1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 07 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 620       Contents: ...and the Packard family  RE: Alpha 2100s for free Re: Alpha 2100s for free Backup and open files  Re: Backup tuning  Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees?% Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof) % Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof) % Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof) % Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof) $ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking Comparison of defragmenters  Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: Comparison of defragmenters 9 Re: CSWS/Apache v1.1:  SSL what commands are implemented? ! Disk Block to File Name Converter % Re: Disk Block to File Name Converter % Re: Disk Block to File Name Converter  e-week article Re: e-week article eco patches & defragmentation  eco patches & defragmentation ! Re: eco patches & defragmentation  RE: FORMATTING A FLOPPY  Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY 2 RE: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!; Re: Information about the files accessed by an application.  Re: Lost in MACRO 5 Re: Microsoft co-founder establishes DEC archive site & Name Change of Alpha Server 4000 5/300/ Re: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2 5 Re: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech! 5 Re: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech! 5 Re: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech! 5 Re: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech!  Re: OT - HP's MPE-IX6 Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCL6 Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCL6 Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCL Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs? Two questions on VMS Sort  Re: Undo disk Initialize Re: VMSMail APIs?  Re: VMSMail APIs? ( Re: VMSMAIL file, on a write-locked disk. ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around2 Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around2 Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around2 Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around2 Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around2 Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around2 Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around2 Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:37:05 +0100 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>" Subject: ...and the Packard family* Message-ID: <3BE97141.6014F6EC@dplanet.ch>   Item on The Register at H http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/22704.html  starts out by saying   C 'This is getting serious: a leading member of the Packard family is A "likely" to vote against the proposed Hewlett-Packard takeover of 6 Compaq, adding another 1.3 per cent to the "No" camp.'   It quotes an interview found at H http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/depth/hp110701.htm in which David- Packard also gave the takeover a thumbs down.    A quote ---   @ Packard said he has concerns about HP's recent direction, and heC believes the massive layoffs planned for the combined company would F violate the founding principles of Palo Alto-based HP. ``Bill and Dave@ never developed a premeditated business strategy that treated HP# employees as expendable,'' he said.      Hmmm ...     John McLean    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 09:47:24 +01007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> ! Subject: RE: Alpha 2100s for free O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C698C@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>    > , > > >I'll even volunteer my University.  :-) > > H > > My former employer (the University of Abertay Dundee) turned off its? > > last VMS Alphaserver (2100) a few months ago. They made no   > attempt to= > > find a new home for it. Instead a member of IT staff was   > instructed to @ > > "drill holes" through it to prevent its re-use. No it never  > contained   > > especially sensitive data,  	 > > >bill  >   D > sure, trash the disks if you are really paranoid, but trashing the/ > rest of the hardware is surely braindamaged?   > ____________________ >  > 8 > An afterthought... Is a member of the IT staff really 3 > entitled to "drill holes" through an Alphaserver?  >   I I think that someone that drills holes on computers should be banned from & working in the IT bussiness for life.   V I can understand the point that giving away to students or IT staff can give problems.[ But for sure the University of Abertay Dundee must have a big budget problem. Or they have  X too many money and are give it away or no money at all or a very big management problem.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:26:22 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ! Subject: Re: Alpha 2100s for free 8 Message-ID: <726iut4gjohuqislj9robj3coap04ckk5m@4ax.com>  < On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:02:22 +0200, mauf@uhu.unizar.es wrote:    I >An afterthought... Is a member of the IT staff really entitled to "drill  >holes" through an Alphaserver?   @ Not as the rules stood when I left and as the circumstances wereC explained to me. However defying the librarians  who now control IT 3 policy there would be extremely career threatening.   = Here's a couple of quotes from the official Abertay web site:    F "To make the most effective use of our C&IT infrastructure and provide= responsive services to our students and staff, the University C established Information Services in 1996. This service combines the D information provision of the library with the technical expertise ofD computing staff, together with the creative design, reprographic and@ multimedia expertise of media services staff. Students therefore? benefit from the provision of a high quality integrated support B service for teaching, learning and research within the University"   and   E "Welcome to Information Services at the University of Abertay Dundee. A We represent the University's strategic commitment to independent ? learning in the digital age, in the same way that the Library & F Information Services Building will express that commitment through the physical environment"   E Starting to get the picture? They also boast that they spend twice as D much per head on IT per student as the University of Oxford. Nice to% see efficient use of resources there!    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 08:17:26 -0700 ) From: "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com>  Subject: Backup and open files: Message-ID: <20011107.081725.1350573793.22723@hotmail.com>   Good Morning all!   = I have a lil question....here at work we use CONNEX ODBC data F connectivity for data pulls.  We have been sheduling our backup aroundH these data pulls, but now it seems I'm running out of hours.  During theA backup verification pass I know that any altered files will error D out....but will open files do the same thing?  I'm not thinking they, will...but I'd like to be sure.  Thanks all!   James    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:17:50 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Backup tuning) Message-ID: <3BE90A4E.1371D655@127.0.0.1>    Chris Sharman wrote:  C Chris, you live very close to my second home, CPC at Longridge. :-) 1 (Must get up there soon, need some more gadgets).   A > I've been following the advice in the manuals on tuning backup.   = A word of advice about backup tuning. We have been doing some B experimenting with direct fibre channel attached systems (3rd paty= connection / systems) and part of the testing involved backup E (obviously) and we basically tried to drive the systems to the limit.   E Using the advice given, and that of a couple of articles available on H DSN / AES / WIS from the VMS 5.2 era, that setting values way in excess,2 but pro-rata, does NOT help, it slows things down!  A So when it talks about the '4096' maximum, pro rata all the other G process parameters around that, and you'll be getting the best you can. F We were shovelling data at obscene rates, VMS Engineering have had our
 report AFAIK.   N > Cluster size incidentally is 18. Now I've turned off our 7.1 machine I couldG > reduce that, which I suspect would help with tuning indexed files for 8 > improved lookup performance - any suggestions anyone ?A > Or is the link between cluster size & bucket size unimportant ?   E A good book to read is the "Guide to OpenVMS File Applications" which 6 describes the tuning considerations for indexed files.  F Really what you need to do is try to get index buckets into a multipleD of the cluster size, and the OPTIMIZE script of the FDL editor afterB analysis does this by default, 'flatten files' being the emphasis.  E Very often in data migration when data moves from one cluster size to E another, space is wasted or the index is split up unevenly leading to  performance hits.   E If you do have access to DSN there is another article with an example F MACRO program to analyse the "revectored records" and it's fine on VAX? or Alpha, produces very useful statistics, but read the docs to " understand what it is telling you.  D So the link between cluster size and bucket size is important unlessH maybe you file was created and originally tuned on a disk with a clusterF size that co-incides with the best bucket size. Tuning mail files is aE great way of speeding mail access. ABS is another product using large H indexed files with often inappropriate index bucket sizes. In fact thereH are more indexed files floating around the system than maybe you realise that could benefit from tuning.   C Here's a neat thing though, if you are worried about file integity, H bearing in mind the limitations of CHECKSUM, you can checksum the BEFOREE and AFTER CONVERTED file and the values will be identical, even after ? the indices have been changed, providing an additional level of  confidence in your process.   G Be careful though, my first stab at tuning files resulted in complaints G that the system was too fast. "But I used to go for a cup of coffee..."  --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 05:52:24 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111070552.257045ef@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3BE8B95C.282EB342@fsi.net>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > d > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3BE5F76C.8716C057@fsi.net>... > > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > C > > > > In article <dpeF7.4735$MI.1685953@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, ? > > > >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: 
 > > > > |>A > > > > |> And Gates, Grove, and McNealy would inherit the earth. 
 > > > > |> > > > > N > > > You make my mouth water with such talk. Some others and myself (locally)K > > > are hedging our bets on the chance that Solaris will see a resurgence I > > > and Linux will come into its own in the server space. I'm sorry VMS M > > > can't be there as well, but there's that whole "affordability" obstacle  > > > remaining to be overcome.  > > >  > > P > > what affordability issue?  i am tired of people saying how expensive vms is!Q > > if you shop around you can find very good prices on boxes, licenses, anything = > > you need ... we just last year bought an alphaserver 1200  > J > Clearly, you do not work with enterprise-class equipment in environmentsF > where lives are at stake. Management would never go for such a deal,I > especially after the outage we just had - 9 days over the course of two G > weeks, due to 64-bit PCI riser cards in GS160 (they've been recalled, G > AFAIK, at least at Cerner sites - dunno about Compaq itself, but they J > duplicated in their lab the problem we had which did rather an efficient) > job of scrambling our Oracle database).  > G > My partner was explaining to me today that 1+GHz "fireboxes" are over ? > $100,000 each - not sure what the GS160 istelf was worth new.  > ; > ...and that doesn't BEGIN to discuss VMS license pricing.  > H > Better check a price list before making another post like that, son...  G i can get you used certified gs80 & gs160 boxes for 25-50k depending on J configurations, and as82 and 8400 boxes can still be bought new w/warrantyJ for cheap! ... es40's aren't bad either!  i may not be using the big stuff< (i use alphaserver 800's and 1200's), but i know how to buy!H if you want me to find you a deal, new or used, let me know what you are looking for!   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 05:57:52 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111070557.55b55eb6@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3BE5F8CA.5B35BE46@videotron.ca>...  > Bob Ceculski wrote: J > > all i know is we invested in vms being told we would be supported bothM > > hardware and software and with or without an itanic port we better see it L > > or we will be part of a class action suit and will demand every penny of > > our vms investment back! >  > . > Told ? Do you have anything on legal paper ?  I we have all been told and promised that we would be supported ... the coe I stuff has been thrown in our faces, i commited to vms and i expect compaq E to live up to its promises to customers, if not, they will lose their H credibility completely and we will one day after vms is no longer viableH (10 years?) go to ibm (gag!) or some other linux vendor ... will not use' a client os (windows) for the high end!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 04:05:57 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>. Subject: Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof), Message-ID: <3BE8F975.7090208@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   B > If the HP takeover of Compaq fails, what will happen of Compaq ? > L > If investors lose confidence since Compaq is so inept at building PCs costN > effectively, could Compaq be forced into bankrupcy if it doesn't turn things
