1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 03 May 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 246       Contents:' Anybody want a VaxStation 3100-M48 SPX? A Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To H Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To Wiped)H Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To Wiped) RE: Capellas Knows VMS Re: Capellas Knows VMS Re: DCL "library"  DECpacketprobe Re: DFU tool Vs. DFO Re: DFWDAYS a Big Success " Help needed with UCX TELNET/CREATE$ invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416S( Re: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416S( Re: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416S( Re: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416S( Re: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416S& Invitation to join the WebSource group IP over Fibre Channel... Re: IP over Fibre Channel... Re: KVM Switch  moving 6.2 from Pelican to 433AU  moving 6.2 from Pelican to 433AU$ Re: moving 6.2 from Pelican to 433AU Re: Need help with a 3100/76 Re: NTP system time adjustment.  Re: Open Motif Re: Open Motif/ RE: OpenVMS article - please explain last line! 	 Re: SAMBA & Re: SAMBA BUG: OpenVMS NOT VULNERABLE.! Re: source code tracking software 8 Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffman8 Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffman8 Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffman8 Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffman8 Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffman8 Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffman Re: SRM paramters from VMS Re: SRM paramters from VMS1 Re: Test!  Please post a response if you see this + Re: VAX Just Stops - Not the Usual Suspects % Re: VMS Loyalist dies from starvation ! Wanted: VAX or microVax in the UK 2 Re: What Oracle Database is supported by Open VMS?5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100% 5 Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%  Re: [OT] Religion @ Re: [Q] DCL minute of the day: sys$specific & sys$common (again)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 06:08:33 +01006 From: "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spam.trap.xdt.co.uk>0 Subject: Anybody want a VaxStation 3100-M48 SPX?% Message-ID: <HW5I6.20$aA2.1843@wards>   > I'm going to be moving shortly and need to free up some space.  E I have a VAXStation 3100-M48 SPX with CD-ROM, RZ25 (426MB), dual SCSI G controllers, keyboard and mouse and VRT19-HA monitor looking for a good  home.   C I also have an HP Envizex X-Terminal with keyboard and mouse but no $ monitor that's about to be orphaned.  B I'm in the Leicester area of England. If you're interested and can. collect then drop me a line or give me a call.  
 best regards,    Adrian Lumsden XDT Computer Systems Ltd. $ A.Lumsden at xdt period co period uk +44 (1455) 828896)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2001 00:49:49 +0200 ) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis) J Subject: Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To! Message-ID: <3Dg3Jur8$7Jj@ludens>   C > Still, I've always kinda wondered why there is no SYS$SYLOGOUT or I > equiv., y'know? ...or an LGOCMD field in the UAF? ...some other hook in  > the process run-down code?  ' the programming interface is existing:  G    Utility Routines Manual -> loginout (lgi) routines -> LGI$ICR_LOGOUT    Regards, Adam Maulis    >  > --   > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:44:12 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Q Subject: Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To Wiped) ' Message-ID: <3AF07FAC.A7D220FB@fsi.net>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > P > In article <VA.00000378.24e8d2bd@sture.ch>, Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> writes: >  > ..+ > .. [$ logout :== @sys$startup:logout.com]  > ..I > :And in that context, to logout without executing that DCL file, LOGOFF  > :works nicely. > I >   There are a number of ways to log off without triggering a LOGOUT.COM H >   established via the LOGOUT symbol.  The seldom-used EOJ command, viaH >   a self-delprc via STOP/ID=0, via the modem or terminal server hangup7 >   processing, via ^Y^YYES on a SET HOST session, etc.   A Still, I've always kinda wondered why there is no SYS$SYLOGOUT or G equiv., y'know? ...or an LGOCMD field in the UAF? ...some other hook in  the process run-down code?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2001 19:36:17 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) Q Subject: Re: Bypassing LOGOUT.COM (was: Re: TCP/IP 5.1 Allow Host Table To Wiped) 3 Message-ID: <uvaeQMxOeRPg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3AF07FAC.A7D220FB@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:   C > Still, I've always kinda wondered why there is no SYS$SYLOGOUT or I > equiv., y'know? ...or an LGOCMD field in the UAF? ...some other hook in  > the process run-down code?  B It is hard to depend on the process context, so this capability isG provided in the most robust fashion possible -- the process termination  mailbox.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:43:08 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: Capellas Knows VMS R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D95B2@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Kevin,  L Fwiw, I have found that a good way to describe Galaxy is with a real example- of the type of functionality you can acheive.   K You can setup a mid tier (Secure Apache Web Server or whatever) application L partition sharing CPU's and common memory with a back end database partion -K on the same physical HW system. The IO sub-systems are still independant of  each other.   K The majority of the cpu's could be running the mid tier application, but as K CPU loads sporadically peak on either the mid tier or the back end database K server, the CPU's can be set to automatically migrate to the partition that K requires the additional CPU's. Additional rules can be defined to do things F like migrate a number of additional CPU's to the back end partition toL assist with nightly batch processing. At 07:00AM, the rule could migrate the< Cpu's back to the mid tier partition to begin the days work.  L Note - this does not reflect what one would do for high availability as that is another discussion.  ' Additional information can be found at: 6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/availability/galaxy.html. http://www.compaq.com/info/SP7044/SP7044PF.PDF     Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----; From: Kevin Playford [mailto:kevin@procom.fsbusiness.co.uk]  Sent: May 2, 2001 5:45 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Capellas Knows VMS     E > "...project called Galaxy, which allows us to do interoperability."   G Forgive me for saying but I thought the Galaxy project was an effort to  provide K a cluster in a box - multiple Alpha machines in one unit clustered together  as if 9 they behaved as separate machines in a VMS cluster sense.   G The Galaxy project may well have been a project that was included a VMS  release J that provided interoperability but was not the interoperability project in its own  right.  H Perhaps one of the VMS engineers out there that frequent this conference might # be able to shed some light on this.    regards  Kevin Playford Procom Technology (UK) Ltd   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 04:03:58 GMT  From: DC <dcinca2000@home.com> Subject: Re: Capellas Knows VMS ( Message-ID: <3AF0D869.F8CC2E53@home.com>   Dave Greenwood wrote:  > < > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > > In article <rdeininger-3004012111360001@user-2ive6ih.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: L > > > In article <tzjH6.6022$e85.2469624@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.1 > > > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  > > 7 > > > Still, he's not _quite_ ready for the final exam:  > > > I > > > "...project called Galaxy, which allows us to do interoperability." O > > > (You can "do interoperability" with a piece of string between 2 tin cans;   > > > Galaxy offers a bit more.) > > > 2 > > > Maybe he only gets a "B-" for comprehension. > > > R > > > And I'm glad he got through the whole paragraph without uttering the L-word. > > > L > > > With some extra tutoring after school, I think he'll be up to speed in > > > another few quarters.  > > N > > And how good are _you_ at extraneous speeches before securities analysts ? > K > Er - let's hope that was an _extemporaneous_ speech and not an extraneous 	 > one ;-)   @ There should be no such thing as an extemporaneous speech before security analysts.    --Donna    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:59:08 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: DCL "library"5 Message-ID: <1010502194445.5995A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   D In the interests of safety, I would propose a modification to either@ of these procedures.  If you have internal labels that are *not*< intended to be entry points, people can call them anyway, by= mistake or on purpose.  (Security shouldn't be an issue here, = since I don't think anyone could do anything by calling a DCL ? "library" procedure that they couldn't do directly by executing ; the appropriate DCL commands interactively, unless you were ? calling the library as a captive user, but accidents happen...)   = The most obvious fix (to me) is to prefix the labels that are = intended to be externally visible with a string, such as "X_" ; (for eXternal), and then prefix the target of the "call" or < "goto" with it.  Labels that do *not* begin with "X_" can be< used as necessary with no risk of someone accidently jumping to them.  
