1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 13 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 632       Contents:( "Nasty rumor" threads in comp.sys.hp.mpe ** JOB FRANCE ANALYSTE VMS ** % ** JOB FRANCE TECHNICIEN MICRO VMS ** / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems ; check this out  Web hosting  On OpenVMS  (customer link...) ? Re: check this out  Web hosting  On OpenVMS  (customer link...) ? Re: check this out  Web hosting  On OpenVMS  (customer link...) ? Re: check this out  Web hosting  On OpenVMS  (customer link...) C Compaq and OSDN Create Clustering Foundry for Open Source Community G Re: Compaq and OSDN Create Clustering Foundry for Open Source Community  Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble $ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking$ Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kicking Re: DECNET task questionD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS RE: Emacs-2[01] on VMS Re: File Organisation help Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY  Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPY  Re: free global pages  Re: free global pages 7 Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted " Re: Garage Sale... Hey, Hobbyists!" Re: Garage Sale... Hey, Hobbyists! Here comes the Compaq spin ..." Re: Here comes the Compaq spin ...2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!F Re: HP co-founder's son hires firm to gather opposition to Compaq deal( Re: HP merger: new take VMS to Agilent ? IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ?? & Re: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipments& Re: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipments& Re: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipments& Re: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipments Items for sale!  Re: LIB$xxx  More Compaq lies exposed Re: More Compaq lies exposed Re: More Compaq lies exposed* Re: Need help, was: Rob's British Champion/ Re: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2 D Re: OpenVMS v6.2 VAX drivers for Q-Bus SIMPAC 32/22, and 32/12 cards Re: SET FILE/STAT and clustersE Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org  Re: Star wars in ascii art ! Re: Star wars in ascii art ! Re: Star wars in ascii art ! Re: Star wars in ascii art !+ Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ? / Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ? / Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ? / Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ? / Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ? / Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ?  Re: UNIX-like utilities for VMS & Re: Verify contents of the floppy disk	 VMS Crash 
 Re: VMS Crash 
 Re: VMS Crash 
 Re: VMS Crash 
 Re: VMS Crash # VMS Mandatory Update 3 -- on CD-ROM   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:35:20 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 1 Subject: "Nasty rumor" threads in comp.sys.hp.mpe 2 Message-ID: <75bI7.57132$Z2.861012@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  C Has anyone else been following the various "Nasty rumor" threads in J comp.sys.hp.mpe? If Compaq and HP do merge then the comp.sys.hp.mpe  folksK and the comp.os.vms  folks should get along quite well. If you take many of L the messages in either group switch HP with Compaq, switch VMS with MPE, andJ HP3000 with Alpha then you could post the same message in the other group.  L For an interesting view on what we can expect if this buyout does go through read the message at;K http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9shdk20piq%40enews2.newsguy.com&output  =gplain   " (Watch the wrapping on that link.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:32:43 +0100 . From: InterSearch <jobs@intersearchfrance.com>& Subject: ** JOB FRANCE ANALYSTE VMS **6 Message-ID: <B8171798.D08D%jobs@intersearchfrance.com>  H Socit industrielle base dans le centre de la France, nous recherchons notre:   RESPONSABLE D'APPLICATIONS VMS    G Notre activit d'quipementier automobile est en forte croissance; nous I recherchons pour notre dpartement informatique un Responsable applicatif  analyste programmeur vms.      Votre mission:  L Rattach au Responsable Informatique, vous concevez, ralisez et adaptez lesK programmes  la spcificit du systme d'exploitation VMS. Vous tudiez les J demandes des services oprationnels, ralisez et validez les applications,L et les remettez aux utilisateurs. Vous participez aussi au dveloppement des
 solutions.  
 Votre profil:   G 28-33 ans, formation suprieure bac+2 informatique, vous avez 5  7 ans J d'exprience d'analyste-programmeur. Matrise du systme VMS et du langageH Basic. Connaissances sur Windows NT, 95/98, Lotus Notes, Office, TCP/IP,% Pathworks ainsi que les codes barres.   " Lieu : Eure et Loir, rgion Centre   Salaire : 250  300 kF  H Merci de contacter sous rfrence M/RAM/covms notre Conseil InterSearch,L jobs@intersearchfrance.com , 59 Bd Exelmans 75016 Paris , fax 01 53 84 74 84   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:32:52 +0100 . From: InterSearch <jobs@intersearchfrance.com>. Subject: ** JOB FRANCE TECHNICIEN MICRO VMS **6 Message-ID: <B81717C1.D08E%jobs@intersearchfrance.com>  H Socit industrielle base dans le centre de la France, nous recherchons notre:   TECHNICIEN MICRO-RESEAU VMS     G Notre activit d'quipementier automobile est en forte croissance; nous K recherchons pour notre dpartement informatique un technicien micro rseaux  bureautique vms.     Votre mission:  I Rattach au Responsable Informatique, vous prenez en charge la gestion du I parc micro informatique de plusieurs centaines d'ordinateurs multi sites. D Vous assurez la mise  jour des logiciels, la gestion du rseau, desI serveurs, des priphriques, des systmes de messagerie et de tlphonie. A Support aux utilisateurs, vous tes l'interlocuteur technique des H fournisseurs. Vous procdez  l'installation des nouveaux quipements etD assurez les dpannages et la maintenance gnrale. Vous veillez  laL fourniture priodique de documents centraliss par le systme d'exploitation VMS.  
 Votre profil:   J 28-33 ans, formation suprieure bac+2 informatique, vous avez entre 3 et 5L ans d'exprience de technicien micro. Connaissance du systme d'exploitationH VMS. Matrise Windows NT, 95, 98, ethernet, TCP/IP, Lotus Notes, PABX et7 Office. Pratique du systme rseau Pathworks apprcie.   " Lieu : Eure et Loir, rgion Centre   Salaire : 200  250 kF  H Merci de contacter sous rfrence M/TMR/covms notre Conseil InterSearch,L jobs@intersearchfrance.com , 59 Bd Exelmans 75016 Paris , fax 01 53 84 74 84   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:34:39 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems8 Message-ID: <1912vtkco0q7c51o2miuo3hks2bkmshuas@4ax.com>  F On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:31:33 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:     > I >We all know about anti static procedures don't we (we have to take it as  >part of our training).   C The type of anti-static wrist bands which plug into a wall (for the B earth/ground) are my favourites. There's always something slightlyB strange about strapping a conductor with a velcro fastener to your8 wrist then plugging the other end into the power socket!   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:24:30 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems) Message-ID: <3BF12D1E.7A0FEF11@127.0.0.1>    Alan Greig wrote:  > H > On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:31:33 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>	 > wrote:   > > K > >We all know about anti static procedures don't we (we have to take it as  > >part of our training).  > E > The type of anti-static wrist bands which plug into a wall (for the D > earth/ground) are my favourites. There's always something slightlyD > strange about strapping a conductor with a velcro fastener to your: > wrist then plugging the other end into the power socket!  F One hopes that a 1 megaohm resistor is in place. I've had a zap or twoH off 240v AC mains before now, fortunately only across the fingers of the same hand, and it hertz.  F Something quite interesting about the training, that I didn't realise,C is that antistatic equipment actually 'breaks down' and needs to be F tested regularly. We had to replace our kit because when we tested it,G it wasn't discharging properly. Some other interesting facts is that it > is possible for a static discharge to not completely destroy a+ component, but cause its premature failure.   H You're right though Alan, you need to use an electrical earth, using the% 'equipment' as ground is not correct!  --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:15:49 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems8 Message-ID: <90e2vtkvffdmubheam5afcj1enhnlhq1ib@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:24:30 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   > H >it wasn't discharging properly. Some other interesting facts is that it? >is possible for a static discharge to not completely destroy a , >component, but cause its premature failure.  D Yes and I'm forever telling this to PC colleagues who whip the coverC of every five minutes it seems. But it always works after they say. F For a time and with slowly increasing frequencies of random hangs. Hey- but Windows does that anyway so who can tell!   I >You're right though Alan, you need to use an electrical earth, using the & >'equipment' as ground is not correct!  F Got a long lecture from a DEC FS guy many, many years ago. Even got to; see the electron microscope photos of static damaged chips.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:41:56 -0500 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>D Subject: check this out  Web hosting  On OpenVMS  (customer link...)3 Message-ID: <sp9I7.1508$RL6.48856@news.cpqcorp.net>   , Just found this - which I think is excellent   Sue        http://www.eurokom.ie/  G Go to "services" menu and check their comment re OpenVMS under the "web 
 hosting" menu   3 Before you waste your time on the Web, speak to us.    How it worksL The EuroKom Web Server (the one you are connected to now) runs on our COMPAQK Alpha cluster operating under OpenVMS. Our Web Server is one of the fastest B available and, allied with the combination of OpenVMS on the AlphaG processor, we can deliver breathtaking performance. Our Server can host B multiple domains, so the URL for your web page will be of the formK www.acme.ie. Our Internet feed is sufficient to ensure the fastest possible  response to your browsers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:26:10 +0200 2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>H Subject: Re: check this out  Web hosting  On OpenVMS  (customer link...)* Message-ID: <3BF149A2.24DA3E9@digital.com>  A If you go to http://uptime.netcraft.com/ and enter www.eurokom.ie = you'll see they're running OSU V2.2 - not the most up-to-date 
 version...   Mike   Sue Skonetski wrote: > . > Just found this - which I think is excellent >  > Sue  >  > http://www.eurokom.ie/ > I > Go to "services" menu and check their comment re OpenVMS under the "web  > hosting" menu  > 5 > Before you waste your time on the Web, speak to us.  >  > How it worksN > The EuroKom Web Server (the one you are connected to now) runs on our COMPAQM > Alpha cluster operating under OpenVMS. Our Web Server is one of the fastest D > available and, allied with the combination of OpenVMS on the AlphaI > processor, we can deliver breathtaking performance. Our Server can host D > multiple domains, so the URL for your web page will be of the formM > www.acme.ie. Our Internet feed is sufficient to ensure the fastest possible  > response to your browsers.   --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 06:51:19 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>H Subject: Re: check this out  Web hosting  On OpenVMS  (customer link...)@ Message-ID: <20011113145119.40744.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>  + I tried to connect to them this morning and 1 was so slow. Probably the south american backbone  needs upgrade.   Where is ie ? Ireland ?=20   Regards    FC=20   5 --- Sue Skonetski <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote: . > Just found this - which I think is excellent >=20 > Sue  >=20 >=20 >=20 > http://www.eurokom.ie/ >=202 > Go to "services" menu and check their comment re > OpenVMS under the "web > hosting" menu  >=205 > Before you waste your time on the Web, speak to us.  >=20 > How it works6 > The EuroKom Web Server (the one you are connected to > now) runs on our COMPAQ 0 > Alpha cluster operating under OpenVMS. Our Web > Server is one of the fastest/ > available and, allied with the combination of  > OpenVMS on the Alpha5 > processor, we can deliver breathtaking performance.  > Our Server can host 5 > multiple domains, so the URL for your web page will  > be of the form1 > www.acme.ie. Our Internet feed is sufficient to  > ensure the fastest possible  > response to your browsers. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:48:25 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) H Subject: Re: check this out  Web hosting  On OpenVMS  (customer link...)0 Message-ID: <00A04FB9.2F1EF736@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <20011113145119.40744.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:m, >I tried to connect to them this morning and2 >was so slow. Probably the south american backbone >needs upgrade.4 >  >Where is ie ? Ireland ?=20r   Yeap.n   >  >Regards >: >FC=20  + They ought to consider upgrading their OSU:D  $ ALPHA$ telnet/port=80 www.eurokom.ie+ %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.135.225.92 ; %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host www.eurokom.ie, port 80n( -TELNET-I-ESCAPE, Escape character is ^] HEAD / HTTP/1.0t   HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden MIME-version: 1.0  Server: OSU/2.2  Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8bity  / -ERROR-(403):  Access to object is _ruled_ out.a Requested method: HEAD Requested URL:    /  HTTP protocol:    HTTP/1.0     Version 2.2 is rather old.   But they are running:n  = CISCO MultiNet V4.0 Rev B-X, Secure/IP V2.0, Web Server V1.0,41         AlphaServer 800 5/500, OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2>   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMF             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesc   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 18:18:57 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)aL Subject: Compaq and OSDN Create Clustering Foundry for Open Source Community' Message-ID: <9sro6h$evi$1@joe.rice.edu>b& Keywords: clustering,open,source,linux  F Perhaps VMS clustering technology won't be handed over to Microsoft...  4    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011113/datu006_1.htmlF    Compaq and OSDN Create Clustering Foundry for Open Source Community  D   "HOUSTON and ACTON, Mass., Nov. 13 /PRNewswire/ -- Compaq ComputerD    Corporation (NYSE: CPQ - news) and OSDN, a subsidiary of VA LinuxI    Systems, Inc. (Nasdaq: LNUX - news), today announced the launch of thedH    first-ever Clustering Foundry on SourceForge.net, the world's largestB    Open Source development Website. The SourceForge.net ClusteringH    Foundry makes Compaq's 20 years of research and expertise in the areaD    of compute and high-availability clustering available to the Open    Source community.  B    ``Compaq engineers have been developing and fine-tuning cluster@    technology for more than 20 years,'' said Gary Campbell, viceG    president of enterprise server strategy for the Office of the CTO atrE    Compaq. ``With our new clustering foundry, Compaq is providing theeG    first central place for the Open Source community to share ideas and3B    collaborate on clustering projects -- further solving importantA    business problems and propelling enterprise wide uses of Linuxt    technology.''  E    To make enterprise server clusters more manageable, Compaq has now F    released its Single System Image (SSI) Clustering Technology to theI    Open Source community. SSI treats multiple servers as if they were onewG    server, giving administrators and application users a single view ofcF    the cluster to simplify common system tasks such as load balancing,G    server expansion on demand, password sign-on, software upgrades, and     application access..."d  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:49:32 +0000t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-P Subject: Re: Compaq and OSDN Create Clustering Foundry for Open Source Community* Message-ID: <3BF16B3C.1838D0DC@virgin.net>   Jerry Leslie wrote:b  H > Perhaps VMS clustering technology won't be handed over to Microsoft... >s  D Compaq has the cheek to pretend this is current news!! Winkler firstJ announced this in June (after attempting to flog it to MS first I believe)M and the project has been underway for months. Here's what I said at the time.h Note Terry Shannon's comment.w  % From: Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) ;  Subject: Re: 3 Reasons why VMS is alive and probably well+t  Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  Date: 2001-07-05 12:49:48 PST     "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:c  9 > "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message % > news:3B449E39.C6682249@gtech.com...n > > Bob Marcan wrote:s > >t@ > > > C'mon, Arne. Did you read about clustering on Tru64 v5.1a?= > > > Did you try v5.1? They have lot inherited from the VMS.n > > @ > > I have noy tried Tru64 clustering, but I have read about it. > >0: > > You are correct, that it has inherited a lot from VMS. > >.E > > But what wil prevent Compaq from porting it from Tru64 to Linux ?i > >) >e> > Nothing, except perhaps common sense. Why give away the core differentiator?oH > If you do that, you might as well just contribute the whole OS to Open > Source and be done with it!   L But Compaq have just open sourced the Tru64 clustering code  as far as I canK see. In case you think the announcement just refers to a subset look at the  50G odd powerpoint slides where it becomes obvious everything is going. Thee SingleL System Image code from Tru64 is going as well. See www.opensource.compaq.com  & If you *know* different please say so.     --
