1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 17 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 640       Contents:	 17-Nov... 5 Alpha Reinvigoration Opportunities: A Bridge Too Far? @ Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-InsideP Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon KnP Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of ShannoP Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of ShannoP Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issueof  ShannoP Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issueof Shannon& Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless?& Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless?& Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless?& Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless?0 Re: Compaq/HP merger - let them know how to vote Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: DECUS in many names  Re: DEQ bonuses... RE: DEQ bonuses...P Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG) (ND Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal width. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again departmentP Get the CPQ White Paper: (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows CompP Re: Get the CPQ White Paper: (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows 
 Re: Ghoti :-) 2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! Island Customers - PLEASE READ ISV's and VMS on Intel) Re: mc ncp tell bla sh exec (DEcnet-Plus) * Re: Need help, was: Rob's British Champion Re: P/OS anyone?E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org ? Re: Using INETACP_FUNC$C_GETHOSTBYNAME using fortran- examples? 4 Re: Virtual Terminals and suppressing error messages; Re: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading ... ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; RE: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2001 09:23:29 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)  Subject: 17-Nov...3 Message-ID: <FZKt5B2FHlQk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   E I guess today is as close as it gets to wishing VMS a happy birthday.       4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:37:51 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> > Subject: Alpha Reinvigoration Opportunities: A Bridge Too Far?D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170624160.19917-100000@world.std.com>  % On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:    > : > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message@ > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170507070.25392-100000@world.std.com... > >  > > ) > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:  > >  > > > > > > > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in messageC > > > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111160958300.8088-100000@world.std.com...  > > > 	 > > > ...  > > > N > > > > But it all comes back to marketing. Instead of shooting the messenger, > why / > > > > not focus on the source of the problem?  > > > I > > > If you couched your pronouncements as messages from Compaq ("Compaq  > claimsA > > > that...") rather than endorsements ("This appears eminently  > reasonable..."),C > > > then you wouldn't be needing to duck anywhere nearly as much.  > > N > > Having spent a couple of years in a combat zone, I have a pretty good ideaI > > of when it makes sense to duck. Nothing worth ducking here on Usenet.  > G > Then don't complain about people shooting the messenger:  that's what 1 > precipitated the comment (which remains valid).  >   J Shooting the messenger accomplishes nothing. (Funny, there was no negative@ feedback about the Itanium Erratum in the offending issue of theG newsletter; and I'm surprised that said Erratum hasn't precipitated any  discussion).    > ... >L > > I do think that given the economic realities precipitated by a decade ofN > > Alpha marketing malfeasance rendered the IPF consolidation the best courseN > > of action Compaq could take. It's way too late to undo the damage that theM > > original Alpha marketing team did in the early-mid 90's. It's too late to N > > undo the really lousy deal that Microsoft suckered Strecker into acceptingL > > in August 1995 (Alliance for Enterprise Computing). And it's too late toG > > undo the cancellation of the Sculptor project by the dynamic duo of  > > Eckhard and Enrico.  > > $ > > A damned shame, but there it is. > K > You miss the point, which that *even after* all that damage Alpha *still* L > looks like much better bet on which to expand the VMS and Tru64 bases thanN > Itanic does (especially given that Itanic won't even be an option until 2004M > for VMS - and of course will never be for Tru64, unless Compaq reverses its K > course on that yet again).  History, sad though it is, is not relevant to  > that assessment.  J Where we are in disagreement is on the architectural platform for OpenVMS.G I am of the opinion that Alpha ceased to be economically viable. Wish I E was wrong in that regard, and I'd love to be proven wrong (since this F would prove Compaq wrong) but I just don't see any evidence to supportE continued investment in Alpha beyond EV7 (which is to all intents and  purposes a done deal now).      > > ... > 8 >  I doubt that CPQ pays much attention to the goings-on > > in this newsgroup. > N > One hopes that others do, however.  Since Compaq has *never* been responsiveL > to customer interest in Alpha, suggesting that we pin our hopes on talkingM > with Compaq seems silly.  I can't speak for others, but my main hope now is J > to make the incompetence and perfidy of Compaq's management sufficientlyL > publicly visible that the merger attempt fails (because customers are seenN > to be leaving Compaq in droves and/or because its stock prices drops too lowF > to make the HP offer palatable on the HP end) and the current CompaqK > management is booted out, *after* which talking with the *new* management ! > might be the right thing to do.   J Could be, my friend, but I'm not sure. But your scenario is not beyond theH realm of possibility. A recent case in point: I was quoted in the BostonJ Globe as saying that the merger isn't toast, but the document sure looks aA little brown around the edges. Doh, that's an understatement, no?   H Understatement or not, an unnamed person in CPQ PR had a hissy-fit aboutE the quote. Too bad, I stand by it... and it would appear that the the  opinion is very widely held.      <  > >  The traffic at the www.compaqworkinggroup.org site hasF > > been very low. The surveys at www.tru64.org have generated 10x theL > > responses of the working group efforts and Compaq does in fact take note# > > of the responses in that forum.  > I > Given how negative the results of that survey were, the only way Compaq N > could 'take note' of them in a manner that would indicate any responsiveness: > whatsoever to customer desires would be to revive Alpha. >   H Again, I don't think that'll happen.. too many bridges have been burned,> too many resources (developers, et al) have been "redeployed."  H Given the apparent business and economic realities, do you have a viableJ proposal for reinvigorating Alpha? I'm not trolling, I find the concept toF be interesting, and would find it even more interesting if it could be
 justified.    Comments or suggestions, anyone?  J A final comment of my own: my posting of the IPF-Inside issue sure as hellF spawned a lot of debate. This forum hasn't been this active in a Dog's age!   cheers,    terry s    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Nov 2001 12:28 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) I Subject: Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside - Message-ID: <17NOV200112285687@gerg.tamu.edu>   v In article <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170904310.17783-100000@world.std.com>, Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> writes... }  } % }On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote:  }  }> Terry C Shannon wrote:  }> >K }> > In light of the continuing controversy over the Alphacide, do you have L }> > any suggestions for survey questions for the next SKC/Tru64.org survey?M }> > If so, send 'em along to kfarmer@tru64.org and terryshannon@mediaone.net  }>Q }> Do you intend to stay on Alpha as long as possible, or migrate to IA64 as soon  }> as possible ? }> }  }Thanks, that's a good start!   E I would suggest adding at least one more choice somewhere between the J "as fast as possible" and "as slow as possible" choices. False dichotomiesJ make for really bad poll questions. (And on a web poll you generally can't pencil in "none of the above".)    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:47:28 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> Y Subject: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Kn D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170644130.19917-100000@world.std.com>  F In light of the continuing controversy over the Alphacide, do you haveG any suggestions for survey questions for the next SKC/Tru64.org survey? H If so, send 'em along to kfarmer@tru64.org and terryshannon@mediaone.net  H As previously mentioned, a summary of the mid-summer survey is posted atE www.tru64.org and voting is still open on the first follow-up survey.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:58:55 GMT % From: Milton <mbhewitt@optonline.net> Y Subject: Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shanno 8 Message-ID: <lfucvtk7ri84t1fgvil221bpc03l5jcoc4@4ax.com>  1 On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:47:28 GMT, Terry C Shannon  <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:   >  > G >In light of the continuing controversy over the Alphacide, do you have H >any suggestions for survey questions for the next SKC/Tru64.org survey?I >If so, send 'em along to kfarmer@tru64.org and terryshannon@mediaone.net  > I >As previously mentioned, a summary of the mid-summer survey is posted at F >www.tru64.org and voting is still open on the first follow-up survey.  ? In consideration of recent current events, which company do you E believe will best serve your future long-term enterprise-level needs.    Compaq HP Hpaq Sun  IBM    Cheers,  Milton   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2001 09:04:14 -06009 From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) Y Subject: Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shanno 3 Message-ID: <E0VIAaLXlxPN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <lfucvtk7ri84t1fgvil221bpc03l5jcoc4@4ax.com>, Milton <mbhewitt@optonline.net> writes:A > In consideration of recent current events, which company do you G > believe will best serve your future long-term enterprise-level needs.  >  > Compaq > HP > Hpaq > Sun  > IBM    Certainly not the first 3-4 :-(   4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:04:47 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> Y Subject: Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issueof  Shanno D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170904310.17783-100000@world.std.com>  $ On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   > Terry C Shannon wrote: > > J > > In light of the continuing controversy over the Alphacide, do you haveK > > any suggestions for survey questions for the next SKC/Tru64.org survey? L > > If so, send 'em along to kfarmer@tru64.org and terryshannon@mediaone.net > P > Do you intend to stay on Alpha as long as possible, or migrate to IA64 as soon > as possible ?  >    Thanks, that's a good start!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:03:01 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> Y Subject: Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issueof Shannon , Message-ID: <3BF66002.CAE8C70A@videotron.ca>   Terry C Shannon wrote: > H > In light of the continuing controversy over the Alphacide, do you haveI > any suggestions for survey questions for the next SKC/Tru64.org survey? J > If so, send 'em along to kfarmer@tru64.org and terryshannon@mediaone.net  N Do you intend to stay on Alpha as long as possible, or migrate to IA64 as soon
