1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 13 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 631       Contents: 2 VAX 6610 for sale  Re: 2 VAX 6610 for sale / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems D Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC BusinessD Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC Business anonymous ftp protection Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble - Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking (Memory) - Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking (Memory)  Re: Comparison of defragmenters D Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS Re: files with long lines  Re: files with long lines  Re: filesystem traces  free global pages 2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!P Re: Insufficient Virtual Memory when Linking a Fortran Program (Alpha VMS 7.1-2)" Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipments Jensen ie AXP 150  Re: Jensen ie AXP 150  Re: Jensen ie AXP 150 < MotifZone.net - the site for Motif Developers (monthly post)- OpenVMS o/s cd-rom insufficient quotas/limits 1 Re: OpenVMS o/s cd-rom insufficient quotas/limits 1 Re: OpenVMS o/s cd-rom insufficient quotas/limits @ OpenVMS v6.2 VAX drivers for Q-Bus SIMPAC 32/22, and 32/12 cards Re: PCL Printer control codes  SET FILE/STAT and clustersE Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org  Re: Star wars in ascii art ! Re: Star wars in ascii art ! Re: UNIX-like utilities for VMS  Re: VMS721_CLIUTL-0200 Status?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 12:11:49 -0800* From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) Subject: 2 VAX 6610 for sale< Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0111121211.597e921a@posting.google.com>  N Anyone want two VAX 6610's, make an offer, they could be going in the garbage. Location Toronto, Canada. L They haven't been used in two years, we just took them off our raised floor.   victor.mendham@emergis.com 906-707-4026   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:16:49 -0500 ! From: Anamika <hemanir@yahoo.com>   Subject: Re: 2 VAX 6610 for sale( Message-ID: <3BF04A51.2040402@yahoo.com>   Hello,'       Saw your post and Iam interested. @ Will you please give more details as to what it has in terms of  disk/net/mem etc.,. Iam in ottawa. BTW what do you want for them ?   Thanks,  -A   Vic Mendham wrote:  P > Anyone want two VAX 6610's, make an offer, they could be going in the garbage. > Location Toronto, Canada. N > They haven't been used in two years, we just took them off our raised floor. >  > victor.mendham@emergis.com > 906-707-4026 >    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 13:14:20 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111121314.1d37dace@posting.google.com>   a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87itcljeo8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>... ) > Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> writes:  > F > > I'm investigating the purchase of an AlphaServer DS10 or DS10L forH > > my own use.  I'd like to put plenty of memory in, but buying systemsB > > from Compaq pre-configured with lots of RAM costs lots of $$$.H > > Especially when you consider the purchase price of comparable memory > > for high-end PCs.  > D > The DS machines are limited to 2 or 4 GB by the chipset. Cost willA > be blown out by the odd ball memory you need; compare with good D > SIMMs and weep. Crucial or Kingston will have what you want. Don't  > pay the Compaq rip-off prices. > C > > Has anyone had experience of installing (cheaper) memory in the  > > AlphaServer DS systems?  >  > Some things never change...   L we use and have used every other dec compatible out there and have never hadI a memory problem, even when we mix brands ... we only buy dec memory when 8 we can find a good deal from a reseller ... don't worry!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:01:08 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) M Subject: Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC Business 7 Message-ID: <9157882A2warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>   B terryshannon@mediaone.net (Terry C. Shannon) wrote in <0DFH7.16650% $I6.3810246@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>:    > 7 >"Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message " >news:9sg1en$cgq$2@joe.rice.edu...@ >>     http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/061243.htmG >>     Analysts suggest HP could benefit by dropping out of PC business  >>I >>    "SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - If Hewlett-Packard Co. wants to clinch a K >>     controversial deal to buy Compaq Computer Corp., analysts say it may J >>     have to jettison the business that the combined companies aspire to$ >>     dominate: personal computers. > J >There might be something to be said for that. Peecees have incredibly lowI >margins, except for Intel and Microsoft. Makes you wonder why HP and CPQ B >bother with generic, commodity products that can be produced more >economically by Dell, et al!   H Since it seems that Compaq, HP and others (except DELL) compete in PC's G using roughly the same parts and sales model, what is left on which to  L compete?  Perhaps he who kisses Micro$oft's ass best gets the best discount I on Windows - and thus the better overall margins. Pucker up for profits,  9 because it ain't about technical prowess in PC's anymore.    ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2001 21:55 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) M Subject: Re: Analysts Suggest HP Could Benefit By Dropping Out Of PC Business - Message-ID: <12NOV200121555402@gerg.tamu.edu>   8 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes...7 }"Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message " }news:9sg1en$cgq$2@joe.rice.edu...@ }>     http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svfront/061243.htmG }>     Analysts suggest HP could benefit by dropping out of PC business  }>I }>    "SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - If Hewlett-Packard Co. wants to clinch a K }>     controversial deal to buy Compaq Computer Corp., analysts say it may J }>     have to jettison the business that the combined companies aspire to$ }>     dominate: personal computers. } J }There might be something to be said for that. Peecees have incredibly lowI }margins, except for Intel and Microsoft. Makes you wonder why HP and CPQ B }bother with generic, commodity products that can be produced more }economically by Dell, et al!   9 My suggestion for HP should the deal actually take place:   > Take the combined PC business and spin it off. They could even call it "Compaq".    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:39:51 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: anonymous ftp protection 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEAJDJAA.tom@kednos.com>   @ with tcpip5.1 under 7.3 I had to set the file protection to w:re> for both anonymous.dir and tcpip$ftp_anonymous.log following a@ reboot after a power failure, using the SET FILE.PROT=  command.  I As I have now learned, this is not persistent,  so where should I put it? I Should not the permissions have been properly set when it was configured? B If so, was this my error or does tcpip$config not do it correctly?   TIA  Tom    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:16:56 +0000 4 From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com>( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble. Message-ID: <3BF02028.15DC6315@baesystems.com>   Peter da Silva wrote:  > 0 > In article <3BEC23EA.7E0C1871@baesystems.com>,8 > Andrew Swallow  <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote:4 > > Mail servers can run for 6 months without anyone7 > > needing to give an order; then only to confirm that + > > the time does need adjusting by 1 hour.  > G > *REAL* mail servers can run without being touched for years, and only J > treat DST changes as a flag in the I/O routines when converting internal > time to human-readable form. > 0 That is defining the mail server as the computer5 program rather the entire machine.  I trust that only 1 one of the machines in the network needs a human  3 command, the rest receive it via the super cluster.  --  7 _______________________________________________________ + Andrew Swallow (7605) 2225   Cowes site, UK  andrew.swallow@baesystems.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:29:48 +0000 4 From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com>( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble. Message-ID: <3BF0232C.20851196@baesystems.com>   Carl Perkins wrote:  > : > Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> writes...' > }Lets bring in some marketing theory.  >  > Lets not.  >  > [...] 7 > }My view of HP is a seller of expensive oscilloscopes ! > }and other tools for engineers. : > }_______________________________________________________. > }Andrew Swallow (7605) 2225   Cowes site, UK > > > You are behind the times. HP does not produce oscilloscopes.? > HP does not produce tools for engineers other than computers, 5 > printers, and some other things along thoese lines.  > @ > That part of HP was spun of in 1999 and is now called Agilent. > F > Agilent is all the lab equipment (i.e. it's pretty much the original0 > HP) and HP is now just computer related stuff. > 
 > --- Carl  7 Double failure.  HP kept its old reputation and Agilent 
 is invisible.   6 Most consumer products have two big manufactures and a6 specialist.  Compaq may be one of the 2 but HP is not. Also a high profit level is 1%.  --  7 _______________________________________________________ + Andrew Swallow (7605) 2225   Cowes site, UK  andrew.swallow@baesystems.com    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 05:01:14 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble- Message-ID: <874rnzbt5x.fsf@prep.synonet.com>    anon<anon@anon.com> writes:   D > Both Fiorina and Capellas have told customer execs that NonStop is? > here to stay. Who would buy a company (Compaq), take its most C > successful and profitable division (NonStop products), and retire  > its products?   B Is he related to the Capellas who claimed a 25 year life for Alpha the week before he killed it?   4 Tandem/Nonstop and VMS folk, be afraid. Very afraid.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 17:06:39 -0500) From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) ( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble+ Message-ID: <9sph5f$iu5$1@panix1.panix.com>   . In article <3BF02028.15DC6315@baesystems.com>,6 Andrew Swallow  <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote: >Peter da Silva wrote: >>  1 >> In article <3BEC23EA.7E0C1871@baesystems.com>, 9 >> Andrew Swallow  <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote: 5 >> > Mail servers can run for 6 months without anyone 8 >> > needing to give an order; then only to confirm that, >> > the time does need adjusting by 1 hour. >>  H >> *REAL* mail servers can run without being touched for years, and onlyK >> treat DST changes as a flag in the I/O routines when converting internal  >> time to human-readable form.  >>  1 >That is defining the mail server as the computer 6 >program rather the entire machine.  I trust that only  E You must be from a Microsoft background.  