1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 28 May 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 293       Contents: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations  Re: Affordable VMS Workstations $ Re: HSDSA Scrip in a Batch Procedure Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS Re: IRCD for VMS JRE.DMP ( Re: More Compaq blunders I am sad to day: Re: Unable to Telnet & Rlogin from Solaris/HPUX to OpenVMS: Re: Unable to Telnet & Rlogin from Solaris/HPUX to OpenVMS: RE: Unable to Telnet & Rlogin from Solaris/HPUX to OpenVMS. Re: Very odd:  Init/erase is controller-based?: Re: VMS Home Automation (was: Affordable VMS Workstations)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 27 May 2001 18:31:31 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> ( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations0 Message-ID: <3b1147ec$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  L I could see this as a target, but I think this would only be achievable once you had volume sales.   H The pricing on the system is obviously lean but not really that far fromG what is achievable today.  Single unit Alphas built similar to PCs with F OpenVMS are about $1800 to $2000, list.  With a bit of negotiating andI volume discounts I would expect you could get that down to about $1500 in  the current market.   K Like anything else, if you can show a market for it and also a reason to do L the deal in a business sense, such as with volume, I think you will find youJ can get the system and environment you want.  You would not expect to haveJ this as far as a retail or normal "commercial" system, i.e. general usage,I but given the special nature of the application and how you would want to L utilize the technology you might be able to make a case where the deal could
 be struck.  L It would be nice to see it lower $1500 for the base system but I would thinkE that if you went after the high-end market your price of $5K could be L boosted a fair amount.  And it is the high end market where you would expectL to be able to start getting interest and purchases.  If your system could beL shown to have a positive effect on the cost of running a home, a larger homeH would save the cost of the unit in couple years with its savings I would expect.    Bill.   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B1063A5.5460DEE8@fsi.net...  > I > I'd expect circa. $5,000 installed to be about the median, no more than ; > the cost of, oh say, a new furnace installed. Most of the B > temperature/pressure sensors should be commodity items. CO/smokeH > detectors with suitable interfaces may be a bit more difficult to find > at "commodity" prices. > E > The core machine itself should probably top out around $2200 or so, H > including o.s., interfaces and automation software. The machine shouldC > read everything into memory from (PROM, CD-ROM, or something else < > suitable) and run from RAMdisk or some similar technology. > E > That price should be sufficiently attractive to get it into the new J > developments with relatively little sales effort. Retro-fitting an olderI > home should not be a large task, except for the CO/smoke detectors. IAT : > sensors could/should use the existing thermostat wiring. > G > I could even see such systems start to become required by code in new / > construction within five years of it's debut.  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. > B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:48:03 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> ( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations, Message-ID: <3B117613.8478E90A@infopuls.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:  > = > In article <3B106BDD.F1AA3072@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"   > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   [SNIP]  G > A home system wouldn't need quite the accuracy or reliability that we I > demanded, so you could cut corners .Still, you wouldn't like it if your D > house got 10 degrees colder every time your neighbor turned on hisL > dishwasher.  EM noise is evil, and it seems to seek out anything connectedJ > to a computer.   Cut too many corners, and your house would be broken as > often as a Windoze PC.  ? Depend on what you're measuring and how fast you want to react. : For the temperature I don't see a problem because you will8 certainly use an average value which will filter out the1 statistical EM noise and react slowly on changes.    [SNIP]  I > (One of the ways VMS became so widespread in labs (and probably also in H > factories, process control, etc.)  was by supporting a huge variety ofB > hardware via Q-bus, and providing an incredibly stable, reliableI > platform.  I still see a surprising amount of lab equipment attached to K > decade-old microvaxes, still working just fine.  That doesn't happen with  > PCs.)  >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com   < ABB one of the biggest power station and electricity control> systems provider used VAX/VMS for their steering panels. A few; years ago they started to replace it with ... guess what. I @ don't know if they continue because I expect they will have made+ their bad experiences like the USS Navy ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 17:49:08 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations& Message-ID: <3B118464.11513E3@fsi.net>   Robert Deininger wrote:  > [snip]G > A home system wouldn't need quite the accuracy or reliability that we I > demanded, so you could cut corners .Still, you wouldn't like it if your D > house got 10 degrees colder every time your neighbor turned on his