 as possible ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 07:10:54 GMT " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>/ Subject: Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless? + Message-ID: <3BF60E0C.92E5ADF3@cumulus.com>    John Forkosh wrote:  > , > I have several vs's (4000/60's and vlc's),- > all booting okay with S3 switch up and vt's , > plugged in mmj ports.  But would prefer to, > boot them headless, and  set host  to them- > as necessary, rather than having a terminal - > on each.  Is that possible?  Is there maybe - > some kind of kvm-like device that can "fake  > it out"?  Thanks,  > John (forkosh@panix.com)  F I'm doing it on my 4000 vlc.  I've got a linksys router with my redhatH IBM telnetting over to the 4000. I'll have to look in my startup file to see how it is done tho.    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Nov 2001 07:29:17 GMT- From: forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh) / Subject: Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless? ) Message-ID: <9t53kd$et4$1@news.panix.com>   + Bart Zorn (B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl) wrote: 2 : "John Forkosh" <forkosh@panix1.panix.com> wrote:. : > I have several vs's (4000/60's and vlc's),/ : > all booting okay with S3 switch up and vt's . : > plugged in mmj ports.  But would prefer to. : > boot them headless, and  set host  to them/ : > as necessary, rather than having a terminal / : > on each.  Is that possible?  Is there maybe / : > some kind of kvm-like device that can "fake  : > it out"?  Thanks,  : > John (forkosh@panix.com)  ; : If you can boot them from the vt, you should also be able ? : to set the console parameter HALT to the value 2, which means = : that it should boot after a succesfull power up self test., . : wheter there is a terminal connected or not.>      Thanks, Bart.  Works great.  There are lots of parameters4 from  show config  and  set <param>  at boot prompt.1 But I don't have documentation, and a lot of them ; aren't clear to me just by looking/playing (e.g., I figured  out fboot, but what's bflg?). =      Are there web or printed sources of this info available? C I couldn't find any at compaq or montagar (or from links I followed ( from there, etc, or from google search).  @ : However, be aware that if you plug a terminal into the consoleA : port of a running VAX, there is a fat chance that it will halt, A : because it sees the state change of the port as a braek signal,  : which means 'HALT'.       Okay, no problem.  > : I think that the best solution is to connect the consoles toD : ports of a terminal server. If you create services on the terminalC : server, you can connect tou the consoles when needed, without the  : need of physical changes. 0      I'd like to get a little DECserver 90L, but8 don't quite understand your suggested configuration.  MyC (apparently incomplete) understanding was that terminals (or modems > or printers) plug into the DECserver's mmj ports, and that its? thinwire connection is how it communicates with nodes providing ' services (my vaxstations in this case). >      But I think you're saying I can run an mmj cable directlyE between a vaxstation's mmj port and one of the DECserver's mmj ports.SD Then, I guess, a vt terminal gets plugged into another DECserver mmjC port.  Is that what happens?  How is lat software configured (whereyB is configuration documented -- I just see Chap.26 of sysadmin2.pdf at compaq site)?  Thanks again,  John (forkosh@panix.com)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:05:05 +0100e, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>/ Subject: Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless?e* Message-ID: <9t5clt$s5u$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  : "John Forkosh" <forkosh@panix1.panix.com> wrote in message# news:9t53kd$et4$1@news.panix.com...e- > Bart Zorn (B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl) wrote:h4 > : "John Forkosh" <forkosh@panix1.panix.com> wrote:0 > : > I have several vs's (4000/60's and vlc's),1 > : > all booting okay with S3 switch up and vt'st0 > : > plugged in mmj ports.  But would prefer to0 > : > boot them headless, and  set host  to them1 > : > as necessary, rather than having a terminalo1 > : > on each.  Is that possible?  Is there maybeN1 > : > some kind of kvm-like device that can "faker > : > it out"?  Thanks,r > : > John (forkosh@panix.com)  = > : If you can boot them from the vt, you should also be ablemA > : to set the console parameter HALT to the value 2, which meansa? > : that it should boot after a succesfull power up self test., 0 > : wheter there is a terminal connected or not.  @ >      Thanks, Bart.  Works great.  There are lots of parameters6 > from  show config  and  set <param>  at boot prompt.3 > But I don't have documentation, and a lot of themo= > aren't clear to me just by looking/playing (e.g., I figuredI > out fboot, but what's bflg?).   L BFLG means boot flags. It is a longword (32 bits) of which several bits have2 special meanings with respect to the boot process.K The most important one is probably bit 0. If set, you get a SYSBOOT> prompt.7 after you boot, at which you can set SYSGEN parameters. J In your configuration, you certainly don't want to set this bit unless you have a terminal connected.  ? >      Are there web or printed sources of this info available?eE > I couldn't find any at compaq or montagar (or from links I followede* > from there, etc, or from google search).  I At http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-i.html is a copy of theqJ documentation of the VAXStation 3100/M76. At least the description of BFLG- also applies to the 4000 series workstations.T  B > : However, be aware that if you plug a terminal into the consoleC > : port of a running VAX, there is a fat chance that it will halt,dC > : because it sees the state change of the port as a braek signal,  > : which means 'HALT'.i   >      Okay, no problem.  @ > : I think that the best solution is to connect the consoles toF > : ports of a terminal server. If you create services on the terminalE > : server, you can connect tou the consoles when needed, without the- > : need of physical changes.-  2 >      I'd like to get a little DECserver 90L, but: > don't quite understand your suggested configuration.  MyE > (apparently incomplete) understanding was that terminals (or modemsr@ > or printers) plug into the DECserver's mmj ports, and that itsA > thinwire connection is how it communicates with nodes providinge) > services (my vaxstations in this case).   I You could use the 90L but it has one big disadvantage over most other DECsK terminal servers: it's command language is different and less DCL-like thansJ the others. Most terminal servers need a download service from a VAX or anI Alpha. The 90M, the 700, the (new) 732 and the 900TM can have a flash romc6 and can then startup without the assistance of a host.  @ >      But I think you're saying I can run an mmj cable directlyG > between a vaxstation's mmj port and one of the DECserver's mmj ports.dF > Then, I guess, a vt terminal gets plugged into another DECserver mmjE > port.  Is that what happens?  How is lat software configured (wheremD > is configuration documented -- I just see Chap.26 of sysadmin2.pdf! > at compaq site)?  Thanks again,p  I Yes, you can. MMJ cables always have a cross-over wiring. You have to setoI the port which are used for the console ports to 'access remote', and youpI have to create a service on the terminal server which lets you connect to K that port. That port is than reachable from both a terminal connected to an < other port, or using SET HOST/LAT <service> from a VMS host.  G I am not sure if there is more documentation than what you have alreadyl found.   Regards,    	 Bart Zornn   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:35:25 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>/ Subject: Re: Can vaxstation be booted headless?t, Message-ID: <3BF683BD.3020400@tsoft-inc.com>   Bart Zorn wrote:    D  >> : I think that the best solution is to connect the consoles to :I  >> ports of a terminal server. If you create services on the terminal : yA server, you can connect tou the consoles when needed, without theo  >>: need of physical changes.   <snip>    L  > Yes, you can. MMJ cables always have a cross-over wiring. You have to setL  > the port which are used for the console ports to 'access remote', and youL  > have to create a service on the terminal server which lets you connect toI  > that port. That port is than reachable from both a terminal connected e to anl?  > other port, or using SET HOST/LAT <service> from a VMS host.   E If the console ports of multiple systems are connected to a terminal tA server, for example a 90TL, and a single terminal is connected to        -- m4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486  E  >> >>: server, you can connect tou the consoles when needed, without $  >>  the : need of physical changes.   <snip>    E  > Yes, you can. MMJ cables always have a cross-over wiring. You haveAB  > to set the port which are used for the console ports to 'accessC  > remote', and you have to create a service on the terminal serverqC  > which lets you connect to that port. That port is than reachablet@  > from both a terminal connected to an other port, or using SET&  > HOST/LAT <service> from a VMS host.  E If the console ports of multiple systems are connected to a terminal uE server, for example a 90TL, and a single terminal is connected to an bH additional port, then the terminal would (I'd think) be connected to at C most one of the services (ports) at any time.  The console port is eI continually getting operator information, TELNET connection requests and pC such.  Is there any problem with the data being buffered until the mE terminal server has no available memory, and then the system hanging aH because it cannot send output to the console?  Is there some way to get H the 'service' on the terminal server to not buffer data when nothing is E connected to the service?  This would act like a terminal, text just iH scrolling off the top of the screen, and allow long term running of the & systems without operator intervention.   Dave   -- p4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:57:17 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r9 Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger - let them know how to voter> Message-ID: <1yxJ7.204545$YL3.62556247@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  	 Whatever.g    7 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <noone@dummy.com> wrote in messagea# news:3BF3E0C7.DD528F43@dummy.com... 4 > Hm, it was "...in search for a human", wasn't it ? >e > Jan-Erik Sderholm.r >  > John Smith wrote:m > > L > > I feel a bit like Diogenes wandering about with his lamp in search of an > > honest man.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:48:03 +0100'( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters- Message-ID: <VA.000004bb.6b9709a7@bluewin.ch>t  : In article <3BF55CF6.4B0F585@UIowa.EDU>, Rick Dyson wrote:M > Can/will DFO defragment "open" files?  That is, big database files open forsN > both read/write operations by an application.  Files up to multi-GB in size, > filling 40-70% of a disk...  > M No way. IIRC correctly even if it has started to defragment a file it checks  H to see if someone has opened it meanwhile before doing the final commit. ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:53:54 GMTu- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>u  Subject: Re: DECUS in many namesD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170650490.19917-100000@world.std.com>  $ On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:CE > > And guess what, Compaq no longer regards Encompass as an entitled1& > > beneficiary of corporate largesse. >wP > > Well, I'm not interested in popping $90 bucks to fraternize with Windoze and > > iPAQ users >sN > A few months ago, I had suggested to VMS MANAGEMENT that a VMS specific userN > group be formed and be of a global nature to reach people worldwide and alsoK > suplement the worlk of DFWLUG by making the hobbysist programme available>M > worldwide. Such a group would initially have been electronic only in naturegO > with on-line registrations, and in exchange for VMS Managemet's support, theylN > would have access to our membership list, thus relieveing Sue's tedious workG > of maintaining her list of customers interested in VMS. The offer was K > initially dismissed (not even responded to) and eventually rejected. (eg:2 > nevert seriously considered).a >n3 > Note that there is precedent with www.tru64.org .t >s  I Since I am involved with Encompass US management (and DECUS US before it)0E as well as www.tru64.org, permit me to make a couple of observations.g  H Given the way user groups are structured and organized in the CPQ world,G it is unlikely that CPQ's Customer Liason Office would be supportive ofm' the creation of another specific group.t  H That said, I like the idea of a VMS-specific group. Ken Farmer is firingI up www.openvms.org; perhaps this venue could serve as a forum for the VMS 
 community.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Nov 2001 06:59 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins): Subject: Re: DEQ bonuses...e- Message-ID: <17NOV200106592246@gerg.tamu.edu>a  2 "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com> writes... }Fabio Cardoso wrote }>So, as you see...T$ }>"IT IS NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL MERGER"% }>It is just another mafia agreement.e4 }>Families Fiorina+Capellas (both italian surnames). } ; }Capellas is a Greek surname, according to my Italian wife.o  > Besides which, they have both agreed not to take any bonus forB themselves. The bonuses are for the rest of the (presumably mostly upper) management.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 05:20:42 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e Subject: RE: DEQ bonuses...e9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEHODJAA.tom@kednos.com>l  @ I think your Italian wife needs italian lessons.  It is Italian, comes from latin.-   > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Duane Sand [mailto:duane.sand@mindspring.com]s) > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:43 AMs > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come > Subject: Re: DEQ bonuses...  >  >  > Fabio Cardoso wroten > >So, as you see...% > >"IT IS NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL MERGER"p& > >It is just another mafia agreement.5 > >Families Fiorina+Capellas (both italian surnames).e > < > Capellas is a Greek surname, according to my Italian wife. >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:56:47 GMTB- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>oY Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG) (NaD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170654590.19917-100000@world.std.com>  J I'm in the Netherlands right now, but I unfortunately will be elsewhere on= 29 November. Having done a presentation for the NLCUG back in1F mid-September, I have first-hand experience that the folks are doing aB good job. If you're gonna be in the area, by all means take Gerrit Woertman up on his suggestion!  + On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, Gerrit Woertman wrote:f  N > The Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG, a combination of DECUS and BENTUG)L > organizes on November, 29, in Soest, the Netherlands, a day about Disaster > Tolerance.J > If you are interested, the program (mostly in the Dutch language) can be! > found at:  http://www.nlcug.nl/- > M > When planning this event half a year ago, we didn't realize that this topico > would be that actual.S >e0 > Information can be obtained at: nlcug@wispa.nl >s2 > Our next event in April, will be about Security. >n
 > regards, > Gerrit Woertman  >  >n >g   ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 17 Nov 01 09:37:37 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comeM Subject: Re: Editing DCL command lines longer than the current terminal widtht+ Message-ID: <9t5i4r$9dh$1@bob.news.rcn.net>y  * In article <3BF5AA62.539F585A@virgin.net>,)    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:  >  >- >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >a >> IG >> >Sometimes DEC targeted layered products at TOPS-10 and assumed that:: >> >not supporting the additional TOPS-20 features was ok. >>C >> Nope.  That's not how it happened.  Language development stoppedv% >> targeting TOPS-10 in the late 70s.n >> >wG >The compilers were fixed to generate native TOPS-20 monitor calls and   handleJ >TOPS-20 file specs etc but it didn't extend all the way to providing easy >access to JSYS UUOs.s >aF I didn't mean to imply that they did a complete job of it.  I was just> commenting on your assumption that the reason this wasn't done2 was because they were doing TOPS-10 development.     /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:09:12 +0100-( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department - Message-ID: <VA.000004bd.6c184295@bluewin.ch>s  D In article <MPG.165c53932db105cf9896bf@news-server.neo.rr.com>, Joe  Matuscak wrote:o > Take a look at:s > / > http://www.calc.org/news/display.php?id=61241r > K > HP has killed their calculator group. They were apparently making money,  H > designing slick new products, planning for the future, etc. All those C > sort of old fashioned things.  The comments from one of the exHP  K > engineers sounds, ummh, hauntingly familiar.  Oh well, another product I  # > liked nuked by marketing weasles.  >nI "Xpander project: project cancelled, one month before released as big HP o< bosses decided that HP would NOT go into education anymore."  / Ouch! And it gets worse as the article goes on.f  F Now, from day 1 of the merger announcement I was criticizing the Wall K Street analysts for only talking about PCs, apart from one lady on CNN who  H managed to stumble over the phrase "storage networks" in a very awkward L fashion as if she'd been briefed on it, but couldn't understand the concept I (I _almost_ thought she was going to mention StorageWorks at that point).e  I Seems like the analysts were right though, as the following states quite   clearly.  K http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/714154/000091205701538073/a2062839z4r 25.txt (sorry it's wrapped)    --start quote--   K Q72. THE MERGER SEEMS TO DOUBLE THE SIZE OF OUR PC COMMODITY HOLDINGS. THISsB SEEMS AT ODDS WITH OUR STRATEGY. CAN YOU RECONCILE THIS PERCEIVED  DISCONNECT?   J A: As a result of this deal, we may become the number one PC manufacturer J in the industry. This would give us a very good negotiating position with K our suppliers, achieving cost savings that we'll be able to pass on to our dG customers and reinvest in the company to develop more innovative, more  ! compelling, more useful products.eJ There are benefits of being the number one PC manufacturer to both the new) company and our customers. These include:D  I o  Increased negotiating power with suppliers, which translates into costs5    savings that can be passed along to our customers.s  H o  Increased ability to influence future product development and promote:    customer concerns with powerhouses Intel and Microsoft.  J o  Increased opportunities to sell related products: printers, PDA's, etc.  K And we all recognize that the role PC's play in the office and in the home iK is changing. Being #1 means we've got the ability to lead this transition,  $ to influence the direction it takes.  
