1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 16 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 638       Contents: APC UPS Software by TMESIS RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS" Can vaxstation be booted headless?& Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless? Re: Compaq/HP merger in trouble  Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?  decc$set_child_standard_streams  DEQ bonuses... Re: DEQ bonuses... Re: DEQ bonuses... Re: DEQ bonuses...D Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthD Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width  Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.& HP-Compaq deal two years in the making* Re: HP-Compaq deal two years in the making re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??  Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ?? ( Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests( Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests( Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests( Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests/ Re: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2 E OpenVMS Consortium NOW!!!! was (Re: usage of new products on vms axp) ? OT: Justice Department tells judge MS settlement is tough on MS  Re: P/OS anyone? Re: P/OS anyone? Re: P/OS anyone? Re: Proxy Removal Problem. Re: Proxy Removal Problem.3 Re: Secondary and/or Alternative OPCOM output setup E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org  Re: Using vfork and exit
 Re: VMS Crash < Re: VMS debug image runs OK but nocheck, check version crash Re: VMS emulator needed ; Re: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading ... 7 VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! 4 Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELP Wanted: Alphaserver 2100 Re: Wanted: Small MicroVAX RE: Wanted: Small MicroVAX% Re: Welcome To Microsoft's IT Academy - Re: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time? - Re: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time? $ Wide-Area SAN configuration question( Re: Wide-Area SAN configuration question
 Re: xp ads  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 09:50:34 -0800/ From: robin.brady@ssb.state.tx.us (Robin Brady) # Subject: APC UPS Software by TMESIS = Message-ID: <17e7dda1.0111160950.64b71844@posting.google.com>   4 Does anyone have any experience with software calledH UPShot by TMESIS Software (http://www.tmesis.com/apc/registration.htmlx) on OpenVMS Alpha 7.3?   : Just curious how well it works as it appears to be a beta.   Robin    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:53:40 -0600 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> ' Subject: RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DE6F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  % There's a good chance VAXman does. :)    Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '       > -----Original Message-----H > From: robin.brady@ssb.state.tx.us [mailto:robin.brady@ssb.state.tx.us]  6 > Does anyone have any experience with software called > UPShot by TMESIS Software 0 > (http://www.tmesis.com/apc/registration.htmlx) > on OpenVMS Alpha 7.3?   < > Just curious how well it works as it appears to be a beta.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 2001 09:55:47 GMT- From: forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh) + Subject: Can vaxstation be booted headless? ) Message-ID: <9t2nr3$l9f$1@news.panix.com>   * I have several vs's (4000/60's and vlc's),+ all booting okay with S3 switch up and vt's * plugged in mmj ports.  But would prefer to* boot them headless, and  set host  to them+ as necessary, rather than having a terminal + on each.  Is that possible?  Is there maybe + some kind of kvm-like device that can "fake  it out"?  Thanks,  John (forkosh@panix.com)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:12:03 +0100 , From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>/ Subject: Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless? * Message-ID: <9t2p4e$c90$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  : "John Forkosh" <forkosh@panix1.panix.com> wrote in message# news:9t2nr3$l9f$1@news.panix.com... , > I have several vs's (4000/60's and vlc's),- > all booting okay with S3 switch up and vt's , > plugged in mmj ports.  But would prefer to, > boot them headless, and  set host  to them- > as necessary, rather than having a terminal - > on each.  Is that possible?  Is there maybe - > some kind of kvm-like device that can "fake  > it out"?  Thanks,  > John (forkosh@panix.com)  L If you can boot them from the vt, you should also be able to set the consoleF parameter HALT to the value 2, which means that it should boot after aL succesfull power up self test., wheter there is a terminal connected or not.  H However, be aware that if you plug a terminal into the console port of aI running VAX, there is a fat chance that it will halt, because it sees the ? state change of the port as a braek signal, which means 'HALT'.   G I think that the best solution is to connect the consoles to ports of a G terminal server. If you create services on the terminal server, you can K connect tou the consoles when needed, without the need of physical changes.    HTH,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 16:01:19 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ( Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger in troubleH Message-ID: <y4r8qy4v5s.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:   E > So yes it was big and noisy but it really could run for a very long ? > time unattended if some of the more sensitive components were 6 > replaced/bypassed., Who remembers AIRFLOW CPU halts?  K The 8600/8650 was the first VAX to have that. Not funny when a sensor fault 0 stops an entire community (CERN) from working...   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:37:42 GMT ' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> ( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters( Message-ID: <3BF55CF6.4B0F585@UIowa.EDU>  K Can/will DFO defragment "open" files?  That is, big database files open for L both read/write operations by an application.  Files up to multi-GB in size, filling 40-70% of a disk...    Rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:54:48 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmentersL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1611011354480001@user-2ivea0r.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <3BF55CF6.4B0F585@UIowa.EDU>, Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> wrote:  M > Can/will DFO defragment "open" files?  That is, big database files open for N > both read/write operations by an application.  Files up to multi-GB in size, > filling 40-70% of a disk...   H I think not.  Certainly not in normal operation, since it sometimes logsH messages when it comes to an open file.  I don't think there is a way to+ override this behavior, but I may be wrong.   J This is why it is generally not a problem if you can't set the no-move bitJ on a system file because it is always open.  Since DFO will never move the= always-open file, the no-move bit doesn't matter in practice.   H DFO will try to move all the other files on the disk to consolidate freeB space, so at least your big file won't get more fragmented as timeJ passes.  If it is the only file on the disk, and it is already fragmented,  I don't think DFO will help you.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:23:07 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?3 Message-ID: <F8PEK8EJT2Ek@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <3BF43FA5.8DB0C8B5@gsfc.nasa.gov>, Robert DiRosario <robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:  >> I can't get a chevron prompt @ > Simple, give it a hardware fault.  That will stop the autoboot2 > and give you the chevron prompt and you can turn > autoboot off.   D    Yeah, I just cycled power, disconnecting the disk while power wasE    off.  Then I changed the auoboot setting.  Now I'm going to peruse H    my collection of electronic parts.  I didn't say it had to be pretty.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:25:42 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?3 Message-ID: <r$IXi1Yq4C85@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3BF4785B.2060906@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > K > Don't know specifically about this model, but most VAX and Alpha systems  D > will interupt the OS and present the console prompt upon either a G > <break> or a ^P.  Not having the default boot device available works  A > also, as mentioned above, if the keyboard command doesn't work.   B    Common on servers, but neihter seems to work on my workstation.F    I tried all combinations of control or alt with function and typing    keys.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:24:17 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?3 Message-ID: <vVtpXSFpxuTa@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-1511011938280001@user-2ive76c.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  > L > Note:  I think Bob is talking about the DSSI alpha system (DEC 4000 300 --H > was there a model 300?) not the turbochannel system (DEC 3000 400, forI > example.)  My eyes scrambled the model number the first time I read the J > message. I typed up a keenly irrelevant reply, which I discarded unsent. >   5    Oops.  DEC 3000 400 (Alpha workstation).  No DSSI.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:11:57 +0100 , From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>& Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?* Message-ID: <9t3amp$joq$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:vVtpXSFpxuTa@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > In articleA <rdeininger-1511011938280001@user-2ive76c.dialup.mindspring.com>, 4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > > G > > Note:  I think Bob is talking about the DSSI alpha system (DEC 4000  300 --J > > was there a model 300?) not the turbochannel system (DEC 3000 400, forK > > example.)  My eyes scrambled the model number the first time I read the L > > message. I typed up a keenly irrelevant reply, which I discarded unsent. > >  > 7 >    Oops.  DEC 3000 400 (Alpha workstation).  No DSSI.  >   I My DEC 3000 400 has a halt button on the backside below the network (AUI) 
 connector.  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:04:11 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> & Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?/ Message-ID: <3BF5548F.6B588FD4@cableinet.co.uk>    Bob Koehler wrote: >  > In article <rdeininger-1511011938280001@user-2ive76c.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  > > N > > Note:  I think Bob is talking about the DSSI alpha system (DEC 4000 300 --J > > was there a model 300?) not the turbochannel system (DEC 3000 400, forK > > example.)  My eyes scrambled the model number the first time I read the L > > message. I typed up a keenly irrelevant reply, which I discarded unsent. > >  > 7 >    Oops.  DEC 3000 400 (Alpha workstation).  No DSSI.   F hey, I used to have one of those on my desk, alsmost responded to your
 first postH but then looked and discovered there WAS and Alpha 4000-300. My 3000-400 definitely had a reset switch.   B FWIW, when the reset switch on a MicroVAX 3100 M30 went bad, field service H replaced the motherboard for me. I'm sure you know what you are doing if you plan. to take a soldering iron to your motherboard.    regards  --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:11:26 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1611011311270001@user-2ivea0r.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <vVtpXSFpxuTa@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   > In articleA <rdeininger-1511011938280001@user-2ive76c.dialup.mindspring.com>, 4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > > N > > Note:  I think Bob is talking about the DSSI alpha system (DEC 4000 300 --J > > was there a model 300?) not the turbochannel system (DEC 3000 400, forK > > example.)  My eyes scrambled the model number the first time I read the L > > message. I typed up a keenly irrelevant reply, which I discarded unsent. > >  > 7 >    Oops.  DEC 3000 400 (Alpha workstation).  No DSSI.   G In that case, it should have a halt button, just below the AUI ethernet I conntector.  On one (out of 4) of the systems I have seen, the sticky-out I part of the button is missing, but the button still works.  I guess rough D handling could have eliminated the button altogether on your system.  I If the system is set to workstation mode (via S3, just to the left of the H diagnostic LEDs), I think removing the keyboard/mouse cable will keep itG from auto-booting.  If it's in server mode via (S3 down, IIRC) it won't I care about the missing stuff.  But it sounds like you already found a way  to get the system's attention.  I These systems will NOT switch to the alternate console if the keyboard is C missing, as the DEC 3000 300 family does.  They only care about the 6 position of S3.  And they only look at S3 on power-up.  D There is a security jumper inside.  That has to do with enabling theA console-level password that protects privileged console commands.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 06:36:55 -0800. From: kinkade@idi-middleware.com (Ian Kinkade)( Subject: decc$set_child_standard_streams= Message-ID: <427875dd.0111160636.6de71f2f@posting.google.com>   B We're back-porting an application from 7.1 to 6.1 and the functionF decc$set_child_standard_streams doesn't exist in 6.1. Anyone any ideas, on how we can implement this or fake it out?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:29:04 -0500 > From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com> Subject: DEQ bonuses... M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D0160256E@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>e   In the news...  6 Executive Bonuses Included in the Hewlett-Compaq Deal   < Senior executives of Hewlett-Packard and Compaq will receive8 bonuses totaling more than $55 million if the companies'6 merger succeeds and they stay on until September 2003.I http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/16/technology/16HEWL.html?todaysheadlines     :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadway  Albany, NY  12204s USAa 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com   ) I post personal opinion only, and all thee* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).g+ One should also take note of the Electronicl) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whichy+ imposes civil and criminal liability on anya( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:34:10 -0800 (PST)n. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: DEQ bonuses...e@ Message-ID: <20011116163410.12290.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>   So, as you see...g  " "IT IS NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL MERGER"    # It is just another mafia agreement.t  2 Families Fiorina+Capellas (both italian surnames).   Regardsy   FC=20  --- "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)"$ <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com> wrote: > In the news... >=202 > Executive Bonuses Included in the Hewlett-Compaq	 > Deal=20q >=206 > Senior executives of Hewlett-Packard and Compaq will	 > receivea/ > bonuses totaling more than $55 million if the  > companies'2 > merger succeeds and they stay on until September > 2003.n > H http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/16/technology/16HEWL.html?todaysheadlines >=20 >=20 > :) jck > John Koska > Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -$ >   A Member of the LexisNexis Group > 1275 Broadwaye > Albany, NY  12204w > USAq > 518-487-3255 > John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.come >=20+ > I post personal opinion only, and all thec, > disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That* > includes, I speak for myself only and my+ > views in no way represent my employer(s). - > One should also take note of the Electronico+ > Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whiche- > imposes civil and criminal liability on any * > person who intentionally intercepts "any* > wire, oral or electronic communication."     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DnL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Do F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazila fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:25:33 GMTn= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: DEQ bonuses... 0 Message-ID: <00A05222.4081CAA7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <20011116163410.12290.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:r >So, as you see... >.# >"IT IS NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL MERGER"r >i >o$ >It is just another mafia agreement. > 3 >Families Fiorina+Capellas (both italian surnames).  >  >Regards >w >FC=20  J Too bad Micro$oft has already locked up the garbage business or they'd be 
 a shoe in. ;)d   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            fJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbess   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:42:30 GMTi. From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: DEQ bonuses...o? Message-ID: <aecJ7.21800$RG1.10811768@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>-   Fabio Cardoso wrote- >So, as you see...# >"IT IS NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL MERGER"r$ >It is just another mafia agreement.3 >Families Fiorina+Capellas (both italian surnames).d  : Capellas is a Greek surname, according to my Italian wife.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 16 Nov 01 10:13:45 GMT: From: jmfbahciv@aol.comsM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widtha+ Message-ID: <9t2vs8$e46$5@bob.news.rcn.net>-  8 In article <d1s7vtk0auh5nqld9mfgcqqfh870aajt9a@4ax.com>,)    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:mG >On 15 Nov 2001 09:20:41 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)1 >wrote:2 >1G >>In article <9su33p$t16$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:: >> >>re Macro-10: >>: >>> Then don't use it.  I suspect you're confused, though. >>@ >>Not an option since the compiler's couldn't do what we needed. >>@ >>> I find that to be proper.  What system call did you need forG >>> an application that wasn't available through the compiler language?e >>J >>I don't recallw hich ones anymore, but we used several JSYS that neitherG >>Fortran not Cobol had a clue about.  Those were the only compilers wecI >>had until I loaded BLISS-10 off the freeware tape.  Coming from calling-E >>everything from Fortran on our RSX and VMS systems I found it to bex >>quite a pain.h > C >You ran into the problem of trying to use a native TOPS-20 feature$G >from Fortran or Cobol which were designed to support TOPS-10 so had not% >interface to things such as COMND.  l  : Ah, now I understand.  I thought he was talking about I/O.   >A lot of sites wrote their ownyF >package but there were also (usually non DEC) provided languages suchD >as Pascal, Simula and SAIL which provided a high level interface toE >TOPS-20 calls. DEC should have provided a general calling convention B >form HLLs to avoid everyone having to re-invent the wheel (no pun >intended :-))   Real men used PIVOT :-)).o     >dE >I am fairly certain that the PASCAL implementation was callable fromoB >any other TOPS-20 HLL including DEC's own. So you just called theC >PASCAL RTL COMND interface routines from FORTRAN. You had to go annG >grab Rutgers Pascal first though and DEC should have done a better jobe >here I agree. > E >I can also recall a student who wrote a generally callable interfacetF >from HLLs in Macro as part of a project. But he shouldn't really have >had to do so. >aD >Sometimes DEC targeted layered products at TOPS-10 and assumed that7 >not supporting the additional TOPS-20 features was ok.s  @ Nope.  That's not how it happened.  Language development stopped" targeting TOPS-10 in the late 70s.   <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:29:56 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)tM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widthh3 Message-ID: <pcusspZWmDsv@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ` In article <d1s7vtk0auh5nqld9mfgcqqfh870aajt9a@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > D > You ran into the problem of trying to use a native TOPS-20 featureH > from Fortran or Cobol which were designed to support TOPS-10 so had no$ > interface to things such as COMND.  B    Fortran-10 and Cobol-whatever had no concept of OS things, justE    implemented pretty much what the ANSI standard required with a fewsE    extensions like tab formatting.  Couldn't get to a TOPS-10 UUO or i    a TOPS-20 JSYS.  G    Bliss-10 seemed to have some inkling of what a UUO was, but since it B    had in line assembly capabilities one code code up a JSYS.  TheC    tricky part was doing it in a way that let one catch the skip ona+    success return (another primitive idea).a   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:38:49 +0000 (UTC)- From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: HP kills MPE. It's official.k+ Message-ID: <9t2qbp$2gv$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>C  h In article <d7791aa1.0111151001.66783cb7@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:b >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3BF39B5B.A3394E4F@videotron.ca>... >> Alan Greig wrote: >nK >if anything saves vms, it will be the military and the DOE commitments ...,  * Plus Intel's need for VMS to run its Fabs.O If it was easy for them to change over to some other OS they would have done its< by now - instead they moved from VMS on Vax to VMS on Alpha.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    y   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:04:09 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)h/ Subject: HP-Compaq deal two years in the makingu' Message-ID: <9t2h9p$ptl$2@joe.rice.edu>o Keywords: hp,compaq,deal  ; It seems like Intel's roll in getting the ALPHA and PA-RISC 8 engineers and IP should have been part of this filing...  4    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7892342.htmlB    HP-Compaq deal two years in the making -  Tech News -  CNET.com       By Jeff Pelline and Ian Fried    Staff Writers, CNET News.comO"    November 15, 2001, 5:25 p.m. PT  ?   "Hewlett-Packard's board had identified Compaq Computer as an F    acquisition candidate as early as 1999, the same year Carly FiorinaG    joined the company as the first chief executive officer from outsideh    HP's ranks.  F    The lengthy courtship between the two computer giants--which hit anD    impasse at least once--was disclosed Thursday in a 120-page proxyB    statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. ItC    provides details and insights into one of the largest mergers inlG    high-tech history, a deal that is being challenged by family membersB7    of HP co-founders William Hewlett and David Packard.j  H    "In 1999, due to an increasingly competitive market, the HP board andE    members of HP management became particularly focused on developingeG    strategies to secure HP's future," the filing said. "As part of thisjH    process, HP evaluated a range of strategic alternatives and potentialH    acquisition candidates, including (with support in particular from HP;    directors Richard Hackborn and George Keyworth) Compaq."-    .    .    .I    HP once was the leading Unix server seller, but the company lost sharerE    when it turned much of its attention to Windows servers running onr    Intel chips.r  F    Compaq, despite its highly regarded Tru64 version of Unix and AlphaE    chips, had little success outside telecommunications and technicalbH    computing customers. The company discontinued its Alpha chip in June,I    deciding to move its operating systems to the still-young Itanium chipg!    co-developed by HP and Intel."w  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 04:20:15 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n3 Subject: Re: HP-Compaq deal two years in the making-, Message-ID: <3BF4DA4A.5B499361@videotron.ca>   Jerry Leslie wrote: 6 >    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7892342.html   From an actual SEC filing:R > http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/47217/000091205701538679/a2063145z425.txt ##C Another appointment we made on September 3rd has not been as widelyoN communicated. Mike Winkler will serve as Executive Vice President, Operations,M in the new company, reporting to Michael Capellas. Mike is currently Compaq'se0 Executive Vice President, Global Business Units. ##   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:33:01 +0100i/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> " Subject: re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??7 Message-ID: <00A0521A.E94CB08E.22@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>a  K > With both Compaq and HP having announced their unconditional surrender tonM > Intel, will there be any serious "enterprise" vendors that will sell HammeraN > based systems, or will Hammer be relegated to the home computing market (eg:: > high end 3d graphics with live rendering etc for games).  E Impossible to predict the future, but it's not that black and white. nG There are several of what one might call second-tier enterprise vendorsaH pushing AMD PC systems right now, for example NEC. And there are quite aF few companies selling twin-Athlon-MP rackmount systems, and presumablyF customers for them, because they knock anything Intel-based for six inB the price-performance stakes. I can't imagine any home user buyingE a rackmount system. I'd guess the main markets are the smaller e-biz  8 servers and scientific number-crunch farms of all sizes.  F So, it's really a matter of whether AMD can offer advantages that willM out-lever the advantage that Intel has managed to obtain using xylophones andn blue men and FUD.   G One MAJOR difference: AMD's hammer is also known as the K8, just as theeG Athlon is the K7. It will in due course replace the K7. It will run all3I the existing IA32 systems natively. And it will therefore sell a lot moreeF units than Itanium, provided that the unused 64-bitness doesn't put itG at a disadvantage to the 32-bit Pentium 4. And if it can compete in the E desktop market, it'll be hugely cheaper than IA64 chips in the 64-bitdE server arena courtesy of economy of scale. AMD has surely worked this / all out, and believes it'll work well for them..  C In short: AMD are trying to drive a wedge between the Pentium-4 and E the incompatible IA64. (Ie, why port to a different architecture when F AMD's is binary-compatible?) Methinks they may succeed, and if they doG Intel is in BIG trouble. (And yet another landmine on the road that VMSi is being steered down. Sigh. ) > E > Will IBM try to regain NT onto Power, or will it become a Microsofta9 > competitor, pushing Linux on Power against NT on IA64 ?o  L Present strategy is fairly obviously the latter. Corporate politics is that G IBM hates MS (because of OS2), and elephants never forget. If IBM were sJ to want to re-enter the MS-compatible server market, methinks that they'd G strike a deal with AMD rather than Intel. (It would surely be worth at )H least as much as AMD's entire advertising budget to be endorsed by IBM!)J However, I can't imagine IBM wanting to get back into a market where just * about everyone is losing money right now.    	Yours,b