 > dishwasher.   > No, I think you're right - we're not talking about industrial,C shop-floor quality gear here. We'd likely be talking about a fairly D simple thermocouple (thermistor?) device which converts voltage to aC digital signal. Likewise, a pressure sensor, though that would more $ likely be capacitive than resistive.  @ >  EM noise is evil, and it seems to seek out anything connected > to a computer.    G Shouldn't be a major problem, with the possible exception of an amateur E radio operator's home or a home near a commercial radio station where E the device(s) might be in close proximity to a multi-hundred kilowatt  linear amplifier's output.  D Testing in "Tornado alley", or any other place where they have a lotG lightning would be a good place to install prototypes. I understand the E Florida peninsula is considered to be the thunderstorm capital of the 
 mainland U.S.   : >  Cut too many corners, and your house would be broken as > often as a Windoze PC.  D No direct (or indirect!) connection to the internet - shouldn't be a problem.   K > If I had to pull a number out of the sky, I'd guess you could get down to K > $50/channel for household sensors and control circuits. That would add up  > fairly fast.  H I'm thinking $20 might be closer to where we wanna be in mass-productionH ("commodity") mode. Prototypes and early adopters might see higher costs% initially, until the volume ramps up.    > > > It would be REAL= > > > annoying when it broke, and maybe unsafe in some cases.  > > J > > The system would be self-diagnosing, issuing appropriate warnings when > > components fail. > G > Ok, then you have to double or triple the price for the components...    Maybe, but I doubt it.   L > And now you're starting to talk about real software, not the mickey-clicky5 > snotware that most of the industry is churning out.   > Web interface (on a chip?) is most likely where we'd wanna be.   >  It has to be almost > completely autonomous,  B Absolutely! ...though probably with an option to "phone home" when/ there's a problem, like EMCs storage arrays do.   D ...and before anyone asks, no - modems(, etc.) would *NOT* be set to auto answer!  / > yet allow Joe and Jane homemaker to adjust it I > easily.  It should be reliable and self-diagnosing.  It should be safe.  > This is not $49.95 software.  A Now we're heading back toward the "Affordable OpenVMS: Margin Vs. A Volume" discussion - dangerous ground (based on past experience).   - > If you go to the trouble of making reliable J > software, you find that peecees themselves are too quirky, the OS is tooG > unstable, and the commercial application software that supports weird G > electronics is usually a joke.  A reliable computer (alpha) running a H > reliable OS (VMS) would be a dream in this environment.   But it's too. > expensive to use in a household environment.  F ...which is, I believe, where this sub-thread started out in the firstA place. Hence, the subject line "Re: Affordable VMS Workstations".    K > But if you decide to do it yourself as a hobby, then money and time don't  > count. ;-)  F Well, sort of. You'd really like to see this go commercial eventually.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 20:56:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ( Subject: Re: Affordable VMS Workstations, Message-ID: <3B11A242.83F5B8F8@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: I > The initial Alpha game plan (per circa-1990 Secret Documents) was to go  > head-to-head with Intel.    M > Compaq is in way serious cost-cutting mode. An expensive effort to create a C > new product for a relatively narrow market (remember, no personal 8 > productivity apps on VMS) would not go over very well.  L At the time Alpha came out,  VMS has office productivity on VMS that rivaledJ the primitive Microsoft offerings. Decwrite, Allin1/Teamlinks, and a.l theK messaging backbone and gateways. Digital also had the CDA architecture with J the converters.  But Digital, affraid to cannabalise a few high end sales,M forfeited the game because it didn't price its products competitively. And by L failing to migrate Message Router to Alpha, it cannabalised DEC's historicalJ lead in enterprise messaging products.  Recall that there was no migrationM program to allow customers to upgrade from message router to te newer Mailbus I X.400 product. (or bite the bullet and get/buy PMDF and make one standard  email backbone for VMS)   M Had they wanted to, they could have. Digital had far superior networking then M the very basic MS or Novell stuff. You coudl cluster workstations or run them  over decnet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 18:07:41 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> - Subject: Re: HSDSA Scrip in a Batch Procedure ' Message-ID: <3B1188BD.350AF568@fsi.net>    arturo saavedra wrote: > 
