1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 25 May 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 288       Contents:, Re: 1GHz Alpha EV68CB Microprocessor Exposed Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: 7.3 kits Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  RE: Affordable VMS Workstations  RE: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Backup to CD?  RE: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  Re: Backup to CD?  can't take a WIS, can you?- Compaq UK drive Alphserver customers to Intel 1 Re: Compaq UK drive Alphserver customers to Intel 1 Re: Compaq UK drive Alphserver customers to Intel / Re: ESC characters being eaten by parallel port ' Re: High Performance Server Advertising % Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT? % Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT? # Re: Humorous: Q, W2K and my surname # Re: Humorous: Q, W2K and my surname # Re: Humorous: Q, W2K and my surname  Internals manuals  Re: Internals manuals  Re: Internals manuals  Re: Internals manuals  Re: Internals manuals  Re: Internals manuals  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed  Re: Microsoft and Lockeed $ More Compaq blunders I am sad to day( Re: More Compaq blunders I am sad to day( Re: More Compaq blunders I am sad to day( Re: More Compaq blunders I am sad to day1 Netnews Stock Alert: Imporant Account Information ! Re: Plotting Program - available? " Re: POSIX threads and word tearing" Re: POSIX threads and word tearing@ Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in London+ Re: Reinstalling Backup patch on 7.2 system @ Re: Remote printing through a Cisco Router and no IP addressing.! Re: savesets not exceeding 650 MB 
 Shelved files  Re: Shelved files  Re: Shelved files  Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2 # UCX$RSHD_Startup.log file placement E Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc  Re: VMS<->RSTS Re: VMS<->RSTS6 Re: Website white paper questions (DEC/EDI and others?- Re: XP-1000 Machine check - what does it mean   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:45:58 +0100 ! From: andy thomas <andy@ic.ac.uk> 5 Subject: Re: 1GHz Alpha EV68CB Microprocessor Exposed J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0105251243260.18711-100000@anahata.ma.ic.ac.uk>  ' On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Paul DeMone wrote:   = > I don't know about AMD, they are an information black hole.   J This might be slightly off-topic but there's a wealth of information aboutI the thermal characteristics and cooling issues involved with AMD's Athlon F and Duron processors on their web site, www.amd.com. I found this very: useful when putting together a new Athlon system recently.   Andy   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:36:42 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: 7.3 kits ) Message-ID: <3B0E6DFA.429735D7@bbc.co.uk>    Lyndon Bartels wrote:   ? > We received our 7.3 kit today.... New packaging.... GOOD!!!!!  > G > Bummer about the picture of the SUN workstations on the box though...  >    aha, you noticed. :-)  --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:01:37 -0400 . From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> Subject: Re: 7.3 kits + Message-ID: <9elvk0$o0l$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   J I got my kit today.  The picture on the box is slightly different than the one on the manuals.   J On the box, it appears (to me) that the guy is using an LK-style keyboard,G and it looks like some sort of text application on the monitor (perhaps  DEC).   K On the manuals, the picture is cropped a little smaller, so that monitor is  missing.  K In both cases, as previously mentioned, the Sun logo on the workstations is K clearly visible.  Not to mention them running some type of GUI application.    So, who are the folks who:   1) Suggested this picture? 2) Let it go through unchecked?   : I suppose it's safe to say that this was a staged picture.  H I vote that next time use the VMS Mascot from the 'Ask the Wizard' page.   Ken Randell   8 Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message# news:3B0E6DFA.429735D7@bbc.co.uk...  >  >  > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > A > > We received our 7.3 kit today.... New packaging.... GOOD!!!!!  > > I > > Bummer about the picture of the SUN workstations on the box though...  > >  >  > aha, you noticed. :-)  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:08:50 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: 7.3 kits ) Message-ID: <3B0E8392.79207ED4@bbc.co.uk>    Kenneth Randell wrote:  L > I got my kit today.  The picture on the box is slightly different than the > one on the manuals.  > L > On the box, it appears (to me) that the guy is using an LK-style keyboard,I > and it looks like some sort of text application on the monitor (perhaps  > DEC).  >  >   L I'm not so sure. Its different to the new LK461 I have here. What does a SUn keyboard+ look like. Maybe we shouldn't go "there"...   M > On the manuals, the picture is cropped a little smaller, so that monitor is 
 > missing. >   O you, then, have a different set of manuals to me. The Sun monitor is visible on  the M manuals I have as well as the box. Admittedly, you have to look hard and know  what a Sun logo is.   > M > In both cases, as previously mentioned, the Sun logo on the workstations is M > clearly visible.  Not to mention them running some type of GUI application.  >  > So, who are the folks who: >  > 1) Suggested this picture?! > 2) Let it go through unchecked?  > < > I suppose it's safe to say that this was a staged picture.  I I dunno. If it was "staged" then surely this, admittedly purely cosmetic,  error would have been noticed.   >  > J > I vote that next time use the VMS Mascot from the 'Ask the Wizard' page. >   / :-). At least the CD's are for VMS not SOlaris.    > 
 > Ken Randell  > : > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message% > news:3B0E6DFA.429735D7@bbc.co.uk...  > >  > >  > > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > > C > > > We received our 7.3 kit today.... New packaging.... GOOD!!!!!  > > > K > > > Bummer about the picture of the SUN workstations on the box though...  > > >  > >  > > aha, you noticed. :-)  > > --: > > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project4 > > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.E > > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  > > E > > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > > MedAS or the BBC.  > >  > >    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:20:05 -0400 . From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> Subject: Re: 7.3 kits + Message-ID: <9em0mk$shb$1@bob.news.rcn.net>    Hello --  F > you, then, have a different set of manuals to me. The Sun monitor is visible on theJ > manuals I have as well as the box. Admittedly, you have to look hard and know > what a Sun logo is.   K What I meant to say was that the 'DEC' looking monitor on the manual covers : was missing.  I think we received the same set of manuals.   Ken Randell      >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:20:26 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: 7.3 kits 8 Message-ID: <3vtsgt8bjokcropgjjv0bvagtr21pt7g5m@4ax.com>  1 On Fri, 25 May 2001 15:36:42 +0100, Tim Llewellyn   <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:   >  >  >Lyndon Bartels wrote: > @ >> We received our 7.3 kit today.... New packaging.... GOOD!!!!! >>H >> Bummer about the picture of the SUN workstations on the box though... >> >  >aha, you noticed. :-)  B DII COE is so compatible with Sloaris that we've even emulated the	 logo :-)   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:31:31 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: 7.3 kits ) Message-ID: <3B0E88E3.D43E003A@bbc.co.uk>    Kenneth Randell wrote:  
 > Hello -- > H > > you, then, have a different set of manuals to me. The Sun monitor is > visible on theL > > manuals I have as well as the box. Admittedly, you have to look hard and > know > > what a Sun logo is.  > M > What I meant to say was that the 'DEC' looking monitor on the manual covers < > was missing.  I think we received the same set of manuals.  F Ah, OK I see now. Picture on manuals is very slightly clipped compared to one on packaging.   >  > 
 > Ken Randell  >  > >    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:46:21 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: 7.3 kits 0 Message-ID: <009FC8A1.29A39F5F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <9em0mk$shb$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com> writes:	 >Hello --  > G >> you, then, have a different set of manuals to me. The Sun monitor is  >visible on the K >> manuals I have as well as the box. Admittedly, you have to look hard and  >know  >> what a Sun logo is. > L >What I meant to say was that the 'DEC' looking monitor on the manual covers; >was missing.  I think we received the same set of manuals.  >  >Ken Randell   Ken,  1 When did you get your V7.3???  I'm still waiting.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:41:47 -0400 / From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@gsfc.nasa.gov>  Subject: Re: 7.3 kits ? Message-ID: <gurman-41E5E6.13414725052001@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>   ) In article <3B0E88E3.D43E003A@bbc.co.uk>, /  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:    > Kenneth Randell wrote: >  > > Hello -- > > J > > > you, then, have a different set of manuals to me. The Sun monitor is > > visible on theN > > > manuals I have as well as the box. Admittedly, you have to look hard and > > know > > > what a Sun logo is.  > > O > > What I meant to say was that the 'DEC' looking monitor on the manual covers > > > was missing.  I think we received the same set of manuals. > H > Ah, OK I see now. Picture on manuals is very slightly clipped compared > to one on packaging.  B     Heck, I'm just excited that Compaq cares enough (for business I reasons) to (a) brand the product in a way that identifies it as part of  F the corporate offerings, (b) shows what looks like a trading floor in C the pictures (since VMS is so strong in the back offices --- maybe  F integration with Sun workstations isn't a bad idea), and (c) included G decent CD packaging --- is there anyone who hasn't had their CD's slip   out of those cardboard folders?   B     Of course, PETA may object to the obvious slaughter of naugas  involved....                     Joe Gurman   --  C | Joseph B. Gurman, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Solar Physics > | Branch, Greenbelt MD 20771 USA / Federal employees are still@ | prohibited from holding opinions while at work. Therefore, any1 | opinions expressed herein are  somebody else's.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:52:39 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: 7.3 kits H Message-ID: <OF0D19DE78.D5854ED2-ON80256A57.00622A72@qedi.quintiles.com>  2 That would presumably make it Pachyderm Packaging? :-)    Ken Randell commented: >>> H I vote that next time use the VMS Mascot from the 'Ask the Wizard' page. <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:20:38 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations8 Message-ID: <n45sgt0h63fjjubakuai8be7oqrhehcpnl@4ax.com>  7 On Thu, 24 May 2001 11:49:37 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:    G >Mightn't Compaq's legal folks look cock-eyed at an ISV who purchases a H >set of commercial licenses, then in less than, oh, 60 days or so, comesF >forward with an offering that obviously involved several man-years of >effort?  E They might but that's better than not looking cock-eyed at no ISV not C purchasing a commercial license and not bringing forth a VMS app 60  days later!   ; The CSA program would probably be of interest here as well.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:39:50 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations< Message-ID: <GgtP6.4545$zl5.1682113@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message ( news:3B0D7FDB.245FC185@pressenter.com... > Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > >  > > > J > > > Why spend $1K on a bare system, when you can spend the same $1K on a? > > > Wintel platform, and get a completely operating computer?  > > ? > > Reliability, stability, and security might be good reasons.  > F > They're great reasons... For you, me, and most of the people reading > this newsgroup...  > I > But alas, they're not the greatest things a advertising agency wants to ( > build an ad campaign around.... (sigh) >   J On the one hand, you are right. On the other hand, note the Windoze2000 adI wherein u$oft proudly proclaims that Win2K is 13 times more reliable than , the evil virus from Hell known as Windoze98?  G But you do bring up a valid point. Generic peecee buyers don't want VMS L workstations. They don't really care about reliability. They want the lowest possible price.   E There is no way Compaq can meet the Wintel peecee price point without I drowning in red ink, and the company simply is not going to attempt to do J so. Which is why I believe petitioning Compaq to assert Wintel-Alpha price parity is a fool's errand.  L I do think a case could be made for 2x - 2.5x, particularly if enough people raised the issue with Compaq.    ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 14:09:17 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> ( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations0 Message-ID: <3b0e67bf$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  G Yes, it also then leads to statements from Rick Marcello that licensing F costs should not be made an issue.  If there is reason to adjust theseJ prices that Compaq should do so.  To some extent we have seen them do thisI on the modification of the licensing price on low end OpenVMS clustering. L So this being the case it would sound like the need to be develop a businessJ plan which could be sold by OpenVMS Marketing to the rest of Compaq on theJ reason to have lower priced licenses in the "system space", as well as the! viability of the volume of sales.   J The application developers then have to have the commitment to do the sameF thing, price the licenses on low end systems like they should be to beJ competitive.  A license for $1,000 for something which can only be used byE one person a workstation makes no sense if the same application (by a G different or even the same vendor) on a PC is licensed at $300 makes no  sense.  L Don't get me wrong,  I truly would like to see a GOOD low end system just asJ much as any of you.  It is just that the cost of licensing the developmentE environment should not be seen as a justification for the cost of the I product.  If someone is not working closely with Compaq then they may notiK know of these discounts and programs - MORE MARKETING! (Where have we heardf that before...)s   --
