1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 31 Mar 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 180       Contents: Re: "cut" utility for VMS & Re: APPEND and various text file types- Re: BASIC 1.4 install causing a startup error , Beware - It's another Christof Brass bashing Re: compaction "nabled"? Compaq #1 in HPC( Compaq Releases ECP - download available, Re: Compaq Releases ECP - download available, Re: Compaq Releases ECP - download available, Re: Compaq Releases ECP - download available) CSWS: are FrontPage extensions supported? P Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was OpenVMS            EducationalProgP Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) Pr ES40 Benchhmark record Re: ES40 Benchhmark record  Re: File version update question+ Re: FORTRAN Run-time Errors:  Bad Traceback  gmake / port lib problem, Re: It's not boring any more, IT'S INSULTING Re: Link for ECP& Re: LPD/LPR Config with UCX on VMS 6.2  Re: OpenVMS - DEC character mode  Re: OpenVMS - DEC character mode OpenVMS information page Re: OpenVMS information page0 OpenVMS Multi-Site Cluster White Paper Available OpenVMS Training Re: OpenVMS TrainingE OT: Elements of Linguistics (was Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions) P Re: OT: Elements of Linguistics (was Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions) Permis# Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions # Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions 4 Queue Manager gives me this error about once a month8 Re: Queue Manager gives me this error about once a month$ Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data( Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data( Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data / Yamaha CRW4416S: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data / Yamaha CRW4416S Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha? THE EMC Chronicles - revised  Re: THE EMC Chronicles - revised  Re: THE EMC Chronicles - revised9 Re: They still don't get it (incremental backups and XQP) 9 Re: They still don't get it (incremental backups and XQP) ( VMS Performance Analysis Tool comparison! Re: VMS source listings omittings 0 Re: VMS: DECNet to TCP/IP migration help wanted.0 Re: VMS: DECNet to TCP/IP migration help wanted.0 Re: VMS: DECNet to TCP/IP migration help wanted.- [ANNOUNCEMENT] OpenSSL 0.9.6a Beta 3 released * Re: [Q] param to increase for unsuff SPTE?* Re: [Q] param to increase for unsuff SPTE?* Re: [Q] param to increase for unsuff SPTE?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:51:56 -0500   From: Ben Sego <bsego@clark.net>" Subject: Re: "cut" utility for VMS) Message-ID: <3AC5626C.783572C8@clark.net>    Jordan Henderson wrote:   0 > In article <3AC3FF54.10643.15D8791@localhost>,+ > Stanley F. Quayle <stan@stanq.com> wrote: H > >Has anyone ported the Unix "cut" program to VMS?  I need it for a DCLC > >script.  I pulled down the GNU source, but it uses that horrible & > >shell script configuration stuff... > >  > E > Really, using cut like you would in Unix is very un-VMS like.  What E > you really want is that every VMS command (and all of your programs B > as well) to support a much superior, very regular /SELECT_COLUMN > qualifier. > ( > I suggest a syntax like the following: > 6 >         /SELECT_COLUMN=(LIST:<col-expr>,SEPARATOR=c) > J > Where the LIST qualifier takes a <col-expr> which is the same as in UnixJ > 'cut' and the optional SEPARATOR arg is a character to break columns on. > O > Hmmmm... maybe I should have waited until Sunday to make this recommendation.   < Wait, maybe we should ask Christof Brass what he thinks! :-)   B.S.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Mar 2001 20:26:19 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)/ Subject: Re: APPEND and various text file types , Message-ID: <9a2q5b$r2f@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ` In article <3AC4B5C5.5090106@arcormail.de>, "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcormail.de> writes:
 >Hi David, > G >have you ever considered to use CONVERT/APPEND which does exactly what  >you are looking for!   J Right you are.  Wish I'd noticed a few years ago that that mode of CONVERTH doesn't require an /FDL qualifier.  I've been doing separate convert/fdlE commands and then a final APPEND.  (HELP CONVERT file /append has no  3 examples to indicate that the FDL can be excluded.)   L So if CONVERT/APPEND works correctly, why can't APPEND/CONVERT just link to  it?    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:06:29 -0500 ! From: Karl Puder <kpuder@aol.com> 6 Subject: Re: BASIC 1.4 install causing a startup error' Message-ID: <3AC4E744.C2F66A37@aol.com>   7 This is a known problem that engineering has worked on. H [1] The INSTALL program falls back to doing /SHARE instead. The run-timeD perfomance difference should be minimal, if it is detectable at all.P [2] The error from /SHARE=ADDRESS can be removed by removing "=ADDRESS" from the- dec$basrtl line4 of sys$manager:vmsimages.dat M [3] In my testing, version "V01-026" of dec$basrtl.exe on OpenVMS V7.2-1 does P not have the problem. I don't have firm information handy on what public release contains that version.       :Karl Puder.     Compaq BASIC engineering.   P pseudo-standard disclaimer: These are my words. The fact that they are coming toL you via a corporate network link may be correlated with the fact that I knowN that stuff, but the corporation is not responsible for this information or its	 accuracy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:33:38 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>5 Subject: Beware - It's another Christof Brass bashing + Message-ID: <VA.00000334.89bd0174@sture.ch>   B In article <3AC52F13.83C6D434@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass wrote:  
 [big snip]  @ > You obviously have a problem in separating your personal point? > of view on technical aspects from the importance of my posts.   - Naa. Tis tha wot 'as trubble seein wots reet.    > To> > say it with other words: if you don't like my messages don't? > read it but don't compare my postings with the ones of AH and @ > some other threads which mostly contain(ed) nothing related to > VMS (hundreds of messages).   B You mean like hundreds of lengthy messages full of "Unix is crap"?  ? > If you analyse my posts and the reposts you'll hopefully find ; > them full of technical arguments or complaints of missing B > technical arguments but only a few lines of texts accusing other@ > people having said something else in previous messages a.s.o..  A To be honest, I found them boring. Hint: "Unix is crap" is NOT a   technical argument.   B > Unfortunately I severely missed also with you to communicate the7 > "UNIX is crap" and the "UNIX apps are crap" messages.   
 See above.   [snip]   > / > What makes you to play the role of the judge?  >   A Because you refused to listen to other well considered arguments? ? Because you invoked the "I'm a member of a minority" speech?*** 3 Because you persuaded someone to invoke Odel's Law?   * Because you still haven't got the message?  F YOU WERE SINGLE-HANDEDLY MAKING THIS NEWSGROUP AN UNPLEASANT PLACE TO  BE.   ; *** Hah! My family name is not exactly English, and indeed  C unpronounceable by most in the UK, where I grew up. Think about it.   # > What about the freedom of speech?   G Whoo Hoo! You have already proved that you don't listen to what others   say!   > = > Honestly: I don't see any technical substance in your post.   B There wasn't supposed to be any technical substance, apart from a 
 statistic.  ; > What makes you uncomfortable if I post something which is < > garbage from your point of view? Why do you read my posts? > 7 When you make this newsgroup an unpleasant place to be.   @ What makes you think you can wander into a newsgroup and try to 1 dominate it with your own personal point of view?   F What makes you think you can get away with insulting folks who give a E great deal of their time contributing their technical expertise here?   D If your intention was to close this newsgroup down, you were doing a? pretty good job. That is why I read your posts and oppose them.    ___ 
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:32:38 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: compaction "nabled"? ' Message-ID: <3AC54FD6.FC0C4F3F@fsi.net>    WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  > 4 > In this state, nabling in public is a misdemeanor;& > nabling with a minor is a felony :^)   How 'bout nabling with a mynah?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:12:58 -0600 % From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net>  Subject: Compaq #1 in HPC ' Message-ID: <3AC52F1A.34E234BD@isd.net>   8 http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001032001.html     --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:19:14 -0600 % From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> 1 Subject: Compaq Releases ECP - download available ' Message-ID: <3AC53092.D383E8C8@isd.net>   D Compaq today released ECP (enterprise capacity planner) or something
 like that.B I downloaded it today and tried it out. While it lacks some of the@ features of the old DEC Performance Analyzer it really is a niceH product. The price is right, included with the price of OpenVMS and runs on 6.1 - 7.3 VAX and Alpha.      Good job Compaq!   --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 02:15:49 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: Compaq Releases ECP - download available < Message-ID: <p5bx6.16379$Wz.6309552@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message! news:3AC53092.D383E8C8@isd.net...  > F > Compaq today released ECP (enterprise capacity planner) or something > like that.D > I downloaded it today and tried it out. While it lacks some of theB > features of the old DEC Performance Analyzer it really is a niceJ > product. The price is right, included with the price of OpenVMS and runs > on 6.1 - 7.3 VAX and Alpha.   J Are there any co-requisite apps (PAWZ or what-have-you) and if so, what do
 they cost?   cheers,    terry s    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 20:51:59 -0600 % From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> 5 Subject: Re: Compaq Releases ECP - download available ' Message-ID: <3AC5464F.BB4F854B@isd.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > 4 > "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message# > news:3AC53092.D383E8C8@isd.net...  > > H > > Compaq today released ECP (enterprise capacity planner) or something > > like that.F > > I downloaded it today and tried it out. While it lacks some of theD > > features of the old DEC Performance Analyzer it really is a niceL > > product. The price is right, included with the price of OpenVMS and runs > > on 6.1 - 7.3 VAX and Alpha.  > L > Are there any co-requisite apps (PAWZ or what-have-you) and if so, what do > they cost? > 	 > cheers,  > 	 > terry s   F If I understand correctly PAWZ can be used to augment ECP though it isF not required. I'm not sure what the cost is though.  I spent some timeF today playing with the data collector and the Motif interface which isF quit nice. It feels a lot like the old DEC Performance Advisor, thoughG it does not have the ability to drill down to as much detail as DEC PA, + but then it doesn't cost $25K either :-)       --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 04:02:44 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>5 Subject: Re: Compaq Releases ECP - download available < Message-ID: <EFcx6.16454$Wz.6374796@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message! news:3AC5464F.BB4F854B@isd.net...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > 6 > > "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message% > > news:3AC53092.D383E8C8@isd.net...  > > > J > > > Compaq today released ECP (enterprise capacity planner) or something > > > like that.H > > > I downloaded it today and tried it out. While it lacks some of theF > > > features of the old DEC Performance Analyzer it really is a niceI > > > product. The price is right, included with the price of OpenVMS and  runs! > > > on 6.1 - 7.3 VAX and Alpha.  > > K > > Are there any co-requisite apps (PAWZ or what-have-you) and if so, what  do > > they cost? > >  > > cheers,  > >  > > terry s  > H > If I understand correctly PAWZ can be used to augment ECP though it isH > not required. I'm not sure what the cost is though.  I spent some timeH > today playing with the data collector and the Motif interface which isH > quit nice. It feels a lot like the old DEC Performance Advisor, thoughI > it does not have the ability to drill down to as much detail as DEC PA, * > but then it doesn't cost $25K either :-)  J Nor does it cost anywhere as much as what all the stuff DEC gave away, er, "sold" to Computer Associates!   