1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 14 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 634       Contents:/ RE: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems  Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq guarantees? Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble - Re: C|Net - HP to kill older 3000 server line - Re: C|Net - HP to kill older 3000 server line  Re: DEC list like HP3000-L? ! Re: eco patches & defragmentation D Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width7 Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted " Re: Garage Sale... Hey, Hobbyists!" Re: Garage Sale... Hey, Hobbyists!" Re: Here comes the Compaq spin ...2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!F Re: HP co-founder's son hires firm to gather opposition to Compaq deal HP kills MPE. It's official.  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official. Re: HP/Compaq merger Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ?? E Re: Inquirer: Compaq white paper gives rationale for June 25 decision E Re: Inquirer: Compaq white paper gives rationale for June 25 decision E Re: Inquirer: Compaq white paper gives rationale for June 25 decision 7 Intel bought Digital a few years ago says Craig Barrett = Linking shareable library  using another shareable library !?  Re: More Compaq lies exposed1 Re: OpenVMS o/s cd-rom insufficient quotas/limits E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org # Re: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP # Re: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP # Re: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP ? Re: Using INETACP_FUNC$C_GETHOSTBYNAME using fortran- examples? ? Re: Using INETACP_FUNC$C_GETHOSTBYNAME using fortran- examples? 
 Re: VMS Crash 
 Re: VMS Crash 
 Re: VMS Crash 
 Re: VMS Crash 0 VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP, Web Connecting from an Alpha (using TCPWARE)0 Re: Web Connecting from an Alpha (using TCPWARE)0 Re: Web Connecting from an Alpha (using TCPWARE)  Re: What has Capellas achieved ?  Re: What has Capellas achieved ?  Re: What has Capellas achieved ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:54:25 -0000 * From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>8 Subject: RE: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systemsM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E476@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>   K Don't know about anyone else, but when I did my antistatic training/work, I I had a mat with a set of long cables attached. One went to a tight fitting I wrist band which had to be checked every week. The second had a crocodile L clip on it to attach to the equipment to be worked on, & the third was to beK connected to earth, a plug was the usual way. You open and spread the parts H out on the mat, so everything reaches the same potential before you even pick up your hammer & chisel.    Regards  Andrew Robinson    -----Original Message-----6 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net] Sent: 14 November 2001 02:03 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems     Nic Clews wrote: > [snip]J > You're right though Alan, you need to use an electrical earth, using the' > 'equipment' as ground is not correct!   D Curious 'bout that. Seems to me if you're at a "reference" potentialD (earth "zero") and the component/equipment as at some other, unknownH potential, the possibility of damage is at least as great as if you wereF not "grounded" at all. Seems to me that the idea should be to EQUALIZEE charges, not have one at "reference" zero and the other at an unknown  value.  H Same reason you have isolated ground circuits in your power distributionH - they're all at "the same" potential, regardless of its absolute value.  $ But then, what the hell do I know...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:07:13 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems) Message-ID: <3BF296B1.C78DE3EF@127.0.0.1>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Nic Clews wrote:
 > > [snip]L > > You're right though Alan, you need to use an electrical earth, using the) > > 'equipment' as ground is not correct!  > F > Curious 'bout that. Seems to me if you're at a "reference" potentialF > (earth "zero") and the component/equipment as at some other, unknownJ > potential, the possibility of damage is at least as great as if you wereH > not "grounded" at all. Seems to me that the idea should be to EQUALIZEG > charges, not have one at "reference" zero and the other at an unknown  > value. > J > Same reason you have isolated ground circuits in your power distributionJ > - they're all at "the same" potential, regardless of its absolute value. > & > But then, what the hell do I know...  G Before I had the training I thought same as you, same potential and all  that.   E What surprised me was you did not use the equipment as earth. This is G interesting particularly as much of the older systems, and even some of > the newer systems have built in wrist straps and earth points.  E I don't remember the numbers, but the static charge voltage needed to C damage components was very small in comparison to the normal static H charge built up on a person. (Mind you, I have a shocking personality, IF have to keep a coin or something in my hand to avoid getting zapped in
 some places).    --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 08:36:06 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0111140836.79ee16f5@posting.google.com>   h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<bgRA6tjJb0$X@eisner.encompasserve.org>...@ >    DII-COE and existing contracts probably prevent Compaq from" >    dropping all support for VMS.  A I've been wondering about this lately, because it occurred to me: = What's to prevent Compaq from providing a _different_ DII-COE E compliant system (e.g. Tru64) in place of VMS to existing VMS DII-COE F customers to meet the 15- or 20-year committments under the contracts,E instead of continuing to offer VMS?  I suspect the government's rules E with respect to DII-COE support are only concerned with compliance of @ the systems to DII-COE standards, not the extra VMS features andC facilities like clustering that we like, that happen to be there in  addition to DII-COE compliance.    Or am I missing something?C ------------------------------------------------------------------- C Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on: C Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/O    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:37:50 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)  Subject: Re: Compaq guarantees? 7 Message-ID: <915986330warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>   4 keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in3 <cf15391e.0111140836.79ee16f5@posting.google.com>:    9 >koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message 1 >news:<bgRA6tjJb0$X@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  A >>    DII-COE and existing contracts probably prevent Compaq from # >>    dropping all support for VMS.  > B >I've been wondering about this lately, because it occurred to me:> >What's to prevent Compaq from providing a _different_ DII-COEF >compliant system (e.g. Tru64) in place of VMS to existing VMS DII-COEG >customers to meet the 15- or 20-year committments under the contracts, F >instead of continuing to offer VMS?  I suspect the government's rulesF >with respect to DII-COE support are only concerned with compliance ofA >the systems to DII-COE standards, not the extra VMS features and D >facilities like clustering that we like, that happen to be there in  >addition to DII-COE compliance. >  >Or am I missing something? D >-------------------------------------------------------------------D >Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on:D >Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/O >   L I think this is an excellent question.  Maybe someone from Compaq can speak J up.  Has CPQ comitted to DII-COE support for OpenVMS, or just generic DII-J COE support, without regard for the specific os?  If it's the second one, H and extrapolating in Keith's direction, what's to stop them from middle-L manning another OS, such as Windoze or Linux (assuming the required DII-COE  stuff was crammed in) ?    ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 16:11:31 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble% Message-ID: <9su53j$d00@web.nmti.com>   . In article <3BF02028.15DC6315@baesystems.com>,6 Andrew Swallow  <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote: > Peter da Silva wrote: 2 > > In article <3BEC23EA.7E0C1871@baesystems.com>,: > > Andrew Swallow  <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> wrote:6 > > > Mail servers can run for 6 months without anyone9 > > > needing to give an order; then only to confirm that - > > > the time does need adjusting by 1 hour.   I > > *REAL* mail servers can run without being touched for years, and only L > > treat DST changes as a flag in the I/O routines when converting internal  > > time to human-readable form.  2 > That is defining the mail server as the computer$ > program rather the entire machine.  I It's defining the mail server as the administrative unit. I have had UNIX B boxes run for years (730+ days uptime) without a human running any7 administrative commands on them directly or indirectly.    --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 16:54:07 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble% Message-ID: <9su7jf$im7@web.nmti.com>   B In article <haYH7.127044$7x1.9717110@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: M > > In fact, I know of at least one case in which such a machine was *bricked K > > up inside a wall* and kept running for several years before the problem  > > was noticed.  I > That's a gem on a par with the Irish National Railway's 17-year up-time , > experience.  It deserves to be documented.  ? http://www.novell.com/customers/smallbusiness/family_spread.pdf   . 	Did you hear the one about the NetWare server6 	at the University of North Carolina that ran for four7 	years? It hadn't missed a packet in all that time. But 6 	try as they might, the university's IT administrators5 	couldn't find the server. Finally, they followed the 4 	cable: And ran-literally-into a wall. Drywall, that2 	is. Maintenance workers had mistakenly sealed the5 	server behind drywall years ago. But the server kept 5 	going. You won't hear that kind of reliability story / 	about an NT Server-for that, you need NetWare.   5 You can find it repeated many many places on the net.    --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 16:45:43 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble% Message-ID: <9su73n$hnl@web.nmti.com>   + In article <9sph5f$iu5$1@panix1.panix.com>, - Thor Lancelot Simon <tls@rek.tjls.com> wrote: K > In fact, I know of at least one case in which such a machine was *bricked I > up inside a wall* and kept running for several years before the problem  > was noticed.  I IIRC that was actually a Novell file server, that only came to light when J they started tracing cables. But it might as easily have been a UNIX, VMS,, or any other professional server OS instead.   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 02:39:38 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 6 Subject: Re: C|Net - HP to kill older 3000 server line, Message-ID: <3BF21FA7.B3F41C1F@videotron.ca>   Ken Farmer wrote:  > # > HP to kill older 3000 server line ; > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7866745.html?tag=owv   , Will Compaq imitate HP prior to the merger ?  J Or does this mean that HP decided to kill MPE to leave room for Compaq's 2( oproprietary systemns (Tandem and VMS) ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:52:03 GMT & From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>6 Subject: Re: C|Net - HP to kill older 3000 server line= Message-ID: <DqwI7.41161$Yb.12166654@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>   C That was my thought  (killing MPE to make room for VMS).  But then, E sometimes hope leads to unfounded optimism.   Normally, I try to be a J pessimist.  They are usually right, and occasionally pleasantly surprised.F However, when it comes to pessimism, I am an amateur compared to a few others here.  J Besides,  I thought they would have killed the 3000 years ago.  Good gosh,J the "new improved version of"  the thing is 26 years old.  I worked on one= of them in 1986, and it was called a legacy system back then.   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BF21FA7.B3F41C1F@videotron.ca... > Ken Farmer wrote:  > > % > > HP to kill older 3000 server line = > > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7866745.html?tag=owv  > . > Will Compaq imitate HP prior to the merger ? > L > Or does this mean that HP decided to kill MPE to leave room for Compaq's 2* > oproprietary systemns (Tandem and VMS) ? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:00:02 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> $ Subject: Re: DEC list like HP3000-L?8 Message-ID: <icj4vt8uouene15clk22bq59sjctj2q2he@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:30:22 -0600 (Central Standard Time), "Simpkins,, Terry" <terry.simpkins@SCHAEVITZ.COM> wrote:  F >Is there a list like this one for the DEC platforms, specifically VAX >and ALPHA?   F Newsgroup comp.os.vms gated to the info-vax mailing list. From the VMS faq:   INTRO4.m3 How do I subscribe to or unsubscribe from INFO-VAX?eD The address for subscription requests, as well as notes intended for0 the moderator, is Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com.  