1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 23 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 163       Contents: Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news < Alpha or Vax has to check if a Sun server is still alive HOW@ RE: Alpha or Vax has to check if a Sun server is still alive HOW  Re: Boring the pants off the COV% Re: Can this be done through lexicals % Re: Can this be done through lexicals  Re: Changing DECwindows colors RE: changing IPs on Multinet Re: COE implementation details- Re: Communication to local PC ports from VMS. - Re: Communication to local PC ports from VMS. - Re: Communication to local PC ports from VMS. - Re: Communication to local PC ports from VMS. 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! 1 Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all ! , Re: DFU (was: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing)D Re: Dumb and dumber  (was RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? )9 Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS M Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) M Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) ProP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) ProP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) ProP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Pro9 Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library. 9 Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library. # Re: Info on low level driver access # Re: Is there extra logging in BIND?  listserv program Re: listserv program# Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions  Re: Support of old systems. Re: the Northeast Digital Systems Ebay Follies* UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?. Re: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?. Re: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?. Re: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?. Re: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?D Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re:D Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re:P Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Edu! Re: VMS source listings omittings . vpn clients can not telnet into a Vax or Alpha5 What part of Attunity Connect is included in OpenVMS?  Re: [DCL] minute of the day  [Q]Download site for Watch6?  Re: [Q]Download site for Watch6?  Re: [Q]Download site for Watch6?  RE: [Q]Download site for Watch6?  RE: [Q]Download site for Watch6?G Re: [Random non-DCL VMS quesion of the day] Need a clue about CLUE help   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:39:16 GMT , From: "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com>& Subject: Re: Alpha on ABC Evening news; Message-ID: <8Pxu6.13060$8O6.2534030@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   M In message <3AB2C782.A3FD717A@dnv.com>, Arne Bergseth <Arne.Bergseth@dnv.com>  wrote: >  >  > Martin Zinser wrote: >  > > H > > On a really related topic (triggered by PHA0:) - Anybody got further3 > > VAXtrek episodes, beyonde the ones available on  > > 7 > >  http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/fun/vaxtrek.htmlx  > >  > > > I just looked at the VAXtrek site, and unfortunately noticed' > that  The Picture could not be found. 5 > Also the pages for VAXtrek 1-3 seems to be missing.  >  > Arne Bergseth  > O I've got them on my site personal pages, which are rather screwed at the moment J but the humor link and then the VAXTrek links should work.  I'm not on the/ net while writing this so I can't double check.   * Well, I did get a chance to check so it's:  / http://www.epsilon3.com/home/humor/vaxtrek.html    All three eps are on this page.    --  6 Jay E. Morris, Epsilon 3 Productions, Web site hosting) http:\\www.epsilon3.com  e3p@epsilon3.ocm @ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:43:08 +0100 , From: "anonymous" <verledentijd@hotmail.com>E Subject: Alpha or Vax has to check if a Sun server is still alive HOW * Message-ID: <99dv5j$9g5$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  D I need to check every hour if a Sun station is still up and running.L And if not than the DCL procedure should page or sms or something like that. But how do I start,   H Should I try a ping every hour, or and rsh command or an rlogin command.K Has anyone done this before, and if so can you email me what you have done. @ I think it is not that difficult but I dont know where to start,   Many regards   Wim    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:36:44 -0800 ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> I Subject: RE: Alpha or Vax has to check if a Sun server is still alive HOW 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEAFCEAA.tom@kednos.com>   L Ping isn't good enough.  The machine can be almost dead and still respond to ping. I If running NFS why not deposit an incremented message in a known location  every xx minutes. L On the Sun side do this with a small script which is launched by cron at the appropriate J interval.  If no NFS really depends on what you have available for passing messages.  But a0 semaphore is the easiest and it is asynchronous.   > -----Original Message-----I > From: bull@node1c5bf.a2000.nl [mailto:bull@node1c5bf.a2000.nl]On Behalf  > Of anonymous( > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:43 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com G > Subject: Alpha or Vax has to check if a Sun server is still alive HOW  >  > F > I need to check every hour if a Sun station is still up and running.C > And if not than the DCL procedure should page or sms or something  > like that. > But how do I start,  > J > Should I try a ping every hour, or and rsh command or an rlogin command.B > Has anyone done this before, and if so can you email me what you > have done.B > I think it is not that difficult but I dont know where to start, >  > Many regards >  > Wim  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Mar 2001 06:11:40 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) ) Subject: Re: Boring the pants off the COV 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-3dsCH0Cmu5Pc@localhost>   B On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:44:38, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  wrote:   > [SNIP] > D > > >The UNIXification of VMS already started. That's why we have to, > > >express our concerns and fight against. > > L > > VMS cannot become "just another UN*X". VMS will not become "just anotherK > > UN*X". And, I'd agree with you when you say VMS should not become "just F > > another UN*X", but you're being rabid about this. Look upon COE asO > > expecting UN*X to raise their standards (or at least find some) rather than  > > VMS lowering its standard. > = > See above. And there even more problems to come. VMS should   > evolve in its natural own way.  > The trouble is Chris, that invites extinction. Unix is, or is 1 percieved to be, winning the evolutionary battle. E Perhaps the COE work should be seen as part of that evolution. Adapt   or die being the metaphor.  @ By the way , have you picked up the use of the word 'crap' from F British colleagues? We do have a terrible habit of saying things like E 'and all that crap'. We use it instead of 'stuff' or 'things' or the  E more correct collective term for what we are referring to. I used to  F do it (still do, sadly) until I realised that it was being taken as a F pejorative (herabsetzend) instead of the collective (sammelwort) that 2 I'd intended. I try to be more careful these days.    Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:19:50 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: Can this be done through lexicals0 Message-ID: <qfsu6.53$fB6.1856@news.cpqcorp.net>  i In article <985219422.703330@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>, "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@nospam.hotmail.com> writes: K :If I insert a DAT tape (DDSII/DDSIII) into a drive, is there a function or L :parameter i can read, either directly or via a DCL COM routine, where I can :get the tape capacity?   >   Nope.  Nor can OpenVMS know how much room is left on a tape.  M :Can the same be done for a DAT tape drive? This would be to determine if the I :drive was compatible with a tape. EG "Drive capacity is 4GB maximum tape  :capacity is 4GB"      Nope.   I :I'm sure there must be a function to read somewhere or some way of doing  :this, but I'm stuck.   G   You'd likely have to rummage around in the drive SCSI mode pages, at  J   best.  I'd tend to assume that the drive either doesn't know or doesn't $   communicate this up to the host...  L :The requirement has come from a customer that tried to use a 12GB tape in aI :4GB drive, I would like to put something in place (a warning maybe) that & :will alert him when it happens again.  B   Using a higher DDS-rated cartridge in an older DDS drive -- one C   without media recognition -- is a good way to encounter problems.   D   Either get the customer a DDSx-drive with equal or better support,E   or train the customer to avoid using higher-density media, or train 8   the customer to order their media via your service(s).  K :Using: Alpha 255/VMS 7.1 (can't remember the tape model number off the top  :of my head - sorry)  G   An AlphaStation 255 series running OpenVMS Alpha V7.1?  I'd encourage C   an upgrade to V7.1-2 or V7.2-1, given that these releases are far E   easier to install than the collection of ECOs recommended for V7.1.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:54:51 GMT 2 From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@nospam.hotmail.com>. Subject: Re: Can this be done through lexicals4 Message-ID: <985305137.829195@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>  F Thanks to all for your comments. Yes training would seem to be the wayK ahead. Unfortunately I cannot be there all the time with customers so these G things will crop up! [haven't we all experienced it at some point?] :-)    Thanks again for the help  Andy  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message * news:qfsu6.53$fB6.1856@news.cpqcorp.net...E > In article <985219422.703330@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>, "Andy Proctor" % <aproctor@nospam.hotmail.com> writes: J > :If I insert a DAT tape (DDSII/DDSIII) into a drive, is there a function orJ > :parameter i can read, either directly or via a DCL COM routine, where I can  > :get the tape capacity?  > @ >   Nope.  Nor can OpenVMS know how much room is left on a tape. > K > :Can the same be done for a DAT tape drive? This would be to determine if  the K > :drive was compatible with a tape. EG "Drive capacity is 4GB maximum tape  > :capacity is 4GB"  > 	 >   Nope.  > K > :I'm sure there must be a function to read somewhere or some way of doing  > :this, but I'm stuck.  > H >   You'd likely have to rummage around in the drive SCSI mode pages, atK >   best.  I'd tend to assume that the drive either doesn't know or doesn't & >   communicate this up to the host... > L > :The requirement has come from a customer that tried to use a 12GB tape in a K > :4GB drive, I would like to put something in place (a warning maybe) that ( > :will alert him when it happens again. > C >   Using a higher DDS-rated cartridge in an older DDS drive -- one E >   without media recognition -- is a good way to encounter problems.  > F >   Either get the customer a DDSx-drive with equal or better support,G >   or train the customer to avoid using higher-density media, or train : >   the customer to order their media via your service(s). > I > :Using: Alpha 255/VMS 7.1 (can't remember the tape model number off the  top  > :of my head - sorry) > I >   An AlphaStation 255 series running OpenVMS Alpha V7.1?  I'd encourage E >   an upgrade to V7.1-2 or V7.2-1, given that these releases are far G >   easier to install than the collection of ECOs recommended for V7.1.  > ( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 03:25:49 +0100 + From: Arne Bergseth <Arne.Bergseth@dnv.com> ' Subject: Re: Changing DECwindows colors ' Message-ID: <3ABAB42D.C9802601@dnv.com>    Tom Linden wrote:    > What is the trick?  D Running VMS 6.1 with DECwindows Motif and using the options pulldownB menu in the session manager box cause the file DECW$SMB_WINDOW.DATK to be updated, and the window colors to be changed after logging out and in  again. But,* hand editing DECW$TERMINAL.DAT  to insert:! DECW$TERMINAL*background:    Pink / gives me a different colour to DECterm windows.   J I believe there is a number of  DECW$something.DAT files which may contain+ color specifications overriding each other.   
