1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 24 May 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 286       Contents: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq9 Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com ; Re: Active Directory Add-on for Win9x and NT4 and VMS Samba  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations & Re: Alphaserver 300 and OpenVMS V7.2-1& Re: Alphaserver 300 and OpenVMS V7.2-1( Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?( Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS? Re: comp.os.vms archives ? Re: Compile TAE on VMS Re: Cry for help here... DCL: Product show History   !!" Re: DCL: Product show History   !!% Re: defining pseudo interfaces for IP % Re: defining pseudo interfaces for IP % Re: defining pseudo interfaces for IP % Re: defining pseudo interfaces for IP = Re: FW: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com 6 Re: help: -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full6 Re: help: -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full% Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT? % Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT? % Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT? % Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT?  Microsoft and Lockeed  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed  MOP/LAD across routers?  Re: MOP/LAD across routers?  Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq OpenVMS Contract Re: OpenVMS Contract Re: Opera browser  Re: Oracle 8.1.6 SQLLIB.OLB % Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only % Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only % Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only % Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only % RE: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only  Re: Oracle x NATO  Re: Oracle x NATO  Re: Oracle x NATO " Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing& Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?& Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?& Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?& Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?& Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?& Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?5 Retrofit Patches (Was: Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2) ! RE: savesets not exceeding 650 MB  Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2  Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2  Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2  Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2  Re: Stop a "lost process" / Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants / Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants / Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants % Re: This will add a smile to your day % Re: This will add a smile to your day % Re: This will add a smile to your day % Re: This will add a smile to your day % Re: This will add a smile to your day  Re: VMS<->RSTS& Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question& Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question& Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question& Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question& Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question& Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware question) Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:34:46 -0400 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> ! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq $ Message-ID: <3b0d1c1e$1@news.si.com>  L >According to data gathered via the advocacy tool, 85 percent of respondentsL >would pay a 2X Wintel workstation price premium for an AlphaStation runningK >a REAL OS; 12 percent would pay 3X. Since workstation .ne. entry Presario, & >the $2.5K-$3K price point might work.  L Again, that "2X" factor is bogus because there was no lower value from whichJ to choose.  Compaq didn't ALLOW any lower value in answer to the question. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:47:12 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq < Message-ID: <Q99P6.3082$zl5.1180232@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3b0d1c1e$1@news.si.com...B > >According to data gathered via the advocacy tool, 85 percent of respondents F > >would pay a 2X Wintel workstation price premium for an AlphaStation running C > >a REAL OS; 12 percent would pay 3X. Since workstation .ne. entry 	 Presario, ( > >the $2.5K-$3K price point might work. > H > Again, that "2X" factor is bogus because there was no lower value from which L > to choose.  Compaq didn't ALLOW any lower value in answer to the question.  L Put the blame where the blame should go. It was not "Compaq" who drafted theK question, it was the members of the Joint Advocacy Working Group (primarily " ITUG and DECUS/Encompass members).  A If the question comes up again (and that depends on the number of L submissions the topic generates) it would of course be possible to include aH "no price premium" answer category, but why bother? The likelihood of anK AlphaStation at an Intel price point is darn close to absolute zero. Volume " and economies of scale make it so.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 10:57:46 -05009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) ! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq 3 Message-ID: <Hol5aSLvVLB3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <878zjofynz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:= > kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:  > F >> Has any body read and understood the Privacy Policy??? Like signing >> a blank check?  > H > Wow, do you mean they HAVE one now?! I checked that on several visits,& > and it was, ah, not quite present...    L Bingo! [perhaps my previous comment needed some smiley or frown faces added, probably upside down for Paul]   )-:    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:28:40 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq ' Message-ID: <3B0D36B8.72821AD0@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > H > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message  > news:3b0d1c1e$1@news.si.com...D > > >According to data gathered via the advocacy tool, 85 percent of
 > respondents H > > >would pay a 2X Wintel workstation price premium for an AlphaStation	 > running E > > >a REAL OS; 12 percent would pay 3X. Since workstation .ne. entry  > Presario, * > > >the $2.5K-$3K price point might work. > > J > > Again, that "2X" factor is bogus because there was no lower value from > which N > > to choose.  Compaq didn't ALLOW any lower value in answer to the question. > N > Put the blame where the blame should go. It was not "Compaq" who drafted theM > question, it was the members of the Joint Advocacy Working Group (primarily $ > ITUG and DECUS/Encompass members). > C > If the question comes up again (and that depends on the number of N > submissions the topic generates) it would of course be possible to include aJ > "no price premium" answer category, but why bother? The likelihood of anM > AlphaStation at an Intel price point is darn close to absolute zero. Volume $ > and economies of scale make it so.  F When I read that, I was reminded of a former co-worker who interpreted& the Law of Supply and Demand this way:  B The customer demands it, so you supply it - that's how you stay in	 business.   0 A unique take on the concept, at the very least.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:03:08 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq < Message-ID: <g9bP6.3108$zl5.1210339@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B0D36B8.72821AD0@fsi.net...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > E > > If the question comes up again (and that depends on the number of F > > submissions the topic generates) it would of course be possible to	 include a L > > "no price premium" answer category, but why bother? The likelihood of anH > > AlphaStation at an Intel price point is darn close to absolute zero. Volume& > > and economies of scale make it so. > H > When I read that, I was reminded of a former co-worker who interpreted( > the Law of Supply and Demand this way: > D > The customer demands it, so you supply it - that's how you stay in > business.  > 2 > A unique take on the concept, at the very least.  J If a million customers a year demanded (and cut purchase orders for) a $1KK AlphaStation, Compaq might be able to cost-justify the effort. If it's just J 10K customers, it doesn't make economic sense. Given the dearth of desktopJ apps extant for VMS, the hypothetical million customers a year isn't gonna happen.   J Of course, Island Computer has some reasonably attractive prices if you're: willing to settle for less than state of the art hardware.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:09:20 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq ' Message-ID: <3B0D4040.B624FB84@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B0D36B8.72821AD0@fsi.net...  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > > > G > > > If the question comes up again (and that depends on the number of H > > > submissions the topic generates) it would of course be possible to > include a N > > > "no price premium" answer category, but why bother? The likelihood of anJ > > > AlphaStation at an Intel price point is darn close to absolute zero. > Volume( > > > and economies of scale make it so. > > J > > When I read that, I was reminded of a former co-worker who interpreted* > > the Law of Supply and Demand this way: > > F > > The customer demands it, so you supply it - that's how you stay in
 > > business.  > > 4 > > A unique take on the concept, at the very least. > L > If a million customers a year demanded (and cut purchase orders for) a $1KM > AlphaStation, Compaq might be able to cost-justify the effort. If it's just L > 10K customers, it doesn't make economic sense. Given the dearth of desktopL > apps extant for VMS, the hypothetical million customers a year isn't gonna	 > happen.   C On the other hand, if they put forth the webserver you suggested in C another posting at a price significantly below that of a comparable H NT-based solution, my feeling is that somewhat more than 10K folks mightC be interested (1 megafolks might be a stretch, initially at least).   L > Of course, Island Computer has some reasonably attractive prices if you're< > willing to settle for less than state of the art hardware.  ' The after-market is indeed most useful!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:15:56 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq < Message-ID: <glbP6.3156$zl5.1212610@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B0D4040.B624FB84@fsi.net...    > E > On the other hand, if they put forth the webserver you suggested in E > another posting at a price significantly below that of a comparable J > NT-based solution, my feeling is that somewhat more than 10K folks mightE > be interested (1 megafolks might be a stretch, initially at least).   3 Yeah, the webserver IMHO would be a very good idea!  > G > > Of course, Island Computer has some reasonably attractive prices if  you're> > > willing to settle for less than state of the art hardware. > ) > The after-market is indeed most useful!  >   = No doubt! And Island seems to have some pretty decent prices.    cheers,    terry s ( Who has no affiliation with Turner & Co.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 13:48:31 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) B Subject: Re: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com3 Message-ID: <Fk0NLDR2I3SX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <LIRO6.2268$zl5.754333@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > @ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message( > news:9egnmi$2p4l$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...= >> In article <wnDO6.546$zl5.447997@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, : >>  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >> |>  >> |> Dear Sir,  >> |> I >> |> It is your privilege to boycott anything you choose to boycott. But 
 > advisingK >> |> other Compaq customers to eschew a mechanism that you personally find H >> |> offensive or "inappropriate" is, at best, a questionable practice. >> >> Huh?? >>J >> I regularly recommend against using products, services and companies inJ >> many fields of endeavor.  I also recommend other products, services andD >> companies for use.  In the computing field, its a part of my job.J >> Expressing one's opinion  hardly seems to be "a questionable practice". > M > Indeed. Expressing one's opinion is in no way a questionable practice. IMHO N > boycotting a communications/feedback channel is inconsistent with expressingJ > an opinion. Absent a better mechanism, www.compaqworkinggroup.org is the5 > only channel available to the Compaq customer base.   F You are welcome to express your opinion.  My opinion is that there areF better channels available because they allow fair participation by allD and do not promote insecure computing practices.  But I will stop myF suggestions that people boycott www.compaqworkinggroup.org when othersM stop their suggestions that people participate in www.compaqworkinggroup.org.   N > Note that this concept worked well more than a decade ago when the DECUS VAX@ > SIG sponsored the SIR (system improvement request?) mechanism.  D As the last VAX SIG SIR coordinator, I will say that it did not workB all that well.  A much more efficient mechanism was the subsequentE "customer delighter" program from VMS Development.  But both of those  were limited by:  ! 	1) Only applying to VMS Software $ 	2) Only working for "small" efforts   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:00:34 -0700 B From: "Alexander G. Paoli" <alex.paoli.netconstruct.net@127.0.0.1>D Subject: Re: Active Directory Add-on for Win9x and NT4 and VMS Samba) Message-ID: <OyttZbB5AHA.996@tkmsftngp03>    Michael,  G AFAIK, the DSCLIENT only affects the locator process not Netbios. It is L allowing for downlevel clients to use DNS and LDAP to find the closest DC toL begin the RPC bind, then authentication. It is not changing the NBT binding,I thus communicating to a samba server should be fine. Netbios namespace is J not changed. I think though im not sure, but the DSCLIENT also changes theK transport to allow DNS lookups correctly to find SMB shares, don't quote meu on that.  4 DSCLIENT also add support for AD LDAP searches, FYI.   Cheers,p     -- Alexander G. Paoli& VP Technology, Chief Network Architect NetConstruct, Inc.   Reply to me by moving the "@".? "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> wrote in messageb* news:5uOO6.28$VD1.78322@news.uswest.net...I > If I install the Active Directory Add-on for Win9x and NT4 SP6a, will IaL > still be able to connect to my VMS Samba v1.19p4 server?  The Samba server > is a member server only. >  > --	 > Thanks,S > Mike Ober. >e >f >d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:38:28 +01000% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>0( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations8 Message-ID: <23ipgtgsi0upu1l2t1gih7fo5oagvgedkl@4ax.com>  5 On Wed, 23 May 2001 17:27:05 -0400, John Eisenschmidt  <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote:  >I agree, "affordable workstation" is not about what the executive runs on his desk. When I came here 2 years ago I knew NOTHING about OpenVMS (I still don't - I'm sure it shows), and all we had was one production server. Now, I couldn't talk the boss into spending 10,000$ to buy me a box to beat on and learn VMS. I know you're saying "if they threw you to the wolves the least they could do was buy you a box to beat on" but they didn't. That's just how life is.u >I' >Pretend that Alpha was a Sun E series.P > v >"Boss, will you spend 1000$ on a Blade 100 so I can learn how to use Solaris on a Sun?" The boss is going to say yes.  * www.islandco.com click on "low cost alpha"     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:30:46 -0500p1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations' Message-ID: <3B0D1B16.2C9137AD@fsi.net>e   Alan Greig wrote:q > 7 > On Wed, 23 May 2001 17:27:05 -0400, John Eisenschmidtt > <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote: > > >I agree, "affordable workstation" is not about what the executive runs on his desk. When I came here 2 years ago I knew NOTHING about OpenVMS (I still don't - I'm sure it shows), and all we had was one production server. Now, I couldn't talk the boss into spending 10,000$ to buy me a box to beat on and learn VMS. I know you're saying "if they threw you to the wolves the least they could do was buy you a box to beat on" but they didn't. That's just how life is.I > >e) > >Pretend that Alpha was a Sun E series.  > >tx > >"Boss, will you spend 1000$ on a Blade 100 so I can learn how to use Solaris on a Sun?" The boss is going to say yes. > , > www.islandco.com click on "low cost alpha"  D ...then, add a commercial VMS license, plus licenses for any layeredC products you might need (like a C compiler), and watch that quicklye shoot skyward again.  H "Cheap Alpha" is not the answer. Affordable OpenVMS and Layered ProductsB has been and will continue to be prerequisite to any real "OpenVMS