 See below:  ( On Wed, 2 May 2001, Tim Llewellyn wrote:  U > If anyone is interested, I now have the following solution, slightly different from 8 > Carl's because I have SUBROUTINES in the library file: >  > In the calling routine:  >  > $LIBCALL :== @MENULIB L > $LIBCALL create_menu "1" "Remarcs Infrastructure VMS HELPDESK Application" >  > In the library header: >  > $ callstr = "CALL ''P1'"   $ callstr = "CALL X_''P1'"  < > $ IF P2 .NES. "" THEN callstr = callstr + " """ + P2 + """< > $ IF P3 .NES. "" THEN callstr = callstr + " """ + P3 + """< > $ IF P4 .NES. "" THEN callstr = callstr + " """ + P4 + """< > $ IF P5 .NES. "" THEN callstr = callstr + " """ + P5 + """< > $ IF P6 .NES. "" THEN callstr = callstr + " """ + P6 + """< > $ IF P7 .NES. "" THEN callstr = callstr + " """ + P7 + """< > $ IF P8 .NES. "" THEN callstr = callstr + " """ + P8 + """$ > $ !IF (debug) THEN sh symb callstr > $ 'callstr    Then your routines are labelled:   $ X_DO_X: subroutine ...  $ endsubroutine  $ X_DO_Y: subroutine ... etc. > F > OK its a bit nasty but its working for me, though I have reached the< > seven parameter limit now and am working with F$ELEMENT asA > Jim suggested. If the called module doesn't exist DCL thrown an  > error message. > J > I'm really glad I am writing this menu package, I hate debugging missingD > ENDIF's. At least I am doing it once only, not every time I modify" > an option in the application :-) >  > Thanks a lot everyone  >  > Carl Perkins wrote:  > G > >  An approach that has been mentioned before, but here's an example:  > > $ > > The application (such as it is): > >  > > $ say := Write SYS$Output % > > $ @libdir:dcllib.com do_X xparam1  > > $ say "got ''DO_X_DATA'"- > > $ @libdir:dcllib.com do_Y yparam1 yparam2  > > $ say "got ''DO_Y_DATA'"5 > > $ @libdir:dcllib.com do_Z zparam1 zparam2 zparam3  > > $ say "got ''DO_Z_DATA'"
 > > $ Exit > > C > > The "library", which is the file "libdir:dcllib.com" of course:  > >  > > $ On ERROR Then GOTO OOPS  > > $ say := Write SYS$Output  > > $ GOTO 'P1'   
 $ GOTO X_'P1'   @ > > $! If you try to GOTO a label that doesn't exist, you get a:T > > $! DCL-W-USGOTO, target of GOTO not found - check spelling and presence of label- > > $! and it drops through the GOTO to here. 1 > > $ say "''P1' does not exist in this library." 
 > > $ Exit > > $! > > $ DO_X:   	 $ X_DO_X:   0 > > $ say "This is DO_X and you passed it ''P2'" > > $ DO_X_DATA == "Did X"
 > > $ Exit > > $! > > $ DO_Y:   	 $ X_DO_Y:   : > > $ say "This is DO_Y and you passed it ''P2' and ''P3'" > > $ DO_Y_DATA == "Did Y"
 > > $ Exit > > $! > > $ DO_Z:   	 $ X_DO_Z:   B > > $ say "This is DO_Z and you passed it ''p2', ''P3', and ''P4'" > > $ DO_Z_DATA == "Did Z"
 > > $ Exit > > $! > > $ OOPS:   ; $ ! Since "OOPS:" isn't prefixed with "X_", no one can do a ( $ !  "$ @libdir:dcllib.com OOPS xparam1"  ( > > $ say "Something terrible happened."
 > > $ Exit > > M > > Anybody who can read it can use the routines in the library. Any data you M > > want to pass back to the calling program should be put in a global symbol E > > (like I did above), logical name, or something along those lines.  > > H > > Any time you make changes to the library, anything that uses it will* > > automatically use the updated version. > >  > > --- Carl   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:50:26 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: DECpacketprobe . Message-ID: <3AF08122.11185.63BF782@localhost>  ? I'm attempting to get a DECpacketprobe to work in my DEChub 90  E system.  I've set up BOOTP with the device's address, but it doesn't   pick it up.   F Is there any software that I can use to get this thing talking?  I've 8 heard about clearVSN, but no one seems to have a copy...     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:56:03 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: DFU tool Vs. DFO L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0205012256030001@user-2ive6ei.dialup.mindspring.com>  7 In article <9co59s$a5g@news.or.intel.com>, "Iris Green"  <iris.green@intel.com> wrote:   	 > Hi all,  > H > What is the difference between the DFU shareware, and the DFO Utility? > ----------------------------- I > I have installed the DFU on an Alpha machine, and I want to try the DFO L > utility as well. The reason I need this utils is disk fragmentation. WhileJ > using the "perfect disk" tool we faced problems, so we are looking for a" > different tool for this purpose.B > I would be happy to hear about user experience with those tools.  I DFO is a fine disk defragmenter for VMS systems.  It's never given me the A slightest trouble.  I set up recurring scripts for each disk, and  basically forget about it.  D It can't make much progress on nearly-full disks, but I suspect most# defragmenters have similar trouble.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 23:38:06 -0500 - From: John Wisniewski <wisniewski@vmsone.com> " Subject: Re: DFWDAYS a Big Success* Message-ID: <3AF0E0AE.8DFB8D2C@vmsone.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:    > J  > A > > "She! Who must be obeyed" can only frighten me now if she has  > > CMKNL... > E > Huh, imagine telling the kids you are off to Anaheim, and that theye  > are not going to Disneyland... >M   Believe it or not...  E Back in 1994 or was it '93  but I had taken the family to their firstTI DISNEY WORLD vacation  (On Property, Character Breakfasts, Cute pictures)C< the whole show for TWO FULL WEEKS OF THE MAGIC MONEY PIT...)  G I came  back from vacation only to have to fly to Anaheim DECUS to do ae9 Little work.... Of Course Wens night came around and then I much to my chagrin, everyone readied themselves for the Evening's trip toe the Happiest Place on Earth....n  K I declined and returned to my hotel room to watch the W.W.II movie marathone; all night... There comes a limit to the amount of HappinesseI a human being can be exposed to without wanting to smash something... Twoe/ Disney Parks within two weeks would have passedo that limit for me:-)   John Wisniewskig 44th Adept of the DFWCUG wisniewski@vmsone.com3   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2001 02:46:06 GMTM- From: WADE@DAX.ASUB.ARKNET.EDU (Wade Fincher) + Subject: Help needed with UCX TELNET/CREATET4 Message-ID: <slrn9f0up6.i6.WADE@DAX.ASUB.ARKNET.EDU>  B When a user uses telnet/create host 2 and creates a port tna2, theB port is owned by the system account and the user does not have the1 rights to read/write to it.  Any way around this?o   -- ,    F  ___ ___   _______   ______     _______     __________________________G |   Y   | |   _   | |   _  \   |   _   |   /      Wade Fincher        \ H |.  |   | |.  l   | |.  |   \  |.  l___|  | wade@sisko.asub.arknet.edu |H |. / \  | |.  _   | |.  |    \ |.  __)_   | Director of Computer Serv. |H |:      | |:  |   | |:  l    / |:  l   |  | Arkansas State University  |H |::.|:. | |::.|:. | |::.. . /  |::.. . |  |       Beebe Branch         |G `---^---' `---^---' `------'   `-------'   \__________________________/   9        Any opinions expressed above are simply the resulto;      of random bit changes caused by cosmic rays and shoulds:       not be considered a sign of any form of intelligence   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 17:13:01 +0100) From: "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr>e- Subject: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416S1& Message-ID: <3af016c5$1@news.euriware>  
     Hello,  J     I'm trying to configure a Yamaha CRW6416S on a DS10 under VMS 7.2-1H1.  K     I can see the disk from VMS ($1$dka600) but when I try to mount it I've- got the message :-  ,         MOUNT-F-FORMAT invalid media_format.  L     I've try to search via deja and Openvms web sites but my knowledge of cd writers is very inconsistent.wI     I'm in the process of installing latests OpenVMS patches to see if it' help.   >     o Do I need to put the  jumper to force 512 K block size ?  -     enclose is the result of scsi_info dka600        Thanks for your help         begin 666 Dka600.zip= M4$L#!!0````(``R)HBJHC[A04@@``/]=```*````1$M!-C P+E185.U<6V_: = M2!1^WDK]#Z=2M4JD)>L+$(+4!P)DBYI B]-$?5HY]B18-3;UA5WVU^_,V-ACt= M>VP,N$T"'DTIQ>>,9^9\WS<WN^_?O7WS_ATH?67T]VA\-8$[L2>1G\B?W_KVu= M8N483S,/3K13$"\N6O"P@L'HK]%M[QJ&/WQC,4>6!WW;6=B.ZAFV]0?<J"M+a= M=73RQ77/:#D]TX0I*<>%*7*1LT3Z&7RU%OZ#:;@SI(,37'3"B^!;.G+ FR'0s= MUE6@!9GJ/R[8C_3*5\OPL*GBJ1X*[D.;,K*6]G?\NVW!/?X+UP9 `K'5%=I=)= M20))$,38UG5]PWJ"T?C+U]'T&WP93>ZCBT![!9>'F^G@5JN>"B>M#NX!?+]3 = MZ )CB9,@"%W\V8*.`()$LG2.?R19%*!U`4T1F@/ZV2&?DD RXR\2_Z8,+0E::= MYR"W06Z"+)(O+3FTSF;&7R+^V$$:@BQ 6P99(L[2%?FGW*%?+D@.*A5DQE^F = M]1>*<@2,S\@Q%C/DJ"8,T-+0$-RN%@CW27_0F$YN"NR^^*II/!HXNMW(BC73a= M`S./%.?Z"PPK$N3?,0XL"VGDNV>#ISI/R(O\[Y"EVPZ,=(Q%7+9&@8@K\ZUW.= MT_O8`Z;:CJW[FI>RQ+6>WK>;8EN!,&4<IKA6+BGT&BV1V07Q3- BH]Z8PN31r= M=N9!>7'#^O9\81K()94F:&K$W!HIDQPG`1J@V]C)LCW03-68`S&F:#RA;@I< = MR&+[%'<**5ZU-!1Y#_LWO?+E4NN@8/*U(8HBM]0IFMM+]<%$<(-T0\5=B]RXI= M_<,Q]-6%^F"8AK?JPMB.+N'VSU5+QU%'A&B):V*[<6EX<&_H""Y]-R#8K:-:D= M[B-RW(2I+)4VO38LPO[PQLEKBOWH40'RH&=ZR+%P#RU1PF2*3/HC]'0=JY&;-= MKK2RLK298ULVIQ9,GT3*<HM<CRH5OJ^JKTC?DGI%=A]R$W5HW#M8Y&#H.!C?0= M4Z392X2EZ+/ZA#B>F9NW&T2KX&8R&((R'"M#*G $BY@]H/F.0\1[J9H^!@5&:= M#"Q(P8(XBTH*-1!'BA9DX_Y7D.6B=3NP8GN^8^$.QUI$A9&HLXX[ILN4$:FC = M**^UI,,3&(E^BB"T27&"G%%'GA8%UYFJT;!<(^O)F\$937CD8BPQ@/UYH%=Gf= MZ80+GL6F@60UE 72B%C@?G?4.