1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 22 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 162       Contents:2 Re: A new question regarding COE and/or Unix & VMS2 Re: A new question regarding COE and/or Unix & VMS Re: BASIC side effect % Re: Can this be done through lexicals % Re: Can this be done through lexicals  Re: changing IPs on Multinet RE: changing IPs on Multinet Re: changing IPs on Multinet Re: COE implementation details Re: COE implementation details Re: COE implementation details) Communication to local PC ports from VMS.  Dec Printer through TCP/IP Re: Dec Printer through TCP/IP Re: Dec Printer through TCP/IP1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 0 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ? Not at all !0 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ? Not at all !@ Dumb and dumber  (was RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? )9 Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS         EducationalProP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgram< RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EdO Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Educati  onalProgram) O Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Educati  onalProgram) B re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducatioM RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) M RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) PrP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) ProP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Pro9 Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library. 9 Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library. 9 Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library. 9 Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library. 9 Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library.  Re: NAS/SAN " Re: One For the CI Cluster Experts# Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions  Re: Support of old systems Re: Support of old systems Re: Support of old systems Re: Support of old systems Re: Support of old systems Re: Support of old systems Re: Support of old systems. Re: the Northeast Digital Systems Ebay Follies These Unix/Vms/whatever threads # RE: These Unix/Vms/whatever threads ' Re: Uaf Show/rights status bug (v7.2-1) " unable to ftp for certain user a/c" unable to ftp for certain user a/c" unable to ftp for certain user a/c& Re: unable to ftp for certain user a/c& Re: unable to ftp for certain user a/cP Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EduP Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Edu" VMS ad runs in UK for second week. VMS source listings omittings 0 Re: [change topic] First VMS cluster in Europe ? Re: [DCL] minute of the day " Re: [Q] Need Help on Backup Script" Re: [Q] Need Help on Backup Script" Re: [Q] Need Help on Backup Script  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:28:36 -0000 , From: "Richard Maher" <Tier3@btinternet.com>; Subject: Re: A new question regarding COE and/or Unix & VMS 1 Message-ID: <99cb8u$sg4$1@uranium.btinternet.com>    Hi,   @ Does anyone know if there are any transaction components to COE?   TP Managers/Monitors standards?    Regards Richard Maher   < Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message% news:99b5ei$1fu$5@info.cs.uofs.edu... ? > Is there any reason why something akin to Eunice could not be B > used to meet the requirements of COE while leaving VMS untouchedB > underneath??  Was there anything important that was missing fromB > Eunice?? (I only used it a few times and even that was ages ago,? > although I do still have a tape labeled Eunice hanging in the  > tape locker!!) > A > The biggest shortcoming I remember was speed, but I would think ? > that with the speed of porcessors today, that would not be as @ > serious a shortcoming. (It wasn't really that slow compared to- > VMS, given the hardware it was running on.)  > * > Hmmm. Could you do a fork under Eunice?? >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:54:29 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: A new question regarding COE and/or Unix & VMS 3 Message-ID: <9JoDKEik8Oab@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <99b5ei$1fu$5@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: ? > Is there any reason why something akin to Eunice could not be B > used to meet the requirements of COE while leaving VMS untouched > underneath??  H Eunice as I recall it was only a C shell, some logical names the C shellH could use to map /dev entries (I don't even recall an actual /dev tree),D and some libraries that translated C and/or UNIX calls to VMS calls.  G It didn't add any functionality to the VMS kernel, so you couldn't do a  UNIX style fork().  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:16:09 -0800 1 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospam>  Subject: Re: BASIC side effect2 Message-ID: <99dc2d$t26$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  5 I remember sitting in a meeting at DECUS back in 1992 6 shortly after DEC realized that they forgot to rewrite1 the BASIC compiler for Alpha.  The purpose of the / meeting was to get input from users as to which 5 features of the compiler and language DEC could leave 0 out for V1.0 as they were on very fast and tight3 schedule.  When someone asked about the possibility / of adding pointer data types and the ability to 3 derefence like C, the response from the DEC rep was 2 that adding such a feature would introduce lots of4 memory leak errors that BASIC was pretty much immune2 from.  They felt that doing such would violate the spirit of the language.   4 By the way, I've already figured out how to retrieve/ data in BASIC when all I have is a pointer.  It 6 involves calling an external routine where the passing2 mechanism is different from the calling mechanism.  I'll post the code if I find it.  2 You may or may not be aware that in BASIC your can3 perform bitwise logial operations on integers.  One 2 application I've worked with, TOLAS, would turn on7 and off various bits in an integer to designate various 2 status flags for a record.  For example they might code: +     IF (REC_STATUS AND BIT_2)   !If shipped 0       THEN CALL RESHIP          !Then ship again
     END IF2 where REC_STATUS and BIT_2 are both integers.  You5 can also use the OR, NOT, XOR, EQV, and IMP operators  on integers.  > cstranslations <cstranslations@email.msn.com> wrote in message# news:OdzBFAjsAHA.354@cpmsnbbsa07...  > > > "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospam> wrote in message. > news:99aoou$e54$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...4 > > I've got more years with DEC Basic, Vax Basic, &2 > > Basic Plus II than I can remember.  Personally6 > > I don't see anything unusual with the code, except > > that it's in lower case ;-)  > J > That does seem to be the case with all of the BASIC code I've ever loked at > unless I wrote it :-)  >  > > 1 > > Are you referring to the line beginning with:  > >     result =8 > > This has always been valid, even in BP2.  Comparison7 > > operations can be used in an expression. The result 6 > > of a conditional operation is zero if false and -1 > > if true  > H > I know (knew) it would work after a statement with an "attached" IF or > UNLESS. For example  >  > PRINT "TRUE" IF (1 = 1)  > J > though I suspect the compiler would do a bit of optimizing on the above. >  > > Welcome to Basic!! > L > Well - I've been working in *primarily* BASIC shops for almost 10 years atI > this point (longer than I care to remember). Most of the code that I've I > supported (and currently support) was written when I was in the 7th and  8th  > grade :-)  > B > Seen some strange things. Never ran into the below in any of it. > F > If they would add a pointer/derefence mechanism that would be rather useful. " > But then that'll never happen... >  > Joe  >  > > B > > cstranslations <cstranslations@email.msn.com> wrote in message' > > news:etFZm9hsAHA.291@cpmsnbbsa09... E > > > I was working on some code written in BASIC and decided to give  > something  > > a K > > > try (not expecting the compiler to acctually accept it).  Interesting 
 > > enoughG > > > BASIC didn't complain. Below is a small sample where the compiler 
 > > generates L > > > code matching a C style side effect (OpenVMS 7.1-1H2 and 7.2-1, Alpha,	 > > BASIC ( > > > 1.3 and 1.4). I'm still surprised. > > > ) > > > Just thought I'd pass this along...  > > > 	 > > > Joe  > > >  > > > option type = explicit > > >   > > > declare string   SearchStr > > > declare integer  result  > > >  > > > set no prompt  > > > " > > > input "_string: "; SearchStr > > > . > > > result = (seg$(SearchStr, 1, 3) = "ABC") > > > if (result) then, > > >    print "The 1st 3 letters are 'ABC'"
 > > > elseB > > >    print "The string does not start with (upper case) 'ABC'" > > > end if > > > print  > > >    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 12:08:06 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) . Subject: Re: Can this be done through lexicals0 Message-ID: <99cpv6$ht0$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  i In article <985219422.703330@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>, "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@nospam.hotmail.com> writes:   L >I have what may be an easy question, but I cannot find the answer. Any help >always welcome. >  >1. K >If I insert a DAT tape (DDSII/DDSIII) into a drive, is there a function or L >parameter i can read, either directly or via a DCL COM routine, where I can >get the tape capacity?    No, definitely not in DCL.  M >I know I can look on the tape, but I would like to try to generate a routine 9 >that does something like this when you put your tape in: # >"You have just loaded a xxGB tape"   K Again, not possible. This would require a process to query the tape via the F SCSI bus at regular intervals in order to determine whether a tape has been loaded.   >2. M >Can the same be done for a DAT tape drive? This would be to determine if the I >drive was compatible with a tape. EG "Drive capacity is 4GB maximum tape  >capacity is 4GB"  > I >I'm sure there must be a function to read somewhere or some way of doing  >this, but I'm stuck.   I You may write a program to intercat with the SCSI bus. This program could G ask the drive about its capabilities and whether there is a tape loaded E and perhaps what type of a tape it is. But this depends on the drive.   L >The requirement has come from a customer that tried to use a 12GB tape in aI >4GB drive, I would like to put something in place (a warning maybe) that & >will alert him when it happens again.  I You can achieve this only partially. If you put a DDS-4 tape into a DDS-1 I drive the drive will most likely tear it before it gets to know what type  it is.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 23:15:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>. Subject: Re: Can this be done through lexicals- Message-ID: <87y9tx4yxg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@nospam.hotmail.com> writes:  L > If I insert a DAT tape (DDSII/DDSIII) into a drive, is there a function orM > parameter i can read, either directly or via a DCL COM routine, where I can  > get the tape capacity?N > I know I can look on the tape, but I would like to try to generate a routine: > that does something like this when you put your tape in:$ > "You have just loaded a xxGB tape"  B In general, no. Reason is that most of what is needed is in vendorA specific scsi pages. HP and some others are moving to standardise : this, it was mention on comp.arch.storage as few days ago.   > 2.N > Can the same be done for a DAT tape drive? This would be to determine if theJ > drive was compatible with a tape. EG "Drive capacity is 4GB maximum tape > capacity is 4GB"   See above...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 11:53:29 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) % Subject: Re: changing IPs on Multinet 0 Message-ID: <99cp3p$ht0$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  ] In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEOHCDAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes: L >Am running Multinet 3.3 on 6.2 Alpha, and had to change our IPs.  I did the >obvious things  >1.  Edited hosts.local D >2.  ran MULTINET CONFIG/MENU  to change the gateway and DNS entries >3.  did HOST_TABLE COMPILE H >3.  rebooted (couldn't figure out how to shutdown or restart MULTINET ) >  > E >When running MULTINET CHECK  I get a warning that there is a version  >mismatchh on NETWORK_DATABASE >which is probably OK  > M >when I try to telnet to one of our other machines it says trying... with the  >old IP? >  >What have I missed?  / You didn't change the entry in your nameserver.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:00:59 -0800 ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: RE: changing IPs on Multinet 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEPECDAA.tom@kednos.com>   D I run a cacheing name server on Tru64 and that was changed, althoughE following your mail I checked and realized that I had not changed the B hosts.rev file which I missed on my search cause it stores the IPsK in reverse order, so I killed named and restarted it but the same result, IiI also disconnected this name server from my lan, and same result. A searchS4 for the last octet of the old IP in the Multinet dir: turns up nothing.  So where might it be getting ths value?   Toms     > -----Original Message-----< > From: Christoph Gartmann [mailto:gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de]( > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:53 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms' > Subject: Re: changing IPs on MultinetS >  > ? > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEOHCDAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tomr! > Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:pC > >Am running Multinet 3.3 on 6.2 Alpha, and had to change our IPs.o >  I did the > >obvious thingsp > >1.  Edited hosts.localaF > >2.  ran MULTINET CONFIG/MENU  to change the gateway and DNS entries > >3.  did HOST_TABLE COMPILEaJ > >3.  rebooted (couldn't figure out how to shutdown or restart MULTINET ) > >e > >pG > >When running MULTINET CHECK  I get a warning that there is a version   > >mismatchh on NETWORK_DATABASE > >which is probably OK  > >t< > >when I try to telnet to one of our other machines it says > trying... with the