 Bill Pedersenb CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learnings
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B0D6D09.4B51E89E@fsi.net...  > Bill Pedersen wrote: > >k. > > Well, actually, there is another approach. > >eJ > > The developer company should sign up for the Compaq Solutions Alliance and'J > > then subscribe to the SDK service.  This includes licenses for MOST of theqF > > software for IN HOUSE DEVELOPMENT.  This is one of the benefits of workingsL > > with Compaq as well as DIGITAL, before, so as to encourage participation andS3 > > development of software for their environments.P > > H > > The hurdles to cross to be in the CSA program are minimal, they just want? > > you to have a plan to develop a product or service which isu complimentary.3 > > The costs are minimal, less than $2,000 / year.u > > A > > If a company is looking to get into the OpenVMS arena with anl applicationsJ > > or service this is the way to go.  Costs of licensing should not be an
 > > issue. > I > ...which, of course, leaves open the question of affordable OpenVMS and J > capable systems for the end user who cannot avail themselves of any such > discounted pricing.  >nH > If no one can afford the platform for your app., why develop it? Who's > gonna buy it?r >- > -- > David J. Dachterae > dba DJE Systemsg > http://www.djesys.com/ >t< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >cH > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >tB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >eH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:37:52 -0700S! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> ( Subject: RE: Affordable VMS Workstations9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMECACKAA.tom@kednos.com>-   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@mediaone.net]y$ > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:40 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms* > Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations >1 >2 >1= > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messagee* > news:3B0D7FDB.245FC185@pressenter.com... > > Terry C. Shannon wrote:o > > >  > > > >tL > > > > Why spend $1K on a bare system, when you can spend the same $1K on aA > > > > Wintel platform, and get a completely operating computer?  > > >rA > > > Reliability, stability, and security might be good reasons.w > >uH > > They're great reasons... For you, me, and most of the people reading > > this newsgroup...r > > K > > But alas, they're not the greatest things a advertising agency wants toj* > > build an ad campaign around.... (sigh) > >7 >cL > On the one hand, you are right. On the other hand, note the Windoze2000 adK > wherein u$oft proudly proclaims that Win2K is 13 times more reliable thano. > the evil virus from Hell known as Windoze98? >-I > But you do bring up a valid point. Generic peecee buyers don't want VMSeC > workstations. They don't really care about reliability. They wantH > the lowest > possible price.   I I think you are mistaken.  I believe they do care about reliability, they J just are willing to trade that off against the wealth of applications thatH are avaialble to them.  Parenthetically I can add that I have win 2k advJ server on one system and it is a vast improvement over NT, and I am no fanH of u$oft.  You are quite right, about the price point issue.  So why notA port VMS to Intel arch (even though it was obsolete before it wasKA introduced)?  Compaq's real value lies in the software not Alpha.n   >mG > There is no way Compaq can meet the Wintel peecee price point withoutlK > drowning in red ink, and the company simply is not going to attempt to doiL > so. Which is why I believe petitioning Compaq to assert Wintel-Alpha price > parity is a fool's errand. >i@ > I do think a case could be made for 2x - 2.5x, particularly if > enough peoplet > raised the issue with Compaq.t >s >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:48:20 -0500 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> ( Subject: RE: Affordable VMS WorkstationsL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF0D9D1EA3@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Lyndon Bartels [mailto:lbartels@pressenter.com]!   > Christopher Smith wrote:  < > > I believe the "faster, more reliably, more efficiently"  > would be intrinsic > > in a VMS workstation.,  F > That's true, but those qualities, may not be readily apparent to theC > average person browsing amongst the computers at the big computeryG > stores.... It has to be something flashy and exciting. "Reliability" rG > and "efficiency" have never been a great nail upon which to hang your- > marketing hat...  G I suppose you're right, and invariably people would try to pick out thekF faults in VMS and stomp all over them.  I believe it was Bill Todd (HiK Bill!) who pointed out that writing to disk at this point is slower, due tos RMS overhead.     I I'm not saying that Bill was wrong to point that out, but I'm saying thathH Sun's marketing department, or Microshaft's, or whoever you're competingL with may also hear about this from somebody and make lots of noise about it.F It will take some well-done marketing (and hopefully a fix soon! :) toL overshadow that.  Of course, that is the way the marketplace works.  Back on topic, though:  D I think this is where the applications will have to come in -- beingK reliable and efficient may not be great by itself, but doing the things (oraF some of them) that you must for work, in a more reliable and efficientH manner, may be a selling point.  It won't suffice on its own, of course.I Maybe Compaq could hire one of the peesee assembly demo groups to write anK demo in macro-64 that writes directly to the video framebuffer.  That wouldS be impressive ;)   [chop]  H > Why would it be bad to compete against one self? Spreading oneself tooC > thin. Once you've got a good market share someplace, then you can @ > expand. But when trying to break into it, it's better to have  > a specific< > target audience, and specific product to answer that need.  G Well, Compaq seems a bit thin in the peesee marketplace, already, don'taL they?  I suppose this is immaterial if we agree that they should concentrateB on the low end server market with the hypothetical workstation. :)  ? > > Again, you seem to be saying that a commitment from Compaq . > would be bad --  > > am I missing something?u   > Not bad... necessary...   E > It'd have to be a enormous, long-term commitment, and Compaq hasn't G > demonstrated the willingness to make that kind commitment to Alpha...B > (sigh)   I see your point.U  = > > AMD probably is a bad metaphor here.  I think more along e > the lines of< > > Apple/Motorola, as above.  You must admit that for some  > reason, more peoplet= > > want to pay a premium to buy their (not very compatible) r > stuff from Apple.eC > > There may be something in that; I only wish I knew what it was.b    ; > AMD is finally being accepted as a viable alternative to f > Intel.... BothD > because the hardware is comparable (even better) but also, they've8 > proven that they're going to "be around for a while."   K Well, they've been around for a while.  There was a time when people didn't-K care what kind of cpu their computer had -- up until the late days of 486'srH as I remember, as long as it was "peesee compatible."  Intel's marketingL machine somehow changed that with their "insist on genuine plastic -- accept$ no substitutes" type of campaign. :)   [chop]  G > If a $1K alpha were to have a chance at succeeding in the market, thecF > software that people want would have to be  readily available. Right( > now, that's what Linux is battling...   J .. with some success, I might add, and the strange thing is that you stillK can't get linux software on store shelves.  I think the reason it's workingyL for linux is that they bundle a lot of software with the system.  Obviously,K if an inexpensive alpha were to be available, users should also get bundledaJ software, or at least software "packages" which are available for not moreJ than $1k, say, for an O/S, networking stuff, plus some office extras.  TheJ option of having a second disk installed, with a second O/S, to add to the< pool of software that could be used, may be a good idea too.  D > We live in what I like to call, a "McDonald's Society". People areH > willing to Pay More, Get less, if they can get it quicker. If you makeF > people have to go through hoops and loops to get software, hardware,> > hamburgers,... anything, they'll take their money elsewhere.   I agree.  G > The Alpha does have Operating Systems... That's true, But OSes aren't H > the entire answer... There are lot's of companies out there developing? > layered products for the Wintel platform. And there are many a > developing+ > for Macintosh.. Compare that to Alpha... h  C I don't know the numbers, but are you sure there are more Macintosh  developers than alpha?  H > > It seems that you're arguing for Compaq not to attempt to make their4 > > platform into a home peesee type machine with a  > pointy-clicky bonehead> > > interface, office apps, stupid users, etc.  You'll get no  > argument from me  = > That's precisely what I'm arguing... I think first, Compaq a > should buildH > a $2K workstation... Get that out there. Get the tools/applications up> > to snuff, then, once they've ramped up to that degree, then  > slowly slide> > further down into the home PC arena. If you build trying to  > get into the4 > $1K arena, without the necessary support of these  > developers... It'll be > you against the world.  B True enough, and I, for one, would rather see Compaq against theirL competitors.  Not that I see them competing well enough for my liking yet -- hence this discussion :)   [snip]  G > Bottom line, the Billy Boxes are out there, and if I could do all the @ > "basic" office kind of work with my 500au, I wouldn't need my  > Billy Box.> > Once I've managed that, then I could see the alpha platform  > making their7 > way onto the desks of the help-desk, and the network a > engineers... etc...   I Yes, they are out there, and it's highly unfortunate that Billy was given K enough pull to dictate what a "basic" office app should do.  Now all "basiccJ office apps" need to have dancing paperclips, and automatically send emailG to ask somebody to have a meeting with you because you're too lazy (the.K hypothetical you, I mean.. :).  Oh -- and blow up five times in the span of L an hour, taking out all of your important data that you don't have backed upG onto one of those servers that your billybox doesn't really know how to, communicate with.a  ? > It's a pretty tough sell to TPTB (The People That Buy) that atF > Workstation is necessary in addition to, a Billy Box. Wouldn't it beF > easier to be able to say "Instead of spending $1K for the Billy Box,F > Spend $2K for this AXP machine, and do more.." As opposed to. "Let's= > spend $3K for both these machines. Use one for some stuff, e > and the others > for other..."a  K Of course, not to mention that would get rid of the billybox, which you caneD see from my previous paragraph I don't have much appreciation for...  = > Once these Alphas are out there, doing good work, at a more F > "professional" price range, people will start seeing them, and startH > demanding more applications... The AutoCAD Lite's. The Photoshops. TheH > Games... Then, people will start porting software to alpha... And thatE > will be good. Then Compaq can look into moving into a $1K arena...     Wouldn't that be nice?   Regards,   Chrise  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerb Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");y '    ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 16:09:01 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations, Message-ID: <9em02t$mjk@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  s In article <Oh9P6.3083$zl5.1182720@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:d > = >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message " >news:3B0D1B16.2C9137AD@fsi.net... >-K >> "Cheap Alpha" is not the answer. Affordable OpenVMS and Layered ProductslE >> has been and will continue to be prerequisite to any real "OpenVMSs >> Renaissance". >0H >Good point. But in the interim, if I had any intention of developing anI >OpenVMS app for commercial use, I'd use the Hobbyist License for initialqK >development, then go out and buy the commercial OS kit when I was ready tol >launch my product.  >nI >Further to the subject of affordability, I think a bundled low-end AlphaeL >(sounds like the UP1500 board again) with VMS and Apache would make a dandy >secure Web server.   G And also, ridiculous as it may seem, a secure FTP server.  The security @ model in Unix is really awful.  About the best they can do is toK chroot() (restrict the file system access so that /export/ftp is the new /)aI and then change the process from root (all or nothing process priorities) I to a nonpriv'd user.  But a chroot() process can't see the rest of the OS1I at all, so in order to have that anonymous ftp account work you also haveoF to put in /etc /bin /dev (contents varying tremendously depending uponJ which Unix you're using) under the new root.  Blech!  And chroot() is noneG too secure - there's a C program floating around that will break out ofpJ chroot() once the process regains root priv's, which on Unix, is nearly as easily done as said.  J Then there's the globbing nonsense.  For those of you not familiar with itG the ftp servers on Unix use regular expressions for handling wildcards.n' But if somebody stuffs in a query like:n  F   ls */../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/  H it will soak up an infinite amount of time while the regular expression G machinery churns.  But most VMS programs use f$search and it doesn't do I regular expressions.  Put in as many wildcards as you wan't and it won't   blow up.  Examples:n  J ftp> dir */../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/../*/./*/. 200 Port 8.220 at Host 192.168.1.250 accepted./ 550 %RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax errore ftp> dir [*]. 200 Port 8.221 at Host 192.168.1.250 accepted.C 550 %RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violationi   ftp>dir [.*]*.* ! (lists one level down, all files)o  K The simple widlcards are much quicker, and make it much safer, to set up an-G FTP server on VMS than it is on any Unix.  (In fact, using nonMicrosoftl= software, it's pretty easy to set up a safe one on WNT too.) M  J But while VMS now has Apache (not that I've tried it) that's only half theI battle towards becoming a viable Web/Internet platform.  You only need todG look for about 10 minutes before you find that you also need Perl, PHP,oK OpenSSH, MySql, PostgreSql, Python, Java, zlib, pnglib, xpmlib, etc., etc.,tG ad nauseum. Some of these exist on VMS now, but you'd have to run on an K ODS5 volume to stand any chance of having most of the off the shelf scriptsu% work. (blah.foo.blat is too common.) r  K Much as I detest the security on Solaris, I've got to say that it's really "F been a pleasure to be able to grab 20 or so packages and install them E without a hiccup, without once having to modify the code.  And CompaqeJ could do well to just outright copy www.sunfreeware.com.  It's pretty muchG one stop shopping for most of the freeware tools, and all it takes is awK download from the web page, pkgadd -d whatever, and then in most cases, runhI it. (Or configure and run.)  In any case, completely painless, everythinge precompiled and ready to go.  I Let's see, if Compaq puts together a committee this morning to study thatcB idea they'll probably have a site like that on line by 2005.  :-(    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 16:58:18 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations, Message-ID: <9em2va$mjk@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  s In article <GgtP6.4545$zl5.1682113@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > F >There is no way Compaq can meet the Wintel peecee price point withoutJ >drowning in red ink, and the company simply is not going to attempt to doK >so. Which is why I believe petitioning Compaq to assert Wintel-Alpha price  >parity is a fool's errand.  >   K At this point in time - probably true.  "Too little, too late."  Not a veryrI appealing mantra, but the only one we've heard in the last 10 years from   Digipaq.  E But at while it might be foolish, it would at least represent action.nK Compaq's current slow as a tortoise movements will likely seem horrificallyeK foolhardy in 4 years when AMD or Intel has won a decisive victory in the 64eH bit space and 90% of the whole computer market (including especially theI high performance market) is running on one or the other family of chips.  K That is, having failed to position the Alpha preemptively to keep Intel and I AMD out of the 64 bit market, and having failed to position their OS's toyF be able to capitalize on the economies of scale that would accrue fromJ being able to run on either AMD or Intel's 64 bit chips, Compaq could wellI find itself with a high cost, behind the curve processor, and no productseG of their own to run on the new platforms.  (Other than Compaq fortran.)aH Once again Compaq will be just another PC vendor selling somebody else'sI CPU and somebody else's OS - and watching all the profits go to somebody : else.0  J By the way, my money's on AMD.  The real x86 backwards compatibility builtL into the Hammer should let it run existing apps while simultaneously adding G new 64 bit ones.  Conversely, the Itanic's 32 bit performance is so badeH that that strategy won't work there.  And since software availability isI half the battle, the upgrade path to Hammer should be easier than the one" to Itanic. e   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 09:28:03 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162 (Wayne Sewell)l( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations. Message-ID: <J9T6eTzh6gyG@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  _ In article <3B0D6B88.3592EDD0@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:n > D.Webb wrote:  >  >> No.P >> You don't build a $1K VMS workstation you build a $1K Alpha box which can run >> VMS and LINUX !!  >> )@ >> Your mass market is a 64 bit LINUX box with better compilers.A >> The competition between Windows and Linux is already occuring.KJ >> Compaq needs to have a competitively priced Alpha box for running LinuxQ >> otherwise Linux will eventually end up running 99.9999 % of the time on Intel.eR >> Compaq must not repeat the same old Digital mistakes and think that because theQ >> Alpha chip is 64bit and has better floating point performance that Linux Alphai+ >> workstations can be priced at a premium.t >> aP >> If Compaq produces such a box then it makes sense to also let it run VMS (and
 >> Tru64). >> v
 >> David Webbe >> VMS and Unix team leadera >> CCSSr >> Middlesex University  >  > H > If Compaq builds any type of computer in the $1K range... It *WILL* beD > compared to $1K Wintel platforms... That is inevitable. One of theF > battles Linux is battling is trying to convince people to spend moreD > money above and beyond what they paid for the hardware for the OS. > F > Why spend $1K on a bare system, when you can spend the same $1K on a; > Wintel platform, and get a completely operating computer?r  O Completely operating???   A billybox?  I have no love of linux, but at least ite# doesn't go down every five minutes.        -- oO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxs: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)OO =============================================================================== K Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!!eO    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!b   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:08:14 GMTb4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations< Message-ID: <2kwP6.4582$zl5.1765442@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  ? "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messageu& news:9em2va$mjk@gap.cco.caltech.edu...H > In article <GgtP6.4545$zl5.1682113@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C., Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > >tH > >There is no way Compaq can meet the Wintel peecee price point withoutL > >drowning in red ink, and the company simply is not going to attempt to doG > >so. Which is why I believe petitioning Compaq to assert Wintel-Alphai pricea > >parity is a fool's errand.d > >  >eH > At this point in time - probably true.  "Too little, too late."  Not a veryJ > appealing mantra, but the only one we've heard in the last 10 years from
 > Digipaq.  G The initial Alpha game plan (per circa-1990 Secret Documents) was to gotI head-to-head with Intel. It sounded like a good plan at the time, but onedJ element of the equation was conspicuous in its absence: OS support. Doh...   >dG > But at while it might be foolish, it would at least represent action.   K Compaq is in way serious cost-cutting mode. An expensive effort to create arA new product for a relatively narrow market (remember, no personalf6 productivity apps on VMS) would not go over very well.  @ > Compaq's current slow as a tortoise movements will likely seem horrificallyJ > foolhardy in 4 years when AMD or Intel has won a decisive victory in the 64J > bit space and 90% of the whole computer market (including especially theJ > high performance market) is running on one or the other family of chips.  J "A DECade of Alpha Marketing Malfeasance" may well be the title of my nextK magnum opus. More missed opportunities and mismanagement than you can shake  a stick at.w  L > By the way, my money's on AMD.  The real x86 backwards compatibility builtF > into the Hammer should let it run existing apps while simultaneously addingI > new 64 bit ones.  Conversely, the Itanic's 32 bit performance is so bad J > that that strategy won't work there.  And since software availability isK > half the battle, the upgrade path to Hammer should be easier than the one  > to Itanic.  L Amen. And just think, if Itanium slipped (yet another) year, and Hammer cameH out as per original schedule, plenty of ISVs might see the light and use4 Hammer vice Itanium as their 64b reference platform.  I The Hammer value proposition seems sound to me. Which could be one reasonbL why Intel itself is doing 64b extensions to IA32 in one of their skunk works out in Oregon.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:13:42 +0100o  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: Backup to CD?H Message-ID: <OF1A82D03E.EE98E555-ON80256A57.003630E0@qedi.quintiles.com>  G The problems that I've normally seen with increased tape drive capacity"H (whether compressed or not) is that the system supplying the data to theH backup device can't keep up so you end up with tape scrubbing, the drive  not spooling and slower backups.D The issue seems (to me, at least) to be less noticable with hardwareJ compression (i.e. on the tape drive itself) than with software compression? (using /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION).  This doesn't help with TL892aJ minilibraries though where you can't save the hardware compression settingK on the drives once you've exited from that part of the menu on the front of  the library.   Steve.   Carl Perkins wrote:  >>>eE That should not be the case. The tape should always move by the headsaD at the same speed writing the same number of bits on any given pieceE of tape (barring data starvation from upstream locations), but in theTC compressed case those bits are the post-compression bits so you getdE more real data on the same amount of tape. Thus you should get double 7 the data transfer rate if you get 2:1 data compression."  C The limiting factor ought to be the write speed to the media. It ise@ compressed before it hits the media. Thus the compression factorB affects the data transfer rate. Or, at least, it should. I supposeD they could have designed it to slow down the tape as the compressionD ratio increases to keep the transfer speed constant - but that would4 be stupid. (Which doesn't mean they didn't do it...) <<<f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:11:32 -0400.