1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 23 May 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 284       Contents: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq9 Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com 9 Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com , Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun, Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun Re: 7.2-2 availability7 Active Directory Add-on for Win9x and NT4 and VMS Samba $ Re: Adding new 36 GB disk to VMS 6.2 Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  RE: Affordable VMS Workstations ( Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?( Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?( Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?( Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS? Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  Re: comp.os.vms archives ? Re: comp.os.vms archives ? Re: comp.os.vms archives ?$ Could BACKUP suppress PATHWORKS ACE?( Re: Could BACKUP suppress PATHWORKS ACE?( Re: Could BACKUP suppress PATHWORKS ACE? Cry for help here... Re: Cry for help here... Re: Cry for help here... Re: Cry for help here... DEC/EDI Users group  Re: DSSI problem/ Re: ESC characters being eaten by parallel port 9 FW: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com = Re: FW: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com 2 help: -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full6 Re: help: -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full# High Performance Server Advertising - Re: Hobbyist DECNET License (was: VMS<->RSTS) , How to store results of Command in a symbol?0 Re: How to store results of Command in a symbol?0 Re: How to store results of Command in a symbol?0 Re: How to store results of Command in a symbol?0 Re: How to store results of Command in a symbol?> Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?> Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?> Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass? looking for odd item Re: Mozilla 0.9  Re: Mozilla 0.9  Re: Mozilla 0.9  Re: Mozilla 0.9  MS-Fawning at Compaq Re: Oracle x NATO  Re: Oracle x NATO  Re: Oracle x NATO  Re: Oracle x NATO  Re: Oracle x NATO . Re: Oracle x NATO (revenge and boycott Oracle). Re: PC compiler pricing (was: Promotions at Q) Re: PGP revisited " Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing Re: Recognising a LAT Service ! Re: savesets not exceeding 650 MB ! Re: savesets not exceeding 650 MB ! Re: savesets not exceeding 650 MB  SPAWN vs. system() in C. Re: SPAWN vs. system() in C. Re: sys$trnlnm/ Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants - Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff? 1 RE: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff? 1 Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff? 1 Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff? 1 Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff? 1 Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?   Re: VAX motif V1.2-6 kit problem  Re: VAX motif V1.2-6 kit problem  Re: VAX motif V1.2-6 kit problem Re: VMS 5.5-2h4 and y2k  Re: VMS 5.5-2h4 and y2k E Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc 2 Website white paper questions (DEC/EDI and others?6 Re: Website white paper questions (DEC/EDI and others?) Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ? ) Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ? ) Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ? ) Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ? ) Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ? ) Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ? ) Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ? ( Will OpenVMS 6.2 support 18 & 36GB disks7 Re: [DCPS] Page accounting for color laser PS printers? 7 Re: [DCPS] Page accounting for color laser PS printers? 7 Re: [DCPS] Page accounting for color laser PS printers? 7 Re: [DCPS] Page accounting for color laser PS printers? ' [TCPIP V5.1 ECO 1] RSH crashes system ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:37:00 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> ! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq , Message-ID: <3B0B689C.B47638E4@infopuls.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > - > Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  > F > > At the Technical Update I asked one Compaq representative why theyF > > didn't copy SUN's strategy in the UNIX market segment because thisH > > strategy seems to work much better than their own.  Answer: we don'tA > > want to have competition with our M$ based product line. Very ' > > strange answer to my understanding.  > F > Strange? It's just what I would expect. But he is wrong, most of theE > VMS people I know would deal with anyone else for PC before Compaq. % > So there is no competition there :)    This is really a bad thing! @ But I found the answer especially strange because I thought that? in the UNIX market you normally don't compete with Wintel boxes > against SUN. The companies I know of decide first if they want< to use UNIX or Wintel and then look where to buy. To offer a8 decent low and midrange choice would to my understanding= increase the pressure on SUN. And from what I see what Compaq > already has to develop and deliver that kind of systems is not$ that difficult/expensive for Compaq.? I told Terry Shannon about this (in fact he was present but the > talk was in German) and agreed and said that from his point of@ view as a share holder this no-strategy in the UNIX market is no good for anything.? I personally think that some words of explanation are necessary  from the side of Compaq.   > C > "We are losing money on each one, but we will make up for it with  > higher volumes." >  > Yeah, that's the one...  >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.J > Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,$ >   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:24:29 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq 8 Message-ID: <cjsmgtcrjq9vvtce7ptvb82upeo7bo5a89@4ax.com>  2 On Wed, 23 May 2001 00:51:19 +0200, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:     > >At the Technical Update I asked one Compaq representative why; >they didn't copy SUN's strategy in the UNIX market segment @ >because this strategy seems to work much better than their own.< >Answer: we don't want to have competition with our M$ based7 >product line. Very strange answer to my understanding.   C Translation: We would rather fill Microsoft's pockets than our own. C Recall that Compaq actually lost money on low end PCs last quarter. D Every single additional PC sale they made increased their loss. They0 would much rather this than make money it seems.  @ I have no doubt that there are now some Compaq senior managementF behind VMS (probably including Capellas) but I also have no doubt that> there are some others who will knife VMS (and Tru-64) at avery
 opportunity.    A I am a little surprised that someone still made the statement you  report in public though. -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 16:15:14 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) B Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com, Message-ID: <9egnmi$2p4l$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  : In article <wnDO6.546$zl5.447997@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,7  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  |> |> Dear Sir, |>  O |> It is your privilege to boycott anything you choose to boycott. But advising H |> other Compaq customers to eschew a mechanism that you personally findE |> offensive or "inappropriate" is, at best, a questionable practice.    Huh??   G I regularly recommend against using products, services and companies in G many fields of endeavor.  I also recommend other products, services and A companies for use.  In the computing field, its a part of my job. G Expressing one's opinion  hardly seems to be "a questionable practice". E We all do it every day.  I guess it just depends on whose ox is being  gored.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:39:07 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>B Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com; Message-ID: <LIRO6.2268$zl5.754333@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:9egnmi$2p4l$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...< > In article <wnDO6.546$zl5.447997@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,9 >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > |> > |> Dear Sir, > |>H > |> It is your privilege to boycott anything you choose to boycott. But advisingJ > |> other Compaq customers to eschew a mechanism that you personally findG > |> offensive or "inappropriate" is, at best, a questionable practice.  >  > Huh??  > I > I regularly recommend against using products, services and companies in I > many fields of endeavor.  I also recommend other products, services and C > companies for use.  In the computing field, its a part of my job. I > Expressing one's opinion  hardly seems to be "a questionable practice".   K Indeed. Expressing one's opinion is in no way a questionable practice. IMHO L boycotting a communications/feedback channel is inconsistent with expressingH an opinion. Absent a better mechanism, www.compaqworkinggroup.org is the3 only channel available to the Compaq customer base.   L Note that this concept worked well more than a decade ago when the DECUS VAX> SIG sponsored the SIR (system improvement request?) mechanism.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:00:15 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun 8 Message-ID: <5evmgtc03svqa3b5m68tmmlh2mj8kajo6d@4ax.com>  4 On Wed, 23 May 2001 01:21:35 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   >>G >> According to Webster's New World Dictionary, the _first_ meaning for E >> "boycott" starts with "to join together in refusing to deal with". A >> It is the group action that is intended to get their attention & >> (since nothing else has succeeded). > H >Exactly. The point being, refusing to take advantage of a communicationL >channel (flawed as it may be) will gain no attention. Even the logical nextA >step (voting with one's feet) is unlikely to get much mindshare.   B I know you understand this point but I have to re-iterate that oneD sometimes wonders if it is *worth* the effort to try and communicateA with a company which likes to keep its ear close to the Microsoft E noise generator.  The biggest single reason to be confident about the F mid-term future of VMS is that the VMS technical group understands theB scalability problems of Windows NT from a technical point of view.E Something Compaq management probably do not. Winkler at one point was D definitely under the impression that you could just throw processorsF at Windows and off it would go. The huge amount of work to improve theC scalability of VMS in V7.3 and later has to be done for NT and, now ? that Compaq have pulled the plug (on Alpha/NT), who will do it?   E Thus part of Compaq's VMS growth strategy is based upon the VMS group E having more knowledge of the future than Compaq's management. That;'s D a recipe for problems down the line and is why I have suggested that7 VMS present technical update days to Compaq management.   C And, as to a boycott, it has been proved recently that one way (and C unfortunately perhaps the only way) to get Compaq senior management C attention is to have them fear that current customers will stampede 
 elsewhere.  E By the way, I haven't got mine yet due to a cock-up somewhere but the @ photo on the front of the VMS 7.3 carton and manuals shows a guy= looking at monitors all with the Sun logo... There has been a C suggestion to keep this out of c.o.v. but I really don't see how it E can be covered up forever so I'll do the dirty - whoever's fault this E was. I know DII COE is effectively Sloaris compatibility but I didn't ) realize it stretched as far as the logos!    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:02:08 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 5 Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun L Message-ID: <OF3AAF8F8E.229E96EF-ON03256A55.003BEBE2@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  D It is not a question of software quality anymore ! Everybody in this
 newgroup know J OpenVMS as the "Best Operating System of the World" - but it dont generate revenues....  J When a company buy WNT or Unix,  they must buy: backup software, Tivoli or BMC,G and a lot of stuff to mantain the systems working - it generates $$$$$.   F OpenVMS is independent of it .... in fact we dont need these amount of products to J manage  OVMS servers .... what means, OpenVMS dont generate $$$$ for other
 products !  K And why Linux ? Linux is free, or IBM, Compaq, HP dont need to waste $$$ to  develop E and mantain a Unix... and in fact Linux is the future of  Unix or the  possibility real convergence... I There are 5 great Linux companies I know: Red Hat, Suse, Caldera, etc ... J It is less than the 20 linux running in different machines. Lets count, if I remember: 8 Solaris, IRIX, AIX, Tru64, UNICOS, HP-UX, ...... + a lot  F SAP is a way of convergence, but it runs in Unix or WNT what means the needs of buyt thousand of products.   REgards    FC         Regards    FC        6 Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> em 23/05/2001 07:00:15  1 Favor responder a Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       5 Assunto: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - or perhaps to Sun     4 On Wed, 23 May 2001 01:21:35 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   >>G >> According to Webster's New World Dictionary, the _first_ meaning for E >> "boycott" starts with "to join together in refusing to deal with". A >> It is the group action that is intended to get their attention & >> (since nothing else has succeeded). > H >Exactly. The point being, refusing to take advantage of a communicationG >channel (flawed as it may be) will gain no attention. Even the logical  nextA >step (voting with one's feet) is unlikely to get much mindshare.   B I know you understand this point but I have to re-iterate that oneD sometimes wonders if it is *worth* the effort to try and communicateA with a company which likes to keep its ear close to the Microsoft E noise generator.  The biggest single reason to be confident about the F mid-term future of VMS is that the VMS technical group understands theB scalability problems of Windows NT from a technical point of view.E Something Compaq management probably do not. Winkler at one point was D definitely under the impression that you could just throw processorsF at Windows and off it would go. The huge amount of work to improve theC scalability of VMS in V7.3 and later has to be done for NT and, now ? that Compaq have pulled the plug (on Alpha/NT), who will do it?   E Thus part of Compaq's VMS growth strategy is based upon the VMS group E having more knowledge of the future than Compaq's management. That;'s D a recipe for problems down the line and is why I have suggested that7 VMS present technical update days to Compaq management.   C And, as to a boycott, it has been proved recently that one way (and C unfortunately perhaps the only way) to get Compaq senior management C attention is to have them fear that current customers will stampede 
 elsewhere.  E By the way, I haven't got mine yet due to a cock-up somewhere but the @ photo on the front of the VMS 7.3 carton and manuals shows a guy= looking at monitors all with the Sun logo... There has been a C suggestion to keep this out of c.o.v. but I really don't see how it E can be covered up forever so I'll do the dirty - whoever's fault this E was. I know DII COE is effectively Sloaris compatibility but I didn't ) realize it stretched as far as the logos!V   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:46:22 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>p Subject: Re: 7.2-2 availabilityo) Message-ID: <3B0BA30E.8C32BDF4@bbc.co.uk>a   John Santos wrote:  * > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Hoff Hoffman wrote:J > >   The former option works wonders for backporting new OpenVMS features% > >   to older releases, I might add.M > >b	 > >   :-)i >nD > You mean when you really, really want to use an new VMS feature inC > some app, but you can't get permission from the powers that be to E > upgrade VMS, do a stealth install, then set the version number backpB > so no one knows?  I categorically deny ever having done anythingG > like this.  No.  Oops!  I may have accidently misled you there.  Yes.s >    John  M this is the sort of thing that really scares those "powers that be". However,sK it did also occur to me as an interesting possible use of that command :-)..     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:53:45 -0600 4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>@ Subject: Active Directory Add-on for Win9x and NT4 and VMS Samba0 Message-ID: <5uOO6.28$VD1.78322@news.uswest.net>  G If I install the Active Directory Add-on for Win9x and NT4 SP6a, will I J still be able to connect to my VMS Samba v1.19p4 server?  The Samba server is a member server only.   -- Thanks,o
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 01:32 CDTi' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)n- Subject: Re: Adding new 36 GB disk to VMS 6.2o- Message-ID: <23MAY200101320257@gerg.tamu.edu>   . vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) writes...C }I'm adding new 18GB and 36GB disks to VMS 6.2. The last time I did G }this in 94, there was something special to do to move from 500 MB to 4   }GB when initializing the disks. } F }Will OpenVMS 6.2 support 18/36 GB disks and is there anything specialF }when initializing them or backup/image/noinit to ensure they are 18GB< }or 36GB disks rather than reverting back to 4 GB paritions? } 	 }Regards,e }victor.mendham@emergis.como  ? As far as VMS is concerned there are no partitions, just disks.e  A It will support disks up to a size that is way beyond anthing you E will actually be able to buy for at least a few more years (somethinghF like 2 petabytes, or 2 million gigabytes, based on the maximum clusterF size and maximum number of clusters allowed). In theory. Newer versionB of VMS better support 3rd party disks than older ones. Version 6.2B has pretty good support (a variety of changes happened in 6.2 thatB makes it better than earlier versions). There is some, fortunatelyF small, chance that any specific 3rd party disk just won't work withoutE upgrading to a newer version of VMS (or you could return the disk and-D try a different brand and/or model). But it will probably just work.C Any disk that Compaq sells you as being compatible will, of course,eG work (but cost a lot - at least twice the commodity price, and probablye more than 3 times).   C The /NOINIT on the restore is a good plan. Initialize them manuallyO4 with a set of characteristics that is good for them.  : With VMS 6.2 you will have to use relatively large cluster< factors (more recent versions of VMS, starting at about 7.2,@ alleviate this problem). For a 36GB disks this will be a minimum> of somthing like 68 blocks per cluster (with VMS V7.2 or newer< you could go all the way down to 1 block per cluster at this; size and stay there on up to something near 270GB). I wouldn< suggest going with the minimum unless it is going to be usedA for data storage where you are certain that the files will mostly- be very large. -  C The default settings for the number of preallocated file headers issD woefully inadequate in almost all cases. Check to see how many filesE are actually on your current 4GB disk and extrapolate to get a numberBB for how many you expect to have on your 36GB disk and then specifyD that value for the /HEADERS=x qualifier on the INIT. (The default isF only 16. You will probably put way more than 16 files on a 36GB disk.)  G Picking a bigger value for the /DIRECTORIES=x qualifier (which controlsnF how many blocks are allocated for the 000000.DIR file, which gives youI pre-allocated top level directory space) might not be a bad idea either -sC it also defaults to 16. Check you current disks for the size of therD 000000.DIR file and make a guess. A value larger than 16 is probablyF not uncommon, but it may well be less than your cluster size (in which+ case you shouldn't have to worry about it).   E These last two things will go a long way to reducing fragmentation ofiD some important files. Another thing that can help is to set a fairlyF large /EXTENSION=blocks. (Unlike the other things above which can onlyE be set durring initialization, this one can be changed after the fact . and on the fly with a SET VOLUME/EXTENSION=x.)  B There are other things you can fiddle with, but you probably don't= have to (technically, you don't *have* to do any of the othergF fiddling up above - but you might not enjoy the results if you don't).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:45:21 +0000 (UTC)l' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)C( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations+ Message-ID: <9egie1$nfn$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>i  _ In article <3B0ACEB8.2F550275@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes: 2 >Here's my take on this "affordable VMS argument." > D >Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see VMS workstations on everybody's >desk...F >It's strengths are known to most of us here... I want to say that off >the= >get-go so there's no mistaking what I really feel about VMS.  >pI >But I don't think Compaq would be wise to try to build, market, and selle >a $1K# >VMS workstation... And here's why.e >< >rH >First, If such a workstation were to be produced, it would be competingE >head-to-head with the WinTel platform....  Now, any businessman will2
 >tell you,B >to succeed in breaking into a market, you have to "build a better
 >product at aaI >better price." OK... Knowing that, this $1K workstation would need to doeF >EVERYTHING that the average WinTel workstation can currently do. WordI >processing, Spreadsheets, surfing, etc. It would have to do these thingsnC >faster, more reliably, more efficiently than the current platform. 