F Subscription requests are handled automatically by a mail server. ThisC mail server ignores the subject line and processes each line of theeF message as a command. The syntax for subscribing and unsubscribing and& setting digest or non-digest modes is:       * SUBSCRIBE INFO-VAXC     * UNSUBSCRIBE INFO-VAX (REMOVE, SIGNOFF, and SIGN-OFF are valide	 synonyms)o7     * SET INFO-VAX DIGEST (to receive in Digest format)lB     * SET INFO-VAX NODIGEST (to receive each message individually)  C Case is irrelevant and attempts to fetch a copy of the mailing listrE will be rejected (I consider the information to be confidential). AnynE message not understood by the mailserver will be forwarded to a human " (allegedly) for manual processing.    G >I thought it would be interesting to hear what they are thinking about  >the proposed merger4 >and what impact it might have on their platforms.    D We have pretty much the same set of views expressed by HP3000 users.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 09:59:16 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>o* Subject: Re: eco patches & defragmentationH Message-ID: <y4lmh9eniz.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  6 "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk> writes:  ( > sys$incarnation.dat, whatever that is.  M IIRC, it is used by the connection manager to make sure that each time a nodemM joins the cluster, it has a different identity (incarnation). This allows thepN other connection managers to make sure the node hasn't rebooted when it hasn'tJ been removed yet (reconnection) or it _has_ been rebooted when it had beenL removed by the others (otherwise, suicide aka CLUEXIT will result). I'm sureI that if you fool with this in just the right way, you will find excellent ) opportunities to trash your data quickly.w   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 08:36:11 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthh3 Message-ID: <snzhrUXEo75C@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  ` In article <vjd2vt0e30sit7172carngs09tq1ihidbb@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >   > What was it you found painful   H    Macro-10, for starters.  As in the hardware design, where accumulatorH    0 is a real accumulator to some instructions, but ignored for others.!    Just one of my favorite PITAs.q  F    As in not having access to the operating system calls from all highE    level languages.  Always had to write some assembly code to createN    our own interface.A  1    And having passwords on a per-directory basis.C  ?    I could go on, but I don't want to start an OS religion war.r   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 14 Nov 01 13:38:39 GMTl From: jmfbahciv@aol.comMM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthf+ Message-ID: <9su33p$t16$2@bob.news.rcn.net>u  3 In article <snzhrUXEo75C@eisner.encompasserve.org>,n1    koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:uE >In article <vjd2vt0e30sit7172carngs09tq1ihidbb@4ax.com>, Alan Greig E <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >> u! >> What was it you found painful M > I >   Macro-10, for starters.  As in the hardware design, where accumulator I >   0 is a real accumulator to some instructions, but ignored for others.i" >   Just one of my favorite PITAs.  6 Then don't use it.  I suspect you're confused, though.   >?G >   As in not having access to the operating system calls from all high-F >   level languages.  Always had to write some assembly code to create >   our own interface.  < I find that to be proper.  What system call did you need forC an application that wasn't available through the compiler language?7   >m2 >   And having passwords on a per-directory basis.  < For what?  Writing?  That happens to be a good design.  Most= directories could be read, unless somebody was really, really : paranoid or there existed a user who liked to mess around.   >r@ >   I could go on, but I don't want to start an OS religion war. >e$ It sounds more like you didn't RTFM.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:11:49 +0000v% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width 8 Message-ID: <hd55vtssjks56v7k3qpuv5duopg4t541mv@4ax.com>  8 On Wed, 14 Nov 01 13:38:39 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:    3 >>   And having passwords on a per-directory basis.i > = >For what?  Writing?  That happens to be a good design.  Most,> >directories could be read, unless somebody was really, really; >paranoid or there existed a user who liked to mess around.   E I'm guessing he means that unlike VMS TOPS-20 did not have a distincte? user authorization file but instead held details in a directoryeC header. A normal directory would be "files only" but a user accountA@ would be "not files only". Don't recall this ever causing me anyA problems though. TOPS-20 directory numbers mapped to TOPS-10 PPNs " (UICs) for compatibility purposes. >l >>A >>   I could go on, but I don't want to start an OS religion war.n >>% >It sounds more like you didn't RTFM.  >D >/BAH  >b( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:25:28 +0100-= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> @ Subject: Re: Future Programming Platforms - Your Opinions Wanted) Message-ID: <3BF24698.759B0F1A@gtech.com>D   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > >> As far as what you have to use, Java is as minimal as C. Look at Hello World in Java: > >> > >> public class HelloWorld {1 > >>   public static void main( String Args[] ) { 0 > >>     System.out.println( "Hello World!\n" );0 > >>     System.exit( 0 );  // terminate program > >>   } > >> } >  >    That's minimal?  Try this:, >  >    type *,'Hello World!' >    end  1 First, the correct HelloWorld program looks like:o   public class HelloWorld {a<    public static void main(String[] args) throws Exception {)       System.out.println("Hello World!");     } }.  > In some sense they are equivalent. Not in lines or characters.+ But in what the programmer has to remember.   $ The Java programmer has to remember:   - mandatory class wrappere   - signature of maine   - System.out.println  ' The Fortran programmer has to remember:l%   - no SUBROUTINE/FUNCTION => PROGRAM    - PROGRAM is optional    - TYPE   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:55:08 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Garage Sale... Hey, Hobbyists!n* Message-ID: <3BF285CC.10309@tsoft-inc.com>   Carl Nelson wrote:    >)  > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:i  >  >F  >> Not only INITIALIZEd but /ERASEd too.  I also do it with the indexD  >>  at the beginning middle and end so as to make sure the data hasE  >> been stomped up- on several times.  The folks at <no such agency>s>  >>  could probably find ways to resurrect the data even afterD  >> several write and erase ops but I feel fairly confident that theD  >> recipients of the drives I ship out will not be as interested inC  >> the former contents -- unless, of course, you're an oper- ativee7  >> for Usama Ben Schmuckhead in Cantcodemyownistan. --s  >>o  >C  > The process, called a "palimpsest" is based on being able to see ?  > 'behind' the current magnetic domains into past states. Veryh>  > difficult with current storage densities & methods, but notF  > impossible. The best way to defeat it is to overwrite the data withD  >  meaningless garbage several times, different patterns each time.D  > This is essentially what the security version of /erase does. TheF  > standard version (as supplied with VMS) is simply a single pattern,D  >  good for 99.999% security. There is a way to enable the multipleG  > pattern erasure for 100% coverage, but few people are that paranoid,eC  >  and it does slow your system down with lots of additional I/Os.   D Not a real problem if you have system(s) laying around and not doingH anything.  I'm a bit of a collecter like Brian is, though I think he mayD have me beat on quantity.  Just hook up the unwanted disks to an old6 VAXstation or AlphaStation and let them run overnight.  @  > Personally, I like just creating bazillions of files with theB  > complete lyrics to "It's a Small World, After All" and deleting  > them without /erase.1  
 I like it!  C  > p.s. The palimpsest process is of great use... to archeologists.1@  > Important documents were frequently written on lambskin, thenF  > scraped clean when a more important document needed to be recorded.E  >  With ultraviolet & infared lasers and false-color mapping you canvE  > read a remarkable amount of second and even third layer documents.w   Interesting.  E  > The sample code is in he examples subdirectory of SYS$HELP, calledoD  > DOD_ERAPAT.MAR. I don't remember how, but I seem to remember that>  > there is a way to link this to the /erase option of delete.  I In most cases the data is just junk to the new user of the disk, and not ?B of enough concern to worry about.  In such cases a simple INIT is . sufficient.  Regardless, the erase is prudent.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:58:39 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e+ Subject: Re: Garage Sale... Hey, Hobbyists!i0 Message-ID: <00A0508C.29453D11@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <3BF285CC.10309@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >Carl Nelson wrote:r >r > > * > > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > >x > >lG > >> Not only INITIALIZEd but /ERASEd too.  I also do it with the indextE > >>  at the beginning middle and end so as to make sure the data has F > >> been stomped up- on several times.  The folks at <no such agency>? > >>  could probably find ways to resurrect the data even after E > >> several write and erase ops but I feel fairly confident that the-E > >> recipients of the drives I ship out will not be as interested inbD > >> the former contents -- unless, of course, you're an oper- ative8 > >> for Usama Ben Schmuckhead in Cantcodemyownistan. -- > >> > >@D > > The process, called a "palimpsest" is based on being able to see@ > > 'behind' the current magnetic domains into past states. Very? > > difficult with current storage densities & methods, but notmG > > impossible. The best way to defeat it is to overwrite the data witheE > >  meaningless garbage several times, different patterns each time. E > > This is essentially what the security version of /erase does. TheeG > > standard version (as supplied with VMS) is simply a single pattern,IE > >  good for 99.999% security. There is a way to enable the multiple H > > pattern erasure for 100% coverage, but few people are that paranoid,D > >  and it does slow your system down with lots of additional I/Os. >nE >Not a real problem if you have system(s) laying around and not doinghI >anything.  I'm a bit of a collecter like Brian is, though I think he may E >have me beat on quantity.  Just hook up the unwanted disks to an oldr7 >VAXstation or AlphaStation and let them run overnight.   E Ordinarily, I would INIT/ERASE the disks on an alpha which has my own C DOD_ERAPAT like facility where I can change the pattern on the fly. D However, I was really pressed for time and didn't want to muck aboutE to create a similar DOD_ERAPAT on the VAX that I used to format thesec disks.  F I'm fairly confident that those that have received these drives do notF have the fund or the wherewithall to "scrape" the residual bit off of E these drives.  They have been initialized and scrittled over several  E times (and formatted too in the ESDI cases) which sould keep the gen- % eral prying eyes out of my business. N   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMp            .J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesr   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:07:41 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) + Subject: Re: Here comes the Compaq spin ...o3 Message-ID: <6ivYvkH5dCqr@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  W In article <tv3na9bl0vcab3@corp.supernews.com>, Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net> writes:a > Bill Todd wrote: >>  L >> Still, 1.6 x Merced's 314 SPECint2K Dell number (the only one at the SPECL >> site running 64-bit code, since the HP 358 number was reportedly obtainedL >> using an ILP32 compiler) is only about 502, which isn't competitive today >> let alone next year.b >>  E >>> (And still some fifty percent slower than an Alpha from 2001....) I >>> Will McKinley and Madison come after their successors? (I thought McK-G >>> was scheduled for ~mid 2002, how can systems of their successors beP
 >>> available  >>> at that date?? >> r  < 	That number is too low.  Paul DeMone talks about 2.5 Merced  	(according to Intel I suppose):  M http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?section=columns&AID=RWT071901001629&p=4s  O "Unofficial sources even suggest the McKinley will demonstrate 2.5x the integeriK performance and 2.0x the FP performance of Itanium as measured by SPEC2k."	u  @ 	Which would make it fairly respectable for SpecInt and the partF 	to beat for FP.  Maybe we can talk about cost for a while and compare? 	that to others.  Total system cost and respectable performancei< 	are the keys to Itanium taking off.  Yes... Merced is Dead,< 	McKinley isn't and Itanium finally gets something next year