It's not uncommon to find a I Unix or a VMS or (once upon a time) a TOPS-20 mail server happily sitting F around in some dusty corner of a university exchanging traffic _years_J after the last person who even knew how to log into it has left the staff.  I In fact, I know of at least one case in which such a machine was *bricked G up inside a wall* and kept running for several years before the problem  was noticed.   --  J Thor Lancelot Simon	                                      tls@rek.tjls.comL     And now he couldn't remember when this passion had flown, leaving him so1   foolish and bewildered and astray: can any man?  						   William Styron    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 17:08:26 -0500) From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) ( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble+ Message-ID: <9sph8q$j57$1@panix1.panix.com>   + In article <9sph5f$iu5$1@panix1.panix.com>, - Thor Lancelot Simon <tls@rek.tjls.com> wrote: / >In article <3BF02028.15DC6315@baesystems.com>, 7 >Andrew Swallow  <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote:  >>Peter da Silva wrote:  >>> 2 >>> In article <3BEC23EA.7E0C1871@baesystems.com>,: >>> Andrew Swallow  <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote:6 >>> > Mail servers can run for 6 months without anyone9 >>> > needing to give an order; then only to confirm that - >>> > the time does need adjusting by 1 hour.  >>> I >>> *REAL* mail servers can run without being touched for years, and only L >>> treat DST changes as a flag in the I/O routines when converting internal  >>> time to human-readable form. >>> 2 >>That is defining the mail server as the computer7 >>program rather the entire machine.  I trust that only  > F >You must be from a Microsoft background.  It's not uncommon to find aJ >Unix or a VMS or (once upon a time) a TOPS-20 mail server happily sittingG >around in some dusty corner of a university exchanging traffic _years_ K >after the last person who even knew how to log into it has left the staff.   E Okay, so a DEC 20 wouldn't sit around unnoticed for years -- that was F hyperbole, but only due to the sheer physical size of the hardware andF the volume of the sound it makes as it runs. :-)  Nonetheless, only inE the M$ world, as far as I know, is there a common perception that one H should need to periodically issue *any* command on a server in order for  it to continue running normally.   --  J Thor Lancelot Simon	                                      tls@rek.tjls.comL     And now he couldn't remember when this passion had flown, leaving him so1   foolish and bewildered and astray: can any man?  						   William Styron    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:37:01 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in troubleB Message-ID: <haYH7.127044$7x1.9717110@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  4 Thor Lancelot Simon <tls@panix.com> wrote in message% news:9sph5f$iu5$1@panix1.panix.com...m   ...   G > You must be from a Microsoft background.  It's not uncommon to find asK > Unix or a VMS or (once upon a time) a TOPS-20 mail server happily sittingtH > around in some dusty corner of a university exchanging traffic _years_L > after the last person who even knew how to log into it has left the staff. >HK > In fact, I know of at least one case in which such a machine was *brickediI > up inside a wall* and kept running for several years before the probleme > was noticed.  G That's a gem on a par with the Irish National Railway's 17-year up-timen* experience.  It deserves to be documented.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 05:54:53 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>6 Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking (Memory)- Message-ID: <87itcfac42.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  ( Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:  D > Could it be a beautiful day, if this memory would be compatible. I@ > could install ES40 1GB DIMMS in the DS20 and could get as many# > memory for that as I want (16GB).   < No you couldn't. The DS version of the chipset cripples your max memory size...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.s@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:57:14 -0800e" From: Brad Hughes <brad@tgsmc.com>6 Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking (Memory)) Message-ID: <3BF061DA.A3C2F6BF@tgsmc.com>P   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > * > Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes: > F > > Could it be a beautiful day, if this memory would be compatible. IB > > could install ES40 1GB DIMMS in the DS20 and could get as many% > > memory for that as I want (16GB).  > > > No you couldn't. The DS version of the chipset cripples your > max memory size...  > Care to expound on this a bit more?  We have a large CPU-bound? application running on an Alphastation 500/500 w/ 1GB of memoryr@ that I put on a DS10 with 2GB of memory and it runs >50% slower.  A Not  what one would expect, but if there are memory access issuesa it might make more sense.a   Brad   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:43:59 GMTi3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)e( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters. Message-ID: <jwWH7.20$M3.79@news-srv1.fmr.com>  
 Hi Robert,  9 My version of the hobbyist set *does* have a DFG license.I  H It is the third licesnse listed (not in alphabetical order), between the9 "VAXCLUSTER" license, and the "OPENVMS-HOBBYIST" license.-   --Brad   In article <rdeininger-1011011201340001@user-2iveakc.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:-K >In article <3BE9661D.650C07@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>e >wrote:  >nJ >> I've missed the original poster of this question seems ours news server% >> is short of space for articles :-(t >> o9 >> Someone asked about DFO vs. PerfectDisk vs. Diskeeper.- >> - >> I have not used DFO.- >-N >I have used DFO for the past several years, and Diskeeper about 10 years ago. >(F >DFO does a good job defragmenting files and consolidating free space,G >provided you give it time to work.  Its job is much easier if there isfI >plenty of free space; if a disk is more than 90% full or so, progress ish >slow. > P >DFO can limit its usage of CPU time and Is per second to user-specified values. >cB >If you can take a disk off line for a few minutes so that DFO hasK >exclusive access, it can defragment the index file.  This saves re-initingV' >a disk just to get a clean index file.0 >0K >DFO will try to improve the placement of DORMANT and FREQUENT files if youe >ask it to.  >aH >The full version of DFO includes a scheduler that can run defragmentingI >jobs according to your needs.  I typically never look at DFO except wheno: >adding or removing a disk.  It just takes care of itself. >hC >The last time I checked prices, DFO was significantly cheaper than D >Diskeeper.  For sites with the CSLG or the educational licences (orG >similar) DFO is "free".  Alas, the Hobbyist set does not include a DFOa	 >license.2 >  >--  >Robert Deininger@ >rdeininger@mindspring.com   Bradford J. Hamilton  bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work)2  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's".   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 05:59:56 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>M Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width - Message-ID: <87eln3abvn.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:s  H > > Well, o.k. Understand what you're asking for here. In VMS terms, ...   H > As I've pointed out before, the NEWSRDR program, which has a very VMS D > look and feel (similar to VMS MAIL---which of course also has the H > edit-long-lines problem), has no problem in this area, so it can't be  > THAT difficult.h  K Or TECO, and it can/could delete back over a line ending with no trouble...p   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.h@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:03:46 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>M Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthg- Message-ID: <87adxrabp9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  1 Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes:n  E > > Strongly agree.  It's embarressing in front of my U*x colleagues.d  nH > As well as an inconvenient in practice (he adds as an afterthought :^)  C You should not be, Unix's terminal code can't edit anything to save/A it life! Most of the shells can, but that does not help the otherf? applications. The TT driver one line edit was done so there wast; still some editing for apps when DCL is out of the picture.r  2 The editing in DCL is another whole ball of wax...   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:06:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>M Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthi- Message-ID: <87668fabk0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>k  ) Steve Thompson <smt@twcny.rr.com> writes:o  7 > Right. Pet peeve. This was unacceptable from day one.k  < But it was not a day one problem :) It only became a problem; when it was added cause all you ungratfull wretches bitchedwE that you could not edit program input like you could at a DCL prompt.e  ) (or at least that's how I remember it...)n   -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.u@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:22:01 +10302/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>.M Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthr/ Message-ID: <3BF07CC1.68ABC5B3@wasd.vsm.com.au>S   <note>(WARNING! must be tired)  G Woops.  Had no idea that such *seemingly* inconsequential functionalityrA would require a significant rewrite of core kernel architecture.  H Perhaps this new functionality should only be seriously considered after( the IA64 port has settled down a little.  @ I profited from the analysis right up to the "My advice.." whichD thereafter seemed to have a decidedly familiar ascerbic tone to it. A Whilst making a premium outlay for a premium product I would have C thought the vendor might consider making the appropriate changes to B their product if there was a significant demand, hence the hand upB during the straw poll.  If open source then it's a whole different story.  H I *did* imagine that some sort of algorithm might need to be employed inG resolving the issue of removing or inserting the character from displaye@ and input buffer but having designed and implemented non-trivialG algorithms myself just assumed that that this might a necessary step ing8 achieving the objective once the decision had been made.   If U*x shells can manage it ...,  F While I'm taking time out for this I might add another request relatedG to the command-line, a command buffer exceeding 255 characters, perhapsy? even something approaching the design limits of the $dsc string E structures.  I understand that this is much, much more non-tivial :^) D but still desirable.  Goodness knows how much more complex this willH make multi-line command editing.  Let's see 65535 / 80 ~= 819 lines / 24H ~= 34 screens.  Nah, I can't wait for my terminal emulator to manage theF refresh, forget the command-line editing issue, much too complex, just  give us a bigger command buffer.  