 Arne Bergseth    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:59:30 -0800 ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: RE: changing IPs on Multinet 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEAACEAA.tom@kednos.com>   D FWIW and if anyone else is interested, after the HOST_TABLE COMPILE,, one more step before restarting server, viz. @MULTINET:INSTALL_DATABASES    and then/ @MULTINET:START_SERVER  (instead of rebooting!)   K BTW the version that I have crashes and dump registers when you try to give  itH a comma separate list of DNS.  The way to get around this is to edit the fileH NETWORK_DEVICES.CONFIGURATION by hand making (forget the comment, DO NOTI EDIT ...) the entries for all the (comma separated) DNS entires you want, - and then running CONFIG/MENU and saving again      > -----Original Message-----) > From: Jon [mailto:jsmyth69@hotmail.com] ( > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 6:20 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > Subject: Re: changing IPs on Multinet  >  > D > I would have set default to the Multinet dir and re run the config
 > program: >  >  $ SET DEF MULTINET  >  $ @CONFIG >  > $ > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: > C > >Am running Multinet 3.3 on 6.2 Alpha, and had to change our IPs.  >  I did the > >obvious things  > >1.  Edited hosts.local F > >2.  ran MULTINET CONFIG/MENU  to change the gateway and DNS entries > >3.  did HOST_TABLE COMPILE J > >3.  rebooted (couldn't figure out how to shutdown or restart MULTINET ) > >  > > G > >When running MULTINET CHECK  I get a warning that there is a version   > >mismatchh on NETWORK_DATABASE > >which is probably OK  > > < > >when I try to telnet to one of our other machines it says > trying... with the
 > >old IP? > >  > >What have I missed? > >  > >Tom   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:13:45 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> ' Subject: Re: COE implementation details 3 Message-ID: <3ABA5CF9.CD7B1B6F@applied-synergy.com>    Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > K > As I understand it, the SET VOLUME changes the system's interpretation of L > links/aliases, not the on-disk data structures. An interesting question isL > whether the link count is maintained even if the "alias" mode is selected.K > I don't think that is possible in all cases, in fact, and I wonder how it N > is handled in the "hard link" mode - one scenario, for instance, is removingL > an alias/a hard link for which the actual owner has changed the protectionI > such that the linker no longer is allowed to update the reference count 0 > because the file is now inaccessible to her...  B If the "link count" is part of the file system, whether or not the7 linker has privileges to the target file is irrelevant.s  D The file system has full privileges and authority to modify anything! needed to maintain its integrity.p  H For example, when disk blocks are allocated to a file, the user does notF normally have privileges to modify BITMAP.SYS and INDEXF.SYS, but they are modified all the same.  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------c$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com l   Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:22:28 -0000y- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)k6 Subject: Re: Communication to local PC ports from VMS.. Message-ID: <tbkr8kptv38bf@news.supernews.com>  . olekk@kki.net.pl (Olek Koodziejczyk) wrote in <99denm$r0h$1@news.tpi.pl>:   I >Is possibility communication with local PC computer ports "COM" from VMS 6 >? I connecting via terminal program to VMS (from PC). >u >Olek KolodziejczykN >E >e >?   Yes.  L You could log in as a normal user, or write a program on the VMS that takes J ownership of the particular port, allowing you create a link on which you J can transfer data in any manner you wish.  In this second case, I believe K you would need to look at the Terminal Driver in the OpenVMS documentation i set.   ws   -- L1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>P   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 21:27:22 GMT0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)6 Subject: Re: Communication to local PC ports from VMS.5 Message-ID: <99dqnq$d7u$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>e  . In article <tbkr8kptv38bf@news.supernews.com>,. Warren Spencer <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote:0 : olekk@kki.net.pl (Olek Koodziejczyk) wrote in : <99denm$r0h$1@news.tpi.pl>: K : >Is possibility communication with local PC computer ports "COM" from VMSi8 : >? I connecting via terminal program to VMS (from PC). : >tL : ownership of the particular port, allowing you create a link on which you L : can transfer data in any manner you wish.  In this second case, I believe M : you would need to look at the Terminal Driver in the OpenVMS documentation s : set. : I No need to write programs for this, you can use the ones that are already  there:  !   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/U   - Franks   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:27:58 GMTw5 From: danco@cx48228-c.escnd1.sdca.home.com (Dan Cook) 6 Subject: Re: Communication to local PC ports from VMS.- Message-ID: <slrn9bkvef.tk4.danco@pebble.org>   N On 22 Mar 2001 21:27:22 GMT, Frank da Cruz <fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> wrote:  J >No need to write programs for this, you can use the ones that are already >there:D >l" >  http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/  , $ SET HOST/DTE also works and is "built-in."   - Dan    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:39:25 GMT-2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)6 Subject: Re: Communication to local PC ports from VMS.0 Message-ID: <N2wu6.70$fB6.2763@news.cpqcorp.net>  V In article <99denm$r0h$1@news.tpi.pl>, "Olek Koodziejczyk" <olekk@kki.net.pl> writes:M :Is possibility communication with local PC computer ports "COM" from VMS ? In2 :connecting via terminal program to VMS (from PC).  K   Others have answered the direct question -- yes, OpenVMS can communicate  J   via its COM port (Alpha systems tend to have COM ports), and PC systems J   can communicate via the PC COM port to an OpenVMS serial port.  Pinouts    are in the OpenVMS FAQ.e  L   Serial communications connections tend to be transient and point-to-point J   connections, and are typically only for low-speed connections.  One suchH   example is the use of a PC terminal emulator as the terminal connected(   to a VAX or Alpha console serial port.  C   If you want functions other than terminal emulation for a consolelG   serial port, you will also want to consider the use of IP or similar -G   network protocol to communicate, as you will have far more bandwidth sB   over an IP connection via Ethernet than via a serial (COM port) A   connection, and as you will have direct access to a variety of jD   protocols.  As you become comfortable with IP applications and IP J   networking, you can also start using SMB protocols (PATHWORKS, Advanced 2   Server, or Samba) for PC file services and such.  I   As you have not included any details on the OpenVMS system and version vK   nor any background on what problem(s) you wish to solve, it is difficult rF   to provide more specific details on which adapter(s) or pinouts you F   might need, nor details on what other options or alternatives might H   be available to you.  (Also please remember that a terse question may J   not get you the answer to the intended problem, nor is a terse question E   nearly as likely to get you alternative approaches to the problem.)2  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 19:20:52 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)u: Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !, Message-ID: <99djak$1836$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ) In article <3AB9DECC.44CCC4EF@Omond.net>,e"  Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: |>@ |> Dan, I think that's a little harsh on Bill.  He does admit to> |> being wrong wrt DECnet/proprietariness (not too many people: |> willing to admit to being wrong in Usenet discussions).  < Thank you for the compliment,  I don't claim to be an expert% on everything, Only some things.  :-)r   |> uA |> However, I do think that it does show Bill to be rather naievedC |> about VMS's true capabilities.  Begs the question: how many morea? |> of his preconceptions might prove to be without foundation ?  |> oB |> I suspect I know the answer will be quite a few (hardlinks etc. |> etc.)  A I have siad from the beginning that I have only been Sys AdminingwC VMS for a little more than a year and that is on a system that sees-? very little use.  But I think it also proves my biggest point. tB Because of this lack of experience I have as much trouble with VMSA as most of the people here have with Unix.  One isn't necessarily A easier than the other, just different.  One learns that which one A applies themselves to. The big question here seems to be will VMSrD continue to be around (here in particular and everywhere in general)@ long enough for me to become as experienced with it as I am withA Unix.  I would like to think so, but with some of the attitudes IaC see here, I have my doubts.  It doesn't bode well if the people whoaD most claim to support it are satisfied to see it stay hidden in it's niche.    ? I have often argued for a reasonable and functional educational B program.  And for someone, anyone, to get behind it an push.  ThisA has usually been met with arguments about why a) it isn't needed,tB b) the existing one is good enough, c) the schools should foot the= bill for it.  This is unrealistc and very unproductive.  Why?t Let's take them in order:d>   a)  if VMS doesn't become better known and understood at the@       earliest level of education possible, people (who by their@       very nature abhor change) are not going to be converted atA       a latter date.  Everyone (at least I think) will admit thatm?       it was through their exposure to BSD in schools that Unixy3       won over this entire generation of DP people.o  =   b)  It has been pointed out by numerous people here who are @       involved in education that the current program is unusableA       for classroom or lab use.  If you add up all of the reasons1?       given by everyone who commented, the list is really quite @       impressive.  People outside of education not understanding?       what the problems are is not going to fix it.  Wether youaB       understand the reasons or not, you must understand that the A       program as it stands will not get a single VMS machine intor=       a classroom or lab and thus will result in no exposure.   <   c)  Considering that schools are doing just fine right now?       without any VMS presence, what do people here think wouldn@       possibly possess an educational institute to make them payB       even a penny for something they can't possibly place a valueC       on as in most cases, they don't even know of it's existence??u?       The exposure starts at the level above the students.  ThebA       professors who teach the classes, the deans who approve theeA       classes and even the administrators who approve the expend-e@       itures for the classes all have to be convinced first.  AtA       least at this point in time there are still a few people in @       education (not meaning to blow my own horn) willing to at A       least drop hints and, yes, put in the extra time outside of D       their regular jobs to try to get VMS back into the educationalA       arena.  Once these people are gone, the fight will get even A       harder and the obstacles may become insumountable.  Look atrC       the readership here.  We have one list member who while stillrE       vocal at least claims that he has given up the fight.  AlthoughgB       most may not have missed him or even noticed his departure, C       there was another here who I had discussions with both on andVA       off the list who was trying very hard to prod people in theiC       right direction.  I have not seen anything from him in monthstC       and can only assume he too has abandoned the fight.  How longi@       can VMS go on if it is loosing it's strongest supporters??  E Enough.  I will get down of the soapbox and relinquish to others more-@ eloquent than I.  But let's hope there is more in the works thanD impassioned speeches.  We get them from congress and we all know how much they accomplish.-   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:03:46 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman): Subject: Re: DECnet a proprietary protocol ?  Not at all !0 Message-ID: <mxvu6.69$fB6.2589@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <87lmpx4yb3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  H :If anyone wants the PhIV specs, and can't find them, I can mail a copy.  H   As was cited earlier in this thread, the DECnet Phase IV architecture H   documentation files are available on a Compaq FTP server, and the URL B   for these documents is explicitly referenced in the OpenVMS FAQ.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Mar 2001 00:46:07 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)5 Subject: Re: DFU (was: [Q] skip [vms$common] parsing)a* Message-ID: <3aba8ebf$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  U In article <3AB705DD.45503702@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:cP >The criminal system manager left the boat five months ago with the freeware CD.Q >Why do you imagine they ask an oldtimmer like me to come from Toulouse France to - >change a few DCL lines at SwissCom Bern? :-)n  > Maybe, because they didn't want to show me the lovely Schwyz ? Or they couldn't afford me ? :-)))    -- r< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888,< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:09:53 +0100e) From: Brass Christof <brass@infopuls.com>rM Subject: Re: Dumb and dumber  (was RE: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? ) 6 Message-ID: <20010322230953.A3438@mozart.infopuls.com>  : On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 08:39:34AM -0500, Dan Allen wrote: >=20F >  Come on guys, give this a rest. You can always find "a" job that i= s easier in your command@ >  set/OS of choice. Heh Bill, what's the Unix equivalent of :-) >=20D > =09$ del/since=3D"01-Jan-1971 00:00:00.00"/backup sys$login:*.*;*= =20n >=20F > > > |> >And a 50-100 line "small (recursive) command procedure" is = simpler than
