1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 19 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 643       Contents: Re: DECUS in many names  Re: DECUS in many names  Re: DEQ bonuses...H Re: Future of DECUS:  HPUS ???? ((Re: What's happen with DECUS Germany?)2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!2 Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger!; Re: Intel bought Digital a few years ago says Craig Barrett ; Re: Intel bought Digital a few years ago says Craig Barrett  Re: ISV's and VMS on Intel Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After AlphaE Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org 4 Re: Virtual Terminals and suppressing error messages; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!  Re: Which Disks are Which? Re: Which Disks are Which?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 01:45:29 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: DECUS in many names' Message-ID: <3BF71609.B22112EB@fsi.net>    Terry C Shannon wrote: > & > On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote: >  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: G > > > And guess what, Compaq no longer regards Encompass as an entitled ( > > > beneficiary of corporate largesse. > > R > > > Well, I'm not interested in popping $90 bucks to fraternize with Windoze and > > > iPAQ users > > P > > A few months ago, I had suggested to VMS MANAGEMENT that a VMS specific userP > > group be formed and be of a global nature to reach people worldwide and alsoM > > suplement the worlk of DFWLUG by making the hobbysist programme available O > > worldwide. Such a group would initially have been electronic only in nature Q > > with on-line registrations, and in exchange for VMS Managemet's support, they P > > would have access to our membership list, thus relieveing Sue's tedious workI > > of maintaining her list of customers interested in VMS. The offer was M > > initially dismissed (not even responded to) and eventually rejected. (eg: ! > > nevert seriously considered).  > > 5 > > Note that there is precedent with www.tru64.org .  > >  > K > Since I am involved with Encompass US management (and DECUS US before it) G > as well as www.tru64.org, permit me to make a couple of observations.  > J > Given the way user groups are structured and organized in the CPQ world,I > it is unlikely that CPQ's Customer Liason Office would be supportive of ) > the creation of another specific group.  > J > That said, I like the idea of a VMS-specific group. Ken Farmer is firingK > up www.openvms.org; perhaps this venue could serve as a forum for the VMS  > community.  ; Does www.tru64.org carry any weight with Compaq management?   2 If so, would www.openvms.org have the same impact?  G If so, do you think we can make enough of a difference to save (us and)  them from themselves?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:43:59 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>  Subject: Re: DECUS in many names< Message-ID: <3e%J7.4114$eh7.2461824@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3BF71609.B22112EB@fsi.net...  > Terry C Shannon wrote: > > ( > > On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote: > >  > > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: I > > > > And guess what, Compaq no longer regards Encompass as an entitled * > > > > beneficiary of corporate largesse. > > > H > > > > Well, I'm not interested in popping $90 bucks to fraternize with Windoze and  > > > > iPAQ users > > > D > > > A few months ago, I had suggested to VMS MANAGEMENT that a VMS
 specific user I > > > group be formed and be of a global nature to reach people worldwide  and alsoE > > > suplement the worlk of DFWLUG by making the hobbysist programme 	 available J > > > worldwide. Such a group would initially have been electronic only in natureE > > > with on-line registrations, and in exchange for VMS Managemet's 
 support, they E > > > would have access to our membership list, thus relieveing Sue's  tedious workK > > > of maintaining her list of customers interested in VMS. The offer was J > > > initially dismissed (not even responded to) and eventually rejected. (eg:# > > > nevert seriously considered).  > > > 7 > > > Note that there is precedent with www.tru64.org .  > > >  > > I > > Since I am involved with Encompass US management (and DECUS US before  it) I > > as well as www.tru64.org, permit me to make a couple of observations.  > > L > > Given the way user groups are structured and organized in the CPQ world,K > > it is unlikely that CPQ's Customer Liason Office would be supportive of + > > the creation of another specific group.  > > L > > That said, I like the idea of a VMS-specific group. Ken Farmer is firingI > > up www.openvms.org; perhaps this venue could serve as a forum for the  VMS  > > community. > = > Does www.tru64.org carry any weight with Compaq management?   K They seem to have paid attention to the last survey we (Ken and I) did. The " more participants, the more clout!   > 4 > If so, would www.openvms.org have the same impact?  L With enough site traffic, I believe so. Ken has a full time job and hence is4 populating openvms.org slower than would be optimal.   > I > If so, do you think we can make enough of a difference to save (us and)  > them from themselves?   6 We can only hope... I think it's worth a shot, though!   cheers,    terry s    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:19:14 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: DEQ bonuses... ? Message-ID: <mBVJ7.30517$RG1.14076924@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>    > > Fabio Cardoso wrote  > > >So, as you see...' > > >"IT IS NOT A TECHNOLOGICAL MERGER" ( > > >It is just another mafia agreement.7 > > >Families Fiorina+Capellas (both italian surnames).    >Duane Sand wrote:> > > Capellas is a Greek surname, according to my Italian wife.   "Tom Linden" wrote: B > I think your Italian wife needs Italian lessons.  It is Italian, > comes from Latin.   @ It's fun to catch her rare mistakes, but this isn't one of them.< Ending words in the sound "as" is very unnatural in Italian,; which came from Latin but isn't Latin.  The Italian version 5 of this surname is spelled "Capella".  The "Capellas" : spelling is used in Greece and Portugal, as shown in Ellis4 Island immigration records online.  Some twenty five; families immigrated via Ellis with variations of this name. ; Half gave their ethnicity as Italian, all using the Capella 9 spelling.  Most of the other half gave their ethnicity or . former residence as Greece, using the Capellas! (or sometimes Kapellas) spelling. 8 Also, there is or was a town in Portugal named Capellas.  : In any event, Carly and Curly get along very well together; and show it in body language and touches.  Hopefully that's 4 merely from their common Mediterranean family roots.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:36:09 +0000 1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> Q Subject: Re: Future of DECUS:  HPUS ???? ((Re: What's happen with DECUS Germany?) 6 Message-ID: <3BF80DA9.7202993E@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  ? In the UK, there are (at least) two HP user groups (one for the G "classic" HP and one for the "classic" Apollo brand IIRC).  Both CUO-UK H and the HP groups are aware of each others' existance and are getting toG know each other.  I am not yet aware of any plans for what might happen  after HP and Compaq become one.  Steve.* (Not speaking for either Compaq or CUO-UK)     Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > = > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message < > news:20011030100005.40429.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com...) > Does exist a HP user group like DECUS ?  > / > What is the future of DECUS / Encompass after  > the merger???? > H > HP does in fact have a user group called INTEREX. Thus far there is no! > impact on DECUS/Encompass/ITUG.    --  G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent like E a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath. A Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'" % 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:45:35 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! ' Message-ID: <3BF8213F.1C5274DA@fsi.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  > I > In article <20011117152212.S13593-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill  > Gunshannon wrote: * > > On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, Paul Sture wrote: > > H > > > In article <9sv6ce$nro$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > * > > > > And then there is always "ghoti"!! > > > > F > > > What is "ghoti" please? I got a gazillion hits on various searchD > > > engines, but not a single one I looked at told me what it was. > > >  > > ) > > A phonetic english spelling of "fish"  > >  > > "gh" from laugh  > > "o"  from women  > > "ti" from action > > M > > Isn't english a wonderful language!!  And people here wonder why I prefer  > > German!! > > L > An old saying of mine: Pronounce a German word correctly and I know how to/ > spell it so can look it up in the dictionary.  > K > Not true in either English or French. At least French speakers understand L > the difference between the written and spoken word, as they will typicallyB > ask you to spell your name / address / whatever to get it right. > A > Swiss German, OTOH, is a somewhat different kettle of ghoti :-)   H From the little I remember (from 1989), is that "Deutsche Suisse"? (100%C certain I spelled that wrong) Out tour guide said that Switzterland F (American/English spelling) had some five "official" languages, one ofB them very close to Classical Latin, others Germanic/Teutonic, some Gallic, ...   E I find it all fascinating, really. If I hadn't become a computer geek H I'd likely have been a linguist. Of course, I'm known for being rather a@ punster, and am often referred to as a "wordsmith" or a "cunning