 > around ? > J > Or would Compaq be smart enough to downszise itself to have only VMS and& > Tandem (and perhaps restart Tru64) ? > L > Any chance that Compaq might nmot send the EV7 engineers to Intel and haveP > them wirk on EV8 and continue Alpha, except this time, push the hell out of itJ > since Compaq's survival would depend on Compaq maximizing all of its non > wintel assets ?  >  > K > If the HP puchase of Compaq fails, would Compaq be forced to find another N > buyer and if that fails, lower its stock price until a buyer is interested ?= > (lower stock price = sell yor remaining profitable assets).  >   % Could be some interesting times, huh?    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 09:33:23 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof)3 Message-ID: <jIXlpXCplxVQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3BE87817.60A53F50@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  B > If the HP takeover of Compaq fails, what will happen of Compaq ?  F    IMHO the Hewletts are right.  More exposure to the PC market is notF    most companies need right now.  HP should convince Compaq to split,C    buying the profitable lines and allowing the original PC company     to die a natural death.  E    It seems Carly and Mikey can only see that Dell is making a profit 8    in the PC market and assume that means they can, too.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 17:00:21 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>. Subject: Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof)) Message-ID: <3BE968A5.EFF38F09@127.0.0.1>t   Bob Koehler wrote: > ^ > In article <3BE87817.60A53F50@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > D > > If the HP takeover of Compaq fails, what will happen of Compaq ? > H >    IMHO the Hewletts are right.  More exposure to the PC market is notH >    most companies need right now.  HP should convince Compaq to split,E >    buying the profitable lines and allowing the original PC companyq >    to die a natural death.  @ I'm inclined to agree. I reckon if Compaq had split off their PCE division, and Digital's foray into the sector, the remaining 'merged' G company would have been much stronger. I suspect that the very business H we know and love has been propping up the known less profitable areas... --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comk   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:43:18 +0100 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>. Subject: Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof)* Message-ID: <3BE972B6.72A7799E@dplanet.ch>   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Bob Koehler wrote: > >r` > > In article <3BE87817.60A53F50@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > >rF > > > If the HP takeover of Compaq fails, what will happen of Compaq ? > >vJ > >    IMHO the Hewletts are right.  More exposure to the PC market is notJ > >    most companies need right now.  HP should convince Compaq to split,G > >    buying the profitable lines and allowing the original PC companyr > >    to die a natural death. > B > I'm inclined to agree. I reckon if Compaq had split off their PCG > division, and Digital's foray into the sector, the remaining 'merged'-I > company would have been much stronger. I suspect that the very business J > we know and love has been propping up the known less profitable areas... > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot coml    H You're being coy Nic, it's clear from the financials that VMS, Tru64 and) Tandem have been holding Compaq together.S  C I don't have the figures to hand but I think the losses in the PC &rD Windows area add up to about $1 billion in the last 12 to 18 months.     John McLean    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:21:59 GMTe& From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingu@ Message-ID: <X27G7.108917$Hw3.19437595@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0111061316.33214732@posting.google.com...n9 > "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com> wrote in messagee, news:<9s71lb$m28@dispatch.concentric.net>...  ; > If you check the numbers from Compaq, I think you'll find,; > there's been far more spending on VMS development than onn4 > Tru64.  VMS has been getting between $200 and $3007 > million per year.  Tru64 has probably gotten far morea< > marketing dollars (a well publicized $100 million not long5 > ago comes to mind), but its development dollars aree3 > probably less than half those of VMS development.n    I Come on man...you don't actually think that $100 million figure was real.n :)   Keno     -- Ken Farmer, kfarmer@tru64.orgd Tru64.org, http://www.tru64.orgm Tru64.org Newsletter:0; http://www.tru64.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-Registration    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:53:49 +0000r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>y- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingi8 Message-ID: <943iutcnj0b7l1sgckoch64bj56s1d9mul@4ax.com>  C On 6 Nov 2001 10:43:35 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e wrote:   >eC >	A lot of these products are pretty stupid.  They support a broken-A >	version of clustering, whereby you have this monster server andrB >	a hotstandby... I can't speak for SAP (never used it) , but I do@ >	know of a very large application that I was surprised to learn >	works this way..  F Yep, that's the way SAP wants you to work as well. OPS isn't supportedB and neither is RAC yet. In a typical SAP configuration if you needA redundancy then you either have a duplicated hot standby databasedE server or you set up the hot standby on a separate application serverTD and take the performance hit on apps should the main database serverC go down. And this is the method which supposedly highly intelligenttD CEO's of major IT companies think is the only method, Here's a quoteB from Michael Capellas talking to Gartner which has just been filed
 with the SEC:_  D "AS ANYBODY WHO EVER RAN A DATA CENTER KNOWS, IF YOU HAVE A SITE YOUE HAVE A HOT BACKUP. SO YOU WAIT FOR THAT ONE DAY TO TURN IT ON AND YOUhE KEEP ALL THAT CAPACITY IN PLACE FOR THAT ONE DAY YOU MAY NEED TO TURN @ IT ON, WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO KNOW IS IF THE APPLICATION WILL ACTUALLY WORK."a  > Maybe someone should explain exactly how VMS disaster tolerant= clusters work to Mr Capellas. Elsewhere he tells Gartner thate@ Microsoft has the best technology and there's no point in CompaqD competing. As an example he says that MS's database products are theC best on the market. If that's not enough he tells us that Alpha wasg+ dropped because Intel has a better product.   D Capellas hints at one point that all the negativity has been gettingE him down and jokes that he thought he was going to be asked about his.E drink problem. I almost feel sorry for Capellas. The more I read, thegC more I feel he doesn't really believe in what he's doing at all buti has to mouth the words.e  F Also amongst the recent filings we find out that Mike Winkler has been? designated VP Operations of the combined company confirming hiso continuing influence.b   SEC filings for Compaq ate5  http://quicken.elogic.com/sec_filings.asp?ticker=CPQp  
 And for HP ate5  http://quicken.elogic.com/sec_filings.asp?ticker=HWPs       -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:59:56 +0000f% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingv8 Message-ID: <kp4iutcjqg80djrof35r9iut2bdd1c1eme@4ax.com>  B On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:21:59 GMT, "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org> wrote:  ? >"Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message 8 >news:cf15391e.0111061316.33214732@posting.google.com...: >> "Peter Kastner" <kastner@aberdeen.com> wrote in message- >news:<9s71lb$m28@dispatch.concentric.net>...e >n< >> If you check the numbers from Compaq, I think you'll find< >> there's been far more spending on VMS development than on5 >> Tru64.  VMS has been getting between $200 and $300 8 >> million per year.  Tru64 has probably gotten far more= >> marketing dollars (a well publicized $100 million not longN6 >> ago comes to mind), but its development dollars are4 >> probably less than half those of VMS development. >  >1J >Come on man...you don't actually think that $100 million figure was real.  A I'm puzzled by $300 million VMS annual development. Are there 300iE people working for VMS engineering on $1 million a year or something?eE Or 50 on $6 million or what. Ok staffing isn't everything but what onuC earth has VMS engineering been doing with $ 300 million a year.  OrgB have we tagged all of the Alpha chip, systems etc design cost onto VMS?   Anyone clarify?  >u >Ken   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 12:14:58 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking1) Message-ID: <3BE925C2.5BD1516A@127.0.0.1>r   Alan Greig wrote:: > E > On 6 Nov 2001 10:43:35 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)r > wrote:K > >       A lot of these products are pretty stupid.  They support a brokensI > >       version of clustering, whereby you have this monster server and J > >       a hotstandby... I can't speak for SAP (never used it) , but I doH > >       know of a very large application that I was surprised to learn > >       works this way.o > H > Yep, that's the way SAP wants you to work as well. OPS isn't supportedD > and neither is RAC yet. In a typical SAP configuration if you needC > redundancy then you either have a duplicated hot standby database G > server or you set up the hot standby on a separate application serveraF > and take the performance hit on apps should the main database server > go down. ,  G I don't know anything about SAP but what you've said Alan confirms whattE I thought I knew, that SAP is just not geared to any fault tolorance,n% downtime for backups, redundancy, ...   G Why the HELL should anyone want to run it? Vain hope systems remain up?c  H Surely VMS does not need software written with that methodology in mind,4 why should VMS help those who can't help themselves?  F If SAP is being bought because its flavour of the month then the buggyH thinking extends to those who purchase, I notice their [SAP] profits are down this time.u  H Feel free to educate me about the wonders of SAP, but I think you've got an uphill task.e -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 06:09:34 -0800g( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111070609.2118a939@posting.google.com>i  p "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<HoUF7.1318$RL6.33730@news.cpqcorp.net>...M > Alan Greig wrote in message <801gut4nsoep7mmu1gubh1bsaom7b5obr5@4ax.com>...r7 > >On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:08:23 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"a' > ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:e > >s > >i > >>G > >>Correct.  Adding native UNIX capabilities to OpenVMS is progressinglI > >>independently of the initial COE product.  IMHO the two most critical  >  partsM > >>are a native FORK and SELECT capabilities.  But the work done for COE hassL > >>fixed a number of issues, such as UNIX file system and naming semantics. > >eG > >Now that's something which might interest the Aberdeen Group. And IfeI > >you could also get them up in one of the JSTARS planes (threatening toeI > >drop them over Afghanistan if they don't come round :) that might help,. > >as well. Let them see VMS in *real* action. > >e >   I bring back the mica code!  it must have worked or cutler would never haveoE stormed out of dec west and bill gates would never have hired him andfH used stolen mica code to design nt ... isn't nt what vms w/windows would& have been like minus the blue screens?   > F > With the current situation, the plane is off limits (guys with M16's > guarding it).  > H > >And with Microsoft almost certain now to be forced to fully document,H > >release and *help* third parties support it's API, if you could add aI > >(possibly sandboxed) WINE Windows Emulation Environment as well as thehC > >COE work, then we might see VMS start to seriously take back the2& > >desktop as IA64 works its way down. > >  >  > M > I'm not sure any more that Windows emulation is the way.  To my mind, GnomefN > and Star Office might be a better alternative.  But first things first... weF > are getting all the X11 infrastructure back up to current revisions.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 06:10:43 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingt< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111070610.d415abe@posting.google.com>  W Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<3BE829B2.3060B964@virgin.net>...i > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > H > > With the current situation, the plane is off limits (guys with M16's > > guarding it).t > >s > Q > Hmm... could advising the termination of a current key defence operating systemiM > be considered treason. You're right - better not let them near the Aberdeenn > Group :-) :-)r > O > And, if I recall correctly, the US army executed Bill Gates in the South Parka > movie. > O > > I'm not sure any more that Windows emulation is the way.  To my mind, Gnome P > > and Star Office might be a better alternative.  But first things first... weH > > are getting all the X11 infrastructure back up to current revisions. > Q > I agree. Microsoft has been at least slowed by all the legal action surroundingrM > them and existing alternatives could always 'grow up' on VMS with the right O > help. But it would still be nice if VMS could one day run MS apps better thanb" > NT. If resources could be found.  I bring back the mica code!  it must have worked or cutler would never havewE stormed out of dec west and bill gates would never have hired him andoH used stolen mica code to design nt ... isn't nt what vms w/windows would& have been like minus the blue screens?   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Nov 2001 21:24:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinge- Message-ID: <87bsielnme.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > > SGI performed a great deal of their porting effort under theA > impression that IPF was going to be a significant step forward,-F > before events proved that this was not the case at all.  They're nowC > keeping their MIPS options open for the indefinite future, unlike7 > Compaq with Alpha.  F SGI canned all future MIPS development some years ago, and cleared outF all their engineers. Their future was fully itanic, full steam ahead!!  > They have now turned that around, and are reparing the damage.  p' >   And why in the world is HP porting?   h? > Given the continued viability of PA-RISC, that's an excellentaA > question.  Perhaps it's because this was all their brain-child,mC > starting 12 years ago as the follow-on to PA-RISC, and they stillpD > believe in it.  But they're keeping their PA-RISC options open forB > the indefinite future as well (again, unlike Compaq with Alpha).   C HP canned PAs in 96 or so, then had to bring out new chips to covereF the years between the original and eventual ship date for merced. ThisH included taking HP-PA from 32 to 64 bit with the HPPA 2 arch. So portingF HPUX is just part of the day to day plan they had. itanic is HPPA 3 in effect.-   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Nov 2001 21:45:06 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinga- Message-ID: <877kt2lmot.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:?  ? > 	True... no more than if someone just purchased GS320s.  They @ > 	would be doing incremental upgrades to EV69 if CPU horsepowerA > 	became inadequate or more than likely plugging more into theire > 	SAN fabric.  z. > 	But one of my main points can't be ignored.> > 	Cross-architecture VMS clusters are common , adding another? > 	architecture isn't that difficult, nor costly, and I suspecttA > 	Itanium servers will be quite a bit cheaper than AlphaServers.n  B Oh? Except for the 'details', as usual... One long time poster hasD frequently mentioned the problem that if they add another Arch, thenC there is the cost of a full FAA re-certification. So they are still,C on Vaxes. And notice that the vaunted FAB software was is only justmA being ported from Vax to itanic. Now when that finishes, the only A ways to cluster them will be 10Mb ethernet or perhaps FDDI. Tough  luck if you have CI in place.    -- u< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda..@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:24:34 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking 8 Message-ID: <jreiutk0sggi6dbc9c2vdgc3avcffi114q@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 12:14:58 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Alan Greig wrote:  I >> Yep, that's the way SAP wants you to work as well. OPS isn't supportedwE >> and neither is RAC yet. In a typical SAP configuration if you needoD >> redundancy then you either have a duplicated hot standby databaseH >> server or you set up the hot standby on a separate application serverG >> and take the performance hit on apps should the main database servert >> go down.  >oH >I don't know anything about SAP but what you've said Alan confirms whatF >I thought I knew, that SAP is just not geared to any fault tolorance,& >downtime for backups, redundancy, ...  D To the best of my understanding there is no reason SAP can't use OPS@ or the enhanced RAC but they do not support or recommend it. TheC reasoning given by sales is that "you get no advantage from OPS. Ite@ just slows you down". Supposedly RAC support will be included inD future. So a Compaq sales guy attempting to sell SAP on Tru64 cannotD say that their OS has better cluster support for SAP so you might asC well go for an NT solution. NT isn't too bad (note I said not *too*0F bad) in this role because all it has to do is boot then get out of the# way and let Oracle do all the work.r  F Typically anything larger than the smallest SAP installation will haveA multiple servers. A database server, an application server, a webtB server etc. You install the hot standby on one of the non database@ server nodes and it is possible to configure things so that thisB hot-standy will be switched live automatically so you do have someD fault tolerance. However you will then take a hit on the performanceE of that server. If you have money to burn just duplicate it and leavehC it idle until needed. Downtime for backups isn't required as Oraclel: does support online backups although not as neatly as RDB.  = But I have to agree that the tolerance and active distributedgD clustering capabilities of SAP/Oracle/SQL Server are nowhere near asF good as the capabilities provided by VMS/MANMAN/RDB/DBMS combo despiteD there supposedly being 15-20 years of development since MANMAN first= supported this.  I've put the question directly to senior SAP D consultants and Compaq SAP sales and they at least honestly answeredF that SAP/Oracle can't compete with MANMAN in this area. Turned out the@ senior SAP UK consultant was a former VMS MANMAN system manager!  H >Why the HELL should anyone want to run it? Vain hope systems remain up?  ) It looks good on senior management CVs...e  E Less cynically some vertical industries demand their suppliers run ite. so it interfaces easily with their own system.  D Even less cynically. SAP isn't actually a bad product but it is hugeC and demanding to set  up correctly. So much so that you will almost E certainly get it majorly wrong without really top-class outside help.mF For a start you need to understand it inside out to know where and howC to simplify screens, procedures etc. Fail to do this and your lowlyoE stores/goods-inwards staff will find themselves hyperlinking off into D (err) hyperspace and get completely lost. Fail to setup organizationF charts correctly and an avalanche of red traffic lights will bury yourB company. Fail to set up the "Executive Cockpit Business Warehouse"@ correctly and Garbage In Garbage Out Applies. One minute the CEOE thinks the company is 100 million in the black the next 50 million in@	 the red.,   E Oh and don't forget to spend a minimum of $5,000 dollars training per4' employee and much more for power users!o   > I >Surely VMS does not need software written with that methodology in mind,r5 >why should VMS help those who can't help themselves?a  D I can't think of any architectural issues that would prevent currentE SAP/R3 and mySAP (web enabled SAP) from taking immediate advantage ofr a clustered RDB server.    >	G >If SAP is being bought because its flavour of the month then the buggysI >thinking extends to those who purchase, I notice their [SAP] profits arey >down this time.  B A big part is because it is flavour of the month but it is also anD extremely comprehensive system with modules for just about anything.- SAP will even suggest employees for promotionp  E Some of the modules aren't up to scratch yet but they do seem to haved" a vision of where they want to go.   >cI >Feel free to educate me about the wonders of SAP, but I think you've gota >an uphill task.  E I'm not a big SAP fan and my understanding is limited to the officialrF SAP 101 5 day overview course plus a little hands on but I can see its$ attractions as well as its failings.  C Btw, at the UK SAP main centre the training system appeared to haverD access to live BACS (for non UK this is the banks electronic paymentE system) and I did toy with the idea of paying my 'excercise' employee  by BACS instead of cheque :-)T     -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 10:51:06 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking 3 Message-ID: <PW2qJjqHhpKm@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  \ In article <877kt2lmot.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:/ > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:A > @ >> 	True... no more than if someone just purchased GS320s.  TheyA >> 	would be doing incremental upgrades to EV69 if CPU horsepowereB >> 	became inadequate or more than likely plugging more into their >> 	SAN fabric.v >  a/ >> 	But one of my main points can't be ignored.t? >> 	Cross-architecture VMS clusters are common , adding anotherl@ >> 	architecture isn't that difficult, nor costly, and I suspectB >> 	Itanium servers will be quite a bit cheaper than AlphaServers. > D > Oh? Except for the 'details', as usual... One long time poster hasF > frequently mentioned the problem that if they add another Arch, thenE > there is the cost of a full FAA re-certification. So they are stilllE > on Vaxes. And notice that the vaunted FAB software was is only just.C > being ported from Vax to itanic. Now when that finishes, the only-C > ways to cluster them will be 10Mb ethernet or perhaps FDDI. Toughl  > luck if you have CI in place.  >   @ 	Alpha to Itanium you mean.  Their fabs have been running Alphas( 	for a while now from what I understand.   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 11:44:38 -0600r+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingi3 Message-ID: <y2audeG4CLA+@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  p In article <Ha4G7.161142$b47.16924032@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > 8 > Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:oYpTLxM4ZVJR@eisner.encompasserve.org...t >  > ...  > B >> But one of my main points can't be ignored.  Cross-architectureC >> VMS clusters are common , adding another architecture isn't thata >> difficult, nor costly,d > K > It may not be all that costly for *Compaq* to add the IPF architecture to L > VMS's repertoire, but that cost will pale in comparison with the aggregateF > cost across all ISVs and customers of porting their applications andI > installations to it (unless most don't bother to).  If indeed there are5L > anything like 400,000 VMS installations, an average porting cost of just aI > few hundred dollars would likely exceed Compaq's costs - and the *real*aL > average porting cost is much more likely to be at least a couple of orders > of magnitude higher. >   C 	So you wait until your Alphas run out of steam (if ever).  All therA 	migrations I have been involved in were for that reason and that B 	reason alone.  VAX performance had become unbearable.  Again, I'mG 	not talking homegrown in *most* cases but ISVs (Oracle and the like)..vC 	where it is a simple matter of moving the databases.  The cost forrD 	ISVs will be mostly trivial as it will involve a recompile and testD 	phase, more than made up on the back end.  ISVs all the time decideE 	to add/drop architectures.  Think of VMS on Itanium as "just anothereD 	architecture."  Of course, the alternatives are to move to another A 	platform.  My experience there is that the cost involved can be OB 	astronomical and a nice chunk of customers - for all intents and A 	purposes - are locked into VMS as it is very painful financiallydA 	to cut over to a "foreign" OS (you gain nothing but do introduce @ 	several painful issues.  I know of one migration VMS to anotherB 	OS - same ISV - that was halted after months of struggle.  Poorly@ 	run?  Nope... just difficulties that were there and recognized.D 	But when counting the cost... you get a whole lot of rosy scenarios 	very often... don't we?)   . >  and I suspect Itanium servers will be quite# >> a bit cheaper than AlphaServers.e > I > I'm getting tired of hearing this garbage:  please analyze exactly whatdK > server components will cost less (and how much) and compare it with totali( > server cost before repeating it again. >   < 	I guess you didn't even bother looking.  I'm not surprised.  B 	Itanium servers are quite a bit cheaper than AlphaServers today,  	never mind the future.t  E 	Have you priced out 16 GBytes of memory for an AlphaServer lately?  sF 	The memory is considerably more expensive for an AlphaServer.  I was I 	looking at 16 GBytes of AlphaServer memory... around $48000* U.S.  That aD 	same 16 GBytes of memory for a 4-way Itanium server is $25000 U.S.:  ` http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp?customer_id=04&order_code=pe7150&keycode=6w300    A 	What about quad processor?  If you load that Itanium box up with8> 	CPUs (4MByte L2 - top of the line at 800 MHz) you add a totalE 	of $20K to the cost.  That puts a quad Itanium server with 16 GBytesoD 	of RAM, 4 CPUs at $63K U.S.  The same config for an ES40 would mostD 	likely be in the neighborhood of $115K U.S.  ($48K* for memory, 27KD 	base system, each processor add 13K.  I may be $10K low on the base 	system, but what's $10K ?).  A 	Careful on the RAS stuff... see other threads.  RAS isn't as bigN@ 	a deal as it once was.  I know of a project that has 20 serversF 	involved.  Failovr servers everywhere.  But downtime is not an option6 	and with lame OSes you need a lot of cheap** servers.  P *   8 - 2 GByte modules at $6000K each.  Cheaper than going 4 - 4 GByte modules,      see for example:   c http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:b2a8v5mqzGc:www.geminidigital.com/specials.html+ms610-FA&hl=en   K **  cheap = $10-15 K, dual power supplies for your "RAS" feature set there.o    N > Enterprise servers aren't something one can build in a garage shop like PCs:J > they have strict characterization, validation, and RAS requirements thatN > aren't compatible with high-volume, low-cost production at either the box orL > the individual component level, and those costs persist regardless of whatJ > processors happen to be in the center of it all (and eclipse the cost of > those processors). > C > The cost of the Alpha processors in a current mid-range or betterbF > AlphaServer is a *small* percentage of the whole.  Replace them withK > McKinleys and the box price won't change significantly (unless you try to M > recoup the cost of developing the McKinley version, in which case the price 8 > will go *up*) - even if you *give the McKinleys away*. >   C 	The cost of making that above system a quad-processor is $19000 ,  7 	quite a bit cheaper than the cost to uplift an ES40 toCE 	quad status.  I don't expect that to change much when McKinley showsaD 	up, should actually go down as McKinley is in a smaller process and> 	L2 comes on CPU.  That separate L2 is very costly stuff.  You& 	are off the mark on McKinley pricing.  @ 	Itanium servers will continue to be substantially cheaper than D 	AlphaServers and CPU cost is - and will continue to be - a sizable  	factor.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 16:49:33 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Comparison of defragmenters' Message-ID: <3BE9661D.650C07@127.0.0.1>   G I've missed the original poster of this question seems ours news servern" is short of space for articles :-(  6 Someone asked about DFO vs. PerfectDisk vs. Diskeeper.   I have not used DFO.  D I traded up from an _early_ version of Diskeeper to Perfectdisk, for this main reason:e  ? Perfectdisk has a defragmenting methodology which helps preventtC fragmentation. Firstly old files (not often accessed) end up at theuA edges of the disk (most head movement, less likely to be accessedTF 'regularly', or deleted leaving a 'hole'), more often accesed file areG placed centre and slight off centre (less head movement, more likely totH be deleted, but 'holes' closer together), a volatile area where recentlyC created and perhaps soon to be deleted files (holes) will be, and aeG reasonably consolidated lump of free space, the volatile and free areas0 being more or less central.p  E For this reason, I find you can run Perfectdisk less often (therefore-
 less CPU).  D This is just my opinion which may or may not help you to a decision! --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 NOV 2001 17:05:27 GMT + From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>s( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters1 Message-ID: <7NOV01.17052757@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>   ) Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote: I > I've missed the original poster of this question seems ours news serverr$ > is short of space for articles :-( >  !8 > Someone asked about DFO vs. PerfectDisk vs. Diskeeper. >  g > I have not used DFO. >  rF > I traded up from an _early_ version of Diskeeper to Perfectdisk, for > this main reason:u >  nA > Perfectdisk has a defragmenting methodology which helps preventgE > fragmentation. Firstly old files (not often accessed) end up at thenC > edges of the disk (most head movement, less likely to be accessediH > 'regularly', or deleted leaving a 'hole'), more often accesed file areI > placed centre and slight off centre (less head movement, more likely tohJ > be deleted, but 'holes' closer together), a volatile area where recentlyE > created and perhaps soon to be deleted files (holes) will be, and atI > reasonably consolidated lump of free space, the volatile and free areasp > being more or less central.  >  1G > For this reason, I find you can run Perfectdisk less often (therefore  > less CPU).  I I've not used either Diskeeper or DFO.  I do use PerfectDisk but have not G used the file placement feature Nic mentions.  My complaint about PD iseE that it will fragment existing contiguous files in order to gain more0I contiguous free space.  I've seen large contiguous shareable images on my:F system disk fragmented into >60 pieces!  I've talked to folks at RaxcoG about this and their contention is that over time the files will likely.G be made contiguous again.  I've not seen that happen.  I'll note that I 7 do continue to use PD - just not as often as I used to.    Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVtH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 17:27:17 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)c( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters0 Message-ID: <00A04B10.008BBDA8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <3BE9661D.650C07@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:H >I've missed the original poster of this question seems ours news server# >is short of space for articles :-(w >i7 >Someone asked about DFO vs. PerfectDisk vs. Diskeeper.h >f >I have not used DFO.s > E >I traded up from an _early_ version of Diskeeper to Perfectdisk, for  >this main reason: >-@ >Perfectdisk has a defragmenting methodology which helps preventD >fragmentation. Firstly old files (not often accessed) end up at theB >edges of the disk (most head movement, less likely to be accessedG >'regularly', or deleted leaving a 'hole'), more often accesed file arelH >placed centre and slight off centre (less head movement, more likely toI >be deleted, but 'holes' closer together), a volatile area where recentlyuD >created and perhaps soon to be deleted files (holes) will be, and aH >reasonably consolidated lump of free space, the volatile and free areas >being more or less central.  E But how do you know that these files are at the "edge" or "center" oft the disk?  l   > F >For this reason, I find you can run Perfectdisk less often (therefore >less CPU).e > E >This is just my opinion which may or may not help you to a decision!> >-- ) >Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciencest >nclews at csc dot com  
 Just curious.fM ***  MicroVAX-IV (the final MicroVAX) has achieved a 2-year uptime today! ***t --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            sJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesr   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 11:53:58 GMTs= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)eB Subject: Re: CSWS/Apache v1.1:  SSL what commands are implemented?, Message-ID: <9sb7cm$1smi@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>  m In article <3BE84082.4D0CD9D6@Compaq.Com.NoSpam>, Matthew Doremus <Matthew.Doremus@Compaq.Com.NoSpam> writes:o
 >Hi Lance, >tQ >   The easiest thing to do in this situation is to move the MOD_SSL.CONF includetT >statement closer to the beginning of your HTTPD.CONF file.  This will allow for theP >LoadModule of mod_ssl.exe_alpha before you attempt to use any SSL directives in >subsequent directory contexts.   A 	Indeed that's what I wound up doing.  It would be nice, however,eC 	if the insertion by the default configuration procedures placed ittF 	earlier, before the example <Directory></Directory> pairs, or perhaps 	placed subsequent   		<Directory ...>n 		...r 		<IfModule mod_ssl.c> 		  ...h
