1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 16 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 637       Contents:< RE: Alt group for VMS (was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of S Re: Clustering Textbook  Re: Clustering Textbook  Re: Clustering Textbook  Re: Clustering Textbook G Re: Compaq and OSDN Create Clustering Foundry for Open Source Community  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt? * DS20 Alpha Systems - VMS Newsgroup SpecialD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width Email Marketing Software# Re: errlog, decevent, CA, and WEBES " Re: error: to few servers detected  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.- I used to write code, but that's all over now  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ?? ' Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me? ( Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests( Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests Re: Items for sale! / Re: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2 5 Porting MANMAN (was Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.)  Re: Proxy Removal Problem. SCSI Questions for Alpha 2100 ! Re: SCSI Questions for Alpha 2100 3 Re: Secondary and/or Alternative OPCOM output setup 3 Re: Secondary and/or Alternative OPCOM output setup 7 Re: SHOCK, HORROR, VMS & TRU64 STAFF RUSHED TO HOSPITAL ' RE: Sources of class information needed ' Re: Sources of class information needed E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E RE: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org $ Re: usage of new products on vms axp? Re: Using INETACP_FUNC$C_GETHOSTBYNAME using fortran- examples? < Re: VMS debug image runs OK but nocheck, check version crash< Re: VMS debug image runs OK but nocheck, check version crash7 VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading ... ; Re: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading ... 4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP% Re: Welcome To Microsoft's IT Academy ) Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time? - Re: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time?  xp ads  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:47:04 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Alt group for VMS (was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of S - Message-ID: <0033000041708770000002L002*@MHS>   ( =0AGiven the netiquette of some posters,- alt.flame.vms might be more than appropriate.    (donning asbestos undies)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET * Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 12:57 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET/ Cc: mail2news@freedom.gmsociety.org at INTERNET E Subject: Alt group for VMS (was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shann     ; On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:    <snip>  = >But we are going off topic again (at least for those reading F >c.o.v./info-vax) Maybe time for alt.sys.vms.chat but I'm not sure howE >many main stream servers honour random NNTP newgroup controls in alt ? >these days. Creating a  comp.os.vms.chat would be even harder.  >  >--  >Alan   H This isn't the first time the suggestion has been made that a new group=  is H needed for VMS. As Alan notes, getting a new comp. group would be a lit= tle H difficult. All an alt group supposedly needs is discussion in the relev= ant H newsgroup(s) followed by a charter being drawn up and posted to alt.con= fig.F (This is assuming there is a broad base of support for the new group.)H After that most servers will honour the newgroup or you can petition yo= ur ISP to carry the group.      Doc. --6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.H ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb= net=   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:11:31 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Clustering Textbook@ Message-ID: <TjVI7.75792$Wa.4723306@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message # news:3BF3DD82.ED509647@yahoo.com... ) > This might be what you are looking for:  > 7 > http://www.aplawrence.com/Books/searchofclusters.html  > L > I haven't read it, but I understand it concludes that the "shared nothing" > model * > is to be preferred.  (Not the VMS model)  H In later conversations with the author I think I managed to convince himH differently.  IIRC, one driving force behind his conclusion had been theI need for disaster-tolerance coupled with the immaturity of Fibre Channel, D which meant that remote shared storage was less feasible than remote mirroring servers.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:42:31 -0800 * From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Clustering Textbook) Message-ID: <3BF428B6.9B62F0A5@yahoo.com>    Bill Todd wrote:  7 > James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message % > news:3BF3DD82.ED509647@yahoo.com... + > > This might be what you are looking for:  > > 9 > > http://www.aplawrence.com/Books/searchofclusters.html  > > N > > I haven't read it, but I understand it concludes that the "shared nothing"	 > > model , > > is to be preferred.  (Not the VMS model) > J > In later conversations with the author I think I managed to convince himJ > differently.  IIRC, one driving force behind his conclusion had been theK > need for disaster-tolerance coupled with the immaturity of Fibre Channel, F > which meant that remote shared storage was less feasible than remote > mirroring servers. >  > - bill  C Fascinating, did his changed views make it into the second edition?    Jim    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:37:32 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)   Subject: Re: Clustering Textbook0 Message-ID: <00A0517C.49A84CFF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <3BF428B6.9B62F0A5@yahoo.com>, James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes: >  >  >Bill Todd wrote:  > 8 >> James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message& >> news:3BF3DD82.ED509647@yahoo.com..., >> > This might be what you are looking for: >> >: >> > http://www.aplawrence.com/Books/searchofclusters.html >> >O >> > I haven't read it, but I understand it concludes that the "shared nothing" 
 >> > model- >> > is to be preferred.  (Not the VMS model)  >>K >> In later conversations with the author I think I managed to convince him K >> differently.  IIRC, one driving force behind his conclusion had been the L >> need for disaster-tolerance coupled with the immaturity of Fibre Channel,G >> which meant that remote shared storage was less feasible than remote  >> mirroring servers.  >>	 >> - bill  > D >Fascinating, did his changed views make it into the second edition? >  >Jim >  >   C Probably not.  Lord Gates would be displeased with him if he didn't 9 proselytize the virtues of the shared-nothing NT cluster.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:37:54 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Clustering Textbook@ Message-ID: <CdZI7.39430$jp.3039417@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  H Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A0517C.49A84CFF@SendSpamHere.ORG...: > In article <3BF428B6.9B62F0A5@yahoo.com>, James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:  > >  > >  > >Bill Todd wrote:  > > : > >> James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message( > >> news:3BF3DD82.ED509647@yahoo.com.... > >> > This might be what you are looking for: > >> >< > >> > http://www.aplawrence.com/Books/searchofclusters.html > >> >H > >> > I haven't read it, but I understand it concludes that the "shared nothing" > >> > model/ > >> > is to be preferred.  (Not the VMS model)  > >>I > >> In later conversations with the author I think I managed to convince  him I > >> differently.  IIRC, one driving force behind his conclusion had been  the E > >> need for disaster-tolerance coupled with the immaturity of Fibre  Channel,I > >> which meant that remote shared storage was less feasible than remote  > >> mirroring servers.  > >> > >> - bill  > > F > >Fascinating, did his changed views make it into the second edition? > >  > >Jim > >  > >  > E > Probably not.  Lord Gates would be displeased with him if he didn't ; > proselytize the virtues of the shared-nothing NT cluster.   : I doubt that:  Greg reports to Sir Lou, not the Dark Lord.  I But my discussion with him was after the second edition came out.  I hope H there'll be a third, but IIRC he's pretty busy these days riding herd on4 Infiniband and other storage-related things for IBM.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:42:25 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> P Subject: Re: Compaq and OSDN Create Clustering Foundry for Open Source Community* Message-ID: <3BF428B1.976C64DD@virgin.net>   Keith Parris wrote:   6 > AI think this is unlikely.  Both sourceforge.net andB > www.opensource.compaq.com say the technology for both the SingleH > System Image (SSI) for Linux and Cluster Infrastructure (CI) for LinuxG > projects comes from Compaq's NonStop Cluster for Unixware.  That came C > out of the Tandem clustering effort, not the Digital (TruCluster) 	 > effort.  >   W Yes but the magic bit is that the Tru64 cluster code was given by Compaq to its Nonstop U Cluster for Unixware Group a couple of years ago. After all Compaq owned both by that X point. Some of that code may then have been incorporated into the NonStop code by now asZ that was the intention. In any case the code open-sourced is intended to include the Tru64Y contributed code. Or so someone explained it to me. Whether it includes the rights to any ! later Tru64 code I do not know...    > H > I suspect the features listed on the PowerPoint slides look similar toG > those of TruClusters because they have similar goals, to meet similar A > customer needs, rather than because any Tru64 code is involved.  > D > If TruCluster code were in the public domain, I doubt Oracle would? > have paid big bucks to license TruCluster technology for RAC.  > D > If Compaq/HP end up doing to Tru64 what HP just did to HPE, then IF > think it would be much more likely to see TruCluster code show up in > Linux.E > ------------------------------------------------------------------- E > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | VMS consulting on: E > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Internals, Performance, Storage & I/O    --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:20:21 -0500 ; From: Robert DiRosario <robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov> & Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?- Message-ID: <3BF43FA5.8DB0C8B5@gsfc.nasa.gov>    > I can't get a chevron prompt> Simple, give it a hardware fault.  That will stop the autoboot0 and give you the chevron prompt and you can turn
 autoboot off.   7 You can unplug the mouse from the keyboard/mouse cable. < If that doesn't work open the system, unplug the power cable, from the disk drive and power up the system.   Robert   Bob Koehler wrote:  D >    My DEC 4000 300 workstation doesn't seem to have a halt button.C >    There's just any empty hole.  This is a pain because VMS isn't F >    properly tuned yet (taking hours to boot after I enabled DECnet VJ >    with only 32 MB RAM) and I can't get a chevron prompt to do a minimumJ >    system boot until it comes up and I shut it down (boot on power on is, >    enabled, I WILL turn that off tonight). > F >    Were these manufactured that way, or is this one just broke?  HowH >    hard can I expect it to be to find the contacts to solder on my own' >    (momentary contact switch, right)?  > D >    And what's that "Secure system" jumper next to the "ROM update"G >    jumper?  If I move it is there a keyboard combination that will do  >    a halt?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:38:28 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1511011938280001@user-2ive76c.dialup.mindspring.com>  > In article <3BF43FA5.8DB0C8B5@gsfc.nasa.gov>, Robert DiRosario+ <robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:     > > I can't get a chevron prompt@ > Simple, give it a hardware fault.  That will stop the autoboot2 > and give you the chevron prompt and you can turn > autoboot off.  > 9 > You can unplug the mouse from the keyboard/mouse cable. > > If that doesn't work open the system, unplug the power cable. > from the disk drive and power up the system. >  > Robert >  > Bob Koehler wrote: > F > >    My DEC 4000 300 workstation doesn't seem to have a halt button.  @ Does a DEC 4000 have a keyboard and mouse?  I thought this was a server-only configuration.  J Note:  I think Bob is talking about the DSSI alpha system (DEC 4000 300 --F was there a model 300?) not the turbochannel system (DEC 3000 400, forG example.)  My eyes scrambled the model number the first time I read the H message. I typed up a keenly irrelevant reply, which I discarded unsent.  M This model number stuff is almost as confusing to the eye as 7.1-2 and 7.2-1.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:22:19 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>& Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?, Message-ID: <3BF4785B.2060906@tsoft-inc.com>   Robert DiRosario wrote:    >>I can't get a chevron prompt >>@ > Simple, give it a hardware fault.  That will stop the autoboot2 > and give you the chevron prompt and you can turn > autoboot off.  > 9 > You can unplug the mouse from the keyboard/mouse cable. > > If that doesn't work open the system, unplug the power cable. > from the disk drive and power up the system. >  > Robert >  > Bob Koehler wrote: >  > D >>   My DEC 4000 300 workstation doesn't seem to have a halt button.C >>   There's just any empty hole.  This is a pain because VMS isn't F >>   properly tuned yet (taking hours to boot after I enabled DECnet VJ >>   with only 32 MB RAM) and I can't get a chevron prompt to do a minimumJ >>   system boot until it comes up and I shut it down (boot on power on is, >>   enabled, I WILL turn that off tonight). >>F >>   Were these manufactured that way, or is this one just broke?  HowH >>   hard can I expect it to be to find the contacts to solder on my own' >>   (momentary contact switch, right)?  >>D >>   And what's that "Secure system" jumper next to the "ROM update"G >>   jumper?  If I move it is there a keyboard combination that will do  >>   a halt? >> >   I Don't know specifically about this model, but most VAX and Alpha systems  B will interupt the OS and present the console prompt upon either a E <break> or a ^P.  Not having the default boot device available works 3? also, as mentioned above, if the keyboard command doesn't work.s   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:45:50 -0500g0 From: "Island Computers" <dbturner@islandco.com>3 Subject: DS20 Alpha Systems - VMS Newsgroup Specialm/ Message-ID: <tv8uv0no4hrj67@news.supernews.com>    In stock in Quantity   DS20 6/500 Systems
