1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 07 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 619       Contents:" Re: Blockbuster uses Alpha systems Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees?! Compaq's future (or lack thereof) $ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking9 Re: CSWS/Apache v1.1:  SSL what commands are implemented?  Disk Defragmenters Re: Disk Defragmenters eco notices  Re: eco notices  Re: eco notices  FORMATTING A FLOPPY  Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY 2 Hewlett family gives two thumbs down to the merger6 Re: Hewlett family gives two thumbs down to the merger6 Re: Hewlett family gives two thumbs down to the merger. Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!# Hewlett family votes against merger % Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.1 % Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.1 7 Information about the files accessed by an application. 
 Lost in MACRO 5 Re: Microsoft co-founder establishes DEC archive site 5 Re: Microsoft co-founder establishes DEC archive site  Re: Monitoring CPU usage in DCL 1 OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech! 5 RE: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech! 2 Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCL6 Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCL6 Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCL6 Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCL Storage Works Arrays in DC Re: Undo disk Initialize Re: VMS721_CLIUTL-0200 Status? Re: VMSMail APIs?  Re: VMSMail APIs?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 02:59:42 +0000 1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> + Subject: Re: Blockbuster uses Alpha systems 6 Message-ID: <3BE8A39E.7AC5CAE0@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  D Last I heard, the UK outlets were still using multiple microVAX 3100D systems, each with either one or two RZ23 disks and a fairly ancientG version of VMS.  It all added up to fun and games when one of the disks H went bad as there wasn't enough capability on the systems to do an image! backup/image restore of the disk.   @ For the other part of this thread, the UK censor does definitely: consider the target medium when granting a certificate for@ vidoe/DVD/cinema exhibition.  For example, the cinema version ofH "Shallow Grave" has a scene in which Kerry Fox is topless near the startG of the picture and then shows her getting dressed and being spyed on by H Christopher Eccleston.  Both of these scenes are cut much shorter in the% TV and video versions of the picture.   D <Trivia> Did you know that Paramount, having released Saturday NightE Fever in 1978 with an "X" certificate in the UK, went away, re-edited F the picture and got an "A" certificate for the re-edited version?  TheG reason was that the kiddiewinks (of which I was one at that time) could H all buy the records of the hit songs from the picture but couldn't go toG the cinema and see it!  The edited picture has some interesting quirks, H like a dancer in the bar at the side of the disco removing her bra twiceG in as many views because the same view has been used twice although the  soundtrack moves on.	 </trivia>    Brian Tillman wrote: > B > >Sure, they don't carry them all---I meant changing the content. > >  > >Somewhere under > > . > >   http://www.suntimes.com/index/ebert.html > > F > >this topic has come up several times, when readers noticed that theH > >Blockbuster version was different from what they remembered seeing in > >the cinema. > L > That's not Blockbuster changing the movie, though, that's the film company > changing the movie.  > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com C > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com ? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent > > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   --  G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent like E a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath. A Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'" % 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 22:32:28 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? ' Message-ID: <3BE8B95C.282EB342@fsi.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3BE5F76C.8716C057@fsi.net>... > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > A > > > In article <dpeF7.4735$MI.1685953@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, = > > >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > > > |>? > > > |> And Gates, Grove, and McNealy would inherit the earth.  > > > |> > > > L > > You make my mouth water with such talk. Some others and myself (locally)I > > are hedging our bets on the chance that Solaris will see a resurgence G > > and Linux will come into its own in the server space. I'm sorry VMS K > > can't be there as well, but there's that whole "affordability" obstacle  > > remaining to be overcome.  > >  > N > what affordability issue?  i am tired of people saying how expensive vms is!O > if you shop around you can find very good prices on boxes, licenses, anything ; > you need ... we just last year bought an alphaserver 1200   H Clearly, you do not work with enterprise-class equipment in environmentsD where lives are at stake. Management would never go for such a deal,G especially after the outage we just had - 9 days over the course of two E weeks, due to 64-bit PCI riser cards in GS160 (they've been recalled, E AFAIK, at least at Cerner sites - dunno about Compaq itself, but they H duplicated in their lab the problem we had which did rather an efficient' job of scrambling our Oracle database).   E My partner was explaining to me today that 1+GHz "fireboxes" are over = $100,000 each - not sure what the GS160 istelf was worth new.   9 ...and that doesn't BEGIN to discuss VMS license pricing.   F Better check a price list before making another post like that, son...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 22:34:40 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? ' Message-ID: <3BE8B9E0.D551658C@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > 9 > "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com> wrote in message . > news:9s4r3q$p98$2@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...M > > What is the likelihood of the merger not being approved?  There certainly  > isG > > a great deal of analyst (and apparently stockholder) resistance and $ > > dissatisfaction being expressed. >  > Good question. > > F > > My 'best case' scenario (which I'm currently planning on voting my
 > pittanceL > > of shares in both companies to advance) is the merger fails the vote, HPM > > goes somewhere else for distraction, Capellas and Winkler et al get shown 1 > > the door, and a new management team comes in.  > > L > > At least that leaves the _chance_ that something good might happen, that > new M > > management that doesn't have its collective heads up bill gates butt, and L > > can look clearly at the financial pictures and disastrous decisions made > by- > > the current regime might be in put place.  > >  > > I can dream... > M > I can't for the life of me understand the continued fascination with Mister I > Gates. Adopt and promote his stuff and you lose margin and vendor lock. L > Perhaps you "make it up on volume" when it comes to lower margins, but who > gains the volume? Dell?  > H > Windows 2000 Datacenter has thus far been a flop. I've yet to see muchK > interest in .NET. Yet Compaq and others promote Windoze XP (which runs on H > ultra-low-margin peecees) like it's the Second Coming or something. Go > figure...   H Well, it's not unheard of for people to take one look at it and exclaim, "Oh, Gee-Zus!"   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:54:04 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Compaq's future (or lack thereof), Message-ID: <3BE87817.60A53F50@videotron.ca>  @ If the HP takeover of Compaq fails, what will happen of Compaq ?  J If investors lose confidence since Compaq is so inept at building PCs costL effectively, could Compaq be forced into bankrupcy if it doesn't turn things around ?  H Or would Compaq be smart enough to downszise itself to have only VMS and$ Tandem (and perhaps restart Tru64) ?  J Any chance that Compaq might nmot send the EV7 engineers to Intel and haveN them wirk on EV8 and continue Alpha, except this time, push the hell out of itH since Compaq's survival would depend on Compaq maximizing all of its non wintel assets ?     I If the HP puchase of Compaq fails, would Compaq be forced to find another L buyer and if that fails, lower its stock price until a buyer is interested ?; (lower stock price = sell yor remaining profitable assets).    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 13:13:32 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking 3 Message-ID: <prBnWKfpOeA4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <hi9cwi36wLf0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:    Peter Kastner wrote:  K "Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.  First, F it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customer% business managers would flinch at.  "     A 	Misread that , and picking up on your meaning and not my read...   D 	Having been involved in a number of sizable migrations from VAX to * 	Alpha, I have done it two different ways:   			1)  Immediate cutover 			2)  Long migration   A        	2) involves plugging Alphas into the existing VAXCluster. A 	This was mostly homegrown applications that involved recompiling C 	source code.  A few applications remain on VAX (2 actually) due to E 	source code loss and/or no port being available for Alpha.  A recent B 	example of 1) involved a cutover in less than 8 hours time.  DBs F 	using Alpha based executables instead of VAX.  Weeks of testing priorA 	to cutover.  Very simple and flawless.  All scripting of course  > 	required little or no modification.  The vendor supports both@ 	platforms.  The cost in both cases was easy to justify.  HigherA 	performing boxes, cheaper and warranty bundles to further lessen > 	the cost.  No source code issues on my end, the vendor was/isD 	responsible for those deliverables.  I would suspect many VMS shops@ 	aren't homegrown and if they have an VAX->Alpha migration underB 	their belt, the Alpha->Itanium migration will be a piece of cake.@ 	One would also imagine there will be substantial incentives to @ 	kick start VMS on Itanium.  There is a porting program for ISVsG 	to port their apps to Itanium and I do believe that has been mentioned B 	here before (in other words, VMS ISVs may get money to make their 	apps available on Itanium).  D 	It is been stated here that Itanium servers will plug into existing 	Alpha clusters.  B 	I have performed VAX->Alpha immediate cutover numerous times, theG 	long term migration route once.  In all cases, it was a demonstratable F 	win on cost.  Alpha compilers deal well with VAX source.  The ItaniumD 	compilers should be even cleaner on re-compile.  I challenge you toH 	come up with evidence that supports a "complex" and "costly migration" 