 		</IfModule>r 		...d 		</Directory>   	hD 	examples.  The out-of-the-box installation of CSWS doesn't cater toI         the person who's an OpenVMS experienced manager but hasn't a cluetM         about Apache on Unix just yet.  In fact, I've become one of my site'sSK         Unix/Apache "experts" based on what I've learned about Apache UNDERyB         OPENVMS.  I can't believe I'm a rare case for OpenVMS/CSWS         installations. A  M +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+lN | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | M | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          |tM | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          | M | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         |.M | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       |oM | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close |aM | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            |cM | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      |lM +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+e9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a>   --	       /"\u#       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGNa!        X        AGAINST HTML MAILi	       / \r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 08:58:35 -0800c. From: Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org>* Subject: Disk Block to File Name Converter( Message-ID: <3BE9683A.91E451B9@vmmc.org>  F Last night we logged a few disk errors.  DIAGNOSE shows a MEDIUM ERRORD and gives a block number.  I'd like to find which file contains that block.  DFU F doesn't seem to have that functionality.  What other utilities could I
 use?  Thanks.h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:20:52 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>A. Subject: Re: Disk Block to File Name Converter2 Message-ID: <34eG7.53404$Z2.812529@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  ; "Jack Trachtman" <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote in message " news:3BE9683A.91E451B9@vmmc.org...H > Last night we logged a few disk errors.  DIAGNOSE shows a MEDIUM ERRORF > and gives a block number.  I'd like to find which file contains that
 > block.  DFUt  . Try $ DFU SEARCH Device/LBN=LogicalBlockNumber   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:39:32 -0500  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com. Subject: Re: Disk Block to File Name Converter4 Message-ID: <C2256AFD.0060B12D.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   Oh, yes, DFU does so.    DFUA     SEARCH       /LBN         /LBN=logical-block-number  :        The /LBN option is a special qualifier which allows;        you to find a file which contains a specific logicalK7        block number. Note that this qualifier cannot bec>        combined with other search qualifiers (such as /FILE=).          1 Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org on 11/07/2001 11:58:35 AMs  ) Please respond to Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org    To:  cc: + Subject:  Disk Block to File Name Convertero        F Last night we logged a few disk errors.  DIAGNOSE shows a MEDIUM ERRORD and gives a block number.  I'd like to find which file contains that block.  DFUeF doesn't seem to have that functionality.  What other utilities could I
 use?  Thanks.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 09:49:14 -05002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: e-week articlei3 Message-ID: <LQbG7.1355$RL6.33899@news.cpqcorp.net>>   Dear Newsgroup,   = I am not sure if you have seen this or not, but just in case.   D http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s%253D701%2526a%253D17239,00.asp  
 Warm Regards, 
 Sue Skonetskid OpenVMS Field Deployment  7       The following is from the Oct 29th issue of eWEEKtD http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s%253D701%2526a%253D17239,00.aspC      October 26, 2001 eSpeed Lifts Cantor Fitzgerald By Stan GibsonrJ Forty-seven hours after the impact at the World Trade Center's North TowerK took the lives of 733 Cantor Fitzgerald LP staff, including 150 IT workers,nG the industry-leading bond company was once again taking orders for U.S.fG Treasury bonds. The reason: a well-conceived disaster recovery plan andhH skillful, round-the-clock execution on the part of eSpeed Inc., a CantorH Fitzgerald spinoff that handles all the company's IT infrastructure. "WeD were working on adrenaline and reacting on instincts," Joe Noviello,J executive vice president and CIO at eSpeed, said last week from his officeL at the company's Rochelle Park, N.J., data center and temporary headquartersJ for Cantor Fitzgerald. "The first week people slept in cots, sleeping bagsH and minivans in the parking lot [of the data center]." "All the data andG software was mirrored to Rochelle Park," said Noviello, adding that thenK facility was established as a full-fledged data center, not just a recovery>E site, in February. Many Rochelle Park systems are primary, as well asSL backup. Like many companies in the WTC towers, the recovery activity was notG confined to the United States. At Cantor Fitzgerald and eSpeed's London J offices, IT staff was similarly flat-out. "We stayed here [in our offices]I till Friday night," said Kara Kiewel, a spokeswoman for Cantor FitzgeraldiJ and eSpeed in London. "People were sleeping on the floor. Then we all came? back on Saturday. We wouldn't go; we couldn't go." A triangular K architecture, with points at the WTC, Rochelle Park and London connected bypK DS 3 pipes, worked exactly as planned. "When one corner went down, we nevereI stopped trading," Kiewel said. "The system kept functioning in Europe andtI Asia." However, tasks that were handled in New York had to be carried outeI elsewhere-mainly in London. The clearing and settlement of trades was thecE main process. What's more, many of Cantor Fitzgerald's New York-basedcK clients had their own infrastructures knocked out, either in the WTC or thegL neighboring financial district. These customers, which normally communicatedF with Cantor Fitzgerald through its global private network, switched toE Internet access instead, Kiewel said. The north tower impact took outiF eSpeed's operations on the 103rd floor, which included some 250 CompaqD Computer Corp. and Sun Microsystems Inc. servers running Windows NT,J Alpha/OpenVMS and Solaris. Noviello estimated that 1,000 workstations wereJ destroyed. The floor was also the center of software development activity,H and many developers used more than one desktop system, all of which wereI lost. Contrary to what one might expect, eSpeed is not on a hiring binge.VJ "We have very good depth for the products we maintain. We will continue toL grow as our business needs require," said Noviello. eSpeed has 500 employeesG around the world, centered mainly in 23 hub locations. About 75 work inIH Rochelle Park. eSpeed has resumed trading in all the products handled byH Cantor Fitzgerald and sister company Tradespark LP, a joint venture thatH specializes in energy-based trading products. In fact, eSpeed is gettingK back to work to bring some new trading instruments online, Kiewel said. ButdI after such dramatic events, Cantor Fitzgerald will never be the same. ForaJ instance, the company will rely even more on "The company is going to lookF different," Kiewel said. "It's going to have more technology; the U.S.L Treasury market has shifted to become dominantly electronic." "We're gettingI away from voice brokers. The way the technology held up in this situationeG has only reinforced our belief in this direction," Kiewel added. BeforeeH Sept. 11, eSpeed was handling $250 billion worth of trades per day. ThatI total has not fully rebounded, but Kiewel said Cantor Fitzgerald is stilltG dominant in its key market, U.S. Treasury bills. Noviello advanced from2K chief technology officer to executive vice president and CIO upon the deathCL of Fred Varacchi in the disaster. Varacchi was president and chief operatingK officer of eSpeed. That Noviello is alive today is a matter of pure chance.rH He was set to go on a deep-sea fishing trip with some colleagues. It wasL canceled because of a hurricane but not in time for him to go to work at theJ usual hour. He was lucky, but there's no luck to Cantor Fitzgerald's beingJ in business today. It was a matter of planning and hard work. "People planC for disaster recovery. No one ever plans for the loss of equipment,aJ facilities and resources. To bring up our systems in 47 hours demonstratesL our planning toward building concurrent systems," said Noviello, adding, "we did not lose any data."    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 15:17:27 GMTe) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)h Subject: Re: e-week article & Message-ID: <9sbja7$c0$1@joe.rice.edu>  1 Sue Skonetski (susan.skonetski@compaq.com) wrote:  : Dear Newsgroup,i  ? : I am not sure if you have seen this or not, but just in case.i  F : http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s%253D701%2526a%253D17239,00.asp   : Warm Regards,  : Sue Skonetskii : OpenVMS Field Deployment  
 Thanks, Sue. s  G :"A triangular architecture, with points at the WTC, Rochelle Park and tG : London connected by DS 3 pipes, worked exactly as planned. "When one iH : corner went down, we never stopped trading," Kiewel said. "The system I : kept functioning in Europe and Asia." However, tasks that were handled  @ : in New York had to be carried out elsewhere-mainly in London."  $ Was this a multisite VMS Cluster ?    D Perhaps the Feds will conduct an after-action investigation on what C systems allowed continous operation during such horrible disasters.e   --Jerry Leslie     w   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 13:27:05 -00004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk>& Subject: eco patches & defragmentationB Message-ID: <1005140581.22073.0.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  L Just installed DFO on our new system, and got asked had I run setfilenomove.I Well, I thought systems came set up right, but I decided to check anyway. L Discovered it won't do much useful to a mounted system disk (!!) so put in aI f$search loop & f$file check, and discovered that while most of the filessB are right, there's quite a few which aren't - mostly .exe files, && sys$incarnation.dat, whatever that is.D Inspection suggests these are files replaced by patches - is this an oversight in patches ?D It's quite disturbing if a patch leaves itself open to corruption by defragmentation.  , Alpha VMS 7.3, here's the list of offenders.K Incidentally, the (fairly trivial) changes to setfilenomove might be usefuld too.J Is setfilenomove still important ? Wouldn't a move just fail on these open files ?eJ A reboot on our production systems is a nuisance - an attended reboot moreG so as at this time of year it has to happen at some ungodly hour at therK weekend. It would be nicer to copy the files, fix the copy, and reboot whenl convenient.o  
 Chris Sharman   0 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>ATK$PSDRIVER.EXE;16 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>DDIF$RMS_EXTENSION.EXE;1- $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>EXCEPTION.EXE;1s- $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>EXEC_INIT.EXE;1 4 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>IMAGE_MANAGEMENT.EXE;1+ $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>LOCKING.EXE;1 4 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>MESSAGE_ROUTINES.EXE;16 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>PROCESS_MANAGEMENT.EXE;15 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>PWRK$STREAMSOS_V7.EXE;1a' $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>RMS.EXE;100 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$DVDRIVER.EXE;10 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$EIDRIVER.EXE;15 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$PCFSDRIVER_V7.EXE;1 4 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$PCIDRIVER_V7.EXE;1* $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$VM.EXE;12 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE;1; $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$INTERNET_SERVICES.EXE;1 8 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$PROXY_SERVICES.EXE;14 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$PWIPDRIVER.EXE;12 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$TNDRIVER.EXE;1, $2$DKB100:<SYS0.SYSEXE>SYS$INCARNATION.DAT;1   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 13:45:22 -00004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk>& Subject: eco patches & defragmentationB Message-ID: <1005140581.22073.1.nnrp-08.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  L Just installed DFO on our new system, and got asked had I run setfilenomove.I Well, I thought systems came set up right, but I decided to check anyway. L Discovered it won't do much useful to a mounted system disk (!!) so put in aI f$search loop & f$file check, and discovered that while most of the fileshB are right, there's quite a few which aren't - mostly .exe files, && sys$incarnation.dat, whatever that is.D Inspection suggests these are files replaced by patches - is this an oversight in patches ?D It's quite disturbing if a patch leaves itself open to corruption by defragmentation.K Definitely the case with the VMS73_SYSLOA patch, which I've just installed.t  9 Alpha VMS 7.3, here's the list of offenders (pre sysloa).mK Incidentally, the (fairly trivial) changes to setfilenomove might be usefuli too.J Is setfilenomove still important ? Wouldn't a move just fail on these open files ? J A reboot on our production systems is a nuisance - an attended reboot moreG so as at this time of year it has to happen at some ungodly hour at the K weekend. It would be nicer to copy the files, fix the copy, and reboot whenS convenient.,  
 Chris Sharmanc  0 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>ATK$PSDRIVER.EXE;16 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>DDIF$RMS_EXTENSION.EXE;1- $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>EXCEPTION.EXE;1.- $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>EXEC_INIT.EXE;1r4 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>IMAGE_MANAGEMENT.EXE;1+ $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>LOCKING.EXE;1a4 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>MESSAGE_ROUTINES.EXE;16 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>PROCESS_MANAGEMENT.EXE;15 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>PWRK$STREAMSOS_V7.EXE;1 ' $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>RMS.EXE;1o0 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$DVDRIVER.EXE;10 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$EIDRIVER.EXE;15 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$PCFSDRIVER_V7.EXE;1 4 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$PCIDRIVER_V7.EXE;1* $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>SYS$VM.EXE;12 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE;1; $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$INTERNET_SERVICES.EXE;1 8 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$PROXY_SERVICES.EXE;14 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$PWIPDRIVER.EXE;12 $2$DKB100:<VMS$COMMON.SYS$LDR>TCPIP$TNDRIVER.EXE;1, $2$DKB100:<SYS0.SYSEXE>SYS$INCARNATION.DAT;1   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:05:20 -00004 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk>* Subject: Re: eco patches & defragmentationA Message-ID: <1005141790.1291.0.nnrp-14.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>>  9 It seems good old wonderful dfu can do it (undocumented):t  > dfu set sys$system:sys$incarnation.dat/nomove/ignore=interlock   Is this safe ?K If so, it resolves my existing problem, and just leaves the issue of future-' patches for someone at Compaq to solve.   