Not a bad deal!    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:39:57 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")2 Subject: CSWS: are FrontPage extensions supported?8 Message-ID: <009F9CC0.84DA8F55@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  7 VMSers, and especially people using or maintaining the    Compaq Secure Web Server (CSWS):  B I'm told that Microsoft has provided the FrontPage Extensions for C Apache. Assuming this is true, did they get ported with CSWS?  Are  2 they available for CSWS, or for any VMS webserver?  J I'm further told that the extensions consist both of simplified publishing? and a bunch of programmatic support for things like image maps.   M I'm currently running OSU on VMS 7.2-1, which doesn't have any of this stuff. K I'm experiencing some pressure to make our main webserver an NT box running K IIS, which I'd prefer to avoid (since then I'd have to subscribe to bugtraq K and spend all my time applying NT and IIS patches); the argument being used L is that then our non-technical users could happily use FrontPage and do nice# web pages without knowing anything.   I (It would probably not be useful for responses to enumerate how FrontPage < produces really ugly HTML, privileges Internet Explorer overH standards-conformant browsers, and generally sucks.  I'm aware of that. 8 I will still need to have a webserver that supports it.)   Thanks,    -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:33:38 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was OpenVMS            EducationalProg + Message-ID: <VA.00000333.89bd005c@sture.ch>   B In article <3AC52757.7CBFA7DC@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass wrote:   ..Anti Jan stuff...    Stop it please.  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:39:51 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> Y Subject: Re: Dumbing Down VMS with UNIX Elements? (was Re: OpenVMS EducationalProgram) Pr , Message-ID: <3AC52757.7CBFA7DC@infopuls.com>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  > J > > > To a standard-conforming Fortran(77,90,95,...), Ada, C, C++, Pascal,M > > > ... program, it is for all practical purposes indistinguishable whether M > > > they run on VMS, OS/390, any Unix variant, any Win32 variant. If you're  > > This is really BS! > M > Have you ever read a language standard? I have. And I have spent quite somewK > time getting an application to run on a wide variety of systems (for SPEC-L > CPU2000). I can tell you that those standards go to great lengths to avoidJ > assumptions of the underlying hard- and software if at all possible. ForL > instance, they don't assume a compiler and/or linker exist (you can run anM > interpreter instead, for instance); they don't assume a certain data format I > and layout (although both C and Fortran will go in the direction of themP > program allowing to specify that it wants two's complement integers of certainK > precision and, more importantly, IEEE-854 compliant floats); no word whatgP > legal file names etc might be; and a lot of other things. The C (and thereforeO > the C++) standard are somewhat atypical in this respect because of the legacy L > baggage hey needed to codify (the semantics of "char" is a prime example).  = I worked for the ISO in defining two PL standards. I know thee conditions.r  L > > > using a widely-ported GUI library such a Qt, Interacter or Citrix, youO > > > can have an application that interacts with the user in a natural way fortN > > > the particular platform and never know the difference. At the same time, > > This is only for GUI part. > 
 > "Only"!? >  > > Is there Qt on VMS?m > K > I suppose so. There is a version that uses X11, and it's written in C++ - % > both of which are available on VMS.   8 C++ isn't defined that well. There are too many language< constructs which aren't defined in a way that you could take> your sources and compile it with another compiler even for the? same target platform and expect (a) that it can be compiled (b) = if it could it will run (c) if it runs the result will be thet- same. Have you ever tried to compile Maxwell?-   > > What about RMS?  > N > What about it? Do you perhaps mean the functionality offered by RMS over andN > above stream-of-byte files? That is available on a lot of platforms. It justO > so happens that this functionality doesn't come as well integrated, but there M > is no problem for, say, a Unix Fortran compiler to offer the VMS compiler's P > extensions that support keyed access, and ISTR that it actually has been done.  > The problem is that if you have this offered as a layer by the= compiler vendor or by a third party vendor in a multilanguagep? interfacable library there are other solutions and therefore no6= standard you can count on and use general tools for analysis,W& administration/management/tuning etc..   > > Is this a function of Qt?  > @ > Of course not. Why should it? They are doing different things.    This was a rhethorical question.  + > > Do you know what you are talking about?d > 0 > Yes. When did you boot VMS for the first time?  @ 1987. In what respect will the answer to this question be of any value for the discussion?    > # > > Do you ev. even like UNIX crap?  > P > I don't like crap, no matter what the adjective. This includes the crap you've > been venting.d  > Unfortunately no answer to my question and moreover an example< that you aren't able to distinguish crap e.g. UNIX crap from< technical arguments and facts which are the foundation of my	 postings.u  ( > > But the worst is that you missed theD > > point about the very small probability of the COE crap in reallyC > > leading to a situation where we have this imaginary boatload of 9 > > SW on VMS compared to the likelihood of damaging VMS.  > L > That assumption is highly unlikely. As noted above, even loosely standard-K > conforming applications written in C et al. will likely work on VMS. Some P > problems are in the (G)UI arena, larger problems are in setup and installationK > - see the somewhat recent thread about autoconf, make and so on. In fact,hP > I have the impression most people think "port" means "adapt the makefile stuffJ > (not to say crap in many cases) to the idiosyncrasies of my system afterH > removing those of the original implementor's" instead of what the word4 > previously (i.e., about 10 or 15 years ago) meant. > 
 >         Jani  ? It seems that you didn't read the relevant posts to that topic.5; Repeating your statements/opinions about what will probablyh? happen, about what other people might expect and about what the3> outcome of this will be doesn't add any new arguments/aspects. Sorry.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:13:58 -0600a% From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net>  Subject: ES40 Benchhmark record ' Message-ID: <3AC52F56.D939FB5E@isd.net>i  8 http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001021201.html   -- p Keith Brownu kbrown780@isd.net7   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:12:29 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net># Subject: Re: ES40 Benchhmark record < Message-ID: <1aax6.16297$Wz.6270665@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message! news:3AC52F56.D939FB5E@isd.net...  >a: > http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/2001/pr2001021201.html >   J The same system was the first RISC-based quadprocessor to deliver a $/tpmCH of under $20. And equipped with popularly-priced third party memory, the $/tpmC would be about $12.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Mar 2001 14:37:56 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.412538.killspam.015a (Wayne Sewell)o) Subject: Re: File version update question-. Message-ID: <bHkBALWs$FUB@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  J In article <3ac3a4f9@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes:E >>How can I phrase the cmd so that the highest version of BASE.TXT is. >>always the one replaced? > # > Here's the HELP for COPY/REPLACE:s >  > COPY >  >   /REPLACE >  >         /REPLACE >         /NOREPLACE (default) > G >      Requests that, if a file exists with the same file specificationdC >      as that entered for the output file, the existing file is tonF >      be deleted. The COPY command allocates new space for the outputE >      file. In general, when you use the /REPLACE qualifier, includelD >      version numbers with the file specifications. By default, theB >      COPY command creates a new version of a file if a file withF >      that specification exists, incrementing the version number. TheG >      /NOREPLACE qualifier signals an error when a conflict in versioni >      numbers occurs. > + > This leads me to believe that if you use:c > 2 > $ COPY/REPLACE  ONE.TXT,TWO.TXT,etc   BASE.TXT;0 > 8 > you'll get what you want.  I haven't tried it, though.    N No, that appears to do the same thing as "base.txt;", which is to create a new
 version.      1 HARPO> COPY/REPLACE  ONE.TXT,TWO.TXT   BASE.TXT;0nP %COPY-S-COPIED, LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]ONE.TXT;1 copied to LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]BASE .TXT;6 (1 block)P %COPY-S-APPENDED, LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]TWO.TXT;1 appended to LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE] BASE.TXT;6 (1 record)a1 HARPO> COPY/REPLACE  ONE.TXT,TWO.TXT   BASE.TXT;0lP %COPY-S-COPIED, LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]ONE.TXT;1 copied to LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]BASE .TXT;7 (1 block)P %COPY-S-APPENDED, LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]TWO.TXT;1 appended to LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE] BASE.TXT;7 (1 record)= HARPO>        O It appears that you pretty much have to specify an actual version.  Like I told O the guy in another message, you can use f$search("base.txt;") to get the actual * highest version and use that with replace.     Waynes   --  O ===============================================================================CM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxu: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================gO Dean Wormer to Flounder: "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life."    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:29:17 -0500-, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>4 Subject: Re: FORTRAN Run-time Errors:  Bad Traceback> Message-ID: <hshubs-A9EE1B.23291730032001@news.mindspring.com>  ) In article <3AC4724C.18086781@uiowa.edu>,u1  "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote:e  @ >	Does anyone have an suggestions?  I have tried various patches- >over the years and none have seemed to help.e  G Get rid of the /nodebug qualifier.  It prevents there from being -any- eH debugging info, including traceback data.  Do a HELP FORTRAN /DEBUG for  details. -- g Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2001 03:59:20 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: gmake / port lib problemr- Message-ID: <87g0fv2fl3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  @ I was installing the porting library. The compile went fine, and0 I went to install it into sys$common:[vms_port.]  = The error message is that sysommon:[vms_port] is not found...n  D Anyone have any idea where this problem is? Is there a fixed version of gmake somewhere.      --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.2@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:12:51 +0000i) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>i5 Subject: Re: It's not boring any more, IT'S INSULTINGe, Message-ID: <3AC52F13.83C6D434@infopuls.com>   Paul Sture wrote:o > D > In article <3ABB4C28.E5316DD1@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass wrote:) > > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:14:16 +0000s- > > From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  > > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmseP > > Subject: Re: Boring the pants off the COV (was RE: Dumbing Down VMS with...) > >k > > "Doc.Cypher" wrote:R > > > ( > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > >kE > > > On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:- > > > >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: > > > >>+ > > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----i > > > >>H > > > >> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> <snip>  > > > >>U > > > >> >> I've been following this "VMS is the best thing since Alan Turing's time"e& > > > >> >> argument for too long now.
