1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 19 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 644       Contents:C 3536           CONGRATULATIONS YOU'VE WON!                  2744248 / Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems P Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of ShannoP Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of ShannoP Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shanno RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS0 Re: Compaq/HP merger - let them know how to vote Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: Comparison of defragmenters  Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt? 2 DECdtm V2.0 for OpenVMS Field Test Announcement !! Re: DECUS in many names  Re: DEQ bonuses...P Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG) (N. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again department. Re: From the deja vu all over again department
 Re: Ghoti :-) 1 Re: I used to write code, but that's all over now 6 Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)6 Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)6 Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)6 Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)6 Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)6 RE: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)6 Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)' Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me? ' Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me? ' Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me? ( Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests( Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests Leo Computer's Guru On Mergers Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha RE: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha Re: Life After Alpha! No advertisment for VMS stability % Re: No advertisment for VMS stability % Re: No advertisment for VMS stability % Re: No advertisment for VMS stability % RE: No advertisment for VMS stability % Re: No advertisment for VMS stability % Re: No advertisment for VMS stability % RE: No advertisment for VMS stability  Re: P/OS anyone? Re: P/OS anyone? Re: P/OS anyone?' Printing to HP 2200D from parallel port = RMS file structure internals documentation freely available ? 5 Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system. 9 Re: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system. 9 Re: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system. 9 Re: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system. E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org ! SRM software for alpha server 800 % RE: SRM software for alpha server 800 4 Re: Virtual Terminals and suppressing error messages< Re: VMS debug image runs OK but nocheck, check version crash; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! ; Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end! 
 war is war Re: what to do with old alpha's - Re: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:48:27 * From: 4827442Jerry <mail07211@mweb.com.cn>L Subject: 3536           CONGRATULATIONS YOU'VE WON!                  27442489 Message-ID: <iss.46eb.3bf90451.83c9e.1@mx2.east.saic.com>   , Receive YOUR "FREE" MEMBERSHIP FREE SOFTWARE' AND YOUR FREE CELL PHONE. NO OBLIGATION        CHECK IT OUT!     / Your FREE club membership will give you access  0 to substantial discounts and rebates from 150 + / online stores AND the OPPORTUNITY to learn how  / you can receive a Commission Check every Month!     JOIN FREE!!!........JOIN NOW!!!!    3 To take full advantage of this Fantastic FREE OFFER   ! Simply Click on this E-mail link  # mailto:freecellphonenow@excite.com    2 Your First and last nameis needed to process your 3 order. Please type your First and Last Name in the   ubject line.   1 Details on how to claim your FREE Cell Phone and  3 FREE Promotional Software will be sent to you with  % confirmation of your FREE MEMBERSHIP.                 9 This is a one time mailing and you will not be contacted  9 again and  though it is not necessary to request removal, & you may do so by  sending an email to:4 mailto:mail0719@btamail.net.cn?subject=Please_Remove      ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:11:05 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>8 Subject: Re: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems) Message-ID: <3BF8E8C9.BBBEFBD7@127.0.0.1>    "Arena, Steve" wrote:  >  > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arena, Steve* > > Sent: Thursday, 15 November 2001 14:20 > > To:   'Nic Clews' A > > Subject:      RE: 3rd-party memory for AlphaServer DS systems     Did the email fail? Curious.  K > > I recently attended a MS Windows XP event which featured a presentation K > > from a well known CPU/motherboard manufacturer - lets call this company N > > "I". During the break, I was talking with one of the technical( not sales)N > > guys from "I". On the desk in front of us was a motherboard - just sittingL > > on the desk, no static precautions at all - the discussion got around toK > > static. This guy from "I" assured me that static is no longer a problem M > > despite all the warnings your read - "these warnings are just a hang over  > > from the past".   6 This event was tinged with more than a little fantasy.  G I would imagine you also believed all the "wonderful things they had to  say about XP".  C It is possible that protection is built into such devices, but that A would be the only way of saying this. Just remind yourself of the H emphasis on the chip process, and the tiny, tiny sizes of the substratesF they are pushing these days. Ask yourself why fusewire works. And thisG is a nice formula to show the relationship between Voltage and current, E Watts = Amps x Volts. With high voltage (static), you need next to no E amps. I'm sure you're aware that static involves voltages starting at E 10's of 1000's into several millions. The math(s) speaks for itself I  think.  C Humans can withstand quite high voltages, but it is current, in the G order of milliamps, that kills, a couple of hundred across the heart is B all it takes. Higher voltage is only needed to overcome the body's natural resistance.   M > > I still do the right thing when I install memory myself - but I know that < > > the memory has already been compromised before I get it.  A Oh, kinda explains why I was having so much trouble with a memory H upgrade I was applying to my PC recently. "The bad batch, handled by the guy in nylon underwear".  H I suspect the guy you spoke to has as much of a grip on technical issues> than he does of real operating systems. This gives me no faith: whatsoever. No wonder 'they' need an influx of good blood.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:20:19 GMT & From: "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com>Y Subject: Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shanno ? Message-ID: <nG7K7.108699$zK1.27200512@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>   I I went to the link  (www.tru64.org) to look for the survey results, but I ) could not find them.    I only find this:   .     "Alpha to IPF Survey Results Terry Shannon1     has created a summary of the results from our 1     survey about the Alpha to IPF transition. You      can read it here(.pdf).      (Nov 10, 2001)"    But there was no link.  H From my experience, I would like to know how many times, and by how manyH upper managers have you been  asked if you  should be evaluating a shift5 away from VMS  because of the Alphacide announcement.   : "Terry C Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message> news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170644130.19917-100000@world.std.com... >  > H > In light of the continuing controversy over the Alphacide, do you haveI > any suggestions for survey questions for the next SKC/Tru64.org survey? J > If so, send 'em along to kfarmer@tru64.org and terryshannon@mediaone.net > J > As previously mentioned, a summary of the mid-summer survey is posted atG > www.tru64.org and voting is still open on the first follow-up survey.  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:43:49 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shanno < Message-ID: <p08K7.4352$eh7.2819235@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  1 "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message 9 news:nG7K7.108699$zK1.27200512@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com... K > I went to the link  (www.tru64.org) to look for the survey results, but I + > could not find them.    I only find this:  > 0 >     "Alpha to IPF Survey Results Terry Shannon3 >     has created a summary of the results from our 3 >     survey about the Alpha to IPF transition. You  >     can read it here(.pdf).  >     (Nov 10, 2001)"  >  > But there was no link.  H Sorry about that... I just noticed the same thing at the site. I have anI HTML version of the survey (as well the PDF version of the SKC issue that I precipitated the recent discourse in these forums). If you want a copy of & either via email, just drop me a line.  
 Best Regards,    terry s    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:08:16 GMT & From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@tru64.org>Y Subject: Re: Any Survey Question Suggestions? (Was Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shanno > Message-ID: <kUbK7.16824$QN6.7123123@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>   John,   L I just changed it so the entire sentence "You can read it here(.pdf)" is the link instead of just "here".   Ken      -- Ken Farmer, kfarmer@tru64.org  Tru64.org, http://www.tru64.org  Tru64.org Newsletter: < http://www2.tru64.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-Registration      1 "john nixon" <jnixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message 9 news:nG7K7.108699$zK1.27200512@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com... K > I went to the link  (www.tru64.org) to look for the survey results, but I + > could not find them.    I only find this:  > 0 >     "Alpha to IPF Survey Results Terry Shannon3 >     has created a summary of the results from our 3 >     survey about the Alpha to IPF transition. You  >     can read it here(.pdf).  >     (Nov 10, 2001)"  >  > But there was no link. > J > From my experience, I would like to know how many times, and by how manyJ > upper managers have you been  asked if you  should be evaluating a shift7 > away from VMS  because of the Alphacide announcement.  > < > "Terry C Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message@ > news:Pine.SGI.4.30.0111170644130.19917-100000@world.std.com... > >  > > J > > In light of the continuing controversy over the Alphacide, do you haveK > > any suggestions for survey questions for the next SKC/Tru64.org survey? L > > If so, send 'em along to kfarmer@tru64.org and terryshannon@mediaone.net > > L > > As previously mentioned, a summary of the mid-summer survey is posted atI > > www.tru64.org and voting is still open on the first follow-up survey.  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:30:05 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>' Subject: RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS @ Message-ID: <20011119173005.64040.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  # VAXman .... VAX is osbolete ! :-)))    Regards    FC=20     0 --- Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote:' > There's a good chance VAXman does. :)  >=20 > Chris  >=20# > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >=20 > /usr/bin/perl -e '+ > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl  > Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  > '  > =20  >=20 > > -----Original Message-----% > > From: robin.brady@ssb.state.tx.us & > [mailto:robin.brady@ssb.state.tx.us] >=201 > > Does anyone have any experience with software  > called  > > UPShot by TMESIS Software=202 > > (http://www.tmesis.com/apc/registration.htmlx) > > on OpenVMS Alpha 7.3?  >=206 > > Just curious how well it works as it appears to be	 > a beta.      =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:44:21 -0600 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> ' Subject: RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DE99@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>  L Maybe somebody should tell him that.  He's still manufacturing MicroVAX's at a pretty consistant rate.    Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  '       > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br] * > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:30 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > Subject: RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS  >  > % > VAXman .... VAX is osbolete ! :-)))    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:28:27 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) ' Subject: RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS 0 Message-ID: <00A05486.88BAD4B3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <20011119173005.64040.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes: $ >VAXman .... VAX is osbolete ! :-)))  G It really ought be VMSman but I'm afraid to hear the pronunciations of  E that moniker.  Besides, in retrospective, it was the VAX that made it 