+ From: "O'Connor, Marty" <MOConnor@DVFS.COM>t Subject: RE: Backup to CD?F Message-ID: <85C741006DA1D0119CE00000F8752CE305004110@msexc1.dvfs.com>  I Only one tape for one backup. A production environment has to think aboutoL daily, weekly, monthly and yearly tapes. This can mount up to a lot of tapes required for each disk..   Martyg    D The number of tapes is one. Probably. At least, it is if you get oneD of the new SDLT drives which can pack 110/220 GB on a tape. They are   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:52:26 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: Backup to CD?8 Message-ID: <amksgtc6g9njfti22aplbc0vt91tb3ffu1@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 25 May 2001 11:13:42 +0100, steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:g   >  > H >The problems that I've normally seen with increased tape drive capacityI >(whether compressed or not) is that the system supplying the data to theeI >backup device can't keep up so you end up with tape scrubbing, the drivea! >not spooling and slower backups. E >The issue seems (to me, at least) to be less noticable with hardware K >compression (i.e. on the tape drive itself) than with software compression @ >(using /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION).  This doesn't help with TL892   Steve,  E Not sure what you mean here as /media=compact just tells the drive toaF turn on hardware compression. Unless you are running 7.2-1 without theC appropriate patches in which case compression is a bit hit and misseB unless you use exactly a specific sequence of inits and mounts andE don't use callable backup. f you are seeing different results between:D enabling compression on the drive and /media=compact I think you may be in need of an ECO kit.t  B For reference we did have serious problems with 7.2-1 talking to aE TL89x library relating to compression problems prior to various patch B kits. BACKUP, FIBRE_SCSI and MOUNT ECO kits for 7.2-1 can all come into play here from memory.l  > We sustain around 10MB/sec to the drive with /media=compact on% overnight backups (approx 36 Gig/hr).2  K >minilibraries though where you can't save the hardware compression settingoL >on the drives once you've exited from that part of the menu on the front of
 >the library., >t >Steve.o >h >Carl Perkins wrote: >>>>F >That should not be the case. The tape should always move by the headsE >at the same speed writing the same number of bits on any given piecekF >of tape (barring data starvation from upstream locations), but in theD >compressed case those bits are the post-compression bits so you getF >more real data on the same amount of tape. Thus you should get double8 >the data transfer rate if you get 2:1 data compression. > D >The limiting factor ought to be the write speed to the media. It isA >compressed before it hits the media. Thus the compression factorLC >affects the data transfer rate. Or, at least, it should. I supposekE >they could have designed it to slow down the tape as the compressionyE >ratio increases to keep the transfer speed constant - but that would 5 >be stupid. (Which doesn't mean they didn't do it...)9 ><<<   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:40:44 -0400,2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Backup to CD?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2505011040450001@user-2iveb5h.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <OF1A82D03E.EE98E555-ON80256A57.003630E0@qedi.quintiles.com>,! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:i  I > The problems that I've normally seen with increased tape drive capacitynJ > (whether compressed or not) is that the system supplying the data to theJ > backup device can't keep up so you end up with tape scrubbing, the drive" > not spooling and slower backups.F > The issue seems (to me, at least) to be less noticable with hardwareL > compression (i.e. on the tape drive itself) than with software compression$ > (using /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION).   H On the DLT 4000 drives we use, /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION simply tells theH drive to enable hardware compression.  This is the same as fiddling withG the button on the front of the drive. I don't know of any VMS utilitiesc1 that do software compression.  What am I missing?a   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:39:12 +0100f- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>y Subject: Re: Backup to CD?) Message-ID: <3B0E6E90.8522509E@bbc.co.uk>s   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  E >  Careful, there! Remember: compression in this case is local to the)I > drive! So, that 11MB/sec remains 11MB/sec, regardless of compression oro > not. >o  M Hmmm, havn't checked that myself, but it does make sense to me that the drivenO will accept more data from the source if it is compressing the data rather thanw. not compressing it. However, you may be right.   >n+ > Now - if there was some way to pipe this:t >s6 > BACKUP/IMAGE -> {,G,B}ZIP -> (magtape by some magic) >*H > Of course, that would make the verification pass somewhat challenging! >eH > Wonder if there's a way to add the ZIP API to VMS BACKUP ... and couldE > we convince Andy Goldstein's boss(es) to let him have a go at it...l >r  B Hmmm, freeware code in VMS backup. I think I'll leave that myself.   regards.   >/ > -- > David J. Dachtera* > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >2< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o >1H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >>B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >sH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:55:12 +0100r- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Backup to CD?) Message-ID: <3B0E7250.5D66D2A0@bbc.co.uk>u  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:a  I > The problems that I've normally seen with increased tape drive capacity J > (whether compressed or not) is that the system supplying the data to theJ > backup device can't keep up so you end up with tape scrubbing, the drive" > not spooling and slower backups.F > The issue seems (to me, at least) to be less noticable with hardwareL > compression (i.e. on the tape drive itself) than with software compressionA > (using /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION).  This doesn't help with TL892eL > minilibraries though where you can't save the hardware compression settingM > on the drives once you've exited from that part of the menu on the front ofo > the library. >i  H Now you got me confused, Steve. I though one enabled hardware compressedJ byb initializing the tape /MEDIA=COMPACT. Are you saying I have to use the front + panel button to get "hardware" compression?s --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of* MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:01:59 -0400a+ From: John Eisenschmidt <jeisensc@aaas.org>u Subject: Re: Backup to CD?# Message-ID: <sb0e3bc4.032@aaas.org>a  H As I understand it (as it was explained to me) /MEDIA_FORMAT=3DCOMPACT =. turns on the tape drives hardware compression.  C I could be wrong, but that's what I was told. And yes, it's faster.p  F >>> Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 05/25/2001 10:55:12 AM >>>    ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:   I > The problems that I've normally seen with increased tape drive capacity'J > (whether compressed or not) is that the system supplying the data to theJ > backup device can't keep up so you end up with tape scrubbing, the drive" > not spooling and slower backups.F > The issue seems (to me, at least) to be less noticable with hardwareL > compression (i.e. on the tape drive itself) than with software compressio= ndC > (using /MEDIA_FORMAT=3DCOMPACTION).  This doesn't help with TL892 F > minilibraries though where you can't save the hardware compression = settingrL > on the drives once you've exited from that part of the menu on the front = of > the library. >n  H Now you got me confused, Steve. I though one enabled hardware compressedJ byb initializing the tape /MEDIA=3DCOMPACT. Are you saying I have to use = thes frontl+ panel button to get "hardware" compression?n --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.D Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk=20  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:35:08 -0500o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Backup to CD?' Message-ID: <3B0E7BAC.B96A1D70@fsi.net>t   Carl Perkins wrote:h > 7 > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes... I > }> The number of tapes is one. Probably. At least, it is if you get one.I > }> of the new SDLT drives which can pack 110/220 GB on a tape. They areHH > }> also rated at 11 MB/sec transfer rate - I don't know if that is theL > }> native rate or the rate you get with the compression at an assumed 2:1,N > }> but I would hope that it is the native rate so with compression it shouldL > }> go up to 22 MB/sec. (At 11 MB/sec it would take a smidge over 4.5 hoursM > }> to do a backup of 180GB without a verification pass and without counting J > }> a backup date recording pass either. At 22MB/sec it would, of course, > }> take only half that long.)o > } E > }Careful, there! Remember: compression in this case is local to thepJ > }drive! So, that 11MB/sec remains 11MB/sec, regardless of compression or > }not.U > }David J. Dachtera > G > That should not be the case. The tape should always move by the heads>F > at the same speed writing the same number of bits on any given pieceG > of tape (barring data starvation from upstream locations), but in the E > compressed case those bits are the post-compression bits so you get G > more real data on the same amount of tape. Thus you should get doublei9 > the data transfer rate if you get 2:1 data compression.i  % How does this speed up the interface?o  e? > The limiting factor ought to be the write speed to the media.T  ? There's one more before that - the interface to the data path. r  G I know newer SCSI paths can achieve as much as 40MB/sec., but does this 0 guarantee that the device can keep up with that?   -- l David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:52:26 GMT== From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) # Subject: can't take a WIS, can you?-0 Message-ID: <009FC880.7C34514B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  I I use WIS to submit service requests and communicate problems/issues with K Compaq.  For over a day now, I cannot seem to access any of my present ser-=J vice requests.  One I submitted is marked as "Solution Found" but I cannotI access the request.  The browser just sits there and sits there "Waiting a
 for reply..."   I If there are Compaq folks reading this newsgroup, can you please give ther3 folks responsible for WIS a nudge and wake them up?"   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMw            7O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:15:01 +0100P% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n6 Subject: Compaq UK drive Alphserver customers to Intel8 Message-ID: <84fsgt8bojj0u14mhbb0ilicbr4irmf073@4ax.com>  F A couple of days ago I contacted Compaq UK and asked for copies of allE the latest Alphaserver and Storageworks literature to hand out to ournE Norwegian IT management visiting our UK datacentre next week to learndD about Alpha technology and how they can make use of it. I explicitlyD stated that I did not want PC literature and said that a substantial sale might result.  A Today I received the "here is the information you requested." TenrF brochures on Proliant, iPAQ, Armada and TaskSmart. Nothing on Alpha orE Storagworks at all. And Compaq management wonder why they get so muchnE flak from us. Tell you what. I'll make them a deal. They *prove* thatiF they are seriously behind Alpha and I'll give them praise. Continue toE prove they or their marketing subordinates are incompetent and I willaE continue to get angry at them. Can't say much fairer than that can I?   D All of the good work by Marcello et al. continues to be countered byA Compaq's generic sales organization. Compaq's actions continue to E speak volumes. Even if you beg for Alpha literature you get something  else.w   Grrr....  E I have contacted various Compaq folk both local and US so we will see 