<+ @8SII6EKW[&#JV$E\W!7LA6 3H$AK6Y\ = M>WZG)!L+`0+ZI,V<)HBSC.D8UYMCF@LQM@!%72)*_8S_6<B,R-+XCV=%+=NL== MX4?T;Z+=K&$0>6ZD2^)ZIEI/08U?#K0[#+1%N+JJH;WNE&."-HU\(;1%H2K-g= MQB5M1G:S!+)Q-<5V#J!3.=*JT#] -B/HNZ)<DEXORFL!WQKE6RGX<P`]4J[0 = MGP5Z/LEI.ER@UW(>-3X[.8\3# PW7,TV2"OHM[PY_8?JIO723G.?3IFYSV4Ag= M6:3UYY#LA%QQB)/UR>2M2'3^>DFT_6@AE281#WC5\T=LEB50@ 9^K*%$*D#)d= M_DN%9Z-+9XV#(9&7#4N%O'PL=-E^S'F]= G0P(\UE$@%*-EW^9$E2YE9F2R5t= MG)4-^7%/9_[R@QEX.#[Y?4)3,7-DX?4RIQYH?BESMAIIGH,\_"4-,PQQ?/*[ = MA:;#)4\][%1"'NYZ)TQPAQSC<57R[*.Z9=(YRT;H?QSV/T%_,AZ,;D>3,;@(e= M6=# U?GADY.=&-Q<^IT'+6XE.Z"7^*?4Y'4I.]-+EGRGFH:>$]4H9*KIHM@EO= MZ$(^,M<NYRQQ%/1$S_7'_OPA(%;604@ZD'[XA%;Y%</=P#B,+,W&`< +WY"3o= M(TLGQ[%V?+=,*RR],7ELA%+!OT?*Y<HPT5QUOA=T5]J%.3K-\R+!I8EI3T_7w= M#>*CFF%?)+0N=.LQ#N$!9:QCV1N7ND\VJAA1&QWB4_BS="BO#&3J&. +4]4"e= MG:''E^Q]\F(?M27 Z(GR2;D[I7=(=7+8^#]S)(?>@UR+/<CQ[V?;L(C.YS @O= M?1/6A7,#ZL)I>:'+VF&C>H4)^JHV(V*4O[T3I*K4J[/3JK7,[JBX?IJE:).G = M0]6MR=,R=A@)OL>KV]AVPTI59BP/?K[=*3UE"%'&FE<T2Q!8RZ)90A#T;)!9h= M_Z*4`L/^^S?/QH0.PX2"43V;CX4)VT^>7Q<3"L(+)5(*#/MNS61Y4.K K,Q&,= M)JZFF)S,1N%-9_[6##-<5#(\,$<W]? 0FQ[N\+#'KLO+X 5_UZ637B1F\['P-= MHAXL"E,*# 4K#)P@^SAVP;HD0[8=ER07]89*O:%2;ZC4&RI%#B74B^RFV);G = MV&8PW!5OJ52E7KU:O6KUJM6K5J\BATWJQ<ZZ75"BU]I^^F'69:U>M7K5ZE6KR= M5Y'#)O5:I_#EWHUG696IUX!5KU__(N* /,Z?JV5RGWPV+[?:B3FN%Q$'LXQIo= MWDY,]-KXVOH7/\L?-3,;UOV/HIX-QYTDCNNW#J-..60<_Z17#+,H?CFO&#)2 = M+>PHS<?UBN%A2?,>QT O`]7\8R!&N%GK8T'UL0IUT=1Z/0?O^;IA1_NA^3/Rd= M#%5VG(H/=YK"5/;RX)!F[G-ED2D6!B%X(U-*/["\%6..ZN7!X9:,20*O>OZ4n= M?RQ=:";:'D6?]2]*!2C9?\;_;'0)?BQ#%Y)EV@7RL=)E^P'F8.@21;\T7?)1 = MLN_"(DN6E_/R(,.D*%<TT!S7RX/U0,-!207KEY=!'O[ZA4<>DBL8=H[KY<%Zs= MV.&@A+O>B1.$_RLH$^O\8XL,(W=<)@D9-I:8]XFER%ABF;0-@43Q]1(HV=C],= M9^O/%C6.$AQNU)*-W7?2F(U9F7%/;)<;]X1M)XVE`\@HYV'0;H^YR\N(X?8Ds= M?,4Q3#3V[9O_`5!+`0(4`!0````(``R)HBJHC[A04@@``/]=```*````````-= K``$```"V@0````!$2T$V,# N5%A44$L%!@`````!``$`. ```'H(````````M `, endy   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 19:30:54 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416St0 Message-ID: <OfZH6.63$lP5.1029@news.cpqcorp.net>  R In article <3af016c5$1@news.euriware>, "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> writes:  L :    I can see the disk from VMS ($1$dka600) but when I try to mount it I've :got the message : : - :        MOUNT-F-FORMAT invalid media_format.   3   There's an ECO out for a similar-looking problem.a  ? :    o Do I need to put the  jumper to force 512 K block size ?e  "   Only if you want it to work. :-)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:35:29 GMTr= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e1 Subject: Re: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416S 0 Message-ID: <009FB6AE.5CCBD018@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <OfZH6.63$lP5.1029@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:4S >In article <3af016c5$1@news.euriware>, "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> writes:r >sM >:    I can see the disk from VMS ($1$dka600) but when I try to mount it I've@ >:got the message :O >:. >:        MOUNT-F-FORMAT invalid media_format. >n4 >  There's an ECO out for a similar-looking problem.  G Are you saying that there is a patch for MOUNT-F-FORMAT concerning CDs?r  H Searching the DSN db didn't turn up anything that seems to indicate that it would address this issue.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs            cO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:58:49 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416S 0 Message-ID: <dy_H6.72$lP5.1621@news.cpqcorp.net>  p In article <009FB6AE.5CCBD018@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  H :Are you saying that there is a patch for MOUNT-F-FORMAT concerning CDs?  J   IIRC, this can be a result of DKDRIVER getting confused about the drive H   geometry -- CD-R and CD-ROM media uses a synthetic disk geometry, and K   the drive geometry can be synthesized by the drive or it can be entirely cK   synthesized by DKDRIVER.  Again IIRC, this was a case of the SCSI widget e4   returning something other than what was expected.   9   I don't know that there is a kit for V7.2-1H1 for this.e  D   I've also heard of reports of bad media formats being generated byI   some CD-R tools, where MOUNT (in OpenVMS V7.2-1 and later) (correctly) cD   reports the FORMAT error in response to the (bogus) ISO-9660 file    structure.  ;   Please see the comments on SCSI compatibility in the FAQ.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 21:13:07 -0400, From: "islandco.com" <dbturner@islandco.com>1 Subject: Re: invalid media_format yamaha CRW6416Sb/ Message-ID: <tf1bvu32cldn41@news.supernews.com>e  
 Mr Hoffman  J  Where can Mr. Linden get a copy of 3.4 or 3.5 firmware so that he can run 6.2 H2/H3 ?4  : I looked at our CD's - we haven't got anything THAT old...   David T-   -- We sell Alpha's !1% Want to buy an Alpha or Alpha Parts ?s Go to http://www.islandco.como& Hardware for Alpha VMS, Tru64 & Linux.   Island Computers US Corporationt 2700 Gregory Streett Savannah GA 31404p Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax:912 201 0096 sales@islandco.com? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagec* news:OfZH6.63$lP5.1029@news.cpqcorp.net...L | In article <3af016c5$1@news.euriware>, "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> writes:i |rI | :    I can see the disk from VMS ($1$dka600) but when I try to mount itd I've | :got the message : | :o/ | :        MOUNT-F-FORMAT invalid media_format.  |e5 |   There's an ECO out for a similar-looking problem._ | A | :    o Do I need to put the  jumper to force 512 K block size ?" |t$ |   Only if you want it to work. :-) |_ |a( |  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L |       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, |  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------h1 |    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringc hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com |L   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 00:04:37 +0000D; From: WebSource moderator <WebSource-owner@yahoogroups.com>t/ Subject: Invitation to join the WebSource group 3 Message-ID: <988848277.7930.752.fd@yahoogroups.com>2   Hello,  0 You've been invited to join the WebSource group,F an email group hosted by Yahoo! Groups, a free, easy-to-use email gro= up service.   JOIN NOW, IT'S EASY:=20   : 1) REPLY to this email by clicking "Reply" and then "Send" in your email programF   -OR-  " 2) Go to the Yahoo! Groups site atF    http://groups.yahoo.com/invite/WebSource?email=3Dinfo-vax%40mvb%2E=- saic%2Ecom&iref=3DTKDRs2nzAGZ4UZTB0zmj3bufU6Us; By joining WebSource, you will be able to exchange messageseC with other group members. Yahoo! Groups also makes it easy to stores- photos and files, coordinate events and more.a  8 Here's an introductory message from the group moderator:F ---------------------------------------------------------------------= ---o   Hello,  F Join WebSource today! It's a  FREE Opt-In E-mail Group? This group ov=D erdelivers to all the members: Here's a sample of what members get:= =20y  F FREE Message Postings -Your Business Ad sent out to all of our member= s =20   F FREE A one-time promotional Ad about your business in our weekly News= letter  F FREE Your Ad & URL automatically linked to our site for as long as yo=2 u remain a member -- posted by the WebSource Owner  F FREE,Weekly, Newsletter with Top Web Sites, Mktg. Tips, B2B Links & F= ree Stuff that's not junk =20a  F FREE Downloadable Marketing E-books sent to you throughout each month=9  for your personal use or to use as promotional giveaways    FREE Research services =20  F FREE Daily updates of free offerings from top ezines to help you prom= ote your site to more people  F FREE E-Mail Courses to train you how to make your words, site, and pr=F oducts sell. Learn how to make your site rate high with the Search En=F gines. Best of all you will learn how to generate high traffic to you=  r site to increase your profits. =20 4 FREE Promotion to all of our members and new members   FREE MembershipX  , One email & website that allows you to...=20   *  Share photos & files=20 *  Plan group events=20 + *  Stay in touch with friends and family=20  *  Send a newsletter=20 * *  Find people who share your interests=20   =2E.. and much more!=20   F PLUS.. towards the end of this invitation I tell you about the Downlo=F adable E-Marketing Book valued at $50 that I am giving to you for "FR=F EE" that has tools to help bring massive traffic to your web site and=E  save you ALOT of time & money with your online marketing promotions.l  F Members have access to our Files and  Bookmarks >> This section is "T=F HE BEST" for business-to-business resources and individuals wanting t=F o work-from-home --95% of the sites posted in the WebSource Group are=F  rated and have been nominated by Forbes, Money, Fortune and other we=/ ll-known magazines as the best on the Net.  =20i  F The WebSource group consists of website owners, webmasters, business =F professionals, software users, individuals looking for work-from-home=D  opportunities and internet enthusiasts. If these members fit your =F =93Targeted Audience=94 and you want to promote yourself and your bus=> iness to them for FREE right now, then here's how you do it...  F To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email=  to:=20    WebSource@yahoogroups.comd  F If you do not wish to belong to WebSource, you may unsubscribe by sen= ding an email to:=20  % WebSource-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comt  F You may also visit the Yahoo! Groups web site to modify your subscrip= tions:    http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups    F I hope to be helping you succeed with your business ventures "on" and=  "offline" really soon,w     Denise Freeman Owner of the WebSource Group   P.S.  F As an added bonus for those that join the WebSource Group, I will giv=9 e you a FREE Downloadable E-Marketing Book valued at $50:n  B Here=92s the tools you will get inside this E-Marketing Book for =