 Alan Greig   >h6 >    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011113/datu006_1.htmlH >    Compaq and OSDN Create Clustering Foundry for Open Source Community >tF >   "HOUSTON and ACTON, Mass., Nov. 13 /PRNewswire/ -- Compaq ComputerF >    Corporation (NYSE: CPQ - news) and OSDN, a subsidiary of VA LinuxK >    Systems, Inc. (Nasdaq: LNUX - news), today announced the launch of theeJ >    first-ever Clustering Foundry on SourceForge.net, the world's largestD >    Open Source development Website. The SourceForge.net ClusteringJ >    Foundry makes Compaq's 20 years of research and expertise in the areaF >    of compute and high-availability clustering available to the Open >    Source community. >2D >    ``Compaq engineers have been developing and fine-tuning clusterB >    technology for more than 20 years,'' said Gary Campbell, viceI >    president of enterprise server strategy for the Office of the CTO at G >    Compaq. ``With our new clustering foundry, Compaq is providing the+I >    first central place for the Open Source community to share ideas and-D >    collaborate on clustering projects -- further solving importantC >    business problems and propelling enterprise wide uses of Linux  >    technology.'' >eG >    To make enterprise server clusters more manageable, Compaq has now7H >    released its Single System Image (SSI) Clustering Technology to theK >    Open Source community. SSI treats multiple servers as if they were onerI >    server, giving administrators and application users a single view ofaH >    the cluster to simplify common system tasks such as load balancing,I >    server expansion on demand, password sign-on, software upgrades, andn >    application access..."  >p6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:59:45 -0500(; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>l Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees?M$ Message-ID: <3bf15f79$1@news.si.com>  K >Resurrecting EV8 and succeeding with it would also be a suitable manner in D >which to emphasize the utter incompetence (and/or personal greed in defianceD >of their fiduciary obligations) of the unprincipled, lying bastardsJ >currently at the helm, and about the closest legal alternative to tarring; >and feathering them and riding them out of town on a rail.=  C Exactly why it will never happen.  Top execs never sully themselves=	 publicly.= --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comtA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com== 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent3< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:05:21 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble8 Message-ID: <jsq1vt8uep8s3lff02odrdmbfdfej0dtjn@4ax.com>  B On 12 Nov 2001 17:08:26 -0500, tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) wrote:    F >Okay, so a DEC 20 wouldn't sit around unnoticed for years -- that wasG >hyperbole, but only due to the sheer physical size of the hardware andCG >the volume of the sound it makes as it runs. :-)  Nonetheless, only in   B Back around 1988 the Dundee College of Technology 2060 finally wasE taken off maint. as it got surrounded by more and more VAXes. Not too A long after it died completely and was officially dead for severalhF months. I was working elsewhere but was extremely sad to see a machineC I'd used for over ten years die. Three months later I got a call toeC come in and as soon as I got out of the lift I thought I could hearuB the 20's fans running through two walls and above the level of theE main air-conditioners and all the VAXes.. Put it down to just wanting?B to hear it. Then turned a corner, glanced through the machine roomE window to see the single System On light glowing red. The FS engineereE (called in for a VAX problem) could not let one of the last remaininggB KLs in Scotland sit there dead and had re-jigged power and fans toC bypass failed regulators (without using DEC spares which would haveeB been theft) and the system ran for almost another two years before  failing beyond volunteer repair.  C So yes it was big and noisy but it really could run for a very longr= time unattended if some of the more sensitive components were 4 replaced/bypassed., Who remembers AIRFLOW CPU halts?  C Think we even had an UP2LONG BUGHLT as TOPS-20 assumed that if dataTE structures said it had been up for over a year something was wrong asr( PM should have been performed regularly!  F >the M$ world, as far as I know, is there a common perception that oneI >should need to periodically issue *any* command on a server in order form! >it to continue running normally.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:56:13 +1100e+ From: Toby Thain <toby@telegraphics.com.au>q( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble3 Message-ID: <3BF10A5D.A0406AB1@telegraphics.com.au>m   Bill Todd wrote: > 6 > Thor Lancelot Simon <tls@panix.com> wrote in message' > news:9sph5f$iu5$1@panix1.panix.com...r >  > ...e > I > > You must be from a Microsoft background.  It's not uncommon to find aeM > > Unix or a VMS or (once upon a time) a TOPS-20 mail server happily sittingtJ > > around in some dusty corner of a university exchanging traffic _years_N > > after the last person who even knew how to log into it has left the staff. > >eM > > In fact, I know of at least one case in which such a machine was *brickedrK > > up inside a wall* and kept running for several years before the problemc > > was noticed. > I > That's a gem on a par with the Irish National Railway's 17-year up-timeh, > experience.  It deserves to be documented.  % One such story (e.g. TechWeb article:pE http://content.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20010409S0012 , much quoted)p was memorably debunked (F http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2001-05/sunflash.20010521.3.html ):  H "...If it were a true story and 'Server 54' belonged to my organization,B I would identify and fire the system administrator responsible forF losing a server for four years."... He then added, "However, if I wereH to say that Server 54 really did exist and that it ran without attentionE for four years, and I'm not saying that it did, or where it was, thena> I'd bet it was running the Solaris[tm] Operating Environment."  5 IMHO only hitting the power switch will stop SunOS 4..   T.   >  > - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:55:29 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble3 Message-ID: <mKxnoOUoLAW9@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  W In article <9sph5f$iu5$1@panix1.panix.com>, tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon) writes:e > K > In fact, I know of at least one case in which such a machine was *brickedrI > up inside a wall* and kept running for several years before the problema > was noticed. >   B    Try that in a Microsoft add!  You'll end up seeing a PC used to    break down the wall.o   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:27:28 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)/( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble3 Message-ID: <DcNymzKq9DKY@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  a In article <3BF10A5D.A0406AB1@telegraphics.com.au>, Toby Thain <toby@telegraphics.com.au> writes:r > Bill Todd wrote:   > ' > One such story (e.g. TechWeb article:-G > http://content.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20010409S0012 , much quoted)  > was memorably debunked (H > http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2001-05/sunflash.20010521.3.html > ): > J > "...If it were a true story and 'Server 54' belonged to my organization,D > I would identify and fire the system administrator responsible forH > losing a server for four years."... He then added, "However, if I wereJ > to say that Server 54 really did exist and that it ran without attentionG > for four years, and I'm not saying that it did, or where it was, thenP@ > I'd bet it was running the Solaris[tm] Operating Environment." > 7 > IMHO only hitting the power switch will stop SunOS 4.p >     > 	Yeah, right.  Stop in which sense?  It hasn't been shut down?> 	Okay.  But how about stopped dead in its tracks?  Happens all< 	the time in the Eunuchs world.  My favorite sign to hang on@ 	my buddies' cubes here is:  "Free Space Checker Specialist."  I? 	try to not irritate them when they are fielding the haurangingE 	call "why were we down?"D  = 	/tmp has been filling up as long as I have been around Unix.l@ 	The more creative solution is to write a shell script that goes= 	out every 5 minutes and removes files in /tmp that are olderiB 	than a certain threshold.  Until of course the next time it fills? 	up, tweek the script.  Same script in various forms running ino! 	several different organizations.    	Eunuchs is broken.  Admit it.   				Robc   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:28:47 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>n- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickinglH Message-ID: <y4bsi78474.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  + leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:a  0 >    "No provision of this Final Judgment shall: > K >    1.Require Microsoft to document, disclose or license to third parties: C >    (a) portions of APIs or Documentation or portions or layers ofIJ >    Communications Protocols the disclosure of which would compromise theE >    security of anti-piracy, anti-virus, software licensing, digitalAG >    rights management, encryption or authentication systems, includingeB >    without limitation, keys, authorization tokens or enforcement >    criteria;B >    or (b) any API, interface or other information related to anyJ >    Microsoft product if lawfully directed not to do so by a governmental' >    agency of competent jurisdiction."   F The two clauses are quite reasonable - all will depend on how they areE administered. (b) is a restatement of what other laws require anyway.iH (a) is similar to saying that DEC would not need to publish the detailedH workings of LMF, or how the original DECnet-IV licenses operated - givenG the DMCA or even the more reasonable rules in Europe, this is again notgH much more than a restatement of legal requirements. (After all, any suchE agreement cannot result in Microsoft abdicating all its rights in itso software, can it?)  I I disagree that the DRM clause (which would be difficult to differentiatepI technically from something implementing anti-piracy or software licensingsG restrictions anyway) is going to be a problem. See Dan Walach's article D "Copy Protection is Doomed" in October's Computer for why this is so4 (http://www.computer.org/computer/co2001/rxtoc.htm).   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:36:48 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> - Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingH Message-ID: <y48zdb83tr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  E > so your point is there are only some half good alternatives to vms?cG > what else is there? unix and linux (gag)?  I was on os400 for a month@< > and that's about all I could take on it?  any other ideas?   Tandem, S/390.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:44:42 +0000a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: Compaq: VMS is alive and kickingO) Message-ID: <3BF0EB8A.71A00904@127.0.0.1>e   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > , > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > G > > so your point is there are only some half good alternatives to vms?EI > > what else is there? unix and linux (gag)?  I was on os400 for a month.> > > and that's about all I could take on it?  any other ideas? >  > Tandem, S/390.  + The S/390 is the Z series now for big blue.   E OS400 does take some getting used to, and it's sooooo long winded forsF doing the simplest things, I can understand strugling for a month, but5 at least it is vaguely logical when compared to UnIx.0   -- ,( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comb   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:57:28 GMTe' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>r! Subject: Re: DECNET task questioni+ Message-ID: <3BF15F61.A29B94E2@pacbell.net>n  F I think a read from the server process to SYS$NET will return an errorG at that point. From DCL I don't think there's any other way to find outN the connection dropped.y DonO   JF Mezei wrote:y > P > If I have a command procedure CHOCOLATE.COM in my SYS$LOGIN, and CHOCOLATE.COMM > run CHOCOLATE.EXE which assigns a channel to SYS$NET to do input/output, ittI > should be able to communicate to the process that invoked it, correct ?l >  > eg:u= > node1: OPEN/READ/WRITE test node2"user pass"::"0=CHOCOLATE"N# >           WRITE TEST "GET RECIPE"r >           READ TEST mysymbol >           etc etcd > F > this would execute chocolate.com on node2 and execute chocolate.exe. > J > Now, inside CHOCOLATE.EXE, what happens when the client process on node1N > closes the link (or decnet goes down).  Does the application get any controlN > messages or is the image $FORCEXed automatically without any warning and the, > process returns to running netserver.exe ? > P > I have written some server processes that declare decnet objects and those getP > the whole load of control messages over incoming requests and am wondering howP > much of that code could be re-used to write a simpler "on demand" program that3 > would run only when a user requests that service.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:27:23 +0000h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width 8 Message-ID: <3ho1vt406fgqjgh5j161jnfmjnjh6v4sgo@4ax.com>  E On 13 Nov 2001 06:03:46 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>a wrote:  2 >Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes: > F >> > Strongly agree.  It's embarressing in front of my U*x colleagues. > I >> As well as an inconvenient in practice (he adds as an afterthought :^)t >cD >You should not be, Unix's terminal code can't edit anything to saveB >it life! Most of the shells can, but that does not help the other@ >applications. The TT driver one line edit was done so there was< >still some editing for apps when DCL is out of the picture. >13 >The editing in DCL is another whole ball of wax...@  @ Perhaps someone could implement the TOPS-20 TEXTI and COMND JSYSE (system services)  during the IA64 port.... If DEC could get it right D in the mid 70s there's no excuse for VMS today. The excuse back then= for making it a non-goal was that Dave Cutler didn't like thetD overhead. No I don't really expect this to be done for the IA64 portE but the lack of a COMND style command interface still irks me to thisnD day, TOPS-20 from around V5 onwards also supported VMS style command3 line editing *and* EMACS like command line editing.n  . From http://www.opost.com/dlm/tenex/hbook.html  " Origins and Development of TOPS-20