 > > > >> > > > > >> >Misunderstanding.D > > > >>O > > > >> Really? You do seem to be in favour of VMS in an almost fanatical way.e > > > >C > > > >Technical, *technical*! > > >AQ > > > But Christoff, your passion for the subject is not doing your viewpoint anyS! > > > favours. This is important.  > > >SQ > > > You might think that there was no substance to my little flamewar with Tony-Q > > > Szopa (a known Troll). That's because the point was already made and he (a)rP > > > refused to acknowledge it, and (b) Was most discourteous. So, he invited a9 > > > flaming. You have to be careful not to do the same.  > > >tP > > > One of the key pieces of advice in RFC 1855 is to cool off before posting.N > > > It doesn't say that you should avoid using inflammatory language, but itN > > > would be a good idea around here to do so only when you don't care about6 > > > the followups (or know they'll be on your side). > > >eQ > > > The only way you'll get everyone on your side, is if you're bashing The Q's H > > > marketing division for not getting their act together to sell VMS. > > >e
 > > > Doc. > > >N# > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----t > > > Version: 2.6.2 > > > F > > > iQEVAwUBOrqD8sriC3SGiziTAQEC2AgAra/tiZ1+z48TqBCowxz16uXU+ZYg3/bdF > > > sD2MKLWn2L5iHVDspQLHo9Q6aSlQoDQ0rHLdGN5j1nA5qTsE6ipvO4lLQy0r7r5sF > > > zAKbQ04/+H7JMXgJqJ+vwxi7ZlXxpXBSgLckhh2cYSZ1YY2L8SAFUfSitrgNe2PVF > > > YT7J1MpR3HSQP+OR0v+0YP/jjsOeiz4h1ufiBwWC/aM5qdMC9cWPakUINvQOhN7zF > > > WZ7Zfs57tDEUkmuSHys7yvJR4NF1c9oyZIAWnIxb2BLQCFZCMAqQvuIYnzNdL0EW> > > > BwTM9our/IwQ1pCjFuoviBK1Fi9v/5MUVpJoOxUyOG29FzqMEJt7rA== > > > =fDaYr! > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----D > >MB > > You are basically right but I don't try to get the majority onB > > my side as I don't think that VMS is an OS for the majority or* > > fine arts or every high quality stuff. > >rB > > My biggest mistake - if we could say so - is not to be able toB > > communicate my intents to some of the people that might agree.D > > But most opponents won't change their minds because *they* don'tD > > fit in. This NG is devoted to VMS not to UNIX crap. Therefore itD > > is very naturally to defend VMS from a technically point of view@ > > against damage which is to be expected of the course the COE > > things might take. > >rC > > To be clear: what the majority thinks or does is no measure foraC > > quality. It could be the extinction of some minorities. In thatsA > > I could reference to the butt head (Brian Wheeler) in this NG-B > > accusing me of beeing like the Nazis against the Jews. I wouldD > > have used a more drastic word to denote this stupid ashole but IA > > don't know any suitable words which will pass the four lettere > > words filters. > R > You still don't get the message, do you? People have told you politely, and then5 > used stronger language, and you still don't get it!e > J > YOU ARE SINGLE-HANDEDLY MAKING THIS NEWSGROUP AN UNPLEASANT PLACE TO BE. > T > 118 messages from you out of a total of 854 messages in the last 7 days, plus manyO > responses. Maybe 3 or 4 of technical interest, the rest garbage. I am sick ofo > hearing your mantra. > - > > To come back: I'm a member of a minority!o > E > Big deal. You can't go through life blaming everyone else for that.i >  > > ToosC > > many people here support the UNIXification of VMS - I think out C > > of despair. I'm used to be part of a minority. My mother tongue C > > is a rarely used language. My favourite PLs are rarely used. Myc> > > favorite desktop OSs are close to extinction. My favouriteA > > enterprise OSs are near to extinction. Do you think you couldwC > > impress me with "showing the instruments" (if you understand to8+ > > which medieval phrase I'm referencing)?C > >@A > > To get the applaus of the majority is boring. To get the bestl9 > > people on my side is a challenge and would please me.e > >t > . > A challenge you are totally failing to meet. >  > Spectacularly. > T > You have insulted folks here who I greatly respect. I even applaud Andrew HarrisonB > for his response to you, and I normally do not give him an inch. > U > You are making bitter enemies here. Since English is not your mother tongue, let mefT > explain that the F word is deeply insulting. I have _never_ used it in front of myM > parents or my sister, and maybe only once or twice in front of my brothers.f > _That's_ how bad it is.p >  > I repeat:  > J > YOU ARE SINGLE-HANDEDLY MAKING THIS NEWSGROUP AN UNPLEASANT PLACE TO BE.J > YOU ARE SINGLE-HANDEDLY MAKING THIS NEWSGROUP AN UNPLEASANT PLACE TO BE.J > YOU ARE SINGLE-HANDEDLY MAKING THIS NEWSGROUP AN UNPLEASANT PLACE TO BE. >  > ___l > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland   > You obviously have a problem in separating your personal point@ of view on technical aspects from the importance of my posts. To< say it with other words: if you don't like my messages don't= read it but don't compare my postings with the ones of AH andh> some other threads which mostly contain(ed) nothing related to VMS (hundreds of messages).w@ If you analyse the threads AH has been involved you'll find that? most of the text is only accusing of having said something what : isn't true or not referring to the correct message and not@ mentioning the message a.s.o.. Most of the text isn't related to* the topic, it is instead meta-information.= If you analyse my posts and the reposts you'll hopefully findw9 them full of technical arguments or complaints of missingi@ technical arguments but only a few lines of texts accusing other> people having said something else in previous messages a.s.o..@ Unfortunately I severely missed also with you to communicate the; "UNIX is crap" and the "UNIX apps are crap" messages. And Ih: should have added that most people who like UNIX (and - of> course - C/C++) are of different type than people who like VMS' (and - of course - e.g. Ada or Pascal).h> But the most important aspect is that I'm not fighting against< the UNIX people: I fight for the quality of VMS. And I still= hope that this VMS NG is the place to keep the quality of the @ typical VMS style, simply to keep the VMS style and let the UNIX crap happen somewhere else.i  - What makes you to play the role of the judge?a  ! What about the freedom of speech?   ? Honestly: I don't see any technical substance in your post. I'mo= sure the attitude that UNIX crap is something to aim for with ? VMS shouldn't be supported in this NG from a technical point ofa@ view. I'm also sure that the attitude of appeasement to the UNIX: hype is one major reason for the market share of VMS which+ doesn't reflect VMS' quality and potential.i  9 What makes you uncomfortable if I post something which is,: garbage from your point of view? Why do you read my posts?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:08:27 -0600e% From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net>t Subject: Re: Link for ECPe' Message-ID: <3AC54A2B.4BB3A358@isd.net>d   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:" > 4 > "Keith Brown" <kbrown780@isd.net> wrote in message# > news:3AC53092.D383E8C8@isd.net...o > >oH > > Compaq today released ECP (enterprise capacity planner) or something > > like that.F > > I downloaded it today and tried it out. While it lacks some of theD > > features of the old DEC Performance Analyzer it really is a niceL > > product. The price is right, included with the price of OpenVMS and runs > > on 6.1 - 7.3 VAX and Alpha.o > L > Are there any co-requisite apps (PAWZ or what-have-you) and if so, what do > they cost? > 	 > cheers,s > 	 > terry st  C http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.htmla -- t Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.neta   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:52:20 -0500e$ From: Scott Horn <shorn@dlzcorp.com>/ Subject: Re: LPD/LPR Config with UCX on VMS 6.2l+ Message-ID: <3AC50014.567A2AA6@dlzcorp.com>c   Found a fix!  G After figuring out how to turn on debug logging, found that first errortF encountered is BADHOST followed by the IP address that I had specified as the host name.o  D So I made a host entry for that address, and edited the printtab.dat file accordingly.   C Now the printing works.  Question is, what's wrong with using an IPtB address as host name?  The examples in the current docs include IP entries.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:44:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - DEC character model+ Message-ID: <3AC5286F.38287BD@videotron.ca>e  = By default, Digital used the Dec Multinational Character Set.s  K However, the standard now is ISO Latin 1, (or ISO-8859-1). This standard is L essentially the same as the DEC MCS, except for a handful of characters that6 are used in positions that were unused by the dec MCS.  " In practice, the two are the same.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2001 03:01:22 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis)h) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - DEC character modei! Message-ID: <fhZk5EegRxEO@ludens>c  [ In article <3AC5286F.38287BD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:t? > By default, Digital used the Dec Multinational Character Set.e > + > However, the standard now is ISO Latin 1,   / ..in the smaller and more rich part of world...i  ! (for example, we use ISO Latin 2)o    I Adam Maulis              maulis@ludens elte hu         VMS system managerOH  .......................................................................H  VMS Competence Center                             VMS Szakertoi KozpontH  Eotvos Lorand University                  Eotvos Lorand TudomanyegyetemH  Budapest, Hungary                                              BudapestH  =======================================================================   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Mar 2001 02:36:57 GMT# From: merefbast@aol.com (MerefBast)e! Subject: OpenVMS information pagep: Message-ID: <20010330213657.14254.00000574@ng-fw1.aol.com>  1    Hi. Sorry to bother everyone, but I need help.   4    I am the author of an educational web site about 7 operating systems < http://www.operatingsystems.net >. s3 Although I don't provide a lot of depth on any one  : operating system (I'm still working on it), I do provide a: fairly comprehensive overview and comparison of operating 0 systems (particularly server operating systems).  9    High traffic has forced the site to move from several s8 different ISPs. The current ISP can handle the traffic,  but I can't afford their rates.   :    As a result, it is highly likely that the web site will close down on April 5th.  :    If anyone wants to save a copy of the web site to their9 disks before the shut down date, then they need to visit s: the web site before then. I currently have a set of three : ZIP files of the site as of March 25th ready for download,: and will be posting updated ZIP collections on March 31st  and April 3rd.  :    Also, if anyone spots any technical errors or outdated 9 information, please notify me immediately, so that I can n: make sure that the information is accurate on the last set of updates.   :    And if anyone can help fund the cost of hosting the web: site, please let me know. I have already received pledges : for contributions, but not yet enough to keep the web site9 around. Individuals can help by sending a check or money :9 order to 1-host, 7595 Redwood Blvd, Ste 215, Novota, CA, n5 94947 (please clearly indicate on the check that the  6 payment is for "OperatingSystems.net", as the ISP has 8 thousands of accounts; also do not send cash). If there 7 are any businesses that want to sponsor particular web t8 pages (or the entire web site) in trade for a prominent 6 message, a small icon, and a link, please let me know.  9    If you want to check out what is at the web site, you a0 may want to try some of the following web pages:  < TRU64 UNIX: http://www.operatingsystems.net/oses/decunix.htm5 OPENVMS: http://www.operatingsystems.net/oses/vms.htme7 ULTRIX: http://www.operatingsystems.net/oses/ultrix.htm 3 UNIX: http://www.operatingsystems.net/kind/unix.htmi  J FILE SYSTEMS: http://www.operatingsystems.net/holistic/connect/filesys.htm HARDWARE SUPPORTED:o> http://www.operatingsystems.net/holistic/hardware/hardware.htmM CHARACTER CODES: http://www.operatingsystems.net/system/physical/charcode.htm  ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE PROGRAMMING:6 http://www.operatingsystems.net/topic/language/asm.htmH SECURITY: http://www.operatingsystems.net/holistic/security/security.htmO BASICS OF COMPUTERS: http://www.operatingsystems.net/system/physical/basics.htmg  COMPARISON OF OPERATING SYSTEMS:0 http://www.operatingsystems.net/kind/summary.htmJ KINDS OF OPERATING SYSTEMS: http://www.operatingsystems.net/kind/kinds.htm  -    I can be contacted at < CatGuy@lamg.com >.t       Thanks....   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:19:54 +0200 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>% Subject: Re: OpenVMS information pageT& Message-ID: <3AC5770A.329C5B2E@gmx.ch>   Amazing!  M But... OpenVMS : Real Time : not relevant. I don't agree. Heard about processPF priority 16 to 31? Do you think it is for bigger Rdb databases access?  : I got 930 items for about 29Mo of info, via www.ecatch.com   D.   MerefBast wrote: > 5 >    I am the author of an educational web site aboute8 > operating systems < http://www.operatingsystems.net >. ../..e< >    If anyone wants to save a copy of the web site to their: > disks before the shut down date, then they need to visit > the web site before then.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:58:38 -0600t+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@COMPAQ.com> 9 Subject: OpenVMS Multi-Site Cluster White Paper AvailablenR Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D94C1@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>  
 Hello All,  K Apologies if this was previously posted, but the web site for OpenVMS / SANf2 technology updates was updated on March 26, 2001.   K Among the updates is some new patch information and a technical white paperj on OpenVMS Multi-Site clusters.   
 Reference:6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/index.html   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantw Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660	 Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:22:32 -0500e2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: OpenVMS Trainingl2 Message-ID: <AO6x6.404$fB6.10903@news.cpqcorp.net>   Folks,  8 I received the following and thought I would pass it on.   Have a great weekend.c   Sue   > ______________________________________________________________      I The PARSEC Group is an Authorized Independent Training Partner (AITP) fore  G Compaq Computer Corp. specializing in delivering OpenVMS classes. Sincep  L 1986 we have provided OpenVMS open enrollment and on-site classes, including  K Internals, Crash Dump Analysis, DECnet, UCX and other layered products. All   D of our classes are taught by senior level consultants with extensive  K "real-world" experience, each having over 12 years experience with OpenVMS.C  @ Consulting Services include Performance Tuning, installation and  / configuration of Galaxy software, and upgrades.s  J If you are interested you may contact Chuck Amend at 888-472-7732 ext. 225  B or email him at mailto:chuck@parsec.com or check out our web site.   http://www.parsec.com/openvms/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:56:06 -0600C1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Training6' Message-ID: <3AC55556.CE9FBBB3@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Folks, > : > I received the following and thought I would pass it on. >  > Have a great weekend.c >  > Suen > @ > ______________________________________________________________ > K > The PARSEC Group is an Authorized Independent Training Partner (AITP) for  > D > Compaq Computer Corp. specializing in delivering OpenVMS classes.  [snip]  G Yes. I've been to Wayne Sauer's DECUS sessions. I wish I'd taken better ' notes, 'cuz I can't find the hand-outs.t  A My issues with Parsec classes are the usual affordability issues:   	 * Tuition> * Travel * Accomodationss  C Otherwise, based on Wayne's DECUS sessions, I'm sure the content ist" top-notch! Absolutely recommended!   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsR http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/A  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:31:21 -0600(1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>lN Subject: OT: Elements of Linguistics (was Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions)& Message-ID: <3AC54F89.E0CF460@fsi.net>   Christof Brass wrote:  > [snip] There are countless > homophones in English.   F.Y.I., in (American) English:  " homonyms - Words that sound alike.- synonyms - Words that are similar in meaning. . antonyms - Words that are opposite in meaning.  H phoneme - element of sound associated with a consonant or vowel, or with a blend or diphthong.i  E I've never studied it in any depth, but I've read that there are some H forty-four(44) phonemes in the English language, outside of those soundsG "inherited" from the many other languages from which Modern English has  evolved.  , As always, I could be (probably am) wrong...   FWIW...s   --   David J. Dachterav dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:43:36 -0500   From: Ben Sego <bsego@clark.net>Y Subject: Re: OT: Elements of Linguistics (was Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions) Permiso) Message-ID: <3AC56078.D6DDB345@clark.net>t   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Christof Brass wrote:  > > [snip] There are countless > > homophones in English. >r  > F.Y.I., in (American) English: >    <snip>   >n. > As always, I could be (probably am) wrong...  L Well, DJD, this time I have to side with Christof.  (And you _know_ how thatK makes me feel.) "Homophones" are words that sound alike, but have differento& meaning.  Here is a homophonic triple:   bights bite byte  L Incidentally, it is not a requirement that the words be spelled differently;K but rather that they 1.) sound the same, 2.) have separate origins, and 3.)r have separate meanings.s  " Ben "WKU taught English, too" Sego   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:22:43 +0000l) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>e, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions, Message-ID: <3AC53163.8B1E38FE@infopuls.com>   andrew harrison wrote: >  > Christof Brass wrote:S > >L > > Hoff Hoffman wrote:s > > >o^ > > > In article <3AB6C871.D9DEDB24@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:= > > > :Why can't we have a pure VMS version and UNIX-version?  > > >nJ > > >   Your question is sufficiently terse as to be exceedingly difficult+ > > >   to answer.  In other words, "huh?".  > > >tT > > >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P > > >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comT > > >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------R > > >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com > >h
 > > Sorry.> > > Can we have a VMS which is free of UNIX API in the kernel?; > > Can we have a VMS which behaves as before wrt directory 1 > > modification date and delete file permission?o > 4 > Well you had better start chucking things out that > you are using now. > 7 > Get rid of any IP stack you have installed on OpenVMSp8 > they are all based on the BSD 4.X IP stack and I don't( > need to tell you where that came from.  : IP is a widely used standard and at the moment there is no9 promising way to avoid it. Besides that it is possible ton, implement an IP stack according to the RFCs.  6 > How about CDE, do you use it on OpenVMS, tsk tsk tsk' > naughty Christof, chuck that as well.i   I use DECwindows/Motif.r  4 > While you are at it get rid of PIPE its a UNIXism.  @ I've never used PIPE on VMS because I normally use 6.2 and AFAIK PIPE isn't there.N  3 > How viable do you think OpenVMS would be as an OSE0 > if you removed all the "UNIX Crap" thats in it > allready ?????  = I'm not sure if you get a point with that question. There areu@ important production VMS systems not running IP but only DECnet.> If you come up with a list we can check each item. To make one? thing clear: a feature which might be there in one or more UNIXm@ variants is no problem for having it with VMS as long as it fits	 into VMS.n  	 > Regardsr > Andrew Harrisonl > Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:49:24 +0000i) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>i, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions, Message-ID: <3AC537A4.A618F1EF@infopuls.