1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 12 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 629       Contents:D Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC BusinessD Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC BusinessD Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC Business& Announcing the Fall 2001 VMS SIG Tapes Re: Attaching VT420 terminal Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: DECUS in many names  Re: DECUS in many names D RE: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width Re: files with long lines  Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY 2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!L Insufficient Virtual Memory when Linking a Fortran Program (Alpha VMS 7.1-2)P Re: Insufficient Virtual Memory when Linking a Fortran Program (Alpha VMS 7.1-2) Re: Purveyor and VMS 7.3 Re: Purveyor and VMS 7.3E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org  Re: UNIX-like utilities for VMS & RE: Verify contents of the floppy disk- Re: What Compaq & HP should be told about VMS . Re: What do you think of the HP/Compaq merger?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 01:30:36 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>M Subject: Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC Business < Message-ID: <0DFH7.16650$I6.3810246@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:9sg1en$cgq$2@joe.rice.edu... ? >     http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/061243.htm F >     Analysts suggest HP could benefit by dropping out of PC business > H >    "SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - If Hewlett-Packard Co. wants to clinch aJ >     controversial deal to buy Compaq Computer Corp., analysts say it mayI >     have to jettison the business that the combined companies aspire to # >     dominate: personal computers.   I There might be something to be said for that. Peecees have incredibly low H margins, except for Intel and Microsoft. Makes you wonder why HP and CPQA bother with generic, commodity products that can be produced more  economically by Dell, et al!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 04:30:23 GMT   From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>M Subject: Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC Business + Message-ID: <3BEF5078.8DC7D6F0@prodigy.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > 8 > "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message# > news:9sg1en$cgq$2@joe.rice.edu... A > >     http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/061243.htm H > >     Analysts suggest HP could benefit by dropping out of PC business > > J > >    "SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - If Hewlett-Packard Co. wants to clinch aL > >     controversial deal to buy Compaq Computer Corp., analysts say it mayK > >     have to jettison the business that the combined companies aspire to % > >     dominate: personal computers.  > K > There might be something to be said for that. Peecees have incredibly low J > margins, except for Intel and Microsoft. Makes you wonder why HP and CPQC > bother with generic, commodity products that can be produced more  > economically by Dell, et al!  K If they would actually distinguish their products by, e.g., offering a low  F priced Linux desktop machine based on AMD chips, instead of trying to H compete with virtually identical hardware and software, maybe they'd do  better.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 05:34:33 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC Business B Message-ID: <JbJH7.113583$7x1.9072220@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  + cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message % news:3BEF5078.8DC7D6F0@prodigy.net...    ...   L > If they would actually distinguish their products by, e.g., offering a lowG > priced Linux desktop machine based on AMD chips, instead of trying to I > compete with virtually identical hardware and software, maybe they'd do 	 > better.   @ If Compaq had even the slightest clue about the value of productL differentiation, they'd be far more appreciative of their proprietary assets@ and could actually constitute a threat to IBM (which understandsL differentiation and complementary support across a broad product line *very* well).  L Instead, their 'better ideas' focus on things like the 'Internet key'.  WhenJ a company tries to differentiate its products with pimples like that, theyG have truly become commodities - and since Compaq can't compete on price % while maintaining a profit, it loses.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:16:11 -0500  From: GcE <gce@gce.com> / Subject: Announcing the Fall 2001 VMS SIG Tapes & Message-ID: <3BEECE7B.4030005@gce.com>  N This is to announce that the initial copies of the Fall 2001 VMS sigtapes haveN been sent out. Some additional ones are yet to be sent. Those who need to get S them frim me may email everhart@gce.com. The tree coordinator is still Dar Schumann E (darnkatt@feist.com) and normal distribution is via local user group. $ Thanks again to all who contributed.	 Contents:    Fall 2001 VMS / L&T Sig Tapes  [VMSLT01B...] Directory Tree  H [GCE]                   Latest VDdriver for alpha. Fixes small omission.4                          Also prog. to send packack.L [GNU]                   New Gnu progs including gcc 3.0.2 compiler, gnumeric;                          spreadsheet, Gawk, several others. A [JED]                   Editor that can work like EDT but on many #                          platforms. J [MOREAU]                DECwindows utils. Jasper: Jpeg 2000. Xephem: showsG                          sky at any time. Xanim: animations. MPG123 and %                          XWpick also. G [NET]                   Misc. interesting things from the net including K                          gnupg, Bochs (pc emulator), calc, divx movie play, C                          openssh, vmscd - read VMS CDs on other OS, K                          MySQL DBMS, Wine (pc emul.), xlockmore, much more. = [NT]                    NT internals advice and a few examles I [OPENOFFICE]            Sources to latest OpenOffice build. Not ported to :                          VMS but very useful office suite.G [PERL]                  PERL (string language with loads of features to I                          do what awk, grep, and many other unix tools do) 7                          for many systems including VMS F [SAMBA]                 Program to let non windows systems serve printJ                          and disk shares to each other and windows, and toM                          let them access windows shares. Latest common dist., L                          no special VMS port. (VMS vers. was on 01A sigtape)H [SEC]                   Security advice, many problems and exploit codesF                          (beware on non-VMS systems!) and a few tools.L [TK]                    adv_runusr  run/user command callable-ping  callableF                          PING for VMS dsnlink_new - connect to dsnlinkJ                          files_info - show all processes reading/writing aJ                          given file ftp_mirror - mirror an ftp site jump -M                          become someone else withut disturbing their password L                          mmk- "make" or "mmg" clone for VMS. Builds programsM                          using dependence info to do minimal recompile/relink H                          work ods2 - read ods2 disks on windows. Look onH                          www.adaptec.com site for the .dll needed, whichG                          cannot be distribued here. (It is free.) omi - G                          Oscar's Menu Interface. DCL menu system in DCL I                          persona - asume persona of another user remind - J                          simple reminder utility tail - view end of a fileM                          vmstar - read/write TAR format files/tapes. Supports H                          ods-5.  watcher-compile-fix - fix for compiling(                          WATCHER utilityK [VU]                    Large collection of things that are claimed to work K                          under VMS. Includes: a2h - Ascii to HTML converter H                          analog - catalogs browser types visiting a siteF                          autoswish - automatic index creator for swishJ                          database cdrecord - burn CDs in VMS. CDWrite15 isN                          another prog. to do this.  CETS* - various talks fromN                          CETS made available by their authors DFU - swiss armyM                          knife file utility for VMS Emacs - Gnu Emacs for VMS J                          expat - XML parser that supposedly is easy to getK                          working in VMS Fish - SSH for VMS, one part free - M                          shows free space Frontport - porting library to make L                          porting progs to VMS from Unix easier Ghostscript -I                          Postscript interpreter for VMS grant_revoke_id - H                          grant or revoke identifiers hpscan - control HPI                          scanners HTDIG - index or search a finite set of M                          websites Imagemagick - edit images or transform them M                          IRCD - internet relay chat daemon for VMS LATD - LAT N                          daemon. Not really VMS code but shows the protocol...N                          LDAP - VMS LDAP implementation (lightweight directoryK                          access protocol) Mozilla - Decent if slow browser, N                          free followon to netscape, for Alpha VMS MPack - MIMEL                          mail encoder for VMS MPEG3PLAY - play .MP3 files onK                          VMS MKISOFS - build ISO9660 filesystems on VMS (to K                          burn to CD) NBS - set sys time to NBS atopic clock L                          time NBL - foreign mail transport for VMS Nethack -F                          network war game ocr - an OCR program for VMSK                          (character recognizer) odbc - ODBC-ODBC bridge for L                          VMS ods-2 - Utilities to read VMS ODS-2 disk formatL                          on other OSs.  