 linguist".   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:17:22 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! - Message-ID: <VA.000004c4.73d9478b@bluewin.ch>   @ In article <3BF8213F.1C5274DA@fsi.net>, David J. Dachtera wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:  > > K > > In article <20011117152212.S13593-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill  > > Gunshannon wrote: , > > > On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, Paul Sture wrote: > > > J > > > > In article <9sv6ce$nro$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, Bill Gunshannon wrote:	 > > > > > , > > > > > And then there is always "ghoti"!!	 > > > > > H > > > > What is "ghoti" please? I got a gazillion hits on various searchF > > > > engines, but not a single one I looked at told me what it was. > > > >  > > > + > > > A phonetic english spelling of "fish"  > > >  > > > "gh" from laugh  > > > "o"  from women  > > > "ti" from action > > > O > > > Isn't english a wonderful language!!  And people here wonder why I prefer  > > > German!! > > > N > > An old saying of mine: Pronounce a German word correctly and I know how to1 > > spell it so can look it up in the dictionary.  > > M > > Not true in either English or French. At least French speakers understand N > > the difference between the written and spoken word, as they will typicallyD > > ask you to spell your name / address / whatever to get it right. > > C > > Swiss German, OTOH, is a somewhat different kettle of ghoti :-)  > J > From the little I remember (from 1989), is that "Deutsche Suisse"? (100%E > certain I spelled that wrong) Out tour guide said that Switzterland H > (American/English spelling) had some five "official" languages, one ofD > them very close to Classical Latin, others Germanic/Teutonic, some
 > Gallic, ...  > J Four official languages, with approx percentages of people who speak each 	 included:    "Schweizer Deutsch" - 64%  French - 19% Italian - 8%I Romansch (Rhaeto Roman) - 1% - around 60,000 people in canton Graubunden.   O The other 8% are foreigners whose mother tongue is none of the above. Although  K all official languages are equal in principle, in practice Swiss German is  7 dominant, rather to the disdain of the French speakers.   O Swiss German is a spoken rather than written language (except for advertising,  O comedy, poetry etc), with High German being used in writing. That's a pain for  M me, as I rely heavily on the written word when learning a new language. Most  J Swiss Germans can speak High German, and many speak excellent English too.  M The geography has a strong influence (you don't climb over a mountain unless  P you have to), with the result there are a gazillion Swiss German dialects. Even 7 the native speakers have difficulty with some dialects.   G > I find it all fascinating, really. If I hadn't become a computer geek J > I'd likely have been a linguist. Of course, I'm known for being rather aB > punster, and am often referred to as a "wordsmith" or a "cunning > linguist". > I I find it fascinating as well. I too could have enjoyed being a linguist.    ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:27:32 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ; Subject: Re: Hewlett family votes "NO" on HP-Compaq merger! + Message-ID: <3BF851F4.6CC93C4@videotron.ca>    Paul Sture wrote: 8 > Swiss German is a spoken rather than written language   K As I left the business hotel in Zrich on my bike and ventured on the small H roads towards Luzern, it was an interesting thing. I couldn't understandG anything folks said, but I could "read" many of the signs because their & meaning was similar to familiar words: 	bakerie ( bakery==> FOOD !)% 	coiffeur  ( french for hair dresser) I and there was also ghasthous (I think) which was basically guest house ->  small hotel.  M The first store I stopped in was a bakerie. I pointed to some pastries. I had N no idea what the total was, but figured about 2 francs per pastry and gave theN nice looking girl what I thought the amount would be and she gave me change...; never did find out how much each pastry did cost though :-)   K Being on a bike, I had packed small, and had gotten myself a small Lilliput N german-english dictionary (you know those very small ones). I think a few mustN have had some giggles watching me use it. But at one ghasthouse, while waitingM for the meal to be served, I managed to figure out how to ask if the mountain N pass up ahead was opened.  That was at Weissenburg. (not far from Gstaad). TheG next day, I magically switched to the french sector and didn't have any 
 problems ....   @ But I do remember the greeting Gruetzli ? (how is it spelled ?).    M Of course, that was nothing like leaving the comfort of a hotel in Taipei and T venturing on the Taiwan roads. At least in Switzerland, I could read the road signs.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:24:43 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: Intel bought Digital a few years ago says Craig Barrett@ Message-ID: <_VTJ7.29822$dk.2180514@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message* news:3BF7B150.3456942E@bellatlantic.net...J > I believe Alan's statements are the more accurate.  I believe a detailed! > review of the record will show: 0 > Intel paid Digital a sum of coin of the realm." > Intel acquired the fab facility.E > Intel acquired the legal right to produce the things being produced 
