1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 08 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 622       Contents:+ 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems  ????????--????????.info .biz cant turn on ucx logging Re: cant turn on ucx logging Re: cant turn on ucx logging Re: cant turn on ucx logging Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees?% Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof) % Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof) $ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS EMC + software raid  Re: EMC + software raid 2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!% Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.1 % Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.1 % Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.1 % Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.1  ignore - just a test post  Re: Infoserver 1000  Re: InfoServer 1000, phase 2$ Ionas Orbix and BEAs Weblogic on VMS< Is TCP/IP really needed to install WEBES and Compaq Analyze?@ Re: Is TCP/IP really needed to install WEBES and Compaq Analyze?1 Looking for NEXUS BSI for MANMAN on OpenVMS Alpha 5 Re: Looking for NEXUS BSI for MANMAN on OpenVMS Alpha * Looking for Target->Batch on OpenVMS Alpha Re: Lost system password Re: Lost system password Re: Lost system password% MQseries Publish/Subscribe on OpenVMS  Re: ok I am back in my office - OpenVMS/Alpha v7.2-1 to 7.3: upgrade or wait? 1 Re: OpenVMS/Alpha v7.2-1 to 7.3: upgrade or wait?  Re: OT - HP's MPE-IX( OT: "on the back of a corn flake packet" Transparent RMS access to TCPIP # Re: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP ! Re: VMS721_Mount96-v0300 Question ! Re: VMS721_Mount96-v0300 Question  welcome.txt  Re: welcome.txt  Re: welcome.txt  Re: welcome.txt $ What comes after TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN?( Re: What comes after TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN?( What comes after TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN? (2)) What Compaq & HP should be told about VMS  Re: Which Disks are Which?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:14:31 +1030 % From: Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> 4 Subject: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems* Message-ID: <3BEA37DF.155C3DDF@vsm.com.au>   Hi,   I I'm investigating the purchase of an AlphaServer DS10 or DS10L for my own I use.  I'd like to put plenty of memory in, but buying systems from Compaq G pre-configured with lots of RAM costs lots of $$$.  Especially when you B consider the purchase price of comparable memory for high-end PCs.  N Has anyone had experience of installing (cheaper) memory in the AlphaServer DS systems?   Thanks,            Jeremy Begg   =   +---------------------------------------------------------+ =   |            VSM Software Services Pty. Ltd.              | =   |                 http://www.vsm.com.au/                  | =   |       "OpenVMS Systems Management & Programming"        | =   |---------------------------------------------------------| =   | P.O.Box 402, Walkerville, |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au | =   | South Australia 5081      |   Phone:  +61 8 83592155    | =   |---------------------------|  Mobile:  0414 422 947      | =   |  A.C.N. 068 409 156       |     FAX:  +61 8 82231777    | =   +---------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 02:39:00 -0800 : From: bes@out-fits.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bernard_Str=E4hl?=)8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems= Message-ID: <eb298964.0111080239.3da74e6f@posting.google.com>   W Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> wrote in message news:<3BEA37DF.155C3DDF@vsm.com.au>...  > Hi,  > K > I'm investigating the purchase of an AlphaServer DS10 or DS10L for my own K > use.  I'd like to put plenty of memory in, but buying systems from Compaq I > pre-configured with lots of RAM costs lots of $$$.  Especially when you D > consider the purchase price of comparable memory for high-end PCs. > P > Has anyone had experience of installing (cheaper) memory in the AlphaServer DS
 > systems? > 	 > Thanks,  >  >         Jeremy Begg  > ? >   +---------------------------------------------------------+ ? >   |            VSM Software Services Pty. Ltd.              | ? >   |                 http://www.vsm.com.au/                  | ? >   |       "OpenVMS Systems Management & Programming"        | ? >   |---------------------------------------------------------| ? >   | P.O.Box 402, Walkerville, |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au | ? >   | South Australia 5081      |   Phone:  +61 8 83592155    | ? >   |---------------------------|  Mobile:  0414 422 947      | ? >   |  A.C.N. 068 409 156       |     FAX:  +61 8 82231777    | ? >   +---------------------------------------------------------+ 	 Hi Jeremy   D the question of which RAM's to install is layered with the question:= do you have an official maintenance contract with DEC or not? F If yes you must buy official DEC RAMs or KINGSTON RAMs. Otherwise yourC maintenance contract is more or less useless. A DEC tekkno told me. F If not the you may install every RAM but it's definetely better to get% good quality RAM and no no-name RAMs.    bye Bernard    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 08:01:02 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems3 Message-ID: <dx3xAiYlKTa5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   z In article <eb298964.0111080239.3da74e6f@posting.google.com>, bes@out-fits.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bernard_Str=E4hl?=) writes:  F > the question of which RAM's to install is layered with the question:? > do you have an official maintenance contract with DEC or not? H > If yes you must buy official DEC RAMs or KINGSTON RAMs. Otherwise yourE > maintenance contract is more or less useless. A DEC tekkno told me.   ? A common technique is to have enough DEC memory for maintenance A purposes and additional memory from a more cost-efficient vendor.   : Then when service time comes, remove the "foreign" memory.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 NOV 2001 15:49:59 GMT + From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> 8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems1 Message-ID: <8NOV01.15495933@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>   & Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> wrote: > Hi,  >   K > I'm investigating the purchase of an AlphaServer DS10 or DS10L for my own K > use.  I'd like to put plenty of memory in, but buying systems from Compaq I > pre-configured with lots of RAM costs lots of $$$.  Especially when you D > consider the purchase price of comparable memory for high-end PCs. >   P > Has anyone had experience of installing (cheaper) memory in the AlphaServer DS
 > systems?  J I installed 1GB of "foreign" memory on my DS10 when I got it in Feb. (withG 5GB CPQ memory).  I'm afraid I can't tell you what the brand is.  I did I a web search and looked for the best price on compatible memory.  I still J have my notes and will email them if you want (they include prices & urls) although they're US-centric.  J I've not had any problem with either the foreign or CPQ memory - but I didK have a problem with the fact that I had >=1.5GB memory on my DS10.  AUTOGEN K calculated bad values for the NPAG_BAP parameters and the system refused to L boot into my cluster ("insufficient non-paged pool for initialization").  ItG did boot standalone.  I had to force the values for those parameters to  their defaults.    Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 16:37:59 -0000 + From: "Today's NetWork" <market@now.net.cn> % Subject: ????????--????????.info .biz > Message-ID: <20011108163759.23819.qmail@localhost.localdomain>  L Crv6sru/ycqnLS299Lyxx8DXoi5pbmZvIC5iaXogCtf3zqrQxc+iyrG0+tfuw/fIt7Hq1r4sLklOL Rk8gLkJJWrXEt6LVub/VvOTO49O5tuDLtaOsy/y9q7PJzqrN+MLn0MXPorf+zvG1xMrX0aHT8sP7L oaMgCi5JTkZPIC5CSVrOqs2o08O2pby20/LD+6OsLklORk8gLkJJWrT6se3Su7DjtcTQxc+it/7OL 8cq508O6zcnM0rWho8v81+6087XEzNi148rHyKvH8iAKzajTwyzS19PayrnTw6OsutzHv7XEyraxL 8NDUo6y/ydLUzOa0+i5DT021xM2o08O2pby20/LD+6Ost8ezo8rK08PT2szhuanQxc+it/7O8bXEL xvPStaGjIAoKyrG0tM34wucoaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ub3cubmV0LmNuKdX9yr3NxrP2LmluZm8gLmJpL etPyw/vV/cq916Ky4aOs16Ky4cH3s8zNrLn6vMrT8sP7IAqjqC5jb20vLm5ldC8ub3Jno6nSu9H5L vPK1paOssqK/yb/sy9mzybmmo6zXorLhs8m5prrzwu3Jz7/J0tTKudPDoaMgCgooMSkgy63T0NfKL uPHJ6sfrLmluZm/T8sP7IAouaW5mb8rHzqjSu8O709DXorLhz97WxrXE1+7Qwrn6vMq2pby20/LDL +6Osy/nS1MjOus7Iy7a8v8nS1Mnqx+sgCgooMikgLmluZm/T8sP70+suY2O6zS50diAKLmluZm/KL x82o08O5+rzKtqW8ttPyw/ujrMv80+suY29tIC5uZXQgLm9yZyDK9NPazazA4NPyw/ujrNPJSUNBL Tk7Ns9K7vfjQ0LncwO2juyAKtvguIGNjLC50dsrHufq80rT6wuu5+rzKtqW8ttPyw/ujrLrNLmNuL IC5jYcr0zazA4NPyw/ujrCAuY27V4tH5tcTT8sP7yse56c/gudi1xCAKufq80r340NC53MDttcSjL rNK7sOPWu7bUsb65+r340NDP+srbo6zWu9PQt8ezo8zYyuK1xL7f09C63LjfyczStbzb1rW1xNPyL w/uyxbbUufq8yiAKxuTL/Ln6vNK9+NDQz/rK26GjIAoKKDMpIC5pbmZv0/LD+7XE16Ky4bzbuPG6L zcbaz97Kx8qyw7QgCi5pbmZv0/LD+8rHNDIw1Kovwb3E6qOsufq8ytPyw/u53MDtu/q5ubnmtqjQL wteisuHX7snZ16Ky4TLE6qGjIAoKKDQpIM7Sv8nS1Lrcv+y1xMq508MuaW5mb9Pyw/vC8CAKztLDL x8i3yM/E+r27v+6687vhwaK8tM6qxPrV/cq916Ky4aOssqLU2jI00KHKsbrzyKvH8sn60KejoSAKL Cig1KSDQwralvLa5+rzK0/LD+7XE16Ky4bnm1PK6zdLUzfm1xLn6vMrT8sP716Ky4bnm1PLSu9H5L wvCjvyAKtPCjutDCtqW8trn6vMrT8sP7tcTXorLhuebU8rrN0tTN+c/gscjT0LrctPO1xLK7zayjL rNLUz8K74dPQt9bA4Mu1w/ejrMfrxPrP6s+4udjXoqGjIAoKCig2KbW9xMS2+b/JyerH67W9LmluL Zm/X7tDCufq8yralvLYgCrTwo7p3d3cubm93Lm5ldC5jbsqxtLTN+MLnyse5+sTaufq8yralvLbTL 8sP716Ky4bv6ubmjrLbA09BWRE5Tz7XNs8Tct72x47XYudzA7cT6tcS0zry20/LD+6OsvajBotfTL zfjVvqOsIArU2rTL16Ky4dPyw/u827jxv9XHsNPFu92jrMHtzeLO0sPHxeSxuL6rwby8vMr11qezL 1qOsv8mw6cT6x+HLybK9yOvJzM7x1q7Cw6GjIAoKCru2063E+tbC0MUgc3VwcG9ydEBub3cubmV0L LmNuIAq7ttOtxPq3w87KIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubm93Lm5ldC5jbiAKCtbpuqPM7Lulv8a8vNPQz965L q8u+IArBqs+1yMujusfx0KG946Ghu8bQob3jIAq5q8u+tee7sKO6IDA3NTYtLTIxMjU1ODMgMjEy@ NTU5MyAyMTI1NTIzIDIyNTI4NzIgCrmry760q9XmOiAwNzU2LS0yMjI5NjY5ICAK   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 03:44:07 -0800   From: ucxfoe@yahoo.com (UCX Foe)! Subject: cant turn on ucx logging < Message-ID: <981c2ce5.0111080344.dd594b0@posting.google.com>  
 hi all ...  5 Cant get logging for a specific service turned on ...    $ ucx  UCX> show version   >   Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V4.1 - ECO 8(   on a VAX 6000-560 running OpenVMS V6.2   UCX> sho serv/full toe    Service: TOE ... G Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO   Addr  File:        not defined  ...    UCX> set service toe  7 /log_options=(file=sys$specific:[ucx_toed]toed.log,all)  UCX> sho serv/full toe    Service: TOE ... G Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO   Addr  File:        not defined    UCX> sho serv/full/perm toe     Service: TOE ... G Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO   Addr  File:        not defined    What am I missing?   TIA,   /u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:46:43 +0100< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>% Subject: Re: cant turn on ucx logging 5 Message-ID: <9sdure$130hsq$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>    Oswald Knoppers wrote... >UCX Foe wrote:  >> What am I missing?  > I > Nothing. The logfile is not really used. It is up to the application to - > decide where (and if) tho log its messages.   E Apart from that, you have to restart (disable/enable) the service for  changes to take efect.   cu,    Martin --  J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/? And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:39:41 +0100 = From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl> % Subject: Re: cant turn on ucx logging 5 Message-ID: <3BEA7D0D.237FF5FB@contrastmediagroep.nl>    UCX Foe wrote:   > What am I missing?  G Nothing. The logfile is not really used. It is up to the application to + decide where (and if) tho log its messages.    Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:00:49 +01002 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>% Subject: Re: cant turn on ucx logging G Message-ID: <3bea805e$0$19808$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>   3 "UCX Foe" <ucxfoe@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 6 news:981c2ce5.0111080344.dd594b0@posting.google.com... > hi all ... > 7 > Cant get logging for a specific service turned on ...  >  > $ ucx  > UCX> show version  > @ >   Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V4.1 - ECO 8* >   on a VAX 6000-560 running OpenVMS V6.2 >  > UCX> sho serv/full toe >  > Service: TOE > ... H > Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO > Addr >  File:        not defined  > ...  >  > UCX> set service toe9 > /log_options=(file=sys$specific:[ucx_toed]toed.log,all)  > UCX> sho serv/full toe >  > Service: TOE > ... H > Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO > Addr >  File:        not defined  >  > UCX> sho serv/full/perm toe  >  > Service: TOE > ... H > Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO > Addr >  File:        not defined  >  > What am I missing? >  > TIA, >  > /u   Hi!   