 <end_note>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Mark Daniel wrote: > >  > > Mark Daniel wrote: > > >  > > > Simon Clubley wrote: > > > >aP > > > > Are there any plans to fix the inability to fully edit DCL command lines0 > > > > longer than the current terminal width ? > > > >-P > > > > Having just spent a good chunk of the weekend editing long command linesO > > > > (as part of some application testing), it is my opinion [currently, NoteP > > > > So Humble :-)] that the inability to fully edit DCL command lines longer< > > > > than the current terminal width is now unacceptable. > > > > $ > > > > What do other people think ? > > >tG > > > Strongly agree.  It's embarressing in front of my U*x colleagues.9 > >0J > > As well as an inconvenient in practice (he adds as an afterthought :^) > F > Well, o.k. Understand what you're asking for here. In VMS terms, ... > I > When a <DEL> is received and the cursor is already at column 1, somehowe- > you must accomplish *ALL* of the following:  > F > 1. Move the cursor to the end of the previous display line. Issue an< > ASCII space (cursor should wrap to the next display line). > 3 > 2. Read and store the character under the cursor.  > C > 3. If the terminal supports display editing, you must request thedF > terminal to delete the character under the cursor and "collapse" theI > line (shift everything over one byte toward the cursor position so thatnG > the character that was in column two(2) is now under the cursor which.C > should remain at column one(1)). If the terminal does not supportrH > display editing, you must issue an "erase to end of line" sequence and< > repaint that line on the screen minus the first character. > H > (What if there's more than two display lines? Starting to get the idea* > that this is not as simple as it seems?) > G > 4. Move the cursor to the end of the previous display line. Issue the_I > character that was stored at step 2. The cursor should wrap to the nextrH > display line. Move the cursor to the end of the previous display line. > J > ...and while doing the above, edit the command line buffer to accurately > reflect this manipulation. > " > Starting to get the picture now? > I > What if it's a *REALLY* long line and wraps to a total of three displayl > lines? What then?  > G > My advice would be to get the VMS source listings, find the code that E > needs a fix, write and test the fix, and donate the code to OpenVMS / > engineering to see if they will implement it.h > B > Long shot at best, but worth a try if you think you're up to the > challenge. > F > Yes, I understand that VMS is not open source. Why let that stand in* > your way? Do you want this fixed or not? >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/P   --  # Non sinere illegitamus carborundum.s   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 05:38:34 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS:- Message-ID: <87r8r3acv9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>5  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:6  : > In article <739nutc2cbdbjhsqfg0rss4fqnn0jnfsae@4ax.com>,* >  Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:E > |> On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:23:39 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  > |> wrote:l  E > |> >I use emacs 20.7.1 under W2K and I would have thought that thatt8 > |> >would have been a more difficult port than to VMS.  6 > |> Not if it's built using cygwin (or even MS Posix)F > |> libraries. cygwin gives you effectively a linux environment under5 > |> Windows. Don't know if W2K EMACS uses it though.s  C > And this brings up another (likely hair-brained) idea I have beenaA > kicking around lately.  Does anyone here remember "The Software ? > Tools Virtual Operating System"?  What is the likelyhood thattF > something like this could be revived and expanded as a way (at leastC > temporarily) to get some of the needed user level applications toc > run on VMS??  C > When you look at the overall picture, the idea never flew in it'soD > first iteration for the same reason the P-machine concept withered@ > on the vine.  The additional layer took too many resources andB > resulted in extremely slow (in most cases) execution.  Today, weF > have people happily running Virtual Machines (ala teh P-machine) andD > even entire hardware emulators that run at many times the speed of > the original.o  E > Is there anyone interested in discussing this??  Does anyone have ay> > copy of any of the original work?? (There was a VAX VMS port > running.)r  C Do you want the PDP-11 version, or the Vax version? Or will IRAF do : instead? Have a look at IRAF, and see what it is inside...   -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 05:43:54 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS>- Message-ID: <87n11racmd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>>  ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:   : > On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:47:18 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig- > <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:n  E > >No surprise here.  Stallman's ideas that ANY software which is note? > >free is INHERENTLY EVIL makes it unattractive for him or hiss( > >followers to support VMS in any form.  F > That's not quite correct unless Stallman has altered his views sinceF > I used to communicate with him back in the TOPS-20 EMACS days. It is5 > an interpretation of his views given by many of histF > followers. Stallman explicitly asked for VMS people to help him keep6 > the GNU stuff current on VMS back in the early days.  E The only people RMS did this to was Apple, due to the 'look and feel' B cases. RMS asked people to not do Mac stuff, and to boycott Apple.  A VMS was, way, way back, very well supported in the standard Emacso7 distros. But since about V17 on, it has gone down hill.   C BTW, the Emacs compiles are a LOT cleaner with 21.1. Still a lot of.C crud to do, but it is starting to clean up a little. Oh, and the 21l' stream forked off from 20.5 I was told.e     -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2001 11:58:14 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)m" Subject: Re: files with long lines. Message-ID: <YAKGcjccz213@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  a In article <tut42j2veb8ba7@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:d$ > H Behling <hbehling@wxs.nl> wrote: > : A programming problem,R > : How can I read in Pascal a very long line (without CR/LF) from an ascii file ? > E > You cannot.  The Pascal string datatype has a single-byte prefix todE > hold the length of the string.  The maximum possible length is thus 8 > 255 bytes (127 bytes if treated as a signed quantity). > > > As I recall, both readln and writeln suffer this limitation.    L Incorrect, at least for VAX/Digital/Compaq Pascal.  Since this is c.o.v, one5 can assume that is the version of Pascal he is using.:         PASCAL     Data_Types       String_Types         Varying_of_charr  I          The VARYING OF CHAR  user-defined  types  are  a  Compaq  Pascal I          extension  that  provides  a  way  of  declaring variable-length0I          character strings with a compile-time maximum  length.   If  you1I          require portable code, use the STRING predefined schema types to 3          specify variable-length character strings.               Syntax:  <             VARYING [upper-bound] OF [[attribute-list]] CHAR    I          The 'upper-bound' is an integer in  the  range  from  1  througheI          65,535 that indicates the length of the longest possible string.   I          The 'attribute-list' is one or more  optional  identifiers  thatoI          provide  additional information about the VARYING OF CHAR string:          components.  I          To assign values to fixed-length character strings, you can  useRI          a  character-string constant (or an expression that evaluates tooI          a character string).  When assigning into fixed-length  strings, I          the  compiler  adds  blanks  to extend a string shorter than theaI          maximum characters declared.  If you  specify  a  string  longercI          than  the maximum characters declared, an error occurs.  You canWI          also use an array constructor as long as you specify  characters I          for   every   component   of  the  array  as  specified  in  theo          declaration.o  I          Although a VARYING OF CHAR is a distinct type, it possesses someaI          of  the  properties  of  both record and array types.  A VARYING5I          string is actually stored as though it were a  record  with  twoCI          fields,  LENGTH  and  BODY (which are predeclared identifiers in I          Compaq Pascal).  The LENGTH field contains  the  length  of  the I          current  character  string;  the BODY field contains the string. I          Either field can be accessed in the same way record  fields  area+          accessed (VARY.LENGTH, VARY.BODY).a  '          Example:  VARYING [25] OF CHARp  C          This VARYING OF CHAR type could have the following values:0	          C%             'Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart'              'Bach'       > I > The best suggestion I have is to switch to a real programming language,r3 > not one designed primarily for teaching students.P    K Real programming language?  Do you consider C to be such?  Surely you jest.f    O While I'll be the first to admit that the original Pascal as developed by WirthbL pretty much *is* useless, nobody but him ever developed programs with that.   L While there is still a ANSI/IEEE specification for Standard Pascal, there isO also one for Extended Pascal (I know, I spent several years as the DECUS rep onoM the Joint Pascal Standards Committee).  Extended Pascal fixes pretty much alld: of the problems, real and perceived, with Standard Pascal.  L If you are going to badmouth something, address the current version, not theI prehistoric version.  How many people are still writing in the abominableO Kernighan and Richie dialect?e  N Digital Pascal in particular is by far the best compiler I have used for *any*F language.  When I worked for a defense contractor back in the 80s, ourL department of 70 programmers wrote several million lines of realtime process control code in VAX Pascal.i     Waynes -- iO ===============================================================================iM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)dO ===============================================================================lH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy.". Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2001 21:15 CSTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)." Subject: Re: files with long lines- Message-ID: <12NOV200121153314@gerg.tamu.edu>s  c In article <tut42j2veb8ba7@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes...u# }H Behling <hbehling@wxs.nl> wrote:h }: A programming problem,fQ }: How can I read in Pascal a very long line (without CR/LF) from an ascii file ?) } D }You cannot.  The Pascal string datatype has a single-byte prefix toD }hold the length of the string.  The maximum possible length is thus7 }255 bytes (127 bytes if treated as a signed quantity).1 } = }As I recall, both readln and writeln suffer this limitation.n } H }The best suggestion I have is to switch to a real programming language,2 }not one designed primarily for teaching students. }  }--  }-- Mike Zarlengal   PASCAL     Data_Types       String_Types         String  I          The  STRING  predefined  schema  provides  a  way  of  declaringeI          variable-length  character  strings.  The compiler stores STRINGiI          data  as  though  it  were  stored  in  the   following   schemaM          definition:  
