1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 01 May 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 242       Contents:H Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To Wiped)H Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To Wiped) Capellas Knows VMS Re: Capellas Knows VMS Re: Capellas Knows VMS Re: Capellas Knows VMS Re: Capellas Knows VMS  RE: DEC-C: calculated constants.  Re: DEC-C: calculated constants.  Re: DEC-C: calculated constants.  Re: DEC-C: calculated constants.  Re: DEC-C: calculated constants.  Re: DECnet-Plus and PS17 Printer Decserver 100,PS0801ENG.SYS? Re: DFWDAYS a Big Success  Re: DFWDAYS a Big Success  Easy Multinet ftp question... ! Re: Easy Multinet ftp question...  Re: Heroix eQ Management Suite  Re: How to change file timestamp  Re: How to change file timestamp  Re: How to change file timestamp  Re: How to change file timestamp' MIME Encoder on OpenVMS in C available? + Re: MIME Encoder on OpenVMS in C available? + Re: MIME Encoder on OpenVMS in C available? 7 RE: Mounting and Management station: comments please... / RE: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!  OpenVMS Freeware V5.0 On-line > Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98> Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98> Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98> Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98> Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98> Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98> Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98> Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98> Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98N Re: seeking performance numbers for distributed lock manager traffic via  FDDI! Re: source code tracking software ! RE: source code tracking software ! Re: source code tracking software ! Re: source code tracking software ! Re: source code tracking software  Re: Sync Comm - PCI Card- Test!  Please post a response if you see this 1 Re: Test!  Please post a response if you see this 1 Re: Test!  Please post a response if you see this 1 Re: Warning: EV68/833 and Oracle Rdb incompatible 2 Re: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetski5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 RE: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 RE: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% D Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% - WAAAAY OT!!!D Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% - WAAAAY OT!!!  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:55:17 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)Q Subject: Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To Wiped) 0 Message-ID: <9blH6.369$5I.7462@news.cpqcorp.net>  N In article <VA.00000378.24e8d2bd@sture.ch>, Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> writes:   ..) .. [$ logout :== @sys$startup:logout.com]  ..G :And in that context, to logout without executing that DCL file, LOGOFF  :works nicely.  H   There are a number of ways to log off without triggering a LOGOUT.COM G   established via the LOGOUT symbol.  The seldom-used EOJ command, via  G   a self-delprc via STOP/ID=0, via the modem or terminal server hangup  5   processing, via ^Y^YYES on a SET HOST session, etc.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 01:45:53 +0100 ; From: Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> Q Subject: Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To Wiped) 8 Message-ID: <3AEE0741.C57B6DB3@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > P > In article <VA.00000378.24e8d2bd@sture.ch>, Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> writes: >  > ..+ > .. [$ logout :== @sys$startup:logout.com]  > ..I > :And in that context, to logout without executing that DCL file, LOGOFF  > :works nicely. > I >   There are a number of ways to log off without triggering a LOGOUT.COM H >   established via the LOGOUT symbol.  The seldom-used EOJ command, viaH >   a self-delprc via STOP/ID=0, via the modem or terminal server hangup7 >   processing, via ^Y^YYES on a SET HOST session, etc.   C I use EOJ all the time. (Started using it at university, just to be 
 different ;-)   F Another idea is to use LOGOUTTTT or similar. DCL will still parse this
 as a validH command and ignore symbol definitions. I've seen many command procedures use DELETEE E for similar reasons. NB: not tested, may not apply to LOGOUT command.  but try anyway  C Another favourite odd way of logging out I used to use was MCR DCL,  which producedG an error message about CLI tables (I think) and terminated the process.  This has< since been fixed, though. (I believe this was VAX/VMS 5.5-2)  G I taught one of the NT people at work their first VMS command the other % day. Unfortunately, it was LOGOUT ;-)   	 -Malcolm.  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:04:41 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Capellas Knows VMS < Message-ID: <tzjH6.6022$e85.2469624@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  J During the 1FQ CPQ Earnings Conference last week, Michael Capellas spoketh thusly:   K "...VMS actually has continued to have more and more growth. We've extended J some of the VMS capabilities through a project called Galaxy, which allowsK us to do interoperability. We've also put some Web tools on it. You'll want F to continue to remember that some of the world's most mission criticalG applications continue to run on that platform, and both from a customer F point of view and quite frankly from continuing to need to support theI market we're talking about hospitals and military installations and very, L very sensitive things. So, I mean, that is a market that we continue to makeJ sure. And by the way, in the world of fault tolerance it's a pretty stable environment.     -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net$ Web (info on SKC):  www.acersoft.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:11:36 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Capellas Knows VMS L Message-ID: <rdeininger-3004012111360001@user-2ive6ih.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <tzjH6.6022$e85.2469624@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.+ Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   L > During the 1FQ CPQ Earnings Conference last week, Michael Capellas spoketh	 > thusly:  > M > "...VMS actually has continued to have more and more growth. We've extended L > some of the VMS capabilities through a project called Galaxy, which allowsM > us to do interoperability. We've also put some Web tools on it. You'll want H > to continue to remember that some of the world's most mission criticalI > applications continue to run on that platform, and both from a customer H > point of view and quite frankly from continuing to need to support theK > market we're talking about hospitals and military installations and very, N > very sensitive things. So, I mean, that is a market that we continue to makeL > sure. And by the way, in the world of fault tolerance it's a pretty stable > environment.  I He seems to have got quite a bit right.  I think that some of these words F felt very strange and unfamiliar coming out of his mouth.  I would sayC he's either learning, or he was well coached.  I suggest an "A" for   improvement since the last time.  1 Still, he's not _quite_ ready for the final exam:   C "...project called Galaxy, which allows us to do interoperability." I (You can "do interoperability" with a piece of string between 2 tin cans;  Galaxy offers a bit more.)  , Maybe he only gets a "B-" for comprehension.  L And I'm glad he got through the whole paragraph without uttering the L-word.  F With some extra tutoring after school, I think he'll be up to speed in another few quarters.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 21:53:34 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Capellas Knows VMS 3 Message-ID: <rxIXeI88bm$z@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-3004012111360001@user-2ive6ih.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: H > In article <tzjH6.6022$e85.2469624@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.- > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   3 > Still, he's not _quite_ ready for the final exam:  > E > "...project called Galaxy, which allows us to do interoperability." K > (You can "do interoperability" with a piece of string between 2 tin cans;  > Galaxy offers a bit more.) > . > Maybe he only gets a "B-" for comprehension. > N > And I'm glad he got through the whole paragraph without uttering the L-word. > H > With some extra tutoring after school, I think he'll be up to speed in > another few quarters.   J And how good are _you_ at extraneous speeches before securities analysts ?  H "Interoperability" is a buzzword they have heard, and might even be able7 to spell correctly in their notes based on his remarks.   N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 02:59:25 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Capellas Knows VMS < Message-ID: <hEpH6.6213$e85.2710547@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-3004012111360001@user-2ive6ih.dialup.mindspring.com...H > In article <tzjH6.6022$e85.2469624@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.- > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  > F > > During the 1FQ CPQ Earnings Conference last week, Michael Capellas spoketh  > > thusly:  > > F > > "...VMS actually has continued to have more and more growth. We've extendedG > > some of the VMS capabilities through a project called Galaxy, which  allowsJ > > us to do interoperability. We've also put some Web tools on it. You'll wantJ > > to continue to remember that some of the world's most mission criticalK > > applications continue to run on that platform, and both from a customer J > > point of view and quite frankly from continuing to need to support theG > > market we're talking about hospitals and military installations and  very, K > > very sensitive things. So, I mean, that is a market that we continue to  makeG > > sure. And by the way, in the world of fault tolerance it's a pretty  stable > > environment. > K > He seems to have got quite a bit right.  I think that some of these words H > felt very strange and unfamiliar coming out of his mouth.  I would sayE > he's either learning, or he was well coached.  I suggest an "A" for " > improvement since the last time. > 3 > Still, he's not _quite_ ready for the final exam:  > E > "...project called Galaxy, which allows us to do interoperability." K > (You can "do interoperability" with a piece of string between 2 tin cans;  > Galaxy offers a bit more.) > . > Maybe he only gets a "B-" for comprehension.  K Considering the audience to whom he was speaking, I'd say MC exhibited more I than enough comprehension. Herewith the financial analyst's question, and  MC's response.H ANALYST: And then secondly, the question I have for Michael, the messageL today is that you've been willing to take some tough decisions. A year and aJ half ago you consolidated your platforms, eliminated NT and Alpha and UnixH on Intel. Can you tell us at this stage whether there is any incrementalI change in your commitment to the various platforms, whether it's True 64, + Alpha, VMS, Himalaya, et cetera? Thank you.   G MC: Yeah, a year ago we made a different consolidation of the different K platforms for a couple of different reasons. The first one is I did believe K there was some confusion and almost competition across our product line and J particularly with the customers in terms of where these different productsF existed. So I'll be I hope relatively clear with this. One is HimalayaL continues to be a great play for very large fault-tolerant data stores whereJ you really need that with a particular emphasis on both telecommunicationsJ and of financial services. We have positioned Himalaya to where you reallyK need huge truly, truly fault tolerant systems, and as we're learning is we' 9 re the only offering in the marketplace they can do that.   J We're going to continue to expand that data store capability into a coupleG of new vertical markets, particularly in the retail space. And as I was J thinking about our commentaries on different vertical markets, this is oneK where we continue to take what we learned about stock exchanges and massive G volumes of fault-tolerant data to really build large data stores in the J retail space, companies like Target, JC Penney, and so we're continuing to1 work on those -- Disney is another great example.   L So absolutely no question that Himalaya, fault tolerance, extending what we'J ve learned about stock exchanges, and extending our footprint in the stockL exchanges, where as you know we have now virtually the whole market with the& top 15. So that product line is clear.  