1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 06 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 618       Contents: Re: Alpha 2100s for free RE: Alpha 2100s for free Re: Alpha 2100s for free Alpha 2100s for free
 Backup tuning  Re: Backup tuning # Re: can't login to VAX on weekends. # Re: can't login to VAX on weekends. # Re: can't login to VAX on weekends. # Re: can't login to VAX on weekends. # Re: can't login to VAX on weekends. # Re: can't login to VAX on weekends.  Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees?$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ RE: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ RE: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking- DECwindows TPU *feature* (clipboard deadlock)  differences in c library Re: differences in c library Re: differences in c libraryD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width7 Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted 7 Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted 7 Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted P Re: How to connect a DS20 to a Fibre  channel SAN switch an that one to a hsg80?P RE: How to connect a DS20 to a Fibre  channel SAN switch an that one to a hsg80?' Java2 Runtime Environment Under OpenVMS + Re: Java2 Runtime Environment Under OpenVMS : Re: Kerberos Client on OpenVMS, CSWS/APACHE, MOD_AUTH_KERB6 Re: Keyboard problems with VMS 7.2 on AlphaStation 200 LDAP SDK for OpenVMS ? Re: LDAP SDK for OpenVMS ? Re: LDAP SDK for OpenVMS ? Re: LDAP SDK for OpenVMS ?1 Microsoft co-founder establishes DEC archive site  Monitoring CPU usage in DCL  Re: Monitoring CPU usage in DCL  Re: Monitoring CPU usage in DCL + network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2 3 Re: New HP-Compaq merger discussion list at Interex  Re: RMS accvio Re: RMS accvio Re: RMS accvio Re: Weird Hobbyist PAK behavior  Re: Weird Hobbyist PAK behavior  Which Disks are Which? Re: Which Disks are Which? RE: Which Disks are Which? Re: Which Disks are Which? Re: Which Disks are Which? RE: Which Disks are Which?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 16:06:00 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> ! Subject: Re: Alpha 2100s for free / Message-ID: <3BE80995.9A29AE99@cableinet.co.uk>    Alan Greig wrote:  > = > On 1 Nov 2001 19:41:20 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill  > Gunshannon) wrote: > C > >In article <20011101154746.91357.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>, 4 > > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:* > >|> Donate both of them to a University. > >|>  > > * > >I'll even volunteer my University.  :-) > F > My former employer (the University of Abertay Dundee) turned off itsG > last VMS Alphaserver (2100) a few months ago. They made no attempt to H > find a new home for it. Instead a member of IT staff was instructed toG > "drill holes" through it to prevent its re-use. No it never contained  > especially sensitive data,   > >bill    B sure, trash the disks if you are really paranoid, but trashing the- rest of the hardware is surely braindamaged?     --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:36:19 +01007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> ! Subject: RE: Alpha 2100s for free O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6982@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>   L The market value of the 1 Gb and the 2 Gb is the same as for the 4 Gb disks.  L If was living in your area I would very willing to pick them up and directly
 sell them.H It's a ideal hobbyist system or test system or training system or backup system.     So only a fool would trash them.         > -----Original Message-----6 > From: RJDurkee@yahoo.com [mailto:RJDurkee@yahoo.com]' > Sent: donderdag 1 november 2001 16:39  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Alpha 2100s for free  >  > E > My company has two 2100 Alphaservers in a cluster that we no longer G > need. There doesn't seem to be much market value for them, so we will F > probably just trash them...SOON. If anyone has a use for this systemE > and is willing to pay packing and shipping charges let me know. The F > system has about 20 1Gb an 2GB disks and HSD contollers. There is no= > tape drive. If you want more information, please call me at  > 810-606-6706. 
 > Rich Durkee  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 16:37:54 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ! Subject: Re: Alpha 2100s for free 8 Message-ID: <2v3gutc5mlvbrlg25o4n8fujbq9l4risa2@4ax.com>  / On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 16:06:00 GMT, Tim Llewellyn & <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:     > C >sure, trash the disks if you are really paranoid, but trashing the . >rest of the hardware is surely braindamaged?   B Regarding my previous employer - you might think so but I couldn't possibly comment :-)  9 The DEC 3000-400 VMS Alpha machine zippy.dct.ac.uk (later E zippy.tay.ac.uk), which from 1993 to 1998 acted as a major JANET NNTP D hub (ANU News) and the main University web server amongst many otherC things, used to sit by my desk FDDI connected and loaded with third E party memory and disks, I had hoped to try and offer something for it 7 when it was retired. However it was thrown in the skip.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:02:22 +0200 From: mauf@uhu.unizar.es Subject: Alpha 2100s for free * Message-ID: <01110619022254@uhu.unizar.es>   tim.llewellyn wrote    Alan Greig wrote:  > = > On 1 Nov 2001 19:41:20 GMT, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill  > Gunshannon) wrote: > C > >In article <20011101154746.91357.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>, 4 > > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:* > >|> Donate both of them to a University. > >|>  > > * > >I'll even volunteer my University.  :-) > F > My former employer (the University of Abertay Dundee) turned off itsG > last VMS Alphaserver (2100) a few months ago. They made no attempt to H > find a new home for it. Instead a member of IT staff was instructed toG > "drill holes" through it to prevent its re-use. No it never contained  > especially sensitive data,   > >bill    B sure, trash the disks if you are really paranoid, but trashing the- rest of the hardware is surely braindamaged?   ____________________    H An afterthought... Is a member of the IT staff really entitled to "drill holes" through an Alphaserver?   Regards    Miguel A. Uson   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:08:55 -00004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Backup tuningB Message-ID: <1005062788.17543.0.nnrp-10.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  ? I've been following the advice in the manuals on tuning backup. - I've increased fillm & channelcnt up to 4096. H On our old 2100A + TZ87, I got no further performance improvement beyond+ 1024 (although it was willing to use more). J Now, on a DS20e + DLT8000, with 2.5G memory & an RA3000, I'm wondering how. far I should go, particularly with channelcnt.J The last change was increasing working set from 800K pagelets to 2M, whichH got some improvement, so now I suspect that fillm (& channelcnt) are theJ limiting factor again (my watchdog which keeps an eye on quota usage notes$ values as low as 8 remaining files).J Should I try doubling it again, or am I likely to see an adverse effect on8 daytime performance (~150 users, 390 processes, no db) ?$ What sort of values do others have ?F I'm getting 7M/s on disks with just a handful of very large files, and0 1.1M/s on identical disks with many small files.  L Cluster size incidentally is 18. Now I've turned off our 7.1 machine I couldE reduce that, which I suspect would help with tuning indexed files for 6 improved lookup performance - any suggestions anyone ?? Or is the link between cluster size & bucket size unimportant ?    Thanks, Chris Sharman    ------------------------------   Date: 6 NOV 2001 17:11:36 GMT 4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: Backup tuning5 Message-ID: <6NOV01.17113602@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   B Be on the alert for PAGEDYN usage when backing up small files with@ large backup quotas. If those files have a large number of ACL'sD (e.g. Pathworks shares) you'll have lots of ACL blocks in paged pool; (use SHOW POOL/PAGE/SUMMARY in SDA to view). Pagedyn can be ! exhausted real fast in this case.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 02:17:17 -0800  From: mpatt@bigfoot.com (Mal) , Subject: Re: can't login to VAX on weekends.= Message-ID: <5d328ddf.0111060217.143a6328@posting.google.com>   n vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) wrote in message news:<8b51ed8.0111050902.2e4a4efc@posting.google.com>...5 > Our Vax has started acting funny since October 27th B > Seems when you try to dial-in on weekends it is asking for a new > password. C > Generally a user is prompted for the Decserver pwd, then a system  > username and pwd.  > G > Now on weekends it is asking for the Decserver pwd using the normal # E > prompt. Once entered a new prompt password> comes up and we can not 8 > get to the username/pwd as no one knows this password. > * > Has anyone ever experienced this before?D > I have checked the decserver and seems it only has a primary not aH > secondary password. I have set the system_password in UAF, but can notA > test until the weekend. Is there somewhere to check to see if a G > date/time for logins is set? Is there a parameter in SYSGEN or SYSMAN E > which is set? Is there perhaps a lexical which could be used to set H > this? I know the welcome.txt is changed by the backup to state "backup= > running please login later", is there something to set like E > logins/inter= which would cause a system password to be required to  > login? > , > Please reply to victor.mendham@emergis.com    B It COULD be that someone has set the terminal server prompt to theB string "Password>" . When VMS first had the option to set your ownF prompt string we set our boss' prompt to "Username:" and then sat backE and watched - he got VERY confused when he was logging in and it gave  us a laugh!    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 03:46:10 -0800 ) From: geoffrey.ive@eskom.co.za (geoffrey) , Subject: Re: can't login to VAX on weekends.= Message-ID: <6f7eb035.0111060346.13ebcdb5@posting.google.com>   n vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) wrote in message news:<8b51ed8.0111050902.2e4a4efc@posting.google.com>...5 > Our Vax has started acting funny since October 27th B > Seems when you try to dial-in on weekends it is asking for a new > password. C > Generally a user is prompted for the Decserver pwd, then a system  > username and pwd.  > G > Now on weekends it is asking for the Decserver pwd using the normal # E > prompt. Once entered a new prompt password> comes up and we can not 8 > get to the username/pwd as no one knows this password.  D To the best of my knowledge, all models of Decserver produced do not> have a date and time feature. To get a Decserver to change itsB functionality or configuration based on days of the week, softwareA being executed from a node running LAT would have to be produced. B Once you have entered your password at the # prompt you would thenC have to type in a connect or set host command to connect to a node, @ before it actually gets connected to the node you should get theE following message Local -010- session 1 to "nodename" established. Do  you get this message? E If you do not you're still at decserver, and the only other password> B prompt I have seen from a decserver is when you issue the SET PRIV command.   * > Has anyone ever experienced this before?D > I have checked the decserver and seems it only has a primary not aH > secondary password. I have set the system_password in UAF, but can notA > test until the weekend. Is there somewhere to check to see if a  > date/time for logins is set?  # In UAF you can see these parameters C You can set up logins based on date and time as well as the source, . example network,batch,local,dialup and remote.  ) >Is there a parameter in SYSGEN or SYSMAN  > which is set?  No 6 >Is there perhaps a lexical which could be used to setH > this? I know the welcome.txt is changed by the backup to state "backup= > running please login later", is there something to set like E > logins/inter= which would cause a system password to be required to  > login? > , > Please reply to victor.mendham@emergis.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:07:52 -0500 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> , Subject: Re: can't login to VAX on weekends.< Message-ID: <howard-DAA52B.08075106112001@enews.newsguy.com>  = In article <6f7eb035.0111060346.13ebcdb5@posting.google.com>, +  geoffrey.ive@eskom.co.za (geoffrey) wrote:   F > To the best of my knowledge, all models of Decserver produced do not@ > have a date and time feature. To get a Decserver to change its  N Or it could be a DECserver look-a-like, such as a LANtronix server, which has  other features.  --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 07:13:15 -0800 * From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham), Subject: Re: can't login to VAX on weekends.; Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0111060713.b137926@posting.google.com>   ) Ok I guess I need to be a little clearer.    This is what has transpired.D Networking didn't know who owned the circuits, so they unplugged theE phone lines and of course the client complained. The phone lines were ? plugged in, but the modems wouldn't connect or even pickup. The " Decserver was triggered or booted.F The modems still wouldn't pickup. Using the last known config, I resetA all the ports to their orig config. The modems then picked up and  logins were normal. E a week later, Networking also replaced 2 flaky mutlitech (kept giving B garbage) modems with 2 US Robotics modems. Since this replacement.' Logins seem to be disabled on weekends.   F The Decserver has 6 ports which have a dedicated service. Each port isD associated with a specific phone number. Normally, when you dial-in,F you get the # prompt. Because these are dedicated ports you do not getF a Local> prompt where you could enter sho service, sho users, etc or cD "servicename" or "nodename". You are directed to a specific node. As shown below.    E #"password" <enter> (After the password is typed we get the node logo 	 to login)   ) *** UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS IS PROHIBITED ***   	 Username:     On weekends we get the following   A   #"password"  <enter> (After we type the password we get another  prompt)    password>    E On weekends we do not get the node logo but get a password prompt and F it does not like the Decserver password, nor the decserver access pwd,E or the decserver maintenance pwd, there doesn't seem to be a timeout. F This only seems to occur from Saturday am to Sunday 6:00 pm, when this' is reset to normal and users can login.    Each port looks as follows.    