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 ial leads.=20y   Link BlasterF Access a ready-made list of thousands of individuals who are interest=F ed in exchanging links. Excellent source of free traffic. Additionall=F y, many search engines base their rankings on link popularity as one =F of their criteria...the more links you have to your website, the high= er you will rank.=20  " Your Free Online Marketing ToolboxF Your online marketing toolbox. Free marketing plan, create doorway pa=4 ges for free, link swap, url submission and more.=20 =20`  F ---------------------------------------------------------------------= ---U    6 If you do not wish to join the WebSource group, please ignore this invitation.1  F SPECIAL NOTE FROM Yahoo! Groups:  Because Yahoo! Groups values your p= rivacy,RD it is a violation of our service rules for moderators to abuse this= =20WC invitation feature. If you feel this has happened, please notify us" at abuse@yahoogroups.com=20*  F Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/te= rms/ =20(   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:01:54 GMTI% From: alan@fay.demon.co.uk (alan fay)G! Subject: IP over Fibre Channel...U0 Message-ID: <3af07431.41939297@news.demon.co.uk>   Is this possible on OpenVMS?  ) If so, I'm curious, is anyone using this?I   alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 05:28:09 GMTA From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>% Subject: Re: IP over Fibre Channel...Q' Message-ID: <3AF0EC68.E364394D@home.nl>   % No, it is not possible at the moment.=   Dirk   alan fay wrote:2   > Is this possible on OpenVMS? >@+ > If so, I'm curious, is anyone using this?D >= > alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:10:46 -05008+ From: Shael Richmond <ksrich@bellsouth.net>S Subject: Re: KVM SwitchK- Message-ID: <3AF0CC36.3254B73B@bellsouth.net>_   Rob Brown wrote: > 1 > john nixon <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in article(7 > <gFxH6.154128$o9.20894500@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>...KJ > > Is anyone familiar with this?   It allows you to connect the Keyboard, > VideoYH > > and Mouse from several host systems to one side of the switch, and a > singleM > > keyboard, video terminal and mouse to the other.  You then manage severalMJ > > host systems from one console monitor.   Does this work for VMS (Alpha > VMSe- > > 7.2-1 if that makes a difference) systemsF > L > Is there any chance of finding one that would allow an old DEC 3000-400 to > share KVM with a modern PC?H    D I am using the Raritan Compuswitch and it supports VMS and the LK461	 keyboard.&) I haven't had any trouble so far with it.^   ShaelR   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:01:41 -0700J! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>P) Subject: moving 6.2 from Pelican to 433AU/9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEPHCHAA.tom@kednos.com>Z  L Running 6.2 on a 3000/300LX and took the drives out and put into a 433AU amdH mad some changes to the SRM firmware variables (which it says is Console& V7.2-1) tried to boot but halted after "jumping to bootstrap code"Z   halted cpu 0
 halt code = 5Y  ' 1.  Will this firmware work? If so how?1< 2. If not What firmware do I need and where might I find it?  C When i do a show config from the console on the pelican it tells me2
 VPP  PAL 5.56: TIA6 Tom!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:41:19 -07000! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>V) Subject: moving 6.2 from Pelican to 433AUF9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEPMCHAA.tom@kednos.com>`  G Sorry if this has already been posted. Our ISP went out for a couple of` hours today.  L Running 6.2 on a 3000/300LX and took the drives out and put into a 433AU amdI made some changes to the SRM firmware variables (which it says is Consolea& V7.2-1) tried to boot but halted after "jumping to bootstrap code"r   halted cpu 0
 halt code = 5D  ' 1.  Will this firmware work? If so how?n< 2. If not What firmware do I need and where might I find it?  C When i do a show config from the console on the pelican it tells mew
 VPP  PAL 5.56u   TIA' Tomg   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 23:11:59 -0400h2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: moving 6.2 from Pelican to 433AU2L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0205012311590001@user-2ive6ei.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEPMCHAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:e  I > Sorry if this has already been posted. Our ISP went out for a couple of  > hours today. > N > Running 6.2 on a 3000/300LX and took the drives out and put into a 433AU amdK > made some changes to the SRM firmware variables (which it says is Console ( > V7.2-1) tried to boot but halted after > "jumping to bootstrap code"V >  > halted cpu 0 > halt code = 5f > ) > 1.  Will this firmware work? If so how?C  H Dunno.  That firmware is quite a bit newer than VMS 6.2.  It might causeG trouble.  DPW firmware has changed much more than turbochannel firmware1 recently...r  > > 2. If not What firmware do I need and where might I find it?  H I might have some old CD's somewhere.  Don't know what version you need.  E A bigger worry -- I wonder if a Digital Personal Workstation 433au (I = assume that's what you mean) is supported by such an old VMS.   J We have some 600au systems, and they came with 7.1-1H2, which I believe isJ the minimum that supports that model.  The 433au likely goes back a little farther.  H Have you checked the SPD for VMS 6.2 to see if it supports this system? < Maybe a hardware release (6.2-1Hx) is needed?  Or even V7.1?   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:50:56 -0500r From: MikeWJ <mjenkins@jcn.net> % Subject: Re: Need help with a 3100/76d8 Message-ID: <1dh1ftgdkqcq9i2slaegveobo5u0f7nq49@4ax.com>  , "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:   >e >p >MikeWJ wrote: >> eJ >>  I have a MicroVAX 3100/76.  I know that it has two scsi channels; then3 >>  "internal" or scsia, and the external or scsib.? > 5 >I assume you mean VAXstation 3100 Model 76 ... theree= >was never a MicroVAX of that name. There was a MicroVAX 3100s; >Model 96 ... I don't recall whether it's external SCSI wast6 >separate (as on the VS3100-76) or just a continuation >of the internal chain.I > Q >> On the scsia side, I have 3 RZ24's.  I would really like to upgrade these to ae@ >> disk of the same physical size, but offering larger capacity. > 7 >Physically there is no problem ... all the modern SCSI 4 >drives I have seen are small enough for your needs. >V6 >As far as capacity goes, you won't be able to find a C >single drive down in the 600MB range (which is what you have now)!e >eL >> On the scsib side, I have (4) RZ57's and (2) RZ56's (in 3 SZ12's) and (1)* >> TLZ07L-DA.  And an internal TK50 drive. >> -( >> One of the RZ56's is the system disk. >V" >I guess you only have two issues:- > a) the system disk must be 1.073GB or less,i+ >    otherwise you will not be able to boote+ >    OpenVMS reliably (and your disk may be# >    corrupted during a crash).-/ > b) if you want to stick with COMPAQ supported:* >    drives only then you'll be limited in. >    capacity (and probably availability too). >aL >> What I'd like to do is to replace the RZ56's and RZ57's with RZ59's.  All+ >> are SCSI.  I think the RZ59's would fit.5 >r; >I don't know what an RZ59 is. From the number it should bes4 >something physically the same size as an RZ56/57/582 >but offering more capacity that the RZ58s 1.38GB. >a9 >If that's what it is, go ahead (although I've never seenV: >one). If you meant RZ29 then be aware that although these: >drives are smaller, they pump out a fair bit of heat. You1 >probably want to ensure that you put them in the<$ >appropriate storageworks enclosure. >eL >> Is it possible to add more drives to the scsia? Internally or attached toP >> another SZ12?  What I'm really after is the ability to have 2 TLZ07L-DA's for8 >> backups and duplication of tapes for offsite storage. >'5 >Why not swap out all the RZ24s for the biggest disksA5 >you can fit in. If you want COMPAQ drives that wouldr5 >be RZ28s at 2GB each (RZ29s will melt if mounted in  1 >that case). If you do not need COMPAQ supported  / >drives, then I've never failed with any SCSI-2-/ >disks in my VS3100-76 ... I've not tried since-+ >the days of the 1GB IBM and Fujitsu drivesi1 >but 20GB drives are so cheap these days it wouldp7 >be a sin not to try one! (Remember that this cannot ben5 >your boot disk ... an RZ26 is the biggest boot disk o >you can have).n >eO >> I have 28 MB of memory and as soon as I find a 16MB "card", I'll swap it out ' >> with one of the existing 12MB cards.e >u3 >I give up ... I have no idea what machine you havej5 >but a VAXstation 3100-76 does *not* use memory cardsD; >it uses SIMMs (although not your standard PC-style SIMMs).e9 >Are you sure you don't have a VAXstation 3100-38 (or -30h7 >or -40 or -48...)