 >PLUS....  inr   No. N You don't build a $1K VMS workstation you build a $1K Alpha box which can run  VMS and LINUX !!  = Your mass market is a 64 bit LINUX box with better compilers. > The competition between Windows and Linux is already occuring.G Compaq needs to have a competitively priced Alpha box for running LinuxyN otherwise Linux will eventually end up running 99.9999 % of the time on Intel.O Compaq must not repeat the same old Digital mistakes and think that because thetN Alpha chip is 64bit and has better floating point performance that Linux Alpha( workstations can be priced at a premium.  N If Compaq produces such a box then it makes sense to also let it run VMS (and  Tru64).k  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:02:05 -0500e+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>o( Subject: RE: Affordable VMS WorkstationsL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1E8F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  I Well, as I first started reading this, my thought was that this is likelylH the most well thought-out argument against the affordable VMS thing I'veG heard.  My next thought was that on reading further, it isn't really anaH argument against it.  I do, nonetheless, have a couple of counterpoints.     > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Lyndon Bartels [mailto:lbartels@pressenter.com]s  : > But I don't think Compaq would be wise to try to build,  > market, and sell > a $1K $ > VMS workstation... And here's why. >  > @ > First, If such a workstation were to be produced, it would be  > competingsF > head-to-head with the WinTel platform....  Now, any businessman will   [snip]  G > EVERYTHING that the average WinTel workstation can currently do. Wordn> > processing, Spreadsheets, surfing, etc. It would have to do  > these thingsD > faster, more reliably, more efficiently than the current platform. > PLUS....  in  J I believe the "faster, more reliably, more efficiently" would be intrinsic in a VMS workstation.n     [snip]  ? > etc.) And finally there'll be the argument. "I've got all my s
 > stuff on mym > PC! Ii> > can't switch." To answer that question, there would have to  > be migration > toolsr( > so that people can move their data....  : Ahh yes. :)  Migration tools may not be difficult, though.   [snip]  @ > Is all of this possible? Dern tootin! Technically all of these > requirements areG > possible. BUT, it would take a huge, long-term commitment on Compaq'ss	 > part toa9 > invest in hardware designers, software developers, and e > marketing to get > thisE > all ramped up and ready to go... This would all take time. A LOT ofm
 > time. A LOTu
 > of money...n  G Are you saying that it would be bad for Compaq to have a huge long-term % commitment to the VMS/Alpha platform?t  $ > Finally, what gain would there be?  = > You're entering into a market where the profit margins are . > narrower theng > theuF > microns measuring the latest chip technology. Compaq is feeling that > crunchF > right now on their current market. And we're hoping to persuade them > make? > things possibly worse by introducing another competitor into r
 > that market  > placetF > to compete not only against the DELLs and GATEWAYs of the world, but	 > against-, > their own Intel hardware! Extremely risky.  K What does Compaq have to lose by competing against their own Intel hardwarea7 again?  They make the profits from the sale either way.g  J At any rate, that's assuming that they're competing with the Intel market,K which they're not unless you can play unreal on them. :)  What about Apple?eK They manage to keep a large chunk of marketshare producing something that'siH fundamentally incompatible with the common peesee trash.  That must show@ that there are people who don't mind the pc compatibility thing.   [snip]  H > many of us here..... But what about the average Joe? I don't think so. > To getE > that average citizen out there to think about buying the $1K alpha,  > Compaq@ > would have to advertise, advertise, advertise. They'd have to  > commit todC > continued advancement of the hardware and software for many, manyr	 > months,*  J Again, you seem to be saying that a commitment from Compaq would be bad -- am I missing something?s  > > probably three or four years to get firmly entrentched into 
 > the market.- > LookC > how long it has taken AMD to ramp up to compete head-to-head witht > Intel.... Andd? > that's only the CPU. They've made it easier on themselves by n > being able > to use? > the same operating system and applications. And it has taken u
 > them years.r  E AMD probably is a bad metaphor here.  I think more along the lines ofoK Apple/Motorola, as above.  You must admit that for some reason, more people J want to pay a premium to buy their (not very compatible) stuff from Apple.? There may be something in that; I only wish I knew what it was.a  ; > Look how long it has taken Linux to work itself into the t > public mind. Ifp > you H > go down to your neighborhood Best Buy, Comp USA, Circuit City, or what
 > ever youF > have near you... How many pieces of sofware are out there for Linux?  G Do you really want me to count them?  No, you can't get many at CircuitrL City, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.  After all -- think AppleL again, and tell me how many bits of Macintosh software you can get at one of. those places?  Note Apple's marketshare again.   > You'd have@ > to expect the same type of uphill struggle for any Alpha based > workstation.  I Well, yes, if the Alpha workstation didn't already have an OS (or three),vI and some (not all that's needed, but some) decent software, I'd agree. :)I   [snip]  > > But what would I suggest. Compaq should look really closely 
 > at aquiringe	 > Novell. H > Then, they could port the Novell technology onto the alpha processor..	 > The TPS G > numbers on Alpha are so good, with globs of memory and oodles of diskm > spacep@ > that the hardware already has the ability to connect to, they  > would makeF > excellent Novell servers. Next Groupwise is a much better Enterprise > wide mail H > system server than Exchange/Outlook.... If that were ported over to an > alpha platform... COOL!!!!  F CP/M is a better enterprise wide mail system than Exchange/Outlook. :)   [snip]  D > Windows NT in the form it is now. But I digress a little. With the
 > addition ofsD > Novell, Compaq would strengthen it's hold on what they're good at. > "Being the > Server for the Enterprise."p  I Great if it works, but Novell doesn't have much pull in the market, theseeK days.  I imagine it would be as difficult to do this as getting the averagexJ bonehead to buy a VMS workstation, and it would benefit all of the current customers less, AFAICT. :)  G > Build the server agents so that Novell, and Windows client can access E > all information on the VMS servers as well, and thing get even more  > powerful and flexible.  E Since when does allowing a windows client to access anything count asuI "powerful and flexible?"  Ok, I admit I'm picking on windows here, but itEH really is trash.  It wouldn't count as adding power or flexibility in my book.2   [snip]  H > over the low-end market. Go ahead and struggle to turn a profit on theH > desktops.... Your machines will only be glorified paperweights if they > can't F > share their data. If they can't talk to one another. That's where we
 > come in and  > show you how it's done."  G That's great if Compaq can make the rest of the industry dependant uponaI themselves.  I don't know of a way to do that.  Most people are trying toaJ muddle by with peesee stuff and wouldn't know what they're missing anyway. That would be a very hard sell.n  ! > But back to the workstation....f  H > I think a $2K to $3K workstation would be a good idea. A machine, that	 > doesn'taF > necessarily have to have the latest and greatest EVxx processor. But > somethingwG > pretty good. The 500au I'm writing this at right now is good startingo > place.H > It has more than enough power for my needs. Both for my personal needs
 > at home,@ > and my professional needs at work. It has proven excellent at  > aiding me  > in > managing my servers.   I completely agree there.S  H > The apps are still a bit behind. On the personal side; It needs a good   Yep.   [snip]  > > Remember what DPWS stands for "Digital Personal/Professional > WorkStation."i  E > If Compaq were to "cheapen" it down to $1K, I fear the quality thato
 > makes us sooE > proud to VMS advocates would be lost and DPWS would stand for "Dern7
 > Piece of& > Whimpy/Worthless Shhhh.... Schtuff!"  I I think that it could be done -- just the hardware, mind you -- for $1k -m 1500.M   [snip]  G > less. Also, keep things standard. Keep things simple. Don't muddy theh > watersH > with upteen configurations. A straight pedestal, PCI slots, "standard"	 > memory,e > etc.   Yep.   [snip]  G > type of platform. Developers, System Managers, Power users, Help Desk F > Associates. These are professional, capable people. Not game players
 > that can: > only ask "What button do I push?" Or "Where do I click?"  F Thanks to bill it's getting pretty bad.  I'll assume that when you sayH developers, power users, help desk, system managers, etc... you mean the8 real ones, but the world doesn't know the difference. :)   [snip]  E > To produce this type of platform would cost less, and have a better 	 > definedn; > market. For this, marketing would have an easier sell. A y > clearer tarket > to aim > at.o  G How about all those people who dropped DEC stuff for less expensive Sunr	 hardware?a  E > Is it a business risk? Yes, but far less, because the investment ise > less, and1 > the profit margin is higher.  G > Again, figure out what you're good at, and stick with it! Digital was-	 > good at0> > making enterprise solutions. Compaq's finally figuring that 
 > out. Now...f > stick: > with what you're good at.k  D It seems that you're arguing for Compaq not to attempt to make theirF platform into a home peesee type machine with a pointy-clicky boneheadJ interface, office apps, stupid users, etc.  You'll get no argument from meJ on that.  Compaq should simply make their platform affordable, and let theI users decide what to do from there.  I would be more than happy with thati step.    Regards,   Chris.  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developeri Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");v 's   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 07:52:11 GMT From: System@nospam.coml1 Subject: Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?e* Message-ID: <9efq7b$vjl$1@news.netmar.com>  L In article <rdeininger-2205012307470001@user-2iveats.dialup.mindspring.com>,  4 Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> writes: >tF >Marc Krellenstein, CTO of NorthernLight, spoke at today's AlphaServerE >Diamond Forum.  NorthernLight does sell their indexing and searchingnJ >software to corporate customers, and it does run on (only) VMS.  They canH >index html or just about any other data format.  No idea what it costs. ---8<--   M Thank you all for your responses (and sorry for the stupid anonymous address.vD Our policy does not allow forum postings under a Corporate account)./ I will check and evaluate all of the responses.-  M Does this mean that noone around developped a more powerful search tool than c( the DCL Search facility? I am surprized.  H I just copied the FREEWARE CD v4 onto a VMS disk and browsed through it. No more success.   Now, a question:M Assuming you take over a system management position and the previous folk hasmI left very far away without easy ways to communicate, what would you do toi know/ what is where on your brand new cluster system?i  % $ type/page [*...]*.com on all disks?i   SM  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----iM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsfI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postspL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:06:10 +0100l- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>i1 Subject: Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?r) Message-ID: <3B0BA7B2.B7463C3E@bbc.co.uk>    System@nospam.com wrote:   >  Now, a question:yO > Assuming you take over a system management position and the previous folk hasrK > left very far away without easy ways to communicate, what would you do tor > know1 > what is where on your brand new cluster system?v >i' > $ type/page [*...]*.com on all disks?n >   L $ show queue/all/full/page/out=queues.txt ! take a log for future reference.6 $ show system ! look for any "nonstatndard" processes.  $ mcr sysman start show database) $ type/page sys$startup:systartup_vms.com  $ show network $ show cluster   are a few that come to mind :-)I   >l > SM >mQ >  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----wO >   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupstK >    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsaN > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.h   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 08:14:38 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162 (Wayne Sewell)f1 Subject: Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?r. Message-ID: <y2HBEDdrTN8m@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  o In article <1chV3Uj+$ifh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: G > In article <9eas1p$adq$1@news.netmar.com>, System@Manager.com writes: < >> Is there a product similar to Altavista/PC to build a VMSA >> documents database that could be searched by keywords, please?w > C > The software that NorthernLight uses for their search engine runsaD > on VMS.  I have no idea what is required for loading it with data,* > and it is certainly a high-end solution.  M But is it a product that someone else could acquire?  I had always gotten the O impression that Northern Light ran on custom software.  I certainly never heard A anyone say they were using product X to implement their engine.  o  L This guy sounds as if he wants to set up his own search engine and wants the6 actual software.  I doubt he can get what NL is using.     --  O ===============================================================================eM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxi: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)hO ===============================================================================eK Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!!CO    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!a   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 10:12:52 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162 (Wayne Sewell) 1 Subject: Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?,. Message-ID: <6biiRwLELLBb@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  n In article <y2HBEDdrTN8m@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162 (Wayne Sewell) writes:q > In article <1chV3Uj+$ifh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:lH >> In article <9eas1p$adq$1@news.netmar.com>, System@Manager.com writes:= >>> Is there a product similar to Altavista/PC to build a VMS-B >>> documents database that could be searched by keywords, please? >> oD >> The software that NorthernLight uses for their search engine runsE >> on VMS.  I have no idea what is required for loading it with data,i+ >> and it is certainly a high-end solution.e > O > But is it a product that someone else could acquire?  I had always gotten thetQ > impression that Northern Light ran on custom software.  I certainly never heard C > anyone say they were using product X to implement their engine.    > N > This guy sounds as if he wants to set up his own search engine and wants the8 > actual software.  I doubt he can get what NL is using.    L I stand corrected.  According to another post in this thread, apparently the: Northern Light software *is* obtainable for others to use.   -- iO ===============================================================================oM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxi: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== K Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!!-O    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:40:42 GMTF  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> Subject: Re: Backup to CD?8 Message-ID: <njbngt8lshq02uj95f79njeuqq3jqglve7@4ax.com>  # On Tue, 22 May 2001 07:59:38 -0300,u* fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  ' >Dont worry about backups anymore .....e >nH >IBM developed a 400 GB HD ! What means ? We have a Symmetrix with 24 TB >with a lot ofI >"small disks" .... We should have a smaller hardware if these disks werea >developed one yeart >ago.... > H >And with the IBM + Compaq joint venture in storage, we can have a small >storageworks cabinetk  >with a few (???) terabytes .... >  >Regards >h >FCr >a  E While I'll go along with the large capacity for purposes of backup, I @ have grave reservations about anything larger than 4 or 9 GB forF performance.  You just don't get enough additional speed in the largerB drives to account for the additional I/O load that they'll requireD (i.e., 18GB of data will result in about 2X the I/O rate as your 9GB drives).  F Just remember that you need to look at more than storage capacity when8 sizing the number of real spindles you put on the floor.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:48:21 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: Backup to CD?H Message-ID: <OF424E995D.F9839306-ON80256A55.0045BC11@qedi.quintiles.com>  D Within the limits of your data the less you have on-line the better.  I You still have to back stuff up for disaster recovery purposes (your dataeK are your business.  No data == no business).  The bigger the disk farm theniJ the more disk capacity you'll probably have to back up (whether it be on aI full daily or an incremental basis since incrementals still require fulls. at some point)  G Bigger capacity to be backed up means either more tapes per backup or aaF bigger backup device.  Using a disk as the backup target is not alwaysG feasible since you still have to physically mount it somewhere and theneK mount it on a VMS system to restore it.  Have just one disk and you'll havehD a restore bottleneck from that disk whereas multiple tapes can go inJ multiple drives or multiple systems (how many have replicated a system for9 test purposes by restoring a recent set of backup tapes?)a   Steve.   jlsue commented: >>>rE While I'll go along with the large capacity for purposes of backup, I @ have grave reservations about anything larger than 4 or 9 GB forF performance.  You just don't get enough additional speed in the largerB drives to account for the additional I/O load that they'll requireD (i.e., 18GB of data will result in about 2X the I/O rate as your 9GB drives).  F Just remember that you need to look at more than storage capacity when8 sizing the number of real spindles you put on the floor. <<<i   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 00:47 CDTp' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)a# Subject: Re: comp.os.vms archives ?t- Message-ID: <23MAY200100474851@gerg.tamu.edu>.  k In article <3B0A7438.32CC501E@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes...  }Jean-Francois Marchal wrote:q* }> I'm looking for archives of comp.os.vms? }> Used to use deja, but I don't like the new google rewamping.t< }> Does anybody know any search tool that could give a whole  }> thread in one single search ? } C }There are archives for more than 10 years, but nothing searchable.y } @ }It would be relative easy to setup a searchable archive. I have" }sometimes speculated a bit on it. }  }Arnet  B Huh? Either you two are not asking for what I think you are asking? for, or you have slipped into an alternate universe (or maybe IeC have slipped into one with a better post-google Deja than you got).   A "Deja-google" is searchable and you can get the whole thread. (OfoB course, determining what constitutes a "thread" is a whole 'notherE kettle of fish. But they do actually do it based on some definition -y; probably using the actual reference data from the headers.)t   For example:I 1) Go to www.deja.com (and get redirected to the current goggle address).o% 2) Click on the comp. heirarchy link.o" 3) Click on "next 30 groups" link. 4) Click on comp.os.* link.h 5) Click on comp.os.vms link..C 6) Click on "Search only in comp.os.vms" button that is right belowl.    the search text box at the top of the page.B 7) Enter text in search box, like say "incremental backup" to findA    threads on the relatively recent changes to backup and the waysC    it often grabs tons more stuff than it used to in an incrementalh