 > in the fab. < > Intel became unencumbered as to the use of DEC proprietaryC > technologies that Intel had already incorporated into its product C > line, perhaps without proper legal agreements to allow them to do  > just that.@ > Thus Alan's concise and accurate conclusion: Intel bought DEC.> > A more precise definition might be possible, but it would be > no where near as succient.  G That conclusion (which was not Alan's but his quote from Craig Barrett, L which I suspect Alan offered in irony) would have to be based on the premiseJ that Alpha constituted DEC, rather than merely a portion of it.  I think I- prefer the phrasing "Intel *bought off* DEC."t   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:28:45 GMTe+ From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@home.com>rD Subject: Re: Intel bought Digital a few years ago says Craig Barrett> Message-ID: <1SUJ7.179286$5h5.75068974@news3.rdc2.on.home.com>  F I was going to write a whole pile of stuff about this, but why bother.  I Folks, the horse is dead. It's been dead now for almost 4 years. Now, the L other horse is almost dead. Suffice it to say, that this isnot even a simple case of VHS versus BETA.  J Most of what has happened around Digital, Compaq and HP, as well as Apple,L Motorola, IBM, and Intel, as well as Next, Mac OS, VMS, Tru64 UNIX, RSX11-M,L VAX, Alpha, PDP, HP Unix and AIX, it has never been about who had the better3 technology, or even who had the cheaper technology.0  H It's all been about the personalities of the various people that ran allF those companies and those programs. It's been about how Bob Palmer wasL pissed off at the President of Intel when he got let go and how he could useJ Digtial to get back at him. It's about how Intel's president, knowing thatK Bob had him in his sites used other relationships with other people to haul F him down. Like how Larry Ellison got his hands on RDB for a song and aK dance. All these people publicly being nice to each other but in fact beingl7 manipulative and trying to out-do or one-up each other.m  H Well, if the judges were forced to make a ruling, Bill gates came out onL top, didn't he? He not only shafted all his buddies, but he also shafted the consumer as well.t   rtt    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:17:36 +1100o/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>r# Subject: Re: ISV's and VMS on Intelt0 Message-ID: <DdYJ7.460$li3.16313@ozemail.com.au>  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in message $ news:3BF67976.13A885AE@dplanet.ch... >w > A serious question ... > G > There has ben a lot of talk about ISVs bringing their software to VMS  > when Intel/VMS is released.g >eD > For example, in reporting on the Dutch seminar about VMS moving to. > Intel, The Inquirer stated earlier today (atH > http://www.theinquirer.net/17110103.htm) ..."In fact, according to Mr.I > Goldstein, the combination of the DII-COE initiative and the use of the H > Intel Calling Standard for the IPF version of OpenVMS render it highlyI > likely that the OS will attract attention from ISVs who heretofore have 4 > not ported their apps to the OpenVMS environment."  
 from google:-wE Your search - "Intel Calling Standard" - did not match any documents.n (maybe it's a secret)rK even the search +intel +calling +standard only came up with some vms pages!b Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:42:42 -0500:( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> Subject: Re: Life After AlphaaB Message-ID: <20011118193850.E13593-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>   On 17 Nov 2001, Doug W. wrote:  O > While there has been much speculation on how VMS customers would react to the Q > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are large VMS customers actually2Q > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, could you post a descriptionrN > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, waiting for IPF, planningN > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just ignoring the situation? >.  D Well, I doubt we qualify as a "large VMS customer" although our mainD administrative systems are all Alpha's running VMS and I don't speakD officially for the data center, but the last conversation I had withF the management who did provided the information that they are pursuingH the likelyhood of going to IBM.  Which is funny, as this was an all BlueF shop when I got here, converted to VAX/VMS, converted to Alpha/VMS andG now appears to be about to come full circle.  Of course, if IBM were to  buy Compaq......   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 01:13:45 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Life After Alphai' Message-ID: <3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: >   > On 17 Nov 2001, Doug W. wrote: > Q > > While there has been much speculation on how VMS customers would react to theaS > > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are large VMS customers actuallywS > > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, could you post a descriptionsP > > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, waiting for IPF, planningP > > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just ignoring the situation? > >  > F > Well, I doubt we qualify as a "large VMS customer" although our mainF > administrative systems are all Alpha's running VMS and I don't speakF > officially for the data center, but the last conversation I had withH > the management who did provided the information that they are pursuingJ > the likelyhood of going to IBM.  