 by Dan Murphy0% Copyright (c) 1989, 1996 - Dan Murphyn   The COMND Servicen  D Another interesting step was the development of the COMND JSYS. ThisE system call provides a set of services to implement the TOPS-20 styleDE of command interface (escape recognition, question-mark help, etc. ashD discussed previously). It was not, however, part of TENEX as it cameC from BBN. Rather, those interface characteristics were individuallyaE coded in each program that supported them, and in fact, only the EXECaB supported them in general. Other programs typically supported onlyF recognition of file names, since that was provided by the GTJFN systemD call. Even basic command line editing (rubout to delete a character,> control-U to erase the line, etc.) was not centralized and was8 provided more or less or not at all by various programs.  F The need for centralized command line editing was addressed earlier inF the TOPS-20 development by the addition of the TEXTI JSYS (and relatedD subsets RDTXT and RDLINE). The increasing use of video terminals had: made the ad hoc provisions of the various utility programsE particularly glaring. With TEXTI, we undertook to both centralize the.@ line editing functions and to make them sensitive to the type of@ terminal being used. At that time, taking advantage of the videoE terminal's ability to erase a character or line was still impressive. F Some systems had been able to add at least a minimum of video terminalD line editing support because they only supported line input, and theA line buffering was done centrally. TENEX had been designed with abD maximum of terminal flexibility however and so had no general way ofD editing input. The TEXTI JSYS provided many options so that it could9 be used as well by programs that wanted more or less thano line-at-a-time input.m  E Implementing a centralized command input library was not, however, angD item that appeared on our schedules. Within the last year before theC system shipped, we had identified and were working on a few utilityaC programs that needed specific improvements. One of these was DUMPERf; (the disk-to-tape backup and restore utility), and it had aa? particularly bad command interface. I had the task of improvinggD DUMPER's user interface to meet some minimal level of acceptability,A but I had been procrastinating doing anything about it because itcA would be a rather routine and boring task. In the meantime, I hadSC started thinking about how this style of command interface could beu/ centralized into a set of functions and tables.   B Because of the highly interactive nature of the interface, partial@ execution of the program itself is necessary during input of the@ command. For example, if file name recognition is attempted, theB defaults and any other pertinent context must be available so thatC failure or success can be determined. However, the program must not E take any irrevocable action until the command is confirmed (typically0D with a carriage return) so that the user can erase all or part of itC with the line editing keys. Even the original TENEX Exec didn't get C this quite right. The user could erase the entire command line withnE control-U, but could not delete backward more than the current field.eD In other words, the Exec knew how to flush all state for the currentB line and start over, and it knew how to delete characters from theF current field before it was completed, but it didn't know how to flush< part of the state and backup into a field already completed.  C My idea for solving the backup problem was not to backup at all but B rather save the command text and then rescan it from the beginningF with the unwanted part removed. With that idea and a list of functionsC to handle the various kinds of fields that would occur in a commandpE line, I started writing a library-type facility instead of just pointmE enhancements to DUMPER. Of course, DUMPER was intended to be, and did2A become, the first program to use new facility, but by the time ofa@ TOPS-20's first release, these command parsing routines had beenE integrated into the monitor as the COMND JSYS. Most utilities had notnD been modified to use it however, and the Exec still had its original= parsing code. Correcting all this was done in later releases.e   ===== END QUOTED ARTICLE=====n  C Btw. One of the three available PDP-10 emulators (KLH) now has fullyE KL-10 support  and can boot TOPS-20 V7. Previously available emulatorwF KS-10 support limited us to TOPS-20 V4.1. Supposedly the ethernet codeF is working and supporting TOPS-20 TCPIP V4 through the host system butE haven't had a chance to try it yet. That means telnet, ftp, smtp mail 4 should all be usable. See alt.sys.pdp10 for details. -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 08:04:51 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)nM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width 3 Message-ID: <QRICtUVgGX1C@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  ` In article <3ho1vt406fgqjgh5j161jnfmjnjh6v4sgo@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > B > Perhaps someone could implement the TOPS-20 TEXTI and COMND JSYSG > (system services)  during the IA64 port.... If DEC could get it righty1 > in the mid 70s there's no excuse for VMS today.i  G    I can't for the life of me understand calling the COMND JSYS getting A    it right.  Working with TOPS-20 was so painfull I went out ando    learned BLISS-10.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:09:53 +0000n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthm8 Message-ID: <vjd2vt0e30sit7172carngs09tq1ihidbb@4ax.com>  F On 13 Nov 2001 08:04:51 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  a >In article <3ho1vt406fgqjgh5j161jnfmjnjh6v4sgo@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:* >> cC >> Perhaps someone could implement the TOPS-20 TEXTI and COMND JSYS H >> (system services)  during the IA64 port.... If DEC could get it right2 >> in the mid 70s there's no excuse for VMS today. >uH >   I can't for the life of me understand calling the COMND JSYS gettingB >   it right.  Working with TOPS-20 was so painfull I went out and >   learned BLISS-10.t  ? I can't make sense of the above. If working with TOPS-20 was so F painful why would learning BLISS-10 make things easier? Ok BLISS-10/20F was free and BLISS-36 expensive but I am confused. The best high level@ interface to COMND (IMHO)  was provided by Rutgers Pascal (Chuck= Hedrick) but it wasn't exactly hard to use even from MACRO-10e assembler. i   What was it you found painful ?  -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:22:15 -0500i From: R.J.S.@not.a.netM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthg8 Message-ID: <f0i2vtgud9k0no6l6qs1mae018mebv5tuh@4ax.com>  F >On 13 Nov 2001 06:03:46 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> >wrote:a  A >Perhaps someone could implement the TOPS-20 TEXTI and COMND JSYScF >(system services)  during the IA64 port.... If DEC could get it rightE >in the mid 70s there's no excuse for VMS today. The excuse back then > >for making it a non-goal was that Dave Cutler didn't like theE >overhead. No I don't really expect this to be done for the IA64 portoF >but the lack of a COMND style command interface still irks me to thisE >day, TOPS-20 from around V5 onwards also supported VMS style command 4 >line editing *and* EMACS like command line editing.  E Stan Rabinowitz did it, way, way back in 1981 or so.  VMS didn't want B to include the functionality, because they said it would "slow theF command parser down too much".  Many felt the real reason was that theD person who wrote the first DCL parser for VMS didn't think of it, so' it was unacceptable.  NIH and all that.W   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:23:55 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>sM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthc+ Message-ID: <3BF1653B.96D42A2A@caltech.edu>r   R.J.S.@not.a.net wrote:r > H > >On 13 Nov 2001 06:03:46 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>	 > >wrote:u > C > >Perhaps someone could implement the TOPS-20 TEXTI and COMND JSYSeH > >(system services)  during the IA64 port.... If DEC could get it rightG > >in the mid 70s there's no excuse for VMS today. The excuse back thenn@ > >for making it a non-goal was that Dave Cutler didn't like theG > >overhead. No I don't really expect this to be done for the IA64 portrH > >but the lack of a COMND style command interface still irks me to thisG > >day, TOPS-20 from around V5 onwards also supported VMS style commandu6 > >line editing *and* EMACS like command line editing. > G > Stan Rabinowitz did it, way, way back in 1981 or so.  VMS didn't want D > to include the functionality, because they said it would "slow theH > command parser down too much".  Many felt the real reason was that theF > person who wrote the first DCL parser for VMS didn't think of it, so) > it was unacceptable.  NIH and all that.   B The odds of ever seeing this seem remote at this time, but why not implement anA API that allow hooks directly into DCL bypassing (in a sense) thei terminal/ driver completely.  Something like (C binding):r  =   int DCL$OPEN_ACCESS(HANDLE *thehandle, TERMINFO *theterm); uE     /* open/initialize API access to DCL and also identify for it theE terminal emulation>     (if any) through theterm.  This would also hook sys$Input, sys$Output and sys$error toyF     AST driven routines so that interactive programs could be serviced as if they were talking >     to a terminal.  One field in the HANDLE structure would be MAXDCLLINE, so if longer lines6     are added the same code would continue to work. */H   int DCL$CLOSE_ACCESS(HANDLE *thehandle); /* close API access to DCL */G   int DCL$RECALL_COUNT(HANDLE *thehandle): /* return number of lines ino recall buffer */D   int DCL$RECALL_LINE_LENGTH(HANDLE *thehandle, int line): /* return length of recall line */ -G   int DCL$RECALL_RETRIEVE(HANDLE *thehandle, char *buffer, int bufsize,u int line); iF            /* return the specified RECALL line into the buffer of size
 bufsize */F   int DCL$EXECUTE_LINE(HANDLE *thehandle, char *buffer, int bufsize); =            /* stuff a command line into DCL and execute it */   E Given that API, one could relatively easily hack up a favorite editort (assuming thatG source code is available) to allow arbitrarily long command line entry,n retrieval, editing, E and even execution of interactive terminal based programs.  And there  could be a true X11 version C (perhaps based on NEDIT) and a serial version (based on TPU or even  pico.)  The serial versionE doesn't even have to implement terminal emulation internally, it justi has to relay sys$*G connections across to the real terminal/terminal emulator living on thet user end of the line.      Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:50:28 +0100l& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de> Subject: Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMSd$ Message-ID: <3BF11714.167E@c-lab.de>   Alan Greig wrote:  > B > On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:23:39 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> > wrote: > H > >I use emacs 20.7.1 under W2K and I would have thought that that would/ > >have been a more difficult port than to VMS.  > E > Not if it's built using cygwin (or even MS Posix) libraries. cygwin H > gives you effectively a linux environment under Windows. Don't know if > W2K EMACS uses it though.   H Looked yesterday evening in the source of 20.4 (well, just what I had on@ CDs at home), there is a separate directory for NT with a cannedE config.h and NMAKE Nmakefiles (Nmakefile is, of course, an abbrev for'F 'not a Makefile'...) And no, the Win32 port is made with Visual C, notF the cygwin stuff. And the POSIX subsystem cannot be used, because then; you would not have any windows (not to mention networking).8  H On the plus side: all of the VMS 4 and 5 special low level functions are  still in the main src directory.  H If it doesn't dump correctly, as Roar said, then it hopefully only seemsB to be the 'usual' problem of either newer VMS versions introducingD slight changes (including libraries, linkers and so on), or somethig; else in the main code has poisoned the dump functionality. oD This is also not unknown for the UNIXes, considering the comments in other unexXXX.c modules...   -- -* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 05:56:22 -0800k# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t Subject: RE: Emacs-2[01] on VMSr9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBDDJAA.tom@kednos.com>a  J After reading the mail on this and similar topics, it seems to me that the wisestB way to "port' emacs is to provide a unix style environment, as was originally envisionedoK by the likes of Posix.  Emacs is not the last program to be desired on VMS,p and why reinvent2 the wheel for each port.  Time to bite the bullet.   > -----Original Message-----/ > From: Michael Joosten [mailto:joost@c-lab.de]e* > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma! > Subject: Re: Emacs-2[01] on VMS  >m >o > Alan Greig wrote:c > >nD > > On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:23:39 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>
 > > wrote: > > J > > >I use emacs 20.7.1 under W2K and I would have thought that that would1 > > >have been a more difficult port than to VMS.e > > G > > Not if it's built using cygwin (or even MS Posix) libraries. cygwinfJ > > gives you effectively a linux environment under Windows. Don't know if > > W2K EMACS uses it though.i > J > Looked yesterday evening in the source of 20.4 (well, just what I had onB > CDs at home), there is a separate directory for NT with a cannedG > config.h and NMAKE Nmakefiles (Nmakefile is, of course, an abbrev forEH > 'not a Makefile'...) And no, the Win32 port is made with Visual C, notH > the cygwin stuff. And the POSIX subsystem cannot be used, because then= > you would not have any windows (not to mention networking).r >sJ > On the plus side: all of the VMS 4 and 5 special low level functions are" > still in the main src directory. >aJ > If it doesn't dump correctly, as Roar said, then it hopefully only seemsD > to be the 'usual' problem of either newer VMS versions introducingF > slight changes (including libraries, linkers and so on), or somethig< > else in the main code has poisoned the dump functionality.F > This is also not unknown for the UNIXes, considering the comments in > other unexXXX.c modules... >e > --, > Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de, > Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany. > Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 606065: > C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS >i   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:43:08 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)@# Subject: Re: File Organisation helpa3 Message-ID: <BvghJ$8K375O@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  j In article <311b5884.0111120418.70fed521@posting.google.com>, juanr@ctad.co.uk (Susana Villanueva) writes:H > Hello I'm very new in this and haven't got much clue, so probably thisF > question will sounds very silly but I would appreciatte it any help. > G > At uni we are learning about file organisation and have been given ansF > exercise to do.  I've got an sample of VMS Commands and their outputG > showing the way in which a simple VMS text file is stored.  I need tohH > study and describe the precise method used for storing each text line. >   
    Clue 1:  E       A simple VMS text file can be stored in a wide variety of ways.e@       It doesn't use a one-size-fits-all brain dead file system.  