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:g > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  > ? > > Again: I like case sensitivity in filenames sometimes but ItD > > don't like all sorts of characters in filenames. But what I like< > > is not important because only the case sensitivity has aC > > technical background. E.g. there are programming languages that ? > > take Mac and MAC as beeing different. To have the option too2 > > adjust this per directory may be very usefull. > E > Excuse me? You want to change a fundermental part of the DCL syntaxwH > (what is a file-spec) and have it changed because of what is or is not > in some directory today? >  > Now I've heard everthing.h >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.sB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.  @ I don't regard case-insensitivity of file names as a fundamental9 design aspect. The syntax is a fundamental design aspect:  device:[dir1.dir2]filename.ext Do we understand each other?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:58:45 +0000s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>o, Subject: Re: POSIX Streams, File Permissions, Message-ID: <3AC539D5.BAC84C2F@infopuls.com>   Carl Perkins wrote:  > / > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes...i > }Carl Perkins wrote: > }>* > }> Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes...L > }> }Did I understand right? Christof just asked for a Unix feature on VMS? > }> } > }> }Shane, > }>I > }> Not only did he ask for one, he asked for one of the stupidest ones.: > }>I > }> Case sensitivity is completely and utterly moronic (not only in fileoK > }> names, but in programming languages and every other place it happens).9 > }>H > }> The COE thingy is, of course, requiring such a feature. Fortunately9 > }> it will only happen if you deliberately activate it.  > }>
 > }> --- Carlt > }> > }l* > }Yes it have to be activated explicitly.A > }But why is it stupid to make a difference between Mac and MAC?i > ; > Because they are not different. They are the same. To see-7 > this, try reading your sentence above out loud. Wouldp7 > someone listening to you read it be able to tell that?3 > one was "Mac" and the other "MAC"? Unless you says> > "capital-m lowercase-a lowercase-c" and "capital-m capital-a; > capital-c" when you get to them (which is rediculous, but @ > necessary if you want case sensitivity) instead of just saying= > "mac" then they will not be able to tell the difference. If < > you can't tell the difference then they are not different.B > If you have to jump through moronic hoops to make them different( > them making them different is moronic.  = Your analogy example is completely wrong. There are countlessm5 homophones in English. The computer has no context tot9 distinguish between Mac (Macintosh) and MAC (Media Accesst9 Control) the humans normally have. To compare humans withe8 computers is basically wrong and cannot be used to prove	 anything.-  B > }Especially in a programming language in which we try to express> > }our algorithmical thoughts, objects a.s.o.. If we have thisA > }disctinction in our natural scripture why not carrying forward  > = > No "we" don't. They are the same. They are both "mac". If I > > use a variable or function called "mac", then it is "mac" noF > matter how you capitalize it. Is the word "If" (as used at the startC > of your last sentence above) a different word that the word "if"?  > Of course not. "If" is "if".  8 See above. The way you put it I agree but you missed the	 scenario.:  C > It's not as if there is a shortage of characters. If you want twoVD > things called "mac" then make them "mac1" and "mac2", an array, orD > some other such thing. Since they obviously are not the same thingD > you should certainly be able to come up with better names for themE > that are more descriptive of what they are used for so you can tellt > which one is which.h   See my remark before.r  @ > Trying to explain to someone how your program works if you useA > the same word with different cases is an exercise in stupidity..= > "Then you multiply Mac by FOO." "But mac is a function thatc> > doesn't return a value." "Not that MAC, the other Mac." It'sB > like the old "who's on first" routine, only it makes less sense.   See my remark before.   A > }to our PLs and filesystems? I would rather restrict the use of=A > }special characters which are used in natural language texts to-? > }separate words/sentences or to express certain grammaticallyb% > }important meanings like questions.V > C > Case sensitivity is one of the reasons that programs written in CoE > are prone to errors. One normally unimportant error and the program H > is wrong. The person who invented case sensitive programming languages1 > should be beaten with very large blunt objects.i  = I don't agree. I always liked case-sensitivity in PLs. With Cn? you have a bunch of problems. The problem of incidentally usingr< the wrong item because of a case swap is a minor problem and> mostly a consequence of the other much more important problems2 e.g. not a useful scoping concept and type system.  A > Case sensitivity in filesystems (which, in Unixoid systems also A > leads directly to case sensitivity in commands) is also stupid.    I agree wrt commands.a  H > Why should either the computer or I care if I type in "print foo.txt",C > "Print Foo.Txt", "PRINT foo.TXT", or any of the other of the 2^11hE > possible variations? In all of these cases I just want to print thei > text file called foo.   = Then use the appropriate name. And as I proposed this features# should be adjustable per directory.    > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:13:12 -0800i7 From: David Spencer <spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com>o= Subject: Queue Manager gives me this error about once a monthmB Message-ID: <300320011313123700%spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com>  F As described in the header, I get the following message on the console# (somewhat abbreviated for clarity):7   $e8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  30-MAR-2001 11:12:25.67  %%%%%%%%%%%" Message from user SYSTEM on XXXXXX %QMAN-E-WRITEERR, error writingtA $2$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL;1I& -RMS-F-RMV, ACP remove function failed& -SYSTEM-F-DATACHECK, write check error %QMAN-E-OPENERR, error openingA $2$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL;1./ -RMS-E-FEX, file already exists, not supersededb* -SYSTEM-W-DUPFILENAME, duplicate file name  @ I have other systems that never display this message. I've tried? and tried to figure out what's different with this one but with. no luck.  
 Any ideas?   Thanks,y   -- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2001 17:50:37 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)AA Subject: Re: Queue Manager gives me this error about once a monthr3 Message-ID: <c7bs4mbabT6j@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  | In article <300320011313123700%spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com>, David Spencer <spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com> writes:H > As described in the header, I get the following message on the console% > (somewhat abbreviated for clarity):t >  > $s: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  30-MAR-2001 11:12:25.67  %%%%%%%%%%%$ > Message from user SYSTEM on XXXXXX! > %QMAN-E-WRITEERR, error writingIC > $2$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL;1n( > -RMS-F-RMV, ACP remove function failed( > -SYSTEM-F-DATACHECK, write check error  > %QMAN-E-OPENERR, error openingC > $2$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL;1:1 > -RMS-E-FEX, file already exists, not superseded0, > -SYSTEM-W-DUPFILENAME, duplicate file name > B > I have other systems that never display this message. I've triedA > and tried to figure out what's different with this one but with 
 > no luck. >  > Any ideas?   Type HELP/MESSAGE DATACHECK.  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:27:50 GMT-2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY dataP2 Message-ID: <WD8x6.409$fB6.11069@news.cpqcorp.net>  @   I am looking for the device codes returned by the OpenVMS V6.2?   (and later) SYS$ETC:SCSI_INFO.EXE tool, and specifically withi   CD-R and CD-RW disk drives.e  ?   I'd like to get this data from the following widgets, as wellc@   as various other CD-R or CD-RW widgets that might be in common1   use among the members of the OpenVMS community:l       Philips CDD2000      Philips CDD2600m     HP 4020m     HP 6020.     Yamaha CDR100      Yamaha CDR400C  >   The following sequence of three DCL commands will return the>   data that I seek -- DKA400: is the device name of the target"   SCSI device on the local system:       $ set proc/priv=all2     $ etc:==$sys$etc:scsi_info     $ etc dka400:c  ?   And the chunk of data is on the first page of output from the1@   SYS$ETC:SCSI_INFO tool; the 36 bytes of the SCSI INQUIRY data >   returned from the CD-R/CD-RW disk drive, and the associated <   text decoded from the INQUIRY data.  The following example?   data is from a CD-ROM drive, obviously, but I'm specifically r>   and only looking for INQUIRY data from CD-R or CD-RW drives:    ....V# $!   SCSI Inquiry Data (36 bytes) :o $!= $!      000:  05 80 02 02 1F 00 00 98 44 45 43 20 20 20 20 20e= $!      010:  52 52 44 34 35 20 20 20 28 43 29 20 44 45 43 20c $!      020:  30 34 33 36a $!' $!      Peripheral Device Type : CD-ROMt $!% $!      Peripheral Device Qualifier :i $!F $!              Peripheral device type supported & connected to target $!# $!      Vendor Identification : DECf $!/ $!      Product Identification: RRD45   (C) DECu  ....t    	   Thanks!   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2001 02:17:28 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis)I1 Subject: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data ! Message-ID: <t6aSr314KOXz@ludens>_   Hello,    = 1, CD write device. I cannot read any disk with it, but I canoC    write cd image widh 4-speed on a VAXstation 4000/60 32Mbte ram,  D    from RZ57 imgae device. VMS 7.2, and the latest CDRECORD utility.  I This machine is an DEC3000 modell 600 with 128 Mbyte RAM and VMS 7.3 eft2      TORONY $$ etc dkb500:t   [...]s   $! Issuing INQUIRY QIOW  $!# $!   SCSI Inquiry Data (58 bytes) :t $!= $!      000:  05 80 02 02 27 00 00 10 59 41 4D 41 48 41 20 20U= $!      010:  43 52 57 38 34 32 34 53 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20o= $!      020:  31 2E 30 64 30 36 2F 31 30 2F 39 39 00 00 00 00w+ $!      030:  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00M $!' $!      Peripheral Device Type : CD-ROMe $!% $!      Peripheral Device Qualifier :r $!F $!              