 	scenario.  A 	As I pointed out earlier, the VMS migration to Itanium certainly ? 	doesn't fit that bill, I seriously doubt that will be the case  	for us end users either.    				Rob    cc:  kastner@aberdeen.com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 11:45:52 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111061145.58482c90@posting.google.com>   d "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com> wrote in message news:<9s8vd5$675@dispatch.concentric.net>...  H > Compaq has lost a lot of money in the last year or two in the industryK > standard PC business.  They've made money on Intel-based servers, but the L > margins have deteriorated there too (read: Dell), but the storage business; > is way up ... it's a constantly changing linear equation.   B and they will continue to do so Peter, as home sales shrink to the comingE cable internet explosion (aol, time warner) as i will be able to surf  the E web, email, do banking, get movies, etc. from a do-it-all smart cable  box.A with the power of chips exponentially increasing, backend servers  running C vms, unix, and linux will dominate as these platforms are more well  suitedE to running multiple apps and users well, unlike windows ... vms could  rule the high end if continued ...   J > It's a fact that computer companies do not tout their cash-cow installedN > bases if for no other reason than legacy is not "new technology" nor does itH > necessarily appeal to new customers.  More than 75% (sometimes 95%) ofJ > marketing dollars go to landing new accounts, not keeping old customers.K > And it would be unseemly to remind legacy customers that the profits they  > bring fuel new-product R&D.   ? vms is hardly legacy ... it is a terrific web platform, if only  development ; will continue ... if legacy means security, reliability and @ scalability, then i'll take legacy over blue screens and IIS ...   > L > Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.  First,H > it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customerM > business managers would flinch at.  Second, what's the price/performance on L > Itanium compared to Alpha -- and when could that be measured?  Third, it'sK > actually less likely that application providers would support a subset of J > today's VMS base on Intanium with new ports (e.g., SAP) than on a stable > (loyal) VMS base.   . wrong, we would port and vms is not expensive!   > K > If I could invest HP's money (ha!), I'd make sure that VMS customers were M > kept happy with a secure Alpha roadmap for the rest of the decade.  If that > > means some modest Alpha improvements, then show me a budget.   then why not tell them that?  M > I doubt I would be surprised.  I worked for DEC in 1987 in marketing (DECtp K > and RDB 3 launch.  TPC founder), so I have a deep and abiding respect for  > VMS. >  > Peter   : dec had a marketing department?  your kidding, aren't you?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:04:11 -0500% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking / Message-ID: <tugk2d82qqqb22@news.supernews.com>   7 "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com> wrote in message * news:9s8vd5$675@dispatch.concentric.net...4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:c3afutsiacnglkef368i2babdrlc1kkc9h@4ax.com... > >  [snip] > > C > > And finally do you stand by your recommendation that HP end the C > > Itanium port? That would seem a bit strange in a thread subject ( > > "Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking".? > E > The thread I picked up from an October 23rd message I can no longer C > retrieve.  Apologize for the mischaracterization, but I did get a 
 discussion
 > started! > L > Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.  First,H > it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customerJ > business managers would flinch at.  Second, what's the price/performance onL > Itanium compared to Alpha -- and when could that be measured?  Third, it'sK > actually less likely that application providers would support a subset of J > today's VMS base on Intanium with new ports (e.g., SAP) than on a stable > (loyal) VMS base.  >NK > If I could invest HP's money (ha!), I'd make sure that VMS customers weresH > kept happy with a secure Alpha roadmap for the rest of the decade.  If that> > means some modest Alpha improvements, then show me a budget. >s  J Are you really recommending that HP/Compaq announce the retirement of VMS?I Even with a 10 year roadmap, if they cancel the plans for year 11 onward,aE then that means we had better get started migrating to something else J because it's going to take at least 10 years.  If HP/Compaq starts us on a1 forced march, we won't be marching towards HP-UX.k  5 (Note: "We"/"us" refers to the typical OpenVMS user).a   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 13:16:00 -0800e1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingO= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0111061316.33214732@posting.google.com>   d "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com> wrote in message news:<9s71lb$m28@dispatch.concentric.net>... ...some very good information.  E Peter, thanks for participating in this discussion and lending an ear  to our feedback.   Some comments on the analysis:  ; > The customer base ranges from fanatical (HP 3000 and VAX)  > to somewhat satisfied.  6 This drastically understates the fanaticism of OpenVMS users on Alpha. :-)o  : Or did you mean to say VMS instead of VAX? (don't feel bad -- it's a very common mistake).   7 > Tru64 Unix development has remained active... OpenVMSt5 > has basically been in maintenance mode for the pastI8 > several years -- with a few new features added to help! > retain the large installed basea  9 If you check the numbers from Compaq, I think you'll findl9 there's been far more spending on VMS development than onC2 Tru64.  VMS has been getting between $200 and $3005 million per year.  Tru64 has probably gotten far more-: marketing dollars (a well publicized $100 million not long3 ago comes to mind), but its development dollars are 1 probably less than half those of VMS development.c  9 Tru64 development finally shipped TruClusters recently (a.8 big accomplishment, but that had been in the works since7 bout 1994).  On the VMS side, support for new hardware,e: including NUMA systems and Fibre Channel storage, might be9 taken for granted, as may the XFC cache, Volume Shadowingo0 Mini-Copy with Write Bitmaps, significant recent6 performance improvements to RMS, the lock manager, LAN: clustering, and SMP scalability, but there's been a lot of2 major new work recently that can't be dismissed as: insignificant, particularly Galaxy and the DII-COE effort.  9 > Digital had planned to migrate OpenVMS users to Windows  > NT on Alpha, but...x  4 Oh, you must have missed the "Digital had planned to2 migrate OpenVMS users to Digital Unix" phase which# immediately preceded that strategy.s  5 > NonStop Kernel is the OS for the MIPS-based NonStope0 > Himalaya servers.  These systems are high-end,3 > low-volume, niche market systems with few, if anya3 > competitors.  They play primarily in markets likeh4 > financial services that place the greatest premium > on system availability.t  4 Why Compaq and Aberdeen can recognize this, but fail6 to see the unique value that VMS high-availability and/ disaster-tolerant clusters (also popular in theh3 financial world) provide, eludes me.  And VMS has 3a4 imes the revenues of NonStop, with profits to match.  6 > HP/Compaq should complete the port of NonStop Kernel0 > to Itanium.  This technology, which has little6 > credible competition now that Stratus is no longer a7 > serious player, cannot be replaced by HP-UX.  Without 4 > this port, the new HP/Compaq will lose this market5 > and the high margins that come with it to IBM -- ase7 > well as damage relationships established at householdr > name customers like NASDAQ.t  8 This same logic applies even more strongly to VMS, which0 has a much larger installed base and 3 times the5 revenues/profits of NonStop Kernel, and a much largeri5 list of "household name" customers to offend as well.o  8 > The HP Marketing organization should take the lead for4 > the remaining server OSs because it has focused on0 > Itanium over the past year and has functioning > marketing programs in place.  5 Over the past year?  For crying out loud, HP has beeny6 able to prepare so well because Itanium was _years and$ years_ late getting out of the gate.  8 > By contrast, Tru64 UNIX and OpenVMS marketing has only4 > recently considered any strategy that looks beyond > Alpha.  8 Until the June 25 announcement which blind-sided both of6 those marketing groups, Alpha was only halfway through1 its 25-year lifetime.  If anything, I'm surprisedp6 they've been able to do as well as they have given the cards they were dealt.  = > StorageApps should be the survivor.  VersaStor is very latey  7 VersaStor is shipping.  Take a look at the HSV, and youf: might find good reasons to reconsider that recommendation.  & > Service Opportunities and Challenges  : As others have pointed out in this group, service revenues7 depend on having an installed base left to service, andM; service margins for VMS are much better than those for PCs.aC ------------------------------------------------------------------- C Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:cC Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/Or   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:27:42 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingp, Message-ID: <3BE871EB.BB99B1AC@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:K >         All and all, I would say your reasons for cancelling the port aresK >         very poor and not supported by Compaq in their public statements.eI >         Your Weakest Link is the whole cost issue.  Not well researchedd >         at all there.,  I Mr Young, while you make fair points,  the validity of that report in VMSeT engineer's eyes is less important that its reception by the public/IT managers/CIOs.  M It is especially the fact that Compaq chose to publish this report to the SEChN because it supported the merger even though it was very damning to VMS that isA important here. It means that Compaq doesn't mind/care when thoseo5 report-producing outfits portray VMS very negatively.   