 		Nigel Arnot:- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   u  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.".   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:03:13 GMTb  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>" Subject: Re: IBM to bid for CPQ ??+ Message-ID: <3BF538CA.A0955086@prodigy.net>f   Nigel Arnot wrote: > M > > With both Compaq and HP having announced their unconditional surrender to O > > Intel, will there be any serious "enterprise" vendors that will sell Hammer0P > > based systems, or will Hammer be relegated to the home computing market (eg:< > > high end 3d graphics with live rendering etc for games). > F > Impossible to predict the future, but it's not that black and white.I > There are several of what one might call second-tier enterprise vendorstJ > pushing AMD PC systems right now, for example NEC. And there are quite aH > few companies selling twin-Athlon-MP rackmount systems, and presumablyH > customers for them, because they knock anything Intel-based for six inD > the price-performance stakes. I can't imagine any home user buyingF > a rackmount system. I'd guess the main markets are the smaller e-biz: > servers and scientific number-crunch farms of all sizes. > H > So, it's really a matter of whether AMD can offer advantages that willO > out-lever the advantage that Intel has managed to obtain using xylophones andr > blue men and FUD.r > I > One MAJOR difference: AMD's hammer is also known as the K8, just as thesI > Athlon is the K7. It will in due course replace the K7. It will run allrK > the existing IA32 systems natively. And it will therefore sell a lot more0H > units than Itanium, provided that the unused 64-bitness doesn't put itI > at a disadvantage to the 32-bit Pentium 4. And if it can compete in thecG > desktop market, it'll be hugely cheaper than IA64 chips in the 64-bitnG > server arena courtesy of economy of scale. AMD has surely worked this 1 > all out, and believes it'll work well for them.- > E > In short: AMD are trying to drive a wedge between the Pentium-4 and G > the incompatible IA64. (Ie, why port to a different architecture whennH > AMD's is binary-compatible?) Methinks they may succeed, and if they doI > Intel is in BIG trouble. (And yet another landmine on the road that VMSt  > is being steered down. Sigh. ) > >HG > > Will IBM try to regain NT onto Power, or will it become a Microsoftl; > > competitor, pushing Linux on Power against NT on IA64 ?l > M > Present strategy is fairly obviously the latter. Corporate politics is thataH > IBM hates MS (because of OS2), and elephants never forget. If IBM wereK > to want to re-enter the MS-compatible server market, methinks that they'd5, > strike a deal with AMD rather than Intel.   - Huh?  I think they're already in that market.o     >(It would surely be worth at J > least as much as AMD's entire advertising budget to be endorsed by IBM!)K > However, I can't imagine IBM wanting to get back into a market where just9+ > about everyone is losing money right now.i >  >         Yours, >                 Nigel Arnot * >                 NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK > G >                 "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:28:27 -0500.  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>1 Subject: Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server testse5 Message-ID: <1011116112115.7538A-100000@Ives.egh.com>u  " On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Milton wrote:  Y > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011114/tc/itanium_flunking_compaq_server_tests_1.htmlM > G > Intel's Itanium processor is failing to pass Compaq Computer's stressvB > tests, according to a Compaq representative, thus holding up the& > release of Compaq's Itanium servers. >     ? > A Compaq representative said that the company has experiencedoD > "sightings" with Itanium, Intel's 64-bit processor for servers, inH > Compaq's internal testing of its ProLiant DL590/64. The representativeG > would not go so far as to call the issue a flaw, but said the problem C > appeared to be caused by the processor. The problem crops up with A > servers running both the 733MHz and 800MHz version of the chip.0 > 9 > >[1]See footnote for Intel's definition of a *sighting*n > G > Sightings are a broad computer industry term for equipment that failsiE > to perform as expected in testing, but with no immediately apparentf
 > defects.   [snip] > [1]tH > What is a sighting? "A sighting is any issue affecting the performanceH > or reliability of an enterprise server system that is witnessed at the? > system, software and/or platform levels. Sightings are common=H > occurrences and most are root-caused to something other than a siliconF > issue. If an Intel processor or product's behaviour deviates outside? > of normal specifications, a sighting may become an erratum. "=) > http://www.theinquirer.net/14110105.htm_ > 	 > Cheers,_ > Milton  ? What a wonderful weasel word!  Has anyone notified Scott Adams?!? I wonder if it is supposed to have the same implications as the-= TV show "Sightings":  This is an extremely rare, unverified, nD irreproducible event, and the sighter may have been confused, drunk,C hallucinating, or lying through his teeth, so don't worry about it.e  @ Besides, if something actually does break, all you need to do is? reformat your hard drive, re-install your software, and reboot.T No big deal.   -- A John Santosi Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 11:01:28 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u1 Subject: Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server testsd3 Message-ID: <Or$jn4ombI7Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  X In article <1011116112115.7538A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:$ > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Milton wrote:   > A > What a wonderful weasel word!  Has anyone notified Scott Adams? A > I wonder if it is supposed to have the same implications as theM? > TV show "Sightings":  This is an extremely rare, unverified, DF > irreproducible event, and the sighter may have been confused, drunk,E > hallucinating, or lying through his teeth, so don't worry about it.H >   > 	Yeah but if it is repeatable... it exists.. and a work around= 	can be created.  Hence a new stepping.  The large problem of < 	course is now that the cat is out of the bag and "second in= 	line" news services like CNET grab it in run with it - firstiC 	line being Mike Magee of course... at the www.theinquirer.net... -r? 	then it has all the markings of a *potential* FDIV issue.  But-= 	apparently it isn't that big a deal to Dell/HP/IBM.  Perhaps : 	their customers use the machines in such a way they would 	never be at "risk."  Unlikely.v   				RobK   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:38:58 GMTb3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>h1 Subject: Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests./ Message-ID: <3BF54EA6.E3DF7FE7@cableinet.co.uk>'  
 cjt wrote: >  > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >  > > JF Mezei wrote:c > > >  > > > Milton wrote:a > > > >n_ > > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011114/tc/itanium_flunking_compaq_server_tests_1.htmlb > > > >dM > > > > Intel's Itanium processor is failing to pass Compaq Computer's stresshH > > > > tests, according to a Compaq representative, thus holding up the, > > > > release of Compaq's Itanium servers. > > >oQ > > > Does that surprise anyone ? Besides, Itanium won't power any serious CompaqrF > > > systems until 2004-2005 so current bugs/problems are irrelevant. > >hK > > the surprising thing (:-)) to me is that Compaq could come out smellingM > > better than then; > > vendors who are marketting before they test adequately.i > K > In the Windows market?  Does anybody expect thorough testing?  Would theyg	 > notice?    - you're just a cynic, cjt, but probably right.e -- n Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  h  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of v! my employers or service provider.l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 11:43:11 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a1 Subject: Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server testsD3 Message-ID: <7gyJEdzQQ4Pr@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  a In article <Or$jn4ombI7Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:v  @ > 	Yeah but if it is repeatable... it exists.. and a work around? > 	can be created.  Hence a new stepping.  The large problem of > > 	course is now that the cat is out of the bag and "second in? > 	line" news services like CNET grab it in run with it - firstsE > 	line being Mike Magee of course... at the www.theinquirer.net... - A > 	then it has all the markings of a *potential* FDIV issue.  Buta? > 	apparently it isn't that big a deal to Dell/HP/IBM.  Perhapsh< > 	their customers use the machines in such a way they would! > 	never be at "risk."  Unlikely.0  C Perhaps they have already put the machine at-risk with their choiceD? of operating system.  Compaq has two years before it matters if- Intel has fixed the chip :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:53:24 +0100A& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>8 Subject: Re: network adapters of AXPpci 33 & OpenVMS 7.2$ Message-ID: <3BF560A4.167E@c-lab.de>   Michael Joosten wrote: >  > Enrico Badella wrote:n > >c  F > Checked it also with an ancient NE2000 (with a real NS DP8390!), butC > here again, the driver seems to require PnP in order to probe andd  > initialize the card correctly. > H > Unfortunately, I just had an old WD8013 card in my bin, but perhaps atE > work there might be PnP version of a NE2000. I'll try that the nexts > days.  >   E OK, just tested it and, indeed, it WORKS with a real 'PnP' NE2000 ISA F card! In my case, it was an Accton EN1660 with a 'MPX2' (EN5025) chip.E Apparently it MUST be a PnP, otherwise the driver rejects it early ina the initialization.1  D Be careful, though, when adding more than one ISA card in the SRM. IE found out that a second card (toyed around with an ISA ATI Mach64) in F the same SRM ISA slot (not a physical!) but with different dev no, wasA not recognized by the autoconfig process. So I added the cards inoG different slots # and with different dev #, and now I have graphics anda- the ERA0: running as RE0 as ethernet adapter:w  T >>>isacfg -mk -slot 1 -dev 0 -handle DE305-AA -irq0 5 -iobase0 300 -etyp 1 -enadev 1? >>>isacfg -nk -slot 2 -dev 1 -handle ISA--VGA -etyp 1 -enadev 1h    E BTW: will there be an update for the PC164 SRM? Versions > 5.X have aoH stupid bug in the isacfg code: the table is read from offset 8000 in the> Flash ROMs last 64KB segment, but always written at f800, thus= clobbering the environment variables. Once you change the ISAcH configuration in such a board, you lose your current environment. And ifF the board was directly flashed from ARC to SRM, you will always have a@ nice message about 'ISA table corrupt' and your environment willA 'automagically' overwritten with a default ISA table. Not nice...2     --  * Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:11:10 -0800 (PST)l. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>N Subject: OpenVMS Consortium NOW!!!! was (Re: usage of new products on vms axp)@ Message-ID: <20011116151110.91547.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  * I am talking here for a long time the need1 to create an OpenVMS Consortium joining companiesd* with products and business related to OVMS  1 Process, Heroix, Raxco, Advanced Systems, Vector,e/ SRI, Geneous, Symark, Execsoft, etc... and manyl others.b  - All these companies should schedule a meetingo/ to know about the future of their respective=20"' business. I am not a company owner !!!!v  $ Should begin at www.openvms.org !=20   Regardsm   FC=20e      , --- Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote: >=20 >=20 > Jakob Erber wrote: > >=20 > > Hi All,i > >=20/ > > most of the entries in this group are aboutt > complaining about the badi4 > > destiny of VMS. Bad support from Compaq and less > and less products. But ifd5 > > companies provide attractive new products for VMS  > nobody seems to be using > > them. Examples?, > >=205 > > Due to the Java support on VMS, Beas J2EE producte > WebLogic Server is2 > > supported for VMS. Also Ionas powerfull ORB is > available for VMS. And > > others.  > >=20/ > > This products would allow for VMS not to bec! > treaded as legacy system but tom5 > > be fully integraded in a new system architecture.i > But the todays VMS/ > > community seems to consist "only" of Systemg > managers and C- or Marco > > programmers., > Not completely true. I am a VMSer AND Java > developer. I run a VMS web, > server, of course, but my language for GUI > development has been Java forf6 > several years, for exactly the reasons you state. ie > I can (and do) run2 > new Java products on VMS, but I'm not limited to > it(see, > http://alphase.com/aex/Announcement.html).3 > I think some of the COV community are as you say,  > but they (and VMS)5 > really have been treated badly since the breakup of5 > DEC. And, no soonern4 > than we adjust to one major changes in our future, > like going toi/ > Itanium, than we're hit with crap like the HP, > merger. You have tow1 > understand many of us have worked with, and yesr > loved, VMS for 20 years * > or more. We're entitled to some griping. >=20 > Don- > =20- > >=205 > > Please excuse if this sounds hard, I just want toe > provoke a bit. > >=20 > > best regards > >=20	 > > Jakob      =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DDL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Da F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazils fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Di  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:41:15 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)tH Subject: OT: Justice Department tells judge MS settlement is tough on MS& Message-ID: <9t2jfb$rr$2@joe.rice.edu>: Keywords: justice,department,microsoft,caress_on_the_wrist  ? Hopefully someone like Sun will file "amicus curiae" to provideo the judge some reality...   9    http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/tech/009960.htmeG    Justice Department tells judge that Microsoft settlement is tough on   H   "WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Justice Department sought Thursday to convinceD    the judge in the Microsoft Corp. antitrust case that its landmarkI    settlement with the software giant will help consumers and rein in thet'    company's illegal business behavior.e  I    In a 68-page court filing, Justice lawyers to defend the settlement it A    negotiated among Microsoft and nine states. Critics, includingdI    Microsoft rivals and some independent antitrust experts, have said the H    agreement is inadequate. They have the company will be able to bypass3    many of the sanctions because of vague language.c  ?    In the filing, government lawyers assured the judge that theaE    settlement ``will eliminate Microsoft's illegal practices, preventr>    recurrence of the same or similar practices and restore theB    competitive threat'' by rival companies to the dominant Windows    operating system.  