J We're continuing to work with Tru64 and its advantages to clustering. WhatL you have seen us do is to take a very, very tight partnership with Oracle toG maximize the advantage of that clustering. We are not saying that we're I going to be a broad brushed Unix player around Tru64, but put that in the % vertical market where it makes sense.   L One of the areas we said we'd step up on was in supercomputing and very highI performance computing, and I think that record speaks for itself, and you H heard me talk about that; continue to use it for high-speed switching in6 telecommunications, continue to use it around on ATMs.  C On both Tru64, the go-to-market coupled with Oracle, as well as the H advantage of the clustering still is a play. Where you need that kind of) capability, it's very clearly positioned.   L VMS actually has continued to have more and more growth. We've extended someK of the VMS capabilities through a project called Galaxy, which allows us to H do interoperability. We've also put some Web tools on it. You'll want toC continue to remember that some of the world's most mission critical G applications continue to run on that platform, and both from a customer F point of view and quite frankly from continuing to need to support theI market we're talking about hospitals and military installations and very, L very sensitive things. So, I mean, that is a market that we continue to makeK sure. And by the way, and the world of fault tolerance it's a pretty stable2 environment...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:20:58 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>n Subject: Re: Capellas Knows VMS ( Message-ID: <9cldhb$ekk$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageK6 news:hEpH6.6213$e85.2710547@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...   ...t  H > Considering the audience to whom he was speaking, I'd say MC exhibited moreK > than enough comprehension. Herewith the financial analyst's question, and  > MC's response.J > ANALYST: And then secondly, the question I have for Michael, the messageL > today is that you've been willing to take some tough decisions. A year and aoL > half ago you consolidated your platforms, eliminated NT and Alpha and UnixJ > on Intel. Can you tell us at this stage whether there is any incrementalK > change in your commitment to the various platforms, whether it's True 64,n- > Alpha, VMS, Himalaya, et cetera? Thank you.C >aI > MC: Yeah, a year ago we made a different consolidation of the differentnE > platforms for a couple of different reasons. The first one is I did  believepI > there was some confusion and almost competition across our product lined andlL > particularly with the customers in terms of where these different productsH > existed. So I'll be I hope relatively clear with this. One is HimalayaH > continues to be a great play for very large fault-tolerant data stores where L > you really need that with a particular emphasis on both telecommunicationsL > and of financial services. We have positioned Himalaya to where you reallyI > need huge truly, truly fault tolerant systems, and as we're learning isg we'2; > re the only offering in the marketplace they can do that.  >kL > We're going to continue to expand that data store capability into a coupleI > of new vertical markets, particularly in the retail space. And as I wasrL > thinking about our commentaries on different vertical markets, this is oneE > where we continue to take what we learned about stock exchanges andt massivesI > volumes of fault-tolerant data to really build large data stores in the L > retail space, companies like Target, JC Penney, and so we're continuing to3 > work on those -- Disney is another great example.  > J > So absolutely no question that Himalaya, fault tolerance, extending what we'OL > ve learned about stock exchanges, and extending our footprint in the stockJ > exchanges, where as you know we have now virtually the whole market with the ( > top 15. So that product line is clear. > L > We're continuing to work with Tru64 and its advantages to clustering. WhatK > you have seen us do is to take a very, very tight partnership with Oracle  toI > maximize the advantage of that clustering. We are not saying that we're K > going to be a broad brushed Unix player around Tru64, but put that in theo' > vertical market where it makes sense.] >:I > One of the areas we said we'd step up on was in supercomputing and very  highK > performance computing, and I think that record speaks for itself, and you J > heard me talk about that; continue to use it for high-speed switching in8 > telecommunications, continue to use it around on ATMs. >gE > On both Tru64, the go-to-market coupled with Oracle, as well as thetJ > advantage of the clustering still is a play. Where you need that kind of+ > capability, it's very clearly positioned.- >-I > VMS actually has continued to have more and more growth. We've extended  someJ > of the VMS capabilities through a project called Galaxy, which allows us toJ > do interoperability. We've also put some Web tools on it. You'll want toE > continue to remember that some of the world's most mission criticalcI > applications continue to run on that platform, and both from a customer:H > point of view and quite frankly from continuing to need to support theK > market we're talking about hospitals and military installations and very,iI > very sensitive things. So, I mean, that is a market that we continue toe makeF > sure. And by the way, and the world of fault tolerance it's a pretty stable > environment...  J That was quite a mouthful.  Unfortunately, placing the VMS comments in theK context of (and at the tail-end of) the rest is not quite as encouraging asn the out-of-context quote was.-  G Let's see - Tandem is the word for large-scale fault tolerance, and theiK 'cluster' mantle seems clearly to have been passed to Tru64, along with therF tight Oracle connection and supercomputing.  Then we have VMS:  didn'tK really expect it to survive, but it's doing OK, and we're happy to continuecL to sell it into medical and military environments that seem to still want itF (as he said, the world of fault tolerance is pretty stable - meaning IL suspect that *those customers* are stable, i.e., conservative about change -J else Compaq would have succeeded in moving them over to Windows long ago).  I So I'm considerably less optimistic than when I first saw the bare quote.cK The style is all too familiar:  not overtly misleading, but very subject to ) misinterpretation by those who'd like to..   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:52:30 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: RE: DEC-C: calculated constants.E0 Message-ID: <OviH6.350$5I.7199@news.cpqcorp.net>  ] In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEKICHAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:G4 :Why not initialize a static storage class variable?  F   I generally prefer to keep symbols module-local when possible -- andD   when appropriate, of course.  (I've learned that static and externF   variables can be a prime source of some wonderfully subtle bugs, andG   that the associated memory requirements need be carefully considered tK   when linking images containing volumes of these "extra-scope" variables.)d  F   C has static and extern classes around, and you will want to become F   familiar with the rules and the scope for these two storage classes.  D :> I need to have a variable that is used by a subroutine in C which& :> contains a calculated value such as :>, :> double COS90 = cos( M_PI / 180.0 * 90.0 )  L   I'd normally suggest that the programmer permit the compiler to determine I   that this is a constant, but that cosine call may throw this off.  The iJ   compiler will normally make the trade-off of speed vs storage depending A   on the programmer's requested target for the code optimization.s  J :> Do I need to write a  "COS90_init()" routine that calculates the value D :> and stores it in a global variable used by the other routines, orG :> would there be a way to have that constant automatically calculated hG :> during image activation or perhaps stored/calculated by the linker ?M  E   If you know the value, you can certainly insert it directly, eithertC   via linker directives, via a COMMON, via a global section, via anc;   explicit statement, via a program-generated include file:t  !     fopen("magic-constants.h"...) >     fprintf("#define COS90 %f\n", cos( M_PI / 180.0 * 90.0 ));     fclose(...)n  G   If you want really ugly, you could use PATCH -- a PATCH is easiest iflF   you reserve a spot at a known offset and overwrite it, but you couldF   certainly dig through the symbol tables and find the target location   for the PATCH.    E   And yes, you can also use the lib$initialize psect for purposes of aD   initialization during image activation.  (I'd tend to avoid this.)  E :> I would prefer if I didn't need to call some sort of init routine.  :> Is there a better way ?  H   First, determine if this subroutine call is a significant performance J   problem.  Look for the "hottest" code in the application and then -- if G   this cosine call is a performance consideration -- look for solutionse   or alternatives.  G   I happen to like initialization routines -- even if they are hidden, rD   based on a zero context argument passed into a suite of subroutineD   calls or similar such -- as they permit various useful extensions "   and capabilities within the API.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:10:45 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n) Subject: Re: DEC-C: calculated constants. , Message-ID: <3AEDB8B0.86BB49C7@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:l. > :> double COS90 = cos( M_PI / 180.0 * 90.0 )M >   I'd normally suggest that the programmer permit the compiler to determine F >   that this is a constant, but that cosine call may throw this off.   G Exactly. The compiler doesn't allow me to use the above to set a staticvK variableb since it cannot evaluate its value as the compiler has no idea ofm  what result cos(x) would return.    G >   If you know the value, you can certainly insert it directly, either E >   via linker directives, via a COMMON, via a global section, via ana= >   explicit statement, via a program-generated include file:o  Q The value is "very close" to 0 but not quite.  So I need to have the exact value.g  ! EUREKA: I just found a solution:    L I'll write a program that will calculate the value, map the result as a char0 and output the stuff as hexadecimal characters.   N Then, in the actual routine, I will declare the variable, do a union to a charU and assign it the string the hex characters. This way, I should have the exact value.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:47:39 GMTp2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: DEC-C: calculated constants.20 Message-ID: <vjjH6.357$5I.7187@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <3AEDB8B0.86BB49C7@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote:/ :> :> double COS90 = cos( M_PI / 180.0 * 90.0 )tN :>   I'd normally suggest that the programmer permit the compiler to determineG :>   that this is a constant, but that cosine call may throw this off. p :eH :Exactly. The compiler doesn't allow me to use the above to set a staticL :variableb since it cannot evaluate its value as the compiler has no idea of! :what result cos(x) would return.r  G   The compiler does allow you to initialize a static, though not using nB   executable code outside a routine.  The variable initialization G   available outside of a routine is limited to stuff that the compiler  I   itself knows about and can resolve without invoking the code, and thus =I   the variable initialization statement cannot use RTL or external calls.-G   Within a routine, you can initialize any value into the external you =   want at run-time...-  M :I'll write a program that will calculate the value, map the result as a charC1 :and output the stuff as hexadecimal characters. : ..K :Then, in the actual routine, I will declare the variable, do a union to a >K :char and assign it the string the hex characters. This way, I should have e :the exact value.6  C   I would definitely NOT use a union here, particularly when trying5   to load binary data.  C   You CAN initialize the variable very simply and very clearly via:        #include "j-random.h"i     double foo = BAR;k     function()
      {...}   J   where BAR is a floating point value that is loaded into this compilationL   unit via a previously-created #define in j-random application header file.K   This approach is also very portable.  (CDRECORD uses a similar technique,e   for instance.)  M   If you start messing with character strings and unions with floating point rK   values, you can very easily get yourself in trouble.  I would avoid this.s  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:58:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: DEC-C: calculated constants.u, Message-ID: <3AEDD203.BA7A3B8D@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:s >     #include "j-random.h"m >     double foo = BAR;  >     function() >      {...} > L >   where BAR is a floating point value that is loaded into this compilationN >   unit via a previously-created #define in j-random application header file.) >   This approach is also very portable. e  M Because the equation yields a result that is slightly different from platformeK to platform, I must generate a constant that is platform specific so that Io7 can detect whenever the processor generates that value.r  H But silly me, instead of checking if COS(angle) is near 0, I should justN calculate what the angle in radians is and check for that value without a cos.   is instead of    if (cos(angle) is near 0)   