 Thanks again, 
 Chris Sharmane  H PS: sorry for the two very similar messages - our server was playing up.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:34:16 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>  Subject: RE: FORMATTING A FLOPPY- Message-ID: <0033000040826378000002L082*@MHS>/  & =0ADid you try INIT/DENSITY=3DDOUBLE ?  0 As for the VMS=3D>NT question, search for MGPCX.   WWWebb       > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET.* > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 7:48 PMD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET > Subject: FORMATTING A FLOPPY >i >o5 > Does anyone know the answers to these two questionsM >l) > 1) I am trying to format a floppy usingo >       $init dva0: test > it kept giving me this error. >    %init - F- Format, [Invalid media format] > What does that mean? >i? > 2) Do you know if there is a software/freeware that allow yout > to convert> > from VMS to DOS.  I want to be able take files from an Alpha > machine running	' > VMS 7.2 and use it on the NT machine._ >. > Thank you very much. >=   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:44:30 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>M  Subject: Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY$ Message-ID: <3be972fc$1@news.si.com>  I >2) Do you know if there is a software/freeware that allow you to convertsE >from VMS to DOS.  I want to be able take files from an Alpha machinea runningv& >VMS 7.2 and use it on the NT machine.  ' ftp://ftp.madgoat.com/madgoat/mgpcx.zipa --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comiA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent8< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 09:22:17 +01007 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> ; Subject: RE: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C698B@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>c  e The plans for the future of HP is kill hp-ux and tru64. Take the best of both and make a new one and -f use that one for the itanium. It will be called HP-UX. The port of VMS is still going on and will not b be stopped. Yes there is an end to the alpha processors, but that will also be for the HP9000 and  HP3000 platforms.    k  Z The itanic platform will be based on the best of alpha and hp9000 processors, but that has( nothing to do with the HP-compaq merger.         > -----Original Message-----8 > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]% > Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2001 22:04: > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come9 > Subject: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!t >  > > > business news out says hewlett family thinks merger would be> > bad because of compaqs troubled low end pc business and said0 > hp should concentrate on the high end area ... > @ > i wonder if hp really ever was serious about buying compaq ...A > maybe they only wanted to destroy alpha so they could move intoa? > the high end with hp-ux on itanium and try to destroy some ofa= > the vms and tru64 momentum ... maybe that's why people here>B > and on tru64 board reported hp sales staff stating vms and tru64> > would be killed ... carly conned capellas into selling alphaA > so the junk itanic platform could be saved by alpha secrets andb. > engineers ... what about this terry shannon? >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:08:07 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!RA Message-ID: <XR6G7.40380$7x1.4058379@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>D  @ Dijk, Jeroen van <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> wrote in messageI news:2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C698B@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl... J > The plans for the future of HP is kill hp-ux and tru64. Take the best of both and make a new one andoK > use that one for the itanium. It will be called HP-UX. The port of VMS isa still going on and will not=H > be stopped. Yes there is an end to the alpha processors, but that will also be for the HP9000 and > HP3000 platforms.  >uC > The itanic platform will be based on the best of alpha and hp9000g processors, but that has* > nothing to do with the HP-compaq merger.  K It so nice to get the definitive word on what the future has in store.  AremE you Carly's secret inamorato, or do you just have a proven-infallibles
 crystal ball?-  F (I especially like your insight into future Itanic internals:  it's soL penetrating and believable that you must have Intel at your beck and call asJ well.  We are truly blessed to have the benefit of your wisdom, and I hopeL you'll apply it next to the problems of world poverty, hunger, and disease.)   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 07:53:41 -0500M- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!0, Message-ID: <3BE92ED2.72EE7C84@videotron.ca>   "Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote:C\ > The itanic platform will be based on the best of alpha and hp9000 processors, but that has* > nothing to do with the HP-compaq merger.  J I disagree on both points. Intel has inherited fully capable engineers andN patents. But that does not necessarily mean that all the goodies in Alpha willG go to IA64. For one thing those two are quite different chip paradigms.o  I Look at Cutler and Microsoft. Did NT get all the goodies of VMS includinghL reliability etc etc ? It got some inspirtation at the level where Cutler wasL involved, but the rest remain very much a windows piece of bloated software.  K The ex-digital engineers will have to work for Intel and work inside of the # limitations and goals set by Intel.t    G Secondly, the death of Alpha has everything to do with the HP buyout of I Compaq. Carly admitted that she had been talking seriously with Curly foroI quite a few months and that they did a lot of the ground work well beforeiK calling the bankers.  This is similar to Pfeiffer having told Palmer to getMI rid of te FAB plant before Compaq would consider buying Digital (PfeiffernJ admitted that he had been working with Palmer for 3 years to get Palmer to: shape Digital to something Compaq would be interested in).  J HP invested mega money and resources in IA64 in the hopes it could competeN against Alpha. It turns out that IA64 will be a dud for quite some time. CarlyJ saw a weakened Compaq and saw opportunity to kill Alpha, thus makling IA64T look better. She raised her skirt a bit and Curly immediatly donated Alpha to Intel.  I And for HP, this was a very wise move. Now that Alpha is dead, even if HPnN fails to buy Compaq (or succeeds in not buying Compaq), what is left of Compaq will be severely wounded.E  K And if HP fails to buy Compaq, it will then be the recipient of some of theeN Copaq customers looking to leave Compaq. If HP fails and inherits Compaq, then1 the pissed off customers will move to Sun or IBM.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 07:54:54 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!C, Message-ID: <3BE92F1B.F92B73BE@videotron.ca>  M Seems that the HP board almost unanimously voted for the buyout of Compaq andtM showed support for Carly. Only one  vote was against: The rep for the Hewlettq family.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:29:47 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>0; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!r8 Message-ID: <q2hiutsosc80o0gqolo0ikrp31c6rra6bb@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 07:54:54 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:p  N >Seems that the HP board almost unanimously voted for the buyout of Compaq andN >showed support for Carly. Only one  vote was against: The rep for the Hewlett >family.  B Walter Hewitt I believe - more than just a rep. It seems from someB reports that the Packard family (10% shareholding) may be about toA come out against the deal as well. The 20% jump in HP share priceyD appears to indicate that the market thinks the deal is dead already.F Even Walter Hewlitt initially voted in favour then consulted advisors.A The way board politics works it would not surprise me if half the . board may have already quietly switched sides. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:44:32 +0000i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!b8 Message-ID: <23iiutou70d8unrkvht36ktsolv8pu8b6a@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:29:47 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>y wrote:    B >The way board politics works it would not surprise me if half the/ >board may have already quietly switched sides.d  C I should have added "but are not yet ready to say so in public".  Aa> public switch by the board now would effectively force Carly's immediate resignation.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 08:17:29 -0800a' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>i; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! + Message-ID: <3BE95E99.3D1F8D94@caltech.edu>w   Alan Greig wrote:p  E > On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:29:47 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r > wrote: > D > >The way board politics works it would not surprise me if half the1 > >board may have already quietly switched sides.n > E > I should have added "but are not yet ready to say so in public".  Aa@ > public switch by the board now would effectively force Carly's > immediate resignation.  G Sounds good to me.  Bet it sounds good to 99% of HP employees as well..c   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu= Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility Biology Division, Caltecha   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:12:59 +0000u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> D Subject: Re: Information about the files accessed by an application.8 Message-ID: <lmuhut4ugi8ik0m3s52d5lnrcgcirpu4ra@4ax.com>  A On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:22:07 +0530, "upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com>t wrote:  A >Is it possible to get information about the files accessed by ant
 >application?  >lC >e.g., Assume you execute an exe. While this starts executing, thisoI >application reads some configuration files. Using the information in thekJ >configuration files, the application spawns another application. Is thereK >any command on VMS which gives information about the files opened, spawnede >etc.?  + The undocumented $ SET WATCH FILE/CLASS=ALL + $ SET WATCH FILE/CLASS=NONE to turn it off,a  4 Probably in the VMS FAQ together with other options.   >With regards,
 >Upadhyaya >t   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:03:18 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)a Subject: Re: Lost in MACRO0 Message-ID: <00A04ADA.5C195F24@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <3be8a70a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes: >Hi, >tG >to squeeze some more performance out of ht://Dig, I identified a short H >routine where HTDIG.EXE spends about 5% of process time, and decided toB >rewrite it in MACRO. It all looks quite good, apart from a linkerG >warning I can't get rid of, and that is a MMS showstopper. I'd hate too >use /IGNORE=WARNING. So:e >s >The C++ I hook into:' > 
 >#ifdef __VMSe8 >extern "C" unsigned int dictionary_hashcode(char *key); >#endifh > - >unsigned int Dictionary::hashCode(char *key)r >{
 >#ifdef __VMS % >    return dictionary_hashcode(key);  >#else >    ... >#endify >} >g >t& >The important parts of the .MAR file: > < >        .TITLE  DICTIONARY_HASHCODE - Calculate a hash code >        .IDENT  /V1.0/d >o >; Macro Library Calls >        $DSCDEF >' >; External Definitionss >        .DISABLE        GLOBAL % >        .EXTERNAL       OTS$CVT_TI_Lt >d >; Local Data Definitionsi4 >        .PSECT  DHC_DATA, QUAD, PIC, RD, WRT, NOEXE >....  >k >; Hash Code Routine4 >        .PSECT  DHC_CODE, QUAD, PIC, RD, NOWRT, EXE4 >        .CALL_ENTRY     LABEL=DICTIONARY_HASHCODE,-& >                        INPUT=<R16>,-$ >                        OUTPUT=<R0> >....2$ >        .END    DICTIONARY_HASHCODE   	.END2     >:H >The object file created then goes into LIBHT.OLB (the same library thatI >contains DICTIONARY.OBJ). When linking against that library, it barks onV >me: >.$ >CXXLINK /EXECUTABLE=htfuzzy.exe ... >htfuzzy.obj, ...$$ >[-.HTLIB]LIBHT/INCLUDE=HTWORDTYPE,- >[-.HTLIB]LIBHT/LIBRARY,...R2 >%LINK-W-MULTFR, multiply defined transfer address= >        in module DICTIONARY_HASHCODE file <path>LIBHT.OLB;1B >:K >(The /INCLUDE is necessary for some weak symbol in HTWORDTYPE that doesn'tS >get resolved without it.) >S! >Thanks in advance for any clues.E >  >cu,	 >  MartinM >.J >P.S.: If I do ignore the warning, PCA tells me I've done the right thing. >-- E >                    | Martin Vorlaender    |    VMS & WNT programmerM. >  Smiert Spamionem  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deE >                    |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/$5 >                    | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.deCM ***  MicroVAX-IV (the final MicroVAX) has achieved a 2-year uptime today! ***: --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM&            iJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:36:33 GMT   From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>> Subject: Re: Microsoft co-founder establishes DEC archive site8 Message-ID: <qmhiutkbpj08jplbu376fbog0dqrl36hfk@4ax.com>  E On 6 Nov 2001 14:42:05 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n wrote:  i >In article <d7791aa1.0111061114.3f474266@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:p >hK >> i just emailed him on doing just that ... if everyone here would join ineR >> instead of pondering unix and linux all the time, it could become a reality .../ >> paul allen has the money and is no dummy ...e >r( >Not before you learn how to capitalize.  