N If those 35 engineers working for a few years on that port to a hype-ware chipM causes a delay in the completion of the unix compatibility (DII-COE) then VMS  loses. i  M By the time intel might release a palatable chip with VMS actually running on G it in configurations that compete against alpha, VMS customers may have-N already had in invest in EV7 wildfire boxes and they are not likely to migrate! to that IA64 thing any time soon.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:43:58 -0500y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking4, Message-ID: <3BE875BB.3C0F541A@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:O >         using Alpha based executables instead of VAX.  Weeks of testing priorl0 >         to cutover.  Very simple and flawless.  K Will Compaq pay for the customer's "weeks of testing" ? If you have to takecM resources away from your core business to have them do a project which bringsaM the company absolutely nothing new and is the result of Curly killing his ownmI superior and profitable products in favour of intel/microsoft , then that G means you have weeks of staff being paid to do very unproductive stuff.s  G And since the remaining VMS customers tend to be those large shops withtM mission critical systems, having dual systems running at the same time duringcM testing means that a large percentage of the remaining MS customers base willuN see that migration as a major capital outlay as well as costing a lot of human& resources to test the new environment.  L And don't forget the softwrae makers of those mission critical systems. TheyW too will have to do extensive testing to certify their application on the new platform.n  N At a time when VMS isn't doing too well, asking customers to do that migrationK is asking too much. That is one reason I firmly believe that customers will K stay on Alpha as long as possible and the longer they wait to move to IA64, L the more the chances that other vendors' products will have grown sufficient% features to be chosen to replace VMS.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 01:00:47 GMTw* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking A Message-ID: <3J%F7.36166$7x1.3721463@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>0  > Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:KMUF7.1320$RL6.33703@news.cpqcorp.net... H > Peter Kastner wrote in message <9s8vd5$675@dispatch.concentric.net>...   ...   E > >Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.p First,I > >it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customereK > >business managers would flinch at.  Second, what's the price/performances onH > >Itanium compared to Alpha -- and when could that be measured?  Third, it'sL > >actually less likely that application providers would support a subset ofK > >today's VMS base on Intanium with new ports (e.g., SAP) than on a stabler > >(loyal) VMS base. > >qL > >If I could invest HP's money (ha!), I'd make sure that VMS customers wereI > >kept happy with a secure Alpha roadmap for the rest of the decade.  Ifw that? > >means some modest Alpha improvements, then show me a budget.s > >o >e >nK > I can't (and don't) speak for Compaq or OpenVMS (nor can I comment at-all1 on > any merger related issues)...p >eK > But I do believe that the strategy that OpenVMS is currently on will keep- > our Alpha customers happy,  H Only until such time as Alpha ceases to be a attractive platform (due to? performance obsolescence, purchasing difficulty/expense, and/or G disinclination to continue investing in a dying architecture).  At thatrC point, they'll have to migrate, which is never a happy occasion anduF justifiable only when the new platform offers some significant featureF (e.g., absolute, industry-leading performance, cost/performance, and aJ bright future in the migration from VAX to Alpha) that the old one lacked.  I IPF will never offer industry-leading performance unless IBM drops POWER4	G and its descendents:  it carries around far too much useless fat on itstG chip, the complexity of which also makes it harder to incorporate thosewJ features that could help it out of the hole it's in even when shrinks make" more chip area available for them.  F IPF will never offer great cost/performance unless AMD folds its tent:F POWER4 will be more attractive at the high end (where ancillary serverJ hardware makes per-processor cost far less important) and IA32 plus Hammer- will be *far* more attractive at the low end.p  G Which means that IPF likely won't be able to offer much in the way of ar! bright future, either:  strike 3.r  ,  and we will deliver the Alpha EV6x/EV7/EV79K > roadmap.  It also provides a path to future hardware (the Itanium family)v so< > that there is life for VMS *after* the Alpha roadmap ends.  G Better to state that IPF offers a life-line that *could* save VMS afteri0 Alpha's disappearance - if anyone is interested.   ...   G > Not porting to Itanium places OpenVMS into truly a legacy/maintenancee > position.   J Only if it's not accompanied by a resurrection of Alpha development, whichL was the other half of Peter's suggestion:  with continued Alpha development,J it rather keeps VMS on an industry-leading hardware platform - and withoutI the migration hassles for customers that would occur with, for example, ap port to POWER4...r  K Now that Bill Hewlett's family has taken a stand against the acquisition bydD HP, we may (one hopes) be one step closer to waving a none-too-earlyK farewell to Curly and his cohorts.  If so, Alpha might yet have a chance togL rise again; if not, my guess is that nothing cHomPaq does will make all that. much difference to their (or VMS's) viability.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 02:09:03 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking ? Message-ID: <3J0G7.680369$Lw3.43240093@news2.aus1.giganews.com>0  6 Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:hi9cwi36wLf0@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...a  E > Second.. and more to the chase.  In other trade rag writings (can'teC > source it, but someone with your resources should be able to find.C > it), a writer points out that VMS engineering has 30-35 engineers - > dedicated to the port.  So while you state:  >e >nE > "Yes, we still feel that a VMS port to Itanium should be cancelled.r First,H > it would be a complex and probably costly migration that many customer% > business managers would flinch at."n >t > Strike 1 on that, see above.  L Since you've already corrected your above erroneous impressions elsewhere, I won't do so again here.a   ...b  4 > Further, another of your strikes against the port: >.K > "Second, what's the price/performance on Itanium compared to Alpha -- and  when > could that be measured?" >a@ > By this reasoning, no one should be porting as X86 outperforms! > Itanium and will for some time.   E Surprise:  no one *is* porting, at least not any customers.  For thatmE reason, and for the additional reason that there's little to make one = suspect that IPF will *ever* be competitive in performance or H cost/performance - and certainly not soon enough for anyone to be in any rush to port to it.t      SGI shouldn't port Irix *yet*, > should they?  L SGI performed a great deal of their porting effort under the impression thatI IPF was going to be a significant step forward, before events proved thateJ this was not the case at all.  They're now keeping their MIPS options open4 for the indefinite future, unlike Compaq with Alpha.  %   And why in the world is HP porting?   G Given the continued viability of PA-RISC, that's an excellent question. J Perhaps it's because this was all their brain-child, starting 12 years agoG as the follow-on to PA-RISC, and they still believe in it.  But they'reoL keeping their PA-RISC options open for the indefinite future as well (again, unlike Compaq with Alpha).  E Of course, neither SGI nor HP had a platform with Alpha's current andoL potential future performance, so using them as examples wouldn't be entirelyI persuasive even if they *were* as committed to jettisoning their existing  platforms as Compaq is.e     Are you fishingeG > for a future crossover point when the actual migration Alpha->ItaniumcD > occurs or makes sense?  We speculate on that too.  Why not contact > Compaq and get their read.  B Because Compaq is clearly run by idiots whose opinion is less thanK worthless - even if you thought they could be relied upon to give an honestnJ answer in the first place?  That would be my guess, but Peter will have to answer for us to know for sure.   %   To suggest the port shouldn't occuruF > *because* of performance issues is laughable as FRV of Itanium sucksG > regarding performance and it may take 1-2 more generations to come up@
 > to RISC.  I One generation is McKinley, and all indications are that it won't cut the80 mustard (and won't even come close to doing so).  G Then come Madison (a shrunk McKinley core, with more on-chip cache) and1L Deerfield (a cost-reduced Madison, with less on-chip cache):  they won't cutJ the mustard either, but since they're basically rehashed McKinleys perhaps* they don't qualify as the next generation.  L Whatever generation you want to call it, it's looking like about 2005 beforeK an IPF member comes down the pike that might start looking better than whatiH IBM offers today and EV7 - and Hammer - will offer next year.  Plenty ofD time to crank up a VMS port if/when that schedule (and its resulting product) is better defined.t  3   The former Alpha engineers will surely help that,e< > why not contact Intel to find out what their outlook is on > Itanium performance futures.  H Their outlook, last I knew, was very optimistic:  there's just *so much*L room for improvement.  But the complexity of the architecture not only makesG that improvement difficult (pushing a resulting product out to 2005 forsH peripheral enhancements like on-chip glue for MP and memory and 2006 forE gut-level changes like incorporating OOO and SMT into an architectureeL explicitly predicated on their absence) but keeps the result one step behindI cleaner designs that don't have all that useless baggage to carry around.    ...,  C > All and all, I would say your reasons for cancelling the port arebC > very poor and not supported by Compaq in their public statements. A > Your Weakest Link is the whole cost issue.  Not well researched  > at all there.i  K Hmmm.  Low per-processor cost has little to do with mid-range-and-up server L pricing.  And the added expense of industrial-strength boxes - regardless ofK what processors are inside - means that they'll never penetrate the low-endnI server market, and hence never attain the volumes necessary to break that 0 rule.  