 > Hello... > L > Would anybody have an example of a batch procedure running the HSDSA-SCRIPJ > in order to obtain information from a set of controllers?  I usually runM > this interactively, but would like to automate this procedure in batch job.   = Supply the responses to HSDSA-SCRIPT's prompts as image data:    $ RUN ddcu:<dir>HSDSA-SCRIPT target_node  script_filespec  log_filespec NONE $ EOD   F The order of responses may be different from I listed here. Don't haveH the program or the readme handy. The "$ EOD" is actually superfluous - IE just include it for my own info., usually. HSDSA-SCRIPT is written in G Pascal by a non-VMS programmer - it doesn't understand what EOF on it's 6 primary input stream (SYS$INPUT) should mean (*SIGH*).   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 19:05:57 +0100 - From: "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk>  Subject: Re: IRCD for VMS ? Message-ID: <TGbQ6.10035$Hd6.175660@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>   J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009FCA39.5527206C@SendSpamHere.ORG...K > I applaud the efforts to port utilities to VMS, but many too many require  a K > build on VMS and fail to cover the details necessary to build them.  What I > happens then?  Bandwidth consumed with silly questions about how to get  the K > package to compile/build successfully.  Of course, C is portable so there # > shouldn't be any problems, right?   L I'm sorry, I won't post such things here in future.  I'm still new with VMS,J and I'm not sure of all the portability problems.  If critisism is all I'm going . to be offered for my efforts, then .. *shrug*.  = If anyone else wants to help, feel free to mail my privately.        -larne-    ------------------------------   Date: 27 May 2001 20:47:09 GMT- From: "Bill Pedersen" <pedersen@ccsscorp.com>  Subject: Re: IRCD for VMS 0 Message-ID: <3b116814$1@kerberos.linuxpuppy.net>  H I am not so sure criticism is the issue, rather than the way some of theK folks around here respond to items which they had thought were suggested to 
 be "working".   J The OpenVMS environment, while robust and secure, has a few pitfall if you4 come with the expectation of "Gee its written in C!"  F Please continue you involvement with the group and your posts.  As youK become more accustomed to the environment your code will become more robust ? as well.  Also your build procedures.  Nothing wrong with that.   F I will talk to some of my staff about putting the server on one of our systems for an evaluation.   --
 Bill Pedersen  CCSS Corporation CCSS Interactive Learning 
 www.VMS.St 831-336-2708 ================  8 "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> wrote in message9 news:TGbQ6.10035$Hd6.175660@news11-gui.server.ntli.net... L > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:009FCA39.5527206C@SendSpamHere.ORG...E > > I applaud the efforts to port utilities to VMS, but many too many  require  > a G > > build on VMS and fail to cover the details necessary to build them.  WhatK > > happens then?  Bandwidth consumed with silly questions about how to get  > the G > > package to compile/build successfully.  Of course, C is portable so  there % > > shouldn't be any problems, right?  > I > I'm sorry, I won't post such things here in future.  I'm still new with  VMS,L > and I'm not sure of all the portability problems.  If critisism is all I'm > going 0 > to be offered for my efforts, then .. *shrug*. > ? > If anyone else wants to help, feel free to mail my privately.  > 
 >     -larne-  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:53:18 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: IRCD for VMS , Message-ID: <3B11774E.B06C1709@infopuls.com>  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > X > In article <9ep71o$1fcq$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>, dsf@frontiernet.net (Dan Foster). > crawled out from under some rock and writes:9 > >In article <1010526163442.37731A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, ? > >>> VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 wrote:  > >>> O > >>> Gee, that's nice.  Perhaps it would even nicer if you explained what IRCD O > >>> is.  Those that have not heard of this package might take an interest and  > >>> give it a try. > >>> -- > > K > >My guess is that the initial announcement was more targeted toward those M > >who had an existing interest and knowledge. Not an inherently unreasonable L > >proposition. Sarcasm not necessary - if you were truly curious, could ask* > >while checking the sarcasm at the door. > >dI > >I'd answer your question, but looks like Mr. Santos has already nicelyV5 > >answered it, so I'll add just a little more to it.S > K > Perhaps reading comprehension was not an emphasized skill set during yourDL > primary education but I had stated that "Those that have not heard of thisL > package..."  I recognized the significance of IRC in IRCD but it _is_ onlyL > a name.  For all we know, it may have been something completely different. > K > I've asked that messages stating "I have ported Claptrap V1.0 to OpenVMS;eL > get your copy here!" contain a brief explaination of the package's intent, > function or audience.- > L > BTW, this IRCD barfs in its build complaining CC-E-NOTEXPECTING errors.  IL > wonder why?  Before you answer this, the question was rhetorical.  Hmm.  IK > compiled on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha which "IRCD is known to work on".  I wonder J > if it could be that no compiler version was specified?  Gee!  No versionJ > was/is specified in the post or in the README.VMS so I guess any version > is sufficient? > M > I applaud the efforts to port utilities to VMS, but many too many require a K > build on VMS and fail to cover the details necessary to build them.  WhatcM > happens then?  Bandwidth consumed with silly questions about how to get thehK > package to compile/build successfully.  Of course, C is portable so therei# > shouldn't be any problems, right?m >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe > Q > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.   9 I refrain from posting anything against UNIX or C ... ;-)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:57:07 +0200 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>i Subject: Re: IRCD for VMSr, Message-ID: <3B117833.E3C91D19@infopuls.com>   Edward Brocklesby wrote: > L > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:009FCA39.5527206C@SendSpamHere.ORG...M > > I applaud the efforts to port utilities to VMS, but many too many requireo > aeM > > build on VMS and fail to cover the details necessary to build them.  WhateK > > happens then?  Bandwidth consumed with silly questions about how to getJ > theeM > > package to compile/build successfully.  Of course, C is portable so there % > > shouldn't be any problems, right?l > N > I'm sorry, I won't post such things here in future.  I'm still new with VMS,L > and I'm not sure of all the portability problems.  If critisism is all I'm > going 0 > to be offered for my efforts, then .. *shrug*. > ? > If anyone else wants to help, feel free to mail my privately.i > 