          TYPE F             STRING ( Capacity : INTEGER ) = VARYING[Capacity] OF CHAR;    >          The syntax of the discriminated schema is as follows:               STRING ( Capacity )'    I          The 'Capacity'  is  an  integer  in  the  range  1..65,535  thatb=          indicates the length of the longest possible string.n    G As you can see, the length limit for a string is not 255. It is 65,535.u 16 bit size, not 8.   6 (The same is true of the "varying of char" data type.)   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:45:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: filesystem traces- Message-ID: <87wv0v8v70.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  - Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:e  B > no, i meant that i am looking for actual trace data. gathering aC > trace is no problem, its that i dont have a vms system thats busyiD > with lotsofusers..  it's for filesystem research. All of our traceB > data so far is from unix systems, but aside from VMS there is noC > real versioning filesystem that has seen long term, wide speread,hD > large scale use. Versioning is one of those things that nobody butC > vms has really done right yet, and im looking for some trace data B > from a system that does versioning... i found some references toC > some work done in 1992, but thats tantamount to finding something @ > written on clay tablets :) so i was hoping maybe somebody fromF > inside dec, or some other lucky place, might have access to some oldF > traces.  thanks for the tip though! ill have to try that out. i onlyD > know the basics of vms and havent used it much since my first year > of undergrad study :)h  I There was none available back in the 80s I know. The only ones then whereo) from the 10 and from 370s and the like...M  E It will be tricky to do it well, QIOs can be split to follow mapping,eL or be streched out by quota shortages etc. So you need precision time stamps* as well as all the devise/length/LBN info.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.c@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:00:00 -0700 ( From: emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com> Subject: free global pages+ Message-ID: <3BF0B6E0.5FCF80C5@ecubics.com>t   Hi,oE while installing software, I got the message, that I have to increasen" "the number of free global pages".5 However, I didn't find anything about it in the docs.  So, how can I do this ?m   It's on VMS 5.5-1i   cheers & thanks a lotn   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:32:54 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! - Message-ID: <871yj3aacp.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:x  C > Why the slam at Unix users??  One of the first production uses oft( > Unix was text processing, in English!!  @ No, the first production use for unix was running the display so> they could play SPCWR. Typesetting english was just the excuse% given to managment to keep the PDP-7.,  :)    -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2001 21:46 CSTa' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) Y Subject: Re: Insufficient Virtual Memory when Linking a Fortran Program (Alpha VMS 7.1-2) - Message-ID: <12NOV200121463027@gerg.tamu.edu>m  ( mjk@uiuc.edu (Mark J. Kushner) writes...< }I am trying to link a large fortran program and receive the }following error message.  } B }%LINK-E-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memory for 2251859. pages$ }        for cluster DEFAULT_CLUSTER } ? }My system is an Alpha, VMS 7.1-2 with 2 GB of physical memory.gA }The parameters for the interactive process and system parameters  }are as follows: }  }  }WSquo:       100000 }WSextent:   4000000 }Pgflquo:   10000000 } K }WSMAX                     3000000       4096      1024    8388608 PageletsiH }NPAGEDYN                  4284416    1048576    163840         -1 BytesH }NPAGEVIR                 18358272    8388608    163840         -1 Bytes }  }Modparams.dat parameters are: }  }MIN_WSMAX=3000000 }MIN_VIRTUALPAGECNT = 3000000  }  }Page and swap files are:  } M }Paging File Usage (blocks):                     Free  Reservable       Totale+ }  DISK$UIGELA_47245:[SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYS;1 M }                                              149888      149888      149888t+ }  DISK$UIGELA_47245:[SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYS;1eM }                                             9999872     9886928     9999872o } # }Does anybody have any suggestions?o } 5 }                                        Mark Kushnerd  @ 2251859*8192 = over 17 GB. You can not fit 17 GB in the slightlyC less than 2 GB of working set extent allowed by your quota, or eveno@ the 6.5 GB you get when you add in the nearly 4.5 GB of pagefileC configured (which slightly less than the size of the pagefile quotal allows you to use).   = You need to either reduce the size of the data in the FortranvA (probably a large multidimensional array with excessive bounds in > one or more dimensions) or configure a lot more pagefile space3 (some 25,000,000 blocks worth should do the trick).o  C Then you need to increase the process's pagefile quota. It is giventD in pagelets (which are 0.5 KB in size) and it is a smidge under 5 GB@ (binary GB rather than decimal GB, of course). The pagefile sizeB listed below from a SHOW MEMORY is in disk blocks, which happen toE be the same size as a pagelet - half a kilobyte. The size of a memory C page on a VAX is also that size but on all current Alpha systems iteE is 16 times that size, or 8 KB per page (the architecture allows themoD to get bigger, up to 64 KB per page, but no Alpha system from CompaqE uses anything but the 8 KB page size yet - I think the Cray T3 seriesaA may use bigger pages, but I bet that is not what you are on as it  doesn't run VMS).   B But my guess is that your program has misconfigured array sizes asD this is by far the most common method of getting this sort of error, in my experience.s   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:32:28 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)e+ Subject: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipmentss' Message-ID: <9sqeps$6na$1@joe.rice.edu>5 Keywords: intel,itanium,bug   = Just the normal teething pains of a new processor design ?...s  *    http://www.theinquirer.net/12110106.htm%    Itanium bug halts Compaq shipmentsv    Other OEMs still shipping  )    By Mike Magee, 12/11/2001 09:50:17 BST>  F   "CORPORATE USERS wanting to buy Itanium machines are being told thatI    the processors are going through rigorous testing but the INQUIRER canuH    now confirm there is a serious bug with 733MHz and 800MHz versions of/    the processor preventing them from shipping.   H    According to a source at a large Swiss bank - Compaq - one of Intel'sH    major PC customers has warned it that there are reliability and otherE    problems in the die of the processor that prevent the product fromh    being shipped.   E    We first reported the problem with the Itanium processor two weeks     ago.l  E    Other, major PC customers, however, are shipping products as Intel G    frantically attempts to resolve the erratum, or errata, before going     public with the problems.  I    The T6 problem, as we first reported here, will not affect shipment ofoI    the up-and-coming McKinley processor but is associated with the 64-bitu+    product that Intel first shipped in May.n  I    The news is a serious blow to Intel, coming as it does after a failuret?    to ship the Itanium processor for what seemed like years..."e    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:52:34 GMTn4 From: "Phillip D. Williams" <phdevaxvms@hotmail.com> Subject: Jensen ie AXP 150= Message-ID: <6MVH7.115676$ez.14554999@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com>c   Hellop. I got my hands on a Jensen AXP 150. The system, came with 32 megs and a RDD42 cdrom. I wouldK like to intsall more ram. I tried to install 16meg 60ns simms in both banks  (128megs) but the system hangs.t1 I thought the AXP 150 could take standard pc typeu1 simms or does it need DEC/Compaq specific simms??-6 2nd problem is how do I install VMS (7.2-1)??? I found> plenty of sites that tell me how to install NT (which I really' dont need) but no step by step for VMS.. Thanks Phillipc   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:03:23 +000054 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Jensen ie AXP 1508 Message-ID: <6jh0vtsniau4272acueotbcairedg0br29@4ax.com>  7 On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:52:34 GMT, "Phillip D. Williams"i <phdevaxvms@hotmail.com> wrote:t   >Hello/ >I got my hands on a Jensen AXP 150. The systeml- >came with 32 megs and a RDD42 cdrom. I wouldsL >like to intsall more ram. I tried to install 16meg 60ns simms in both banks  >(128megs) but the system hangs.2 >I thought the AXP 150 could take standard pc type2 >simms or does it need DEC/Compaq specific simms??7 >2nd problem is how do I install VMS (7.2-1)??? I foundi? >plenty of sites that tell me how to install NT (which I reallyd( >dont need) but no step by step for VMS.  = Parity(*) SIMMs required for these machines.  70ns or faster.a  F (*)  Easily recognised by the strange number of chips per card.  Whips# cover off VLC... 12 on all of mine.a     	John. -- i
 John Laird Yezerski Roper Ltd   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 18:25:13 -0800/ From: chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers)  Subject: Re: Jensen ie AXP 150= Message-ID: <754a27c1.0111121825.683827ff@posting.google.com>m  y "Phillip D. Williams" <phdevaxvms@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<6MVH7.115676$ez.14554999@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com>...C > Helloh0 > I got my hands on a Jensen AXP 150. The system. > came with 32 megs and a RDD42 cdrom. I wouldM > like to intsall more ram. I tried to install 16meg 60ns simms in both banksn! > (128megs) but the system hangs. 3 > I thought the AXP 150 could take standard pc types3 > simms or does it need DEC/Compaq specific simms??>8 > 2nd problem is how do I install VMS (7.2-1)??? I found@ > plenty of sites that tell me how to install NT (which I really) > dont need) but no step by step for VMS.w > Thanks	 > Phillip   D The Jensen uses standard 72pin 70ns parity SIMMs in two banks.  TheyF MUST be true parity.  However, the layout of the banks is not obvious.E  Read the markings on the board carefully.  4, 8, and 16MB SIMMs willy" work.  I haven't tried 32MB SIMMs.  C Also, you will need a VMS ECU disk to configure the system.  The NTi" one will not work (or vice versa).   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2001 22:40:57 GMT! From: Mark Hatch <mhatch@ics.com> E Subject: MotifZone.net - the site for Motif Developers (monthly post) ' Message-ID: <3BF016AC.21B66CDC@ics.com>a  D The Motif Zone (http://www.motifzone.net) is the center of a growingH community of open source developers dedicated to the ongoing developmentG and maintenance of Open Motif. In the last 12 months, the MotifZone hasaB hosted over 500,000 downloads of Open Motif and processed over 30+G Million website hits. With over 4,000 registered members, the MotifZonesE provides an unique site that combines the talents of mission criticalf> application developers with the innovations of the open source
 community.  A The latest binaries and sources of Open Motif, as well as relatediB software, are hosted at the MotifZone and are freely available forE downloads. An anonymous CVS tree is also provided to those that wouldsD like to enhance or just learn more about the GUI toolkit that is theH industry standard on UNIX workstations. In addition, the MotifZone hosts3 the official Open Motif defect tracking system too.n  E A number of community efforts are underway at the MotifZone to extends  and improve Motif. Specifically: - Embedded Open MotifI - Themes for OpenMotifH - Autoconfigure building of sources (for those preferring an alternative	 to imake)W
 - Tooltips  H For developers looking to program using the Motif toolkit, the MotifZone@ offers the Internet's largest collection of reference materials,E tutorials, technical articles and formal documentation on X and MotifiH programming. Hundred's of links are provided to both commercial and open( source tools that can speed development.  A The Open Help Forums provides a selection of channels for posting G questions and receiving help from your peers. The signal-to-noise ratio G of these channels is high with questions typically being "on-topic" and E none of the usual "get rich quick" scams seen on the comp.x.windows.*g@ newsgroups. The use of nicknames for  identification provides anH effective barrier to spammers that comb the newsgroups looking for email
 addresses.  H And of course, the MotifZone provides the usual collection of feeds fromC sites like Freshmeat, Slashdot and Linux Today so that you can stay . current with the latest changes in technology.  < The Motif Zone is sponsored by Integrated Computer SolutionsD (http://www.ics.com), providers of GUI development tools for X/Motif developers.c  
 *************uE ICS will offer its next public training on Motif and X programming inrH Washington DC, December 3-7. Send email to training@ics.com for details.  