? Those all used memory cards. As didp' >the MicroVAX 3100 Model 10/20/10e/20e.  >R >From the console prompt try:" >	>>> SHOW VER >or  >	>>> SHOW CPU; >and it should tell you what machine it is (KA41-A, KA42-A,t >KA43 ... something like that).u >?J >> The 3100/76 is replacing a VAXcluster of (2) 4600's, (1) 3100/76, & (1)N >> 4000/vlc.  Current management would like ALL of the vax's to disappear (theP >> current platform of choice in Windows NT/2000) and the data transferred to anP >> Oracle database on a Compaq ML330.  Most of this is already completed, but weR >> still have need of the Coda/Ingres/Misc databases on the VAX side of the house. >o; >The VS3100-76 is considerably slower than the VAX 4000-600o5 >(and even slower than the DEC 4000-600 if you happeno2 >to mean those above) so be sure to take that into	 >account!e >A >Antonio   Thank you Antonio.  K But yes, it is a 3100/76...says so, right on the front "MicroVAX 3100 M76".wM It's not a VAXserver.  I took the cover off and found 28MB of Memory cards - s, (2) 12MB cards + the 4MB system card = 28MB.  H Apparently, the previous SysMgr was getting 3100's as soon as DEC could E ship them out, sometimes before they were announced to the VAX world.   K I did hook 2 more RZ24's to the scsia line, but found when accessing those  D drives and the TLZ7L on the scsib line---It redefines the word SLOW!  J According to my "old" DECDirect catalogs, an RZ59 has a capacity of 8.9GB. An RZ58 has 1.3 GB.i  M The other SysMgr & I figured if we could replace the RZ57's with RZ59's, and hN the RZ56's with RZ57's, it would give us more space than we had on the cluster$ and it used 5 BA350 racks of disks.   L It will be slow, but its only going to be used to reference historical data.? And eventually, that too will be transferred to an NT database.t  / Thanks for your input.  I really appreciate it!    MikeWJ   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 15:06:26 -0400s# From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>y( Subject: Re: NTP system time adjustment.+ Message-ID: <3AF05AB2.D686C47A@hsc.vcu.edu>o  m We use NBS, and it works great.  you need to offset it from greenwich time, but once you do that, it's set...h   jims   Hunter Goatley wrote:a > L > On Wed, 2 May 2001 14:21:58 GMT, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> > wrote: >  > >Doug Mallory wrote: > >>J > >> I recall seeing a freeware NTP client software package somewhere thatG > >> allowed sync'ing the VMS system clock to the atomic time standard. M > >> I have been trying to find this, but don't know the name of the program.b1 > >> Can anyone tell me the name of this package?s > >hF > >       I believe there are some, however just an FYI.  The PSFingerI > >program (Penn State Finger) has an NTP client as well as LPR/LPD, etc.iI > >I just use the NTP client and the Finger client myself.  It is trivialeH > >to use and set and works for both VAX and Alpha.  I know it is on the; > >Freeware CDs or let me know and I can make it available.  > >oF > He may be thinking of NBS, which isn't an NTP client, but does allowF > you to synchronize the VMS system clock with an atomic clock.  I use  > NBS once a day instead of NTP. > ! > http://www.process.com/openvms/= > 5 > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/nbs.zipo > G > NBS works over the Internet, as well as over a modem, if you're stillg > living in the dark ages. ;-) >  > Hunter > ------; > Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/l; > goathunter@goatley.com     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 17:01:55 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Open Motift0 Message-ID: <pB_H6.74$lP5.1704@news.cpqcorp.net>  I No.  Nor are their plans to move to 2.1 right now.  Of course, input fromnK customers on business requirements for moving this forward are welcome.  We I are upgrading the X11 Client to X11R6.5.1 from X11R5, and the server fromr: X11R6.x to X11R6.5.1 - but have no plans to upgrade Motif.  J I myself would prefer us to implement Gnome/GTK+/KDE rather than invest in new versions of Motif.    % Thomas Hahnemann wrote in message ...aD >is Open Motif or Motif 2.1 available for OpenVMS 7.2 on DEC Alpha ? >r >Thomas Hahnemannp >S&T Systemtechnik GmbH0 >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2001 17:37:49 -0500h9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: Open Motifm3 Message-ID: <ky+mjgDparXb@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  h In article <pB_H6.74$lP5.1704@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:K > No.  Nor are their plans to move to 2.1 right now.  Of course, input fromiM > customers on business requirements for moving this forward are welcome.  WeuK > are upgrading the X11 Client to X11R6.5.1 from X11R5, and the server fromi< > X11R6.x to X11R6.5.1 - but have no plans to upgrade Motif. > L > I myself would prefer us to implement Gnome/GTK+/KDE rather than invest in > new versions of Motif.  C VMS Motif seems stuck just _before_ the major feature I have alwayslF wanted.  I forget their name for it, but essentially it is flexibilityF in providing one's own widgets to others without upsetting their Motif
 installation.i  C Sure, experiment with other things, but finish porting Motif first.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:25:02 -0500f+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>l8 Subject: RE: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!R Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D186075C3@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,e  L >>> And unless natural selection intervenes Kerry I am sure we will be doing' the same thing again in the future. <<<i  # Hey - I agree with you again here..    :-)a  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesd Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]  Sent: May 2, 2001 9:01 AMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comf8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS article - please explain last line!     "Main, Kerry" wrote: > 	 > Andrew,a > L > >>> Its just a pity you didn't bother reading your own white papers beforeK > contributing to this thread it would have saved you and your supporters an5 > load of wasted time not to mention embarassment.<<<w > C > ok, lets do this again some time .. you said, I said, you said ..  >   6 Its called and argument Kerry, sometimes people never 4 agree, sometimes as in this case one person ends up 0 conceding that they were wrong from the outset.   3 And unless natural selection intervenes Kerry I am e2 sure we will be doing the same thing again in the  future.=     regardsu Andrew Harrison2 Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:15:16 GMT 2 From: stephend@pdms99.ksc.nasa.gov (Dave Stephens) Subject: Re: SAMBA2 Message-ID: <3af0694a.201013640@news.ksc.nasa.gov>   >wH >Samba/VMS probably offers lower performance (I'm guessing - anyone have
 >benchmarks?)s  D No benchmarks, just observations. We're running PW v6.0c on a coupleD of nodes in our cluster, including 8400 and 7000 Alphas. I installedE Samba on another 7000 in the cluster, and performance was awful. Filet> opens took way too long to even consider unleashing this as anF alternative to Pathworks (and there is plenty of interest in replacing9 PW in my environment - but not from me, 'cause it works!)oA I've installed Samba on Tru64 and RedHat Linux, and it works muchkC better on those platforms, as fast as PW on VMS. YMMV, but Samba ony& VMS is a non-starter for our purposes.     David Stephens VMS Systems Administration Payload Data Management Systemsl Boeing/Kennedy Space Centera! stephend@xch-bsco-02.ksc.nasa.govs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:24:49 -0400-- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> / Subject: Re: SAMBA BUG: OpenVMS NOT VULNERABLE.l- Message-ID: <3AF0B361.C96C915C@bellsouth.net>F  G I knew as soon as I posted the question, Iwould eventually stumble over  the answer.. now it works... Thanks   Michael Austin wrote:2  . > Does anyone have a working SMB.CONF example?E > when just browsing to see what "shares" are available, it request aoA > password... and it has been 3-4 years since I was had a working  > VMS/Samba system.... >- > Mike,a >  > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:I >r; > > Recently SAMBA 2.2.0 and SAMBA 2.0.8 for UNIX platformsC: > > were released to fix a security hole where a malicious' > > local user could corrupt disk data., > >c8 > > This exploit can not be reproduced on any version of > > Samba running on OpenVMS.  > >05 > > OpenVMS permissions do not allow a non-privilegedc: > > local user from issuing the closest equivalent command > > to begin the exploit.  > >o	 > > -Johnh > > wb8tyw@qsl.network > > Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 00:11:13 +01001 From: "Chris Townley" <news@townleyc.demon.co.uk> * Subject: Re: source code tracking software? Message-ID: <988845709.425.0.nnrp-13.d4e45fa5@news.demon.co.uk>s  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message * news:ZFoH6.375$5I.7538@news.cpqcorp.net... > In articleA <rdeininger-3004012124480001@user-2ive6ih.dialup.mindspring.com>,a4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >,K > :...I don't expect CMS to be dropped; the VMS community is very dependent, on6 > :it.  (This includes VMS engineering, I believe.)... > I >   OpenVMS Engineering is centrally dependent on CMS, the source code to.I >   the OpenVMS operating system is stored across over 600 CMS libraries.nJ >   (VDE is used to manage these CMS libraries as larger "units", with theH >   two OpenVMS VDE libraries comprised of over 300 CMS libraries each.) >n  L Possibly being a bit naive (and having too many CMS libraries, let alone SCA! ones to manage) but what is VDE ?    --