 > > > |> >< > > > |> >     "find . -type f -exec rm -f {} \; ; rm -rf *"
 > > > |> > > > > |> >in what way??s > > >=20F > > > Maybe you didn't, but the general gist of the thread here has b= eenuF > > > that everything is sipler on VMS as compared to Unix.  I can re= moveF > > > the tree with two commands.  No 50-100 line shell script is nec= essary.w > > >=20
 > > > bill > > >=20 > > > --F > > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  T= hree wolvesaF > > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for di= nner.v  > > > University of Scranton   |D > > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> > >=20  C There is a base for cov: VMS is best because of its elegance and=20aB consistency as result from its design goals to be the opposite of= =20cB UNIX crap. The consequence of the technical merits are lowest TCO= =20eB which comes from "easy to learn", "safe to practice", "good style= =20 C of guidlines how to solve things" a.s.o.. If anyone doesn't agree:=T =20A	 stay out.   C This doesn't mean that some tasks are simpler or more efficient on=e =20 C other OSs; this simply doesn't matter because in the whole picture=o =20eC VMS wins by a factor of more than 2. To discuss examples of how to=  =20RD solve trivial tasks on all OSs doesn't contribute to the discussion= =20.C of technical quality wrt concepts, architecture and implementation=n =20n quality.  B This doesn't mean there isnt' room for improvement or that things= =20 A can't go wrong with VMS (even a Rolls-Royce can badly be driven).2  C This also doesn't mean that the market share and the acceptance is=i =20 C necessarily equivalent to its technical quality. The app base is=20 B small and on the marketing and business strategy side many things= =20o can and should be done.   C Technically other OSs should be observed and if there is something=o =20sC worth to incorporate: VMS should go ahead and do it in its own way.2  B There is no need for another UNIX crap. There is no need for UNIX= =20dB crap apps on VMS. If a company=A0wants to do business with high=20A quality customers in the VMS market, the company should invest=20T0 in porting or developing an appropriate VMS app.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:45:43 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>iB Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3ABA8EA7.9CE38FD3@infopuls.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > Z > In article <3AB940D9.49D8D588@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > >t: > > Please Bob, stop it. I already insulted Bill enough. I@ > > personally think he is not the type of person who is able to= > > change his mind because of reason. This isn't meant as ana > > insult!o > J > I really didn't quite mean that to come across in an insulting tone, but. > I realize it could be interpretted that way. > J > I think we've opened Bill's eyes to a few possibilities after a long andJ > much overblown thread.  I try not to get trapped into these things but IF > do have an intollerance for letting technically erroneous statements' > masquerade as differences of opinion.r > I > I know from previous threads that Bill and I will never see eye to eye.b- > As long as we're on solid ground that's OK.t > I > As for his opinions on UNIX, I, too some times find UNIX usefull.  When I > I got my first 486 the first thing I did was put Linux on it.  I always D > figured I'd have a UNIX system at home someday and just recently I@ > helped my son put Linux on his Mac (I'll keep Mac OS on mine). > F > But I'll keep pushing for the right tool for the job, and on the job > that's often VMS.- > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationc? > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group-G >                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingr  . Great! Especially the point with "masquerade".@ There is no problem with UNIX for people who like it. But in cov; I would like to have a common ground that in the area where ? taste or opinion only makes the difference we agree to like thec VMS way.  ? I know the problem of beeing convinced as having the true pointn@ of view. But I have several years of UNIX/Linux experience which2 makes me think that I know what I'm talking about.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:27:38 +0000o) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>rV Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram), Message-ID: <3ABA987A.50EC6900@infopuls.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:n > H > > Okay then - as far as I understood the concept is the same: offeringG > > the Windoze API on the host platform. Maybe the licence requirement-- > > comes from a contract between SUN and M$.2 > G > This brings up an interesting point. I have a linux box, that used touA > run NT4. So, it *is* licenced for windows! And, from what I cansF > understand from the PC retail people I know, most every machine goesD > out the door with a gateshit licence of some sort. Adding Linux or= > BSD, or for that matter, VMS would not change that licence.  >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda..B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  @ If a box has an automatically issued licence depends nowadays on; the country. In Germany M$ lost a process against a companye? which refused to pay for boxes sold with OS/2. But there a tonst< of unused M$ licences around not only for OSs. And last year@ there has been an event of Linux people at Redmond who wanted M$= to pay them back the licence fees for the boxes now operatingm Linux.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:36:22 +0000s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>aV Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram)+ Message-ID: <3ABA9A86.E75BFE9@infopuls.com>h   Brian Wheeler wrote: > . > In article <3AB925E1.1C7BA213@infopuls.com>,5 >         Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:- > > Brian Wheeler wrote: > >>   [SNIP]   > >1/ > >> > WINE requires some sort of Windows also.a > >>M > >> No, it does not.  It is a reimplementation of windows.  Original windows K > >> code is only required if you're emulating a windows binary....and only,/ > >> then if the WINE libraries are incomplete.  > >oD > > Yup. Learned that in between. What do you mean with "emulating aC > > windows binary"? Are talking about a genuine M$ tool that comesv > > with Windoze like the CLI? > O > On x86 machines you can run a windows .exe file as if it were native, becausepI > of environment emulation routines (mainly LDT and GDT tinkering) in the Q > kernel.  The wine version of the dlls will be loaded unless they are overriddencF > (by the user) to use the native windows ones, or if there is no wine# > equivalent (such as vbrunx00.dll)n  ? Sorry, don't understand that. Is WINE part of the Linux kernel? = What does it mean "as if it were native"? Can you install the > original Windoze DLLs or leave the WINE versions of these DLLs	 in place?i  " > >> > AFAIK from a sound PR eventM > >> > organised by SUN to promote Solaris/386 you even have to buy a WindowsvK > >> > licence - though I'm not sure about this because this was about 1990lL > >> > or even earlier. One of the best technical PR events I ever met. OnlyP > >> > a few SUN people but highly qualified, sound answers, very good concepts. > >> > Alas UNIX crap ...i > >>/ > >> WABI required a windows license, not Wine.m > >o? > > Okay then - as far as I understood the concept is the same:tD > > offering the Windoze API on the host platform. Maybe the licence9 > > requirement comes from a contract between SUN and M$.i > O > WABI does binary emulation _only_.  Wine does binary emulation _and_ providesl7 > a source API to provide building native applications.l  = What is a source API? If I have the header files of Windoze I @ can write an application for WABI because all other Windoze apps> that run under WABI are written that way. What is specifically5 needed for building native ("native" wrt what?) apps?e   > Brian-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:55:00 +0000F) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>-Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Prof, Message-ID: <3ABA90D4.28B91733@infopuls.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > n > In article <4Py5Os95U9V=AErH3PPNb55kFc8D@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@sasSPAMITUPTHEZZZ.com> writes: > >DA > > I rarely use aliases that much, so I don't know the answer to8: > > the following question: can alias pount across mounted: > > devices?  Unix will allow this -- probably because the? > > implementation of the Unix file systems pretty much requirew > > that ability.p > >r > G > Aliases and hard links won't, but it looks like soft links are cominguB > with COE and that's what UNIX uses to point across mount points. > J > I wonder if we're getting mount points with COE?  Or just simulating all- > device names in / like the porting library?o > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione? > NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group)G >                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingM  > There are two features I would like to see on VMS (but only if? no one disagrees and only if it can fit into VMS style): beyondt? the ODS-5 way of treating case of filenames ("a" is "A" but theV: initial chosen case will retained) I would like to see the? ability to have full case sensitivity. The second thing I woulda@ like to see is the ability to organise the whole filesystem as a0 tree (with one root). Is this against VMS style?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:56:27 +0000n) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>kY Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Proo, Message-ID: <3ABA912B.582FA578@infopuls.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:e > 2 > "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si> writes: >  > > Tryn > >a( > > $ backup/delete/nolog [...]*.*;* nl: > 9 > Better, BACKUP/NOCRC/GROUP=0/DELETE <VICTIM> NLA0:./SAVl >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.rB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  ; Will this also remove all directories? I remember sometimes @ having the directories left. I normally use backup to move files  to retain the modification date.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:07:22 +0000w) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Proe, Message-ID: <3ABA93BA.C5EC0C15@infopuls.com>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:o > : > > This isn't true. I always insist in technical analysisB > > and so far nobody was able to show technically where UNIX crap! > > and its UNIX crap apps excel.uA > > To conclude this: there isn't any of my points which has beenW > > proven wrong.n >  > Bullshit.o   You are missing the point.  F > To a standard-conforming Fortran(77,90,95,...), Ada, C, C++, Pascal,I > ... program, it is for all practical purposes indistinguishable whether)I > they run on VMS, OS/390, any Unix variant, any Win32 variant. If you're    This is really BS!  H > using a widely-ported GUI library such a Qt, Interacter or Citrix, youK > can have an application that interacts with the user in a natural way forvJ > the particular platform and never know the difference. At the same time,  > This is only for GUI part. Is there Qt on VMS? What about RMS?: Is this a function of Qt? Do you know what you are talking& about? Do you ev. even like UNIX crap?  G > it is possible to mis-use the langauge(s) and produce buggy software,o > but then, what's new?   ? Do you know about the UNIX crap "philosophy"? No? Then read the @ appropriate books, study the UNIX crap API, the UNIX crap shells CLI aso.  J > There is a point that for some types of applications, notably those withL > real-time or multi-user requirements, can be more or less easy and more orJ > less safe to implement on one or the other system, but that has not been > your argument.  : We aren't in the kindergarten. A little bit of thinking by4 himelf/herself is necessary for the inclined reader.  N > But there can be no argument that it is beneficial for VMS to make availableI > to it boatloads of software - you get to decide in each individual casesP > whether you need and want it, and whether you are satisfied with its quality -N > that weren't previously available just because of minor variations in syntaxP > only (in many cases), performance tuning, or slightly different semantics (theK > basis, apparently, of much of the current COE work). You would rather re-o2 > invent the wheel than re-use the work of others? > 
