source editing session because the system crashed a FridayL evening (Murphy's law) and I didn't remember it on the Monday morning when IA went on with my session. I EDITed my source and lost the .JOU :-('   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:20:45 -0500-2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)$ Subject: Re: [DCL] minute of the dayL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2003011020460001@user-2ive7go.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3AB72DB6.3B9336E5@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi6 <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote:     > Opzatelps- > D. > N > PS: I wrote this procedure in 1982 at Dassault Aircrafts after having lost aP > three hours FORTRAN source editing session because the system crashed a FridayN > evening (Murphy's law) and I didn't remember it on the Monday morning when IC > went on with my session. I EDITed my source and lost the .JOU :-(m  H Nice procedure.  I'll study it later.  But wouldn't it have been simpler% to just work through the weekend? :-)i   -- i Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:47:21 -0500 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>t$ Subject: Re: [DCL] minute of the day+ Message-ID: <3AB77B89.3594AFBA@hsc.vcu.edu>l   I remember on a pdp-11, losing a whole years worth of FORTRAN code...  Right in front of my micromanaging women's libber boss...  ~ (Now, there are people who are reasonable, and those who are UNreasonable..)  I acted normal, went home, then sneaked back and\ edited all the compiler listings into source...  whew... and they never found out, either...  , If it happens to you once, you REMEMBER!!!!!   Jim.   Robert Deininger wrote:, > 7 > In article <3AB72DB6.3B9336E5@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandia  > <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote: > 
 > > Opzatelpsy > > D. > >nP > > PS: I wrote this procedure in 1982 at Dassault Aircrafts after having lost aR > > three hours FORTRAN source editing session because the system crashed a FridayP > > evening (Murphy's law) and I didn't remember it on the Monday morning when IE > > went on with my session. I EDITed my source and lost the .JOU :-(t > J > Nice procedure.  I'll study it later.  But wouldn't it have been simpler' > to just work through the weekend? :-)e >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:21:52 GMTp, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>5 Subject: [Q] PCSI error with FILE FRED SOURCE FOOBAR;s& Message-ID: <3AB78385.6041DF7C@gmx.ch>  P %PCSI-E-PDFERR, error in processing product description file $1$DGA1:[MORANDI.IS LK.KIT]ISLK.PCSI$DESC;4mK   286   file [islk_user.islk_op]LOGIN.COM  source pcsi$source:OP_LOGIN.COM;i$ %PCSI-E-PDFIVS, invalid value syntaxL   291   file [islk_user.islk_rma]LOGIN.COM source pcsi$source:RMA_LOGIN.COM;$ %PCSI-E-PDFIVS, invalid value syntax= %PCSI-E-PROCTERM, processing terminated due to previous erroro" %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedM %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition?  M I don't see why there is an error. I removed the "pcsi$source:" and I get thep same error message.n   Thanks,    D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:10:22 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)9 Subject: Re: [Q] PCSI error with FILE FRED SOURCE FOOBAR;l1 Message-ID: <i2Nt6.169$eE2.9460@news.cpqcorp.net>t  U In article <3AB78385.6041DF7C@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes: Q >%PCSI-E-PDFERR, error in processing product description file $1$DGA1:[MORANDI.ISo >LK.KIT]ISLK.PCSI$DESC;4L >  286   file [islk_user.islk_op]LOGIN.COM  source pcsi$source:OP_LOGIN.COM;% >%PCSI-E-PDFIVS, invalid value syntax M >  291   file [islk_user.islk_rma]LOGIN.COM source pcsi$source:RMA_LOGIN.COM;s% >%PCSI-E-PDFIVS, invalid value syntax > >%PCSI-E-PROCTERM, processing terminated due to previous error# >%PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed-N >%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition  5 I dont' think PCSI$SOURCE is defined in this context.lD Assuming that the source files are in the same directory as the file* being installed, the following might work:  J file [islk_user.islk_op]LOGIN.COM  source [islk_user.islk_op]OP_LOGIN.COM;L file [islk_user.islk_rma]LOGIN.COM source [islk_user.islk_rma]RMA_LOGIN.COM;  D If the source files are in other directories, specifiy the directory accordingly.  F For PRODUCT PACKAGE, the source files must have the relative directoryI specified within the /SOURCE you are using.  I.e., the PACKAGE would lookn for:  /     PCSI$SOURCE:[islk_user.islk_op]OP_LOGIN.COMM1     PCSI$SOURCE:[islk_user.islk_rma]RMA_LOGIN.COMr  - You don't specify PCSI$SOURCE; it is assumed.  -- sK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAuH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.158 ************************