1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 18 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 642       Contents:. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again department
 Re: Ghoti :-) 2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!; Re: Intel bought Digital a few years ago says Craig Barrett " Re: Island Customers - PLEASE READ Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha> Re: Please mention which country when you have items for sale!& Re: Some merger issues (long - sorry!)E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org ; Re: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading ... ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! % Re: Welcome To Microsoft's IT Academy  Re: what to do with old alpha's   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:36:34 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department - Message-ID: <VA.000004bf.718e9a7f@bluewin.ch>   < In article <3BF65EAE.96C8A522@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: M > > A: As a result of this deal, we may become the number one PC manufacturer  > > in the industry. > P > When Air Canada inherited the remains of Canadian Airlines, it quickly claimedO > that it would become the world's 10th largest airline with the simple math of N > combinin the statistics of Canadian with those of Air Canada.  But it didn'tK > think that many customers would move over to any other airline. Those who O > traveled with smaller Canadian Airline hated Air Canada so they would want to M > choose any other carrier than Air Canada. As a Result, Air Canada went from O > about 85% monopoly last year to just under 70% until a few weeks ago when its $ > main competitor stopped operating. >   - Why did their main competitor stop operating?    <Rant warning>P Airlines are a twitchy point over here at the moment, with the demise/rescue of O Swissair. Apparently the idiots at the top wanted to be the Number One airline  G in the world. You only have to look at Frankfurt airport (dominated by  O Lufthansa) and Heathrow (British Airways), and repeat that theme in most other  J countries to see that it was a crazy ambition. Let's not visit the Sabena P takeover - oh well, why not?. It's nearly 20 years ago since I read that Sabena J had to employ 2 people for every job, due to strong unions and 2 official Q languages (I am sure that you as a Canadian recognize the problem). That doesn't    make for a competitive business.  Q Various figures have been mentioned about job losses - 2.5K, 4.5K, 10K, with the  O most pessimistic being 50K when suppliers are taken into account. That's a lot  5 of jobs for any country, but this is a small country.   L And as Alan Greig mentioned this week, EasyJet are making money doing cheap N flights, British Airways with their top price flights are looking very dodgy. N Actually I'm experiencing a certain amount of Schadenfreude seeing BA go down N the plughole, as over the years I got sick of their arrogance, lousy service, M and high prices. Consistently billing themselves as "voted World's Favourite  N Airline" - not by anyone I know. Maybe by first class passengers, but whoops, 3 there's a recession and they are fast disappearing.  </Rant warning>   O Sorry about that, but it paints a picture of power hungry executives who think  H they are top dog and somewhere along the way lose touch with what their  customers want.   O > Similarly, when Compaq ceases to exist, there is no reason to expect that all N > customers who used to buy from Compaq would instantly choose to buy from HP.P > HP may not become the number 1 PC maker for very long. And when they drop downE > to #2, it will be a big blow to their ego and Carly will be labeled 4 > incompentent for allowing HP to lose market share. > @ I sincerely hope that they don't destroy our careers on the way.  M > > o  Increased negotiating power with suppliers, which translates into cost 9 > >    savings that can be passed along to our customers.  > @ > But is that where HP/Compaq are at a disadvantage over Dell ?   Q I get the impression that they think they have done a sharp business deal, along  P the lines of scrapping Alpha in return for favours (e.g. future discounts) from N Intel and then, hey presto, they are suddenly twice the size and are going to 2 get twice the favours that Intel expected to give. > L > > o  Increased ability to influence future product development and promote> > >    customer concerns with powerhouses Intel and Microsoft. > O > They should go to the Comedy Hour or the Gong Show for such sentences. Compaq P > didn't protect customer's interests during the Microsoft trial, they were 100% > behind Microsoft.  > P And IIRC, one of the filings to the SEC pointed out that very support as a plus $ in terms of future dealings with M$.  E Support from Intel and M$ - wow, we'll really be able to hammer Dell!   N > > o  Increased opportunities to sell related products: printers, PDA's, etc. > C > Funny, Palm managed quite well with its PDAs without selling PCs.  > N > > And we all recognize that the role PC's play in the office and in the homeN > > is changing. Being #1 means we've got the ability to lead this transition,( > > to influence the direction it takes. > N > Compaq had its chance. It had Alpha it could have made industry standard andO > truly change the industry and save Intel the trouble of finishing its bloated P > IA64. Intel could have fabbed the Alphas and still made some money. But CompaqL > chose not to do so and be a good dog and follow what its masters Intel and > Microsoft told them to do. > L And the trouble is, whilst everyone else seems to be looking for short term Q profits, Intel is a capital intensive operation and must look to long term plans  P to assure its future. M$ has long term plans too, as its moves towards .NET and  the rental model clearly show. ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 07:29:30 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department , Message-ID: <3BF7A9A8.BE148581@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote: / > Why did their main competitor stop operating?   H Many reasons. But one of the big ones was the predatory practices of theK bigger Air Canada which would dump capacity on routes that competed with CP H with the government not taking any steps to prevent this from happening.  D (Look at Microsoft who is now dumping X-BOXes on the market at belowM production costs, yet the USA government isn't doing anything to prevent this  very overt dumping.)  R > I get the impression that they think they have done a sharp business deal, alongQ > the lines of scrapping Alpha in return for favours (e.g. future discounts) from O > Intel and then, hey presto, they are suddenly twice the size and are going to 4 > get twice the favours that Intel expected to give.    K What percentage of costs are the result of purchasing Intel gear ? And just L how much lower does Compaq/HP pay for that gear compared to Dell ? I suspectN that the main difference between Dell and Compaq is not in the hardware but in management and distribution.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:50:57 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department - Message-ID: <VA.000004c3.71d2b52d@bluewin.ch>   = In article <3BF67AF9.EDCAD485@dplanet.ch>, John McLean wrote:  > Paul Sture wrote:  > > G > > In article <MPG.165c53932db105cf9896bf@news-server.neo.rr.com>, Joe  > > Matuscak wrote:  > > > Take a look at:  > > > 3 > > > http://www.calc.org/news/display.php?id=61241  > 3 > Paul quoted the Compaq/Hp submission as saying ..  > M > > A: As a result of this deal, we may become the number one PC manufacturer  > > in the industry. > C > On Compaq's track record with PCs, this will also make the merged " > company the number one LOSER !   > 8 Here's another quote, this time from Intel, courtesy of  www.theinquirer.org/16110107   ___ B Ralph Bond, Intel's consumer education manager, predicts even moreF innovation. "We're making significant progress with speech recognitionE and voice control for home PCs," he said. "Eventually, we may be able 5 to speak to our PCs and have them respond instantly."  ___   - (There's that nasty "innovation" word again.)   M Absolute claptrap. I was successfully using an IBM voice recognition product  I over 4 (FOUR) years ago, for both commands and email text. It would spew  D rubbish every time I put my coffee mug down, but was otherwise fine.  = (and before you ask, it would happily type out FORMAT C:) :-)  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:26:57 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: Ghoti :-)- Message-ID: <VA.000004c2.71bcbc54@bluewin.ch>   : In article <3BF64307.D1C310A1@Omond.net>, Roy Omond wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:  > ( > > > And then there is always "ghoti"!! > > > D > > What is "ghoti" please? I got a gazillion hits on various searchB > > engines, but not a single one I looked at told me what it was. > > > And there I was thinking you're a native English speaker :-) > - Yorkshire. Some would not call it English :-)   7 For a sample try www.stockdill.freeserve.co.uk/moor :-)   E (Oh and hit the Home or Places links on that page to see some rather  ) nice scenery, most of which I know well).  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:48:07 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! - Message-ID: <VA.000004be.70f462c2@bluewin.ch>   H In article <20011117152212.S13593-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill  Gunshannon wrote: ( > On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, Paul Sture wrote: > F > > In article <9sv6ce$nro$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > ( > > > And then there is always "ghoti"!! > > > D > > What is "ghoti" please? I got a gazillion hits on various searchB > > engines, but not a single one I looked at told me what it was. > >  > ' > A phonetic english spelling of "fish"  >  > "gh" from laugh  > "o"  from women  > "ti" from action > K > Isn't english a wonderful language!!  And people here wonder why I prefer 
 > German!! > K An old saying of mine: Pronounce a German word correctly and I know how to  - spell it so can look it up in the dictionary.   J Not true in either English or French. At least French speakers understand K the difference between the written and spoken word, as they will typically  @ ask you to spell your name / address / whatever to get it right.  ? Swiss German, OTOH, is a somewhat different kettle of ghoti :-)  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:57:35 GMT ' From: bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> D Subject: Re: Intel bought Digital a few years ago says Craig Barrett0 Message-ID: <3BF7B150.3456942E@bellatlantic.net>  H I believe Alan's statements are the more accurate.  I believe a detailed review of the record will show: . Intel paid Digital a sum of coin of the realm.  Intel acquired the fab facility.C Intel acquired the legal right to produce the things being produced  in the fab. : Intel became unencumbered as to the use of DEC proprietaryA technologies that Intel had already incorporated into its product B line, perhaps without proper legal agreements to allow them to do 