 I would have   if (angle is near 90 or -90)  N It would be far easier to calculate the 90 and -90 degrees in radians and thisK would be accepatble to the comiler to define static variables since it usest1 only simple math without calling an rtl routine).e  I I just blindly implemented formulas without much thinking/optimisation...r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:10:20 GMTd2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: DEC-C: calculated constants.h0 Message-ID: <0xkH6.367$5I.7306@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <3AEDD203.BA7A3B8D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote: :>     #include "j-random.h" :>     double foo = BAR; :>     function()m
 :>      {...}  :> nM :>   where BAR is a floating point value that is loaded into this compilationlO :>   unit via a previously-created #define in j-random application header file.i* :>   This approach is also very portable.  :rN :Because the equation yields a result that is slightly different from platform
 :to platform,,  K   By "platform to platform", I assume you mean different operating systems eM   or considerations such slight differences within the native floating point  $   formats on VAX and those on Alpha.  @ : I must generate a constant that is platform specific so that I8 :can detect whenever the processor generates that value.  J   Given the previous assumption and given the apparent ensuing confusion, H   I am clearly unable to communicate my suggestion.   Let me try again: J   run a small executable tool that builds the include file containing the I   "magic" constant first, then simply appropriately include the generatedeI   include file when you compile the remainder of the application modules.o  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:36:38 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> ) Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus and PS17 Printere' Message-ID: <3AEDCCD6.F72848A9@iee.org>h   Mark Daniel wrote:I > We have configured the MOP and it reports VAXELN loaded when restarted.t# > The queue is created OK and showsa > 0 >   ... on NODENAME::"DECNET/PS17A", mounted ...  ' Just in case a comparison will help ...i  1 I still have a VAXstation with a queue configureds  (although the LPS has now gone!)   The queue shows as  G Printer queue FOO, idle, on MYNODE::MYLPR::, mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT   (stock=DEFAULT) >  /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT))>  /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]H  /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)    /SEPARATE=(BURST,TRAILER)t    $ I am running in the local namespace:  " $ >mc ncl show session control all Node 0 Session Control$ at 2001-04-30-21:08:03.720+01:00Iinf   <snip>'     Naming Search Path                =e          {           [e  %           Directory Service = Local ,'           Template = "*"
           ] ,-           [-%           Directory Service = Local ,0           Template = "local:*"
           ] ,v           [c%           Directory Service = Local ,            Template = "LOCAL:.*"T           ]o        }   <more snip>.  ) and in DECNET_REGISTER if I try a show on7
 	local:.mylpre   I get:   Node name:         LOCAL:.MYLPR  Phase IV synonym:  MYLPR9 Node address:      49::00-01:AA-00-04-00-E1-06:20 (1.737)s       > A > I can see the host name PS17A is being resolved OK by using theLD > CDI$TRACE utility, so I don't think its a naming issue (it also is) > listed by the DECNET_REGISTER utility).  >   : Be sure that the node is registered for NSP (i.e. at least0 one towerset should end in :20 as listed above).  , I'm not 100% sure but I suspect that the LPS- series of printers do not support connectionsm3 via OSITP (that would have been somewhat OTT IMHO).4  & > But submitted jobs eventually report > + >   %DCPS-W-NOT_READY, Printer is not readyfA >   -SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable  >   -DCPS-I-JOB_ID, ...r > G > The LPS supporting host and the PS17 are on the same LAN and have the  > same area number.n > J > I did try substituting "LOCAL:.PS17A" for the destination node but to no > avail.  6 If all else fails try a direct node number. So if your printer is node 1.10, try: 	"1.10"a 	"1034" ( 1*1024 + 10) 	"NET$490001AA0004000A0420"r, 	(The 20 at the end is the TSEl for NSP, the1 	 49 is aassuming that MC NCL SHOW PHASEIV PREFIXi2 	 says 49:: and the 0001 is the hex representation/ 	 of your area number, 1 in the example above). 7 > It was working Saturday morning before the changover!f  > > Any suggestions? (you'd care to have archived by the Web ;^)  H > On a related topic, we have no DTSS server on our site and all systemsD > constantly commenting via OPCOM that there are too few servers outJ > there.  Again (and I know I could scurry through the documentation here,I > but while I'm typing someone might have a one-line solution) any ideas?   6 You can either kill DTSS (there is no supported way of/ doing this but you can write a short bit of NCLT7 that disables and then deletes dtss and invoke it afterh8 DECnet has finished running) or you can read the chapter- that tells you how to kill off specific error 7 messages (I'd tell you how but I don't have the chapter : to hand anymore and I always *needed* the error messages).   Antoniow   -- e   ---------------w- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgc   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 04:34:46 +0200* From: "Martin Brenner" <Martin@Brenner.de>% Subject: Decserver 100,PS0801ENG.SYS?e/ Message-ID: <9cl7g3$90e$07$1@news.t-online.com>o Keywords: Decserver 100   
 Greetings!  L I recently found an ancient DECserver 100 which appears to work fine, and myG mop trace shows it needs to download PS0801ENG.SYS. Given the fact thiswL thing is so old, could a kind soul please help me out with this file or tell me where to find it?   Thanks,s -Martin    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:48:08 -0400p; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>o" Subject: Re: DFWDAYS a Big Success$ Message-ID: <3aedc174$1@news.si.com>  = >Vacation time would have put your managment in it's place...e  K And so would my wife had I spent my vacation time and family budget dollarsM on a users group!i --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comcA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventl< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:45:08 -0500m- From: John Wisniewski <wisniewski@vmsone.com>'" Subject: Re: DFWDAYS a Big Success* Message-ID: <3AEE3144.F115EFE8@vmsone.com>   Brian Tillman wrote:  ? > >Vacation time would have put your managment in it's place...  > M > And so would my wife had I spent my vacation time and family budget dollarss > on a users group!n > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comnC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.como? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventt> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company  E Wives? Wives?  Humm.. I used to have one of those once until my alibi,I of being at a strip club throwing away our grocery money,  didn't hold upn becauseyF I was really at a computer symposia. It's ok..I was on vacation at the
 time...:-)  F "She! Who must be obeyed" can only frighten me now if she has CMKNL...   John Wisniewskib 44th level Adept of the DFWCUG wisniewski@vmsone.comg   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 03:03:49 GMTh$ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>& Subject: Easy Multinet ftp question...) Message-ID: <3AEE27F8.90B0F725@wi.rr.com>t   Hi:t  8 I want to do something like this in a command procedure:  0 $ MONTH = f$cvtime("TODAY","COMPARISON","MONTH"), $ DAY = f$cvtime("TODAY","COMPARISON","DAY")0 $ filename = "widget_charges.dat_" + month + day= $ ftp/noprompt/user='userid'/password='password' ftp.acme.come cd downloadD get y013.dat 'filename'o quit $ exit  A When I try to run this com, the Multinet ftp client chokes on thec4 single-ticks around the filename in the get command.  ; Is there an easy solution to this problem?  We can't renames= the file on the host system before downloading it.  I thoughtp> about renaming the file after we download it but it seems like3 I should be able to get the above code to work.....r  > [Is there an easy way to get Multinet to stop complaining when it sees the single-tick?]    Thanks much,   -Scott   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 03:20:27 GMTc2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: Easy Multinet ftp question...0 Message-ID: <%XpH6.376$5I.7271@news.cpqcorp.net>  P In article <3AEE27F8.90B0F725@wi.rr.com>, Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:  9 :I want to do something like this in a command procedure:s ..	 :$ ftp...t :cd download :get y013.dat 'filename' :quit  :$ exitw : B :When I try to run this com, the Multinet ftp client chokes on the5 :single-ticks around the filename in the get command.n  F   As it should.  DCL is the mechanism for symbol substitution, and DCLI   substitution is not expected in most other contexts.  Put another way, rH   if you want symbol substitution, then the command line must be read inH   by and processed by DCL itself, and not by some other utility or tool.  + :Is there an easy solution to this problem?i  E   I'd suggest using COPY/FTP.  (Since you don't mention your OpenVMS gD   version, I'll assume you have at least OpenVMS V6.2 and an OpenVMSF   V6.2 updated/compliant version of MultiNet -- both are required for D   COPY/FTP.)  Since you can perform the entire operation at the DCL H   dollar ($) prompt using COPY/FTP, you can use DCL symbol substitution.  C   This topic and various other DCL-isms are covered in the OpenVMS e%   User's Guide and in the DCL book...n  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:36:35 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Heroix eQ Management Suitet< Message-ID: <TgiH6.5742$e85.2442757@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  G > Heroix, launched a new management product which can manage W2K, Unix, 
 > OpenVMS :-)o >d. > http://www.heroix.com/products/detail_eQ.htm >   L If it's like most of their products, it should be pretty decent. And best of all, it's not from CA!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:58:33 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: How to change file timestamp-0 Message-ID: <tBiH6.352$5I.7199@news.cpqcorp.net>  Y In article <3aed9195.15849519@news.cstone.net>, rreffner@cstone.net (Rob Reffner) writes:-  = : Is it possible to change the date/time attribute of a file?-  A   DFU.  On the OpenVMS Freeware.  Else you get to learn about thed2   IO$_ACPCONTROL interface into the file system...  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:50:20 GMTh- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) ) Subject: Re: How to change file timestampb1 Message-ID: <3aedc1b7.326709463@swen.process.com>l  N On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:58:33 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:  Z >In article <3aed9195.15849519@news.cstone.net>, rreffner@cstone.net (Rob Reffner) writes: >e> >: Is it possible to change the date/time attribute of a file? >lB >  DFU.  On the OpenVMS Freeware.  Else you get to learn about the3 >  IO$_ACPCONTROL interface into the file system...a >lD Joe Meadows's FILE utility will also do the trick.  I wholeheartedlyC recommend DFU for everything else it does, but FILE is also useful:   4 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/file.zip   http://www.process.com/openvms/n   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/1   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:53:59 +0100R- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>v) Subject: Re: How to change file timestampt1 Message-ID: <3AED98A7.4FC2A502@BlueBubble.UK.Com>m   Rob Reffner wrote: >  > All- > G >  Is it possible to change the date/time attribute of a file? I have a F > situation where i have certain text files that I need to modify fromC > time to time but I would like to either change the newest version E > time/date to the original version or carry the date/time forward to ; > the newest version. Is this possible to do fairly easily?s  @ Yet another case for ... is it a bird ?  is it a plane ?  No ...  