 1GB Memory# QLA1040B Ultra Wide SCSI Controllert0 DS-RZ1CB-VW 4GB Ultra Wide SCSI Disk in Canister& RRD47 32x SCSI CDROM and 1.44MB Floppy  3DLabs VX1 Oxygen 32MB PCI Video LK46W-A2 VMS Style KeyboardM 3 Button Mouse OpenVMS Base License   Total Price $5495d) Systems carry 1 Year Warranty from Islande  . Perfect for Universities with License Program.         -- David Turner   We sell Alpha systems & parts  http://www.islandco.com, sales@islandco.com Island Computers US Corp.v 2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404v Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0096w   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2001 14:11:32 -0500- From: Rich Alderson <alderson+news@panix.com>rM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width . Message-ID: <mddzo5n4zob.fsf@panix2.panix.com>  ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:t  J > I am fairly certain that the PASCAL implementation was callable from anyJ > other TOPS-20 HLL including DEC's own. So you just called the PASCAL RTLM > COMND interface routines from FORTRAN. You had to go an grab Rutgers PascalcB > first though and DEC should have done a better job here I agree.  N Actually, the Pascal and Fortran stack regimens differed in such a way that weO could not use Pascal with System 1022 at Chicago or Stanford, which was a graveI disappointment to me.o   --  N Rich Alderson                                          alderson+news@panix.comL   "You get what anybody gets.  You get a lifetime."  --Death, of the Endless   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:25:24 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>nM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthp* Message-ID: <3BF424B4.C499D5B7@virgin.net>   Rich Alderson wrote:  ) > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:i >IL > > I am fairly certain that the PASCAL implementation was callable from anyL > > other TOPS-20 HLL including DEC's own. So you just called the PASCAL RTLO > > COMND interface routines from FORTRAN. You had to go an grab Rutgers Pascal D > > first though and DEC should have done a better job here I agree. >oP > Actually, the Pascal and Fortran stack regimens differed in such a way that weQ > could not use Pascal with System 1022 at Chicago or Stanford, which was a gravec > disappointment to me.e >M  J That rings a bell but I think that Chuck Hedrick fixed this and provided aP compilation option to use Fortran style calls. Not sure if he backported this toO TOPS-10 but I'm fairly confident it was in the native TOPS-20 S-Pascal (Systems N Pascal - Pascal with systems programming extensions) Yep EXTERN FORTRAN sounds	 familiar.T   >t > --P > Rich Alderson                                          alderson+news@panix.comN >   "You get what anybody gets.  You get a lifetime."  --Death, of the Endless   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:48:59o/ From: "Advertisement" <crabgrass@flashmail.com>S! Subject: Email Marketing Softwarem9 Message-ID: <iss.27e6.3bf4545f.1992e.1@mx2.east.saic.com>   = We have the #1 selling bulk email software in 58 countries.  -= With our software, you can harvest your own customized email r< addresses, automatically sort it out, and launch a powerful 6 marketing campaign by enabling your PC into a virtual  email server.  r  ; You no longer have to be a computer genius to accomplish a -8 successful email campaign, nor spending thousands for a 9 mail server or a commercial Internet pipeline.  With our n; software, you will be able to send out an average of 5,000 v4 to 8,000 emails per hour on a 56K modem connection.   < Why pay for email lists or email services when you can do it	 yourself!   = If you'd like to try our free demo software, please reply to  : this message, and we will send you downloading information promptly.  Thank you.e    > ==============================================================4 Your email address was obtained from an opt-in list 8 Reference # 10023387.  If you feel you've received this 2 message in error or do not wish to receive future 2 communications from ESC via e-mail, please accept 5 our sincere apologies. To discontinue future e-mails m5 please reply back to this message and simply type in n4 the subject line UNSUBSCRIBE followed by the address; that you wish to have removed from our list.  We honor All   Remove requests.  2 If you have previously unsubscribed and are still 8 receiving this message, you may email our Abuse Control 0 Center at abusecontrol@nospam.ws, or Call us at   1-888-763-2497, or write us at: 1 NoSpam.ws, 177A Old South Path, Melville NY 11747r> ==============================================================   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Nov 2001 20:50:55 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>/, Subject: Re: errlog, decevent, CA, and WEBES0 Message-ID: <9t19rf$sbi@dispatch.concentric.net>  2 Thank you for your honest and concurring opinions.  * I get the feeling that management believes  - newer always means better  - everyone wants GUI.  > No. I just want to get my work done as accurately as possible.+ Give me the tools and diagnostics to do so.c  - Jim Strehlow, Data911 OpenVMS Systems Manager  Alameda, CAh   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:48:46 -0500 0 From: Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@compaq.com>+ Subject: Re: error: to few servers detectede* Message-ID: <3BF4464E.1355C08E@compaq.com>   Martin Nemet wrote:  > - > I get the following error every 10 minutes:T > > > Event: Too Few Servers Detected drom: Node LOCAL:.MSBT DTSS, >        at: ..... >        Number Detected=0 >        Number Required=1 >        ... > 7 > My system is a VAXstation 3100, VMS 7-2, DECnet-Plus.m > I installed VMS 2 hours ago. >t > Can anyone give me a hint? >h	 > Thanks.o >n > M.  L The default for DECnet DTSS (and DCE DTS) is 3 time servers on the network. M The message you're seeing indicates that you have less than the default.  YounJ can either add additional time servers, or modify the default to a smallerO number - ideally, a number less than or equal to what you actually have on yourhL network.  Try the following NCL command to set the number of servers to one:  ! 	NCL> set dtss servers_required 1s  O It should be noted, however, that the default is 3 for a reason.  With multipleeI servers, DTSS is better able to converge the system times to a reasonablenK value, and able to smooth out different "opinions" of what time it actually.L is.  The technical explanation behind this is much more complex, and I won'tM attempt to go into it here.  The DECnet DTSS documentation should have a goods	 overview.j   	Wayne Morrison  	Compaq Computer Corp.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:40:23 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.v@ Message-ID: <HSUI7.36159$jp.2717988@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:15NOV200111322057@gerg.tamu.edu... 3 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...> > }Keith Parris wrote:I > }> Most likely this announcement was intended to make HP look better onl > }> Wall Street.  > }mH > }I cannot understand why corporations have this idea that they will be rewardedJ > }by Wall Street if they cancell their most profitable products in favour of0 > }their more popular but money losing products. > % > Because a lot of people are stupid.a  F Possibly, but those people may be investors rather than brokers or the
 corporations.h  I There seems to be at least some reason to believe that Wall Street *does*VK reward such behavior.  It could be because Wall Street is purely focused onoJ short-term profitability (and cutting R&D certainly helps that even if itsD longer-term consequences are disasterous).  If you're operating in aI sufficiently large universe of companies, then you can maximize profit bycK taking advantage of the brief up-swings of some subset and moving on to the1J next subset before the disaster occurs, and thus reap much greater overallF return than you would in a universe where all companies were graduallyL improving their worth at a constant rate - even if the *average* stock price4 growth was far greater in such a stable environment.  L Of course, the average investor does not churn his/her portfolio at anythingC like a sufficient rate to take advantage of such a strategy, nor myoL impression is do most mutual funds.  So when such investors pay attention toG the Street's short-term evaluations they get burned (and the short-termr& investors do even better as a result).  K But since I'm not a market hobbyist, I could easily be missing a lot in thee  above:  it's just my impression.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:50:17 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.n* Message-ID: <3BF42A88.59C13CD0@virgin.net>   Rob Young wrote:  G > In        So.. maybe Alan can comment.  Does MANMAN take advantage ofsN >         VMS in a big way?  i.e. uses its DLM, After Image Journalling, etc.? >  >   S MANMAN on VMS is fully cluster aware and uses Oracle Codasyl DBMS and RDB (formerlylV DEC...) as its underlying database. It also uses RMS indexed files and understands VMS5 batch and print system.  It's written in DEC Fortran.m  T Mixed architecture VAX/Alpha clusters are also supported and even transparent DECNETU access to databases on other nodes. Database journaling features are fully supported..    It's a really VMS aware product!   > If so... no easy port at all.2 >2M >         MANMAN may be taking advantage of the strengths of MPE and VMS. . .NF >         i.e. their native filesystems.  The Unix answer of course isG >         "we don't need no stinking filesystem features... why we havelG >         all the tools you need to build what you need..."  And so thehL >         mindset of least common denominator coding comes into play (unlessJ >         of course you port it to Oracle as a backend and skip/substitute? >         native filesystem features.  Get out your paychecks!)t >DE >         Gotta love clashing paradigms!  Doesn't get any better thanh >         that!o >w% >                                 Robs   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:06:13 -0000m3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>h) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.n. Message-ID: <9t1b07$d9u$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message$ news:3BF42A88.59C13CD0@virgin.net... >e >h > Rob Young wrote: > I > > In        So.. maybe Alan can comment.  Does MANMAN take advantage ofPJ > >         VMS in a big way?  i.e. uses its DLM, After Image Journalling, etc.?g > >  > >e >iK > MANMAN on VMS is fully cluster aware and uses Oracle Codasyl DBMS and RDB 	 (formerlylH > DEC...) as its underlying database. It also uses RMS indexed files and understands VMSe7 > batch and print system.  It's written in DEC Fortran.u >oC > Mixed architecture VAX/Alpha clusters are also supported and evenh transparent DECNETL > access to databases on other nodes. Database journaling features are fully
 supported. >-" > It's a really VMS aware product! > K Most of the VMS specific stuff is in 'library' functions. Of course, for ane easy port you'd need to H sacrifice some of the functionality you get on a superior OS like VMS ;)  I Take batch mode for instance. When you start a command in MANMAN, you areoJ offered a selection of output options. A batch aware program offers 'BATCH JOB OUTPUT'5G (AFAICR) as an option. This asks for queue, &c, takes your input to thed command, writes I it all to a temporary command file, then calls SYS$SNDJBC. All of this isu
 taken care of L in a couple of MANMAN library call. Becuse the VMS specific bit used is in a
 library, thenmL it only needs to be ported once, and all commands which are batch aware will be able to use it.  J It uses some RMS indexed files. That could be a problem, but I believe you can get RMS librariesmH for Unix that cover most of the basic functionality. Whether they're any good or not, I don't know...  J Or they could reinvent the wheel with respect to indexed files, like every other Unix program...   ( The big problem is DBMS (see other post)   -Malcolm MacArthur   > -- > Alan Greig >h >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:50:37 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.n@ Message-ID: <xpZI7.39677$jp.3066876@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < Malcolm <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message( news:9t1b07$d9u$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...   ...a  L > It uses some RMS indexed files. That could be a problem, but I believe you > can get RMS librariesmJ > for Unix that cover most of the basic functionality. Whether they're any > good or not, I don't know...  I Dredging around in the bottom of the 20-year-old memory barral, ISTR thatFK MPE has a multi-key ISAM facility called KSAM which offers at least many of.K the same features that RMS does.  My impression is that Unix ISAMs are moreeD typically single-key, but  a) I have no idea whether MANMAN requiresJ multiple keys and  b) one can kludge them up from single-key variants when