 *************e   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2001 20:55:36 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>o6 Subject: OpenVMS o/s cd-rom insufficient quotas/limits0 Message-ID: <9spd08$6td@dispatch.concentric.net>  5 Can Compaq produce an OpenVMS operating system CD-ROMp' with the proper quotas necessary to rund( $ ANALYZE /DISK_STRUCTURE /REPAIR  dunn: ?t  7 With version 7.2-1 and 7.3, when I boot from the CD-ROMs and access a DCL prompt I get 5 %ANALDISK-F-ALLOCMEM, error allocating virtual memoryt- -LIB-F-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memorye  D That also happens when I first log onto a newly installed version of OpenVMS.7 I must enlarge the SYSTEM username's limits and quotas.w  8 I know I can waste disk space by copying the system disk* to another disk drive and booting from it; but why do I need to do that?=  & What is the best way to request Compaq1 to enlarge the standard OpenVMS username SYSTEM's- limits and quotas?, That would make OpenVMS more "user friendly"7 to install and manage OpenVMS systems "out of the box".o   Jim Strehlow, jimS@data911.com Data911 OpenVMS Systems Manager= Alameda, CA=   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:58:22 GMTs1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>D: Subject: Re: OpenVMS o/s cd-rom insufficient quotas/limits2 Message-ID: <3BF037FE.454146CB@clarityconnect.com>  : You can also boot conversational and then do the following* SYSBOOT> SET PQL_MPGFLQUOTA {large number} SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0j
 SYSBOOT> CONTu   Jim Strehlow wrote:a > 7 > Can Compaq produce an OpenVMS operating system CD-ROMi) > with the proper quotas necessary to runm* > $ ANALYZE /DISK_STRUCTURE /REPAIR  dunn: > ?( > 9 > With version 7.2-1 and 7.3, when I boot from the CD-ROMc > and access a DCL prompt I gety7 > %ANALDISK-F-ALLOCMEM, error allocating virtual memorym/ > -LIB-F-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memoryf > F > That also happens when I first log onto a newly installed version of
 > OpenVMS.9 > I must enlarge the SYSTEM username's limits and quotas.t > : > I know I can waste disk space by copying the system disk, > to another disk drive and booting from it; > but why do I need to do that?  > ( > What is the best way to request Compaq3 > to enlarge the standard OpenVMS username SYSTEM'se > limits and quotas?. > That would make OpenVMS more "user friendly"9 > to install and manage OpenVMS systems "out of the box".  >   > Jim Strehlow, jimS@data911.com! > Data911 OpenVMS Systems Manager 
 > Alameda, CAG   -- cD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2001 23:54:16 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>h: Subject: Re: OpenVMS o/s cd-rom insufficient quotas/limits0 Message-ID: <9spnf8$6t3@dispatch.concentric.net>  + When I boot from the OpenVMS v7.2-1 cd-rom,-; I modified the following dynamic parameters without successl   $$$ MCR SYSGEN SET PQL_DFILLM       1000R SET PQL_MFILLM       1000g SET PQL_DBIOLM       1000s SET PQL_MBIOLM       1000r SET PQL_DDIOLM       1000r SET PQL_MDIOLM       1000t   SET PQL_DASTLM       3000e SET PQL_MASTLM       3000  SET PQL_DTQELM       3000o SET PQL_MTQELM       3000b SET PQL_DENQLM       4000  SET PQL_MENQLM       4000h   SET PQL_DBYTLM     500000  SET PQL_MBYTLM     500000u SET PQL_DJTQUOTA     8192o SET PQL_MJTQUOTA     8192t   SET PQL_DWSDEFAULT   4000i SET PQL_MWSDEFAULT   4000  SET PQL_DWSQUOTA     6000h SET PQL_MWSQUOTA     6000  SET PQL_DWSEXTENT   32768  SET PQL_MWSEXTENT   32768e SET PQL_DPGFLQUOTA 250000e SET PQL_MPGFLQUOTA 250000  WRITE ACTIVE  : CREATE  SYS$SYSTEM:PAGEFILE.SYS /SIZE= 2105300 /CONTIGUOUS) INSTALL SYS$SYSTEM:PAGEFILE.SYS /PAGEFILEt: CREATE  SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS /SIZE=   67300 /CONTIGUOUS) INSTALL SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS /SWAPFILE      When I* $$$ ANALYZE /DISK_STRUCTURE /REPAIR  dunn:  ' I still get insufficient virtual memory 5 %ANALDISK-F-ALLOCMEM, error allocating virtual memoryf- -LIB-F-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memorye    L When I alter SYSTEM to the following when I boot from a system disk, analyze works.C MODIFY SYSTEM /FILLM= 1000 /SHRFILLM= 0 /BIOLM= 1000 /DIOLM= 1000 -m)  /ASTLM= 3000 /TQELM= 3000 /ENQLM= 4000 -a+  /BYTLM= 500000 /PBYTLM= 0 /JTQUOTA= 8192 -sD  /WSDEFAULT= 2048 /WSQUOTA= 4096 /WSEXTENT= 32768 /PGFLQUOTA= 250000    K Might my problem be related to WSMAX which is not dynamic at 24000 from the  cd-rom?m   Jim Strehlow, Data911     < "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote in message. news:<3BF037FE.454146CB@clarityconnect.com>...< > You can also boot conversational and then do the following, > SYSBOOT> SET PQL_MPGFLQUOTA {large number} > SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0e > SYSBOOT> CONTc  F > Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY/ > - jilly@clarityconnect.com - Brett Bodine fang- > - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com - since 1975 or son- > - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 22:47:05 -08006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)I Subject: OpenVMS v6.2 VAX drivers for Q-Bus SIMPAC 32/22, and 32/12 cardsi= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0111122247.483a652d@posting.google.com>"   Hi,C  E We are trying to upgrade our VAX from OpenVMS v5.5-2 to OpenVMS v6.2.iB The VAX is used in the process control environment, and uses Q-BusF SIMPAC 32/22, and 32/12 cards. We are trying to locate the drivers forE OpenVMS VAX v6.2. The VMS v5.5-2 drivers don't work - "system version A mismatch" error. Any suggestions on where we can get the would be  appreciated.   Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:16:24 GMT - From: "John Hayes" <john@worldwide-wines.moc> & Subject: Re: PCL Printer control codes? Message-ID: <I_WH7.3172$lY5.2354960@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>o  : I had this nailed down and they changed the printer on me.  K Using Cannon Image Runner printers/copiers. I have the correct pcl codes to-J do landscape etc. When I put the ESC P and ESC \ in the code I get a blankL page with the check symbol and the number 2 print out, if I remove them thenI the first page of the document prints on the back side of the first page.e   Any ideas ?h   John    < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3BE217C8.500AB66B@fsi.net...  > John Hayes wrote:n > >cK > > I have a telnet queue going to a canon printer (photocopier,scanner etc C > > unit). I have created a library with PCL control codes to print 	 landscapetK > > and portrait. These are fine but when I print in duplex mode, the first  pageE > > always prints on the back side of the first page. It makes all myM reports > > > looks like they are skipping a page. Anyone got any ideas. > >E > > Desperate Now  >8: > I seem to remember solving that (at least partially) by: > H > 1. In the job setup, using the sequence to select duplex side two near' > the end of the job setup sequence(s).M5 > 2. In page setup, include the "next side" sequence.a > I > ...I think, not 100% sure anymore. That was getting onto four years ago ' > already, and at least three jobs ago.A >LG > ...oh yeah, remember to enclose the whole thing(s) in extended escape8' > sequence delimiters (<ESC>P, <ESC>\).E >P > ...I think...  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >M   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:08:24 -0500g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>w# Subject: SET FILE/STAT and clustersB, Message-ID: <3BF07283.DBA91B9D@videotron.ca>  L had the occasion to need the SET FILE/STAT and MON RMS/FILE=filename today.   N However, I was quite disapointed to find out that in a 2 node cluster, the MONL RMS on the node that has control of the disk on which the file resides would; not show usage statistics from a process running on node 2.s  M I can understand that with dual path disks, one node wouldn't really see whathJ the other node is doing. But with MSCP access, shouldn't the node that hasO control of the drive be able to provide clusterwide RMS monitoring for a file ?.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:45:05 +0100h& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org* Message-ID: <3BF026C0.4C03B75C@dplanet.ch>   Terry C Shannon wrote: > =t  ' > On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:, > =o   > >p< > > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in messageB > > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111102342060.15684-100000@world.std.com... > > >u  H I agree with Bill in the substance of his arguments, but not necessarily$ in the way he chose to express them.  @ In your SKC Special there are a number of contentious points....  C 1.  You said "For nearly a decade, Alpha has reigned as the fastest-J processor on the planet. Compaq=97and Digital before it=97invested heavil= yeD in a series of misguided marketing campaigns designed to convey thisG fact to the marketplace."  Sorry, I must have missed this marketting. =n  / Where was it ?  On bus-stops in Poland again ??s  G 2. You said "These investments [in Alpha] yielded abysmally low ROI". =   F Methinks comparatively speaking, the ROI on Alpha was very good.  From@ the Compaq financials, Windows-based products return about 2% onD investment in a GOOD year but Alpha-based systems return about 12 to 15%. =    C 3.  You said "About two years ago, several senior technologists and G strategists in Compaq=92s High Performance Systems Divisions decided to > take an objective and soul-searching look at the 'Whither=97orJ Wither=97Alpha?' question."   I find this very odd because the well-known=  D report which compared Alpha to IA64 and concluded that Alpha was farF superior actually has a date stamp of 11 Oct 1999.  I find it very oddG that a report extolling the virtues of Alpha should be released at thateF time and at the same time there are questions arising about the futureC of Alpha.  (I believe the report escaped into the public arena many A months, by which time - if your statement is correct - Compaq hadp; already concluded that the future for Alpha was "limited".)c  D 4.  You said "With an installed base of perhaps ~700K systems and an@ annual run rate of perhaps ~100K systems, the Alpha architectureD appeared incapable of gaining market share or momentum."  To which IB would add "because of poor or non-existent marketing".  Had CompaqE actually tried to increase the sales through good marketing then yourrG statement would hold water.  As events stand, this incapability is onlyP
