1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 18 May 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 274       Contents: Re: 7.3 kits RE: Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD? P Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normal successful comP Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normalsuccessful compP Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normalsuccessful compP Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normalsuccessful comp. cancel <C3$qu4NUv3oI@eisner.encompasserve.org>+ Re: Changing default gateway of IP protocol + Re: Changing default gateway of IP protocol & Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issues& Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issues& Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issues& Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issues& Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issues& Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issues Extending timeouts in DECNet  Re: Extending timeouts in DECNet Re: Free Alphaserver to use... Re: Free Alphaserver to use... From seconds to delta-time Re: From seconds to delta-time Re: From seconds to delta-time Re: From seconds to delta-time Re: ftp program in OpenVMS Re: ftp program in OpenVMS  Re: Infoserver 1000 does'nt boot: INIT/QUEUE?AUTOSTART_On incompatible with TCPIP$TELNETSYM?> Re: INIT/QUEUE?AUTOSTART_On incompatible with TCPIP$TELNETSYM?$ looking for ssh on Alpha/OpenVMS 7.1, Re: Managing hosts databases with TCPIP V5.x, Re: Managing hosts databases with TCPIP V5.x Re: Memo:  Multimedia Doc  Re: Monitor System Re: Monitor System Re: Mozilla 0.9  Re: Mozilla 0.9  Re: Mozilla 0.9 0 Re: Mozilla 0.9 how do I save email attachments. Re: Opera browser  Re: Opera browser  Re: Opera browser  Re: Opera browser  Page- and swapfile cleanup Re: Page- and swapfile cleanup Re: Page- and swapfile cleanup Re: Page- and swapfile cleanup Re: Page- and swapfile cleanup Re: Page- and swapfile cleanup POSIX threads and word tearingI Re: Sort of off topic but: How do I find VMS information atwww.oracle.com P Re: Sort of off topic but: How do I find VMS information atwww.oracle.com atwww.
 sys$trnlnm Re: sys$trnlnm Re: sys$trnlnm Re: sys$trnlnm Re: sys$trnlnm Re: sys$trnlnm/ Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants / Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants / Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants / RE: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants  Unexpected NCP behavior  Re: Unexpected NCP behavior  Re: Unexpected NCP behavior  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  RE: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  RE: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym  Re: VAX Acronym E Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc E Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc E Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc E Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc E Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc E Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc   vms time -> unix time conversion$ Re: vms time -> unix time conversion" VXT2000 hardware/firmware question& Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question& Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question! re:  What is "legacy free system"   Re: What is "legacy free system"  Re: What is "legacy free system"  Re: What is "legacy free system"  Re: What is "legacy free system"  Re: What is "legacy free system"  Re: What is "legacy free system"  Re: What is "legacy free system"  Re: What is "legacy free system"  Re: What is "legacy free system", Re: What is "legacy free system" re: LK450's' Re: [PATHWORKS-32] What is the future ? ' Re: [PATHWORKS-32] What is the future ? ' Re: [PATHWORKS-32] What is the future ? ' Re: [PATHWORKS-32] What is the future ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:42:49 +0000 (UTC) 2 From: Mike.Price@littlewoods.co.uk ("Price, Mike") Subject: Re: 7.3 kits Y Message-ID: <C068A5B3955E6C408A2EC2E3DEB6F889014C8840@SJMB001EX.retail.littlewoods.co.uk>   J No sign of it on the CD distribution in the UK yet either - we are eagerly
 awaiting it!!   ( anyone know when the expected date is???  K I have noticed there are no patches available on the web yet so we may wait ? and let someone else find the teething problem first anyway ;-)    Mike    G *********************************************************************** E Confidentiality: This e-mail and its attachments are intended for the < above named recipient(s) only and may be confidential and/orF privileged. If they have come to you in error you must take no action G based on them, nor must you copy or disclose them or any part of their  D contents to any person or organisation; please reply to this e-mail C and highlight the error immediately and delete this e-mail and its  & attachments from your computer system.  G Security Warning: Please note that this e-mail has been created in the  C knowledge that Internet e-mail is not a 100% secure communications  ? medium. We advise that you understand and observe this lack of   security  when e-mailing us.  E Viruses: Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and  C its attachments are free from any virus, we advise that in keeping  C with  good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are   actually  virus freeG ***********************************************************************    --  5 Posted from smtp3.littlewoods.co.uk [194.60.125.242]  1 via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:04:33 +0100  From: Darran.Burt@ubsw.com Subject: RE: Re: 7.3 kits H Message-ID: <H000031703e00ceb.0990176671.ln4d249p.ldn.swissbank.com@MHS>  D We have our V7.3 distribution kit here! :-)  Rather nifty CD wallet  too...   Darran.    -----Original Message----- From: Mike.Price   Sent: 18 May 2001 08:43  To: Info-VAX Cc: Mike.Price Subject: Re: 7.3 kits     C No sign of it on the CD distribution in the UK yet either - we are   eagerly 
 awaiting it!!   ( anyone know when the expected date is???  C I have noticed there are no patches available on the web yet so we   may wait? and let someone else find the teething problem first anyway ;-)    Mike    F ********************************************************************** * E Confidentiality: This e-mail and its attachments are intended for the < above named recipient(s) only and may be confidential and/orF privileged. If they have come to you in error you must take no action A based on them, nor must you copy or disclose them or any part of   their D contents to any person or organisation; please reply to this e-mail C and highlight the error immediately and delete this e-mail and its  & attachments from your computer system.  C Security Warning: Please note that this e-mail has been created in   the C knowledge that Internet e-mail is not a 100% secure communications  ? medium. We advise that you understand and observe this lack of   security  when e-mailing us.  E Viruses: Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and  C its attachments are free from any virus, we advise that in keeping  C with  good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are   actually  virus freeF ********************************************************************** *    --  5 Posted from smtp3.littlewoods.co.uk [194.60.125.242]  1 via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG     . Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com  D This message contains confidential information and is intended only B for the individual named.  If you are not the named addressee you @ should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  Please B notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this : e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.  D E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free A as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,  E arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses.  The sender therefore  F does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents D of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  If C verification is required please request a hard-copy version.  This  A message is provided for informational purposes and should not be  F construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or  related financial instruments.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:40:49 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: 7.3 kits 8 Message-ID: <d0r9gtk278fq607qvj5sthv0mpq1r6oev7@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 18 May 2001 07:42:49 +0000 (UTC), Mike.Price@littlewoods.co.uk ("Price, Mike") wrote:  K >No sign of it on the CD distribution in the UK yet either - we are eagerly  >awaiting it!!   Mike,   A A number of UK sites have received it. Still haven't got mine yet  though.     ) >anyone know when the expected date is???  > L >I have noticed there are no patches available on the web yet so we may wait@ >and let someone else find the teething problem first anyway ;-) >  >Mike  >  > H >***********************************************************************F >Confidentiality: This e-mail and its attachments are intended for the= >above named recipient(s) only and may be confidential and/or G >privileged. If they have come to you in error you must take no action  H >based on them, nor must you copy or disclose them or any part of their E >contents to any person or organisation; please reply to this e-mail  D >and highlight the error immediately and delete this e-mail and its ' >attachments from your computer system.  > H >Security Warning: Please note that this e-mail has been created in the D >knowledge that Internet e-mail is not a 100% secure communications @ >medium. We advise that you understand and observe this lack of  >security  when e-mailing us.  > F >Viruses: Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and D >its attachments are free from any virus, we advise that in keeping D >with  good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are  >actually  virus free H >***********************************************************************   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:07:55 +0100 , From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m> Subject: Re: 7.3 kits 1 Message-ID: <9e3dq3$5n5$1@uranium.btinternet.com>    Hi,   > I know  of at least one place in the UK that got it last week.   Regards Richard Maher.  = "Price, Mike" <Mike.Price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote in message L news:C068A5B3955E6C408A2EC2E3DEB6F889014C8840@SJMB001EX.retail.littlewoods.c o.uk... L > No sign of it on the CD distribution in the UK yet either - we are eagerly > awaiting it!!  > * > anyone know when the expected date is??? > H > I have noticed there are no patches available on the web yet so we may waitA > and let someone else find the teething problem first anyway ;-)  >  > Mike >  > I > *********************************************************************** G > Confidentiality: This e-mail and its attachments are intended for the > > above named recipient(s) only and may be confidential and/orG > privileged. If they have come to you in error you must take no action H > based on them, nor must you copy or disclose them or any part of theirE > contents to any person or organisation; please reply to this e-mail D > and highlight the error immediately and delete this e-mail and its( > attachments from your computer system. > H > Security Warning: Please note that this e-mail has been created in theD > knowledge that Internet e-mail is not a 100% secure communications@ > medium. We advise that you understand and observe this lack of > security  when e-mailing us. > F > Viruses: Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail andD > its attachments are free from any virus, we advise that in keepingD > with  good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are > actually  virus freeI > ***********************************************************************  >  > --6 > Posted from smtp3.littlewoods.co.uk [194.60.125.242]3 > via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 09:12:42 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis)  Subject: Re: Backup to CD?! Message-ID: <5VUP7t1DoXIm@ludens>   ] In article <01K3O69KQGMS8ZLAQR@dairyworld.com>, Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@dairyworld.com> writes: ! > I've been wondering about this. ? > Is it possible to do a VMS backup to CD(-RW) instead of tape?    Yes      >  > Is it supported?   No, it not supported.      > Is anyone doing it?     G 1, create a 600 Mb virtual disk (for example vdd from freeware archive) 1    initialize and mount it, put an archive to it.  2, burn this file to CD.     more info: OpenVMS FAQ: FILE7   V The FAQ: (In this newsgroup and) http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html      4 http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/vms.html@ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cdrom/cd-recordable/part1/preamble.html http://www.tmesis.com/CDrom/$ http://www.djesys.com/vms/cdrom.html? http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/9999/vmscdwri.html  http://www.tditx.com/~odsiso/   * > What are the advantages / disadvantages?    The CD is NOT a backup solution. - Small. (only 600-650 Mbytes), - No ones known really how long is its life.9 - too expensive (of course only one CD media is cheap but :   80Gbyte CD-RW media is more expensive than one AIT tape)     > Ingemar Olson      Regards, Adam Maulis    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:16:22 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Backup to CD?) Message-ID: <3B052EB6.E1A92CE7@bbc.co.uk>    Adam Maulis wrote:  _ > In article <01K3O69KQGMS8ZLAQR@dairyworld.com>, Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@dairyworld.com> writes: # > > I've been wondering about this. A > > Is it possible to do a VMS backup to CD(-RW) instead of tape?  >  > Yes  >   X Possibly so, but the solution you provide does not use VMS Backup, with its mulit-volumeN handling capabilites, CRC checking etc, so you have not proved your assertion.   >  > >  > > Is it supported? >  > No, it not supported.  >  > > Is anyone doing it?  > I > 1, create a 600 Mb virtual disk (for example vdd from freeware archive) 3 >    initialize and mount it, put an archive to it.  > 2, burn this file to CD. >  > more info: OpenVMS FAQ: FILE7        --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:44:50 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com  Subject: Re: Backup to CD?D Message-ID: <OF9B1D1829.7B1B44D8-ON88256A50.00605039@foundation.com>  H Don't know how to get it to do multi-volume, but the given example wouldK work for 700mb savesets. I'd say that's a partial solution at least. Now if E someone could do some kind of driver that pretended the CD was a tape K drive, now that would be interesting. Especially since my AS200 at home has 2 no tape, but I do have an external SCSI CD burner.   Shane           A Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> on 05/18/2001 07:16:22 AM   9 Please respond to Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>    To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:    Subject:  Re: Backup to CD?          Adam Maulis wrote:  ? > In article <01K3O69KQGMS8ZLAQR@dairyworld.com>, Ingemar Olson  <IOLSON@dairyworld.com> writes: # > > I've been wondering about this. A > > Is it possible to do a VMS backup to CD(-RW) instead of tape?  >  > Yes  >   K Possibly so, but the solution you provide does not use VMS Backup, with its  mulit-volumeC handling capabilites, CRC checking etc, so you have not proved your 
 assertion.   >  > >  > > Is it supported? >  > No, it not supported.  >  > > Is anyone doing it?  > I > 1, create a 600 Mb virtual disk (for example vdd from freeware archive)N3 >    initialize and mount it, put an archive to it.  > 2, burn this file to CD. >e > more info: OpenVMS FAQ: FILE7        --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uks  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:15:39 -0400w% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>oY Subject: Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normal successful como/ Message-ID: <tgabk5m017bc1a@news.supernews.com>   - <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in messagep. news:C2256A4F.00744AC3.00@jklh21.valmet.com... > @ > I just had a batch job end "normally" on "$WAIT 00:05:00" with0 > %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completionH > in accounting entry.  The log file shows it was closed (modified) less thanI > a minute into the job, and the create and modify times on it are insidem thenK > Start time and Finish time in the accounting entry by a few hundredths ofi a  >       second.tL > In short, it looks like the WAIT-statement was taken as an EXIT-statement. >v8 > This is OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 on AS1200/533 in cluster. >tG > Neither I nor support knows where to start on this one.  Any insightsE welcome. >k  F Did someone kill the job with STOP/ID=pid?  That will make a batch job; complete successfully although the exit status isn't always L %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL.  I'm not sure you can predict what the exit status will be% but it always seems to be successful.o  D Hopefully, someone from OpenVMS engineering can comment on this bug.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:02:15 -0400n  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comY Subject: Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normalsuccessful compe4 Message-ID: <C2256A50.004C3436.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  J Thanks to all who responded.  This seems right now to have been a one-time event, so I'm trying to get aoH handle on what would cause such a termination with a normal status.  The# question at the end of this is most  provocative, though.      | [=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+  ' -> Please respond to univms@bigfoot.com    -> To:    Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comv ->K -> If you post the last 15 lines of the batch job, there might be somethingN therev) that we can see to diagnose this problem.e -> -> HMy ->  L This batch has been running 5 days a week for over a year.  The last edit on thisE particular incarnation was, "Revised:   14-NOV-2000 17:05:43.11 (2)".yN So I don't think it's the code.  By the way, did you mean the last 15 lines of the J procedure file or of the log file, and did you mean the last 15 lines that executed1 or the last 15 lines at the end of the procedure?d  $ -> norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote: ->C -> > I just had a batch job end "normally" on "$WAIT 00:05:00" withn3 -> > %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completioniP -> > in accounting entry.  The log file shows it was closed (modified) less thanP -> > a minute into the job, and the create and modify times on it are inside theP -> > Start time and Finish time in the accounting entry by a few hundredths of a -> >       second.O -> > In short, it looks like the WAIT-statement was taken as an EXIT-statement.i -> >; -> > This is OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 on AS1200/533 in cluster.i -> >J -> > Neither I nor support knows where to start on this one.  Any insights welcome.    | [=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+      * -> Please respond to djesys.nospam@fsi.net   -> Rob Buxton wrote: -> ># -> > Definately an interesting one.3 -> >I -> > You don't run DECamds and someone "fixed" the process by killing the- -> > image?-K -> > I've not tried this but it might terminate the Wait image, the command4# -> > procedure would then continue.l -> >8 -> > What else does the com procedure do after the wait? -> > -> > Just guessing.....F -> -> $ verb/out=wait.cld waitl -> $ ty wait.cld -> define verb WAITC4 ->    cliroutine WAIT, cliflags(nostatus, immediate) ->5 -> WAIT is an "internal" command - no external image.  ->. -> I'd try SET VERIFY and SET PREFIX "(!%D) ". ->  P This would give more information the next time it fails, but I expect that if itK failed once in 5x52 = 260 invocations, and that if I alter it, it I will be* tryingN to measure a different case, that altering it will give no good information as to8 what happened.  Now if it fails again this afternoon....P (I edited it to skip until after the wait, of course, and resubmitted it, and itM ran to completion without problems, further evidence that it's not the code.)e   -> --r -> David J. Dachtera -> dba DJE Systems -> http://www.djesys.com/e ->    | [=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+    1 -> Please respond to jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.cai ->P -> Is it possible your system clock was adjusted forwards by a few minutes while& -> the job was in the WAIT statement ? ->  K Now that's an intrieging question.  Actually the system clock on one of thet VAXes inO this cluster has begun loosing time, and it was adjusted forwards a few minutesa abouthN four hours before this batch began execution, but that system was not directly involved with this batch.  O How would setting a system clock forwards cause a wait statement to behave like4 an exit 