OPENSSL - SSL for many systems. AlsoM                          lets you create your own certificates etc. or become L                          a certificate authority.  output_logger - Take manyF                          small log files, keep theminstead in a largerI                          combined one as they are written.  pacman - game J                          perf_meter - system performance meter, continuousM                          running graph persona - become someone else python - K                          sort of a compiled perl, Compiled string language. L                          rwmbx - utils to read/write mailbox (handy from cmdI                          line) Ruleworks - AI language for VMS, compiled. L                          Compilers here. A step beyond OPS5.  Swish-e - toolK                          for indexing files (text or html, xml,etc.) SLRN - K                          news reader for net news syslogd - A syslog daemon L                          for VMS. Log your unix errors to a VMS system whereJ                          they won't be easily hacked.  simtools - Tools toE                          simulate pdp8,pdp9, pdp10, pdp11 etc. on VMS K                          socketshr - Decnet socket programming ssh - Secure I                          shell for VMS, other part TCL and TK - scripting G                          language and toolkit, most recent VMS versions L                          available.  TEX97 - Full TeX text processing systemL                          for VMS UE400 - uEmacs microemacs Emacs like editorK                          for VMS. Much smaller than full emacs.  unitools - L                          unix like command line tools for VMS unzip - recentJ                          unzip version Vim - Vi editor replacement for VMSN                          Virtcfb - virtual X color frame buffer. With the alsoI                          present virtual X server these let you collect X L                          events, run virtual screens but is mainly useful asH                          enabling technology for further work (e.g.  VNCN                          server for VMS) vmsbackup - read VMS Backup format onJ                          unix xscreensaver - X screensaver with MANY niftyJ                          video display hacks that can also run separately.N                          XICQ - ICQ for VMS (net chat) XMCD - full featured CDN                          player for VMS zlib - compression library and a great#                          deal more. I [WWW]                   WASD HTTP server for VMS and plugins. A very fast $                          web server.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:13:43 -0800 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>% Subject: Re: Attaching VT420 terminal > Message-ID: <LMCH7.31739$Lg.1778317@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com>  / <b_hterag@pacbell.net.invalid> wrote in message % news:9sh9gk0ieu@enews2.newsguy.com...  > H > The terminal is set to all the factory defaults (8-N-1, 9600, XOFF=64, 7bit) - > yet even though I can get the login banner:  > ; > I'm setting up the terminal on the host with the command: = > $ SET TERM TTA0: /SPEED=9600 /NOEIGHT /DEV=VT400 /PERMANENT  >  > L The /NOEIGHT sets the port for 7 bit word size (i.e. 7-N-1), and has nothingL to do with 7 bit controls.  Your word size is incorrect if the VT is set for2 an 8 bit word.  Try the VT set to 7 bit word size.    Jack Peacock    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Nov 2001 20:06:24 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble% Message-ID: <9smlo0$7il@web.nmti.com>   . In article <3BEC23EA.7E0C1871@baesystems.com>,6 Andrew Swallow  <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote:2 > Mail servers can run for 6 months without anyone5 > needing to give an order; then only to confirm that ) > the time does need adjusting by 1 hour.   E *REAL* mail servers can run without being touched for years, and only H treat DST changes as a flag in the I/O routines when converting internal time to human-readable form.   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:56:26 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble, Message-ID: <3BEF021A.8080800@tsoft-inc.com>   Michael Zarlenga wrote:   D > Ok, we know the consensus at the HP BOD level regarding the mergerC > but  what's the consensus at Compaq's BOD level - that the merger & > being off is good or bad for Compaq? >  > Does anyone know?  >  >   G Well, it'll really be 'spin city' should such happen.  It would depend  F upon how well the idiots can hide the damage they've done.  Gave away H the EV8 engineers, and stopped work on industry leading technology.  Is E that good or bad?  Depends upon who you ask.  Ask Winkler.  With the  A sudden downturn in business this last quarter there will be some  ? questions.  Can they blame it on the economy?  September 11th? uF Whatever?  Or, will the disaster of breaking the Alpha commitments be F uncovered, and the stockholders see that some significant part of the G lost business was just Compaq pissing off some of their best customers?y  F I'd fear that the idiots will climb out of the cess pit smelling like ) roses, if they can spin things their way.g   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 02:35:24 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>  Subject: Re: DECUS in many names< Message-ID: <MzGH7.16711$I6.3866043@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  E > Well, it's also trying very hard to follow the DODO bird.  Just in:u >c? > Looking ahead, the Board of Directors has made some strategic-> > membership decisions for the coming year.  As an independentG > association, the viability of Encompass lies directly in the hands of D > our members.  Thus, we're asking you to support our new membershipI > categories and their associated costs (all listed in US dollars), whicheI > will be effective for all new and renewing members beginning January 1,pF > 2002 with full implementation by December 31, 2002. Corporate memberE > categories were created to increase the participation of recognizedp > corporate entities.o >h > *Individual Members- $90' > *International Individual Member-$135 6 > *Corporate Member (Five individuals included) - $400D > *International Corporate Member (Five individuals included) - $600H > *Associate- No cost (Associates will receive this newsletter and otherH > e-mail communication, but miss out on valuable member benefits and are* > not eligible for member-only activities) >  >nH > Real strategic!  Watch the membership drop with this one.  So much forJ > the free hobbyist license.  While you're kilking Alpha and VMS, might as% > well take out the users group also..  I FYI the OpenVMS Hobbyist License is administered by the good folks at thesK Dallas Fort Worth Computer Users Group. Has been right from the get-go. TheyG DFWCUG is kind enough to collaborate with Encompass US on this program.i  G The fact remains that there is no such thing as a free lunch. There are G costs associated with maintaining this program. Ditto for all Encompass K programs. And guess what, Compaq no longer regards Encompass as an entitled " beneficiary of corporate largesse.   >mE > I'd consider dues for a VMS organization.  (Guess I'm still an easyhG > mark.)  But $90 out of my pocket to rub sholders with windoz and ipaq 
 > users?  HA!   L Well, I'm not interested in popping $90 bucks to fraternize with Windoze andJ iPAQ users (well, there are more than a few iPAQ users among the EncompassJ constituency, and the same can be said for Windoze users). As an incumbentI Encompass BoD member I find it difficult to ask folks to pay $90 per year . for our current limited portfolio of services.  I FYI the Encompass US Chapter BoD held a Directors meeting in MSP over theDK past two days. Key issues included budget development and the crafting of ayI membership plan. Be assured that these are two of the issues that keep meiL and my fellow Directors up at night (and did I mention the implementation ofD a viable bidirectional communications mechanism and an effective and affordable advocacy mechanism?)   G Any and all constructive suggestions on what Encompass can do to better J engage the VMS community--and to engage other constituencies as well (like; it or not, Windoze is a reality) would be most appreciated.    cheers,e   terry scB who still misses being on the old DECUS VMS SIG Steering Committee   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:53:48 -0500y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>,  Subject: Re: DECUS in many names, Message-ID: <3BEF47C0.46A058D7@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:iC > And guess what, Compaq no longer regards Encompass as an entitledp$ > beneficiary of corporate largesse.  N > Well, I'm not interested in popping $90 bucks to fraternize with Windoze and