J Have you tried disabling an re-enabling the service after this change (ucxG disable service TOE / ucx enable service TOE)? Most of the changes take   effect only after this sequence.   Ren   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:06:42 +0010 ' From: <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au>  Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? 5 Message-ID: <01KAH08KAQNM0006GD@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Peter da Silva wrote:   - >In article <3BE992C1.1B78EEC1@videotron.ca>, 0 >JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:O >> It is reasonable to expect that VMS will continue to be maintained on Alpha. O >> It is also reasonable to expect a few more enhancements. Compaq/HP may cease L >> to sell/market VMS, but they'll continue to milk the customers for their  >money* >> and work to provide HP "upgrade" paths. > 2 >Maybe Compaq may need VMS more than they thought: > H >http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?column=TechWatch&siteid=mktw  > H >I hope Compaq can start up the EV8 development again. They may need to.  P Hmmm, but how are they going to beg back their EV8 engineers and (at least) the M CVF compiler group from Intel?  These must have been parts that Carly didn't  M want and if the merger does not go through, these would appear to be bridges  O that Curly has burnt.  Digital's/Compaq's Fortran development has always (from  L my experience) been first rate -- thanks Steve and colleagues.  Though I am L *NOT* a PC user, I would guess that CVF would have given them some of their  best Fortran compiler revenue.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 04:59:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? , Message-ID: <3BEA578C.2044B941@videotron.ca>  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:Q > Hmmm, but how are they going to beg back their EV8 engineers and (at least) the N > CVF compiler group from Intel?  These must have been parts that Carly didn'tN > want and if the merger does not go through, these would appear to be bridges > that Curly has burnt.   J If the merger doesn't go through, then it is to HP's advantage to have theM weakest possible Compaq. So any harm it could have inflicted to Compaq duringiN the merger talks is good for HP since it will strenghten HP against Compaq andE possibly weaken Compaq to a point where it is no longer a significantq competitor in the IT industry.  M If Curly was stupid enough to commit to the Intel giveaways before the merger L was finalised without a way to back out of that, then once the merger fails,L Compaq will be left naked , alone in the middle of the street during a heavyN snowstorm. But then, Compaq probably never wanted such things as compilers andJ enterprise systems, it just wants to concentrate on building wintel boxes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 07:01:02 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>g Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?g( Message-ID: <3BEA901E.A8C5EDF7@mmaz.com>   JF Mezei wrote:n  J > Compaq didn't need to jump on the IA64 bandwagon since it had a superiorH > product with Alpha. But Curly was too insecure and too focused on thisO > quarter's bottom line to look into the future and take a big leap to position 9 > Compaq as an industry leader instead of a Dell-wannabe.   Q Precisely, but if the Compaq board gets as pissed off at Curly as the HP board isrL getting with Carly, perhaps they will both be canned as well as all of theirO ludicrous plans...  Neither have demonstrated leadership and since Compaq holds!< the keys to VMS, lets just hope some sensibility prevails...   Barry0   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOV  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 06:57:45 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>z Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?o( Message-ID: <3BEA8F59.F7E9867A@mmaz.com>  & --------------7553F83CB79FEDA2524935AB* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt     Peter da Silva wrote:e  3 > Maybe Compaq may need VMS more than they thought:o >sH > http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?column=TechWatch&siteid=mktw >yI > I hope Compaq can start up the EV8 development again. They may need to.   T Compaq already put the gun to their head and pulled the trigger on Alpha unless theyQ can renege on the Intel deal.  Perhaps Carly and Curly will get canned and CompaqeL will refocus on what Digital great since they are tanking as a PC company...R Perhaps with Curly out too, the Compaq board might just wake up and put someone atP the helm that hasn't been assimilated by the Wintel mantra and will run with the Digital assets that remain...P   IMHO.e   Barryu     --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO-  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-70281    & --------------7553F83CB79FEDA2524935AB) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit.  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> &nbsp; <br>Peter da Silva wrote:sG <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Maybe Compaq may need VMS more than they thought:  <p><a href="http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?column=TechWatch&siteid=mktw">http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?column=TechWatch&amp;siteid=mktw</a>F <p>I hope Compaq can start up the EV8 development again. They may need to.</blockquote>H Compaq already put the gun to their head and pulled the trigger on AlphaG unless they can renege on the Intel deal.&nbsp; Perhaps Carly and Curly H will get canned and Compaq will refocus on what Digital great since theyK are tanking as a PC company...&nbsp; Perhaps with Curly out too, the Compaq-Q board might just wake up and put someone at the helm that hasn't been assimilatedeH by the Wintel mantra and will run with the Digital assets that remain... <p>IMHO. <br><br> Barry-
 <br>&nbsp; <p>--:F <p>Barry Treahy, Jr&nbsp; *&nbsp; Midwest Microwave&nbsp; *&nbsp; Vice President &amp; CIO-D <p>E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028 <br>&nbsp;</html>-  ( --------------7553F83CB79FEDA2524935AB--   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 13:56:06 GMT3& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?2% Message-ID: <9se2tm$ojb@web.nmti.com>e  , In article <3BEA1A41.BAAAA162@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: N > To Compaq, this consolidation will save billions and make Compaq profitable.  M Getting rid of their most profitable products in favor of ones they're losing-M money on would never have occurred to me as a way to improve profits. I guessr? that's why I'm not making the big bucks in a big corner office.    -- o+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.oE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."eL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:47:51 -0500m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>V Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?n, Message-ID: <3BEA9B12.2B71F8EE@videotron.ca>   Peter da Silva wrote:-O > Getting rid of their most profitable products in favor of ones they're losingoO > money on would never have occurred to me as a way to improve profits. I guess-A > that's why I'm not making the big bucks in a big corner office.   M But it is because of stupid companies such as Compaq that Bill Gates has made- all those big bucks.    L The problem is that Bill Gates will eventually run out of loyal companies asG they go belly up one by one because they were too busy catering to MS'ss? unprofitable products instead of looking after their own hides.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:52:43 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?M, Message-ID: <3BEA9C36.6F00C631@videotron.ca>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:S > Precisely, but if the Compaq board gets as pissed off at Curly as the HP board isjN > getting with Carly, perhaps they will both be canned as well as all of theirQ > ludicrous plans...  Neither have demonstrated leadership and since Compaq holdsl> > the keys to VMS, lets just hope some sensibility prevails...    M Perhaps Mr Shannon can answer this: would the Compaq board know about VMS andoI the profits it generates ? (i.e. does Compaq have internal numbers on themK profitability of the individual products, or would board members be totallytM clueless because they were never told about the profits generated by VMS ?) ?o    N The fact that Curly is still here is an indication that the Board doesn't mindE him squandering VMS and Alpha and that they support his wintel focus.o  A The board may oust the CEO, but who can oust the board en-masse ?1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:55:33 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?., Message-ID: <3BEA9CDF.84DC094E@videotron.ca>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:J > Compaq already put the gun to their head and pulled the trigger on AlphaM > unless they can renege on the Intel deal.  Perhaps Carly and Curly will getoM > canned and Compaq will refocus on what Digital great since they are tankingt > as a PC company... m    H No. Compaq is publicly faulted not for squandering VMS and other seriousU products, but because it is unable to compete against Dell to make low cost machines.m  N So if Curly is fired, it will be because he was unable to turn the pC businessJ around. And in all lieklyhood, his replacement will have as a mandate, theN turning around of the wintel business. And such a person will probably want toI move as many VMS/UNIX customers from the legacy OS to NT in order to helph! boost his sagging wintel profits.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:59:39 +0000G% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?r8 Message-ID: <pralutk9nnkaciu1djg8mguunf5eon38q9@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:47:51 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:f   >Peter da Silva wrote:P >> Getting rid of their most profitable products in favor of ones they're losingP >> money on would never have occurred to me as a way to improve profits. I guessB >> that's why I'm not making the big bucks in a big corner office. > N >But it is because of stupid companies such as Compaq that Bill Gates has made >all those big bucks.  >iM >The problem is that Bill Gates will eventually run out of loyal companies ascH >they go belly up one by one because they were too busy catering to MS's@ >unprofitable products instead of looking after their own hides.  D At  which point  Microsoft's XBOX games machine is 'upgraded' to runC full XP and Gates controls the hardware and the software. Magic eh?r -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:04:18 +0000c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>0 Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?r8 Message-ID: <n0blutsb23kdv7stlemvm1728lkric3l7q@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:52:43 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:K   >"Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:sT >> Precisely, but if the Compaq board gets as pissed off at Curly as the HP board isO >> getting with Carly, perhaps they will both be canned as well as all of theirtR >> ludicrous plans...  Neither have demonstrated leadership and since Compaq holds? >> the keys to VMS, lets just hope some sensibility prevails...A >y >jN >Perhaps Mr Shannon can answer this: would the Compaq board know about VMS andJ >the profits it generates ? (i.e. does Compaq have internal numbers on theL >profitability of the individual products, or would board members be totallyN >clueless because they were never told about the profits generated by VMS ?) ? >A >DO >The fact that Curly is still here is an indication that the Board doesn't mindcF >him squandering VMS and Alpha and that they support his wintel focus. >yB >The board may oust the CEO, but who can oust the board en-masse ?  B Ben Rosen. Recall that Curly mentioned that Ben Rosen had ok'd theC deal before Carly and Curly went public. I wouldn't be surprised ift6 Ben Rosen instructed Curly to get into bed with Carly.  C Although I'm not sure just how many shares he still owns. Ben Rosen0A founded Compaq as a PC company and presumably has problems seeingME beyond that. When Pfeiffer tried to emphasize the Enterprise productsK Rosen fired him. -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 16:18:30 GMTq1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?j, Message-ID: <9seb8m$1q1k$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3BEA9CDF.84DC094E@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> rK |> No. Compaq is publicly faulted not for squandering VMS and other seriousDX |> products, but because it is unable to compete against Dell to make low cost machines. |> iQ |> So if Curly is fired, it will be because he was unable to turn the pC businesseM |> around. And in all lieklyhood, his replacement will have as a mandate, the2Q |> turning around of the wintel business. And such a person will probably want tooL |> move as many VMS/UNIX customers from the legacy OS to NT in order to help$ |> boost his sagging wintel profits.  F Unless the decision to sweep out the attic is based on logic like thatF recently put out by William Hewlett that causes the board of directorsG to reconsider where the money is and what Compaq's core business shouldr