Methinks Peter is not the Weak Link here.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 22:27:41 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingo, Message-ID: <3BE8AA2B.27348CA2@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:' >   And why in the world is HP porting?   J Could it be that they saw a threath from Alpha and decided to team up withL Intel to come up with a chip that could compete ? And now that IA64 is about< to be a flop, killing Alpha was an easy way to save the day.  I > Then come Madison (a shrunk McKinley core, with more on-chip cache) andeN > Deerfield (a cost-reduced Madison, with less on-chip cache):  they won't cutL > the mustard either, but since they're basically rehashed McKinleys perhaps, > they don't qualify as the next generation.  J For all its design flaws, if intel was able to take the 8086 and turn intoK some respectable high end chip, shouldn't it eventually be able to take theu& bloated IA64 and make it pretty fast ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 22:39:55 -0500 / From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@crosslink.net> - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingh= Message-ID: <gurman-B8013B.22395506112001@news.crosslink.net>   A In article <9s71lb$m28@dispatch.concentric.net>, "Peter Kastner" e <kastner@aberdeen.com> wrote:e   [snip] > H > As to the root question, I recommend that concerned VMS users look up  > their K > counterparts who own HP 3000's.  From our vantage point, HP is not givingnG > any more support to its own venerable HP 3000 base than it is to the tO > Compaq VMS base.  If enough critical customers of either/both platforms make .N > enough noise and promise to buy enough computers, then the not unintelligent: > executives at HP will make a sensible business decision.  I     Mr. Kastner's message is a serious one, so I will not mock it, but I tF find it very difficult to refrain from asking, "Could you please name E them [the execs]?" in response to the last sentence, particularly in  B light of the Hewlett family's far better appreciation of the core G business of HP than the top execs'. (Or maybe that should be "exec's?")   B     It seems that every time a large computer vendor has absorbed G another with different major markets, they have shown that they failed aH to understand the those markets, or even the products sold to them. And E every time, that misunderstanding has proven very bad for the buying   company's shareholders.u  G     Not being an industry analyst, and with no experience in corporate cH management, I can only surmise that such a situation occurs because the G boards of major computer vendors feel more comfortable with generalist wH CEO's at the helm, rather than individuals with first-hand knowledge of G the customer's-eye-view of the business. I believe that is in the long  C run a fatal weakness, and I trust the wisdom of the Hewlett family tG members over the apparent desperation of HP and Compaqupper management.e                     Joe Gurman4                   Strictly amateur industry observer   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 21:54:19 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinge3 Message-ID: <oYpTLxM4ZVJR@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  \ In article <3BE871EB.BB99B1AC@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:L >>         All and all, I would say your reasons for cancelling the port areL >>         very poor and not supported by Compaq in their public statements.J >>         Your Weakest Link is the whole cost issue.  Not well researched >>         at all there. > K > Mr Young, while you make fair points,  the validity of that report in VMSeV > engineer's eyes is less important that its reception by the public/IT managers/CIOs. > O > It is especially the fact that Compaq chose to publish this report to the SEC P > because it supported the merger even though it was very damning to VMS that isC > important here. It means that Compaq doesn't mind/care when thoset7 > report-producing outfits portray VMS very negatively.t > P > If those 35 engineers working for a few years on that port to a hype-ware chipO > causes a delay in the completion of the unix compatibility (DII-COE) then VMSe	 > loses. | > O > By the time intel might release a palatable chip with VMS actually running on I > it in configurations that compete against alpha, VMS customers may have P > already had in invest in EV7 wildfire boxes and they are not likely to migrate# > to that IA64 thing any time soon.v    C 	True... no more than if someone just purchased GS320s.  They would ? 	be doing incremental upgrades to EV69 if CPU horsepower becamelD 	inadequate or more than likely plugging more into their SAN fabric.  @ 	But one of my main points can't be ignored.  Cross-architectureA 	VMS clusters are common , adding another architecture isn't thatYC 	difficult, nor costly, and I suspect Itanium servers will be quitee! 	a bit cheaper than AlphaServers.   H 	I think there is a great overlooked in examining paradigms.  The WintelE 	way is to buy servers .. many of them and structure your applicationpC 	accordingly... VMS has never been part of that paradigm.  However,oE 	it will benefit immensely.  After all , those "rabbit" servers (keepp@ 	getting more and more of them) have to stay cheap or the WintelG 	paradigm and the cost center it generates and supports will break downd5 	and Wintel certainly isn't going to let that happen.O   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 06:05:27 GMTc* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking-C Message-ID: <Ha4G7.161142$b47.16924032@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   6 Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:oYpTLxM4ZVJR@eisner.encompasserve.org...1   ...5  A > But one of my main points can't be ignored.  Cross-architecture:B > VMS clusters are common , adding another architecture isn't that > difficult, nor costly,  I It may not be all that costly for *Compaq* to add the IPF architecture totJ VMS's repertoire, but that cost will pale in comparison with the aggregateD cost across all ISVs and customers of porting their applications andG installations to it (unless most don't bother to).  If indeed there areaJ anything like 400,000 VMS installations, an average porting cost of just aG few hundred dollars would likely exceed Compaq's costs - and the *real*nJ average porting cost is much more likely to be at least a couple of orders of magnitude higher.  ,  and I suspect Itanium servers will be quite" > a bit cheaper than AlphaServers.  G I'm getting tired of hearing this garbage:  please analyze exactly whataI server components will cost less (and how much) and compare it with totali& server cost before repeating it again.  L Enterprise servers aren't something one can build in a garage shop like PCs:H they have strict characterization, validation, and RAS requirements thatL aren't compatible with high-volume, low-cost production at either the box orJ the individual component level, and those costs persist regardless of whatH processors happen to be in the center of it all (and eclipse the cost of those processors).  A The cost of the Alpha processors in a current mid-range or better D AlphaServer is a *small* percentage of the whole.  Replace them withI McKinleys and the box price won't change significantly (unless you try to-K recoup the cost of developing the McKinley version, in which case the pricer6 will go *up*) - even if you *give the McKinleys away*.  L Eventually, when a lot more of the glue has migrated onto the processor chipL (as it already has in POWER4 and will next year in EV7 and Hammer), it *may*I become possible to start producing higher-end server boxes at lower costssJ (and where the processors contribute more significantly to the box price).F But IPF won't have such a product before 2005, and until then all thatC high-quality glue (and other high-quality box content) is what willd1 determine the price of all but low-end IPF boxes.    > I > I think there is a great overlooked in examining paradigms.  The WintelsF > way is to buy servers .. many of them and structure your applicationD > accordingly... VMS has never been part of that paradigm.  However, > it will benefit immensely.  K That might have been true back in 1997, when IPF was originally supposed totF hit the streets and dazzle the world.  But now it's the end of 2001, aL usable IPF member won't appear until sometime next year, and IBM has alreadyK had notable success in teaching customers that *even if* they buy into thatrL paradigm the most cost-effective, reliable, and hassle-free way to implementJ it is to run a bunch Linux servers on a single (or mirrored) z-Series box.  L There may be a few places where a server farm still makes sense, but in mostG of those an IA32- or Hammer-based farm will make more sense than an IPFaH farm.  'Fraid IFP missed the boat on that source of volume - and on most others as well.e   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:56:50 -0500 9 From: Matthew Doremus <Matthew.Doremus@Compaq.Com.NoSpam>tB Subject: Re: CSWS/Apache v1.1:  SSL what commands are implemented?1 Message-ID: <3BE84082.4D0CD9D6@Compaq.Com.NoSpam>d  	 Hi Lance,   P    The easiest thing to do in this situation is to move the MOD_SSL.CONF includeS statement closer to the beginning of your HTTPD.CONF file.  This will allow for theiO LoadModule of mod_ssl.exe_alpha before you attempt to use any SSL directives ini subsequent directory contexts.   Matthew Doremuso OpenVMS Engineeringe Compaq Computer Corporationo