 necessary.   >cL > Or they could reinvent the wheel with respect to indexed files, like every > other Unix program...  >t* > The big problem is DBMS (see other post)  J Why?  IIRC DMBS-32 is a CODASYL-compliant implementation, so unless MANMANK requires some vendor-specific features (and if so, how does the MPE versionv; handle this?) any similar DBMS should make a port feasible.   L And similarly, unless MANMAN uses special RDB features (and if so, again howD does it work on MPE?) any old SQL-compliant RDBMS should work there.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 03:50:55 GMTw  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official. + Message-ID: <3BF48D25.F85A56A2@prodigy.net>D   Carl Perkins wrote:n > 3 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...h > }Keith Parris wrote:I > }> Most likely this announcement was intended to make HP look better on  > }> Wall Street.g > } Q > }I cannot understand why corporations have this idea that they will be rewardedvM > }by Wall Street if they cancell their most profitable products in favour oft0 > }their more popular but money losing products. > % > Because a lot of people are stupid.t > P > }I cannot understand why Wall Street would push companies to embrace MicrosoftK > }products when they know that those products are not profitable, and thate >  > See above. > . > }Microsoft itself isn't actually profitable.  > }(has MS declared dividends ?) > I > You are mistaken. Microsoft is *hugely* profitable - its overall profitpH > margin, after everything, is about 25% (some $6.4 billion in profit inH > the last 4 quarters reported - they also have over $36 billion in cash1 > accumulated by being profitable and zero debt).o  I If your figures are correct, that means they're making about 19% on their E cash.  During much of the past year, they could have made 6% or so by G putting that cash in Treasuries, and more had they put it in corporate eG bonds.  So by your numbers about a third of their "huge" profitability j2 has nothing to do with currently selling software.  I Now consider how much of the rest of what they claim as profit is due to   their investments in others.   > There aren't very manyL > companies that make that much profit, or have that high of a profit marginI > (GE outdoes them by a factor of 2 in quantity, but have a profit margin L > that is less than half Microsoft's and under a quarter as much cash layingH > around and, for some reason that is unclear to me, considerable debt).E > Dividends have nothing to do with it. Some companies pay them, some F > don't - it has nothing to do with profitablilty (other than that youE > can't pay them for too long if you don't make at least some money).c > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 01:09:44 -0500 / From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@crosslink.net>e) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.i= Message-ID: <gurman-09D206.01094416112001@news.crosslink.net>   G In article <15NOV200111322057@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl t Perkins) wrote:l  3 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes...n [snip]I > You are mistaken. Microsoft is *hugely* profitable - its overall profit H > margin, after everything, is about 25% (some $6.4 billion in profit inH > the last 4 quarters reported - they also have over $36 billion in cashH > accumulated by being profitable and zero debt). There aren't very manyF > companies that make that much profit, or have that high of a profit  > marginI > (GE outdoes them by a factor of 2 in quantity, but have a profit marginaF > that is less than half Microsoft's and under a quarter as much cash  > layingH > around and, for some reason that is unclear to me, considerable debt).E > Dividends have nothing to do with it. Some companies pay them, some.F > don't - it has nothing to do with profitablilty (other than that youE > can't pay them for too long if you don't make at least some money).l  G     Wall Street likes good financials, but only in stocks it thinks it sH ought to like anyway. Take Apple: similar profit margin to Microsoft's, I $4B in cash, fanatically loyal customer base.... but analysts don't know cH what to do with a niche product. My guess is that's how HP and Compaq's D brilliant execs see anything but Intel servers and desktop PC's ---  commodities.                     Joe Gurman   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:58:33 -0500g2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>6 Subject: I used to write code, but that's all over now3 Message-ID: <J6VI7.1638$RL6.53067@news.cpqcorp.net>l  - I used to write code, but that's all over nowh   -- by the Coding Stonesh  4 Well, babe I use to write my programs all night long  % Made me cry, when the thing ran wrongy  - Could hardly keep my eyes open, that's no liel  ) But now the program's engineered from XMI   5 Because I used to write code, but that's all over nowD  6 You know I used to write code, but that's all over now  & Used to call find methods from my JSPs  / Subclass some exceptions for my high class EJBsg  ! Got no EJBHome got no old doPosts   , Roaming Studio says all my old code is toast  3 Cause I used to write code, but that's all over nowR  4 You know I used to write code, but it's all over now  8 Used to wake 'the morning, drive to work and use my head  . Now I use Sygel, WakeSoft, an' AltoWeb instead  7 Don't save that code in Perforce, nothin' needs to staym  % Only took me 10 minutes with OptimalJa  3 Because I used to write code, but it's all over nowi  6 You know I used to write code, but that's all over now          * http://www.javaskyline.com/usedtocode.html  - I used to write code, but that's all over nowi   -- by the Coding Stonesa  4 Well, babe I use to write my programs all night long  % Made me cry, when the thing ran wrongF  - Could hardly keep my eyes open, that's no liet  ) But now the program's engineered from XMI   5 Because I used to write code, but that's all over nowu  6 You know I used to write code, but that's all over now  & Used to call find methods from my JSPs  / Subclass some exceptions for my high class EJBs,  ! Got no EJBHome got no old doPostsa  , Roaming Studio says all my old code is toast  3 Cause I used to write code, but that's all over now   4 You know I used to write code, but it's all over now  8 Used to wake 'the morning, drive to work and use my head  . Now I use Sygel, WakeSoft, an' AltoWeb instead  7 Don't save that code in Perforce, nothin' needs to stay   % Only took me 10 minutes with OptimalJn  3 Because I used to write code, but it's all over nowa  6 You know I used to write code, but that's all over now          * http://www.javaskyline.com/usedtocode.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:33:24 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??, Message-ID: <3BF41883.23D09015@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:@ > Wasn't IBM one of the companies licensed to make Alpha chips??  K Contracting IBM to make you a bunch of chips for which you provide specs ismI quite different than licensing IBM to make those chips and sell/use them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:48:53 GMT1* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??@ Message-ID: <F_UI7.36266$jp.2725524@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BF399DA.83FA0BB3@videotron.ca...K > With both Compaq and HP having announced their unconditional surrender tofF > Intel, will there be any serious "enterprise" vendors that will sell HammerI > based systems, or will Hammer be relegated to the home computing marketo (eg:: > high end 3d graphics with live rendering etc for games).  L Compaq and HP will be in the same position as Microsoft:  if Hammer lives upI to anything close to its promise, then it'll be a killer Linux server andiH server-appliance platform, and if those three don't provide something to> compete with effectively in that space they'll be left behind.   >dE > Will IBM try to regain NT onto Power, or will it become a Microsofto9 > competitor, pushing Linux on Power against NT on IA64 ?e  L If NT runs on Hammer, there may be little to be gained from supporting it onI a higher-end platform.  And if it doesn't, then that may well be a prettyNG good indication that trying to compete with Intel's NT platforms is nots likely to succeed.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 03:34:29 GMT   From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??+ Message-ID: <3BF48950.30CDA388@prodigy.net>    Duane Sand wrote:- <snip>A > The Itanium instruction set architecture is chock full of Intelj< > patents and HP patents (handed over to Intel).  One of the> > main goals Intel gave itself in designing this complex thing: > is that it be impossible for anyone to legally produce a= > compatible chip without violating Intel-controlled patents.w? > There is no way that Intel will ever license this instruction A > set to others.  They will never repeat the mistake of licensingl6 > AMD, as they did for the 8086 back when IBM required: > a relatively smaller Intel to license a second source as > factory insurance. >  <snip>  L IMHO, if that is the case, then the industry should thumb its nose at Intel.    No sole source should be a goal.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:18:33 -0500,- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??, Message-ID: <3BF4A1A3.6168521E@videotron.ca>  
 cjt wrote:N > IMHO, if that is the case, then the industry should thumb its nose at Intel. > " > No sole source should be a goal.  K Yeah.  Interesting that having more than one source of Alpha processors was H extremely important for Digital, but Intel, due to its monopoly positionO doesn't need to be bothered with multiple sourcing of its architectues anymore.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:47:06 -0500e From: <ed.vogel@compaq.com>n0 Subject: Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me?3 Message-ID: <fRVI7.1640$RL6.53095@news.cpqcorp.net>d  8 "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote in message% news:sbf383d9.063@AAASMTA.aaas.org...t
 $ CC /VERSIONh& DEC C V5.7-004 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1  H     The current version of Compaq C is V6.4A.  V5.7 is about three years old.<     You should probably start with upgrading the C compiler.  /                                        Ed Vogele;                                        Compaq C Engineeringi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 03:38:42 GMT,  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>1 Subject: Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server testsi+ Message-ID: <3BF48A4D.3875A774@prodigy.net>e  
 Milton wrote:  > . > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:46:57 -0500, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:p >  > >Milton wrote: > >>\ > >> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011114/tc/itanium_flunking_compaq_server_tests_1.html > >>J > >> Intel's Itanium processor is failing to pass Compaq Computer's stressE > >> tests, according to a Compaq representative, thus holding up thei) > >> release of Compaq's Itanium servers.y > >a > >Does that surprise anyone ? > G > But shouldn't these flaws have been exposed thru the rigorous testingc% > already done over the past 2 years?  > G > "Compaqs ISSG engineers began putting prototype Blazer boxes throughaA > the Meatgrinder test suite nearly two years ago and testing haso> > continued unabated during an extensive IPF shakedown cruise.* > http://www.tru64.org/skc/IPFSpecial.html  K That says something about its complexity, and the likelihood of ever being  ) assured it's fully specified, doesn't it?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 03:52:50 GMTe  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>1 Subject: Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server testsg+ Message-ID: <3BF48D9B.85871969@prodigy.net>l   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:l > >  > > Milton wrote:O > > >L] > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011114/tc/itanium_flunking_compaq_server_tests_1.htmlA > > >hK > > > Intel's Itanium processor is failing to pass Compaq Computer's stresseF > > > tests, according to a Compaq representative, thus holding up the* > > > release of Compaq's Itanium servers. > >aO > > Does that surprise anyone ? Besides, Itanium won't power any serious CompaqtD > > systems until 2004-2005 so current bugs/problems are irrelevant. > I > the surprising thing (:-)) to me is that Compaq could come out smelling- > better than thee9 > vendors who are marketting before they test adequately.0  I In the Windows market?  Does anybody expect thorough testing?  Would theyi notice?m >  > -- > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  > D > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of# > my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:05:28 GMTc" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> Subject: Re: Items for sale!+ Message-ID: <3BF4AD31.71EC2F79@cumulus.com>f  