 what happens.t   Alan -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 14:28:08 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)s: Subject: Re: Compaq UK drive Alphserver customers to Intel, Message-ID: <9elq5o$25po$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <84fsgt8bojj0u14mhbb0ilicbr4irmf073@4ax.com>,(  Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: |>  I |> A couple of days ago I contacted Compaq UK and asked for copies of all H |> the latest Alphaserver and Storageworks literature to hand out to ourH |> Norwegian IT management visiting our UK datacentre next week to learnG |> about Alpha technology and how they can make use of it. I explicitlyeG |> stated that I did not want PC literature and said that a substantialg |> sale might result.e |> mD |> Today I received the "here is the information you requested." TenI |> brochures on Proliant, iPAQ, Armada and TaskSmart. Nothing on Alpha ori |> Storagworks at all.    C This is not the first time we have heard this here.  Thus my recent-C comments about there being no Cadilac, Pontiac, Buick or Oldsmobilee salesmen.  Only Chevy.   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:50:38 -0400a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger): Subject: Re: Compaq UK drive Alphserver customers to IntelL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2505011050400001@user-2iveb5h.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <84fsgt8bojj0u14mhbb0ilicbr4irmf073@4ax.com>, Alan Greigu <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:r    n
 > Grrr.... > G > I have contacted various Compaq folk both local and US so we will seeh > what happens.v    H Thank you.  I hope you took down the names of the bozos who sent you theG wrong stuff, and passed them along to higher powers.  There's no excuseb for incompetence.e   -- t Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:00:42 -0700i0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>8 Subject: Re: ESC characters being eaten by parallel port# Message-ID: <3B0E739A.40A5@ups.edu>   C You need to put a wrapper around your escape sequences. The wrapper H I use is DCS ... ST. This turns out to be <ESC>P (your seq here) <ESC>\.H This works flawlessly with all kinds of printers. I use it with HP laserH printers, Okidata and Brother impact printers, plus B1000 and B2000 line	 printers.r   Bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 02:17:28 -0700 (PDT).$ From: nclews <nclews at csc dot com>0 Subject: Re: High Performance Server Advertising1 Message-ID: <633.990604478048@iw0.mailusenet.com>:   In reply to:M http://www.etin.com/article/Article.jsp?messageID=20083868&folder=comp.os.vmsn   What is "fast latency" ? !  " Quote: "offers very fast latency "  W Kinda reminds me of those strange operating (de)structions we get with certain importedd+ goods translated from certain languages :-)   ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comS .  ----I Posted via http://www.etin.com - the FREE public USENET portal on the Web-F Complete SEARCHING, BROWSING, and POSTING of text and BINARY messages!   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:04:36 +0100 (GDT)f) From: Andy Harper <Andy.Harper@kcl.ac.uk>5. Subject: Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT?: Message-ID: <SIMEON.10105251136.E@kings-ut-srv1.kcl.ac.uk>  - On Thu, 24 May 2001 10:36:02 +0800 Netsurfer o, <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com> wrote:   > I am using OpenVMS 7.1.i > F > Presently I am writing script to FTP files to our remote UNIX server > using FTP scripts. >  > MY_FTP.COM > ========== > * > $ FTP remote_host /USERNAME="johndoe"  -* >                   /PASSWORD="password" -5 >                   /INPUT=SYS$MANAGER:FTP_SCRIPT.TXTC >  > SYS$MANAGER:FTP_SCRIPT.TXT > ========================== >  > CD \data_dumpi > SET TYPE ASCII > MPUT blablabla.txt > BYEd >  > E > Is there a way to simply all the above into within the batch script  > without script files?  > + > Is there a UNIX .netrc clone for OpenVMS?sC > Or the scripting using ">>EOF" syntax which is valid for UNIX FTPf > scripting???  >   You might to investigate kermit 7.1 which has recently been < released (well actually it's been released as a beta) - see C http://kermit.columbia.edu. This contains proper FTP support which LC can be used in conjunction with all of Kermit's scripting features.    Regards,   ----------------------! Andy Harper B.Sc., M.B.C.S, C.Engp Systems and Mail Manager Kings College London   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 16:13:02 GMT0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz). Subject: Re: How to script FTP without /INPUT?4 Message-ID: <9em0ae$ir$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>  : In article <SIMEON.10105251136.E@kings-ut-srv1.kcl.ac.uk>,+ Andy Harper  <Andy.Harper@kcl.ac.uk> wrote:a : ....- : > Is there a UNIX .netrc clone for OpenVMS?aE : > Or the scripting using ">>EOF" syntax which is valid for UNIX FTP( : > scripting??? : @ :   You might to investigate kermit 7.1 which has recently been > : released (well actually it's been released as a beta) - see E : http://kermit.columbia.edu. This contains proper FTP support which rE : can be used in conjunction with all of Kermit's scripting features.  : F But unfortunately it's only for UNIX.  To make this work for VMS wouldE require a VMS programmer with expertise in C, RMS, VMS TCP/IP stacks, C and VMS FTP protocol extensions (I am not that person).  I'm hopingwE somebody will be able to add *true* VMS support to C-Kermit's new FTPp@ module soon ("true" meaning RMS-aware, able to handle VMS-to-VMSH transfers for all file types).  If/when there is any news, I'll post it.  8 For more information about the C-Kermit FTP client, see:  /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftpclient.htmlu   - Franke   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 14:10:56 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)7, Subject: Re: Humorous: Q, W2K and my surname, Message-ID: <9elp5g$25po$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  0 In article <009FC7F8.0BE18C2C@SendSpamHere.ORG>,@  system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:O |> A few weeks ago I purchased a kit for a large wooden backyard swing and playdO |> fort.  A nice kit and it assembled very nicely.  One piece -- a re-enforcingbN |> gusset plate -- was missing and I've been dealing with trying to obtain oneP |> from the company.  I've called several times -- and again just moments ago --O |> and their computer crashes when they enter my name.  It happened again todaydO |> when trying to find out if my request has yet been processed.  This woman ontP |> the phone told me they are Q PeeCees running Weendoze 2000.  Is it any wonderO |> I've been waiting for two+ weeks for a simple replacement part?  Today, this-P |> woman filled out a paper-and-pencil request for the part to have it expressedN |> to me.  Let's see if that happens.  If it does, the trusted old pad and pen |> are superior to M$. |> dN |> If the length of my last name is too much data for a W2K system to process,O |> I'd have to conclude that VMS, unix, et al, have nothing to fear in the reals |> enterprise processing realm.n  @ Don't confuse a bad application with (the many) OS shortcomings.  H We use OpenVMS and a commercial package for all our administration here.I Apparently the system can not deal with an entry for a student that lackseI a first name.  Thus we have a grad student here who's official first name 	 is "Mr." i  H Of course, this is more a social problem than a computer problem.  It isH obvious that whoever wrote the application assumed everyone in the world4 had a name in the ussual anglo/ammerican convention.  H Reminds me of a guy I served with in the Army.  The only man I ever knewH who had his first name on his nametags rather than his last.  Seems evenH the Army didn't know that they don't list surname/familyname in the same order everywhere in the world.   bill   -- wJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:38:04 -0400y2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger), Subject: Re: Humorous: Q, W2K and my surnameL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2505011038040001@user-2iveb5h.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <9elp5g$25po$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote:    B > Don't confuse a bad application with (the many) OS shortcomings. > J > We use OpenVMS and a commercial package for all our administration here.K > Apparently the system can not deal with an entry for a student that lackseK > a first name.  Thus we have a grad student here who's official first namet > is "Mr." r > J > Of course, this is more a social problem than a computer problem.  It isJ > obvious that whoever wrote the application assumed everyone in the world6 > had a name in the ussual anglo/ammerican convention. > J > Reminds me of a guy I served with in the Army.  The only man I ever knewJ > who had his first name on his nametags rather than his last.  Seems evenJ > the Army didn't know that they don't list surname/familyname in the same  > order everywhere in the world.  I Nothing so exotic is needed to confuse bureaucrats and their software.  I E happen to use my middle name, not my first name, for everyday stuff. dG "Official" forms usually want first name, middle initial, last name.  IaD put my first initial, my whole middle name (even if they don't leaveI enough space on the form) and my last name.  Then the bureaucrats usuallytG reverse my first and middle names, or use my middle name for both firstHJ and middle.  Many variations are possible.  Many trees have been killed to8 send duplicate junk mail to all permutations of my name.   -- - Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com:   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:45:20 GMTB= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)r, Subject: Re: Humorous: Q, W2K and my surname0 Message-ID: <009FC890.4240B78F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <9elp5g$25po$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:1 >In article <009FC7F8.0BE18C2C@SendSpamHere.ORG>,1A > system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:tP >|> A few weeks ago I purchased a kit for a large wooden backyard swing and playP >|> fort.  A nice kit and it assembled very nicely.  One piece -- a re-enforcingO >|> gusset plate -- was missing and I've been dealing with trying to obtain one.Q >|> from the company.  I've called several times -- and again just moments ago --sP >|> and their computer crashes when they enter my name.  It happened again todayP >|> when trying to find out if my request has yet been processed.  This woman onQ >|> the phone told me they are Q PeeCees running Weendoze 2000.  Is it any wonderuP >|> I've been waiting for two+ weeks for a simple replacement part?  Today, thisQ >|> woman filled out a paper-and-pencil request for the part to have it expressediO >|> to me.  Let's see if that happens.  If it does, the trusted old pad and pene >|> are superior to M$." >|> O >|> If the length of my last name is too much data for a W2K system to process,eP >|> I'd have to conclude that VMS, unix, et al, have nothing to fear in the real  >|> enterprise processing realm. >oA >Don't confuse a bad application with (the many) OS shortcomings.t  G I'll admit the application has its problems but if it takes out the O/S0F there are serious shortcomings within that O/S.  If W2K is the best M$E has produced to date, that is surely a poor accolade for M$!  CertainiF apps can take out an O/S but a simple customer database application is not one of them.    I >We use OpenVMS and a commercial package for all our administration here.TJ >Apparently the system can not deal with an entry for a student that lacksJ >a first name.  Thus we have a grad student here who's official first name
 >is "Mr."   J BUT!!!  Does an error within the application causing it to crash also take out the *entire* system???   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM5            tO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.b   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 14:54:37 GMT From: a@b.cy Subject: Internals manuals* Message-ID: <9elrnd$2pl$1@news.netmar.com>   Just a quickie,   G Does anybody know of a bookseller in the UK where I can get hold of theoE full set (3?) of internals manuals. I went into a Waterstones and the.G nice chap said that all titles were now out of print. Any ideas greatlyh appreciated.   Ade           O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  ----- M   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupseI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsaL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:54:19 +0000e  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com Subject: Re: Internals manuals/ Message-ID: <00256A57.005CE2AF.00@quegw01.btyp>   L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    L I would try Foyles, they usually have a number of VMS books, and will locate others for you.l   Steve So         a@b.c on 05/25/2001 02:54:37 PMe    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)i( From:      a@b.c, 25 May 2001, 2:54 p.m.   Internals manualsg             Just a quickie,s  G Does anybody know of a bookseller in the UK where I can get hold of theaE full set (3?) of internals manuals. I went into a Waterstones and therG nice chap said that all titles were now out of print. Any ideas greatlye appreciated.   Adeu          O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----sM   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups I    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsrL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:37:40 +0100l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>d Subject: Re: Internals manuals8 Message-ID: <ttusgtopkpmnduhl46q488cardks86oqbi@4ax.com>  ) On 25 May 2001 14:54:37 GMT, a@b.c wrote:t   >u >r >Just a quickie, >(H >Does anybody know of a bookseller in the UK where I can get hold of theF >full set (3?) of internals manuals. I went into a Waterstones and theH >nice chap said that all titles were now out of print. Any ideas greatly