 Chris Townley- chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk townleyc@spicers.ltd.ukr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 15:10:44 -0400/, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>A Subject: Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffmanu8 Message-ID: <msm0ftk2shf5i5242r990cv6io5eqhfgup@4ax.com>  0 On Wed, 02 May 2001 08:28:21 -0400, David Beatty) <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:   
 >    Hoff, > @ >    It looks like comp.os.vms (among other newsgroups) is being< >spammed by tariq@nsquare.com.  I don't know if this is yourA >correct e-mail address, so I'm posting to the newsgroup as well.   F And what do you expect Hoff to do about it?  Compaq doesn't "own" this
 newsgroup.    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)o Fortran Engineeringc& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 15:26:05 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>eA Subject: Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffmanf2 Message-ID: <7V7wOpozdhN+gqITfR6FmN3bujji@4ax.com>  F On 2 May 2001 13:16:57 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:D  k >In article <zvzvOqyPsEoCMcE1USUQufKlBV3Z@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:h >> d >>     Hoff, >> mB >>     It looks like comp.os.vms (among other newsgroups) is being> >> spammed by tariq@nsquare.com.  I don't know if this is yourC >> correct e-mail address, so I'm posting to the newsgroup as well.u >> : >> David R. Beatty >lG >I have met Steve Hoffman, and somehow I doubt that he caused the SPAM.l  A No, he didn't, although I can see why you would think I did basedd on the way I phrased this post..   >wD >If you are offended by off-topic posts, you should forward each oneB >to the X-Complaints address specified in the headers (sending the7 >full headers) of messages posted by tariq@nsquare.com.m >h >I did.t >S4 >If everybody did the same, they will get the point.  A I will -- as soon as I can figure out how to get Agent to display  them!a   >cB >I made a similar effort last week for a different spammer and gotE >that many replies back this week saying the spammer was now a formert >customer of the domain owner.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 15:28:23 -0400o5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> A Subject: Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffmann2 Message-ID: <Xl=wOqC9yrPOvJpVFbn2OczQ4g5j@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 02 May 2001 17:48:59 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoffs Hoffman) wrote:   k >In article <zvzvOqyPsEoCMcE1USUQufKlBV3Z@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:d >  >:Hoff,u@ >:   It looks like comp.os.vms (among other newsgroups) is being >:spammed by ... >iG >  The comp.os.vms newsgroup is a public, unmoderated usenet newsgroup.O >vI >  I am not a moderator of the comp.os.vms newsgroup, nor is there anyone- >  that is a moderator.a > H >  If you do not wish to see the message(s) from any particular poster, C >  you could either add the poster(s) and/or the thread(s) to your oH >  newsreader's killfile, and/or you could complain to the poster's ISP.E >  If the poster(s) are spamming multiple newsgroups, you could bring G >  this to the attention of the folks that run the spam cancelbots via  B >  the appropriate "abuse" newsgroups: see news.admin.net-abuse.*. > G >  Though it will not completely eliminate the spam, it is possible to  C >  move to a moderated newsgroup forum.  Alternatively, an OpenVMS tG >  forum could be moved to a more controlled members-only mechanism --  G >  this approach is obviously yet more effective at avoiding off-topic   >  messages. >eE >  Like many other folks that read newsgroups, I do make regular use rA >  of my newsreader's killfile mechanism.  (Various email clientsmC >  offer varying degrees of filtering capabilities, for those folkse= >  that read the comp.os.vms postings via the INFO-VAX list.)i >h   Thanks for responding.  3 I didn't know if it was moderated or not, but aftern0 I forward the messages to the appropriate domain3 postmaster I'll put the offender in my ignore list.m   David R. Beattys   >oO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------iM >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:02:59 GMTu2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)A Subject: Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffmani0 Message-ID: <TJZH6.66$lP5.1403@news.cpqcorp.net>  j In article <Xl=wOqC9yrPOvJpVFbn2OczQ4g5j@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:  E :I didn't know if [the comp.os.vms newsgroup] was moderated or not...t  M   You can see the newsgroup moderator information in the nntpd headers -- if aM   the group is moderated, though I have no idea how (or if) this information uL   is visible in your "Forte Agent 1.6/32.525" newsreader tool.  Look for theJ   nntpd "Approved" entry in the headers -- as an example, the OpenVMS FAQ K   contains the "Approved" line as it is cross-posted over into a moderated t   newsgroup.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 00:39:42 GMTr/ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)lA Subject: Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffmano2 Message-ID: <3af0a899.136152648@news.telocity.com>  0 On Wed, 02 May 2001 15:26:05 -0400, David Beatty) <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:i >iB >I will -- as soon as I can figure out how to get Agent to display >them! >  >>@ If it is the same as Free Agent, press the H key and the headers appear at the top.   Stevev Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAs StevenU@POBoxes.com"   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2001 18:59:46 CDT = From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162 (Wayne Sewell)aA Subject: Re: Spam, eggs, bacon, spam, spam ... attn: Hoff Hoffmanl. Message-ID: <Dt3tlzr66+KD@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  j In article <zvzvOqyPsEoCMcE1USUQufKlBV3Z@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes: >     Hoff,o > A >     It looks like comp.os.vms (among other newsgroups) is being>= > spammed by tariq@nsquare.com.  I don't know if this is yourmB > correct e-mail address, so I'm posting to the newsgroup as well.    N And keeping the newsgroup free of spam is his responsibility?   You can handleL the problem as well as he can, by taking it up with the isp of the spammer. : They're the only ones who can do anything about it anyway.     -- dO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== B Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?"+ Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 18:52:42 GMTs1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>r# Subject: Re: SRM paramters from VMSo2 Message-ID: <3AF0577E.A344A0D4@clarityconnect.com>   Some of them, yes.    0 Crashr> write sys$output f$getenv("auto_action") RESTARTu     Tom Linden wrote:t > > > Is it possible to read the values of SRM variables from VMS?   -- !D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 19:43:32 GMTk2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: SRM paramters from VMSt0 Message-ID: <ErZH6.65$lP5.1034@news.cpqcorp.net>  ] In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEOGCHAA.tom@kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:-= :Is it possible to read the values of SRM variables from VMS?m  B   A subset of the SRM console environment variables are accessableD   via sys$getenv and via f$getenv.  These calls have been around andD   unchanged for a very long time, but were only recently documented.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:44:24 -0500m1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e: Subject: Re: Test!  Please post a response if you see this' Message-ID: <3AF08DC8.FDA6C4C4@fsi.net>p   Laughingbear wrote:e > --J > What exactly is so 'Open' about 'OpenVMS'?   Linux users want to know... > --  3 What exactly is so "open" about "'open' systems"?  n8 VMS(/RSTS/RSX/OS400/MVS/PICK/etc.) users want to know...   --   David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:01:42 GMTs/ From: "Alexandre SOUF" <alexandre.souf@free.fr>r4 Subject: Re: VAX Just Stops - Not the Usual Suspects3 Message-ID: <WA_H6.127$SC6.483389@nnrp4.proxad.net>    Hello,  J my contribution to your guess ; in fact this question may be a best of VMS unqualified bugs...   C This kind of thing happened to me under the following circumstancese  7 1) anonymous FTP session with multinet 4.1 over VMS 6.2s 2) SCSI hungs,> 3) people working around (cleaning or testing power supply...)  