    Clue 2:  B       Look hard at those bytes which are not printable characters."       Then do you're own homework.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:19:05 +0100 * From: dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons)  Subject: Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPYP Message-ID: <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-3orzdO0pDdWd@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>  Y On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:39:28, "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote:h  * > On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Dave Parsons wrote: > [...]v- > >+> ftp://ftp.madgoat.com/madgoat/mgpcx.zipr > >+B > >+Does this restore the VMS long file name on the NT machine and5 > >+does it work NT to VMS also with long file names?  >  >  Unfortunatelly no.a5 >  But you can move the long names using simple trickh4 > with ZIP: pack the file(s) on VMS side to ZIP file > and unpack on Windows.   Yes, thanks for the reply.? That is what I have been doing for a few years now. It was justa@ a hope that maybe someone had written a more transparent utility by now.h   Regards, Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:42:06 +0100-* From: dwparsons@t-online.de (Dave Parsons)  Subject: Re: FORMATTING A FLOPPYP Message-ID: <Ej0w7lFo08Zw-pn2-fRljGCl82fzN@jupiter.dwparsons.dialin.t-online.de>  C On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:37:03, Sergey Tikhonov <tsv@solvo.ru> wrote:t   > Hello, > ^ > Look at MTOOLS package on OpenVMS Freeware. It is port of mtools utilities from Unix to VMS.! > It does support long filenames.  >   3 Yes so I gather. I will take a look at the weekend.    Thanks,l Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 10:01:18 GMT- From: forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh)a Subject: Re: free global pages) Message-ID: <9sqr1e$p95$3@news.panix.com>l  ) emanuel stiebler (emu@ecubics.com) wrote:  : Hi,lG : while installing software, I got the message, that I have to increases$ : "the number of free global pages".7 : However, I didn't find anything about it in the docs.b : So, how can I do this ?b : It's on VMS 5.5-1h : cheers & thanks a lott  ; Don't know about 5.5, but you probably want to run autogen.dC Look at part II of the OpenVMS System Manager's Manual, Chapter 15,-  from www.openvms.compaq.com:8000K      If it's like 7.2, add the appropriate line to sys$system:modparams.dat B (maybe gblpagecnt=xxxx or min_gblpagecnt, or something like that),B and then run  @sys$update:autogen savparams testfiles  followed by- @sys$update:autogen genparams reboot feedbackE   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:30:52 -0800+ From: Kor.Rinkens@libertel.nl (Kor Rinkens)k Subject: Re: free global pages= Message-ID: <6a144f39.0111130630.3b2d0929@posting.google.com>   [ emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com> wrote in message news:<3BF0B6E0.5FCF80C5@ecubics.com>...t > Hi, G > while installing software, I got the message, that I have to increaset$ > "the number of free global pages".7 > However, I didn't find anything about it in the docs.e > So, how can I do this ?f >  > It's on VMS 5.5-1f >  > cheers & thanks a lota   There are two ways to do thisF   1********************r   $ mc sysgent sysgen> use currents sysgen> show gblpages $ increase the number off global pages sysgen> set gblpages 200000m sysgen> write currentr sysgen> exit   Reboot your system  
 2 ***********o Better todo is d   $edit sys$system:modparams.dat  * look for gblpages and increase the number   , or put  the following line in modparams.dat    MIN_GBLPAGES = 200000    save the file and run autogene  / $ @sys$update:autogen savparams reboot feedbackc  ' or if you have no feedback information e  1 $ @sys$system:autogen savparams reboot nofeedbackh  I autogen also adjusts other parameters which are too low or too high, likea   the parameter GBLSECTIONS.   Regards Kor    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:37:51 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o@ Subject: Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted3 Message-ID: <bluteIG$NDwP@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  i In article <3BEF9339.FD6C534A@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:f > John Eisenschmidt wrote:K >> Are we talking about what you have to use or what you have to work with?o >>  X >> As far as what you have to use, Java is as minimal as C. Look at Hello World in Java: >> a >> public class HelloWorld {/ >>   public static void main( String Args[] ) {a. >>     System.out.println( "Hello World!\n" );. >>     System.exit( 0 );  // terminate program >>   } >> } >>        That's minimal?  Try this:t      type *,'Hello World!'    end   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:37:07 GMTC= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)L+ Subject: Re: Garage Sale... Hey, Hobbyists! 0 Message-ID: <00A04FB7.9B79D463@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <00A04582.DF479E7C@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:L >I have some equipment (likely more in the near future) that I am willing toK >part with and that would make a great addition to some of the Hobbyist VMSnL >systems out there.  Much of it is boxed up in my basement and the boxes areL >being used as scratch posts by Hobbes (that's the cat).  I'm taking it away& >to the remote storage garage for now. > K >I've compiled a list of some of the things I'm taking to storage today andfE >this list is available here:  http://www.tmesis.com/garage_sale.htmle > L >This is all working equipment -- most used.  I will initialize and test all$ >disk drives before letting them go. >f >--cP >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >           K >  "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery hJ >  intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes >-  J Thanks to all of you that responded and congrats to those of you that wereK able to get the bits and pieces I offered.  I've taken the web page down ascK all of the equipment is gone.  I have one small package which remains to beo sent out.  Wow, the space! :)0  K The response was overwhelming.  I'll have to approach this differently nextgL time out.  I tried to satisfy the requests on a first-come first-serve basisK so as to be as fair as possible.  All of you that asked and did not receive(? were simply beat out by others with, perhaps, faster newsfeeds.g  L Two fellows from MD (names withheld to protect the hardware hoarders ;) cameL by on Sunday and took a large load off my hands.  They bought me lunch and 2K Guinness at a local watering hole too.  The rest has been sent to shipping.   M I do hope that those receiving this equipment will reimburse me for shipping.iL We are on an honor system here and it will certainly affect how I handle any5 future giveaways if I am not reimbursed for shipping.C  K Thanks again for the floor space to fill with new equipment and for the bigtL smile on my wife's face seeing all of this equipment traversing the doorjamb in an outward direction.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            :J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes6   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:51:11 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>+ Subject: Re: Garage Sale... Hey, Hobbyists! ) Message-ID: <3BF14F7E.190035D0@127.0.0.1>   & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >   sM > Thanks again for the floor space to fill with new equipment and for the bigoN > smile on my wife's face seeing all of this equipment traversing the doorjamb > in an outward direction.  F Brian, that's the problem. When I move kit out making space to swapperD for newer kit, I get the furrowed eyebrows. She'll plan to do things) with the space, so better claim it quick!a  E I have a technique of using a modifed page^H^H^H^H kit cache, where IyB introduce the newer bits them make her smile by shifting the older stuff.   -- h( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:53:56 +0100 & From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>' Subject: Here comes the Compaq spin ...a* Message-ID: <3BF15E34.D8AE74BF@dplanet.ch>  F At URL http://www.theinquirer.net/13110111.htm an article "Compaq: why the Itanium beats theAB Alpha" attempts to justify the dropping of Alpha in favour of IPF.  G I was unimpressed.  We've heard most of their justifications before andP- they don't gain credibility with each repeat.I    1 A tip - don't read the article after eating   ;-)      John McLeano   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:55:26 +0100c) From: "Pio Baettig" <baettig@hotmail.com> + Subject: Re: Here comes the Compaq spin ...h+ Message-ID: <3bf16bdb@siufuxsun02.unifr.ch>    Cool :-)B > It concludes: "The two ItaniumT Processor Family microprocessorsD > that arescheduled to follow Merced, McKinley and Madison, are wellC > underway. Intel  have announced their plans to be sampling thesenI > microprocessors by the end of 2001, with the expectation that they willw how 1 > up in systems to be available in mid-year 2002.t? > Both of these icroprocessors are expected to have significant @ > gains in performance over Merced, over 50% according to Intel.  F Put the clock frequency from 800Mc to 1.2..1.3 Gc et voila 50 percent.A (And still some fifty percent slower than an Alpha from 2001....)nE Will McKinley and Madison come after their successors? (I thought McKaC was scheduled for ~mid 2002, how can systems of their successors be)	 available  at that date??    A > There really is no new work in the microprocessor core for EV7.cG > Our innovation in EV7 is focused on system and server level features,)H > especially driving the integration of the system onto a single chip in order 7 > to deliver a truly seamless scalable SMP environment.dF > For CPU-specific benchmarks, especially those that do not stress theB > memory, I/O or SMP environments, EV7 will perform about the same2 > level as a comparable speed EV68 microprocessor.  F Does this mean (bse gesagt), there's only some additional cache and aC better memory-bus in EV7 or do I overlook a fact? I thought I heardiJ something else (Someone from Cpq/Switzerland told me at Orbit one year agoK that this processor (once more) would be faster than anything else. Are CPQ*5 now trying to make their product look bad in advance? 6 (Hey, don't buy it, it'll suck but Itanic is FASTER)?? .r  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in messagee$ news:3BF15E34.D8AE74BF@dplanet.ch... > H > At URL http://www.theinquirer.net/13110111.htm an article "Compaq: why > the Itanium beats theeD > Alpha" attempts to justify the dropping of Alpha in favour of IPF. >eI > I was unimpressed.  We've heard most of their justifications before and / > they don't gain credibility with each repeat.r >. >n3 > A tip - don't read the article after eating   ;-)d >  >I
 > John McLean    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:49:35 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>y; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!aH Message-ID: <y4668f838g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:-  0 > English is case-sensitive, even if DCL is not.  G Well, it's more that human beings are case-sensitive, in the sense thatDM our perception works better and faster (i.e., less compute resources required3H for the actual reading, and more available for comprehension) when mixed
 case is used.n   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:44:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!l3 Message-ID: <BnrlFQpYm0JF@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <y4668f838g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:N > 1 >> English is case-sensitive, even if DCL is not.' > I > Well, it's more that human beings are case-sensitive, in the sense thathO > our perception works better and faster (i.e., less compute resources requiredoJ > for the actual reading, and more available for comprehension) when mixed > case is used.t  C Written English is a set of rules for setting down the spoken wordst< in a graphic format to facilitate reading and comprehension.  > i kud ryght stough inn calmprihenssible weighs igknorrinn rulz! buht knot yousingh rytin ingglyshd   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:48:27 +0000 (UTC)o, From: tontonTh <tontonTh@po.reynerie.yi.org>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! 8 Message-ID: <slrn9v25kr.h58.tontonTh@po.reynerie.yi.org>  J In article <BnrlFQpYm0JF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Larry Kilgallen wrote: > E > Written English is a set of rules for setting down the spoken words-> > in a graphic format to facilitate reading and comprehension. > @ > i kud ryght stough inn calmprihenssible weighs igknorrinn rulz# > buht knot yousingh rytin ingglysho   	your rot13 is broken ?d   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:12:02 GMT   From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!t+ Message-ID: <3BF16286.8F2508F6@prodigy.net>g    Yes, but English is so "legacy."   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > 1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:e > 2 > > English is case-sensitive, even if DCL is not. > I > Well, it's more that human beings are case-sensitive, in the sense that O > our perception works better and faster (i.e., less compute resources requireduJ > for the actual reading, and more available for comprehension) when mixed > case is used.s > 
 >         Jann   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 08:46:24 GMT3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)sO Subject: Re: HP co-founder's son hires firm to gather opposition to Compaq dealu, Message-ID: <9sqml0$lsf@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  + In article <3BED8D5A.7FE3CB7@videotron.ca>,e/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a > L >But if this is to be a long drawn out battle, Compaq might die before it is  >over, making the purchase moot.  H   Another reason for a company to propose a buyout of a competitor is toL allow it full access to its books, then if the deal falls through, they haveK intimate knowledge of their competitor as well as a year of putting them oniM hold.  This is why the Echostar deal to buy Hughes is a win-win for Echostar.vN Like Hughes, if the merger gets canned, Compaq will not be in very good shape, while HP could go on.    -- Vance Haemmerles vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:34:35 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h1 Subject: Re: HP merger: new take VMS to Agilent ?u3 Message-ID: <HB7ujDahxBj5@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <3BEE63F8.2D14D163@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:% > HP used to mean high quality stuff.1 > ? > HP got rid of its high quality stuff, spinning it to Agilent.0  D    When HP stil built those high quality instruments, they sold us aC    few workstations, and we excpeted them to have simmilar quality.r  G    They managed to include two pieces of junk.  The only credit I couldn<    give them is that they soon dropped the worst of the two.  F    There software has always looked good, and been a PITA to use (ever2    try to add a custom icon to the CDE dashboard?)  G    That's one thing which clearly bothers me about HP maybe owning VMS.o9    I hope VMS engineering can keep HP quality out of VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:57:34 +0100x& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> Subject: IBM to bid for CPQ ??* Message-ID: <3BF15F0E.ACA8C1F9@dplanet.ch>  . Not being one to let a good rumour go past ...   IBM to bid for CPQ?   E Article at http://www.theinquirer.net/13110115.htm  suggests that IBMeC might mount a hostile bid for Compaq "and cut off HP at the gulch".e    Now that would be interesting ..     John McLean    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:33:31 GMT   From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??+ Message-ID: <3BF1678E.93D12DD9@prodigy.net>w  L I assume the CPQ folks would then again change gears and we'd start to hear ) about how great NonStop Power-4s will be?p   John McLean wrote: > 0 > Not being one to let a good rumour go past ... >  > IBM to bid for CPQ?l > G > Article at http://www.theinquirer.net/13110115.htm  suggests that IBM+E > might mount a hostile bid for Compaq "and cut off HP at the gulch".  > " > Now that would be interesting .. > 
