1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 12 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 630       Contents:/ Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems  Re: Attaching VT420 terminal Re: Attaching VT420 terminal( Re: BEWARE OF  VMS721_CLIUTL V2,.0 PATCH' Re: BEWARE OF VMS721_CLIUTL V2,.0 PATCH  Re: Compaq guarantees?- Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking (Memory)  Re: Configuring TCP/IP for VMS DCPS information Re: DCPS information  DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted$ Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted$ Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted$ RE: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted$ Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted$ Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted$ RE: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted$ Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted$ RE: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted DECNET task questionI Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG) L Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands(NLCUG)L Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands(NLCUG)! Re: eco patches & defragmentation ! Re: eco patches & defragmentation  File Organisation help Re: File Organisation help# Re: files with long lines in Pascal  Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY 7 Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted 2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!( Re: HP merger: new take VMS to Agilent ?( HSJ FMU show last most - stupid questionP RE: Insufficient Virtual Memory when Linking a Fortran Program (Alpha VMS 7.1-2) Re: LIB$xxx  Re: LIB$xxx  logins disabled  Re: MMS & ODS5 New website: OpenVMS.orgE Re: Rob's British Champion, was: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking  Re: samba on VAXE Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org  Star wars in ascii art ! Re: TCIP Service UDP/TCP Re: UNIX-like utilities for VMS & Re: Verify contents of the floppy disk Re: VMS721_CLIUTL-0200 Status?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 09 Nov 2001 02:33:27 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems- Message-ID: <87itcljeo8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ' Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> writes:   D > I'm investigating the purchase of an AlphaServer DS10 or DS10L forF > my own use.  I'd like to put plenty of memory in, but buying systems@ > from Compaq pre-configured with lots of RAM costs lots of $$$.F > Especially when you consider the purchase price of comparable memory > for high-end PCs.   B The DS machines are limited to 2 or 4 GB by the chipset. Cost will? be blown out by the odd ball memory you need; compare with good B SIMMs and weep. Crucial or Kingston will have what you want. Don't pay the Compaq rip-off prices.  A > Has anyone had experience of installing (cheaper) memory in the  > AlphaServer DS systems?    Some things never change...    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:53:46 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> 8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems+ Message-ID: <3BEFFE9A.16A05824@caltech.edu>    Bernard Strhl wrote: F > the question of which RAM's to install is layered with the question:? > do you have an official maintenance contract with DEC or not? H > If yes you must buy official DEC RAMs or KINGSTON RAMs. Otherwise yourE > maintenance contract is more or less useless. A DEC tekkno told me. H > If not the you may install every RAM but it's definetely better to get' > good quality RAM and no no-name RAMs.   D He may have told you that, but from everything I've ever heard it is grounds A ]for a lawsuit as it violates both US and European law.  See, for 	 instance,  the discussion at:  )   http://www.theinquirer.net/11110102.htm   H I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that if the memory in my system passesG both the PROM tests and any other memory diagnostic thrown at it Compaq H could not legally refuse to service the rest of the system.  That is, ifG I can demonstrate memory function using any diagnostic they choose (and B supply, if it isn't readily available), then they must service theD machine. If the memory did _not_ pass those tests then obviously youG would have to take reasonable steps to check if the memory was at fault F and Q service would not be responsible for that.  Typically that wouldF be to remove and reseat the memory (you or somebody you paid installedF it, so you are responsible that it is installed properly), and if thatE didn't do it, swap out that component (again, you put it in, you test F it.) But after that, if it still doesn't run, Q hasn't got a legal leg2 to stand on if they refuse to service the machine.  E The only grey area is if the machine won't run well enough to run the % memory diagnostics and you don't have G spare memory on hand to swap out.  In that case the onus is on the Q to % demonstrate that the failed component G is not theirs.  So you might conceivably end up getting charged for the $ call in the (incredibly remote case)H that the memory really is bad.  But the odds of the Q demonstrating that# are infinitesimal.  In 20 something D odd years working with computers I have occasionally seen a computer" fail when the memory module workedE loose (especially after the computer was moved - but you checked that # before you called them), and I have D seen memory develop bad bits (but never to the point that it stoppedF PROM level memory tests), and I've seen memory that wasn't appropriateG fail when installed (ie, buffered vs. unbuffered memory or wrong speed, B but this failure was from a working system, so that isn't the case* here).  However, I have never, ever seen aD formerly working memory module die to the point where it blocked the# PROM test.  I suppose it's possible D that it might develop a bad bit in the bytes of memory that the PROM" memory test requires, but the oddsC against it are very high.  Much more likely the CPU has died (which " happens quickly enough if the heatF sink somehow detaches) or the motherboard has died (they do short out,D crack, capacitors on them dry out and/or burn up, etc.) or the power8 supply is below spec (more likely than anything else.)     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 11:12:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems3 Message-ID: <MIQ9TX7m0dWg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3BEFFE9A.16A05824@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:   G > The only grey area is if the machine won't run well enough to run the ' > memory diagnostics and you don't have I > spare memory on hand to swap out.  In that case the onus is on the Q to ' > demonstrate that the failed component I > is not theirs.  So you might conceivably end up getting charged for the & > call in the (incredibly remote case)  > that the memory really is bad.  F But in that case you are paying for diagnosis of a non-warranteed part& of the system, so a charge seems fair.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:31:33 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems) Message-ID: <3BF00775.1451C261@127.0.0.1>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > W > In article <3BEFFE9A.16A05824@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: ) > > demonstrate that the failed component K > > is not theirs.  So you might conceivably end up getting charged for the ( > > call in the (incredibly remote case)" > > that the memory really is bad. > H > But in that case you are paying for diagnosis of a non-warranteed part( > of the system, so a charge seems fair.  H The other issue to add to that is what damage was / may have been causedG by the 'foreign' components. I'm sure many a field service engineer can F recount tales of self maintenance that went disasterously wrong, and a/ clients feeble attempts at hiding the evidence.   H We all know about anti static procedures don't we (we have to take it as part of our training). --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:43:32 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>% Subject: Re: Attaching VT420 terminal ) Message-ID: <3BEFB5E4.8D100D05@127.0.0.1>   # b_hterag@pacbell.net.invalid wrote:  > $ > no.spam@spam.spam.eggs.spam wrote:3 > [  Ah, the mark of a fellow Python user... :-)  ]   G When I signed up to Demon in '94, my first choice was MONTY as a system C name, and secondary was PYTHON, the former was used already. I keep A getting email for eric@ (rest of domain!) but worst all all, even 	 junkmail.   = > I knew the cable to be fine, but didn't suspect the port...  > A > Thanks to both of you for the suggestions. I'm happy again. :-)  > " > 'Cept for my dead TTA0 port. :-(  D True story. As a bit of an electronics person, I decided to buy in aH stock of the chips used on the outputs of the VT220, and we just swappedG them for sockets and we replaced them as and when. With a semiconductor F reference book, you may be able to determine the chip responsible, butE only try this if you're handy with a soldering iron, and you can take F the appropriate antistatic precautions (why produce and use CMOS RS232 chips I'll never know). G *I don't know* if your AS200 uses the same chips on the IO ports, but I  wouldn't be surprised....   E However the fault may even be more basic, if an MMJ, just inspect the D contacts, plugging keyboard plugs into this hole is known to disturbC them, bent out of shape. Third party crimp tools and plugs are also  temperamental.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:16:10 +0100 & From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>% Subject: Re: Attaching VT420 terminal $ Message-ID: <3BF011EA.41C6@c-lab.de>   Nic Clews wrote: >   I > them for sockets and we replaced them as and when. With a semiconductor H > reference book, you may be able to determine the chip responsible, butG > only try this if you're handy with a soldering iron, and you can take H > the appropriate antistatic precautions (why produce and use CMOS RS232 > chips I'll never know). I > *I don't know* if your AS200 uses the same chips on the IO ports, but I  > wouldn't be surprised....  >   ? A PC164 board uses the WWK (world wide known) SN75188/75189 aka E 1488/1489 chips, just behind the serial ports. Every electronics shop F should have them in stock (ahem, hopefully still...). They are also onF most of the old PC serial ISA cards (those with one/two 16[45]50). TheB 'input' type is the x89, I think. The serial input pin on the 9pinB connector is 2, so, if you have a voltmeter, you should be able toE measure some 'wiggling' here once you hammer the keyboard. Datasheets 9 are at least to be found at www.ti.com, look for SN75189.   H This will very likely a SMD chip, so replacing it is somewhat difficult.H It might be easier to just buy an SMD replacement, glue it on top of theE broken one, connect the power supply pins (four! GND, 5V, -12V, +12V) D and then (well, before...) carefully bend the two pins of the brokenD transceiver and wire the new one instead. With needle tweezers and a4 fine watch screwdriver this is not that complicated.  = As Nic said, you should know how to solder fine parts or know  somebody...   