 >     -larne-o  & Not quite the "strongest" reaction ...< VMS is the best OS, so you will get most out of what you are> doing alone from having the pleasure to do it on VMS. Don't be@ afraid of the somewhat professional reactions in the NG! Instead: take any of the hints and recommendations and improve what> you're done. Others will be happy to use your work if they can? it use without having to fiddle around with compiler qualifierst a.s.o..p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 18:00:40 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: IRCD for VMS 6 Message-ID: <1010527174326.37731A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  - On Sun, 27 May 2001, Edward Brocklesby wrote:.  L > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:009FCA39.5527206C@SendSpamHere.ORG...M > > I applaud the efforts to port utilities to VMS, but many too many require  > a M > > build on VMS and fail to cover the details necessary to build them.  WhatrK > > happens then?  Bandwidth consumed with silly questions about how to getd > thetM > > package to compile/build successfully.  Of course, C is portable so there-% > > shouldn't be any problems, right?: > N > I'm sorry, I won't post such things here in future.  I'm still new with VMS,L > and I'm not sure of all the portability problems.  If critisism is all I'm > going 0 > to be offered for my efforts, then .. *shrug*. > ? > If anyone else wants to help, feel free to mail my privately.  > 
 >     -larne-t   Larne -   C Please continue to post such things.  They are completely on topic,e complaints not withstanding.  G Brian is a grump, but he has a point, and he has been asking this for anC while.  If you port something to VMS, just include: VAX or Alpha oriD both, VMS version you used, compiler version you used, and any knownE prerequisites (such as requiring X or a particular TCP/IP stack), andeE a one sentence summary of just what it is, for people unfamiliar withe program.  C ("IRCD is an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) Deamon commonly used on UnixtD for multi-user conversations, sort of a text conference call." would? have been a fine summary.  If someone wanted to know more, they B could ask or they could search for IRC or Internet Relay Chat, andA get a million hits.  They wouldn't have to wonder if it stood fort@ "Industrial Robot Control" or "Infrared Communications Driver".)  < Then if people try it on other versions, they can post their! experiences or follow-up offline.t  > I think everyone who follows this newsgroup (even Andrew) will1 agree that VMS needs all the software it can get.e  ) And thank you very much for contributing./   --   John Santosg Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 22:23:54 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: IRCD for VMS 8 Message-ID: <009FCA49.8130B611@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  o In article <TGbQ6.10035$Hd6.175660@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> writes:eK >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in messagea+ >news:009FCA39.5527206C@SendSpamHere.ORG...uL >> I applaud the efforts to port utilities to VMS, but many too many require >aL >> build on VMS and fail to cover the details necessary to build them.  WhatJ >> happens then?  Bandwidth consumed with silly questions about how to get >theL >> package to compile/build successfully.  Of course, C is portable so there$ >> shouldn't be any problems, right? >nM >I'm sorry, I won't post such things here in future.  I'm still new with VMS,tK >and I'm not sure of all the portability problems.  If critisism is all I'me >going/ >to be offered for my efforts, then .. *shrug*.  >h> >If anyone else wants to help, feel free to mail my privately. >h  B Please continue to post announcements of new ports here in future.   -- Alanm    O ===============================================================================l0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 22:39:27 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)' Subject: Re: IRCD for VMSt0 Message-ID: <009FCA64.D26AC8E2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <1010527174326.37731A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:e. >On Sun, 27 May 2001, Edward Brocklesby wrote: >rM >> "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message - >> news:009FCA39.5527206C@SendSpamHere.ORG...oN >> > I applaud the efforts to port utilities to VMS, but many too many require >> aN >> > build on VMS and fail to cover the details necessary to build them.  WhatL >> > happens then?  Bandwidth consumed with silly questions about how to get >> theN >> > package to compile/build successfully.  Of course, C is portable so there& >> > shouldn't be any problems, right? >> tO >> I'm sorry, I won't post such things here in future.  I'm still new with VMS,aM >> and I'm not sure of all the portability problems.  If critisism is all I'mg >> going1 >> to be offered for my efforts, then .. *shrug*.b >> l@ >> If anyone else wants to help, feel free to mail my privately. >> , >>     -larne- >b >Larne - >oD >Please continue to post such things.  