 It's DFU !  H Get it from the Freeware CD (or Compaq's ftp access to the Freeware CD).  	 Roy Omondo Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:40:38 -0400a' From: Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org>d) Subject: Re: How to change file timestamp , Message-ID: <3AEE2226.93E8B4A1@ui.urban.org>  F Here's another approach (undocumented feature): the DATE section of anE FDL file. This is probably less useful than then the rest because yourC need to create a new version of your file, so I mention it just cuzC it's there.    Syntax as follows...   DATE     CREATION    1-JAN-2001     REVISION    2-FEB-2002     EXPIRATION  3-MAR-2003     BACKUP      4-APR-2004  " Then apply it in the usual manner:5 $ convert /fdl=mydates.fdl original.file redated.filei  ? The expiration date you set will be superseded according to thea@ volume's retention times. The above approach _does_ respect your revision date.  F I ran across this years ago simply by guessing that it might work, and dang, it worked.    
 Jim Becker   Rob Reffner wrote: >  > All- > G >  Is it possible to change the date/time attribute of a file? I have acF > situation where i have certain text files that I need to modify fromC > time to time but I would like to either change the newest versionwE > time/date to the original version or carry the date/time forward toa; > the newest version. Is this possible to do fairly easily?  >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Robu   --
 Jim Becker+ The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/)l' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)m. ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:07:12 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)c0 Subject: MIME Encoder on OpenVMS in C available?/ Message-ID: <terl00diokvm2c@news.supernews.com>e   Hi,m  L Does anyone know where I can get source code for a MIME encoder on OpenVMS?  C is the preferred language.     ws     -- o1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>o   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **v   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:26:04 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)4 Subject: Re: MIME Encoder on OpenVMS in C available?0 Message-ID: <MLkH6.368$5I.7399@news.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <terl00diokvm2c@news.supernews.com>, wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes:rM :Does anyone know where I can get source code for a MIME encoder on OpenVMS? a :C is the preferred language.     B   Some related stuff: MPACK on the Freeware, Netscape Navigator...B   Ports of the metamail and exmh are likely around somewhere, too.C   Process Software's PMDF.  OpenVMS V7.2 and later contains a MIME iD   tool, as well -- if you choose to use this tool, get the MIME ECO C   kit and make sure you use TCP/IP Services V5.1.  The OpenVMS FAQ )C   section "MAIL9.  How do I send or read attachments in VMS MAIL?" i0   has some other related information, as well...    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:39:27 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)s4 Subject: Re: MIME Encoder on OpenVMS in C available?/ Message-ID: <termsf28745q0b@news.supernews.com>e  H hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in <MLkH6.368$5I.7399 @news.cpqcorp.net>:h   >www.openvms.compaq.como   Thanks Hoff - very helpful.    ws   -- t1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>s   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 17:27:32 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)u@ Subject: RE: Mounting and Management station: comments please...3 Message-ID: <Q29mRHn+xnXy@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  < I used to support the X series of products that HIS-SoftwareA developed for one of their US distributors.  About as bulletprooff? of a product as they come.  90% of the support calls I had were > RTFM calls.  About one in one hundred calls was a bug that the@ developer would fix in a couple of days.  A majority of the rest, of the calls were for network config issues.   In article <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D958E@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:% > re: Gui's for OpenVMS management ..i > J > Actually, I have not had a chance to take a look at this product, but it > looks interesting: > http://www.geneous.com1 > http://www.geneous.com/all_products.htm#OpenVMS-> > http://www.geneous.com/handouts/uafmaest/ (Motif based tool) > / > Any feedback from anyone who has used these ?a > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantu > Compaq Canada Inc. > Professional ServicesN > Voice: 613-592-4660u > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----D > From: rdeininger@mindspring.com [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com] > Sent: April 28, 2001 1:07 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComCB > Subject: Re: Mounting and Management station: comments please... >  >  > In articleI > <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D9589@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>,C. > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote: > 5 >> re: gui management (NT/Motif/whatever ..) stuff ..n >> iI >> These are usually (not always) targetted at the Help Desk and/or firstn > level L >> Operations folks who often have to deal with multiple platform issues and > doM >> not have the OS specific skills required (read - they are paid quite a bit & >> less than a systems manager/admin). > A > Ok. I can see that that might be useful for things like account"I > maintenance, etc.  If it's appropriately restricted.  (Has the industry H > really given up on training folks beyond the skill required to click a3 > mouse?  Have we given up on thinking altogether?)c > L > But letting these low-skill folks modify, via mickey-click on a billy-box,L > details of disk mounting?  In such a way that a booting VMS system dependsH > on their actions?  Yikes!  That would scare me to death if I had to be
 > around it. o > L > Even with a read-only management tool, what would these help desk folks doL > with disk mounting information?  Escalate to a VMS person, with some vague- > report about the F: drive having a problem?  > E >> Imho, there is a place for both ie. command line and GUI's in most  >> Operations shops these days.l > K > True.  Which is why it is sad to see Compaq's effort going into billy-box ? > GUI development, instead of VMS-based (x-windows or html) GUIAG > development.  An x-windows GUI could be used on billy-boxes if a site H > needed to do so.  And I don't believe that ANYONE wants to employ helpL > desk folks who can mickey-click in Windoze, but can't cope with Motif.  IfJ > your business is that unimportant, you might as well give up and go pick > daisies or something.  >  > -- 0 > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com9   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:16:56 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> 8 Subject: RE: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D959B@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,r  K The point I made was valid ie. the raw numbers of the systems posted on therI external web site are newer versions of HW (EV68 833Mhz) than the systemstH that were used (EV67 677Mhz) in the posted streams results at that time.  J Now, I was going to state that only when the new numbers are posted, wouldL you have a valid point, but I just checked and the new ES40 EV68 numbers are, now posted and do not show much improvement.  E So, I agree with you. I will raise this as something that needs to besL revisited. However, all I can do is point this out to the appropriate CompaqG folks and the decision will be up to them as to what action they take. l  G >>> And you are entitled to call Sun on that and raise doubts about thed- number, until we publish a STREAMS result.<<<-  L In the meantime, to make sure we both play by the same rules... While I haveE no doubt they are coming soon, can you give us an idea as to when the L advertised 9.2Gb streams numbers will be available for the new Sun 3800/4800 servers?   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesd Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]n Sent: April 30, 2001 8:05 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!     "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Andrew ..0 >  > Sensitive these days eh ?t >  > :-)n >  > Hey, I agreed with you ! >  > Heres my statement:sE > "Anyway, I do agree with you that the we should have a more current  streamsgL > number available that correlates closer to currently available systems and > will see what I can find out.e > * > Thank you for kindly pointing this out." >   . Come on Kerry you knew it was there, you could- not have been stupid enough to only read the  * first 3 paragraphs of the white paper you  used as reference.  ( And as you can see from the white paper % your own technical peoples advice is  % to ignore RAW numbers and instead to    go for STREAMS numbers instead.   # On that basis your own white paper  " says that your claim of 5.2 GB is $ BS, get used to it or get the white ' papers authors to withdraw the article.v   v.L > Again, even if a new EV68 number does not reflect the raw bandwidth numberK > that is on the web site (and yes I agree with you that is not necessarilyn aa( > good thing), what about the Sun site ? >   ; What about Sun's site. We are discussing your BS not Sun's t- so why are you trying to change the subject.    : What is at issue is your claims of falsehood and wrongness" not anything that Sun has claimed.    G > Can you let us know where the 9.6Gb streams numbers are for these new + > servers that are posted on the Sun site ? K > http://www.sun.com/servers/midrange/comparison.html (System bus bandwidthb > 9.6Gb sustained) >   9 And you are entitled to call Sun on that and raise doubtsa5 about the number, until we publish a STREAMS result. t  7 The problem is you have published a STREAMS result for y3 the ES40 and on that basis there is no support for k1 you claim of 5.2 GB/s since the STREAMS number isn. almost exactly 50% of your claimed RAW number.      @ > As far as I could see, the only ones posted are older servers:J > Machine ID                      ncpus    COPY    SCALE      ADD    TRIADJ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------J > Sun_UE_6000_assembly              16   2551.0   2449.9   2434.6   2434.9 >     2 Great example because it only serves to illustrate4 the difference between Compaq marketing BS and what - Sun says about the capability of our systems.t  1 http://www.sun.com/960416/wp/wp.ultra.server.htmlc  4 Details the performance of the E6000 backplane, read4 the claimed performance of the backplane. We claimed2 2.5 GB/s and thats almost exactly what the STREAMS
 result is.  3 You are claiming 5.2 GB/s despite a STREAMS result u- of half this and a white paper from your own  2 techical people arguing that RAW bandwidth numbers are BS..  / How much longer are you going to go on digging   for ????     regardse Andrew Harrison? Enterprise IT Architecto   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:22:09 GMTM2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: OpenVMS Freeware V5.0 On-line0 Message-ID: <BsmH6.373$5I.7417@news.cpqcorp.net>  F   Both OpenVMS Freeware V5.0 -- the version of Freeware shipping with H   OpenVMS V7.3 -- and the older Freeware V4.0 are now available on-line:  +     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/a  G   Please keep your Freeware V4.0 disks, V5.0 is very different -- with eH   the volume of new and of updated submissions, there was rather little D   room for carrying forward most (unmodified) submissions from V4.0.  E   And yes, OpenVMS.Freeware@Compaq.Com is still the email address to  G   send any Freeware submissions for the next release.  As for schedule,mJ   the next release of the Freeware will probably be shipping out a couple @   of months after the OpenVMS DII COE release (V7.2-6C1?) ships.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 15:56:32 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) G Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98-3 Message-ID: <Gy3pLN$YpUVK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H In article <3AEDA347.784F7159@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:  > > You can not use Easy CD anymore, there was a time you could.   How could that be ?d  7 Are you sure you did not change versions of something ?g    N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 16:00:01 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)3G Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98H3 Message-ID: <FI0PSOe2SRKn@eisner.encompasserve.org>5  e In article <tOnG6.326$5I.6024@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:nJ > In article <3AE9F4CA.7B343F7A@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: > L > :The real question is why we have to rely on freeware tools etc., and why 8 > :write CD-R's and CD-RW's isn't a part of VMS itself.  > F >   Would you be willing to pay for a Compaq CD-R or Compaq-specified H >   CD-R drive (including a CD-R media kit the application software and E >   tools for OpenVMS CD-R) and the associated software and hardware -! >   support contracts?  How much?p  J I did.  The drive was $7000, the year that InfoServer CD-R first came out.D It still works fine.  It is not "fast", but neither is my ability to create data.  N ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:20:51 GMTa- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)DG Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98P1 Message-ID: <3aedc8c8.328517863@swen.process.com>   G On 30 Apr 2001 15:56:32 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry  Kilgallen) wrote:e  I >In article <3AEDA347.784F7159@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:f >s? >> You can not use Easy CD anymore, there was a time you could.- >u >How could that be ? >t8 >Are you sure you did not change versions of something ? >t@ There was an old version of EasyCD Creator that would handle VMSD discs just fine.  Then there was V3.something, in which they startedD checking to be sure EasyCD knew what kind of disc it was.  NaturallyE VMS discs were not recognized, so EasyCD would refuse to make or copy F a VMS disc.  Apparently somebody griped, because the functionality was back in EasyCD V4.0.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/b9 goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:11:18 -0700e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comfG Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98?D Message-ID: <OFCF6A057B.F7E7416D-ON88256A3E.00743AF5@foundation.com>  E Easy CD Creator is no longer owned by Adaptec. The level of technical-K knowledge seems to have gone down, and the marketing bs has got stronger. Ik7 don't know if this has reached the software yet though.l   Shanem          J Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) on 04/30/2001 01:56:32 PM  E Please respond to Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)t   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:t  H Subject:  Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98    H In article <3AEDA347.784F7159@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:  > > You can not use Easy CD anymore, there was a time you could.   How could that be ?e  7 Are you sure you did not change versions of something ?d    N ==============================================================================  E Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems ->t ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:33:12 GMTi/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>IG Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98f) Message-ID: <3AED93C8.7C38233D@uiowa.edu>e  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > G > Easy CD Creator is no longer owned by Adaptec. The level of technicaleA > knowledge seems to have gone down, and the marketing bs has got F > stronger.  I don't know if this has reached the software yet though.  = 	Roxio is a spin-off of Adaptec.  I believe it is still ownedtE by Adaptec, they just wanted a partitioning for business reasons.  It G may be true they are independent, but it is still the same group.  Manya< of them original Italian crew that started it back at Incat.  B 	When it was EasyCDPro by Incat (up through about v2.x) it worked.G Then it was purchased by Adaptec, they merged CDCreator and EasyCD into G EasyCD Creator v3.x which is where the ability to burn an OpenVMS ODS-2r "ISO" image file "broke".a  ; 	From another followup on this thread from Hunter Goatley,  ? apparently with the update of EasyCD Creator to v4.x they fixed D it so one could burn a foreign image file again.  I have v1.x, v2.x,C v3.x, v4.x and v5.x.  But since it broke with v3.x, I had not triedMA again so I will have to test it out!  Thanks for the info Hunter!3   Rick -- 	H Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-14792   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:28:24 GMTs From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>G Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98 ' Message-ID: <3AEDE703.327D4E79@home.nl>s   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  J > In article <3AEDA347.784F7159@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: >u@ > > You can not use Easy CD anymore, there was a time you could. >a > How could that be ?- >w9 > Are you sure you did not change versions of something ?   M That is what I mean. With (very) old versions it was possible. Later versions O were  "improved", and check if a ISO image file is ISO according to Adaptec. Ife> not (like with a VMS disk image) it wil refuse to burn the CD.       >S >cP > ==============================================================================P > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersP > ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:00:45 GMTt2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>G Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98i3 Message-ID: <x8mH6.159$o7.6695@typhoon.aracnet.com>-  . Richard L. Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote:? > 	Roxio is a spin-off of Adaptec.  I believe it is still ownedeG > by Adaptec, they just wanted a partitioning for business reasons.  ItaI > may be true they are independent, but it is still the same group.  Manye> > of them original Italian crew that started it back at Incat.  J Since Toast is now listed as a Roxio Product as of Version 5 I asked aboutD this on one of the Mac lists.  Apparently Roxio is owned by Adaptec.  I I picked up Toast 5 the weekend before last, now I just need to get a newe& CD-R drive or fix the old one (again).   			Zane1   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 19:57:32 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)aG Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98s3 Message-ID: <T6w4SnZHfqXP@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  a In article <3aedc8c8.328517863@swen.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:mI > On 30 Apr 2001 15:56:32 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry  > Kilgallen) wrote:  > J >>In article <3AEDA347.784F7159@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: >>@ >>> You can not use Easy CD anymore, there was a time you could. >> >>How could that be ?- >>9 >>Are you sure you did not change versions of something ?i >>B > There was an old version of EasyCD Creator that would handle VMSF > discs just fine.  Then there was V3.something, in which they startedF > checking to be sure EasyCD knew what kind of disc it was.  NaturallyG > VMS discs were not recognized, so EasyCD would refuse to make or copyoH > a VMS disc.  Apparently somebody griped, because the functionality was > back in EasyCD V4.0.  & As I said, somebody changeed versions.? Existing software did not suddenly develop new characteristics.t   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 19:58:18 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)>G Subject: Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98 3 Message-ID: <FaDDwf$eR9DM@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  h In article <OFCF6A057B.F7E7416D-ON88256A3E.00743AF5@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: > G > Easy CD Creator is no longer owned by Adaptec. The level of technical M > knowledge seems to have gone down, and the marketing bs has got stronger. I,9 > don't know if this has reached the software yet though.   B It cannot have reached software you already have, unless you allow them access to your machine.   Larry Kilgallenn  L > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) on 04/30/2001 01:56:32 > PM > G > Please respond to Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)t >  > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > cc:h > J > Subject:  Re: Ripping ods-2 cd on AlphaOpenVMS burning ods-2 cd in Win98 >  > J > In article <3AEDA347.784F7159@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: > ? >> You can not use Easy CD anymore, there was a time you could.o >  > How could that be ?. > 9 > Are you sure you did not change versions of something ?e >  > P > ============================================================================== > G > Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems ->t
 > ClustersP > ============================================================================== >  >  >  >  >  >  >  -- mN ==============================================================================N Great Inventors of our time: Al Gore -> Internet; Sun Microsystems -> ClustersN ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 01 May 2001 03:53:19 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>W Subject: Re: seeking performance numbers for distributed lock manager traffic via  FDDIt- Message-ID: <87d79ucggg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  4 Andreas Stiller <Andreas.Stiller@netsurf.de> writes:   > 5) network  D > One hint was that a switch degrades in performance if packets sizeA > has to be changed inside (from FDDI to Ethernet and back). So imC > asked the computing centre for a network layout. This topic is myiB > last hope (beside upgrade to FiberChannel + HSG + MemoryChannel)  E FDDI-Ethernet-FDDI is a well known problem; it is called a 'dumbbell' F configuration. IMO, the entire FDDI/cluster stuff should be under your direct control.d  G Your are not running the primary CPUs into interupt saturation are you?m     -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov 7   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:09:45 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)m* Subject: Re: source code tracking software/ Message-ID: <teraj9bar4rj53@news.supernews.com>p  A p14175@email.sps.mot.com (Linda Luik) wrote in <3AEDA0C9.74CD9499  @email.sps.mot.com>:  E >I have a VAX (5.5-4) running CMS. Can I transfer the libraries to anaH >Alpha running the CMS? What is the best recourse if the CMS software is >dropped? Any ideas? >r >Thanks, >Linda >l  J The library directories/files should move to Alpha ok, provided you stick L with the same version of CMS on Alpha.  If you're going to upgrade CMS to a K newer version as well, certain file conversions may be required, depending i on from/to version.h  J Unfortunately your question does not contain sufficient detail to address  the "CMS is dropped" scenario.   ws   --  1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>A   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:18:41 -07006. From: Hank Vander Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com>* Subject: RE: source code tracking software; Message-ID: <000301c0d1bb$21c67e40$9c96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>   D OK I found CVS on my sharewhare CD it has the file cvs-960925.TAR-GZL on it.   So I unzipped then UN-tarred it and I find that there is NO .obj or	 exe filesoL on it does anyone have cvs compiled for Alpha VMS ???   If not anyone with a
 C compilerA care to compile it for me??   I dont have access to a C compiler.v   Hank Vander Waal Mansco   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:57:15 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: source code tracking software0 Message-ID: <fAiH6.351$5I.7199@news.cpqcorp.net>  i In article <3AED7E85.EAA7863F@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:o" :steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:N :> There's one (whose name escapes me at the moment but it's three letters andI :> it's used in VMS Engineering apparently - is it VDE?) either on the V4a" :> Freeware or on the upcoming V5. :C* :I think VDE is the one that requires RDB.  A   VDE requires CMS and some other tools in addition to requiring _
   Oracle Rdb.y  7   VDE is on Freeware V4.0, but is NOT on Freeware V5.0.   B   An update to VDE may well be included on the next Freeware, but <   other work conflicted with a VDE update for Freeware V5.0.   	--f  B   If you are developing a product for OpenVMS, please take a look C   at the CSA program, as this program provides you with commercial e0   access to a suite of OpenVMS layered products.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:24:48 -040002 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: source code tracking softwareL Message-ID: <rdeininger-3004012124480001@user-2ive6ih.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <3AEDA0C9.74CD9499@email.sps.mot.com>, Linda Luik! <p14175@email.sps.mot.com> wrote:e  F > I have a VAX (5.5-4) running CMS. Can I transfer the libraries to anI > Alpha running the CMS? What is the best recourse if the CMS software is  > dropped? Any ideas?   C CMS libraries are portable between VAX and alpha.  If you move to arG different version of CMS, the library format might have to change.  CMSVH will convert the libraries for you if necessary, unless perhaps you skipG too many versions of CMS.  This conversion is generally NOT reversible.e  H I don't expect CMS to be dropped; the VMS community is very dependent onG it.  (This includes VMS engineering, I believe.)  Your recourse in this-G (unlikely) situation would be to extract all your source files from CMSn) before you turn it off for the last time.m   -- q Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 01:52:57 GMTp2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: source code tracking software0 Message-ID: <ZFoH6.375$5I.7538@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <rdeininger-3004012124480001@user-2ive6ih.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:i  L :...I don't expect CMS to be dropped; the VMS community is very dependent on4 :it.  (This includes VMS engineering, I believe.)...  H   OpenVMS Engineering is centrally dependent on CMS, the source code to G   the OpenVMS operating system is stored across over 600 CMS libraries.=I   (VDE is used to manage these CMS libraries as larger "units", with the tF   two OpenVMS VDE libraries comprised of over 300 CMS libraries each.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 01:35:03 GMTp& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>! Subject: Re: Sync Comm - PCI Cards> Message-ID: <bpoH6.150323$o9.20382852@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in messaget! news:3AEBCCA2.D3F7942F@home.nl...7 >o >n > E > And if you can't get them from Compaq, you can always get them fromv Emulex.  >f# > http://www.emulex.com/dcp/xp.htmle >-	 > SuccessR >  > Dirk >t > E Here is the answer I got from emulex about the synchronous PCI cards:C  L ****************************************************************************