 Good Luck.  G > However the fault may even be more basic, if an MMJ, just inspect the F > contacts, plugging keyboard plugs into this hole is known to disturbE > them, bent out of shape. Third party crimp tools and plugs are also  > temperamental.  A Contact spray ?? I've experienced oxidation problems with 10baseT 	 contacts.      --  * Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:16:39 +0200 & From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com>1 Subject: Re: BEWARE OF  VMS721_CLIUTL V2,.0 PATCH * Message-ID: <3BEFAF96.BED5C154@compaq.com>  . This problem was fixed. See VMS721_CLIUTL V3.0# Version of CLIUTLMSG.EXE was wrong.    Guy    john nixon wrote:   E > I don't really want to apply this eco.  What I want is to apply the  > fiber-scsi eco.  > M > But the fibre-scsi eco says if you want all the benefits ,you need to apply  > the SYS and MOUNT96 ecos. N >     But the MOUNT96 eco says you need the CLIUTL eco (which I wasn't able to > find till today)I >         And now, the CLIUTL eco suggests adding the AUDSRV eco, which I  > have't even looked for yet. G >             I wonder what additional eco the AUDSRV eco will ask for.  > N > Retirement (for me, not for our VMS systems) is becoming a real possibility.6 > And if this keeps up, maybe for our VMS systems too. > I > "Karl Rohwedder" <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote in message & > news:3BE272B5.60104@volkswagen.de...L > > I've installed the CLIUTL Pactch DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_CLIUTL-V0200--4.PCSI. > > G > > Afterwards the SHOW QUEUE display is scrambled and looks like this:  > > 3 > > Batch queue WZB04_BAT_QUE_3_1, idle, on WZB04::  > >    <WZB04 Service Queue> > > 9 > >    Entry  Jobname         Username             Status 9 > >    -----  -------         --------             ------  > >      913I > >    AnoFTP DNC-Serv  no privilege                         File: SYSTEM ' > Holding until  2-NOV-2001 11:17:55.14  > >      914I > >    AnoFTP DNC-Serv  no privilege                         File: SYSTEM ' > Holding until  2-NOV-2001 11:17:55.17 L > >      510 SAVPAR        no privilege                         File: SYSTEM' > Holding until  2-NOV-2001 14:30:00.00 L > >      830 RVSCHK        no privilege                         File: SYSTEM' > Holding until  2-NOV-2001 21:00:00.00 E > >      343 BAX_JOB       no privilege                         File: * > BAX_ACCOUNT  Holding until  2-NOV-2001 2 > >  > > ...  > > D > > After renaminf QUEMAN.EXE_OLD to QUEMAN.EXE and reinstalling it, > everything is o.k. > > -- > > 1 > > mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards  > >  > > Karl RohwedderF > > iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 BraunschweigE > > Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843 I > >   E-Mail: rohwedder@decus.decus.de           | iT-IngTeam@t-online.de 0 > >           karl.rohwedder@it-ingenieurteam.de" > > DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER > >  > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 06:37:07 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>0 Subject: Re: BEWARE OF VMS721_CLIUTL V2,.0 PATCH- Message-ID: <1011112063549.351A@Ives.egh.com>    Thanks, Guy!  8 I just downloaded and installed it.  Seems to work okay.> The SHOW QUEUE display is fine.  No problems to report so far.   BTW, no reboot is needed.   % On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, Guy Peleg wrote:   0 > This problem was fixed. See VMS721_CLIUTL V3.0% > Version of CLIUTLMSG.EXE was wrong.  >  > Guy  >  > john nixon wrote:  > G > > I don't really want to apply this eco.  What I want is to apply the  > > fiber-scsi eco.  > > O > > But the fibre-scsi eco says if you want all the benefits ,you need to apply  > > the SYS and MOUNT96 ecos.oP > >     But the MOUNT96 eco says you need the CLIUTL eco (which I wasn't able to > > find till today)K > >         And now, the CLIUTL eco suggests adding the AUDSRV eco, which Iy > > have't even looked for yet.AI > >             I wonder what additional eco the AUDSRV eco will ask for.e > >lP > > Retirement (for me, not for our VMS systems) is becoming a real possibility.8 > > And if this keeps up, maybe for our VMS systems too. > >gK > > "Karl Rohwedder" <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote in messagea( > > news:3BE272B5.60104@volkswagen.de...N > > > I've installed the CLIUTL Pactch DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_CLIUTL-V0200--4.PCSI. > > >mI > > > Afterwards the SHOW QUEUE display is scrambled and looks like this:m > > >05 > > > Batch queue WZB04_BAT_QUE_3_1, idle, on WZB04::e > > >    <WZB04 Service Queue> > > > ; > > >    Entry  Jobname         Username             Statust; > > >    -----  -------         --------             ------N > > >      913K > > >    AnoFTP DNC-Serv  no privilege                         File: SYSTEMa) > > Holding until  2-NOV-2001 11:17:55.14  > > >      914K > > >    AnoFTP DNC-Serv  no privilege                         File: SYSTEMo) > > Holding until  2-NOV-2001 11:17:55.17sN > > >      510 SAVPAR        no privilege                         File: SYSTEM) > > Holding until  2-NOV-2001 14:30:00.00sN > > >      830 RVSCHK        no privilege                         File: SYSTEM) > > Holding until  2-NOV-2001 21:00:00.00tG > > >      343 BAX_JOB       no privilege                         File:A, > > BAX_ACCOUNT  Holding until  2-NOV-2001 2 > > >E	 > > > ...e > > >uF > > > After renaminf QUEMAN.EXE_OLD to QUEMAN.EXE and reinstalling it, > > everything is o.k. > > > -- > > > 3 > > > mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regardsh > > >  > > > Karl RohwedderH > > > iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 BraunschweigG > > > Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843nK > > >   E-Mail: rohwedder@decus.decus.de           | iT-IngTeam@t-online.den2 > > >           karl.rohwedder@it-ingenieurteam.de$ > > > DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER > > >r > > >  >  >  >    -- I John Santoso Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 07:32:42 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)6 Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? 3 Message-ID: <IXTKi994AiXW@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-1111011115090001@user-2ive62s.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:-H > In article <9sh28k$sb$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote: >   N >> I do not believe there is any kind of agreement between those two companiesM >> that could bind the employees or restrict in any way their ability to earn  >> a living. > E > In this kind of deal, I think there usually _is_ an agreement aboutnK > re-hiring transfered employees.  I suspect Compaq is barred from offering H > these folks jobs without Intel's consent, for a period of a few years.  I    There are often no-hire argeements between prime and sub- contractors. D    Their enforcement in court is not guarranteed, but most employeesF    don't care to take both thier current and future employer to court.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:20:27 +0100 (MET)i& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>6 Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking (Memory)6 Message-ID: <200111120720.IAA17171@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   John Duncan McLean wrotes:   >>> B Have you looked at the memory from www.dataram.com ?  Click on the6 right-hand side to get to the Compaq Alpha products. ?  G They don't display the price but at least you will discover if there ise6 any compatible mmeory with the correct number of pins. <<<-   Hallo John,-  J I did not mean, that you can't find memory from other vendors then Compaq.H I did mean, that this type of memory is not industry standard other thenJ the XP1000 memory. For the XP1000 I can use every PC Dram with ECC. I haveJ not to look for a designed for Alpha label. In case of this, the price forI the memory is much more cheaper, then the price for DS20, ES40 memory for F the same memory size. Also you can use higher sized standard memory ifF you will get it from any vendor, you must not wait that Compaq produceG this for Alpha like DS20. Kingston and Dataram und so on, could produceaF a 4GB memory option for DS20, but they don't do it, because is not the standard pin layout.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:31:01 -0500i5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> ' Subject: Re: Configuring TCP/IP for VMS 2 Message-ID: <8c7vOyu9G0=o7i73YTaAM8WZRMgj@4ax.com>  9 Make sure you know what version you are running.  Type ino6 UCX SHOW VERSION.  I think V4.1 and V4.2 are supported on V6.2, but V5.x is not.    David R. Beattyn  E On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:37:33 +0800, "TYFOO" <tyfoo@dsm.com.my> wrote:)  G >Anyone know of a good resource somewhere on configuring TCP/IP for VMSeA >6.2-1H3? I just want to enable TCP/IP on this machine. Figure itkI >shouldn't be that difficult. I found the TCPIP command, but can't reallya >figure out what to do with it.e >e >d >-chongh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:04:55 +0100a- From: Serge ZANGHERI <serge.zangheri@sema.fr>t Subject: DCPS informationn' Message-ID: <3BEFE517.813A631C@sema.fr>)  7 Hi , new in this news, and new in VMS world as well ...gE I m looking for information about DCPS, coz I got a problem with thisg product.> So I d like to get information before to ask the real problem.H I already have a lot of VMS site and I saw the web ring about VMS, but I$ didn t found information about DCPS. Thanks Sergee   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:53:26 -0500e0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> Subject: Re: DCPS information ; Message-ID: <121120011053260500%paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>   6 In article <3BEFE517.813A631C@sema.fr>, Serge ZANGHERI <serge.zangheri@sema.fr> wrote:l  G > I m looking for information about DCPS, coz I got a problem with thisv