 Renaissance".    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:55:42 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations< Message-ID: <Oh9P6.3083$zl5.1182720@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B0D1B16.2C9137AD@fsi.net...   J > "Cheap Alpha" is not the answer. Affordable OpenVMS and Layered ProductsD > has been and will continue to be prerequisite to any real "OpenVMS > Renaissance".g  G Good point. But in the interim, if I had any intention of developing aniH OpenVMS app for commercial use, I'd use the Hobbyist License for initialJ development, then go out and buy the commercial OS kit when I was ready to launch my product.  H Further to the subject of affordability, I think a bundled low-end AlphaK (sounds like the UP1500 board again) with VMS and Apache would make a dandyqI secure Web server. Just the ticket for those cybermerchants who have been.% dot-bombed by less capable solutions.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 11:52:27 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations3 Message-ID: <UWMOJ4asltif@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  I > Good point. But in the interim, if I had any intention of developing anyJ > OpenVMS app for commercial use, I'd use the Hobbyist License for initialL > development, then go out and buy the commercial OS kit when I was ready to > launch my product.  @ I believe that approach is absolutely forbidden by the licensing" agreements, but I am not a lawyer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:24:33 +0100r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations8 Message-ID: <c89qgtop8cl2bjknochnukp9etuh6gmsab@4ax.com>  7 On Thu, 24 May 2001 09:30:46 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Alan Greig wrote: >> c8 >> On Wed, 23 May 2001 17:27:05 -0400, John Eisenschmidt >> <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote:h >> m>> >I agree, "affordable workstation" is not about what the executive runs on his desk. When I came here 2 years ago I knew NOTHING about OpenVMS (I still don't - I'm sure it shows), and all we had was one production server. Now, I couldn't talk the boss into spending 10,000$ to buy me a box to beat on and learn VMS. I know you're saying "if they threw you to the wolves the least they could do was buy you a box to beat on" but they didn't. That's just how life is. >> >* >> >Pretend that Alpha was a Sun E series. >> >y >> >"Boss, will you spend 1000$ on a Blade 100 so I can learn how to use Solaris on a Sun?" The boss is going to say yes.j >> R- >> www.islandco.com click on "low cost alpha"V >@E >...then, add a commercial VMS license, plus licenses for any layeredoD >products you might need (like a C compiler), and watch that quickly >shoot skyward again.(  A But for the stated purpose of  a "box to beat on and learn VMS" avE DECUS (still called that in the UK until 1st September) hobby licensetD would suffice. Otherwise base VMS license lists at $900 for this boxE on the Island price list and commercial single user C is about $1000.s> You could drop C if you could get by with the Alpha GNU C port: although I don't know how well that is supported any more.  I >"Cheap Alpha" is not the answer. Affordable OpenVMS and Layered Products C >has been and will continue to be prerequisite to any real "OpenVMSi >Renaissance".  , I don't disagree that this should be a goal.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:49:37 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>,( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations' Message-ID: <3B0D3BA1.F5281380@fsi.net>m   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3B0D1B16.2C9137AD@fsi.net...$ > L > > "Cheap Alpha" is not the answer. Affordable OpenVMS and Layered ProductsF > > has been and will continue to be prerequisite to any real "OpenVMS > > Renaissance".n > I > Good point. But in the interim, if I had any intention of developing an J > OpenVMS app for commercial use, I'd use the Hobbyist License for initialL > development, then go out and buy the commercial OS kit when I was ready to > launch my product.  F Mightn't Compaq's legal folks look cock-eyed at an ISV who purchases aG set of commercial licenses, then in less than, oh, 60 days or so, comesaE forward with an offering that obviously involved several man-years of  effort?p  E Tech. support for the development effort might also prove a challengeaB without suitable commercial agreements in place. The folks here inF c.o.v. are good - REAL good - but don't always have "all" the answers.  J > Further to the subject of affordability, I think a bundled low-end AlphaM > (sounds like the UP1500 board again) with VMS and Apache would make a dandyJK > secure Web server. Just the ticket for those cybermerchants who have been ' > dot-bombed by less capable solutions./  F Sure - if the various hiccups reported in this NG and others with CSWS3 (Apache), Java, etc. can be sorted out effectively.s   IMHO...t   -- e David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:50:56 GMTf4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations< Message-ID: <QZaP6.3107$zl5.1207258@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message- news:UWMOJ4asltif@eisner.encompasserve.org...oK > > Good point. But in the interim, if I had any intention of developing anhL > > OpenVMS app for commercial use, I'd use the Hobbyist License for initialK > > development, then go out and buy the commercial OS kit when I was readyy to > > launch my product. > B > I believe that approach is absolutely forbidden by the licensing$ > agreements, but I am not a lawyer.  E I believe you are absolutely correct re: the Compaq Canon. That said,eC anything that would attract more apps to VMS would be a Good Thing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:40:12 -0400h, From: "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com>/ Subject: Re: Alphaserver 300 and OpenVMS V7.2-1m0 Message-ID: <E09P6.448$Mb7.69367@brie.direct.ca>  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message-, news:w%xO6.609$fi2.15159@news.cpqcorp.net...B > In article <OhvO6.75$Mb7.10326@brie.direct.ca>, "J. Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> writes:  >eF > :When attempting to install VMS V7.2-1 on an Alphaserver 300 (4/266)J > :the system "hangs" while configuring the graphics adapter.  The adapter& > :in question is an ATI MACH64 (ISA). >hK >   The ISA version?  AFAIK, that widget was comparatively rare on OpenVMS.sH >   AFAIK, you can have only one of these ISA widgets installed, and you needH >   to be very careful about ISA physical address assignment collisions.  J I don't think that there is an addressing conflict- the same system worked
 fine under8 prior versions of VMS (6.2 and 7.1 with all Y2K patches)   > A > :The 7.2-1 CD-ROM will boot when using a serial console, and sooD > :VMS can get installed, but attempting to boot the newly installedB > :software (as yet, unconfigured for DECnet, TCP/IP &etc.), usingC > :the graphics console, and logging into the system using a serialv* > :port, DECwindows server process is COM. > K >   Boot off the serial console, install any available DECwindows Motif ECO K >   kit (availability is dependant on which version of DECwindows Motif youaH >   have), and install the OpenVMS ECO kits (all mandatory kits, and theH >   GRAPHICS kit), and check the DECW*.LOG files, and make sure you have& >   enough physical memory configured.  F Done.  The graphics terminal hangs during the configuration portion of startup.K That is: after loading the bootstrap image, we get the startup herald, theng afteriE the network device is configured (EWA0 in this case), when the screenf normallyF "changes modes" (?), instead of the normal "console" screen, the first three-I quarters of the top line on the monitor switch from white letters on bluemB background to red letters on a black background.  After this, whenF DECWindows tries to start up, the server process DECW$SERVER_0 "hangs"C (state is COM), and the monitor, keyboard and mouse do not respond.d  E Crashing the server process yields nothing but empty DECW*.LOG files.e? The system has 160MB of memory (don't ask how that happened :))e  I Is it possible that this ISA device is no-longer supported, or, at least,s wasgI missed during the 7.2 release? (note: 7.1 CD boots, neither 7.2 nor 7.2-1M can)  9 Or, can someone give me a work-around (like something forR SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT)??   Regards, Scott6   >$( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------s1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringd hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:45:38 +0100t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>r/ Subject: Re: Alphaserver 300 and OpenVMS V7.2-1c) Message-ID: <3B0D1E92.14C400B8@bbc.co.uk>a   "J. Scott Greig" wrote:e  A > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message . > news:w%xO6.609$fi2.15159@news.cpqcorp.net...D > > In article <OhvO6.75$Mb7.10326@brie.direct.ca>, "J. Scott Greig" > <jsgreig@geminaq.com> writes:f > >iH > > :When attempting to install VMS V7.2-1 on an Alphaserver 300 (4/266)L > > :the system "hangs" while configuring the graphics adapter.  The adapter( > > :in question is an ATI MACH64 (ISA). > >pM > >   The ISA version?  AFAIK, that widget was comparatively rare on OpenVMS.aJ > >   AFAIK, you can have only one of these ISA widgets installed, and you > needJ > >   to be very careful about ISA physical address assignment collisions. > L > I don't think that there is an addressing conflict- the same system worked > fine under: > prior versions of VMS (6.2 and 7.1 with all Y2K patches) >a > >mC > > :The 7.2-1 CD-ROM will boot when using a serial console, and sooF > > :VMS can get installed, but attempting to boot the newly installedD > > :software (as yet, unconfigured for DECnet, TCP/IP &etc.), usingE > > :the graphics console, and logging into the system using a seriale, > > :port, DECwindows server process is COM. > >eM > >   Boot off the serial console, install any available DECwindows Motif ECOrM > >   kit (availability is dependant on which version of DECwindows Motif you J > >   have), and install the OpenVMS ECO kits (all mandatory kits, and theJ > >   GRAPHICS kit), and check the DECW*.LOG files, and make sure you have( > >   enough physical memory configured. > H > Done.  The graphics terminal hangs during the configuration portion of
 > startup.M > That is: after loading the bootstrap image, we get the startup herald, thenc > afteraG > the network device is configured (EWA0 in this case), when the screenp
 > normallyH > "changes modes" (?), instead of the normal "console" screen, the first > three-K > quarters of the top line on the monitor switch from white letters on blueoD > background to red letters on a black background.  After this, whenH > DECWindows tries to start up, the server process DECW$SERVER_0 "hangs"E > (state is COM), and the monitor, keyboard and mouse do not respond.  > G > Crashing the server process yields nothing but empty DECW*.LOG files. A > The system has 160MB of memory (don't ask how that happened :))i >iK > Is it possible that this ISA device is no-longer supported, or, at least,t > wasoK > missed during the 7.2 release? (note: 7.1 CD boots, neither 7.2 nor 7.2-1d > can) >   B I have one of these devices in a AS255/233 running VMS 7.1.  I hadI a really hard time making it work and really don't know what I eventually  did to make it worka  ? Sorry, this doesn't help except to say don't give up quite yet.i   regards-   >r; > Or, can someone give me a work-around (like something form > SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT)?? >I
 > Regards, > Scotta >c > >e* > >  ---------------------------- #include) > <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------PN > >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com. > >  --------------------------- pure personal% > opinion ---------------------------n3 > >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering, > hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com > >    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofl MedAS or the BBC.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:09:08 +0200eI From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= <jfp@altavista.net>r1 Subject: Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?e- Message-ID: <3B0CB394.B85E76EA@altavista.net>?   System@nospam.com wrote: > N > In article <rdeininger-2205012307470001@user-2iveats.dialup.mindspring.com>, > 6 > Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> writes: > > H > >Marc Krellenstein, CTO of NorthernLight, spoke at today's AlphaServerG > >Diamond Forum.  NorthernLight does sell their indexing and searchingML > >software to corporate customers, and it does run on (only) VMS.  They canJ > >index html or just about any other data format.  No idea what it costs.	 > ---8<--  > O > Thank you all for your responses (and sorry for the stupid anonymous address.)F > Our policy does not allow forum postings under a Corporate account).1 > I will check and evaluate all of the responses.a > N > Does this mean that noone around developped a more powerful search tool than* > the DCL Search facility? I am surprized. >   , I have successfully port SWISH-E on OpenVMS.  D SWISH-E is a tool for indexing files, there is filter for HTML, XML,( postscript, GIF, and many other formats.  E More information can be found on http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/SWISH-E/w  : My port is integrate in the developement version of swish.D Daily snapshots are at http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:4444/swish-daily/ whicho? should be getting rather stable -- but considered a development-* version since changes are stil being made.    B For example i have indexed all the OpenVMS, Rdb,... documentations  H A library is build so it is easly to integrate it into an other program.  E Mark Daniel, the author of WASD, has buid a CGI program (SWISHESI) tog query a SWISH-E dababase.V  ; You can find a demonstration on http://StarLet.DeltaTel.RU/p    D My port is currently partial: only local files are indexed, the http5 part use a script PERL ans i haven't all the modules.i            J > I just copied the FREEWARE CD v4 onto a VMS disk and browsed through it. > No more success. >  > Now, a question:O > Assuming you take over a system management position and the previous folk hasdK > left very far away without easy ways to communicate, what would you do tos > know1 > what is where on your brand new cluster system?s > ' > $ type/page [*...]*.com on all disks?e >  > SM > Q >  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----uO >   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsMK >    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsrN > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:59:26 -0000o- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)*1 Subject: Re: Altavista search engine for OpenVMS?s/ Message-ID: <tgqivu73r5r7dd@news.supernews.com>e  : System@nospam.com wrote in <9efq7b$vjl$1@news.netmar.com>:   >In articletC ><rdeininger-2205012307470001@user-2iveats.dialup.mindspring.com>, e > 5 >Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> writes:1 >>G >>Marc Krellenstein, CTO of NorthernLight, spoke at today's AlphaServer:F >>Diamond Forum.  NorthernLight does sell their indexing and searchingG >>software to corporate customers, and it does run on (only) VMS.  TheytF >>can index html or just about any other data format.  No idea what it	 >>costs. e >---8<-- > E >Thank you all for your responses (and sorry for the stupid anonymousu
 >address.   
 -- snip --  H On a lark, I went to www.manager.com - sure enough, it exists.  Further H larki-ness lead me to try the second "bogus" address from this poster:   www.nospam.com.l  / Uhmm, how come they both lead to the same page?S   ws   -- a1 << Marriage is Grand.  Divorce is Fifty Grand. >>b   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:24:56 +0200 > From: "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr># Subject: Re: comp.os.vms archives ?7. Message-ID: <9eicvo$t77$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  D As I stated in my original post, I don't like the google interface :? - first, large thread are divided in 10 post parts, so you haven   to get each part separately.? - second, large posts are truncated, so you have to get the end @   of the post separately ; this mainly occurs when a response is?   appended at the beginning of the original post - in that case.=   it doesn't matter - but also when a poster is responding byn>   breaking the original post in pieces and responding point by   point ...   B I don't have a real need to get very old posts ... just for latest news (eg HSG80) .R  
 Cheers ...