 statement?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:49:24 -0400e  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comY Subject: Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normalsuccessful comp04 Message-ID: <C2256A50.005085F6.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  O I have not tested, but the CSC says (paraphrasing) that if the job was "killed"- it would have a Job aborted N status not a normal status.  If in fact the status "can be" normal, then it is& of course wildly possible that someoneP did a stop/id and misstyped the id and will now never fess up.  Seems  unlikely, but one never knows.3 So is it possible for a stop/id to log this status?v        ( John@mvpsi.com on 05/18/2001 10:15:39 AM    Please respond to John@mvpsi.com   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:*K Subject:  Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normald/       successful completion in accounting entryt        - <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in messagee. news:C2256A4F.00744AC3.00@jklh21.valmet.com... > @ > I just had a batch job end "normally" on "$WAIT 00:05:00" with0 > %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completionH > in accounting entry.  The log file shows it was closed (modified) less thanI > a minute into the job, and the create and modify times on it are insider theuK > Start time and Finish time in the accounting entry by a few hundredths of  aa >       second.nL > In short, it looks like the WAIT-statement was taken as an EXIT-statement. >v8 > This is OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 on AS1200/533 in cluster. > G > Neither I nor support knows where to start on this one.  Any insightst welcome. >a  F Did someone kill the job with STOP/ID=pid?  That will make a batch job; complete successfully although the exit status isn't alwayshL %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL.  I'm not sure you can predict what the exit status will be% but it always seems to be successful.o  D Hopefully, someone from OpenVMS engineering can comment on this bug.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:38:35 -0400r( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>Y Subject: Re: Batch job on WAIT statement dies with %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL,normalsuccessful comp + Message-ID: <3B05500B.CB4329BC@bigfoot.com>i   Last 15 lines of the log file.   Hamlyn  ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:u  L > Thanks to all who responded.  This seems right now to have been a one-time > event, so I'm trying to get a J > handle on what would cause such a termination with a normal status.  The% > question at the end of this is mostl > provocative, though. >i~ > [=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+ >r) > -> Please respond to univms@bigfoot.com  >e! > -> To:    Info-VAX@mvb.saic.coms > ->M > -> If you post the last 15 lines of the batch job, there might be somethingo > theree+ > that we can see to diagnose this problem.u > -> > -> HMe > -> >oN > This batch has been running 5 days a week for over a year.  The last edit on > thisG > particular incarnation was, "Revised:   14-NOV-2000 17:05:43.11 (2)".RP > So I don't think it's the code.  By the way, did you mean the last 15 lines of > the2L > procedure file or of the log file, and did you mean the last 15 lines that
 > executed3 > or the last 15 lines at the end of the procedure?w >r& > -> norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote: > ->E > -> > I just had a batch job end "normally" on "$WAIT 00:05:00" with 5 > -> > %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completionhR > -> > in accounting entry.  The log file shows it was closed (modified) less thanR > -> > a minute into the job, and the create and modify times on it are inside theR > -> > Start time and Finish time in the accounting entry by a few hundredths of a > -> >       second.Q > -> > In short, it looks like the WAIT-statement was taken as an EXIT-statement.i > -> >= > -> > This is OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 on AS1200/533 in cluster.e > -> >L > -> > Neither I nor support knows where to start on this one.  Any insights
 > welcome. >a~ > [=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+ >t, > -> Please respond to djesys.nospam@fsi.net >t > -> Rob Buxton wrote: > -> >% > -> > Definately an interesting one.l > -> >K > -> > You don't run DECamds and someone "fixed" the process by killing thea
 > -> > image?dM > -> > I've not tried this but it might terminate the Wait image, the commandu% > -> > procedure would then continue.h > -> >: > -> > What else does the com procedure do after the wait? > -> > > -> > Just guessing.....t > -> > -> $ verb/out=wait.cld waitu > -> $ ty wait.cld > -> define verb WAIT*6 > ->    cliroutine WAIT, cliflags(nostatus, immediate) > ->7 > -> WAIT is an "internal" command - no external image.e > ->0 > -> I'd try SET VERIFY and SET PREFIX "(!%D) ". > -> >rR > This would give more information the next time it fails, but I expect that if itM > failed once in 5x52 = 260 invocations, and that if I alter it, it I will be. > tryingP > to measure a different case, that altering it will give no good information as > to: > what happened.  Now if it fails again this afternoon....R > (I edited it to skip until after the wait, of course, and resubmitted it, and itO > ran to completion without problems, further evidence that it's not the code.)? >  > -> --e > -> David J. Dachtera > -> dba DJE Systems > -> http://www.djesys.com/n > -> >e~ > [=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+[=]+ >*3 > -> Please respond to jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.cai > ->R > -> Is it possible your system clock was adjusted forwards by a few minutes while( > -> the job was in the WAIT statement ? > -> >iM > Now that's an intrieging question.  Actually the system clock on one of thee
 > VAXes inQ > this cluster has begun loosing time, and it was adjusted forwards a few minutesi > about P > four hours before this batch began execution, but that system was not directly
 > involved > with this batch. >iQ > How would setting a system clock forwards cause a wait statement to behave likeI	 > an exita > statement?   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 13:25:04 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)g7 Subject: cancel <C3$qu4NUv3oI@eisner.encompasserve.org>r3 Message-ID: <n+0pAjzZzuuz@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  . cancel <C3$qu4NUv3oI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:54:44 +0200u$ From: "Paul B." <schizi@hotmail.com>4 Subject: Re: Changing default gateway of IP protocol% Message-ID: <3b04e36d$1@news.cvut.cz>    We use static routing.  2 I need to know if I have to restart IP or if I can& change default gateway free from fear.  	 Thank you2   Paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:38:42 +0200s= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>R4 Subject: Re: Changing default gateway of IP protocol5 Message-ID: <3B0517D2.6BC7ED3A@contrastmediagroep.nl>    "Paul B." wrote:  4 > I need to know if I have to restart IP or if I can( > change default gateway free from fear.  + There is no need to restart TCPIP for this.0   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:51:55 +0100c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> / Subject: Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issuesn8 Message-ID: <03s9gtsmdo3k1a0ncv2f2lgk59e9os88sc@4ax.com>  2 On Thu, 17 May 2001 14:30:39 -0400, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:w  L >I will be in a conference call on Wednesday to discuss issues I have raised: >here before about Compaq Analyze on VMS. I was wondering; >s1 >1. Who out there is using Compaq Analyze on VMS?/ >w >2. Are you happy with it? >aM >3. If not, and you have an ES40 or a DS20, then what do you use to read your. >error logs?   DECevent 3.1 for the momenty  C >4. Any thoughts on CADC or RCM (I have not tried either of these)?  >a  >5. Any thoughts on DSNLink 3.0?     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:13:23 -0400-- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> / Subject: Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issuese4 Message-ID: <t6aN6.239242$Z2.2622271@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:03s9gtsmdo3k1a0ncv2f2lgk59e9os88sc@4ax.com...J > >3. If not, and you have an ES40 or a DS20, then what do you use to read your > >error logs? >  > DECevent 3.1 for the momentC  L Does it not bother you that DECevent does not support the ES40 or DS20 (I doF not have any DECevent 3.1 documentation around anymore so maybe it didI support these boxes then, but the DECevent 3.3 documentation clearly does G not support the ES40)? We are told by Compaq that we have to use Compaq ' Analyze to properly read the error log.s   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2001 15:34:11 GMT# From: dQdelQlutrQX@XQXentQeract.comr/ Subject: Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issues + Message-ID: <9e3fdj$8ir$1@bob.news.rcn.net>a  P On Fri, 18 May 2001 10:13:23 -0400, Peter Weaver <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:03s9gtsmdo3k1a0ncv2f2lgk59e9os88sc@4ax.com...K >> >3. If not, and you have an ES40 or a DS20, then what do you use to read  > your >> >error logs?1 >> >> DECevent 3.1 for the momentN > Does it not bother you that DECevent does not support the ES40 or DS20 (I doH > not have any DECevent 3.1 documentation around anymore so maybe it didK > support these boxes then, but the DECevent 3.3 documentation clearly does I > not support the ES40)? We are told by Compaq that we have to use Compaqa) > Analyze to properly read the error log.t  F We, too, only have DECevent 3.1.  Yes, it does bother me that DECeventF does not fully support the ES40s (I have 6).  However, the last time IF looked at Compaq Analyse, it required about 5 system patch kits, each F of which had further dependencies on other patch kits.  I figured I'd B wait for 7.3 and hope that Compaq Analyse will install without new( patches on 7.3.  I'm on 7.2-1 right now.   -- o? Dale Dellutri -- dQdelQlutrQX@XQXentQeract.com (no Q's, no X's)'   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:48:13 +0100(% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> / Subject: Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issuesn8 Message-ID: <9qgagtguc0es6sofbehv550qu62h7ahed7@4ax.com>  2 On Fri, 18 May 2001 10:13:23 -0400, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:i  3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messagea3 >news:03s9gtsmdo3k1a0ncv2f2lgk59e9os88sc@4ax.com...sK >> >3. If not, and you have an ES40 or a DS20, then what do you use to read  >youri >> >error logs?b >> >> DECevent 3.1 for the moment >OM >Does it not bother you that DECevent does not support the ES40 or DS20 (I dooG >not have any DECevent 3.1 documentation around anymore so maybe it didyJ >support these boxes then, but the DECevent 3.3 documentation clearly doesH >not support the ES40)? We are told by Compaq that we have to use Compaq( >Analyze to properly read the error log.  C It was Compaq FS who installed DECevent 3.1 when they installed our:F ES40s. It is just possible I have the version wrong. The few occasionsE I have ever need to refer to the error log, decevent had provided theaD info I need. Not even sure a supported version of Compaq Analyze was& around back  at the launch of the ES40     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:46:46 -0400p- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>o/ Subject: Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issuese4 Message-ID: <imcN6.239314$Z2.2623264@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:9qgagtguc0es6sofbehv550qu62h7ahed7@4ax.com... >...E > It was Compaq FS who installed DECevent 3.1 when they installed our-H > ES40s. It is just possible I have the version wrong. The few occasions  L From what I understand (most/some/?? of ) the FS people hate CA as much as I do..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:45:45 -0400j- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>t/ Subject: Re: Compaq Analyze, WEBES, DSN  Issues 4 Message-ID: <klcN6.239313$Z2.2622706@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  0 <dQdelQlutrQX@XQXentQeract.com> wrote in message% news:9e3fdj$8ir$1@bob.news.rcn.net...n >...H > We, too, only have DECevent 3.1.  Yes, it does bother me that DECeventH > does not fully support the ES40s (I have 6).  However, the last time I >...  B I should have mentioned before, we are running DECevent 3.3 on ourL production ES40. We tried Compaq Analyze on our test ES40 Galaxy Cluster - I+ am not going to put CA on a production box.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:28:57 GMTh$ From: veryprivate@mailroom.com (Bob)% Subject: Extending timeouts in DECNeto: Message-ID: <Xns90A575C4AFD91gneissmailroom@63.210.103.21>  
 Hello all,  L We are running the latest DECNet in OpenVMS V7.2-1 on Alphas.  We'd like to J extend the FTP timeout, which is currently about 10 minutes, but just for M our local nodes inside the building, not for anyone accessing from outside.  hD It appears the setting is only global, which poses a security risk.   I Question: is it possible to make a local-only, or restricted FTP timeout t, setting, to affect only certain connnectons?   --Bob    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 13:32:33 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f) Subject: Re: Extending timeouts in DECNet 3 Message-ID: <PwZJYHyz+4sT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <Xns90A575C4AFD91gneissmailroom@63.210.103.21>, veryprivate@mailroom.com (Bob) writes:a > Hello all, > N > We are running the latest DECNet in OpenVMS V7.2-1 on Alphas.  We'd like to  > extend the FTP timeout  B DECnet does not include FTP.  FTP runs over TCP/IP, not DECnet.     H FAL is the approximately corresponding DECnet Phase IV tool, providing aF superset of FTP, and on some platforms accessed via tools named NFT orH DNA (after the DNA protocol FAL is built on).  The VMS file system knowsE FAL, so you don't need a separate tool.  DECnet Phase V also supports , the ISO/OSI tool (I think it's called FTAM).  G Which question did you intend to ask?  If you really want to extend the+G FTP timeout you'll have to let us know which TCP/IP stack you're using.=  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationi= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group"E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingh   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 12:46:12 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>t' Subject: Re: Free Alphaserver to use....H Message-ID: <y4k83f7x57.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  3 "Valdemir J. Santos" <valdemir-@uol.com.br> writes:)  H >   I'd like to know if is there any alphaserver to use in the internet.6 >   (creating an account and Logging in the system...)  % See http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/.l   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:20:34 -0500t1 From: Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net>t' Subject: Re: Free Alphaserver to use... 3 Message-ID: <3B04F772.33F5742B@mail.ourservers.net>g   >  > Hello all guys:I > H >   I'd like to know if is there any alphaserver to use in the internet.6 >   (creating an account and Logging in the system...)
 >   Thanks...e >   F For VAX, there is the "Hobbes The VAX" project that gives out accounts; on a VAXStation that they have set up.  You can get info at=   	http://www.hobbesthevax.com/+  F I also give out free accounts for personal hobbyist use on my personalE Alpha.  Just send an e-mail to "system@mail.ourservers.net" with your G e-mail address and full name requesting an account and you'll generallys- have your login information in a day or less.t   Hope this helps.   -- l  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 04:48:52 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f# Subject: From seconds to delta-time , Message-ID: <3B04E1F3.DDE9FDE4@videotron.ca>  L I have a value in seconds since 31-dec-1989. I need to transform this to vms binary time on a VAX.t  ? is there a mathematical way to generate the quadword on a vax ?r  G So far, I have done math to divide the seconds into days, hours minuteseK seconds, generated a VMS format string and then done $BINTIM to get it as asI delta time after which I cxan adjust it with the base time as well as anyw# timezone offset. Ugly but it works.A  G But surely there is a better way to generate the quadword ?  Or is that"+ something which a 32 bit machine can't do ?m  A Also, how many units of VMS binary time does 1 second represent ?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:39:46 +0100 2 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk>' Subject: Re: From seconds to delta-timey. Message-ID: <3B04FBF2.2977164F@CCAgroup.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:s > N > I have a value in seconds since 31-dec-1989. I need to transform this to vms > binary time on a VAX.  > A > is there a mathematical way to generate the quadword on a vax ?   G If you have the quadword for 31-dec-1989, use lib$add_times (a quadword @ add, with the sign checked & adjusted to do the right thing with absolute & delta times).  @ See also lib$addx & lib$emul for 64 bit (or greater) arithmetic.> Multiply seconds by -10000000 to get a delta time, or even use@ lib$cvt_to_internal_time(lib$k_delta_seconds, seconds, delta) !!  I > So far, I have done math to divide the seconds into days, hours minutesnM > seconds, generated a VMS format string and then done $BINTIM to get it as ahK > delta time after which I cxan adjust it with the base time as well as anyo% > timezone offset. Ugly but it works.l > I > But surely there is a better way to generate the quadword ?  Or is thatn- > something which a 32 bit machine can't do ?i > C > Also, how many units of VMS binary time does 1 second represent ?    10,000,000.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:18:49 +0100v, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m>' Subject: Re: From seconds to delta-time=3 Message-ID: <9e3eeg$r3b$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>+   Hi,   J A wild guess and without trying it you might try just adding the number ofK seconds between 17-Nov-1858 and 31-Dec-1989 to your total. (You'll probably G then have to multiply it by 10**7 or just move it to a S9(11)V9(7) COMP B field, if you are using a language that supports scaled integers.)   Regards Richard Maher.    8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B04E1F3.DDE9FDE4@videotron.ca...J > I have a value in seconds since 31-dec-1989. I need to transform this to vmsc > binary time on a VAX.f >,A > is there a mathematical way to generate the quadword on a vax ?  >lI > So far, I have done math to divide the seconds into days, hours minutestK > seconds, generated a VMS format string and then done $BINTIM to get it ast a K > delta time after which I cxan adjust it with the base time as well as anye% > timezone offset. Ugly but it works.  >dI > But surely there is a better way to generate the quadword ?  Or is thati- > something which a 32 bit machine can't do ?  >iC > Also, how many units of VMS binary time does 1 second represent ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:43:43 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>S' Subject: Re: From seconds to delta-time , Message-ID: <3B05513F.CB4DCD65@videotron.ca>   Chris Sharman wrote:B > See also lib$addx & lib$emul for 64 bit (or greater) arithmetic.@ > Multiply seconds by -10000000 to get a delta time, or even useB > lib$cvt_to_internal_time(lib$k_delta_seconds, seconds, delta) !!  I Thanks. That will most certaintly do the trick. I had never looked at theoG arguments for cvt_to_internal thinking it was just an rtl equivalent tos# $BINTIM.  But it does what I want !>  6 As a suggestion to the VMS help/documentation writers:  M The text for CVT_TO_INTERNAL should read "converts from various external timee/ formats into a VMS internal format delta time" >  B (it currently only read "converts from AN external time interval")  H By using plurial, it tells the user that there are various formats it is capable of handling.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:15:50 -0700 (PDT)y$ From: nclews <nclews at csc dot com># Subject: Re: ftp program in OpenVMSr1 Message-ID: <777.989871563295@iw1.mailusenet.com>   Y there are already decent implementation of FTP with source code under VMS without having   to resort to linux sources.,  W one major advantage you'll gain is that a VMS implementation can be taught to negotiate Z STRU O VMS so it'll bring over the full FDL and properly transfer the file attributes justM like a good old DECNET COPY. Otherwise you may have to figure out some way oft( converting automatically from stream-lf.  S Sources for MadgoatFTP are in BLISS, and the BLISS compiler is free, with VMS being+Z VMS your only issue will be writing the Motif front end and applying the appropriate hooksH in the code. It is not C but it'll compile with most popular IP packages  ! http://www.madgoat.com/mgftp.htmlo  ^ If you considered making it available, I think you'd get a bit of interest, but the STRU O VMS
 is a must!  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot co ----I Posted via http://www.etin.com - the FREE public USENET portal on the WebdF Complete SEARCHING, BROWSING, and POSTING of text and BINARY messages!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:35:25 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> # Subject: Re: ftp program in OpenVMSn" Message-ID: <3b054f5c@news.si.com>  " "ȼ" <syahn@icols.com> writes:  8 >I will develop ftp program in OpenVMS7.1-2 environment.  H Why???  There already are several that exist, including a great freeware one: Madgoat FTP.r --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventg< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:50:43 +0200 # From: "AbbNord" <hbomholt@epost.de>-) Subject: Re: Infoserver 1000 does'nt boot1/ Message-ID: <9e39bo$qju$01$1@news.t-online.com>p  H J.Reinwein schrieb in Nachricht <989999067.481178@hagakure.utanet.at>... >cD >This Infoserver-1000 (Model: SEADB-AS) does'nt boot any longer ....= >after power-on all 6 LED's on the frontside are flashing ...n( >and the console-term stays "black"  ... > H >Q:  who can give me hints for repair or knows any source about detailed >diagnose-manual >- >Thanks in advance ... >Josef Reinwein0 >c> we had the same problem, the ethnernet interface on the little< board inside was blown up. you can use parts from a desta or! decxm . or check the power-supply7   hartmut4   hbomholt@epost.deW   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:44:44 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>hC Subject: INIT/QUEUE?AUTOSTART_On incompatible with TCPIP$TELNETSYM? ) Message-ID: <3B05355C.67AD702F@bbc.co.uk>    Hi  A I've been trying and failing to init an /autostart_on queue usingS TCPIP$TELNETSYMy3 getting JBC-F-INVALPARVAL, invalid parameter value.r  E OK, I'll have to work around it. Is there a technical reason for thiso	 omission?    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukj  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of4 MedAS or the BBC.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:21:52 -0400s( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>G Subject: Re: INIT/QUEUE?AUTOSTART_On incompatible with TCPIP$TELNETSYM? * Message-ID: <3B054C20.3D4BA52@bigfoot.com>  & --------------F8EB959DF7370206EEC05FF0* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   H No, it's not incompatible, but I'll bet your using the wrong syntax. Try using:Y INIT/QUEUE/START/AUTOSTART_ON=(nodename::"ip_addr_or_name_in_dns_of_printer:port_number")h   Hamlyn     Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Hi >eC > I've been trying and failing to init an /autostart_on queue using5 > TCPIP$TELNETSYMQ5 > getting JBC-F-INVALPARVAL, invalid parameter value.z >WG > OK, I'll have to work around it. Is there a technical reason for thisi > omission?  >1 > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uky >hC > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofo > MedAS or the BBC.v  & --------------F8EB959DF7370206EEC05FF0) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiS Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitD  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>H No, it's not incompatible, but I'll bet your using the wrong syntax. Try using: <br>INIT/QUEUE/START/AUTOSTART_ON=(<font color="#FF0000">nodename</font>::"<font color="#000099">ip_addr_or_name_in_dns_of_printer</font>:<font color="#009900">port_number</font>")	 <p>Hamlyno