NODENAME> set h/mop modems7 %CCR-I-CONNEST, connection established to remote system  08-00-2B-0B-C8-B3 0 Press CTRL/\ to disconnect, CTRL/] to send break # 4 DECserver 200 Terminal Server V3.3 (BL39) - LAT V5.1  ' Please type HELP if you need assistance    Enter username> vic    Local> sho port 2   5 Port 2: PORT_2                         Server: MODEMS   ? Character Size:            8           Input Speed:        4800 ? Flow Control:            XON           Output Speed:       4800 ? Parity:                 None           Modem Control:   Enabled   ? Access:                Local           Local Switch:       None0? Backwards Switch:       None           Name:             PORT_2p? Break:                 Local           Session Limit:         1 ? Forwards Switch:        None           Type:               Soft    Dedicated Service: "NODENAME"X   Authorized Groups:   0 (Current)  Groups:   0   Enabled Characteristics:  9 Autobaud,  Autoconnect,  Autoprompt,  Broadcast,  Dialup, F Input Flow Control,  Limited View,  Loss Notification,  Message Codes,8 Output Flow Control,  Password,  Security,  Verification  C The password parameter, means that when a user logins to this port, B they are required to enter the Decserver password, before they areD granted access and they are passed through to the dedicated service.= The Security parameter is used to pass information through toe accounting or audit services.s  F If I remove the password parameter, the password> prompt still appears on weekends.  B I know that each account can be customized to allow logins, duringB primary and secondary days and times. Is there a general parameterB that would affect system access before accounts have logged in and& their own UAF profile controls access?   /victor.mendham@emergis.com   n geoffrey.ive@eskom.co.za (geoffrey) wrote in message news:<6f7eb035.0111060346.13ebcdb5@posting.google.com>...p > vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) wrote in message news:<8b51ed8.0111050902.2e4a4efc@posting.google.com>...6  > Our Vax has started acting funny since October 27thC  > Seems when you try to dial-in on weekends it is asking for a newi  > password.D  > Generally a user is prompted for the Decserver pwd, then a system  > username and pwd.  > eF  > Now on weekends it is asking for the Decserver pwd using the normal #oF  > prompt. Once entered a new prompt password> comes up and we can not9  > get to the username/pwd as no one knows this password.   iF > To the best of my knowledge, all models of Decserver produced do not@ > have a date and time feature. To get a Decserver to change itsD > functionality or configuration based on days of the week, softwareC > being executed from a node running LAT would have to be produced.hD > Once you have entered your password at the # prompt you would thenE > have to type in a connect or set host command to connect to a node,XB > before it actually gets connected to the node you should get theG > following message Local -010- session 1 to "nodename" established. Doi > you get this message?rG > If you do not you're still at decserver, and the only other password>cD > prompt I have seen from a decserver is when you issue the SET PRIV
 > command. >   , > > Has anyone ever experienced this before?F > > I have checked the decserver and seems it only has a primary not aJ > > secondary password. I have set the system_password in UAF, but can notC > > test until the weekend. Is there somewhere to check to see if ac! > > date/time for logins is set? e% > In UAF you can see these parametersiE > You can set up logins based on date and time as well as the source, 0 > example network,batch,local,dialup and remote. > + > >Is there a parameter in SYSGEN or SYSMAN> > > which is set?  No 8 > >Is there perhaps a lexical which could be used to setJ > > this? I know the welcome.txt is changed by the backup to state "backup? > > running please login later", is there something to set like G > > logins/inter= which would cause a system password to be required to 
 > > login? > > . > > Please reply to victor.mendham@emergis.com   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:39:51 +0100 (CET): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>, Subject: Re: can't login to VAX on weekends.J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0111061621110.24192-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  # On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote:e [...] K >+It is possible to setup a hardwrired port to prompt for a system password-H >+prior to giving you the welcome banner and normal username prompt (SETM >+TERM/PERM/SYSTEM_PASSWORD).  Haven't used this in years though. Can one set9K >+LTA0: to require system password so that any inbound lat connections willtJ >+require the VMS system password before being shown the username prompt ?  C  AFAIR a utility where set the proper bit in template was mentioned < here long time ago. The second resolution is with the TTY_*2> bits (check the google search) but be aware setting the properF walues in MODPARAMS.DAT, also that this changes the default for *all* $ terminals and may be not acceptable.A  Problem was discuised here near 1995, but noone start (probably)jB to resolve it on Alpha; Larry D Bohan sends a VAX only MACRO code, check: groups.google.com  for "must match all words":  ++++++++  lta0: template group:comp.os.vms ++++++++: (the resulting address is too long then will not write it)    Regards - Gotfryd   -- gE =====================================================================oF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEn. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================1   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:48:25 +0100 (CET): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>, Subject: Re: can't login to VAX on weekends.J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0111061646430.24192-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  M >+TERM/PERM/SYSTEM_PASSWORD).  Haven't used this in years though. Can one setsK >+LTA0: to require system password so that any inbound lat connections will J >+require the VMS system password before being shown the username prompt ?  4  Really, a update: the VIRTUAL utility allows change7 of the DISCONNECT bit; then minor change is required tod set the SYSPASSWD bit :)    Regards - Gotfryd   -- nE ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================a   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 05:33:24 -08001( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111060533.30ebeca5@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3BE5F76C.8716C057@fsi.net>... > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > ? > > In article <dpeF7.4735$MI.1685953@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, ; > >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:f > > |>= > > |> And Gates, Grove, and McNealy would inherit the earth.t > > |> > > K > > That's not as sure a thing as you might imagine.  Our department which,tI > > other than our Major courses, teaches the mandatory Computer LiteracytK > > courses has recently started discussing alternatives to MS products and J > > wether or not we should consider using things like StarOffice in theseK > > courses.  It was also brought up in the recently mentioned meeting with K > > the U's head of IT if any consideration was being given to changing the L > > administrative standard to something other than MS.  The seeds have been8 > > sown and we are not the only place talking this way. > J > You make my mouth water with such talk. Some others and myself (locally)G > are hedging our bets on the chance that Solaris will see a resurgencebE > and Linux will come into its own in the server space. I'm sorry VMSsI > can't be there as well, but there's that whole "affordability" obstaclee > remaining to be overcome.o > H > I'm too old for the usual Yuletide fantasies, so such thoughts as wellF > as Bob Ceculski's comment in another thread about VMS being sold offI > (hopefully, intact) to someone who will actually *DO* something with itK> > (besides letting it rot on the vine) will be the "visions of. > sugar-plums" dancing in my head this season.  L at least my dreams include the best os on the market ... your dreams of unixN and linux sound more like nightmares to me!  unix?  linux?  security breaches, gray hairs, gag!   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 05:42:53 -0800v( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?r= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111060542.4b70b5b8@posting.google.com>i  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3BE5F76C.8716C057@fsi.net>... > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > ? > > In article <dpeF7.4735$MI.1685953@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,s; > >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:s > > |>= > > |> And Gates, Grove, and McNealy would inherit the earth.- > > |> > > J > You make my mouth water with such talk. Some others and myself (locally)G > are hedging our bets on the chance that Solaris will see a resurgencesE > and Linux will come into its own in the server space. I'm sorry VMSlI > can't be there as well, but there's that whole "affordability" obstacleL > remaining to be overcome.o >   L what affordability issue?  i am tired of people saying how expensive vms is!M if you shop around you can find very good prices on boxes, licenses, anything-K you need ... we just last year bought an alphaserver 1200 brand new with a  L 3 year warranty thru an end of life purchase from a compaq reseller for onlyN $2600 ... this was a few years earlier a $32,000 box ... unused and used boxesO in great condition can be found if you know where to look, vax trade-in license L programs offer %75 off, resellers have licenses to sell cheaper than compaq!N and when you factor in cost of ownership over unix and pc junk, it is not evenL close!  anyone who knows how to operate a pencil and do third grade math canJ figure this one out!  have you looked at ibms and suns prices recently forN their junk?  it is a lot of times higher than vms!  what are you talking about
 expensive?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:46:23 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>y- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinga8 Message-ID: <c3afutsiacnglkef368i2babdrlc1kkc9h@4ax.com>  C On 05 Nov 2001 21:51:39 GMT, "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com>o wrote:  9 >On Weds Oct 24th, Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) wrote:sE >    Carly talks to Aberdeen Group =>Aberdeen Group recommends HP not G >complete VMS port =>     Carly praises Aberdeen Group report => Compaq L >itself files said report with SEC.  What part of     this is hard to figure >out?s > 7 >From Aberdeen Group's perspective, here are the facts:e  # Well, well thanks for the comments.   K >1.  We did write reports on the merger and posted them to the world at ouraG >web site http://www.aberdeen.com/ab_company/freeresearch/hp_compaq.htmeL >2.  We did not talk to Carly first, nor to anyone else in senior managementL >positions at HP or Compaq.  We didn't talk to Carly after publication about
 >this either.-  B My recollection is that Carly said something along the lines (in aF soundbyte from the web - I'm thinking Techweb or something like that):E "Initially all the analysts were very negative but as we've got roundaD to explaining things to them they are  beginning to understand a bitB more. For instance the Aberdeen Group has just produced a positiveC report," It was this quote that set me off looking for the AberdeenfE Group report. I have not been able to track down the quote again as IrF can't find a way to search back these video archives. Still I'm sure IE can find a quote where Carly or Curly say they've been talking to alldB the analysts they can manage regarding the deal. Seems unfortunateD that they hadn't managed to talk to yourselves when you produced the most positive report I've seen!   F >3.  We gave HP and Compaq permission to post our research at internal! >intranet web sites at no charge.oF >4.  We have not received a nickel for this research and analysis from	 >anybody.bG >5.  Compaq and HP are customers of Aberdeen (along with most of the ITlL >industry suppliers), but our revenues with them are not material, nor would6 >we sully our good name in a senseless "pay for play".L >6.  I was surprised to hear that Compaq had filed our reports with the SEC.J >That would seem to violate (3), but, hey, we're talking antitrust lawyers# >here.  The SEC hasn't called us...   F Surprised. I was astonished. If they hadn't filed it I'd have probablyC never found it so easily nor wondered why Compaq picked that one toaF file. They don't seem to have filed any other reports unless Compaq/HP9 senior management were directly involved in the document.e  L >As to the root question, I recommend that concerned VMS users look up theirJ >counterparts who own HP 3000's.  From our vantage point, HP is not givingL >any more support to its own venerable HP 3000 base than it is to the CompaqM >VMS base.  If enough critical customers of either/both platforms make enoughrF >noise and promise to buy enough computers, then the not unintelligent9 >executives at HP will make a sensible business decision.   @ I think here we are coming into agreement. I'm still progressingE purchasing plans for more VMS Alpha systems and just last week gave a F presentation of some of our web enabling and B2B/B2C interface work to9 board members including our CIO and IT Director (we are aa@ multinational US Fortune 500 company). However you have to fightD against comments such as "VMS can't do that" and "didn't Compaq killF Alpha" and "will it run SAP if we decide to migrate". Compaq's actionsE in downplaying VMS and being unable/unwilling to fund a SAP port overeE RDB seriously hinder our ability to propose what even the IT Directora3 calls the "most reliable systems we have ever had".   ? Still I've won more arguments than I've lost and we continue to E develop and run very significant parts of the business on VMS - stillu- over 1/2 billion US Dollars of manufacturing.-  A As to "not unintelligent executives at HP" (I note you didn't saynB Compaq but will resist reading anything into that) you say in yourD report that the Alpha/VMS business together with NSK has contributedA much of Compaq's profits (and DEC before it) in recent years. ThesA Industry Standard business being loss making or  breaking even atyC best. Yet Compaq have downplayed this business and emphasized theirp5 Wintel credentials. Do you have any comments on this?o  ? And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end the ? Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subjectt$ "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".?  F Thanks for clarifying things and we both seem to agree that if we wantA to keep VMS and push it back to the forefront we must not let up. E Perhaps VMS engineering could invite you round for a briefing on justiB what VMS can do today and where they want to take it. You might be pleasantly surprised.      >o >Peter >  >Peter S. Kastnerm/ >Chief Research Officer          (617) 854-5221r >Aberdeen Group, Inc.  >One Boston Place  >Boston, MA  02108 >o >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 06:37:18 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking , Message-ID: <3BE7CB68.D8AE0B7D@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:SA > And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end theiA > Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subjectn& > "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".?    