Which is funny, as this was an all BlueH > shop when I got here, converted to VAX/VMS, converted to Alpha/VMS andI > now appears to be about to come full circle.  Of course, if IBM were tor > buy Compaq......  : Pure speculation and wishful thinking. No flames please...  G I couldn't help wondering just now if IBM would be a good candidate forn, "white knight" to save both Alpha and VMS...  F Intel hasn't gotten IA64 off the ground after - what, some six+ years?' Will there *EVER* be a viable IPF chip?"  ? IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existinggC agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it? G Remember: IBM is *NOT* a computer company! IBM is a *MARKETING* companyiD that sells computers. Hitherto, "marketing" and "VMS" juxtaposed hasH constituted an oxymoron at both Digital and Compaq. With IBM's marketingC prowess, IBM+Alpha would add up to a potential Itanic killer, IMHO.o) ...and that's even BEFORE we mention VMS!c  F IBM+Alpha+VMS+Linux = Bye bye, Bill! Bye bye, Intel domination! ...andC Carly and Curly can go down in flames with their respective sinkingd ships.  : Pure speculation and wishful thinking. No flames please...   --   David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Nov 2001 19:23:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l Subject: Re: Life After Alphao3 Message-ID: <Coyx6$Z3TFrk@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  [ In article <3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:p  A > IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existing E > agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it?0  ? I don't recall IBM having an Alpha license.  They have provided:B fabrication services to Compaq, but that does not give them rights to build Alphas on their own.9   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:45:43 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Life After Alphah< Message-ID: <Hf%J7.4116$eh7.2463517@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagee< news:20011118193850.E13593-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu...  > On 17 Nov 2001, Doug W. wrote: >iJ > > While there has been much speculation on how VMS customers would react to theJ > > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are large VMS customers actuallyG > > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, could you post ah descriptionEG > > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, waiting for IPF,e planningE > > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just ignoring the 
 situation? > >  >lF > Well, I doubt we qualify as a "large VMS customer" although our mainF > administrative systems are all Alpha's running VMS and I don't speakF > officially for the data center, but the last conversation I had withH > the management who did provided the information that they are pursuingJ > the likelyhood of going to IBM.  Which is funny, as this was an all BlueH > shop when I got here, converted to VAX/VMS, converted to Alpha/VMS andI > now appears to be about to come full circle.  Of course, if IBM were to1 > buy Compaq......  I Dunno if IBM'll buy Compaq, but if I was faced with a mandate to jump the2D Good (?) Ship Compaq, Big Blue is the first place I'd consider as an alternative!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:48:25 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Life After Alpha < Message-ID: <di%J7.4118$eh7.2466072@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net...f > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >n" > > On 17 Nov 2001, Doug W. wrote: > >gL > > > While there has been much speculation on how VMS customers would react to theL > > > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are large VMS customers actuallyI > > > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, could you post ae descriptionuI > > > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, waiting for IPF,i planningG > > > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just ignoring the 
 situation? > > >T > >sH > > Well, I doubt we qualify as a "large VMS customer" although our mainH > > administrative systems are all Alpha's running VMS and I don't speakH > > officially for the data center, but the last conversation I had withJ > > the management who did provided the information that they are pursuingL > > the likelyhood of going to IBM.  Which is funny, as this was an all BlueJ > > shop when I got here, converted to VAX/VMS, converted to Alpha/VMS andK > > now appears to be about to come full circle.  Of course, if IBM were toa > > buy Compaq...... >g< > Pure speculation and wishful thinking. No flames please... >/I > I couldn't help wondering just now if IBM would be a good candidate fore. > "white knight" to save both Alpha and VMS... >-H > Intel hasn't gotten IA64 off the ground after - what, some six+ years?) > Will there *EVER* be a viable IPF chip?e >NA > IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existing.E > agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it?:  K To the best of my knowledge IBM is *still* making some of the 1001MHz partseI for CPQ. The irony is that IBM approached DEC about fabbing Alpha back in0 about 1990!   