 > product.@ > So I d like to get information before to ask the real problem.J > I already have a lot of VMS site and I saw the web ring about VMS, but I& > didn t found information about DCPS.  = The most accurate DCPS information is in the Software Productm' Description (SPD) which you can find ats  "    http://www.compaq.com/info/SPD/  D Feel free to ask questions here, but if you have a support contract,B please contact your local Customer Support Center.  Often they canF provide better support for a particular problem you are having in your environment.   Paul   -- s  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringe   Compaq Computer Corporationh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:20:39 +0100t( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch>) Subject: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted 4 Message-ID: <9sop9p$14sco1$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>   Hi All,e  K Where do I find RZ28 or bigger for a DEC 3000 model 400? I want to get this J in Europe (too much hassle importing from the US), and will obviously pay.+ Another option would be a StorageWorks box.1  B If you have suggestions or want to sell, please contact me direct.   --2 Simon Brown, Casa Bergenia, 7031 Laax, Switzerland www.laax.ch HB9DRV   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 09:26:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wantedw3 Message-ID: <MjoXy7X0K40A@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  _ In article <9sop9p$14sco1$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>, "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> writes:t	 > Hi All,f > M > Where do I find RZ28 or bigger for a DEC 3000 model 400? I want to get this L > in Europe (too much hassle importing from the US), and will obviously pay.- > Another option would be a StorageWorks box.g  A The eBay site often has DEC gear available from European sellers..? For anything larger than an RZ28, I would suggest a used BA356,1= since when the DEC 3000 line was built the higher speed (moreR  heat) drives were not available.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:36:23 +0100 ( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch>- Subject: Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wantedu4 Message-ID: <9soq78$14uu57$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>  	 Hi Larry,t  J Good idea about eBay. Question: would the DEC 3000 model 400 support Ultra8 disks? I though it was 'normal' SCSI or maybe Wide SCSI.   Anyone know? --2 Simon Brown, Casa Bergenia, 7031 Laax, Switzerland www.laax.ch HB9DRV  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:MjoXy7X0K40A@eisner.encompasserve.org...dD > In article <9sop9p$14sco1$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>, "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> writes: > > Hi All,t > > J > > Where do I find RZ28 or bigger for a DEC 3000 model 400? I want to get thisI > > in Europe (too much hassle importing from the US), and will obviouslyt pay./ > > Another option would be a StorageWorks box.e >cC > The eBay site often has DEC gear available from European sellers.aA > For anything larger than an RZ28, I would suggest a used BA356,@? > since when the DEC 3000 line was built the higher speed (more3" > heat) drives were not available.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:37:03 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>u- Subject: RE: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted'9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEPFDIAA.tom@kednos.com>d  @ Doesn't matter, you can get 68/50 pin adapters both M-M and F-F,  = just bought one at Frys for $15 and almost any SCSI will work    > -----Original Message-----/ > From: Simon Brown [mailto:simon.brown@kns.ch] ) > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:36 AMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy/ > Subject: Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wantedn >e >o > Hi Larry,I >cL > Good idea about eBay. Question: would the DEC 3000 model 400 support Ultra: > disks? I though it was 'normal' SCSI or maybe Wide SCSI. >. > Anyone know? > --4 > Simon Brown, Casa Bergenia, 7031 Laax, Switzerland > www.laax.ch HB9DRV >t< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:MjoXy7X0K40A@eisner.encompasserve.org...rF > > In article <9sop9p$14sco1$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>, "Simon Brown" > <simon.brown@kns.ch> writes:
 > > > Hi All,u > > >oL > > > Where do I find RZ28 or bigger for a DEC 3000 model 400? I want to get > thisK > > > in Europe (too much hassle importing from the US), and will obviouslys > pay.1 > > > Another option would be a StorageWorks box.p > >aE > > The eBay site often has DEC gear available from European sellers.cC > > For anything larger than an RZ28, I would suggest a used BA356, A > > since when the DEC 3000 line was built the higher speed (moreb$ > > heat) drives were not available. >a >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:38:26 -0700s% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>.- Subject: Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk WantedaB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011112083700.00b04410@raptor.psccos.com>  I Define "support".  Did DEC ever test them in one?  No, since they weren'tiM available at the time.  Does that mean it won't work?  Not necessarily.  I've L put UltraWide SCSI in "unsupported" systems with great results, just get the? proper interface converters.  Your mileage may vary, of course.l  * At 08:36 AM 11/12/2001, Simon Brown wrote:
 >Hi Larry, >dK >Good idea about eBay. Question: would the DEC 3000 model 400 support Ultrah9 >disks? I though it was 'normal' SCSI or maybe Wide SCSI.r > 
 >Anyone know?e >-- 3 >Simon Brown, Casa Bergenia, 7031 Laax, Switzerlandi >www.laax.ch HB9DRVp >o; >"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in messages. >news:MjoXy7X0K40A@eisner.encompasserve.org...F > > In article <9sop9p$14sco1$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>, "Simon Brown" ><simon.brown@kns.ch> writes: 
 > > > Hi All,l > > > L > > > Where do I find RZ28 or bigger for a DEC 3000 model 400? I want to get >thisMK > > > in Europe (too much hassle importing from the US), and will obviouslyn >pay.!1 > > > Another option would be a StorageWorks box.c > >lE > > The eBay site often has DEC gear available from European sellers.sC > > For anything larger than an RZ28, I would suggest a used BA356,tA > > since when the DEC 3000 line was built the higher speed (more $ > > heat) drives were not available.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:05:19 +0100 ( From: "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch>- Subject: Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wantedt4 Message-ID: <9sorth$14ll1t$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>   Hi Dan,p  J Thanks - I didn't realize the DEC 3000 hardware could talk to these disks. --2 Simon Brown, Casa Bergenia, 7031 Laax, Switzerland www.laax.ch HB9DRV  2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:5.1.0.14.2.20011112083700.00b04410@raptor.psccos.com...K > Define "support".  Did DEC ever test them in one?  No, since they weren'toI > available at the time.  Does that mean it won't work?  Not necessarily.: I'veJ > put UltraWide SCSI in "unsupported" systems with great results, just get thehA > proper interface converters.  Your mileage may vary, of course.E >w, > At 08:36 AM 11/12/2001, Simon Brown wrote: > >Hi Larry, > > G > >Good idea about eBay. Question: would the DEC 3000 model 400 support  Ultrah; > >disks? I though it was 'normal' SCSI or maybe Wide SCSI.t > >l > >Anyone know?  > >-- 5 > >Simon Brown, Casa Bergenia, 7031 Laax, SwitzerlandU > >www.laax.ch HB9DRVa > >o= > >"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in messages0 > >news:MjoXy7X0K40A@eisner.encompasserve.org...H > > > In article <9sop9p$14sco1$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>, "Simon Brown" > ><simon.brown@kns.ch> writes:( > > > > Hi All,u > > > >tJ > > > > Where do I find RZ28 or bigger for a DEC 3000 model 400? I want to gety > >this.C > > > > in Europe (too much hassle importing from the US), and willi	 obviously  > >pay.E3 > > > > Another option would be a StorageWorks box.C > > >aG > > > The eBay site often has DEC gear available from European sellers.OE > > > For anything larger than an RZ28, I would suggest a used BA356,uC > > > since when the DEC 3000 line was built the higher speed (more & > > > heat) drives were not available. >e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 11:08:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)v- Subject: RE: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk WantedS3 Message-ID: <TeLAyoVYfD4S@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEPFDIAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: B > Doesn't matter, you can get 68/50 pin adapters both M-M and F-F, > ? > just bought one at Frys for $15 and almost any SCSI will work:  3 I presume the goal is to get UltraSCSI performance.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 11:07:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wantedg3 Message-ID: <K3ounMl$e8Du@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <9soq78$14uu57$1@ID-6220.news.dfncis.de>, "Simon Brown" <simon.brown@kns.ch> writes:   L > Good idea about eBay. Question: would the DEC 3000 model 400 support Ultra: > disks? I though it was 'normal' SCSI or maybe Wide SCSI.  & Not with the built-in SCSI controller.  A I don't know if there is a TurboChannel UltraSCSI controller withu VMS driver support.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:54:41 -0800A# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> - Subject: RE: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wantedo9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEPJDIAA.tom@kednos.com>.  A Well, in my case performance wasn't the issue, only functionality1B and as I have empirically determinded with the adapters, I can useA 50 pin drives in a 533au and 68pin drives in a VAX, if I need to.    > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]) > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 9:08 AMf > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com / > Subject: RE: DEC 3000 model 400 - Disk Wanted  >  > A > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEPFDIAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom  " > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:D > > Doesn't matter, you can get 68/50 pin adapters both M-M and F-F, > > A > > just bought one at Frys for $15 and almost any SCSI will work  > 5 > I presume the goal is to get UltraSCSI performance.a >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:24:57 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e Subject: DECNET task question , Message-ID: <3BEFCDA1.B61D2106@videotron.ca>  N If I have a command procedure CHOCOLATE.COM in my SYS$LOGIN, and CHOCOLATE.COMK run CHOCOLATE.EXE which assigns a channel to SYS$NET to do input/output, itoG should be able to communicate to the process that invoked it, correct ?e   eg:s; node1: OPEN/READ/WRITE test node2"user pass"::"0=CHOCOLATE"s 	  WRITE TEST "GET RECIPE" 	  READ TEST mysymbol0
 	  etc etc  D this would execute chocolate.com on node2 and execute chocolate.exe.    H Now, inside CHOCOLATE.EXE, what happens when the client process on node1L closes the link (or decnet goes down).  Does the application get any controlL messages or is the image $FORCEXed automatically without any warning and the* process returns to running netserver.exe ?  N I have written some server processes that declare decnet objects and those getN the whole load of control messages over incoming requests and am wondering howN much of that code could be re-used to write a simpler "on demand" program that1 would run only when a user requests that service.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:40:21 +0100 3 From: "Gerrit Woertman" <gerrit.woertman@hccnet.nl> R Subject: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG)) Message-ID: <9snu48$42p$1@news.hccnet.nl>   L The Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG, a combination of DECUS and BENTUG)J organizes on November, 29, in Soest, the Netherlands, a day about Disaster
