1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 27 Nov 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 659       Contents:; Re: "Why Great Companies Fail": Includes DEC (perhaps HP ?) ; Re: "Why Great Companies Fail": Includes DEC (perhaps HP ?) & Re: Can We Turn Down the Flames a Bit?( Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer)5 Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left? 9 Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?  Re: DEC C Error on GS v7.03  Re: DECUS in many names  Re: dnsquery Re: dnsquery Re: dnsquery Re: dnsquery, Re: DSSI VAXcluster manual on line anywhere?, Re: DSSI VAXcluster manual on line anywhere? Re: F$GETQUI wildcard bug??  Re: F$GETQUI wildcard bug?? ! Fall 2001 VMS SIG tapes announced  Have a nice day !  HP Humor Re: HP Humor Re: HP Humor Re: Internet Server Software Re: Internet Server Software Re: Invitation... ' Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me? ' Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me?  Re: JAVA 1.3 Slow launch Logging off inactive users RE: Logging off inactive users Re: Logging off inactive users Re: Logging off inactive users Re: Logging off inactive users Re: Mounting a disk  Re: newsreaders... Re: newsreaders... Re: NTP under TCPIP V5.1/ Re: Obtaining System Serial Number via Software / Re: Obtaining System Serial Number via Software @ Re: Of Bogusity and Benchmarketeering (was Re: Life After Alpha) Re: OpenVMS book in bookstores OT Re: AMAZON RAIN FOREST  PATHWORKS Licensing  Re: PATHWORKS Licensing  Point at the end of Logicals? ! Re: Point at the end of Logicals? ! Re: Point at the end of Logicals? A Re: RMS file structure internals documentation freely available ? A Re: RMS file structure internals documentation freely available ?  Re: RWAST problems - Part ...  Re: RWAST problems - Part ...  Re: RWAST problems - Part ... 6 Re: Samba 2.0.3 handling of files with no ".extension" Re: Sethi second editionE Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org E Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org " Re: Trying to summarise the issues! Re: vms developers: beware of PSP ! Re: vms developers: beware of PSP  vms dump Re: vms dump Re: vms dump Re: vms dump+ XML Test Problems & Java Performance Query.  Re: You are invited to this  䭺 Music Video Qת   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:21:37 +0000 4 From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com>D Subject: Re: "Why Great Companies Fail": Includes DEC (perhaps HP ?). Message-ID: <3C029641.6278D44E@baesystems.com>   John McLean wrote: >  [snip] > E > Rubbish.  PCs offered something that Digital's best customers could H > use.  All the customers had to do was go and buy them.  The problem ofH > course was that DEC had no significant desktop offering to match them. > 5 DEC customers were not just the big companies but the 4 big companies central computer departments.   I know4 of several computing departments that considered PCs3 to be toys and rejected them.   The diagnosis fits.  --  7 _______________________________________________________ + Andrew Swallow (7605) 2225   Cowes site, UK  andrew.swallow@baesystems.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:15:53 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> D Subject: Re: "Why Great Companies Fail": Includes DEC (perhaps HP ?), Message-ID: <3C02DB38.9C605FFE@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:J > Wrong - companies weren't buying PCs until they were useful.  It was notB > what it represented that mattered but what it could actually do.F > Word-processing and spreadsheets were the "killer apps" that got PCs4 > moving because they made an office more efficient.  M Sorry, but Digital had it then.  Way before Microsoft. Email, word processing L etc. The problem with Digital is that it targetted IBM mainframes and pricedN itself as such, refusing to see the PC as a threath. And once the tide startedI to flow towards the PC, Digital prefered to abandon the market instead of L pricing itself competitively. The fear of course was that providing low costJ desktop/office servers woudl cannabalise high value large computers sales.  N Better to give your big customers cheap solution that are less profitable thanK to lose the customers alltogether to the competition from bith Sun and PCs.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:09:05 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> / Subject: Re: Can We Turn Down the Flames a Bit? D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111262007480.17277-100000@world.std.com>  9 On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:   v > In article <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111261018160.10343-100000@world.std.com>, Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> writes: > {...snip...} > > M > >IMHO this doesn't accomplish a thing. I think hell will freeze over before I > >Compaq recants its IPF decision, but if we technically-oriented Usenet J > >denizens confine our discourse to technical topics, perhaps Compaq will2 > >pay a bit more attention to our points of view. > H > The Eagles also said that they'd never reunite unless Hell froze over. > G > We can, at least, hold out hope for another exothermic period in Dis?  > --  G That we can! I'd love to see Compaq prove me wrong re: IPF recantation!    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2001 01:50:46 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) 1 Subject: Compaq's Secret VMS Plans (The Inquirer) ' Message-ID: <9turhm$805$2@joe.rice.edu> & Keywords: secret,vms,plans,mark,gorham  *    http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htm    Compaq's secret VMS plans    Another mole squeaks   0    By our own Eva Glass, 27/11/2001 00:32:30 BST  '    DAY TWELVE IN THE QAPELLAS COUNTDOWN      "From: Gorham, Mark %    To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group     Subject: OpenVMS IPF Update  '    Dear OpenVMS Engineering Colleagues,   E    It has been nearly four months since we announced the Alpha-to-IPF B    port. The OpenVMS Engineering team has made amazing progress inF    identifying the work needed and the direction we are taking for theI    overall VMS business. I want to give you some of the highlights of the     porting effort in this memo.   H    We have a multi-phased plan for delivering IPF-based OpenVMS systems.  F    Phase 1 involves booting OpenVMS on an IPF system. We will be usingI    cross compilers for C, Bliss, and Macro running on Alpha initially for F    this, creating a working boot environment, and then bringing in the=    native compilers. We are targeting H2 2002 for this phase.   C    Phase 2 is to ship a revenue-generating environment to key ISVs, @    partners, and early adopters. This will include a core set ofI    compilers, network protocols, and development tools, and will be fully H    supported by services. We are targeting at least two shipments to keyF    ISVs, partners and early adopters during this phase f{ the first inG    early 2003 with the second following in the second half of the year.   :    Phases 3, 4, and Beyond are to ship production quality,H    revenue-generating environments to general distribution. We will rollI    out increasing suites of layered products and ISV solutions over these D    phases, and will offer increasing levels of clustering over theseD    phases. The first production quality phase is scheduled for early    2004.  %    Some other highlights in the plan:   F    Our capital plan was approved by management, and we should have ourI    first IPF-based systems arriving soon. It is uncertain whether we will I    use ProLiant DL590/64 platforms or HP hardware like the NSK developers '    are using for their porting project.   E    Our incremental headcount plan was approved, and we are hiring new     developers.  >    We will have a binary translator from Alpha to IPF for VMS.  H    We will develop and offer Mixed Architecture VMSclusters. TechnicallyH    we can offer mixed VAX-Alpha-IPF clusters. We need to figure out whatG    customers will want in the 2004-and-future timeframe, and as always, F    what we can work into our test and qualification resource plan. The1    need for VAX support is somewhat questionable.   B    We will be porting almost the entire OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 layeredH    product portfolio over to IPF.. We anticipate that we will be able toF    recompile and relink for the great majority of the layered products=    with the bulk of the porting effort devoted to testing and I    qualification. We dont think we need to port products in retirement, G    product in mature product support, and products that we never ported     to Alpha.  F    Our key ISVs, including Oracle, are very supportive of the port. WeG    now have quotes from over half of our top ISVs committing to port to G    IPF, and we have a goal of achieving 90 percent buy-in by the end of H    the quarter. We are working closely with our key ISVs to make sure weD    are doing everything possible to allow them to support OpenVMS on>    Alpha and IPF systems quickly, easily, and effectively. TheG    Compaq/Intel deal has matching funds from Intel for ISV porting, and F    we will leverage this to bring significantly increased resources to    our ISVs.  E    Marketing also has matching funds as part of the agreement, and we E    have put a plan forward to leverage our H2 2001 marketing spending G    with Intel funds. We have a detailed communication plan rolling out, H    and are working a large number of go to market plans. In the meantimeF    we need to keep our attention focused on selling current and futureA    Alpha systems, and we need to make sure we keep delivering key 8    messages and features for Alpha while we do the port.  H    Thanks for all your hard work, both in developing the IPF plan and inI    keeping the engineering, support, and marketing going for the existing H    OpenVMS business. It has been an exciting four months and I know manyE    of you have spent a lot of extra time helping with this critically     important project.       Best Regards       Mark Gorham"    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 16:48:11 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111261648.2fb0823f@posting.google.com>   D this sounds very encouraging ... any doubters left about VMS future?  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htm    Compaq's secret VMS plans    Another mole squeaks  - By our own Eva Glass, 27/11/2001 00:32:30 BST   $ DAY TWELVE IN THE QAPELLAS COUNTDOWN From: Gorham, Mark  " To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group Subject: OpenVMS IPF Update   $ Dear OpenVMS Engineering Colleagues,  B It has been nearly four months since we announced the Alpha-to-IPF? port. The OpenVMS Engineering team has made amazing progress in C identifying the work needed and the direction we are taking for the F overall VMS business. I want to give you some of the highlights of the porting effort in this memo.  F We have a multi-phased plan for delivering IPF-based OpenVMS systems.   C Phase 1 involves booting OpenVMS on an IPF system. We will be using F cross compilers for C, Bliss, and Macro running on Alpha initially forC this, creating a working boot environment, and then bringing in the : native compilers. We are targeting H2 2002 for this phase.  @ Phase 2 is to ship a revenue-generating environment to key ISVs,= partners, and early adopters. This will include a core set of F compilers, network protocols, and development tools, and will be fullyE supported by services. We are targeting at least two shipments to key E ISVs, partners and early adopters during this phase &#402;{ the first A in early 2003 with the second following in the second half of the  year.   7 Phases 3, 4, and Beyond are to ship production quality, E revenue-generating environments to general distribution. We will roll F out increasing suites of layered products and ISV solutions over theseA phases, and will offer increasing levels of clustering over these A phases. The first production quality phase is scheduled for early  2004.   # Some other highlights in the plan:    C Our capital plan was approved by management, and we should have our F first IPF-based systems arriving soon. It is uncertain whether we willF use ProLiant DL590/64 platforms or HP hardware like the NSK developers$ are using for their porting project.  B Our incremental headcount plan was approved, and we are hiring new developers.   < We will have a binary translator from Alpha to IPF for VMS.   E We will develop and offer Mixed Architecture VMSclusters. Technically E we can offer mixed VAX-Alpha-IPF clusters. We need to figure out what D customers will want in the 2004-and-future timeframe, and as always,C what we can work into our test and qualification resource plan. The . need for VAX support is somewhat questionable.  ? We will be porting almost the entire OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 layered E product portfolio over to IPF.. We anticipate that we will be able to C recompile and relink for the great majority of the layered products : with the bulk of the porting effort devoted to testing andF qualification. We dont think we need to port products in retirement,D product in mature product support, and products that we never ported	 to Alpha.   C Our key ISVs, including Oracle, are very supportive of the port. We D now have quotes from over half of our top ISVs committing to port toD IPF, and we have a goal of achieving 90 percent buy-in by the end ofE the quarter. We are working closely with our key ISVs to make sure we A are doing everything possible to allow them to support OpenVMS on ; Alpha and IPF systems quickly, easily, and effectively. The D Compaq/Intel deal has matching funds from Intel for ISV porting, andC we will leverage this to bring significantly increased resources to 	 our ISVs.   B Marketing also has matching funds as part of the agreement, and weB have put a plan forward to leverage our H2 2001 marketing spendingD with Intel funds. We have a detailed communication plan rolling out,E and are working a large number of go to market plans. In the meantime C we need to keep our attention focused on selling current and future2> Alpha systems, and we need to make sure we keep delivering key5 messages and features for Alpha while we do the port.s  E Thanks for all your hard work, both in developing the IPF plan and iniF keeping the engineering, support, and marketing going for the existingE OpenVMS business. It has been an exciting four months and I know manyyB of you have spent a lot of extra time helping with this critically important project.   Best Regards   Mark Gorhamn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:22:10 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>VB Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?' Message-ID: <3C030A5F.D2CF45B8@fsi.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote:a > F > this sounds very encouraging ... any doubters left about VMS future? > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htmi >  > Compaq's secret VMS plansb >  > Another mole squeaks/ > By our own Eva Glass, 27/11/2001 00:32:30 BSTo > & > DAY TWELVE IN THE QAPELLAS COUNTDOWN > From: Gorham, Mark$ > To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group > Subject: OpenVMS IPF Updatee  # 1. Whence comes this to Mike Magee?i  E 2. Since when does Gorham's authority preclude further stupidity by Q57 "higher-ups"? Has he replaced Capellas as Chairman/CEO?   D Sorry, but this hardly constitutes being VMS's future being "cast inH stone". It purports great hope, granted. Wonder if something similar wasG circulated at HP prior to the recent announcements concerning MPE & Co.   F For one thing, even if authentic, consider the ultimate source: peopleH with a greater credibility problem than your average super-max inmate or politician.i   --   David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/W   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:25:06 +0100s1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>iB Subject: Re: Compaqs VMS plans for IPF port ... any doubters left?5 Message-ID: <3C0331C2.5BED3103@swissonline.delete.ch>    Bob Ceculski wrote:I > F > this sounds very encouraging ... any doubters left about VMS future? > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/27110101.htm  >  > Compaq's secret VMS planso >  ...o  F It sounds positive and in typical Compaq fashion we find the leaks areE more effective at communication than official Compaq statements.  (Orp= was it a leak thrown especially to c.o.v. to keep us quiet ?)n  C I have some reservations about some of the document and it would benD interesting to have more detail but maybe - just maybe - Compaq haveG seen a light.  One snowflake doesn't make a winter and I hope there's an' lot more follow-up to this Gorham paper     C I did notice a couple of interesting sentences and here they are ..P  J > The Compaq/Intel deal has matching funds from Intel for ISV porting, andE > we will leverage this to bring significantly increased resources toi > our ISVs.h > D > Marketing also has matching funds as part of the agreement, and weD > have put a plan forward to leverage our H2 2001 marketing spendingF > with Intel funds. We have a detailed communication plan rolling out,7 > and are working a large number of go to market plans.i    B It sounds like Compaq plucking up the courage to make some kind of- commitment to VMS, albeit with Intel's money.r  G Communication plan in something other than PCs" ?  Compaq ??  Show us !      John McLeann   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:49:57 +0100e2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)$ Subject: Re: DEC C Error on GS v7.03; Message-ID: <3c028ed5.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>o  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > Rick Dyson wrote:e > >Martin Vorlaender wrote:q1 > >> Richard L. Dyson (rickdyson@home.com) wrote: M > >> > I am working on getting GS v7.03 working for my OpenVMS systems.  I am N > >> > using Compaq C v6.4-008 on an OpenVMS/Alpha v7.2-1 system.  I get quiteM > >> > a way into the build when I get the following errors that are entirely  > >> > new to me: 
 > >> [...]C > >> > CC/NODEBUG/OPTIMIZE/DECC/PREFIX=ALL/NESTED_INCLUDE=PRIMARY - 4 > >> > /NAME=(AS_IS,SHORT)/DEFINE=("HAVE_MKSTEMP") -M > >> > /INCLUDE=([.obj] ,[.src]) /OBJECT=[.obj]gdevpdfo.obj  [.src]gdevpdfo.ceJ > >> > Assertion failure:  Deleting instruction with DefinesRoutineCtx set > >> > Instruction:MR > >> > COD INSTRUCTION  BNE  : NEXT=0109B848, PREV=0109B498, LOCATOR={17224:1-30}, > >> > S... K > >> >          DEFINES_ROUTINE_CTX, OPCODE=66, NOT_IN_CURRENT_RTN, OP1=R1,w > >> > OP2=Targ...H > >> > %GEM-F-ASSERTION, Deleting instruction with DefinesRoutineCtx set. > >> >       Does anyone have any suggestions? > >>  G > >> I haven't seen this before, either. But given the "PEEPHOLE" clue:b3 > >> How does it go if you compile it /NOOPTIMIZE ?o > >a
 > >Hi Martin,e > >hG > >	I did not think very hard on the problem, but with your suggestion,oN > >I ran it manually once with /NoOptimize and it compiled cleanly without any	 > >error.t > >oD > >	Now, I just have to figure out how to force that one into the GS? > >build script without making it true for EVERY source file...  > > J > >	Thanks, now I should be able to continue on until the next problem. :)  M > UUGh.  I've known Martin here for a while, but I have to disagree with his -3 > suggestion as a result rather than a work-around.  >rL > I am a Fortran programmer with a small amount of C, but a GEM assertion on7 > VMS is usually the common backend of their compilers.3  F Given the wording of the error messages I would suspect the problem in the optimizer.    > Any GEM assertion, regardless 1 > of the wording, I would suggest contacting CSC.    That's always good advice.  L > Nooptimise is usually just a workaround.  It may change your code a bit toG > let it operate (as does sometimes adding a print statement).  Add allrB > warnings and  checks in the compilation and compile with /debug. >tM > O.K., this is ostensibly a compile problem, but if you can compile without  J > optimisation, then a debug run might highlight a problem in the GS code.  G Not in my experience. There's a perfectly normal piece of C code in thehG Digest::MD5 perl module that gets the Compaq C compiler into an endlesslH loop (also the optimizer, I assume, as it compiles OK with /NOOPTIMIZE).  G No software is perfect. Less so something like an optimizer that has torF cope with a lot of heuristics. Nevertheless, I do rate Compaq compilerD optimizers under the best in the world of compilers. Too bad much of! that knowledge has gone to Intel.    cu,c   Martin -- uA                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer0. Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/I5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.deC   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:31:04 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e  Subject: Re: DECUS in many names' Message-ID: <3C02FE65.B3FF6AA7@fsi.net>-   rochelle lauer wrote:z > [snip]M > As for VMS ... VMS has a longer history than TRU64 and therefore an alreadye8 > established infrastructure for customer participation.   It has?   F Granted, I'm hardly the most well-heeled poster in this group. This isA news to me (18+ years experience with VMS, 10 years membership inl DECUS/Encompass).r  9 May I trouble you to elucidate? Please expound profusely.-   > Encompass is trying to work:V > within that system to establish a presence and have influence within an accepted and > acceptable forum.g  E I'm likely not the only here who would appreciate some plain-languagem- guidelines on how to be accepted, acceptably.   C I realize this sounds pretty bad, but neither asking politely (both H privately and publicly) nor ranting, cursing and demanding have producedC any tangible results. I'm likely not the only here who is well past H wit's end. If I knew how to proceed, litigation would likely be my court of last resort.e   -- l David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsA http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:40:18 -0500.- From: Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>h Subject: Re: dnsqueryn- Message-ID: <3C029AA1.FC7E58D6@bellsouth.net>f  K While this does work, it is not complete. If you have a domain name that is J "parked" at it's registrar, it does not necessarily show up as being used.   case and point:  $ nslookup digital.com Server:  ns.bellsouth.netv Address:  205.152.0.5gE *** ns.bellsouth.net can't find digital.com: Non-existent host/domaine  & $nslookup digital.com dns1.infoave.net Server:  dns1.InfoAve.NetS Address:  165.166.0.2eE *** dns1.InfoAve.Net can't find digital.com: Non-existent host/domainr  B but it is still not available.   But linux-based dnsquery returns:  + %dnsquery digital.com  !!! exist but parked 9 ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 61201aD ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2+ ;;      digital.com, type = ANY, class = IN C digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com.mC digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com.oC digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com. C digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com.t9 NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com.  12h27m47s IN A  161.114.64.24 9 NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com.  12h27m47s IN A  161.114.1.204p  5 $ dnsquery -v fdslka.com  ###non-existent domain name ) Query failed (h_errno = 1) : Unknown hosti   Thanks,    Michael Austin; DBA Consultant  -- learning to be a network expert as well.K     Tim Llewellyn wrote:  8 > UCX/TCP IP Services has nslookup, if that is any help. >aE > $  @sys$startup:tcpip$define_commands  ! Use UCX not TCPIP if V4 orv > belowy