 Jean-Franoiss    D "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> a crit dans le message news: 3B0B68BA.57EB223D@gtech.com... > Carl Perkins wrote:oL > > In article <3B0A7438.32CC501E@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes...! > > }Jean-Francois Marchal wrote:>. > > }> I'm looking for archives of comp.os.vmsC > > }> Used to use deja, but I don't like the new google rewamping.e@ > > }> Does anybody know any search tool that could give a whole$ > > }> thread in one single search ? > > }oG > > }There are archives for more than 10 years, but nothing searchable.  > > }MD > > }It would be relative easy to setup a searchable archive. I have& > > }sometimes speculated a bit on it. > >tF > > Huh? Either you two are not asking for what I think you are askingC > > for, or you have slipped into an alternate universe (or maybe IsG > > have slipped into one with a better post-google Deja than you got).j > >RE > > "Deja-google" is searchable and you can get the whole thread. (OfoF > > course, determining what constitutes a "thread" is a whole 'notherI > > kettle of fish. But they do actually do it based on some definition - ? > > probably using the actual reference data from the headers.)  > F > The original poster said, that he did not like the Google interface. >lG > I have no problems with it, but I tried to answer the question asked.I >n, > The biggest issues with Google in my view: >   - they only go back to 1995 5 >   - AFAIK it is not possible to download everythingd >t > Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 08:43:01 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s Subject: Re: Compile TAE on VMSr3 Message-ID: <FmAFRNHveSrt@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <FDEC6E96D16AD3119C1A00508B0BBA1201A9D405@lskex100.honeywell-tsi.com>, "Yan, Antony" <Antony.Yan@honeywell-tsi.com> writes:	 > Hi All:h > H > We want to re-host an application software from VAX(VMS6.0)/VAX3800 to > Alpha(VMS 7.2.n)/DS10.@ > Anyone has done these before and have advice please point out.  E Done a lot of VMS based VAX to Alpha porting, never saw as much as 1%nD code breakage, but it can take time to track down that small amount.  N > We also used TAE to build the GUI (VMS6.0) for the application software.  If: > anyone knows that VMS7.2.n have the same compatibility?   C Which TAE?  The TAE I last saw was an X11 toolkit written in C++, ImE choose BuilderXcessory instead.  That TAE generated code which shoulde3 exhibit the less than 1% breakage other code shows.d  H There are a lot of papers on www.openvms.compaq.com that discuss porting experiences.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationr= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingm   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 08:54:30 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ! Subject: Re: Cry for help here...t3 Message-ID: <Gze2sK4NC4M$@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  k In article <E0OO6.20199$G5.4143187@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>, "Sotos Patistas" <spatistas@djginc.com> writes:cL > We have a DEC 4000-100 system running Open VMS 5.0 and today for the firstM > time, after a restart, it asks for a language choice, and then performs all.N > system tests down to #3, says tests complete and leaves off at a >>> prompt.L > At this point typing in "login" returns the message  "password utility notN > enabled" and everything else I've tried gets the response "unknown command". > : > I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions anyone can offer. >   H Your clock/NVRAM battery may have died.  Please get it replaced.  In theB meantime the NVRAM has forgotten the boot settings, and the system didn't boot.   Try  >>> sshow device  G That should show all devices, including  the disks.  Pick a likely diskn (near the top of the list and) >>> boot device-name-goes-here  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationm= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupdE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:48:13 +0200 & From: abdullah <abdullah@nepco.com.jo>' Subject: DCL: Product show History   !! 9 Message-ID: <02b701c0e460$9297f740$ec036e64@nepco.com.jo>s  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_02B4_01C0E471.52A8B780b Content-Type: text/plain;m 	charset="windows-1256"n+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableu   Hi all;d  > i need to remove one of my product on a VMS 7.1 Alpha machine,  ; but it will stay in the history when i issu the command of:> $ Product show history  H i tried to move it out manually from the SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.HISTORY, =H but its still shown in the history list for the system products command;  - how i can move it from the product database??t Any one, Thank you  + ------=_NextPart_000_02B4_01C0E471.52A8B780g Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="windows-1256"n+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable)  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>5 <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1256" =e http-equiv=3DContent-Type>9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>t <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>5 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all;</FONT></DIV>i <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> J <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i need to remove one of my product on a =
 VMS 7.1=20 Alpha machine,</FONT></DIV>a <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> I <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but it will stay in the history when i =a issu the=20S command of:</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ Product show history</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>PG <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i tried to move it out manually from =g the=20G SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.HISTORY, but its still shown in the history list =a
 for the=20% system products command;</FONT></DIV>C <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>bF <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>how i can move it from the product=20 database??</FONT></DIV>E1 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any one, Thank =k you</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_02B4_01C0E471.52A8B780--e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:04:25 GMTr8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)+ Subject: Re: DCL: Product show History   !!g2 Message-ID: <Zp9P6.698$fi2.16146@news.cpqcorp.net>  : In article <02b701c0e460$9297f740$ec036e64@nepco.com.jo>, ( abdullah <abdullah@nepco.com.jo> writes:  ? >i need to remove one of my product on a VMS 7.1 Alpha machine,   9 I am assuming you did this with a PRODUCT REMOVE command.b  < >but it will stay in the history when i issu the command of: >$ Product show historyR  C Yes, the actions of installing and removing the product are part ofr you system's history.e  ? If the product is correctly removed, it will NOT show up in thet, listing from a PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT command.  I >i tried to move it out manually from the SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.HISTORY, = I >but its still shown in the history list for the system products command;e  F This file only records installation information for products installedC using VMSINSTAL.COM.  PRODUCT commands relate to products installed-E using the POLYCENTER Software Installation (PCSI) utility.  These are- two different things.n  . >how i can move it from the product database??  = If you did a PRODUCT REMOVE, then it is mostly gone from the -H PCSI utility product database, However, the history information remains.< There is no supported way to remove the history information.  D There has been discussion of implementing a way to purge the historyC information based on date and/or product, but to my knowledge there. is currently nothing planned.4  3 Why do you want to remove this history information? ( It just might be valuable in the future!   --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAOH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 07:31:54 GMTt From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>. Subject: Re: defining pseudo interfaces for IP' Message-ID: <3B0CB8E8.C1EF6AB3@home.nl>i   Thanks Brian and Frank,    WEA0 works fine.S I just wonder why the manual is so unclear about this, and refers to SEA interfacesa) instead of ZEA interfaces in the example.i   Regards,   Dirk  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  J > In article <3B0C390A.918D676E@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:H > >I'm having a bit of a problem defining a pseudo interface with TCP/IP > >5.1 and VMS 7.3.d > > , > >Here you can find what I am trying to do: > >tV > >http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73FINAL/6526/6526pro_005.html#lower_pseudo_i_sec > > J > >I have one interface (hardware: EWA, ip: WE0), and I am trying to add a > >pseudo interface. > >s > >O > > & > >I follow the manual, and try to do: > >l > >TCPIP> set nointer SEA09 > >TCPIP> set inter SEA0 /host=xxxx/network_mask ... etc.s > >f > >What I get is:o > >   > >error defining interface SEA0 > >no such device available, > >t1 > >Has someone got a clue what I am doing wrong ?l > >n > >regards,o > >e > >Dirkn > >p >i* > Define your interfaces as WEA0 and WEA1. >c+ > Here's what I have on one of my machines:t > Q > Interface   IP_Addr         Network mask          Receive          Send     MTUr >,Q >  WEA0       192.168.1.2     255.255.255.0            2627           198    1500sQ >  WEA1       192.168.10.2    255.255.255.0           11439         13628    1500tQ >  YEA1       192.168.100.2   255.255.255.0           13780         12459    1500tQ >  LO0        127.0.0.1       255.0.0.0                   1             1   65535  >EL > For the YE I had to add my own controller definition (ie. DEFINE COMMUNIC- > ATIONS_CONTROLLER) > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMg >tQ > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:13:02 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au . Subject: Re: defining pseudo interfaces for IP5 Message-ID: <01K3YBHF8SAA000J3X@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Dirk and others,  + Not to undermine what has been said before:t  M This p.m., a colleague and myself (he knows spuriously about networks, and I iL know less than nothing) had to reconfigure two of our Alpha boxes to new IP 
 addresses.  M We used @sys$manager:tcpip$config and it was "remarkably easy".  A few false aN starts when it asked for routing, but we found we needed none, just a default J route to the .255 in the subnet.  This is VMS 7.2 and TCPIP v 5.1(? or 0).  Q Most prompts we took the default other than the default routing and changing our   IP address.-  L This probably means little to TCP experts but we were very happy to get our P machines accessed via the (bl**dy) NT DNS server and to be able to print to our  colour printers.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,l
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiao   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,1; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.j   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:04:00 GMTE= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)c. Subject: Re: defining pseudo interfaces for IP0 Message-ID: <009FC79F.CA6587F6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  H In article <3B0CB8E8.C1EF6AB3@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: >Thanks Brian and Frank, >e >WEA0 works fine.rT >I just wonder why the manual is so unclear about this, and refers to SEA interfaces* >instead of ZEA interfaces in the example.  G Because the documentation writers don't have to use their documentation  to solve real problems?   G I have to admit that I had not looked at that particular section of thesH documentation until you pointed it out.  You might want to submit a com-G ment to the documentation folks via mailto:openvmsdoc@compaq.com.  For n5 the uninitiated, that section is obviously confusing.o   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMH            .O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:55:17 GMT: From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>. Subject: Re: defining pseudo interfaces for IP& Message-ID: <3B0D12C3.E0E9C9B@home.nl>  	 Hi Paddy,.  O You're absolutely right, the standard config procedure of TCPIP is very simple.iR However, I was trying to add a second ip address to my interface, and that can notT be done with the normal configuration procedure. And than it shows that the ip stackQ & documentation come from Unix, not from VMS :-)). Many people complain about NCLbQ (Decnet plus) , but in my view configuring all the ip stuff is far more difficultnA and confusing when you want more than the standard configuration.p  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:   > Dirk and others, >E- > Not to undermine what has been said before:  > N > This p.m., a colleague and myself (he knows spuriously about networks, and IM > know less than nothing) had to reconfigure two of our Alpha boxes to new IPt > addresses. > N > We used @sys$manager:tcpip$config and it was "remarkably easy".  A few falseO > starts when it asked for routing, but we found we needed none, just a default L > route to the .255 in the subnet.  This is VMS 7.2 and TCPIP v 5.1(? or 0). >OR > Most prompts we took the default other than the default routing and changing our
 > IP address.n >nM > This probably means little to TCP experts but we were very happy to get ournQ > machines accessed via the (bl**dy) NT DNS server and to be able to print to ouri > colour printers. >e > Regards, Paddy >- > Paddy O'Brien, > Transmission Development,9 > TransGrid, > PO Box A1000, Sydney South,r > NSW 2000, AustraliaR >A > Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 > Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050( > Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au >nO > Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,2= > but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.b   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 13:35:46 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) F Subject: Re: FW: "Talk Baq" to Compaq - boycott compaqworkinggroup.com3 Message-ID: <ygd+uUxes80F@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <OF76F9C53C.50F12F68-ON03256A55.004C996F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:H > To boycott  CompaqWorkingGroup .....   means you want to SUICIDE . . . > @ > It is a good chance to be listened and you are WASTING !  !  !  C The "chance" has been tried and "suggestions" to CompaqWorkingGroupdB have not even resulted in them removing their insistance that only' unsecured browsers may view their site.   D If they can't understand that simple principle, there is no hope for anything more complicated.   ======  C As to the Privacy Policy issue, there should be no issue at all for*B those who only wish to READ the site, but they will not even allowA READING without giving a name.  (Yes, I know it might be possible0A to give false information, but that does not remove the fact that7B these people do not understand communication, let alone security.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:48:24 -0400p0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca.spammenot>? Subject: Re: help: -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full 7 Message-ID: <g39P6.1340$JT2.52669@wagner.videotron.net>s  ' > AUTOGEN with feedback is your friend.e  ; But then use the SAVE_FEEDBACK option when doing shutdowns.w  7 On Alpha systems, GBLPAGES is dynamic. On VAX it`s not.t  J If you want to know how much pages (and sections) you need to add, you can# use this handy DCL code (GBL.COM) :e5 http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem/prog_library.htm#gbl L And then set value for ADD_GBLPAGES in your MODPARAMS.DAT accordingly before you run AUTOGEN.J One section may hold many CONTIGUOUS pages. You may have enough pages, but, if they are not contiguous it will not work.   See.- $  write sys$output f$getsyi("free_gblpages")e and . $ write sys$output f$getsyi("contig_gblpages")   --   Syltremd; http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site) > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  K "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> a crit dans le messagea! news: GDt8nH.J2v@world.std.com...M3 > >I=B4m trying to install a shared image and then:e >c > >=2E..9 > >$ INSTALL REPLACE /SHARED/HEADER_RESIDENT PRO$OBJT:BH1EH > >%INSTALL-E-FAIL, failed to REPLACE entry for DISCO1:<GRH.OBJT>BH1.EXE/ > >-SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is fulla > L > >is the solution as simple as incrementing the GBLPAGES system parameter?, > >How?, How much? > B > >should I use SYSGEN or is it better using AUTOGEN to adjust it? >mI > It is best to use AUTOGEN with FEEDBACK.  You should edit MODPARAMS.DATuL > to take out explicit settings of parameters like GBLPAGES (so that AUTOGENK > can compute the proper values) and the execute the following when you cant	 > reboot:  >e1 > $ @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS REBOOT FEEDBACKt >t6 > It should compute proper values for your parameters. >g' > AUTOGEN with feedback is your friend.  >y > -Mikeb   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 08:57:11 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ? Subject: Re: help: -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full 3 Message-ID: <WvNftXNv454m@eisner.encompasserve.org>s   In article <000801c0e383$76201990$56011aac@cast_z5482.oficinas.bancozaragozano.es>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Enrique_Iraz=E1bal?= <eirazabal@bancozaragozano.es> writes: > 	 > Hi, all> > 0 > I suppose this will be a very simple question: >  > 2 > I=B4m trying to install a shared image and then: >  > =2E.. 8 > $ INSTALL REPLACE /SHARED/HEADER_RESIDENT PRO$OBJT:BH1G > %INSTALL-E-FAIL, failed to REPLACE entry for DISCO1:<GRH.OBJT>BH1.EXEs. > -SYSTEM-F-GPTFULL, global page table is full >   H > is the solution as simple as incrementing the GBLPAGES system paramet= > er?, > How?, How much?f >   F How big iis pro$objt:bh1.exe?  analyze/image/interactive will tell youB how many sections it contains if you don't have a link map for it.  H If you can't figure out how many global pages and sections you need, try. cranking them up 20% at a time until it works.  > Use sys$system:modparams.dat and autogen to make the changess.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingh   ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 2001 05:45:13 GMT From: System@nospam.comh. Subject: Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT?* Message-ID: <9ei759$88h$1@news.netmar.com>  C In article <bcsogtckmdu0dmtmhgt7475t3vspqgk319@4ax.com>, Netsurfer 7- <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com> writes:t >I am using OpenVMS 7.1. > E >Presently I am writing script to FTP files to our remote UNIX serverr >using FTP scripts.e >r >MY_FTP.COMr >==========h >e) >$ FTP remote_host /USERNAME="johndoe"  -w) >                  /PASSWORD="password" - 4 >                  /INPUT=SYS$MANAGER:FTP_SCRIPT.TXT >n >SYS$MANAGER:FTP_SCRIPT.TXTi >==========================h >  >CD \data_dump >SET TYPE ASCII  >MPUT blablabla.txt  >BYE >r >lD >Is there a way to simply all the above into within the batch script >without script files?   I use this:r  
 $ set noon $ say = "write sys$output"J $ if p1 .eqs. "?" .or. p1 .eqs. "HELP" .or. p1 .eqs. "help" then goto HELP/ $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Node destination"  $ if p1 .eqs. "" then exit $ p1 = p1 - "::". $ if p2 .eqs. "" then inq p2 "Remote username" $ if p2 .eqs. "" then exit $ if p3 .eqs. "" $ then $    set term/noecho $    inq p3 "Remote password"  $    set term/echo $ endift $ if p3 .eqs. "" then exit $ goto GET_ACTION  $! $INVALID_ACTION:	 $ p4 = ""  $! $GET_ACTION:3 $ if p4 .eqs. "" then inq p4 "Action (Get/Put/Dir)"- $ if p4 .eqs. "" then exit- $ action = f$extract(0,1,f$edit(p4,"UPCASE"))lJ $ if action .nes. "G" .and. action .nes. "P" .and. action .nes. "D" then -   goto INVALID_ACTION7= $ if p5 .eqs. "" .and. action .nes. "D" then inq p5 "File(s)" 1 $ if p5 .eqs. "" .and. action .nes. "D" then exit5
 $ get = "get"n6 $ if f$locate("*",p5) .ne. f$len(p5) then get = "mget"
 $ put = "put"n6 $ if f$locate("*",p5) .ne. f$len(p5) then put = "mput" $ close/nolog ch& $ open/write ch sys$scratch:myftp.temp $ if action .eqs. "G"n $ then $     write ch  get," ",p5B $     say "$ copy ",p1,"""",p2," password""::SYS$LOGIN:",p5," ", - f$env("default"),"*.*" $ endifl/ $ if action .eqs. "P" then write ch  put," ",p5t/ $ if action .eqs. "D" then write ch "dir "  ,p5d $ write ch "close"
 $ close ch $ timestamp=f$time() $ timestamp[11,1] := :2 $ if action .nes. "D" then def/user sys$output nl:F $ ftp 'p1' /username='p2' /password='p3' /input=sys$scratch:myftp.temp $ if action .eqs. "G"r $ then $    if f$search(p5) .eqs. ""o	 $    thenxI $       say "%FTP-550-Failed to open ",p1,"::SYS$LOGIN:",p5," for input."n% $       say "%FTP-550 file not found"R	 $    elseY- $       dire_/since='timestamp'/date/size=all>
 $    endif $ endifr $ delete="delete";! $ delete sys$scratch:myftp.temp;*  $ exit $! $HELP: $ type sys$input $DECKm  < The MYFTP procedure uses FTP transfer to copy files from and; to a remote node. It also allows the DCL DIRECTORY command.b  > In the current version 1 dated 24-feb-2001 only the SYS$LOGIN:$ directory can be processed remotely.  9 Syntax: $ @myftp node username password command [file(s)]D  8 The available commands today are GET, PUT and DIRECTORY.A Wild cards are allowed. FTP verbose is disabled. A /LOG qualifiert; will probably be implemented in the next version (to come).    $EOD $ exit   SM  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----rM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupshI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts1L made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:51:23 +0100:* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>. Subject: Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT?+ Message-ID: <9eii2c$q1o@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>p  B "Netsurfer" <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com> wrote in message2 news:bcsogtckmdu0dmtmhgt7475t3vspqgk319@4ax.com...  F > Presently I am writing script to FTP files to our remote UNIX server > using FTP scripts.  B Have a look at COPY/FTP. The syntax is a bit of an odd mixture but the examples should help.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:51:00 -0400   From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil. Subject: Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT?0 Message-ID: <01052409510027@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  8 Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com> wrote onO Thu, 24 May 2001 10:36:02 +0800 in <bcsogtckmdu0dmtmhgt7475t3vspqgk319@4ax.com>i :a   > I am using OpenVMS 7.1.c > F > Presently I am writing script to FTP files to our remote UNIX server > using FTP scripts. >  > MY_FTP.COM > ========== > * > $ FTP remote_host /USERNAME="johndoe"  -* >                   /PASSWORD="password" -5 >                   /INPUT=SYS$MANAGER:FTP_SCRIPT.TXTy >  > SYS$MANAGER:FTP_SCRIPT.TXT > ========================== >  > CD \data_dumpa > SET TYPE ASCII > MPUT blablabla.txt > BYEi >  > E > Is there a way to simply all the above into within the batch scriptt > without script files?a > + > Is there a UNIX .netrc clone for OpenVMS?hC > Or the scripting using ">>EOF" syntax which is valid for UNIX FTPs > scripting???  " Try Perl and the Net::FTP module.   : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919@; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919l5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:26:20 -04001+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>j. Subject: Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT?# Message-ID: <sb0cfe03.086@aaas.org>   K I call the below DCL script from within another. (Remember, FTP is a Unix = C program, so most of your commands inside FTP need to be lowercase).i   $ type XRSYS058.COMe* FTP BARIUM /USERNAME=3DFOO /PASSWORD=3DBAR cd DSA100:[ROSSDATA.GLUPLOAD]t& put DRA0:[ADMARC71.R71A.FIL]SYS058.FIL byem $@  L >>> Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com> 05/23/2001 10:36:02 PM = >>>C I am using OpenVMS 7.1.d  D Presently I am writing script to FTP files to our remote UNIX server using FTP scripts.  