 Nashua, NH  * "j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818" wrote:  L > I've got a pretty much default installation of CSWS v1.1 based upon Apache= > installed here, with SSL support as it came out-of-the-box.r >iN > But when I try to use the SSLRequireSSL directive on a directory that I wantK > to be certain is only accessed with https:// instead of http://, I get an I > error citing that directive as possibly misspelled or its module is nots > included.t > L > Looking at the standard configuration, it looks like the mod_ssl.conf fileJ > that gets pulled into the configuration doesn't get pulled in until wellI > AFTER my directories where I want to apply the SSLRequireSSL directive.  > J > Not being an Apache expert yet, can I re-cite the directories to put theI > SSLRequireSSL directive in AFTER or DURING my mod_ssl.conf parsing, ando > just put in a <directory ...>o >                 SSLRequireSSLn >                 </directory> > for each one, T > or do I need to move the include of the mod_ssl.conf file to BEFORE my directories. > which need the extra protection are defined? >EO > +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+nO > | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu |eO > | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          |nO > | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          |cO > | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         |aO > | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       |uO > | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close |0O > | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            |sO > | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      |rO > +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+t; >                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]n4 > <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>L > <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> >V > -- >       /"\s% >       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGNd# >        X        AGAINST HTML MAILr >       / \n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 03:18:51 GMTt) From: martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt)t Subject: Disk Defragmenterss8 Message-ID: <3be8a5e4.199870047@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>  D Has anyone had any experience with Compaq's DFO product? I have usedD both Diskeeper and PerfectDisk, but don't know anything about DFO. IF am currently looking at which product would be suitable for some VAXes3 which is currently not running any defrag software.i  B Any information, such as CPU utilisation, performance, and general) philosophy of operation, would be useful.a   ---t Martin Huntl Systems Administrator  Independent Newspapers Limited
 Wellington New Zealando     ---m Martin Huntr Systems Administratorf Independent Newspapers Limited
 Wellington New Zealandu   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 22:11:25 -0600o+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h Subject: Re: Disk Defragmentersc3 Message-ID: <4OcrJgM7x1cE@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  d In article <3be8a5e4.199870047@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>, martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt) writes:F > Has anyone had any experience with Compaq's DFO product? I have usedF > both Diskeeper and PerfectDisk, but don't know anything about DFO. IH > am currently looking at which product would be suitable for some VAXes5 > which is currently not running any defrag software.u > D > Any information, such as CPU utilisation, performance, and general+ > philosophy of operation, would be useful.  >   H I've used all three and am currenlty using DFO.  Ever since the MOVEFILEB primitive showed up defraggers have been pretty reliable.  The DFOE SCRIPT takes a bit of getting used to, but like most VMS stuff followtE the examples and you will be okay.  It supports exclusions, etc.  Allo and all it works well.   				Robi   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 03:06:14 GMTW& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: eco notices= Message-ID: <Gy1G7.30112$zK1.8493036@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>   G Is anyone else getting deluged with eco notices from "system PRIVILEGEDiK account" that are apparently in HTML code instead of text?  I have receivedr8 several of them tonight.  It is kind of ironic actually.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 03:36:46 GMTsL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: eco notices8 Message-ID: <00A04A82.D57B6432@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  f In article <Gy1G7.30112$zK1.8493036@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:H >Is anyone else getting deluged with eco notices from "system PRIVILEGEDL >account" that are apparently in HTML code instead of text?  I have received9 >several of them tonight.  It is kind of ironic actually.t >n With the subject line "Compaq"  I (Lots of help there.  It looks like they're repeats, too; at least so far % as I can read the javascript by eye.)b   Eight so far tonight.e   -- Aland  O ===============================================================================f0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056hM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 00:09:39 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: eco notices4 Message-ID: <1011107000410.355A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  > On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  h > In article <Gy1G7.30112$zK1.8493036@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:J > >Is anyone else getting deluged with eco notices from "system PRIVILEGEDN > >account" that are apparently in HTML code instead of text?  I have received; > >several of them tonight.  It is kind of ironic actually.t > >p  > With the subject line "Compaq" > K > (Lots of help there.  It looks like they're repeats, too; at least so farL' > as I can read the javascript by eye.)t  H They're not repeats, but there are lots of them!  (IIRC 17 for VMS and 8G for Tru64/DEC Unix.)  *After* a whole bunch of them I got two messages,yG one for each OS, saying that they are *about* to resend the dropped ECOhE notifications from Sept-Oct.  (Remember when the ECO mailing list wasa broken?)  D It looks like they have about 20 pages of HTML at the front of each,5 before you get to the actual text of the ECO summary.t  A Anyone want to give odds on them "helping" us by resending all 25 8 messages without the HTML sometime in the next few days?   > Eight so far tonight.p > 	 > -- Alanl   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 09:29:55 -0600+ From: "David Lee" <teamosan@inet.att.co.kr>  Subject: FORMATTING A FLOPPY+ Message-ID: <9s9utv$4nu$1@news1.kornet.net>o  3 Does anyone know the answers to these two questions,  ' 1) I am trying to format a floppy using        $init dva0: test it kept giving me this error,    %init - F- Format, [Invalid media format] What does that mean?  H 2) Do you know if there is a software/freeware that allow you to convertL from VMS to DOS.  I want to be able take files from an Alpha machine running% VMS 7.2 and use it on the NT machine.t   Thank you very much.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 00:53:31 GMTG2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY3 Message-ID: <fC%F7.1330$RL6.33956@news.cpqcorp.net>t  Y In article <9s9utv$4nu$1@news1.kornet.net>, "David Lee" <teamosan@inet.att.co.kr> writes:o4 :Does anyone know the answers to these two questions :c( :1) I am trying to format a floppy using :      $init dva0: testw :it kept giving me this errort- :   %init - F- Format, [Invalid media format]t :What does that mean?P   $ HELP/MESSAGE/STATUS=188t    FORMAT,  invalid media format  '   Facility:     SYSTEM, System Servicesa  J   Explanation:  An I/O operation failed because the data media is not in aJ                 format that the device driver expected. If this message isH                 associated with a status code returned by a request to aH                 magnetic tape, the format specified by the last set tapeH                 characteristics function is not implemented in the slave                 controller.t  D   User Action:  If the error occurred while initializing a diskette,L                 reissue the INITIALIZE command using the /DENSITY qualifier.L                 Otherwise, verify the physical data pack, reel, or cartridgeK                 to ensure that the correct data media is mounted. Contact ad;                 Compaq support representative if necessary.v    I :2) Do you know if there is a software/freeware that allow you to convert M :from VMS to DOS.  I want to be able take files from an Alpha machine runningt& :VMS 7.2 and use it on the NT machine.  K   The information on this topic in the OpenVMS FAQ will be of interest, and'L   specifically "UTIL2.  How do I access a MS-DOS floppy disk from OpenVMS?".  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:41:18 -0800r' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>i; Subject: Hewlett family gives two thumbs down to the mergera+ Message-ID: <3BE83CDE.38CF9BBC@caltech.edu>@  H The Hewlett family just gave Carly and Curly two big thumbs down.   See:  N http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2822783,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:10:53 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ? Subject: Re: Hewlett family gives two thumbs down to the mergert* Message-ID: <3BE843CD.6334B76F@virgin.net>   David Mathog wrote:t  J > The Hewlett family just gave Carly and Curly two big thumbs down.   See: >eP > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2822783,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01 >e   And just read the reasoning:  R            Walter Hewlett, a director of HP, and the William R. Hewlett Trust have' decided to vote against the transactionyR            because the deal would give HP more exposure to the low-margin personal  computer business and dilute theP            value of the lucrative printer business. Hewlett said the William and& Flora Hewlett Foundation has reached a=            preliminary conclusion to vote against the merger.g   > ====  O And Carly and Curly appear to be for it *because* the deal would give them morewM exposure to the low-margin PC market. As I've said before they're nuts but at  least the Hewlett family isn't.   N In what other industry would the main players spend 20 years fighting in a lowK margin market to destroy their own bread and butter products with something K inferior. In what other industry would the greats bow down to a domineering-N upstart for nearly two decades and then *continue* to want to do so even afterG that company has been found to have been acting illegaly in suppressingaN competition. It's really beyond me. And the Aberdeen Group seems to accept theP above and then advise they continue to "embrace" Microsoft despite the fact thatJ most of the customers on VMS, Unix etc are there specifically because theyP *choose* not to use MS products for critical functions. And they use our support= money to enhance the domineering company's position. Bizarre!i  O It's like you tried to buy a truck from Ford and they sold you a repainted YugodQ instead promising they would upgrade it to a truck as time went on by asking Yugo-H to extend it bit by bit while Ford shut down the truck factory. Madness.     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:41:23 +00004% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c? Subject: Re: Hewlett family gives two thumbs down to the mergere* Message-ID: <3BE84AF3.82A0D549@virgin.net>   David Mathog wrote:f  J > The Hewlett family just gave Carly and Curly two big thumbs down.   