 <br>&nbsp; <p>Tim Llewellyn wrote:e <blockquote TYPE=CITE>HiD <p>I've been trying and failing to init an /autostart_on queue using <br>TCPIP$TELNETSYMe7 <br>getting JBC-F-INVALPARVAL, invalid parameter value.hH <p>OK, I'll have to work around it. Is there a technical reason for this
 <br>omission?. <p>--o: <br>Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project4 <br>MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.E <br>Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukuD <p>I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of" <br>MedAS or the BBC.</blockquote> </html>   ( --------------F8EB959DF7370206EEC05FF0--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:15:08 +0200e0 From: "Jacek Ostrowski" <ostrowski@sawan.com.pl>- Subject: looking for ssh on Alpha/OpenVMS 7.1n& Message-ID: <9e3ecm$36f$1@news.tpi.pl>   hello,  ) i'm looking for ssh for Alpha/OpenVMS 7.1o binaries would be the best is protocol ssh2 supported ?   thanks yaceke   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:52:46 +0100r, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m>5 Subject: Re: Managing hosts databases with TCPIP V5.xs3 Message-ID: <9e3d1s$hgk$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>t   Hi Matt,  > I hope you (or anyone else) can help with some DNS questions:-  < When I give a hostname > 1 addresses what do I have to do toI *ensure/guarantee* that the name server will give them out in exactly thet  same order that they went in on?  H I'll post a gethostbyname example that I've been using to test against aI Solaris 2.6 BIND 4 name server as the next reply. The guy that set up the-K name server assures me that the exhibited round-robin behaviour must be thetL default because he certainly didn't request it. (That is, if host FRED has 4C addresses then 4 successive calls to gethostbyname will result in aaG different address in position [0] each time. The name server is clearly5G cycling them around for each request for FRED and is independant of any C secondary name servers. (What caheing servers would make of it is a 
 mystery?))  K I have flicked through the O'Reilly book and read about the sortlist option J in the named.boot file but the book also mentions that with BIND 8 addressK sorting is removed. (4.8.3 Sorting at the name server. 4.9 Resolver addressuC sorting. BIND 4 Sorts same network order) Is it all vendor, version9% dependent or absolutely configurable?l  H How do you control DNS load balancing on/off on a per node/cluster basis  with the latest TCP/IP services?  H When the O'Reilly book discussess > 1 addresses per host it usually onlyJ relates it to multiple NICs and multi-homing and how to use sorting to endK up on the network that will give you the best performance. This is not what F I'm looking at. What I would like to do is, in a 3 node cluster nodeA,H nodeB, nodeC (1.2.3.1, 1.2.3.2, 1.2.3.3) cluster alias 1.2.3.9 is defineE each node in the namespace as its unique host address followed by its:I cluster alias. For example, nodeA would resolve to (1.2..3.1, 1.2.3.9) My@@ software (like TELNET and RSH) will try each address returned byK gethostbyname in turn until it finds an address that works or there are  nocK more addresses. That is why the order that the addresses are returned in is,K pivotal. The host's individual internet address(es) must be returned first,oL after that comes the cluster alias (or just a list of all the other nodes in% the cluster if that's clearer/easier)t   Regards Richard Maheri  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3B01E38F.C387A2EE@videotron.ca... > Matt Muggeridge wrote:K > > I think I see your confusion.  Your comment here suggests a .DB file isZ keptK > > on every system??  Anyway, this is not the case.  The way you configure6 DNS,K > > is you designate one server to be your PIRMARY server.  Then you manager ai7 > > single copy of the .DB files on the primary server.i >t > I > OK, i think i understand. SET HOST ( the TCPIP$HOSTS ) file is just the/ local K > hosts available to that node only, whereas the .DB files contain the realo data.a >uI > Since I run the bind server on that node, I didn't see the need to havea the 2e" > databases, but I understand now.     begin 666 get_host.cob= M02!F=6YN>2!T:&EN9R!H87!P96YD('=H96X@22!W96YT(&QO;VMI;F<@:6X@t= M1%-.($E44R!F;W(@<V]M92!M;W)E(&EN9F\@;VX@=&AE#0IH;W-T96YT('-Ti= M<G5C='5R92X@*$QO;VL@9F]R(")'971T:6YG(%1#4$E0($AO<W0@:6YF;W)MT= M871I;VX@=7-I;F<@)%%)3R(I(%=H96X-"G=O=6QD('-O;65O;F4@8V]D:6YGu= M(&EN($,@;F]T('5S92!G971H;W-T8GEN86UE*"D_(&%N9"!C86X@86YY;VYE-= M('1E;&P@;64@=VAA= T*;&EG:'0@=&AE(&5X86UP;&4@<VAE9',@;VX@=&AEi= M(&UA:V4M=7 @;V8@=&AE(&AO<W1E;G0@<W1R=6-T=7)E/R!9;W4G=F4@9V]Te= M=&$-"F)E(&AA=FEN)R!A(&QA=6=H(&%I;B=T('EA/PT*#0I!;GEW87D@22!Hm= M;W!E('1H92!F;VQL;W=I;F<@0T]"3TP@97AA;7!L92!M86ME<R!M;W)E('-E = M;G-E+@T*#0I4:&4@=V%Y($D@<V5E(&ET(&ES.BT-"@T*+B!H;W-T7VYA;64@i= M(" 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T*#0I!(&-O=7!L92!Ot= M9B!O8G-E<G9A=&EO;G,@=VET:"!3;VQA<FES+@T*#0HQ*2!)9B!A(&AO<W1Nh= M86UE(&AA<R!M;W)E('1H86X@;VYE(&%D9')E<W,@=&AE;B!T:&4@861D<F5Ss= M<R!W;VXG="!B86-K('AL871E+@T*(" @244Z($EF('EO=2!E;G1E<B!A<V-Ii= M:2 Q+C(N,RXT($ET(')E<W5L=',@:6X@(DYO('-U8V@@;F]D92(N#0HR*2!4e= M:&4@;F]D92!A9')E<W-E<R!A<F4@9&5L:6UT960@8GD@;G5L;',@;W(@;&]Nt= M9W=O<F0@>F5R;W,@=VAE<F5S(&]N(%5#6 T*(" @*&9O<B!A="!L96%S="!T-= M:&4@:&]S=',@9FEL92D@=&AE>2=R92!N;W0N#0H-"@T*:61E;G1I9FEC871Ir= M;VX@9&EV:7-I;VXN#0IP<F]G<F%M+6ED+B @("!G971?:&]S="X-"F5N=FER-= M;VYM96YT(&1I=FES:6]N+@T*8V]N9FEG=7)A=&EO;B!S96-T:6]N+@T*<W!ES= M8VEA;"UN86UE<RX-"@T*(" @(&-L87-S(&%?=F%L:61?;F]D96YA;64@:7,@+= M(" B02(@=&AR=2 B6B(L( T*(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @ = M(" @(" B82(@=&AR=2 B>B(L( T*(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @|= M(" @(" @(" B,"(@=&AR=2 B.2(L( T*(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @ = M(" @(" @(" @(" B+B(L("(M(BPB7R(L#0H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @ = M(" @(" @(" @(" @("(O(BP@(B B+"(D(BX-"F1A=&$@9&EV:7-I;VXN#0IW 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@(" @(" @(" @("!P:6,@>"X-"B @(" P,R @<F%?-" @(" @(" @(" @s= M(" @("!P:6,@>"X-"C Q("!I=&5M7V]F9G-E=" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @l= M(" @(" @("!R961E9FEN97,-"B @("!O9F9S971?<W1R:6YG(" @(" @(" @ = M("!P:6,@.2@Y*2 @("!C;VUP+@T*,#$@(')E;5]A9&1R(" @(" @(" @(" @,= M(" @('!I8R!X*#,R*2X-"C Q("!R96U?861D<E]L96X@(" @(" @(" @("!Po= M:6,@.2@T*2 @("!C;VUP+@T**@T*<')O8V5D=7)E(&1I=FES:6]N+@T*:VECD= M:U]O9F8@<V5C=&EO;BX-"C P+@T*(" @(&-A;&P@(G-Y<R1A<W-I9VXB#0H@e= M(" @(" @('5S:6YG(" @8GD@9&5S8W)I<'1O<B @(")?8F<Z(@T*(" @(" @f= M(" @(" @(" @(&)Y(')E9F5R96YC92 @("!I;F5T7V-H86X-"B @(" @(" @o= M(" @(" @("!B>2!V86QU92 @(" @(" @,"P@,"P@, T*(" @(" @("!G:79Ii= M;F<@('-Y<U]S=&%T=7,N#0H@(" @:68@<WES7W-T871U<R!N;W0@/2!S<R1?a= M;F]R;6%L(&-A;&P@(FQI8B1S=&]P(B!U<VEN9R!B>2!V86QU92!S>7-?<W1AM= M='5S+@T*#0H@(" @9&ES<&QA>2 B16YT97(@3F]D96YA;64Z("(@;&EN92 QE= M(&-O;'5M;B Q(&5R87-E('-C<F5E;B!N;R!A9'9A;F-I;F<N#0H@(" @86-C = M97!T(&EN7VYA;64@<F5V97)S960@8F]L9"!P<F]T96-T960@870@96YD(&UOn= M=F4@(EDB('1O(&5O9BX-"@T*(" 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@:68@:&]S=%]A9&1R97-S97,@d= M;F]T(#T@>F5R;W,-"B @(" @(" @;6]V92!O=71?<W1R:6YG*"AH;W-T7V%Dh= M9')E<W-E<R K(#$I.C0I('1O(&]F9G-E=%]S=')I;F<-"B @(" @(" @861Da= M(#$L(&ET96U?;V9F<V5T(&=I=FEN9R!I=&5M7W-T87)T#0H@(" @(" @('!Et= M<F9O<FT@=6YT:6P@:71E;5]S=&%R=" ^/2!H;W-T7V%D9')E<W-E<R -"B @n= M(" @(" @(" @(&UO=F4@;W5T7W-T<FEN9RAI=&5M7W-T87)T.C0I('1O(&]Fr= M9G-E=%]S=')I;F<-"B @(" @(" @(" @(&EF(&ET96U?;V9F<V5T(&YO=" ]-= M('IE<F]S#0H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @8V%L;" B<WES)&9A;R(-"B @(" @ = M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @=7-I;F<@(" @(" @8GD@9&5S8W)I<'1O<B @(")4:= M<GEI;F<@861D<F5S<SHM("% 54(N(4!50BXA0%5"+B% 54(B#0H@(" @(" @e= M(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(&)Y(')E9F5R96YC92 @("!R96U?i= M861D<E]L96X-"B @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @8GD@N= M9&5S8W)I<'1O<B @(')E;5]A9&1R#0H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @ = M(" @(" @(" @(&)Y(')E9F5R96YC92 @("!R85\Q+"!R85\R+"!R85\S+"!Rr= M85\T#0H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(&=I=FEN9R @(" @('-Y<U]S=&%T,= M=7,-"B @(" @(" @(" @(" @("!I9B!S>7-?<W1A='5S(&YO=" ]('-S)%]NU= M;W)M86P@#0H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @(&-A;&P@(FQI8B1S=&]P(B!U.= M<VEN9R!B>2!V86QU92!S>7-?<W1A='5S#0H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @96YDe= M+6EF#0H@(" @(" @(" @(" @(" @9&ES<&QA>2!R96U?861D<B@Q.G)E;5]A-= M9&1R7VQE;BD-"B @(" @(" @(" @(&5N9"UI9@T*(" @(" @(" @(" @861Do= M(#0@=&\@:71E;5]S=&%R= T*(" @(" @("!E;F0M<&5R9F]R;2X-"BH-"F9Ic= M;FDN#0HJ#0IE;F0@<')O9W)A;2!G971?:&]S="X-"@T*.TU!0U)/(&1E9FEN@= M:71I;VX@9FEL90T*#0H@(" @(" @("YT:71L92!G971?:&]S=%]D968-"@T*-= M(" @(" @(" N;&EB<F%R>2 O:6YE="\-"@T*(" @(" @(" D:6YE='-Y;61E7= M9B @(" @1TQ/0D%,#0H@(" @(" @("1I;F5T86-P9G-Y;61E9@T*(" @(" @w= M(" D:6YE=&%C<'-Y;61E9@T*#0H@(" @(" @(&=E=&AO<W1B>6YA;64@/3T@m= M/&EN971A8W D8U]H;W-T96YT7V]F9G-E=" J(#(U-B K(&EN971A8W!?9G5N 1 D8R1C7V=E=&AO<W1B>6YA;64^#0H-"B @(" @(" @+F5N9 T*r `g endf   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:12:53 +0100 , From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m>5 Subject: Re: Managing hosts databases with TCPIP V5.xi1 Message-ID: <9e3e3d$6hj$1@uranium.btinternet.com>   J A funny thing happend when I went looking in DSN ITS for some more info on the I hostent structure. (Look for "Getting TCPIP Host information using $QIO")l WhenI would someone coding in C not use gethostbyname()? and can anyone tell mee whatG light the example sheds on the make-up of the hostent structure? You'vey gottat be havin' a laugh ain't ya?t  ; Anyway I hope the following COBOL example makes more sense.d   The way I see it is:-/  9 . host_name      is an offset to a null terminated stringiE . host_aliases   is an offset to a list of offsets to null terminatedo strings.<                  The offset list being terminated by a null.K . host_addresses is an offset to an offset to a list of addresses. The listmL                  terminated when the pointer is >= the addresss of the first                  offset.  F Because, to some degree, Compaq has been churlishly unilateral in it's approachL to IPv6 and TCPware/Multinet(Process Software) It could be argued that there isE a disadvantage to a network software developer in supporting AF_INET6V
 addresses.  & A couple of observations with Solaris.  F 1) If a hostname has more than one address then the address won't back xlate.?    IE: If you enter ascii 1.2.3.4 It results in "No such node". J 2) The node adresses are delimted by nulls or longword zeros wheres on UCX-    (for at least the hosts file) they're not.-     identification division. program-id.    get_host. environment division.J configuration section. special-names.  -     class a_valid_nodename is   "A" thru "Z", -                                 "a" thru "z",,-                                 "0" thru "9", -                                 ".", "-","_",p-                                 "/", " ","$".- data division. working-storage section.@ 01  ucx$c_af_inet           pic 9(9)    comp    value   external ucx$c_af_inet.@ 01  gethostbyname           pic 9(9)    comp    value   external gethostbyname.@ 01  io$_acpcontrol          pic 9(9)    comp    value   external io$_acpcontrol. @ 01  ss$_endoffile           pic 9(9)    comp    value   external ss$_endoffile.@ 01  ss$_badparam            pic 9(9)    comp    value   external
 ss$_badparam.nL 01  ss$_normal              pic 9(9)    comp    value   external ss$_normal.- 01  sys_status              pic 9(9)    comp.e *r	 01  iosb.u-     03  cond_val            pic 9(4)    comp. %     03                      pic x(6).t * - 01  inet_chan               pic 9(4)    comp.s< 01  eof                     pic x               value   "N".& 01  in_name                 pic x(50).- 01  in_len                  pic 9(4)    comp..- 01  out_len                 pic 9(4)    comp.n 01  out_string.t-     03  host_name           pic 9(9)    comp. -     03  host_aliases        pic 9(9)    comp.o-     03  host_addrtype       pic 9(9)    comp.h-     03  host_addrlen        pic 9(9)    comp.o-     03  host_addresses      pic 9(9)    comp.o(     03                      pic x(1004).- 01  item_start              pic 9(9)    comp..- 01  item_len                pic 9(9)    comp.a 01  offset_string."     03  ra_1                pic x."     03  ra_2                pic x."     03  ra_3                pic x."     03  ra_4                pic x.1 01  item_offset                         redefines -     offset_string           pic 9(9)    comp.l& 01  rem_addr                pic x(32).- 01  rem_addr_len            pic 9(4)    comp.o *h procedure division.i kick_off section.f 00.c     call "sys$assign"'&         using   by descriptor   "_bg:")                 by reference    inet_chan('                 by value        0, 0, 01         giving  sys_status.nA     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value  sys_status.a  I     display "Enter Nodename: " line 1 column 1 erase screen no advancing.nB     accept in_name reversed bold protected at end move "Y" to eof.  &     perform dump_host until eof = "Y". *  fini.oA     call "sys$dassgn" using by value inet_chan giving sys_status. A     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value  sys_status.t  
     stop run.m *t dump_host section. 00. #     if in_name = spaces go to fini.   &     if in_name is not a_valid_nodename.         display "Illegal character(s) entered"         go to fini.n       call "str$trim".0         using   by descriptor   in_name, in_name&                 by reference    in_len         giving  sys_status. A     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value. sys_status.        call "sys$qiow"s<         using   by value        0, inet_chan, io$_acpcontrol$                 by reference    iosb#                 by value        0,0 @                 by descriptor   gethostbyname, in_name(1:in_len)'                 by reference    out_leno*                 by descriptor   out_string#                 by value        0,0u         giving  sys_status.e  ;     if sys_status = ss$_normal move cond_val to sys_status.d     evaluate    sys_status6         when    ss$_normal      perform format_displayI         when    ss$_badparam    display "Increase the size of Out_String"96         when    ss$_endoffile   display "Unknown Node"I         when    other           call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status:     end-evaluate.( *9 fini.;,     display "Enter Nodename: " no advancing.B     accept in_name reversed bold protected at end move "Y" to eof. *8 format_display section.= 00.!*     if (host_addrtype not = ucx$c_af_inet)*     or (host_addrlen  not = 4            )*         display "Unknown address type/len"'         display "Can't handle af_inet6"(         go to fini.- *+ * Get official host name *-     if host_name not = zeros*         add 1, host_name giving item_start         move zeros to item_len<         inspect out_string(item_start:(out_len - host_name))E             tallying item_len for characters before initial low-value=G         display 'Host Name is "', out_string(item_start:item_len), '"'.$ *+ * Dump aliases *-     if host_aliases not = zeros(-         add 1, host_aliases giving item_start:+         perform until item_start >= out_lenT:             move out_string(item_start:4) to offset_string"             if item_offset = zeros*                 move out_len to item_start             else&                 move zeros to item_len?                 inspect out_string((item_offset + 1):(out_len -4
 item_offset)) C                     tallying item_len for characters before initial<	 low-value1?                 display 'Alias is "', out_string((item_offset +, 1):item_len), '"'T#                 add 4 to item_start;             end-if         end-perform. *+ * Dump Addresses *-!     if host_addresses not = zeros<@         move out_string((host_addresses + 1):4) to offset_string,         add 1, item_offset giving item_start2         perform until item_start >= host_addresses:             move out_string(item_start:4) to offset_string&             if item_offset not = zeros                 call "sys$fao"A                     using       by descriptor   "Trying address:-= !@UB.!@UB.!@UB.!@UB"<                                 by reference    rem_addr_len8                                 by descriptor   rem_addrF                                 by reference    ra_1, ra_2, ra_3, ra_4*                     giving      sys_status.                 if sys_status not = ss$_normal=                     call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status(                 end-if0                 display rem_addr(1:rem_addr_len)             end-if             add 4 to item_start@         end-perform. *( fini.9 *8 end program get_host.=   ;MACRO definition file           .title get_host_def            .library /inet/A           $inetsymdef     GLOBAL         $inetacpfsymdef          $inetacpsymdef  :         gethostbyname == <inetacp$c_hostent_offset * 256 + inetacp_func$c_gethostbyname>(           .end   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 17:32:49 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)e" Subject: Re: Memo:  Multimedia Doc! Message-ID: <PH0RKpdr8dTx@gaelic>(  9 In article <02i7gt8vqe0mo3g5k8fhhdll3o3hc8jh3k@4ax.com>, ,' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:(C > On Mon, 14 May 2001 16:34:18 +0100, paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com wrote:-  1 >>Folks(H >>Having made it to the promised land by acquiring a DPW500 with all theM >>useful bells and whistles, I am now exploring audio on VMS with interest. I K >>cannot find and doc either in, on or around the system nor on the net for(K >>the MMOV app set. I managed to get the audio device working (by followingTG >>the release notes!) but can't go much further without some info. Main,M >>interest - can I play MP3 files? Any pointers to useful doc most gratefully: >>received.   !G > Possibly decsound (you should have it in sys$system) has been updated8D > to play MP3s. Haven't tried it myself. Also check out the freeware  K Decsound cannot play mp3, however I've made some time ago a port of mpg123  M V 0.59r  (the last version actually available) and it works like a charm withDO MMOV. You'll find it at the DECW archive (http://decwarch.free.fr) and probably( into the Freeware CD 4.0 (  O You can play midi with Timidity (excellent when you install all sammples kits),*   Patrick; --O =============================================================================== O pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)(4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================:   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 12:33:38 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>( Subject: Re: Monitor System9H Message-ID: <y4n18b7xq5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  G > A question. When an image exits and the pages are free, there will be-D > a bunch of RO pages, plus a lot of 'dead' pages, private, modifiedC > pages that can never be used. Are they unconditionally zeroed and5 > placed on the zero list? <  M The should go on the tail of the free list, where the NULL process takes them I from when filling up the DZRO list. In theory, as this is probably a LIFO-F process, a page could stay "in the middle" of the free list "forever".  : > And are unmodified DZRO pages returned to the zero list?  K I was going to write that no such exists, but that isn't necessarily true -#J you could read a DZRO page, which would make it appear in the working set,J but not modify it afterwards. This is somewhat unlikely to happen, though,K so I doubt this special case is handled. I think it is almost impossible toEJ find out afterwards that this page being deleted that has the modified PTEM bit not set in fact came directly from a freshly initialized DZRO page (there,H are other cases where the bit might not be set, but the page in questionI no longer containing only zeros - for instance, after an outswap/inswap).;   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:03:16 +01008- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>t Subject: Re: Monitor SystemP1 Message-ID: <3B04E554.D0884D37@BlueBubble.UK.Com>=  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  L > It doesn't conflict with your understanding, you can still pull back pagesJ > that haven't been wiped yet. I don't recall the details just now, but itM > seems sensible to assume there's some limiting factor on how fast the pages<: > are cleared. Maybe some sort of "target free" parameter? ><J > I'd be interested if any memory management gurus out there could explain) > the finer details to me. Online or off.9  G Shane, the target free parameter is ZERO_LIST_HI (default is 16 pages).9H If you've got a lot of image activation with lots of demand zero paging,N (and if you have a bit of idle CPU time), then set the parameter a lot higher.K If you have no idle time, then the effect will be zero, since it's the idle( loopK that does the zeroing.  In addition, if you've got (next to) no demand zero;H paging, then it's counter-productive to increase the parameter, since itI reduces the probability of pages from the free list being soft paged intoX a working set.  	 Roy Omond= Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:45:32 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9, Message-ID: <9dti9b$56ek@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:D7cfrtgq9Iby@eisner.encompasserve.org...;  E > I assume that's the same as the 1.3.0-1 listed as "New" for OpenVMS< > Alpha on Compaq's web page? J > Which is news since the last time I looked 1.3.0 was listed as pre-beta.  E News to me too. According to the Mozilla release notes it should work9 as a pluggable VM.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 08:47:05 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)E Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.93 Message-ID: <7qhhljrlcy5G@eisner.encompasserve.org>8  Y In article <9dti9b$56ek@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:9 > < > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:D7cfrtgq9Iby@eisner.encompasserve.org...9 > F >> I assume that's the same as the 1.3.0-1 listed as "New" for OpenVMS >> Alpha on Compaq's web page?K >> Which is news since the last time I looked 1.3.0 was listed as pre-beta.  > G > News to me too. According to the Mozilla release notes it should work( > as a pluggable VM. >   B So far it doens't work anyhow.  I'm assuming it needs an update toB mozilla to use it.  Or is there something I need to set up (helper@ application?) after installing both mozilla 0.9 and JDK 1.3.0-1.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationT= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupLE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying]   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:57:08 GMT(= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-); Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.90 Message-ID: <009FC309.5D7288CA@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <7qhhljrlcy5G@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:9Z >In article <9dti9b$56ek@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes: >> %= >> "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message 0 >> news:D7cfrtgq9Iby@eisner.encompasserve.org... >> (G >>> I assume that's the same as the 1.3.0-1 listed as "New" for OpenVMS( >>> Alpha on Compaq's web page?]L >>> Which is news since the last time I looked 1.3.0 was listed as pre-beta. >> 1H >> News to me too. According to the Mozilla release notes it should work >> as a pluggable VM.r >> \ >HC >So far it doens't work anyhow.  I'm assuming it needs an update to(  B Will there *ever* be a version of Mozilla that doesn't shitcan the Xserver when it's run?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COME            (O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.U   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:37:40 +0100]% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>)9 Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9 how do I save email attachments.H8 Message-ID: <7nn9gtk8ongl3an0c7s5u5jnj6ncajc1kf@4ax.com>  C On Thu, 17 May 2001 14:17:45 GMT, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>( wrote:  8 >Was the message sent from Outlook? If so, this might be2 >http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76323  F Could be although the problem seems to hit us with messages other thanE those from outlook. I'll try and investigate further but at least the 4 referenced bug report seems to be in the right area. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:18:33 +0100.% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t Subject: Re: Opera browser8 Message-ID: <o2q9gtg9cl4iaoh332sjb4qivcmn3d4phg@4ax.com>  D On Thu, 17 May 2001 13:05:20 -0400, paul.r.anderson@compaq.com (Paul Anderson) wrote:  E >In article <OF9B8799CE.FB917C4F-ON88256A4F.005C77EF@foundation.com>,e# >Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  >t+ >> Still, a count of 3 isn't enough either.  >t >Four. >nF >I'd love to have a browser that actually works on my OpenVMS system. H >Netscape Navigator 3.03 barfs with too many pages.  Mozilla so far is a >joke.  E It still has a few problems but if you don't need JAVA I'd say 0.9 is  pretty much usable.i   >  >Paul    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 18:07:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Opera browser- Message-ID: <87zocbhsxf.fsf@prep.synonet.com>f  - Harald van Pee <pee@iskp.uni-bonn.de> writes:e  D > I even use opera on linux instead of mozilla.  At the moment operaD > for linux is a browser only, but they will add mail and news soon.  2 If I want a news/mail reader, I'll get a good one.  B > In the opposite mozilla will be much more than browser, mail and9 > news, but still isn't anything which realy can be used.h  ? Oh great, now having a pile of extra crap that does not work isr@ a good reason for basic functions not working. Welcome to modern software...o   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:45:45 GMT"- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>  Subject: Re: Opera browser0 Message-ID: <3B053596.92BBFAF4@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:I > I only want more than one VMS application product for any given problemlH > like a WWW browser. And there is LYNX, MOSAIC, NETSCAPE V3.03 (JAVA isN > Alpha-only) and MOZILLA (Alpha-Only), and this just isn't enough in my eyes.  L You forgot HotJava:  http://java.sun.com/products/hotjava/index.html  I know- this was working at one time on our platform.u   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 13:26:13 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Opera browser3 Message-ID: <R9cnCexwcHcK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <3B053596.92BBFAF4@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> writes: > Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:J >> I only want more than one VMS application product for any given problemI >> like a WWW browser. And there is LYNX, MOSAIC, NETSCAPE V3.03 (JAVA is(O >> Alpha-only) and MOZILLA (Alpha-Only), and this just isn't enough in my eyes.p > N > You forgot HotJava:  http://java.sun.com/products/hotjava/index.html  I know/ > this was working at one time on our platform.   A IIRAC, HotJava hasn't worked on any platform for the last several  releases of Java.l  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group1E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 08:21:56 +0200 (MET DST) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de># Subject: Page- and swapfile cleanupc6 Message-ID: <200105180617.IAA07903@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  E we do have an OpenVMS system for our security work. Is it possible to D cleanup the page- and swapfile before shutdown (like Windows)? Or isF it possible to protect the files against user access (no user can readJ the content)? If it is not possible to read the content of this two files,$ then we must not cleanup this files.A An additional question, is the best way to install an priviledged D "shutdown" user, which can't do anything except shutdown the system.   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 08:58:01 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis)a' Subject: Re: Page- and swapfile cleanup ! Message-ID: <gH9eOHLGr1jr@ludens>I  _ In article <200105180617.IAA07903@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:r > Hello, > G > we do have an OpenVMS system for our security work. Is it possible tot0 > cleanup the page- and swapfile before shutdown   I do not know :-(u       > Or is 6 > it possible to protect the files against user access  5 Page and swap files are unreadable by ordinary users.n  #   $ dir sys$system:pagefile.sys/sec       Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]  G   PAGEFILE.SYS;1       [1,1]                            (RWED,RWED,RE,)_      C > An additional question, is the best way to install an priviledged F > "shutdown" user, which can't do anything except shutdown the system.  % I think you want a ``CAPTIVE'' user. l# (The ``CAPTIVE'' is a sysuaf  flag.s3 More info: "System Manager's Guide: Esentials"  and  Guide to System Security)c   >   > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert >    Regards,   Adam Maulis    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 04:42:14 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: Page- and swapfile cleanupn, Message-ID: <3B04E065.E69865DC@videotron.ca>   Rudolf Wingert wrote: G > we do have an OpenVMS system for our security work. Is it possible toi@ > cleanup the page- and swapfile before shutdown (like Windows)?  K If you really had to, you would have to catch the file late in the shutdownoI process after all processes have been killed, hope that your own shutdown M process isn't mapped to that page file, then you can use sysgen to remove the H page file, at which point the file becomes closed and you can delete and recreate a new one.r  I But as long as a process has some pages reserved on a page/swap file, youg won't be able to do much to it.      > Or issH > it possible to protect the files against user access (no user can read > the content)?   M Normally, files are created such that users do not have the ability to access4J the files. If you do SHOW MEM from a non privileged user, you should see aM message telling you that you do not have access to the page file information.nI Doing so will also generate an alarm on the console because you attemptedf unsuccesfully to access a file.i  E DIR/SEC of  the file will give you the file's protection information.i  = >If it is not possible to read the content of this two files,T& > then we must not cleanup this files.  N These files are locked by the system during the boot process and are generallyI unlocked only very late in the shutdown process after all users have beenfH kicked out.  The one area where a user might get some access is when theN system reboots as a minimal system (which means that additional page files areI not installed), the user who is at the console will have the potential tolS access the page file whose content will reflect the system at the time of shutdown.!  C > An additional question, is the best way to install an priviledgedrF > "shutdown" user, which can't do anything except shutdown the system.  M Yes, quite easy. you can create a captive user and its login.com simply calls L the @SYS$MANAGER:SYSHUTDWN with the right parameters. However, you will haveM to test this since it might be possible that the shutdown procedure might not-# work well in a captive environment.1   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 06:47:53 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)=' Subject: Re: Page- and swapfile cleanupt3 Message-ID: <0kD0tuVSqLWC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <200105180617.IAA07903@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:   C > An additional question, is the best way to install an priviledged F > "shutdown" user, which can't do anything except shutdown the system.  C Get a copy of the trick floating around to run shutdown from Batch. < (It basically starts a detached process from the batch job).  @ On startup, have SYSTEM submit the shutdown batch job /HOLD to a= queue owned by the "Shutdown" user.  When the time comes, the C Shutdown user can release the batch job with no special privileges.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:58:41 -0400i- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>o' Subject: Re: Page- and swapfile cleanup ( Message-ID: <3B050E71.3D1A1725@ohio.edu>  L If I understand the queue manager correctly, one way to give a user only theL privilege of shutting down the system is to have a batch queue that is ownedF by that user, into which SYSTEM has submitted a shutdown job (or other> sufficiently privileged account with SUBMIT/USER=SYSTEM).  TheH nearly-unprivilieged user, as owner of the queue can release the job andL change its parameters.  It may be necessary to use ACLs on the queue, I haveM only actually done this on recent versions of VMS by granting OPER privilege, & which may be more than you want to do.  6 The shutdown job re-submits itself /HOLD and then does  D $ run/detach/user=SYSTEM SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT/input=batchshutdown.com  A where batchshutdown.com does an @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN 'P1 'P2 ....l  C Last minute control (should it reboot or not) can be done by having=< batchshutdown.com pass its parameters (or some of them) intoK SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.  The two-step process  avoids having the shutdown hangc1 at the point when the queue manager is shut down.s  #                                 RDP/     Rudolf Wingert wrote:P   > Hello, > G > we do have an OpenVMS system for our security work. Is it possible toAF > cleanup the page- and swapfile before shutdown (like Windows)? Or isH > it possible to protect the files against user access (no user can readL > the content)? If it is not possible to read the content of this two files,& > then we must not cleanup this files.C > An additional question, is the best way to install an priviledgedsF > "shutdown" user, which can't do anything except shutdown the system. >g  > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 01 05:53:39 PDT From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com ' Subject: Re: Page- and swapfile cleanupw( Message-ID: <fpQKX4c8mdU$@cpva.saic.com>  3 In article <0kD0tuVSqLWC@eisner.encompasserve.org>,"<  Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:8 > In article <200105180617.IAA07903@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>,+ >  Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:n > D >> An additional question, is the best way to install an priviledgedG >> "shutdown" user, which can't do anything except shutdown the system.k > E > Get a copy of the trick floating around to run shutdown from Batch. > > (It basically starts a detached process from the batch job). > B > On startup, have SYSTEM submit the shutdown batch job /HOLD to a? > queue owned by the "Shutdown" user.  When the time comes, therE > Shutdown user can release the batch job with no special privileges.i  E Attached is a copy of the procedure that Larry referenced... original-E author unknown. Just do as Larry suggested and have some account withm OPER release it.   -- u - Jim.     $! SHUTDOWN_DETACHED.COM S
 $ set noonH $ privs = "AUDIT, CMKRNL, EXQUOTA, LOG_IO, NETMBX, OPER, SECURITY, " + -)           "SYSNAM, SYSPRV, TMPMBX, WORLD"u $ saved_privs = f$setprv(privs)l $ if .not. f$privilege(privs)e $ then' $   saved_privs = f$setprv(saved_privs)  $   write sys$output ""t $   write sys$output -@     "%SHUTDOWN-F-NOPRIV, the following privileges are required:"3 $   write sys$output "-SHUTDOWN-F-NOPRIV, ''privs'"e $   exit %x10360004e $ endifs2 $ if f$mode() .nes. "OTHER" then goto run_detached6 $ @sys$system:shutdown 0 shutdown yes no later no none $ exit 1 $run_detached: $ run sys$system:loginout -o   /process_name="ShutDown" -&   /input='f$environment("procedure")'-   /output=_nla0: -   /uic=[1,4] -   /priority=8 -l   /privileges=('privs')o% $ saved_privs = f$setprv(saved_privs)o $ exit 1   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:20:27 GMTe From: dvv@dvv.ru (Dima Volodin)h' Subject: POSIX threads and word tearinge6 Message-ID: <3b093aca.72339003@news-server.cox.rr.com>  K In message <3B052236.11C72762@web.de>, Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de>b wrote:   >POSIX >-6 >"Applications shall ensure that access to any memory .                                            ^^^7 > location by more than one thread of control (threads w5 > or processes) is restricted such that no thread of e5 > control can read or modify a memory location while a6 > another thread of control may be modifying it. Such 8 > access is restricted using functions that synchronize 4 > thread execution and also synchronize memory with  > respect to other threads."  K Which is to say the standard doesn't make any exceptions about what kind ofpO memory location is protected by a mutex and, as worded, an implementation shall0K make it safe to access "any memory location" of any alignment provided thateK either the accessed object is not modified by other threads or a particular@J mutex is used to guard the access to the object. Also, if an object is notJ accessed from other threads, it should be safe to access it even though itN shares a word of memory with objects that are accessed from other threads. AndD if an implementation suffers from word tearing, it's not a compliantL implementation. And I don't think that it's what the authors of the standard	 intended.   O Do we have any definition of what "memory location" means in POSIX? I only wish  that POSIX had something like I http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6493/6101pro_007.html#gran_secn   >alexander.    Dima   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:10:44 -0400-. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>R Subject: Re: Sort of off topic but: How do I find VMS information atwww.oracle.com+ Message-ID: <9e3afu$fhu$1@bob.news.rcn.net>e  I IDX (www.idx.com) is a company that produces software for use, I believe,h& primarily in the health-care industry.   Ken Randell   8 Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message+ news:3B04E7B3.9FE5AB9D@BlueBubble.UK.Com...R > Scott Vieth wrote: >DD > > Yes, the IDX shops will be migrating to Cache' from ISM and DSM. > >nI > > Eventually, there will be quite a few VMS shops using Cache after IDXi gets all > > of its customers converted.a >BJ > Scott, for the benefit of us non-USofA'ans, could someone please explain what IDX > is ?@ > Is it some sort of health insurance umbrella company or what ? >> > Thanks in advance, >e > Roy Omond- > Blue Bubble Ltd. >p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:13:23 +0100t- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>1Y Subject: Re: Sort of off topic but: How do I find VMS information atwww.oracle.com atwww.l1 Message-ID: <3B04E7B3.9FE5AB9D@BlueBubble.UK.Com>I   Scott Vieth wrote:  B > Yes, the IDX shops will be migrating to Cache' from ISM and DSM. >iP > Eventually, there will be quite a few VMS shops using Cache after IDX gets all > of its customers converted.o  Q Scott, for the benefit of us non-USofA'ans, could someone please explain what IDXa is ?> Is it some sort of health insurance umbrella company or what ?   Thanks in advance,  	 Roy OmondG Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 May 2001 13:18:40 GMT7 From: Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann)> Subject: sys$trnlnm00 Message-ID: <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-QYwQfpTGif73@Tom2>  > I try to use sys$trnlnm to translate the logical "sys$output".> The service returns SS$_NORMAL but in the string buffer filled< by sys$trnlnm are four bytes '1B 00 02 81' before the valid ? device name. If I translate "TT" all work fine. The same effecteA occours if I translate "sys$error" or "sys$input". What's wrong ?    Thanks in advance-   Thomas Hahnemann S&T Systemtechnik GmbH   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:59:42 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)o Subject: Re: sys$trnlnm 0 Message-ID: <009FC309.B914F61C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  j In article <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-QYwQfpTGif73@Tom2>, Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann) writes: >n? >I try to use sys$trnlnm to translate the logical "sys$output". ? >The service returns SS$_NORMAL but in the string buffer filledn= >by sys$trnlnm are four bytes '1B 00 02 81' before the valid a@ >device name. If I translate "TT" all work fine. The same effectB >occours if I translate "sys$error" or "sys$input". What's wrong ?  A Nothing!  The "escape" in the SYS${INPUT/OUTPUT/ERROR} are there.        --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa            sO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 16:11:57 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e Subject: Re: sys$trnlnmeH Message-ID: <y4heyivj9u.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  9 Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann) writes:t  @ > I try to use sys$trnlnm to translate the logical "sys$output".@ > The service returns SS$_NORMAL but in the string buffer filled> > by sys$trnlnm are four bytes '1B 00 02 81' before the valid A > device name. If I translate "TT" all work fine. The same effect0C > occours if I translate "sys$error" or "sys$input". What's wrong ?    Nothing.  H SYS$OUTPUT and company are examples of so-called process-permanent filesM (PPFs); any file that you OPEN in DCL without /USER also is in this category.lG In order to enable a user-mode program to open and append to such filesrF without causing a security hole, the logical names are created with anJ escape value (1B is ESC, and a zero for padding), followed by the two-byteJ Internal File Indentifier (IFI). This is a pointer to an RMS-internal dataK structure - essentially the exec-mode copy of the outer-mode FAB. (There isMD a similar thing called an ISI (S=stream) for RABs.) If RMS sees thisJ combination when asked to $OPEN a file by logical name, it will verify theI IFI value and then open the file in a special mode that allows a program,o7 for instance, to append its output to a batch log file.e   Alles klar wie Tinte?5   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:22:11 -0400s. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> Subject: Re: sys$trnlnm9+ Message-ID: <9e3b5d$j9c$1@bob.news.rcn.net>j  H SYS$OUTPUT is a process-permanent file.  I'm not sure why they translateH with the hex stuff at the beginning, but it has been that way for a very) long time.  There isn't anything 'wrong'.V  L Someone here will have to step in with more information as to why it is done	 that way.y   Ken Randell   B Thomas Hahnemann <Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de> wrote in message* news:Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-QYwQfpTGif73@Tom2... >o@ > I try to use sys$trnlnm to translate the logical "sys$output".@ > The service returns SS$_NORMAL but in the string buffer filled= > by sys$trnlnm are four bytes '1B 00 02 81' before the valid A > device name. If I translate "TT" all work fine. The same effect C > occours if I translate "sys$error" or "sys$input". What's wrong ?  >a > Thanks in advancen >p > Thomas Hahnemann > S&T Systemtechnik GmbH >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:37:55 -0400g2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: sys$trnlnm9L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1805011037560001@user-2iveci9.dialup.mindspring.com>  0 In article <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-QYwQfpTGif73@Tom2>,8 Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann) wrote:  @ > I try to use sys$trnlnm to translate the logical "sys$output".@ > The service returns SS$_NORMAL but in the string buffer filled> > by sys$trnlnm are four bytes '1B 00 02 81' before the valid A > device name. If I translate "TT" all work fine. The same effecthC > occours if I translate "sys$error" or "sys$input". What's wrong ?o    J The logical names for process-permanent logical names like sys$output haveD some extra stuff in them.  This is documented somewhere, but I don'tI remember exactly where.  I think the bytes you are seeing are the address8H of a FIB or some other internal data structure.  Memory is very vague on this.e   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comr   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 11:58:06 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: sys$trnlnmi3 Message-ID: <2LEl69lzPb8N@eisner.encompasserve.org>a   In article <rdeininger-1805011037560001@user-2iveci9.