 > >old IP? > >t > >What have I missed? >o1 > You didn't change the entry in your nameserver.V >w
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmannn >SJ > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:19:40 -0700   From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com>% Subject: Re: changing IPs on MultinetP2 Message-ID: <3Qm6OsLLoLfuqFscnfkqmCds1lSx@4ax.com>  B I would have set default to the Multinet dir and re run the config program:    $ SET DEF MULTINETc
  $ @CONFIG    " Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  L >Am running Multinet 3.3 on 6.2 Alpha, and had to change our IPs.  I did the >obvious thingsp >1.  Edited hosts.localnD >2.  ran MULTINET CONFIG/MENU  to change the gateway and DNS entries >3.  did HOST_TABLE COMPILEeH >3.  rebooted (couldn't figure out how to shutdown or restart MULTINET ) >X >eE >When running MULTINET CHECK  I get a warning that there is a versiont >mismatchh on NETWORK_DATABASE >which is probably OKo >VM >when I try to telnet to one of our other machines it says trying... with theV >old IP? >E >What have I missed? >  >Tom   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 11:45:22 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>a' Subject: Re: COE implementation details H Message-ID: <y4snk6axq5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  D > I am going to throw in a request here. VMS has the idea of a 'lostD > file' that lives on, and *may* not be an error. Rare and perverse,E > yes, but not an error in ODS-2. Since COE looks like it is going toEA > give us a file reference count, can the ref count of 2^N-1 meanl) > that we know it's lost, leave it alone?m  * A ref count of 0 surely already does that?  G And a file that isn't entered in any directory (impossible in Unix file 7 systems) is quite valid and different from a lost file.e  M > What they don't say is what happens if you have 'hard links' and delete an nH > entry, or, if you think about it, what happens if you delete an alias.  K If you delete an entry, the reference count is decremented, and the file istL actually deleted (blocks deallocated etc) when the count reaches 0. DeletingM and alias is equivalent to the current SET FILE/REMOVE, i.e., it just removess the directory entry.  I As I understand it, the SET VOLUME changes the system's interpretation of J links/aliases, not the on-disk data structures. An interesting question isK whether the link count is maintained even if the "alias" mode is selected.  J I don't think that is possible in all cases, in fact, and I wonder how it L is handled in the "hard link" mode - one scenario, for instance, is removingJ an alias/a hard link for which the actual owner has changed the protectionG such that the linker no longer is allowed to update the reference count.. because the file is now inaccessible to her...   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:23:44 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o' Subject: Re: COE implementation detailso3 Message-ID: <7oGWfWEKV0L$@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  d In article <aH7u6.163357$Z2.2017743@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:   >The owner may delete any linksi
 > to the file @ > in directories he can access, while hard links in other user's > directories may causehH > the file to be retained; the owner will continue to be charged for its > quota.  ! Ouch.  Just what I was afraid of.u  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 18:25:59 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ' Subject: Re: COE implementation details H Message-ID: <y4g0g5g1g8.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:n   [about hard links and quota]# > Ouch.  Just what I was afraid of.-  N At least it is a clean definition. After the discussion on comp.arch, I cannot see a reasonable alternative.R   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:57:48 +0100r- From: "Olek Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl>52 Subject: Communication to local PC ports from VMS.& Message-ID: <99denm$r0h$1@news.tpi.pl>  L Is possibility communication with local PC computer ports "COM" from VMS ? I1 connecting via terminal program to VMS (from PC).    Olek Kolodziejczyk   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:45:17 +1030 * From: "Frank Maio" <fpmaio@chariot.net.au># Subject: Dec Printer through TCP/IPl, Message-ID: <3ab9d882_6@news.chariot.net.au>  	 Hi there.   I I am currently having a problem setting up my print queue on my Dec Alpha J OpenVMS Server to a HP 4550N printer. Currently I have a printer connectedL to a DecServer but wish to replace this with a direct TCP/IP connection to a hub.  - Can anyone help me to set up the print queue.      begin 666 Frank&Poppy.vcfe= M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"E9%4E-)3TXZ,BXQ#0I..DUA:6\[1G)A;FLF4&]P<'D--= M"D9..D9R86YK)E!O<'!Y#0I%34%)3#M04D5&.TE.5$523D54.F9P;6%I;T!C<= M:&%R:6]T+FYE="YA=0T*4D56.C(P,#$P,S(Q5#(R,34Q-UH-"D5.1#I60T%2  #1 T*- `  end2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:02:09 +0000S  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com' Subject: Re: Dec Printer through TCP/IP H Message-ID: <OFF0A205E6.75A9CE49-ON80256A17.0041FE1A@qedi.quintiles.com>   See question MGMT6 of the FAQ :   9 MGMT6.  How do I connect a PostScript printer via TCP/IP?h  G Using UCX as the TCP/IP stack, it is possible to setup queues using thesE UCX$TELNETSYM in order to print to postscript printers.  This assumesiI however that the printer itself can convert whatever is passed to it intoiH something intelligible.  As an example, if the printer has an IP address@ of 123.456.789.101 and jobs should be passed to port 9100 then :G $ INITIALIZE/QUEUE/ON="123.456.789.101:9100"/PROCESSOR=UCX$TELNETSYM  -                  my_ip_queueiC The port number of 9100 is typical of HP JetDirect cards but may bee( different for other manufacturers cards.E As a better alternative, DCPS Version 1.4 and later support IP queues A using either Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS software or CiscorH Multinet for OpenVMS.  The usage of this type of interface is documented8 in the Release Notes and the DCPS$STARTUP.TEMPLATE file.     Frank Maio wrote :L >>>I am currently having a problem setting up my print queue on my Dec AlphaJ OpenVMS Server to a HP 4550N printer. Currently I have a printer connectedL to a DecServer but wish to replace this with a direct TCP/IP connection to a hub.  0 Can anyone help me to set up the print queue.<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:25:06 +0100R' From: Theo Jakobus <jakobus@iaf.fhg.de> ' Subject: Re: Dec Printer through TCP/IP1* Message-ID: <3AB9FD32.7FDD3362@iaf.fhg.de>   Frank Maio wrote:a >  > Hi there.a > K > I am currently having a problem setting up my print queue on my Dec AlphatL > OpenVMS Server to a HP 4550N printer. Currently I have a printer connectedN > to a DecServer but wish to replace this with a direct TCP/IP connection to a > hub. > / > Can anyone help me to set up the print queue.i > * >                    Name: Frank&Poppy.vcfF >     Part 1.2       Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)% >                Encoding: x-uuencodel    H The queue uses the TELNET print symbiont (TELNETSYM) for sending data to the printer.F You need the TCP/IP address of your printer, first test if the command PING sees the printer." For defining the queue start with:Q http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/tcpip51/6526/6526pro_041.html#telnet_print_chapv     Regards, -- p  ; ***********************************************************g; *                                                         *u; *  Theo Jakobus                                           * ; *  Fraunhofer-Institut fuer Angewandte Festkoerperphysik  * ; *  Tullastr. 72                                           *d; *  D-79108 Freiburg                                       * ; *  Germany                                                * ; *  Phone:   +49-(0)761-5159-325                           *a; *  FAX :    +49-(0)761-5159-200                           *k; *  e-mail:  jakobus@iaf.fhg.de                            *e; *  http://www.iaf.fhg.de                                  *u; *                                                         *t; ***********************************************************e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:51:47 +00002% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>.: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !8 Message-ID: <8lijbtkm9gc49u9797kftnmmt8qclsr7e0@4ax.com>  < On 21 Mar 2001 18:54:00 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  . >In article <87zoef9krh.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,0 > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: >|>  >|> D >|> BTW, the only 'cost' to doing you own DECnet was that you had toB >|> acknoledge that it was the DECnet orotocols, deleloped by DEC. >oC >And yet, no one did free implementation until Linux and Phase IV!!   C There was DECNET and/or ANF-10 support implemented for some non DECm+ OSs as far back as the late 70s as I recalln   >billc   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:49:13 +0000d% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>k: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !8 Message-ID: <8eijbtse8bs25p0sncdm92mrg2tmkbv9p8@4ax.com>  < On 21 Mar 2001 14:52:36 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  . >In article <87pufbb9jx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,0 > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: >|> O >|> Ki Research (sp?) did DECnet IV for nearly everything that opened and shut.C > F >A quick search of the web showed numerous comments that the Spec for D >DECNET Phase IV is publicly available.  I see no mention in any docC >found about previous versions.  Is it possible that DEC was not aslE >generous with previous versions??  There is no doubt that Unix boxese  D I definitely had the specs for DDCMP (Digital-Digital CommunicationsC Protocol or something like that not DDMP - Drum to Disk Map Pages),iA ANF-10 and DECNET Phase I at one point. I'm fairly sure they wereB public.t  H >can talk DECNET, it has been a part of Ultrix since the Ultrix-11 days.I >Given this, if it were in fact freely avaialble, why would it have takengH >more than a decade for the first non-commercial DECNET for unix to show. >up and that still in a very incomplete form?? >e >bill    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 12:37:08 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>i: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !H Message-ID: <y4bsquavbv.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  K IIRC, the M in DDCMP was for "multidrop" (it was a master-slaves protocol).i   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:43:43 +0800r- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>-: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !@ Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010322194237.00a190b0@mail.bigpond.com>  2 At 12:37 PM 22/03/01 +0100, Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:L >IIRC, the M in DDCMP was for "multidrop" (it was a master-slaves protocol). >-
 >         Jan,    From the DDCMP spec...   (                                 ABSTRACT  8                 The Digital Data Communications  Message8                 Protocol  (DDCMP) is a data link control8                 procedure that ensures a  reliable  data8                 communication path between communication8                 devices connected by data links.   DDCMP8                 has  been designed to operate over full-8                 and    half-duplex    synchronous    and8                 asynchronous     channels     in    both8                 point-to-point and multipoint modes.  It  0 (I have a copy of all the DECnet IV specs here.)       Regards, Dave.e -- eI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comtI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmtI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennonb   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:15:24 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> : Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !) Message-ID: <3AB9DECC.44CCC4EF@Omond.net>    Dan Cook wrote:e > D > On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:43:19 +0100, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=! > <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:  > F > >Phase IV replaced Phase III something almost 20 years ago (18 years" > >according to the specs on WWW). > >29 > >What systems do you have that needs DECnet phase III ?i > # > He "needs" it to spread FUD.  :-(P >  > - Dan   = Dan, I think that's a little harsh on Bill.  He does admit to<; being wrong wrt DECnet/proprietariness (not too many people@7 willing to admit to being wrong in Usenet discussions).h  > However, I do think that it does show Bill to be rather naieve@ about VMS's true capabilities.  Begs the question: how many more< of his preconceptions might prove to be without foundation ?  ? I suspect I know the answer will be quite a few (hardlinks etc.  etc.)W  	 Roy OmondU Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:37:05 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !3 Message-ID: <qLF8U1HU+4kP@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  _ In article <99b4q9$1fu$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:- > D > So I learned something else.  I thought Phase IV was more current.C > Does this mean that what is built into Ultrix-11 and Ultrix-32 is C > in fact Phase IV??  What about in things like RSTS??  If it's all A > Phase IV, then I assume it is going to be easier than I thoughte3 > to link different machines together using DECNET.   F I've seen Phase II on TOPS-20, Phase III on VMS, RSX-11M, and TOPS-20,C and Phase IV on more OS than I care to count.  