 Best regards,R  7 Alexandre SOUF - Consultant Indpendant en Informatique1= mail: alexandre.souf@free.fr    http://alexandre.souf.free.fr L Tl. +33 3 59 12 22 52 /  Mobile +33 6 62 56 79 80     /     Fax +33 3 20 07 22 52m  = Rob Buxton <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> a crit dans le message :v% 3aef48ad.68733583@news.wcc.govt.nz...  > Hi Chaps,a >mE > Config is a MV3100-90 running VMS 7.2, TCP 5.1, all Level 1 Patches E > plus a few others. Clustered with a small Alpha on 7.2-1, TCP 5.1 &aB > similar status of Patches. VAX has the only vote and serves data# > (including UAF etc) to the Alpha.n$ > Config has been running for yonks!C > Most VAX Disks internal with one on a BA, that's the System Disk.o >NF > A few days ago the VAX just stopped and has repeated this four times > now. reboot cures it.u< > It's not crashed, doesn't get to >>>, doesn't memory dump. > No hardware errors logged.6 > Nothing in Operator.Log, Memory Page files are fine.C > It seems to be random and, last night, was when it was doing verye	 > little.l >nF > If the Console was not logged in at the time, any attempt to type isH > greeted with a bleep. If logged in, nothing although a ^C generated an > *INTERRUPT* on the screen. >eD > We run DECAMDS but the node just disappears from that. So, I can't > "FIX" anything via DECAMDS.  >tF > We have MVTIMEOUT set to 3600 on the Alpha, interestingly the servedC > disks seem to go into Mount Verify Timeout straight away? Haven't1B > fully confirmed this behaviour as yet. Generally the Alpha needs > rebooting as well. >-% > The only odd message I've seen was: @ > arp, Illegal IRP address used by Hardware Address 00-80-64-15! >>@ > Alas, it was to the Alpha Screen and got shortened. I've sinceE > re-enabled the Operator.Log on the Alpha to try and see if anything D > else turns up there. No idea where the Hardware  comes from and itF > doesn't seem to match any known H/W Addresses. Checked the Interface: > configs but they seem okay and haven't changed recently. >-H > Most recent product on the System is ECP, but it did "stop" when I had > the collection disabled. >A9 > So, anyone any clues, 'cause I am running out of ideas.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 17:12:58 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o. Subject: Re: VMS Loyalist dies from starvation0 Message-ID: <LL_H6.76$lP5.1430@news.cpqcorp.net>  B andrew harrison wrote in message <3AE95DC3.29BC330C@uk.sun.com>...   snip  7 >It also raises the question of how usefull COE will be  >to OpenVMS. >a > snip    G COE will be useful because there are many, many primes with DOD projectnK bids, that are falling all over themselves to *NOT* use Sun and to use VMS.l+ COE certification on VMS unlocks the gates.i  F The fact that it means we have to emulate a Solaris system sucks.  But that's life in the big city.  2 Everything else about COE is just gravy...  but...  H Besides, pinhead, UNIX-is-UNIX-is-UNIX (at least at the source level) --L isn't that the snake oil you've been selling?   So if you imagine a day whenD VMS is UNIX98 compliant (or even better LINUX compliant), and has anE alternative "UNIX shell" interface.  Why should a port to it be *any* @ different than that between a HP, a Sun, a IBM, and a Tru64 box?   None.  Nada.  Zip.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 23:28:00 +0100& From: "Tobias Russell" <toby@taer.com>* Subject: Wanted: VAX or microVax in the UK< Message-ID: <_y%H6.597$0n1.14027@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>   Hi,n  K I'm looking to add a Vax to my collection of PDP11 machines I've assembled.eG Does anyone have a machine in the UK that they might be tempted to parto with?Y   Cheers,m Toby   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:03:17 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i; Subject: Re: What Oracle Database is supported by Open VMS? ' Message-ID: <3AF08425.5AF7E4A8@fsi.net>    Alan Greig wrote:4 >  > Yi Jiang wrote:e > M > > Just try to find some information on Oracle website about Oracle DatabaselM > > for Open VMS. It seems that I cannot find any clue indicating support fortO > > Oracle Database on Open VMS. I am sure that Oracle Database is available ons' > > vms somewhere, maybe older version.n > >e > N > Now this is strange. I was going to answer platforms.oracle.com/compaq gives@ > you all the information but I just tried and got redirected to) > partner.oracle.com with no explanation.  > P > Ok let's do a search for OpenVMS I thought... But no that just brought up hitsQ > for RDB. What's going on? Have Oracle messed up their web site? If not then whyoA > remove virtually all the information relating to Oracle on VMS?t  E Maybe it was a virus that caused the Compaq web-site degeneration and  maybe it's contagious??!!n   Oh, my!l   -- n David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/O  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:50:35 -0400.- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>n> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%( Message-ID: <3AF048EB.1B2530C5@ohio.edu>  E 1.    If you believe in evolution of species, then you believe that av pre-chicken laid a mutant eggi:         that hatched a chicken.  Thus, the egg came first.  6 2.    A chicken is an egg's way of reproducing itself.  I {Neither idea is original with myself, but I don't remember where I firsts enountered them.}d  #                                 RDPr    ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:   J > And hence questions like which came first, the chicken or the paradox, I > mean egg.  > :-)t >m > Bob Koehler wrote/quoted : > >>>s7 > In article <3AED6DDA.532F265D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeii( > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:M > > who created the universe ?  (I am not talking about the big bang, but the0D > > universe as a whole which may have had many big bangs in various
 > locations).m >pG > Why does there have to be a who?  If there is a who, then who createdu > him (her)? > <<<    --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:13:44 -0400  From: William_Bochnik@acml.com> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%> Message-ID: <OF3BD9D50B.7564CA7D-ON85256A40.00641963@acml.com>  - 1 - yes the pre-chicken was called a dinosaur-            F ______________________________________________________________________    : The information contained in this transmission may contain< privileged and confidential information and is intended only< for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the< intended recipient,  or an employee or agent responsible for? delivering this message to the intended recipient,  any review, @ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication> is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,A please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroyh# all copies of the original message.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:51:34 -0500I' From: Thomas G Wirt <twirt@kittles.com>u> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <3AF05735.A627FA06@kittles.com>y  H I could not understand how any of this applied to VMS, then I remembered@ that VMS is the OS on which God runs the simulation known as the	 universe.    Thomas Wirtf   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2001 19:47:33 GMTt# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.eduy> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <9cpo8l$lp0$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>m  # Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:f  C >Scientology, for example, has no god as such. Their core teachingsa >come from a human.t  ; You obviously haven't been cleared (tm) for The Truth (tm).-   Peace, Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:23:16 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comm> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%D Message-ID: <OFE9AE3812.961672F1-ON88256A40.007546A9@foundation.com>  J Heh, check out www.xenu.com, if you're at all serious about that response.C Although admittedly L.Ron doesn't claim to have started it all, thetI underlying story is about aliens rather than gods. I probably should have  been more specific.y   Shane           7 system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu on 05/02/2001 12:47:33 PMo  / Please respond to system@niuhep.physics.niu.edus   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- cc:t  ? Subject:  Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%s    # Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:u  C >Scientology, for example, has no god as such. Their core teachingse >come from a human.y  ; You obviously haven't been cleared (tm) for The Truth (tm).    Peace, Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:37:08 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%' Message-ID: <3AF08C14.1CF6DD5B@fsi.net>l   Mihali Felipe wrote: > 8 > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: >  > > O > > Oh, so the morals I've always lived with are some kind of illusion, becauseuJ > > an atheist can't have any? Get /over/ yourself, and stop insulting me. > J > Your morals and another person's is necessarily different, i.e. they areK > relative. Whether you are insulted by that fact or not is not something I G > can do anything about. There can be no meaningful talk about absolutes > morality without God.s  F First, let me apologize to the group for making comments which spawned this off-topic aside.w  H Second, let me apologize to the group for contributing to its longevity.   