 --end quote--- __
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 07:57:20 -0500>- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again departmento, Message-ID: <3BF65EAE.96C8A522@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote:$K > A: As a result of this deal, we may become the number one PC manufacturerh > in the industry.  N When Air Canada inherited the remains of Canadian Airlines, it quickly claimedM that it would become the world's 10th largest airline with the simple math ofwL combinin the statistics of Canadian with those of Air Canada.  But it didn'tI think that many customers would move over to any other airline. Those whoIM traveled with smaller Canadian Airline hated Air Canada so they would want totK choose any other carrier than Air Canada. As a Result, Air Canada went from M about 85% monopoly last year to just under 70% until a few weeks ago when itsv" main competitor stopped operating.    M Similarly, when Compaq ceases to exist, there is no reason to expect that allcL customers who used to buy from Compaq would instantly choose to buy from HP.N HP may not become the number 1 PC maker for very long. And when they drop downC to #2, it will be a big blow to their ego and Carly will be labeledo2 incompentent for allowing HP to lose market share.    K > o  Increased negotiating power with suppliers, which translates into costl7 >    savings that can be passed along to our customers.c  > But is that where HP/Compaq are at a disadvantage over Dell ?   J > o  Increased ability to influence future product development and promote< >    customer concerns with powerhouses Intel and Microsoft.  M They should go to the Comedy Hour or the Gong Show for such sentences. Compaq N didn't protect customer's interests during the Microsoft trial, they were 100% behind Microsoft.   L > o  Increased opportunities to sell related products: printers, PDA's, etc.  A Funny, Palm managed quite well with its PDAs without selling PCs.o  L > And we all recognize that the role PC's play in the office and in the homeL > is changing. Being #1 means we've got the ability to lead this transition,& > to influence the direction it takes.  L Compaq had its chance. It had Alpha it could have made industry standard andM truly change the industry and save Intel the trouble of finishing its bloated N IA64. Intel could have fabbed the Alphas and still made some money. But CompaqJ chose not to do so and be a good dog and follow what its masters Intel and Microsoft told them to do.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:58:01 +0100k& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department * Message-ID: <3BF67AF9.EDCAD485@dplanet.ch>   Paul Sture wrote:d > E > In article <MPG.165c53932db105cf9896bf@news-server.neo.rr.com>, Joeh > Matuscak wrote:s > > Take a look at:w > >o1 > > http://www.calc.org/news/display.php?id=61241c  1 Paul quoted the Compaq/Hp submission as saying ..s  K > A: As a result of this deal, we may become the number one PC manufacturere > in the industry.    A On Compaq's track record with PCs, this will also make the mergedm  company the number one LOSER !       John McLean2     > __ > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:44:02 GMTk- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> Y Subject: Get the CPQ White Paper: (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows CompaD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170639090.19917-100000@world.std.com>  % On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:g   >(: > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message@ > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111102342060.15684-100000@world.std.com... > >MM > > I just put together a special issue of Shannon Knows Compaq that containsuA > > three articles on Compaq's IPF Consolidation. Included in theaH > > free-for-the-downloading PDF are a discussion of why Compaq opted toL > > scuttle Alpha, an explanation of why things were done as they were (e.g.M > > why publish an Alpha obituary three or four years before the architecture A > > shuffles off its mortal coils), and what's behind the current ( > > unavailability of IPF-based systems. >-J > Despite your introductory statement that "finally details are emerging",F > this is largely a re-hash of the bullshit that Compaq (and you) wereM > spreading so liberally just after June 25th.  Why you expect anyone to findt7 > it any more believable this time around is not clear.t >f  G If it's a re-hash of anything, it's a synposis of a 13-page white paper J that Compaq's HPSD is in the process of releasing. The white paper does inG fact reprise much of the stuff that went into the decision. Much of the-C material heretofore was NDA, some of the content was articulated atoH CETS2001. Best course of action is to obtain the white paper and analyzeH same. You might still regard it to be specious, but it does contain some; interesting data that can be corroborated from a variety ofp (non-marketing) sources.   Worth a read, at any rate!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:38:01 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com>Y Subject: Re: Get the CPQ White Paper: (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows F? Message-ID: <tvvJ7.25072$RG1.12327768@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>I   "Terry C Shannon"iM > ... If it's a re-hash of anything, it's a synposis of a 13-page white paper L > that Compaq's HPSD is in the process of releasing. The white paper does inI > fact reprise much of the stuff that went into the decision. Much of the E > material heretofore was NDA, some of the content was articulated ateJ > CETS2001. Best course of action is to obtain the white paper and analyze > same. ...h  D So, where I find this paper?  I've tried both searching and fumblingB through CPQ's public site with no luck.  If it's not released yet,. where did Todd etc find it to do their hashin?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:59:19 +0000n From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>  Subject: Re: Ghoti :-)) Message-ID: <3BF64307.D1C310A1@Omond.net>h   Paul Sture wrote:   & > > And then there is always "ghoti"!! > >vB > What is "ghoti" please? I got a gazillion hits on various search@ > engines, but not a single one I looked at told me what it was.  < And there I was thinking you're a native English speaker :-)   "gh" as in "enough"a "o" as in "women"t "ti" as in "motion"g         .  .c .o .e     FISH !    	 Roy OmondI Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:48:03 +0100g( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!t- Message-ID: <VA.000004b9.6b970821@bluewin.ch>   J In article <OhV7+YJwUAfh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Larry Kilgallen wrote:g > In article <Pine.LNX.4.33.0111132051440.7104-100000@awk.sture.ch>, Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> writes:c# > > On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, cjt wrote:c > > % > >> Yes, but English is so "legacy."b > >>F > > Are you suggesting we use "Industry standard English" from now on? >  > Kewl, dood.  That RULEZ !!!o >o e33k n0. ___c
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:48:03 +0100c( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!C- Message-ID: <VA.000004ba.6b97099d@bluewin.ch>e  B In article <9sv6ce$nro$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <BnrlFQpYm0JF@eisner.encompasserve.org>,n2 >  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > |>  H > |> Written English is a set of rules for setting down the spoken wordsA > |> in a graphic format to facilitate reading and comprehension.o > |> fC > |> i kud ryght stough inn calmprihenssible weighs igknorrinn rulzc& > |> buht knot yousingh rytin ingglysh > $ > And then there is always "ghoti"!! > A What is "ghoti" please? I got a gazillion hits on various search r> engines, but not a single one I looked at told me what it was. ___0
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:25:21 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!n; Message-ID: <lWqJ7.11790$4m.817893@news2.aus1.giganews.com>1  3 Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote in messaged' news:VA.000004ba.6b97099d@bluewin.ch... D > In article <9sv6ce$nro$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote:7 > > In article <BnrlFQpYm0JF@eisner.encompasserve.org>,n4 > >  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > > |>J > > |> Written English is a set of rules for setting down the spoken wordsC > > |> in a graphic format to facilitate reading and comprehension.a > > |>E > > |> i kud ryght stough inn calmprihenssible weighs igknorrinn rulzh( > > |> buht knot yousingh rytin ingglysh > >e& > > And then there is always "ghoti"!! > > B > What is "ghoti" please? I got a gazillion hits on various search@ > engines, but not a single one I looked at told me what it was.  K It's a common member of the animal kindgom (a class?  it's been to long...) J spelled using unusual (but valid:  they occur commonly) choices of letters to sound it out.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:10:51 -0500f0 From: "Island Computers" <dbturner@islandco.com>' Subject: Island Customers - PLEASE READe/ Message-ID: <tvcnubmuuvfhde@news.supernews.com>r  H If you have purchased DEC or Compaq computer hardware from us within the? last twelve months, please remember it is still under warranty.oH We have come to find that a few people are having issues wih things like= hard drives failing (not many people) and are not telling us.eG We have an excellent reputation for honoring our 12 month warranty - wen6 replace product as soon as we are notified of failure.0 So please... IF you have a problem - let us knowL European customers will recieve product within 4 days via Fedex and Americas