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:E2 > In article <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-QYwQfpTGif73@Tom2>,: > Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann) wrote: > A >> I try to use sys$trnlnm to translate the logical "sys$output".iA >> The service returns SS$_NORMAL but in the string buffer fillede? >> by sys$trnlnm are four bytes '1B 00 02 81' before the valid nB >> device name. If I translate "TT" all work fine. The same effectD >> occours if I translate "sys$error" or "sys$input". What's wrong ? > L > The logical names for process-permanent logical names like sys$output haveF > some extra stuff in them.  This is documented somewhere, but I don'tK > remember exactly where.  I think the bytes you are seeing are the address J > of a FIB or some other internal data structure.  Memory is very vague on > this.h   Reasonably accurate.  H First two bytes for a PPF equivalence name are always 0x1b 0x00 (escape,G null).  Second two bytes are, I believe an RMS internal file identifieriA (IFI).  The remainder of the equivalence name is usually a devicegF name.  And usually it is the same as the name of the device containing0 the file identified by the IFI.  But not always.  A If you use a PPF logical name in the context of an RMS file open,vG RMS will ignore the device name and use only the IFI value.  You'll usei% the already-open channel to the file.a  @ If you use a PPF logical name in the context of a lower level IOE call such as $ASSIGN, VMS will ignore the PPF prefix and use only thehA appended device name.  You'll assign a new channel to the device.s  A There are various techniques which will allow you to retrieve thee? full file name that is associated with a PPF logical name.  Letl me see if I can dig one out.  E Found this one in the VMS conference on DECUServe (aka encompasserve)l8 It's in Macro32.  Tested on both VAX and AXP as I recall9 Kudos to Jon Pinkley who took my original hack and vastlye improved it.   	John Briggs  @ ; PPF translate specified PPF logical name to file specification< ; This is based on code posted on comp.os.vms by John Briggs? ; on 19 Nov 1996, message-id <1996Nov19.110550@alpha.vitro.com>s< ; Modified by Jon Pinkley to accept a logical name so we can3 ; get the actual file name of a file opened by DCL.e: ; This also sets three local symbols, instead of only one. ; : ; First delete local symbols PHY_FILE_NAME, ORG_FILE_NAME,: ; and FID_FILE_NAME.   These will be recreated when we can ; successfully determine them. ;r ; PHY_FILE_NAME 9 ;   This is the unconcealed name of the file at the time e5 ;   it was opened.  If it has been renamed, this willg ;   not be correct.  ; $ ;   PHY_FILE_NAME is set as follows:: ;   If it's a PPF, then do a $DISPLAY with nop=<noconceal>' ;     and save the resulting file name.r9 ;     If it is a record oriented device, (you can't trust-8 ;     fab$l_dev for this, you must ask $getdvi), instead5 ;     of using the rsa returned by $display, use the a ;     nam$t_dvi value.3 ;     (this is the name it had when it was opened.)i5 ;     if the device is a terminal, then save only theA6 ;     device name.  Set FILE_NAME to the saved string.; ;   If it's not a PPF, exit with warning status CLI$_UNDFILi2 ;   This is after all, meant to be used with PPF's ;d ; ORG_FILE_NAME 7 ;   This is the concealed name of the file at the time a5 ;   it was opened.  If it has been renamed, this wills ;   not be correct.r ;t$ ;   ORG_FILE_NAME is set as follows:% ;   If it's a record oriented device  $ ;     set ORG_FILE_NAME to nam$l_dev ;   otherwise 0 ;     do another $DISPLAY, this time displaying ! ;     the concealed name, and set / ;     ORG_FILE_NAME to the concealed file name.  ; " ; FID_FILE_NAME is set as follows: ;   If nam$l_fid is non zero? ;     determine the current file name by using lib$fid_to_name.7< ;     Set FID_FILE_NAME to this value.  Note that this file C ;     name will be correct if the file was renamed using the RENAMEe9 ;     command (but not necessarily if the FID is entered r ;     multiple times). ;m  ; Usage: $ ppf :== $some_dir:ppf ;        $ ppf [logical_name]i ;S? ;        if no logical is specified, then sys$output is assumedt1 ;        i.e. the following three are equivalent:t ;        $ ppf sys$outputo ;        $ ppf: ;	 $ run some_dir:ppf ! foreign command not necessary here ;M> ;        The reason the this is the default is that it is very? ;        useful to allow a batch process to determine the exact . ;        filename and version of its log file. ;t> ;        PPF can also be used to determine the version of file) ;        opened by DCL.  Example follows:t, ;        $ open/read foo sys$login:login.com ;	 $ ppf foo( ;        $ show symbol/local *_file_name@ ;          FID_FILE_NAME = "DISK$USER1:[USERS.JON]LOGIN.COM;181": ;          ORG_FILE_NAME = "ROOT$USERS:[JON]LOGIN.COM;181"A ;          PHY_FILE_NAME = "$4$DKA200:[USERS.][JON]LOGIN.COM;181"f ;        $ close/nolog foo ; 3 ;  example where file gets renamed while it is openk ;s" ;        $ open/write foo test.dat ;        $ ppf foo# ;        $ sho sym /loc *_file_namet> ;          FID_FILE_NAME = "DISK$JSCRATCH:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1"> ;          ORG_FILE_NAME = "DISK$JSCRATCH:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1": ;          PHY_FILE_NAME = "$4$DKC204:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1"& ;        $ ren test.dat; jons.data;100 ;        $ ppf foo# ;        $ sho sym /loc *_file_namenA ;          FID_FILE_NAME = "DISK$JSCRATCH:[JON.PPF]JONS.DATA;100"u> ;          ORG_FILE_NAME = "DISK$JSCRATCH:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1": ;          PHY_FILE_NAME = "$4$DKC204:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1" ;        $ close/nolog foo   	.psect	data,quad,noexe  	$LNMDEF 	$FABDEF 	$NAMDEF 	$DEVDEF 	$DVIDEF 	$CLIMSGDEFo  ( 	.macro	errchk, ?skip		; check for error& 	blbs	r0, skip		; on success skip this# 	pushl	r0			; push offending statusc, 	calls	#1, g^lib$stop		; and kill this thing) skip:	.endm	errchk			; and that's errchk!U   fab:	$FAB	nam=namn nam:	$NAM	rsa=buffer,- 		rss=buffer_size,-r 		nop=<noconceal>s  	 itemlist:. 	.word	buffer_size 	.word	lnm$_string 	.address	buffer 	.address	file_name_desc 	.long	0   	.align quad buffer:	.blkb	255r buffer_size=.-buffer 	.align quad buffer1:	.blkb	255 buffer1_size=.-buffer1 	.align quad buffer2:	.blkb	16  buffer2_size=.-buffer2 	.align quad recdev:	.blkl	1o dvirec:	.long	DVI$_REC return_length: 	.blkw	1   sysout: .ascid  /SYS$OUTPUT/ tabnam:	.ascid	/LNM$FILE_DEV/bF phynam:	.ascid	/PHY_FILE_NAME/		; name file was originally opened with> orgnam: .ascid	/ORG_FILE_NAME/		; same as file_name, concealedD fidnam:	.ascid	/FID_FILE_NAME/		; name determined by lib$fid_to_name0 input:	.long	lnm$c_namlength		; make a descr for  	.address 2$			; lib$get_foreign. 2$:	.blkb	lnm$c_namlength		; the buffer itself   file_name_desc:u 	.blkw	1 	.word	0 	.address buffer   fid_name_desc: 	.blkw	1 	.word	0 	.address buffer1    dvi_name_desc: 	.blkw	1 	.word	0 	.address buffer2,   	.psect	code,exe 	.entry	MAIN,^m<>B 	; Get logical file name of PPFp7 	pushal	input			; set the length to the length returneda 	pushl	#0			; noprompt+ 	pushal	input			; write the rec'd data heret, 	calls	#3, g^lib$get_foreign	; get a command 	errchk				; check for error  . 	cmpw	input, #0		; no input logical specified? 	bneq	5$7 	movc3	sysout,@sysout+4,@input+4 ; input = "SYS$OUTPUT"R 	movw	sysout,input 5$: 9 	; Delete the symbols we are going to set (ignore errors)x" 	pushaq	fidnam			; "FID_FILE_NAME" 	calls	#1,g^lib$delete_symbol=" 	pushaq	orgnam			; "ORG_FILE_NAME" 	calls	#1,g^lib$delete_symbola" 	pushaq	phynam			; "PHY_FILE_NAME" 	calls	#1,g^lib$delete_symbol   3 	; Translate specified logical name in LNM$FILE_DEV- 	pushal	itemlist	 	pushl	#0a
 	pushaq	input  	pushaq	tabnam	 	pushl	#0v 	calls	#5,g^sys$trnlnm 	blbs	r0,10$ 	brw	99$			; error? bail   	; Is it a PPF logical name?( 10$:	cmpw	buffer,#^X001b		; Escape, null	 	beql	11$C" 	brw	101$			; it's not a PPF, quit 11$:$ 	; Use $DISPLAY to get PPF file name 	movw	buffer+2,fab+fab$w_ifi# 	bisw2	#fab$m_ppf_ind,fab+fab$w_ifi 2 	$display	fab=fab		; first with non-concealed name 	errchk				; check for error  2 	; Determine if device is a record oriented deviceF 	; Note that network devices like node"user pass"::sys$login:login.com@ 	; will have nam$t_dvi set to a null string.  In this case, just> 	; treat it like a non-record oriented device.  We will handle% 	; the lack of a FID at a later time.c  3 	; copy the nam$t_dvi name into the dvi_name stringe 	t# 	movzbw	nam+nam$t_dvi,dvi_name_desco	 	bneq	12$l) 	brw	20$			; must be a decnet device named 12$:5 	movc3	dvi_name_desc,nam+nam$t_dvi+1,@dvi_name_desc+4o 	l5 	pushal	recdev			; boolean for record oriented devicec$ 	pushaq	dvi_name_desc		; device name# 	pushl	#0			; channel not specifiede. 	pushal	dvirec			; address containing DVI$_REC 	calls	#4,g^lib$getdvi 	errchke  * 	tstl	recdev			; if record oriented device% 	beql	20$			; then skip the followingh  8 	; here we have a record oriented device.  Directory and/ 	; file names really don't make a lot of sense.a% 	; set PHY_FILE_NAME to nam$t_dvi and ! 	;     ORG_FILE_NAME to nam$l_dev   	; leave FID_FILE_NAME undefined   	pushaq	dvi_name_desca 	pushaq	phynam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 	errchkt  4 	; copy the nam$l_dev name into the file_name string$ 	movzbw	nam+nam$b_dev,file_name_desc6 	movc3	file_name_desc,@nam+nam$l_dev,@file_name_desc+4   	pushaq	file_name_desc 	pushaq	orgnam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 	errchkk  	 	brw	99$	c  ) 	; Stuff file name length into descriptoro( 20$:	movzbw	nam+nam$b_rsl,file_name_desc  0 	; The file name is all set up in file_name_desc/ 	; Stuff it into the DCL symbol 'PHY_FILE_NAME'w 30$:	pushaq	file_name_desc 	pushaq	phynam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 	errchk   . 	; Use $DISPLAY to get PPF file name concealed( 	bicb2	#<nam$m_noconceal>, nam+nam$b_nop 	$display	fab=fabt 	blbs	r0,40$ 	ret				; If it fails, exitw  ) 	; Stuff file name length into descriptor ( 40$:	movzbw	nam+nam$b_rsl,file_name_desc  0 	; The file name is all set up in file_name_desc/ 	; Stuff it into the DCL symbol 'ORG_FILE_NAME't 	pushaq	file_name_desc 	pushaq	orgnam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 	errchk?  2 	; Now grab the FID from the NAM block and convert/ 	; it to a filename using LIB$FID_TO_NAME, then / 	; stuff it into the DCL symbol 'FID_FILE_NAME'- 	-1 	; we're going to use buffer1, set the length in t  	; the descriptor to buffer_size6 	movab	buffer1,fid_name_desc+4		; make sure we have it$ 	movzbw	#buffer1_size, fid_name_desc/ 	; we are going to reuse the descriptor for theB 	; nam$t_dvi counted string % 	movzbw	nam+nam$t_dvi, file_name_descm 	beql	99$				; no FID, bail outS) 	movab	nam+nam$t_dvi+1, file_name_desc+4	    	pushaw	return_length  	pushaq	fid_name_descf 	pushaw	nam+nam$w_fidd 	pushaq	file_name_desc 	calls	#4,g^lib$fid_to_namel 	errchk   ) 	; Stuff file name length into descriptorr' 60$:	movzbw	return_length,fid_name_desc   0 	; The file name is all set up in file_name_desc/ 	; Stuff it into the DCL symbol 'FID_FILE_NAME'e 70$:	pushaq	fid_name_desc  	pushaq	fidnam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 99$:	ret 101$:	movl	#CLI$_UNDFIL,r0 	brb	99$  
 	.end	main   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:25:19 +0100"0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>8 Subject: Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants* Message-ID: <3B053EDF.91883389@uk.sun.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Dirk Munk wrote: > >r > > andrew harrison wrote: > >s > > > Paul Repacholi wrote:  > > > > : > > > > andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: > > > >- > > > > > Paul Repacholi wrote:  > > > > > >9> > > > > > > andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: > > > > > >j> > > > > > > > So what happens when you add proper SMP support,> > > > > > > > threads, kernel pre-emption, real-time, a proper< > > > > > > > JFS, resource management, hot plug support etc > > > > > >$) > > > > > > You would be half way to VMS." > > > > > >i	 > > > > >S6 > > > > > Since at least two of these capabilities are4 > > > > > so new to OpenVMS that they are still warm6 > > > > > from the sides of the mould it would be more8 > > > > > acurate to say that you would be where OpenVMS > > > > > has just got to. > > > >c. > > > > And what two would you be refering to? > > > >- > > >n7 > > > Actually I was wrong only one of them has made itt4 > > > into the current 7.3 release the other is TBD. > > >e > > > Hot plug is new to 7.3.  > > >f. > > > 7.3 still does not have a fully featured4 > > > JFS, you cannot for example expand filesystems3 > > > online, something that has been available for 3 > > > some time on other OS's. It has also only got@5 > > > the level of tunability that you have with mostH > > > JFS's in the 7.3 release.h > >nC > > As a matter of intertest, what in your opinion would be "expand$& > > filesystems online" in VMS terms ? > G > Referring to Chris Smith's reply, I suspect he might mean enlarging a8I > storage(raid?)-set without having to re-INITIALIZE the volume. However, I > I can't immediately conceive of how to accomplish the expansion withoutrD > disrupting the integrity of the data, VMS issues not withstanding. >   @ I mean enlarging a filesystem without having to take the volume ? offline or re-initialise it. Its a facility that both VxFS and p> Solaris UFS+ support, though UFS does lock the filesystem and = block any writes for about 60 seconds, the blocked writes do ( then finish.  < It isn't just a filesystem issue. The Logical volume manager9 needs to be able to add blocks of storage to the logical  ? unit it is presenting to the filesystem prior to the filesystem > being grown, the opposite if it is being shrunk which is also  possible with VxFS.b   Regardsn Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architectw   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:37:49 +0100o0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>8 Subject: Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants* Message-ID: <3B0541CD.17B93E27@uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > < > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:YB0jXkewPZHc@eisner.encompasserve.org....N > > In article <9dud6a$arv@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu > (David Mathog) writes: > > >> > > >iL > > > I'll second that.  Seems more like more Andrew FUD.  A lot of what you > doK > > > with "file system expansion" on Unix you do on VMS with logicals.  If  > > > you've already got > > >  > >mE > > What you can't do with this or bound volume sets, you can do withzL > > quotas.  File system expansion allows one to keep some unused disk spaceI > > and grow an existing partition and file system into that unused spaceiL > > when it runs out of space.  Setting quotas so the total useable space isI > > smaller than the disk provides the same capability, the user can thenc > > use more space." > >rL > > But I just never saw the purpose of denying the users access to the diskL > > space after it had been purchased.  What happens after you grow the UNIXJ > > file system or turn up the quota and the user runs out of space again,F > > but there is no more physical space?  Might as well deal with that > > question as the former.m > K > Which is exactly what file system expansion does when used in conjunctionaG > with a logical volume manager (or hardware RAID device) that allows ao? > logical volume to be expanded on the fly by adding new disks.O >   B Which is what I was refering to. All the LVM's that we support on ? Solaris allow you to add a new piece of storage to an existing l@ volume and then both major filesystems also allow you to expand  into it.     regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:42:43 +0100i0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>8 Subject: Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants* Message-ID: <3B0542F3.4B910B30@uk.sun.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----) > > From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]- >  > > andrew harrison wrote: > . > > > 7.3 still does not have a fully featured4 > > > JFS, you cannot for example expand filesystems3 > > > online, something that has been available fori3 > > > some time on other OS's. It has also only gotg5 > > > the level of tunability that you have with mostt > > > JFS's in the 7.3 release.p > C > > As a matter of intertest, what in your opinion would be "expandn& > > filesystems online" in VMS terms ? > L > I read him to mean that on other systems you can plug a new disk into, forM > instance, a RAID set, and get to use it. (without interrupting the host)  IeH > don't imagine VMS has lived without this feature, so at this point I'mN > assuming Andrew has bad information.  Not having RAID, I don't know for sure > :) >   B That isn't what I ment. Both Solaris DiskSuite and Veritas Volume @ manager let you add additional new disks or volumes created from@ new disks or found elsewhere to an existing volume. This can be C done dynamically without interupting the system, though you clearlyME need a storage subsystem than allows this. I wasn't however refering y to this directly.a  A I was refering to being able to expand the filesystem mounted on e; the new (and bigger) volume to use the whole of the bigger a" volume while the system is online.   Regardsc Andrew Harrisonu Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:12:28 -0500w+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>c8 Subject: RE: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variantsL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1E79@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerm Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");p 'd  d   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]i   > Christopher Smith wrote:  @ > > I read him to mean that on other systems you can plug a new  > disk into, for6 > > instance, a RAID set, and get to use it. (without  > interrupting the host)  Ie< > > don't imagine VMS has lived without this feature, so at  > this point I'm= > > assuming Andrew has bad information.  Not having RAID, I   > don't know for suret  D > That isn't what I ment. Both Solaris DiskSuite and Veritas Volume B > manager let you add additional new disks or volumes created fromB > new disks or found elsewhere to an existing volume. This can be E > done dynamically without interupting the system, though you clearlyoG > need a storage subsystem than allows this. I wasn't however refering . > to this directly.l  C > I was refering to being able to expand the filesystem mounted on e= > the new (and bigger) volume to use the whole of the bigger  $ > volume while the system is online.  K Well, I did say that you'd "get to use it" "without interrupting the host."rC Presumably it would be kind of useless unless it was covered by thetK filesystem. (not in all cases, but where RAID is involved, I can't think of H any otherwise)  When I spoke of using the disk, I did mean in the normal way. :)    Regards,   Chrisa   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 09:54:24 -0700( From: dbowman35@hotmail.com (Gary Morin)  Subject: Unexpected NCP behavior= Message-ID: <751244ed.0105180854.4cbb5a49@posting.google.com>t  ? Well I tried to turn DECnet on a 4000-60 I have that is alreadytD running UCX.  I ran netconfig.com and then executed the startnet.com and got an error on thee   set line sva-0 state onh  4 NCP INVPVA invalid parameter value, physical address  @ when I do a list line sva-0 I don't see anything like a physical address there.E The executor is running.  I did change the name of the box when I got E it but the SCSSYSTEM ID is ok with the DECnet address if found in onev of the old files and re-used.h  E Anybody have any ideas before I go try to debug decnet, boy it's been " a long long time since I DECneted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:41:22 -0400 ( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>$ Subject: Re: Unexpected NCP behavior+ Message-ID: <3B055EC1.A99C6D0C@bigfoot.com>s  4 Make sure you start DECnet **BEFORE** you start UCX.   Hamlyn   Gary Morin wrote:m  A > Well I tried to turn DECnet on a 4000-60 I have that is alreadysF > running UCX.  I ran netconfig.com and then executed the startnet.com > and got an error on thel >  > set line sva-0 state oni >s6 > NCP INVPVA invalid parameter value, physical address > B > when I do a list line sva-0 I don't see anything like a physical > address there.G > The executor is running.  I did change the name of the box when I got G > it but the SCSSYSTEM ID is ok with the DECnet address if found in onec > of the old files and re-used.  >iG > Anybody have any ideas before I go try to debug decnet, boy it's beeno$ > a long long time since I DECneted.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 13:43:03 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Unexpected NCP behavior3 Message-ID: <YwHjuUBjd5MI@eisner.encompasserve.org>"  h In article <751244ed.0105180854.4cbb5a49@posting.google.com>, dbowman35@hotmail.com (Gary Morin) writes:A > Well I tried to turn DECnet on a 4000-60 I have that is already F > running UCX.  I ran netconfig.com and then executed the startnet.com > and got an error on thee >  > set line sva-0 state onE > 6 > NCP INVPVA invalid parameter value, physical address >   F You generally can't start DECnet after some other protocol is running.H IF UCX is already running, it's already made use of the default physicalD address (the hardware address).  DECnet wants to change the physicalG address and UCX would be perfectly happy to use what DECnet wants, but =! DECnet can't change it afterward."  F Current versions of LAT and VMScluster are happy to have DECnet change6 addresses on them, and DECnet can start up after them.  C The easy way:  startup DECnet in systartup_vms.com before any othersE protocol, reboot.  The hard way:  stop all the other protocols, startr DECnet, then start the others.  @ SVA-0 is what the DECnet database is using to keep track of yourH Ethernet controller.  It should show up under NCP with "show known line"H and "show known circuit".  VMS probably has given it a name which starts' with E (under DCL show device command).	  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation1= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouplE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:39:46 GMTn From: adroso@home.com (ADR)  Subject: Re: VAX Acronym8 Message-ID: <3b04c344.5509219@news.jamison1.pa.home.com>  C I thought VAX was Virtual Address Transfer (with X being a "symbol"l for transfer).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:45:57 -0400f- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>  Subject: Re: VAX Acronym( Message-ID: <3B050B75.F8EF2E98@ohio.edu>  1 I always thought it was Vitual Address eXtension.   #                                 RDP     