 MikeWJ wrote:  > E > I have these items to sell.  If interested, please call me, Mike atoH > 314-552-8666 or Dave at 314-552-8506.  Serious inquiries only, please. >  > Looking to sell: > ) >  24 VT terminals (VT220, VT320, VT420),a" >  31 VT keyboards (LK201, LK401), >   3 Remote Console Switches, >   3 Decserver 200/MC,M >   1 Decserver 250, >   9 LA75 printers, >   1 LA424 Printer, >   1 LP29 printer,t >   1 LG02 printer,t >   1 LG31 printer,s >   1 LPS20 printer, >   1 LPS32 printer, >   1 LN06 (Declaser 2200),t >   2 VXT2000 Desktop units, >   1 VXT1000 Desktop unit,s$ >   1 StorageWorks 800 media cabinetD >     (HSD50 controller, 4 BA350 shelves, (28) 2-GB HD's, (2) TL7L's! >      & (1) TLZ9 4mm tape units)r% >   2 VAX 4505a's (each has 2 RF72's)n' >   1 Microvax 3300 w/HD extension box.h) >      Other miscellaneous VAX equipment.- > H > May have another 3300 in the parts bin.  If so, will add to this list. >   @ Hey, are you in the U.S. and how much do you want for the VTs???   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:26:48 +0100s& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>8 Subject: Re: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2$ Message-ID: <3BF43318.41C6@c-lab.de>   Enrico Badella wrote:a > I > Thanks for the replies... I have again some time to play with my toy...r >  > "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:e > >mH > > The driver is loaded since the UCB was created.  The driver ran thruK > > it's initialization code and this did not succeed thus the driver nevero > > flipped the online bit.e > R > Is there some way I can have a deeper look in what is happening with the driver? >   B If you come from a UNIX world, I can assure you that disassemblingA drivers in VMS is MUCH harder than I thought. No symbol names ands such...      > > Michael Joosten wrote:L > > > Wouldn't a -handle DE305-AA instead be sufficient, i.e. without addingK > > > the record in SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT ? This seems to have thes' > > > same driver entry SYS$CONFIG.DAT.u > F > Good question! I guess so... but doing so I learned how to use TECO! > @ Well, that's a reason... Lazy me rather went the 'serial' way...     > [snip] > F > > > I'm not sure if that really means that the driver is loaded, butL > > > inactive (offline). Did you try to configure TCP/IP by filling out the/ > > > forms of @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG.COM ??e@ > > > Perhaps the driver has different iobase and IRQ hardwired? > D > Hmmm any way to see if it is really hardwired... other than trying > all possible configs?  > L > > > I tried to put an Intel EtherExpress Pro/100 into a PC164 board, whichM > > > was identified by autoconfig, (driver started, device visible) but then-> > > > TCPIP did not start. The drivers seem to be quite picky. >   E Yesterday I just tried to force the Pro/100 EIA0: driver UCB's statusBD flag to online. Unfortunately, the driver's init code did apparentlyE leave the card in an undefined mode, so re-starting TCPIP gave a nicen	 bugcheck. G The card is 'half' identified, but as it is an original Intel card, itso3 serial EEPROM apparently lacks the DEC 'blessings'.   G > But that is a PC164, much nicer MOBO. Hmmmm sound like I'll just havemF > to remain with my VAXstation 3100 if I want to network... sigh.. 8-( > K > > > What worked quite well is an old Tulip chip-based PCI card from Zynx,u4 > > > ZX312. These are probably also dirt-cheap now. > > >4K > > > Another choice might be Lance-based (AM7990) card, like a NE1500/2100rE > > > clone. I have some, and there is a SRM script called add_de205:e >  > Interested in swapping some?  @ Forget this one. The DE20X use the LEMAC chip, which seems to beC different to the Lance chip. Perhaps a later LANCE variant, I don't A know. Even *BSD have different drivers for them. Sorry, no cigar.   D Checked it also with an ancient NE2000 (with a real NS DP8390!), butA here again, the driver seems to require PnP in order to probe andh initialize the card correctly.  F Unfortunately, I just had an old WD8013 card in my bin, but perhaps atC work there might be PnP version of a NE2000. I'll try that the next  days.y     -- y* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:40:31 -0000a3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> > Subject: Porting MANMAN (was Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.). Message-ID: <9t19ft$cbj$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:wiPxg$CpTEmv@eisner.encompasserve.org...r: > In article <3BF3F4C7.C3321593@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: > > Alan Greig wrote:B > >o >  > >tK > > So, unfortunately, rather than HP MANMAN users moving to VMS MANMAN, itH > > seems a lot7J > > more likely that MANMAN will be ported to Solaris, AIX, or even Linux. > > That's what IN& > > would do if MANMAN was my product. > >< >e > Yep.  But... >o? > No more than you port DSM to Solaris or AIX.  You don't.  Youn> > create a new Mumps that's kinda sorta like DSM but lacks the@ > goodness DSM customers come to expect.... and call it ISM.  ItA > doesn't support "true" clustering, etc. but who needs that!?!!!hE > Why you just stick in a failover box... yeah ... that's the ticket!o > = > So.. maybe Alan can comment.  Does MANMAN take advantage of F > VMS in a big way?  i.e. uses its DLM, After Image Journalling, etc.? >h  K From what i've seen of the source code, most of it is written to use MANMANaE specific library calls for most functions. MANMAN consists of several, hundredaD commands (which are a mixture of standalone executables and commandsD compiled into the MANMAN command dispatcher). With a few exceptions, commandsL use only MANMAN library calls. OS-specific calls are pretty rare, apart from the use 1 of callable SORT. The source language is FORTRAN.,   Two problems are: K     - It uses DBMS for all its data applications. Every single command usesl DBMS READY,fJ FETCH, MODIFY, COMMIT, etc. Changing this to use another database would be
 quite a task.OI A good programmer might be able to munge READY, FETCH, &c. functions that  could replicateeK _most_ of the features of DBMS; more complex statements would require extras code to do theH things that couldn't be emulated (Don't know much about DBMS, so I can't really cite an example).I This could speed up any porting effort, but would be unlikely to speed up  the database access ;)  H     - Some commands use DECforms. Again, proprietary. No doubt there are other portable forms packages that could be used.  K AIJ and suchlike is taken care of by DBMS. Lot of logical names - you could  use environmenta variables for that.d  C Hmmm. Our licence allows us to modify the source code. I suppose it  therefore allows us toJ port it to a different architecture. Might have a problem getting licenses from CA for it once' it was ported ;-)t  G I have been told that the MPE variety is radically different in certain  ways, such as its securityI setup, and its operation is quite different. Don't have any experience oft the MPE version.= Anyone care to comment on the portability of the MPE version?t   > If so... no easy port at all.lC Not easy. Possible, but it would take a team of programmers months. ) Biggest problem is what to do about DBMS.a   > E > MANMAN may be taking advantage of the strengths of MPE and VMS. . .o> > i.e. their native filesystems.  The Unix answer of course is? > "we don't need no stinking filesystem features... why we havee? > all the tools you need to build what you need..."  And so theeD > mindset of least common denominator coding comes into play (unlessB > of course you port it to Oracle as a backend and skip/substitute7 > native filesystem features.  Get out your paychecks!)p  K I think the MPE version uses MPE's own built-in database engine, whose namey escapes me. = Same portability problem as the VMS version have with DBMS...M  C Crossposted to comp.sys.hp.mpe (apologies to the non-MANMAN users).w   -Malcolm MacArthur (MANMAN systems administrator)   >a= > Gotta love clashing paradigms!  Doesn't get any better than  > that!s >B > Robo >o >B   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:55:38 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)l# Subject: Re: Proxy Removal Problem.e1 Message-ID: <3bf45231.594548385@news.wcc.govt.nz>o   Tim,  5 Thanks, that well may be the approach I have to take.,@ Luckily it's a small Development Cluster with not too many Proxy	 Accounts.a@ Schedule it in the things to do one day but not just now pile...   Paul,e  C There's no /default switch in remove/proxy. The DEFAULT is also thelE account that's being proxied to, not the default proxy, which is whats5 the /default switch is used for when adding a proxy.       Rob.1 On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:53:10 -0000, "Tim Jackson"i <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote:  C >When I had this problem (on V7.3) I ended up stopping the security G >server, deleting the NET*PROXY.DAT files, starting the security servereF >again and then using the AUTHORIZE CREATE/PROXY command to create newF >empty databases.  To ensure the new files were created in the clusterF >common system directory I had to make sure the NETPROXY and NET$PROXYD >logical names were defined and pointing to SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] (via3 >SYLOGICALS.COM) else the files would be created in  >SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE].l >v >HTHE >------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------sE >Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.comr >Air Systems Group >Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd. > 7 >"Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in messagea, >news:3bf2e5bb.501246524@news.wcc.govt.nz... >> Hi Folksl >>% >> Running VMS 7.2 & DECNet OSI 7.2-1e1 >> Ive got some old proxies I'm trying to delete.- >>> >> There's a couple of stubborn ones that I can't get trashed.: >> All troublesome Proxies are set to the DEFAULT Account. >> >> SoD >> >> UAF> show /prox *::userx> >>( >>  Default proxies are flagged with (D) >> >> NODE1::USERXs >>     DEFAULT >> >> NODE2::USERXn >>     DEFAULT >> >> But,c >> >> UAF> remove /prox *::userxm< >> %UAF-E-NAFREMERR, error removing proxy from *::userx to *D >> -SECSRV-E-NOSUCHPROXY, no proxy record matches your specification >> >> or5 >>! >> UAF> remove /prox NODE1::USERXrG >> %UAF-E-NAFREMERR, error removing proxy from LOCAL:.NODE1::USERX to *jD >> -SECSRV-E-NOSUCHPROXY, no proxy record matches your specification >>I >> I know that when a User is removed the associated Proxies get removed.tI >> But I don't want to (and according to the help in Authorize you can't), >> remove the DEFAULT Account.@ >> The USERX Account has already been removed from this machine. >>G >> I've also tried adding a new proxy of the same spec, it adds it withsE >> the LOCAL. Prefix. When I then delete this it just deletes the onem >> with the LOCAL. Prefix. >> >> Any help appreciated. >> >> TIA.p >> >> Rob.i >l >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:03:32 -0500o- From: GSV00001 <GSV00001@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu>e& Subject: SCSI Questions for Alpha 2100" Message-ID: <4975627@MVB.SAIC.COM>  F I have a VAX system that has an external scsi dual 8mm tape drive box.I The box has the 50 pin centronics connectors.  I also have been told thatoC this system is going to be retired way much sooner than I expected.oK Like next week!  Computer services wants to make room for more Sun systems!e  F I need to connect this drive box to an Alpha 2100 system.  My concernsE are with the 2100's scsi card.  I have no idea what kind it is except E that it has an external HD50 connector.  The devices I currently have-F on this system: DKA0, DKA100, DKA200, DKA300, DKA600, DVA0 and MKA500.6 Four disk drives, one tape drive and one floppy drive.  C Will this scsi card support more devices?  If not, can I remove the C internal tape drive (TZK11) and still be able to use the other tapeaF drives?  I don't use MKA500 so it's no problem in removing it.  I haveC a 50HD-50CN cable and I should be able to use the terminator that'stB already on the drive box.  The 2100 is using VMS 7.1 which is also on the VAX system.  E Will this work or do I need to do something else?  I have very littledE expericence in working with scsi devices so I need all the help I can 
 get.  TIA,   Jonathan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:26:41 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-* Subject: Re: SCSI Questions for Alpha 2100; Message-ID: <01KAQWMDSF5Y90YLDV@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>:  H > I have a VAX system that has an external scsi dual 8mm tape drive box.F > The box has the 50 pin centronics connectors.  I also have been toldJ > that this system is going to be retired way much sooner than I expected.D > Like next week!  Computer services wants to make room for more Sun > systems!    2 I'm sure this has happened to other folks as well.  H > I need to connect this drive box to an Alpha 2100 system.  My concernsG > are with the 2100's scsi card.  I have no idea what kind it is except J > that it has an external HD50 connector.  The devices I currently have onJ > this system: DKA0, DKA100, DKA200, DKA300, DKA600, DVA0 and MKA500. Four4 > disk drives, one tape drive and one floppy drive.   D I don't see any problem.  As long as you have the proper cables, it F should work.  Of course, the 8mm-tape drive is probably SCSI-1 (slow, D narrow, 5 MB/s) and the 2100 might be, say, fast, narrow SCSI-2 (10 F MB/s) or whatever.  None of the S's in SCSI is "standard", but if the H things adhere to the standard, you 8-mm drive should be able to talk to H the 2100 at the tape drive's (probably slower) speed, but other, faster > devices on the 2100 should be able to talk to the 2100 faster.  - > Will this scsi card support more devices?  y  ! It will support 7, or perhaps 15.u  E Note that the DVA0 (the floppy-disk drive) is NOT a SCSI device, and wG hence irrelevant here.  So, your 8mm-tape drive can be your 7th device.2   Caveats:  F    o  you said "dual", thus it might be 2 extra devices, in which case'       you need to get rid of the others'  E    o  you have to make sure your TOTAL cable length (including cablesuF       inside the drives and boxes) is less than the maximum (which, I         think, is 3 m for SCSI-1).  H    o  You have to make sure that all the SCSI-IDs are unique.  Thus, setG       your 8-mm tape drive to 400 (and 500, if it has two devices, and oI       remove your present tape drive) and you should be OK (what does it          come up with on the VAX?).   > If not, can I remove theE > internal tape drive (TZK11) and still be able to use the other tapet > drives?  n  : Might not be necessary and keep the caveats above in mind.  A > I don't use MKA500 so it's no problem in removing it.  I have a-C > 50HD-50CN cable and I should be able to use the terminator that'sdG > already on the drive box.  The 2100 is using VMS 7.1 which is also on  > the VAX system.   G > Will this work or do I need to do something else?  I have very littletG > expericence in working with scsi devices so I need all the help I cann