They are completely on topic, >complaints not withstanding.l >i >Brian is a grump, b   ^^ @@  6 >but he has a point, and he has been asking this for a >while.   M Indeed I have.  I was merely asking for a brief description of a package when L an announcement is posted to the newsgroup.  Any of the ilk was intended for0 the Foster fellow; not the fellow that did IRCD.    > >  If you port something to VMS, just include: VAX or Alpha orE >both, VMS version you used, compiler version you used, and any knownmF >prerequisites (such as requiring X or a particular TCP/IP stack), andF >a one sentence summary of just what it is, for people unfamiliar with	 >program.i  L Larne asked for comments and I was going to offer a set of constructive com-L ments but Foster, I'll admit, got under my skin.  I've been working for manyL months porting a GNUnixy piece of code.  What crap.  I also asked Compaq forK a bit of assistance with a problem just this week and their answer was someaM piece of public domain unixy code which, of course, consumed hours of my timea@ to get it to compile.  A wonderful answer to a VMS question, eh?  L IRCD wasn't bad at all.  I didn't have to run CONFIGURE.COM and edit bizarreK CONFIG.H HAVE_mumbledefritz #defines just to get a compiled and linked .EXEdL that won't function.  What I did find is that V6.4 C compiled the code after7 running the build on a machine with a pre-V6.2 version.-  = Call me grumpy if you will but time and bandwidth cost money.i   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 19:12:54 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>p Subject: Re: IRCD for VMS ' Message-ID: <3B119806.39730AEF@fsi.net>k   Edward Brocklesby wrote: > L > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:009FC97F.A0F527AA@SendSpamHere.ORG...J > > In article <1VPP6.5204$Hd6.101469@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>, "Edward) > Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk> writes:DM > > Gee, that's nice.  Perhaps it would even nicer if you explained what IRCDiM > > is.  Those that have not heard of this package might take an interest andi > > give it a try. > $ > Sorry, I didn't think about that..M > www.irchelp.org and similar sites explain exactly what it is.. other peoplea > have! > already given the general idea.g > N > I'd be very interested in testing performance of ircd on VMS. Current serverL > platforms on the large IRC networks are Intel P2/P3.. it would probably be > good? > for VMS if someone could show a VMS server handling it well..l > 
 >     -larne-e  E Brian makes the point rather brusquely, I grant you, but his point issH none the less vitally important to anyone who might want to help you. WeG would need to know the exact details of your build environment (OpenVMSoG version, VAX or Alpha, programming language and compiler version, etc.)DG before would be able to duplicate your success in building the program,  much less implementing it.  H Rather different from PC land, I grant you. Still, even there, such data7 is frequently important for a successful build and run.h   -- r David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.H   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 01:35:44 +0100e- From: "Edward Brocklesby" <ejb@leguin.org.uk>( Subject: Re: IRCD for VMSG: Message-ID: <c5hQ6.605$Ix.5439@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3B119806.39730AEF@fsi.net.../ > WeI > would need to know the exact details of your build environment (OpenVMSnI > version, VAX or Alpha, programming language and compiler version, etc.)aI > before would be able to duplicate your success in building the program,  > much less implementing it.  F Ok, well, I'll say as much as I can.  I'm testing it on an OpenVMS 7.2 systemC running on an AlphaStation 500, DEC C V6.0-001, MultiNet V4.3(119).o, I'm using MMK to build it (unknown version).  7 A couple of things I'm currently having problems with --  J     1) I can't seem to use pipe() to implement interprocess communicationsH very well on VMS.  I think I should be looking at Mailboxs, but Compaq'sH documentation (including MACRO32 example code) is a little over my head.: (relevant code: [ircd-hybrid-7.src]s_serv.c fork_server().J     2) Is there a way to set a process name? similar to run/process_name=, but using an RTL.sG     3) Simple DCL questions, is there a way to delete everything from ao certainnK line (specified by location of a string) of a file until the end? Somethinge likeA sed -e '/string/,$d' on Unix. Or else, can I "include" files in a  descrip.mmsy5 file? (The point of this is to implement mmk depend).eJ     4) Another MMS/MMK things.. can i do "FOR"? I'd like something similar to...-  0 for directory in [.src] [.tools] [.servlink]; do   cd $directory@	   mmk allm done   but for VMS        -larne-g   ------------------------------   Date: 27 May 2001 20:11 CDTi' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s Subject: Re: IRCD for VMSr- Message-ID: <27MAY200120112026@gerg.tamu.edu>s  Z In article <3B117833.E3C91D19@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes... }Edward Brocklesby wrote:  }> tM }> "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in messageo- }> news:009FCA39.5527206C@SendSpamHere.ORG...mN }> > I applaud the efforts to port utilities to VMS, but many too many require }> aN }> > build on VMS and fail to cover the details necessary to build them.  WhatL }> > happens then?  Bandwidth consumed with silly questions about how to get }> theN }> > package to compile/build successfully.  