 ADR wrote:  E > I thought VAX was Virtual Address Transfer (with X being a "symbol"P > for transfer).   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:59:01 GMTb& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Re: VAX Acronym> Message-ID: <988N6.264041$o9.39964718@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  I Virtual Address eXtension is what I have always heard.   The PDP was a 16N bit virtual address machine,J and the VAX was a 32 bit eXtension of that.  There were suggestions in the early days of variousaB acronyms for the 64 bit system, such as VAXX (and extension to the extension).9    9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageu' news:87d798kjue.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 1 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:I >A > > In articleE > > <72B7FB6FB4C3A040BF94CE49CBB356312C48B3@FDYEXC202.mgroupnet.com>,f= > > "Broerman, Jason M." <JMBroerman@MarathonOil.com> writes:	 >;5 > > Please post no MIME and no HTML to the newsgroup.o > >eE > > After wading through all the crap, I think I found your question:l > >c7 > > > Does anyone know what the VAX acronym stands for?  > >  > > Yes. >t$ > But no one has got it right yet... >e& > Hint, what was the first vax called? >e > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.	B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.J > Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,$ >   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:00:45 +0200e( From: "Bruin, J.M. de" <Bruin@WT.TNO.NL> Subject: RE: VAX AcronymC Message-ID: <2ABC8BB85FE5D411AC100008C7F37BC227D994@wt15.wt.tno.nl>c  1 Couldn't it have been: Virtual Address eXchange ?n   -----Original Message-----2 From: Richard D. Piccard [mailto:piccard@ohio.edu]  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 13:46 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp Subject: Re: VAX Acronym    1 I always thought it was Vitual Address eXtension.i  #                                 RDPa    
 ADR wrote:  E > I thought VAX was Virtual Address Transfer (with X being a "symbol"	 > for transfer).   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 08:36:17 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)# Subject: Re: VAX Acronym3 Message-ID: <Gt79MZ7HVtxE@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  m In article <hgv1e9.dum.ln@momsys.fuller.local>, "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com> writes:e0 > Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote: > : In article <72B7FB6FB4C3A040BF94CE49CBB356312C48B3@FDYEXC202.mgroupnet.com>, "Broerman, Jason M." <JMBroerman@MarathonOil.com> writes: > 6 > :> Does anyone know what the VAX acronym stands for? >  > : Yes. >  > Carl has been reincarnated!L >   D I'll take that as a compliment, but don't expect me to start filling1 my posts with insults and filterable terminology.e  D In the meantime, the correct answer has not only been posted several times, it's also in the FAQ.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationb= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:37:39 GMTd; From: "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com>e Subject: Re: VAX Acronym/ Message-ID: <gq33e9.kln.ln@momsys.fuller.local>   ( Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:1 : In article <hgv1e9.dum.ln@momsys.fuller.local>,r? :  "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com> wrote:-  1 :> Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:5 :> : In article G :> : <72B7FB6FB4C3A040BF94CE49CBB356312C48B3@FDYEXC202.mgroupnet.com>, u> :> : "Broerman, Jason M." <JMBroerman@MarathonOil.com> writes: :> >7 :> :> Does anyone know what the VAX acronym stands for?  :>  	 :> : Yes.r :>   :> Carl has been reincarnated!  3 : What's the matter, that's a good answer!  <smirk>o  I It was an excellent answer.  As a matter of fact, it was the only correct  answer posted so far.w   Carl would be proud.           Stui   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:17:23 -0400u  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: VAX Acronym4 Message-ID: <C2256A50.004D96CC.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  6 So you thought wrong. Probably won't be the last time. [Rhetorical Question Mode ON]i  + Why did you find it necessary to share yourh  miss-supposition with the world?   [Rhetorical Question Mode OFF]  $ Hey, so I'm having a bad morning....        ! Please respond to adroso@home.como   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.come cc:  Subject:  Re: VAX Acronym         C I thought VAX was Virtual Address Transfer (with X being a "symbol"  for transfer).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:19:09 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: VAX AcronymL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1805011019090001@user-2iveci9.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <gq33e9.kln.ln@momsys.fuller.local>, stufuller@usa.net wrote:  * > Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:3 > : In article <hgv1e9.dum.ln@momsys.fuller.local>, A > :  "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com> wrote:t > 3 > :> Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:  > :> : In article I > :> : <72B7FB6FB4C3A040BF94CE49CBB356312C48B3@FDYEXC202.mgroupnet.com>, n@ > :> : "Broerman, Jason M." <JMBroerman@MarathonOil.com> writes: > :> w9 > :> :> Does anyone know what the VAX acronym stands for?  > :> a > :> : Yes.r > :> r  > :> Carl has been reincarnated! > 5 > : What's the matter, that's a good answer!  <smirk>s > K > It was an excellent answer.  As a matter of fact, it was the only correctl > answer posted so far.   J In the forward of the "VAX Architecture Reference Manual, 2nd Edition", itI says, "The VAX acronym itself (which originally stood for Virtual AddressjC eXtension) clearly indicated a major design goal of the project: totF dramatically increase the address space of the popular PDP-11 computer architecture."   -- f Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:44:15 -0400i  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: VAX Acronym4 Message-ID: <C2256A50.00500C06.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   And as I originally wrote:  D From the VAX Architecture Handbook, Copyright 1981 Digital Equipment Corporation. All Rights Reserved:  O "The letters VAX suggest the premier feature of VAX computers - Virtual Addressn eXtention."e  P So now we have 2 editions of the handbook that confirm what it "originally stood for."u   What does it stand for, now?   P.S.  P I looked for it (albeit not line by line) in the FAQ and did not find it.  Where in there is it, please?y          3 rdeininger@mindspring.com on 05/18/2001 10:19:09 AMV  + Please respond to rdeininger@mindspring.comt   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comn cc:  Subject:  Re: VAX Acronyme        H In article <gq33e9.kln.ln@momsys.fuller.local>, stufuller@usa.net wrote:  * > Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:3 > : In article <hgv1e9.dum.ln@momsys.fuller.local>,hA > :  "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com> wrote:  > 3 > :> Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:y > :> : In articlecH > :> : <72B7FB6FB4C3A040BF94CE49CBB356312C48B3@FDYEXC202.mgroupnet.com>,@ > :> : "Broerman, Jason M." <JMBroerman@MarathonOil.com> writes: > :>9 > :> :> Does anyone know what the VAX acronym stands for?t > :> > :> : Yes.d > :>  > :> Carl has been reincarnated! > 5 > : What's the matter, that's a good answer!  <smirk>t >hK > It was an excellent answer.  As a matter of fact, it was the only correcta > answer posted so far.o  J In the forward of the "VAX Architecture Reference Manual, 2nd Edition", itI says, "The VAX acronym itself (which originally stood for Virtual Address C eXtension) clearly indicated a major design goal of the project: to F dramatically increase the address space of the popular PDP-11 computer architecture."   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:04:28 GMT-& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Re: VAX Acronym> Message-ID: <0SaN6.265183$o9.40081304@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>   From the VMS FAQ:o   snip>  VMS1.s% What is OpenVMS? What is its history?.K OpenVMS, originally called VMS (Virtual Memory System), was first conceivedmK in 1976 as a new operating system for Digital's new, 32-bit, virtual memory D line of computers, eventually named VAX (Virtual Address eXtension).	 <end snipd    search for the word  "extension"  - <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in messagen. news:C2256A50.00500C06.00@jklh21.valmet.com... >  >t > And as I originally wrote: >tF > From the VAX Architecture Handbook, Copyright 1981 Digital Equipment > Corporation. > All Rights Reserved: >iI > "The letters VAX suggest the premier feature of VAX computers - Virtuals Addressc
 > eXtention."i >iL > So now we have 2 editions of the handbook that confirm what it "originally stood  > for."' >m > What does it stand for, now? >a > P.S. > K > I looked for it (albeit not line by line) in the FAQ and did not find it.n Where  > in there is it, please?i >t >a >  >t >o5 > rdeininger@mindspring.com on 05/18/2001 10:19:09 AMo >d- > Please respond to rdeininger@mindspring.com  >  > To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.come > cc:  > Subject:  Re: VAX Acronymn >c >y >t >tJ > In article <gq33e9.kln.ln@momsys.fuller.local>, stufuller@usa.net wrote: >o, > > Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:5 > > : In article <hgv1e9.dum.ln@momsys.fuller.local>,eC > > :  "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com> wrote:e > >h5 > > :> Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:d > > :> : In article J > > :> : <72B7FB6FB4C3A040BF94CE49CBB356312C48B3@FDYEXC202.mgroupnet.com>,B > > :> : "Broerman, Jason M." <JMBroerman@MarathonOil.com> writes: > > :>; > > :> :> Does anyone know what the VAX acronym stands for?- > > :>
 > > :> : Yes.D > > :>" > > :> Carl has been reincarnated! > >h7 > > : What's the matter, that's a good answer!  <smirk>  > >rE > > It was an excellent answer.  As a matter of fact, it was the only0 correct  > > answer posted so far.e >gL > In the forward of the "VAX Architecture Reference Manual, 2nd Edition", itK > says, "The VAX acronym itself (which originally stood for Virtual AddressuE > eXtension) clearly indicated a major design goal of the project: to.H > dramatically increase the address space of the popular PDP-11 computer > architecture." >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comn >m >o >  >  >i >R >,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:45:59 -0400S, From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org> Subject: Re: VAX Acronym( Message-ID: <3B0551C7.54C57BA8@osfn.org>   In general, VAX-11   -mikeu   danco@pebble.org wrote:m > N > On 18 May 2001 00:42:49 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: > & > > ....what was the first vax called? >  > The first VAX was "Star?"  > And VMS was "Starlet?" >  > - Dane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:14:05 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coms Subject: RE: VAX AcronymD Message-ID: <OF0C804566.4F97017D-ON88256A50.005E980B@foundation.com>  C Isn't that when to VMS machines who are getting on really well swapi" addresses at the end of the night?   Shanes          < "Bruin, J.M. de" <Bruin@WT.TNO.NL> on 05/18/2001 05:00:45 AM  4 Please respond to "Bruin, J.M. de" <Bruin@WT.TNO.NL>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- cc:-   Subject:  RE: VAX Acronym:    1 Couldn't it have been: Virtual Address eXchange ?j   -----Original Message-----2 From: Richard D. Piccard [mailto:piccard@ohio.edu]  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 13:46 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: VAX Acronym    1 I always thought it was Vitual Address eXtension.t  #                                 RDPi    
 ADR wrote:  E > I thought VAX was Virtual Address Transfer (with X being a "symbol"  > for transfer).   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:12:57 -0700-! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coma Subject: Re: VAX AcronymD Message-ID: <OF3CA02E9C.89241110-ON88256A50.005E7476@foundation.com>  G PDP-11, RSTS/E, no VM. Shudder. The task builder was certainly (ahem) a ( learning experience for the young Shane.   ShaneM          8 john nixon <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> on 05/18/2001 04:59:01 AM  0 Please respond to john nixon <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc cc:    Subject:  Re: VAX Acronym     I Virtual Address eXtension is what I have always heard.   The PDP was a 16a bit virtual address machine,J and the VAX was a 32 bit eXtension of that.  There were suggestions in the early days of variousiB acronyms for the 64 bit system, such as VAXX (and extension to the extension).e    9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messaged' news:87d798kjue.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 1 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:n >i > > In articleE > > <72B7FB6FB4C3A040BF94CE49CBB356312C48B3@FDYEXC202.mgroupnet.com>,5= > > "Broerman, Jason M." <JMBroerman@MarathonOil.com> writes:: >e5 > > Please post no MIME and no HTML to the newsgroup.e > >aE > > After wading through all the crap, I think I found your question:. > > 7 > > > Does anyone know what the VAX acronym stands for?d > >u > > Yes. >a$ > But no one has got it right yet... >n& > Hint, what was the first vax called? >e > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.lB >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.J > Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,$ >   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:20:49 -0700t! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comr Subject: Re: VAX AcronymD Message-ID: <OF190C2FAD.905AFD1E-ON88256A50.005F2530@foundation.com>  I If none of the answers so far have been right, even though most were fromcJ usually very well informed people, would you care to supply the right one, please?    ShaneE          C "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com> on 05/18/2001e 05:37:39 AMo  G Please respond to "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com>"   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComS cc:a   Subject:  Re: VAX Acronym     ( Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:1 : In article <hgv1e9.dum.ln@momsys.fuller.local>,-? :  "Stuart R. Fuller" <stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com> wrote:t  1 :> Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:  :> : In articletF :> : <72B7FB6FB4C3A040BF94CE49CBB356312C48B3@FDYEXC202.mgroupnet.com>,> :> : "Broerman, Jason M." <JMBroerman@MarathonOil.com> writes: :>7 :> :> Does anyone know what the VAX acronym stands for?j :>	 :> : Yes.r :> :> Carl has been reincarnated!  3 : What's the matter, that's a good answer!  <smirk>   I It was an excellent answer.  As a matter of fact, it was the only correct- answer posted so far.    Carl would be proud.           Stu    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 18:32:35 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>N Subject: Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc- Message-ID: <87n18bhrr0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  # Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:"  J > It's all Intel's fault. They didn't put enough interrupts (IRQ's) in theM > x86 design, so they had to come up with a way of bolting on a whole load ofo  D You mean the totally f*** the whole interupt idea... And never fixedB it, even when they went to PCI. Btw, PCI can do vectored interupts' in the hardware, no IRQs needed at all.   M > devices on one IRQ. USB was a rather poor design for doing that. Of course,uI > being an Intel design, Microsoft got behind it and the rest is history.b  F > It does have one use. Mice. The sampling rate is much higher than onD > a PS/2 mouse. Combined with a high dot pitch (like, er, my 2000dpiF > Razer), it gives really fast, accurate control. Did I mention I play > Quake? :-)  F If you want a good mouse, you want the old method. Feed the quadratureA and button signals back to the video card. The Q pulses drive the8E cursor registers, so no SW attention needed till the cursor crosses aeE limit in the interupt registers. A click up or down latches the curor3C reg values to feed the lot to the SW layers. Sub usec response, andm no queuing delays at all.	   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov     ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 18:34:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>N Subject: Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc- Message-ID: <87itizhrn1.fsf@prep.synonet.com>g  + fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:@  A > Nowadays we have USB printers, scanners, modems, etc,,, at all.eC > It is the natural substitute of mouse and keyboard connectors....T   > Why not ?:  @ Oh? Can't see any in the VMS SPD, nor anything like 'all devices that conform to USB 2.0...'t  @ And, as I said, the small matter of money to replace the current pile of working gear.P   -- [< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov =   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:54:47 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>hN Subject: Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc( Message-ID: <3B050D87.2D28751@bbc.co.uk>   OK I'll bite  = Although not totally controlled by VMS, there was quite a loto  of it in the Zeus control system  ' http://www-zeus.desy.de/public/zeus.gif  http://www-zeus.desy.de/  C Main run control sequencing and slow control monitoring all on VMS.r> Several individual components control and trigger systems also
 controlledC byVMS. Mostly connected to custom electronics via transputer links.E  : they probably ripped it all out and put in Solaris by now.    --o6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uki  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:00:15 -0400l5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>-N Subject: Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc2 Message-ID: <9zcN6.522$fi2.12681@news.cpqcorp.net>  D Paul Repacholi wrote in message <87lmnwkk60.fsf@prep.synonet.com>... >      snip  C >But the question I have is "WHY??" What the hell would anyone saneaF >want USB for? Fire wire I can see being usefull, especially if it canB >run at the full speed. More and more vidio and audio stuff had it
 >built in. >y, >But USB? An answer out to cause problems... >n    I Let's seperate the implementation (USB - a true design by committee) fromu the requirements..  G The need for a simple means to connect generally low-speed devices to awI system without requiring built in connectors, or additional bus slots hasXK been around for quite a while.  We designed a couple at DEC a long time ago>H (like on the PRO-300) that never shipped.  Apple created their AppleTalkH bus.  We even shipped a "Common Desktop Bus" on some MIPS boxes.  USB is7 just an industry wide attempt to satisfy the same need.n  H One connector.  Daisy chain any number of useful desktop devices off it.J Mouse, KB, printer, scanner, fax, modem, whatever.  You don't need to by aJ 2nd parrallel port to plug in that second printer.  You don't need a modemD taking up a PCI slot, or worse - hardwired into the system making it obsolete in 6 months.t  I Cool idea.  But now people want to expand it to slightly higher-bandwidthiH devices as well, like hard drives, network connections, live cameras.  IG love feature creep.  If you can make it fast enough - why bother havingr *both* firewire and USB?  I The USB design itself on the otherhand is, ah, a good example of too manyeK chefs spoiling the broth.  But for the most part, it's only those of us whoiL have to write the software that talks to the devices and controller, and the2 system designers who have to see the ugly details.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:04:46 -0400n5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>>N Subject: Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc2 Message-ID: <nDcN6.523$fi2.12670@news.cpqcorp.net>  K A MS sound card on the DEC 2000 with the MMOV layered product will probably9> work.  You will need to run the ECU and manually configure it.    $ Michael Moroney wrote in message ...- >"Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> writes:C >3 >YH >>Hmmmm.... where can one find a list of supported sound cards for VMS ?> >>Are they all PCI only or are older architectures supported ?A >>(Unfortunately, I have a DECpc/AXP 150 (aka DEC 2000 Model 300)e? >> and a 4000VLC so this is probably an academic question %-(.)! >sF >The funny little sound card in an Alphastation 200 is just a clone ofJ >the ISA Microsoft Sound Card.  So the ISA Microsoft Sound Card will work. >eJ >As to your VS 4000 VLC, it has a sound driver built in.  Plug a telephoneK >receiver into the jack for one and you should hear the selftest tones nextrH >time you reset or powercycle it.  I don't know if there's an MP3 player@ >that runs on that sound device (SOA0: ?) though.  Probably not. >g >-Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:15:36 -0400a5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>mN Subject: Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc2 Message-ID: <ANcN6.524$fi2.12570@news.cpqcorp.net>  D Paul Repacholi wrote in message <87n18bhrr0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...$ >Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: >tK >> It's all Intel's fault. They didn't put enough interrupts (IRQ's) in thenK >> x86 design, so they had to come up with a way of bolting on a whole load  of > E >You mean the totally f*** the whole interupt idea... And never fixediC >it, even when they went to PCI. Btw, PCI can do vectored interuptsl( >in the hardware, no IRQs needed at all. >n    E IMHO this is not the reason for it.  It is to reduce the need to have L multiple connectors on the box, and a way to hot add plug and play low-speedJ devices - without having to build it into the system, use those shitty ISA" slots, or the expensive PCI slots.  F >> devices on one IRQ. USB was a rather poor design for doing that. Of course,uJ >> being an Intel design, Microsoft got behind it and the rest is history. >e    J USBs success is driven by Intel, and their placing it into the core logic.  G >> It does have one use. Mice. The sampling rate is much higher than onaE >> a PS/2 mouse. Combined with a high dot pitch (like, er, my 2000dpiyG >> Razer), it gives really fast, accurate control. Did I mention I play!