 > $  nslookupm* > Default Server:  server.name.removed.com > Address:  a.b.c.di >t > > www.compaq.com" > Server:  server.name.removed.com > Address:  a.b.c.de >e > Name:    www.compaq.coms > Address:  161.114.19.252 >d > >r >i	 > Regardsd >  > Michael Austin wrote:w > >n > > OpenVMS 7.2-1l > > TCPIP 5.0A > >aJ > > Has anyone ported the unix dnsquery tool to OpemVMS.  It allows one to6 > > find out if a particular domain name is available. > >u
 > > Thanks > > Michael Austin >i > -- > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uki >aD > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of# > my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Nov 2001 22:40:55 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)s Subject: Re: dnsquerya+ Message-ID: <9tugdn$rof$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>y  - In article <3C029AA1.FC7E58D6@bellsouth.net>,h0  Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> writes:N |> While this does work, it is not complete. If you have a domain name that isM |> "parked" at it's registrar, it does not necessarily show up as being used.e |> s |> case and point: |> $ nslookup digital.comb |> Server:  ns.bellsouth.net |> Address:  205.152.0.5H |> *** ns.bellsouth.net can't find digital.com: Non-existent host/domain |> n) |> $nslookup digital.com dns1.infoave.net  |> Server:  dns1.InfoAve.Net |> Address:  165.166.0.2H |> *** dns1.InfoAve.Net can't find digital.com: Non-existent host/domain |> hE |> but it is still not available.   But linux-based dnsquery returns:1 |> e. |> %dnsquery digital.com  !!! exist but parked< |> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 61201G |> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2o. |> ;;      digital.com, type = ANY, class = INF |> digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com.F |> digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com.F |> digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com.F |> digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com.< |> NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com.  12h27m47s IN A  161.114.64.24< |> NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com.  12h27m47s IN A  161.114.1.204 |> i8 |> $ dnsquery -v fdslka.com  ###non-existent domain name, |> Query failed (h_errno = 1) : Unknown host |>    A nslookup can do the same thing if you use the right command line.l  % bash$ nslookup -query=any digital.comp Server:  server4.cs.uofs.edu Address:  134.198.169.56   Non-authoritative answer:c2 digital.com	nameserver = NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com2 digital.com	nameserver = NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com digital.comt 	origin = COMPAQ.com" 	mail addr = postmaster.COMPAQ.com 	serial = 2001091701 	refresh = 3600 (1H) 	retry   = 900 (15M) 	expire  = 604800 (1W) 	minimum ttl = 7200 (2H)  ( Authoritative answers can be found from:2 digital.com	nameserver = NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com2 digital.com	nameserver = NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com: NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com	internet address = 161.114.64.24: NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com	internet address = 161.114.1.204 bash$    bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:50:40 GMTA1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n Subject: Re: dnsqueryn' Message-ID: <3C0302FE.3AF1B1D2@fsi.net>r   Michael Austin wrote:h >  > OpenVMS 7.2-1  > TCPIP 5.0A > H > Has anyone ported the unix dnsquery tool to OpemVMS.  It allows one to4 > find out if a particular domain name is available.  C Well, even if NSLOOKUP is what you really want or meant, that won't H guarantee that a specific name is registered or not. WHOIS might be whatF you're after. I believe it comes with Multinet and TCPware. Can't sure4 for sure 'bout (the software formerly known as UCX).   -- d David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:47:07 +0100s2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: dnsqueryp; Message-ID: <3c02f09b.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   K [Jeopardy quoting corrected - sorry. guess I'm an old fart that can't adaptv  to the brave new MS world...]  . Michael Austin (miaustin@bellsouth.net) wrote: > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > > Michael Austin wrote:h > > >e > > > OpenVMS 7.2-1o > > > TCPIP 5.0A > > > L > > > Has anyone ported the unix dnsquery tool to OpemVMS.  It allows one to8 > > > find out if a particular domain name is available. > >V: > > UCX/TCP IP Services has nslookup, if that is any help. > > G > > $  @sys$startup:tcpip$define_commands  ! Use UCX not TCPIP if V4 ore	 > > below  > > $  nslookupn, > > Default Server:  server.name.removed.com > > Address:  a.b.c.di > >u > > > www.compaq.com$ > > Server:  server.name.removed.com > > Address:  a.b.c.dt > >l > > Name:    www.compaq.coms > > Address:  161.114.19.252 >aM > While this does work, it is not complete. If you have a domain name that is L > "parked" at it's registrar, it does not necessarily show up as being used. >l > case and point:f > $ nslookup digital.com > Server:  ns.bellsouth.neti > Address:  205.152.0.5tG > *** ns.bellsouth.net can't find digital.com: Non-existent host/domain  >e( > $nslookup digital.com dns1.infoave.net > Server:  dns1.InfoAve.Nett > Address:  165.166.0.2 G > *** dns1.InfoAve.Net can't find digital.com: Non-existent host/domaind > D > but it is still not available.   But linux-based dnsquery returns: > - > %dnsquery digital.com  !!! exist but parkedu; > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 61201tF > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2- > ;;      digital.com, type = ANY, class = INnE > digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com.iE > digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com. E > digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com.uE > digital.com.            18h36m14s IN NS  NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com.u; > NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com.  12h27m47s IN A  161.114.64.24 ; > NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com.  12h27m47s IN A  161.114.1.204e >o7 > $ dnsquery -v fdslka.com  ###non-existent domain namea+ > Query failed (h_errno = 1) : Unknown hosty  F Hmmm... my nslookup does have the same answers that your dnsquery has.? It queries the same sources using the same protocol, after all. 0 That said, I'm not sure why your nslookup fails.   $ tcpip show version  A   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 2h2   on a DEC 3000 Model 300 running OpenVMS V7.2-1H1   $ mcr tcpip$nslookup Default Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1-   > digital.com. Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1    Name:    digital.com   > set q=anym > digital.com. Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1.   Non-authoritative answer:- digital.com.         origin = compaq.comu)         mail addr = postmaster.compaq.coma         serial = 2001091701o         refresh = 3600 (1H)w         retry   = 900 (15M)t         expire  = 604800 (1W)l         minimum ttl = 7200 (2H)   ( Authoritative answers can be found from:' com     nameserver = A.GTLD-SERVERS.NETU' com     nameserver = G.GTLD-SERVERS.NETM ...t5 A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET      internet address = 192.5.6.30.7 G.GTLD-SERVERS.NET      internet address = 192.42.93.30G ...'   > set debugc > digital.com. Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1e  & ;; res_mkquery(0, digital.com, 1, 255) ------------ Got answer:i     HEADER:r3         opcode = QUERY, id = 24612, rcode = NOERRORnA         header flags:  response, want recursion, recursion avail. N         questions = 1,  answers = 1,  authority records = 13,  additional = 11       QUESTIONS:+         digital.com, type = ANY, class = INy     ANSWERS:     ->  digital.comx         ttl = 6383 (1h46m23s)          origin = compaq.com )         mail addr = postmaster.compaq.comi         serial = 2001091701g         refresh = 3600 (1H)/         retry   = 900 (15M)-         expire  = 604800 (1W)          minimum ttl = 7200 (2H)M     AUTHORITY RECORDS:     ->  comi'         nameserver = A.GTLD-SERVERS.NETp"         ttl = 172679 (1d23h57m59s) ...3   > set d2 > digital.com. Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1   & ;; res_mkquery(0, digital.com, 1, 255) ------------ SendRequest(), len 29t     HEADER:n3         opcode = QUERY, id = 24613, rcode = NOERRORl,         header flags:  query, want recursionL         questions = 1,  answers = 0,  authority records = 0,  additional = 0       QUESTIONS:+         digital.com, type = ANY, class = INc   ------------ Got answer (486 bytes):      HEADER:e3         opcode = QUERY, id = 24613, rcode = NOERROR A         header flags:  response, want recursion, recursion avail.eN         questions = 1,  answers = 1,  authority records = 13,  additional = 11       QUESTIONS:+         digital.com, type = ANY, class = IN      ANSWERS:     ->  digital.comh)         type = SOA, class = IN, dlen = 45a         ttl = 6055 (1h40m55s)          origin = compaq.coma ...i
 > set q=ns > digital.com. Server:  localhost Address:  127.0.0.1   $ ;; res_mkquery(0, digital.com, 1, 2) ------------ SendRequest(), len 29t     HEADER:r3         opcode = QUERY, id = 24614, rcode = NOERRORI,         header flags:  query, want recursionL         questions = 1,  answers = 0,  authority records = 0,  additional = 0       QUESTIONS:*         digital.com, type = NS, class = IN   ------------ Got answer (126 bytes):t     HEADER: 3         opcode = QUERY, id = 24614, rcode = NOERRORCA         header flags:  response, want recursion, recursion avail.-L         questions = 1,  answers = 2,  authority records = 0,  additional = 2       QUESTIONS:*         digital.com, type = NS, class = IN     ANSWERS:     ->  digital.com7(         type = NS, class = IN, dlen = 24.         nameserver = NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.com         ttl = 172800 (2D)      ->  digital.com (         type = NS, class = IN, dlen = 17.         nameserver = NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.com         ttl = 172800 (2D)u     ADDITIONAL RECORDS: !     ->  NS1-PUBLIC.ZMA.COMPAQ.comg&         type = A, class = IN, dlen = 4(         internet address = 161.114.64.24         ttl = 172800 (2D) !     ->  NS1-PUBLIC.ZTX.COMPAQ.comI&         type = A, class = IN, dlen = 4(         internet address = 161.114.1.204         ttl = 172800 (2D)N ...=     cu,[   Martin -- [G                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4  UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG  It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/T;  who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.deN   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:46:56 GMT>" From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>5 Subject: Re: DSSI VAXcluster manual on line anywhere?e9 Message-ID: <Xns91658206D14A8falkarcabca@205.233.108.180>f  4 Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote in& news:3C017FBD.C616B51A@starpower.net:    >> What do you want to know?1 > Mostly just looking for additional information.i > G > I had my 4000/100 open last week and noticed some jumpers on the DSSIl: > card.  I assume those set the ID of the DSSI controller.  / DSSI id is set by software - console command is      	>>>SET DSSI Try    >>>SET HELP for more information..  K Getting back to your original question.  The "DSSI VAXcluster Installation mI and Troubleshooting Manual" is fairly general and has little to tell you  K about specific hardware other than the KFQSA.  Indeed, my copy EK-410AA-MG-aL 001 (April 1992) does not mention VAX 4000/100's at all (for a good reason).:     	Chapter 1 DSSI VAxcluster Basics: Hardware & Software6     	Chapter 2 Configuration Rules and Recommendations     	Chapter 3 Installationn$     	Chapter 4 Troubleshooting Tips.1     	Appendix A: Electrical Lengths of Componentss%     	App B: Calculating Cable Lengths %     	App C: VMS Naming conventions...g2     	App D: Accessing a KFQSA without previous ...7     	App E: Sample Configurations with Cables Connectedd  K While I have referred to this manual occasionally, the processor manual is s generally more informative.f  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roadl1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadap http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4s  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:52:02 +0000l% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>e5 Subject: Re: DSSI VAXcluster manual on line anywhere?c' Message-ID: <3C029D62.659E7C30@iee.org>    Robert DiRosario wrote: I > I noticed the system board looked a lot like my 3100/90, so I opened my L > 3100/90 and found it has the Q-Bus connectors on it!  Did DEC use the sameA > system board for both system and just install different EPROMS?g  ) Not only are the system boards identical,- so are the EPROM contents :-)1  & There is a console command (one of the# TEST commands, but I forget exactlyS% which one) that flips it from KA50 to3 KA52 and back.  # There was (AFAIK) nothing to stop a # customer turning a MicroVAX 3100-90r' into a VAX 4000-100 ... as long as they ( did not mind the higher licensing costs % and could scrounge the right case form DSSI and Q-bus to work.l  " Same deal applies (again, IIRC) to the MicroVAX 3100-95/96/98 and% VAX 4000-105A/106A/108A respectively.n   Antonio      -- r   ---------------a- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:32:12 -0000l3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> $ Subject: Re: F$GETQUI wildcard bug??/ Message-ID: <9tucm0$q12$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>o  @ "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message) news:3C016141.2EBC8BF5@cableinet.co.uk...l [...]uI > so, as someone else suggested, use F$GETQUI with FREEZE_CONTEXT to grabl
 > the infoH > you need inside your loop rather than parsing the output of SHOW QUEUE > as > you are doing now.  / But I'm not parsing the output of SHOW QUEUE...t  L The purpose of the command procedure I was writing was to enable me to run aI single command (which could of course be another COM file) against queues-L that hold a given characteristic. The queue name is appended to the end as a
 parameter.   So you can do:( @WITH_CHAR LAT_PRINTER STOP /QUEUE /NEXT  = and it would append the queue name to the end of the command.u1 So, you see, for instance, being able to execute:s' @WITH_CHAR CRITICAL_PRINTERS SHOW QUEUEb  / is also useful (check if they're stalled, etc.)c  K You're not supposed to parse the output of commands, so I avoid it (this isnH documented somewhere, but I forget where...). At university there was anK application that depended on parsing the output of SHOW USERS to tell whereII people were in the building (actually, there were two, but that's anothert@ story ;). Parsing the output of SHOW USERS was a problem, mainlyJ because the TT_ACCPORNAM field could vary quite a lot, and you had to readL the termninal type as well, then look up a database of access port names and$ locations, and display the location.  H I remember doing some of the collection work (we went round, logged into> each one, and noted the terminal ACCPORNAM and other details).  I It was a very useful program, though. Made the computers _really_ useful,.8 and helped build communities. Now sadly demised. Sigh...   -Malcolm   >Q	 > regards- > -- > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  >.D > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of# > my employers or service provider.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:52:43 GMTs3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>b$ Subject: Re: F$GETQUI wildcard bug??/ Message-ID: <3C02D50A.DE0CA9DE@cableinet.co.uk>o   Malcolm wrote: > B > "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message+ > news:3C016141.2EBC8BF5@cableinet.co.uk...a > [...]rK > > so, as someone else suggested, use F$GETQUI with FREEZE_CONTEXT to grabe > > the infoJ > > you need inside your loop rather than parsing the output of SHOW QUEUE > > as > > you are doing now. > 1 > But I'm not parsing the output of SHOW QUEUE...    sorry, I misunderstood.         --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  u  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of m! my employers or service provider.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:15:50 -0500 0 From: Glenn and Mary Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>* Subject: Fall 2001 VMS SIG tapes announced' Message-ID: <3C02DB36.F26D72F0@gce.com>-  E The Fall 2001 VMS sigtapes have been generated and sent to the "usuallF suspects" for top level distributions. If I should send you one please< let me know. Normal tree coordinator contact is Dar Schumann (darnkatt@feist.com)	 as usual.o   Thanks to all who contributed.   Here are the contents: Fall 2001 VMS / L&T Sig Tapesa [VMSLT01B...] Directory Tree  8 [GCE]			Latest VDdriver for alpha. Fixes small omission. 			Also prog. to send packack.< [GNU]			New Gnu progs including gcc 3.0.2 compiler, gnumeric% 			spreadsheet, Gawk, several others.'1 [JED]			Editor that can work like EDT but on many 
 			platforms.g< [MOREAU]		DECwindows utils. Jasper: Jpeg 2000. Xephem: shows1 			sky at any time. Xanim: animations. MPG123 and  			XWpick also. 7 [NET]			Misc. interesting things from the net includinga5 			gnupg, Bochs (pc emulator), calc, divx movie play,%- 			openssh, vmscd - read VMS CDs on other OS,;5 			MySQL DBMS, Wine (pc emul.), xlockmore, much more.1, [NT]			NT internals advice and a few examles? [OPENOFFICE]		Sources to latest OpenOffice build. Not ported to $ 			VMS but very useful office suite.8 [PERL]			PERL (string language with loads of features to3 			do what awk, grep, and many other unix tools do).! 			for many systems including VMSh8 [SAMBA]			Program to let non windows systems serve print4 			and disk shares to each other and windows, and to7 			let them access windows shares. Latest common dist.,66 			no special VMS port. (VMS vers. was on 01A sigtape)8 [SEC]			Security advice, many problems and exploit codes0 			(beware on non-VMS systems!) and a few tools.; [TK]			adv_runusr  run/user command callable-ping  callables0 			PING for VMS dsnlink_new - connect to dsnlink4 			files_info - show all processes reading/writing a4 			given file ftp_mirror - mirror an ftp site jump -7 			become someone else withut disturbing their password.6 			mmk- "make" or "mmg" clone for VMS. Builds programs7 			using dependence info to do minimal recompile/relinkm2 			work ods2 - read ods2 disks on windows. Look on2 			www.adaptec.com site for the .dll needed, which1 			cannot be distribued here. (It is free.) omi -f1 			Oscar's Menu Interface. DCL menu system in DCLQ3 			persona - asume persona of another user remind -c4 			simple reminder utility tail - view end of a file7 			vmstar - read/write TAR format files/tapes. Supports12 			ods-5.  watcher-compile-fix - fix for compiling 			WATCHER utility: [VU]			Large collection of things that are claimed to work5 			under VMS. Includes: a2h - Ascii to HTML converterr2 			analog - catalogs browser types visiting a site0 			autoswish - automatic index creator for swish4 			database cdrecord - burn CDs in VMS. CDWrite15 is8 			another prog. to do this.  CETS* - various talks from8 			CETS made available by their authors DFU - swiss army7 			knife file utility for VMS Emacs - Gnu Emacs for VMS 4 			expat - XML parser that supposedly is easy to get5 			working in VMS Fish - SSH for VMS, one part free -a7 			shows free space Frontport - porting library to makeK6 			porting progs to VMS from Unix easier Ghostscript -3 			Postscript interpreter for VMS grant_revoke_id -m2 			grant or revoke identifiers hpscan - control HP3 			scanners HTDIG - index or search a finite set of 7 			websites Imagemagick - edit images or transform themr7 			IRCD - internet relay chat daemon for VMS LATD - LATl8 			daemon. Not really VMS code but shows the protocol...8 			LDAP - VMS LDAP implementation (lightweight directory5 			access protocol) Mozilla - Decent if slow browser,e8 			free followon to netscape, for Alpha VMS MPack - MIME6 			mail encoder for VMS MPEG3PLAY - play .MP3 files on5 			VMS MKISOFS - build ISO9660 filesystems on VMS (tot5 			burn to CD) NBS - set sys time to NBS atopic clockh6 			time NBL - foreign mail transport for VMS Nethack -0 			network war game ocr - an OCR program for VMS5 			(character recognizer) odbc - ODBC-ODBC bridge for 6 			VMS ods-2 - Utilities to read VMS ODS-2 disk format6 			on other OSs.  OPENSSL - SSL for many systems. Also7 			lets you create your own certificates etc. or become 6 			a certificate authority.  output_logger - Take many0 			small log files, keep theminstead in a larger3 			combined one as they are written.  pacman - game.4 			perf_meter - system performance meter, continuous7 			running graph persona - become someone else python - 5 			sort of a compiled perl, Compiled string language. 6 			rwmbx - utils to read/write mailbox (handy from cmd3 			line) Ruleworks - AI language for VMS, compiled.i6 			Compilers here. A step beyond OPS5.  Swish-e - tool5 			for indexing files (text or html, xml,etc.) SLRN -s5 			news reader for net news syslogd - A syslog daemonr6 			for VMS. Log your unix errors to a VMS system where4 			they won't be easily hacked.  simtools - Tools to/ 			simulate pdp8,pdp9, pdp10, pdp11 etc. on VMSo5 			socketshr - Decnet socket programming ssh - SecureN3 			shell for VMS, other part TCL and TK - scripting 1 			language and toolkit, most recent VMS versionss6 			available.  TEX97 - Full TeX text processing system6 			for VMS UE400 - uEmacs microemacs Emacs like editor5 			for VMS. Much smaller than full emacs.  unitools - 6 			unix like command line tools for VMS unzip - recent4 			unzip version Vim - Vi editor replacement for VMS8 			Virtcfb - virtual X color frame buffer. With the also3 			present virtual X server these let you collect XP6 			events, run virtual screens but is mainly useful as2 			enabling technology for further work (e.g.  VNC8 			server for VMS) vmsbackup - read VMS Backup format on4 			unix xscreensaver - X screensaver with MANY nifty4 			video display hacks that can also run separately.8 			XICQ - ICQ for VMS (net chat) XMCD - full featured CD8 			player for VMS zlib - compression library and a great