 ************* J John, unfortunately Emulex's WAN adapters were end-of-lifed last year.  WeG never offered drivers, either. There is no replacement product offered.IJ Emulex is strictly manufacturing fibre channel PCI host adapters and hubs. Sorry.   Rose Mesnard Emulex Sales Support   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:44:38 -0500 ' From: Thomas G Wirt <twirt@kittles.com>n6 Subject: Test!  Please post a response if you see this+ Message-ID: <3AEDB295.1761608E@kittles.com>=  H I have had recent trouble getting my postings from my server to the restH of the net.  Someone please let me know if they can see this.  Sorry for the inconvenience.   Thomas Wirtu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:03:11 -0500 ' From: Thomas G Wirt <twirt@kittles.com>l: Subject: Re: Test!  Please post a response if you see this+ Message-ID: <3AEDD30F.A85D2268@kittles.com>u   Got it.  Thanks.   Thomas G Wirt wrote: > J > I have had recent trouble getting my postings from my server to the restJ > of the net.  Someone please let me know if they can see this.  Sorry for > the inconvenience. > 
 > Thomas Wirtl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:24:54 +0000s2 From: Chris Doran <donotreply@interbulletin.bogus>: Subject: Re: Test!  Please post a response if you see this0 Message-ID: <3AEDCA16.1CD5C04@interbulletin.com>  3 Thomas G Wirt <twirt@kittles.com> wrote in article w" <3AEDB295.1761608E@kittles.com> : I >I have had recent trouble getting my postings from my server to the resttI >of the net.  Someone please let me know if they can see this.  Sorry for- >the inconvenience., >  >Thomas Wirt  @ %POST-F-WRONGNG, wrong newsgroup, should have used alt.test etc.  / (unless you have a problem with a specific NG).?  + Chris (chris_doran.n.o.s.p.a.m@my-deja.com)0/ _______________________________________________o; Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.comm   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:20:07 GMTw4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: Warning: EV68/833 and Oracle Rdb incompatible< Message-ID: <HViH6.5941$e85.2455006@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  E "Frederick Hoenisch" <Fred.hoenisch@gems9.gov.bc.ca> wrote in messageo% news:3aed872b$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca... I > Rdb 7.0.6.1 is the latest.  Oracle Rdb engineering staff have confirmed7 thatI > EV68 is not yet certified.  In fact, they went on to say (last Tuesday)r thatE > they still didn't have EV68 technology in their Rdb lab (but it wasd > ordered).e  H I'm surprised that Oracle doesn't have ES40 6/833s in-house... there areK plenty of 'em right across the road at ZK03. It may well be that they don'teD have the 1GHz GS-Series systems yet (those are also right across theH street), and I suspect the certification issues have more to do with the1 nuances of the GS-Series than with the ES-Series.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:03:04 GMTc0 From: sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com (Warren Sander); Subject: Re: www.compaq.com/openvms news from Sue Skonetskih0 Message-ID: <sNhH6.348$5I.7143@news.cpqcorp.net>  9 Off hand I'd say the problem is with the 'post arguments'   ? I'm using purveyor and with dcl purveyor will put the argumentsn/ into P1 ie counter.com/foo will have p1 = "foo"g  > You need to do whatever you need to do to get the argument (or1 change the dcl code to use a hardcoded file name.   D Also you need to be able to display x-bitmaps. Opera can't do it but netscape and ie can.   -warren  -- nB ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingD Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@compaq.comE 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@ma.ultranet.com 3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875o6    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself -          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  B ------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:13:01 -0700i! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comh> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%D Message-ID: <OFC2E3EAA9.9D4B98D7-ON88256A3E.0063F3F9@foundation.com>  H So is religion. Or are you going to argue that every catholic interpretsJ the catholic teachings in exactly the same way? It's /all/ personal choice at some level.   Shane           F Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu> on 04/30/2001 07:20:27 AM  > Please respond to Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:0  ? Subject:  Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%i      " On 30 Apr 2001, Bob Koehler wrote:  I > Bertrand Russell was wrong.  The issue of a diety is entirley separabletG > from the issue of the absolute of good and evil.  Secular humanism isw  > not a requirement for atheism.  I Secular humanism cannot be an *absolute* arbitrator of moral values since  it is by definition relative.      - Mihali  @ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+@ | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |@ | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |@ | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |@ | Box 208109                          |                        |@ | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:15:45 -0700e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comr> Subject: RE: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%D Message-ID: <OF271726EF.56B9DD62-ON88256A3E.00642E2D@foundation.com>  K Each individual does, by resolving each fresh situation's conflicts as theya arise.   ShaneR          F Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu> on 04/30/2001 07:58:19 AM  > Please respond to Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi cc:l  ? Subject:  RE: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%t      & On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Tom Linden wrote: > @ > An Arbiter arbitrates.  A philosophy can't arbitrate anything.    Good point. Who arbitrates then?       - Mihali  @ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+@ | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |@ | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |@ | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |@ | Box 208109                          |                        |@ | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:38:25 -0700e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coml> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%D Message-ID: <OFCC815833.399D3DFC-ON88256A3E.006635A8@foundation.com>  E I am not insulted by others having different approaches to life. I amuI insulted by you effectively claiming that mine are worthless because theyi don't originate with a god.l   ShaneV          F Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu> on 04/30/2001 10:32:19 AM  > Please respond to Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, cc:a  ? Subject:  Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%o      6 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:   > E > Oh, so the morals I've always lived with are some kind of illusion,n becausepH > an atheist can't have any? Get /over/ yourself, and stop insulting me.  H Your morals and another person's is necessarily different, i.e. they areI relative. Whether you are insulted by that fact or not is not something I E can do anything about. There can be no meaningful talk about absoluteF morality without God.5     - Mihali  @ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+@ | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |@ | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |@ | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |@ | Box 208109                          |                        |@ | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Apr 2001 18:58:59 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edun> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <9ckclj$ijk$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>   E Science is the enterprise and result of aquisition of knowledge about>A the physical world through the observation of the physical world.y  B There is a lot of philosophizing done about science, and differentC scientists have different philosophical views of science (and a few= don't have any).  C But that is the philosophy about science, it is not science itself.A  H There are various philosophical approaches to the evidence that suggestsH that our universe is rather bizaare, that for carbon based life to existF there are several parameters that had to have been set very precisely.  B Some say it points to a creator, some say if it hadn't happened weC wouldn't be here to talk about it, some say we should probably wait=G before making rash comments about just how unlikely the "settings" are.-  E I would like to beleive the first, but suggest the last as the wiseste course..   Various comments:e  H Dark matter was hypothesized because the observed behaviour of galaxies J could not be explained given the amount of visible mass in those galaxies.  D AFAIK nothing did not explode.  There was a singularity.   We do notA know what went on before and it is possible we can not know what e went on before.h   Before the Big Bang God is.   ( (No, I did not mess up my verb tenses.  # Yes, that is a statement of faith.)   E Science tells us that miracles have not been reliably observed under  E controlled conditions and that there are no known mechanism for them  G to occur.  Science can often offer alternative explanations for reportsaF of miracles.  None of which states that miracles don't occur.  Ocham's' razor is a useful tool but not a proof.   G My understanding is that there are variations on the parallel universe m- theory that allow for negative infinite time.   D You want offensive sigs?  Go read Matt Giwer's.  If it is five linesG or less I vote for ignoring it unless it is relevant to the discussion.,   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Apr 2001 19:40:41 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edus> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <9ckf3p$ijk$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>5  # Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:s- >Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>9  J >>Your morals and another person's is necessarily different, i.e. they areK >>relative. Whether you are insulted by that fact or not is not something ItG >>can do anything about. There can be no meaningful talk about absolute  >>morality without God.   F >I am not insulted by others having different approaches to life. I amJ >insulted by you effectively claiming that mine are worthless because they >don't originate with a god.  F In the above excerpt Mihali does not claim your approach is worthless.  8 Any a-theistic morality is based on a set of premises.    3 My favorite scenario for working out those premises 6 is to start with the assumption that the moralist will? be living in the society sie is setting up a moral system for,  @ and that the moralist has no choice with respect to hir physical? or mental abilities and will have no choice with respect to hirn starting social standing..  8 But in the end, from an a-theistic worldview there is no@ absolute method for determining what set of premises is correct.  5 If you have a source of absolute knowledge of what is 7 right and wrong then you can have an absolute morality.t  > That doesn't mean that your approach is worthless, simply that3 your approach doesn't produce an absolute morality.r  A Of course some fundimentalists feel the same way about me because @ I don't view the Bible as a word-for-word dictated communicationD from YHWH.  Some of them feel that anything less than that (or less < than something very close to that description) brings in an   intolerable amount of ambiguity.  