 within 3 days-     Thanks   http://www.islandco.comN sales@islandco.com Island Computers US Corp.a 2700 Gregory Street: Savannah GA 31404e Tel: 912 447 6622V Fax: 912 201 0096a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:51:34 +0100o& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> Subject: ISV's and VMS on Intelt* Message-ID: <3BF67976.13A885AE@dplanet.ch>   A serious question ...  E There has ben a lot of talk about ISVs bringing their software to VMSl when Intel/VMS is released.t  B For example, in reporting on the Dutch seminar about VMS moving to, Intel, The Inquirer stated earlier today (atF http://www.theinquirer.net/17110103.htm) ..."In fact, according to Mr.G Goldstein, the combination of the DII-COE initiative and the use of the F Intel Calling Standard for the IPF version of OpenVMS render it highlyG likely that the OS will attract attention from ISVs who heretofore havei2 not ported their apps to the OpenVMS environment."  D I am having trouble understanding why any ISV would find Intel/VMS aF more attractive proposition than Alpha/VMS.  I would have thought thatC System Service calls, Run-time library calls and other O/S-specifica? issues would have been the major obstacle.  After all, very fews? third-party products get anywhere near the underlying hardware.a  4 Can someone please explain the flaw in my thinking ?     thanks,I   John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:12:02 +0100M, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>2 Subject: Re: mc ncp tell bla sh exec (DEcnet-Plus)% Message-ID: <3BF629E2.583FC0D@gmx.ch>)   "a.carlini" wrote:   ../..0) > On top of that, it is quite perverse to - > try and manage a remote Phase V system fromt& > a Phase V system but insist on using > a Phase IV tool :-)t  ? I agree. My point is that I have written another show_links.comrA procedure which does much more than the existing one found in thehE Freeware V4 CD. I browse the ncl sh session control output + show osiMM transport port bla + show nsp port bla + show users/nod/full + sh system etc.   D I wanted to add the decnet version of the remote node where the linkF comes from. I tried to use ncp sh exec. For phase IV systems, it's ok,E for DECnet Plus I get that CMIP error and wanted to know if it was myoH fault or any other reason. Your answer sounds good to me, so I will findH another solution. Maybe if I get an error trying to connect, I may guess that it is an OSI system.    Thanks Antonio,    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:48:03 +0100W( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>3 Subject: Re: Need help, was: Rob's British Championr- Message-ID: <VA.000004b8.6b97080d@bluewin.ch>L  C In article <9t0n2r$1f0l$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote:5< > In article <OF791CC05C.DDE25F33-ON00256B03.0045DCDC@btyp>,% >  Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com writes:r > |> >M > |> Or, for more information try www.192.com which will search all electoraltN > |> registers for the name you input, and give you back address, phone number	 > |> etc.  > |> sH > |> Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> on 11/09/2001 07:05:29 PM wrote: > |> vE > |> If you have his location, try Directory Enquiries at www.bt.com.i > |> g > E > Both of these seem like good ideas, until I provide the last bit of E > data.  My friends name is "Smith".  "David S, Smith" to be precise.sE > How many of them do you thnk there might be in England today??  :-)a > N Aargh. I think I've worked with at least 4 David Smiths, and there's a couple  more I know socially.    ___m
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Nov 2001 08:55:21 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)  Subject: Re: P/OS anyone?w5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-wgdHTW1NXeC1@localhost>p  ( On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:48:04, "Malcolm" * <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:  	 [snipped]w  eK > Anyone know a hardware modification to make a standard 3 1/2" floppy lookw > likeA > an RX50 drive? Is an RX50 *anything* like a standard PC drive??g/ > 5 1/4" media is becoming scarce these days...i  D Low speed 3 1/2" drives (720K) should work 'out of the box'. I used D one on my Rainbow (as drive C:) for years. Using both sides I could ? get 800K on them.Vey good for archiving/backups.  ISTR that my uF experiments with high speed (1.44M) drives were less successful :-).     -- c Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:48:03 +0100a( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org- Message-ID: <VA.000004bc.6b970b2e@bluewin.ch>l  H In article <20011116143902.28778.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher wrote:B > On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Trent Worthington <fuckoff@none.nul> wrote:I > >On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:19:00 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>h	 > >wrote:o > >o > >[...] > >eL > >>Knuckle-draggers don't consider such differences significant, of course. > >nI > >Bill, perhaps you should stick to something you know, like how to make/I > >bongs out of tennis ball cans, or angel dust out of dutch cleanser, ortC > >how to lurk in stair wells to catch a few up-skirt-beaver-shots.HI > >In the mean time, pull that ring finger out of your ass, sniff it, andC8 > >type out something else for the audience to laugh at. > K > Here Troll, have some peanuts 0o0 0o0 0o0 I hope you're allergic to them.e >  > Doc. >t  A quick word to everyone please.  J Please ignore this Troll. A quick search on Google Groups comes up with a * whole litany of foul language and insults. ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 05:11:04 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>TN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF637B6.C3F4259E@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote: F > Only if you still want to drag him into a court of law.  Me, I'm forJ > shoot on sight.  No, I'll take that back.  Much too quick.  I'll have toI > think of something very slow.  The head of a terrorist network deservesa0 > no less, regardless of any particular action.   M What if Bin Laden were to donate his money to a cause that would take VMS andsN market it big time to kill off Microsoft ? (a form of terrorism :-), how would you feel about it ?   K Would your morals bend to allow some evil guy to bring back to health an OSm> you love and wage a war against the evile empire (Microsoft) ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:22:44 GMTo- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>tN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170507070.25392-100000@world.std.com>  % On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:r   >1: > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message? > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111160958300.8088-100000@world.std.com...h >  > ...n >uN > > But it all comes back to marketing. Instead of shooting the messenger, why+ > > not focus on the source of the problem?l >aL > If you couched your pronouncements as messages from Compaq ("Compaq claimsN > that...") rather than endorsements ("This appears eminently reasonable..."),? > then you wouldn't be needing to duck anywhere nearly as much.o  J Having spent a couple of years in a combat zone, I have a pretty good ideaE of when it makes sense to duck. Nothing worth ducking here on Usenet.t  J Now, going back to the SKC issue that precipitated the little tempest in aJ teapot, 'bout all I can say is that it's a shame that Compaq's 13-page IPFG white paper has not yet hit the streets. It is from there that the "howr7 CPQ cartographers drew the IPF roadmap" piece was born.s  J The companion article discussing the reasons CPQ scuttled Alpha in the wayH it did was based on discussions with CPQ, INTC, and other engineers. The? reasons seem more plausible than some I've heard in this forum.     J > The source of the problem is certainly Compaq and the actions it's takenN > that should be shoved right back up its rear end, but those who aid and abetN > it in its perfidious endeavors won't be forgotten either:  there's plenty of > outrage to spread around.t >p  G I don't believe I'm aiding and abetting CPQ. For sure the firm has sometI clueless marketeers, folks who obsess over the cute graphics in their PPTi' presentations, not the content therein.#  H I do think that given the economic realities precipitated by a decade ofJ Alpha marketing malfeasance rendered the IPF consolidation the best courseJ of action Compaq could take. It's way too late to undo the damage that theI original Alpha marketing team did in the early-mid 90's. It's too late toiJ undo the really lousy deal that Microsoft suckered Strecker into acceptingH in August 1995 (Alliance for Enterprise Computing). And it's too late toC undo the cancellation of the Sculptor project by the dynamic duo ofo Eckhard and Enrico.l    A damned shame, but there it is.  