    backup.C 8) On the list of articles presented, at the right hand side of theAB    last line of each snippet there is a "View Thread (N articles)"C    type link. Click that link and you get the full thread that that,D    article is part of. If you do this for the first article that the@    above search lists as a match, you get the text of 6 articles    in that thread.  ? You can probably leave out some of the earlier steps but I find @ this to be the easiest way to restrict the search to the desired@ newsgroup (in lieu of actually remembering any "in search" group? restriction commands to do it from the front page, if there aree@ any - I havn't checked the instructions since Google took over).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:37:30 +0200.= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> # Subject: Re: comp.os.vms archives ?i) Message-ID: <3B0B68BA.57EB223D@gtech.com>s   Carl Perkins wrote: m > In article <3B0A7438.32CC501E@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes...t > }Jean-Francois Marchal wrote:o, > }> I'm looking for archives of comp.os.vmsA > }> Used to use deja, but I don't like the new google rewamping.s> > }> Does anybody know any search tool that could give a whole" > }> thread in one single search ? > }tE > }There are archives for more than 10 years, but nothing searchable.  > }wB > }It would be relative easy to setup a searchable archive. I have$ > }sometimes speculated a bit on it. > D > Huh? Either you two are not asking for what I think you are askingA > for, or you have slipped into an alternate universe (or maybe IwE > have slipped into one with a better post-google Deja than you got).e > C > "Deja-google" is searchable and you can get the whole thread. (Of D > course, determining what constitutes a "thread" is a whole 'notherG > kettle of fish. But they do actually do it based on some definition -a= > probably using the actual reference data from the headers.)i  D The original poster said, that he did not like the Google interface.  E I have no problems with it, but I tried to answer the question asked.y  * The biggest issues with Google in my view:   - they only go back to 1995l3   - AFAIK it is not possible to download everything    Arne   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:32:00 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl># Subject: Re: comp.os.vms archives ? J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105231526050.12223-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  # On 23 May 2001, Carl Perkins wrote:o  4 >+In article [...]<arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes... >+}Jean-Francois Marchal wrote:t, >+}> I'm looking for archives of comp.os.vmsA >+}> Used to use deja, but I don't like the new google rewamping.r    You may check:a3 http://www.geocities.com/tsca.geo/various/deja.html   6  Someone creates it for "your" reason :) and from time" to time I send the address here :)  > >+}> Does anybody know any search tool that could give a whole" >+}> thread in one single search ? >+} E >+}There are archives for more than 10 years, but nothing searchable.W [...] D >+Huh? Either you two are not asking for what I think you are asking5 >+for, or you have slipped into an alternate universei    Definitely the last :)M [...description...] A  Only if you found info-VAX mail(s) from gs@gleto2.gliwice.edu.pl 2 you can start to say that here is some old info ;)  > AFAIK in past was available a MAILSERVER with search function;   I am not know if is still "on".    Regards - Gotfryd   -- sE ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 08:36:58 GMT From: System@nospam.como- Subject: Could BACKUP suppress PATHWORKS ACE? ) Message-ID: <9efsra$f9$1@news.netmar.com>h  J I have received a saveset with documents which were unreadable because of J embedded Pathworks ACE. I found this because the $ dir/sec command told me so.a  ! I went to the release notes here:Y@ http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6534/6534pro_010.html  E and found that the ACE could be displayed with a dump/header command.s I got this:    Access Control List0L     (UNKNOWN=%X80,SIZE=%D163,FLAGS=%X0C00,ACCESS=%X06900000,DATA=%X00000008,F     %X00000000,%X0000041E,%X33C84100,%X9D420000,%X95C34A16,%X2A73009F,F     %X2A7385BB,%X2A7385BB,%X057585BB,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,F     %X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X369D0000,F     %X2B2D0101,%X00800300,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,F     %X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%XF4420000,%XF4420248,F     %X00000248,%X00008000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,     %X00000000,%X00000000)  J Now, instead of doing a set acl/del=all *.* on my files, do you know of anL easy way to tell BACKUP to restore the files without any ACE? A command suchK like the /by_owner=parent would exactly do what I wish but it actually does  notc0 deal with ACE (or I missed something somewhere).   SM  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----vM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsiI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postseL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:53:37 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>1 Subject: Re: Could BACKUP suppress PATHWORKS ACE? + Message-ID: <9eg1b1$ndg@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>p  H <System@nospam.com> wrote in message news:9efsra$f9$1@news.netmar.com...  L > Now, instead of doing a set acl/del=all *.* on my files, do you know of an? > easy way to tell BACKUP to restore the files without any ACE?n  
 /INTERCHANGE.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:39:38 -0400i  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com1 Subject: Re: Could BACKUP suppress PATHWORKS ACE?v4 Message-ID: <C2256A55.0044CD8F.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  > Backup/interchange will among other things not copy the ACL's.B Files restored from such a saveset will of course be without them.: This is to keep security from the source system from being< improperly imposed on the target system.  You should be able" to use this to solve your problem.  9 Hint:  You may need to restore, back up with /INTERCHANGEN and re-restore.i   ===========o   HELP BACKUP /INTERCHANGE   BACKUP     /INTERCHANGE        Command Qualifier  B      Directs BACKUP to process files in a manner suitable for dataF      interchange (software distribution) by excluding information thatC      would prevent other utilities or sites from reading the BACKUPe      save set.  >      The effects of the /INTERCHANGE qualifier are as follows:  9      o  Directories not selected as files are not copied.t  ,      o  Access control lists are not copied.  =      o  Block size on magnetic tape is limited to 8192 bytes.n  E      o  Normal error recovery is used to write magnetic tapes so that <         no bad records exist on the resulting magnetic tape.            + System@nospam.com on 05/23/2001 04:36:58 AMs  # Please respond to System@nospam.comc   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:a. Subject:  Could BACKUP suppress PATHWORKS ACE?        I I have received a saveset with documents which were unreadable because of J embedded Pathworks ACE. I found this because the $ dir/sec command told me so.w  ! I went to the release notes here:d@ http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6534/6534pro_010.html  E and found that the ACE could be displayed with a dump/header command.N I got this:o   Access Control List,L     (UNKNOWN=%X80,SIZE=%D163,FLAGS=%X0C00,ACCESS=%X06900000,DATA=%X00000008,F     %X00000000,%X0000041E,%X33C84100,%X9D420000,%X95C34A16,%X2A73009F,F     %X2A7385BB,%X2A7385BB,%X057585BB,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,F     %X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X369D0000,F     %X2B2D0101,%X00800300,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,F     %X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%XF4420000,%XF4420248,F     %X00000248,%X00008000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,%X00000000,     %X00000000,%X00000000)  J Now, instead of doing a set acl/del=all *.* on my files, do you know of anL easy way to tell BACKUP to restore the files without any ACE? A command suchK like the /by_owner=parent would exactly do what I wish but it actually doesd notS0 deal with ACE (or I missed something somewhere).   SM  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----nM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups I    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postssL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:27:16 GMTg- From: "Sotos Patistas" <spatistas@djginc.com>s Subject: Cry for help here...e; Message-ID: <E0OO6.20199$G5.4143187@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>   J We have a DEC 4000-100 system running Open VMS 5.0 and today for the firstK time, after a restart, it asks for a language choice, and then performs allaL system tests down to #3, says tests complete and leaves off at a >>> prompt.J At this point typing in "login" returns the message  "password utility notL enabled" and everything else I've tried gets the response "unknown command".  8 I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions anyone can offer.   Sotos Patistas	 DJG, Inc.b Williamsburg, VA   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:58:23 GMTe- From: "Sotos Patistas" <spatistas@djginc.com>-! Subject: Re: Cry for help here...T; Message-ID: <PtOO6.20204$G5.4154747@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>l  8 Problem solved.  I can see now that it was pretty basic.  + Many thanks to all who responded via email.n    8 "Sotos Patistas" <spatistas@djginc.com> wrote in message5 news:E0OO6.20199$G5.4143187@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...tL > We have a DEC 4000-100 system running Open VMS 5.0 and today for the firstI > time, after a restart, it asks for a language choice, and then performs  allmF > system tests down to #3, says tests complete and leaves off at a >>> prompt.ML > At this point typing in "login" returns the message  "password utility notD > enabled" and everything else I've tried gets the response "unknown	 command".  >a: > I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions anyone can offer. >i > Sotos Patistas > DJG, Inc.i > Williamsburg, VA >  >d   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:00:22 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>! Subject: Re: Cry for help here...pJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105231451400.12223-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  * On Wed, 23 May 2001, Sotos Patistas wrote:  L >+We have a DEC 4000-100 system running Open VMS 5.0 and today for the firstM >+time, after a restart, it asks for a language choice, and then performs allfN >+system tests down to #3, says tests complete and leaves off at a >>> prompt.  E  Och, you console accu batery "has enought" and time to replace it...   L >+At this point typing in "login" returns the message  "password utility notN >+enabled" and everything else I've tried gets the response "unknown command".  >  Hm... Looks that hapily you have not a password to console :)  : >+I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions anyone can offer.  ,  Read FAQ; what you see is a console prompt.7  It is something *roughly* PC-BIOS: a programm saved ine8 ROM/PROM/EPROM/EEPROM/whatever where operates BEFORE the operating system is loaded !  Do: >>> SHOW DEVICE /  and you see your disk(s), tape(s), ethernet...R  You can directly: >>> BOOT device_name0 (suposing you have not set any boot flag before)  4  You can set the boot-device and flags with command:
 >>> SET valueD:  - in this moment cannot remember the VAX-correct name for5  boot-device and flags. Regardless that - in your VAXB
  you have: >>> HELP:  command, probably with HELP ADVANCED or something - where&  you can look what value you can save.  4  Regardless that - temporary do BOOT one_of_the_disk6 (probably you know, where disk you use :]) - be aware,5 that the disk naming in console and VMS may differ !! 3  The second step is "how to get new accu" - and wasp5 discuised here (and we not know, if you prefer COMPAQi1 service or needs the heapest resolution or...) :)t    Regards - Gotfryd   -- sE =====================================================================tF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:52:59 -040022 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>! Subject: Re: Cry for help here...4* Message-ID: <3B0BF8FB.812D7F92@oracle.com>  	 type BOOT    Sotos Patistas wrote:u > L > We have a DEC 4000-100 system running Open VMS 5.0 and today for the firstM > time, after a restart, it asks for a language choice, and then performs alliN > system tests down to #3, says tests complete and leaves off at a >>> prompt.L > At this point typing in "login" returns the message  "password utility notN > enabled" and everything else I've tried gets the response "unknown command". > : > I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions anyone can offer. >  > Sotos Patistas > DJG, Inc.g > Williamsburg, VA   -- s> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 07:11:31 GMT% From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.comt Subject: DEC/EDI Users group* Message-ID: <9efnr3$v3h$1@news.netmar.com>   Hi,m  N A while back I heard about a DEC/EDI Users group. We are a large DEC/EDI user,9 and would like to investigate joining if it still exists.g   Thanks Andrew Rycroft  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----nM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups I    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts L made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:10:57 +0200 % From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>p Subject: Re: DSSI problem-- Message-ID: <9efrah$ag$1@info.service.rug.nl>0  ; "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message =:' news:87d791gj95.fsf@prep.synonet.com...  >=20G > DSSI 1 on each goes, or I'd like it to go, to a R400 cab with a TZ86, H > and 5 RZ73s. It works from either system, but if I cable them both in,E > all the devices vanish, all either machine can see is its own SHAC.>  < Did you set the two VAX systems to have a different node-id?  . We have a similar setup with two VAX 400-3000.B Since we did not have an extra cabinet we connect bus 0 of one VAXG to bus 1 of the other VAX and similarly bus 1 of one to bus 0 of the=20tD other. One both VAXen we have the node-id for bus 0 set to 7 and for bus 1 set to 6.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:22:11 +0930g% From: Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au>r8 Subject: Re: ESC characters being eaten by parallel port' Message-ID: <3B0B7A3B.30607@vsm.com.au>    Jeremy Begg wrote:   > Hi,  > E > I've set up a Genicom 5050 line printer on the parallel port of the"M > AlphaServer DS20E here.  The machine is running OpenVMS V7.2-1.  In general G > the printer works fine, but we've found that ESCape sequences are notdF > working: the ESC character is being eaten by something.  Rather thanJ > changing font or CPI as requested, the ESCape sequence is printed on the+ > page (without the leading ESC character).o  7 Thanks for the many responses, both public and private.a  $ The cure was to SET PRINTER/PASSALL.   Regards,            Jeremy Begg  =   +---------------------------------------------------------+i=   |            VSM Software Services Pty. Ltd.              | =   |                 http://www.vsm.com.au/                  |f=   |       "OpenVMS Systems Management & Programming"        |t=   |---------------------------------------------------------| =   | P.O.Box 402, Walkerville, |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au |t=   | South Australia 5081      |   Phone:  +61 8 83592155    |,=   |---------------------------|  Mobile:  0414 422 947      |h=   |  A.C.N. 068 409 156       |     FAX:  +61 8 82231777    | =   +---------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:51:42 -0400e From: wwebb1@email.usps.govrB Subject: FW: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.comK Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB75001925BB8@rlghncst625.usps.gov>k  ; I got so ticked off that I replied to the -Request address.- WWWebb   -----Original Message-----$ From: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC # Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:48 PMv/ To: 'Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET'iB Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com     Wait just a doggone minute!C  H I posted early this (read:yesterday) AM that the promotions of Marcello J and Gorham were a *good thing*, and deferred elaboration thereon to Terry L Shannon, since whatever he had to say with respect to food chain undulations  J at Compaq would be orders of magnitude more authoritative than whatever I  could say.    K Later, playing off of the "Baq" looking like "Bag"  I did make a joke aboutrH a "Talk Bag".  (In years and regimes past it's certainly felt like we've been eE talking into a bag.  This is no longer the case.  THEY'RE LISTENING.)o  I I've given feedback to compaqworkinggroup and sent emails, mailed lettersa andaB placed phone calls to many folks in the Digital, and later Compaq,
 hierarchy.  ; I have never suggested boycotting *anything* on this forum.    William W. Webbd   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET % > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:23 PMbF > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETD > Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com >  > H > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message/ > news:R8Nfuynkz$RO@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > > In article <vAvO6.371$zl5.256821@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.. > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > > >-= > > > "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messageG- > > > news:0033000025025695000002L052*@MHS...p > > >j0 > > > Is this "Talk Bag" a new VMS premium item? > > >.> > > > Nope. Just a way to get your voice heard (for sure) and  > acted upon (onew > > > would hope). > >.A > > Acted on, not likely, if they cannot even fix their web site.e >  > Dear Sir,i > 9 > It is your privilege to boycott anything you choose to n > boycott. But advisingwG > other Compaq customers to eschew a mechanism that you personally findeD > offensive or "inappropriate" is, at best, a questionable practice. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:58:09 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brlF Subject: Re: FW: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.comL Message-ID: <OF76F9C53C.50F12F68-ON03256A55.004C996F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  F To boycott  CompaqWorkingGroup .....   means you want to SUICIDE . . .  > It is a good chance to be listened and you are WASTING !  !  !  H This is because I will move to Solaris if the own customers kill OpenVMS !!!e   Regardsd   FC        , wwebb1@email.usps.gov em 23/05/2001 10:51:42  ' Favor responder a wwebb1@email.usps.gov"             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       B Assunto: FW: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com      ; I got so ticked off that I replied to the -Request address.- WWWebb   -----Original Message-----# From: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC # Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:48 PM=/ To: 'Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET'-B Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com     Wait just a doggone minute!u  G I posted early this (read:yesterday) AM that the promotions of MarcelloeI and Gorham were a *good thing*, and deferred elaboration thereon to Terryd@ Shannon, since whatever he had to say with respect to food chain undulations   I at Compaq would be orders of magnitude more authoritative than whatever I6
 could say.  K Later, playing off of the "Baq" looking like "Bag"  I did make a joke aboutdH a "Talk Bag".  (In years and regimes past it's certainly felt like we've beenE talking into a bag.  This is no longer the case.  THEY'RE LISTENING.)8  I I've given feedback to compaqworkinggroup and sent emails, mailed letters% and0B placed phone calls to many folks in the Digital, and later Compaq,
 hierarchy.  ; I have never suggested boycotting *anything* on this forum.0   William W. Webb0   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET % > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:23 PM0F > To: Webb, William W - Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETD > Subject: RE: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com >  >lH > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message/ > news:R8Nfuynkz$RO@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > > In article <vAvO6.371$zl5.256821@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.. > Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > > >U= > > > "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messagee- > > > news:0033000025025695000002L052*@MHS...  > > >O0 > > > Is this "Talk Bag" a new VMS premium item? > > >e= > > > Nope. Just a way to get your voice heard (for sure) ande > acted upon (onen > > > would hope). > >-A > > Acted on, not likely, if they cannot even fix their web site.d >o > Dear Sir,e >.8 > It is your privilege to boycott anything you choose to > boycott. But advising@G > other Compaq customers to eschew a mechanism that you personally findfD > offensive or "inappropriate" is, at best, a questionable practice. >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:25:32 +0200sH From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Enrique_Iraz=E1bal?= <eirazabal@bancozaragozano.es>; Subject: help: -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is fullmS Message-ID: <000801c0e383$76201990$56011aac@cast_z5482.oficinas.bancozaragozano.es>.   Hi, all@  . I suppose this will be a very simple question:    0 I=B4m trying to install a shared image and then:   =2E..s6 $ INSTALL REPLACE /SHARED/HEADER_RESIDENT PRO$OBJT:BH1E %INSTALL-E-FAIL, failed to REPLACE entry for DISCO1:<GRH.OBJT>BH1.EXEa, -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full     Oh, no!     F we have no full-time system manager for our OpenVMs 6.2 Alpha 2000 4/= 275s# Server so our knowledge is limited.   F is the solution as simple as incrementing the GBLPAGES system paramet= er?, How?, How much?e  ? should I use SYSGEN or is it better using AUTOGEN to adjust it?d  F I wouldn=B4t like to study the OpenVMS System Manager Manual's chapte= r 14 about system parameters.      ! some useful data we have, I hope:s  $ $ DIR/SIZE SYS$LIBRARY:DCLTABLES.EXE   Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]    DCLTABLES.EXE;91         766   $ SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM $ RUN SYSGEN SYSGEN>  SHOW GBLPAGESF Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Un= it DynamicrF --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   --= --  ---e ----F GBLPAGES                   571500      30720     10240        -1 Page= letsF  internal value             35719       1920       640        -1 Page= s  SYSGEN>   . $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("CONTIG_GBLPAGES") 37776i, $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("FREE_GBLSECTS") 164b         thank you very much,   Quique.n   EIrazabal@bancozaragozano.es