 an assertion.D  D 5.  You said "(Further clouding the EV8 issue was anecdotal evidenceH that the incorporation of symmetric multithreading technology would haveH reduced the processor=92s target frequency by a full gigahertz.)".  ThisF would be a curious statement if it were true, and would indeed justify< the abandonment of Alpha (assuming of course that SMT was ofD sufficiently high priority  ... which must be considered question inG light of the performance penalty it causes.)  On the other hand (IIRC),t@ we also have anecdotal evidence that EV8 was meeting performance specifications and schedules...o  B 6.  You said "...the Compaq research team took a close look at theG shifting epicenter of system  differentiation. They discovered that raw2G processor performance was ceasing to be a key contributor to enterpriselC system differentiation. (If CPU performance really mattered, CompaqmE would have eclipsed Sun in the enterprise server space ages ago!)". =2  A Well maybe Compaq would have eclipsed Sun if they had bothered to G advertise Alpha and Tru64.  (Note we stack one unix gainst another, noteH VMS which would force a bigger change on the customer.)  You know, maybeE performance would have been important if Alpha had been promoted hardiC enough.  Imagine a system with PERFORMANCE + RAS + NUMA + latency +dF bandwidth ...  This conclusion again reflects on the lack of marketing effort by Compaq.  =    E 7.  Finally, you assemble a collection of "achievements" of Intel anddG conclude "the rationale for the IPF decision is clear."  Sorry, no.  IfiG achievements in processor technology were all that mattered, then Alpha2  would be the preferred option. =      H So much of this argument is simply a reflection of Compaq's inability toF promote Alpha and their consequent conclusion that there was no marketH for it.  Honestly, it's like me saying that I could never win any awards@ for basketball.  That's an obvious conclusion since I don't play basketball.      John McLeane   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:55:31 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <TOVH7.151758$tb2.12686180@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   / Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messageu2 news:WjRH7.5468$o16.296352@typhoon2.gnilink.net... >h7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message ? > news:HwKH7.147173$tb2.12201313@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...yF > > Is the word 'newcomers' strange to you?  It has nothing to do with mentalC > > capacity, but just means people not up to speed on the on-going  > discussion -K > > and quite likely thus also not in a very good position to differentiatek% > > between substance and propaganda.  >lK > If the strength of your position it is so strong (to point where you feel2L > you can refer to people who do not hold position as fools) then you shouldI > be able to just post it and let its stand on its own merit.  Instead ofCH > attempting to put forth your position, and let folks make up there ownI > minds, we often find you flaying away, in a highly emotional manner, atv > anyone who disagrees with.  I No, I don't flay just anyone:  I only flay people who repeatedly post thenJ same garbage without making any attempt to address the points others bringK up to demonstrate that it's garbage.  People who instead engage such pointseC and attempt to address them get what they deserve as well:  a real,n3 sometimes spirited but usually useful, interchange.t  L Terry was well aware of the objections to the material he rehashed, and thatJ I was far from the only one here to believe those objections.  By ignoringL them and presenting the stale material as something new, he deserved exactly the reception he got.a   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:09:28 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <Y%VH7.151900$tb2.12701522@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>s  = Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagee6 news:JOSH7.17754$I6.4371753@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...   ...s  C > Rightly or wrongly, Alpha's dead. Get over it. No amount of 20-20I	 hindsighta > will change this fact.  I That's patently false:  if the decision is perceived as sufficiently bad,nJ and the economic consequences of it sufficiently drastic to cause a changeI of management at Compaq, then change is eminently possible.  ResurrectingoK the architecture's viability will certainly be more difficult than it would K have been before last summer's incompetence, but if the alternative is eveno bleaker then it can happen.    > J > I continue to maintain that a decade of marketing malfeasance and stupidH > strategy tricks ensured Alpha's ultimate oblivion. And while I'm not a mathI > major, I can do the math when it comes to apportioning an annual ~$250Mf R&DsE > and infrastructure cost across an annual run rate of perhaps half ae milliont
 > processors.L  H Yes, Alpha might have taken over the world with even marginally-adequateI management.  But despite the lack of such, it still turned a tidy profit,:L especially in comparison to Compaq's other business, retained the respect ofK the industry, and retained the potential to expand its market significantlyr8 at any time should its owner develop minimal competence.  H If a processor costs an extra $500, it will admittedly never conquer theH desktop or small-appliance market.  So what?  Alpha's profits never came from those markets.S  K Conversely, even if a processor is given away free of charge, it will nevertF conquer the mid-range-and-up server/high-end workstation market if itsJ performance sucks - because it will drag down the effectiveness of all theB associated hardware, solftware, and user effort that *isn't* free.  G Alpha remained eminently viable, right up until June 25th.  It would beuL harder now, but it *still* could be made viable.  And the efforts to make itG so would be likely repaid by nothing more than the reduction in loss oflL revenue from VMS and Tru64 sales caused by the June 25th announcement (whichH is perhaps the most telling indication of the utter incompetence of that
 decision).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:19:01 GMTr& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <V8WH7.5672$o16.307436@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message = news:TOVH7.151758$tb2.12686180@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...8K > No, I don't flay just anyone:  I only flay people who repeatedly post theeL > same garbage without making any attempt to address the points others bringF > up to demonstrate that it's garbage.  People who instead engage such pointsE > and attempt to address them get what they deserve as well:  a real, 5 > sometimes spirited but usually useful, interchange.o    4 Seems like you should be flaying at yourself then...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:45:02 GMTd& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <i0TH7.5835$vM6.222209@typhoon1.gnilink.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagea& news:3BEFD674.3080206@tsoft-inc.com...I > However, more than a few people are very, very, VERY upset with actions ? > that they perceive to gross incompetance and stupidity.  WhensF > reiteration of some 'justification' of incompetance and stupidity isH > repeated, then repeating a rebuttal of the 'justification' is entirelyC > proper.  I for one wouldn't want the 'big lie' to be perceived as E > reality just because of being constantly repeated without rebuttal.p  I If there is such validity to the point of view there is no reason for theaL highly emotional attacks against virtually every posting that has a contraryG point of view.  The counterpoint point of view can be posted in its own	J thread - and if needed on a constant basis.  Let the readers decide.  BillJ can post the Bill Todd wit and wisdom FAQ on Alpha and Compaq once an hour for all I care.   H What appears to happening here is a bitter attack by ex Digital employeeJ attempting to shout down any point of view that does match the sage Todd'sI point of view.  He is more than welcome to present his point of view.  HeeK does not need to trash every thread that is at odds with his viewpoint.  HeLI can allow those who have viewpoints different from his to flush out their H viewpoint without his bitter attacks.  It clearly has the effect of justF having people walk away rather than put up with it.  It is more than aE little disingenuous of Mr. Todd to suggest what he is doing is in the0H interest of making sure people are inform when he trashes any discussionL that does not agree with his point of view thus blunting its development andL information sharing.  Let him put forth his point of view in his own threads and let the readers decide.   K Of course this assumes that the sage Todd's viewpoint can stand up on their0
 own merit.  I I would have a lot more respect for the man if he was currently a user of0J Alpha technology.  For we know he may have a vested commercial interest inI IBM or Sun at this point in time - or worse may be an ex Digital employeeYI who never found work involving significant responsibility (e.g. 3rd shiftt operator)...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:56:57 GMTm* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgB Message-ID: <tIWH7.125597$7x1.9642600@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  / Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messageN2 news:V8WH7.5672$o16.307436@typhoon2.gnilink.net... > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageF? > news:TOVH7.151758$tb2.12686180@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... I > > No, I don't flay just anyone:  I only flay people who repeatedly postr theJH > > same garbage without making any attempt to address the points others bringtH > > up to demonstrate that it's garbage.  People who instead engage such > pointsG > > and attempt to address them get what they deserve as well:  a real,e7 > > sometimes spirited but usually useful, interchange.C >u >R6 > Seems like you should be flaying at yourself then...  G No, Jeff.  I guess I'll have to use words of fewer syllables to get thet
 point across.b  D While you appear satisfied with fuzzy rationalizations, a lot of theI arguments here are quantitative at their base.  Compaq and its apologistsfK were first up at bat, and raised the quantitative issues by statements suchiL as that Alpha couldn't retain a significant performance lead over Itanic andG that it was not an 'economically sustainable' product - but without any E numbers to back them up.  I dug around and came up with numbers, plus3L qualitative but definite statements from Alpha's design team, that indicatedK that the Compaq statements were absolute balderdash, and quite a few peopleyK here found those numbers and assertions just as persuasive as I found them.w  L But the second inning never started:  instead of any attempt to address thatJ material and add more information to the debate, we just got another roundK of the original bull.  And yet a third round in Terry's new paper recently. L So there's really nothing new to respond to, and the ball remains sitting inC Compaq's court waiting to be served (to switch to another sport foraK metaphor - though by now it's getting clear that they just intend to sit onh% it and hope the match is called off).u   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 04:37:29 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org- Message-ID: <87herzbu9i.fsf@prep.synonet.com>c  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  L > It is intuitively obvious that IBM is a big beneficiary of Compaq's recent > strategic decisions.  8 But, alas, they don't sell Alphas or VMS in most places.  D > As a longtime Alpha advocate I too was dismayed about the decisionE > to scuttle the architecture. Especially in light of the fact that IgE > was doing Alpha futures pitches to CPQ audiences as recently as oneeE > month pre-Trees (I wasn't alone, there's plenty of Alpha marketeersu: > sporting albumin on their countenances these days, too).  tG But we will have to deal with the liars who did this for the indefinatee future.   C > Rightly or wrongly, Alpha's dead. Get over it. No amount of 20-20r" > hindsight will change this fact.  oC > I continue to maintain that a decade of marketing malfeasance and E > stupid strategy tricks ensured Alpha's ultimate oblivion. And whilet: > I'm not a math major, I can do the math when it comes toE > apportioning an annual ~$250M R&D and infrastructure cost across ang7 > annual run rate of perhaps half a million processors.-  F If you believe their numbers at all. BTW, does anyone know the name of< 'the engineer' who said that Alpha would lose it performance advantage yet?  C Alpha is gone. Even with all the money etc, the time lost is fatal.e& Now watch T64 and VMS go the same way.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 04:42:22 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org- Message-ID: <87d72nbu1d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  C > Do I believe that discussion and evidence would have obtained theDD > Taliban's consent?  Not necessarily (and of course now we'll neverF > know for sure) - but making the effort *would* have allowed us to beB > perceived as having attempted to go about things properly ratherD > than as a global bully who can all the more easily be perceived as7 > having in some ways deserved the sucker punch we got.   D The Taliban offered to deliver OBL to a 3rd muslim country for trialA if reasonable evidence was presented to them. The shrub turned itd