 all possible.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:33:02 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) ' Subject: RE: APC UPS Software by TMESIS 0 Message-ID: <00A05487.2CAB0455@SendSpamHere.ORG>  z In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DE99@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes:M >Maybe somebody should tell him that.  He's still manufacturing MicroVAX's at  >a pretty consistant rate.  G 14, 12, 11, 2 is not a very constant rate.  However, the manufacturing  E equipment in the MicroVAX FAB has been dismantled.  I spend much time F "collaborating" with the principle foundary but so far, no future CPUs are on the horizon. ;)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             TJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:01:14 GMTc4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: Compaq/HP merger - let them know how to vote < Message-ID: <e1aK7.4451$eh7.2927387@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in messageb$ news:3BF4040E.F61D4C23@dplanet.ch... >  >w > David Mathog wrote:r > >o > > John Smith wrote:o > > >n) > > > How to influence the Compaq/HP deal 0 > > > ------------------------------------------ > > >!E > > > If you are a university alumnus, write the Board of Trustees ord
 Regents of0 > > > your alma mater and try and convince them. > >tJ > > Ben Rosen is the Chairman of our Board of Trustees.  So in our case it sounds like . > > rather a waste of paper, ink, and postage. >mD > Hmmm .... Sounds like complaining to your mother-in-law about your > wife   :-)  L Yeah, I guess it does. But remember: one share of stock is the coveted ducatJ that grants you entry to the annual stockholders meeting. Imagine what theD meeting might be like if a few hundred folks showed up to vent their
 spleens...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:30:29 GMTd  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters8 Message-ID: <el5ivt4fj6j804rs6fb2sf0jp00ba6f6f7@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:33:19 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:      >eJ >But, LBNs near the edge of a logical disk may not correlate with physicalK >blocks near the edges of the platters.  It is also quite conceivable that eI >a fragmented file places the data on the physical platters in such a wayA$ >as to limit/minimize head movement. >eJ >FYI, I'm not knocking PerfectDisk, I'm just checking to see if you under-* >stand what it claims it is doing for you. >   F What's even more interesting in current-times is that, with almost all@ systems using some form of raid/striping, does a defragmentationC process even help at all?  I mean, by definition, a striped file is C already fragmented, right?  Now, I realize that any file so heavilynF fragmented that it's got extension headers could be a problem, but I'mB not sure that defragmenting most files is really worth it anymore.  ; Has anyone done an investigation of the benefits in today'si striped-disk world?s  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqr- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:19:18 GMTp= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e( Subject: Re: Comparison of defragmenters0 Message-ID: <00A05485.41F058FC@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <el5ivt4fj6j804rs6fb2sf0jp00ba6f6f7@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> writes: A >On Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:33:19 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brianc  >Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote: >  >p >>K >>But, LBNs near the edge of a logical disk may not correlate with physical.L >>blocks near the edges of the platters.  It is also quite conceivable that J >>a fragmented file places the data on the physical platters in such a way% >>as to limit/minimize head movement.o >>K >>FYI, I'm not knocking PerfectDisk, I'm just checking to see if you under-o+ >>stand what it claims it is doing for you.e >> >oG >What's even more interesting in current-times is that, with almost all A >systems using some form of raid/striping, does a defragmentationeD >process even help at all?  I mean, by definition, a striped file isD >already fragmented, right?  Now, I realize that any file so heavilyG >fragmented that it's got extension headers could be a problem, but I'msC >not sure that defragmenting most files is really worth it anymore.I  E Yes.  Defragmentation can help in the virtual->logical translation ofsE a file.  One that is virtually contiguous is usually preferred to onerD that is not.  Window turns can be eliminated as well as the need forD multiple WCBs simply by defragmenting.  Defragmented free space can C also be a boon to performance when large requests for disk space do.0 not beed to be satisfied by multiple requests.       --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes-   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:24:32 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)A& Subject: Re: DEC 4000 300 has no halt?3 Message-ID: <j5qO1r9hN3Vp@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  Y In article <9t3amp$joq$1@news1.xs4all.nl>, "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl> writes:T > K > My DEC 3000 400 has a halt button on the backside below the network (AUI)  > connector.  A    Which is where mine was broken off.  Now there's a DTDP switchT@    hanging there, soldered via a connector to the remains of the$    original, and I can halt at will.  B    Now I just need to keep my eye out for a momentary contact DTDPB    switch.  Did someone say they had the original part number (and    a supplier)?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:34:07 -0500 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>; Subject: DECdtm V2.0 for OpenVMS Field Test Announcement !! 3 Message-ID: <RuaK7.1721$RL6.57082@news.cpqcorp.net>H  1 Contact information follows if you are interestedy      B ******* DECdtm V2.0 for OpenVMS Field Test Announcement !! *******  L DECdtm is a distributed transaction manager that coordinates the activity of resource managers_  C used by an application. DECdtm services are embedded in the OpenVMS1 operating system and  J fully support distributed databases using a two-phase commit protocol. The DECdtm servicese  H provide the technology and features for distributed processing, ensuring both transaction and  < database integrity across multiple Compaq resource managers.  L DECdtm V2.0 implements the XA standard interface from the X/Open distributed transaction model.  H The XA interface provides transaction processing interoperability across OpenVMS Oracle/Rdb,d  I OpenVMS Oracle 8i/9i, RMSJ and ACMS. DECdtm V2.0 can interface with othera
 vendors XA  D compliant transaction managers such as BEA Tuxedo and IBM MQ Series.  G If you are interested in field testing DECdtm V2.0, please fill out ther field test form and download  " the binaries and documentation at:: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/decdtm/index.html   Thank you for your interest.      
 Sincerely,   Rick McLaughlinn   Rick.McLaughlin@compaq.com   OpenVMS Business Development   Compaq Computer Corporations   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 04:27:02 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b  Subject: Re: DECUS in many names, Message-ID: <3BF8D065.A3B4C3E7@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:= > Does www.tru64.org carry any weight with Compaq management?o  I A group's weight with management is directly proportional to the level of. activity of members.  J A group whose focus is on an annual conference will be seen by Compaq as aN marketing opportunity and the group will be treated as a conference organisingA company who is able to gather large number of existing customers.   K But a group whose focus is on on-going information exchange between memberslK and between product management and engineers will be seen as a tool to keepiT product management directly in touch with customers and able to communicate to them.  H A group whose contacts are in corporate management and marketing will beL detached from product management and engineers, especially in a company suchI as Compaq whose upper management doesn't want to admit to VMS' existence.   M Consider the example of the IPF console issue. Lets assume that engineers hadaM to make a decision on whether to support interface X or not. Having an activerK group would allow engineers quick and efficient access to customers to pollsG them to get a general idea of the impact of going one way or the other.t  K Consider some marketing gaffe at upper management. Product management coulde@ then easily reach customers informally to explain the situation.  4 > If so, would www.openvms.org have the same impact?  M If it is more than a web page, yes, I believe so. With VMS now a small familytM spread across many continents, a single group linking the remaining customersKL to discuss issues and technical contacts with engineers would be of value to* both VMS product management and customers.  L Remember that VMS product management are generally on our side in the battle against Compaq.r   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 05:53:44 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: DEQ bonuses... = Message-ID: <343f30ae.0111190553.3e207b10@posting.google.com>n  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3BF5D91B.1060409@tsoft-inc.com>... [snip]H > Upon subsequent readings it isn't really all that much, but the first  > reading had me ROTFLMAO.  :-)r   What does the MAO stand for?     > Dave   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:25:49 -0800 (PST)r. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: Re: Disaster Tolerance day organized by Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG) (Nk@ Message-ID: <20011119112549.71975.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>   Hmmmm...  ( Things for VMS are better in Netherlands# than Brazil. I think I must contactt$ my dutch friends right now... even I$ dont understand any word of dutch!!!
 May be....  - Do Shell still having VMS systems in Europe ?C. Here in Brazil I know they changed to Sun, but. I Europe I think they are using IBM, right ???     Regardss   FC=20 2 --- Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:) > I'm in the Netherlands right now, but In$ > unfortunately will be elsewhere on1 > 29 November. Having done a presentation for the  > NLCUG back in 6 > mid-September, I have first-hand experience that the > folks are doing ad2 > good job. If you're gonna be in the area, by all > means take Gerrity  > Woertman up on his suggestion! >=20- > On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, Gerrit Woertman wrote:A >=20/ > > The Compaq User Group Netherlands (NLCUG, ad" > combination of DECUS and BENTUG), > > organizes on November, 29, in Soest, the# > Netherlands, a day about Disasters > > Tolerance.5 > > If you are interested, the program (mostly in thet > Dutch language) can be# > > found at:  http://www.nlcug.nl/f > >)0 > > When planning this event half a year ago, we  > didn't realize that this topic > > would be that actual.- > >-2 > > Information can be obtained at: nlcug@wispa.nl > > 4 > > Our next event in April, will be about Security. > >u > > regards, > > Gerrit Woertmanl > >I > >  > >  >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DbL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3De F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:09:41 GMT4) From: "Madman" <madman@killthewabbit.org> 7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department ? Message-ID: <Ve2K7.45611$XJ4.26762451@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>u  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BF7A9A8.BE148581@videotron.ca... [snip] >)F > (Look at Microsoft who is now dumping X-BOXes on the market at belowJ > production costs, yet the USA government isn't doing anything to prevent this > very overt dumping.) >uF That's common practice in the gaming industry: sell the hardware cheapL (often at below cost) to get people to buy the games.  Just like cellphones:J practically give away the phones, make money on the recurring revenue fromJ airtime.  Or the Time-Life game: first book/tape/etc. in the series is $1,? the other 49 cost more - lots more.  And so on and so forth..../  K It really irritates me that people are so quick to slam Microsoft that theyn can't bother to make sense.s  L Now you want to talk market manipulation, let's talk Compaq: buy DEC so theyC can kill off the Alpha (a most credible competitor to x86), and the E regulators bought it!  (Or maybe they bought the regulators.)  And of D course, Compaq is right there sucking at the Intel teat.  (NOTE thatH Microsoft supported alternative processors with their operating systems,F until the HARDWARE folks pulled out - the MIPS machines went away, IBMK stopped support for their PowerPC machines with Windows, and then the Alphar	 debacle.)r   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:15:53 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department"3 Message-ID: <o8aJk3MOLeZb@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <3BF67AF9.EDCAD485@dplanet.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> writes:m > C > On Compaq's track record with PCs, this will also make the mergede" > company the number one LOSER !    C    As long as HP keeps making printers, something in my office will.D    have the HP logo on it.  Currently nothing says Compaq and I have    no plans for it to.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:17:09 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)37 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again departmenti3 Message-ID: <IuyhKg$hg5VB@eisner.encompasserve.org>=  \ In article <3BF7A9A8.BE148581@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > F > (Look at Microsoft who is now dumping X-BOXes on the market at belowO > production costs, yet the USA government isn't doing anything to prevent this  > very overt dumping.)  F    And still coming up 50% more than Nintendo.  