C Well, he's capitalizing on the situation - ya gotta give him credito	 for that.i  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqi- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 07:25:30 -0800  From: jhaine@hotmail.com (JH)a/ Subject: Name Change of Alpha Server 4000 5/300l= Message-ID: <2729b674.0111070725.4cd00b28@posting.google.com>a  @ I temporarily wan to change my servers name from i.e. "ALPHA" toD "BETA"; reason is to afterwards restore a complete image backup of aB system disk from another server with all it's licenses etc. and we/ don't want to relicense everything from scratchE< Does anybody know, which steps to take in order to do this ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:39:13 +0100R& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>8 Subject: Re: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2$ Message-ID: <3BE971C1.4487@c-lab.de>   Enrico Badella wrote:V >    > Q > isacfg -slot 1 -dev 0 -mk -handle NE2000 -irq0 5 -iobase0 300 -enadev 1 -etyp 1$ >   F Wouldn't a -handle DE305-AA instead be sufficient, i.e. without addingE the record in SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT ? This seems to have the>! same driver entry SYS$CONFIG.DAT.S     > Once OpenVMS is up >  > $ show dev era0:/full0 > J > Device ERA0:, device type DE305, is offline, network device, device is a >         template only. > C >         Error count             0       Operations completede   0SC >         Owner process          ""       Owner UIC        [SYSTEM]7D >         Owner process ID 00000000       Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,WC >         Reference count         0       Default buffer size     00 >   @ I'm not sure if that really means that the driver is loaded, butF inactive (offline). Did you try to configure TCP/IP by filling out the) forms of @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG.COM ??i; Perhaps the driver has different iobase and IRQ hardwired? a  F I tried to put an Intel EtherExpress Pro/100 into a PC164 board, whichG was identified by autoconfig, (driver started, device visible) but then 8 TCPIP did not start. The drivers seem to be quite picky.  E What worked quite well is an old Tulip chip-based PCI card from Zynx,e. ZX312. These are probably also dirt-cheap now.  E Another choice might be Lance-based (AM7990) card, like a NE1500/2100E? clone. I have some, and there is a SRM script called add_de205:C  ? isacfg -slot 1 -dev 0 -mk -handle DE200-LE -irq0 5 -iobase0 300R0 -membase0 d0000 -memlen0 10000 -etyp 1 -enadev 1   Could be another choice.       --  * Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 05:55:01 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech!3 Message-ID: <93IyzEgxBgf8@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  o In article <gurman-7D8AD0.22511906112001@news.crosslink.net>, "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@crosslink.net> writes:.J >     Has anyone elase started receiving the Patch notifications in HTML? @ > I received a slew today. Or perhaps the right term is a sewer. > H >     Does anyone who sends these little gems out know that most of the D > people reaidng them (OK, I'm guessing) still use the OpenVMS MAIL  > utility to read their e-mail?M  E On DECUServe people do not read them via VMSmail.  They are extracted D automatically into a DEC Notes conference topic where (up until this+ week) they are available to be read by all.   ? That makes _two_ VMS tools for which this change is unsuitable.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 13:31:41 GMTd& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech!= Message-ID: <1JaG7.36481$zK1.9355896@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>-  7 I get the same garbage delivered to me via Lotus Notes.m  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:93IyzEgxBgf8@eisner.encompasserve.org...gJ > In article <gurman-7D8AD0.22511906112001@news.crosslink.net>, "Joseph B.& Gurman" <gurman@crosslink.net> writes:K > >     Has anyone elase started receiving the Patch notifications in HTML? B > > I received a slew today. Or perhaps the right term is a sewer. > > I > >     Does anyone who sends these little gems out know that most of thepE > > people reaidng them (OK, I'm guessing) still use the OpenVMS MAIL ! > > utility to read their e-mail?  >eG > On DECUServe people do not read them via VMSmail.  They are extracted F > automatically into a DEC Notes conference topic where (up until this- > week) they are available to be read by all.o > A > That makes _two_ VMS tools for which this change is unsuitable.e >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:23:13 -0500s* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech!) Message-ID: <3BE943D1.1040104@compaq.com>g   Joseph B. Gurman wrote:d   > F >     Perhaps the august Messrs. Hoffman and Kleinsorge know where to  > point us?o >     G It is happening to us as well.  I've personally sent mail asking WTF...   I I'm sure they know about it by now.  I can't believe it was the expected rB result.  I've since received other ECO mails in the previous (ie,  "good") format.l       -- l John Reaganl' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadern   ------------------------------   Date: 07 Nov 2001 16:37:50 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>-> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Patch Mailing List in HTML --- eeeuuyech!0 Message-ID: <9sbo0u$q0r@dispatch.concentric.net>  C The subject of the patches used to contain the TITLE: of the patch.XH The recent flood came to me all with subject: Compaq ... not very useful5 Come on, Compaq, go back to what worked! (plain text)9  % Jim Strehlow, Data911 Systems Managere Alameda, CAn  / "Let them do their worst. We will do our best."l    : "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@crosslink.net> wrote in message7 news:gurman-7D8AD0.22511906112001@news.crosslink.net....I >     Has anyone elase started receiving the Patch notifications in HTML? @ > I received a slew today. Or perhaps the right term is a sewer. >0G >     Does anyone who sends these little gems out know that most of thetC > people reaidng them (OK, I'm guessing) still use the OpenVMS MAILd > utility to read their e-mail?t > F >     Is there even an option to say NO to HTML bandwidth-spam? Where? > E >     Perhaps the august Messrs. Hoffman and Kleinsorge know where tos > point us?  >e
 >     TIA, >y >                   Joe Gurman   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 17:21:36 +0000y( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: OT - HP's MPE-IXy) Message-ID: <3BE96DA0.41A1A0FC@127.0.0.1>t   lroduner@americhem.com wrote:,G > I believe that Compaq claims that there are 400,000+ VMS systems witheD > 10,000,000 users world-wide (these figures are likely inflated).    C There are systems that do not exist, because I certainly don't knowr anything about them.  * Officially inflated, unofficially correct?  E M, now what a tremendous pop outfit they were fronted by Robin Scott,hE couple of great albums, one called "New York, London, Paris, Munich",e" what was the follow-up called now? -- s( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------   Date: 7 NOV 2001 15:39:23 GMTo+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>p? Subject: Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCLg1 Message-ID: <7NOV01.15392301@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>g  ? In a previous article, del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan) wrote:hH > I'm trying to ready an RMS Index file and most of the fields are fine,A > but there is one field that is a binary value which should be a G > longword representation of a date;  I'm having trouble reading it andsF > have been unsuccessful.   I thought I could extract it from the line< > and re-format it with f$fao but this hasn't worked either.  I Back in 1990 a challenge of sorts was held in this newsgroup for the bestrF (most compact) use of DCL to convert a binary time to ascii using DCL.7 Here's the winning solution (from Simon Graham of DEC):f     $ Record[  0, 32 ] = %x0CA87960   $ Record[ 32, 32 ] = %x0094972C  $!e*  $ Write SYS$OUTPUT F$Fao( "Date : !%D", -0    F$CvUI( 32, 32, F$Fao( "!AD", 8, Record ) ) )  E The challenge was posed by Nick de Smith (NICK@ncdlab.ulcc.ac.uk) who  posted this explanation:  I $! 1.   "Record" is stored by DCL as a string, and is therefore passed byl  $!      descriptor to functions.M $!      We use the "!AD" operator of $FAO to extract the descriptor of Record 
 $!      usingh) $!              F$Fao( "!AD", 8, Record )d= $!      which will return the descriptor as an 8 byte string.g $! 2.   We now use8 $!              F$CvUI( 32, 32, descriptor-as-a-string )W $!      to return the real address of the data as a 32 bit binary number in an integer.oM $!      This extracts the second 32 bits of the "Record" descriptor, which iswS $!      the value of the dsc$a_pointer element of the descriptor, ie the address of0= $!      the data element (the time quadword) that we require. S $! 3.   Lastly, we use the address from step 2 as input to $FAO to get the date. As9V $!      the "!AD" format requires the address of a VMS time quadword, and integers areV $!      passed by value to DCL lexical functions, this last $FAO returns the completed $!      string.    Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVlH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 08:13:14 -0800a' From: del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan)5? Subject: Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCLa= Message-ID: <98342c9f.0111070813.468887c2@posting.google.com>q  l del.duncan@intel.com (Del Duncan) wrote in message news:<98342c9f.0111061609.3d1850b1@posting.google.com>...H > I'm trying to ready an RMS Index file and most of the fields are fine,A > but there is one field that is a binary value which should be aeG > longword representation of a date;  I'm having trouble reading it andtF > have been unsuccessful.   I thought I could extract it from the line< > and re-format it with f$fao but this hasn't worked either. >  > -Del  D Thanks for all the info on this.   As it turns out, the missing link= for me was the f$cvui lexical which I wasn't familiar with.  e  E The data is created with the time function from a c-program, so it isaA a long integer value representing the 1-Jan-1970 GMT as the others posts have said.  A What I really couldn't figure out was how to translate the binary0E value into an integer value that I could use (my original message wascB probably a little unclear).    I already have a small c-routine toE convert a normal date into an integer value, so my DCL code will callyE that and just compare the integers.   I only have to do that one timeiF as it is a cutoff date, i.e. - I'll check if a value is above or belowC it.   I won't have to translate each date read from the file, otheri0 than getting it into the integer representation.  E For the record in case someone searches on this type of a problem, an4 example code snippet it:  8 $ read/lock fi rec /error=readError/end_of_file=readDone- $ longDate = f$cvui(0,32,f$extract(33,4,rec))w* $ write sys$output "longDate: ''longDate'"  D This is my first post to deja/google newsgroups and it sure beat the WEB searching I was doing.   Thanks again, Del    ------------------------------   Date: 07 Nov 2001 16:46:47 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>t? Subject: Re: Reading binary values in RMS Indexed Files via DCLy0 Message-ID: <9sbohn$q0q@dispatch.concentric.net>  D If you have Datatrieve, I define the domain and record layout of theD data file and PRINT the value of the date along with the other data.H I then bulk copy (Sybase) or Sql*Load (Oracle) the data into a database.  8 Jim Strehlow, Data911 Systems Manager and D.B. Assistant Alameda, CAk  4 "Del Duncan" <del.duncan@intel.com> wrote in message7 news:98342c9f.0111061609.3d1850b1@posting.google.com...IH > I'm trying to ready an RMS Index file and most of the fields are fine,A > but there is one field that is a binary value which should be acG > longword representation of a date;  I'm having trouble reading it andrF > have been unsuccessful.   I thought I could extract it from the line< > and re-format it with f$fao but this hasn't worked either. >b > -Del   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:21:37 -0700L From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>o Subject: Re: RRD40/RRD50 specs? ' Message-ID: <3BE95F91.FCA42A50@srv.net>W  1 Anyone find out if these documents are available?-" If so, who to contact to get them.   Hoff Hoffman wrote:e > T > In article <GL9qzL.At1@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:O > :Take a look at the price file, where you can find QP905-GZ, "UDA50 PROG V1.04P > :DOC KIT-ARCHI", $74, and QP906-GZ, "DSA CONTROLLERS V1.0 DOC KIT", $107. BothI > :of these are discontinued parts, but that is due to a lack of interestfJ > :since no DEC DSA controllers have been manufactured for many years now.N > :When they were available, anyone could order them - I have a set somewhere. > I >   From what I have gathered, the MSCP specifications were available for/5 >   a brief interval, but access was then restricted.# > K >   The former is listed as a programming kit for the UDA50 itself, but the C >   latter (QP906-GZ) is listed as HSC50 maintenance documentation.  > 7 >   Do these documents include the MSCP specifications?# > L > :  As far as I have ever been able to determine, DEC never had any problemH > :with people writing drivers for DEC controllers - they did want theirM > :"pound of flesh" (in the form of a patent royalty) if someone built a non-  > :DEC MSCP controller.  > L >   AFAIK, the MSCP and related specifications and the SCS/CI specifications >   are still restricted.  > 8 >   I've sent an inquiry along to the cluster architect. > K >   If these documents are no longer restricted, I'll drop a copy of what IRM >   have onto the next Freeware, and the folks at DFWCUG might have (or mightO >   want) a copy.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:18:16 -05006 From: "Dominic Olivastro" <DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com>" Subject: Two questions on VMS Sort0 Message-ID: <9sbj9r$1tb9$1@allbad.news.cais.net>  # Can someone answer these questions:h  J 1.  How does sort use the SORTWORKx files?  