 just that.> Thus Alan's concise and accurate conclusion: Intel bought DEC.< A more precise definition might be possible, but it would be no where near as succient. vr bb   David Silvers wrote: > I > Actually, they bought a FAB facility and some licenses to technology...  > 4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:k075vt4s16saf9r93dtfl3d75sll0e7c02@4ax.com...3 > > http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/14687.html  > > F > > Barrett: Well, we bought Digital Equipment a few years ago, and itD > > came with the first generation of the StrongArm processor. We'reI > > basically in the process of introducing the second generation of that F > > -- that's the X-Scale processor. In '02, you'll see that come out. > >  > > -- > > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:50:48 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>+ Subject: Re: Island Customers - PLEASE READ - Message-ID: <VA.000004c0.719ba598@bluewin.ch>   G In article <tvcnubmuuvfhde@news.supernews.com>, Island Computers wrote: J > If you have purchased DEC or Compaq computer hardware from us within theA > last twelve months, please remember it is still under warranty. J > We have come to find that a few people are having issues wih things like? > hard drives failing (not many people) and are not telling us. I > We have an excellent reputation for honoring our 12 month warranty - we 8 > replace product as soon as we are notified of failure.2 > So please... IF you have a problem - let us knowN > European customers will recieve product within 4 days via Fedex and Americas > within 3 days  >  Many thanks :-)  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 03:08:58 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Life After Alpha , Message-ID: <3BF76C98.D80A1FEA@videotron.ca>   "Doug W." wrote: > O > While there has been much speculation on how VMS customers would react to the Q > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are large VMS customers actually Q > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, could you post a description N > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, waiting for IPF, planningN > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just ignoring the situation?  J My gut feeling is "stay the course with an eye out for future migration to something else".  N This  isn't too different than before, except the eye is more opened now sinceP they know that within 5-8 years, a migration off of Alpha will become necessary.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:50:48 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: Life After Alpha - Message-ID: <VA.000004c1.719ba5a2@bluewin.ch>   H In article <20011117173302.19275.00000625@mb-ch.aol.com>, Doug W. wrote:O > While there has been much speculation on how VMS customers would react to the Q > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are large VMS customers actually Q > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, could you post a description N > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, waiting for IPF, planningN > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just ignoring the situation? > G I'm not authorized to speak on behalf of my firm (which is large), but  - personally, I am waiting to see what happens.  ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:11:56 -0500 - From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>  Subject: Re: Life After Alpha , Message-ID: <3BF7DDCC.9400E141@peoplepc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > L > My gut feeling is "stay the course with an eye out for future migration to > something else".  8 Actually, my management is just acting like an ostrich !   --    
 Jack Patteeuw    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:33:39 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> G Subject: Re: Please mention which country when you have items for sale! ) Message-ID: <3BF79C94.504977AD@Omond.net>   
 MikeWJ wrote:    > Chris, > > > Sorry 'bout that. I'm located in the heart of St. Louis, Mo.   (Pet peeve of mine too)   ; Yeah, but which *country*.  Please don't assume we all know A where Mo is !  I had to look it up in my world atlas to find that B it's in Sweden (sure looks like a very small place), just north of@ Bjasta.  I can't imagine that it's got a suburb called St.Louis,% but then again I've never been to Mo.   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 03:06:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>0/ Subject: Re: Some merger issues (long - sorry!)r, Message-ID: <3BF76BFF.44E527C4@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:F > between business unit representatives of both companies, Ms. FiorinaE > contacted Mr. Capellas in June 2001 to discuss Compaq's interest inn > licensing HP-UX.  N That is interesting. Start to THINK about a merger in end of June, a couple ofN dys before the Alpha murder announcement and then in early september, announceN a done deal that has been in the works for months to a point where most of the; assimilation was planned before the bankers were called in.r  K I have this strange feeling that the talks between HP and Compaq began much K before that. I wonder if Compaq had targetted HP as a buyer long before andMM offered itself to HP. I find it rather unnerving that in the 2 months betweencJ the end of june and early september, HP and Compaq could have wrapped up aK merger deal and gotten the accountants to see if it was a mistake for HP to0J buy Compaq, and gotten the bankers involved to structure the deal etc etc.  