 Such is life.    Robert Morphis   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 16:07:16 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%3 Message-ID: <HqpOnUZp1kuy@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  Q In article <9ckf3p$ijk$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu writes:C   > C > Of course some fundimentalists feel the same way about me because B > I don't view the Bible as a word-for-word dictated communicationF > from YHWH.  Some of them feel that anything less than that (or less > > than something very close to that description) brings in an " > intolerable amount of ambiguity. >   = 	The term "fundamentalist" has its own history...  let's skips> 	that... but regarding the view of Scriptural inerrancy, which< 	part of the Bible do you disagree with?  Are you kinda like8 	Thomas Jefferson in that you have *issues* with certain? 	parts so , let's ditch that part?  (Jefferson whacked miraclese2 	from his version or interpretation of the Bible).  < 	The reason I ask, for instance is there are good supporting@ 	texts to argue for inerrancy.  As a quick Google search reveals 	a worthy example of just that:-  < http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qscriptureinspired.html  M The word inspiration literally means "God-breathed" in the Greek. And becauseaG Scripture is breathed out by God, it is true and inerrant. Consider thel following syllogism:  .      Major Premise: God is true (Romans 3:4).   E      Minor Premise: God breathed out the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16).r  A      Conclusion: Therefore, the Scriptures are true (John 17:17).M  L As illustrated above, the inerrancy of Scripture can be inferred by premisesN that are themselves taught by Scripture. We read in Scripture that truth is anM attribute of God (Jeremiah 10:10; John 1:14; 14:6; 17:3), and that God speakseO truthfully--that is, He does not lie (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Titus 1:2;SJ Romans 3:3-4). We also are told that Scripture is "breathed out" by God (2G Timothy 3:16). The Word of God, then, is true (John 17:14,17; cf. Psalm + 119:142; 151; 160; Revelation 21:5; 22:6). i     				Rob)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:59:15 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>D> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%, Message-ID: <3AEDD220.9568D900@videotron.ca>  ! Did Al Gore invent the universe ?    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Apr 2001 21:49:01 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edue> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <9ckmkd$lnj$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>(  - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:C& >system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu writes:  D >> Of course some fundimentalists feel the same way about me becauseC >> I don't view the Bible as a word-for-word dictated communicationeG >> from YHWH.  Some of them feel that anything less than that (or less i? >> than something very close to that description) brings in an t# >> intolerable amount of ambiguity.r  6 >	[] regarding the view of Scriptural inerrancy, which+ >	part of the Bible do you disagree with?  -  A I take Genesis chapters 1 through 11 to be God's truth translatede5 by the cultural milieu of the priests who wrote them.-  ? There are stories, such as the mauling of the youths who calledi> the prophet "baldhead" that make no sense to me.  Perhaps they@ were inspired and made sense for that place and time, or perhapsD they were inserted by a priest who felt the prophets weren't getting enough respect.   @ When Jesus sends the Apostles out into the countryside the three@ synoptics give different instructions.  It is a trivial example, but argues against dictation.e  < Actually while Genesis makes a strong case against a literal> reading the differences in Jesus' instructions is actually the better case against dictation.   >       Are you kinda like9 >	Thomas Jefferson in that you have *issues* with certainf$ >	parts so , let's ditch that part?   F When I find specific issues that appear to conflict with more general ? principles derived from the Bible I am inclined to go with the s@ general principles, esp. when experience shows that violating a ( specific set of verses bears good fruit.  F I'm not always 100% happy about it but that is where my trust in God's forgiveness comes in..  C There are also other issues involved, e.g. just because it is truth C does not mean we understand it (even if we do correctly understand f4 the individual words, which is not always the case).  D (I don't have access to alt.religion, but if anyone wants to do this via email...).   Peace be with you, Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 00:56:24 +0200D) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>t> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%, Message-ID: <3AEDED98.421AEA1C@infopuls.com>   Mihali Felipe wrote: > 8 > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: >  > >nO > > Oh, so the morals I've always lived with are some kind of illusion, because J > > an atheist can't have any? Get /over/ yourself, and stop insulting me. > J > Your morals and another person's is necessarily different, i.e. they areK > relative. Whether you are insulted by that fact or not is not something IcG > can do anything about. There can be no meaningful talk about absolutei > morality without God.r > 
 > - Mihali > B > +-------------------------------------+------------------------+B > | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |B > | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |B > | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |B > | Box 208109                          |                        |B > | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |B > +-------------------------------------+------------------------+  > Incredible! Please be so kind and firstly define the notion of> "God" - I don't understand the word because it is used in that> many ways that we need a precise definition to understand what you are talking about.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:44:24 GMT.+ From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>a> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <3AEDF283.3FA4F5F6@ins-msi.com>   $ system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > % > Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: / > >Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>3 > L > >>Your morals and another person's is necessarily different, i.e. they areM > >>relative. Whether you are insulted by that fact or not is not something I I > >>can do anything about. There can be no meaningful talk about absolute  > >>morality without God.- > H > >I am not insulted by others having different approaches to life. I amL > >insulted by you effectively claiming that mine are worthless because they > >don't originate with a god. > H > In the above excerpt Mihali does not claim your approach is worthless. > 8 > Any a-theistic morality is based on a set of premises.  H All moral systems are based on premises. The argument is which ones. 8-)   > 5 > My favorite scenario for working out those premiseso8 > is to start with the assumption that the moralist will@ > be living in the society sie is setting up a moral system for,B > and that the moralist has no choice with respect to hir physicalA > or mental abilities and will have no choice with respect to hir- > starting social standing.S > : > But in the end, from an a-theistic worldview there is noB > absolute method for determining what set of premises is correct.  D Oh yes there is. Objectivist morality is based on a provably correctE set of premises. By correct I mean one cannot disprove their validity # without using at least one of them.   C Notions of good and evil only apply to living beings. Rocks have no- need for a morality.   > 7 > If you have a source of absolute knowledge of what is09 > right and wrong then you can have an absolute morality.j > @ > That doesn't mean that your approach is worthless, simply that5 > your approach doesn't produce an absolute morality.o > C > Of course some fundimentalists feel the same way about me becausepB > I don't view the Bible as a word-for-word dictated communicationE > from YHWH.  Some of them feel that anything less than that (or less@= > than something very close to that description) brings in ano" > intolerable amount of ambiguity. >  > Such is life.  >  > Robert Morphis  
 Jeff Campbellc n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 19:40:10 -05007 From: hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)e> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%3 Message-ID: <I58ykqLLnVDn@eisner.encompasserve.org>    <plonk!>Z >In article <3AEDF283.3FA4F5F6@ins-msi.com>, Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> writes:& > system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: >>  & >> Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:0 >> >Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu> >>  M >> >>Your morals and another person's is necessarily different, i.e. they areFN >> >>relative. Whether you are insulted by that fact or not is not something IJ >> >>can do anything about. There can be no meaningful talk about absolute >> >>morality without God. >>  I >> >I am not insulted by others having different approaches to life. I am-M >> >insulted by you effectively claiming that mine are worthless because they1 >> >don't originate with a god.m >> eI >> In the above excerpt Mihali does not claim your approach is worthless.% >> s9 >> Any a-theistic morality is based on a set of premises.. > J > All moral systems are based on premises. The argument is which ones. 8-) >  >> s6 >> My favorite scenario for working out those premises9 >> is to start with the assumption that the moralist will A >> be living in the society sie is setting up a moral system for,SC >> and that the moralist has no choice with respect to hir physicaloB >> or mental abilities and will have no choice with respect to hir >> starting social standing. >> c; >> But in the end, from an a-theistic worldview there is no C >> absolute method for determining what set of premises is correct.- > F > Oh yes there is. Objectivist morality is based on a provably correctG > set of premises. By correct I mean one cannot disprove their validitye% > without using at least one of them.  > E > Notions of good and evil only apply to living beings. Rocks have no  > need for a morality. >  >> 08 >> If you have a source of absolute knowledge of what is: >> right and wrong then you can have an absolute morality. >> -A >> That doesn't mean that your approach is worthless, simply that 6 >> your approach doesn't produce an absolute morality. >> oD >> Of course some fundimentalists feel the same way about me becauseC >> I don't view the Bible as a word-for-word dictated communicationdF >> from YHWH.  Some of them feel that anything less than that (or less> >> than something very close to that description) brings in an# >> intolerable amount of ambiguity.p >> h >> Such is life. >> d >> Robert Morphis: >  > Jeff Campbells > n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------   Date: 1 May 2001 02:30:36 GMT # From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu > Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <9cl74c$s22$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>   - Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> writes:d% >system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:c  9 >> Any a-theistic morality is based on a set of premises.   I >All moral systems are based on premises. The argument is which ones. 8-)a  G From a human perspective, unless we can prove the existance of a source I of absolute knowledge of what is right and wrong (e.g. the Christian God)y you are right.  ; >> But in the end, from an a-theistic worldview there is no-C >> absolute method for determining what set of premises is correct.p  E >Oh yes there is. Objectivist morality is based on a provably correct F >set of premises. By correct I mean one cannot disprove their validity$ >without using at least one of them.  J The two serious philosophers I have discussed it with consider ObjectivismC (i.e. Randite "philosophy", there is something else in the world of-H philosophy with a similar name) to be a second rate rehash of old ideas.G Not quite a quote but pretty close.  