 > John McLeano   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:51:06 +0010t' From: <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> / Subject: Re: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipmentst5 Message-ID: <01KAO18CTYDU000D6W@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Jerry Leslie wrote:t  > >Just the normal teething pains of a new processor design ?... >b+ >   http://www.theinquirer.net/12110106.htmi& >   Itanium bug halts Compaq shipments >   Other OEMs still shippinge  	 [snipped]   F Compaq is being honest??  Well, it is the field that it considers its ! bread-and-butter, but honesty ...D   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:35:17 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)o/ Subject: Re: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipmentsc' Message-ID: <9sqpgl$h3j$1@joe.rice.edu>t  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: : Jerry Leslie wrote:s : @ : >Just the normal teething pains of a new processor design ?... : > - : >   http://www.theinquirer.net/12110106.htm ( : >   Itanium bug halts Compaq shipments : >   Other OEMs still shippingu :c : [snipped]l :lH : Compaq is being honest??  Well, it is the field that it considers its # : bread-and-butter, but honesty ...l :n  ? But Hewlett-Packard is still shipping its Itanium systems, per:t  L   http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=31355'   Compaq Won't Ship Itanium Systems Yet =   Says processor failed standards tests; Intel not confirmingt  F   "...Intel's spokesman noted that about 20 other major server vendors?   are now shipping Itanium-based systems. Those vendors include.B   Hewlett-Packard, Palo Alto, Calif., which has pending a proposed   merger with Compaq."   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 10:19:42 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)t/ Subject: Re: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipments ' Message-ID: <9sqs3u$jd0$1@joe.rice.edu>-  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: : Jerry Leslie wrote:i :t@ : >Just the normal teething pains of a new processor design ?... : >4- : >   http://www.theinquirer.net/12110106.htm ( : >   Itanium bug halts Compaq shipments : >   Other OEMs still shipping@ :b : [snipped]  :iH : Compaq is being honest??  Well, it is the field that it considers its # : bread-and-butter, but honesty ...s   Update:e  *    http://www.theinquirer.net/13110104.htm&    Compaq testing new Itanic stepping   )   "By Mike Magee, 13/11/2001 10:10:54 BSTa  G    INTEL HAS INTRODUCED a new stepping of its Itanium 733/800MHz 64-bittG    processors in a frantic bid to fix an erratum which only Compaq, itsl3    customers and the INQUIRER seem to have noticed.t  F    Sources inside the Intel fabs tell us that around 10 days ago IntelI    started producing stepping C1, intended to replace the C0 which is thee    stepping that has the bug.l  I    Intel appears pretty desperate to keep the bug under its hat - and hasuE    introduced a new term called "sightings" which is used to describe     problems with processors.  ?    "Sightings" isn't quite as risible as "errata" but gives theeF    impression that mistakes or bugs in chips are a bit like spotting a=    Great Crested Grebe in the middle of the Sahara Desert..."-  G Didn't Intel try to keep the Pentium FDIV bug under its hat, until somev8 folks at Jet Propulsion Laboratory talked to the media ?   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:31:34 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: Re: Itanium Bug Halts Compaq Shipmentsr= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111130631.655bd9c6@posting.google.com>A  X leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote in message news:<9sqeps$6na$1@joe.rice.edu>...? > Just the normal teething pains of a new processor design ?...l > , >    http://www.theinquirer.net/12110106.htm' >    Itanium bug halts Compaq shipments  >    Other OEMs still shipping > + >    By Mike Magee, 12/11/2001 09:50:17 BST/ > H >   "CORPORATE USERS wanting to buy Itanium machines are being told thatK >    the processors are going through rigorous testing but the INQUIRER can,J >    now confirm there is a serious bug with 733MHz and 800MHz versions of1 >    the processor preventing them from shipping.b > J >    According to a source at a large Swiss bank - Compaq - one of Intel'sJ >    major PC customers has warned it that there are reliability and otherG >    problems in the die of the processor that prevent the product frome >    being shipped.o > G >    We first reported the problem with the Itanium processor two weeksn	 >    ago.o > G >    Other, major PC customers, however, are shipping products as InteleI >    frantically attempts to resolve the erratum, or errata, before going  >    public with the problems. > K >    The T6 problem, as we first reported here, will not affect shipment of K >    the up-and-coming McKinley processor but is associated with the 64-bitT- >    product that Intel first shipped in May.i > K >    The news is a serious blow to Intel, coming as it does after a failureaA >    to ship the Itanium processor for what seemed like years..."d >  > 6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  L better keep making and developing those alphas compaq, or you may not have a: reliable 64 bit platform to offer customers for some time!   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:49:12 -0800 From: mjenkins@jcn.net (MikeWJ)t Subject: Items for sale!= Message-ID: <42d0e8ed.0111130649.7539aba5@posting.google.com>   C I have these items to sell.  If interested, please call me, Mike atwF 314-552-8666 or Dave at 314-552-8506.  Serious inquiries only, please.   Looking to sell:  '  24 VT terminals (VT220, VT320, VT420),o   31 VT keyboards (LK201, LK401),   3 Remote Console Switches,   3 Decserver 200/MC,    1 Decserver 250,   9 LA75 printers,   1 LA424 Printer,   1 LP29 printer,m   1 LG02 printer,e   1 LG31 printer,r   1 LPS20 printer,   1 LPS32 printer,   1 LN06 (Declaser 2200),y   2 VXT2000 Desktop units,   1 VXT1000 Desktop unit,l"   1 StorageWorks 800 media cabinetC     (HSD50 controller, 4 BA350 shelves, (28) 2-GB HD's, (2) TL7L's r      & (1) TLZ9 4mm tape units)n#   2 VAX 4505a's (each has 2 RF72's)n%   1 Microvax 3300 w/HD extension box.a'      Other miscellaneous VAX equipment.C  F May have another 3300 in the parts bin.  If so, will add to this list.   Thanks.l   MikeWJ   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:46:58 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: LIB$xxx3 Message-ID: <y4yQw1WDEf5O@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3BEFD95B.C36EB27@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  > Bob Koehler wrote:O >>    Then remember OS/360/?? where COPY was a CLIST for IEBGENR (IBM speak for1, >>    convert), but specified no conversion. > F > But IEBGENER was just a copy, right. Wasn't it some other utility to1 > load/create some VSAM file ? (was it idcams ?) n  E    I wouln't be suprized if VSAM or ISAM had thier own utilities, but F    IEBGENR did have conversion capabilities.  You could do things likeB    convert from fixed to variable length records.  I happly didn't    learn the details.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:44:33 +0000I% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ! Subject: More Compaq lies exposedt8 Message-ID: <qd82vtkqrv4dtvdse4iecvo3drs97dga42@4ax.com>  F On June 25th Compaq announced the surrender of its Alpha technology toE the technologically inferior Intel. On September 4th it announced theCF plan to merge with HP.  A number of people continue to want to believeB that the two were not related and that Carly just happened to call9 Curly soon after the sell-out to Intel. Well according to = http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5099466,00.html.B the HP board first discussed the proposed merger on July 19th justB three weeks after the Alphacide. As Carly and Curly have helpfullyF told us that they discussed the issue privately between themselves forA a considerable time before approaching their boards it would seem D impossible that this discussion did not begin long before June 25th.  C No wonder Carly and Curly claim they can't exactly remember when itc@ all began. Anti-competitive behaviour pure and simple. Black andA White. Let the current team of Carly and Curly away with this andhD they'll screw us all again first chance they get. Terry Shannon it'sC about time you switched sides and we looked at getting some seriouss? legal advice. I'd like to see them rot in jail. Not because I'meB vindictive but because they appear to have colluded with Gates andE Intel in a manner highly damaging to their customers and to their owny= share price. They have not acted in the best interests of the D shareholders or consumers and have intentionally misled both. It  is time they were stopped.   F Could Compaq have announced the Alphacide in favour of an architectureE co-designed by their prospective partner HP after the proposal becameaC public and before it was voted through? Judging by the SEC rules it < would seem not. So was it really a conspiracy (oh no he saidC conspiracy) to break the rules by other means? Looks like it to me.s  > You would almost think Wintel really did bribe Curly and CarlyD personally. Of course that's unthinkable so we shouldn't even bother investigating should we?  F And I strongly advise any Compaq or HP lawyer reading this not to fireE me off an anonymous piece of seemingly friendly legal advice. Terry's F statement that usenet postings don't get read is just another piece ofF his bullshit whether he knows it or not. Any other genuine, interested legal advice is welcomed.i  C Maybe we should first contact the individual US States and European E Regulators still pursuing Microsoft as they likely have the guts, theaB technical knowledge and the right legal people to really look into this.   F "There's no going back" said Carly, "We've burned our boats". ActuallyD you've torpedoed the customers' cruisers (Alpha, OpenVMS, Tru64) butD haven't managed to inflate the replacement rubber dinghy despite theE enormous quantities of hot air blown in its direction. And you expectmC us to believe you're happy to have VMS as a passenger in this boat? @ Possibly but only to give you one last thing to chuck out later.  E To quote the Hitchhikers Guide: Carly and Curly I'd put your personald> analyst on danger money. And now I understand  why Carly keepsE referring to all the analysts she's been talking to. Makes sense that- way...  A If legal opinion is that this is interesting but still a bit weakuE there's a lot of other evidence regarding the intentional destructionHF and non promotion of highly profitable non Wintel Compaq product linesF in order to (one presumes) placate Mr Gates which numerous individuals could help provide.r  C DEC (remember them) products were not safe in Compaq's hands. Let'ss, not let Carly finish the job and HP with it. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:28:00 -0700s- From: Bob Grumbine <bgrumbin@dimensional.com>a% Subject: Re: More Compaq lies exposeda/ Message-ID: <3BF15820.FEBD83AF@dimensional.com>-  E Alan Greig wrote a detailed analysis of some aspects of the proposed rE merger of CPQ into HWP.  I am responding in this brief manner only togJ make sure that Alan understands there is an *interlocking* director sharedG by MSFT and HWP.  There never has needed to be any subterfuge about thenI suppression of non-Windoze technology by HWP in its product line.  It wasmH all done in plain sight through that interlocking director who is one of4 only five members (last I looked) on the MSFT board.     Bob Grumbine    :-)##t  5 +++++++++++++++   #   email  bgrumbin@dimensional.com(C Robert E. "Bob"   #   postal  PO Box 260203, Lakewood CO 80226-0203 ) Grumbine, MBA     #   voice  303-232-4520d< visit Bob's web site at http://www.dimensional.com/~bgrumbin   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:26:14 GMTn' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)n% Subject: Re: More Compaq lies exposedz0 Message-ID: <3bf165ba.26110961@news.charter.net>  " Who's that?   Do tell... Ben Myers  K On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:28:00 -0700, Bob Grumbine <bgrumbin@dimensional.com>u wrote:  F >Alan Greig wrote a detailed analysis of some aspects of the proposed F >merger of CPQ into HWP.  I am responding in this brief manner only toK >make sure that Alan understands there is an *interlocking* director shareduH >by MSFT and HWP.  There never has needed to be any subterfuge about theJ >suppression of non-Windoze technology by HWP in its product line.  It wasI >all done in plain sight through that interlocking director who is one of 5 >only five members (last I looked) on the MSFT board.  >    Bob Grumbine    :-)## > 6 >+++++++++++++++   #   email  bgrumbin@dimensional.comD >Robert E. "Bob"   #   postal  PO Box 260203, Lakewood CO 80226-0203* >Grumbine, MBA     #   voice  303-232-4520= >visit Bob's web site at http://www.dimensional.com/~bgrumbinL  	 Ben Myersn Spirit of Performance, Inc.s 73 Westcott Road Harvard, MA 01451  tel: 978-456-3889r eFax: 810-963-0412 r  PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:44:20 +0000r  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com3 Subject: Re: Need help, was: Rob's British Champion : Message-ID: <OF791CC05C.DDE25F33-ON00256B03.0045DCDC@btyp>  H Or, for more information try www.192.com which will search all electoralI registers for the name you input, and give you back address, phone number  etc.   Steve Sp        < Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> on 11/09/2001 07:05:29 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:iI From:      Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>, 9 November 2001, 7:05 p.m.d  * Re: Need help, was: Rob's British Champion    A In article <9sh2v0$sb$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: 8 > In article <tEBG7.17968$xS6.28911@www.newsranger.com>,D >  Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> writes:o > |>F > |> Rob, I would like to point out that at the last count, there were aboutsI > |> 60 million of us, and that we are not all clones of Andrew Harrison.g >gJ > I'll assume you mean total Brits here and not British members of c.o.v : -) > but anyway.... >aD > Are any of our British members familiar with "Telecom Gold Mail"??F > Is it still an existing service and if so, is there any interconnectF > with INTERNET Email??  I am trying to locate an old friend I haven'tF > seen in more than a decade and that is the email address on his last > business card. >m7 > I know chances are slim, but it's worth a try anyway.h >a@ If you have his location, try Directory Enquiries at www.bt.com.   ___A
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi            F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has.G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,r$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.   
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.u  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,.D RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:00:40 +0100 1 From: Enrico Badella <enrico.badella@softstar.it> 8 Subject: Re: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2+ Message-ID: <3BF0EF48.8DAB3D69@softstar.it>   G Thanks for the replies... I have again some time to play with my toy...w   "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:s > F > The driver is loaded since the UCB was created.  The driver ran thruI > it's initialization code and this did not succeed thus the driver never  > flipped the online bit.   P Is there some way I can have a deeper look in what is happening with the driver?    > Michael Joosten wrote:J > > Wouldn't a -handle DE305-AA instead be sufficient, i.e. without addingI > > the record in SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT ? This seems to have the:% > > same driver entry SYS$CONFIG.DAT.t  D Good question! I guess so... but doing so I learned how to use TECO!   [snip]  D > > I'm not sure if that really means that the driver is loaded, butJ > > inactive (offline). Did you try to configure TCP/IP by filling out the- > > forms of @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG.COM ?? > > > Perhaps the driver has different iobase and IRQ hardwired?  B Hmmm any way to see if it is really hardwired... other than trying all possible configs?t  J > > I tried to put an Intel EtherExpress Pro/100 into a PC164 board, whichK > > was identified by autoconfig, (driver started, device visible) but thenj< > > TCPIP did not start. The drivers seem to be quite picky.  E But that is a PC164, much nicer MOBO. Hmmmm sound like I'll just haverD to remain with my VAXstation 3100 if I want to network... sigh.. 8-(  I > > What worked quite well is an old Tulip chip-based PCI card from Zynx, 2 > > ZX312. These are probably also dirt-cheap now. > >lI > > Another choice might be Lance-based (AM7990) card, like a NE1500/2100hC > > clone. I have some, and there is a SRM script called add_de205:    Interested in swapping some?   Cheers   e.  H ========================================================================H Enrico Badella                       email:   enrico.badella@softstar.itA Soft*Star srl                                 eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it.H InterNetworking Specialists          tel:     +39-011-746092            < Via Camburzano 9                     fax:     +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italyl  K   Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software,-4   manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manualsJ ==========================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:56:08 -0500@2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)M Subject: Re: OpenVMS v6.2 VAX drivers for Q-Bus SIMPAC 32/22, and 32/12 cards L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1311011256080001@user-2ive6dd.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <58ba0101.0111122247.483a652d@posting.google.com>,o7 andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) wrote:s   > Hi,  > G > We are trying to upgrade our VAX from OpenVMS v5.5-2 to OpenVMS v6.2.eD > The VAX is used in the process control environment, and uses Q-BusH > SIMPAC 32/22, and 32/12 cards. We are trying to locate the drivers forG > OpenVMS VAX v6.2. The VMS v5.5-2 drivers don't work - "system versioniC > mismatch" error. Any suggestions on where we can get the would bee > appreciated.  F Your best bet is to find where you got the drivers for 5.5-2, and lookH there for new ones.  You _probably_ only need to rebuild the driver fromH the sources; I think at V5.5-2 most Vax drivers already fit the "modern"