E Nobody forced you to download and read (and then expound upon) what I>? wrote. Go ahead and be outraged if it makes you happy to do so.6  I Your time would be better spent targeting the source of the problem. As I G am sure you are a CPQ stockholder and customer, you can sell your stock F holdings (or vote against the merger) and trade in your CPQ enterprise! computing gear for Sun equipment.c  H Seriously, though, I doubt that CPQ pays much attention to the goings-onI in this newsgroup. The traffic at the www.compaqworkinggroup.org site has B been very low. The surveys at www.tru64.org have generated 10x theH responses of the working group efforts and Compaq does in fact take note of the responses in that forum.t   cheers,e   terry ss   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:43:58 GMTG* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org@ Message-ID: <ObrJ7.18946$dk.1141447@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message> news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170507070.25392-100000@world.std.com... >e >r' > On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:l >d > >h< > > Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in messageA > > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111160958300.8088-100000@world.std.com...e > >  > > ...e > >.L > > > But it all comes back to marketing. Instead of shooting the messenger, why - > > > not focus on the source of the problem?b > > G > > If you couched your pronouncements as messages from Compaq ("Compaqr claims? > > that...") rather than endorsements ("This appears eminentlya reasonable..."),A > > then you wouldn't be needing to duck anywhere nearly as much.j > L > Having spent a couple of years in a combat zone, I have a pretty good ideaG > of when it makes sense to duck. Nothing worth ducking here on Usenet.   E Then don't complain about people shooting the messenger:  that's whato/ precipitated the comment (which remains valid).e   ...f  J > I do think that given the economic realities precipitated by a decade ofL > Alpha marketing malfeasance rendered the IPF consolidation the best courseL > of action Compaq could take. It's way too late to undo the damage that theK > original Alpha marketing team did in the early-mid 90's. It's too late toeL > undo the really lousy deal that Microsoft suckered Strecker into acceptingJ > in August 1995 (Alliance for Enterprise Computing). And it's too late toE > undo the cancellation of the Sculptor project by the dynamic duo ofW > Eckhard and Enrico.e >l" > A damned shame, but there it is.  I You miss the point, which that *even after* all that damage Alpha *still*CJ looks like much better bet on which to expand the VMS and Tru64 bases thanL Itanic does (especially given that Itanic won't even be an option until 2004K for VMS - and of course will never be for Tru64, unless Compaq reverses its I course on that yet again).  History, sad though it is, is not relevant tol that assessment.   ...t  6  I doubt that CPQ pays much attention to the goings-on > in this newsgroup.  L One hopes that others do, however.  Since Compaq has *never* been responsiveJ to customer interest in Alpha, suggesting that we pin our hopes on talkingK with Compaq seems silly.  I can't speak for others, but my main hope now isoH to make the incompetence and perfidy of Compaq's management sufficientlyJ publicly visible that the merger attempt fails (because customers are seenL to be leaving Compaq in droves and/or because its stock prices drops too lowD to make the HP offer palatable on the HP end) and the current CompaqI management is booted out, *after* which talking with the *new* managementE might be the right thing to do."  7  The traffic at the www.compaqworkinggroup.org site has D > been very low. The surveys at www.tru64.org have generated 10x theJ > responses of the working group efforts and Compaq does in fact take note! > of the responses in that forum.u  G Given how negative the results of that survey were, the only way Compaq.L could 'take note' of them in a manner that would indicate any responsiveness8 whatsoever to customer desires would be to revive Alpha.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:58:51 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>sN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170657180.19917-100000@world.std.com>  $ On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   > Jeff Killeen wrote:-O > > I thought Terry's Taliban analogy references were a little over the top butbP > > it does appear to me at this point he has correctly identified behavior thatO > > is about as rational and open to the concept of alternate points of view asd > > the Taliban's behavior.  >a >c > Got another one: >.O > Winkler is a terrorist because he is out to destroy VMS and force a Microsoft M > dictatorship on all Compaq customers.  The USA should bomb Compaq's houstoniP > headquarters out of existance, and let the former Tandem and Digital divisionsL > decide on a democratic governance of their company with the UN providing a< > shield to prevent Microsoft from taking back that company. > N > The USA should also sign the landmine eradication treaty and as soon as thisP > is done, should order Microsoft to remove distributing products that are laced > with land mines. >-  I I've never encountered a Bouncing Betty or a magnetic influence mine in adH Microsoft product, but the slagware is so susceptible to viruses that it9 certainly runs afoul of chemical and biological treaties.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:00:11 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>6N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <3BF65F58.417D8DE@videotron.ca>S   Terry C Shannon wrote:C >'bout all I can say is that it's a shame that Compaq's 13-page IPFi+ > white paper has not yet hit the streets.    K Yo ! Why should ANYONE believe some white paper that Compaq produces ? TheyoH had plenty of white papers showing how much better Alpha was and how theI bloated IA64 would always lag behind because its core design was not welltL suited to reach the performance that Alpha was planned to reach. Yet, CompaqK was able to do a 180 and now the reverse paper is supposed to convince me ?h  3 Sorry, COMPAQ HAS NO CREDIBILITY WITH WHITE PAPERS.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:03:35 GMTo- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>-N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170901450.17783-100000@world.std.com>  $ On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   > Terry C Shannon wrote:E > >'bout all I can say is that it's a shame that Compaq's 13-page IPFs, > > white paper has not yet hit the streets. >eM > Yo ! Why should ANYONE believe some white paper that Compaq produces ? TheyiJ > had plenty of white papers showing how much better Alpha was and how theK > bloated IA64 would always lag behind because its core design was not well N > suited to reach the performance that Alpha was planned to reach. Yet, CompaqM > was able to do a 180 and now the reverse paper is supposed to convince me ?  >h5 > Sorry, COMPAQ HAS NO CREDIBILITY WITH WHITE PAPERS.e >s  H The only credibility I give the document is that it contains informationJ previous disseminated by CPQ and INTC engineers. Better to read the entire3 thing before making pronouncements on it, though...o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:43:21 +0100D& From: John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org* Message-ID: <3BF67789.BEC43A09@dplanet.ch>   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Terry C Shannon wrote:E > >'bout all I can say is that it's a shame that Compaq's 13-page IPF/, > > white paper has not yet hit the streets. > M > Yo ! Why should ANYONE believe some white paper that Compaq produces ? TheyeJ > had plenty of white papers showing how much better Alpha was and how theK > bloated IA64 would always lag behind because its core design was not welliN > suited to reach the performance that Alpha was planned to reach. Yet, CompaqM > was able to do a 180 and now the reverse paper is supposed to convince me ?A > 5 > Sorry, COMPAQ HAS NO CREDIBILITY WITH WHITE PAPERS.     B About the only thing that Compaq should do with the White Paper is% fasten it to a big stick and wave it.s  F They really are surrendering in the battle for the IT marketplace ....     John McLeanp   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:28:29 GMT-3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)0N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org. Message-ID: <1CtJ7.24$M3.35@news-srv1.fmr.com>   Terry,  L I have recently provided feedback to compaqworkinggroup.org on VMS.  Is thisC effort now being ignored/abandoned?  Does the feedback mechanism attI www.tru64.org allow for VMS feedback?  If not, will there be some kind of @ VMS-centric mechanism available that COMPAQ *will* take note of?   Thanks,h Brad  gt In article <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170507070.25392-100000@world.std.com>, Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> writes: <snip> >aI >Seriously, though, I doubt that CPQ pays much attention to the goings-oniJ >in this newsgroup. The traffic at the www.compaqworkinggroup.org site hasC >been very low. The surveys at www.tru64.org have generated 10x theoI >responses of the working group efforts and Compaq does in fact take notes  >of the responses in that forum. >t >cheers, >  >terry s >t   Bradford J. Hamilton  bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work)   ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"1   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:34:59 -0000e, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c*m>H Subject: Re: Using INETACP_FUNC$C_GETHOSTBYNAME using fortran- examples?1 Message-ID: <9t66ti$9os$1@uranium.btinternet.com><   Hi,0  H inetacp$c_trans is probaly what you were looking for and is the best wayL that I know of to xlate ip addresses and names. (Maybe someone should updateJ the documentation to say that that's what it does?) But in case you wantedA the entire hostent structure I've included the following example.l  L It's not fortran but it does unravel the hostent structure to the best of my