Must be they think the    real competition is Sony.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:35:44 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again departmenta, Message-ID: <3BF926CE.8A004818@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:E >    As long as HP keeps making printers, something in my office willrF >    have the HP logo on it.  Currently nothing says Compaq and I have >    no plans for it to.  U First there was centronics. They rules the printer and defined the parallel standard.SJ Then, IBM chose EPSON for its IBM PC and EPSON ruled the printer industry.* Then came HP and they eventually too over.  - Will HP retain its printer monopoly forever ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:22:01 GMTj4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department7< Message-ID: <JkaK7.4467$eh7.2939973@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "John McLean" <mcleanj@dplanet.ch> wrote in messageo$ news:3BF67AF9.EDCAD485@dplanet.ch... >  >  > Paul Sture wrote:e > >uG > > In article <MPG.165c53932db105cf9896bf@news-server.neo.rr.com>, Joet > > Matuscak wrote:s > > > Take a look at:p > > >P3 > > > http://www.calc.org/news/display.php?id=61241( >)3 > Paul quoted the Compaq/Hp submission as saying ..o >o@ > > A: As a result of this deal, we may become the number one PC manufacturer > > in the industry. >H >eC > On Compaq's track record with PCs, this will also make the merged0  > company the number one LOSER ! >   K They just don't get it, do they. Remember back in the Wes Melling era, whensK DEC was exhorting customers to dump VMS and dumb down to NT? Little thought7F of things like account control and margins and the like went into that Stupid Strategy Trick.  L I doubt that the combined CPQ and HWP can build and sell a generic peecee asB cheaply as Dell can do the same thing. Let Mikie do it, sez I, andC concentrate on areas in which profits can be made. My opinion only.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:01:24 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>7 Subject: Re: From the deja vu all over again department0< Message-ID: <EVaK7.4490$eh7.2962713@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "Madman" <madman@killthewabbit.org> wrote in message9 news:Ve2K7.45611$XJ4.26762451@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com..." > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3BF7A9A8.BE148581@videotron.ca... > [snip] > >eH > > (Look at Microsoft who is now dumping X-BOXes on the market at belowL > > production costs, yet the USA government isn't doing anything to prevent > this > > very overt dumping.) > >iH > That's common practice in the gaming industry: sell the hardware cheapB > (often at below cost) to get people to buy the games.  Just like cellphones:PL > practically give away the phones, make money on the recurring revenue fromL > airtime.  Or the Time-Life game: first book/tape/etc. in the series is $1,A > the other 49 cost more - lots more.  And so on and so forth....t >CH > It really irritates me that people are so quick to slam Microsoft that they > can't bother to make sense.g > I > Now you want to talk market manipulation, let's talk Compaq: buy DEC so  theyE > can kill off the Alpha (a most credible competitor to x86), and thecG > regulators bought it!  (Or maybe they bought the regulators.)  And ofmF > course, Compaq is right there sucking at the Intel teat.  (NOTE thatJ > Microsoft supported alternative processors with their operating systems,H > until the HARDWARE folks pulled out - the MIPS machines went away, IBMG > stopped support for their PowerPC machines with Windows, and then the@ Alpha> > debacle.)8  K Yeah, but what does CPQ gain by becoming a pure-play Wintel OEM? Not a hell) of a lot...    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:10:27 GMTsG From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP>l Subject: Re: Ghoti :-)6 Message-ID: <np8K7.30172$xS6.47650@www.newsranger.com>  . On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:26:57 +0100, in article4 <VA.000004c2.71bcbc54@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture wrote: >e. >Yorkshire. Some would not call it English :-) >o8 >For a sample try www.stockdill.freeserve.co.uk/moor :-) >sK Just in case Paul's given the rest of the VMS world the impression that allaK of us Yorkshire people speak like this :-), I should point out that 99.999%iD of the people I encounter here in North Yorkshire speak using a more conventional dialect. :-)t  F >(Oh and hit the Home or Places links on that page to see some rather * >nice scenery, most of which I know well).   Agreed.d   >___ >Paul Stureo >Switzerland >    Simon,
 Yorkshire.  B We now return you to the end of the (VMS) world discussions... :-)   -- h@ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered anE truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:38:03 -050042 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>: Subject: Re: I used to write code, but that's all over now3 Message-ID: <xyaK7.1722$RL6.57116@news.cpqcorp.net>t  1 Unfortunately I was never a coder just a wannabe.l  " That said I really love what I do.  ! If I changed jobs you would know!t   suet  9 "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in messaget  news:3BF58156.6472A31A@gmx.ch... > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >i1 > > I used to write code, but that's all over now  > >c > > -- by the Coding Stonese > >y > ../..o >>! > You've got a new position, Sue?r >u > D. > --I >   ---------------------------------------------------------------------sG > MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlsG > Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670a1 > 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.a >yJ > Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseJ > On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:49:10 -0500 * From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@Compaq.com>? Subject: Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)a* Message-ID: <3BF8FFC6.7EEF1DDE@Compaq.com>   For those actually interested:  A   "Itanium(tm) Software Conventions & Runtime Architecture Guide" C   http://developer.intel.com/design/itanium/downloads/24535803s.htm      Phil Howell wrote: >  > from google:- G > Your search - "Intel Calling Standard" - did not match any documents.' > (maybe it's a secret)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:30:03 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-? Subject: Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)@, Message-ID: <3BF92579.D4E1909D@videotron.ca>   Joshua Cope wrote: >   > For those actually interested: > C >   "Itanium(tm) Software Conventions & Runtime Architecture Guide"ZE >   http://developer.intel.com/design/itanium/downloads/24535803s.htma  M Interesting. Section 8.5 does deal with a specific calling standard for localh6 routines and routines in a dynamically loaded module.   J Is the procedure calling standard something which is really defined by the! chip or by the operating system ?j  G How did tyhe VMS engineers deal with the MACRO compiler with regards tooL detecting macro code that was setting up a call to a subroutine , or was the1 calling standard identical in Alpha versus VAX ? :  J Will the VMS engineers have to abide by the Intel standard or will they be# able to maintain the VMS standard ?n  N While I can understand Intel explaining the different "branch" instructions toN be used to goto a subroutine depending on its location, does Intel really needJ to specify a parameter passing mechanism for all OS that run on its chip ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:19:08 -0500a* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>? Subject: Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)e) Message-ID: <3BF930FC.3060708@compaq.com>E   JF Mezei wrote:r   > O > Interesting. Section 8.5 does deal with a specific calling standard for localn8 > routines and routines in a dynamically loaded module.  > L > Is the procedure calling standard something which is really defined by the# > chip or by the operating system ?A > I > How did tyhe VMS engineers deal with the MACRO compiler with regards tocN > detecting macro code that was setting up a call to a subroutine , or was the3 > calling standard identical in Alpha versus VAX ? s > L > Will the VMS engineers have to abide by the Intel standard or will they be% > able to maintain the VMS standard ?e > P > While I can understand Intel explaining the different "branch" instructions toP > be used to goto a subroutine depending on its location, does Intel really needL > to specify a parameter passing mechanism for all OS that run on its chip ? >    Lots of questions...  G We have started with the Intel Itanium Software Conventions Guide, but 0@ have modified it to allow it to work with OpenVMS without major D disruption to the customers.  For example, the Intel guide does not F provided an architected argument count.  We felt that you need one of @ those on OpenVMS.  We needed additional stuff to support binary  translation.  Etc.  H We are creating an "addendum" to the Intel Itanium Software Conventions I Guide that lists the differences between the base Intel version and what  D OpenVMS will use.  This addendum is still mostly complete and still E under review.  The resulting standard should be adequate for OpenVMS oA use.  It might look different if you care about the details (for cF example, no frame pointer; unwinding information radically different; A etc.)  However, the compilers should hide all that away from you.t  E No, Intel doesn't require that anybody use their guide.  However, it wH would make it easier for others to move their compilers, tools, etc. to H an OpenVMS platform if we stick to the Intel guide as much as possible. F   This is the same logic that lead us to use ELF/DWARF as object file  format.n  ; I don't understand your MACRO question.  Can you elaborate?e       -- H John ReaganvE Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader/Calling Standard Design Board    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:01:15 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r? Subject: Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)r, Message-ID: <3BF93AD9.D38A090D@videotron.ca>   John Reagan wrote:= > I don't understand your MACRO question.  Can you elaborate?s  I I have have a VAX macro program that uses the VMS-VAX calling standard toaN setup registers etc, and then move that program to MACRO-ALPHA, does the MACROK compiler on Alpha change whatever is needed to allow my program to abide by B the Alpha-VMS calling standards, or are the two exactly the same ?  K And what happens to a VAX Macro program when it will be compiled on ItaniumaN where the calling standard will be different ? Or is it assumed that all MacroL programs use a standard macro to call any routine  so when recompiled on new8 platform, a new macro will generate the different code ?   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 11:15:00 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h? Subject: Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)h3 Message-ID: <r+djRWcPi9JM@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  \ In article <3BF92579.D4E1909D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  L > Is the procedure calling standard something which is really defined by the# > chip or by the operating system ?0  I    DEC did it for VAX and followed it in VMS and VAXeln.  Updated it for SH    C and continued to follow it for both VMS and UNIX.  Did it all over D    again for Alpha, followed it for VMS, UNIX, and probably NT.  I'mE    under the impression Berkley pretty much followed it when they didzD    the orignial UNIX port, except where C wasn't compatable with the    earlier version.a  I > How did tyhe VMS engineers deal with the MACRO compiler with regards totN > detecting macro code that was setting up a call to a subroutine , or was the3 > calling standard identical in Alpha versus VAX ? a  F    See "Porting VAX Macro Code to Alpha", an entire book on such.  ForH    these calling standard issues several macros and new directives were D    supplied and sometimes required to get Macro-32 through the Alpha    Macro-32 compiler.o     L > Will the VMS engineers have to abide by the Intel standard or will they be% > able to maintain the VMS standard ?,  G    Already publically stated that they will follow the Intel standard.  0    I doubt they have time to reinvent the wheel.  P > While I can understand Intel explaining the different "branch" instructions toP > be used to goto a subroutine depending on its location, does Intel really needL > to specify a parameter passing mechanism for all OS that run on its chip ?  F    Intel can't force every OS writer to follow it, but the programming5    community will be happier with OS vendors that do.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:28:23 -0800=# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ? Subject: RE: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel) 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEJNDJAA.tom@kednos.com>=   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]) > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 9:15 AMe > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel)e >  > 8 > In article <3BF92579.D4E1909D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei ( > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > @ > > Is the procedure calling standard something which is really  > defined by the% > > chip or by the operating system ?e > K >    DEC did it for VAX and followed it in VMS and VAXeln.  Updated it for  J >    C and continued to follow it for both VMS and UNIX.  