F    The government also sought to clarify a part of the settlement thatI    allows Microsoft to keep secret information that might broadly violateME    the security of anti-piracy technology, which prevents the illegaltH    copying of music or movies. It is considered especially important andB    lucrative as entertainment increasingly is delivered in digital    formats.O  @    The government told the judge that Microsoft must disclose toG    competitors all the capabilities of its anti-piracy music technologyhF    under the latest version of Windows, called XP. The government saidG    those mandatory disclosures will ``makes these features available tot0    competing software and hardware developers.''  B    The government said it will require Microsoft to live up to itsB    promises through ``strong enforcement provisions'' and can seekJ    criminal penalties and civil fines if the company violates the deal..."  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:42:00 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: P/OS anyone?b3 Message-ID: <XOcimZUmiqPJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  p In article <00A0515D.C5BAAA05@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: > M > P/OS was on its drive.  Open the case and make sure everything is connectedp9 > and clean.  Something might have come loose in transit.t  A    Thanks, but I already tried that.  Maybe I'll try my other old @    solution of reheating all the solder joints on all the cards.<    Some snowy day when I'm not working too hard on my Alpha.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:07:08 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)n Subject: Re: P/OS anyone? 0 Message-ID: <00A0520E.E9F6A67E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <XOcimZUmiqPJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:eq >In article <00A0515D.C5BAAA05@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:i >>  N >> P/OS was on its drive.  Open the case and make sure everything is connected: >> and clean.  Something might have come loose in transit. >iB >   Thanks, but I already tried that.  Maybe I'll try my other oldA >   solution of reheating all the solder joints on all the cards.y= >   Some snowy day when I'm not working too hard on my Alpha.  >n  I Hmm.  Sorry to hear that.  I recall that you could purchase P/OS on RX50stH (some 50 odd floppies worth) from the DECUS library.  I don't know thereI anybody provinging that "service" anymore.  The P/OS might still be arch-c4 ived somewhere but finding 50+ RX50s will be tough.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMg            eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:48:04 -0000d3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>S Subject: Re: P/OS anyone?t/ Message-ID: <9t3jd3$pql$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>i  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A0520E.E9F6A67E@SendSpamHere.ORG...5 > In article <XOcimZUmiqPJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,s/ koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:eK > >In article <00A0515D.C5BAAA05@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG5' (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:t > >>F > >> P/OS was on its drive.  Open the case and make sure everything is	 connected < > >> and clean.  Something might have come loose in transit. > > D > >   Thanks, but I already tried that.  Maybe I'll try my other oldC > >   solution of reheating all the solder joints on all the cards. ? > >   Some snowy day when I'm not working too hard on my Alpha.  > >A >LK > Hmm.  Sorry to hear that.  I recall that you could purchase P/OS on RX50siJ > (some 50 odd floppies worth) from the DECUS library.  I don't know thereK > anybody provinging that "service" anymore.  The P/OS might still be arch-n5 > ived somewhere but finding 50+ RX50s will be tough.A  ' ftp.update.uu.se, in /pub/professional.0  H You'll need an IBM PC with DOS (or Win95/98 might work), a 1.2 MB 5 1/4" disk drive, and some disks.  J Of course, you don't need the full 50. Heck, you could probably do it with two, if you,K wrote each disk as required... the instructions recomend 80-track HD media,a IIRC.n  F Keep a hold of the disk images. Old software on the net has a habit of
 disappearing.   I Anyone know a hardware modification to make a standard 3 1/2" floppy looks like? an RX50 drive? Is an RX50 *anything* like a standard PC drive?? - 5 1/4" media is becoming scarce these days...s   -Malcolm MacArthur > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >tK >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fierysK >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbese >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:20:47 -0000i+ From: "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> # Subject: Re: Proxy Removal Problem.n& Message-ID: <3bf4e5c5$1@pull.gecm.com>   Rob,  F No problems.  You could always save the current proxies to a text fileC and generate a script to put them back in again (minus the ones youn= don't want) once the NET*PROXY.DAT files have been recreated.   D ------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------D Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.com Air Systems Groupr Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd.e  6 "Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message+ news:3bf45231.594548385@news.wcc.govt.nz...u > Tim, >a7 > Thanks, that well may be the approach I have to take.hB > Luckily it's a small Development Cluster with not too many Proxy > Accounts. B > Schedule it in the things to do one day but not just now pile... >s > Paul,o > E > There's no /default switch in remove/proxy. The DEFAULT is also theoG > account that's being proxied to, not the default proxy, which is what 6 > the /default switch is used for when adding a proxy. >  >. > Rob.3 > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:53:10 -0000, "Tim Jackson"a  > <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> wrote: > E > >When I had this problem (on V7.3) I ended up stopping the securityoB > >server, deleting the NET*PROXY.DAT files, starting the security serverH > >again and then using the AUTHORIZE CREATE/PROXY command to create newH > >empty databases.  To ensure the new files were created in the clusterH > >common system directory I had to make sure the NETPROXY and NET$PROXYF > >logical names were defined and pointing to SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] (via5 > >SYLOGICALS.COM) else the files would be created inb > >SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE].a > >e > >HTHG > >------------------ Purely Personal Opinion -------------------------rG > >Tim Jackson                                    tim.jackson@amsjv.comr > >Air Systems Group > >Alenia Marconi Systems Ltd. > >e9 > >"Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message . > >news:3bf2e5bb.501246524@news.wcc.govt.nz...
 > >> Hi Folksi > >>' > >> Running VMS 7.2 & DECNet OSI 7.2-1e3 > >> Ive got some old proxies I'm trying to delete.l > >>@ > >> There's a couple of stubborn ones that I can't get trashed.< > >> All troublesome Proxies are set to the DEFAULT Account. > >> > >> Son > >> > >> UAF> show /prox *::userx" > >>* > >>  Default proxies are flagged with (D) > >> > >> NODE1::USERXr > >>     DEFAULT > >> > >> NODE2::USERXw > >>     DEFAULT > >>	 > >> But,k > >> > >> UAF> remove /prox *::userxq> > >> %UAF-E-NAFREMERR, error removing proxy from *::userx to *F > >> -SECSRV-E-NOSUCHPROXY, no proxy record matches your specification > >> > >> ori > >># > >> UAF> remove /prox NODE1::USERXyG > >> %UAF-E-NAFREMERR, error removing proxy from LOCAL:.NODE1::USERX tom * F > >> -SECSRV-E-NOSUCHPROXY, no proxy record matches your specification > >>B > >> I know that when a User is removed the associated Proxies get removed.D > >> But I don't want to (and according to the help in Authorize you can't)  > >> remove the DEFAULT Account.B > >> The USERX Account has already been removed from this machine. > >>D > >> I've also tried adding a new proxy of the same spec, it adds it withG > >> the LOCAL. Prefix. When I then delete this it just deletes the one  > >> with the LOCAL. Prefix. > >> > >> Any help appreciated. > >>	 > >> TIA.o > >>	 > >> Rob.  > >u > >s >g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:47:08 -0500t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)# Subject: Re: Proxy Removal Problem. L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1611011347080001@user-2ivea0r.dialup.mindspring.com>  O In article <3bf2e5bb.501246524@news.wcc.govt.nz>, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz wrote:L  
 > Hi Folks > $ > Running VMS 7.2 & DECNet OSI 7.2-10 > Ive got some old proxies I'm trying to delete. > > > There's a couple of stubborn ones that I can't get trashed. 9 > All troublesome Proxies are set to the DEFAULT Account.a >  > So >  > UAF> show /prox *::userx > ' >  Default proxies are flagged with (D)  >  > NODE1::USERX
 >     DEFAULT  >  > NODE2::USERX
 >     DEFAULTo >  > But, >  > UAF> remove /prox *::userx; > %UAF-E-NAFREMERR, error removing proxy from *::userx to *nC > -SECSRV-E-NOSUCHPROXY, no proxy record matches your specificationt  E This might be a DOMAIN:. type of proxy, as opposed to a LOCAL:. one. tF DECnet-plus has some strange interactions with the proxy database, theC TCPIP local hosts database, and the naming search path.  I _almost_eA understood this a couple of months ago.  Let me check my notes...r  H If there is a TCPIP local alias when a proxy is added, the text saved inG the proxy database will be just the alias name, not the full name.  Forr example,(    UAF> ADD/PROXY DOMAIN:.A.B.C.D::* */DE will get stored with just A for the hostname, if there is TCPIP aliasSH linking the IP address to the name A.  (TCPIP configuration does this byI default for the node being configured.)  Then the proxy you will see will( be something like9    A::*           * (D)  E (On our systems, AUTHORIZE never includes the DOMAIN:. prefix when itr displays proxies.)  F If another cluster node shares the proxy database, but does not have a@ TCPIP alias for the node in question, it will NOT recognize this< "truncated" domain proxy, and will not be able to remove it.  ! Which TCPIP stack?  What version?n  " If UCX/TCPIP, what's the output of    $ UCX SHOW HOST/LOCAL p ?e  G It found it best to replace the default TCPIP local host entries, whicha looked like this:r   Host address    Host namee   1.2.3.4         node, NODE   With entries like this:    Host address    Host nameA  ( 1.2.3.4         NODE.ABC.XYZ, node, NODE  J As I understand it, the first "host name" listed is the real name, and theG others are aliases.  The first one is returned when you do a reverse IPdJ lookup, which DECnet-plus does when it uses a proxy in the presence of the@ DOMAIN:. namespace.  For proxies to behave as expected, you want8 DECnet-plus to get the full name, not a shortened alias.  E Also, make sure your TCPIP local hosts database is then same on everyrJ cluster node, which is not the default behaviour if you have more than one@ system disk.  (I'm assuming you have the "normal" situation of a cluster-wide proxy database.)h  > While we're in the neighborhood, what does your system say to   6    $ MCR NCL show session control transport precedence   ?e  D And what address towers does DECNET_REGISTER show for the node(s) inG question in the LOCAL namespace (assuming you're using this namespace)?i  ; All this stuff interacts stragely, and problems can lead toi> backtranslation failures and strange failures of proxy logins.     > or >   > UAF> remove /prox NODE1::USERXF > %UAF-E-NAFREMERR, error removing proxy from LOCAL:.NODE1::USERX to *C > -SECSRV-E-NOSUCHPROXY, no proxy record matches your specificationr > H > I know that when a User is removed the associated Proxies get removed.H > But I don't want to (and according to the help in Authorize you can't) > remove the DEFAULT Account.1? > The USERX Account has already been removed from this machine.r > F > I've also tried adding a new proxy of the same spec, it adds it withD > the LOCAL. Prefix. When I then delete this it just deletes the one > with the LOCAL. Prefix.r  I Without knowing more details, I'd say any proxy without a LOCAL prefix isoJ a DOMAIN proxy, so your TCPIP stack and your DECnet-plus naming rules come! into play.  See discussion above.a   -- r Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:46:08 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>i< Subject: Re: Secondary and/or Alternative OPCOM output setup( Message-ID: <3BF55EE7.ED7EEBCE@ohio.edu>   Perhaps worth an experiment:    $ DEFINE /USER SYS$COMMAND TTA0: $ REPLY /ENABLE[=(classes)]   $ DEFINE /USER SYS$COMMAND OPA0: $ REPLY /DISABLE[=(classes)]   I have not tried this.  #                                 RDPe     Malcolm wrote:  = > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messageR* > news:3BF300D6.6F501E8C@pressenter.com...? > > I have a need to set up an secondary console on some ES40s.a > >s > >cJ > > The first serial port (OPA0:) is connected to PCM. ANd that's well andI > > good, but I'd also like be able to direct OPCOM messages to the tta0:aI > > port as well.. Nothing give this old-fashioned System Manager, a warm 6 > > fuzzy feeling as seeing OPCOM messages on a VT420. > >bK > > I know I can log in on the term, do a "reply/enable" and be good to go.rI > > But sometimes I forget to do that, and messages are displayed. So I'mtE > > working on somehow getting this to kick in automatically on boot.n > >m" > $ DEFINE /USER SYS$COMMAND TTA0: > $ REPLY /ENABLE[=(classes)]  >  > >( > > Second:e > >hK > > On a PWS 500au, I'd like to set up a VT420 to the tta0 port and have itwB > > be the console, instead of the graphics device. But still haveK > > DECwindows run properly.... It seems when I set the "console" serial, Is; > > don't get graphics to start properly... I want both....2 > >r > > Any ideas? >e > Nope, not on that one.N > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6538/6538pro_005.html might help.L > From what it says, all you have to do is run SYS$MANAGER:DECW$STARTUP.COM.	 > But you3  > may have already tried that... >= > -Malcolm.D >= > > Thanks in advance, > >a
 > > Lyndon > > --K > > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my.