See: >   L A quick check of shares shows that HWP shares jumped 20% on the news and CPQI dropped 15% although recovered slightly. The market thinks Compaq will bee% decimated if this doesn't go through.a   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 13:04:06 -0800o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)7 Subject: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!,= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111061304.24ccb8ba@posting.google.com>u  < business news out says hewlett family thinks merger would be< bad because of compaqs troubled low end pc business and said. hp should concentrate on the high end area ...  > i wonder if hp really ever was serious about buying compaq ...? maybe they only wanted to destroy alpha so they could move intoa= the high end with hp-ux on itanium and try to destroy some ofu; the vms and tru64 momentum ... maybe that's why people herei@ and on tru64 board reported hp sales staff stating vms and tru64< would be killed ... carly conned capellas into selling alpha? so the junk itanic platform could be saved by alpha secrets ando, engineers ... what about this terry shannon?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:18:38 -07003 From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@west.raytheon.com>a, Subject: Hewlett family votes against mergerF Message-ID: <OF66E24078.B447CB4E-ON07256AFC.0069E08E@rsc.raytheon.com>  / This just popped up on the wires.  Interesting?a   dave.i  D PALO ALTO, Calif., Nov. 6 /PRNewswire/ -- Walter B. Hewlett, EleanorF Hewlett Gimon, Mary Hewlett Jaffe and The William R. Hewlett Revocable> Trust announced today that they intend to vote their shares ofJ Hewlett-Packard Company against the proposed merger of Hewlett-Packard andI Compaq Computer Corporation if the transaction is brought before Hewlett-)I Packard's stockholders for a vote. Mr. Hewlett also announced that he hasoJ been informed by an independent committee of The William and Flora HewlettK Foundation that the Foundation has reached a preliminary conclusion to vote . its Hewlett-Packard shares against the merger.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:13:50 GMTx6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>. Subject: Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.1E Message-ID: <O8_F7.21087$hZ.1943070@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>.  L Another point.  VMS 6.2 was the last VMS 6x version.  I used this as our VAXK final o/s upgrade, as part of our Y2K project.  You can go to 6.2 from 6.0.dE Found several annoying tape issues on 6.1 went away with the upgrade.0  J Other than that, as noted the upgrade kit needs to be either on tape (uglyG ugly ugly) or in [000000] on a device.  Make sure you have a standalonenK backup (or three) and test standalone backup kit to make sure you can boot.i     -- Andy Bustamanteb Remove the ASCII 95s to reply(      4 "The CO" <askme@somewhere.in.oz.au> wrote in message, news:BKnF7.4589$w61.222724@ozemail.com.au...K > I know this is almost silly to talk of VMS 6.1 as an upgrade, however....a > H > I finally managed to get my 6.1 savesets off 9 track and on to a drive wherel > they are easier to access.K > I've never tried to upgrade a working system before.   Is there an onlinee' > reference or something I can look at? C > I'm particularly concerned about what will break in the process..e >g > Cheers >8 > Geoff Roberts. > Computer Systems Manager > Saint Mark's College > Port Pirie, South Australiav8 > geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au >  >y >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:31:49 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.13 Message-ID: <Fp_F7.1326$RL6.33964@news.cpqcorp.net>o  ~ In article <O8_F7.21087$hZ.1943070@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> writes:7 :Another point.  VMS 6.2 was the last VMS 6x version.  u  I   Actually not, in a fashion -- OpenVMS VAX V7.0 was not a major release.dH   (We debated calling the release V6.3 on OpenVMS VAX, but figured that F   would be more confusing than keeping the version number in parallel H   with the OpenVMS Alpha releases -- as a result of that choice, we now J   simply have to explain that OpenVMS VAX V7.0 is not a major release. :-)  G   On a system running OpenVMS VAX V6.0, I'd follow the sequence in the wF   OpenVMS FAQ to upgrade to V7.3 -- I'd upgrade to current.  User-modeH   and kernel-mode code is expected to continue to operate, and to easilyG   survive the upgrade.  (The only aspects of V7.3 that I know can be a iI   problem for a few sites is the contractually-required removal of Adobe /G   Display Postscript support, and the explicit version checks that are o)   built into recent Oracle Rdb releases.)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:22:07 +0530$ From: "upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com>@ Subject: Information about the files accessed by an application.3 Message-ID: <S53G7.1335$RL6.34010@news.cpqcorp.net>r  @ Is it possible to get information about the files accessed by an application?  B e.g., Assume you execute an exe. While this starts executing, thisH application reads some configuration files. Using the information in theI configuration files, the application spawns another application. Is therelJ any command on VMS which gives information about the files opened, spawned etc.?H  
 With regards,t	 Upadhyayad   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 04:14:18 +0100a2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Lost in MACRO; Message-ID: <3be8a70a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>    Hi,-  F to squeeze some more performance out of ht://Dig, I identified a shortG routine where HTDIG.EXE spends about 5% of process time, and decided toDA rewrite it in MACRO. It all looks quite good, apart from a linkeryF warning I can't get rid of, and that is a MMS showstopper. I'd hate to use /IGNORE=WARNING. So:   The C++ I hook into:   #ifdef __VMS7 extern "C" unsigned int dictionary_hashcode(char *key);h #endif  , unsigned int Dictionary::hashCode(char *key) {n #ifdef __VMS$     return dictionary_hashcode(key); #elsel     ...p #endif }t    % The important parts of the .MAR file:l  ;         .TITLE  DICTIONARY_HASHCODE - Calculate a hash coden         .IDENT  /V1.0/   ; Macro Library Callsm         $DSCDEF    ; External Definitions         .DISABLE        GLOBAL$         .EXTERNAL       OTS$CVT_TI_L   ; Local Data Definitions3         .PSECT  DHC_DATA, QUAD, PIC, RD, WRT, NOEXEj ...R   ; Hash Code Routine 3         .PSECT  DHC_CODE, QUAD, PIC, RD, NOWRT, EXE 3         .CALL_ENTRY     LABEL=DICTIONARY_HASHCODE,-.%                         INPUT=<R16>,-)#                         OUTPUT=<R0>e ...i#         .END    DICTIONARY_HASHCODE   G The object file created then goes into LIBHT.OLB (the same library thatmH contains DICTIONARY.OBJ). When linking against that library, it barks on me:s  # CXXLINK /EXECUTABLE=htfuzzy.exe ...a htfuzzy.obj, ...# [-.HTLIB]LIBHT/INCLUDE=HTWORDTYPE,-e [-.HTLIB]LIBHT/LIBRARY,...1 %LINK-W-MULTFR, multiply defined transfer addresse<         in module DICTIONARY_HASHCODE file <path>LIBHT.OLB;1  J (The /INCLUDE is necessary for some weak symbol in HTWORDTYPE that doesn't get resolved without it.)     Thanks in advance for any clues.   cu,h   Martin  I P.S.: If I do ignore the warning, PCA tells me I've done the right thing.w --  D                     | Martin Vorlaender    |    VMS & WNT programmer-   Smiert Spamionem  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.derD                     |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/4                     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 11:14:51 -0800e( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: Microsoft co-founder establishes DEC archive site= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111061114.3f474266@posting.google.com>1  e Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<u99futo77ld0tevhimbrh4kr64eaa19mrr@4ax.com>...:D > The following was just posted in alt.sys.pdp10. Hmm maybe with hisG > interest in all things DEC we could persuade him to buy VMS and Alphai > and take on Mr Gates...i > 9 > Announcing a new Web and ftp site for PDP-10 material -s > http://pdp10.paulallen.com.a > H > Paul G. Allen, co-founder of Microsoft and PDP-10 enthusiast/developer > isA > creating a new Web site to provide easy-to-use PDP-10 files andmG > documentation. After loading and testing various simh configurations,t > a DSKBE > image for simh with a robust configuration, a monitor that supportsA
 > printingC > and serial logins and a DSKC file for user storage, have all been= > posted to  > the site.I > D > The TOAD-1 XKLeTen.paulallen.com will be moving soon to a location
 > where it> > can again be accessed from the internet. Stay tuned for more > information. > 7 > For questions and comments mailto:pdp10@paulallen.com=  H i just emailed him on doing just that ... if everyone here would join inO instead of pondering unix and linux all the time, it could become a reality ...c, paul allen has the money and is no dummy ...   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 14:42:05 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)0> Subject: Re: Microsoft co-founder establishes DEC archive site3 Message-ID: <WdsOrGyLvFTL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <d7791aa1.0111061114.3f474266@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  J > i just emailed him on doing just that ... if everyone here would join inQ > instead of pondering unix and linux all the time, it could become a reality ...y. > paul allen has the money and is no dummy ...  ' Not before you learn how to capitalize.    ------------------------------   Date: 06 Nov 2001 20:13:05 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>t( Subject: Re: Monitoring CPU usage in DCL0 Message-ID: <9s9g8h$8oe@dispatch.concentric.net>   I am busy on projects.: Here are some notes I have used to save and playback data.4 I set up a MONITOR_DIR to store procedures and data.@ I use parameters P1 P2 P3 and P4 for beginning and ending times.5 You can Monitor IO, Monitor System, Monitor Disk etc."   $!Save pass:# $ WNODE_NAME = F$GETSYI("NODENAME")o* $ WNODE_QUALIFIER = "/NODE= " + WNODE_NAMEI $! flush every 60 seconds (for cluster shared write to one analysis file) 7 $! noinput = no previous input recording being analyzed-$ $! monitor interval every 30 seconds3 $ MONITOR IO /ALL /INTERVAL= 30 'WNODE_QUALIFIER' -u3    /BEGINNING= 'P1':'P2':00 /ENDING= 'P3':'P4':00 -@!    /FLUSH_INTERVAL= 60 /NOINPUT -n    /NODISPLAY - <    /RECORD= MONITOR_DIR:MONITOR_IO_'WNODE_NAME'_'P1''P2'.DAT       $!Analysis/playback done later:i $ WTIME = "1404"# $ WNODE_NAME = F$GETSYI("NODENAME")f8 $ TYPE MONITOR_DIR:MONITOR_DISK_'WNODE_NAME'_'WTIME'.DAT $!