 >> Quake? :-)s >eG >If you want a good mouse, you want the old method. Feed the quadraturerB >and button signals back to the video card. The Q pulses drive theF >cursor registers, so no SW attention needed till the cursor crosses aF >limit in the interupt registers. A click up or down latches the curorD >reg values to feed the lot to the SW layers. Sub usec response, and >no queuing delays at all. >i    K I hate to say it, but while I thought they were cool at the time, quad miceoJ are not all that cool.  They were plagued by getting their internal wheelsL gummed up.  And frankly, mouse speed and resolution is pointless (someone 15I years or more ago summed it up "it's like drawing with boxing gloves on").H they are useful for point and click, but little more.  Frankly most miceI have been capable for *years* of higher resolutions, and shorter samplingeI intervals - nobody was interested enough in changing the rates from theire	 defaults.v  H The two stupidest things about USB is the fact that you get a continuousK stream of KB updates even when nothing is happening on the KB, and that theeI printer inteface was designed by 100 monkeys typing for a decade.  Others. have other pet peeves.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:24:50 GMTD From: matessman@yahoo.comt) Subject: vms time -> unix time conversiont. Message-ID: <3b04bf4a.29381715@news.erols.com>  > i have lots of binary data containing vms timestamps that i am@ migrating to a unix platform.  does anyone know where i can find0 vms-to-unix conversion algorithms or c routines?   thank you...   ...mike tessmanb matessman@yahoo.com    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 08:46:06 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis).- Subject: Re: vms time -> unix time conversions! Message-ID: <QXxIGbBRm5Z5@ludens>   J In article <3b04bf4a.29381715@news.erols.com>, matessman@yahoo.com writes:@ > i have lots of binary data containing vms timestamps that i amB > migrating to a unix platform.  does anyone know where i can find2 > vms-to-unix conversion algorithms or c routines? >  > thank you... >  > ...mike tessman9 > matessman@yahoo.com>   Here an example.           #include stdio #include stdlibw
 #include time: #include descrip #include ssdef #include starlet  - $DESCRIPTOR(ds1970,"1-jan-1970 00:00:00.00");r   __int64 date1970;B __int64 datenow; __int64 diffdate;    unsigned long  unixdate;  
 int main() {c$    sys$bintim ( &ds1970, &date1970);:    printf ("1970 in VMS time format: 0x%llX\n", date1970);    sys$gettim ( &datenow);@    printf ("actual time in VMS time format: 0x%llX\n", datenow);!    diffdate = datenow - date1970;0H    printf ("time differential in 0.1 microseconds: 0x%llX\n", diffdate);     unixdate = diffdate/10000000;  L    /* you MUST modified this time with local timezone differential factor */C    unixdate = unixdate - atoi(getenv("SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL"));   ?    printf("seconds ellapsed since 1970 (GMT): %d\n", unixdate);l?    printf("unix-like local time is %s\n", ctime( &unixdate ) );r   }d      I Adam Maulis              maulis@ludens elte hu         VMS system manager-H  .......................................................................H  VMS Competence Center                             VMS Szakertoi KozpontH  Eotvos Lorand University                  Eotvos Lorand TudomanyegyetemH  Budapest, Hungary                                              BudapestH  =======================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 17:59:58 +02008 From: holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)+ Subject: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question:! Message-ID: <$2zklHMrHyVk@ludens>8   Hi,F    7 	I have a few questions about a DEC VXT2000 Xterminal's  	hardware/firmaware/whatever.   / 	Perhaps not the right newsgroup, but I'll try.i  4 	If I'm informed right (am I?), it runs some kind of; 	VAX CPU (like the ones in some MicroVAXen?), but according.3 	to my experience, it either has a _very_ differento3 	firmware from that of normal VAXen, or it has somei9 	_very_ special hardware, that prevents it from operatinge: 	like a machine with normal MicroVAX CPU - wich is capable. 	of "executing" the READ_ADDR.SYS for example.  6 	Does anybody know some details about the architecture5 	of the VXT2000? Is it mentioned/described in the VAX 5 	Architecture Reference Manual (I don't have one :/)?   6 	Why I'm asking these silly questions: I had the idea,6 	of trying to boot VMS (yes :]) on a VXT2000 back half5 	a year ago. I've set up a VMS, to accept the VXT2000 ( 	MOP request, as it would be a satelite.  9 	Loading started just fine, but it frooze while executingu> 	NISCS_LOAD.EXE (it must have been a IPL 31 loop or something,; 	because the halt button on the back side of the VXT didn'tr5 	work - I wasn't able to get the PC or anything else)l  7 	I've tried with an InfoServer 1000 - same deep freeze.9: 	Same with READ_ADDR.SYS, wich should run on any VAX CPU -3 	- altough I doubt that the VXT's CPU is officially(
 	supported :]i  ; 	Any kind of information on the VXT hardware/firmware wouldx? 	be extremly helpfull. If anyone has some info - has eventuallyd3 	succeded in what I'm trying here - please tell me.M     Regards:			<Holi>  -- :H Holitska, Andras         holitska_a@ludens elte hu        junior managerG  ...................................................................... G  VMS Competence Center                            VMS Szakertoi KozpontaG  Eotvos Lorand University                 Eotvos Lorand TudomanyegyetemeG  Budapest, Hungary                                             BudapestsG  ======================================================================r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:32:34 -0400C, From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>/ Subject: Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question ( Message-ID: <3B055CB2.2484BF5C@osfn.org>   "Holi - Holitska Andrs" wrote:  > @ >         I have a few questions about a DEC VXT2000 Xterminal's& >         hardware/firmaware/whatever. > = >         If I'm informed right (am I?), it runs some kind of D >         VAX CPU (like the ones in some MicroVAXen?), but according  D I have not seen a VXT2000, but I do know that a VT1300 is basically C a VAXstation 3100 (with a CVAX chip.)  A 1300 can be upgraded 3100, - but I don't know if special ROM's are needed.   B The InfoServer 1000 does appear to be based on a CVAX chip, but it almost e certainly has special ROM code.t  * The VMS FreeWare CD contains the software:  C [VXT]                   VXT V2.1G X Terminal Software (for VXT2000,0 VT1300)t   It can be found at:e  6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/FREEWARE40/VXT/  G There is also VXT2000 documentation at the above location.  It implies s4 that the VXT does, in fact, have special boot ROMs'.  ? >         Why I'm asking these silly questions: I had the idea,h? >         of trying to boot VMS (yes :]) on a VXT2000 back half3> >         a year ago. I've set up a VMS, to accept the VXT20001 >         MOP request, as it would be a satelite.1  I If the InfoServer has an internal disk it can serve the VXT image to the o3 2000, and also use the same disk for page and swap.   @ BTW, what was the boot command that you entered on the VXT, what
 bootflags?   -mikeu   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 13:36:18 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0/ Subject: Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question,3 Message-ID: <DLOQ3ZKiXhbO@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  \ In article <$2zklHMrHyVk@ludens>, holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs) writes: > 6 > 	If I'm informed right (am I?), it runs some kind of= > 	VAX CPU (like the ones in some MicroVAXen?), but accordinga5 > 	to my experience, it either has a _very_ differento5 > 	firmware from that of normal VAXen, or it has some-; > 	_very_ special hardware, that prevents it from operating < > 	like a machine with normal MicroVAX CPU - wich is capable0 > 	of "executing" the READ_ADDR.SYS for example. >   E I don't know what's in my VXT, but DEC did produce a line a VAX chips@. optimized for VAXeln and those won't boot VMS.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupdE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:06:01 +0100a/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>e* Subject: re:  What is "legacy free system"7 Message-ID: <009FC312.FCB98C2E.30@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>e  N > I have heard some Compaq employees type "legacy free systems" in response to, > the questrties about USB/Firewire support. > 3 > What exactly do they mean "legacy free systems" ?   J Marketing spiel, there's probably no exact definition. Certainly none that, applies to all manufacturers using the term.  F Typically it refers to a PC (often a particularly compact PC) with oneM or more of the following not included: serial, PS/2 mouse and keyboard ports,wI floppy disk drive, AT bus slots, any other bus slots (graphics, ethernet  4 and often a winmodem integrated on the motherboard).  E The argument is that USB suffices to connect mouse, keyboard, printer-H and scanner devices, plus floppy, CDRW, modem ... if you need them. PlusJ no floppy removes one security problem. Plus simplified design is cheaper.  D My cynical view is that legacy-free PCs are designed my Microsoft toH make life as hard as possible for anyone who might later want to migrateG to Linux! (The Winmodem and no serial port being a particular bastard).eG They're also environmentally unfriendly, since a motherboard transplants? is usually impossible. Which also increases Microsoft's wealth,mD because its replacement will entail sale of another copy of windows.  N > OK, it is a given that I can't expect USB or Firewire on my all mighty Q-BUSN > Microvax II. But are there PCI based Alphas that are considered "legacy" and. > others not legacy ? What is the difference ?  E Don't think so. I'd hope that Compaq staff have now been forbidden torA combine "legacy" and ["Alpha" or "OpenVMS"] in the same sentence!   ? The Multia was a legacy-free Alpha, but it didn't sell well :-(    	Yours, 
 		Nigel Arnotm- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:46:27 GMTc= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system"00 Message-ID: <009FC2EE.BA2D93BD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <9e2002$8i7$2@odo.ecs.umass.edu>, Joe Heimann <heimann@nog.ecs.umass.edu> writes:4 >David Mathog <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote:_ >> In article <3B04381E.BDE73006@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  >>>mM >>>Which is harder: provide fakes serial port support via USB, or provide ther, >>>existing TTDRIVER on a real serial port ? > J >> I don't know.  But I do know that most of the UPS I've seen have to be G >> plugged into serial ports.  If the trend to USB and away from serialrN >> continues the UPS manufacturers will have to switch to USB too, and for theN >> more stupid UPS protocols, which depend on twiddling bits on a serial port,M >> that's going to be one wrenching transition.  Can you just imagine the funlM >> you'd have with a malfunctioning USB device on the same line as your UPS? oL >> Take a couple of pictures with your webcam and suddenly the lights go out >> on the computer.  Ugh.  >eI >At the consumer level, small office and home sized UPS's have been goingaI >towards USB for the serial connection instead of a RS-232 based one.  It2I >looks like some of the "PC centric" manufacturers are doing this so they@G >can sell to both the PC and Mac owners who want the ability to monitor H >power and auto-shutdown.  I have not heard if anyone has scoped out theH >signals being sent over the USB link yet, so have no idea how robust itH >will be against the kind of situation outlined.  Hopefully it will be a9 >bit more robust than the APC software on a serial line. B  J Which APC do you have?  Certain models do little more than change a signalJ level on a pin when on backup power to indicate a line failure.  Others doJ speak a more robust protocol and provide a wealth of statistics related toH the operation of the UPS.  As for "APC software"... That is an oxymoron.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             oO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.d   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 18:20:13 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system" - Message-ID: <87vgmzhsbm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   7 Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom> writes:r  # >     Answering two questions here.e  A > 1) Why USB for low speed devices like modems., keyboards, mice,lE > printers it works well.  With USB 2.0 and 480 MBits disks make somenD > sense.  VMS support is driven by the hardware groups desire to get3 > rid of the PS/2 ports, serial and parallel ports.S  E Is the hard ware group equally eager to pay for the replacment of alloF my WORKING serial/parallel-port/mouse-KB stuff? BTW, serial includes aE survey grade GPS, so put about $10K-$15K just for that... Rough guesscD is about $40K to replace the lot, not counting really odd ball stuff that is seldom used.  E It is so obviously a good idea. Look what a huge win the Desk-top BussB is. er, was. And the huge range of VMS supported 'stuff' that usesE USB... Extra function? does it mean we can plug in multiple KB, mice,3= and graphics cards and run multi-head easilly? I suspect not.   D > 2) Legacy free systems are those systems that have no PS/2, serial > and parallel ports.c  9 So what do I call a M600? Serial, but no //-port or PS/2?y  E >     If the hardware folks decide to use Firewire or decide there isn? > enough demand to add a Firewire controller then the O.S. willPE > eventually look at doing drivers for it.  But at the present time Ie; > know of no plans to include Firewire hardware in the O.S.s  G Adding Firewire would dd functions that are not presently there. Adding E USB is a stupid move, it adds nothing, but will require a huge amountd> of work in the field if serial and parallel ports are removed.   -- 4< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.f@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov 0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:15:47 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system"cL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1805011015470001@user-2iveci9.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <87vgmzhsbm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  9 > Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom> writes:d > % > >     Answering two questions here.  > C > > 1) Why USB for low speed devices like modems., keyboards, mice,tG > > printers it works well.  With USB 2.0 and 480 MBits disks make some F > > sense.  VMS support is driven by the hardware groups desire to get5 > > rid of the PS/2 ports, serial and parallel ports.u >  <...>   G > It is so obviously a good idea. Look what a huge win the Desk-top BusyD > is. er, was. And the huge range of VMS supported 'stuff' that usesG > USB... Extra function? does it mean we can plug in multiple KB, mice, ? > and graphics cards and run multi-head easilly? I suspect not.>  H VMS folks (Hoff and others, IIRC) have discussed this here in the past. H Reading between the lines, I think there will be some effort to make theC software support multiple KB and mice.  Multiple graphics cards areg already supported.  J A problem with USB KBs and mice seems to be that the cheapo commodity onesF tend not to have unique serial numbers in the firmware, which makes itD hard for a system to tell one from another.  The USB standard allows? (requires) serial numbers in firmware, but vendors cut corners.u  B Evidently the other problem with some devices is that they tend toC violoate the USB standard in various interesting ways.  Each randomnH commodity device is likely to need some special code in the driver which works around the device's bugs.s   > F > > 2) Legacy free systems are those systems that have no PS/2, serial > > and parallel ports.    I > Adding Firewire would dd functions that are not presently there. Adding G > USB is a stupid move, it adds nothing, but will require a huge amountr@ > of work in the field if serial and parallel ports are removed.  C I suppose there will be PCI adapters that add several serial and/oriG parallel ports.  I think some of the big alphas have already used theselH for consoles, and you add one for each galactic partition you need.  USB. to serial/parallel adapters are also possible.  G Probably the hardware folks will be forced into this.  When the PC stophH using legacy keyboards and mice, the chipsets that support them in alphaI systems will stop being cheap, and will eventually not even be available.   J Of course, if we have to get USB keyboards, there BETTER be some availableI with the standard VMS layout.  Or I'll be at the front of the mob with my- torch and pitchfork....w   -- . Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:54:10 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system" , Message-ID: <3B0553B1.C4D41E53@videotron.ca>   Nigel Arnot wrote:F > My cynical view is that legacy-free PCs are designed my Microsoft toJ > make life as hard as possible for anyone who might later want to migrate > to Linux!   J Unfortunatly, Apple pioneered legacy-free well before Microsoft/Intel. ButJ Apple's goal was to reduce the price of a Macintosh to be competitive withL Wintel. And it is called an Imac. It does have a built-in modem though whichS means that it has an emulated serial port (even though there are no physical ones).a  J Apple has never used serial ports for the mouse. It used to be a dedicatedK port, and Apple now uses USB. (Mouse plugs into a USB port on the keyboard,P% keyboard plugs into USB on the Imac).   L With the advent of the internet, the use of diskettes has greatly diminishedE as a means to exchange data. And you can get a ZIP drive for USB now.t  I Having a serial console port is still very important for a serious system;J though. The ability to route data (especially that spewed out during earlyJ boot sequence) is very important for sites that have machines in different1 buildings but orperated from a central location. 0  M The VMS engineers would have to work MUCH harder to find an acceptable serialoT port replacement for the console than to just provide a serial port on the machines.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:10:20 -0700i! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comx) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system" D Message-ID: <OFF7E1E914.E3A613B8-ON88256A50.005E3E11@foundation.com>  K You can get converters so you can plug conventional serial devices into USBtG hubs. Not ideal I know, but it's better than having to throw them away.e   Shane           E Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@k9.healthnet.com on 05/18/2001  03:20:13 AM   8 Please respond to Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>   Sent by:  prep@k9.healthnet.com      To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:e  * Subject:  Re: What is "legacy free system"    7 Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom> writes:r  # >     Answering two questions here.$  A > 1) Why USB for low speed devices like modems., keyboards, mice, E > printers it works well.  With USB 2.0 and 480 MBits disks make someeD > sense.  VMS support is driven by the hardware groups desire to get3 > rid of the PS/2 ports, serial and parallel ports.i  E Is the hard ware group equally eager to pay for the replacment of allfF my WORKING serial/parallel-port/mouse-KB stuff? BTW, serial includes aE survey grade GPS, so put about $10K-$15K just for that... Rough guessnD is about $40K to replace the lot, not counting really odd ball stuff that is seldom used.  E It is so obviously a good idea. Look what a huge win the Desk-top BustB is. er, was. And the huge range of VMS supported 'stuff' that usesE USB... Extra function? does it mean we can plug in multiple KB, mice,e= and graphics cards and run multi-head easilly? I suspect not.   D > 2) Legacy free systems are those systems that have no PS/2, serial > and parallel ports..  9 So what do I call a M600? Serial, but no //-port or PS/2?u  E >     If the hardware folks decide to use Firewire or decide there ise? > enough demand to add a Firewire controller then the O.S. willaE > eventually look at doing drivers for it.  But at the present time Ie; > know of no plans to include Firewire hardware in the O.S.h  G Adding Firewire would dd functions that are not presently there. AddingcE USB is a stupid move, it adds nothing, but will require a huge amountf> of work in the field if serial and parallel ports are removed.   --< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,"   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 13:23:39 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system"=3 Message-ID: <C3$qu4NUv3oI@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  \ In article <3B0553B1.C4D41E53@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Nigel Arnot wrote:G >> My cynical view is that legacy-free PCs are designed my Microsoft to>K >> make life as hard as possible for anyone who might later want to migrateo