 > > employer.3 > >3 > >3L > > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > > have  > > to look at the horse's butt.   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:26:21 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org: Message-ID: <xc3J7.15$dk.8608@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  3 David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messageu& news:3BF477A2.3060203@tsoft-inc.com...   ...a  % > This is getting enormously amusing.e  * Try not to get the drool on your keyboard.   >t >a9 > Let's see, an entity can be "an expression of approval,sJ > support,solidarity of intent, even of pre-attack encouragement", but notH > be guilty.  So, why is Terry Nichols in jail?  Placed there by a court	 > of law.n  + Because he *helped*.  There's a difference.d   >MA > And an entity can have "intent to engage in similar post-attackhD > activity", but should be left alone until it actually does attack?  L A different question which is irrelevant to the issue (the one we're talking: about - duh) of whether he's guilty for the attack itself.   >`$ > Ok, Bill, how about a little quiz? >cI > It's 1943, the US pilot is patroling the South Pacific in his shiny neweH > P-38 Lightning, and comes upon a Zero, complete with the rising sun on > the wing.e  L Different situation:  a declared war against an identifiable enemy state andI the military thereof, rather than a pseudo-war (far more like the 'war on H drugs' than a war by any accepted international definition) against someK people who we consider terrorists but who may or may not have been involveda- in the action we're supposedly responding to.   G This isn't rocket science, folks:  it's elementary analysis.  Try to do L better next time, if you can manage to think at some level above your balls.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:47:16 GMTd. From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org> Message-ID: <8w3J7.19278$RG1.9953370@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>   > JF Mezei writes:G > > ... The military has very old thinking when it comes to technology.n
 Remember thatfE > > they used to be the sole users of computers and were far ahead ofr everyone@ > > else. But nowadays, the military is generally behind private corporations inm > > terms of technology. ...   Rob Young writes::? > Or so you think.  We know a bit differently.  Depends on whateC > technology you are describing.  How about stealth technology thatdD > the CIA allowed Lockheed Martin to incorporate into the F117A from > the SR71? , > Does that count as a good counter-example?  G Huh?  Lockheed's Skunkworks designed and built both the SR71 and F117A,aL using technologies that they invented.  CIA was merely the sponsor & user ofB the SR71.  CIA had no reason or power to keep USAF from buying theJ Skunkwork's newest concept 17 years later.   So that's not a good example.E I recommend the book "Skunk Works", ghost written for retired manager  Ben Rich by Leo Janos.  C The key breakthrough in designing the F117A was invented in Russia,nD where a radar mathematician worked out a way to compute actual radarE reflections from any angle (couldn't be computed before).  That first.< method only understood faceted shapes, so F117A was designed7 without any curves anywhere despite its inefficiencies.dE Later reflection algorithms could handle curves, so the B-2 and latern. designs went back to using aerodynamic curves.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:43:32 -0500 # From: "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com>jN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <9t3565$707$1@license1.unx.sas.com>l  L Can we tank this thread, please?  I don't really want to put IPF, Compaq, orJ Shannon in my subject filters, and many of you actually make pretty usefulG posts to the news group about COMP.SYS.DEC topics so I'd rather not hitw author killfile buttons either.M  I But this thread has been hashed out repeatedly in a zillion politics- and G current-events-related news groups... how 'bout picking this one up andi( finishing each other off somewhere else?   TIA.   -- Tom Cole, tom.cole@sas.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:00:02 -0500r* From: Trent Worthington <fuckoff@none.nul>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <up6avt00v6mbf4dbf8ugrsim9tv3rhkvdc@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:19:00 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   [...]m  I >Knuckle-draggers don't consider such differences significant, of course.t  F Bill, perhaps you should stick to something you know, like how to makeF bongs out of tennis ball cans, or angel dust out of dutch cleanser, or@ how to lurk in stair wells to catch a few up-skirt-beaver-shots.F In the mean time, pull that ring finger out of your ass, sniff it, and5 type out something else for the audience to laugh at.    TIA.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:36:31 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <i4jdg+borX+a@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <3BF42333.C65070AF@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Trent Worthington wrote:/ >> HE ADMITTED IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!1l >  > M > Sorry, but admitting being involved in a crime doesn't make you guilty in aDP > real court of law. Consider that the US justice system declared OJ not guilty D > because of reasonable doubt, even though every one knew he did it. > H > If the USA continues to refuse to reveal its evidence because it is soH > secret/national security, then that evidence is moot since it won't beN > presented in a court of law and without hard evidence, they will have to set > Bin Laden free.1  G    Acts of war don't require court verdicts before the government takesd"    action.  Never did, never will.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 08:38:28 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler))N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <2tPWxm5KzyBF@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  v In article <nI2J7.45235$S4.4107213@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net> writes:  L > Um,  the US constitution does not apply to bin laden or any other *foreign > national*.  D    I'm no fan of Bin Laden, but where does the Constitution proclaim    this limitation?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:59:31 -0500e* From: Trent Worthington <fuckoff@none.nul>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <ad7avtkss5p0gdlvd62suogvd50ufau5as@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:26:21 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   > 4 >David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message' >news:3BF477A2.3060203@tsoft-inc.com...z >u >... > & >> This is getting enormously amusing. > + >Try not to get the drool on your keyboard.l  E Not everyone has the problems you experience in every-day life, Bill.eE Consider spending your weeks allowance on the purchase of a drool-cupr2 if it helps your situation with a sloppy keyboard.   >> >>: >> Let's see, an entity can be "an expression of approval,K >> support,solidarity of intent, even of pre-attack encouragement", but not I >> be guilty.  So, why is Terry Nichols in jail?  Placed there by a courtc
 >> of law. > , >Because he *helped*.  There's a difference.  D Bin Laden planned, and had his merry band of fuckheads carry out hisF reprehensible mission. Why are you such a bin Laden/Taliban apologist?   >>B >> And an entity can have "intent to engage in similar post-attackE >> activity", but should be left alone until it actually does attack?I >dM >A different question which is irrelevant to the issue (the one we're talkingn; >about - duh) of whether he's guilty for the attack itself.   B Already answered, yet you conveniently don't wish to face the fact' that he admitted he was behind attacks.n    = >This isn't rocket science, folks:  it's elementary analysis.   $ Indeed. He admitted his involvement.   >  Try to doM >better next time, if you can manage to think at some level above your balls.n  F There there, no need to cry. You've just met someone much smarter thanD you - again. If you want to associate with people at your level, whyA not try the patients at the severe head injury unit at your localu	 hospital?b   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 14:39:02 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org6 Message-ID: <20011116143902.28778.qmail@gacracker.org>  @ On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Trent Worthington <fuckoff@none.nul> wrote:G >On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:19:00 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>s >wrote:  >> >[...] >NJ >>Knuckle-draggers don't consider such differences significant, of course. > G >Bill, perhaps you should stick to something you know, like how to make G >bongs out of tennis ball cans, or angel dust out of dutch cleanser, oroA >how to lurk in stair wells to catch a few up-skirt-beaver-shots. G >In the mean time, pull that ring finger out of your ass, sniff it, andn6 >type out something else for the audience to laugh at.  I Here Troll, have some peanuts 0o0 0o0 0o0 I hope you're allergic to them.e     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:04:46 -0500h* From: Trent Worthington <fuckoff@none.nul>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <6kaavt8ga9jjdcunfbasiu6gkdsfeh70id@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:16:40 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >y6 >Trent Worthington <fuckoff@none.nul> wrote in message3 >news:uap7vtk10qm3scq8fodo2m46659o86h0j4@4ax.com...e >b >... >1H >> Did you even read the article, you hapless, retarded, bleeding-heart, >> Taliban apologist?: >tL >Yes, I did, and unlike you I understood what it said (and what I said about >it).o  D Sure, that's why you snipped out all the words that pointed out what an idiot you are.T  9 >Attitudes like yours help make terrorism understandable.D   PKB, Mr. Taliban apologist.   C You're incorrect, but it would seem that you've grown used to beingA so.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:06:46 GMTe- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>ON Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111160958300.8088-100000@world.std.com>e  % On 13 Nov 2001, Paul Repacholi wrote:b  8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >hN > > It is intuitively obvious that IBM is a big beneficiary of Compaq's recent > > strategic decisions. >a: > But, alas, they don't sell Alphas or VMS in most places. >aF > > As a longtime Alpha advocate I too was dismayed about the decisionG > > to scuttle the architecture. Especially in light of the fact that IhG > > was doing Alpha futures pitches to CPQ audiences as recently as oneAG > > month pre-Trees (I wasn't alone, there's plenty of Alpha marketeerse< > > sporting albumin on their countenances these days, too). >:I > But we will have to deal with the liars who did this for the indefinate.	 > future.n >rE > > Rightly or wrongly, Alpha's dead. Get over it. No amount of 20-20s$ > > hindsight will change this fact. >hE > > I continue to maintain that a decade of marketing malfeasance andyG > > stupid strategy tricks ensured Alpha's ultimate oblivion. And whilen< > > I'm not a math major, I can do the math when it comes toG > > apportioning an annual ~$250M R&D and infrastructure cost across ani9 > > annual run rate of perhaps half a million processors.e > & > If you believe their numbers at all.  I It is difficult to break out exact numbers from CPQ financial statements, @ but an approximation is possible. The $250M figure is not at allH unreasonable. Based on recent IDC data, the Alpha run rate appears to beJ significantly lower than the 100K systems per year I postulated. If IDC isI right (and they have folks who count boxes for a living) and if the $250MtI figure is anywhere near accurate, the overhead associated with each Alphal: chip Compaq shipped is higher than the $500 figure I used.  " >BTW, does anyone know the name of> > 'the engineer' who said that Alpha would lose it performance > advantage yet? >t   Yep. David Fenwick.f  E > Alpha is gone. Even with all the money etc, the time lost is fatal.a( > Now watch T64 and VMS go the same way. >o  H I wouldn't be investing much stock in Tru64 futures, but VMS will likelyE be in a stronger position once the IPF port is complete (at least onec& cross-compiler is up and running now).  J But it all comes back to marketing. Instead of shooting the messenger, why' not focus on the source of the problem?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:11:03 GMTE- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>SN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111161008400.8088-100000@world.std.com>e  ( On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, David Mathog wrote:   > Paul Repacholi wrote:o >a > > G > > Alpha is gone. Even with all the money etc, the time lost is fatal.v* > > Now watch T64 and VMS go the same way. >dJ > And given their contribution to the bottom line, watch Compaq swirl down