 >appreciated.j  F www.bh.com/.digitalpress follow European link. I think at least one of@ the books i currently listed but the web site seems to be having# difficulty with searches right now.f   >Ade >a >t >p >e >rP > -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----N >  http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsJ >   NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsM >made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:50:54 -0300t) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bro Subject: Re: Internals manualsL Message-ID: <OF75297369.FF04D5EB-ON03256A57.005C7E03@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   Just a question  ?  < Is possible to buy the OpenVMS printed manuals from Compaq ?   Regardsi   FC         a@b.c em 25/05/2001 11:54:37   Favor responder a a@b.cn             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt       Assunto: Internals manuals         Just a quickie,   G Does anybody know of a bookseller in the UK where I can get hold of the E full set (3?) of internals manuals. I went into a Waterstones and therG nice chap said that all titles were now out of print. Any ideas greatlya appreciated.   Ade           H  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web -----aF   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts9: made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net3   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:03:13 +0100d  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: Internals manualsH Message-ID: <OF53CB01ED.EA674823-ON80256A57.005DA103@qedi.quintiles.com>  D I would expect so.  If you drop me an e-mail or send one back to theI newsgroup with a meaningful address in it then I may be able to point youa in the right direction.C Steve.   a@b.c (Ade) wrote: >>>t Just a quickie,h  G Does anybody know of a bookseller in the UK where I can get hold of theeE full set (3?) of internals manuals. I went into a Waterstones and thenG nice chap said that all titles were now out of print. Any ideas greatly  appreciated.   Ade  <<<    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:49:43 +0100b  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: Internals manualsH Message-ID: <OF64C46B3B.5C6A4DF5-ON80256A57.0060E505@qedi.quintiles.com>  
 Certainly is.h Part number QA-001AA-GZ.7.3eK Reference : http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6620/6620pro_009.htmls  8 Last time I saw a price they were around 1100 pounds GB. Steve.   Fabio asked: >>>  Just a question  ?  < Is possible to buy the OpenVMS printed manuals from Compaq ? <<<A   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 06:53:05 GMTe From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed& Message-ID: <3B0E014B.5998C41@home.nl>  Q Letting W2k in control of nuclear weapon systems gives a whole new meaning to theo phrase "Blue Screen Of Death".   Jerry Leslie wrote:   $ > Koloth (koloth@tmisnet.com) wrote:D > : From what I heard the NT system was running a program that had aE > : divide-by-zero error.  This munged the NT system and disabled theoL > : propulsion system for the entire ship.  The Admiral who's job was on theO > : line stood up in front of reporters and said it was bad programming and not@I > : NT.  This was the Admiral that made the Navy NT directive.  Of course-I > : anyone who knew anything about  what good OS should have done startedeA > : moaning.  The Admiral was have right.  It was bad programming  >C' > Here's the story on the USS Yorktown:a >s8 >  http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.htmlN >  Scientific American: Technology and Business: Rough Sailing For Smart Ships > 7 >  http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htm < >  Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water >o> > The story on the decision to run a nuclear carrier with W2K: >60 >  http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html >  Navy carrier to run Win 2000r >l > --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:45:38 -0500v1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed' Message-ID: <3B0E7E22.9069A234@fsi.net>f  # "HM2(FMF/SW) Neill Thornton" wrote:N > M > I hate to ruin all of your all's expecations (and I hate NT/2000 as much as/D > the next man), but I just completed a 6 month deployment on a NavyE > amphibious assault ship (LHA-1 Class), which runs Windows NT almost-M > exclusively for some rather critical functions (damage control, navigation,y% > etc.) and we had *zero* problems.  c  ? Quoting the Capt. Bart Mancuso character from "The Hunt for Red25 October": "Are you willing to bet your life on that?"    -- 2 David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:48:43 +0100a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>y" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed) Message-ID: <3B0E7EDB.13230D6A@bbc.co.uk>s   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  % > "HM2(FMF/SW) Neill Thornton" wrote:O > >nO > > I hate to ruin all of your all's expecations (and I hate NT/2000 as much asrF > > the next man), but I just completed a 6 month deployment on a NavyG > > amphibious assault ship (LHA-1 Class), which runs Windows NT almostFO > > exclusively for some rather critical functions (damage control, navigation,t% > > etc.) and we had *zero* problems.-   > A > Quoting the Capt. Bart Mancuso character from "The Hunt for Red 7 > October": "Are you willing to bet your life on that?"  >M  Q yeah, wasn't the problem on the pilot system a zero error, divide by zero that isH :-)    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.i   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 09:35:11 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162 (Wayne Sewell)e" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed. Message-ID: <lkBDOssR$BAQ@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  S In article <9ekh5u$mhq$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:t$ > Koloth (koloth@tmisnet.com) wrote:D > : From what I heard the NT system was running a program that had aE > : divide-by-zero error.  This munged the NT system and disabled thetL > : propulsion system for the entire ship.  The Admiral who's job was on theO > : line stood up in front of reporters and said it was bad programming and notoI > : NT.  This was the Admiral that made the Navy NT directive.  Of courseiI > : anyone who knew anything about  what good OS should have done startednA > : moaning.  The Admiral was have right.  It was bad programminge > ' > Here's the story on the USS Yorktown:- > 8 >  http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.htmlN >  Scientific American: Technology and Business: Rough Sailing For Smart Ships > 7 >  http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htmn< >  Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water > > > The story on the decision to run a nuclear carrier with W2K: > 0 >  http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html >  Navy carrier to run Win 2000a  N And a future headline will be: "Navy Carrier Launches Cruise Missle at Tehran, Wipes out Chicago".n     -- wO ===============================================================================aM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx.: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)rO ===============================================================================oK Hotel guy (after bed demolition):  That bed goes back to Henry the eighth!!aO    Curly: That's nothin'!  We had a bed go back to Sears and Roebuck the fifth!    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:31:19 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Microsoft and Lockeed< Message-ID: <HFwP6.3699$QP6.3159506@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  L "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.xxx.310887.killspam.0162> wrote in message > >c@ > > The story on the decision to run a nuclear carrier with W2K: > >a2 > >  http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html! > >  Navy carrier to run Win 2000e >yH > And a future headline will be: "Navy Carrier Launches Cruise Missle at Tehran,f > Wipes out Chicago"." >"  I Given the relative ease with which ChiCom hackers can have their way withsG systems here in the USA, I have a hunch that if push came to shove, thedE Windoze-Inside battle management system would be down well before the ! skipper could say "weapons free."h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:45:33 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n- Subject: More Compaq blunders I am sad to dayh8 Message-ID: <u6nsgtsa1nnj5dt0l7mp6rudl0nsrqk600@4ax.com>  A The mail from Compaq never stops. I've now received the Compaq UKvF product guide and price lists (dated 9th April 2001). It contains such@ gems as "Linus ready" systems in several places. To be fair theyC manage "linux ready" in a few other places. It also manages to listaE 512MB ES40 systems (6/500) as considerably cheaper with 1GB than withRD 512MB for both the Tru-64 and VMS price lists. An ES40 model 1 dropsC in price by 4,000 ($6000) if you add an extra 512MB.I'm sure there>A are probably numerous other errors as I found these two within 30d! seconds of opening the pricelist.   C On top of this I have found out why I have not received our VMS 7.3aC kits. Seems that  the licenses correctly are on support but the VMSeE SUDS line item "got lost" during the VAX to Alpha switch. I have been E waiting for a quote to resolve this for several days but am told thatsC "the VMS Software Update Distribution Service has vanished from thetC Compaq UK price list" . I am told someone is investigating and willmD get back to me. Highly re-assuring that Compaq can't sell a VMS SUDS subscription at the moment.o  F I reckon it is time for Marcello to have another chat with Capellas asF this sort of thing just drives us up the wall and shows little sign ofD easing up. I am really sick, sick, sick pointing out that the CompaqB classic sales force is, by and large, incompetent when it comes toE dealing with ex-DEC technology. Sorry if the truth hurts some people.  -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:02:45 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: More Compaq blunders I am sad to dayu< Message-ID: <puuP6.4559$zl5.1720505@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:u6nsgtsa1nnj5dt0l7mp6rudl0nsrqk600@4ax.com... >o% <random acts of cluelessness deleted>k >eH > I reckon it is time for Marcello to have another chat with Capellas asH > this sort of thing just drives us up the wall and shows little sign ofF > easing up. I am really sick, sick, sick pointing out that the CompaqD > classic sales force is, by and large, incompetent when it comes toG > dealing with ex-DEC technology. Sorry if the truth hurts some people.e > --  G IMHO this is not an issue for Rich to escalate to Michael Capellas, whoiL presumably is most concerned with CPQ's sagging stock value, etc, right now.  J If anything, Rich should strongly consider means by which he could educateG the CPQ Classic sales force on the righteousness of selling high-margin L offerings from the HPS Family of Fine Alpha Platforms. T'is obvious that the5 Wintel contingent needs a lot of help in this regard.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:31:17 +0100m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c1 Subject: Re: More Compaq blunders I am sad to dayt8 Message-ID: <ceusgtg53cfsvap1et2r2dfgfralboe8h8@4ax.com>  4 On Fri, 25 May 2001 15:02:45 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   > 3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messagef3 >news:u6nsgtsa1nnj5dt0l7mp6rudl0nsrqk600@4ax.com...  >>& ><random acts of cluelessness deleted> >>I >> I reckon it is time for Marcello to have another chat with Capellas assI >> this sort of thing just drives us up the wall and shows little sign oflG >> easing up. I am really sick, sick, sick pointing out that the Compaq E >> classic sales force is, by and large, incompetent when it comes to H >> dealing with ex-DEC technology. Sorry if the truth hurts some people. >> --  >eH >IMHO this is not an issue for Rich to escalate to Michael Capellas, whoM >presumably is most concerned with CPQ's sagging stock value, etc, right now.   > Probably true and I have resisted the temptation to fire off a complaint directly to Capellas  K >If anything, Rich should strongly consider means by which he could educateeH >the CPQ Classic sales force on the righteousness of selling high-marginM >offerings from the HPS Family of Fine Alpha Platforms. T'is obvious that thel6 >Wintel contingent needs a lot of help in this regard.  