 >         Jan'  6 Obviously you completely missed the discussion and the; arguments. Sad enough. But the worst is that you missed the @ point about the very small probability of the COE crap in really? leading to a situation where we have this imaginary boatload of|5 SW on VMS compared to the likelihood of damaging VMS.o  ? Because I don't like the UNIX crap attitude of letting each apps' re-inventing the wheel(s) I prefer VMS.-   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 17:32:04 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMSEducationalProgram) Pro * Message-ID: <99duh4$jhb$1@lisa.gemair.com>  , In article <3AB956EB.8158F3A7@infopuls.com>,+ Christof Brass  <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:t >Bill Gunshannon wrote:c >>  O >> In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0BDD54B5@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>,u1 >>  Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes:r" >> |> > -----Original Message-----8 >> |> > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com] >> |>-B >> |> > But why the hell isn't it possible to simply pipe the find >> |> > result into rm?s >> |>ON >> |> It is possible to do, depending on your shell, of course, something like >> |> this:- >> |>-' >> |> rm -f `find . -name foo\* -print`f >> |>p3 >> |> This will have the desired affect, I believe.- >> -J >> A more important question is why would you want to make "find" generateJ >> output to pipe into "rm" when "find" is already capable of calling "rm"C >> directly with the filenames as a parameter in the proper place??5 >47 >Because this would allow using pipe as a general mean.r= >Unfortunately UNIX again breaks its own rules it pretends toa >live up to. >a   Oh?  What rule is this?  h  N >> |>                                                The simple answer for theK >> |> reason that you can't pipe things into rm is that rm doesn't read itslQ >> |> standard input looking for that kind of thing. :)  Why doesn't it?  I don'tER >> |> know.  Could be because they waited until they were about to fill a disk up,* >> |> and threw it together in a hurry. :) >>  C >> Right, and my VAXStation has no sound support because all of them >> DEC engineers were deaf. :-)  >> -I >> Lots of Unix commands don't take parameter information from the stdin. 7 >> Usually because it makes no sense to do it that way.n >u@ >Sorry? Where is the "UNIX is simple and the programs a small to@ >be used like mosaic pieces" metaphore? Why do I have to learn aA >different way to combine find and rm instead of using the highlyv >applaused UNIX pipe system? >d  > This is such nonsense.  I really don't want to get involved inC this thread, really.  You've been jumping up and down and screaming"C about how Unix is crap, without really providing real reasons, just># mostly strawmen like the one above.)  @ The C standard dictates how programs take arguments from command@ lines.  Part of the "UNIX is simple" paradigm is that you don't ? bloat programs with a lot of options that are rarely used (likea? reading files to delete from command lines).  Sometimes, peoples@ have written kitchen-sink implementations of some utilities that@ bloat them up, but this is not an indictment on UNIX as a whole,& just of the people who have done this.  = Unix is simple, and there is a simple way to send output fromeJ a pipe to work as command parameters.  xargs allows you to convert input, 2 in a very flexible manner, to command arguments.    B >> Question: Can you pipe a list of filenames into DELETE on VMS?? >eA >It's not necessary because delete offers the necessary selection ( >criteria. VMS works fine without pipes. >i  A Oh?  Delete offers the "necessary selection criteria"?  Let's saynA I wanted to perform the very commonly requested deleting files in"< reverse order?  How do I do that with delete?  In Unix it's:   	ls -r1 | xargs rm  = Or, say I want to delete empty .tmp files, which is somethings I've wanted to do.   That's:r  7 	ls -s1 *.tmp |  awk '/^ *0 / { print $2 };' | xargs rmp  H So, I must be missing the options on DEL that provides an way to do the 
 above easily..  F Believe me, I'm no great advocate of UNIX everywhere, but I do believeL that it has a lot of very useful things and I look forward to an integrationG of some of those more things into VMS.  You can just go about screamingrF at the top of your lungs "IT's ALL CRAP", but experience has taught me
 otherwise.  K I've benefitted greatly from DCL_PATH and PIPE already, more of the best ofa( the UNIX world can only be a good thing.  G It's funny, my friends who only use UNIX think I'm an OpenVMS bigot andt4 those who only use OpenVMS think I'm a UNIX bigot.     >> billn >> u >> --oM >> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves2G >> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >> University of Scranton   |UA >> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>c   -Jordan Hendersonb jordan@greenapple.comu   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 14:04:14 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer)-B Subject: Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library.1 Message-ID: <7CCaiLf9nR1j@cartman.ourservers.net>j  W In article <3ABA1D8B.ED8E17F6@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:F > Can you post the output of:  > & > $ SHOW LOGICAL VMS_FILENAME_CONTROLS > Q > From both the SYSTEM account when it works and from the "other" account when iti > doesn't work.l >   . From the SYSTEM account where it IS working...  % 	$ SHOW LOGICAL VMS_FILENAME_CONTROLSeF 	%SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name VMS_FILENAME_CONTROLS 	$ e  + From MY account, where it is NOT working...n  % 	$ SHOW LOGICAL VMS_FILENAME_CONTROLSdF 	%SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name VMS_FILENAME_CONTROLS 	$  H The logical VMS_JACKETS that I have defined for the shareable library is< defined as "/SYSTEM/EXEC" and can be seen from all accounts.  t -- e  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:27:23 GMTc From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com B Subject: Re: HELP!!! Strange Problem With OpenVMS Porting Library.8 Message-ID: <iu8lbtc23c9162602pbvhcldt6n0hq1g1r@4ax.com>  B On 21 Mar 2001 23:53:50 EST, byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) wrote:  D >The problem is, when I go to test it, if I'm logged into the SYSTEMC >account, everything works and it handles Unix file/directory names 
 >properly. >n >But...o >mI >If I'm in NON-SYSTEM account, it dosnen't handle the Unix file/directory G >names properly and I get errors on the file names.  Even if I run from F >an account that has ALL the privs (like a copy of the system account) >it won't work properly.  ! other things to look for are any  @ difference in environment.  (cli symbols, logicals, default dir)  # f.ex., when I install perl modules,9  I've had best luck not using my * daily working account, but another account, that after login, has the barest minimim of - cli symbols, and  process/job/group logicals.e (also logged in w/ /NOCOMMAND)  - otherwise, I get snakebit by process logicalsn+ I might have set up, and not remembered to  7 delete before the install,   LIB:, TMP:, and so on ....     3 lastly, maybe you'd tried this already, but if not:    $ set watch/class=ALL FILE a ... 9  insert testing here under the priv'ed non-system accounth ...o $ set watch/class=NONE  FILE h     e.g. :   define syntax SET_WATCHr    image SETWATCHt    parameter P1, label=OPTIONh       value (required)2    parameter P2, label=WATCH_OPTION, prompt="What")       value (required,type=WATCH_OPTIONS)     qualifier CLASS.       value (required,list,type=WATCH_CLASSES)    disallow not CLASS0   define type WATCH_OPTIONSe    keyword FILEa   define type WATCH_CLASSESa    keyword ALL, negatablen     keyword ATTRIBUTES, negatable&    keyword CONTROL_FUNCTION, negatable*    keyword DIRECTORY_OPERATIONS, negatable    keyword DUMP, negatable    keyword ATTACHED, negatable$    keyword MAJOR_FUNCTION, negatable    keyword NONEL&    keyword QUOTA_OPERATIONS, negatable     keyword PROTECTION, negatable   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:12:27 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: Info on low level driver access0 Message-ID: <v8su6.52$fB6.1856@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <87pufa7rz1.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:5 :hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: H :I want to get NTP on VMS to be the BEST. And to do it for zero dollars.H :Well, zero if you have a GPS/atomic clock lying around doing nothing :)  E   Various GPS receivers can and do provide a text interface for time.a  G :On each second, you get a TTL pulse. I want to drop that onto the chip.C :console and get the interupt, save the current clock, and possibly G :cycle counter and system state, togle the transmit line, then hand off = :the a driver at lower IPL to hand the data out to the code. v  H   And what makes you think (no offense intended) you can do better than /   the existing IPL22 clock interrupt mechanism?e  E :This can then do the NTP calcs at the systems leasure, but sould be eG :capable of a few nSec acurracy relative to the reference clock pulses.d  F   So you do not want to tie more directly into the existing IPL22 (or :   IPL24 on certain older systems) clock interrupt routine?  F :So, how do I steal the console interupt in PAL mode? No, I don't want9 :to wait for the PAL code to hand it up the kernel level.L  #   With your own PALcode, of course.L   :You did ask...   D   Yes, I did ask.  I would not tie into the clock interrupts for theH   "best" time, since the interval clock interrupts are officially rated I   for a minimum of 50ppm accuracy.  I would thus tend to use an external fJ   time source (GPIB interface, GPS, etc) if you require better than 50ppm.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:01:02 -0500a2 From: Jason Fountain <jasonfountain@earthlink.net>, Subject: Re: Is there extra logging in BIND?- Message-ID: <3ABA59FE.7268537B@earthlink.net>d  - It' there, you just have to look really hard.   M You can get what you're asking for by adding the following to TCPIP$BIND.CONFc  	 logging {f(         channel my_log_queries_channel {(                 file "my_query_log.txt";                 severity debug;13                 print-time yes;          //optionals2                 print-severity yes;     //optional0                 print-category yes;   //optional
         };  5         category queries { my_log_queries_channel; };  };  N You'll need to restart the BIND server after adding this.  Then you'll need to$ shut it down again to read the file.   -jason     Dave Pampreen wrote:  L > I have had a request to get extra info from BIND.  Is it possible to get aH > log of the requests, the ip address of the machine requesting, and the, > ip/node being translated.  Something like: >eF > node MYPC.DOMAIN.COM requests WWW.SOMEWHEREONTHEWEB.COM 192.12.34.56 >t2 > I'm running VMS 7.2-1 with TCP/IP Services V5.0A >'4 > I've looked in the DOC's and haven't foudn it yet. >o > Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:56:16 GMTm- From: "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com>- Subject: listserv program-= Message-ID: <Qaxu6.90273$W05.17338240@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>   L Is there a listserv program which runs on Alpha OpenVMS whcih users can view$ old messages (archives) via the web?   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 03:49:14 GMTe From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com  Subject: Re: listserv programa8 Message-ID: <jghlbtop5s6ar203b4c6m5dqfnh9mh8jjm@4ax.com>  1 On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:56:16 GMT, "Dave Pampreen"V <davepampreen@home.com> wrote:  M >Is there a listserv program which runs on Alpha OpenVMS whcih users can viewh% >old messages (archives) via the web?y >  >Davee   perhaps look at :     http://netwinsite.com/index.html  ) I haven't looked to see how many of their-' products have vms kits for eval dnload, 0 but at least one does, DNEWS, their NNTP server.  , ftp://ftp.netwinsite.com/pub/dnews/vms/alpha   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:42:04 GMT52 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions0 Message-ID: <gAsu6.54$fB6.1815@news.cpqcorp.net>  X In article <3AB9592B.2ECA46B9@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: :Peter Weaver wrote:I :> Basically I don't think any of the work the VMS group is doing for COE B :> is going to make any major changes to VMS unless you enable it. :s= :If this is really true I would be very happy. BTW I read thee? :other thread and the section from the manual you posted there.   H   OpenVMS Engineering has and has had a long-term core goal of ensuring I   the upward-compatibility of user-mode application code.  Somewhat more  G   specifically, the upward-compatibility of user-mode application code jF   that is using documented interfaces and that is lacking latent bugs.  E   Otherwise, why would we we still have and still use a VAX/VMS V1.0 uC   user-mode image in our current OpenVMS VAX regression test suite?   >   Otherwise, why did did we bother to leave the defaults aloneA   and add the parse style commands for ODS-5 extended file names?n  E   Otherwise, why did did we bother to continue to provide VMSRTL.EXE  5   when we broke it up into multiple shareable images?h  C   Otherwise, why did did we bother to continue to provide a virtualnG   addressing environment compatible with OpenVMS VAX 32-bit addressing cC   and OpenVMS Alpha 32-bit pre-V7.0 support with the implementationy7   of 64-bit addressing in OpenVMS Alpha V7.0 and later?e  =   Otherwise, why did did we bother to continue to provide thec*   VAXCRTL after Compaq C became available?     