 MY_ftp.COM=206 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  * $ FTP remote_host /USERNAME=3D"johndoe"  -*                   /PASSWORD=3D"password" -5                   /INPUT=3DSYS$MANAGER:FTP_SCRIPT.TXTa   SYS$MANAGER:FTP_SCRIPT.TXTL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Ds  
 CD \data_dump  SET TYPE ASCII MPUT blablabla.txt BYEc    C Is there a way to simply all the above into within the batch scriptt without script files?   ) Is there a UNIX .netrc clone for OpenVMS? A Or the scripting using ">>EOF" syntax which is valid for UNIX FTPo scripting???   TIA.         =20f Regards,  	 Netsurfere      =20 =3D=3D=3D=3DK For any personal email replies, please remove " sentosa. " from my E-mail =  address.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:31:42 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br  Subject: Microsoft and LockeedL Message-ID: <OFB7406324.B64C7ADD-ON032569DD.00324189@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Microsoft and Lockeed......   ; http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-6027943.html?tag=mn_hde  ) What is the role of OpenVMS in defense  ?C     Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:49:09 -0600)( From: emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com>" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed+ Message-ID: <3B0D2D75.9642BB4C@ecubics.com>-  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: >  > Microsoft and Lockeed......a > = > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-6027943.html?tag=mn_hdK > + > What is the role of OpenVMS in defense  ?d >   : I hope somebody at compaq reads at least the one sentence:  H "In mid-day trading, shares of Microsoft inched  ... higher ... Lockheed	 fell ..."n   cheers   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:47:53 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed< Message-ID: <ZWaP6.3104$zl5.1206261@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OFB7406324.B64C7ADD-ON032569DD.00324189@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br... > Microsoft and Lockeed......  >P= > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-6027943.html?tag=mn_hdw > + > What is the role of OpenVMS in defense  ?  >   J The OS is well entrenched in the defense sector; that's one reason for theI DII COE initiative. Many three-letter agencies use VMS but they of courseBK are not, umm, reference accounts. Rumour has it that the White House uses a:C VMS-based GS-Series system for some of its office automation tasks."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:38:03 GMTu From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed' Message-ID: <3B0D46F8.AB421B49@home.nl>   D If Lockheed is using M$ as an example, I hope none of the readers of@ this newsgroup is living near an airfield, Just imagine how many* Lockheed build planes will be crashing....      * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:   > Microsoft and Lockeed......a > = > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-6027943.html?tag=mn_hde >n+ > What is the role of OpenVMS in defense  ?E >n	 > Regardsi >e > FC   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 13:54:33 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)s" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed3 Message-ID: <ReYH$XDZRmjx@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  s In article <ZWaP6.3104$zl5.1206261@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:o > 8 > <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageH > news:OFB7406324.B64C7ADD-ON032569DD.00324189@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br... >> Microsoft and Lockeed...... >>> >> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-6027943.html?tag=mn_hd >>, >> What is the role of OpenVMS in defense  ? >> > L > The OS is well entrenched in the defense sector; that's one reason for theK > DII COE initiative. Many three-letter agencies use VMS but they of course>M > are not, umm, reference accounts. Rumour has it that the White House uses aIE > VMS-based GS-Series system for some of its office automation tasks.   @ I am convinced that if you travel in those circles many of thoseB installations are "reference accounts", provided all involved have  appropriate security clearances.  F If you are told that the US Unicorn Defense System uses VMS (presumingC you have a clearance to know the US Unicorn Defense System exists), C there is no need for you to know the details of _how_ they use VMS,v@ but you can judge for yourself that there are no unicorn attacks being reported :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:25:04 -0500,' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU>r  Subject: MOP/LAD across routers?) Message-ID: <3B0D35E0.F5D6D8D5@UIowa.EDU>s  P I have never had to deal with this situation before, but I have now found myself8 in a setup where my office where I would like to have an@ InfoServer and an X-Terminal that use MOP and LAD and DECnet areB in a different sub-net than the OpenVMS systems which they will be< accessing.  I don't control the network and suspect that theB routers and gateways might not pass DEC protocols.  I will have to check into that deeper.e  @ First, is MOP and LAD "routable" protocols?  I have always knownC that LAT is not, so I won't be able to use LAT terminal connectionsm from my X-Term, right?  @ I just thought of this problem as I am planning on trying to getD an X-Terminal purchased (Tek XP400 or NCD NC400) and wondered if any; of the DEC boot methods and protocols would ever work... :(a   Thanks for any help! Rick -- rH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _  _____                    http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst  --  INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsH | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems BT1000 GH       Office: 319/384-7016H  \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052               FAX: 319/384-7020   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:55:32 -0500y1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> $ Subject: Re: MOP/LAD across routers?' Message-ID: <3B0D3D04.C45C163C@fsi.net>s   Rick Dyson wrote:W > R > I have never had to deal with this situation before, but I have now found myself: > in a setup where my office where I would like to have anB > InfoServer and an X-Terminal that use MOP and LAD and DECnet are > in a different sub-net   "Subnet" is TCP/IP concept.   - > than the OpenVMS systems which they will bes> > accessing.  I don't control the network and suspect that theD > routers and gateways might not pass DEC protocols.  I will have to > check into that deeper.t  4 You'll need to bridge LAT, MOP, LAD, etc. because...  u. > First, is MOP and LAD "routable" protocols?   ( No, they do not use the "routing" layer.   > I have always knownlE > that LAT is not, so I won't be able to use LAT terminal connectionsT > from my X-Term, right?  C Correct. Unless these protocols are bridged between segments by anyU5 magic, they will not traverse the links you describe.e  VB > I just thought of this problem as I am planning on trying to getF > an X-Terminal purchased (Tek XP400 or NCD NC400) and wondered if any= > of the DEC boot methods and protocols would ever work... :(   F Bridge selectively by packet type is the best you can hope for. Do you% hold any sway with the network folks?    -- M David J. Dachterae dba DJE SystemsO http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 2001 08:07:14 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162 (Wayne Sewell)n! Subject: Re: MS-Fawning at Compaqn. Message-ID: <YgL8atcoex07@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  [ In article <3B0C1314.575F3F3E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:B > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  >> l5 >> "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messagea5 >> news:cjsmgtcrjq9vvtce7ptvb82upeo7bo5a89@4ax.com...,7 >> > On Wed, 23 May 2001 00:51:19 +0200, Christof Brassi  >> > <brass@infopuls.com> wrote: >> > >> >C >> > >At the Technical Update I asked one Compaq representative why @ >> > >they didn't copy SUN's strategy in the UNIX market segmentE >> > >because this strategy seems to work much better than their own.oA >> > >Answer: we don't want to have competition with our M$ basedE< >> > >product line. Very strange answer to my understanding. >> >H >> > Translation: We would rather fill Microsoft's pockets than our own.H >> > Recall that Compaq actually lost money on low end PCs last quarter.I >> > Every single additional PC sale they made increased their loss. Theyp5 >> > would much rather this than make money it seems.c >> > >> oO >> Compaq's fixation, fealty, and fawning over Microsoft is indeed a sad thing.oK >> Win2K adoption rates are way below expectations. Datacenter Edition is awM >> disaster (hasta la vista, ML770). And how many dollars has .NET brought in  >> for Compaq? >> tL >> Every time Compaq sells a Wintel box, Compaq contributes to the installed >> base of Intel and Microsoft.I >> LM >> Every time Compaq sells an Alpha box, Compaq contributed to the Alpha, andF >> VMS/Tru64 installed base. >>  I >> By adopting a pro-Microsoft stance at the expense of its own products, < >> Compaq is doing itself and its STOCKHOLDERS a disservice. > B > I've mentioned before the possibly of stockholders seeking legalD > recourse. Is there anyone here besides Terry who is a stockholder   5 Well, I am, though the number of shares is miniscule.e   >and is I > sufficiently upset about this to participate in legal action to protectt > your investment?  N I am upset that compaq cannot seem to understand the obvious, but I don't knowN if I am upset enough to willingly deal with lawyers.  I would have to be upset" to the point of insanity for that.  O If I thought there was a chance of success, I might be willing to choke down my-K revulsion of attorneys and try it, but I don't have much faith in the legaloM system.  Some members of the newsgroup have learned at great cost that judgeseH and juries have absolutlely no comprehension of computer-related topics.     Wayne7   -- uO ===============================================================================yM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxs: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ================================================================================K Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!!lO    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:10:43 GMTw4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: MS-Fawning at CompaqE< Message-ID: <Tv9P6.3089$zl5.1186825@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  J "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162> wrote in message( news:YgL8atcoex07@tachxxsoftxxconsult...= > In article <3B0C1314.575F3F3E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"a <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:n > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t > >>K > >> By adopting a pro-Microsoft stance at the expense of its own products,e> > >> Compaq is doing itself and its STOCKHOLDERS a disservice. > >tD > > I've mentioned before the possibly of stockholders seeking legalE > > recourse. Is there anyone here besides Terry who is a stockholderA >O7 > Well, I am, though the number of shares is miniscule.F >(	 > >and ispK > > sufficiently upset about this to participate in legal action to protect* > > your investment? > K > I am upset that compaq cannot seem to understand the obvious, but I don't  knowJ > if I am upset enough to willingly deal with lawyers.  I would have to be upset $ > to the point of insanity for that. > I > If I thought there was a chance of success, I might be willing to choket down my G > revulsion of attorneys and try it, but I don't have much faith in thee legal H > system.  Some members of the newsgroup have learned at great cost that judgesJ > and juries have absolutlely no comprehension of computer-related topics.  L I in no way implied or suggested that the legal route is the right course ofJ action. What little background I have in injury/liability law is that fourL elements must be proven to collect damages: a duty owed--> breach of duty--> proximate cause (of)--> injury.   0 It would be a stretch to prove any of the above.  F I thought there might be one opportunity to influence Compaq, but thisE opportunity was nuked at the annual stockholders meeting. There was adJ stockholder initiative to require Compaq to nominate at least two DirectorK candidates for each open Board slot. Compaq was opposed to this initiative,o' so were a majority of the stockholders.e  I Had the vote gone the other way, I'd be cranking up the CHARLIE MATCO FOR " COMPAQ BOD campaign right now. ;-}   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 11:55:39 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e! Subject: Re: MS-Fawning at Compaqx3 Message-ID: <P6YX0NZpo4Ge@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  s In article <Tv9P6.3089$zl5.1186825@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:   H > I thought there might be one opportunity to influence Compaq, but thisG > opportunity was nuked at the annual stockholders meeting. There was anL > stockholder initiative to require Compaq to nominate at least two DirectorM > candidates for each open Board slot. Compaq was opposed to this initiative,t) > so were a majority of the stockholders.n  B That has been the case for many corporations in the US for severalE years now, but such proposals continue to be submitted and shot down.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:58:41 -0400n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: MS-Fawning at CompaqhL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2405011158410001@user-2ivea8l.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <Tv9P6.3089$zl5.1186825@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C.+ Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:0     > H > I thought there might be one opportunity to influence Compaq, but thisG > opportunity was nuked at the annual stockholders meeting. There was atL > stockholder initiative to require Compaq to nominate at least two DirectorM > candidates for each open Board slot. Compaq was opposed to this initiative, ) > so were a majority of the stockholders.o  = Perhaps Compaq held proxies for the majority of stockholders?s  F It might be worthwhile to try this once or twice more.  I guess a fairJ number of stockholders never notice this kind of initiative until theyreadG that it was voted down at the meeting.  The negative result might causey, them to pay more attention next time around.   -- t Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comU   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:07:29 -0400c- From: John Reagan <reagan@hiyall.zko.dec.com> ! Subject: Re: MS-Fawning at Compaqd2 Message-ID: <3B0CF981.4A3C9269@hiyall.zko.dec.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:s > ? > Perhaps Compaq held proxies for the majority of stockholders?  >   C Institutional investors (ie, mutual funds) almostly always vote the1 "board's recommendations".   -- - John Reaganh Compaq Pascal Project LeaderD A Compaq shareholder who YES on the defeated shareholder initiative.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:41:33 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>T! Subject: Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq ' Message-ID: <3B0D39BD.6CF814E5@fsi.net>c   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e > L > "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162> wrote in message* > news:YgL8atcoex07@tachxxsoftxxconsult...? > > In article <3B0C1314.575F3F3E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"1! > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e > > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:i > > >>M > > >> By adopting a pro-Microsoft stance at the expense of its own products, @ > > >> Compaq is doing itself and its STOCKHOLDERS a disservice. > > > F > > > I've mentioned before the possibly of stockholders seeking legalG > > > recourse. Is there anyone here besides Terry who is a stockholderD > >D9 > > Well, I am, though the number of shares is miniscule.  > >  > > >and ismM > > > sufficiently upset about this to participate in legal action to protectt > > > your investment? > >hM > > I am upset that compaq cannot seem to understand the obvious, but I don't  > knowL > > if I am upset enough to willingly deal with lawyers.  I would have to be > upset & > > to the point of insanity for that. > >=K > > If I thought there was a chance of success, I might be willing to chokeE	 > down mydI > > revulsion of attorneys and try it, but I don't have much faith in the  > legalrJ > > system.  Some members of the newsgroup have learned at great cost that > judgesL > > and juries have absolutlely no comprehension of computer-related topics. > N > I in no way implied or suggested that the legal route is the right course ofL > action. What little background I have in injury/liability law is that four- > elements must be proven to collect damages:0  
 > a duty owedr  2 Protect the value of the stockholders' investment.   --> breach of duty  < Easily proven. See any recent history of Compaq stock price.   --> proximate cause (of)  F Failure to market the product(s) (OpenVMS, Alpha) and/or substantially grow their market share.   --> injury.i  - See any recent history of Compaq stock price.e  E That seems to satisfy all four requirements. Any legal types here whon might care to comment?   ---.) Re: Disregard for the Legal profession...s  7 There's a joke (underscore "joke") that goes like this:1           ----  G You're alone in a room with two men, each of whom is tied to a separatetH chair: an attorney and (an infamous middle-Eastern dictator). You have a  gun with only two bullets in it.   Who do you shoot?a  , The attorney twice (don't take any chances).   -- p David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:49:17 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>! Subject: Re: MS-Fawning at Compaq < Message-ID: <hYaP6.3106$zl5.1206678@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "John Reagan" <reagan@hiyall.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:3B0CF981.4A3C9269@hiyall.zko.dec.com... > Robert Deininger wrote:  > >nA > > Perhaps Compaq held proxies for the majority of stockholders?_ > >q >-E > Institutional investors (ie, mutual funds) almostly always vote thep > "board's recommendations". >6   Yep, so it goes.  # But if nominated, Charlie will run!n   ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 2001 17:26:16 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)g! Subject: Re: MS-Fawning at Compaqy, Message-ID: <9ejg7o$1200$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ; In article <J7VO6.2718$zl5.803558@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,a7  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:" |>  I |> What I *would* like to see is more evenhanded treatment of the product.J |> portfolio. Rather than playing the fiefdom and OS Political CorrectnessH |> game, Compaq needs to be more like General Motors. GM manages to sellM |> multiple competing product lines (both home-grown and imported) and the GMrF |> subsidiaries are not artificially restrained by corporate politicalM |> correctness. If you go to a Buick dealer, the Buick dealer isn't gonna sayt1 |> "Well, I think you'd be happier in a Pontiac!", |>  6 |> And GM damnsure isn't going to force such behavior.  F But in order for your analogy with GM to work you have to assume thereC are no Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick or Cadilac salesmen.  Only Chevy.o  , You: "I would like to look at a new Catera.": Them: "Never heard of it.  Let me show you a nice Impala."% You: "But that's not the car I want."eD Them: "No problem then, let's go over there and look at a Cavalier."3 You: "But I want a Cadilac, those are all Chevies."yG Them: "Never heard of anything called a Cadilac.  How about a Corvette?r         That's a popular model."    :-(e   bill   -- )J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:54:45 +0100w- From: "Alex Hoskins" <alex.hoskins@dpp.co.uk>n Subject: OpenVMS Contract 3 Message-ID: <4L5P6.131$X%1.741288@newsr2.u-net.net>y  
 Hello All,  K Sorry for being a pain and sticking this on here, but I believe it's a goodrK contract and the lucky person will benefit. So here's whatI need. Pop me an J Email if your interested. Money would be I guess in the region of 600 per, day. Based in F'furt gets you out of IR35!!!  - IT Security and Process Management is looking   J for one or two Consultants reworking their internal OpenVMS Configuration-  I and Security Standards. The intention is to get a detailed description ofe  E configurations or settings of among others user rights, file and data   K access network parameters etc. The main purpose is to define (or re-define)   C certain standards under the objectives of security and operability./   Requirements/Experience:  C OpenVMS Version 7.2 (several years of experience in administration;v  ( deep knowledge of settings and features)  C IP-Stack DIGITAL TCPIP-Services for OpenVMS Version 5.0 (knowledge;_   bounding to OpenVMS)  5 Knowledge of DECnet Phase IV configuration is of less-  & concern/priority, but will be welcome.  D Security Skill - conceptual for operations guidelines in general and  - for detailed security settings of OpenVMS 7.2D  % Experience in authoring documentations  9 Knowledge in Axent Enterprise Security Manager is welcomen  F English (fluently in writing and speaking, the documentation has to be   written in English)   + German (reading and talking) is appreciated    Further Requirements  B Profound experience in a target-oriented, self-controlling working   manner   Start: late August 2001c  % Duration: 3 months; might be extended    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:30:46 -0400i2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Contract 2 Message-ID: <P18P6.690$fi2.16116@news.cpqcorp.net>   Alex,   - I have sent this post to some of my contacts.   