B I'd like to see the VMS marketing and technical teams run modifiedD versions of the DIamond  Forums and Technical Update Days for CompaqE classic marketing and pre-sales technical folks. Wouldn't do any good(F for the genuine clowns but I'd bet a few would come away saying "Wow!"   >w >n   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:47:32 GMT04 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: More Compaq blunders I am sad to dayu< Message-ID: <E0wP6.4577$zl5.1759559@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   > >>( > ><random acts of cluelessness deleted> > >>K > >> I reckon it is time for Marcello to have another chat with Capellas aswK > >> this sort of thing just drives us up the wall and shows little sign of-I > >> easing up. I am really sick, sick, sick pointing out that the Compaq G > >> classic sales force is, by and large, incompetent when it comes togJ > >> dealing with ex-DEC technology. Sorry if the truth hurts some people. > >> --a > >rJ > >IMHO this is not an issue for Rich to escalate to Michael Capellas, whoJ > >presumably is most concerned with CPQ's sagging stock value, etc, right now. >r@ > Probably true and I have resisted the temptation to fire off a! > complaint directly to Capellas.   I Probably a prudent course of action. If Capellas is inundated with emails K that cause him to think that the VMS constituency is a bunch of zealots andaE whiners (despite the fact that such would not be the intention of theP: emails) he is unlikely to look favorably on the situation.   >pE > >If anything, Rich should strongly consider means by which he couldl educategJ > >the CPQ Classic sales force on the righteousness of selling high-marginK > >offerings from the HPS Family of Fine Alpha Platforms. T'is obvious thatt thea8 > >Wintel contingent needs a lot of help in this regard. >uD > I'd like to see the VMS marketing and technical teams run modifiedF > versions of the DIamond  Forums and Technical Update Days for CompaqG > classic marketing and pre-sales technical folks. Wouldn't do any good+H > for the genuine clowns but I'd bet a few would come away saying "Wow!" >   J Of this I have little doubt! Particularly when the salesfolk see the levelL of interest from the VMS customer base, and, of course, the Generous Margins associated with HPS goods!   cheers,n   terry sc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:19:20 -0400a. From: Do_Not_Respond <netnews23@publicist.com>: Subject: Netnews Stock Alert: Imporant Account Information- Message-ID: <0GDW007GMIQAXJ@mx.east.saic.com>t  J ATTENTION: We have recently purchased several web properties,one of which L you are represented as a registered user. If this is not so...Please follow B removal instructions properly! If you respond to this mail,or use / spamcop...you will continue to get our service.t  @ RemovalIntructions: Please send mail to: netnews23@publicist.com  @ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Today's Market Update  i@ ----------------------------------------------------------------L 9:45AM: The markets have opened reasonably flat. Each of the major averages J trades modestly lower in early activity that lacks conviction. The market I action is not surprising though with three economic releases expected at -L the top of this hour. Market internals on both the Big Board and the Nasdaq F are also flat which fits with the lack of direction in early trading. K Semiconductors are showing relative strength with the SOX posting an early pG 0.8% gain. Cyclicals are also strong early while financials and retail C
 trade mixed.  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------! Today's spotlight Company  [QLNX]:@ ----------------------------------------------------------------  I Quintalinux Limited in iOffice2000 Marketing Agreement With Acer Computerr  H HONG KONG--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 23, 2001--Quintalinux Limited (Company) L (Nasdaq:QLNX - news), a leading technology provider in the Peoples Republic K of China and Hong Kong, offering innovative, high technology solutions for -A intelligent buildings, interior construction, systems design and oJ integration, and Linux development, today announced a marketing agreement G with Acer Computer Ltd. (Acer), a world-leading computer manufacturer, aJ under which the Company's iOffice2000 Web-enabling groupware will be sold F with Acer computers beginning May 23, 2001, and continuing on a trial C basis, pending ongoing negotiations toward a definitive agreement. 3  K Through its wholly owned IT-distribution subsidiary, JEXT Co. Ltd. (JEXT), eF which holds iOffice2000 distribution rights, the Company will provide K iOffice2000 CD-ROMs to Acer, which will be bundled with five user licenses tL with their Altos Server and Veriton workstation series system. iOffice2000, E which enables automated daily operation and a paperless office, is a eF Web-based groupware that requires installation only on the server and D allows users to communicate and access information using only a Web I browser. Additional licensed copies will be available from JEXT Co. Ltd. i- for approximately US$50 per additional user. s  L As part of a marketing strategy to launch their new bundling campaign, Acer K and JEXT will participate in this year's International Computer Expo 2001, oE to be held from May 24 through May 27, 2001. The Expo is Hong Kong's rL largest and oldest technology industry event, attended annually by industry K and trade professionals, from manufacturers and distributors to end-users. -G The show is expected to generate strong interest in the new packaging, kJ since Acer will be displaying and promoting iOffice2000 together with its 
 hardware.   D Quintalinux Chairman Mr. Chu Tat commented: ``We feel that bundling J groupware with computing hardware will prove to be an effective marketing L strategy to reach a larger audience and increase sales, since bundling will J allow the computer's functions to be easily and immediately enhanced with & an important Web-enabling capability.   	 Thank You    ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 16:37:49 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)* Subject: Re: Plotting Program - available?, Message-ID: <9em1ot$mjk@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ^ In article <3B0D7DBC.D1B0BEF@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:? >I'm looking for a free pltting application that can take commae6 >delineated data files and print out postscript files. >9 Gnuplot.  Also     GLE_3_3H_VMS_ALPHA.ZIP   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech uJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:33:38 +02002* From: Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de>+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearingR& Message-ID: <3B0E5122.A574104D@web.de>   Dave Butenhof wrote:   [...]2\ > What's lacking, perhaps, is a requirement that some particular C data size is "safe"; thatW > all possible machines ? compilers must support and maintain a definition of "a memoryaY > location" no larger than some type, such as "int" or "long". The logical candidate hereo^ > would be sig_atomic_t. Though the requirement isn't spelled out, this must have the requiredM > characteristics in order to be safe for signal handler access as specified.o  7 well, i was under impression that "sig_atomic_t" alone  4 does not guarantee thread (or even signal) safety.. 3 only the combination of _static_storage_duration_,  6 _volatile_ and _sig_atomic_t makes it safe.. and only 5 for signal handlers.. i could imagine an impl. which i3 would just disable signal delivery while accessing s3 "static volatile sig_atomic_t" variable (allocated e6 in some special storage region - for static volatiles 6 sig_atomic_t's only) or would do something else which ' would NOT work with respect to threads.8   or am i missing something?   regards,
 alexander.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:58:59 +0200c* From: Alexander Terekhov <terekhov@web.de>+ Subject: Re: POSIX threads and word tearing & Message-ID: <3B0E5713.14213705@web.de>   Dave Butenhof wrote:   [...]h > Nevertheless, the Java\ > memory model is currently badly flawed (and a bad model may be worse than none). And, even[ > when it's fixed, it will impose substantial performance overhead on all applications thatn: > will benefit only a relatively small class of programs.   = IMHO, revised volatiles are actually faster than lock/unlock o? (although, i think that they are somewhat error prone). anyhow, : i do not see any "substantial performance overhead on all 3 applications". could you please provide more info..y   regards,
 alexander.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:59:24 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>I Subject: Presentation Collateral From VMS Technical Update Days in Londono< Message-ID: <MbwP6.4580$zl5.1763095@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  L If you didn't make it to Jury's Hotel in central London for the much-vauntedH VMS Technical Update Days, a tasteful selection of presentations at said? venue can be downloaded from the following site. Check 'em out!     & http://www.compaq.co.uk/campaigns/vms/      &       VMS Technical Update Days London       15th & 16th May, 2001 (             Presentation Title   Speaker  (             VMS Strategy   Frank McGowan*             OpenVMS Update   Steve Hoffman*             TCP/IP Update   Graham Howland1             Performance Management   Steve Liemann?             Performance of Cluster Interconnects   Verell Boaeni             XFC   Ian Percival/             VMS Hints and Kinks   Steve Hoffmano7             OpenVMS Fibre Channel   John Andruszkiewicz              NUMA   Ian Percivala.             OpenVMS Lock Manager   Doug Gordon?             Volume Shadowing and MiniCopy   John Andruszkiewiczt0             Trouble shooting LANs   Verell Boaen3             Compaq Secure Web Server   Nigel Barkert0             Shannon Knows Compaq   Terry Shannon   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:13:01 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>24 Subject: Re: Reinstalling Backup patch on 7.2 system' Message-ID: <3B0E767D.2232ECB4@fsi.net>n   "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > 3 > Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote: I > > OK, I'm wondering if the following might be the answer to my problems=P > > VMS72_UPDATE-V0200 seems to have something for this problem.  Obviously someM > > patches slipped past me last summer while I was in the process of gettingnP > > married, and before I got on the patches mailing list.  Opps.  Becuase I seeK > > I'm also missing VMS72_SYS-V0300.  I'll get my system up to the current=% > > patch level and see what happens.o > L > OK, maybe I shouldn't have installed the PCSI patch until after installingK > the above to patches.  It craters on both of them like I mentioned in the- > previous message.a > M > I'm now in the process of duping the disk I made prior to trying to upgrade:G > to V7.2-1H1.  I'll see if I can't have better luck by first trying toeK > install the above two patches, then the PCSI patch.  Though at this pointrK > I'm pretty much resigned to having to rebuild my server from scratch.  AtwF > least I'll be able to do that on another system while keeping it up. >  >                         Zane  G Lessee now - exactly WHAT shortcoming of VMSINSTAL was PCSI supposed toe resolve?  C Maybe DCL processing an RMS indexed file or two would have sufficedaC rather than the "PCSI database", corruption of which leads to thesec9 ACCVIOs (as I understood the "read me" files to explain).a   -- t David J. Dachteraw dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:49:17 +0100e  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comI Subject: Re: Remote printing through a Cisco Router and no IP addressing.aH Message-ID: <OFEDB43E79.D3A8E2D2-ON80256A57.003B1F2F@qedi.quintiles.com>  D If the Cisco devices are bridging as well as routing then I would beG inclined to put a terminal server such as a DECserver 700 on the remoteaH side and print using LAT to a port on the DECserver which the printer is attached to.  G DECserver details should be found on the Digital Network Products Groupi website at www.dnpg.comu  K You can choose DECservers that do not require downline loading so MOP would % not be required for normal operation.l   Steve.   Stephen Bray wrote:o >t ./..C > If someone could provide me with a clue on how to setup up remote G > printing to either the serial printer or to the workstations that use 2 > Windows printers, I would greatly appreciate it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:45:26 -0400l% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>s* Subject: Re: savesets not exceeding 650 MB/ Message-ID: <tgsrvte2u1fpbb@news.supernews.com>l  L CD-Rs are not seen as regular disks and they don't work like disks.  