IIRC RSTS was one of0/ them although I didn't see that one first hand.u  G The MIPS ULTIRX I had was certianly supporting Phase IV (which came outCA long before DEC tried on MIPS), but it was not built in, it was ah) layered product just like all the others.i  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:39:18 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !3 Message-ID: <dYXo8olCEq2v@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  ` In article <8lijbtkm9gc49u9797kftnmmt8qclsr7e0@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > E > There was DECNET and/or ANF-10 support implemented for some non DEC - > OSs as far back as the late 70s as I recall  >   G Let us not forget that other stack (IP) grew up on systems like TOPS-10s& long before Berkley ported it to UNIX.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationh= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupnE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingh   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 23:29:20 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !- Message-ID: <87lmpx4yb3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  ? If anyone wants the PhIV specs, and can't find them, I can mail- a copy.-   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.2@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:03:58 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>|: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !8 Message-ID: <ku7kbt8v9q7fghmjjvoe49e83kau4a76s5@4ax.com>  F On 22 Mar 2001 08:39:18 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  a >In article <8lijbtkm9gc49u9797kftnmmt8qclsr7e0@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:f >> tF >> There was DECNET and/or ANF-10 support implemented for some non DEC. >> OSs as far back as the late 70s as I recall >> : > H >Let us not forget that other stack (IP) grew up on systems like TOPS-10' >long before Berkley ported it to UNIX.o  D BBN Tenex supported the Arpanet from day 1 around 1969. Bolt Beranek@ and Newman (sp) were contracted to produce an Arpanet OS for theE PDP-10.  For reasons best known to themselves DEC removed the ArpanetTE JSYS calls from TOPS-20 when first shipped before re-adding them back_B again a couple of years later in TOPS-20 Arpanet. Back in the days? when most of the systems in Arpanet hosts.txt were DEC machinesWB running either Tenex, TOPS-10, TOPS-20 or ITS. In early VMS docs IC recall a reference to the Arpanet which stated "VAX systems are noteE normally conected to the Arpanet". A self-fulfilling prophecy if evera there was one. Cue TGV etc..  ? The gateway between JANET (X25) in the UK and the Arpanet was a<E TOPS-20 host as late as the mid 80s and, of course, Simtel-20 was ther5 main US ftp archive until about 1992 or so wasn't it?a   >aG >---------------------------------------------------------------------- @ >Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation> >NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupF >                                | please remove ".aspm" when replying   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:05:20 GMTt5 From: Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org> : Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !/ Message-ID: <3AB9EA80.55B3CB65@childrenshc.org>h   Paul Repacholi wrote:l > A > If anyone wants the PhIV specs, and can't find them, I can mail 	 > a copy.t >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.EB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.    C I created a set of html-ized documents for Phase IV. I sent them toe3 Hoff, and will probably be on the next freeware CD.f   -- l Lyndon F. Bartelse VMS Systems Administrator  Childrens Hospitals and Clinicsn lyndon.bartels#childrenshc.org 651-855-2504 (work)e 651-855-2570 (fax)   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 11:52:32 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>o9 Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ? Not at all !eH Message-ID: <y4pufaaxe7.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:r  D > > It's probably more the case that nobody publishes it because theI > > documentation and standards are long and go down to great detail.  IP7I > > documentation on the other hand is perhaps not quite so detailed.....e8 > Which is why its soooooo easy to write to the FTP RFP.  J And why there were conferences with interoperability marathons to sort out those kinds of things...   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:20:24 -0800s! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com-9 Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ? Not at all !hD Message-ID: <OF400442BF.44CC50DD-ON88256A17.0064AB73@foundation.com>  D DDCMP = Dec's Dodgy Communications Protocol. In my experience, aptly named..... ;-)   Shanev          9 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> on 03/22/2001 01:49:13 AM2   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:o  : Subject:  Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ? Not at all !    < On 21 Mar 2001 14:52:36 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  . >In article <87pufbb9jx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,0 > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: >|> I >|> Ki Research (sp?) did DECnet IV for nearly everything that opened andn shut.A >rE >A quick search of the web showed numerous comments that the Spec for D >DECNET Phase IV is publicly available.  I see no mention in any docC >found about previous versions.  Is it possible that DEC was not as:E >generous with previous versions??  There is no doubt that Unix boxese  D I definitely had the specs for DDCMP (Digital-Digital CommunicationsC Protocol or something like that not DDMP - Drum to Disk Map Pages), A ANF-10 and DECNET Phase I at one point. I'm fairly sure they wereh public.   H >can talk DECNET, it has been a part of Ultrix since the Ultrix-11 days.I >Given this, if it were in fact freely avaialble, why would it have taken H >more than a decade for the first non-commercial DECNET for unix to show. >up and that still in a very incomplete form?? >r >billn   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:39:34 -0500C! From: Dan Allen <dallen@nist.gov>nI Subject: Dumb and dumber  (was RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? )0: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAIECFDGAA.dallen@nist.gov>  [  Come on guys, give this a rest. You can always find "a" job that is easier in your command,>  set/OS of choice. Heh Bill, what's the Unix equivalent of :-)  > 	$ del/since="01-Jan-1971 00:00:00.00"/backup sys$login:*.*;*   O > > |> >And a 50-100 line "small (recursive) command procedure" is simpler thanD > > |> >: > > |> >     "find . -type f -exec rm -f {} \; ; rm -rf *" > > |> > > > |> >in what way??G > > F > > Maybe you didn't, but the general gist of the thread here has beenG > > that everything is sipler on VMS as compared to Unix.  I can removeoJ > > the tree with two commands.  No 50-100 line shell script is necessary. > >  > > bill > >  > > --N > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesH > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton   |B > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:49:59 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)dB Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <hnetLCtXYjMb@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  X In article <3AB940D9.49D8D588@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > 8 > Please Bob, stop it. I already insulted Bill enough. I> > personally think he is not the type of person who is able to; > change his mind because of reason. This isn't meant as an4	 > insult!r  H I really didn't quite mean that to come across in an insulting tone, but, I realize it could be interpretted that way.  H I think we've opened Bill's eyes to a few possibilities after a long andH much overblown thread.  I try not to get trapped into these things but ID do have an intollerance for letting technically erroneous statements% masquerade as differences of opinion.   G I know from previous threads that Bill and I will never see eye to eye. + As long as we're on solid ground that's OK.   G As for his opinions on UNIX, I, too some times find UNIX usefull.  When G I got my first 486 the first thing I did was put Linux on it.  I always B figured I'd have a UNIX system at home someday and just recently I> helped my son put Linux on his Mac (I'll keep Mac OS on mine).  D But I'll keep pushing for the right tool for the job, and on the job that's often VMS.d  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation,= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupgE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying6   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 12:33:23 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS         EducationalPro H Message-ID: <y4hf0mavi4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:   8 > This isn't true. I always insist in technical analysis@ > and so far nobody was able to show technically where UNIX crap > and its UNIX crap apps excel.5? > To conclude this: there isn't any of my points which has been0 > proven wrong.   	 Bullshit.   D To a standard-conforming Fortran(77,90,95,...), Ada, C, C++, Pascal,G ... program, it is for all practical purposes indistinguishable whether G they run on VMS, OS/390, any Unix variant, any Win32 variant. If you're*F using a widely-ported GUI library such a Qt, Interacter or Citrix, youI can have an application that interacts with the user in a natural way forjH the particular platform and never know the difference. At the same time,E it is possible to mis-use the langauge(s) and produce buggy software,b but then, what's new?u  H There is a point that for some types of applications, notably those withJ real-time or multi-user requirements, can be more or less easy and more orH less safe to implement on one or the other system, but that has not been your argument. C  L But there can be no argument that it is beneficial for VMS to make availableG to it boatloads of software - you get to decide in each individual caseeN whether you need and want it, and whether you are satisfied with its quality -L that weren't previously available just because of minor variations in syntaxN only (in many cases), performance tuning, or slightly different semantics (theI basis, apparently, of much of the current COE work). You would rather re-v1 invent the wheel than re-use the work of others? r   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:12:46 +0100n. From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramn- Message-ID: <ojju6.119$98.5875@news.siol.net>   > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:99akc8$2s5g$2@info.cs.uofs.edu...4 > In article <5qq4Oo39s8ztBrGLJE=jNAHzuWQz@4ax.com>,< >  David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com> writes: > |>F > |> I never said it was easier nor simpler.  It's just not diffucult. > |> > |> > |> >H > |> >And a 50-100 line "small (recursive) command procedure" is simpler than > |> >8 > |> >     "find . -type f -exec rm -f {} \; ; rm -rf *" > |> > > |> >in what way??s >eD > Maybe you didn't, but the general gist of the thread here has beenE > that everything is sipler on VMS as compared to Unix.  I can remove H > the tree with two commands.  No 50-100 line shell script is necessary. >  > bill   Try   $ $ backup/delete/nolog [...]*.*;* nl:   best Gorazd-     --4 ----------------------------------------------------
 Gorazd Kikeljh OpenVMS system support Aster d.o.o. e-mail: gorazd.kikelj@aster.si www:  www.aster.si   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:30:30 -0500o7 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com>wY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalPrograma2 Message-ID: <CP65OuaJxcltVirlRJKYUahnK6cK@4ax.com>  @ Absolutely!  Look at the directory structure of the system disk.: There is also a command to create the equivalent of a UnixC link, but I don't remember what it is; the example for this command:> was setting up a shared dump file on a multi-root system disk.   David R. Beatty   5 On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:31:18 -0600, Christopher Smith  <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote:   >> -----Original Message-----aE >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]  >kA >> |> In ANY case? Even if it had hard linked cycles built in to  
 >> it? If you ? >> |> start within one of those cycles? I think you will be in   >> for a suprise.i >> |> Or several perhaps...  > E >> And here we go changing the rules in the middle of the game again.xG >> So, how does VMS handle hard links??  Oh wait, VMS doesn't even have  >> them (yet). > C >Well, actually, I think that last I heard there was an interesting I >side-issue of ODS-2 design that allows more than one directory entry perdL >file.  It was simply that you required third-party software (perhaps DFU, I( >don't remember) to do anything with it. >s	 >Regards,B >r >Chris >." >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, ILf >s >/usr/bin/perl -e 'w@ >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >'   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:27:15 -0500o7 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com>oY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgram12 Message-ID: <4Py5Os95U9V=AErH3PPNb55kFc8D@4ax.com>  F On 21 Mar 2001 14:44:00 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  a >In article <99au3h$301p$7@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:h >> hE >> And here we go changing the rules in the middle of the game again. G >> So, how does VMS handle hard links??  Oh wait, VMS doesn't even havet >> them (yet). >rD >VMS has ahd aliaes for years.  In most respectcs equivalent to hardH >links.  And the issue at hand is handled very well, because they're not8 >exactly hard links (don't share all the same problems).  = I rarely use aliases that much, so I don't know the answer tor6 the following question: can alias pount across mounted6 devices?  Unix will allow this -- probably because the; implementation of the Unix file systems pretty much require 