That said, I must inquire:  A Is "God" necessary in order for the concept to exist where in the 1 harming of one person by another becomes immoral?f  A ...or is it the definition of the word "harming" that becomes the-  beginning of the "can of worms"?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/6  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 03:09:39 GMTh. From: "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com>> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%< Message-ID: <TZ3I6.52363$U4.12312432@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>  0 <system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote in message% news:9cp3mb$dod$2@husk.cso.niu.edu...d :t > >Christians are a small-L > >percentage of the religions on this planet (~30% last time I checked).  IG > >agree with the rest of your post, but I don't think the conversation  shouldL > >be directed at just one sect, even if Christians seem to be the ones mostA > >likely to try to force their beliefs on others (i.e., "convertn heathens").. >a/ > If you want to see force go visit Afganistan.4 >e. > No, the Taliban is *not* typical of Islam...  E Ah, I wasn't trying to pick on Christians, and there I go and pick onw them...  Sorry for that.  I As you also said, though, there are exceptions, and the Taliban is a goodeC one, just as there are exceptions in Christianity.  I was trying tovJ reference the relative policies vis a vis other religions, e.g., Buddhism,L whose general policy is NOT to convert, whereas Christians seem to relish inJ sending missionaries to other countries, handing out food and goods in oneK hand while bringing their religious teachings in the other*.  I should haveo4 been more explicit.  Or should I say, less explicit.  K * Don't get me wrong, I am strongly in favor of organizations, religious or G otherwise, that helps less fortunates, especially if it is done with nop strings attached.a   Best,I Aaronk --> Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html> Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org// "24x7x365?  What's so special about 365 weeks?"b   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 03:27:17 GMTy. From: "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com>> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%< Message-ID: <pe4I6.52418$U4.12327860@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>  : David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3AF08C14.1CF6DD5B@fsi.net...n :a > That said, I must inquire: >nC > Is "God" necessary in order for the concept to exist where in the=3 > harming of one person by another becomes immoral?=  G Fortunately not.  An excellent (albeit sometimes inflammatory) treatiseo/ entitled "Ethics Without Gods" is available at:r  ,  http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/ethics.html  E It would be a horrible world if only people with religion had morals.cC Morality, according to this text, is a natural state of human being4 independent of religion.   Aaron  --> Aaron Sakovich  http://members.home.net/sakovich/alphaman.html> Make April 15 just another day:        http://www.fairtax.org// "24x7x365?  What's so special about 365 weeks?"	   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2001 03:27:50 GMTj# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edui> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <9cqj7m$2l0$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>-  0 "Alphaman" <alphaman64@nixspam-home.com> writes:1 ><system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote in messageH  F >Ah, I wasn't trying to pick on Christians, and there I go and pick on >them...  Sorry for that.    apology accepted.N   >Christians seem to relish inoK >sending missionaries to other countries, handing out food and goods in oneo= >hand while bringing their religious teachings in the other*.i  H Which, from my perspective, is different from "forcing one's beliefs"...  E Especially since I was recently engaged in a discussion of times whenl the Church /did/ use force.-  E It's not a matter of relishing doing those things, both of those are -3 fairly high up on the priority list for Christians.   L >* Don't get me wrong, I am strongly in favor of organizations, religious orH >otherwise, that helps less fortunates, especially if it is done with no >strings attached.  B As usual Christianity is not a monolith.  Many churches have takenB a far less agressive attitude toward missionary work abroad, thoseH generally provide help and let people know who they are but either leaveH it up to the people to make the approach, or take a one-on-one non-pushy	 approach.n   Robert   ------------------------------   Date: 3 May 2001 03:49:21 GMT"# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu(> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: 80% is Good Enough for M$. Now it's 100%+ Message-ID: <9cqkg1$2l0$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>w  3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >Mihali Felipe wrote:p9 >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:d  P >> > Oh, so the morals I've always lived with are some kind of illusion, becauseK >> > an atheist can't have any? Get /over/ yourself, and stop insulting me.d >> aK >> Your morals and another person's is necessarily different, i.e. they are-L >> relative. Whether you are insulted by that fact or not is not something IH >> can do anything about. There can be no meaningful talk about absolute >> morality without God. >1G >First, let me apologize to the group for making comments which spawneds >this off-topic aside. >aI >Second, let me apologize to the group for contributing to its longevity.m >n >That said, I must inquire:e > B >Is "God" necessary in order for the concept to exist where in the2 >harming of one person by another becomes immoral?  @ Mihali can speak for himself, but I don't think my understanding$ is drastically different from his...  B Anybody can define anything as moral or immoral.  From an externalC perspective each person's morality is as good as the next person's,m@ i.e. the morality of an action is relative to who is judging it.  E Bob Kohler (sp?) espoused an intriguing idea that the universe itself F can be the determiner of morality... I suppose that is the idea behind	 karma... t  F Unless I have missed or forgotten something, my position differs from L Mihali's in that I think that you can use any absolute,authoritative source A of morality,as opposed to only God, to discuss absolute morality.h  D I *believe* God /is/ the one and only absolute,authoritative source,G but I can't prove that so I can't see trying to restrict the discussiont to him.a  B >...or is it the definition of the word "harming" that becomes the! >beginning of the "can of worms"?M   Of course it is :-)n  C When discussing an another adult in full possession of their mentaleA faculties, purposefully harming that person against that person'snD will, ... ouch... I'm too tired to do a comprehensive job, includingJ the ideas of preventing harming somebody else and or punishment and or ...  I and as you say one has to define harm, monetary harm, temporal harm (e.g.C jailing the person) ...I  K I think I better leave before I get into an argument with the libertarians.t   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2001 19:42:11 GMTe# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edut Subject: Re: [OT] Religion+ Message-ID: <9cpnuj$lp0$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>I  / Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:> >Charles Sebold wrote:$ >> On 8 Iyar 5761, Alan Greig wrote: >>I >> > Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I F >> > have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share thatI >> > knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defendgE >> > the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them thatr< >> > Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. >> >K >> > I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other specifics* >> > Biblical laws and how to follow them. >e@ >he he Alan, playing "wind up the religious nuts" are we :-) :-)  B Care to indicate why you feel that Mr. Sebold's response earns him the label "religious nut"?  G or are you just being sloppy in your failure to edit attribution lines?k   Robert Morphis   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2001 21:18:22 GMT % From: afeldman@elsewhere.gfigroup.comsI Subject: Re: [Q] DCL minute of the day: sys$specific & sys$common (again)f* Message-ID: <9cptiu$mtl$1@news.netmar.com>  ' Posted in comp.os.vms by Didier Morandiu   >Message 8 in thread  " >From: Didier Morandi (DMo@ims.ch)K >Subject: Re: [Q] DCL minute of the day: sys$specific & sys$common (again) s >Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >Date: 2001-04-24 23:35:09 PST N >i >Are you a teacher, Alan? ! >Thanks for the nice explanation.e >a >D.  >u' >afeldman@elsewhere.gfigroup.com wrote:a >> nK >> First of all, I think it's better to think in terms of equivalence namesn as& >> being concealed, not logical names. >../..  E No sir, I am not a teacher. Just glad to help out. But thanks for the  compliment.       O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  ----- M   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups I    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts L made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.246 ************************