Does it fill up what it can onG SORTWORK0 and only then move to SORTWORK1?  Or does it use some kind ofoJ cutoff point, eg, using SORTWORK0 for the first phase work, then moving toJ SORTWORK1.  In the latter case, it seems to me that using 2 workspaces may actually hurt it.   H Another way of asking the same question is -- Is it ever wrong to use asH many workspaces as possible, even if the first workspace is huge and all subsequent workspaces are tiny?   5 2.  Sometimes in a sort I get the following messages:d  5 %SORT-E-WRITEERR, error writing U0:[DOM]SORTWORK.TMP;-* -SYSTEM-F-EXDISKQUOTA, disk quota exceeded  G The sort finishes in the sense that I get the statistics, and the rightXG number of records on output, and these are sorted correctly.  Does thisfH message mean only that the first sortwork was filled and it moved to theL second, without any errors, or is the output of the sort unreliable?  In theH latter case, why does the sort finish instead of just bombing?  (It will2 bomb if I get this message on the last workspace).   TIA6 DOMM     --   ԿԬ   Dominic Olivastro  CHI Research, Inco 10 White Horse Pikes Haddon Heights, NJ 08035   Phone:  1-856-546-0600 Fax:       1-856-546-9633 % mailto:    DOlivastro@ChiResearch.come   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 04:47:53 -080011 From: a_w@it.singer-friedlander.com (Andy Wright)p! Subject: Re: Undo disk Initialize>= Message-ID: <81b13452.0111070447.736472a8@posting.google.com>l  G The original request was for anyone who might know how to retrieve dataeI from a magneto optical disk (rewriteable) that has been initialised usingNJ dcl (ini/nohigh/clu=) the data is still on the disk presumably. The personK responsible was an operator who mistakenly initialised the disk. I guess werG don't need any form of undelete software as that is a different problem  to the one we have.-      _ vmae@themail.com (Van) wrote in message news:<a954c96.0111062240.331462c@posting.google.com>...lo > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<LDBF7.1288$RL6.33051@news.cpqcorp.net>...a_ > > In article <a954c96.0111012221.501845e1@posting.google.com>, vmae@themail.com (Van) writes:eN > > :I know very good undeleted utilities [expurgated]I used its for restoringJ > > :of my files deleted accidantly because hard disk partition structures > > :was damaged.rD > > :My files have been restored.This program has a few utilites for> > > :restoring types of file systems. Look site...[expurgated] > > L > >   The [expurgated] URL and tool is for a Microsoft Windows data recoveryF > >   tool, and it may or may not be applicable to the restoration of K > >   optical-based storage media on any operating system platform.  It is -K > >   definitely not applicable to OpenVMS nor to recovering from an errant$" > >   OpenVMS disk initialization. > > G > >   You will want to avoid mapping Microsoft Windows single-user and  L > >   non-shared file system concepts and tools onto a multi-user operating L > >   system, particularly one with support for fully shared disk resources.M > >   (Applications anywhere within an OpenVMS Cluster can be writing to the  M > >   disk, and the storage "underneath" a file that is errantly deleted can  I > >   be quickly reused.  In a simple configuration, you might be able to H > >   recover the file if you quickly get the disk off-line -- in a moreK > >   complex configuration and/or with a more active disk, the data in the L > >   disk blocks and the contents of the file headers get clobbered as the  > >   disk blocks are reused.) > > O > >   OpenVMS generally does not damage its storage partitions, and the typicalhO > >   operations of a multi-user shared file system generally detract somewhat  H > >   from the ability to restore from an errant operator command.  WithL > >   OpenVMS and standard read-write media, there are tools around that canN > >   (attempt to) resurrect a file struture from an errantly erased -- that'sM > >   FDISK to the PC folks -- disk, and there are undelete tools around thatCI > >   will attempt to pull a file back together.   (These tools have beena/ > >   discussed in various previous threads.)  l > > L > >   The recommended approach to avoid and recover from these problems (andN > >   from catastrophic disk failures) is to a: keep privileges and breakablesJ > >   away from the untrusted or error-prone, and b: keep system backups.  > > R > >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------R > >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    R > >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------P > >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com > B > Hi! I know very good undeleted utilities R-STUDIO.I used its forF > restoring of my files deleted accidantly because hard disk partition > structures was damaged. A > My files have been restored.This program has a few utilites for D > restoring types of file systems. Look site http://www.r-tt.com for > more information > Best regards   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:06:18 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: VMSMail APIs?+ Message-ID: <9sbf4q$438$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>V  i In article <3BE888D7.3236B74@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>, Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> writes:: >David/John M., A >I'm not trying to solve a problem myself, just commenting on theg >situation for VMS mail.G >My understanding is that although run time libraries exist for sendingeH >mail out no similar library exists for the receipt of mail.  The DECnetG >mail object obviously exists but it is my understanding that smtp mailaH >receipt is kludged onto the side of VMS mail (and may even use the same% >mechanism as DECnet for all I know).l: >As such, there isn't a sys$receive_mail call or anything. >e >Steve.t >c   Steve,  > I'm still not sure why you would want a sys$receive_mail call. When would you use it ?o  J SMTP basically uses a daemon (detached process) listening on the SMTP mail port (port 25).II When a mail message is received and is destined for a local user the mail G is handed over to the normal VMS Mail delivery processes and delivered.c  D This is pretty much how all SMTP mail systems work on all platforms.H (Sometimes the Mail delivery process and SMTP listener might all be partJ of one monolithic system - which leads to security problems. But logically" they are separate on all systems.)  L The only thing I could think you might mean by a sys$receive_mail call wouldK be to have a program activated when a mail message is delivered which then @M does something with the message eg files it in a particular folder, kicks off.. sending of an "I am away" vacation message etcN This is already accomplished through "Deliver" which utilises the VMS foreign L mail interface. This might be considered a bit of a kludge since it requiresK the mail account to forward all messages back to itself through the deliverg foreign mail interface.     n
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  -   >-  >david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> Gm >> In article <3BDF209A.17B97403@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>, Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> writes:eG >> >I'm not sure if this response relates to the initial query but.....h >> >L >> >One thing that I find strange about VMS mail and the APIs for it is thatE >> >although there are calls for sending mail out from a higher levelrL >> >language, no such APIs (or, as we used to call them, Run Time Libraries)K >> >exist for RECEIVING mail.  So, for example, SMTP mail receipt on VMS ism* >> >effectively a kludge from what I hear. >> >
 >> >Steve. >> > >> s< >> What sort of an API do you want for receiving SMTP mail ?Q >> Like in any SMTP mail system you have a daemon (detached process) listening oneQ >> port 25 which deals with receiving the mail and then passes it on for deliveryt/ >> to user's mailboxes or forwarding elsewhere.) >> l3 >> Can you explain more fully what you want to do ?l >>  
 >> David Webbe >> VMS and Unix team leaderH >> CCSSi >> Middlesex University  >> h >> ># >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:g >> >>wu >> >> In article <b2faac46.0110090442.79f92342@posting.google.com>, on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles) writes:eJ >> >> >You'll have to log a call with support.  All this information isn't& >> >> >readily available to customers. >> >> >A >> >> >CZ >> >> >paul@wren.cc.kux.edu wrote in message news:<3bc1e63f.18304210@news.cc.ukans.edu>...E >> >> >> Where, in manuals, or on-line can one find the VMSMail APIs?r >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> R >> >> Look at chapter 14 in the OpenVMS Utility Routines manual which is available >> >> online see :-e >> >>f^ >> >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/4493/4493pro_contents_002.html#toc_chapter_14 >> >>r >> >> David Webb >> >> VMS and Unix team leader
 >> >> CCSS >> >> Middlesex University >> > >> >--K >> >"A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent like-I >> >a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.<E >> >Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"e6 >> >               Louis, "Interview with the Vampire" >r >-- H >"A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent likeF >a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.B >Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"& >		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Nov 2001 22:06:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: VMSMail APIs?- Message-ID: <87y9lik753.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  3 Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> writes:m  ; > As such, there isn't a sys$receive_mail call or anything.   > There is, but it has a non-standard interface. You need to use" sys$come_from() to have called it.   -- [< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.)@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:16:38 GMTo From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com 1 Subject: Re: VMSMAIL file, on a write-locked diskR8 Message-ID: <c7uiutg8d0f0als91bumc1hba86qltbltc@4ax.com>  B On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:41:29 GMT, LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com wrote:  A >this suprised me.   probably I ran into this before, and forgot.a. >I was about put a couple of years of VMS mail8 >onto a CD-R.    and it looks like idea that won't fly.>/ >Can anyone here think of a clever work-around?p >t >$  mount/over=id/noass dka500:t+ >%MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked / >%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST1 mounted on _LF$DKA500:  >u* >$  DIR/WID=FI=40)/SIZ=ALL/DAT/NOHEA/NOTRA# >DKA500:[PROD.LOG.MAIL_LDB]MAIL.MAIDD >DKA500:[PROD.LOG.MAIL_LDB]MAIL.MAI;1  30/32  4-MAY-2000 23:29:08.08 >! >$  MAIL2 >MAIL> SET FILE DKA500:[PROD.LOG.MAIL_LDB]MAIL.MAID >%MAIL-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA500:[PROD.LOG.MAIL_LDB]MAIL.MAI as >input* >-RMS-E-WLK, device currently write locked
 >MAIL>  Exit a >n  >$  MLS :== $T_EXE:MLSEARCH.EXE < >$  MLS /file=DKA500:[PROD.LOG.MAIL_LDB]MAIL.MAI INET foobarD >%MAIL-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA500:[PROD.LOG.MAIL_LDB]MAIL.MAI as >input* >-RMS-E-WLK, device currently write lockedG >%MLSEARCH-W-OPENIN, Error opening DKA500:[PROD.LOG.MAIL_LDB]MAIL.MAI;1e
 >for input* >-RMS-E-WLK, device currently write locked$ >%MLSEARCH-E-NOFILES, No files found$ >%MLSEARCH-E-NOFILES, No files found >$    5 to followup, the solution I ran with, was to store a  4 disk container file on the (ods2) CD, and in turn,  , connect a LD device to it, which I then set  'noprotect'  (via the LD tool)  8 I also liked Hunter Goatleys soln,  putting the MAIL.MAIE on writable storage, and the external mail$*.*  on rd-only storage.  d  4 In one or two instances, the MAIL.MAI involved were 5 huge, so I was hoping to find to a find a way to put c them all on the one CD ...  = $  write sys$output f$getdvi( "DKA500:", "DEVICE_TYPE_NAME" )o TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-6401TA  , $  MOUNT/OVER=(SEC,ID)/NOASS/NOWRITE DKA500:@ %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST3 mounted on _LF$DKA500:   !  a ODS2 CD-R   4 $  DIR/SIZ=ALL/DA/NOHE/NOTR DKA500:[000000]$$$*.SYS  DKA500:[000000]$$$TEST4.SYS;1(=                      1280000/1280000  31-OCT-2001 21:28:28.54a  0 $  LD CONNECT DKA500:[000000]$$$TEST4.SYS LDA2:   " $  MOUNT/OVER=(SEC,ID)/NOASS LDA2:* %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked0 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST4DISK mounted on _LF$LDA2:   $  LD NOPROTECT LDA2:  h   $  mls :== $t_exe:mlsearch.exe  C $  mls /file=LDA2:[usr.JoeBloggs.mail]mail.mai  nosuchfolder foobarh+ %MLSEARCH-I-NOMATCHALL, No strings matched..   $ mail1 MAIL> set file lda2:[usr.JoeBloggs.mail]mail.mai   MAIL> set fold newmail( %MAIL-I-SELECTED, 2602 messages selected MAIL> set fold mail   ( %MAIL-I-SELECTED, 1193 messages selected MAIL> set fold wastebasket3 %MAIL-E-NOTEXIST, folder WASTEBASKET does not exists MAIL> Exit g $n   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2001 10:04:54 GMTs) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)-7 Subject: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around"' Message-ID: <9sb106$f1n$1@joe.rice.edu>g( Keywords: zdnet,asia,openbsd,most-secure    From (URL wrapped to two lines):  >    http://www.zdnetasia.com/biztech/enterprisecomputing/story/    0,2000006876,38031115,00.htm H    ZDNet Asia: Business & Technology: OpenBSD: The most secure OS around  %   "OpenBSD: The most secure OS around     By Steven Vaughan-Nichols    sjvn@vna1.com    6/11/2001  D    You're probably sick and tired of running into the latest WindowsC    security snafu. And you're undoubtedly painfully aware that mostID    versions of Unix have their own major security holes, such as theH    recent HP-UX whopper. I'm guessing that you're wondering if there's aH    network operating system that gets security right. There is: OpenBSD.    .    .    .H    Whether you buy that theory or not, experts agree that OpenBSD is the8    most secure server operating system now available..."  0 The article has a place to post reader comments.   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:16:59 GMTs& From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org>; Subject: Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Aroundo? Message-ID: <LK8G7.66946$jq6.18988618@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>e  