 > get.  TIA, m   I think you should be OK.    Type    #   $ MC SYSMAN HELP IO AUTOCONFIGURE   F on your ALPHA and make sure you understand it first.  (Hint: this can I probably save you a reboot when connecting up devices.  I've also had no  E problems with powering down devices and powering them back up---once rH they are recognised, I could power them down and back up again.  I used D to use an 8-mm tape drive for nightly backups, but it was in a SCSI G expansion box with a loud fan, so I switched it on when leaving in the r2 evening and switched it off again in the morning.)   When trying things out, use      $  SHOW ERROR   D to make sure you are OK.  Bad termination, conflicting IDs etc will 
 cause errors..  E Your SCSI controller also has an ID---you can't use that for another rH device.  It is probably ID 7---that seems to be common on ALPHA; IIRC 6  was common on VAX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:55:21 -0000C3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>e< Subject: Re: Secondary and/or Alternative OPCOM output setup. Message-ID: <9t16qm$aq3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messager( news:3BF300D6.6F501E8C@pressenter.com...= > I have a need to set up an secondary console on some ES40s.  >s >eH > The first serial port (OPA0:) is connected to PCM. ANd that's well andG > good, but I'd also like be able to direct OPCOM messages to the tta0: G > port as well.. Nothing give this old-fashioned System Manager, a warm 4 > fuzzy feeling as seeing OPCOM messages on a VT420. > I > I know I can log in on the term, do a "reply/enable" and be good to go.sG > But sometimes I forget to do that, and messages are displayed. So I'mAC > working on somehow getting this to kick in automatically on boot.x >   $ DEFINE /USER SYS$COMMAND TTA0: $ REPLY /ENABLE[=(classes)]h   >0	 > Second:r >bI > On a PWS 500au, I'd like to set up a VT420 to the tta0 port and have itm@ > be the console, instead of the graphics device. But still haveI > DECwindows run properly.... It seems when I set the "console" serial, Ib9 > don't get graphics to start properly... I want both....7 >  > Any ideas?   Nope, not on that one.L http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6538/6538pro_005.html might help.J From what it says, all you have to do is run SYS$MANAGER:DECW$STARTUP.COM. But youd may have already tried that...  	 -Malcolm.    > Thanks in advance, >o > Lyndon > --I > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my  > employer.  >  >aJ > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:18:52 -0500a  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>< Subject: Re: Secondary and/or Alternative OPCOM output setup5 Message-ID: <1011115151437.5287A-100000@Ives.egh.com>Y  * On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Lyndon Bartels wrote:  = > I have a need to set up an secondary console on some ES40s.e >  > H > The first serial port (OPA0:) is connected to PCM. ANd that's well andG > good, but I'd also like be able to direct OPCOM messages to the tta0: G > port as well.. Nothing give this old-fashioned System Manager, a warmn4 > fuzzy feeling as seeing OPCOM messages on a VT420. > I > I know I can log in on the term, do a "reply/enable" and be good to go. G > But sometimes I forget to do that, and messages are displayed. So I'm C > working on somehow getting this to kick in automatically on boot.n  @ In systartup_vms.com (or something called from it), after you'veG set any necessary terminal characteristics for tta0: (speed, page size,,; device_type, etc. with $ set terminal/permanent), just add:i  "   $ assign/user tta0: sys$command:   $ reply/enable  	 > Second:h > I > On a PWS 500au, I'd like to set up a VT420 to the tta0 port and have it'@ > be the console, instead of the graphics device. But still haveI > DECwindows run properly.... It seems when I set the "console" serial, I,9 > don't get graphics to start properly... I want both....p >  > Any ideas?   Don't know this one.   > I > My apologies for the brevity of my messages... Have to run and do otheri > stuff too... >  >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Lyndon   --   John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:52:16 -0500 / From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@crosslink.net>r@ Subject: Re: SHOCK, HORROR, VMS & TRU64 STAFF RUSHED TO HOSPITAL= Message-ID: <gurman-86A444.00521616112001@news.crosslink.net>?  E In article <BZfC7.1130199$ai2.85851821@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, f6 "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@REMOVETHISossc.net> wrote:  4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:u1nitts50ha6ghincct8l9lm04aj2a4fpd@4ax.com...G > > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:02:12 +0200, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:e > > H > > I think the US ads are scheduled for Spring 2046 so at least we know% > > VMS will still be around then :-)b > K >     Do you know the station and time?  I really don't want to miss it, soe > I'llG >     write it on my calendar.  I also want to set my watch to beep 10 e
 >     minutese. >     before so that I'll be SURE to catch it. >  > >0J > > >It took experienced brain specialists several hours to restore normal; > > >Alpha wave activity in the brains of the poor victims.  > J >     Good thing they were experienced.  It could have taken a lot longer.K >     But amateurs would not have restored Alpha waves, just Itanium waves..  H     Don't sweat it. Your digital-imaging and video-viewing eye implants G and your personal cranial assistant will be plug-and-play. Too bad all aG that will be left by then will be running MicroSoft Windows 2047... so oI the whole thing will crash just before the VMS retrospective ad comes on v7 --- instead you'll have the blue visual field of death.                      Joe Gurman   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:23:14 -0500m* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>0 Subject: RE: Sources of class information needed- Message-ID: <0033000041697509000002L092*@MHS>    =0ATry www.mindiq.com.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt* Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 12:34 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET0 Subject: RE: Sources of class information needed     There info here:  ) http://www.compaq.com/training/cd-os.htmlf   Jimg   Lyndon Bartels wrote:   > > I have an opportunity to take some VMS management classes... >e: > THough I don't know of too many places that teach them.. >sF > If y'all can email me phone numbers/addresses, (or post them here as! > well) I'd really appreciate it.i > E > I'm interested in Performance tuning, Advanced Administration, etc.n >M > Thanks in advance, >p > Lyndon >a > --H > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of = my > employer.r >eH > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you do= n'td > have > to look at the horse's butt.=I   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2001 16:06:39 -08001 From: jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell)E0 Subject: Re: Sources of class information needed= Message-ID: <5c8ffd05.0111151606.76b90108@posting.google.com>   d Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message news:<3BF2FF69.2E4A37BF@pressenter.com>...? > I have an opportunity to take some VMS management classes... o > : > THough I don't know of too many places that teach them.. > F > If y'all can email me phone numbers/addresses, (or post them here as! > well) I'd really appreciate it.u > E > I'm interested in Performance tuning, Advanced Administration, etc.o >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Lyndon   www.PARSEC.com  ? A while back I contacted the few vendors there are and receivedrF proposals and references.  We decided to use PARSEC, they did not haveB the most professional documents, but the technical talk with theirC instructors impressed us.  Myself and several other people from ouri> department went for VMS management and application developmentF classes.  Everyone has come back impressed with the knoweldge of their( staff.  I would highly recommend them!!!   JMOD   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:16:40 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org@ Message-ID: <swUI7.35872$jp.2698123@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 Trent Worthington <fuckoff@none.nul> wrote in messagei2 news:uap7vtk10qm3scq8fodo2m46659o86h0j4@4ax.com...   ...   G > Did you even read the article, you hapless, retarded, bleeding-heart,o > Taliban apologist?:t  K Yes, I did, and unlike you I understood what it said (and what I said aboutu it).  @ Attitudes like yours help make terrorism understandable.  If itsD consequences were confined to those who hold such attitudes, while IL wouldn't approve of it any more than I approve of you I wouldn't consider it. any more of a problem than any other squabble.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:02:53 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF41F6B.1984F990@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > It does not match the story that I heard directly from him.  This wasn't aN > fishing expedition to kill Alpha.  As far as I know, it started by trying to1 > figure out how to get our Fab issues sorted out   I Note that Palmer was already acting on behalf of Pfeiffer at the time theoN "deal" with Intel had been struck. Pfeiffer admitted that he had been planningI the buying of Digital for about 3 years.  So for the 3 years prior to theyF announement of Compaq buying Digital, it is a safe bet that all of theN "cleanup" that was made by Palmer, including forcing Intel to buy the FAB planJ in exchange for leniency over Intel stealing Alpha IP would have been done3 with the knowledge/approval/suggestion of Pfeiffer.,  K Why did Palmer refuse to price Alpha competitively ? Why did Digital refuseYN fabbing contracts for 3rd party chips which would have made the FAB plant lessJ of a money loser ? If Palmer was so focused on PCs and Wintel, how come he0 spent so much money and time developping Alpha ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:19:02 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF42333.C65070AF@videotron.ca>   Trent Worthington wrote:. > HE ADMITTED IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!1    K Sorry, but admitting being involved in a crime doesn't make you guilty in a.N real court of law. Consider that the US justice system declared OJ not guilty B because of reasonable doubt, even though every one knew he did it.  F If the USA continues to refuse to reveal its evidence because it is soF secret/national security, then that evidence is moot since it won't beL presented in a court of law and without hard evidence, they will have to set Bin Laden free.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:07:34 -0500s# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>vN Subject: RE: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAOEKFDMAA.dallen@nist.gov>  J 	I suspect that's exactly why Bush is attempting to exercise his emergencyP 	powers - to get a military trial environment where the rules are WAY different.   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]+ > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 3:19 PMo > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComhB > Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at > www.tru64.org  >  >  > Trent Worthington wrote:0 > > HE ADMITTED IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!1 >  > M > Sorry, but admitting being involved in a crime doesn't make you guilty in aiP > real court of law. Consider that the US justice system declared OJ not guilty D > because of reasonable doubt, even though every one knew he did it. > H > If the USA continues to refuse to reveal its evidence because it is soH > secret/national security, then that evidence is moot since it won't beN > presented in a court of law and without hard evidence, they will have to set > Bin Laden free.b >    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2001 15:47:09 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)sN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <VLEVkct18YhW@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  \ In article <3BF42333.C65070AF@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Trent Worthington wrote:/ >> HE ADMITTED IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!1  >  > M > Sorry, but admitting being involved in a crime doesn't make you guilty in alP > real court of law. Consider that the US justice system declared OJ not guilty D > because of reasonable doubt, even though every one knew he did it. > H > If the USA continues to refuse to reveal its evidence because it is soH > secret/national security, then that evidence is moot since it won't beN > presented in a court of law and without hard evidence, they will have to set > Bin Laden free.o    E 	Large governments can pretty much do as they please.  Their behaviorsA 	of course isn't always defensible.  Take for instance... Russia.-A 	For some strange reason Stalin went about killing his own to the < 	tune of 20 million or so Russians, making World War II look 	like a walk in the park.   A 	Our government chooses at this time to keep secret what it knowse> 	about Bin Laden.  No problem.  It is most likely secret as itD 	would reveal methods.  Again, shortly after the *first* World Trade@ 	Center disaster at trial ->under strong government objection<- C 	the trial judge let the cat out of the bag on Bin Laden's recordedwC 	satellite phone conversations... Bamford alludes to details in hispB 	book "Body of Secrets" but other sources tell us it provided veryH 	strong evidence linking him to the bombing.  The goverment was correct E 	in its objections.  Shortly afterwards Bin Laden changed or ditched n# 	the satellite phones he was using.   > 	I suspect 50 years from now we will know the methods employedC 	(maybe sooner).  A number of the details of JFK are under lock and + 	key until 2014... numerous other examples.   ? 	When you go to war, you don't have a trial beforehand and THEN 9 	go to war.  