 >> to Linux! 0 > L > Unfortunatly, Apple pioneered legacy-free well before Microsoft/Intel. ButL > Apple's goal was to reduce the price of a Macintosh to be competitive withN > Wintel. And it is called an Imac. It does have a built-in modem though whichU > means that it has an emulated serial port (even though there are no physical ones).1 > L > Apple has never used serial ports for the mouse. It used to be a dedicatedM > port, and Apple now uses USB. (Mouse plugs into a USB port on the keyboard,o' > keyboard plugs into USB on the Imac).s > N > With the advent of the internet, the use of diskettes has greatly diminishedG > as a means to exchange data. And you can get a ZIP drive for USB now.F > K > Having a serial console port is still very important for a serious systemiL > though. The ability to route data (especially that spewed out during earlyL > boot sequence) is very important for sites that have machines in different3 > buildings but orperated from a central location.   > O > The VMS engineers would have to work MUCH harder to find an acceptable serialdV > port replacement for the console than to just provide a serial port on the machines. -- oF ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group3E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingR   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:28:47 -0700c! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comk) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system" D Message-ID: <OF2919B421.C1AEFED8-ON88256A50.005FC2FB@foundation.com>  K That begs an interesting question. Are VMS layout keyboards still availableoI new? I'm stockpiling LK450-AA's - the PC guys here are kind enough to use D my desk as a "dumpster" occasionally when they throw an old one out.   Shanee          F rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) on 05/18/2001 07:15:47 AM  > Please respond to rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD cc:d  * Subject:  Re: What is "legacy free system"    < In article <87vgmzhsbm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  9 > Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom> writes:o >r% > >     Answering two questions here.  >eC > > 1) Why USB for low speed devices like modems., keyboards, mice,rG > > printers it works well.  With USB 2.0 and 480 MBits disks make somerF > > sense.  VMS support is driven by the hardware groups desire to get5 > > rid of the PS/2 ports, serial and parallel ports.e >g <...>0  G > It is so obviously a good idea. Look what a huge win the Desk-top BuspD > is. er, was. And the huge range of VMS supported 'stuff' that usesG > USB... Extra function? does it mean we can plug in multiple KB, mice,s? > and graphics cards and run multi-head easilly? I suspect not..  G VMS folks (Hoff and others, IIRC) have discussed this here in the past.aH Reading between the lines, I think there will be some effort to make theC software support multiple KB and mice.  Multiple graphics cards arew already supported.  J A problem with USB KBs and mice seems to be that the cheapo commodity onesF tend not to have unique serial numbers in the firmware, which makes itD hard for a system to tell one from another.  The USB standard allows? (requires) serial numbers in firmware, but vendors cut corners.u  B Evidently the other problem with some devices is that they tend toC violoate the USB standard in various interesting ways.  Each random H commodity device is likely to need some special code in the driver which works around the device's bugs.p   >uF > > 2) Legacy free systems are those systems that have no PS/2, serial > > and parallel ports.l  I > Adding Firewire would dd functions that are not presently there. AddingmG > USB is a stupid move, it adds nothing, but will require a huge amounth@ > of work in the field if serial and parallel ports are removed.  C I suppose there will be PCI adapters that add several serial and/or G parallel ports.  I think some of the big alphas have already used theseeH for consoles, and you add one for each galactic partition you need.  USB. to serial/parallel adapters are also possible.  G Probably the hardware folks will be forced into this.  When the PC stop	H using legacy keyboards and mice, the chipsets that support them in alphaI systems will stop being cheap, and will eventually not even be available.-  J Of course, if we have to get USB keyboards, there BETTER be some availableI with the standard VMS layout.  Or I'll be at the front of the mob with my  torch and pitchfork....D   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:26:46 -0400M5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system"z2 Message-ID: <0YcN6.526$fi2.12614@news.cpqcorp.net>    Get over it, and get used to it.  K The current crop of Alphas use the "standard" junk IO and ISA logic that is L found on any $600 PC.  Intel and MS (who drive the industry) are pushing forK all of this to go away.  To the point of embedding USB in their core logic.r5 It's all plug & play.  PCI (PCI-X), AGP, USB, PCMCIA.w    H Parallel ports and serial ports are available for both USB and PCI.  TheK "legacy free" systems will support USB and PCI, and for serial/parallel onenK or the other, and maybe even both.  There are even dongles on the market toiB hook up your PS2 mouse/kb to a USB if you are that attached to it.  H Firewire?  Why?  If USB speeds are pushed up high enough, AND the stupidL controller comes *free* in the Intel core logic - why would any manufacturerL of Intel PC's worry about Firewire?  Why would any device maker *not* put it7 on USB - since it will be on every new PC in the world.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:37:26 -0300y) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brh) Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system" L Message-ID: <OFF57337EA.2100EDC4-ON03256A50.00606717@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  A About keyboards ..... or operating systems input interfaces ... :   E - Is anyone thinking in change the Alphaserver keyboards (OpenVMS) byoE an IPAQ interface ? Imagine managing OpenVMS servers using a wirelessnH interface - having the ability to monitor the operating system remotely.D To give commands to OpenVMS just using a "pen"... or giving commands to Tru64, WNT, Linux, etc .....   B Ok, ok.. I gave you the idea, and  someone with strong programming
 backgroundC will patent my idea and earn milions of dollars in this product.....   Regardse   FC        2 Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com em 18/05/2001 14:28:47  - Favor responder a Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi      ) Assunto: Re: What is "legacy free system"e      K That begs an interesting question. Are VMS layout keyboards still availableyI new? I'm stockpiling LK450-AA's - the PC guys here are kind enough to use D my desk as a "dumpster" occasionally when they throw an old one out.   Shane           F rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) on 05/18/2001 07:15:47 AM  > Please respond to rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma cc:p  * Subject:  Re: What is "legacy free system"    < In article <87vgmzhsbm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  9 > Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom> writes:h >.% > >     Answering two questions here.e >eC > > 1) Why USB for low speed devices like modems., keyboards, mice,iG > > printers it works well.  With USB 2.0 and 480 MBits disks make somerF > > sense.  VMS support is driven by the hardware groups desire to get5 > > rid of the PS/2 ports, serial and parallel ports.i >3 <...>r  G > It is so obviously a good idea. Look what a huge win the Desk-top BuseD > is. er, was. And the huge range of VMS supported 'stuff' that usesG > USB... Extra function? does it mean we can plug in multiple KB, mice, ? > and graphics cards and run multi-head easilly? I suspect not.i  G VMS folks (Hoff and others, IIRC) have discussed this here in the past.nH Reading between the lines, I think there will be some effort to make theC software support multiple KB and mice.  Multiple graphics cards arer already supported.  J A problem with USB KBs and mice seems to be that the cheapo commodity onesF tend not to have unique serial numbers in the firmware, which makes itD hard for a system to tell one from another.  The USB standard allows? (requires) serial numbers in firmware, but vendors cut corners.   B Evidently the other problem with some devices is that they tend toC violoate the USB standard in various interesting ways.  Each random:H commodity device is likely to need some special code in the driver which works around the device's bugs.-   >-F > > 2) Legacy free systems are those systems that have no PS/2, serial > > and parallel ports.   I > Adding Firewire would dd functions that are not presently there. AddingrG > USB is a stupid move, it adds nothing, but will require a huge amountc@ > of work in the field if serial and parallel ports are removed.  C I suppose there will be PCI adapters that add several serial and/or G parallel ports.  I think some of the big alphas have already used thesefH for consoles, and you add one for each galactic partition you need.  USB. to serial/parallel adapters are also possible.  G Probably the hardware folks will be forced into this.  When the PC stoptH using legacy keyboards and mice, the chipsets that support them in alphaI systems will stop being cheap, and will eventually not even be available.s  J Of course, if we have to get USB keyboards, there BETTER be some availableI with the standard VMS layout.  Or I'll be at the front of the mob with mys torch and pitchfork....    -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 13:39:48 -05007 From: hamilton@encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)t5 Subject: Re: What is "legacy free system" re: LK450'sa3 Message-ID: <4qTOCv7UtZvP@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  	 Hi Shane,m  Y Yes, the latest incarnation of LK-450 is LK-461; just ordered one from COMPAQ @ $75.00USDe   Brad  i >In article <OF2919B421.C1AEFED8-ON88256A50.005FC2FB@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:f > M > That begs an interesting question. Are VMS layout keyboards still available K > new? I'm stockpiling LK450-AA's - the PC guys here are kind enough to use F > my desk as a "dumpster" occasionally when they throw an old one out. >  > Shaneh >  >  >  >  > H > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) on 05/18/2001 07:15:47 AM > @ > Please respond to rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) >  > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn > cc:r > , > Subject:  Re: What is "legacy free system" >  > > > In article <87vgmzhsbm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi  > <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: > : >> Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom> writes: >>& >> >     Answering two questions here. >>D >> > 1) Why USB for low speed devices like modems., keyboards, mice,H >> > printers it works well.  With USB 2.0 and 480 MBits disks make someG >> > sense.  VMS support is driven by the hardware groups desire to get 6 >> > rid of the PS/2 ports, serial and parallel ports. >> > <...>t > H >> It is so obviously a good idea. Look what a huge win the Desk-top BusE >> is. er, was. And the huge range of VMS supported 'stuff' that usesbH >> USB... Extra function? does it mean we can plug in multiple KB, mice,@ >> and graphics cards and run multi-head easilly? I suspect not. > I > VMS folks (Hoff and others, IIRC) have discussed this here in the past.,J > Reading between the lines, I think there will be some effort to make theE > software support multiple KB and mice.  Multiple graphics cards are4 > already supported. > L > A problem with USB KBs and mice seems to be that the cheapo commodity onesH > tend not to have unique serial numbers in the firmware, which makes itF > hard for a system to tell one from another.  The USB standard allowsA > (requires) serial numbers in firmware, but vendors cut corners.e > D > Evidently the other problem with some devices is that they tend toE > violoate the USB standard in various interesting ways.  Each randomeJ > commodity device is likely to need some special code in the driver which! > works around the device's bugs.  >  >>G >> > 2) Legacy free systems are those systems that have no PS/2, serialt >> > and parallel ports. > J >> Adding Firewire would dd functions that are not presently there. AddingH >> USB is a stupid move, it adds nothing, but will require a huge amountA >> of work in the field if serial and parallel ports are removed.t > E > I suppose there will be PCI adapters that add several serial and/or I > parallel ports.  I think some of the big alphas have already used thesefJ > for consoles, and you add one for each galactic partition you need.  USB0 > to serial/parallel adapters are also possible. > I > Probably the hardware folks will be forced into this.  When the PC stopoJ > using legacy keyboards and mice, the chipsets that support them in alphaK > systems will stop being cheap, and will eventually not even be available.e > L > Of course, if we have to get USB keyboards, there BETTER be some availableK > with the standard VMS layout.  Or I'll be at the front of the mob with my  > torch and pitchfork....l >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com  >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 18:25:24 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: [PATHWORKS-32] What is the future ?- Message-ID: <87r8xnhs2z.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  , eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:   > What I'd like to see is: > 2 > 1a) eXcursion sold as a standalone product again   Kermit   > 1b) eXcursion for free   Kermit  , > 2a) PowerTerm sold as a standalone product > 2b) PowerTerm for free	 See aboveo  C > 2c) a good/supported JAVA based terminal emulator included in VMSu > (via CSWS)  F Why? Do you want the JVM written in 1620 GOTRAN on an emulation, on anC emulation of a 360 running on DOS in PCWIN? Or do you want one that F works quickly and is highly responsive? Anyone who wants to praise theE wonders of JAVA implementations is invited to post an existance proofo that runs on all VMS systems.t   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:22:42 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o0 Subject: Re: [PATHWORKS-32] What is the future ?8 Message-ID: <1st9gt8tsqbh4ovpqc6ku40honqra3f6nu@4ax.com>  C On 17 May 2001 19:45:59 +0200, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER). wrote:  J >I recently heard of the end of PATHWORKS-32 (you know, the DECnet and LATE >stack for Win32 clients, plus a Terminal Emulator PowerTerm525, plusw >a X11 server eXcursion).   E At www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks32/  there is no mention of end ofbB life and it talks of future releases. Where did you here about its end?  F >As the TerminalEmulator and the previously sold as standalone productG >eXcursion got included to PATHWORKS-32 just to keep the product of any G >or broader use (after Windows got a useable IP stack not so long ago),o# >this is of no real surprise to me.. >pJ >BUT: I always found the PowerTerm and eXcursion good (enough) and cheaperH >as products from the competion (like eXceed, PCXware, Reflection-X, ...D >or SmartTerm, KEAterm, Reflection, ...) so I don't like the idea ofG >paying more money (to the competition) in the future, only because DEQo >decides this way. >o >What I'd like to see is:1 >D1 >1a) eXcursion sold as a standalone product againo >1b) eXcursion for free  >o+ >2a) PowerTerm sold as a standalone productr >2b) PowerTerm for freecM >2c) a good/supported JAVA based terminal emulator included in VMS (via CSWS)  >r >Any comments ?!   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 18 May 2001 15:09:33 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)0 Subject: Re: [PATHWORKS-32] What is the future ?* Message-ID: <3b051f0d$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  ` In article <1st9gt8tsqbh4ovpqc6ku40honqra3f6nu@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:K >On 17 May 2001 19:45:59 +0200, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote: K >>I recently heard of the end of PATHWORKS-32 (you know, the DECnet and LAToF >>stack for Win32 clients, plus a Terminal Emulator PowerTerm525, plus >>a X11 server eXcursion). >uF >At www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks32/  there is no mention of end ofH >life and it talks of future releases. Where did you here about its end?  2 DECUS Symposium in Berlin/Germany (Brad was there)  J As I understand it, they _discuss_ the end (Note: the end of PATHWORKS-32,L but NOT the end of Advanced Server - ASOVMS will continue, its functionalityN will extend, will/may also run on VAX, so that PATHWORKS V6 may/will also end)L If we as customers tell them otherwise (which also means, buy newer versionsH if they finally come out) they will delay/avoid the end of PATHWORKS-32.  D If nobody cares and writes, the end of PATHWORKS-32 comes true soon. So. you've got to tell them !   K I won't, because I only need eXcursion. And this only until we replaced allrJ Win32 clients with LINUX (which will probably/unfortunately never happen).  ; btw: I don't see how Kermit is a replacement for eXcursion.aE It is however a very good replacement for PowerTerm, but I prefer not:E installing any additional software on the M$ clients, so a JAVA based6I downloadable good terminal emulator would be my favorite. I so far didn'tlO hear of some good emulators. Any recommendations (except Q should provide one)?e   -- k< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888n< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:42:01 -0500 : From: "Scandora, Anthony \(35048\)" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov>0 Subject: Re: [PATHWORKS-32] What is the future ?+ Message-ID: <9e3jav$s8j$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>   9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageB' news:87r8xnhs2z.fsf@prep.synonet.com...o. > eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes: >  > > What I'd like to see is:4 > > 1a) eXcursion sold as a standalone product again > Kermit/ Kermit is a terminal emulator, not an X server.n   > > 1b) eXcursion for free > Kermit5 Kermit 95 costs $64.  See http://kermit.columbia.edu/s  . > > 2a) PowerTerm sold as a standalone product > > 2b) PowerTerm for free > See aboveE See http://www.ericom.com/  E > > 2c) a good/supported JAVA based terminal emulator included in VMSa > > (via CSWS) >tH > Why? Do you want the JVM written in 1620 GOTRAN on an emulation, on anE > emulation of a 360 running on DOS in PCWIN? Or do you want one thattH > works quickly and is highly responsive? Anyone who wants to praise theG > wonders of JAVA implementations is invited to post an existance proof  > that runs on all VMS systems.e >nI Don't forget that Charon VAX runs faster on a sub-$1000 PC than most realaE VAXes.  We've come a long way since 1620 emulation, and Java bytecodesH emulation, though inherently slower than direct execution, is impressiveE technology.  I read the original post as a request for Windows clientdE software, not VMS.  I do not have the motiviation to write one, but IeH suspect that a good terminal emulator could be written in Java, and evenK with the JVM overhead, I wouldn't worry about a 933MHz PC keeping up with a2H VMS terminal driver.  Being able to click on a VMS web server's terminalH emulator and run it on a client PC without installing any software could only be good for VMS.   1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541p scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.274 ************************