 Tolerance.H If you are interested, the program (mostly in the Dutch language) can be found at:  http://www.nlcug.nl/e  K When planning this event half a year ago, we didn't realize that this topic  would be that actual.5  . Information can be obtained at: nlcug@wispa.nl  0 Our next event in April, will be about Security.   regards, Gerrit Woertman    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:52:36 +0100 (MET)D9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> U Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands(NLCUG) ; Message-ID: <01KAMCHCOFC090UTW5@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>B  N > The Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG, a combination of DECUS and BENTUG)L > organizes on November, 29, in Soest, the Netherlands, a day about Disaster > Tolerance.J > If you are interested, the program (mostly in the Dutch language) can be! > found at:  http://www.nlcug.nl/@ > M > When planning this event half a year ago, we didn't realize that this topict > would be that actual.   ( You probably mean "current" ("aktuell").  H Yes, I suppose that any operating system which has survived two company F buy-outs as well as the death of the architecture it was designed for - (and vice versa) is pretty disaster-tolerant!f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:10:38 +0100e2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>U Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands(NLCUG)oG Message-ID: <3befd6b5$0$19522$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>r  L "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag5 news:01KAMCHCOFC090UTW5@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...uH > > The Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG, a combination of DECUS and BENTUG)1E > > organizes on November, 29, in Soest, the Netherlands, a day about  Disaster > > Tolerance.L > > If you are interested, the program (mostly in the Dutch language) can be# > > found at:  http://www.nlcug.nl/s > >tI > > When planning this event half a year ago, we didn't realize that this  topice > > would be that actual.< > * > You probably mean "current" ("aktuell"). >tI > Yes, I suppose that any operating system which has survived two company G > buy-outs as well as the death of the architecture it was designed for1/ > (and vice versa) is pretty disaster-tolerant!   ,   ... never seen it from that point of view!   Ren   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Nov 2001 23:22:44 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>* Subject: Re: eco patches & defragmentation- Message-ID: <87n11xjni3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  6 "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> writes:  ; > It seems good old wonderful dfu can do it (undocumented):    @ > dfu set sys$system:sys$incarnation.dat/nomove/ignore=interlock   D Should be no problem, the only change is to set a bit in the header.> Be an idea to re-boot and clear out any cached headers though.  B > Is this safe ?  If so, it resolves my existing problem, and justD > leaves the issue of future patches for someone at Compaq to solve.   Another fix for PCSI ;).   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.0@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:50:36 +0100,( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>* Subject: Re: eco patches & defragmentation- Message-ID: <VA.000004b7.5435d2c4@bluewin.ch>:  H In article <1005141790.1291.0.nnrp-14.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris  Sharman wrote:; > It seems good old wonderful dfu can do it (undocumented):w > @ > dfu set sys$system:sys$incarnation.dat/nomove/ignore=interlock >  Aha, I hadn't thought of dfu.i  N I've also got a bit of DCL to read setfilenomove.com and determine whether it N needs running. It's a bit messy because f$file_attributes signals an error if L a given file is locked. In that case it does a DIR/FULL - as I said, messy, M but it does let me know if setfilenomove needs running without going through c, the process of booting from a separate disk.   > Is this safe ?  N Good question. In theory those files which can't be processed by the SET FILE L command (as in setfilenomove.com) because they are locked _should_ be safe, J as DFO _should_ also see them as locked, and leave them alone. Not sure I M want to try that without a bit more analysis and extensive testing though...    N I can't see any problem with setting the NOMOVE bit on files which have newly L arrived on the system via PCSI, as they won't be used until the next reboot.  M > If so, it resolves my existing problem, and just leaves the issue of futuree) > patches for someone at Compaq to solve.s >  Yep. r   ___l
 Paul Sture Switzerlandu   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 04:18:03 -0800* From: juanr@ctad.co.uk (Susana Villanueva) Subject: File Organisation help = Message-ID: <311b5884.0111120418.70fed521@posting.google.com>h  F Hello I'm very new in this and haven't got much clue, so probably thisD question will sounds very silly but I would appreciatte it any help.  E At uni we are learning about file organisation and have been given an D exercise to do.  I've got an sample of VMS Commands and their outputE showing the way in which a simple VMS text file is stored.  I need to,F study and describe the precise method used for storing each text line.  F I've got a bunch of characters and its hexadecimal value.  And haven'tB got much ideas.  Any help would be more than welcome here or to my email (juanr@ctad.co.uk).-  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:30:49 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n# Subject: Re: File Organisation helpr, Message-ID: <3BEFC0F6.6D6C7E02@videotron.ca>   Susana Villanueva wrote:G > At uni we are learning about file organisation and have been given anoF > exercise to do.  I've got an sample of VMS Commands and their outputG > showing the way in which a simple VMS text file is stored.  I need to.H > study and describe the precise method used for storing each text line.    There are many ways to do this.   M The "default" native way for VMS is to use variable length records. Two bytes K containing the record length are followed by the actual text for that line.oG This makes it possible to include any character in the line including a1 carriage return.  K But you can also have unix-style files with lifefeeds characters delimitingW
 each line.  J The type of record attribute is store in the file header (DIR/FULL to viewM it). And when an application opens the file, the operating system through its N record management system transparently provides the data to the application in a way in which it expects it.d  M So a C program would just see text with the newline character between recordseH even though internally, it is stored differently with the 2 byte header.  M You can also ANA/RMS/FDL/OUTPUT=SYS$OUTPUT to look at the file atributes. YouiM van use the FDL and the CONVERT utility to change the way the file is stored.n  G You can use SET FILE/ATTRIB=  to change the way VMS interprets the dataw3 without actually changing the data inside the file.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:37:07 -0500o* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>, Subject: Re: files with long lines in Pascal) Message-ID: <3BEFFAB3.9040906@compaq.com>e  E I just found this thread since Larry put Pascal in the title. Thanks!-  G Lets see if I can add some information to the various things I've seen.o  G 1) VARYING OF CHARs have a length word (65535), not a length byte (255)   F 2) When opening an existing file, the RTL should allocate the correct F sized buffer for the file.  When creating a new textfile, you can use H the optional RECORD_LENGTH parameter on the OPEN to provide for maximum ) record lengths beyond the default of 255.   F 3) For a variable-length text file, RMS decides when the record ends, F not Pascal or the RTL.  So if you have a VARYING [65535] OF CHAR, you I can read in a 8000 char record if you wish. If you want to read the file UE in "block mode", then you'll have to do your own RMS calls (or use a  / language like C whose RTL can do that for you).   A 4) Compaq Pascal is more than just for "teaching students".  The  H Extended Pascal standard and the other extensions in Compaq Pascal make # it suitable for large applications.p -- s John Reagan.' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderb   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:37:03 +0300 $ From: Sergey Tikhonov <tsv@solvo.ru>  Subject: Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY( Message-ID: <3BEF983F.6409B033@solvo.ru>   Hello,  \ Look at MTOOLS package on OpenVMS Freeware. It is port of mtools utilities from Unix to VMS. It does support long filenames.u  
 Thank you,   Dave Parsons wrote:r  [ > On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:44:30, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:e >gM > > >2) Do you know if there is a software/freeware that allow you to convert-I > > >from VMS to DOS.  I want to be able take files from an Alpha machinel > > runninge* > > >VMS 7.2 and use it on the NT machine. > >W+ > > ftp://ftp.madgoat.com/madgoat/mgpcx.zip0 >b@ > Does this restore the VMS long file name on the NT machine and3 > does it work NT to VMS also with long file names?e) > From the readmes, it doesn't appear to.n >sA > If not, does anyone know of any software to do this, preferablye > Y2K compatible.t >eA > I already use PCDISK but this does not preserve long file names C > and also is not Y2K compatible, well at least the version we haved > isn't. >. > Thanks > Dave   -- Sergey Tikhonovu
 Solvo Ltd. tsv@solvo.ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:15:37 +0100S= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>h@ Subject: Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted) Message-ID: <3BEF9339.FD6C534A@gtech.com>s   John Eisenschmidt wrote:J > Are we talking about what you have to use or what you have to work with? > W > As far as what you have to use, Java is as minimal as C. Look at Hello World in Java:e >  > public class HelloWorld { . >   public static void main( String Args[] ) {- >     System.out.println( "Hello World!\n" ); - >     System.exit( 0 );  // terminate program  >   }y > }  > 
 > And in C++:a >  > #include <iostream>e >  > using namespace std; >  > int main () {l# >         cout << "Hello World!\n";h >         return 0;w > }i   ????  0 That is practically the same for all languages !  @ I am ofcourse talking abouth what is available (specified in the
 standard).  G > On a Wintel PC the C++ Executable (release stripped) is 52K. The Java F >Class file is 1k. Now, I know that's just the byte code, and a lot of1 >the funk is in the JRE (which is 20k on Wintel),h   rt.jar is >13 MB !  D But I am also sure that the executable generated by C++ alaos relies on MB's of DLL's !  F >                                                   but you don't have, >to import 1000 classes if you don't want to   Import ?  @ You never import code in Java. The import statement only imports the namespace.  E >                                               - far less cruft than H >something like VB. Most of the 34MB that makes up JDK 1.3.1 are classes# >you can use, not that you have to.m  = Yep. That was what I was talking about. JDK provides far morer