 			deal more.u9 [WWW]			WASD HTTP server for VMS and plugins. A very faste 			web server.       Glenn C. Everharto Everhart@gce.com tapecopy coordinator   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:50:27 +0900i# From: "david" <fotoram@noblian.com>  Subject: Have a nice day !4 Message-ID: <1321363-220011122755027620@noblian.com>  ) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8./ Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-kr"s   Have a nice day !e    ) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8.. Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-kr"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    <html> <head>K <title>::::: Your Weekly Fortune is Here=2E ::::: 12ji=2Ecom :::::</title>=o  K <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Deuc-kr">=    <style type=3D"text/css">  <!--K td {  font-size:8pt; color: #666666; font-family: "Verdana"; line-height: =A 10pt;}K a  {  font-size: 8pt; color: #666666; text-decoration:none; font-family: "=T	 Verdana"}n6 a:hover {  color: #ffcc00; text-decoration:underline;}K =2E=2Etd {  font-size:10pt; color: #333333; font-family:"Verdana"; line-he=c ight: 10pt;}K =2E=2Eaa {  font-family: "arial"; font-size: 8pt; color: #666666; font-wei=n ght: bold; line-height: 12pt}pK =2E=2Ebb {  font-family: "arial"; font-size: 9pt; color: #336699; font-wei=w ght: bold; line-height: 12pt} K =2E=2Einput {  BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffffff;  font-size:9pt; COLOR:#666666; BO=  RDER:1x SOLID #001452; }K =2E=2Eoutline {  BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffffff;  font-size:9pt; COLOR:#666666; =  BORDER:1x SOLID #000000; }K =2E=2Ecopyright {  font-size:7pt; color: #6699CC; font-family:"Verdana"; l=  ine-height: 8pt;}0 -->0 </style> </head>   K <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000" leftmargin=3D"0" topmargin=3D"0= ' " marginwidth=3D"0" marginheight=3D"0">T <br>K <table width=3D"600" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" heig=7K ht=3D"365" background=3D"http://12ji=2Ecom/fortune/images/bg02=2Egif" clas=r s=3D"outline" align=3D"center">y   <tr>     <td valign=3D"top">=20K       <table width=3D"600" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0=  " height=3D"365">          <tr>=20sK           <td width=3D"200" height=3D"78"><a href=3D"http://www=2E12ji=2Ec=oL om"><img src=3D"http://12ji=2Ecom/fortune/images/logo_top02=2Egif" width=3D=* "200" height=3D"78" border=3D"0"></a></td>K           <td width=3D"400" height=3D"78" valign=3D"top"><img src=3D"http:= K //12ji=2Ecom/fortune/images/pic_top=2Egif" width=3D"120" height=3D"78"></t=u d>
         </tr>r         <tr>=20 K           <td height=3D"238" width=3D"200"><img src=3D"http://12ji=2Ecom/f= = ortune/images/pic02=2Egif" width=3D"200" height=3D"238"></td>yK           <td height=3D"238" align=3D"center" valign=3D"top" width=3D"400"=gC  background=3D"http://12ji=2Ecom/fortune/images/bg_pic01=2Egif">=20t$             <p align=3D"center"><br>               <br>M               <img src=3D"http://12ji=2Ecom/fortune/images/h=2Egif" width=3D=Y "362" height=3D"26"></p>             <br>K             <table width=3D"250" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpaddin=r g=3D"0">               <tr>=20                  <td>=20 K                   <p class=3D"td" > <img src=3D"http://12ji=2Ecom/fortune/= 1 images/dot02=2Egif" width=3D"12" height=3D"6">=20c4                     FREE Weekly Fortune Delivery<br>                     <br>K                     <img src=3D"http://12ji=2Ecom/fortune/images/dot02=2Eg==! if" width=3D"12" height=3D"6">=20a7                     NEW Oriental Philosophy Service<br>a                     <br>K                     <img src=3D"http://12ji=2Ecom/fortune/images/dot02=2Eg= ! if" width=3D"12" height=3D"6">=20a6                     SIMPLE &amp; EASY Registration</p>                 </td>I               </tr>              </table>             <br>             <br>K             <table width=3D"350" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpaddin=n g=3D"0">               <tr>=20 K                 <td height=3D"27">To learn more about 12ji, please visit <=AG a href=3D"http://www=2E12ji=2Ecom" target=3D"_blank">12ji=2Ecom</a><br> K                   <a href=3D"http://www=2E12ji=2Ecom">12ji=2Ecom</a> Manag=  ement Team<br>K                   Email: <a href=3D"mailto:fortune@12ji=2Ecom">fortune@12j=t i=2Ecom</a></td>               </tr>h             </table>           </td>T
         </tr>n         <tr>=20m'           <td width=3D"200">&nbsp;</td>-1           <td width=3D"400" valign=3D"middle">=2069             <div align=3D"center" class=3D"copyright">=20DK               <p><font color=3D"#5280A5">Click <a href=3D"http://www=2E12j=cK i=2Ecom/remove=2Ehtm" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#5280A5">here</font=n ></a>=20M                 if you prefer not to receive future email from 12ji=2Ecom=2E=o <br>K                 Copyright &copy;2001 <a href=3D"http://www=2Einterwiz=2Eco=cK =2Ekr" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#5280A5">Interwiz</font></a>=2E=20=c  *                 All rights reserved=2E<br>                 <br>                 </font></p>E             </div>           </td> 
         </tr>i       </table>	     </td>V   </tr>  </table> </body>  </html>o  + ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--t   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Nov 2001 19:58:52 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)e Subject: HP Humor0' Message-ID: <9tu6ts$i3r$1@joe.rice.edu>  Keywords: humor,eol,hp_3000s     http://www.mind-set.com       then click on Carly's picture.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:22:09 -0500g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>C Subject: Re: HP Humor , Message-ID: <3C02DCAF.AD0118B4@videotron.ca>   Jerry Leslie wrote:  >  >   http://www.mind-set.comu > " >   then click on Carly's picture.  5 I liked the 120% staff reduction by year end !!!! :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:21:19 GMTf  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: HP Humor-+ Message-ID: <3C030695.BD1E74BE@prodigy.net>   J Maybe they could pick up another 20% from customers using products they'veF discontinued, making support folks employed by the customers obsolete.   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Jerry Leslie wrote:, > >d > >   http://www.mind-set.com  > > $ > >   then click on Carly's picture. > 7 > I liked the 120% staff reduction by year end !!!! :-)0   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 16:51:44 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Re: Internet Server Softwareo< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111261651.53b894f@posting.google.com>  ^ "Rodolfo Segleau" <segleaur@wwc.com> wrote in message news:<web-1505235@mx1.relaypoint.net>...< > I've got the AlphaServer 800 up and running with *most* of= > the software I need for my project. It's running MultiNet'sc7 > IMAP server which is working fine, but one last vitale: > software piece is missing. I am looking for either a low= > cost (read: almost free) webmail software front-end for the ; > IMAP process. I'll probably only have 10 or so mailboxes,1= > maybe no more than 10K of messages per month (I am countingt= > not  the 5K that I have recieved from this list in the lasto  > month alone). Any suggestions? >  > 
 > Cheers,  > 	 > Rodolfoh  G try outlook express ... it's free!  We use it with tcpware imap4 on ouro alphaserver and it works great!a   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:02:11 +0000 (UTC)- From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk% Subject: Re: Internet Server Softwarev+ Message-ID: <9tuomj$bv6$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>U  Y In article <web-1505235@mx1.relaypoint.net>, "Rodolfo Segleau" <segleaur@wwc.com> writes:e >l; >I've got the AlphaServer 800 up and running with *most* ofc< >the software I need for my project. It's running MultiNet's6 >IMAP server which is working fine, but one last vital9 >software piece is missing. I am looking for either a low < >cost (read: almost free) webmail software front-end for the: >IMAP process. I'll probably only have 10 or so mailboxes,< >maybe no more than 10K of messages per month (I am counting< >not  the 5K that I have recieved from this list in the last >month alone). Any suggestions?c >h >u	 >Cheers,   >e >Rodolfo  K Does the webmail interface have to use the IMAP server or would full accessE: to the VMS mailboxes independently of the IMAP server do ?  H If the answer to the above is yes then look at the public domain YAHMAIL= product written by Mark Daniel author of the WASD web server.s  N This provides public (archive) and private (authenticated) access to VMS Mail.L Provides full access to all mail folders and works with most (if not all) of the VMS based webservers.d    ; Yahmail can be obtained from  http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/ e  K I can thoroughly recommend it. We use it to provide web based access to our N student mail - some 25000+ accounts (alongside POP, IMAP and local mail client	 access). d  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:55:28 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t Subject: Re: Invitation...' Message-ID: <3C03041E.8617EED8@fsi.net>l   fitline wrote: > ) > If you want to live better. Go there!!!h > http://www.336.fitline.com >  > This is no spamd > ) > You are receiving this message because:  > $ > You posted a link on our FFA page.  C I'm sure I'm not the only one here wondering how that's possible...    -- a David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:42:49 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>0 Subject: Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me?A Message-ID: <IzzM7.65944$uB.10909409@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>0  : "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message1 news:9165876F3warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97... - > billtodd@metrocast.net (Bill Todd) wrote inr1 > <UKCK7.2373$YD.176317@news2.aus1.giganews.com>:  >  > > ; > >Warren Spencer <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message 4 > >news:915F8EEE2warrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97...: > >> rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote inF > >> <rdeininger-2011011156020001@user-2iveans.dialup.mindspring.com>: > >v > >... > >-I > >> >You guys (and anyone else facing similar difficulties) need to tell  > >>I > >> I appreciate the advice, and the sentiment Robert, however I have nouF > >> such need.  Instead I believe it is Compaq that *needs* to eitherJ > >> communicate clearly (stop fibbing) and poll their customers for their > >> requirements. > >sI > >Ah - you mean like they polled their customers about the Alphacide andu4 > >found the response to be 'unbelievably positive'? >h5 > Poll the right people, you get the "right" answers.  >&C > >I guess most of the people here weren't included in that poll...  > >l	 > >- bills >l@ > Not me, and I'm boldly assuming not you; clearly an oversight.  E Well, I did my bit to help them out by joining with a group of otherseI interested in VMS's (and Compaq's) future and providing detailed input 18MJ months ago *without* having been asked.  But they clearly weren't any moreH interested in that than they were in finding out what others might think more recently.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:51:13 -0500s( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: Is it a DEC C problem, or is it me?* Message-ID: <3C02FFA1.50104@tsoft-inc.com>   Warren Spencer wrote:e  - > billtodd@metrocast.net (Bill Todd) wrote inV  H >>Ah - you mean like they polled their customers about the Alphacide and3 >>found the response to be 'unbelievably positive'?u >>5 > Poll the right people, you get the "right" answers.	 > B >>I guess most of the people here weren't included in that poll... >> >>- bill >> > @ > Not me, and I'm boldly assuming not you; clearly an oversight.   Limit the answers, like:   1) move to IA-64 2) no VMS at all  B Maybe the majority choose #1.  I wouldn't call that 'unbelievably " positive', I'd call that survival.   Dave, another of the un-polled.b   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:26:11 +0100 + From: Jimmi Aakjaer <aakjaer@post7.tele.dk> ! Subject: Re: JAVA 1.3 Slow launchL8 Message-ID: <l7c50ug6bur9a8l8mdmhm1faqtmg0hb54p@4ax.com>  F On 26 Nov 2001 08:00:58 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  g >In article <n8kpvt0m63jmbvienro4igbacem1rrmcph@4ax.com>, Jimmi Aakjaer <aakjaer@post7.tele.dk> writes:iI >> On 21 Nov 2001 12:47:05 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o	 >> wrote:s >> wF >> When i look in mon system - it is generating  pagefaults > 1000 and- >> io's about 100 and using about 10% of cpu.  >uF >   Hard or soft faults?  (Hard faults are to the left of the verticalC >   bar).  Perhaps your working sets are way too low.  We're using r> >   WSDEF 2000, WSQUO 65535, and WSEXTENT 524288 on 320MB RAM.  E It is hard pagefaults and when i look in sh proc/cont/all - the stateaD goes from MWAIT -> HIB -> PFW and in mon cluster the memory bar goes from 64% to 100%  C I i have tried you quotas without any luck - so i think i need somew# extra memory for my alphaserver 800   
 /jimmi :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 13:16:02 -0800& From: slusystest@altavista.com (MikeJ)# Subject: Logging off inactive users < Message-ID: <14bfac6b.0111261316.d40ecd3@posting.google.com>   Hello,  D Due to license limitations, I would like to have a routine that logsC off the useer with the longest idle time when we are at or near our ? limit.  Alternatively, I could log off any idle user after someoC predetermined amount of time.  Either way, I am looking for help inrD determining process idle time.  Any pre-existing utilities or help? > We have one system running v7.1 (VAX) and one system on v7.2-1 (Alpha).  Thanks in advance.   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:25:33 -0500N* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>' Subject: RE: Logging off inactive usersN- Message-ID: <0033000042711415000002L052*@MHS>r   =0AHITMAN is commercial.    WATCHER, I believe, is freeware.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETS' Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 4:22 PMaB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET# Subject: Logging off inactive usersl     Hello,  D Due to license limitations, I would like to have a routine that logsC off the useer with the longest idle time when we are at or near ourr? limit.  Alternatively, I could log off any idle user after someaC predetermined amount of time.  Either way, I am looking for help inwC determining process idle time.  Any pre-existing utilities or help?S> We have one system running v7.1 (VAX) and one system on v7.2-1 (Alpha).  Thanks in advance.   -Mike=   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:33:10 GMTo' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> ' Subject: Re: Logging off inactive users ) Message-ID: <3C02B516.65B26F25@UIowa.EDU>d   MikeJ wrote: >  > Hello, > F > Due to license limitations, I would like to have a routine that logsE > off the useer with the longest idle time when we are at or near oureA > limit.  Alternatively, I could log off any idle user after some E > predetermined amount of time.  Either way, I am looking for help inVE > determining process idle time.  Any pre-existing utilities or help?n@ > We have one system running v7.1 (VAX) and one system on v7.2-1 > (Alpha).  Thanks in advance.  J Check out Hunter Goatley's OpenVMS Resources Web site for such a utility. + It is also usually on the FreeWare CDs too.s   Look for Watcher  * 	http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html   rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:58:06 +0100 = From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>h' Subject: Re: Logging off inactive usersC) Message-ID: <3C02BAEE.71E89D6E@dummy.com>u   I can recommend "WATCHER".8 It's a freeware written by Matthew D. Madison and it can be downloaded from :< http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?WATCHER  8 It has an NCP-like user interface with A LOT of knobs to= adjust. To many to give any examples here. It's complete with01 log files so you can see who was forced out when.H  % You can easily create rules such as :0  8 - Log out SYSTEM after 3 min *if not* logged on to OPA0:2 - Log out anyone after 5 min *if* it's "at night".> - Log out the user after x min *if not* having identifier XYZ.: - Log out the user after x min *if not* running image ABC.  < The default is "warning after 25 min and logout after 30 min if using zero CPU time".  = I'v had it running for years, doing it's job, with no problemt	 at all...v  ( Give it a try, I'm sure you'll like it !  ? It's written in BLISS, but there is pre-compiled OBJ's to link.z   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    MikeJ wrote: >  > Hello, > F > Due to license limitations, I would like to have a routine that logsE > off the useer with the longest idle time when we are at or near ouriA > limit.  Alternatively, I could log off any idle user after somemE > predetermined amount of time.  Either way, I am looking for help in"E > determining process idle time.  Any pre-existing utilities or help?2@ > We have one system running v7.1 (VAX) and one system on v7.2-1 > (Alpha).  Thanks in advance. >  > -Miket   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:19:34 -0000 3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>G' Subject: Re: Logging off inactive usersR/ Message-ID: <9tufg6$l0q$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>o  3 "MikeJ" <slusystest@altavista.com> wrote in messageV6 news:14bfac6b.0111261316.d40ecd3@posting.google.com... > Hello, >gF > Due to license limitations, I would like to have a routine that logsE > off the useer with the longest idle time when we are at or near oureA > limit.  Alternatively, I could log off any idle user after somegE > predetermined amount of time.  Either way, I am looking for help iniE > determining process idle time.  Any pre-existing utilities or help?e@ > We have one system running v7.1 (VAX) and one system on v7.2-1 > (Alpha).  Thanks in advance. >s9 There is a nice program called HITMAN, from Saiga Systems:5 (http://www.saiga.com). Evaluation versions availableo  I We use it and it works quite well. You can exclude users, exclude certainaK time ranges, exclude certain images from logout, send no idle time warning,hK or two idle time warnings (warnings configurable on a per-user basis, as is"6 almost anything else), exclude certain terminals, etc.  L I think there are freeware VAX programs available if you just want something( simple, but I'm not so sure about Alpha.   Hope that helps, -Malcolm   > -Mikei   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:30:15 +0000c" From: nic <no@spam.spam.eggs.spam> Subject: Re: Mounting a disk2 Message-ID: <3C02D087.9A9F6EB@spam.spam.eggs.spam>   David McKenzie wrote:o > 