 	sometime.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:10:55 +0000-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>1; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!a8 Message-ID: <t8k4vto57tlb02dphvvdttb7ec3jqob1eo@4ax.com>  / On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:50:29 GMT, Tim Llewellyne& <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:   >  >v >Bob Ceculski wrote: > F >> week on the post above?  a few times i have pasted a short article,H >> but many others do the same on this board ... what's with everyone onH >> this board?  must be some on this board are going thru change of life >> or something! >-F >In Bob's defence others have requested in the past that people do not3 >just post URLs, but also include the article text.0 >sA >ISP is having newsserver problems so having problems keeping up.r  F Nameserver problems seem to be hitting a lot of people. I seem to haveF particular trouble with .co.uk addresses but all other domains seem to5 be returning a higher false failure rate than normal.l     -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:09 CSTc' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins),; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!g- Message-ID: <14NOV200112094407@gerg.tamu.edu>i  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...d }Larry Kilgallen wrote:yG }> > Are you suggesting we use "Industry standard English" from now on?s }>   }> Kewl, dood.  That RULEZ !!! }  } * }I tough it was "dude" instead of "dood".  } L }Perhaps another difference between USA english and standard English :-) :-)  = Perhaps you should both use "d00d", if you want to be "l33t".r   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 16:36:25 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)O Subject: Re: HP co-founder's son hires firm to gather opposition to Compaq dealn* Message-ID: <3bf28f79$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  S In article <9sirn5$2ct$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:T: >   http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1127072F >   HP co-founder's son hires firm to gather opposition to Compaq deal >k >  'Bloomberg Business Newsr > I >   PALO ALTO, Calif. -- Hewlett-Packard Co. director Walter Hewlett, sonaF >   of a company co-founder, has hired a proxy-solicitation firm as heE >   opposes the second-biggest computer maker's planned $20.5 billion 3 >   purchase of Houston-based Compaq Computer Corp.X >qJ >   Hewlett family members and the William R. Hewlett Revocable Trust saidF >   earlier this week they will vote their 5 percent stake against the	 >   deal.h > G >   Friday, Walter Hewlett's spokeswoman Joele Frank said Hewlett hirede' >   proxy solicitor MacKenzie Partners.  > E >   A move like this typically signals the start of a proxy battle toGF >   control the direction of a company, and investors said it's likelyD >   that Walter Hewlett -- who previously said he hadn't decided howH >   strongly to fight the acquisition -- is about to go on the offensive2 >   to try to lure other shareholders to his side. >nE >   Walter Hewlett hasn't decided whether to start asking for proxieslE >   against the purchase, although he wanted to keep the option open,t >   Frank said.e >tI >   New York-based MacKenzie earlier this year helped Computer AssociateswI >   International fend off a bid by Dallas billionaire Sam Wyly to gain aaF >   voice on the software maker's board and push for internal reforms. >-G >   Walter Hewlett, his sisters, Eleanor Hewlett Gimon and Mary HewlettjE >   Jaffe, the William R. Hewlett Revocable Trust and the William andhE >   Flora Hewlett Foundation own more than 100 million shares of PalotC >   Alto-based Hewlett-Packard. Family members have complained thatu> >   acquiring Compaq would boost the company's position in theA >   personal-computer market, a business where profit margins arenI >   shrinking and annual sales are forecast to fall for the first time inl >   more than 15 years.n >nD >   David W. Packard, a former board member whose Packard HumanitiesJ >   Institute owns more than 25 million shares of the company, has said heB >   supports Walter Hewlett's view and will vote against the deal. >tE >   An HP spokeswoman said Hewlett-Packard has rescheduled a December F >   meeting with financial analysts for early next year so it can give+ >   more details of its plan to buy Compaq.6 > D >   Also Friday, Compaq board member Thomas Perkins said the plannedJ >   purchase is opposed by Hewlett and Packard family members because they >   don't understand the deal. > C >   "I don't think they know the company or the industry," Perkins, J >   founder of venture-capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, said >   in an interview. >iI >   "Neither one has exposure to the inner beauty of Compaq. To reject iteE >   before you know what it's all about -- I don't like it, and I wass >   surprised by that."' >e( >There is any "inner beauty of Compaq" ?   Yup, it's called [Open]VMS.y   SCNR   -- s< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:44:11 +0000t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>1% Subject: HP kills MPE. It's official.n8 Message-ID: <bm35vtgu86dfbo2vjpbf7j18p9bmu746ut@4ax.com>  F Now then Rob and the rest,. You were just telling us all recently thatE we could be sure VMS would be safe with HP because their own MPE was.W What say you now?d  D Also notice that HP make out that they are doing this to make things easier for customers.   @ Wake up and stop the plan to kill VMS now! Shannon you should beF ashamed of yourself for colluding with Compaq to mislead customers andD shareholders. And what good has it done you considering the amount I> guess you have in Compaq stock? Current SKC subscribers shouldE consider canceling subscriptions immediately. Perhaps Terry will take ? notice of *his* customers voting with their feet even if Compaqp doesn't.   Sorry about the formatting:e  ' http://www.hp3000links.com/ende3000.pdfp   Hewlett-Packard Company  19447 Pruneridge Avenuei Cupertino,CA 95014-0683 
 www.hp.com Winston Prathere General Manageru HP e3000 Businessr
 Jim Murphy General Managerh HP Server Supportw November 14,2001   Dear valued HP customer:E This letter contains important news concerning the HP e3000 family ofl	 products.nE For almost 30 years,the HP e3000 has been one of the industry s most- reliableB platforms for running mission-critical applications.It has enabled customers to keepnC pace with current technology,while simultaneously providing supportt
 for legacy7 applications that are used to run their businesses.Over. time,however,the HP e30003> business has been impacted by some key trends in the computing	 industry.r  D  The Move to Open Systems:Customers are moving away from proprietary systems,D purchasing low-cost solutions based on high volume,industry standard	 platformsr= instead.Consequently,many of the companies that have providedg applications> and tools for the HP e3000 have shifted their attention toward HP-UX,Windows,E and Linux.This erosion of the HP e3000 ecosystem  is making it morel
 difficult foruA customers to find new applications,new products,and expertise fors theira
 HP e3000s.  B  Technology Evolution:Technology is changing so rapidly that it is becomingB increasingly difficult for HP to justify the investments needed to keep the HP e3000r up to date.oA As a result,HP has determined a future end of sales date for thise productrC line.We are now advising our HP e3000 customers to begin evaluatinge and planning? transitions to other HP servers running HP-UX,Windows or Linux.o( During this transitional period,HP will:  A  Continue to provide a broad portfolio of support services for HPA e3000cD systems until December 31,2006 .Customers can rely upon a safe,fully@ supported HP e3000 environment for up to five more years.We have extendedF previously announced end-of-support dates for most currently supported HP e3000C systems to aid customers  migration efforts..(See attached supporta summary for 	 details.)>  @  Continue to sell and enhance HP e3000 systems until October 31,A 2003.Customers have two years to make additional purchases of theo A-ClasscD and N-Class systems.During this time,HP will continue to improve the HP e3000@ with more powerful processors and operating system enhancements. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:32:03 -0500h- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>r) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official. 2 Message-ID: <k0xI7.58584$Z2.870668@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:bm35vtgu86dfbo2vjpbf7j18p9bmu746ut@4ax.com... > ... ) > http://www.hp3000links.com/ende3000.pdfa > ...,  J So the "Nasty Rumor" was true. Read through the .PDF and substitute CompaqI for HP, VMS for MPE and Alpha for HP300 and see what it reads like. Everyn< reason they give for killing MPE could easily apply for VMS.  I You left off page 3 of the .PDF page, particularly the line that says "WeoH are truly committed to continuing to earn your trust and loyalty, and toL helping you make a smooth transition to another HP platform." Where's AndrewJ when we need him, a lot of people are looking for Sun's phone number rightK now, I know I would be if I ran MPE, I definitely will be if Compaq decidesi' to show the same level of incompetence.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:42:28 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.T3 Message-ID: <sDfBnMg4mIY+@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  ` In article <bm35vtgu86dfbo2vjpbf7j18p9bmu746ut@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > H > Now then Rob and the rest,. You were just telling us all recently thatG > we could be sure VMS would be safe with HP because their own MPE was., > What say you now?a >   ) 	I say that is no longer a good argument.y  F > Also notice that HP make out that they are doing this to make things > easier for customers., >    	If that was the only reason.e  - > Wake up and stop the plan to kill VMS now! u  B 	No plan.  Conspiracies abound everywhere.  I don't buy into them	 	all.w   Shannon you should betH > ashamed of yourself for colluding with Compaq to mislead customers and > shareholders. Ag   	Pleeze.  7 > nd what good has it done you considering the amount Im@ > guess you have in Compaq stock? Current SKC subscribers should0 > consider canceling subscriptions immediately.   # 	This is going to be a long thread.u   Perhaps Terry will takeiA > notice of *his* customers voting with their feet even if Compaq 
 > doesn't.  @ 	Yeah... maybe his customers have different views and certainly	? 	aren't going to cancel because they perceive him as a suck-up.n4 	He does take jabs.  But he is also very supportive.   >  > Sorry about the formatting:n >   
 	That's okay.e  ) > http://www.hp3000links.com/ende3000.pdf  >  > Hewlett-Packard Company> > 19447 Pruneridge Avenuef > Cupertino,CA 95014-0683r > www.hp.com > Winston Prather> > General Manager  > HP e3000 Businesse > Jim Murphy > General ManagerD > HP Server Supportr > November 14,2001 > F >  The Move to Open Systems:Customers are moving away from proprietary
 > systems,F > purchasing low-cost solutions based on high volume,industry standard > platforms ? > instead.Consequently,many of the companies that have providede > applications@ > and tools for the HP e3000 have shifted their attention toward > HP-UX,Windows,G > and Linux.This erosion of the HP e3000 ecosystem  is making it morel > difficult for C > customers to find new applications,new products,and expertise forV > their, > HP e3000s. >   > 	Too bad.  Maybe if MPE had become COE compliant it might have@ 	had a porting path.  Maybe if MPE had Oracle as a large base...  D >  Technology Evolution:Technology is changing so rapidly that it is
 > becomingD > increasingly difficult for HP to justify the investments needed to > keep the HP e3000 
 > up to date.   ? 	Sounds like an Alpha argument.  You wonder just how much money:C 	MPE was/is making and how badly it is tailing off?  The issue heretA 	is they are looking at a crossover point and killed it.  i.e. ink4 	3 years it is a money loser instead of money maker.  C > As a result,HP has determined a future end of sales date for thist	 > product E > line.We are now advising our HP e3000 customers to begin evaluatingy > and planningA > transitions to other HP servers running HP-UX,Windows or Linux.e* > During this transitional period,HP will: >   D 	Future end of sales?  Guess what?  Sales are probably going to tail 	off dramatically.  C >  Continue to provide a broad portfolio of support services for HP  > e3000 F > systems until December 31,2006 .Customers can rely upon a safe,fullyB > supported HP e3000 environment for up to five more years.We have
 > extendedH > previously announced end-of-support dates for most currently supported
 > HP e3000E > systems to aid customers  migration efforts..(See attached supports
 > summary for  > details.)s > B >  Continue to sell and enhance HP e3000 systems until October 31,C > 2003.Customers have two years to make additional purchases of thee	 > A-Class F > and N-Class systems.During this time,HP will continue to improve the