WritingJ is an "all or nothing" operation.  Even the PC drivers that seem to make a1 CD-R look like a regular disk are just faking it.-  L If you want to backup to CD-R on VMS, you really have to have a virtual disk in the middle.  E "John Macallister" <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> wrote in messageuH news:35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BEF84@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk...J > I don't fully understand the concern about writing backup savesets on toB > multiple CDs. If the writeable CD is seen by VMS as a "standard" demountable K > disk (or tape) device it ought to be possible to write backup savesets oni toK > multiple CDs. If the output device on to which you're writing the savesets isJ > mounted /FOREIGN , BACKUP will ask for extra CD volumes to be mounted asL > required: it doesn't matter whether it's a disk, tape or otherwise as long' > as the device is seen as demountable.MG > However, if the CD driver is non-standard (i.e. not fully functional)r thereyB > may be problems and I don't have a writeable CD to check it out. >f > John >RD > Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukJ > Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKC > Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)i >l >n >g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:08:38 +0100 / From: "Sean Nockles" <sean_nockles@hotmail.com>l Subject: Shelved files, Message-ID: <9ela1o$b81$1@diana.veritas.com>  J Does anyone know how you can delete a shelved file, without reinitialising  the disk, if you don't have HSM.  C Compaq's official response is that it's not possible at the moment.    Sean.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:15:24 -0500c1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Shelved files' Message-ID: <3B0E770C.B77A17A8@fsi.net>e   Sean Nockles wrote:o > L > Does anyone know how you can delete a shelved file, without reinitialising" > the disk, if you don't have HSM. > E > Compaq's official response is that it's not possible at the moment.    $ SET FILE/REMOVEi $ ANAL/DISK/REPAIR   ???S   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.u   ------------------------------   Date: 25 MAY 2001 15:38:26 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>n Subject: Re: Shelved files2 Message-ID: <25MAY01.15382604@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  0 "Sean Nockles" <sean_nockles@hotmail.com> wrote:L > Does anyone know how you can delete a shelved file, without reinitialising" > the disk, if you don't have HSM. >  oE > Compaq's official response is that it's not possible at the moment.y  F When I had this problem I modified the venerable FILE utility to unsetF the shelved flag.  You can get the definitions of the appropriate bitsD from $xabitmdef.  Or send me an email and we'll find a way to get my mods to you.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVsH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:57:42 +0100d  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com& Subject: Re: Standalone Backup VMS 6.2H Message-ID: <OF3629AFAD.B944FE32-ON80256A57.004670D4@qedi.quintiles.com>  F I don't think that DCLTABLES.EXE is built from the .CLD files - if oneJ looks at sys$common:[000000]dec-axpvms-vms-v0701-1h2-2.pcsi$description on@ a v7.1-1h2 system then you'll see something like the following :  * file [SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.TEMPLATE size 590 ; scope global ;J      file [SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE size 590 source DCLTABLES.TEMPLATE write ; end scope ;t  J I take this as "I'm going to give you the template file and then I'm going. to copy this to the executable image as well".  J Copying DCLTABLES.EXE over was certainly the workaround which Compaq and I5 discussed, agreed on and implemented (and it worked).i   Steve.   >>>rH Since posting I have found out most of what has been discussed here. TwoF MOUNT patches have been applied. ALPMOUN04 and ALPMOUN05, both contain fixeshH for the MOUNT command. The kit for the most recent patch is still on theK system and when I list the save set it shows MOUNT.CLD as one of the files.oJ This file contains the correct syntax for the MOUNT image currently on theF system, but, SYS$UPDATE contains a MOUNT.CLD dated 1993. The procedureI AXPVMS$PCSI_INSTALL_MIN.COM recreates DCLTABLES.EXE, presumably using theuI CLD files in SYS$UPDATE but the intallation of the patch did not copy thewC MOUNT.CLD to SYS$UPDATE and so was not available when DCLTABLES wasn created.  F Two possible solutions, extract the new MOUNT.CLD file and SET COMMAND usingeI it when I boot standalone, or, copy DCLTABLES.EXE to the SABKUP device. I- amE going to try the second, as other commands may be affected by similaroJ problems and by doing this I hope to avoid further trouble of this nature. <<<c   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 13:16:44 GMT% From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.come, Subject: UCX$RSHD_Startup.log file placement* Message-ID: <9ellvs$u6o$1@news.netmar.com>   Hi,.  C We use RSH a lot. Every time it is invoked it creates a log file inaM sys$manager. Is there anyway of redirecting this to another location, maybe ao$ logical we can define or something ?   Thanks Andrew  O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  ----- M   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupshI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsmL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------    Date: 25 May 2001 03:12:02 -0700& From: nick@desmith.net (Nick de Smith)N Subject: Re: VMS Engineering and fun/unusual hardware, was: Re: Multimedia Doc= Message-ID: <9bbbf474.0105250212.35074eb7@posting.google.com>t   Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.excite.com-Earth.UFP> wrote in message news:<C6zM6.4299$6j3.375798@www.newsranger.com>...F > When I see comments like these it makes me wonder just what else VMS? > Engineering gets up to that we never get to hear about... :-)-  ^ There are some unusual things, certainly. Some of the more ordinary (;-) see the light of day:  E http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/techreports/html/TN-13/pickle.htmlC   > L > On a related matter, does anyone want to comment on the most unusual pieceH > of hardware (either on the bus or via an external interface) that they> > have ever seen connected to and controlled by a VMS system ?   ;-)d   Nick   ------------------------------   Date: 25 May 2001 14:24:27 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: VMS<->RSTS , Message-ID: <9elpur$25po$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ' In article <GDv99I.HFF@spcuna.spc.edu>,p+  Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:o |> r |>  ? |>   Ok. Are you using DECnet Phase IV or V on the VAX system? .  	 Phase IV.   J |>                                                             Phase IV isG |> pretty easy to deal with. Usually a simple NETCONFIG will give you a0 |> working configuration.l  G Did that.  That's how I fixed the "No device" error that appeared after H I fixed the expired license.  The biggest problem about this is the factE that other than having to install a new PAK, nothing has been changedeH on the machine since the last time I actually used DECNET to communicate between two VAX.  G Question:  Is there anything in the CMOS of a 4000/100 that might causemI this to happen??  I suspect that the battery on this box has died and the  power has been turned off.   |> hL |>   Note that by default VMS and RSTS/E don't have a DECnet remote terminalJ |> protocol in common. In order to connect from VMS to RSTS/E, you need to/ |> use the [undocumented] SET HOST/OLD on VMS. t  D Somehow, I think getting it to actually transmit some form of DECNET: packets on the ethernet is the first step to solving this.  H |>                                             To connect from RSTS/E toH |> VMS, you need to copy NETUNS.TSK to NET.TSK (IIRC) on the RSTS/E box.  H While possibly usefull in the future, right now I am only looking for a I way to get into the RSTS box without standing at the console so VMS->RSTS  is the real target.t   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   :   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:41:15 GMTP( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: VMS<->RSTSc' Message-ID: <GDwH0r.HDq@spcuna.spc.edu>e  3 Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> writes:wA > |>   Ok. Are you using DECnet Phase IV or V on the VAX system? o >e > Phase IV.      That's the correct answer 8-)   I > Did that.  That's how I fixed the "No device" error that appeared afteraJ > I fixed the expired license.  The biggest problem about this is the factG > that other than having to install a new PAK, nothing has been changed*J > on the machine since the last time I actually used DECNET to communicate > between two VAX.     Do:*     $ mcr ncp sho kno circ   $ mcr ncp sho kno line   $ mcr ncp sho kno node     and get back to me.   I > Question:  Is there anything in the CMOS of a 4000/100 that might cause K > this to happen??  I suspect that the battery on this box has died and thew > power has been turned off.     Nope.   F > Somehow, I think getting it to actually transmit some form of DECNET< > packets on the ethernet is the first step to solving this.     8-)d  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:30:26 GMTp0 From: sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com (Warren Sander)? Subject: Re: Website white paper questions (DEC/EDI and others?d2 Message-ID: <SEwP6.751$fi2.16784@news.cpqcorp.net>  V re: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/WHITEPAPERS/ovms_strategy/ovms_strategy.html  ' First that paper is from October 1995, d It hasn't changed since then..  J I can't keep 'old/legacy/old/old/old' stuff around if you all start takingN it seriously... The update was to put the 'keylime' javascripts onto the page O which are part of a tracking system that compaq.com is using to gauge web site c usage and click-streams. t  J EVERY page was updated on May 17th to add that script (if you care it's at, the end of every page before the </body> tag  L Just to keep you all in the loop every page will be updated with a new brand  standard sometime in June/July.   < I try to keep the dates on the upper level index pages like < http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/whitepapers/index.html  N There you will see the dates. I'm trying to keep this older outdated but stillN useful stuff around but lets be real honest. Anything said/committed to beforeM june 1998 is probably not happening. Anything commited to before this centurylF is iffy :-) NOW DON"T JUMP OFF THE DEEP END. Look at the roadmaps, andE the OpenVMS Strategy presentation and letters (both available off of  B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/) Let those be your guides.   L The web is alive thing and lots of people still are in a 'finish it and whenM we run out of the printed copies we don't have to worry about it anymore' but N if I'm not told to take something down or a replacement is submitted I tend toQ keep the old stuff around. Hey someone might need it. And also remember you can'th: re-write history. If it says DIGITAL on it then it's old.    -warrenl     -- oB ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingD Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@compaq.comE 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@ma.ultranet.comt3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875r6    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself -          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ CB ------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 02:10:27 -0700 (PDT) $ From: nclews <nclews at csc dot com>6 Subject: Re: XP-1000 Machine check - what does it mean1 Message-ID: <631.990604478048@iw0.mailusenet.com>    In reply to:M http://www.etin.com/article/Article.jsp?messageID=20407433&folder=comp.os.vmsa  ) >I believe Machine check means hardware ?   J Mostly yes (but can be induced by kernel code as someone else pointed out)  L >Faailing PC:        FFFFFFFF.800170F4    EXE$SYSTEM_CORRECTED_ERROR_C+003F4  _ This I think clinches the hardware. If it happens once it may be a stray passing alpha particleeS knocking a 'bit'. If it keeps happening, then call hardware. You need to check yourDX error log it should give you the location provinding the errorlog buffers are big enoughV to hold the error. If you're not on Compaq maintenance, try swapping the memory if youO have more than two and see what happens to the error. That would be definitive.b  ) Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences.t nclews at csc dot comt .p ----I Posted via http://www.etin.com - the FREE public USENET portal on the WebpF Complete SEARCHING, BROWSING, and POSTING of text and BINARY messages!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.288 ************************