Otherwise...  F   DII COE has NOT and will NOT change this central compatibility goal.  E   Yes, some of the changes required by DII COE are incompatible with rC   existing user-mode application code, but -- much like the 64-bit hD   addressing changes and other internal changes to OpenVMS Alpha -- D   OpenVMS Engineering fully intends to permit the continued correct D   operation of the existing (non-COE) and the new (COE) application A   code.  If you want to use the DII COE support -- just like the  F   development choices that were available when programming within the A   older POSIX environment -- you specifically have to enable any mD   necessary features that are incompatible with the default OpenVMS !   user-mode run-time environment.   F   Yes, once in a while we do break compatibility.  Sometimes by error.C   Sometimes deliberately.  With a deliberate break, there is alwayseB   a very specific reason -- the contractually-required removal of D   Display Postscript support being a recent example, and the plannedC   end of OpenVMS VAX tape-based distribution kits  -- and there is oF   also normally (always?) very specific change documentation provided.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:10:24 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions0 Message-ID: <kLuu6.66$fB6.2216@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <y4n1aeax6b.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:, :Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: :rB :> And I like to have the possibility of case sensitive file names? :> but the change is only half way. It only remembers the firsteA :> writing wrt case. It doesn't allow to have two files named "a".@ :> and "A". I would have liked another option to make it as some :> other OSs wrt case.  M :AFAIK, what you describe is ODS-5 extended file name parsing, which is case-2O :preserving and case-blind. What COE gives you is real, stupid Unix/Posix case-m> :sensitive file naming, i.e., "a" and "A" are different files.  H   The file system has been updated to offer selectively-enabled filenameI   case-sensitivity, as required by DII COE.  This work is based on ODS-5.   J   For further details on DII COE, we can continue the discussions here or H   folks that are truely interested in such arcana can simply follow the I   URL included in the OpenVMS FAQ along to the DISA DII COE requirements.t  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:07:16 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions0 Message-ID: <oIuu6.65$fB6.2216@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <y41yrqcd5w.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:5 :hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  : G :>   DII COE requires a file last access date.  This is support is not mF :>   related to the error in the directory modification date handling. :kJ :That's what I thought...but what actually happened with the latter (bug)?H :From the description, it sounded much like a random number generator...  @   I am not familiar with the (mis)implementation details, sorry.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:24:39 +0000r) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> , Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions, Message-ID: <3ABA97C7.8D495B51@infopuls.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > Z > In article <3AB9592B.2ECA46B9@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > :Peter Weaver wrote:K > :> Basically I don't think any of the work the VMS group is doing for COE D > :> is going to make any major changes to VMS unless you enable it. > : ? > :If this is really true I would be very happy. BTW I read theaA > :other thread and the section from the manual you posted there.m > I >   OpenVMS Engineering has and has had a long-term core goal of ensuring J >   the upward-compatibility of user-mode application code.  Somewhat moreH >   specifically, the upward-compatibility of user-mode application codeH >   that is using documented interfaces and that is lacking latent bugs. > F >   Otherwise, why would we we still have and still use a VAX/VMS V1.0E >   user-mode image in our current OpenVMS VAX regression test suite?  > @ >   Otherwise, why did did we bother to leave the defaults aloneC >   and add the parse style commands for ODS-5 extended file names?r > F >   Otherwise, why did did we bother to continue to provide VMSRTL.EXE7 >   when we broke it up into multiple shareable images?t > E >   Otherwise, why did did we bother to continue to provide a virtualiH >   addressing environment compatible with OpenVMS VAX 32-bit addressingE >   and OpenVMS Alpha 32-bit pre-V7.0 support with the implementations9 >   of 64-bit addressing in OpenVMS Alpha V7.0 and later?e > ? >   Otherwise, why did did we bother to continue to provide theo, >   VAXCRTL after Compaq C became available? >  >   Otherwise... > H >   DII COE has NOT and will NOT change this central compatibility goal. > F >   Yes, some of the changes required by DII COE are incompatible withD >   existing user-mode application code, but -- much like the 64-bitE >   addressing changes and other internal changes to OpenVMS Alpha --eE >   OpenVMS Engineering fully intends to permit the continued correct<E >   operation of the existing (non-COE) and the new (COE) application-B >   code.  If you want to use the DII COE support -- just like theG >   development choices that were available when programming within theeB >   older POSIX environment -- you specifically have to enable anyE >   necessary features that are incompatible with the default OpenVMS # >   user-mode run-time environment.t > H >   Yes, once in a while we do break compatibility.  Sometimes by error.E >   Sometimes deliberately.  With a deliberate break, there is alwaysrC >   a very specific reason -- the contractually-required removal ofhF >   Display Postscript support being a recent example, and the plannedD >   end of OpenVMS VAX tape-based distribution kits  -- and there isH >   also normally (always?) very specific change documentation provided. > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  < This statement is much more comforting than anything said my( Capellas wrt VMS strategy and marketing.? Many thanks - I'll keep this message and think about carving it  into stone.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:37:57 GMTc2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions0 Message-ID: <FVwu6.72$fB6.2714@news.cpqcorp.net>  X In article <3ABA97C7.8D495B51@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote: .. :> ...why would we we... :> ...why did did we...  ..  G   I do do need need to more carefully proof proof read my postings. :-)B   ..  I :>   Yes, once in a while we do break compatibility.  Sometimes by error. F :>   Sometimes deliberately.  With a deliberate break, there is alwaysD :>   a very specific reason -- the contractually-required removal ofG :>   Display Postscript support being a recent example, and the planned E :>   end of OpenVMS VAX tape-based distribution kits  -- and there isaI :>   also normally (always?) very specific change documentation provided.n    I   I will add that a standard that we are explicitly following might well eF   require an incompatible change -- I have seen this arise on various J   occasions over the years.  These changes are seen in language standards F   and similar environments, but I can easily see incompatible changes G   required of standard APIs.  (These can be very difficult or messy to tI   deal with, particularly if we are to avoid breaking existing user-mode aL   applications using the older definitions and/or avoid requiring user-mode    applications be rebuilt.)     = :This statement is much more comforting than anything said my,) :Capellas wrt VMS strategy and marketing. @ :Many thanks - I'll keep this message and think about carving it :into stone.    !   Um, gee, thanks.  I think.  :-)L  E   I'll suggest that the upward-compatibility message be more directlyhF   highlighted by the marketing folks -- the message is something that E   long-time OpenVMS customers undountedly assume, but one that folks  G   not as immersed in OpenVMS over the years might not have seen before u   and might not even realize.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:00:18 +0000N) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>o, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions, Message-ID: <3ABAA022.466F83E8@infopuls.com>  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > H > Did I understand right? Christof just asked for a Unix feature on VMS? >  > Shanel > F > Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> on > 03/22/2001 02:57:16 AM >  > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come > cc:e > / > Subject:  Re: POSIX Streams, File PermissionsH > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:h > C > > And I like to have the possibility of case sensitive file namesm@ > > but the change is only half way. It only remembers the firstB > > writing wrt case. It doesn't allow to have two files named "a"A > > and "A". I would have liked another option to make it as somed > > other OSs wrt case.h > H > AFAIK, what you describe is ODS-5 extended file name parsing, which is > case-eJ > preserving and case-blind. What COE gives you is real, stupid Unix/Posix > case- L > sensitive file naming, i.e., "a" and "A" are different files. (This is one > of< > the few things MS's newer file systems got right, IMNSHO.) > 
 >      Jan  > Not specifically. I only want to have the option to be able to> exactly use the names as they are wrt case and be different if< only one character is different. That UNIX crap may have the! same feature is of no importance.r  ? But why "real, stupid" ("Unix/Posix case-sensitive file name")?e: Is it stupid to make a difference between "MAC" and "Mac"?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:10:30 +0000.) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>t, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions, Message-ID: <3ABAA286.FB7EB7F7@infopuls.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:i > Z > In article <3ABA97C7.8D495B51@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > :Hoff Hoffman wrote: > .. > :> ...why would we we... > :> ...why did did we...e > .. > I >   I do do need need to more carefully proof proof read my postings. :-)S >  > .. > K > :>   Yes, once in a while we do break compatibility.  Sometimes by error.-H > :>   Sometimes deliberately.  With a deliberate break, there is alwaysF > :>   a very specific reason -- the contractually-required removal ofI > :>   Display Postscript support being a recent example, and the plannednG > :>   end of OpenVMS VAX tape-based distribution kits  -- and there isFK > :>   also normally (always?) very specific change documentation provided.  > J >   I will add that a standard that we are explicitly following might wellG >   require an incompatible change -- I have seen this arise on various K >   occasions over the years.  These changes are seen in language standardsrG >   and similar environments, but I can easily see incompatible changes H >   required of standard APIs.  (These can be very difficult or messy toJ >   deal with, particularly if we are to avoid breaking existing user-modeM >   applications using the older definitions and/or avoid requiring user-modeo >   applications be rebuilt.)j > ? > :This statement is much more comforting than anything said my + > :Capellas wrt VMS strategy and marketing.oB > :Many thanks - I'll keep this message and think about carving it > :into stone. > # >   Um, gee, thanks.  I think.  :-)e > G >   I'll suggest that the upward-compatibility message be more directlyuG >   highlighted by the marketing folks -- the message is something thatsF >   long-time OpenVMS customers undountedly assume, but one that folksH >   not as immersed in OpenVMS over the years might not have seen before >   and might not even realize.  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  = The upward-compatibility is in deed expected by long time VMS.= users. But with COE and Compaq (as opposed to DEC) my concernv( was that this attitude may have changed.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:48:19 GMTm From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com , Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions8 Message-ID: <ra6lbtggc2i5p5h8vispb57t0ptpc8tn5p@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:42:04 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoffe Hoffman) wrote:N  G >  DII COE has NOT and will NOT change this central compatibility goal.- ...-O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------nO >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    gO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------,M >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comy  , with the max length of 4095 for file names, - would we see an extension of the maximim DCL h, command line length, and/or even max-length  on symbols && logicals?  e  2 or will the use of (ridiculously long) file names,, be restricted (effectively?) to the CRTL ...  :     All C RTL functions that accept or report full file 		:     specifications will process file specifications up to 9     4095 bytes long, subject to the rules defined for thei<     media format. For file specifications in OpenVMS format,)     there are no special restrictions ...b  7 and I have to ask: no  unix-like  fork() any time soon?s  % I'd wager it's copy-on-write scheme, o  would be a near show stopper ...    4 on a side note, I see the folks doing the docs have  a sense of humor about COE ...  ...2   For example, to change the case of a file named      COEISABLAST.TXT, d    issue the following command:d  *   $ RENAME COEISABLAST.TXT COEIsABlast.txt  @   The RENAME command renames COEISABLAST.TXT to COEIsABlast.txt.  ( and,  a sly dig at u**x, here and there:  !    4.3 Group Management FunctionsX  9        There are no C RTL functions to control groups andp>         their memberships, just as there are no standard APIs 2         in UNIX. OpenVMS provides both native APIs5         and DCL commands to control the creation and o         assignment of groups.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:15:42 +0000i) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>i, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions, Message-ID: <3ABAA3BE.F3832AD4@infopuls.com>    LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com wrote: > G > On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:42:04 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoffl > Hoffman) wrote:  > I > >  DII COE has NOT and will NOT change this central compatibility goal.  > ...tQ > > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------mM > >      For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comiQ > > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------oO > >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.como > - > with the max length of 4095 for file names,s. > would we see an extension of the maximim DCL- > command line length, and/or even max-lengthi > on symbols && logicals?a > 4 > or will the use of (ridiculously long) file names,. > be restricted (effectively?) to the CRTL ... > 9 >     All C RTL functions that accept or report full filel; >     specifications will process file specifications up toi; >     4095 bytes long, subject to the rules defined for the-> >     media format. For file specifications in OpenVMS format,+ >     there are no special restrictions ...- > 9 > and I have to ask: no  unix-like  fork() any time soon?- > & > I'd wager it's copy-on-write scheme," > would be a near show stopper ... > 5 > on a side note, I see the folks doing the docs have   > a sense of humor about COE ... >  ...3 >   For example, to change the case of a file namedS >     COEISABLAST.TXT,! >    issue the following command:w > , >   $ RENAME COEISABLAST.TXT COEIsABlast.txt > B >   The RENAME command renames COEISABLAST.TXT to COEIsABlast.txt. > * > and,  a sly dig at u**x, here and there: > # >    4.3 Group Management Functions  > ; >        There are no C RTL functions to control groups andn? >         their memberships, just as there are no standard APIsi4 >         in UNIX. OpenVMS provides both native APIs6 >         and DCL commands to control the creation and >         assignment of groups.o   :-) :-)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:35:40 -0500i* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions. Message-ID: <3ABA621C.1892.11BB916A@localhost>  , On 23 Mar 2001, at 0:37, Hoff Hoffman wrote:G >   I'll suggest that the upward-compatibility message be more directlyrH >   highlighted by the marketing folks -- the message is something that G >   long-time OpenVMS customers undountedly assume, but one that folks tI >   not as immersed in OpenVMS over the years might not have seen before h >   and might not even realize.I  > A friend moved from VMS to HP-UX a couple of years ago.  He's > sweating bullets over moving from HP-UX V10.20 to V11.0.  His D applications have to be recompiled and relinked.  And completely re- regression-tested.  C When I asked him why he has to go through this pain, he sighed and  5 said "Because HP-UX isn't VMS.  You've been spoiled."-     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671s1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147e= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:35:25 GMT,2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions0 Message-ID: <xLxu6.73$fB6.3226@news.cpqcorp.net>  Z In article <ra6lbtggc2i5p5h8vispb57t0ptpc8tn5p@4ax.com>, LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com writes:  - :with the max length of 4095 for file names, '. :would we see an extension of the maximim DCL - :command line length, and/or even max-length   :on symbols && logicals?    >   I am not expecting to see such a change to DCL, at least not   in the near term.   3 :or will the use of (ridiculously long) file names,-- :be restricted (effectively?) to the CRTL ...   A   Please read up on the existing "didding" and "fidding" support -   available in ODS-5 EFS.n  ; :and I have to ask: no  unix-like  fork() any time soon?...aF :I'd wager it's copy-on-write scheme, would be a near show stopper ...  I   AFAIK, native UNIX fork support is not in the current round of DII COE sI   support.  The fork call has involved a very detailed review of OpenVMS gI   memory and process management.  Surprisingly few applications actually tE   use fork without immediately following it with an exec, which is a o1   massive waste of a perfectly good fork routine.I  5 :on a side note, I see the folks doing the docs have O :a sense of humor about COE ...o  G   Um, the humor lurking in the external documentation can not and does oB   not compare to the humor that is circulating within engineering.   (And please don't ask...)e  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Mar 2001 03:14:35 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)s, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions: Message-ID: <99ef2r$ghi$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  0 In message <xLxu6.73$fB6.3226@news.cpqcorp.net>,6   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:I >  AFAIK, native UNIX fork support is not in the current round of DII COEtI >  support.  The fork call has involved a very detailed review of OpenVMSiI >  memory and process management.  Surprisingly few applications actually E >  use fork without immediately following it with an exec, which is a 2 >  massive waste of a perfectly good fork routine.  J This is reminiscent of the way DEC insisted for years that disk defraggersE weren't needed on VMS because most files are smaller than the cluster D size and thus not fragmented.  I see plenty of applications that useJ fork without an exec (Apache being one example) and it is a real hindrance/ to a getting a clean port of these apps to VMS.-  F The applications I see that do fork/exec almost always create pipes asJ a communication mechanism between the processes.  The current pipe supportG in the C runtime is inadequate and even more so in a fork/exec context.E      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:rL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  + Disclaimer: Dogs can't tell it's not bacon.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Mar 2001 07:00:13 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) , Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-fU5d3goFcgw9@localhost>   B On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:00:18, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  wrote:  $ > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > > J > > Did I understand right? Christof just asked for a Unix feature on VMS? > > 	 > > Shanei > > H > > Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> on > > 03/22/2001 02:57:16 AM > >  > > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma > > cc:e > > 1 > > Subject:  Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions- > > / > > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:- > > E > > > And I like to have the possibility of case sensitive file namesoB > > > but the change is only half way. It only remembers the firstD > > > writing wrt case. It doesn't allow to have two files named "a"C > > > and "A". I would have liked another option to make it as some- > > > other OSs wrt case.e > > J > > AFAIK, what you describe is ODS-5 extended file name parsing, which is	 > > case-:L > > preserving and case-blind. What COE gives you is real, stupid Unix/Posix	 > > case- N > > sensitive file naming, i.e., "a" and "A" are different files. (This is one > > of> > > the few things MS's newer file systems got right, IMNSHO.) > >  > >      Jan > @ > Not specifically. I only want to have the option to be able to@ > exactly use the names as they are wrt case and be different if> > only one character is different. That UNIX crap may have the# > same feature is of no importance.a > A > But why "real, stupid" ("Unix/Posix case-sensitive file name")?s< > Is it stupid to make a difference between "MAC" and "Mac"?  D Chris it does sound a little incongruous for someone who dislikes C F and Unix to imply that they consider case sensitivity in names (ala C  and Unix) a 'good' thing :-)  A I don't think it a good thing but then again I do Fortran  for a n living.i  E Which prompts the thought, if Unix commands are terse to save typing aD why is it that you  _need_  two fingers to type commands? (answer - E you do only need one - you use the Caps Lock and not Shift Lock...). n   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:16:32 -0500o  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com># Subject: Re: Support of old systemsf6 Message-ID: <1010323005354.59701D-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ' On 22 Mar 2001, John E. Malmberg wrote:c  7 > In article <1010321182132.3712B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, ( > John Santos <JOHN@egh.company> writes: > >eF > > I would love to have a CD-ROM on my VAX 4000-200 at work and on myF > > VAX 3600 at home...  At work I have a HSD05 on the DSSI bus with aE > > single RZ29 in a BA356 (as well as a pair of RF disks on the same @ > > DSSI bus.)  Can I put an RRD4x in the top slot of the BA356,B > > which seems to be a raw 5 1/2 SCSI slot purposely designed forA > > CD-ROMS?  Or an external CD-ROM drive?  (I have an RRD42 in aeA > > desk-top box I can play with.)  Will I be able to boot my VAX- > > from it? > G > Going strictly from my memory, and I do not know from that if it is acD > supported configuration, a SCSI CDROM connected to the SCSI bus on( > an HSD05 should work, and be bootable. >  > I have never tried it though.l  ' Good news!  I'll try it some rainy day.-  F > > What about my 3600 at home?  (Hobbyist system).  No SCSI, No DSSI.; > > Has anyone ever written a PC emulator of an Infoserver?s > % > I have not seen anyone admit to it.o > # > > Would an Infoserver emulator be ( > > a) possible, technically or legally? > ? > Anything is possible.  I do not not know if there are patentse@ > involved.  AFAIK the LAD and LAST protocols are not publically > available.   Aha.  Problem #1.X  = > Used Infoservers do show up from time to time, but with oute< > the activation key CD-ROMs and load media, they can easily > become doorstops.t  9 I saw one on Ebay yesterday, bidding was about $15, but I 4 didn't know about activation key or load media being9 required and don't know if they were included or if theres is a license transfer issue.  : > > b) not an insane amount of work as a hobbyist project? >  > What do you consider fun?o  = RSTS/E Kermit?  But then I hit the TKB wall, and couldn't gete< it to build except with I&D space enabled.  (I was trying to= mung the .ODL files to get it to build for a non-I&D machine.d Macro is fun. TKB is not.)  ? > > c) useful enough to the hobbyist community (those with old,t? > >    CD-less VAXes, mostly, I would think) to be worth doing?v > ) > There may be some cheaper alternatives.e  A Glenn Everhart has proposed to me in private email (or maybe it'sf= on the newsgroup too, but I haven't seen it yet) some ways oft> serving files/disks from a PC that may work for a CD-ROM.  ForA layered products, this should suffice.  For VMS upgrades, I thinkc< I could backup/image or just copy the CD to a local bootable< disk, and install from there.  For initial VMS loads without: a working VMS system and network, I don't know what to do.  < Lesson: if you grab a VMS system from somewhere, don't erase; the system disk unless you have a bootable device and mediaa: (like an old TK50 VMS kit or an S/A backup tape and a good  backup of a VMS system disk...)!  @ > > d) isn't the infoserver actually a microVAX of some variety?E > >    could the infoserver software run under a MV emulator on a PC?  > D > There were two flavors.  One used a VAX processor running VAX ELN.B > VAX ELN did not require a VAX processor chip with virtual memory > hardware enabled.t  ; This might then work under a VAX emulator, provided you had " the activation key and load media.  + > I am not sure what the other flavor used.s > " > > e) is there a better approach? >  > Possibly.l > ? > > (Last time I looked, QBUS SCSI controllers are about $1000. > > > No way for a hobbyist, or even for a business that is only> > > keeping a VAX around to support the last few customers who& > > still haven't migrated to Alphas.) > B > The last I looked the used third party ones were about $500 U.S.= > I do not have a list of suppliers with me, and can not giveu > any recomendations.   6 Still much more than it's worth for a hobbyist system.  > > I wrote up an article on aquiring hardware for Hobby OpenVMSA > on Encompasserve, and it was reprinted in the Dallas Fort Worthm8 > Compaq User's group (with out some minor corrections). > L > You can read a copy at http://encompasserve.org/~malmberg/dcl/hobbyvms.txt > > > You may be able to find a used VMS capable system that has a= > SCSI bus (and possibly a CD-ROM) for less than a Q-BUS SCSI.A > adaptor.  By making that system a VMSCLUSTER boot node, you canb$ > load OpenVMS on your other system.  3 Yup, then I could turn my QBUS VAX into a PDP-11...   @ > A cross architecture bootstrap should be possible.  I have notA > yet tried it, and I would not expect the method to be supported 