 > iPAQ users    L A few months ago, I had suggested to VMS MANAGEMENT that a VMS specific userL group be formed and be of a global nature to reach people worldwide and alsoI suplement the worlk of DFWLUG by making the hobbysist programme available2K worldwide. Such a group would initially have been electronic only in nature M with on-line registrations, and in exchange for VMS Managemet's support, theysL would have access to our membership list, thus relieveing Sue's tedious workE of maintaining her list of customers interested in VMS. The offer wasiI initially dismissed (not even responded to) and eventually rejected. (eg:a nevert seriously considered).   1 Note that there is precedent with www.tru64.org .m  N Compaq is not interested in VMS. But VMS management are. And if there is to beN any group which can fill the gap left void by the demise of DECUS, it is a VMSL specific group that makes no pretense about its narrow focus and doesn't tryN to be all to all.  And such a group would be far more valuable to Compaq if itL dealt directly and solely with VMS management as opposed to being mired with+ higher management who don't care about VMS.n  K It is VMS management that need to be in touch with VMS customers. If a user,K group deals with high management, that user group will not be in touch withh  the people who matter at Compaq.  J During my short stint inside the board of Decus Canada, I saw the chairmanI work hard to remove one dec-rep and try to get one that had access to therL president, thinking that it was more important to convince the top cheese inL Canada of our value for continued funding. He managed to save an old DigitalI employee's employment and got the president to create a job just for him.u Looks good on paper.  E HOWEVER: the former dec-rep was young, energetic, very techy, lots of N connections to engineers, access to technical presentations, software etc etc.K He was also very computer savy and knew the challenges of having to rebuildl8 DECUS' own IT systems (membership system for one thing).  K I could go on about the "new" dec-rep. He was actually as legacy as one can N get, dating back from the glory days where DECUS was mostly just symposia thatG took a full year to organise. The thinking was that DECUS Canada needed N someone with DECUS experience to rebuild it. Out went the new guy, and in withI the old. Guess what, first action was to promise the president that DECUS H Canada would hold a symposium with 1000 attendees. At a time where DECUSM needed to move into the 21st century, the guy with all the previous exprienceoM was the wrong one. We needed someone with "e-business" skills and conections,m? not someone who was good at organising symposia and demo areas.   M What is the purpose of a user group ?  Is it to allow the user group board totL mingle with the top cheese , or is it to put members in touch with the folks) in the company that matter to the users ?o  M One purpose stated by the chair was that to keep decus canada going, they hadoH to secure a commitment from the compaq canada president, and to do so weM needed someone who reported directly to him. He was succesfull in saving that S old-rep's employment within Compaq and he got a token job in charge of user groups.   K But in the end, the user group got a dec-rep that may have mingled with the N top cheese, but he did nothing to provide value to the members. He didn't haveG the skills to work to build the IT systems to bring DECUS into the 21st(M century. He didn't have access to the nitty gritty information because he wasr too high, too far removed.    K A user group must prove itself by its actions, not by mingling with the topnL cheeses and promising the world. And to get concrete results, the user groupL must have its contacts at the levels that produce value to members, and at aL level when members produce value to Compaq. And that level at at the productG management level, not some higher up disconnected administartive level.r      N There should be separate usergroups for each of the main compaq product lines.M This does not mean that some coordination cannot happen between those groups. M But this would happen naturally by members wanting more info, and perhaps the + user groups sharing some IT infrastructure.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:17:11 -0700 * From: "Welsh, John" <John.Welsh@Avnet.com>M Subject: RE: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width G Message-ID: <FD833ACB0214D511B9B20004ACC5766B0186CF97@asia01.avnet.com>a   Simon,5 		You can edit lines up to the max line length of 255 
 characters; 	which exceed the terminal width ( 80 or 132 ) by doing the 
 following:  C 	At the edit asterisk prompt ( * )  type SET NOTRUNC then type C tor 	enter edit mode.      John Welsh.  Integration Manager. AVNET Computer Marketing.o Enterprise Solutions Division. Unit A,  22-24 College St. Gladesville.     NSW.   2111.    Phone:   02 8877 0752h Fax:	 02 8877 0720 mailto:john.welsh@avnet.com      	-----Original Message-----b 	From:	Simon Clubley8 [SMTP:simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP]% 	Sent:	Tuesday, 6 November 2001 12:29  	To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com; 	Subject:	Editing DCL command lines longer than the current  terminal width  C 	Are there any plans to fix the inability to fully edit DCL commandp linesL) 	longer than the current terminal width ?   C 	Having just spent a good chunk of the weekend editing long command  lines D 	(as part of some application testing), it is my opinion [currently, Not B 	So Humble :-)] that the inability to fully edit DCL command lines longer5 	than the current terminal width is now unacceptable.    	What do other people think ?   D 	I am aware from previous discussions that there is a problem within the E 	terminal driver, but I find it hard to believe that it can be _that_  	difficult to fix.  D 	I am also aware (on terminal emulators with the ability to set longB 	widths) that you can play tricks with set term/width, but playing tricks? 	in order to accomplish tasks is what we accuse other operating  systems ) 	of doing. In VMS, this should just work.t   	Simon.c  D 	PS: Just had an idea: Does the VMS port of bash (for people without UnixD 	experience, it's a Unix CLI) allow you to edit command lines longer thanE 	the current terminal width, and if so, can you get it to execute DCLy 	commands ?n   	-- A 	Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPt? 	In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I haveS discovered aB 	truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:31:49 -0500S- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r" Subject: Re: files with long lines, Message-ID: <3BEF2682.DE68667B@videotron.ca>  $ > H Behling <hbehling@wxs.nl> wrote: > : A programming problem,R > : How can I read in Pascal a very long line (without CR/LF) from an ascii file ?  I You could use RMS calls with SYS$GET and then deal with long strings withoI dynamically allocated memory and string descriptors. You can then use VMS \ system and library services to do stuff with the strings, bypassing the Pascal restrictions.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:39:28 +0100 (CET)n: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>  Subject: Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPYJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0111112333480.28665-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  ( On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Dave Parsons wrote: [...]b+ >+> ftp://ftp.madgoat.com/madgoat/mgpcx.zipl >+@ >+Does this restore the VMS long file name on the NT machine and3 >+does it work NT to VMS also with long file names?o    Unfortunatelly no. 3  But you can move the long names using simple trick 2 with ZIP: pack the file(s) on VMS side to ZIP file0 and unpack on Windows. When you pack without VMS4 attributes (/NOVMS or "-V" regarding of CLI version)' then the version number will disappear.e)  What, you have VAR/VFC "text" files ? ;) 4  Then really - simple .COM with loop and CONVERT) on1 VMS side (IMHO better because the file attributesc3 can be checked before CONVERT) or converter on DOS   side is required :)S    Regards - Gotfryd   -- iE =====================================================================vF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:02:51 GMT " From: Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!f9 Message-ID: <LPAH7.567$Kv4.411992@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net>f  
 cjt wrote:   > Art Rice wrote:  >>   >> David Froble wrote: >> s >> > John Eisenschmidt wrote:  >> > >> >> What's so unintuitive? >> >>l >> >> cd - change directory  >> >> cp - copy  >> >> ln - linkn >> >> ls - listf >> >> man - manual >> >> ps - process list  >> >> rm - removev >> >>pI >> >> While the command names in VMS are pretty intuitive (except for SETXD >> >> DEFAULT), the ones in Unix aren't that far off. There are also2 >> >> purposly terse since they're so often typed. >> >> F >> >> But it's nice to know there are still open minded people who are >> >> accepting of change. >> >J >> > There is no consistancy.  'cd' is the first letter in each word. 'cp'L >> > has no logic at all, just random letters from the word.  Same with 'ln'G >> > and 'ls'.  Wait, I get it, use the first and third letter from the,K >> > command.  Whoops, 'man' upset that rule.  Care to tell me which 's' injK >> > process list is used in the 'ps'?  Ah, 'rm' is back to first and thirdn >> > characters. >> >G >> > If you were to have the following, and allow abrivations of enoughnE >> > characters to be unique, then you would have intuitive commands.8 >> > >> > change_directory 	 >> > copyt	 >> > link  >> > list_filesn >> > manual' >> > process_listr >> > removeh >> >( >> > Opps, then it wouldn't be so geeky. >> >	 >> > DaveD >> >D >> You have disovered the key.  Commands written by geeks FOR geeks.) >> Intuative and Unix are not compatable.7 >> c >> --. >> Art Ricei >> Tandem Adminf >> Special Data Processing Corp. >> ----------------------------z- >> All opinions are my own and do not reflect-- >> the views of the above mentioned employer.  > B > It's easy enough to set up an alias for each one you don't like. >   . I knew that.  I just like ragging on Unix. :>)   -- C Art Rice, Tandem Admin Special Data Processing Corp ----------------------------L All opinions are my own and do not reflect the views of the above mentioned 	 employer.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:50:02 +0100m2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender); Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!h; Message-ID: <3beec85a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   # Art Rice (arice@myhouse.org) wrote:l > David Froble wrote:r' > > Opps, then it wouldn't be so geeky.a >hC > You have disovered the key.  