 knowledge.   Regards Richard Maherc     The way I see it is:-   9 . host_name      is an offset to a null terminated string E . host_aliases   is an offset to a list of offsets to null terminated  strings.<                  The offset list being terminated by a null.K . host_addresses is an offset to an offset to a list of addresses. The listuL                  terminated when the pointer is >= the addresss of the first                  offset.  F Because, to some degree, Compaq has been churlishly unilateral in it's approachL to IPv6 and TCPware/Multinet(Process Software) It could be argued that there isE a disadvantage to a network software developer in supporting AF_INET6k
 addresses.  & A couple of observations with Solaris.  F 1) If a hostname has more than one address then the address won't back xlate.?    IE: If you enter ascii 1.2.3.4 It results in "No such node".eJ 2) The node adresses are delimted by nulls or longword zeros wheres on UCX-    (for at least the hosts file) they're not.      identification division. program-id.    get_host. environment division.r configuration section. special-names.  -     class a_valid_nodename is   "A" thru "Z",c-                                 "a" thru "z",--                                 "0" thru "9",0-                                 ".", "-","_",e-                                 "/", " ","$".s data division. working-storage section.@ 01  ucx$c_af_inet           pic 9(9)    comp    value   external ucx$c_af_inet.@ 01  gethostbyname           pic 9(9)    comp    value   external gethostbyname.@ 01  io$_acpcontrol          pic 9(9)    comp    value   external io$_acpcontrol.i@ 01  ss$_endoffile           pic 9(9)    comp    value   external ss$_endoffile.@ 01  ss$_badparam            pic 9(9)    comp    value   external
 ss$_badparam.sL 01  ss$_normal              pic 9(9)    comp    value   external ss$_normal.- 01  sys_status              pic 9(9)    comp.o * 	 01  iosb.u-     03  cond_val            pic 9(4)    comp.r%     03                      pic x(6).t *n- 01  inet_chan               pic 9(4)    comp.p< 01  eof                     pic x               value   "N".& 01  in_name                 pic x(50).- 01  in_len                  pic 9(4)    comp. - 01  out_len                 pic 9(4)    comp.r 01  out_string.u-     03  host_name           pic 9(9)    comp.h-     03  host_aliases        pic 9(9)    comp. -     03  host_addrtype       pic 9(9)    comp.--     03  host_addrlen        pic 9(9)    comp.0-     03  host_addresses      pic 9(9)    comp..(     03                      pic x(1004).- 01  item_start              pic 9(9)    comp.s- 01  item_len                pic 9(9)    comp.i 01  offset_string."     03  ra_1                pic x."     03  ra_2                pic x."     03  ra_3                pic x."     03  ra_4                pic x.1 01  item_offset                         redefinesr-     offset_string           pic 9(9)    comp. & 01  rem_addr                pic x(32).- 01  rem_addr_len            pic 9(4)    comp.t *u procedure division.k kick_off section.i 00.f     call "sys$assign" &         using   by descriptor   "_bg:")                 by reference    inet_chano'                 by value        0, 0, 0m         giving  sys_status.iA     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value- sys_status.,  I     display "Enter Nodename: " line 1 column 1 erase screen no advancing.uB     accept in_name reversed bold protected at end move "Y" to eof.  &     perform dump_host until eof = "Y". *0 fini.3A     call "sys$dassgn" using by value inet_chan giving sys_status. A     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value  sys_status..  
     stop run.0 *8 dump_host section. 00.h#     if in_name = spaces go to fini.s  &     if in_name is not a_valid_nodename.         display "Illegal character(s) entered"         go to fini.        call "str$trim"n0         using   by descriptor   in_name, in_name&                 by reference    in_len         giving  sys_status.nA     if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by valuea sys_status.a       call "sys$qiow"y<         using   by value        0, inet_chan, io$_acpcontrol$                 by reference    iosb#                 by value        0,0c@                 by descriptor   gethostbyname, in_name(1:in_len)'                 by reference    out_lena*                 by descriptor   out_string#                 by value        0,0          giving  sys_status.t  ;     if sys_status = ss$_normal move cond_val to sys_status.o     evaluate    sys_status6         when    ss$_normal      perform format_displayI         when    ss$_badparam    display "Increase the size of Out_String"u6         when    ss$_endoffile   display "Unknown Node"I         when    other           call "lib$stop" using by value sys_statuss     end-evaluate.h *a fini.t,     display "Enter Nodename: " no advancing.B     accept in_name reversed bold protected at end move "Y" to eof. *f format_display section.u 00. *     if (host_addrtype not = ucx$c_af_inet)*     or (host_addrlen  not = 4            )*         display "Unknown address type/len"'         display "Can't handle af_inet6"t         go to fini.# *+ * Get official host name *-     if host_name not = zeros*         add 1, host_name giving item_start         move zeros to item_len<         inspect out_string(item_start:(out_len - host_name))E             tallying item_len for characters before initial low-valuerG         display 'Host Name is "', out_string(item_start:item_len), '"'.  *+ * Dump aliases *-     if host_aliases not = zerose-         add 1, host_aliases giving item_starto+         perform until item_start >= out_lenc:             move out_string(item_start:4) to offset_string"             if item_offset = zeros*                 move out_len to item_start             else&                 move zeros to item_len?                 inspect out_string((item_offset + 1):(out_len -t
 item_offset))oC                     tallying item_len for characters before initial 	 low-valuel?                 display 'Alias is "', out_string((item_offset +y 1):item_len), '"' #                 add 4 to item_start              end-if         end-perform. *+ * Dump Addresses *-!     if host_addresses not = zerosc@         move out_string((host_addresses + 1):4) to offset_string,         add 1, item_offset giving item_start2         perform until item_start >= host_addresses:             move out_string(item_start:4) to offset_string&             if item_offset not = zeros                 call "sys$fao"A                     using       by descriptor   "Trying address:-  !@UB.!@UB.!@UB.!@UB"<                                 by reference    rem_addr_len8                                 by descriptor   rem_addrF                                 by reference    ra_1, ra_2, ra_3, ra_4*                     giving      sys_status.                 if sys_status not = ss$_normal=                     call "lib$stop" using by value sys_statusc                 end-if0                 display rem_addr(1:rem_addr_len)             end-if             add 4 to item_startl         end-perform. *  fini.  *s end program get_host.    ;MACRO definition file           .title get_host_def            .library /inet/r           $inetsymdef     GLOBAL         $inetacpfsymdef          $inetacpsymdef  :         gethostbyname == <inetacp$c_hostent_offset * 256 + inetacp_func$c_gethostbyname>u           .end    8 Jamie Stallwood <jamie@project76.co.uk> wrote in message2 news:cta3vt88o4qklv44mr1fn84adori2ldrul@4ax.com...G > If anybody has any examples in FORTRAN of using the INETACP functionslG > with QIO in FORTRAN, I would receive them most gratefully! Especiallyc! > if they use the function above!. >  > Thanks > Jamie P Stallwoodc   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 05:00:14 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: Virtual Terminals and suppressing error messagesm, Message-ID: <3BF6352D.D3EC3B4F@videotron.ca>   DigiDemon wrote:K > Just 2 quick questions...anyway to enable virutal terminals with OpenVMS?d  G IT is documented , I think in the decnet (4) manual in the section thatnS decscribes examples on how to setup various DECNET links, in this case DDCMP links.m  	 MC SYSGEN . SYSGEN> Connect VTA0/noadaptor/driver=ttdriver   and  SET TERM TXB7 /Disconnect/Perm    J >  Also, I was wondering if there's a way to suppress error messages...forC > example during a copy operation...any way to kill these?  