O Or is HP buying Compaq in the dark not really knowing what it is getting into ?t  2 > After several days of deliberation, Mr. CapellasE > contacted Ms. Fiorina to suggest that the synergies between the twotJ > companies were broader than HP-UX and that HP consider whether a broader3 > strategic relationship might be a viable option."y  K read: after a few drinks, Curly though he could merge with Carly, but CarlylL wasn't drunk enough and interpreted his proposal as a company merger instead& of the body merger ... :-) :-) ;-) :-)  N Note that if the initial meeting took place on June 22, "after several days ofK deliberation" would have put this after the Alpha murder announcement. ThisrK would make it look like the Alpha deal was negotiated well before Curly metsI with Carly since such deals are generally not negotiated in a few hours.    F If Curly negotiated the Alpha murder in only a few hours, it is eitherJ absolutely stupid to kill off your main profit generator, or it was a wellF planned strategic move where the impacts of murdering Alpha were fullyN considered and thought to be less than the benefits of giving the dead body to Intel for dissection.y  G > A: Not at all. That decision was made long before any discussion of at	 > merger.o  M Curly to Carly months before, during a cocktail party: "Tell me something, ifrM I wanted to make Compaq attractive as a takeover target, what should I do ?".oM Carly responds with "Get rid of that Alpha thing and get in bed with Intel...   N (read: Curly's equivalent to "if I wanted you to go out on a date with me, howN much weight should I lose to be attractive to you ?". Remember that Palmer hadI asked the same question to Pfeiffer during the 3 years that preceeded ther/ official announcement of Compaq buying Digital.     E Another thing to consider: the announcement that life support will behM widthdrawn from Tru64. Surely Compaq had considered this decision well beforeh June 22.  J Again, I get the distinct feeling that on June 22, Curly came prepared notK with flowers, but with a well detailed proposal and engagement ring, with a K list of all the things that Compaq would sacrifice to show its love for HP.n& (Alpha, Tru64 and go knows what else).      I > and operating synergies".   This supposes that the merger will begin to G > realize the benefits of these synergies in the fourth quarter of HP's I > fiscal year 2002, but will not fully realize these synergies until HP'st > fiscal year 2004.d  N Ha ! What a joke. Anyone who believes that "synergies" thing is naive. MergersL of large corporations do not create any synergies, they only make one largerK and more bloated company. And lets not talk about the turf wars on which ofHJ the HP or Compaq products will survive etc etc. They will be mired in that" merger stuff for more than a year.  J Meanwhile, customer won't know whether to buy the HP product or the CompaqK product, not knowing which product line will survive in the longer term. SosF Dell or IBM will look like more solid offerings for wintel crap stuff.  I > ** WOW !  That's a nice bit of crystal-ball gazing.  Maybe they will beeJ > 100% realised and maybe it will be 11.3 billion or maybe it will be more > 100% higher.s  M But they don't even consider the possibioity that synergies won't materialisesM for a long time and that the merger will aleniate many customers. If you wereh8 a Tru64 customer right now, where would you want to go ?  J > - Both pay the other $675 million (within 2 days) if the merger does notG > go ahead because a third-party has made a counter-proposal to acquirecG > the company.  (This applies to mergers that start within 12 months of H > any breakdown between HP and Compaq or that such a merger is concluded > within 2 years).  M IS that legal ? If Carly were to have a fight with Curly and call the wedding M off next week, and get all the paper signed to cancel the wedding, why should K that preclude Curly from seeking another mate the day after the wedding was' called off officially ?e  J On the one hand the deal specifies alimony of 675 million if a third partyM gets involved before the deal is completed. That I can understand. But once agI deal is officially off, I don't see why HP should still have some alimonya8 patyments should Compaq find another partner afterwards.  J Can HP really prevent Compaq from merging with someone else for 2 years ifK Carly decides that the wedding is off ? That would be tantamount to a deathaL sentence for Compaq. For Compaq to agree to those terms, they must have been very desperate.4      > The merger may be cancelled if7 > - the BoD accepts an alternative acquisition proposaloF > - the BoD starts negotiations with a third party regards acquisition  8 Doesn't that contradict the 675 million penalty clause ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:42:43 GMTv* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org@ Message-ID: <71OJ7.27989$dk.1940770@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  - GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in message,% news:3BF60B53.CE34B074@cumulus.com...M > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >o > > GreyCloud wrote: > >h > > >vK > > > It isn't what is advanced but more politically damaging that makes it  > > > highly classified. > >hL > > you mean, it might contradict the constitutional rights of USA citizens? > > Something like that? > >t >  > You can surmise that... yes.  