Of course, C is portable so there& }> > shouldn't be any problems, right? }> kO }> I'm sorry, I won't post such things here in future.  I'm still new with VMS, M }> and I'm not sure of all the portability problems.  If critisism is all I'me }> going1 }> to be offered for my efforts, then .. *shrug*.f }>  @ }> If anyone else wants to help, feel free to mail my privately. }>   }>     -larne- } ' }Not quite the "strongest" reaction ... = }VMS is the best OS, so you will get most out of what you areo? }doing alone from having the pleasure to do it on VMS. Don't besA }afraid of the somewhat professional reactions in the NG! Insteadp; }take any of the hints and recommendations and improve whate? }you're done. Others will be happy to use your work if they canl@ }it use without having to fiddle around with compiler qualifiers }a.s.o..  > There was nothing professional about the reaction in question.= A simple polite inquiry for the needed information would have " been the professional thing to do.  ; People here often say that VMS needs more software. Here wea; have someone who actually ported something to VMS. What was-8 the resonse? The answer to that is that the response was: impolite and just plain stupid, unless the goal was to try; to insure that someone who actually ported something to VMSw7 never does so again and spreads the word to anyone else1: interested in doing ports that they are unwanted - if that3 was the goal then the response wasn't all that bad.>   --- Carl   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 03:02:20 +0000 (UTC)s& From: dsf@frontiernet.net (Dan Foster) Subject: Re: IRCD for VMS 5 Message-ID: <9esf3s$1260$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>   0 In article <009FCA64.D26AC8E2@SendSpamHere.ORG>,> Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:N >Indeed I have.  I was merely asking for a brief description of a package whenM >an announcement is posted to the newsgroup.  Any of the ilk was intended for 1 >the Foster fellow; not the fellow that did IRCD.s  F Ah, then I misunderstood the extent of your question. I'm sorry, then.  M >Larne asked for comments and I was going to offer a set of constructive com-uM >ments but Foster, I'll admit, got under my skin.  I've been working for manys  M I have no issues with the content of your request (re: VMS software porting), 1 but merely with the presentation of your request.g  J (And yes, I do know who you are, and of your numerous contributions to theJ VMS community over the years - a lot of them are indeed very useful to me.I I'm also sure you could recite the inner workings of a VMS driver in yourD sleep. ;) )   L For a moment, please put yourself in Larne's shoes - new to VMS, made a realH effort to the best of his knowledge, and then happily posted about it toJ comp.os.vms -- surely it'd at least get a positive reception in some form?N Instead, he's greeted by what could be construed as a put-down and accompaniedM by a rant. That rant was not addressed to him, just to people in general. But 6 to his perspective, could still take it the wrong way.  ; See his first response? He was obviously quite taken aback.a  M I'd like more new faces embrace VMS development rather than feeling unwelcomesM (even if it was a mistaken misinterpretation). Therefore I'd rather bring outiL the welcome mat; any lack of clue is easily remedied with patience and time.  J I also sent various suggestions via e-mail to him. I'm doing my part too -M I've done tons of porting over the years, and have a fair bit of appreciationhL for the difficulties involved. The worst is always when you're bootstrappingJ a brand new OS that has no userland tools, that's for sure! In comparison,I VMS porting isn't too bad... and especially enhanced when one can make it3M take advantage of native services. (True for any OS that one does a port to.)e   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 13:14:45 +00100% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auh Subject: JRE.DMP5 Message-ID: <01K43K5JZNOY000PDO@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   H I have just found the following file in SYS0.SYSEXE on my ES40 with VMS  7.2:  4 JRE.DMP;1                     File ID:  (15497,41,0)- Size:       362628/362628     Owner:    [1,1]b" Created:   24-MAY-2001 13:29:59.79& Revised:   24-MAY-2001 13:31:21.37 (1) Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>e Effective: <None specified>w Recording: <None specified>o File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughI File attributes:    Allocation: 362628, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0i$                     No version limitE Record format:      Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 0 bytesl Record attributes:  None RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None  & Total of 1 file, 362628/362628 blocks.    F I have no idea what I was doing at that time, but the machine was not I re-booted that day -- unlikely to be anything of significance, excepting -: that I did have to change my IP address sometime that day.  J The only thing I could think to try to read this with was anal/crash, but  it is not a system dump file.   I Does anyone know where this came from, how to read it and whether I need X it?    TIA@   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,n