 Warm Regards,w   Sueh8 "Alex Hoskins" <alex.hoskins@dpp.co.uk> wrote in message- news:4L5P6.131$X%1.741288@newsr2.u-net.net...U > Hello All, >cH > Sorry for being a pain and sticking this on here, but I believe it's a goodJ > contract and the lucky person will benefit. So here's whatI need. Pop me anL > Email if your interested. Money would be I guess in the region of 600 per. > day. Based in F'furt gets you out of IR35!!! >v/ > IT Security and Process Management is lookingp >sL > for one or two Consultants reworking their internal OpenVMS Configuration- >MK > and Security Standards. The intention is to get a detailed description ofA >rG > configurations or settings of among others user rights, file and datao > B > access network parameters etc. The main purpose is to define (or
 re-define) >eE > certain standards under the objectives of security and operability.s >. > Requirements/Experience: >dE > OpenVMS Version 7.2 (several years of experience in administration;- >-* > deep knowledge of settings and features) >8E > IP-Stack DIGITAL TCPIP-Services for OpenVMS Version 5.0 (knowledge;l >  > bounding to OpenVMS) >C7 > Knowledge of DECnet Phase IV configuration is of less  >a( > concern/priority, but will be welcome. > F > Security Skill - conceptual for operations guidelines in general and >>/ > for detailed security settings of OpenVMS 7.2  >s' > Experience in authoring documentation7 >a; > Knowledge in Axent Enterprise Security Manager is welcomes > H > English (fluently in writing and speaking, the documentation has to be >U > written in English)q >p- > German (reading and talking) is appreciateds >t > Further Requirements >eD > Profound experience in a target-oriented, self-controlling working >o > manner >r > Start: late August 2001p >t' > Duration: 3 months; might be extendede >e >s >n   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 20:33:26 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)C Subject: Re: Opera browser3 Message-ID: <Qoz$r7y9p+UH@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  X In article <3B0C1341.3912AFF4@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> m[ >> In article <3B05B563.B9192D11@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes:  >> > Larry Kilgallen wrote:o >> >>an >> >> In article <OFB8AE5EB5.2786550A-ON88256A4F.0079FFEC@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: >> >> >tS >> >> > Observations suggest it's OK. The pay version doesn't appear on the spywaresO >> >> > infested software list, and there are people using ethernet sniffers to S >> >> > check. 'Course, they could always be doing some funky kind of encryption sop >> >> > it doesn't show up.p >> >> L >> >> It could be waiting two years to start reporting, after it is popular. >> >C >> > Do you think their business will then continue. If not: do you @ >> > think they would have earned enough money then? What do youA >> > think of negotiating a special licence agreement for the VMSdB >> > version which specifically excludes all that sort of activityD >> > and would include a very high fee they had to pay if they brake >> > the contract? >> s. >> Let me answer in Brian Schenkenberger mode. >>  @ >>         I am more interested in assurance of security than inA >>         assurance that in the event of malfeasance there wouldh! >>         be income for lawyers.u >  > This was for the audience./ > Please try it another time, more substantial.S  5 It is not often that people ask me to say _more_. :-)h  = 	The idea that there would be retribution against a malfactort= 	does not provide me sufficient assurance that there would be= 	no such malfeasance.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:59:55 -0400 0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca.spammenot>$ Subject: Re: Oracle 8.1.6 SQLLIB.OLB7 Message-ID: <2e9P6.1341$JT2.55229@wagner.videotron.net>g  ? I`d say there is no sqllib.olb in Oracle 8. I have in in my 7.3=+ installation, but not in either 805 or 816.o  D You need this for linking some programs? I guess you have to do thisL differently now. I do not link myself any programs using Oracle, but we haveG Ross Systems software that does it and I know they changed 2 .COM files4K starting with version 8. Can`t remember on the top of my head what they are-< or what they were doing, but for sure something has changed.  " I can research it if you`re stuck.     --   Syltrem.; http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site)h> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  : "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> a crit dans le message news:D DA415CB103938FBA.CDAA33EE1DD8BB68.13F0683A6445AEB3@lp.airnews.net... >t >eL >    I'm looking for sqllib.olb for oracle 8.1.6 ... the installer built theK > version for 7.3.4 we have running but despite building all 14 products onsG > the 8.1.6 install we don't seem to wind up with an sqllib.olb libraryt: > ..... anyone know how the installer would build this...?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:47:23 +0100a  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com. Subject: Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - OnlyH Message-ID: <OFBD16F7AD.454912DF-ON80256A56.003B081D@qedi.quintiles.com>  J Well what would one expect?  If Oracle and Compaq ran a joint (un)HelpdeskH for technical support then Oracle would be unable to blame Compaq and/or2 VMS Engineering for all of their, erm, "features".B Joint helpdesk = no ability to adopt a sloping shoulders approach.B Separate helpdesk = deniability on responsibility for bugs, I mean	 features.t  D Besides, if you called such a joint venture OC then it might confuseJ customers with Oracle's own product called Oracle Clinical which is in the5 process of being dropped by Oracle on a VMS platform.    Steve.   Fabio commented :  >>> E If you dont know Oracle, Sun and Veritas have an agreement called VOSt Initiative.tG What means, customers having the products of the three companies have avJ specialized call center - by contract of course - to solve the integration	 problems.t  : Is there a  OC - Oracle x Compaq initiative ????? NO ! ! ! <<<h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:08:21 -0300d) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brp. Subject: Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - OnlyL Message-ID: <OF32F5CA2A.3DB1F8AA-ON03256A56.003D0210@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  B I am sad today:  the company announced yesterday the real death ofH OpenVMS /RDB here (there are less 60.000 users of OpenVMS) please CompaqF count it  . . . I think is time to Compaq make a new "census".........   Regardss   FC        1 steven.reece@quintiles.com em 24/05/2001 07:47:23v  , Favor responder a steven.reece@quintiles.com             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi      . Assunto: Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only      J Well what would one expect?  If Oracle and Compaq ran a joint (un)HelpdeskH for technical support then Oracle would be unable to blame Compaq and/or2 VMS Engineering for all of their, erm, "features".B Joint helpdesk = no ability to adopt a sloping shoulders approach.B Separate helpdesk = deniability on responsibility for bugs, I mean	 features.p  D Besides, if you called such a joint venture OC then it might confuseJ customers with Oracle's own product called Oracle Clinical which is in the5 process of being dropped by Oracle on a VMS platform.r   Steve.   Fabio commented :j >>>RE If you dont know Oracle, Sun and Veritas have an agreement called VOS- Initiative.pG What means, customers having the products of the three companies have aeJ specialized call center - by contract of course - to solve the integration	 problems.r  : Is there a  OC - Oracle x Compaq initiative ????? NO ! ! ! <<<n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:56:13 +0100e$ From: Mike Shield <ms6@sanger.ac.uk>. Subject: Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only+ Message-ID: <3B0CF6DD.8243DDB@sanger.ac.uk>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  G > If you dont know Oracle, Sun and Veritas have an agreement called VOSs
 > Initiative. I > What means, customers having the products of the three companies have ahL > specialized call center - by contract of course - to solve the integration > problems.e >n< > Is there a  OC - Oracle x Compaq initiative ????? NO ! ! ! >n	 > Regardso >. > Fbio   M And why do they need to do this ? Going back to one of our favorite subjects, H ye olde E-Bay fiasco, the 3 companies mentioned were all set to market aH "reliable" solution which would avoid the problems that brought down theM system, when the techies concerned reliased that the solution about to be putl- out by marketing didn't actually work either.   J Hence the VOS, which but some brain power behind marketing hype and "fixed> it". The point of the exercise seemed to be to offer certifiedM configurations, not to solve integration problems, though you might read that. as the same thing.  G Just my spin on how it was presented by one of the companies concerned.a   Mike Shield.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:09:53 -0300.) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bro. Subject: Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - OnlyL Message-ID: <OF2FEBC841.E903A6BC-ON03256A56.0042C0F9@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H The primitive idea of VOS was to create a "unified call center" but now=   they decidet tot. mount the "complete solution" to the customer,   Regards> FC        5 Mike Shield <ms6@sanger.ac.uk> em 24/05/2001 08:56:13c  0 Favor responder a Mike Shield <ms6@sanger.ac.uk>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com'      . Assunto: Re: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only    * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  H > If you dont know Oracle, Sun and Veritas have an agreement called VOS=  
 > Initiative.sH > What means, customers having the products of the three companies have=  a@ > specialized call center - by contract of course - to solve the integration  > problems.  >m< > Is there a  OC - Oracle x Compaq initiative ????? NO ! ! ! >e	 > Regards  >l	 > F=E1biow  C And why do they need to do this ? Going back to one of our favoritey	 subjects, H ye olde E-Bay fiasco, the 3 companies mentioned were all set to market = ahH "reliable" solution which would avoid the problems that brought down th= ehH system, when the techies concerned reliased that the solution about to = be putt- out by marketing didn't actually work either.   H Hence the VOS, which but some brain power behind marketing hype and "fi= xede> it". The point of the exercise seemed to be to offer certifiedH configurations, not to solve integration problems, though you might rea= dl that as the same thing.  H Just my spin on how it was presented by one of the companies concerned.=     Mike Shield-           =u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 07:27:50 -0500r+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>r. Subject: RE: Oracle commitment with SUN - OnlyR Message-ID: <DC4745D1A85CA04180C83CDC706A9D180D962A@cthexc02.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Fabio,  F Just curious, but does this call center support Sun Cluster 3.0 OracleD configurations, that to the best of my knowledge, does not require = Veritasr anymore as well?   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services, Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brh, [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br] Sent: May 23, 2001 2:11 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com * Subject: Oracle commitment with SUN - Only    E If you dont know Oracle, Sun and Veritas have an agreement called VOSm Initiative.hG What means, customers having the products of the three companies have at@ specialized call center - by contract of course - to solve the = integrationo	 problems.e  : Is there a  OC - Oracle x Compaq initiative ????? NO ! ! !     Regardsd   F=E1bioS   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:15:08 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m Subject: Re: Oracle x NATO8 Message-ID: <tbjpgtoi6jbd64uuopql1c926atr8qll2u@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 23 May 2001 11:46:34 -0400, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robertt Deininger) wrote:3    D >Kevin McCoole, some kind of Oracle bigshot in the relationship withK >Compaq, spoke at yesterday's AlphaServer Diamond Forum.  He really annoyed K >me.  I guess it was partly due to his being the last speaker at the end ofaJ >a long day.  But mainly because I came out with the impression that he is7 >a mixture of clueless, hostile, or indifferent to VMS.M >2I >I'm not an Oracle user, so I can't really judge the impact of everythingc >he said.  Some items I noted: >gJ >Oracle will abandon the 11i applications on VMS.  They made this decisionG >some time ago, and he stated yesterday that they won't reconsider it. t  C This decision would have been made at the time VMS was declining attB 20% per year. As it is currently growing at maybe 10% per year anyA company *must* reconsider decisions based on such a change in the A underlying reality. I would have stated this at this point in hisi< speech and then asked if his statement that Oracle would notC reconsider indicated that Oracle's business planning in relation toe6 VMS applications is insane. But then I'm like that....  E >They decided this software was too difficult to maintain on multipleAH >platforms.  So it will only be supported on Unix (several) and NT.  The  F At this point I'd have piped up and asked how this statement fitted inD with Compaq's stated goal to increase VMS compatibility and Oracle'sC statements that Oracle 11i  was the most portable implementation ofa0 Oracle Apps so far (JAVA, web technologies etc).  D >Oracle folks present were very enthusiastic about helping customersI >migrate Oracle apps off of VMS.  VMS is only for the back-end database. d  E Why do Compaq even allow these people in the room if they are so keenoF to migrate people off of VMS.The stats show they are most likely to go to Sun, This *must* stop..  2 >(This part sounded so Palmerish I wanted to gag.) >oK >Oracle continues to promise that new versions will ship for VMS in 90 daysaJ >or less after the tier-1 platforms.  Tier-1 includes Tru64 and some otherJ >unixes, and NT, which will all get new version releases on the same day. J >VMS is the only non-unix system to get the special 90-day promise.  OtherK >platforms get no promise at all, I guess.  He thinks they'll get closer tohH >a 60-day delay in the next few releases.  DII-COE will help them a lot,* >and the delay should shrink dramatically. >iI >VMS is the 6th-biggest platform for Oracle, well ahead of #7.  The top 5.I >are NT and several unixes, including Tru64.  (I didn't note the order ofeG >the top 5.)  I believe Oracle is scared to abandon VMS, since they aren( >getting quite a chunk of money from it. > F >Oracle has seen revenue growth from VMS for the last quarter or two. " >Previously VMS was flat for them.  B As I said above given this fact then they must reconsider previous  decisions as a matter of course.   >tH >Compaq and Oracle have set up some kind of joint-support agreement thatH >will become effective over the next few months.  Access to each other'sF >support databases, perhaps less red tape when a problem involves bothI >organizations.  His description of this initiative was not very clear toMK >me.  Most of it will be behind the scenes from a customer's point of view,i9 >I think.  VMS should benefit from this as much as Tru64.  >rI >Compaq continues to transfer software technology, especially clustering,MK >to Oracle.  This will help Oracle on Tru64, perhaps also on VMS.  It's notrH >clear to me whether Compaq gets anything in return, except Oracle won't8 >tell them to go to heck, at least for a while longer.   >eG >Compaq is the only Oracle platform that doesn't have it's own databasefB >product.  Sun, HP, IBM, etc all have their own mid-range database  $ And we all know who's fault that is!  ? >offerings.  This is why Oracle is getting so cozy with Compaq.- > B >Compaq and Oracle will continue to suggest, test and certify someI >hardware-software platforms for Oracle.  These will be alphaservers with6H >most of the detailed hardware configurations already specified, down toH >the specific adapter and memory choices.  I think these prefered systemI >packages will be available with special part numbers, maybe bundled with K >Oracle software.  Again, I was confused about the details.  The focus hereeK >is CLEARLY Tru64.  I don't think they have done anything like this for VMShG >systems yet.  Someone suggested the same program could be done for VMSiE >with little extra effort, since the hardware work would be virtually!C >identical.  This got a mumbled responce of non-commitment from Mr. < >McCoole.  (Most of what he said regarding VMS was mumbled.) >-J >Someone asked about the company's continuing support for Rdb and CDD.  OnF >this, McCoole would not say anything at all.  I think he has heard ofD >these products, but perhaps did not realize they still exist at hisH >company.  (At the December OpenVMS diamond forum, there was an Rdb guy,  B In that case he most certainly should not have been talking to VMS