 > the hole > right along with them. >o  H I can't comment on Tru64 due to the proposed "converged enterprise UNIX"I which allegedly will result from the proposed HP acquisition (the fate ofoE which is questionable at best) but the loss of VMS revenue and PROFIT 4 would not be an uplifting experience for Compaq! ;-}   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:14:26 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111161012120.8088-100000@world.std.com>S  ) On 13 Nov 2001, Vance R. Haemmerle wrote:e  > > In article <JOSH7.17754$I6.4371753@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,5 > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  > > N > >Rightly or wrongly, Alpha's dead. Get over it. No amount of 20-20 hindsight > >will change this fact.D >FK >   Terry, as Alpha and Tru64 and other Compaq differentiation goes so goes  > the customer interest.  G Agreed. Note that I confined my comments to the Alpha CPU, *not* Tru64,  VMS, or other differentiators.  2 If Compaq, and/or any company stupid enough to buyL > it, goes commodity and me-too and leaves research and development to IntelK > and Microsoft then there goes the market's interest in hearing about whatt@ > Compaq is doing and there goes the market for your newsletter.  9 True indeed. There is no market for Shannon Knows Wintel.    >kG >   Maybe you should start thinking about writing about the industry in @ > general and less about Compaq specific stuff as that dwindles.  E Umm, the thought has crossed my mind. And more and more frequently of0 late.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:19:25 GMTe- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>.N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111161014590.8088-100000@world.std.com>n  & On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Alan Greig wrote:  F > On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:45:05 +0100, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> > wrote: >d >s > >SF > >3.  You said "About two years ago, several senior technologists andJ > >strategists in Compaq=92s High Performance Systems Divisions decided toA > >take an objective and soul-searching look at the 'Whither=97orsL > >Wither=97Alpha?' question."   I find this very odd because the well-know= naG > >report which compared Alpha to IA64 and concluded that Alpha was fartI > >superior actually has a date stamp of 11 Oct 1999.  I find it very odd=J > >that a report extolling the virtues of Alpha should be released at thatI > >time and at the same time there are questions arising about the futuretF > >of Alpha.  (I believe the report escaped into the public arena manyD > >months, by which time - if your statement is correct - Compaq had> > >already concluded that the future for Alpha was "limited".) >   F To the best of my knowledge CPQ began reconsidering Alpha in 1H00. TheF decision to scuttle the architecture apparently was finalized in, say,> November Y2K. Weapons-free status was not granted until 2CQ01.    E > And that's from around the time Compaq junked Windows 2000 on AlphayF > *after* having completed the port. Many thought this signaled CompaqH > had taken the decision to phase out Alpha down the line and Compaq was$ > being battered by irate customers.    I The cancellation of Win64 on Alpha can be laid at the feet of Eckhard and = Enrico, who killed the Sculptor project at the eleventh hour.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:26:13 GMTn- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>sN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgC Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111161024350.8088-100000@world.std.com>     On 16 Nov 2001, Rob Young wrote:  c > In article <4g7Nw4oSkjlQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:m >t > >hE > > 	Read Bamford's latest book.  The NSA - due to fallout from FrankrK > > 	Church's investigations in the late 60s into spying on U.S. citizens -  >u > 	Make that early 70s.  >r  F Both of Bamford's works are pretty darned good... the original "PuzzleG Palace" had more technical content than the recent book, but the latteriH tome does shed light on some Stupid Political Tricks of the first order.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 10:54:23 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)vN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <KNTbSaG4YJ6T@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  o In article <8w3J7.19278$RG1.9953370@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>, "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com> writes:3 >> JF Mezei writes:nH >> > ... The military has very old thinking when it comes to technology. > Remember thatwF >> > they used to be the sole users of computers and were far ahead of
 > everyoneA >> > else. But nowadays, the military is generally behind private  > corporations ine >> > terms of technology. ...o >  > Rob Young writes:n@ >> Or so you think.  We know a bit differently.  Depends on whatD >> technology you are describing.  How about stealth technology thatE >> the CIA allowed Lockheed Martin to incorporate into the F117A fromi >> the SR71?- >> Does that count as a good counter-example?n > I > Huh?  Lockheed's Skunkworks designed and built both the SR71 and F117A,bN > using technologies that they invented.  CIA was merely the sponsor & user ofD > the SR71.  CIA had no reason or power to keep USAF from buying theL > Skunkwork's newest concept 17 years later.   So that's not a good example.G > I recommend the book "Skunk Works", ghost written for retired manager  > Ben Rich by Leo Janos. > E > The key breakthrough in designing the F117A was invented in Russia,iF > where a radar mathematician worked out a way to compute actual radarG > reflections from any angle (couldn't be computed before).  That first > > method only understood faceted shapes, so F117A was designed9 > without any curves anywhere despite its inefficiencies.sG > Later reflection algorithms could handle curves, so the B-2 and latern0 > designs went back to using aerodynamic curves.   	Curves like SR71 has. >   ? 	Sorry.  I screwed that up.  It may have actually been Northrup.G 	that got SR71 technology from the CIA... for the B2 but I'm relying onmG 	my flakey memory of the show I watched the other night for the second   	time.  The RussianaD 	author's work was actually discovered by a retired 80 year old thatC 	was/is friends with the principal designer at Lockheed.  He turnedoC 	him on to the obscure work that the Russians didn't deem importanth 	enough to classify.   	Some details here:a  5 http://www.afa.org/magazine/June2001/0601stealth.htmln  O Pyotr Ufimtsev, a Russian mathematician, laid the groundwork for modern stealthhN when he published a paper in the 1960s describing a new method for calculatingJ Radar Cross Section across a large surface. The Soviet Union showed littleJ interest, but when the paper was translated years later, it was noticed byN Denys Overholser, a Lockheed Martin "Skunk Works" employee. Overholser came upH with a computer program called "Echo 1" which could predict the RCS of a faceted aircraft.e    @ 	And at that, that isn't quite right.  Overholser in the TV show@ 	is pictured with his arm around his friend and gives him credit/ 	for finding the work.  Great story all around.f   				Robl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:54:58 -0500t; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>tN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org$ Message-ID: <3bf544df$1@news.si.com>  G >If the USA continues to refuse to reveal its evidence because it is soeG >secret/national security, then that evidence is moot since it won't be I >presented in a court of law and without hard evidence, they will have toe seta >Bin Laden free.  J If he gets tried, it will be in a military court where secret evidence can9 be presented and yet not made know to the general public.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comvA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com.= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:58:39 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org: Message-ID: <3BbJ7.3023$4m.229537@news2.aus1.giganews.com>  8 Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message= news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111160958300.8088-100000@world.std.com...    ...o  L > But it all comes back to marketing. Instead of shooting the messenger, why) > not focus on the source of the problem?s  J If you couched your pronouncements as messages from Compaq ("Compaq claimsL that...") rather than endorsements ("This appears eminently reasonable..."),= then you wouldn't be needing to duck anywhere nearly as much.b  H The source of the problem is certainly Compaq and the actions it's takenL that should be shoved right back up its rear end, but those who aid and abetL it in its perfidious endeavors won't be forgotten either:  there's plenty of outrage to spread around.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:23:06 -0500g; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org$ Message-ID: <3bf54b77$1@news.si.com>  L >I keep hearing that alpha was losing ground to Intel ... if you look at allJ >the recent Itanic problems, what kind of time frame were they using to do >the analysis with, 20 years?l  1 Way to go, Bob!  A mixed-case paragraph!  Thanks!r -- dA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.compA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comn= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventt< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:25:00 +0000 4 From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org. Message-ID: <3BF54BEC.379935BA@baesystems.com>   Brian Tillman wrote: > I > >If the USA continues to refuse to reveal its evidence because it is sokI > >secret/national security, then that evidence is moot since it won't berK > >presented in a court of law and without hard evidence, they will have tol > setn > >Bin Laden free. > L > If he gets tried, it will be in a military court where secret evidence can; > be presented and yet not made know to the general public.s  6 Or a Northern Alliance court.  Who knows what evidence0 they will accept.  Documents containing planning details may have been found. -- h7 _______________________________________________________m+ Andrew Swallow (7605) 2225   Cowes site, UKi andrew.swallow@baesystems.comw   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:47:20 GMTo3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>6N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3BF55063.302F9FF5@cableinet.co.uk>K   GreyCloud wrote:  4 > G > It isn't what is advanced but more politically damaging that makes itv > highly classified.  H you mean, it might contradict the constitutional rights of USA citizens? Something like that?   -- w Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  -  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of B! my employers or service provider.m   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 12:32:14 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)tN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <pk25q6eoJTXm@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  e In article <3BF55063.302F9FF5@cableinet.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> writes:o >  >  > GreyCloud wrote: >    >>  H >> It isn't what is advanced but more politically damaging that makes it >> highly classified.- > J > you mean, it might contradict the constitutional rights of USA citizens? > Something like that? >   > 	Not really.  Can you cite one that you have in mind?  Cut and 	paste please.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:04:21 GMT:' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>e! Subject: Re: Using vfork and exitn- Message-ID: <3BF50ED5.C4F93675@theblakes.com>7   Paul Dembry wrote:  L > According to the DEC C RTL manual, exit() is supposed to return control toM > wherever vfork() was called, similar to what a successful exec() call does.k  I Where does it say that? Remember, vfork() doesn't create a child, its thes exec() call which does that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:03:09 -0500p  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: VMS Crash5 Message-ID: <1011116115229.7538B-100000@Ives.egh.com>v  , On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Robert Deininger wrote:  C > In article <1011114143943.2914B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santosh > <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:c >  > D > > In the 99% case, when I'm shutting down a cluster node, it is toI > > load an ECO or for minor hardware reasons, such as re-routing a powereH > > cable or swapping out a tape drive, and the system will only be downF > > a few minutes.  