Did it all over F >    again for Alpha, followed it for VMS, UNIX, and probably NT.  I'mG >    under the impression Berkley pretty much followed it when they didsF >    the orignial UNIX port, except where C wasn't compatable with the >    earlier version.c  < Actually, it is neither, it is the standards of the language   > K > > How did tyhe VMS engineers deal with the MACRO compiler with regards toeD > > detecting macro code that was setting up a call to a subroutine  > , or was the5 > > calling standard identical in Alpha versus VAX ? i > H >    See "Porting VAX Macro Code to Alpha", an entire book on such.  ForJ >    these calling standard issues several macros and new directives were F >    supplied and sometimes required to get Macro-32 through the Alpha >    Macro-32 compiler.g >    .B > > Will the VMS engineers have to abide by the Intel standard or  > will they be' > > able to maintain the VMS standard ?w > I >    Already publically stated that they will follow the Intel standard. c2 >    I doubt they have time to reinvent the wheel. > C > > While I can understand Intel explaining the different "branch" - > instructions to A > > be used to goto a subroutine depending on its location, does   > Intel really needcD > > to specify a parameter passing mechanism for all OS that run on  > its chip ? > H >    Intel can't force every OS writer to follow it, but the programming7 >    community will be happier with OS vendors that do.e >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:11:25 -0500!- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o? Subject: Re: IPF Calling Standard (was: ISV's and VMS on Intel) , Message-ID: <3BF94B4C.E13D2435@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:H >    Already publically stated that they will follow the Intel standard.2 >    I doubt they have time to reinvent the wheel.  M Initial reaction to this is that this will diminish the reliability of VMS. IrN see Intel as a branch of Microsoft with no experience with enterprise systems.  L I trust vms engineers. I don't trust Intel. If VMS engineers are "forced" to@ use Intel design decisions, I am not 100% confortable with this.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:21:46 -0500l From: <ed.vogel@compaq.com>e0 Subject: Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me?3 Message-ID: <%z8K7.1708$RL6.56873@news.cpqcorp.net>o  A "Howard Taylor" <Howard.Taylor@pacificcoast.net> wrote in messaget news:3bf57981$1@nubby2.... | Hi;a | L | We have a posix threads application that got an access violation in threadI | code after we moved from OpenVMS 7.1 to OpenVMS 7.2-1. It was not clear  whatI | was causing the access violation, and it worked fine in debug mode. OuraG | worakround was to recompile using the "/debug/nooptimize" qualifiers.e |i | Howard Taylort    3 Howard (and all the others that do the same thing).   B       I would strongly urge developers *not* to use /NOOPT to workB around a crash without first understanding exactly why the programB failed when /OPT was specified.  I believe you are doing yourself,C and possibly others, a disservice by ignoring what is clearly a bug:
 somewhere.  E     The crash indicates one of two problems.  A bug in your software,hB or a bug in Compaq's software (O.K...let's not get into which caseK is more likely :-) ).  If it's the first case, leaving the bug in your code C could mean a failure sometime in the future (like the next time youoC upgrade).   If it's a bug in Compaq's software, say the C compiler, = then this bug may be impacting other applications in some waye? you don't know.  Further, the bug may continue to hurt you, ando= others, if it's never reported to Compaq, as it may never get  fixed.  ?     One more point: just because the application does not crashs? when /NOOPT is specified, does not mean it's working correctly.j@ It's possible you've simply exchanged one bad behavior (a crash)? with a worse one (data corruption).  An uninitialized automatic?7 variable is one example where /OPT and /NOOPT will giveiA different results. Often one will lead to a crash while the otherh will lead to data corruption.   @     I know it's a real pain isolate a problem.   It's especially9 frustrating when the problem turns out to be in a product 2 supplied by Compaq.  However, unless we know about7 the problem, we may never fix it, and it may be hurting1( you, and others, in ways you don't know.  3     We (speaking for the Compaq C Engineering team) ; really try to produce a quality product.  Sometimes we makey8 mistakes.  We ask your help in finding these mistakes so7 they can be corrected in a future release.  If you have.8 a support contract, you can report problems in the usual= way.  If not, sending a problem report to compaq_c@compaq.comr should also work.   =     Howard, I don't mean to single you out.  I know there arer@ lots of people who do exactly what you do, and I understand why.D I'm just asking all users to reconsider this practice, at least some of the time.  8                                 Thank you for listening,(                                 Ed Vogel5                                 Compaq C Engineering.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:37:04 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r0 Subject: Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me?, Message-ID: <3BF9271E.F808DEBE@videotron.ca>   ed.vogel@compaq.com wrote:: >                                 Thank you for listening,* >                                 Ed Vogel7 >                                 Compaq C Engineering.     5 Out of curiosity, don't you guys work for Intel now ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:44:51 -0500o From: <ed.vogel@compaq.com> 0 Subject: Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me?3 Message-ID: <UN9K7.1719$RL6.56931@news.cpqcorp.net>p  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3BF9271E.F808DEBE@videotron.ca... | ed.vogel@compaq.com wrote:< | >                                 Thank you for listening,, | >                                 Ed Vogel9 | >                                 Compaq C Engineering.- |- |-7 | Out of curiosity, don't you guys work for Intel now ?o       No.s  <     As a lowly engineer, I'm not in a position to talk about9     future plans for either the products or the engineerse!     (at least not in this forum).:   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:47:50 GMT:4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests/< Message-ID: <GQ9K7.4445$eh7.2920129@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  - "cjt" <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in messagep% news:3BF59694.B6635C04@prodigy.net...o > Rob Young wrote: > >p
 > <snip>  ButeH > >         apparently it isn't that big a deal to Dell/HP/IBM.  PerhapsE > >         their customers use the machines in such a way they would * > >         never be at "risk."  Unlikely. > >g' > >                                 Robd > L > They probably just say it's a Windows problem and everybody believes them.  ; And not without reason, given Microsoft's track record! ;-}a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:45:40 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: Itanium flunking Compaq server tests-< Message-ID: <EO9K7.4443$eh7.2918820@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Milton" <mbhewitt@optonline.net> wrote in message2 news:c9p7vt0cpm5ioot14f1q1dsnirijk6e5t1@4ax.com.... > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:46:57 -0500, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:a >e > >Milton wrote: > >> > >>L http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20011114/tc/itanium_flunking_compaq_server_t ests_1.htmle > >>J > >> Intel's Itanium processor is failing to pass Compaq Computer's stressE > >> tests, according to a Compaq representative, thus holding up thes) > >> release of Compaq's Itanium servers.S > >e > >Does that surprise anyone ?   Nope.p   >oG > But shouldn't these flaws have been exposed thru the rigorous testing-% > already done over the past 2 years?o  K Apparently not. The Blazer boxen of two years ago were laden with prototypesE IPF chips. Since I don't know the nature of the errata or sighting or J whatever in hell Intel is calling the flaw today, I'm not in a position toK opine on the ease with which the flaw should have been discovered. But I dosJ recall that it wasn't Intel who discovered that one of the earlier PentiumB chips was mathematically challenged when it came to long division.   >aG > "Compaq's ISSG engineers began putting prototype Blazer boxes through A > the Meatgrinder test suite nearly two years ago and testing hast> > continued unabated during an extensive IPF shakedown cruise.* > http://www.tru64.org/skc/IPFSpecial.html   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Nov 2001 17:17:58 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)C' Subject: Leo Computer's Guru On Mergersm' Message-ID: <9tbes6$b0b$1@joe.rice.edu>- Keywords: leo,computer,mergere  I Have there been any mergers that run counter to Mr. Caminer's statement ?.  D    http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=863267    Computer history.    It all started with piesh      Nov 15th 2001  #    From The Economist print edition E    The routine use of computers in business is 50 years old this week   H   "...In 1954 Lyons spun off a separate company, LEO Computers, to buildE    machines for other firms. Today the company is nowhere to be seen.hD    British firms, unlike their American counterparts, were scepticalG    about business computing; American manufacturers soon took the lead. G    LEO Computers vanished in a series of disastrous mergers. "I know ofCH    no computer merger anywhere where there has been added value from theG    merger of competing forces of engineers, marketers and programmers,"sH    David Caminer, LEO's software guru, said last week at a conference to    mark the 50th anniversary.n  F    The troubled HP-Compaq merger suggests that the industry has yet to    learn this lesson..."  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 04:35:15 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>- Subject: Re: Life After Alphao, Message-ID: <3BF8D251.FA8D0797@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote::L > Given that Power4 is a pretty decent piece of work, do you think IBM wouldK > consider it worthwhile to add Alpha to their portfolio? Assuming that thedJ > VMS to IPF port works (I think it will), VMS no longer is tied to Alpha.  M In the short term, IBM could be building Alphas until Power is upgraded to behF able to do the same complex multi-cpu systems as Alpha was able to do.N Essentially, the same strategy as Compaq, except with a commitment to continueN Alpha until Power is better than Alpha at which point it would be advantageous  for customer to switch to Power.  L Also, IBM might gain access to the Alpha IP, some of which may be of help to& boost Power WAY ahead of intel's IA64.  J Just because Intel has access to the Alpha IP doesn't mean that it will be able to make use of it on IA64.   E If Power is philosophically closer to Alpha, then it might be able to J incorporate much of more alpha's technologies than IA64 could possibly do.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:34:08 +0000m( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Life After Alphaw) Message-ID: <3BF8EE30.D1D7E263@127.0.0.1>h   "Doug W." wrote: > O > While there has been much speculation on how VMS customers would react to theaQ > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are large VMS customers actually Q > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, could you post a description N > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, waiting for IPF, planningN > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just ignoring the situation?  F CSC have a very large, and largely undisclosed number of VMS users, onE all types of former DEC (yes I mean PDP11) kit, VAX and Alpha, with alC large variety of business needs from the equipment. Some are fixed,.H installed, stable, and will serve them all their days, others range fromG being on the current release of the operating system and related ECO's,e others steps behind.  H We have for our clients, a number of strategy documents in all the majorE IT areas, systems architecture (hardware), storage, operating systemse+ and third party software, all multi vendor.t  ? I form one of a team around the VMS area, and we issue strategy H documents, which are written from information we get from the market andE the vendors, then we also pass them to the vendor for comment, we get1A non disclosure stuff at, interesting levels, contributing to thisoG document, and all the client has to do is ask (but we issue as a matter E of course to certain client contacts). One such is a strategy for VAX  and Alpha users.  G No, I won't post a copy here, you have to be a customer of CSC, and the D document protection is such that anyone else (client etc.) breaching3 that would find themselves in court pretty rapidly.   @ The simple answer is YES, and I've qualified it. So ignoring theH situation, definitely not, addressing the FUD, of course, addressing theE issues, yes, respecting the knowledge, it's more than my job's worth.o -- n( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:37:14 -0800 (PST)c. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: Life After Alpha-@ Message-ID: <20011119113714.24811.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   Well  2 I cant talk for the company but what I can say is:  ) a) Consolidate a lot of VAX/Alphas in onel great machine: probably GS160i  2 b) Migrate a lot of applications to SAP (Sun E10K)  2 c) Still using VAX/Alpha for industrial automation' until the advent of Itanium systems.