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiao   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  F Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most  people,t; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 20:44:00 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h1 Subject: Re: More Compaq blunders I am sad to day , Message-ID: <3B119F4E.3DEC2394@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: K > Probably a prudent course of action. If Capellas is inundated with emailslM > that cause him to think that the VMS constituency is a bunch of zealots and G > whiners (despite the fact that such would not be the intention of thee< > emails) he is unlikely to look favorably on the situation.  J But it is those letters from zealots and whiners to Compaq management thatM forced them to reconsider their policies of letting VMS mature gaciously (eg:i$ VMS on autopilot with no marketing).  J This is yet another example of "Digital" reacting positively when there isM pressure from customers and giving signs that things will get fixed and a fewn, months later, everything is back to normal.  I for one am not surprised.n  E And since Marcello was conviniently moved away from VMS and given theaI difficult job of managing 2 competing products (True64 and VMS), he ca nofK longer favour VMS. It is whomever is now in charge of VMS who must championo
 that product.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:53:55 -0400 ( From: Hamlyn Mootoo <univms@bigfoot.com>C Subject: Re: Unable to Telnet & Rlogin from Solaris/HPUX to OpenVMSv+ Message-ID: <3B114D43.67E5324F@bigfoot.com>w  O When you say "unable", what do you mean? What happens from the HP or Sun boxes;cO does it hang or does it say anything?  Also, to clarify, are you saying you can-N connect to other VMS machines from the HP/Sun machines, or that you can telnetB from the other VMS machines to the ones in question running ECO 2?   HM   Shiv wrote:j   > Gurus, >oN > I'm unable to connect to our VMS servers running DIGITAL TCP/IP Services forP > OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 2 / OpenVMS V7.2-1H1  using Telnet or Rlogin# > over WAN from Solaris/HPUX boxes.e >rN > But Telnet works fine if we connect from WindowsNT/OpenVMS boxes on the same
 > network. >GJ > Also Telnet & Rlogin works fine with servers on the same cluster runningK > DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 1 / OpenVMSt' > V7.2-1H1. Could ECO 2 be the culprit?o >m2 > Any help/insights will be greatly appreciated... >a > TIA, > Shiv > 	 > ---*---y >                       ~\\\~t >                      (`O-O')- >     _________.oOo_____( ^ )____oOo.________h. >     \                                      \/ >      \          Sivakumar Thangavelu        \.0 >       \    (Platform Technologies Group)     \0 >       |--------------------------------------|0 >       |      Oracle Corporation, (IDC)       |0 >       |       Oracle Technology Park         |0 >       |       #3, Bannerghatta Road          |0 >       |      Bangalore-560029, India         |0 >       |--------------------------------------|0 >      /  Phone: +91 (80) 552 8335 x 1056      // >     /Email: Sivakumar.Thangavelu@oracle.com /3. >    /____________.oooO___Oooo.______________/ >                 (   )   (   )1 >                  \ (     ) / >                   \_)   (_/=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:03:24 +0530 , From: Shiv <Sivakumar.Thangavelu@oracle.com>C Subject: Re: Unable to Telnet & Rlogin from Solaris/HPUX to OpenVMSs* Message-ID: <3B11C704.6489E3C0@oracle.com>   HM:a  P >When you say "unable", what do you mean? What happens from the HP or Sun boxes;& >does it hang or does it say anything?T When i try to do a telnet/rlogin, the login prompt doesn't appear and it hangs thereT forever after that. Find below a sample output for a 'telnet' seesion from a solaris box to VMS box(es) inquestionn   sun133:> telnet vmsserv20> Trying 145.27.54.63... Connected to vmsserv20.s Escape character is '^]'.>  ' <No more output.... It just hangs here>i  > >Also, to clarify, are you saying you can connect to other VMS# >machines from the HP/Sun machines,rJ Yes, i can connect to other VMS machines in the same cluster from the same Solaris/HPUX boxes  ? >or that you can telnet from the other VMS machines to the ones  >in question running ECO 2O Yes, this is also happening. I can telnet from other VMS machines to the one in.	 question.    Thanks,  Shiv       Hamlyn Mootoo wrote:  Q > When you say "unable", what do you mean? What happens from the HP or Sun boxes; Q > does it hang or does it say anything?  Also, to clarify, are you saying you caniP > connect to other VMS machines from the HP/Sun machines, or that you can telnetD > from the other VMS machines to the ones in question running ECO 2? >c > HM >f
 > Shiv wrote:  >n
 > > Gurus, > >pP > > I'm unable to connect to our VMS servers running DIGITAL TCP/IP Services forR > > OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 2 / OpenVMS V7.2-1H1  using Telnet or Rlogin% > > over WAN from Solaris/HPUX boxes.c > >eP > > But Telnet works fine if we connect from WindowsNT/OpenVMS boxes on the same > > network. > >,L > > Also Telnet & Rlogin works fine with servers on the same cluster runningM > > DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 1 / OpenVMSu) > > V7.2-1H1. Could ECO 2 be the culprit?o > >e4 > > Any help/insights will be greatly appreciated... > >U > > TIA, > > Shiv > >    ---*---s                       ~\\\~a                      (`O-O')+     _________.oOo_____( ^ )____oOo.________f,     \                                      \-      \          Sivakumar Thangavelu        \ .       \    (Platform Technologies Group)     \.       |--------------------------------------|.       |      Oracle Corporation, (IDC)       |.       |       Oracle Technology Park         |.       |       #3, Bannerghatta Road          |.       |      Bangalore-560029, India         |.       |--------------------------------------|.      /  Phone: +91 (80) 552 8335 x 1056      /-     /Email: Sivakumar.Thangavelu@oracle.com /e,    /____________.oooO___Oooo.