Commands written by geeks FOR geeks.o( > Intuative and Unix are not compatable.   Or, to put it another way:G Unix *is* user friendly. It's just selective about who its friends are.@   cu,n   Martin -- :D                        |  Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1   OpenVMS: When you    |  work: mv@pdv-systeme.deoE   KNOW where you want  |     http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 8   to go today.         |  home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 02:28:49 GMT , From: "Jay E. Morris" <morrisj@epsilon3.com>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! 8 Message-ID: <BtGH7.4617$m_.234444@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  = In message <d7791aa1.0111092135.7e7f89c5@posting.google.com>,r) bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:e5 > Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote in messageu) news:<VA.000004b2.44b8ba60@bluewin.ch>... N > > In article <d7791aa1.0111090837.4c25c47e@posting.google.com>, Bob Ceculski wrote:> > > > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message/ news:<JdV9cfefXbPo@eisner.encompasserve.org>...sL > > > > In article <9se5ld$2fr$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:dG > > > > > In article <d7791aa1.0111080609.2e4eeaec@posting.google.com>,i* bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > >   @ > > We are simply asking you use capitals in their proper place. > > Just like this.- > > K > > In the same fashion as the OpenVMS manuals and online HELP are written.  > > : > > Learn to use the shift key as it was intended. Please. > > 2 > > And while I'm on the subject of your postings: > > F > > a) Please don't quote entire articles from online magazines at us.D > > The URL and subject are normally sufficient. The Google time lagC > > Doc mentioned means those of us interested have likely read thec > > articles already.B > > G > > b) If you find a product you feel we would appreciate you only neednI > > to mention it once; not repeatedly. We also need hard facts, not justd% > > a "Bob says it's great" to go on.. > >  > > ___s > > Paul Sture > > Switzerlandr > G > with 39 alpha servers and stations to support, i rarely have time to cF > make things nice and pretty, but i seriously am wondering if you can> Is that all?  God lord, you must spend half your day napping!!  G > read and comprehend after stating i shove a reco down your throat ...rF > i always give a url for you to research the product and make up yourA > own mind ... you must not be reading my posts, that's for sure!iF > and as far as posting articles, do you see a url link to informationE > week on the post above?  a few times i have pasted a short article,tG > but many others do the same on this board ... what's with everyone oneG > this board?  must be some on this board are going thru change of life  > or something!gM No, but this style normally shows up in newsgroups whose subjects are "DudZe,  n33d c00L WaR8z!"'  @ BTW, it's not VMS users who use all caps, it's COBOL developers. -- .4 Jay E. Morris Epsilon 3 Productions www.epsilon3.com@ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2001 18:54:37 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!r= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111111854.58f3de86@posting.google.com>n  ^ "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl> wrote in message news:<9sirgi$qiq$1@news1.xs4all.nl>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageh9 > news:d7791aa1.0111092135.7e7f89c5@posting.google.com...i > H > > with 39 alpha servers and stations to support, i rarely have time toH > > make things nice and pretty, but i seriously am wondering if you canI > > read and comprehend after stating i shove a reco down your throat ...f > 
 > [ . . .] > N > 39 Systems and you don't have time to make things nice and pretty? You can't > be running OpenVMS!r > H > The site where I am currently working we are managing over 900 OpenVMSN > systems with 3 or 4 people. And we make time to look things nice and pretty! >  > Bart Zorn   G I am talking about typing ... the only typing i do (x"i"x) I do all daysG in in dcl and dibol and tcpware and decnet and dqs and purveyor & rms &eF raxmaster suite and vms mail and all the other vms products is in caps because   C 1. vms or none of the products that I run on vms are case sensitiveg)    (urls in purveyor are all lower case)  F 2. I like keying in caps ever since my start in mcba rsts/e dibol days  E I rarely use word11 and when i do for documentation it is in caps ande# the same for 20/20 spreadsheets ...i  F and I guarantee my caps look just as pretty to vms as does your pretty: typing does ... I am a paid systems analyst, not a typist!   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2001 19:00:51 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!n= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111111900.22b440cf@posting.google.com>r  d Art Rice <arice@myhouse.org> wrote in message news:<jueH7.1037$IQ1.226494@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>... > Bart Zorn wrote: > 9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagei; > > news:d7791aa1.0111092135.7e7f89c5@posting.google.com...o > > I > >> with 39 alpha servers and stations to support, i rarely have time togI > >> make things nice and pretty, but i seriously am wondering if you cannJ > >> read and comprehend after stating i shove a reco down your throat ... > >  > > [ . . .] > > J > > 39 Systems and you don't have time to make things nice and pretty? You > > can't be running OpenVMS!o > > J > > The site where I am currently working we are managing over 900 OpenVMSH > > systems with 3 or 4 people. And we make time to look things nice and > > pretty!p > > 
 > > Bart Zorn6 > >  > >  > > J > Does that mean that you haven't decided if the 4th is human or not?  :>)  J no, that is because you can't count Bart as a supportant when he is typing6 with pretty letters locked in his office for hours ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:55:37 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!r, Message-ID: <3BEF482D.37761A0C@videotron.ca>   "Jay E. Morris" wrote:B > BTW, it's not VMS users who use all caps, it's COBOL developers.  B Cobol on VMS supports lowercase (or at least it did back in 1987).   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2001 12:32:37 -0800$ From: mjk@uiuc.edu (Mark J. Kushner)U Subject: Insufficient Virtual Memory when Linking a Fortran Program (Alpha VMS 7.1-2) = Message-ID: <12abcd7c.0111111232.7475d7f2@posting.google.com>a  ; I am trying to link a large fortran program and receive theD following error message.  A %LINK-E-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memory for 2251859. pageso#         for cluster DEFAULT_CLUSTERe  > My system is an Alpha, VMS 7.1-2 with 2 GB of physical memory.@ The parameters for the interactive process and system parameters are as follows:e     WSquo:       100000e WSextent:   4000000u Pgflquo:   10000000y  J WSMAX                     3000000       4096      1024    8388608 PageletsG NPAGEDYN                  4284416    1048576    163840         -1 BytesrG NPAGEVIR                 18358272    8388608    163840         -1 Bytesa   Modparams.dat parameters are:    MIN_WSMAX=3000000n MIN_VIRTUALPAGECNT = 3000000   Page and swap files are:  L Paging File Usage (blocks):                     Free  Reservable       Total*   DISK$UIGELA_47245:[SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYS;1L                                               149888      149888      149888*   DISK$UIGELA_47245:[SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYS;1L                                              9999872     9886928     9999872  " Does anybody have any suggestions?  4                                         Mark Kushner    K ***************************************************************************e  Mark J. Kushner4  University of Illinois         Phone:  217-244-51374  Department of Electrical       FAX:    217-244-70974   and Computer Engineering      e-mail: mjk@uiuc.eduK  1406 W. Green St.              e-mail attachments: mjk@uigelz.ece.uiuc.edudB  Urbana, IL 61801 USA           URL:    http://uigelz.ece.uiuc.eduK ***************************************************************************u   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:20:07 -0600mC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>tY Subject: Re: Insufficient Virtual Memory when Linking a Fortran Program (Alpha VMS 7.1-2)tI Message-ID: <craig.berry-993F9B.15200711112001@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>c  = In article <12abcd7c.0111111232.7475d7f2@posting.google.com>,r&  mjk@uiuc.edu (Mark J. Kushner) wrote:  = > I am trying to link a large fortran program and receive thec > following error message. > C > %LINK-E-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memory for 2251859. pages % >         for cluster DEFAULT_CLUSTERt  F Find out whether those are pages or pagelets (I don't know offhand).  H If those are 8K pages, then you need about 36 million pagelets, so both G your pagefile and your pgflquo at 10 million are less than a third the nD size they'd need to be.  You might try "help/message insvirmem" and @ follow the suggestions to see if the memory requirements can be  reduced.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2001 18:14:38 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)! Subject: Re: Purveyor and VMS 7.3s= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111111814.1250709d@posting.google.com>n  f "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> wrote in message news:<C8dH7.2677$T6.114932@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>...J > Since Idon't have an extra Purveyor license to use to test it on my testK > 7.3 systems, I'll have to take the word of others who've gone that route.A- >  So...does Purveyor have any issues on 7.3?U > 	 > Thanks,t	 > 	.../Ede  C vms 7.3 seems to have issues on its own ... we are running purveyore> on 7.1-2 and it runs terrific ... i would wait on 7.3 until it becomes more stable ...    