 > Rather thanf >  > $ MOUNT/SYSTEM disk: volume/ >  > it should be > + > $ MOUNT/SYSTEM disk: volume logical name.e > I > And thereafter only use the logical. This just makes management so much @ > easier, and is easy to if you start out doing it fron day one.  6 The logical is defined by default as DISK$volume-label  D It can be replaced by the mount command using logical-name (I assume% that was what you intended) no space.   E I also typically use /NOASSIST in any system startup to avoid hangingDD the start up if devices are not available, but site requirements may vary of course.  Regards,   -- > nic at play % nic at python dot demon dot co dot uko   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Nov 2001 19:05:40 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)  Subject: Re: newsreaders... . Message-ID: <yFeQWg8feVsX@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  N In article <3C01DA46.315BC3FC@yahoo.com>, Rotten178 <bdjr76@yahoo.com> writes:F > Grr... I'm looking for a good newsreader for OpenVMS. Anyone got any1 > suggestions or somewhere to even start looking.r > E > I did a search on Google but all the links I visited were all dead.  >  > --       From the VMS FAQ:E  C SOFT1.    Where can I find freeware/shareware/software for OpenVMS?m  N While I did not see any newsreaders explicitly listed, there were many generalI freeware sites.  I am sure that newsreaders can be found at some of them.   9   The OpenVMS FAQ is archived in the following locations:   "     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/.     ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/comp.os.vms/,     comp.answers and news.answers newsgroups  A   Other internet FAQs are generally available in these locations:h  ,     comp.answers and news.answers newsgroups%     ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/...f  ?   User-created HTML versions of the OpenVMS FAQ are located at:        http://www.kjsl.com/vmsfaq'     http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htmc           I personally use ANU News:  E Q: How do I acquire a copy of ANU News?  A: ANU News is available forsH    anonymous FTP from kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Kansas, USA).  Other sites may    also have it available..       5 > SCHIZAM and it happens, not with a bang but with a >
 > whisper.  K If you are referring to the magic word that turns Billy Batson into Captain-I Marvel and his sister into Mary Marvel, that is "Shazam", the name of theeO wizard or whatever who gave them their powers.  Gomer Pyle was also fond of therH word (along with Ma and Pa Kettle and Godziller (sic)), but prefixed his0 invokations with "Golllllleeee, Sergeant!".  :-)   Wayneo --  O ===============================================================================:M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxo: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================jH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy.". Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Nov 2001 19:17:30 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)z Subject: Re: newsreaders...e. Message-ID: <feW8evOHjBlC@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  L In article <9ttgen$sg0$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:b > In article <onb40u0lp9aeohk98p6knp2i0dkenbh6qc@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:G >>On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:00:11 GMT, Rotten178 <bdjr76@yahoo.com> wrote:r >> >>>gG >>>Grr... I'm looking for a good newsreader for OpenVMS. Anyone got anyu2 >>>suggestions or somewhere to even start looking. >>E >>There are a couple. ANU News is the most common. I believe it is oni2 >>the Alpha freeware CD and can be downloaded from >>www.openvms.compaq.com > A > I thought ANU NEWS was the Usenet News server not a newsreader.e >   L ANU is both a server and a reader.  I don't read news directly from my ISP'sK server.  Instead I transfer articles to my own ANU server, then use the ANUi reader to read it locally.   -- oO ===============================================================================sM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)-O ===============================================================================hH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy.". Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:32:12 GMTl) From: martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt)i! Subject: Re: NTP under TCPIP V5.1 8 Message-ID: <3c02ecbb.107928362@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>  E On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:23:23 GMT, martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt)  wrote:  E >I have recently upgraded a VAX from TCPIP services V4.2 to V5.1 (ECOd< >3). NTP was working fine before, but now is having problems" >synchronising with an NTP server.  F I have now logged a call with Compaq, and have sent heaps of output toA them, but we haven't got very far yet. Any further ideas would bee appreciated.   ---  Martin Huntb Systems Administratoru Independent Newspapers Limited
 Wellington New Zealandb   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:02:41 GMTi1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>c8 Subject: Re: Obtaining System Serial Number via Software2 Message-ID: <3C02AE2D.5AECE7A7@clarityconnect.com>  E In short, no there isn't a way to see this unless it is provided by adC combination of console code and cpu firmware.  Most all Alpha's cpumF modules have the ability to store a serial number in them but there isC nothing to prevent a knowledgeable person from changing this serialdD number.  As for VAXen the real old system had it wire wrapped on theH backplane and newer ones are just like Alpha.  Some systems have nothingF but a label stuck on a module.  From the factory the systems do have aE serial number listed on some BOM but if that gets lost along with thecH labels placed on system cabinets and system modules then you end up with a system w/o a serial number.v   Rick Dyson wrote:h > O > Is there an OpenVMS command that can tell me the "system serial number" for amD > VAX or Alpha that does not have multiple CPUs?  I am familiar with >         Show CPU/FulleM > but that only applies to SMP boxes.  Of course, I also would love for it too1 > have been available with VAX/VMS v5.3-1 too. :)p > J > What happens when the box you have your system boards in no longer has aO > serial number tag?  Is there any way to determine the processor serial numbers; > without pulling the board and looking for a number on it?s >  > Any suggestions? > 	 > Thanks!n > Rick   -- sD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 22:01:50 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)78 Subject: Re: Obtaining System Serial Number via Software= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0111262201.4f76db90@posting.google.com>v  X Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> wrote in message news:<3C0285A6.6E2CA5C5@UIowa.EDU>...O > Is there an OpenVMS command that can tell me the "system serial number" for atD > VAX or Alpha that does not have multiple CPUs?  I am familiar with  + I don't think it is set on newer systems...i   $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM$ SDA> READ SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:SYSDEF$ SDA> FORMAT/TYPE=HWRPB @BOO$GA_HWRPB .o .e .l< FFFFFFFF.85622040   HWRPB$B_SYS_SERIALNUM                 00: FFFFFFFF.85622041                                   000000< FFFFFFFF.85622044                                   00000000< FFFFFFFF.85622048                                   00000000< FFFFFFFF.8562204C                                   00000000  0 This isn't for this years CSLG by any chance :-)= We were also asked for serial numbers. Serial number from theM> board that actually contains the CPU might be your best bet if= no labels exist on the outside of the box. This seems strangen; unless you built yourself a system using a bare motherboard  (ie: PC164), etc.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:37:44 GMT21 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eI Subject: Re: Of Bogusity and Benchmarketeering (was Re: Life After Alpha)-' Message-ID: <3C02FFF5.78F3FEF3@fsi.net>r   David Mathog wrote:  >  > Bill Todd wrote: > >TH > > David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@computershare.co.uk> wrote in message@ > > news:1006369550.21668.0.nnrp-12.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk...= > > > But isn't it Madison we are supposed to be waiting for?	 > >  > I > The first itanium which will appear in functioning systems is codenamedl
 > "Godot".  D Really? I thought it was "Armoradillo"... (fans of The Dick Van Dyke Show will understand, maybe)   -- 4 David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 16:57:13 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: OpenVMS book in bookstores,= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0111261657.299e6ef2@posting.google.com>7  j bes@pbsbank.ch (Bernard Straehl) wrote in message news:<76f61726.0111260859.2cb782f@posting.google.com>... > Hi r > > > I'm looking for books on OpenVMS. There is one that might beE > interesting: "Sethi J: Open VMS Performance Management" that should H > have been published in 2000. But it wasn't, but why? Does any one have > an explanation? D > Just the one published 1995 is still available but this one treatsG > just till VMS 7.1 and we have in our company OpenVMS 7.3 running. CansH > anyone give me a hint on newer books treating this version of OpenVMS? >  > thanks  M Coburns OpenVMS System Management book is good also, and even though it only  H covers thru vms 7.1, most of these techniques should be also relevant onG 7.3 ... unless if the rms lock changes have a drastic effect on tuning EI parameters ... we run 7.1 and don't plan to go to 7.3 until all the kinksuM are worked out ... we found out with apache that when you live on the cutting  edge, you sometimes get cut ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:54:57 GMT-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s" Subject: OT Re: AMAZON RAIN FOREST' Message-ID: <3C0303FF.A3539D85@fsi.net>0  $ fabio_compaq@petrobras.com.br wrote: > > > This is one of the reasons why the world hate "americans"... > * > In special Patrick Hughes from DIA ..... > ( > (See attached file: international.jpg)  > Please don't send binary attachments to a text-only newsgroup.  E What exactly was the point supposed to be? Is this some evidence thatl< the US is behind the cutting and burning of the rainforests?   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/X   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 14:03:45 -0800' From: mleile@gmx.de (Manfred Friedrich)o Subject: PATHWORKS Licensing= Message-ID: <35543d21.0111261403.20d5c336@posting.google.com>i   Hello,  = a have a question about PATHWORKS licensing  which could also0 be a question for a FAQ:  7 Do I need a license for a NT workstation if I only want : to do DECNET task-to-task communication to our VMS server?4 I don't need access to file, disk od print services.   Thanks for your answer.f   Manfreda   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:23:39 GMTu) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>a  Subject: Re: PATHWORKS Licensing& Message-ID: <3C032A06.2050207@qsl.net>   Manfred Friedrich wrote:   > Hello, > ? > a have a question about PATHWORKS licensing  which could also  > be a question for a FAQ: > 9 > Do I need a license for a NT workstation if I only wanti< > to do DECNET task-to-task communication to our VMS server?6 > I don't need access to file, disk od print services.    A You need a license for what ever software is providing the DECNET:- task to task interface on the NT workstation.E  6 The license from Compaq is in the Pathworks32 license.) You do not need a file and print license.r  . See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/pathworks32/  B Of course you will also need to have a DECNET or equivalent NAS-*  license on the OpenVMS Server.   -John    wb8tyw@qsl.net   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 11:20:20 -0800% From: rosj01@hotmail.com (James Ross)k& Subject: Point at the end of Logicals?= Message-ID: <9026b6ac.0111261120.4f36528c@posting.google.com>   + Some logicals have a point at the end like 2, "SYS$COMMON" = "NODE:DISK:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.]"  ? And when I try to change directory to this SYS$COMMON by typing  set def SYS$COMMON4 nothing hapen. The default dir is still the old one.   What the point at the end meen?l     Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:36:17 +0100r= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>u* Subject: Re: Point at the end of Logicals?) Message-ID: <3C0299B1.B4B2D0E5@dummy.com>    This is an "routed logical".9 It must be used just as any other "device" on the system,lB and to most part of VMS, it looks just as any other device (disk).
 Most handy !!s  	 Example :u  ) DEF/TRANS=(CONC) my_disk dka100:[my_dir.]    set def my_disk:[000000]   or.  ) set def my_disk:[some directory i my_dir]e  : If you use this logicals as-is in the SET DEF command, you= are only changing your default *device* ! The current defaultA< *directory* is not changes. In 99% of the cases, this is not what you wanted...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e     James Ross wrote:  > , > Some logicals have a point at the end like. > "SYS$COMMON" = "NODE:DISK:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.]" > A > And when I try to change directory to this SYS$COMMON by typings > set def SYS$COMMON6 > nothing hapen. The default dir is still the old one. > ! > What the point at the end meen?b >  > Thanks   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 14:34:16 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org* Subject: Re: Point at the end of Logicals?3 Message-ID: <kV6Ax3Xca7MM@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  e In article <9026b6ac.0111261120.4f36528c@posting.google.com>, rosj01@hotmail.com (James Ross) writes:t- > Some logicals have a point at the end like n. > "SYS$COMMON" = "NODE:DISK:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.]" > A > And when I try to change directory to this SYS$COMMON by typing. > set def SYS$COMMON6 > nothing hapen. The default dir is still the old one. > ! > What the point at the end meen?a  G There's a fair bit of history, backwards compatibility, cross-componente> cooperation and just plain strangeness in this area.  (I don'tB intend that pejoratively -- it's tough trying to please everyone).  @ The short answer is that logical names such as the one you point= out is a "rooted logical name".  It is meant to be treated as C a virtual device name but operates by referencing a directory name.n  . So you ask for SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] and you get% SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]i    F Now, under VMS the notion of "current working directory" is maintainedG in two separate places.  One piece is set with the SYS$SETDDIR service.i@ That is the _directory_ that you default into.  Another piece isD the SYS$DISK logical name.  That's the _disk_ that you default into.  F When you do a $ SET DEFAULT [SYSEXE], what is affected is your defaultG directory (SYS$SETDDIR).  When you do a $ SET DEFAULT SYS$COMMON:, whatuA is affected is your default disk (SYS$DISK logical name).  And ifm< you do $ SET DEFAULT SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE], both are affected.  $ 			default device		default directory   Initial			USER_DISK:		[USER1]e) $ SET DEF SYS$COMMON	SYS$COMMON:		[USER1]n( $ SET DEF [SYSEXE]	SYS$COMMON:		[SYSEXE]' $ SET DEF SYS$LOGIN	USER_DISK:		[USER1] ' $ SET DEF [SYSEXE]	USER_DISK:		[SYSEXE]   F Once upon a time, life was simple.  Disks were disks, directories were/ directories and this scheme worked pretty well.m  @ But then around the VMS 3.x timeframe (corrections welcome), VMSC introduced the notion of rooted logical names.  Now you could have,r
 for instance:      $ DEFINE APPS _DRA1:[APPS.]    $ SET DEFAULT APPS:[FOCUS]  H It's been a long time, but if I recall correctly, the leading underscoreG had significance.  One leading underscore was a "terminal" logical namerE and two were "concealed".  Or some such.  That capability persists toS this day unless I'm mistaken.l  H And so now your directory information could come from two sources -- the= default directory string.  And the default disk logical name.t  F But then in VMS 4.x the entire logical name system was re-implemented.H We got multiple translations for a single logical name.  And translationH attributes.  And name attributes.  And access modes.  Which was criticalH in order to allow for clusters with shared system disks.  And it cleaned& up some long standing security issues.  E Sometime in VMS 5.x or 6.x the syntax was loosened so that you didn'tcI have to couch a file spec such as SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]rI in terms of a rooted logical.  You could use the whole file specificationsF just that way.  (I suspect that RMS was basically told to root out the" ".][" string as a semantic no-op).     To conjure up a nasty case:t  ?   $ DEFINE DEFDISK DISK1:, DISK2:[ANDY], DISK3:[JANE.], [PEGGY]a<   $ DEFINE THISDISK DISK4:, DISK5:[SUE], [LARRY], [], ROME::    $ SET DEFAULT DEFDISK:[FOOBAR]   $ DIR THISDISK:   B And so the file system has to run through the permutations of yourE search-list default disk, your search-list file spec and your defaulteG directory to figure all the places where it should look for files.  AndpD if it can't find a file, it has to figure out which error message to< display.  No such device?  no such directory?  no such file? Node unreachable?u  ? For fun, you can easily cobble up nested (or recursive!) searcheC lists with hundreds or even thousands of translations.  Last time I/C checked this, the search logic cut out with a loop detection cutofflD at a depth of 8 and a total of 256 translations (if I remember right from long long ago).   A more classic syndrome is:u     $ SET DEFAULT SYS$MANAGER:
   $ DIR MKA0:s  H You get the tape directory listing twice with a rewind in between.  OnceG for each translation of SYS$SYSROOT.  Because the choice of translation J affects the selected directory name, even though the system manager didn't; expect it to and even though the mag tape ACP doesn't care.t  I Hey -- you didn't explicitly specify a directory.  So the file system hadt	 to guess.z   the classic workaround is:    $ DIR MKA0:[]  F Thus explicitly specifying a null directory name (which gets filled inF from the one stashed by SYS$SETDDIR and which then gets ignored by the mag tape ACP).   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:29:43 GMTmG From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP>aJ Subject: Re: RMS file structure internals documentation freely available ?6 Message-ID: <HKwM7.38283$xS6.62850@www.newsranger.com>  . On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:24:22 +0100, in article4 <VA.000004cc.95590456@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture wrote: >-L >In article <BrbL7.34376$xS6.59300@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubley wrote:1 >> On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:44:48 +0100, in articleR7 >> <VA.000004c6.832e8c0f@bluewin.ch>, Paul Sture wrote:x >> >R >> >I did manage to dig up a reference to an RMS-11 Internals manual in old DECUS S >> >SIGtapes. How to get hold of them in readable format I don't know (did I see a . >> >mention of BRU in there?). >> >R >> >http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/11s1 >> >01.html        >> > >> . >> Found it. :-) >> gQ >> Noting that the document at the above URL is from the RSX SIG Spring Symposium 5 >> Collection for 1988, digging around further gives:a >>  j >> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rsx/decus/rsx88a/373310/rmsint2.doc >> eN >Well, er, yes. Here's a question: Out of that 140 pages did you find anything >of practical use? >___ >Paul Stures >Switzerland >y  L Well, er, yes. :-) Although I have not had the time to study the document inH detail yet, I was after an RMS version of the ODS-2 McCoy book, which isK what this document is. My main interest was in seeing how indexed files are J stored on disk, and although the document is very dated (ie: no Prolog 3), it is at least a start.    Simon.   -- n@ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPK In the task of removing Microsoft from the marketplace, I have discovered arE truly remarkable plan, but this signature is too small to contain it.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:59:50 +0000 % From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>iJ Subject: Re: RMS file structure internals documentation freely available ?' Message-ID: <3C029F36.83B16EB2@iee.org>N   Simon Clubley wrote:N > Well, er, yes. :-) Although I have not had the time to study the document inJ > detail yet, I was after an RMS version of the ODS-2 McCoy book, which isM > what this document is. My main interest was in seeing how indexed files are L > stored on disk, and although the document is very dated (ie: no Prolog 3), > it is at least a start.i  5 "RMS Structures and Utilities on VAX/VMS" (the coursem2 handout I mentioned earlier on) is now scanned and5 will be headed towards DFWCUG in the next week or so.-  ) It dates from 1986 and mentions Prolog 3.m   AntonioJ   -- <   ---------------t- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgm   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:12:22 GMTn3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> & Subject: Re: RWAST problems - Part .../ Message-ID: <3C029361.51466A3F@cableinet.co.uk>u   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > , > Last week I discovered another thing about > my rwast problem:d > + > I believe now it is not a problem related  > to TCPIP, or RDB.l > 5 > I have two process in RWAST until now, and they are / > not locking the database. Both are suspended.i > 6 > Other is suspended but consuming almost 100% of CPU.7 > It is running (COM) in a subprocess of a main processh > in RWAST.a >   6 If the process is suspended then it should be in SUSP 9 state not COM. Do you mean you have attempted to suspend  2 the process (set proc/susp/id=) or something else?  5 > Other subprocess from the same parent process is in 1 > RWAST but there is no image related in the SDA.m > 5 > What makes me thing in the possibility of a libraryp* > (LIB$SPAWN) or operating system problem.7 > My VMS is 7.2, Oracle RDB 7.0-31, TCPIP 5.0A-ECO3 and- > Cobol 2.5... > + > Do you have any idea about this problem ?b > 4 > Process index: 00C0   Name: STM_31   Extended PID:
 > 0001BCC06 >                             Process activated images6 >                             ------------------------ > 8 >   IMCB    Start     End    Sym Vect    Type      Image > Name  Major ID,Minor IDr > 5 > Total images = 0                Pages allocated = 0t >   e3 Try SDA> show process/channel to see open channels   for the process.    ' Did you check for any relevant patches?-   regards-      --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of i! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 13:24:27 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org& Subject: Re: RWAST problems - Part ...3 Message-ID: <52G$dyXM3HlQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>"  q In article <20011126182114.92160.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:t > Didier > ( > I have a subprocess with NO image !!!!/ > This is why I think it is a LIB$SPAWN problemH0 > or something similar. Looks like the LIB$SPAWN0 > doesnt finish completely after "liberating the	 > image".  > / > At least the SDA dont give me any information6 > regarding 
 > a image.  E I'd be thinking in terms of a process that has gone at least part way D through image rundown (blanking the image field) but is in a compute, loop trying to run the rest of the way down.  > The parent process has presumably been hit with a $DELPRC call@ (possibly $ STOP /ID) and this has caused the subprocesses to beI deleted (assuming they weren't running down already).  But, until they'res# gone, the parent will sit in RWAST.b  G Since the child is looping, PC samples should be illuminating.  Perhapsa% you can tell what it is trying to do.m   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:15:45 +0100i, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>& Subject: Re: RWAST problems - Part ...& Message-ID: <3C032F90.24FA5C46@gmx.ch>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Didier > ( > I have a subprocess with NO image !!!!  ' Sorry, I read "with no process in SDA".e: So, the subprocess runs a DCL command proc which loops...?   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:34:10 GMTg) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>y? Subject: Re: Samba 2.0.3 handling of files with no ".extension"h& Message-ID: <3C032C7F.6010605@qsl.net>  $ [CC: to the Samba-vms mailing list.] Roy Omond wrote:   > Paul Repacholi wrote:n >  > 1 >>Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:- >> >>C >>>Weird thing is, in a DOS window I can successfully create a filewF >>>with no extension (COPY X.X ABCD) and the file appears correctly onD >>>the VMS side, but the new file is invisible on the Weendoze side. >>>(C >>Can you see a 'ABCD.'? Remember, VMS has a 2 part file name, witho. >>the '.' as a seperator that is always there. >> > G > In short, no.  The file (viewed from VMS) called ABCD. is not visibleMA > on the Weendoze side at all.  The COPY X.X ABCD mentioned above0D > produces the ABCD. file on VMS, which is subsequently invisible as > described. > E > The file ABCD. (on the Weendoze side) is named ABCD__2E. on the VMS 7 > side (using the filename munging algorithm of Samba).e    H Ah, somehow SAMBA 2.0.3 on OpenVMS is thinking that Samba client wanted E the file to be named "ABCD..".  Note the two trailing dots.  That is h> quite a different case than ignoring files with a trailing "."    K > Previous versions of Samba had no problems with this.  I'll be looking attA > this problem again on Wednesday when I'm next on customer site.     A I do not believe that SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS has this aberation.w  
 As a test:      $rename ABCD__2E. abcd.__2E  I And see if SAMBA 2.0.3 for OpenVMS can handle this.  It was a change put :G into SAMBA in an attempt to track what Pathworks Server was doing, and OG it looks like it has a few cases where it does not work in SAMBA 2.0.3.i  F Is this only a problem with existing files, or are new files affected?  D The name translating part of SAMBA on OpenVMS has continued to be a I source of pain.  To do it right incurs a high CPU or disk access latency.y  I The structure for SAMBA 2.2.x may allow for some improvements there, but  < it added quite a few more architectural hurtles to overcome.     -Johni wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyc   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 15:02:10 -08001 From: jason_odonnell@erinet.com (Jason O'Donnell)o! Subject: Re: Sethi second edition-= Message-ID: <5c8ffd05.0111261502.35018c83@posting.google.com>n  L > We recognize the need for a new edition and are currently negotiating with > acG > potential author to revise the book, but no date has yet been set fori > publication.   Sauer?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:06:27 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3C0292AF.49275815@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:G > Compaq doesn't give a rat's about the VMS or Tru64 customers or theirt > applications.j  K Yes they do. They care to keep them there until they can find a way to move L them to NT without losing them. The revenus generated by VMS subsidize theirE wintel crap business so they can't part with VMS revenus just as yet.e  I > extent those markets.  No advertising to the masses.  Marketing only toc > the existing customer base.o  M Exactly. they only care about the installed base because that is their source M of revenus that allows them to work on fixing up their core business: wintel.aH They are not interested in growing VMS, they are interested in gradually( phasing out while keeping the customers.  F > Compaq doesn't have a clue about what it requires to go head-to-head5 > with Dell but despite this they continue to try to.O  I I am not so certain about this. The biggest difference between the two is I distribution. Dell uses FedEx (or whetever) with the only inventory being G parts needed to build the boxes. Compaq has a complex relationship with4I distributors, resellers and retailers, each with their inefficiencies and2 profit margins."  N Compaq is stuck with a very archaic distribution paradigm. On the one hand, itN allows the showcasing of its products (such as Radio Shack stores), but on the< other hand, it means that their machines are more expensive.  M The problem is that transitioning from the old distributor model to the newer-N direct sales model is a big leap. Your existing retailers will desert you veryH fast, you will lose the percent of customers who really want to see your products before they buy.   I The other issue is that of worldwide sales. Dell is very focused on northiK america now. But when you sell around the globe, you need to develop/change/I your paradigm many times for each geography. Compaq has to deal with this N issue. It can't expect someone in France to call up some 800 number in houston7 to order their PC and expect it delivered the next day.*  H I don't know how well Sony is doing, but I think that this has some veryM interesting potential since they have already a low cost distribution networkoM for all of their gear to all sorts of electronics stores. Adding one more setDD of devices (computers) will make use of the existing infrastructure.  X Compaq needs about the same infrastructure to distribute a much lower numbr of machines.  N Surely Comapq could easily streamline its manufacturing and parts purchased toC have that portion of the business being very competitive with Dell.c  F > Au contraire.  The best thing they could do would be to slash the PCJ > division to ribbons.  It returns 2% of profit so it deserves to be 2% of > the emphasis of the company.  N Yes, that is the logical thing to do based on today's environment. But if yourN main advisor (Winkler) tells you that wintel will rule the enterprise in a fewN years, it then follows that you should focus on preparing your wintel businessK to reap that market which will materialize sometime in the near future. AndnN when Winkler tells you that it will be a high margin business, then it becomesN less important to find a way to reduce the number of screws in each machine by 2 to save on costs.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:06:28 GMTc3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>"N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C0291E6.B12E813F@cableinet.co.uk>O   JF Mezei wrote:g >  > Jeff Killeen wrote:CN > > shinking by half every 3 years.  The other issue is Compaq had been makingK > > commitments that would make it "legally interesting" for HP if they didr	 > > this.t > L > If Compaq is able to kill Alpha, then surely is knows of a way to kill VMSP > without breaking the contracts. Killing VMS doesn't mean that Compaq no longerN > has anyone assigned to VMS, it just means that VMS becomes a mature product,O > no longer sold to new customers, but supported for those who paid the DII-COEgO > thingy. It also means that the VMS support infrastructure can be rationalised.K > to support those few customers with DII-CEO. (eg: no longer any worldwide 1 > support, just support of the US military/govt).   % JF, stop giving these people ideas...    -- I Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of i! my employers or service provider.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:09:36 +0100.1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>tN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org5 Message-ID: <3C02A180.C1058697@swissonline.delete.ch>]   Alan Greig wrote:t   ....  F > But the market realities show that Compaq pisses away money on IntelF > based systems while raking it in with Alphas - or at least did untilE > Compaq announced its premature death. What market realities are yout; > talking about? The one that says "Wintel, Wintel, Wintel"o > H > See the recent posts in c.o.v. analysing ROI for Compaq business unitsH > over the last three years. Proof that Compaq management insanely throw; > all the profits from BCSD at subsidizing the PC business.e >   F I can now add some more to those posts on ROI because I took a look at4 Dell's figures to see how they compared with Compaq.   1998:e ----H Dell's revenue, income and expenses (all in million):  $18243, $2046 and $161971 Compaq's equivalent figures: $16778, $137, $16641   & Dell's RoI= 12.63%  but Compaq's 0.82%   1999:S ----H Dell's revenue, income and expenses (all in million):  $25265, $2263 and $230022 Compaq's equivalent figures: $18179, -$448, $18627  & Dell's RoI= 9.84%  but Compaq's -2.41%   2000:e ----H Dell's revenue, income and expenses (all in million):  $31888, $2663 and $292251 Compaq's equivalent figures: $20722, $459, $20263I  % Dell's RoI= 9.11%  but Compaq's 2.27%     ( I don't have to summarise this, do I ??        John McLeanf   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:27:35 GMTl& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org8 Message-ID: <XAxM7.2925$3n6.195095@typhoon1.gnilink.net>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C027F46.B974DF3F@swissonline.delete.ch...u > What planet are you on ? >rG > Compaq doesn't give a rat's about the VMS or Tru64 customers or theirnG > applications.  This is screamingly obvious from the lack of effort tocI > extent those markets.  No advertising to the masses.  Marketing only tor > the existing customer base.   F Compaq rightly or wrongly has come to the conclusion because of a firmF impression currently formed by the marketplace that the cost to expandK OVMS's market (marketing dollars) would not be worth the return.  That doeso4 Not mean they don't value the current customer base.  H Mass advertising either product at this point would be a unwise businessL move.  To create brand identity through mass marketing for a sub-brand costsH hundreds of millions of dollars.  There is only mass advertising for theD most part for the corporate brand these days.  IBM doesn't advertiseJ AS/400's or z/390 systems.  The market the primary brand identity with theI exception of true consumer brands like ThinkPad's.  You don't market OVMS,J like a $200 Microsoft personal operating system.  People in the OVMS priceE range buy solutions and market penetration depends upon ISV's (see myu comments below).  I As far Tru64 goes they have been trying to expand its market share from 8 G percent into double digits including such high profile (and likely loss,9 leader) projects as the Pittsburgh Super Computer Center.w  F > Compaq doesn't have a clue about what it requires to go head-to-headG > with Dell but despite this they continue to try to.  They spent $55.5eI > BILLION in the years 1998 to 2000 trying to compete with Dell.  For alluH > that they managed to make $148 million profit, which means a profit ofG > an underwhelming 0.27% of what they spent.  The $55+ billion was moretI > than half of the total money spent by Compaq and the income was just 2%1 > of the total income.  I I don't know who you are speaking to inside of Compaq but over a year agoLF they stopped trying to compete with Dell for number one in the market.  7 > > If they ever make that decision you will see a cost/G > > reduction program unlike anything you ever convinced of before.  Ifd CompaqE > > decides to compete with Dell head on within 18 months Compaq will  spin-offK > > (one way or another) everything but the WinTel Stuff, storage, and some) ofH > > services.  The rest of the stuff would have to go to create the cost3 > > structure where Compaq could compete with Dell.s >hF > Au contraire.  The best thing they could do would be to slash the PCJ > division to ribbons.  It returns 2% of profit so it deserves to be 2% of > the emphasis of the company.  L Why don't you read and respond to what I wrote John - I did not suggest thatF Compaq take this course - what I clearly said is if they did take this) course the above would be the end result.n  I > > I believe you will find that in their heart of hearts all of Compaq's  seniorF > > management and their board of directors believe that attempting to competeS5 > > with Dell as a box assembler is a death sentence.e > I > ... then I cannot understand why you do not see that Compaq has a deathr
 > wish ...  B I think the current Compaq leadership is dealing realistically andI unemotionally with the hand they have been dealt.  IMO people who suggest I OVMS can become a mainstream product again at this point are posting withdF their head and not objectively looking at the marketplace.  What makesK mainstream products these days are ISV's supporting it.  With the exceptionuH of I believe 5 key markets that ship has sailed for OVMS and there isn'tI enough money in Compaq to cause that ship to return.  I had some hope forrI Tru64 prior to the merger but the way its viability has been spoken of by I Compaq management that ship also just sailed.  No ISV in their right mind L would develop for if the merger fails.  Compaq's only value add hope at thisK point in time is services and storage.  Hopefully storage will end up beingc$ to Compaq what printers are to HP...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:31:05 GMT & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org7 Message-ID: <dExM7.2098$zf.205576@typhoon2.gnilink.net>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C028CE6.D1151DA0@videotron.ca...K > Can you corroborate this ? Since Winkler has not been fired, it is a safe  betSG > that his stated opinions that wintel will rule the datacentre must bes taken as > Compaq policy.  H JF I don't know why you feel so strongly about Winkler but if the mergerJ happens Blackmore wins over Winkler and Winkler will be out of the productH decision space and move over to supply chain management.  That is public information...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:50:35 GMTh3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C02B517.276D13A1@cableinet.co.uk>    Jeff Killeen wrote:- [snip]N > I believe you will find that in their heart of hearts all of Compaq's seniorL > management and their board of directors believe that attempting to competeL > with Dell as a box assembler is a death sentence.  That is Compaq if can'tM > find a value add beyond building and shipping the fastest box that they are@ > not viable as a corporation. > N > Do NOT equate poor execution with a lack of desire.  The desire is there but4 > they yet have found a way to execute successfully.  H too busy spendng their fat bonuses perchance? Maybe their careers should be' "executed successfully" as you put it. 3   > D > > In the end, there will be IBM and Dell.  The only issues are howH > > everyone will arrive at that point.  DEC could have been there also.L > > They would have had to carefully analyze what they could do, and not do,H > > and make sure they didn't blow money on things that would be losers.J > > Palmer took the easy way out.  Easy for him, rather rough for the rest
 > > of us. >  [snip]H > David I do not believe Compaq where it sits today has a viable overallM > business strategy.  History has shown in all industries that companies thathH > are either perceived as providing the best premium service or the bestF > commodity product are the ones that make the money (e.g. Daimler andL > Toyota).  That has been proven over and over again.  Compaq has put itselfK > in a situation where can't provide the best commodity product or the bestaN > premium service.  Companies that find themselves in that half way always runK > into trouble as the market matures.  (Note I said premium service and not  > just premium product)- > I > Also David I think you are reading flawed execution on Compaq's part asML > being what their true desire is.  Believe me working with Encompass I haveM > spent too much time with them for their execs to be putting on that good ofsH > a snow job. Their comments are too repetitive and too pervasive.  TheyI > really don't want to get into the Dell business and they really do want-C > their value add to be being able to build your IT infrastructure..  C "flawed execution"? These people are suppossed to be professionals,s surely?"F Are they learning on the job? You don't get away with that in IT these days( for many orders of magnitude less cash.    -- o Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  R  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of O! my employers or service provider.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:53:39 GMTl* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgA Message-ID: <DRyM7.129497$dk.9871668@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   1 "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messagem2 news:XAxM7.2925$3n6.195095@typhoon1.gnilink.net...   ...a  H > Compaq rightly or wrongly has come to the conclusion because of a firm0 > impression currently formed by the marketplace  L The marketplace may *hold* an impression, but it was indubitably *formed by*; first DEC's and now Compaq's utter neglect of the platform.h    that the cost to expandB > OVMS's market (marketing dollars) would not be worth the return.  H That conclusion is incorrect.  Compaq has been told this in no uncertainI terms over and over.  It has yet to perform any substantial experiment to I test the validity of its conclusion - but the up-tick in VMS sales caused J merely by its tepid and short-lived 'renaissance' (despite the lack of any. substantial promotion) provides a strong clue.     That does26 > Not mean they don't value the current customer base.  K They may value the revenue they derive from it, though even that is suspectwK given how little effort they devote to responding to its desires.  But theynH clearly don't care about that portion of it that needs a platform with aL future rather than something largely and increasingly torpid.  And they alsoJ clearly didn't consider the inconvenience they would cause it by switching= hardware platforms to be a significant deterrent to doing so.o  H So while 'not giving a rat's ass about it' may be a slight exaggeration, it's not off by much.    >iJ > Mass advertising either product at this point would be a unwise business > move.e  I That may be true.  But there is a staggering gap between mass advertisinglD and the near-zero attention that VMS gets, and major improvements inK promotion are eminently possible without even starting to approach anything % that qualifies as 'mass advertising'.c  G   To create brand identity through mass marketing for a sub-brand costs J > hundreds of millions of dollars.  There is only mass advertising for theF > most part for the corporate brand these days.  IBM doesn't advertise > AS/400's or z/390 systems.  H Incorrect.  I've seen several times recently a television ad in which anK executive calls in security to investigate the disappearance of a room fulluI of servers only to be told that they have been consolidated into a singleeH multi-instance Linux (clearly a z-Series) box.  And within recent memory/ they've run ads featuring RS/6000 Unix servers.s  0   The market the primary brand identity with theK > exception of true consumer brands like ThinkPad's.  You don't market OVMS 2 > like a $200 Microsoft personal operating system.  K Again, that may be true.  And again, the problem is rather that Compaq does / not market VMS in any significant way *at all*.w     People in the OVMS priceG > range buy solutions and market penetration depends upon ISV's (see mys > comments below). >nK > As far Tru64 goes they have been trying to expand its market share from 8 I > percent into double digits including such high profile (and likely losst; > leader) projects as the Pittsburgh Super Computer Center.f  I And reportedly succeeding - until they put a major rod into the spokes ontK June 25th.  But again that clearly didn't deter them from doing so, and noweL it looks as if Tru64 is going to be allowed to fade away rather than competeG with the significantly inferior (but currently more popular) HP/UX.  IfiL Compaq management were to acquire a set of balls, they'd likely play croquet