 down flat.   -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.d@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 15:40:31 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <UJAKOmR847hq@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  p In article <Y%VH7.151900$tb2.12701522@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > ? > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagea8 > news:JOSH7.17754$I6.4371753@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >  > ...p > D >> Rightly or wrongly, Alpha's dead. Get over it. No amount of 20-20 > hindsight  >> will change this fact.  > K > That's patently false:  if the decision is perceived as sufficiently bad, L > and the economic consequences of it sufficiently drastic to cause a changeK > of management at Compaq, then change is eminently possible.  Resurrecting M > the architecture's viability will certainly be more difficult than it wouldyM > have been before last summer's incompetence, but if the alternative is event > bleaker then it can happen.t >   < 	They can't get the IP creators back.  The folks that workedE 	on it.  All 200 hundred of them are working for Intel.  So I supposec@ 	the theory would be to go to Intel and ask politely to continueG 	EV8?  Or hire new folks to finish EV8 development (where do they come p 	from?)l  H 	How - isn't - it dead?  You say "difficult", I say "nearly impossible."A 	There is a vast gulf between those two views.  If you had said: aH 	"nearly impossible", I would tend to agree.  "Difficult" isn't cutting  	it.   				Robe   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 15:45:08 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)uN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <aF017zeUqWsN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <i0TH7.5835$vM6.222209@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:f  K > IBM or Sun at this point in time - or worse may be an ex Digital employeeaK > who never found work involving significant responsibility (e.g. 3rd shiftl > operator)...  ? 	Don't go there.  He has done RMS development and was surprisedi? 	that one of his techniques was still in use.  A lightweight he2: 	isn't.  So don't lower your argument by disparging Bill's; 	technical capabilities.  He is very technically competent.eC 	Don't believe me?  Visit www.deja.com and search comp.arch.storagev	 	for Todde   				Rob2      ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:16:30 GMTt& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <y6WH7.5985$vM6.229075@typhoon1.gnilink.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messages= news:TOVH7.151758$tb2.12686180@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...TK > No, I don't flay just anyone:  I only flay people who repeatedly post the L > same garbage without making any attempt to address the points others bringF > up to demonstrate that it's garbage.  People who instead engage such pointsE > and attempt to address them get what they deserve as well:  a real, 5 > sometimes spirited but usually useful, interchange.e    4 Seems like you should be flaying at yourself then...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:11:10 GMT & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <2OXH7.6224$vM6.230469@typhoon1.gnilink.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:aF017zeUqWsN@eisner.encompasserve.org...jI > In article <i0TH7.5835$vM6.222209@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen"  <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:b >2D > > IBM or Sun at this point in time - or worse may be an ex Digital employeeG > > who never found work involving significant responsibility (e.g. 3rd  shiftb > > operator)... >>@ > Don't go there.  He has done RMS development and was surprised. > that one of his techniques was still in use.  L That does not mean he is currently employed in a significant decision makingK position - but more importantly it does not mean he isn't shilling for IBM,yB Sun, or some other Compaq competitor because of a vested, and mostL importantly it does not change the bitterness and the lack of current use of the technology...e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:01:16 GMT)& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <00VH7.5907$vM6.227289@typhoon1.gnilink.net>  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagei% news:9sp3ur$lbq$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...sI > In article <ruEH7.5156$o16.275720@typhoon2.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen"p <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:o >m > Jeff,  >e > Why pick on Bill ?  J Easy - consider his opening response which very typical of his postings...  I "Despite your introductory statement that "finally details are emerging", D this is largely a re-hash of the bullshit that Compaq (and you) were. spreading so liberally just after June 25th. "  G ...his notes are often full of his highly subjective opinions which are H often stated in the unprofessional manner demonstrated above.  He is notF offering fact - he is offering his subjective opinion which he expectsK everyone to treat as fact.  When asked for fact he will often quote himself H or someone else offering an highly subjective opinion.  When pressed forJ actual evidence he points to things like a old Bill Heil memo and comes up with grassy knoll theories.s  H Take a look at the actual threads.  You will see Bill Todd posting afterL Bill Todd posting where he keeps pounding the same highly subjective opinionI over and over again on anyone who has a different point of view.  What is L turly offensive is he almost always refuses to acknowledge it is his opinionJ and not fact.  There are extended periods of time where his postings are 5F to 1 or even 10 to 1 what JF is posting.  Those ratios should tell you
 something.  H Answer me this what has Bill Todd added to the discussion in the last 90 days beyond...  % 1) Compaq didn't have to retire Alpha    2) Don't trust Compaq     3) Don't do business with Compaq  G ...over the last 90 doesn't that really sum up all the postings of this K bitter ex Digital employee who not even a current user of Alpha technology?hK I feel like saying to him hey Bill hey we get it - we just don't agree with G your highly subjective bitter opinion - shouting it over and over again  won't improve its flaws...  / > Terry is in the wrong for reposting this poor 7 > excuse for an explanation of why Compaq dumped Alpha.c  K Right and wrong are absolute terms.  You can show me the flaws you feel aresI in Terry's thinking.  You can offer alternate analysis.  But you would bet hard pressed to prove "wrong".  K I don't understand how anyone how has faith the intelligence of the readersoF of the newsgroup would feel it is "wrong" to post a point of view theyK happen to disagree with.  Offer an alternate point of view but don't try toe  silence those you disagree with.  D > I read it today and pretty much agree with everything Bill posted.2 > Note. I am very much interested in VMS's future.  I Fine that post what you believe is the correct analysis of the situation.tI Alternate points of view are fine.  Let the reader decide but there is nol> reason why one has to shout down opinions you disagree with...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:23:53 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgB Message-ID: <ZZXH7.126870$7x1.9707981@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  6 Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:UJAKOmR847hq@eisner.encompasserve.org...aK > In article <Y%VH7.151900$tb2.12701522@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Billu& Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >nA > > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messaget: > > news:JOSH7.17754$I6.4371753@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > >e > > ...g > >eF > >> Rightly or wrongly, Alpha's dead. Get over it. No amount of 20-20
 > > hindsightn > >> will change this fact.  > >tH > > That's patently false:  if the decision is perceived as sufficiently bad,G > > and the economic consequences of it sufficiently drastic to cause ae change? > > of management at Compaq, then change is eminently possible.s ResurrectingI > > the architecture's viability will certainly be more difficult than ity wouldlJ > > have been before last summer's incompetence, but if the alternative is even > > bleaker then it can happen.J > >i >e= > They can't get the IP creators back.  The folks that workedS8 > on it.  All 200 hundred of them are working for Intel.  J That's one of the points that's not clear.  If the agreement with Intel isG final and has 'no rehire' provisions, then you're right - but AFAIK the B existence or non-existence of 'no rehire' provisions is not publicE knowledge, nor do we know how many might return to work on EV8 if the D agreement did not prohibit it, nor do I know the degree to which theI agreement itself is a done deal (e.g., there were anti-trust issues to befH addressed at one point) that Compaq no longer has the right to renege on without legal problems.r  F However, even if they *are* gone for some legally-required period, theJ question then becomes just how much of the EV8 IP was already created (andF owned by Compaq) before they left.  A great deal was, but I don't knowL whether it was enough to carry on without them (and haven't seen anyone elseL claim to know either) - especially considering that the EV7 team is still atI Compaq and would presumably have a considerable leg up on doing so (whichnH helps answer your 'where would they get the engineers?' question which I snipped below).w  K EV8 would certainly be delayed from the previously-envisioned release date.eL But it would have to be delayed by about 3 more years (until 2006) before itL really stopped looking like a worthwhile pursuit - and even in 2006 it wouldJ almost certainly show its heels to the Alpha-inspired Itanics of that era:J it's the POWER (and possibly Hammer) architectures that would start making! it look a bit passe at that time.e   ...f  I > How - isn't - it dead?  You say "difficult", I say "nearly impossible."pA > There is a vast gulf between those two views.  If you had said:iH > "nearly impossible", I would tend to agree.  "Difficult" isn't cutting > it.   K I *know* it would be difficult and felt comfortable stating so, but I don't L (and I suspect you don't - but if you can answer some of the above questionsK by all means do so) have sufficient information to know whether it would ben nearly impossible.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:34:42 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org? Message-ID: <68YH7.726916$Lw3.45637214@news2.aus1.giganews.com>   / Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messageo2 news:2OXH7.6224$vM6.230469@typhoon1.gnilink.net...  L Still can't manage to engage on the issues, can you?  As for your ad hominem issues:6  G > That does not mean he is currently employed in a significant decisioni making
 > position  D I'm an engineer, not a paper-shuffler.  That does give me a slightlyJ different slant on these matters, but I don't consider that a disadvantage" (nor I suspect would Scott Adams).  C  - but more importantly it does not mean he isn't shilling for IBM, ; > Sun, or some other Compaq competitor because of a vested,t  I You're pretty free to suggest such without a shred of evidence (which youd8 won't obtain, because there isn't any:  I'm a free-lanceJ architect/designer/implementor with no such ties, vocational or economic).1 Looks like you're an asshole as well as an idiot.l  	  and mosta/ > importantly it does not change the bitternesse  J A bitterness shared with, to all appearances, the majority of participantsI in this discussion, and for precisely the same reasons.  I was happy whenqK Compaq acquired DEC because there seemed to no way things could do anything E but improve.  Under Pfeiffer there may have been some reason for suchoD optimism, but it's clear that there's none under current management.    and the lack of current use ofe > the technology...u  L I suspect I'm far more conversant with most of the technologies on which VMSK is built than you are.  But my DCL is very rusty, so if that's the level of H your problem I can't disagree - though fail to see much relevance in the observation.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:39:33 -0800i' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>mN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <3BF05DB5.2AE76379@caltech.edu>t   Paul Repacholi wrote:    > E > Alpha is gone. Even with all the money etc, the time lost is fatal.l( > Now watch T64 and VMS go the same way.  H And given their contribution to the bottom line, watch Compaq swirl down the hole right along with them.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:36:16 -0500j( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF05CF0.1060701@tsoft-inc.com>   Jeff Killeen wrote:   : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:aF017zeUqWsN@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > I >>In article <i0TH7.5835$vM6.222209@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen"o >> > <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:  > C >>>IBM or Sun at this point in time - or worse may be an ex Digital  >>>o