 that ability.2  : However, the above could easily be simulated using logical names.   David R. Beatty    >iG >----------------------------------------------------------------------s@ >Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation> >NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupF >                                | please remove ".aspm" when replying   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:52:05 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramn3 Message-ID: <tqgWn46JA97L@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <ojju6.119$98.5875@news.siol.net>, "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si> writes: > & > $ backup/delete/nolog [...]*.*;* nl: >   . Tends to leave the .DIR:1 files laying around.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group-E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 09:19:39 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgram 3 Message-ID: <gNXg155CpciZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  l In article <4Py5Os95U9V=AErH3PPNb55kFc8D@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com> writes: > ? > I rarely use aliases that much, so I don't know the answer to78 > the following question: can alias pount across mounted8 > devices?  Unix will allow this -- probably because the= > implementation of the Unix file systems pretty much require  > that ability.r >   E Aliases and hard links won't, but it looks like soft links are cominge@ with COE and that's what UNIX uses to point across mount points.  H I wonder if we're getting mount points with COE?  Or just simulating all+ device names in / like the porting library?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation-= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouprE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 22:59:40 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgram6- Message-ID: <873dc56e8z.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  0 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si> writes:   > Tryt > & > $ backup/delete/nolog [...]*.*;* nl:  7 Better, BACKUP/NOCRC/GROUP=0/DELETE <VICTIM> NLA0:./SAVh   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 23:26:38 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramC- Message-ID: <87puf94yfl.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  9 David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com> writes:o  ? > I rarely use aliases that much, so I don't know the answer to 8 > the following question: can alias pount across mounted8 > devices?  Unix will allow this -- probably because the= > implementation of the Unix file systems pretty much requiree > that ability.   5 Softlinks can, hard links can not cross mount points.r   -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:48:49 -0500t7 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com>aY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgramO2 Message-ID: <vR66Ojd9jtr94fp5k69VBPgC6dBO@4ax.com>  F On 22 Mar 2001 09:19:39 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  m >In article <4Py5Os95U9V=AErH3PPNb55kFc8D@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com> writes:e >> e@ >> I rarely use aliases that much, so I don't know the answer to9 >> the following question: can alias pount across mountede9 >> devices?  Unix will allow this -- probably because the-> >> implementation of the Unix file systems pretty much require >> that ability. >> e >cF >Aliases and hard links won't, but it looks like soft links are comingA >with COE and that's what UNIX uses to point across mount points.c  - D'oh!  You are right -- I got them backwards.s   > I >I wonder if we're getting mount points with COE?  Or just simulating all , >device names in / like the porting library? >)G >---------------------------------------------------------------------- @ >Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation> >NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupF >                                | please remove ".aspm" when replying   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 18:30:11 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>5Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS     EducationalProgram0H Message-ID: <y4d7b9g198.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  9 David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com> writes:?  ? > I rarely use aliases that much, so I don't know the answer tok8 > the following question: can alias pount across mounted > devices?    L VMS aliases can't: they are just normal directory entries. Only looking backJ from the pointed-to block in the index file can you decide whether it is a" primary or an alias/hard link one.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:30:56 -0600T* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EdJ- Message-ID: <0033000019389325000002L052*@MHS>h   =0APaul,  9 What you're talking about goes back to the "Dayes of DOS"c< when Microsoft leveraged their dominance in the PC OS market; by forcing manufacturers to sign agreements where they paid : Microsoft a royalty for every machine they *manufactured*,A regardless of whether MS-DOS was actually installed on it or not.@  = This gave consumers the choice of getting MS-DOS bundled with.> the machine for "free", or paying extra to run something else.  @ And this is one of the reasons I think the antitrust case should? proceed and the MS "apps" (I use the term loosely) group shouldnH be split off from the "operating system" (I use the term *very* loosely= )s group.   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETw( > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 6:56 AM8 > To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETH > Subject: RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Ed=   >n >a- > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:s > H > > Okay then - as far as I understood the concept is the same: offerin= gaH > > the Windoze API on the host platform. Maybe the licence requirement=  - > > comes from a contract between SUN and M$.i > H > This brings up an interesting point. I have a linux box, that used to=  A > run NT4. So, it *is* licenced for windows! And, from what I cancF > understand from the PC retail people I know, most every machine goesD > out the door with a gateshit licence of some sort. Adding Linux or= > BSD, or for that matter, VMS would not change that licence.- >- > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.DB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. >=   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 17:35:09 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>X Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Educati  onalProgram)- Message-ID: <87zoee5epe.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:   F > Okay then - as far as I understood the concept is the same: offeringE > the Windoze API on the host platform. Maybe the licence requirement + > comes from a contract between SUN and M$.s  E This brings up an interesting point. I have a linux box, that used too? run NT4. So, it *is* licenced for windows! And, from what I canlD understand from the PC retail people I know, most every machine goesB out the door with a gateshit licence of some sort. Adding Linux or; BSD, or for that matter, VMS would not change that licence.|   -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 13:36:13 GMT* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)X Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Educati  onalProgram)3 Message-ID: <99cv4d$8ud$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>t  , In article <3AB925E1.1C7BA213@infopuls.com>,, 	Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Brian Wheeler wrote: >> '9 >> In article <20010319235152.C2459@mozart.infopuls.com>, 6 >>         Brass Christof <brass@infopuls.com> writes:G >> > On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 09:27:59AM -0600, Christopher Smith wrote:e" >> >> > -----Original Message-----8 >> >> > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com] >> >>   >> >> > Christopher Smith wrote: >> >>aL >> >> > > Softwindows, WABI, Wine, BOCHS, .... you tell me -- why isn't Unix' >> >> > > implementing the windows API?w >> >> ! >> >> > > Seems to me that it is.h >> >>i= >> >> > Yup, it is, someway. Could you tell me what BOCHS is?  >> >>tQ >> >> BOCHS is kind of a different approach -- it's a "DOS emulator" ... actually P >> >> more of a "wintel" emulator.  I've heard tales of it booting OS/2, windowsP >> >> 95, and linux, and actually running to an extent, though I'm not sure what
 >> >> extent.  >> >! >> > Then it's similar to VMware.- >> -P >> No.  VMware lets the CPU run most of the instructions natively, just trappingM >> those which are required to maintain the virtual machine.  Bochs is a full I >> emulator for the x86, more inline with VICE (an emulator for the C64).r >  > Yup. Learned that in between.- > 2 >> > Can I conlude that it's less than satisfying? >> e >> You might...or might not. >  > I do.c > - >> > WINE requires some sort of Windows also.l >> sK >> No, it does not.  It is a reimplementation of windows.  Original windowsoI >> code is only required if you're emulating a windows binary....and onlym- >> then if the WINE libraries are incomplete.t > B > Yup. Learned that in between. What do you mean with "emulating aA > windows binary"? Are talking about a genuine M$ tool that comesh > with Windoze like the CLI?  M On x86 machines you can run a windows .exe file as if it were native, becauserG of environment emulation routines (mainly LDT and GDT tinkering) in thetO kernel.  The wine version of the dlls will be loaded unless they are overriddennD (by the user) to use the native windows ones, or if there is no wine! equivalent (such as vbrunx00.dll)    >   >> > AFAIK from a sound PR eventK >> > organised by SUN to promote Solaris/386 you even have to buy a WindowseI >> > licence - though I'm not sure about this because this was about 1990nJ >> > or even earlier. One of the best technical PR events I ever met. OnlyN >> > a few SUN people but highly qualified, sound answers, very good concepts. >> > Alas UNIX crap ...l >> a- >> WABI required a windows license, not Wine.r > = > Okay then - as far as I understood the concept is the same:hB > offering the Windoze API on the host platform. Maybe the licence7 > requirement comes from a contract between SUN and M$.c  M WABI does binary emulation _only_.  Wine does binary emulation _and_ providesi5 a source API to provide building native applications.t   Briano   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:34:46 +0000s/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>lK Subject: re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Educatiot7 Message-ID: <009F964C.8FA57E5B.36@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>-   > A > Question: Can you pipe a list of filenames into DELETE on VMS??  >  > bill > N Rhetorical? Ans: No, because piping isn't the "VMS way". On VMS, you typically1 write (say) DELETE.TMP containing lines formatted9 $ DELETE file1 $ DELETE file2   ...a# and them invoke it with @DELETE.TMPt  H or you write a procedure containing F$SEARCH and F$FILE_ATTR (which haveE no direct Unix equivalents, find being the closest) to locate delete U9 targets and then feed those directly to DELETE commands.    I I'm not saying that this is better any more than I'm saying that the Unix0F approach is. I manage both VMS and Linux, and there are times I wish IG had BASH and friends on VMS, also times I wish I had DCL and friends onw Linux. s  J One advantage of the VMS way is debugging. Creating the DELETE.TMP file isK a harmless operation. You can then TYPE it and check that the list of filesrD is sensible before invoking it. In contrast, if you feed find outputG directly to rm, you are doing the equivalent of looking down the barrel D of a loaded gun. (For which reason, I often write temp.sh files from9 gawk or find on Linux, then view them, then invoke them).k  @ And my last (only) word on the COE noise: It's a damn good idea,F *provided* that any kernel-mode code is done by VMS engineering to theF usual high standard. Some Unix tools are of high quality, some aren't.J Being able to port them easily is a good thing. Provided that Compaq don'tD put their name to any bad ports or (worse) make them part of the VMS- product, COE can only help VMS, not harm it.    E There's an MS analogy: although mass-market code most often is run on;B Win 9x, most developers code on NT or 2K, then port as necessary. @ That's because NT is less unreliable, more likely to catch your C programming errors than crash your system or trash your disk. Could I VMS become the best developer platform for Unix codes? No more impossibleb1 than IBM selling S390s to run Linux was in 1995. E   	Yours,a