=20g, May be we can buy Agilent Itanium VXI boards- for industrial automation in the future to=20 ' run Control Systems' VXL (if they port)S   Regards.   FC=20 . --- "Doug W." <dashw459@aol.comeatspam> wrote:2 > While there has been much speculation on how VMS > customers would react to the4 > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are > large VMS customers actually4 > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, > could you post a description4 > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, > waiting for IPF, planningr6 > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just > ignoring the situation?=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DiL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dt F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dr  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Nov 2001 13:40:29 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)h Subject: Re: Life After Alphaa+ Message-ID: <9tb24d$cvi$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   ' In article <3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net>, 4  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:f |> >I |> > Well, I doubt we qualify as a "large VMS customer" although our mainwI |> > administrative systems are all Alpha's running VMS and I don't speak I |> > officially for the data center, but the last conversation I had with0K |> > the management who did provided the information that they are pursuing M |> > the likelyhood of going to IBM.  Which is funny, as this was an all BlueeK |> > shop when I got here, converted to VAX/VMS, converted to Alpha/VMS andeL |> > now appears to be about to come full circle.  Of course, if IBM were to |> > buy Compaq......j |> R= |> Pure speculation and wishful thinking. No flames please...   B Sure, rain on my parade.  Burst my bubble.  Thanks a lot....   :-)  B |> IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existingF |> agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it?J |> Remember: IBM is *NOT* a computer company! IBM is a *MARKETING* company |> that sells computers. C  ; Your joking, right??  Who makes System-390's??  AS-400's?? oE And the 390 shows they don't scrap older technology before it's time. A This is an architecture that has been in constant development fornE several decades and still maintains backwards compatability with it'sl
 ancestors.  G |>                       Hitherto, "marketing" and "VMS" juxtaposed hashK |> constituted an oxymoron at both Digital and Compaq. With IBM's marketing F |> prowess, IBM+Alpha would add up to a potential Itanic killer, IMHO., |> ...and that's even BEFORE we mention VMS! |> dI |> IBM+Alpha+VMS+Linux = Bye bye, Bill! Bye bye, Intel domination! ...and F |> Carly and Curly can go down in flames with their respective sinking	 |> ships.c |> n= |> Pure speculation and wishful thinking. No flames please...   I One other strong point about IBM.  They tend not to "burn their bridges".eE They have kept much (most? all?) of their old manufacturing facilites F even through the downtirn as can be seen by a visit to Endicott, NY or very likely Poughkeepsie.t  ? As for wether or  not VMS/Alpha would be seen as competing withh; other internal projects and thus a bad thing, remember the f: System34/System36/System38/AS400 which were all available 8 simultaneously and were all targeted at the same market.? I even knew people continued to use the older models, with full ? support long after IBM had stopped selling them in favor of ther
 newer models.i  ? One concept I think IBM has never lost site of is the customer.o   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Nov 2001 13:41:18 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Life After Alphaa+ Message-ID: <9tb25u$cvi$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>   3 In article <Coyx6$Z3TFrk@eisner.encompasserve.org>,c0  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:^ |> In article <3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: |> cD |> > IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existingH |> > agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it? |> eB |> I don't recall IBM having an Alpha license.  They have providedE |> fabrication services to Compaq, but that does not give them rightsp  |> to build Alphas on their own.  E Likely true, but wouldn't those rights come with buying the company??c   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:03:59 -0500a- From: "Rebecca Snyder" <rsnyder@atlasdie.com>y Subject: RE: Life After AlphaN? Message-ID: <MPBBIEGNHCKJGNKPHFAPIEECCOAA.rsnyder@atlasdie.com>w  I > Remember: IBM is *NOT* a computer company! IBM is a *MARKETING* companysF > that sells computers. Hitherto, "marketing" and "VMS" juxtaposed hasJ > constituted an oxymoron at both Digital and Compaq. With IBM's marketingE > prowess, IBM+Alpha would add up to a potential Itanic killer, IMHO.h+ > ...and that's even BEFORE we mention VMS!f  E IBM may do a lot of *marketing*, but if you ask the guys on my AS/400n* mailing list they will tell you otherwise!  9 Here's what one of them had to say about IBM's marketing:    <quote> G Well, not exactly "not advertising".  IBM is much smarter than that: byrK spending a lot of money on ineffectual advertising, they spend the money (atJ lot of advertising expenses can be expensed, thus reducing taxable income)H and get no results (no additional sales, thus keeping income depressed). </quote>  r= Yes, we have a VAX/VMS with homegrown software for one of ourr> businesses, but the other one we own runs MAPICS on an AS/400.? And our computer room didn't implode when we put an AS/400 nextg@ to our VAX! Although I *like* some of the stuff the AS/400 does,> I still don't think it will ever be a replacement for our VAX.? If we ever replace our VAX with a non-VMS solution, it will endp; up being a WinNT solution. I've used VAX/VMS since I was a w= sophomore in college (1987) and I am definitely biased to it!n  > So, as my mom says, "Be careful of what you wish for - you may< actually get it!" And IBM owning the rights to Alpha/Vax/VMS> might be what you asked for but it might not be what you want!   Rebecca Snyder   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:03:49 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: Life After Alpha.3 Message-ID: <$7LAIxJsbaXg@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  _ In article <9tb25u$cvi$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 5 > In article <Coyx6$Z3TFrk@eisner.encompasserve.org>,.2 >  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:` > |> In article <3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > |>  F > |> > IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existingJ > |> > agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it? > |> 0D > |> I don't recall IBM having an Alpha license.  They have providedG > |> fabrication services to Compaq, but that does not give them rightsn" > |> to build Alphas on their own. > G > Likely true, but wouldn't those rights come with buying the company??   F I took the phrase "room in the existing agreements" to mean agreementsI between DEQ and IBM.  You seem to be taking it to mean agreements between-H DEQ and Intel.  There is room for _anything_ in the DEC-Intel agreement,E since it explicitly is a non-exclusive license, in order to avoid anym antitrust complaints.1   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 09:04:51 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)E Subject: Re: Life After Alpham3 Message-ID: <RQg8EaepLPlB@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  c In article <20011117173302.19275.00000625@mb-ch.aol.com>, dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.) writes: O > While there has been much speculation on how VMS customers would react to theeQ > Alpha EOL and the planned merger with HP, what are large VMS customers actuallytQ > doing now?   If you work for a large VMS customer, could you post a descriptiontN > on how your firm is reacting?  Staying the course, waiting for IPF, planningO > migrations off VMS, contacting other vendors or just ignoring the situation? m  -    Making appropriate contacts within Compaq.7   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:26:38 -0500w( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Life After Alphat, Message-ID: <3BF9169E.5020300@tsoft-inc.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:     L > Given that Power4 is a pretty decent piece of work, do you think IBM wouldK > consider it worthwhile to add Alpha to their portfolio? Assuming that the J > VMS to IPF port works (I think it will), VMS no longer is tied to Alpha.    F The way I see it, IBM has a number of Power4 users, with whatever OSs E it's currently running.  If IBM could get all Alpha users to move to 1I Power4, then it would do that, and is in all likelyhood already involved eE in this effort.  But, there are customers who will never choose that 9G path.  It seems that there are a decent number of these customers, ie; iI all current VMS users who choose to stay with VMS.  As things stand now, .. these are not and will never be IBM customers.  F Should IBM manage to acquire VMS and VAX (making no assumptions here, E and leaving things wide open) and Alpha, then it will gain customers _F that otherwise it would never get.  Note that many of these customers G are just the type of customers IBM likes to have, enterprise customers s with big bucks.l  H Now I'm just a dumb bit pusher, and maybe all of the above reasoning is F flawed, and if so I'd like to know why.  Yes, there would be up front F and ongoing costs involved.  There would have to be profit potential. D But at least IBM appears to be a company that values profits and is  willing to work for them.S    I > And it wouldn't be all that difficult to a Power4 port of the IPF-ifiedt > VMS...  ' That would certainly be a valid option.o     Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:40:38 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Life After Alphat< Message-ID: <WJ9K7.4440$eh7.2916245@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message% news:9tb24d$cvi$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...u) > In article <3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net>,u6 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:e > |> >K > |> > Well, I doubt we qualify as a "large VMS customer" although our main K > |> > administrative systems are all Alpha's running VMS and I don't speakeK > |> > officially for the data center, but the last conversation I had withcD > |> > the management who did provided the information that they are pursuingJ > |> > the likelyhood of going to IBM.  Which is funny, as this was an all BlueI > |> > shop when I got here, converted to VAX/VMS, converted to Alpha/VMSe and K > |> > now appears to be about to come full circle.  Of course, if IBM weret to > |> > buy Compaq......  > |>? > |> Pure speculation and wishful thinking. No flames please...e >fD > Sure, rain on my parade.  Burst my bubble.  Thanks a lot....   :-) >eD > |> IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existingH > |> agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it?L > |> Remember: IBM is *NOT* a computer company! IBM is a *MARKETING* company > |> that sells computers. >e< > Your joking, right??  Who makes System-390's??  AS-400's??G > And the 390 shows they don't scrap older technology before it's time.-C > This is an architecture that has been in constant development foriG > several decades and still maintains backwards compatability with it's- > ancestors.  L And gee, they manage to be successful with mainframes even though they don'tB run OS/390 ads in the trade press and the Wall Street Journal! ;-}  I IBM is a damned good marketing company and they run circles around CPQ inr this regard.  K IBM is also a damned good research company. Look at their annual investment C in R&D and compare it with CPQ's steadily-diminishing R&D spending.o  I Not only does IBM not scrap older technology before its time, the firm iseL smart enough not to introduce new technology before its time. IBM never woulC da brought the VAX 9000 and its unproven HDSC technology to market!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:50:14 -0500i% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>h Subject: Re: Life After Alphac/ Message-ID: <tvie27hg88a287@news.supernews.com>n  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageh6 news:WJ9K7.4440$eh7.2916245@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >n@ > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message' > news:9tb24d$cvi$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... + > > In article <3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net>,m8 > >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > > |> Bill Gunshannon wrote:3 > > |> >H > > |> > Well, I doubt we qualify as a "large VMS customer" although our mainG > > |> > administrative systems are all Alpha's running VMS and I don'tr speakPH > > |> > officially for the data center, but the last conversation I had withF > > |> > the management who did provided the information that they are