L What if Compaq were to announce the stop of the IA64 port and instead devoteL all engineering resources to a SAP port to VMS (or some other endeavour thatG would bring new modern apps to VMS to grow out of its limited niches) ?c  J Considering Alpha has perhaps another 6-7 years of life into it and that aL port might take 1-2 years, I think that it would make a lot of sense to killF the port, give VMS a infusion of new energy and if that succeeds, then< announce a port later  once IA64 is more than just hypeware.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:36:04 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking 8 Message-ID: <1dlfutcg7a3l5l71ntp7tca00426235v94@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 06:37:18 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:u   >Alan Greig wrote:B >> And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end theB >> Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subject' >> "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".?: >  > M >What if Compaq were to announce the stop of the IA64 port and instead devote M >all engineering resources to a SAP port to VMS (or some other endeavour thateH >would bring new modern apps to VMS to grow out of its limited niches) ?  D Given the prior Alpha announcements I think it would be en extremelyE bad idea to end or delay the Itanium port. I continue to believe thateE Compaq/HP should simultaneously fund a SAP port. I can guarantee that C the combination would provide an incredibly powerful marketing tool > and show that HP/Compaq were serious. HP would then have a SAPF platform which could be clearly differentiated from other bog-standardA Wintel or SAP on Unix offerings. Recall that RDB has won Database D Magazines database of the year on numerous occasions. We run RDB andD native Oracle on VMS as well as Oracle on both HP-UX and NT. It is a? no-brainer that RDB is simpler to use, better thought out, moreoE cluster aware out of the box and more reliable than Oracle. After ally that's what DEC wrote it to be.l  F Plus SAP have just fallen out with Microsoft according to latest pressD reports - they have chosen JAVA based future functionality over .NETF much to Microsoft's annoyance. With Microsoft trying to move away from5 JAVA VMS could soon have better JAVA support than NT.1  9 I could almost guarantee that we would be willing to be atB development/pilot site for such a project timescales permitting...  K >Considering Alpha has perhaps another 6-7 years of life into it and that ap  A It is my strongly held belief that HP will not wish to be selling E state-of-the-art Alpha systems in 7 years time or anything like that. F Major telecoms companies etc who need the fastest VMS systems they canD get their hands on would be forced to Unix or some other platform ifD the raw hardware could not keep up no matter how could the operating
 system is.  M >port might take 1-2 years, I think that it would make a lot of sense to killaG >the port, give VMS a infusion of new energy and if that succeeds, thenn= >announce a port later  once IA64 is more than just hypeware.o  B If I could not at least point to an upcoming IA64 port it would be= even harder for me to argue internally that VMS has a future.l   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:23:34 +0000o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingl) Message-ID: <3BE7E456.8F0FEBEA@127.0.0.1>c   Alan Greig wrote:n > E > On 05 Nov 2001 21:51:39 GMT, "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com>  > wrote:  G > Perhaps VMS engineering could invite you round for a briefing on justnD > what VMS can do today and where they want to take it. You might be > pleasantly surprised.n >  > >Peter S. Kastnere1 > >Chief Research Officer          (617) 854-5221  > >Aberdeen Group, Inc.e > >One Boston Placen > >Boston, MA  02108  E Excellent suggestion Alan, Peter you're less than a 2 hour drive from > Nashua, NH from Boston, and I guarantee you'd find their world; fascinating. Anyone from Compaq sending an invite to Peter?    -- r( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 08:16:26 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingy3 Message-ID: <x2EFyn1LOZGp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3BE7CB68.D8AE0B7D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Alan Greig wrote:0B >> And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end theB >> Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subject' >> "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".?p >  > N > What if Compaq were to announce the stop of the IA64 port and instead devoteN > all engineering resources to a SAP port to VMS (or some other endeavour thatI > would bring new modern apps to VMS to grow out of its limited niches) ?H >    	Wrong tree to bark up.h  > 	In theory (roadmap theory) , DII-COE pieces make its way intoI 	base VMS somewhere out there.  In theory, Unix port to VMS becomes very	sD 	simple.  I take it to be so.  I take it that DII-COE is much betterH 	than Posix stuff from years back.  We know some of the nastier UnixismsB 	have been dealt with (see multiple "fork" discussions in cov over
 	the months).a  @ 	All that to say , much wiser to wait 'til COE pieces show up inE 	VMS to revisit some of these tougher ports as they won't be so toughr 	in a couple years.t   				Robj   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:22:27 -0500:- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>"- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking , Message-ID: <3BE7F223.DA30C227@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:)C > It is my strongly held belief that HP will not wish to be selling=G > state-of-the-art Alpha systems in 7 years time or anything like that.E  F Agree with the above because of your use of "wish".  HP is clearly notI interested in Alpha and VMS, just like Compaq wasn't interested in them. =  N But as long as they generate the profits that subsidize their wintel stuff andM as long as they can generate such profits without advertising, then they willmF continue to make that technology available to the installed user base.  L It is also my opinion that the remaining installed base will want to stay onL Alpha as long as possible, especially if they bother with a migration to EV78 which won't be possible inside their exsiting wildfires.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:50:24 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>- Subject: RE: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking - Message-ID: <0033000040708667000002L072*@MHS>)  8 =0AI was told some time ago that DII-COE on VMS would be
 a two parter-=  = First step would be a revision and updating of the POSIX kit;_D Second step would be full integration of the interfaces into the OS.   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET=* > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:35 AMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET/ > Subject: RE: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinge >g >D7 > In article <3BE7CB68.D8AE0B7D@videotron.ca>, JF MezeiD< > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Alan Greig wrote:D > >> And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end theD > >> Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subject) > >> "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".?  > >s > > = > > What if Compaq were to announce the stop of the IA64 portr > and instead devote; > > all engineering resources to a SAP port to VMS (or somet > other endeavour that9 > > would bring new modern apps to VMS to grow out of itsr > limited niches) ?  > >t >s >      Wrong tree to bark up.t >SD >      In theory (roadmap theory) , DII-COE pieces make its way into= >      base VMS somewhere out there.  In theory, Unix port toh > VMS becomes very >e> >      simple.  I take it to be so.  I take it that DII-COE is
 > much betterg= >      than Posix stuff from years back.  We know some of theS > nastier UnixismsH >      have been dealt with (see multiple "fork" discussions in cov ove= rm >      the months).c >aF >      All that to say , much wiser to wait 'til COE pieces show up in? >      VMS to revisit some of these tougher ports as they won'to
 > be so tough  >      in a couple years.s >  >                     Rob  >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:18:43 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingo, Message-ID: <3BE7FF52.8F3F93B1@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:I >         All that to say , much wiser to wait 'til COE pieces show up iniN >         VMS to revisit some of these tougher ports as they won't be so tough >         in a couple years.  D Would large packages such as SAP really be able to run well in "unixJ emulation" as opposed to being truly tailored to take advantage of the VMS stuff ?   L If they just recompile their unix version without really adding the stuff toL take advantage of clustering, distributed lock manager, file version numbers/ etc, would the package really run well enough ?e  L Assuming that SAP is ported only to Itanium VMS (since you indicate it wouldM likely way for the DII-CEO thing to be ready before porting to VMS), will theFE performance penalty of not being truly VMS-native and running in unixtM emulation on VMS be such that customers would just prefer to run it on a realy unix on the same box ?  I In other words, if the SAP port doesn't get tailored sufficiently to takeyD advantage of VMS' features and doesn't get adapted enough to use VMS1 efficiently, would it really be a good solution ?o  I I realise that the goal of that posix-version-2 is to provide much better G emulation of unix with reasonable performance. But still, how much of a  performance hit will there be ?i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:08:23 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking13 Message-ID: <N3TF7.1311$RL6.33789@news.cpqcorp.net>f  B WILLIAM WEBB wrote in message <0033000040708667000002L072*@MHS>...  6 >I was told some time ago that DII-COE on VMS would be >a two parter-   >n> >First step would be a revision and updating of the POSIX kit;E >Second step would be full integration of the interfaces into the OS.!    C Correct.  Adding native UNIX capabilities to OpenVMS is progressingoK independently of the initial COE product.  IMHO the two most critical partsaI are a native FORK and SELECT capabilities.  But the work done for COE hastH fixed a number of issues, such as UNIX file system and naming semantics.     _Fredt   ------------------------------   Date: 06 Nov 2001 15:25:25 GMT, From: "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingv0 Message-ID: <9s8vd5$675@dispatch.concentric.net>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:c3afutsiacnglkef368i2babdrlc1kkc9h@4ax.com... > C > As to "not unintelligent executives at HP" (I note you didn't saylD > Compaq but will resist reading anything into that) you say in yourF > report that the Alpha/VMS business together with NSK has contributedC > much of Compaq's profits (and DEC before it) in recent years. TheoC > Industry Standard business being loss making or  breaking even at E > best. Yet Compaq have downplayed this business and emphasized theire7 > Wintel credentials. Do you have any comments on this?t  L We didn't mention Compaq executives because they are the acquirees and don'tG have as much say in what happens as the HP execs do (with absolutely no 7 disrespect to new Platforms executive Peter Blackmore).a  F Compaq has lost a lot of money in the last year or two in the industryI standard PC business.  They've made money on Intel-based servers, but thegJ margins have deteriorated there too (read: Dell), but the storage business9 is way up ... it's a constantly changing linear equation.t  H It's a fact that computer companies do not tout their cash-cow installedL bases if for no other reason than legacy is not "new technology" nor does itF necessarily appeal to new customers.  More than 75% (sometimes 95%) ofH marketing dollars go to landing new accounts, not keeping old customers.I And it would be unseemly to remind legacy customers that the profits theyh bring fuel new-product R&D.g   >gA > And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end theoA > Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subject & > "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".?  C The thread I picked up from an October 23rd message I can no longer L retrieve.  Apologize for the mischaracterization, but I did get a discussion started!  J Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.  First,F it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customerK business managers would flinch at.  Second, what's the price/performance onrJ Itanium compared to Alpha -- and when could that be measured?  Third, it'sI actually less likely that application providers would support a subset oflH today's VMS base on Intanium with new ports (e.g., SAP) than on a stable (loyal) VMS base.o  I If I could invest HP's money (ha!), I'd make sure that VMS customers weretK kept happy with a secure Alpha roadmap for the rest of the decade.  If thate< means some modest Alpha improvements, then show me a budget.   > H > Thanks for clarifying things and we both seem to agree that if we wantC > to keep VMS and push it back to the forefront we must not let up. G > Perhaps VMS engineering could invite you round for a briefing on justfD > what VMS can do today and where they want to take it. You might be > pleasantly surprised.u >c  K I doubt I would be surprised.  I worked for DEC in 1987 in marketing (DECtpsI and RDB 3 launch.  TPC founder), so I have a deep and abiding respect foro VMS.   Petera   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:33:05 +0000i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>B- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingu8 Message-ID: <cbvfutcu5bsap6jbp5f3k97hvmv2epd534@4ax.com>  C On 6 Nov 2001 08:16:26 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  wrote:     >aA >	All that to say , much wiser to wait 'til COE pieces show up in F >	VMS to revisit some of these tougher ports as they won't be so tough >	in a couple years.  E I'm well aware of the potential benefits of the DII-COE work and I'veoF put the COE/SAP question directly to various appropriate Compaq folks.E It is my understanding that the COE work is now quite advanced and iteE would seem that *now* might be an appropriate time to consider such aUD SAP project - not 2 or 3 years down the line when perhaps 50% of theE manufacturing business currently running on VMS (but in non VMS "corenE industries" such as ourselves) might have already been forced to moveiE by various forces. A target release date of SAP on VMS two years from C now might swing POs hanging in the balance at the moment.  