 > HP e3000B > with more powerful processors and operating system enhancements.  3 	They are improving it even as they are killing it.   A 	Lot of arguments swirl over this one.  RSX upgrade path was VMS.hC 	MPE upgrade path?  None.  Very proprietary.  But they hope to helpe% 	you to migrate to other HP products.a  D 	One wonders if this is a shoe that HP was willing to drop if Compaq4 	dropped the Alpha shoe?  One can't help but wonder.   				Robw   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 02:36:55 -08002 From: ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com (M. Ranjit Mathews) Subject: Re: HP/Compaq mergerA= Message-ID: <1d4c67e3.0111140236.65f0b0f3@posting.google.com>t  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote ...eN > You know, I am not sure I really care about the merger. What I would like toN > see is Winkler given the boot and Compaq told that it should drop its wintelG > focus and leverage their VMS/Tru64/Alpha/Tandem businesses, includingo > workstations.  > P > Perhaps there is better chance of that happening if Compaq is dropped and toldL > to reorganise by itself to survive. That might be a big enough slap in theM > face and vote of non-confidence to instill REAL change. But I am not really&K > convinced this would happen. It is more likely that the slap inb the face0C > would tell Compaq to fix its PC business to compete against Dell.e > N > I am still wondering if the PC business will eventually come to be dominated2 > by Asians with US companies not able to compete.  D Many notebook computers are already made in Asia with only the labelD being slapped on by a US company. Consider Qanta computer in Taiwan.; It puts together notebook computers by the truckload for USl: "manufacturers" who are really only reselling (rather thanD manufacturing) them. It's just as easy for a US company to outsourceD manufacturing to Asia as it is for an Asian company, so why would US! companies not be able to compete?t  C Would Qanta be able to outcompete its present customers (those thatcB are US companies)? If Qanta decided to sell computers it assemblesA with a Qanta label rather than let them be sold with a Dell (say)eF label, how would it gain such market share that Dell would not be ableD to compete? Quanta would have to spend oodles of money on developing> sales channels, during which time it would lose Dell and otherF customers' business. Dell wouldn't be letting the grass grow under itsF feet; it would outsource its manufacturing to some other Asian companyB and command the ability to sell the computers thus manufactured as@ cheaply as Qanta can sell them through any sales channels it can develop.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:38:33 +0000n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??) Message-ID: <3BF249A9.BEE977EB@127.0.0.1>    Alan Greig wrote:   ( > Better get that PowerPC port underway.  E I'm sure someone said that hardware dependence was being removed fromk VMS, or did I dream it ;-)  G Friday in London will be, interesting. I believe there's an unschedulede2 addition to the agenda, be there or be uninformed.  " http://www.decus.org.uk/IPF111.htm   -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:22:35 +1100e. From: Burnie M <burniem.NOSPAM@ozemail.com.au>" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??8 Message-ID: <stk4vtsa5q9cm1scs98hut3oenthhndl6r@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:37:23 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e  " >mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote:L >> People with IBM for 20 years or more might consider it divine retributionK >> and righteous vengeance against those Compaq upstarts for building thoseg/ >> faster-than-ours "IBM-compatible" PC things.-O >> On the plus side, IBM already knows how to build an Alpha, has VMS resourcesaB >> in IBM GS and has a potential IPF-crusher already in the works. >"O >I see it more as a way for IBM to prevent Intel from getting too much momentumiC >with its IA64. By depriving Intel from VMS and Tandem (and Tru64's H >technologies), and having those ported to Power, it will give Power theO >"serious systems chip" while IA64 will be relegated to running wintel crap andd >HP's inferior Unix.    * Wintel may be crap but lets not be stupid;< If you think HP-UX is inferior then you don't understand the technology or the market.-   Burnie M   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:20:59 +0100a= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>s" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??) Message-ID: <3BF2539B.5342BE11@dummy.com>s  9 Will there be some "handouts" available from this event ?l   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Nic Clews wrote: > I > Friday in London will be, interesting. I believe there's an unscheduledo4 > addition to the agenda, be there or be uninformed. > $ > http://www.decus.org.uk/IPF111.htm   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:25:08 -0800 (PST)a. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??@ Message-ID: <20011114112508.95353.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>   IBM ? I dont like them much.  + Bad Intel hardware ! Bad Software for WNT !m  ' They are good just in semiconductor ande% hard disks nowadays - maiframes too !e  / Ok, they bought Lotus ! But they have the messya, product called Tivoli ! IBM is lost too !=20  , What about Siemens/Fujitsu buying Compaq ???( It should put Compaq more asian-european
 centric !!!!!a  & Or the Defense will not permit it ????   Regardsf   FC=20y  - --- Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:  > Alan Greig wrote:u >=20* > > Better get that PowerPC port underway. >=204 > I'm sure someone said that hardware dependence was > being removed from > VMS, or did I dream it ;-) >=202 > Friday in London will be, interesting. I believe > there's an unscheduled4 > addition to the agenda, be there or be uninformed. >=20$ > http://www.decus.org.uk/IPF111.htm >=20 > --=20r* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comf     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DiL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dt F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazild fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dn  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:51:26 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> " Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??8 Message-ID: <mul4vto9rqpfnia17mo5h5lmckudk2ui13@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:38:33 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Alan Greig wrote: >2) >> Better get that PowerPC port underway.e > F >I'm sure someone said that hardware dependence was being removed from >VMS, or did I dream it ;-)e >PH >Friday in London will be, interesting. I believe there's an unscheduled3 >addition to the agenda, be there or be uninformed.  > # >http://www.decus.org.uk/IPF111.htmi  A I'll be there assuming the latest crash is still thought to be aneA accident. Corporate will likely impose a non-essential flight ban B again (only lifted two weeks ago) otherwise. First time I've flown; business related with EasyJet. 44 Pounds (approx 60 dollarstB Edinburgh/London 500 miles return) for my first choice flights. BAC around 300 pounds return for the same times. BA making huge losses,  Easyjet profitable. Bizarre...  E Low cost flights are so cheap at the moment I'll actually get more in.F private car use allowance to drive to the airport than the cost of the flight.      -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:32:23 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) " Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??7 Message-ID: <915971080warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>   I mcleanj@dplanet.ch (John McLean) wrote in <3BF15F0E.ACA8C1F9@dplanet.ch>:    >e/ >Not being one to let a good rumour go past ...e >< >IBM to bid for CPQ? u >cF >Article at http://www.theinquirer.net/13110115.htm  suggests that IBMD >might mount a hostile bid for Compaq "and cut off HP at the gulch". >s! >Now that would be interesting ..e >S >u >John McLean  I Ironic:  IBM would likely need to punt much of CPQ's money-losing Wintel aJ focus, essentially removing the CPQ from CPQ.  Thus, CPQ's apparent route E to survival is to kill most of itself, yet leave standing those high- 0 quality technologies it acquired in its hey-day.  H Hmm, if CPQ could work through the de-commissioning costs, you wouldn't G even need an acquisition to make this happen - a simple BOD transplant o might do the trick.c   ws   -- d   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:51:03 -0500u5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??3 Message-ID: <kcyI7.1564$RL6.50540@news.cpqcorp.net>e  J Ignoring all the crap.  My opinion is that Power4 is the baddest thing outH there short of an EV7, and IBM is a gorilla with staying power and cash.K What Power is missing is Windows64.  Power and Itanium will be the dominant K 64-bit architectures 5 years from now.  I'll be happy to be on either.  I'mu planning on being on Itanium.e      = JF Mezei wrote in message <3BF1A6F3.8EAEC33D@videotron.ca>...u >Alan Greig wrote:) >> Better get that PowerPC port underway.h >bJ >I was thinking about why would IBM really want Compaq for. But with AlphaH >dead, porting tru64 and VMS to power pc might put volumes just over the top,H >allowing IBM to make Power PC a truly competitive chip and kill Intel's IA64.s >eI >With HP and Compaq having stated that they wanted to be like IBM, if IBM  wereK >to remove the stuff inside of Compaq that could make Compaq like IBM ( VMSo andoK >Tandem and Alpha), then IBM would ensure it remans well ahead of the pack.f > J >By buying Compaq, IBM could also gain control and access to all of the IP of1 >Digital, some of which might be of value to IBM.t > F >The big question is whether that would be worth the purchase price of Compaq.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:04:36 +0000 (UTC)a From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??+ Message-ID: <9subnk$i3f$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   k In article <kcyI7.1564$RL6.50540@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:CK >Ignoring all the crap.  My opinion is that Power4 is the baddest thing outtI >there short of an EV7, and IBM is a gorilla with staying power and cash. L >What Power is missing is Windows64.  Power and Itanium will be the dominantL >64-bit architectures 5 years from now.  I'll be happy to be on either.  I'm >planning on being on Itanium. >s  J Power will pretty likely to be one of the dominent 64-bit architectures in7 5 years time. But as for Itanium I wouldn't be so sure.hM At this stage I think it is at least as likely that Hammer will build on it'sm) 32 bit compatability and eclipse Itanium.o  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:35:09 GMT18 From: "Steven Santinelli" <Santinelli@smscompNOSPAM.com>N Subject: Re: Inquirer: Compaq white paper gives rationale for June 25 decision9 Message-ID: <hquI7.344$wt.137527@news1.news.adelphia.net>i  J My confusion, is really, if IA4 is Sooooo good, how come they needed Alpha to actually DESIGN the IA4?!?!  J No, I think it was more that Compaq wanted to get out of the semiconductorH business entirely, and get closer to Intel, since hey, PC's are Compaq's	 bread and  butter!e  K The other funny part is, Didn't Digital design the StrongARM processor thate Intelp! now sells, to put in the Ipaq's?!y    < Steve - Waiting for someone to want VMS support in NH... :^)    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BF1E13C.D6E83660@videotron.ca... > Keith Parris wrote:m > >oG > > The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/13110111.htm) is reporting I > > today that Compaq has released a white paper giving its rationale forl > > the June 25 decision,- >-L > Unless you're a brainwahsed Compaq employee, why should you bother readingL > such attempt at propaganda ? It would waste customer's time, especially if+ > they have to spend time searching for it.g > J > Compaq murdered Alpha. There is no way that Compaq can spin this to make themE > look good. They broke their commitment to customers and in doing son	 customerscH > lost trust into Compaq. Some white paper isn't going to fix that. As a matterH > of fact, any attempt at spinning this murder into something else would only" > diminish whatever trust remains. >aF > Compaq killed Alpha. Nothing we can do about it. The only thing that CompaqE > can do is to do it utmost to make EV7 the best chip (so it can't bel
 accused ofL > purposefully slowling down EV7) and then get Intel to deliver the promisedL > goods. If Intel doesn't deliver an IA64 that is better than Alpha on time,C > tough luck. Compaq put all its eggs in the Intel basket against'sn
 customers'G > wishes. Too bad. I won't feel any sorrow for Compaq if Intel fails tou delivers > IA64 ON TIME.b   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:57:57 +0000 (UTC)   From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalidN Subject: Re: Inquirer: Compaq white paper gives rationale for June 25 decision* Message-ID: <9su0pl$7u7$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>  7 Steven Santinelli <Santinelli@smscompnospam.com> wrote:c  M : The other funny part is, Didn't Digital design the StrongARM processor that  : Intelt# : now sells, to put in the Ipaq's?!p  " Co-design, or tweak-the-cache-of~.% The "ARM" in StrongARM is an acronym. B Advanced RISC Machines Ltd. asked DEC's Alpha guys for assistance.  ? I guess it's pretty logical - Digits providing ARM with a hand.y :)   D.  1 PS - they've also got several "Thumb" families :)  --  ! I don't get mad.... I get stabby.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:54:11 -0500n5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> N Subject: Re: Inquirer: Compaq white paper gives rationale for June 25 decision3 Message-ID: <gfyI7.1565$RL6.50630@news.cpqcorp.net>e  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3BF1E13C.D6E83660@videotron.ca>...P >Keith Parris wrote: >>F >> The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/13110111.htm) is reportingH >> today that Compaq has released a white paper giving its rationale for >> the June 25 decision, >lK >Unless you're a brainwahsed Compaq employee, why should you bother readingbK >such attempt at propaganda ? It would waste customer's time, especially ifs* >they have to spend time searching for it. >o     Must control fist of death.o  K The white paper outlines officially what I've suggested all along.  This iswG *exactly* the story I heard from day 1 from the horses mouth, and isn'tg# something made up for spin control.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:32:05 +0000y% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a@ Subject: Intel bought Digital a few years ago says Craig Barrett8 Message-ID: <k075vt4s16saf9r93dtfl3d75sll0e7c02@4ax.com>  / http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/14687.htmln  B Barrett: Well, we bought Digital Equipment a few years ago, and it@ came with the first generation of the StrongArm processor. We'reE basically in the process of introducing the second generation of thatuB -- that's the X-Scale processor. In '02, youll see that come out.