Since I have 3 voting nodes, I don't have to worryH > > about cluster quorum.  I could stop all apps that are using a servedC > > disk (on the other two nodes), remove any installed images, andaG > > dismount the disks before rebooting, and then remount the disks anduC > > restart the apps after, but it is *much* easier to just let theaF > > served disks go into mount-verification if either of the other twoH > > nodes hits them while the serving node is down.  MSCP-serving startsD > > up very early in the boot process, so the disks come back pretty	 > > fast.t > K > This is what I consider the most "normal" kind of cluster transition.  IflI > a node is only going down for a few minutes, just do the reboot.  Mount I > verification is your friend.  Even if you lose quorum without the node,k  E I actually said "Mount verification is your friend" in an early drafttF of this post.  Great minds think alike!  (Believe it or not, I do edit" and proof-read most my posts.  ;-)  L > it's typically less than 2 or 3 minutes before the vote comes back.  UsingK > REMOVE_NODE, or simulating its effects by hand, is more trouble than it's  > worth in many cases. >  > D > > Each system has a local system disk and at least one other localD > > disk, and there is no shared storage.  (Do the turbochannel SCSI; > > interfaces in an Alpha 3000-300 support shared SCSI?)  e > G > Definitely not supported.  Probably wouldn't even work since the SCSIe= > interface and/or driver likely doesn't support target mode.i > L > If you need shared SCSI on a turbochannel alpha system, the only supportedL > way is using a KZTSA module.  They were pretty expensive when current, dueH > to their excellent performance, so they aren't really plentiful.  I'veL > snagged one; when I find another, I'll be able to tell you for certain how( > shared SCSI works on DEC 3000 systems.  K I'll watch Ebay for one of these.  The main reason for keeping the 3000-300iG around is as a third voting node, so we can shut down either the VAX orIH the other alpha without losing the whole cluster.  However, with nothingD shared, we are keeping our SYSUAF's and queue databases on each nodeF (inhomogenous cluster), so we don't have to rely on a single node.  WeD could put everything on the Alpha 1200 (90% usage, give that all theC votes, run the (only) queue manager there, server SYSUAF, etc., but G then we would be absolutely dependent on it.  With shared SCSI we could1F make both alphas server the critical files and not be dependent on any single one of them...c  @ Another reason we keep the 3000-300 around is so we can test VMSB upgrades.  (Upgrade one system for testing purposed, while keeping@ the other one at the version most of our customers are running.)D In fact, I'm probably going to upgrade the 3000-300 to VMS V7.3 this weekend.   > -- d > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comh   -- e John Santoss Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 12:35:30 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)mE Subject: Re: VMS debug image runs OK but nocheck, check version crash:3 Message-ID: <77pUlFIG$jHk@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  p In article <7042227b.0111150905.199e056a@posting.google.com>, pearsonb@windows-devel.com (Brian Pearson) writes:@ > Here's my dilema: I have a VMS EXE that crashes with an accessA > violation when compiled with check and nocheck (in other words,nE > nodebug) versions. When I compile and link a debug version, it runs G > perfectly. This EXE dials out to remote location, hooks into a remote-E > display and presents the display back to us, at the central office.rD > The EXE does lots of fun things like logical IO to change terminal? > characteristics, etc. The problems started when we upgrade toP/ > OpenVMS/VAX Version 7.2. Here's my questions:  > C > 1. Anyone experiences this problem after upgrading to OpenVMS/VAXy > Version 7.2. > D > 2. Anyone have experience debugging an nondebug version of an EXE. > @ > 3. Access violation usually implies memory read/write problemsE > (example, off the end of an array or to address 0). Anybody know ofrD > any other access violations associated with devices or logical IO.  8 I've seen this type of behavior with C programs where a 7 subroutine overwrites the call frame because it writes e= past the end of a char array.  Nodebug versions will explode. 8 Debug versions will be OK, because the placement of the  subroutine data is different.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:13:18 -0000u From: sword7@speakeasy.org  Subject: Re: VMS emulator needed/ Message-ID: <tvalpu4p687qd3@corp.supernews.com>n    Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote:D > Besides Charon there are two others that I know of in development.= > Bob Supnik has started one to include in his simh series ofyA > emulators, and Tim Stark has started one to include in his TS10qB > series of emulators.  Neither is yet functional (mostly problems* > figuring out how to emulate MSCP disks).  H Yeah, I finally get VMS further more than before because I realized thatC Set Controller Characteristics Command must give credits to VMS to aD continue to process.  With no credits given, initialization stalled.@ After I fixed it, VMS finally issued "Get Unit Status" to attach disk units....   -- Tim Stark   -- m, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:12:58 +0100a2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)D Subject: Re: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading ...; Message-ID: <3bf4d89a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   2 Malcolm (malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk) wrote:/ > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote...h* > > this is posted on tru64 and zdnet ...  > [...]rJ > > The talent pool is indeed growing, according to Smith, but he believesC > > that most MCSEs are not competent enough to provide adequate ore7 > > authoritative business systems consulting services.r >1
 > I agree ;-)6 > K > My experience of those with MCSEs is that they are inflexible. They can'tF > think out of the MCSE box...  8 http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000213   :-))   cu,8   Martin -- sG                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmerQ4 Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK the Borg have proper       |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/u; networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 09:42:50 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)@ Subject: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111160942.57dea4a5@posting.google.com>g  D If IBM bought Compaq they could use either alpha or power or a combo; to run VMS and rule the high end ... linux is not high end!o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:47:42 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>gD Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011116104611.00a86400@raptor.psccos.com>  + At 10:42 AM 11/16/2001, Bob Ceculski wrote:rE >If IBM bought Compaq they could use either alpha or power or a comboc< >to run VMS and rule the high end ... linux is not high end!  ) ..and pigs could be taught to fly <grin>.o  M Do you REALLY think they would give up their flagship midrange system (OS400)tM in favor of VMS?  Remember, IBM originally marketed that as the "VAX-Killer".u  K IBM buying CPQ would be about the worst scenario from VMS's standpoint thatc could occur.     ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+eI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       | I | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |AI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |uI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |eI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:59:32 -0500 - From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>tD Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!+ Message-ID: <sbf50dc7.056@AAASMTA.aaas.org>c  I Alpha is already gone. IBM won't be doing anything with that - which is =   fine, Power is a great platform.  J As for a VMS port to Power - you're more likely to see a discount on IBM =L services to migrate to one of their other offerings. They already have two =+ non-Unix OSes, why would they want a third?a  E I could see them wanting the handheld division, Compaq's server and =aL desktop marketshare, maybe rape Tru64 for a tool or two to put in AIX, and =! maybe even keep Tandem around.=20o  J In the end though, I doubt IBM will we the savior of VMS. Still, if HPaq =K doesn't happen, Compaq's future isn't looking too bright. Better IBM buys =yL it and declares EOL in 10 years than Compaq closes up shop and is sold off =L in pieces and it's gone in an instant.  Is CA in the market for a hardware =# and software company at the moment?e  A >>> Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> 11/16/2001 12:42:50 PM >>>tD If IBM bought Compaq they could use either alpha or power or a combo; to run VMS and rule the high end ... linux is not high end!e   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 12:38:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)hD Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!3 Message-ID: <foEN2cm+y41k@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <sbf50dc7.056@AAASMTA.aaas.org>, "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> writes:e  L > As for a VMS port to Power - you're more likely to see a discount on IBM =N > services to migrate to one of their other offerings. They already have two =- > non-Unix OSes, why would they want a third?o  ; Which of OS/400, MVS, VM, VSA and ACP are you discounting ?1  ? Note that the Tandem contract with Sabre will _still_ leave ACPh running there.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:52:59 -0500e* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>D Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!) Message-ID: <3BF5608B.3020302@compaq.com>    Bob Ceculski wrote:bF > If IBM bought Compaq they could use either alpha or power or a combo= > to run VMS and rule the high end ... linux is not high end!i >   G The problem would be with compilers.  We don't have a Power target for wA GEM and with most of the compiler folks heading off to Intel, it nF wouldn't likely happen.  So unless IBM has a BLISS and MACRO compiler ) lying around that generates Power code...e   -- S John Reagane' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader4   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2001 12:53:17 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)-D Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!3 Message-ID: <c1LIKUNmyVzt@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  [ In article <sbf50dc7.056@AAASMTA.aaas.org>, "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> writes:eK > Alpha is already gone. IBM won't be doing anything with that - which is =s" > fine, Power is a great platform. > L > As for a VMS port to Power - you're more likely to see a discount on IBM =N > services to migrate to one of their other offerings. They already have two =- > non-Unix OSes, why would they want a third?s >   < 	Ummmm.... maybe for the same reason SGI* or Sun would enjoy@ 	having VMS.  Heck... I'd even take it off their hands.  PerhapsA 	someone could help me get started on a creative finance package.e  = 	After all.... if the profits were HALF those widely reporteds9 	I could struggle along with mortgage and whatnot even attD 	that rate of return.  Shoot.... I'd probably spend $2 or $3 millionC 	on an annual mortgage and stick the other $298 million in the bank-B 	every year (assuming that is the correct HALVING of VMS profits).   				Robl    L *  Poor - sad, sad, SGI.  At least their stock bounced back from FIFTY centsH    a share and their market cap has returned to a somewhat stratosphericJ    (for SGI)  $367 million dollars.  Of course their third quarter profitsL    were still disappointing... -$28 million (in the hole).  But a lot better    than it has been!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:04:26 +0100 2 From: Berger Harald <hotline@harryworld.dydns.org>= Subject: Re: VMS/RMS - destroyed sequential files - NEED HELPs8 Message-ID: <m9s9vtsrv601beacalqafvfv3m8uqq3a00@4ax.com>   Part 2 of the test:n  7 when dismounting the other disk: the error is the same.   1 when using the shadow-set disk as standalone disky= i got also the same QIO error.... but when ther were someting:D wrong with the hardware... why there are no errors an DKB0 od DKB100