D I read the above interchange as suggesting that it's more likely theK mechanics of the proceedings (rather than any 'sensitive' intelligence thatoB might be involved) that might be damaging, and if so I agree.  OurK government has put itself in a situation where it absolutely *must* control I the trial in a manner reminiscent of the best Soviet 'show trials' of the,D bad old days, and this need is at least somewhat inconsistent with aI judicial system that prides itself on its independence from the Executive  branch.a  K A normal civilian trial, for example, would immediately come up against thetL issue of venue:  just as trial locations are often moved to a different cityD or even out of state to ensure fairness for a defendant accused of aI particularly heinous crime, in this case it would be eminently reasonable H for the defense to request trial outside the U.S. - and not only is thisK diametrically opposed to the intent the Shrub has already expressed, but itcK would raise the real possibility that if the all the evidence is as tenuous.F as that which has already been made public Bin Laden might actually be3 acquitted, either on some technicality or for real.   H Consider the implications of that.  It would, for example, retroactivelyG eliminate at least the stated *legal* justification for our invasion of.J another country and deposition of its government, not to mention highlightI the cavalier nature of our presumption of the right to go after terrorism ? wherever we happen to think we see it, hard evidence be damned.c  L A military trial eliminates all that uncertainty and danger (danger at leastL to the world reputations of our fearless leaders).  While our government mayH state that the reason for it is national security, I place about as muchK credence in that as I do in Compaq's assertions that Alpha had to be killedp< because it just couldn't keep up with the Itanic juggernaut.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:23:22 -0500_- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>iN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF7C459.8B8C1D9F@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > A normal civilian trial, for example, would immediately come up against thee > issue of venue:   G So, they choose Amsterdam. Bin Laden  not convicted due to insufficienttM evidence and set free. But CIA would be hard at work. Imagine hoe discredited0K he would be if some not too islamic pictures were to be taken of him in thegJ process of receiving the services of a hooker. And once discredited to hisN peers, Bin Laden would unfortunatly be severely injurd in a car *accident* andN be relegated to being a vegetable in a hospital for the remainder of his life.    9 By the way, the UK government has published its evidence:d, http://www.pm.gov.uk/default.asp?pageid=5322  I It does start by saying that this is not evidence that would be of use in J court. It seems to be all circumstantial evidence. Just because two peopleK from Al Queda travel to Prague at about the same time doesn't actually meansM that they met, does it ? If two Citibank empoloyees travel to New York on the-F same day but from different cities, does it mean that they will meet ?    J > Consider the implications of that.  It would, for example, retroactivelyI > eliminate at least the stated *legal* justification for our invasion ofcL > another country and deposition of its government, not to mention highlightK > the cavalier nature of our presumption of the right to go after terrorismnA > wherever we happen to think we see it, hard evidence be damned.h  J Yep. But public opinion would be convinced that Bin laden was responsible.N Just like public opinion was convinced that OJ Simpson did it, even though the/ courts were able to criminally find him guilty.s  N > A military trial eliminates all that uncertainty and danger (danger at least5 > to the world reputations of our fearless leaders). e  H I don't think it will ge to that. Bin Laden will either suceed in hiding- somewhere, or will die before being captured.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:45:49 -0000o3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>iD Subject: Re: VMS is superior, but noone knows!  Stunning reading .../ Message-ID: <9t8s06$4t3$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagef7 news:d7791aa1.0111171059.262e93af@posting.google.com... 4 > jbecker@ui.urban.org (Jim Becker) wrote in message9 news:<c113b52c.0111161533.67f1deb8@posting.google.com>...t [...]j > >RJ > > Thanks for not painting ALL MCSEs with the same brush. I've found thatF > > VMS people tend to have little difficulty learning NT concepts (asJ > > observed when giving OJT and during the "Windows NT for OpenVMS SystemJ > > Managers" seminar I used to give at CETS/DECUS). OTOH, I've found thatI > > people without a data center background often have trouble picking upt& > > on NT's non-desktop-like features.  K Well, I realise that some of you guys might have MCSEs, just in case. Sure,iJ out of any exam-based qualification, you are going to have people who knowK the answer, but don't understand it, and those who understand it - but in ahL multiple choice exam, if they got identical scores, how could you tell which