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2001 18:26:46 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)! Subject: Re: Purveyor and VMS 7.3:= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111111826.63fd6376@posting.google.com>d  \ "Jakob Erber" <erber@tiscalinet.ch> wrote in message news:<3beda07b$1_1@news.datacomm.ch>... > May I ask a question:m > what product is purveyor?p > 	 > regards  >  > Jakobf >   G purveyor is a terrific webserver for vms ... it's workers are processedHH based and performance tests we ran showed purveyor running under tcpwareE ip stack outperforms all other web servers for vms ... true it is 1.0 D based but it still has wonderful capabilities ... cgi scripts can beA dcl or the variables parsed into symbols in dcl and passed to any D language (we use synergy dibol) which is most efficent as dcl is notD compiled (although dcl compilers are available) ... also their proxyH server is great (alta vista used to use it) and their dll implementationG is actually from were IIS dlls evolved ... combine it with the vms javaaB virtual machine and you can do anything ... also has a html based C configuration menu that is terrific (unlike editing conf files) ... C we have had not one problem w/purveyor since we started using it in B production in the spring ... runs nonstop just like vms!  for more" info call or visit www.process.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:38:11 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)dN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org1 Message-ID: <3bef0aea.248621538@news.wcc.govt.nz>t   I can't get to www.tru64.orgB Anyone else got a problem. For some reason I get some options from auto.search.msn.com-  1 On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 04:48:03 GMT, Terry C Shannon0 <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:   >iJ >I just put together a special issue of Shannon Knows Compaq that contains> >three articles on Compaq's IPF Consolidation. Included in theE >free-for-the-downloading PDF are a discussion of why Compaq opted towI >scuttle Alpha, an explanation of why things were done as they were (e.g.aJ >why publish an Alpha obituary three or four years before the architecture> >shuffles off its mortal coils), and what's behind the current% >unavailability of IPF-based systems.n >hH >While you're at www.tru64.org, be sure to take a look at the results ofC >the SKC/Tru64.org IPF Consolidation survey, and participate in thet( >brand-new survey Ken and I just posted. >  >Enjoy,  >s >terry shannon >.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:13:11 GMT,& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <ruEH7.5156$o16.275720@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  K Bill you have become a broken record adding nothing new and trying to shoutu# down anyone who disagrees with you.e  I More importantly by your own admission you have no current investments intJ this technology and your only interest seems to be that of a disillusioned4 former Digital employee with a chip on his shoulder.  J Why do you keep it up since you are not a current user of this technology?G Do you think people are weak minded fools who must be protected by your)C brilliant comments which are the same over and over and over again?     5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message== news:JDvH7.138368$tb2.11256158@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com..." >T: > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message@ > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111102342060.15684-100000@world.std.com... > >=D > > I just put together a special issue of Shannon Knows Compaq that containsA > > three articles on Compaq's IPF Consolidation. Included in theuH > > free-for-the-downloading PDF are a discussion of why Compaq opted toL > > scuttle Alpha, an explanation of why things were done as they were (e.g.@ > > why publish an Alpha obituary three or four years before the architectureA > > shuffles off its mortal coils), and what's behind the current>( > > unavailability of IPF-based systems. >lJ > Despite your introductory statement that "finally details are emerging",F > this is largely a re-hash of the bullshit that Compaq (and you) wereH > spreading so liberally just after June 25th.  Why you expect anyone to find7 > it any more believable this time around is not clear.  >>F > If "Compaq - and Digital before it - invested heavily in a series ofI > misguided marketing campaigns", they must have been so 'misguided' thatr thetG > results appeared only in places like the Australian outback.  Can youm pointrI > to any external evidence of such 'heavy' expenditures?  We do know that  therI > marketing budget for VMS in Y2K was about $13 million (which presumablywK > includes salaries, though it's not clear who would have merited them), sosL > the 'heavy' funding sure wasn't spent there.  In the same year Compaq as aF > whole spent $385 million on *advertising* (not including things likeI > salaries and promotions that the term 'marketing budget' encompasses) -  andlI > while Alpha and Tru64 probably received a bit more of that than VMS did>J > (though I've always suspected that some of the VMS funding, chicken feedJ > though it was, got siphoned off into more generic Alpha promotion, since youiK > can buy an awful lot more blinking balls for a few mill than seem to haveiL > gotten handed out) without actual numbers and expense sheets (or copies ofK > the ads that appeared with indications of where and how often) I'm afraid K > I'll just have to file this 'explanation' in the same wastebasket of crap  so/ > many of Compaq's other pronouncements occupy.C >rF > Of course, it *is* possible to squander significant amounts of money without K > visible effect if you're sufficiently incompetent.  That's one reason why K > the magnum opus our group sent to Curly contained specific suggestions in0H > this area, but we sure as hell know that *those* never got implemented (theG > VMS Web pages did improve, but that was  a) already under way and  b)9 hardlyH > a significant expenditure).  But Compaq has demonstrated at least some leveloC > of competence in advertising over the years, which makes it a bitr	 difficult D > to believe that their Alpha promotional efforts would have been so	 invisible  > had they really been trying. >*D > Not to mention the fact that Alpha remained the corporation's mostL > profitable franchise.  So if the ad campaigns actually existed and weren'tI > effective, then, by George, a company interested in profitability woulde haveI > tried something else - possibly figuring out that the existing customer  baseJ > which was happy to support the products even in the absence of effectiveE > advertising might have a useful suggestion or two.  The explanationo offeredcI > to you is pathetic, and your unquestioning acceptance of it equally so.4 >$K > It is interesting that you say the Alpha 'soul searching' began about twopJ > years ago, since that's about the time of the Pfeiffer/Curly transition.H > Which makes one suspect that the decision may have had a hell of a lot moreF > to do with corporate politics than with anything substantive, but of course: > one can't know unless some inside mole chooses to speak. > J > Then you have the gall to reiterate that "escalating costs and dwindlingI > performance differentation rendered the Alpha business unsustainable ins the L > long term".  This is just as much crap as it was when you tried to palm itK > off in July:  do you really think people have forgotten why by now, or ite isF > just the 'big lie' philosophy at work in the hope that the truth has gotten > a bit tired? >nI > Here's a hint:  if costs were indeed escalating, quantify that.  By all B > accounts I've heard from the engineers EV8 was on track for both performance:F > and delivery date, and over the years Alpha development has remainedH > admirable stable in both progress and costs (save when it's been beingK > fucked over by upper management) - and has *easily* been justified by the K > profits Alpha systems have generated.  I won't repeat my entire July 19theH > rebuttal from comp.arch et al. here, but it remains as valid as it did0 > then - and your contentions remain as vacuous. >oK > And given that Compaq's 'misguided advertising' experience had supposedlyhG > already suggested that it wasn't *just* performance that sold Alphas,  that'sE > a pretty definite indication that some temporary - or even possiblydI > permanent - erosion in this area would hardly be fatal.  Not that Alphat was I > in any danger from IA64 in that area:  POWER4 was and still is the onlycK > credible 64-bit competitor (though Hammer could possibly become one), andtH > its choice of CMP over SMT could well have left EV8 with advantages in both> > chip area and power consumption if not absolute performance. >aL > Moving right along, we get into some really mealy-mouth wording in the EV8J > section.  First, you say Compaq concluded that "Alpha would maintain itsJ > performance superiority through the EV7 processor generation", then that thewL > "EV8 chip was expected to outperform all rivals".  Gee, I guess that meansI > that Alpha was expected to maintain its performance superiority throughi EV8,2 > not just EV7 - i.e., for the foreseeable future. >rL > Then we have "The EV8 program required significant incremental developmentB > resources, and its success was predicated on timely and flawless