 It's also at:n  K http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2822483,00.htmlr   Kene  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:9sb106$f1n$1@joe.rice.edu...C" > From (URL wrapped to two lines): > @ >    http://www.zdnetasia.com/biztech/enterprisecomputing/story/! >    0,2000006876,38031115,00.htmlJ >    ZDNet Asia: Business & Technology: OpenBSD: The most secure OS around >y' >   "OpenBSD: The most secure OS aroundh >    By Steven Vaughan-Nichols >    sjvn@vna1.com >    6/11/2001 >vF >    You're probably sick and tired of running into the latest WindowsE >    security snafu. And you're undoubtedly painfully aware that mostuF >    versions of Unix have their own major security holes, such as theJ >    recent HP-UX whopper. I'm guessing that you're wondering if there's aJ >    network operating system that gets security right. There is: OpenBSD. >    . >    . >    .J >    Whether you buy that theory or not, experts agree that OpenBSD is the: >    most secure server operating system now available..." > 2 > The article has a place to post reader comments. >f > --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 12:39:25 +0100i+ From: Maarten van Tilburg <mtilburg@wxs.nl>f; Subject: Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Aroundf& Message-ID: <3BE91D6D.5D6DFEF6@wxs.nl>   Jerry Leslie wrote:C > " > From (URL wrapped to two lines): > @ >    http://www.zdnetasia.com/biztech/enterprisecomputing/story/! >    0,2000006876,38031115,00.htm J >    ZDNet Asia: Business & Technology: OpenBSD: The most secure OS around > ' >   "OpenBSD: The most secure OS around  >    By Steven Vaughan-Nichols >    sjvn@vna1.com >    6/11/2001 > F >    You're probably sick and tired of running into the latest WindowsE >    security snafu. And you're undoubtedly painfully aware that mostOF >    versions of Unix have their own major security holes, such as theJ >    recent HP-UX whopper. I'm guessing that you're wondering if there's aJ >    network operating system that gets security right. There is: OpenBSD. >    . >    . >    .J >    Whether you buy that theory or not, experts agree that OpenBSD is the: >    most secure server operating system now available..." > 2 > The article has a place to post reader comments. >  > --Jerry Leslie  ' They probably missed the CERT advisory  . http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2001-30.html   Systems Affected$ BSDi BSD/OS Version 4.1 and earlier  Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 and 2.1r4 eC FreeBSD All released versions FreeBSD 4.x, 3.x, FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE,d* 3.5.1-STABLE prior to the correction date C Hewlett-Packard HP9000 Series 700/800 running HP-UX releases 10.01,t 10.10, 10.20, 11.00, and 11.11 o! IBM AIX Versions 4.3 and AIX 5.1 t+ Mandrake Linux Versions 6.0, 6.1, 7.0, 7.1   NetBSD 1.5.2 and earlier e  OpenBSD Version 2.9 and earlier $ Red Hat Linux 6.0 all architectures * SCO OpenServer Version 5.0.6a and earlier  SGI IRIX 6.5-6.5.13  Sun Solaris 8 and earlier 6 SuSE Linux Versions 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4, 7.0, 7.1, 7.2     " No TRU64 or TCPIP on VMS mentioned   Maarten van TilburgR   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:58:31 -06001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>n; Subject: Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Aroundl8 Message-ID: <9sbi7d$fie$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   I snet\/1 "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org> wrote in message 9 news:LK8G7.66946$jq6.18988618@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...s > It's also at:e >w > K http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2822483,00.htmlt >o > Kena >-8 > "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message# > news:9sb106$f1n$1@joe.rice.edu....$ > > From (URL wrapped to two lines): > >HB > >    http://www.zdnetasia.com/biztech/enterprisecomputing/story/# > >    0,2000006876,38031115,00.htm1L > >    ZDNet Asia: Business & Technology: OpenBSD: The most secure OS around > > ) > >   "OpenBSD: The most secure OS around   > >    By Steven Vaughan-Nichols > >    sjvn@vna1.com > >    6/11/2001 > >aH > >    You're probably sick and tired of running into the latest WindowsG > >    security snafu. And you're undoubtedly painfully aware that most H > >    versions of Unix have their own major security holes, such as theL > >    recent HP-UX whopper. I'm guessing that you're wondering if there's aL > >    network operating system that gets security right. There is: OpenBSD. > >    . > >    . > >    .L > >    Whether you buy that theory or not, experts agree that OpenBSD is the< > >    most secure server operating system now available..." > >o4 > > The article has a place to post reader comments. > >h > > --Jerry Leslie >t >n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 09:00:42 -06001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>p; Subject: Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Aroundo8 Message-ID: <9sbibf$flc$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  G I just sent a comment to the author and mentioned the CERT stuff below.r  @ I also mentioned OpenVMS and Tru64.  Let's see if I get a reply.   Dave...k  8 "Maarten van Tilburg" <mtilburg@wxs.nl> wrote in message  news:3BE91D6D.5D6DFEF6@wxs.nl... > Jerry Leslie wrote:k > > $ > > From (URL wrapped to two lines): > >rB > >    http://www.zdnetasia.com/biztech/enterprisecomputing/story/# > >    0,2000006876,38031115,00.htmtL > >    ZDNet Asia: Business & Technology: OpenBSD: The most secure OS around > >a) > >   "OpenBSD: The most secure OS aroundi  > >    By Steven Vaughan-Nichols > >    sjvn@vna1.com > >    6/11/2001 > >dH > >    You're probably sick and tired of running into the latest WindowsG > >    security snafu. And you're undoubtedly painfully aware that mosttH > >    versions of Unix have their own major security holes, such as theL > >    recent HP-UX whopper. I'm guessing that you're wondering if there's aL > >    network operating system that gets security right. There is: OpenBSD. > >    . > >    . > >    .L > >    Whether you buy that theory or not, experts agree that OpenBSD is the< > >    most secure server operating system now available..." > >:4 > > The article has a place to post reader comments. > >- > > --Jerry Leslie >-( > They probably missed the CERT advisory0 > http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2001-30.html >m > Systems Affected% > BSDi BSD/OS Version 4.1 and earliers  > Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 and 2.1r4E > FreeBSD All released versions FreeBSD 4.x, 3.x, FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE,d+ > 3.5.1-STABLE prior to the correction dateuE > Hewlett-Packard HP9000 Series 700/800 running HP-UX releases 10.01,e  > 10.10, 10.20, 11.00, and 11.11" > IBM AIX Versions 4.3 and AIX 5.1, > Mandrake Linux Versions 6.0, 6.1, 7.0, 7.1 > NetBSD 1.5.2 and earlier! > OpenBSD Version 2.9 and earlier % > Red Hat Linux 6.0 all architecturesf+ > SCO OpenServer Version 5.0.6a and earlier- > SGI IRIX 6.5-6.5.13e > Sun Solaris 8 and earlier(7 > SuSE Linux Versions 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4, 7.0, 7.1, 7.2l >I > $ > No TRU64 or TCPIP on VMS mentioned >k > Maarten van Tilburg8   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:12:56 -06001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>o; Subject: Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Aroundf8 Message-ID: <9sbmiu$gb1$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   Got a reply.  6 Everybody gets hammered--including OpenVMS and Tru64--  A OpenBSD though is more proactive about finding potential security   = holes and squashing them. For OpenBSD, security is job numberd  9 one, with performance, features, and so on coming second.t  9 FWIW, my own pick for the most secure OS after OpenBSD isc  < NetWare, then NetBSD, and then OpenVMS. I'd put Tru64 in the  D next class down. But, as the saying goes, and it's true, security is  < a process, not a product. You can make any OS wide open, you  = can secure even Windows, OpenBSD just is far easier to secure   C than others and tends to have less holes than the rest of the crew.l   Thanks for the note.   Steven          ' Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols sjvn@vna1.com   < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message2 news:9sbibf$flc$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...I > I just sent a comment to the author and mentioned the CERT stuff below.s >rB > I also mentioned OpenVMS and Tru64.  Let's see if I get a reply. >a	 > Dave...e >i: > "Maarten van Tilburg" <mtilburg@wxs.nl> wrote in message" > news:3BE91D6D.5D6DFEF6@wxs.nl... > > Jerry Leslie wrote:g > > >l& > > > From (URL wrapped to two lines): > > >nD > > >    http://www.zdnetasia.com/biztech/enterprisecomputing/story/% > > >    0,2000006876,38031115,00.htmMG > > >    ZDNet Asia: Business & Technology: OpenBSD: The most secure OSn around > > > + > > >   "OpenBSD: The most secure OS around " > > >    By Steven Vaughan-Nichols > > >    sjvn@vna1.com > > >    6/11/2001 > > >xJ > > >    You're probably sick and tired of running into the latest WindowsI > > >    security snafu. And you're undoubtedly painfully aware that mosttJ > > >    versions of Unix have their own major security holes, such as theL > > >    recent HP-UX whopper. I'm guessing that you're wondering if there's a E > > >    network operating system that gets security right. There is:a OpenBSD.
 > > >    .
 > > >    .
 > > >    .J > > >    Whether you buy that theory or not, experts agree that OpenBSD is the)> > > >    most secure server operating system now available..." > > >V6 > > > The article has a place to post reader comments. > > >t > > > --Jerry Leslie > >o* > > They probably missed the CERT advisory2 > > http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2001-30.html > >  > > Systems Affected' > > BSDi BSD/OS Version 4.1 and earliere" > > Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 and 2.1r4G > > FreeBSD All released versions FreeBSD 4.x, 3.x, FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE, - > > 3.5.1-STABLE prior to the correction datedG > > Hewlett-Packard HP9000 Series 700/800 running HP-UX releases 10.01,d" > > 10.10, 10.20, 11.00, and 11.11$ > > IBM AIX Versions 4.3 and AIX 5.1. > > Mandrake Linux Versions 6.0, 6.1, 7.0, 7.1 > > NetBSD 1.5.2 and earlier# > > OpenBSD Version 2.9 and earlierr' > > Red Hat Linux 6.0 all architecturesw- > > SCO OpenServer Version 5.0.6a and earlier  > > SGI IRIX 6.5-6.5.13t > > Sun Solaris 8 and earlier>9 > > SuSE Linux Versions 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4, 7.0, 7.1, 7.20 > >n > >c& > > No TRU64 or TCPIP on VMS mentioned > >r > > Maarten van Tilburg  >M >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:50:52 -06001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>e; Subject: Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Arounda8 Message-ID: <9sboq3$gnh$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   Another reply.  9 On 7 Nov 2001, at 10:11, david.gudewicz@abbott.com wrote:>   >i  	 > Steven,r   >   C > Thanks for the quick reply. And permit me to add another comment.u  F > I've been working with VMS/OpenVMS for >15 years now and run a local  @ > users group here in Chicagoland. I've yet to have or hear of a  E > security/DOS/whatever with any VMS system. This includes govenrmenta  E > installations, banks, stock exchanges and the like. Is VMS perfect.r  $ > Nope. Is it pretty darn good. Yep.   >e  	 > Dave...i   >s  B No argument from me. While personally I also disliked working with  ; VMS--what can I say I'm a Unix guy from way, way back--if I   G wanted to put up a clustered solution with high realibility being firsta  F and foremost--but they didn't want to pay for a non-stop solution--I'd  1 probably pick OpenVMS over my second choice--AIX.    Steven  ' Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols sjvn@vna1.com,   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 17:46:41 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)h; Subject: Re: ZDNet Asia: OpenBSD: The Most Secure OS Around 0 Message-ID: <00A04B12.B65DE113@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <9sbmiu$gb1$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes:
 >Got a reply.s >l7 >Everybody gets hammered--including OpenVMS and Tru64--s >sB >OpenBSD though is more proactive about finding potential security >0> >holes and squashing them. For OpenBSD, security is job number >:: >one, with performance, features, and so on coming second. >g: >FWIW, my own pick for the most secure OS after OpenBSD is >4= >NetWare, then NetBSD, and then OpenVMS. I'd put Tru64 in the. >pE >next class down. But, as the saying goes, and it's true, security is  >y= >a process, not a product. You can make any OS wide open, youw >t> >can secure even Windows, OpenBSD just is far easier to secure >oD >than others and tends to have less holes than the rest of the crew. >  >Thanks for the note.1 >u >StevenL  A Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is a hired column thug.  Paid no doubt PA by the folks backing OpenBSD.  If you research his "writings", he3@ has never written about VMS and from that, one can only concludeB that he has never used VMS.  Also, for a guy commenting about sec-5 urity, it seems he doesn't practice what he preaches.v  M ***  MicroVAX-IV (the final MicroVAX) has achieved a 2-year uptime today! ***  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            :J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & HobbesA   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.620 ************************