 really be.  G Too bad Ken Olsen isn't interested any more.  He probably has the money H to buy a strong voting block (maybe even a majority share the way things/ are going) of stock based on the current price.-   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 16:20:06 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)f Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? , Message-ID: <9sebbm$1q1k$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3BEA9C36.6F00C631@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> tD |> The board may oust the CEO, but who can oust the board en-masse ?   The stockholders, I thought.   bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Nov 2001 10:57:35 -0800, From: David Masterson <dmaster@synopsys.com> Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?i( Message-ID: <uadxx2iqo.fsf@synopsys.com>   >>>>> Alan Greig writes:  . > On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:47:51 -0500, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:-  B >> The problem is that Bill Gates will eventually run out of loyalF >> companies as they go belly up one by one because they were too busyB >> catering to MS's unprofitable products instead of looking after >> their own hides.   F > At  which point  Microsoft's XBOX games machine is 'upgraded' to runE > full XP and Gates controls the hardware and the software. Magic eh?g  < Kind of gives a whole new meaning to "shall we play a game?"   -- o: David Masterson                dmaster AT synopsys DOT com- Sr. R&D Engineer               Synopsys, Inc.n, Software Engineering           Sunnyvale, CA   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 07:39:28 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof)3 Message-ID: <X6Lj9QqNK173@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <9sc4q0$n9n$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:n  J > But if Compaq were to get out of the un-profitable PeeCee biz and decideI > to build on it's profitable VMS/Alpha biz what would they need HP for??   /    To learn how to be an other-than PC company.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:30:38 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)b. Subject: Re: Compaq's future (or lack thereof)7 Message-ID: <915384F47warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>s  / bill@cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote ine! <9sc4q0$n9n$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>: -  4 >In article <jIXlpXCplxVQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes::9 >|> In article <3BE87817.60A53F50@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeil+ >|> <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   >|> F >|> > If the HP takeover of Compaq fails, what will happen of Compaq ? >|> F >|>    IMHO the Hewletts are right.  More exposure to the PC market isG >|>    not most companies need right now.  HP should convince Compaq toaF >|>    split, buying the profitable lines and allowing the original PC& >|>    company to die a natural death. >yI >But if Compaq were to get out of the un-profitable PeeCee biz and decideSH >to build on it's profitable VMS/Alpha biz what would they need HP for?? >m >billa >&  L A cushion.  I suspect that "getting out" of any venture like that is hugely H expensive.  You've got fixed assets and employees to de-commission, and L that costs big bucks.  Far better if you can sell it (see "Alphacide").  If > you can't sell it, merge it with someone else's to dilute the  decommissioning costs.   ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)m The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:05:44 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>,- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinge8 Message-ID: <diikutcc1jg7k09racjev22rp5bnuo0o0v@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 19:35:26 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:    L >This is called charging what the market will bear (Alphas unfortunately nowM >being a largely captive market not particularly subject to normal supply andlJ >demand curves).  Although since there is *no* current market for Itanics,= >their memory pricing could be considered somewhat arbitrary.b  C Memory chips for the Alpha and Itanium server are probably the samehE DIMS anyway!  Official Compaq Alpha memory is overpriced to an almost E criminal degree. High quality new third party Alpha memory can be hadd: for a *tenth* of current Compaq prices if you shop around.   >w   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:07:57 +0000s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking 8 Message-ID: <4pikutscos6r1b0n7u8u94qt5uqf56sucj@4ax.com>  C On 7 Nov 2001 15:34:56 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t wrote:  n >In article <ZkhG7.90118$U7.7305726@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> tI >> If you want to throw capability aside (though I suspect most customers-H >> aren't that stupid), there's still the small problem that last time IM >> checked you couldn't buy *any* Itanic platform for anything near the price1
 >> of a DS10.. >>   >F= >	Ummmm.. how about if you want 16 GBytes of memory, have youw >	made that comparison?i   Rob,  D Could you explain the physical difference between Alphaserver memoryC and Itanium memory and what justifies Compaq's factor of 5-10 pricep hike?    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:15:27 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking 8 Message-ID: <e3jkutgj05poba5ve4o4jukoru4ukmncs6@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 19:14:31 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >M1 >Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messagea3 >news:kp4iutcjqg80djrof35r9iut2bdd1c1eme@4ax.com...  >V >... >dD >> I'm puzzled by $300 million VMS annual development. Are there 300H >> people working for VMS engineering on $1 million a year or something?H >> Or 50 on $6 million or what. Ok staffing isn't everything but what onF >> earth has VMS engineering been doing with $ 300 million a year.  OrE >> have we tagged all of the Alpha chip, systems etc design cost ontoc >> VMS?n >rE >My impression from when last this subject came up is that the numberyD >includes all layered-product development (compilers, etc.), release  F Yes, but even then  I think it's inflated. But why on earth should theF compilers and layered products be included in VMS charges when many of@ the products are common to Tru64 or even Windows. Did the entire@ Visual Fortran for Windows development cost get attached to VMS?F Wouldn't surprise me at this point. In which case VMS revenue was usedE to create  a product for Windows which was then handed over to Intel.g  J >engineering, etc.  The last number I heard for people actually working onG >the OS was about 100 (including management and possibly people largely  >performing support functions).  >a >- bill  >d >t   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 11:53:35 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingc) Message-ID: <3BEA723F.E457FA73@127.0.0.1>:   Alan Greig wrote:t > E > On 7 Nov 2001 15:34:56 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e > wrote:  E > >       Ummmm.. how about if you want 16 GBytes of memory, have yout > >       made that comparison?m >   F > Could you explain the physical difference between Alphaserver memoryE > and Itanium memory and what justifies Compaq's factor of 5-10 price  > hike?n  ? There isn't one. While the memory will^H^H^H^H should have been>> specifically qualified, memory is memory to any specification.  H I would hope that when the Itanium VMS systems hit the streets, we'll be$ on "peecee" level hardware costings.  E But if Compaq think folks will put up with paying $1500 for a system,.E then  $2500 for a (say, cluster) licence, they'd better rethink their  scale of charges.a  < Last night I watched the Money programme (UK BBC2) about theC airline/tourism industry, and on the up and up is Ryan Air, the VMS>G division at Cpq should take a leaf from their book, even in the currentiB climate, this company is making profits where others, even the big# players, are going out of business.   ) Profit by large volume, not large margin.- (My opinion of course) -- -( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comM   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 08:22:09 -0600n+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking,3 Message-ID: <JZYOV6xOdt3Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <4pikutscos6r1b0n7u8u94qt5uqf56sucj@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:E > On 7 Nov 2001 15:34:56 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u > wrote: > o >>In article <ZkhG7.90118$U7.7305726@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:i >>> J >>> If you want to throw capability aside (though I suspect most customersI >>> aren't that stupid), there's still the small problem that last time I N >>> checked you couldn't buy *any* Itanic platform for anything near the price >>> of a DS10. >>>  >>> >>	Ummmm.. how about if you want 16 GBytes of memory, have you >>	made that comparison? >  > Rob, > F > Could you explain the physical difference between Alphaserver memoryE > and Itanium memory and what justifies Compaq's factor of 5-10 pricet > hike?r >   A 	No.. and having been down that path numerous times.... it is one C 	of the few profit centers for large system sales for most vendors. A 	You can do similar comparison on other large Unix boxes... theirn? 	prices may not be as out of line but are certainly higher than. 	"Wintel" kit.  F 	A few years ago I put together a sizable Alpha configuration $$$ and C 	wanted very badly to go 3rd party on memory as it would have savednA 	a ton of money.  Things worked out.  I still would have liked to-@ 	go 3rd party as the $ savings were still substantial but I alsoF 	realize that Digital took a beating on the sale.  My goal is to save B 	the client (employer/whatever) money.  I also realize Compaq and E 	others are in the business of making money on hardware sales.  TheresB 	is a tension there.  I don't want to be rude with sales folks but9 	I also want to be a good steward and spend money wisely.u  @ 	Which if you think about it . . . VMS on Itanium knocks one leg@ 	out of the argument to knife VMS.  I forsee a day when there isB 	a bid ... a very large bid... perhaps governent... perhaps not...C 	but it is a VMS + Itanium kit versus Solaris and Sparc kit... when B 	the smoke clears the all powerful BeanCounters have the final sayB 	and the VMS bid wins as it is $3-4 million cheaper.  This ItaniumB 	thing won't be a bad thing.... trust me.  Yes, it may be an AlphaD 	thing at first until Intel gets those switches on chip and the good, 	Doctor Emer delivers the SMT special sauce.   				Robf   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 11:19:21 +00001( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters) Message-ID: <3BEA6A39.FAAA9360@127.0.0.1>u  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:B > >Perfectdisk has a defragmenting methodology which helps preventF > >fragmentation. Firstly old files (not often accessed) end up at theD > >edges of the disk (most head movement, less likely to be accessedI > >'regularly', or deleted leaving a 'hole'), more often accesed file aree  G > But how do you know that these files are at the "edge" or "center" ofn > the disk?e   > Just curious.s  F The reporting system you get with PD gives you a 'map' of the disk and@ on the report designates files into each of the categories. WhenG deciding the old while (which it desciribes as warehouse files) it usesrH the date fields, but also makes use of file expiration dates in order toF determine date of last access. These are user configurable, so in factC you can determine how long it is since a file is accessed (ignoringiH BACKUP of course) before it is declared warehouse. It uses the letters WH and w for warehouse, V and v for volatile, O and o for 'ordinary' files,F X or x for unmoveable files and whitespace for blank. (lowercase means! incomplete 'cluster' of filetype)-  ; you can get a full report with the LBNs if you really want.r  G anyway, after a pass you can see it has moved files around, and the W's B end up at either end of the disk. free space centred, ish, and V's centre placed as well.  F it also has a file placement list, where you put percentage across theD disk you'd prefer a file to go, and it'll try to honour that, and an> exclusion list. you can tell it to honour or ignore the NOMOVE> attribute, and you can force it to use the MOVEFILE primitive.  H as another respondant said, it can on repeated passes try to move thingsF to accomodate your needs, but you do have some control with qualifiersG as to how far it should go. typically it 'throttles' itself with normal G system usage, but if you give it the run of the systems, it really does > clobber IO and CPU, and does a damn good job of doing the file