I > Remember: IBM is *NOT* a computer company! IBM is a *MARKETING* companyhF > that sells computers. Hitherto, "marketing" and "VMS" juxtaposed hasJ > constituted an oxymoron at both Digital and Compaq. With IBM's marketingE > prowess, IBM+Alpha would add up to a potential Itanic killer, IMHO.t+ > ...and that's even BEFORE we mention VMS!e >iH > IBM+Alpha+VMS+Linux = Bye bye, Bill! Bye bye, Intel domination! ...andE > Carly and Curly can go down in flames with their respective sinkinga > ships. > < > Pure speculation and wishful thinking. No flames please... >o  J Given that Power4 is a pretty decent piece of work, do you think IBM wouldI consider it worthwhile to add Alpha to their portfolio? Assuming that theEH VMS to IPF port works (I think it will), VMS no longer is tied to Alpha.  G And it wouldn't be all that difficult to a Power4 port of the IPF-ifiedo VMS...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:54:05 GMTT" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org+ Message-ID: <3BF82E8B.546200E8@cumulus.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > / > GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in message ' > news:3BF60B53.CE34B074@cumulus.com...  > > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > > >n > > > GreyCloud wrote: > > >e > > > >cM > > > > It isn't what is advanced but more politically damaging that makes itk > > > > highly classified. > > >uN > > > you mean, it might contradict the constitutional rights of USA citizens? > > > Something like that? > > >  > >h  > > You can surmise that... yes. > F > I read the above interchange as suggesting that it's more likely theM > mechanics of the proceedings (rather than any 'sensitive' intelligence that D > might be involved) that might be damaging, and if so I agree.  OurM > government has put itself in a situation where it absolutely *must* controleK > the trial in a manner reminiscent of the best Soviet 'show trials' of thenF > bad old days, and this need is at least somewhat inconsistent with aK > judicial system that prides itself on its independence from the Executivei	 > branch.o > M > A normal civilian trial, for example, would immediately come up against theaN > issue of venue:  just as trial locations are often moved to a different cityF > or even out of state to ensure fairness for a defendant accused of aK > particularly heinous crime, in this case it would be eminently reasonableoJ > for the defense to request trial outside the U.S. - and not only is thisM > diametrically opposed to the intent the Shrub has already expressed, but itoM > would raise the real possibility that if the all the evidence is as tenuous-H > as that which has already been made public Bin Laden might actually be5 > acquitted, either on some technicality or for real.  > J > Consider the implications of that.  It would, for example, retroactivelyI > eliminate at least the stated *legal* justification for our invasion ofgL > another country and deposition of its government, not to mention highlightK > the cavalier nature of our presumption of the right to go after terrorismdA > wherever we happen to think we see it, hard evidence be damned.  > N > A military trial eliminates all that uncertainty and danger (danger at leastN > to the world reputations of our fearless leaders).  While our government mayJ > state that the reason for it is national security, I place about as muchM > credence in that as I do in Compaq's assertions that Alpha had to be killedu> > because it just couldn't keep up with the Itanic juggernaut.  F Yes, the government abuses the 'national security' reasons for what itC does.  Far too many horrors have been covered up this way. A couplekA items come to mind... giving blacks in mississipi in a test groupmG syphylis without their knowledge of it and watching it go full term... tB giving orphaned children plutonium in their oatmeal to observe theE effects... doing biological warfare in the New York subway system for C its effectiveness.  I suspect this list hasn't stopped.  There is auH federal law on the books for the government to allow these kinds of massC experiments to take place as long as they inform the city or countyhE elected officials that they are doing it.  Of course the citizens areo& never made aware of these experiments.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:41:45 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)-= Subject: Re: Virtual Terminals and suppressing error messagesm1 Message-ID: <3bf84680.853699234@news.wcc.govt.nz>:  / On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:08:01 -0700, "DigiDemon"r <digidemon@hotmail.com> wrote:  	 >Hey all!1 >r >uJ >Just 2 quick questions...anyway to enable virutal terminals with OpenVMS?I > Also, I was wondering if there's a way to suppress error messages...forhB >example during a copy operation...any way to kill these?  Thanks!   