 delivery".K > This in the face of an IA64 product that required *humongous* incrementaloL > development resources, was 4 years late (5 years if you don't count MercedJ > because it's a joke that no one is using commercially), and nothing like theqK > processing powerhouse it was promoted as:  if Intel can justify continuedgI > IA64 development, then there's no way in hell that Compaq can't justifyh( > developing as good a product as Alpha. >rH > I really hope that one of the former Alpha engineers will address yourH > 'anecdotal evidence' that SMT would have cost a full GHz:  I certainly neverrJ > heard mention of any problem of that sort and I certainly wouldn't trust? > your Compaq sources to know, let alone be truthful, about it.  >hJ > And your artful juxtaposition in the phrase "EV8 was projected to have a@ > marginal advantage over then-current IBM and Intel processors" convenientlyG > obscures the fact that the *only* Intel processors able to make AlphaI break E > a sweat are, and would have continued to be, 32-bit processors, not  Itanic:aC > EV6 makes Merced a joke (have you forgotten the 'smoking brick of 	 death'?), K > EV7 will make McKinley a joke (any lessening of the difference in SPECintsJ > numbers will be more than erased in real-world commercial performance byF > EV7's on-chip memory and MP support), and Intel hasn't even unveiled *plans*tI > for a processor beyond the McKinley/Madison/Deerfield core (so we can'tnC > specify what EV8 would have made a joke of, though the Alpha teame
 transplantB > eventually may help at least reduce the volume of the laughter). > F > By contrast, the 'Chips are Down' section actually raises some valid points,jI > but then proceeds to completely misinterpret their significance.  It is1I > indeed the case that "modern servers are increasingly differentiated by>L > metrics such as latency, bandwidth, RAS features, NUMA implementation, andL > system balance" - but EV7, due to its on-chip glue, has *vast* superiorityF > in latency, bandwidth, NUMA performance, and system balance over any ItanicB > yet talked about by Intel, which translates to at least a 3-year
 head-startI > in those areas over any IA64-based server.  And had you included 'power K > consumption' in the list as you should have, Alpha's continuing advantage  isL > even greater.  But now, Compaq must compete either with a dead-ended AlphaL > platform or a laughable Itanic platform against POWER4 on the high end andI > Hammer on the low end, both of which have on-chip glue similar to EV7's  andk > reasonable power consumption.  >rI > But it's back to weasel-wording in the next section, where you have thea gallK > to suggest that Compaq evaluated Itanic and POWER4 in anything resemblingn anL > even-handed manner and found POWER4 wanting because, even though Itanic is arJ > complete slug by virtue of massively-flawed design assumptions that will@ > weigh it down forever in commercial (vs. floating-point-style)
 applications,fH > "Intel is an undisputed leader in process technology".  The use of the wordF > 'an' keeps the rationale merely completely misleading rather than anE > outright lie - since of course IBM is also 'an undisputed leader ina process K > technology', so when comparing Itanic to POWER4 that's a wash rather than7 > any telling Intel advantage. > C > And finally we have 'the essence of Alpha'.  If Intel will indeed 	 "leveragepH > Compaq's expertise in glueless multiprocessing, high bandwidth and low? > latency CPU designs, symmetric multithreading, and chip-basedhK > multiprocessing", then all the more reason to believe that *Compaq* couldyK > have leveraged them in Alpha effectively as well - with at least a 3-year H > head-start over their potential appearance on the decks of the Itanic. AndiJ > since POWER4 and Hammer appear to have about the same lead in several ofG > these areas, Compaq is now left without *any* competitive platform to  field @ > (unless they can convince people to commit to a declared-dying > architecture). > L > Saying that "the game plan appears valid and defensible" sounds a lot like a0D > 3-year-old pronouncing the likely outcome of the next Presidential electionI > based on his parents' political leanings:  he may know the names of thebI > candidates, but he has no clue about the mechanisms involved.  So while4G > you've done a decent job of taking Compaq's June rationalizations and4J > dressing them up in soothing and superficially-convincing verbiage, it'sG > still utter crap.  If you believe it, you're a fool; if not, you're a2 pimp.s >yK > I won't go into detailed deconstruction of your "Hasta la vista" article,sK > since it's based on the flawed premise that the migration off Alpha makes*L > some kind of sense and just goes down-hill from there.  But I will ask youJ > to identify any Intel commitment to include *any* enhancements to ItanicI > (which you seem to think are important upsides of the deal for Compaq -aF > though again this assumes that having VMS and Tru64 run on Itanic isH > worthwhile in the first place) that will make life easier for Compaq's OSs:K > I've seen absolutely no indication that Intel wants anything but to apply,L > the expertise of the Alpha team to keeping Itanic afloat, nor do I know ofI > any specific tweaks that would be much help to VMS or Tru64 anyway (and L > Itanic already incorporates the lock-step facilities that NSK needs).  And I0K > will take exception to your characterization of EV8 as "a classic examples ofL > trouble waiting to happen":  that sounds a lot more like a classic example/ > of an infomercial masquerading as journalism.l >n > - bill >g >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:25:55 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BEF0903.9030108@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  : > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message@ > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111102342060.15684-100000@world.std.com... > K >>I just put together a special issue of Shannon Knows Compaq that containse? >>three articles on Compaq's IPF Consolidation. Included in the8F >>free-for-the-downloading PDF are a discussion of why Compaq opted toJ >>scuttle Alpha, an explanation of why things were done as they were (e.g.K >>why publish an Alpha obituary three or four years before the architecture2? >>shuffles off its mortal coils), and what's behind the currento& >>unavailability of IPF-based systems. >> > J > Despite your introductory statement that "finally details are emerging",F > this is largely a re-hash of the bullshit that Compaq (and you) wereM > spreading so liberally just after June 25th.  Why you expect anyone to finda7 > it any more believable this time around is not clear.o    D Haven't and will not read the re-hash.  My tolerance for pain isn't 8 adequate to the task, and I've already suffered it once.  I Not really yelling at Terry.  I can understand if he feels that he needs 7 to work with Compaq.    J > Then you have the gall to reiterate that "escalating costs and dwindlingM > performance differentation rendered the Alpha business unsustainable in the L > long term".  This is just as much crap as it was when you tried to palm itN > off in July:  do you really think people have forgotten why by now, or it isM > just the 'big lie' philosophy at work in the hope that the truth has gotten  > a bit tired?    G  From the numbers I've read, the Alpha costs were recouped in the sale vH of Alphas, and then some.  Don't know if the same can be said about the I PC business.  I was always taught that sometimes in order to make money, cC you needed to spend some money, like in invest.  Seems that Compaq i* didn't want to do business in that manner.    I > Here's a hint:  if costs were indeed escalating, quantify that.  By all N > accounts I've heard from the engineers EV8 was on track for both performanceF > and delivery date, and over the years Alpha development has remainedH > admirable stable in both progress and costs (save when it's been beingK > fucked over by upper management) - and has *easily* been justified by theeK > profits Alpha systems have generated.  I won't repeat my entire July 19thMH > rebuttal from comp.arch et al. here, but it remains as valid as it did0 > then - and your contentions remain as vacuous. > K > And given that Compaq's 'misguided advertising' experience had supposedly4N > already suggested that it wasn't *just* performance that sold Alphas, that'sE > a pretty definite indication that some temporary - or even possiblysM > permanent - erosion in this area would hardly be fatal.  Not that Alpha wasnI > in any danger from IA64 in that area:  POWER4 was and still is the onlyoK > credible 64-bit competitor (though Hammer could possibly become one), andpM > its choice of CMP over SMT could well have left EV8 with advantages in bothr> > chip area and power consumption if not absolute performance.    G When mentioning POWER4, it is apparent that IBM thought that continued cH development of their products was better than dumping their products in G favor of using Intel vaporware.  It seems to me that in June the stock F prices were something like:r   IBM - below $100 Compaq - around $20n   Now:  
 IBM - $114( Compaq - $7.73  (and being bought by HP)  @ Not saying that stock prices have too much to do with technical F competence, but they do seem to follow business competence.  I'll let $ everyone form their own conclusions.     Dave     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 01:19:18 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org< Message-ID: <qsFH7.16641$I6.3802568@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee; news:6qxH7.98840$7x1.8281887@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...d >e: > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message@ > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111110935030.14587-100000@world.std.com... >r > ...c > L > > One thing the Taliban vermin have not managed to do is deprive us of our: > > right to freely express our opinion in a public forum. >KH > It's by no means clear that the Taliban want to deprive us of anything save> > our God-given right to interfere in their part of the world.  J Well, thanks for providing me with some contextual information which I canG use to help assess where you are coming from. It is indeed eye-opening.   G As a proud United States (the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, BAR NONE!)tL military veteran who spent two years in harm's way I am delighted that I hadK the opportunity to defend your right to express your considered and erudite  opinion.  G But I fear that you are 100 percent wrong about what the Taliban verminyI already have deprived us of: to wit, some 5,000 innocent victims who werevK brutally murdered in a completely unconscionable, indefensible, and totallytA unprovoked cowardly sneak attack on the United States of America."    K As for interference in their idyllic little garden spot (and women love it,eJ too!), I note that the United States of America has provided more food andF other foreign aid to Afghani citizens (not to be confused with TalibanA vermin) than has any other nation, including those of the Islamicd persuasion.t   > 