 placement.  C don't get me wrong though, it will be limited by what it can do, if H files are open or the space is occupied and a file can't be located, youF can still end up with files not quite where you'd expect them. howeverH i'd also say you'll get the best from it by understanding how and why it does what it tries to do.t  D (my file placement values was based on experiences with the run timeC libraries loaded from RK05's under RSTS/E, and (perhaps subjective)r) observation of file placement under VMS).t  C if you're really interested, drop me an email and i'll forward somePH ASCII maps that the reporting tool displays, this may make a little more sense.  F while were on the subject, a, interesting discussion topic would be onC the value of defragmenting RAID5 volumes. I established with CompaqtC engineering that the low LBNs are spread in the low LBNs of all thet2 drives in the raidset, and so on to the high LBNs.  H My take on this is that you are reducing the number of mapping pointers,C so that VMS has an easier job of doing the file access, even if theoD physical IO is split by controller intervention. Actual placement isE less of an issue, but consolidating free space is good (expecially ifnD you have wisely set extent sizes). One irony of placing files at theF beginning of the disk as "not often accessed" is due to the rotationalD velocity, this area of the disk is capable of higher transfer rates.   -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:33:19 GMT-= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)l( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters0 Message-ID: <00A04BB0.1A048737@SendSpamHere.ORG>  T In article <3BEA6A39.FAAA9360@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:>C >> >Perfectdisk has a defragmenting methodology which helps preventeG >> >fragmentation. Firstly old files (not often accessed) end up at the E >> >edges of the disk (most head movement, less likely to be accessedeJ >> >'regularly', or deleted leaving a 'hole'), more often accesed file are > H >> But how do you know that these files are at the "edge" or "center" of >> the disk? >  >> Just curious. >oG >The reporting system you get with PD gives you a 'map' of the disk andNA >on the report designates files into each of the categories. WhentH >deciding the old while (which it desciribes as warehouse files) it usesI >the date fields, but also makes use of file expiration dates in order to G >determine date of last access. These are user configurable, so in fact D >you can determine how long it is since a file is accessed (ignoringI >BACKUP of course) before it is declared warehouse. It uses the letters WsI >and w for warehouse, V and v for volatile, O and o for 'ordinary' files,nG >X or x for unmoveable files and whitespace for blank. (lowercase meansc" >incomplete 'cluster' of filetype) >g< >you can get a full report with the LBNs if you really want.  I But, LBNs near the edge of a logical disk may not correlate with physical-J blocks near the edges of the platters.  It is also quite conceivable that H a fragmented file places the data on the physical platters in such a way# as to limit/minimize head movement.t  I FYI, I'm not knocking PerfectDisk, I'm just checking to see if you under-c) stand what it claims it is doing for you.   M ***  MicroVAX-IV (the final MicroVAX) has achieved a 2-year uptime today! ***l --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             tJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:22:21 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters) Message-ID: <3BEAA32D.BB5D8FB2@127.0.0.1>n  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >   > > >you can get a full report with the LBNs if you really want. > K > But, LBNs near the edge of a logical disk may not correlate with physical K > blocks near the edges of the platters.  It is also quite conceivable thatnJ > a fragmented file places the data on the physical platters in such a way% > as to limit/minimize head movement.h > K > FYI, I'm not knocking PerfectDisk, I'm just checking to see if you under-a+ > stand what it claims it is doing for you.e  F What I believe you're talking about is the 'spare' areas that are usedA during disk formatting for 'bad block' areas and control areas ? ,  D In the second I understand what you're talking about where a file isE placed on a single cylinder lets say, perhaps leaving unused tracks /p sectors?  F I don't think I want to consider RAID5, if you've three physical disksA partitioned into 6, if what I said before is true, then the firstnD partitions end up with the large LBNs at the low end of the physicalB block range. You are right, end LBNs may be nowhere near end PBNs.   -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 07:03:41 -0600-& From: Charles Sebold <csebold@ezl.com> Subject: Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMSr4 Message-ID: <87zo5xxvma.fsf@leclerc.livingtorah.org>  * On 21 Cheshvan 5762, Stefan Monnier wrote:  B > Has anybody worked on the VMS port of Emacs to get a more recentF > version than 19.28 working ?  Would anybody be interested in porting > Emacs-21 to VMS ?l  D I think I had heard that Brian Schenkenberger was working on portingE Emacs 20 a little while ago, but running into problems.  You can find A him in comp.os.vms most days.  I don't know how far he got, but I 1 certainly never heard an announcement of success.q  B I can't even begin to tell you how wonderful it would be to have a7 recent Emacs on VMS.  (If I knew C, I would volunteer.)  -- dF Charles Sebold                                  22nd of Cheshvan, 5762   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 14:38:31 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)d Subject: Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMSV0 Message-ID: <00A04BC1.9748B7E6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ] In article <87zo5xxvma.fsf@leclerc.livingtorah.org>, Charles Sebold <csebold@ezl.com> writes:v+ >On 21 Cheshvan 5762, Stefan Monnier wrote:d >oC >> Has anybody worked on the VMS port of Emacs to get a more recent(G >> version than 19.28 working ?  Would anybody be interested in portingo >> Emacs-21 to VMS ? >nE >I think I had heard that Brian Schenkenberger was working on portingoF >Emacs 20 a little while ago, but running into problems.  You can findB >him in comp.os.vms most days.  I don't know how far he got, but I2 >certainly never heard an announcement of success.  E If it wasn't completely psycho-written shit code, you'd see a workingl copy by now.    C >I can't even begin to tell you how wonderful it would be to have a78 >recent Emacs on VMS.  (If I knew C, I would volunteer.)  E It's not C that's the problem per se.  Can you say autoconfig?  BuiltsD on C preprocessor dependancies that are little more than really uglyE unix hackery.  Everytime I rekindle my effort on this project, little B time is lost before my blood boils.  Targets are built in the sameD locations as the sources and, if a build fails, it can never be pro-D perly restarted (and this is 19.28).  Also, It might have been nice E if the Stallman crowd had merged the VMS mods of 19.28 into the laterrC versions but, since VMS is not a unix, it might have tainted their c precious unixy shit code.w  M ***  MicroVAX-IV (the final MicroVAX) has achieved a 2-year uptime today! ***  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             sJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesh   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:47:18 +0100 (MET).9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e Subject: Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS-; Message-ID: <01KAGT79CKOU90UTW5@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  G > It's not C that's the problem per se.  Can you say autoconfig?  BuiltgF > on C preprocessor dependancies that are little more than really uglyG > unix hackery.  Everytime I rekindle my effort on this project, littleoD > time is lost before my blood boils.  Targets are built in the sameF > locations as the sources and, if a build fails, it can never be pro-F > perly restarted (and this is 19.28).  Also, It might have been nice G > if the Stallman crowd had merged the VMS mods of 19.28 into the laterCE > versions but, since VMS is not a unix, it might have tainted their r > precious unixy shit code.   H No surprise here.  Stallman's ideas that ANY software which is not free E is INHERENTLY EVIL makes it unattractive for him or his followers to 0 support VMS in any form.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:15:21 +0000n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMSe8 Message-ID: <a9blut8kbee5p7r1kag41hq7cmu36m22a4@4ax.com>  8 On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:47:18 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:     I >No surprise here.  Stallman's ideas that ANY software which is not free nF >is INHERENTLY EVIL makes it unattractive for him or his followers to  >support VMS in any form.-  F That's not quite correct unless Stallman has altered his views since IE used to communicate with him back in the TOPS-20 EMACS days. It is anrD interpretation of his views given by many of his followers. StallmanF explicitly asked for VMS people to help him keep the GNU stuff current on VMS back in the early days. M  E Stallman did not call commercial copyrighted software evil but he diddD argue that it was not , by any means, the best way to do things. RMSC doesn't believe passwords should exist in an ideal world either but C that doesn't mean all his accounts are unprotected. Although he didpE leave passwords blank or RMS for years inviting people to look around - his accounts until the inevitable happened...  -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:34:47 +0800( From: "Kenneth" <yeungkenneth@yahoo.com> Subject: EMC + software raid0 Message-ID: <9se1b3$15i2@imsp212.netvigator.com>  K I am using VMS 7.2-1 with EMC disks. Does anyone has try to form a software  raid 0 with EMC disks?   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 09:05:51 -0600p+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)c  Subject: Re: EMC + software raid3 Message-ID: <CswN4t+FXpU8@eisner.encompasserve.org>q  [ In article <9se1b3$15i2@imsp212.netvigator.com>, "Kenneth" <yeungkenneth@yahoo.com> writes:eM > I am using VMS 7.2-1 with EMC disks. Does anyone has try to form a softwarel > raid 0 with EMC disks? >    	No.    9 	But if you read their documentation very carefully , yougB 	will find reference(s) to RAID Software for OpenVMS as a "helpfulE 	utility" which tells me they are recommending it and surely support nE 	it.  Even though VMS/OpenVMS isn't in the index, look at the bottom eD 	of page 4-4 in the Symmetrix Open Systems Environment Product Guide3 	Volume II for the reference to the aforementioned.e   				Robi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:57:32 +0010 ' From: <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au>o; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!-5 Message-ID: <01KAGZW88YLU000691@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>C  	 JF wrote:c   >Bob Ceculski wrote:L >> why would any vms user move to hp, ibm or sun junk?  if merger fails thenM >> compaq will be forced to revive alpha vms and maybe ev8 until itanium port O >> shows it is reliable and fast, or if they go bankrupt, then someone will buykH >> vms, and maybe that someone will take vms to the top were it belongs!  >> are you listening paul allen?  M To Bob, as Larry Kilgallen requested in this or some other thread, why can't 0N you capitalise?  In 1960's/1970's, Fortran (FORTRAN) only accepted uppercase. P These days with mixed case it is hard to read some of the older code.  With the H English language (and other European languages), it is hard to read all K lowercase.  If you wrote a book, it would be as arduous to read as Anthony   Burgess' "Clockwork Orange".  M >You're dreaming buddy. If the merger fails, Compaq will focus 200% on makingdH >is PC business profitable. If Dell can do it, so should Compaq, right ? >cN >By the way, Miceky Dell today said that no merger in the IT industry has everN >succeeded in making companies grow. Examples given were plenty (including theO >"bunch" etc), and both the Compaq Tandem and Compaq Digital fiascos.  If I hadoK >been him, I would have added "this is why I fully support HP buying Compaqi( >since it will eliminate 2 competitors".  P J-F, I've looked at some of my usual URL souces, but haven't seen this.  Do you  have a URL?f   [snips]$   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 04:55:11 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! , Message-ID: <3BEA567F.DA3171F2@videotron.ca>  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:P > >By the way, Miceky Dell today said that no merger in the IT industry has everP > >succeeded in making companies grow. Examples given were plenty (including theQ > >"bunch" etc), and both the Compaq Tandem and Compaq Digital fiascos.  If I hadeM > >been him, I would have added "this is why I fully support HP buying Compaq * > >since it will eliminate 2 competitors". > Q > J-F, I've looked at some of my usual URL souces, but haven't seen this.  Do you.