 		Nigel Arnoty- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:51:50 -0600t+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>>V Subject: RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram)L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD54C6@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]   > Bill Gunshannon wrote:    -F > > Maybe you didn't, but the general gist of the thread here has beenG > > that everything is sipler on VMS as compared to Unix.  I can removed@ > > the tree with two commands.  No 50-100 line shell script is  > necessary. > >  > > bill > >  > > --> > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see)  > n.  Three wolvesH > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton   |B > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   > Damed you are fucking right!!   H [Left this in there to see how many mail servers will reject it - Chris]  B > UNIX is one of the system where you can blow out a whole disk inA > a few seconds whithout beeing asked or having a simple catch tor? > prevent this (and no way to recover besides a recent backup).e= > Like vi where you can loose a couple of hours work with the  > wrong keystroke.B > Great improvement. Did you ever think of how useful your exampleA > might be? Is this your daily task whiping out a whole directoryy > tree?k  K In fairness, there are plenty of other systems where you can blow an entiredC disk away without meaning to.  In fact, if you count for the use ofo7 third-party tools, I'd say nearly every system is so...c  G Also I feel compelled here to point out that vi (at least these days...tI don't know about the older ones) has an undo command, and the only way toaK loose hours of work would be to overwrite the wrong file. :)  (It's too bad-K there aren't any unixes that use file versions. -- Generally, I believe SuncE had an FS that supported it once.)  I find rcs to be a useful tool tolB prevent this. (I would prefer a filesystem with versions, though.)  L Now TECO -- there's an editor that will wipe out your whole disk if you type a ` in the wrong place ;)v   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl DeveloperI Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");n 't   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:18:58 -0600r+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>.V Subject: RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram)L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD54C7@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]   > Christopher Smith wrote: > >   > > > -----Original Message-----6 > > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]  B > > > And there is one additional thing wrong with point 3: beeingB > > > compatible with UNIX isn't a point in favour of Linux at all@ > > > because the Linux developers and users give a shit on thatF > > > because they never ever think a second about UNIX which in their@ > > > opions is a crap, old, shitty and very expensive OS, which@ > > > exists in many incompatible flavours. Why would they care?  = > > That's not the impression I get from most linux users -- e > which ones have you ? > > been talking to? :)  I've even managed to get several very y > adamant linux = > > fans interested in -- or at least appreciative of -- VMS.   $ > Look into the Linux documentation.& > Listen to what Linux Thorvalds says.  G Maybe you're talking about the "linux only" developers -- I still don'tOK believe they have that low an opinion of unix, since linux is, after all, a-H unix. :)  In my opinion, all of the better software that's available forL linux still comes from other places.  I have believed that "linux only" appsL happen because of inexperienced programmers with limited resources.  I will,) however, look around for proof otherwise.   I As for Linus Torvalds' opinion, I'm certain that it isn't necessarily thelK opinion of the entire linux development community.  Anyway, Andy TannenbaumlJ (my spelling is bad) wouldn't have given him a passing grade for it, so he@ is likely to be wrong in some respects.  (I forget the quote. :)  K (I've not really studied linux's kernel code, however, I've taken a look atNI minix's code, which is relatively well done for the target platform (8086 I intel, 512k ram, small hard disk).  It has some quirks I'd choose to fix, L had I been designing it, but in general is as well thought-out as it can be.5 I have to give some weight to Tannenbaum's opinion. )    Regards,   Chris-  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer8 Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");: 'e  S   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 12:12:04 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>aY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) PrlH Message-ID: <y4k85iawhn.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  " John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  9 > DCL does define the commands as well as the structure. i  G DCLTABLES.EXE defines most of the commands. DCL does defines the syntax 9 and provides some of the semantics (lexicals, built-ins).0  G > "Directory" as the command for listing file names is part of the DCL  L > definition, as is "copy" for copying files and "delete" for removing them.  D Not strictly true. And nothing stops you from providing an alternateI DIRECTORY.EXE file that does something completely different, like copying:F everything to a secret location before deleting it - except normal VMSH file protection mechanisms, of course. Interesting interactions with the: DCL$PATH mechanism are also possible, just as on Unix 8-).  D > Because the commands are part of the DCL definition, orthogonality9 > and consistency of qualifiers ("switches") is enforced.I  @ DCLTABLES, but apart from that true (there are some exceptions).  B > Jargon is not a virtue.  It is a necessity.  More jargon than is! > necessary is counterproductive.s   Exactly.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:39:42 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>oY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Proo, Message-ID: <3AB9C85E.1BF0A1E0@infopuls.com>   Brian Wheeler wrote: > N > I was going to put a detailed rebuttal of Mr. Brass' comments, but I'm tiredM > of wasting my time on someone who has no touch with reality.  I do not care-M > if it means that I've "lost the argument", but I hereby invoke Godel's Law:c > N >         Mr. Brass, your behavior of VMS vs Unix is frightenly reminiscent ofM >         the Nazis in WW2 of Germans vs. the Jews.  Their reasons for hating-O >         the Jews are as irrational as your hatred (YES, HATRED) of Unix.  YoujL >         insist that any exposure to anything that has been exposed to UnixL >         will contaminate VMS, much like children are worried about gettingL >         cooties from girls.  You repeatedly ignored reality when it didn'tJ >         suit your argument and constantly change your "point" when it is >         proven wrong.n > O > I will continue to use VMS for what is good for, as long as it is the correctMM > choice.  I will use Unix for what it is good for [here Mr. Brass, I'll savemK > you the trouble:  "its all crap!  Unix sucks, its good for nothing!"].  IrL > will continue to support the COE initiative on VMS as it might be the lastH > chance for VMS to dig itself out of the niche it is being driven into. >  > Brian:  ; I thought during the last several hour about responding and ; finally I decided to respond to keep this discussion alive. @ Unfortuntately the poster is exchanging technical arguments with? emotional. Those who have read my posts will know that I alwaysg? presented technical arguments. In fact some others also agreed.o< In fact it is really of no importance if the poster lost his@ argument because the point is what is truth and what is reality.? Unfortunately the poster reveals a severe lack of understandingo: the technical points and therefore claims that I change my? "point". This isn't true. I always insist in technical analysis > and so far nobody was able to show technically where UNIX crap8 and its UNIX crap apps excel. Moreover unlike the poster= suggests it's not the fact that something has been exposed to < UNIX crap (what does this mean anyway with thoughts and SW?)8 which spoils VMS; it's mere the fact that two completely: different approaches (one designed, the other by "natural"9 growth) cannot be brought together without severe loss inh consistency.  = To conclude this: there isn't any of my points which has beene
 proven wrong.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:39:05 -0500b# From: SteveSov <st3v3sov@yahoo.com>eY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Pro ) Message-ID: <3ABA1C99.3F0B844B@yahoo.com>i   David Beatty wrote:d > B > Absolutely!  Look at the directory structure of the system disk.< > There is also a command to create the equivalent of a UnixE > link, but I don't remember what it is; the example for this commandd@ > was setting up a shared dump file on a multi-root system disk. >  > David R. Beattye >    Perhaps you're thinking of:   < $ SET FILE/ENTER=name.new [directory.path]original.real_file   ...and its partner command  7 $ SET FILE/REMOVE=delete_this_name_but_not_the.contents    SteveSov   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 02:56:09 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer):B Subject: Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library.1 Message-ID: <+sb4aMfu3C24@cartman.ourservers.net>c   > K >> If I'm in NON-SYSTEM account, it dosnen't handle the Unix file/directorynI >> names properly and I get errors on the file names.  Even if I run fromlH >> an account that has ALL the privs (like a copy of the system account) >> it won't work properly. > / > You've got to post the actual error messages.t > 7 > Also, see what HELP/MESSAGE says about your messages.  >a  8 Sorry, maby I didn't make myself clear on the problem...  A If I run the program as SYSTEM and it encounters a file name likenM "config.h.in" it properly converts it to "config_h.in" like it's supposed to.c  < If I run the program as anyone else (same executable) and itF encoutners the same file name I get an error about the file name beingJ invalid, the porting library didn't convert it like it was supposed to and- like it did when ran from the SYSTEM account.-  D It appears to convert directory names no problem, but not filenames.   -- h  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:41:10 +0100 + From: "Robert de Boer" <r.e.deboer@kpn.com>>B Subject: Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library.. Message-ID: <99cl79$jm9$1@info.service.rug.nl>   Robert,S  G I think that you could have a problem with ODS-5 filesystem settings. IlE thougt that per-proces certain things could be set. I haven't got thenH OpenVMS manuals availbale but I thouhgt that I read something about this8 tpoic in the release-notes for OpenVMS 7.0, 7.1 and 7.2.  
 with regards, # Robert de Boer (r.e.deboer@kpn.com) > "Robert Alan Byer" <byer@mail.ourservers.net> wrote in message+ news:+sb4aMfu3C24@cartman.ourservers.net...  > >e> > >> If I'm in NON-SYSTEM account, it dosnen't handle the Unix file/directoryK > >> names properly and I get errors on the file names.  Even if I run from J > >> an account that has ALL the privs (like a copy of the system account) > >> it won't work properly. > >a1 > > You've got to post the actual error messages.> > > 9 > > Also, see what HELP/MESSAGE says about your messages.d > >m >>: > Sorry, maby I didn't make myself clear on the problem... >dC > If I run the program as SYSTEM and it encounters a file name likeyK > "config.h.in" it properly converts it to "config_h.in" like it's supposedL to.  >x> > If I run the program as anyone else (same executable) and itH > encoutners the same file name I get an error about the file name beingL > invalid, the porting library didn't convert it like it was supposed to and/ > like it did when ran from the SYSTEM account.i >wF > It appears to convert directory names no problem, but not filenames. >> > -- >fB >  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+B >  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |B >  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+B >  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |B >  +-------------------------------------------------------------+B >  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |B >  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |B >  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |B >  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |B >  +-------------------------------------------------------------+ >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:03:42 GMT-' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>,B Subject: Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library.- Message-ID: <3ABA05F6.2260ABCE@theblakes.com>U   Can you post the output of:E  $ $ SHOW LOGICAL VMS_FILENAME_CONTROLS  O From both the SYSTEM account when it works and from the "other" account when it 
 doesn't work.    Colin.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 09:06:32 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)nB Subject: Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library.3 Message-ID: <8e14F45LO6wi@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  e In article <EMzcBnuUi8Qv@cartman.ourservers.net>, byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) writes:  >  >  > But... > J > If I'm in NON-SYSTEM account, it dosnen't handle the Unix file/directoryH > names properly and I get errors on the file names.  Even if I run fromG > an account that has ALL the privs (like a copy of the system account)i > it won't work properly.i [...]dN > I don't have the VMS_JACKETS.EXE installed so I don't think that's a problemH > and on a whim I installed it and got the same thing.  I have a logicalJ > VMS_JACKETS defined to point to the VMS_JACKETS.EXE shared library since? > I have the porting library installed in a seperate directory.i >   B What's the full definition of VMS_JACKETS?  Are you sure the other; username can see it?  Also the other logicals you're using.i  G It sounds like you're picking up VMS_JACKETS when you run under SYSTEM,tG but somehow you're getting right to the C RTL when you're running under  the other account.  F Knowing some of the details of shareable images, that should result in much more obvious errors.y  E Can you put some debug code into the VMS_JACKETS image to verify thatoE you're getting into those routines?  (Don't forget to install replaceS6 or at least install remove the one you had installed.)  H Try putting you image into a wait mode and use SDA to see if the process$ has the VMS_JACKETS image file open.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouphE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:44:19 GMTn' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> B Subject: Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library.- Message-ID: <3ABA1D8B.ED8E17F6@theblakes.com>m   Can you post the output of:M  $ $ SHOW LOGICAL VMS_FILENAME_CONTROLS  O From both the SYSTEM account when it works and from the "other" account when itc
 doesn't work.    Colin.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:13:49 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: NAS/SAN8 Message-ID: <g7jjbtgdij3utqri5p9rovbb6l9t29s78j@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:44:33 -0500, Jack Bogart <jbogart@vangard.com>  wrote:  M >Is anyone mounting OpenVMS volumes to a NAS (Network Appliance Filer), or on-L >a SAN (other than EMC or StorageWorks)?  Any performance issues?  Problems?