 driver model.u  P Since I've no experience with any SIMPAC devices, I can't offer any more advice.   -- s Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:29:17 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)t' Subject: Re: SET FILE/STAT and clustersa0 Message-ID: <3bf0e7a0.10003524@news.demon.co.uk>  B SET RMS /STAT isn't implemented anything like that.  It has always been local to a single node.  D Now, whether or not it might be a good idea to change this behaviour is another discussion entirely.k   Jim.  , On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:08:24 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:@  M >had the occasion to need the SET FILE/STAT and MON RMS/FILE=filename today. : >qO >However, I was quite disapointed to find out that in a 2 node cluster, the MONeM >RMS on the node that has control of the disk on which the file resides wouldh< >not show usage statistics from a process running on node 2. >BN >I can understand that with dual path disks, one node wouldn't really see whatK >the other node is doing. But with MSCP access, shouldn't the node that hasiP >control of the drive be able to provide clusterwide RMS monitoring for a file ?   Jim JohnsonM Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:08:55 GMT3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <9sqgu7$k72@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  , In article <3BEF9095.79011273@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >Jeff Killeen wrote:N >> I thought Terry's Taliban analogy references were a little over the top butO >> it does appear to me at this point he has correctly identified behavior that N >> is about as rational and open to the concept of alternate points of view as >> the Taliban's behavior. >c >o >Got another one:  >hN >Winkler is a terrorist because he is out to destroy VMS and force a MicrosoftL >dictatorship on all Compaq customers.  The USA should bomb Compaq's houstonO >headquarters out of existance, and let the former Tandem and Digital divisions K >decide on a democratic governance of their company with the UN providing a ; >shield to prevent Microsoft from taking back that company.m  H   No one needs to bomb Compaq.  Just sit back and watch it crumble underG its own incompetence and the weight of its own pointy-headed managers. IF Maybe when they part it out, the good stuff will go to a company that  understands it.t   -- Vance Haemmerle  vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:14:01 GMT3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)sN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <9sqh7p$k96@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  < In article <JOSH7.17754$I6.4371753@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,3 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  >nL >Rightly or wrongly, Alpha's dead. Get over it. No amount of 20-20 hindsight >will change this fact.n  I   Terry, as Alpha and Tru64 and other Compaq differentiation goes so goesvJ the customer interest.  If Compaq, and/or any company stupid enough to buyJ it, goes commodity and me-too and leaves research and development to IntelI and Microsoft then there goes the market's interest in hearing about whatn> Compaq is doing and there goes the market for your newsletter.  E   Maybe you should start thinking about writing about the industry ine> general and less about Compaq specific stuff as that dwindles.   -- Vance Haemmerlen vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 04:35:05 -0500t  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org5 Message-ID: <1011113031024.6286C-100000@Ives.egh.com>   ' On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, John McLean wrote:s   >=20 >=20 > Terry C Shannon wrote: > >=20) > > On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:u > >=20 > > >d> > > > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in messageD > > > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111102342060.15684-100000@world.std.com... > > > >o >=20J > I agree with Bill in the substance of his arguments, but not necessarily& > in the way he chose to express them. >=20B > In your SKC Special there are a number of contentious points.... >=20E > 1.  You said "For nearly a decade, Alpha has reigned as the fastestoL > processor on the planet. Compaq=97and Digital before it=97invested heavil= y F > in a series of misguided marketing campaigns designed to convey thisJ > fact to the marketplace."  Sorry, I must have missed this marketting.=201 > Where was it ?  On bus-stops in Poland again ??t  A Probably ;-)  Investments in marketing don't necessarily have anytE visible results.  They maybe promotional campaigns that were canceledaB before they started, marketing studies that produced no useful (orB lots of useless) information, etc.  See Dilbert for many examples. Anyone for barbecued unicorn?v  J > 2. You said "These investments [in Alpha] yielded abysmally low ROI".=20H > Methinks comparatively speaking, the ROI on Alpha was very good.  FromB > the Compaq financials, Windows-based products return about 2% onF > investment in a GOOD year but Alpha-based systems return about 12 to	 > 15%.=20d  E It is perfectly clear that the investments Terry was refering to wereyG in Alpha marketing, not in Alpha in total.  At first I thought you justiC misunderstood, but reviewing Terry's article, this is the very nextdG sentence after the sentence you quoted in your first point, and I thinkbK your interpolation of "[in Alpha]" borders on being deliberately deceptive.d  E > 3.  You said "About two years ago, several senior technologists andaI > strategists in Compaq=92s High Performance Systems Divisions decided ton@ > take an objective and soul-searching look at the 'Whither=97orK > Wither=97Alpha?' question."   I find this very odd because the well-knownyF > report which compared Alpha to IA64 and concluded that Alpha was farH > superior actually has a date stamp of 11 Oct 1999.  I find it very oddI > that a report extolling the virtues of Alpha should be released at thatbH > time and at the same time there are questions arising about the futureE > of Alpha.  (I believe the report escaped into the public arena manysC > months, by which time - if your statement is correct - Compaq hady= > already concluded that the future for Alpha was "limited".)f  < You want consistency?  Since June 25th came as a surprise to? practically everyone (including, according to their posts, justi= about everyone in the VMS group), Compaq's decision about thei? future of Alpha could very well have been completely unknown tos? the authors of the Oct 11 report.  (Maybe someone could start al= whole thread about how Compaq operates on the same managementa principles as the Mafia?)e  F > 4.  You said "With an installed base of perhaps ~700K systems and anB > annual run rate of perhaps ~100K systems, the Alpha architectureF > appeared incapable of gaining market share or momentum."  To which ID > would add "because of poor or non-existent marketing".  Had CompaqG > actually tried to increase the sales through good marketing then youraI > statement would hold water.  As events stand, this incapability is onlyt > an assertion.u  F Could Alpha have done better with better marketing?  Almost certainly.D Would it have done enough better to reverse the decision to kill it? Likely but not certainly.aD Was Compaq capable of doing a better job of marketing it?  Not basedD on the evidence.  There was seldom any evidence of marketing at all.  E Marketing is a lot more than ads during the Super Bowl.  As the yearsoD went by, information about Alpha's, VMS, storage products, software,C etc., etc. became increasingly hard to obtain.  A major function ofpF marketing is getting information about your products to your customersG and potential customers.  This has become a black hole.  DECDirect as a-@ planning tool began to go downhill in the early 90's.  It becameE increasingly glossy with ever less information.  It became impossiblepC to discover costs, performance figures, prerequisits, etc.  I found F the DECDirect CD's to be extrordinarily slow and hard to use, and theyC never seemed to have any prices.  The current web site is also verygA cumbersome and incomplete compared to the old (text) E-store.  ItoB also completely lacks prices, which are vital to systems planning.B (If you can't determine the relative cost of a single large system? vs. a 3-node cluster, how do you propose either to a customer?)r  D The old Systems and Options catalogs where great for technical info,D site planning, etc., (no prices), but acquiring them was always like@ pulling hens teeth (why didn't they just mail me a new one every= 6 months?)  I haven't seen a new one in about 7 years (1994?)3  = The other part of marketing, determining customer's needs and~? responding to them, has also been lacking.  The recent response0@ seems to be "if we don't try, we can't fail."  At the same time,D DEC/Compaq has devoted enourmous resources to questionable products.C For example DECnet-5 (OSI), while ignoring TCP/IP.  The only really2A useful feature of DECnet-5, from my standpoint, is the ability to:A run on a TCP/IP transport, which I think could have been achievedo* much sooner if that was the original goal.  ? I'm not saying they don't eventually reach the right goals, buts@ they often follow a very slow and circuitous route to get there.@ For example, a supported, current Apache server, Java, IP stack,@ etc. are worthy items, but slow in arriving.  (Remember how much? mileage or British friend got out of VMS's lagging Java supporto@ about 18 months ago?)  I know some of this is due to the careful> approach of VMS engineering, but I think a lot of it is due to? misplaced priorities, misplaced due to lack of understanding of3$ their current and potential markets.  F > 5.  You said "(Further clouding the EV8 issue was anecdotal evidenceJ > that the incorporation of symmetric multithreading technology would haveJ > reduced the processor=92s target frequency by a full gigahertz.)".  ThisH > would be a curious statement if it were true, and would indeed justify> > the abandonment of Alpha (assuming of course that SMT was ofF > sufficiently high priority  ... which must be considered question inI > light of the performance penalty it causes.)  On the other hand (IIRC),wB > we also have anecdotal evidence that EV8 was meeting performance! > specifications and schedules...p  D I think this is a clock vs. performance issue.  If you have a choiceE between developing an SMT processor that can run 4 threads at 1.4 GHz C or a single-thread processor at 2.4 GHz (made up the numbers, but IpC don't think they are ridiculous), which will give better real-worlds> performance?  Maybe you're better off with the much slower SMTF processor, or maybe you're better off with the other.  Unless the 1GHz@ difference completely destroys any advantage of SMT, I don't seeB why this would justify abandoning Alpha.  Of course, you no longerD have meaningless clock-speed bragging rights.  So even if true, thisD statement helps clarify things very much.  We need more information.  D > 6.  You said "...the Compaq research team took a close look at theI > shifting epicenter of system  differentiation. They discovered that raweI > processor performance was ceasing to be a key contributor to enterpriserE > system differentiation. (If CPU performance really mattered, CompaqdH > would have eclipsed Sun in the enterprise server space ages ago!)".=20C > Well maybe Compaq would have eclipsed Sun if they had bothered toaI > advertise Alpha and Tru64.  (Note we stack one unix gainst another, notnJ > VMS which would force a bigger change on the customer.)  You know, maybeG > performance would have been important if Alpha had been promoted hardeE > enough.  Imagine a system with PERFORMANCE + RAS + NUMA + latency +tH > bandwidth ...  This conclusion again reflects on the lack of marketing > effort by Compaq. =20l   Agreed.u  G > 7.  Finally, you assemble a collection of "achievements" of Intel andnI > conclude "the rationale for the IPF decision is clear."  Sorry, no.  IfeI > achievements in processor technology were all that mattered, then Alpha # > would be the preferred option.=20a  J Intel has produced some lemons, too.  But Terry said "process technology",I not "processor technology".  Process technology is the ability to produce E large numbers of shrinking chips reliably and cheaply (i.e. with goodiH yields.)  Terry says that Compaq is betting on Intels ability to produceJ future processors that achieve better performance by process improvements,K and not necessarily by design improvements.  (Putting the glue logic on theaG chip or adding SMT is a design improvements.  Shrinking from .18 to .13.C microns, or converting to a new technology like copper is a process H improvement.  Obviously they go hand-in-hand, but Terry is claiming thatG Compaq feels that process improvement is one of Intel's strengths.  Thet other is deep pockets.)t  F Speaking of Intel's deep pockets, people were wondering about the lackK of any visible income from Intel in the recent Compaq financial statements. H I wonder if they are funding the VMS and Tru64 ports, and IPF box designD and integration with existing Compaq peripherals?  If so, the incomeI may appear slowly over time, rather than in a big payment.  Also, if theygG are funding Tru64, what effect would that have on the speculated demiseo! of Tru64 following the HP merger?e  J > So much of this argument is simply a reflection of Compaq's inability toH > promote Alpha and their consequent conclusion that there was no marketJ > for it.  Honestly, it's like me saying that I could never win any awardsB > for basketball.  That's an obvious conclusion since I don't play
 > basketball.   . But would you win awards if you did play?  ;-)  
 > John McLeani   --=20a John Santosb Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 13 Nov 01 09:06:40 GMTu From: jmfbahciv@aol.comiN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <9squpg$bqg$1@bob.news.rcn.net>w  - In article <87d72nbu1d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,a0    Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:- >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:t > D >> Do I believe that discussion and evidence would have obtained theE >> Taliban's consent?  Not necessarily (and of course now we'll nevergG >> know for sure) - but making the effort *would* have allowed us to be=C >> perceived as having attempted to go about things properly rather E >> than as a global bully who can all the more easily be perceived as 8 >> having in some ways deserved the sucker punch we got. > E >The Taliban offered to deliver OBL to a 3rd muslim country for trial B >if reasonable evidence was presented to them. The shrub turned it >down flat.n >y That was a delaying tactic.  ,   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:41:21 +0000=% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <tvs1vtkpjeacie05rud7jq42ejerkgjkhe@4ax.com>  D On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:45:05 +0100, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote:     >eD >3.  You said "About two years ago, several senior technologists andF >strategists in Compaqs High Performance Systems Divisions decided to= >take an objective and soul-searching look at the 'WhitherorXH >WitherAlpha?' question."   I find this very odd because the well-knownE >report which compared Alpha to IA64 and concluded that Alpha was far G >superior actually has a date stamp of 11 Oct 1999.  I find it very odddH >that a report extolling the virtues of Alpha should be released at thatG >time and at the same time there are questions arising about the futureiD >of Alpha.  (I believe the report escaped into the public arena manyB >months, by which time - if your statement is correct - Compaq had< >already concluded that the future for Alpha was "limited".)  C And that's from around the time Compaq junked Windows 2000 on Alpha'D *after* having completed the port. Many thought this signaled CompaqF had taken the decision to phase out Alpha down the line and Compaq wasD being battered by irate customers. So Compaq issued statements which> appeared to be fully behind Alpha (but strangely not signed byB Capellas) and Terry Shannon publicly slammed posters claiming thatB Compaq had no real interest in pushing Alpha. Now he tells us thatB around about that time Compaq *did* decide to seriously reconsider% Alpha's future and that was sensible!   F He then goes on to suggest we should still believe what Compaq tell usE about the future even if it runs against briefings seemingly given byO Carly to shadowy analysts.  F I too believe Terry has some serious issues he should consider even if) I wouldn't put it quite the way Bill did.t   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 06:52:38 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>hN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF10985.235A8679@videotron.ca>   John Santos wrote:F > Was Compaq capable of doing a better job of marketing it?  Not basedF > on the evidence.  There was seldom any evidence of marketing at all.    I Compaq was perfectly capable of marketing it. In fact, at the time CompaqGL bought Digital, Compaq was still the industry leader for wintel stuff and itH could have made Alpha the de-facto standard for wintel servers if it hadM wanted to. Remember that NT was still being developped on Alpha and that with K a show of commitment by Compaq, Microsoft would have gladly started to portt  more and more products to Alpha.  K The problem is that Compaq didn't want Alpha. If you never try then you aree sure it won't succeed.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:55:49 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org; Message-ID: <9T7I7.51$jp.13895@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>C  + John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in messageh/ news:1011113031024.6286C-100000@Ives.egh.com...h' On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, John McLean wrote:d   ...n  E > 3.  You said "About two years ago, several senior technologists andlG > strategists in Compaq's High Performance Systems Divisions decided tot> > take an objective and soul-searching look at the 'Whither-orI > Wither-Alpha?' question."   I find this very odd because the well-knownhF > report which compared Alpha to IA64 and concluded that Alpha was farH > superior actually has a date stamp of 11 Oct 1999.  I find it very oddI > that a report extolling the virtues of Alpha should be released at thatlH > time and at the same time there are questions arising about the futureE > of Alpha.  (I believe the report escaped into the public arena manyaC > months, by which time - if your statement is correct - Compaq hadn= > already concluded that the future for Alpha was "limited".)   < You want consistency?  Since June 25th came as a surprise to? practically everyone (including, according to their posts, justr= about everyone in the VMS group), Compaq's decision about ther? future of Alpha could very well have been completely unknown tot? the authors of the Oct 11 report.  (Maybe someone could start ao= whole thread about how Compaq operates on the same managementh principles as the Mafia?)i   *** K I suspect John's point is that the radical inconsistency between the reportiL and the other 'investigation' was at least visible to top management:  theirJ June 25th decision makes it clear they were aware of the latter, and theirK sales tactics make it clear they were aware of the former.  It bolsters thetK suggestion that they reached the conclusion they wanted rather than arrivedS at it based on the evidence. ***g  F > 4.  You said "With an installed base of perhaps ~700K systems and anB > annual run rate of perhaps ~100K systems, the Alpha architectureF > appeared incapable of gaining market share or momentum."  To which ID > would add "because of poor or non-existent marketing".  Had CompaqG > actually tried to increase the sales through good marketing then your0I > statement would hold water.  As events stand, this incapability is onlyy > an assertion.   F Could Alpha have done better with better marketing?  Almost certainly.D Would it have done enough better to reverse the decision to kill it? Likely but not certainly.sD Was Compaq capable of doing a better job of marketing it?  Not basedD on the evidence.  There was seldom any evidence of marketing at all.  E Marketing is a lot more than ads during the Super Bowl.  As the yearstD went by, information about Alpha's, VMS, storage products, software,C etc., etc. became increasingly hard to obtain.  A major function oftF marketing is getting information about your products to your customersG and potential customers.  This has become a black hole.  DECDirect as as@ planning tool began to go downhill in the early 90's.  It becameE increasingly glossy with ever less information.  It became impossiblepC to discover costs, performance figures, prerequisits, etc.  I found,F the DECDirect CD's to be extrordinarily slow and hard to use, and theyC never seemed to have any prices.  The current web site is also verylA cumbersome and incomplete compared to the old (text) E-store.  