 > have a URL?V  M This was shown on CNN between 2 anthrax stories. There was a conference about N business in New York, where Mr Dell was a presenter and CNN shows a clip about% his thoughts on the HP-Compaq merger.n   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 04:07 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!a, Message-ID: <8NOV200104072989@gerg.tamu.edu>  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes... N }Seems that the HP board almost unanimously voted for the buyout of Compaq andN }showed support for Carly. Only one  vote was against: The rep for the Hewlett }family.  = This sort of statement by the board is basically meaningless.f  H Remember that if the deal doesn't happen and it can be attributed to oneH or the other of the two companies that that company has to pay the other1 a rather large fee (something like $675 million).d  D If the board *didn't* say "everything is fine, we are going ahead asH planned" then they would find themselves paying Compaq that rather largeK sum of money if it doesn't work out since the first side that says anythingl' negative about the deal gets the blame.i  C I'm pretty sure that if HP's shareholders vote against the deal andhD Compaq's vote for it, this also means HP pays the penalty to Compaq.C If they were to both vote it down then it is probably the case thata# neither one of them pays the other.s   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 06:09:53 -0800o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111080609.2e4eeaec@posting.google.com>m  d <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message news:<01KAGZW88YLU000691@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>... > JF wrote:f >  > >Bob Ceculski wrote:N > >> why would any vms user move to hp, ibm or sun junk?  if merger fails thenO > >> compaq will be forced to revive alpha vms and maybe ev8 until itanium portsQ > >> shows it is reliable and fast, or if they go bankrupt, then someone will buyrJ > >> vms, and maybe that someone will take vms to the top were it belongs!" > >> are you listening paul allen? > O > To Bob, as Larry Kilgallen requested in this or some other thread, why can't eP > you capitalise?  In 1960's/1970's, Fortran (FORTRAN) only accepted uppercase. R > These days with mixed case it is hard to read some of the older code.  With the J > English language (and other European languages), it is hard to read all M > lowercase.  If you wrote a book, it would be as arduous to read as Anthony m > Burgess' "Clockwork Orange". > 	 > [snips]i >  > Regards, Paddy  F IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT, ITS OK BY ME ... I PREFER CAPS BUT SINCE OTHERF BRAIN DEAD PEOPLE COMPARE IT TO SHOUTING, I WILL TRY TO GO WITH THE PC- CROWD, BUT NEVER WILL I DUMP VMS FOR WINDOZE!t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:31:17 +0000  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!R: Message-ID: <OF02E5B0F6.B7DD56F0-ON00256AFE.004FB839@btyp>   Bob,   Are you on a wind-up?l  % I'm sure you know what Paddy meant...f   Steve SP        < bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) on 11/08/2001 02:09:53 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:,I From:      bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), 8 November 2001, 2:09 p.m.I  2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!    2 <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message1 news:<01KAGZW88YLU000691@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>...  > JF wrote:t >  > >Bob Ceculski wrote:I > >> why would any vms user move to hp, ibm or sun junk?  if merger failse thenJ > >> compaq will be forced to revive alpha vms and maybe ev8 until itanium portH > >> shows it is reliable and fast, or if they go bankrupt, then someone will buyJ > >> vms, and maybe that someone will take vms to the top were it belongs!" > >> are you listening paul allen? >sH > To Bob, as Larry Kilgallen requested in this or some other thread, why can'tsD > you capitalise?  In 1960's/1970's, Fortran (FORTRAN) only accepted
 uppercase.G > These days with mixed case it is hard to read some of the older code.M With theI > English language (and other European languages), it is hard to read allaD > lowercase.  If you wrote a book, it would be as arduous to read as Anthonya > Burgess' "Clockwork Orange". >>	 > [snips]  >n > Regards, Paddy  F IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT, ITS OK BY ME ... I PREFER CAPS BUT SINCE OTHERF BRAIN DEAD PEOPLE COMPARE IT TO SHOUTING, I WILL TRY TO GO WITH THE PC- CROWD, BUT NEVER WILL I DUMP VMS FOR WINDOZE!h          F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasiG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,d$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedeK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.   
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.w  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, D RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:42:53 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!c+ Message-ID: <9se5ld$2fr$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>c  h In article <d7791aa1.0111080609.2e4eeaec@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:e ><paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message news:<01KAGZW88YLU000691@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>...f >> JF wrote: >> h >> >Bob Ceculski wrote:rO >> >> why would any vms user move to hp, ibm or sun junk?  if merger fails thenrP >> >> compaq will be forced to revive alpha vms and maybe ev8 until itanium portR >> >> shows it is reliable and fast, or if they go bankrupt, then someone will buyK >> >> vms, and maybe that someone will take vms to the top were it belongs! # >> >> are you listening paul allen?  >> nP >> To Bob, as Larry Kilgallen requested in this or some other thread, why can't Q >> you capitalise?  In 1960's/1970's, Fortran (FORTRAN) only accepted uppercase. nS >> These days with mixed case it is hard to read some of the older code.  With the rK >> English language (and other European languages), it is hard to read all  N >> lowercase.  If you wrote a book, it would be as arduous to read as Anthony  >> Burgess' "Clockwork Orange".a >> .
 >> [snips] >> e >> Regards, Paddy  > G >IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT, ITS OK BY ME ... I PREFER CAPS BUT SINCE OTHER G >BRAIN DEAD PEOPLE COMPARE IT TO SHOUTING, I WILL TRY TO GO WITH THE PCD. >CROWD, BUT NEVER WILL I DUMP VMS FOR WINDOZE!  ? Please just "talk" normally. Don't SHOUT and don't whisper.  :)   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 14:51:49 -0000n= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> ; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!e6 Message-ID: <20011108145149.29172.qmail@gacracker.org>  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  8 On 8 Nov 2001, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:   <snip>  G >IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT, ITS OK BY ME ... I PREFER CAPS BUT SINCE OTHEReG >BRAIN DEAD PEOPLE COMPARE IT TO SHOUTING, I WILL TRY TO GO WITH THE PCs. >CROWD, BUT NEVER WILL I DUMP VMS FOR WINDOZE!  " All caps *is* defined as shouting.  5 - From RFC 1855 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt)d    <   - Use mixed case.  UPPER CASE LOOKS AS IF YOU'RE SHOUTING.    J All we've seen from you is either all upper, or all lower. This just makesK it look as if you can't use the shift key on your keyboard. Look at the RFC H document, the style it is in is what the Internet Engineering Task ForceI recommends. (The only "PC" about the posting style we'd like you to adoptk( is that it is "Politically Correct". ;-)  H In addition, you could look for a news server to use rather than google.F Google usually lags up to 6 hours behind a conventional newsfeed. ThisI means that you can easily post something that is already under discussione in the newsgroup.E     Doc. - --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net-   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----1 Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBO+m88sriC3SGiziTAQGNngf+Mee95vjxF2WauFtsdmXPSC3SlA2Vl9wN@ +k5GgyMgr8JbzHPtWN9S2mgllPyel09ZfYVZfyumNHYrcLULyVvH9N6AcLlmBRYh@ VKwDajzo12e5VYKi44AZC8PRPifo8VhP5fb3eQjpNVqS2xFSybthytfq7uBOkekX@ nTTzGNM4/DWPx1fUGrtWQnQaVUBhefnkVTG9C++/O76z63Ud9B2jMMBALFhpBwlC@ vtJF9sNFxC/E7gbWCcGPzGnfGEXthg5VZKet15Z7XgPIYJ+P1L6czvfGe6J+mESu8 hcdvVinyQX9QTzx/FuXlihM8UTqqB9zJQxKPkFK4sA3fO7GhSWDDXA== =F6jb  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----i   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 10:35:05 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)2; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!d3 Message-ID: <JdV9cfefXbPo@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  L In article <9se5ld$2fr$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:j > In article <d7791aa1.0111080609.2e4eeaec@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  H >>IF THATS WHAT YOU WANT, ITS OK BY ME ... I PREFER CAPS BUT SINCE OTHERH >>BRAIN DEAD PEOPLE COMPARE IT TO SHOUTING, I WILL TRY TO GO WITH THE PC/ >>CROWD, BUT NEVER WILL I DUMP VMS FOR WINDOZE!n > A > Please just "talk" normally. Don't SHOUT and don't whisper.  :)r  H Bob Ceculski is apparently quite new at this computer keyboard stuff, asG he has not figured out the difference between "shift" and "shift lock".i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:40:51 +1030) From: "The CO" <askme@somewhere.in.oz.au> . Subject: Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.11 Message-ID: <0eqG7.2793$E81.80718@ozemail.com.au>i  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageA- news:Fp_F7.1326$RL6.33964@news.cpqcorp.net... G > In article <O8_F7.21087$hZ.1943070@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,18 "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> writes: <snip>H >   On a system running OpenVMS VAX V6.0, I'd follow the sequence in the= >   OpenVMS FAQ to upgrade to V7.3 -- I'd upgrade to current.-     Can I lawfully do that? K The machine as acquired came with 6.0 installed, and with the tapes for 6.1y# which had not been installed due toR$ a sudden purchase of newer hardware.I We do not have a maintenance agreement, so I feel comfortable updating tor# the 6.1 that came with the machine,?I but later versions no doubt require an incredibly expensive upgrade fee I  was given to understand.  J >   User-mode and kernel-mode code is expected to continue to operate, and	 to easilys >   survive the upgrade.  L I'm also using an old Multinet 3.2 Rev B.  Not upgraded for the same reason,J ($ x lots for this box) and the system does not have licenses for UCX so IF need to be sure that will keep working too.  It bitched about 6.0 whenG reinstalled and I had to use the override=vms_version switch, as it wasr( apparently created during the 5.5x days.  1 >  (The only aspects of V7.3 that I know can be afJ >   problem for a few sites is the contractually-required removal of AdobeH >   Display Postscript support, and the explicit version checks that are+ >   built into recent Oracle Rdb releases.)g  H Don't have Oracle, no idea if we have Adobe Display Postscript but seems9 unlikely since we don't have/use decwindows (no license).0   Thanks for your help though    RegardsL   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 11:30:56 +0100s+ From: Maarten van Tilburg <mtilburg@wxs.nl> . Subject: Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.1& Message-ID: <3BEA5EE0.9836D68A@wxs.nl>  
 The CO wrote:t > A > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messaged/ > news:Fp_F7.1326$RL6.33964@news.cpqcorp.net...SI > > In article <O8_F7.21087$hZ.1943070@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,s: > "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> writes: > <snip>J > >   On a system running OpenVMS VAX V6.0, I'd follow the sequence in the? > >   OpenVMS FAQ to upgrade to V7.3 -- I'd upgrade to current.o >  > Can I lawfully do that?t   Yes, provided that ' $ license list vax-vms /full  H does not state a version number (other than 0.0) or a release date limit   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:13:18 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.13 Message-ID: <yayG7.1408$RL6.37949@news.cpqcorp.net>8  ] In article <0eqG7.2793$E81.80718@ozemail.com.au>, "The CO" <askme@somewhere.in.oz.au> writes:5 :i@ :"Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message. :news:Fp_F7.1326$RL6.33964@news.cpqcorp.net...H :> In article <O8_F7.21087$hZ.1943070@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,9 :"Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> writes:j :<snip>EI :>   On a system running OpenVMS VAX V6.0, I'd follow the sequence in the > :>   OpenVMS FAQ to upgrade to V7.3 -- I'd upgrade to current. :n :h :Can I lawfully do that?  I   Sorry, I'm not a lawyer.  You'll need to check your licensing agreement    and your contract contact.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:16:36 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: How to upgrade VMS/Vax 6.0 to 6.13 Message-ID: <EdyG7.1409$RL6.38063@news.cpqcorp.net>H  T In article <3BEA5EE0.9836D68A@wxs.nl>, Maarten van Tilburg <mtilburg@wxs.nl> writes: :The CO wrote: :> wB :> "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message0 :> news:Fp_F7.1326$RL6.33964@news.cpqcorp.net...J :> > In article <O8_F7.21087$hZ.1943070@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,; :> "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> writes:m	 :> <snip>uK :> >   On a system running OpenVMS VAX V6.0, I'd follow the sequence in the @ :> >   OpenVMS FAQ to upgrade to V7.3 -- I'd upgrade to current. :> d :> Can I lawfully do that? :w :Yes, provided that  :$ license list vax-vms /fulln :OI :does not state a version number (other than 0.0) or a release date limitr    H   Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I know that LMF and license PAKs can and G   will let you do things that you may not be authorized to do -- it is oI   NOT an enforcement tool.  Generally, either a right-to-upgrade license uG   or a software support agreement is a requirement for access to newer dB   OpenVMS versions.  Check your software agreement(s) for details.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:06:21 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>v" Subject: ignore - just a test post> Message-ID: <xQzG7.151949$YL3.45296152@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>   test post....ignore    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:25:53 GMTj= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)g Subject: Re: Infoserver 10000 Message-ID: <00A04BAF.10028BCD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <zSV8TIO4pFAS@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:id >In article <3mfl4+11MMWK@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:] >> In article <3BE952FD.18559.464F51@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:yI >>> I now own an Infoserver 1000.  It boots just fine, loads from flash,   >>> and asks for a password. >>> " >>> How do I "break" the password? >>   >> Did you try "ESS" ? >sA >Somebody went to great trouble to hide their identity in sending A >me email suggesting that people should not post passwords in the  >newsgroup like I just did.h >oF >While password security in general is a good idea, the above passwordE >is published in the Infoserver documentation as the default password:B >with which the box ships from the factory (and to which it can be, >reset with suitable hardware manipulation). >pC >I actually considered augmenting my above post with a warning thatm@ >if your ethernet is accessible by untrustworthy folk you should@ >change it to something besides ESS, but I declined the honor of> >being the most pedantic poster in the newsgroup.  I note that@ >Brian Schenkenberger has also just skipped the contest for that