 with them.   ...o  K > I don't know who you are speaking to inside of Compaq but over a year agoxH > they stopped trying to compete with Dell for number one in the market.  D But a tad too late to save Pfeiffer and his vision of a more-than-PCK company.  And if they weren't still trying, one wonders how they managed toaK lose as much on PCs as they did:  that's usually the result of fighting forf
 market share.s   ...i  D > I think the current Compaq leadership is dealing realistically and3 > unemotionally with the hand they have been dealt.m  I Let's see.  The hand they were dealt 2+ years ago included NT on Alpha, asK field-test version of Win64 on Alpha (with no other 64-bit Windows platform D yet available - for another 2 years, as it turned out), Alpha itselfC (complete with a well-researched road map for the next 6 years - as G contrasted with *any* other platform's), nascent ad campaigns for Alpha H systems that were at least beginning to make the market feel Alpha had a: future under its new owner - and a struggling PC business.  L They took that hand and discarded its three kings in the hope of filling outB a straight.  If that's 'realistic and unemotional', then it merelyG demonstrates that they haven't the slightest clue how to play the game.i     IMO people who suggestK > OVMS can become a mainstream product again at this point are posting withi< > their head and not objectively looking at the marketplace.  ) Yet another sentiment I can agree with...t     What makesC > mainstream products these days are ISV's supporting it.  With thee	 exceptionuJ > of I believe 5 key markets that ship has sailed for OVMS and there isn't6 > enough money in Compaq to cause that ship to return.  L ... save that once again there's a *massive* gulf between being a mainstreamF product like Windows and the kind of fading niche product Compaq seemsK determined to turn VMS into:  to suggest that VMS is now viable only in the H '5 key markets' some idiot decided to confine it to is absolute rubbish.     I had some hope for K > Tru64 prior to the merger but the way its viability has been spoken of byFK > Compaq management that ship also just sailed.  No ISV in their right mind.( > would develop for if the merger fails.  K Unless Compaq's current management evaporates along with it and is replacedrL by people who understand Tru64's real value - and VMS's, and Alpha's:  givenB that all three products managed to stay afloat and profitable withH minimal-to-zero active support from their owner, there's every reason toJ believe that under competent ownership they'd do significantly better (and' thus be significantly more attractive).V  &   Compaq's only value add hope at this( > point in time is services and storage.  L Over the past 2+ years Compaq has not added value but consistently destroyedJ it.  And there's no reason to believe that situation will change until its management does.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:05:32 +0100h1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org5 Message-ID: <3C02BCAC.965D90D7@swissonline.delete.ch>-   Jeff Killeen wrote:e > @ > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message1 > news:3C027F46.B974DF3F@swissonline.delete.ch...s > > What planet are you on ? > >tI > > Compaq doesn't give a rat's about the VMS or Tru64 customers or theireI > > applications.  This is screamingly obvious from the lack of effort toaK > > extent those markets.  No advertising to the masses.  Marketing only tot > > the existing customer base.s > H > Compaq rightly or wrongly has come to the conclusion because of a firmH > impression currently formed by the marketplace that the cost to expandM > OVMS's market (marketing dollars) would not be worth the return.  That doeso6 > Not mean they don't value the current customer base.  E It seems to me that Compaq did their level best to destroy any marketoA for VMS by continuing the "on it's death bed" attitude from DEC.  G Despite this it seems that there is a loyal market out there who refusepE to go away.  That in itself is an endorsement for the product ... but A apparently Compaq would rather try to make it's own attitudes and0 comments become reality.    vJ > Mass advertising either product at this point would be a unwise businessN > move.  To create brand identity through mass marketing for a sub-brand costsJ > hundreds of millions of dollars.  There is only mass advertising for theF > most part for the corporate brand these days.  IBM doesn't advertiseL > AS/400's or z/390 systems.  The market the primary brand identity with theK > exception of true consumer brands like ThinkPad's.  You don't market OVMS L > like a $200 Microsoft personal operating system.  People in the OVMS priceG > range buy solutions and market penetration depends upon ISV's (see my4 > comments below).  G IBM still advertise in general terms and remain visible.  No-one thinksnG for a moment that they have left the mainframe space.  OTOH Compaq havetF made only weak efforts to try to convince anyone that they do anythingH else but sell PCs.  I tried suggesting to Compaq that they advertise allC their platforms in one ad and say that each has its advantages.  OfN1 course they didn't want to even discuss the idea.     xK > As far Tru64 goes they have been trying to expand its market share from 8nI > percent into double digits including such high profile (and likely loss ; > leader) projects as the Pittsburgh Super Computer Center.e  F High profile and extremely niche-oriented products.  Does your averageF buyer of high-end platforms for commercial applications realy take any! notice of super-computer sales ??a  iH > > Compaq doesn't have a clue about what it requires to go head-to-headI > > with Dell but despite this they continue to try to.  They spent $55.5pK > > BILLION in the years 1998 to 2000 trying to compete with Dell.  For allhJ > > that they managed to make $148 million profit, which means a profit ofI > > an underwhelming 0.27% of what they spent.  The $55+ billion was morelK > > than half of the total money spent by Compaq and the income was just 2%p > > of the total income. > K > I don't know who you are speaking to inside of Compaq but over a year agonH > they stopped trying to compete with Dell for number one in the market.  G That's what they said but no-one believed them because by their actionseG they contradicted themselves. If they were serious they would have axede the entire PC section. u  e9 > > > If they ever make that decision you will see a costIP > > > reduction program unlike anything you ever convinced of before.  If CompaqP > > > decides to compete with Dell head on within 18 months Compaq will spin-offP > > > (one way or another) everything but the WinTel Stuff, storage, and some ofJ > > > services.  The rest of the stuff would have to go to create the cost5 > > > structure where Compaq could compete with Dell.u > >rH > > Au contraire.  The best thing they could do would be to slash the PCL > > division to ribbons.  It returns 2% of profit so it deserves to be 2% of  > > the emphasis of the company. > N > Why don't you read and respond to what I wrote John - I did not suggest thatH > Compaq take this course - what I clearly said is if they did take this+ > course the above would be the end result.f  D Okay, read in a certain context ... I'll grant you some leeway...butF (and we're probably in agreement on this) the idea is too commercially stupid to contemplate.  G But then again, see my previous comment and consider whether commercial 4 stupidity has ever stopped Compaq doing anything ...      > R > > > I believe you will find that in their heart of hearts all of Compaq's seniorP > > > management and their board of directors believe that attempting to compete7 > > > with Dell as a box assembler is a death sentence.i > >nK > > ... then I cannot understand why you do not see that Compaq has a deatht > > wish ... > D > I think the current Compaq leadership is dealing realistically and3 > unemotionally with the hand they have been dealt.   H No.  It's the hand they they have chosen to draw.  Ignoring the high-endE big-money earners from Digital and Tandem is/was like throwing away 3a$ kings in the hope of getting 3 aces.     > IMO people who suggestK > OVMS can become a mainstream product again at this point are posting withi< > their head and not objectively looking at the marketplace.  E I'm commenting on the mess that Compaq have created and how they havexG never seriously attempted to grow those markets, but then turned arounde1 and said that there is no potential market there.     X > What makes mainstream products these days are ISV's supporting it.  With the exceptionJ > of I believe 5 key markets that ship has sailed for OVMS and there isn't6 > enough money in Compaq to cause that ship to return.  D And who decided what those 5 key markets would be ?  Compaq.  And inF doing so they immediately aliented the rest of the potential market byA first saying they were not important and then trying to sell them1E windows boxes.  I was amused when the Canadian geo-physical crowd puteC together a very nice application on VMS workstations because it wasg2 right outside the niches that Compaq had assigned.  D You also say there's not enough money for the VMS ship to return butC what has been keeping the company afloat for the last 4 years ?  Itl ain't windows ...e  H It seems axiomatic that one should build on one's strengths not on one's weaknesses ...    ` >  I had some hope for Tru64 prior to the merger but the way its viability has been spoken of by/ > Compaq management that ship also just sailed.i  D Yes, and that happened after loud commitments from Compaq that Tru64F would be ported to Intel.  Given the state of discussions with HP that: sounds suspiciously like fraudulent comments from them ...    i > No ISV in their right mind would develop for if the merger fails.  Compaq's only value add hope at thistM > point in time is services and storage.  Hopefully storage will end up beingn& > to Compaq what printers are to HP...  G And what's that ?  The only fragment of the company that is still alivetG ?  And being so means that all it takes to trash the whole company is asA competitor who has a better printer ... or better storage system.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:31:51 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org5 Message-ID: <3C02C2D7.699D11FB@swissonline.delete.ch>g    Sorry, something I forgot to say   Jeff Killeen wrote:e ...snip D > I think the current Compaq leadership is dealing realistically andK > unemotionally with the hand they have been dealt.  IMO people who suggesttK > OVMS can become a mainstream product again at this point are posting withy< > their head and not objectively looking at the marketplace.  F I'm don't care if it is mainstream or not, the point is that it is farF far more profitable than pissing about in the PC arena and that CompaqE should have been working harder to milk the potential VMS market, nota neglect it.s   How profitable is it ?  F We suppose we divert just 5% of the expenses for PCs in Year 2000 intoA expenses for "Enterprise".  If the same returns on investment are G achieved (2.27% for PCs and 17.58% for Enterprise), then this diversion < of just 5% will generate in increase of $153 million income.  G Not something to laugh at when Compaq's stated figures for PC income inuH Year 2000 was only 3 times that amount.  (And I should add that this wasF a very good year for PC sales, the combined total for PCs in 98 and 99 was a loss of $311 million.)     John   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:24:01 GMTe& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org7 Message-ID: <laAM7.2181$zf.212193@typhoon2.gnilink.net>m  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagey; news:DRyM7.129497$dk.9871668@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...w >-3 > "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message I > > To create brand identity through mass marketing for a sub-brand costsoL > > hundreds of millions of dollars.  There is only mass advertising for theH > > most part for the corporate brand these days.  IBM doesn't advertise > > AS/400's or z/390 systems. > J > Incorrect.  I've seen several times recently a television ad in which anH > executive calls in security to investigate the disappearance of a room fullK > of servers only to be told that they have been consolidated into a singleR0 > multi-instance Linux (clearly a z-Series) box.  H Bill I am afraid you don't understand what brand advertising is.  I haveL seen that ad and it is a message ad and _not_ a sub-brand identity ad.  ThatJ ad was designed to implant in the viewers mind IBM has a solution that canL replace a room full for servers with a single box running Linux - and not toJ implant the identity of z-Series sub brand.  It is very consist with theirH corporate branding program which is to get you to think IBM = Solutions.G The target market for those ads (CEO's or CIO's) who would find productsE messages noise that would obscure the message IBM = Solutions to youra business problems.  I I think this is very illustrative of the mistake people make thinking all I that Compaq needs to do is advertise OVMS.  Note these comments are beingSL made in the context of OVMS expanding its market.  Compaq needs to create anJ identity with CIO's that it equals best in class enterprise solutions.  ItG appears that Compaq is just about to achieve that goal with NSK and theeL application that kicked it over the edge seems to be ZLE.  They could marketL the NSK technology to the general business community until the cows came andJ they would achieve nothing except in a few specialized sectors.  When theyL started marketing ZLE that was a business concept that CIO's and CEO's couldH understand.  They have had some big wins as result, all of which are notH public yet.  But is was the solution and not the technology that broughtA Compaq into this new market for NSK.  Just advertising OVMS won't K significantly expand its market.  It will require some solution which showssD OVMS is clearly better suited for that has perceived business value.  J It is very hard for individuals who find OVMS as valuable in and of itselfA to understand that for expanding into markets its is applications F (solutions) corporate managers are looking for. These managers need toJ believe that OVMS offers something unique that makes that application muchH better suited to be deployed on OVMS.  A pre-condition of that is either6 Compaq or an ISV developing those killer applications.  L Here is a simple test if you want to expand OVMS's market.  Write an ad thatJ would appeal the CEO of the company who knows little about computers.  AdsK that appeal to fear only tend to work if the person first has that fear and H second believes that the fear can be mitigated.  Just saying your systemH will crash less won't appeal to someone who believes the systems stay upH enough now or that every computer is going to crash.  Ads that appeal toF gaining advantage are most effective e.g. putting your business on theJ Internet will double your income.  A good example of the gaining advantageI type ad is the IBM ad where buyers are in a mom and pop shop and the shopiH owners check their handheld and point out they "have 10,000 units in the warehouse in New Jersey".t  H Whether one likes it or not CIO's and CEO's tend not to be swayed by theH fine points in the differences between OS technologies.  They tend to be3 driven by applications they find highly valuable...e   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2001 00:05:20 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org% Message-ID: <9tulc0$9tq@web.nmti.com>   8 In article <ZbcM7.2433$3n6.167785@typhoon1.gnilink.net>,% Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:yN > Even if we accept Todd's contention that it will take two IA64 processors toN > equal one Alpha processor the cost won't be any higher because the R&D costs) > will be spread over a much larger base.m  D Jeff, surely you're not really making the "nine women" mistake here?   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.aE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."eL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:39:48 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>nN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org, Message-ID: <3C02E0D2.FC360257@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote: J > Mass advertising either product at this point would be a unwise businessN > move.  To create brand identity through mass marketing for a sub-brand costs" > hundreds of millions of dollars.  L easy to say. But consider that it is possible to advertise VMS for free whenL there is the will do to so. Whenever Compaq announces its financial results,K it could insert one or two lines about its VM'S product line, the profit itnM generates , and last year, the fact that it had begun to grow again. And when'K Capellas goes to CNN to discuss the dinancial results, he could mention VMSeM and ALPHA that are the years ahead of everyone in clustering and reliability.b  J When Steve Jobs was invited to CNN to discuss financial results, he had noJ problem bringing the then new cube and put it on the desk and spoke of itsK technical achievements (cooling without fan, not just a fancy looking box).s  I And then, you have press releases that could make noise about various VMSp applications etc etc.d    N But instead of taking those opportunities to showcase soem of the products forH which mass marketing, Compaq goes though great lengths to ignore VMS andM mention everything else, and goes through great lengths to bury VMS's profitsu& into money losing winter server stuff.    F > most part for the corporate brand these days.  IBM doesn't advertise > AS/400's or z/390 systems. o  L Funny, they seem proud to mention that their mainframes are doing quite well whenever they have a chance.    L > like a $200 Microsoft personal operating system.  People in the OVMS priceG > range buy solutions and market penetration depends upon ISV's (see my  > comments below).  J But you forget the fact that Compaq's active steps to ignore VMS is givingL potential customers a strong message that VMS is not important to Compaq and risks being cancelled.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:39:59 GMTt- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111261120350.10343-100000@world.std.com>  ( On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, David Froble wrote:   > Terry C Shannon wrote: >  > >n > K > > Alpha may well have had no difficulty attracting customers away from an-M > > exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Itanic, but note that saidoD > > Alpha customers would be limited to VMS and Tru64 staterooms, or. > > doule-bunks in the Linux steerage section. >g >eE > As S390 customers have a few OSs to choose from.  Even to the Linuxo > economy bunks. >e  F This is true. But I am told that Compaq (which virtually ignored LinuxG until CTO Shane Robison set up the Linux Program Office) saw diminishedoB demand for Linux on Alpha concurrent with the dramatic clock speed0 increases on IA32 over the past couple of years.  I In any event CPQ sold fewer--way fewer, some say--than 100K Alpha systemsmH last year. Alpha is a low volume platform. It It shoulda, coulda, woulda* been something else, but them's the facts.        >G > > Marketing malfeasance and stupid strategy tricks severely curtailedtJ > > Alpha's addressable market. Assuming flat VMS sales (actually down 6-7H > > percent in Q2 and Q3) and modest growth in Tru64 (say from 5 percentG > > market share to 6-8 percent) there wasn't a heck of a lot of growtho > > opportunity. >h! > Can't argue with the stupidity.  >. > F > However, I contend that until Compaq drove the stake through Alpha'sI > heart, VMS sales were a bit positive.  Let's look at what these numberspH > mean.  Each year as many VMS systems were sold, dollar wise I'd think,H > as the previous year.  Assuming that this is profitable business, thatJ > means that Compaq was making money on VMs each year.  This holy grail ofG > sales growth over the previous year is a nice thought, but, even withs@ > zero growth (and zero decline) Compaq was making decent money.C > Including enough to support Alpha, and still have a profit.  ThishF > statement comes from some figures provided slightly over a year ago. >b >dD > Alpha, T64, VMS, and Tandem together would have been a nice littleI > business, with or without growth.  Face it, nothing could ever approachnG > the numbers of the PCs.  But the former would be doing much more workB> > than all the PCs.  What are most PCs used for?  Typewriters,) > calculators, user interfaces, and such.e >iI > Compaq wanted the PC volumn and the enterprise margins.  In their greed ! > I expect they'll get the shaft.b >s  I If Compaq abandons the enterprise space and becomes a Wintel lapdog, it'smA time to call in Doc Kevorkian and put the firm out of its misery!   A Gee, the Spring annual stockholders meeting should be interestingy	 indeed...t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:19:06 GMTc3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C02CD05.B09C57D2@cableinet.co.uk>e   Jeff Killeen wrote:  [snip]N > I believe you will find that in their heart of hearts all of Compaq's seniorL > management and their board of directors believe that attempting to competeL > with Dell as a box assembler is a death sentence.  That is Compaq if can'tM > find a value add beyond building and shipping the fastest box that they aree > not viable as a corporation. > N > Do NOT equate poor execution with a lack of desire.  The desire is there but4 > they yet have found a way to execute successfully.  H too busy spendng their fat bonuses perchance? Maybe their careers should be' "executed successfully" as you put it. d   > D > > In the end, there will be IBM and Dell.  The only issues are howH > > everyone will arrive at that point.  DEC could have been there also.L > > They would have had to carefully analyze what they could do, and not do,H > > and make sure they didn't blow money on things that would be losers.J > > Palmer took the easy way out.  Easy for him, rather rough for the rest