 Madrid -Spaino   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:40:20 +01000- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>t? Subject: Re: help: -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is fullh) Message-ID: <3B0BAFB4.F999100B@bbc.co.uk>%   Enrique Irazbal wrote:,  	 > Hi, all0 >,0 > I suppose this will be a very simple question: >00 > Im trying to install a shared image and then: >2 > ...,8 > $ INSTALL REPLACE /SHARED/HEADER_RESIDENT PRO$OBJT:BH1G > %INSTALL-E-FAIL, failed to REPLACE entry for DISCO1:<GRH.OBJT>BH1.EXE1. > -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full >0	 > Oh, no!X >0J > we have no full-time system manager for our OpenVMs 6.2 Alpha 2000 4/275% > Server so our knowledge is limited.0 >0K > is the solution as simple as incrementing the GBLPAGES system parameter?,e > How?, How much?e  6 Probably, what does $ install list/global/summary say?  = GBLPAGES is dymanic on VMS 7.1, but not apparently on the VMSnE version you have, so best is to edit modparams.dat appropriately thenC run autogen.   >t >gA > should I use SYSGEN or is it better using AUTOGEN to adjust it?u >U  A autogen, after editing modparams.dat, if you want your changes to  be "permament".t   >oI > I wouldnt like to study the OpenVMS System Manager Manual's chapter 14s > about system parameters. >N  ) It seems you probably know enough anyway.a   >n# > some useful data we have, I hope:- >-& > $ DIR/SIZE SYS$LIBRARY:DCLTABLES.EXE >  > Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]@ >i > DCLTABLES.EXE;91         766 >e  
 Not relevant.    >6 > $ SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM > $ RUN SYSGEN > SYSGEN>  SHOW GBLPAGESI > Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unitr	 > DynamicfN > --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  --- > ----K > GBLPAGES                   571500      30720     10240        -1 PageletshH >  internal value             35719       1920       640        -1 Pages	 > SYSGEN>s >s   >k0 > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("CONTIG_GBLPAGES") > 37776y. > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("FREE_GBLSECTS") > 164u >  > thank you very much, >-	 > Quique.  >e > EIrazabal@bancozaragozano.es > Madrid -Spaint   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofP MedAS or the BBC.@   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:18:22 -0400e2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>, Subject: High Performance Server Advertising2 Message-ID: <HwQO6.667$fi2.15655@news.cpqcorp.net>   Dear Newsgroup,   I I just got this mail.  Please keep in mind that I have nothing to do withtK advertising and I am just passing along the information.  The web site doesn work with netscape.e       Suee  K The New High Performance Server Advertising bridge page is currently up ande running!  I This bridge page was developed to be the single site for customers to get I more details about the product solutions featured in the HPS print or web0C banner ads, as well as the corporate enterprise ads that are placedcK worldwide relating to our business. All current ads are listed on this page1L with related links back to information for the customer to gain more insightI into Compaq HPS Solutions. This page will be updated regularly as new adsfJ are generated. In addition, you will notice on this page, that we give theD customer an opportunity to begin to purchase or contact a sales rep.  G You can view the High Performance Server Advertising bridge page at then following site:   $ http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/ad   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:32:18 +0200l: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>6 Subject: Re: Hobbyist DECNET License (was: VMS<->RSTS)J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105231228330.11273-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  & On 22 May 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote: [...]i6 >+So, now DECNET at least gets past the license issue. >+ >+However..... >+Now I get:M >+%RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for operationyL >+whenever I try to do a SET HOST.  Now, I know this used to work when I hadK >+two VAX both running VMS.  Now I only have one VAX running VMS so I can'ti >+test the other end.n  @  Bill, excuse my query... have you install, configure (to set up@ the ethernet driver as DECNET line, circuit etc) and *start* you DECNET ?  And you can still:d $ SET HOST 0"  or SET HOST the_computer_themself  to get any info.t5  Also do: MCR NCP SHO KNOW LINE and SHOW KNOW CIRCUIT   - >+But, it still doesn't appear to be talking.i& >+Oh yeah, the PDP end just times out. >+F >+Something must have happened to the VAX DECNET service and I haven't >+a clue how to fix it.c >+C >+Maybe bringin up a new system from scratch (yes, I have acquired h@ >+another really good VAX to run VMS on) will show me what I did& >+wrong or what I inadvertantly broke.  '  Only if you configure DECNET before :)G    Regards - Gotfryd   -- .E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================l   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 04:44:13 -0700/ From: pjohanse@eoc.ecs.nasa.gov (Pete Johansen)w5 Subject: How to store results of Command in a symbol?n< Message-ID: <8242cdd.0105230344.51cccd73@posting.google.com>   Howdy All,    P    I am new to DCL and I was trying to duplicate something that I do in the UNIXO Korn Shell all time.  I'd like to execute a command and store the results in a s3 symbol.  In the ksh one would enter a command like          $ x = $(grep "find" foo.txt)   Is there a similar in DCL?   Thanks in advance.   Pete   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:06:19 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>9 Subject: Re: How to store results of Command in a symbol?0J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105231501310.12223-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  $ On 23 May 2001, Pete Johansen wrote:   >+Howdy All,   >+R >+   I am new to DCL and I was trying to duplicate something that I do in the UNIXQ >+Korn Shell all time.  I'd like to execute a command and store the results in a  5 >+symbol.  In the ksh one would enter a command like e >+" >+    $ x = $(grep "find" foo.txt) >+ >+Is there a similar in DCL?    Some resolution with: - job logical name$ - mailbox (escpecially pipe mailbox):  and the PIPE command was here. Can you check on dejanews,6 looking with comp.os.vms as newgroup and some words in  subject like DCL, PIPE, symbol ?   BTW: on:3 http://www.geocities.com/tsca.geo/various/deja.htmll    is available great input form.s    Regards - Gotfryd   -- vE =====================================================================gF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME,. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================e   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:21:33 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>9 Subject: Re: How to store results of Command in a symbol?cJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105231518130.12223-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  5 On Wed, 23 May 2001, Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists wrote:e  & >+On 23 May 2001, Pete Johansen wrote: [...]  >+ Some resolution with: >+- job logical name& >+- mailbox (escpecially pipe mailbox)< >+ and the PIPE command was here. Can you check on dejanews,8 >+looking with comp.os.vms as newgroup and some words in" >+subject like DCL, PIPE, symbol ?  3  The "result to a symbol" expression is appriopiate 0 for on of thread ("passing result to a sumbol").6  For sure the subject (with differrent "subject" name) was here more than one time :)  
 >+BTW: on:5 >+http://www.geocities.com/tsca.geo/various/deja.htmlE >+! >+ is available great input form.g  ,  Insert the subject and next go "to thread".+  If you cannot use HTTP access inform us :)    [...]h  Regards - Gotfryd   -- eE ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME-. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:39:14 -0400n( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>9 Subject: Re: How to store results of Command in a symbol? + Message-ID: <3B0BE7B1.DEC5672F@bigfoot.com>v  : No such construct exists in VMS.  The closest VMS gets is:5 $ PIPE SHOW SYSTEM  |  SEARCH SYS$INPUT "SWAPPER" | -:8    (READ SYS$INPUT LINEVAR  ;  WRITE SYS$OUTPUT LINEVAR)  J In the preceding example, a show system display is searched for the stringO "SWAPPER", the output of which get piped to the construct in the subshell.  The4M READ, reads the first line out the piped output, and assigns it to the symbolcT LINEVAR.  The problem, is that this symbol assignment is only local, and as such canS only be used within the subshell.  So the WRITE SYS$OUTPUT (or whatever command youWT want to use with the LINEVAR symbol works.  If change the line to not do the read inP the subshell, the symbol disappears for any subsequent commands that you pipe itR to.  If there were some way to set a global symbol via the READ, it probably wouldQ work, but I haven't found a way to do this in DCL. If you were to write a programlS (preferably C) that would take arg1 and set a GLOBAL symbol with it, so that it wasoS available at the DCL procedure level you need, it would probably work.  By the way,oN the other probablem is that any meaningful commands (that you would use symbolO substitution in) don't work because symbol substitution occurs before the wholeT command is run.a   HM   Pete Johansen wrote:   > Howdy All, >eR >    I am new to DCL and I was trying to duplicate something that I do in the UNIXP > Korn Shell all time.  I'd like to execute a command and store the results in a4 > symbol.  In the ksh one would enter a command like >r" >     $ x = $(grep "find" foo.txt) >g > Is there a similar in DCL? >h > Thanks in advance. >W > Pete   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:44:49 GMTT= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)l9 Subject: Re: How to store results of Command in a symbol?u0 Message-ID: <009FC717.0033EA00@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <3B0BE7B1.DEC5672F@bigfoot.com>, Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com> writes:; >No such construct exists in VMS.  The closest VMS gets is: 6 >$ PIPE SHOW SYSTEM  |  SEARCH SYS$INPUT "SWAPPER" | -9 >   (READ SYS$INPUT LINEVAR  ;  WRITE SYS$OUTPUT LINEVAR): > K >In the preceding example, a show system display is searched for the stringeP >"SWAPPER", the output of which get piped to the construct in the subshell.  TheN >READ, reads the first line out the piped output, and assigns it to the symbolU >LINEVAR.  The problem, is that this symbol assignment is only local, and as such can T >only be used within the subshell.  So the WRITE SYS$OUTPUT (or whatever command youU >want to use with the LINEVAR symbol works.  If change the line to not do the read inhQ >the subshell, the symbol disappears for any subsequent commands that you pipe ittS >to.  If there were some way to set a global symbol via the READ, it probably would R >work, but I haven't found a way to do this in DCL. If you were to write a program  P No it wouldn't.  The global symbol would be set in the context fo the subprocessQ used in the execution of the PIPE command and it would not be seen in the context.( of the process issuing the PIPE command.   T >(preferably C) that would take arg1 and set a GLOBAL symbol with it, so that it was   Eek!  T >available at the DCL procedure level you need, it would probably work.  By the way,O >the other probablem is that any meaningful commands (that you would use symbol P >substitution in) don't work because symbol substitution occurs before the whole >command is run.    # http://www.tmesis.com/symbol/using/d  S Of particular interest in this thread is the REMNODE_USING_PIPE_ONLY.COM procedure.   T There are a number of other procedures listed at the above URL which demonstrate theS use of SYMBOL to perform various tasks; one of those tasks is defining a DCL symbol H in the master process with the output of some DCL command that executed.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:17:45 GMTa1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>BG Subject: Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?s9 Message-ID: <t%MO6.1953$CN.368078@nostril.pacific.net.au>k  . Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:? > $       backup/verify/select=([xxx.yyy.]*.*;*) mka500:z.sav - + >         disk$user1:[xxx.zzz.yyy]*.*;*/LOGo3 > %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification passa  3 	What happens if you drop the dot after the 'yyy' ?y( 	Like ... /select=([xxx.yyy]*.*;*)   ... 	Just an idea. 						Csaba-  I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------2E    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehogcE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.oI    ----------------------------------------------------------------------p;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:35:02 +0100e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>wG Subject: Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?s( Message-ID: <3B0BA066.4B8EC61@bbc.co.uk>   Andy Burns wrote:   3 > On Tue, 22 May 2001 18:27:29 +0100, Tim Llewellyn " > <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote: >e@ > >$       backup/verify/select=([xxx.yyy.]*.*;*) mka500:z.sav -, > >        disk$user1:[xxx.zzz.yyy]*.*;*/LOG4 > >%BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass > >rE > >?, no files have been selected, why rewind the tape and reread the  > >saveset?q >s > does adding a /FAST help ? >   H I read the help and it seems to apply to disk rather than tape savesets.  $ Its tape I'm working with right now.   Thanks for the reply anyway.   regards5   >0 > -- > Andy Burns   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uki  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofr MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:11:13 +0100E- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>SG Subject: Re: If backup does not select any files, why do a verify pass?E) Message-ID: <3B0BA8E0.60901AD1@bbc.co.uk>    CSABA HARANGOZO wrote:  0 > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:A > > $       backup/verify/select=([xxx.yyy.]*.*;*) mka500:z.sav -o- > >         disk$user1:[xxx.zzz.yyy]*.*;*/LOG 5 > > %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass    > < >         What happens if you drop the dot after the 'yyy' ?1 >         Like ... /select=([xxx.yyy]*.*;*)   ...  >4  M oh, that was a typo introduced when I stripped out the commercially sensitiveE  A info in the directory names. Sorry. There should be no dot there.B   >   --  6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk-  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of- MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:52:03 -0700u, From: John Clark <john.e.clark@jpl.nasa.gov> Subject: looking for odd itemR, Message-ID: <3B0BEAB1.123C3C27@jpl.nasa.gov>   Hi;   D Is anyone aware of a product called: NSI-DECnet Security Toolkit? InB particular, I am looking for an executable called cygnus.exe. ThisF executable supposedly monitors terminal activity and kills interactiveC processes that are idle for a period of time. I was told that it is:F available at the compaq website, but my searches there (and everywhere else) came up empty.  G I'm sorry I don't have more details, I wasn't given much to work with..   H Please reply via e-mail, as I do not visit this UG much. When/if I get aB response and can get answers, I will post my findings back to this thread.E   TIA,   Eric   block3@pacbell.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:26:39 +0200 , From: Theo Jakobus <theo.jakobus@iaf.fhg.de> Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9) Message-ID: <3B0B824F.8030605@iaf.fhg.de>g  $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:  Y > In article <3B0AE242.A709B688@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:t > ( >>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >> >>J >>>Well you've had a few days now to go back and read this thread.  Do youJ >>>have any comments/suggestions as to how I might get M0.9 to run without* >>>it trashing the X server on my machine? >>> W >>Some information about which version of VMS and DECwindows would help, along with any W >>ECO's. And what kind of graphics adapter are you using, and what resolution is it in?a >> > 4 > AlphaStation 200 4/233; OpenVMS V7.2-1; TCPIP 5.0A" > 384MB memory; ZXLp-E3 @1280x1024     What about DECwindows? I have:  $ PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY *MOTIF*H ------------------------------- --------- --------- --------------------A PRODUCT                         KIT TYPE  OPERATION DATE AND TIME H ------------------------------- --------- --------- --------------------H DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF125_UPD V1.0  Patch     Install   08-JUN-1999 18:44:24H DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5       Full LP   Install   18-MAY-1999 09:35:25H DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-4       Full LP   Remove    18-MAY-1999 09:35:25H DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-4       Full LP   Install   20-JUL-1998 11:24:50H ------------------------------- --------- --------- --------------------    = What is in your file: SYS$MANAGER:DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG ??? < In this file is a lot of information about DECwindows, like:3   9-MAY-2001 19:23:06.8 Hello, this is the X serverIE This is the DECwindows X11 display server for OpenVMS AXP V7.1-990529s4                  compiled on May 29 1999 at 12:43:24 Main address = 0008A770 * Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_Xie,+ extension name: Xie, entry address 0032A788  ....   >  >  > + >>Also account quotas would be good to see.  >> >  > System Account:i; > Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:       400  Bytlm:        64000v; > Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0.; > Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       150  JTquota:       4096p; > Prclm:          10  DIOlm:       150  WSdef:        10240m; > Prio:            4  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:        16384k; > Queprio:         0  TQElm:        20  WSextent:     20480e; > CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:      2000  Pgflquo:    2000000h > ? > I've also increase the DECWindows server quota to rediculous e	 > levels:t > 5 > $ define/nolog DECW$SERVER_FILE_LIMIT           400o6 > $ define/nolog DECW$SERVER_ENQUEUE_LIMIT        10247 > $ define/nolog DECW$SERVER_WSDEF                10240 7 > $ define/nolog DECW$SERVER_WSQUOTA              16384n7 > $ define/nolog DECW$SERVER_WSEXTENT             20480g9 > $ define/nolog DECW$SERVER_PAGE_FILE            2000000g >  >  >  > 3 >>Have you been able to run ANY version of Mozilla?i >> >  > Successfully? No.t >  >  >  >>Can you run Navigator V3?o >> > J > Yes except that it shitcans any subsequent process's attempts to use the > fonts they want. >  >  > 5 >>It really would be better to take this to bugzilla.- >> > * > Take away the email address requirement.    C After entering a bug in bugzilla I get all contributions by e-mail.j I like this very much :)     Regards, Jakobus)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:04:29 GMTp= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.90 Message-ID: <009FC6D6.B0EE2D82@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <3B0B824F.8030605@iaf.fhg.de>, Theo Jakobus <theo.jakobus@iaf.fhg.de> writes:% >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:  >sZ >> In article <3B0AE242.A709B688@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes: >> a) >>>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:s >>>q >>>.K >>>>Well you've had a few days now to go back and read this thread.  Do you K >>>>have any comments/suggestions as to how I might get M0.9 to run withouto+ >>>>it trashing the X server on my machine?  >>>>X >>>Some information about which version of VMS and DECwindows would help, along with anyX >>>ECO's. And what kind of graphics adapter are you using, and what resolution is it in? >>>  >> A5 >> AlphaStation 200 4/233; OpenVMS V7.2-1; TCPIP 5.0Ac# >> 384MB memory; ZXLp-E3 @1280x1024  >m >r >What about DECwindows?d >I have: >$ PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY *MOTIF*)I >------------------------------- --------- --------- --------------------fB >PRODUCT                         KIT TYPE  OPERATION DATE AND TIMEI >------------------------------- --------- --------- --------------------EI >DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF125_UPD V1.0  Patch     Install   08-JUN-1999 18:44:24SI >DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5       Full LP   Install   18-MAY-1999 09:35:25=I >DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-4       Full LP   Remove    18-MAY-1999 09:35:25-I >DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-4       Full LP   Install   20-JUL-1998 11:24:50nI >------------------------------- --------- --------- --------------------b    5 Thanks for the reminder. It's running DWMOTIF V1.2-5 l    > >What is in your file: SYS$MANAGER:DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG ???= >In this file is a lot of information about DECwindows, like:'4 >  9-MAY-2001 19:23:06.8 Hello, this is the X serverF >This is the DECwindows X11 display server for OpenVMS AXP V7.1-9905295 >                 compiled on May 29 1999 at 12:43:24h >Main address = 0008A770+ >Activating extension image DECW$SVEXT_Xie,,, >extension name: Xie, entry address 0032A788 >.....  A There is nothing in the DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG that is differenteB after the crash than is found when the server is successfully run- ning without incident.    