 > pursuingL > > |> > the likelyhood of going to IBM.  Which is funny, as this was an all > BlueK > > |> > shop when I got here, converted to VAX/VMS, converted to Alpha/VMSs > andnH > > |> > now appears to be about to come full circle.  Of course, if IBM were > to > > |> > buy Compaq......b > > |>A > > |> Pure speculation and wishful thinking. No flames please...w > >eF > > Sure, rain on my parade.  Burst my bubble.  Thanks a lot....   :-) > >hF > > |> IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existingJ > > |> agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it?F > > |> Remember: IBM is *NOT* a computer company! IBM is a *MARKETING* companyt > > |> that sells computers. > >o> > > Your joking, right??  Who makes System-390's??  AS-400's??I > > And the 390 shows they don't scrap older technology before it's time.dE > > This is an architecture that has been in constant development forcI > > several decades and still maintains backwards compatability with it'sl > > ancestors. > H > And gee, they manage to be successful with mainframes even though they don'tsD > run OS/390 ads in the trade press and the Wall Street Journal! ;-} >e  J Huh?  I see them all the time.  They may not point out that the machine inH the ad is a S/390 or AS/400 but they're still pushing their magic boxes.J Have you seen the recent TV ads where the cops are called to investigate aL room full of missing servers?  Then the computer geek calmly expains that heK moved everything onto "that one" and points to a big black box.  Isn't thato; supposed to be a S/390 running multiple instances of Linux?s  K > IBM is a damned good marketing company and they run circles around CPQ in  > this regard. > B > IBM is also a damned good research company. Look at their annual
 investmentE > in R&D and compare it with CPQ's steadily-diminishing R&D spending.  >tK > Not only does IBM not scrap older technology before its time, the firm islI > smart enough not to introduce new technology before its time. IBM nevert woulE > da brought the VAX 9000 and its unproven HDSC technology to market!  >i >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:48:01 +0000r4 From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com> Subject: Re: Life After Alpha . Message-ID: <3BF953E1.D092018B@baesystems.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <3BF86010.A3A51B83@fsi.net>,h6 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: [snip] > D > Sure, rain on my parade.  Burst my bubble.  Thanks a lot....   :-) > D > |> IBM was making Alphas before... Is there still room in existingH > |> agreements for IBM to revive it, and actually MAKE SOMETHING of it?L > |> Remember: IBM is *NOT* a computer company! IBM is a *MARKETING* company > |> that sells computers. > < > Your joking, right??  Who makes System-390's??  AS-400's??G > And the 390 shows they don't scrap older technology before it's time.MC > This is an architecture that has been in constant development for=G > several decades and still maintains backwards compatability with it's  > ancestors.  - IBM used to be a Cash Register and time clockh3 company.  Being a marketing company has allowed IBM// to survive the change over to type writers and -' computers.  Its rivals no longer exist.r -- i7 _______________________________________________________L Andrew Swallow   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:53:09 +01001) From: "Jakob Erber" <erber@tiscalinet.ch>s* Subject: No advertisment for VMS stability+ Message-ID: <3bf92be8$1_1@news.datacomm.ch>    Hi,a  C the german Xetra trading system seems not to be too happy with VMS.l      , http://de.news.yahoo.com/011119/3/2c64e.html   regardsh   Jakobn   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 11:16:00 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u. Subject: Re: No advertisment for VMS stability3 Message-ID: <IfeJzWHDJIcX@eisner.encompasserve.org>I  W In article <3bf92be8$1_1@news.datacomm.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <erber@tiscalinet.ch> writes:t > Hi,f > E > the german Xetra trading system seems not to be too happy with VMS.r >  >  > . > http://de.news.yahoo.com/011119/3/2c64e.html >   # 	But in conclusion via translation:   J For the current disturbance the German stock exchange made an error in theG network program of the operating system, which controls responsible theEL connection of the central computers with the commercial systems. Updating ofM the Xetra software ("release change") on Monday was not against it a cause ofm the disturbance.  : 	So... system management error.  Seems they either need to? 	put a stiffer change control method and/or find new folks that + 	understand how to manage VMS.  No offense.a   				Robk   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 11:21:18 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h. Subject: Re: No advertisment for VMS stability3 Message-ID: <UuAidau43ezG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3bf92be8$1_1@news.datacomm.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <erber@tiscalinet.ch> writes:M > Hi,d > E > the german Xetra trading system seems not to be too happy with VMS.  >   E    I'm relying on a Babelfish translation (my technical German is nots;    that good), but it appears someone messed up the networkaC    configuration.  I wouldn't even blame Solaris for something like      that, why should I blame VMS.  >    Meanwhile, th e sentence on why they picked VMS looks good.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:36:31 +0000 (UTC)o From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk. Subject: Re: No advertisment for VMS stability+ Message-ID: <9tbfuv$stb$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>g  W In article <3bf92be8$1_1@news.datacomm.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <erber@tiscalinet.ch> writes:y >Hi, > D >the german Xetra trading system seems not to be too happy with VMS. >  >e >o- >http://de.news.yahoo.com/011119/3/2c64e.htmlo >d >regards >  >Jakob >   . Relying on babel fish to translate the german.  / But it appears that the latest problems were :--   "iG  For the current disturbance the German stock exchange made an error in L  the network program of the operating system, which controls responsible theJ  connection of the central computers with the commercial systems. UpdatingK  of the Xetra software (" release change ") on Monday was not against it a T  cause of the disturbance. "   G Suggests they screwed up the TCPIP configuration. Not an OS problem butv a human error problem.M (Note. It mentions earlier in the article that the frontends are connected to(, the central server in Frankfurt over TCPIP).    N They also mention a previous outage in July 2000 but don't give enough details& to work out what caused the problem :-   "tE In July 2000 the concerning express takers no more could not announceyJ themselves on the Xetra computer, because they could not authentifizieren % themselves technically on the server.r "e      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:45:00 -0500o* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>. Subject: RE: No advertisment for VMS stability- Message-ID: <0033000042073274000002L042*@MHS>e  ) =0AGotta love that automated translation-    "All your IP are belong to us."a   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETo( Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 12:35 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET. Subject: RE: No advertisment for VMS stability    H In article <3bf92be8$1_1@news.datacomm.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <erber@tiscal= inet.ch>
 writes: > Hi,t >lE > the german Xetra trading system seems not to be too happy with VMS.u >  >o >o. > http://de.news.yahoo.com/011119/3/2c64e.html >g  '      But in conclusion via translation:t  H For the current disturbance the German stock exchange made an error in = the H network program of the operating system, which controls responsible the=  H connection of the central computers with the commercial systems. Updati= ng ofMH the Xetra software ("release change") on Monday was not against it a ca= use of the disturbance.  >      So... system management error.  Seems they either need toC      put a stiffer change control method and/or find new folks thati/      understand how to manage VMS.  No offense.o                       Rob=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:13:47 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> . Subject: Re: No advertisment for VMS stability, Message-ID: <3BF94BD9.BDCCE0CD@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:G >    I'm relying on a Babelfish translation (my technical German is notw= >    that good), but it appears someone messed up the networkVE >    configuration.  I wouldn't even blame Solaris for something likev" >    that, why should I blame VMS.  M Still not good publicity for VMS. Same with all of the ebay problems, many of 6 which I am sure were not Sun's fault but ebay's fault.  M In the end, if VMS is associated with a failed system by the media, it is bad $ news whether VMS is involved or not.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:15:11 +0100-& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>. Subject: Re: No advertisment for VMS stability$ Message-ID: <3BF94C2F.794B@c-lab.de>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:c >   0 > Relying on babel fish to translate the german. > 1 > But it appears that the latest problems were :-. >  > "eI >  For the current disturbance the German stock exchange made an error iniN >  the network program of the operating system, which controls responsible theL >  connection of the central computers with the commercial systems. UpdatingL >  of the Xetra software (" release change ") on Monday was not against it a >  cause of the disturbance. > "B >   C The description is somewhat vague, but the critical sentence shouldo rather read as:   G German stock exchange claims that the responsibility of the fault (lackyF of authentication from the Xetra frontends to the backend) lies with a* 'network program of the operating system'.= Could be RSH proxy definitions, lack of access to UAF, etc...k  & Babelfish messed it up, in subtle way.  I > Suggests they screwed up the TCPIP configuration. Not an OS problem bute > a human error problem.  5 Actually, they rather claim it to be an OS problem...1  O > (Note. It mentions earlier in the article that the frontends are connected toe. > the central server in Frankfurt over TCPIP). >    > " G > In July 2000 the concerning express takers no more could not announceeK > themselves on the Xetra computer, because they could not authentifizieren ' > themselves technically on the server.  > "l     -- h* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Nov 2001 18:14:14 GMT- From: kraemer@clri6e.gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) . Subject: RE: No advertisment for VMS stability4 Message-ID: <9tbi5m$nhn$1@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>   The german sentence:  D "Fr die aktuelle Strung machte die Deutsche Brse einen Fehler im $ Netzwerkprogramm des Betriebssystems verantwortlich,"   translates into3  A "For the current malfunction the "Deutsche Brse" blames an errore2 in the network software of the operating system."   @ so this clearly (at least in german) indicates a VMS rather than an admin error.g   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:09:32 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: P/OS anyone?i3 Message-ID: <UOrdAPSXhMlZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  p In article <00A0520E.E9F6A67E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  K > Hmm.  Sorry to hear that.  I recall that you could purchase P/OS on RX50seJ > (some 50 odd floppies worth) from the DECUS library.  I don't know thereK > anybody provinging that "service" anymore.  The P/OS might still be arch-n6 > ived somewhere but finding 50+ RX50s will be tough.   H    I'm going to hope it's dirty contacts, then try looking for a crackedF    solder joint the hard way.  But right now I'm too busy fixing up my	    Alpha.o  "    And thanks again for the stuff.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:12:08 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h Subject: Re: P/OS anyone?o3 Message-ID: <oxdre+4Wa5TY@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  e In article <9t3jd3$pql$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> writes:  > ) > ftp.update.uu.se, in /pub/professional.  > J > You'll need an IBM PC with DOS (or Win95/98 might work), a 1.2 MB 5 1/4" > disk > drive, and some disks.  D    Yeah, I downloaded all the stuff onto my laptop.  But before I go@    looking for a stack of 5 floppies (I know where I can find aA    PC with a drive), I'll try to deal with the diagnostic data onr@    the Pro.  It seems to not be happy with the floppy controller8    and the hard disk controller, I'd better start there.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:12:38 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u Subject: Re: P/OS anyone?t3 Message-ID: <m15gedryt9lL@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  Z In article <3BF5A01F.522FD1E6@bellatlantic.net>, bad bob <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> writes: > bob,4 > there was a set of pro docs on ftp.update.uu.se...: > that had the diag codes and stuff if I recall correctly.      Yep, thanks, got those.   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Nov 2001 16:47:32 GMT- From: ejheller@aol.com.despam (Edward Heller) 0 Subject: Printing to HP 2200D from parallel port9 Message-ID: <20011119114732.19292.00001187@mb-ch.aol.com>i  M I have a client whose old serial printer died. They purchased a new HP 2200 DaO printer. They can print just fine from a PC, however when the printer is hooked K up to their Alpha's parallel port, nothing happens. I have tried to set the G printer to polled. That just makes the system think that the printer is " printing, when in fact it is not. N They are running OpenVMS 7.1-H2. I did not see any printer specific ECO's when? I looked through the (long) list, but I might have missed some.aJ If anyone has any thoughts on how I might resolve this, I would appreciate
 hearing them.   