Your argument above is weak, but what's new.g   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:13:25 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>dN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF43DFA.398E199F@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:L >         the trial judge let the cat out of the bag on Bin Laden's recorded* >         satellite phone conversations...  I I am sorry, but that doesn't impress me. The USA wants to keep secret thewM accuracy of its spy satellites. Do I care whether can they see a pimple on myaK face or just get enough details to see that I am walking out of my home ? Ia/ know that the USA can monitor anyone they want.   N Anyone who has seen James Bond moviesor any other spy movies probably wouldn'tL be so impressed with the actual US spy capabilities. Heck, if aliens came toK earth, we'd be saying things like "what, no replicators ? No hollow-deck ?,eJ geez, you guys aren't very advanced for a space faring civilisation!" ....  L It wasn't so much the revelation that the USA was capable of listening in onK phone conversations (geez, big news here!) but the fact that they had namedeH Bin Laden and were targetting him. That is why he started to live a very? covert life since he new know that the USA was looking for him..  M The military has very old thinking when it comes to technology. Remember thatCJ they used to be the sole users of computers and were far ahead of everyoneL else. But nowadays, the military is generally behind private corporations inN terms of technology. Look at how difficult it was to get the military to agreeM to remove those silly encryption export restrictions. They still thought thatIK their own encryption algorythms were so fancy that nobody else in the worldFD could possibly develop something as or stronger. Meanwhile, strongerJ encryption was widely available on the 'net which doesn't have boundaries.  L Same with GPS. The military insisted on keeping SA (reduction of accuracy onM purpose) on, this way, the military would have an edge on anyone else becauseoM they had the codes to use the accurate service. But civilians developped DGPSoN services that went around the silly SA scrambling. It took a few years for theJ military to agree that SA had become moot and that it should be turned off& (Thanks to Bill Clinton for that BTW).  N We already have seen commercially avalable satelite photographs that give goodG enough resultion. Does it really matter if the USA can see through your J clothes and get a close up on the tatoo on your shoulder to identify you ?  K The only thing that they should keep quiet is the number of satellites theylK have and their orbits. This way, I can't use my PDA to calculate when thereeM would likely be no satellites overhead, allowing me to run to the convenienceLN store to buy a chocolate bar and then run back home without the USA being able> to take a picture of what type of chocolate bar I just bought.  K I just don't see why the military thinks that its technology is so advancedCL that it must be kept ultra secret. Once you know that they can take picturesJ of you and listen in to any phone conversation, why all the coy measures ?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2001 16:22:41 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <SYnB7SXOMzXr@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  \ In article <3BF43DFA.398E199F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:M >>         the trial judge let the cat out of the bag on Bin Laden's recordedr+ >>         satellite phone conversations...t > N > It wasn't so much the revelation that the USA was capable of listening in onM > phone conversations (geez, big news here!) but the fact that they had namedtJ > Bin Laden and were targetting him. That is why he started to live a veryA > covert life since he new know that the USA was looking for him.s >    	You would have us believeD 	that Bin Laden was hiding because he was being sought or targetted?E 	Okay.  In a worthy or unworthy manner?  Unfairly because we were/are A 	seeking to kill him if he won't surrender peacefully?  You wouldl? 	prefer a jury trial instead of an out and out war to level himr@ 	and his cronies?  Okay.  We made that offer and started bombingE 	about 4 weeks later after the Taliban refused to hand them all over.0 	Our terms ... not theirs ....  H 	Let me guess... you would prefer the U.N. would be involved and somehow& 	a U.N. commission would go after him?    O > The military has very old thinking when it comes to technology. Remember thatsL > they used to be the sole users of computers and were far ahead of everyoneN > else. But nowadays, the military is generally behind private corporations in > terms of technology. t  > 	Or so you think.  We know a bit differently.  Depends on whatB 	technology you are describing.  How about stealth technology thatC 	the CIA allowed Lockheed Martin to incorporate into the F117A fromd
 	the SR71?  + 	Does that count as a good counter-example?    > M > I just don't see why the military thinks that its technology is so advanced N > that it must be kept ultra secret. Once you know that they can take picturesL > of you and listen in to any phone conversation, why all the coy measures ? >   ? 	Because it goes beyond pictures and conversations.  A judge in E 	New Jersey had to *not* reveal how a mobster's keystrokes were beinguE 	recorded by the FBI.  Sometimes these techniques are the very thingsn? 	that need to be guarded.  We know what they are after... it iss( 	important that methods not be revealed.   				Robe   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:19:00 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org@ Message-ID: <UXYI7.38982$jp.3011820@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BF42333.C65070AF@videotron.ca... > Trent Worthington wrote:0 > > HE ADMITTED IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!1 >k >tK > Sorry, but admitting being involved in a crime doesn't make you guilty in- a  > real court of law.  G Irrelevant (and unnecessarily picky:  if Bin Laden had actually claimed.E direct involvement, I wouldn't waste much effort in demanding furthernL proof).  The point is that the material presented was in no way an admissionK of guilt:  it was an expression of approval, support, solidarity of intent,+L even of pre-attack encouragement and intent to engage in similar post-attackG activity - but not of active complicity in the Sept.11th attack itself.e  H Knuckle-draggers don't consider such differences significant, of course.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:59:04 -0500b( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF472E8.8060400@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:     > Rob Young wrote:v  >G  >> the trial judge let the cat out of the bag on Bin Laden's recorded l	 satellite   >>  phone conversations...h  >>e  >A  > I am sorry, but that doesn't impress me. The USA wants to keepgC  > secret the accuracy of its spy satellites. Do I care whether canaF  > they see a pimple on my face or just get enough details to see thatA  >  I am walking out of my home ? I know that the USA can monitor   > anyone they want.  > <snip long rant>  G You're assuming that you know what the military/CIA/NSA/whatever wants  F to hide.  If you're right, then you're right, and they're being a bit F stuborn.  However, what if it is something else, something no one has G thought of?  Don't ask me what, then it wouldn't be unknown.  But, you 0L really have to allow that it could be something really worth keeping secret.   Dave   -- -4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:19:14 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF477A2.3060203@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  : > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3BF42333.C65070AF@videotron.ca... >  >>Trent Worthington wrote: >>/ >>>HE ADMITTED IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!1- >>>y >>K >>Sorry, but admitting being involved in a crime doesn't make you guilty iny >> > a  >  >>real court of law. >> > I > Irrelevant (and unnecessarily picky:  if Bin Laden had actually claimedeG > direct involvement, I wouldn't waste much effort in demanding further9N > proof).  The point is that the material presented was in no way an admissionM > of guilt:  it was an expression of approval, support, solidarity of intent,.N > even of pre-attack encouragement and intent to engage in similar post-attackI > activity - but not of active complicity in the Sept.11th attack itself.V > J > Knuckle-draggers don't consider such differences significant, of course. >  > - bill  # This is getting enormously amusing./    8 Let's see, an entity can be "an expression of approval, I support,solidarity of intent, even of pre-attack encouragement", but not ,G be guilty.  So, why is Terry Nichols in jail?  Placed there by a court l of law.c  @ And an entity can have "intent to engage in similar post-attack B activity", but should be left alone until it actually does attack?  " Ok, Bill, how about a little quiz?  H It's 1943, the US pilot is patroling the South Pacific in his shiny new G P-38 Lightning, and comes upon a Zero, complete with the rising sun on    the wing.  His proper action is:  E 1) Well, I'm not sure that this plane/pilot was at Pearl Harbor, and eI even if he approved, supported, had solidarity of intent, and pre-attack :G encourgement, plus is looking for US forces with intent to engage in a i3 post Pearl Harbor attack, I should leave him alone.u   2) Splash the zeke!U  3 Please post your chosen answer for it to be graded.n  	 Dave  :-)    -- f4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:58:36 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF49CF8.F05F63DA@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:# >         You would have us believelM >         that Bin Laden was hiding because he was being sought or targetted?5  J dahhh !   A criminal who knows is has been implicated to a crime will hide from the authorities.a    K >         technology you are describing.  How about stealth technology that L >         the CIA allowed Lockheed Martin to incorporate into the F117A from >         the SR71?t  I As soon as you know that one plane can be made stealth, you know that anynM plane could be made stealth. Does it matter if Bin Laden is being spied by ans SR-71 or an F117A ?h  H >         Because it goes beyond pictures and conversations.  A judge inN >         New Jersey had to *not* reveal how a mobster's keystrokes were being >         recorded by the FBI.    F Woopty doo. Back in the 80s, I read an article in a publicly publishedN magazine about the simple techniques to build a tuner that would show you whatK a CRT display across the street in another building was displaying. And thehI same techniques used for listening on phone conversatiosn can be used foro modem connections as well.  K Even a country such as Canada has a department in charge of listening in toeN anything they want/can, including a facility at Alert (one of the nearest landK points to the north pole) that can listen in to a lot of stuff all over the-L northern hemisphere. How they do it may be a secret, but the fact that it is being done isn't secret.    8 >         Sometimes these techniques are the very thingsH >         that need to be guarded.  We know what they are after... it is1 >         important that methods not be revealed.U  N At stake isn't what techniques are used to listen in to a satellite phone, butM rather the recording of such a phone call made by bin laden. How the evidencetK was obtained may be kept under wraps for national security reasons, but thee* evidence itself need not be kept a secret.  L Of course, if the information/evidence was illegally obtained as per the USAK constitution, then that is a different problem. But those laws won't changeuL unless the lawmakers are shown how those laws are preventing US intelligence from functioning.e   Oh, and one funny one:  N In the middle of nowhere in Australia is a super secret over-the-horizon radarN facility. How do I know ? There is a huge sign announcing the presence of thatI super secret radar facility at the turnoff that leads to the facility andg/ everyone in australia know about its existence.l  N And off all ironies, within a minute of my turning onto that turnoff to take aL picture of that sign, the police showed up. Nearest police station was ahoutL 50km away. A conspiracy theorist would say that the high tech radar facilityK were watching me slowly pedal on my bicycle up the dirt road and called the N police to arrive just at about the same time I would be. But in reality, thoseN cops were just coming back from their 2 day 4wd outing up the road and since IG had warned them I was going to travel that road, when they saw me, they  stopped to ask how I was doing.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:15:46 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>iN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF4A0FD.69451087@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote:vG > stuborn.  However, what if it is something else, something no one haseH > thought of?  Don't ask me what, then it wouldn't be unknown.  But, youN > really have to allow that it could be something really worth keeping secret.  H Ok, so they got Microsoft to embed some code in windows that activates aL hidden GPS in every PC built to send back the PC's current position wheneverM it connects to the internet. Is that really something that is hi-tech ? It is H being done to phone-handsets, trucking fleets and a whole bunch of otherG commercial/public vehicles who report their position to a dispatcher ate regular intervals.  