 >Warnings?  E A SAN in *theory* shouldn't really be any more of as problem than any C generic SCSI solution. In pactice I'd stick to Storageworks. NAS onnF the other hand relies on an NFS mounted volume. It's fine mounted fromD VMS for simple text files etc and can even support RMS shared accessE etc but I wouldn't push it in this configuration. Best let VMS handleeE the disks natively than rely on a host of conversions of protections, # owners, semantics, file locking etc   F That said I did run my SYSUAF Default directory on one for a while andD after some fiddling got most things to work transparently. IncludingA ability to receive mail, backup to device, run databases etc. ThenC performance was surprisingly good but I would still be very wary offB using any NFS mounted volume on VMS in heavy use without extensive- testing of the target configuration and apps.   C As we are just about to install another NetApp server with around a C Terabyte of storage and Gigabit Ethernet I fancy sticking a Gigabitn( card into an ES40 and playing some more. >  > = >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  >Jack L. BogartI >Solutions EngineerrK >StorNet, Inc.          175 Montrose West Avenue; Suite 280          Akron,F
 >Ohio   44321dE >Office (330) 666-5190     Fax (330) 666-0830     Cell (330) 284-7471pI >Centralized Storage Management --- High Availability --- Data Protection F >Outsourced Storage Operations --- Consulting --- Support --- TrainingK >"I feel that there is a world market for as many as five computers" Thomasp >Watson, IBM corp. - 1943e= >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~n >n   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:26:32 +0000   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com+ Subject: Re: One For the CI Cluster Experts H Message-ID: <OF4FDA466E.5C96B4AE-ON80256A17.00497F4E@qedi.quintiles.com>  H With an unterminated DSSI you'll get PAA0: closing the virtual circuit I think rather than PEA0:.G I have also had PAA0: circuits closing to a device when one of the DSSI I widgets had a flakey PSU.  The voltage out of the PSU dropped, the devicepK went out giving a port is closing virtual cct message then the supply wouldgE recover, device comes back on line then start at the beginning again.    Mark Sterk wrote: ! > >What do those PEA0 errors say?  > Here's an error log entry...  > NI-SCS SUB-SYSTEM, _VAX4$PEA0:( >        PORT HAS CLOSED VIRTUAL CIRCUIT   <trim>H Maybe a stupid suggestion but if you have a unterminated DSSI bus you'll get similar messages.<<<   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 11:26:35 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>y, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File PermissionsH Message-ID: <y41yrqcd5w.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  F >   DII COE requires a file last access date.  This is support is not E >   related to the error in the directory modification date handling.n  I That's what I thought...but what actually happened with the latter (bug)? G From the description, it sounded much like a random number generator...a   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 11:57:16 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>n, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File PermissionsH Message-ID: <y4n1aeax6b.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:m  A > And I like to have the possibility of case sensitive file namess> > but the change is only half way. It only remembers the first@ > writing wrt case. It doesn't allow to have two files named "a"? > and "A". I would have liked another option to make it as some  > other OSs wrt case.   L AFAIK, what you describe is ODS-5 extended file name parsing, which is case-N preserving and case-blind. What COE gives you is real, stupid Unix/Posix case-M sensitive file naming, i.e., "a" and "A" are different files. (This is one ofs: the few things MS's newer file systems got right, IMNSHO.)   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:21:23 -0800-! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com1, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File PermissionsD Message-ID: <OF07925694.019A9358-ON88256A17.0064CA3A@foundation.com>  F Did I understand right? Christof just asked for a Unix feature on VMS?   Shanea          D Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> on 03/22/2001 02:57:16 AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt cc:i  - Subject:  Re: POSIX Streams, File PermissionsC    + Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:t  A > And I like to have the possibility of case sensitive file namesf> > but the change is only half way. It only remembers the first@ > writing wrt case. It doesn't allow to have two files named "a"? > and "A". I would have liked another option to make it as someI > other OSs wrt case.o  F AFAIK, what you describe is ODS-5 extended file name parsing, which is case- H preserving and case-blind. What COE gives you is real, stupid Unix/Posix case-tJ sensitive file naming, i.e., "a" and "A" are different files. (This is one of: the few things MS's newer file systems got right, IMNSHO.)        Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:36:52 +0000C% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e# Subject: Re: Support of old systems 8 Message-ID: <nhgjbt85qbrs4quntsjmt2uktkn4c6vlrf@4ax.com>  . On 21 Mar 2001 16:19:47 +0100, Jan Vorbrueggen8 <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:  / >Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:n >uI >> BTW, is not the PAL code meant to implement all new Alpha instructionsS >> on older machines?o >eG >No, they resulted in an UUO exception 8-) and the OS has to emulate it G >then. Much more costly than generating a sequence of ZAPs and so on inr >place.w  @ UUOs? Better start including monsym, macsym, uuosym etc then :-)  C [These were the days...from the depths of memory something like...]G   	include monsym.macsym 	require sys:macrela  - start::	hrroi, t1, [asciz/TOPS-20 for ever!/]  	psout%  	 erhlt  	haltf% 
 	end start    , TOPS-10 version left as exercise for reader.  1 When oh when can I get a working PDP-10 emulator.    >	Jan    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 11:30:26 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>t# Subject: Re: Support of old systemsYH Message-ID: <y4y9tyayf1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  K > VMS engineering have almost ripped out the entire foundation and replacedaK > it with a much, much better one, and no one seems to have noticed. P2 andfK > the unlimited ( almost ) VA took a huge amount of work, and NOTHING BROKEsK > at the normal user level! And, for that matter, very few changes in inner  > mode utility code.   Very much agreed!r   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 11:34:58 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e# Subject: Re: Support of old systemsiH Message-ID: <y4vgp2ay7h.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  N > :But the old stuff should continue to work, subject to resource constraints.F >   Why?  At what cost?  Support for older hardware can and does placeH >   constraints on new work and new development, in addition to the veryH >   obvious detractions involving testing and engineering support costs.9 [snip description of boot and installation environements]   I Agreed. I was thinking more along the lines of why one would desupport annJ environement that doesn't change and for which the drivers etc are alreadyO written, and not in the critical path for such things as boot and installation.wN I mean, does it save anything to no longer supply the drivers for TurboChannelN widgets - or is that desupport by Tru64 along the lines of "we didn't test it,A it might be broken or break in the future, use at your own risk"?    	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:56:27 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-# Subject: Re: Support of old systems 3 Message-ID: <v$yq6w7eVFYL@eisner.encompasserve.org>:  ` In article <nhgjbt85qbrs4quntsjmt2uktkn4c6vlrf@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > B > UUOs? Better start including monsym, macsym, uuosym etc then :-) > E > [These were the days...from the depths of memory something like...]n    % Back when GALXY was the batch system?k  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupEE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingr   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 09:08:20 -05003 From: malmberg@encompasserve.org (John E. Malmberg) # Subject: Re: Support of old systemsm3 Message-ID: <CW1YU6Bl3R7m@eisner.encompasserve.org>H  5 In article <1010321182132.3712B-100000@Ives.egh.com>,s& John Santos <JOHN@egh.company> writes: >tD > I would love to have a CD-ROM on my VAX 4000-200 at work and on myD > VAX 3600 at home...  At work I have a HSD05 on the DSSI bus with aC > single RZ29 in a BA356 (as well as a pair of RF disks on the samec> > DSSI bus.)  Can I put an RRD4x in the top slot of the BA356,@ > which seems to be a raw 5 1/2 SCSI slot purposely designed for? > CD-ROMS?  Or an external CD-ROM drive?  (I have an RRD42 in an? > desk-top box I can play with.)  Will I be able to boot my VAX 
 > from it?  E Going strictly from my memory, and I do not know from that if it is a"B supported configuration, a SCSI CDROM connected to the SCSI bus on& an HSD05 should work, and be bootable.   I have never tried it though.e  D > What about my 3600 at home?  (Hobbyist system).  No SCSI, No DSSI.9 > Has anyone ever written a PC emulator of an Infoserver?o  # I have not seen anyone admit to it.   ! > Would an Infoserver emulator beu& > a) possible, technically or legally?  = Anything is possible.  I do not not know if there are patentsl> involved.  AFAIK the LAD and LAST protocols are not publically
 available.  ; Used Infoservers do show up from time to time, but with oute: the activation key CD-ROMs and load media, they can easily become doorstops.-  8 > b) not an insane amount of work as a hobbyist project?   What do you consider fun?i  = > c) useful enough to the hobbyist community (those with old,i= >    CD-less VAXes, mostly, I would think) to be worth doing?e  ' There may be some cheaper alternatives..  > > d) isn't the infoserver actually a microVAX of some variety?C >    could the infoserver software run under a MV emulator on a PC?a  B There were two flavors.  One used a VAX processor running VAX ELN.@ VAX ELN did not require a VAX processor chip with virtual memory hardware enabled.s  ) I am not sure what the other flavor used.     > e) is there a better approach?  	 Possibly.   = > (Last time I looked, QBUS SCSI controllers are about $1000.n< > No way for a hobbyist, or even for a business that is only< > keeping a VAX around to support the last few customers who$ > still haven't migrated to Alphas.)  @ The last I looked the used third party ones were about $500 U.S.; I do not have a list of suppliers with me, and can not givee any recomendations.a    < I wrote up an article on aquiring hardware for Hobby OpenVMS? on Encompasserve, and it was reprinted in the Dallas Fort Worth 6 Compaq User's group (with out some minor corrections).  J You can read a copy at http://encompasserve.org/~malmberg/dcl/hobbyvms.txt  < You may be able to find a used VMS capable system that has a; SCSI bus (and possibly a CD-ROM) for less than a Q-BUS SCSI ? adaptor.  By making that system a VMSCLUSTER boot node, you can " load OpenVMS on your other system.  > A cross architecture bootstrap should be possible.  I have not? yet tried it, and I would not expect the method to be supported  officially.L   -Johnx wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlym   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 22:56:13 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com># Subject: Re: Support of old systemsw- Message-ID: <877l1h6eeq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:o  . > TOPS-10 version left as exercise for reader. > 3 > When oh when can I get a working PDP-10 emulator.-  