It looksbC right now as if I am about to lose another European plant (althougheB one of our smallest) to SAP. I can't keep taking hits for ever andD keep the remaining VMS MANMAN systems viable in an ocean of SAP. I'dE just end up centralizing more of our dwindling worldwide VMS servicesCD - which would increase VMS presence locally for a few years but only9 as a prelude to a final phase out perhaps 2-4 years away.h  C We need a clearer planning horizon if I hope to influence corporate E planning to consider VMS as potentially viable in the long term. And,nF believe me, VMS is liked by many of our middle and senior worldwide ITC managers - it isn't just me although I am the most vocal :-) but we() need something more concrete to point to.e >s >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:53:33 +0000,% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>M- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingR8 Message-ID: <801gut4nsoep7mmu1gubh1bsaom7b5obr5@4ax.com>  4 On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:08:23 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:     >tD >Correct.  Adding native UNIX capabilities to OpenVMS is progressingL >independently of the initial COE product.  IMHO the two most critical partsJ >are a native FORK and SELECT capabilities.  But the work done for COE hasI >fixed a number of issues, such as UNIX file system and naming semantics.o  D Now that's something which might interest the Aberdeen Group. And IfF you could also get them up in one of the JSTARS planes (threatening toF drop them over Afghanistan if they don't come round :) that might help+ as well. Let them see VMS in *real* action.f  E And with Microsoft almost certain now to be forced to fully document,hE release and *help* third parties support it's API, if you could add a:F (possibly sandboxed) WINE Windows Emulation Environment as well as the@ COE work, then we might see VMS start to seriously take back the# desktop as IA64 works its way down.v   >  >_Fred >5 >  >M   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 16:23:15 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking 3 Message-ID: <T7UF7.1316$RL6.33634@news.cpqcorp.net>g  ` In article <c3afutsiacnglkef368i2babdrlc1kkc9h@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: :...I'm still progressingAF :purchasing plans for more VMS Alpha systems and just last week gave aG :presentation of some of our web enabling and B2B/B2C interface work ton: :board members including our CIO and IT Director (we are aA :multinational US Fortune 500 company). However you have to fight E :against comments such as "VMS can't do that" and "didn't Compaq killnG :Alpha" and "will it run SAP if we decide to migrate". Compaq's actions F :in downplaying VMS and being unable/unwilling to fund a SAP port overF :RDB seriously hinder our ability to propose what even the IT Director4 :calls the "most reliable systems we have ever had".  G   Alan, if you would prefer, I can ask the local OpenVMS Ambassador to     look into this opportunity.h  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 16:19:23 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingt8 Message-ID: <r23gutgp7t0fisum2kvhh39m47tdehophi@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:18:43 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:s   >hE >Would large packages such as SAP really be able to run well in "unixeK >emulation" as opposed to being truly tailored to take advantage of the VMSe >stuff ? >nM >If they just recompile their unix version without really adding the stuff tomM >take advantage of clustering, distributed lock manager, file version numbersf0 >etc, would the package really run well enough ?  E This side of things would be handled by RDB providing the SQL servicehC to SAP. In ERP systems the underlying database is doing most of thei> work most of the time. You could easily have a SAP port taking= advantage of the COE work but using native RDB as its engine.a  ? SAP already supports Oracle, DB2, SQL Server and other database E engines. At one time I think it *did* support RDB. And modern RDB can-@ be made to present an interface almost identical to Oracle to an< application. For instance we use Oracle's own Developer/2000A application development tools to talk to a back-end RDB database.c Works well.g   -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:47:35 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>- Subject: RE: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingt- Message-ID: <0033000040725747000002L072*@MHS>t  ! =0AFrom your mouth to God's ears.d   WWWebb   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET + > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 11:36 AM,D > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET/ > Subject: RE: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingr >e >o6 > On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:08:23 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"& > <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: >, >c > >sF > >Correct.  Adding native UNIX capabilities to OpenVMS is progressing? > >independently of the initial COE product.  IMHO the two mostp > critical parts; > >are a native FORK and SELECT capabilities.  But the workg > done for COE has9 > >fixed a number of issues, such as UNIX file system and@ > naming semantics.e >jF > Now that's something which might interest the Aberdeen Group. And IfH > you could also get them up in one of the JSTARS planes (threatening t= o H > drop them over Afghanistan if they don't come round :) that might hel= pc- > as well. Let them see VMS in *real* action.u > H > And with Microsoft almost certain now to be forced to fully document,=  H > release and *help* third parties support it's API, if you could add a=  H > (possibly sandboxed) WINE Windows Emulation Environment as well as th= epB > COE work, then we might see VMS start to seriously take back the% > desktop as IA64 works its way down.e >, > >  > >_Fred > >o > >e > >  >m > -- > Alan >=   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:38:59 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingi3 Message-ID: <HoUF7.1318$RL6.33730@news.cpqcorp.net>   K Alan Greig wrote in message <801gut4nsoep7mmu1gubh1bsaom7b5obr5@4ax.com>... 5 >On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:08:23 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge" % ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:- >- >  >>E >>Correct.  Adding native UNIX capabilities to OpenVMS is progressingeG >>independently of the initial COE product.  IMHO the two most critical3 parts.K >>are a native FORK and SELECT capabilities.  But the work done for COE has J >>fixed a number of issues, such as UNIX file system and naming semantics. >rE >Now that's something which might interest the Aberdeen Group. And IfuG >you could also get them up in one of the JSTARS planes (threatening toCG >drop them over Afghanistan if they don't come round :) that might helpo, >as well. Let them see VMS in *real* action. >n    D With the current situation, the plane is off limits (guys with M16's
 guarding it).e  F >And with Microsoft almost certain now to be forced to fully document,F >release and *help* third parties support it's API, if you could add aG >(possibly sandboxed) WINE Windows Emulation Environment as well as the A >COE work, then we might see VMS start to seriously take back the-$ >desktop as IA64 works its way down. >     K I'm not sure any more that Windows emulation is the way.  To my mind, GnomeVL and Star Office might be a better alternative.  But first things first... weD are getting all the X11 infrastructure back up to current revisions.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 10:43:35 -0600e+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinga3 Message-ID: <8p0CULIfa6Zq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3BE7FF52.8F3F93B1@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:J >>         All that to say , much wiser to wait 'til COE pieces show up inO >>         VMS to revisit some of these tougher ports as they won't be so toughc >>         in a couple years.  > F > Would large packages such as SAP really be able to run well in "unixL > emulation" as opposed to being truly tailored to take advantage of the VMS	 > stuff ?e >   > 	Absolutely... these are native system calls, not emulation.    " 	SAP and and/or large DBs do this:   		1)  Read blockse 		2)  Write blocks   	That is a simplification.  F 	Much of the Read and Writing is a no brainer regardless of OS.  WhileD 	folks have been real busy on the software side, the storage pictureA 	has not been static.  Today , if you are doing large DBs you area4 	most likely using one of the following for storage:   			1)  Compaq StorageWorks
 			2)  HDS
 			3)  EMC
 			4)  IBM
 			5)  Sun2 			6)  Xiotech's Magnitude   (good little product)  E 	The picture is changing even as we speak.  Compaq's HSV is a killer.sB 	Absolutely grand product.  I encourage everyone to read up a bit:  A http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/enterprise/index.htmli   	Tech Overview:E  W ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/whitepapers/Storage_VirtualizationWP.pdfs  ? 	All this to say, blocks are getting faster to read and just as B 	fast to write (writeback cache has been catching writes for a few) 	years, nothing new under the sun there).o  @ 	With Compaq's product and Xiotech's, Virtualization is shining.D 	That RAID1 you wish to create could be spread across 100+ drives in? 	Compaq's product and 64 drives in Xiotechs.  Say you had a DB iA 	environment (200 Gig DB).  It could be a single RAID1 that wouldnC 	push 17000 I/Os per second.  No problem.  At 4K I/O size you woulds@ 	be pushing 66 MByte/sec and a single RAID1 could be the home of> 	your DB spread across 100 drives.  Many variations on this...  N > If they just recompile their unix version without really adding the stuff toN > take advantage of clustering, distributed lock manager, file version numbers1 > etc, would the package really run well enough ?  >   B 	A lot of these products are pretty stupid.  They support a broken@ 	version of clustering, whereby you have this monster server andA 	a hotstandby... I can't speak for SAP (never used it) , but I do ? 	know of a very large application that I was surprised to learnl 	works this way.  N > Assuming that SAP is ported only to Itanium VMS (since you indicate it wouldO > likely way for the DII-CEO thing to be ready before porting to VMS), will theaG > performance penalty of not being truly VMS-native and running in unix O > emulation on VMS be such that customers would just prefer to run it on a real  > unix on the same box ? >    	Find us a performance penalty.h  K > In other words, if the SAP port doesn't get tailored sufficiently to takeaF > advantage of VMS' features and doesn't get adapted enough to use VMS3 > efficiently, would it really be a good solution ?  >   = 	They don't need VMS feature set.   They have to support many E 	Unixes and a guess would be they are using lowest common denominatorIA 	development strategy... i.e. don't use system specific bells and-E 	whistles.  Oracle, with RAC is going in the opposite direction.. but E 	keep in mind Oracle rolls their own DLM and now intend to roll their D 	own cluster filesystem (if I get that wrong, please clarify... that 	is from memory).f  K > I realise that the goal of that posix-version-2 is to provide much better I > emulation of unix with reasonable performance. But still, how much of a ! > performance hit will there be ?d  @ 	If you are reading and writing blocks, I can help you mask that? 	"hit" with storage.  As will many others.  Not a problem.  Youe? 	would be hard-pressed to find a performance hit (assuming yourg? 	application isn't brain dead and you are performing 100 forks i= 	a second, sure there would probably be a heavier fork in VMSl@ 	than Unix.  But again, an application written that poorly isn't 	the norm).u   				Robl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:04:38 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>s- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingE3 Message-ID: <KMUF7.1320$RL6.33703@news.cpqcorp.net>r  F Peter Kastner wrote in message <9s8vd5$675@dispatch.concentric.net>... >>B >> And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end theB >> Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subject' >> "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".?d >tD >The thread I picked up from an October 23rd message I can no longerB >retrieve.  Apologize for the mischaracterization, but I did get a
 discussion	 >started!m >yK >Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.  First, G >it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customeroL >business managers would flinch at.  Second, what's the price/performance onK >Itanium compared to Alpha -- and when could that be measured?  Third, it'siJ >actually less likely that application providers would support a subset ofI >today's VMS base on Intanium with new ports (e.g., SAP) than on a stable  >(loyal) VMS base. >kJ >If I could invest HP's money (ha!), I'd make sure that VMS customers wereL >kept happy with a secure Alpha roadmap for the rest of the decade.  If that= >means some modest Alpha improvements, then show me a budget.r >m    L I can't (and don't) speak for Compaq or OpenVMS (nor can I comment at-all on any merger related issues)...   I But I do believe that the strategy that OpenVMS is currently on will keep F our Alpha customers happy, and we will deliver the Alpha EV6x/EV7/EV79L roadmap.  It also provides a path to future hardware (the Itanium family) so: that there is life for VMS *after* the Alpha roadmap ends.  K I believe that we can do this while continuing to provide new features, and I performance enhancements on Alpha, that will also apply to Itanium.  ThatwJ unlike the "split" that exists now between the VAX and Alpha, that we willI be able to provide ongoing enhancements to both platforms by the use of a E single common source pool.  The port to Itanium will *not* destablizedI OpenVMS, and once complete nearly all software written for OpenVMS on oneyJ architecture should simply compile and work on the other (exceptions beingH things that know specifics about the underlying architecture - something that is not common).  J I also believe that the "migration" process between Alpha and Itanium willL be trivial in comparison to VAX to Alpha.  While *any* migration needs to beI approached with some caution, we will make it as painless as possible forkK customers to do, while not "forcing" them to abandon their Alphas now or insL the future.  See the recent satisfaction guarantees we recently announced in connection with Itanium.  I My personal experience with presenting our plans to several large defenseaL customers was that they were satisfied with our plans.  Mostly the questionsE were as to timing, so they could decide between planning for Alpha ofs+ Itanuim platforms on their future projects.2  E Not porting to Itanium places OpenVMS into truly a legacy/maintenanceaJ position.  And while there are some who already place us there today - youJ might be suprised about the new and old business that we are in, which are truly *not* legacy.l  J I have yet to hear from anyone here in OpenVMS engineering who thinks that0 we can't deliver on the plans that are in place.   _Fredt   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 17:11:23 GMTe) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)i- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking ' Message-ID: <9s95jr$isd$1@joe.rice.edu>0  & Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) wrote: :nG : And with Microsoft almost certain now to be forced to fully document,h5 : release and *help* third parties support it's API, t :e Not according to:A  4    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/22647.htmlB    MS snags crucial authentication, DRM opt-outs in DoJ settlement  F   "...The biggest omission you'll notice, when comparing the agreementI    against Judge Jackson's proposed behavioral remedies is the absence ofiH    technical disclosure practice. The original conduct obliged MicrosoftH    to disclose APIs, and did so in some detail. It outlined the creationH    of a neutral clean room: an independent verification facility staffedF    by both industry opponents and Microsoft representatives, to ensureG    that compatibility issues were solved within a fixed time period. Or.    else.  I    In today's agreement, not only is Redmond not obliged to disclose APIssG    to third parties, it's secured an explicit guarantee that it doesn'tiF    have to. The small print in Section J 1 of the 'Prohibited Conduct'    notes:- ..    "No provision of this Final Judgment shall:  I    1.Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: A    (a) portions of APIs or Documentation or portions or layers of H    Communications Protocols the disclosure of which would compromise theC    security of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digitalsE    rights management, encryption or authentication systems, including @    without limitation, keys, authorization tokens or enforcement    criteria;@    or (b) any API, interface or other information related to anyH    Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do so by a governmental%    agency of competent jurisdiction."oI    It's the most significant part of the entire agreement document, as ittI    describes oversight of Microsoft's future conduct in the most criticalLG    areas of web services (authentication) and multimedia content (DRM).oE    It also represents an end-run around the AntiTrust Laws: MicrosoftpH    only needs to claim that its security is being compromised to get theD    authority of a Government policeman. In its own way, this section.    institutionalizes corporate malfeasance..."  8 Here's a review of the "caress on the wrist" settlement:  3    http://www.ccianet.org/ms_antitrust/sell_out.htm11    Analysis Of a Sell-Out: The DOJ-Microsoft Deal     4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:50:48 -050032 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingrL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0611011250480001@user-2ivecan.dialup.mindspring.com>  @ In article <9s8vd5$675@dispatch.concentric.net>, "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com> wrote:u    J > > Thanks for clarifying things and we both seem to agree that if we wantE > > to keep VMS and push it back to the forefront we must not let up.tI > > Perhaps VMS engineering could invite you round for a briefing on justgF > > what VMS can do today and where they want to take it. You might be > > pleasantly surprised.R > >r > M > I doubt I would be surprised.  I worked for DEC in 1987 in marketing (DECtplK > and RDB 3 launch.  TPC founder), so I have a deep and abiding respect fore > VMS.    J Do you mean you're making recommendations about a product you've been awayF from for 14 years?  I'm sure you've had some contact since 1987, but a8 visit to bring you up-to-date would probably be helpful.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comi   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 11:52:00 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)-- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingo3 Message-ID: <hi9cwi36wLf0@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  k In article <KMUF7.1320$RL6.33703@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:oH > Peter Kastner wrote in message <9s8vd5$675@dispatch.concentric.net>... >>>cC >>> And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end the C >>> Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subject ( >>> "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".? >>E >>The thread I picked up from an October 23rd message I can no longertC >>retrieve.  Apologize for the mischaracterization, but I did get as > discussion
 >>started! >>L >>Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.  First,H >>it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customerM >>business managers would flinch at.  Second, what's the price/performance onrL >>Itanium compared to Alpha -- and when could that be measured?  Third, it'sK >>actually less likely that application providers would support a subset ofnJ >>today's VMS base on Intanium with new ports (e.g., SAP) than on a stable >>(loyal) VMS base.i >>   Peter,  @ 	To jump in on what you wrote here (I actually planned a lengthy; 	response to shoot holes in your HP/MPE comparison, more on  	that later)... Few things:-  % 	To retrive other messages, click on:    			www.deja.com2   		click on "Advanced Search"  A 	A top-notch analyst like yourself should try to come up to speed  	on technique.  D 	Second.. and more to the chase.  In other trade rag writings (can'tB 	source it, but someone with your resources should be able to findB 	it), a writer points out that VMS engineering has 30-35 engineers, 	dedicated to the port.  So while you state:    K "Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.  First,nF it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customer# business managers would flinch at.",  G 	Strike 1 on that, see above.  Just as importantly, it seems as if you r@ 	are making that judgement in a vacuum.  Have you even contactedA 	VMS engineering to hear from the horses mouth just how difficultiA 	/expensive this migration is?  Someone actually involved in the ,F 	port (Fred Kleinsorge) points out the ease of the port.  It seems as H 	if you haven't explored the cost.  Do you make all your judgements and  	analysis in a vacuum?    3 	Further, another of your strikes against the port:g  O "Second, what's the price/performance on Itanium compared to Alpha -- and when M could that be measured?"  @ 	By this reasoning, no one should be porting as X86 outperforms @ 	Itanium and will for some time.  SGI shouldn't port Irix *yet*,C 	should they?  And why in the world is HP porting?  Are you fishingoF 	for a future crossover point when the actual migration Alpha->ItaniumD 	occurs or makes sense?  We speculate on that too.  Why not contact A 	Compaq and get their read.  To suggest the port shouldn't occur -F 	*because* of performance issues is laughable as FRV of Itanium sucks F 	regarding performance and it may take 1-2 more generations to come up< 	to RISC.  The former Alpha engineers will surely help that,; 	why not contact Intel to find out what their outlook is onh 	Itanium performance futures.   M "Third, it's actually less likely that application providers would support a >L subset of today's VMS base on Intanium with new ports (e.g., SAP) than on a  stable (loyal) VMS base."n  D 	Okay.. whatever that means.  I think you are stating they will lose> 	ISVs going to Itanium.  They may actually gain some.  Why not8 	contact Compaq and find out their read on that one too.  B 	All and all, I would say your reasons for cancelling the port areB 	very poor and not supported by Compaq in their public statements.@ 	Your Weakest Link is the whole cost issue.  Not well researched 	at all there.    
 			Take care,t  
 				Rob Young      cc:  kastner@aberdeen.com*   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:09:48 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingl* Message-ID: <3BE8276C.608CCB5A@virgin.net>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:f  H >   Alan, if you would prefer, I can ask the local OpenVMS Ambassador to >   look into this opportunity.e >g  c Thanks Hoff but you'll be pleased to hear he's well aware of what we hope to do and has always beenec very helpful. Also the senior guy at our preferred channel partner is a former DEC colleague of thel^ local VMS ambassador (Dave Foddy btw) and the two have discussed a tentative disaster tolerantd solution. I've also discussed things with one or two ex VMS engineering types who happen to be local to us these days.b  a All I can really do now is keep fingers crossed but even if the main project does not go ahead wer* still have some existing development work. --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:19:30 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingi* Message-ID: <3BE829B2.3060B964@virgin.net>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  F > With the current situation, the plane is off limits (guys with M16's > guarding it)." >x  O Hmm... could advising the termination of a current key defence operating systemtK be considered treason. You're right - better not let them near the Aberdeen 
 Group :-) :-)o  M And, if I recall correctly, the US army executed Bill Gates in the South Parkl movie.  M > I'm not sure any more that Windows emulation is the way.  To my mind, GnomelN > and Star Office might be a better alternative.  But first things first... weF > are getting all the X11 infrastructure back up to current revisions.  O I agree. Microsoft has been at least slowed by all the legal action surrounding K them and existing alternatives could always 'grow up' on VMS with the rightcM help. But it would still be nice if VMS could one day run MS apps better thanA  NT. If resources could be found.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 04:55:16 -0500x- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c6 Subject: DECwindows TPU *feature* (clipboard deadlock), Message-ID: <3BE7B381.D6B4903D@videotron.ca>  4 Had two instance of TPU in decwindows mode running.   J each has a SET CLIPBOARD somewhere in there to share the cut/past buffers.  N One window was busy executing a learned sequence that was selecting a bunch ofI text and cutting it (with a repeat command to delete about 10,000 lines).mJ Window was iconised to reduce IO overhead fort this sequence which weas to take some time on a MV3100.i  N Meanwhile, I am editing source code for a program on another window. Editor isH sluggish, but I figured it was due to the other TPU instance huffing and  puffing with its REPEAT command.  G But at one point, doing a simple cut/paste just stops. So I re-open thesM iconised editor to find that it had stopped with about 600 lines to go. I tryuM to manually select/cut the remaining text and got a message akin to clibboardl
 being locked.   I I realised at that point what was happening (both processes competing forn+ control of the clipboard at the same time).     J I was able to write that buffer and quit gracefully. But by that time, theL previously obscured TPU window with my source code remained blank, not eventN the menus such as File, Edit etc appeared, but the major window functions such as resizing worked.f  M The process was consuming minimum amounts of CPU at regular intervals, but no M IO, even if I typed inside the window. The process was really stuck.  I wouldbN have assumed that when I ended the other TPU session, it would have cleared upA any deadlock situations with the clipboard. But it didn't happen.   N I had to STOP/ID the process (which worked, I was fearing it would go into the dreaded RWAST).t     This is VMS 7.2 (vax).    M So now I will remember to disable shared clipboard whenever doing long repeatS7 commands in one window while working on another window.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:37:41 +0100, From: "Schild Niklaus" <schin@hta-bi.bfh.ch>! Subject: differences in c libraryi* Message-ID: <9s8lim$mkb$1@rex.ip-plus.net>  # I hope that I'm not off-topic here.aG I am programming in C on OpenVMS and I should should fix some bugs in agL function which uses localtime() and mktime(). They use a struct called tm. IL seems that the this structure has changed since the code was written. I workH now on OpenVMS 7.3 but I don't know what the older version was. The onlyK documentation I found dates back to 1995 (Run-Time Library Reference Manual"L for OpenVMS Systems). My problem is that this struct is nowhere described inH the new "Compaq C Run-Time Library Reference Manual for OpenVMS Systems"@ (online). Does someone know some online docus about this struct?   thanks Nikb   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:01:02 +0100< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>% Subject: Re: differences in c library 5 Message-ID: <9s8muc$11h7hh$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>r   Schild Niklaus wrote...:I > I am programming in C on OpenVMS and I should should fix some bugs in acL > function which uses localtime() and mktime(). They use a struct called tm.I > I seems that the this structure has changed since the code was written.d  K There is a non-ANSI extension to struct tm containing timezone information.o   > I work now on OpenVMS 7.3.  I This doesn't tell anything about the C compiler version. Do a $CC/VERSION 	 for that.   7 > but I don't know what the older version was. The onlycF > documentation I found dates back to 1995 (Run-Time Library ReferenceH > Manual for OpenVMS Systems). My problem is that this struct is nowhereF > described in the new "Compaq C Run-Time Library Reference Manual forF > OpenVMS Systems" (online). Does someone know some online docus about > this struct?    * It's described in the localtime() entry atI http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/5763p034.htm#localtime_routineI  F You can also look into the local header files. If a reference copy has$ been installed with the compiler, do  = $ EDIT/READ SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]TIME.Hr  2 or extract time.h from the C RTL text library with  @ $ LIBRARY/EXTRACT=TIME/OUTPUT=TIME.H SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$RTLDEF.TLB   You'll then seen   struct tm {o;    int tm_sec;      /* seconds after the minute [0, 61]  */t;    int tm_min;      /* minutes after the hour [0, 59]    */n;    int tm_hour;     /* hours since midnight [0, 23]      */d;    int tm_mday;     /* day of the month [1, 31]          */r;    int tm_mon;      /* months since January [0, 11]      */t;    int tm_year;     /* years since 1900                  */e;    int tm_wday;     /* days since Sunday [0, 6]          */t;    int tm_yday;     /* days since January 1 [0, 365]     */ ;    int tm_isdst;    /* Daylight Saving Time flag         */b  A #if __CRTL_VER >= 70000000 && !defined _ANSI_C_SOURCE && !definedh _DECC_V4_SOURCE   ;    long tm_gmtoff;  /* offset from UTC in seconds        */t;    char *tm_zone;   /* timezone abbreviation             */e   #endif };     Hope it helps,   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.decJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:05:36 +0100e= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>r% Subject: Re: differences in c librarya) Message-ID: <3BE7E020.35085B11@dummy.com>S  $ On my system (VMS 7.2-1, C 6.0-001),. this struct is in time.h and looks like this :   struct tm { ;    int tm_sec;      /* seconds after the minute [0, 61]  */a;    int tm_min;      /* minutes after the hour [0, 59]    */t;    int tm_hour;     /* hours since midnight [0, 23]      */w;    int tm_mday;     /* day of the month [1, 31]          */ ;    int tm_mon;      /* months since January [0, 11]      */y;    int tm_year;     /* years since 1900                  */h;    int tm_wday;     /* days since Sunday [0, 6]          */ ;    int tm_yday;     /* days since January 1 [0, 365]     */t;    int tm_isdst;    /* Daylight Saving Time flag         */e   Have you checked your time.h ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Schild Niklaus wrote:e > % > I hope that I'm not off-topic here.eI > I am programming in C on OpenVMS and I should should fix some bugs in ajN > function which uses localtime() and mktime(). They use a struct called tm. IN > seems that the this structure has changed since the code was written. I workJ > now on OpenVMS 7.3 but I don't know what the older version was. The onlyM > documentation I found dates back to 1995 (Run-Time Library Reference ManualoN > for OpenVMS Systems). My problem is that this struct is nowhere described inJ > the new "Compaq C Run-Time Library Reference Manual for OpenVMS Systems"B > (online). Does someone know some online docus about this struct? >  > thanks > Nik    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:20:04 +0000t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>M Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widtht) Message-ID: <3BE7B954.7CF664EF@127.0.0.1>p   Tom Linden wrote: L > > I just tried my latest bash. I typed a very long command that wrapped to  e, > In Bash, tabs are normally auto-completion  . bash is also a colloquialism for 'having a go'  8 when I was at school it also meant physical retribution.  = it also means a get-together or party where most carbon basedJA participants will be suffering from the after effects of alcohol,h5 although alcohol is not compulsory for having a bash.o  B The Bourne Again SHell of which you speak perhaps was put together6 during one or a combination of all three of the above. -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:41:49 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o@ Subject: Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted; Message-ID: <01KADPWKKI9890UTW5@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  0 > > > -Something for web development (PHP, Perl) > > L > > DCL, Fortran.  Perl is often used for web development, but is there any I > > intrinsic advantage to using perl as opposed to, say, DCL or Fortran?s > D > 1.) DCL and FORTRAN do not have huge numbers of free plug-ins for @ > parsing, manipulating, and creating HTML, XML, and all of the H > sublanguages of the web such as the stylesheet languages CSS and XSLT.  G OK.  I was thinking more of code which is executed as a script etc.  I tE know that lots of folks program such things in DCL and, yes, Fortran.i  I > 3.) DCL and FORTRAN do not have Unicode capabilities or other built-in hJ > facilities for manipulating and serving up text that is not 7-bit ASCII I > (well, except for the EBCDIC calls in the RTL).  How many web browsers  H > do you think there are that know what to do with the 128-255 range of & > the DEC Multinational Character Set?  F Actually, the next (2002) Fortran standard will have extended support  for other character sets.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:00:25 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r@ Subject: Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted8 Message-ID: <l2dfut0p5dvba16devnquvbv4aooeqqu64@4ax.com>  8 On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 17:31:32 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:i  K >> As a programmer, I think we need to know not just several languages, buta >> several types of languages:   >> i0 >> -At least one scripting language (DCL, Batch) >b >DCL.l >e- >> -Something for web development (PHP, Perl)i >(I >DCL, Fortran.  Perl is often used for web development, but is there any pF >intrinsic advantage to using perl as opposed to, say, DCL or Fortran?  C Hey we've recently web-enabled some Fortran. Glad to know we're notc. the only ones doing HTML in FORMAT statements!   >> -A 4GL (SQL)b >  >OKp >.3 >> -A quick and dirty language (Java, Visual Basic)i >  >DCL?- >-E >> -A Big-guns language (something an OS could be written in - C/C++)n >p	 >Fortran?    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:03:27 +0000@% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e@ Subject: Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted8 Message-ID: <e7dfut8tod5oi94k6icu0p675n4d9ejpp8@4ax.com>  4 On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:09:10 -0600, "Craig A. Berry"3 <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote:h  C >5.) DCL has no database interfaces.  FORTRAN, I assume, still has rG >embedded SQL available for Rdb and Oracle, but probably can't talk to IF >more than one vendor's database using the same interface in the same 	 >program.r  D Well with the use of DBI (Database Integrator), Transparent Gateway,E SQL/Net, Attunity Connect etc you can talk to virtually anything from  a VMS Fortran program.     -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 05:30:26 -0800  From: richv@mail4u.nl (Rich)Y Subject: Re: How to connect a DS20 to a Fibre  channel SAN switch an that one to a hsg80?i= Message-ID: <a38c070e.0111060530.481100ce@posting.google.com>l  B Ok, Ok let me clarrify something, i do know how to configure a hsg@ controller, i did than on a hsz in the past and it can't be thatF difficult. I was just wondering what i have to do first het SAN or the HSG.  = O, the backup will be included in oure normal backup scripts..        7 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message wN news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4D562B5@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>... > Rich,r > ? > As previous replies stated, if you do not have any experiencehJ > connectiing a host system (on any platform) to a SAN, it would likely beJ > a good idea to contract someone for a few days of to assist you with theA > initial setup, configuration, tuning and backup considerations.t > G > More additional information specific to OpenVMS and SANs can be foundF > at: 8 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/index.html > H > Reference Table 1 at the end of the page for updated VMS configuration
 > doc's .. > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantj > Compaq Canada Corp.H > Professional ServicesV > Voice: 613-592-4660f > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----% > From: Rich [mailto:richv@mail4u.nl] ! > Sent: November 2, 2001 10:51 AMt > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComxJ > Subject: How to connect a DS20 to a Fibre channel SAN switch an that one > to a hsg80?? >  > 	 > Hi all,t > G > I recieved some beautifull equipment over here, an Alpha server DS20,cG > a hsg80 including 256Mb cache and a fibrechannel San. I do now how tooC > connect the hsg to the server. But i haven't a single clue how to 1 > connect the SAN between them. Can anybody help?o >  > Youre help is apriciated,s >  > Rich   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:03:16 +01007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>nY Subject: RE: How to connect a DS20 to a Fibre  channel SAN switch an that one to a hsg80?cO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6979@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>g   You need a FC switch,  install a patch, e/ insert the world wide id on the command prompt, 4 configure the hsg controller (that is the easy part)  0 If you need more help in dutch email me privaty.   					e   Jeroen van Dijkd Uitwijkspecialists Business Continuityi Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nl>  " Getronics Infrastructure Solutions Botter 15-90 Postbus 2228 8203 AE  Lelystad  Tel  : +31 (0)320 266314 Fax:  +31 (0)320 266219.      n   > -----Original Message-----0 > From: richv@mail4u.nl [mailto:richv@mail4u.nl]% > Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2001 14:30d > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como< > Subject: Re: How to connect a DS20 to a Fibre channel SAN  > switch an that > one to a hsg80?? >  > D > Ok, Ok let me clarrify something, i do know how to configure a hsgB > controller, i did than on a hsz in the past and it can't be thatH > difficult. I was just wondering what i have to do first het SAN or the > HSG. > ? > O, the backup will be included in oure normal backup scripts.i >  >  >  > 9 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message E@ > news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4D562B5@kaoexc01.americas > .cpqcorp.net>...	 > > Rich,e > > A > > As previous replies stated, if you do not have any experiencen= > > connectiing a host system (on any platform) to a SAN, it e > would likely be @ > > a good idea to contract someone for a few days of to assist  > you with theC > > initial setup, configuration, tuning and backup considerations.w > > = > > More additional information specific to OpenVMS and SANs   > can be found > > at:s: > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/fibre/index.html > > = > > Reference Table 1 at the end of the page for updated VMS r > configuration  > > doc's .. > >  > > Regards, > >  > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultantr > > Compaq Canada Corp.- > > Professional Services  > > Voice: 613-592-46601 > > Fax  :  819-772-7036  > > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com > >  > >  > > -----Original Message-----' > > From: Rich [mailto:richv@mail4u.nl]># > > Sent: November 2, 2001 10:51 AMt > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : > > Subject: How to connect a DS20 to a Fibre channel SAN  > switch an that one > > to a hsg80?? > >  > >  > > Hi all,i > > = > > I recieved some beautifull equipment over here, an Alpha   > server DS20,? > > a hsg80 including 256Mb cache and a fibrechannel San. I do c > now how toE > > connect the hsg to the server. But i haven't a single clue how tou3 > > connect the SAN between them. Can anybody help?f > >  > > Youre help is apriciated,u > >  > > Rich >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 02:57:21 -0800e* From: nick.holder@iptest.com (Nick Holder)0 Subject: Java2 Runtime Environment Under OpenVMS= Message-ID: <16493195.0111060257.6136a18f@posting.google.com>t  D I apposogise in advance for this newbie question (but then again - IF am one), but I am having trouble with running a java application under Openvms.  D So far we have the app running on Windows and Linux but no joy under openVMS.  E I suspect that I have not installed java correctly as each time I logbF in and ask java for its version it keeps defaulting to the old versionE that comes with 7.2-1 and I have to re-run the install file for it toD" report the correct version number.  C Does anyone have a SIMPLE - Idiot's guide to installing the JRE and  running Java apps?  B Reading Compaq's documentation I just get a headache as most of it goes way over my head :-)i   Cheers in advanceh   Nick   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:26:55 +0200' From: "Gabriel Sterk" <gabi@aipm.co.il>a4 Subject: Re: Java2 Runtime Environment Under OpenVMS2 Message-ID: <000b01c166be$533842e0$2c46bf10@manai>  J Seems that you should cancel the context of the Java version you're in by:  ) $ @sys$common:[java]java$118_cancel_setupf  C and then set up the context of the version you want to be in, like:   2 $ @sys$common:[java$122.com]java$122_setup  [fast] or2 $ @sys$common:[java$130.com]java$130_setup  [fast]   Hope this helps,  
 Gabriel Sterko  O P.s.  I would also move all 'setup' & 'cancel'  .com files to a common dir. for  convenience.     -----Original Message-----1 From: Nick Holder [mailto:nick.holder@iptest.com]u) Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 12:57 PMu To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp0 Subject: Java2 Runtime Environment Under OpenVMS    D I apposogise in advance for this newbie question (but then again - IF am one), but I am having trouble with running a java application under Openvms.  D So far we have the app running on Windows and Linux but no joy under openVMS.  E I suspect that I have not installed java correctly as each time I logdF in and ask java for its version it keeps defaulting to the old versionE that comes with 7.2-1 and I have to re-run the install file for it to " report the correct version number.  C Does anyone have a SIMPLE - Idiot's guide to installing the JRE andi running Java apps?  B Reading Compaq's documentation I just get a headache as most of it goes way over my head :-)l   Cheers in advance-   Nick   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:43:56 -0500+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com>eC Subject: Re: Kerberos Client on OpenVMS, CSWS/APACHE, MOD_AUTH_KERBs3 Message-ID: <_NRF7.1308$RL6.33405@news.cpqcorp.net>   + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messaget% news:9s6mqe$g60$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...eB > In article <z3xF7.1270$RL6.32499@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rick Barry"  <barry@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > >oI > >>>> How can I find information concerning the porting our applicationsM" > >to Kerberos authentication? <<< > >t6 > >The MIT Kerberos API documentation can be found in: > >R > >krb$root:[doc]library.pdf > >"
 > >Rick Barrys > >OpenVMS Engineering > >Compaq Computer Corporation
 > >Nashua, NH- > >- > >- >-L > I found the pdf files in the VMS Kerberos distribution impossible to read.L > Looked like they had been transferred along with the .ps files using ASCIIE > mode ftp at some point. PDF files need transferring in binary mode.s >o) > I have already reported this to Compaq.a >I > David Webb > VMS and unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  F I'll follow this up with the Kerberos/OpenVMS team here. Sorry for the glitch.e  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS Engineeringh Compaq Computer Corporationo
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:15:06 +01002 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>? Subject: Re: Keyboard problems with VMS 7.2 on AlphaStation 200 G Message-ID: <3be82708$0$23020$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>i  F "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag- news:XfzF7.1281$RL6.32605@news.cpqcorp.net...oL > Both VMS and Tru64 put the keyboard into scanset 3 mode, and program a fewK > other changes.  This gets us up/down transitions without having to decode I > the crap the KB does in it's default mode (that is, X11 handles all the3E > shift/lock/ctrl/etc keys itself, we don't want "help" from the KB).e >IF > So.  When you stick a KB switch in front of it... you can get really strangeOK > behavior.   Especially if you are trying to switch between a PC and a VMSR1 > system.  Each wants to run in a different mode.U >IJ > Ideally, the switch would send the KB reset power up code to the system,+ > which would cause us to reprogram the KB.  >  > _Fredi >t* > Matthew X. Economou wrote in message ...H > >I have noticed some strangeness with my PCXAL keyboard attached to myH > >AlphaStation in both text mode and under DECwindows.  The keyboard isG > >connected through a Master View KVM switch.  I have noticed no otheraD > >problems on the other systems connected to the switch (aside fromE > >mouse detection when Windows is restarted and doesn't have focus).  > >69 > >In text mode, in either the SRM console or on "OPA0:":gE > > - I cannot type a question mark "?" (shift-/ on my keyboard).  No& > >   error is signaled.G > > - The number lock key won't.  (Maybe because VMS is interpreting ita > >   as PF1?)F > > - I can type "/", "-", and "+" on the numeric keypad, but not "*". > >a > >Under DECwindows:G > > - The RETURN key will only enter commands at certain times (e.g. at 9 > >   the DCL prompt, but not at the HELP Topic? prompt).rE > > - I cannot type "<", ">", "/", or "?", but "." and "," work fine.tD > > - The left control key doesn't cause control characters, but theG > >   right control key does.  In fact, left control seems to work liker > >   some kind of compose key.n > >dC > >Needless to say, I'm very confused.  Since this is not the LK411EG > >keyboard mentioned in the FAQ, I'm not certain how to proceed.  DoesrH > >anyone know what might be wrong, either with the keyboard or with the- > >wetware interfacing with the keyboard?  ;)i > >_ > >Thanks in advance,t > >#\Matthew > >  > >-- B > >"His power lies apparently in his ability to choose incompetent6 > >enemies." - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space" >i >t   Hi!   J Depends on the type of  console switch you use. We have triede several andI found the black box personal servswitch to be working without any problem6 (pc and alphastation).   Ren   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:56:18 +01008 From: "Anders stling" <anders.ostling@neurope.ikea.com> Subject: LDAP SDK for OpenVMS ? , Message-ID: <9s88jj$u9m$1@mailgate.ikea.com>  