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 07:47:46 -0800( From: reslfj@ofir.dk (Lars Funck Jensen)F Subject: Linking shareable library  using another shareable library !?= Message-ID: <49807d45.0111140747.5ac097db@posting.google.com>s  E I have the following macro32 program that i try to link as a sharableaE image. The program is a "jacket" procedure that put parameters passedbG in registers (ap and r2) onto the stack and "calls" a c program. The c hF program calls MQSeries to put and get messages. The c program needs to access the mqm.exe library.   K The problem I have is linking the module and getting the dynamic linking tomK work. As my problem can be reproduced without calling the c program I have   commented the calls out.  @ If I link it with the option file, install it and try to call it my calling program just hangs. r  C If i remove the line "SYS$SHARE:MQM/SHAREABLE" from the option file : it returns with the expected return code (3,4,... or 101).   Any help ??????w   /lars funck jensen    6 The security of cma_msqe.exe and sys$share:mqm.exe are0 CMA_MQSE.EXE;7       [SYSTEM] (RWED,RWED,RE,RE) 1 MQM.EXE;1            MQM      (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)  4     $ macro/mig rnatmqse& $ LINK/SHARE/MAP/FULL CMA_MQSE.OPT/OPTA $ install replace/open/header/share SAG$ROOT:[CMA.MQ]CMA_MQSE.EXEu; $ define/system/exec rnatmqse SAG$ROOT:[CMA.MQ]CMA_MQSE.EXEe ...  $ type cma_mqse.opti GSMATCH=LEQUAL,1,1! SAG$ROOT:<CMA.MQ>CMA_MQSE/LIBRARYS" symbol_vector=(RNATMQSE=procedure) !n SYS$SHARE:MQM/SHAREABLE  $e .... $ type rnatmqse.mare:                 .psect RNATMQSE_code,exe,nowrt,rel,pic,shr  ,                 .call_entry max_args=31,   -,                             home_args=TRUE,-,                             input=<R2>,    -H                             preserve=<R2,R3,R4,R5,R6,R7,R8,R9,R10,R11>,-*                             label=RNATMQSE ;uO         movzbl  (ap),r0                ; place no. of NATURAL parameters in R0.iA         cmpl    r0,#2                  ; must be at least 3      oO         bgtr    10$                    ; if no. parameters > 2  - process them.tJ         brw     err                    ; if less than 2 parameters - done. 10$:2         pushl   r2                     ; *parmdec >         addl3   #4,ap,r1               ; skip # param longword2         pushl   r1                     ; **parmptr@         pushl   r0                     ; # of NATURAL parameters ;                     ? ;       calls   #3,rcxxmqse            ; call HGP's C   programtO ;                                      ; Return code in r0 is passes to NATURALo ;lB         ret                            ; Return to NATURAL program ;lO err:    movl    #101,r0                ; Macro interface errcode:"Not 3 parm's"n         reto ;m ;e                 .end   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:56:51 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)% Subject: Re: More Compaq lies exposed % Message-ID: <9su483$b3d@web.nmti.com>d  / In article <3BF15820.FEBD83AF@dimensional.com>,m/ Bob Grumbine  <bgrumbin@dimensional.com> wrote:rG > Alan Greig wrote a detailed analysis of some aspects of the proposed cG > merger of CPQ into HWP.  I am responding in this brief manner only to1L > make sure that Alan understands there is an *interlocking* director shared > by MSFT and HWP.  G According to theyrule.net the only connection is that Carly and Raymond 3 Gilmartin of Microsoft are both on the Merck board.s   Can you be more explicit?e   -- w+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.tE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."cL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:43:41 GMT-1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>1: Subject: Re: OpenVMS o/s cd-rom insufficient quotas/limits1 Message-ID: <3BF28363.BDA4895@clarityconnect.com>D  E What you show below has absolutely no effect on the parameters of the3E current process.  Now if you SPAWN a subprocess then you will get theg@ larger for the non-pooled quotas but not for the pooled ones andC pagefile quota which I'm almost positive is the low quota here is aa
 pooled quota.a   Jim Strehlow wrote:  > - > When I boot from the OpenVMS v7.2-1 cd-rom,n= > I modified the following dynamic parameters without successp >  > $$$ MCR SYSGEN > SET PQL_DFILLM       1000n > SET PQL_MFILLM       1000h > SET PQL_DBIOLM       1000a > SET PQL_MBIOLM       1000t > SET PQL_DDIOLM       1000n > SET PQL_MDIOLM       1000i >  > SET PQL_DASTLM       3000n > SET PQL_MASTLM       3000n > SET PQL_DTQELM       3000r > SET PQL_MTQELM       3000e > SET PQL_DENQLM       40004 > SET PQL_MENQLM       4000  >  > SET PQL_DBYTLM     500000U > SET PQL_MBYTLM     500000b > SET PQL_DJTQUOTA     8192u > SET PQL_MJTQUOTA     8192  >  > SET PQL_DWSDEFAULT   4000o > SET PQL_MWSDEFAULT   4000M > SET PQL_DWSQUOTA     6000- > SET PQL_MWSQUOTA     60001 > SET PQL_DWSEXTENT   32768r > SET PQL_MWSEXTENT   32768? > SET PQL_DPGFLQUOTA 250000: > SET PQL_MPGFLQUOTA 250000e > WRITE ACTIVE > < > CREATE  SYS$SYSTEM:PAGEFILE.SYS /SIZE= 2105300 /CONTIGUOUS+ > INSTALL SYS$SYSTEM:PAGEFILE.SYS /PAGEFILE < > CREATE  SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS /SIZE=   67300 /CONTIGUOUS+ > INSTALL SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS /SWAPFILEi >  > When I, > $$$ ANALYZE /DISK_STRUCTURE /REPAIR  dunn: > ) > I still get insufficient virtual memory-7 > %ANALDISK-F-ALLOCMEM, error allocating virtual memoryT/ > -LIB-F-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memory> > N > When I alter SYSTEM to the following when I boot from a system disk, analyze > works.E > MODIFY SYSTEM /FILLM= 1000 /SHRFILLM= 0 /BIOLM= 1000 /DIOLM= 1000 -f+ >  /ASTLM= 3000 /TQELM= 3000 /ENQLM= 4000 -i- >  /BYTLM= 500000 /PBYTLM= 0 /JTQUOTA= 8192 - F >  /WSDEFAULT= 2048 /WSQUOTA= 4096 /WSEXTENT= 32768 /PGFLQUOTA= 250000 > M > Might my problem be related to WSMAX which is not dynamic at 24000 from thet	 > cd-rom?  >  > Jim Strehlow, Data911e > > > "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote in message0 > news:<3BF037FE.454146CB@clarityconnect.com>...> > > You can also boot conversational and then do the following. > > SYSBOOT> SET PQL_MPGFLQUOTA {large number}! > > SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0n > > SYSBOOT> CONTM > H > > Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY1 > > - jilly@clarityconnect.com - Brett Bodine fang/ > > - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com - since 1975 or sow/ > > - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -a   -- cD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:49:21 +0000D% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>=N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <f2e4vtoerb0h8ut58vt7kajhkfag5qc70l@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:55:04 GMT, Tim Llewellyn-& <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:     >r@ >you mean until they could scrounge up some reasonable evidence?  B I should know better than to get back into this but it troubled meB greatly that one of the last guided missiles fired at Kabul as theE Northern Alliance entered scored a direct hit on the Arabic satelliteeC channel studios totally destroying it. The BBC studio was 50 metres E away and UK residents will likely have seen the clip of the explosionbD and blast damage to the BBC studios as the BBC reporter (on air liveD with BBC World at the time) was showered in broken glass and debris.D Also seriously damaged was the Associated Press offices. To the bestF of my knowledge CNN had not been allowed to stay in Kabul so naturally they had no offices to damage.  E Obviously reporting from a war zone is extremely dangerous but the USoB knew exactly where the press were and had managed to avoid hittingC them up to now. It doesn't help world public opinion if you destroy.@ the main Arabic news channels offices and seriously damage thoseB belonging to the BBC and AP.  Someone should have been moe careful( with the targeting of the last missiles.  E According to the BBC the Taleban had almost completely withdrawn from- Kabul by this point.  B Don't know how much of the BBC or similar footage was shown in theC States but it was quite dramatic as they provided live or near livea? coverage from Kabul of the Taleban retreating. On the plus sideaC electricity was restored in Kabul last night so humanitarian issues   have obviously not been ignored.  $ www.bbc.co.uk/news for BBC coverage.H http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1650000/video/_1654928_kabul_omah22_vi.ram+ for the video of the blast hitting the BBC.t    l   -- Alan   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 14 Nov 01 10:24:42 GMTw From: jmfbahciv@aol.commN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <9stno6$fu6$4@bob.news.rcn.net>s  > In article <dNnI7.8062$jp.862753@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,.    "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: > ? >Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message ( >news:3BF1EA2A.A91458@cableinet.co.uk... >> >> >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >> >2 >> > In article <87d72nbu1d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,5 >> >    Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: 2 >> > >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> > >I >> > >> Do I believe that discussion and evidence would have obtained the J >> > >> Taliban's consent?  Not necessarily (and of course now we'll neverJ >> > >> know for sure) - but making the effort *would* have allowed us to  beH >> > >> perceived as having attempted to go about things properly ratherJ >> > >> than as a global bully who can all the more easily be perceived as= >> > >> having in some ways deserved the sucker punch we got.a >> > >J >> > >The Taliban offered to deliver OBL to a 3rd muslim country for trialG >> > >if reasonable evidence was presented to them. The shrub turned ite >> > >down flat. >> > >  >> > That was a delaying tactic. >>B >> you mean until they could scrounge up some reasonable evidence? >bI >Excellent rejoinder.  But kidding aside, what Barb likely means is that u shed3 >*thinks* it was a delaying tactic by the Taliban, ,   Yup.  Thanks, Bill :-).e   <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.W   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 14 Nov 01 10:23:18 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comuN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <9stnli$fu6$3@bob.news.rcn.net>e  - In article <3BF1EA2A.A91458@cableinet.co.uk>,d7    Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:t >  >e >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >> M0 >> In article <87d72nbu1d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,3 >>    Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:-0 >> >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> >G >> >> Do I believe that discussion and evidence would have obtained thePH >> >> Taliban's consent?  Not necessarily (and of course now we'll neverJ >> >> know for sure) - but making the effort *would* have allowed us to beF >> >> perceived as having attempted to go about things properly ratherH >> >> than as a global bully who can all the more easily be perceived as; >> >> having in some ways deserved the sucker punch we got.o >> >H >> >The Taliban offered to deliver OBL to a 3rd muslim country for trialE >> >if reasonable evidence was presented to them. The shrub turned it  >> >down flat. >> > >> That was a delaying tactic. >i@ >you mean until they could scrounge up some reasonable evidence? >  > A Nope.  For some reason, the Taliban or somebody seems to need the  winter.i   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:40:02 +0100-= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org( Message-ID: <3BF26622.D53BBBD@dummy.com>   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:) > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.t     Ah !! Just figured out what that ment !o	 Clever...    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:06:32 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>rN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF26C57.3E3D4CDF@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:oE >> greatly that one of the last guided missiles fired at Kabul as theaG > Northern Alliance entered scored a direct hit on the Arabic satellitee  J This is an obvious one. CNN struck a deal with the US military so that itsJ competitor's offices would magically get destroyed so that when CNN walked@ into Kabul, they could claim to be the only western media there.  E What I found most interesting is that CNN started its trek across the J difficult mountain pass days before and arrived just in time. So they mustK have known in advance when the northern alliance was going to strike Kabul.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:16:44 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>aN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF26EBB.B2C35E69@videotron.ca>   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:C > Nope.  For some reason, the Taliban or somebody seems to need thei	 > winter.n  N If the USA is smart, and if their spy satellites are really smart, winter will point big arrows to Bin Laden.  I Any truck bringing supplies to Mr Bin Laden will leave tracks in the snowi< which will magically end at the entrance to the tunnel/cave.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 14 Nov 01 11:48:44 GMT' From: jmfbahciv@aol.com N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <9stsln$1sk$4@bob.news.rcn.net>a  ( In article <3BF26622.D53BBBD@dummy.com>,A    Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com> wrote:- >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: * >> Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. >s >u >Ah !d" >Just figured out what that ment !