 alt.sys.pdp10-   http://www.trailing-edge.com/   3 We need some one who remembers how to install TOPS.-   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.+@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:52:20 +0000q% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m# Subject: Re: Support of old systems 8 Message-ID: <d56kbtsc2hab8c8in3n8k0baurfdtltij7@4ax.com>  F On 22 Mar 2001 08:56:27 -0500, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  a >In article <nhgjbt85qbrs4quntsjmt2uktkn4c6vlrf@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:e >> sC >> UUOs? Better start including monsym, macsym, uuosym etc then :-)r >>  F >> [These were the days...from the depths of memory something like...] >f > & >Back when GALXY was the batch system?  F Ah yes, Galaxy: pulsar, orion, lptspl, sprint, sprout, quasar are justF some of the components of galaxy I can remember off hand. Galaxy beingC the overall name for the batch/print etc system on both TOPS-10 andb8 TOPS-20.  Think I can even remember what they all did...  G >---------------------------------------------------------------------- @ >Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation> >NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupF >                                | please remove ".aspm" when replying   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:31:57 GMTu5 From: Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org>c7 Subject: Re: the Northeast Digital Systems Ebay Folliese/ Message-ID: <3AB9B879.3A199C5C@childrenshc.org>h   Wayne Sewell wrote:n > P > A while back, someone made a comment here that Northeast Digital Systems had aO > shitload of alphas available on ebay.  For months now, we've been seeing whata. > appeared to be a huge stock of alphas go by. > O > However, we have not been seeing a series of alpha sales.   We are seeing the?Q > *same* alpha systems offered over and over because they were not sold.   If youCK > actually track the auctions, you see that they do not complete becasue ofTP > "reserve price not met."   Bascially, the machines are not selling because theL > reserve price is set at some high value, much higher than anybody has been > willing to pay thus far. > B > As far as I can tell, they have not sold *one* of those systems. > J > Northeast Digital's feedback rating has been stuck at 23 ever since theyQ > started posting these alphas months ago.  You have to complete a transaction tooP > get feedback.  :-)  Of the two feedback entries since October 2000, neither is > for an alpha system. > N > They appear to have about a dozen Digital Workstation 433/500/600 models forM > sale, both A and AU, though it seems like thousands of units because of the 
 > repetition.a > N > As soon as an auction terminates, they immediately resubmit the same machineO > in a new one.  I don't know if they adjust the reserve price downward or not.L > G > I have absolutely no idea what their reserve prices are, but they areEP > apparently far above what I am willing to pay.   I wouldn't mind having one ofP > the 600AU units and have tried to probe with the highest price I can bear, butP > still get the beloved "you are high bidder, but the reserve price has not beenQ > met".   Since *all* of the units are still sitting there unsold, it appears theR7 > reserve is far above what *anyone* is willing to pay.8 > P > Does anyone know of a Northeast Digital alpha auction that actually completed? > $ > If so, what model and final price? >   F It looks like somebody finally antied up enough money to get above the( reserve on one of Northeast's machines.   6 It's a 600au, with 512M of ram, and 1 18.1G diskdrive.   Current Bid: $2,600.  C I looked at their web-site, and the same 600au, they have listed atN
 $2,999.00.  H Hmmm... Seems more than a wee bit high for me. But... If somebody want's' to pay that kind of money.... so be it.t   -- a Lyndon F. Bartels  VMS Systems Administratorc Childrens Hospitals and Clinicse lyndon.bartels#childrenshc.org 651-855-2504 (work)n 651-855-2570 (fax)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:50:44 +0000l$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk( Subject: These Unix/Vms/whatever threads/ Message-ID: <00256A17.00570F38.00@quegw01.btyp>,   cc:  bcc:L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza   These Unix/Vms/whatever threads     # Christof wrote [among other things]t   "Damed you are fucking right!!"o  M Which is now the time where I am preparing to remove myself from the Info-VAXiO list. There seems to be no point to these threads any longer, and any technicalnE input is drowned in Christof's negativity to anything other than VMS.~  P Can I respectfully ask that when postings degenerate to this level, that they be taken offline?  N The percentage of bandwidth devoted to this is making it difficult to seperate the nuggets from the slush.3   All IMHO of course.3   Steve Spires     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:03:24 -0500A+ From: "O'Connor, Marty" <MOConnor@DVFS.COM>r, Subject: RE: These Unix/Vms/whatever threadsF Message-ID: <85C741006DA1D0119CE00000F8752CE30407898E@msexc1.dvfs.com>   I agree.   These Unix/Vms/whatever threadse  # Christof wrote [among other things]    "Damed you are fucking right!!"   D Which is now the time where I am preparing to remove myself from the Info-VAXE list. There seems to be no point to these threads any longer, and anyn	 technicalIE input is drowned in Christof's negativity to anything other than VMS.   H Can I respectfully ask that when postings degenerate to this level, that they bee taken offline?  E The percentage of bandwidth devoted to this is making it difficult to1 seperate the nuggets from the slush..   All IMHO of course.i   Steve Spires   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:29:02 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)>0 Subject: Re: Uaf Show/rights status bug (v7.2-1)3 Message-ID: <pGLtYpd4GoAR@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  d In article <4p3u6.31124$1f.161798@quark.idirect.com>, "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> writes:2 > Just a heads-up for anyone converting to V7.2-1. > : > It seems that the "show/rights" portion of the authorize+ > utility for OpenVMS version 7.2-1 (Alpha)-9 > returns a bad status.   This can lead to broken command1+ > files &etc. for user authorization tasks.i >  > Version 7.2-1... > $ uaf:=$authorizeP > $ uaf show/rights system? > Identifier                         Value           Attributes-/ >   NET$MANAGE                       %X91F50002 / >   NET$DIAGNOSE                     %X91F50004o > $ sh sym $status >   $STATUS == "%X10000000"  >  > Version 7.1... > $  uaf show/rights systemn? > Identifier                         Value           AttributesA/ >   NET$MANAGE                       %X91F50002s > $ sh sym $status >   $STATUS == "%X00000001"  >   > I'm logging a call to DEQ now. > Scotth >   - 	Here's one for you ... on VMS 6.2 , you get:e   $ uaf :== $authorize $ uaf show /right system= Identifier                         Value           Attributese   [snip]   $ show sym $status   $STATUS == "%X100381F0"S   $ @find_message 100381F0  % Message found in system message file:0E 100381F0 -> %CLI-W-ABSENT, entity or value absent from command stringS   	Interesting.  r   				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:55:15 +0800 5 From: Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com>e+ Subject: unable to ftp for certain user a/c 8 Message-ID: <utijbtsp6tn37ek455b4asrlhmndatn6b9@4ax.com>  A We had few users which used FTP client to extract reports file to  their local PC.,  D Recently, we encountered some user having problems access system via FTP (MSDOS)t =======e
 C:\>ftp dec02  Connected to dec02.xxxxf 220 DEC02 FTP Server User (dec02.xxxx 331 Username ALDEN ret	 Password:  530 Login incorrect.
 Login failed.o ftp> ======="* If I tried FTP within OpenVMS, I got this:   DEC02_SYSTEM>ftp dec02) 220 DEC02 FTP Server (Version 4.1) Ready.c Connected to DEC02.  Name (DEC02:system): alden& 331 Username ALDEN requires a Password
 Password:  530 Login incorrect.% %FTP-E-LOGREJ, Login request rejected, 425 Session is disconnected.
 DEC02_SYSTEM>  ======  5 I tried other user a/c, but they are able to connect.S  " What is the cause of the problem??C Is there something like Unix's ftp.allow, ftp.deny stuffs active ine OpenVMS?        n Regards,  	 Netsurfero        ====R For any personal email replies, please remove " sentosa. " from my E-mail address.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:53:25 +0800.5 From: Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com>r+ Subject: unable to ftp for certain user a/c 8 Message-ID: <qiijbtkk3pm6tk218l6t8qbu524u2bq2i8@4ax.com>  A We had few users which used FTP client to extract reports file to  their local PC.t  D Recently, we encountered some user having problems access system via FTP (MSDOS)U =======r
 C:\>ftp dec02g Connected to dec02.xxxxt 220 DEC02 FTP Server User (dec02.xxxx 331 Username ALDEN res	 Password:k 530 Login incorrect.
 Login failed.q ftp> =======a* If I tried FTP within OpenVMS, I got this:   DEC02_SYSTEM>ftp dec02) 220 DEC02 FTP Server (Version 4.1) Ready.  Connected to DEC02.  Name (DEC02:system): alden& 331 Username ALDEN requires a Password
 Password:  530 Login incorrect.% %FTP-E-LOGREJ, Login request rejected3 425 Session is disconnected.
 DEC02_SYSTEM>s ======  5 I tried other user a/c, but they are able to connect.l  " What is the cause of the problem??C Is there something like Unix's ftp.allow, ftp.deny stuffs active inp OpenVMS?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:55:39 +0800n5 From: Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com>,+ Subject: unable to ftp for certain user a/c 8 Message-ID: <50jjbts6247nqd4p1gdm60fc4cnrdqks1j@4ax.com>  A We had few users which used FTP client to extract reports file toe their local PC.   D Recently, we encountered some user having problems access system via FTP (MSDOS)- ======= 
 C:\>ftp dec020 Connected to dec02.xxxxa 220 DEC02 FTP Server User (dec02.xxxx 331 Username ALDEN ree	 Password:R 530 Login incorrect.
 Login failed.D ftp> =======s* If I tried FTP within OpenVMS, I got this:   DEC02_SYSTEM>ftp dec02) 220 DEC02 FTP Server (Version 4.1) Ready.t Connected to DEC02.  Name (DEC02:system): alden& 331 Username ALDEN requires a Password
 Password:  530 Login incorrect.% %FTP-E-LOGREJ, Login request rejectedn 425 Session is disconnected.