 customers.  K >and he was very positive and upbeat.  It's likely that McCoole is just the " >wrong messenger for Rdb and CDD.) >DD >Mr. McCoole freqently said "Oracle is Oracle", meaning the back-endI >database software is very independent of platform.  VMS will get all thes6 >features and interfaces that the other platforms get. >uH >Overall, as a non-oracle person, I felt that Mr. McCoole was a horribleI >choice to present to a VMS audience.  (He also gave essentially the same J >talk to the Tru64 crowd in the parallel session.)  I don't think he likesK >VMS, I don't think he understands it, and I don't think he was prepared tot% >address the concerns of VMS folks.      Sad.   >nG >That's an amateur's perspective on the Oracle presentation.  HopefullydD >someone more familiar with this arena will also report on the day'sF >festivities.  Alas, I don't think Terry Shannon was at the forum. :-( >n > D >> It must be worth millions of dollars to Sun to be able to counterA >> Compaq's renewed VMS marketing by pointing out that SAP has nolH >> confidence at all in VMS and Oracle are luke warm as well. That;s howI >> they'll spin it and, to be honest, they are probably currently correct F >> about these particular companies views. How Compaq fixes this is toG >> get at least one of Oracle and SAP *absolutely fully onboard at *ANY H >> REPEAT ANY COST*. Under Marcello about 50% of the work to really pushC >> OpenVMS has been done. The final 50% hopefully is still to come.n >cB >If yesterday was any indication, Oracle isn't even thinking aboutD >improving support for VMS.  They'll have to be dragged, kicking and4 >screaming.  A big job, but somebody needs to do it.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:43:09 +0100>  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: Oracle x NATOH Message-ID: <OFEBB825E6.2A8486CB-ON80256A56.003AB0A8@qedi.quintiles.com>  3 Alan Greig quoted Richard Deininger and commented :> >>>k >eG >Compaq is the only Oracle platform that doesn't have it's own databasetB >product.  Sun, HP, IBM, etc all have their own mid-range database  $ And we all know who's fault that is!  ? >offerings.  This is why Oracle is getting so cozy with Compaq.y <<<e  G This is not strictly true.  Although the Tandem offering is perhaps too K specialized for "general" business use they do have a database product that J runs on Himalaya.  I'm not aware of the full details, but from what littleD I remember it's also probably more in line with the way that they do* business as well (have two of everything). Steve.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 09:02:16 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)s Subject: Re: Oracle x NATO3 Message-ID: <LP$6h8pjfkMj@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  ` In article <tbjpgtoi6jbd64uuopql1c926atr8qll2u@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  G > Why do Compaq even allow these people in the room if they are so keen.H > to migrate people off of VMS.The stats show they are most likely to go > to Sun, This *must* stop.l  D Don't shoot the messenger if he is giving you the true Legacy Oracle view of VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 07:02:12 -0400s/ From: Dave Butenhof <David.Butenhof@compaq.com> + Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearingi* Message-ID: <3B0CEA34.845E7AFF@compaq.com>   Alexander Terekhov wrote:t   > Dave Butenhof wrote: >o > [...]fW > > PORTABILITY doesn't mean that you can do any bloody thing you want and have it work Y > > everywhere. Rather, it means that the standard has specified a range of uses that ARErZ > > portable. If you don't do things beyond the scope of the standard, or things precluded! > > by the standard, you're fine.6 >34 > what exactly is "beyond the scope of the standard"8 > and/or "precluded by the standard" with the following: >t2 >      char charForThreadA; // r/w thread A _only_2 >      char charForThreadB; // r/w thread B _only_  V POSIX says you cannot have multiple threads using "a memory location" without explicitV synchronization. POSIX does not claim to know, nor try to specify, what constitutes "a[ memory location" or access to it, across all possible system architectures. On systems thateZ don't use atomic byte access instructions, your program is in violation of the rules. EvenZ when it's not in violation, if the values are used a lot it's a poor design; you'll thrashU the cache coherency hardware systems. In practice, you should always keep shared datas\ isolated by cache lines from data that is "shared differently" or that is not shared at all.Z (Unfortunately, "cache line" is also not a particularly viable concept at the level of the POSIX standard.)  Z What's lacking, perhaps, is a requirement that some particular C data size is "safe"; thatU all possible machines & compilers must support and maintain a definition of "a memory W location" no larger than some type, such as "int" or "long". The logical candidate heree\ would be sig_atomic_t. Though the requirement isn't spelled out, this must have the requiredW characteristics in order to be safe for signal handler access as specified. To say that-\ anything of size "int" and "long" (and perhaps "float" and "double"?) are safe would be more\ useful, but also more difficult to express in the context of POSIX. (Which is a source levelK API standard, not a description of low-level machine or compiler behavior.)D  X Java has a much easier job, because Java IS a full machine model. Nevertheless, the JavaZ memory model is currently badly flawed (and a bad model may be worse than none). And, evenY when it's fixed, it will impose substantial performance overhead on all applications thatv[ will benefit only a relatively small class of programs. One can build safe protocols out ofm% fast protocols -- but not vice versa.   C /------------------[ David.Butenhof@compaq.com ]------------------\lC | Compaq Computer Corporation              POSIX Thread Architect |hC |     My book: http://www.awl.com/cseng/titles/0-201-63392-2/     | C \-----[ http://home.earthlink.net/~anneart/family/dave.html ]-----/b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 07:21:48 -0400t/ From: Dave Butenhof <David.Butenhof@compaq.com> + Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearing * Message-ID: <3B0CEECC.EC7EF408@compaq.com>   Dima Volodin wrote:d   > Dave Butenhof wrote: > >eN > > Right, and since the C and C++ standards don't specify the size of a byte, >eQ > Except that both guarantee that it's at least eight bits, and this guarantee is ) > good enough for a portable application.t  W Of course. As long as the portable application doesn't require that a byte be exactly 8 R bits. The point is that portability imposes constraints. You may accept some while4 rejecting others, but that doesn't change the facts.  W > > PORTABILITY doesn't mean that you can do any bloody thing you want and have it work:Y > > everywhere. Rather, it means that the standard has specified a range of uses that AREiZ > > portable. If you don't do things beyond the scope of the standard, or things precluded! > > by the standard, you're fine.e > O > Without granularity specs in the standard, you're way out of the scope of thec5 > standard in almost every code example in your book.t  X You don't run into problems except with adjacent data of relatively small size that have[ different "sharing scopes". This is much like saying you don't run into problems as long asrP you don't assume that a byte is exactly 8 bits. It's not hard to do, but it is aG constraint, and code that doesn't accept the constraint isn't portable.u  Y While it would have been nice if POSIX could have specified "small" and "close" such that [ one could portably use data that is "big enough" and/or "sufficiently far". This might eveneU have been generally acceptable for "long", though probably not for "int", and I can'trV imagine trying to get concensus on an acceptable definition of "far" for "small" data.  W Of course, it really did do this, though not directly or in a manner quite as generallydW useful as you might wish. The definition of the type sig_atomic_t is sufficient for the0Y needs. Therefore, by POSIX, data of type sig_atomic_t is safe, and all "nearby" data with V different sharing scope must, to be fully portable, be of type sig_atomic_t. If you'reO willing to make reasonable pragmatic inferences that will be safe on all likelycZ "mainstream" systems, you could extend that guarantee to data the size of sig_atomic_t, orW placed so that each smaller item is not within sizeof(sig_atomic_t) bytes of either the.T previous or following item. This is, in fact, what most portable threaded code does.  Z To do much better than this requires an ABI (binary interface for a particular machine) orR an abstract machine model (like Java, which has its own set of problems). Language[ standards like C and C++, if they chose to recognize the existence of threads, could easily Z place constraints on the language that, for example, data of "int" or "long", or aggregateU data of at least that size, must be protected from corruption by concurrent writes too( adjacent data of similar characteristic.  C /------------------[ David.Butenhof@compaq.com ]------------------\sC | Compaq Computer Corporation              POSIX Thread Architect |sC |     My book: http://www.awl.com/cseng/titles/0-201-63392-2/     |eC \-----[ http://home.earthlink.net/~anneart/family/dave.html ]-----/u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:18:46 -0400e  From: Dima Volodin <dvv@dvv.org>+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearingc' Message-ID: <3B0D1846.B654E782@dvv.org>t   Dave Butenhof wrote: >  > Dima Volodin wrote:  >  > > Dave Butenhof wrote: > > > P > > > Right, and since the C and C++ standards don't specify the size of a byte, > >uS > > Except that both guarantee that it's at least eight bits, and this guarantee isM+ > > good enough for a portable application.: > Y > Of course. As long as the portable application doesn't require that a byte be exactly 8eT > bits. The point is that portability imposes constraints. You may accept some while6 > rejecting others, but that doesn't change the facts.  G Exactly what constraint is broken when I access two adjacent bytes fromd different threads?  Y > > > PORTABILITY doesn't mean that you can do any bloody thing you want and have it work1[ > > > everywhere. Rather, it means that the standard has specified a range of uses that AREe\ > > > portable. If you don't do things beyond the scope of the standard, or things precluded# > > > by the standard, you're fine.c > >aQ > > Without granularity specs in the standard, you're way out of the scope of then7 > > standard in almost every code example in your book.r > Z > You don't run into problems except with adjacent data of relatively small size that have] > different "sharing scopes". This is much like saying you don't run into problems as long as R > you don't assume that a byte is exactly 8 bits. It's not hard to do, but it is aI > constraint, and code that doesn't accept the constraint isn't portable.u  P When I don't assume that a byte is exactly 8 bits, I can express it in C or C++,M but "adjacent data of relatively small size" is something that neither C, norn: C++, nor POSIX define. So what are you talking about here?  [ > While it would have been nice if POSIX could have specified "small" and "close" such that ] > one could portably use data that is "big enough" and/or "sufficiently far". This might even W > have been generally acceptable for "long", though probably not for "int", and I can'tsX > imagine trying to get concensus on an acceptable definition of "far" for "small" data. > Y > Of course, it really did do this, though not directly or in a manner quite as generallyiY > useful as you might wish. The definition of the type sig_atomic_t is sufficient for the [ > needs. Therefore, by POSIX, data of type sig_atomic_t is safe, and all "nearby" data withtN > different sharing scope must, to be fully portable, be of type sig_atomic_t.  J Could you give a reference to the chapter and verse that binds thread data= safety and sig_atomic_t? I've been asking about it all along.    > If you'reaQ > willing to make reasonable pragmatic inferences that will be safe on all likelyi\ > "mainstream" systems, you could extend that guarantee to data the size of sig_atomic_t, orY > placed so that each smaller item is not within sizeof(sig_atomic_t) bytes of either theeV > previous or following item. This is, in fact, what most portable threaded code does.  B A "reasonable pragmatic inference" was that DCL was a smart thing.  \ > To do much better than this requires an ABI (binary interface for a particular machine) orK > an abstract machine model (like Java, which has its own set of problems).   J It's enough to introduce POSIX rules (based on thorough analysis of commonO implementation practices, of course) that unambiguously govern data safety. AndeJ it's up to POSIX implementations to map these rules to compilers and ABIs.  