 > > of us. >  [snip]H > David I do not believe Compaq where it sits today has a viable overallM > business strategy.  History has shown in all industries that companies thathH > are either perceived as providing the best premium service or the bestF > commodity product are the ones that make the money (e.g. Daimler andL > Toyota).  That has been proven over and over again.  Compaq has put itselfK > in a situation where can't provide the best commodity product or the bestoN > premium service.  Companies that find themselves in that half way always runK > into trouble as the market matures.  (Note I said premium service and not  > just premium product)r > I > Also David I think you are reading flawed execution on Compaq's part as L > being what their true desire is.  Believe me working with Encompass I haveM > spent too much time with them for their execs to be putting on that good oftH > a snow job. Their comments are too repetitive and too pervasive.  TheyI > really don't want to get into the Dell business and they really do want C > their value add to be being able to build your IT infrastructure.m  C "flawed execution"? These people are suppossed to be professionals,t surely?nF Are they learning on the job? You don't get away with that in IT these days( for many orders of magnitude less cash.    -- e Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  i  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of c! my employers or service provider.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:55:23 GMT - From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111261952120.17277-100000@world.std.com>  $ On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   > Jeff Killeen wrote:dO > > I think Compaq would disagree with you about the profits they are making onoK > > the 8-way Proliants.  One needs to very careful about mixing the Access J > > Business Unit, with the uniProcessor Proliant business, with the N-WayF > > Proliant business.  But that is not important for this discussion. >iI > Compaq could start by separating VMS, TRu64, Tandem  and wintel serverseP > revenus and profits instead of bundling them into a single meaningless number.  J Yeah, that would be nice. REAL nice, especially because it would make life7 easier for anyone who tries to dig into Compaq numbers!m  P > The fact that they insist on doing this leads credence to the story that theirO > wintel servers do not make much profits and it is the real enterprise systems * > that subsidize Compaq's server business. >   I Dell seems to be able to make money on low-end servers but CPQ apparentlyeE cannot do so. I have reason to believe that the eight-way boxes carrynB pretty generous margins, but if you removed all the uni, dual, andG perhaps even four-way servers from the ISSG portfolio, CPQ's enterprisee+ business would look a hell of a lot better!r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:58:53 GMTy- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>dN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111261955550.17277-100000@world.std.com>   MIME-Version: 1.0e* Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII      ( On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Jeff Killeen wrote:  4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:f2940uscroe4lhdkkl1k9s2j0fste542j1@4ax.com...F > > Funny you should mention that. As Gartner are helpfully telling usI > > that the dropping of HP3000/MPE is a "sign of things to come" when HPdJ > > take over Compaq and  the Aberdeen group also handily pointed out thatJ > > they expect HP to "treat VMS no differently from MPE" how can you haveJ > > any confidence that HP will not terminate the VMS Itanium port as they# > > did with the MPE/.Itanium work?u >cF > One key difference - According to published reports the MPE has beenL > shinking by half every 3 years.  The other issue is Compaq had been makingI > commitments that would make it "legally interesting" for HP if they didp > this.s >   J Apropos to the above, Mark Gorham recently said that MPE competed with VMSI in only one VMS target market. If VMS and MPE were duking it out for theraD same customer base, the demise of VMS might be a plausible scenario.  G If VMS does get scuttled, Charles Bronson will be replaced by Carly andi) Mike in the upcoming movie, DEATH WISH V.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:03:22 GMTg- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111262002180.17277-100000@world.std.com>  ( On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Jeff Killeen wrote:   >o< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C025EF9.8282E401@videotron.ca... > > Jeff Killeen wrote:hI > > > shinking by half every 3 years.  The other issue is Compaq had beena > makingM > > > commitments that would make it "legally interesting" for HP if they dide > > > this.e > >aN > > If Compaq is able to kill Alpha, then surely is knows of a way to kill VMS# > > without breaking the contracts.  >1M > The issue is how many "Golden Blanket" commitments Compaq will have made byFM > the time HP is even in a position to make this decision.  These are special$G > commitments Compaq is promising related to conversion.  If I was RichwL > Marcello and Marc Gorman I would have a file cabinet full of those by next	 > fall...f  G Neither Mark nor Rich are what I would call stupid guys. There might beyG more to this "Golden Blanket" customer assurance program than meets theo eye!   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:14:07 GMTr- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0111262011060.17277-100000@world.std.com>  $ On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, JF Mezei wrote:   > John McLean wrote:I > > Compaq doesn't give a rat's about the VMS or Tru64 customers or theirx > > applications.s >oM > Yes they do. They care to keep them there until they can find a way to move N > them to NT without losing them. The revenus generated by VMS subsidize theirG > wintel crap business so they can't part with VMS revenus just as yet.  >l  I Then one might surmise that the Compaq strategists responsible for the NTlJ hegira own plenty of Dell stock. Once the VMS customer moves to a ProLiantH running Windoze, Dell is in a fine position to displace Compaq when it's time to upgrade that ProLiant.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:29:44 GMTh3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>.N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C02EBD2.ABA23412@cableinet.co.uk>t   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Jeff Killeen wrote:fL > > Mass advertising either product at this point would be a unwise businessP > > move.  To create brand identity through mass marketing for a sub-brand costs$ > > hundreds of millions of dollars. > N > easy to say. But consider that it is possible to advertise VMS for free whenN > there is the will do to so. Whenever Compaq announces its financial results,M > it could insert one or two lines about its VM'S product line, the profit itrO > generates , and last year, the fact that it had begun to grow again. And whenaM > Capellas goes to CNN to discuss the dinancial results, he could mention VMSBO > and ALPHA that are the years ahead of everyone in clustering and reliability.m  eG Its too late for that. For one thing Capellas has negative credibility..  G Now, a mainstream TV documentary or Sunday Supplement feature about the  wholetE reliability and securty in computing issues ... Might even be worth ai mentions of us comp.os.vms denizens.   G People out there who are not computer experts are also sick of fightings with) Windows, they just don't know any better.e   regards    --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:33:06 -0500t; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>oN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org$ Message-ID: <3c02ed58$1@news.si.com>  G >His slides from the 9/11/2001 sessions are on line at www.cets2001.comg  K It would be nice to see them, but the CETS2001 web site won't let me createiH an account, even though I enter everything required.  It just clears theE fields and displays them again empty.  No error messages or anything.t --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.commA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.come= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventl< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:36:31 GMT & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org7 Message-ID: <jeBM7.2212$zf.215408@typhoon2.gnilink.net>P  A At the risk of being setup - OK what is the "nine woman" mistake?s  3 "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in messagem news:9tulc0$9tq@web.nmti.com...3: > In article <ZbcM7.2433$3n6.167785@typhoon1.gnilink.net>,' > Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:sB > > Even if we accept Todd's contention that it will take two IA64
 processors tohJ > > equal one Alpha processor the cost won't be any higher because the R&D costse+ > > will be spread over a much larger base.k > F > Jeff, surely you're not really making the "nine women" mistake here? >a > --- >  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.eG >   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." ; >                                                        --  nicolai@esperi.org >          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 19:11:21 -0800/ From: Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com (Brannon Batson)nN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org= Message-ID: <4495ef1f.0111261911.6fb13529@posting.google.com>   x Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.SGI.4.30.0111251144071.5290-100000@world.std.com>...' > On Sun, 25 Nov 2001, Bill Todd wrote:B >  > [snip] > J > Same external face. Yeah, to the best of my knowledge. But note that EV7I > is the EV68 core with big L2 cache and the glueless SMP support via thel > IO7 chip.s  F I'm sure it was just a typo, but just to clear things up, the glueless& SMP support is not 'via' the IO7 chip.  F EV7 is the EV68 core with a big L2 cache + on-chip glueless MP supportF + on-chip memory controller + on-chip router.  One of the router ports; goes to the IO7 chip.  All this is public information, BTW.   ) > > > I know enough of Fenwick to know...g > > >e: > > > 1) He had the data and folks outside of Compaq don't > >iL > > But the Alpha engineering team certainly did, and without exception they5 > > have said that Compaq's assertions were bullshit.u > >p > K > Then either Fenwick is wrong or the Alpha engineering team is wrong. Thiss@ > might make for an interesting debate between the two factions.   I know which one I believe.a   > [snip] >rI > Alpha may well have had no difficulty attracting customers away from annK > exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Itanic, but note that said B > Alpha customers would be limited to VMS and Tru64 staterooms, or, > doule-bunks in the Linux steerage section.  B Or NSK, as previously planned.  So Alpha would have supported VMS,@ Tru64, NSK, and Linux--4 of the best OS's on Earth.  Is this not- enough flexibility for the enterprise market?n   > [snip]   Brannone not speaking for Intel   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:32:32 GMTi3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>sN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C02EC7A.82C37BC8@cableinet.co.uk>r   Jeff Killeen wrote:a  nN > Here is a simple test if you want to expand OVMS's market.  Write an ad thatL > would appeal the CEO of the company who knows little about computers.  AdsM > that appeal to fear only tend to work if the person first has that fear and:J > second believes that the fear can be mitigated.  Just saying your systemJ > will crash less won't appeal to someone who believes the systems stay upJ > enough now or that every computer is going to crash.  Ads that appeal toH > gaining advantage are most effective e.g. putting your business on theL > Internet will double your income.  A good example of the gaining advantageK > type ad is the IBM ad where buyers are in a mom and pop shop and the shoprJ > owners check their handheld and point out they "have 10,000 units in the > warehouse in New Jersey".l >   H Have you seen IBM's "Cheddar Cheese" ad or are they only showing that in theoE UK? How about the web designers are snowboarding one? Surely that one  went out
 in the US?  .6 I will summarize the "Cheddar Cheese" ad if requested.   regardsn  m   -- e Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of i! my employers or service provider.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:41:07 GMTn3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk>kN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C02EE7D.302E89DD@cableinet.co.uk>    Terry C Shannon wrote:  n > I > If VMS does get scuttled, Charles Bronson will be replaced by Carly andi+ > Mike in the upcoming movie, DEATH WISH V.n  ( nah, send the special forces after them,   -- w Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of m! my employers or service provider.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:06:27 GMTh& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org7 Message-ID: <DyCM7.2281$zf.218312@typhoon2.gnilink.net>    Which Browser are you using?  F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3c02ed58$1@news.si.com...I > >His slides from the 9/11/2001 sessions are on line at www.cets2001.com  >bF > It would be nice to see them, but the CETS2001 web site won't let me createJ > an account, even though I enter everything required.  It just clears theG > fields and displays them again empty.  No error messages or anything.i > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.combC > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:40:06 -0500u( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org* Message-ID: <3C030B16.60409@tsoft-inc.com>   Jeff Killeen wrote:t  7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee= > news:DRyM7.129497$dk.9871668@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...e > 3 >>"Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in messageT >>H >>>To create brand identity through mass marketing for a sub-brand costsK >>>hundreds of millions of dollars.  There is only mass advertising for the G >>>most part for the corporate brand these days.  IBM doesn't advertiset >>>AS/400's or z/390 systems.c >>>uJ >>Incorrect.  I've seen several times recently a television ad in which anH >>executive calls in security to investigate the disappearance of a room >> > full > K >>of servers only to be told that they have been consolidated into a single 0 >>multi-instance Linux (clearly a z-Series) box. >> > J > Bill I am afraid you don't understand what brand advertising is.  I haveN > seen that ad and it is a message ad and _not_ a sub-brand identity ad.  ThatL > ad was designed to implant in the viewers mind IBM has a solution that canN > replace a room full for servers with a single box running Linux - and not toL > implant the identity of z-Series sub brand.  It is very consist with theirJ > corporate branding program which is to get you to think IBM = Solutions.I > The target market for those ads (CEO's or CIO's) who would find producttG > messages noise that would obscure the message IBM = Solutions to youra > business problems.    I Yes, you are right, the ad is a message.  Incidently, as part of the ad, fI a rather nice piece of hardware was shown, if not promoted specifically. tH   What did we get from Compaq?  A bunch of butterflies and a truck load G of windoz junk.  Quite a big difference, and noticed by those decision a* makers who could recognize the difference.    K > I think this is very illustrative of the mistake people make thinking allxK > that Compaq needs to do is advertise OVMS.  Note these comments are beingtN > made in the context of OVMS expanding its market.  Compaq needs to create anL > identity with CIO's that it equals best in class enterprise solutions.  ItI > appears that Compaq is just about to achieve that goal with NSK and thepN > application that kicked it over the edge seems to be ZLE.  They could marketN > the NSK technology to the general business community until the cows came andL > they would achieve nothing except in a few specialized sectors.  When theyN > started marketing ZLE that was a business concept that CIO's and CEO's couldJ > understand.  They have had some big wins as result, all of which are notJ > public yet.  But is was the solution and not the technology that broughtC > Compaq into this new market for NSK.  Just advertising OVMS won't1M > significantly expand its market.  It will require some solution which showslF > OVMS is clearly better suited for that has perceived business value.    I Again, you just sound too much like a shill for the Compaq windoz crowd. uE   By not mentioning VMS, how many current VMS people who were on the  I fence decided that VMS was indeed toast, and they'd do well to move away   from VMS as fast as they can.p  G I've mentioned it before, and will again because it's so indicative of eG the problem.  I have a customer with a VMS based application.  Much of .I the office activity at this customer's site is indeed office automation, iC were windoz is rather helpful.  But they do have some serious, and  I financial, applications.  They will, without fail, tell you that the VMS  F based applications are the most robust and reliable applications that F they are running.  In the next breath they'll tell you that they will F not implement another application on VMS.  Why?  Two reasons.  Windoz G has satisfied a large part of their business quite well, and they cite nI all the worthless stories about people already knowing windows and there -E is such a shorter training effort required.  But dig a bit, and they lC admit that they are afraid that VMS has a limited life.  The first eA argument is bogus.  Training new employees is dependant upon the rH application, not the user interface.  The real reason they will not add A to the VMS based applications is the fear that VMS is going away.1  C Now, where did that fear come from.  DEC, and then Compaq.  That's hF where.  Even just mentioning VMS in advertising, without VMS specific D advertising, would reach the right ears, and many current VMS users G would re-think their beliefs about the future of VMS.  Compaq has done t/ the opposite, and cultivated the current fears.n  I Don't try to tell me that Compaq wants the VMS business, on VMS.  If you a0 do, I will bluntly call you a lier and an idiot.    L > It is very hard for individuals who find OVMS as valuable in and of itselfC > to understand that for expanding into markets its is applicationshH > (solutions) corporate managers are looking for. These managers need toL > believe that OVMS offers something unique that makes that application muchJ > better suited to be deployed on OVMS.  A pre-condition of that is either8 > Compaq or an ISV developing those killer applications. > N > Here is a simple test if you want to expand OVMS's market.  Write an ad thatL > would appeal the CEO of the company who knows little about computers.  AdsM > that appeal to fear only tend to work if the person first has that fear and J > second believes that the fear can be mitigated.  Just saying your systemJ > will crash less won't appeal to someone who believes the systems stay upJ > enough now or that every computer is going to crash.  Ads that appeal toH > gaining advantage are most effective e.g. putting your business on theL > Internet will double your income.  A good example of the gaining advantageK > type ad is the IBM ad where buyers are in a mom and pop shop and the shopeJ > owners check their handheld and point out they "have 10,000 units in the > warehouse in New Jersey".n > J > Whether one likes it or not CIO's and CEO's tend not to be swayed by theJ > fine points in the differences between OS technologies.  They tend to be5 > driven by applications they find highly valuable...,    F While I will agree with positive messages, I will point out that CEOs F are not who will make such decisions.  Any good CEOs will rely on the I advice of their IT experts.  The message to the IT experts for some time .H is that Compaq will not help VMS in any manner.  Gee, wonder where they > got that idea.  Also wonder what it would take to change that G understanding.  First, stop sending the 'wrong' message, and then send rD the 'right' message.  Wouldn't need to be much, for those who would  perfer to remain on VMS.  D Same for the ISVs.  They didn't desert VMS.  They feel that DEC and  Compaq have deserted them.     Dave     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:08:42 GMTu3 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk> N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org/ Message-ID: <3C031F23.8B7F211D@cableinet.co.uk>    Jeff Killeen wrote:  > C > At the risk of being setup - OK what is the "nine woman" mistake?   