I And what if they had a satellite in low earth orbit equipped with a hypertN sensitive and highly directional microphone that would be able to listen in toL a conversation on the ground ? (since there is still some (thin) atnmsphere,J that might be possible). You'd need fancy weather information to calculateN where to aim the microphone  since the voice propagation would be displaced by the winds at various altitudes.s  H But the USA freely admits to having planes equipped with fancy listeningM equipment fly near the shores of china to watch chinese TV, listen to chineseWN radio and a whole bunch of other stuff, why would anyone be surprised that the; US military listens in to various things around the world ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:03:15 GMTt" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org* Message-ID: <3BF4ACA6.F95F511@cumulus.com>   Rob Young wrote: > ^ > In article <3BF43DFA.398E199F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > Rob Young wrote:O > >>         the trial judge let the cat out of the bag on Bin Laden's recorded - > >>         satellite phone conversations...e > >dP > > It wasn't so much the revelation that the USA was capable of listening in onO > > phone conversations (geez, big news here!) but the fact that they had namedaL > > Bin Laden and were targetting him. That is why he started to live a veryC > > covert life since he new know that the USA was looking for him.Y > >r > # >         You would have us believe M >         that Bin Laden was hiding because he was being sought or targetted?0N >         Okay.  In a worthy or unworthy manner?  Unfairly because we were/areJ >         seeking to kill him if he won't surrender peacefully?  You wouldH >         prefer a jury trial instead of an out and out war to level himI >         and his cronies?  Okay.  We made that offer and started bombingoN >         about 4 weeks later after the Taliban refused to hand them all over.& >         Our terms ... not theirs ... > Q >         Let me guess... you would prefer the U.N. would be involved and somehowo/ >         a U.N. commission would go after him?t > Q > > The military has very old thinking when it comes to technology. Remember thatnN > > they used to be the sole users of computers and were far ahead of everyoneP > > else. But nowadays, the military is generally behind private corporations in > > terms of technology. > G >         Or so you think.  We know a bit differently.  Depends on what.K >         technology you are describing.  How about stealth technology thatiL >         the CIA allowed Lockheed Martin to incorporate into the F117A from >         the SR71?e >   G Correct.  The military industrial establishment is about 20 years aheadn$ of the private sector... always has.H At one time in the mid 80's, and the equipment wasn't classified either,G I had shown a computer system to a DEC salesman.  After I had shown himeG how it worked and what it could do, he was very impressed.  He did noteaH that it was way beyond the capabilities of VAX hardware.  Moving up into0 classified equipment....  heheheh... phenomenal!  O > > I just don't see why the military thinks that its technology is so advancedtP > > that it must be kept ultra secret. Once you know that they can take picturesN > > of you and listen in to any phone conversation, why all the coy measures ? > >c >   E It isn't what is advanced but more politically damaging that makes it  highly classified.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 00:08:31 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <4g7Nw4oSkjlQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3BF49CF8.F05F63DA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:   > I >>         Because it goes beyond pictures and conversations.  A judge in O >>         New Jersey had to *not* reveal how a mobster's keystrokes were being   >>         recorded by the FBI.  > H > Woopty doo. Back in the 80s, I read an article in a publicly publishedP > magazine about the simple techniques to build a tuner that would show you whatM > a CRT display across the street in another building was displaying. And thegK > same techniques used for listening on phone conversatiosn can be used fork > modem connections as well. >   C 	But it doesn't apply.  The technique mentioned above ... capturingt6 	remote keystrokes, isn't described.  Yeah, CRTs leak.   > 9 >>         Sometimes these techniques are the very thingstI >>         that need to be guarded.  We know what they are after... it is 2 >>         important that methods not be revealed. > P > At stake isn't what techniques are used to listen in to a satellite phone, butO > rather the recording of such a phone call made by bin laden. How the evidenceoM > was obtained may be kept under wraps for national security reasons, but theA, > evidence itself need not be kept a secret. >   A 	Technique and/or what is being gathered.  Yes, there is overlap.e  N > Of course, if the information/evidence was illegally obtained as per the USAM > constitution, then that is a different problem. But those laws won't changelN > unless the lawmakers are shown how those laws are preventing US intelligence > from functioning.  >   B 	Read Bamford's latest book.  The NSA - due to fallout from Frank G 	Church's investigations in the late 60s into spying on U.S. citizens - I 	abides by a very large document that has been added to over the years.  nG 	Bamford spends an inordinate boring section on the ins and outs... and @ 	former NSA employees testify that these guidelines are strictly 	adhered to.   > Oh, and one funny one: > P > In the middle of nowhere in Australia is a super secret over-the-horizon radarP > facility. How do I know ? There is a huge sign announcing the presence of thatK > super secret radar facility at the turnoff that leads to the facility andd1 > everyone in australia know about its existence.U >   2 	Bamford describes that station and why it exists.  < 	It exists because the U.S. needed a quiet place to download; 	unencrypted satellite communications that had little or noe> 	probability of being intercepted.  Its usage may have changed: 	over the years but that is why it was originally created.   	Its not a great secret.  P > And off all ironies, within a minute of my turning onto that turnoff to take aN > picture of that sign, the police showed up. Nearest police station was ahoutN > 50km away. A conspiracy theorist would say that the high tech radar facilityM > were watching me slowly pedal on my bicycle up the dirt road and called thehP > police to arrive just at about the same time I would be. But in reality, thoseP > cops were just coming back from their 2 day 4wd outing up the road and since II > had warned them I was going to travel that road, when they saw me, theya! > stopped to ask how I was doing.e     				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 00:22:35 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)wN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <MPRtf91FTx6q@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <4g7Nw4oSkjlQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:s   > D > 	Read Bamford's latest book.  The NSA - due to fallout from Frank I > 	Church's investigations in the late 60s into spying on U.S. citizens -a   	Make that early 70s.3   				Rob0   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:52:03 GMTF. From: "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgE Message-ID: <nI2J7.45235$S4.4107213@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>a  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BF49CF8.F05F63DA@videotron.ca...J > Of course, if the information/evidence was illegally obtained as per the USAnF > constitution, then that is a different problem. But those laws won't changeA > unless the lawmakers are shown how those laws are preventing USb intelligence > from functioning.S >.J Um,  the US constitution does not apply to bin laden or any other *foreignH national*.  Hence, it is perfectly legal by US law for the NSA to spy onK non-US citizens, but not legel for them to spy on US citizens.  In fact alluK current restrictions on CIA/NSA operations concerning foreign nationals are A solely based on congressional bills and presidential orders.  ie, J effectively no restrictions if need be except those that are alligned withB international law( of course that only matters when you care about international law).,   aaron    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:54:01 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>>- Subject: Re: usage of new products on vms axph+ Message-ID: <3BF41DE3.88044D3B@pacbell.net>    Jakob Erber wrote: > 	 > Hi All,i > G > most of the entries in this group are about complaining about the badkL > destiny of VMS. Bad support from Compaq and less and less products. But ifL > companies provide attractive new products for VMS nobody seems to be using > them. Examples?i > F > Due to the Java support on VMS, Beas J2EE product WebLogic Server isG > supported for VMS. Also Ionas powerfull ORB is available for VMS. Andh	 > others.c > M > This products would allow for VMS not to be treaded as legacy system but tooF > be fully integraded in a new system architecture. But the todays VMSF > community seems to consist "only" of System managers and C- or Marco > programmers.E Not completely true. I am a VMSer AND Java developer. I run a VMS web1H server, of course, but my language for GUI development has been Java forG several years, for exactly the reasons you state. ie I can (and do) runF7 new Java products on VMS, but I'm not limited to it(seeM* http://alphase.com/aex/Announcement.html).D I think some of the COV community are as you say, but they (and VMS)G really have been treated badly since the breakup of DEC. And, no sooner @ than we adjust to one major changes in our future, like going toA Itanium, than we're hit with crap like the HP merger. You have toeG understand many of us have worked with, and yes loved, VMS for 20 yearse( or more. We're entitled to some griping.   Done  d > B > Please excuse if this sounds hard, I just want to provoke a bit. >  > best regards >  > Jakob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:24:07 GMTn5 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@REMOVETHISossc.net>mH Subject: Re: Using INETACP_FUNC$C_GETHOSTBYNAME using fortran- examples?@ Message-ID: <rDUI7.67500$XR.5004815@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  I I assume that the $QIO that is coded up to INETACP will also include %VALaK and %REF's, right?    My take is from the ACP's view.  I don't think it's arL good idea to make the ACP call the bind code to do hostname translations forJ you.  Now, when I get a chance to redesign the ACP, perhaps it won't be so bad...   -Johna  1 message news:3BF33871.25D4A1AB@cableinet.co.uk...i >y >b > David Froble wrote:  > >  > > John Gemignani, Jr. wrote: > > K > >  > Why are you asking the ACP for this information?  You are better offc1 > >  >  calling the DECC function to do the work.p > >  > > >  > -John > >e0 > > Only if you can get yourself to work in 'C'. > G > Hey Dave, this is VMS, you can call C routines from Fortran, I'm surev > that is what JohnpC > meant. OK, you might have to mess with %VAL and %REF and friends.s > -- > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko >gD > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of# > my employers or service provider.r   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2001 13:30:13 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eE Subject: Re: VMS debug image runs OK but nocheck, check version crash 3 Message-ID: <q$UomJBeTE8z@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  p In article <7042227b.0111150905.199e056a@posting.google.com>, pearsonb@windows-devel.com (Brian Pearson) writes:  D > 2. Anyone have experience debugging an nondebug version of an EXE.  > The problem you describe is almost always due to uninitialized stack-local variables.  ? Make sure you have initialization on all variables, even if youi don't think you need it.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:51:42 GMT 5 From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@REMOVETHISossc.net>lE Subject: Re: VMS debug image runs OK but nocheck, check version crashb@ Message-ID: <i1VI7.67615$XR.5027737@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  K I think Fred has it there.  This is usually the sign of uninitialized stacksK (local) variables.  When you run the debugger the stack behaves differentlyn, and will usually make the problem disappear.   -John   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:skTI7.1629$RL6.52774@news.cpqcorp.net...nL > Try building the non-debug version no optimize and see what happens.  AlsoK > check for uninitialized variables (use a recent DEC C compiler and ask itn to > check for bad things). >   > Brian Pearson wrote in message6 > <7042227b.0111150905.199e056a@posting.google.com>...A > >Here's my dilema: I have a VMS EXE that crashes with an access B > >violation when compiled with check and nocheck (in other words,F > >nodebug) versions. When I compile and link a debug version, it runsH > >perfectly. This EXE dials out to remote location, hooks into a remoteF > >display and presents the display back to us, at the central office.E > >The EXE does lots of fun things like logical IO to change terminalh@ > >characteristics, etc. The problems started when we upgrade to0 > >OpenVMS/VAX Version 7.2. Here's my questions: > >hD > >1. Anyone experiences this problem after upgrading to OpenVMS/VAX > >Version 7.2.f > >.E > >2. Anyone have experience debugging an nondebug version of an EXE.i > >wA > >3. Access violation usually implies memory read/write problemshF > >(example, off the end of an array or to address 0). Anybody know ofE > >any other access violations associated with devices or logical IO.  >  >e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2001 11:53:11 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)@ Subject: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111151153.53e8cc78@posting.google.com>o  > this is posted on tru64 and zdnet ... this pretty much sums up@ what a poor marketing job dec and compaq have done with the best@ OS out there, VMS ... after reading this you'll shake your heads> in amazement at how stupid and misinformed the IT world is ...  6 IT consultancy sees quality platform options dwindling   By David Berlind