They also indicated that it wasn'tGA held in very high esteem in the philosophical community at large.o  9 In short if your sentence makes sense I doubt it is true.i  D >Notions of good and evil only apply to living beings. Rocks have no >need for a morality.h   And the relevance of this is?n   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 1 May 2001 00:11:14 -0500e+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%3 Message-ID: <vm3WEAVQ$wS$@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  Q In article <9ckmkd$lnj$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu writes:i/ > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: ' >>system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu writes:o > E >>> Of course some fundimentalists feel the same way about me becauseaD >>> I don't view the Bible as a word-for-word dictated communicationH >>> from YHWH.  Some of them feel that anything less than that (or less @ >>> than something very close to that description) brings in an $ >>> intolerable amount of ambiguity. > 7 >>	[] regarding the view of Scriptural inerrancy, which , >>	part of the Bible do you disagree with?   > C > I take Genesis chapters 1 through 11 to be God's truth translatedg7 > by the cultural milieu of the priests who wrote them.p >   : 	That runs counter to what Scripture teaches.  But that is 	your opinion, so be it.   > A > There are stories, such as the mauling of the youths who called @ > the prophet "baldhead" that make no sense to me.  Perhaps theyB > were inspired and made sense for that place and time, or perhapsF > they were inserted by a priest who felt the prophets weren't getting > enough respect.c >   ; 	Funny.  This is an example as to why Scripture isn't true o: 	that Sven Heinicke came up with a few years ago.  Sven is: 	a college friend of mine and I ran into him at a friend's 	wedding last year.i  : 	Perhaps Sven (as you) was trying to point out that God is< 	mean or mean-spirited by having children mauled to death.  = 	"Therefore:  I dismiss it entirely as I want no part of such-          a mean religion/god." 	e= 	There are many different views to life and Scripture teachess@ 	that God is Creator and can do with his creation as he pleases.A 	God in this case, wasn't going to allow his prophet to be mockedhF 	and I am sure it struck fear into all that heard about it.  Likewise,D 	God wished to destroy all of Israel for their sin but Moses pleadedA 	on their behalf, and he spared them.  But if once created we areo? 	meant to dwell with God eternally, that gives a higher view ofaA 	life.  After all, in the light of eternity life is but a morningb8 	mist and then we pass into eternity, like those youths.  B > When Jesus sends the Apostles out into the countryside the threeB > synoptics give different instructions.  It is a trivial example, > but argues against dictation..  B 	We could tear up a lot of time digging for inaccuracies.  Doesn't" 	mean what was written isn't true.   >>       Are you kinda likee: >>	Thomas Jefferson in that you have *issues* with certain% >>	parts so , let's ditch that part?   > H > When I find specific issues that appear to conflict with more general A > principles derived from the Bible I am inclined to go with the cB > general principles, esp. when experience shows that violating a * > specific set of verses bears good fruit. > H > I'm not always 100% happy about it but that is where my trust in God's > forgiveness comes in.  > E > There are also other issues involved, e.g. just because it is truthrE > does not mean we understand it (even if we do correctly understand t6 > the individual words, which is not always the case). >   H 	But you can't overlook the ministry of the Holy Spirit in understanding 	what Scripture teaches...  N John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in myM name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said  to you.    John 16:13-14   = 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you0O into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, * and he will tell you what is yet to come. M 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known . to you.    1 Cor 2:9-14  L 9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has: conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --O 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things,h even the deep things of God.O 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within.O him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.bO 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God,i4 that we may understand what God has freely given us.M 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in wordseF taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. L 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the O Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them,  ' because they are spiritually discerned.h  E 	Scripture can't be understood nor accepted without the Spirit of God-? 	being involved.  I would encourage you to read and re-read they 	first 10 chapters of John..   				Robh   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:06:34 -04002 From: Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>> Subject: RE: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%L Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10104301516240.8800-100000@rock.geology.yale.edu>  6 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > M > Each individual does, by resolving each fresh situation's conflicts as they: > arise.  8 Not only is it relative then but also *very* relative.      > Mihali wrote:b+ > >  On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Tom Linden wrote:s > > >.D > > > An Arbiter arbitrates.  A philosophy can't arbitrate anything. > $ > > Good point. Who arbitrates then?       - Mihali 	l@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+@ | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |@ | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |@ | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |@ | Box 208109                          |                        |@ | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:13:54 -04002 From: Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%M Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10104301412510.11743-100000@rock.geology.yale.edu>h  6 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > J > So is religion. Or are you going to argue that every catholic interpretsL > the catholic teachings in exactly the same way? It's /all/ personal choice > at some level.  / With humans, yes. With God, by definition, no. h     - Mihali 	i@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+@ | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |@ | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |@ | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |@ | Box 208109                          |                        |@ | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:11:55 -04002 From: Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%L Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10104301516110.8800-100000@rock.geology.yale.edu>  6 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > G > I am not insulted by others having different approaches to life. I am K > insulted by you effectively claiming that mine are worthless because theyn > don't originate with a god.i  J I did not say anything about your morals being worthless. Anyway, whatever> your complaining about is my different approach to life. So?         - Mihali 	r@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+@ | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |@ | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |@ | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |@ | Box 208109                          |                        |@ | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:18:54 -04002 From: Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%M Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10105010014320.13426-100000@rock.geology.yale.edu>o  ) On Tue, 1 May 2001, Christof Brass wrote:e  @ > Incredible! Please be so kind and firstly define the notion of@ > "God" - I don't understand the word because it is used in that@ > many ways that we need a precise definition to understand what > you are talking about.  : Surprising! What other definitions of God do you know of?      - Mihali 	n@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+@ | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |@ | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |@ | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |@ | Box 208109                          |                        |@ | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 00:25:05 -04002 From: Mihali Felipe <mihali@hess.geology.yale.edu>> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%M Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10105010024200.13426-100000@rock.geology.yale.edu>d  6 On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: >  > So is religion.    Yes.  : > Or are you going to argue that every catholic interprets2 > the catholic teachings in exactly the same way?    No.      - Mihali 	r@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+@ | Mihali Felipe                       | mihali.felipe@yale.edu |@ | Yale University                     | OFFC (203)432-9808     |@ | Department of Geology and Geophysics| FAX  (203)432-3134     |@ | Box 208109                          |                        |@ | New Haven, CT  06520-8109           |                        |@ +-------------------------------------+------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 16:40:52 -05007 From: hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)mM Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% - WAAAAY OT!!!o3 Message-ID: <oU+7QkWqIEt0@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  	 OMG - :-)   . Can this thread be taken to alt.religions.*???   Thanks. b >In article <HqpOnUZp1kuy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:S > In article <9ckf3p$ijk$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu writes:i >  >> lD >> Of course some fundimentalists feel the same way about me becauseC >> I don't view the Bible as a word-for-word dictated communication G >> from YHWH.  Some of them feel that anything less than that (or less  ? >> than something very close to that description) brings in an e# >> intolerable amount of ambiguity.m >>   > ? > 	The term "fundamentalist" has its own history...  let's skipl@ > 	that... but regarding the view of Scriptural inerrancy, which> > 	part of the Bible do you disagree with?  Are you kinda like: > 	Thomas Jefferson in that you have *issues* with certainA > 	parts so , let's ditch that part?  (Jefferson whacked miraclesv4 > 	from his version or interpretation of the Bible). > > > 	The reason I ask, for instance is there are good supportingB > 	texts to argue for inerrancy.  As a quick Google search reveals! > 	a worthy example of just that:i > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qscriptureinspired.html > O > The word inspiration literally means "God-breathed" in the Greek. And becausemI > Scripture is breathed out by God, it is true and inerrant. Consider them > following syllogism: > 0 >      Major Premise: God is true (Romans 3:4).  > G >      Minor Premise: God breathed out the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16).x > C >      Conclusion: Therefore, the Scriptures are true (John 17:17).0 > N > As illustrated above, the inerrancy of Scripture can be inferred by premisesP > that are themselves taught by Scripture. We read in Scripture that truth is anO > attribute of God (Jeremiah 10:10; John 1:14; 14:6; 17:3), and that God speaksaQ > truthfully--that is, He does not lie (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Titus 1:2; L > Romans 3:3-4). We also are told that Scripture is "breathed out" by God (2I > Timothy 3:16). The Word of God, then, is true (John 17:14,17; cf. Psalmf- > 119:142; 151; 160; Revelation 21:5; 22:6). y >  > 	 > 				Robt >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Apr 2001 16:51:17 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)rM Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% - WAAAAY OT!!!o3 Message-ID: <A24Or9bV5Zj1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <oU+7QkWqIEt0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:i > OMG - :-)  > 0 > Can this thread be taken to alt.religions.*??? >   $ 	Post here, get a follow-up here ;-)   			Rob   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.242 ************************