D presumably the assumption that having nine women will be better than	 just one.e     > 5 > "Peter da Silva" <peter@abbnm.com> wrote in message ! > news:9tulc0$9tq@web.nmti.com...i< > > In article <ZbcM7.2433$3n6.167785@typhoon1.gnilink.net>,) > > Jeff Killeen <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote:-D > > > Even if we accept Todd's contention that it will take two IA64 > processors toeL > > > equal one Alpha processor the cost won't be any higher because the R&D > costs4- > > > will be spread over a much larger base.c > >tH > > Jeff, surely you're not really making the "nine women" mistake here? > >r > > --/ > >  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. I > >   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything." = > >                                                        --e > nicolai@esperi.org > >          Disclaimer: WWFD?   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  m  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of s! my employers or service provider.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:30:15 GMT . From: "aaron spink" <aaronspink@earthlink.net>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.orgD Message-ID: <HxFM7.8245$WC1.976629@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message.$ news:3C01F412.60205@tsoft-inc.com...H > Take a look at what Compaq has done to the substantial funds DEC spentH > on R&D.  That alone will plainly show you that Compaq isn't interestedG > in being a technology leader.  All they want to do is assemble boxes. I > They want someone else to spend the R&D bucks.  They want to be another  > Dell.i >lL Yeah, I really feel for HP labs if the Compaq deal goes through and Shane isL the CTO as currently planned.  Look at what he has been able to do with WRL,K SRC, and CRL.  I mean, look at all the open office space...  HP Labs should  be scared, very scared.o   Aaron Spinku speaking only for myself   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Nov 2001 23:19 CST3' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)mN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org- Message-ID: <26NOV200123190199@gerg.tamu.edu>e  . "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes...2 }"Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message& }> I know enough of Fenwick to know... }>7 }> 1) He had the data and folks outside of Compaq don'ti } I }But the Alpha engineering team certainly did, and without exception theyd2 }have said that Compaq's assertions were bullshit.  = Not only that, but he also clearly didn't have all the data. p  > Half of the info involved is about the IPF. The information he@ had on this must have been what *Intel* told him, as I seriously; doubt that he was given unrestricted access to their actualu= detailed design information, status reports, etc. It is clearw= that Intel has been spewing huge quantities of misinformationk= about the IPF for a long time (like, say, when the processorsa@ would actually be available, what the clock speeds would be, and8 what the performance at any given clock speed would be).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:35:35 GMT > From: "Peter L. Montgomery" <Peter-Lawrence.Montgomery@cwi.nl>N Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org Message-ID: <GnG27B.84@cwi.nl>  7 In article <jeBM7.2212$zf.215408@typhoon2.gnilink.net>  ( "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> writes:B >At the risk of being setup - OK what is the "nine woman" mistake?  ;      Nine women create nine lives.  You need a battery withh, nine lives just to run the UNIX cat command.     --  7 George W. Bush tells Americans not to be afraid to fly.W! Americans are flying their flags.-H         Peter-Lawrence.Montgomery@cwi.nl    Home: San Rafael, California"         Microsoft Research and CWI   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2001 00:51:11 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)eN Subject: Re: Special IPF-Inside Issue of Shannon Knows Compaq at www.tru64.org3 Message-ID: <nrg2EQ3bTwL0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <26NOV200123190199@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:e0 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes...4 > }"Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@IDM-IO.com> wrote in message( > }> I know enough of Fenwick to know... > }>9 > }> 1) He had the data and folks outside of Compaq don'tu > } K > }But the Alpha engineering team certainly did, and without exception theyh4 > }have said that Compaq's assertions were bullshit. > ? > Not only that, but he also clearly didn't have all the data. t > @ > Half of the info involved is about the IPF. The information heB > had on this must have been what *Intel* told him, as I seriously= > doubt that he was given unrestricted access to their actuald? > detailed design information, status reports, etc. It is clearo? > that Intel has been spewing huge quantities of misinformationh? > about the IPF for a long time (like, say, when the processorseB > would actually be available, what the clock speeds would be, and: > what the performance at any given clock speed would be). >    	Misinformation?  So what!  D 	Maybe they only hit 15 GHz in a few years instead of 20.  But IntelG 	is openly talking about 20 GHz in their Terahertz project... Terahertz  	by decade end.   F 	What might have taken place was serious NDA with process technologies? 	, nevermind other things.  Take any CPU out there and pump GHzO: 	at it , hang fast caches off it and you have a contender.  > 	Maybe being 5 GHz behind in 3 years may have been part of the" 	reasons behind ditching of Alpha.  F 	And yes, I still am a big Alpha fan.  But the thing has been whacked.  D 	It may have been a simple case as Terry has mentioned before... but- 	another look at this simple case is like so:2  . 		Compaq spends their millions on CPU research7 		and all that entails and Intel spends their billions.m   				Robt   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:25:50 +0000c4 From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@baesystems.com>+ Subject: Re: Trying to summarise the issuese. Message-ID: <3C02A54E.2F675596@baesystems.com>   John McLean wrote: > I > Let me try to pull the various comments about Compaq and their handling F > of VMS into a cohesive summary and see what general agreement we can > reach. > I > 1. Compaq has a fixation on PCs and they stubbornly refuse to exit thisl > market9 > - despite slender profit margins in the current economye9 > - despite sharing income with a third party (Microsoft)dG > - despite PCs having an annual Return-on-Investment in the low single  > digits (or less)5 > - despite miniscule income over the period 1998-200dA > - despite almost a loss of almost $1/2 billion so far this year D > - despite selling a product which is almost indistinguishable from > cheaper clones > ? > 2. Compaq ignore the most profitable sector of their business I > - despite profit margin on any sale being substantially better than PCsiA > - despite the income "momentum" of annual support and licensingr > contracts-F > - despite a far better annual Return-on-investment than PCs (up to 8 > times better)lC > - despite the superior security of these machines (and commercialS > consumers demanding this)uI > - despite the flexibility, reliability, availability and scalability of J > these systems (and commercial consumers demanding these characteristics) >  > - > 3. On the termination of Alpha we have seenHJ > - that "unofficial statements" from current and ex- employees contradict > "official" statementsdB > - that Compaq's attempted justification of "business reasons" isI > specious because the cost of the processor is a mere few % of the total, > cost of the machineMC > - that Compaq's attempted justification of "technical reasons" isIH > tenuous because it assumes certain a processor of certain capabilitiesJ > and performance will be available (and on schedule) more than 2 years in' > the future when many reports say thath > this is doubtfulH > - that Compaq's assertion that ISVs will find Intel/VMS and attractiveA > platform is spurious because the underlying processor is not ane= > important factor; the operating system itself is the issue.c > 0 > 4. On the proposed merger with HP we have seen > E > - Compaq justifying the merger on its poor income despite this poor  > incomeC > being due to Compaq's fixation with PCs (which does not look likes > changing)t@ > - the strong likelihood of Tru64 Unix disappearing despite the > reassurancesH > made at the time of the announced termination of Alpha that there will > be a > port to InteltH > - that statement from Compaq that the termination of Alpha was decided > longJ > before any merger with HP is probably false given that this decision was > made* > while discussions with HP were on-going. > F > Anything I've missed ???  (Please summarise as BRIEFLY as possible). >   9 Compaq gave up ARM, the one chip set that could take the B1 Personal Computer market away from the Intel X86.e; ARM is already the Industry Standard mobile phone computer..7 ARM and possibly StrongARM are doing well in Palm Tops.g. ARM is used in a lot of 32 bit games machines.>    Palm Top + games = business + home computing customer base.6 Logical next move would be into lap tops.  (Bill Gates8 has already produced most of the software but own brands< can be better.)  Sales slogan - runs all day on an overnight	 recharge.e Bring out a desk top version. = Bring out a fast desk top version - only runs from the mains.e  4 Port VMS to "SuperARM", contains 128 ARM processors.  H > I'm trying to think who might be interested in a summary like that, so5 > your suggestions on this would also be appreciated.a > 
 > John McLeanu     --  7 _______________________________________________________ + Andrew Swallow (7605) 2225   Cowes site, UKy andrew.swallow@baesystems.como   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Nov 2001 14:00:28 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)o* Subject: Re: vms developers: beware of PSP. Message-ID: <KSrC9OvZXj2e@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  c In article <GyIr6cpWKPA8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Cp > In article <LirtynJShnxs@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell) writes: >> iP >> Those who develop software for vms (and customers as well) should beware of aP >> package called PSP or some variation thereof.  I don't know what this packageJ >> is or what it's supposed to do, but it apparently redefines various VMSR >> commands.  A customer site got the following failure while bringing up tapesys: >> oA >> $ 		checksum _$1$DIA100:[TAPESYS_5R2.system.SIMON]real_rmu.exer8 >> PSP$-E-SYSTEM, Unexpected error: 8740 in CHECK_RIGHTS/ >> %SYSTEM-F-IVIDENT, invalid identifier formatm >>   >> e5 >> As you can see, this is a simple checksum command.t > > > But there is no documented command called "CHECKSUM" in VMS. > G > Obviously TAPESYS does not restrict itself to documented commands :-)o     Point taken.  M While undocumented, it *is* used by existing software, including parts of VMSTI itself.  For instance, a search of sys$sysdevice:[sys0.sysc*...]*.com fort "checksum" finds:d   ******************************4 SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL.COM;1   $checksum vmi$txtw- $if checksum$checksum .ne. 'p6 then goto st90d $checksum vmi$kwd:'m.vmiA $if checksum$checksum .ne. 'p6 then delete/nolog vmi$kwd:'m.vmi;*B- $if checksum$checksum .ne. 'p6 then goto st90hG $st90: if p7 .nes. "" then if checksum$checksum .ne. 'p7 then goto st92       D I imagine that PSP customers are wondering why some of their productN installations are behaving irratically.  It would be comical if this caused an later upgrade of *PSP* to fail.      There were alsos some hits innG SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYS$STARTUP]VMS$LPBEGIN-050_STARTUP.COM;1r    < They appear to have something to do with decwindows startup.    K Okay, so these guys looked at the DCL dictionary, didn't find checksum, and L decided it was fair game.  I still think that using it indicates lack of vmsA knowledge.  The checksum command has been around for a long time.t   -- tO ===============================================================================hM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxi: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== H Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy.". Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Nov 2001 20:34:50 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell)h* Subject: Re: vms developers: beware of PSP. Message-ID: <Ze8kmlohMSrM@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  n In article <KSrC9OvZXj2e@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell) writes:F > I imagine that PSP customers are wondering why some of their productP > installations are behaving irratically.  It would be comical if this caused an! > later upgrade of *PSP* to fail.t >   E I meant erratically, of course.  I guess my spelling is erratic, too.    -- rO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxq: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)iO ===============================================================================kH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy.". Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2001 11:13:11 -0800% From: rosj01@hotmail.com (James Ross)i Subject: vms dumpr= Message-ID: <9026b6ac.0111261113.119e3ac0@posting.google.com>   H I have question concerning dump,  I will explain the question through an example.    E We run an instance PLI program "A" to generate binary file "out;1" inh folderH "X".  We then run PLI program "A"  again to generate binary file "out;2" in the same folder "X".E then we move file "out;1" in folder "Y".  Next we dump the content ofeB "out;1" in folder "Y" and "out;2" in folder "X" with the following	 commands:u  % 	dump /hex/byte out;1 /out=out1.dump;o% 	dump /hex/byte out;2 /out=out2.dump;e  , Then a we diff the two dump files as follow: 	 ! 	diff [.Y]out1.dump [.X]out2.dump   E The generated output indicates that the "dumps" are identical for allo but G the last block.  It appears that "out2.dump" (the dump generated by the" fileC that was not moved) contains more data than "out1.dump" in the lasti blockoG despite the fact that both "out;1" and "out;2" are "identical" files.  d   My questions are:  e@ 	is that behavior caused by the PLI program not "filling" in the? unused portion of the last block as opposed to the move command, "filling" in that unused portion?    A 	is there a way to used the dump command on both files to get thee same ouput.e  " I hope that it's understandable...  2 Any feedback or explanations would be appreciated.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:29:48 +0100h= From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <noone@dummy.com>s Subject: Re: vms dumph) Message-ID: <3C02982C.9A4D6DBA@dummy.com>h  = Does it make any difference if you "move" the file out;1 fromI? directory X to directory Y using COPY or BACKUP ? Does "moving"v8 the file change the "DIR/FULL" output ? Can you post the> dump from the last block (that is different) from both files ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.      James Ross wrote:  > J > I have question concerning dump,  I will explain the question through an
 > example. [snip, snip, snip...]- >-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:06:22 GMTm+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>e Subject: Re: vms dumpf= Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0111261303280.22835-100000@jaipur>B  J Try adding the "/record" qualfier to the DUMP command.  This will give youI the actual data in the records instead of the raw on-disk data.  I assumehI you are using RMS to read and write the data (which you probably are eveni if you don't know it).  ! On 26 Nov 2001, James Ross wrote:e  J > I have question concerning dump,  I will explain the question through an
 > example. >n >eG > We run an instance PLI program "A" to generate binary file "out;1" in  > folderJ > "X".  We then run PLI program "A"  again to generate binary file "out;2" > in > the same folder "X".G > then we move file "out;1" in folder "Y".  Next we dump the content of D > "out;1" in folder "Y" and "out;2" in folder "X" with the following > commands:` >'' > 	dump /hex/byte out;1 /out=out1.dump; ' > 	dump /hex/byte out;2 /out=out2.dump;  >e. > Then a we diff the two dump files as follow: > # > 	diff [.Y]out1.dump [.X]out2.dumpe > G > The generated output indicates that the "dumps" are identical for all@ > buteI > the last block.  It appears that "out2.dump" (the dump generated by thes > fileE > that was not moved) contains more data than "out1.dump" in the last  > block,G > despite the fact that both "out;1" and "out;2" are "identical" files.> >u > My questions are:FB > 	is that behavior caused by the PLI program not "filling" in theA > unused portion of the last block as opposed to the move commandF > "filling" in > that unused portion? >gC > 	is there a way to used the dump command on both files to get theq
 > same ouput.e >b$ > I hope that it's understandable... > 4 > Any feedback or explanations would be appreciated. >  > Thank you. >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:30:49 GMTn1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>t Subject: Re: vms dumph2 Message-ID: <3C02B4C6.F8DF7BDB@clarityconnect.com>  G I believe if you look at the DIR/FULL of the files and look at the lasteH block you will see that the differences are in the area of the file thatB is allocated but not yet used.  In this area the file will containA whatever happens to have been on the disk when the file space waseD allocated.  During the COPY you only write out to the last used byte (give or take 1).I   Ryan Moore wrote:a > L > Try adding the "/record" qualfier to the DUMP command.  This will give youK > the actual data in the records instead of the raw on-disk data.  I assume-K > you are using RMS to read and write the data (which you probably are evene > if you don't know it). > # > On 26 Nov 2001, James Ross wrote:a > L > > I have question concerning dump,  I will explain the question through an > > example. > >e > >sI > > We run an instance PLI program "A" to generate binary file "out;1" ina
 > > folderL > > "X".  We then run PLI program "A"  again to generate binary file "out;2" > > in > > the same folder "X".I > > then we move file "out;1" in folder "Y".  Next we dump the content ofdF > > "out;1" in folder "Y" and "out;2" in folder "X" with the following
 > > commands:q > >t. > >       dump /hex/byte out;1 /out=out1.dump;. > >       dump /hex/byte out;2 /out=out2.dump; > >y0 > > Then a we diff the two dump files as follow: > >t* > >       diff [.Y]out1.dump [.X]out2.dump > >eI > > The generated output indicates that the "dumps" are identical for all0 > > butMK > > the last block.  It appears that "out2.dump" (the dump generated by theR > > fileG > > that was not moved) contains more data than "out1.dump" in the lastG	 > > blockiI > > despite the fact that both "out;1" and "out;2" are "identical" files.l > >< > > My questions are::I > >       is that behavior caused by the PLI program not "filling" in the C > > unused portion of the last block as opposed to the move commandj > > "filling" in > > that unused portion? > >eJ > >       is there a way to used the dump command on both files to get the > > same ouput.  > >e& > > I hope that it's understandable... > >a6 > > Any feedback or explanations would be appreciated. > >- > > Thank you. > >-   -- eD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:51:45 GMTi) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)c4 Subject: XML Test Problems & Java Performance Query.2 Message-ID: <3c02e06c.1548463452@news.wcc.govt.nz>   Hi All,    Java SDK 1.3.0-2
 OpenVMS 7.2-1k UnZip 5.42 C  3 All recent Patches including those spec'd for Java.e   XML Sample Test ProblemcE On our test box I've installed Java and copied down the XML files for  XML Testing.F Unpacked the .JAR Files into the Test directories. There's a couple ofC failures with Bad Filename during the UnZip. (Used the "-V" option)h  A On closer inspection I see these filenames are 41 Characters longi (extension is another 5 chars)4 Docs. say the limit is 39 Characters for a filename.  " One of he filenames of concern is:  0 XMLDOCUMENTSCANNER$TRAILINGMISCDISPATCHER.CLASS;   Is there any way round this?0 Anyone got the XML to HTML Convert test to work?  B Tried manually renaming the file after extracting it from the .JAR% file on another platform - but no go.    Java Performance.?F Also, I saw recent postings as regards the performance (or lack of) ofD Java 1.3.0. I see similar extensive hard faulting. Did anyone get an actual resolution?  
 As always,  
 Many TIAs.   Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:25:47 -0000g- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)t$ Subject: Re: You are invited to this7 Message-ID: <916593E3Dwarrenspencer1977@207.126.101.97>y  I susan.skonetski@compaq.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in <rSxK7.1770$RL6.58594l @news.cpqcorp.net>:    >t >tK >Attunity and Compaq are pleased to invite you to participate in a live webnJ >seminar, e-Business Integration for OpenVMS, scheduled for December 13 at >2:00pm. > I >More information and registration see http://www.attunity.com/mail.html.l >s >   L Broken, I think.  On Monday, at 2:25 PM EST, clicking on the "Click Here To L Register for Free!" link gives this error:  Cannot find server or DNS Error 
 (from IE).  E Might be wise to re-post the above solicitation when the web site is M working.   ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)h The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:43:01 +0000 (UTC)e From: <myemail@any.where.com> ( Subject: 䭺 Music Video Qת. Message-ID: <9tv5kl$25k$1779@news.net-yan.com>   䭺 Music Video QתI  / http://forum.hkhost.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=75    UaΥ~a Music Video, , uݱNn񪺺qmKWYiA{䴩 ASF/MPG/MPEG ...wo... Шϥ [mtv]}[/mtv] J MTV vm   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.659 ************************