 DEC02_SYSTEM>h ======  5 I tried other user a/c, but they are able to connect.   " What is the cause of the problem??C Is there something like Unix's ftp.allow, ftp.deny stuffs active inl OpenVMS?        y Regards,  	 Netsurfern        ====R For any personal email replies, please remove " sentosa. " from my E-mail address.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 12:34:44 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>i/ Subject: Re: unable to ftp for certain user a/ciH Message-ID: <y4elvqavfv.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  E Check the remote system's ftpd log for the reason why it rejected the2G login. The password might be expired, the user disabled, network logins . disabled for this user, and some more reasons.   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 16:16:34 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)/ Subject: Re: unable to ftp for certain user a/cg, Message-ID: <99d8h2$pqd@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  p In article <50jjbts6247nqd4p1gdm60fc4cnrdqks1j@4ax.com>, Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com> writes: >-# >What is the cause of the problem??-  ? Check the user's login.com file.  It should have something liket  5 $  IF F$MODE() .NES. "INTERACTIVE" THEN GOTO ENDINTER   L in it.  (Commands that query the terminal will usually break noninteractive H logins.)  If they do have a login.com try temporarily removing it.  It'sJ also possible that sylogin.com has something toxic in it, but in that case1 it would have to be user specific in some manner.1  D >Is there something like Unix's ftp.allow, ftp.deny stuffs active in	 >OpenVMS?.  H Could be, but I'm betting on the login.com glitch as the source of your  problem.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu.? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech nJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 17:26:47 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EduD- Message-ID: <874rwm6tns.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  , "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> writes:  E > My Unix-memories are a bit rusty but aren't there also several Unix F > (or did I see this on a Linux system a few years ago) programs whereE > the behavior of the program depends upon the name given it ? ex andb > vi spring to mind.  D Your memory is fine. It is just not possible to define the behaviourE of a 'resonable' unit program. It can depend on shell, aliases, linkslE and how the kernel handles the environment variables. Options add yettE another round of 'fun', and to fill out, many use other utillities to D perform sub-functions, so the value of environment variables for theF path and library loading can also get you. There error messages can beD of no help at all, and can be in fact misleading. Hence the need forE a unix acolite to preach the true message to the heathern user who is E so sinfull as to think that 'file not found' when they try to print ac+ file refers to the file they wish to print!m   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 08:30:51 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler),Y Subject: Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Edue3 Message-ID: <oZUwO7dSLoB9@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  _ In article <99b367$1fu$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:m > F > Fair enough, I learned something about VMS today.  But, just for theJ > sake of completeness, there is no reason why a single Unix command couldF > not call multiple images depending on what it wants to do.  Could beM > there already are.  One of the nice things and disadvantages to abstractions > is you just don't know.f >   H I do know the opposite is true.  On ULTRIX at least, there was a commandG which was a link to another image.  The behaviour of the image depended H on argv[0] to it's C main function.  This is also true on VMS, PURGE andD DELETE (file) are implemented by DELETE.EXE (DELETE /SYMBOL is not).  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation-= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouppE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying8   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:44:20 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>f+ Subject: VMS ad runs in UK for second week.r8 Message-ID: <q7pjbtgpdc8cahc7agthrd3cde9fbj7sdu@4ax.com>  F The ad for VMS running in the UK appears again in this week's Computer? Weekly. I have reduced it to A4, scanned it in and posted it tod3 vmsnet.sources and alt.binaries.misc as a tif imagem   Alan -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:51:05 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>a& Subject: VMS source listings omittings- Message-ID: <99cov9$qrv$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>R   Hi  = The VMS source listings kit states that something is omitted.tD I know the why, but exactly which files/modules are omitted and what is their functionality?    Regards, Roar Throns   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:29:45 +0000 . From: Peter Jackson <peter.jackson@oracle.com>9 Subject: Re: [change topic] First VMS cluster in Europe ?.* Message-ID: <3AB9E229.4AC71951@oracle.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------4E536ED8623EB175D817B7F7* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitm   Carl Karcher wrote:b  : > In a previous article, steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: >SK > ->We had a cluster of two 780's plus HSC50 up and running in January '84.-C > ->That was at the EMBL (European Molecular Biology Laboratory) inbH > ->Heidelberg.  I was system manager.  IIRC that predated the launch of > ->the 750. > M > I worked on a 750 that was delivered (in the US) in spring '82 with VMS V2.o  D We got our first 750 in February or March 82 (in the UK). It ran VMS 2.something.   Peter1  & --------------4E536ED8623EB175D817B7F7- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;N  name="peter.jackson.vcf"a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit.+ Content-Description: Card for Peter Jacksono  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="peter.jackson.vcf"a   begin:vcard  n:Jackson;Petero tel;fax:0118 9249260 tel;work:0118 9249165o x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Oracle Corporation UK Ltd.
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 ' email;internet:peter.jackson@oracle.come fn:Peter Jackson	 end:vcarde  ( --------------4E536ED8623EB175D817B7F7--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:35:05 -0500i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)$ Subject: Re: [DCL] minute of the dayL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2203011135050001@user-2ive6g4.dialup.mindspring.com>  B In article <ly9u6.11265$7g.216756@wagner.videotron.net>, "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca> wrote:h    ! > Anyway, I had my 100% as usual..L > Ah! These were great times! We can't fool arounf like this anymore in real > life!r  J You could, if you worked for microsoft.  Little glitches like you describeD would not stop a product from shipping, and would probably get you a raise.   -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:23:08 +0100d, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.n0spam.nl>+ Subject: Re: [Q] Need Help on Backup Script > Message-ID: <3ab9a87d$0$2356$1a0eedbc@dreader2.news.xs4all.nl>  < You should put a $ SET NOON at the beginning of your script.  	 Bart Zorn   F "Ram Rajadhyaksha" <dev@null> wrote in message news:3ab96263$1@news...L > I am attempting to make a backup script that will backup 3 volumes. When IK > commit it to batch (SUBMIT MYBACKUPSCRIPT.COM), it always fails after thepG > second volume for some reason. The first time was probably because ithJ > encounted an open file and I had the ON ERROR set to branch. Other times theg/ > job simply terminates and I have no idea why.a >eD > Here's my script (drive names changed to protect the innocent :-): > , > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Starting Full Backup."
 > $ SHOW TIMEw > $ ALLOCATE MKAxxx: > $ INIT MKAxxx: MYLABEL > $ DEALLOCATE MKAxxx: > $ !g > $ ! Mount Tape > $ !  > $ MOUNT/FOR MKAxxx:eK > $ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LABEL=MYLABEL DKA1:[000000...]*.*;* MKAxxx:DKA1.SAV K > $ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LABEL=MYLABEL DKA2:[000000...]*.*;* MKAxxx:DKA2.SAVhK > $ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LABEL=MYLABEL DKA3:[000000...]*.*;* MKAxxx:DKA3.SAVB > $ DISMOUNT/UNLOAD MKAxxx:pB > $ SHOW TIME$OUTPUT "Full Backup Script Done. Check log to verify > completeness." > $ EXIT >rK > And the script terminates after the BACKUP command finishes on disk 2 at:k > 3 > BACKUP-S-COPIED, COPIED DKA2:[000000]VOLSET.SYS;1  >a9 > Disk 2 happens to be the live OpenVMS system disk, btw.l >p >s > Second question: >UL > After this thing fails, the machine prints out the WHOLE log to the systemG > printer. When you backup 100000 files, this is not an environmentallyg happytH > thing. Is there a way to turn that damn feature off and have it simply$ > record everything to a log file??? >t	 > Thanks.c >s > -- > Ram Rajadhyaksha > DLZ Corporationm > www.dlzcorp.com- >i >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:31:20 +0800a- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>o+ Subject: Re: [Q] Need Help on Backup Scriptl@ Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010322182448.009f1cc0@mail.bigpond.com>  3 At 09:24 PM 21/03/01 -0500, Ram Rajadhyaksha wrote:oK >I am attempting to make a backup script that will backup 3 volumes. When I J >commit it to batch (SUBMIT MYBACKUPSCRIPT.COM), it always fails after theF >second volume for some reason. The first time was probably because itM >encounted an open file and I had the ON ERROR set to branch. Other times theo. >job simply terminates and I have no idea why. >cC >Here's my script (drive names changed to protect the innocent :-):t >n+ >$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Starting Full Backup."t >$ SHOW TIME >$ ALLOCATE MKAxxx:i >$ INIT MKAxxx: MYLABELr >$ DEALLOCATE MKAxxx:i >$ ! >$ ! Mount Tapea >$ ! >$ MOUNT/FOR MKAxxx:J >$ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LABEL=MYLABEL DKA1:[000000...]*.*;* MKAxxx:DKA1.SAVJ >$ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LABEL=MYLABEL DKA2:[000000...]*.*;* MKAxxx:DKA2.SAVJ >$ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LABEL=MYLABEL DKA3:[000000...]*.*;* MKAxxx:DKA3.SAV >$ DISMOUNT/UNLOAD MKAxxx:A >$ SHOW TIME$OUTPUT "Full Backup Script Done. Check log to verifyw >completeness."  >$ EXIT  >DJ >And the script terminates after the BACKUP command finishes on disk 2 at: > 2 >BACKUP-S-COPIED, COPIED DKA2:[000000]VOLSET.SYS;1 >b8 >Disk 2 happens to be the live OpenVMS system disk, btw. >  >u >Second question:i >fK >After this thing fails, the machine prints out the WHOLE log to the systemnL >printer. When you backup 100000 files, this is not an environmentally happyG >thing. Is there a way to turn that damn feature off and have it simply # >record everything to a log file???M >o >Thanks. >  >--  >Ram Rajadhyaksha- >DLZ Corporation >www.dlzcorp.com    G In the DBS-DCL package (from the address below) is a GENERIC_BACKUP.COMRL procedure which will do what you want.  It will locate a tape device, unlessH you define one for it, it will find all your disks (assuming you want to7 backup all of them) and do an image backup of each one.aG (You will also need the DBS-LIBRARY ZIP file for the program that findshG all the disks and creates the required logicals.  We use this on all of-D our systems here.  You can also specify multiple tape devices shouldE the need arise.  It handles all the necessary errors and creates list$1 files of each save set and keeps a history file.)r- Just do @GENERIC_BACKUP and it does the rest.u Hope this helps.       Regards, Dave.  -- FI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comsI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/sI DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" LennonA   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:33:00 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>u+ Subject: Re: [Q] Need Help on Backup Scripti8 Message-ID: <l2ljbtcljfpb1e3fm97rjefr3esinle46p@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:58:43 -0500, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:0    @ >Aha!  You are probably getting file access conflict errors.  If= >you want to backup the system disk online (or any other diska? >with files open for write access on them), you need to specify-> >/ignore=interlock on the input disk.  BACKUP will do its best  C Also f you backup without /ignore=interlock BACKUP will lock thingsrD like SYSUAF.DAT which can be disastrous if something needs it during that brief window.   -- Alan   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.162 ************************