 >Clever...  : I took me some heavy-duty thinking.  What really surprised2 me was that kids aren't getting taught this stuff.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:59:41 +0000,% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>oN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <tov4vt422jskgmj68hbtoelpusdtg10jqr@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:06:32 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a   >Alan Greig wrote:F >>> greatly that one of the last guided missiles fired at Kabul as theH >> Northern Alliance entered scored a direct hit on the Arabic satellite >iK >This is an obvious one. CNN struck a deal with the US military so that itsaK >competitor's offices would magically get destroyed so that when CNN walkedeA >into Kabul, they could claim to be the only western media there.d  E Luckily the strike did not take the BBC off-air although Al Jazeera'siE equipment was totally destroyed. Al Jazeera was offered facilities bye, CNN honouring their co-operation agreement..  F >What I found most interesting is that CNN started its trek across theK >difficult mountain pass days before and arrived just in time. So they mustsL >have known in advance when the northern alliance was going to strike Kabul.  F  Also shown on BBC news were US and British special forces leading theF Northern Alliance advance and calling down airstrikes on Taleban tanks> defending Kabul. So the timing was under US/UK control despite suggestions to the contrary.  < But we are going off topic again (at least for those readingE c.o.v./info-vax) Maybe time for alt.sys.vms.chat but I'm not sure howeD many main stream servers honour random NNTP newgroup controls in alt> these days. Creating a  comp.os.vms.chat would be even harder.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:44:54 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF28366.9040102@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  B  > Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message ' news:3BF1EA2A.A91458@cableinet.co.uk...(  >    >  >>e  >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >>aA  >>> In article <87d72nbu1d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi4#  >>> <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:   >>>2  >>>> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  >>>>a  >>>>m;  >>>>> Do I believe that discussion and evidence would havep?  >>>>> obtained the Taliban's consent?  Not necessarily (and ofr=  >>>>> course now we'll never know for sure) - but making the ?  >>>>> effort *would* have allowed us to be perceived as havinge=  >>>>> attempted to go about things properly rather than as atF  >>>>> global bully who can all the more easily be perceived as having6  >>>>>  in some ways deserved the sucker punch we got.  >>>>>D  >>>> The Taliban offered to deliver OBL to a 3rd muslim country for>  >>>>  trial if reasonable evidence was presented to them. The   >>>> shrub turned it down flat.  >>>>r  >>>>o   >>> That was a delaying tactic.  >>>C  >> you mean until they could scrounge up some reasonable evidence?e  >>e  >E  > Excellent rejoinder.  But kidding aside, what Barb likely means is C  > that she *thinks* it was a delaying tactic by the Taliban, sinceAF  > anyone sufficiently acquainted with their inner councils to know itC  >  for a fact would also know where Bin Laden is and could quickly.D  > put an end to at least the current stage of this affair.  And, as?  > with other aspects of negotiation, Dubya's approach has made)<  > certain that we'll likely never know for sure either way.  >E  > Of course, allowing the Taliban to succeed in any such delay could B  > have been disasterous:  who knows how long Bin Laden might haveD  > remained on the loose with as much as a week or so of extra time?D  > Oh, wait:  he's still on the loose anyway, and there was adequateC  > time for discussion during the period that our forces were being @  > moved into position without losing an extra minute of time...  >C  > A lot of actions, both in the corporate and in the international C  > arena, seem to make sense as long as you don't examine them very F  > closely.  And such examination is so tedious for people who have noA  >  personal interest in the issues - it's far easier just to let 2  > leaders think for you and adopt their opinions.  H Ah, yes!  Bill has managed to go off topic once more, and to one of his E favorite topics.  Some of this has led me to suspect that he's still  G upset about the FLorida vote count, and it probably interfers with his   getting a good night's sleep.   F Keeping in the spirit of things, I thought I would come back with the H flip side of this topic.  The 'cowboy' in me insists that I point out a B few things.  There a rather large smoking hole at the tip of Long C Island.  Quite a few people also are having trouble sleeping these 2F nights, disparing over the loss of a spouse/child/parent/sibling/etc. C Then there's the innovative usage of the US postal service for the nG distribution of Anthrax.  (While this may not be Bin Laden, it appears iB to be in support of his actions, or using his actions as a cover.)  E I think my feelings, and the feelings of many people in the USA, are iG summed up rather nicely by one of the better lines from the movie 'Top aG Gun', shortly after having a coffee bath for the second time.  "I WANT r
 SOME ASS!"  H Now Bill may try to clain that possibly there isn't sufficient evidence H to implicate Bin Laden.  Well, his statements about America not knowing G peace are to me enough justification to eradicate the SOB.  As for the bF Taliban, their sentiments appear to be the same, and therefore so are D mine.  Just their treatment of women should be enough for a 'truly' E civilized world to go after them, instead of lazily sitting back and mH claiming that different cultures should be allowed to live as they wish.  D Hmmm.....  I guess that prior to 1861 the 'culture' in the southern E United States should have been allowed to flourish?  Statements like aH "they're only blacks, not really human" too easily become "they're only > women, not really human" really aren't so different, are they?  F So now Bill's once again driven me well over the edge.  Getting to be F familiar territory for me.  Just want to say that I think that the US G government is doing a great job.  Not rushing in and taking a bunch of tH US casualties just to show they're 'doing something'.  Plinking targets I of opportunity as they present themselves seems a much better idea.  And MG fighting one battle at a time does seem prudent.  George is saying the  E right things, and I for one hope that when Afganistan is settled, he QE sticks with his word and starts on the next most deserving location.  K Possibly the biggest problem will be determining the most deserving entity.E   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:46:52 -0700A+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>YN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org( Message-ID: <3BF291EC.E8947FE9@mmaz.com>   JF Mezei wrote:/   > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:E > > Nope.  For some reason, the Taliban or somebody seems to need the  > > winter.: > P > If the USA is smart, and if their spy satellites are really smart, winter will  > point big arrows to Bin Laden. >MK > Any truck bringing supplies to Mr Bin Laden will leave tracks in the snoww> > which will magically end at the entrance to the tunnel/cave.    No to mention thermal markers...   BarryL   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO0  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028S   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 16:40:07 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org% Message-ID: <9su6p7$gur@web.nmti.com>   - In article <87d72nbu1d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, . Paul Repacholi  <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:. > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:E > > Do I believe that discussion and evidence would have obtained the F > > Taliban's consent?  Not necessarily (and of course now we'll neverH > > know for sure) - but making the effort *would* have allowed us to beD > > perceived as having attempted to go about things properly ratherF > > than as a global bully who can all the more easily be perceived as9 > > having in some ways deserved the sucker punch we got.o  F > The Taliban offered to deliver OBL to a 3rd muslim country for trialC > if reasonable evidence was presented to them. The shrub turned ite > down flat.  L Apparently, Clinton had already tried that after the embassy bombings. WhileJ I am not happy with the way Bush has been running this, it's reasonable to: assume that he knew they already had the evidence in hand.   -- 3+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.bE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."mL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:00:14 -0500n* From: Trent Worthington <fuckoff@none.nul>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <4m85vt8d3pitflamqp1ikr3ptqoo48dsti@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:55:04 GMT, Tim Llewellynt& <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:   >a >h >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:k >> a0 >> In article <87d72nbu1d.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,3 >>    Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:N0 >> >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> >G >> >> Do I believe that discussion and evidence would have obtained thetH >> >> Taliban's consent?  Not necessarily (and of course now we'll neverJ >> >> know for sure) - but making the effort *would* have allowed us to beF >> >> perceived as having attempted to go about things properly ratherH >> >> than as a global bully who can all the more easily be perceived as; >> >> having in some ways deserved the sucker punch we got.o >> >H >> >The Taliban offered to deliver OBL to a 3rd muslim country for trialE >> >if reasonable evidence was presented to them. The shrub turned it  >> >down flat. >> > >> That was a delaying tactic. > @ >you mean until they could scrounge up some reasonable evidence?#                            ^^^^^^^^i$ ITYM fabricate. He's guilty alright:  G http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/11/14/inv.britain.proof/index.htmlg   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 17:01:13 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org% Message-ID: <9su80p$jkl@web.nmti.com>i  8 In article <%XZH7.5860$o16.314471@typhoon2.gnilink.net>,% Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:-N > Bingo - by your own admission this was a subjective business decision.  ToddM > keeps spinning his subjective opinion as fact when what we are dealing withmL > is a debate about a business judgement - a judgement call by definition is > subjective...o  9 It's not Bill who tossed the ball in the technical court.r  G It's a business decision that is being justified in technical terms. If.E Compaq is going to do that, then they need to support their technical:K argument. If it was based on non-technical issues, then they should explaine what *they* were.i  J I am personally unimpressed by IA64, and found Digital's 1999 paper pretty: convincing. If that's suddenly wrong, I'd like to see why.   -- >+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.uE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."eL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 17:55:06 GMT3 From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach)mN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org) Message-ID: <9sub5q$s00$2@news.panix.com>g  , In article <3BF26EBB.B2C35E69@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:sD >> Nope.  For some reason, the Taliban or somebody seems to need the
 >> winter. > O >If the USA is smart, and if their spy satellites are really smart, winter will- >point big arrows to Bin Laden.  > J >Any truck bringing supplies to Mr Bin Laden will leave tracks in the snow= >which will magically end at the entrance to the tunnel/cave.e  H What makes you think anyone in the caves will need to have supplies sent in over the winter?a -- e@ Beware of the Turing Tar-pit in which everything is possible but nothing of interest is easy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:16:28 +0000l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>:, Subject: Re: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP8 Message-ID: <fcd4vtoluqpsd7o7si8q4qolgfuv2pjlbn@4ax.com>  ! On Fri, 09 Nov 2001 12:40:55 GMT,w@ Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) wrote:   > D >I know I've been here before on other topics, but this really looksF >like a small number of man months of work.  I'm having trouble seeing( >what the technical concerns would be...  A Is that a hint?  I'll give Marcello a call and ask him to get thee contract drawn up ;-)r  0 Seriously it would be nice to have this feature.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:22:16 +0000a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>c, Subject: Re: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP8 Message-ID: <1md4vtgur0g0bic5jrchmcq0947dreu67a@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:15:55 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:-   >Matt Muggeridge wrote:a >> e >> Duly noted and acted upon.  >>  M >> As with all product requests which involve decisions to invest in one areaIO >> at the expense of others, there is nothing like having identifiable customer50 >> demand to help the concept get over the line. >aM >And there is nothing like a vendor who takes leadership, takes ideas that itoM >sees as having value to further develop their products and implement it.  By M >the time customer's begging for a feature reaches Compaq, it means that suchr* >features have been implemented elsewhere.  E But the problem is that VMS engineering isn't sufficiently staffed tooB really move forward with 'nice-to-have' ideas any more. Maybe this will change under IBM,,,  M >Leading the pack is better IMHO. Did customers beg for clustering or did theeL >VMS engineers see the potential for this idea and implement it, only to see* >customers really like the idea later on ?   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:36:22 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) , Subject: Re: Transparent RMS access to TCPIP/ Message-ID: <3bf240fa.6070208@news.demon.co.uk>t  D Sorry, no, that wasn't the point of my reply.  While we do freelance@ work, and are obviously always on the lookout for more, I didn't" really see this as an opportunity.  E I'm just surprised from time to time by the things that are describedaE as 'hard'.  When faced with an example that just doesn't look 'hard',oB I end up suspecting that there is more behind it.  In this case, IF suspected that this request didn't have enough preceived need to drive it getting developed.e  F At one level that's fine.  The nature of this business involves makingD product tradeoffs.  I don't have any problem with engineering groupsA doing so.  However, by describing it instead as hard the bar gets D artificially raised.  Consequently, pushback from the user communityD (who may have a much different view of the need) tends to get muted.* That seems to me to lead to bad decisions.  D One of the other replies to this thread now makes me believe that itC is viewed as a simple feature tradeoff.  So, if you need it, go getw its priority fixed.l   Jim.  C On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:16:28 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  wrote:  " >On Fri, 09 Nov 2001 12:40:55 GMT,A >Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) wrote:a >i >>E >>I know I've been here before on other topics, but this really looks G >>like a small number of man months of work.  I'm having trouble seeing1) >>what the technical concerns would be...i >nB >Is that a hint?  I'll give Marcello a call and ask him to get the >contract drawn up ;-) >-1 >Seriously it would be nice to have this feature.  >W >--4 >Alan0   Jim Johnson0 Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address):   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:44:23 +1100>/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> H Subject: Re: Using INETACP_FUNC$C_GETHOSTBYNAME using fortran- examples?0 Message-ID: <xipI7.473$2Z5.26689@ozemail.com.au>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message $ news:3BF1FCBD.90503@tsoft-inc.com... > John Gemignani, Jr. wrote: >uI >  > Why are you asking the ACP for this information?  You are better offm/ >  >  calling the DECC function to do the work.  >  >