 > officially.   B Hmm.  If VAX-VMS kits were done in PCSI, could you install VAX-VMS@ on a 2nd disk on an Alpha, then boot a VAX into the cluster from> that 2nd system disk?  You could restore the required save-set< of VMSINSTAL-style VMS kits onto a 2nd disk on an alpha, butA if then network-booted a VAX off it, would enough cluster code bea= there so that it could mount its system disk?  Would the nexteB phase of the install immediately blow up because it doesn't expect@ to be in a cluster at that time?  (Normally when upgrading a VAX= on a local or HSC-served system disk, you are supposed to set B VAXCLUSTER to 0 before starting and are supposed to have exclusive access to the disk.)     -- r John Santosh Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:39:16 GMT , From: "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com>7 Subject: Re: the Northeast Digital Systems Ebay Follies-; Message-ID: <8Pxu6.13061$8O6.2533899@typhoon.austin.rr.com>   F In message <ZsOs6.11763$a3.29285@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy"# <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:p. > Island Computers <sales@islandco.com> wrote:L > > What I don't understand though, is that some people pay more for an EbayJ > > selling item than by just going to a/our website and purchasing - must be
 > > the game.  > K > My theory has been that it's easy to find the stuff on eBay, but it takeslN > effort to find it elsewhere.  I try to make sure I know what various dealersH > are charging for stuff before I consider getting anything on eBay.  OfI > course I'd also rather buy a complete system from a dealer, than off ofl > eBay.e  J It doesn't even have to be hard to find.  I don't know how many times I'veN looked at ebay auctions, thought the bidding was gettng stupid, and then foundI it through shopper.com cheaper.  Course, that's for stuff that's still inhO production.  But with the seach capabilities on the net, I can't believe anyonen# bids without checking prices first.o   -- .6 Jay E. Morris, Epsilon 3 Productions, Web site hosting) http:\\www.epsilon3.com  e3p@epsilon3.ocmf@ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 22:20:14 GMT* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)3 Subject: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?i) Message-ID: <99dtqu$5md$1@hecate.umd.edu>d  E Hello.  I'm running UCX V4.2 - ECO 1 on an Alpha, OpenVMS V7.1-2, andCC am having occaisional problems.  Specifically, I sometimes get spamsB that brings my UCX SMTP component to a dead halt.  I have UCX SMTPC mail configured with one generic and two server queues.  This wierdPF spam email comes it - we call it deathspam - and goes into the queue. ? When it hits the server queue the queue changes from running to0D stopped status and the job is sent back to the generic queue.  It isG then scheduled for the other server queue, and the same thing happens. t> At this point the entire SMTP email system has come to a halt.  E I log on as SYSTEM and do a UCX START MAIL to get it going again (or, F alternately, two START/QUEUE commands).  Guess what job gets processed8 first?  Yep, the deathspam message.  Back to square one.  6 I did a DIR/FUL on the file and noticed the following:  D >Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32767 bytes  C I did a DUMP on the file and searched for a 0A (the LF char); there,C wasn't one.  Looks like a slightly bogus (malformed?) message to meh' that UCX SMTP wasn't prepared to catch.   F Question 1: Can anyone confirm that they've seen this problem and thatC my hunch is really the reason?  Or should I keep on searching for as reason this happens?  B Q2: Does anyone know of a patch or ECO for UCX 4.2 that fixes this problem?  C Q3: If the answer to Q2 is No, does anyone know if this problem wasoE corrected in TCPIP V5.0 or V5.1?  (If it doesn't fix my problem I seek no reason to upgrade.)   Thanks.    Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.eduo   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Mar 2001 23:44:31 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)7 Subject: Re: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas? * Message-ID: <3aba804f$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  V In article <99dtqu$5md$1@hecate.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes:G >Question 1: Can anyone confirm that they've seen this problem and that D >my hunch is really the reason?  Or should I keep on searching for a >reason this happens?j  B Can't confirm. We used to use UCX V4 many months ago and still useM MX (now at V5.2) as mailer instead of the native ones (of TCPware/UCX/TCPIP).   C >Q2: Does anyone know of a patch or ECO for UCX 4.2 that fixes this-	 >problem?    I know of ECO 4.I I does indeed fix a lot of problems with SMTP (at least the release notesX2 say so) but I don't know if it fixes your problem.  H I almost always suggest installing the latest ECO (of course with tests)  D >Q3: If the answer to Q2 is No, does anyone know if this problem wasF >corrected in TCPIP V5.0 or V5.1?  (If it doesn't fix my problem I see >no reason to upgrade.)t  6 There is always a reason to upgrade from UCX to TCPIP.O Start with VMS V7.2 and up, BIND 8, DHCP-Client, XDM, ODS5, NFS V5, NTP V3, ...o and end with IPv6.  2 Better start ASAP (but with minimum V5.0-11 ECO 2)/ and avoid upgrading it concurrently with VMS...    -- t< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888m< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 23:16:21 GMT* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)7 Subject: Re: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?t) Message-ID: <99e145$vgb$1@hecate.umd.edu>-  W In article <3aba804f$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes: D >>Q2: Does anyone know of a patch or ECO for UCX 4.2 that fixes this
 >>problem? >6 >I know of ECO 4.   O I checked Compaq's ftp site and don't see ECO 4.  In fact, there are no patchesmH listed for anything except TCPIP V5.0A.  Any idea where I can get ECO 4?  7 >There is always a reason to upgrade from UCX to TCPIP./  L I'd rather not be forced to upgrade both VMS and UCX/TCPIP at the same time,8 esp. if I don't have any assurance it'll fix my problem.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edue   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Mar 2001 00:27:41 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)7 Subject: Re: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?y* Message-ID: <3aba8a6d$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  V In article <99e145$vgb$1@hecate.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes:X >In article <3aba804f$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:E >>>Q2: Does anyone know of a patch or ECO for UCX 4.2 that fixes thist >>>problem?e >> >>I know of ECO 4. >cP >I checked Compaq's ftp site and don't see ECO 4.  In fact, there are no patchesI >listed for anything except TCPIP V5.0A.  Any idea where I can get ECO 4?o  & I just checked again. The ECO is there  ; 	ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/axp/v7.1/ucx/4.2/t  K I don't use http, because the COMPAQ support page doesn't like NETSCAPE V3.-6 FTP is still working and IMHO the far better solution.  8 >>There is always a reason to upgrade from UCX to TCPIP. >QM >I'd rather not be forced to upgrade both VMS and UCX/TCPIP at the same time,i9 >esp. if I don't have any assurance it'll fix my problem.   B That's what I wrote. First upgrade UCX to TCPIP, then upgrade VMS.E But ALAS, I still don't know a perfect solution to your problem, now.i   -- .< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888>< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:46:36 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: UCX MAIL dies on wierd message, any ideas?c0 Message-ID: <w9wu6.71$fB6.2763@news.cpqcorp.net>  V In article <99e145$vgb$1@hecate.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes:M :I'd rather not be forced to upgrade both VMS and UCX/TCPIP at the same time, 9 :esp. if I don't have any assurance it'll fix my problem.h  A   The problem you have seen is likely a known (and fixed) problemn&   with older TCP/IP Services releases.  B   To locate TCP/IP Services ECO kits for the V4.x TCP/IP Services 5   releases, please look at the OpenVMS V6.2 ECO root:a  >     ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/axp/v6.2/ucx/4.2/  C   TCP/IP Services V5.x is the prefered version on OpenVMS V7.1 and eB   later, with V5.1 being current.  I would definitely encourage an?   upgrade to V5.0A with the ECO or (better) an upgrade to V5.1.a  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Mar 2001 00:47:55 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)tM Subject: Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re::, Message-ID: <99e6fr$1ha1$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3AB9428B.A90A5BC4@infopuls.com>,,  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: |>  " |> Yes they both execute programs.C |> Unfortunately you used the word option for the second word after  |> "SHOW".    ( Not my idea, thst's what HELP called it.   $ help showO   SHOW  D      Displays information about the current status of a process, the&      system, or devices in the system.        Formato          SHOW  optiona              ^^^^^^h    < |>          In my opinion this reveals another point of weakB |> understanding: there is a genuine difference between parameters? |> and qualifiers in VMS whereas the difference in UNIX is onlyt
 |> folklore. e  H So, your saying that the VMS HELP System has a weak understanding??  :-)  B |>            Do you know what happens if files with certain names? |> like "-f" are in a directory and you use a wildcard which isnB |> expanded the way that such a file is included in the list which@ |> will then be passed onto the command you're going to execute?  @ Not only do I know what will happen, I know what to do about it.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:21:59 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>dM Subject: Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: , Message-ID: <3ABAA537.66DA420E@infopuls.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > . > In article <3AB9428B.A90A5BC4@infopuls.com>,. >  Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > |>$ > |> Yes they both execute programs.E > |> Unfortunately you used the word option for the second word aftere > |> "SHOW". > * > Not my idea, thst's what HELP called it. > 
 > $ help show- >  > SHOW > F >      Displays information about the current status of a process, the( >      system, or devices in the system. > 
 >      Format3 >  >        SHOW  optiono >              ^^^^^^o   Yup.  > > |>          In my opinion this reveals another point of weakD > |> understanding: there is a genuine difference between parametersA > |> and qualifiers in VMS whereas the difference in UNIX is only  > |> folklore. > J > So, your saying that the VMS HELP System has a weak understanding??  :-)  ; No. I was wrong. But the problem with UNIX crap remains wrtu parameters and options.t  D > |>            Do you know what happens if files with certain namesA > |> like "-f" are in a directory and you use a wildcard which isRD > |> expanded the way that such a file is included in the list whichB > |> will then be passed onto the command you're going to execute? > B > Not only do I know what will happen, I know what to do about it.  @ Do you think this approach of mixing control and process data is smart?   > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 20:40:55 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Y Subject: Re: VERB SHOW (was Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS Eduy, Message-ID: <99do0n$19r4$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <rb9u6.83639$lj4.2275032@news6.giganews.com>,-  "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> writes:  |>A |> My Unix-memories are a bit rusty but aren't there also severalg= |> Unix (or did I see this on a Linux system a few years ago)d: |> programs where the behavior of the program depends upon0 |> the name given it ? ex and vi spring to mind.  @ Yes, it isn't common, but it is a feature used by some programs.> The first parameter in the calling strng that is passed to the1 program is the name the program was invoked with,   @ By the way, this is not necessarily a Unix thing, although there@ are so few programs that use it, it may seem like it.  This is a? feature of the C Calling method and should be just as doable on  VMS.   bill   -- yJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:00:31 GMTu2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: VMS source listings omittings0 Message-ID: <juvu6.68$fB6.2589@news.cpqcorp.net>  i In article <99cov9$qrv$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>, Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> writes:f  > :The VMS source listings kit states that something is omitted.E :I know the why, but exactly which files/modules are omitted and what  :is their functionality?  E   I would have assumed that the answer to this would be self-evident.s  D   Citing a specific example of an expurgated facility and associatedF   source listings modules, Compaq OpenVMS has deliberately chosen not I   to provide the internal software implementation details of the OpenVMS  G   software licensing mechanisms.  Hopefully, for what should be obvious,