 $!PlaybackC $ MONITOR /INPUT= MONITOR_DIR:MONITOR_IO_'WNODE_NAME'_'WTIME'.DAT -a>     ALL_CLASSES /DISPLAY= MONITOR_DIR:MONITOR_IO_'WTIME'.TEXT;C $ SEARCH  MONITOR_DIR:MONITOR_IO_*.TEXT  "Direct I/O" /WINDOW=(4,0)- $! $!Playback summaryD $ MONITOR /INPUT= MONITOR_DIR:MONITOR_IO_'WNODE_NAME'_'WTIME'.DAT  -D     ALL_CLASSES /NODISPLAY /SUMMARY= MONITOR_DIR:MONITOR_IOSUM.TEXT;& $ TYPE MONITOR_DIR:MONITOR_IOSUM.TEXT;  # Hope that helps to get you started.t   Jim Strehlow, jimS@data911.com Data911.com / SunviewMobile.comt Alameda, CAt  / "Let them do their worst. We will do our best."     / "Thomas Knox" <vms@vushta.com> wrote in messageo7 news:a82e42f8.0111060916.68396e3d@posting.google.com...  > Hello, >nH > I am trying to write a DCL script that will simply display the currentC > CPU utilization %, much as you can get from a "monitor system" oriG > "monitor cluster" command. All I need to get is the current CPU %. So / > far, all of my attempts have been frustrated.  > H > Can anyone point me in the direction to go? I'm running OpenVMS 7.1 on4 > a VAX cluster (yes, we're still using real VAXen). > " > Any help is appreciated. Thanks. > Tomu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 22:51:19 -0500s/ From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@crosslink.net>i: Subject: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech!= Message-ID: <gurman-7D8AD0.22511906112001@news.crosslink.net>r  H     Has anyone elase started receiving the Patch notifications in HTML? > I received a slew today. Or perhaps the right term is a sewer.  F     Does anyone who sends these little gems out know that most of the B people reaidng them (OK, I'm guessing) still use the OpenVMS MAIL  utility to read their e-mail?e  D     Is there even an option to say NO to HTML bandwidth-spam? Where?  D     Perhaps the august Messrs. Hoffman and Kleinsorge know where to 	 point us?        TIA,                     Joe Gurman   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:40:26 +1030: From: "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au>> Subject: RE: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech!N Message-ID: <07103702F27FD411ACA30000F808545257CB11@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>  I The HTML is not working in Outlook either since the message is being sent-5 (or maybe being received?) as a text message anyway. 1  , Looks like something has broken somewhere...   Cheers,u
 Chris Barrattf   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Joseph B. Gurman [mailto:gurman@crosslink.net]( > Sent: Wednesday, 7 November 2001 14:21 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < > Subject: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech! >  > 3 >     Has anyone elase started receiving the Patch c > notifications in HTML? -@ > I received a slew today. Or perhaps the right term is a sewer. > H >     Does anyone who sends these little gems out know that most of the D > people reaidng them (OK, I'm guessing) still use the OpenVMS MAIL  > utility to read their e-mail?t > F >     Is there even an option to say NO to HTML bandwidth-spam? Where? > F >     Perhaps the august Messrs. Hoffman and Kleinsorge know where to  > point us?r > 
 >     TIA, >  >                   Joe Gurman >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 16:09:45 -0800i' From: del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan)t; Subject: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCLl= Message-ID: <98342c9f.0111061609.3d1850b1@posting.google.com>r  F I'm trying to ready an RMS Index file and most of the fields are fine,? but there is one field that is a binary value which should be aiE longword representation of a date;  I'm having trouble reading it andbD have been unsuccessful.   I thought I could extract it from the line: and re-format it with f$fao but this hasn't worked either.   -Del   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 18:44:47 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s? Subject: Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCLr3 Message-ID: <uLr+5k0g5ppK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <98342c9f.0111061609.3d1850b1@posting.google.com>, del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan) writes:yH > I'm trying to ready an RMS Index file and most of the fields are fine,A > but there is one field that is a binary value which should be a G > longword representation of a date;  I'm having trouble reading it andcF > have been unsuccessful.   I thought I could extract it from the line< > and re-format it with f$fao but this hasn't worked either.  B Anything from VMS with FAO in the name can only interpret standardB VMS date format, which takes up a quadword.  You will need to findB the program that wrote the file so you can determine how they usedB just a longword to represent a date.  There are many possibilities> but none of them are a standard VMS format handled by SYS$FAO.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 01:06:54 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)? Subject: Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCLe3 Message-ID: <OO%F7.1331$RL6.33745@news.cpqcorp.net>   g In article <98342c9f.0111061609.3d1850b1@posting.google.com>, del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan) writes: G :I'm trying to ready an RMS Index file and most of the fields are fine,C@ :but there is one field that is a binary value which should be a% :longword representation of a date;     F   That "longword representation of a date" value is probably (but not F   certainly) the number of seconds since 1-Jan-1970 GMT; that value is   probably a C time_t date.  "  G   OpenVMS native code typically uses a quadword format for binary time o   storage.    I   Newer applications running on OpenVMS may be using the (opaque) binary c   UTC format.  o  E   If the application is exchanging dates with other systems, then the.D   OpenVMS native and the UTC text format representations are common.  . :...I thought I could extract it from the line; :and re-format it with f$fao but this hasn't worked either.e  I   The f$fao and sys$fao calls do not recognize nor can the calls process  #   the time_t (C epoch) date format.s  K   Probably the simplest approach is to create a small C application widget iJ   that the DCL can call to read and reformat that date, and to return the =   value to the procedure via a DCL symbol and lib$set_symbol.-  I   You might want to look at code in this area, as this time_t date -- if "F   the value is interpreted as a signed longword -- will overflow circa   19-Jan-2038 03:14:07 GMT..    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:11:03 -0600pC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>)? Subject: Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCLhI Message-ID: <craig.berry-B4F191.23110306112001@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>o  = In article <98342c9f.0111061609.3d1850b1@posting.google.com>,a)  del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan) wrote:   H > I'm trying to ready an RMS Index file and most of the fields are fine,A > but there is one field that is a binary value which should be aaG > longword representation of a date;  I'm having trouble reading it and F > have been unsuccessful.   I thought I could extract it from the line< > and re-format it with f$fao but this hasn't worked either.  A As others have pointed out, it ordinarily takes two longwords (a .H quadword) to represent a VMS binary date.  If what you have is a 32-bit G Unix "seconds since the epoch" date, then something like the following rG might work, though where I have "0123" be sure to put in a real 4-byte e: binary string that you have parsed out of your input line.   $ type epoch2ascii.com $ seconds = f$cvui(0,32,"0123")  $ minutes = seconds / 60" $ seconds = seconds - minutes * 60 $ hours = minutes / 60  $ minutes = minutes - hours * 60 $ days = hours / 24  $ hours = hours - days * 24t $ write sys$output -@   f$cvtime("1-jan-1970 +''days'-''hours':''minutes':''seconds'") $ @epoch2ascii 1997-03-21 06:56:48.00    E This does not include a timezone calculation, which could be done by tD adding or subtracting the right offset from GMT somewhere along the  way.    A Something like this should work in principle but be sure to test gG against data where you know what the answer is supposed to be.  And if kH this is not an epoch date you're dealing with then you'd really have to  tell us more about what it is.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:03:31 -0500 - From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> # Subject: Storage Works Arrays in DC + Message-ID: <sbe7edcc.072@AAASMTA.aaas.org>L  L This came over on Sytex, thought I'd pass it along. ::SIGH:: If only I had = a place to put these...    > X-Sender: mpotter@mailboxt< > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)! > Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:17:24n > To: fug-washdc@Sytex.Net/ > From: "Matthew R. Potter" <mpotter@atpco.com>n> > Subject: fug-washdc Anyone want two DEC Stoargeworks RAID=20 > Arrays?(PICKUP D.C AREA ONLY)v > Precedence: bulk >eI > I've got two DEC storage works RAID arrays bolth loaded w/ Drives in=20 E > their canisters. Aprrox 90 gig each per RAID, these are nice RAID =.	 units,=20nH > dual power supplies, dual controlers, diffrental scsi, documentation = and=20 > cables included. > E > The RAIDS do every type of raid(0,1,5) you can have multiple hot=20tI > swapable drives, etc... These are nice RAID controller units.  