 functionalityr than ANSI C or ANSI C++.  = Nobody are forcing you to use it. But some of it are usefull.    Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 08:11:54 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)7; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!r3 Message-ID: <IzvrTzInd11L@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  j In article <5.1.0.14.2.20011109162249.03843b60@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes: > J > Sorry, but I'll go back to what a college professor told use, many moons9 > ago: "This is UNIX.  If you want friendly, buy a dog!".0  G    Every time I tell my wife about UNIX, she complains we had better infB    the 80's, when she quit.  Now my kid has Linux and she sees for    herself I tell the truth.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 08:10:03 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!C3 Message-ID: <XPt9P5M5uCQA@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  n In article <GeZG7.74232$7x1.6518209@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  L > MS-DOS picked up at least somewhat on this idea.  But Unix has steadfastlyL > remained true to its 1970 origins, which is why much of the world views it- > as - well, kind of ridiculous in this area.m      1968o   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 08:23:24 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)F; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!o3 Message-ID: <bRkqfmq98i6A@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  W In article <1011109185319.354A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:l   > grep - global replace3  C    generate regular expression and parse (so howcome I know so muchs!    of this eunichs trivia?  Ugh.)u  D > type - type (but it means "category", not "print on the terminal")  ?    Recalls the winning VMS 1984 war story in Cincinatti, on the0H    creative use of DCL symbols.  Seems there was a not computer literateJ    secretary who was given access to the VAX to do her job.  An undergrad K    was sent to help her, his idea was let her do it the way she thought of -I    it.  He worked along the lines of "What do you need to do, what would "    you like to call that?"  So:D          make - create a new letter       update - alter a letterO9       type - on the "typewriter", or at least the printers-       file - put a letter in the file cabinetv7       down the hall - move to the room of file cabinets0  F    Things got more involved as she continued to get help from the same    fellow.    G    The speakers were involved in assisting her after the undergraduate oI    had left, and she called support because she had somehow put the room R=    of file cabinets in a drawer and couldn't get it back out.J      Or as best I recall.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:04:24 +0000r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-1 Subject: Re: HP merger: new take VMS to Agilent ?18 Message-ID: <oi7vutc17j7170buhg6ssbne1tco7811ok@4ax.com>  E On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:58:54 -0500, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  wrote:  - >In article <3BEE63F8.2D14D163@videotron.ca>,<0 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >qP >> Since HP stands for Hewlett Packard, I wonder if Mr Hewlett could force HP toM >> change its name because he no longer wants his name to be associated with   >> what  >> HP wants to do.   >i" >I don't think so.  Isn't he dead?  F The co-founder might be but his son Walter Hewlitt is very much alive,D a director of HP and the leader in the fight against the takeover of= Compaq. Doubt he could force a name change on his own though.u -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 09:08:45 -0800) From: ben_yates_iii@yahoo.com (Ben Yates)n1 Subject: HSJ FMU show last most - stupid questions= Message-ID: <154d1183.0111120908.7155abf2@posting.google.com>C  C Why is it when doing a show last most from FMU on the HSJ, the mosti* recent error NEVER shows a date/timestamp?D Doing a show last all, the 2nd entry on down has a date/timestamp...F We just had two disks drop out of two different shadowsets, the commonC bond being they were both on HSJ09 (HSJ50s), so it would be nice to C see if the last error was around the same time. The 2nd most recent- was two months ago. D Suppose I could go through the effort to take the Power on Time fromE the 2nd and the 1st and do the math to see when the most recent entryC occurred...o  $ BTW: Firmware Version is V57J(01)...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:00:27 -0000o8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>Y Subject: RE: Insufficient Virtual Memory when Linking a Fortran Program (Alpha VMS 7.1-2)oN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF0F0@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  : Compile with /SEPARATE and the problem may well disappear.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)1   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 07:57:02 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o Subject: Re: LIB$xxx3 Message-ID: <xgQDfDQvuRRX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   F In article <1103_1005303049@pcw190>, nospammer <no@spammer.dk> writes: > Folks, >  > A foolish question.f >  > Since we have LIB$FIND_FILE and LIB$DELETE_FILE and LIB$RENAME_FILE, I would like to know why there is no LIB$COPY_FILE ?  Since it is clear that the LIB$ routines ^ > intentionally provide access to basic file operations, it seems incomplete without the COPY. >   G    Use the convert routines (look at the end of the LIB$ RTL document),y    but specify no conversion.  e  M    Then remember OS/360/?? where COPY was a CLIST for IEBGENR (IBM speak for a)    convert), but specified no conversion.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:14:52 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: LIB$xxx+ Message-ID: <3BEFD95B.C36EB27@videotron.ca>>   Bob Koehler wrote:N >    Then remember OS/360/?? where COPY was a CLIST for IEBGENR (IBM speak for+ >    convert), but specified no conversion.a  D But IEBGENER was just a copy, right. Wasn't it some other utility to/ load/create some VSAM file ? (was it idcams ?) y  H I still remember when I moved to VMS being very impressed that you couldL create an indexed file just by running your cobol program which would create2 it if it didn't exist with the right keys etc etc.G You could even, initially, open a file for I/O even though it was beingeK created (empty), but a later version removed that capability to comply withe ansi standards !   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 07:42:08 -0800* From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) Subject: logins disabled< Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0111120742.74d32662@posting.google.com>  9 Remote (dial-up) logins are disabled on weekends when sete logins/inter=0.cF When logging in via a modem the user is asked for a Decserver passwordF and once entered the user is given a password> prompt and thats as far
 as logins go.+  B If logins are set to 1 the password> prompt is gone and logins are allowed.? uaf>modify system_password="123456" or "" doesn't seem to work. = anything entered at the password> prompt seems to be ignored.s  F When the backups run each day the script terminates users, changes theF logins to zero and changes the welcome.txt to backups running , please login later.? During the week the users can dial in fine when the backups are D running, on weekends, no one can dial-in until logins are enabled. IC don't think this has anything to do with user account login primarytF and secondary days as the system doesn't know the user profile as they= have not logged in yet. Is there somewhere to set system wide A availability before user account profiles are taken into account?   E How does set logins/inter=0 and the password prompt> work? Is there alE file or utility that can be used to enable it properly or disable it?aE The system is running OpenVMS 6.2 since August 1999 and this has only  been happeing since Oct 2001.,  * Please reply to victor.mendham@emergis.com   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 08:07:23 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)9 Subject: Re: MMS & ODS5.3 Message-ID: <McnFV9qlpnOQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3BEBF5F8.38017391@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>, Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> writes:e	 > Hi all,  > I >  I just noticed that MMS fails on a ODS5 disk when the file is in lowere > case:m >   H    We've been able to work around all the problems we've found of using #    MMS and CMS with ODS-5 except 2:i  F       CMS show history command requires quoted names to return historyC       of not-all-caps elements.  (CMS was updated for extended fileh1       names, but this seems to have been missed.)   F       MMS can't parse names requiring ^, causes a variety of problems.B       I've seen it conclude it had a loop in the dependencies, tryA       to invoke CDD (not installed here), or simply not recognizes       the file type.  H    The key to working around file name case in MMS has often been to useG    f$parse to get the correct name case, such as needed for Java.  ThisV?    can cause a simple one line action to become multiple lines.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:47:15 GMTx( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>! Subject: New website: OpenVMS.orgt@ Message-ID: <DpQH7.105953$jq6.23689912@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>   Greets everyone,  E I've just put up a new website:  OpenVMS.org, http://www.openvms.org.(  K Many of you familiar with Tru64.org will recognize the look and feel.  It's1L primary purpose is to act as a portal for VMS users with the latest news andE information.  Industry news will be posted daily.  I've also included L discussion forums.  Employers and potential employees can post job offeringsK and resumes.  In addition I have started a monthly newsletter for those whodB can't visit the site daily.  My wish is the community will find itI informative and useful.  I will be adding several pages over the next fewi weeks so visit often.'  I I will be running surveys on occasion.  If anyone would like to suggest ah$ topic and questions send them to me.  K Vendors can contact me directly with company name, contact info and a brief- description of your product(s).   1 Feel free to send me any comments or suggestions.m   Kene  L PS - There is a survey running at Tru64.org, http://www.tru64.org, that manyL of you may wish to participate in.  It involves a follow-up to the Alpha-IPFB transition survey and has questions directly related to VMS users.   -- Ken Farmer, kfarmer@OpenVMS.orgp# OpenVMS.org, http://www.openvms.orgl OpenVMS.org Newsletter:.= http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-Registrations   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:23:29 -0500 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>wN Subject: Re: Rob's British Champion, was: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking2 Message-ID: <6czvO9ELUP54QGtp5nx9NOwj5TUp@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:55:42 -0500, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:c >sO >> Hmmm.  Now that you mention it.  Andrew hasn't been heard from here in quited >> a while.t >> w+ >> Not to look a gift horse in the mouth..., >eJ >Actually, I miss him.  At least with Andrew I didn't have to feel bad if F >I typed before thinking and flamed him.  If I thought that he didn't H >deserve it for that instance, I was sure that there was something that 8 >deserved it, so no qualms.  When you felt like kicking . >someone/something, Andrew was available.  :-) >UH >Unfortunately for us VMS bigots, sometimes he had some rather accurate + >things to say that we didn't want to hear.  >rH >Guess the downturn in the economy must have caused Sun to do away with  >their FUDsters.  :-)y >a >Daveh  A     That may be true, but Sun's stock is starting to climb again.oD It was around 12 the last time I checked and I think it bottomed-out at just under nine.l  E     Then again, with the way thingd have been going with Compaq, they E can just as easily shoot themselves in the foot without any help from-! the FUDsters at IBM, Sun, et. al.r   David R. Beattyu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:56:22 -0500 4 From: John Malmberg <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> Subject: Re: samba on VAX 4 Message-ID: <3BEFE316.8070203@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>   John Santos wrote:,  > On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Carl M Fulton wrote:  >  G >>I am trying to install Samba on a VAX 4500 VMS 6.2 with Multinet 4.2.     C I am guessing that you are either installing SAMBA 1.19.? or SAMBA  ) 2.0.3, or do you have some other variant?V  I Samba 2.0.6 currently seems to require the OpenVMS 7.0 C runtime library yG   or later.  Someone enterprising with a very SMOP could get it runningo" on OpenVMS 5.5-2 and later though.  A Please also do not abreviate system names either.  Sometimes the a abreviation given is ambigous.   >>I keep getting the following9 >>%RMS-W-RTB, 512 byte record too large for user's buffer 8 >>whenever I try to edit a large file or run a com file.A >>I am a novice and don't know what I need to change to fix this.a >>Help anyone?8 >>Also a decent install page on the web would help lots! >> > * > The VMS FAQ, under question SOFT1, says: >  > A > P.S. If you find more info somewhere else, please post its URL,e/ > since I'll probably be looking soon!  Thanks.     < Try http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/samba/     Or just look on the CD-ROM.1   -John, malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq Personal Opinion Onlyw   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:05:11 GMTw* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <HwKH7.147173$tb2.12201313@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>g  / Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message 2 news:omJH7.5392$o16.285334@typhoon2.gnilink.net... >s7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea> > news:cXHH7.111557$7x1.8994628@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > >,3 > > Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message H > > > Do you think people are weak minded fools who must be protected by yourI > > > brilliant comments which are the same over and over and over again?  > >eK > > You certainly appear to be a fool, but more obstinate than weak-minded.  >eL > Got it - in the world of Bill Todd anyone who sees things differently from9 > the great sage Todd is a weak-minded or obstinate fool.o  L No, just a few, like yourself.  I enjoy discussions with (and learning from)C people whose viewpoints differ from my own, when they actually havea@ something more substantive than unfounded opinion to contribute.   ...s   > > OnJ > > the other hand, there are always newcomers to worry about who might beH > > seduced by some of slicker snake-oil being so liberally applied, and there\0 > > may yet be others still sitting on the fence > J > As I suspected you see people as being to weak minded to be able to drawG > there own conclusions and must shout down the anyone who has not beenh > blessed with your insight.  I Is the word 'newcomers' strange to you?  It has nothing to do with mentalaL capacity, but just means people not up to speed on the on-going discussion -G and quite likely thus also not in a very good position to differentiates! between substance and propaganda.t  I Seems to me that you believe anyone who persists in disagreeing with yourtI own viewpoint is guilty of shouting.  Not that I particularly care - it's I just another example of your apparent inability to respond on the issues.    > I > I thought Terry's Taliban analogy references were a little over the topm but?I > it does appear to me at this point he has correctly identified behaviora thatJ > is about as rational and open to the concept of alternate points of view as > the Taliban's behavior.h  I Guess analytical ability isn't your strong suit either.  But you might atoI least take a look at the results of the poll Terry took at tru64.org thisiK summer if you'd like to see where the preponderance of opinion on the AlphaoD question lies:  while the majority isn't *always* right, it at least deserves to be listened to.0  J The same, incidentally, applies to the question of Afghanistan:  while theK majority in the U.S. still (as of now - but of course early support for therG Vietnam war was similarly pervasive) supports the way we're going aboutcJ things, *world* opinion (including people we normally consider friends, asI evidenced by the discussions right here in c.o.v. a month or so ago) is a G lot less solidly behind us.  And since this is playing out on the worldIL stage rather than internally in the U.S., world opinion is entirely relevantJ (not be mention the difficulty of avoiding national bias in our own views, given the circumstances).v   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 04:04:22 -0500w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BEF9095.79011273@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote:sM > I thought Terry's Taliban analogy references were a little over the top buthN > it does appear to me at this point he has correctly identified behavior thatM > is about as rational and open to the concept of alternate points of view as- > the Taliban's behavior.      Got another one:  M Winkler is a terrorist because he is out to destroy VMS and force a MicrosofttK dictatorship on all Compaq customers.  The USA should bomb Compaq's houstoncN headquarters out of existance, and let the former Tandem and Digital divisionsJ decide on a democratic governance of their company with the UN providing a: shield to prevent Microsoft from taking back that company.  L The USA should also sign the landmine eradication treaty and as soon as thisN is done, should order Microsoft to remove distributing products that are laced with land mines.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:49:26 GMTe& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <WjRH7.5468$o16.296352@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageo= news:HwKH7.147173$tb2.12201313@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...pK > Is the word 'newcomers' strange to you?  It has nothing to do with mentalnA > capacity, but just means people not up to speed on the on-goinge discussion -I > and quite likely thus also not in a very good position to differentiated# > between substance and propaganda..  I If the strength of your position it is so strong (to point where you feeloJ you can refer to people who do not hold position as fools) then you shouldG be able to just post it and let its stand on its own merit.  Instead of F attempting to put forth your position, and let folks make up there ownG minds, we often find you flaying away, in a highly emotional manner, atRL anyone who disagrees with.  If you did trust in the judgement of people, andH didn't see them as fools, you would just periodically post your point ofJ view and let them make up their own mind.  The justification you claim forG what your doing is protect the newbie.  If that is so you can post yourn+ opinion its own thread on a periodic basis.t  K By lashing out and trying to shout down everyone who disagrees with you alleK that you appear to be doing is using the newbie as an excuse to carry on assK a bitter ex Digital employee who is no longer involved with the technology.c  I Get a life Bill - put your Digital days behind you - if you can't I wouldf suggest seeking help...f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:02:28 -0500-( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BEFD674.3080206@tsoft-inc.com>   Jeff Killeen wrote:o  9  > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message o< news:cXHH7.111557$7x1.8994628@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...  >    >3  >> Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messagee  >>.D  >>> Do you think people are weak minded fools who must be protectedD  >>> by your brilliant comments which are the same over and over and  >>>  over again?s  @ Have to ask, does repetition make truth any less true?  Does the= harshness of a statement have any bearing on it's legitimacy?e  G I do deplore the attacks on Terry, and have advised Bill several times c4 that a 'friendlier' approach may be better received.  H However, more than a few people are very, very, VERY upset with actions > that they perceive to gross incompetance and stupidity.  When E reiteration of some 'justification' of incompetance and stupidity is rG repeated, then repeating a rebuttal of the 'justification' is entirely 0B proper.  I for one wouldn't want the 'big lie' to be perceived as C reality just because of being constantly repeated without rebuttal.:  F Without going into too much detail, I'll just reiterate a few numbers:  # IBM (continuing with POWER4) - $114:- Compaq (abdicating to the wintel cartel) - $72  E And ask, if you were given a commitment from the above two entities, :' which would you believe, IBM or Compaq?    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:30:33 GMTI4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org< Message-ID: <JOSH7.17754$I6.4371753@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messageo& news:3BEFD674.3080206@tsoft-inc.com... > Jeff Killeen wrote:S >o: >  > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message> > news:cXHH7.111557$7x1.8994628@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >  > >: >  >5 >  >> Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message  >  >>:F >  >>> Do you think people are weak minded fools who must be protectedF >  >>> by your brilliant comments which are the same over and over and >  >>>  over again?  >nB > Have to ask, does repetition make truth any less true?  Does the? > harshness of a statement have any bearing on it's legitimacy?i >?H > I do deplore the attacks on Terry, and have advised Bill several times6 > that a 'friendlier' approach may be better received. >iI > However, more than a few people are very, very, VERY upset with actionsg? > that they perceive to gross incompetance and stupidity.  WheneF > reiteration of some 'justification' of incompetance and stupidity isH > repeated, then repeating a rebuttal of the 'justification' is entirelyC > proper.  I for one wouldn't want the 'big lie' to be perceived asaE > reality just because of being constantly repeated without rebuttal.1 >4H > Without going into too much detail, I'll just reiterate a few numbers: >k% > IBM (continuing with POWER4) - $114l/ > Compaq (abdicating to the wintel cartel) - $7s >eF > And ask, if you were given a commitment from the above two entities,) > which would you believe, IBM or Compaq?  >   J It is intuitively obvious that IBM is a big beneficiary of Compaq's recent strategic decisions.  E As a longtime Alpha advocate I too was dismayed about the decision totJ scuttle the architecture. Especially in light of the fact that I was doingL Alpha futures pitches to CPQ audiences as recently as one month pre-Trees (IJ wasn't alone, there's plenty of Alpha marketeers sporting albumin on their countenances these days, too).  K Rightly or wrongly, Alpha's dead. Get over it. No amount of 20-20 hindsight  will change this fact.  