 >{...snip...}nD >After entering a bug in bugzilla I get all contributions by e-mail. >I like this very much :)o  E After entering an email address on a web page, I get volumes of SPAM.i I dislike this very much.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             (O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:52:09 GMTo' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>, Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.9- Message-ID: <3B0BB1A6.8BD07A54@theblakes.com>L  [ The only thing that looks a little off to me is the page file quota (its on the high side),aZ but I really don't know if this could cause a problem. I would venture that the problem is[ caused by some configuration issue since its not only Mozilla that's having trouble on your" system.-  C Are there any DECwindows experts listening who can give some input?.  E Does SHOW LOGICAL DECW$SERVER* reveal any other interesting settings?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:35:12 GMT0= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)m Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.90 Message-ID: <009FC6FC.82A62929@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <3B0BB1A6.8BD07A54@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:t\ >The only thing that looks a little off to me is the page file quota (its on the high side),[ >but I really don't know if this could cause a problem. I would venture that the problem iso\ >caused by some configuration issue since its not only Mozilla that's having trouble on your >system. >jD >Are there any DECwindows experts listening who can give some input? >pF >Does SHOW LOGICAL DECW$SERVER* reveal any other interesting settings? >  >j  G Colin sent me a private email requesting that I gather some informationTG with a special logical defined.  So I proceeded to log in with SET HOST F on the console.  Of course, the first time about I forgot to use /LOG.  G I defined the logical and executed @MOZILLA.  The DECWindows server didtH its usual crash.  I logged out of the SET HOST session and restarted theJ DECWindows server.  This time, however, I didn't log in via the DECWindows5 login.  It remained displayed on the graphics device.   E I logged in a second time via SET HOST on the console (with /LOG this=H time!) and executed @MOZILLA.  After a few brief moments and lots of theD logging information enabled via the special logical, M0.9 displayed!A I couldn't get it to do too much though and then MOZILLA crashed.D   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             IO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:11:38 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: MS-Fawning at Compaqr; Message-ID: <eGOO6.1626$zl5.693987@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>e  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:cjsmgtcrjq9vvtce7ptvb82upeo7bo5a89@4ax.com...4 > On Wed, 23 May 2001 00:51:19 +0200, Christof Brass > <brass@infopuls.com> wrote:( >w >e@ > >At the Technical Update I asked one Compaq representative why= > >they didn't copy SUN's strategy in the UNIX market segmentdB > >because this strategy seems to work much better than their own.> > >Answer: we don't want to have competition with our M$ based9 > >product line. Very strange answer to my understanding.I >oE > Translation: We would rather fill Microsoft's pockets than our own. E > Recall that Compaq actually lost money on low end PCs last quarter.eF > Every single additional PC sale they made increased their loss. They2 > would much rather this than make money it seems. >   L Compaq's fixation, fealty, and fawning over Microsoft is indeed a sad thing.H Win2K adoption rates are way below expectations. Datacenter Edition is aJ disaster (hasta la vista, ML770). And how many dollars has .NET brought in for Compaq?   I Every time Compaq sells a Wintel box, Compaq contributes to the installeda base of Intel and Microsoft.  J Every time Compaq sells an Alpha box, Compaq contributed to the Alpha, and VMS/Tru64 installed base.   F By adopting a pro-Microsoft stance at the expense of its own products,9 Compaq is doing itself and its STOCKHOLDERS a disservice.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:46:44 +0100m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>1 Subject: Re: Oracle x NATO8 Message-ID: <p2umgt4cunu3oobloc1edm48jhrpgd3uph@4ax.com>  C On 22 May 2001 18:36:34 +0200, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)e wrote:  y >In article <OF99820E63.027C638D-ON03256A54.00548C97@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:V >>Click  >>? >>http://www.oracle.com/features/customers/index.html?nato.htmls >nK >Yet another page one can't see with VMS (NETSCAPE V3.03 offers empty pagesl( >and MOZILLA 0.9 crashes with ACCVIO)...  B Not for me it doesn't. I can read the page no problem with Mozilla 0.9. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:03:06 +0100b% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t Subject: Re: Oracle x NATO8 Message-ID: <m7umgto4pr5gluavt7ko8acp9fdrla28jq@4ax.com>  # On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:24:31 -0300,s* fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:   >Click >e> >http://www.oracle.com/features/customers/index.html?nato.html >E3 >Is NATO a Business to use E-Business products ????w: >Are the servers runinng OpenVMS as promised by NATO ?????  E Not likely as Oracle do not support Oracle 11i applications (on whicheA this NATO sale appears to be based) under VMS. Oracle support theeC immediate previous release of Oracle Apps under VMS but not the newrC web enabled version. This sends exactly the opposite signal to thattD which  Compaq are apparently trying to send about a VMS renaissance.B If Compaq cannot get SAP that's highly unfortunate. To lose OracleE Apps as well could be a potential disaster for the regrowth strategy.o  A It must be worth millions of dollars to Sun to be able to counterd> Compaq's renewed VMS marketing by pointing out that SAP has noE confidence at all in VMS and Oracle are luke warm as well. That;s howeF they'll spin it and, to be honest, they are probably currently correctC about these particular companies views. How Compaq fixes this is tooD get at least one of Oracle and SAP *absolutely fully onboard at *ANYE REPEAT ANY COST*. Under Marcello about 50% of the work to really pushf@ OpenVMS has been done. The final 50% hopefully is still to come.     >Regards >a >FCe   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:46:34 -0400-2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Oracle x NATOL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2305011146360001@user-2ivecbp.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <m7umgto4pr5gluavt7ko8acp9fdrla28jq@4ax.com>, Alan Greigu <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:e  % > On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:24:31 -0300,v, > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >  > >Click > >e@ > >http://www.oracle.com/features/customers/index.html?nato.html > >i5 > >Is NATO a Business to use E-Business products ???? < > >Are the servers runinng OpenVMS as promised by NATO ????? > G > Not likely as Oracle do not support Oracle 11i applications (on which-C > this NATO sale appears to be based) under VMS. Oracle support the'E > immediate previous release of Oracle Apps under VMS but not the newmE > web enabled version. This sends exactly the opposite signal to that-F > which  Compaq are apparently trying to send about a VMS renaissance.D > If Compaq cannot get SAP that's highly unfortunate. To lose OracleG > Apps as well could be a potential disaster for the regrowth strategy.j  C Kevin McCoole, some kind of Oracle bigshot in the relationship witheJ Compaq, spoke at yesterday's AlphaServer Diamond Forum.  He really annoyedJ me.  I guess it was partly due to his being the last speaker at the end ofI a long day.  But mainly because I came out with the impression that he is 6 a mixture of clueless, hostile, or indifferent to VMS.  H I'm not an Oracle user, so I can't really judge the impact of everything he said.  Some items I noted:r  I Oracle will abandon the 11i applications on VMS.  They made this decisionlF some time ago, and he stated yesterday that they won't reconsider it. D They decided this software was too difficult to maintain on multipleG platforms.  So it will only be supported on Unix (several) and NT.  TheRC Oracle folks present were very enthusiastic about helping customersiH migrate Oracle apps off of VMS.  VMS is only for the back-end database. 1 (This part sounded so Palmerish I wanted to gag.)o  J Oracle continues to promise that new versions will ship for VMS in 90 daysI or less after the tier-1 platforms.  Tier-1 includes Tru64 and some otheruI unixes, and NT, which will all get new version releases on the same day. sI VMS is the only non-unix system to get the special 90-day promise.  OtherlJ platforms get no promise at all, I guess.  He thinks they'll get closer toG a 60-day delay in the next few releases.  DII-COE will help them a lot,;) and the delay should shrink dramatically.   H VMS is the 6th-biggest platform for Oracle, well ahead of #7.  The top 5H are NT and several unixes, including Tru64.  (I didn't note the order ofF the top 5.)  I believe Oracle is scared to abandon VMS, since they are' getting quite a chunk of money from it.   E Oracle has seen revenue growth from VMS for the last quarter or two. t! Previously VMS was flat for them.t  G Compaq and Oracle have set up some kind of joint-support agreement that G will become effective over the next few months.  Access to each other's E support databases, perhaps less red tape when a problem involves both-H organizations.  His description of this initiative was not very clear toJ me.  Most of it will be behind the scenes from a customer's point of view,8 I think.  VMS should benefit from this as much as Tru64.  H Compaq continues to transfer software technology, especially clustering,J to Oracle.  This will help Oracle on Tru64, perhaps also on VMS.  It's notG clear to me whether Compaq gets anything in return, except Oracle won'to7 tell them to go to heck, at least for a while longer.  e  F Compaq is the only Oracle platform that doesn't have it's own databaseA product.  Sun, HP, IBM, etc all have their own mid-range database > offerings.  This is why Oracle is getting so cozy with Compaq.  A Compaq and Oracle will continue to suggest, test and certify someaH hardware-software platforms for Oracle.  These will be alphaservers withG most of the detailed hardware configurations already specified, down toJG the specific adapter and memory choices.  I think these prefered system3H packages will be available with special part numbers, maybe bundled withJ Oracle software.  Again, I was confused about the details.  The focus hereJ is CLEARLY Tru64.  I don't think they have done anything like this for VMSF systems yet.  Someone suggested the same program could be done for VMSD with little extra effort, since the hardware work would be virtuallyB identical.  This got a mumbled responce of non-commitment from Mr.; McCoole.  (Most of what he said regarding VMS was mumbled.)g  I Someone asked about the company's continuing support for Rdb and CDD.  OntE this, McCoole would not say anything at all.  I think he has heard of1C these products, but perhaps did not realize they still exist at hisiG company.  (At the December OpenVMS diamond forum, there was an Rdb guy,-J and he was very positive and upbeat.  It's likely that McCoole is just the! wrong messenger for Rdb and CDD.)T  C Mr. McCoole freqently said "Oracle is Oracle", meaning the back-end-H database software is very independent of platform.  VMS will get all the5 features and interfaces that the other platforms get.l  G Overall, as a non-oracle person, I felt that Mr. McCoole was a horrible H choice to present to a VMS audience.  (He also gave essentially the sameI talk to the Tru64 crowd in the parallel session.)  I don't think he likes J VMS, I don't think he understands it, and I don't think he was prepared to$ address the concerns of VMS folks.    F That's an amateur's perspective on the Oracle presentation.  HopefullyC someone more familiar with this arena will also report on the day'sME festivities.  Alas, I don't think Terry Shannon was at the forum. :-(4    nC > It must be worth millions of dollars to Sun to be able to countere@ > Compaq's renewed VMS marketing by pointing out that SAP has noG > confidence at all in VMS and Oracle are luke warm as well. That;s howaH > they'll spin it and, to be honest, they are probably currently correctE > about these particular companies views. How Compaq fixes this is tolF > get at least one of Oracle and SAP *absolutely fully onboard at *ANYG > REPEAT ANY COST*. Under Marcello about 50% of the work to really push B > OpenVMS has been done. The final 50% hopefully is still to come.  A If yesterday was any indication, Oracle isn't even thinking about C improving support for VMS.  They'll have to be dragged, kicking and 3 screaming.  A big job, but somebody needs to do it.I   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comE   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:12:21 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Oracle x NATO) Message-ID: <3B0BE165.EAE06B29@bbc.co.uk>    Robert Deininger wrote:P  E > In article <m7umgto4pr5gluavt7ko8acp9fdrla28jq@4ax.com>, Alan Greig  > <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:  > ' > > On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:24:31 -0300, . > > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > >c
 > > >Click > > >pB > > >http://www.oracle.com/features/customers/index.html?nato.html > > >o7 > > >Is NATO a Business to use E-Business products ????a> > > >Are the servers runinng OpenVMS as promised by NATO ????? > >lI > > Not likely as Oracle do not support Oracle 11i applications (on whichdE > > this NATO sale appears to be based) under VMS. Oracle support the1G > > immediate previous release of Oracle Apps under VMS but not the newaG > > web enabled version. This sends exactly the opposite signal to thatrH > > which  Compaq are apparently trying to send about a VMS renaissance.F > > If Compaq cannot get SAP that's highly unfortunate. To lose OracleI > > Apps as well could be a potential disaster for the regrowth strategy.. >>E > Kevin McCoole, some kind of Oracle bigshot in the relationship with L > Compaq, spoke at yesterday's AlphaServer Diamond Forum.  He really annoyedL > me.  I guess it was partly due to his being the last speaker at the end ofK > a long day.  But mainly because I came out with the impression that he is 8 > a mixture of clueless, hostile, or indifferent to VMS. >yJ > I'm not an Oracle user, so I can't really judge the impact of everything > he said.  Some items I noted:p >tK > Oracle will abandon the 11i applications on VMS.  They made this decision1G > some time ago, and he stated yesterday that they won't reconsider it. F > They decided this software was too difficult to maintain on multipleI > platforms.  So it will only be supported on Unix (several) and NT.  The E > Oracle folks present were very enthusiastic about helping customers-I > migrate Oracle apps off of VMS.  VMS is only for the back-end database.13 > (This part sounded so Palmerish I wanted to gag.)I  K This is sounding more and more depressing :-(. In fact I may just go to thev. bar, and I don't usually drink before sundown.  9 If there are no applications on VMS then whats the point?-   >- >-L > Oracle continues to promise that new versions will ship for VMS in 90 daysK > or less after the tier-1 platforms.  Tier-1 includes Tru64 and some otherGJ > unixes, and NT, which will all get new version releases on the same day.K > VMS is the only non-unix system to get the special 90-day promise.  OtheriL > platforms get no promise at all, I guess.  He thinks they'll get closer toI > a 60-day delay in the next few releases.  DII-COE will help them a lot,t+ > and the delay should shrink dramatically.t >iJ > VMS is the 6th-biggest platform for Oracle, well ahead of #7.  The top 5J > are NT and several unixes, including Tru64.  (I didn't note the order ofH > the top 5.)  I believe Oracle is scared to abandon VMS, since they are) > getting quite a chunk of money from it.l  K but don't want to grow the VMS market by allowing those that wish to deployiE VMS only configurations to deploy their front end as well as back endu	 functionsA on VMS.n   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk-  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofi MedAS or the BBC.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:18:54 -0300k) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brt Subject: Re: Oracle x NATOL Message-ID: <OF725D1DC5.8B7065B0-ON03256A55.0058FCDB@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H With the bought of Informix by IBM,  and its merge with DB2,  I dont see much future fornH Oracle with IBM's customers. They have fidelity with IBM and if they can change from OracleG to the new DB2, they will. So Oracle will lose this market.  In Brazil,a Oracle is commited to SuntG for big projects. I've heard and I think it is true: people from Oracle1 dont suggest other plataformK for their products except Sun.   The major installations of Oracle here areD running under Sun.J Followed by HP (2nd), IBM (3rd) and Compaq (4th) (with a limited number of RDB installations).cA Petrobras is one of the majors RDB users in  Brazil (more than 40p# installations), but I know at least,I 25 will be ported to Oracle / SAP / Sun. At the company, they are runningh Oracle in IBM SP (AIX)I nowadays, but I dont see much future for AIX after the end of SAP projecto ....   Regardss   FC        C rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) em 23/05/2001 12:46:34   > Favor responder a rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv       Assunto: Re: Oracle x NATO    C In article <m7umgto4pr5gluavt7ko8acp9fdrla28jq@4ax.com>, Alan Greigg <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:n  % > On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:24:31 -0300,f, > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >x > >Click > >.@ > >http://www.oracle.com/features/customers/index.html?nato.html > > 5 > >Is NATO a Business to use E-Business products ????s< > >Are the servers runinng OpenVMS as promised by NATO ????? >mG > Not likely as Oracle do not support Oracle 11i applications (on which C > this NATO sale appears to be based) under VMS. Oracle support theAE > immediate previous release of Oracle Apps under VMS but not the neweE > web enabled version. This sends exactly the opposite signal to that F > which  Compaq are apparently trying to send about a VMS renaissance.D > If Compaq cannot get SAP that's highly unfortunate. To lose OracleG > Apps as well could be a potential disaster for the regrowth strategy.   C Kevin McCoole, some kind of Oracle bigshot in the relationship with1J Compaq, spoke at yesterday's AlphaServer Diamond Forum.  He really annoyedJ me.  I guess it was partly due to his being the last speaker at the end ofI a long day.  But mainly because I came out with the impression that he is96 a mixture of clueless, hostile, or indifferent to VMS.  H I'm not an Oracle user, so I can't really judge the impact of everything he said.  Some items I noted:d  I Oracle will abandon the 11i applications on VMS.  They made this decisionXE some time ago, and he stated yesterday that they won't reconsider it.aD They decided this software was too difficult to maintain on multipleG platforms.  So it will only be supported on Unix (several) and NT.  The C Oracle folks present were very enthusiastic about helping customers G migrate Oracle apps off of VMS.  VMS is only for the back-end database. 1 (This part sounded so Palmerish I wanted to gag.)   J Oracle continues to promise that new versions will ship for VMS in 90 daysI or less after the tier-1 platforms.  Tier-1 includes Tru64 and some other H unixes, and NT, which will all get new version releases on the same day.I VMS is the only non-unix system to get the special 90-day promise.  Other J platforms get no promise at all, I guess.  He thinks they'll get closer toG a 60-day delay in the next few releases.  DII-COE will help them a lot,n) and the delay should shrink dramatically.,  H VMS is the 6th-biggest platform for Oracle, well ahead of #7.  The top 5H are NT and several unixes, including Tru64.  (I didn't note the order ofF the top 5.)  I believe Oracle is scared to abandon VMS, since they are' getting quite a chunk of money from it..  D Oracle has seen revenue growth from VMS for the last quarter or two.! Previously VMS was flat for them.   G Compaq and Oracle have set up some kind of joint-support agreement that:G will become effective over the next few months.  Access to each other'scE support databases, perhaps less red tape when a problem involves bothtH organizations.  His description of this initiative was not very clear toJ me.  Most of it will be behind the scenes from a customer's point of view,8 I think.  VMS should benefit from this as much as Tru64.  H Compaq continues to transfer software technology, especially clustering,J to Oracle.  This will help Oracle on Tru64, perhaps also on VMS.  