 Hi VMS'ers  L I have been off the list for a few years, and generally off from VMS too forI too long time. Therefore I would appreciate any pointers to LDAP SDK's orlH libraries for VMS (Alpha and/or VAX). What we need is to port the clientH stubs of an LDAP enabled c/s solution to VMS. Initially on Alpha 7.x but maybe also to VAX...   Thanks   Anders   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:34:07 +0100< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de># Subject: Re: LDAP SDK for OpenVMS ?R5 Message-ID: <9s8aqc$11m41g$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>s   Anders stling wrote...uF > I have been off the list for a few years, and generally off from VMSE > too for too long time. Therefore I would appreciate any pointers toaE > LDAP SDK's or libraries for VMS (Alpha and/or VAX). What we need iseB > to port the client stubs of an LDAP enabled c/s solution to VMS.1 > Initially on Alpha 7.x but maybe also to VAX...b    G An Alpha-only SDK seems to have been integrated into VMS 7.3. Mind you,mI I've not used it, I just saw it when looking into some other utility SDK.h0 See the OpenVMS Utility Routines Manual, e.g. atI http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/4493/4493pro_026.html#ldap_chapt   cu,s   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deoJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:57:23 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk# Subject: Re: LDAP SDK for OpenVMS ?-+ Message-ID: <9s8c63$2s0$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   g In article <9s88jj$u9m$1@mailgate.ikea.com>, "Anders stling" <anders.ostling@neurope.ikea.com> writes:m >Hi VMS'ersb >vM >I have been off the list for a few years, and generally off from VMS too foroJ >too long time. Therefore I would appreciate any pointers to LDAP SDK's orI >libraries for VMS (Alpha and/or VAX). What we need is to port the clientsI >stubs of an LDAP enabled c/s solution to VMS. Initially on Alpha 7.x butd >maybe also to VAX...u >s >Thankse >u >Anders  >l >e  I VMS 7.3 comes with an LDAP C SDK. You also have an unlimited license for tK Compaq's ldap/x500 enterprise directory service (available on the ebusinessa CD).  L The SDK is based on Innosoft's LDAP SDK. You may be able to obtain this from? process ( http://www.process.com ) for earlier versions of VMS.t    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 06:13:20 -0600?- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w# Subject: Re: LDAP SDK for OpenVMS ? 3 Message-ID: <TDDQ+A4WqsJW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <9s88jj$u9m$1@mailgate.ikea.com>, "Anders stling" <anders.ostling@neurope.ikea.com> writes:m > Hi VMS'ers > N > I have been off the list for a few years, and generally off from VMS too forK > too long time. Therefore I would appreciate any pointers to LDAP SDK's ortJ > libraries for VMS (Alpha and/or VAX). What we need is to port the clientJ > stubs of an LDAP enabled c/s solution to VMS. Initially on Alpha 7.x but > maybe also to VAX...  ; An LDAP client library is part of VMS, effective with V7.3.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:05:03 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n: Subject: Microsoft co-founder establishes DEC archive site8 Message-ID: <u99futo77ld0tevhimbrh4kr64eaa19mrr@4ax.com>  B The following was just posted in alt.sys.pdp10. Hmm maybe with hisE interest in all things DEC we could persuade him to buy VMS and Alphac and take on Mr Gates...   7 Announcing a new Web and ftp site for PDP-10 material -C http://pdp10.paulallen.com.l  F Paul G. Allen, co-founder of Microsoft and PDP-10 enthusiast/developer is? creating a new Web site to provide easy-to-use PDP-10 files andgE documentation. After loading and testing various simh configurations,6 a DSKBC image for simh with a robust configuration, a monitor that supportse printingA and serial logins and a DSKC file for user storage, have all been 	 posted tot	 the site.O  B The TOAD-1 XKLeTen.paulallen.com will be moving soon to a location where it< can again be accessed from the internet. Stay tuned for more information.  5 For questions and comments mailto:pdp10@paulallen.comI   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 09:16:07 -0800a" From: vms@vushta.com (Thomas Knox)$ Subject: Monitoring CPU usage in DCL= Message-ID: <a82e42f8.0111060916.68396e3d@posting.google.com>0   Hello,  F I am trying to write a DCL script that will simply display the currentA CPU utilization %, much as you can get from a "monitor system" or1E "monitor cluster" command. All I need to get is the current CPU %. Soi- far, all of my attempts have been frustrated.r  F Can anyone point me in the direction to go? I'm running OpenVMS 7.1 on2 a VAX cluster (yes, we're still using real VAXen).    Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Tomi   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:17:18 GMTc= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)5( Subject: Re: Monitoring CPU usage in DCL0 Message-ID: <00A04A4D.D2E3FABD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <a82e42f8.0111060916.68396e3d@posting.google.com>, vms@vushta.com (Thomas Knox) writes: >Hello,d >eG >I am trying to write a DCL script that will simply display the current B >CPU utilization %, much as you can get from a "monitor system" orF >"monitor cluster" command. All I need to get is the current CPU %. So. >far, all of my attempts have been frustrated.  D From DCL only?  You will likely be frustrated for some time to come.    G >Can anyone point me in the direction to go? I'm running OpenVMS 7.1 onn3 >a VAX cluster (yes, we're still using real VAXen).i  
 $GETSPI.    F I'm sure if you fire up your browser and hit one of the search enginesF with $GETSPI as your query string, you'll get plenty of information on using $GETSPI.  M ***  MicroVAX-IV (the final MicroVAX) has achieved a 2-year uptime today! ***  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             dJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbess   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:45:16 GMTe2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)( Subject: Re: Monitoring CPU usage in DCL3 Message-ID: <0dWF7.1322$RL6.33804@news.cpqcorp.net>1  b In article <a82e42f8.0111060916.68396e3d@posting.google.com>, vms@vushta.com (Thomas Knox) writes:  G :I am trying to write a DCL script that will simply display the current0B :CPU utilization %, much as you can get from a "monitor system" orF :"monitor cluster" command. All I need to get is the current CPU %. So. :far, all of my attempts have been frustrated.  H   DCL command procedures are not particularly suited to this particular G   task.  I'll assume there are one or more unspecified constraints -- anF   familiarity with DCL, lack of access to compilers, etc -- which are $   forcing you toward the use of DCL.  G :Can anyone point me in the direction to go? I'm running OpenVMS 7.1 ona3 :a VAX cluster (yes, we're still using real VAXen).@  G   I'd tend to use the I_SPI tools available on the Freeware -- look in .G   [SRH_EXAMPLES].  This particular tool will return the processor modestH   information, using an unsupported interface "underneath" MONITOR.  On F   OpenVMS V7.3 and later, the (supported) $getrmi call should be used.  J   A brute-force solution -- one which is possible in DCL -- is to replace K   the OpenVMS null job with as many "$LOOP: GOTO LOOP" detached (or batch) uJ   jobs as you have processors in the system, and run all of these jobs at /   priority zero.  Then track the CPU from each.8  E   I'd be very surprised if there were not other approaches available.e  E   I would strongly discourage any attempts at parsing MONITOR output.n  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:40:20 +0100 1 From: Enrico Badella <enrico.badella@softstar.it>r4 Subject: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2+ Message-ID: <3BE7E844.113B39E2@softstar.it>r  F Finally I've installed OpenVMS 7.2 on my noname AXPpci 33; now I wouldC want to network it with my VAXstation 3100. From what I've read it oG seems that there is only support for DEC branded network adapters, nonel of which I have.  I After reading some docs and looking around on dka0: I added the following ' lines to SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT    DEVICE	= "NE2000"h    NAME = ER    DRIVER = SYS$ERDRIVER_NE2000     ADAPTER = ISA    ID = NE2000#    boot_flags = HW_CTRL_LTR, UNIT_0A    flags = BOOT, NETWORK
 END_DEVICE   and at the SRM prompt didr  O isacfg -slot 1 -dev 0 -mk -handle NE2000 -irq0 5 -iobase0 300 -enadev 1 -etyp 1t   Once OpenVMS is up     $ show dev era0:/fulle  H Device ERA0:, device type DE305, is offline, network device, device is a 	template only.-  ' 	Error count		0	Operations completede	01, 	Owner process	       ""	Owner UIC	 [SYSTEM]5 	Owner process ID 00000000	Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,Wr) 	Reference count		0	Default buffer size	06  2 The adapter is a real, but antique, Novell NE2000.  G If in SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT I change the DRIVER specification oJ to SYS$ERDRIVER, while booting I get %ERA0, PnP failed to isolate adapter.I Show dev has similar output except for the device type that is something t like DE422 (no sure)  D Now the question! What am I doing wrong or not understanding? ShouldK I give up using a NE2000 board and try to locate one of these DEC adapters?n   Long life to VMS 8-)   TIAe   e.  H ========================================================================H Enrico Badella                       email:   enrico.badella@softstar.itA Soft*Star srl                                 eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it H InterNetworking Specialists          tel:     +39-011-746092            < Via Camburzano 9                     fax:     +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy:  K   Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software,44   manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manualsJ ==========================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:13:45 GMTi& From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org>< Subject: Re: New HP-Compaq merger discussion list at Interex@ Message-ID: <JBPF7.108592$%B6.29544700@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>  L I've had a discussion list up on the HP-Compaq merger (acquisition) since it was announced.  ( http://www.tru64.org/phorum/list.php?f=8   Kenh   -- Ken Farmer, kfarmer@tru64.orgv Tru64.org, http://www.tru64.orgo Tru64.org Newsletter:j< http://www2.tru64.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-Registration        3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messageo) news:tuefursfdv8df8@corp.supernews.com... E > FYI - Interex has established a mail list for discussions about thei) > HP-Compaq merger. You can subscribe at:  > 5 > http://www.interex.org/cgi/lists.cgi?list=hp-compaqh >m > -- > Greg Cagle > gregc at gregcagle dot com >f >t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:50:27 -00004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Re: RMS accvioSA Message-ID: <1005040079.7395.0.nnrp-07.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>?  K AES ? We used to have it, and having bought a nice new ds20, we're probablyyJ entitled again, but I'd sooner use nice normal email than dsn over a stone2 age 9600 baud dialup modem from Digital/Compaq/HP.L Another week or thereabouts seems to have drifted by however, without anyone- from TSC UK coming up with the goods. Ho hum._  J And to previous enquiries, yes, I had installed the xfc patch & downgraded vcc_flags to 1.6  
 Chris Sharmanm  7 "Paul Dennis" <comedyox@earthlink.not> wrote in messager? news:4K0F7.13222$hZ.1240549@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...> >HK > "Chris Sharman" > > > I'm reporting it here because there doesn't seem tob be > much for TSC to< > > goJ > > > > on, and in any case (separate thread) I can't put support calls in to > UK > > TSC" > > > > via web or email.S >g > Don't you have AES?p >r	 > Cheers,n > .pd. >, >-   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:33:04 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: RMS accviol+ Message-ID: <9s8hpg$4ng$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>p  x In article <1005040079.7395.0.nnrp-07.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> writes:L >AES ? We used to have it, and having bought a nice new ds20, we're probablyK >entitled again, but I'd sooner use nice normal email than dsn over a stoneB3 >age 9600 baud dialup modem from Digital/Compaq/HP.oM >Another week or thereabouts seems to have drifted by however, without anyone:. >from TSC UK coming up with the goods. Ho hum. >tK >And to previous enquiries, yes, I had installed the xfc patch & downgradede >vcc_flags to 1. >$   AES no longer exists in the UK..6 To report problems you now use the web interface at :-   http://ccc.emea.compaq.com/   . Technical information is now available from :-   http://www.compaq.co.uk/support   I And if you want your systems to automatically report problems or to allownG Compaq to remotely connect to diagnose problems then you need to setup f (you guessed it) an NT box.e  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:19:12 -00004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> Subject: Re: RMS accviohB Message-ID: <1005063405.17780.0.nnrp-10.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  8 > To report problems you now use the web interface at :- >e > http://ccc.emea.compaq.com/c >o0 > Technical information is now available from :- > ! > http://www.compaq.co.uk/supporta  D That's the one. It tells me I can't register because I already have.K I don't have my password, and I've been to the "please tell me my password"rJ page several times in recent weeks, and emailed folk at uk tsc, but no-one	 responds.l  & Hello ! Anyone at Compaq tsc uk here ?  