It B also completely lacks prices, which are vital to systems planning.B (If you can't determine the relative cost of a single large system? vs. a 3-node cluster, how do you propose either to a customer?)e  D The old Systems and Options catalogs where great for technical info,D site planning, etc., (no prices), but acquiring them was always like@ pulling hens teeth (why didn't they just mail me a new one every= 6 months?)  I haven't seen a new one in about 7 years (1994?)s  = The other part of marketing, determining customer's needs andg? responding to them, has also been lacking.  The recent responsed@ seems to be "if we don't try, we can't fail."  At the same time,D DEC/Compaq has devoted enourmous resources to questionable products.C For example DECnet-5 (OSI), while ignoring TCP/IP.  The only reallyoA useful feature of DECnet-5, from my standpoint, is the ability toaA run on a TCP/IP transport, which I think could have been achievedA* much sooner if that was the original goal.  ? I'm not saying they don't eventually reach the right goals, buts@ they often follow a very slow and circuitous route to get there.@ For example, a supported, current Apache server, Java, IP stack,@ etc. are worthy items, but slow in arriving.  (Remember how much? mileage or British friend got out of VMS's lagging Java supportc@ about 18 months ago?)  I know some of this is due to the careful> approach of VMS engineering, but I think a lot of it is due to? misplaced priorities, misplaced due to lack of understanding of $ their current and potential markets.   *** H Very similar to the ground that our group covered in its presentation toL Capellas 18 months ago.  Zero interest in response.  When your customers areK pounding on your door trying to tell you how to improve sales and you thumbcK your nose at them, it's a fairly direct indication of your future plans forrE the products in question and lack of interest in exploring expansion.d  L In other words, while it's arguable that DEC was partly flat-out incompetentJ in marketing, it's pretty clear that, at least under Capellas, Compaq justI wasn't interested.  Compaq knows how to market other products effectivelycH and was given plenty of specific input about how to market VMS and Alpha more effectively.e ***    ...a  F Speaking of Intel's deep pockets, people were wondering about the lackK of any visible income from Intel in the recent Compaq financial statements.sH I wonder if they are funding the VMS and Tru64 ports, and IPF box designD and integration with existing Compaq peripherals?  If so, the incomeI may appear slowly over time, rather than in a big payment.  Also, if they G are funding Tru64, what effect would that have on the speculated demise ! of Tru64 following the HP merger?y   *** D Suggesting that this is reasonable compensation for killing Alpha isJ circular:  if Alpha hadn't been axed, the ports would have been at best inJ the 'might be nice' category rather than in any way of primary importance, as would the IPF box design. ***v  J > So much of this argument is simply a reflection of Compaq's inability toH > promote Alpha and their consequent conclusion that there was no marketJ > for it.  Honestly, it's like me saying that I could never win any awardsB > for basketball.  That's an obvious conclusion since I don't play
 > basketball.o  . But would you win awards if you did play?  ;-)   ***(H We may not know anything about John's athletic ability, but we *do* knowC something about Compaq's marketing ability.  Compaq has in the pastnL demonstrated the skills it would have taken to market Alpha successfully andL has had plenty of encouragement to put them to use, so his observation seems/ appropriate even if his simile had a gap in it.f   - bill   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 13 Nov 01 10:50:13 GMTb From: jmfbahciv@aol.com N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <9sr4rm$11k$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   , In article <3BF10985.235A8679@videotron.ca>,1    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:g >John Santos wrote: G >> Was Compaq capable of doing a better job of marketing it?  Not basedoG >> on the evidence.  There was seldom any evidence of marketing at all.d >u >n/ >Compaq was perfectly capable of marketing it.    > But not developing it.  People, doing a full-blown development< cycle of an operating system is an art form.  To do any kind= of development cycle successfully requires _technical_ peopleo> who know how to do it.  When Plamer sold off all of the pieces2 that produced a profit, the people went with them.     >In fact, at the time CompaqK >bought Digital, Compaq was still the industry leader for wintel stuff and n itI >could have made Alpha the de-facto standard for wintel servers if it had J >wanted to. Remember that NT was still being developped on Alpha and that  withH >a show of commitment by Compaq, Microsoft would have gladly started to  port! >more and more products to Alpha.t   Ptui.        >u/ >The problem is that Compaq didn't want Alpha. d  < It doesn't look as if Compaq (the brass in Texas) wanted any; kind of development.  If you remember the stories that wentc> around at the time they purchased Digital, they bought Digital7 for the _servcie center_.  THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH  9 DEVELOPMENT DELIVERY OF FOLLOW ON PRODUCTS, let alone newh	 products.4  " > ...If you never try then you are >sure it won't succeed.m  < But they didn't have an intention to succeed in that area!  ; I don't understand why people assume that the buyout was tob) acquire expertise of the development biz.o   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:48:08 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>hN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <i552vtso307juj051fvgoo895qcm49dbin@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:55:49 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:     >***L >I suspect John's point is that the radical inconsistency between the reportM >and the other 'investigation' was at least visible to top management:  theirrK >June 25th decision makes it clear they were aware of the latter, and their L >sales tactics make it clear they were aware of the former.  It bolsters theL >suggestion that they reached the conclusion they wanted rather than arrived >at it based on the evidence.k  D I have a hunch that the term "fully funded" Compaq used to re-assureF customers that EV8 was secure was decided on and ok'd by Capellas withB the explicit intention being to mislead customers. I do know for aD fact that at least one Compaq business unit manager used the term toD current and prospective customers *after* he knew of the decision toA kill Alpha. He had no choice in the matter. Terry Shannon himselfeE suggested to me that the term "fully funded" was first used by Compaq , a couple of years ago with reference to EV8.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:29:26 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)rN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <NHh72k8j$Vlp@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  a In article <i0TH7.5835$vM6.222209@typhoon1.gnilink.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:l7 > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagef( > news:3BEFD674.3080206@tsoft-inc.com...J >> However, more than a few people are very, very, VERY upset with actions@ >> that they perceive to gross incompetance and stupidity.  WhenG >> reiteration of some 'justification' of incompetance and stupidity ismI >> repeated, then repeating a rebuttal of the 'justification' is entirelypD >> proper.  I for one wouldn't want the 'big lie' to be perceived asF >> reality just because of being constantly repeated without rebuttal. > K > If there is such validity to the point of view there is no reason for the N > highly emotional attacks against virtually every posting that has a contraryI > point of view.  The counterpoint point of view can be posted in its own L > thread - and if needed on a constant basis.  Let the readers decide.  BillL > can post the Bill Todd wit and wisdom FAQ on Alpha and Compaq once an hour > for all I care.o > J > What appears to happening here is a bitter attack by ex Digital employeeL > attempting to shout down any point of view that does match the sage Todd'sK > point of view.  He is more than welcome to present his point of view.  HeiM > does not need to trash every thread that is at odds with his viewpoint.  HeyK > can allow those who have viewpoints different from his to flush out theirMJ > viewpoint without his bitter attacks.  It clearly has the effect of justH > having people walk away rather than put up with it.  It is more than aG > little disingenuous of Mr. Todd to suggest what he is doing is in theSJ > interest of making sure people are inform when he trashes any discussionN > that does not agree with his point of view thus blunting its development andN > information sharing.  Let him put forth his point of view in his own threads > and let the readers decide.  > M > Of course this assumes that the sage Todd's viewpoint can stand up on theirf > own merit. > K > I would have a lot more respect for the man if he was currently a user ofbL > Alpha technology.  For we know he may have a vested commercial interest inK > IBM or Sun at this point in time - or worse may be an ex Digital employee K > who never found work involving significant responsibility (e.g. 3rd shifte > operator)...  K I'm a current user of Alpha technology. (does multiple GS160s, GS140, 8400,eL and at least 3 dozen others count?). I'm a VMS bigot, although I'm forced toL tolerate Tru64. I'm an exDECcie that had a 5 digit badge number. I'm a DECUSL member since before we even had numbers. And an SKC subscriber at least backC to the SKD days. And as a result of Compaq buying DEC, I'm a CompaqwI stockholder watching my meager remains of my DEC EPP become less and lessMH valuable. And hoping that they haven't invested my meager DEC pension in company stock :-(   L My upper management was very disillusioned by the Alpha to IPF announcement,K and even less happy about the HP merger. The last thing we need is a forced-K archetecture transition. That was one of the big features of Alpha: we werev already ahead of everyone. n  H We've got HPUX running next to Tru64, and an unbiased colleague (SolarisJ background) rates Tru64 as tops, HPUX as the worst, and Solaris and othersK somewhere in between. Around here, HP stands for "Hourly Patches". And deadnJ end technology. The rumors I hear from upper management are not Compaq and@ not HP, but more like an old three letter company from New York.  I I agree with most of what Todd has said.  Attacking him because you don'tdG like what he's saying is just making you look stupid. It's a crime thateJ Compaq and Intel, and probably HP, have conspired to kill off Alpha. IMHO,L it's as worthy of government anti-trust action as the long standng Microsoft suit.t  E And it's sad to see that Terry Shannon has become about as unbiased aeI reporter of Compaq news as the governor and secretary of state of FloridagL was unbiased in last years post election skirmish. And his 4 month hiatus inL the thick of Compaq news really makes me wonde why we bother to subscribe...  
 Bob Kaplow DECUS 108659  Badge number significantly less!  4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:30:29 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <APylr53vyZfG@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  \ In article <87d72nbu1d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:F > The Taliban offered to deliver OBL to a 3rd muslim country for trialC > if reasonable evidence was presented to them. The shrub turned itF > down flat.  B And this has what to do with DECUS, VMS, Alpha, Intel, or computer
 technology???a    4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:51:32 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF1255E.6225AD86@videotron.ca>   Bob Kaplow wrote:aG > And it's sad to see that Terry Shannon has become about as unbiased atK > reporter of Compaq news as the governor and secretary of state of Floridar3 > was unbiased in last years post election skirmishs  N Perhaps Mr Shannon should be hired by some of those Wall Street Casino analystI firms or Gartner etc where he would be given a budget and independance toMJ report on what really goes on. Working for a large Wall Street Casino firmN would force Compaq to treat him with respect even he he writes negative stuff.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:40:23 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)hN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <qAwMMBrRzhZG@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  b In article <9sqgu7$k72@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) writes:J >   No one needs to bomb Compaq.  Just sit back and watch it crumble underI > its own incompetence and the weight of its own pointy-headed managers. uH > Maybe when they part it out, the good stuff will go to a company that  > understands it.o  
 Sad but true.r  4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:52:57 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)hN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <cZ1EkpUF5Dag@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  L Last week the Chicago Tribune ran several stories that the familys of the HPC founders are opposing the merger. You can find several articles at r  M http://www.chicagotribune.com/search/chi_all.jsp?Query=hewlett+packard+compaq     4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 06:09:51 -08006 From: philipp.lewis@deutsche-boerse.com (philip lewis)N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org= Message-ID: <4ad76487.0111130609.1300a1a9@posting.google.com>   B I have tried to post a few times, it does not seem to work from my2 other newsserver.  So belatedly I try from google.   Folks,  " I have read the "thread thus far".( Now I have read what Terry had to say at( http://www.tru64.org/skc/IPFSpecial.html  @ Executive Summary:  I am in Bills court here.  Attacking him isB completely out of place and speaks more about the attackers rather than the target.  C In no particular order some comments - some opinions, some abstracta
 induction.  D a) There is much here to support the view that TS is an apologist to> the Compaq     corporate spin as well as that of Intel (hardlyC surprising given how TS makes his living - not a criticism, just anrC sad observation).  The notion that everything Compaq has said aboutoF the Alphacide is true, which seems to be the underlying premise of theF paper, seems at best only marginally related to reality and would be aD first in the history of spin and certainly an about face in Compaqs= standards of corporate truth.  I think there is just too mucheC conflicting evidence/information to swallow Compaqs line, as TS hasn done.u  E b) It seems intuitively obvious (to me at least) that the Compaq spineB is to cover the obvious.  To wit,  IPF = Intel+HP.  A deal with HP@ would be politically impossible within HP with Alpha alive.  The> HP-Intel relationship would be also untenable without an Alpha6 obituary (and death is required for an obituary). TSs@ rationalisations as to why death was preannounced are irrelevant: sophistry. This spin is post rationalisation at its worst.  F c) As an aside, I am still waiting for an engineering debunking of the< the Digital(or was it Compaq) whitepaper analysis of Alpha v> IPF.  This would (were it actually possible) at least add someC engineering credibility to the Compaq corporate line which seems to D have been totally lacking in substance.  For the uninformed, it usedC to be here http://www.alphapowered.com/presentations/alpha_ia64.pdfm and is (amazingly) still herey0 http://www.compaq.com/hpc/ref/ref_alpha_ia64.pdf   d) Get a spell checker Terry.e  = e) Get a dictionary.  ".. future-generation IPF products moreuC Alpha-amenable" - What on earth is that supposed to mean !  Did youmF mean "... future-generation IPF products more conducive to the porting of OpenVMS/Tru64" ?   B f) 1Ghz cost for SMT is news to me too - and I read the technology news like eveyone else here.  C g) The notion that improved construction technologies (in this case E CPU fabrication processes) are the cure for faulty design is a petardi@ upon which many a talentless engineer has been hoist.  It is theE flavour of the month/year/decade explanation for how Intel will solvesB the Itanic disaster because anything else would be an admission of incompetent chip design.  D h) I am unconvinced of Intels ability to execute Itanic successfullyF within any     timeframe - and history seems to support the contention. given the less than  stellar results thus far.  F i) Describing IPF as "...an affordable, available CPU architecture" isF disingenuous.  It is not a given that IPF will be "cheaper" than AlphaC - and we need a definition of "cheap" here, and it is certainly nothE available right now.  You are suggesting that the only way forward istE blind faith.  To wit, that an undelivered architecture with more thantC half a decade of missed deadlines and underperformance will be bothrD "affordable, available" - not to mention actually be able to performC as well as that which it should replace.  Blind faith is a strategy  rarely consistent with success.e  B There is plenty more I could add, but I have concluded that Bills? commentary was fairly close to the mark and my own take on TSsiD analysis is that it is as flawed as the Compaq spin upon which it soE heavily relies.  It is dissembling at best - or rather at its worst. m! I am a little disappointed in TS.t  D For the record, I have a 20 year career investment in VMS and I care; whether VMS survives.  I am ambivalent about the underlyingoF architecture, though I clearly belong in the Alpha camp, for technical= and other reasons.  Given the fabric of lies which Compaq hasoE proferred in recent years, and the spin regarding the "Alphacide", itCC does not bode well for the future of my favourite OS.  I got out ofdF the habit of trusting Digital after BP came to power.  I would like toD believe what Compaqs executives say, but it would require a level ofF faith in Compaq corporate statements which cannot be supported by  the historical record.  > And finally, I have not forgiven Compaq for the debacle of the Intel/NT BLISS compiler !!!!  : So much on that subject, and not an abusive word in sight.  E Oh, and by the way Terry, it is not so often that I disagree with youaE analyses - but I think you do yourself a professional disservice withb the article in question.   