 >position.  C As you have stated, it is the default password and it is published.r    > >People who don't know enough to ensure such an arrangement is> >secure should suffer a revocation of their license to operate >a BNC connector.f  A I have 6 Infoservers and I can assure you that each one no longere@ has ESS as its password.  I will continue to operate my BNC con- nectors.M ***  MicroVAX-IV (the final MicroVAX) has achieved a 2-year uptime today! ***t --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMf             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:27:15 -0500:0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>% Subject: Re: InfoServer 1000, phase 2e; Message-ID: <081120011327155447%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>r  @ In article <3BE98E60.28540.12E4B36@localhost>, Stanley F. Quayle <stan@stanq.com> wrote:c  R > I replaced the RAM, which passed the memory test, but still get (what's a QAR?): >  > MCheck code 80, VAP 8007F2D4.   + You get a machine check but it still boots?r  E You could file a QAR but since the InfoServer has been discontinued IoB don't think you'd be getting any new versions of code from Compaq.   > InfoServer 1000 V3.3 (BL26)u  G The latest (last) version of software is V3.5a, so you probably want too upgrade.   Paul   -- c  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering7   Compaq Computer Corporatione   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:21:55 +0100$ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch>- Subject: Ionas Orbix and BEAs Weblogic on VMSh Message-ID: <3beaa314$1@hcwe67>f   Hello,  K due to the fact, that new Java Versions are available on VMS, this productsnE should run on VMS partly or complety. Does anybody actually use them?T   regards.   JakobE   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 15:04:28 GMT + From: Dale Dellutri <ddellutr@enteract.com>WE Subject: Is TCP/IP really needed to install WEBES and Compaq Analyze? + Message-ID: <9se6ts$i82$1@bob.news.rcn.net>p  < Is TCP/IP really needed to install WEBES and Compaq Analyze?  B I've got some ES40's, and the techs always ask if I've got Compaq B Analyze installed when they dial in to look at a hardware problem.C I've balked at installing CA (and WEBES) because of all the patches)@ it requires on vms7.2-1, but I recently installed PCSI-V0100 and5 UPDATE-V0300 which includes all the required patches.v  @ However, I note in the WEBES installation guide that it requires' "TCP/IP service installed and running".o  B Why?  I don't intend to use any TCP/IP-style service.  I just wantA the command line form of CA for the techs who dial in.  Is TCP/IPv really needed?   --  & Dale Dellutri -- ddellutr@enteract.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:24:01 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> I Subject: Re: Is TCP/IP really needed to install WEBES and Compaq Analyze?w2 Message-ID: <LkyG7.53775$Z2.820907@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  8 "Dale Dellutri" <ddellutr@enteract.com> wrote in message% news:9se6ts$i82$1@bob.news.rcn.net...w> > Is TCP/IP really needed to install WEBES and Compaq Analyze? >oC > I've got some ES40's, and the techs always ask if I've got CompaqrD > Analyze installed when they dial in to look at a hardware problem.E > I've balked at installing CA (and WEBES) because of all the patchese >...  J You'll be sorry... tell them that if they want to run that garbage to lookI at the error log then they can install it at their site and you will mail K them a copy of the ERRLOG.SYS through DSN or some other means. That is whatGJ Compaq suggested we do if DIAGNOSE can not display the error correctly. SoI far DIAGNOSE has been able to handle every (2) error that we had with the_ ES40._  8 The only thing Compaq got right with CA is the initials.  L That said, when we were unfortunate enough to have that garbage installed onK one of our ES40's (we only put it on the test machine, I would not allow ituL to go on the production machine) we had TCPWare installed not UCX and we hadK no IP related problems. I do not recall seeing anything that looked like itn need an IP stack.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:12:10 +1030p% From: Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au>m: Subject: Looking for NEXUS BSI for MANMAN on OpenVMS Alpha* Message-ID: <3BEA3752.FB1B8F13@vsm.com.au>   Hi,n  L One of my clients has a VAX running MANMAN.  They use a package called NEXUSH BSI to automatically update MANMAN from various interface files.  We areI investigating upgrading their system to an Alpha, but have been unable to I determine if this package is something that was especially written for my J client or if it's commercial software.  And if the latter, does an OpenVMS Alpha version exist?  0 So ... has anyone heard of NEXUS BSI for MANMAN?   Thanks,o  .         Jeremy Begg.  =   +---------------------------------------------------------+o=   |            VSM Software Services Pty. Ltd.              |f=   |                 http://www.vsm.com.au/                  | =   |       "OpenVMS Systems Management & Programming"        |r=   |---------------------------------------------------------| =   | P.O.Box 402, Walkerville, |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au |t=   | South Australia 5081      |   Phone:  +61 8 83592155    |a=   |---------------------------|  Mobile:  0414 422 947      | =   |  A.C.N. 068 409 156       |     FAX:  +61 8 82231777    | =   +---------------------------------------------------------+t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 10:21:25 +0000T% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> > Subject: Re: Looking for NEXUS BSI for MANMAN on OpenVMS Alpha8 Message-ID: <ehmkut01fbv8dd9ts4cks66ocfv13hnp3i@4ax.com>  C On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:12:10 +1030, Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au>h wrote:   >Hi, >CM >One of my clients has a VAX running MANMAN.  They use a package called NEXUSHI >BSI to automatically update MANMAN from various interface files.  We areE  E We are MANMAN users but I've never heard of NEXUS. However try askingEB the questions in one of the MANMAN forums at www.camus.org (the CA? MANMAN and MK usergroup). There are a number of companies which B specialize in MANMAN customization and have a lot of experience inE interfacing MANMAN with other systems including extensive pre-writtenlC libraries for common functions. And have you ruled out MANMAN's owno2 "DATAPORT" functionality for external interfacing?  @ If you could give a few more details of what exactly you need toE update I could be more specific. If the updates are fairly simple you D can even just run MANMAN in a .COM procedure passing the appropriate inputs.A  D Finally you can update the database directly with tools such as DBQ,E DBQSQL, Attunity Connect, UDMS etc but I do not recommend this as youtC bypass the MANMAN logic and really have to know what you are doing.   J >investigating upgrading their system to an Alpha, but have been unable toJ >determine if this package is something that was especially written for myK >client or if it's commercial software.  And if the latter, does an OpenVMS  >Alpha version exist?t  E EIther way it might just run under DECMIGRATE/VEST (The Alpha VMS VAXp3 emulation environment).  Have you looked into this?P >t1 >So ... has anyone heard of NEXUS BSI for MANMAN?  >  >Thanks, >  >        Jeremy Begg >.> >  +---------------------------------------------------------+> >  |            VSM Software Services Pty. Ltd.              |> >  |                 http://www.vsm.com.au/                  |> >  |       "OpenVMS Systems Management & Programming"        |> >  |---------------------------------------------------------|> >  | P.O.Box 402, Walkerville, |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au |> >  | South Australia 5081      |   Phone:  +61 8 83592155    |> >  |---------------------------|  Mobile:  0414 422 947      |> >  |  A.C.N. 068 409 156       |     FAX:  +61 8 82231777    |> >  +---------------------------------------------------------+   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:08:55 +10308% From: Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> 3 Subject: Looking for Target->Batch on OpenVMS Alpha-* Message-ID: <3BEA368F.7F458968@vsm.com.au>   Hi,m  B One of my clients has a VAX running Target->Batch (a package whichN automatically submits batch jobs according to a pre-defined schedule).  We areK investigating upgrading their system to an Alpha, but I have been unable to.% determine the status of this package.0  A Does anyone know if Target->Batch is available for OpenVMS Alpha?)   Thanks,   F         Jeremy Begg   =   +---------------------------------------------------------+L=   |            VSM Software Services Pty. Ltd.              |,=   |                 http://www.vsm.com.au/                  |l=   |       "OpenVMS Systems Management & Programming"        |i=   |---------------------------------------------------------|e=   | P.O.Box 402, Walkerville, |  E-Mail:  jeremy@vsm.com.au |l=   | South Australia 5081      |   Phone:  +61 8 83592155    |0=   |---------------------------|  Mobile:  0414 422 947      |u=   |  A.C.N. 068 409 156       |     FAX:  +61 8 82231777    |7=   +---------------------------------------------------------+l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:11:45 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Lost system passwordA3 Message-ID: <59yG7.1407$RL6.37842@news.cpqcorp.net>:  Q In article <3BE9F7BF.178099D@mail.verizon.net>, vze35kfz@mail.verizon.net writes: 0 :You can do a conversational boot, b <dev> /r5:1 :r4 :That will put you in sysboot. Set UAFALTERNATE 1...  H   This approach is not entirely reliable, and not one I would recommend.F   Please see the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for details.   :Mickey Lane wrote:e :tB :> Picked up a VAXserver 3500 for next to nothing. No docs, notes,C :> postits, etc. It was from a group that has long since dispersed.p :>C :> Years ago, I had a sheet with notes on how to recover a lost VMSoC :> system password. Unfortunately, the sheet is in a file cabinet ah :> couple of states away.g :>1 :> Anyone have the procedure handy to mail to me?r  ;   Please read the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).c    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:55:13 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>! Subject: Re: Lost system passwordl) Message-ID: <3BEAB8F1.FB172C3C@127.0.0.1>i   Hoff Hoffman wrote:s > J >   This approach is not entirely reliable, and not one I would recommend.H >   Please see the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for details.  * Been there! Knobbled by the SYSUAFALT.DAT.  D I've lost the top of this thread, but by "system password" you don'tD mean the password as changed by SET PASSWORD/SYSTEM do you [originalH poster]? In which case, just use AUTHORIZE from a privileged account and( MODIFY/SYSTEM_PASSWORD=your-new-password  # If I'm being irrelevant, ignore me.. -- a( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 17:38:32 GMTw2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Lost system password 3 Message-ID: <sqzG7.1412$RL6.38162@news.cpqcorp.net>'  T In article <3BEAB8F1.FB172C3C@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote: :> -K :>   This approach is not entirely reliable, and not one I would recommend.aI :>   Please see the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for details.  : + :Been there! Knobbled by the SYSUAFALT.DAT.s  B   Being somewhat of a delinquent :-), I have been known to invoke    the following:  +     SET FILE/ENTER=SYSUAFALT.DAT SYSUAF.DATh  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 06:35:13 -0800C( From: mrajana@hotmail.com (Raj Mudumbai). Subject: MQseries Publish/Subscribe on OpenVMS< Message-ID: <dd8b55d.0111080635.37a5d843@posting.google.com>   Hello,  9 Anyone has tried using MQSeries version 5.1 for VMS Alphao; as a Publish/Subscribe client with a Pub/Sub broker runningq8 on another platform (as there is no broker available for VMS)?