 >  > -John >o >r. > Only if you can get yourself to work in 'C'. >  >t? >  > "Jamie Stallwood" <jamie@project76.co.uk> wrote in messagem4 > news:cta3vt88o4qklv44mr1fn84adori2ldrul@4ax.com... >  > >s >  >A >  >> If anybody has any examples in FORTRAN of using the INETACPa> >  >> functions with QIO in FORTRAN, I would receive them most< >  >> gratefully! Especially if they use the function above! >  >>  >  >> Thanks Jamie P Stallwood >SE > Been way too many years since I did Fortran.  I've implemented somerH > socket communications in Basic using the system service interface.  IfG > you feel that you can benefit from some of this, I can send you some.i >tI > Note that it can get rather interesting, and I found at least one placeiI > where the manual had things backwards.  IO$_SETMODE and IO$_SETMODE are-2 do we have to parse one of these as io$_sensemode?J > both usable for the same action.  One requires privs, the other doesn't.H >   The damn manual had them backwards, at least the 'old' manual that IH > bought.  It appears that the 'new' manual, (must have come out the dayD > after I bought one) only mentions the one that doesn't need privs. >. > Dave, still learning.> >m > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486 >    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:23 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)oH Subject: Re: Using INETACP_FUNC$C_GETHOSTBYNAME using fortran- examples?- Message-ID: <14NOV200112232026@gerg.tamu.edu>a  , David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes... }John Gemignani, Jr. wrote:h } H } > Why are you asking the ACP for this information?  You are better off. } >  calling the DECC function to do the work. } > 	 } > -Johnd } - }Only if you can get yourself to work in 'C'.l  ? This is VMS. You can call the DECC functions from any language.n   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:30:35 +0000u( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS Crash) Message-ID: <3BF247CB.D86F23C5@127.0.0.1>    John Santos wrote: > ' > On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Nic Clews wrote:t >  > > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:y > > >f > > > @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN > > >r > > > Why "crasch" the system ?a > >u4 > > Yes, and use REMOVE_NODE option too in clusters. > >aG > > (Why it's not the default in a cluster environment I'll never know)e > D > MSCP-served disks:  you might want to reboot an MSCP-serving node,@ > and if you use REMOVE_NODE, IIRC it does a dismount/cluster onD > the disks it is serving.  If other nodes currently have files openB > on the disks, this spells trouble.  If you would rather have theB > disks go into mount-verify until the node comes back up (usually? > much less disruptive), you don't want to use REMOVE_NODE.  If 8 > REMOVE_NODE were the default, you would need to have a! > "NOREMOVE_NODE" to override it.n  E This is a new one on me. I'm pretty certain that in a (more than two)aD node cluster I'd have noticed that behaviour. A system can only MSCPG serve disks that it has some physical path to, which, one would expect,iG another system also has a physical path to, if they are required in therG cluster when this system goes down. (And another system would also MSCP E serve that disk). What you've said doesn't actually make sense to me,i! but I'm prepared to be corrected.h  G (I should add it is possible to introduce unwanted behaviour by wrongly > configuring your cluster. In such a case I can understand your
 concerns.)  B A CLUSTER shutdown does something slightly different, where servedG devices remain available to remaining members of the cluster until theye finally close down.t  A The reason for REMOVE_NODE is that this triggers a bit of code inlE OPCCRASH which does a quorum adjust and graceful handover of anythingl: distributed. I posted a slice of the code here a bit back.   -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:02:12 -0000i* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: VMS Crash+ Message-ID: <9stivm$taa@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>a  Y "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:3BF247CB.D86F23C5@127.0.0.1...   F > > MSCP-served disks:  you might want to reboot an MSCP-serving node,B > > and if you use REMOVE_NODE, IIRC it does a dismount/cluster onF > > the disks it is serving.  If other nodes currently have files open& > > on the disks, this spells trouble.  G > This is a new one on me. I'm pretty certain that in a (more than two)tF > node cluster I'd have noticed that behaviour. A system can only MSCPI > serve disks that it has some physical path to, which, one would expect,aI > another system also has a physical path to, if they are required in theaI > cluster when this system goes down. (And another system would also MSCPcG > serve that disk). What you've said doesn't actually make sense to me,i# > but I'm prepared to be corrected.   J That's not the problem case: it doesn't do a cluster dismount for multiplyL served disks. The tricky case is when you are rebooting a single host serverH without doing a full cluster reboot. Then having the disks go MV brieflyF may be preferable to having them all Mount/Dismount, which practicallyE often needs a reboot to recover from - but  you are not 'supposed' toe$ use remove_node  for a quick reboot.  3 $if .not. cluster_member .or. .not. remove_node_f - * .or. .not. f$getdvi(dev,"served_device") -0 .or. (f$getdvi(dev,"host_name") .nes. lclnode) -- .or. (f$getdvi(dev,"alt_host_name") .nes. "")n $thens $cldmt = ""d $else  $cldmt = " /Cluster"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:56:07 +0000l( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS Crash) Message-ID: <3BF25BD7.6019E304@127.0.0.1>2   Richard Brodie wrote:n > [ > "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:3BF247CB.D86F23C5@127.0.0.1...c > ...-L > That's not the problem case: it doesn't do a cluster dismount for multiplyN > served disks. The tricky case is when you are rebooting a single host serverJ > without doing a full cluster reboot. Then having the disks go MV brieflyH > may be preferable to having them all Mount/Dismount, which practicallyG > often needs a reboot to recover from - but  you are not 'supposed' toa& > use remove_node  for a quick reboot. > 5 > $if .not. cluster_member .or. .not. remove_node_f -e, > .or. .not. f$getdvi(dev,"served_device") -2 > .or. (f$getdvi(dev,"host_name") .nes. lclnode) -/ > .or. (f$getdvi(dev,"alt_host_name") .nes. "")s > $thenh
 > $cldmt = ""l > $else  > $cldmt = " /Cluster"  F Yes I see this, thank you for pointing it out. You would also NOT want@ the quorum adjust, because you're likely to lose quorum, and the1 remaining systems hang until this one comes back.1  E The footnote for the documentation for REMOVE_NODE is as I understandT it, correct.H "... all locally attached disks are dismounted clusterwide." And it goesF on to mention the problems you and John mentioned. It is not a clusterH configuration I'd recommend, but it is possible, and as such, yet again, I find I still learn about VMS.   F *An error in the documentation* for this, stating that "...REMOVE_NODEG will not decrease the EXPECTED_VOTES below the quorum value." because IrH know this does happen and OPCCRASH is responsible for it. Maybe it's why I ignored it in the past.*  H (* Note, a version or two of VMS this does not work for, but 7.1 and 7.2! and 7.3 this definitely happens).n -- t( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:06:10 -0800u* From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: VMS Crash) Message-ID: <3BF29672.5EA0062D@yahoo.com>p   $ mcr opccrash   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t   > @SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN >  > Why "crasch" the system ?h >s > Jan-Erik Sderholm.s >a > JH wrote:s > >t4 > > I have an Alpha cluster running OpenVMS 7.1-1H2.H > > Does anybody know a way to crash the system with a soft command , soJ > > that from the remaining cluster member the system is no longer visible > > ?. > >  > > Thx, > >- > > JH   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:07:50 +0100 2 From: Berger Harald <hotline@harryworld.dydns.org>9 Subject: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPI8 Message-ID: <5sj4vt8uhc017j1gnvatf6peihrcrdc0r7@4ax.com>  = I hope someone can help me by the following (stupid) problem.4  D Situation: A VAX-Cluster, running VMS 6.2. Node (A) is a VAX-Station6 	   Model 4000-90A, Node (B) is a VAX-Station 3100-M767 	   A litte programm with creates sequential files runsR 	   on Node (A).- 	   (This litte Programm is OK, it runs everyd 	   day since 2 years)    > The Error: When creating the files local on Node (A) -> all OK? 	   When creating the files on node (B), single Disk, -> all OKo> 	   When creating the files on node (B), shadow set (2 Disks),> 	    -> following error will occour when i make a type xxx.txt  * %TYPE-W-READERR, error reading xxxxx.TXT;1B -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 222  6 	    -> on 3 other files i got the following message:	  - %TYPE-F-WRITEERR, error writing SYS$OUTPUT:.;L- -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failedo) -SYSTEM-F-EXQUOTA, process quota exceededh  4 	    All Disks, the single Disk and the 2 disks from- 	    the Shadow-Set are from the same Type ->r' 	    IBM DDRS.34560, 4 GB, Narrow-SCSI.   - 	    No errors on the Machine - "anal /error"e+ 	    No error when doing a "Anal /Disk ..."/! 	    Nothing in the Operator Log.f  ? 	    You can copy or backup the file, no error. Ive also tried 4 	    to make a dump /header of the files -> also ok.  / 	    A type or edit of the files are impossibleo- 	    (Filesize is between 180 and 500 blocks)$   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:17:03 +0100t= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>w= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPe) Message-ID: <3BF252AF.D3C80CD7@dummy.com>   7 What does a DIR/FULL say about both the OK file and thee one you can't read ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:29:59 +0100l2 From: Berger Harald <hotline@harryworld.dydns.org>= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPh8 Message-ID: <r8l4vt0sakeurgra0c8pl85dqgcjqvlk0b@4ax.com>  ? the first one is a "good" file, the second dir is a "bad" file:*  
 ----------    ; EXP_ANLSPU.TXT;1              File ID:  (154,3,0)          a8 Size:           31/36         Owner:    [PROGRAM,BERGER]" Created:   14-NOV-2001 06:35:45.99& Revised:   14-NOV-2001 06:50:00.27 (1) Expires:   <None specified>b Backup:    <No backup recorded>  Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified>i File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online -E File attributes:    Allocation: 36, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0n$                     No version limitB Record format:      Variable length, maximum 150 bytes, longest 52 bytes 4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: NoneC File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWED, World:RWEDp Access Cntrl List:  None     -------------------------------     ; EXP_ART.TXT;1                 File ID:  (149,2,0)           8 Size:          375/378        Owner:    [PROGRAM,BERGER]" Created:   14-NOV-2001 06:35:45.42& Revised:   14-NOV-2001 06:50:00.04 (1) Expires:   <None specified>a Backup:    <No backup recorded>n Effective: <None specified>t Recording: <None specified>  File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online eF File attributes:    Allocation: 378, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0$                     No version limitC Record format:      Variable length, maximum 350 bytes, longest 143e bytesr4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: NoneC File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWED, World:RWEDt Access Cntrl List:  None            6 On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:17:03 +0100, Jan-Erik Sderholm <noone@dummy.com> wrote:  8 >What does a DIR/FULL say about both the OK file and the >one you can't read ?  >  >Jan-Erik Sderholmu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:36:43 +0100h2 From: Berger Harald <hotline@harryworld.dydns.org>= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP-8 Message-ID: <fil4vtcqkklu19ot1kqh4t3r7hfkmlt7oi@4ax.com>  > here are the files from the single disk... they are all ok !!!      ; EXP_ANLSPU.TXT;1              File ID:  (9989,24,0)        o8 Size:           31/36         Owner:    [PROGRAM,BERGER]" Created:   14-NOV-2001 12:32:33.49& Revised:   14-NOV-2001 12:32:33.66 (1) Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>h Effective: <None specified>s Recording: <None specified>e File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online oE File attributes:    Allocation: 36, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0i$                     No version limitB Record format:      Variable length, maximum 150 bytes, longest 52 bytesr4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None> File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWE, World: Access Cntrl List:  None      ; EXP_ART.TXT;1                 File ID:  (10077,9,0)        t8 Size:          375/378        Owner:    [PROGRAM,BERGER]" Created:   14-NOV-2001 12:32:33.74& Revised:   14-NOV-2001 12:32:34.37 (1) Expires:   <None specified>t Backup:    <No backup recorded>p Effective: <None specified>o Recording: <None specified>e File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  F File attributes:    Allocation: 378, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0$                     No version limitC Record format:      Variable length, maximum 350 bytes, longest 143d bytes.4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None> File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWE, World: Access Cntrl List:  None    C the "funny" thing is that the fist file is ok on both disks.... then$ second file (EXP_ART.TXT)  not. ....D I first thought that the Problem is the file size, but 375 Block ???    6 On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:17:03 +0100, Jan-Erik Sderholm <noone@dummy.com> wrote:  8 >What does a DIR/FULL say about both the OK file and the >one you can't read ?i >l >Jan-Erik Sderholmr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:07:07 +0100v= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>y= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPm) Message-ID: <3BF25E6B.9D843342@dummy.com>t  < Hm, sorry but personaly I can't see anything from your DIR's" that may causing this. I'm lost...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   Berger Harald wrote: > @ > here are the files from the single disk... they are all ok !!! >  [DIR's excluded...]d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:20:26 +0100O2 From: Berger Harald <hotline@harryworld.dydns.org>= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPn8 Message-ID: <58o4vtkteeddn0vlmh0rsaii2g2d8ts6u2@4ax.com>  6 On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:07:07 +0100, Jan-Erik Sderholm <noone@dummy.com> wrote:  = >Hm, sorry but personaly I can't see anything from your DIR's'# >that may causing this. I'm lost...o >t >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >; >Berger Harald wrote:o >> eA >> here are the files from the single disk... they are all ok !!!t >> E >[DIR's excluded...]      5 thanks for your time..... i think the problem is that-< theres a Windows-PC near the VAX-Station, maybe to near ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:18:37 -0500_- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPe, Message-ID: <3BF26F2B.E7AE118F@videotron.ca>   re: problem with files:   6 have you tried backup/verify myfile.dat yourfile.dat ?  M Also, try type/tail of the file. It *should* work on a variable length recordoK file , but if there is anything screwy with it, it will fail with a messaget! such as unsupported organisation.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:25:19 -05004% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>s= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPh. Message-ID: <tv5a81fl1kr71@news.supernews.com>  K I could be mistaken but I don't thing shadowing is supported when using theo, DK driver.  You may have just found out why.  L I remember something about this in the release notes in the V6.X time frame.  ? "Berger Harald" <hotline@harryworld.dydns.org> wrote in message.2 news:5sj4vt8uhc017j1gnvatf6peihrcrdc0r7@4ax.com...? > I hope someone can help me by the following (stupid) problem.e >tF > Situation: A VAX-Cluster, running VMS 6.2. Node (A) is a VAX-Station7 >    Model 4000-90A, Node (B) is a VAX-Station 3100-M76a8 >    A litte programm with creates sequential files runs >    on Node (A).e. >    (This litte Programm is OK, it runs every >    day since 2 years)  >l >t@ > The Error: When creating the files local on Node (A) -> all OK@ >    When creating the files on node (B), single Disk, -> all OK? >    When creating the files on node (B), shadow set (2 Disks),>? >     -> following error will occour when i make a type xxx.txt0 > , > %TYPE-W-READERR, error reading xxxxx.TXT;1D > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 222 > 6 >     -> on 3 other files i got the following message: > / > %TYPE-F-WRITEERR, error writing SYS$OUTPUT:.;v/ > -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failedP+ > -SYSTEM-F-EXQUOTA, process quota exceededE >S5 >     All Disks, the single Disk and the 2 disks from1. >     the Shadow-Set are from the same Type ->( >     IBM DDRS.34560, 4 GB, Narrow-SCSI. >.. >     No errors on the Machine - "anal /error", >     No error when doing a "Anal /Disk ..."" >     Nothing in the Operator Log. >.@ >     You can copy or backup the file, no error. Ive also tried5 >     to make a dump /header of the files -> also ok.o >n0 >     A type or edit of the files are impossible. >     (Filesize is between 180 and 500 blocks) >  >m   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2001 18:34:20 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>o= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP 0 Message-ID: <9sudfc$71o@dispatch.concentric.net>   Did you: $ ANALYZE/RMS/FDL  filespecc $ TYPE  filename.FDL; * and see any VBN errors that would indicate* the file (header) is internally corrupted?  - Jim Strehlow, Data911 OpenVMS Systems Manager  Alameda, CAr    ? "Berger Harald" <hotline@harryworld.dydns.org> wrote in messagey2 news:5sj4vt8uhc017j1gnvatf6peihrcrdc0r7@4ax.com...? > I hope someone can help me by the following (stupid) problem.e >pF > Situation: A VAX-Cluster, running VMS 6.2. Node (A) is a VAX-Station7 >    Model 4000-90A, Node (B) is a VAX-Station 3100-M76 8 >    A litte programm with creates sequential files runs >    on Node (A). . >    (This litte Programm is OK, it runs every >    day since 2 years)  >o >r@ > The Error: When creating the files local on Node (A) -> all OK@ >    When creating the files on node (B), single Disk, -> all OK? >    When creating the files on node (B), shadow set (2 Disks),t? >     -> following error will occour when i make a type xxx.txtp > , > %TYPE-W-READERR, error reading xxxxx.TXT;1D > -RMS-F-IRC, illegal record encountered; VBN or record number = 222 >d6 >     -> on 3 other files i got the following message: > / > %TYPE-F-WRITEERR, error writing SYS$OUTPUT:.;d/ > -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failedb+ > -SYSTEM-F-EXQUOTA, process quota exceeded  >a5 >     All Disks, the single Disk and the 2 disks fromo. >     the Shadow-Set are from the same Type ->( >     IBM DDRS.34560, 4 GB, Narrow-SCSI. >b. >     No errors on the Machine - "anal /error", >     No error when doing a "Anal /Disk ..."" >     Nothing in the Operator Log. >w@ >     You can copy or backup the file, no error. Ive also tried5 >     to make a dump /header of the files -> also ok.  >-0 >     A type or edit of the files are impossible. >     (Filesize is between 180 and 500 blocks)   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2001 06:24:32 -0800# From: pmartyn@csc.com (Phil Martyn)S5 Subject: Web Connecting from an Alpha (using TCPWARE) = Message-ID: <23088ca1.0111140624.3c0e9f24@posting.google.com>4   Hello,D       here's a question concerning a concept which I can't quite get$ my head around. Maybe you can help ?E       We're running a VMS 7.2-1 Alpha cluster using TCPWARE V5.4-3 as @ the IP stack. A large data network is in place allowing InternetF access via routers/firewalls from desktop-based browsers. I now have aD requirement to transfer data from a 'secure' Internet-based web site; using approved software (which uses Java scipts I believe).eF       Excepting potential firewall constraints can somebody explain toC me how "I can connect to the Internet" from my Alpha server i.e. do = you use Telnet e.g. telnet www.process.com http or some other ; mechanism. Any help greatfully received. Thanks in advance.e   Phil Martyn.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:55:12 +0000u( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>9 Subject: Re: Web Connecting from an Alpha (using TCPWARE)v) Message-ID: <3BF285D0.CD9CEF69@127.0.0.1>e   Phil Martyn wrote: >   ( I've spoken to Phil, the answer was YES.  4 These VMS boxes in CSC keep coming out the woodwork! -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:28:39 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-9 Subject: Re: Web Connecting from an Alpha (using TCPWARE)$8 Message-ID: <jp25vtc1j2e5brt1hoijktcfauj7c8p954@4ax.com>  C On 14 Nov 2001 06:24:32 -0800, pmartyn@csc.com (Phil Martyn) wrote:a   >Hello, E >      here's a question concerning a concept which I can't quite getj% >my head around. Maybe you can help ?DF >      We're running a VMS 7.2-1 Alpha cluster using TCPWARE V5.4-3 asA >the IP stack. A large data network is in place allowing Internet0G >access via routers/firewalls from desktop-based browsers. I now have asE >requirement to transfer data from a 'secure' Internet-based web siteo< >using approved software (which uses Java scipts I believe).  D Not enough info really to tell here. As you mention JAVA I wonder ifB there could be a client side JAVA application. If so you should beF able to run this app directly on your VMS box in the same way it wouldE run on a PC.  If it's kicked off manually then it may be as simple as_% running a web browser on the VMS box._  E But really need some more details and there's security at your end to$ think about as well.  G >      Excepting potential firewall constraints can somebody explain to"D >me how "I can connect to the Internet" from my Alpha server i.e. do> >you use Telnet e.g. telnet www.process.com http or some other< >mechanism. Any help greatfully received. Thanks in advance. > 
 >Phil Martyn.e   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:35:54 +0010c' From: <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au>d) Subject: Re: What has Capellas achieved ?d5 Message-ID: <01KAPEZV7CC2000DBI@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    John Maclean wrote:s  ; >Michael Capellas was appointed Compaq CEO on 22 July 1999.  > F >"In the end, our choice was easy. In a field of excellent candidates,G >Michael was clearly superior," [Compaq Chairman] Rosen said. "He has a C >better understanding of where information technology is going thanwI >anyone else we talked with-inside or outside the company. He has a clearsG >vision for Compaq and the industry.... He understands our business and 5 >financial dynamics, and how to balance them properly  >to deliver results.  O My understanding (admittedly largely from what I read here) was that there was gL no "field of excellent candidates".  Wasn't he elevated from being a middle M level bean counter to a full blown bean counter since they found no-one else H as incompetent?   E >"The entire Board has never felt more confident of Compaq's future,"t >Rosen concluded.h >l, >(Quotes from inFORM magazine, Sep/Oct 1999)  I Just over 2 years later is BR still confident of Compaq's future.  Dead,  O deader, deadest -- dependent on which analyst or c.o.v pundit.  Reminiscing, a  L joke environment much like British Rail for those who share the same native 
 territory.  D >Now there are fewer than 30 days remaining of his 180-day effort toH >transform the company.  The switch into services went quiet even beforeI >the announced buyout plans by HP.  The HP deal now seems to be in dangeriG >of unravelling and if it does, Capellas may be out the door so perhapsV$ >we should look at how he has fared.  N Corporate were forced to outsource.  They took Digital as their contractors.  O This whole area fell apart (into abyssmal disarray) when Compaq took over this iG Digital service.  The contract renewal has not been placed with Compaq.   M Wasn't the 180 days just a hoax/blindfold?  What else has he left with which n  to try to transform the company?  H >***  What has Mike achieved for Compaq in the last 28 months and how do >you rate his performance ??  N For Compaq, you know the "sweet ..." expression.  For us, you know the "sweet I .." expression.  For himself, he will walk out with more money than I/we PO could dream of and he will live to do "sweet ..." (you know the expression) to tL another company and walk out with even more money.  Shades of Robert Palmer.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:28:10 GMTR8 From: "Steven Santinelli" <Santinelli@smscompNOSPAM.com>) Subject: Re: What has Capellas achieved ?i9 Message-ID: <KjuI7.338$wt.136065@news1.news.adelphia.net>    He can play a mean guitar...   I think, that's about it...e     Steve     3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in messagep$ news:3BF20B7E.51FC03EF@dplanet.ch... > < > Michael Capellas was appointed Compaq CEO on 22 July 1999. >-G > "In the end, our choice was easy. In a field of excellent candidates,iH > Michael was clearly superior," [Compaq Chairman] Rosen said. "He has aD > better understanding of where information technology is going thanJ > anyone else we talked with-inside or outside the company. He has a clearH > vision for Compaq and the industry.... He understands our business and6 > financial dynamics, and how to balance them properly >  to deliver results. >nF > "The entire Board has never felt more confident of Compaq's future," > Rosen concluded. >e- > (Quotes from inFORM magazine, Sep/Oct 1999)n >sE > Now there are fewer than 30 days remaining of his 180-day effort to_I > transform the company.  The switch into services went quiet even before1J > the announced buyout plans by HP.  The HP deal now seems to be in dangerH > of unravelling and if it does, Capellas may be out the door so perhaps% > we should look at how he has fared.: >oI > ***  What has Mike achieved for Compaq in the last 28 months and how dol > you rate his performance ??  >e >t
 > John McLeano   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:53:41 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m) Subject: Re: What has Capellas achieved ?d, Message-ID: <3BF27762.D6BCDBD7@videotron.ca>  H What has he achieved ? He decided to drop the Digital stuff and focus onL Wintel stuff. He did decide that it was time to add the word "enterprise" to# Compaq's marketing of wintel boxes.   H He realised that Compaq lacked imagination and innovation for its wintelH boxes, so he todl his staff to copy Apple, hence the Ipaq product lines. (which originally were PCs). :  5 The actual Ipaq handheld is perhaps his only success.o  K Other than that, Capellas is the the accountant they had to turn to because L none of the people that they had wanted at the helm had accepted job offers.  M If Pfeiffer had been allowed to remain there, how different would Compaq be ?r   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.634 ************************