ciao phil  E (This document is not spell-checked - add neuro-optical spell checkern filter)o  9 On (null), Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:sy Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.SGI.4.30.0111102342060.15684-100000@world.std.com>...lK > I just put together a special issue of Shannon Knows Compaq that contains ? > three articles on Compaq's IPF Consolidation. Included in theoF > free-for-the-downloading PDF are a discussion of why Compaq opted toJ > scuttle Alpha, an explanation of why things were done as they were (e.g.K > why publish an Alpha obituary three or four years before the architecturen? > shuffles off its mortal coils), and what's behind the currentl& > unavailability of IPF-based systems. > I > While you're at www.tru64.org, be sure to take a look at the results oflD > the SKC/Tru64.org IPF Consolidation survey, and participate in the) > brand-new survey Ken and I just posted.t >  > Enjoy, >  > terry shannona   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:16:00 GMTe& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <AW9I7.6665$o16.332839@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  F "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message- news:NHh72k8j$Vlp@eisner.encompasserve.org...y7 > Attacking him because you don't like what he's sayinge  I Nope - I only objecting to Todd trying to shout down everyone he disagreeeJ with.  I full support his right to express himself.  As I said he can postD his viewpoint every hour on the hour if wishes - he should just stopI trashing every thread he disagrees with.  I object to his tactics. By hist5 own admission he is bitter and his actions show it...n   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 16:40:02 +0100- From: Robert Harley <harley@estephe.inria.fr>oN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org. Message-ID: <rz7vggefzn1.fsf@estephe.inria.fr>  / Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> writes:h' > On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:e	 > > [...]fL > > Despite your introductory statement that "finally details are emerging",H > > this is largely a re-hash of the bullshit that Compaq (and you) wereO > > spreading so liberally just after June 25th.  Why you expect anyone to find 9 > > it any more believable this time around is not clear.m >  > [...]dG > PS-- liberally salting a polemic with expressions such as "bullsh*t,"yI > "infomercial"," gall," "mealy-mouthed," "utter crap," "fool" and "pimp"tK > (to mention a few) detracts immensely from the credibility of the message- > and the messenger alike.  A The value of a message is the message.  The state of anger of the # messenger does not detract from it.   C I had the same impression as Bill when reading your article, Terry,1C and I side entirely with him.  I'm afraid I have lost the respect I F once had for your statements, which is a pity because I used to have a lot.   Regards,   Rob.I     .-.                                                               .-.iJ    /   \           .-.                                 .-.           /   \K   /     \         /   \       .-.     _     .-.       /   \         /     \aL  /       \       /     \     /   \   / \   /   \     /     \       /       \M /         \     /       \   /     `-'   `-'     \   /       \     /         \hB            \   /         `-'                     `-'         \   /A             `-'                                               `-'    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:48:37 GMT- From: forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh) % Subject: Re: Star wars in ascii art !v) Message-ID: <9sqq9l$p95$2@news.panix.com>   > Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= (noone@dummy.com) wrote:7 : Is this ASCII file(?) available in any other way thenr) : by telnet ? Download to run it localy ?i : Jan-Erik Sderholm.   ' The telnet site is a "transposition" of "      http://www.asciimation.co.nz/; though I don't know if you can download from there, either.u9 I suppose wget, or something like that, might work, but I  haven't tried.   : > JF Mezei wrote:$ : > > telnet to: : > > towel.blinkenlights.nl/ : > > make sure you have a good VT emulator :-)K- : > > Some guy put a lot of effort into this.o   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 08:01:09 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e% Subject: Re: Star wars in ascii art !t3 Message-ID: <Y4PHDUXkn4Eh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <3BF04D2A.ACB36FC4@dummy.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> writes: 7 > Is this ASCII file(?) available in any other way then ) > by telnet ? Download to run it localy ?g >   H    telnet/log?  Probably will mess up the timing.  Site isn't responging
    right now..   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2001 15:56:56 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)r% Subject: Re: Star wars in ascii art !y0 Message-ID: <9srfs8$etr$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  c In article <Y4PHDUXkn4Eh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:lj >In article <3BF04D2A.ACB36FC4@dummy.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> writes:8 >> Is this ASCII file(?) available in any other way then* >> by telnet ? Download to run it localy ? >> t > I >   telnet/log?  Probably will mess up the timing.  Site isn't respongingc >   right now.  M Tried it, didn't produce a usable result. At least with a TYPE or COPY to TT.h   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannh  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:51:28 GMTa' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> % Subject: Re: Star wars in ascii art !d+ Message-ID: <3BF15E0C.17897EBF@pacbell.net>e  @ I think you have to use telnet and as JF said a decent TE. I useF PowerTerm Interconnect by Ericom from my NT box. Haven't tried it from VMS directly yet.s) IMHO its worth taking another shot at it.o Dons   Christoph Gartmann wrote:e > e > In article <Y4PHDUXkn4Eh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:ul > >In article <3BF04D2A.ACB36FC4@dummy.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> writes:: > >> Is this ASCII file(?) available in any other way then, > >> by telnet ? Download to run it localy ? > >> > >eK > >   telnet/log?  Probably will mess up the timing.  Site isn't respongingo > >   right now. > O > Tried it, didn't produce a usable result. At least with a TYPE or COPY to TT.i > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanna > J > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 04:52:41 -0800 (PST)r. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>4 Subject: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ?@ Message-ID: <20011113125242.18784.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   Sirs  & I would like to know if there is a way& to measure the Transactions per Minute- in an OpenVMS server (Alphasever 4100 5/600).u My OVMS is 7.1-1H2...i   Regardso  
 Fabio Cardoson   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Da F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Braziln fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:42:41 +0100!= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>-8 Subject: Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ?) Message-ID: <3BF12350.EEEC6BC5@gtech.com>r   Fabio Cardoso wrote:( > I would like to know if there is a way( > to measure the Transactions per Minute/ > in an OpenVMS server (Alphasever 4100 5/600).  > My OVMS is 7.1-1H2...f  ) It depends on what kind of transactions !.   :-).  + There are standards f.ex. TPC-C. But as farO4 as I know it cost a fortune to do a TPC-C benchmark.  2 But if you just need the number, then try and look at www.spec.org.   Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 06:47:24 -0800 (PST)p. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>8 Subject: Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ?@ Message-ID: <20011113144724.18380.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  . Compaq asked us about this question because=20) we are planning to upgrade our systems to 0 a GS-160. Consolidate 21 Alpha and VAXes running Oracle RDB in one GS...e  / I know there are softwares to measure it, but It# dont know any related to OpenVMS...v  1 They want to know the TPM. What specific I am nots sure.a   Regardss   FC=20n1 --- Arne Vajh=F8j <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:  > Fabio Cardoso wrote:* > > I would like to know if there is a way* > > to measure the Transactions per Minute1 > > in an OpenVMS server (Alphasever 4100 5/600).l > > My OVMS is 7.1-1H2...m >=20+ > It depends on what kind of transactions !  >=20 > :-)n >=20- > There are standards f.ex. TPC-C. But as fara6 > as I know it cost a fortune to do a TPC-C benchmark. >=204 > But if you just need the number, then try and look > at www.spec.org. >=20 > Arne     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dc F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Df  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:04:49 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>:8 Subject: Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ?, Message-ID: <3BF13685.B54BC6EB@videotron.ca>   Fabio Cardoso wrote:3 > They want to know the TPM. What specific I am notr > sure.s  H It depends on what application you are using. Some transactions are more complex than others.  H I needed to do something similar for capacity planning of a machine. TheL solution I found was to use monitor to record system performance to file andN set the accounting to record print jobs. That application printed one file for each transaction processed.:  K I was able to get a rough estimate of how many transactions per minute wereSJ being processed versus average CPU usage for that amount. Had to resort toL this because the application provided absolutely no indication of the numebrN of transactions per minute/shour it was processing and did not provide any API! to access its secured data files.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:35:49 +0100p= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>m8 Subject: Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ?) Message-ID: <3BF13DD5.F11A2023@dummy.com>    Compaq asked you about this ? $ Shouldn't you be asking Compaq ? :-)  0 Compaq have TPM values (whatever they mean) for,$ at least most of there VAX systems.   0 Anyway, you are planning to consolidate 21 CPU's2 into one large box. Well, many things to think of., Just to mention one, it might be possible to- put together one new CPU with much better CPUn- performance, but the disk technology have not,2 improved that much. So if you are I/O bound today,0 that could be a problem. On the other hand, more/ memory (used as Rdb-cache) could mean less needa$ for disk I/O. So it realy depends...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e     Fabio Cardoso wrote: > - > Compaq asked us about this question because + > we are planning to upgrade our systems to)2 > a GS-160. Consolidate 21 Alpha and VAXes running > Oracle RDB in one GS...e > 1 > I know there are softwares to measure it, but IP% > dont know any related to OpenVMS...n > 3 > They want to know the TPM. What specific I am note > sure.e > 	 > Regardsn >  > FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:38:36 -0500o% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>a8 Subject: Re: Transactions per Minute  / How to measure ?/ Message-ID: <tv2j4dagv8d6ba@news.supernews.com>    Try using RMU/SHOW STATISTICS.  L You should be able to find out how many TPM you're running but that could be; 1 to 1,000,000 depending upon what you do in a transaction.l  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagea: news:20011113144724.18380.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com...+ Compaq asked us about this question becauseo) we are planning to upgrade our systems tol0 a GS-160. Consolidate 21 Alpha and VAXes running Oracle RDB in one GS...c  / I know there are softwares to measure it, but Ig# dont know any related to OpenVMS...m  1 They want to know the TPM. What specific I am noti sure.    Regardsu   FC/ --- Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:i > Fabio Cardoso wrote:* > > I would like to know if there is a way* > > to measure the Transactions per Minute1 > > in an OpenVMS server (Alphasever 4100 5/600).c > > My OVMS is 7.1-1H2...c > + > It depends on what kind of transactions !  >l > :-)g >s- > There are standards f.ex. TPC-C. But as fare6 > as I know it cost a fortune to do a TPC-C benchmark. >a4 > But if you just need the number, then try and look > at www.spec.org. >g > Arne     =====d ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilf fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:24:38 -0500a, From: "Kenneth Block" <krblock@computer.org>( Subject: Re: UNIX-like utilities for VMS3 Message-ID: <ra9I7.1506$RL6.48830@news.cpqcorp.net>t  I VIM (www.vim.org) has been ported to VMS. I do not use it, but some of myfK coworkers do and they like it. Take a look at http://www.polarhome.com/vim/, for a VMS port of VIM.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:26:00 -0000 3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>c/ Subject: Re: Verify contents of the floppy disk . Message-ID: <9sqos0$1t3$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>  > "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message( news:9sp50k$6b2$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk... > 3 > "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> wrote in messagea' > news:9sfuoq$2jf$1@news2.kornet.net...pJ > > I was able to mount the DOS floppy disk on an Apha machine running VMS 7.2 K > > using the /foreign option.  The I was able to copy a file from an Alphau to > > this floppy.K > > But I can't verify what's on the floppy.  It kept saying something likeoG > > "Device is mounted as foreign".  I don't know what's all that mean?n > How about: >, > $ COPY /WRITE_CHECKlH > Same idea as MS-DOS VERIFY - data is read and checked after the write.+ > There is also a corresponding /READ_CHECK  > < > If you are looking for some sort of ID string on the disk:5 > $ DUMP DVA0: /out=temp.file /BLOCKS=(block numbers)o > $ OPEN infile temp.filetH > then use $READ and get the identification data you need (easiest if it" > is at a fixed point on the disk) > $ CLOSE infile.  >j? > Something that probably won't work, but might be worth a try:y > $ MOUNT /FOR DVA0:; > $ OPEN /READ DISK DVA0: ! Don't know if this will work...e) > $ READ DISK SECTOR         ! or this...iD > $! extract relevant information from SECTOR, or keep reading until# > $! you get the appropeiate sectori > $ CLOSE DISK  J It's bad form to follow yourself up, but I got into work today, tried thisF and it does work. However, remember that the record  you read from theL floppy disk will be full of binary data. Use F$EXTRACT to get the characters
 you need fromt the record.   H If you need to get numbers out of there, look at F$CVUI and F$CVSI under Lexicals in the Help.a  K Endian-ness might be a problem if you are dealing with numbers in there....g  L Haven't tried this myself, but if READ in DCL works, logic dictates that you- should also be able to write to the disk. So,sH if you needed to update something in sector 0 of the disk, you could do:    $ OPEN /READ /WRITE infile dva0: $ read infile recu& $! change contents of REC as necessary $ WRITE /UPDATE infile rec  H However, if you want to do _complex_ floppy manipulation, use a compiled language, or a more flexible scripting language like Perl.-    	 -Malcolm.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 07:40:33 -0800 From: jhaine@hotmail.com (JH)I Subject: VMS Crash< Message-ID: <2729b674.0111130740.51d7fe2@posting.google.com>  0 I have an Alpha cluster running OpenVMS 7.1-1H2.D Does anybody know a way to crash the system with a soft command , soF that from the remaining cluster member the system is no longer visible ?.   Thx,   JH   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:45:56 +0100e= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>a Subject: Re: VMS Crash) Message-ID: <3BF14034.59CF6A35@dummy.com>    @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN   Why "crasch" the system ?w   Jan-Erik Sderholm.a      	 JH wrote:w > 2 > I have an Alpha cluster running OpenVMS 7.1-1H2.F > Does anybody know a way to crash the system with a soft command , soH > that from the remaining cluster member the system is no longer visible > ?. >  > Thx, >  > JH   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:45:37 -0500r- From: "www.islandco.com" <sales@islandco.com>  Subject: Re: VMS Crash/ Message-ID: <tv2iojr2btbhbb@news.supernews.com>o  J Ironic that most people in the Computa Biz are trying to stop systems from: Crashing and VMS fellas have to force the system to do so.     Davidb  7 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <noone@dummy.com> wrote in message # news:3BF14034.59CF6A35@dummy.com...e > @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN >  > Why "crasch" the system ?l >g > Jan-Erik Sderholm.i >  >h >  > JH wrote:  > >f4 > > I have an Alpha cluster running OpenVMS 7.1-1H2.H > > Does anybody know a way to crash the system with a soft command , soJ > > that from the remaining cluster member the system is no longer visible > > ?. > >  > > Thx, > >g > > JH   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:39:09 +0000l( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS Crash) Message-ID: <3BF14CAC.C61D0C7F@127.0.0.1>n   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:h >  > @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN >  > Why "crasch" the system ?o  0 Yes, and use REMOVE_NODE option too in clusters.  C (Why it's not the default in a cluster environment I'll never know)    --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:17:54 +0000\% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: VMS Crash8 Message-ID: <lhh2vt07pgljloilhbqh2ho42uvnvkc3r7@4ax.com>  = On 13 Nov 2001 07:40:33 -0800, jhaine@hotmail.com (JH) wrote:   1 >I have an Alpha cluster running OpenVMS 7.1-1H2. E >Does anybody know a way to crash the system with a soft command , so:G >that from the remaining cluster member the system is no longer visible    @sys$system:shutdown4 which takes things down cleanly and finally performs $ mcr opccrash+ which you can run directly in an emergency.i  C Both require privs which I assume you have and are documented. I amdC unaware of a method to crash the system and still have it "visible""E from other cluster members. You can also force give the CRASH commandkC to the CONSOLE interface of most hardware capable of running VMS tot
 force a dump.   " What exactly are you trying to do?   >F >Thx,w >e >JH    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2001 12:46:33 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t, Subject: VMS Mandatory Update 3 -- on CD-ROM3 Message-ID: <kEMGNjlIQNNU@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  C A disc with a VMS Mandatory Update to address a DECwindows security ( vulnerability arrived in the mail today.   It is MUP 3.  H I note with satisfaction that MUP numbers are trailing Freeware numbers, and I am happy to be using VMS.s   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.632 ************************