Peripheral device type supported & connected to target $!& $!      Vendor Identification : YAMAHA $!( $!      Product Identification: CRW8424S $!$ $!      Product Revision Level: 1.0d $!   [...]d   2,  standard rrd43:-   TORONY $$ etc dka400:    [...],   $! $! Issuing INQUIRY QIOWr $!# $!   SCSI Inquiry Data (36 bytes) :i $!= $!      000:  05 80 02 02 1F 00 00 98 44 45 43 20 20 20 20 20,= $!      010:  52 52 44 34 33 20 20 20 28 43 29 20 44 45 43 20h $!      020:  30 30 36 34i $!' $!      Peripheral Device Type : CD-ROMs $!% $!      Peripheral Device Qualifier :o $!F $!              Peripheral device type supported & connected to target $!# $!      Vendor Identification : DEC  $!/ $!      Product Identification: RRD43   (C) DECh $!$ $!      Product Revision Level: 0064   [...]g    I Adam Maulis              maulis@ludens elte hu         VMS system manageroH  .......................................................................H  VMS Competence Center                             VMS Szakertoi KozpontH  Eotvos Lorand University                  Eotvos Lorand TudomanyegyetemH  Budapest, Hungary                                              BudapestH  =======================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:37:52 GMTi= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)g1 Subject: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY datac0 Message-ID: <009F9CE1.C19D6DFD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <WD8x6.409$fB6.11069@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  >mA >  I am looking for the device codes returned by the OpenVMS V6.2i@ >  (and later) SYS$ETC:SCSI_INFO.EXE tool, and specifically with >  CD-R and CD-RW disk drives. {...snip...}   Yamaha CRW4416S:   $! Issuing INQUIRY QIOW  $!$ $!   SCSI Inquiry Data (58 bytes) :  $!> $!      000:  05 80 02 02 27 00 00 10 59 41 4D 41 48 41 20 20 > $!      010:  43 52 57 34 34 31 36 53 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 > $!      020:  31 2E 30 66 32 30 2F 30 31 2F 39 39 00 00 00 00 , $!      030:  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  $!" $!	Peripheral Device Type : CD-ROM $!  $!	Peripheral Device Qualifier : $!: $!		Peripheral device type supported & connected to target $!# $!	Vendor Identification : YAMAHA  a $!+ $!	Product Identification: CRW4416S        a $! $!	Product Revision Level: 1.0fe $! $!	ANSI Information: $! $!		Complies to SCSI-2 $! $!	ISO Information:- $!8 $!		0 - does not claim ISO SCSI (ISO IS 9316) compliance $! $!	ECMA Information: $!6 $!		0 - does not claim ECMA SCSI (ECMA-111) compliance $! $!	Removable Media: Yes> $! $!	AEN Capability: No  $! $!	Command Queuing: No $!% $!	16-Bit Wide Bus Data Transfers: No  $!% $!	32-Bit Wide Bus Data Transfers: Noc $! $!	Linked Commands: No $! $!	Soft Reset Alternative: Non $! $!	Relative Addressing: No $!" $!	Synchronous Data Transfers: Yes $!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMw             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.-   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:13:01 -0600 (CST)m From: sms@antinode.orgC Subject: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data / Yamaha CRW4416S-) Message-ID: <01033021130179@antinode.org>n  = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  > Yamaha CRW4416S:  D    Coincidentally, I just hooked mine back up to my AlpSta 200 4/233I (VMS V7.2-1), after consolidating the two old disks onto one newer disk. sH With the shorter SCSI cables, it no longer completely paralyzes the SCSI bus.   > $! Issuing INQUIRY QIOWI      Mine's slightly different:n  # $!   SCSI Inquiry Data (58 bytes) :. $!= $!      000:  05 80 02 02 27 00 00 10 59 41 4D 41 48 41 20 20 = $!      010:  43 52 57 34 34 31 36 53 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20m= $!      020:  31 2E 30 68 30 39 2F 30 39 2F 39 39 00 00 00 00n+ $!      030:  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  [...]D$ $!      Product Revision Level: 1.0h  ?    Even with the shorter cables, it still appears at every LUN:t   alp $ show device dkat  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP ALP$DKA0:               Mounted              2  VMS072ALP     15133685   545   1. ALP$DKA400:             Online               0. ALP$DKA500:             Online               0  . Device                  Device           Error.  Name                   Status           Count. ALP$DKA501:             Offline              1. ALP$DKA502:             Offline              1. ALP$DKA503:             Offline              1. ALP$DKA504:             Offline              1. ALP$DKA505:             Offline              1. ALP$DKA506:             Offline              1. ALP$DKA507:             Offline              1  D    Is there an approved way to suppress the extras, or should I stop+ caring, or am I the only one who gets them?h  H    Also, running CDRECORD 1.8.1 (slightly modified), I did a "-dummy" ofE about a full disk worth and got about 170 errors on PKA0:.  Normal orc not?  H    Is "%MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format" the best I can expect whenD trying to mount a normal CD-ROM on the thing?  That's with the block size jumper installed.  F    I haven't tried it lately, but as I recall, booting from it failed, too.  B    Comments from anyone with relevant experience would be welcome.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:38:53 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.orgC Subject: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data / Yamaha CRW4416Sa) Message-ID: <01033022385291@antinode.org>i  @    And while I'm whining, if I turn off the power on the (YamahaE CDR4416S) thing, I start getting more errors on PKA0:.  If the system<H can't really use the thing, I would see it as more gracious if it didn't0 log "Target Timed Out" errors when it goes away.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)}C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)?G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)f9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 02:48:22 GMTp# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>p% Subject: Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha?t- Message-ID: <3AC54567.B1A9D3A5@earthlink.net>F   Paul Repacholi wrote:o > % > Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com> writes:  > D > > > DECUS says they're for VAX/VMS but I remember just fortran the/ > > > last time I compiled it, a few years ago.e > 0 > That is an OLD SPICE. The current one is in C.  D I should have been more specific.  The first one I listed is FORTRANB but the newer one, and the second listed, is purported to be C.  I( don't have any experience with that one.  B Anyone know what sort of new features or fixes went along with the switch to C?     -- Aaron Sliwinski   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:41:33 GMTn5 From: Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org>l% Subject: THE EMC Chronicles - revised / Message-ID: <3AC48D02.60F8E941@childrenshc.org>o  E It has come to my attention that there are some concerns regarding myf. earlier post regarding EMC Symmetrics and VMS.  E There are a few things I wish to make abundantly clear to any and allh that read these postings.e  E 1.) The opinions and views I express are strictly my own. They may orA1 may not be the opinions and views of my employer.r  F 2.) It is my hope that any concerns, questions, or replies to my viewsH are directed to me, personally, and NOT through my employer. Personally,G I feel that going through my employer without first talking to me is at  best unprofessional.  B 3.) I am in no way responsible for comments made in response to myB postings. And if those responses offend anyone, then it is for the8 concerned parties, not me, to resolve these differences.    C Now, Regarding the EMC Symmetric hardware and the chronicles postedc here.)  H 1.) EMC did not 'smooze' management into the purchase. It was a detailedG and drawn out process that lead to the selection of EMC as the solutiont? to our requirements. Other vendors were included in the review.   C 2.) While there were problems mentioned in the chronicles, with the H exception of one problem, all problems were resolved AND included in theH posting. BTW, that problem has a solution, the solution was not known at the time of the posting.  H 3.) Three (3) days ago (Wednesday Morning), we successfully accomplishedD the first of a two-phase migration of our production data to the EMC based storage.  G 4.) From a technical stand-point, everything we wish to accomplish withtF EMC appears do-able. While some of our objectives are not as elegantly< solved as I would hope, others are in actually more elagant.  F 5.) Nothing in the article I posted is a false-hood. As far as I know.H Everything I wrote, is as true as I know it to be. If any information is: incorrect or inaccurate, it is not intentional in any way.     -- rF My opinions are mine and mine alone. They should never be misconstrued as a policy of my employer.    Lyndon F. Bartels    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:58:38 -0500n' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ) Subject: Re: THE EMC Chronicles - reviseds( Message-ID: <9a2v5a$6qd$1@pyrite.mv.net>  L What at least *seems* to be abundantly clear is that someone landed - hard -I on Lyndon.  The question now is, was that reaction EMC-instigated, or didc0 someone in c.o.v. do something foolish, or what?   - bill  @ Lyndon Bartels <lyndon.bartels@childrenshc.org> wrote in message) news:3AC48D02.60F8E941@childrenshc.org...oG > It has come to my attention that there are some concerns regarding myi0 > earlier post regarding EMC Symmetrics and VMS. >iG > There are a few things I wish to make abundantly clear to any and alld > that read these postings.e > G > 1.) The opinions and views I express are strictly my own. They may or 3 > may not be the opinions and views of my employer.  >tH > 2.) It is my hope that any concerns, questions, or replies to my viewsJ > are directed to me, personally, and NOT through my employer. Personally,I > I feel that going through my employer without first talking to me is ate > best unprofessional. > D > 3.) I am in no way responsible for comments made in response to myD > postings. And if those responses offend anyone, then it is for the: > concerned parties, not me, to resolve these differences. >d >rE > Now, Regarding the EMC Symmetric hardware and the chronicles posteda > here.a > J > 1.) EMC did not 'smooze' management into the purchase. It was a detailedI > and drawn out process that lead to the selection of EMC as the solution2A > to our requirements. Other vendors were included in the review.R >FE > 2.) While there were problems mentioned in the chronicles, with therJ > exception of one problem, all problems were resolved AND included in theJ > posting. BTW, that problem has a solution, the solution was not known at > the time of the posting. >eJ > 3.) Three (3) days ago (Wednesday Morning), we successfully accomplishedF > the first of a two-phase migration of our production data to the EMC > based storage. > I > 4.) From a technical stand-point, everything we wish to accomplish with-H > EMC appears do-able. While some of our objectives are not as elegantly> > solved as I would hope, others are in actually more elagant. >rH > 5.) Nothing in the article I posted is a false-hood. As far as I know.J > Everything I wrote, is as true as I know it to be. If any information is< > incorrect or inaccurate, it is not intentional in any way. >r >d > --H > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They should never be misconstrued > as a policy of my employer.  >% > Lyndon F. BartelsR   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 03:38:07 GMTQ$ From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: THE EMC Chronicles - revisedG: Message-ID: <zicx6.5163$V6.246983@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>   Bill Todd wrote:  L > What at least *seems* to be abundantly clear is that someone landed - hard > -[K > on Lyndon.  The question now is, was that reaction EMC-instigated, or didn2 > someone in c.o.v. do something foolish, or what?  L That's the $64K question.  Lyndon happens to be located in this area, and I J responded via e-mail to Lyndon to some of his comments, and I also happen I to be an EMC customer (although not for the VMScluster), but I certainly =- didn't pass his comments on to anyone else.  =  $ Somebody out there is watching us...  J Sheesh, if someone out there went to my employer with comments about what H I'd be posted, and they didn't talk to me first, I'd be pissed.  On the I other hand, I don't post from a company address, and my employer doesn't aJ pay for my Internet access at home (they want to but I won't let them) so @ in no way can my comments be construed to come from my employer.  	    .../Ede   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:21:53 -0500.. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>B Subject: Re: They still don't get it (incremental backups and XQP)+ Message-ID: <9a2pqn$9qd$1@bob.news.rcn.net>C  < On VMS 7.3 EFT2, you still see the described behavior; i.e.,   $create/dir [.empty]
 $dir/date=all    note all dates..  # copy bunches of files into [.empty]    $dir/date=all/size=all  < Size has gone up, modification date has been changed as well= to the last set of files that made the directory size change.e  B Sorry for my missing this, but why is this change to the .dir fileA considered 'spurious'?  Granted, it may be annoying, but the filenE did change.  I suppose according to this logic, anything that changes:D any entry in the .dir file should cause the mod date to get changed.   Ken RandellW    + John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in messagef0 news:1010330122633.43670A-100000@Ives.egh.com...   [snip]  @ > Someone please try my original problem in FT7.3 and report theB > results.  (Create a directory, e.g. [.foo].  Create files in the@ > directory until the size changes in "$ dir/size foo.dir".  See@ > if the "modified" date, shown by "$ dir/date=modified foo.dir"0 > changes when the size changes.  It shouldn't.) >a > --
 > John Santosr > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:22:44 -0500t  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>B Subject: Re: They still don't get it (incremental backups and XQP)6 Message-ID: <1010330153942.43670B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  + On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Kenneth Randell wrote:-  > > On VMS 7.3 EFT2, you still see the described behavior; i.e., >  > $create/dir [.empty] > $dir/date=all- >  > note all dates.. > % > copy bunches of files into [.empty]h >  > $dir/date=all/size=all > > > Size has gone up, modification date has been changed as well? > to the last set of files that made the directory size change.A > D > Sorry for my missing this, but why is this change to the .dir fileC > considered 'spurious'?  Granted, it may be annoying, but the filetG > did change.  I suppose according to this logic, anything that changesAF > any entry in the .dir file should cause the mod date to get changed. > 
 > Ken Randell   E 1) behaviour is different from all previous versions of VMS.  (V7.2-1V@ out-of-the-box and earlier, both VAX and Alpha, only changed theB mod date if some real directory attribute was changed, such as itsE name (i.e. rename the .dir file), its protection code, owner, version3A limit, ACL's, etc.  Post the V7.2-1 F11B ECO, it now also changes + the mod date on a file size change as well.!  E 2) The change occurs at what appears to be a random time to the user. @ The user did *NOT* do anything intentionally to the directory toD change it.  All he did was create & delete files, and at some randomB time, totally out of the user's control, the XQP decided it neededD to expand or shrink the directory file as a result.  Since directoryA internals are un-documented, the user has no way of knowing which C particular file creation or deletion is going to cause the mod date # to change, so behavior is *RANDOM*.0  @ 3) It breaks incremental backups.  At about VMS V6.2, DEC/Compaq@ changed the way incremental backups (/SINCE=BACKUP) work.  Prior= to that time, it only backed up files whose mod date was morevC recent than its backup date.  After the change, BACKUP also selectsdA any file if any directory in the path to that file has a modified!? date more recent than the backup date of that directory.  (I.E.rB it is comparing the mod and backup dates of each directory as wellH as those for each file, and then backing up all files and subdirectories? in any directory that is selected.  There was a good reason for = this change; certain rename (and maybe other operations) on ao@ directory could cause an incremental restore (restoring an imageA backup and any subsequent incremanal backups) to restore the diskuA differently than it existed prior to the last incremental backup.=  ? However, creating or deleting files in a directory was *NOT* an ) operation that caused incorrect restores.r  = 4) The change in item 3 created an uproar.  The circumstances/< that broke a restore were rare and unusual, and didn't apply; most of the time when a directory was modified.  (E.G. justn; changing the version limit wouldn't cause a problem, but ifm: you changed the version limit, suddenly all the files were< getting backed up.  DEC/Compaq provided many workarounds for> people who understood the issues and wanted the old behaviour.= First, you could do a dummy backup of all the directory filesr9 with /record to update the backup date, before doing your08 real backup.  Later (V7.0 and an ECO to V6.2 IIRC), they: provided a logical name you could define that would change> backup's behaviour.  In V7.2, there is a new backup qualifier,7 /noincremental, which causes the old behaviour.  It wasR: specifically added to backup for this reason.  The new ECO8 kit I just received invalidates use of /incremental with? /since=backup, thus subverting the V7.2 qualifier's usefulness.4    > 5) It is inconsistent.  If there were any reason to change theD modification date on a directory when files got created, that reason@ would apply equally if only one file were created or if hundreds? were, but the revision date only gets changed when enough fileso= are created to change the size of the directory, not when anyN file is created.  B 6) The big one, it causes incremental backups to become enormously8 larger and more time-consuming for absolutely no reason.  B Two examples:  at a customer site, there is normally a backup madeA of modified sources and executables to an emergency recovery diskP> each night during their end-of-day processing.  The end-of-day> processing normally takes about 1 1/2 hours, during which time@ the system is unavailable for normal use.  The backup of sources@ and executables is usually about 2-3 minutes of this time.  LotsD of time and effort has been spent to make this end-of-day processingB as quick as possible; the customer would really like it to be lessB than an hour.  Since applying the problematic ECO, the incremental> backup of the sources and executables still takes 2-3 minutes,A unless some directory higher in the directory tree has gotten itseB revision date randomly changed, in which case the backup now takesA well over an hour!  Needless to say, they don't like this at all.'  B 2nd example: every night my company runs a batch job to backup all@ the modified files (i.e. an incremental backup) of all the disks> on our cluster (12 disks, mostly RZ29's) to an 8mm tape.  This= used to fit easily on one tape.  Every weekend, do full image ? backups of all the disks, each to its own tape to make recovery ? easier.  The system is mostly used for software development, so B most of the new/modified files over the course of a week are 1-100< blocks.  Since the change to directory date handling, random; changes cause enormous subtrees, many of which haven't been ? modified in years, to get backed up on the incremental backups. ? By the end of the week, it usually requires 2-3 tapes to do then@ backup and takes 6 times as long.  No longer can someone pop out> last night's tape, pop in tonight's, and go home expecting the> backup to be finished by the time they come in in the morning.A Instead, the overflow tapes must get made during the day, slowing1> the system down, and causing lots of extra manual intervention (swapping tapes.)   A Everyone on the newsgroup should remember what went down in V6.2.5= Those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it.    --   John Santos1 Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:22:58 -0500s( From: Yoonpyo Hong <yoonp5@dreamwiz.com>1 Subject: VMS Performance Analysis Tool comparisonn& Message-ID: <3AD6026E@MailAndNews.com>   Hi AllJ I'm looking for approprite tool for vms performance analysis using WindowsF environment. Now I'm comparing some packages like PAWZ, ViewPoint(now G SightLine). Anybody have comparison report or information, let me know.b   Thanks.   < ------------------------------------------------------------8  Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:&                 http://MailAndNews.com  7  Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 orv4  POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.< ------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:31:40 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>-* Subject: Re: VMS source listings omittings, Message-ID: <3AC5337C.CB628CCC@infopuls.com>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:/ > $ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > I > On 25 Mar 2001, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.412538.killspam.015a (Wayne Sewell)t > wrote:5 > >In article <99kkl6$pjj$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>, Roarg9 > >=?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> writes:e > >g > >>B > >> Redesign of Unix and Windows might not be that easy, or what? > >> > >  > >aM > >You can't *re*design something that was never designed in the first place.- > K > Why bother designing anything when the customer can be convinced that theS1 > prototype is the best thing since sliced bread.e > 9 > Coming soon (a candidate for next year's Oscars?) . . .  > 5 >                  Windoze 2001, a Marketing Odyssey.p >  > And from The Q?- > . >                          Plan 9 for OpenVMS. >  > Doc. >  > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----n > Version: 2.6.2 > B > iQEVAwUBOr54csriC3SGiziTAQGYyAgAqVi8BCJ/qMwT3XtMuPv6Q4WamhOkpQm2B > Igg4ctOxGKZs3brxtkREflpAcn91Ao00yi7UzoMdWCiamiOGeoM9hcia5Dd7r/trB > 1eurdXNjp5iSL10Hv473S59wn99lHOnUssrv+ThLtv4ucUvlKt+llkdW78idpEeHB > VXgnCLlI9WkAZ7yhhScv/k6HXKF4l0S3vxZaPd9iJBTq1mgnl5RkSUAedCA0I2U2B > Wsh7RocYiyAW6iiN/ruLJZtLyDZq+Uk+vBCUeCZKdWpbxV9MVUdzT4lXBEznM9Yn: > MBvKAZ8+eA63Wo2lcV0NHVx/7dvC0AmuE+nGbOrEDOCYWgs9wvJqHw== > =kc1s, > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----o  
 Brilliant :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Mar 2001 21:47:02 GMT/ From: Hans.Bachner@altavista.net (Hans Bachner)h9 Subject: Re: VMS: DECNet to TCP/IP migration help wanted.-( Message-ID: <9a35tb.b0.1@hans.myfqdn.de>  6 Dan Cook (danco@cx48228-c.escnd1.sdca.home.com) wrote:  B >On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:31:13 +0200, \)_ex <luctor@emer.go> wrote: >c* >>Helas, Gorazd, phase V is not an option. > H >Is using Multinet TCP/IP instead of UCX an option?  You can encapsulate! >DECnet over IP using Multinet.    <snip>  D You can run DECnet over IP with UCX / TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS as@ well. I don't know much about Multinet, but doesn't it also needC DECnet-Plus (aka DECnet/OSI aka DECnet Phase V) to run it over IP?     Hans.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:55:38 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)9 Subject: Re: VMS: DECNet to TCP/IP migration help wanted.a2 Message-ID: <K98x6.407$fB6.11099@news.cpqcorp.net>  Z In article <9a35tb.b0.1@hans.myfqdn.de>, Hans.Bachner@altavista.net (Hans Bachner) writes:  E :You can run DECnet over IP with UCX / TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS ashA :well. I don't know much about Multinet, but doesn't it also need D :DECnet-Plus (aka DECnet/OSI aka DECnet Phase V) to run it over IP?   B   Compaq TCP/IP Services and (AFAIK) all third-party IP stacks allA   permit DECnet-Plus operations over IP.  Process MultiNet has anrA   additional mechanism that also permits DECnet Phase IV over IP.l  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:09:59 GMTt5 From: danco@cx48228-c.escnd1.sdca.home.com (Dan Cook)w9 Subject: Re: VMS: DECNet to TCP/IP migration help wanted. - Message-ID: <slrn9ca4rt.21d.danco@pebble.org>s  M On 30 Mar 2001 21:47:02 GMT, Hans Bachner <Hans.Bachner@altavista.net> wrote:h  E >You can run DECnet over IP with UCX / TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS as.A >well. I don't know much about Multinet, but doesn't it also neednD >DECnet-Plus (aka DECnet/OSI aka DECnet Phase V) to run it over IP?   E Multinet can do it _without_ DECnet/OSI aka DECnet Phase V.  Not onlytG can it do "DECnet over IP", it can also do "IP over DECnet" (of all the  strange things to want to do.)   - Danv   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:45:06 +0200$+ From: Richard Levitte <levitte@openssl.org>b6 Subject: [ANNOUNCEMENT] OpenSSL 0.9.6a Beta 3 released/ Message-ID: <20010330224505.A28644@openssl.org>C  B The third beta release of OpenSSL 0.9.6a is now available from the6 OpenSSL FTP site <URL: ftp://ftp.openssl.org/source/>.  C OpenSSL 0.9.6a is a bug-fix release of version 0.9.6, and currentlytH contains 52 documented changes.  Among others, this release should buildH on all Windows platforms, which 0.9.6 failed to do.  Just as for versionH 0.9.6, this one comes in two variants, one containing the now well-known5 ENGINE code and one that doesn't.  The tar files are:r   	openssl-0.9.6a-beta3.tar.gz# 	openssl-engine-0.9.6a-beta3.tar.gz   0 The news section for 0.9.6a gives the following:  ?       o Security fix: change behavior of OpenSSL to avoid usingl3         environment variables when running as root.l?       o Security fix: check the result of RSA-CRT to reduce theeC         possibility of deducing the private key from an incorrectlym         calculated signature. :       o Security fix: prevent Bleichenbacher's DSA attack.B       o Security fix: Zero the premaster secret after deriving the)         master secret in DH ciphersuites.h;       o Reimplement SSL_peek(), which had various problems.i@       o Compatibility fix: the function des_encrypt() renamed to>         des_encrypt1() to avoid clashes with some Unixen libc.,       o Bug fixes for Win32, HP/UX and Irix.B       o Bug fixes in BIGNUM, SSL, PKCS#7, PKCS#12, X.509, CONF and!         memory checking routines.h=       o Bug fixes for RSA operations in threaded enviroments.i0       o Bug fixes in misc. openssl applications.,       o Remove a few potential memory leaks..       o Add tighter checks of BIGNUM routines.@       o Shared library support has been reworked for generality.       o More documentation. %       o New function BN_rand_range(). <       o Add "-rand" option to openssl s_client and s_server.  O The next (hopefully real) release is scheduled for Tuesday 2001-04-03.  To make N sure that it will work correctly, please test this version (especially on lessI common platforms), and report any problems to <openssl-bugs@openssl.org>.o   --+ Richard Levitte         levitte@openssl.orgo8 OpenSSL Project         http://www.openssl.org/~levitte/? Software Engineer, Celo Communications: http://www.celocom.com/i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:39:24 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-3 Subject: Re: [Q] param to increase for unsuff SPTE? 0 Message-ID: <009F9CAF.AD8160EF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <3AC4D4BD.808BC0B3@clarityconnect.com>, "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> writes:I >How big is this section that is trying to be mapped?  You really need toaI >get more info out of RDB as to what service is being called and what areeH >the arguments to the failing call.  It looks like this DB is too big to  >fit into the available S0 space  " Two, maybe three, days ago I said:  6   Sounds like you're asking too much of your S0 space.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM=             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 20:10:25 GMT'1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>b3 Subject: Re: [Q] param to increase for unsuff SPTE?o2 Message-ID: <3AC4E8A4.5A3DFD66@clarityconnect.com>  E I know, I sing this tune very well but it seems hard to get anyone toa> join me especially when they can't/won't provide the requestedG information :*(  It' be plainly obvious once we had what system service54 call returned the error and what the arguments were.  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > h > In article <3AC4D4BD.808BC0B3@clarityconnect.com>, "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> writes:K > >How big is this section that is trying to be mapped?  You really need toaK > >get more info out of RDB as to what service is being called and what are J > >the arguments to the failing call.  It looks like this DB is too big to" > >fit into the available S0 space > $ > Two, maybe three, days ago I said: > 8 >   Sounds like you're asking too much of your S0 space. >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMg > Q > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    -- .D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:39:50 +0200e, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>3 Subject: Re: [Q] param to increase for unsuff SPTE?.& Message-ID: <3AC56DA6.DBD4D134@gmx.ch>  
 Gentlemen,  N You maybe are very familiar with "system service call" within Rdb, I am not. IP am a poor VMS software person. The only thing I know about "system service call"M is what I program within FORTRAN sources since 19 years. I have no clue aboutnI the way to know which "system service call" SQL could request when I do a>" "select * from FD;" A READ, maybe?  O Do you want me to enable XQP debugging mode, or do you wish that I call back Mr L Clinton to help, or should I ask Mr Bush to vote a special tax cut so that IP will have more money to go to GKN and ask for an Rdb training they don't provideP anymore, or should I go to the Parsec Group or Mr Burden's company, and you will( pay for the ticket Bern Boston? Or what?   Thanks for your comprehension.  L This issue is a COMPAQ issue. The error message *is* incorrect from the HELPK facility. It gives a solution for VAX only. What is the solution for ALPHA,g then?h  O (anyway, I'll increase GBLPAGES and GBLSECTIONS and I'll figure out by myself).    D.I (I don't particularily like waking up at 6 to go testing a Saturday...:-)V     "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:r > G > I know, I sing this tune very well but it seems hard to get anyone tot@ > join me especially when they can't/won't provide the requestedI > information :*(  It' be plainly obvious once we had what system service 6 > call returned the error and what the arguments were. > ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > >t& > > Two, maybe three, days ago I said: > >h: > >   Sounds like you're asking too much of your S0 space.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.180 ************************