Thanks!l   HELP SET MESSAGE1 something like SET MESSAGE/NOID/NOSEVERITY/NOTEXTf   you could also try o DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT NLA0: COPY  badfile newfiley   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2001 10:59:18 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)D Subject: Re: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111171059.262e93af@posting.google.com>   l jbecker@ui.urban.org (Jim Becker) wrote in message news:<c113b52c.0111161533.67f1deb8@posting.google.com>...k > "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<9t1bs1$ol5$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>...e > [snip]M > > My experience of those with MCSEs is that they are inflexible. They can'te  > > think out of the MCSE box... > > ? > > It's been fun sometimes watching MCSEs (I have no formal NThH > > qualiications whatsoever) do something that you know from experienceL > > (the best teacher!) won't work, after you've told them it won't work and > > they insist that it will...o > A > Speaking as both an MCSE holder and a longtime VMS kinda guy...n > G > My experience with many MCSEs is that they tend to have the followinga > problems: A > - They've learned only the Microsoft textbook answers, suitables@ > primarily for normal conditions or textbook environments. TheyD > illustrate the important difference between knowing the answer and > understanding the answer.rE > - In some cases, all they've really demonstrated is successful exam1D > preparation, as opposed to successful acquisition of knowledge and	 > skills.:F > - They mostly came to NT from "below" (desktop environments) insteadD > of from "above" (data center environments). As a result, many dataH > center ideas and expectations are alien to them. Even some NT featuresH > are alien enough where they fail to grasp how to use them effectively.G > - In some cases, having an MCSE has given them an over-inflated senseo$ > of their own level of achievement. >  oI > > Of course, no disrespect intended to those of you with MCSEs that can H > > think 'out of the box' - probably because you used to work on a nice > > flexible" > > operating system like VMS ;-)  > [snip] > H > Thanks for not painting ALL MCSEs with the same brush. I've found thatD > VMS people tend to have little difficulty learning NT concepts (asH > observed when giving OJT and during the "Windows NT for OpenVMS SystemH > Managers" seminar I used to give at CETS/DECUS). OTOH, I've found thatG > people without a data center background often have trouble picking ups$ > on NT's non-desktop-like features. > F > And I'm not anti-certification. There are self-styled NT experts whoF > scoff at certification, but I find that they sometimes have big gapsD > or even errors in their NT knowledge. At least if someone has beenC > through certification, you know they've been exposed to a certain- > range of knowledge.   G if you are talking about the blue screen concept, then thanks, but thate+ is one concept I would rather not learn ...s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 05:16:01 -0500@- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tD Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!, Message-ID: <3BF638DF.5757B53E@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote:eE > There's been some conjecture that IBM knows how to promote multipleaI > operating systems, letting the customer decide what they want, and theny% > make money servicing the customer. s  K Another aspect: if VMS's customer base and applications do not overlap thattH much IBM's product suites then adding VKS to its product portfolio would/ expand its product portfolio and customer base.W  I For instance, if AS400s are used in hotels and departmental banking, then1J bringing in VMS with manufacturing and telecom wouldn't really overlap theK AS400 much. As long as your new product is profitable, why not expland yourD product portfolio ?1  H In such a setup, they would probably give the VMS and Tandem groups someK independance perhaps even letting them compete against IBM product at timest* (eithert way the money comes back to IBM).   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Nov 2001 05:41:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)lD Subject: RE: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!3 Message-ID: <Tl1malYZ8KJs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEHGDJAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:qJ > I haven't really followed this thread, but I don't believe that Power PCI > architecture supports backwards addressing (also know as little Endian)   9 IBM is certainly capable of adding little-endian support.r  K > but more importantly is there some substance to this subject matter or isi  > it mere subjunctive ramblings.   Come on, Tom.  This is Usenet !-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:27:02 GMTn. From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com>D Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!? Message-ID: <alvJ7.25030$RG1.12319696@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>r   Tom Linden writes:L > > I haven't really followed this thread, but I don't believe that Power PCK > > architecture supports backwards addressing (also know as little Endian)m   Larry Kilgallen repliedr; > IBM is certainly capable of adding little-endian support.   C PowerPC hardware is already bi-endian, as are Alpha, Mips, Itanium,cA and I think Sparc.  Little-endian support was added to Power backc= when PowerPC was jointly defined by IBM and Apple, to be ableo to host OS/2 and WindowsNT.p   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:48:10 +0000 (UTC)T From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukD Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!+ Message-ID: <9t60rq$4qc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>n  \ In article <3BF638DF.5757B53E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >David Froble wrote:F >> There's been some conjecture that IBM knows how to promote multipleJ >> operating systems, letting the customer decide what they want, and then& >> make money servicing the customer.  >sL >Another aspect: if VMS's customer base and applications do not overlap thatI >much IBM's product suites then adding VKS to its product portfolio wouldd0 >expand its product portfolio and customer base. >aJ >For instance, if AS400s are used in hotels and departmental banking, thenK >bringing in VMS with manufacturing and telecom wouldn't really overlap the3L >AS400 much. As long as your new product is profitable, why not expland your >product portfolio ? >aI >In such a setup, they would probably give the VMS and Tandem groups someiL >independance perhaps even letting them compete against IBM product at times+ >(eithert way the money comes back to IBM).h    0 From a posting a few months ago to this group :-   "o  3  From: Terry C. Shannon (terryshannon@mediaone.net)e<  Subject: Re: The death of VMS has been greatly exaggerated   Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  Date: 2001-07-12 21:40:59  PST m    < "Mark Daniel" <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message) news:3B4E7923.AF7B9B52@wasd.vsm.com.au...- > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:1 > 8< snip 8<P > > Stranger things have happened. IBM has sold more than its share of GS-SeriesM > > systems. One Big Win for Big Blue was down in Florida. CPQ bid a HimalayaeL > > NSK system, IBM countered with a GS-Series running VMS. Big Blue won the > > bid. >w3 > This is not strange.  This is positively bizarre.M8 > Is it listed on Compaq's OpenVMS Success Stories page?  K Oh, I don't think so. T'was a Compaq loss and an IBM Global Services win. A 5 success story for VMS, but not one for Compaq itself!t   "o  I If IBM Global services can sell VMS systems when they don't own the OS I hK wouldn't think they would have much problem selling VMS systems if they didn own it.n    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:51:49 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oD Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!> Message-ID: <VsxJ7.204537$YL3.62547576@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>   > A > And you think perhaps IBM has no compiler talent of their own??s > E > I may be wrong, but I think IBM getting what's left of Compaq wouldwD > be a good thing.  A lot better than what is likely to happen to it  > if the HP merger goes through. >T > bill >e     Bill,p  J You don't have to buy the WHOLE company to get what you might want. Once aK company is 'in play', many things become negotiable. If IBM wanted OpenVMS,sJ all they'd have to do is offer to buy VMS from Compaq and the Compaq Board& would be legally bound to consider it.  H If HP/Compaq want to be king of Wintel, let them sell OpenVMS before any merger goes through.  K Hell, if the real numbers on VMS revenues and profitability are ok, I mighteH offer to buy OpenVMS from them. At least there'd be somebody comitted toK marketing the stuff, and if Alpha cpu's didn't survive then a port to Power  or Itanic could be considered.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.640 ************************