 > Language] > standards like C and C++, if they chose to recognize the existence of threads, could easily \ > place constraints on the language that, for example, data of "int" or "long", or aggregateW > data of at least that size, must be protected from corruption by concurrent writes tol* > adjacent data of similar characteristic.  E POSIX already recognizes the existence of threads and places specifichP constraints on a C implementation while doing so. I cannot see any problems withK making these constraints a little bit more consistent with the name and thed intent of the standard.d  E > /------------------[ David.Butenhof@compaq.com ]------------------\    Dima   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:37:10 GMTt$ From: Joe Seigh <jseigh@genuity.com>+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearingr+ Message-ID: <3B0D1C96.A2FF422C@genuity.com>    Dave Butenhof wrote: >  > Alexander Terekhov wrote:  >  > > Dave Butenhof wrote: > X > POSIX says you cannot have multiple threads using "a memory location" without explicitX > synchronization. POSIX does not claim to know, nor try to specify, what constitutes "a] > memory location" or access to it, across all possible system architectures. On systems thats\ > don't use atomic byte access instructions, your program is in violation of the rules. Even\ > when it's not in violation, if the values are used a lot it's a poor design; you'll thrashW > the cache coherency hardware systems. In practice, you should always keep shared datas^ > isolated by cache lines from data that is "shared differently" or that is not shared at all.\ > (Unfortunately, "cache line" is also not a particularly viable concept at the level of the > POSIX standard.) >   [ That raises an interesting point.  Cache is supposed to be transparent except as an overalla[ performance increase.  Hardware designers spend a lot of time analyzing program behavior toeZ optimize their cache design.  If you start taking into account the structure and layout of_ the cache in your programs, you are going to introduce a positive feedback loop in the analysis ] of program behavior.  This could then effect a change in cache design which then increase ther\ benefit for one kind of behavior and decrease it for other types of behavior causing further% feedback as things evolve further on.i  Y I've seen code that takes cache layout into account.  It's not a pretty sight.  I'd thinkd= twice before increasing the reward for that kind of behavior.i  ^ I think cache visiblity should be left out of POSIX and left up to the pthread implementations^ and hardware designers to how best deal with the behavior of well designed and well structured	 programs.e  	 Joe Seigh    ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 08:43:36 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearingS3 Message-ID: <hH4jzuVmJTkE@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  \ In article <3B0B96DE.7E4FB9E3@compaq.com>, Dave Butenhof <David.Butenhof@compaq.com> writes: > Y > Right, and since the C and C++ standards don't specify the size of a byte, or the orderpW > of bytes in an int or long, clearly THEY cannot be standard, either. You oversimplifya > the situation.  G Did the ANSI standard for C drop the K&R claim that C is for 8 bit byte 
 computers?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationi= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupeE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingo   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 08:42:04 -0500- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearinga3 Message-ID: <g3cLSbKdwV15@eisner.encompasserve.org>'  J In article <3B0AB219.B41BCE5D@dvv.org>, Dima Volodin <dvv@dvv.org> writes:O > It's not a problem if these #ifdefs are explicitly covered by POSIX, and it's N > not a problem if these #ifdefs deal with something beyond the scope of POSIX3 > (like device names and device-specific ioctls()).t  H No, that is the problem.  I went where POSIX didn't go and it was a messG of UNIX-variations on ioctl().  The point is a standard could go there.t  M > Well, if you consider Java specs to be standard, it's one of those that do.l  H I've never seen a standard Java class for accessing tapes.  What is it? F Can I use it to control block size, rewinds, density, compression, and< all those otrher things which are not a stram of data bytes?  O > Without memory granularity requirements and/or a way to account for different R > ways different architectures deal with memory granularity, I don't see how POSIX; > threads interface can be portable (as the name suggests).e >   H The threads are portable so long as your need no data synchronization orA you do all data synchronization with POSIX thread calls making noiB assumptions about the underlying memory system architecture (don't3 assume ANY access to thread shared data is atomic).c  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationn= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupfE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyinga   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:28:21 -0700!+ From: David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com>g+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearingt- Message-ID: <3B0D44B5.509338D4@webmaster.com>e   Joe Seigh wrote:  ` > I think cache visiblity should be left out of POSIX and left up to the pthread implementations` > and hardware designers to how best deal with the behavior of well designed and well structured > programs.   A 	Well the standard wouldn't really be useful unless it provided a-H minimal cache visibility guarantee that both could be implemented on allG sane platforms and was sufficient to allow reasonably-peforming code tosF be written that was guaranteed to work sanely. This is exactly how far the standard goes.   	DS4   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:56:14 GMTaL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")/ Subject: Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone? 8 Message-ID: <009FC77D.2D532FF7@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  g In article <3B0C45DA.111B9A27@mail.ourservers.net>, Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes:a7 >Anyone know of a LISP system for OpenVMS Alpha or VAX?o >o/ >I would appreciate any help and input on this.e  D Try googling around for SIOD, which (if memory serves) is a freewareC multiplatform SCHEME package by George J. Carrette that ran on VMS.s   -- Alana  O ===============================================================================t0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210tO ===============================================================================t   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:21:28 +0000 (UTC)c' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)_/ Subject: Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?s+ Message-ID: <9ej1so$hp4$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>c   In article <009FC77D.2D532FF7@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:yh >In article <3B0C45DA.111B9A27@mail.ourservers.net>, Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes:8 >>Anyone know of a LISP system for OpenVMS Alpha or VAX? >>0 >>I would appreciate any help and input on this. > E >Try googling around for SIOD, which (if memory serves) is a freewareeD >multiplatform SCHEME package by George J. Carrette that ran on VMS. >n  J There is also POPLOG which includes POP-11, PROLOG, Standard ML and Common LISP.u  ? This was (I believe) originally developed at Sussex University.sF It was then sold as a commercial product by ISL but now appears to be 0 available as an open source product again see :-     http://www.poplog.org/  J POPLOG has pretty much always run under VMS (as well as a variety of Unix + platforms and microsoft operating systems).s    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:40:59 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>/ Subject: Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?e< Message-ID: <Lb8P6.3068$zl5.1161972@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "Robert Alan Byer" <byer@mail.ourservers.net> wrote in message- news:3B0C45DA.111B9A27@mail.ourservers.net...b8 > Anyone know of a LISP system for OpenVMS Alpha or VAX? >u0 > I would appreciate any help and input on this.  L There was the old VAX LISP product, Interlisp, and I believe several others.# Dunno what happened to 'em, though.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:37:33 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n/ Subject: Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?s8 Message-ID: <82aqgtonkm6surll5tjbn2g94cnoprae4f@4ax.com>  B On Thu, 24 May 2001 13:21:28 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) wrote:X   >In article <009FC77D.2D532FF7@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:i >>In article <3B0C45DA.111B9A27@mail.ourservers.net>, Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes:e9 >>>Anyone know of a LISP system for OpenVMS Alpha or VAX?t >>>s1 >>>I would appreciate any help and input on this.c >>F >>Try googling around for SIOD, which (if memory serves) is a freewareE >>multiplatform SCHEME package by George J. Carrette that ran on VMS.  >> >xK >There is also POPLOG which includes POP-11, PROLOG, Standard ML and Common  >LISP.  E I recall an implementation of either Prolog, POP-2 or Lisp written ineE Pascal. Compiled on a DEC2060 under TOPS-20 (Chuck Hedrick's SPASCAL) E in around 8 seconds and about 4 minutes on a VAX 11/780 (DEC Pascal).eA The Rutgers (Hedrick) SPascal compiler could compile itself in 30 C seconds. Incredible. One day I'll find my TK50s written around 1988r' with all of these goodies stashed away.   @ >This was (I believe) originally developed at Sussex University.G >It was then sold as a commercial product by ISL but now appears to be d1 >available as an open source product again see :-u >r >l >http://www.poplog.org/r >yK >POPLOG has pretty much always run under VMS (as well as a variety of Unix n, >platforms and microsoft operating systems). >t >t >David Webbt >VMS and Unix team leadert >CCSSe >Middlesex Universityo >    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 25 May 2001 00:33:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?o- Message-ID: <87g0duk8p8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes:f  8 > Anyone know of a LISP system for OpenVMS Alpha or VAX?  < Vax LISP was on the CDs till 99 or so. Alpha lisps are a bit thin at the moment.a   Oh, and Emacs of course. :)g   -- b< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H Spam-To: uce@ftc.gov,enforcement@sec.gov,sness@fcc.gov,hfurchtg@fcc.gov,#   mpowell@fcc.gov,gtristan@fcc.gov g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:08:21 -0500t1 From: Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> / Subject: Re: Question: LISP For OpenVMS Anyone?r2 Message-ID: <3B0CF9B5.B93E8BD@mail.ourservers.net>  
 D.Webb wrote:l >  > In article <009FC77D.2D532FF7@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:eI > >In article <3B0C45DA.111B9A27@mail.ourservers.net>, Robert Alan Byer >r: > >>Anyone know of a LISP system for OpenVMS Alpha or VAX? > >>2 > >>I would appreciate any help and input on this. > > G > >Try googling around for SIOD, which (if memory serves) is a freewaretF > >multiplatform SCHEME package by George J. Carrette that ran on VMS. > >c > L > There is also POPLOG which includes POP-11, PROLOG, Standard ML and Common > LISP.  > A > This was (I believe) originally developed at Sussex University.tG > It was then sold as a commercial product by ISL but now appears to be 2 > available as an open source product again see :- >  > http://www.poplog.org/ > K > POPLOG has pretty much always run under VMS (as well as a variety of Unixw- > platforms and microsoft operating systems).- >-   Thanks, I'll take a look at it.t  G If nothing else I think I'll have a look at the GNU GPL to see if I can2 get it running under OpenVMS :}    Thanks.n  v -- .  @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:23:31 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> Subject: Retrofit Patches (Was: Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2)4 Message-ID: <C2256A56.00448377.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  B I'd wager it has something to do with mixed-version VMSclustering,) especially in the volume shadowing arena.h. Others more knowledgeable may want to comment.          + R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk on 05/24/2001 06:04:31 AMr  # Please respond to R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comd cc:m' Subject:  Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2n      J Retrofit patches, I don't know why Compaq makes them, it's not like anyone asks for them ;)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:57:03 +0100 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>* Subject: RE: savesets not exceeding 650 MBN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEF84@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  H I don't fully understand the concern about writing backup savesets on toL multiple CDs. If the writeable CD is seen by VMS as a "standard" demountableL disk (or tape) device it ought to be possible to write backup savesets on toL multiple CDs. If the output device on to which you're writing the saveset isH mounted /FOREIGN , BACKUP will ask for extra CD volumes to be mounted asJ required: it doesn't matter whether it's a disk, tape or otherwise as long% as the device is seen as demountable.eK However, if the CD driver is non-standard (i.e. not fully functional) therec@ may be problems and I don't have a writeable CD to check it out.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 02:53:26 -0400o( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>& Subject: Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2) Message-ID: <3B0CAFE5.149B05@bigfoot.com>o  L I can't answer #1, but as far as question #2 goes, it should work just fine.   HM   Dick Adams wrote:    > Hi,aL >     I look after several Alphas running OpenVMS 6.2 and have always bootedL > from the CD when performing backups on the system disks. A recent HardwareN > failure saw us loading up the latest firmware, but now I can't boot from theN > CD, it starts booting but a few minutes into the process it resets and gives3 > an error "Machine BUGCHECK while in kernel mode".r >aH >     I got out the 6.2 Upgrade and installation manual and followed theA > instructions in appendix B for creating an Alternate boot Disk.o >  >     So far so good.s >aK >     After shutting down and booting from the Alternate Disk I get the $$$ 5 > prompt. When I try and issue a MOUNT command I get:X' > %CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'POLICY'm > -CLI-E-ENTNF >  >     So far no good.  >eG >     I have been able to boot from a VMS 7.21 CD but haven't tried anysL > commands like MOUNT, I also have the 7.1-2 CD but haven't tried it at all. >n >     My questions are:oJ >     1)    Is there some simple fix (or even an explanation) for my MOUNT" > problem when booting standalone? >tM >     2)    If the 7.21 CD enables me to issue commands, will an Image backupiJ > of a 6.2 system using 7.21 backup be restorable and usable under 6.2? (IK > have seen the discussion on BACKUP /ALIAS etc but don't really understand  > which qualifier to use). >d > TIA 
 >     Dick   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:48:33 +0100-  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com& Subject: Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2H Message-ID: <OFBE7D86F7.7B3172D1-ON80256A56.00353603@qedi.quintiles.com>  K The problem of the policy qualifier is probably the same one that hits v7.1xH and its brethern (I found it on 7.1-1H2) when creating an alternate bootH disk with AXPVMS$PCSI_INSTALL_MIN.COM, the supercedant of STABACKIT.COM.  G If you copy SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE from your "running" systemoG disk to the same directory and name on the alternate disk you should bet sorted.e  H One of the patches which you have applied to your system has altered theI image that sits behind MOUNT and its command definition in DCLTABLES.EXE.fD The minimum installation that you've put onto an alternate disk usesE DCLTABLES.TEMPLATE though which it replicates as DCLTABLES.EXE on therJ alternate disk.  Because the mount image its got is the new one it expectsH the /POLICY qualifier but the command tables don't support it (being theJ original ones in the .TEMPLATE file) and hence the error.  It means you'reJ unable to issue a mount command whether it be for tape or disk which kindaB nulls the reason for having the alternate system disk in the first place......n Steve.  ? Dick Adams (adams dot dick dot rc at bhp dot com dot au) wrote:k >>>nI     After shutting down and booting from the Alternate Disk I get the $$$ 3 prompt. When I try and issue a MOUNT command I get:a% %CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'POLICY'd -CLI-E-ENTNF       So far no good.   E     I have been able to boot from a VMS 7.21 CD but haven't tried anytJ commands like MOUNT, I also have the 7.1-2 CD but haven't tried it at all.       My questions are:eH     1)    Is there some simple fix (or even an explanation) for my MOUNT  problem when booting standalone?  K     2)    If the 7.21 CD enables me to issue commands, will an Image backupoH of a 6.2 system using 7.21 backup be restorable and usable under 6.2? (II have seen the discussion on BACKUP /ALIAS etc but don't really understandr which qualifier to use). <<<-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:04:31 +0100@* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>& Subject: Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2+ Message-ID: <9eimbg$i9a@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>g  - <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in messageDB news:OFBE7D86F7.7B3172D1-ON80256A56.00353603@qedi.quintiles.com...  I > If you copy SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE from your "running" system I > disk to the same directory and name on the alternate disk you should beo	 > sorted.a  B Or if the new MOUNT.CLD is lying around in SYS$UPDATE, you can SET COMMAND it.8  J > One of the patches which you have applied to your system has altered theK > image that sits behind MOUNT and its command definition in DCLTABLES.EXE.r  J POLICY is to do with shadowing, so I guess it's one of the shadowing ECOs.J Retrofit patches, I don't know why Compaq makes them, it's not like anyone asks for them ;)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:38:18 +0100B  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com& Subject: Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2H Message-ID: <OF53D26558.373DA421-ON80256A56.0037CFC0@qedi.quintiles.com>  F Possibly true, but the Eco would have to modify mount because it's theG mount command that needs to be aware of policy for mounting the virtualeG unit and dismounting it (either intentionally or unintentionally).  ThenA /POLICY qualifier is on the mount command, not the shadow driver.   J Plus I am 99% sure that it was a mount patch that was guilty in 7.1 rather than a shadowing patch.o Steve.   Richard Brodie commented : >>>aI > If you copy SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE from your "running" systemtI > disk to the same directory and name on the alternate disk you should beo	 > sorted.e  B Or if the new MOUNT.CLD is lying around in SYS$UPDATE, you can SET COMMAND it.   J > One of the patches which you have applied to your system has altered theK > image that sits behind MOUNT and its command definition in DCLTABLES.EXE.r  J POLICY is to do with shadowing, so I guess it's one of the shadowing ECOs.J Retrofit patches, I don't know why Compaq makes them, it's not like anyone asks for them ;) <<<a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:13:14 -0400u; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>Y" Subject: Re: Stop a "lost process"$ Message-ID: <3b0d2522$1@news.si.com>  I >The user cannot login again because the LOGINOUT is locking his account.    This is easy to get around:   C $ backup/ignore=interlock sys$system:susuaf.dat sys$common:[sysexe]   K This will create a new copy of the UAF and the person should be able to log-	 in again.- --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventt< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:57:58 +0100t  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>8 Subject: Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants+ Message-ID: <VA.000003a2.771d6e9a@sture.ch>u  A In article <3B0BD301.D02EFD8F@uk.sun.com>, Andrew harrison wrote:r2 > From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsi: > Subject: Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants' > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:10:57 +0100a# > Reply-To: Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COMS >  > David Mathog wrote:  > > a > > In article <3B0541CD.17B93E27@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:. > > >Bill Todd wrote:AP > > >> Which is exactly what file system expansion does when used in conjunctionL > > >> with a logical volume manager (or hardware RAID device) that allows aD > > >> logical volume to be expanded on the fly by adding new disks. > > >> > > >gF > > >Which is what I was refering to. All the LVM's that we support onC > > >Solaris allow you to add a new piece of storage to an existing D > > >volume and then both major filesystems also allow you to expand
 > > >into it.a > > N > > Right.  And what _we're_ saying is that you've been able to do this on VMSO > > forever.  Except that you don't expand a file system on VMS, you just mountOG > > the whole disk and maybe bind it into a volume set.  If you want to=H > > restrict usage to part of the disk you use disk quotas.  VMS doesn'tO > > partition disks and honestly I've never seen any reason to do so on this OS.K > > - it's a Unix/ Windows thing with no utility on VMS.  Well, it might be9O > > useful if you wanted a dual boot system with one disk, but disks are now soOO > > cheap it's easier just to put in another drive.  And it was never necessaryrL > > for things like "swap" which used to need (and usually still have) their  > > own disk partitions on Unix. > >  > - > I am not talking about partitioning disks. ? > @ > I am refering to the ability to take say a filesystem mounted F > on a logical volume that is for example one whole disk, add another > > disk to the logical volume to make the logical volume larger: > and then to make the filesystem grow into the new space ( > without taking the filesystem offline. > H As David pointed out, this ability has been there in VMS "since forever"F - probably with the advent of ODS2 disks, to be more precise. Think of' something like a couple of decades ago.p  .F Subsequent "shrinking" of the disk would be pretty tricky to do whilstC leaving the volume online, as ODS2 deliberately spreads data acrosse' spindles on a multiple disk volume set.e   ___v
 Paul Sture Switzerland-   ------------------------------    Date: 23 May 2001 14:01:58 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e8 Subject: Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants3 Message-ID: <zUNPfCDZAqMN@eisner.encompasserve.org>B  ] In article <3B0BD301.D02EFD8F@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:  > David Mathog wrote:   M >> Right.  And what _we're_ saying is that you've been able to do this on VMStN >> forever.  Except that you don't expand a file system on VMS, you just mountF >> the whole disk and maybe bind it into a volume set.  If you want toG >> restrict usage to part of the disk you use disk quotas.  VMS doesn't@N >> partition disks and honestly I've never seen any reason to do so on this OSJ >> - it's a Unix/ Windows thing with no utility on VMS.  Well, it might beN >> useful if you wanted a dual boot system with one disk, but disks are now soN >> cheap it's easier just to put in another drive.  And it was never necessaryK >> for things like "swap" which used to need (and usually still have) theirv >> own disk partitions on Unix.m >> u > - > I am not talking about partitioning disks. s > @ > I am refering to the ability to take say a filesystem mounted F > on a logical volume that is for example one whole disk, add another > > disk to the logical volume to make the logical volume larger: > and then to make the filesystem grow into the new space ( > without taking the filesystem offline.  ? The "filesystem" term you use is Unix-specific, but the generalo? concept you describe seems to be (as others have said) what VMS > calls a "Bound Volume Set".  It was certainly introduced prior to 1982.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:22:49 -0400u From: William_Bochnik@acml.com8 Subject: Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants> Message-ID: <OF70FA6CF1.9796E74B-ON85256A56.005442E0@acml.com>  ? If I remember correctly, bound volumes need to be dismounted tol? add to them.  Some of the limitations of VMS can be overcome byb" logicals and logical search lists.  ? This whole discussion sounds like they're complaining about onec= shortcoming of VMS by pointing out one thing it only does ok.rA How about other things like, oh I dont know, autoconfiguration ofd9 devices at boot time - something VMS has had for DECADES.-   Sorry for the rant.-  @ ----- Forwarded by William J Bochnik/New York/ACMC on 05/24/2001 11:22 AM -----v                                                                                                                       v                     Kilgallen@eisner.decus.                                                                           v                     org.nospam                             To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                                 v                                                            cc:                                                        v                     05/23/2001 03:01 PM            Subject:     Re: The Internet, Tru64 and other unix variants       v                                                                                                                       v                                                                                                                             : In article <3B0BD301.D02EFD8F@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: > David Mathog wrote:e  A >> Right.  And what _we're_ saying is that you've been able to doF this on VMSn? >> forever.  Except that you don't expand a file system on VMS,D you just mount> >> the whole disk and maybe bind it into a volume set.  If you want tor? >> restrict usage to part of the disk you use disk quotas.  VMS  doesn'tt@ >> partition disks and honestly I've never seen any reason to do
 so on this OSrA >> - it's a Unix/ Windows thing with no utility on VMS.  Well, ito might be= >> useful if you wanted a dual boot system with one disk, butt disks are now so> >> cheap it's easier just to put in another drive.  And it was never necessaryy? >> for things like "swap" which used to need (and usually stille have) their  >> own disk partitions on Unix.c >> > , > I am not talking about partitioning disks. >G? > I am refering to the ability to take say a filesystem mountedi= > on a logical volume that is for example one whole disk, adds anotherk> > disk to the logical volume to make the logical volume larger9 > and then to make the filesystem grow into the new space:( > without taking the filesystem offline.  ? The "filesystem" term you use is Unix-specific, but the generalB? concept you describe seems to be (as others have said) what VMS-> calls a "Bound Volume Set".  It was certainly introduced prior to 1982.      F ______________________________________________________________________  : The information contained in this transmission may contain< privileged and confidential information and is intended only< for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the< intended recipient,  or an employee or agent responsible for? delivering this message to the intended recipient,  any review,-@ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication> is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,A please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroya# all copies of the original message.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:57:58 +0100t  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>. Subject: Re: This will add a smile to your day+ Message-ID: <VA.000003a1.771d6d3c@sture.ch>   G In article <XjVO6.684$fi2.15983@news.cpqcorp.net>, Sue Skonetski wrote:r4 > From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsc, > Subject: This will add a smile to your day' > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:46:05 -0400  > ' > It is a parody but I loved the title.- >  >  >  > Warm Regards,  >  > Sue: >  >  > A > http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=3ac899d5-073640a0: >: Enjoyed. Bookmarked.  Distributed.  