 was which?  I As for eschewing the command line, that's what the MCSE people I met werei like:dJ "Oh, I don't like using the command line. It's old-fashioned. I don't likeL all that typing". So, they'd rather create a user 'manually' rather than use; the batch file I created because it involved using a CLI...t8 Creating a user at our site involves several operations: - Create the account# - Create the user's home directory.c. - Create a directory for the user's NT profile2 - Create a directory for a Windows Terminal Server, - Set permissions on these 3 directories [1]  - Add the user to various groups* - Set the terminal server profile path [2]  J Without my script, this takes 10 minutes or so, and involves having to log onF to one of the machines. With my script, it took 1 or 2 [3] minutes andI _required no input_ once you started it running! Yet they do it manually,d. and get it wrong, or forget to do something...  H Of course, some of the really secure systems out there might not want toE automate things like user creation in scripts for paranoia reasons ;)e   >pI > if you are talking about the blue screen concept, then thanks, but thate- > is one concept I would rather not learn ...e  - Hmmm. At least a TYPE won't crash VMS ;-) [3]-   -Malcolm    L [1] Not as easy as it sounds: due to a "limitation" of NT, you usually can'tH set the permissions straight after account creation, and instead have to loopC round and catch the failure condition, then wait, then try again...aG [2] Uses a patched executable from Terminal Server (patched to run on a H workstation). How many [textbook-taught] MCSEs could do that?? I think I( patched it using Write on Windows 3.1 ;)J [3] VMS has had similarly 'bozo' faults, but they are rare. The last one I cannK think of would be the one that involved a certain DCL command and a certainh= parameter that was too long (not wanting to be too specific).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 03:20:47 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>iD Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!, Message-ID: <3BF76F5C.20335278@videotron.ca>   John Eisenschmidt wrote:W > In the end, it would come down to IBM looking at a cost benefit analysis and decidingo\ > whether they needed their old competitors OS and customers, or just their old competitors ( > customers migrating to their own OSes.  N You forgot one thing: preventing the bigger HP from overtaking IBM. IBM is theN smart old man waiting silently in the wings watching the young kids make theirJ silly mistakes. With HP and Compaq blindly going where Intel and MicrosoftJ tell them to, they would be more than happy to get rid of the systems they* think are worthless such as VMS and Tru64.  N So IBM could buy those now. And when HP wakes up and realises it was a mistakeK to go wintel all the way, they won't have anything left to turn to and willsL remain just another Dell or Gateway while IBM will maintain its overwhelming$ lead in the real entrerprise market.  N If HP keeps some enterprise systems in the basement on life support, when theyD wake up to the unprofitable wintel crap, they can always grow up andN re-activate their real enterprise systems and then before a serious competitor to IBM.-    L I would see IBM buying VMS more as a means to prevent HP from growing to the size of IBM.H And to IBM, it would be good to adopt all those stray customers who, forK years, were ignored by Compaq and IBM would only have to show just a littlen8 bit of affection for those customers to really like IBM.  K The biggest irony is that VMS customers have historically tended to despise N IBM. But they have been so poorly treated by Compaq/Digital that IBM would now be seen as a saviour.d   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Nov 2001 00:27:08 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)O. Subject: Re: Welcome To Microsoft's IT Academy= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0111180027.1e537af3@posting.google.com>   q "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in message news:<SZhJ7.180819$Lg.8701990@sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com>...kJ > MS has the right idea and I hope their program is a success.  Perhaps itI > will grow into real classes on the internals and concepts behind NT forb > advanced students. >    Jack Peacock   I I'm not sure which drugs you are on, or if you simply need to wake up and- "smell the coffee"  M M$ are out to take over the "IT industry" they will not rest until everythingjL that looks as if it "might even" compete is eliminated. This has been proved over any number of times.   E I'm not sure which cartoons you watched as a kid, however M$ are the o essence of evil.  , Why are you reading this newsgroup anyway???   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:10:24 -0500 - From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>e( Subject: Re: what to do with old alpha's, Message-ID: <3BF7DD70.A58085FD@peoplepc.com>   Wim_K wrote: > , > We are migrating from VMS to Unix ( snif )  I Been there, done that !  8 years later we still have VMS (on both VAX andgJ Alpha) and now 2 flavors of Unix (tru64 and Solaris).  Of yeah, at least 37 flavors of WinDoz.  Can you say maintenance nightmare ?n   E > He told me that I had to find out what I could do with those AXP's.e  M I have 2 2100A's running Tru64, just fine.  I would try to negate with Compaqa& on trading your VMS license for Tru64.  I As for learning Unix, think of it as job security.  The trickiest part tovK really grasp is automounting.  You must first understand NFS and NIS beforet trying to tackle automounting.     -- t  
 Jack Patteeuwa   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.642 ************************