It's notG clear to me whether Compaq gets anything in return, except Oracle won'tg5 tell them to go to heck, at least for a while longer.y  F Compaq is the only Oracle platform that doesn't have it's own databaseA product.  Sun, HP, IBM, etc all have their own mid-range databaset> offerings.  This is why Oracle is getting so cozy with Compaq.  A Compaq and Oracle will continue to suggest, test and certify someyH hardware-software platforms for Oracle.  These will be alphaservers withG most of the detailed hardware configurations already specified, down tosG the specific adapter and memory choices.  I think these prefered systemTH packages will be available with special part numbers, maybe bundled withJ Oracle software.  Again, I was confused about the details.  The focus hereJ is CLEARLY Tru64.  I don't think they have done anything like this for VMSF systems yet.  Someone suggested the same program could be done for VMSD with little extra effort, since the hardware work would be virtuallyB identical.  This got a mumbled responce of non-commitment from Mr.; McCoole.  (Most of what he said regarding VMS was mumbled.),  I Someone asked about the company's continuing support for Rdb and CDD.  On E this, McCoole would not say anything at all.  I think he has heard ofuC these products, but perhaps did not realize they still exist at his%G company.  (At the December OpenVMS diamond forum, there was an Rdb guy,lJ and he was very positive and upbeat.  It's likely that McCoole is just the! wrong messenger for Rdb and CDD.)   C Mr. McCoole freqently said "Oracle is Oracle", meaning the back-end)H database software is very independent of platform.  VMS will get all the5 features and interfaces that the other platforms get.4  G Overall, as a non-oracle person, I felt that Mr. McCoole was a horribleeH choice to present to a VMS audience.  (He also gave essentially the sameI talk to the Tru64 crowd in the parallel session.)  I don't think he likestJ VMS, I don't think he understands it, and I don't think he was prepared to" address the concerns of VMS folks.  F That's an amateur's perspective on the Oracle presentation.  HopefullyC someone more familiar with this arena will also report on the day'stE festivities.  Alas, I don't think Terry Shannon was at the forum. :-(e    C > It must be worth millions of dollars to Sun to be able to countere@ > Compaq's renewed VMS marketing by pointing out that SAP has noG > confidence at all in VMS and Oracle are luke warm as well. That;s howPH > they'll spin it and, to be honest, they are probably currently correctE > about these particular companies views. How Compaq fixes this is tooF > get at least one of Oracle and SAP *absolutely fully onboard at *ANYG > REPEAT ANY COST*. Under Marcello about 50% of the work to really pushyB > OpenVMS has been done. The final 50% hopefully is still to come.  A If yesterday was any indication, Oracle isn't even thinking aboutfC improving support for VMS.  They'll have to be dragged, kicking and 3 screaming.  A big job, but somebody needs to do it.s   -- Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:31:57 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 7 Subject: Re: Oracle x NATO (revenge and boycott Oracle)nL Message-ID: <OFA2E65E2D.9DA3FED2-ON03256A55.005A5E68@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  A I suggest to all the customers porting all their RDB databases ton InterSystems Cach=E9H and running all the Web stuff from BEA  ! Forget Oracle stuff . . . Ima= gine the 10.000.000 (???)E  OpenVMS user s running their new web based applications under Oraclei concurrents.  H Or we give an option to RDB:  Oracle sale the RDB product to InterSyste= ms and they? can in the future integrate the Cache + RDB ..... imagine ......   Regardst   FC        > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> em 23/05/2001 13:12:21  9 Favor responder a Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>              Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr       Assunto: Re: Oracle x NATO         Robert Deininger wrote:n  E > In article <m7umgto4pr5gluavt7ko8acp9fdrla28jq@4ax.com>, Alan Greigd > <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:s >r' > > On Tue, 22 May 2001 12:24:31 -0300,t. > > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > >e
 > > >Click > > >iB > > >http://www.oracle.com/features/customers/index.html?nato.html > > >e7 > > >Is NATO a Business to use E-Business products ????v> > > >Are the servers runinng OpenVMS as promised by NATO ????? > >kH > > Not likely as Oracle do not support Oracle 11i applications (on whi= chE > > this NATO sale appears to be based) under VMS. Oracle support theaH > > immediate previous release of Oracle Apps under VMS but not the new=  H > > web enabled version. This sends exactly the opposite signal to that=  H > > which  Compaq are apparently trying to send about a VMS renaissance= .hF > > If Compaq cannot get SAP that's highly unfortunate. To lose OracleH > > Apps as well could be a potential disaster for the regrowth strateg= y. > E > Kevin McCoole, some kind of Oracle bigshot in the relationship withaD > Compaq, spoke at yesterday's AlphaServer Diamond Forum.  He really annoyediH > me.  I guess it was partly due to his being the last speaker at the e= nd ofH > a long day.  But mainly because I came out with the impression that h= e is8 > a mixture of clueless, hostile, or indifferent to VMS. >nH > I'm not an Oracle user, so I can't really judge the impact of everyth= inge > he said.  Some items I noted:h >oH > Oracle will abandon the 11i applications on VMS.  They made this deci= sionH > some time ago, and he stated yesterday that they won't reconsider it.=  F > They decided this software was too difficult to maintain on multipleH > platforms.  So it will only be supported on Unix (several) and NT.  T= heE > Oracle folks present were very enthusiastic about helping customersmH > migrate Oracle apps off of VMS.  VMS is only for the back-end databas= e.3 > (This part sounded so Palmerish I wanted to gag.)l  H This is sounding more and more depressing :-(. In fact I may just go to=  the. bar, and I don't usually drink before sundown.  9 If there are no applications on VMS then whats the point?r   >a >CH > Oracle continues to promise that new versions will ship for VMS in 90=   daysH > or less after the tier-1 platforms.  Tier-1 includes Tru64 and some o= therH > unixes, and NT, which will all get new version releases on the same d= ay. H > VMS is the only non-unix system to get the special 90-day promise.  O= therH > platforms get no promise at all, I guess.  He thinks they'll get clos= er toH > a 60-day delay in the next few releases.  DII-COE will help them a lo= t,+ > and the delay should shrink dramatically.f >sH > VMS is the 6th-biggest platform for Oracle, well ahead of #7.  The to= p 5lH > are NT and several unixes, including Tru64.  (I didn't note the order=  ofaH > the top 5.)  I believe Oracle is scared to abandon VMS, since they ar= e,) > getting quite a chunk of money from it.'  H but don't want to grow the VMS market by allowing those that wish to de= ployE VMS only configurations to deploy their front end as well as back endf	 functionsh on VMS.n   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.n             =    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:50:03 -0400e, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>7 Subject: Re: PC compiler pricing (was: Promotions at Q)l8 Message-ID: <ssbngt8rt78n6omvb6njokf3735t3chl09@4ax.com>  @ On 22 May 2001 17:49:25 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  v >In article <NEBBKPNOEDHBDNGMKDLEAEJPEJAA.metze@ginny.mrl.uiuc.edu>, Virginia Metze <metze@ginny.mrl.uiuc.edu> writes: > M >> Also, who would one talk to at Compaq to try to get better pricing for thecN >> Compaq/Digital Fortran for PCs.  It is great, but at 400 bucks a shot (evenQ >> for just the license and no manual or CD) it is going to be hard to get people1 >> to2
 >> use it. > C >I pay more than $400 for compilers for PCs and Macintosh (although G >not Fortran).  That price seems fair to me for a DEQ quality compiler.   A Compaq Visual Fortran is one of the lowest-priced offerings for a F full-featured Fortran 95 product on Windows.  The suggested list price> for the standard edition is $599, but it sold for less at mostA resellers.  The competitors?  Lahey is $595 (and tends to sell ateE list), Absoft is $699 and Intel is, effectively, well over $1000.  Wed# do offer an academic price of $389.n  A If you want to feel better, look at what we charge for Fortran ondF OpenVMS!  $1375 for just the license (Personal Use license, similar toE the Visual Fortran license), another $1070 for the media if you don'tsD already have it.  On Tru64 UNIX, you have to pay another $1200 or so for the Programmer's Toolkit.p  D Visual Fortran for Windows is by far our best-selling Fortran and isC also, by far, the best-selling Fortran for Windows.  Maybe we don'tuA charge enough, especially considering all you get in the product!i    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)o Fortran Engineeringc& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:45:40 GMTs% From: dorenat@mailandnewdot.com (Bob)t Subject: Re: PGP revisited: Message-ID: <Xns90AA59F80207Fgneissmailroom@63.210.103.21>  ! >Where do you find Gnupg for VMS?'  , http://www.gnupg.org seems to be home site, B but I didn't see any mention of VMS or download for a port for VMS   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:49:56 GMT $ From: Joe Seigh <jseigh@genuity.com>+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearingd+ Message-ID: <3B0B87C3.2FCF27E7@genuity.com>n   Dima Volodin wrote:m >  ... O > Without memory granularity requirements and/or a way to account for differentrR > ways different architectures deal with memory granularity, I don't see how POSIX; > threads interface can be portable (as the name suggests).  >   N You could give a pretty good argument that malloc returns addresses on an evenM multiple of the word tearing boundary.  Consider what would be the case if ite did not.  M As for knowing what the exact boundary, I'm not sure what that would buy you.sM Suppose on a given system it was 128 bytes.  You don't have that much controlaG on structure layouts.  128 byte alignment would really screw things up.i  X Now you might be able to give a good argument that it should be on a structure alignmentU boundary.  It would be independent of any primitive data types, e.g. int, long, etc..nV And it would leave it up to the compiler which is architecture/platform specific.  And* calloc would work for structures at least.  	 Joe Seight   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 06:54:22 -0400t/ From: Dave Butenhof <David.Butenhof@compaq.com>4+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearing * Message-ID: <3B0B96DE.7E4FB9E3@compaq.com>   Dima Volodin wrote:n  O > Without memory granularity requirements and/or a way to account for differentwR > ways different architectures deal with memory granularity, I don't see how POSIX; > threads interface can be portable (as the name suggests).,  W Right, and since the C and C++ standards don't specify the size of a byte, or the order U of bytes in an int or long, clearly THEY cannot be standard, either. You oversimplifyf the situation.  S PORTABILITY doesn't mean that you can do any bloody thing you want and have it work U everywhere. Rather, it means that the standard has specified a range of uses that AREuV portable. If you don't do things beyond the scope of the standard, or things precluded by the standard, you're fine.h  U POSIX doesn't specify, nor presume knowledge of, the hardware architecture. It cannot T know, or specify, which data sizes or operations might be supported by the hardware.W Nor can it limit the optimizations employed for low-level data access by compilers. ButtT that's really about as far as anyone can go without specifying a particular hardware architecture and compiler.  V To oversimplify in the other direction... the standard is there to ENABLE you to writeU portable code, not to PREVENT you from writing nonportable code. You need to be awarenW of implementation-specific behavior in many cases; while that's unfortunate, I'm afraidlQ nobody ever said that life (or programming, much less concurrent programming) wasp supposed to be easy.  C /------------------[ David.Butenhof@compaq.com ]------------------\aC | Compaq Computer Corporation              POSIX Thread Architect |gC |     My book: http://www.awl.com/cseng/titles/0-201-63392-2/     | C \-----[ http://home.earthlink.net/~anneart/family/dave.html ]-----/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:39:55 +02007* From: Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de>+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearing & Message-ID: <3B0BD9CB.BD5E7D5A@web.de>   Dave Butenhof wrote:   [...]bU > PORTABILITY doesn't mean that you can do any bloody thing you want and have it worktW > everywhere. Rather, it means that the standard has specified a range of uses that ARErX > portable. If you don't do things beyond the scope of the standard, or things precluded > by the standard, you're fine.h  3 what exactly is "beyond the scope of the standard" p6 and/or "precluded by the standard" with the following:  0      char charForThreadA; // r/w thread A _only_0      char charForThreadB; // r/w thread B _only_   or        pthread_mutex_t mutexA;      pthread_mutex_t mutexB;  f1      char charA; // shared r/w access via mutex Ao1      char charB; // shared r/w access via mutex Bi   ?r  + is it really looking as a "bloody thing" ??s  W > POSIX doesn't specify, nor presume knowledge of, the hardware architecture. It cannotvV > know, or specify, which data sizes or operations might be supported by the hardware.Y > Nor can it limit the optimizations employed for low-level data access by compilers. ButaV > that's really about as far as anyone can go without specifying a particular hardware > architecture and compilerh  * java seems to be on the way to having both0 a) portable word tearing safe programming model 5 _and_ b) various platform specific low level classes d2 for low level programming. I only wish that POSIX - would have "something" to help me in writing t1 word-tearing safe _portable_ programs (after all  1 it does provide static volatile sig_atomic_t for e2 portable signal handlers, but unfortunately AFAIK 1 _nothing_ for the MT programs and programs using   process shared memory)  ? a) http://www.cs.umd.edu/Library/TRs/CS-TR-4215/CS-TR-4215.ps.Zc  3 A variable refers to a static variable of a loaded  5 class, a field of an allocated object, or element of e1 an allocated array. The system must maintain the  3 following properties with regards to variables and a the memory manager:  ...x6 The fact that two variables may be stored in adjacent - bytes (e.g., in a byte array) is immaterial. s/ Two variables can be simultaneously updated by t9 different threads without needing to use synchronization a4 to account for the fact that they are ``adjacent''.     : b) http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/rtjintro.html   Physical Memory Access T4 The RTSJ defines classes for programmers wishing to + directly access physical memory from code. h/ RawMemoryAccess defines methods that allow the  2 programmer to construct an object that represents 2 a range of physical addresses and then access the 4 physical memory with byte, short, int, long, float, 0 and double granularity. No semantics other than 5 the set<type>() and get<type>() methods are implied. r4 The ScopedPhysicalMemory and ImmortalPhysicalMemory  classes allow programmers...    8 An instance of RawMemoryAccess models a ``raw storage'' 8 area as a fixed-size sequence of bytes. Factory methods 8 allow RawMemoryAccess objects to be created from memory 9 at a particular address range or using a particular type o5 of memory. The implementation must provide a factory O6 that interprets these requests correctly. The factory 7 may be set by applications based on documentation from  2 the implementation provider. A full complement of 7 set<type>() and get<type>() methods allow the contents s; of the physical memory area to be accessed through offsets a8 from the base, interpreted as byte, short, int, long or 6 float data values, and copied to/from arrays of those 7 types. The byte-ordering interpretation of the data is d8 based on the value of the BYTE_ORDER static variable in  class RealtimeSystem.   8 The RawMemoryAccess class allows a real-time program to ; implement device drivers, memory-mapped I/O, flash memory, f4 battery-backed RAM, and similar low level software.  .t .m .s   regards,
 alexander.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:15:32 -0400s  From: Dima Volodin <dvv@dvv.org>+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearingm' Message-ID: <3B0BE224.C826B9EB@dvv.org>m   Dave Butenhof wrote: >  > Dima Volodin wrote:i > Q > > Without memory granularity requirements and/or a way to account for differentnT > > ways different architectures deal with memory granularity, I don't see how POSIX= > > threads interface can be portable (as the name suggests).d > L > Right, and since the C and C++ standards don't specify the size of a byte,  O Except that both guarantee that it's at least eight bits, and this guarantee isA' good enough for a portable application.r   > or the order > of bytes in an int or long,u  N Which simply means that you cannot rely on any particular byte order in an intO or long when creating a portable application. Again, good enough for a portables program.  ; > clearly THEY cannot be standard, either. You oversimplifya > the situation. > U > PORTABILITY doesn't mean that you can do any bloody thing you want and have it workaW > everywhere. Rather, it means that the standard has specified a range of uses that AREkX > portable. If you don't do things beyond the scope of the standard, or things precluded > by the standard, you're fine.h  M Without granularity specs in the standard, you're way out of the scope of the 3 standard in almost every code example in your book.o  E > /------------------[ David.Butenhof@compaq.com ]------------------\vE > |     My book: http://www.awl.com/cseng/titles/0-201-63392-2/     |    Dima   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:45:03 -0400w* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>& Subject: Re: Recognising a LAT Service+ Message-ID: <3B0BB0CF.BD5EE279@rtfmcsi.com>y   Peter Weaver wrote:h  9 > "Chuck Chopp" <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote in messaget' > news:3B095852.C94C528C@rtfmcsi.com...t > > rodney_jones wrote:t > >oD > > > I have an Alpha OpenVMS Cluster.  Using LATCP I have created a	 > ServicecF > > > called LAB that is available on several nodes.  I connect to theE > > > Service using VT Terminals via an Emulex P4000 Terminal Server.oD > > > Is there any way from DCL (e.g. during execution of LOGIN.COM) > that IG > > > can discover whether a User-Connection was initiated by selectingd > the E > > > LAB Service as against simply connecting to a node (or, indeed,- > some > > > other service)?a > >1D > > Yes, you can do this.  I had a program on my VMScluster [all VAX	 > systems C > > running VMS v5.2-2H4] that could figure out what service a user2 > connected0# > > to when they logged in via LAT.u > > H > > At the moment, however, I do not have the source code or binaries on > hand; E > > they are on an archive tape and I  need to resurrect my MV3100m90i > system > > to read the tape.S > >... >nC > I do have the .C source that someone posted when I asked the samerH > question a few years back but I do not have Rodney Jones' e-mail sinceA > the news server ate the start of the thread. I also have a .EXEnF > compiled under Alpha 7.1 if you want it. Send me your e-mail address( > and I will send the source and/or exe.   Peter,  I Thanks for the offer there.  It was going to take me a little time to get I my MV3190 back up & running [suffered a hard drive failure some time ago]cJ and then I'd have to figure out which archive tape the files were on.  So,I yes, an emailed copy of the source and the .EXE compiled & linked for useoH on an Alpha system would be great!  My reply-to address is OK to use for this as it is un-fudged.  G Rodney did send me an email and I've got his address.  I'll send you annJ email with his address [I don't want to post it on the news group] in case8 he has not seen your posting and contacted you directly.     Regards,   Chuck  -- Chuck Chopps  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager7                                   8007740718@skytel.comf   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:24:04 +0200r) From: "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr>o* Subject: Re: savesets not exceeding 650 MB$ Message-ID: <3b0b65ae@news.euriware>  J     Doesn't work cause VMS doesn't ask for a new volume on disks backup...  = "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> a crit dans le message news: $ tgktho57rkji39@news.supernews.com...B > There's another thread about this same issue.  I would try this: > 3 > Use a virtual disk driver to create a 650MB disk.  > Mount the disk /FOREIGN K > BACKUP to the disk and BACKUP will ask you to mount the next volume if it H > fills the first one.  At that point, burn the CD-R and then respond to	 > BACKUP.d > D > You could even create more than one virtual disk so the backup can continueK > while you're burning the CD-R (just make sure you don't overload the SCSIs > bus).o >n6 > "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote in message" > news:3b0a1275$1@news.euriware... > >     Hello, > >rK > >     I'm looking for a solution to make savesets not exceeding 650 MB ont auL > > customized system disk. The idea is to make multiple CDs of the disk and > to? > > be able to restore them on a disk after booting the VMS cd.k > >r > >     Any idea?e > >e > >p >c >o   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 07:23:14 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162 (Wayne Sewell)l* Subject: Re: savesets not exceeding 650 MB. Message-ID: <9IcacRsjgubD@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  W In article <tgktho57rkji39@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:sB > There's another thread about this same issue.  I would try this: > 3 > Use a virtual disk driver to create a 650MB disk.r > Mount the disk /FOREIGNhK > BACKUP to the disk and BACKUP will ask you to mount the next volume if itdH > fills the first one.  At that point, burn the CD-R and then respond to	 > BACKUP.o > M > You could even create more than one virtual disk so the backup can continue K > while you're burning the CD-R (just make sure you don't overload the SCSIi > bus).a >   M If you're in a cluster, you could always do the backup on one node and the cdmO burning on another, as long as the disk containing the virtual disks is cluster  mounted.   -- sO ===============================================================================tM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxi: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)rO =============================================================================== K Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!!RO    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:04:11 -0400e- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> * Subject: Re: savesets not exceeding 650 MB( Message-ID: <3B0BED85.DA923F1C@ohio.edu>  I I believe it will ask for new volumes if you have mounted the destination M /FOREIGN and put the saveset file into [000000].  Used to work with RA-81 -->r RA-60s.a                           RDPr    