H I continue to maintain that a decade of marketing malfeasance and stupidK strategy tricks ensured Alpha's ultimate oblivion. And while I'm not a mathvK major, I can do the math when it comes to apportioning an annual ~$250M R&DsK and infrastructure cost across an annual run rate of perhaps half a million  processors.s  K Of course, that's just my opinion, and there's plenty of divergent opinionscH out there. Whatever your opinion happens to be, why not register same atL www.tru64.org. The results of the current survey (and some follow-on surveysJ which will be available within the next several weeks) will be seen by CPQ? management, which is more than can be said for Usenet postings.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:46:05 GMTk& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <h1TH7.5633$o16.301092@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagea& news:3BEFD674.3080206@tsoft-inc.com...I > However, more than a few people are very, very, VERY upset with actionst? > that they perceive to gross incompetance and stupidity.  WhenaF > reiteration of some 'justification' of incompetance and stupidity isH > repeated, then repeating a rebuttal of the 'justification' is entirelyC > proper.  I for one wouldn't want the 'big lie' to be perceived asaE > reality just because of being constantly repeated without rebuttal.y  I If there is such validity to the point of view there is no reason for the L highly emotional attacks against virtually every posting that has a contraryG point of view.  The counterpoint point of view can be posted in its own-J thread - and if needed on a constant basis.  Let the readers decide.  BillJ can post the Bill Todd wit and wisdom FAQ on Alpha and Compaq once an hour for all I care.o  H What appears to happening here is a bitter attack by ex Digital employeeJ attempting to shout down any point of view that does match the sage Todd'sI point of view.  He is more than welcome to present his point of view.  HepK does not need to trash every thread that is at odds with his viewpoint.  HelI can allow those who have viewpoints different from his to flush out theiroH viewpoint without his bitter attacks.  It clearly has the effect of justF having people walk away rather than put up with it.  It is more than aE little disingenuous of Mr. Todd to suggest what he is doing is in thelH interest of making sure people are inform when he trashes any discussionL that does not agree with his point of view thus blunting its development andL information sharing.  Let him put forth his point of view in his own threads and let the readers decide.r  K Of course this assumes that the sage Todd's viewpoint can stand up on theirs
 own merit.  I I would have a lot more respect for the man if he was currently a user of,J Alpha technology.  For we know he may have a vested commercial interest inI IBM or Sun at this point in time - or worse may be an ex Digital employeesI who never found work involving significant responsibility (e.g. 3rd shiftm operator)...   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:21:15 +0000 (UTC)s From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <9sp3ur$lbq$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>i  a In article <ruEH7.5156$o16.275720@typhoon2.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:.   Jeff,n  @ Why pick on Bill ? Terry is in the wrong for reposting this poor5 excuse for an explanation of why Compaq dumped Alpha. B I read it today and pretty much agree with everything Bill posted.0 Note. I am very much interested in VMS's future.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  L >Bill you have become a broken record adding nothing new and trying to shout$ >down anyone who disagrees with you. >sJ >More importantly by your own admission you have no current investments inK >this technology and your only interest seems to be that of a disillusioned)5 >former Digital employee with a chip on his shoulder.d >mK >Why do you keep it up since you are not a current user of this technology?tH >Do you think people are weak minded fools who must be protected by yourD >brilliant comments which are the same over and over and over again? >a >n6 >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message> >news:JDvH7.138368$tb2.11256158@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... >>; >> Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message A >> news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111102342060.15684-100000@world.std.com...o >> >E >> > I just put together a special issue of Shannon Knows Compaq that-	 >contains-B >> > three articles on Compaq's IPF Consolidation. Included in theI >> > free-for-the-downloading PDF are a discussion of why Compaq opted toEM >> > scuttle Alpha, an explanation of why things were done as they were (e.g.0A >> > why publish an Alpha obituary three or four years before the 
 >architecture2B >> > shuffles off its mortal coils), and what's behind the current) >> > unavailability of IPF-based systems.u >>K >> Despite your introductory statement that "finally details are emerging",7G >> this is largely a re-hash of the bullshit that Compaq (and you) werePI >> spreading so liberally just after June 25th.  Why you expect anyone too >findr8 >> it any more believable this time around is not clear. >>G >> If "Compaq - and Digital before it - invested heavily in a series ofrJ >> misguided marketing campaigns", they must have been so 'misguided' that >theH >> results appeared only in places like the Australian outback.  Can you >pointJ >> to any external evidence of such 'heavy' expenditures?  We do know that >theJ >> marketing budget for VMS in Y2K was about $13 million (which presumablyL >> includes salaries, though it's not clear who would have merited them), soM >> the 'heavy' funding sure wasn't spent there.  In the same year Compaq as a G >> whole spent $385 million on *advertising* (not including things likeqJ >> salaries and promotions that the term 'marketing budget' encompasses) - >andJ >> while Alpha and Tru64 probably received a bit more of that than VMS didK >> (though I've always suspected that some of the VMS funding, chicken feed K >> though it was, got siphoned off into more generic Alpha promotion, sincef >youL >> can buy an awful lot more blinking balls for a few mill than seem to haveM >> gotten handed out) without actual numbers and expense sheets (or copies of5L >> the ads that appeared with indications of where and how often) I'm afraidL >> I'll just have to file this 'explanation' in the same wastebasket of crap >sot0 >> many of Compaq's other pronouncements occupy. >>G >> Of course, it *is* possible to squander significant amounts of moneye >withoutL >> visible effect if you're sufficiently incompetent.  That's one reason whyL >> the magnum opus our group sent to Curly contained specific suggestions inI >> this area, but we sure as hell know that *those* never got implementedi >(thenH >> VMS Web pages did improve, but that was  a) already under way and  b) >hardlycI >> a significant expenditure).  But Compaq has demonstrated at least somet >levelD >> of competence in advertising over the years, which makes it a bit
 >difficultE >> to believe that their Alpha promotional efforts would have been sol
 >invisible >> had they really been trying.  >>E >> Not to mention the fact that Alpha remained the corporation's mostmM >> profitable franchise.  So if the ad campaigns actually existed and weren'teJ >> effective, then, by George, a company interested in profitability would >have J >> tried something else - possibly figuring out that the existing customer >basetK >> which was happy to support the products even in the absence of effectiveyF >> advertising might have a useful suggestion or two.  The explanation >offeredJ >> to you is pathetic, and your unquestioning acceptance of it equally so. >>L >> It is interesting that you say the Alpha 'soul searching' began about twoK >> years ago, since that's about the time of the Pfeiffer/Curly transition. I >> Which makes one suspect that the decision may have had a hell of a lotd >moreeG >> to do with corporate politics than with anything substantive, but ofa >coursea; >> one can't know unless some inside mole chooses to speak.s >>K >> Then you have the gall to reiterate that "escalating costs and dwindlingiJ >> performance differentation rendered the Alpha business unsustainable in >theM >> long term".  This is just as much crap as it was when you tried to palm itiL >> off in July:  do you really think people have forgotten why by now, or it >isaG >> just the 'big lie' philosophy at work in the hope that the truth hase >gotten  >> a bit tired?w >>J >> Here's a hint:  if costs were indeed escalating, quantify that.  By allC >> accounts I've heard from the engineers EV8 was on track for botho >performanceG >> and delivery date, and over the years Alpha development has remained I >> admirable stable in both progress and costs (save when it's been being L >> fucked over by upper management) - and has *easily* been justified by theL >> profits Alpha systems have generated.  I won't repeat my entire July 19thI >> rebuttal from comp.arch et al. here, but it remains as valid as it dide1 >> then - and your contentions remain as vacuous.- >>L >> And given that Compaq's 'misguided advertising' experience had supposedlyH >> already suggested that it wasn't *just* performance that sold Alphas, >that'saF >> a pretty definite indication that some temporary - or even possiblyJ >> permanent - erosion in this area would hardly be fatal.  Not that Alpha >wasJ >> in any danger from IA64 in that area:  POWER4 was and still is the onlyL >> credible 64-bit competitor (though Hammer could possibly become one), andI >> its choice of CMP over SMT could well have left EV8 with advantages ini >boths? >> chip area and power consumption if not absolute performance.f >>M >> Moving right along, we get into some really mealy-mouth wording in the EV8eK >> section.  First, you say Compaq concluded that "Alpha would maintain its K >> performance superiority through the EV7 processor generation", then thath >theM >> "EV8 chip was expected to outperform all rivals".  Gee, I guess that meanstJ >> that Alpha was expected to maintain its performance superiority through >EV8, 3 >> not just EV7 - i.e., for the foreseeable future.l >>M >> Then we have "The EV8 program required significant incremental developmenteC >> resources, and its success was predicated on timely and flawlesss >delivery".SL >> This in the face of an IA64 product that required *humongous* incrementalM >> development resources, was 4 years late (5 years if you don't count MercedsK >> because it's a joke that no one is using commercially), and nothing likew >theL >> processing powerhouse it was promoted as:  if Intel can justify continuedJ >> IA64 development, then there's no way in hell that Compaq can't justify) >> developing as good a product as Alpha.i >>I >> I really hope that one of the former Alpha engineers will address youroI >> 'anecdotal evidence' that SMT would have cost a full GHz:  I certainlyh >neverK >> heard mention of any problem of that sort and I certainly wouldn't trust @ >> your Compaq sources to know, let alone be truthful, about it. >>K >> And your artful juxtaposition in the phrase "EV8 was projected to have a,A >> marginal advantage over then-current IBM and Intel processors"y
 >conveniently H >> obscures the fact that the *only* Intel processors able to make Alpha >breakF >> a sweat are, and would have continued to be, 32-bit processors, not >Itanic:D >> EV6 makes Merced a joke (have you forgotten the 'smoking brick of