   reasons.  D   Other OpenVMS modules are expurgated from the source code listings1   CD-ROM for a variety of other specific reasons.p  G   If you have a specific facility or function that you require details,sJ   you may well be able to acquire the information and the source listings &   (or even the source code) under NDA.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:43:27 GMTt, From: "Sharon Pulsifer" <zydko@softdisk.com>7 Subject: vpn clients can not telnet into a Vax or Alphae8 Message-ID: <P_wu6.7513$o41.112446@newshog.newsread.com>  F Hello.  I am not sure if this is the correct newsgroup, but here goes.  I We have setup a vpn by using two windows 2000 servers at either location. L The clients at our remote location can not telnet into our Vax or our Alpha.L None of the other clients on our Lan have problems telneting into the vax or alpha.  L At first, I thought that a telnet port was closed.  Then we tested telnetingI from our remote clients into a local cisco router.  This works perfectly.S  6 Has anyone else had any experience like this?  Thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:03:54 -0600 / From: "Steven Downing" <Steven.Downing@ttu.edu>f> Subject: What part of Attunity Connect is included in OpenVMS?1 Message-ID: <99dllm$vad$1@nighthawk1.acs.ttu.edu>e  K Here part of a quotation from Attunity. Sorry the formatting got mangled insF the cut/paste. Surly we don't have to pay this much now since AttunityK Connect is going to be embedded in VMS V7.3. But which of this quotation ise	 free now?    Attunity Incorporated 0 License Agreement for Attunity Software Products	 CUSTOMER:e&     Company Name:         A University'      Address:          Extended Studies       City: Lubbock State: TX  F The Attunity software products described below (Licensed Software) areG licensed to CUSTOMER under the License Agreement  for Attunity Softwareg; Products to which this Schedule A is attached by reference.8) Attunity Signature:    Date of Submissions   ATTUNITY CONNECT LICENSESa  K Model No.       Description                                        Quantityu, Unit Price     Extended     Discount     NetC 5000-5E(W)* Alpha/VMS with RMS (node 1 of cluster)    1     $14,000 ) $14,000         -                 $14,000bC 5000-5E(W)* Alpha/VMS with RMS (node 2 of cluster)    1     $14,000e# $14,000         ($4,900)     $9,100nF 1400-1E* NT with SQL Server                                          16 $3,500       $3,500           -                 $3,500K 1410-42 NT Internet Server                                                2a6 $2,500       $5,000           -                 $5,000  * *Each Enterprise Packaged System Includes:J - 50 Model 1202 Named User Client Licenses, which support ADO/OLE DB, ODBC* and JDBC (total of 150 Named User Clients) - A Connect EngineE - A Business Objects Adapter License (This is the runtime Applicationh
 Connector)   License Subtotal $31,600.00l1 Less Discount (10% off of List Price) ($3,650.00)  License Total $27,950.00   MAINTENANCEo   Annual Maintenance $6,570.00   PROFESSIONAL SERVICESn  & Description Location Quantity    Price0 QuickTune Package At Customer Site 5 Days $8,000J Provides Customer with 5 days of custom tailored on-site service to assist* with rapid deployment of Attunity Connect.( T&E Expenses are included in this price.   TOTAL   $42,520r   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Mar 2001 20:56:56 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.412538.killspam.015a (Wayne Sewell)1$ Subject: Re: [DCL] minute of the day. Message-ID: <07Jcyova7m$N@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  h In article <OFF9902288.FF5FA435-ON88256A16.0069EE55@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:L > A few friends of mine were once doing a group project at University. PhaseJ > one was to write the proposal, which they did. Phase two was to documentK > the design, which they did. Then they came to implementation - oops - the B > tools they documented in the design couldn't do the job. At all. > L > They wrote a little BASIC program to fake the screens, and access the 5.25H > floppy at the right moments, for just one sequence of operations. TheyI > showed this "demonstration" to the lecturer as the deliverable of phaseeM > three, and got an 80%+ mark. The lecturer never knew that if he'd asked foriK > one keypress variation from their planned demonstration, they'd have beent' > up the famous creek without a paddle.a >     K This isn't quite the same, since there was no grade involved, but I wrote a(I system simulation program as a prank once.  This was on a little IBM 1130sO system, which was all this small college (~1000 students) had back in the earlyeM '70s.  My simulator would seize control of the system at unpredictable points O in time and would pretend to be the operating system.  It would merrily read in3I card decks and output the proper job-xxx-is-starting messages on the lineeO printer and console,  but wouldn't actually *execute* the job, instead throwinga= it on the floor.  And of course it would generate the correctsK job-xxx-has-completed message with a success code and read in the next job.-  O The computer room staff nearly went nuts trying to figure out why jobs were not(K generating any output, yet there were no error messages.  After a couple of O dozen jobs went by, the simulator would drop out and return control to the real.O operating system, which made it just that much harder to diagnose the problem. rH Of course, if it saw one of *my* jobs, it would drop out instantly.  :-)  M Admittedly, this was a fairly primitive operating system (this was in 1971 orWN so) and rather easy to simulate, but what the hey.  It was a lot of laughs for not that much code.o   WayneC   -- CO ===============================================================================-M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================oO Dean Wormer to Flounder: "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life."    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:51:55 -0600 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>C% Subject: [Q]Download site for Watch6? R Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCCF3B463@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  
 Hello all;  J I've been asked to locate a download site for Watch6.  The Encompass/DECUSK archive library does not appear to be working.  Does anyone know where elsem it can be downloaded from?  $ Ed Stuart                           ( Manager, Systems and Desktop Services	   Information Technology Services- City of Austin, Austin Energya Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com  + "Glittering prizes and endless compromises u. shatter the illusion of integrity" - Neil Pert  B *Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here*   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:22:51 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) ) Subject: Re: [Q]Download site for Watch6? 0 Message-ID: <009F9674.CE3985E3@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCCF3B463@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes: >Hello all;  > K >I've been asked to locate a download site for Watch6.  The Encompass/DECUShL >archive library does not appear to be working.  Does anyone know where else >it can be downloaded from?y  F I just created a link on my web site to the CD distribution directory.   http://www.tmesis.com/watch6/-  ; Get it NOW because I'm not going to leave it there forever.(   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMD            @O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:13:29 -0500a  From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil) Subject: Re: [Q]Download site for Watch6?o0 Message-ID: <01032216132971@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  7 "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in ? ond  Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:51:55 -0600:  L > I've been asked to locate a download site for Watch6.  The Encompass/DECUSM > archive library does not appear to be working.  Does anyone know where elset > it can be downloaded from?  F http://www.decus.org/encompass/libcatalog/description_html/v00559.html  * works for me at   22-MAR-2001 16:12:46 EST  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919u; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919d5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:21:02 -0600t/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>,) Subject: RE: [Q]Download site for Watch6? R Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCCF3B469@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  G If I try to use the FTP link at the bottom of the page I get: "An error-L occurred opening the folder on the FTP server. Make sure you have permissionF to access this folder.  Details: 550 /pub/lib/v00559/: No such file or directory"    $ Ed Stuart                           ( Manager, Systems and Desktop Services	   Information Technology ServicesB City of Austin, Austin Energya Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com  + "Glittering prizes and endless compromises w. shatter the illusion of integrity" - Neil Pert  B *Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here*     -----Original Message-----D From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil [mailto:jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil]& Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:13 PM% To: INFO-VAX@mvb.saic.com; Stuart, Edr) Subject: Re: [Q]Download site for Watch6?a    7 "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in ? onc  Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:51:55 -0600:  L > I've been asked to locate a download site for Watch6.  The Encompass/DECUSH > archive library does not appear to be working.  Does anyone know where else > it can be downloaded from?  F http://www.decus.org/encompass/libcatalog/description_html/v00559.html  * works for me at   22-MAR-2001 16:12:46 EST  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919n; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919n5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:26:13 -0600l/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>R) Subject: RE: [Q]Download site for Watch6?ER Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCCF3B46A@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  L I can reach it if I use FTP rather than a browser.  The path on the web linkJ is wrong.  If you FTP to ftp.decus.org and go to the /lib/v00559 directory you'll find it.d  2 Looks like I posted way too early on this one. ;-)   Ed   -----Original Message----- From: Stuart, Ed y& Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:21 PM7 To: 'jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil'; INFO-VAX@mvb.saic.com ) Subject: RE: [Q]Download site for Watch6?     G If I try to use the FTP link at the bottom of the page I get: "An error L occurred opening the folder on the FTP server. Make sure you have permissionF to access this folder.  Details: 550 /pub/lib/v00559/: No such file or directory"    $ Ed Stuart                           ( Manager, Systems and Desktop Services	   Information Technology Servicese City of Austin, Austin Energy- Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com  + "Glittering prizes and endless compromises  . shatter the illusion of integrity" - Neil Pert  B *Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here*     -----Original Message-----D From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil [mailto:jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil]& Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:13 PM% To: INFO-VAX@mvb.saic.com; Stuart, Ed|) Subject: Re: [Q]Download site for Watch6?     7 "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in ? on   Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:51:55 -0600:  L > I've been asked to locate a download site for Watch6.  The Encompass/DECUSH > archive library does not appear to be working.  Does anyone know where else > it can be downloaded from?  F http://www.decus.org/encompass/libcatalog/description_html/v00559.html  * works for me at   22-MAR-2001 16:12:46 EST  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919u; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919 5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:26:15 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)P Subject: Re: [Random non-DCL VMS quesion of the day] Need a clue about CLUE help0 Message-ID: <Hdtu6.60$fB6.2059@news.cpqcorp.net>  9 In article <z75u6.82683$lj4.2249624@news6.giganews.com>,  , "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> writes:  ; >CLUE HELP and HELP CLUE don't list the exact same options.  >This seems a bit "jarring"...   You are correct.  B The SDA help file is built from the same source as the SDA manual.3 HELP CLUE picks up basically what is in the book.  dC CLUE HELP has its own help file, which (obviously) is not the same.c  B I have entered a formal problem report.  It is a low priority, butC in some version of OpenVMS *after* V7.3 this may be changed so that * the two command produce identical results.   -- nK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.163 ************************