-  # Thank you for any helpful response.n   R Ma   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 15:04:52 +0100-* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: ok I am back in my office* Message-ID: <3bea9104$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  \ In article <3BE9C251.EC3E36B2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Sue Skonetski wrote:.H >> Take advantage of up to 15% trade-in value for your older AlphaServer >> systems.m > M >Shouldn't there be some VAX to alpha upgrades yet, or did Digital give up onn >those a decade ago ?>  $ Did you miss the entry in the list ?  ? 	http://www.compaq.com/hps/promotions/vax_to_alpha_upgrade.htmle   -- i< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888F< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 01:01:23 -0800a/ From: pdafniotis@my-deja.com (Petros Dafniotis)t6 Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha v7.2-1 to 7.3: upgrade or wait?= Message-ID: <5cf242af.0111080101.42be0fa8@posting.google.com>   E As message says, I have been almost 100% happy with 7.2-1 (minus some D annoyances with the PowerStorm 350 card). Should I upgrade to 7.3 or wait?p   Key concerns/issues: * stabilityaF * DECWindows changes (I read something on display postscript and other changes)' * support for useful Un*x kind softwarei. * debugger (especially for Fortran9X programs)   No concerns at all:- * clustering  3 Many thanks in advance for any hints. Kind regards,- Petros ---e Petros Dafniotis, PhD  pdafniotis@my-deja.com   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 16:15:41 +0100o* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER): Subject: Re: OpenVMS/Alpha v7.2-1 to 7.3: upgrade or wait?* Message-ID: <3beaa19d$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  o In article <5cf242af.0111080101.42be0fa8@posting.google.com>, pdafniotis@my-deja.com (Petros Dafniotis) writes: F >As message says, I have been almost 100% happy with 7.2-1 (minus someE >annoyances with the PowerStorm 350 card). Should I upgrade to 7.3 ora >wait?  0 Better use V7.2-2 (while I continue to run V7.3)   >Key concerns/issues:n >* stability  1 XFC is a gotcha (disable it or system may crash).lF VOLSHAD is probably one, too (WBM/MiniCopy is a goodie, but MinimergesE happen here now at every system boot which did not happen with V7.2 ->K I'd better check the VOLSHAD ECO. NOTE: No data loss, or crashes so far !!)   G >* DECWindows changes (I read something on display postscript and other>	 >changes)y  ; DECwindows-MOTIF V1.2-6 removes DPS, which might annoy you.nE You may run MOTIF V1.2-6 on VMS V7.2 but not MOTIF V1.2-5 on VMS V7.3w  F And as the X11 server is part of VMS, DPS in the X11 server is removed
 with VMS V7.3g  ( >* support for useful Un*x kind software  7 AFAIK, V7.2 (or V7.2-2) with ECOs does it deliver, too.w  / >* debugger (especially for Fortran9X programs)i  9 The V7.3 debugger is said to be installable on V7.2, too.p# Check for ADX/ADB to get more info.y   >No concerns at all:
 >* clusteringo  K I have still problems booting a VAX satellite from an Alpha 7.3 bootserver,hJ which indicates some changes in the MSCP server (I'm however able to mountG MSCP served disks in the startup.com -> only system disk is a problem).p  = AMDS RMDRIVER on VAX 7.3 ACCVIOs (at least on all _my_ VAXes)    -- a< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:28:13 +0000*% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: OT - HP's MPE-IX 8 Message-ID: <ddjkut0h20iavh7ktlf517fk5a6ojp63q1@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 17:21:36 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >lroduner@americhem.com wrote:H >> I believe that Compaq claims that there are 400,000+ VMS systems withE >> 10,000,000 users world-wide (these figures are likely inflated).  : >1D >There are systems that do not exist, because I certainly don't know >anytS  D I visited a UK MOD site which will remain nameless around 1989. TheyA had so many VAXEes that machines were powered up in corridors. AnyC in-house designed  100Mb/sec network connecting many of them was ina: the process of being de-commissioned (covered in a DefenceC Technologies Enterprise publication of the time - so declassified).l8 Goodness knows what they were replacing it with in 1989!  D I have no idea whether that particular site still makes heavy use ofF VMS or whether you might even officially not know about it. If you seeB what I mean :-) I can say that they wrote a version of Wordstar inC Coral and later rewrote in VAX C and it was sold commercially for am time.o  + >Officially inflated, unofficially correct?  >eF >M, now what a tremendous pop outfit they were fronted by Robin Scott,F >couple of great albums, one called "New York, London, Paris, Munich",# >what was the follow-up called now?,   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 11:57:08 +0000o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>1 Subject: OT: "on the back of a corn flake packet"-) Message-ID: <3BEA7314.C5FAA435@127.0.0.1>r  B This amused me, more so because unless I'm very much mistaken, the< company in question uses VMS systems in their manufacturing.  ' http://www.python.demon.co.uk/krash.jpge -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 05:16:27 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l( Subject: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP, Message-ID: <3BEA5B7A.B40F66C4@videotron.ca>   Just a suggestion:  F Currently, one can use transparent DECnet for a program to access dataK residing on another decnet node, with that data being a file or a stream ofeQ data supplied by some server program. To the application this is all transparent.i  M so, a program can open a file such as BIKE"clinton cigar"::"0=TWIST" and thenIT read records as they are being fed by the TWIST.COM residing in Clinton's directory.  L It would be *really neat* if RMS were modified to support sumilar operations with TCPIP connections.u  
 for instance:/J TCPIP::server.whitehouse.gov:23  would establish a tcpip connection to the: named host and port number and one could read/write to it.  M The nice advantage of using RMS is that RMS would have the smarts to assembleIJ records on your behalf (eg: take raw packets and assemble until a new line character is received).s  M Right now, everyone needs to re-invent the wheel, writing his own routines towJ buffer incoming packets and feed newline terminated records to the calling: application. And that sounds like the perfect job for RMS.  ; Another feature that would be nice would be support for FTPn eg:aL FTP"clinton cigar"::ftp.whitehouse.gov/oval_office/documents/missing_w.keys J would automatically open an FTP session that would either get (if open forC read) the file, or write records to a file there if open for write.   J Heck, why not also support HTTP requests and feed the response data to the( application as if it were a local file ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 11:26:10 +0000n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t, Subject: Re: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP8 Message-ID: <3rqkutoolu86vuc7s62lfi16cscmsuj5l0@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 05:16:27 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >a >PM >It would be *really neat* if RMS were modified to support sumilar operations1 >with TCPIP connections.   As I said back in 1995!:   ===Begin included post=====A   Search Result 1 ) From: Alan Greig (agreig@river.tay.ac.uk) @ Subject: Re: UCX Auxs server (inetd) and reading sys$net via DCL3 Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.ucx, comp.os.vmsM4 View: Complete Thread (5 articles) | Original Format Date: 1995/12/15  + In article <4apqnb$eua@post.gsfc.nasa.gov>,e2 koehler@bessta.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bob Koehler) writes:  P > Sorry, but I think this is the standard way a TCP/IP socket operates.  Current- > technology it is not; popular it is though.s  B While I understand there's no concept of records in the actual i/o streamD I just thought that it would be nice if a record mode interface was A provided in much the same way as reading a stream_lf file via RMS " emulates a record-structured file.  > It's not clear to me what you would be doing at DCL level that wouldn'tB require  "line-at-a-time" input so any DCL procedure running under2 UCX's inetd will have to assemble a "line" itself.  @ Although it works it's not actually clear whether performing i/o@ at DCL level is actually supported by UCX as the messages loggedF to OPCOM indicated "detected server exiting before socket" but all i/oB seems to complete and clients of the identd server seem happy with
 the response.-   -- - Alan Greig Tel: (01382) 308802; University of Abertay Dundee       Email: A.Greig@tay.ac.ukj9    ** Never underestimate the power of human stupidity **        >for instance:K >TCPIP::server.whitehouse.gov:23  would establish a tcpip connection to thee; >named host and port number and one could read/write to it.c >nN >The nice advantage of using RMS is that RMS would have the smarts to assembleK >records on your behalf (eg: take raw packets and assemble until a new lines >character is received). >EN >Right now, everyone needs to re-invent the wheel, writing his own routines toK >buffer incoming packets and feed newline terminated records to the calling ; >application. And that sounds like the perfect job for RMS.e > < >Another feature that would be nice would be support for FTP >eg:M >FTP"clinton cigar"::ftp.whitehouse.gov/oval_office/documents/missing_w.keys DK >would automatically open an FTP session that would either get (if open foroD >read) the file, or write records to a file there if open for write. >IK >Heck, why not also support HTTP requests and feed the response data to thee) >application as if it were a local file ?i   -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:33:56 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> * Subject: Re: VMS721_Mount96-v0300 Question2 Message-ID: <2uyG7.53777$Z2.820904@nnrp1.uunet.ca>   >...L > > (Now, back to trying to find out why my ES40 crashes every time I try toI > > start DECPS  (Actually, C.A.'s Adviseit).  It crashes when connectinga SWA0:aI > > Now, I have to figure out how to create a dumpfile on my fibre disk.)w >...  L Do you have PSCD$TIMER_DRIVER defined? If AdviseIt is running on an ES40 andK you define this logical then the ES40 will crash within 2 minutes. CA has a , version you can download that seems to work.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:44:57 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> * Subject: Re: VMS721_Mount96-v0300 Question2 Message-ID: <oEyG7.53780$Z2.820833@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message, news:2uyG7.53777$Z2.820904@nnrp1.uunet.ca... >...J > Do you have PSCD$TIMER_DRIVER defined? If AdviseIt is running on an ES40 andaK > you define this logical then the ES40 will crash within 2 minutes. CA has  ai. > version you can download that seems to work.  F Hate to follow-up on my own post but FYI: we found this bug in 2.3, CAK provided a new image for us that worked OK. This fix should be in V2.4, but % we have not yet tested it on an ES40.8   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 14:01:20 GMTt& From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> Subject: welcome.txt> Message-ID: <QewG7.42800$zK1.10987738@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  I I need to put a long message in welcome.txt and I need it to pause in the F middle (darn security people) to give the user time to read it. (press" return to continue sort of thing).  J Since this is just a text file and not a command procedure (even though it+ get invoked with an @),   how do I do this?    Openvms VAX 7.1- Openvms Alpha 7.2-1-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:23:50 +0100P: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: welcome.txt, Message-ID: <3BEAA386.8050707@volkswagen.de>  G Put a TYPE FILENAME in SYLOGIN.COM and do a READ/TIMEOUT... afterwards,-B and add some checks thatthis is only called in interactive logins.   john nixon wrote:a  K > I need to put a long message in welcome.txt and I need it to pause in the H > middle (darn security people) to give the user time to read it. (press$ > return to continue sort of thing). > L > Since this is just a text file and not a command procedure (even though it- > get invoked with an @),   how do I do this?o >  > Openvms VAX 7.1s > Openvms Alpha 7.2-1j >  >  >  >  >      -- A  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regardsn   Karl RohwedderB iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 BraunschweigA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843iE   E-Mail: rohwedder@decus.decus.de           | iT-IngTeam@t-online.dee,           karl.rohwedder@it-ingenieurteam.de DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:28:47 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: welcome.txt+ Message-ID: <9sebrv$4bo$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  g In article <QewG7.42800$zK1.10987738@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>, "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:eJ >I need to put a long message in welcome.txt and I need it to pause in theG >middle (darn security people) to give the user time to read it. (press # >return to continue sort of thing).k >QK >Since this is just a text file and not a command procedure (even though it-, >get invoked with an @),   how do I do this? >a >Openvms VAX 7.1 >Openvms Alpha 7.2-1 >q >m >     8 Why not simply put the message in a world readable file & (say sys$manager:message.txt) and put   = TYPE/PAGE sys$manager:message.txt  in sys$manager:sylogin.com-  3 and forget about putting it in the welcome message.5    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:45:22 +0000m( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: welcome.txt) Message-ID: <3BEAB6A2.DBCCC2F1@127.0.0.1>O   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:F >   9 > Why not simply put the message in a world readable file ' > (say sys$manager:message.txt) and put" > ? > TYPE/PAGE sys$manager:message.txt  in sys$manager:sylogin.comO > 5 > and forget about putting it in the welcome message.e  H In a former life I used the approach of using the WELCOME.TXT, an optionE on the users menu to redisplay the WELCOME.TXT, *and* used SYLOGIN tos@ force the display, and if necessary, ackowledgement of viewing a message.  B I'll not pass more comment on why we did this, other than "users". -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:41:02 +0200' From: "Gabriel Sterk" <gabi@aipm.co.il>2- Subject: What comes after TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN?>2 Message-ID: <001901c16863$63b8f000$2c46bf10@manai>  