 >death'?),L >> EV7 will make McKinley a joke (any lessening of the difference in SPECintK >> numbers will be more than erased in real-world commercial performance by G >> EV7's on-chip memory and MP support), and Intel hasn't even unveileda >*plans*J >> for a processor beyond the McKinley/Madison/Deerfield core (so we can'tD >> specify what EV8 would have made a joke of, though the Alpha team >transplant-C >> eventually may help at least reduce the volume of the laughter).  >>G >> By contrast, the 'Chips are Down' section actually raises some validu >points,J >> but then proceeds to completely misinterpret their significance.  It isJ >> indeed the case that "modern servers are increasingly differentiated byM >> metrics such as latency, bandwidth, RAS features, NUMA implementation, and M >> system balance" - but EV7, due to its on-chip glue, has *vast* superiorityhG >> in latency, bandwidth, NUMA performance, and system balance over anyl >ItaniceC >> yet talked about by Intel, which translates to at least a 3-yeart >head-starteJ >> in those areas over any IA64-based server.  And had you included 'powerL >> consumption' in the list as you should have, Alpha's continuing advantage >isiM >> even greater.  But now, Compaq must compete either with a dead-ended Alpha M >> platform or a laughable Itanic platform against POWER4 on the high end andtJ >> Hammer on the low end, both of which have on-chip glue similar to EV7's >and  >> reasonable power consumption. >>J >> But it's back to weasel-wording in the next section, where you have the >gall0L >> to suggest that Compaq evaluated Itanic and POWER4 in anything resembling >anbM >> even-handed manner and found POWER4 wanting because, even though Itanic iso >aK >> complete slug by virtue of massively-flawed design assumptions that will-A >> weigh it down forever in commercial (vs. floating-point-style)i >applications,I >> "Intel is an undisputed leader in process technology".  The use of theo >wordqG >> 'an' keeps the rationale merely completely misleading rather than an F >> outright lie - since of course IBM is also 'an undisputed leader in >processL >> technology', so when comparing Itanic to POWER4 that's a wash rather than >> any telling Intel advantage.- >>D >> And finally we have 'the essence of Alpha'.  If Intel will indeed
 >"leverageI >> Compaq's expertise in glueless multiprocessing, high bandwidth and lows@ >> latency CPU designs, symmetric multithreading, and chip-basedL >> multiprocessing", then all the more reason to believe that *Compaq* couldL >> have leveraged them in Alpha effectively as well - with at least a 3-yearI >> head-start over their potential appearance on the decks of the Itanic.. >AndK >> since POWER4 and Hammer appear to have about the same lead in several ofMH >> these areas, Compaq is now left without *any* competitive platform to >fieldA >> (unless they can convince people to commit to a declared-dyingr >> architecture).  >>M >> Saying that "the game plan appears valid and defensible" sounds a lot likee >aE >> 3-year-old pronouncing the likely outcome of the next Presidentiali	 >election?J >> based on his parents' political leanings:  he may know the names of theJ >> candidates, but he has no clue about the mechanisms involved.  So whileH >> you've done a decent job of taking Compaq's June rationalizations andK >> dressing them up in soothing and superficially-convincing verbiage, it'ssH >> still utter crap.  If you believe it, you're a fool; if not, you're a >pimp. >>L >> I won't go into detailed deconstruction of your "Hasta la vista" article,L >> since it's based on the flawed premise that the migration off Alpha makesM >> some kind of sense and just goes down-hill from there.  But I will ask youtK >> to identify any Intel commitment to include *any* enhancements to ItanicaJ >> (which you seem to think are important upsides of the deal for Compaq -G >> though again this assumes that having VMS and Tru64 run on Itanic isqI >> worthwhile in the first place) that will make life easier for Compaq's' >OSs:tL >> I've seen absolutely no indication that Intel wants anything but to applyM >> the expertise of the Alpha team to keeping Itanic afloat, nor do I know ofhJ >> any specific tweaks that would be much help to VMS or Tru64 anyway (andM >> Itanic already incorporates the lock-step facilities that NSK needs).  Andu >IL >> will take exception to your characterization of EV8 as "a classic example >ofvM >> trouble waiting to happen":  that sounds a lot more like a classic examplea0 >> of an infomercial masquerading as journalism. >>	 >> - billy >> >> >> >  >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:45:04 -0500w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>&! Subject: Star wars in ascii art !a, Message-ID: <3BEFC44C.80CC5E80@videotron.ca>  
 telnet to:   towel.blinkenlights.nl  * make sure you have a good VT emulator :-)   ' Some guy put a lot of effort into this.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:28:40 -0500r5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>v! Subject: Re: TCIP Service UDP/TCPk2 Message-ID: <yc3vO5Lk77HhlSQp3zui2Y4Cjlpc@4ax.com>  0 You can't under V5.0.  It's supported under V5.1   David R. Beatty   = On 9 Nov 2001 12:49:37 -0800, jck_strw@yahoo.com (Jim) wrote:f   >Hi. >>
 >I'm running:S >i >TCPIP> show version >a: >  DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A@ >  on a COMPAQ AlphaServer DS10 466 MHz running OpenVMS V7.2     >oM >How can you set both the TCP and UDP protocol flags for a service?  I first h >issued the command: > Q >$ TCPIP set service kopd /port=8680 /protocol=tcp /process_name=kopd /user_name=i, >system /file=sys$common:[kinet.bin]kopd.exe >nM >I tried running a similar command, just changing the protocol flag, but I'm e >getting an error: >iQ >$ TCPIP set service kopd /port=8680 /protocol=udp /process_name=kopd /user_name=t, >system /file=sys$common:[kinet.bin]kopd.exe( >%TCPIP-E-INVRECORD, invalid information1 >-RMS-F-DUP, duplicate key detected (DUP not set)  >i0 >Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:40:48 -0500n* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>( Subject: Re: UNIX-like utilities for VMS) Message-ID: <3BEFFB90.7080302@compaq.com>d   Willy Jair wrote:a > Hi,a > < > Does any know where can I download the UNIX-like utilities) > for VMS? i.e. awk, sed, vi, cut ... etc  > 	 > Thanks,h > Willy Jair > wjair@hotmail.coms >   H Also check out the GNV package at gnv.sourceforge.net.  The versions of F sed, cut, etc. there have been "ported" to work on OpenVMS (for 'cut' G and 'sed', I just compiled them once I made the correct config.h file).r  F vi is a little tougher since vi (like more/less) uses termcap to play I with terminal screens.  We've ported 'less' to OpenVMS (you'll find that  I also at the GNV site).  For 'vi', we use the TPU emulation code that has i floated around.l  $ You can find gawk on the Freeware CD   -- n John Reagann' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaders   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:40:38 -0000 3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>n/ Subject: Re: Verify contents of the floppy diskm. Message-ID: <9sp50k$6b2$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>  1 "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> wrote in messagec% news:9sfuoq$2jf$1@news2.kornet.net...rL > I was able to mount the DOS floppy disk on an Apha machine running VMS 7.2L > using the /foreign option.  The I was able to copy a file from an Alpha to > this floppy.I > But I can't verify what's on the floppy.  It kept saying something like E > "Device is mounted as foreign".  I don't know what's all that mean?0 > Here is what I did$ >   $mount/foreign dva0: test floppy >   $copy myfile;1 floppyn >   $dir floppytG > This is where it gave me an error.  Does any one know how to do this?eG You can't see what's on the device, because you've mounted it /FOREIGN.O   Options:  
 How about:   $ COPY /WRITE_CHECKrF Same idea as MS-DOS VERIFY - data is read and checked after the write.) There is also a corresponding /READ_CHECK   : If you are looking for some sort of ID string on the disk:3 $ DUMP DVA0: /out=temp.file /BLOCKS=(block numbers)b $ OPEN infile temp.filerF then use $READ and get the identification data you need (easiest if it  is at a fixed point on the disk) $ CLOSE infile.w  = Something that probably won't work, but might be worth a try:o $ MOUNT /FOR DVA0:9 $ OPEN /READ DISK DVA0: ! Don't know if this will work...e' $ READ DISK SECTOR         ! or this...eB $! extract relevant information from SECTOR, or keep reading until! $! you get the appropeiate sectort $ CLOSE DISK  B Bear in mind that floppy disks are awful devices. They can lead toC system instability and crashes (so I have been repeatedly warned ),rI apparently because the drive can generate spurious interrupt signals whensH it encounters an error condition, which if not handled correctly, at the best,yF cause the floppy to go offline or ,at the worst, cause a system crash.  E I don't have much personal experience of using the floppy drive undero@ VMS. How common are such floppy reliability problems, especially with recent versions of VMS?  E Also: anyone in the UK know where I can get 5 1/4" floppies, or has arI stack of them in decent condition (hey, well, beggars can't be choosers!)oD that they no longer need? Both HD and DD: the DD ones for my AmstradB PC1512 and IBM PC XT, the HD ones for my DEC Professional 380 [TheJ Professional has an incomplete installation of P/OS on it, and I need someK disks to complete the installation - the ones I was using were thrown out].n  F I was tempted by someone selling 100 disks on eBay (allegedly[1] brandK new and shrink wrapped), but shipping them from the States was prohibitive)   	 -Malcolm.c  G [1] Shrink-wrapping machines are not too expensive, so caveat emptor...a
 as always.   > Thanks >  >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:26:23 +0200m& From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: VMS721_CLIUTL-0200 Status?i* Message-ID: <3BEFB1DF.D266BDB1@compaq.com>  H VMS721_CLIUTL V3.0 was just released. It contains modified CLIUTLMSG.EXE   Guyh   Rick Dyson wrote:g   > john nixon wrote:w > >oM > > Does anyone have a response to Rick's question.   This is very important.h >oC >         I have not heard anything and held off installing it yet.t >eK >         I have re-contacted someone from Compaq who had pointed me to the*D > released version of CLIUTL and inquired from him if he knew of any > confirmations. >n > Rick >-8 > > "Rick Dyson" <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> wrote in message' > > news:3BE70577.9F4CA7B6@UIowa.EDU... U > > > Does anyone know what the status of this ECO is?  I first had a problem findinghU > > > it (it is listed as a recommend companion of an INSTALL 1 ECO, VMS721_MOUNT96),b+ > > > but it then made it onto the servers.e > > >tT > > > However, there was a early report of it corrupting the QueManager (QUEMAN.EXE)" > > > displays (i.e., Show Queue). > > >hV > > > Can anyone else confirm this?  I just had a maintanence cycle early this morningQ > > > and skipped it for now, but would like to go back to it if it is OK or theye2 > > > fix any problems and release a v3.0 copy. :) > > >e > > > Regards, > > > Rick Dyson   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.630 ************************