 >  The IPFK > > consolidation remains an incendiary issue. What I find ironic about the C > > matter is the fact that the shrillness of the diatribe often isa	 inversely K > > proportional to the financial stake of the individual expressing his org > > her opinion. > J > I think you may have a bit of difficulty distinguishing between 'shrill' andiC > 'blunt'.  Not to mention trouble understanding the virtues of thecF > objectivity one brings to the table when one doesn't have a personal+ > financial or career-related axe to grind.r  L Again, that's your opinion and you are free to express it. A damn sight more. free to express it than you would be in Kabul.     >  > >h > >pI > > PS-- liberally salting a polemic with expressions such as "bullsh*t,"eK > > "infomercial"," gall," "mealy-mouthed," "utter crap," "fool" and "pimp"oF > > (to mention a few)  detracts immensely from the credibility of the messagee > > and the messenger alike. >iK > Your opinion.  I've had numerous comments to the contrary from people whooJ > have decided that being more politely pissed off just hasn't worked very! > well for the past decade or so.a >e  K Yes, I reiterate the fact that liberally salting a polemic with expressionsb such as "bullsh*t,"dK > > "infomercial"," gall," "mealy-mouthed," "utter crap," "fool" and "pimp"eF > > (to mention a few)  detracts immensely from the credibility of the messagew > > and the messenger alike.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 02:32:05 GMT & From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org> Message-ID: <FwGH7.19653$y52.2800386@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>   > I can't get to www.tru64.org  " Fixed.  Firewall went down at ISP.   Ken      -- Ken Farmer, kfarmer@tru64.orgp Tru64.org, http://www.tru64.orgs Tru64.org Newsletter: < http://www2.tru64.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-Registration        6 "Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message+ news:3bef0aea.248621538@news.wcc.govt.nz...h > I can't get to www.tru64.orgD > Anyone else got a problem. For some reason I get some options from > auto.search.msn.come > 3 > On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 04:48:03 GMT, Terry C Shannono  > <shannon@world.std.com> wrote: >h > >aL > >I just put together a special issue of Shannon Knows Compaq that contains@ > >three articles on Compaq's IPF Consolidation. Included in theG > >free-for-the-downloading PDF are a discussion of why Compaq opted tohK > >scuttle Alpha, an explanation of why things were done as they were (e.g.fL > >why publish an Alpha obituary three or four years before the architecture@ > >shuffles off its mortal coils), and what's behind the current' > >unavailability of IPF-based systems.h > >eJ > >While you're at www.tru64.org, be sure to take a look at the results ofE > >the SKC/Tru64.org IPF Consolidation survey, and participate in thee* > >brand-new survey Ken and I just posted. > >a	 > >Enjoy,  > >l > >terry shannon > >r >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 02:40:59 GMTd4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org< Message-ID: <%EGH7.16718$I6.3870195@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  1 "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org> wrote in messageI8 news:FwGH7.19653$y52.2800386@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...  > > I can't get to www.tru64.org >l$ > Fixed.  Firewall went down at ISP. >n  E Thanks for getting to the bottom of the problem, Ken. Nice to see howg0 responsive an informal, volunteer effort can be!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 04:08:40 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgB Message-ID: <cXHH7.111557$7x1.8994628@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  / Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messaget2 news:ruEH7.5156$o16.275720@typhoon2.gnilink.net...G > Bill you have become a broken record adding nothing new and trying to  shout % > down anyone who disagrees with you.a  J Actually, the only times I repeat myself significantly are when respondingI to some fool or knave trying to foist off Compaq's bull for the Nth time."K As I've said before, as long as they keep dishing it out, I'll keep calling  them on it.t   >hK > More importantly by your own admission you have no current investments inhL > this technology and your only interest seems to be that of a disillusioned6 > former Digital employee with a chip on his shoulder.  F I wasn't aware that having an interest in the truth had any particularH entrance requirements.  And don't particularly care whether you agree on that point.e   >yL > Why do you keep it up since you are not a current user of this technology?  @ 1.  I consider the technology of significant interest and worth.  B 2.  I'm acquainted with a lot of people for whom the technology is personally important.q  H 3.  I think corporate incompetence and deliberate perfidy are bad thingsH that should be exposed and paid for, for the good of society as a whole.  E But, again, exactly what business is it of yours what my interest is?oL Perhaps you find it easier to question my motives than the substance of what I have to say.  I > Do you think people are weak minded fools who must be protected by yourtE > brilliant comments which are the same over and over and over again?t  K You certainly appear to be a fool, but more obstinate than weak-minded.  OnsF the other hand, there are always newcomers to worry about who might beJ seduced by some of slicker snake-oil being so liberally applied, and thereL may yet be others still sitting on the fence, so whenever the crap starts toH flow, I'll be there with hip boots and my shovel.  If you haven't gotten' used to it by now, you will eventually.o   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 04:42:41 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <5rIH7.146137$tb2.12081904@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  = Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageE6 news:qsFH7.16641$I6.3802568@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >p7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message = > news:6qxH7.98840$7x1.8281887@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...  > >l< > > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in messageB > > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111110935030.14587-100000@world.std.com... > >e > > ...s > >iJ > > > One thing the Taliban vermin have not managed to do is deprive us of ours< > > > right to freely express our opinion in a public forum. > > J > > It's by no means clear that the Taliban want to deprive us of anything > save@ > > our God-given right to interfere in their part of the world. >tL > Well, thanks for providing me with some contextual information which I canI > use to help assess where you are coming from. It is indeed eye-opening.   H Would that it were.  But the following makes it clear that your eyes areJ firmly shut.  Of course, since your view is a popular one, you may feel itF can gain you advantage in an ad hominem manner in the wholly-unrelated discussion about Alpha.n   > I > As a proud United States (the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, BAR NONE!)tJ > military veteran who spent two years in harm's way I am delighted that I hadgE > the opportunity to defend your right to express your considered andn eruditeh
 > opinion.  H While I respect the patriotism and honor of the servicemen and women whoI served in Vietnam (IIRC your area of service), I'm afraid I don't believewH that they were doing me (or the rest of our country) any favors by beingE there, though that may have been more justifiable in the early stagesdI (pre-1967, say) and I don't in any way question their *personal* motives.    >gI > But I fear that you are 100 percent wrong about what the Taliban vermin K > already have deprived us of: to wit, some 5,000 innocent victims who were E > brutally murdered in a completely unconscionable, indefensible, and  totallyIC > unprovoked cowardly sneak attack on the United States of America.l  L Well, the number at least keeps decreasing (more like 4400, the last count IJ heard), but it's still bad enough.  The important point in this particularJ discussion, however, is that AFAICT the Taliban had nothing to do with theE attack (there were Saudis, Egyptians, and several other nationalitieseK represented in the suspects, but if there were any Afghans at all they wereaL a small minority - and of course Bin Laden himself is both Saudi and, AFAIK,F not a member of the Taliban, nor are most of his associates in crime).  F The principal offense of the Taliban, AFAICT, is that they presumed toH suggest that Afghanistan is not unclaimed territory through which we mayD freely pursue people we choose to but rather a sovereign state whoseH permission and assistance should be sought in such an endeavor - withoutH cavalier rejection of 'discussion or negotiation' and refusal to present pertinent evidence.e  K Do I believe that discussion and evidence would have obtained the Taliban'stI consent?  Not necessarily (and of course now we'll never know for sure) -oG but making the effort *would* have allowed us to be perceived as havingiK attempted to go about things properly rather than as a global bully who canbK all the more easily be perceived as having in some ways deserved the suckerf