 Hello all,  9 Is there a way to start up the FTP process after shuttingo1 it down with SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN.COM ?y8 Seems to me, that the only way is to run the whole bunch of TCPIP$STARTUP.COM . Thanks for any hint,  
 Gabriel SterkI  A P.s. Disable & enable of the service is not what I'm looking for.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:05:22 +0100e= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>-1 Subject: Re: What comes after TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN?-5 Message-ID: <3BEA9F32.9D473B1F@contrastmediagroep.nl>i   Gabriel Sterk wrote:  ; > Is there a way to start up the FTP process after shutting03 > it down with SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN.COM ?d: > Seems to me, that the only way is to run the whole bunch > of TCPIP$STARTUP.COM . > Thanks for any hint,   Do the following:n   $ tcpip enable service ftp& $ @sys$manager:tcpip$service_setup ftp- $ @sys$manager:tcpip$service_setup ftp_clientq   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:46:36 +0200' From: "Gabriel Sterk" <gabi@aipm.co.il>-1 Subject: What comes after TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN? (2)m2 Message-ID: <001a01c16864$2b96b580$2c46bf10@manai>   -----Original Message-----
 Hello all,  9 Is there a way to start up the FTP process after shutting@1 it down with SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$FTP_SHUTDOWN.COM ?c8 Seems to me, that the only way is to run the whole bunch of TCPIP$STARTUP.COM . Thanks for any hint,  
 Gabriel Sterkm  A P.s. Disable & enable of the service is not what I'm looking for.t   ---------------------------   ! Forgot to indicate s.w. versions:h	 VMS 7.2-1  TCPIP services 5.0A ECO 2p   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:48:00 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w2 Subject: What Compaq & HP should be told about VMS> Message-ID: <ArAG7.151970$YL3.45338401@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  I We, as users of OpenVMS, have to make our voices heard by the only people I who can help us - specifically the Boards of Directors of both Compaq and B HP, and other shareholders who will ultimately vote on the merger.  H The Board(s) have to approve of any measure which can affect revenue and7 major liability issues which could occur as a result of # terminating/de-emphasizing OpenVMS.n  K My company has been a user of VMS for nearly 20 years. We like it, we trusteJ our business with it. We've tried and abandoned unix several times becauseL it simply costs too much in people time to make things work reliably for anyK length of time, and it's people time that is the most costly portion of any 9 on-going operation, not the cost of software or hardware.g  J As far as Alpha is concerned, my personal preference would be to see AlphaK continued as a processor family and not sunsetted. Alpha represents a lowersI risk to my business than trying to survive a port to Itanic architecture,dC even though the ultimate cost of the Intel processor may be cheaper<G (remembering that the cost of the hardware isn't the true cost of doing(
 business).  L As far as the Compaq-HP deal is concerned, I'd rather see it fall apart thanA proceed unless there are ironclad guarantees that OpenVMS will be I continually developed at a pace at least equal to any *nix derivative theKG merged company may offer over the next 20 years. But I guess that's noteB likely to occur (try getting IBM to commit to the same for OS390).  C Capellas, et. al., seem to have forgotten that the way shareholdersh; interests are best served is by serving the customer first.o    I In any event, the best thing that I can do as a paying customer to get myn voice to be heard is to:  K a)  write EACH member of both Boards of Directors personally and state thatnF should OpenVMS be de-emphasized/de-supported, all my company's furtherG computing purchases will definitely not be made from Compaq/HP. We willd+ endure the migration to IBM or Sun instead.x  K b) Buy one share each of Compaq and HP stock in order to be able to standup*K at the shareholder meetings which must take place to ratify the merger, andoF again re-iterate that the merged company will forever lose my business+ should OpenVMS be terminated/de-emphasized.e  I Further to this, it is in our best interests to make major pension funds, L who are the largest owners of stock in both Compaq and HP, aware that we areF prepared to vote with our wallets on this matter. These are not stupidH people - many of the world's stock exchanges still run on OpenVMS, as doJ major portfolio management/accounting systems. The demise of Open VMS willL affect them too, in tangible ways in their day-to-day business. And in theirG fiduciary roles, they have to be made aware of the impact the demise ofpK OpenVMS can have on the operations of the companies they buy securities of.oK Yes, this is a bit of 'social engineering', but the more voices, and votes,OL we have denouncing any attempts to send OpenVMS into the shadows, the better off we will collectively be.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2001 08:57:00 -0800e From: mark.barry@ps.net (Blast)o# Subject: Re: Which Disks are Which?M< Message-ID: <5bea1e19.0111080857.64052be@posting.google.com>   "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> wrote in message news:<2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6981@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>...F > If you use a HSx controller you can give the disk any name you want. > 1 > Here you have an example with a HSD controller.s >  > S> show dev dua65 /fullh > Q > Disk $1$DUA65: (HSD000), device type MSCP served SCSI disk, is online, mounted,tO >     file-oriented device, shareable, served to cluster via MSCP Server, errorr >     logging is enabled.! > Q >     Error count                    0    Operations completed            2565166rQ >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] Q >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WaQ >     Reference count              126    Default buffer size                 512 Q >     Total blocks             8378028    Sectors per track                   113 Q >     Total cylinders             3708    Tracks per cylinder                  20wQ >     Host name               "HSD000"    Host type, avail              HSD5, yes Q >     Alternate host name         "FE"    Alt. type, avail     VAX 4000-705A, yese& >     Allocation class               1 > Q >     Volume label         "CUCVMSV71"    Relative volume number                0uQ >     Cluster size                   9    Transaction count                   269tQ >     Free blocks              3685698    Maximum files allowed            418901cQ >     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                           20Q >     Mount status              System    Cache name         "_$1$DUA65:XQPCACHE"aQ >     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache   368569gQ >     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache 271557 Q >     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache       2164sQ >     Volume owner UIC           [1,1]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD  > P >   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, protected subsystems enabled,? >       file high-water marking, write-through caching enabled.i! >   Volume is also mounted on FE.t >  > D > Here you have an example of show dev d /full with a HSZ controller >  > RN> show dev dkc101 /full. > R > Disk $1$DKC101: (RN), device type DEC HSZ50-AX, is online, file-oriented device,@ >     shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled. > Q >     Error count                    0    Operations completed             330567pQ >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]nQ >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WtQ >     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512lQ >     Total blocks            41890140    Sectors per track                   113 Q >     Total cylinders            18536    Tracks per cylinder                  20g& >     Allocation class               1 > S > Without a HSx controller you have following result and now its easy to see in VMSth > all the info you need. Normally a raid controller changes the values of the SCSI port, target and LUN. >  >  > TH> show dev dkb /full > Q > Disk $1$DKB0: (TH), device type DEC RZ1CB-CA, is online, mounted, file-oriented H >     device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled. > Q >     Error count                    0    Operations completed             4676605Q >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] Q >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WoQ >     Reference count              223    Default buffer size                 512sQ >     Total blocks             8380080    Sectors per track                   113nQ >     Total cylinders             3708    Tracks per cylinder                  20m& >     Allocation class               1 > Q >     Volume label         "CUCVMSV72"    Relative volume number                0hQ >     Cluster size                   9    Transaction count                   367sQ >     Free blocks              5017779    Maximum files allowed            419004iQ >     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                           1tQ >     Mount status              System    Cache name          "_$1$DKB0:XQPCACHE"dQ >     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache   501777tQ >     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache  12699nQ >     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache       2680 Q >     Volume owner UIC        [SYSTEM]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD  > N >   Volume Status:  ODS-2, subject to mount verification, protected subsystemsH >       enabled, file high-water marking, write-through caching enabled. > K > Disk $1$DKB100: (TH), device type RZ29B, is online, file-oriented device,n@ >     shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled. > Q >     Error count                    0    Operations completed                 25sQ >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]sQ >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WtQ >     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512sQ >     Total blocks             8380080    Sectors per track                   113sQ >     Total cylinders             3708    Tracks per cylinder                  20w& >     Allocation class               1 >  > n > Normally if you have DKC123 it tells you that is a disk (D) based on SCSI (K) that is the third adapter (C) g > this on SCSI port 1 (1), target 2 (2) and lun 3 (3). But with a raidcontroller it's free changeable. w > T > I hope I have explained it clearly enough and show with examples the differences.  >  >  >  > > -----Original Message-----@ > > From: vmendham@altavista.com [mailto:vmendham@altavista.com]' > > Sent: dinsdag 6 november 2001 16:37q > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma' > > Subject: Re: Which Disks are Which?c > >  > > / > > mark.barry@ps.net (Blast) wrote in message a > > 	 > > Mark,0 > > = > > I guess you have used sho dev DUA##/full or DKA##/full orj > > $1$DUA###/full etc.0J > > This should show u the kind of disk and then you could try to match onF > > the controller. If it is dka0: that should be scsi device 0? or if > > DKA100: could be SCSI 1??. > > & > > Nodename> sho dev sys4b$dka0:/full > > I > > Disk SYS4B$DKA0:, device type RZ57, is online, mounted, file-oriented. > > device,o, > >     shareable, error logging is enabled. > >  > > J > > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 
 > > Trans Mnt J > >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks
 > > Count Cnt J > > $1$DKA0:        (SYSA)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)J > > $1$DKA200:      (SYSA)  Mounted              0  (remote mount)        
 > >         1nJ > > $1$DKA300:      (SYSA)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)J > > $2$DKA0:        (SYSB)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)J > > $2$DKA200:      (SYSB)  Mounted              0  VAXVMS62             0
 > >   250   1iJ > > $2$DKA300:      (SYSB)  Online               0  (remote shadow member)2 > > $2$DKA700:      (SYSB)  Online wrtlck        0 > > # > > SYSTEMB-> sho DEV $1$dKA0:/FULLa > > ; > > Disk $1$DKA0: (SYSA), device type DEC RZ26N, is online,  > > I > > Also check the sys$startup:startup_vms.com files to see if there is a A > > mount command, which could tell you which disks are doing theo  > > shodowing or mirroring etc.. > > : > > $MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA1: /SHADOW=($1$DKA300,$2$DKA300) USER7 > > $MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA2: /SHADOW=($1$DKA0,$2$DKA0) USER2e > > F > > Does the HSC show any info on the mounted devices? Show disk, show > > tape etc...t > >s   All, i  @ Thanks for all your input. I've managed to get the information I@ wanted using SWCC 2.1, most useful. However, I do have a problemB configuring SWCC to see the bottom 1/2 of one cabinet. I have beenE able to configure it to see all the disks on dkc (this serves all theeD disks in l/hand cab). Also able to configure it to see all the disksD in top 1/2 of right hand cabinet, from dkb. However, if I try to runC the config on either node in the cluster to add in all the disks onsB the dke bus (all disks in bottom of r/hand cabinet) SWCC says that2 "this device is not a member of this cluster"...??   Any clues anyone? @ Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any more pointers.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.622 ************************