 > employee > F >>>who never found work involving significant responsibility (e.g. 3rd >>>l > shifte >  >>>operator)...r >>>r@ >>Don't go there.  He has done RMS development and was surprised. >>that one of his techniques was still in use. >> > N > That does not mean he is currently employed in a significant decision makingM > position - but more importantly it does not mean he isn't shilling for IBM,aD > Sun, or some other Compaq competitor because of a vested, and mostN > importantly it does not change the bitterness and the lack of current use of > the technology...i >   H Just what does a "significant decision making position" have to do with H anything?  Does that mean that only top managers can have a brain?  The H rest of the VMS community is a bunch of mushrooms, keep 'em in the dark  and feed 'em shit?    I Having met Bill, and discussed various things with him over some time, I e4 can say the following with some degree of assurance.  2 He doesn't work for Sun, IBM, or any such company.  C While not really knowing the details, I am to understand that he's  D currently doing some innovative work in the storage area, with I've  guessed a small company.  0 He has no vested interest for or against Compaq.  I He does think rather highly of VMS and Alpha, and feels that some rather -H excellant products have been mishandled by DEC/Compaq and are now being I dropped by Compaq, and that it is a hugh mistake.  With this perspective nA he and quite a few others have dug into the issue and have found n& Compaq's statements to be rather lame.  D Since the technical information favors Alpha over IA-64, the entire E issue isn't technical.  It's internal politics at Compaq.  With this eH perspective, those who are currently and those who have worked with VMS B in the past are both allowed a bit of outrage at Compaq's actions.  F Keep in mind that Compaq could have begun moving toward IA-64 without G immediately killing Alpha.  That action was either gross incompetance, hE or, Compaq is broke and in worse shape then we thought.  Regardless, rF they haven't seemed to have gotten much so far from their deal, other  than reduced payroll expenses.  I And, if the entire thing was done to help Intel and/or HP at the expense  B of Compaq, I think some feds will want to have a talk with Compaq.   Dave   -- 04 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:51:20 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>rN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF06E84.328AF54B@videotron.ca>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:<B > Why pick on Bill ? Terry is in the wrong for reposting this poor7 > excuse for an explanation of why Compaq dumped Alpha.g    H Give Mr Matco a break. I didn't bother reading his newsletter. Those areL usually written a long time ago, distributed probably in a timely fashion toK paying customers and only later made public. So of course, by the time theyeB are made public, the information looks like a re-hash of old news.  N Also, Mr Shannon needs to toe the Compaq party line if he wants to continue toF get his sources of information.  But if for 9 pieces of useless CompaqG propaganda rehash, there is one piece of original content that is trulypB independant and informed, it may still make his newsletter worthy.  M If Matco toes the Compaq party line when he discusses the murder of Alpha, iteL says that Matco has not yet found proof of the real reason for the murder ofF Alpha. (or if he has such proof, it is too damning to be made public).   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2001 19:20:13 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)wN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <IwYW9h$VNTJK@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  a In article <2OXH7.6224$vM6.230469@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:j > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:aF017zeUqWsN@eisner.encompasserve.org...mJ >> In article <i0TH7.5835$vM6.222209@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" > <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:m >>E >> > IBM or Sun at this point in time - or worse may be an ex Digitalg
 > employeeH >> > who never found work involving significant responsibility (e.g. 3rd > shift  >> > operator)...n >>A >> Don't go there.  He has done RMS development and was surprised / >> that one of his techniques was still in use.t > N > That does not mean he is currently employed in a significant decision makingM > position - but more importantly it does not mean he isn't shilling for IBM,cD > Sun, or some other Compaq competitor because of a vested, and mostN > importantly it does not change the bitterness and the lack of current use of > the technology...o >   8 	Yeah but... you are equating his skill set with that of 	a 3rd shift operator:  E >> > IBM or Sun at this point in time - or worse may be an ex Digitalt
 > employeeH >> > who never found work involving significant responsibility (e.g. 3rd > shiftm >> > operator)...   - 	I'm quick to point out you are way off base.d   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:38:19 GMTb& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <%XZH7.5860$o16.314471@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messageo& news:3BF05CF0.1060701@tsoft-inc.com...I > Just what does a "significant decision making position" have to do with  > anything?"  K Very simple - it is very easy to make the rash sort of comments he has madeaK about trashing one's installed application base and moving to Sun or IBM as K quickly as possible when one doesn't have to look at the business realities@H of such a move.  For example his suggestions that current users would beJ better off moving from Alpha to platform X rather than Alpha to IPF.  ThatF is a position that is disconnected from the realities of manging an IT environment.  E > Since the technical information favors Alpha over IA-64, the entiretF > issue isn't technical.  It's internal politics at Compaq.  With thisI > perspective, those who are currently and those who have worked with VMShD > in the past are both allowed a bit of outrage at Compaq's actions.  L Bingo - by your own admission this was a subjective business decision.  ToddK keeps spinning his subjective opinion as fact when what we are dealing with J is a debate about a business judgement - a judgement call by definition is
 subjective...-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:28:09 -0700"+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>IN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org( Message-ID: <3BF0AF69.D516B9EA@mmaz.com>   Jeff Killeen wrote:e  7 > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagea( > news:3BF05CF0.1060701@tsoft-inc.com...K > > Just what does a "significant decision making position" have to do withh
 > > anything?? > M > Very simple - it is very easy to make the rash sort of comments he has madeDM > about trashing one's installed application base and moving to Sun or IBM asiM > quickly as possible when one doesn't have to look at the business realitiesbJ > of such a move.  For example his suggestions that current users would beL > better off moving from Alpha to platform X rather than Alpha to IPF.  ThatH > is a position that is disconnected from the realities of manging an IT > environment.  I To continue from your quote: "better off moving from Alpha to platform X" P provided that platform X is not Compaq.  Perhaps the timelines of the statementsM are rash, but VMS loyalist do not forget and that loyalty stops with VMS wheniP discussing Compaq, especially if the IPF port is a smoke-screen that produces no results.  P I'll be attending the NDA VMS IPF Porting meeting this week in Phoenix and I forJ one plan on grilling Compaq because if the port is a flop, be that becauseN Compaq drops the ball (or HP listens to the analysts and never follows throughM after this botched merger) and never completes the port or the apps never get M ported, then VMS is still dead with no hardware track to run on UNLESS CompaqnN pulls their collective heads from their back-sides now and restores confidence+ that Alpha is not going to be ash-canned...t   Regards,   Barryt --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO9  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:14:45 GMTk' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>w% Subject: Re: Star wars in ascii art !u+ Message-ID: <3BF04A72.3097EB8B@pacbell.net>d  G Who says you need a GUI interface?!! When you can do the whole movie ino ASCII text!o This guy should win an Oscar!    DonC   JF Mezei wrote:c >  > telnet to: >  > towel.blinkenlights.nl > + > make sure you have a good VT emulator :-)k > ) > Some guy put a lot of effort into this.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:28:58 +0100 = From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>p% Subject: Re: Star wars in ascii art !n) Message-ID: <3BF04D2A.ACB36FC4@dummy.com>f  5 Is this ASCII file(?) available in any other way then ' by telnet ? Download to run it localy ?o   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   > JF Mezei wrote:l > >e > > telnet to: > >  > > towel.blinkenlights.nl > > - > > make sure you have a good VT emulator :-)t > >y+ > > Some guy put a lot of effort into this.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:50:41 GMTt From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..come( Subject: Re: UNIX-like utilities for VMS8 Message-ID: <fhr0vt0qb08lai4jto1pr49pfnlrer0muc@4ax.com>  D On 11 Nov 2001 10:17:26 -0800, wjair@hotmail.com (Willy Jair) wrote:   >Hi, >C; >Does any know where can I download the UNIX-like utilities@( >for VMS? i.e. awk, sed, vi, cut ... etc >u >Thanks, >Willy Jair  >wjair@hotmail.com  ) for the more obscure unix tools, perhaps   look at   $ http://sourceforge.net/projects/ppt/  D Perl Power Tools (aka the Unix Reconstruction Project) is an attemptB to provide implementations of all core UNIX programs in perl. This> allows greater portability between UNIXes, as well as non UNIX
 platforms.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2001 20:59:08 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>n' Subject: Re: VMS721_CLIUTL-0200 Status? 0 Message-ID: <9spd6s$6tb@dispatch.concentric.net>  B TITLE: OpenVMS VMS721_CLIUTL-V0300 Alpha V7.2-1 CLIUTL ECO Summary   New Kit Date:       12-NOV-2001m" Modification Date:  Not Applicable? Modification Type:  Updated Kit  Supersedes VMS721_CLIUTL-V0200l  C check http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.2-1/s  - Jim Strehlow, Data911 OpenVMS Systems Managers Alameda, CAl    4 "Rick Dyson" <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> wrote in message# news:3BEC2CF1.30FC1B9F@UIowa.EDU...r > john nixon wrote:0 > >dB > > Does anyone have a response to Rick's question.   This is very
 important. >f; > I have not heard anything and held off installing it yet.s >sC > I have re-contacted someone from Compaq who had pointed me to thenD > released version of CLIUTL and inquired from him if he knew of any > confirmations. >  > Rick >h8 > > "Rick Dyson" <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> wrote in message' > > news:3BE70577.9F4CA7B6@UIowa.EDU...eE > > > Does anyone know what the status of this ECO is?  I first had at problem findinglD > > > it (it is listed as a recommend companion of an INSTALL 1 ECO, VMS721_MOUNT96),+ > > > but it then made it onto the servers.  > > >nG > > > However, there was a early report of it corrupting the QueManager  (QUEMAN.EXE)" > > > displays (i.e., Show Queue). > > >'I > > > Can anyone else confirm this?  I just had a maintanence cycle earlyy this morningL > > > and skipped it for now, but would like to go back to it if it is OK or they2 > > > fix any problems and release a v3.0 copy. :) > > >h > > > Regards, > > > Rick Dyson   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.631 ************************