First part answered by others.D As well as the set message options suggested by others, you can alsoC use the lexical f$search to check for the presence of a file beforee$ doing the delete or purge operation. >  >James   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:00:35 GMTt" From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>D Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!+ Message-ID: <3BF83016.D37FEB18@cumulus.com>l   JF Mezei wrote:o >  > John Eisenschmidt wrote:Y > > In the end, it would come down to IBM looking at a cost benefit analysis and decidinga] > > whether they needed their old competitors OS and customers, or just their old competitors * > > customers migrating to their own OSes. > P > You forgot one thing: preventing the bigger HP from overtaking IBM. IBM is theP > smart old man waiting silently in the wings watching the young kids make theirL > silly mistakes. With HP and Compaq blindly going where Intel and MicrosoftL > tell them to, they would be more than happy to get rid of the systems they, > think are worthless such as VMS and Tru64. > P > So IBM could buy those now. And when HP wakes up and realises it was a mistakeM > to go wintel all the way, they won't have anything left to turn to and willmN > remain just another Dell or Gateway while IBM will maintain its overwhelming& > lead in the real entrerprise market. > P > If HP keeps some enterprise systems in the basement on life support, when theyF > wake up to the unprofitable wintel crap, they can always grow up andP > re-activate their real enterprise systems and then before a serious competitor	 > to IBM.0 > N > I would see IBM buying VMS more as a means to prevent HP from growing to the > size of IBM.J > And to IBM, it would be good to adopt all those stray customers who, forM > years, were ignored by Compaq and IBM would only have to show just a little : > bit of affection for those customers to really like IBM. > M > The biggest irony is that VMS customers have historically tended to despisewP > IBM. But they have been so poorly treated by Compaq/Digital that IBM would now > be seen as a saviour.t  E Agree wholeheartedly with your assessment... let's note that SGI wentoH intel/M$ and it almost ruined them while M$ stole away with SGIs' openGL library.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:33:38 +0000e1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>-# Subject: Re: Which Disks are Which?16 Message-ID: <3BF83742.1C583CEC@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>  B As the architect of the disk configuration in question, I can alsoE confirm that SWCC is a resource hog (polling the disks at the longestiA achievable interval still results in performance degradation) andu, creates lots of unwanted accounting records.E My recommendation to anyone is to use the serial line console or elsed' use the now unsupported (IIRC) HSZTerm.e   Steve.   David J. Dachtera wrote: > > All, > >iD > > Thanks for all your input. I've managed to get the information ID > > wanted using SWCC 2.1, most useful. However, I do have a problemF > > configuring SWCC to see the bottom 1/2 of one cabinet. I have beenI > > able to configure it to see all the disks on dkc (this serves all the H > > disks in l/hand cab). Also able to configure it to see all the disksH > > in top 1/2 of right hand cabinet, from dkb. However, if I try to runG > > the config on either node in the cluster to add in all the disks onaF > > the dke bus (all disks in bottom of r/hand cabinet) SWCC says that6 > > "this device is not a member of this cluster"...?? > >: > > Any clues anyone?lD > > Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any more pointers. > G > In my experience, SWCC is not recommended. System instability is very1) > likely and data loss is not unheard of.m > ? > Again, in my experience - your mileage may vary considerably.  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsc > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   --  G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent liketE a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath. A Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"u% 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"A   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:17:39 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o# Subject: Re: Which Disks are Which?e' Message-ID: <3BF844E4.D5EFB4EA@fsi.net>o   Steve Reece wrote: > D > As the architect of the disk configuration in question, I can alsoG > confirm that SWCC is a resource hog (polling the disks at the longestcC > achievable interval still results in performance degradation) andn. > creates lots of unwanted accounting records.G > My recommendation to anyone is to use the serial line console or elsef) > use the now unsupported (IIRC) HSZTerm.a  . What I wish I knew how to do is to add code to? SYS$EXAMPLES:[ALPHA_]LOGGER.C to be sensitive to whether or not0F SYS$INPUT is a terminal class device. If so, use the existing code. If; not, do record-oriented input (allow use of command files).f  	 Envision:i define verb LOGGER
 	image LOGGERo 	qualifier input...: 	qualifier output... 	etc...m  E That would help solve many, but not all, of the current problems withn# StorageWorks management automation.e   ...IMHO.   -- s David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.643 ************************