 Pbo wrote:  L >     Doesn't work cause VMS doesn't ask for a new volume on disks backup... > ? > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> a crit dans le message news:o& > tgktho57rkji39@news.supernews.com...D > > There's another thread about this same issue.  I would try this: > >h5 > > Use a virtual disk driver to create a 650MB disk.  > > Mount the disk /FOREIGNuM > > BACKUP to the disk and BACKUP will ask you to mount the next volume if itoJ > > fills the first one.  At that point, burn the CD-R and then respond to > > BACKUP.$ > >nF > > You could even create more than one virtual disk so the backup can
 > continueM > > while you're burning the CD-R (just make sure you don't overload the SCSI!	 > > bus).  > >t8 > > "Pbo" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote in message$ > > news:3b0a1275$1@news.euriware... > > >     Hello, > > >eM > > >     I'm looking for a solution to make savesets not exceeding 650 MB ona > asN > > > customized system disk. The idea is to make multiple CDs of the disk and > > toA > > > be able to restore them on a disk after booting the VMS cd.h > > >o > > >     Any idea?d > > >l > > >e > >t > >o   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:54:37 +0100e  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com! Subject: SPAWN vs. system() in C.tH Message-ID: <OFDBCDE1A5.137EDAE0-ON80256A55.00469AFA@qedi.quintiles.com>  B I understand that a call to lib$spawn from within a C program willG propagate the privilege mask of the current process but I can't seem to.B find out whether the C system() call will do the same.  Any ideas?  I Also, from the chunk of code that I've kludged from Compaq's DSN databaseoG the priv's are propagated to the authorized privs not the current privssE when calling lib$spawn.  Is there a suitable way to get them into thePF current privs mask if one is installing the executable with SYSPRV and5 doing a one line DCL command (like DIR/SIZE=ALL/GRANDu" [directory.directory...]*.*;* ) ??   TIAo Steve.   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:12:22 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>% Subject: Re: SPAWN vs. system() in C.8J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105231507570.12223-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  5 On Wed, 23 May 2001 steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:   D >+I understand that a call to lib$spawn from within a C program willI >+propagate the privilege mask of the current process but I can't seem totD >+find out whether the C system() call will do the same.  Any ideas?  + ..because "system()" uses "lib$spawn" -;) ?w  Really, that IS spawn !  K >+Also, from the chunk of code that I've kludged from Compaq's DSN database:I >+the priv's are propagated to the authorized privs not the current privs:G >+when calling lib$spawn.  Is there a suitable way to get them into theo >+current privs mask    HELP RTL LIB$ LIB$SPAWN [...]y4            LIB$SPAWN  [command-string] [,input-file]=                       [,output-file] [,flags] [,process-name]d@                       [,process-id] [,completion-status-address] [...]e -> arguments [...]s
         flagsCI            Flag bits that designate optional behavior. The flags argumentn [...] #            Bit  Symbol      Meaning, [...].K            7    AUTHPRIV    If this bit is set, the subprocess inherits theoJ                             caller's authorized privileges. If this bit isI                             clear, the spawned processes' authorized maskdI                             is set equal to the caller's current (active)e+                             privilege mask.c [...]r   >+TIAk >+Steve.    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E =====================================================================uF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEy. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================d   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 08:25:42 GMT7 From: Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann)R Subject: Re: sys$trnlnmn0 Message-ID: <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-Umt78qRbM5ZM@Tom2>  
 thank you allh   Thomas Hahnemann   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:10:57 +0100r0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>8 Subject: Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants* Message-ID: <3B0BD301.D02EFD8F@uk.sun.com>   David Mathog wrote:  > _ > In article <3B0541CD.17B93E27@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:  > >Bill Todd wrote:mN > >> Which is exactly what file system expansion does when used in conjunctionJ > >> with a logical volume manager (or hardware RAID device) that allows aB > >> logical volume to be expanded on the fly by adding new disks. > >> > >DD > >Which is what I was refering to. All the LVM's that we support onA > >Solaris allow you to add a new piece of storage to an existingwB > >volume and then both major filesystems also allow you to expand > >into it.s > L > Right.  And what _we're_ saying is that you've been able to do this on VMSM > forever.  Except that you don't expand a file system on VMS, you just mountnE > the whole disk and maybe bind it into a volume set.  If you want to F > restrict usage to part of the disk you use disk quotas.  VMS doesn'tM > partition disks and honestly I've never seen any reason to do so on this OSxI > - it's a Unix/ Windows thing with no utility on VMS.  Well, it might be M > useful if you wanted a dual boot system with one disk, but disks are now so M > cheap it's easier just to put in another drive.  And it was never necessarykJ > for things like "swap" which used to need (and usually still have) their > own disk partitions on Unix. >   + I am not talking about partitioning disks. t  > I am refering to the ability to take say a filesystem mounted D on a logical volume that is for example one whole disk, add another < disk to the logical volume to make the logical volume larger8 and then to make the filesystem grow into the new space & without taking the filesystem offline.   Regardsf
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   -- i Andrew Harrisong Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 14:52:45 GMT From: System@nospam.comu6 Subject: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?* Message-ID: <9egirt$90r$1@news.netmar.com>   Hi,t  M Thank you for the answers about backup/interchange. I didn't look at the helpo enough carefully.o  E Now, I need to know why an AlphaStation with DECnet OSI and TCP/IP V5aM absolutely wants to do "over IP" transport. I wish to "talk" to another AlphadK using normal DECnet and of course it doesn't work because the target system , does not understand "over IP" encapsulation.  I When I do a Set host on the Phase IV system, the cursor hangs and nothingtJ happens. When I go the other way, the Phase IV system says "remote node is> unreachable". But Set host 0 works fine on the Phase V system.  K What should I do to tell DECnet OSI to not use "over IP" but only DECnet IVfG routing, and still have TCP/IP on to be able to do TELNET if necessary?   
 Thank you. SM m  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----rM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups I    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsoL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:23:15 -0500 0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>: Subject: RE: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?C Message-ID: <MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHEEANEFAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>a  H My guess is that there is a problem with either the DECnet setup on yourL target machine or routing ( if routing is being used ).  DECnet over IP willL always use the DECnet path first before failing over to IP.  Are you able to% go DECnet over IP to the target node?t     -----Original Message-----2 From: System@nospam.com [mailto:System@nospam.com]% Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:53 AMa To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd6 Subject: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?     Hi,f  H Thank you for the answers about backup/interchange. I didn't look at the help enough carefully.   E Now, I need to know why an AlphaStation with DECnet OSI and TCP/IP V5rG absolutely wants to do "over IP" transport. I wish to "talk" to anothere AlphapK using normal DECnet and of course it doesn't work because the target system , does not understand "over IP" encapsulation.  I When I do a Set host on the Phase IV system, the cursor hangs and nothingaJ happens. When I go the other way, the Phase IV system says "remote node is> unreachable". But Set host 0 works fine on the Phase V system.  K What should I do to tell DECnet OSI to not use "over IP" but only DECnet IVaG routing, and still have TCP/IP on to be able to do TELNET if necessary?h  
 Thank you. SM  D  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the	 eb  -----tF   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postssL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:07:05 +0100a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>n: Subject: Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?) Message-ID: <3B0BE029.68CCD6A1@bbc.co.uk>    System@nospam.com wrote:   > Hi,a > O > Thank you for the answers about backup/interchange. I didn't look at the helpo > enough carefully.r > G > Now, I need to know why an AlphaStation with DECnet OSI and TCP/IP V5 O > absolutely wants to do "over IP" transport. I wish to "talk" to another AlpharM > using normal DECnet and of course it doesn't work because the target system . > does not understand "over IP" encapsulation. >oK > When I do a Set host on the Phase IV system, the cursor hangs and nothing-L > happens. When I go the other way, the Phase IV system says "remote node is@ > unreachable". But Set host 0 works fine on the Phase V system. >-M > What should I do to tell DECnet OSI to not use "over IP" but only DECnet IVhI > routing, and still have TCP/IP on to be able to do TELNET if necessary?g >D  K Presumably you have only Decnet over IP configured. You need to add a LOCALCK or DECDns  (not preferred). Still trying to remember the NCL to check this,mM but did you try @sys$update:net$configure then select option 2, change namings# information. It should then ask youc  D * Enter the directory services to use on the system [LOCAL,DOMAIN] :  J where the stuff in square brackets is the currently configured value. What1 do you get ? I'm guessing you only have [DOMAIN].o   regards)     >t > Thank you. > SM >wQ >  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----aO >   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups K >    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts N > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.v   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 16:00:22 GMT# From: didier.morandi@pachacamac.com : Subject: Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?* Message-ID: <9egmqm$bu4$1@news.netmar.com>  F In article <9egirt$90r$1@news.netmar.com>, <System@nospam.com> writes:  J >When I do a Set host on the Phase IV system, the cursor hangs and nothingK >happens. When I go the other way, the Phase IV system says "remote node ise? >unreachable". But Set host 0 works fine on the Phase V system.r  J I removed PWIP, stopped TCP/IP, stopped DECnet, rebooted and now it works.   SM  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----pM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsaI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postssL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:16:12 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger): Subject: Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2305011216120001@user-2ivecbp.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <9egirt$90r$1@news.netmar.com>, System@nospam.com wrote:    > Hi,7 > O > Thank you for the answers about backup/interchange. I didn't look at the help- > enough carefully.e > G > Now, I need to know why an AlphaStation with DECnet OSI and TCP/IP V5oO > absolutely wants to do "over IP" transport. I wish to "talk" to another Alpha>M > using normal DECnet and of course it doesn't work because the target system . > does not understand "over IP" encapsulation. > K > When I do a Set host on the Phase IV system, the cursor hangs and nothingaL > happens. When I go the other way, the Phase IV system says "remote node is@ > unreachable". But Set host 0 works fine on the Phase V system.  : SET HOST nodename doesn't work.  What happens when you do  SET HOST LOCAL:.nodename ?  D If this works, it probably means you've got DECnet configured to tryG decnet-over-tcpip first.  This has to do with the way the naming searchh? path is configured.  The LOCAL:. syntax forces use of the locale? namespace.  SET HOST accepts this syntax, but many older decnet  applications don't.0  , NCL> show session control naming search path  G will give some possibly useful information, at least if I've rememberedt2 the syntax correctly.  I think I'm at least close.    M > What should I do to tell DECnet OSI to not use "over IP" but only DECnet IVoI > routing, and still have TCP/IP on to be able to do TELNET if necessary?-  F You can run the decnet configuration utility, and specify LOCAL as the4 only namespace.  You probably have LOCAL,DOMAIN now.  J Removing the DOMAIN namespace in decnet-plus will not affect telnet, which has nothing to do with DECnet.  < But it would be better to fix your DECnet-plus setup so that- decnet-over-tcpip will work when you need it.s   -- w Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:26:38 +0100k- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>m: Subject: Re: Using DECnet Phase V without "over IP" stuff?( Message-ID: <3B0BE4BE.7A9C51D@bbc.co.uk>   Robert Deininger wrote:t   >n >i. > NCL> show session control naming search path >'I > will give some possibly useful information, at least if I've remembered 4 > the syntax correctly.  I think I'm at least close. >k  ) It works on my only phase V system, FWIW.r     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukh  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofw MedAS or the BBC.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:28:40 GMTs8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)) Subject: Re: VAX motif V1.2-6 kit problem=2 Message-ID: <cWOO6.652$fi2.15415@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 In article <1010522163544.26446B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, n" John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:1 >Last week I received my new Motif kit (on TK50).- >-C >There is only one tape in the kit (and only one listed on the BOM)c= >and it only has the VMSINSTAL version of the kit on it.  The5? >VMSINSTAL version refuses to install on V6.1 or later (or willl? >only install on V6.1 or early, I'm not sure and I don't care.)I >a= >I need the PCSI version for VMS 7.x (currently V7.1 at work, ? >but I am planning to upgrade to V7.3 as soon as I receive it.)  ..; >I know I should take this up with the support channel, buts- >asking on the news group seems less painful.m  D John -- It sounds like you did not get what your orderd (or wanted).4 By all means, take this up with the support channel.  A FYI, OpenVMS VAX V7.3 will be the last OpenVMS release that shipsM@ on TK50 or open-reel mag tape.  If your VAX supports SCSI, add a> CD-ROM drive -- you will be much happier!  If you cannot put a@ CD-ROM on your VAX, you will need to find a way to copy CD kits @ to a disk on your system.  If you have a local net that includes@ OpenVMS systems that DO have CD-ROM, a network copy is possible.E Otherwise, you may be looking at developing your own "sneaker-net" -- C take disk to system B; copy CD to disk; take disk back to your VAX.1   -- eK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAnH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:50:57 -0400n  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com) Subject: Re: VAX motif V1.2-6 kit problem=4 Message-ID: <C2256A55.004B28AA.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   Charlie,  - Why did you omit "Infoserver" from your list?e   -Norm         % hammond@not on 05/23/2001 09:28:40 AMp   Please respond to hammond@not    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:-* Subject:  Re: VAX motif V1.2-6 kit problem        6 In article <1010522163544.26446B-100000@Ives.egh.com>," John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:1 >Last week I received my new Motif kit (on TK50).. >nC >There is only one tape in the kit (and only one listed on the BOM)r= >and it only has the VMSINSTAL version of the kit on it.  The ? >VMSINSTAL version refuses to install on V6.1 or later (or willo? >only install on V6.1 or early, I'm not sure and I don't care.)k >g= >I need the PCSI version for VMS 7.x (currently V7.1 at work,e? >but I am planning to upgrade to V7.3 as soon as I receive it.)  . ; >I know I should take this up with the support channel, butk- >asking on the news group seems less painful.V  D John -- It sounds like you did not get what your orderd (or wanted).4 By all means, take this up with the support channel.  A FYI, OpenVMS VAX V7.3 will be the last OpenVMS release that ships @ on TK50 or open-reel mag tape.  If your VAX supports SCSI, add a> CD-ROM drive -- you will be much happier!  If you cannot put a? CD-ROM on your VAX, you will need to find a way to copy CD kits0@ to a disk on your system.  If you have a local net that includes@ OpenVMS systems that DO have CD-ROM, a network copy is possible.E Otherwise, you may be looking at developing your own "sneaker-net" --rC take disk to system B; copy CD to disk; take disk back to your VAX.e   --K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:47:02 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)) Subject: Re: VAX motif V1.2-6 kit problem 2 Message-ID: <G3QO6.665$fi2.15693@news.cpqcorp.net>  W In article <C2256A55.004B28AA.00@jklh21.valmet.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:.  . >Why did you omit "Infoserver" from your list?   Not intentional.  A Not all VAXes can boot from the network, so an InfoServer boot is,? not a solution in all cases.  However, once booted, any VAX canp@ be connected to the network and access InfoServer devices.  One > can copy kits from an InfoServer CD-ROM to a disk -- including /IMAGE copies.   -- sK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAcH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:31:13 -0400H  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com  Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2h4 and y2k4 Message-ID: <C2256A55.0043DF52.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  N Doug is quite correct.  There is always a list of "Rating 1" patches that needJ to be applied after an upgrade to any version and almost always "Rating 2"L patches as well, depending, and you might need some "Rating 3" patches, too.? [This probably will apply to V7.3 almost immediately, as well.]n  J There is an article on which patches should/should not be applied that you should track down.   O The answer to the question about the Y2K patch did not imply that other patchess were not required.          / dmallory@interlog.com on 05/22/2001 11:54:57 PMa  ' Please respond to dmallory@interlog.come   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comn cc: ! Subject:  Re: VMS 5.5-2h4 and y2k>            ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:e  3 > IIRC, the y2k patches are for any 5.5-2* variant.m> > the h4 is a hardware-specific subversion and the y2k patches) > should be hardware-variant-independent. 0 > This is not, however, an authoritative answer. >o. > coconut@netway.com on 05/15/2001 12:34:59 PM >w& > Please respond to coconut@netway.com >i > To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  > cc:i > Subject:  VMS 5.5-2h4 and y2kd > M > First, much thanks to the kindness of list members in providing me with theo vms 5 > 5.5-2h4 upgrade.  It appears very simple to handle.  >tP > Does anyone know of y2k fixes for the h4 upgrade, or will the ones applied for > 5.5-2 be sufficient? >t > Dan Graham  M 5.5-2h4 is an early version of the more up to date 5.5-2. The Y2K patches arev theeO same, however the patches break stuff, and you will require at least the f11xqpiP patch or your disk will get screwed up in such a way that backup/image can crashM your system. I have seen this one many times in the field. There is one othere patchiP that installed after the Y2k patch as well, but can't recall, but think it was a