 Enterprise November 12, 2001   C LAS VEGAS -- If, as the old saying goes, you make the bed you sleepfB in, then Compaq and Microsoft are in for some sleepless nights. So? says Brian Smith, senior vice president for the Parsec Group, at< Lakewood, Colorado-based IT consulting and training company.  C Parsec's unique selling proposition is where certified training and D consulting intersects three platform universes: Compaq's OpenVMS andA Tru64 (the company's version of Unix), and Microsoft's BackOffice F suite and server operating systems. Parsec's combination of skills andE assets qualifies the company to address issues such as switching from D Compaq's OpenVMS or Tru64 to Microsoft Windows 2000 Server--a switchF that Smith discourages. And he should know: Parsec is both a MicrosoftD Gold Certified Partner and a Microsoft Certified Technical Education Center.   F The main problem with Open VMS, Compaq's industrial strength operatingF system, according to Smith, is a shrinking pool of people qualified toF run OpenVMS systems. Because his company is one of only four companiesB in the country authorized to certify OpenVMS engineers, Smith seesB first hand how few students are passing through the program. Fewer? students mean lower training revenues. On the other hand, fewert; OpenVMS experts create more demand for Parsec's consulting.n  > Many IT decision makers, particularly those not well-versed inD technology, are leery of OpenVMS' shrinking talent pool, and believeB Microsoft's solutions are a good substitute. But Windows currentlyA lacks industrial strength compared to Compaq's operating systems.nD Smith speaks fondly of an old button that reads, "Microsoft's answer@ to OpenVMS is NT 8.0." "That tells you how long it will take forC Windows to be as revered as OpenVMS," he says. "I think we are justhF about halfway there." To date, Windows server versions have had littleD success finding their way into datacenters. The result, according toC Smith, is that these decision makers rule out OpenVMS as an option.s  A Smith says that Compaq had a hand in creating this problem in thehE first place. In 1999, Compaq decertified its only authorized traininglA outfit, Global Knowledge. According to Smith, shortly thereafter,-< Compaq authorized four companies, including Parsec, to offerD certifications. But Compaq did a poor job communicating where to getF the training. As a result, OpenVMS lost some of its momentum. AlthoughA the market continues to grow, that growth is mostly from existing8A OpenVMS shops that are upgrading their OS, adding more systems to:D existing clusters, or expanding their infrastructure. "You don't see= new companies coming online and buying OpenVMS," notes Smith.e  D Further exacerbating the problem is the misperception that MicrosoftD has an equally capable solution accompanied by a growing talent pool1 of Microsoft Certified Systems Engineers (MCSEs).   F The talent pool is indeed growing, according to Smith, but he believes? that most MCSEs are not competent enough to provide adequate orm3 authoritative business systems consulting services.   = The other problem is that most MCSEs lack college degrees aret; ill-equipped to deal with business processes, especially if  re-engineering is required.   B Smith sees the growing number of MCSEs having a negative effect onE other, less-popular environments like OpenVMS and Tru64. He says thatvF Microsoft is relentless when it comes to getting people trained, oftenE establishing separate programs that cannibalize the training revenuesh? of its own training partners. "We pay $3,875 to be a 'CTECH' (a < certified training center) and we employ Microsoft-certifiedF trainers," Smith says. "But Microsoft puts out ads for online trainingC that you can buy for $50 that compete with us and devalue the CTECH B program." The result: more MCSEs that charge very little for theirB services. That further drives the demand for Microsoft, especially  from uninformed decision makers.  A Another factor often overlooked in the technology decision-makingkF process is total cost of ownership (TCO). "In some cases," says Smith,@ "clients will take a perfectly good system based on OpenVMS, andD abandon it for a Visual Basic-based Access database application justD because they believe an inexpensive talent pool will maintain it and? upgrade it going forward. Never mind that they haven't made anyeD upgrades or had any problems in the last five years." His sentimentsB are echoed by other Tech Update readers who have described OpenVMSF systems that are a cinch to run when compared to their Microsoft-based systems.  B None of this even takes into account whether Windows is capable ofC taking over the sort of data center operations that run on OpenVMS.s? Most think not. At Gartner Symposium/ITxpo, Microsoft CEO Steve A Ballmer admitted that Microsoft has a lot of work to do before itkA penetrates the data center. And Bill Gates, in his Comdex keynote F speech, said, "We need servers that are far more reliable than what we@ have today." It had to have been an admission about Windows 2000E Server because such servers exist. They're just not built on Windows._  D Between the progress Windows needs to make before it's ready for the> data center, and the decreasing popularity in perfectly viableE alternatives like OpenVMS and Tru64 (especially given the uncertaintyoF around the proposed HP-Compaq merger), there are real challenges ahead/ when it comes to strategic platform selections.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:21:00 -0000a3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>rD Subject: Re: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading .... Message-ID: <9t1bs1$ol5$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0111151153.53e8cc78@posting.google.com...n@ > this is posted on tru64 and zdnet ... this pretty much sums upB > what a poor marketing job dec and compaq have done with the bestB > OS out there, VMS ... after reading this you'll shake your heads@ > in amazement at how stupid and misinformed the IT world is ... > 8 > IT consultancy sees quality platform options dwindling >  [...]  >tF > Further exacerbating the problem is the misperception that MicrosoftF > has an equally capable solution accompanied by a growing talent pool3 > of Microsoft Certified Systems Engineers (MCSEs).b > H > The talent pool is indeed growing, according to Smith, but he believesA > that most MCSEs are not competent enough to provide adequate ory5 > authoritative business systems consulting services.a >c I agree ;-)T  I My experience of those with MCSEs is that they are inflexible. They can'ts think out of the MCSE box...  ; It's been fun sometimes watching MCSEs (I have no formal NTaD qualiications whatsoever) do something that you know from experienceH (the best teacher!) won't work, after you've told them it won't work and they insist that it will...f  E Of course, no disrespect intended to those of you with MCSEs that cantD think 'out of the box' - probably because you used to work on a nice flexibleJ operating system like VMS ;-) [My initial serious computer exposure was onD DOS (PC not PDP), then VMS, then Windows NT. Using VMS before I usedK NT, then seeing the similarities but also the huge missing parts, gave me a  pretty low opinion of NT]d  J I wonder what it would have been like if Dave Cutler hadn't been forced to put the Windows API on it...   -Malcolm MacArthur   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:39:57 +0100d2 From: Berger Harald <hotline@harryworld.dydns.org>= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPn8 Message-ID: <g899vtse6nd3lefhseqepc8ahg5ggbutsc@4ax.com>  E a lillte bit below (entry with 90 lines) is the anal/rms /fdl file...t heres the anal /rms:y  D Check RMS File Integrity                     16-NOV-2001 06:36:01.77 Page 1  DSA501:<ET_KATALOG>EXP_ART.TXT;1     FILE HEADERs  3         File Spec: DSA501:<ET_KATALOG>EXP_ART.TXT;1t         File ID: (231,1,0)         Owner UIC: [BERGER]nC         Protection:  System: RWED, Owner: RWED, Group: RWED, World:. RWED0         Creation Date:   15-NOV-2001 09:22:49.54;         Revision Date:   15-NOV-2001 09:31:41.06, Number: 1t'         Expiration Date: none specified $         Backup Date:     none posted!         Contiguity Options:  noneo!         Performance Options: none !         Reliability Options: nonen!         Journaling Enabled:  none      RMS FILE ATTRIBUTES   %         File Organization: sequentialI         Record Format: variable-,         Record Attributes:  carriage-return           Maximum Record Size: 350         Longest Record: 143 5         Blocks Allocated: 378, Default Extend Size: 0C.         End-of-File VBN: 375, Offset: %X'007E'!         File Monitoring: disableda         Global Buffer Count: 0    ! The analysis uncovered NO errors.r     ANAL/RMS EXP_ART.TXT  D the status now is that, after i created the files an a single shadow> set member (1 disk dismounted) i can type each file by itself.  2 but a type *.txt brings the QIO error again......   < today i will test a singe shadow-set with the other disk....              , On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:10:57 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a   >ok another twist: >tO >have you tried edit/tpu and etit/edt (then "change", then scroll down) for the  >file ?e ><P >TPU reads the whole file into memory as you start. EDT reads it as you need it. >.7 >Out of curiosity, have you done ANA/RMS for the file ?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:20:40 GMTm" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>. Subject: Re: Welcome To Microsoft's IT Academy+ Message-ID: <3BF4B0C1.DFCA1582@cumulus.com>i   Jerry Leslie wrote:o > 5 > Microsoft understands how to breed loyal minions...n > 6 >    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7875365.htmlF >    Microsoft expands tech training programs -  Tech News -  CNET.com > - >    Microsoft expands tech training programsS >    By Joe Wilcox  >    Staff Writer, CNET News.com% >    November 14, 2001, 12:50 p.m. PTd > K >   "Microsoft on Wednesday added yet another way to recruit Windows users:eH >    A program to train students in high schools, vocational schools andI >    two- and four-year colleges to work with the software maker's latest  >    technology. > J >    Dubbed IT Academy, the program is billed as a way to prepare studentsD >    for careers in high tech. While the program is expected to helpK >    schools train students for technology jobs, Microsoft also benefits byiH >    adding yet another tool in its recruitment arsenal. As it does withD >    software developer programs, which offer tools and training forK >    creating applications that run on Windows operating systems, Microsoft < >    will be able to generate more interest in its products. > F >    Microsoft's ambitious training program underscores the increasingJ >    importance of leveraging school programs to maintain market share andG >    public awareness, analysts say. For years, Apple Computer used itshJ >    near lock on system and software sales to elementary and high schools+ >    as way of keeping up interest in Macs.  >    . >    . >    .J >    But Microsoft does not provide training in competing or non-Microsoft >    technologies. > B >    Yes, they are just trained in Microsoft products, Carew said.K >    "However, the schools do have the freedom to develop their curriculum,eC >    so there are soft skills in the program, so that it's not justO >    product-focused." > K >    Microsoft is offering the program in two levels, costing either $1,500AE >    or $5,000 annually. The program runs from Jan. 1 to Dec. 31. All I >    accredited U.S. or Canadian high schools or colleges are eligible toeG >    participate in the first program, but the higher-level one is onlye" >    available to high schools..." >   A M$ has a campus in Bothell, WA... but a lot of people call it thet brothel in bothel.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Nov 2001 21:48:37 GMT* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)2 Subject: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time?) Message-ID: <9t1d7l$c5u$1@hecate.umd.edu>M  M I was demonstrating to a user the effect of SUBMIT/CPUTIME.  I wrote a simpleg command procedure:  & $ set proc/priv=(nopriv,tmpmbx,netmbx) $ on error then goto email $loop: $ goto loop  $email:s* $ mail/noself/subj="loop" sys$input system
 infinite loopm $ exit 1  M and did a SUBMIT/CPUTIME=0:0:5 .  It indeed stopped (without sending any mailnN message, btw, but that's another story), after about *12* seconds of cpu time!K I tried it again, and this time it terminated after 15 seconds cpu time.  I O checked the accounting records, which is how I know.  (The log file didn't havei@ any logout info at the bottom, but again, that's another issue.)  L Does anyone have an idea why a process would continue for a whole lot longer than the specified cputime?a   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.eduv   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2001 16:12:28 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e6 Subject: Re: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time?3 Message-ID: <EjVdWrld6Kux@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  V In article <9t1d7l$c5u$1@hecate.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes: > N > Does anyone have an idea why a process would continue for a whole lot longer > than the specified cputime?e >   ; 	Yes.  You have a time sharing system.  Each process needs oA 	several slices of the CPU (QUANTUM) to complete its run.  As youn> 	add more and more processes, you have to dole out more slicesB 	hence the wall clock is moving while you wait to come back aroundA 	and get another slice (i.e. everyone else is serviced in a roundlC 	robin fashion and then your turn comes up again).  Of course there-5 	is the whole matter of priority and interrupts, etc.J   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:22:48 +1100t/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>7 Subject: xp ads@1 Message-ID: <hF%I7.1915$2Z5.84895@ozemail.com.au>   $ could this be "our" Andrew Harrison?  - http://freespace.virgin.net/andrew.harrison4/n   (beware of pop-up ads)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.637 ************************