We are =e just=20., > getting rid of all our Alpha and DEC gear. >e( > These work under Solaris, OSF/1 etc... >oH > I want these out of my office. Make an offer, I'm not asking for much,H > maybe trade for a some SPARC gear(sun4m or better). I just really wantJ > these out of my office. The units are located in springfeild virginia. = YoulJ > would need a pickup truck to get these two units or a large car. email = meH > if interested. If anyone is interested you could swing by and take a = look$ > at these any time during the week. >z > Matt   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2001 22:40:30 -08007 From: vmae@themail.com (Van)! Subject: Re: Undo disk Initializen; Message-ID: <a954c96.0111062240.331462c@posting.google.com>3  m hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<LDBF7.1288$RL6.33051@news.cpqcorp.net>...t] > In article <a954c96.0111012221.501845e1@posting.google.com>, vmae@themail.com (Van) writes:oL > :I know very good undeleted utilities [expurgated]I used its for restoringH > :of my files deleted accidantly because hard disk partition structures > :was damaged.iB > :My files have been restored.This program has a few utilites for< > :restoring types of file systems. Look site...[expurgated] > J >   The [expurgated] URL and tool is for a Microsoft Windows data recoveryD >   tool, and it may or may not be applicable to the restoration of I >   optical-based storage media on any operating system platform.  It is iI >   definitely not applicable to OpenVMS nor to recovering from an errantd  >   OpenVMS disk initialization. > E >   You will want to avoid mapping Microsoft Windows single-user and nJ >   non-shared file system concepts and tools onto a multi-user operating J >   system, particularly one with support for fully shared disk resources.K >   (Applications anywhere within an OpenVMS Cluster can be writing to the dK >   disk, and the storage "underneath" a file that is errantly deleted can  G >   be quickly reused.  In a simple configuration, you might be able toHF >   recover the file if you quickly get the disk off-line -- in a moreI >   complex configuration and/or with a more active disk, the data in the J >   disk blocks and the contents of the file headers get clobbered as the  >   disk blocks are reused.) > M >   OpenVMS generally does not damage its storage partitions, and the typicalUM >   operations of a multi-user shared file system generally detract somewhat  F >   from the ability to restore from an errant operator command.  WithJ >   OpenVMS and standard read-write media, there are tools around that canL >   (attempt to) resurrect a file struture from an errantly erased -- that'sK >   FDISK to the PC folks -- disk, and there are undelete tools around thatuG >   will attempt to pull a file back together.   (These tools have beenH- >   discussed in various previous threads.)  y > J >   The recommended approach to avoid and recover from these problems (andL >   from catastrophic disk failures) is to a: keep privileges and breakablesH >   away from the untrusted or error-prone, and b: keep system backups.  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  @ Hi! I know very good undeleted utilities R-STUDIO.I used its forD restoring of my files deleted accidantly because hard disk partition structures was damaged.a? My files have been restored.This program has a few utilites for6B restoring types of file systems. Look site http://www.r-tt.com for more information Best regards   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 00:04:50 GMTp& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>' Subject: Re: VMS721_CLIUTL-0200 Status?u= Message-ID: <CU_F7.28029$zK1.8092558@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>a  I Does anyone have a response to Rick's question.   This is very important.   4 "Rick Dyson" <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> wrote in message# news:3BE70577.9F4CA7B6@UIowa.EDU...gI > Does anyone know what the status of this ECO is?  I first had a problemA findingi@ > it (it is listed as a recommend companion of an INSTALL 1 ECO, VMS721_MOUNT96),' > but it then made it onto the servers.A > C > However, there was a early report of it corrupting the QueManagera (QUEMAN.EXE) > displays (i.e., Show Queue). >OJ > Can anyone else confirm this?  I just had a maintanence cycle early this morning H > and skipped it for now, but would like to go back to it if it is OK or they. > fix any problems and release a v3.0 copy. :) > 
 > Regards, > Rick Dyson >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 01:05:27 +0000i1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>a Subject: Re: VMSMail APIs?5 Message-ID: <3BE888D7.3236B74@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>e   David/John M.,@ I'm not trying to solve a problem myself, just commenting on the situation for VMS mail.eF My understanding is that although run time libraries exist for sendingG mail out no similar library exists for the receipt of mail.  The DECnetoF mail object obviously exists but it is my understanding that smtp mailG receipt is kludged onto the side of VMS mail (and may even use the samei$ mechanism as DECnet for all I know).9 As such, there isn't a sys$receive_mail call or anything.    Steve.     david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:i > l > In article <3BDF209A.17B97403@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>, Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> writes:F > >I'm not sure if this response relates to the initial query but..... > >tK > >One thing that I find strange about VMS mail and the APIs for it is that D > >although there are calls for sending mail out from a higher levelK > >language, no such APIs (or, as we used to call them, Run Time Libraries) J > >exist for RECEIVING mail.  So, for example, SMTP mail receipt on VMS is) > >effectively a kludge from what I hear.U > >E	 > >Steve.  > >N > ; > What sort of an API do you want for receiving SMTP mail ?oP > Like in any SMTP mail system you have a daemon (detached process) listening onP > port 25 which deals with receiving the mail and then passes it on for delivery. > to user's mailboxes or forwarding elsewhere. > 2 > Can you explain more fully what you want to do ? >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  > >s" > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > >>t > >> In article <b2faac46.0110090442.79f92342@posting.google.com>, on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles) writes:I > >> >You'll have to log a call with support.  All this information isn'tS% > >> >readily available to customers.T > >> > > >> >Y > >> >paul@wren.cc.kux.edu wrote in message news:<3bc1e63f.18304210@news.cc.ukans.edu>... D > >> >> Where, in manuals, or on-line can one find the VMSMail APIs? > >> >>S > >> >> Thanks!U > >>Q > >> Look at chapter 14 in the OpenVMS Utility Routines manual which is availablea > >> online see :- > >>] > >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/4493/4493pro_contents_002.html#toc_chapter_14e > >> > >> David Webbl > >> VMS and Unix team leadern	 > >> CCSSs > >> Middlesex University  > >a > >--.J > >"A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent likeH > >a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.D > >Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"5 > >               Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"    -- aG "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent likeeE a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.rA Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'" % 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 01:33:24 GMTm2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VMSMail APIs?3 Message-ID: <Eb0G7.1332$RL6.33945@news.cpqcorp.net>i  i In article <3BE888D7.3236B74@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>, Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> writes:.  A :I'm not trying to solve a problem myself, just commenting on theh :situation for VMS mail.G :My understanding is that although run time libraries exist for sendingeH :mail out no similar library exists for the receipt of mail.  The DECnetG :mail object obviously exists but it is my understanding that smtp mail.H :receipt is kludged onto the side of VMS mail (and may even use the same% :mechanism as DECnet for all I know).-: :As such, there isn't a sys$receive_mail call or anything.  H   Applications are in general assumed to wish to avoid knowledge of the J   nuances of sending and receiving SMTP, MAIL-11 or other mail protocols.   K   Details of the protocols are certainly available, and there is certainly tJ   nothing preventing a user from implementing an SMTP client or server -- H   well, other than an existing SMTP server running on the host, that is.  E   Receiving mail directly is not something that a client is normally hH   expected to do, that's the job of the mail server associated with the I   particular protocol.  Incoming mail messages can arrive via an SMTP or sA   DECnet listener and (of course) an incoming connection from an cB   intermediate host or an SMTP client host, and the messages then 9   processed and transfered into the receiver's mail file.s  G   Users can and do regularly use existing APIs to read both new and anyaG   existing mail -- what might be the central item of discussion here inaG   this thread is a missing capability, a way to declare a doorbell AST dI   or similar that would permit an application to immediately receive and oH   process the just-arrived message.  (This notification is arguably now J   available indirectly through some ugly coding, and specifically via the I   use of a broadcast mailbox and the MAIL broadcast class.)  Rather than  F   this (arguably unsupported and obviously ugly) approach, most folks F   simply poll the mail file at periodic intervals -- SMTP itself will D   retry any failed message relay/forwarding operations at specified I   intervals, so a delay of (insert a chosen polling interval) is usually t   not a big deal.n  A   For outgoing mail messages, SMTP uses the MAIL transport image iD   interface -- there are a few examples of callers of this transportF   image API available in the wild -- to get the outgoing mail message D   from the user into a server queue.  SMTP provides a symbiont (eg: B   TCPIP$SMTP_SYMBIONT) which (hopefully and eventually) reads the E   entries -- the mail messages -- off the server queue and sends them1+   along on the way to the destination host.e  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.619 ************************