 Chris Sharmanm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 02:50:42 -05004 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>( Subject: Re: Weird Hobbyist PAK behavior, Message-ID: <9s84oc$3nl7$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:TehWoeB9QrUL@eisner.encompasserve.org...)  B > Based on posts to comp.os.vms, the best thing that could be done? > for hobbyist license delivery would be to package them so youtB > cannot download an operating system license without also gettingC > the layered product licenses.  The need for more than one license D > is terminally confusing for total novices, who are just the people3 > who should get an attractive introduction to VMS.    Larry,    You never cease to amaze me! :-)  F I have to agree that it seems logical that the default (maybe it is, IC do not know) on getting hobbyist PAK's should be ALL allowed PAK's.t   --  	 Mark Budat Compaq Computer Corporation  VMS Engineering  110 Spitbrook Road
 MS: ZK3-4/X57b Nashua, NH 03062 Voice: (603) 884-1969w FAX: (603) 884-3451i   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 06:12:03 -0600o- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c( Subject: Re: Weird Hobbyist PAK behavior3 Message-ID: <yo0iu4dfGTqf@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <9s84oc$3nl7$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> writes:  > < > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:TehWoeB9QrUL@eisner.encompasserve.org...6 > C >> Based on posts to comp.os.vms, the best thing that could be donei@ >> for hobbyist license delivery would be to package them so youC >> cannot download an operating system license without also gettingaD >> the layered product licenses.  The need for more than one licenseE >> is terminally confusing for total novices, who are just the people 4 >> who should get an attractive introduction to VMS. >  > Larry, > " > You never cease to amaze me! :-) > H > I have to agree that it seems logical that the default (maybe it is, IE > do not know) on getting hobbyist PAK's should be ALL allowed PAK's.i  F When I last spoke to David about it, the default was operating systemsD and layered products separately.  He said it was because there was aA genuine choice for operating systems (VAX/Alpha) and then layeredaF products were separate (perhaps a zero unit license).  He acknowledged< that something more automatic for newcomers might be better.  F This problem, of course, can be solved with just more volunteer effort4 and does not require involvement of VMS Development.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 03:54:55 -0800  From: mark.barry@ps.net (Blast)d Subject: Which Disks are Which?s= Message-ID: <5bea1e19.0111060354.4eddb57f@posting.google.com>M   Hi,    Can anyone help.  ' 2 x alpha 4100 cluster, OpenVMS 7.1-1h23  C 2 x disk cabs, 1 with 2 pairs dual redundant controllers (HSZ70's),  2nd with 1 pair.  > In the cabinet with 1 pair controllers I have various stripe &B raidsets. Can anyone tell me if it's posible from VMS to match theC disks that the system sees (VMS level) to the disks in the cabinet.iF Unfortunately not all the disks in the cab are labelled and I'm tryingD to work out what disks on the system are which disks in the cabinet.? I'm loathe to start checking out the configuration etc from the86 controller until I know for sure which disks are what.  # Any help/pointers much appreciated.a Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:07:22 +0100e= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>f# Subject: Re: Which Disks are Which?o) Message-ID: <3BE7D27A.ED460CB4@dummy.com>n  6 As far as I know, from VMS you can only "see" the disk6 as the UNIT that is set up on the controler. You can't4 se *what* physical disks this unit is built up from.  < What you can do, if you have the correct kit installed, is :  * $ SET HOST /SCSI <one-of-your-VMS-devices> [some messages...] HSZ> SHOW THIS CONTROLER HSZ> SHOW UNITSD   and so on...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.A   Blast wrote: >  > Hi,b ...t: > Can anyone tell me if it's posible from VMS to match theE > disks that the system sees (VMS level) to the disks in the cabinet.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:40:17 +01007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@getronics.com> # Subject: RE: Which Disks are Which?@O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6980@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>   ? Connect a terminal to the terminal port of the HSZ70 controler.1# Do a 'show unit' on the HSZ prompt. $ Do a 'show dev d' on the VMS prompt. Now you see something like aD D100 on the HSZ prompt what is the same as DKC100 on the VMS prompt.  A Now do a 'show d100' and now you will get something like DISK110.PB If you get something else have to do with a raidset or stripe set.( Just do a 'show S2' or what you did get.  / Now you now what disks are connected the units.tL If you want to locate the disks do a 'locate disk110' and watchs the lights 
 on the disks.-  . I hope this are enough pointers you will need.       > -----Original Message-----4 > From: mark.barry@ps.net [mailto:mark.barry@ps.net]% > Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2001 12:55- > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6! > Subject: Which Disks are Which?  >  >  > Hi,  >  > Can anyone help. > ) > 2 x alpha 4100 cluster, OpenVMS 7.1-1h2l > E > 2 x disk cabs, 1 with 2 pairs dual redundant controllers (HSZ70's),g > 2nd with 1 pair. > @ > In the cabinet with 1 pair controllers I have various stripe &D > raidsets. Can anyone tell me if it's posible from VMS to match theE > disks that the system sees (VMS level) to the disks in the cabinet.tH > Unfortunately not all the disks in the cab are labelled and I'm tryingF > to work out what disks on the system are which disks in the cabinet.A > I'm loathe to start checking out the configuration etc from thee8 > controller until I know for sure which disks are what. > % > Any help/pointers much appreciated.r > Thanks in advance... >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 01 06:56:17 PSTi From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.coma# Subject: Re: Which Disks are Which?-( Message-ID: <jMG435+eYqJc@cpva.saic.com>  ) In article <3BE7D27A.ED460CB4@dummy.com>,K@  Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> writes:8 > As far as I know, from VMS you can only "see" the disk8 > as the UNIT that is set up on the controler. You can't6 > se *what* physical disks this unit is built up from. > > > What you can do, if you have the correct kit installed, is : > , > $ SET HOST /SCSI <one-of-your-VMS-devices> > [some messages...] > HSZ> SHOW THIS CONTROLER > HSZ> SHOW UNITS  >  > and so on... >   N "and so on..." will probably include the HSZ's LOCATE command if you're unsure& how to interpret port, target and LUN.   > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  >  > Blast wrote: >> r >> Hi, > ...S; >> Can anyone tell me if it's posible from VMS to match thenF >> disks that the system sees (VMS level) to the disks in the cabinet.   -- n - Jime   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 07:36:46 -0800h* From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham)# Subject: Re: Which Disks are Which?m; Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0111060736.f192f97@posting.google.com>   + mark.barry@ps.net (Blast) wrote in message e   Mark,d  9 I guess you have used sho dev DUA##/full or DKA##/full or  $1$DUA###/full etc.uF This should show u the kind of disk and then you could try to match onB the controller. If it is dka0: that should be scsi device 0? or if DKA100: could be SCSI 1??.  " Nodename> sho dev sys4b$dka0:/full  E Disk SYS4B$DKA0:, device type RZ57, is online, mounted, file-orientedo device,r(     shareable, error logging is enabled.    F Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 	 Trans Mnt F  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count CntcF $1$DKA0:        (SYSA)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)F $1$DKA200:      (SYSA)  Mounted              0  (remote mount)        	         1.F $1$DKA300:      (SYSA)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)F $2$DKA0:        (SYSB)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)F $2$DKA200:      (SYSB)  Mounted              0  VAXVMS62             0	   250   1DF $2$DKA300:      (SYSB)  Online               0  (remote shadow member). $2$DKA700:      (SYSB)  Online wrtlck        0   SYSTEMB-> sho DEV $1$dKA0:/FULLe  7 Disk $1$DKA0: (SYSA), device type DEC RZ26N, is online,i  E Also check the sys$startup:startup_vms.com files to see if there is ao= mount command, which could tell you which disks are doing thet shodowing or mirroring etc..  6 $MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA1: /SHADOW=($1$DKA300,$2$DKA300) USER3 $MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA2: /SHADOW=($1$DKA0,$2$DKA0) USER2a  B Does the HSC show any info on the mounted devices? Show disk, show tape etc...i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:25:12 +01007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>h# Subject: RE: Which Disks are Which?SO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6981@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>s  D If you use a HSx controller you can give the disk any name you want.  / Here you have an example with a HSD controller.    S> show dev dua65 /fullg  O Disk $1$DUA65: (HSD000), device type MSCP served SCSI disk, is online, mounted, M     file-oriented device, shareable, served to cluster via MSCP Server, errorc     logging is enabled.s  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed            2565166aO     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] O     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WtO     Reference count              126    Default buffer size                 512tO     Total blocks             8378028    Sectors per track                   113aO     Total cylinders             3708    Tracks per cylinder                  20FO     Host name               "HSD000"    Host type, avail              HSD5, yesiO     Alternate host name         "FE"    Alt. type, avail     VAX 4000-705A, yes $     Allocation class               1  O     Volume label         "CUCVMSV71"    Relative volume number                0lO     Cluster size                   9    Transaction count                   269SO     Free blocks              3685698    Maximum files allowed            418901VO     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                           2 O     Mount status              System    Cache name         "_$1$DUA65:XQPCACHE"nO     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache   368569rO     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache 271557 O     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache       2164IO     Volume owner UIC           [1,1]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCDK  N   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, protected subsystems enabled,=       file high-water marking, write-through caching enabled.    Volume is also mounted on FE.     B Here you have an example of show dev d /full with a HSZ controller   RN> show dev dkc101 /fullc  P Disk $1$DKC101: (RN), device type DEC HSZ50-AX, is online, file-oriented device,>     shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed             330567.O     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]SO     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WhO     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512sO     Total blocks            41890140    Sectors per track                   113iO     Total cylinders            18536    Tracks per cylinder                  20l$     Allocation class               1  Q Without a HSx controller you have following result and now its easy to see in VMS f all the info you need. Normally a raid controller changes the values of the SCSI port, target and LUN.     TH> show dev dkb /full  O Disk $1$DKB0: (TH), device type DEC RZ1CB-CA, is online, mounted, file-oriented F     device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed             467660,O     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]=O     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WuO     Reference count              223    Default buffer size                 512:O     Total blocks             8380080    Sectors per track                   1139O     Total cylinders             3708    Tracks per cylinder                  20q$     Allocation class               1  O     Volume label         "CUCVMSV72"    Relative volume number                0rO     Cluster size                   9    Transaction count                   367wO     Free blocks              5017779    Maximum files allowed            419004@O     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                           1YO     Mount status              System    Cache name          "_$1$DKB0:XQPCACHE"eO     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache   501777cO     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache  12699-O     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache       2680nO     Volume owner UIC        [SYSTEM]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD7  L   Volume Status:  ODS-2, subject to mount verification, protected subsystemsF       enabled, file high-water marking, write-through caching enabled.  I Disk $1$DKB100: (TH), device type RZ29B, is online, file-oriented device,f>     shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                 25_O     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]cO     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WiO     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512 O     Total blocks             8380080    Sectors per track                   113 O     Total cylinders             3708    Tracks per cylinder                  20 $     Allocation class               1    l Normally if you have DKC123 it tells you that is a disk (D) based on SCSI (K) that is the third adapter (C) e this on SCSI port 1 (1), target 2 (2) and lun 3 (3). But with a raidcontroller it's free changeable. R  R I hope I have explained it clearly enough and show with examples the differences.        > -----Original Message-----> > From: vmendham@altavista.com [mailto:vmendham@altavista.com]% > Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2001 16:37t > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comb% > Subject: Re: Which Disks are Which?  >  > - > mark.barry@ps.net (Blast) wrote in message d >  > Mark,  > ; > I guess you have used sho dev DUA##/full or DKA##/full ora > $1$DUA###/full etc.wH > This should show u the kind of disk and then you could try to match onD > the controller. If it is dka0: that should be scsi device 0? or if > DKA100: could be SCSI 1??. > $ > Nodename> sho dev sys4b$dka0:/full > G > Disk SYS4B$DKA0:, device type RZ57, is online, mounted, file-oriented 	 > device,n* >     shareable, error logging is enabled. >  > H > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  > Trans MnttH >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks > Count CntuH > $1$DKA0:        (SYSA)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)H > $1$DKA200:      (SYSA)  Mounted              0  (remote mount)         >         1-H > $1$DKA300:      (SYSA)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)H > $2$DKA0:        (SYSB)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)H > $2$DKA200:      (SYSB)  Mounted              0  VAXVMS62             0 >   250   1.H > $2$DKA300:      (SYSB)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)0 > $2$DKA700:      (SYSB)  Online wrtlck        0 > ! > SYSTEMB-> sho DEV $1$dKA0:/FULLI > 9 > Disk $1$DKA0: (SYSA), device type DEC RZ26N, is online," > G > Also check the sys$startup:startup_vms.com files to see if there is a ? > mount command, which could tell you which disks are doing theq > shodowing or mirroring etc.. > 8 > $MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA1: /SHADOW=($1$DKA300,$2$DKA300) USER5 > $MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA2: /SHADOW=($1$DKA0,$2$DKA0) USER2o > D > Does the HSC show any info on the mounted devices? Show disk, show
 > tape etc.... >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.618 ************************