 Edward Heller 
 TransCore ITSt   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:54:26 GMTtG From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> F Subject: RMS file structure internals documentation freely available ?6 Message-ID: <ma8K7.30157$xS6.47729@www.newsranger.com>  K Is there any documentation freely available on the internals of RMS files ? ( I am mainly interested in indexed files.  L I am aware of the chapter in the Guide to OpenVMS File Applications, as well, as the RMS_TOOLS section of the freeware CD.  H What I am looking for is documentation along the lines of that for ODS-2C in Chapter 2 of McCoy. Is such RMS documentation freely available ?h   Thanks for any information,n   Simon.  J PS: Anticipating Hoff :-), no, I am not trying to solve another (unstated)I problem. I really am just interested in the RMS file structure internals.e  J PPS: If such a document does not exist, is it the opinion of the internalsE people here that such a document could be put together using just the G _freely_ available information in, for example, sys$library:lib.req and- ANAL/RMS/INTER ?   -- 1@ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered aTE truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.9   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 11:02:26 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system.3 Message-ID: <8bPlGeeRiKu$@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  D    Well, we just had Solaris 7.x crash.  Why?  Becasue the user file6    system was out of space.  Not root, not swap, USER.  C    Wiped out several file systems, including the 26GB disk.  SystemuC    admins are feeling job security, hoping they have a good backup.e  D    Must be a feature.  Never had VMS pull this one, even though I'veD    seen some terrible things done to it's disks by privileged fools.  G    I wonder if Solaris 8 alters this feature?  Andrew out there?  Maybe>    he can look it up.,  >    Some how I don't feel this demonstrates Solaris as being anC    enterprize class OS.  Would you care to bet your bussines on it?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:18:27 -0500u5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>oB Subject: Re: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system.2 Message-ID: <tj75Oy4YDw2eEZih+VI+5Cunuok8@4ax.com>  A     Is there a reason your Solaris systems are running version 7?K4 That's not a particularly stable version of Solaris.   David R. Beatty   F On 19 Nov 2001 11:02:26 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   >?E >   Well, we just had Solaris 7.x crash.  Why?  Becasue the user filet7 >   system was out of space.  Not root, not swap, USER.n >cD >   Wiped out several file systems, including the 26GB disk.  SystemD >   admins are feeling job security, hoping they have a good backup. >.E >   Must be a feature.  Never had VMS pull this one, even though I'vegE >   seen some terrible things done to it's disks by privileged fools.  >rH >   I wonder if Solaris 8 alters this feature?  Andrew out there?  Maybe >   he can look it up. > ? >   Some how I don't feel this demonstrates Solaris as being anaD >   enterprize class OS.  Would you care to bet your bussines on it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:58:21 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tB Subject: Re: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system., Message-ID: <3BF9483C.27A4457B@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:@ >    Some how I don't feel this demonstrates Solaris as being anE >    enterprize class OS.  Would you care to bet your bussines on it?e  K But an enterprise class system should have enterprise class system managers  who monitor disk space.c  M You should note that VMS will freeze if the system disk becomes full. WhethercL it freezes for security reasons of because of a bug/crash, it still fails to9 provide the services it is meant to provide to customers.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:19:26 +0100 & From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>B Subject: Re: Solaris: ready for prime time?  Keep your VMS system.$ Message-ID: <3BF94D2E.15FB@c-lab.de>   Bob Koehler wrote: > F >    Well, we just had Solaris 7.x crash.  Why?  Becasue the user file8 >    system was out of space.  Not root, not swap, USER. > E >    Wiped out several file systems, including the 26GB disk.  System.E >    admins are feeling job security, hoping they have a good backup.t >   @ What do you mean with 'wiped out'? User FS out of space is quiteF complicated unless the writing process runs under UID 0 (i.e. 'root'),G as UFS (not sure about VXFS) normally reserves 5-10% of the FS space inh' order to avoid excessive fragmentation.l  6 Rather looks something else threw up on these disks...     -- c* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:06:25 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <5Hr3Pdfgbm9H@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <akIJ7.50970$hZ.4821948@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net> writes:  ) > "We the People of the United States".  h  F    ", in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insureA domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the E general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves andrG our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Unitedf States of America."s  A    Nothing there about exclusion of non-citizens.  This statementbC establishes who is responsible for the Constituion, why it is, and t) what it is.  (As in "details to follow".)s    e > The Constitution is aiK > convonent/contract entered into by the people of the united states(aka USBM > citizens).  The protections and rights are really just contracts between inoK > the parties involved in the contract(aka US citizens).  The contract onlyiJ > applied to those who have signed the contract.  The contract can only beE > signed by those parties who have been invited to sign the contract.n  C    There are over 200 million citizens, not one of which signed thee    establishing contract.t  H > In other words, if you don't have citizenship, any extention of the USK > constitution to grant you rights is solely at the discretion of congress.-  E    Said contract makes no such exclusion.  It states that the Federal@G government is fashioned in a certain manner and has certain powers.  ItaD says that the remaining powers are the proerty of the people and theA states.  It never says that the rights end at the border, or thateF visitors or outsiders shall not also have some rights.  All levels of E government in the US have recognized that visitors shall have rights.tF When visitors, or citizens, are outside the borders they may travel orC reside in areas who's governments don't recognize those rights, butr* that's not a fault of the US Constitution.  <    With or without writen Constitutional provision, the BushH administration's recent decision to have secret military courts makes itE look a little too much like Pinoche and his secret military tibunals. E Not the same, because Pinoche used them against his own citizens, but.C too much alike for comfort.  IMHO this is the first big mistake theb@ administration has made in response to the September 11 attacks.  E    The US does not need to look like a third world country.  We don'toC need uncertain electicity supplies and we don't need secret courts.n   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 15:29:38 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>xN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgH Message-ID: <y4vgg6ltpp.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  = "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:e  L > If he gets tried, it will be in a military court where secret evidence can; > be presented and yet not made know to the general public.u  L Such a procedure would be a public realtions disaster world-wide - not only,F but especially in Muslim countries. Heck, we got rid of the Gestapo to contemplate _that_!?   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 15:35:15 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>sN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgH Message-ID: <y4pu6eltgc.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e  I >    Acts of war don't require court verdicts before the government takes:$ >    action.  Never did, never will.  N Get it into your thick head: An individual cannot commit an act of war. Or areM you suggesting that the USA declar war on Saudi Arabia because of bin Laden's  putative acts?   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 15:33:06 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgH Message-ID: <y4snbaltjx.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:   A > 	Because it goes beyond pictures and conversations.  A judge in G > 	New Jersey had to *not* reveal how a mobster's keystrokes were being4G > 	recorded by the FBI.  Sometimes these techniques are the very things A > 	that need to be guarded.  We know what they are after... it isw* > 	important that methods not be revealed.  E Ah shucks. I can think of at least three or four different methods ofcH key-stroke monitoring of widely varying levels of difficulty and stealth= without even turning my brain on. This will deter the Mafia?    F You really should educate your judges, DAs and FBI "officials" better.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 15:37:12 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>-N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgH Message-ID: <y4n11iltd3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:    > 	Curves like SR71 has.  L The SR-71 is a lot of things, but it sure ain't stealthy. It doesn't have to be.    	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 15:44:15 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>.N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgH Message-ID: <y4k7wmlt1c.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / Robert Harley <harley@estephe.inria.fr> writes:d  E > I had the same impression as Bill when reading your article, Terry,-E > and I side entirely with him.  I'm afraid I have lost the respect IoM > once had for your statements, which is a pity because I used to have a lot.-  ' Wholeheartedly seconded, to the letter.h   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 15:47:05 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>tN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgH Message-ID: <y4herqlswm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ( "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:  L > Got it - in the world of Bill Todd anyone who sees things differently fromL > the great sage Todd is a weak-minded or obstinate fool.  It must be such aJ > burden on you being the absolute source of subjective of opinion that is > indisputably without error...t  M I have yet to read anything - from you, from Terry, from Compaq, from anybodyt9 - that puts substantative holes in Bill's arguumentation.p   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:24:11 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org< Message-ID: <vu9K7.4427$eh7.2903942@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  L "Jan Vorbrueggen" <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inJ message news:y4pu6eltgc.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...1 > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:u >nK > >    Acts of war don't require court verdicts before the government takese& > >    action.  Never did, never will. >hL > Get it into your thick head: An individual cannot commit an act of war. Or areeG > you suggesting that the USA declar war on Saudi Arabia because of bin0 Laden's  > putative acts? >n  1 Not exactly apropos to computing, but whatever...-  F I don't know the dictionary definition for the act of flying a pair ofJ commercial aircraft into the WTC and causing the, umm "putative" deaths ofB 4.5K civilians (and did I mention the couple hundred deaths at theG Pentagon?) but it sure as hell looks like a "hurtful and inappropriate"e
 action to me.d  G Tough to declare war on Osama Beena Vermin and his foul ilk, but the UStH Constitution provides another little-known option. The US Government canL grant a Letter of Marque and Reprisal. Been a long time since we've done so; back in the 1800s IIRC.m  * We now return to things computing-related.   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Nov 2001 16:27:54 GMT3 From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach)DN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org) Message-ID: <9tbbua$mdi$1@news.panix.com>a  < In article <vu9K7.4427$eh7.2903942@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,3 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote: H >Tough to declare war on Osama Beena Vermin and his foul ilk, but the USI >Constitution provides another little-known option. The US Government cannM >grant a Letter of Marque and Reprisal. Been a long time since we've done so;e >back in the 1800s IIRC.  A The Barbary Coast pirates in 1805? But I had thought congress didn8 declare war on them, even though they weren't a country.  C When Pershing went after Villa, was a letter of Marque and Reprisal2G granted? IIRC the U.S. had the permission (indeed, the request) of (onec1 of) the Mexican governments in place at the time.n  % Hmm ... I have some looking up to do.j -- l? While you don't greatly need the outside world, it's still veryc) reassuring to know that it's still there./   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:37:02 GMTh0 From: hooton@salem.zk3.dec.com (David D. Hooton)N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <OyaK7.1723$RL6.57136@news.cpqcorp.net>   O In article <vu9K7.4427$eh7.2903942@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" # <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:iJ |> Tough to declare war on Osama Beena Vermin and his foul ilk, but the USK |> Constitution provides another little-known option. The US Government can O |> grant a Letter of Marque and Reprisal. Been a long time since we've done so;g |> back in the 1800s IIRC.  G The U.S. signed a treaty (in the mid-1800s, IIRC) with several Europeanb nations banning the practice.i   							- DDH   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:53:19 GMTo. From: "Duane Sand" <duane.sand@mindspring.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org? Message-ID: <3OaK7.32145$RG1.15390934@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>P   >Duane Sand wrote: > > Curves like SR71 has.D   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:N > The SR-71 is a lot of things, but it sure ain't stealthy. It doesn't have to be.e  C SR-71 was indeed designed with an early very of stealth techniques,r@ to reduce its radar cross section somewhat and make it harder to@ shoot down.  (The main defenses being height and extreme speed.)   From book "Skunk Works":G p 197.  (in 1958) "The president was less interested in performance andgC more intent on pushing for the lowest radar cross section possible.kH It wasn't that he just didn't want to get us shot down -- he didn't want0 the Russians to know we were even up there.  ...G So we decided to apply radar-absorbing ferrites and plastics to all the-F airplane's leading edges -- a first in military aviation.  We kept theD twin tails as small as possible and decided to try to construct themB entirely with radar-absorbing composites."  [I think they switched> to Titanium.  The twin tails were also canted inward, to avoid; direct radar returns to plans or missiles at same altitude.i= Connections of wings and chines to body were curved, to avoidoB the 90-degree angular corner joins that form a perfect reflector.]  5 "in May 1959, we felt we had scored a breakthrough ino> dramatically lowering the radar cross section of the aircraft.> Oneof the structural designers presented the idea of modifying7 the bullet-shaped fuselage by adding a chine, a laterali8 downward sloped surface that gave the fuselage an almost8 cobralike appearance. Now the underbelly of the airplane3 was flat, and the radar cross section had magicallyo3 decreased by an incredible 90 percent."  [The finalp  design was a variation on this.]  3 p. 215 "Our chief chemist, Mel George, helped us tof4 develop special anti-radar coatings loaded with iron8 ferrites and laced with asbestos ... These coatings were1 effective in lowering the radar cross section andv7 comprised about 18 percent of the airplane's materials. ; In effect, the Blackbird became the first stealth airplane;t7 its radar cross section was signficantly lower than thev0 numbers the B-1B bomber was able to achieve more than twenty-five years later."   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 18:02:50 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>aN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgH Message-ID: <y4elmuk81x.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:t  M > The only thing that they should keep quiet is the number of satellites theyvM > have and their orbits. This way, I can't use my PDA to calculate when thereoO > would likely be no satellites overhead, allowing me to run to the convenience K > store to buy a chocolate bar and then run back home without the USA beingaE > able to take a picture of what type of chocolate bar I just bought.s  I Doesn't help. Any competent amateur astronomer, with expenditure of a few J hundred dollars - and there are tens of thousands all over the world - canN find them and compute their orbits with freely available software. The opticalK ones are large because of their optical system, the radar ones because theyrN are power-hungry, and the SIGINT ones because of their large antennas. And theK more difficult they are to find, the less use they are (hint: higher orbits 3 give less resolution and higher revisit intervals).    	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:09:01 GMT 3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3BF93C06.65528E55@cableinet.co.uk>t   David Froble wrote:l  i > E > Another brilliant idea, (I'm just full of them).  Let the IsrailiesbE > kidnap him from us.  I'm sure that they will know how to handle the?7 > founder and head of an international terrorist group.  >   F have you been watching too many Holywood blockbusters, recently, Dave?  F > Ok, try to convince me that the founder and head of an international: > terrorist group even deserves the courtesy of a trial.    1 so, what you gonna do with that Israeli PM then? :   >Show me the= > trial that condemned all the victums on September 11, 2001.3   or the West Bank, for example? h  @ Is Bill Todd the only yank with any foreign affairs perspective?   regards  -- t Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of a! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 18:10:33 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>fN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgH Message-ID: <y4bshyk7p2.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  H > I don't know the dictionary definition for the act of flying a pair of# > commercial aircraft into the WTC    J One useful word would be "terrorism". Another could be "guerilla tactics". "War" isn't among them.s  : > and causing the, umm "putative" deaths of 4.5K civilians  4 Your parsing skills are in dire need of improvement.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 11:17:22 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)UN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <aDlimGEVzuGI@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <y4n11iltd3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:/ > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:r >  >> 	Curves like SR71 has.G > N > The SR-71 is a lot of things, but it sure ain't stealthy. It doesn't have to > be.  >   = 	Actually... it has some stealthiness.  At least that is what2 	the TV show claimed.m   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:40:40 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF95225.B9915DF9@videotron.ca>   Andrew Swallow wrote:e5 > I am sure that the Northern Alliance would be happyh4 > to arrange an Islamic Trial.  Allow 1 week for the8 > USA to provide the witnesses and 1 week for the trial.5 > Execution to be performed half an hour after guiltyc
 > verdict.    N The guy will be shot on sight, and his body then handed over to US authoritiesL for the $25 million bounty. The problem is what those warriors from northernL alliance will do with that $25 million bucks.  Start a new terrorist group ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:35:56 +0000 4 From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3BF9510C.39F1E8@baesystems.com>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > ? > "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:e > N > > If he gets tried, it will be in a military court where secret evidence can= > > be presented and yet not made know to the general public.e > N > Such a procedure would be a public realtions disaster world-wide - not only,H > but especially in Muslim countries. Heck, we got rid of the Gestapo to > contemplate _that_!? >   3 I am sure that the Northern Alliance would be happys2 to arrange an Islamic Trial.  Allow 1 week for the6 USA to provide the witnesses and 1 week for the trial.3 Execution to be performed half an hour after guilty  verdict. -- o7 _______________________________________________________e Andrew Swallow   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:16:08 -0800h0 From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com>* Subject: SRM software for alpha server 800; Message-ID: <001201c1711d$e16c83a0$cb96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>r  * Can someone tell me where I can find this?* or does it not matter which box it is for?  8 I just got one of these and would like to put VMS on it    Thanks Hank Vander Waal Mansco   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:41:21 -0800t0 From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com>. Subject: RE: SRM software for alpha server 800; Message-ID: <001301c17121$674ca420$cb96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>   # Never mind    - has to be Monday !!h# :)   just did not read far enough !i   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:57:24 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)W= Subject: Re: Virtual Terminals and suppressing error messagess3 Message-ID: <eppK7vLLsLSk@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  e In article <20011116.140757.1987231011.4015@hotmail.com>, "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> writes: 
 > Hey all! >  > K > Just 2 quick questions...anyway to enable virutal terminals with OpenVMS?gJ >  Also, I was wondering if there's a way to suppress error messages...forC > example during a copy operation...any way to kill these?  Thanks!t      2 quick answers: yes, yes.e   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:55:20 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)lE Subject: Re: VMS debug image runs OK but nocheck, check version crashc3 Message-ID: <y+gVY5wu9WOg@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  p In article <7042227b.0111150905.199e056a@posting.google.com>, pearsonb@windows-devel.com (Brian Pearson) writes: > C > 1. Anyone experiences this problem after upgrading to OpenVMS/VAXF > Version 7.2.   Nope, sounds like buggy code.4  D > 2. Anyone have experience debugging an nondebug version of an EXE.  G Sure.  You do speak MACRO-32, don't you?  VAX compilers are pretty easywH to relate back to the original source, especially when you compiler withA /list/machine_code or it's equivalent (varies between compilers).u  @ > 3. Access violation usually implies memory read/write problemsE > (example, off the end of an array or to address 0). Anybody know ofJD > any other access violations associated with devices or logical IO.  8 Devices and I/O have nothing to do with condition code CG (SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO), except that a poorly written program could trip overC( itself after doing a buffer overrun I/O.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:47:53 -0800 (PST)r. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>D Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!@ Message-ID: <20011119114753.74819.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>   Hey ?S  1 VMS in PowerPC ? No way ! VMS in Sparc ? No way !a  3 But I will reiterate: VMS should go to Intel hands.t4 There is no escape now. Itanium is Alpha inside. The1 timing of portability will be lower than to othere* Processor. I am not against this port, but1 I dont believe Compaq/HP will support the ISV andh1 help/sponsor them to port their VMS applications.a! They will not give "incentive"...    Regards,   FC=20F  2 --- Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:0 > In article <3BF5608B.3020302@compaq.com>, John) > Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com> writes:r > > Bob Ceculski wrote:-5 > >> If IBM bought Compaq they could use either alphas > or power or a combog6 > >> to run VMS and rule the high end ... linux is not > high end!m > >>=20o > >=202 > > The problem would be with compilers.  We don't > have a Power target for=203 > > GEM and with most of the compiler folks headingt > off to Intel, it=20 6 > > wouldn't likely happen.  So unless IBM has a BLISS > and MACRO compiler=20o- > > lying around that generates Power code...i >=200 > But IBM must have a compiler backend for Power > already, and peoplew5 > who maintain it.  Yes, it would take work, and costo money.     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D  F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilI fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Da  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 08:50:01 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sD Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!3 Message-ID: <+YL1xAKWbdkx@eisner.encompasserve.org>I  g In article <4qmJ7.8027$4m.652146@news2.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:r > N > I'm reasonably sure that NT ran little-endian on PPC back when NT on PPC was > a product.  '    IIRC OS/2 runs little endian on PPC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:03:52 GMTm4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: VMS on IBM power chip would make IBM No. 1 in high end!< Message-ID: <I3aK7.4454$eh7.2928925@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:5.1.0.14.2.20011116104611.00a86400@raptor.psccos.com...- > At 10:42 AM 11/16/2001, Bob Ceculski wrote:.G > >If IBM bought Compaq they could use either alpha or power or a comboi> > >to run VMS and rule the high end ... linux is not high end! >@+ > ..and pigs could be taught to fly <grin>.. > G > Do you REALLY think they would give up their flagship midrange systemd (OS400)i > in favor of VMS?  J Hell no. Do the math: AS400 brings in lots more filthy lucre than VMS everF did. At its peak, the AS400 business was $15B, bigger than DEC itself.  ; Remember, IBM originally marketed that as the "VAX-Killer".b  I The trade press called the 9370 the VAX Killer. They were dead wrong. TheuH AS400, however, sure as hell deprived DEC of a lot of potential revenue.    And it's a nice machine besides.   >fH > IBM buying CPQ would be about the worst scenario from VMS's standpoint that > could occur.  J Can't see the rationale for making such an acquisition in the first place.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 11:05:30 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: war is war 3 Message-ID: <PUSTSvlmGeN0@eisner.encompasserve.org>r   In article <y4pu6eltgc.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > P > Get it into your thick head: An individual cannot commit an act of war. Or areO > you suggesting that the USA declar war on Saudi Arabia because of bin Laden'sn > putative acts?  F    Bin Laden is the leader of Al Queda (sp?).  My head is not so thickF    as to fail to recognize that the US has declared war on such groupsA    in the past, and what happened September 11 was an act of war.V  C    And I do beleive that the US should have declared war on both All3    Queda and the Taliban government of Afghanistan.e   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 09:07:46 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e( Subject: Re: what to do with old alpha's3 Message-ID: <9L4kROEDCMZI@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  T In article <9t6rj3$guh$1@news1.xs4all.nl>, "Wim_K" <verledentijd@homail.com> writes:  C > Can I use these AXP's for this, or is Unix way faster and better?     B    Yes.  And if you install Compaq Tru64 UNIX on them, you will beB    doing both.  Certainly you can do them while running VMS, do it    and show it to your boss.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2001 07:10:09 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org6 Subject: Re: Why doesn't CPUTIME stop process in time?3 Message-ID: <cUWxsEnB$p6e@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  W In article <3bf59651$1@baja.bluevine.net>, "Marc Chametzky" <marc@bluevine.net> writes:<L >> Theory: DCL is running in super mode, so when the cputime is exceeded, it > is% >> given 10 more secsc in super mode.l > M > Actually, I think the issue may be that you're not running an image at all.sM > You're really "running" DCL.EXE, but that's not an image loaded into P0 andu) > I don't think you can $FORCEX DCL.. :-)e > N > So, the $FORCEX gets completely lost. You then go to EXTRACPU time, and when9 > that's up, you get a $DELPRC and the process goes away.e  D There are four $FORCEX's, one for each access mode.  If I understand< rightly, they fire in sequence as each ration of CPU time is
 exhausted.  F $FORCEX is (or was -- it's been a while) a thin jacket around SCH$QASTE which queues an AST to the target process.  The AST routine is $EXIT.D) And the AST parameter is the status code.D  H The user mode AST gets queued but not delivered since the target process" is running DCL in supervisor mode.  B I'd expect the supervisor mode AST to be delivered and trigger CLIF rundown.  The process will be gone before the executive or kernel mode4 $FORCEX's or the final $DELPRC get a chance to fire.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.644 ************************