 or DSA501 ???i  2 i think that the problem is a sysgen parameters...  o        , On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 02:43:51 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   8 >If backup generates errors, I suspect something smelly. > M >If you have good/full control over the system, I would consider removing oneeO >drive from the showset and then testing the other drive (still in shadow set). K >You could then mount the second drive independanly and test that one too. e1 >Perhaps one drive is OK ad the other is corrupt.d >nM >If you find that one drive is faulty and the other is good, you could modifydO >that drive (to invalidate its membership to the shadow set), and then recreatenL >the shadow set with only the good drive and later on add the bad drive (you >might want to reformat it). >iK >before you do that, you might want to do a DUMP/BLOCK of the file multiplerB >times and see if that generates a error at a consistent location.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:53:57 -0700a! From: "Casey" <nospam@nospam.com>F! Subject: Wanted: Alphaserver 2100 ) Message-ID: <3bf54416$1@news.nucleus.com>s  8 We are looking for an Alphaserver configured as follows: Dual 5/250 mhz processorsn 512 meg RAMn0 Single channel raid controller and 7> 4.3 gb HDD 20 gig tape drivea Open VMS  = If you have a line on one please contact me at (403) 508-6055.   Thanks!!   Casey Pechet
 Wired Advancey   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:50:21 -0500 ; From: Robert DiRosario <robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>R# Subject: Re: Wanted: Small MicroVAXI- Message-ID: <3BF535BD.DB3F23ED@gsfc.nasa.gov>4  A I knew NetBSD had a SCSI driver for the VS2000, but I didn't knowcD someone wrote a VMS driver.  If you don't want to boot off of a SCSIB device do you still need to change the firmware?  Does VMS need to( get a list of devices from the firmware?  C I have a pair of VS2000's at home and added an RD54 to the one witht@ the color option and 14 Megs of ram. Yesterday I picked up a DECI monitor for it.  Can I install VMS on the VS2000 from an Infoserver 1000,iA or from another VAX?  I have a full, non hobbyist, 7.0 CD-ROM set-D at home.  (It's my understanding that the VS2000 uses a non-standard TK50.)   Robert       Christopher Smith wrote:   > > -----Original Message-----< > > From: Robert DiRosario [mailto:rdirosario@starpower.net] >CA > > A VS2000 might be a poor choice.  It is slow, can only take av > > maximum ofF > > 14 Megs of RAM, using a DEC memory board, and can only hold one RDH > > (MFM) disk drive.  One additional RD drive can be connected using anJ > > external expansion box.  The largest drive it will support is an RD54,A > > about 160 Megs, and quite slow compared to newer SCSI drives.a > L > Actually, they will accept two half-space drives internally.  Having takenH > several apart, I see no reason that -- given the proper cable -- these1 > couldn't both be half-height "MFM" type drives.  > D > Of course, the RD54 being the largest "MFM" drive made, AFAIR, twoI > half-height drives would likely not solve the capacity problem.  Also IeN > believe the 160M number is unformatted, and the useable space is, of course, > less.u >.C > On the other hand, see the comment about the SCSI driver below...e >u
 > >  The onlysJ > > load/backup device it will take is a TK50 tape drive.  There is NO VMSH > > support for any type of SCSI devices.  You would need to find VMS onJ > > TK50 tapes or find someone to copy standalone backup  and the VMS save > > sets onto tape.h > 2 > I just happen to have most of VMS 5.5 on tk50 ;) >fH > .. and to add to what you say, Wolfgang Moeller (I hope I spelled thatM > right) has written a SCSI driver for the machine, which should allow you torK > attach disks, tapes, and perhaps even cd-roms.  I have meant to try it onsL > one of mine for a while.  Now that I have one with a floppy I can probably  > test it out relatively easily. > L > The basic deal with the SCSI driver, IIRC, is that it's in two parts.  YouM > need a firmware "patch," which can either be burned into the 2000's rom, orsN > booted from a floppy or the like.  You also need a VMS driver, which must be6 > added to the configuration of VMS that you're using. >tK > I suppose that getting VMS to actually boot from a SCSI device would be arJ > two step process, then, of bringing the machine up with a supported bootM > device, and copying the driver into the VMS setup (or perhaps using anotherdG > VMS machine...), and then booting properly with the altered firmware.  >p
 > Regards, >? > Chris  >e# > Christopher Smith, Perl Developerl > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >e > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");d > '  >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:17:34 -0600l+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>d# Subject: RE: Wanted: Small MicroVAX L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DE66@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----D > From: Robert DiRosario [mailto:robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov]  C > I knew NetBSD had a SCSI driver for the VS2000, but I didn't knowsF > someone wrote a VMS driver.  If you don't want to boot off of a SCSI  7 Yep, I was still able to get to his FTP site yesterday.i  D > device do you still need to change the firmware?  Does VMS need to* > get a list of devices from the firmware?  J I don't think so.  I believe that you only have to do the firmware/specialJ boot-disk thing if the system disk is scsi.  When I talked to Wolfgang, heL told me that you may have to also use a load-board if you want to _only_ useE SCSI, since the power-supply expects more load than most SCSI devicesd provide.  E > I have a pair of VS2000's at home and added an RD54 to the one with B > the color option and 14 Megs of ram. Yesterday I picked up a DEC; > monitor for it.  Can I install VMS on the VS2000 from an c > Infoserver 1000,C > or from another VAX?  I have a full, non hobbyist, 7.0 CD-ROM sethF > at home.  (It's my understanding that the VS2000 uses a non-standard > TK50.)  H Yes, I have no idea how non-standard it is, but it's kind of strange.  II have one.  As for netbooting from an infoserver, or another VAX, yes, youoH can do it. (from another VAX, anyway, I don't have an infoserver)  Never? tried to install VMS that way, but I'll bet it's not difficult.m   Regards,   Chrisa  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerp Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");a 'r  e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:53:10 -0500r; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>g. Subject: Re: Welcome To Microsoft's IT Academy$ Message-ID: <3bf55284$1@news.si.com>  J >  "Microsoft on Wednesday added yet another way to recruit Windows users:G >   A program to train students in high schools, vocational schools and H >   two- and four-year colleges to work with the software maker's latest >   technology.H  L Sounds like the cigarette companies targeting young people to guarantee they: have a willing supply of addicts to keep them in business. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:24:15 GMTr* From: "Marc Chametzky" <marc@bluevine.net>6 Subject: Re: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time?* Message-ID: <3bf53b97$1@baja.bluevine.net>  J > and did a SUBMIT/CPUTIME=0:0:5 .  It indeed stopped (without sending any mailJ > message, btw, but that's another story), after about *12* seconds of cpu time!s  - Take a look at the EXTRACPU system parameter.i  L I don't recall exactly what happens, but I think it's something like this...L When the CPU time expires, the process is sent a $FORCEX with a SS$_EXCPUTIMH (CPU time limit expired) signal. Then, EXTRACPU is given to the process.C When *that* CPU time is consumed, either the process is immediatelys@ $DELPRC'd or otherwise there's one more $FORCEX + EXTRACPU wait.  K The idea is that when a process has exceeded its CPU allotment, it may wish I to wind things down and save its state, so they made it possible to catch K that signal (through an error handler) and do something appropriate at that. time.-   --Marc   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:19:06 GMT-1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>-6 Subject: Re: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time?2 Message-ID: <3BF54A5D.9AE5B12F@clarityconnect.com>  
   EXTRACPU  G        EXTRACPU sets the time, in units of 10 milliseconds, allotted to)E        each of a process's exit handlers (for each access mode) after0C        the process times out (that is, reaches its CPU time limit).:  1        EXTRACPU is a DYNAMIC attribute parameter..     Marc Chametzky wrote:2 > L > > and did a SUBMIT/CPUTIME=0:0:5 .  It indeed stopped (without sending any > mailL > > message, btw, but that's another story), after about *12* seconds of cpu > time!e > / > Take a look at the EXTRACPU system parameter.n > N > I don't recall exactly what happens, but I think it's something like this...N > When the CPU time expires, the process is sent a $FORCEX with a SS$_EXCPUTIMJ > (CPU time limit expired) signal. Then, EXTRACPU is given to the process.E > When *that* CPU time is consumed, either the process is immediatelyaB > $DELPRC'd or otherwise there's one more $FORCEX + EXTRACPU wait. > M > The idea is that when a process has exceeded its CPU allotment, it may wishrK > to wind things down and save its state, so they made it possible to catch|M > that signal (through an error handler) and do something appropriate at thath > time.i >  > --Marc   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:08:06 GMTa# From: Mark Hemker <hemker@home.com>a- Subject: Wide-Area SAN configuration questiono8 Message-ID: <ad0avtsbp74h6n9llebt5n3h7hjt4qtmao@4ax.com>  @ We are in the process of trying to expand our SAN from the localD office to include our DR site.  We are looking very seriously at theD UltraNet Edge product from CNT currently.  But, we have also noticedF the SN5420 from Cisco.  Does anyone have any experience or familiarityE with either of these products, especially in a VMS environment.  I am C comfortable that the Edge product will work, but I don't know about>C the SN5420.  Is my thinking correct that if I put an SN5420 betweensC the SAN Switch and the Wide-Area communication link at each office,hD that it will look like the entire SAN is located locally (other than lag time for communication)?   Thanks,  Mark Hemker-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:49:20 -0500-* From: "Rob L Lyons" <rob.lyons@excite.com>1 Subject: Re: Wide-Area SAN configuration questionn+ Message-ID: <9t3903$np6$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   F The CNT product has been tested with multi-site VMS clusters.  I don'tF know if Cisco's product has.  You need to make sure that the design isH sized for the intended purpose.  Network devices work better for networkL traffic but can have serious problems with storage or computer interconnectsJ under heavy loads.  If you know the CNT solution works, is it really worth/ the potential savings for using something less?   E Your question is reasonable and there are good reasons you would wantrE to extend your SAN to the DR site.  But you should realize you are onoG the threshold of a more complex environment.  You'll want to be runninglD V7.3 of VMS with the new "site" specifications and some of the otherF new SCACP features.  The timing considerations are not only read/writeG performance but there are connection timeout parameters you need to setrE correctly.  You also may need to investigate the bandwidth of the WANp> and see what the added traffic will mean to the current users.  I Another consideration is whether there are active cluster nodes at the DRaI site.  If so you may need to change you DR plan to consider the SAN link.d  	 Rob Lyonsn Complex System Engineers Resilient Systems, Inc www.resilientsys.com  a Mark Hemker <hemker@home.com> wrote in message news:ad0avtsbp74h6n9llebt5n3h7hjt4qtmao@4ax.com... B > We are in the process of trying to expand our SAN from the localF > office to include our DR site.  We are looking very seriously at theF > UltraNet Edge product from CNT currently.  But, we have also noticedH > the SN5420 from Cisco.  Does anyone have any experience or familiarityG > with either of these products, especially in a VMS environment.  I ammE > comfortable that the Edge product will work, but I don't know aboutrE > the SN5420.  Is my thinking correct that if I put an SN5420 betweeniE > the SAN Switch and the Wide-Area communication link at each office,rF > that it will look like the entire SAN is located locally (other than > lag time for communication)? >d	 > Thanks,=
 > Mark Hemkere   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Nov 2001 16:05:04 GMT3 From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach)c Subject: Re: xp adsl) Message-ID: <9t3dfg$r88$2@news.panix.com>-  1 In article <hF%I7.1915$2Z5.84895@ozemail.com.au>,1. Phil Howell <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> wrote: >(beware of pop-up ads)V  B Poopup stopper (http://www.panicware.com) stopped them all for me. -- 8G "Life would be much simpler and things would get done much faster if ite weren't for other people" 
 		-- Blore   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.638 ************************