 Thanks :-)  C PS for others: The title Sue refers to is "California Power Crunch u. ousts Windows NT: Industry returns to OpenVMS" ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerlandf   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:06:11 -0400)0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com>. Subject: Re: This will add a smile to your dayD Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010524080611.00919a30@discovery.fuentez.com>  ' At 04:46 PM 5/23/2001 -0400, you wrote: & >It is a parody but I loved the title. >s >d >, >Warm Regards, >a >Sue >s >e >v@ >http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=3ac899d5-073640a0   Thanks Sue!     This is priceless! Next Title...  I Startrek fans ecstatic!! -- NVIDIA adds VT-100 and ReGis Graphics supportB$ to latest GeForce 3 graphics card!!!   :-).   Regards,   Jiml      8 --------------------------------------------------------7 FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions-17       from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door.28 -------------------------------------------------------- Jim Jennis, Technical Director Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc. 211 Discovery Road, Suite 2o Martinsburg, WV. 25401-0824  USAs  # Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235f Fax:   +001 (304) 263-0702% Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com r        jhjennis@shentel.net & WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:40:54 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brI. Subject: Re: This will add a smile to your dayL Message-ID: <OF80D91458.861C7993-ON03256A56.004B0B9C@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  , I want to cry .... I tought it was true ....  E We are having power problems in Brazil too and I sent this email to as friendA (a Compaq reseller)..... before  I noticed it was a parody .....:o -(((((((((((     Regardsi   FC        C "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> em 23/05/2001 17:46:05d  > Favor responder a "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como      * Assunto: This will add a smile to your day    % It is a parody but I loved the title.       
 Warm Regards,,   Sue       ? http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=3ac899d5-073640a0a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:45:50 -0400M+ From: Brendan Welch <brendan_welch@uml.edu> . Subject: Re: This will add a smile to your day' Message-ID: <3B0D108E.B5599104@uml.edu>2   Sue Skonetski wrote: > ' > It is a parody but I loved the title.a >  > Warm Regards,n >  > Sue/ > A > http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=3ac899d5-073640a0   D  "...who never really grasped the concept of Linux, are now flocking flocked back their..."  $ Are these sheep, with flocked backs? --E Brendan Welch, system analyst, Univ. of Massachusetts - Lowell, W1LPG5   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:42:23 +0200o, From: "Nico van der Boom" <njvdboom@caiw.nl>. Subject: Re: This will add a smile to your day, Message-ID: <9ej6is$p3t$1@porthos.nl.uu.net>  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messageM, news:XjVO6.684$fi2.15983@news.cpqcorp.net...' > It is a parody but I loved the title.m >n >e >t > Warm Regards,h >d > Sueo >d >  >nA > http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=3ac899d5-073640a0t >  >g Great,  / also, VAX Retirement Bodes Ill for Windows 2000A  ? http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=399d471f-08abcae0a     --   CU,C Nico van der Boomo >===> http://www.vanderboom.comL( >===> http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~njvdboom   ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 2001 17:34:31 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t Subject: Re: VMS<->RSTS., Message-ID: <9ejgn7$1200$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ' In article <GDtJ07.Co8@spcuna.spc.edu>,t+  Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes: 2 |> Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> writes:I |> > You will need a common carrier.  I think that release of RSTS is newdK |> > enough to support Ethernet, but I'm not sure.  Both support DDCMP, buttJ |> > if the VAX is recent you might have to go third party to find a DDCMPG |> > board for it.  Just possibly both might support asynch DECnet, butnL |> > I don't recall if RSTS ever did that.  I'd say check the SPD, but whereL |> > would you find a RSTS SPD?  (OK, if you have the PDP you might have the |> > docs.)q |> oI |>   DECnet/E supports Ethernet starting at V4.0, which IIRC was releasedy  |> concurrently with RSTS/E 9.3. |> ?J |>   There *is* Async DECnet support in the 10.1 release he's running, butI |> it is undocumented and the user interfaces to configure it weren't put H |> into the product due to the RSTS/E group being shut down (or was thatJ |> "shot down"?). But you can issue the appropriate SYS() calls to config-9 |> ure it and bring it up if you know the secret details."  C And before this wanders too far, it is not the RSTS system that hasDF the problem.  It is the VMS system.  Monitoring the network shows thatE the RSTS machine is happily trying to contact the VMS machine but theeF VMS machine never answers and also when a SET HOST is attempted on theD VMS machine, it bives up almost immediately claiming the remote nodeA is unreachable and it does this without ever transmiting a singlegD packet on the net.  And yet, Multinet is working perfectly so I know it is not an ethernet problem.   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 08:32:52 +02008 From: holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)/ Subject: Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware questionD! Message-ID: <oBR2ZgQFtBF6@ludens>0  E In article <3b0b36bb.3378759@news.mv.net>, dgordon@compaq.com writes:d > D > Anyone could have turned an InfoServer 100 into a working VAX.  ItE > was simply a VAXserver 3100 with a special drive mounting plate andl: > bezel so that it could support two CD drives in the cab. > E > The InfoServer 150 would have provided  a challenge since it had nou > floating point.u > C > The InfoServer 1000 was a VAX in the chip sense only.  There's nom > chance it would ever run VMS.$  @ And is there a chance, that a VXT would ever be able to run VMS,A or is it's hardware modified so much, there isn't any? (I _think_ 4 it has an FPU... I'm not there to check it at boot.)  SC > The boot ROM changes were trivial, mainly having to do with whichhB > register got the hardware RPB when control passed to the primary > bootstrap. >  > --Doug Gordonn > Former InfoServer Dude   Regards:			<Holi>i -- oH Holitska, Andras         holitska_a@ludens elte hu        junior managerG  ......................................................................-G  VMS Competence Center                            VMS Szakertoi KozpontmG  Eotvos Lorand University                 Eotvos Lorand TudomanyegyetemoG  Budapest, Hungary                                             BudapestnG  ======================================================================a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:13:11 GMT$ From: dgordon@compaq.com/ Subject: Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware questionh+ Message-ID: <3b0cfa36.36032818@news.mv.net>i  @ On 24 May 2001 08:32:52 +0200, holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs) wrote:     A >And is there a chance, that a VXT would ever be able to run VMS,sB >or is it's hardware modified so much, there isn't any? (I _think_5 >it has an FPU... I'm not there to check it at boot.)n  = I don't really know.  The proto VXT work was all done on monohF VAXstation 2000 systems (and boy were they slow.)  The VXT group splitE from the InfoServer group long before the VXT2000 shipped and I never0/ knew much about the internal hardware in a VXT.D   --Doug   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:03:12 +0100u  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com/ Subject: Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware questionrH Message-ID: <OFAA5BA0F4.8AD3D3C1-ON80256A56.00475B75@qedi.quintiles.com>  J More importantly (perhaps) is would one really _want_ to run VMS on a VXT?5 They weren't exactly memory rich as I recall.........@ Steve.   Doug Gordon quoted/commented : >>> A >And is there a chance, that a VXT would ever be able to run VMS,cB >or is it's hardware modified so much, there isn't any? (I _think_5 >it has an FPU... I'm not there to check it at boot.)d  = I don't really know.  The proto VXT work was all done on mono F VAXstation 2000 systems (and boy were they slow.)  The VXT group splitE from the InfoServer group long before the VXT2000 shipped and I never / knew much about the internal hardware in a VXT.a <<<    ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 18:44:14 +02008 From: holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)/ Subject: Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware questionn! Message-ID: <LlvD$DTIPqKo@ludens>n  F In article <3b0cfa36.36032818@news.mv.net>, dgordon@compaq.com writes:B > On 24 May 2001 08:32:52 +0200, holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - > Holitska Andrs) wrote:r >  > B >>And is there a chance, that a VXT would ever be able to run VMS,C >>or is it's hardware modified so much, there isn't any? (I _think_s6 >>it has an FPU... I'm not there to check it at boot.) > ? > I don't really know.  The proto VXT work was all done on mono H > VAXstation 2000 systems (and boy were they slow.)  The VXT group splitG > from the InfoServer group long before the VXT2000 shipped and I neverr1 > knew much about the internal hardware in a VXT.i  F Do you still know anyone of the VXT group? Are there any chances, thatE they are reading this newsgroup regularry? Can you point me into somee. direction, where to search, for further clues?  F Either yes or no, thanks for the answers anyway, they can proove to be usefull during my quest :]   Regards:			<Holi>s  e > --Doug   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2001 18:51:37 +02008 From: holitska_a@ludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)/ Subject: Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware questionu! Message-ID: <S+pxSrL7JLyn@ludens>e  k In article <OFAA5BA0F4.8AD3D3C1-ON80256A56.00475B75@qedi.quintiles.com>, steven.reece@quintiles.com writes: L > More importantly (perhaps) is would one really _want_ to run VMS on a VXT?7 > They weren't exactly memory rich as I recall.........n > Steve.  L I want. Others probably don't. I wanna have some fun. Others probably don't.   	:]z  K To be serious: I don't _need_ to run VMS on my VXT, but I _want_ to, to getcK some experince - I might benefit from the things I learn in the future, ande2 since I think it's a cool idea - it's worth a try.   Bye:				<Holi>  h  > Doug Gordon quoted/commented : >>>>B >>And is there a chance, that a VXT would ever be able to run VMS,C >>or is it's hardware modified so much, there isn't any? (I _think_s6 >>it has an FPU... I'm not there to check it at boot.) > ? > I don't really know.  The proto VXT work was all done on monosH > VAXstation 2000 systems (and boy were they slow.)  The VXT group splitG > from the InfoServer group long before the VXT2000 shipped and I never 1 > knew much about the internal hardware in a VXT.p > <<<n >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:03:21 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> / Subject: Re: VXT2000 hardware/firmware questiong' Message-ID: <3B0D3ED9.5B48254B@fsi.net>r   "Holi - Holitska Andrs" wrote:a > [snip]M > To be serious: I don't _need_ to run VMS on my VXT, but I _want_ to, to geteM > some experince - I might benefit from the things I learn in the future, andt4 > since I think it's a cool idea - it's worth a try.  E What I've learned most recently is that (at least in the Chicago areaiH OpenVMS market), VMS skills are nearly worthless in the current economic climate.   -- M David J. DachteraV dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.V   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:47:28 +0100s- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>n2 Subject: Re: What problem does FTSO really solve ?1 Message-ID: <3B0BBF70.6EA78EA3@BlueBubble.UK.Com>o   Michael Austin wrote:n > J > This is one of those tools I only had access to when I worked for DEC, IE > am glad to see it available on the outside.  One of the best things/C > about it was that if the transfer got interrupted (and it usually I > did...) I could restart it where it left off.  This was especially nice H > when using a dialup at 9600bps (not so long ago...)  Sometimes I wouldE > start a very large transfer overnight and if it did not complete bymF > morning, you could kill it and restart it that evening.  (very large > files...)   F It has *always* been available to outside of DEC/Compaq.  It's just it8 was never very well publicised (surprise, surprise ...).  J I recall having to track down the product manager when I was on a contractI *within* DEC.  It was not easy.  If I remember correctly, the product was F supported from DEC Annecy (France), which probably explains the "emea"I part of the URL that Andy Stoffel posted originally.  It (was/is) heavily E used within SmithKline Beecham for world-wide file transfers, and wasBB rather successful at picking up transfers that got interrupted for whatever reason.  	 Roy Omonde Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.286 ************************