 CLI patch.  	 Good lucki Doug.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:49:00 GMTm1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>o  Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2h4 and y2k2 Message-ID: <3B0BDD1F.C69B73E2@clarityconnect.com>  A This is incorrect.  The sequence of versions is V5.5-2HW, V5.5-2,eF V5.5-2H4.  V5.5-2H4 is a LATER version than V5.5-2 and includes all ofH V5.5-2 plus extras.  You need to install any kits applicable to V5.5-2H4F and there are kits that apply to all V5.5-2 flavors and some kits that are just for V5.5-2H4.   Doug Mallory wrote:  > S > 5.5-2h4 is an early version of the more up to date 5.5-2. The Y2K patches are theoQ > same, however the patches break stuff, and you will require at least the f11xqp$R > patch or your disk will get screwed up in such a way that backup/image can crashU > your system. I have seen this one many times in the field. There is one other patch R > that installed after the Y2k patch as well, but can't recall, but think it was a > CLI patch. >  > Good luckn > Doug.D   -- nD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:31:33 -0400s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>lN Subject: Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc2 Message-ID: <KBRO6.671$fi2.15630@news.cpqcorp.net>  L A humorous aside.  I've gotten at least one mail message from someones emailL nanny filter complaining about the title and telling me fun/unusual hardware! was classified as dirty words ;-)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:41:08 -0400N  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com; Subject: Website white paper questions (DEC/EDI and others?-4 Message-ID: <C2256A55.00553E69.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  F The following reference came up when I sight-searched OpenVMS for "DE= C/EDI".oF It includes DEC/EDI only as a trademark of Digital Equipment Corp. bu=	 t with noa reference in the text.  F Except for the software compatibility matrix, no reference to DEC/EDI=
  exists on
 this Website.   F It also lists the Spiralog file system as an area of enhancement for = OpenVMS.  E I did not read it all to see what else might be less than current....O  8 The revision date, as can be seen below, is 17-May-2001.   What is going on here?F                                                                      =
           =20iF  Compaq.com - Enterprise Computing - OpenVMS Systems                 =
           =20 F       United States=A0=A0=A0=A0 OpenVMS Software Strategy. Executive = summary. Digital  =20DF       is teaming with Microsoft Corporation to develop an integrated.=
           =20tF       http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/WHITEPAPERS/ovms_strategy=
 /ovms_stra=20tF       tegy.html                                                      =
           =20hF       Revised 17-May-2001 - page size 48K - in English               =
           =20sF                                                                      =
           =20V   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:27:10 -0400l- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> ? Subject: Re: Website white paper questions (DEC/EDI and others?-- Message-ID: <3B0BE4DE.AA0FC62D@bellsouth.net>e  R From what I can tell, DEC/EDI is a dead product.  So few people use it that it wasL not worth the investment to keep it going.  I have a client  that still usesR DEC/EDI, but only on a VAX.  I don't believe it was ever ported to Alpha, which isL why my client upgraded from a VAX4000/60 to a 4000/90 (a little faster, more memory).   Michael Austin8 Rdb/Oracle DBA Consultant -- Need one? -- Available now!  ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:s  N > The following reference came up when I sight-searched OpenVMS for "DEC/EDI".P > It includes DEC/EDI only as a trademark of Digital Equipment Corp. but with no > reference in the text. >oQ > Except for the software compatibility matrix, no reference to DEC/EDI exists onw > this Website.I >tO > It also lists the Spiralog file system as an area of enhancement for OpenVMS.  >dG > I did not read it all to see what else might be less than current....n >s: > The revision date, as can be seen below, is 17-May-2001. >e > What is going on here? > 6 >  Compaq.com - Enterprise Computing - OpenVMS SystemsO >       United States     OpenVMS Software Strategy. Executive summary. DigitaleG >       is teaming with Microsoft Corporation to develop an integrated.lQ >       http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/WHITEPAPERS/ovms_strategy/ovms_straa >       tegy.htmlb8 >       Revised 17-May-2001 - page size 48K - in English >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:56:30 GMTh& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>2 Subject: Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?> Message-ID: <OzNO6.294880$o9.45869274@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  K Actually, after a very quick look, this product appears very interesting toeG me.  We are trying to replace an aging (ancient) bisynch communications H system, but FTP is just too insecure and manual.  The restart capabilityI alone might be worth the price of the product to me.  Thank you very much  for pointing it out to me.    5 "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> wrote in messageN1 news:9GzO6.24830$iC1.821033@news6.giganews.com...hC > I must be fairly dense today.... does this product fulfill a needi > that nothing else can ?t > " > http://www.compaq.com/emea/ftso/ >r > Just wondering.... >  > -Andy- >h >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:55:40 +0100@- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 2 Subject: Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?) Message-ID: <3B0BA53C.15D0007F@bbc.co.uk>    >  Andy Stoffel wrote: >TE > > I must be fairly dense today.... does this product fulfill a need  > > that nothing else can ?e > >-$ > > http://www.compaq.com/emea/ftso/ > >t > > Just wondering.... > >r
 > > -Andy-  @ Hey, I remember downgrading from that sort of functionality when? Coloured Books went out of fashion in the late 80's (sorry, fora3 people with uk academic computing background only).h   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of- MedAS or the BBC.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:06:15 +0100t  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com2 Subject: Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?H Message-ID: <OF26565BBC.615358FA-ON80256A55.0041E1A7@qedi.quintiles.com>  K You should know by now Tim that there's rarely anything new in the world of)
 computing.F Microsoft invented command line completion for example in one of theirC recent products, conveniently forgetting that the functionality was<< included in Digital operating systems at least 15 years ago.  K One thing that the company formerly known as Digital was really good at wastI developing software that was ahead of its time or with functionality thattH was taken for granted and then quietly dropped as the software was taken$ across to "non-legacy" environments.  K It then provides a justification for an upgrade to the new environment whensF the functionality that we were using is ported to that new environmentI because you know (in the above example) that it's really worth your whileW@ to "upgrade" so that you get command line completion back again.   Steve.   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >>>n@ Hey, I remember downgrading from that sort of functionality when? Coloured Books went out of fashion in the late 80's (sorry, for,3 people with uk academic computing background only).y <<<n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:20:52 +0100i- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 2 Subject: Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?) Message-ID: <3B0BAB24.C38B0FFE@bbc.co.uk>t  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:g  M > One thing that the company formerly known as Digital was really good at wasmK > developing software that was ahead of its time or with functionality that J > was taken for granted and then quietly dropped as the software was taken& > across to "non-legacy" environments.  F yes, consequently when "the VAX" is down people scream blue murder but; when the blue screen strikes they just go down the pub :-).L --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uks  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:26:36 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <Agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>l2 Subject: Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?+ Message-ID: <3B0BBA8C.B5D183D1@hsc.vcu.edu>e   You got that right!!!!!@   Tim Llewellyn wrote:  # > steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:e >oO > > One thing that the company formerly known as Digital was really good at wastM > > developing software that was ahead of its time or with functionality that.L > > was taken for granted and then quietly dropped as the software was taken( > > across to "non-legacy" environments. >tH > yes, consequently when "the VAX" is down people scream blue murder but= > when the blue screen strikes they just go down the pub :-).n > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uka >nC > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of2 > MedAS or the BBC.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:21:19 +0100n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>I2 Subject: Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?8 Message-ID: <vbhngt899h0fp7ockj1378jvjbgmo35gec@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 23 May 2001 12:55:40 +0100, Tim Llewellyn   <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:   >s >  >t >  >>  Andy Stoffel wrote:l >>F >> > I must be fairly dense today.... does this product fulfill a need >> > that nothing else can ? >> >% >> > http://www.compaq.com/emea/ftso/i >> > >> > Just wondering....s >> > >> > -Andy-. >IA >Hey, I remember downgrading from that sort of functionality when @ >Coloured Books went out of fashion in the late 80's (sorry, for4 >people with uk academic computing background only).  E Blue Book (don't mention UFOs)  specifically if memory serves (and itlE may well not!) UCCA/PCAS/UCAS/whatever-they-are-today (UK centralized.F higher education admission scheme) insisted on coloured book protocols@ until about 1996 or so.  FTSO does appear to provide the missingF functionality from TCP/IP. I can recall this functionality existing in, extensions to ANF-10 under TOPS-10 in 1980.   = Better late than never so I can certainly see a use for this.o -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:07:15 +0100k% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 2 Subject: Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?8 Message-ID: <16kngt06gs5b14vq9skpebknpfgomi5hm2@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:06:15 +0100, steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:e   >w >nL >It then provides a justification for an upgrade to the new environment whenG >the functionality that we were using is ported to that new environment:J >because you know (in the above example) that it's really worth your whileA >to "upgrade" so that you get command line completion back again.   @ The absence of command line completion from VMS was a deliberateC "non-goal". I'd consider it more of an "own-goal". I understand the A argument about cpu resources required but, prior to the even more0D resource intensive workaround of cut and past windows, it was almostE essential for long file names. C-Kermit makes a good job of providing / full command and filename completion under VMS.t  @ Command completion was in Tenex - the forerunner of TOPS-20 - onC PDP-10s back in 1969. TOPS-20 added the functionality directly intoo: the operating system with the CMND% jsys back around 1975. >. >Steve.I >e >Tim Llewellyn wrote:V >>>>A >Hey, I remember downgrading from that sort of functionality whens@ >Coloured Books went out of fashion in the late 80's (sorry, for4 >people with uk academic computing background only). ><<<   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 10:16:10 -0700* From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham)1 Subject: Will OpenVMS 6.2 support 18 & 36GB disksa; Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0105230916.ebe25e0@posting.google.com>.  0 Will Open VMS support 18GB and 36 GB data disks?  C Is there anything special needed to init these disks when migrating 7 from 9 GB drives to 18 or 36 GB via backup/image/noinitu   Regards, victor.mendham@emergis.com   ------------------------------   Date: 23 May 2001 02:05 CDTp' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t@ Subject: Re: [DCPS] Page accounting for color laser PS printers?- Message-ID: <23MAY200102051633@gerg.tamu.edu>-  4 paul.r.anderson@compaq.com (Paul Anderson) writes...I }In article <OF646AD35D.57980E03-ON80256A54.00339F11@qedi.quintiles.com>,"" }steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: } H }> By pages interpreted, does this mean that a job printed from VMS withL }> /PARAMETER=NUMBER_UP=2 would count two pages interpreted for one physical }> page printed? } H }No.  DCPS reformats two pages of output to appear on one page and sinceK }only one PostScript 'showpage' command is issued, it counts as one page no2$ }matter what the value of NUMBER_UP. }  }Paul.  @ What happens with duplex printing? One sheet of paper printed on? two sides. It'll have two "showpage" commands, but it won't useoB two sheets of paper. I suspect that it counts as two pages anyway.C If you use a dedicated duplex execution queue you can tell by queue B name, but that wouldn't catch the person who does a /param=sides=2C manually or a generic queue set up for it as the accounting recordsiC don't appear to store any parameter list and only store the name oft the execution queue.  B I suspect that the accounting for this sort of thing is inadequate= to anyone actually interested in tracking supply usage in any,> detailed way. Not only the duplex printing thing, but there is> also no "percent coverage", or equivalent, indicating how much> toner was used. Thus printing lots of high-whitespace text vs.: printing lots of full page graphics is not differentiated.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:59:26 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)y@ Subject: Re: [DCPS] Page accounting for color laser PS printers?0 Message-ID: <009FC6D5.FCA6CE4B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <23MAY200102051633@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:t5 >paul.r.anderson@compaq.com (Paul Anderson) writes... J >}In article <OF646AD35D.57980E03-ON80256A54.00339F11@qedi.quintiles.com>,# >}steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:m >} iI >}> By pages interpreted, does this mean that a job printed from VMS withjM >}> /PARAMETER=NUMBER_UP=2 would count two pages interpreted for one physical  >}> page printed?e >} iI >}No.  DCPS reformats two pages of output to appear on one page and sincetL >}only one PostScript 'showpage' command is issued, it counts as one page no% >}matter what the value of NUMBER_UP.e >} o >}Paul >uA >What happens with duplex printing? One sheet of paper printed on:@ >two sides. It'll have two "showpage" commands, but it won't useC >two sheets of paper. I suspect that it counts as two pages anyway.t  C Perhaps one of the reasons that my LNC02 web interface reports botho sheets and faces printed.h   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs            rO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:08:01 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com@ Subject: Re: [DCPS] Page accounting for color laser PS printers?H Message-ID: <OF8630077D.072C0009-ON80256A55.0036C8C8@qedi.quintiles.com>   Carl Perkins commented : >>> @ What happens with duplex printing? One sheet of paper printed on? two sides. It'll have two "showpage" commands, but it won't useMB two sheets of paper. I suspect that it counts as two pages anyway. <<<yJ I would expect that this happens and would consider it reasonable.  You'veI used only one sheet of paper but hey, there's the wear on the printer andL1 the toner, plus the electricity to run the thing.2   >>>xC If you use a dedicated duplex execution queue you can tell by queue B name, but that wouldn't catch the person who does a /param=sides=2C manually or a generic queue set up for it as the accounting recordseC don't appear to store any parameter list and only store the name of  the execution queue. <<<tE True, but if you have one queue for duplex printing and one queue forlJ non-duplex printing then someone who does a manual /PARAM=SIDES=2 may needJ to be re-informed anyway.  Not a useful answer when the person is the boss# or the boss's boss but that's life.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:35:10 -0400 0 From: paul.r.anderson@compaq.com (Paul Anderson)@ Subject: Re: [DCPS] Page accounting for color laser PS printers?P Message-ID: <paul.r.anderson-2305011235100001@dhcp-16-21-34-107.eng.lkg.dec.com>  F In article <23MAY200102051633@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:1  B > What happens with duplex printing? One sheet of paper printed onA > two sides. It'll have two "showpage" commands, but it won't useu > two sheets of paper.  I I suspect different printer manufacturers implement this differently, but H the GENICOM IntelliPrint printers (their own models plus the Compaq LN32E and LNM40) keep track of both sides and pages printed.  DCPS will use J 'sheetcount' if available; this is the number of pieces of paper printed. G If this isn't available, DCPS will use 'pagecount' instead; this is ther number of sides printed.  D > I suspect that the accounting for this sort of thing is inadequate? > to anyone actually interested in tracking supply usage in any/@ > detailed way. Not only the duplex printing thing, but there is@ > also no "percent coverage", or equivalent, indicating how much@ > toner was used. Thus printing lots of high-whitespace text vs.< > printing lots of full page graphics is not differentiated.  B PrintServer printers allowed you to determine your own formula for: billing, that took into account pages, sides and CPU time.  B I think most people want to bill for the number of physical sheetsE printed, and this is what DCPS tries to count.  But as you point out,=E billing by physical sheets printed does not account for toner use for E simplex vs. duplex jobs, much less measuring how much toner was used.M   Paul   -- t
 Paul Anderson=  OpenVMS Engineering  Compaq Computer Corporation   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 10:23:52 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)0 Subject: [TCPIP V5.1 ECO 1] RSH crashes system ?* Message-ID: <3b0b7398$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  H Tonight I installed TCPIP V5.1 on my last system, and voila, a few hours2 later I've my first (and 2nd) crash (since years):  A **** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.2-1   - BUGCHECK ****   L ** Bugcheck code = 000003C4: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception< ** Crash CPU: 00    Primary CPU: 00    Active CPUs: 00000001" ** Current Process = TCPIP$INETACP ** Current PSB ID = 00000001A ** Image Name = DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]TCPIP$INETACP.EXE;1D6 **** Writing dump to HBVS member with unit number of 0F **** Starting compressed selective memory dump at 23-MAY-2001 10:18...  : All I did, was a RSH _to_ the system (to get a DECterm)...  G Why oh why does it happen only on this machine (RSH servers works on my0 other systems with V5.1-151) ??o   jfi    --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.284 ************************