 punch we got.    >d >-I > As for interference in their idyllic little garden spot (and women love  it,dL > too!), I note that the United States of America has provided more food andH > other foreign aid to Afghani citizens (not to be confused with TalibanC > vermin) than has any other nation, including those of the Islamicl
 > persuasion.e  L As well we should, being by far the nation most capable of such humanitarianK activities - though our contributions, both earlier and recently, have beentG far too inadequate to prevent mass starvation given the past 4 years ofo( drought and the current mass migrations.  J Too bad we pretty much ignored the other aspects of life in Afghanistan asJ soon as the people we were supporting (Bin Laden prominent among them) hadL succeeded in driving out the Soviets 12 years ago - but that's unfortunatelyF the way we tend to operate over there (see Iraq, for example), and whyK fanatics like Bin Laden can find plenty of support and recruits among thoseaL whom we disaccomodate by the combination of our unignorable presence and our near-complete disinterest.  I Couldn't find anything pertinent to Alpha in your response, so that about  does it.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 05:45:56 GMT1& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <omJH7.5392$o16.285334@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagem< news:cXHH7.111557$7x1.8994628@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >d1 > Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messageuK > > Do you think people are weak minded fools who must be protected by youroG > > brilliant comments which are the same over and over and over again?m > I > You certainly appear to be a fool, but more obstinate than weak-minded.r  J Got it - in the world of Bill Todd anyone who sees things differently fromJ the great sage Todd is a weak-minded or obstinate fool.  It must be such aH burden on you being the absolute source of subjective of opinion that is indisputably without error....   > OnH > the other hand, there are always newcomers to worry about who might beL > seduced by some of slicker snake-oil being so liberally applied, and there. > may yet be others still sitting on the fence  H As I suspected you see people as being to weak minded to be able to drawE there own conclusions and must shout down the anyone who has not beeng blessed with your insight.  K I thought Terry's Taliban analogy references were a little over the top but L it does appear to me at this point he has correctly identified behavior thatK is about as rational and open to the concept of alternate points of view asu the Taliban's behavior.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:04:54 +0100f= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>u( Subject: Re: UNIX-like utilities for VMS) Message-ID: <3BEED9E6.7CC8FE91@dummy.com>   . You can find some of them ported to VMS here :  ) http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html    Jan-Erik Sderholm.c           Willy Jair wrote:l >  > Hi,n > < > Does any know where can I download the UNIX-like utilities) > for VMS? i.e. awk, sed, vi, cut ... etcr > 	 > Thanks,m > Willy Jair > wjair@hotmail.come   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:31:58 +0100 (CET)n: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>/ Subject: RE: Verify contents of the floppy diskyJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0111112320370.28665-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  2  Formal request: anwer written after original text- is much more readable. See my 1'st qestion :)s  ' On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, WILLIAM WEBB wrote:l  3 >+For crying out loud you're doing it the hard way.c  (  That is answer for David's post or me ?-  Have hope you see the point to Jerry post ;)s  0 >+Use MGPCX.  It's free. (thanks again, Hunter!)  0  Agree. But my aswer was not to the problem "how1 best move files to Windows" but "what can be donee, with disquette written with COPY/FOREIGN" ;>1  That a separate problem - someone may next time e. *know* what was done. Before overwriting b.ex./ original installation disquette with something t
 usefull ;]   [...~20 lines cut...] . >+> >+But I can't verify what's on the floppy. >+>h* >+> $ DUMP DVA0: ! and read the contens ;))                                         ^s)                                         |e  -:)    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEv. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 02:39:43 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>6 Subject: Re: What Compaq & HP should be told about VMS< Message-ID: <PDGH7.16716$I6.3869112@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message-7 news:d7791aa1.0111090822.20db5fe6@posting.google.com... 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message: news:<ArAG7.151970$YL3.45338401@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>...F > > We, as users of OpenVMS, have to make our voices heard by the only peopleI > > who can help us - specifically the Boards of Directors of both Compaq7 and.F > > HP, and other shareholders who will ultimately vote on the merger. > >t > >mJ > > a)  write EACH member of both Boards of Directors personally and state thatJ > > should OpenVMS be de-emphasized/de-supported, all my company's furtherK > > computing purchases will definitely not be made from Compaq/HP. We willt/ > > endure the migration to IBM or Sun instead.r > >sG > > b) Buy one share each of Compaq and HP stock in order to be able toh standup K > > at the shareholder meetings which must take place to ratify the merger,  andoJ > > again re-iterate that the merged company will forever lose my business/ > > should OpenVMS be terminated/de-emphasized.O > >B  K First off, I have seen no evidence to support the claim that Carly or CurlyhK will scuttle VMS. Writing to the BoD members might be worthwhile, but who's L to know if those folks even see their own mail. Purchasing a share or ten ofI each company's stock is a damn good idea though... if nothing else, stockvK ownership imparts one with a degree of credibility that is beyond the reachb of a generic Usenet poster.c  L And the price is right (embarassingly low is a more accurate assessment) for6 a stock pick-up. Worth the modest investment, sez moi!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 06:04:35 +0000d# From: John McNulty <knode@jmtl.com>n7 Subject: Re: What do you think of the HP/Compaq merger?o/ Message-ID: <tuupk4bel756ec@corp.supernews.com>s  F I'm an ex Digital/Compaq employee of 13 years, with 11 in the UK Unix I Support Group, now 2 years freelance in the Tru64 space, and I'm praying o that the merger collapses.  K It doesn't do me any good at all, or my brother for that matter, who works hJ for a large UK reseller specialising in Compaq systems.  When I asked his J opinion, his response was "HP have their own chain of resellers, so where  does that leave us?".  h  H I see no benefit to this for customers, employees or shareholders.  The L product overlap is so massive that grafting the two companies into one will H be the equivelant of performing a major multiple organ transplant, with ' most of the duplicate parts thrown out.   I I have no confidence that the surgeons actually know what they're doing,  K and even if the patient does survive without bleeding to death first, what  6 kind of Frankenstein creation will be left afterwards?  H The truth is that customers don't want this.  I've not heard one single I customer comment (that wasn't paid for) stating this is a good idea. The tE employees I've spoken to (also share holders) don't want it and have tI unanimously said they will vote against it.  By all accounts the rest of iL the shareholders are non too happy either, after watching their investments 9 get butchered on the stock market after the announcement.t  L The only people that do want it are Carley and Capellas, who seem to be off ( in some cloud cuckoo land of their own.   K The GS (Wildfire) platform was a huge success for Compaq and the prospects fI for Tru64's continued growth had never looked brighter; what with a very mL fast and well engineered product supporting it, and the seeds of TruCluster L development finally maturing and bearing fruit.  I am stunned that Capellas J could not see or did not believe in the future revenue potential of Tru64  and VMS on Alpha & IA64.    J Actually, I just want to comment on that last point.  I do think that the I decision to move from Alpha to IA64 was a good one, and even if the deal @J pancakes this should still go ahead.  Intel may not be able to out design K Alpha on their own, but advances in their fabrication technology have more   than made up for it.    L The GS & ES range of systems are a fantastic technology in their own right, C and will still be world beaters with EV7 Alpha & IA64 chips inside.      John McNulty    I PS: If anyone's looking for a Tru64 Unix Contractor right now around the  L Thames Valley & London area, drop me a line.  My most recent experience was J to build a 3 node GS160 cluster with a multi-terrabye storageworks SAN in ' an NSPOF configuration, running V5.1.  e      
 Amy wrote:  F > I'm the site editor for searchHP.com. We provide news, expert adviceF > and technical information to HP users, but we are independent of HP.E > SearchHP members have expressed a lot of concerns about the merger,eB > wondering what it will mean to their technology investments. I'dE > really like to know what Compaq users think about the merger, and I-F > know that searchHP members would like to know too. If you would likeH > to share your opinion, please post it in our HP/Compaq merger forum at > g http://searchhp.discussions.techtarget.com/WebX?230@186.1HfhaObfbsZ^0@.ee8474f!viewtype=&skip=&expand=.  > We'd love to hear from you.>	 > Thanks,e > Amy Malloy   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.629 ************************