______________/                 (   )   (   )y                  \ (     ) /                   \_)   (_/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:05:15 -050010 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>C Subject: RE: Unable to Telnet & Rlogin from Solaris/HPUX to OpenVMS.C Message-ID: <MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHKEMNEFAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>b  L That looks like a filter problem on the target VMS node.  I'd take a look atL the telnet/rlogin service filters, I bet the originating servers are somehow# excluded in the accepted networks..    $ ucx sho service/full telnet  $ ucx sho service/full rlogino       -----Original Message-----3 From: Shiv [mailto:Sivakumar.Thangavelu@oracle.com]p# Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:33 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComrC Subject: Re: Unable to Telnet & Rlogin from Solaris/HPUX to OpenVMSx Importance: High     HM:o  I >When you say "unable", what do you mean? What happens from the HP or Sunn boxes;& >does it hang or does it say anything?H When i try to do a telnet/rlogin, the login prompt doesn't appear and it hangs therelL forever after that. Find below a sample output for a 'telnet' seesion from a solaris  box to VMS box(es) inquestiono   sun133:> telnet vmsserv20  Trying 145.27.54.63... Connected to vmsserv20.o Escape character is '^]'.a  ' <No more output.... It just hangs here>e  > >Also, to clarify, are you saying you can connect to other VMS# >machines from the HP/Sun machines,lJ Yes, i can connect to other VMS machines in the same cluster from the same Solaris/HPUX boxes  ? >or that you can telnet from the other VMS machines to the onesy >in question running ECO 2L Yes, this is also happening. I can telnet from other VMS machines to the one in	 question.b   Thanks,m Shiv       Hamlyn Mootoo wrote:  J > When you say "unable", what do you mean? What happens from the HP or Sun boxes;I > does it hang or does it say anything?  Also, to clarify, are you sayings you caneI > connect to other VMS machines from the HP/Sun machines, or that you cano telnetD > from the other VMS machines to the ones in question running ECO 2? >o > HM >o
 > Shiv wrote:- >-
 > > Gurus, > >-L > > I'm unable to connect to our VMS servers running DIGITAL TCP/IP Services foriK > > OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 2 / OpenVMS V7.2-1H1  using Telnet or- Rlogin% > > over WAN from Solaris/HPUX boxes.e > >oK > > But Telnet works fine if we connect from WindowsNT/OpenVMS boxes on theo same > > network. > >tL > > Also Telnet & Rlogin works fine with servers on the same cluster runningE > > DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 1 /u OpenVMSo) > > V7.2-1H1. Could ECO 2 be the culprit?h > > 4 > > Any help/insights will be greatly appreciated... > >' > > TIA, > > Shiv > >S   ---*---m                       ~\\\~5                      (`O-O')+     _________.oOo_____( ^ )____oOo.________n,     \                                      \-      \          Sivakumar Thangavelu        \ .       \    (Platform Technologies Group)     \.       |--------------------------------------|.       |      Oracle Corporation, (IDC)       |.       |       Oracle Technology Park         |.       |       #3, Bannerghatta Road          |.       |      Bangalore-560029, India         |.       |--------------------------------------|.      /  Phone: +91 (80) 552 8335 x 1056      /-     /Email: Sivakumar.Thangavelu@oracle.com /o,    /____________.oooO___Oooo.______________/                 (   )   (   )                   \ (     ) /                   \_)   (_/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 21:15:56 -0400e% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>M7 Subject: Re: Very odd:  Init/erase is controller-based?o/ Message-ID: <th39m5ra7bbm21@news.supernews.com>n  1 "Scott Vieth" <svieth@wi.rr.com> wrote in message # news:3B0FDECB.C81D430E@wi.rr.com...- > All: >-J > I was using init/erase this week to scrub any useful data off the dozens > F > and dozens of RZ disks that we're going to be retiring this weekend. >   > I hope you did the init/erase AFTER you retired the disks!  :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 17:52:39 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eC Subject: Re: VMS Home Automation (was: Affordable VMS Workstations)a' Message-ID: <3B118537.899BA6AB@fsi.net>M   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3B100CB3.C8E45BF6@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e > 0 > > I can see developing *TRUE* home automation. > > F > > No, I'm not just talking about turning lights on and off by remoteK > > control, or making coffee before you get up (a timer will suffice here)sH > > or cranking up the heat/cooling before you arise or return home fromL > > work (an automatic thermostat will suffice here, within limits), either. > >gL > > I'm talking about sounding an alarm or automatically taking action under > > certain circumstances: > C > There is a starting point (VMS-based) provided by John Covert at:s > G >         http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3064/SDIR.HTMLr  G Nah - still just BSR X10 toys. Could probably be integrated later on toiF expand marketability; however, the safety and energy efficiency issues should (IMHO) take precedence.  ? X10 is still notoriously unreliable, from what I've read/heard.w   -- t David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.293 ************************at someone who aSIq,2,sЭC5ǝ#5q߷K#RlG؟bʦX#Z(ӶreJDx9ޘbCJ&$fѱ&ʔ5Hٸbz/)B5KbFB x	,ԡGј?	%v
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